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I use a 4th generation iPod Photo running Rockbox. I can play "Doom" on it too... ;-)

http://www.rockbox.org/

Using http://www.rockbox.org/ can give some older or failed (marketing-wise) players new life. Rockbox runs fine on the Gigabeat Fx0 :)

That's why my iPod is running Rock Box: http://www.rockbox.org/

If Apple open up the ipod and allow me to use it as a mass storage device with the ability to drag and drop non-DRM encumbered music from any OS and create my own playlists without installing their client software (and let's face it, if they dump DRM there's no reason for them not to), I'd buy a couple right now.

Because it's currently very expensive (or impossible?) to get chip decoders for OGG Vorbis, because of lack of demand.

That may have been true a few years ago, but most of the current Portable Media Players are more than capable of handling the decoding of OGG files and would be pretty trivial to add support to their players. I really think their is a more of a "politcal" reason for not supporting OGG files anymore (not sure what it is, but for some reason companies don't want OGG files catching on).

BTW: I just purchased a Sandisk Sansa e260 series player to be used with my entire collection of OGG Vorbis files - the trick is to simply install Rockbox on it to use instead of the crap firmware it comes with.

Install Rockbox on your iPod and your iPod will play FLAC.

Wikipedia about Rockbox.

Why wouldn't it be useful? People are even working on making Wikipedia offline available on your digital audioplayer.

It's called Rockbox, and it's an open source OS for media players. It's been ported to most of the popular ones, and some obscure ones. I run it on my Toshiba Gigabeat F40, and I can play any media type except WMA, including MPEG movies now, which was not a feature that Toshiba put on the Gigabeat. There's all sorts of plugins too.
Ever wanted to play Doom on your iPod? Rockbox comes with that too.
http://www.rockbox.org/

By design, but not for technical reasons, the iPod is not accessible to the blind nor the Deaf. Both RockBox and VoiceOver demonstrate, independently, paths to solving the first challenge. Captioning for video is an even easier fix that effects even more people. Apple only last month made iTunes accessible.

Er... iRiver players, iAudio players or try Rockbox. That page is really out of date. Anecdotal I know but their recent builds have been stable and the new root menu system is really bloody good. I like having a tag database on my X5L that I can update directly on the player and you get to customize most anything you want. I'm perfectly happy ripping new music with oggenc (more out of principle than anything else)

http://www.rockbox.org/

I hope I'm not mistaken, but if you're referring (hopefully) to Cowon X5's (and possibly M5's) there is alternative firmware for them that just entered into functional state, although still highly beta that would allow you to play AAC files on it. Same firmware that allows me to play the very same OGG files your Cowon plays natively on my iPod :D Incase you or anyone else is interested it's called RockBox at http://www.rockbox.org/ I've never used the Cowon version of RockBox, but it is quite liberating for the 4th gen Color iPod (mine) and the 30GB 5.5th Gen Video iPod (my sister's). Allowed me to give an older (and free because it was broken) iPod a second life...trust me, I wouldn't have considered owning it if I had to use that loathesome iTunes crap. My music collection is comprised mostly of MP3s I ripped personally (from before my knowledge of OGG files) and the remaing is of course, OGG files. So native iPod firmware wouldn't even have been an option with regards to the OGG files. Hope this was useful...

It would play AAC (plus many more formats) if you ran Rockbox on it...

I always wanted to run a custom Linux firmware on a Linksys WRT54G, but when I went to several stores, all I saw on the box was the model number, not the version number. Some versions are compatible, others have different hardware and are not, but all the boxes look the same. This is rather strange considering most versions (presumably the free software compatible ones) already run Linux by default! Why don't companies proudly advertise the fact that they run Linux and that it is hackable? Those are useful features! The same goes for zipit wireless messengers. All run Linux, but the manufacture released a new version that cryptographically locks out the ability to load the device with a custom firmware, so you need to modify the hardware if you want to use these neat and inexpensive little computers as pocket web browsers, ssh clients, ogg players, or other cool things like that. By default they are only useful as an IM device. Why do companies go out of their way to stop their users from improving their own hardware and in the long run, doing free development work for the company? Why don't corporations want essentially unpaid dedicated employees?

I also would love to have a media player that runs Rockbox, but various hardware is in different stages of rockbox support. It seams like there would be a significant market for products that advertise the fact that they work with free software firmwares right on the box. It's a shame that many industries view "proprietary" as a feature, as something developed uniquely and innovatively by one company. Anything proprietary should instead be suspect of being buggy because there is no way for the public to verify it's security, it probably has poor support for open standards, and it's probably feature limited and uncustomizable.

RockBox (http://www.rockbox.org/) made it to the list!
The alternative firmware for mp3 players was mentioned on slashdot several times: http://slashdot.org/search.pl?query=rockbox

but your iPod could... http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/Feature Comparison

ipod+rockbox+(line in | fm transmitter) = ogg in car

I haven't used the Apple software at all (either on the iPod or iTunes) after the first day using Rockbox on my Nano so I can't say whether it causes any conflicts, but I doubt it. You make a backup of all your original firmware files, and I've never heard of anybody bricking their player. I suppose it's possible, though. The folks over at the forum are really helpful if you have any questions.

There are some great features other than playing alternate formats. It comes with a ton of free games (I'm addicted to sodoku). You can drag files onto the iPod and it will play them without having to use iTunes. As you would expect there's also a ton of different themes available so you don't have to have the simple black/white Apple theme. I switched almost immediately after getting my Nano and haven't looked back. They have a great tutorial and the forums are helpful and newb friendly so it was a painless process getting it set up.

www.rockbox.org

Howtos are on the site.
You flash the bootloader (using a tool they provide), then extract the daily-built rar file to your iPod (which you have to have formatted and enabled for Windows USB Mass-Storage compatibility).
Then, just start copying your music to your iPod/harddrive in whatever format/directory structure you want.
AAC, MP3, FLAC, OGG, etc, all supported

The answer is Rockbox. Which you could easily have found on Google, even if your search query had just been alternative ipod firmware :)

Fair enough; I'm satisfied with foobar2000/BMPx and rsync. That said, it sounds like iTunes might work with Rockbox if you're willing to work on it. See this forum post.

I received an iPod as a Christmas gift, and was dismayed at the thought of returning it because my music is mostly Vorbis. Enter Rockbox. It's still a work in progress; battery life isn't as good as Apple's native firmware and video playback doesn't work, but it can play a wide array of formats and let me use the iPod the way I wanted to.

Might want to look at Rockbox open source replacement firmware for the ipod...
It has everything you asked for except for the battery.

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRock box

Support for over 10 Sound Codecs, including OGG and FLAC.
It runs off fat32 directory system and no database needed.

If you don't use Windows or Mac, I'm guessing you're a Linux user. If you're technically competent to use Linux as your primary OS, I doubt you'd have any trouble installing and using Rockbox, which is OSS that would make an iPod behave the way you want it to.

Of course, if you don't see any other advantages to iPods, then there's no point. A lot of people like their price/form factor/clickwheel/battery life/reliability/style/customer service.

Rockbox makes the device work exactly as you describe. As far as I know, it works on most modern Ipods. The exception is the absolute newest version of 'pod, 5.5, though as I understand it they've discovered the problem there and it should be fixed very shortly.

because http://rockbox.org/ has software to put in new firmware avoiding this big mess. I agree that it should just be usb mass storage device. This site can make that happen.

someone mod this up for "the peoples". I've hunted for something other then Apple's filename switching firmware for a while now. Easy drag and drop songs and delete/rename them from the ipod. There are even themes to make the ipod look like winamp or other skins from users.

rock box is like firefox for yer Ipod. Open code wins again!

Or Rockbox. I've never used iPod Linux, as I don't have an iPod, so I don't know how good it is, but I love Rockbox on my iriver H10.

Worth checking out, at least.

If you want drop and drop support stop complaining about the iPod and go buy a player that supports it.

A 2GHz PC can do the indexing and file organization a lot faster than an 80MHz iPod.

if Rockbox ever gets ported to it. The screen is nice, and the player itself has a nice, clean layout. But at the moment, Zune doesn't have gapless playback. Even the fracking iPod has that these days!

The software that runs an iPod is a separate product. I can download it here: http://www.rockbox.org/

Apple is tying their software to their hardware and forcing me to pay for it.

I think you mean Rockbox. Sure, the hardware isn't open-source but the firmware is. That's close enough.

The Neuros and any player that supports Rockbox (which includes iPods, incidentally).

http://www.rockbox.org/ + ipod?

um.. I've had alternative software on my nano for over a year now.

If the apple ipod was easy to hack and put a new OS onto there would have been people doing it and making a better ipod without any DRM. (They did it with other mp3 players, for some reason the ipod is either harder to work on or has some kind of locking on it..

They did it with the iPod as well:

http://www.rockbox.org/

Btw, even an unmodified iPod does play non-DRMed files (unfortunately, not ogg vorbis). ;-)

And so you hope the Zune player might be saved by third-party alternate firmware? I don't think so.

Hey, just so you know, the iPod is verrrrrry easy to hack. Check out iPodLinux and RockBox, two very different hacks for the iPod. I currently use RockBox on mine, and the only thing I ever switch back to the stock firmware for is video (which is very rare). It can play many more file formats, can look much prettier, can crossfade and do replaygain, and it can play Doom! So what if it's practically impossible to move around and shoot at the same time, it's still nifty. Plus, any time I feel like there's a feature missing or something can be improved, I can open up the source code and hack around to my heart's content.

The thing is, WMP 11 can sync with non-playsforsure players, just DRM'd files won't work, just as Apple DRM files won't work on anything but the iPod, though I've never seen iTunes sync with anything else without someone making a plugin. The simple answer to these problems: Don't buy DRM, or even just strip it, but thats beside the point.
I also never advocated the Zune, however, other players exist other than the iPod, sometimes people enjoy their right to exercise choice, I myself have a Rockboxed iriver, and while everone jumps at the chance to slag off anything Microsoft related, Apple aren't amazing themselves. I just wonder how long it will take before people tire of them aswell.

But he doesn't care about that shit, he wants 'copy *'. Virtually every MP3 player ever released since the first Rios support this feature. The iPod doesn't. In fact, it mangles the hell out of filenames DELIBERATELY to make this impossible to implement and to force you to use iTunes. And I personally have found showstopping bugs in all the iTunes replacements I've used in conjunction with iPods (On Windows anyway. Maybe on OSX there are replacements that work). I used to have an iPod mini. I loved it. But iTunes was like stabbing myself in the eye so I sold it and bought a Rio Karma because I wanted to drag n' drop files and crossfade is fscking awesome.

Since then I've learned about Rockboxhttp://www.rockbox.org/, which is an opensource firmware you can flash your iPod with that will make it not suck. You're probably still better off getting an iRiver player because it has better support for Rockbox.

Not that it's any use for iPods

You mixed Rhythmbox with Rockbox: Rockbox the replacement firmware project, http://www.rockbox.org/ and Rhythmbox, the GNOME iTunes-like player: http://www.gnome.org/projects/rhythmbox/

Can't wait for homebrew\open source firmware for the Zune.

Rockbox then?

I wonder if it's possible to install Rockbox on it.

Pfft Linux, Rockbox is where it's at for portable music players.

I have an iRiver with FM, and I use it all the time. Often I'm listening to NPR in my car and have to run in somewhere, so I just turn on my iRiver and put on my headphones and continue listening wherever I am. Or I turn it on and start it recording and listen to the rest of the program later (thanks to Rockbox)

Microsoft will fight that halo effect with everything they've got, even if they have to lost money on every single Zune. They make their money from Windows, and this is all about protecting the Microsoft market (and mind) share.

As an anti-Microsoft person, this is why I'm hoping that Rockbox can be ported to run on the Zune. That way, I can buy a Zune, get a great piece of hardware (MS is known for selling pretty decent hardware: mice, etc.) at an ultra-cheap price, cause MS to lose money by selling it to me below cost, and then run great software on it and play my Oggs, while never buying Windows or any other MS software.

It doesn't play Ogg at 100% speed yet, however rockbox does.

Will this thing be able to run Rockbox? Or a version of Linux, like iPodLinux? That's the only way I'd ever buy one of these, and then only if the price is really good. I won't buy a player without Ogg support.

I do have to give them credit for keeping the front of the device clear of any stupid logos or brand names. I don't see an ugly "Microsoft" logo or anything else there, just the screen and the controls. But the brown is horrid.

So Apple has finaly caught upto the free open source http://www.rockbox.org/ firmware with gapless play back. Excpet it needs to re-jig the files to make them gapless. Rockbox doesn't.

They added a search function much like the one that has existed in Creative (and others) players for a while.

The battery life on video play back has caught up with other players, although it does still lag behind quite a few.

If I remember correctly, the last keynote Job's took advertised the iPod as having 80~% market share. Now 75~%.

But we also know that the RockBox alternative firmware for iPod manages gapless playback of mp3 files just perfectly.
What gives?