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Customers Rate PC Vendors' Tech Support
VorfeedTech writes "News.com has a story on consumers' satisfaction with tech support. The article goes on to mention ConsumerReports' survey results comparing a few of the major PC vendors. Apple rated the best for tech support. I guess this is where they think different (TM)."
Getting Tech Support to rate the customers. Which company has the stupidest clients, and is there a relationship between quality of service and the intelligence of the people receiving it.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
When you are supporting something, you become a genre expert, and as such, have a domain of knowledge about the product that few outside of tech support could hope to attain.
Besides, when you've worked tech support, you only remember the bad calls, never the good ones.
RomSteady - I came, I saw, I tested. GamerTag: RomSteady / http://www.romsteady.net
I wonder if there is a connection there?
I've had mixed results with Gateway. When I got my PII 300 box way back when, we ordered it from Gateway. The components were pretty flakey: we had a hard drive, a modem, and a monitor all die. However, when we reported the problem, getting replacement components was not a hassle. I don't know how they are about that now, but at the time, they were quite nice. I haven't dealt with Apple's tech support, but their warranty package has kept me from buying their hardware. The base warranty is pretty skimpy, and the outrageously priced AppleCare plan is painfully restrictive about what it covers.
Learn to Play Go
Shoot HP, they have no f*&king clue on how their systems work, or even what goes into them. Last time I buy a friggin machine from them, and this was before the DCMA comments that I decided upon this. I asked for a windows 2000 solution to a problem, specifically stating the solution needed to be for windows2k, they responded with an XP solution.
First line tech support are mostly fools in call centres, so you'd expect those with the worst customer service to have the lowest opinion of their customers. Possibly the higher the training and morale level the less the customers are seen as, and treated like, idiots.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
In amny ways tech support is a waste of money for the computer companies. Most people aren't very intelligent consumers. By intelligent i mean people who would pikc up a copy of consumer reports and closely analyze the the details of a brand of computers such as how good their tech support is. Instead most people will buy things based on the specs, the looks, and the price. So, for the msot part Compaq's crappy tech support doesn't hurt them, because the person who needs tech support has already paid for the product and therefore any time they spend on them represents a loss in money.
Dell is the top manufacturer of PCs, no doubt largely because of its good technical support, however the contrast in the number of sales for Dell vs Compaq doesn't correlate well with the tech support satisfaction numbers.
A rabbit in the hand is worth 4 in the cage
Why do you think people buy German cars? It's partly the engineering and partly the aftersales service. (Okay, it's also partly a status thing too....) ;-)
I defected from Apple for quite a few years...but when I started doing more creative stuff again, I went back. Glad I did....they seem to really trying to give customers a solid product offering these days. However, they're also not trying to be all things to all people.
-psyco
Yes, you do. What other computer company creates actual 'brand loyalty' like Apple?
5 percent bought a computer that was completely inoperable within the first month; another 11 percent said they had problems in the first month but the computer was usable.
This seems ridiculously high to me. 5% of computers are unusable in the first month? No explanation is give of what constitutes "unusable". Does it mean the hard drive is physically crapped out or something like "the Internet is broken again"?
Furthermore, Apple is a terrible company to include in this kind of survey. A very large percentage of their customers are Mac enthusiasts. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just that comparing an Apple customer's perception of Apple support with a Dell customer's perception of Dell support is hardly an accurate picture - the Dell customer has no particular love for the company.
I work at a university and we have a huge computer contract with Dell, so pretty much every PC we have comes from them. We don't have much trouble with them, and when we do, the service has been excellent. Of course, we don't call the home user line, either, but if you're a corporate user I'd recommend them wholeheartedly.
Now, as for Gateway... when I was in high school, I worked for a company that had an outsourced tech support contract with Gateway. I was on hand when Windows 98 rolled out and all the poor Windows 95 users screwed things up when upgrading... I can honestly say that they hired anyone that could effectively grip a mouse. It was sad, but maybe things have changed.
nVidia, Matrox, Intel, AMD?
Depening on how you interpret 'like Apple'.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Duse, I work for dell, so I know first hand what us guys go through. Here are some of my favorite tales: A guy is mad because his region 4 DVD player will not play the Playboy DVDs he bought A guy tells me he will make my life hell and come after me because I would not give him a bios password for a portable. A lady blames me for having to reinstall her OS(She had every P2P program on earth, along with every spyware you can think of, plus a virus or 2) A guy asked me how to remove a picture from the desktop before his parents got home and how to remove that picture from the list of backgrounds. A lady that said she would always get porno pop ups. Only her and her husband use the system. Good times!
What, me Tweet?
I've had two Dell computers without problem. The PCs worked fine for the duration of their life with me(2-3 years) and all was good.
This past winter I was going to buy another one only I had a complete brain fart about the limit on my card since I had never used it to make a purchase over $100 online.
So they send me an e-mail back saying the bank denied my purchase but did not give them a reason and I was to call Dell back, yadda yadda. So after figuring out about the limit from my card company I call Dell back and explain. I called the number they told me to call in the e-mail but after waiting 20 minutes to talk to them they had to rout me through to someone else because it wasn't the right department. So I wait another 20 minutes and I explain the problem to the next person...oh wait, it's not their department so they route me some place else. So I wait another 20 minutes and I explain the problem to the next person...oh wait, it's not their department so they route me some place else. Only this time my connection is disconnected...
I was so irritated I just forgot about the entire thing. In 2 days they had to release my order (as said in the e-mail) and I never did get a Dell. I built my own computer (thank goodness).
This could have all been avoided had I not bought the computer on the last day of a significant sale (free shipping -$90 plus a free upgrade or two, so I was saving quite a bit). Because of that I couldn't just cancel the order and configure and buy again.
In any event, that entire ordeal soured me to Dell.
After a great experience building my own computer months later, I'd never go back unless perhaps I ever bought a laptop.
-- Scientist: You aren't going to leave me here, are you? Boagh! Thump...
Man, I can't think of a single good experience I've had with them. Once, I lost the driver cd that came with my scanner and they wanted me to pay $20 just for the drivers to use the scanner I'd already bought. I'm sorry, but I'm not a corporation and I'd really like it if they treated me like a person.
I have had somewhat positive experiences with Gateway and Dell, though I've never had to deal with their tech support, per se. Normally my problems with them have been relating to the fact that they never send me exactally what's on the invoice. Yea, I didn't want those $250 Boston Acoustic speakers anyways. Thanks for these $20 Altec Lansings and thanks for charging me $250 for them!
PC == Personal Computer.
Don't get confused about Windows, Intel, and IBM Compatibles.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Yes, support is going down the tubes, and companies are pay lipservice to quality of support, while trying to get people off the phone as quickly as possible, but I think they deserve some credit for having to support something they weren't even involved with (the OS).
It may sound accurate to those who are the ones getting the support, but it may not sound accurate to the ones giving the tech support.
How many times would those low scores be attributed to the consumer not having a clue, blowing up, and then thinking to him/her self that the entire tech support thing was evil?
Of course, there will be times where the reverse is true, when tech support will really be the ones who screw up, but being the tech support is their job.
They can actually get fired... the consumer can't get fired.
Amen, Apple most probably rate the best because the range of options in their machines is relatively small - but this has always been an Apple benefit, and it's the reason why services like Versiontracker work so well for the Mac - you can get your head around the size of the problem.
That was classic intercourse!
what about sony? they didnt make any of the lists. but they did make anouther report saying there notebook support was poor ( above gateway hp and compaq) anyone actually register with consumer reports to get updated info? please share.
I cannot *believe* that you spring $250 for the HP LaserJet 1000 and the damn thing doesn't have an on/off switch. I couldn't believe it when I first set it up, so I looked in the manual for help; after all, there *has* to be a way to turn off a printer, right? Oh, good, there's the on-line user's guide help file and an index page in the list of contents titled "Turning the power off". Excellent...click...click...Woo-hoo! From the manual:
You must unplug the printer to turn the power off.
They even have a cute little sketch showing you how to pull out the power cord from the back of the printer.
Cheap sods.
I don't think we slashdot readers can say much about the quality of customer service for a simple reason: the average slashdot reader probably has a larger understanding of computers than the average customer service employee.
Point in case: I mailed compaq a few weeks ago, after I installed SuSE 8.0, because my computer was freezing, and the caps and scroll lock lights were blinking when this happened. I hoped the people at compaq could tell me if this was a diagnostic code.
The support was pretty good; I got a response to my email in less than 15 minutes. I find that excellent. However, the poor guy at the support centre couldn't get a grip on what I was saying, because he consequently underestimated my knowledge of computers. His first response was to make me use the quick restore cd's, which would erase my hard disk and repartition it and reinstall the win98 se that originally came with the computer.
My point is that if you're a professional yourself, your either better than the support guy or the support guy is not going to take you serious enough. Either way you won't be helped properly. That's why slashdot readers can't really have a representative opinion on help desks; help desks are aimed at nitwits (as far as their computer use goes anyhow).
---
"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
A few years ago a Jaz disk would eject immediately after inserting it in the drive and I called Iomega. After going trough the automated stuff (push # for ...), I finally got a live person on the line.
After the usual (cables, drivers, etc....) stuff she exactly told me what to do to make it stay in there (easy: keep your hand the disk, until it snaps, it never had the problem after that occurence). She even was very patient with me because I had to walk to the computer each time to do something because the phone and computer were in different rooms. After being helped, I thanked her for her friendly and useful help, and she actually sounded astonished anyone would thank her for the help.
And now you say they don't remember the good calls? *snif* (Oh, and she had one kind of sexy voice with a slight Irish accent)
My Mom was proactive and bought a Mac a few months ago. She had problems with connecting to the Internet.
Since I know little about the Mac and how it accomplishes such things, and since I live about 2500 miles away from here, I said "Um, Sorry Mom, call Apple".
And so she did. And to my amazement, they solved her problem. Not only that, but she actually emailed her good experiences to me within a couple hours.
I have to admit this is the only good tech support experience I've heard from a PC company. Years ago, when I had a PC from another well known company, the tech support guys made me jump through 1000 hoops before they'd admit to a problem that could be fixed with a BIOS upgrade.
Apple didn't make my Mom do that!
why on Earth what I want to downgrade to a German marque when I have a Mazda?
That was classic intercourse!
Apple are the MOST PC of all computer companies, in my experience.
That was classic intercourse!
...you better get damn good tech support. I don't expect the same support from a comparable PC at half the cost.
Dirk
Is it an apple employee trained to do tech support or an external support employee trained to support apple? Good job anyway.
Easy answer: most x86 PC users don't feel threatened by other platforms and/or manufacturers and thusly don't feel the need to become corporate patriots.
I'm currently having driver problems with a 990cxi HP printer.
Following a long, detailed explanation of the problem I got a reply from their tech support team (the address was something like 990_support@hp.com ) which was a cut and pasted FAQ, with the message "Please reply to this email if you continue to have problems".
Needless to say if you try replying, the email gets bounced...
An attitude like that guarantees I'll never buy HP again.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. --Albert Einstein
In my experience, Dell is top notch in Tech support services. I find their supprt staff clueful (mostly, you still get the occasional person who reads off the screen) and not hesitant to send out a replacement part. Opposed to Gateway where its like pulling teeth trying to convince them that you need a replacement part, or Toshiba who will not replace a hard drive until it has 20% bad sectors (HDD was 1-2 years old and was rapidly failing, it had a 3 year service agreement).
Bottom Line: (IMHO) Dell rocks, Gateway Sucks and don't use Toshiba unless you like bending over.
Objects in the blog are closer then they ap
Users:
98% of all users believe technical support representatives can read their minds.
45% of all users do not listen.
Support:
75% of all technical support representatives don't want to help you for good reason.
90% of all technical support representatives with over 1 year of service are there for the money and don't care in the least.
No, none of those companies have anything like the brand that Apple have.
Microsoft has similar brand awareness, so do Coca Cola and Pepsi. But only the cola companies can claim brand loyalty as strong as Apple.
There's been several papers written on Apple's brand loyalty ("cult of Macintosh"). Go read one....it's a fascinating socio-techno phenomenon.
-psyco
And yes, it was not an obvious problem by a long shot, dealing with how an update handed obsolete names of some computers on the network. They were very competent troubleshooters and they finally solved the problem.
Since I make a point of complaining when service is bad, I thought it only fair to send an email to them praising the service. I received a kind, personal, reply from the tech support supervisor.
Apple's got my business for as long as they like.
On Monday afternoon I called them and they said they'd send me an overnight shipping package.
Tuesday, mid-day, an Airborne Express box was sitting on my porch. I packed the machine and brought it to the Airborne office for shipping.
Wednesday, I check the website and my machine arrived in the morning, has been fixed and is being shipped out in the afternoon.
Thursday, mid-day, an Airborne Express box is on my porch with my laptop with a new hard drive.
Time from problem discovery to problem resolution: 70 hours. Cost to me: $0. (Well, I did miss out on the $200 rebate offer when I bought it by one friggin' day ... darn you Apple--why won't you be nice and give it to me anyway? why? Oh ... sorry ... )
--- Jason Olshefsky
Karma: Poser (mostly affected by adding this line long after everyone else did)
A reason for this -- customer confidence. People have heard so much about expensive breakdowns that Hyundai has to put on the good warantie to let people know that "breakdowns will be on us".
I refused extended warantee on my Hondas. From experience I know that the chance of an expensive breakdown is far less than the cost of the warantee.
You seem to have misinterpreted the "computer company" part of the rhetoric. Since nVidia, Matrox, Intel, AMD are component manufacturers it is not a valid comparison. Try tossing out examples like Compaq, Gateway, Dell, HP, Packard Bell (BWUHAHAHAH!), etc., and you get a more valid comparison. In that case, I think the rhetoric works rather well.
My advice is to avoid buying from Dell UK unless you can get by with out _any_ technical support. They are really, really bad.
:o)
My Dad bought a laptop from them (at my recomendation to my eternal shame) and it came without the restore disk we requested. The disk appeared on the email order confirmation but not on the hardcopy invoice that arrived with the PC.
To cut a long story short, after 5 attempts to get the disk sent to us including a conversation with one of the "customer care" managers, we still have no disk. Being bounced around between about 50 people and then cut off is the plot of the average call. They are useless.
Its been so much hasle that we have given up.
On the otherhand, if you never need to speak to them, their laptops are excellent.
...I wouldn't expect the same performance from a comparable PC at half the cost, either.
Who else are you going to go to if you can't get your Mac working?
Seriously, it shouldn't be too hard for them to provide damn good support considering that they have complete control over the specifications of the hardware *and* the operating system.
You can't run into the sort of situation where Compaq blames Microsoft, Microsoft says it's Mitsumi's fault, and Mitsumi blames Compaq, and you're a ping pong ball going back and forth between everyone. With Apple, the buck stops in exactly one place (unless you're dealing with a 3rd party application).
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I know you're talking about the News.com article. But, just to clarify, the article is based on the Consumer Reports survey. Consumer Reports doesn't take advertising to avoid the kind of potential conflicts you're talking about.
a Constituant:
a Technical Support Representative:
a U.S. House Representative:
Just pay tech. support representatives $133,600 a year and consumers will tolerate the problems from the large corporation! Heck, if they are good enough, they won't even have to give them a product before long.
Hey-ho, PC is not limited to only IBM-PCs and their clones, as someone wisely pointed out. Look around ;-)
That article kinda sucked. Not many details or anything. It said Apple was on top, but then I felt like the rest of it was about Dell and what they are doing to make their support better. Crap if you ask me. I bet the poll taken from the Consumer Reports web site isn't all that accurate either. Hell, if the link to the poll were posted on /. then the poll would have definatly been bogus because we all would have gone their, voted up for who we liked best, then gone back and voted down for everyone else.
geek n performer who performs morbid or disgusting acts, as biting off the head of a live chicken
I swear, they can be complete idiots sometimes.
:)
We purchased a dozen or so LCD monitors from Dell, to go with some of our existing, but still new ( 1 year old ) Dell desktops. One of them had two horizontal lines running through the screen, at about 1/3 and 2/3 of the way down.
This line was present both when it was hooked up to the computer, and during the self test when powered on by itself.
The guy on the phone kept insisting that I swap out the video card, just to be sure. Obviously, if it happens when its not even connected to the system, its not a problem with the system.
Another time, fairly recently, I called up to get a replacement fan for the back of the cpu, as it had been whining incessantly (much like I'm doing now).
"How did you determine the problem is with the fan?"
"Uh, I used my ear."
I guess I really can't fault them -- it's apparent they're working off scripts and trouble shooting diagrams. Always get my replacement parts the next day though. Best thing about Dell
Everyone else in my family bought Dells, too. And they have all had to call customer support at least once for hardware failures. From what they told me, the only way a customer can get replacements is to blantantly ignore what the service tech tells em to do.
So the mother board is fried? Ok, so does Windows start?
.....
No, the motherboard is fried. The computer doesn't start.
Ok, is the computer plugged in?
Hmm, gee. I would never have thought of that, let me check YES it's plugged in.
Alright, when you start the computer, press Control-Delete to enter the BIOS menu
Ok, I might be able to do that if you send me a working motherboard.
Sir, i can't send you a motherboard until you press Control-Delete
Okay, whatever... I'm pressing Control-Delete now
continues for about 15 minutes or until tech gets tired of talking and just sends the part
All in all, I was very satisfied with Dell hardware and the fact I never had to call support. Considering that I would know as much or more than the person on the other line, I find tech support to be more of a comedic relief than anything else. Not only will you eventually get a new part, but you get to make fun of the guy on the phone and their crappy advice. I just might start calling tech support more often ...
I bought an iMac with a CRT this Summer, and I fully expected the analog video board to crap out -- which it did, less than a week before the complimentary 90 days of phone support ran out.
I called, got a case number and approval for a warranty repair [which I _know_ lasts a year, four times the free phone help], and then mailed in my AppleCare subscription card.
Why? Because three years worth of hardware support is worth it to me; while I used to do hardware support for these machines myself, I simply can't get the parts from Apple at all, much less have them installed & tested for free.
The service place called two days ago with an ETA for my repaired system, and Apple called last night to tell me that my free support was about to run out -- and would I be interested in buying some more?
You do the math.
;-)
I've never ever ever ever ever seen links in enthusiast message boards or mailing lists telling people to go to some website and vote for their favorite computer/band/whatever either, but I'm sure this particular poll is 100% accurate.
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
With the Apple move to OS X How do they still manage to keep the best tech support when unix based OS X would be new to support staff ? It has to do with how much a company spends on support. Codeman
projects @ http://spectechnologies.net
I had an odd failure on my iBook. Somehow I managed to snap off the male plug end of the battery charger INSIDE the female power connector of the iBook. The 'book was under warranty, but past the 90 days of free phone support.
This was obviously a hardware problem, but the tech was not able to even discuss it with me without a credit card number. He told me that if it was a hardware problem I would not be charged, but if it were a software problem I would.
I explained that there was no way that it could be a software problem since it was a physical plug not going into a physical hole because a physical piece broke off.
Long story short, I had to give my card number (was not charged), they sent me an Airborne box, which I filled with my iBook and gave back to the guy who was dropping it off. They had to wait for a part so it took a week to get it back, but all is well with it now.
I just thought it was funny that even Apple has some strange policies in their tech support department.
- Vincit qui patitur.
You know why tech support sucks?
Because people will not pay for it. Margins are too low for companies to give good tech support. Consumers are only looking at prices/features not how good their tech support is. Who here is going to pay an extra $100 to $200 a year just for good tech support? Not many. Businesses are different, but most consumers are not going to pay the money to get good tech support.
I don't know about these numbers, and what they really reflect. They reflect satisfaction, and hopefully just with the service and not the consumers frustration with computers in general, which could easily creep into the customer's feelings. It almost seems like it should be broken out into the customer's experience with computers, because that can determine how a "problem" is perceived. Both of these descriptions could or could not be describing the same problem:
1. My NIC is not working. The light doesn't light, and I am using DHCP to get an IP. I have another PC on my network configured the same way and it doesn't have any problem. I have even tried a known working cable.
2. The internet is broken.
Of course, one problem is easy to work with, the other one could be a nightmare. I'll bet Dell gets a lot of #2.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
For example, when I purchased my Dell system, I purchased it through my university (works if you buy through your business too), and as such, I was given the option of having 5yr premium tech support (5yr full, 24/7).. I can't remember what the exact service agreement stated, but at the time, Dell used a 3rd party company for its high-end support contracts named "Wang" (.. there's probably more to that name, but that's all i can remember right now).
Bottom line: If I had any problem whatsoever (or even *think* I was having a prob w/ the system), I'd call up the 800 number -- forwarding me to the Tier 3 tech support guy -- and say "look, component X has just failed, I want a replacement here in 24 hrs." Sure enough, the part would arrive; I'd send to defective part back to them in the same box -- no cost to me.
Lesson: Don't just roll over and save the extra $25 if you're concerned about support to begin with... Oh, and buying it through a large organization helps. ;)
SELECT * FROM USERS WHERE A_WINNER = "YUO";
Customers Unhappy with PC Support
And this is new... how?
Here's some more good headlines for CNet
Grass is coloured Green
Sky is blue
Microsoft earns another billion dollars
CNet runs out of good stories
(I have been on computers since 1987, customers have always been unhappy with customer support.)
~ kjrose
If you can get the onsite service warranty for free (not sure what their deals are now) I would certainly recommend it. The mouse on my laptop broke and they had somebody come out the next day and replace it. That being said, as soon as the warranty expired the 8, i, k, and , keys on my keyboard started working intermittently, so make of that what you will
we can rebuild this sig. we have the technology
Though my subject is consumer vs. business, it is in regards to the type of support line you get thrown into. I have a Gateway at home, and I bought this machine back in december of 98, right when the dual 450's mother boards started shipping. I had purchased this box but, it was considered a business line workstation. Plus, it came with 3 years warranty. I have had to call them up twice regarding my SCSI CDROM dying on me. (I don't think the plextor scsi cdrom i have likes the 80min cdrs...i'm digressing) Both times, that I have called, the support has always been excellent, and the staff was highly technical (and they were females, too...kudos!) None, the less, I always explained to them what was going on, and they have never given me much trouble. They have sent me two replacement drives, and this last one is still working. (Whew!)
I think perhaps that the article is decent, but it does not paint a clear picture. Perhaps, the various vendors of computers have separate groups of customer support, and i would not be surprised if the ones for the business side of things were much more technical than the consumer side. For example, Compaq has always made great business class machines and servers. But I wouldn't put my money in their consumer side products... that's just me though.
I used to be a warranty guy for compaq, hp, ibm and apple(I know, BFD, I realize it doesn't mean squat. In fact I'm scared to say that most of the time because I look like more of a fool than a computer guy! But we gotta start somewhere.). I rarely called apple, because most of the apples I worked on had the power button bug, in which the power button stuck down after turning it on, and then the computer would mysteriously shut down after 8 seconds on the imac. I did like 50 in one week, but my limited experience with apple was about the best I had had with any support provider at the time. Then I moved, got another job, and they had dells here. I disliked dells, but only because I had worked on very few and I was more unfamiliar than unimpressed. Shortly after I started, a HDD died on someone's dell machine. I remembered the hell with compaq about trying to convince them that the hdd was bad, and it was under warranty. I immediatley suggested to my boss we should just buy another hdd (~$80) and forget about it. He told me I should just call Dell. So I called them, waited two minutes on hold. Told the guy about the windows 2000 event logs saying bad block on hd0 and how scan disk takes 2 hours every boot. He had me push some f(#) key on boot, and it started some diagnostics (I've never believed in those built in diagnostics either) and about 60 seconds later it said hdd 0 and an error code. I read the code to the tech, he said ok we'll have a new hdd out to you soon. The next morning there a new hdd in my box. I will never go back to anything else! About the same experience with a fan, called dell, easy hold, could convince him it was bad, had a new one the next day. Apple also did the same, new parts within a day. I still have a 64mb stick of ram acting as a partial paper weight from a friends machine because gateway won't replace it without me bringing it into a country store, letting them format the hdd and put windows 98 back on it, then testing it. I firmly believe that hardware rarely goes bad, unlike most tech support would like you to beleive, and this is one of the only sticks of ram in my 5 years that I can confidently say is bad.
A good tech support person can handle bad users. Yes, sometimes you have to put them on hold for a while 'till they calm down some, but there's normally other tricks that you can use to make sure you don't make things worse.
...' it comes off as more personal, you tell the person that they're not the only one having this problem [ie, they're not an idiot], etc.
For instance, making comments about user's sexual encounters when you're working in the bible belt is just right out. [but well, I've seen it done].
NEVER talk down to the customer. I mean, even if it's someone that 500 people have called with before, it's a new problem TO THEM. Yes, you can give them the answer and hang up on them, but if you say 'I just had someone call in with this a few minutes ago-- Why don't you try
Finding people with the right personality for doing helpdesk is normally harder than finding someone who knows the technical information. And well, if you don't have good management, they don't pull people as they're getting burned out, and it makes things harder on everyone. [Getting a reputation as having bad service because of one dumbass pisses you off, and if the customer had last talked to that dumbass, they're more likely to be beligerant when calling you, which can also piss you off, overall in driving down the quality of service which you give, etc.]
Just because the customer doesn't know the answer doesn't mean they're an idiot. They could be a plumber, auto mechanic, doctor, or someone else with specialized knowledge that differed from yours. Personally, if I were going in to get my car fixed, I care about if they know my model of car, I couldn't care less if they knew how to plug in a computer, much less use one. I'm not going to hold it against my dental hygenist that she accidentally infected her system with a virus, but I would be annoyed if she didn't do her job.
That's not to say that there aren't rude people out there who will always get bad service. I had someone call me up when I worked at my university's helpdesk in 1994, and she wanted to know what her monitor's resolution was. [Mind you, we were software support for the computer labs, but our department was "Technical Assistance". After I tried to explain to her that she needed to talk to whomever sold her the computer, she said something to the equivalent of 'I called Technical Assistance, and this is a technical question, so I expect a f**king answer'. I passed her along to my manager, as well, it well, that's what managers are for.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
For example, my Tibook G4 400 has a broken front latch (the thing that holds the monitor down). Apple care would not cover it and apple wanted to charge me $1000 CDN to fix it.
I told them duct tape will do and called customer service. They of course offered to fix it for free - "but only this one time." Since it is a crappy part it will break again.
My question to apple, don't you thinkg a $5000 CDN laptop deserves a better warrenty??? If dell still shipped with Red Hat, that would be my next laptop.
I am going to hell and I am going to take all of you with me.
> What other computer company creates actual 'brand loyalty' like Apple?
Commodore, Atari?
Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
The issue is that they e-mailed me with options on how to fix the problem. The method that would have worked fine in my case was changing my payment method to online check.
However, with their sh(odd/itt)y customer support, I never even got to the point over the phone when that became an option. They merely shuffled me around.
Maybe it's just me, but one would think they'd be a little more careful with a customer in the situation I was in.
-- Scientist: You aren't going to leave me here, are you? Boagh! Thump...
There was a batch of Deskpros which had faulty video cards. They would work fine when new, but over time the BIOS would leak power until one day you switched on and, well, it didn't switch on. You got the beep sequence informing you, "Dude, you're getting no video!". Once that happened, you were out of luck and had to RMA the card. Eventually they came out with a "patch" -- if you can consider a small Windows program which bleeps the BIOS every 24 hours to refresh the video card information a legitimate patch -- but it was useless if your card had already died.
I had a client who'd bought a batch of 70 or so and was rolling them out in lots of five at a time. Hence, every few weeks, we'd have to call Compaq and RMA the video card. Well, naturally, we had to go through the diagnostics. Even though this was a well-known and documented issue, and even though the beep sequence said exactly what was happening, and even though you would tell Compaq you'd gone through the diagnostics, you had to do it while the Compaq tech was on the line.
So eventually I figured out how to do this.
Compaq tech: "Okay, switch out the video card with a known good card and check it boots up with that one, then replace the original and see if you still have the same problem."
Me: wait for 15 seconds doing nothing, then, "Okay, done that. The other card worked fine, but I still have the same problem with the original."
Compaq tech: "Gosh, that was quick."
Me: "Yes, well, I'm, err, used to doing this by now."
Compaq tech: "Okay. Well then...um, let's reset the motherboard BIOS by..."
Me: "...switching over Jumper A17, powering up for 20 seconds, then turning it off and switching back, yeah, I know. Hang on a minute."
Sit for another 30 seconds doing nothing.
"Okay, done that, same problem."
Compaq tech: "Wow, you're really quick on this stuff!"
Me: "Yeah, well, I play the piano, I have good dexterity."
Compaq tech: "Oh..."
Quite efficient, I think: if you just pretend to do what they're asking instead of actually doing it, it goes much more quickly. This is good, right? You cut down on the call time, save the client time and money, and don't tie up the Compaq tech line either, so they're getting better call times -- yay, everyone wins!
You just had to make sure you paused long enough to make it sound plausible. No good coming back after five seconds claiming to have replaced the video card, booted up into Windows, shut down, and switched in the original video card, as well as having done a complete NT installation on the side. But there was one tech who I spoke with quite often, and he soon figured out what was going on. Fortunately, he also figured out I had at least half a clue, and if he played along it'd cut down his call times.
They have to go through the charade, poor buggers; almost feel sorry for them sometimes.
People who expect to mail-order a home PC from one of the big vendors, then get decent tech support are like people who order a Big Mac, and expect to get an attractive, witty wait-person who comes to their table, remembers their name and can suggest a good merlot to go with that. It's just not going to happen.
Back in the day, I paid my tech support dues at an ISP at around the time that a lot of people were getting interested in the Internet. Most people had Win3.1 and 14.4 modems, and most of them knew approximately diddly about what an ISP was or what their monthly fees were paying for. ("Modem? What's that? Nobody told me I had to buy a whatever-you-call-it... I want my money back!"). We tried to help EVERYBODY who called, whether it was a simple password change, or the dreaded "I just installed Win95, now I can't get connected" call. If the call took 2 hrs, it took 2 hrs, and if we couldn't help them on the first call, we would call them back later with some kind of answer.
The result was that when this ISP I worked for lowered the monthly fee from $35 to $25/mo (for dial-up, yeah you read that right), our regular customers complained (!) because they were worried that we were going to turn into just another one of those cheap ISP's with crappy tech support. After all, they knew perfectly well that if they wanted bad service, they could use one of those 3.5" AOL floppies they got in the mail every week and pay less.
Point is, support is expensive. HP, Dell, et al, just can't sell you a $500 PC, then teach you how to use it for free. You ought to be able to get someone on the phone when you get your new Dell home and the HD won't spin up, but people call tech support indignantly resolute in their belief that their $500 has earned them the right to expect Dell to teach them how to create a desktop shortcut... which means that legitimate support needs just have to wait.
When people ask me whether they should get a Dell or a Compaq or whatever, I tell them that there are several reputable, LOCAL shops that can put together a PC for them and support it. It costs more, but as always, you get what you pay for.
Common sense isn't very common.
My company sells accounting software. It's assumed that those who buy our software have accounting knowledge. You'd be surprised how many people call me up to simply try to get me to do their job. I also wouldn't be surprised if people call up never having seen a computer before and now that they have one, they didn't bother to attend a basic computer skills class and expect support to train them
You'd also be surprised (maybe you wouldn't) at the number of times you ask a person to be logical and they aren't. Support reps may also be domain experts, but they have a tendency (not always I admit) to be more logical thinkers than the customers.
And finally, you'd be surprised at the number of times people call up to bitch because things don't go their way and they try to screw the company out of something because they want a free lunch or something.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Ah, yes, Consumer Reports. Quite the oracle of knowledge on computers. For example, in their latest issue they thought the iMac was "annoying" because it didn't come with a built-in floppy drive. What in the world would they do with a floppy drive, anyway? Oh, and Macs are too expensive, too. I like how they thought the "control buttons" on the Apple Studio Display were hard to use. I suppose that's true, especially since it doesn't have any--it's software controlled.
But in the same issue they think the Chevy Avalanche is a better "truck" then the base model Ford and Dodge pickups they tested it against. Of course, this time the nearly $8k price difference didn't seem to bother them much...
User: 5
...20 minutes later...
User: 3
User: #
User: 9
User: 9
User: 4
User: 0
Tech Support: All technicians are busy. We value your business. Please continue to wait.
Tech Support: Hello, how can I help you?
User: About a minute after booting up, my computer freezes with a blinking cursor in the corner.
Tech Support: Sir, can you check your power cord? Is it plugged into the wall?
User: Yes, as I said, when I turn it on it freezes up.
Tech Support: Is your computer turned on?
User: Yes.
Tech Support: Is your monitor plugged into both the wall and your computer?
User: Of course.
Tech Support: Is your monitor turned on?
User: Yes yes. That's not the problem.
Tech Support: I see. Do you have your support CD?
User: Yes.
Tech Support: Ok, insert your support CD and press the reset button.
User: Ok.
Tech Support: You should see our logo and several choices.
User: Alright there they are.
Tech Support: Press the one called Reformat and Reinstall Operating System.
User: Uhh...Won't that remove all of my stuff? I mean can't you help me figure the problem out?
Tech Support: Your problem can't be solved without reinitializing your system.
User: But it starts up ok and works for a while.
Tech Support: Sir, can you check your power cord? Is it plugged into the wall?
Agreed!
Whether it be a computer manufacturer or an ISP, Tech Support is a liability to the bottom line. If you have a shitty product or a large customer base, you need more techs on the phones, which means you pay less in salaries, which leads to your quality of service going down the tubes. You can't afford to keep the good techs around so they move off to better paying jobs and you're left with filling the holes with unqualified people.
I'm a supervisor in a tech call center and I can tell you that the pressure I get daily is to churn the calls out quickly and make some sales.
Keep those hold times and handle times low or else.
Sell or upsell this or that product.
Hell, these are techs, not salesmen. If they wanted to be in sales they would be working at Best Buy or CompUSA.
Consideration to quality comes way down on the list.
It's because Dell is in too much of a hurry. At Apple, the tech sup is more laid back.
The best thing I loved about Apple's Customer Service, is that when I called, the lady asked me my name and then asked for my phone number so she could call me back just in case we got disconnected. Do you believe that? I can't remember the number of times that I've been disconnected on Customer Service lines, but for once someone got it right.
If they disconnect you, then they should call you back.
Thanks Apple!
Apparently your experience is dated:l v2.jsp?C ONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=160105&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=21 135&bmUID=1028839979891
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detai
Dell makes a pretty reliable machine with Apple a very close 2nd.
Also your view of the PowerBooks was accurate, but again dated. The 520! My God, how long has it been since you've seen the new ones?
General rule with computers: 18 months and re-evaluate FROM SCRATCH. If the vendor isn't cutting it, cut them.
Hey, I wonder how the population at Slashdot would feel about being ruled out of an analogous survey about OSes due to the number of "enthusiasts" in the crowd. Those results can't be reliable, because Linux-friendly folks like their OS and want to evangelize for it. Better keep them out of the survey, as a control measure. Hey, look, Windows Me wins again! (We've already tossed those Apple zealots out of the data pool, naturally.)
I've dealt with Apple's help. They used to basically give you a free ride for years with their phone advice line, up until 1993 or so. You could call about defunct machines from years back. Nice perk. We had some shoddy problems with the first generation Power PC (5300?) powerbooks at an old job -- those machines were a piece of work, one of the worst releases of the Gil Amelio era -- but the support line was quite responsive. We got swapped parts for a laptop in two days: ship overnight to Apple in CA from MN, they replace and test it, ship back to us, all shipping and parts paid by Apple -- after the warranty had expired, because it was a recognized problem with the model.
I personally haven't called the line in a few years, and my impression is they've cut the default warranty to 90 days to push you to the "AppleCare" thing. But no, it shouldn't surprise you to see them up on these lists. They've been there for a long time, and it's not because Mac users are blind fools. That's wishful thinking on your part, not the Mac zealots'. You pay for it, but Apple does deliver in this way.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
http://www.bmug.org/news/articles/MSvsPF.html
I am a Computer Repair Tech. My co-workers and I have noticed that the quality of the hardware the major manufacturers are making, and the quality of their support have gone to hell. Their products are made to be thrown away, like American cars in the '70s. Their help desk people are just reading off of their screens, and don't even understand what they are reading. When we have to call "the new HP" for example, we have gotten "Hello, my name is operator." They read that off the screen, and can't even insert their name. Having to call the manufacturers to get authorization, or for any reason makes us wonder why we ever got into this racket.
How ya like dat?
> The consumer shouldn't be expected to have a clue. Or would you rather computers remained niche items owned only by the technological elite?
Unfair assessment. One can be a regular consumer and still have a small clue, and it's reasonable to expect the customer to understand a few basics. After all, should someone who owns a car not be expected to understand the terms, "ignition", "steering wheel" and "driver's side"? While I accept that someone calling for technical support shouldn't have to understand installing drivers to get a device to work, when someone gets on the phone and doesn't understand what I mean when I say "double click" or turns off the monitor when I tell them to turn off the base unit, I have a right to complain when they say that I suck at supporting them. They don't have to know the intimate details of IRQs and BIOS configuration, but it's perfectly reasonable to expect them to know how to use the computer and understand the terms that are defined on the Quick Start card.
Virg
Tech support operators are rewarded not for how well they solve a problem but for how quickly they clear the phone line (he with the most calls per hour wins). Beyond that, more and more PC companies practically hide their support phone number, instead trying to herd their customers into e-mailing over-generalized bots that pay almost as little attention to their customers as their phone support techies. And woe to the person who actually knows more than the average phone techie who has to call tech support.
Customer satisfaction doesn't do much for profits one way or the other. Maintaining support facilities costs money, but the most money can be saved by getting people in and out as quickly as possible (satisfaction be damned). In the continuing quest of investors for the quick buck, is anybody really surprised by the amount of disdain the average computer manufacturer shows their customers?
I've been hearing these kind of stories for years from other people who have had to contact Apple support. Sure they sometimes drop the ball, but it seems that it is rare that they do. Combine that with the fact that they are constantly on the cutting edge of technology in both software and hardware, it's not hard to see why they have such strong customer loyalty.
Sapere aude!
As my URL above may suggest, I don't have anything good to say about Alienware's technical support. Site's down right now, but should be up later this weekend. And maybe I'll put up some of the other people's stories that I've received through the site as well. They suck. And blow.
Complexity is Easy. Simplicity is Hard.
I bought a Dell, on a payment plan, and then returned it within 30 days because I convinced my employer that it would be good for me to have a Mac instead (I'm a designer) and therefore I decided to get a new Mac for home too instead of a PC. There was nothing I could do to keep them from sending me my monthly payment bill each month! Lots of phone calls and emails later and heck, they are probably still sending out a monthly bill to my old address 3 years later! It never showed a past due balance though which was curious. So...I don't know about their tech support, but their accounting folks could use a little help.
Mod the Guy up! You're completely right: it is nice to compliment people on their niceness/serviability/correctness on the phone...but it is *better* to let their superiors know that they have a good guy/gal in their ranks.
I'll most definately do that next time I have to call tech support and the service is good. Stupid I didn't think of it myself.
"What other computer company creates actual 'brand loyalty' like Apple?"
any of the culty ones...
Gateway used to be great. Way back, about 9-10 years ago, we bought a 386 from them, that, as their standard was at that point, came with lifetime, yes, till you die, tech support. As I recall, this didn't come at an extra cost, and it certainly wasn't something for which we had to pay each year.
But, even better than that, we got another from them, five or six years down the road. Unfortunatley this one didn't come with the same great service agreement. But, when we called up on account of a failed CDROM drive, becase of our older agreement, they extended the free service. They also shipped out the new drive very quickly. _And_ didn't even request the old one back. They were a bit more demanding when we had a problem with the monitor; they did ask for that back. However, the replacement was a nice change, they sort of 'upgraded' us from a 15" to a 17".
Maybe Gateway is starting to fall behind, but it wasn't always so.
And on that note about having parts fail, when I was in a high school which required laptops [and as provided by them] their last choice while I was there was this Acer notebook. My understanding was that the computer was a nice one, better than most previous models they'd chosen, but the LCD screens had a horrible tendency to crack. I worked with the school's IT/Support dept, and we saw more of "my screen has cracks in it" than anything else. Sad thing was, it's not hard to prevent, or be cautious, but point is, hardware problems aren't always the manufacturer's fault.
Tevye
We're on a mission from God.
My vote for worst customer support is Panasonic:
;) I go to Panasonic's site, and it's listed on their support page, which totally shocks me since this is after the incidents with the CD-RW and Camcorder, and they even have a link and a filename. The link takes me to an FTP site (not to the file I needed, as it claimed it would) that doesn't have the driver I need. I try the one printer driver that is there, but obviously it doesn't work. After 2 hours on the phone alternating between being on hold and saying "I already tried that, it didn't work" to people with the IQ of mashed yams, I finally get transfered to a guy who's able to tell me where to find the drivers: on Panasonics Canadian site!
My Panasonic Mini-DV camcorder apparently doesn't exist, and it's only 1.5 years old.
The Panasonic CD-RW I got for my mother-in-laws friend wasn't supported by the Adaptec EasyCD it came bundled with (and it also, apparently, doesn't exist).
My (ex)bosses' printer was the kicker, though. We upgraded all the computers to Win2k and needed drivers for it. It was a dot-matrix, so I didn't have high hopes, but they needed it to print payroll, so obviously it was a high priority job
In short, no more Panasonic for me, ever again.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Viva Amiga! Which I still use every day.
ac
This should be the same Wang - Wang was a word processor (as in the physical word processors with a little monochrome monitor attached to a typewritter) manufactorer and made some microcomputers, I think. But they missed out on the PC "revolution" and became a bit player. They eventually went bankrupt in the early 1990s, but apparently survived to as later as 1998.
Wang seems to have been bought out/changed it's name to Getronics, but their webpage still exists.
As far as I know, Wang is the name of the founder of the company - I don't remember which Asian nation he was from, but it's an Asian name. But yeah, Wang does seem like a weird name to use for a US company... :)
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
I can tell you why DELL's numbers are slipping. I worked in tech support there for almost a year. Their numbers are slipping because they treat their employees like office furniture. They change your schedule every month to god know what, so you never work constant hours. They force you to take overtime, often to skip your lunch. They base everything on metrics, and even if you make 150% of your goal you still get told to do better. You cant even get up to piss without the queue nazis hunting you down to tell you to get back on the phone. You have no insurance and no benefits. They fire people for no reason whatsoever so you have no job security. No one ever gets moved up or gets a raise. They tell you to do everything you can to make sure the customer doesnt get parts and doesnt call back even if the customers machine is a piece of shit. They basically treat their employees like animals and as a result they have an extremely high burn out rate. The only reason it has ever been good is because lots of sys admins and engineers are out of work in Austin and have to take shit jobs to survive. Now all they have is techie wannabees. It's kind of hard to have good service when your company is staffed by people who have no past experience and who only last three months before quitting or getting fired for not being a fucking call taking machine. On top of that take low pay and even lower moral and you get crap service. But take heart, they are planning to outsource most of it to India so you will soon be getting very technical and experienced people who are completely arrogant and rude to take your calls!!!
My older brother recently bought himself a compter. A pretty nice one too. 2.2 GigHz 60, Gig HD, you know, nice computer. Well, something was wrong with it. He thought it was a problem with one of the applications that was preinstalled on his computer. The computer kept crashing everytime he tried to use Diablo or something (something that played well on his old Pentium 1) So he called up tech support for some help on his brand new computer.
He explained what was wrong, or rather what the computer was not doing. In essence, they told him to piss off and call the software vendors, before he could even finish. They wouldn't even bother helping him. They said that it wasn't their problem. In turn, he told them that it was there problem because he'd just return their computer and then it would be their problem anyway. So, they called upper management and came back with a go-fuck-yourself reply.
My brother took the computer back and exchanged it for another, albeit non-HP. This is a sweet machine, now I'll need to get a better computer just to show him up. It turns out that it was a hardware problem, the video card was fubar. And it became HP's problem anyway. (After talking to my brother for a few minutes about what was happening, I could tell that the video card was all fubar, but this all happened while I was on vacation.)
Now my brother tells the lovely tech support story from HP to all his friends, family, strangers, etc. He'll never buy an HP product ever again.
In my opinion, HP has lost a few customers in this display of their competence in dealing with people. My dad for instance is a very big consumer, now he'll never purchase a product from HP. And neither will I.
My brother is not a techie, he's one of your average joe's. Knows about two things about computers: Jack Shit. If your tech support is going to treat people like this, you'll lose your business. Especially here in America. This isn't Russia where you have only one vendor, and you can treat everyone like shit. A business can afford to spend a few minutes walking through some questions with people to find out what the problem is. That's how you get repeat business and more customers.
Apple itself has always excelled at tech support -- from their toll free end-user phone support, to their "Service Source" materials for hardware repair tech's, to fostering User Groups that turned into self help communities, to their early adoption of web based support, it's always been the best of it's class, except for it glaring deficits in it support for the corporate IT world.
.....
I did phone based in-bound tech support for in the bad old days (back when Apple seemed to be releasing a new model every month & when support through 1-800-SOS-APPLE was considered free for the life of any Apple product). I was working for a undisclosed company that was 1 of 3 outsource venders in the US that Apple had doing most of the phone based support for them. We had good training, support, escalation procedures, and resources provide both by Apple and by the undisclosed company (how long are non-disclosure agreements good for anyway?).
We were providing great service at our call centers (from the original 68000 Mac's to PPC 604 machines), even during a particularly difficult period where Apple officially denied a hardware defect on some of it's Performa models. Unfortunately, change happens.
Around the time Steve Job's came back to Apple, Apple decided to move away from the free-for-life phone support model. Most unfortunate for my company, we were the first vender who's contract with Apple come up for renewal, so we were axed.
You'd think that I might have been bitter, since I loved what I was doing at the time, but even though I had to move on, it was the right thing to do. One reason Apple's computers had cost so much is that they were providing "Insanely Great" service & support that just cost them too much (example: they were still giving away free phone support for Apple IIe's as late as the end of 1996!) !! [At the time they were also paying way too much for the wrong kind of marketing and had confused the market with too many very similar models, but that's beside the point]
The funny thing is that even in reducing their phone support services in order to reduce costs, they seem to have managed this transition very well, since you didn't really see any trends in the marketplace where this seem to make a difference. In fact some of the best things that had happened in recent memory for Apple took place after this back room support reorganization happened. How many companies do you know of that can really manage to tighten up their service & support costs without hurting their service offerings or damaging their brand/reputation, and do it right before coming out with some of the most innovative work products that they had produced in years?
Now, if Apple can just manage to use the Xserve line to break into the corporate world
Apple rated the best for tech support. I guess this is where they think different (TM).
;-)
No, they think different on price too.
Well your argument flies out the Window(tm).
First people who buy Apples DO add hardware that didn't come from Apple. Second people who buy Apples DO add software that didn't come from Apple. Thind Apple does have an *extensive* product line to support, past and present. When one looks at all the permutations of just the above, the problem space is much bigger than you make it out to be[1].
And to finalize, the PC makers DON'T have to support billions of this and that, and 5+ operating systems. They ONLY have to support the much smaller space of what they sold you.
[1] The same agrument below can apply to the Apple situation, but that's not what you were implying.
"This isn't Russia where you have only one vendor, and you can treat everyone like shit. "
Yes we do. It's called Microsoft. You may have heard of it?
In some contries (Jamaica) Dell is the ONLY game around. I.e. You can call the 1-800 number and get a technician at your door with a replacment part.
This is the part of service that is important to users like me who can figure out on our own if Windows is broken or the CPU is overheating.
Yes. With a Compaqu or any other name brand PC. When it breaks you are going to be down for a month or more.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
" A good tech support person can handle bad users."
A good tech rep that can handle problem users can get a job that pays far better and entails less stress. And they do. What's left are the ones that can't. If you are lucky and treat them well you can hang on to good techs with poor people skills and poor techs with good people skills. You can get teh job done that way - but it ain't easy.
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
Actually, the hardware warranty is for a year. It's the don't-ask-for-a-credit-card-number tech support that's only 3 months. (And if it is a hardware problem after all, you're not charged. I can personally attest to that.)
Agreed. I seem to remember calling either Apple tech support or sales at one point and after he was done helping, I just chatted with him for a while about some upcoming product (OS X, I think.)
Maybe that's the whole point of the Consumer Reports survey???
To paraphrase our favorite NY acting student-turned-Dell salesman, "Dude... You're gettin' a clue!"
People who read Consumer Reports are INTERESTED in the question... "How good is their tech support." They're also probably willing to PAY for it.
+++OK ATH
I had this exact same experience with my IBM laptop, except I didn't even have to make the trip to AirBorne. They picked up at my dorm, which is good since I didn't have a car then.