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Look, you obviously didn't follow the links in my post. The whole notion of 'empire' is being redefined. Some call it the New World Order, including Poppy and W.

There are radical differences in the way hegemony is managed between the Romans, lets say, and the post-colonial period that we're now in; those kinds of empires can't exist now, for a whole range of reasons. Essentially, the New American Century is already here.

Whilst military bases might provide the US with a global military reach they don't generate any direct income or economic benefit which is the real point of Empires.

The relationship between big-ticket trading, industries, etc. and those who run the --empire, forgive me-- is so complex and profuse and obscured by sleight of press that it's understandable how people miss seeing a 'direct benefit.' Anyway, I guess you don't live in the commonwealth, or you'd know that that empire always worked hand in hand with business. In Canada we had the Hudson's Bay Company. I guess that makes it Haliburton in Iraq.

Let's just take a look at a letter to Bush regarding Leviticus:

President Bush, I need some advice regarding God's Laws and how best to follow them

Dear President Bush:

11/26/04 "ICH" -- Congratulations on your election victory and for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. As you said, "in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18.22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

However, I do need some advice from you regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how best to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25.44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not to Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21.7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Leviticus15.19-24). The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord. (Leviticus 1.9) The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35.2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Leviticus11.10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there degrees of abomination?

7. Leviticus.21.20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus19.27. How should they die?

9. I know from Leviticus 11.6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean. May I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19.19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Leviticus 24.10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, as we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Leviticus 20.14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Yours truly,
An Inquiring Supporter

P.S. I look forward to your answers because there are a number of other issues that I'd like to get settled as soon as you've enlightened me on these ... Thanks again.

Transcripts can be found here http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037 .htm

So instead US forces enjoying to kill with their highly advanced weaponary with a 1000/1 killratio, you can now put people high on caffeïne on some buttons. I don't want to know what happends if such one "gets in the zone".
You could hit numerous individuals to up your killratio, until someone proves you're cheating. ("oh dude" indeed, bastards.)

This is just wrong, it's sickening. However a clever in a sense; a robot cannot break silly laws like.. the treathy of geneve, can it?

So instead US forces enjoying to kill with their highly advanced weaponary with a 1000/1 killratio, you can now put people high on caffeïne on some buttons. I don't want to know what happends if such one "gets in the zone".
You could hit numerous individuals to up your killratio, until someone proves you're cheating. ("oh dude" indeed, bastards.)

This is just wrong, it's sickening. However a clever in a sense; a robot cannot break silly laws like.. the treathy of geneve, can it?

It's not a myth. Or is it that you can't bring yourself to question your worldview that perhaps the US government isn't as benevolent as you'd hoped? As it stands today, the US is unable to support itself with domestic oil alone. That means that in order to support its war machine, it needs foreign oil and gas to keep functioning. Do you think it's coincidence that Pakistan enjoys impunity over its KNOWN nuclear black market while Iran is vilified for even ATTEMPTING to gain nuclear know how?

Wake up and realise you no longer live in a nation built on free and fair values, but rather on global hegemony designed to ensure its supply of resources to maintain living standards at present levels at the expense of everyone else. Democracy and freedom don't factor into the equation. They are merely platitudes to keep the populace uneducated. Why not read a few other sites for a different viewpoint:

Counterpunch

Truthout

Information Clearing House

Cryptome

> If you don't believe that the US has been privatizing (i.e., selling to foreign interests) Iraq's industries, well, you're allowed to deny reality all you want. We've privatized everything from the ports at Umm Qasr to Kimadia (Iraq's pharmaceutical industry which provided the country with cheap drugs). Read Bremer's Order 39, which privatized over 200 state-run companies by selling them off to the highest bidder (most of the bidders being US firms)

Here's that ever-relevant article from Harper's Magazine again.

Maybe you haven't seen this story/editorial from Harper's Magazine.

no, what made the Democrats loose the election were those damn voting machines and better propoganda.

it also helps to have a shadow organization on your side...

Although it has been said never believe in a conspiracy when incompetence and stupidity provides an explanation -- and god knows there's enough of that in the white house..

Just posted this on my journal in response to this comment.

Single-issue voters. God bless 'em. I listened to a woman call up NPR this morning (in Iowa, where I participated in this election), obviously a Dubya-supporter, and say, "We don't have slavery in this country because a bunch of Republicans put a stop to it!" She was completely oblivious to the fact that the party of Lincoln has since become the party of the Confederacy. She went on: "Yeah I voted my conscience. I've been voting my conscience for 35 years. It's about time people start voting their conscience rather than what's going to put food on their table or gas in their car."

So there you go. She knows she's getting screwed, and is okay with that. She - and probably a lot of others with similar views - feels that eliminating abortion, civil rights for homosexuals, and stem cell research is God's Work, and that if that calls for economic sacrifice because the Party representing that work is a bunch of crooks, so be it. She doesn't seem to question why she must sacrifice the food on her table to battle abortion, two seemingly-unrelated issues, but she's willing to. God tests us, God calls us to sacrifice, and she's answering the call.

What remains is some serious soul-searching by the rest of us. We know that abortions went down under Bill Clinton, who treated the causes of abortion, like poverty, rather than the symptom of legal abortions. I find anti-abortion single-issue voters to be hypocritical in their fervor of support for the life of the unborn, but not the life of the born. If having the baby would kill the mother, so be it. If outlawing abortions will kill teenaged-girls performing abortions with wire-coat hangars, so be it. Capital punishment, illegal war, shooting doctors who perform abortions, you name it, they're fer it. I have much more respect for those Christian evangelicals who are anti-abortion and also anti-war, anti-poverty, anti-capital punishment, anti-murder. Jim Wallis of Sojourners magazine comes to mind. But I feel like these Christians who are consistent in their belief of the value of human life are a dying breed. Certainly their percentage of support for a pro-war, pro-poverty, pro-capital punishment, pro-extrajudical-killing President who happens to be anti-abortion is telling.

The rest of us, who might not agree that abortion should be illegal, must nevertheless find a way to bridge the gap, because these people are not going to come to us. We might not want abortion to be illegal, but very few people are actually pro-abortion. The desire to reduce the number of aborted pregnancies and increase the quality of life for both the living and the unborn could be our common ground. The grandparent is right; logic and reason have no bearing on this debate. The only appeals that can be made are to their larger sense of Christian "compassion" out of which the support for some of these causes stem.

Some of them are too far gone, like the rising numbers of Christian fascists who, like the Left Behind series "preaches", believe that the world will end with the Second Coming and Armaggedon within the next couple decades. It's hard to start a discussion on environmental issues, or deficit spending, or anything, with people who are convinced the world will end soon, and the only thing that matters is getting into Heaven when it does. The numbers of these Christian fanatics is rising, and some accounts peg them at 20 million Americans already. Very disturbing. But all evangelical Christians are not this irrational and dogmatic, and we can find common ground with them to marginalize the dangerously schizophrenic among them.

I just hope we can do it in four years.

It may sound like I'm joking, but I'm serious: there are far, far too many people in the world that look at the US as some lust/hate object.

yeah, about those 'lust/hate' objects:

We have enough asshats already, so your absence, while not at all noted, is appreciated. .. is this not considered hate-speech in the United States?

I despise the United States for its utter and undeniable ignorance. I have lived there, I know its rewards .. but I also know its utter depravities. It is incorrigible that the people of the United States do not have the courage to bear witness to the crimes committed in their name, nor the intelligence to understand that 'freedom' means 'responsibility for all acts committed in your name'.

US 'supremacy' and 'nationalistic nailbiting' in random discussions on our fat-o'-the-land free forums is one thing. Million-dollar bombs where there should've been water pumps and irrigation canals is another thing entirely.

The correct word would be terrorist.

"Terrorism" seems a rather unlikely occupation for all of the tens of thousands of Iraqis that have been killed since the US invasion, and no matter what you want to call them, they are in fact people who would be living now if it weren't for our "brave" troops. How is decimating the population of a mostly harmless country at all justifiable when the intent is to save (American) lives? Bush has his trophy, now leave them alone.

The beheadings are a relatively recent trend that are largely conducted by one so-called terrorist and his cohorts. Whether justified or not, it's the only way they know to get their point across (they're basically powerless otherwise), and it's disturbing that we still refuse to listen. If they want the US to leave them alone, I say fine, pull out and never look back. But, that wouldn't mesh well with El Presidente's plans.

If you look at the writings of the Project for a New American Century circa 1997

Speaking of which, this article sheds an interesting light on the subject - particularly, that some of the undersigned on the Statement of Priciples for the Project for the New American Century include Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Jeb Bush. Scary stuff indeed.

I'm not sure about the following ID of Chalabi, though.. looks a lot like David Ferry to me!</conspiratology>

Iraq refused to cooperate with the UN inspections and various items were unaccounted for.

Let the inspectors do their jobs? Who are you kidding? Go take a look at some of the Iraq - UN timelines on the web and ask yourself why did the UN wait so long to do anything about Iraq's refusal to comply with UN demands? Eleven years after Gulf War 1, Iraq still wasn't complying with the UN, yet the UN did nothing.

"U.N. inspectors withdrew from Iraq a year ago, shortly before the U.S.-led invasion of the country. After the war, the United States deployed its own team under Kay and refused to allow U.N. inspectors to return. Kay's team concluded that Iraq did not have stockpiles banned weapons as alleged by President Bush in making his case for war.

"During the period under review, no official information was available to UNMOVIC on either the work of, or the results of, the investigations of the United States-led Iraq Survey Group in Iraq. Nor has the (U.S.) survey group requested any information from UNMOVIC," the U.N. report said.

It sets out Kay's findings that it was unlikely large stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons were deployed in Iraq after 1994, but makes no comment on them."

How many political prisioners were killed in Iraq while they continued to defy and hold back UN inspections?

The Iraq administration was evil. The only question in regard to this issue is should the US/UN step in when countries are systematically murdering those who oppose the government. If yes, then the WMD issue is immaterial.

An unmentioned strategic reason is demographics. In 15-20 years world demographics are going to shift severely. Middle Eastern countries will become a much bigger players on the world stage (Iraq, Iran, Syria, etc). These countries aren't exactly known for promoting world peace.

What happens to world/US security when these countries are much stronger militarily?

> So here's another company exploiting the deaths of innocents to make more money. When is stuff like this going to make it into the mainstream news?

Here is Harper's Magazine's take on the whole thing.

What the fuck does one thing have to do with the other? Except for parts of the movie where Moore appears, everything comes from news sources.

If Moore had gone to Iraq, you and other clowns like you would be going on and on about how everything had been "staged", or how he'd interviewed 300 soldiers and then selected the only 3 that supported his point of view.

Guess what, most of the movie is made from segments filmed by professional ("fair and balanced") reporters, that were simply never aired in the USA, or aired once and then "censored" by the networks themselves (in some cases with nasty repercussions for the reporters, for showing the "wrong" kind of truth). In fact, virtually everything in Moore's movie had already been seen over and over again outside the USA (where there's no censorship).

And most of the shady relationships between Bush and the bin Ladins had already been documented in Exposed: The Carlyle Group, which, again, was never shown on any major USA channel...

Censorship, torture, faked elections, and the USA wants to give the rest of the world lessons in democracy...? Have some sense of shame and ridicule.

Hey, that was a good post. Thanks for taking the time out.

Yes I criticize a lot - I know. But the 'head of the class' should be the head because he is the wisest, not because he is the biggest. The bully mentality alienates your friends and enrage your enemies. This is already happening big time.

I haven't heard about the election-fraud accusations in Germany, but we've had them in my country (Denmark). There is no doubt nor dispute about who got the votes in neither Germany nor my country though and you cannot imagine a society that has no corrupted individuals. You are right, Italy seems a farce under Berlosconi, and I really do NOT wanna turn this into a 'XX is better than YY' type thing, EU is far from any paradise, and we've certainly got our shit to work out.

However since you do the comparison, neither Germany nor Italy engages in preemptive warfare (thnx in big part to the US), but the US does. At least that is the impression you are left with if you first read PNAC and then consider who the prominent PNAC members are (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz...).

Oh, I don't believe for one second that these guys are stupid. Bonkers they may be - but stupid they're not. They know very well what they're doing. I am not sure they quite realise what their actions might entail (nor do I for that matter), but I am also not sure that they care too much.

No - what I meant when I said bonkers was you guys - the ones who lives in US, the real US. The ones whose votes will determine life and death matters all over the world. The ones whose votes will shape the international climate, the ones who won't vote because they 'it does not matter, nothing can be done anyways, I am not willing to waste my time trying'. That really seems odd.

US is so big, and you're probably right, we don't have diversity in the face the way you do. I am posting this from rather comfortable little DK (best place in the world, then our right wing took over), I am not in Romania or Albania or on the Balkans, I am not even in Italy. It's easy for me to sit here and be high-strung. That however, does not alter the fact that you guys really need to DO something. I just hope that this one time your apathy will be left at home when you go voting and that your election will end with the only reasonable outcome.

US is NOT the moral leader of the world, it's just the biggest military force in existence. A lot of US folks may not realise that, but that's how everybody else sees it. You can change that...

Here's a video for you

I am sorry if I come off staunch, I am just soo fucking amazed by the beast that is the US. The whole Swift-boat-liars-for-whatever affair, FOX news, Bush in general, Fahrenheit 9/11 etc...

Thnx for your post, it was a good read and I'd mod u up if I could.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are an US student we are recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.
We can stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!

Free housing:In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!
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Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!
If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!
Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your residential developments on occupied land with experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.
If you are a US citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes along the Med, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated yearly by American taxpayers to support our broken-ass state.

Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs $$$$$$s to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.
Vacancies available:We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower division.
We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer today.If anybody criticises you, call them anti-Semitic.
It worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are an US student we are recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.
We can stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!

Free housing:In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!
We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.
Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!
If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!
Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your residential developments on occupied land with experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.
If you are a US citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes along the Med, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated yearly by American taxpayers to support our broken-ass state.

Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs $$$$$$s to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.
Vacancies available:We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower division.
We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer today.If anybody criticises you, call them anti-Semitic.
It worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are an American student we are recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.
We can stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!

Free housing:
In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!
We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.
Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!
If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!
Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your residential developments on occupied land with experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.
If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes along the Med, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated yearly by American taxpayers to help support our broken-ass state.

Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs $$$$$$s to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.
Vacancies available:We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower division.
We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.
Do it today.If anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite.
It worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are an American student we are recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.
We can stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!

Free housing:
In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!
We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.
Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!
If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!
Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your residential developments on occupied land with experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.
If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes along the Med, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated yearly by American taxpayers to help support our broken-ass state.

Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs $$$$$$s to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.
Vacancies available:We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower division.
We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.
Do it today.If anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite.
It worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are at an American University we are recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.
We can stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!
Free housing:In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!
We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.
Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!
If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!
Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!
We can protect your residential developments on occupied land with experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.
If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes and view of the Med, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated yearly by American taxpayers to help support our broken-ass state.
Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs $$$$$$s to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.
Give a man a gun and he can kill a Palestinian child. Give him a helicopter and he can kill them all.
Part-time vacancies available:We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower division.We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.If anybody criticises you,point a finger and call them anti-Semite,it worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are at an American University we are recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.
We can stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!

Free housing:In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!
We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.
Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!
If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!
Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!
We can protect your residential developments on occupied land with experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.
If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes and view of the Med, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated yearly by American taxpayers to help support our broken-ass state.
Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs $$$$$$s to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.
Give a man a gun and he can kill a Palestinian child. Give him a helicopter and he can kill them all.
Part-time vacancies available:We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower division.
We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.If anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite,it worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are at an American University we are recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.
We can stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!

Free housing:In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!
We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.
Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!
If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!
Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your residential developments on occupied land with experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.
If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes and view of the Med, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated yearly by American taxpayers to help support our broken-ass state.

Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs $$$$$$s to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.
Give a man a gun and he can kill a Palestinian child. Give him a helicopter and he can kill them all.
Part-time vacancies available:We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower division.
We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.Do it today.If anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite,It worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are at an American University we are recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.
We can stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!

Free housing:In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!
We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.
Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!
If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!
Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your residential developments on occupied land with experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.
If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes and view of the Med, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated yearly by American taxpayers to help support our broken-ass state.

Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs $$$$$$s to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.
Give a man a gun and he can kill a Palestinian child. Give him a helicopter and he can kill them all.
Part-time vacancies available:We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower division.
We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.
Do it today.If anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite.
It worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are at an American University we are recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students and lecturers on behalf of the Israeli government.
We can stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!

Free housing:In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!
We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.
Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!
If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!
Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your residential developments on occupied land with experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.
If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes with a view of the Mediterranean, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated yearly by American taxpayers to help support our broken-ass state.

Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs $$$$$$s to terrorise a whole region.
Our military can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.
Give a man a gun and he can kill a Palestinian child. Give him a helicopter and he can kill them all.
Part-time vacancies available:We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but have a keen eye with a sniper scope you are the ideal candidate for our watchtower division.
We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.
Do it today.If anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite.
It worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are at an American University we are recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.
We can stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!

Free housing:In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!
We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.
Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!
If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!
Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your residential developments on occupied land with experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.
If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes with a view of the Mediterranean, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated yearly by American taxpayers to help support our broken-ass state.

Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs $$$$$$s to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.
Give a man a gun and he can kill a Palestinian child. Give him a helicopter and he can kill them all.
Part-time vacancies available:We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower division.
We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.
Do it today.If anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite.
It worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are at an American University we are currently recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.
We can actively stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!

Free housing:In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!
We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.
Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!
If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!
Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your residential developments on occupied land with experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.

If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes with a view of the Mediterranean, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated yearly by American taxpayers to help support our broken-ass state.

Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs a fortune to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.
Give a man a gun and he can kill a Palestinian child. Give him a helicopter and he can kill them all.
Part-time vacancies available:
We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers and sniper nests. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but yet have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower guard division.

We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.
Do it today.If anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite.
It worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are at an American University we are currently recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.

We can actively stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression -But only with your help!

Free housing.
In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!

We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.

Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!

If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!

Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your future residential developments on occupied land
with fully experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed
Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.

If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes and a view of the
Mediterranean, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated every year by American tax payers to help support our broken-ass state.
Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your contribution and support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs a fortune to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.

Give a man a gun and he can kill a Palestinian child. Give him a helicopter and he can kill them all.

Part-time vacancies available
We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers and sniper nests. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but yet have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower guard division.

We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.
Do it today.

P.s.
if anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite.
It worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!
If you are at an American University or further education college we are currently recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.

We can actively stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression.
-But only with your help!

Free housing.
In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!

We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.

Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!

If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!

Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your future residential developments on occupied land
with fully experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed
Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.

If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes and a view of the
Mediterranean, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated every year by American tax payers to help support our broken-ass state.
Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your contribution and support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs a fortune to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.

Give a man a gun and he can kill a Palestinian child. Give him a helicopter and he can kill them all.

Part-time vacancies available
We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.
The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers and sniper nests. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but yet have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower guard division.

We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.
Do it today.

P.s.
if anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite.
It worked for the Liberty.

Support ethnic cleansing in Palestine and help censor the American press!

If you are at an American University or further education college we are currently recruiting active censorship drones to spy on fellow students, lecturers and guest speakers on behalf of the Israeli government.

We can actively stifle democratic thought and criticism of Israeli fascist oppression.
-But only with your help!

Free housing.
In six short weeks we can show you how to build a rogue state by demolishing existing homes in Palestine and building new houses on top!

We are currently looking for experienced bulldozer drivers with a large western bank balance to emigrate to the expansionist state of Israel and call it home.

Simply choose a plot of land and start building! Its easy peesy!!

If your chosen plot is currently occupied by a Palestinian family, dont worry
-simply build over them!

Its as easy peesy as eeny meeny miney mo!

We can protect your future residential developments on occupied land
with fully experienced snipers in full body armour and appropriately armed
Apache helicopters kindly donated by the American public.

If you are an American citizen with a view to emigrating to warmer climes and a view of the
Mediterranean, you may also be eligible for a fraction of the 3,000,000,000 (yes thats 3 Billion!) dollars donated every year by American tax payers to help support our broken-ass state.
Due to our endless appetite for weapons of mass destruction our economy is unsustainable and we require your contribution and support. WMDs don't come cheap you know. It costs a fortune to terrorise a whole region.
Our military personnel can barely afford to maintain our arsenal of 200 nuclear weapons, spy satellites and attack submarines.

Give a man a gun and he can kill a Palestinian child. Give him a helicopter and he can kill them all.

Part-time vacancies available
We are currently in construction of the world record breaking apartheid wall surrounding the largest ethic ghetto since Krakow.

The Israeli military is hiring expatriates preferably with a military background to monitor the prisoners and maintain watchtowers and sniper nests. If you are blinded by a covetousness of other peoples land, but yet have a keen eye with a sniper scope you would be the ideal candidate for our border watchtower guard division.

We need your help. Sponsor an Israeli colonizer.

Do it today.

P.s.
if anybody criticises you, just point a finger an call them anti-Semite.

It worked for the Liberty.

Well that's an interesting position to put me, a college journalist, in. Look, even when journalists have the purest hearts and the best intentions, they can't possibly write down every aspect of a story, their editors might inadvertently change small things, and people may read the words they write differently than they intend.

The important thing is that whether you get your information from "established news sources," indymedia, blogs, your friends, The Daily Show, Slashdot or whatever, it's your responsibility to think about what you're hearing and seeing.

For those who don't trust the Washington Post or CNN, try
informationclearinghouse.info
capitolhillblue.com

I remember reading another article questioning the video on several details appearing on it. Such as: the people on it are too fat to be arabic fighters (how many of those with belly you've seen?). Their posture and actions were more western than arabic, etc.
Unfortunately I couln't find that any more. I did my best to search the Information clearing house archive, not finding what I searched but lots, and I mean lots of articles that makes me to be ashamed to be a westerner! (yeah, I'm not american).

Certain technologies have allowed regular people and small teams of journalists to quickly assemble video to create their own documentaries and news stories to counter slick corporate presentations, and the Internet has allowed us to access video stories from around the world that we'd be otherwise less likely to know about.

I think the new technology is impowering, but the important thing to remember is that with cameras and microphones everywhere, the record of what you do and what you say will be around for a very long time, if not forever.

Project for a New American Century Read it. Check out the authors. Draw your own conclusions. For the lazy /.ers, here is a key sentence:

'The United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein.'

Is this still war on terror, or is it just terror?

Oh, you want recent? What about the White House supporting the people who tried to orchestrate a Coup d'etat against the democracy in Venezuela? When the coup failed, President Chavez said that the CIA had involvement, with video.

Or how about when New Zealand said they didn't support war against Iraq, so the US shut them out of Free Trade talks, leaving Australia in instead?

Or what about the US' long laundry list of vetoes in the UN? What's the count, 35 resolutions concerning Israel vetoed by the US? Even being the sole dissenting vote in many cases. Of course this is abuse of the US' power, to please the Jewish and Christian Zionist voters back home. These weren't all binding, and some of them were common sense "S/17769/Rev. 1: Occupied Territories: Calls upon Israel to respect Muslim holy places." Why should the US, the supposed "peace broker" of the Middle East, block that, and stand as the sole vote againt?

Want more?

If you're interested in finding out more about the Carlyle group, there is a documentary made by the dutch tv program tegenlicht. The first two minutes is in dutch, the rest of the program is in english. Highly recommended.

That's not entirely true - otherwise we wouldn't have any use for ECC or parity. Computers can make "mistakes" in as much as data can be corrupted by physical processes that having nothing to do with the intended or programmed operation.

Technicalities aside, none of the election problems are about counting accuracy, neither human, nor mechanical, nor electronic. That's not the point. All measurements have an associated accuracy. It's how we deal with it that counts. If the margin of the election is of a size that given the error rate of the system there's a "reasonable" probability that the outcome is in error (1 sigma, 13% probability of error, say, given the error rate of the technology used) then a run-off election should be automatic, even if there's only two candidates in both elections. No matter what the voting technology. A 5% threashold would be statistically supportable.

All sampling systems have a margin of error. It's a 9th grade science mistake to get an F for submitting a graph of plant growth or whatever without any error bars. We seem to suffer from cognitive dissonance in refusing to admit there's an inescapable margin of error, and thereby not accommodating for it.

In 2000, FL and several other states should have held run-off elections between W and G after the first election found them at a "statistical tie". It's not clear which way it would have gone after that, but whoever thereby won would actually have been a democratically elected president, rather than one technically appointed by a divisive judicial coup.

Anyway, the critical failure regarding DREs is the lack of recognition that they are fallible. How do we deal with critical systems that might fail? We create an audit trail so if something goes wrong, we have a chance of undoing the error, or at least figuring out what failed and fixing it, and at the very least knowing that something did in fact go wrong so we can try again.

The systems shipped by Diebold and ESS etc are both intrinsically fallible and intrinsically inauditable, which is intolerable. Further, if a voter has reason to doubt the impartiality of a company that has, for example, pledged to deliver it's electoral votes to the republican in the next election to be run on it's own vote counting equipment, they might have some reason to doubt the veracity of the black-box tallying process and that undermines the authority of democracy. It is important, therefore, even if it were proven technically unnecessary, to provide voters with the familiar indicator of fairness provided by a human-readable, authoritative, tangible ballot.

We've gone through a lot of effort convincing ourselves, and by force much of the world, that having a brainwashed electorate choose one or the other corporate flack as titular head of the country is the best and fairest form of government on the planet (and it may well be, alas); at the very least we can apply basic 9th grade science to finding out whether tweedle dee or tweedle dum won the popularity contest.

Have you been in Iraq yourself or maybe your world view comes from right-wing websites who hate anyone questioning anything the president does?

This is why everyone hates the US and president Bush. First invading a country for reasons everyone in the world (at least the world outside of the US) know are false, then sending red-neck morons to do the job. A guy like that wouldn't even be allowed to do military service in Sweden. In the US he might well be elected President given he has enough money...

And Amnesty International where way bigger critics of the Iraq regime than the US has ever been, the differnce is that Amnesty International realises that killing people isnt really the way to solve a problem.

What, you mean this?

Come on. That whole thing was staged. You can tell by the shadows.

PHILADELPHIA -- January 6, 2003 (TomFlocco.com) -- On Friday, Philip J. Berg, attorney for 9-11 widow Ellen Mariani in her Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) suit seeking to hold President Bush and various government officials accountable for the September 11 attacks, served Bush and top officials in his Administration with a personal summons, the original complaint and the first amended complaint via a federal process server, as required by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

Among those served besides the President, were Vice-President Richard Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Attorney General John Ashcroft, Central Intelligence Agency Director George Tenet, National Security Advisor Dr. Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta, 9-11 Congressional Victim Compensation Fund Special Master Kenneth Feinberg, former Iraqi Dictator Saddam Hussein, Zacarias Moussaoui, and former President George H. W. Bush.

The legal documents were also filed at the Philadelphia office of United States Attorney Patrick Meehan, former Republican District Attorney from Delaware County, Pennsylvania.

Berg told TomFlocco.com "the multiple summonses and complaints were filed last week in Philadelphia; and they require an answer within 60 days," adding "we feel confident that we'll be successful, and that the evidence in this case is so strong, it will lead to the end of the Bush presidency."

-FL

It is well established that the US helped Iraq develop biological weapons back in the 80's when they were being treated as allies, including the shipment of anthrax. A quick search on Google turns up many reports of this. Here are but two:

http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/ussuppliedgerms. html

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38 87.htm

• Indescriminate and excessive use of force, and a shitload of other charges the US was guilty of according to the International War Crimes Tribunal.
• Several US companies supplying chemical weapons precursors to Iraq.
• Staged media event when toppling the saddam statue.
• US companies provided Iraq with the seed stock for biological weapons agents including anthrax, botulinum, e-coli and many more.

OMG that is shocking news..More information available here

SQ1.gif Shows people in the square beneath the (intact) statue of Saddam, but no tanks in the center itself. You cannot draw many inferences from this. Those could be plants and journalists. Could be Iraqi Saddam-haters. You just don't know.

SQ2.gif Shows a tank and several people in the square beneath the pedestal where the saddam statue once stood. The statue is no longer there. SQ2 was taken well after SQ1 as you can see from the amount of sunshine falling onto nearby buildings (like the mosque-looking building next to the square). In SQ1 there is no direct sunshine on any building. Tanks and humvees are visible surrounding the square..

SQ3.gif backs up in time to after the tank had arrived, but before anybody managed to climb to the top of the statue's pedestal. The resolution is too bad to tell who is a journalist, who is an Iraqi wanting to topple the statue, and who is just someone out to see the spectacle. Certainly some of the people seem to be standing as if they were journalists (honestly I can only find one who I am fairly certain is a photojournalist).

SQ4.gif shows a closeup of the statue with an American flag draped over Saddam's head and some Iraqi bystanders on the sidewalk across the street from the square.

I don't think these pictures tell a story different from what was broadcast around the world. I don't agree with information clearing house's interpretation of the facts. I see a group of Iraqi's who want to vandalize a statue which symbolized their oppression. The only possible media spin is crowd size. From these pictures the crowd looks to be in the 100-200 range. I think most people looking at the pictures would arrive at that number which is why the "they are clearly mostly journalists" argument comes up -- to downplay how many Iraqis might be there. However these pictures do not support that argument, the quality is simply inadequate to make such an inference.

I need better evidence to convince me that this was a staged scene.

SQ1.gif Shows people in the square beneath the (intact) statue of Saddam, but no tanks in the center itself. You cannot draw many inferences from this. Those could be plants and journalists. Could be Iraqi Saddam-haters. You just don't know.

SQ2.gif Shows a tank and several people in the square beneath the pedestal where the saddam statue once stood. The statue is no longer there. SQ2 was taken well after SQ1 as you can see from the amount of sunshine falling onto nearby buildings (like the mosque-looking building next to the square). In SQ1 there is no direct sunshine on any building. Tanks and humvees are visible surrounding the square..

SQ3.gif backs up in time to after the tank had arrived, but before anybody managed to climb to the top of the statue's pedestal. The resolution is too bad to tell who is a journalist, who is an Iraqi wanting to topple the statue, and who is just someone out to see the spectacle. Certainly some of the people seem to be standing as if they were journalists (honestly I can only find one who I am fairly certain is a photojournalist).

SQ4.gif shows a closeup of the statue with an American flag draped over Saddam's head and some Iraqi bystanders on the sidewalk across the street from the square.

I don't think these pictures tell a story different from what was broadcast around the world. I don't agree with information clearing house's interpretation of the facts. I see a group of Iraqi's who want to vandalize a statue which symbolized their oppression. The only possible media spin is crowd size. From these pictures the crowd looks to be in the 100-200 range. I think most people looking at the pictures would arrive at that number which is why the "they are clearly mostly journalists" argument comes up -- to downplay how many Iraqis might be there. However these pictures do not support that argument, the quality is simply inadequate to make such an inference.

I need better evidence to convince me that this was a staged scene.

SQ1.gif Shows people in the square beneath the (intact) statue of Saddam, but no tanks in the center itself. You cannot draw many inferences from this. Those could be plants and journalists. Could be Iraqi Saddam-haters. You just don't know.

SQ2.gif Shows a tank and several people in the square beneath the pedestal where the saddam statue once stood. The statue is no longer there. SQ2 was taken well after SQ1 as you can see from the amount of sunshine falling onto nearby buildings (like the mosque-looking building next to the square). In SQ1 there is no direct sunshine on any building. Tanks and humvees are visible surrounding the square..

SQ3.gif backs up in time to after the tank had arrived, but before anybody managed to climb to the top of the statue's pedestal. The resolution is too bad to tell who is a journalist, who is an Iraqi wanting to topple the statue, and who is just someone out to see the spectacle. Certainly some of the people seem to be standing as if they were journalists (honestly I can only find one who I am fairly certain is a photojournalist).

SQ4.gif shows a closeup of the statue with an American flag draped over Saddam's head and some Iraqi bystanders on the sidewalk across the street from the square.

I don't think these pictures tell a story different from what was broadcast around the world. I don't agree with information clearing house's interpretation of the facts. I see a group of Iraqi's who want to vandalize a statue which symbolized their oppression. The only possible media spin is crowd size. From these pictures the crowd looks to be in the 100-200 range. I think most people looking at the pictures would arrive at that number which is why the "they are clearly mostly journalists" argument comes up -- to downplay how many Iraqis might be there. However these pictures do not support that argument, the quality is simply inadequate to make such an inference.

I need better evidence to convince me that this was a staged scene.

SQ1.gif Shows people in the square beneath the (intact) statue of Saddam, but no tanks in the center itself. You cannot draw many inferences from this. Those could be plants and journalists. Could be Iraqi Saddam-haters. You just don't know.

SQ2.gif Shows a tank and several people in the square beneath the pedestal where the saddam statue once stood. The statue is no longer there. SQ2 was taken well after SQ1 as you can see from the amount of sunshine falling onto nearby buildings (like the mosque-looking building next to the square). In SQ1 there is no direct sunshine on any building. Tanks and humvees are visible surrounding the square..

SQ3.gif backs up in time to after the tank had arrived, but before anybody managed to climb to the top of the statue's pedestal. The resolution is too bad to tell who is a journalist, who is an Iraqi wanting to topple the statue, and who is just someone out to see the spectacle. Certainly some of the people seem to be standing as if they were journalists (honestly I can only find one who I am fairly certain is a photojournalist).

SQ4.gif shows a closeup of the statue with an American flag draped over Saddam's head and some Iraqi bystanders on the sidewalk across the street from the square.

I don't think these pictures tell a story different from what was broadcast around the world. I don't agree with information clearing house's interpretation of the facts. I see a group of Iraqi's who want to vandalize a statue which symbolized their oppression. The only possible media spin is crowd size. From these pictures the crowd looks to be in the 100-200 range. I think most people looking at the pictures would arrive at that number which is why the "they are clearly mostly journalists" argument comes up -- to downplay how many Iraqis might be there. However these pictures do not support that argument, the quality is simply inadequate to make such an inference.

I need better evidence to convince me that this was a staged scene.