The Lure of Heroinware

blankmange writes "news.com reports: When games stop being fun; where the line between reality and fantasy blurs. Another story about games and the adults who can't stop playing them. It seems that we can't be held responsible for our actions -- it must be the 'heroinware' that game companies are producing...." Mmmm, Evercrack. T. pops in: Don't worry, games aren't addictive, but here's the announcement of a 24-hour gaming TV network for those unexplained late-night cravings. (Thanks to joestump98.)

Comments

My favorite heroinware...

[Genyin]

is This!

Re:My favorite heroinware...

[packeteer]

dont forget taco's favorite heroinware... and all the horrible things it does

Re:My favorite heroinware...

[Xaroth]

Oh great... now you're going to slashdot slashdot.

Re:My favorite heroinware...

[Tribbin]

Today I saw a commercial on TV (here in Holland) about a geek, he was wearing a slashdot T-shirt. :-)

It said "/. me!" and "/. you!" (front-back).

Heroineware?

[qslack]

Ah, heroineware. Tomb Raider 2 was an excellent game. In fact, I'd say that any game with Lara Croft as the heroine is an excellent game.
:)

Re:Heroineware?

[56ker]

I suppose you're going by definiton 2:

2. A woman noted for special achievement in a particular field.

:)

Re:Heroineware?

[0x0d0a]

Uh, huh. Can *you* do it?

this is because...

[iONiUM]

Comparing games to heroin? Ya, because sometimes I shutter violently if I havn't played for a few hours.

Re:this is because...

[TedCheshireAcad]

If we're going to compare to games, then we can compare to anything computer-related.

I have to shoot up every ninety minutes.

Re:this is because...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not certain as to what it means to "shutter", but I've read somewhere that "shuddering" is symptomatic of narcotic withdrawal. Were I to select an alternate word, I would likely prefer "convulse". There's something morbid about the word that is superior in a descriptive sense.

Re:this is because...

[iONiUM]

Yes, your mastery of the english language is a feat which none can top. We'll forever be in your debt for correcting the small mistakes which plagued my post.
Go now! Hunt for the spelling mistakes!
Jesus Christ, I never knew such people existed.

Master Of Orion

[Dwedit]

The one that is Heroinwear is definatly Master Of Orion for the PC. That game has me hooked so bad...

Re:Master Of Orion

[trubador]

It's coming out the third quarter of 2002. Quicksilver wants to do it right rather than foist a half-finished bug-ridden beta *cough*Civ3*cough* on its customers. Be patient.

Re:Master Of Orion

[Madhackr]

While you're waiting, check out Space Empires IV Gold...its got ho-hum graphics, but *very* addictive gameplay....its got me hooked

Re:Master Of Orion

[Codifex Maximus]

Yeah, Master of Orion was definately a fun game. I played many hours of it - single player, hotseat, and multiplayer. The battle sequences were a great part of it and the strategy involved in planet aquisition as well as technology path choices.

What finally turned me off to it was the problems with the multiplayer code - it had some problems with data corruption and just plain fubaredness (Is this a word? Look it up for me.)

As for Everquest, I like it a lot but it's got it's limitations too.

Codifex Maximus
Ogre WAR 54
Dwarf CLR 40
Dark Elf WIZ 30

Re:Master Of Orion

[Jester998]

Agreed... I've been playing SEIV for like 4 weeks straight... ;)

Truth Ads?

[ascii7]

Now I wonder if in 20-30 years those stupid Truth ads will have switched from whining about cigarettes to whining about how addictive videogames are?

Re:Truth Ads?

[Lemmy Caution]

Because god knows, cigarettes got a bum rap.

Re:Truth Ads?

[Rhinobird]

Yeah, thsoe ads are insipid. I want to start smoking just tick those people off.

Wouldn't it be fun to grab a bil fat stogie, walk up to that rat on the sidewalk, blow a nice big puff of smoke right in his face and say, "get a life, everyone already knows smoking is bad for you."

Re:Truth Ads?

[Rhinobird]

legal killing machine? Like automobiles? Or guns? No, nobody foces anybody to light up and smoke. My dad smoked. I don't. I have no desire to smoke. Which areas of the US don't have that sort of eduacation? The parts without TV? the parts with out magazines? or the parts with out the warning labels on the packs of cigs?

Re:Truth Ads?

[theCoder]

I wonder if they'll be as full of lies as the current "Truth" ads. Maybe thousands of planes flying past a beach with signs reading "mov" and "add" -- showing the swimmers all the different instructions in EQ. Or maybe they'll show a giant blue-screened computer and say the Everquest has code that can do that.

I respect what they're trying to do, but the FUD they spread is really bad. I'm not sure they have a truthful bone in their bodies. Maybe they're ex-Microsoft advertisers :) Their only good ad I've seen was their April Fools day commercial (cigarette company announcing they have a safe cigarette).

Re:Truth Ads?

[jkovach]

I want to start smoking just tick those people off.

Betcha didn't know that the American Legacy Foundation, who produces these ads, is funded by the tobacco companies as part of the national tobacco lawsuit settlement. So while some people (the CDC, etc.) think they're the greatest thing ever, the conspiracy theorists say that the over-the-top style is part of a tobacco industry plot to make everybody smoke more. Apparently the conspiracy theorists are at least partially right on this one...

Re:Truth Ads?

[sharkey]

Wouldn't it be fun to grab a bil fat stogie

A "stogie" is a cigar, man. According to "The Truth" people it is cigarettes that do all those bad things. Makes me glad I enjoy cigars instead of cigarettes!

Figures

[dirkdidit]

So thats why my friend hasn't stopped playing Everquest for the past 6 months? Damn you, Sony! Damn you to hell!

Re:Figures

[TedCheshireAcad]

I think that if EQ is herionware, then a MUD is methadone-clinicware.

Planetside

[Skidge]

Here's an interesting quote from Planetside's FAQ, another game by Verant, the creaters of Everquest:

What is the goal of the game?
To be more addictive than any substance known to man.

Probably said with tongue in cheek, but still, they recognize what their cames can become to some people.

Re:Planetside

[Skidge]

That quote can be found here, for all those interested. Forgot to include it it in my previous post.

Re:Planetside

[Chasing Amy]

Anything that provides the opportunity for escape or is mood-altering can become addictive. In that respect I don't think the immersive video games are much different from other things people can become addicted to--drugs, alcohol, pr0n, traditional paper-and-dice roleplaying, etc. There's a good reason that even huge fans of the game jokingly agree with the term "Evercrack." But it's important to note that people can become addicted to just about anything--watching those 24-hr. cable news stations, posting to Slashdot; anything which alters the mood, takes the mind off real life or personal life, or makes someone feel special or important.

That's not to say that it's inherently dangerous or addictive--most people can drink or smoke pot or watch pr0n or play Everquest or D&D without becoming addicted. It's a very small percentage with personalities susceptible to addictions who develop real problems, while almost everyone else can successfully have a few drinks or play a few games without it interfering with the rest of their lives.

So, it's the addictive personalities which are the real problem, not alcohol or games or pr0n or drugs or cable news or whatever one's addiction is. When I read the following paragraph, I had an intersting thought:

> While such cases are rare, mental-health professionals say the fantasy worlds
> offered by computer and video games can become the stuff of very real addictions that
> destroy marriages and careers.

The thought was--what is it about these people's real lives that's so boring or bad that they want to escape into the make-believe world of power or pleasure offered by a computer game or a syringe of heroin? That's what we need to blame and address, not the games or the pr0n or the alcohol or drugs. All of those things can and are used in moderation by most people, to bring them additional pleasure; some people have no or insufficient real-life joys, and rtreat into their favorite "opiate." These deficiencie in their lives, which enhance susceptibility to escapism, are what need to be addressed and improved.

Think of the teenage Everquest addict's likely profile--a smart geek with a lot of ability but no respect in real life. Our society--particularly our highschool society--accords brainless people with athleticism limitless respect, and people with tremendous minds but not so impressive bodies almost none. It's therefore understandable if one falls into the lure of finding that respect in a make-believe world, since the real one refuses to provide it.

It's like with Columbine, how not a single step was made to teach kids to be more egalitarian and accepting, and instead the pressure was turned up and people who didn't fit in perfectly into the social machine were shunned and harassed even more. No one wants to see underlying problems--they want to blame the game or the substance instead of the deficiencies in our society. It's sad and alarming, and is getting us nowhere. We need to see the problems in our society and work our best to fix them--not blame that which brings the problems to light.

Re:Planetside

[NDPTAL85]

So any loser who spends too much time in their bedrooms on a PC playing EverQuest is automatically a misunderstood intellectually superior young person who felt left out because the jocks got all the attention and success? Do you REALLY expect anyone to believe the crap your spewing?

And what about the intelligent people who simply use their smarts to get really good jobs and high pay. Do they not get enough awards for their natural talents that easily compare with the jocks?

Re:Planetside

[notsoanonymouscoward]

most people can drink or smoke pot or watch pr0n or play Everquest or D&D without becoming addicted

and then there's ppl like me, drug addict, pr0n addict, EQ addict, etc..

Re:Planetside

[dytin]

Thats not what he said, he said that one possible reason for people to get addicted to games is because their real life sucks. His main point anyways was that it's not the game or the substance that is at fault in the addiction, but the person themself (and the person's personality).

Re:Planetside

[198348726583297634]

Think of the teenage Everquest addict's likely profile--a smart geek with a lot of ability but no respect in real life. Our society--particularly our highschool society--accords brainless people with athleticism limitless respect, and people with tremendous minds but not so impressive bodies almost none.

That's a nice way to get modded up, but probably not so accurate. Try: Our society--particularly our highschool society--accords outgoing and friendly people (who tend to move toward social activities like sports and dating) limitless respect, and people with tremendous egos because they unlocked the secrets of programming instead of flirting almost none.

As for Columbine- the world does not exist to be fair and to cater to unbalanced individuals. Fairness is nice, and something we should probably strive for, but being unfair never ever ever justifies that kind response. It is sad and alarming that people could read anything into the Columbine incident but the tragedy that two very sick youths took out their rage on their classmates and peers.

(Mod etc blah blah blah)

Re:Planetside

[linzeal]

Violence in response to injustice can not be and should not be dismissed like that. Stemming not from the participants themselves as action but reaction to the situation of implacable human desires for very basic freedoms. If people or countries wish to act as if they were not culpable in such actions as columbine or 9/11 they are deluding themselves in calling out others as the insane.

Re:Planetside

[dsb]

what is it about these people's real lives that's so boring or bad that they want to escape into the make-believe world of power or pleasure offered by a computer game or a syringe of heroin?

I, being just another run of the mill slashdot reader (is that a developing addiction?) think the keyword is boring. They, say successfull people are never bored. However, that does not mean they may have addictive personiltes; ie stockbrockers, ceo's, professional ballplayers. They have learned how to manage their time, talents, and resources. It is their will! For heroine addicts, perhaps it's the instanteanous pleasure. For gamers, it's the script kiddie, "I can out hack you" mentality?

Anyone want to do some more Klines?

(Obligatory comment: I don't have karma to burn, have moderator access, but yet I still posted nonAC)

Re:Planetside

[mgblst]

Who are these people addicted to porn? What do they do, neglect there girlfriend? Steal to get more porn?

Re:Planetside

[athmanb]

> As for Columbine- the world does not exist to be fair and to cater to unbalanced individuals. Fairness is nice, and something we should probably strive for, but being unfair never ever ever justifies that kind response.

While I appreciate your try to distribute the blame for Columbine, this is by far not enough.
No matter whether being picked on justifies the killings or not (I'm just plain not interested in this question) it's still a matter of fact that the classmates had to die because of it.

If the school system had cared more about them, it could have saved the lives of 15 teenagers. Period.

Re:Planetside

[LadyLucky]

Games don't addict people, people addict people.

Or something like that.

Re:Planetside

[ArcSecond]

I think you are close to the point here, but this is my take on it:

Addiction is a behaviour. You learn to become addicted. You can also unlearn it to a certain extent... but (as all the psych people out there probably already know), a behaviour can never be completely extinguished once learned. Hence the "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" mantra of AA has a real foundation.

Behaviours are like memes: they compete with each other. To the extent that you exibit one behaviour more than others, it defines you. Getting locked into a certain pattern of behaviour(s) makes you boring, IMNSHO. Thus, addiction may be a response to boredom, but it in turn makes you boring. Got to love the irony.

Of course people who feel inadequate, unsatisfied, and ignored in "real life" (whatever that is) will try to find a way to experience the thrill of power, exultation, and adulation. The fact that they are "only acting" has nothing to do with the reality of their experience. Other people may choose to devote their lives to, say, show biz for the exact same reasons. You could argue that acting in a play and playing in an online game are equivalent, except you are more likely to be paid for the former. Keep in mind that this may change.

So really, when someone retreats into addiction, they are seeking well-being and belonging. The fact that people identify more easily with their game alter-egos than with their equally-artificial social persona is not only a matter of mental health, but an indicator that our culture (the ones in which these games flourish, that is) itself is sick.

Why are people so ready to give up the world of wage slavery, voter apathy, anti-intellectualism for worlds like EverQuest? I think the answer is obvious: it's more rewarding than involving themselves in the game of "real life". They want to live the life of a hero (or villian) in the true sense: they want to take on the role of the archetype, to accept the hero's challenge to conquer his own weaknesses and transcend The World itself.

We all are, really. Some of us have kids to keep our name/genes alive. Some try to make their mark on history. Others may work in their community to improve things for the next generation. All are seeking a "place" in the world--not the world of time and space, but the world of stories, lore, and cultural memory. Looked at from this point of view, what the EQ addicts are doing isn't so strange. They are trying to do what we all do, just in a different medium.

The problem here is that no game can deliver on the promise of the hero's quest. The closest they will come to this experience is not to "beat the game" from within the game, but to beat it from the outside, BY PUTTING THE GAME BEHIND THEM. They can then move on to the real challenge: finding a way through life that reinforces their spiritual, emotional, and physical well-being.

Our Western lives have been organized around things that seem custom-made to make us feel bad about ourselves, which drives us to find comfort in one addiction or another. We spend our lives trying to make up for the guilt and regrets of what we "had" to do. Basically, through the long process of dividing people into halves (private/public, personal/professional) we have created a world for ourselves where everyone walks around fighting with themselves and each other. Why is it so strange that we would want to escape from this?

Re:Planetside

[civilizedINTENSITY]

Sense of self, and marketing same: consider the "survival of the cutest" theory as put forward atNews & Previews from the
World Future Society and
at salon

The question I pose is how cute (attractive) does the behavior make one? And to who? Friendly, outgoing, ugly fat people aren't likely to be appreciated whereas shy beautiful people are...see

• The Truth About Cats and Dogs

.

Re:Planetside

[civilizedINTENSITY]

There is a big difference between a physical addiction (such as heroin or tobacco) and a psychological addiction (such as marijuana or porn or video gaming). It may be true that "seeking" behavior is exhibited for the second class, but no one goes through withdrawel at risk of death from a psychological addiction. Different syndromes. A federally funded drug clinic can't check in people for detox who abuse psychologically addicting substances (and expect to recieve payments).

Re:Planetside

[CanadaMan]

I like your post. It highlights the power of narrative to shape subjects. The myths that are embedded in our culture do play an important role in shaping our drives for success, since the hero myth show us what it means to be successful. Your penultimate paragraph is particularly noteworthy. I wonder, however, how a person who spends all of her time playing EverQuest is going to become aware enough of her situation even to begin to determine for herself a way through life that, as you so eloquently state, "reinforces their spiritual, emotional, and physical well-being".

One thing that always gets me about our Western culture is how much it emphasizes personal choice and responsibility for actions while at the same time providing almost non-existant resources to enable truly individual choices. Certainly I am aware of counselling programs, advising services, and even government funded placement and entrepreneurial services but the sad fact of the matter is that these services are often underfunded and underpublicized.

Re:Planetside

[lysurgon]

No one wants to see underlying problems--they want to blame the game or the substance instead of the deficiencies in our society. It's sad and alarming, and is getting us nowhere. We need to see the problems in our society and work our best to fix them--not blame that which brings the problems to light.

Excellent comments, man. That's very much what my interview project is about. We try and put all these different things that "bring the problems to light" on stage next to eachother, and thereby show that they all have common root causes.

I'd like to quote some of your comment for something. May I?

Re:Planetside

[Jagasian]

Think of the teenage Everquest addict's likely profile--a smart geek with a lot of ability but no respect in real life. Our society--particularly our highschool society--accords brainless people with athleticism limitless respect, and people with tremendous minds but not so impressive bodies almost none. It's therefore understandable if one falls into the lure of finding that respect in a make-believe world, since the real one refuses to provide it.

This isn't entirely true. First off, athleticism isn't even a requirement. You don't have to be smart, you don't have to be athletic, but as long as you are good-looking and mainstream - you gain popularity. The thing is, this completely makes sense. I won't go into it, but use a little reasoning, and you will see why this happens. Is it evil? No. Is it an optimal basis to structure a society on? Hell no! ...but we are talking about High School here ;-)

The aspect of our society that bothers me is how this extends out of High School into daily life: politics and the workplace. Wait, is there any difference to those two?

The most important thing that a smart nerd or geek can do about all of this is to not give it any credit. Don't bitch about it, don't put others down because of it, and don't feel down about it. Let people be popular, hip, cool, good with the ladies, parties, fights... If you try to go against it, if you bitch about it, put people down because of it, or if you feel down because of it... you only give credit to the institution.

The best way to discredit an institution that you disagree with is to ignore its existence, and create your own alternative institution. Take the FSF, Linux, Id Software, or *cough* Microsoft. Are these "geek empires" worthy of time, effort, respect, or maybe even fear? Build a geek empire of your own, or chip in to a geek empire already being built! Its possible as long as you don't get too hung up on the N'Sync or Britney Spears = Cool Popular Good-looking People Empires.

Also, remember to not knock another person because they are good-looking, athletic, or something you are not. Such things don't make a person a bad person, but putting someone down because they are (or are not) good-looking or athletic... that makes for a bad person. Destroying makes for a bad person. Creating makes for a good person. There is room for both institutions.

Re:Planetside

[Triones]

>Our society--particularly our highschool >society--accords outgoing and friendly people (who >tend to move toward social activities like sports >and dating) limitless respect,

Seems like a harsh and unfair society to me. And I don't see that outgoing and friendly are sufficient to make one good at sports and dating. Instead, physical strengths/skills and being good-looking are sufficient.

Re:Planetside

[Chasing Amy]

You can of course quote anything you'd like. :-) If you really want to talk more about such issues, reply to this comment saying so, and I'll set up a throw-away e-mail account and e-mail you from that. I have a few reasons for requiring a higher level of anonymity than most, since I'm involved in supporting some causes that most of mainstream society dislikes; therefore I don't keep a fixed e-mail address for the Chasing Amy nic. LMK and I'll get back to you.

Re:Planetside

[analog_line]

That's a nice way to get modded up, but probably not so accurate. Try: Our society--particularly our highschool society--accords outgoing and friendly people (who tend to move toward social activities like sports and dating) limitless respect, and people with tremendous egos because they unlocked the secrets of programming instead of flirting almost none.

Try using a finer brush there, buddy. All high school-age social outcast geeks are not egomaniac tech prima donnas. Outgoing and friendly? Is this the same country we're living in? Outgoing and friendly people don't berate and ostracise people who are nerdy techno geeks just because they're socially inept.

Don't forget those with tremendous egos because they're spending their time on the football field or flirting in the halls and at parties instead of maybe picking up a book once in a while. These are the people that our society expects to go to the NFL and get multi-million dollar contracts and get TV sponsorships. These are the people who are shepherded through their college classes, with their professors threatened with being fired if they don't pass the star player who happens to be either brain dead, or to self-important to be bothered to write his own English 101 paper. These are the people that commit crimes that get other people thrown in jail, but have it covered up or recieve wrist-spalling punishments because the greedy bastards who run this country want their almamater to kick State's ass next week, and they can't do it without the "problem case" star player. Some people will do anything to be with/sleep with you. People will give you free stuff just because you're on hte team. Your name in lights. And it doesn't make a good god damn whether you're a complete egomaniac asshole. No one will care, and in fact would be surprised if you weren't.

Whereas your local egotistical tech geek would probably make around 100k a year to be worked like a slave in a corporate IT department for 60+ hours/week. If management could be rid of you and your inceassant droning about how this or that needs to be fixed and that we need this or that new thing, which costs money the company doesn't have, they'd do it in a heartbeat, but you're the only one that knows this or that system that's in place at your place of employment. Everyone and their brother in the company either does their best to avoid you, or is looking for any excuse to kick your ass to the curb because you're such a dickweed to everyone.

Which do you think is more valued in this society? Friendliness and an outgoing nature merely makes someone who's more interested in fsck-ing than fucking acceptable in polite society. For the athletic and beautiful among us, it's strictly optional.

Re:Planetside

[MoneyT]

That's a nice way to get modded up, but probably not so accurate. Try: Our society--particularly our highschool society--accords outgoing and friendly people (who tend to move toward social activities like sports and dating) limitless respect, and people with tremendous egos because they unlocked the secrets of programming instead of flirting almost none.

Now this is unfair. Speaking as one of these socialy dejected teenagers, I have to say that this is not an entirely accurate description (or even closely accurate). The majority of the "popular" people in my (and I can safely assume other) school are not in any sense of the word "friendly", and they are only "outgoing" if you consider being loud and obnoxious being outgoing. Now, not all are like this, but the good majority are. Many times, they "move toward social activities such as sports" simply because that is what they are good at. There is no distiction between a athetes attraction to the opposite sex and a geeks attraction, the fact of the matter is, the members of the oposite sex are more attracted to the athletes (large muscles, schoolwide respect and recognition seem to be factors). On the other hand, ask any person who has spent some time arround a geek and they will tell you that as a whole, we are more social and treat people with a much higher degree of respect. Our fatal flaw lies in not knowing how (or having the courage) to initiate in a social situation. Withing the geek social group (including artists, musicians, and techheads) people are extremely social and very willing to let outsiders in. The problem is that most schools do not provide high recognition to these departments for their accomplishments. Don't believe me, go to a highschool concert, Odessy of the Mind tournement or Art Show and compare the attendance to that of any one of the sports events. The sad truth is, High Schools do give their athletes far more attention, and by proxy, far more respect than the intelligent but non athleticaly inclined students.

Geeks do not have such super inflated egos simply because they are intelligent. They have them because they're smart, they know they're smart, but no one gives a damn. If the athletes didn't get any attention, they would be the same way (some of them are anyways, but I won't go there). The fact is we are no more or less adept at flirting, the difference arrives in the number of opportunities to exercise that skill which present themselves. Since we are given low levels of respect and status, the members of the oposite sex do not have as much interest in us, therefore the opportunities to flirt are limited.

Here in lies the irony of our existance. We are some of the most respectful, capable and socialy trained individuals in our society, yet we are the outcasts. The only way we begin to expand our social lives is to literaly force our way into friendships. Myself, the only reason I have as many friends as I do (and consequently am never at a loss for a date) is because I have literaly butted into conversations and made my presence known. It took me 3 years of highschool to figure out how to do this without being rude, obnoxious or being rejected from the conversation.

If geeks are going to gain status and popularity, they are going to need recognition from the already popular people. From day one of school, the physical strong are the ones praised most often. Perhaps it is time to change that.

Re:Planetside

[lysurgon]

I'm game... you can contact me via my homepage or at joshk@thequickfix.com.

Re:Planetside

[renderhead]

Yes and yes. Somebody thought your post was funny, but it is frightfully accurate. When I was younger, I was addicted to porn. I would go online to get it until I got caught by my parents who took my computer privileges away. After that, I turned to shoplifting to obtain my porn fix. I didn't have friends who would get porn for me, and I was too young to buy it. Eventually I got caught and arrested for stealing a porno mag. Fortunately the very reason that I couldn't buy the magazine, my minor status, also kept it from going on my permanent record.

I'm more under control now, but if you want to know some more about porn addiction, check out psychologist James Dobson's death row interview with serial killer Ted Bundy, taken less than an hour before the infamous man's execution. Do a google search for Ted Bundy, Pornography, and James Dobson to get more details. You might be surprised to learn how Ted Bundy felt about pornography.

Re:Planetside

[Rakarra]

These are the people that our society expects to go to the NFL and get multi-million dollar contracts and get TV sponsorships. Professional sports is an extremely competative area, no pun intended. Many try for it, few can get in.

At least you didn't say "these are the people who get multi-million dollar contracts" because out of the huge number of people active in such sports, only a tiny minority get into the majors with a strong salary.

These are the people that commit crimes that get other people thrown in jail, but have it covered up or recieve wrist-spalling punishments because the greedy bastards who run this country want their almamater to kick State's ass next week, and they can't do it without the "problem case" star player.

Please provide statistics that this behavior is widespread. It might happen a very few times, but it's hardly an epidemic.

Whereas your local egotistical tech geek would probably make around 100k a year to be worked like a slave in a corporate IT department

I'll make this brief: the multi-million-dollar-contract ballplayer is far more important than the hard-working tech geek, and that's why he gets the big bucks. People care far more about what the ball player does than what the tech geek does, and when the big-league sports player screws up, far more people will notice the effects than when the tech geek screws up.

Everyone and their brother in the company either does their best to avoid you, or is looking for any excuse to kick your ass to the curb because you're such a dickweed to everyone.

Well maybe you're just doing it wrong. I have to tell people "no" rather often in my job as a sysadmin, and I've had no problems at the places I've worked at. Then again, I never saw the need of being a dickweed.

Re:Planetside

[Felius]

Here in lies the irony of our existance. We are some of the most respectful, capable and socialy trained individuals in our society, yet we are the outcasts. The only way we begin to expand our social lives is to literaly force our way into friendships. Myself, the only reason I have as many friends as I do (and consequently am never at a loss for a date) is because I have literaly butted into conversations and made my presence known. It took me 3 years of highschool to figure out how to do this without being rude, obnoxious or being rejected from the conversation.

Congratulations. You've learnt the art of conversation.

The truth is that opportunities to flirt or converse with other people are not always presented neatly wrapped on a platter. The more a person isolates themself from others, the less these opportuinites will appear.

Geeks constantly complain about the standard of education at highschool, about teachers who aren't as smart as we are but dictate terms, about the lack of respect for intellectual, as opposed to physical, pursuits.

I was exactly the same in high school until about year 10. I seem to be a generally likeable guy, I've never had a problem conversing with people but starting conversations with my peers seemed difficult. I had a small group of geek friends, and that was it.

Eventually I figured out that if I wanted more friends, I'd have to go out and make them myself.

It's really not hard once you put your mind to it. Identify the people you like, that you might have something in common with. The people who have some sort of brain but are not necessarily geeks. Go outside during your breaks, instead of sitting in the lab coding. Take your library books home to read, instead of reading in the library at lunchtime. Just remember that you can't be social unless you're in social environments.

In the end, I learnt much more about people in highschool than I did about anything the teachers tried to teach me.

The most important thing I learnt was that geeks tend to put people in boxes just as often as other people do to us. Once you can learn to avoid that, you may be suprised.

If anyone at highschool had told me that my best man at my wedding in ten years time would be a good-looking, athletic, sports-mad ladies man, I'd have laughed at them. But if I hadn't learned to stop treating others the way they'd treated me, I'd have missed out on making a great friend.

Re:Planetside

[Rakarra]

There is a big difference between a physical addiction (such as heroin or tobacco) and a psychological addiction (such as marijuana or porn or video gaming).

Though often there is a fair amount of overlap, in that you will almost always find a psychological addition to tobacco when you have a physical addiction as well.

Re:Planetside

[hyphz]

> Anything that provides the opportunity for
> escape or is mood-altering can become addictive

There is a difference, though. EQ-like games have different addiction properties.

Example. Last week I found a copy of Uplink in a local store and was playing it madly all weekend. (This is a RPG, dammit. It is not a simulation.) However, although it was addicting and compulsive, I lost nothing by deciding I had played enough for the moment. I racked up some phat gateway kit but I knew that if I screwed up I'd lose it instantly (and in that game you really do - in Diablo terms it's permanently on Hardcore mode)

But that is not the case with EQ. EQ is all about levelling up. If you stop playing, you don't just lose the fun of playing - you lose all the time you've spent playing so far. (And, until you've levelled up a fair bit, there usually ISN'T that much fun in playing.) The game tends to come to you with an implicit deal that you can never lose the stuff you've gained ingame - unlimited resurrections etc - unlike most other games where you know it will be lost at some point (by either losing the game and losing the stuff because your character is out, or winning the game and effectively losing the stuff because there is nothing more to do with it). This means it is seen more as property rather than a means to an end of finishing the game. So with every game the addict plays, the percieved loss from giving up increases.

There are other causes as well, but the point is that there ARE genuine design decisions involved in the games which either a) are intended to create addiction or b) whose continued existance in games given that the game producers are aware of their effects demonstrates that addiction is considered a worthwhile tradeoff. It is not just the fault of the addicts.

Re:Planetside

[jafuser]

I'll make this brief: the multi-million-dollar-contract ballplayer is far more important than the hard-working tech geek, and that's why he gets the big bucks. People care far more about what the ball player does than what the tech geek does, and when the big-league sports player screws up, far more people will notice the effects than when the tech geek screws up.

What about the techgeek that wrote the software that prints your paychecks? I bet people will "care far more" and will "notice the effects" if that person screws up.

Re:Planetside

[benwb]

Yeah, but there are probably 20,000 programmers in the US that could do an acceptable job of that. How many people in the US do you think could throw a no hitter in major league ball?

Re:Planetside

[iceT]

Anything that provides the opportunity for escape or is mood-altering can become addictive.

What DOESN'T provide an escape or is mood-altering?

Incompetent fast food clerks are mood-altering.
Hanging out with friends is an escape.
Eating disorders are typically people who are substituting food for something else.
Reading a book is an escape.

I think it really comes down whether or not people have the ability to deal with real life. If they don't then they can become addicted easily. It doesn't matter to what. You can't take away everything that can be an escape.

What you have to do is teach people how to deal with REAL life effectively.

Re:Planetside

[Weasel Boy]

"Our fatal flaw lies in not knowing how (or having the courage) to initiate in a social situation."

Been there. Done that.

There is one thing about the high school social atmosphere that I cannot stress enough:

Who gives a damn about the opinion of a bunch of teenagers?

If there is one thing I could do to change the way I lived my life in my HS years, I would go back in time with a clue-by-four and pound into my adolescent head the lesson that there is no goal less worthy of the effort than trying to win the admiration of, let's face it, a shallow bunch of children.

Now my high school years are long behind me. I'm way nerdier than I was then, and proud of it. And I'm happier, too. And I have more and better friends now than most of the "popular" kids did back in my high school.

Most teenagers are still learning how to be more intellectually and socially sophisticated than broccoli.

If you are in high school, be the best person you can be. Always try to do what you know is right. Be nice to everyone, even if they don't deserve it. And don't worry about the pretty monkeys. Either they will grow up, or they won't; either way, you only have to tolerate them for 4 years.

Re:Planetside

[No One]

Ted Bundy did not kill people because he was addicted to porn. Ted Bundy killed people because he was fucked in the head. Ted Bundy blamed porn because he wanted a convenient excuse for being a murdering psycho.

In a similar vein, pornography isn't responsible for your addiction any more than tobacco is responsible for mine. We have addictive personalities, and blaming porn for your problem does not help you solve your problems. The only thing that does is taking responsibility for your problem, realizing that it is your problem, and doing what needs to be done to resolve it.

Re:Planetside

[renderhead]

First of all, I wasn't blaming my problem on porn, I was answering a question. The question was, in essence, "isn't it ridiculous to think that a porn addiction could be a problem." My answer was "no, it's not ridiculous at all."

As for Ted Bundy, if you actually read the interview, you'd know that he didn't blame porn for anything. Watching the interview on video is very sobering as you see that this man knew exactly what he did, how he did it, and why it was wrong. He never once tried to say that what he did wasn't wrong. Consider this: by the time the interview was conducted, Ted Bundy knew that he was never going to be spared, and yet he underwent a transformation of character anyway. Sure, we see criminals change their faces all the time for the parole board, but he had nothing to gain from faking a change of heart. No power on this earth was going to reverse his execution order. Taking that into consideration, try reading (or better yet, listening) to what he had to say shortly before his death, and then tell me that he was looking for a convenient excuse for being a murderer.

Re:Planetside

[ArcSecond]

Heh. It would have to be a canuck saying that. :)

The scarcity and low profile of mental health services in Canada, and I assume to an even greater extent in the States, is a major cause for concern. I often feel a popular sentiment that councelling is of little or no value, and there is a monstrous stigma that is attached to anyone who seeks help.

You only have to look at the most stressful jobs. Take cops: while there may be lip service paid to the provision of councelling services, there is simply no way most cops are going to take the initiative to talk to a councellor about their problems. And with the high rate of drug abuse, domestic violence, and suicide in police forces around North America, you have to ask yourself, why isn't this a more public issue? I mean, we are allowing a culture of violence and silence to persist, amongst the very organizations we all trust to protect us.

The same can be said for any industry that places its workers in high-stress situations, without the tools to deal with their emotions.

When it comes to public councelling, I know that here in Canada you can get councelling through your Medical Services Plan, but you will have a flag on your file from then on. It will be available to any agency with access to your medical history. So you would probably prefer to pay a mental health pro out of your own pocket, to avoid any record. That, of course, is expensive. Many good councellors use a sliding scale, but it is still a major investment for someone of modest means. The options aren't really clear to most people.

The majority of people who are addicted to X can't afford to pay for their own treatment. So they don't get treated. And the costs get passed on in other forms: crime, corruption, and lost productivity. I have to think that our culture requires us to be sick with guilt and self-loathing in order for us to be more motivated to consume... all the advertising I have ever seen has promised me a better, happier, more popular position in life if I just fork over the cash.

Re:Planetside

[MoneyT]

I realize that, it's something I learned long before highschool but try explaining that to your average techno-geek who despite the fact that he can manipulate 3D matricies in his head gets less respect and attention than the towel boy on the football team. There are some really great kids out there who are ignored and rejected because they don't play a sport. Sure part of the responsibility falls on them to get out there, but after 4+ years of being rejected most of them aren't going to be to willing to try again.

What about Work?

[Cyclopedian]

Some people that work too much are called workaholics. What if those people work as game programmers, and they *like* to work? Would that make them a "Heroinware Workaholic"?

Or does that make them "drug" dealers, since people now like to label them as heroinware makers?

BTW, if you haven't noticed, this post was posted with sarcasm intended. If you didn't get it, go here.

Re:What about Work?

[boaddrink]

Actually, heroinware games can only be played by the former Heroinsheek models of the late 90's. Check the license the next time you play these games.

No, I'm just joking about the models...

The truth is "Heroin" must be applied to at least one major headline every five years or so and that they are actually using the Carnivore system to monitor if "Heroin" is being used enough in modern conversations.

Re:What about Work?

[56ker]

What about a name for people addicted to Slashdot?

Slashaholics?

Re:What about Work?

[laserjet]

hey! i said i DON'T have a problem!

Re:What about Work?

[red5]

Slashaholics?

Okay this is a pet peeve of mine.
Why do people insist on adding the 'aholics' suffix to mean addiction?.
I's a substring of alcoholics.
Witch is derived from alcohol.
Why not Slashdot Addicts?

Re:What about Work?

[mosch]

What about a name for people addicted to Slashdot?

fucking retards.

Re:What about Work?

[Glytch]

Name two big industries that refer to their customers as "users".

Re:What about Work?

[Moonshadow]

What are you suggesting be the new term?

Slashadics?

Ouch, no thank you!

Re:What about Work?

[sleekcat]

ha ha. But he was probably thinking of something to do with software. But I like your answer better.

Re:What about Work?

[Merk]

People are dumb.

Same reason scandals get the suffix "gate". There was no "Gate" in Watergate, it was simply the name of a hotel.

Re:What about Work?

[Tony-A]

Is there a difference?
(*ducks and runs for cover*)

this is quite silly.

[seedvision]

People in general can become addicted to almost anything. Salt,Big Mac's, Pepsi, if there is a way to make reality a little more pleasureable someone is going to do it to excess. For that matter there are QVC addicts. The herd really needs to think about a little self control. Who knows they might enjoy not having blood shot eyes and blisters on their fingers everyday. I doubt it though.

Re:this is quite silly.

[billcopc]

Yes, the greatest example is how most people are addicted to money, often to the death.

Re:this is quite silly.

[Kirruth]

Yes, the greatest example is how most people are addicted to money, often to the death.

What's the line from Fight Club? "I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who have ever lived -- an entire generation pumping gas and waiting tables; or they're slaves with white collars. Advertisements have them chasing cars and clothes, working jobs they hate so they can buy shit they don't need."

WTF??!!

[mosch]

"The game almost ruined my life"

Just when you think you've hit the nadir, you discover there's still a huge fucking crevasse. People need to take resposibility for their actions, and shut the fuck up. Right now.

The game had nothing to do with his problems, nor any of the other problems described in this article, and likening video games to heroin is just rediculous.

These are just incontinent people. They understand that neglecting family, work, friends and what not is wrong, but they freely choose to do so. There's no physical addiction, their hair won't hurt when they stop playing, they can stop if they want to.

Yeah, I know somebody is going to say 'but they have an addictive personality.' Here's four words for people with addictive personalities, "sucks to be you." I'd try to feel bad for you, but everything can be addicting at some level, and a true addictive personality has to take extra care to make sure that they're getting hooked on good things, like exercise, family, laughter, and prostitutes, and stop blaming the rest of the world for making things you like.

Re:WTF??!!

[XBL]

I think the problem here is mental addiction.

1. Play Game.

2. Reluctantly stop playing game to do "real life stuff".

3. Do "real life stuff" all while thinking about Game.

4. Play Game again. Feel better until #2 comes again.

Re:WTF??!!

[freeweed]

These are just incontinent people.

They're pissing all over themselves? :)

I think mayhap you mean incompetent.

Re:WTF??!!

[mosch]

No, I meant incontinent. Aristotle described four categories of people.

1. virtuous -- they do what is right, and like it.
2. continent -- they do what is right, but they'd rather not.
3. incontinent -- they do what is wrong, but they know it's wrong and feel a little bad about it.
4. vicious -- they do what is wrong and have no qualms.

Re:WTF??!!

[freeweed]

I stand corrected.

What about those of us who do both right and wrong, and don't give a rat's ass? :)

Re:WTF??!!

[Jucius Maximus]

"Here's four words for people with addictive personalities, "sucks to be you.""

Yeah, it does suck to be me.

I was at one time totally addicted to Utopia until I realised that it was not a good idea to cancel a week-long vacation to play the game so I snapped out of it, killed my kingdom and quit. If I was able to get broadband where I live, I'd probably be addicted to Asheron's Call or Everquest at this moment.

I have come to believe that what is really required is education. Most people are not aware that gaming can be addictive and thus they don't consider the chance that it will happen to them. I didn't. But if people recognise that they have addictive personalities like mine, then they will be able to regulate themselves more effectively.

I know that such things are dangerous for me so I try to avoid things like "Evercrack" especially when I have other things like university classes to take care of. I am afraid of casinos because I can just see myself being robbed by the slot machines ... I mean it is statistically possible to win big money. And if I just gave up after losing $40 that would mean that I was there for no reason except to lose money so it would be more logical to go and win it back. But as we all know, slot machines are overall tilted so that in the end, the casino always wins.

But everyone knows about gambling addiction, especially since there was a Simpsons episode where Marge got addicted.

So how can gaming addiction be reduced? Educate, I say. Even if it means playing corny videos to schoolkids. Being able to identify a problem is the first step to solving it. "Because knowing is half the battle."

Re:WTF??!!

[56ker]

I got addicted to Utopia too! Finally decided enough was enough - I wasn't enjoying the new age anyway. Quitting was hard - but in the end worth it. When I wrote on /. about being addicted to Utopia I just got berated by someone who said it's impossible!

Re:WTF??!!

[dgroskind]

Aristotle described four categories of people

It appears that Aristotle would disagree with your analysis of incontinence in your original post:

These are just incontinent people. They understand that neglecting family, work, friends and what not is wrong, but they freely choose to do so. There's no physical addiction, their hair won't hurt when they stop playing, they can stop if they want to.

Aristotle said in Nicomachean Ethics regarding incontinent people: So, too, to the unjust and to the self-indulgent man it was open at the beginning not to become men of this kind, and so they are unjust and selfindulgent voluntarily; but now that they have become so it is not possible for them not to be so.

In other words, they can't simply stop if they want to, at least, according to Aristotle.

Re:WTF??!!

[Skuld-Chan]

I don't see exactly what your point is actually. People do get in trouble - addicted to things and I think its only human to try to help them out. And when you are addicted to something you almost have to do it just to feel normal after a while - its like a trap that you may have set for yourself.

But that aside I do really know a good friend who has wasted the better part of 3 years playing everquest. He doesn't seem to aknowledge he's an addict. But he's lost two pretty decent jobs, spent at least a year moving from friend to friend with his computer to mooch of free food, power and internet connection.

The once or twice I saw Everquest it seems they (the company who wrote the game) don't do too much to really help out - for instance it seems like it is real time world - for instance if you get hurt you have to stay online for whatever it takes to heal yourself. I literally waited half an hour at my friends place (back when he had one) to wait for an avatar of some sort before we went out to eat - and when it didn't work I had to leave him behind. It really does seem like you could spend 40 hours plus a week playing it and live a normal life in the game it self.

Unlike one of my old favorites Phantasy Star Online - if you get sick of it drop it no worries your character will be just fine when you come back online.

Personally I think I took responsibility for the game in the first place - I haven't played it - mostly because I don't have the time to.

Re:WTF??!!

[Danse]

Well, if the "real life stuff" that your supposed to do, or that your SO wants you to do is boring, then it's a bit more understandable. You'd rather be doing something fun than something boring. But when it becomes the only thing you do for fun, then yeah, there's probably a problem there. Especially if you start skipping work or school in order to play.

Re:WTF??!!

[maxpublic]

This is the addicts problem. It's *their* problem and *they* need to deal with it. The blame lies solely with them.

Max

Re:WTF??!!

[fmaxwell]

What a game addict needs is someone who regularly kicks the sh*t out of them if they spend more than a few hours a week playing a game. They need someone who will walk up to their computer, push them away from it, kill their imaginary character, give away all of the imaginary crap that they've amassed in the game, and unplug their Internet connection.

I read some of this stuff and it astounds me. People losing their jobs, spouses, and homes over computer games? That's not addiction. That's fucking stupidity and an inability to reason.

If you ever got "addicted" to a computer game to the point that it cost you friends, jobs, etc., do us all a favor: get sterilized or, at the least, always use birth control.

Re:WTF??!!

[fmaxwell]

Thank you for your ideas, Adolf.

Ah, the old you-are-like-Hitler troll. It's a classic. It stirs up emotion and yet requires only the most flimsy connection to be drawn. You took down my "warez" web site so you are like Hitler.... You don't want crack whores to breed so you are just like Hitler... You won't let me use your web site to slander someone so you're like Hitler... Nice try, but I've been using the Internet since it was called Arpanet and don't fall for that troll so easily.

So you think that mentally defective people whose lives can be dominated and ruined by computer games are fit to be parents? You believe that their children will grow up to be normal, happy, productive members of society? If genetics doesn't do the children in, their upbringing will. Face it, the kind of people that get addicted to computer games are broken. They aren't fit to be parents. Yeah, that would be a great upbringing, wouldn't it? Dad losing his job -- again -- because he called in sick 17 times in two months to play Diablo VII. Being evicted from your home because Dad spent the rent money on imaginary armor and weapons that he bought on ebay. Mom missing your performance in the school play because she too engrossed in EverQuest IV to go. Did you even read the article? How about this quote?:

The game was also implicated in the death last year of a Tampa, Fla., infant, whose father allegedly was so devoted to the game he fatally neglected the child.

Yeah, I'm the bad guy for saying people like that should not have children.

Re:WTF??!!

[Pussy Is Money]

It is very simplistic to suggest as you do that addicted people have a choice. Because not having a choice is exactly what defines "addiction" as opposed to "liking" or "spending too much time doing". If you can choose then you are not addicted.

Re:WTF??!!

[fmaxwell]

Isn't it amazing how everyone on the net has been using it since Arpanet.

I was using it on 110 baud ASR33 teletypes and 300 baud modems on HP 2640 series video terminals back in 1977. I had accounts on the MIT AI and MC machines. In 1980, I started programming professionally.

So, little boy, when did you start using computers?

Re:WTF??!!

[Skuld-Chan]

Thats an awfully isolationist attitude to have. If my friend is in the gutter naturally I want to extend a hand to help pull him out.

I'm sure you wouldn't take the same stance if a good friend of yours (maybe a girlfriend/wife even) became hopelessly addicted to drugs, alchohol or video games.

Re:WTF??!!

[sharkey]

What about those of us who do both right and wrong, and don't give a rat's ass?

"Dinseyous" - Making wonderful children's fare, then lobbying to make affordable watching of said fare illegal.

So...

[CleverNickName]

So does this mean we're going to see the Bush administration launch a War On Video Games(tm)?

Re:So...

[Farmer Jimbo]

Nope, he'd have to share a podium with Lieberman and you know that makes him break out in hives.

Re:So...

[evil_one]

The CNN article - the network they're launching, are they not the people that sign your paycheque?

Re:So...

[56ker]

If it were the UK the politicians would be launching a campaign to fight the *causes* of video games.

Re:So...

[Maskirovka]

That will be after the war on copyright infingment.

Re:So...

[Rogerborg]

• So does this mean we're going to see the Bush administration launch a War On Video Games(tm)?

Damn! There goes your job market!

----> ;-) <----

Re:So...

[Rakarra]

the bush administration would never be brave enough to name any enemy outright

It's not cowardice for not wanting to name an enemy outright, it's making the title broad enough to include more than a specific enemy. The current "War on Terrorism" is not a war on Osama bin Laden, the Taliban, or Afghanistan, it's a "war" against a much more vague target, allowing the administration to take far more action than a simple "down with Osama, down with Al'Quaida" would warrent.

Top 6 signs that your TV network is going to fail

[SocialWorm]

06. Name sounds like a system Apple came out with for no reason.
05. Your motto is "Get Game"
04. One of the your "original programs" is a show about simulations of sports.
03. Your target audiance is quite possibly the least likely to watch TV among those with access to them. And you know they have "short attention spans".
02. Executive quoted as saying "We won't compete."*
01. Logo rendered on an Atari 2600. Englarged with MS-Paint.

*A bit of a misquote, I know, but no less funny for it. :)

Hmph.

[pseudofrog]

Rediculous. Preposterous. Idiotic. Stupid. Video games addictive? HA!

I'd write more but I have a great game of Civ going...

Henron what?

[felipeal]

Heroinware? That sounds like something related to Heroine Virtual's software...

Yahoo! Pool

[XBL]

I have never ever been into gaming of any sort, but now I have gotten addicted to Yahoo! Pool (games.yahoo.com). I have played like 1500 games... and I have seen some people on there with over 3000 games under their belt. I talked to a couple of people I played against, who admitted they have been playing for 6 hours or more straight.

Luckily Yahoo! is starting to charge $10 a month of special privileges, like set tourneys. I have forced myself to stay away from those, and the "ladders".

There is nothing really that great about this game, except that its free, and loads up easy into the web browser. Just goes to show that a game doesn't have to be great to be addicting.

Stay away from Yahoo! Pool!

Re:Yahoo! Pool

[phalse phace]

"I have gotten addicted to Yahoo! Pool"

You think that's bad? Well, I'm addicted to pocket pool. And I've played (with) it over 1500 times.

Re:Yahoo! Pool

[luserSPAZ]

http://luser.masturbatesfrequently.com/calculator. php
^-- Get a reasonable estimate.

According to my calculations, I've done it approximately 2852 times. It's a wonder I have time to do anything else.

Re:Yahoo! Pool

[GigsVT]

Speaking of addiction to little simple games like that. My mom is totally addicted to FreeCell. I know it was a fad a few years back, but she got into it when I got an MS Entertainment Pack sampler disk free with some Maxell blank floppies around 1995-1996.

You know how the games are numbered in the windows version? 1-32768? Well, she has played every one, sequentially, and won all of them, except for the one that is mathematically impossible to win.

She started over at game #1 about 6 months ago. She can play about 60 games per hour on average. She didn't used to be that fast, so lets assume 2 minutes per game. She also replays the games she loses until she wins them.

So, over the last 6 years, she has put over 1000 hours into FreeCell, that's 45 solid 24 hour days.

30 hours?

[moronga]

From the article:

Angie said her live-in boyfriend spends at least 30 hours a week playing "EverQuest" as a female elf...

This is supposed to be an example of compulsive behavior? 30 hours a week?! What a fucking lightweight.

When I was a kid, we used to play 30 hours a day. And we didn't have no live-in girlfriend either.

:)

Re:30 hours?

[0x0d0a]

I understand why she doesn't like the amount of time he spends on it, but I wanna know why she's so hung up about her boyfriend playing a female elf.

There shouldn't be a social stigma for every guy to play a male human and every female to play a female human. The entire point of these games is that you're role-playing something exotic, something not mundane. If you're just role-playing yourself, save the money you're sending to the EQ people and just go out and live life.

Re:30 hours?

[Ziviyr]

If you're just role-playing yourself, save the money you're sending to the EQ people and just go out and live life.

Sure, you save money killing movie attendants instead of clockwork spiders. Its still not something people will praise you for.

Remember...

[Pvt_Waldo]

the first one is always free.

my story...

[cowtamer]

You guys are making light of the situation, but it is not so funny for those of us who have been through it...

It started in middle school with the Apple][. Addiction to BASIC kept me from the smell of sweet, sweet glue...

Back in the early 90's, I had to forego many high school drinking parties to play Civilization...

In college, I never went to a rave because I was too busy MUDding--never got to taste Ecstasy

And now that I am gainfully employed, I spend all my spare cash on broadband internet connections and online games--my drug dealer is getting really upset with me!!!

Good Ol' Everquest

[draed]

I've spent the better part of the last 3 years playing everquest and I've seen many people waste away.

The players who make up the high level game spend MASSIVE amounts of time in game. I know many people who have over 300+ DAYS of time logged into the game...

Players often quit, only to return a few months later usually with an excuse like *RL is boring* or something similar. Sounds more and more like drug addiction doesn't it?

The thing that worries me the most though is that most of these people are kids who are either in high school or just got out. They have no ambition or desire to do anything but play everquest. When I was their age I was spending all my time programming, reading books, and learning skills necessary to succeed in life. If everquest were around back then, I would probably be working fast food making $6 a hour now.

Almost every game company out there now is making a MMORPG like everquest. Worlds of warcraft, shadowbane, neverwinter nights, final fantasy XI, Everquest for the console, star wars galaxies, daoc, anarchy online, and many more. The market is going to be completely saturated with heroinware in the next fear years.

The current generation of kids growing up is going to be nothing but a bunch of computer crazed, game addicted losers who spend all their time in some virtual world slaying some pixel dragon.

Oh well, I'm glad I quit (again).

Re:Good Ol' Everquest

[lkaos]

The current generation of kids growing up is going to be nothing but a bunch of computer crazed, game addicted losers who spend all their time in some virtual world slaying some pixel dragon.

Wait a second, I think it is more reasonable for a high school kid to be playing a video game as he has no real responsibility in life yet. If you, as an adult, have created a life for yourself where you spend 3 years playing a video game, well, I would say that you are the loser my friend.

Being young is about experimenting. Play lots of video games, drink lots of beer, sleep with all sorts of girls who drink lots of beer. Then you grow up. At least these kids have youth as an excuse.

BTW: I can speak on behalf of this "current generation" of computer geeks in saying that I despise video games and spend no time playing them. There are just as many adult "game addicted losers."

Oh well, I'm glad I quit (again).

You "quit" a video game? What in the world makes you get up out of bed in the morning? To treat a video game with such mysticism, I simply cannot understand it. It's funny that you qualify your statement with "(again)" because I have a feeling that you are simply acknowledging the inevitable, that you will eventually go back to consuming your time with video games.

I'm sorry to be harsh man, but your sense of philanthropy is most disgusting. You comment that if you played video games as a kid, you'd be making $6 an hour, well, assuming you making the code monkey's salary now, you can't possibly be any happier. It doesn't matter if you make 15k a year or 35k a year if your still leading a miserable existance.

Re:Good Ol' Everquest

[Anthy]

What about the responsibility of the parents? My younger brother would probably play CS all day if he could, but he doesn't mainly because my mother doesn't let him. This is for several reasons. Firstly to force him to do his homework. Secondly because she believes that staring at a computer screen all day ruins his eyes. And I come from a low income, non-English speaking family whose parents work extremely long hours. It also helps that we can only afford one computer and when you have several siblings all trying to get on that one computer...

One thing I think is that modern Western parents ie the Baby Boomer generation want to be "buddies" with their kids. And so refuse to do things like pull the cord on their kids internet connection if they've been on for 10 hours because they don't want their kids to "hate" them. They don't want to "interfere" with their kids. They really need to forget about this "I want to be your friend, not your mother" attitude and concentrate on being a *parent*. Be yes assured, my brother (and I) moan and groan when our internet connection gets pulled but kids *always* moan and groan when a toy gets taken away. Sometimes parents have to get in there and "interfere" with their precious baby's "development".

Still, if your kid hates your guts just for stopping their CS or Everquest game, your parent-kid relationship needs help that only a qualified counsellor can provide.

Re:Good Ol' Everquest

[Ayatollah]

Maybe it isn't that bad. It gives those of us with crappy jobs something to think about while waiting for the boomers to retire or die. And neither seems all that likely now.

Re:Good Ol' Everquest

[Squeeze Truck]

...at which point the Inuit will conquer the Western World with nothing more than their harpoons and skinning knives.

This is what civilizations look like in advanced stages of decline, people. Take a good look; only one generation every 800 years or so gets to witness this phenomenon.

Future civilizations will wonder how such a powerful society went to shit so fast, and won't have any obvious answers.

Re:Good Ol' Everquest

[Kallahar]

Excellent point. One of the reasons I have always hated consoles (ie N, N64, Sega, etc) is that the system (and the time invested) has no redeeming purpose. In the early days of PC's (386 era) we would spend substantial amounts of time just trying to get the damn computer to work. During that time we would learn a LOT about how it all worked, how to debug, how to program, etc, which has now lead me to a $75,000 a year job right out of college. People addicted to games like this today don't go through any of that, they just spend time in the game world and don't really learn much that translates into the real world...

But then again, it's their life and their choice.

Hehe, addictions...

[long_john_stewart_mi]

That reminds me of a comedy sketch about an addicts' group:

Man: Hi, my name's Joe, and I'm addicted to junk food. I'm not sure I can do this.

Woman: Don't be frightened, tell us your story.

Man: Well, at first it was just a donut here, a chocolate bar there, but then it got out of control... I sucked dick for butter tarts, man!

Woman: My God! That's disgusting! You're beyond help!

*Man walks away in shame*

Woman: Now, let's continue...

*See man walk back, steal tray of desserts*

Other man: Hey! He didn't even suck our dicks!

I suppose I'll be modded down for being off topic, but it was funny at the time. =)

Games aren't addictive!

[Shiny Metal S.]

Don't worry, games aren't addictive

Of course games aren't addictive. Games were addictive! Today I was playing Day Of The Tentacle for something like 18 hours, thanks to the brave guys from ScummVM! Special greetings to Ludvig, great work! I'll send you bills from my oculist! :) OK, now must sleep...

The Work-Game is also Heroinware

[jellybear]

Yeah! ...and you forgot to mention, these heroineware-dealing corporations keep their employees addicted with rewards of equipment, money and status, to keep them playing. By playing the "work game", these unfortunate addicts build up their inventory and equipment, accumulating items such as cars, houses, furniture. These items allow them to "awe" their fellow players, thereby achieving a sort of social approval that they otherwise would not be able to get.

The organizers of "work-games" also set up "quests" and "meetings" in which players assemble and engage in social interaction, all within the context of furthering their game goals. The quest for magical items and treasure brings together individuals who otherwise might not have much social interaction.

Re:The Work-Game is also Heroinware

[binarytoaster]

By playing the "work game", these unfortunate addicts build up their inventory and equipment, accumulating items such as cars, houses, furniture. These items allow them to "awe" their fellow players, thereby achieving a sort of social approval that they otherwise would not be able to get.

Holy shit.

Now, the question is... is real life pointless, or are games my ultimate purpose? Jeez, I thought Diablo and such were pointless because of that.. :p

Notice they're all americans

[QuantumG]

When was the last time you heard a european or a japanese person bitching that a game "ruined" their life. Get a fucking grip.

Re:Notice they're all americans

[nmx]

Actually, I can't remember what the game was, but I remember hearing that some Japanese people were killing each other in cybercafes over some MMORPG.

Re:Notice they're all americans

[moronga]

Actually, I can't remember what the game was, but I remember hearing that some Japanese people were killing each other in cybercafes over some MMORPG

The game is Lineage and it was Koreans, not Japanese. The article was slashdotted here:

Taking Games Seriously in Korea

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/06/04/175624 0

Re:Notice they're all americans

[PD]

When was the last time you heard a european or a japanese person bitching that a game "ruined" their life.

You might be hearing these people saying that stuff ALL THE TIME, but if you don't speak Japanese, you'd never guess it.

Re:Notice they're all americans

[Skuld-Chan]

You need to read japanese newspapers more often - I'd recomend the english (side at least) rag mainichi daily news (mainichi literally means every day around the clock). At any rate - I've found that in my Japanese studies they suffer from a lot (not all) of the same things we do.

http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/

I should use preview more :)

[red5]

Oops I should use preview more ;)
Here's my post without the typos and spelling errors.
Slashaholics?

Okay this is a pet peeve of mine.
Why do people insist on adding the 'aholics' suffix to mean addiction?.
It's a substring of alcoholics.
Which is derived from alcohol.
Why not Slashdot Addicts?

Get G4 on your local provider!

[NickV]

Apparently G4, the gaming channel is only going to be avalible for Comcast out of the box. However, go to the g4tv website and if you wade through all the flash you can write an EMAIL to your provider demanding G4.

With digital cable and DSS providers and their excessive channel capacitiy, all that needs to be done is have your voice heard and I'm sure we'll get it everywhere soon. Use the /. effect for good! :)

Addiction != Bad Thing

[Shiny Metal S.]

These are just incontinent people. They understand that neglecting family, work, friends and what not is wrong, but they freely choose to do so.

The addiction itself is not always a Bad Thing. Thank God that this guy and few other maniacs were addicted to music.

Re:This article is inaccurate

[Edmund Blackadder]

I think video games addiction is worse than coffee and cigarettes and heroin addiction in that, playing videogames just forces you away from the rest of the world.

Even very serious coffee and tabaco addictions will not prevent the victim to function in society.

That is true about heroin as well, up to a point.

correction to your "correction"

[dangermouse]

Erm, no. "Incontinent" means "lacking control". "Incompetent" wouldn't make any sense here.

Re:Heroin gets a bum rap

[prizzznecious]

While you're very wrong about the withdrawal symptoms (at least from what I've witnessed; I've never experienced them myself, but I've never seen a flu victim scream like that), you're quite right that heroin is physically barely addictive at all. It takes a while to get hooked. Moreover, it does no damage to your body at all (except at the point of entry).

hmmm

[Edmund Blackadder]

Yep lets blame those people because they dont take responsibility.

that statement is:

-very old and has been repeated millions times for alchoholics, drug addicts, overeaters, undereaters, gamblers, people with depression etc.

-shortsighted

-completely useless because it has never helped anyone and tends to force people deeper into their addictions.

Re:hmmm

[Wakko Warner]

So, instead, we should blame everyone else but the sole person responsible?

You're a fucking retard.

- A.P.

Re:hmmm

[MulluskO]

So, instead, we should blame everyone else but the sole person responsible?

Did he say that? Did he imply we should blame everyone else but the sole person responsible?
I'd say that 'addiction' to EverQuest is more of a symptom than a disease, but putting text[words] into someone's post[mouth] and then attacking them isn't the way to debate.

Re:hmmm

[Squeeze Truck]

TV is addictive. 97% of Americans regularly watch TV. If you are correct, then 97% of americans are "diseased".

If that's true, then... what's normal?

Personally, I have no problem calling 97% of americans diseased. That sure matches my experience pretty well.

computer addiction in general

[Syre]

I'm computer addicted, though I play no online games.

I don't think one can blame the game so much as the medium and what it allows one to do.

There's something very mesmerizing about the screen in general (look at all the TV addicts) and it gets even more compelling with interaction.

Are you addicted? Take this online test and see.

This page also contains some good information and links.

I am trying to wean myself of all but the most necessary computer use, but so far it's not going too well.

I thought of a system that would disconnect my internet connection except at certain hours (since that seems to be the biggest part of the problem), but I would probably just get around it if I wanted to. Or maybe not... could be a good start.

Anyone with any suggestions please reply!

Re:computer addiction in general

[NateKid]

I personally make bets with friends that I can reduce computer porn usage, as well as generic internet usage (like in that Seinfeld episode where George gave up masturbation). It works pretty well except for my frequent lawyering...

Re:computer addiction in general

[Syre]

No troll: I do think computers in general can be quite addictive AND it's not just what I think.

Psychologists have written quite a number of popular articles on the problem as well as scholarly papers on treatment.

There's even a Center for Online and Internet Addiction which offers treatment... via email and chat (sounds perhaps counter-productive to me?)!

I troll you not!

Re:computer addiction in general

[Oriumpor]

Why is it being addicted to this medium is a BAD thing?... Yes evercrack and others do limit ones social abilities. But I have no problem staring at a pile of code for hours on end just looking for the end of the spaghetti.

You can always read a book. Oh wait, but if I read a book for more than 2 hours a day am I an addict!?... if I spill through 3-4 books a week, because I enjoy the escape, does it mean I'm addicted?

There is no incentive for me to read for X amount of hours. But in a game like evercrack (and every other MMORPG) the more you play, the more you advance. In order for people not to invest massive blocks of time into a MMORPG the game would have to be goal based, and not investment based. But even then, there would be the die-hards who play just for the escape. Again I say, because I play MOO2 for more than 2 hours at a time, am I an addict?

/game
200:00:00

Hmmm Heroinware?

[quantaman]

Ahhh!
*blind ignorance sets in and an air of superiority is asserted*
Of course you must of meant Dope Wars!

Here's what it is:

[Uncle Gropey]

It's just that our real lives tend to suck. This makes fantasy lives so appealing... Can we hope for the day when our real lives are as stimulating and rewarding as the games are today?

Re:Here's what it is:

[teamhasnoi]

No.

Re:Here's what it is:

[GigsVT]

Just run Linux and get a job running Linux. It's like one big RPG.

I prefer "Heroineware"...

[Tokerat]

...like Laura Croft. MMMmmmm.

Gee Wiz!

[cdaley]

"Is your game playing a hobby or a pathological behavior pattern? Computer Addiction Services at Harvard University-affiliated McLean Hospital says psychological and physical symptoms of addiction include the following:

Inability to stop the activity

Neglect of family and friends

Lying to employers and family about activities

Problems with school or job

Carpal tunnel syndrome

Dry eyes

Failure to attend to personal hygiene

Sleep disturbances or changes in sleep patterns"

And exactly HOW are these symptoms different from my brief episode of masturbation addiction? or any other addiction, really. Or, say, a hard day at work? But who am I to question them? They ARE the experts.

Re:Gee Wiz!

[GigsVT]

Under those standards, tobacco isn't addictive. In fact, by most measures of addiction, tobacco doesn't fall into it, except for the inability to quit.

Slashdot requires you to wait 2 minutes between
each successful posting of a comment to allow everyone a fair chance at posting a comment.

Fuck you lameness filter. Waiting.... waiting.....waiting... OK

The New Addiction: Cyberdrugs

[NeuroPulse]

understmdT. pops in: "Don't worry, games aren't addictive" Most games are not addictive. Only a particular type, and the reasons are still unraveling. This is a new type of addiction. Anonymous Coward: "if...they enjoy EQ, OF COURSE they're going to spend a lot of time playing it." The problem is they do not enjoy it. They are miserable as a resul of playing it. That's why the article is called "When games stop being fun". mosch: "...but they freely choose to do so. There's no physical addiction, their hair won't hurt when they stop playing, they can stop if they want to." Something happens in the brain with this particular type of game that is just like what happens when someone is taking an addictive drug. I know it is hard to believe, but it is true. That's why there is ever increasing coverage of it. It is a bizarre unexpected new addiction. danny256: "The biggest issue is there is no withdraw, if I take an everquest freak and make him stop playing, he will get better every minute" There is withdrawel. When your playing you feel bad, and when you stop, you feel worse. So bad, that you return to playing. Sound like I am speaking from experience? I am. It is a very bizarre problem to which I and others are giving a great deal of thought to figure out why this happens and only with a particular type of game. I have always enjoyed spending long hours playing video games. Keyword: "enjoy". Now something very different happens with an MMORPG. At first it was fun like any other game or enjoyable activity. You are having more fun than before you were playing. But eventually and very slowly, so slowly that you don't realize it is happening, it changes. If I knew it would happen or could see it happening I wouldn't have played. Well, I am not going to go into all the details, but it did get to the point where I was experiencing hallucinations. I had gotten so low and was so miserable that I finally knew I had to stop cold turkey or I never would get out of it alive. I knew I feel much worse for a while before I felt better, but I knew I had to stop. Well, it was a while ago, and I am all better now. Totally over it. It was an educational experience. I have learned from it. Like I said if I had known that would happen, would never have started playing. And thats the reason for all this attention this new form of addiction is getting. People need to know. I think there should be a warning label, though most people, at least at first, will not take it seriously, will not believe it could happen to them, but awareness will increase and eventually understanding the problem will be common knowledge. Note, this doesn't happen with everyone. Certain people are probably genetically predisposed just like with alcoholism. Knowing alcolism runs in one's family, those people avoid alcohol. foo fighter: "Joking about people whose lives have degenerated into living a virtual existance while their former friends and loved ones leave them is in the poorest of taste." Thank you. I hope this posting has increased someone's understanding of the problem.

Re:The New Addiction: Cyberdrugs

[Kohath]

NeuroPulse tries to hit the Enter key and misses!
NeuroPulse tries to hit the Enter key and misses!
NeuroPulse tries to hit the Enter key and misses!
NeuroPulse tries to hit the Enter key and misses!

Re:The New Addiction: Cyberdrugs

[mgblst]

EQ isn't that hard to give up. I give it up almost several times a day!

Re:The New Addiction: Cyberdrugs

[E-Rock]

I'm like 99% sure you're a troll, but if you're not I pity you. YOU chose to play, YOU chose not to quit, YOU feel bad, YOU need to fucking deal. If you're that damn weak, then next time you get a lucid moment throw the computer out your window.

Re:The New Addiction: Cyberdrugs

[Squeeze Truck]

There is withdrawel. When your playing you feel bad, and when you stop, you feel worse. So bad, that you return to playing.

Bing bing bing bing bing!

You hit the nail right between the eyes there. That sums up my addiction perfectly.

How Do They Pay?

[Toxxy]

How do these folks come up with the money to pay for their gaming habit? If they haven't left the house for years, I'm going to assume that means that they don't have jobs.

I'm sure a lot of people would be quick to interject the fact that EQ items are sold all the time on online auction services, but I think it's a stretch of the imagination to say that they're all doing that. What seems to be the case is that mommy and daddy are paying for their habit.

If mommy and daddy are taking financial responsibility for their habit, what would make sense would be to stop paying for it. How can you blame Sony for offering an addictive service if you're the one who's feeding them money?

I say put one of these so-called addicts in their own apartment, maybe pay for their rent and food, and see how long their addiction lasts. Think about what would happen if you were to kick one of these folks out of the house? Or if you were to destroy the power cable running from the PSU (or indeed soon, PS2) to the wall?

I'm not going to say that I don't play more than my share of Q3A or UT, but for Christ's sake, what's going to happen if you do some kind of drastic action that forces them to quit cold turkey? Are they going to get a case of "the shakes" or something?

The New Addiction: Cyberdrugs

[NeuroPulse]

T. pops in: "Don't worry, games aren't addictive"

Most games are not addictive. Only a particular type, and the reasons are still unraveling. This is a new type of addiction.

Anonymous Coward: "if...they enjoy EQ, OF COURSE they're going to spend a lot of time playing it."

The problem is they do not enjoy it. They are miserable as a resul of playing it. That's why the article is called "When games stop being fun".

mosch: "...but they freely choose to do so. There's no physical addiction, their hair won't hurt when they stop playing, they can stop if they want to."

Something happens in the brain with this particular type of game that is just like what happens when someone is taking an addictive drug. I know it is hard to believe, but it is true. That's why there is ever increasing coverage of it. It is a bizarre unexpected new addiction.

danny256: "The biggest issue is there is no withdraw, if I take an everquest freak and make him stop playing, he will get better every minute"

There is withdrawel. When your playing you feel bad, and when you stop, you feel worse. So bad, that you return to playing.

Sound like I am speaking from experience? I am. It is a very bizarre problem to which I and others are giving a great deal of thought to figure out why this happens and only with a particular type of game. I have always enjoyed spending long hours playing video games. Keyword: "enjoy". Now something very different happens with an MMORPG. At first it was fun like any other game or enjoyable activity. You are having more fun than before you were playing. But eventually and very slowly, so slowly that you don't realize it is happening, it changes. If I knew it would happen or could see it happening I wouldn't have played. Well, I am not going to go into all the details, but it did get to the point where I was experiencing hallucinations. I had gotten so low and was so miserable that I finally knew I had to stop cold turkey or I never would get out of it alive. I knew I feel much worse for a while before I felt better, but I knew I had to stop.

Well, it was a while ago, and I am all better now. Totally over it. It was an educational experience. I have learned from it. Like I said if I had known that would happen, would never have started playing. And thats the reason for all this attention this new form of addiction is getting. People need to know. I think there should be a warning label, though most people, at least at first, will not take it seriously, will not believe it could happen to them, but awareness will increase and eventually understanding the problem will be common knowledge.

Note, this doesn't happen with everyone. Certain people are probably genetically predisposed just like with alcoholism. Knowing alcolism runs in one's family, those people avoid alcohol.

foo fighter: "Joking about people whose lives have degenerated into living a virtual existance while their former friends and loved ones leave them is in the poorest of taste."

Thank you.

I hope this posting has increased someone's understanding of the problem.

The soulution is...

[BigMucho]

There was a time when my "Asheron's Call" addiction was getting a bit out of hand... to the point where my girlfriend was starting to complain a bit... my solution? Buy a second account and have her create a character of her own... she's since become addicted as I am. We now spend loads of time together as a "Warrior" and a "Mage" almost every night... problem solved! :)

Re:The soulution is...

[GigsVT]

There was a time when my crack addiction was getting out of hand. My girlfriend was starting to complain a bit. My solution? I just bought her a crack pipe and now we both smoke up and use our moderation points on Slashdot together! :)

Re:The soulution is...

[berniecase]

Perhaps The Sims Online would work for them...

http://thesimsonline.ea.com/home.html

Re:The soulution is...

[Ziviyr]

And you don't share needl^H^H^H^H^Hcomputers so its relatively safe.

Not useless

[Kohath]

The statement isn't useless. Telling screwed-up people to "take responsibility" may or may not help them. If it helps everyone else realize that, basically, their addictions are their problem and not my problem, then I'm better off.

Useless to the addicted? Maybe.

Useless to people who want to play a game (or do more-or-less anything) without worrying about someone else's personal shortcomings? No. Very useful.

Re:Not useless

[Kohath]

And that as a member of society, you have a responsibility to help those around you who have serious problems.

Ok, but that's for me to decide. On a case-by-case basis, I'll decide who I'll help, how much, and in what manner. In a free society, I have the freedom to choose. In a society where innocent people like me are ruled-over by people like you, then you'd get to make that choice for me.

But you're just a prick who'd rather live his own life.

Someone who wants to live his own life is a prick now. I guess that's how you (not a prick at all, but rather one of The Good People) justify taking the freedom away from the rest of us pricks. It's your responsibility, after all.

some comments

[CanadaMan]

I'd like to comment on this concept of addiction to computer games, and, indeed, on addiction in general. In particular, I'm interested in where the causes for and, thus, solutions to, addiction lie.

First, the causes: there seems to be two camps, personified by some other comments to this story. The first response, which I suppose we can call the socio-cultural cause, implies that people become addicted to these games because society has created an environment in which the individuals feel no particular motivation to participate in what we would call normal behaviour patterns. The post in this example has claimed that in fact individuals who are not shown basic respect tend to withdraw to their own space. I think that this is largely true. But to claim that individuals who have so-called addictive personalities should not accept responsibility for their behaviour is also not quite right. Of course, the poster that I have referred to did no such thing but the next poster that I will refer to seems to imply that that is the case.

So this is the second comment, and it is one that essentially berates individuals with addictive personalities as being weak-minded, lesser people because of their difficulties. This too is the wrong approach. As with everything, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. It is probably true that socio-cultural factors have a lot to do with the creation of not only people with addictive personalities but in fact with personalities, period. Many theorists have suggested this and I think it's clear that the evidence bears it out. Put simply, when talking about selves or, if you prefer, subjects, culture is both the constructor and the constructed. The point that I want to make, however, is that in the case of addictions and addictive people, this fact ought to be made aware to them in a proper setting, such as a therapists's office or in the confidence of a close and trusted friend. What I mean to say, of course, is that a person with an addiction problem needs to be treated with respect and understanding such that they may be able to come to realize that, once they are made aware of the elements of the world around them that construct their realities, they can and should choose to alter their outlook and thus alter their behaviour.

So really my point is just that while personalities are socially constructed they are also able to be reformed by people who become intellectually aware of their situation. This is an important point, and it's the point that, I think, bridges the gap between mosch's point and Chasing Amy's point. Also, I want to suggest that there is a good reason to begin to examine in empirical detail how it is that culture shapes subjects and thus how we need to change our culture to change how subjects are. This would seem to alleviate a large number of our problems, if it could be done.

Also keep in mind that the addiction that is talked about in the news.com article is pretty serious. It's probably not a good idea to confuse occasional game-playing with real addiction.

Re:some comments

[maxpublic]

As another poster pointed out, if the game is that addictive then *someone* has to be supporting their habit, as they have no way to earn income on their own. That being said, whoever is supporting Johnny's obsession should pull the damn plug and see how he likes having no computer access at all. Or even kick his ass out of the house and try to juggle his EQ addiction with a job, rent, bills, and so forth.

Max

Re:some comments

[CanadaMan]

Your comment highlights an important problem within our capitalist system. Put simply, the system is blind to the nature of its own force as constructor. Not only people with addictive personalities but people who for whatever reason are unable to support themselves are usually in that position because they can't get themselves out of it. Nobody wants to live on the street. Thus we live in a system which is not responsible for the situation that it often puts people in.

Consider this fact: in most jurisdictions, minimum wage does not pay enough for someone to earn enough income to live above or at the poverty line while working fourty hours a week. One idea that I had read put forth by a philosopher/economist whose name currently escapes me but which particularly brought a chuckle to my face was that the government should give every person a chunk of money on their 19th or 21st birthday, depending on jurisdiction, and this would allow individuals to choose for themselves how they wanted to enter the marketplace. Obviously, it is a radical idea and there are problems with it but there are many creative solutions lurking about in the minds of geeks like us and others. I suppose that statement would lead me to lament the lack of creative vision in our politicians and bureaucrats. Solving the issues within our society requires vision and creativity. Suggesting that everyone who has trouble coping in a world full of so much shit ought to be left to their own devices seems not to understand exactly what's going on. Of course, I might suggest that there are some people who did end up being kicked out on their asses and those people dusted themselves off and worked hard and are now merely helping the culture to shape subjects in the same fashion that caused these addictive personalities to arise in the first place.

Re:some comments

[maxpublic]

I'm not suggesting that addicts be abandoned. But in this case *somebody* has to be paying for the computer time and it ain't Johnny since he's too much of a drone to haul his fat ass out of the chair. That 'somebody' should pull the goddamn plug.

Letting Johnny sit at home and use your computer to further his addiction is no different than giving him money so he can go out and buy crack.

Max

news flash

[captaincucumber]

masturbation is addictive. coffee is addictive.

so what?

Anyway, I'd say you really have a problem if you find yourself drinking coffee and masturbating while playing everquest.

Re:news flash

[Dwaynewayne]

Hey! I don't have a problem...

Someone start a support group! / Why it won't last

[supabeast!]

I can no longer easily count the friends I have seen do serious damage to their "real" lives by playing these games. I know numerous people who have lost their jobs, signifigant others, social lives, and even their sanity due to addictions to EverQuest, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, and StarCraft. Sometimes in my circle of friends, I am the weird one for being the person who goes out and interacts with the real world, and not vice versa.

What really scares me, though, is that I don't find the term heroinware at all offensive, because I actually know more people who have completely ruined their lives with these games than I do people who have ruined everything with drugs - and at least the drug users manage to quit!

Seriously, this problem is just beginning to rear its ugly head. Once Blizzard releases World of Warcraft, things are going to get really, really nasty, as entire offices have their IT departments stripped on important "game days." And that will be the beginning of the end for these virtual worlds; as companies lose the benefits of computers to an increasing number of problem staff members, there WILL be some sort of legislation to wean geeks away from these games.

Really.

Too long

[JamesOfTheDesert]

"Heroinware" is too hard to say.

Better "smackware"

Gambling is addictive; why not gaming?

[gkoo]

No one really laughs at gambling addiction; why isn't gaming addiction taken seriously? Researchers have found that gambling generates similar brain patterns as cocaine usage. Gaming certainly shares many characteristics with gambling.

As someone who has personally become addicted to all sorts of games ranging from Civ to RPGs to Mechwarrior to Tetris, I think gaming addictions should be studied seriously.

Speaking of which, what am I doing here, at this hour???

Of course...

[Moonshadow]

...this gives new meaning the the "shoot-em-up" genre.

Just watch, we're going to get drug sims pretty soon. "All the high without the disease!"

Great game idea!

[da cog]

Wow, that would make such a great RTS...

You could play on one of three sides: Evil government operatives trying to end video gaming as we know it, valiant heroes defending our right to slaughter each other in cyberspace, and the poor video-game-addicted sops who are in the middle of it all.

The key to making this game succeed would be to include lawyers walking around as ambient creatures like the sheep in Warcraft II. If you click on them enough times, they explode.

Re:HAHAHAHA

[Permission Denied]

do not mod puns up please. It makes you look as stupid as the guy that made the "joke".

The original post was NOT a pun. Dammit, that's why it was so funny. People like me get it, but people like you don't get it. It deserves to be modded up because it's extremely funny to anyone with a decent grasp of English orthography.

Heroin is a narcotic.

A Heroine is a female hero.

Heroineware must have something to do with female heros, because heroine has nothing to do with the opiate.

frankly, I dont care

[pherthyl]

I just can't bring myself to care even one little bit about people that get "addicted" to everquest and the like. If it turns kids into "computer crazed, game addicted losers" like you say then thats perfectly fine with me. Makes for more opportunities for those who can control themselves. Kinda like natural selection. I have absolutely no respect or compassion for those who allow themselves to be sucked into something that IS NOT PHYSICALLY ADDICTIVE. Yes I see how it could happen but anyone with an iota of sense can easily avoid it. And of course everyone wants to shove the blame on someone else. "aww, everquest ruined my life, I'm gonna sue." SHUT UP! If you can't take responsibility for your own actions and just want to leech off of others you might as well just jump off a cliff right now.

you'd be surprised

[Edmund Blackadder]

You would be surprised how many "normal people" are actually heroin addicts.

Lawyers, bussinessmen, actors, etc.

Parenting takes a backseat obviously.

[Mulletproof]

Y'know, there are some things that should be regulated while your still under your parents roof. I know, it pains me to say it, but it's true. And through all this Ever-crack/Heroin-ware BS, I have to ask myself "Where are the parents?!" You simply can't expect a kid to know what's good for them. I sure as hell didn't (Heh, I may be the exception). But how you could just blindly ignore that aspect of your child's developement is beyond me. I would think somewhere parents would be noticing a problem developing and intervene. "Hey, little Jimmy's seems to withdrawing from the world, spending a lot of time playing Q3/Everquest. You think there might be a problem?"

It's not a problem with our games. It's a problem with our families. Especially if they're at work a good chunk of the time. Yeah, they're making a living for the family while Jimmy's brain is dissolving on "acid-ware" or any of the innumerable activities a kid can get in trouble at. Just one example. I'm not Dr. Spock here, but kids need supervision and some form of regulation in their activities... ~sigh~

They are right, you know

[daemonc]

...Now i'm going to go back to playing Dark Age of Camelot.

Blatent Karma Whore

[James_G]

First one's free! :)

Anyone who says, "The Company made me..

[teamhasnoi]

do it!", is basically saying they are a fucking idiot and watch TV commercials in an amazed state of wonder. Granted, market something enough and you will have moron after moron lining up to buy. Examples:

Britney Spears

McDonalds

The War on Terror/Drugs/Brown People

Windows

Duke Nukem Never

Anything Oprah says

Larry FucKING Ellison and his Big Brother Oracle

SUVs

Wine Coolers

Pet Rocks

Pokemon

Jerry Springer

The Olympics

Creed..I mean Perl Jam...no, I mean Creed.

Scienfuckingtology

Cigarettes

Miss Fake-ass Cleo

DisneyLand/World/Movies

Beanie Babies and the Cultist Collectors of Crap

Packard Bell

Star Wars - The Movie, and the Politicians who want to make it.

Senator Hollings and his Bills o' Plenty (what's the focus group tested name this week?)

Dick Cheney is in perfect health.

Planet Hollingswood

.NET

Michael Jackson

AOL - Now eaiser to use!

The Ab Rider/Blaster/Roller/Master/Baiter

There are many more, of course. Just watch any TV channel, radio station, magazine, ect. The difference between personal responsibillity and corporate responsibillity is easy to see. Corporate responsibillity is to see that you buy what they are selling. YOU are responsible for weighing the pros and cons of the decisions YOU make. You want to play EQ for 40 hours a week? Fine. Just make sure you turned off the oven. You want to smoke a half of Green? Better make sure you still got your job.

In other words: Take the fall you set yourself up for and stop fucking whining about how it's 'not my fault :( Wahhh'

It's not just MMRPGs

[Alex2000]

You know, we look at so called POWERGAMERS playing MMRPGs and suddenly they are addicts who need help.

But before Everquest and Ultima there were addicting games. I remember logging hours and hours with CIV1 in Highschool. In College I remember logging obscene amounts of time playing UT and chatting late into the night on ICQ.

And yes, I cut some classes. In fact, so did my roommate. He cut so many classes playing computer games he had to drop out! He even skipped an exam because he was too busy playing games on his computer.

basically what I am saying is the problem has always been around. Before MMRPGS, these shy, anti-social people might have just read books to escape.

Heck, Simon and Garfunkel wrote about this in the 60's:

• I am a rock
• 
  I am an island
  
  I have my books
  And my poetry to protect me
  I am shielded in my armor
  Hiding in my room
  Safe within my womb
  I touch no-one and no-one touches me
  
  I am a rock
  I am an island
  And the rock feels no pain
  And an island never cries
  
  Alex

Re:It's not just MMRPGs

[Lewisham]

POWERGAMERS

I have a hard time trying to convince myself that these people who can't stop playing EQ are powergamers. Seems to me, they don't enjoy it at all, they simply have no choice. I would class myself as a powergamer, and I've never played an MMPORPG in my life. I play offline, because I can't stand tainting a game's good name in my eyes when it suffers from lag. Recentely, it's been JKII that's been recieving my attention. And apart from the carpel tunnel, I can safely say I exhibited every single one of those addiction traits, at least on the first day. And I loved every minute. I can't stop gaming because I love to do it. That's what makes a powergamer, in my eyes.

And am I (relatively :) ) socially accepted? I like to go out and get as completely drunk as the next man. I think that's the entry requirements, isn't it? :)

Attitude Problem

[Slur]

It's an attitutde problem. Life is as exciting as we choose to make it, but our attitudes about life make it seem narrow and confining. If we were as open to trying things in life as we were in games I think a lot of us would be more fulfilled and engaged. Is it just that games give us the ability to take chances without the fear of consequences? Maybe. Nobody ever died for real playing a video game, no one was *really* humiliated for real because they did something stupid in EverQuest. Maybe it's more of an ego problem than an attitude problem....

I wish I could get addicted to excersise

[IIRCAFAIKIANAL]

I played Dark Age of Camelot for two months - If I had invested that time in working out, I would probably be able to do one-handed push-ups by now.

Maybe if I was addicted to pr0n I could do that too though...

Unplug

[blixel]

Kinda makes you want to unplug your computer and go outside for a while doesn't it...

Re:Someone start a support group! / Why it won't l

[mgblst]

I do find the term slightly herionware slightly offensive. Have you ever known someone to die from a game?

Not likely

[No Such Agency]

I'm sure the Bush administration secretly loves any genre of entertainment which they think desensitizes people to killing, and shortens their attention span.

The first, because they need a future generation of soldiers who don't care about the people who die when fire Hellfire missiles from a remotely piloted drone - "if it happens on the little screen it's just a game!". Ronald Reagan, I believe, stated that video games were good training for future fighter pilots :-)

The second, because they've seen how effective some carefuly controlled TV is at reducing the vast majority of people to semi-sentient sheep, unable to intelligently analyze their own government's actions.

Computer Programmers vs. Drug Dealers

[EABinGA]

Drug dealers: Refer to their clients as "users"
Software developers: Refer to their clients as "users"

DD: "The first one's free!"
SD: "Download a free trial version..."

DD: Have important South-East Asian connections (to help move the stuff).
SD: Have important South-East Asian connections (to help debug the code).

DD: Strange jargon (Stick, Rock, Dime Bag, E)
SD: Strange jargon (SCSI, RTFM, Java, DSL)

DD: Realize there is tons of cash in the 14- to 25-year-old market.
SD: Realize there is tons of cash in the 14- to 25-year-old market.

DD: Job is assisted by the industry's producing of newer, more potent mixes.
SD: Job is assisted by the industry's producing of newer, faster machines.

DD: Often seen in the company of pimps and hustlers.
SD: Often seen in the company of marketing people and venture capitalists.

DD: Their product causes unhealthy addictions.
SD: Doom, Quake, SimCity, Duke NukeEm 3D, 'Nuff said?

DD: Do your job well, and you can sleep with sexy movie stars who depend on you.
SD: Drats! Drats! Drats! Drats!

Re:Computer Programmers vs. Drug Dealers

[clare-ents]

Slander Slander Slander.

Many pimps and hustlers are nice people.

Pitiful.

[NeoSkandranon]

Once i was almost at a point where i would have considered myself addicted to Ultima Online...I was on the phone with my girlfriend at the time, and some loser PK'ed my guy...i was tangibly pissed off for a while, and it showed. then she said something, and it was like a slap in the face...made me realize "WTF...oh yeah, this is just a game"..
And it is just a game, of course. Until i see some data proving otherwise, its no more addicting than chocolate, pr0n, or even reading (And yes folks, i do know some people who read so much they are out of touch with reality as a result)
I'm not sure if I think this is a mental issue ("addictive personality" sort of thing) or if it is just maturity, the same thing as making a kid put down his Pokemon and do his homework.

To suggest that Blizzard et. al are taking advantage of people who get 'hooked' like this is ridiculous, when you consider the VAST majority of players, and thus the most subcriptions, are from people who play in moderation. Though truth be told, they do need players like this, as they make up a large part of the upper tier of the MMORPG world--perhaps the advancement model can be redone so as to not require such a time investment, but that would take away alot of the motivation for *Anyone* to be high-level, that is it wouldnt be special anymore.

Bottom line, this is not an addiction in the drug- sense of the word, but on the same level as eating, slashdotting, reading, masturbation, or over-exercise. Its not that these people can't stop, they dont want to badly enough to find a healthy alternative.

Re:Pitiful.

[Squeeze Truck]

Hmmm.

I wonder why so many people are so involved in so many addictive escapist activities.

Oh yeah, it's because real life nowdays tends to suck.

Bah...

[John Pfeiffer]

Addictive games? What utter cra--- Must kill porings.... *Goes back to Ragnarok Online*

Heroinware?

[jskarzin]

So, if there is postcardware; and mailware (yes, I have heard of it), can I assume that heroinware involves the sending of the drug to the author of the product in return for registration?

Re:Someone start a support group! / Why it won't l

[fatbastard10101]

Can someone else testify to the amount of time people spend on the mmorpgs?

My roommate plays daoc roughly 6-7 hrs/day on the weekdays and ~10 on each weekend day, for about 50 hrs/wk.

He's not going to even try to play the pvp server b/c he can't compete with the "hard-core" players and the "uber" chars.

Social aspect?

[Faust7]

Extensive chat features give such games a social aspect missing from offline activities,

I hear offline activities are supposed to have more of a social aspect... unless Becker is implying the obvious, in which case he gets points for tact. Kind of.

Re:Someone start a support group! / Why it won't l

[Rogerborg]

• I can no longer easily count the friends I have seen do serious damage to their "real" lives by playing these games. [...] there WILL be some sort of legislation to wean geeks away from these games.

Given our track record in this area, what's more likely is that there will be doomed attempts - driven by ratings grabbing media hysterics - to ban "these" games. Note that "these" games will always mean whatever people with addictive personalites become addicted to.

First they came for EverQuest, but that didn't worry me because I didn't play EverQuest... and so on.

What we will never do is to actually address the problem of people with addictive personalities. We'll carry on doing what we do now, which is to provide patchy and erratic treatment programs for a few select substances. We have programs for heroin uses, programs for alcohol users, programs for nicotene users. But how many people kick heroin (some through methodone), get chalked up as a success, then go on kill themselves with alcohol or the tar and toxic additives in cigarettes?

Newsflash: people with addictive personalities will become addicted to addicting substances or activities. What we need are clinics where you can walk in and say "I'm an addict", and you get helped to find a new addiction that's less prone to binge abuse of tainted substances, and that's less socially destructive.

The reason why we'll never have that (I believe) is that then billionaire scions of the US Royal Families might end up in the same program as the lowest scum from the streets that they exploit to pay for their cocaine habits. Think that one through. Substance based treatments ensure that you generally mix with Your Sort of Person. That sounds pretty cynical, but if you look at our track record of banning substances specifically to ostracise and criminalise certain ethnic and social groups, it really makes sense.

Re:You are WRONG about AMERICA!

[sjames]

If only these crazy terrorists would learn to leave our stuff alone,

Consider, most of those crazy terrorists were just powerless and bitter people until the CIA gave them American weapons and training in how to use them. In some cases we have been through a few cycles of this.

Our problems in Iran happened because we supported the Shah's regime. The people revolted and declared America the real enemy. So, we funded Saddam to fight Iran.

In Afghanistan, the CIA supported the people who would become the Taliban because they were fighting the USSR. Now, guess what?

The CIA supported Noriega because he was fighting the communists, gues what?

How many times will the millitary have to bail the CIA out before they learn?

Suicide?

[Llywelyn]

"A Wisconsin woman has blamed "EverQuest" in the suicide late last month of her 21-year-old son, who had a history of mental health problems and was an obsessive "EverQuest" player"

Okay, just because Psychos play a game does not mean that said game is a causal factor in making psychos.

How many years have we been saying this about D&D?

Re:Suicide?

[Squeeze Truck]

I guess the critics of D&D are not without a point.

At least role playing games are kind of social. (Demented and sad, but social.)

Its true

[skrew]

I've been addicted to marijuana, pr0n and evercrack. Marijuana was the most expensive, pr0n was the hardest to quit, and evercrack was the most debilitating to my life (the other 2 came VERY close though).

When you first start everquest, and any addiction it gives you a real rush, but diminishing returns start kicking in. The good thing with everquest is theres so many in game problems that after playing for 6 months for 10 hours a day you will get tired of it and hopefully quit cold turkey like I did. If not you can go high level and cash out your gear for big bucks.

Anyway I urge all of you fellow geeks to give up your pr0n and evercrack...you will feel better like I do now, trust me.

Re:Its true

[Squeeze Truck]

I'm trying to kick all of it. Problem is, I already quit TV cold turkey. So what would I do with my time? I'm one of those people who has to be engaged in something at all times.

I think I found my solution though. I'm moving to the country, into a house that needs a bit of work (no plumbing yet) The problems posed by this situation should be more than enough to pull me away from my CRT's.

I insisted on a house that needs a lot of upkeep for this reason. My wife thinks I'm nuts. (If she only understood...)

heroinware.com

[mikosullivan]

I just registered heroinware.com. Hmm, what should I do with it?

"OBSESSION," NOT "ADDICTION"!!!!

[Xenophon Fenderson,]

An addiction is the "compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly: persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful."

An obsession is "a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling; broadly: compelling motivation (e.g. an obsession with profits)."

Gaming to the detriment of one's grades, social life, or work is an obsession because there is no build of up tolerance, nor are there withdrawal symptoms. Please note the difference. Thank you.

Interviews Wanted

[lysurgon]

I'm conducting online interviews with gaming "addicts" as part of a theater production that will tour college campuses in the fall. Contact me via my website if you want to know more.

tetris is pharmogenic

[mr_burns]

I remember a wired story from way back talking about tetris being a pharmogenic drug. Apparently, the part of your brain that does that kind of stuff always gets the same amount of sugar, and the more you play tetris, the more efficient that chunk o' noggin becomes. The surplus in sugar due to increased efficiency gives it a bit of a kick...the cycle continues-more tetris, more efficiency, more kick.

So yes, some video games have been classified as being physically addictive. Explains all the tetris dreams I had when I was younger.

Re:tetris is pharmogenic

[Squeeze Truck]

Now that's interesting!

You sure about this ?

[Loranze-Da-Playa]

"Environments like 'EverQuest' can help a person if they're shy or have trouble forming social relationships," he said. "They have this environment where they can safely try new things out. They can experiment with being more vocal, or they can try out a leadership role, which may not be an opportunity they have in real life. Especially for teenagers, it lets them try out different roles and identities at a time when they may be really struggling with those kinds of issues." Are you sure this is one of the advantages ? .. I mean won't that like suck them further into the fantasy world and make them more anti social ?

Missing the point...

[ronfar]

I used to MUCK. I never spent as much time on it as the true fanatics (in other words, I never had any trouble disappearing from the MUCKs I was on if real life was more interesting or more important) but I understand what is called "addiction." It is simple peer pressure, no different than its offline equivalent. If you are on a MUCK and want to be well known and popular, you have to spend a lot of time there. Even if it isn't one where you have a character to build up, people will just forget who you are and ignore you if you don't spend much time on a MUCK.

The trouble with articles like this and many of the comments I read is that they use the word addiction and thus ignore the social dimension of stuff like Everquest or Asheron's Call. This is not "Pac Man Fever" we're talking about here, but most of the articles are just portraying it as such. In other words, Pac Man was "addictive" these other games are more advanced and therefore "more addictive." They don't take into account that these have almost no relationship to Pac Man and the like and are more like British Legends on Compuserve back in the 80's if you want to trace their lineage (and yes, I'm sure there were other MUDs before that that's just the first one I was ever on.)

By ignoring the peer pressure and social issues, people are getting no insights on these games.

The metaphor is all wrong, if people want a metaphor for online gaming, it is more like joining a gang or a fraternity than it is like getting hooked on crack.

Re:Missing the point...

[Squeeze Truck]

I spent nearly 6 hours a day on ISCA NIC (the babble forum) for over a year. When I finally became one of the most popular and well-known people, it wasn't nearly as cool as I thought it would be. I quit soon after.

You're 100% right though, the desire to shed that hated "newbie" status is very very strong.

No...

[Jagasian]

The Bush Administration has already launched a War On Nude Statue Boobies, and therefore their resources are already being strained. The War On Video Games must wait.

So much experience, so little wisdom

[Von Rex]

How unfortunate. If you were just another mouthy 18 year old dork, your glee at the thought of "kicking the shit" out of people with addictions might be understandable. But since you've been around so long, and learned so little in that time, you're pretty pathetic.

Intervention for addicts is sometimes required. Sadism is not.

Re:So much experience, so little wisdom

[fmaxwell]

your glee at the thought of "kicking the shit" out of people with addictions might be understandable.

Where did you get "glee" from that? I said that they needed someone to do that if they spent more than a few hours a week playing the game.

But since you've been around so long, and learned so little in that time, you're pretty pathetic.

Just what makes you so smug in your belief that I am wrong or that I have learned "so little"? And what expertise do you have in curing people of computer game "addition"? We are talking about people here who have lost their jobs, spouses, and friends to play computer games. Did you think that you were just going to sit down and reason with them? Did you envision them saying "You're right. I do play EverQuest too much. Let me uninstall that right now..."?

Intervention for addicts is sometimes required. Sadism is not.

Please stop being melodramatic. I didn't suggest that people beat them with coat hangers, burn them with torches, or otherwise torture them. I used a colloquialism. In fact, I went on to say "They need someone who will walk up to their computer, push them away from it, kill their imaginary character, give away all of the imaginary crap that they've amassed in the game, and unplug their Internet connection."

That hardly puts me in the same category with the Marquis de Sade and Jeff Dahmer.

P.S. I went to your web site and and I find it disappointing that someone with whom I share so much would choose to be so condescending and self-righteous at our first meeting.

Re:Moderators take heroin!

[/dev/trash]

Moderators take heroin!
Only they would modedrate this as -1,troll. Every one else would moderate it as 5, Insightful!

That makes no sense...as I or you or anyone that moderates that post would thus become a moderator.

A few definitions

[fewl]

Language used to describe addictive disorders can be misleading because the words describe other conditions. Commonly used, abuse is a pejorative term that implies voluntary unlawful conduct and does not necessarily connote a disease state, as such. Dependence is a term derived from pharmacology and describes a physiologic state of adaptation that occurs after chronic use of a drug. Tolerance refers to the state in which the physical or behavioral effects of a constant dose of a drug decrease over time, or when a greater amount of the substance is required to produce the same effect. Dependence and tolerance occur with many pharmacologic agents, besides addictive substances. The word addiction is commonly used to describe a repertoire of pathologic behaviors that serve to maintain drug use (e.g., lying, stealing, purchase of illegal drugs).

Although the above text relates more to abuse/dependence of pharmacologic agents (i.e. illicit drugs like heroin and cocaine) the definitions also apply to other things that can be abused and lead to addictive behaviors.

The actual amount of time spent doing a given activity is not neccessarily what determines if a person is addicted or not. It's related more to how that person's life is negatively affected. For example, let's compare two people: Person A works a regular 9-5 job and is responsible for providing financial support for his family. He plays 30 hours a week. Person B is a teenager on summer vacation who's staying home all day to play Everquest for 60 hours a week. He has fewer responsibilities than Person A. It's obvious that if Person A's playing interferes with his life to the point where he's neglecting his family and his job, he's an addict. Person B might not be considered an addict if his life isn't as dysfunctional. It's not a matter of how long you play, it's how your playing affects your life.

So smug with so little reason for it.

[fmaxwell]

your glee at the thought of "kicking the shit" out of people with addictions might be understandable.

Where did you get "glee" from that? I said that they needed someone to do that if they spent more than a few hours a week playing the game.

But since you've been around so long, and learned so little in that time, you're pretty pathetic.

And just what makes you so smug in your belief that I am wrong or that I have learned "so little"? What makes you the expert on interventions when it comes to computer game addiction? Do you think that quietly reasoning with people that have lost their jobs and abandoned their families to play computer games will "cure" them?

Intervention for addicts is sometimes required. Sadism is not.

Please stop being melodramatic. I didn't suggest that people beat them with coat hangers, burn them with torches, or otherwise torture them. I used a colloquialism. In fact, I went on to say They need someone who will walk up to their computer, push them away from it, kill their imaginary character, give away all of the imaginary crap that they've amassed in the game, and unplug their Internet connection.

That hardly puts me in the same category with the Marquis de Sade and Jeff Dahmer.

P.S. I went to your web site and I find it disappointing that someone with whom I share political views would introduce himself in the way that you did.

Sorry for the double-post.

[fmaxwell]

I got a timeout after the initial submission and tried to recreate it only to discover the original had been processed after all.

Re:You are WRONG about AMERICA!

[Adrodieu]

But while these people keep sticking their noses in where they don't belong

Well, I suppose our nose belongs in Israel. We supply them with weapons, we help to kill the Palestinians, we now are trying to mediate. I suppose OUR nose belongs in THEIR affairs but theirs doesn't belong in ours? What is it with so many Americans (not all of course) and being so hypocritical and ignorant? (Please don't take offense if you aren't of course). I was watching a newscast the other day, and they showed a vid-clip of some Palestinian soldiers... I bet you wouldn't guess that hey had US M-16s. BTW -- WTF is it with some Americans and not knowing what Communist means? Please learn about communism before using it as an insult.

Heroin

[Squeeze Truck]

I think the comparison to heroin is fair. Most people agree that heroin is far more psychologically addictive than it is physically addictive.

So we can add games to the long list of psychologically addictive activities, including TV, movies, porn, news, working too much, or cheating on your spouse.

Problem is, as urban cliff-dwellers, the possiblity of engaging in uplifting social and wholesome activities is severely severely limited by our environment.
What would we do without these addictive socially-destructive activities? Go for a walk in the woods with the family? Build a barn? Plant a garden? Anything remotely outdoor or social takes too much effort, money and planning to be at all workable, which is why people don't do them very often, and only when they're really sick of TV.

Re:HAHAHAHA

[Permission Denied]

The link to the definition of heroine was an especially subtle touch.

OK, yes, if you actually follow the link (I didn't). Would have been better without it.

G4 is Wil Wheaton's new gig

[serutan]

Although the article does not mention it, Wil Wheaton is one of the hosts on the new G4 all-games network. As he describes on his website, he is having a great time playing games, writing and talking about them. A job many of us would envy!

Re:You are WRONG about AMERICA!

[swe]

I think you'll find that the british are widely accredited to inventing the computer. It is true, however, that the guys from Xerox, in Palo Alto, *developed* what we know as the personal computer.

I does stand to reason that both of these things would have been invented anyway - it was only a matter of time.

Just need a replacement activity ....

[BShive]

I was heavily addicted to D2 for a while, and Counter-Strike and almost got hooked on DoC. Any game I buy I usually finish in the first week or two, ALL my spare time would go into solving it. Amazingly enough, I have not played any games at all for the past couple months since I bought a house - now I'm busy repairing stuff and taking care of the lawn, etc.. I'm sure I'll start playing games again, but when you have an alternative activity that's significant and you like to some degree you're much less likely to spend the time you finish work to the time you go to bed (+ some) totally devoted to a game.

Re:Someone start a support group! / Why it won't l

[supabeast!]

Not sure, but I know a guy who gave his daughter away to his mother-in-law when his wife quit her job to play EQ 24/7, and wasn't feeding/changing the baby while he was at work...

Re:female elf

[fr2ty]

I especially like this one:

"Angie said her live-in boyfriend spends at least 30 hours a week playing "EverQuest" as a female elf--a character choice she finds "weird and disturbing"-- at the expense of housework".

Any expert on gender roles amongst elves in here?

Re:modded funny

[fr2ty]

Parent has been modded funny. Could there be some truth in the joke?

/bin/bash

[fr2ty]

Bash can be very addictive too. Or think of reboots. Some people seem to be reboot addicts. Reboot macht frei or something.

Re:Someone start a support group! / Why it won't l

[Ziviyr]

I do find the term slightly herionware slightly offensive. Have you ever known someone to die from a game?

I have not known a single person who has died from herion, that I know of. Same goes for Everquest.

If that wasn't the case we could call it "Everhol" and its users Everholics.

See... when you said heroinware.....

[iceT]

I was thinking of games that had a female heroine... like Tomb Raider...

Hmmm... maybe I need to get a life AWAY from the openGL screen...

I've been here...

[billmaly]

The year was 1991, and I discovered MUDding via the University's VAX system. My MUD was Genesis, and if anyone was around back then, I was AXL.

We'd stay up til dawn playing (this was TEXT based), crash for a few, then try to do classes. If we could find an open lab on campus and not in the dorm basement, bonus...uninterrupted time.

My grades took a hit, my health took a hit, and all I did was drink and play Genesis. Thankfully, I got a job out of state for the summer with NO net access...that broke my addiction. I tried to go back, but the lure was never the same.

So, when I hear about something like Everquest or Ultima Online, I avoid it, since I KNOW I'd get sucked in, and I have even less time today then I did back then!

Playing a sport is no magic bullet

[Weasel Boy]

"There are some really great kids out there who are ignored and rejected because they don't play a sport."

Great kids are ignored and rejected anyhow. I was ignored and rejected, despite being a team captain who earned 9 varsity letters. My point is, forget high school and concentrate on what comes after.