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Dmitry Protests Running
Tom writes "the US-wide protests against Adobe and Dmitri Sklyarov's arrest in LA last week are running at full speed. eastcoast protests have already posted pictures - here from New York and here from Saint Paul.
More protests are running right now, or scheduled for later today. meanwhile, Adobe has pulled a "we did nothing wrong" press release from their webpage that they put up earlier today. and EFF is meeting with adobe representatives, expected end of talks: around noon PST." Imagine if IBM had arrested the people who cloned BIOS. What an amazing change the world has gone through in just a few short years. Way to go Adobe. In the future the bigger company will just arrest the smaller company's CEOs for competing. That can't be legal. Worst of all, our taxes are footing the bill.
Update: 07/23 7PM EDT by C :In response to Sklyarov's arrest, an online pettition has been started. If you would like to let others know your stance on the arrest and the DMCA issues in general, then feel free to add your name to the already grouing list.
oops
Adobe has been playing "Snake Oil" salesman to would-be eBook publishers for a while now. They have included marketing claims about the degree of accessablity an end user could have to the eBook content. But, much like other forms of snake oil, the sales pitch has nothing to do with the actual technical capablities of the product. It is Adobe that has committed the crime of fraud against the authors of eBook material. But, since Dmitri provided a proof of concept of fraud that could provide fair use access to 25% of an eBook (note that he easily could have made 100% available), the fraud machine at Adobe has decided to make Dmitri pay for their crime. Isn't America great? Now, even corprations can make Russians take the blame for crimes committed by America!
No one is saying that companies shouldn't be allowed to sue. The "criminal" bit is the whole frickin' point. Duh.
Flame me because this will be AC and I can't find my password, but kzinti is right! WTF Slashdot???
Listen -
You want to make a real protest? Something Adobe will feel? They don't care, really about some protesters in various cities - odds are most of them aren't even Adobe customers, beyond freeware copies of Acrobat Reader, right?
So how about if those of you in the position to, offer bounties/recruitment bonuses/ or just plain jobs to anyone from Adobe Corp. who wants to leave?
At least help ethical coders migrate to a decent shop, but hey, let's help anyone who want to leave the company, ok?
Now that, folks, is a protest that will have thier Board of Directors meeting as soon as it appears to be real.
The digital medium is inherently incompatible with old-style business models based on the sales of hard goods. The DMCA is a cheap hack to remedy the incompatibility and it shows in the absurdity of the applications of the law. Linking is a crime? Reverse engineering is a crime? I can take apart any product I want to and study it except software?
Those who embrace this repressive approach to securing profits do not deserve the benefits of living in this country which for all its problems is still a pretty good place to live. Sadly it's going to take quite a fight to round up and terminate the bad guys.
But if we in the same situation today... even if Compaq developed an independent BIOS through (then) legal backward engineering the Compaq engineers would be locked up. What would be of the PC today if that had happened?
Backward engineering was a genuine approach before, obviously you couldn't develop new products from secretly obtained information either through poaching IBM engineers or stealing manuals. However you could take a product, measure it's inputs, outputs and functionality then independently develop a product based upon those readings, thanks to the DCMA this is no more however. Hence less competition.
If this isn't stopped, companies will soon be able to argue that posession of a screwdriver is illegal because it could be used to open (and crack) a proprietary device. This country is fscked.
That's not the press release. You can read the press release at http://www.lethe.com/dmca.htm
Actually, there were two stories mentioning the protests on the front page. Maybe the fact that the EFF wanted the protests to be put on hold might of affected turnout.
Duh...
Hetz (Heunique)
...in front of Adobe HQ. About 40-45 protesters are here, despite hot weather and EFF's advice to put protests on hold.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
-E
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
Really?
I'm not talking about legalities here, but practicalities. People just don't, as a general rule, track down the particular employees who implemented a bad decision that management made and sue them with the company -- the management will be sued long before the programmers. At least, I haven't seen it done.
I've seen several lawsuits between large companies -- McAfee and Symantec, Microsoft and others -- over infractions comitted most directly by the actions of programmers. However, in all these cases I haven't seen a coder charged. It may be legally possible, but unless the coder was quite obviously knowingly and willfully went along w/ his orders w/o question, I haven't seen charges brought.
Yes, the coder is liable -- but usually, the coder doesn't get charged, even if he is.
And you're right -- in some cases, the employer isn't liable. It depends on the existance of an agency relationship, and basically hinges on whether the coder did the act as part of his job. There's also a strong distinction between an independant contracter (who usually will be sued) and a cog-in-the-mill coder under direct supervision of his employer (in which case there's much less question that, should the coder be found guilty, the employer can too -- so there's less need to reduce risk by suing the coder as well as his employer, which is where the money is anyhow).
However, I'm not a lawyer either; I've just sat in enough law classes to have some small fraction of a clue.
the question was asked and answered on the free-sklyarov mailing list - the logos on the webpage were made with Beos - no adobe software involved.
(the signs at the protests were obviously hand-drawn.)
in other news: adobe lost almost 1% at the stock exchange today.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
> Anyway, I wish I had known there was a protest
> in St. Paul. That would have been "Stuff that
> Matters," at least for me.
several of us (i.e. members of the free-sklyarov mailing list) tried to submit stories, but mine was the only one accepted.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
as I said: the free-sklyarov mailing list is a source of TONS of info. currently carrying around 300 messages per day. I think most of the organizers actually are on the list. there's also a low-volume announcement list if 300 msgs is a little heavy for you. I think links and info about both lists are on the boycott adobe webpage.
/., to my representatives and by talking to my friends and co-workers.
as for me - I'm several thousand miles away from all of this, but I do what I can by writing. to
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Just an FYI, if you're ever in Afghanistan, don't mention that you run an Internet porn site or you may find yourself on death row there.
I didn't say it was a GOOD idea.
I said it was an idea, much like what your Montana Milita did in the early 90s. You can also print your own money like they did and drive around with no plates on your cars.
Or you simply don't work and thus have no income to be taxed.
It was an idea, not a good one.
I know it's bad.
:)
It's from NASA. Email me and I'll give you the full story.
There's a defunct military school in Virgina that has both translations on it's documents.
I'd post my standard reply that I have at home, but it's at home
If your local or Federal reps don't do what you want, vote against them.
Organize against them.
From working with people, I'll make the statement that a "person" is smart, but people are stupid. People decide things like "Hitler would make a good Chancellor." Or "Windows is a really good OS for our workplace."
I vote, and I'm of the mind that if you don't vote, you don't get to bitch about what happens.
Every vote counts, except in Florida.
The same way that Abortion, Gun-Control, Salmon, Education, Roads, and Drunk-Driving Laws are.
Get a group togeather, form a non-profit and send out nasty letters to anyone that will listen. Bitch and moan loud enough and people will listen.
In the late 1970s in the US, there was little enforcment of drunk-driving laws. It's because of a grass-roots effort by MADD that things happened.
In the early 1980s people (including my Mother) bitched and whined loud enough in Eugene OR that the U.S. Department of Defense didn't place a radio tower in the town. Yes...some hippies in Eugene stopped the DoD during the Cold War, if they can do that...don't tell me that you can't DMCA a campaign issue.
I've not followed the case outside of the headlines I've seen here, but I'm going to comment on the "taxes footing the bill".
The reason our (Americans) taxes are footing the bill is because it's a Federal Issue, not a local or state government issue. And also remeber that as a Corporation, Adobe is also paying taxes...and thus they are also footing the bill.
If you don't want your Federal Taxes going to things like the FBI...you have a number of alternatives.
1. Don't pay your taxes.
2. Move somewhere that doesn't subscribe to DMCA or whatever idiotic agreement Adobe is using to justify this to the Federal Government.
3. Vote in Local and Federal Elections
4. Don't support the companies that do this kind of thing.
Adobe is a bunch of fucking capitalists. Nobody pisses as happily on "intellectual property rights" as red China.
--
That's me and the sign I made. I agree, the lettering is crude.
And it can certainly be improved in many other ways. Consider it
Box-on-a-stick version 0.0.1 Beta, and let's take it from there.
My first question is, what is the best way to make large posters
using tools found under Linux (I don't have any other OS handy.)
Is there anyone in town (NYC) with a large format printer that
is willing to run things off for me? (Kinko's wants $10 per
square foot!) I will happily parade the result around the city.
My second queston: Given that there are 4 panels, should
they have the same message, or more than one? How can I make
it clearer?
And third: do we take a credibility hit if the work looks like
it came out of photoshop?
For the record, I gave out a couple of hundred flyers to people
who had never heard of the DMCA before. I chose a mile of 6th
ave as my route to and from the demonstration. Tens of thousands
of people have seen the words "Down with DMCA" and "FREE Dmitry!"
And that's all I was after. Could it have been done better?
Of course! But it was done. What did you do?
--
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
--
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
Where and when are the other protest? I live in Seattle, and would love to protest, is there a main organiztion that scheduled the protests?
"think of it as evolution in action"
Huh? If someone publishes a piece of text as a PDF, it can be copied precisely simply by someone just transcribing it off of the screen.
Written language is digital. Letters do not appear on a continuum, but are discrete - otherwise there would be something in between an A and a B that was a letter in itself.
Digital copies are nothing new under the sun.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Come on, I have no problem with being provocative and opinionated, but at least back that up a little bit. I mean, it doesn't even follow from the story. A comment like, "Maybe one day we'll all be under coporate survelence to ensure that we don't tell our friends that Ovaltine* decoder rings will let them access everybody's bank accounts," would at least have been on topic. I wish I could say this is a new low, but at now that I think about it, slashdot's always been about like this.
At least it's spelled corectly and uses correct grammar. Oh, wait, no, it doesn't! The smaller company only has one CEO.
Anyway, I wish I had known there was a protest in St. Paul. That would have been "Stuff that Matters," at least for me.
Yes, I'm still a junky. Are you still a bitch?
Well, I hate the loss of sovereignty that comes with internationalism and I also detest the DMCA. Perhaps it's one of the things that can wake up the populace of Europe. Most Europeans seem to think international law is the cat's meow.
That's what I thought too. And then I thought, "Wuh hell, running is one of the best things he could have done.
In the cases involving the Corvair, Silent Spring, and the Firestone tires/Ford Explorers, the corporate world did attempt to silence the whistler blower. However, their attempts failed because each involved risks (i.e., death, injury) to the general public. In each instance, Congressional hearings were conducted, and ultimately, the dangers were publicized. Furthermore, there were people in positions of power/influence who gave their support against the attempt at corporate whitewash that was made.
In your last example, the Executive branch (President, not the Pentagon) attempted to suppress the publishing of the Pentagon Papers by the NYT (and later, by the Washington Post). The issue was not the true death count in Vietnam unless you mean Vietnamese deaths; the US casuality rate was known. Remember, the Pentagon Papers detailed the U.S. strategy for this conflict, and the Executive Branch claimed that the release of this information would compromise national security.
The U.S. Supreme court then enjoined the NYT to stop publication of this information. Fortunately, the Washington Post (led by their publisher Katharine Graham) decided that they would publish in defiance of the Executive branch. Eventually, the Supreme Court ruled that prior restaint was not valid in this case, National security was not compromised, and that the government needed strong reasons before there could be a lessening of freedom of speech by the press.
Lessons to be learned: I see no big clamor for Congressional hearings, the DMCA does not involve public safety, and it's nice to have powerful friends who believe in your cause. Finally, the Supreme Court has generally ruled that the burden of proof falls on those that would like to abridge freedom of speech. The DMCA will only be around until the Supreme Court gets a chance to rule on this POS.
And as I understand from a coworker, IBM successfully sued some vendors who just cloned pieces of the bios outright. IBM intentionally put in prom code that did nothing (useful), and when the cloners copied that mindlessly, they were caught.
Doesn't matter anyway...any taxes that Adobe pays come out of the pockets of its customers. Adobe itself doesn't take any losses as a result except perhaps that their prices aren't quite as competitive as a result.
--
Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
Fair enough. But the main difference is that as an individual, you get paid in exchange for the time and effort you expend on the company's behalf. Taxes against you are the same as taxes against your labor, which means that some of your labor goes to the government.
Whereas a company acts as the mechanism by which your efforts (and the efforts of many others) are converted into money -- when the company itself "pays taxes", it does so by charging a correspondingly higher price for its goods in order to offset the tax. And the end result is that its customers end up paying more, meaning that those people that (either as individuals or collectively as companies) purchase goods from your company must expend greater amounts of labor to afford your goods than they would without the tax.
So in the end, it really does go back to the individual, and it is ultimately the individual that pays, one way or another.
Point being that it makes no sense to me to say that a company "pays taxes" and is thus somehow equivalent to individuals in that regard. It's not the same thing at all -- the company itself isn't penalized by the payment of taxes except in terms of how doing so affects its ability to compete, and even in that case it's only in relative terms (relative to how much in the way of taxes its competitors have to pay).
--
Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
An interesting point, except that its wrong.
If you're going to bitch about the quality of slashdot, at least try and read the main page articles.
Where was Slashdot when these protests were
being planned on the free-sklyarov list, when
the Slashdot publicity might have generated
even greater turn-out? Hemos mailed one of the
list members to say that Slashdot wasn't covering it
because no one had submitted a good enough story.
Excuse me? Did I hear that right? The Slashdot
editorial staff that has enough free time to cover opening
day at every half-assed movie of the summer
doesn't have enough time to cover the organization
of the Anti-DMCA protests, and is just sitting
around waiting for someone else to submit
a "good enough" story?
What about "Stuff That Matters"? If this issue
doesn't matter - then what does? Are you guys
too busy planning your coverage if the opening
of "Planet of the Apes" later this week?
--Jim
Where was the Slashdot story on "Free Dmitra / Anti-DMCA protests scheduled at the following times, following places..."? Where was the Slashdot headline "Protests Go On Without EFF"? Slashdot should have been out front on this one, not trailing along behind like the news services.
If you would bother to READ the free-sklyarov mailing list you'd see other people saying the same thing: "Where is Slashdot?"
It's ignorant morons like you that post kneejerk followups without bothering to actually READ anything that junk up slashdot with useless comments.
Asshole.
You're original statement said that /. didn't cover anything at all
Actually, I didn't say that. I said that Slashdot was missing in action during the planning of the protests - that they didn't follow the free-sklyarov list and that Hemos was waiting for someone else to submit a "good enough" story. Hemos made that comment Monday, long past the time that Slashdot should have been writing its own stories about the protests and when and where they were scheduled. They didn't have that information Friday because it was in flux over the weekend. I stand by what I said: Slashdot should have taken the lead on this story.
Stop bitching and become part of the solution.
I've already donated $100 to EFF to support their work on the case. I challenge you and everybody else posting here to give them at least as much. Give what you can, or give till it hurts, but give something. This is important.
--Jim
IBM would have pressed charges. Thats why they took the clean room approach.
The important difference is that with current legislation 'Merkins aren't even allowed to do a clean-room implementation if the original is stored in ROT-13...
--
Here in Chicago I got email today about the noon protest(s), which the EFF had announced in previous days was "on hold." Alas I got busy putting together a couple of new machines ande didn't see the email until the protests were over, so while I was all set last Friday to take a couple of hours off around noon-time and join the protests, I ended up missing them altogether as a direct result of the EFF's notice to hold off. I am understandably quite annoyed.
... they almost certainly expected this outcry when they had Dmitry arrested, and this action to diminish any protests was almost certainly calculated for just that effect. What is annoying is the EFF's role in taking that bait hook, line, and sinker.
...
The EFF's conduct (disclaimer: I am a paying member of the EFF) in this aspect of the entire issue was unhelpful, to say the least. Which is probably exactly what Adobe intended by scheduling the talks for today, while Dmitry rots in an undisclosed jail somewhere.
Adobe's attourney-goons and PR droids aren't stupid
The appropriate approach would have been to continue the call for protests and have the protests go on while negotiating. This is typically what is done by other groups, Unions, etc. Caving before-the-fact and calling off protests just to get the other side to the negotiating table is not how one goes about strengthening one's hand, or one's cause
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Excuse my ignorance of the law here, but he's Russian; is he still protected by the constitution?
--Cycon
Your Brain + EEG + LEGO Robots = Brainstorms
I could only count about 5-8 in the NY shots. Oh boy ...
- sigs are for wimps.
I missed the protest, but I did get a chance to put up a bunch of posters. Do what you can to help.
--
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
Adobe is wrong when they call Elcomsoft's product a digital lockpick. I believe their choice of analogy indicates their malice in this situation. A better analogy is one of a "digital cart" or a "digital dolly". Adobe's product, by design, makes a user's files cumbersome to move and difficult to work with. Like a file-cabnet or a heavy safe. Elcomsoft has provided something to make moving file cabinets and heavy safes easier.
Someone can use a dolly or a cart to steal a safe or a filecabinet, but that doesn't make the manufacturer of the cart or dolly a theif!
By this logic, I bet Adobe CEO John Warnock doensn't even have locks on his doors at home - his house is perfectly secure as long as passersby act legally. What a wonderful, utopian world he lives in - I wish my neighborhood was like that :)
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Well, I don't think they should be allowed to sue. The criminal bit wasn't the whole frickin' point when it was Emmanuel Goldstein being sued, remember. The law is wrong, whether it results in a civil trial or a criminal prosecution.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
I'm not opposed to the normal civil trial process, I'm just opposed to this particular law. I wouldn't want to be in prison either, but on the other hand the tremendous civil penalties that losing a DMCA civil suit would bring could also ruin your life. The fact that you can now get arrested for violating this stupid, stupid law is secondary, in my mind, to the fact of the law's existence at all.
You're probably correct that in this case the human rights problem is much greater than the information rights problem. But in the long run, the right to information drives every other kind of right. This case, and others like it, is challenging some of the most fundamental human rights ever - the right to freedom of speech and the right to freedom of the press. Men have gone to prison, fought, and even died for these questionable and immaterial rights in the past; I'm sorry that the defendant is in prison and hope that nobody dies over this issue, but that doesn't mean that this would be somehow less important if only civil liability were at stake.
IMHO, someone controlling what you can say and think is a lot more dangerous than someone who can control your body. YMMV.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Information obtained through reverse-engineering someone else's product is (or was, pre-DMCA) a legal way to learn about how something works. It's not "other people's information" once it's been legally reverse-engineered. Now, there's still a copyright on Adobe's code, and if they had applied for a patent on their encryption process then the information would still be theirs in a sense. But lacking a patent, it's no longer only their information once someone else reverse-engineers it.
I would say that ultimately the need for the public to have a right to reverse-engineer certain technologies is as important to the business community as the right to have some control over the distribution of certain information about your products. IMHO these needs were balanced pretty well before the DMCA but have been thrown quite out of whack since.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
There was a court case, wasn't there? Civil, not criminal, though. Because at some point IIRC a judge ruled that Phoenix had pursued appropriate reverse-engineering practices. That is the relevant case law upon which "clean room" reverse engineering is based. The only thing missing at the time was the media attention.
It's interesting how corporations are "people" in some regards but not in others. Shouldn't the FBI be going after Elcomsoft the company, not just a programmer that works for them? If Elcomsoft was bankrupt, their creditors would only be able to seize the company, not individual employees' property; shouldn't employees be protected from criminal prosecution in the same way? Of course, this only makes sense if there are real ways to punish whole corporations; the current system of a slap-on-the-wrist fine for an essentially immortal corporation is insufficient.
P.S. Mirror the photos, please, it's going to be a long day for those web servers :)
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
The whole situation sucks and I can only hope it goes to the US supreme court, but exaggerating like New Scientist did won't help things any. I got to quite a few scientific conferences, and most of the conference organizers I know couldn't reschedule an event unless it was at least 3 years out, for practical reasons.
-m
Adobe took every measure likely to be successful to get Elcomsoft to cease and desist.
Every effort that is, other than fixing the security hole.
No copy protection is secure, no matter how elaborate the scheme or how tough the encryption. If the data can be decrypted, it can be copied.
<bad_analogy>It's like installing an expensive, high-tech alarm system on your car, then leaving your keys in the ignition.</bad_analogy>
Using bad laws and legal intimidation to force this junk on all of us simply makes our legal system look bad.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
Can't be legal, eh?
How long has it been since you've read about that wonderful law that is the DMCA? It's legal, all right. It might not be right, but it's legal. There's quite a difference.
What do I do, when it seems I relate to Judas more than You?
Still not dead.
1. no, he wrote and sold a program to crack documents ecrypted by Adobe's software. then he came to the US to tell people how he did it. this is illegal under the DMCA. Adobe did not make the DMCA into law, the US Government did.
2. see 1.
3. Adobe didn't arrest anyone, the US Govt. did. Adobe didn't pass the DMCA into law (though they may have helped write it), the US Govt. did.
4. You could easily argue that the DMCA protects innovation - it gives IP creators protections that allow them to profit from their innovations. Of course the DMCA does a whole lot more than that.
5. See 1.
6. The US Govt. passed a law that the FBI is now required to uphold. The FBI isn't necessarily beholden to Adobe by simply doing their job. Just as your local police dept responding to any credible report of a burglary being committed doesn't necessarily mean the're beholden to whoever's house they goes to.
Now of course I don't agree with his arrest. But this is only a symptom of what's wrong with the DMCA, not with Adobe. They're merely protecting their work, using the law, that the US Govt. passed (not Adobe!). Blame your local congressman, if you're a US citizen.
-c
I have discovered a truly remarkable proof which this margin is too small to contain.
You missed one. Look at the end users of the devices in question (e-book readers). My mother doesn't care about most of this stuff, but when I told her about this:
E-Book Users: Not only can you not use your books (often purchased for more than the cost of their paper counterparts) wherever and however you want, someone got arrested for trying to help you do that.
When I told her about the software, my mother wanted to know where/how to buy/use it.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
i don't agree. I would like to see him get out but I think it is much more important that we get rid of the DMCA. if we can get rid of it, we can almost definitely get him out. but I think our priority should be to fix the law so this doesn't keep happening or even get worse.
ej
that is fair enough. i don't see the need to involve the russians in this. that just complicates the matter.
Not likely. If you perform an illegal act (regardless of whether or not you or I think it should be illegal) while 'doing your job', you will be charged. The potential loopholes of immunity granted because you were getting paid to commit a crime are pretty obvious.
If the company was founded on, or receives revenue knowingly from, illegal actions, then yeah, the company's gonna get it too.
--
You should, of course, not take my comment as legal fact; I'm not a lawyer and I couldn't cite my claims if you asked. But it would seem to me that if an employee of a company performed an illegal act and signed his name to it, he would be just as liable as his employer; maybe even more so.
--
Uh, the company was a Russian company, therefore the US has no particular authority to sue them (unless they can convince Russia that it's a good idea, which I highly doubt).
The DOJ's only recourse in this situation was to use the criminal aspect of the DMCA to arrest the individual.
You can forget nr. 6, because Russia is busy trying to get into the WTO, and want to look good...
Switch the case around, if a US citizen was arrested in Russia, Bush would treat to declare war.
-H
The total amount of intelligence in the universe is constant.
Yes, I realize, the link was in the story write-up. I guess I jumped the gun there. I'm on the NYLUG mailing list. Anyway, it is still helpful to know where the protest is. Apparently the NYTimes sent a reporter, which is good, but despite being contacted no TV media showed. A surprisingly large number of people on the street already knew about the issue...
Q:Doctor, how many autopsies have you performed on dead people?
A:All my autopsies have been performed on dead peop
A protest by NYLUG and LXNY took place in front of the main branch of the New York Public Library, which happens to be across the street from the adobe offices. Here's a link to some pictures!
Click me!
Q:Doctor, how many autopsies have you performed on dead people?
A:All my autopsies have been performed on dead peop
Adobe comments on government action under DMCA
Adobe's goal in the Elcomsoft case is to help protect the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and publishers. Adobe reported this suspected eBook authors' copyright violation to the U.S. Attorney's office. Based on the information gathered in the investigation (see affidavit ), the U.S. Government chose to take legal action to stop the sale of the for-profit security cracking code, and unilaterally decided to arrest Dmitry Sklyarov.
Elcomsoft found a security weakness and made no effort to communicate what it found to Adobe. Instead, the company distributed a software product for profit that can be used to compromise copyrighted works in the United States, violating U.S. law. Adobe took every measure likely to be successful to get Elcomsoft to cease and desist. Adobe's legal department sent letters to Elcomsoft, their ISP and their credit card clearing house used to offer these products for sale. Adobe forwarded the case to the U.S. Attorney's office only after Elcomsoft failed to respond and/or cease and desist. Our goal has been to stop the sale of the program in the U.S.
Contrary to some reports, the issue is not that Adobe alerted the U.S. government about an expert exposing security weaknesses. In fact, Adobe encourages its customers and the software community, including White Hat security experts, to provide feedback on the performance of its software in order to make improvements. Adobe's concern is that a "digital lock pick" is being distributed to enable others to compromise the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and publishers, which is why Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office.
Corporate
Q: How are your customers, the publishing community, responding to this?
A: The Electronic Frontier Foundation considers themselves a leading civil liberties organization that works to protect right in the digital world. We are in constant communication with our customers who are also concerned about issues of privacy and protection of digital property. There is strong support from the publishing community, as evidenced by the statement from the American Association of Publishers. While the laws to enforce the protection of digital media are in their infancy, we believe they are based on the same principles as traditional media--protect the copyrights of authors, artists, developers and publishers while balancing the right to fair use.
Q: What's going on with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)?
A: We are engaged in discussions with the EFF to work together to address this situation. We believe a mutual frank discussion of how best to resolve the current issues will benefit Adobe and EFF.
Q: As a result of this case, what is Adobe doing to strengthen the security of its products?
A: Security is an ongoing effort at Adobe. The company is committed to strengthening the security of its products by using sophisticated, industry-standard levels of software encryption and working with the software community, including White Hat security experts, to incorporate features to advance the quality of the product.
Legal questions
Q: Elcomsoft claims that eBooks in Adobe PDF are insecure and that the encryption is weak, including ROT-13 which is notorious for its lack of security. Are those claims true?
A: Adobe has never sold ROT-13 as a security product. Adobe incorporates sophisticated, industry-standard levels of software encryption to make our products difficult to compromise. However, no software is 100% secure from a determined, illegal attack. When used legally and in its intended fashion, the Acrobat eBook Reader secures eBooks purchased by locking the eBook to the hardware from which it was purchased. The Elcomsoft software circumvents the security afforded by our software to protect copyrighted works.
I suggest, corporate dealth penalties - government-enforced breakups of any corporation over a certain size. As antitrust regulators say "this is not punishment, this is remedy". And 100% taxes on all personal wealth over and above say $1 million. Simultaneous, all over the world (Simultaneous Policy, SP), so that people and corps can't just run someplace else (ok, space, but who cares). That way you limit how much influence any single commercial entity or person can have. Of course, very difficult to get any government to do that - let alone all of them.
So, any better ideas? The libertarians, when they even look at this question at all, tend to say "elect non-corruptable politicians", but this doesn't explain how these mythical "non-corruptable" politicians will be elected, or even distinguished. Their "solution" is at least as laughable and naive as mine - possibly even more! Just because a politician claims to be true-blue libertarian, doesn't mean they really are, or that they will stay that way under the real-life pressures of government. At least I've made an initial stab at explaining how corporations could be restrained from influencing government (thru government). Libertarians don't have a clue how to do it without contradicting themselves.
Let the flames begin!
Female Prison Rape in NY
Female Prison Rape in NY
Female Prison Rape in NY
I'm getting sick and tired of all the "libertarians" who just use "stop whining" on their opponents all the time to make their opponents look like spoilt brats. (Yes, OT I know.) There should be some kind of law like Godwin's Law against that ;) j/k
Female Prison Rape in NY
This post is amazing. Not because that it's a mostly amusing troll, but has anyone looked at
the moderation it's got?
If you haven't looked at the moderation details (at the time I'm posting this), it's :
Flamebait=1, Troll=6, Insightful=1, Informative=1, Funny=16, Overrated=3, Underrated=1, Total=29.
29 moderations! This must be close to some sort of record.
Now, ok, I can see that it could be a troll, and maybe flamebait, I do think it's funny, and it
obviously has been overrated or underrated at some point, but 'Informative' and
'Insightful' ????
My goodness, they must be giving out moderation points to amazing clueless people these days.
"The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
Here's the mirrors, updating as fast as possible. Lay off the origin servers for a while and they'll mirror faster.
. com/nyc/
w helm.org/freedima/
http://nc.flyingbuttmonkeys.com/mirrors/umklaydet
and
http://nc.flyingbuttmonkeys.com/mirrors/www.under
The mirrors are hosted off of two T3s, should be fast enough...
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
By the time Saint Paul had been added to the list of "organized" sites, the EFF had already called the whole deal off. So we were left to our own devices (none).
This issue is not ended when the protesters go home this evening. I'm going to take a nap, and then start a more organized campaign to have another protest.
We had some great responses from passers by, and about 90% of people took and actually read the flier. I had printed prewritten, preaddressed postcards to send to our senators, and we gave a hundred or so of those away. I still have boxes of preaddressed envelopes for the letters I made (justifying our next protest).
There are so many reasons for people to identify with this issue (big govt., big corps., prison, reading, speech), that it is hard not to be upset. The truth is our most damaging weapon, and we spread some of it in Saint Paul.
Send your real email address to freedima@underwhelm.org and you will be in the know next time (which will be sooner, not later).
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
and the diffrence from killing them with a gun is.. ?
How is cloning a proprietary BIOS the same as breaking a simple encryption? or is it encoding?
More like Apples to oranges. Dmitry allegedly broke it not in the spirit of competition, but to show how easy it was.
Most union/rights organizations have to learn a lot before they can play with the big boys. For instance, Ceasar Chavez had no results for years, maybe decades, until he learned the ropes and read literature on civil disobedience.
Fortunately for us, programmer's rights are a relatively minor issue compared to migrant worker's rights, so we haven't had to deal with truly difficult situations. Most rights issues are in the hypothetical, but once in a while a case like this makes it real.
LS
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
Solder could be treated like bullets, limit how much common citizens can buy at any one time.
In the United States generally, bullets are not limited as to quantity that can be purchased at any one time. (Some cities may be trying this as a way to get around the Second Amendment. But "Arms" includes bullets...)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
It's kind of sad how *stupid* our legislators are (yes, I vote btw, but when the choice is between dumb totally owned by corporate interest and dumber totally owned by corporate interest what kind of choice is it)?
So vote in the PRIMARIES.
And go to the local party functions of the party that revolts you less, find out which potential candidates are NOT "dumb totally owned by corporate interests", encourage them to run in the primary, and VOLUNTEER to ring bells, pass out literature, and otherwise get out the vote for your candidate.
Volunteer in the period leading up to the general election, too. Make the voter-contact calls and visite. You can just "forget to mention" any of the party's candidates you don't like. (That happened to at least one California anti-gun Republican last election - virtually all the volunteers were pro-gun. B-) )
Or run YOURSELF.
Geez. First you let the guys in the smoke-filled rooms and pressure groups decide who the candidates are and work to get them nominated, then you gripe that there's nobody there to represent YOUR interest.
Politics is WAR! If you believe in something, FIGHT for it!
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Erm, that's like saying that I don't take any losses for taxes except perhaps that my salary isn't quite as competitive as a result.
I beg to differ on both counts. I'm no friend of Adobe or anyone who acts as they did, but raising prices to cover taxes does not mean you are not effectively paying said taxes. It just means that the economy as a whole hurts more because of those higher taxes.
Well, now, I'm all for a corporate death penalty -- but for being a certain size? Come on. To draw your parallel back, you might as well execute anyone rich enough to have a home that costs more than $100,000.
I say, if a corporation is convicted of breaking a serious law, then give them the lethal injection -- dissolve them completely. Don't break them up, that's just silly.
You know, I really didn't mean $100,000; I meant $1,000,000. (My poor mother...) :-)
Does anyone know where to go to find out if Adobe really does pay taxes?
10k and 10q forms are filed with the SEC annually/quarterly. According to their filings, over the past quarters, they've paid the following (in millions) for income tax:
2Q01 1Q01 4Q00 3Q00 2Q00
30.2 34.4 43.6 42.2 35.4
This is just a quick perusal, and undoubtedly covers local and state, in addition to federal taxes.
The truth about Scientology, Xenu, and you: Operation Clambake
hmm
1st amendment sais the govt can't make a law abridging freedom of speech - it has nothing to do with who's doing the saying - it constrains the govt
is Dmitry protesting running? I thought that was good for you.
Without making inflammatory remarks I will admit that I was wrong and that there were some posts regarding it. Plus I'm not afraid and don't hide behind the shield of posting as an AC. To show how wrong I think I was, I will now mod down my own comment.
What, is it not OK for hackers to get any exercise these days?
http://www.naildrivin5.com/davec
Take this sign for example. At first glance, it looks almost like it says "Down with Dimitri!" Yeah, yeah ... I know what it really says, but you can see how it's a little unclear. A lot of people will end up doing a double-take when they first see it.
And there are the doofi who showed up at the DMCA protest at Stanford last year. They had these signs that said "I don't care for the DMCA, reverse engineering is A-OK". Fine and dandy, if a little verbose -- but the trouble was, all the text was written way too small for anyone to read from a distance, except for the words "DMCA" and "A-OK". So it looked as though they were in favor of it! D'oh!
Why can't people make clear, easy-to-read signs when protesting?
Free Hans!
As above.
Peace, or Not?
I know, I was there between 1:45 and 1:30, when I had to return to work. There were several others who came on their lunch break, as well as some who planned to be there all day. We handed out quite a few flyers and talked to a lot of people. The pictures have a lot of the same people, so don't use those as a way of counting. I assume the person taking pictures was mostly taking pictures of people she knew, not intending them to be a documentary of the event.
Peace, or Not?
I was there, but not an organizer. Two reasons for choosing the library: 1) It was across the street from the Adobe offices. 2) It was symbolic of the fight against the DMCA, since libraries are potential targets of it's scope.
Also, there are a lot of people hanging out there!
Peace, or Not?
This is the first time i've laughed uncontrollably at a slashdot post. you made my day :)
You mean financially worthless like StarWars?
While I agree with your intentions, I think you'd hava a hard time getting this through.--
Tarald - The Lord of Smeg
Tarald - The Lord of Smeg
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on
Personally, I would suggest Fair Use Protection Act or FUPA for short...it's fun to say and has a somewhat naughty sound to it.
The most important aspect should be a hardcoded limit on created work copyrights that actually matches the reasonable financial lifetime. That means:
Ten years for software/games (legalize abandonware/oldware) because any software/game product ten years old would require such inferior hardware that the chance of that hardware existing is nil.
Twenty years for movies and music. No particular reason for that figure, but it seems reasonable that after a generation changes in style and taste would render old movies/music finacially worthless outside of the people who collect "classics".
The next most important aspect is that companies must provide access to any media (audio video text) on ANY device or it will be legal for anyone to create a solution (by reverse engineering, hacking, whatever) for that device and distribute it. No Linux solution exists for that eBook? Legal to engineer one. Can't watch your DVD bonus footage on the VCR in your RV while you are travelling? Legal to use DeCSS to convert it to VHS.
Now we just need to buy a congressman to get it proposed on the floor...
- JoeShmoe
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
The original 1970s Star Wars?
Yes I would contend that there is no one interested in purchasing that any more because now you can purchase the new 1990s Star Wars with enhanced digital effects.
So this law would also help encourage studios to dusts off their old goods and polish them up a bit, while at the same time turning the older "purer" versions out into the public domain.
Not to mention sequels wouldn't count obviously, so the other two Star Wars films (1980s) would still be considered copyrighted.
I think if the law was properly worded, it would be very tough for a congressman to justify voting against it. If you make it a clear choice between the rights of consumers and the arbitrary chance for profit by a company, any congressman who votes no will have to answer to the constituants. And no matter how much money the companies pump into the system, in the end they can't cast as many votes as the masses.
But the whole point of this thread is just idle dreaming anyway.
- JoeShmoe
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Two year? That's ridiculous. I play tons of two year old games. I bought a copy of Worms2 the other day because it was $10 and that game has got to be at least two years old. And you can't legally define a major version. Companies will just call their patches 1.0 2.0 3.0 instead of 1.1 1.2 1.3 because it's all arbitrary. If you think you can start legislating how many features it takes to mae a major version then this DFCA has become just as big a pile of crap and any other law with endless riders tacked on.
Games that are two years old that play on systems we all still use are not finacially worthless. Now, games that played in DOS or on hardware from companies that no longer exist...those are games that are no financially viable.
In ten years, our PS2 and Xbox will definely fall in the same category but two years from now we will all still be playing them. I played my SNES for years even after buting an N64. I still was buying games for it too.
Even five years is too short, as games like StarCraft continue to make money from sales and can be played on resonably accessible hardware. Meanwhile, Warcraft 2 (only two years older) requires DOS4GW modes that can't be done on Windows NT, 2000 and probably not XP.
That's the defining line. When the market for hardware is gone, all software for that hardware is finacially worthless.
And get off the damn high horse already, no one appointed you lord of the DFCA. Stop patronizing people by annointing them with section numbers. And if you make good on the promise "I report this everytime a big DMCA story" be assured I know where my moderation point will be spent -1 Redundant.
- JoeShmoe
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
got there at noon or so, not a whole lot going on, just maybe a dozen people with six signs, talking to passersby and handing out flyers.
wish there could have been some media coverage; oh well.
the austin protest, among others, was planned very late... you would have had to either wade through the mailing list traffic or wait until it showed up sunday on boycottadobe.org to know about it. d'oh!
-----
It is located at: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nf/20010723/tc/12192_ 1.html
-Renard
(Revving up Adobe PR machine...)
These are the key points that will be developed in the FAQ below:
Adobe's goal in the Elcomsoft case is to help protect the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and publishers. Adobe reported this suspected eBook authors' copyright violation to the U.S. Attorney's office. Based on the information gathered in the investigation (see affidavit ), the U.S. Government chose to take legal action to stop the sale of the for-profit security cracking code, and unilaterally decided to arrest Dmitry Sklyarov.
Elcomsoft found a security weakness and made no effort to communicate what it found to Adobe. Instead, the company distributed a software product for profit that can be used to compromise copyrighted works in the United States, violating U.S. law. Adobe took every measure likely to be successful to get Elcomsoft to cease and desist. Adobe's legal department sent letters to Elcomsoft, their ISP and their credit card clearing house used to offer these products for sale. Adobe forwarded the case to the U.S. Attorney's office only after Elcomsoft failed to respond and/or cease and desist. Our goal has been to stop the sale of the program in the U.S.
Contrary to some reports, the issue is not that Adobe alerted the U.S. government about an expert exposing security weaknesses. In fact, Adobe encourages its customers and the software community, including White Hat security experts, to provide feedback on the performance of its software in order to make improvements. Adobe's concern is that a "digital lock pick" is being distributed to enable others to compromise the copyrighted works of authors, artists, developers and publishers, which is why Adobe alerted the U.S. Attorney's office.
Corporate
Q: How are your customers, the publishing community, responding to this?
A: The Electronic Frontier Foundation considers themselves a leading civil liberties organization that works to protect right in the digital world. We are in constant communication with our customers who are also concerned about issues of privacy and protection of digital property. There is strong support from the publishing community, as evidenced by the statement from the American Association of Publishers. While the laws to enforce the protection of digital media are in their infancy, we believe they are based on the same principles as traditional media--protect the copyrights of authors, artists, developers and publishers while balancing the right to fair use.
Q: What's going on with the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)?
A: We are engaged in discussions with the EFF to work together to address this situation. We believe a mutual frank discussion of how best to resolve the current issues will benefit Adobe and EFF.
Q: As a result of this case, what is Adobe doing to strengthen the security of its products?
Now that would be cool. Enough of these civil disturbances, let's protest with marathons! Bikeathons! Kayakathons!
I think I need to go lie down.
-jKarma: T-rexcellent.
Heh, sorry. Only a year on the school online paper staff, and I'm speaking editing shorthand. WC means "word choice." I don't think that's a good verb to apply to protests.
-jKarma: T-rexcellent.
Dmitry Protests Running
My first thought: "What does this Dmitry guy have against running?"
I had to read the blurb to fully understand that. Come on, headline common sense. It should tell you clearly what the story is about. If I had a red pen, I'd circle the word "running" and scrawl "WC?"
I'll stop bitching offtopic now.
-jKarma: T-rexcellent.
There were two stories about it! Try looking in the history for the last few days. Or at all the posters above who for some reason got modded down as "trolls." The parent post is the only troll here.
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Hey, according to a friend who's there, the SJ protests are still going on. I'm heading over there now...
---
reverend lola
the titanium sheep
reverend lola
the titanium sheep
provider of steel wool
IBM would have pressed charges. Thats why they took the clean room approach.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
tune
skkkoooonnnggggkkk ptui
Okay, okay, you win. I will revise:
"Now, however, it can get you arrested" and "as Adobe just has in having a foreign programmer arrested".
tune
skkkoooonnnggggkkk ptui
1. For the Computer User "Anyone who is a frequent computer user probably hears about how one program or another has a security problem. You're usually directed with instructions of where to download the fix or patch. Even a couple of years ago, the security experts that would find the problems would often be thanked publicly or even be given a check. Now, however, it gets you arrested. Dmitry Sklyarov gave a talk on the security flaws in Adobe's encrypted pdf system, and Adobe reacted by having the FBI arrest him on criminal charges."
2. For Adobe's Customers: "Adobe charges you thousands of dollars for encrypted pdf solutions. If there was a security problem in this solution, how would you like it handled? Ideally, it would be a proactive admission of the problem, and the innovation and release of a solution. However, the DMCA makes it possible and legal for Adobe to handle it differently: sue to keep it quiet. When companies use this strategy, as Adobe has in the arrest of Dmitry Sklaryov, a student who gave a talk on faulty security mechanisms, it means that you cannot be confident that your secure solution is actually secure, and you cannot be confident that other people out there don't already have the means to break your security."
3. For the corporate president: "Relying on the DMCA invites you to lose your competitive edge. If you are in the technology sphere, you rely on innovative solutions. You sell your solutions using phrases such as 'time-tested', 'robust', and 'secure'. The DMCA invites you to protect your products not through innovation, but through lawsuits and intimidation. When you protect through lawsuit, you are not protecting through evolution. You may win in the short run, but you erode your long-term viability. When you act as Adobe just has in arresting a foreign programmer who pointed out flaws in their product, you have succeeded in silencing and penalizing the voice of potentially useful information, but you haven't improved your product."
4.For the patriot: "Since the birth of our nation, 'Yankee Ingenuity' has been a phrase that has described the American spirit of our inventors, our tinkerers, our problem-solvers. There has always been an American right to take things apart to see how they work. Now, it is illegal. If someone wants to take apart a company's security protocol to see how it works, with no intention of selling or pirating the media it protects, that someone can be thrown in jail for five years and given a $500,000 fine. Last week, Adobe took advantage of this law and started to destroy a man's life. This anti-innovative spirit is far from what America used to be about, and America isn't what it once was. The man who was arrested is from Russia - and what he did is legal there."
5.For Adobe: "Adobe had a man arrested last week for committing crimes - investigating and talking about shoddy security implementations - that every security professional employed by Adobe would probably be guilty of if the law had existed 15 years ago."
6.For Vladimir Putin: "So you have a citizen, a student, doing PhD work in computer security, and a Russian company that creates software that protects the legal rights and responsibilities of Russian consumers. The product is designed to be used for a person's personal material and even has safeguards against using it for piracy purposes. The company does not sell or distribute pirated material. This citizen travelled to the United States to give an academic talk. The United States government, beholden to a US Corporation, then arrested your Russian citizen and is now holding him without bail."
tune
skkkoooonnnggggkkk ptui
gee, look at all those people there in new york. i bet they're drawing all kinds of attention to themselves and the situation. oh wait, that's normal foot traffic for new york, nevermind...
new york city probably wasn't the *best* place in the world to hold a protest, unless they were able to get at least a sizable crowd, which, in manhattan, would need to be several thousand people.
but i definitely applaud the efforts. it's good to know that adobe is at least *trying* to listen.
-mike
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."
--
Oh my god dmitry is the russian equivalent of Jeff K. He must really be some l33t h4x0r. Dmitry's next web page will have an excuse letter to the FBI pledging everybody not to hack the planet.
-Linux is SO fast it does an infinite loop in 5 seconds.
Here's a write-up and pix, courtesy DC Indymedia.
A relevant email list for subsequent Washington, DC activities concerning Dmitry and the DMCA can be found here (might be temp. offline).
Sincerely,
Vergil
Vergil Bushnell
Insects and Grafitti Photos
Cryptnotic
My other first post is car post.
This is no joke. A cop once threatened to arrest me because I had a FLASHLIGHT in my car. After detaining me for almost an hour and searching my car they let me go. They'd initially pulled me over because I'd made a wrong turn down a dead-end street in a bad neighborhood and was "driving suspiciously" trying to get back on the main road.
Incidentally, this was in Tampa, home of the PoliceCam. And they wonder why I don't trust the cops.
-Cybrex
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
Seriously, WTF does "WC", in this context, refer to?
Are you sure about this? Thanks to a number of loopholes in the corporate tax regulations, a lot of large corporations pay negligible, or even zero taxes.
Does anyone know where to go to find out if Adobe really does pay taxes?
TheFrood
If you say "I'll probably get modded down for this..." then I will mod you down.
The San Jose protest went well, although I can't speak for the protests in other cities.
I got there at 11, we were in a park not far from Adobe HQ, we stayed there until noon to attract attention, then we marched two blocks down to Adobe HQ and chanted stuff like "Free Dmitry" for another hour until the meeting with the EFF indoors ended. The EFF representatives waved to us and one of the contest leaders got a call from them saying our efforts helped.
Overall, it was rather fun, and the cops gave us no problems. One of them actually honked and waved to us.
There were several news reporters milling about asking people stuff. I'd say the entire thing was an overall success.
---
Can you imagine a MOSIX cluster of these?
Can you imagine a MOSIX cluster of these?
Did anyone get a mirror of that PR before Adobe sucked it back in?
Im wondering why this protest was organized at the library. Wouldn't the local offices of Adobe and/or the FBI be more appropriate? Or, even though I hate the name, somewhere in Silicon Alley, were you would find more people that would be directly affected by such issues?
--------
The ivory tower has never had to reach so h
I only scanned that site last week. I would never guess Adobe would be in that area. Good place then. :) Theres not much open area in that neighborhood except that.
--------
The ivory tower has never had to reach so h
I really like that, I will add it...I report this everytime a big DMCA story, and have added a few reader suggestions along the way.
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
I can do a good enough copy of a TV show or DVD to my VCR....and thats what I mean.
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
Actually for software it should be more like two.... 8a. Each major version of software (ie. v1 v2, etc) shall have a copyright perod not to exceed 2 years past the time that version is no longer available for sale. In this time the software publisher will have most likely published a newer version, ceased to exist(how can a company which doesn't exist reasonablely hold a copyright anyway), or abandoned that line of software. "
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
Wow, calm down it was just a suggestion, I was actually not thinking so much of games, as stuff like windows revisons, and application revisions. I totally agree about games I play tons of games that even up to 20 years old, I still have my original Zork disks. I just felt that 10 years was a bit long, of a time in the PC world, consider that basically the PC world just turned 20 this year, then consider the amount of perfectly good software/hardware that has been left in the wake of the ever proceeding crush of change. Hell everytime Bill Gate's burps half the old software doesn't run on M$ OS'es anymore. I was actually taking the ideas in your post and rnning with them, as it made total sense to me that once something is no longer available to purchase that the publisher that clock should be ticking quickly until the publisher no longer has rights to it, they are not making money on it because they are not selling it anymore after all. I am not no any high horse, just attempting to be in a discussion about what could be proposed to make things a little more fair is all. I started posting Ideas for this idea about to months ago and it has been gathering steam each time I proposed it. You actually gave me alot of good ideas infact. The fact remains however that software wise there has to be some dividing line other than hardware platform existance, be otherwise the publisher will always have a strangle hold on those idea and concepts because they will claim that by releasing a new version they have now exteneded the copyright on it. Look at W2K boot sometime it says Copyright 1985-1999, which means that M$ is claiming that the copyright any anything in the windows system goes back that far, and that forward. Inotherwords when the copyright to Windows 1.0 runs out they can claim that no it didn't it was renewed with the release of Windows 200 in 1999(which is a mistake in its own right since it was released in 2/2000 the copyright screen really should read 1985-2000, but that academic). Its funny how in one post you can be so supportive and then in another when I propose a small change for discussion you seem to tkae it as a personal affront and become instantly negative. This is exactlky the same kind of opposition that any proposal to reverse the effects of the DMCA would face in the real world. The origianl authors will violently defend their ideas in the same way. I would love to discuss this more with you, despite your harsh words I value your opinions. By the way I probably will not be posting the DFCA post again, I think its pretty much where it oughta be from the posting this time. I don't mean to be redundant, its just each time it gets revised it needs to reviewed again to get better and better feedback and close as many loopholes as possible.
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
I propose the (DFCA)Digital Freedom Continuence Act. "1. Congress Shall Pass no law restricting your ability to do anything digitally that you can do through handwritten, and or Analog means. 2. Congress shall not allow the granting of a patent for any device that would knowingly impinge upon your ability to do anything digitally that you could do via handwritten or Analog means. 3. It shall be unlawful to distribute technology which would knowingly violate the Free Speech and Fair use intentions of the Consitution of the United states of America. 4. It shall hence forth be understood that once "content" is purchased, it is the purchaser's right to do what ever they choose with that content, and shall have the right to do as they have always been able to do via handwritten, or analog means. 5. Congress Shall repeal the DMCA it does not serve the people of United States in any fair way shape or form. It abridges the freedoms that are set forth in the constitution. 6. Congress shall pass no law which prevents fair use of media, nor shall it support any initive which would do the same. 6a. it shall be illegal to develop technology or any other means which would prevent fair use of media."
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
I definitely agree with this. It's bit late now, but it probably would have been good to announce that today's protests were the first of a series of weekly protests and go ahead, all-out with today's protests, while keeping open the possibility of cancelling future protests in response to concrete positive developments.
At this point, though, I'm not really sure what purpose negotiating with Adobe serves anyway, though, since this is a criminal matter, not just a civil case. I guess it would be helpful if Adobe were to come out and say they were wrong, but at this point that's hardly sufficient.
Oh, and about your little rant. You're original statement said that /. didn't cover anything at all, now you're bitching about what they did cover. You do know that you're original post is still accessible, right? Also, this is a comment on /., not on the free-sklyarov mailing list, so why does my knowledge of that matter? Stop bitching and become part of the solution.
It's ignorant morons like you who have kneejerk reactions to everything without bothering to actually READ anything that junk up slashdot with useless comments.
Well, you and whatever jackass moderator that actually modded your comments up.
you are in the US.. a country in which corporations gained legal personhood BEFORE Blacks, poor Whites, and Natives
if adobe can't find a way to use the DCMA to quash the protests, they'll buy some new law that will give them a way..
HELP!!!! somebody please tell me what is insightful about this entry, and why it deserves a score of 5, a 2 for funny maybe, but a 5 for insightful? This is clearly not Dmitry Skylarov, the specs on the IMac should be proof enough. On the other hand, since when do we arrest foreign nationals for demonstrating their products here. This man didn't even commit a crime here! Every day we have thousands of foreign nationals who come here and do commit crimes (it is a crime to work without a work visa) and all we do is deport them.
NO PARKING
NOT 5 MINUTES
NOT 30 SECONDS
NOT AT ALL!
Meh, it made me chuckle.
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Slashdot: News For Zealots. Stuff That's Hypocritical.
This guy ain't protesting much aside from the fact that she's still wearing pants. Down with pants! Up with skirts!
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Slashdot: News For Zealots. Stuff That's Hypocritical.
They may not have ordered the arrest, but they are certainly guilty of initiating it! Adobe, your hands are still stained...
-- Shamus
This space for rent. EZ terms!
Actually, according to the donation matching company listing on the EFF membership page (Join Today), if you work for Adobe, they'll match your donations to the EFF :-)
What this does for Adobe, or any other sinister substitute for Adobe, is that every other company that works on Adobe technology in some manner is now legally bound to report deficiencies with that technology to Adobe courtesy of the DMCA. If you report such deficiencies to anyone, you get arrested like Dmitry. Or you get sued like 2600. Or you get censored like Felten. Maybe instead of publishing results you should just send Adobe a bill for services rendered. Sounds fair to me.
That's funny, do you believe in the death penalty for citizen's of a country as well? If not, why the bias towards corporations?
Just because a politician claims to be true-blue libertarian, doesn't mean they really are, or that they will stay that way under the real-life pressures of government.
You can answer the following question, but I'd like to see if you even have the willpower to do the research so you can do so, or if you're just blurting crap that makes you feel better. Here it is:
Name one libertarian that, upon getting elected, was not true to their libertarian background, under the "real-life pressures of government".
In other words, we have little to no evidence showing us that Libertarians *would* back out, so why are you discounting it before the fact?
Most of those I know that run are in it on principle, hence the reason the party is called the "Party of Principle". The *idea* is what they run based upon, not the *belief* that they themselves have.
You said it yourself though. It was civil and not criminal.
I don't care what the arguments are, there is an entire world of difference between a criminal case (funded by taxpayers for interpretting laws that were created by special interests groups using legislatures) and a civil case (funded by the corporations or individuals that didn't already have the intuition to bribe a politician into creating a law that benefits them)
And yet slashdotters *still* think I'm an idiot when I say that businesses will use the government to "get around" capitalism by passing regulations and other items in such a way that the sheep think they need them.
Ever heard of charitable trust funds? It's the reason why meritocrats are better than us. They thought of something they knew they'd be able to convince us we needed as a country.
So yeah, criminal and civil have a lot of difference. Intuitive thinkers (or corporations with a lot of money) create laws beforehand so they don't *have* to do a civil case.
Adobe is an example of this.
I want to see DMCA repealed, but I want Dmitry to go home as a free man much, much more.
The key part is that magic "attempt" word.
They lost.
Under the DMCA, I think they might've won.
That would have been...
Uh, probably really good. M$ would never have gotten big, and all of the different hardware companies would have continued to pump out strangely different machines. The generic PC might not have happened. We'd probably all be running Linux or NetBSD on 86 different platforms now.
However, it would have been sucky for those guys at Compaq, and the ends never justify the means, right? :)
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
If you really want to get rid of the DMCA, or at least have a good stab at it, let EFF create some trivial software for viewing some ROT13 encrypted text. Sell copyrighted material ROT13 encoded to be viewed with this software.
Protect this software with a special dongle that requires a simple key to be turned to put the dongle in action. Now give away the dongle for free, but sell the key for a profit. Make sure that there is only one key, so every copy can activate any dongle. Give the software and a few dongles to your friends, and let one of them buy a key. There's no need to let your friends copy the key, but let the key-owner inquire at a local store how much it will cost to duplicate the key.
Now everything is set to sue every key-duplicator in every convenience store out of existence as they sell services for copyright-circumvention. This will not only make lockpicks illegal, but any service that allows duplicating keys. I don't know about the US, but here in Europe you can find these services around every corner. This will either wipe out an entire industry with associated layoffs, or (more likely) will require at least an amendment of the DMCA.
The EFF might have the legal muscle to start the lawsuit, and ask the FBI to throw everyone that sells duplicating key services into the slammer.
I'm curious what would happen then.
In the cases involving the Corvair, Silent Spring, and the Firestone tires/Ford Explorers, the corporate world did attempt to silence the whistler blower. However, their attempts failed because each involved risks (i.e., death, injury) to the general public.
The current application of the DMCA may not cause direct death, but who knows about the future. Cars and chemicals can be copyrighted. The law certainly applys to attempts to circumvent them too.
And so what if someone isn't dying directly because of the DMCA? Fair use is a pretty neat thing too. It may not be as tragic as Corvair crash, but it still hurts.
I see no big clamor for Congressional hearings, the DMCA does not involve public safety, and it's nice to have powerful friends who believe in your cause.
You have a pretty deep belief in the power of Congressional hearings. There were hearings when the bill was passed. Security officials did testify. There's even a so-called "loophole" protecting the kind of research presented at Defcon. But he was still arrested! A bunch of guys skipping out early from a meeting in the Rayburn office building isn't going to make a darn bit of difference. The only thing that will matter is if the public begins to realize the stakes. The boycott frightened Adobe, not Congress.
The list goes on...
The biggest problem with the DMCA -- and the
problem which this whole issue highlights -- is
that it criminalizes what should be a civil issue.
It may be that there's some room for civil penalties when someone distributes a copyrighted
work w/o permission. It might (a stretch, but
might) even be workable to have fines and accountability for tools whose sole purpose are
to distribute copyrighted works w/o permission.
But throw somebody in JAIL because they did this?
No way.
Not to mention the sovereignty issues. Just once I wish that some of the people I know who constantly carp about the the United Nations would wake up and realize that we're far more in danger of disolving the sovereignty of other nations and giving up ours to monied interests than becoming slaves a shadowy UN conspiracy.
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Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
Wendy McElroy has a good analysis of property rights at http://www.zetetics.com/mac/libdebates/ch6intpr.ht ml
I agree the title was confusing.. I thought he had run away in protest.. :) .. Then I thought "No he couldn't - they're watching him". Next thought: Ah! They're organizing some marathon in support to Dmitry!.. Good for all those lay-z boy hackers... :)
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
Seriously though, good luck with the protest.
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
the enforncemen of this bad legislation sets the political stage to bring about fundamental change to the DMCA. Or so I hope...
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess? - Joshua (Wargames)
I should do up a sign that reads in huge letters:
"This sign was made with GIMP."
give me a
they used photoshop or something. But I guess that's the point. for example (from the photos):
I will remove it if asked, so grab it if ya want it.
Mark
As Nietsche famously said, "If you stare too long into the Abyss, 1d4 Tanar'ri of random type will attack you."
Sad.
It seems that US Government doesn't see the seriousness in this matter and the stupidity in DMCA. In academic(dunno commercial) field, we don't consider US as the main base of computer encryption and wireless technologies. The Government gotta waking up from the center-of-universe dream, and stop hindering the growth of technologies. (well I really doubt they'd)
When used LEGALLY, it's secure
Man it gives a damn new meaning to the word 'security'.
Security - (n) the state of corporations' assets being protected from tempering by criminals, hackers, programmers and a Russian dude called Dmitri Sklyarov.
Where are mod points when I need them - the parent of this thread was hilarious - guess I'll waste some karma instead.... If you've got mod points mod the parent back up - I mean it sucks that Dmitry is in jail - we all know that but a little humor is a GOOD thing, not a troll.
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
Excellent. Maybe Europe can teach sleepwalking Americans to be more mindful of their vanishing liberties.
You are exactly right.
In this case, Slashdot had a perfect opportunity to promote activism in behalf of a cause it holds dear -- and it dropped the ball.
The question, of course, is: are Slashdot stories merely intended to generate lots and lots of posts, or are they intended to help generate the world we want to see?
Q: Elcomsoft claims that eBooks in Adobe PDF are insecure and that the encryption is weak, including ROT-13 which is notorious for its lack of security. Are those claims true?
A: Adobe has never sold ROT-13 as a security product. Adobe incorporates sophisticated, industry-standard levels of software encryption to make our products difficult to compromise. However, no software is 100% secure from a determined, illegal attack. When used legally and in its intended fashion, the Acrobat eBook Reader secures eBooks purchased by locking the eBook to the hardware from which it was purchased. The Elcomsoft software circumvents the security afforded by our software to protect copyrighted works."
Parse this logic with me: When used LEGALLY, it's secure. Well, duh: it's ILLEGAL under the DMCA to attempt to circumvent security, so of course it's freakin' secure. "This alarm system works great, sir... as long as noone attempts to enter your house without first ringing the doorbell and being invited in."
Then theres: "the Acrobat eBook Reader secures eBooks purchased by locking the eBook to the hardware from which it was purchased"
Translation:
The Acrobat eBook Reader renders the concept of electronic books nearly worthless by attempting to tie content to a single piece of proprietary hardware.
Gee, I wonder why this e-book thing isn't taking off? I'm an AVID reader - I read hudreds of books every year - and I've never even considered buying one of these things.
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
"We support nonprofit organizations that service disadvantaged youth, the homeless, people with disabilities, minorities, the elderly, and victims of abuse; provide disaster relief, medical and hospice care, and meal service; provide education and literacy programs; support human rights; support the arts; protect the environment; and support animal rights." http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/philanthropy
Maybe the EFF could apply to Adobe for financial assistance in getting Dmitri freed.
It's not whining. In this case it'e taking an issue and making it into a big enough political hot potato that the politicians can't ignore ;)
I don't know, but she's kinda cute...
"War makes me sad." - Me
All the info here. And of course, visit the main page for information about all the other cities.
I thought IBM _did_ attempt to sue the companies that cloned BIOS. Not a criminal charge, but basically equivalent from a corporate standpoint. Looks like the world turned out just fine anyway.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
This
Rats. When I checked on Friday, the nearest protest to me was in Chicago. Doesn't the EFF have the ability to selectively notify people by their location? Actually, since the EFF was boycotting the protests, it wouldn't matter, but it would be nice to get an email from them about geeks being needed in St Paul rather than the endless San Francisco news they seem to think I prefer.
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Yes, the nick is flamebait
What law? Dmitry cracked Adobe's shite while in Russia. It's not illegal there.
Reboot macht Frei.
He just gave others the ability to. The analogy should be:
Imagine if IBM arrested people for writing software that could be used to clone one's BIOS.
NTI, not troll intended
The pictures are at New York Public Library...
42nd and 5th Avenue...
It's 4:30 and I'm leaving work and it's around where I live so I may join them...
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Let's hope that when this case goes to court Skylarov's lawyer challenges the DMCA as unconstitutional.
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string* plamenessFilter =
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*plamenessFilter = "Flaming Death!!";
Yup.. I was thinking that that would happen. Just like I was saying about how the RIAA wants to drop the court case against those professors. The DMCA simply cannot survive a bout in court.
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string* plamenessFilter =
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string* plamenessFilter =
*plamenessFilter = "Flaming Death!!";
This is how laws get changed. Geeks bitching on message boards don't change a thing. But someone accused of breaking a bad law and one that may be unconstitutional...Dmitry has a chance of making a difference. If convicted, he will have standing to challenge the law as written. So don't complain that he got arrested; thats how the law works. You break it, you get arrested. But _do_ complain loudly about the law itself. Perhaps there is a defense fund for him. Donate to it. That is the only thing that will likely make a difference here.
Some other ideas that may make a small difference:
Make sure your local media is covering this. Write your congressman. Buy a senator. Write a letter to the editor. Find Alan Dershowitz's email address and write him.
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball(TM)
I suppose its en vogue to bash the big corporation, but in reality all they could do was use the law as written to defend their rights. The final determination was made by the FBI that a crime had in fact taken place. I think to expect them to sit back and watch while someone explains how to crack their encryption and do nothing when a legal remedy exists is unrealistic.
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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball(TM)
A: Security is an ongoing effort at Adobe. The company is committed to strengthening the security of its products by using sophisticated, industry-standard levels of software encryption and working with the software community, including White Hat security experts, to incorporate features to advance the quality of the product.
industry-standard level of encryption? Which industry would that be? Adobe eBooks encryption was written by a guy named Leisure Suit Larry, and the password is "Ken sent me"
In addition, adobe is now encouraging people to violate the DMCA. White Hat activity to circumvent copyright protection gadgets is forbidden according to DMCA. I can't believe they're so stupid as to mention it at all.
What they really mean to say is: "We really didn't want to miss out on the electronic book goldrush. So we slapped some security code( nudge nudge ) on top of pdf, and managed to sell the solution (nudge nudge) to clueless publishers and merchants. Poor suckers. However, starting today, we're going to be really really good. And we hope that some guys with White Hats will help us. We hear they're good at beating up hackers and other scum, so that will provide pleny security"
-- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
San Jose, Calif. - Adobe Systems Incorporated (Nasdaq: ADBE) and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today jointly recommend the release of Russian programmer Dmitry Sklyarov from federal custody. Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal complaint against Dmitry Sklyarov.
Visit www.eff.org for more details
We should give each of the Adobe execs a free airline ticket to Russia.
"What is the sound of one belly slapping?"
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"You know you want me, baby." --Crow
Protests are for tree-huggers and bible-humpers. Besides, has a protest really ever accomplished anything besides helping the protestors feel good about theimselves?
Not to be offensive or anything, but I don't think protests sway the governing parties much. Do you think Adobe actually cares if a bunch of unemployed schlubs march around with signs for a couple hours? I highly doubt it.
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"I strongly urge both the faint of heart and the faint of butt to leave the room at this time."
- Strong Bad
I doubt it. They are well ahead in that regard.
Actually, possession of a lock pick (or a crowbar, OR a pair of bolt cutters, or even gloves) can indeed be a crime....it falls under regulations outlawing "Burglar's Tools".
The gist of it is that you can have any of those things, but if you're using them for an illegal purpose, they suddenly transform from an innocent pair of bolt-cutters into 'Burglar's Tools', in which case you can be arrested for possessing them. The decision on whether an article is a burglar's tool or not is made by a judge.
This 'Burglar's Tools' law is what gives rise to a lot of other laws....like drug paraphenalia (sp) laws. It's not hard to see how, if the DMCA remains law, your computer could become a 'digital burglar's tool'.
E.g.: you (or Dimitri, or whomever) breaks an encryption algorithm, and get arrested. I don't think that it's out of the realm of possibility at all to imagine you also being charged with possession of burglar's tools (or something similar) because at the instant you violated the DMCA, your computer magically transformed into something that is illegal to possess. And if they couldn't find a way to slap you with this, you could bet they'd confiscate all of your gear, at the very least.
Frankly, the DMCA scares me. It opens up a whole can of worms, and needs to go. I feel sorry for Dimitri, but I'm almost glad that it happened, because until somebody got arrested, there was no chance of it going to the Supreme Court to be overturned.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Maybe he meant "declare substantial losses every few years and carry them into..." Oh, wait, you can't do that... But Corporations can :P
I wonder how much Adobe pays in taxes on average (not how much they owe, but how much they *really* pay).
Oj was innocent too....they framed his black ass.
Civil disobedience has costs. So typical of this generation....whine and bitch and never pay the price. I suspect you believe everything ought to come without a price or consequence.
Is she clueless, or making a statement?
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"Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." - Homer Simpson [1F10]
Teh jail is actually pretty nice, and they have a cafeteria, with pudding! I like pudding. But teh only computer is a lime green IMAC and it is SUCKS!!! Is only have 12.4GB of memory and a 64MB hard drive and is running MICORSOFT OFFICE 95. But is okay because IMAC allow Dmitry to post on Slasdot. Dmitry like Slashdot and many of his friends are there! Hooray for teh Slasdot!
But the jail is perfact? No!!! There is a large man and he is black and he is having a hard penis. In Russia there is stories of the men in the American jail who anal sodomize in teh butt and Dmitry not like that. So I want to get out of jail while still are are having "ass cherry." Ha! Ha that is funny.
So onec again thank you for teh supports and they rally and such! And hope that Dmitry get out of teh jail and return to cracking the ADOBE ROT13 ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM OF FUN. But this time I do it in Russia where no are evil DCMA law to put Dmitry in teh jaill.
Also I want to bomb Adobe.
So are thank you for the time! And keep the fight up!
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Please, I are begging you! To save Dmitry from teh jail!
And so we should boycott, the US has a lot of problems and muppets in 'power'. The sooner the country sorts its act out, the sooner it will start to become accepted by the rest of the world. Just another embarrassment for the list.
// Jerry