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Chinese Manned Space Flight Set For Autumn
brandido writes "According to an article at Space.com, "Chinese space officials remain on schedule for the first piloted flight of that nation's Shenzhou spacecraft. Chief designers and mission directors say Shenzhou 5 will be launched in autumn, reported the People's Daily last week." Between this, the X-Prize, and multiple launches of Mars probes in the last few weeks, it looks like the space race may be heating back up?"
it's like my dad always said, "a little competition never hurt anyone."
look at the last time the US had a space race, we achieved what many call the greatest achievement of mankind, we landed on the moon.
Mike
and to think ... they all have accomplished so much even without the support of N*SYNC. Amazing.
KARMA TAG! You're it.
...because the astronauts on the space station have been hungry for delivery for weeks.
and I really hope everything goes perfect for them.
Because it seems that China will be the only hope for real advances in space. The US program will never gear up to what it is supposed to be at.
All I know is the thing that may do it, is china placing a moon base just might get the attention of the tubs of idiocy that sit in the congress and house of represenatives....
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
then I don't know what else could get NASA moving again.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
So when do we get to live on the moon. I want to fly in the air tank. And have an air conditioning plant(fern) in my room.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Wish them best luck.
Hopefully the Chinese pushing forward with developing their own space program might give NASA, ESA, and Multi-national Corporations the kick in the ass they need.
:-|
can't wait to be able to say "We live in a world where a Chinaman has walked on the Moon." can you?
Belief that Perspectives matter more than Facts = Mark of the Truly Ignorant
Yes, it definitely is. Only this time, it's the Capitalists vs. the Communists. Oh wait . . .
Let the superpopulation of the moon begin!
Huh huh...
Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul Ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
Anyhow, it claimed there were chinese plans from the 1400s or so for a space ship.
Although the manned space program has been ridiculously successful in terms of preventing accidents, there have been 3 instances where small decisions have led to fatal mishaps. The Apollo launchpad fire, the Challenger, and of course Columbia. The more times we attempt these types of activities, the more accidents we will have. That said...
I'm a space junkie, I love reading about anything exploration related. But national pride is not a good excuse for spending billions to go into space. Should we be celebrating the Chinese, or asking them why they aren't instead working on a way to contribute to the ISS program? Europe is heading for Mars news story, and the US has already been there. How many different times do we need to accomplish the same goal under different flags?
I applaud the Chinese for getting a man into space, this is by no means an easy task. But we have to look at priorities. I'd love to live in a world where competition wasn't the driving reason to succeed!
... to the 1960's, China!
on spacedaily.com : Arianespace, Boeing and Mitsubishi Heavy Plan alliance. By the way, Arianespace is already planning to work with the russian Proton guys... Looks like this kind of cooperation could be interesting in the long run for bigger projects, if this works out, a multi business way of thinking for e.g. future Mars missions wouldn't be looked upon as farfetched as it used to be (today, that is)
Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "Chin Up".
bwaaa haa haa haa
Best Windows Freeware
Although not much of a "race", I'm hoping it at least spurrs more NASA funding to send stuff to Mars (that won't blow up...)
:)
We humans are messing this planet up pretty bad, might be nice to move to a new one some day
--- If I had a funny sig too, you might be laughing now.
They're just having a problem getting the laser sword to operate.
...capability of launching humans into anal orbit and returning...
Oh god no....... not that!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
A wise man once said "Space should not be a race It should be a journey" :-P
If they follow the stereotypic asian driver (or suicidal pilot running into spy planes) I dunno if it'd be safe to have them up there.
Let's listen what the Information Minister has to say on this topic:
http://www.theinformationminister.com
Yeah, he knows what's going on...
the same reason politicans do stuff "for the children".
you suck, not even cloooooooooooooooooooooooooose.
Heating up?
Let's hope it doesn't "heat up" too much upon re-entry. Remember what happened to the Columbia!
There is a lot to be said for unmanned flight. Just because the Chinese are getting ready to send a manned spacecraft up does not mean that we should assume that this race is good. In reality it costs a LOT more to send a manned flight into space (safety concerns). That's money that might be better spent in other places. I can understand if lots of you are skeptical about it given where Congress chooses to spend money. Still, I would think that it might be worth a pause before deciding this is a race we need to win.
it looks like the space race may be heating back up?
I sure hope not. The space races of the past did little to foster cats(cheap access to space). And this won't either. It will be like the apollo missions to the moon, flag and footprints and never to return. I want space tourism, industry, and sustainable high level of commerce and privatization. The only one of these three items that has a potential of doing that is the X-Prize, because it fosters private industry not just feed the bueracracy that is NASA or ESA (European Space Agency). And now it looks like China is going to do the same thing. You'll have to excuse me if I'm a little underwhelmed.
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I wish them the best of luck.
Slashdot monitor for your Mozilla sidebar or Active Desktop.
exit solitaire long enough to read a damn book...you could even go further and pick up A HISTORY BOOK!!! or JUST maybe you might get a fucking clue and buy a newspaper every once in a while! maybe...if you're really feeling spunky...you could *gasp* LOOK IT UP!
buts since i'm so unspeakably generous i'll tell you the answer...
"The People" IS the Chinese gov...they labor under the same delusion as the americans. The Chinese Gov is considered the direct representation of every citizens will...thus "The People's [insert institutional name here]"
The Slashdot community should be ashamed. This story has only been up a short while, and already I'm seeing references to rockets made of bamboo, astronauts eating freeze-dried dog meat, and even the despicable phrase, "runar rander." This sort of bigotry and racism is unbefitting of one of the most respectworthy technical communities on the web today.
You are probably all just jealous because you lost your jobs to better trained immigrants, or because you always strike out with the cute Chinese ladies. Sad.
Boromir, son of Faramir, King of Gondor and Minas Tirith
i think it'll turn out ok, unless they decide to have one of their fire drills on the way up.
Because China is communist. Communisim is based on a shared people's state.
So, other than a cover for long range (ICBM) weapons testing, why is China revisiting the manned trip to the moon?
Anyone know how to say this in chinese? I want a ride up damnit!!
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Spacedaily.com claims sources say it will be later, somewhere in december, also rumours go that there's a big possibility for a 2 man crew, or even a 3 men crew, that would be a first in history: first launch attempt, and a 2 (or 3) men crew... i wish them all the luck they'll need.
...one giant step for WORLD WIDE CHINESE TAKE 0UT.
don't forget the pork fried jizz and cream of sumyung guy
Anybody else reminded of 2061? Bring on the monoliths!
My god it's full of stars!
Sometimes I wish the Soviets would have gotten to the Moon first because then Americans wouldn't have had any other choice but to put a man on Mars to save face.
Either that or a nuclear strike against the USSR (I'm not kidding, there were people who seriously suggested that to the US administration if the Soviet Moon program got too far) because otherwise the political situation would have been intolerable. It's all political, science is a third-rate consideration, and noble goals like actual expansion to the space are not even mentioned. But still, I wish them luck, any step forward for whatever reasons is better than our current self-admiring stagnation (like how long can we hype the moon landing?? It is still the main exhibit in all space-related museums after 35 years!)
When men used to be men
Gutenberg was a wuss who would have frozen to death if it hadn't been for the inventions of Ogg, Bringer of Flame.
Electrogravitic propulsion all the way!
o gy /gct_xprize_030615.html
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technol
'chinaman' is not the preferred nomenclature.
asian american, please.
Start a rumour about WMD being stashed on Mars. I guarantee you, a manned Mars program gets major funding! But that would be handled through the Father-errr...Homeland Security Agency, not NASA. _Nothing_ is going to get NASA moving again.
:)
:)
What else would get the US gummint on the space train: Oil on Mars! I can't see environmentalists being able to make a big dent in a drilling-on-Mars project.
Why is China interested in space? No SARS there. No student protestors, either.
Still, it'll be good to be able to get good Chinese food while in space. They should open up some restaurants at the LaGrange points and the Moon & Mars. General Tso's Space Chicken!
The Shenzhou spacecraft looks just like Russia's Soyuz space vehicle - bummer.
When are we going to get some new space vehicles, damnit?
Zzzzz.....
Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
(Seriously. Where would we be if the explorers of "yesteryear" had been as timid as we are today? I mean, do you think a single one of the explorers to the new world didn't expect it was VERY likely their ship would sink at sea and they would die? Yet they went anyway. Of course, it probably helped that almost all of Christopher Columbus's crew, they could only get them to go on the journey becuase they were all condemned criminals anyway, and it was life in jail or go on this boat to God knows where that might kill you. But still. The extent to which NASA protects its astronaut's lives is amazing, but things are *going* to happen, and I suspect no one becomes an astronaut without knowing and accepting that fully. Now, you may also say it isn't a great idea to spend billions on these spacecraft if quite possibly they're just going to blow up anyway, but i would counter that our government already spends billions and billions on devices which are designed and built for no other purpose other than to blow up in the most destructive way possible...)
(reuters)-BEIJING-The Chinese government today announced rumors that a manned spaceflight is to take place sometime during the next long while.
"Yes, the rumors exist. Sometime in the next long while we will start to seriously think about the possibility of putting a Chinese man somewhere above the trophosphere," an undisclosed official with possible ties to the Chinese government presumably stated.
It remains to be seen if China can make good on its possible intentions to consider manned spaceflight. Only two other countries have done so, the USA and Russia.
The reason why Americans suck at space is cause you are too busy being a racist worldwide, you just don't have time for science.
Somehow i'm getting the mental image of the ending of 2001.. he passes through the tunnel into transcendence as reality becomes unglued around him...
Except then, once he reaches the light at the end of the tunnel, instead of a giant space fetus, it's just the goatse guy..
That would suck..
Consider: Space Shuttle: concieved around 70's, built 80's Soyuz: 60's, minor upgrades, still based on old model. Shendzou: 90's, 00's? Granted, it seems to be based on the soyuz, but Chinese say they built it themselves, and this seems to be the case: it's considerably bigger, more modern electronics et.c. Who would ever have thought that the Chinese would be flying the most up to date spacethingy, it seems absurd, but it's a fact. How the world has changed since the 80's...
....to the 20th century. Good to see a new member of the club.
Brother troll, please be safe out there!
Oh what an intelligent and insightful comment! You've added so much to our lives by trying to inject you're humour which no doubt is based on your vast experiences in the world. Oh look! A warm, heartfelt apology... aww how kind of you. That must definitely make it all better.
Your comment was stupid.
"Sorry, someone had to say it.."
...we're going to have to worry about slant-eyed gook hippies now too?
Send ME up there. you fucks are all INSANE!
Definitely penicillin. Thank God, no more clap!
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
This is awesome news! It's great for competing nations because it gives them hope that there is something at which we won't completely dominate them. Consider the support of soccer (or football) across the globe. The rest of the world loves it because we suck at it. Everyone hates to be subjugated, but can also be calmed by minor victories. Consider Brad Pitt. The guy's probably better looking than anyone who's ever been to this site, but most people here find comfort in the fact that they are probably much smarter than him. Minor victory. But yet we are content. If we let the rest of the world fly into space in the hope that they can excel, then they just might calm down a bit. If everyone feels like a player, then there's no player-hating.
Also, if the US government begins to see the space-race as a missed opportunity, or even a threat, then they'll be forced to devote money and manpower towards space study/exploration. But this effort will not only be helmed by the government. When private enterprise realizes the opportunities in space, they will also be forced to turn their attention toward the stars.
All in all this will be a good thing. There may be some bumps in the road. Some explosions. Some burn-ups. Some wars. But in the end, we will move a step closer to ensuring our species' survival by getting off this dirt clod before it's too late!
Um... Shenzhou 5 will hardly be the first launch attempt. On the other hand, the space shuttle flew manned on its first launch attempt, with a crew of two.
The reason why Americans suck at space is cause you are too busy being a racist worldwide, you just don't have time for science.
</quote>
Nice generalization. A few points:
We should work on propulsion systems with less $/kg, as well as robotic exploration of the solar system. Manned space flight at this point seems to have no scientific or economic value.
Whatever it is, you are a 45 year old white trash who has nothing better do than come here and post racist comments on chinese people. I bet your wife divorced you for very good reasons, and I bet my buddies in Lachine would nicely cut your tires if we want to.
Hell, if I were in China, or several other countries, I'd probably be considered a rancher 'cause of my 2 (very big) dogs.
At least I recognize that likes and dislikes, to a large extent, are culturally determined, not absolutes. I also consider it fair game. You don't? Tough shit. Don't ever go to the Nasty Show at the Just for Laughs Comedey Festival. You'll see gays making fun of gays, women making fun of men, men making fun of women, men making fun of men, women making fun of women, blacks making fun of whites, whites making fun of blacks, whites making fun of whites ...
Get an account.
Shouldn't that be a Mandarined Moon Mission?
==========
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Abort / Retry / Ignore ?
"putting a Chinese man somewhere above the trophosphere"
A hate to break it to the undisclosed Chinese official, but a Chinese man has already been above the troposphere. We sent him up in the Space Shuttle. He is my former boss, and all around great guy Taylor Wang. http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/wang-t.html
He is now a prof. at Vanderbilt University, where I worked for his dept. as a student worker for several years.
SARS on Mars
Well, since everyone believes they Nasa havent been to the moon maybe we can have a new Spacerace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sending manned-flight to the space will be a huge step for china, as they'll be even closer to checking out the moon, which for centuries, is believe to be the resort for the Moon Goddess and those rabbits.
the implication could be huge, as chinese are known to be very creative and inventive in terms of technologies, but they're somehow restricted at the moment.
Moderators, dont mod this racist pig. He's a 50 year old troll who uses mild racism in all his comments since I've seen him. Please do not give him an upper hand, he would be all over. I hope people like this would leave /. on their own.
the chinese are going to do the same thing that the US and Russia have been able to do for more than 40 years now. wake me up when some actual exciting news happens.
-Cnik
Once manned heavier-than-air flight was demonstrated, going to the moon was pretty inevitable
Um, no.
Flight through the atmosphere with heavy craft and launching something into space are almost completely unrelated problems.
For the first, you need to figure out how airfoils work to produce lift (helicopter blades count in this category), and figure out how to move the air that surrounds your craft to produce thrust. Then there's materials engineering to get the performance to weight ratio nice enough.
For the second, you have to figure out celestial mechanics, and you have to figure out how to build reaction drives that _don't_ use the surrounding medium to move (as you won't have air around you for much of your trip, and it's more of a hindrance than a help at significant speed). Then you have the herculean task of materials engineering and clever craft design required to get an impulse-to-weight ratio large enough to escape the gravity well (or at least have enough delta-v for orbit). If the gravity well was even a little deeper, we wouldn't have been able to do it with chemical rockets at all (though aircraft would still be easy to build).
There's a world of difference between a jet engine and a rocket engine. There's a world of difference between something light and strong enough to glide and something light and strong enough to have a 40:1 wet:dry weight and make orbit. It's not a difference of scale - it's a difference of fundamental type of device.
In summary, please do more research about exactly what's involved in each task before proclaiming that one follows from the other. What actually precipitated _both_ was the industrial revolution, which gave a drastic increase in technology and in materials science.
Nevermind the numbers. Just look at the vehicles at the bottom of the picture. Compare the size of the bus to the size of the rocket in the Chinese picture. In the NASA picture there is a pickup truck there, but you barely even notice it because everything else is so huge.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
- Pointing out that the Chinese do eat dogs (and 2 have told me about it) isn't racist.
- It's amazing how many ACs like to make threats.
- Wrong divorce. I'm the one who filed for divorce after enduring too many of her schizo fits (and I proved in court that she was a mental head case who wasn't able to discern truth from her own paranoid fantasies).
- And you got my age wrong.
So STFU.that shoot that far?
Or if the communist government doesn't believe in god, chairmanofthecommunistpartyspeed...
And you keep getting my age wrong, too
What next, you'll get my weight wrong also?
<quote>since I've seen him. </quote>
I seriously doubt you've seen me. I tend to not keep company w. people who make rash judgments about others.
Remember, it's a cultural difference between the Chinese and North Americans regarding dog meat and horse meat, not a race thing. The Chinese find us equally odd for eating horse meat. Just do a google and you'll see what I mean.
Besides, there are no different "races" of humans. Just humans and ACs :-)
"Between this, the X-Prize, and multiple launches of Mars probes in the last few weeks, it looks like the space race may be heating back up?"
Stephen Baxter's wonderful book Titan starts out with the first Chinese manned spacecraft orbit of earth, which does in fact spark a new military build up comparable to the American/Russian era.
I can't recommend this book highly enough, it is remarkable to me how time and again how close Sci-Fi authors come in their visions of the future of our race.
1) Your analysis is based on bad assumptions so your result is way off. 2) You're a sick bastard for fucking a horse.
Sounds like the parent needs to be moded -1 Jealous.
Yup, we squeeze every possible asset trying to eliminate every other nation on earth. We don't hand other countries BILLIONS of dollars to get them money to deal with aids and such. Maybe we should just leave every other country in the world alone, to get over run by tyrants just so we can send some people to Mars.
Spaceballs quote:
"Yes, THAT!" *Zaps his you-know-what*
I just hope with this being the chinese, the American government will restart its space program (which atm is pretty much dead) now that it has another 'evil' communist country (well sort of) to compete against. I can't wait for President Bush to announce the 'first country to put a man on mars race'.
We suck great horse dick too! DO YOU TOM? DO YOU? YOUR FUCKING WIFE IS A CUNT, I SPOKE TO HER ON THE PHONE ONCE, and she told me she had to divorce you cause of your issues! Man, I know you pretty well, I know you and I know a lot of shit about you, I have been quite all this time cause you have decided to show up on the same message board I come on. But, If I see BS from you, you'd get your personal shit on here as fast as you can say.. SUCK HORSE DICK>
Do they really beleive everything is for "the people"?
But if you're not, so what? So, in the interest of educating trolls everywhere, next time you post, pls. get the facts straight, in order to be more convincing :-)
- I'm the one who filed for the divorce (1997)
- I'm the one who produced the witness to testify about her mental problems. (1998)
- I'm the one who got a judge to state that "she sounded convincing in the beginning, but as her testimony continued, it became impossible to separate truth from fantasy and outright lies"
Or maybe you have me confused w. someone elseThe Chinese are going to the moon, with any luck, and this is not just a good thing, it's GREAT! As I stated elsewhere, it'll get people everywhere thinking "why not", instead of whining "why". I'm sure most of us would love to be with them on the trip.
is that the entire crew will die in a horrible accident.
Mark my words.
But it didn't have to be that way. And it still doesn't.
Besides, one of these days we may get a buckyball skyhook, and then we'll really be able to speek of the "climb to orbit" :-) Finally, an event that would actually get me to watch the Olympics.
The United States and the former Soviet Union would like to welcome China to the 1950's and 1960's.
My guess is that China would have a long term goal to get to the high ground while the rest of us are watching it on reality TV.
The good news is that they will save on shipping costs for all their components, as most high tech stuff comes from Asia these days anyway.
Ross Youngblood
It's not looking good for the U.S. China and the U.S. are heading in opposite directions, economically.
China, being 4x the population of the U.S., only needs half our productivity to have 2x our economic strength. China is loosening up for business, while the U.S. is slapping ever more regulations and roadblocks on ours.
Can't smoke in restaraunts. Can't build here with out a $30k "study" and lots of luck. Get sued for $1 million because someone had a pr0n on their e-mail. Get sued for another because someone wiped out on your snowy sidewalk in the 20 minutes between when it snowed and when you noticed for shovelling. Get sued for another million because you were standing there when a fleeing suspect drove into you and your head went through the windshield to where they were driving and injured their body.
We are currently hopeless.
"Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
Your generalization of Americans as racists is itself a racist generalization.
That's precisely why I hate all bigots!
I stole this Sig
The Russians had a couple of close calls with their Soyuz program during the 1980's. I remember that one time during a launch the second stage shut down prematurely, forcing an emergency landing that nearly had the Soyuz capsule end up in China. In 1983, the rocket carrying a Soyuz spacecraft literally caught fire on the launch pad, and it was decided to have the astronauts escape using the escape rocket tower, which was a right decision because 20 seconds after the escape rocket tower fired carrying the Soyuz spacecraft away the rocket literally collapsed on the launch pad in a big ball of fire.
Oh this must make us geeks happy.
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
My girlfriend is Chinese (not a citizen of US yet), and she has never eaten dog and never will. If it's fair to make fun of some Chinese people for this practice then it's just as applicable for them to make fun of Americans for storing too many appliances in the front lawn of the double-wide trailer.
The Chinese can export their one child policy, forced abortions and Kent State massacre one hundred times over policy to alien civilizations.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
I don't see why thy shouldn't put a man (woman?) into space. NASA sure is having problems these days, the Russians are down on their luck but still in the space race, and Europe is having a few problems with the big Arianne launchers. If someone else can get a stable rocket into orbit with a human aboard, go for it.
------ Will of Iron, Knees of Jello.
..capability of launching humans into anal orbit and returning...
...and wiping out Klingons?
Weeks of coding saves hours of planning.
how much money do you have?
Laws are for people with no friends.
I believe that the only reason China wants in space is to show the world that they can. They have been looked down at for so many years (rightly so for a lot of reasons). But this is all a publicity stunt/trying to climb the world ladder. I just feel sorry for the people whos lives will be in jeopardy when the government starts taking shortcuts.
Maybe I'm just pissed off that they got the olympics instead of Toronto, just because of politics.
Most important: Your generalization of Americans as racists is itself a racist generalization.
Technically, no, it's not.
The American race, per se, is the Native American. The various immigrant groups that form up the bulk of the population categorised as "American" aren't a race. Therefore, making bigoted statements about them isn't being racist.
Racism is a prejudice based around appearance, not nationality.
"Software is too expensive to build cheaply"
2) It's amazing that a person would publicly make stupid bigoted comments under his own name. Can't that be used against you, if you get a job anywhere outside of Idaho?
3) Can you blame her going crazy, being married to a weird bigot who repeatedly posts anti-Chinese message on a techie message board?
Hey, I WAS born here; that makes me a "Native American"!
Or do you have a different definition of "native"?
Maybe what you meant to say (if your ignorance had not been in the way) was "aboriginal Americans".
um... The article is a bit more clearly worded than my mumblings, i'm afraid. I meant to parafrase: 1st manned orbital launch attempt by a country... (yuri Gagarin:1) (Glenn:1) chinese willt ry for (mr X and Mr y (2) well, it's nitpicking; but it would be a first...
But it didn't have to be that way. And it still doesn't.
sure it doesn't have to be that way, but that's the way it is. which you seem to be acknowledging, so i don't know why you had problems with my initial statement...
--me-- except launching something into space has very, very little to do with flight!
--you-- Do a little research on manned space flight...
China has had ICBM's that can reach anywhere in the US for over 2 decades now. They don't need an expensive manned space program now for cover. www.fas.org
Made in China
not to mention a keyboard with 6000 keys.
Actually, every single person in the world except for you realizes that "Native American" means Indian, and that "aborigine," outside of scientific discussion, has connotations of racism.
Your semantic games indicate a low intelligence. Do you go around asking people why they park on driveways, and drive on parkways? Do you?
If it works good luck to them. The mere fact that they are doing this is enough to push the space race into higher gear again. In the long run it will be good for the economy and there will definitely be a manned human settlement on the moon within the next two decades.
... insert SARS/"Reverse Andromeda strain" joke here.
But the real question is: Why the hell are you discussing your personal life with Anonymous Cowards on slashdot? Ignore them and they'll go away.
Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam
I bet he does.
I say. The more we goto space the better at we get. MArs here we come.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
I've been to Mann's Chinese Theater... does that count?
...the next nation that sends astronauts in to space with their own domestically built vehicle goes back in time to the '60s?
...them's the breaks I guess.
I'm rather somewhat surprised that the French or the British or the Japanese haven't sent up their own manned ships yet.
The Germans were ahead of all of them and us at one point.
...whatever nation launches a manned space mission in their own domestically built vehicle goes back in time to the 50's and 60's. I suppose the EU will send manned missions in to space at some point though I'm somewhat surprised that neither the French, British, or Japanese haven't done it already. ...and the Germans were ahead of all of them and us at one point.
It's just that there are certain conventions or short cuts that people seem to want to stick to in conversations, and we thus have the term "race", when what we really mean is people of different cultural and/or ethnic backgrounds.
Mind you, in the grand scheme of things, even cultural or ethnic differences shouldn't mean anything, except as a point of respect and understanding for differing upbringings and world views - after all, the world would be boring if we were all alike :-)
But if we want to get pedantic, or technical, there is no "native american race". Our common ancestor (for all humans, with the possible exception of /. trolls) appears to have come out of Africa at some time in the distant past.
My unstated point was that (and I guess I should have taken the time to include it) the political process and pork-barrelling have interfered with the way that we currently attempt space missions.
There was a dual-pronged approach to space flight in the early days. While the US boosters were blowing up on the launch pad, and the USSR was having launch after launch into orbit (w/o disclosing the ones that didn't make it), there was a second path that the USAF was working on - this included vehicles that could take off and land under their own power, as opposed to being shot into space atop a converted ICBM.
Now we may have to re-invent and extend the technology that allowed the X-15-A2 to go to 354,000 feet, at over 4,000 mph. Or look at a different approach.
Even today, space flight is more about politics and national prestige than it is about advancing man's knowledge of the universe.
This statement had nothing to do with engineering, and everything to do with human curiosity.
The LEM certainly did a powered descent from orbit. Would you say this is not "flight", just because there was no asmosphere?
Also, as I previously pointed out, the advances in atmospheric flight (materials science and engineering, human responses to changes in pressure, temperature, air mixture, etc., g-suits, pressure suits, nav systems, comm systems, etc...) helped pave the way for space travel.
I'm not including space capsules, but even your definition (using aerodynamic forces to travel through an atmosphere) would include the space shuttles' unpowered glide (I know, it's glide ratio is crap, but it certainly cannot be described as a ballistic path). Or do we now exclude all gliders from our definition of flight?
How about the Fermi paradox?
Simply put, the conjecture is that our universe should be teeming with life. If so, why don't we see intelligence is a self-limiting process, where, once certain discoveries are made, the "intelligent" species blows itself out of existence.
The fact that we have yet (area 51 notwithstanding) had any verifiable evidence of other intelligences in the universe would indicate that the paradox might hold some truth.
The premise is that, if you can keep a troll occupied, he or she won't be bothering other people, will eventually get bored, and in the meantime isn't bothering others.
The requirements for back-trolling are as follows:
- Do it on company time. Not on your own time. Once the troll realizes that, contrary to hm/her, you're actually getting paid for your time, the trolling activity is much less enjoyable
- Keep the discussion off-topic, so people who are browsing above a certain level aren't interfered with. This is consistent with back-trollings' purpose of making the net a better place.
- When the troll looks like they're going to slip away, dangle some personal info in front of them. Keep them on the hook longer. This way, when they finally leave, they will be less likely to want to waste more time trolling someone else
- Look at the post times - most of the trollers are after-school kids who are looking for some form of self-expression and attention from somebody, anybody. By giving them this attention, you're keeping them from indulging in other types of anti-social behaviour.
- To keep their attention, you have to have a sense of humor, and also be ready to feign anger, outrage, whatever is required to keep the troll engaged in the discussion. Remember, your goal is to keep them from harassing other, less thick-skinned netizens.
Maybe I should post a back-trolling howto. Further comments or ideas would be appreciated:-)If and when you have kids, you may one day be able to look at them in wonder, realizing that, while they are "naturally occurring organisms", they also represent, at least in your own eyes, your most important achievement :-)
My unstated point was that (and I guess I should have taken the time to include it) the political process and pork-barrelling have interfered with the way that we currently attempt space missions.
when you're dealing with billions of tax payer dollars, of course the "political process and pork-barreling" is part of it; that's the job of the politicians- to look out for their constituents! the money's being spent, might as well as have it make some jobs in your district! =)
as far as self-powered launches, that was *NOT* being explored in the early programs. simply wasn't feasible technologically. hell, we still can't do it today. ;)
veliath
I think if we had to, we could do it. Would take a few years, but with sufficient motivation, the engineering could be done. Long-term, it would be more viable than anything we've got now. But I still want the bucky-tube space-hook!
Your original statement has merit.
The LEM didn't operate in an atmosphere, therefore had nothing whatsoever to do with flight. Flight happens exclusively in atmospheres.
Some of the technologies are similar indeed, but the engineering of the vehicles is a totally different kettle of fish.
The shuttle's gliding capability is really a joke. Yes, it can sorta turn a little bit, and sorta guide itself, but it's on the ragged edge of controlled wing-borne flight. If the shuttle had not been designed by committee, (specifically, the Air Force, which absolutely demanded a winged vehicle, so that it could land at Vandenberg Air Base for some weird reason) it would not be a winged vehicle at all.
Gliders are unpowered, wing-borne flight. Some people consider lighter-than-air vehicles to fly, but I think it's a degenerate case. Jet-borne flight (like the Harrier) is a special case. Helicopters are certainly borne by their rotating wings.
Sure, it's a semantic argument, but that's the way the discussion was going...
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Like why the average monthly wage in china is $2.
I can't believe these tards. They've GOT to realize that if they were capitalist, they'd own the world...
/sigh
Definition of flight from dictionary.com
Seems pretty plain to meEven NASA calls it space flight:
- Goddard Space Flight Center
- Marshall space Flight Center
-
NASA Office of Space Flight
Keep in touchFair enough. You and NASA disagree with myself and John Andersen, who wrote my aerodynamics textbook.
The list of things I disagree with NASA about would fill a large number of posts.
I stand by my distinction. It's obviously open to interpretation. Moving along. : )
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
I strongly suggest that you read Parasite Rex by Carl Zimmer. Hopefully my point will be much clearer to you then. :)
I'm not saying that fight is all there is, but the evidence presented by parasitologists and zoologists suggest that cooperation and competition go hand in hand (cooperate with your fellow group-mates, so that you can out-compete the other group in the same territory -- perhaps even wage war on them. Baboons and chimpanzees do fight each other, y'know).
Also, the fact that we can prevent the spread of certain diseases, like SARS, doesn't change the rules of biology at all, anymore than a primate who hollers when a tiger or some other big predator approaches does. Humans don't have a monopoly on communicating threats.
To say that humans are "above evolutionary pressures" only demonstrates a lack of understanding on what evolution is. If the environment decides to throw a ten kilometer diameter asteroid at Earth and wipes out humanity, then it is pretty obvious that we did not yet evolve enough to deal with this disastrous change in environment!
Provided of course that we don't destroy ourselves first, which would be a demonstration of how humans can place evolutionary pressure on themselves.
The United is a capitalist dictatorship. See how one President Bush pushed his country to war with a majority of the population in disagreement.
China is a one-party democracy. It's not like the US or North Korea where the leadership is passed on from father (Kim and Bush Srs.) to son.
Really, the only really democratic countries are the small North European countries, and even they are in danger of being swallowed up by the EU.
Not so... race refers to subspecies or breeds, and there are definitely those in the human species.
The classic breakdown is African, Caucasian, and Asian. This is highly simplistic, and there are more.
All up, there's about 20 or so human sub-species, and (believe it or not) not all can breed easily with all the other sub-species.
"Software is too expensive to build cheaply"
OK, this REALLY isn't offtopic ;-)
.........
- tool use
- language
- agriculture
- writing
- the steam engine
- the assembly line
- the computer
- the internet
what's scary is that if you chart those out on a timeline, the periods are decreasing exponentially
simon
home page
This is the same argument that the kennel clubs make about their "breeds". It's all bullshit. There's only "canis familiaris". Sure, we use shorthand, such as "Newfoundland" or "St-Bernard", but it's all the same - a dog. Now, I wouldn't try interbreeding my Newfie with a Chihuahua, because the Chihuahua wouldn't survive the mating. This has everything to do with the size of the parts, and nothing to do with genetic incompatabilities. In humans, there is nowhere near as much variance.
"classic breakdown..." sounds pretty dated to me. "highly simplistic..." can't argue there.
Well, I don't believe it. Can you provide any evidence?
Parent is in fact troll. To enlighten parent's poster, reponse follows.
>> why exactly should I be penalized because you feel it's important to have government involved in space exploration?
R&D yields economic opportunity. Ever heard of the microchip? As for being "penalized", it's called "taxation" and it's part of being in ANY society where the masses are not owned outright by the ruling class.
>> The key to space exploration is not bigger, more oppressive government. You're right; that's the key to "homeland security". The key is recognizing opportunities and acting on them. I know of 2 cases where private entities have gotten into building space infrastructure. In the mean time, the gov is the entity which has the resources and vision (at least, kennedy did) to realize that space is worthwhile and indeed strategically necessary. I know you'd love for us all to burn our books and go back to the farm, but those days are gone. I'm not going to waste my time explaining to you that populations grow geometrically while their resources grow arithmetically and how the primary resource of all economies is actually energy, ie sunlight regardless of storage form; I won't bother arguing with you that colonization (NOT immigration) of nearby planetoids is the smartest way to harvest needed resources (energy and minerals, which can be turned into needed products like food and tools). I won't go into depth (although I could) because Rush-Limbaugh-ites like yourself don't care about logic and facts unless they can be used to your own advantage; the only thing they (or you) care about is getting paid more, taxed less, and no rights for non-WASPs.
>> and give the money back to those who know how to spend it best: those who actually earned it in the first place. The only problem with your theory is that people who reach the economic stratosphere only get there by pursuing their own interests to the exclusion of the interests of others. If Bill Gates and Donald Trump cared more about the future of humanity than the power rush of influencing world events, and the rational for a space-development program were laid out for them, they would fund it. But, if they were that altruistic, they never would have got to "the top" because someone just as driven but with less ethical constraints would have stomped them while they were still small fry.
THAT'S why we HAVE government; to recognize and execute actions in the interest of the many which are not apparent to the individuals.
Or would you prefer that we cease taxation and disband our military? Have you ever taken a political science course, or did you ignore everything therein because you didn't like the conclusions reached on considering the tradeoff between conformity costs and consensus costs?
>> I hate to bring it up, but the US government space program has failed spectacularly not once but twice. If that was a private firm competing in the market, they would have been driven into the ground a long time ago, and rightly so.
I hate to bring it up, but the USA failed to repel the German advance more than twice in early WWII. Under your logic, we "should" have given up at that point, because the determination of a "free market" overrides all other considerations, eg genocide and fascism. We "should" have let the Communists in Russia have all the internation prestige associated with the space race because our rockets blew and theirs flew. Good logic. No doubt you'd disagree in these points (as would I) that other, more important considerations take priority. That is my point on your question and I hope you can understand if even if you cannot swallow the truth of it. So here's my summary for the attention-challenged:
The future condition of humanity hinges on our solution to the lack of environmental and technological resources we face.
It is mathematical FACT that we WILL either find new resources or experience resource shortages. Because str
Let's face it, the United States is badly in need of an old fashioned, BOHICA, humiliation. The Russians pulled it off with Sputnik, but I'm not sure the Chinese can get us off our collective butts. Maybe if they start launching weapons into space, that'd be a good old fashioned Cold War type deal. Beats having their economy make us their bitch twenty years from now.
What would Richard Feynman do, if he were here right now? He'd do some math and he'd follow through!