WinXP Keygen Foils Product Activation

Bill Gates' Friend's Brother's Roommate writes: "The Register has a story on a working key generator that produces 25 valid Windows XP Product Activation Keys in a few hours. As author John Lettice summarizes, 'So the question as regards keymaking software is whether or not Microsoft has any way to differentiate between generated keys and the ones it has issued itself. If not, this generation of WPA is now surely toast.'"

Comments

Weird

[glh]

Don't they have some kind of database with all the keys in it.. (after all, a lot of games out there such as anything newer by blizzard works that way)!

Re:Weird

[MattRog]

I don't know entirely how WPA works, but I know with most games you *can* use a keygen for most of the codes. If they are 'well-formed' and comply with their format then the game will accept it. However, only a select number of the 'possible' working keyset is actually *valid*, meaning it exists in their large database.

I would suspect that would be the case here; the question is whether or not that false key once accepted by the program is transmitted back to Microsoft for validation.

Re:Weird

[Mister Snee]

Actually, some companies do it the way you describe (with a database of known keys) but Blizzard does something slightly different, which Microsoft may do as well.

In Blizzard's games, the routines used by the installer to verify authenticity of a CD key actually checks for compliance to a much more broad algorithm than the keys are actually manufactured by. This means that methods of generating keys reverse-engineered from the game itself will produce keys that work for installing the game but are very likely outside of the real algorithm, which usually constitutes a tiny subset of the one used for installation. This REAL algorithm is used to manufacture the CD keys and is what is checked for on, for instance, the multiplayer servers. Since that checking is serverside it theoretically can't be reverse-engineered to a keygen. Lots of companies are doing this now -- most game keygens are fine for installing but won't play online, and while it's possible for the keygen to randomly hit on a key that falls within the real algorithm and thus allow online play, it's astronomically unlikely.

Quite smart, really. :D

Re:Weird

[Lord Sauron]

I know of a CD-Burner software that if you enter a fake serial number, appears to be registered ok, but when you would burn a CD, it'd say there was an error, and your CD was lost.

Windows could pretend it was registered ok, and then start crashing, after some time.

But, oops, no one would notice between a crashing windows and regular windows :)

Re:Weird

[govtcheez]

> Quite smart, really.

Except that every Blizzard game I've ever played would be just peachy if a reg-code of all 3's was typed in. Seriously.

Re:Weird

[AdTropis]

one note: this method assumes that the auth key will actually make it to the auth server. it is entirely possible for someone to write their own version of the auth server and then, through creative /etc/hosts entries, DNS entries, or whatever, have the game verify auth from a locally running server (that takes anything and simply says "VALID").

i don't know if you could really get away with this since blizzard's stuff is more centralized, but i think this is a problem that id has had to face.

Re:Weird

[fred911]

That specific software you are mentioning was older versions of CDRWIN. Jeff Arnold the owner of Goldenhawk wrote a nice little feature into his app that would generate hidden files until your hard drive was full, if a keygen generated key was used to install.

A real asswipe. Writes an app designed to dump raw bits from CD's but doesn't want his software copied.

Then again.. it was a few years ago.

Re:Weird

[Chang]

You could do this, but if their server is supplying a cryptographically signed response then your fake server won't do you much good unless you can crack their secret key.

Re:Weird

[llzackll]

The program you are referring to is CDRWin. It will make you think they key is good, but when you go to burn an audio cd, you will think it worked fine, but put it in yoru cd player, and its all static

Re:Weird

[mr3038]

In Blizzard's games, the routines used by the installer to verify authenticity of a CD key actually checks for compliance to a much more broad algorithm than the keys are actually manufactured by.

Yeah, but it's only question of time when the first keygen starts bombing multiplayer authentication with generated keys until one is okayed and returns only that to end user. Yeah, perhaps your IP gets logged but you wouldn't run that kind of program on your own computer, would you? Local library or ISPs shell would be just fine.

Current system could work if keys were big enough so that hitting real key with keygen would be hard but, unfortunately, as long as end user has to type in the code during install you cannot input that many bits into the key anyway.

Re:Weird

[phyxeld]

If you redirected traffic from the central server to a fake server of your own creation, wouldn't that limit the number of people you could play with online to, oh, say, just YOU?

I don't know for certain, but I really doubt the authentication is done entirely seperate from actual gameplay. Break one, break em both.

Re:Weird

[Joe5678]

Well you're close, but not quite. Sierra started it with half life. The keygens are actually the same, the keys you generate are exactly the same as the keys they generate, the only thing is that all the keys they generate go into a database of theirs that gets checked whenever you try to play the game online. The number of keys you can generate is so huge compared to the number of keys that they have actually generated and stored in their database that you can guess for a long time before you get one that's correct.

Of course they usually have a limit on the number of tries one IP can make in a certain amount of time, otherwise it WOULD be pretty easy just to hammer the database with requests until one of your generated keys match theirs.

Re:Weird

[Liquid(TJ)]

I can't believe no one else has said it, but how would that be different from a legal Windows install?

Re:Weird

[King of the World]

The poster is saying that there are two validations schemes and that the key must pass both.

The first is in the client software. The second is in the server software. Of the many keys that would successfully pass the client's validation only a few would succesfully pass the servers validation.

For example, the client tests for even numbers - and the server tests for multiples of 4 (so even if you reverse engineer the client you'll only be right half the time).

Re:Weird

[jkovach]

I've always thought systems where entering a pirate regcode make the program malfunction are stupid, because they make the program look like it doesn't work and will most likely simply cause the user to go look elsewhere. Now if it would do something like burn your CD, but 5 minutes into it start saying "This CD was burned on an illegal copy of Program ABCD", that might actually be a little more effective. But hey, I don't write software, so what do I know?

Re:Weird

[Anonymous Coward]

Nero Burning used to do this: On startup it would pop up that you are using an illegally pirated version. Supposedly worked fine, though

Re:Weird

[Kallahar]

Well it's extremely easy to protect against this. 1) blacklist IP's that hammer, 2) blacklist keys that get used by more than a handful of people.

The real threat is when a key gets loose on the internet and it is used by tens of thousands of people. One person getting one key after substantial amounts of effort isn't really going to hurt the company.

Re:Weird

[Spy Hunter]

I can confirm this. If you ever need to install StarCraft on a computer w/o the reg. number, just type in all 3s. I've never tried it on Battle.net though.

Re:Weird

[bonzoesc]

I've never tried it on Battle.net though.

FAILURE

Re:Weird

[G-funk]

So basically, if you purchase his software and mis-type the code, the programmer decides it's ok to damage your real-world property? What a cockhead. I'd buy it mis-type the code and sue to prove a point.

Re:Weird

[crucini]

The real threat is when a key gets loose on the internet and it is used by tens of thousands of people.

But how is this a problem? Make it so when a client logs in with a certain key, any existing sessions under that key are terminated.

Re:Weird

[jhoffoss]

I know it's blasphemous to mention on /. but, last time I checked, CDRWin wasn't (and indeed, never was) open-source software. This guy wrote the app, and he's free to do whatever he wants to prevent it from being stolen and/or used illegally. CDRWin is a great friggin app, and one that I got more than my money's worth from. A program like that, or nero, is one I am happy to fork money over for. Something like EZ-CD Creator on the other hand, if I were desperate, I would steal in two seconds. And I would delete it as fast as is physically possible. But that's why I never bought (or installed) a copy of it.

I start to have problems with paying for programs when I'm paying more for the software than my computer cost me when it was new, though. I still haven't paid for anything like that...so no one is perfect. But I don't blow sunshine up my ass and pretend I have a "right" to the software. I know I'm still stealing it.

Re:Weird

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a keygen for CDRWIN that bypasses his security. BTW: if you had a bad keygen, it made coasters instead of good CD's.

Re:Weird

[Anonymous Coward]

That's fucking mean. I like it. >:)

I just use nero which came with my cdrw drive or xcdroast in linux personally.

-- gid

Re:Weird

[AdTropis]

well, it depends on how the server client system is setup. in the case of Q3, it is very easy to do what i described. the server admin simply runs a fake Q3 auth daemon and the redirects the auth traffic accordingly. in the case of blizzard's games however, i'm not sure that it could be done. it's been awhile since i've played anything from them, but i remember everything regarding the servers being in blizzard's hands. in that case, you would not be able to bypass the auth system with what i described.

Re:Weird

[Anonymous Coward]

a good method that i've never seen used for key generation is to not use a "Working/Not Working" states, but instead, have the key actually disable/enable certain parts to the game. It would make finding a valid key even harder. You might think you have a valid one, but get to level 3, and the game suddenly dumps you out unexpectedly. It wouldn't be foolproof as far as stopping piracy, but it might hamper it a little i suppose.

Re:Weird

[cronik]

That would suck if a keygen came up with your number and you got kicked. You could set up a system so that while in multiplayer a check is made to the server every x sec. If the check is not made, the key is released and another user can auth with it. if the client cant auth it drops the game. simple and is much less annoying.

Re:Weird

[Anonymous Coward]

Great... just what the company needs. Bad advertising. :)

>You might think you have a valid one, but get to level 3, and the game suddenly dumps you out unexpectedly.

And then you'd think they company makes sucky software, and next time you come across some of their software you won't even give it a second thought. Never to mind killing all future chances of it being bought...

Re:Weird

[Anonymous Coward]

>This guy wrote the app, and he's free to do whatever he wants to prevent it from being stolen and/or used illegally.

Last time I made sure that the house I built wasn't being used illegaly they jailed me for murder.

There's limits to as far as you can go to protect your property. The destruction of other's property to protect your own, is, in many countries, a very grey area. The author of CDRWin may be liable for any lost data should the software purposely attempt to destroy any data, fake backing it up, or cause the computer to be unusable. Sure, you may have to pay a fine and (very very unlikely) go to jail, but that could pale in comparison to what this person is letting himself in for.

Ever noticed that most satellite companies don't destroy hardware remotely even when it knows the receiver's hacked? The worst they usually do is rewrite the software which they own. They don't, however, try to wear out eeproms, or anything else that doesn't have "this is owned by xyz company" written on it. They know there is a huge liability problem involved in this, and they know a jury would consider purposeful mass destruction of hardware a much worse crime than getting a free month or two of TV (which, in some cases, is legalized anyways).

Re:Weird

[jhoffoss]

Uh, okay. First, if an admin isn't testing his backups, or is doing backups to CD-R without owning the software, it's hiw own damn fault. Second, the satellite companies can't ruin their hardware that way. And if you'll remember far back enough (all of what, three years?) one of the satellite companies DID destroy hardware, sending a signal to fry illegal cards. Fact of the matter is this: if you had a legal right to the software and the key provided you was illegal, you'd have a basis for legal action. If you downloaded a keygen to use this software because you felt the measly price requested is too much, then you get what you pay for.

Re:Weird

[darkwhite]

That is in fact done, at least in Diablo 2 battle.net. You can't log in from two installations of D2 with one key simultaneously.

Re:Weird

[Anonymous Coward]

hey guys, guess what - MS doesn't think in terms of months or even years, but decades. they could probably give a flying fuck if people crack XP activation... think of XP as the "Beta" for activation - they're just data collecting at this point to see what works and what doesn't, how fast the kiddyz can crack various algorithms, and whatnot. also, XP activation is intentionally weak so as to get the populace used to the concept before making it a real nightmare. when they have a good system and start actually enforcing it three, four versions from now, the issue will be long dead.

Re:Weird

[satanami69]

I'd buy it mis-type the code and sue to prove a point

Your point is akin to slamming on the brakes to piss off the tailgater behind you. He may be pissing you off, but you cannot purposly do something to hurt him, even sue.

Re:Weird

[G-funk]

Well you've proved my point. In Australia if you tailgate me and I slam my brakes, then you're fucked unless you're nigel mansell, because legally with the exception of mechanical failure you have no excuse for running up the ass of somebody. If you hit me I can sue you, and you've gotta pay for both our cars.

Re:Weird

[satanami69]

My point was that if you slam on your brakes on purpose, it's *you* that are responsible (although hard to prove in court). In the US, doing so is a criminal act of aggression. And know that you know CDRWIN will cause bad blocks to be written, purposly putting in a bad CD-Key would be just as wrong.

Re:Weird

[aslagle]

A legal act of agression? Where do you live?

If you run into the back of someone, even if they stop in the middle of the highway, you're liable. And there's nothing that can be done about it, because as stupid as it is, nothing's illegal about stopping in the middle of the road.

BTW, my wife learned this the hard way. She was able to stop, but the guy in back of her didn't and pushed her into the dimwit who stopped.

Guess who got the ticket? The guy in back. *You* are responsible for maintaining seperation between you and the car in front. Not the guy in front of you.

Re:Weird

[zeno_2]

I dunno, the way its setup now with blizzard games it works fine. With diablo 2, I have my own cd key and one from the expansion, and I use those when I play on battle.net.

I can also take those same keys, and use them on every install of diablo 2 and we can have them all use the same key and we can play a lan game with no problems.

Re:Weird

[Cro Magnon]

But there was a cat in front of me! I had to stop! And haven't you ever ACCIDENTLY mistyped a password/userid. I have!

Re:Weird

[Anonymous Coward]

The poster is saying that there are two validations schemes and that the key must pass both.

The first is in the client software. The second is in the server software. Of the many keys that would successfully pass the client's validation only a few would succesfully pass the servers validation.

Then why didn't he say so. The sentence I referred to seems to be devoid of content.

Re:Weird

[Kallahar]

No no, EXACTLY! The problem is when that happens to a program without online key checking.

Re:Weird

[ph0rk]

nah, they will just start distributing savegames on level 4 so you can test your haxx0red key.

Re:Weird

[Anguirel]

This method has been done, only worse. Spyro: Year of the Dragon took months to crack (as in, create a patched execuatable, in this case) because when the system detected a variation on the code it would cause a critcal item to disappear int he game... So you'd be running around looking for the blue key to get through the blue door, and no blue key would exist (or whatever... I've never actually played Spyro... I just know about the copy-protection). If it used a CD-key, a similar circumvention could have been applied, such that the player wouldn't even know that their hack hadn't worked unless they'd played through a real version first... ie. no crash indicating that something had gone wrong.

More information available here.

Re:Weird

[TJamieson]

AFAIK, this isn't how it works. CDRWin has two separate keys, ~20 characters each. As of recent versions, there were three possibilities for registering:
1. Keys are good, fully-functional program
2. Keys are bad, it says so, you might be left in 'demo' mode
3. Pirated keys/blacklisted keys will often appear to work properly, but you will burn nothing but coasters.
Now, to your comment of "mistyping"...you'd have to get plenty of characters wrong to accidentally turn your valid key into one that gets detected as a pirated key. One of the more ingenious ways to manage piracy, if you ask me.

Re:Weird

[Anonymous Coward]

That IS what he said. You were just too fucking stupid to understand.

Re:Weird

[Trinton Azaleth]

By that time, hackers will be so tired of the process, that they will likely wage all out war against such systems and their derivatives.

Well, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

We can tell by checking your Activation ID against our database. If it isn't in their, it isn't properly registered.

We've got your MAC address, so it isn't like it's a big deal to verify the AID against that to make sure you aren't just loading the OS across multiple machines.

Basically, this system will work as long as you don't connect to the internet.

Enjoy!

Re:Well, yes

[fishebulb]

because its incredibly difficult to block MS's security check with a firewall rule?

Re:Well, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe not for you...

We're not worried about the several dozen people like you.

Re:Well, yes

[fishebulb]

i understand that, but im not worried for those people that use a pirated activation key for XP. two reasons, most definately should not be pirating (technically none, but everyone remembers those days when they were younger and such) and two, they are using Windows XP! they get what they deserve

Re:Well, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

they are using Windows XP! they get what they deserve

That's the running joke around here. :-)

(Just because we work here doesn't mean we have to toe the party line)

Re:Well, yes

[Sunda666]

> We've got your MAC address

How in the name of TCP/IP gods would them have someone's MAC addy, unless they ethernet-wire their machines INSIDE M$s ethernet network?

The mind boggles...

Re:Well, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm afraid I'm not at liberty to discuss that particular aspect of XP.

Re:Well, yes

[BinxBolling]

How in the name of TCP/IP gods would them have someone's MAC addy, unless they ethernet-wire their machines INSIDE M$s ethernet network?

Why couldn't the installation process send along the MAC address, not as part of the packet headers, but as part of the payload?

Re:Well, yes

[Sunda666]

yes, it could, but, whats the point of that, anyway? I sincerely can't figure. if the box is in a 'cold' network (ie, NATed), like all boxes in the corporate world are, how would it help M$ to track the box down?

Re:Well, yes

[spectecjr]

How in the name of TCP/IP gods would them have someone's MAC addy, unless they ethernet-wire their machines INSIDE M$s ethernet network?

The mind boggles...

It's called a GUID. It's the same as a UUID, and was designed for use in DCE.

... but basically, MAC Id's are guaranteed unique, so they're used in lots of places to generate chunks of unique numbers. The rest of the numbers are generated using timestamps and other such info.

Si

Re:Well, yes

[jerdenn]

Because the MAC address is considered one of the few relatively static numbers easily associated with a particular workstation. It is not a normal event for a workstation to have a NIC changed, or for someone to perform a soft-update upon a NIC card, changing the MAC address. Indeed, MS Word used to embed the MAC address into documents as a (secret) form of identification.

-jerdenn

Re:Well, yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Arcnet.

You people need arcnet. Those MAC switches on the back are looking awful convenient right now.

Re:Well, yes

[erc]

Unless you're running on a laptop. I've got 5 or 6 different network adapters around here, and 4 or 5 laptops, and they all get changed and swapped around, sometimes several times a day, depending on what I'm doing. 10MB, 10/100, 802.11b, you-name-it, they all get used on different laptops, and I'm not unique - I've worked for several companies where people would swap PCMCIA NIC cards on a regular basis - Joe left his NIC card at home, and can he borrow a NIC card for the day?

It's a security issue

[NewtonsLaw]

Given that the activation code is used to secure XP from unauthorized use -- I guess you could say that this is a security issue.

Given Microsoft's rather lackluster track-record in the area of security, is it any wonder that their own protection scheme has (allegedly) been cracked so soon?

Maybe they wrote it with the new C++ compiler :-)

Re:It's a security issue

[Anonymous Coward]

It warms my heart they work as hard on their own security protection as they do everyone else's.

Re:It's a security issue

[Thatman311]

The funny thing is the WPA people knew all of this would be cracked sometime in the future. So it maybe a security issue but it isn't like they didn't know the door was pickable...they knew it was and that it was only a matter of time before it was picked.

Bound to happen...

[Daniel Wood]

While this may be stating the obvious, we all knew that a key generator would eventually come along. After all, nothing is unbreakable....

Re:Bound to happen...

[jhaberman]

After all, nothing is unbreakable....

The only exception being, of course, Bruce Willis in the movie of the same title...

But I digress...

Jason

Re:Bound to happen...

[GTRacer]

No, no, no, silly! Unbreakable was meant to be the working title until post-production. Then it was dubbed UnWATCHable.

GTRacer
- "I'll only shoot him once, OK, Mom?"

Re:Bound to happen...

[llamalicious]

then, of course, Microsoft's security would be comparable to Samuel L. Jackson in the movie.

Re:Bound to happen...

[zcat_NZ]

'Unbreakable' is oracles hook (yeah, the hole was patched so they're back to beign 'unbreakable' again).. this week MS is using Trustworthy Computing as their catchphrase. Sheesh! keep up will ya?!!

mmm ..

[Netmaster]

imagen a beowulf of....nevermind

Similar "Ooops" in Microsoft Office X

[BoarderPhreak]

If you use MacOS X's built-in firewalling capabilities (really just ONE command-line) you can not only block their anti-piracy, network-broadcasting bullshit...

But fix the security hole they put in box, as well!

Woohoo! :-D

Re:Similar "Ooops" in Microsoft Office X

[kwj8fty1]

If you only have ONE command line, I don't expect your firewall to really be very effective, or flexible.

*real* firewalls (PIX, Ipf, ipchains, etc) allow you configure any aspect of the IP/ethernet traffic.

Regardless, I'd bet my lucky dollar that they use standard http[s] for sending out registration, etc. Otherwise, many corp. firewalls & proxies will block it.

Re:Similar "Ooops" in Microsoft Office X

[Hawks]

The original poster was talking about the 1 command line needed to block the port MSOffice for MacOSX uses for copy protection, which happens to open a DOS hole in OSX as well.

offtopic, but OSX has a complete FW implementation, ipfw, included in the default installation. It can be hand configured @ a cli or with a couple different GUI wrappers

Re:Similar "Ooops" in Microsoft Office X

[BoarderPhreak]

Well, the "one command line" that I mentioned was just to block Microsoft's pathetic attempt at anti-piracy, which in the same swift move opens a wide hole on your box whereby others can mess with your Office installation, like shutting down Office, opening documents, etc. Technically, you'll need to put that command line in a startup script, or your changes won't stick over boots.

The firewall itself is fully functional and you can block whatever else you would wish to... If a GUI is more your speed, you can use a program called "Brickhouse" which is pretty awesome - it just adds a GUI to the built-in firewall. There are several other products, including commercial ones that you can use as well. That is, if you're only firewalling your specific machine...

They're using port 2222 and ports over 3000.

Re:Similar "Ooops" in Microsoft Office X

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoa whoa whoa... Wait a minute..

I am running Office X under OS X. What is this security hole you speak of?

Re:Similar "Ooops" in Microsoft Office X

[Anonymous Coward]

why does MS use so many damned ports?

Re:Similar "Ooops" in Microsoft Office X

[Ryan Amos]

Why, the security hole IS Office X. All your Resume are belong to us....

This just generates the keys...

[reemul]

As far as I can tell, the user still needs to contact the MS server and go through the validation process. At the very least a key that has already been used will be rejected. At worst, MS will log all attempts and check that the key came from the correct geographical region that the boxed product was shipped to, and disable copies that don't match even if the key hasn't been used before. It's a huge hole in the security, but the end users are still going to be bothered. The worst of all possible worlds.

All of the folks looking for a free copy are better off finding a copy of the corporate edition, which doesn't phone home.

Re:This just generates the keys...

[kkith]

"All of the folks looking for a free copy are better off finding a copy of the corporate edition, which doesn't phone home."...totally agree

Re:This just generates the keys...

[Aexia]

I couldn't tell from the article, but I assume you would go through the "I don't have internet access so I'm 'talking' on the 'phone' to a 'representative' of 'Microsoft' who has 'provided' me with this 'key'" process.

Otherwise, it'd be pretty useless.

Re:This just generates the keys...

[Wesley Felter]

This app generates CD keys, which you have to send to MS to get the activation key that you need to activate Windows. So the only way to use this tool is to "phone home" to MS.

Re:This just generates the keys...

[Anonymous Coward]

So the only way to use this tool is to "phone home" to MS

*imitating E.T.* XP phone home!

Re:This just generates the keys...

[SpaceLifeForm]

Which means if I have no phone, and no internet access, I can't use XP. I'm a hermit living in the boonies, on solar power. But I *want* to use XP, is Microsoft going to supply me with transportation into the nearest town so I can call their toll-free number so I can activate XP?

Can we say Service Pack 1?

[glh]

see subject :)

Re:Can we say Service Pack 1?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bet you 10 dollars that M$ will make service packs look for hacks to XP and disable the OS if it does find them.

Re:Can we say Service Pack 1?

[HMC CS Major]

Uh, they havent started doing that with win2k, win98, winme, or any of their other products, why would they start with xp ?

The only thing even vaguely close is the ms office update that refuses to install if its running with a known bad serial number, but that doesnt disable anything.

My theory is that the damage is already done. Messing up the OS isnt going to make the person buy a real copy, it'll just make the person reinstall the same insecure pile of crap they installed in the first place, and then ms will get blamed again because stupid people dont know how to secure their illegal boxes. It's in Microsoft's best interest to let people with stolen versions update their OS, so if nothing else, they dont have software pirates spreading things like Nimda.

Re:Can we say Service Pack 1?

[pacc]

That's not true,
the story says "As yet the company doesn't seem to have used Windows Update to deactivate warez systems, but it's possible."
But you only need to check the Office Update FAQ to prove the opposite:

"Why do my Office 2000 applications exit a few seconds after opening?
Office 2000 SR-1a is designed to update licensed, released copies of Office 2000. Those users who have a released and licensed version of Office 2000 will not run into this when installing SR-1a. Customers using unlicensed Office 2000 software or pre-release (e.g., preview) software will not be able to upgrade successfully to SR-1a."

Office 2000 update FAQ
It's plain in sight, just don't do the update. However, if this would happen by an automatic update through the windows update web service it could get microsoft in trouble - even more so if they should deactivate someone's computer because of a duplicated real key. But don't think they won't try if they think they can prove its fake.

Many responses

[Kphrak]

My guess is that there will be many responses to this article...and the gist of most of those postings will be:

"D00d M$ sux...anyone got that keygen yuo're talking about I wanna crack it and be l33t oki? I just want ot use XP with my RedHat Linux b0x..."

Etc etc etc. :)

Re:Many responses

[Anonymous Coward]

lol man, don't bother with this crowd. Example:

"There are lots of bugs in linux, they have to keep releasing kernel updates to fix them, like the SNMP one." - Scored down, -4, troll.

"There are lots of bugs in windows, they have to keep releasing patch updates to fix them, like the IE6 one." Scored up, 5, informative.

You see how it works around here. :)

Re:Many responses

[maddman75]

lol man, don't bother with this crowd. Example:

"There are lots of bugs in linux, they have to keep releasing kernel updates to fix them, like the SNMP one." - Scored down, -4, troll.

"There are lots of bugs in windows, they have to keep releasing patch updates to fix them, like the IE6 one." Scored up, 5, informative.

You see how it works around here. :)


Not really. I've recently been modded down for making cracks at Microsoft - relevant ones - on a story about Microsoft. I poke at microsoft because I don't like thier products. I have to use them in my profession, and just about every task I do it occurs to me how much easier, more reliably, and quickly I could do it on a Unix based system, politics aside.

Intellectual build up

[acherrington]

This goes with the same old balance theorey. For every person building, there is an equal and opposing balancing force in the destruction of code. The question here, is which is the person building, and which is the one destructing?

~~~~~~

Changes?

[NWT]

Well, what will they do with these keys? Sell them? IMHO it doesn't matter if you've got a generated key, or if you just grad one from the noumerous crack-serial sites around the net!
If MS detects these generated serials, they may also detect duplicate Keys ...

25 keys in one night with one PC

[J.D. Hogg]

That means you probably could get 25000 keys in one hour if distributed.net was setup to do that. Even DES is harder to crack. That should tell you something about the extent of Microsoft's understanding of security issues if they can't even protect their own bread and butter correctly.

Re:25 keys in one night with one PC

[Anonymous Coward]

Foolish thing to say considering NOBODY can create an unbreakable key authentication system. Why jump on Microsoft's back for it? Search cracks.ru and find over 10 million other products which have similarly been cursed. CD Keygens are nothing new and it took crackers a surprisingly LONG TIME to write the keygen for it. Normally #crackz has a keygen out the same day a product is released - it's been months. MS must have done a damn fine job with the WPA to keep them stumped for this long, and this one has probably been generated with inside knowledge, seeing as the encryption routine would take 500 years to crack, even on a distributed system.

Re:25 keys in one night with one PC

[cmdr_fishtaco]

you obviously don't know anything about cracks. the harder a thing is the easier it is to put into a crack, bending overa and spreading your legs helps too. if you don't microsoft understands this, then you my friend have a serious problem.

never missing any opportunity to use the words hard, crack and microsoft in a sentence

Re:25 keys in one night with one PC

[DmitriA]

The program appears to be written in VB (if it is indeed the same one as posted here)
Rewriting it in C++ (perhaps with some inline assembly optimizations) will probably yield a significant performance boost if it is number crunching that is in fact slowing it down so much.

Re:25 keys in one night with one PC

[ProtonMotiveForce]

Interesting? I've pulled more interesting things out of my nose.

DES cracking, "security issues", and keys of this sort are 3 completely separate things. Do you not understand this, are you stupid, or are you just a "Microsoft Security Sucks" dancing monkey?

This has little to do with encryption, and nothing to do with security. You just analyze the valid keys and find some pattern of valid keys. Then you sit there and validate them. The solution space is much smaller than DES and the possible letters/combos are smaller. What, do you want them to have 512-byte keys?!

Re:25 keys in one night with one PC

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting? I've pulled more interesting things out of my nose.

hey, do you have a copyright on that sentence or I can use it? I like it. a lot.

Re:25 keys in one night with one PC

[Skevin]

I have a much better option, performed from stricly hardware. As soon as I have enough money, I'm going to buy a million monkeys and a million typewriters....

Re:25 keys in one night with one PC

[DarkEdgeX]

The one you linked too IS NOT the one the article is talking about (though if you browse that same thread you linked to, someone replied with the correct app (or so I believe)). The file date on the file you linked to is sometime in August of last year (the reply with the correct one is date in February of THIS year however).

The correct one (again, I'm assuming here) appears to be written with Visual C++ (not sure which ver, but it links against MFC42.DLL). I agree about optimizations, I which this were open source code so I could take a look at it-- the most obvious optimization is one I mentioned elsewhere; the code isn't SMP-friendly. It has two threads, but only ONE thread actually does the brute force work (so if you look in Task Manager, on a dual-CPU system, it only uses 50% of the total processor power available).. in order to properly utilitize all of the resources available you need to run one copy for every CPU in your system. (Ideally the app would spawn a thread for each CPU, and set the thread affinity to an individual processor (1 - max processors available). This is the change I'd implement if I had the code.)

Oh well.. maybe I'll get bored and disassemble it.

Re:25 keys in one night with one PC

[scsirob]

WPA isn't about security. It's a dry run for the .NET services system. MS now has a vehicle to remotely enable or disable the use of (parts of) their operating system.

The next step will be to allow this enabling/disabling a lot more frequently. Be prepared for the "Click YES to extend your use of MS Office by 1 hour, your MS-Money account will be charged $0.99" message box soon.

The step beyond that might be even more scary... "Click YES to extend your Third-Party Software Support layer by one hour..". In other words, they will be able to charge you by the minute for use of not only their own, but also any *other, non-MS* software...

If Microsoft doesn't have a database of #s...

[Navius Eurisko]

then they are grossly mishandling their activation system or they seriously underestimate the intelligence of most Windows users.

Considering M$, I think it's a little of the former and the latter.

Re:If Microsoft doesn't have a database of #s...

[Anonymous Coward]

....or they seriously underestimate the intelligence of most Windows users

Isn't that one obvious? We are talking about Windoze users aren't we?

Re:If Microsoft doesn't have a database of #s...

[Anonymous Coward]

then they are grossly mishandling their activation system or they seriously underestimate the intelligence of most Windows users
Microsoft seriously underestimating the users intelligence? You mean the "Start" button with the spiffy "-- Click Here to Begin" wasn't a good giveaway?

Re:If Microsoft doesn't have a database of #s...

[thumperward]

-"seriously underestimate the intelligence of most Windows users"-

Heh. I'm a Windows user, but 'most' is a tad strong, especially round these parts :)

- Chris

build a better mouse-trap...

[Adolatra]

...and someone will build a better mouse. The only solution I can see is for Microsoft to hire a 6'8" Sicilian named Rocco Knuckles to traverse the country and check every end-user running XP, enforcing the DMCA and MS's activation code policies with extreme prejudice.

Re:build a better mouse-trap...

[charon_on_acheron]

Hey, I didn't know that Attorney General John "Rocco" Ashcroft was from Sicily. And he doesn't look that tall on TV either.

You have the right to use the software you buy

[Fair Use Guy]

...and Microsoft has no right to force you to register it with them first. It's kind of like asking for I.D. when you pay with cash to "keep the honest people honest."

To that end, here is a copy of the keygen. Please do not use it if you have not paid for Windows XP.

begin 0755 Windows_Keygen.zip

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Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Sc00ter]

If their licence agreement says you have to register with them. Guess what, you have to register with them. You don't like that policy, don't buy the product!

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[bnenning]

Assuming that license agreements are valid, which is far from certain.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Rude Turnip]

If I can't see the "license" before I purchase the software and actually sign a contract, then there is no "license," IMO. The only rights retained by MS are copyright...meaning I can't distribute copies of the software to third parties...period.

If I treated my clients this way, I'd be out of business. The fact that MS has tons of money and lawyers to strongarm people into complying with their wishes does not make them right by any means.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[dvdeug]

If their licence agreement says you have to register with them. Guess what, you have to register with them. You don't like that policy, don't buy the product!

I handed the clerk money, she gave me the box, that's what called a sale. Now I own the box and contents, and can do whatever I want with them. I signed no contract, I'm not obliged to follow any contract.

If you buy a car, and once you get it home you see a little paper attached which says you can't get it serviced at a Ford dealer, and that opening the hood means you consented to the contract, does that mean anything? No.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Komodo]

Are you sure posting this is a good idea? Now Slashdot is a distribution channel for illegal circumvention devices, which is a terrorist act.

They'll be coming after YOU next.

Welcome to the 21st century.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Dr. Awktagon]

waiting for the 4-line Perl version.....

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Fishstick]

Cool. I give it 5 minutes before MS is lawyering up to C&D slashdot again (remember, what was it, the kerberos thing?)

What's that Dilbert quote? That sound you now hear is 500 lawyers buttoning their suit jackets as they prepare to decend upon you (or something like that?)

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Fishstick]

oops, more like this link, I guess.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[mangu]

I handed the clerk money, she gave me the box, that's what called a sale. Now I own the box and contents, and can do whatever I want with them.

Sure, you own *box* and its *physical* contents, but you still don't own the "IP". You can feed the box to your dog if you want, but you cannot copy the information without authorization from you know who.

Problem is, you are reasoning logically and ethically, not legally...

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Amigori]

T` 9?all for fair use, i do not agree with posting the keygen, then saying:

"Please do not use it if you have not paid for Windows XP."

If you have paid for a copy of Windows XP, it would have come with the product key, defeating the need for a keygen. I imagine that your intent is so users may install XP on more than one of their own, personal machines, but what would the ratio of them to users who just need a key to pirate the software be? I'm going with many more pirates to more legit (not totally legal as you are not complying with the EULA [which is a whole other issue in itself]) users.

Please do not think that I am against Fair Use, but Slashdot is not the place to publish this type of software. Newsgroups, personal websites, etc. would be a better place for this type of code. Just to keep Slashdot out of any legal trouble that may come of it.

Amigori

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[cduffy]

That's right, you can't copy it without their permission.

Except onto your own computer (and any temporary copies in memory needed for operation), and making one backup (which you can't distribute). If I wanted more rights than that, *then* I'd have to actually agree to the license agreement.

I don't.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the courts have been raising questions abuot the validity of license agreements, lately. The point is there's no contract unless both parties look at it and agree. If the contract was on the outside of the box, so you can read it before you buy, that'd be different. But no, it's on the inside, you don't know what it says. You fork over cash based on the information on the box. Then you open the box and see this contract. You haven't seen it before, you're not given any extra consideration, you may not have bought the product if you knew about it...but you're supposed to abide by it? That's not how contract law normally works, and that's why the courts are looking askance at it.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[TPOCdeucalion]

You posted the wrong keygen.
about this one they are talking.

here it is:
--snip--
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--snap--

base64-enc, some .zip - have fun

greetz,
deucalion

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[stretch_jc]

You realize that this is not a keygen for product activation, but a simple app that spits out cd-keys that will let you install. Windows Product Activation works by taking the CD-Key from your copy of WinXP and 'unique' hardware key (based off your NIC/MB/HDD/etc), and generating a 3rd key which activates your copy of WinXP. This tool you posted is useless.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Bobby Orr]

You get the executable, not the source code. Can you trust an .exe when you haven't seen the source? Am i missing something, or would i have to be real trusting to run this? (I mean run the program after decoding. I got it decoded -- that is as far as i went)

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[JordanH]

• I handed the clerk money, she gave me the box, that's what called a sale. Now I own the box and contents, and can do whatever I want with them.

Anything? Really?

Hey, make a copy for me and 5000 of your other friends while you are at it!

Unfortunately, now that the DMCA is law, there's little distinction in Copyright law between making illegal copies and breaking in using activation keys.

That's why we needed to stop the DMCA before it became law.

Our hopes now lie in the DMCA being struck down as being too broad or ambiguous.

There's near zero chance that Congress would ever seriously review the DMCA as long as the Media Giants like the status quo.

This situation will become much worse if the current version of Campaign Finance Reform that just passed the US Congress becomes law. Under that law, we won't be able to get together and run issue ads against the DMCA around election time, but the Media Giants, through their news organizations, can run endless editorials and stilted "news" stories about how the DMCA is a good thing right up to and including on election day.

There's still a good chance that bans on issue ads wouldn't pass judicial review. See this page for a discussion of the issues. It seems that this ban would run against the 1976 Supreme Court Ruling Buckley vs. Valeo. There can be no ban on spending, only on individual contributions, which the "soft money" ban would effectively do.

In any case, I don't see much hope of getting the DMCA repealed. Even if we could try to drum up support, it would be an extreme uphill battle trying to get people to understand the issues, what's at stake and overcoming the powerful interests on the other side of the issue. There's some hope that it could be ruled unconstitutional. IANAL, but in my opinion, a bright spot is that recent ruling reported on /. where a judge ruled that put software sales back into the domain of "First Sale" like books regardless of whatever EULAs they might have you clicking through.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[dasunt]

As far as I can tell, that doesn't work.

Or maybe I'm doing something wrong. Used the base64 windows port, kPad (win32) to save the text, and it seems invalid here. Doesn't make a working zip.

Oh well, I didn't really have a use for it. As far as I'm told, the corporate pirated edition works fine anyways, and doesn't need a whole night just to generate 25 keys. (windows XP corp requires no activation, and finding product keys for it is relatively easy).

OTOH, I like 2k better. Less eye candy. Or win98 for the games.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[cduffy]

...but what would the ratio of them to users who just need a key to pirate the software be? I'm going with many more pirates to more legit (not totally legal as you are not complying with the EULA [which is a whole other issue in itself]) users

You know the phrase "Better that 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man goes to jail"? Same thing can be applied here; better that 10 pirates find their jobs slightly easier than one legitimate customer gets screwed because the Microsoft reps don't believe he needs his key reactivated for a fourth reinstall on his new machine.

Also, it's quite questionable as to whether the EULA is binding; there are many cases where it appears to provide no rights not already available to anyone who fully owns their copy of the software, hence lacking the contractual requirement of consideration.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[dasunt]

D'oh.

I'm an idiot.

Forgot to use the -d option.

(Well, I guess, this leads credit to the theory that I'm not a pirate. At least, not one familiar with unicoded programs.)

OTOH, the "Test Key" part of the program fails with legit XP Home keys. :( (Legit as in, already activated, working fine, straight from the shrink-wrap sticker). It liked a pro key I had from a microsoft action pack (IIRC, that key has several licenses attached to it), and it liked the pirated Corp key I found. Odd.

So, this really sucks for home users, I'm guessing. I'd try to test the XP home keys it gens, but I would rather avoid ticking off MS and I don't particularily want to take the time it takes to make the keys.

Just my experience.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[MainframeKiller]

ROT-13 the Base64 data!

If Microsoft come knocking on OSDN's door, tell them that if they found the Windows_XP_Key_Gen in a post on slashdot, then they violated the DMCA!

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[BattyMan]

As far as I can tell, that doesn't work.

As far as I can tell, it's obvious that the lameness filter is shoving in spaces all over the place that don't belong there. Remove all the spaces first, then you should have the real file. Then you're ready to uuencode or Base-64 or whatever's next.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Pussy Is Money]

You are so fucking lame. First you come and bore us with your crummy Windows tools, then it turns out you don't need the fucking software anyway. Moron.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[praedor]

Bzzzzt. The "license" (read EULA) is invalid and nonbinding. Ignore it or not as you see fit.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Tetrad69]

I THINK the keygen that's being talked about (maybe not the one encoded above, haven't looked at it) is something that allows you to activate XP, not necessarily a CD key.

IOW: I think this thing is supposed to give you a number to type in that is the same thing that MS gives you if you call saying "uh, yea, I changed hardware and now I need to activate again".

Of course, I could be wrong.

And also, of course, I'm not being hassled by these activation woes.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay idiot!
Wheres the difference between using the REAL key from the WinXP box you bought (no troubles for you).
Or using a self-made key? (Maybe troubles for you)

You're either an idiot or an idiot.
I guess your both :p

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Anonymous Coward]

How the *hell* does this get modded as insightful?

I think you guys are on crack.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[Anonymous Coward]

"but you still don't own the "IP". "

That's primarily because there's no such thing as "IP", except when referring to the class of protocols commonly associated with the "internet".

Use real words and concepts. Microsoft is selling you a computer program. You bought it, you can dink with it as much as you like. Its yours.

The fact that there's hidden EULA in there isn't my problem. I never agreed to it. I never clicked on the EULA. So I can decompile it, figure out how to crack it. Give the cracks (My IP, moron) to anybody on the net.

That's just the way it goes jimbo, that's just the way it goes.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[oasisbob]

As far as I can tell, it's obvious that the lameness filter is shoving in spaces all over the place that don't belong there. Remove all the spaces first, then you should have the real file. Then you're ready to uuencode or Base-64 or whatever's next.

To remove the spaces:

cat xpcrackfromslashdot.base64 | sed -e "s/ //" > xpkeycrack.zip

It worked for me.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[oasisbob]

Oops... Left out a step. (The base64 encoding). After copying and pasting the above base64 program into a file (let's say xpcrackfromslashdot.base64). Do this:

cat xpcrackfromslashdot.base64 | sed -e "s/ //" | base64 -d - xpkeycrack.zip

That should handle it. Someone else will probably come up with a more elegant solution, but that works ok for me.

Re:You have the right to use the software you buy

[BattyMan]

That oughta do it ina one-liner.

from bill gates to developers:

[edrugtrader]

i thought you guys said this was obscure!!

Microsoft

[bobibleyboo]

I don't think that they would be stupid enough to think up the stupid activation process without at least setting up a database of the serial numbers. After all how are they expected to invade your privacy if they cant track who you are where you live what products you have bought from them and their "partners" etc. They are definatley tracking those numbers the only question is weather or not they are going to do anything about it.

Re:Microsoft

[Mr_Matt]

Yeah, but here's the rub: say that,

• Joe Sixpack buys Windows XP, installs, and registers with the MS Key, all legal and marvy.
  
• Joe Script-Kiddie gets a "valid" WinXP key that matches Joe Sixpacks, and tries to install XP using the generated key.
  

Now there's two copies of WinXP out there with the key, one of them bad. Simple solution, right? First guy to use the key is legal, second guy is the pirate. But wait - suppose Joe Script-Kiddie gets the key and installs a pirated WinXP before Joe Sixpack gets home from Best Buy. Now the situation is reversed, since the first guy is the pirate. And I doubt that any serial number database MS would set up would have something so obtuse as where each individual copy of Windows is sold - it would defy logic to think that the serial number of every copy of Windows is tracked with that copy's physical location. So you can't really sort out who bought Windows legally, and who's installing with a bogus key. Sounds like a tough nut for MS to crack - well, tough shit. :)

Re:Microsoft

[Deadbolt]

No worries, the hired goons just visit each of them and ask to see the Windows XP folder with the claimed serial number sticker on the back. Joe Sixpack will meekly hand it over and Joe Script-Kiddie will silently vanish into the Microsoft Dungeons.

Re:Microsoft

[MaxVlast]

That reminds me of when a friend of mine got a new computer. They read all of the documentation and licenses. They were so scared by the MS authenticity guarantees and product license (complete with holograms) that they taped the certificate to the monitor. Every time I went over to fix their computer or do something to correct Windows, that darned MS license was sitting there in what looked like a position of most adulatory celebration. I found it quite frustrating.

Re:Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

That same point has already been made here:
http://www.nistix.com/winxp.html

Re:Microsoft

[radix-nub]

Hello, actually most companies (especially Microsoft) DO track each and every product (to the serial number) through all of the distributers and in the case of Retail stores like Best Buy, then even track which store location gets each copy. SO it is possible to at least get a ballpark idea of who is the fink. Maybe =)

Re:Microsoft

[mrbrown1602]

Its kind of interesting to know that many beta testers (including myself) for Windows XP suggested MS make it harder for people to get into the boxes on store shelves, as this is a typical way for Joe Script-Kiddie/Best Buy Employee to get CD keys, or used to be. Don't they have those impossible to break plastic packages now ?

Re:Microsoft

[Mr_Matt]

...then even track which store location gets each copy.

Right - that much is a given, but once Best Buy has the box o' software, I doubt very much that they track who buys the software, which is ultimately what MS would need. If in doubt, try buying WinXP with cash, and see if they take down any personal information. I think they probably won't. Besides, there's nothing that says that I can't buy WinXP in another part of the country (say on a business trip or something) and then take it back to where I live - that would mess up the 'system' too. It's tough luck for MS, tougher luck for their customers, and toughest luck of all for the sundering of the business-client trust relationship. And I just don't think that even MS, juggernaut though they may be, can bludgeon through this - so the Windows XP activation will remain a nuisance to those unlucky souls who happen to buy an MS product whose key has already been distributed. D'oh.

Re:Microsoft

[Mr_Matt]

So that's why they have those darned plastic boxes...you learn something new every day! I thought it was similar to a child-proof cap on a bottle of pills - you know, something to make you think to yourself "hmm, opening up a Microsoft product, do I really want to open this box?" :) Product safety and some such, you know? :D

Re:Microsoft

[erc]

Uh, you missed the point. If I use whatever-that-crack-is to generate a valid product key and activation key, I never need to register with Microsoft. So I could have 1000 copies of XP running, and Microsoft would never know. The only time they might possibly know is if I connected to the net to download updates or something, and I don't need to do that on a cracked copy of XP.

Re:Microsoft

[bobibleyboo]

good call.

Re:Microsoft

[Mr_Matt]

If I use whatever-that-crack-is to generate a valid product key and activation key, I never need to register with Microsoft.

Assuming, of course, you never intend to allow those machines to connect to the Internet. On the one copy of Windows XP I've installed, the first thing it did was check authentication keys with Microsoft - on the internet. Maybe there's another way to install Windows XP that I'm not aware of - some method to install WinXP without needing a 'net connection, but as soon as you decide to take your pirated copies of Windows online, they'll undoubtedly check with MS (say, for "upgrade information" or other "helpful features" from your favorite meddling^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hhelpful OS corp :) and you'll be up the creek, sans paddle.

But maybe I'm wrong about that...care to show me how?

Re:Microsoft

[Trinton Azaleth]

I am doubly happy that I have the Academic version of XP... I can't stand those plastic boxes. The only way to open them is with a steak knife.

Re:Microsoft

[Trinton Azaleth]

Wouldn't an easy solution be to install version of XP clean on a PC, without putting any drivers on it, register it, etc. and then copy the registry out? Replace registry on another version???

How is this news?

[Multiple Sanchez]

This is no different than the cracks for popular video games like Quake or Wolfenstein. The false serial will pass the local algorithm check, but try to register it online, and it fails a simple database lookup of serials actually issued. And the chances of generating a serial that's actually been issued by MS are beyond remote.

The only application I can see is creating a large list of valid serials and trying to bombard the authentication server with requests. But that seems both unweildy and rediculous.

Wedding gift for Taco ?

[selderrr]

Nicely done, Kathleen. He'll appreciate that.

Geek chicks rule !

Hasn't the software industry learned?

[reynaert]

Any registration key scheme can be cracked. Shareware people have know this for decades. They can make it difficult to crack (and a couple of hours to generate a few keys is quite good), but they can't make it impossible.

The best way is to verify the key on-line if the key is assigned to you, but this is only feasible with small-scale shareware programs, because in that case very few of the possible keys are assigned (so the chance of generating an assigned key by accident is very low), and the author of the program knows of every sold copy (while Microsoft doesn't know of a particular copy of XP is actually installed somewhere, or is lying in some warehouse)

Re:Hasn't the software industry learned?

[The Cookie Monster]

Any registration key scheme can be cracked

The code that checks the key can be cracked, but it's pretty trivial to create a key scheme that can't be cracked.

Just encrypt something (eg the user's name) with public key encryption and put the public key in the software.

And who would trust their machine to a Windows XP that had an invalid key but its authentication code tampered with? That kinda of thing could very easily come back and bite you.

Even if they can detect the difference...

[immanis]

Does anyone expect jack-booted MS employees to come kicking in their doors and arresting them for having a invalid product key?

Let's face it, as much as MS needs to say they will come after people who pirate their software, they aren't going to come after individuals. Unless you are killing a significant portion of their business, they are likely to leave you alone.

They would rather an individual use a pirated copy of their software than someone elses, because it still puts them in your house. They still have a good chance of branding, selling you MS Money, Office or some other product.

Can't say that out loud though. Might loose too much business.

kinda like many online games

[chronos2266]

the WinXP activation key seems very similar to the key used by many online games. sure you can play single player, but if you try to go online, you will be rejected when you try to authencate.

And the award for thinking short-term goes to...

[Tackhead]

> [ ... ] while forum operators are in general managing to keep a lid on people posting locations for the program,

The Register's editors have obviously misspelled "Now that it's made Slashdot's front page, for about 10 more minutes..."

Shouldn't it say..

[attackiko]

"If not, this generation of WPA is now surely toast"

If true, this John Lettice is now surely toast.

True Protection

[eastshores]

So long as there is a desire to have the product without paying for it, there WILL be someone capable of producing software which makes the masses giggle as they unlock their new free software. It looks as if MS is doing better if this software takes hour(s) to generate a key. I must be run on each computer individually if my understanding is correct? Eventually their efforts will pay off in the same way the rediculous measures many companies are putting in place to stop CASUAL copying of software. Either that, or it will explode into a revolution where skilled crackers have had enough and produce cracks that render the measures transparent for entire masses of people. Downloading ISO's is getting much easier these days.. they will have to do something.

The ultimate protection

[tuxlove]

There's no way to make a crackproof piece of software. If a user has access to software, he can crack that software. Period.

However, as the article notes, cracked software can be detected. No matter how good the cracker, there's little that can be done against online verification. If MS keeps a record of all valid keys, then anyone attempting to use online MS services of any kind with a genned key can be detected and denied/disabled.

This is an old trick for online games, etc. Crackers come out with keygens for such games almost simultaneously with the release of the games (or even before :), but these keygens only work for the offline version of the game. As soon as the someone tries to use that game online, they're denied access by the game server because their genned key isn't in the database of valid keys in the field.

So, this story has little import as far as MS' protection being faulty. I have no doubt they expected it, and I have no doubt that they don't care too much. Using Win XP w/o the ability to update or connect to certain online services safely will probably end up being more than sufficient protection from MS' viewpoint.

Re:The ultimate protection

[Anonymous Coward]

Then, you:

1) Fix the client that's phoning home, so it doesn't phone home anymore before connecting

2) Fix the server that won't let fixed clients connect, ala Quake 3.

What's your point?

Re:The ultimate protection

[Gaccm]

Either you or me is forgetting something. When MS releases XP, they knew every single number that is in those boxes, so if some number is used, and was not in those boxes, its obvious it was generated. BUT, what if one of those XP boxes is never sold, and some person generates that exact key, then MS will not be able to tell that that key has been generated.

I don't know if you play Half-Life or not, but there is a group of people who's sole purpose is too be punks. What they do, is whenever they get banned, they walk into compusa, but half-life again, go home record the WonID and return the package unopened. I don't know if this is possible for XP, but it sure isn't hard to do.

Re:The ultimate protection

[Anonymous Coward]

Then, you: 1) Fix the client that's phoning home, so it doesn't phone home anymore before connecting 2) Fix the server that won't let fixed clients connect, ala Quake 3. What's your point?

I'll try to be kind here. Sure, fix XP so it doesn't phone home. No problem. Until you want to connect to MS to download updates, or to indulge in some other MS online service. Then you're history because their server can easily detect your cracked version of XP and deny you the service (and possibly even disable your pirated XP install, but you could protect yourself against this). You can't "fix the server", because the server's theirs. Wonderful, you can hack a Q3 server so that it accepts cracked Q3 clients. But, you can't get into Q3 servers run by someone else, which is what we're talking about with regard to Win XP and MS services.

Use yer brain, Grasshopper.

Re:The ultimate protection

[IGnatius T Foobar]

However, as the article notes, cracked software can be detected. No matter how good the cracker, there's little that can be done against online verification. If MS keeps a record of all valid keys, then anyone attempting to use online MS services of any kind with a genned key can be detected and denied/disabled.

Soooooo... what you're saying is that if someone uses a non-MS-generated key to activate Windows XP, then they won't be able to connect to MSN, MS Instant MEssenger, Hotmail, and .NET My Services?

That's not a bug, that's a feature!

Re:The ultimate protection

[Anonymous Coward]

If you had read the story you would realize that therein lies the problem for microsoft, the writer of the story doesn't know if microsoft can tell the difference between valid keys and invalid keys.
I doubt if the way that the keys are verified as valid by the online service is by a database, but rather by an algorithm.

Re:The ultimate protection

[MongooseCN]

Using Win XP w/o the ability to update or connect to certain online services safely will probably end up being more than sufficient protection from MS' viewpoint.

With all the IE viruses going around, not being able to connect to an MS server is probably sufficient protection to the users system too.

Re:The ultimate protection

[lseltzer]

How about Windows Update? Do you really want to use a cracked version of Windows XP and not have access to fixes?

Re:The ultimate protection

[Anonymous Coward]

>> I'll try to be kind here.

Oh, thanks so much. I really do appreciate it. In fact, thank you for taking time out of your day to respond to such tripe from a doofus such as myself.

>> Until you want to connect to MS to download updates, or to indulge in some other MS online service.

This isn't the point of this article. The point is being able to run XP without a valid key. Who ever said they cared about all the other MS fluff? I certainly don't, and if I ever had to run Windows for whatever reason, I certainly won't be paying MS for it. I could care less if I have to download the service pack through some dodgy site instead of going to the "blessed" MS servers. I'd be nuts to run Messenger or IE, and you wouldn't catch me dead with a hotmail account. If the service pack added more phone-home features or disabled my install, I hack out the "features", or wipe and reinstall and don't make the same mistake.

In short, I don't care about Windows. I'm now able to pirate XP if I need to use it. So how am I affected post-install by anything else MS does? Worst case, oh no, I fdisk the S.O.B. off my system and wonder why I ever bothered with it in the first place.

Re:The ultimate protection

[DickBreath]

Maybe all the bugs (and their purported "fixes") are really an anti-piracy strategy?

Re:The ultimate protection

[DickBreath]

When MS releases XP, they knew every single number that is in those boxes, so if some number is used, and was not in those boxes, its obvious it was generated. BUT, what if one of those XP boxes is never sold, and some person generates that exact key, then MS will not be able to tell that that key has been generated.

I suspect that all those boxes on the shelves are identical. Or at least, have identical CD-ROM's.

A plausible scheme would be that the program generates a random number. Creates some complex function of that random number, and then that result is sent to The Borg, who returns you some other value that is a function of your number plus some secret borg number. Your installation being able to verify that the entered number was indeed processed by the borg is how it activates. The extensive time required to break the scheme would suggest that it is computationally expensive to perform the function that the borg performs, unless you have some other pieces of information which are borg secrets.

Re:The ultimate protection

[Anonymous Coward]

Soooooo... what you're saying is that if someone uses a non-MS-generated key to activate Windows XP, then they won't be able to connect to MSN, MS Instant MEssenger, Hotmail, and .NET My Services?

Right, so I managed to buy an "official" OEM version of Windows XP Professional whilst in south east asia. It cast me $1 (no joke). Basically I gave it a run on a spare machine and it doesn't do any checks for keys or anything. MS Messenger, .NET shit, windows updates, and other "features" work just fine. I haven't done any digging around, but it appears that the OEM release of XP (identified perhaps by an OEM key) isn't as subject to the MS spying.

Anyway...I nuked the XP partition. XP's cool and all, but too much of a toy.

Re:The ultimate protection

[ethereal]

Ah, the truth comes out. All of those security flaws are just an anti-piracy measure! What a truly twisted strategy. :)

Or, you could just use free software, get updates for free, and forget the whole mess.

Re:The ultimate protection

[deeboTux]

Woohoo!

Finally a way to stop that stupid MSN Messanger from going online every time i cough!

Re:The ultimate protection

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it works even with the cracked version. *ahem* So I've heard.

Re:The ultimate protection

[Anonymous Coward]

In short, I don't care about Windows. I'm now able to pirate XP if I need to use it. So how am I affected post-install by anything else MS does? Worst case, oh no, I fdisk the S.O.B. off my system and wonder why I ever bothered with it in the first place.

I guess by responding here I am feeding the troll (and quite a good one you are), but here goes anyway. You are a nut. A loser. Have a clue, please. You only help me make my point. The fact that you don't give a crap about XP and that you're willing to live without just about any of the driving reasons to run XP in the first place goes has no relevance to the point here. If you actually do want to use XP's features, and there are bugs in those features, you could end up having a very very hard time about it. Not everyone is willing to jump through the hoops you're willing to, nor are they willing to nuke their Windows install when they get tired of the hassle or find themselves incapable of getting around the problems they encounter w/o having a valid key. Less than 1% of Windows users would even be capable of this anyway, which, in my estimation, is just fine in MS' eyes.

Re:The ultimate protection

[Anonymous Coward]

The obvious next step with cracked WinXP will be sites offering cracked XP updates from those who did register.

And the game goes on!

For the curious

[Starship Trooper]

I was trying to decode this, but was having trouble with it until I figured out that it is in base64 encoding, not uuencode (as it appeared at first). If your Linux or Unix distribution does not have base64 installed by default, you can get it at http://www.fourmilab.ch/webtools/base64/. Thank you, Fair Use Guy, for promoting this tool.

It's not the serial number that's important.

[gpinzone]

It all depends whether or not Microsoft keeps a world-wide database of valid product keys for each and every version of Windows XP sold. I used to work for an employer that had a system that registered EACH and EVERY serial number of a product BEFORE it was sent out to distribution. We could track the usage and blacklist any of the "products" we wanted. The system even was smart enough to detect fraud based on a number of criteria (like if two serial numbers showed up at the same time). any serial numbers that existed that weren't in the database were blacklisted automatically.

I have to wonder if Microsoft has done this? I mean, logging every single serial number for every copy of WindowsXP produced everywhere in the world...and then maintaining it. That's a tall order, even for them. I think they'd get more bang for the buck by blacklisting every copy of XP that uses that "FCK" serial that was distributed like crazy.

Re:It's not the serial number that's important.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a reason microsoft doesn't seriously crack down on computers using the same serial number everywhere. OEMs use the same serial number for every computer they put the windows xp operating system on. If microsoft started blocking these oem keys then a lot of people who already have windows xp installed would be very unhappy with microsoft.

Re:It's not the serial number that's important.

[belg4mit]

Not necessarily true. At my former
employer's we had wipe the serial
as the last stage before making an image (NT).
However Microsoft's tool for doing this
has the unforutunate side-effect of restting some other values in the system as well.

Re:It's not the serial number that's important.

[randomtangent]

Well I can guarantee that they aren't keeping track of all those numbers and uses with access.

I can hear the DMCA lawyers warming up now ...

[Bob Loblaw]

Since Microsoft has a nice cache of anti-trust laywers acquired to create a vaccuum for the government, they now have a new task to throw them at.

Time to send the code underground a la decss.

I think they will let it go

[tester13]

The article makes mention of Microsoft possibly breaking illegally copied versions of XP corporate via patch in the future. They have not done this yet, and I do not think they will. Think of the public relations nightmare that would ensue if MS broke even some legitimate copies (licensed copies with wrong serials).

It has been said before, but the determined "pirate" will not be deterred by inconvenience.

I think they know its not worth their while.

Re:I think they will let it go

[Entropy_ajb]

What I think they were talking about was breaking the copies that had actually been hacked with a patch. They can do this without disabling any legit copies, because the only copies that would be effected would be the ones that someone modified(read: hacked).

Re:I think they will let it go

[tester13]

I agree with you. My point was, I don't think anyone would give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt if any copies of XP became crippled. Technically yes, there probably is a way to not disable legit copies

MS priorities?

[krony]

We'll now see where Microsoft's real Security Initiative priorities lie. They'll probably secure this issue faster than securing holes in IE or OE, based purely on the fact that it is reducing their cash flow in. Sad, but true...

Well they won't accept their license agreement...

[Nailer]

By allowing me to decline their license and give me the refund they promise if I do so, I don't see why I should accept it and activate periodically.

ncftp -u xpkey -p xpkey -P 6473 24.22.15.128

Decoder

[Anonymous Coward]

#!/usr/bin/perl

use MIME::Base64; $x = ""; while(<>) { $x .= $_; $x =~ s/[\r\n\t ]//g; } print decode_base64($x); exit 0;

Re:Decoder

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, too bad it's uuencoded and it's too short even for that...
as always, slashdot moderators are morons who moderate up everything that looks like code, lol

Re:Decoder

[Shiny Metal S.]

#!/usr/bin/perl
use MIME::Base64; $x = ""; while(<>) { $x .= $_; $x =~ s/[\r\n\t ]//g; } print decode_base64($x); exit 0;

No need to write that much. Where's your Laziness? ;)

$ perl -0MMIME::Base64 -e 'print decode_base64 <>'

"I knew I'd hate COBOL the moment I saw they'd used perform instead of do." - Larry Wall

(Btw, you can concatenate strings with undefined $x so there's no need for $x="", decode_base64 does tr|A-Za-z0-9+=/||cd so no need for s/\s+//g and exit is redundand at the end (0 is also the default exit code for argumentless exit))

Corperate codes

[Red Weasel]

Who here doesn't know of at least 1 person who has a corp code. I'm in a shop full of geeks so it was only a matter of time before someone somewhere got a hold of a decent CD key.

Add to that the number of times people will reload there machines to get it "just right". Everyone and thier brothers are using any code they can get so that they don't have to bother Microsoft in order to just play.

So now a new hack that will do it for you. To late as far as most are concerned.

Already A Crack

[Angry Black Man]

Released on 1/07/2002 was a "Universal Activation Crack" by a major warez group. I would confirm that it works, however in fear of the FBI raiding my house (a la Hackers the movie) I will say that I haven't tried it.

Re:Already A Crack

[omega9]

Such an explicit statement of inocence is an indirect statement of guilt. You're not worried about the FBI (or you wouldn't have posted at all or would have posted anonymously), you're just trying to look like a badd-ass. Trying...

When are people going to start taking pride in who they are, not who they try to make other people think they are?

Re:Already A Crack

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when has admitting to using Windows ever constituted trying to look like a badass?

want to copy xp the easy way?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just find a copy of the license pack edition - it requires no activation. I use this at work - you can even change a whole motherboard out and it doesn't say a thing. Perfect for ghost (which is what we use it for)

Re:want to copy xp the easy way?

[Graspee_Leemoor]

" you can even change a whole motherboard out and it doesn't say a thing"

I changed the mb and processor in my (legal, non-corporate) XP and it didn't say a thing either.

graspee

Re:want to copy xp the easy way?

[Anonymous Coward]

It depends on how much crap is on the mobo. If you have a mobo with on-board nic, sound, video, etc then you're going to have problems.

The Possible Dark Use of Distributed Computing

[EXTomar]

Evidently the generation of keys takes a lot of crunching and may take awhile to generate one useable key. If you want to hack out more keys or at a faster rate you must throw more hardware at it or parallelize it.

Not knowing the details of how they think keys are generated (which is probably a wise thing to keep tight lipped about it) one wonders if you can break the key generation into idependant parts. It may not be possible because it breaks the crypographic nature of the key but that isn't for certain either since MS doesn't want to make key generation the slow part in its production.

If this is true then WPA is done(as in stick a fork in it). How many thousands of people outside of the US(and heck inside of the US) who would contribute CPU to generate thousands and thousands of keys?

Re:The Possible Dark Use of Distributed Computing

[maddman75]

Evidently the generation of keys takes a lot of crunching and may take awhile to generate one useable key. If you want to hack out more keys or at a faster rate you must throw more hardware at it or parallelize it.

Finally, a use for all those Beowulf clusters we all love to imagine. :)

Re:The Possible Dark Use of Distributed Computing

[God! Awful]

Assuming that Microsoft is using public key crypto to generate the keys (and I can't imagine that they wouldn't), it's amazing to me that someone would be able to crack even one key. It is certainly feasible to create completely uncrackable keys with today's technology (although as the article points out, you can crack the OS by removing the code that checks the keys.)

I would theorize (because I've heard of this happening before) that they wanted to keep the size of the keys short, because the user might need to type it in or read it over a telephone. This would in turn restrict the size of the public key crypto they could use.

-a

new name

[graveyhead]

If not, this generation of WPA is now surely toast. If so, I guess they'll have to change the name to "Product Cracktivation" :-D Sorry, I couldn't resist.

keygen

[Graspee_Leemoor]

I was wondering about this after I heard the story somewhere else first, ( hoho ).

Most people not paying for XP are either going to be using the crack on the "trial" version or downloading the corporate version from their fave p2p network.

Thinking about the 2nd scenario, the corporate version requires a key, but doesn't need activation. The key is printed on the back of the cd case and every corporate version.rar I have seen has the same key- starting, (amusingly) "FCK..."

Anyway- the corporate versions of Win2000 didn't need a key- they filled it in for you (unless I am getting mixed-up with other MS software of the same period).

So, the big question is: Why does the corporate version need a key? MS knows it is damn easy to write it down, so there's no security there, but if MS wants to check the key when the system connects to the internet, checking against a database (oh look, 3 million people all using the same key!), then isn't this a similar hassle to product activation, only done sneakily with no dialogs ?

Presumably if you install the corporate version with the "FCK..." key and never connect to the internet then it will never hassle you or expire or need to be activated, but if you do connect to the net then it *could* be sort of activating itself by checking the key with microsoft. If this turns out to be the case then you could always block it with your favourite firewall, since as this would be a sneaky check they could hardly deactivate your machine if they couldn't connect...

Then again, we all know that MS loves home piracy and the product activation is just to stop small and medium businesses from using one cd on their whole lan.

graspee

Re:keygen

[Joe U]

"but if you do connect to the net then it *could* be sort of activating itself by checking the key with microsoft. "

And how would they do this?

Do you know anything at all about the activation system, or are you just randomly guessing?

Re:keygen

[Graspee_Leemoor]

"And how would they do this?"

Well, any way they want, e.g. querying a microsoft server, as someone else pointed out, over port 80 since that will get past most firewalls. XP could send the key to the server, the server checks, e.g. a list of widely distributed warezed keys or maybe to see if that key was ever issued, then gives xp its answer. The os can then do whatever it wants.

"Do you know anything at all about the activation system, or are you just randomly guessing?"

Yes I do know all about the activation system, but the real point is that the corporate version doesn't have product activation (supposedly as a convenience for bulk buyers, e.g. colleges, large corporations). I suppose I am just "randomly guessing"; being paranoid that since MS requires a cd key for the supposedly activation-free corporate edition they might be doing something with it.

graspee

Re:keygen

[Junta]

Well, part of the whole thing about corp edition is to reduce installation time and hassle on large corporate installs on machines that do not have internet connectivity, so in answer to the question about it needing to contact MS anyway, it doesn't *need* to. However, when I first had to roll out an XP install on our corp. edition, I decided to make it into an experiment. I took the host's MAC address and assigned it a static IP in the DHCP server. Then, when I went to install the system, I blocked and logged all traffic from the host trying to get to the outside. And guess what, the install did indeed still try to contact MS server about 3 or 4 times throughout the install (before Windows Update stuff). I think one of the attempts seemed to have something to do with the MEdia player (?), but at least two of them where MS hosts I had no idea what they would do (they were definitely not windows update hosts). With the packets dropped, the install did in fact complete, albeit it slowed down while waiting for responses from MS that never came. Has anyone done a more thorough experiment? I only logged source port, and destination address/port, no payload and since I dropped the packets I didn't see a full dialog as MS would have intended to occur. I didn't even bother to keep the log beyond the standard month, so that is gone too...

Re:keygen

[necrognome]

Perhaps M$ is keeping track of how many machines your firm's corp. edition has been installed on. This way the BSA would know who to target during the next Amnesty^H^H^H^H^H^H^HExtortion period.

Re:keygen

[shepd]

Well...

who said its against the law to use a public key if you lose yours for your purchased software? (this isn't as uncommon as you might think -- just think -- a corporation has 100's if not 1000's of licenses -- there's a very good chance one or two will get lost this year just from techs being stupid enough to leave the CD key card behind).

Now who said MS had the right to shut you down if they only suspect you have pirated their software. Shouldn't they have to prove you guilty first?

Well, there's the DMCA and UCITA, but they don't cover me, and they don't cover most users of M$ software.

This only applies to Windpws XP Corporate Edition

[CitznFish]

Why is anyone even trying to talk about XP Home edition with this key generator? Does it phone MS for you and get the activation code? NO! So all of your tirades about XP Home edition are really moot. Who in their right mind would even BUY software that requires you to phone in for an activation key?

yes.

[cpeterso]

I was thinking the same thing.

Re:yes.

[smittyoneeach]

The on-line key filter is finer than the stand-alone.
It makes sense that the company might tolerate some extra-license playing if they think it might turn into a customer acquisition on-line.
I guess. Who needs games, anyway, when /. beckons?

Heres another way to foil product activation

[mrroot]

If you already are using Windows 2000, just say, "I'm not going to spend $199 to upgrade to Windows XP when there are virtually no new features except for UI enhancements." Really, you can do anything on Win2000 that you can on WinXP.

Of course if you are running Linux you have already foiled product activation.

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[base3]

Like I tell people here, Windows XP is just Windows 2000 with some new eye candy and the DMCA/Big Brother Expansion Pack.

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[jacoplane]

And if you use Windowblinds, you can even get the Eyecandy on Win2K. Skin away!

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[ZxCv]

Like I tell people that don't use XP day-in and day-out: XP's obvious change is eye candy, but there are so many little usability enhancements, that it makes for a much better OS overall. In fact, I don't even use the eye-candy (everything set to Windows classic) and I still wouldn't revert back to Win2K.

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[ZxCv]

Have you ever used WindowBlinds? It made my otherwise predictable and stable Win2K rather unstable and sometimes downright unusable. I used it for longer than I otherwise would have because when it worked, it really was a cool product. And even at that, I think I had it installed for less than a week before the stability issues just became too much. If you have used WindowBlinds, was your experience anything the same? And if you haven't, why not?

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[base3]

Concur. Stardock is cool. They sell subscription software the only way I'll buy it, too--with perpetual right to use for components already obtained if you allow your subscription to expire. Which, of course, I haven't.

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[jacoplane]

Yeah I've used it, and to tell you the truth I haven't seen any problems really. I'm running Win2K SP2 on a 800Mhz P3 with 384MB ram. Although I've since stopped using it since I don't really care about the eyecandy. You probably want to ask this question to someone else however since I'm far from being an authority on the matter, try here:

news://news.stardock.com/stardock.windowblinds
news://news.stardock.com/stardock.windowblinds.s up port

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[base3]

Using it right now. Admittedly, it takes up a chunk of RAM that would probably be better used running apps, so I sometimes switch back to "Windows Classic." Stability has not been a problem, though it was under Win9x.

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[jacoplane]

Actually I've just turned on winblinds again, since I found a skin that I actually like. I hate all the XP themes.

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a hell of a time with it when I tried it on a computer running Win98SE. When I uninstalled it, the computer went berserk, insisting there were registry errors and that it needed to restore from a backup. The only *real* error was a line in win.ini which I promptly removed, I then overwrote all of the backup copies of the registry with the then-current one, and it still busily would "restore" the registry each reboot...

After a few months, though, it stopped. I have no idea why it did so. I did decide, though, that the default appearance was good enough.

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[ZxCv]

There's a great XP theme that looks *exactly* like that theme you linked to called EclipseOSX or something like that. Other than Win Classic and a theme called Community-Rhodium, EclipseOSX is the only one I've used for longer than 30 seconds.

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[base3]

The one shell enhancement I'd like to see in Win2K (because XP's not going to happen with WPA and that "all your box are belong to us" EULA) is the "Close group" function from the taskbar. For example, if I have IE open with 50 windows, only one taskbar entry is taken up, and "Close group" will close all 50. Other than that, I can live without the enhancements I've run across working on others' systems.

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[nameinuse2]

hell, since we're being offtopic ;)

This is one of the reasons i prefer opera. As many browser windows as you like, one taskbar icon.

in general though, wouldn't it be possible to hack together a little right-click extension to "close all instances of this" ?

Re:Heres another way to foil product activation

[base3]

Also true for Mozilla. The feature is useful for other than web browsers, though. Even more offtopic--any idea why Microsoft did just the opposite for the Office XP apps? They used to be MDI, and now are still, sort of, but each document or spreadsheet takes its own icon in the taskbar. Of course, buried somewhere in the myriad settings may be a checkbox to turn it off, but I haven't dug yet.

Don't ruin MY key

[innate]

What if someone using this keygen generates my key that has already been activated? It will look to Microsoft like the key-in-question is being installed on a different computer with different hardware. Then the next time I go to re-install XP my legitimate key won't work.

Re:Don't ruin MY key

[Fizzlewhiff]

Then you call them and talk to them. They will give you a new key.

Re:Don't ruin MY key

[Col. Klink (retired)]

So what you're saying is that Product Activation may penalize innocent users? I thought MicroSoft was trying to stop pirates, not cause trouble for its loyal customers...

Re:Don't ruin MY key

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh? It is the pirate, not MS, that is causing the harm to innocent users. This is like a criminal getting hold of a person's credit card number and charging the hell out of it. Is the credit card company to blame or the criminal? Obviously it is the criminal. So, if a software pirate were to generate an innocent user's key and misuse it, it is the pirate who is at fault, not MS.

Re:Don't ruin MY key

[andcal]

I'm pretty sure that the key itself is as long as a global unique identifier. The odds of You accidentally generating a key that someone else also generated is as slim as OJ and the "real" murdurer having the same DNA. (I mean, if we pretended that he didn't really do it).

Re:Don't ruin MY key

[winternj]

Hm, why don't you post your key so everyone who is using the keygen will check if the generated key is yours, and if it is, not use it.
;)

Re:Don't ruin MY key

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't talk sense to the monkeys, it only confuses and irritates them.

Re:Don't ruin MY key

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be such a coward.

Re:Don't ruin MY key

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it is the stupid users fault for buying and installing XP in the first place with its stupid WPA, live and learn...

For those of you who don't read German...

[oobeleck]

Or don't know how to use babelfish...

Here is the translated link from the register:

Crack and Keymaker activate Windows XP

In the Internet circulate two different programs,
which can activate Windows XP also without
Microsofts benediction completely.

The Patch of the group of Sad team consists only
one 700 KByte of a large EXE File, which contains
a Installer.

In order to de-energise the Home and Professional
versions of Windows XP, the Patch is started in
the secured mode. After a restart Windows is
completely activated.

The second tool is a Keymaker, which generates
valid D-CKeys for Windows XP Home, Professional
and Corporate as well as for Office XP and Visio XP.

In addition the program counts quite a while: In
our test generated the Tool within one night of 25
valid codes for Windows XP Home.

If such a code is indicated for the installation
of Windows XP as Product ID, the copy can be
de-energised completely ' officially ' by
Microsoft by telephone or Internet connection.

Since Windows XP on the market is, a multiplicity
of Crack programs promises to be able to go around
the activation. Most functioned however not;

the only worked method was so far the exchange of
some files on the installation CD against versions
from the corpus width unit version with a total
volume of 13 MByte. ( kav / c't)

Re:For those of you who don't read German...

[Anonymous Coward]

You gotta love Babelfish.

English translation: "corpus width unit version"

German original: "Corporate-Version"

That isn't the keygen that they are referring too.

[citizenc]

That isn't a "keygen" per sae.. it is just a program that spits out a random, probably stolen, key.

Thanks for trying, though.

It's much much worse.

[DaSyonic]

I wrote a great article about this happening before Windows XP was even released. I knew this would happen. Only, the dangers are much greater than just having the protection in product activation broken. See My Article - "Windows XP CD Key Dangers" for all the juicy details.

I had this key generator sent to me days ago by a reader. It does work, and I've since updated my article to reflect that the possibility is now a reality.

Re:It's much much worse.

[easter1916]

I wrote a great article about this happening before Windows XP was even released.

Wow, you're a great writer and you're so modest, too.

Re:It's much much worse.

[john barleycorn]

Even worse what would happen if someone coded a trojan/virus that incorperated that used this keygen to register as many reg codes as possible. If it was widespread enough it would make quick work of the "virgin" codes and cause alot of problems for a great many microsoft customers.

Ive always agreed that this was a bad idea, but i never really though about how bad until today.

Ah....

[clandaith]

Taco's getting married....

I'm still too excited about that to comment on anything right now. ;)

Oh give them a break, would you?

[geophile]

I mean, this was probably done before Microsoft spent 20 business days plugging all their security holes.

You are misinterpreting the goal of WPA

[targo]

Many people here don't perhaps understand what WPA is about. WPA is NOT about making it "impossible" to copy Windows. WPA is NOT about making Windows registration "unhackable". These have NEVER been the design goals of WPA. There are other tools for these goals, they are harder and costlier to implement than the current implementation of WPA and probably more inconvenient for the user. MS was aware of the other possibilities but decided that they were not worth the extra money and effort.
Why? Because the goal of WPA is to keep office workers from bringing home copies of WinXP, installing them on their home machines and giving them to their friends. That was the ONLY goal. This kind of behavior makes up 90% of revenue lost by everyday piracy and MS is pretty happy to get this 90% back by not spending much effort in the process. As about the the guys who use key generators and other ways of getting around the registration process - I'm very sorry to disappoint you but Microsoft doesn't even notice you guys.

What good is being able to generate a WPA code

[base3]

when Microsoft can just tamper with your copy of Windows so codes generated by the crack don't work anymore?

More importantly, why would anyone want to go through the trouble to run XP? What makes XP all that over Win2K?

Re:What good is being able to generate a WPA code

[mini me]

What makes XP all that over Win2K?

On my computer, dual displays only work in Windows XP (or Windows 98).

Re:What good is being able to generate a WPA code

[base3]

Bummer. I'm running a G450 dual display even as we speak under Win2K. Heresy though it is, I never did getting around to doing the work to make dual head work in Linux.

Re:What good is being able to generate a WPA code

[mini me]

Yes unfortunatly my video card (ATI Rage Mobility) doesn't do it in 2K. I even had to use some unknown drivers found on a Geocities page to get it to work in XP. That's the only place I could find OpenGL drivers for my card as well.

Losers...

[Anonymous Coward]

Stupid losers. They suck so bad at security they can't even secure their own best interest.

It's gotten so bad, they are just turning into the laughing stock of the entire industry.

What more does Taco Want today ?

[cOdEgUru]

Gets to be the luckiest guy on a Valentine's Day.

Gets to watch M$ getting its Product-Activation A#$ getting kicked around.

I am sure Gates is gonna try and get Taco divorced now..

Where can I get the keygen?

[Ryu2]

Post links please -- I'm already running a corporate version, but this might be useful for some of my friends.

Re:You are misinterpreting the goal of WPA

[Todd Knarr]

Nice theory. Too bad it runs afoul of one inconvenient fact: the copies of WinXP in use in most companies do not have WPA in them at all. Only the retail versions get the activation, OEM and Enterprise-license copies are essentially pre-activated or don't require activation.

Kinda makes mac look good...

[jpellino]

sell a box per OS, and you avoid this nonsense. when was th last time you saw anyone selling pirated macos?
of course you make much less money...

Re:Kinda makes mac look good...

[base3]

Of course, Apple can afford to provide the OS when they charge twice the going rate for the equivalent Intel/AMD hardware. Even so, Microsoft and its bedfellows are starting to make the Mac look like a darned nice platform next upgrade, especially given OSX.

So what?

[The_Shadows]

It was cracked. Big deal. Everyone is saying "Now we can use this and won't have to register it with MS!" or "They probably have an archive of keys and can see the fakes, who will then be arrested!"

No. Here's what I say: So what?
Great, it's cracked. You know what? The number of people who will wind up using the crack is probably insignificant to MS.

Newsflash! There have been anti-activaition cracks from day one with more efficiency than this. How about the cracks that allow you to never register? How about buying a version of XP Pro that doesn't require activation (Corporate(expensive) or Academic)? How about pirating one? I looked on hotline the day of XP's release and there were already several servers claiming to have the Corporate Version of XP Pro.

To top this all off, how many people will really use this? I'll give you a hint: proportionately few. The vast majority of people who will upgrade to XP either don't know or care that there is a hack, or are businesses that have to have legitimate software (activation and all). Well, I suppose they don't have to, but most businesses consider it a good idea.

So that's my thoughts. It's cracked. It's a great feat and all, but the number of illegal copies of XP isn't going to suddenly, dramatically surge.

Re:So what?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Newsflash! Microsoft has been hailed as a leading security and IT expert. This was one of the major features of XP. THIS WON'T MAKE MS LOOK GOOD. period.

Re:So what?

[SilentChris]

I agree totally on the non-activation versions. You can get them practically anywhere, and they offer the same functionality without all the activation tomfoolery.

Re:So what?

[ipfwadm]

Please... When has MS looking bad ever really hurt them? Do we remember back not so long ago, during the anti-trust trial, how many times their people left the stand with egg on their faces? And how much has that hurt their market share? Sure this might make them look bad to /. readers, but they looked bad to us already. The average PC user isn't even going to hear about this, much less care.

Re:So what?

[praedor]

So...the whole point to doing the whole bullshit WPA would be? Just for the hell of it, I s'pose. "Sure there are cracks but this WPA will not stop crackers, just stop 'honest' people from doing what they wouldn't do anyway."

So it is merely a consumer ripoff to stop people with 'legit' copies of WinblozeXP from installing it (properly and rightfully) on a couple of their personal computers? If that's it, then all these people NEED this crack so they can fairly use THEIR software.

Re:So what?

[SpaceLifeForm]

It may get some people to try XP, and then actually buy a legit copy.
Of course, some may be disappointed and revert to what they were using before.

Re:So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that's what the trial period before you have to activate the product is for.

People still don't get it?

[Glonk]

MS doesn't force you to register Windows XP at all. It's a seperate process from activation, and is completely optional.

Activation sends a hash value, which is one-way encrypted, to the MS servers to keep track which CDs have been "turned on" and associates that with the encrypted hash value.

The ONLY way MS could ever find out who activated it would be to go by IP (if you're worried about this, go by phone), or the MAC address in the hash value. But seriously, why do they care?

Broken?

[Squeezer]

the script does nothing.

[adam@awilliam adam]$ cat winxpactkey
#!/usr/bin/perl

use MIME::Base64; $x = ""; while() { $x .= $_; $x =~ s/[\r\n\t ]//g; } print decode_base64($x); exit 0;
[adam@awilliam adam]$ ./winxpactkey

Re:Broken?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's generally customary to PROVIDE INPUT to a programme before expecting output to come from it.

Dumbass.

Re:Broken?

[Squeezer]

what am I supposed to input into it?

Re:Broken?

[Anonymous Coward]

Try this:

% cat "i am an idiot" | wxkeygen.pl > /dev/null

Once you've executed that command, you will have root access on all of Microsoft's secret FreeBSD Hotmail servers. This will give you a backdoor from which you can insert a row into their mySql authentication database and thereby obtain a free license for Windows XP.

Have fun!

Re:Broken?

[YetAnotherLogin]

$ cat base64.input | perl decode.pl > keygen.exe

Re:Broken?

[sllort]

what am I supposed to input into it?

echo "moron" | ./winxpactkey

--
You're Reading Managed Agreement

Re:Broken?

[Anonymous Coward]

or rather "... > keygen.zip" not keygen.exe. you get the point. (dont forget to strip spaces and get rid of the "begin ..." line)

Re:Broken?

[homb]

come on guys:

save the base64 data into a file called 'xx'
then:

cat xx | perl winxpactkey > xpkeygen.zip

then unzip the xpkeygen.zip file.

Re:Broken?

[Spam Bandito]

Don't you want to do:

cat winxpkeygen | winxpactkey

or something? (Since it reads from stdin)

Re:Broken?

[t]

How sloppy.

./decode.pl keygen.zip

t.

Re:Broken?

[YetAnotherLogin]

Well, excuuuse me. I didn't write the original script, you know. I just told him how to use it. And yes, I agree it's sloppy script.

Re:Broken?

[Shiny Metal S.]

the script does nothing.

It's a filter.

"This is the Unix philosophy. Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface." - Doug MacIlroy, the inventor of pipes.

You have to pipe your Base64 data through it (or similar one) like this:

$ echo Qml0ZSBteSBzaGlueSBtZXRhbCBhc3MhCg== | perl -0MMIME::Base64 -e 'print decode_base64 <>'

(it's one line, $ is the shell prompt) or like this:

$ perl -0MMIME::Base64 -e 'print decode_base64 <>' < inputfile > outputfile

(also one line) or you can omit the "<"

$ perl -0MMIME::Base64 -e 'print decode_base64 <>' inputfile > outputfile

so you don't write the inputfile content to filter's standard input, but give the "inputfile" file name as the fist command-line argument. Every good filter should work like this. That way you can use input divided into parts

$ perl -0MMIME::Base64 -e 'print decode_base64 <>' input-part1 input-part2 > outputfile

which has the same effect as

$ cat input-part1 input-part2 | perl -0MMIME::Base64 -e 'print decode_base64 <>' > outputfile

but internally works totally different, which is however transparent in Perl, thanks to the magical <> diamond operator.

Re:Broken?

[t]

Actually /. ate my redirectors. I wasn't refering to the script but rather the use of 'cat' since you can redirect a file into a program without having to 'cat xxx.txt | '. No offense meant.

Re:The ultimate protection - wait for SP1 :)

[Flubu!]

Here's a funny little story. About a year ago, we started having weird problems with microsoft office2K at the company where I used to work. It seemed that, after installing the MS Office SP1 service pack, no office application would work. The splash screen would appear, and poof, the application would then mysteriously close.

After scratching our collective heads, my IT coworkers and I found this little article at the MSDN knowledge base :

OFF2000: Program Quits Immediately After Starting When SR-1/SR-1a Update Is Applied (Q255503)


SYMPTOMS

When you start one of the Microsoft Office programs listed at the beginning of this article after you apply the Microsoft Office SR-1/SR-1a Update, the program quits immediately after it starts.

CAUSE

Office was installed by using a CD key that begins with GC6J3 .

[...]

If the product CD Key begins with GC6J3, the Product Key is not valid in Microsoft Office 2000 SR-1/SR-1a. Contact the reseller of your Office product to obtain a valid product CD key, or purchase a valid Microsoft Office 2000 product. After you obtain a valid product CD key, continue with the following steps.

It seemed that a group of people installed unlicenced versions of the office with a keygen they'd found on the net. It so happened that all the keys generated started with GC6J3.

As soon as the service pack was installed, nothing worked again. Coincidence? Uh huh. And swine are now flying out of my posterior...

Same thing happens if you install a free demo version of Visio2000 or MSProject2000 that some people get in the mail too :)

So I'm not really worried that microsoft is loosing sleep over the current keygen. Just wait for the 1st XP SP.

Key Database

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I'm pretty sure they have a database of the keys issued.

I believe it's MySQL or Postgres, can't remember which.

Not a big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think this is a big deal persay, but what happens when you go and buy a copy of XP (oh my, pay for software?) and some script kiddie happened to already generate and activate with *your* CD-key (the one *you* paid for)?

Include a movie clip, as "part of the OS",

[dpilot]

and then you can protect the whole shebang under the DMCA.

Right now, it's not illegal for someone to make a key generator, it's just copyright infringement to use it *for a pirated copy*. Presumably it's legal to use the key generator to activate a legitimately purchased copy of XP.

But by including a movie clip and citing DMCA, the mere act of writing a key generator becomes a crime.

Re:Include a movie clip, as "part of the OS",

[Anonymous Coward]

You are such a moron.

It could be protected under the DMCA if it was protection against copyright, but since it isn't, it's not.

Please read the DMCA before you continue to sprout off non-sense. It's about circumventing copyprotection schemes and CSS is not the only one in existance.

Re:Include a movie clip, as "part of the OS",

[ShavenYak]

Please read the DMCA before you continue to sprout off non-sense. It's about circumventing copyprotection schemes and CSS is not the only one in existance.

Actually, as seen in the DeCSS case, the courts have decided it illegal to circumvent an *access control* technology, which is what CSS is. CSS doesn't prevent copying a DVD, it prevents viewing it on devices whose manufacturers haven't paid their license fee to the DVD cartel.

Since WPA (or any key system) could also be construed as an access control technology (it doesn't prevent copying, it prevents unauthorized use), it is possible that the DeCSS case could be used as precedent to make keygens illegal to write or distribute or even link to.

Re:Include a movie clip, as "part of the OS",

[ShavenYak]

Damn, muffed the tag. I should have used the Preview button. :)

And I have to wait two minutes to add this extraneous comment.

Very important

[geekgreg]

If you are attempting to find this keygen, be warned! There is a keygen out that will delete all your files. Read more at http://www.cdfreaks.com/news2.php3?ID=2543

This actually happened to me

[Anthracks]

I bought Sierra's "Tribes 2" game a number of months after it originally came out, and when I went to register and sign into the online portion of the game for the first time, it came back with a message that I was using a pirated CD key! Considering I had just brought the game home from Electronics Boutique and read the key off the back of the shrinkwrapped case, I figured this was unlikely.

Eventually I got in touch with Sierra and they had me fax them a photocopy of the store receipt and the back of the case clearly showing the CD key (which was a bitch since I don't have a copier). Within minutes of doing so I was back in business. I can only assume Microsoft has a similar policy, where if you can prove ownership, they'll unblock your key.

Re:This actually happened to me

[spectecjr]

This actually happened to me (Score:4)
by Anthracks (anthracks@deathsdoor.com) on 01:56 PM February 14th, 2002 (#3010218)
(User #532185 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
I bought Sierra's "Tribes 2" game a number of months after it originally came out, and when I went to register and sign into the online portion of the game for the first time, it came back with a message that I was using a pirated CD key! Considering I had just brought the game home from Electronics Boutique and read the key off the back of the shrinkwrapped case, I figured this was unlikely.

That was a bug in the initial release. Some idiot had coded up the error messages wrongly.

What it should have said is that "The username you have chosen has already been taken" rather than the key.

This is why the game was massively patched when it first came out.

Simon

Re:This actually happened to me

[Dwonis]

Why should you have to prove ownership of something you've already bought? Interesting how software companies get to be police, but without any of the restrictions on them.

Re:You are misinterpreting the goal of WPA

[targo]

Nice theory. Too bad it runs afoul of one inconvenient fact: the copies of WinXP in use in most companies do not have WPA in them at all. Only the retail versions get the activation, OEM and Enterprise-license copies are essentially pre-activated or don't require activation.


But in bigger companies the Windows boxes don't sit on bookshelves either (at least they shouldn't be) because software gets installed over the network or at least in some sort of centralized manner, so people couldn't bring the boxes home. But there are plenty of small (4-10 people) companies where software boxes are just on the secretary's bookshelf, everybody can borrow them and do whatever they want. WPA was created to discourage this behavior.

internet authentication

[DaCool42]

I'm curious as to how MS's authentication system works. Does anybody have a packet sniff of it? I don't have any windows XP boxes to try sniffing.

Re:That isn't the keygen that they are referring t

[seizer]

Whoever modded the parent to "flamebait", is an idiot.

The keygen has a date (hardcoded, not just a "touch"ed file or anything) of 06/08/01 which means it's very much not 0-day k-l33t warez...

So as the parent says, this is NOT the keygen they're talking about.

On stealing random keys

[Pac]

It would be a marvelous feat, to craft a program capable of stealing random numbers. Imagine the cryptanalysis breakthrough it would represent if I could steal your random private PGP key out of the blue... :)

Seriously, the keyspace for Activation Keys is huge beyond your wildest dreams. The probability of generating a duplicate key in the lifetime of the Sun is very small.

Re:On stealing random keys

[Anonymous Coward]

twas an oversimplified explanation: they aren't randomly stolen keys, but rather, randomly chosen from a list of (already known) stolen keys.

Fine print

[cduffy]

Of course, when I say "except onto your own computer...", that presumes that you bought your copy. If you didn't buy your copy, of course you have no rights to it.

Let me go back to the example used by a parent post. Ford can't modify their note to say "your car uses our patented engine" (or their copyrighted microcode in the onboard computers) "and while you may own the car you don't own the IP it embodies, so you can't use your car unless you agree to only have it serviced by factory dealers".

Old news

[grimmy]

There's several key gen's out there, and also several ways to disable activating XP.

Ohh and did I mention there's also an activation code generator? :)

Very good. Tried reading the post yet?

[thumperward]

'valid' implies that the keys passed Product Actication and thus online checking. As Homer would say, D'oh.

- Chris

this is not the one mentioned in the article

[Anonymous Coward]

i decoded and ran it. it is just a database of know keys. it randomly picks one. the one in the article takes hours and this one takes less than a second. i modded it down as offtopic. moderators check the content before modding up.

Re:You are misinterpreting the goal of WPA

[saarbruck]

As the previous reply said, most corporate XP installs don't need keys.

WPA was designed to prevent "casual copying" where you buy one copy of the OS and install it on 2 or 3 PCs in your house.

One of the reasons that Microsoft has such enormous market share is because of this very feature of previous versions of Windows. They figure now that once everybody's had their first few "hits" for free... they'll pay through the nose for more.

I seriously doubt this will happen. I have a network of 4 PCs a home, and while maybe on the large-ish side, this is not uncommon for a middle class family with kids in school (or your average software engineering geek ;-). It'd be great if all the PCs were running the same OS for ease of networking and software compatability, but until someone can explain to me why I should fork over $150 for each PC, when most of what they do is check email and write the occasional english paper, there won't be any XP running at my place.

Microsoft has realized that there just aren't any new must-have features in their products and they have to resort to watchdog tactics (WPA) and business "discount" pricing models (where you're forced to upgrade every so often or you lose the discount) to keep the money coming in.

It's a shame really. There's a lot of good talent working at MS. Too bad they squander so much of it.

Lameness Filter

[Tom7]

I can't believe how often the lameness filter has rejected my totally sensible posts, yet, it has no problem with a uuencoded binary!

took all night to generate 25 keys

[Anonymous Coward]

Anybody thought that this may be a nice weekend project for distrbuted.net? let's through it in there and see how many keys we can have with in a weekend :)

Your point is?

[sethamin]

This makes no difference to MS whatsoever. The whole point of WPA is not to stop dedicated and knowledagble computer users from finding or using valid keys; it is to stop Mom and Pop from installing someone else's version of Windows. If you told your Mom, "oh, you have to use this little keygen program to get the key", then she'd be a whole hell of a lot less likely to pirate it than if you just said "Use the installation code on the back of the jewel case".

Good god, who here ever thought WPA was going to stop the pirating of MS software?
*prolonged awkward silence*
Yeah, that's what I thought.

Re:Your point is?

[Anonymous Coward]

"oh, you have to use this little keygen program to get the key"

What mommy must learn is that if she plans to use a computer anyway, running the damned program and getting the key is just a LITTLE more difficult then reading it off of the back of the CD. Why is this so difficult? It must be assumed that if mommy wants to use this new OS, that she has SOME experience with computers. So why is it so hard to double-click on an icon, click on the little box that says generate/make key, and copying the output to a notepad? Where is the difficulty? Why is it soo much harder? please explain.

XP...no way.

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks to product activation, I will NEVER, EVER buy another Microsoft product. I wouldn't go near XP with a barge pole :)

WPA not meant to stop crackers

[tekman]

WPA is simply not meant to stop crackers. I mean, there are all kinds of tricks out there you can pull during installation to fool the setup procedure into not installing wpa, et cetera. WPA's main target is the small business who buys one copy of Windows and installs on all 10 of their machines. Now M$ gets ten times the profit out of them. Most people who run small businesses aren't computer savvy enough to know about keygens and cracks, and they'd probably be very worried about getting caught if they used one. Microsoft probably doesn't care very much if everyone at slashdot installs windows without paying (actually, they might be happy do get most *NIX geeks to install windows).

allow me to ramble

[Planesdragon]

Sure, you own the CD. But you are not allowed to make the derivitive work of the software on the CD that is commonly known as an "installation." In order to do that, you need to agree to the license.

Or, at least, I believe that's how the law works. IANAL, but it makes sense this way.

To continute your hypothetical example, it's just as if Ford patented a crucial part to the car that had to fit a certain way--no one else is allowed to make that part while the patent is valid, and so Ford can achieve their monopoly on car parts.

Or, to use an even less popular law: Ford encrypts the car's computer. They lease deconversion machines & software to auto mechanics, and as terms of the lease they need to display that they are "ford certiifed." Hence, you now cannot get your car serviced properly at any service station that is not "ford certified." If someone tries to, they are either doing poor work, or they're violating the DMCA.

(the above example works even better with a leased car, with service included at the dealership you bought the car from... and you aren't allowed to get it serviced anywhere else or you break the lease.)

P.P: I really hate car leases. :( Work o' the devil, I tell ya!

Re:allow me to ramble

[cpt kangarooski]

17 USC 117 permits the creation of any copies necessary in order to use a legally owned copy of some piece of software. This certainly sounds quite similar in language and intent to permitting installation.

Re:allow me to ramble

[cduffy]

Sure, you own the CD. But you are not allowed to make the derivitive work of the software on the CD that is commonly known as an "installation." In order to do that, you need to agree to the license.

Nope. An installation isn't a derivative work. They used to claim that you needed a license for your machine to make a temporary copy in RAM for the software to operate, but post-DMCA that doesn't hold up any more (such copies now explicitly fall under fair use).

It's pretty uncertain what the consideration really *is*, so the validity of these licenses are in question right now. If your state hasn't passed specific legislation making these licenses valid (I think two have), it depends on how good your lawyer is and what the judge ate for breakfast.

IANAL, but I've taken a few classes on civil and constitutional law and read the UCC for fun.

Re:allow me to ramble

[tkrotchko]

What if you buy software, no license on the outside, and never install it.

Instead, you start poking around with the code that's on the disk.

How can a click-EULA apply then?

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm simply trying to understand the thought process behind these laws.

Taking it one step further, if I buy a program from Egghead (work with me), and click on the EULA, you can argue I agreed to something. Whatever.

Then I buy a 2nd copy of the same program. Does the EULA from the 1st copy bind me to the 2nd copy? Or are they separate transactions?

Re:allow me to ramble

[Planesdragon]

What if you buy software, no license on the outside, and never install it.

Instead, you start poking around with the code that's on the disk.

How can a click-EULA apply then?

Honestly, I think it doesn't. If the stated activation of the license is the click, and you don't click, you aren't bound by the EULA.

OTOH, you are still bound by the DMCA and regular copyright laws... so as long as it's not encrypted and you're not doing anything that regular law would prohibit (multiple installations), you're fine.

Cross any one of those lines, and you're just as guilty as if you click "I agree" and then rail on you. The specifics of what you're guilty of are a moot point, though: unless you're a gross pirate, I can't imagine it being worth their time to tackle you in a case.

IANAL, just so you know. (As for the multiple EULA part... "I don't think so, as long as it's not a site license.")

The keygen is not the real final solution

[Ryu2]

The aforementioned program is NOT the best solution. It only generates CD-Keys, you still need to contact MS, give MS your key (and hope they don't notice it's generated) and get your activation key.

Most people don't want to contact MS in the first place -- perhaps worried they could trace IP-addresses...

The ideal crack would be a program that took a CD-Key as input, and generated a activation key as output, just like Microsoft itself.

Does such a program exist?

Re:The keygen is not the real final solution

[rudy_wayne]

I haven't actually tried it yet, but I've downloaded the key generator and it's running now.

According to the (very brief) documentation with the program, it doesn't just generates keys -- it generates volume license keys, which means no further activation required once you enter a working key.

Link to download site

[Anonymous Coward]

The keygen can be found here.

This is not the software people are talking about

[germanbirdman]

I don't even have XP, nor any other XP product (my only windows is the one that came with my IBM thinkpad which is 98), on my desktop I use linux, but I was curious, so I debase64ed this program, virus scanned it and tested it.

It only contains 4 keys.

If you click on about, it says:

"This is the first of many XP keygens to come. As new numbers are being discovered, they will be added to the final version. Email us for more info on this and other keygens! crackware_y2k@hotmail.com"

A common myth.

[MrScience]

VB compiles with the C++ engine, and has for the last few years. No more p-code (unless you are dumb enough to enable it). Some VB tasks are actually faster than C++ counterparts, due to the different optimizations in the intermediate files.

Of course, badly written code will run just as slowly in both environments... and VB definitely allows for people to write badly. But don't knock the language for operator error.

And, yes, you can write inline assembly in Visual Basic. You just have to know what your doing. :)

Re:A common myth.

[Anonymous Coward]

And, yes, you can write inline assembly in Visual Basic.

No you can't. Unless you use a DLL (but that's not really inline then)

Re:A common myth.

[ethereal]

You can do pointer arithmetic in VB - see http://www.mvps.org/vb/index2.html?tips/varptr.htm . Don't ask why I needed to be able to do this - it's a sad sad tale.

Dunno about inline ASM, but I'd like to see an example of how to if it's possible...

Re:A common myth.

[Peaker]

VB being useful is the common myth.

Its a braindead language with absoloutely no use, except for the "good IDE" which allows for easy creation of crappy GUIs that won't even resize correctly.

Everything that's "easy" with the VB language is trivial, and easy with any other language. Many things easy in other languages are insanely difficult in the VB language. Ask yourself: Have you ever written non-trivial _code_ in VB? Either you have and you know its not a simple, easy language, or you've just drawn pretty buttons and wrote a COM object property access line which is just as trivial in any COM-enabled language.

Re:A common myth.

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever written any non-trivial code?

Re:A common myth.

[DodgyGeezer]

"Its a braindead language with absoloutely no use"

Either you're lying or the job listings on the internet and in the newspaper are. And, I'm not referring to the braindead part of your comment.

Re:A common myth.

[chris_mahan]

VB was my first language, and I do like it, as that. It's a bike with training wheels. That's it.

Re:A common myth.

[Anonymous Coward]

Better analogy...it's just the training wheels. :)

Re:A common myth.

[chris_mahan]

You don't put training wheels on a 1100cc Honda do you?

Re:A common myth.

[Dudio]

Check out Matthew Curland's Advanced Visual Basic 6, specifically chapter 11. It's not true inline ASM, but it's "very close". Sorry for not posting the code, but it relies on copyrighted modules from the companion CD, so it wouldn't be of any use.

Re:A common myth.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, one of these guys might.

Re:A common myth.

[Anonymous Coward]

>Many things easy in other languages are insanely difficult in the VB language.

My personal example is database access and modification.

Sure you can quickly get the data out of the database with the data control, but just TRY to put any in without screwing up.

Recordset.Bookmark
Recordset.Movelast
Recordset.DO_WHAT_I_SAY_NOT_WHAT_YOU_THINK_I_MEA N

Re:A common myth.

[MrScience]

The example you give refers to DAO, not VB. BTW: Movelast was fixed in ADO.

Re:A common myth.

[MrScience]

Why, yes, I have. I've developed in VB since version 3, for 8 years. I've been a Sr Developer/Analyst consultant for 4, and my last contract made well into six digits at Universal Studios.

I've made use of free threading, owner drawing, and subclassing from VB 4 on. Just about the only thing I haven't been able to do is execute injected VB code in other processes, ala CBT Hooks or VirtualAllocEx/WriteProcessMemory/CreateRemoteThre ad. And the reason for that is VB stores function pointers in tokens, which do not exist in the memory space of the copied function.

The argument "Many things easy in other languages are insanely difficult in the ___ language." can be said for any language. All languages are simpler in one context or another. All languages have their nitch. VB just happens to have a nitch in rapid application design, and has the strength to do 99% of what VC++ does. Heck, even Python (to pull a language you have experience with) has it's nitch. :)

Re:A common myth.

[Peaker]

the job listings on the internet and in the newspaper are [lying]

You claim ALL those listings lie?

Seriously now, when taking partial sentences you can twist some words rather nicely.
I said it was useless except for creating crappy GUI's, which is what most companies use it for and what's its in the paper for.

Remember to remove the extra spaces

[Anonymous Coward]

For those of you doing a cut & paste, remember that Slashdot inserts a space after the 50th character on each line to get things to wrap.

:%s/ //g

Man the news is slow...

[mackman]

The program includes its date as 08/06/01, seems it took the press awhile to pick up on this crack.

DCMA's knocking on their door now....

[mblase]

Obviously, if the software author is German then the guy doesn't have much to worry about yet. But if anyone in the US tries re-distributing this key generator, won't this be a violation of the DCMA?

Re:DCMA's knocking on their door now....

[Anonymous Coward]

NO! It won't be a violation of the DCMA, but it will be a big violation of your EULA that you happily accepted when you opened your XP jewel case.

Moronic mother fuckers.

Re:DCMA's knocking on their door now....

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you live in the United States, where the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has cast significant doubt that he "happily agreed" to anything. And there's no need to use profanity if you actually have a point.

~~~

Bow to Xenu, not to Bill Gates

[TheMidget]

Don't worry. There is only one institution in the US which is powerful enough to censor the mighty Slashdot. And Micro$oft is not it.

Re:Bow to Xenu, not to Bill Gates

[linzeal]

Scientology? Whack job celebs that think xenu took all the overpopulated souls in the universe and blew them up in a volcano with nuclear bombs, I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP.

Re:Bow to Xenu, not to Bill Gates

[Anonymous Coward]

"Killed/Injured Israel 268/961 Palestine 982/17406"

I hope Israel improves those ratios.

They've done more with their strip of desert in 50 years than the palentineans did in 2000 years.

Funny how those ratios seem to be so lopsided in the Isreali's favor all the time.

P.S. I'm not jewish, either. I just recognize they're superior to the other "people" who live there.

Re:Bow to Xenu, not to Bill Gates

[grungie]

I'm not a nazi, either. I just recognize they were superior to the other peoples who lived in their Lebensraum

So what ?

[Etyenne]

Windows XP is irrevelant anyway ...

who' buying it?

[Anonymous Coward]

if you are using a key gen, more than likely you didnt buy it in the first place....

This is a shame

[The OPTiCIAN]

We should be supporting Microsoft in their defense of Windows licencing, because it's really good for linux.

Like I tell people here

[Anonymous Coward]

Well stop it because you're wrong. There any many enhancements, two big ones being much better game compatibility and using the DVD acceleration of your video card.

Re:Like I tell people here

[base3]

Which, for the people I'm advising, have no use whatsoever. And if it did have any use, I'd advise them to forgo those enhancements over their privacy and ability to change hardware without approval from Chairman Bill.

That sucks!

[Anonymous Coward]

it came back with a message that I was using a pirated CD key ... I got in touch with Sierra and they had me fax them a photocopy of the store receipt and the back of the case clearly showing the CD key

if you can prove ownership, they'll unblock your key

You know, if a company wanted me to PROVE that I was innocent of "piracy" before I could use a product I'd paid for, I'd tell them to shove it up their ass - I'd then take it back to the store and return it as defective (which it provably is.)

We're the CUSTOMER dammnit, they exist to serve us - not the other way around.

This is why I'll never buy another iD product (after the Return to Castle Wolfenstein CD-Key debacle.)

Re:That sucks!

[F452]

You know, that bitterness will eat you up inside.

Re:That sucks!

[Dave_bsr]

You know, if a company wanted me to PROVE that I was innocent of "piracy" before I could use a product I'd paid for, I'd tell them to shove it up their ass - I'd then take it back to the store and return it as defective (which it provably is.)

Maybe you should blame the pirates - because you know, none of this is their fault...

Re:That sucks!

[Dave_bsr]

I know, next time i'll use SARCASM to get a point accross. stupid mods. wouldn't understand it if I used the tags. *sigh*

Re:That sucks!

[Monte]

...I'd then take it back to the store and return it as defective (which it provably is.)

...and then the store puts it back on the shelf, and the next person who buys it has the same problem, and takes it back, and...

You might want to write on the box that the key is already registered, just to save the next poor schmuck a little trouble.

I seem to remember that EB had a policy of "lending out" software to their employees (so they could become familiar with it), then re-shrinkwrap it and sell it. Betcha that's where the "pirate" key came from.

A better analogy...

[mangu]

Ford says, "you bought the car, but you didn't buy the keys". Now you have the right to tow your car to your garage and let it sit there.

And, of course, you can't have a locksmith duplicate your keys if you lose them, because locksmithing is illegal under the DMCA. Please, understand this, we need the DMCA to give an incentive to software and entertainment producers to keep churning out their creations. After all, which is more important: having some way to get into your home if you lose your keys, or making sure your kids will have an uninterrupted supply of first-person-shooters?

Re:A better analogy...

[cduffy]

Ford says, "you bought the car, but you didn't buy the keys". Now you have the right to tow your car to your garage and let it sit there.

But if you buy a piece of software, it comes with the implementation of the IP built in! You don't need to get anything else extra -- it all came on the CD which (as part of the general property rights you obtained when you purchased it) you already own the right to use.

Think of it this way: When you buy a program without a EULA, you have the right to use that program without any additional agreement from the copyright owner, no? Now, if you already have that right in cases where there's no clickwrap license on the CD (and if it were otherwise, using software without a EULA would be illegal!), why do you need to purchase it separately via agreeing to an end-user license agreement?

It runs in Wine!

[Anonymous Coward]

I decoded it with uudeview, unzipped and tried to run in Wine. It asked for MFC42.DLL. I found it on google and put to the same directory. It worked! Benchmarking showed that I'll find a new key every 14 minutes. Wine Is Not an Emulator, indeed!

The first key has been found while I was writing this comment. Wine rules!

OH NOOO!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Please stop with the logical arguments!!
You are ruining people's fantasies about sticking it to MS!!
Like the fantasy about costing MS $100 by buying an XBOX for $300 but not buying any games (because MS loses $100 on each XBOX). Of course, this plan glosses over the fact that anyone who does this is out $300 themselves in the process, but don't let logic stand in the way of these "let's stick it to MS" people!!

Internal MSFT Memo: Redmond Campus Downtime

[lww]

To: Bill Gates, Chief Software Architect, MSFT

From: XP Activation Team

Sir, the XP Activation team would like to sincerely apologize for today's unfortunate occurence. In order for you to better understand exactly why this happened, we would like to outline the following sequence of events:

1) Per the mandate from Sales and Marketing, every single machine on the Redmond campus has been upgraded to XP, including the XP Activation servers. (By the way, we would like to congratulate Procurement on the expedited delivery of ten new servers - while traffic has not substantially increased, our ability to process requests seemed to require additional hardware after the upgrade. Technical Support has informed us that nothing is wrong with the XP system itself, they believe our code is not optimized so we are investigating this issue).

2) In response to the recent posting of a so-called "XP key generator" by the Rebel Alliance, we turned on the "UnauthorizedKeyLockDown.asp" page that you designed, wrote and had us install right into the production Activation servers.

3) Immediately after turning on the module, all valid Activation and Authorization requests were denied while all invalid requests were approved. We are attempting to trace the source of this problem - we currently have it narrowed down to the "UnauthorizedKeyLockDown.asp" page. As this page contains over 10000 lines of code, we have yet to identify the root cause of the problem.

4) Additionally, it appears that once an authorization request is denied, the "UnauthorizedKeyLockDown.asp" page locks up the requesting computer, forcing it to display an animated glove which proceed to make several inappropriate gestures and repeatedly shouts "Die OpenSource scum!!!"

5) Becuase the XP Activation servers actually run on XP, they attempted to authorize themselves - while normally this request is approved, please see item 3 above.

6) The XP Activation servers responded correctly to the UnauthorizedKeyLockDown commands. Nor can they be unlocked until they can access a functioning Activation server. All valid authorization attempts from any client continue to receive the UnauthorizedKeyLockDown commands.

7) Our machines are now among the several thousand computers affected across the campus.

8) While several suggestions have been made on how to remedy this problem, all of them have procedural or policy issues for which we are waiting a response from Legal. For example, can we downgrade the XP Activation Servers to Windows2k? Our license agreement specifically forbids this, so we would need a waiver. The same thing is true for trying to use an invalid key - we have strict no-piracy policies which we have not been able to obtain permission to workaround.

9) At this point, we have no estimated resolution for this issue. Because we already have an open issue with Technical Support (see 1 above), they are unable to provide any further assistance until that issue is closed, which we are unable to currently accomplish (see items 1-8).

Please provide us with some guidance on how to proceed,

Sincerely, the XP Activation Team.

Re:Internal MSFT Memo: Redmond Campus Downtime

[SpaceLifeForm]

To: XP Activation Team
From: Bill Gates, Chief Software Architect, MSFT

Just install Linux on a box so I can fix it!

Sincerely, Bill

P.S. Hurry!

Re:Internal MSFT Memo: Redmond Campus Downtime

[Anonymous Coward]

Brevity is the soul of wit.

I just couldn't be bothered reaading
that essay for a little laugh.

Cut it down for crissakes!

WinXP

[vbrtrmn]

Interesting .. i'm using Windows XP right now .. i don't remember ever activating it.

Except they are not chosen from a list

[Pac]

From the linked Register article one gathers the keymaker is generating independent keys. To do this one need to have broken the key generation algorithm.

But then again, the code in the parent-most post of this thread may well be doing just what you said. I wouldn't know. I don't have any use for XP AKs in this Mandrake 8.1 box of mine... :)

As a matter of fact, I am just waiting to test StarOffice 6 and then move my whole office and home LANs to Mandrake or Suse.

There is a complete workaround

[Anonymous Coward]

After entering the key, there is a registry entry that you can simply set to "1" which makes XP think it is already registered. Once done, happy trails! It was a nice but failed idea. Those who want a copy will obtain one, and workarounds abound.

Article is too Anti-M$

[jeff13]

Hey, I'm usually the first to jump on ole M$. But this article is floating in it's own little world, as if every other program on the planet doesn't get the same treatment.

Microsoft has begun their (half-assed) security push, but they haven't claimed this sort of thing is paramount at all. So why jump on one company for the most common hack on the Net? Even if it is Microsoft. ;p
Raspberries to the Register! Booo! My God! I'm on Bill's side!?! Someone check Hell for the weather...

Am I wrong or is there something better than WPA? Thought so.

Re:Article is too Anti-M$

[Trinton Azaleth]

I take every chance I get to badmouth MS, and for good reason. Have you read the 50 page summary of their anticompetitive and other illegal practices? The whole company deserves to be burned to the ground. I would stay on Bill Gates' side for long, or you will get burned. M$ is going down, and it is only several years down the road. You bet their are things better than the WPA... lets just say they are in development and not for public scrutiny at the moment...

From http://www.neowin.net/comments.php

[LuxuryYacht]

"Do a search at google groups: http://groups.google.com/googlegroups/deja_announc ement.html
search for all_xp_suite_keygen.zip
You'll find 2 hits. There's a link in the first hit to a site hosting this file. "

dongles would be good :)

[timothy]

I actually think that dongles for MS software would be a good thing (for me), for a simple, greedy reason, which is that the more annoying it is to buy / use software, the better alternatives start to look.

There will always be a catch-up game of copy-hassle vs. cracking, and avg. everday folks are probably not ever going to be actively using software cracking tools to run the newest version of Word.

[And as has been pointed out many times, companies benefit hugely from certain types of unauthorized use -- Adobe, for instance, probably would not *really* like to restrict PS to legal users, because it would hurt them especially in a world with lots of low-priced mostly-workalikes.]

timothy

Re:dongles would be good :)

[timothiy]

I actually think that dongles for MS software would be a good thing (for me), for a simple, greedy reason, which is that the more annoying it is to buy / use software, the better alternatives start to look.

In other words, instead of focusing on improving existing software, let's make existing software suck more.

That's my contribution to this converstation.

-Bill

Actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

You CAN protect against keygens, using strong cryptography. Just generate a random number, and sign it with your (ie, the developer's) private key. The key is the random number + the signature. The software can verify the signature using the corresponding public key (remember PGP?). This means that even if you have the source, you can't make a keygen for that program.

There are 2 other attacks that work though.

1) Crack the program, disabling the product activation code.
Solution: make the PA code obscure as hell, make sure every service pack / patch / whatever overwrites the code, so it has to be cracked again. This akes it VERY inconvenient for crackers / users to keep up.

2) Re-use a key. By far the biggest threat.
Solution (the only one ... without quantum comps that is :) : online registration, keep DB of keys to detect re-use. And if you find one ... send in the feds.
I suppose that's what they're doing, and there really is no way around it if it's properly implemented. Users hate it, but hey, money is more important than customers' feelings.

Re:Actually...

[tuxlove]

Crack the program, disabling the product activation code.

Didn't I say in my original posting that any software can be cracked? Doesn't matter if someone figures out a keygen or obviates the actual need for one, they're both cracks. And regardless of which method is used, it still won't get around it if MS' servers verify your XP installation by comparing to a key database or algorithmically comparing.

Mod parent down

[Breakfast Pants]

The reason no one has said it is because the ORIGINAL post said it you dumbfuck. "But, oops, no one would notice between a crashing windows and regular windows :)"

Maybe...

[Mr_Matt]

I can only assume Microsoft has a similar policy, where if you can prove ownership, they'll unblock your key.

Maybe...but I'd say eventually, the number of installations of WinXP will vastly outrank the number of installations of Tribes 2, wouldn't you think? Besides, the cost factor comes into play as well...$50 for the game, $200 for the OS - somebody "3133t" enough to get a keygen will certainly decide it's worth his while to have his pal who works at the local Egghead's print out a bogus receipt. There's also the time-honored technique of dumpster-diving for receipts; combine all this with a photo of a random WinXP box, an overworked MS hack being paid $5.50/hr to listen to Joe Sixpack complain about how his brand new OS doesn't activate, and you still have a huge logistic headache for Microsoft. But that's what you get when you decide that your customers aren't worth your trust. :)

Re:Maybe...

[DickBreath]

There's also the time-honored technique of dumpster-diving for receipts

You know, there should be a ScriptFu to "Create Your Own Realistic Looking Receipt."

Re:Maybe...

[connorbd]

(ahem) How about the person behind the counter who's stuck doing what they're doing because they have trouble with job interviews, or their skill set is too narrow to find a job, or they're trying to raise a family but haven't been in this country for very long...

You know, I've worked plenty of those jobs. I wouldn't call myself lazy (I have profound social anxiety problems, but that's another story). It's assholes like you that tend to make people like me want to pour hot coffee in your lap.

Minimum wage *has* to be a living wage because sometimes it's all that someone can get. If that means you pay $1.19 for your cheezy weezy burger instead of $.99, that's the way it has to be. Don't forget: we're in a recession. It could be you flipping burgers for shit pay two weeks from now, so shut the fuck up.

/Brian

Re:Maybe...

[Platypii]

Yea, but what happens when the local burger joint has to lay people off to keep costs down? Now you have some people earn WAY more than they are worth, and others who have nothing! I don't understand how you can think that someone should be paid more than their work is worth. Someone has to pay for that dicrepency... sometimes it's the customer, sometimes it's the poor schmuck who was "last hired, first fired"

Re:Maybe...

[servanya]

Ok, that was very well put. Thank you. A "learning wage"....excellent.

If I had any mod points left, I'd give ya an "insightful", even though it wayyy fucking Offtopic. :-)

If we didn't have welfare, we might not be in a recession right now.

Oh, and that was a nice economical analysis from the burger flipper below. LOL Min. wage should NOT be livable, then it would force people to learn to do SOMETHING. :-)

Re:Maybe...

[Mr_Matt]

Initiating karma burn in 3...2...1...

Minimum wage is supposed to be a learning wage, not a living wage...

You're an arrogant little cock, aren't you? Pardon me while I feel bad that you're paying an extra dime or two for a fucking hamburger while somebody else slaves away earning billions for somebody else, while they themselves earn only enough to pay for maybe half of their living costs. There's some half-witted retard two posts down or so that thinks that without welfare, we wouldn't have a recession - this, despite the wage-slaves at the local Mickey D's probably aren't on fucking welfare...they have jobs, after all and you, who apparently doesn't think that everybody in this country deserves a livable wage. Isn't that why people came to America, to get out from under the thumbs of the ruling class and find a way to make a living, despite (horrors!) maybe being somewhat behind the curve? Equality of all humans means jack shit to you, does it?

--Begin wanton flamage--

I guess it's just not good enough for you, Oh Mighty Fast-Food Devotee. But we all see right through you, you fucking prick: all the "hard work" and "education" you do (and that your mommy and daddy probably pay for anyways) will never allow you to grow up enough to help out somebody who's on the skids, or is just trying to make their way through this fucked-up world. Your own life is so pathetic that you have nothing better to say about those "below" you than gripe about their existence on subsidence wages in this, the greatest country in the world. Well fuck you and the horse you rode in on, dickhead.

--End wanton flamage--

Besides, numb-nuts, you're not subsidizing the guy for whom a house and car is "enough" (like not being a bitch of consumerism is a bad thing...) - you're subsidizing the three-piece suit who runs the chain. Remember that, next time you feel self-righteous when purchasing fast food. Jackass.

Karma burn complete...

Eh, what the hell, it was worth it. :)

Re:Maybe...

[Mr_Matt]

Man, I can be a mean sonufabitch after a few beers. :) Sucks too, 'cause I liked this ryan guys' last few posts, but c'mon, man, give the po' man a break. It's bad enough these guys gotta work at McDonald's, right?

sorry about the explosion...nothing to see here...move along, move along. *sigh*

Re:Maybe...

[kmellis]

(offtopic karma burn...)

I don't understand how you can think that someone should be paid more than their work is worth. Someone has to pay for that dicrepency...

That's true, but it doesn't prove your point. By itself, superficially, all that it is an argument against economic regulation of any form. It's certainly a superficial argument against taxation, of which the minimum wage is functionally equivalent. In fact, not only does something like taxation only transfer wealth, it almost always generates an economic "friction" that reduces wealth creation.

So that shows that all taxation is bad, right? Wrong.

In the most obvious example, taxation allows the funding of a law enforcement agency that protects citizens from violence. If an armed gang can roam the marketplace at will, stealing anything they like, the marketplace will fail and wealth creation will dramatically plumment. Therefore, taxation which allows for funding of a police force pays for itself, in spite of the fact that it creates an economic inefficiency, because it protects the very existence of the market. This is an example of why it's boneheaded to claim that all regulation of markets is bad -- some regulation ensures the proper functioning of the market. Financial disclosure and, in general, accounting transparency regulations play an important role in safeguarding the market for securities in public corporations. I mention this to allude to the current Enron scandal.

Beyond regulation of economic activity to protect against "violent" acts, there is also beneficial regulation that supports and protects the infrastructure of the market. Roads and highways, and public education are good examples of this.

With that in mind, it's important to consider that the legal minimum wage certainly acts as a public good, in that it very well may be the case that were those earning minimum wage to earn what they're "really" worth, that amount would be far, far lower than anything approaching a "living wage" -- and that the resulting poverty would generate any number of secondary costs to the economy as a result. There would undoubtedly be more violent crime, as for the very least skilled it would be economically more "rational" for them to wield a gun and take their chances with the law than it would to work at a job that they were "worth". To combat that, we'd have to pay for additional much more highly skilled public workers (police officers) at inflated rates to compensate for their physical jeopardy. In just this limited sense, the extra twenty cents for your burger may very well be offsetting what otherwise would have been an extra thirty cents in direct taxation to pay for police protection.

I think it should be pointed out that even in a recession, the American economy has a very low level of unemployment. Those who have argued against minimum wage laws have always predicted that the resulting economic inefficiency would destroy jobs. The problem is that the difference between the current unemployment rate and any sort of realistic "full emplyment" is very small -- it is now understood that the last one or two percent is intractable. Even the complete abolition of a minimum wage wouldn't eliminate that last bit. In fact, there's good reason to believe that trying to achieve a literal full employment either by regulation or deregulation is a losing proposition in that the harder the rest of us push for the last two percent to work, the more expensive, one way or another, they'll make it for us to do so. They'll either be unbelievably unproductive workers or criminals. Neither come cheap.

I'm all for rational economic analysis. Unfortunately for the ideological conservative, such rational analysis does not always lead to the conclusions that they favor. Some taxation and regulation is undeniably economically advanatageous.

Re:Maybe...

[Billly Gates]

Hey, after the .com crash I went as a helpdesk tech making 34k a year to stocking shelves at a staples for $7hr for 50-60 hours a week. I also live right near the poverty line of 10,000 a year. I work my fucking ass off in a real job lifting heavy boxes off of trucks, working all nighters on monday's to stock sat, sunday, and monday's loads to even dealing with asshole customers. Sorry but my minimum wage is my living wage and not a learning wage. People like your self piss me off. Try buying a house and convincing a bank that your $10,000 a year salary will pay for it. "What! Why are you laughing... go to where?....." . Hell $50,000 is five years pay assuming I don't buy anything.

Were in a recession and if your not carefull you may be my next co-worker who is being over worked and under payed. Well I am sorry you have to lose $.20 of you hard earned pay for your cheeseburger which you probably earned in under 1 min in a nice air conditioned office while it took my 10 minutes of back breaking labor to earn it. By the way I am also college educated. I just had bad luck.

Re:Maybe...

[servanya]

[i]Equality of all humans means jack shit to you, does it?[/i]
Yes. Darwinism doesn't allow for everyone to be equal.

[i]By the way I am also college educated. I just had bad luck. [/i]

Dude - you make your own "luck" as you call it. Why were you laid off? Hmm.. Lack of motivation leads people to working min. wage....especially if you have a degree. Lack of drive. Lack of skills. Lack of ambition. And...if you work 55 hours - you make $20,2020 per year, not $10,000. Maybe your math skills have someting to do with your lack of employment opprotunities?

Wow, there goes my Karma.

Re:Maybe...

[servanya]

hehe - that's $20,020. Maybe I need a typing class :-)

Re:Maybe...

[ryanwright]

You know, I've worked plenty of those jobs.

As have I. My first four years of employment were at minimum wage jobs.

Minimum wage *has* to be a living wage because sometimes it's all that someone can get.

So why don't we make it $10 an hour then? Why not $15? That's all some people can get, and we wouldn't want them to have a hard life, right? Let's remove any and all incentives for them to do something better with their lives by giving them enough money to live a middle class lifestyle. If I lost my job tomorrow and couldn't find another one, you're right, I COULD be flipping burgers for shit pay. But you know what? I wouldn't piss and moan because I'm not making enough money. I'd be out looking for better work every single day. I sure as hell wouldn't be so arrogant to think my new job should make my house payment.

Besides, the idea that "that's all someone can get" is bullshit. With all of the opportunities in America, anyone can get a better than minimum wage job. All it takes is a little effort.

And my original message wasn't a troll, though I fully expected it to be modded down. It was genuine frustration over the mindset of people just like yourself (and damn near everyone else who replied to this thread). People who honestly feel that minimum wage earners can't do something better for themselves. Unlike you, I believe in people. I believe that everyone has the ability to get a decent job, to do something better for themselves. I don't buy the "Some people aren't smart enough" bullshit. EVERYONE is intelligent in some way. I know a guy who doesn't seem very smart at all when you talk to him, and he worked minimum wage for years because he thought he was too stupid to get a better job. Well, turns out, he understands how to build things, and he finally got himself a construction job that pays $25 an hour. He owns his own home now, never worries about money, and stays fit to boot. So don't tell me that some people are incapable of getting a better job.

Minimum wage IS a learning wage. McDonalds jobs are important: They teach you work ethic and give you something productive to do with your time. But they're not meant to buy a house and raise a family on. They never were.

Re:Maybe...

[ryanwright]

and you, who apparently doesn't think that everybody in this country deserves a livable wage

There's where you're wrong: I do think everyone in this country deserves a livable wage. I simply don't think McDonalds was ever supposed to qualify, and forcing it to do so actually puts the workers at a disadvantage. The more money you can make flipping burgers, the less incentive you have to find yourself a real job where you can make real money. This is especially true when you start talking about couples working minimum wage jobs together - the higher it goes, the more they make, and the happier they are. It's a pity that people like this may never find their real talent (everyone is talented in some way, and everyone can be successful) because they're lured into a false sense of wealth.

The federal minimum wage is perfect. It's enough money to barely scrape by on - and I do mean barely. When you're living such a meager existence, you've got all sorts of incentive to research more options. When minimum wage is $7 an hour on up, between two people you're making $30k a year and that's not half bad. If you don't believe in yourself, why would you ever believe you could do better? (If you're making $5.25 an hour, you're almost forced to do better)

See this post for a longer explanation. And thank you for the compliment - I'm glad you enjoyed my other posts. It's too bad this one was so misunderstood. (Personally, I also enjoyed your post - the part about fucking the horse I rode in on was especially funny. :) )

Re:Maybe...

[ryanwright]

Sorry but my minimum wage is my living wage and not a learning wage.

Only because you choose to make it as such.

Hey, after the .com crash I went as a helpdesk tech making 34k a year to stocking shelves at a staples for $7hr for 50-60 hours a week.

So you're obviously talented, why are you wasting that intelligence working at Staples? Sure, when you have no money and no job you'll take what you can get (I would, too), but this should only be a short term thing for you. Which means it's NOT your living wage, it's your "getting by for a short time until you can find something better" wage. I really doubt you'll spend the rest of your career stocking shelves. If you do, I feel horrible for you: You can do better. You already have.

Re:Maybe...

[connorbd]

Dogmatic conservatism doesn't prove your point. The minimum wage should be enough for a person to scrape by wherever they're living. Put more simply, let me reiterate: two weeks from now it could be you flipping burgers. Chew on that.

/Brian

Re:Maybe...

[ryanwright]

The minimum wage should be enough for a person to scrape by wherever they're living.

It is. $5.25 an hour = $910 a month. Make it $750 after taxes. Where I live, a 2 bedroom apartment goes for $400 including utilities. Another $350 is enough for a single person to barely scrape by on. And I do mean barely.

Put more simply, let me reiterate: two weeks from now it could be you flipping burgers. Chew on that.

I already "chewed" on that and gave you an answer. Now it's my turn to reiterate: If I lost my job tomorrow and couldn't find another one, you're right, I COULD be flipping burgers for shit pay. But you know what? I wouldn't piss and moan because I'm not making enough money. I'd be out looking for better work every single day. I sure as hell wouldn't be so arrogant to think my new job should make my house payment.

Re:Maybe...

[ryanwright]

Let me clarify, I'm not saying we should pay people $4 an hour, and I agree that the minimum wage should be enough to "barely scrape by on." I'm simply saying $7 an hour is too high for a minimum wage and I think the federal minimum wage is right on target. That's all.

Re:Maybe...

[Mr_Matt]

Touche. I flame like like there's no tomorrow, you reply with grace and acceptance. It's clear I'm in the presence of a better man than I, so I apologize for the excessive flamage. I gotta learn to stop reading /. late at night! :(

And I see you point - it would be good to help everyone out of wage-slave jobs, and the part about increasing minimum wage above the federal minimum does make sense. I have some points of contention - for example, a grad student right now makes about the same as a McDonald's employee, and works harder and under more stressful conditions - certainly to somebody flippin' burgers and takin' it easy, the whole idea of higher education seems like a waste of effort. And I guess I still think there's people to whom a mere $25k a year is sufficient, and if they're happy, then so am I. But you do make a very good point.

And you're certainly welcome about your posts being good - after all, you're the one that wrote 'em. :) It burned my butt to flame someone who speaks with clarity and makes reasoned arguments - a real rarity on /. - and I'm glad to see that I can learn the error of my ways still. Thanks for the reply!

cheers,

Re:Maybe...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where I live, a 2 bedroom apartment goes for $400 including utilities.

Where do you live--Mexico?

Re:Maybe...

[Anonymous Coward]

Do not apologize. You were right the first time. Just because this guy was to much of a pussy to defend his belief that the minimum wage is to high. This is a typical tactic of the weak. They feign injury when exposed. Never feel ashamed when you go for the throat. Only feel ashamed when your arguments are indefensible. ie. The minimum wage is to high because 2 bedroom apts. go for $400 where I live.

Re:Maybe...

[el_chicano]

I sure as hell wouldn't be so arrogant to think my new job should make my house payment.

So people who have minimum wage jobs do not deserve to own their own homes and should be stuck paying rent the rest of their lives?

Many of the people flipping burger are minorities, who already are having problems with economic racism (lack of quality affordable housing in minority neighborhoods, redlining in non-minority neighborhoods, etc). Saying that they should not own their own homes is tantamount to condoning economic racism.

It trips me out when White Ditto-heads spew crap like this. They seem to think that just because they know how to operate a computer better than the average person it means that they know what they are talking about. As soon as they open their mouths it is immediately obvious that they do not have a clue...

Re:Maybe...

[ryanwright]

So people who have minimum wage jobs do not deserve to own their own homes and should be stuck paying rent the rest of their lives?

If you want to live in a socialist country, go elsewhere. In the United States, people are supposed to work for what they own, not have it handed to them because "everyone should own a home." If you don't want to pay rent for the rest of your life, go find a real job. Don't expect to be paid $10 an hour for flipping burgers.

Many of the people flipping burger are minorities, who already are having problems with economic racism (lack of quality affordable housing in minority neighborhoods, redlining in non-minority neighborhoods, etc). Saying that they should not own their own homes is tantamount to condoning economic racism.

Don't pull the racism bullshit on me. My next door neighbor is hispanic. He works hard for a living and owns an expensive home, new vehicles, etc. A black friend of mine manages a local (fine dining) restaurant and as of a few months ago finally saved up enough for a down payment. He's now shopping for home as well. "Disadvantaged minorities?" Please, spare me the tears. Life is what you make of it. Minorities are more advantaged here than anywhere else. Thanks to affirmative action, they can get into college and obtain financial aid much easier than "White Ditto-heads" such as myself.

It's sad to see that racism is alive and well on Slashdot. Why you even brought it up is beyond me.

Re:Maybe...

[Mr_Matt]

Usually, I ignore ACs, but this one's too good to let pass by:

Do not apologize. You were right the first time. Just because this guy was to much of a pussy to defend his belief that the minimum wage is to high.

No, I apologize because the guy responded to personal attacks with dignity - a rare quality in this age of rampant flamewarrior-ism. He has his points - not that I necessarily agree with them, but he chooses to engage in discussion, freely and openly, and that's something that I respect. Voltaire said something about disagreeing but defending to the death the right to disagree (note to lamers/kwhores: I know the quote. I'm just using it in context. Don't reply with the quote, or you will look like a tool. :) Oh, and he chooses to make his arguments while logged in in case you didn't notice, Mr. Anonymous Coward. Who's the pussy now?

Never feel ashamed when you go for the throat.

Ugh. Just because I'm willing to be aggressive in making my point does not mean I need to be soulless to do it. It's that kind of crap attitude that landed us in this mess. I suggest you grow up and realize that even those with whom you disagree deserve respect. Or at least the logged-in ones, you AC sissy-mary. :)

Only feel ashamed when your arguments are indefensible. ie. The minimum wage is to high because 2 bedroom apts. go for $400 where I live.

I never did figure out this poorly-phrased argument. It's not surprising, really - I didn't expect you to argue cogently, even with somebody with whom you nominally agree. Here's a hint - morons like you make my life harder, because those with whom I disagree can, during an argument, point at posts like yours and say "But you've got these guys on your side!" To which I have no reply. Shaddup, already, you're making us look bad! :)

Another late-night quasi-flame from /me. Oh well!

Re:Maybe...

[Brainless]

Hell, this starts a whole nother conversation...unemployment.

About 10 months ago, I was a laid off web programmer. Rather then looking for a job, I saw a chance to make around $400 per week or every other week (Don't remember exact pay schedule.) Rather then going and looking for a job, I sat on my ass all day and played video games. At your expense. During this time of 2 months, I started talking to fellow unemployment bums. To this day, I have not met one person that has a legit reason to be on unemployment.

Granted, there are people who deserve unemployment, but looking back at the situation I realized I had money in the bank for living. I saved up my 3 months pay in case something happened. Everybody should do so. If you get laid off, then it should be on your back to figure it out. Not you, not me, not any tax paying american. I would MUCH rather take a job flipping burgers or bagging grocries for $5.50/hr then sit on unemployment again. If you need the unemployment, it means that your skillset is not applicable any longer, which means you need to expand your skills and broaden your horizon.

If I had my choice, I would get rid of unemployment and only support people willing to go to training courses for other career paths.

Not really sure how this applies to your post...but it's not stopping me!

Freenet!

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't take long for this to appear on Freenet, apparently - KSK@Windows+XP+Key+Generator is being passed around on IRC channels all of a sudden ;>

heh

[onShore_Jake]

'nuff sed

Re:The ultimate protection - wait for SP1 :)

[DickBreath]

Suppose MS eventually requires all programs to be signed in order for Windows to execute them. Now only developers who use MS tools could produce executables. (Kinda like a Playstation.) Now, let's further imagine that executables produced include code so that they will deactivate improperly licensed versions.

Even if the "signed code" scenerio (or nightmare) never materializes, various major products (i.e. read "Big Corporations") could still include code to disable improperly licensed versions. Buy a new game for your duaghter, bring it home, install it, your entire system quits working.

Re:The ultimate protection - wait for SP1 :)

[SectoidRandom]

This i find quite disturbing, it was mentioned in the Register article too.

Come to think of it I wouldnt be supprised if with some of the patches from windows update MS had quitely inserted some 'bugs' to counter various commonly pirated cd keys..

Hmm, they are fighting a loosing battle though, and in the process giving another large group of uses even more reason to think MS software sucks! Im sure in many cases people who arn't willing to pay for MS software would be happy at least _trying_ linux!

Yeah it's so hard to get a pirated copy

[Mer Fer]

Anybody with half a brain knows they can download XP off of Morpheus, or just get a cracked version from a programmer. My version of XP doesn't even have an activation code!

This story has serious errors

[RMSIsAnIdiot]

The other major circumvention of WPA is via leaked keys for corporate versions, which are unlocked simply by entering the key, rather than it being necessary to activate over the Internet or by phone. Again, Microsoft can invalidate these keys at service pack time, and it has done so at least once in the past.

BZZZT. Guess what, I've seen this version before (don't worry, I'm running a properly licensed version of XP :-). It requires no product key. It's called the "volume licensing version" by Microsoft. For use when corporate customers buy licenses in bulk...

Correction

[cduffy]

That last sentence should be:

Now, if you already have that right in cases where there's no clickwrap license on the CD (and if it were otherwise, using software without a EULA would be illegal!), why do you need to purchase it separately via agreeing to an end-user license agreement when one does exist?

Re:That isn't the keygen that they are referring t

[DJPenguin]

Im glad someone mentioned this.

I was rather suprised when the second key it generated for me was the exact one I used to install my *cough*legal copy of XP ! Thought it was rather too much of a coincidence :)

Why Bother?

[NiceGeek]

The corporate edition of XP has been floating around warez sites for months..no product activation whatsoever.

Re:Why Bother?

[2MuchC0ffeeMan]

i know there's alot of l33t warez kiddies who say this...

but there's no corporate version of windows XP ...

it's just a poorly cracked version of a legit copy, labeled as a corporate release...

Anybody cracked what makes XP "corporate" yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's probably something like the registry entries needed to turn WinNT client into WinNT server - the most expensive binary words in history if you were stupid enough to pay for them.

Re:That isn't the keygen that they are referring t

[DarkEdgeX]

I looked at it, and if you open the file in a text editor, you can see (towards the end of the file, well, more than halfway in atleast) that there's a few hardcoded keys in unicode format. It's definately not generating them on-the-fly. The other poster in this thread however appears to have the real file (the one talked about in this article and The Register's story). Plus the file date is sometime this month, vs. the other files date of sometime last August (2001).

XP Sucks

[Whardie Jones]

and you are all script kiddies.

Re:XP Sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

You posted that under your actual account?

XP Pro key...

[finity]

I'm sitting here looking at a key for windows XP Pro that lets you skip past the product authentication step. It starts with FC... It really works, my friend tried. I'm too busy having fun with linux to care.

Interesting and all, but...

[DarkEdgeX]

...unless I don't understand the story, this is a product key generator, not a circumvention of WPA. IE: This thing generates keys for when you have to install the OS; not the response string for when you have to actually ACTIVATE the thing (over the phone, for example).

Something that generated valid install keys AND produced working results for the over-the-phone activation would be much more newsworthy. (If I'm wrong on this though, let me know because maybe I don't understand the way in which MS generates responses to the WPA info/hash it's sent.)

Wrong one

[tweakt]

Wrong key-generator. Thats the older one that spits out one of five keys. The second one posted is the one that does a brute-force search of the keyspace.

READ: TIP for SMP users of this app!

[DarkEdgeX]

This key generator isn't multi-threaded-- if you want to get the most out of this app (ie: generate a ton of keys) run ONE instance for each CPU in your system (so if you're a lucky bastard running a quad boxen, run four copies). Otherwise it'll just peg one of your CPU's and you'll miss out on (conceivably) twice the possible keys (or the same number of keys in half the time). You might also want to run Task Manager (if you're running NT/2000/XP) and change each processes affinity to a single CPU (keeping the code (and cache, presumably) limited to one CPU per instance).

I can see PC review webzines using this thing to benchmark how fast the latest processor is...

Re:READ: TIP for SMP users of this app!

[SpaceLifeForm]

It *IS* a benchmark program. Look closely.

Re:READ: TIP for SMP users of this app!

[DarkEdgeX]

Uh, I know.. that's what I was talking about, but currently no hardware review sites USE IT AS A BENCHMARK. I was saying it'd be interesting/funny if sites DID start using it.. eg: "This new Athlon/Pentium 5 20 GHz cranked out a valid reg code in UNDER a minute!". I think ya missed the point I was trying to make. That this would be used alongside the other standard magazine/webzine benchmarks like SiSoft Sandra and Quake III Arena time-demos.

LOL, try that with 10,000 corporate desktops...

[Moderation abuser]

Aint gonna happen, so the version of Windows that'll be pirated will be the corporate version.

Re:LOL, try that with 10,000 corporate desktops...

[billcopc]

Indeed, as long as they do seshual fav0rz to corporate clients, like disabling product activation from Select Edition releases, then the whole thing will be a waste of time and effort since people will just get their hands on the corporate cripple-free edition, which is damn easy if you or someone you know works for a large company or gov't organisation.

Re:That isn't the keygen that they are referring t

[WhiteKnight07]

The key that you get from MS is generated from a key that is generated by WinXP setup based on your hardware, obviously there will only be so many keys for one hardware configuration. So of course it would spit out the key that you got legally. That's what it's supposed to. The fact that it did proves that it is able to emulate both the process by which setup generates a "first key" and the process by which MS generates a "final key". IE: The fact that it spat out the key you got legally proves that the keygen works perfectly.

This is issue is moot for people who don't buy XP

[paranoidia]

If you want XP, and don't want to pay for it, this whole issue is moot. You simply get the Corporate edition of XP. This has the auto-check routine written out of it my MS so they could give it to corporations with thousands of computers. Also for Universities and the such to distribute. Simply get one of these, and any working key, and ur set. People who would use this, wouldn't, simple as that.

Anyone reminded of...

[Amiasian]

... Steve Jobs saying something to the effect of: " We believe that pirating (music) is a cultural issue, not a technology issue. " No matter how hard they try, people will always find a way past these things. I hate MS, but as a suggestion to them, make it less -desirable- to have your products pirated. Uhm... actually, you are doing that already.

its called random()

[jasonrfink]

You cannot key a system statically. Nuff said.

Re:You are misinterpreting the goal of WPA

[Marton]

You're wrong here on two counts.

It's not in MOST companies. Only in really big ones. I doubt that corporations with less than a couple hundred (thousand? whatever) workstations could afford volume licensing.

Then, Joe sitting at his office computer running XP that the IT guys ghosted for him has never seen the actual product key. The IT guys have it, and they only used it once when installing the original HD to be ghosted. Then they tucked it away somewhere. I have never seen a volume licensing EULA, but I'm pretty sure they can be held liable if the key gets out.

There's a good reason you don't see but one corporate XP key on the 'net.

As for the keygenerator, it took maybe 5 minutes to find it after I read the article on The Register. (I haven't started reading the thread... it would have been handed to me here.) Then I fired up an undoable vmware box, copied the .exe over, disabled its networking (you never know!) and started the thing. It's processed 130 keys so far, and found two valid. I haven't checked them myself, probably won't; after all, I have a number of legit keys. But in any case, it appears to do its job.

interesting note:

[Dave_bsr]

My school is giving out windows products to all cse students. they offer the ISO's after a login, and email you a key. as far as i can tell, everyone gets the same key. so a million XP's are coming in from around this area with the same key. So mebe this keygen just pops up one of these keys that microsoft can't block, cuz there are a million people out there using it?

Question though: this is the product activaction code, right? so does ms really check that, or the product key when you go to update and stuff? I dunno.

You don't need just a single PC.

[Marton]

I've been running it on my Athlon 1800+ WITHIN a Vmware box for 40 minutes, and it already found 5 valid out of 160.

Why would you need a bigger performance on this?

If you were a real badass pirate risking years in jail, and you were planning on selling 100 licenses per day, you'd only need one box.

Let's ignore the fact that Vmware has a negative impact on speed. So within one hour you would get 7.5 keys. In a day, you'd generate 180 keys, more than you need. Get an SMP box and run two instances - 360 keys in 24 hours.

Another Strike for the rebel force

[merbywerby]

Go Rebels!!

Hehe

[quintessent]

Yup. I think the Register has been smoking something serious:

"If one morally questionable teenie can successfully generate one operational key by leaving their home PC running overnight, then Redmond has quite clearly blundered."

Microsoft made it known long before Windows XP ever came out that the keys were only meant to prevent "casual piracy."

--------
"If you can't find any news, make some up."

Institutional Version

[SparafucileMan]

Actually, if you own a copy of the institutional version, you don't have to regiser with MS and can feel free to copy as much as you want. The keys are just there to make things difficult, as they know they'll stick make tons from business and universities that can't afford to be caught using pirated software.

Re:Institutional Version

[Trinton Azaleth]

Yeah, owning the Academic version myself, I don't see what the big deal is. If anyone owns the regular version, I'll be happy to give them a cd of the Academic version, because they paid for the same thing, right??

Corporate Version

[XBL]

The version of Windows XP Pro making the rounds with Warex is a special corporate version that does not require the registration.

It's quite handy, if I say so myself ;-)

Comparing Apples and Oranges and Tangerines

[wizzardz]

Why anyone would bother on the subject of key generation for XP anything is beyond me. The analysis of Blizzard, who has a very singular and controlled audience and their activation key scheme, has no correlation to MS in all practical pirating sense. Blizzard has one particular audience...the end user. MS has numerous and some very demanding audiences. Of great importance to them are their corporate and developer networks. In these instances, MS has lessened (bulk licenses), and in some instances, eliminated the restrictions (read, no key). A developer would not tolerate having to call MS central each time one of their engineers reinstalled Windows XP...particularly after spending $2K buying the MSDN packages. The simple fact is that no matter what Uncle Bill releases, he will - unlike Blizzard - gladly, and by contract release an identical, but less restricted copy to the MSDN and corporate license holders. These versions of the product are not constrained to the same activation key/call-Uncle Bill-for-permission-each-time schemes that the comparable the off-the-shelf versions are restricted to. Anyone who bothers with a pirated retail version of any MS product only begs for any associated hassle...particularly when a perfect good and unrestricted developer version is out there somewhere. Of course, thats just my opinion...I could be wrong

If you have eDonkey2000, here's the link

[jshare]

XP.Suite.Keygen.BlueList.ShareReactor.zip

eDonkey2000 is only for Windows though.

Re:If you have eDonkey2000, here's the link

[user32.ExitWindowsEx]

No it isn't. There are Linux and (I think) even Mac OS versions.

Better : an URL

[AftanGustur]

Or just click here !

Unbreakable WPA is not in MS's best interests

[jdoeii]

Let's imagine for a minute that MS invented a totally unbreakable "Magic Activation Scheme" (MAS) and incorporated it into the next version of Windows - WindowsXXP(tm). No way to get around it, either buy XXP, or don't use it. What would happen?

1. Short term sales would rise.
A larger number of users would buy XXP with MAS than without it. Some small businesses and home users would pay up instead of lending from a friend or buying one copy and installing it on all computers. The sales would be higher, but not a lot higher.

2. XXP installed base would increase slower with MAS than without it. In the US and EU a number of small businesses and home users would stay with legacy Windows, or would seek alternatives. In emerging economies XXP installed base would never go above 5%.

3. Long term consequesnces would be disastrous.
China, Eastern Europe, Russia & the rest of the x-USSR, Latin America, parts of the Middle East, India in 3-5 years would be predominantly Windows-free. When an average monthly salary is in the range $100-300, it's very hard to justify paying $200 for a copy of XXP. The majority of the population would either stay with legacy Windows, or find alternatives. Once an entire nation learns how to use a certain OS, it would take extreme measures to make it switch.

In the US, Canada, and EU the XXP installed base would be smaller. A sizable chunk of home users and small businesses would learn how to live without Windows. A new market niche would be created for alternative OSes. That niche is currencly occupied by illegaly copied Windows. Great opportunity for Linux & FreeBSD.

--

Now, does anyone really expect MS to be THAT stupid?

Re:Unbreakable WPA is not in MS's best interests

[Anonymous Coward]

actually, yes.

on second thought though, maybe they realize they can't do without those ppl using illegal windows copies. maybe they KNOW that using an 'MAS' would cost them 75% of their users, so they boast about high security to sucker all the Joe Sixpacks out there, because that's a sizeable group of people WILLING/ignorant enough to pay 200 bucks for a windows copy

so maybe they depend on old Joe for the money, but they intentionally left their security breakable so that they can sneak in their other products (MsOffice and whatnot) to users with an illegal windows.

it's called acquired sales.

Re:Unbreakable WPA is not in MS's best interests

[Trinton Azaleth]

There is a simple solution to such a cyclic cycle. Create a program which copies the newest version of Windows from PC to PC, like a virus. If people get infected by it, would they complain?? (assuming it was a decent new version) In such case, M$ would be forced to use a scheme which cannot be cracked, or else they would join with the FBI to lock up hackers worldwide.

winxp

[Anonymous Coward]

http://andrew.ijib.com:81/ its there :-X

Re:You are misinterpreting the goal of WPA

[Todd Knarr]

In the very big companies, you'd be right. But volume licenses for MS OSes go down to 20-30 seats. That was one of the things that nearly caused a customer revolt, when MS tried eliminating the low-volume corporate licenses. And in a company in the sub-100-employee range, they likely manually install the OSes. I worked for one of the bigger commercial truck-stop companies, and I had CDs for most of the software on my desktop computer in my desk drawer (which I considered a mixed blessing). Under those circumstances I'd be suprised if copies of the no-activation CDs didn't wander from time to time. You won't see those keys circulated, though, because the people who're using them aren't comfortable handing them out to the world. There may be no difference, but they consider what they're doing different from handing the keys out to all and sundry. And the company may be liable, but what would MS do? Without activation there's no way for them to detect the illegitimate copies easily, and if they came down too hard on the small companies then those companies would switch to Macs because they can't afford the liability, and MS isn't going to write off that large a chunk of their customer base, sabre-rattling to the contrary.

Comparing to online games

[fluor2]

I have been playing Half-Life Counter-Strike (CS) for some time, and they seem to have a working key-system (where only one or two persons in the world can have the same key). However, as techonologies advances, there has been some people who have found it hard to understand why they suddenly could not play anymore. Then they finally understand that the only solution is a) they've been hacked (cdkey is in registry) or b) somebody have had some luck in creating a key that was the exact same as yours.

This makes it pretty hard...

I guess the software companies should also make a login system, where one can register what IP's the users can use, to improve security of cdkeys.. However, there would be nice to also have a third party system to take control of this, so you get some privacy. Maybe passport or similar (yeah i dont trust passport either, but you dont exactly have to give much info to them).

M$ Key systems have always been foiled...

[Megahurtz]

Does anyone remember Office 97?? If a key from a full-install was used, any upgrade CD could be used without having to do the upgrade compliance check. And... let's not forget about the 11112-1111111 or 22223 2222222 product keys that were all the rage in recent times. The KeyGen in question for XP most likely generates Volume licensing keys, these keys are exempt from WPA, and if you happen to look at the newsgroups where M$ software is available as soon as RTM is announced (Before really, but who's keeping track (c: ) you will notice, especially in respect to XP posts, the Volume Licensing version is being posted, coincidence? I think not.... It all really boils down to costs, M$ wants to spend as little money as possible on production, so they simply issue different keys (IE - Upgrade, Full, Trial, Etc.) and use the same install set. Granted, this has gotten a little trickier with the new 25 letter keys, but as long as M$ takes the easy route and leaves backdoors, (don't even get me started) the world will continue to find and exploit them. Perhaps when Bill told the public he was halting all new programming to address security issues, he was actually referring to revenue security...

Precedence trumps your opinion

[Dragoness Eclectic]

Unfortunately for whoever the bozo who writes CDRWin is, if his access control scheme damages or disables anything besides his own program, he could be liable for some serious penalties. That kind of "copy protection" was tried back in the early 1980s, and after a few lawsuits it was established that doing anything destructive to the other guy's property is illegal and opens you up to some serious liability--even if they did illicitly copy and use your software.

Thanks for publicizing that this guy writes malware, though. I'll know to avoid any product of his, and recommend that my friends do the same.

Reverse Engineering

[Trinton Azaleth]

It is all going to become meaningless when TriHLD comes out. (TriHLD being a new program designed to decompile and rewrite M$ software.) http://www.livxtrm.com

Microsoft actually tells you if your copy of Xp...

[powerlinekid]

I have the *cough, pirated, cough* copy of Xp Pro corporate, and was playing around with it last night. On exlorer (i think, not internet but the file one) if you click help, theres an option : "Is this copy of Windos legal?"... i almost died laughing. When you click on it, it takes you to an asp script on microsofts server... thank god I don't have a net connection or I might have been in some trouble.

Reality check

[Monte]

Try buying a house and convincing a bank that your $10,000 a year salary will pay for it. "What! Why are you laughing... go to where?....."

Assuming that you're going to come up with $2,500 for a down payment, and $10,000/year is *net*, property taxes at $1,000/year, $150/year for insurance, a 30 year loan at 7%, and add in the ever-suckful mortgage insurance, and you'll be making payments of about $438/month.

Which would be more than half of your income of $833 a month.

I'd laugh, too.

But look on the bright side: You're amongst the richest poor people in the world. Tell somebody in Afganastan how much your life sucks, and you'll probably get another laugh.

Why do you need a keygen/product activation???

[Anonymous Coward]

We have many copies of XP running around without the need for activation... with a serial no written on the cd....

installs as easy as win98...

i know some people have memorized all these keys:
Win95, Win98, Win98SE, WinME, 2k, XP... i know a guy who i can ask by phone for any key and he'd just recite it :) LOL!

Why bother, it only makes life hard for the dumb asses who paid $$$$$$

Re:Why do you need a keygen/product activation???

[Trinton Azaleth]

I considered collecting keys when I worked for various computer stores... never did, but I thought about it. My bosses had lists of various keys they used though. What about the Win95b and Win95c keys? Those are different...

Re:Why do you need a keygen/product activation???

[Blu_StEeL_187]

i wanted 2 noe how 2 get the keygen for xp but if u cant tell me can u tell me a few keys

downloaded it

[timecop]

and it works fine.
now I can avoid this WPA feature each time I add more ram or a new video card

So where is the news?

[Anonymous Coward]

The file(*) started to get DCC'd and ICQ'ed around last autumn.

(*At least the .ZIP that is 1435868 bytes large)

Re:Microsoft actually tells you if your copy of Xp

[Anonymous Coward]

I just tried this with my dodgy WinXpCorp install - all it does is take you to a page telling you what the Windows COA sticker should look like on your PC.

The keys don't seem to be very random!

[velouria]

I ran this last night and had it generate 20 keys for each of the products it supported.
Out of 20 Office XP keys, 3 were exactly the same.
For Windows XP, there were two pairs of identical keys.

I have a feeling that there are going to be an awful lot of people using the same keys.

If you think you purchased illegal software

[Trinton Azaleth]

M$ says you should return the product to where you purchased it. If they refuse to take it back, you are supposed to report the people who sold it to you. If that doesn't work, you are to call 1-800-RU-LEGIT.(a M$ number) Somehow, if I knew I accidentally ended up with an illegal version, I doubt I would be calling M$ about it.

The keygen DOES NOT WORK

[amaiman]

I tried out the keygen yesterday. It does not work. The keys that generated by it for Windows XP Pro DO NOT WORK for activation.

I have a legal copy of XP, I just tried activating on a seperate partition with the keys generated...I generated and tried 10 different keys, none of them worked.

Re:25 i have a question

[Anonymous Coward]

1.i have a copy of WINxp but i dont have da key so i can put the numbers/letters in how can i find the key 2 2 something in there and how do i get this key generator