Slashdot Mirror

What is "flagrant", is your grasp of language.

Your audiophiles with their setups are listening in a pristine environment and have trained their ears on hundreds of repeated listens to the same tracks to detect subtle variations in that

A. Do not represent "quality", but only difference from their own setup, which they assume is of the highest quality.
B. Simply do not matter in a typical listening environment.

The DAC in the iPhone dongle is good enough to drive a pair of Sennheiser HD 650s at high volume, converting from 48khz 24-bit lossless. Stick your audiophile friends in some random room and give them a double-blind test with those same headphones on their own amp and they WILL FAIL IT HALF THE TIME. I absolutely, 100-percent, GUARANTEE IT.

Here's a nice collection of similar studies done over the years:
https://www.head-fi.org/thread...
Your "musician friends" are just messing with you.

tly, looking for a good solution for my personal use case at work. I've found to be a gold mine of information.

I've never had any special love for Apple and especially not bluetooth anything. I read a bunch of posts there which I think this article from lifehacker mostly addresses.

tl;dr - audio compression, dead batteries, overlapping frequency ranges from other shit make bluetooth suck (although supposedly less so than in the past). I don't claim to be an expert just a reader.

Yeah, electrostatic is the holy grail of audiophiles yet it's a pretty accessible hobby if you have the tools, take a look into DIY Electrostatic Headphones:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/49829...

Where entry level orthos/isos are in the range of $100 they can get as high as $3000 so not only your kids can wear what they have created, maybe they can start a local "business" Are they worth that much money? IDK I have some vintage Fostex monitors and yes the electrostatic technology is as good as it gets for audio reproduction, almost everything is subjective in audio IMO. This is more a crafts and acoustics work rather than a pure electrical one tho.

Most of this is in the MFi manufacturing (Made For iPhone) program, and you can only get details if you're an audited and accepted factory to build MFi products (I've done several MFi products in the last few years, I've been through the Apple approval grinder more than once). But Apple doesn't let you build products that play with non-iOS or even obsolete iOS devices and still get the MFi (and thus, Lightning) licensing. Does it run afoul of anti-trust laws? Only if someone was to take it to court and push it through - which would be a very long, very expensive process. And there a few manufacturers out there making MFi-like cables for Android.

This could actually make a difference for portable devices with crap power supplies or crap/dying batteries. No jokes. Of course, proper decoupling on the SD reader circuit, and/or proper power filtering, would have the same effect. I would imagine, though, that this card, if it works as advertised, would reduce distortion and noise on lower-end (maybe not bottom of the barrel) MP3 players that lack proper decoupling and filtering; and when the price gap between the low-end and high-end players is more than the price of one of these cards (and even more than the price differential between one of these cards and the one you would otherwise be buying anyway), it may well be a viable option for the listener who bought the player they could afford and is less than thrilled with how it sounds.

Think about it, you have $99 to spend on a player, so you get what you can; a cheapie player with mediocre sound. You then scrape together $160 and grab one of these cards. If there's any merit to this card at all, if it introduces any level of internal decoupling or power filtering, above what the player already provides, that $259 expenditure may well result in sound comparable to a much more expensive player.

Or, it may be complete bullshit. I'll wait for the independent tests before ridiculing it, though; and I won't buy it either way. Well, unless I can get faster read/write speeds and. or better battery life out of my dSLR with it, which I'm sure someone will eventually test, as well, even if it's not the goal of this card.

Even with headphones on I can hear cabin announcements (I sure wish I couldn't, so I could sleep while the captain points out that we're crossing over the Rocky Mountains).

There are some IEMs that have great noise isolation. Couple a good pair with custom molded ear plugs, and with music on, you won't hear a damn thing. I use Etymotic IEMs on flights, and they work very well.

> Bose targets the more mature ignorant quality-seeking crowd,

FTFY.

In what universe does Bose and quality even go together?!?!? They are a complete over-priced under-quality joke by many audiophiles. They are nowhere in the top ten at Hi-Fi http://www.head-fi.org/f/113/h...

Senn cans are consistently top rated. I.e. http://www.head-fi.org/product...

Maybe if Bose didn't sound like shit and actually listed* their technical specs such THR -- oh wait Bose relies on ignorance and marketing just like Beats.

* Audioholics http://www.audioholics.com/edi...

Bose Corporation takes its psychoacoustics outlook right down to its controversial methods of published specifications, in that it does not publish specs by standard measured electrical and objective acoustic performance.

> Bose targets the more mature ignorant quality-seeking crowd,

FTFY.

In what universe does Bose and quality even go together?!?!? They are a complete over-priced under-quality joke by many audiophiles. They are nowhere in the top ten at Hi-Fi http://www.head-fi.org/f/113/h...

Senn cans are consistently top rated. I.e. http://www.head-fi.org/product...

Maybe if Bose didn't sound like shit and actually listed* their technical specs such THR -- oh wait Bose relies on ignorance and marketing just like Beats.

* Audioholics http://www.audioholics.com/edi...

Bose Corporation takes its psychoacoustics outlook right down to its controversial methods of published specifications, in that it does not publish specs by standard measured electrical and objective acoustic performance.

You do realize that classical music is used for rating headphones, yes? It's not because I listen to it exclusively, it's because it provides opportunities to see if there is enough clarity and definition of sound to do things like determine if you can tell violins from violas from cellos, or tell the horns apart. Read professional headphone reviews. It's not a matter of "superiority," it's stated because it's a tool in determining quality. Given you didn't know that, I'm pretty sure most of your other points are moot about determining fidelity. I'd rebut your statement about frequency response, but I think this image does a much better job. You sound like you're A) butthurt because someone is saying a brand you don't like is technically inferior, and B) like you simply have no idea what you're talking about.

Well, I am. And we've been through this before.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/41536...
What Neil Young "discovered":
Basically, don't run your music through crappy mixing boards, filter the good parts out, or compress the shit out of it, or use lossy compression,and it will sound better. You don't need gold plated cables or vacuum tubes.

Thanks for the link. I've seen it before, but I didn't notice the footnote which leads to this post which gives the first actually convincing explanation I've seen (not that I've looked very hard) for the adequacy of 16/44.1. It's easy to find people who go "Nyquist's theorem! Your limit of hearing is 20Khz!" but that ignores the effects of the bit rate, and that poster did not.

aesthetically there is honestly no comparison between the two devices.

You're right... the iPod is UGLY. What is it modeled after, a pack of cigarettes that took-up cross-dressing?

Gah! http://cfile25.uf.tistory.com/image/196275444E8D5D2B228E56

The Karma looks absolutely awesome in comparison: http://cdn.head-fi.org/d/dd/dd7d09c3_rio-karma.jpg

The DIY approach can yield really amazing results much higher quality than commercial phones in this price range. I discovered the Fostex T50Rp ($80) was a modder's paradise, and cut my teeth on it on head-fi here (I have a business doing Fostex mods, but it is unrelated to this thread): http://www.head-fi.org/t/452404/just-listened-to-some-fostex-t50rps-today-wow Another option is to forgo headphones and use in-ear monitors (IEMs). IEMs under $100 can sound way better than comparably priced headphones. Check out products from Shure, Velodyne, etc.

I bought a pair of Superlux HD681 for $25 which are an AKG240 copy. To my ear they sound the same and they sound the same.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/436092/superlux-hd681-impressions-akg-copy-budget-open-air-headphone

Really? Because that's pretty much what I have had for 2 years now with no issues (Ultimate ears triple fi 10). Ordinarily they're over $100, but they periodically go on sale for less and sound fantastic. I keep them in all day sometimes since I work next to the marketing team and as long as you're using comply foam tips they're quite comfortable.

If you do experience breakage (I haven't yet) you can get them re-bodied for around $80 USD from these guys...

The Kicker HP541 seems to be identical to the $23 Monoprice 8323. It looks to be a re-brand, but that's a huge price drop.

Seriously? Is this the kind of deeply technical questions that the diversified and experienced /. community is supposed to answer? Is this becoming Yahoo Answers?

And to the poster (because the first paragraph was to the editors), just take some time to type something into google and head over to:

• ilounge
• engadget:
  http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/26/ask-engadget-best-over-the-ear-headphones/
  http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/04/ask-engadget-best-passive-noise-cancelling-headphones/
  http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/31/ask-engadget-best-usb-headset-for-skype-calls-and-podcasting/
  http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/11/ask-engadget-best-non-gaming-wireless-headphones/
  http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/24/ask-engadget-best-non-ugly-noise-cancelling-bluetooth-headset/
  http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/01/ask-engadget-best-earbuds-for-outdoor-fitness-use/
• any audio forum

At least you will get more detailed answers and consistent comparisons. And I won't have to do the google typing for you.

http://www.head-fi.org/

Monoprice's $23 headphones have gotten some pretty good reviews:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57337747-47/how-good-can-$21.59-headphones-be/?tag=mncol;txt)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/608453/monoprice-dj-headphones-8323-review

They sound good to me, but I'm not a serious audiophile, I just use them to cover up background office noise. I think the sound is comparable to the $80 Sennheiser's I use at home. (which, a friend tells me are completely unbearable compared to his $500 Sennheiser HD650's, so I refuse to listen to music through his headphones, 'lest some of his "golden ears" rub off and I find myself needing more expensive gear)

Speaker wire is so low impedance and the signal so strong that even something from monoprice is plenty fine. The "true audiophiles" you are talking about are the brain dead kind. There actually are a breed of informed audiophiles who do the math and don't blow money on magic pixie dust components (several people over at head-fi seem to have their heads on straight). The place to really focus on cable is analog interconnects (if any). Replacing my cable from DAC -> Amp actually did make a very obvious difference that anyone would be able to hear.

Maybe you are right and the term audiophile has been tainted beyond repair. I still like to use the term without all the implied negativity though.

I did.

I simply ordered the parts. here's my post about it:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/project-frankensixfifties-tm-w-pics-390615/

cost was in the $200 range. brand 'new' cost (with fancy box) from JRmusic (cheapest around) is closer to $340.

my test was to see if there really was 'magic' in the uber expensive hd650 or not.

my conclusion: no magic. none at all.

save your money, get the hd600. its 99.9% the same driver and hardware.

If you buy those headphones, make sure all your music is in WAV format. FLAC tends so sound rather "flat", whereas WAV is much "warmer". Read all about it.

EOS

If you buy those headphones, make sure all your music is in WAV format. FLAC tends so sound rather "flat", whereas WAV is much "warmer". Read all about it.

EOS

If you buy those headphones, make sure all your music is in WAV format. FLAC tends so sound rather "flat", whereas WAV is much "warmer". Read all about it.

EOS

Instead of wasting your time here, I suggest you go to Head-Fi and ask there. While there are definitely some nutcases, I think you'll find that most head-philes are a good deal more "grounded" than your average audiophile and will give you some good advice that don't involve too much magic pixie-dust.

I've never actually seen them, but from what I've heard they use some rare connector that can be purchased individually, but for a crazy price. And more annoyingly, its a different connector as used on the other Sennheisers.

HDCDs can sound pretty good, assuming they aren't overly compressed like this. HDCD uses a 20-bit sample size via some inaudible encoding trickery. If you have a Windows machine hooked up to a good receiver/amp/speakers, you can listen to any HDCDs you have (MS now owns the patents and has incorporated decoding into WMP). Check the list of available discs since many aren't labelled as being HDCDs.

Actually even the audiophiles aren't going for this one (link to head-fi): http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/500-cable-334319/

Nevertheless the thread over there is just as entertaining :)

Don't laugh.

Check this out: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/03/300_audiophile_grade_power_cable_is_really_worth_15-2.html

And the actual thread at Head-Fi: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/my-cat-tore-up-my-virtual-dynamics-power-3-a-293165/

What's surprising about this is some of the comments made by the company rep.

I haven't found a music forum with activity even close to that of Hoffman's.

The discs he's mastered are great. His "Breath of Life" approach is, to pardon the pun, a breath of fresh air for those born after the age of vinyl. His painstaking approach results in very natural recordings. No fucking around with the tapes, just getting the best, "purest" source, and using it. A great example would be the DCC (Gold Disc) version of The Beach Boy's Pet Sounds. That'll set you back over $100 on eBay. Head-Fi's second podcast has a great interview with him.

I hope the resurgence of vinyl is a sign that ending, the loudness wars, are.

Pretty fascinating. I agree with the conclusion that #1, throw away the pack-in earbuds and get yourself a pair if in-ear-monitors. I have a pair of Ultimate Ears. I think http://www.head-fi.org is a place to check out headphone reviews. If you're going to spend $100s on your DAP you owe it to yourself (if you like music) to get a decent set of ear phones.

Also, in my own listening tests between iRiver H340, iAudio X5L, and iPod 2nd Gen 8GB Nano, the DAC quality was the poorest sounding on the iPod. Another thing that sucked about the iPod was that you couldn't manually adjust the EQ, there are some prefab EQ choices but no ability to custom adjust your own, just selecting from presets and none of them felt quite right, so I end up back at the flat EQ setting. The iRiver seemed to sound the best, but the iAdudio was very good too, maybe a little bit colder sound/feel to it. Both of us had Ultimate Ears Super fi 5 pro earphones. And we used 256kbit encoded mp3s in our comparisons.

I like the iPod for it's compactness, and I mostly listen to radio programs and lectures on it, where sound quality isn't an issue. For music it's my least favorite as a playback device. I've never signed up on iTunes, probably never will. I can't wrap my head around paying for mp3s. They must at least provide CD quality. Preferably, in this great new digital frontier, they could start selling digital files that are 24-bit 48khz and sound better than CDs. DRM free of course. But oh no. for $0.30 more you get 256kbit. All I can think of is "fuck off!" to that. If I'm paying big money I want the extra quality, at least lossless 16-bit 44khz to match CD audio. Anything else is bullshit. And I don't give a shit what listening tests say as far as if you can perceive the difference or not. I want it, that should be enough. I'm the customer with money to spend. But nobody wants to sell me what I want. I'm sticking with CDs for now.

True. Basically power is not clean enough to get real HQ out of the PC. I run optical out of my e-mu 1212m (which I also use for home recordings) to a external DAC made by HeadRoom. Check out http://head-fi.org/; tons of people who very enthusiastic/nerdily obsessed with great audio, there is even a computer-as-source forum!

If you have $100 to spend on headphones, you should spend $150 and get a pair of Sennheiser HD-580s. They are the cheapest high-quality headphones you'll find, period. They sound *excellent* on a PC audio card, and they scale up to $1000 headphone amps just as well if you swing that way. Bass is by no means lacking; by the time you manage to overdrive them, your head will be hurting.

Oh yeah, and they're the most cushy, comfy headphones on the planet. I wear them 8 hours a day with no complaint at all.

If you care about headphones enough to have read this, go browse around http://www.headphone.com/ and http://www.head-fi.org/. Never listen to advertisements when it comes to audio. (Never trust what you read on the internet, either. Listen before you buy.)

I've had my px100s for close to 2 years now, and they're still fine. I use them both at home with a small head-amp, and when I'm out and about, with various portable audio sources. They've survived roadtrips, econnomy airtravel and generally rough treatment.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a more comfortable, well-sounding set in the same price-range. They're really light, and can be comfortably worn for 20 hours at a time (gaming anyone ? ;-).

If you're *really* worried about durability, get a pair of Koss porta-pros. They don't sound as neutral (bit too much bass IMNHO), but they come with a lifetime warranty. I think you're more likely to develop hearing dammage with the Portapros, though, due to the slight bass emphasis. Still, listen to both at a hi-fi store, and decide for yourself.

Both are reasonably priced, has decent sound and are open, so you can hear what's happening around you. I personally prefer my px100 over Koss, but listen to both. Depending on audio source, and amplifier I would have to change to head-phones 10 times the price to hear any real difference. They're miles ahead of regular cheap headphones though. I've also listened to the Grado SR 80, and I'd take my px100s over SR 80 any day.

I recommend getting a headphone amplifier for use at work, especially if you're getting the px100s or a pair "hi-fi" headphones with similarily high impendance. You have to hear the difference to believe it.

On a side note, I sadly had to give up using my px100s when I got my new mp3 playing phone; the cheap amplifier in the Sony Ericsson w800 is unable to drive them, resulting in the sound breaking up (I got similar noise every time the battery in my portable cd player was about to give out).

Check out the buyers guide at http://headphone.com/ -- I think it's very good, especially considering it's a webshop. Also stop by the forums at http://head-fi.org/ for some good reviews.

And, finally, if you've become a unlimited budget hi-fi maniac, stop by http://headamp.com/ and get a serious amp for your phones... I'd like one, but for now I'm stuck with a cheap amplifier. It's still *way* better than just plugging into line out in the back of your pc.

I second this. I used to use a pair as my office headphones at my last job. They fulfilled the chief objectives - good sound quality, don't leak sound to the surroundings, comfortable, and cheap enough that I can afford to leave them at the office and not worry too much if they disappear.

As the poster said, look out for the look-alikes, particularly the V600. It's not the same thing at all. It's well known among enthusiasts that most Sony mass-marketed 'phones are crap, but the V6s are an exception and are well-regarded for their price. In the past, I've picked up good deals on some (gently) used 'phones at headphone forums like Head-Fi and HeadWize. You should be able to find a used pair at around $60, a bit more for new.

I'd never use my AKG 240Ss with my iPod, or any other portable device. My full sized cans are for listening off of my computer and nothing else. For my iPod I'm all about the canal-phones, in my case Etymotic ER-6is.

Check the Portable Audio forum at Head-Fi. General opinion seems to be that the 5G is the best iPod so far, but you may need an amp to get the best from your headphones.

The people here will be able to help, its a great place to find out about portable audio/headphones: http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/

I found the people at the head-fi forums were of great assistance when it came to earbud choice. It's a forum full of audiophiles, but they're not jerks about it. Tell 'em your price range and what you're looking for (do you like a bassier sound? A higher, brighter sound? etc), and they will undoubtedly help you out.

Once you hear some names and model numbers, google for reviews. But, if possible, it's best to actually hear your choices; no matter what peoples' opinion is of any earphone, it comes down to your listening preferences. If you find a sound that you like and it's in your price range, go for it.

I had to look up BER, and in doing so (alongside with Airport Express) came up with this, which talks about jitter on S/PDIF, so it's not as if this kind of error doesn't plague wires, either.

What you are asking essentially is the ber of the implementation of the underlying protocol; the 802.11b and 802.11g implementations of the Airport Express and the particular wifi card of the person who decided to use an Airport Express.

As far as I can tell, Airport Express uses UDP:5353 for Airtunes, but that's from a quick Google.

i took delivery of my ER-4P's today, and they are amazing. i love the SR-60's, but there is no comparison. my initial review of the Ety ER-4P can be found here here.

According to IpodLounge, the MP3 decoder chip is a SigmaTel D-Major STMP3550 (PDF).

This thread at head-fi.org has some additional comments regarding the chip.

It looks to be a basic MP3 decoder + DAC + integrated headphone amplifier with support for custom DRM algorithms, no fancy custom chips here. It is interesting that the chip has audio record features as well as FM tuner input and control capability. The data sheet also mentions that it can be upgraded for codecs other than MP3 (and obviously AAC and WMA). Ogg anyone?

Maybe we can expect to see some hacking of this player to enable some of these unused features.

Try the Wolfson DACs (hi-resolution mode) on the Chaintech AV-710, a $27 soundcard, using this guide to setup the driver: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75 655 There's also the EMU 1212u model for around $200 if you are interested in high recording quality as well. Audigy 2 is pretty crappy value, but is suitable for 3d gaming because it wins out in the low cpu utilization category. Isn't nVidia's Soundstorm still used in XBOX?

The url should be this:
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=84 189/

Agreed, headphones are excellent, but not always the best solution. For example, what does the person who has a PC in his room, next to his bed do?

My machine is nearly as loud as an airplane, and I can hear it from the other end of my house. Personally I find it comforting, but headhones wouldn't solve the problem if I did want it to be a little quieter in here.

Now for those working in an office, how many of you really have loud computers that would need this sort of silent PC solution? Headphones would solve the co-worker problem, but the problem of the loud PC is (reasonably) irrelevant in this situation.

You can try sony ex 51 or sony ex 71. (Sony MDREX71SL) The 71s are with softer / more comfortable seal but essentially the same. Head Fi or Ipod Lounge for more info. You can buy them at some apple stores or amazon.com or buy.com

Have you looked at getting headphones? With a nice pair of headphones, you can get quality that you'd have to spend several times more to get from speakers. Most notably, you gain an unmatched soundstage and incredible immersion in the music. Sennheiser Prestige HD-590 headphones retail for $150, and do not require an amplifier, unlike many high-end headphones. If you want incredible audio quality for a not-so-incredible price, they're your best bet. Check out the Head-Fi Headphone forums for more information and advice.

I don't want to sound like a snob, but $40 is nowhere near the head-end of headphones. And the ones you get for free with your walkman, forget it. There are lots of good moderately priced headphones that have straight connectors, which might be what you need. Read up a HeadWize or Head-Fi if you are interested in quality headphones.

I second this idea. For $200, you aren't going to find anything of audiophile quality in speakers, at least not for a whole system. Read some more headphone reviews at the community forums head-fi and headwize.

Myself, I have a pair of Sennheiser HD-580 headphones (no glasses) and I am completely happy with them. You can also get some good deals on used headphones on the above forums as well.

Head over to Head-Fi.org where all they talk about is headphone hi-fi audio stuff. (no, they don't sell them, but at least you can find out about real headphone hi-fi)

I mean, if you're that concerned about having quality analog audio output, you're not going to use the sound card integrated into that motherboard -- you'll just get way too much interference.