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It kinda pisses me off that a couple years ago as a starving college student I donated money to the Mozilla Foundation. If I knew their CEO would one day be raking in that kind of cash I would have donated to a more worthy cause. Not that there aren't other non-profit directors raking it in (I'm looking at you, Red Cross).

In Canada we have this organization called Better Business Bureau. I think you have it in US as well. I'm not sure how great they are helping consumers, but I've worked in a place where we received a letter from them stating complaints from a customer. Eventually the manager had to refund the money and play nice with the customer. He seemed pretty scared and annoyed when he initially received the letter. They mediated every reply from him and the customer passing them along.

I know in Canada, I can get the BBB or CRTC to investigate a shady business... but AFAIK they don't do anything without a complaint.

It's your country and your ISP; get things started!
FTC complain form
FCC complaint form
BBB complaint form

Looks to me to be fast, easy, and free. Step up!

Exactly, I'm pretty sure bending the iPhone (or any gadget for that matter) would void the warranty. Then again no warranty can limit the reasonable life-expectancy of something. Check out the better business bureau for a better idea of what actually voids warranties (most of the time the company is just spouting BS because they don't want to pay for a replacement/repair even though they should; it is either fraud or they just don't want to get on the bad side of the BBB). I think the BBB says the warranty for most consumer electronics is 3 years or so, so don't be afraid to say no to that extended warranty, nothing gets you customer service like opening a claim with the BBB for binding arbitration. My roomate had his mp3 player replaced after 2.5 years even though the warranty expired after 1 after I suggested he check out the BBB.

Wow I started off with a joke and then made a decent comment. . I must need some sleep.

There is http://www.bbb.org/

Your approach is interesting, but it can backfire.

... how thoroughly flawed the video game rating system is, as the ESRB is actually paid for and operated, in effect, by the video game industry itself. This is a classic case of the fox guarding the chickens. Congressman Stearns has now introduced to Congress a Bill called the "Truth in Video Game Ratings Act" largely because of the illicit collaboration between the ESRB and Take-Two.

I guess Jack had better go after the Better Business Bureau next. After all, they're funded by the businesses who make up its membership. I think we need a "Truth in Business Ratings Act" to help counter this illicit collaboration between the BBB and its members.

Just go to the Better Business Bureau and lodge a complaint. That worked for me in getting Hydro Ottawa to behave and remove all late payment fees on my accounts after I had stopped paying my bills until the dispute was resolved. From the time of launching the complaint it took about a month for the matter to be resolved. No serious company wants to see unresolved complaints on their BBB records.

You can find them online at http://lookup.bbb.org/

Good luck resolving this situation amicably.

Both representatives hung up on me, thinking I was trying to con them or something. Any advice to what this could be?

1. Contact whatever local government entity it is that might handle problems like this. You might be surprised to discover that sometimes even small towns have an ombudsman or such for this.
   
2. Contact your local Better Business Bureau. Verizon will notice when they show up in the Top-10-Complaints-For-Our-Area news stories on slow days.
   
3. Contact your State Public Utilities Commission (or equivalent). Verizon is a monopoly, enjoys all sorts of privileges, make them treat their customers with some respect.
   
4. Contact your State Department of Consumer Affairs (or equivalent). Verizon is selling you are service which they are no longer delivering, get some state employee with a direct number to Verizon's complaints office on the case.
   
5. Kick 'em to the curb. Who do you hate less? Your phone company, your cable company, or some other sort of ISP? Grit your teeth and see if the grass really is greener on the other side.
   
6. Get your own domain with your own mail servers and your own filters and not be dependent on any unresponsive monopoly. No more lock-in to them, no more stealth filtering, no inane challenge/response systems, unless you activate them.
   
7. And finally, start calling "real people" at Verizon. Put your detective skills to work and post the direct numbers for the these folks. Trust me, they'll toast the ass of whomever has made this mess when their collective secretaries start fielding calls about it!

1. First, Parago acknowledged that the company had received the correct rebate information. At this point, everything is fine.
2. After 23 days, on March 25, Parago said in an online notice that the check had been sent and had been cashed. It was not sent. Mr. Kamens had asked that the money be directly deposited electronically to his checking account, so a notice about a check was complete fiction. Obviously no one checked to see if their excuse was plausible.
3. Next, Mr. Kamen received a message saying that he had asked to receive a "bonus item" and a "Pinnacle Instant Album" instead of $10, and that these had already been shipped on March 16. The web page customers can use to check the status of their rebates still said that he had received and cashed a check. Again, Parago did not check to see if their statements were plausible.

Hmmm, how much does it cost to get a Better Business Bureau seal?

The Better Business Bureau is really a scam. It is funded by the companies that are a member of it.

It's simply a marketing tool. "Better Business" sounds great, and anyone who is a member must be good .... right?

Instead of going to Small Claims Court or filing a complaint with the FTC, Attorney General or something that could actually have teeth, you are basically encouraged to complain to a non-binding entity that works for the company you are complaining about.

They figure that if you go so far as to file a complaint, then maybe it will be a good idea to settle the claim. Then, the "Bureau" reports the event as "satisfactorily resolved", when all they really did was resolve an issue which they should have resolved in he first place. So, they get good publicity out of screwing you ... after all, they eventually "resolved" your issue. Therefore, they must be great guys. Right?

Never mind that it costs you a bunch of time and inconvenience and they know they should have resolved the issue on the spot. It is much easier to screw you and hope you do nothing, but go ahead and make it right for the 1% of people who will take it as far as complaining to the BBB.

This gives them a spotless "BBB Rating", even though they may be the most customer unfriendly business on the planet. They have a biased judge mediating your complaint. Yippie.

The BBB is not accountable to the consumers and the numbers are not audited in any way. I'm quite sure you can pay to drop unresolved complaints. This is why many BBB complaints are ignored or not resolved. I doubt they pay the big claims. They just dispute it with the BBB and it stays "pending" forever. Or maybe they pay a few bucks to have the issue dropped from the ledger.

I wouldn't be shocked if they also sold your information to marketing firms.

The most intelligent thing for the American public to do would be to STOP filing anything with the BBB, declare it an irrelevant marketing scheme. If people stop using it, the marketers will have to come up with another scheme, or maybe just start treating the customers better.

The BBB works for the companies, not the consumer, and it just encourages companies to continue acting irresponsibly.

Too many people get the BBB confused with some kind of government entity working for the consumer. It's not.

It's a marketing tool. They even offer a referral service. You can go here to get a quote from "member" businesses who pay them for the referrals:

http://www.dallas.bbb.org/equote.html

Here is Parago's Better Business Bureau information: Parago BBB info.

This is true, but investigating a moving company is relatively straight-forward. Your first stop should be the Better Business Bureau. Go to http://www.bbb.org/ and search for your local Bureau, then you can go to that site and search for the company to see if they have any complaints against them, how quickly it was resolved, etc.

The last time I moved, this helped me to avoid a company that, while offering the best price, had a bad rating due to a bunch of unresolved complaints.

Apparently, two states sued Best Buy on the grounds of false advertizing. I present a quote from the BBC:

In May 2005, the Attorney General of Wisconsin filed a lawsuit against Best Buy Company. The lawsuit alleges that Best Buy engaged in a pattern of unfair and deceptive acts and practices including: Representations related to promised rebates, extended service plans, supplement magazine subscriptions, the return and exchange policies and restocking fees, gift cards and "Reward Zone Points". The matter is currently pending. Consumers can read the formal complaint at: www.doj.state.wi.us

Consider checking out the BBC before you consider purchases, and be sure the file a complaint if you get screwed.

Apparently, two states sued Best Buy on the grounds of false advertizing. I present a quote from the BBC:

In May 2005, the Attorney General of Wisconsin filed a lawsuit against Best Buy Company. The lawsuit alleges that Best Buy engaged in a pattern of unfair and deceptive acts and practices including: Representations related to promised rebates, extended service plans, supplement magazine subscriptions, the return and exchange policies and restocking fees, gift cards and "Reward Zone Points". The matter is currently pending. Consumers can read the formal complaint at: www.doj.state.wi.us

Consider checking out the BBC before you consider purchases, and be sure the file a complaint if you get screwed.

I recently did a lot of research before dropping a lot of money on a new digital SLR and ended up going with 17th Street Photo who had a very high rating and they too were very professional and shipped my order quickly. It's always good to check http://www.resellerratings.com before you buy. Another place someone at work recommended had a very bad rating and must have been one of the only positive ratings they ever had.

Another place to check is the Better Business Bureau.

As always, skepticism is healthy. If a deal seems impossibly good, that's when the alarms should go off in your head.

They sound like they DO suck. But that BBB link is maybe wrong?

Another business-relationship was when we'd call everyone within 20-25 miles of our recent customer. The sales pitch went like:
Hello, this is X calling from Y. Your neighbor, Z, living at Z has recently purchased our product and since we're in the area, we're offering special discounts....
We'd use their address and names to get their neighbors to start listening to us.

When we got somebody that was obnoxious, or just didnt like that we disturbed them, we'd often set them up to be called back in the next few hours. Asking for a supervisor most often yields a hang-up as well. What we were supposed to do is fill out a form stating that the customer didnt want to be called back but since it takes a second to press the 'next' button and a lot longer to fill out a form, virtually nobody was taken off.

Actually, even then I dont think it was possible to permanently remove yourself from our list - even with the form you'd get maybe a few months of respite but after a while, all these forms were just added back to our database. Although this was before the DNR, I cant imagine anything's changed.

If I'm in a bargain hunting mood, I check out any companies I find on pricewatch via the Better Business Bureau. Usually, though, I just end up buying through newegg.com.

HP only had 50 refund issues last year. That's frickin' pathetic guys. I know more than 50 of you bought an HP last year. You can file a complaint online. It won't take much of your time and if the PC manufacturers are going to rip you off for $85 every time you get a new machine, you should at least make them earn it. They'll have to hire new help to deal with the complaints. Paying an extra $85 is like paying sales tax a second time. It's probably greater than the hardware manufacturers' profit margin on cheaper machines. If PC manufacturers start getting tens of thousands of complaints they might just go to bat for you. HP only received 1500 some odd complaints last year regarding ALL issues. Make those 50 refund complaints explode out to 5000+. That should get their attention. If Americans aren't getting Linux machines, it is because Americans aren't demanding them.

• My wife ordered a cookbook from Southern Living under one of those subscription schemes, then exercised her option to cancel after she had received the free book they offered her. Books kept coming in the mail, she kept sending them back, and they were dunning us for one of the ones that eveidently was lost in the mail. I wasn't able to get them off our case until I got the Better Business Bureau involved.
• One year in September, the national umbrella organization for Jewish men's groups sent me a box of Rosh Hashanah cards, and then began sending me bills. They eventually stopped after I wrote and explained that what they had done was both unethical and illegal.
• Daughter, 7-8 years old at the time, finds a neat craft kit in the Scholastic Magazine flyer that she can afford on her allowance. She orders it. It turns out that it's a starter kit for a monthly "subscription", and they expected someone to be responsible for and pay for the merchandise even though the order was accepted without soliciting parents' approval. That one took a couple of letters and phone calls.

or not taking the security concerns seriously. If you are saving peoples Social Security Numbers and CC Numbers then you should be encrypting that data. Venture to guess how many places actually encrypt that in a database?

But then again i would say most larger places do take these steps. More often than not I won't buy from somewhere I am unsure of or if they are not in the http://www.bbb.org/. Plus, how many people know how to always use SSL when sending sensitive stuff? I would venture my grandparents and mother have no idea.

On a side not to the last statement, i would like to say, office depot does NOT use SSL for their secure communications when you order something from in store.

I have found the BBB to be extremely useful. One thing to keep in mind is that they are local organizations & some are as bad as you claim, but many are much better. Warrantech and MicroCenter are both members. Warrantech actually seems to resolve complaints brought against them. While making a claim with the BBB shouldn't be the only action made, there's little reason not to.

I will say that the grandparent's suggestion to make this a threat is far too conservative. Poster has already been screwed around with & he should just complain now.

Finally, the advice to contact the legal department is very risky. Sometimes it works & works well. Many times, the legal department gets quite upset that you contacted them directly & quickly discover that you know absolutely nothing about law. I have seen people give up or end up getting nowhere after calling the legal dept. & being told about some legalese that invalidated the contract. In one case, a person was even told that complaining to the people he complained to invalidated the agreement. In short, lawyers are smart & can be shadier than others in the comapany.

I don't want to discourage people from contacting legal departments when that is what is needed--I have seen it work. But I have seen the BBB/FTC/attorney general/planetfeedback work much easier, quicker, and more consistently.

Sounds like the Better Business Bureau is the US version of Trading Standards. I know a few people who have had issues with different types of businesses. When they contacted the Better Business Bureau, the businesses suddenly became very cooperative.

I'd threaten submitting a claim to the Better Business Bureau
http://www.bbb.org/

It's called the Better Business Bureau.

The only problem I forsee is that we don't think about them until we have to file a report against the retailers.

On the contrary, we have this thing called the Better Business Bureau that is exactly for this purpose here in the US.

Does anyone know who I can reach high up to complain and possibly get my situation worked out more favorably?

Consult with your local Better Business Bureau. They will contact the company on your behalf. It can take several months, but they can get people to come out the woodwork that will practically beg to fix the problem.

An advertiser should not use nor permit the use of the following bait scheme practices: refusing to show or demonstrate the advertised merchandise or service;

• disparaging the advertised merchandise or service, its warranty, availability, services and parts, credit terms, etc.;
• selling the advertised merchandise or service and thereafter "unselling" the customer to make a switch to other merchandise or service; refusing to take orders for the advertised merchandise or service or to deliver it within a reasonable time; demonstrating or showing a defective sample of the advertised merchandise; or, having a sales compensation plan designed to penalize salespersons who sell the advertised merchandise or service.

Other advertising practices, such as the use of loss leaders ... do not constitute a bait and switch as long as it is possible to purchase the original item.

So while the lemon laws might not fit, I'd suspect some sort of action could be run through the Better Business Bureau. What exactly you'd try to nail them with is up to you. I'm more of an idea man.

Sounds like a GREAT idea, but you didn't provide a link. Googling found BBB Informal Dispute Settlement (IDS) and BBB OnLine Complaint System .

I know very little about this; please post other information about interacting with the BBB if you have it.

Sounds like a GREAT idea, but you didn't provide a link. Googling found BBB Informal Dispute Settlement (IDS) and BBB OnLine Complaint System .

I know very little about this; please post other information about interacting with the BBB if you have it.

emusic.com keeps track of every song you've ever downloaded and allows you to redownload them as many times as you want for free.

Step 1: Cut up the card and throw it away.
Step 2: Call the credit card company and cancel the account with them, and be sure to inform them of what happened. File a complaint with them, and with luck they'll track down who slammed you and get back their money. Be sure to say something like "because this was done to me, I'm never going to get a credit card from you out of principle."
Step 3: Contact the Better Business Bureau and file a complaint. All of those complaints get followed up on, and even if nothing happens, you've created a paper trail that might, someday, help someone else take them out.
Step 4: Join the rest of us in sitting back and enjoying the spam until our gov't makes it all illegal, because there's about squat you can do to stop it.

Well, I've read a lot of posts that say this should/is illegal. Fine, let's go for it - everyone needs to contact the Better Business Bureau and their local congressmen/women (here is contact info for Oregon; Washington, etc. - use your brain, you'll figure it out), and get some movement on this. Don't just sit there and make angry comments! Do it...

For $10/mo I just signed up for an RIAA-free emusic account

Um, no. Vivendi Universal, owner of emusic, also owns Universal Records, an RIAA member. In fact, the first label I recognized on that RIAA membership roster, 4AD, also appears on emusic. For that matter, the label for the box set you mention downloading is also an RIAA member. You may not be landing as much cash in their pockets, but it's not "RIAA-free" by any means.

To add my own rant, I should mention that emusic is the only company that has ever flatly stolen my money. (Partial details here if you're interested.) As much as I liked the service for 3 days, I'd say you should be wary of these guys. The Better Business Bureau record on emusic pretty well supports this point, but (to my mind) it doesn't really emphasize the point enough.

PHONY INVOICE SCAMS

The anatomy of a typical phony invoice scheme is as follows:

The Call:

While there is no set formula for these invoice schemes, most involve the use of an initial telephone contact. The call helps the swindler obtain the names of key business contacts, as well as some important details about the operation of the business and its products or services. The persons making these calls are, for the most part, remarkably smooth operators. Often brazen and forward in their approach, they have been known to talk their way through a chain of receptionists, secretaries, assistant managers, supervisors, and vice presidents to gain access to heads of companies. In most cases, however, they need gain access to only lower-level employees.

The Invoice:

The con artist's next contact with the intended victim usually comes in the form of a phony invoice sent through the mail. The invoice, which includes names, figures, and other details that add to the appearance of legitimacy, may be paid unwittingly along with a number of other routine bills. In many cases, the amount of the invoice is just small enough to slip by the check writer's attention. The swindler has had considerable experience calculating the most effective dollar amount, depending on variables such as the size of the firm, and the control it seems to have over its management system. Thousands of mass-mailed invoices, each for a small sum, may prove more luc-rative for the con artist, than several large invoices.

The Scare Tactic:

Scare tactics sometimes are used to increase the odds of success. A phony invoice, or past-due notice, stamped "Pay This Bill Now" or "We Are About to Start Action" may intimidate the victim into rushing to make out a check without carefully investigating the supposedly delinquent charge.

SOLICITATIONS AS INVOICES

One of the most common variations of the phony invoice scheme are solicitations disguised as invoices. These documents, which are actually solicitations for the purchase of goods or services, are carefully designed to look like legitimate invoices for goods or services ordered and received. In some cases, the small print may identify the bogus bill as a solicitation. The deceptive solicitation may be received through the mail, or it may be presented in person by a con artist who visits a business office on the pretext of saving the company handling charges.

The business that pays a solicitation disguised as an invoice may receive the merchandise or service it was duped into ordering; more often, it will not, and efforts to trace the fraudulent firm that issued the "invoice" will prove futile.

They should write a letter to the Delaware Attorny General (according to the SEC web page Dell is incorporated in Delaware) and the Better Business Bureau.

Guess what? It's unsatisfactory. Nice reasons, too:

• failure to resolve complaints
• failure to address cause of complaints
• billing disputes
• failure to provide timely refunds
• failure to provide promised services
• lying on their website by stating they are members of the Better Business Bureau and participants in the BBB On-Line Reliability Program

Maybe some of us should try complaining to someone who actually looksinto bad business practices?
http://complaints.bbb.org/Welcome.asp
I am going to file a complaint.
They do take these things seriously, and I firmly beleive that these announcements amount to nothing more than misleading business practices.

• Misleading Advertising
• Improper Selling Practices
• Non-delivery of Goods or Services
• Misrepresentation
• Unhonored Guarantees or Waranty
• Unsatisfactory Service
• Credit/billing Problems
• Unfulfilled Contracts

The BBB can handle the following complaints involving marketplace activities:
Misleading Advertising.
Improper Selling Practices.
Non-delivery of Goods or Services.
Misrepresentation.
Unhonored Guarantees or Warranty.
Unsatisfactory Service.
Credit/billing Problems.
Unfulfilled Contracts.

BBB has anyone filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau since they are a member... if they get enough complaints they can kick the company out.. and that hurts their bottom line..

This is a good thing. I refuse to buy stuff on Ebay cause I've gotten screwed twice. If I get screwed at WalMart(c), I can goto the store manager. If I get Screwed at "Mom and Pop's Local 5&Dime and Cow Manure Emporium", I can contact the Better Business Bureau or my local law enforcement officials. But when I get screwed on Ebay, I'm screwed.

Ebay ignores everything except the most extreme of cases, at worst cancelling the seller's account and leaving the fleeced buyer up a creek without a paddle. This allows for some culpability on the sellers part. When I go into a store, I can see the business license on the wall (ask, they are required to post it for all potential customers to see, even if that is often in the management offices) and know who is ultimately responsible.

Now, I admit, I would PREFER to see Ebay require by default, Sellers to list verified contact info, but that's a pipe dream cause it would cost too much. I would also PREFER that a warrant or subpeona be required to release information such as credit card numbers, bank accounts, and transactions, even to law enforcement officials.

Anonymity and privacy are great things, but they only extend as far as you are willing to stay private. When you enter a public domain, your expectaion of privacy is highly deminished. Ebay is very much a public area where people freely go (no different than a department store). At a department store, the store is never private, but the customers can choose to be by purchasing in cash, or they can wave that privacy and use traceable credit/debit cards or checks.

-Ab

In the UK at least you are permitted to "cost" your time preparing and attending a small claims court as "legal costs" although normally in the UK small claims courts do not award costs... each side pays their own

In CA you can include costs to the amount of damages you're asking for, but you probably wouldn't be awarded costs in addition to damages. The contract seems to say that they will bill you $1000 for filing suit anywhere other than Santa Clara, so I would just add that to the damages I was seeking. I think the reality, though, is that they countersue you for that amount. I would be very suprised if they would still have legal claim to that $1000 if they lost.

I can't think of a single instance where a US court has accepted a US internet company is liable for breaking the laws (or being sued) of another *country*

I said county, not country. The T&C says that you are bound by the laws of Santa Clara County.

Finally, there are other avenues. If you don't live in CA, for example, the FTC might be very interested in what Paypal is doing with your money.

As would I be. They claim to be legally your (or your clients, depending on which is convenient for them) agent; the money in limbo is either in the process of arriving in your account - or in the process of leaving theirs...

Another fun possibility is the agency that regulates banks (I can't remember what it's called right now, I keep wanting to say FICA but I know that's not right). Paypal has been very careful to not be considered a bank, it would be a Damn Shame to ruin that for them.

interesting - it might be worthwhile you posting an URL or email address that international (or out of state) readers here who may have had problems with paypal could get in contact with them though.

Here is the main page for the San Jose BBB office. It should be obvious from there.