Slashdot Mirror
Mac OS X Tiger Accidentally Shipped Early
boarder8925 writes "Engadget reports: 'In many places around the world, Mac fans and Apple distributors received a shipment they weren't quite expecting: Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger arrived at the door a full eight days ahead of schedule for some lucky folks who pre-ordered. Vendors PCMall/MacMall and ClubMac gave pre-order customers a treat by unleashing the OS ahead of schedule, quickly followed up by a 'recall' of the copies from PCMall.'"
Feature 201: It's early !
This is not a signature.
I just want to know who were the people that returned the copies, so I can laugh at them. somethign like that.
If you are located within 50 miles of Cupertino and listen very carefully (I actually had to turn off my computer to cut the fan noise), you can actually hear Steve Jobs yelling!
"...all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness..." yada yada
...no one's going to listen to the "recall."
But Microsoft will ship Longhorn...oh...just a wee bit late, so on average...the world is OK
Isn't this old news... Like happened at least three or so days ago.
Either way, I'm sure they're going to get one of Steve's Armani boots lodged up their ass.
while they sue themselves for leaking Tiger? Sunny must be pissed as hell right now.
you insensitive PC power drainer.
Torrent please
At least one other "reseller" has received legal threats, but apparently they think they are immune.
It turns out that ut's not an 8 day early copy of OS X, it's a 1 year 8 day early copy of Longhorn.
Beep beep.
What a shame, with all that money and R&D and little old Apple beat MS to the punchline. Now Windows is the last desktop OS that is 64 bit...
Our 64 bit Windows OS Just Works, barely
Makes me want to cry...
Your Average Joe
The cat is out of the bag? And if you are so anxious to open your copy and install it, your curiousity will have killed it? Sheesh.
why do you care if its supported by apple? just sell your version on ebay and have enough money to buy hundreds of new versions in a week...
...that Longhorn will be out earlier than expected? Cool!
I used to work at a video game retailing store, and we used to get shipments of products in well before their offical release date. They would be in plain brown unmarked boxes that would have red tape on them with the offical release date on it. Anyone who even openned the boxes early could be fired. We had Halo 2 the day before the release, and believe me, it would have been nice to start calling up the preorder people and telling them to come get it.
Anyways, my point is, doesn't Apple (or other software companies,) have a similar policy regarding the release of their product and preorders? If not, perhaps they should.
Eh, they release Tiger to a few Mac zealots who early-ordered it, they tell their friends, it gets into the news, creating a marketing buzz... nothing to see here.
"The advanced societies of the future will be driven by competing systems of psychopathology." -JG Ballard
anyone here got a official copy? i've been wondering for ages what the final build would be?
Maybe Microsoft could have something that closely resembles this feature in Longhorn =)
A Mac fucked up! How unique? That *never* has happened before....
Too bad Amazon's not incompetent like the *.Malls were and they'd shipped my family pack ($150 after rebate). Did full backups this weekend in anticipation, though I've never (knock on Titanium) had an Apple upgrade go badly (NT4->Win2k a whole 'nother story.)
So.. this must be how my girlfriend feels when I.. uh.. arrive ahead of schedule. :|
slashdot!=valid HTML
It's THAT fast !
Anyway, I installed it already, and oh man, it is everything I thought it was going to be. Actually, those ten improvements (Spotlight, Dashboard, Automator, etc.) that everyone's talking about are all pretty cool, but the OS really is significantly faster and smoother than 10.3.x. And a lot cool stuff is changed under the surface. Check the man page for cp, etc., and you'll see what I mean.
I have to say, I really am impressed with this release. Every previous upgrade has been a big surprise and a big improvement, and I was skeptical that Tiger would be anything to jump up and down over, but I really have to say that I've been pleasantly surprised with this one.
And no, I'm not sending it back!
Maybe they shipped it out early, so that the store shelves would all be stocked by the time the release date came. I don't think they were supposed to open the box, and start selling the copies as soon as they recieved it.
"The editors don't break stories, they repost stories and the users comment on it. "
Oh they break them. Sometimes into little pieces.
No /. reader would turn their computer off longer than it takes to reboot.
...where I work. We get prerelease CDs from Apple regularly and we send back bug reports regarding their JVM. We always make sure to destroy the CDs by the proper dates. I suppose we should be more careful with them to avoid turning into a Slashdot story like this one.
Most of the stupid JVM bugs specific to OSX that we run into aren't reproducible on the machine running Tiger. Java seems to be really improved in this release.
When they annouced the release for the end of the month I called my retailer to secure a copy. He told me he would have it the following week, and that I could come and see a demonstration, but that he wouldn't sell any copy before the 29, having signed an embargo contract with Apple. I will have mine in 5 days.
Unfortunately Apple OS X doesn't support 587 different system types. It only supports... 4.
So yea, wow.
LINK to welcome video. LINK to RSS screensaver in OSX
Does anyone know if computers order from apple before next firday come with 10.4 installed?
or does one have to wait to the release date for new macs do have 10.4?
Mikey
I've always been the kinda guy to fall for the girl dressed like an eskimo.
Duke Nukem Forever will average everything out when it finally goes gold.
http://www.thepiratebay.org/download.php/3319455/0 4.17.05.Mac.OS.X.10.4.Tiger-XiSO.torrent
Keep it, install it, wait a few days after launch and say it hasn't come. Then when the next one comes give it to a friend. F**k you Apple!!
What's the point of release dates anyhow?
With digital distribution now finally catching on, it would be in the best interest of most companies to release when it's done.. I'd much prefer to download a (legal) burnable disc image than have to wait for a box to show up.
IMHO much piracy is due to impatient souls who simply can't wait for the release. Music is a great exmaple of this. I say when it goes gold, release it. Many of these downloaders would probably pay for it.
www.lonseidman.com
Apple only will sell Tiger on DVD. If you want it on CD, you have to send your dvd copy and pay an extra 10$ for them to send you cd's.
The torrent copy can't be burned on toaster, you need to use Disk Utility and have a DVD burner, so this means most people with only 1 mac machine and no dvd burner can't install tiger.
So this cuts piracy, i don't know how much, but maybe over half of the potencial user base.
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
And you think Longhorn will by on time???? It will be (at least) 8 weeks late. So: 1 year, 8 weeks and 8 days early copy!
Cat's out of the bag. I wouldn't return MEOW copy. I had a FELINE this was going to happen. I bet Apple is CATegorically CATatonic with this CATaclysmic CATastrophe.
What a marketing coup. Just think of long horn.
Ahahaha..
I agree with him. Honestly.
There seems to be a bug with Slashcode. I'm not getting the "+1, aixou agrees with him" moderation option.
This guy only posts on /. to link to his own site, and he's also posted those links in another /. story today using tinyurl to disguise it.
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
There seems to be a bug with Slashcode. I'm not getting the "+1, aixou agrees with him" moderation option.
Lol.. That's pretty funny.. though that wasn't the point of my post. It wasn't "I agree with him, therefore mod him up".. It was "I agree with him, here's why".
They CAN assist in "copyright violation" and not get in trouble because IT'S NOT AGAINST SWEDISH LAW TO RUN A TRACKER, you fucking simp.
Now, you may just get your wish, because I could've sworn Sweden's copyright law was getting "updated" here in 2-3 months. I can't remember the source though.
Cornell's law site backs him up; unordered merchandise belongs to the recipient. (Interestingly, I had that link handy because one of the free stuff sites accidentally sent me two iPod shuffles instead of one, and I wanted to know my legal status with regard to the second one.)
www.geeknet.nl
Now that Apple has released 10.4 early, let's see how long it takes for the jerks at CherryOS to start mentioning that "CherryOS is fully compatible with 10.4, and runs at 120% it's origonal speed!" :-)
Speaking of Cherry, does anyone know when the 'OSS' version of their software is being released? Probably on the same day as Longhorn's
Due to financial difficulties, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.
Hah! Sweden is a huge producer of pop music. Saying they're not creative is like... um... dunno. It's just silly. And they're also the home of Propellerhead Software, who made Reason. I believe the Nordlead synths come from Sweden too. So hah. ;)
Slashdot, you're AWESOME!
A feature that Microsoft can't copy!
Chinese Torrent
OSX Tiger Came Prematurely
See, that's what I like about Longhorn...He's Mr. Slow-n-Easy...Just like Barry White.
GET FREE APPLE STUFF!
Well as the "moore library issue" and "your information wants to be free" stories show. There's a large number who don't think like that. Todays motto is "what's in it for me?". That's until the consequences of such come home to roost. Then it's "all your fault for me being a bad person." Multiply this with each succeeding generation, and you see were societies heading.
The new edition will be much snappier.
Sometimes I am not allowed to browse directories I know are there.
/usr, /sbin, /etc, those are hidden so as not to confuse newbies or become a target for people who stupidly delete things they think are cluttering up their hard drive without considering they might be important.
.hidden file in the root directory of the hard drive.
Such as? If you're talking about stuff like
You can get to those directories by doing "Go to Folder..." from the Finder's "Go" menu, or make them visible by editing the
As for a link, check out macosxhints.com.
~Philly
Yup the only thing I enjoy better than "Macs Suck" is the fact that the OS releases \Updates are usually on time and under budget. It lets the "Think Different" company fly in the face of the SOP that the other companies use i.e. Fast, bug free, and on time (pick 2). I was going through some Old Install disks and found a 7.5.3. from 1995 and on 8.1 from 97 (to put this in prespective that was also RH Linux 3.0 and NT 4) SO While I consider Apple a H/W Company those American Coders in Cupertino have been working hard as FizUCK to make an OS/Upgrade that always works never has hurt my Unit or my Data.
However I am on the fence about this upgrade. My Powerbook 500\DVD just got put on the 'unsupported' list and while it will run just fine, I am mighty happy with Ubuntu. I have been leery about feeling like a 'revenue stream'
And of course this accident of fate will make M$ the Last company to get to the 64 bit desktop.
All bitchiness aside I think I will pony up the bucks on a Mini.
130 for the OS and 150 for the iLife and iWork bundle take me more than half the way to the base model mini.
--Shaddup and support your local PBS station Plan for it
Check out the opening video for Tiger (the first time you set it up).
Cmd-Tab switches between applications, Cmd-` switches between application windows. I used to get just as frustrated navigating as you until I learned that!
Don't forget that most modern (traditionall) heavy metal also comes from Sweden (Hammerfall). Sweden is also the home country of modern (inudstrial) death metal (In Flames), a big player in 2nd generation black metal (Dimmu Borgir) and there's also some nice techno/rave tunes coming from Sweden (or so I've heard).
Anyway, Sweden and Norway are really big in music if you look past the average MTV bullshit playing all day.
If Apple really wanted to cut piracy on Tiger, they would include a sticker on the disc that says "Don't steal Tiger."
Question: If you are shipped a piece of software you didn't order (and therefore the shipment fell under the Federal Law), would you still have to obey the software's EULA?
um no.
:p.
/Users/seunghun/Pictures/iPhoto/something but it cannot be resolved because it's been mounted on /Volume/iMac. So the whole path is /Volume/iMac/Users/seunghun/Pictures/iPhoto/someth ing. So the symlink is broken when mounted under other computer. But you should still be able to back it up. CpMac fails in this situation.
CpMac and cp are totally different. try man CpMac... two options. -r and -p... and the behaviors when copying directories are different between cp and CpMac also. (subtlely but importantly.)
CpMac is a very simplistic program existing just because of the HFS+ quirks. It's not very sophisticated while cp (from freeBSD source tree) is full featured and has a pedigree
Like i passingly mentioned in my previous post, CpMac fails when copying broken symlinks.
try this:
ln -s nonexistant_file link
this works:
cp -Rp link copy
this does not
CpMac -r -p link copy
this was an issue when I was trying to back up my MacOSX partition. There is a symlink to
Apple may have blundered, but the terms of the sale were that users pay their license fees and in return they get a copy of Tiger on April 29. As silly as Apple's insistence may be that the accidentally shipped copies are returned, users have no contractual right to those copies and ought to comply with Apple's request.
That's been a constant niggle to me for something like a year and a half. thanks!
wrt the parent:
The stuff that bugged me the most:
The dock is nice eye-candy and all, but a crappy application launcher. Between that and no right-click launch menu on the desktop, trying to run an application sucks. I found a couple different launchers that made this problem bearable:
One is X-10 launch studio, the other newer one is quicksilver. Now, launching an application (say, Transit) is "command-space transit enter". Much faster and easier.
Another one is the cluttery buildup of windows that comes without a decent pager. But I found desktop manager to be an excellent pager with nice eye-candy features, too.
There are other things I use alot, but those are the ones I can't live without.
p.s. If you are using one of the many carbon ports of emacs, might try a different one -- I use emacs hours a day on mine and have never have a crash. It may be as simple as that.
Yes. Just like if you found a copy of tiger in a street ditch and took it home to use.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
I'm a big Apple fan but I recognize that they are not for everybody. And given what you've said your needs are, I don't think a PowerBook is a good match for you. If you are interested in running mainly or just X applications, then I wouldn't bother with Apple at all. (You can put YellowDog on it, but then you don't get the multiple buttons with your trackpad, and it's just a pain in general.) I think it's only worth the time and effort needed to switch to an Apple if you are interested in the Apple development tools, Mac-specific editors, work with the iLife applications, and also the tons of non-X based open source applications available.
Come on, you know they shipped it early to avoid Microsoft stealing their thunder. Rumor has it they were going to announce Xbox 2 on April 28...
http://www.walkingtaco.com
Lets see, who got the "mistaken" copies???
/. another time)...
Apple "fans" who will love the ego boost it gives them among their fellow Mac-Addicts and further fuels the elitist attitude of SOME Mac users...
This gets an otherwise minor release another item in the news (it shows up on
Even if it WAS a slip-up, Apple will still be none the worse for it...
Plus, it supports the claim of the Apple fan club that Apple already had invented this product earlier.
What keeps me going is my inertia.
That's part of it, but you really want to know the real reason? Swapping CDs sucks. Seriously. That's the real reason we put Tiger on a DVD.
Here's the one and only thing you need to know to understand Apple: Our goal is to make using your Mac a pleasant experience. Anything that takes away from that is our enemy. That's why we've historically even had an iffy relationship with some of our biggest software vendors. When Word 6 came out, I'm told that the level of anger around campus almost reached the point of violence. (That was before my time here.)
Bottom line: When you're installing your new OS, having to swap CDs sucks. So we're shipping DVDs. Anybody who doesn't have a DVD drive -- which is something like three out of four Mac owners, believe it or not -- can get CDs from their local Apple store or from the Web site.
(And don't think we didn't have long and heated conversations about whether it sucks more to have to swap CDs or to have to mail-order CDs. That one went back and forth a lot.)
...for retailers to receive software about 1 week before release with an embargo date. This includes Microsoft Windows and Mac OS. Many times individual stores accidentally place the software on the shelves before the embargo date passes. Not a major story.
I am certain that the writer of the article was confusing Apple support of pre-release versions of Tiger with Release versions Mac OS that's sold before the release date. I'm sure that Apple will support any Tiger that was sold in a shrink-wrapped box (perhaps not til after the release date).
I don't know if this is a US poster or not but there is something called "Theft of property lost mislaid or delivered by mistake." I know this applies to at least most if not all US states. If you knowingly keeps something delivered to you that you didn't order you've stolen it. This is not really the issue here though, you did order it, you got it but now the vendor is threatening to withhold part of the service for which you've paid. I would call the cc company and dispute the charge unless the vendor agrees to send you a new box first and then pay for the return of the old one.
I've taught many people to love macs. the first task is to get them to stop trying to convert the mac to something they like. One of the beauties of macs is that they are so incredibly standardized between applications and even users. Mucking with this will deteriorate your long term experience.
Trouble is people dont belive me when I say this. then later on, b y their second mac, they learn it was good advice.
Eventually you should get the book mac osx for unix geeks for sure. This is one terse powerhouse of deadly unix information. You probably are not ready for this yet till you start thinking in "mac" rather than trying to convert a mac to something you know.
for human interface issues like you seem to be having there are dozens of guides-for-idiots that would help you adjust your thinking patterns (e.g. how to get to those directories or why you dont actually want to, learn that macs are application centric not Windows centric
for archane power tips on see the book on the mac osx hints web page.
extracting Longhorn as we speak
<wrmachine> lame
<psaux> your mom
<wrmachine> see, i don't install beta anything unless i'm beta testing a game
<wrmachine> nor do i install software i don't intend to use
<psaux> I'm installing it in Virtual PC
<psaux> I want to see what's done right and what's done wrong, so that I can give the verbal smackdown to people who are all bitching about things they don't know what they're talking about
<wrmachine> ya i figured it'd be on a virtual pc, but still
<wrmachine> laaaame
<wrmachine> my mom made banana bread
<psaux> does your mom want to help me test my longhorn?
<psaux> it's stable and fast, and it can stay up for months without a problem
<wrmachine> i bet it'll crash as soon as i boot it
Windows expand to fill either the window dimensions or enough space to fit all their contents without scrolling, whichever is smaller (some apps don't widen their windows to fill the whole width of the screen).
/Applications, ~/Applications, or /Network/Applications whose name matched appname (without ".app"; e.g. "open -a Firefox" will open Firefox). Lastly, "open -e file" will open that file in TextEdit. Good for editing files text/config/ascii files by hand, but note that TextEdit will always render HTML and rtf (and maybe now MS Word) files, so if you want to beat on those you'll need something else.
Also, the open(1) command is your friend. "open filename" with open that file using whatever the registered application for it is (just like it was double-clicked in the finder). "open -a appname" will try to find an application in
Someone else who replied told you about how cmd-tab and cmd-backtick work; also, you should learn to love the flexibility of hiding entire apps versus minimizing windows. And if you want to minimize (or expand, or close) all of an apps windows at once, hold option and click the relevant box.
Question for the new Tiger users:
Is Tiger any more draconian than Panther, in regards to copy protection? Just out of curiosity...
Well, let's go back some years to find swedish inventor Håkan Lans creating PC color graphics, a useable computer pointing device, safe flight control (through something resembling "P2P GPS") - who has tried to hinder his creativity? US government agencies and major US corps.
Let's move on and find Ericsson software engineers creating AXE telephone switches, Bluetooth etc. Keep up, and we find Lavasofts Ad-Aware helping out most n00bs from getting the most out of skunkware. Pointsec, a swedish company producing the industry top class encryption sw (note: biggest customer is teh US military!). Yes, KaZaA and Skype are also created by swedes, ironic - isn't it!
Oh, did you know who actually made most of super-US bimbo Britney Spears smash hits? A swede called Max Martin. Go figure!
The more you know, the less you need. [Admin added: from me.]
Sometimes I am not allowed to browse directories I know are there.
These are hidden. Use the Go > Go to Folder (cmd+shift+G) command to get to them in the Finder
Switching application windows ("alt-tabbing") is more complicated than on Windows or KDE, since certain windows can only be switched to within the application (such as Firefox).
Alt+Tab switches applications
Alt+~ switches windows within applications
Expose is nice but not as effective I think.
This comes down to personal preference
Windows expand differently and unpredictively.
Windows expand not to fill the screen, but to fit their content as best possible
...and that's all there is to it.
Here's the one and only thing you need to know to understand Apple: Our goal is to make using your Mac a pleasant experience. Anything that takes away from that is our enemy.
Do you REALLY think that having to send your tiger dvd, pay 10 dollars and wait for the cd's to arrive is better than waste 10 seconds to swap cd's?
Now, you said the apple stores have the cd's. So if they have them, why not put them on the shelfs?
75% of the mac population don't have dvd's and then you make tiger dvd only by default? How big is the percentage number of those 75% that have hardware capable of installing tiger? If that number is anything bigger than 25%, then making tiger dvd by default was a mistake - swapping or not.
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
Apple stopped seeding betas at 8a425. They sent the final version (8A428) only to paying customners.
It seems to have worked too: The final version didn't appear on torrent sites until yesterday.
I don't really know what orking is, but a cow-orker is not someone I'd associate with.
So, where's the torrent?
Packaging.
If they produce one box with DVDs and one box with CDs, that's two different products to produce, pack, ship, track sales and take up shelf space. Combine this with the Family Pack, and you're up to four.
Under this current system, you walk into an Apple store with your DVD, pay the $10 and they hand you the CDs instead. Probably from behind the counter, rather than sitting on the shelf, where it also confuses the customers ("What? I wanted the DVD, not these CDs! Wrong package!"). See Full-Screen vs. Wide-Screen DVDs for examples of this confusion.
Overall, I think it makes sense for Apple.
75% of the mac population don't have dvd's
Care to cite that?
I saw that very same sticker at the Zoo the other day. I don't know why they even bother, people are gonna do it anyway!
% mkdir
% ls -dF
I got a Mac at work a few weeks ago, a Powerbook G4 or something, probably about one year old.
I call troll.
If you have a one year old PB G4,or a PowerBook G4 or at all, it says so on the computer. Under the screen. In center. You would be blind not to see it, deliberate troll or a retard to call it "a Powerbook G4 or something" when it clearly says "PowerBook G4" on the computer.
I believe he was using the 75% figure from the guy claiming to work for Apple. Try to keep up with the conversation.
Smartcard auth is a purported new feature; has anyone had a chance to check it out, or at least learn more about it?
I've only heard it's a feature -- no details.
No, he's basically right. I mean, if you ignore the fact that he seems not to have actually read my comment. There are forty million Macs out there in active use, according to our market-research guys. Something like three out of four of those sold without DVD-reading drives in them.
Now, something like three out of four OF THOSE can't even run Tiger anyway. It's not like somebody's going to go running Tiger on a Power Mac 9600. So it's not like we're saying that three out of four Tiger buyers will have to do the media exchange thing. Corporate tells us that they estimate it'll be closer to one in twenty. Which is fine.
But it all boils down to this: We put Tiger on a DVD instead of four CDs because we wanted to. That's all there is to it.
It's another 8-day miracle! We should make an Apple-themed menorah and celebrate this next year!
Next year, in Cupertino!
At the Shareholders meeting he was wearing sandals with black socks.
screenshots?
show us pleeeze
thanks much
OS X Tiger ships a week EARLY, and
MS Longhorn is 2 years late and counting....
Under this current system, you walk into an Apple store with your DVD, pay the $10 and they hand you the CDs instead.
My only problem with this solution, is that it shouldn't cost a dime. If you buy tiger on dvd and need cd's, simply exchange the dvd for the cd's. Penalizing customers because they don't have dvd/want cd's is a crime.
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
i bet we see this headline on Slashdot in the coming weeks about Apple suing those that download 10.4 via the torrent.. would be easy for them to get the IP's of all leechers.
Trying to recall OS X 10.4 now is like trying to catch a tiger by the tail.
I just want to say, thanks, IMHO it was the right choice. :-)
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
It's not like somebody's going to go running Tiger on a Power Mac 9600.
:-P
Oh come on, you know darn well SOMEBODY will.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
complain about Micro$oft ripping off their ideas... hmmm... sounds like a bunch of losers from the early 80's to me...
No. A customer who wants something stupid should not be catered to. Allowing them to continue to exist is about my limit.
Check out this awesome new web site I found!
;)
I think we should all go visit it! I mean, maybe even click a few links....even wget some pages over and over again.
Why didn't Apple ship a DVD _and_ CDs? They could have put the CDs in a special, extra layer of packaging, with a warning: "you don't need these CDs unless you have a Mac without a DVD drive".
I installed 8A425 by installing panther only my ipod and then booting from it, repartitioning my drive with Drive Genius, copying the disc image to the new partition, and installing from that. Nevermind the DVD.
Simply 'restore' your ipod, then pop in the Panther install cd, and select ipod as the target drive. Make sure you get rid of the extra crap they'll want to install; fonts, languages, etc.
then reboot, and hold option while booting to get the boot selection menu. Then select the disk with the firewire icon.
once in, fire up drive genius, resise your main partition -3gb, then use disk utility to 'restore' from the disk image.
then reboot. Hold down the option key, select the second hd (your new partition) and install from that.
when done, reboot, boot from ipod again, and use drive genius to return that 3gb to your main partition.
Viola!
Centralization breaks the internet.
http://www.magicpubs.com/mac/macosx.html/
Great resource for all things os x
That is exactly what we do.
Because for something like 19 out of 20 buyers, those CDs would have been a complete waste.
We just got criticized, unjustly, in the press by an environmental group because we don't pay to recycle our customers' computers. Imagine the field day they would have had if we'd shipped out 50 million unneeded CDs.
I have to disagree on the dock issue. What exactly is it that you find to be such a problem with it? I love the idea of an integrated launcher / manager. Both are right there in a convenient location, but the screen real-estate that it takes up is minimal. Every once in a while I'll have to go into the hard drive to launch an app if I don't have it on the dock, but even then, it's still pretty quick. The shortcuts on the side of the finder window have definately made things a lot easier since panther came out. I think the problem many people (not saying you specifically) have with the dock is just that it's a different way of working with a computer. That can be really annoying until you get used to it. Personally I used to curse constantly that Macs did things strangely. Keyboard shortcuts being different, etc. But, now that I've gotten used to it, I find myself wishing I could switch them on my PC.
that's what I wonder too... ;)
I was surprised to see how many people were downloading tiger two weeks before the release.
Well then WHY ship computers with CDROM DRIVES NOW!!!!! Apple still ships ibook g4's in an acedemic configuration with DVD drives. How can they upgrade to tiger? What about my ibook g4.. its 16 months old and I can't upgrade my OS without sending away for cds. The CD offer expires in june if you check the website. http://images.apple.com/macosx/pdf/tigermediaexcha ngev2.pdf
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
I do not get your point. DVD drives are perfectly usable for installing Tiger from a DVD, duh. Unless of course you plan to "upgrade" from a torrent (and have not preordered Tiger or do not plan to buy tiger on 29th), then you need a superdrive or an external drive or an ipod.... but in that case you are just a moron for using warez while having no idea how to actually use warez.
Anbody who bought a computer with a CD-Rom drive only in the last three years is a moron and should sodomise himself for being such a dumbass.
Any questions left?
Does Apple give users the option of directly ordering the CD version of Tiger via the online Apple store without the exchange bit, or the extra cost? This would seem to be a good compromise for users that have machines that Tiger is geared for but lack DVD drives.
STB
(Waiting for Tiger with baited breath, shad flavored of course.)
"Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
It's a super-duper speaicla final beta verison of Tiger that Apple is giving some devoted fans!
In America, you spam computers In Soviet Russia, computers spam you!
"We put Tiger on a DVD instead of four CDs because we wanted to. That's all there is to it."
In other words, it's part of our long standing tradition at Apple: We decide what's best for you. Don't expect to get a choice or say in the matter.
My biggest problem with it is that I have a wide variety of programs that I use a lot. So if I used my dock as my primary launcher, it gets very small... I don't like the magnification, because "scrubbing" along a small dock and relying on magnification makes me misfire when starting apps. So I keep my dock small enough that I don't have magnification (or very little) but can still *see* the apps on it. But that means that I can't get as many apps as I regularly run on it. So there are some apps I have to keep aliases for on my desktop (messy and cluttery), or click through /Applications to find it (slow).
/Applications on the dock so I can control-click and get the flyout menu, but the hesitation when I control-click is annoying.
I keep
So I like the dock, and I use it, but it's insufficient for me as a complete launcher. I think dock + spotlight (if it works anything like quicksilver) will be an excellent combo.
But the dock alone is IMHO insufficient for my needs. I guess I could change my habits, but I don't have to with quicksilver. It makes me faster and more productive. And that's what it's all about.
Or just fire up Terminal. If that wasn't one of the first things you did after installing OS X, you may not want to be messing around in there.
NOT what this page says. It says you must pay 9.95. NO WHERE have I seen anything saying you can carry your copy on DVD in to an Apple Store and get CD's for free. Personally, if they are making CD's, why can't they just package them in different packages, or do like they did with iLife 05 and just put the CD's in with the DVD. I know there's a difference in cost between the two, but the current policy is a pain for non DVD Mac Owners which are, as you said, not that many. There are a few that will be affected, but anyone who has a recent Mac likely has one with a DVD-ROM at least. Why make it hard on those who will be in the market soon??
Gorkman
How many CD's does AOL STILL ship per month? 50 million sounds right.
Gorkman
Except the guy working for Apple ("As Seen On TV") never said a darn thing about 75% at that point. He was talking in reply to the guy who stated the 75% figure.
Do try to keep up, yourself.
Dumb question, since cds cost so little why not include both the cds and dvd and give the end user the choice?
I would like to point out that I said:
Anybody who doesn't have a DVD drive -- which is something like three out of four Mac owners, believe it or not -- can get CDs from their local Apple store or from the Web site.
It's not like it's hard to keep track. All you have to do is scroll up a bit.
Basically, yeah. The reason people buy things rather than making them themselves is so they can trade money for convenience. Here at Apple, we've established a reputation -- mostly, but not entirely, deserved -- for making the right decisions. If you buy an Apple product, be it a thing or a piece of software, you can be pretty darned confident that it will have been done right.
According to last quarter's financials, we're doing pretty well in the marketplace. Our year-over-year sales went up by something like 40%.
You draw your own conclusions.
I've already answered all these questions. I'm going to answer them again just for you because you were oh so friendly.
1. If you want to exchange by mail, you have to pay shipping.
2. I'm really not all that interested in whether you got the memo about in-store exchanges or not.
3. We're not putting CDs in separate packages because the cost associated with manufacturing and stocking a separate SKU is amazing.
4. We're not putting CDs in with the DVDs because something like 19 out of 20 of the people who buy Tiger will not use the CDs, meaning those CDs would be a complete waste.
Can you also exchange the DVD media for a set of floppy disks?
(/me hates floppy disks and multiple CD install sets)
Could have sworn I saw a torrent listed the other day...
Ok, true story that I'll have to figure out when my copy arrives...
I bought the family pack of Tiger since I have 4 machines to install it on. 3 of the 4 have DVD drives. One does not. I don't want to trade in my DVD for CD's when I can use the DVD on 3/4ths of the machines in question. A family pack is for multiple licenses, in effect, so wouldn't I be entitled to have both the CDs and the DVD? Any idea what Apple will do about this?
yes, but they're also the type of people that could come up with some way to get it on there anyway as if it had a DVD drive, it wouldn't install, thus making this discussion moot.
11 was a racehorse
12 was 12
1111 Race
12112
http://community.java.net/mac/
10 years ago that time frame could be weeks or months. Being able to rent and buy a movie about the same time is something that has happened relitivly recently.
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
What about the environmental waste of shipping back the DVD version and shipping out the CDs? This could have been easily solved by allowing the customer to choose one or the other.
Help prevent the slashdot effect; stop reading the articles.
You know, it's just amazing to see you and everybody else fall for the old accidental "leak" trick
It's possible, but it would be a rather extreme shift from history and internal company culture.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Oh yes they are! If you upgrade the processor to a G3 or better, you can use XPostFacto you can run OS X on ancient powermacs. You can even run Jaguar on a fast PPC 604 with this terrific patch!
I plan to buy a copy of Tiger and load it onto my hot-rodded Frankenmac 7600 just as soon as it's practical.
-- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
I don't suppose you guys could have shipped CDs and a DVD? If the motivation is user experience then this would have covered all the bases.
Oh, did you know who actually made most of super-US bimbo Britney Spears smash hits? A swede called Max Martin. Go figure!
Oh, sure. You swedes are great at all that stuff, but who do you need to actually provided the bimbos? America, that's who!
Hey, wait a sec...
Do you know what really, really sucks?
Paying $1800 for a computer from a *HARDWARE* company and 11 months later having to spend $130+tax for a software update. I mean seriously; a mac mini for $500 includes tiger, $80 worth of iLife and other bundled software. WFT, is the mini free and the software $500?
I wouldn't buy tiger but I might by a mini to upgrade and my powerbook and have an almost free SFF computer to play with (maybe even with YDL so I'm not even exceeding my tiger licenses).
I can only think of one supported mac model that did not come with a DVD drive. The iMac 350. Oh wait on, no firewire so it's not supported. Other than the occasional iBook 500 it is very very rare to find a mac without at least a DVD reader.
You can turn off rich text processing for HTML and RTF in TextEdit's preferences if it annoys you.
Argue as you might, but the whole problem comes down to this...
I ordered Tiger from the wrong distributer clearly. *I* still have to wait 5 days. This "mistake" just serves to notify people like me who we should order from in the future!
I should dig around on their sites for a PB G5 - seems they like giving away things in advance of the rest of the world...
So, who was this sleazy outfit that tried to shake you down?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
And send out CD's AND a DVD.
Works for them.
Seems to me that this is probably the whole point. OS X has a software update tool, so they could easily update pre-release copies to be compatible. If they aren't doing so, it suggests to me that either: a) the software update system itself is broken, or b) the copy protection/serial authentication/registration is broken.
Novell ship an installation DVD, 5 installation CDs, and a second DVD containing sources when you buy SuSE Pro.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
Why, if you know you need it on CD, can't you order it that way directly?
Why force someone to order it on DVD and then swap it?
If you have a one year old PB G4,or a PowerBook G4 or at all, it says so on the computer.
You may be right, or they may just have an old ibook g3 which just says "ibook" on it, or even an 4 year old powerbook. I've never seen emacs crash, but I don't use it much. Anyone?
Can't you read? He said like 3 times that 19 out of 20 Tiger buyers don't want CDs, just a DVD. CDs would be totally wasteful.
Can't you register? Your venom would work better with a score.
In reference to the actual issue, all I can say is I'm glad many software developers aren't ignoring the needs of only 1 in 20 computer owners who have a Mac. On this occasion Apple could follow the logic.
No. The EULA isn't worth the pixels it's not printed on anyway, you can just ignore it.
Don't compare Unix and DOS file extensions. In Unix they are merely a user convenience.
.foo, .sh, .out, or even .exe then go right ahead in Unix. Just as long as you 'chmod a+x' it'll try to run.
.c files or .o files. While those are the typical "extensions" for C code and object files, you can name them what ever you like. You may have to override a few defaults along the way to use them, but it's not carved in stone.
The most obvious difference being "executables". Unix doesn't care if there's a file extension or not. If the file mode bit says it's executable for you, and you use the filename as a command, then Unix tries hard to execute it. Typically executables have no extension, but if you want to append
Don't point to
All those accomplisments sounded so great until the Britney Spears smash hit. That's not something to be proud of!
rm -rf
Actually the whole move to DVDs as a default installation media for what would be multiple CDs is very cool in my opinion. I want to see more of this in the future.
It would be nice to see Apple "pre-ship" about 10 copies or more of the CD media (the same stuff you'd have to order) to the apple stores. That way if it's 1 in 20, you may need more after 200 sales. But this would allow people to trade in their DVD for CDs in the store...
One stealth killer app: the RSS Visualiser screen saver.
When one dude at this all-M$ office saw it, he gasped and said, "I'm going to sell ALL my PCs!"
you had me at #!
1.You say this like you know and you may, but I have not seen a PUBLICALLY available statement from Apple itself on this. Just from a dude on Slashdot. You may work for Apple, but what proof do I have?? You may have seen a memo, but we have not and I have not seen this ANYWHERE on the Apple site. Don't you think that something like this would be posted....especially for people, like myself, who have an Apple Store that is local to them? Quite spouting off things and start posting links.
2. Again, why just a memo? Why not post this on the main web site? How do I have any proof???
4. No stocking another SKU is not AMAZING. Just ask the local grocery store. Oh sure, there's costs involved in producing a few million stickers and to order a few extra boxes. There's another UPC code in the DB... I mean how hard can it be? It AIN'T frickin rocket science.
4. Again, I don't think it would be a waste to just drop the CD's in there. I have had some packages from other companys come with 5-10 CD's. Not really all that bad when you us the right CD case. What I see as MORE of a waste is having that HUGE cardboard box with nothing but a 10 page pamplet and a single DVD in it. If Apple cares about the environment, they should use less cardboard in the package.
I think it's nice Apple wants to make things easy for the install, but let's face it, the RIGHT thing to do would have been to offer both versions. I know you won't agree, but frankly, I don't care. It's my opinion, let me have it.
And I AM being as friendly as I can be when I think a company is doing something stupid. You are the one that is coming across as an arrogant ass and saying I know more then u cuz I work for Apple and blah blah blah....and this is what the blah blah blah memo I have but noone outside of Apple has seen. Put a LINK to this policy up and I will believe it (the policy regarding free cd's if you walk in to the Apple store).
I CAN have an opinion. I will defend it. In another year or two, I would see the POINT in only releasing on DVD because by that point, the people who bought early iBooks and other machines will be upgrading either to a Mac Mini, or a new Powerbook/iBook. Right now, there are too many older machines out there to not have CD's. I mean you guys are already making them.....why would it be SO difficult to make a short run of CD's in a box?? Why am I wrong for having this opinion?? I love Apple products and do believe that they usually make the right decision but I whole heartedly disagree with not making CD available seperately as a separate SKU. Like I said, in another year or two, I can see this, but not now.
Just because I love Apple, doesn't mean I am always going to agree with them and why should I?? If Apple just wants me to buy without hearing an opinion or two out of me, they are SORELY mistaken.
Gorkman
Well, one thing you have to consider, is you seem like you do a bit more than the average user. How many different programs do you have on the dock? I personally have about 10 - 15 programs that I launch almost every time I sit down on the computer. Those applications fill my dock all the time. The rest I just leave in the apps folder. I think you're right that there needs to be some sort of solution for people who use as many different programs as you, but, again, I love the main idea of the dock. A friend of mine showed me quicksilver the other day, and it looks interesting. I'll have to play with it some more.
Let's see what we have here.
On the one hand: An employee of a multibillion-dollar corporation that's the darling of Wall Street and a spectacular success story all around.
On the other hand: You.
I'm gonna believe As Seen, thanks.
(Oh, BTW, those machines you cited as needing CDs can't run Tiger anyway. Tiger requires Firewire.)
Has As Seen on TV ever shwon PROOF he works for Apple beyond the Apple Store? Has he ever provided a link for items he is purporting to be true??
yes he has shown proof. he disclosed final cut pro 5 and shake 4 a week before nab. he has discussed the internals of spotlight and other features of tiger.
he has cred. you do not. you suck.
But...on Apple's Up-to-Date FAQ it states: "The $9.95 (U.S. dollars) that you pay for the Up-to-Date kit is the charge for media and handling charges. Shipping is free unless you choose express shipping." So the extra $9.95 is to pay for the actual CD media itself (not the software contained thereon). I'm guessing the handling fee is for the employee carrying it to the shipping department?
If the exchanging media in the retail stores is as you say it is, I'd like to see it included in the FAQ for purchasing Tiger for reference.
That's poorly worded. I'll send out an e-mail about that and see if I can get it fixed.
Here's how it works: People who want CDs are not going to get us to mail them for free. That's just not going to happen. The $9.95 charge covers the cost, to us, of manufacturing the CD (which we already did, of course), putting it in a box with an address label on it, and shipping it. The $9.95 figure does not cover the costs. We lose a little money every time somebody mail-orders Tiger on CD from us.
I'll see if I can't get those Web pages cleaned up.
Awesome! Thanks very much.
/me sheepishly raises his hand I haven't done that with any Apple software recently, though... -:sigma.SB
WARN
THERE IS ANOTHER SYSTEM
Well, I think that all the G4 PowerBooks have the markings. And I've never even herad that Emacs has ever crashed. I'm a Vim / SubeEthaEdit user myself, but I respect Emacs it's just not for me.
I call bullshit. I've never had emacs crash on me on Mac OS X... not once since I've been using it, which is near-daily since Mac OS X 10.0.
did the copies just get up, walk into the boxes and ship themselves? someone explain how this happened!
Oh wait. The updates take longer than 8 minutes to download.
HA HA HA!! YoU uR 0wn3d!!!
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
And I imagine that, white DVD burners might be rare, DVD readers are probably "de rigeur" for almost any any system sold since. Apple bundled them in so cheap.
I wonder just how accurate your estimate is that "Something like three out of four of those sold without DVD-reading drives in them"
What degree of confidence (.05) and what is your sample size?
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Apart from the fact that they didn't eally, I think I'm a lot happier that OS X 10.X is built on a stable Unix base (Darwin.)
And are you telling me that Microsoft had a working GUI until they worked with(against) OS 2's GUI (Presentation Manager)?
Windows 1.x and 2.x were fucking patheric jokes. (I worked on 'em and it was sad, really sad.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
You got a mouse in your pocket?
Moron.