Slashdot Mirror
Power Outages Strike East Coast
fordp writes "CNN, CNBC and others are reporting that major power outages are happening just after 4:00PM EDT in New York, New Jersey, Detroit, Ottawa and Toronto, Toledo." There are reports of a Con Edison transformer on fire on 14th Street in NYC, and lots of people stuck in trains and elevators. CNN is reporting that it is, according to power officials, most likely not related to terrorism, because you know you were wondering. The Niagra Mohawk power grid is overloaded, which feeds electricity throughout the northeast U.S. and into Canada. Update: 08/14 21:06 GMT by P : The mayor said there was no fire, that it was black smoke brought on by an automatic shutdown because of the power grid failure.
..You don't have to worry as much about port 135 being open.
Some reports have suggested that Boston, MA, US was affected. Downtown is operating normally.
Given one hour to live, the student replied: "I'd spend it with professor FP who can make an hour seem like a lifetime."
If I had power I could First Post.
And in other breaking news, a great chorus of laughter could be heard clear across the country, apparently originating from California.
On a conf call with some co-workers - they started losing power intermittantly just over an hour ago.
Mayor Bloomberg was just on the radio and said that the Con Edison transformer on 14th Street in NYC is not on fire. It just release some black smoke when it shutdown due to the grid overload.
This article detailing using semiconductors to mitigate large scale grid power surges ran in today's NYTs.
All the evidence points to a natural overload.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Mayor Bloomberg is reporting on CNN that the black smoke some people have seem coming from the Con Edison plant is a result of an automatic shutdown process that was triggered by an outage at Niagra Mohawk Power, which feeds power to NYC as well as the other major cities on the region which have lost power.
They are not sure the cause of the Niagra outage but they do not have any indication of terrorism at this time.
I'm in Manhattan right now, near Colombus Circle. All power is out across all 5 boros. No traffic lights, hundreds of thousands trapped in the subway... I'm dialed in through Verizon (wow. good network, right?) on a laptop, through a PBX with a battery backup.
According to the radio, the 14th street power station is burning. Of course, it also is talking about blackouts from Cleveland to Toronto. With no power, my poor tropical fish have less than a few hours to live, and I already hear a crowd in the street screaming, but it's mostly good natured right now.
I'm sorry, this seems like sabotage. I've got 100 gallons of fresh water, and a sword.
And I'm posting on slashdot.
Oh well. I guess I just wanted to say hello. =p
I was watching Modern Marvels on the History channel, randomly, when I noticed that CNN and MSNBC had their news anchors put the war helmets on, and start the 9/11 rant all over again.
I'm not one to say that we shouldn't worry a little, but coincidences happen! Why should we jump to conclusions long before anything really big has happened? Come on now, this is just way too much hype!! When they begin to find evidence of something bad happening, then tell me about power outages.
People stuck in elevators? Please. The power goes out everywhere, let's at least pretend that we're not shaking in our boots, and put some confidence back in our country!
A huge power blackout hit U.S. cities spreading from New York to Cleveland and Detroit and north into Canada Thursday afternoon. In New York City, the blackout affected subways, elevators and airports, including John F. Kennedy and LaGuardia airports. Thousands of people streamed into the streets of lower Manhattan in 90-degree heat. In Toronto, Ontario, too, workers left their offices after the blackout hit shortly after 4 p.m. EDT. Traffic lights were out throughout downtown Cleveland, creating havoc at the beginning of rush hour. There were reports of outages in New Jersey and Connecticut as well. Every prison in New York state reported a loss of power and had switched to backup generators, said James Flateau, a spokesman for the state Department of Corrections.
who wants to rule the world?
Here is a link to the solar flare situation there is an X class happening right now! http://sunspotcycle.com/
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
They set up us the bomb!
We had the power brown out here in South Central Michigan, which lasted for a few minutes. Right in the middle of playing a game, fortunately I just saved. I hope this ain't hacker or terrorist related...
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Judging by this chart I'd say a whole lot of people were running their air conditioners today. Maybe that's it?
finally got that extra long extension cable rigged up....
This is kind of weird. I work at a mid size hosting center and ISP and since we normally run on generator power, we didn't know that there was a widespread power outage. Things started popping up on our monitoring system -- and they all seemed completely unrelated. Of course, it turned out that all the things going red were customers with T1 lines and such, that were in buildings losing power. :)
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
Well, the NYSE has tons of backup generators. A friend of mine just sent an email from the floor, and she reports that at least the AC and computers are working.
got biv?
If a riot starts, looting starts, or if this is part of some kinda terrorist attack you are going to feel dumb.
Lets be serious. This is not SCOs fault, its Microsofts fault.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
shit, i better turn off my new overclocked 4ghz athlon!
R.I.P.
I bet it is running on linux and the OS license
was revoked by SCO.
From what I heard, terrorists working for SCO were exploiting port 135 worms after declaring their hatred for IBM on Friendster (of course, they were disguised as John Ashcroft and their accounts were cancelled) and, from all accounts, they were just "testing a random number generator". Where does it all end?!?!?
You know your a geek when your reading Slashdot during a power cut. :-D
He also said that there was no grid overload, it was just being shut down for regular maintenance.
...that this is due to a single fire at a major ConEd substation.
So this one isn't terrorism (so they say), but I'm sure terrorists will be delighted to know that they can throw five major cities into utter chaos by taking out one substation and getting an assist from the domino effect.
~Philly
I report this 20 minutes earlier when it happens and I get rejected....
I find it really interesting that one overload in niagra falls area can do this to the power grid.
Why in the world is it engineered that way? to allow undersized power plants supply a city that overgrew it's power potential?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Got home to find my clocks flashing 12:00... Realized my DSL is out (problems connecting to the PPPoE server), so my ISP still has equipment out.
Tried to call a friend in Manhattan on her Verizon cell phone before I realized everything that was happening and kept getting "all circuits down", so obviously lots of things are messed up.
Watching some CNBC and CNN on the news, people seem to be going a bit insane here, wandering the streets in mobs, etc.
Also, no power problems reported in central Boston:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=& threadid=406947
PepperHacks - Hacking the Pepper Pad
I always wondered what that wall switch was for and today I finally turned it off. My bad. After dinner I'll go turn it back on.
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
NO CARRIER
Litigious bastards
Don't believe that sunspots can trigger power outages? Think again.
Should serve as an example to the Department of Energy. The U.S. needs a distributed power generating system ASAP. Lots of small solar and wind generators all over the nation. Every block should have one.
Right now, "officials" are saying this probably isn't terrorism. But I bet it's giving al-Qaeda some ideas.
If an accident can make this happen, I'm sure a cleverly-placed explosive can make it happen much more easily.
And once all those cities are out of power and essentially crippled, the real strikes start.
And now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go get some tea on for when the FBI guys come knocking on my door. Does Ashcroft take one lump or two?
3D Printing Tips and Tricks at Zheng3.com
With the generating station right accross the street from my house, my workplace in St Catharines is using a powered backup for its alternative energy.
Kewl.
I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=51 9&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20030814/ap_on_re_us/blackout
0 03Aug14?language=printer
Massive Blackout Hits Northeastern States
3 minutes ago
NEW YORK - A huge power blackout hit U.S. cities spreading from New York to Cleveland and Detroit and north into Canada Thursday afternoon.
In New York City, the blackout affected subways, elevators and airports, including John F. Kennedy and LaGuardia airports.
Thousands of people streamed into the streets of lower Manhattan in 90-degree heat.
In Toronto, Ontario, too, workers left their offices after the blackout hit shortly after 4 p.m. EDT.
Traffic lights were out throughout downtown Cleveland, creating havoc at the beginning of rush hour.
There were reports of outages in New Jersey and Connecticut as well.
Every prison in New York state reported a loss of power and had switched to backup generators, said James Flateau, a spokesman for the state Department of Corrections.
White House officials were monitoring the blackout from Washington and from San Diego, where President Bush (news - web sites) addressed troops at midday.
http://www.drudgereport.com/
A huge power blackout hit U.S. cities spreading from New York to Cleveland and Detroit and north into Canada Thursday afternoon. In New York City, the blackout affected subways, elevators and airports, including John F. Kennedy and LaGuardia airports. Thousands of people streamed into the streets of lower Manhattan in 90-degree heat. In Toronto, Ontario, too, workers left their offices after the blackout hit shortly after 4 p.m. EDT. Traffic lights were out throughout downtown Cleveland, creating havoc at the beginning of rush hour. There were reports of outages in New Jersey and Connecticut as well. Every prison in New York state reported a loss of power and had switched to backup generators, said James Flateau, a spokesman for the state Department of Corrections.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A59083-2
Power Outage Hits Major U.S., Canadian Cities
Reuters Thursday, August 14, 2003; 4:59 PM
NEW YORK - A massive power outage swept across swaths of the eastern United States and Canada on Thursday, leaving sections of New York City, Detroit, Cleveland and Toronto without electricity, witnesses said. Subways in New York came to a complete halt, and power was out at all three of the New York area's major airports. Commuter train service also came to a halt, and cellular telephone service was disrupted. The Oyster Creek nuclear power plant in Forked River, New Jersey was not functioning, according to people familiar with the plant's operation. A spokesman for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security said they did not know the reason for the power outages, but said the department was looking into it.
Someone queue the Barry White, its Baby Making time. Or for those less inclined, or lacking a significant other, I guess you could always cower in a corner with no /. and no quake, and no email :)
most likely not related to terrorism
In related news, the door of the loo at SaintJohns Library being cracky is not a case of terrorism (we know what you we're thinking)
Seriously folks... this is the FUD M.Moore is talking about. Even if one is 100% sure no terrorism is involved, the media can't resist mentioning it, thus keeping the public constant aware of the danger of terrorism.
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
Great, now all the terrorist wackos who watch
the news can see how fragile the power grid
around here really is.
Middletown, CT (south of Hartford by one major town) had a flicker just long enough to knock all the PC's and workstations offline. (*Just* long enough.) Personally, I lost the last bit of progress on a hairy makefile that finally started working, but it could've been worse. (Ironically, I was halfway through the emacs save sequence when it happened, too. Ctrl-X, Ctrl- *poof*). Blah.
Skynet has us by the balls now!
1977 Power Outage
It's still moving. Erie, PA, flickered when it happened and just went out (5:10 PM Eastern). It's on the lake between New York and Ohio, so it's on the cusp of whatever grid we have here in Pittsburgh. I think I'll go turn off my air conditioning.
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
I expect Bush to adress Congress tomorrow. He will tell them that the US needs to be able to provide for its own strategic electricity supply. Airco is a national security priority. Therefore Canada will be annexed by the end of the week.
Canadians that object will be labelled terrorists and put in camps where they will be working on new pipelines, new electricity lines and clearing out forrests. All others canadians will be subjected to pay the USA's debt as a thanks for now becoming part of the world's oldest democracy.
Use Adsense for Charity
Didn't anyone notice the time the blackout happened? 4:11pm! That's 4-11! OH MY GOD! THE TERRORISTS WANT INFORMATION!
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
for a terrorist who goes by the name 'Trinity'.
four-oh-four
I feel sorry for the last guy to plug something in when the overload occured. Can you imagine plugging your toaster in and taking down power for the east coast? I'd feel pretty guilty about it, unless I meant to do it, in which case I would feel 1337.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
Niagara Mohawk Website
Supposedly the electric company that started it all.
Well, the NYSE has tons of backup generators. A friend of mine just sent an email from the floor, and she reports that at least the AC and computers are working.
We know you are lying. Slashdotters don't know any girls.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
That was a great demo: "Hey, watch it shut itself down when I pull out the plug!"
???
John
This article from Reuters explains a little:
New York Official Says Power Grid Overloaded -CNN
Thu August 14, 2003 05:04 PM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A New York State official said the Niagara Mohawk power grid overloaded on Thursday, causing a massive power outage, CNN reported, and New York Major Michael Bloomberg said it was likely a natural occurrence. "It may be well into the evening before power comes back on," Bloomberg told the U.S. cable television network. He said smoke from a Consolidated Edison Inc. plant in the city was due to the plant's automatic shutdown, not to a fire, as had been reported. He said, "I can tell you 100 percent sure that there is no evidence as of this moment whatsoever of any terrorism." A massive power outage swept across swaths of the eastern United States and Canada on Thursday, leaving sections of New York, Detroit, Cleveland and Toronto without electricity, witnesses said. It was not immediately clear whether the Niagara Mohawk problem caused the wider outage.
I'm typing from 30 miles southwest of Boston. I've heard reports that Boston is affected; but here in the suburbs, we're not having any problems.
It's worth noting that, no matter what caused the initial problem: The results we're seeing are exactly what happens when the populace fails to concern itself with potential problems. We Americans, even today, suffer from a serious case of "It'll-never-happen-to-me." Experts have warned for years that our power grids had dangerous "pressure points," where small problems could cause massive failures.
Unfortunately, when we hear the phrase "potential problem," we hear the first word and never bother to listen to what follows. "If it's not a sure bet, why worry about it?" Well...here's why.
crib
Please don't read my journal
there will be a baby boom next june.
Have fun folks
Of some interest, the internet in North America seems not to have been affected much.
Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
Seriously, major failures of interconnected electric distribution systems are usually very complex events and it takes a long time to track down the root causes.
sPh
Oh please, won't somebody think about the children!
Blah.
inside this building there is a level where no elevator can go and no stair can reach. This level is filled with doors. These doors lead to many places, hidden places, but one door is special. One door leads to the source...etc... Now that the power is out we have only five minutes to find the door on that floor.
The power company obviously had Linux running and had to pull the plug because of SCO.
oh, and I blame SARS as well.
Cause thats what Im doing RIGHT NOW :-D
btw I thought they where supposed to fix this bullshit when the power went out in the 70's??? if the same thing happened AGAIN who dropped the ball on retrofitting the power supply to let it grow with the rest of the usage
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
I guess we have short memories, since something similar happened on the West Coast in the mid 90s.
I believe it was either 1995 or 1996, IIRC.
Power was out for hours throughout California and parts of Oregon and Washington (I believe parts of Arizona and Nevada were affected as well).
It sucked, but it wasn't the end of the world.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
If there had been some X class flares, it would be possible; but spaceweather is only showing a max of a C3 [not really bug] in the last six hours. C6 in the last 24.
With only C level flares, I really doubt it is the flares. They would have had the X level listed if it happened.
Aparently all of foxnews.com's updaters are in in the NE. Their site hasn't been updated since a few min before the blackout started.
Good thing we are getting our info from CNN
Watch what happens in the wake of this... every news program on the planet is going to talk about how "inadequate" the power system is and how we need MORE, MORE, MORE power. Nowhere will you likely hear anything in the mainstream about CONSERVATION. That's a four-letter word in the eyes of the current hyper-consuming society.
If you want to watch the MSNBC web feed without using their crappy IE popup, use media player to openr eam.ne t/D/1181/8828/v0001/reflector:23180
http://a1181.l882824180.c8828.g.lm.akamaist
(no spaces in there)
Incompetence strikes again. Welcome to the first world, where croynism, nepotism and patronism rule.
Isn't it great how billions will be lost but the responsible, well paid, people will be nowhere to be found.
Isn't it funny why we never question leadership?
This isn't the first time folks: The Great Northeast Blackout of 1965
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
Check out NE power grid real time info, it shows a MAJOR drop off in current flow to NYC at around 4:15, and it's still declining ...
Real Time Market External Interface Summary
If this thing goes on into the night, I'd put money on a baby boom in the area 9 months from now. :P
~Laserone
http://www.LaserBlog.com
- Hot day with tons of ACs running. Check.
- The "magic smoke" being released from one or more power substations. Check.
- Instant power shutdown as a domino effect of overloaded substations occure. Check.
Really, this isn't even the first time something like this has happened at NYC (and surrounding area). A huge power outage just like this happened in 1977. Also, just a couple of years ago several STATES lost power for a short while.Let's all turn on our lights at 4:13pm.... shh... don't tell anyone
</tinfoilHat>Actually, I understand that most dams (floodgates only) in North America are powered by Windows NT based software. They are not internet connected but have remote dial-up. The FBI's InfraGuard program has fixed what used to be a gaping security problem, where once you found the number you could dial straight in to the damn's control computer. In fact, this happened once before in 1998 as this article mentions. The software is called SCADA and was, iirc, developed at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
Anyone else notice the web seems a lot faster without all those eastcoasters takin all the bandwidth? ;)
no comment
CNN just spewed the same speculative garbage.
Let's preview the baseless speculation that we'll likely hear in the next hour or so as 24-hour news pundits rush to scare the crap out of the public in their overzealous attempt to add more color to the simple news item that they intend to milk for all its worth over the next day:
* CNN interviews a taxicab driver whose cousin thinks this may be the work of Saddam Hussein
* Fox "confirms" the "terrorist attack" using as evidence, an unnamed "washington insider" noticing a dark-skinned man walking down the hallway of an unspecified building seconds prior to the outage.
* Red Cross is immediately planning "Power Aid 2003" featuring an all-new remake by Vicki Lawrence of "The Night the Lights Went Out in George" - proceeds of $100 billion are expected, $11.43 of which will actually be used to improve the power grid.
Why in the world is it engineered that way?
In the event of a large scale failure, you can have huge surges and sags in the power grid. The effect then spreads out over the grid and reaches other power stations and equipment. Those systems see it for the problem it is and automatically shutdown to avoid damage. ("Shutdown" might be a bit of a euphemism; it could be something as simple as a very large fuse blowing.) We are talking about systems with hundreds of thousands of volts and an ungodly current capacity here. It's one thing if your CRT gets hit with a surge and smokes. At a major power plant, it could be like a bomb going off. Far better to have a major outage that takes a few hours to clean up, then a cascade failure that does lasting damage everywhere.
It is also worth pointing out that Niagara Falls provides a huge amount of power to the surrounding regions. A failure there could mean a serious loss of capacity.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
I was on IRC when this happened, 8 people timed out. I thought, wtf a netsplit? But my channel has only one server. So I figured something big was going down.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
The mayor said there was no fire, that it was black smoke brought on by an automatic shutdown because of the power grid failure.
Actually the smoke was from the Mayor's handlers trying to spin the fire story so as not to cause panic.....
I think it would have been better for the Mayor's minister of dis-information to have done this on television with a flaming transformer in the background.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
Somebody is so fired.
You have a choice: tax and spend Democrats, or borrow and spend Republicans. Choose wisely.
No.
There would be no cars or anything else working if it was a pulse weapon. Not to mention if the pulse was large enough to take down an area that large a goodly portion of the organic material around the target site would most likely be incinerated.
Y2k and terrorism are no where near as catastrophic as simple bad planning and lackadaisical execution.
Most UPS systems won't power an aquarium filter for long, but you can use an UPS to power an air-pump. An airstone on the end will keep water circulating, preventing any O2 problems in the tank.
The other problem a power outage causes is that the bacteria in the filter that do the bio-filtration will die during the power outage, and when the power restarts, all the waste will get pumped into the tank.
So, power an airstone from an UPS (or get a simple and cheap battery powered airpump), and break-down and clean the filter so that when it comes back on, it doesn't pollute the tank.
When THEY go 2 straight weeks without power in the heat, like all of my city (memphis TN) just had to deal with a few weeks ago, then I'll read the story. I could care less if a bunch of people have to reset their clocks.
Hot damn! You're right! And, to think, the chance of any given date being within a month of September 11th is a whopping 1 out of 6!
That's the same chance you have of rolling a '1' on a single six-sided die!
Wow! Mind boggling improbable!
Conserving power is ludicrous. There is an unlimited supply of power in the Universe. Why should we even *consider* conserving it?
We need MORE POWER NOW! I want cheaper, more reliable power. I want a nuclear plant next to my house, better yet, in my basement, for my own personal power usage.
Conserving water, makes sense, we only have so much h2O, although it'd be better to invest in purifying our current supply and recycling water.
So, again, WHY? WHY SHOULD WE CONSERVE POWER????? WHY WHY WHY????
my power bill is $180-200. I keep my house at 72-75F, even when it's 105F outside. IF the power company gets 35% more expensive here then it will be cost effective to generate my own using propane and a generator.
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
Can somebody pick me up a TiVo when the looting begins? I'll pay for shipping.
Everybody Wang-Chung tonight!
Forget that: It's not funny because we're in the middle of a serious heatwave, and these power outages are going to put large numbers of people, particularly the elderly, at risk. Electricity is far more vital to people's lives than, "It lets me read Slashdot."
I imagine just before the power outage, a conversation like this happened:
Engineer 1: Are you SURE it's a good idea to overclock the generators? I don't think Moore's law was meant to apply to electricity...
Engineer 2: Of COURSE it's a good idea. We've been at 60Hz since forever! If we bump it up to 90Hz, just think how much faster our coffee maker will go! I did the math last night, it'll be safe
Engineer 1: But in your calculations, you round pi to 3.1, you assume plank's constant to be 2, and this part under what appears to be penut butter says "magic squirrels = good!" And I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be using a rock as an overclocking tool...
Engineer 2: Hey, if Edison listened to that kind of negative talk, would he have ever single-handedly build the space shuttle and flown to the Sun?
A man who can't pronouce "nuclear arsenal" shouldn't have one -sig ends here.
"There are no power outages, you are being subjected to the lies of the infidels. As I speak, my wife is in the tanning salon and my aquarium fish are doing just fine".
See chart
http://www.cmpco.com/about/system/blackout.html
A power outage in August?!? It must be terrorists, since during the hottest month of the year there's no reason to use much electricity.
end sarcasm
Bush et al have got you people afraid of your own shadows. Sad, really, though still funny.
This collapse was predicted years and years ago. When I was working for a power equipment manufacturer (transformers, relays, switches, capacitors), marketing was playing this sort of thing up to the utilities.
As equipment gets old it becomes less and less efficient. This includes the transformers that bring the power from high voltages to low voltages to your home, and the generators that produce the power. AND it includes all those Air conditioners that are running in hot weather.
No-one has been able to afford to bring new generators online recently. And probably not to upgrade/replace old less efficient equipment. And I'm sure most people haven't bought new ACs either because of the economy.
It wasn't so long ago that something similar happened to Chicago during a heat wave there. And we all remember a few years ago that California had rolling blackouts because the grid couldn't handle the power. And NYC suffered similar blackouts for the same reason in the 60s and 70s I believe.
Unfortunately since its such a large grid its going to take a while for it to come back up. You have lots and lots of main power generators. Each one has to be brought back onto the grid one at a time. Each one has to be synced to the current AC 3 phase system within 5-10 degrees of what's there or when that generator comes on it might cause all the generators to drop out. Syncing a generator takes time and patience.
Then you have to bring the consumers back on. Every time you bring a new section on you have a hell of alot of inrush current as Air Conditioners and motors start up. This is why your lights dim a bit when you turn on certain pieces of equipment. Imagine the dimming you get as 1000 Air conditioners come on at once. If its too much a relay might trip off and the grid might collapse under the strain as a generator falls offline. And yes this is a real meaning to the word offline, the generator is not on the power lines anymore.
It will take time for everything to come back up, and con-ed isn't going to rush it. They will take it up in stages, make sure that everything is ready to go before bringing up the next stage. A collapse this large can happen again and again if they rush. But it might be quicker, the reports don't saay how big the failure was and how many generators fell offline. It could just be that all the distribution substations tripped, but I doubt it. For this to be so widespread the generator protection relays probably all fired off and took their generators off the power grid.
Don't you just love cascading failures? Overloaded power grid; all the generators are close to their shut off point. One fails, all generators go into the range of shutoff, and off they go one right after the other. They probably all fell offline withing 30 seconds, and will probably take 3 days to come back on fully.
Software Engineer & Writer of Military Science Fiction and Fantasy Blog: petermwright.com Twitter: WrightPeterM
As anyone who saw the first episode of James Burke's original series Connections or the comedy movie Canadian Bacon would know, this is not first time New York has been involved in a major blackout. "While the [power] grid, which remains intact today, has proven to be highly effective, the night of November 9, 1965 serves as a reminder..." (Scroll down to the paragraph that starts with "At 5:27 p.m., November 9,")
If someone else has better links, please post them. This is just the first one I found.
Furry cows moo and decompress.
CNN is now reporting (5:45 PM EST) that it is a possibility (note- possibility, not confirmation) that the worm that's been going around may have played a role in this blackout. Granted, it's probably pure speculation, but the possibility has been noted. One purely speculative question- if the worm's ability to interfere with MS boxes, would Microsoft be liable for any damages from the blackout? Just a thought... Wishing the best for anyone who's trapped in this situation. I'm in South Jersey, 20 minutes outside Philly, and I've got full power. I'd hate to be caught in the subways or elevators right now in NYC.
More of my rant:
http://www.mailtown.org/geeklog/article.php?story= 20030814144536624
-ted
Someone has to pay when the City That Never Sleeps takes a nap.
A man who can't pronouce "nuclear arsenal" shouldn't have one -sig ends here.
Anyone running off of battaries charged via solar, wind, etc. who is in an effected area? I don't mean generators either, I imagine there is at least *one* person who is perhaps running a couple energy efficient bulbs from a modified stationary bicycle and I'd like to hear from them :)
There is also the Enron factor. A couple of years back when Cheney gave Enron the green light to manipulate the California energy market California was making deals to buy any capacity it could
During the period the market was being manipulated the cover story was that it was California's fault for not allowing new plants to be built. Power plants have a major lead time so the only way to get generator sets for new power plants to be built in the West was for NYC to give up the generator sets for a bunch of gas turnbine systems planned to be deployed in the East.
Thank Bush, Cheney and their big friend 'Kenny boy' Lay for putting the interests of Enron before the national interest. First they screwed California and now NYC may well be getting hit by the unexpected results.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
its machines u fools... they r taking their revenge. man vs. machine --- fight to death. They started with our most important weapon POWER!!
my computer started behaving abnn92u54092q what the 555o845090234211!!
hE3[3=[3[[[p
bin
look siG is kool
Both Barabasi's Linked and Duncan Watt's Six Degrees have interesting stories about how small failures can snowball into large failure like this one apparently is.
Of course, here in the midwest I'm sure everthing will be just fi
What I find really amusing is that this same situation occured almost fifty some-odd years ago when a transistor went bad up at the Niagra Power station and NY and Toronto (The biggest cities) were without power for some god-awful amount of time. That I find amusing.
Actually with Mars being so close it will give people in big cities a very rare chance to see this site without all the light polution by which they are normally surrounded.
Now for a quick opinion on air conditioning. Is it just me, or have people confused refrigeration with air conditioning? Crikey. I walk into some large supermarkets, stores, restaurants, etc., and I have to watch my appendages for frostbite. Where I work, the hotter it is outside, the colder it is inside. Some staff have resorted to wearing sweaters, sweatshirts, and run space heaters!
It's just my opinion, but if you can't live at least around 72 degrees (and is a dry, conditioned 75 that bad?), then you should consider a move beyond the polar circles for the summer.
The baby boom bit is an urban legend
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
My computer rebooted unexpectedly. I can't tell what the reason was, so I guess I can't rule out terrorism at the current time.
The local show store didn't get its shipment of Reebox DMX walking shoes on time. No one is certain exactly why the shipment is late. So I guess they can't rule out terrorism...
Do you get a general idea of where I am going with this?
--- Biffster.org
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
Actually it was a hysterical thing to say and regardless of your situation the humor bit has to do with the stupid 9-11 conspiracy theories...not the attacks themselves.
Lighten up.
My blog: http://jkratz.dyndns.org/~jason/blog/
A rough esitmate of the people in the area affected is probably between 30 and 50 million. When the power went off, most of them didn't go around turning off their light switches, TVs, air conditioners or whatever else was running. Not to mention traffic lights, street lights, subways etc.
So even if the power is fixed or alternate sources are routed in, turning the lights back on is really hard. It may take a while, even if they already fixed the original problem.
But blackouts aren't all bad. In the 1965 NYC blackout, My dad walked five miles across Manhattan to check on my Mom, and ended up proposing. So all you east coasters, pull the batteries from those laptops, check on your friends and neighbors, and go make some stories to tell your kids, when in happens again in another thirty - forty years.
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.
Reporter Shepard Smith at JFK airport said over the Fox News network that airport maitainance workers were delayed in fixing the generator because they were initially denied access to it because they could not be cleared to access the generators without the metal detectors being powered.
Thats just the problem, I dont believe the news, the news is getting to be so far right of far left, that its too political to believe. I get my information from the internet.
I do not believe some gov official just because they say its so, I need evidence, I need to see an expert tell me what happened, not the mayor.
I actually dont get my news from NPR because I know its slanted just like fox news. Instead I actually gather my own evidence and decide for myself.
I dont understand why people get mad when a person asks questions about what happened. So its not terrorism? Well what is it?
IF the government is so clear that its not terrorism they should also be the first to tell us what exactly happened, or else they shouldnt make a statement at all until they KNOW what happened.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I've read that the stability of large power grids is still a poorly understood problem. Normally they are reliable, but what happens when they are already running close to the limit of safe operation and a major generating facility goes off line?
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
It would be more of an inconvinience attack. But not being able to use our computers, to us slashdotters... a terrorist attack.
We have the livenews for the power outages back on (just like we did with all the other top stories, like the "War on Terrorism") and 9/11. It's the CNN feed.
It's available on: irc.striked.org #livenews
Top headlines: "Microsoft knocks out east coast power grid to prevent DDoS attack on windowsupdate.com"
Free means no restrictions, ironic the FSF's GPL forces restrictions, isn't it? What's your definition of free?
They finally found a way to take down a lot of all those evil pirates all at the same time! Haha, too bad I'm in the Southeast!
I know it sounds strange, but I'm sort of sorry that I'm not in New York for this (I moved to Boston 25 years ago). Yes, I know that it's a monstrous pain in the ass for everyone and even has the potential for injury and loss of life (e.g., heart attack from climbing stairs), but both blackouts I've been in ('65 and '77) were interesting experiences.
I was five years old for the first one and scared out of my wits when the lights went out. It was an early evening in November, around 5:30 PM, and I was sitting on the kitchen floor, watching TV (the Winchell-Mahoney hour). Lights, television, even the streetlamps outside went out. My first thought: "Mommmmmmmmm!!!!!".
We ended up walking over to my aunt's house a couple of blocks away and eating the cake that my mother had baked that day. That was our dinner. Blackout cake. She never made it again after that, but I remember with all the flickering candles it seemed like someone's birthday.
My father got stuck on the subway for 36 hours, though. Bummer for him.
When the '77 blackout hit, I was living with my father on the 15th floor of a building on East 96th St. I'd just gotten home from my summer job and turned on the radio. The DJ was complaining about the turntables running too fast (overcompensating for low voltage?). Looking out my bedroom window, I saw the blackout roll uptown: the Empire State Building went out first, then the rest of Midtown, the Upper East Side, and then us. It was a hot, humid night and you could see the occasional flash of heat lightning.
I checked on my neighbors, an elderly couple, before heading down to the street, where I bartered a couple of cold beers for a handful of candles. People were bewildered, wondering if the Indian Point nuclear plant had blown, or if the Rooskies were attacking. It took about an hour for the looting to start north of us and for most of the night there was an endless parade of NYPD patrol cars headed uptown, four or five cops in each, all in full riot gear.
I don't want to downplay the millions of dollars of damage that happened that night, but my neighborhood was pretty peaceful. It was like an instant block party, people sharing food and beer and the occasional joint, oldtimers (I guess that's me now) talking about the '65 Blackout (which, like today, started at the Mohawk grid and covered roughly the same area).
Fifteen flights up was nothing for me back then; I ran track in high school.
A couple of years ago my neighborhood in Boston lost power for 36 hours. Nothing big, maybe 25,000 households, but I was bereft. No cable, no Internet, just a battery-operated radio and, of course, candles. Off the grid.
But it was educational. I never realized how dependent I was on technology and the network, how much of my time is spent in front of the silicon devils (TV and computer). Thirty hours with nothing but books and an acoustic guitar for entertainment. When the power came on, the first thing I did was fire up a web browser. It was like a refreshingly cool shower of meaningless information after having to sit and stew with my thoughts.
Shit. I think I'll go to the basement and throw the main breaker. Just for old time's sake.
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
You all forgot administrators that haven't applied the patch - they will be the first to blame and M$ will pull out as usual
Regards, Prime
Of course you realize I had no intention of offending.
How about this instead:
"The North Eastern Power grid went down faster than Ben Affleck at a strip club!"
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
1) Generators run their units with minimal loads
to keep in sync, so that when it's
time to ramp up, sync is not an issue.
Mostly true.
Gas turbine plants are made for peaking, and can supply whatever is demanded within a second or two- but their capacity is limited.
Many of the baseline load plants, steam plants, take sometime to change power output. Nuclear power plants are the worst.
I just started working at a nuclear powerplant, so my understanding may not be fully up to speed, but here's what I know so far:
When our plant is disconnected from the grid (not easy, because we have three lines running out on seperated paths, but it happened last year), we have a whole lot of energy in the system, and no place to put it- so we trip the plant. that basically means that the control rods drop into the core within seconds of being disconnected from the grid, and the plant starts to cool down.
We have in-house diesels to safely shut down the plant with, but they can't put out the voltage or power required to run the largest motors in the plant, which are needed to start power generation back up. Essentially, we need to be connected to the grid to start and run the plant.
These large motors, combined with everything else, use up about 3% of our plant capacity. I don't think we can run at 3% capacity, but I'm not positive. Basically, even if we knew ahead of time we where to be disconnected, I don't think we could ramp down the plant far enough to run only house loads off the main generator.
Short version:
1) A nuclear power plant can't start or run without being connected to the grid.
2) Once connected, they take about a day to get up to full power output.
3) Nuke power plants are typically a grid baseline load- meaning they're the last to have to cut production in the face of reduced demand. Nuke plants account for 20% of our electrical consumption.
2) The grid doesn't have to be brought up with
all generators and exchanges linked, they
can be brought up as islands and rejoined later.
4) Generators can only keep in sync when the grid is there to sync to. If the grid is disconnected, one plant starts, and everyone syncs to that. But I don't believe it takes very long to sync, maybe minutes. Though it is possible that if it's only one plant per 'island' they could drag the sync back to match with other islands.
That's all based on the assumption that other plants work roughly the same as Seabrook Station in Seabrook, NH. I do not claim authorative knowledge.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
Are you really that Stupid, or are you just another Republican shirker? I bet you are the latter.
FACT: The power plants existed, ENRON and other electricity brokers flat out refused to allow those plants in California to be started, even when the rolling blackouts became a daily event throughout the Bay Area and Southern CA. Even when The Governor of California went to ask the White House to intervene, Bush/Cheney backed ENRON, even though all the evidence pointed to the fact that the supply was being heavily manipulated. This was PROVEN when ENRON finally collapsed under the weight of its own debt.
FACT: ENRON manipulated the market, with falsified transfers of power out of the State, then back into the state, and totally falsifying their records, DELIBERATLY to reflect transactions, then charging the State for all the transactions involved at a cost approximatly 4000 times the original contract cost. This cost the State nearly 40 BILLION dollars, and the odd thing, thats almost exactly the same amount of money California is in the hole for, and the GOP is using as a lame excuse for a recall. Pete Wilson, a former GOP Governor is heading the campaign to put Arnold in the Governors office in Sacremento. He is also the man who pushed for the State Electricity utilities to be "deregulated", (that means sold off to the highest bidder) The only single person that should take the blame is Wison, not Davis. Davis was not even in public office when the Utility was sold to ENRON.Get your facts right man, or just quit lying about things.
Stupid Humans.....
I could believe it too. In power stations running Windows there is a well known error reporting device known to insiders as the "BSOD," or "Black Smoke of Death."
If power plants ran Windows, I think we'd see outages every few hours at least.
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
I've been wondering for a long time what it would be like if lots of people had solar power on their homes. And whether or not this kind of thing could be lessened if we could create a parallel power grid. Who care's if mine goes down for minute, I can just borrow some power from my next door neighbor. Implementation is left as an exercise for the reader.
It's a gift. Some folks might actually be able to see Mars tonight. This will be the first time in ~40 years that some will get to see the heavens!
Enjoy!
Stoptional
When you don't buy a SCO license!!!
The power outage shut down nuclear power plants??? What the hell are those things for?
Short answer: If they have no place to put all the power they generate, they have to shut down.
My plant generates 1207 Mega-watts (which rounds to 1.21 gigawatts... hehhehe), and we only use 40 MW for in house loads- about three percent of our total output. We cannot ramp output from 1207 MW to 40 MW instantly, if we can at all (I'm new, so I still have much to learn. The only option, then , is to unplug everything and blow as much of the energy into the ultimate heat sink (ocean) quickly.
Once the plant goes offline, it takes about a day to start back up again- and we can't start without being connected to the grid, because our diesels only put out 12 MW at 4160 Volts. This is enough to shut down the plant safely, but far short of the 40MW (most of it at 13600 Volts) needed to run the seven big motors that are needed for circulating the reactor coolant and dumping waste heat into the ocean. Even if we could run off of only one waste heat and one reactor coolant motor, we'd still have to hook up the plant wiring in a creative way to do that, and it would take a long time to convince the NRC that was a good idea.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
Aritle Link
Japanese news sources have gone on record that the catastrophic power failure that has stricken New York and other major metropolitan areas in the Eastern U.S. have nothing to do with Godzilla. Sources in Japan are claiming that Godzilla was safe on Monster Island and the hard stomping lizard monster was not involved in the blackout.
According to one spokesman at the JGL news service, Gogi Asobi, "Godzilla and all of the monsters, including Mothra and King Kong were all safe behind our defenses on Monster Island." This has ended speculation earlier in the day that either terrorism or Godzilla had been behind the blackout.
Rumors started flying shortly after the blackout that there was a possible link between Al-Qaeda and Godzilla when black smoke in the shape of a mosque were seen billowing from a power plant at 14th Street and Avenue C in Manhattan. Eyewitnesses had reported that at the same time the head of Godzilla could be seen in the East River, and that in fact he could be seen holding a shoulder mounted surface to air missile. New York Mayor Blooberg could not be reached for comment.
Watching nightly news on one of the major networks, they actually discussed this topic, and that the outage could have been done by hackers.
The gist of the discussion came from that 3 weeks ago Power Authorities met and acknowledged that there was a security threat from their systems connected to the net. During that meeting, they set up some new guidelines to regulate the software that controls the power grids to make them more secure, and to take them off the internet. He said, however, those new regulations had not taken affect yet.
Now this is a far stretch, and I think they even acknowledged this, but nevertheless the topic was discussed.
Another possibility they said that could also of happened, instead of computer hacking, radio hacking. The power control centers are connected by radio, and it wouldn't be hard to override those signals.
Interesting thoughts, but I still doubt these possibilities could ever happen.
"Hack the Planet!"
Let the Zionist infidels bask in their illusion, but I triple guarantee you: there are absolutely NO power problems at all in the Five Boroughs.
I am not scared, and neither should you be! We will defeat the enemy spreading such rumors and use their own shoes to butcher them!
Real Iraqi Information Minister QuotesYou're right. There is no such thing as American culture.
I thought the "grid" was, basically, composed of consumers and producers of energy. I know that there is a balancing act between supply, demand, and the requirement to balance the loads within line segments, but it was my understanding that as long as there were consumers for your energy then you could generate it.
That's an oversimplification, I know. But I don't understand this case: A major power producer goes offline, but the consumers don't. Why can't the remaining producers take up at least some of the slack?
www.howstuffworks.com might have some good information, but I don't have any direct links.
The grid is composed of three parts: producers, transmission, and consumers.
Now when a major plant goes offline, typically other plants do take up the slack, so you've got the right idea. For example, in October, Seabrook station will go offline for refueling, and no one will notice, because we're paying other plants to generate the electricity we committed to. The excess peaking capacity of the grid goes down, so there's a smaller margin for peaks, but brownouts are largely avoided.
Now in comes the transmitters: It's often referred to as 'The national electric grid' but that's not quite correct. The system is capable of transmitting power from Maine to California, and Florida to Toronto, but there's a lot of sub-grids with sometimes minor connections between them, and these are typically open- there might be a small connection for keeping sync, so they can close on demand.
Each inter-grid connection can only carry so much current- the lines would heat up and start to sag, substations would catch on fire, that sort of thing. This can't really be tolerated, so when a connection's capacity is overloaded, the breakers pop open and the 'donor' grid just gives a big 'fuck off' to the recieving grid.
So when this happens, it starts to ask even more of the other grids it's connected to, increasing the chance that it will cause an overcurrent trip on these other lines.
These connections can also be manually opened and closed by the grid controllers- in NH, the control room is in manchester, and I think it's run by a company called ISO. An overcurrent trip may require a lineman to visit the substation in question, i'm not sure.
Now, every plant except nuke plants runs lower than it's actual capacity to keep some peak demand reserve, so in general, they can pick up the slack when one goes down. Each powerplant does have it's limit, though. If demand on a particular plant exceeds it's capacity, the voltage will drop, and the plant will likely trip on undervoltage, or a grid connection might trip, or the plant operators might shut the plant down to preserve the equipment. (Most things in my powerplant like to run at one-steady state speed. Since voltage is proportional to speed, lower voltage means the main generator and turbine slow down. I won't go into the details, but suffice it to say, it's no fun)
Shutting down one plant will of course increase demand on other plants. So I'm sure you can see by now that once a cascade starts, things can really start to go to shit.
This is ideally avoided by having ridiculously over-rated transmission lines, and grid excess generation capacity well above the output of any one or two or three plants. However, I don't think we've really beefed up our transmission lines since the 70's or 80's, and new powerplants are often stalled or killed by NIMBY's and groups like greenpeace who haven't the slightest clue how a nuke plant works, how it's different from a bomb, and how many robust safety systems there are between the radiation and the public.
We've been setting ourselves up for problems for sometime now. It's time to build new power plants, and beef up transmission lines, cause demand sure as hell won't recede.
Corrections to my statements are welcomed from people with more than my meager two months in the power industry.
**Nuke plants typically run at full power
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
1 - Fair 'nuff. no probs there.
2 - Yes, its true that outsiders of the USA find it hard to understand why Americans are often so big on guns. "Culture" are socially transmitted partterns of behaviour. American society is big on guns. So it is a gun culture. I'm not saying thats a bad thing, or not thought out, or that it has no reason or rationality behind it. But it is part of your culture. Perhaps instead of condemning outsiders who ask, you could educate them.
In Australia we have the "Tall Poppy Syndrome". Outsiders often find this difficult to understand. If you ask me what it is...I have no probs telling you what it is, and why we do it. I wouldn't attack you for asking. It is a big part of our culture and national identity.
(BTW..its cutting down anyone who's head sticks up too far. We have legit reasons it...at times.)
What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" do you not understand
I'm not attacking your right to bear arms. I was asking about why that right was given.
no big deal.
Maybe my wording was unclear- Nuke plants do produce about 20% of the power we consume.
m
There are only 104 nuclear powerplants in the US, you're right on that.
However, These plants have 1-3 reactors at each site, each producing roughly a gigawatt of electricity- enough for a million homes.
So you've got at a minimum, 150 gigawatts output of just these 100 powerplants. Take your electricity bill, and figure out your average hourly kilowatt usage. Now divide 150 GW by your average consumption.
Do you still think I'm wrong? Or does it kinda look like nuclear power could run every home in the United states by itself? (Of course, if we wanted to run businesses and industry, we'd have to bring all the other plants back on.)
check
http://www.nei.org/ http://science.howstuffworks.com/nuclear-power.ht
http://www.seabrookstation.com
Seabrook is where I work, and How stuff works says 15% for the US, the US department of energy says 18.6%, both of which are close enough to the 20% I stated.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
I gotta admire the stamina, to be able to do the hottie (incidentally this is a word for hot water bottle round here), and hump the water cooler in the same panic.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
Our air conditioner just clicked back on and I'm getting reports that power is restored to big swaths of Central New York...
The Right Reverend K. Reid Wightman,
A long range video down a stretch of road in NYC with lots of traffic lights as the power comes back on. :-)
Slashdot - The one stop shop for procrastination
Every normal shutdown procedure should come complete with billowing clouds of black oily smoke.
Nothing to see here, move along.
Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.
From what I've seen on TV coverage, they showed the source of the black smoke. Looked to me like a refinery or something with the safety flare-off stacks burning. I live in the heart of petrochemical alley down along the southern Mississippi River, and believe me, whenever there is a widespread power failure, they all do the same thing.
There are many stages to the processes that turn oil into gasoline, plastics, and other petrochemical products. Whenever there is an upset to the process, such as a power failure, complex systems (on backup power, of course) are designed to shut down the plant in a controlled manner to prevent a catastrophe, and many times that involves venting unprocessed flammables to safety flare-offs to be burned off.
About 7 years ago, a transformer failed at a major substation over by where I live, plunging a large area into darkness. Within seconds, a series of loud explosions were heard at a nearby plastics plant. People living in the area were panicking because they thought that the plant blew up, but the TV and radio newscasters calmly explained (to those who could recieve the broadcasts) that it was part of the safety shutdown procedure, that the loud booms were caused by safety pop-off valves and what looked like burning Iraqi oil wells was the safety flare-off stacks burning.
thanks for the insight into different gun "groups" or "cultures" in the US.
Okay...I'm curious. Why would cut down anyone "who's head stick up too
good question!
Rosey Golds, a social commentator for ABC radio (Australian Broadcasting Commission) says:
"The tall poppy syndrome expressed our great reluctance to defer to authority figures (and thus establish a new class system) and our abhorrence towards a society predicated on the worship of money. We mocked the desire to impress. There was a great Australian proverb used to describe the wealthy graziers who came down from the country on holiday breaks flaunting their Akubras - the wider the brim the smaller the property "
We do it because of our background. We are by nature very cynical of authority figures. Many friends of mine in the USA think they are cynical of their political figures...but they haven't seen Australian cynicism. We often give our pollies no respect at all.
A certain amount if cynicism is good. But not too much. Another advantage of our "tall poppy syndrome" is that we treat people based on their substance...IE who they are...not how big a car they drive, what title they have, or other such social standings. In social interaction, we very rarely introduce ourselves with titles (IE Doctor, Professor, Coach, Reverend etc etc). Nor do use those titles (An exeption would be a doctor of medicine, but we would only call them doctor whilst at the hospital. At the pub we would call them Bruce). I was amazed once when visiting the states with my parents (My mum is a General Practicioner...ie a Doc). When shoping in a department store, people would call us "Sir" or "Maam" (Which is weird for us!). But when they saw Mum's credit card with "Dr" on their...we all of a sudden would get red carpet treament. Sales assistants would be there ready to help, calling her "Doctor". It was very strange, unheard of to get better treament because of your profession in Australia. When Dad visits the USA (or has colleauges visit him), every American calls him "Doctor" (He's got a PHD). I've never seen it happen here.
With all cultural things, there are often reasons why things happen that way...but as always too much can be very bad.
Sites you may find interesting is
this one. I found it using google, so haven't read it before (and thus may not agee exactly with what it says).
Mike
I've lived in Australia most my life, but have spent several years living in the USA and UK
Here's a link to guidelines to living off the grid. The most notable quote:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/power.htm/printabl e
A link to help us understand power grids...
Since you mentioned the blackouts in New York, I see two things happening. 1. Someone will make a song about it, probably a rip off of Billy Joel's Miami 2017. 2. In about 36-40 weeks, population along black out areas will experience a proliferation of births; experts will be baffled.
... after 10h to get out from there. I was lucky enough to find out about a bus going to Jersey City from the Ferry site, and from there I took a taxi to Harrison where I had taken the Path in the morning, and where I had my car parked.
The most shocking thing has been the total ausence of authorities any where. Basically, the presence of police controlling the situation was minimum. Also, it was impossible to get any reliable information from any transport official.
So I wasn't just dissapointed by seeing something like this happening but also by the reactions I saw from the authorities.
...temperature wise that is... online via GPRS modem card looking over the city of Toronto from the balcony... nothing but dark mass where buildings are, emergency beacons from office towers and condos and some contrails overhead from airplanes that have been flying. ...and stars in the night sky - an absolute rarity for any large city.
online - almost 1am Eastern Daylight Savings time and total blackout... gotta be something to say on that.
I am STILL in my rackspace. I was here when all the overhead lights went out.
First reaction: I see happy LEDs, whew.
Second Reaction: when the overhead lights came back on seconds later, you see 10 techs looking at their hands as if the ethernet cables they plugged in caused the problem! Funny.
This is the most comfortable place in Manhattan right now. Sleeping here on Sun cartons and bubble wrap in the AC due to zero transport home to CT.
Verio's got all generators working, and should weather this. For this I am eternally grateful. Let's take a moment to praise the folks who plan for this kind of problem in our data centers!
Guess what's on TV? (at 4:16 am, cbs channel 2)
Exactly what you said would not be:
"People are buying food and water for strangers when the shop keepers aren't just giving it away for free. People are taking in their friends and coworkers and giving them a place to stay for the night if they can't get home. People are sharing their cell phones so strangers can call home and let their families know they are alright. I saw a man walking with candles to the houses of older members of his church to make sure they were alright and had what they needed to make it through the night. What is going on right now is the true American spirit and it crosses all racial, social and economic lines."
A few major reasons. First and foremost, the Constitution was thought to be a document to goveron the nation for, at most, a generation or so. After that it would be scrapped, and rewritten as more appropiate to the times, (although I would be hard pressed to find something I like better). The Founding Fathers were concerned that THEY not some future despot would become drunk with power and try to oppress the people. Remember that we were less than ten years from a fairly bloody conflict with our (and your) parent nation.
The theory was that the people should have the ability (not necessarily the right) to overthrow the government, should it become necessary. Indeed history shows us that in most cases despots have first disarmed the populace:
The Founding Fathers had some very specific viewpoints about it as well.
There was legitimate fear that the government would become corrupt, and NEED to be overthrown because the people would be unable to remove the corrupt from power.
From our Declaration of Independence:
This is a small section of the document that many Americans actually feel is more important than the constitution. After all, there are several perfectly legitimate ways to organize a government. Furthermore, a constitution needs to change with the times.
Over the years how we have interpeted and taken this portion of the Declaration has changed. Now, we a
There is a civil war coming in the United States. Remember which side has most of the guns
I got an intern on a bike powering my laptop right now.
Adventure City Tours
august 15, 2003 - 9:56am (toronto)
here in toronto, there are portions of the city getting power.
where i am (college and dovercourt), there is still no power.
this was a rare opportunity to observe a city of people
without electricity.
a report of what it was like being here -- actually quite nice.
its the first time i've ever been able to see the stars at night
from inside the streets of toronto. the moon is just past full,
and mars sits there like a jewel to her lower right, with the
whole glittering firmament behind her. it was quite beautiful.
around 4:15pm yesterday, we were all at work, when the screens
in front of our faces went dark, and a big gasp and then a golden
moment of silence, and you could just hear some birds chirp, and
no more fans. then people were wandering about aimlessly -- like
unplugged borg. there was no more point in carrying on, since we
need our machines to produce anything, so the crew was soon packed-up
to go home.
since it was nice weather, the patios along king street the
street lights were out, it was little use trying to get anywhere
by car, so people started walking. at the intersections, some
people were still using light-driven habits, and many others
quickly negotiated intersections by looking across with glances.
its amazing how well people keep going without with simply the
communication provided by LOOKING. i could finally understand
the traffic dispersal patterns of old black and whitee photos
taken in times before traffic lights -- people wandering an
intersection, and negotiating the passage by glances is really
a good experience.
Comforts that were rare among our forefathers are now
multiplied in factories and handed out wholesale; and indeed,
nobody nowadays, so long as he is content to go without air,
space, quiet, decency and good manners, need be without
anything whatever that he wants; or at least a reasonably
cheap imitation of it. (G. K. Chesterton)
of course, i wish all the best efforts towards those helping
those who were stuck in elevators, or had emergency situations.
most of us just went down the stairs. one of the programmers
used the light on his gameboy to get down the ten flights.
those in cars were especially afflicted with bad traffic getting home.
but the phones were working, the water is working, and the weather
is fine. a lot of people used this time to start talking with their
neighbours. if you had a case of beer (which couldn't be bought --
since all the tills need power), then you were lucky.
yes, it was strange to see lights out on abandoned and stopped
street-cars, but since things were actually quiet in the middle of
the city for the first time in memory -- you could hear things better,
and you could hear a lot of people talking, and socializing and
laughing with people in the backyards -- many of them lit with
candles. riding bike along bloor street, there was a fellow in a
darkened shop window selling candles with a transistor radio on,
and that's how we found out it was the whole east coast.
you ask, is it the building? the block, the city? progressively
the scope of the blackout became known as people called relatives
outside the zone.
also of note -- it is a lot cooler without the air-conditioners.
without all the air-conditioners drawing power and producing heat,
the overall general OUTDOOR air-temperature is much cooler,
and everything is quite nice. we still don't have power,
so i've not ventured to ride my bike in to work yet.
but right now, the sun is shining, there's no loud droning of
air-conditioners all over the place, you can hear the morning
winds in the trees wafting, and birds chirping, and neighbours
walking around outside talking with each other. i hear they
have power now a couple blocks over from my section in the
downtown core -- maybe i'll be able to dail-in to slashdot,