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But probably they are just waiting for someone to publish a game titled 'Diplomacy' so they can sue them!

You don't have to buy these books to see what 4th is like. They are collectors items, fanboyish treatises... But, there is some cool stuff in these books. My solution was to have one member of our (Large) gaming group buy the books, and then we passed it around for a few weeks and all got a good look.

But, really, there isn't anything in the books you can't find either on ENworld or the official website (And, for a few months, D&D insider is free and you can see everything they post on.)

Alot of the issues commenters are bringing up have also been addressed, directly, by the R&D staff mixed in with the Gleemax Staff blogs.

So, here's where you ought to go if you're on the fence or curious. Then you can come back and contribute to the 4th ed discussion... because most of these comments have been dealt with by -someone- in R&D.

http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e Huge dump for 4th edition facts and rumors. http://preview.tinyurl.com/2fe6br Gleemax R&D Staff blogs. Alot of playtesting. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd The official page. Design and Development and Ampersand are really the informative columns. You need to sign up, but it's free, and wizzards forum accounts / Gleemax transfer over cleanly.

One of the longstanding problems of D&D compared to other systems is that it has always had a kind of weak and foolish system for determining the results and relevance of non-combat actions.

Then surely you'll be interested in this.

That quote on magic items substantialy pre-dates this design article. And that article does NOT fill me with hope, for reasons I addressed elsewhere in this thread.

Good for them for trying to address these points, and best of luck, but more important will be succeeding. I don't think they will, given the poor playtesting and general lack of well-tuned mechanics that have marked 3.5, but time will tell.

"Primary Slots: We've preserved a number of items that have traditional "plusses." Thes are the items we expect everybody to care about, and the ones that are factored into the math behind the game. If you're 9th level, we expect you to have a set of +2 armor, and the challenges in the game at that level are balanced accordingly. Here are the primary item slots:"

There are 3; weapon/impliment (think wand staff or rod), armor, neck (amulet or whathave you)

"Secondary Slots: These items don't have enhancement bonuses. That makes them essentially optional. You could adventure with no items in your secondary item slots and not see a huge decrease in your overall power. Take what looks cool, but don't worry about having empty slots."

There are more, but they claim you don't need them just to survive.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome&dcmp=ILC-DND062006FP

I think one of the major issues about D&D [in my opinion of course] is how stacking is handled. It's a telling sign that there is something amiss with a system when the developers post numerous articles on how to handle stacking [especially at higher levels] of enchantments, stat bonuses, and everything under the sun. Is the whole process going to be streamlined to reduce book thumbing during a secession? Or the inevitable arguments that might come around due to this? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040120a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040127a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040203a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040210a

I think one of the major issues about D&D [in my opinion of course] is how stacking is handled. It's a telling sign that there is something amiss with a system when the developers post numerous articles on how to handle stacking [especially at higher levels] of enchantments, stat bonuses, and everything under the sun. Is the whole process going to be streamlined to reduce book thumbing during a secession? Or the inevitable arguments that might come around due to this? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040120a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040127a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040203a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040210a

I think one of the major issues about D&D [in my opinion of course] is how stacking is handled. It's a telling sign that there is something amiss with a system when the developers post numerous articles on how to handle stacking [especially at higher levels] of enchantments, stat bonuses, and everything under the sun. Is the whole process going to be streamlined to reduce book thumbing during a secession? Or the inevitable arguments that might come around due to this? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040120a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040127a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040203a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040210a

I think one of the major issues about D&D [in my opinion of course] is how stacking is handled. It's a telling sign that there is something amiss with a system when the developers post numerous articles on how to handle stacking [especially at higher levels] of enchantments, stat bonuses, and everything under the sun. Is the whole process going to be streamlined to reduce book thumbing during a secession? Or the inevitable arguments that might come around due to this? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040120a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040127a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040203a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040210a

I have seen a lot of questions being posted here that have either been answered and archived at ENWorld.com or are not relevant to 4e as the system is getting a major overhaul, this is not a 2e shift to 3e, its far more radical than that... Link:
http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e

The WotC website has some info as well (will require a Digital Initiative free sign-up to view) here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome

If you want to hazard the nascent WotC forums and blogs @ Gleemax.com there are blogs by developers and they occasionally reply to 4e threads there. Link (uses same DI login from main site above):
http://www.gleemax.com/Comms/Login/Default/default.aspx
Warning: WotC is trying to reinvent the wheel and this site is "Alpha," so be prepared for some frustration navigating around it.

For a consolidated list of developer blogs, link here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/community

And for the proto-blogs on the old forum system they used during and after GenCon before the Gleemax blog system:
http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=684

In Service,
~~Saracenus
Real Daleks do not climb stairs, they level the building instead.

I have seen a lot of questions being posted here that have either been answered and archived at ENWorld.com or are not relevant to 4e as the system is getting a major overhaul, this is not a 2e shift to 3e, its far more radical than that... Link:
http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e

The WotC website has some info as well (will require a Digital Initiative free sign-up to view) here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome

If you want to hazard the nascent WotC forums and blogs @ Gleemax.com there are blogs by developers and they occasionally reply to 4e threads there. Link (uses same DI login from main site above):
http://www.gleemax.com/Comms/Login/Default/default.aspx
Warning: WotC is trying to reinvent the wheel and this site is "Alpha," so be prepared for some frustration navigating around it.

For a consolidated list of developer blogs, link here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/community

And for the proto-blogs on the old forum system they used during and after GenCon before the Gleemax blog system:
http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=684

In Service,
~~Saracenus
Real Daleks do not climb stairs, they level the building instead.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=retailer/support/news25b

That has already been answered[1]. 20 is always a crit (no confirmation needed), but it won't double the damage any more.

[1] http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20080104&pf=true

When GURPS did their 4th edition, one of the things that they took great pains at was to maintain a strong degree of backward compatibility (given a free PDF of conversion notes) so that the stacks of GURPS 3e books out there would not become useless. Hero System did much the same with 5th edition. When 3rd edition of D&D came out, none of the books really fit into the new game except for purposes of back-story, but 3.5 did work fairly well with 3.0 with some work.

Is Wizards of the Coast planning on maintaining enough backwards compatibility so that all of the dozens of 3.0 and 3.5 books out there can be used with 4e, or will we be faced with the daunting expenditure of re-buying our entire libraries?

Venser admired his handiwork and smiled. His first prototype had joined with the hive mind all too well, running with the brood and becoming a predator itself. This one, he thought, would be accepted into the hive but still obey his commands.

Well, there's always this guy (on the left in the first picture. Old high school friend. Biggest nerd I've ever known (in a non-tech sense). Nice guy, but don't expect him to speak about anything but MtG. His wife works at Wal-Mart, last I heard, and he's in a factory. Never had a lot of money, just a lot of time, and but in the MtG circles and what not he's a family name. Does very well. I don't know if he's been tournamenting lately. We get him out on the paint ball field once or twice a year and, thankfully, the card game/obsession rarely comes up during those excursions.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20071019&authentic=true

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20071019&authentic=true&pf=true

Enjoy.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20071019&authentic=true

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20071019&authentic=true&pf=true

Enjoy.

There are D&D tournements at gaming conventions all the time. Look into the RPGA.

Maybe Wizards should have considered switching to Apache HTTPD instead of using Microsoft IIS before launching a campaign that gets more than half a dozen hits per second. Let's give them the message:

http://www.wizards.com/use_apache_httpd ;-D

They should just make a TCG that you can play. Not in NeverRest. If your playing EQ then you want to play EQ. If you want to play a TCG then play Magic already.

It'll make the passengers feel more comfortable, having their plane flap it's wings!

You mean like an ornithopter?

Take a look at the preview. I don't know a lot about point buy, but the saga edition replaces class traits with talent trees. If I understand them correctly, once you have access to a certain talent tree, you can progress up that tree no matter what class you take levels in. The article has lots of examples of very flexible multiclass characters, like a jedi who grew up on the streets and has mostly scoundrel characteristics with specialized complementary jedi abilities.

Best way for kids to learn how to program is a simple game.

ROBORALLY!

You "program" your robot with cards from your hand placed in a certain order. A turn proceeds and the cards are executed. If all goes well, you hit waypoints, and blast a few other robots to dust on the way.

This guy is pretty dead on. I laugh at when I hear the phrase "Think outside the box". Any hack can do that, but in the end all you get is garbage because they were preoccupied with the box and how to avoid it. A true innovator comes up with a whole new box to think inside of. Here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/ mr66 is another excelent artical along the same lines by Marc Rosewater of Wizards of the Coast.

Actually, you don't NEED any books at all. The d20 and d20 modern System Reference Doccument is avaliable for free off the WotC site. There's also a html copy at http://www.d20srd.com/ which is pretty nice.

If you've got an even remotely creative DM, (s)he can fill in the few gaps the rules leave (ie: character stat generation, XP and $ rewards) pretty easily.

This said by a man who owns a "tub of books" that's half my body weight...

DnD was very innovative for its time. Never Winter Nights is a computer game that is very true to the d20 system. There have been many computer game adaptations of DnD but I believe that NWN should be recognized as innovative in how it incorporates elements of a TPS style game, like Diablo II, and still be true to the turn based format of DnD.

They sure did figure out how to recreate it, only you might not want to watch for it in the sky

Fuck Google. Wizards of the Coast is the coolest place to work at for a nerd. - Nihil

Better drawing.

With stats, even.

In terms of board games, Wizards of the Coast only a small handful of games.

Of the 10 that were listed by the Morning News article, only one is made by Wizard's board game division, Avalon Hill.

Wizards does do quite a few card games though.

Ohhh, so you're the guy who keeps ordering Neopets.

First I thought of then I read "rpg" & "blue dragon" was this thing at Wizards of the Coast:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndm in/957890000A

I'm very interested in new massively multiplayer content, and I think the world of Firefly would be fantastic to play in. I have a lot of reservations however. Here is an open letter to all MMO developers:

Dear MMORPG developers,

I am a recovered Everquest player. I spend hours staring into the face of my spellbook. Dealing with 'downtime', struggling to find the game within the game. Please do not copy the dreadful time sinks that have plagued this once promising genre of games.

I now have a hard and fast rule for my games. If I am 'playing' your game, and I run/fly/do nothing for 10 minutes in a row, I uninstall your game. If it happens in the first few hours of gameplay, I return it.

This is an article written by Dr. Richard Garfield, game enthusiast, and designer of the card game Magic: the Gathering

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/ rg1

Please think this issue over. I look forward to playing a game that works to entertain me, not throw up obstacles that prevent me from playing.

Thanks,
Greg

Let it not be said that MtG taught us nothing.

Hello, I'd like to introduce you to a game that generates thousands of dollars in sales daily (if not tens of thousands of dollars in transactions). That game is Magic Online.

Everyone here is commenting about WoW or EQ or AC, but this seems like small potatoes. People spend thousands of dollars to buy Virtual Cards in Magic Online. Of course, a virtual cottage industry has burdgeoned: dealers and independents operate on-line stores, complete with trading bots.

All of these bots effectively operate at a profit, which can net lots of "tix" (one online USD) for the seller. Of course, these tix need to be converted into actual dollars which is where e-bay comes in again.. Tix sell for an average of 90 cents on the dollar (to accomodate ebay and pay-pal fees). Many others offer tix for sale via Paypal directly from within the game, which cuts back on fees, but drastically increases fraud.

Add to this Wizards' "real-life to virtual life" stop-gap. Anyone who collects a complete set of on-line cards can cash in that set of cards for a real set of cards. This was done with good intentions, but dealers can profit from these intentions by converting their virtual card collections into real cards. Collecting a set can be difficult, but dealers can benefit from having a larger scale.

This means that sets sold in cash can go from virtual to pocket completely un-noticed, heck they were never even on the balance sheets.

Add to this that players play tournaments on-line. All of the prize is given out in product. But when winning a big 90-man tourney gets you two boxes of virtual cards (3.69 * 36 * 2 ~ $265), this is not an insignificant amount.

Given the above info that this stuff has cash value, I think that Wizards of the Coast (owned by Hasbro) has done quite well not only dodging the IRS, but also dodging all of the on-line attention. Collecting $600 for a WoW character is nothing compared to some bot-run Magic stores that profit in the hundreds per month.

"The notion of crushing my friends via online cards a la MTG is one that brings a smile to my face."

Then, er, play Magic Online!

It's also interesting that the wealth of source material written by the excellent contributors to the West End Games version is still actively bought and sold on eBay - that stuff never really loses its utility.

What's incredibly disappointing about the WotC acquisition of the SW license is that they've seemingly bought themselves out of the market - they haven't published a new book for the system since 2004 (though there are indications that at least one more book will come out in 2007).

Don't forget the famous settlers of Catan from Germany, as well as for sale and bohnanza. All spectacular games in their own right - the first through pure strategy - the second two through haggling. Citadels is also a fun little game, rife with strategy particularly through guessing about opponents. My wife, myself and our couple friends play these games fairly frequently.

I wouldn't say Americans haven't created great games (balderdash & stratego come to mind), but more so Americans haven't in a long time. Americans aren't alone though - the best the Japanese have done recently is stuff like Pokemon & Yu-Gi-Oh.

Instead Americans have been busy with other great games. /sarcasm

"C'mon kids, I know a place we can play 'magic'. Lets go to the bathroom... I'll show you my Big Furry Monster"

Magic world championship

It looks likes it's only 50,000 - but that's understandable given the somewhat smaller player base/television exposure/connections to real-money-gambling/etc...

Many posters have mentioned their hesitance towards digital goods and their intent to ignore purely digital content. Though I applaud your desire for continued use of hard goods, I do not believe that digital goods should simply be ignored as the potential value is far too great.

To wit, check out Magic: the Gathering Online.

As a quick background M:TG (AKA Magic) is a collectible card game. So it is a card game, with its own set of base rules, and each card has its own text indicating its "rules". In addition, it is collectible: cards come in randomized packs and and boxes.

New sets are produced quarterly, and the game is the ultimate cash cow, with a massive secondary market. With some cards going for over $1,000 dollars and others regularly trading for around $20, these pieces of cardboard have some serious value. So how do you bring that on-line?

Magic's makers (Wizards of the Coast) had many battles to fight (pricing, value of digital cards, premium cards, etc.) But in the end, the online is hugely successful. Many Magic players maintain both regular and online card collections. But the game has also opened up to other players. Players from small communities, remote locations, players with families and unusual work shifts, etc. The on-line community has its own timelines, some unique play formats and tournaments and its always accessible.

So how did they price it? Product costs the same online as their MSRP in stores. Online has its own secondary market, but the same basic price going in to the system. Indeed, people are paying the same price for digital goods!

The Point? Why would I pay money for digital product? B/c it's worth my money! I get lots of play time out of Magic Online. Tediums like card sorting and deck building are drastically reduced. Wizards actually used the digital medium to add value to their product.

When the media industries decide to use digital mediums to add value to our purchases they will secure more business. iTunes makes sales on the basis that they add the value of simplicity and selection: pick these songs, drop them on your iPod, play them on your computer, get new ones instantly, no CDs, no lines, no problem. Sure, some of this reasoning may be specious, but the people who feel this way are the people buying songs from iTunes.

These people make sacrifices in quality and hard media for all of these other perks, just like the Magic players eschew the real cards for the ability to play more with the cards they have online.

Once movies are better on my HDD than on a DVD, then I will move to that media. Many of the digital features of music do not carry the same weight for movies. Having an iTunes for movies would be "cool", but it's far less useful for movies than music. A reduced-quality audio recording is sufficient for most of the places we listen to music: in a car with stock speakers, on a bus with average headphones, in a room with a boom-box, etc. But a reduced-quality video is insufficient for my Home Theatre. Ease-of-use and sound/image quality is a major DVD feature, I don't see how low-quality digital is going to provide me with enough redeeming features to eschew my hard copy.

So until DVDs are better on my HDD, I plan to keep buying second-hand DVDs from the movie store.

The full rules are already available online, legally.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/s rd35

You don't need these. Aside from the lovely consept art, most of the D&D content can be found in the SRD (System Reference Document). Which encompasess the core rulebooks, as well as some of the fringe 3.5 content (Psionics, Divine feats, etc) You can download it in chunks or the whole thing. They are in unencumbered RTF files. Totally free too! In Wizard's own words, here is the missing content from the SRD: Q: What's missing from the SRD compared to the core D&D rulebooks? A: Mostly the "flavor" elements. There are no named gods, none of the spells have significant NPC names, there's no mention of Greyhawk, etc. You'll also note that there are no rules for character creation, for advancing characters in level, calculating experience, or anything else related to the topics forbidden by the d20 System Trademark Guide. Here is the D&D SRD: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/s rd35 Here is the D20 Modern SRD (MSRD): http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/m srd

You don't need these. Aside from the lovely consept art, most of the D&D content can be found in the SRD (System Reference Document). Which encompasess the core rulebooks, as well as some of the fringe 3.5 content (Psionics, Divine feats, etc) You can download it in chunks or the whole thing. They are in unencumbered RTF files. Totally free too! In Wizard's own words, here is the missing content from the SRD: Q: What's missing from the SRD compared to the core D&D rulebooks? A: Mostly the "flavor" elements. There are no named gods, none of the spells have significant NPC names, there's no mention of Greyhawk, etc. You'll also note that there are no rules for character creation, for advancing characters in level, calculating experience, or anything else related to the topics forbidden by the d20 System Trademark Guide. Here is the D&D SRD: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/s rd35 Here is the D20 Modern SRD (MSRD): http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/m srd

Some of your rant seems to be a little misinformed. Beyond what others have already pointed out...

> WoTC tried to duplicate that by soliciting submissions from everyone and creating a new line
> based on their original home grown idea. They had judges, a competition, etc. I'm surprised
> Fox didn't air it. Forgotten Realms was far from dead, and many continued to enjoy playing
> in it. They decided to abandon what was working

FR is far from dead - WotC has by no means abandoned it, and it just makes you look silly to claim otherwise. Take a look at the upcoming products - most are generic, one is FR-specific, and one is Eberron-specific. That's pretty typical.

Just because Eberron has been added doesn't mean FR has been removed. Classic false dilemma fallacy.

I would start here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/welcome

Good luck, and happy gaming.