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P2P Meets Push
meonkeys writes "What if you could securely subscribe to a trusted P2P file broadcaster? Check out konspire! An interesting concept; implemented in C++ and controllable via a cool Web interface ala Mutella."
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Pushing files, huh? It's as bad as pushing drugs. Into jail, my little hacker-bee.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Now I don't have to manually download crappy rips of my favorite songs, I can have them forced upon me! :-)
Actually, this looks like a cool idea. The fact that it's a sourceforge project only makes it better!
Five Dolla Moddy-Moddy?
This might just work. My intravenous connection to alt.b.e.p.b has had to be shut down due to the weight of spam.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
It's called "Automatic Windows Update". And boy it hasn't caused any problems at all, right guys?
...when it was called IRC. Seriously, this sounds like a traditional IRC channel with XDCC bots. Decentralized (many servers on the same net comprising a single channel) and varied (you can have many varied channels). I mean, it sounds like a cool idea, and a neat proof-of-concept, but is it really needed or useful?
I think that web based interfaces are severly underrated in their potential because of the reason mentioned. I love the new thinking being employed throughout this project.
Cheap $3 hosting plans
Adcritic.com is back, but as a sucky subscription service, if they left the site like it was i would have paid but i just dont like the looks of it now.
We have seen that living things are too improbable and too beautifully "designed" to have come into existence by chance.
now I don't have to search for porn, porn comes to me.
Je t'aime Stéphanie
I am not interested in "pushed" multimedia, but imagine having your Gentoo packages already pre-fetched for you, whenever there's an update? Emerge and it just starts compiling w/out the download step. Mmmm...
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Am I to understand you start it up, go to bed, and wakeup to having a buncha unknown files on your computer? And this is a good thing?
Great, so now the RIAA doesn't need to hunt people down, they can just subscribe for listings of all the evil pirates.
Down with Saudi Arabia!!!
The problem was never the software used.
The problem was the file-sharing concept. It was the concept that RIAA and the rest of the legal industry hated. The software can be written in C, C++, C#, java, assembly... it makes no difference in the battle.
I've often wished that the "genre" search in the various filesharing apps would work better (or in some cases, exist). Personally, I've had a lot better luck finding music I like by searching by genre on mp3.com etc than downloading mainstream crap from Kazaa, etc.
This sounds like a great tool to cut down on mouseclicks and leave me with a nice shiney playlist to listen to in the morning.
It looks like they're providing the interface but are trying to avoid any legal repercussions by placing all legal responsibility for those items transmitted on the owner of the "channel".
Step 6 of their P2P path to success is: build trust for a channel owner's tastes over time (owners are completely responsible for what goes out on their channels)
I wonder how effective this will be when the RIAA and the other big dogs come after them.
I'm gonna try it now!
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
A push system with channels you subscribe to.
Lets call it kUsenet!
Now the RIAA can just push files to other peers and start suing for billions!
But for server apps, I think it's the wrong choice. Let's face it, languages with security features are more suitable for servers. Bittorrent is in python. mldonkey is in objective-caml. And I'm sure there's something in java out there somewhere. No, I haven't seen any really professonal looking GUIs written in any of these languages, but I'd rather have the added security any day when it comes to promiscuous networking.
Especially since in this network, whoever distributes a given file also requested it (at least that's what I am reading out of the documentation), in contrast to other networks, eg. freenet where the fact that you have data on your HD and distribute it to other people does not imply that you requested that data to be there yourself.
(Note: I still think this is a pretty neat concept, though!)
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
This means that we firewalled users can give you pr0n. Now you will have more sources for pr0n. This is good, no?
I'd love to share my stuff, but port forwarding is annoying, and I've only got one IP. This would allow me to share back.
What I don't understand is... why doesn't gnutella support this sort of thing? How come I can't check with my ultrapeer to see if someone wants one of my songs? Would that require maintaining a heavier connection to my ultrapeer?
I've got all this pr0n, and all this bandwidth... but no IPs to share it with.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
a combination of this and torrent.
.torrent makes use of a full upstream of a user to send data. this program does that too, but it does not distribute that users upload-ability accross any more than the one user.
.torrent mesh features would be really nice.
this system seems limited by linear pushing 1:1 host:client ratio, and this increases the output logarithmically.
the problem they are going to run into is that 90% of users on the internet (atleast) have 256 kbps or lower broadband caps, and therefore the network will not efficiently use bandwidth if its 1:1 sends.
so anyway, this with
peercast is a gnutella-based network that pushes radio broadcasts to end users. konspire is similar except a broadcast pushes files which are kept on your machine, whereas peercast streams the file to your speakers. both are cool ideas and should only become more effective as the technology evolves.
smd4985
But from a "trusted" channel. A little better than MS's version of trusted (trust it or it won't work), and you can always unsubscribe from a channel that starts broadcasting content you don't like.
I was thinking in terms of sharing common music interests (great for indie stuff), but I suppose you could start little clans for those who have certain fetishes in pr0n or gamez as well.
I think the authors may be a little delusional, what with every other sentence being "This is a revolution! We're awesome!" However, this looks like it could be fun. Maybe what push technology needed all along was to be distributed and controlled by the users.
P2P you can trust? you CANT do that with software.
the only P2P i trust is the gnutella group I belong to that you are required to join by being invited. and yes we boot people on a regualr basis for simple things like bitrates below 196 document files that are infected, etc...
THAT is the only way to have atrusted P2P... I dont care what they try via software, all it takes is 1 bad apple to poison the whole orchard.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
without konspire: 8 hours d/ling, compiling software
with konspire: 7h55m compiling software
Wohoo!
mov p2p,files
push p2p
pop lawsuits
This sounds really cool . I my self write quite a few programs (all small time) if I could offload some of the bandwith requirements for updates amoung my users I could "push" an update every time that it is need rather than having them poll a central server and grab the file or bit torren (as it is currently) . It still remains to see just how stable this network is going to be but if it works it sounds fairly cool . The fact that it allready has signing built in for the chanel controller this saves me a bit of time . All in all good job! Of course there will be illegetimate uses (the 24/7 hard core porn channell comes to mind) but this looks like that it could be used by small companies (like me) to keep the updates flowing in a decentralized fashion to our customers/user without sucking up all our bandwith.
But I refuse to download anything from a website with a black background.
...And you wake up the next morning with kiddie porn on your computer and handcuffs on your wrists (unintentionally that is)! Entrap first and ask questions later.
-=- Many seek good nights and lose good days.
this is a reason why they didnt use java? i mean, i understand how things like aol that hold your hand the whole way can piss you off, but i dont see how automatic gc makes it harder to manage memory...
an honest statement/question, no trolling
i sell illegal drugs
From what I read, only the prebroadcasts are digitally signed. What is to stop someone from receiving the broadcast file and replacing it with something malicious. This malicious file would then be forwarded on to all the nodes that replied to its prebroadcast message.
I'd like to see more details about what a "prebroadcast" consists of. I would think there would be at least a checksum or something to allow receiving nodes to verfiy the file they received was actually the one that was sent by the original broadcaster.
You're not allowed to rent here anymore!
Pure and simple. P2P software is 99% used for distribution of illegal software / music. For a community that is so hell-bent on trying to do the right thing, how can the community support software that is written to blatantly steal material?
Think about it. Regardless of if you think music should be free, artists paid more money, RIAA is the devil, etc. - downloading mp3/ogg/whatever encoded songs that you don't own is illegal.
So if this content is just sorta being pushed to us without us knowing, might any future end-user litigation be able to follow suit of this guy?
... If you didn't tell your computer to download that MP3, how can you be found liable?
After all
You know, I'm freaking sick of "cool web interfaces." They're inefficient and by nature inhibitive when it comes to performing advanced operations. Like creating many-to-many relationships or giving instanteous, absolute feedback to changes. HTML just doesn't have the controls necessary to do so without creating tons of overhead -- or necessitating the use of javascript. Which even at this late date is a real bear.
Sure, they're nice for some things, and multiplatform, but they're not for everything. I like the way Freenet does things...there's a very basic web interface for accessing the gateway, but all the real setup and control is done with a Java client. Best of both worlds, and no need for ugly OSS GUI toolkits (flame on!).
Hey freaks: now you're ju
And how exactly is this better than a binary newsgroup harvester?
Oh great, this is what we need, a way for us to receive video, audio, and applications directly, without our requesting them.
Sound familiar?
This just sounds like a way to receive more interactive spam and viruses (virii?). Sure, they claim you can "feel certain that the files are legit, thanks to konspire2b's heavy-duty, automatic, digital signatures", but seriously though, how long before we get anonymity, spoofing, and faking?
I'm not saying the whole thing can't be done, I'm just saying that it got to be a hell of alot better than anything that exists today to prevent any kind of hacking (DeCSS anyone?).
Robert Bindler
A Computer Science student's views on technology.
The parent post should read "...moderation were..."
let me help push in your stool...
...and I'm bored. Now I've got a web page that tells me that I haven't received anything yet. Exciting!
I wish someone would make something like AudioGalaxy again. That was sweet. I could search for files that I wanted while I was at work and when I got home, they'd be there on my computer. It was simple, and it worked well. Is anyone working on a project like that?
So you call it konspire, eh? And this helps the P2P keiretsu allay the fears of the music industry that it's not all about ripping them off how, exactly?
You P2P guys really crack me up.
-Shane
I love teh int4rw3b!!!!!111one1
Another failure posts on /.
However, if I'm working on some project and want to share a bunch of stuff to the other working on the project (without versionning), then the idea is good. I can put a file on my channel and it will be automatically replicated to the other channel subscribers.
From what i read from their site, some feature are lacking:
I'm watching the "caught prebroadcasts" page on the web interface, and there's a channel called "TEST Kubrik movies" that's sending a new Kubrick movie out every, oh, 3 seconds. How is this possible? Did I misunderstand how the system works?
Anyone have screenshots of this "cool Web interface"?
I looked, but couldn't find any.
This is a retrograde step.
It turns p2p file downloading into a "tv-like" experience where you have to be online at the right time to get the file.
Sure, you could probably script it so you get the files, but that makes it like tivo where you can watch programmes when you want but you have to remember to set it up so it records it in the first place.
We have evolved beyond that. Now, with p2p you can search for and download whatever you want, when you want. OK, so someone still has to be sharing it, which is less likely with older stuff, but there are starting to be Farenheit-451-like sharers out there (myself included) who are keeping one thing (e.g. a favourite anime series) alive by always sharing it.
Also, there is a significant barrier to adoption of a new p2p-like app. You have your p2p working fine, and downloading well, then you are expected to start using a new one. You don't know how it works yet, let alone how to optimize it or where to get what you want; you know that everyone else faces the same hurdles so there won't be much content for a while, if at all.
This wouldn't be so bad if you could try out a new p2p app while using an old one, but you really need to dedicate all your bandwidth to a program to make the most of it.
At the moment emule is where it's at (at least for me), and I won't stop using it unless everyone else does and the sources dry up.
graspee
The concept of konspire is really cool. It provides a good method of anonymity of the original sender. Pesonally I'd like to see it use the bittorrent method of file delivery because you have the potential of only having to send the whole file once, plus if konspire decides to send the file to a 28.8k modem user first, everybody else will have to wait until that user gets the file before they can receive it, where as bittorrent's method can send to many people simultaneously and still use less bandwidth. The problem with bittorrent is that you know who sent the original files, because you got the .torrent from them, so a combination of both technologies would rule!
I'm not a real doctor, but I recommend beer.
IANAL
Queston for any reader who is: might this not excuse the computer owner from legal culpability, if it turns out he has recieved mp3s the RIAA don't like? He could just say "Hey, I subbed to the channel, but I don't control what goes out over it".
ain't that what gamespot already does with kontiki?
you can subscribe to files that will be sent on a weekly basis. and as far as i know kontiki is a p2p application?
Looks like the internet. Why not just use IPv6 tunnels? This would be a good way to get unsuspecting file thieves to help us propagate the 6bone.
sounds like an even more illegal way to get MP3s, since now they're making money off it instead of simply sharing.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
The fact that it's a sourceforge project only makes it better!
Of course, the fact that it's a sourceforge project, may mean it remains at "Stage 1, Planning" for years and years.
When does the technology get pervasive enough to start warranting more useful apps built on top of P2P? Like a way to post resumes, jobs, RFPs, etc.. and be able to query/respond... without needing the 400 job boards out there. Or code snippets, or news services that can survive massive overloads ala 9/11?
meh
I just installed and tested it, and it's pretty cool. It's p2p filesharing for lazy asses. It won't be good for finding those obscure files, as I see no search functionality. Personally, I don't usually go looking for something in particular, I just want to find something cool to entertain me for awhile, which is why I really like torrense.cx. This is similar to that, minus interactivity. All you have to do is subscribe to a channel and you'll automatically get whatever they put out. This is a great distribution method for IRC channels that serve out a specific type of media (ie #futurama, #adultswim, #XXXwhatever). After a new ripping is finished, simply broadcast it and everyone else in the channel will get it. I can't see it being so great for Mp3's because everyone's tastes are so different, even within a single genre. Overall I'll give it a 9 out of a possible 10.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
...because he's right. WU has the 3 options he mentioned.
So to any given node it is unknown whether the node it's receiving a transmission is the original distributor. But still, the node it is receiving from is a distributor - that's just as illegal, at least in the context of copyright protected works. Especially since in this network, whoever distributes a given file also requested it (at least that's what I am reading out of the documentation), in contrast to other networks, eg. freenet where the fact that you have data on your HD and distribute it to other people does not imply that you requested that data to be there yourself.
...but as a direct consequence of knowing what is in your share, or at least the ability to know that (that is, only the things you're subscribing to). Open relays don't get sued for fraud, 0 day hacked warez servers don't get sued for piracy (arr!) and your DDoS host doesn't get sued for launching DoS attacks because they did not know what was being routed through them.
Freenet is basicly trying to make everyone (except the inserter and the requester, which are difficult to find) be a common carrier (ISPs do caching, so the fact that Freenet caches stuff does not prevent this). Whether that argument will stand up in court is questionable, but this system certainly won't hold up to this defense.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
what, you are against CAPITALISM??? You would dare "block business" in some cyber PROTEST?? You DARE to be exposed to anything but CLEARCHANNEL, the one true official approved source for audio entertainment and your security level approved news??????
TERRORIST!
You WILL be assimilated! Now go buy something, from one of our advertisers! That is your ONLY redemption at this point, and be aware, you just racked up several points in the list, you are now a "person of interest" in the database!
---the proceeding is a public service message brought to you by the Ministry of Love.
it's called "porn in your inbox"
If your ISP doesn't want to provide them (for whatever reason), you go without, or pay extra hundred$ per year.
Actually, this is a great way for a band to make some serious coin. Charge 19.99/month for access to this system during live tour seasons. Soundboard recordings, encoded into a lossless format, sent automatically to your computer starting within a few hours. The total bandwidth would be rather large, but within a P2P community it could be handled.
Maybe as well offer an MP3 option to those who would want it (like me, I'm just going to rip it to MP3 anyway) to save bandwidth.
For SPAM:
With e-mail, the sender can hide their identity. This allows for spamers to get your e-mail once and then come at you. With this approach, if spam is coming, then de-register. As to viruses:
They are not a problem of the protocol (smtp), but the programs (esentially outlook, but there have been others) that allow for untrusted code to be easily executed and/or so many cracks. Now, if you use this mechanism for accepting code and you get a virus, well, that is your fault.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I can think of lots of uses for this system (ie. other than MP3 and porn). The gaming community in particular could really benefit. I used to run a review site for user-created Half-Life maps called radium. I would have loved to have this around back then. I could have advertised a kast channel people could subscribe to to receive new maps as they came out. Could even push out a file with a link to the accompanying review, or maybe just send the review itself, or maybe just send a few screenshots and a summary and a download link.
:)
Anyways, I think its a really cool concept. Its been crashing on me a bit though, so hopefully it stabilizes and gains acceptance.
Security features in a language attempt (poorly in most cases) to substitute for the programmer having an adequate security mindset. If you rely on the security features of a language, then you're screwed if they're broken. You're relying on the security auditing that has been performed on that language's features, and committing yourself to live or die by it. Have you personally verified that that language's seecurity features are designed well, and strong enough to meet your security requirements? Has someone you trust done so and published the results? If not, why are you relying on it?
My advice is go the opposite direction. Learn about security from a programmer perspective. Accept only libraries and components that have been extensively audited by knowledgeable, trusted sources. Then build your server on top of them in a lower level language that affords you the ability to take direct charge of everything else. Make your server secure by thinking about security in every line you code.
I use C, but the exact choice of language isn't important; the mindset and approach is. This advice applies equally to any other language: Check the return value from EVERY system call, EVERY resource allocation, and EVERY library call. Verify ALL inputs before using them, both for length and for sanity of contents. Before EACH time you write something to any kind of buffer, check that you won't write past the end FIRST. Do all of these things in every function of every module of every application. And if you rely on a language or library feature instead of doing it yourself, you'd better be damn sure that the language or library feature is doing it correctly and completely -- VERIFY this before you deploy your program.
Some may call writing in C a security risk. Inherently, it isn't. C just gives the programmer more rope to either make a better knot or make a better noose, as they see fit. The first ten to twenty lines of nearly every C function I write go like this: return failure if this parameter isn't sane; return failure if that parameter isn't sane; return failure if any persistent context isn't consistent with how we were called; try to allocate all resources required for the function and return failure if any of those allocations failed. Some other languages may automate some of that. But as a security auditor, I'm going to want to see all that. If I can't see it, I'm going to want to examine in detail the implementation of the language features that do it implicitly. If I can't do that, then I can't consider the program secure. Using C helps me audit my code because it forces all security measures to be explicit and spelled out in detail. Yes, that's more work for the programmer. But it's less work and more certainty for the security auditor. That's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.
-----Chaz
A person with CORBA experience will recognize this as a service using the "canonical push model"
of the OMG Event Service -- see page 932 of Advanced CORBA Programming with C++ by Henning and Vinosky.
(actually, the OMG Notification Service would probably be used for this since filtering and quality of service issues are better addressed with that service.)
A service like this can be easily written in CORBA, and if utilizing the ACE and TAO frameworks, can be written in a cross-platform and portable manner.
Although CORBA, ACE, and TAO do have high learning curves, their use can greatly simplify the creation of projects like this, since most of an application
like this is boilerplate code. Please don't re-invent the wheel, the use of high quality application frameworks can save yourself much time.
In fact, this application would probably be considered a "Hello World" program for the CORBA Event or Notification Service.
No yuo?
(If you don't know who this is, ignore me.)
+++ATH0
"Needles," it reasoned, "often contain medicine."
And, so reasoning, it jammed the rusty needle directly into its ass.
Moral of the story:
Basically, you click on a link which will subscribe the peer to the channel, and the peer will automatically download/pre-cache any new items that are added to the RSS feed.
You simply have to create an RSS feed and create a link that converts that feed into a channel that is subscribable via the Open Content Network. I've set up an example of a movie trailer RSS feed here And have linked it into the Open Content Network here.
looks like xdcc 2.0 to me.
Oh, so what you're saying is "If you know how to do it right it will be right". Well, no shit. Not everyone who writes code in C++ has a mastery of the language.
The benefit of the other languages mentioned is that programmers don't have to worry about a miniscule mistake creating a security hole you can drive a truck through.
That the funniest thing I've read on Slashdot in weeks! Moderators, where are you?
Disclaimer: IANAL. This post is, however, legal advice, and creates an attorney-client relationship.
Hey...Slashdot people ain't that competent! :-)
This could be handy for people who can't watch their favorite teams because they don't live where the games are shown on TV. I'd love to have Tottenham games on my hd every Sunday morning. Or various European qualifiers they don't show on TV in the States.
If someone can put Larsson's 2 goals from today somewhere I'd appreciate it too.
You're like them magicians that tell people how to perform their magic tricks. :-P
Keep talking like this and we'll all be out of business.
Can't wait until CIAO comes out...CORBA Component Model for ACE/TAO.
Like EJB on nitrous oxide....
My background is as a AP for the financial sector. Quite frankly, if you think that sprintf is that much of a security risk, don't ever use any non-mainframe bank services - including ATMs (most of which seem to run M$ Winblows NT nowdays) - as about a quarter of non-mainframe services (in my experience) are C or C++ based (though this is more a rough 65-35 split for server and client, so even though the client program may not be a C/C++ program, the server may well contain C coding) and the majority of the server-side code that does any reparsing or formatting (this is probably more common then you think) will have at least one sprintf.
For that matter, non-C/C++ applications that the programming tool has been coded in C/C++ - there is a high chance that if not a sprintf it will have an equivalent.
Still, your call - the issues that are found in sprintf are very real for the inexperienced coders out there - but they ARE avoidable when sprintf is used correctly
-Trav
I should really get around to creating a sig.... Nah - too lazy =)
In fact, this application would probably be considered a "Hello World" program for the CORBA Event or Notification Service.
Konspire is still in beta. Why don't you write this "Hello World" program so we can have something in its final form?
Just wait til you get player policing.
:) So I'm an unemployed bum.
I wrote Gnutella in tandem with making Diablo 1 unhackable.
What it did was store everyones information on their computer. Everyone could play a MMORPG without a central server... With many anti cheat trip wires, finalizing on player community voting....
I found out it was more powerful than a Napster substitute... Thats why I was going to make it, until I realized someone else did.
That doesn't make me worthy of getting a job though
God spoke to me
What is going to prevent some stupid 12 year old boy from creating a "trusted" virus infected version of Application.exe?
Has anyone actually got this working? I start it up and try to connect to port 8085 with Mozilla and it just hangs there "waiting for localhost" Even that piece of crap mldonkey worked better than this!
From reading several of the comments here, it is obvious that people has no clue, nor even bothered reading about the program.
The connections are encrypted and you can set up your own channels and only give the key to people you trust. You can also easily change the key to each channel in case you suspect a breech in security.
I'm sure we will see a lot of use of this technology, think about it as a continued development of P2P and IRC concepts icnluding privacy and encryption which makes intercepting the transports useless unless you have the necessary keys, else you will have to retort to brute force and that may take awhile.
If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
g1V3 m33 cH4nULz l15t l4m3r k0N5piR3 b333000Tch!!! w4r3z 17 47!!!
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Okay, here's the plan. Let's say you have aquired lots of illegal money, that's not counterfeit.
Now-a-days an entry level VISA card cas anywhere between $2000+ in credit line. All you need for a plane ticket and a large truck won't cost you more than a $1000, so any credit card will do.
Notice there is no "????--hold on someone's calling: Hello ... Treasury Dept.?
Trans: What if we tried to resurrect one of the nuttier ideas from the dot-com bubble and try to flood people with files we want to distribute but they most likely don't want?
I would like to respond to some of konspire2b's claims about java.
From their FAQ:
java applications are difficult to install--- many users do not already have a copy of the java virtual machine installed on their machine. For these users, installing a java application means downloading and installing the java runtime, which is quite large and can be difficult to configure.
Java is extremely simple to install, particularly on popular OSes. Furthermore, no configuration is generally needed. Besides, you have java. So does your neighbor. Anyone who does not have java is, well, probably part of a group of fools trying to justify their failure to use the right tool by making weak claims that people don't have the tools to use it.
java applications start up slowly--- even the smallest java applications can take several seconds to start up, since the virtual machine needs to be loaded first.
This may be from some very outdated information. Early versions of java did have some speed issues, paricularly those using AWT. However, java VMs have made great improvements over the early days, and combined with improvements in hardware, it takes almost no time to start a java app. (There are still some third-party software pieces that may take a long time to start up, but that's the fault of the software's maker, not something inherent in java.)
java applications have slow, unresponsive user interfaces--- on slower machines, using java-based user interfaces can be frustrating (resizing the application window can mean taking a coffee break).
Any interface is the responsibility of its creator. As I said before, there were problems with AWT in earlier versions of java. However, great improvements have been made, and the claim that java applications have poor interfaces is groundless. If you don't believe me, try eclipse.
java applications use a lot of memory--- on most platforms, the virtual machine itself requires several MiB of memory, even for small applications that use very little memory. For more complicated applications, such as konspire2b, the virtual machine adds a lot of memory overhead. For example, kast currently uses about 1 MiB of memory when it's up and running. konspire 1.0 server (written using java) uses about 12 MiB. The interesting point is that konspire2b is far more complex that konspire 1.0 server (for example, the server portion of konspire 1.0 doesn't even have a user interface).
Modern VMs have a very small footprint, and in practical use, they do not add anything significant to the memory requirements of a program. The petty comparison here between kast and konspire is meaningless, as the two are completely different programs and there should be no expectation that they would be the same size. Memory optimization in java, as in any language, is the responsibility of the programmer.
java applications leak memory--- java uses garbage collection to manage memory, which seems to imply that programmers don't need to think about memory management at all. However, garbage collection gives a false sense of security, and java applications can still have memory leaks unless programmers are very careful. In fact, many java applications that run for extended periods of time leak memory to the point of exhausting all system memory. These types of leaks are very difficult for programmers to isolate. In fact, memory management may be more difficult with a garbage collector than without one.
I am a java programmer, and I can tell you first hand that it is very difficult to cause a memory leak in java. I have only ever seen two. One was due to third party software (and was not really a memory leak, but just a bug that caused memory not to be released in a timely manner) and the other was a poorly designed piece of code that was easily fixed. If you are using good design practices, you will never get a memory leak in java. Even wi
1. Add support for all file types
2. Decentralize so that the P2P program does not become illegal to use or is shutdown. Protection for the P2P app.
3.Encrypt connection so that users are now protected as well.(*cough* $94 billion lawsuit *cough*).
4.Make more efficient use of bandwidth so that on the whole, EVERYBODY using it benefits from everybody else and giving reliably fast downloads.
5.?????
6. PROFIT!!!!! (sorry, I couldn't help myself)
So this seems to be a pretty logical evolution that even Darwin would be proud of. Those that survive pass on their traits. And those that come after that build on the existing traits that have been proven effective. The question begs to be asked, where will the evolution of P2P take us? Where will it be 10 years from now. What will determine its evolution? Will it be mostly based in response to legal actions? The main problem I see with the evolution of P2P is that once a good system is in place, and everybody has jumped on board and it now has a sizable amount of content, nobody is really eager to leave to go try out/support a new P2P system, even if it offers significant advantages. What we need is some way to seperate the content management system from the delivery system in such a way that upgrading to a new P2P system doesn't entail leaving behind all the content from your old P2P network, because it can tap into that as well. I'm dying to know how people think P2P will evolve. And i'm not just talking about where it'll be next year, but rather 10 years from now......hell, 50 years from now.
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Every claim on his faq regarding Java is valid, and is valid right now.
Perhaps if people acknowledged this, and complained about it, these problems would be more quickly fixed.
If you want to continue to live in denial, and jump through hoops with straw-man arguments about how Java is "better" than it really is,
nothing will change, and Java will truly suck.
If it sucks, fix it!! -- don't rationalize the problem away.
There are memory issues, there are start up issues, there are issues with swing, many people hava Microsoft's crappy virtual machine installed and not the latest from Sun, if one doesn't know what he's doing, it is possible to have memory leaks in a Java program (although I do agree that this is/should be rare).
These are all problems among many, some are being worked on, some won't be worked on for quite a while, and some will never be fixed to everyone's satisfaction.
For many applications, these issues aren't a problem, for some they are critical.
For this application....well, you just have to accept the fact that not everyone likes Java....
:-P
I just might do so... :-)
I thought this would be great... so I installed it and opened a tunnel for it in my firewall. Then I watch a torrent of connections from this hole. For an hour 128Kb of my measly 256Kb upstream connection was saturated with konspire traffic. I checked to see what files I had snagged with konspire. To my suprise nothing, I hadn't recieved a single file. So what was I uploading at 128Kb? Screw it. Un-install, and tunnel closed. I'll wait for non-beta release.
"Times may change, but standards must remain the same." - George Carlin.
Here's a channel for everyone - fucking hard drum'n'bass mixes! you know you want some.
SURELY NOT!!!!!
For those who didn't know (like me) here is some info on RAII..
o ci d=8673&group_id=9028
http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?d
http://www.haxwell.org