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Mac OS X 10.2.8 Available

Transfan76 writes "The 10.2.8 Update delivers enhanced functionality and improved reliability for the following applications, services and technologies: Audio, Bluetooth, Classic compatibility, Finder, Graphics, LDAP, Power Management, Safari, and FireWire and USB device compatibility. The update also provides updated security services and includes the latest Security Updates." Does this have the update to ssh?

280 comments

  1. Yes. by Brazzo · · Score: 5, Informative
    %ssh -V
    OpenSSH_3.4p1+CAN-2003-0693
    Yes.
    1. Re:Yes. by raju1kabir · · Score: 2, Informative
      OpenSSH_3.4p1+CAN-2003-0693

      They're behind by one. See CAN-2003-0695.

      --
      "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
    2. Re:Yes. by fermion · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Well, I assumed the anti-mac frat boys would take mention this, but evidently the years of cheap beer and Dawson Creek has dulled their minds...

      I really must say that Apple putting a security patch and a feature update together in the same download is really horrible. We have been justifiable criticizing MS for doing the same things, and they finally got the message.

      With the Software Update interface in OS X such combinations are unnecessary. All updates are automatically checked, so there is no extra work for the average user if patches get delivered in 1 or 4 packages. For those who want only the security updates, a few clicks will remove the unneeded packages.

      This really bothers me because one thing that Apple does, and the reason I spend my money on Apples, and have for more years than I care to admit, is that they do try not to make the silly mistakes. Like forcing someone to download an Audio update onto a production box that never does audio.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    3. Re:Yes. by jeffasselin · · Score: 1

      If you're not happy, just install Fink, compile OpenSSH 3.7.1p1 and enable it instead of Apple's version.

      That's what a lot of us did.

      --
      If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
    4. Re:Yes. by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

      He's got a good point nonetheless. You should be able to maintain Apple machines for flexible purposes since they are selling them as flexible UNIX machines. It wouldn't be that hard for them to do this; add an "expert update" option to the preferences and most users will ignore it but the ones who really need it will be able to pick and choose what to update. They separate the iCal and QuickTime updates; why couldn't they do this with security patches? There should be an option to keep the machine secure without adding the potential instability of new features.

    5. Re:Yes. by gamgee5273 · · Score: 1
      Safari was also updated with this update - this was a pretty general package, all things considered.

      My suggestion is that people actually go to the feedback link and tell Apple what they would like...

    6. Re:Yes. by bash_jeremy · · Score: 1

      Apple wanted to keep the update simple. Yes, an expert update mode would be nice, but what would happen if a novice user (or a lot of them) accidently messed something up? In this case, I don't think the costs outweigh the benefits.

  2. Same as G5s by MBCook · · Score: 4, Informative

    Now, this update is NOT FOR G5 OWNERS. That said, does this update basically bring all G3s and G4s to the same as G5s (bugfix and feature/improvement wise, except for 1 or 2 very new ones), or is this above and beyond (since I know that G5s shipped with a newer version of OS X). Thanks.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    1. Re:Same as G5s by coolmacdude · · Score: 0

      Now, this update is NOT FOR G5 OWNERS.

      Why wouldn't it be for G5 owners? From Apple's description:

      "This software updates Mac OS X 10.2.6 or 10.2.7 to version 10.2.8."

      G5's are the only computers with 10.2.7.
      Why don't you try researching your information next time before posting something in all caps.
      You won't look so much like a dumbass.

      --

      -You may license this sig for only $6.99.
  3. Updated SSH by ZxCv · · Score: 1, Informative

    No official word on the updated SSH, but the version string has been changed from "OpenSSH_3.4p1" to "OpenSSH_3.4p1+CAN-2003-0693".

    Soooo, I'd have to guess that, yes, it is fixed.

    --

    Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
    1. Re:Updated SSH by Drew+Frezell · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's updated. Here is a link to the apple update log explaining the security updates. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=617 98 Drew

    2. Re:Updated SSH by LinuxMan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Wow! I went to that URL, and realized something pretty crazy, if you enter older article numbers, you can see some cool historical stuff. For example: Apple II+: Mini-Assembler (1 of 2) or Apple III: Emulation Mode--Controlling Bit 8 of the RS-232 Port. Kinda cool, though not exactly the topic of this article.

      Powerbook G4 1ghz

    3. Re:Updated SSH by geoffspear · · Score: 1

      You don't have to enter random article numbers; the entire Knowledgebase is searchable, too.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
  4. The SSH version by RalphBNumbers · · Score: 1, Informative

    Well, this has *an* update to ssh, I dunno if it's *the* update to ssh.

    The version string changes to:
    OpenSSH_3.4p1+CAN-2003-0693, SSH protocols 1.5/2.0, OpenSSL 0x0090609f

    From:
    OpenSSH_3.4p1, SSH protocols 1.5/2.0, OpenSSL 0x0090609f

    So it's still 3.4, but it looks like they added some patch.

    --
    "The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
    1. Re:The SSH version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      CAN-2003-0693 is the identifier for the buffer exploit that was all the rage last monday.

    2. Re:The SSH version by Graff · · Score: 5, Informative
      Well, this has *an* update to ssh, I dunno if it's *the* update to ssh.

      Yep, according to this technote it's *the* update to ssh:
      Mac OS X 10.2.8

      OpenSSH: Addresses CAN-2003-0693, CAN-2003-0695, and CAN-2003-0682 to fix buffer management errors in OpenSSH's sshd versions prior to 3.7.1

      sendmail: Addresses CAN-2003-0694 and CAN-2003-0681 to fix a buffer overflow in address parsing, as well as a potential buffer overflow in ruleset parsing.

      fb_realpath(): Fixes CAN-2003-0466 which is an off-by-one error in the fb_realpath() function that may allow attackers to execute arbitrary code.

      arplookup(): Fixes CAN-2003-0804. The arplookup() function caches ARP requests for routes on a local link. On a local subnet only, it is possible for an attacker to send a sufficient number of spoofed ARP requests which will exhaust kernel memory, leading to a denial of service.
  5. Safari by zonx+lebaam · · Score: 1

    Anyone find what the Safari improvements are yet?

    1. Re:Safari by rf600r · · Score: 1

      I'd like a list of improvemnets, too. "Includes several enhancements for Safari." doesn't quite lay it all out.

  6. YAY Update :) by Puggs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    OK, so how many of you Apple owners saw this, and reached instantly for the Software Update with glee?

    And how many thought the same when the latest Windows Bloat Patch ^W^WUpdate came along? not many? thought as much :)

    oh the joys of being a proud owner or a 12" PB.....

    hmm maybe I need to update my .sig - ... And Mac OS X just gets out of the way, letting you do what you wanted to do...

    1. Re:YAY Update :) by Otter · · Score: 5, Insightful
      OK, so how many of you Apple owners saw this, and reached instantly for the Software Update with glee?

      I dunno -- some of us who remember the iTunes updater fiasco like to wait a day or two before applying patches and updates. If there's a disaster out there, let it be someone else who stumbles across it. Same for Linux kernels, new versions in emerge (do I really need a new point release of awk this minute) and anything else.

      I mean, I get your point but Mac users do get burned too, and I'd rather it's you than me.

    2. Re:YAY Update :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      There are already about half a dozen spymac members who've been burned with this update. They've lost ALL their mail accounts after rebooting to 10.2.8.

      I'll be waiting until that's fixed

    3. Re:YAY Update :) by John+Harrison · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At least Mac users update eventually. Windows users (yes, I am one) apply even old patches in mortal fear that their machines will not function properly. After the last round of "updates" my machine is unable to copy & paste after it has been on for more than about 45 minutes. Another update eliminated the photo viewing tool that had been previously installed with the OS. I need to do a clean install and start over but there isn't time for it now. I will probably just "deal" until I get a new machine. Hopefully that will happen before the end of the year.

    4. Re:YAY Update :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh. I've NEVER had any problem with applying their updates to any of my systems.

    5. Re:YAY Update :) by drauh · · Score: 1

      And Mac OS X just gets out of the way, letting you do what you wanted to do...

      You mean, Windows is what has been preventing me from having anal sex with my girlfriend?!?

      --
      This is a tautology.
    6. Re:YAY Update :) by ffsnjb · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Am I the only one in the world who hasn't had to go through a clean install of Windows while going from 95A, through every upgrade including betas of 98, to 98SE - current patch set? This hard disk has been in 3 different machines during that time also. WTF is up with people that call themselves nerds and can't keep Windows working?

      --
      "Why do you consent to live in ignorance and fear?" - Bad Religion
    7. Re:YAY Update :) by Orbital+Sander · · Score: 2, Funny

      Another update eliminated the photo viewing tool that had been previously installed with the OS.

      That's not a bug, it's a DRM thing.

    8. Re:YAY Update :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yipee yeah for you. I have a dozen systems that hang for up to two minutes on right clicking the trash to empty it from the menu item. all win2k.

      wait. let me check my new 10.2.8 tash. yep. works like everything will. fast as hell. reliable. stable. predictable. secure.

      windows. bah. why in this thread? hell, we're REMOVING windows boxes from the office(s) and replacing them with os x and linux type boxen.

    9. Re:YAY Update :) by minus_273 · · Score: 1

      ooffice X wanted a key again but tahts about it here... (scareed me for asec bc it looked like the Office service pack type of trick initially :-p)

      --
      The war with islam is a war on the beast
      The war on terror is a war for peace
    10. Re:YAY Update :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reinstall (total reformat and clean install) and I bet you will wet yourself when you see windows run 10x to 20x faster then what you are currently used to!

    11. Re:YAY Update :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      It's not windows. you just forgot to inflate her.

    12. Re:YAY Update :) by John+Harrison · · Score: 1
      Hey, I have a CS degree from the top school in the country for it, I work for IBM, and I can't keep this damn box working. I am not saying this to show off, I am saying this to emphasize that the situation is unreasonable. If I can't keep my machine running nicely, then 99% of the population doesn't have a chance.

      Since you are able to have your machine magically from from one update to another, please tell me this: Why is it that svchost.exe crashes within 45 minutes of loggin in now, even if I do NOTHING? Is there something I can do to fix it?

    13. Re:YAY Update :) by quail_bird · · Score: 1

      no lost mail for me...just the old "keychain wants permission to decrypt blah blah blah". So, all is fine on 867 DP updating from 10.2.7. cheers, b

    14. Re:YAY Update :) by Angostura · · Score: 1

      I reach for both Windows and Mac OS X updates with glee. However I am carefully checking both for DRM additions at the moment. Hence I haven't grabbed the Windows recommended update, and I didn't grab iTunes 4.0.1

    15. Re:YAY Update :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn straight. I still haven't updated iTunes beyond 4.0.0 even though I haven't had use for the functionality that was lost. I keep it just on principle.

      (Now if I could only get it to stop asking me to let it upgrade my non-existant iPod software...)

    16. Re:YAY Update :) by Danta · · Score: 1

      Never believe unsubstantiated anti- or pro-Apple claims on Slashdot, so here is the link: http://www.spymac.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&thr eadid=41201

    17. Re:YAY Update :) by zpok · · Score: 1

      " After the last round of "updates" my machine is unable to copy & paste after it has been on for more than about 45 minutes."

      Hey! My wife's Toshiba portable has that too. Any idea why? And how you fix this?

      I sort of advised her to just restart, because my experience has tought me that trying to fix a problem on Windows is more often than not going to leave you with a whole new set of them. Better to live with the shit you know ...

      cheers

      --
      I think, therefore I am...I think.
    18. Re:YAY Update :) by John+Harrison · · Score: 1

      I deal with it by not clicking on the box that tells me that svchost.dll has crashed. I move that box offscreen and ignore it. I don't have a fix. I am hoping that the genius above who has never had a Windows patch problem will offer some advice, though I am pretty sure he is a troll.

    19. Re:YAY Update :) by babbage · · Score: 1

      Consider yourself lucky that you weren't hit by the 10.2.8 Ethernet bug. This thing has been a royal pain in the ass, and if you didn't make a backup of your ethernet driver before running the update, downloading a copy can be a real headache.

      Apple fucked up big time on this update -- this is as bad as the iTunes update that had a broken rm -rf call in a shell script, because while no data seems to be lost here, getting the machine fixed can be non-trivial if you're no longer able to access the network to begin with.

      Everyone fucks up sometimes. Yesterday was Apple's turn.

    20. Re:YAY Update :) by Puggs · · Score: 1

      OK OK I take it back.

      No software's perfect ;)

  7. Well, I for one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...welcome our new Apple overlords.

  8. from tech article... by jeeves99 · · Score: 1

    Windows on external displays connected to some PowerBook computers are drawn better.
    The Bluetooth menu bar item works better when a Bluetooth USB adapter is disconnected and reconnected.
    Addresses a situation in which an external FireWire storage device would not become available (mount) and this message would appear: "A disk attempting to mount as 'unknown' has failed. Please use Disk Utility to check the disk."
    Addresses an issue in which some Bluetooth devices may not be available after the computer wakes from sleep.
    Addresses an issue in which some Bluetooth keyboards may show a delayed response when you press a key after the computer wakes from sleep.
    Addresses an issue in which some iBook computers could make a clicking sound when using Mac OS X 10.2.5 or 10.2.6.Reduces a potential delay when removing some devices from the Bluetooth pairing list.
    Addresses a potential issue in which an audio application can unexpectedly quit when a USB- or FireWire-based audio device is disconnected.
    Bluetooth preferences correctly displays the Bluetooth menu bar item's status if the item was enabled elsewhere.
    Includes several enhancements for Safari.
    Includes support for USB 2.0 devices, including PCI and PC cards for computers that do not include USB 2.0 hardware.

    1. Re:from tech article... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (eep.)

    2. Re:from tech article... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Troll?! What the hell are you moderators smoking? The parent was copied verbatim from Apple's KB article.

    3. Re:from tech article... by heychris · · Score: 5, Interesting

      So here's my $50,000 question. Since the newest G4s were supposed to actually have USB 2.0 chipsets in them, but the software was throttling them back to 1.1, does this update magically turn the late G4 MDDs into USB 2.0 machines? CC

    4. Re:from tech article... by gerardrj · · Score: 2, Informative

      As another poster alluded to, USB 2.0 != high speed.
      USB 2.0 is a new protocol standard, it happens to have two version (IIRC), standard and fast. You CAN impliment USB 2.0 and only support the older/slower transfer speed.

      For whatever reason, Apple has decided to not use (perhaps not license) the "USB 2.0 (HighSpeed)" logo.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    5. Re:from tech article... by jeblucas · · Score: 1
      Hopefully you're one of those AC's that reads follow-ups.

      But apparently not the FAQ.

      --
      blarg.
    6. Re:from tech article... by numpins · · Score: 1

      I'm glad it fixes that iBook clicking problem. I thought the hard drive was failing.

      The trouble is I've been whacking my computer every time it clicks to get it started again. :\

  9. Re:I HATE MAC'S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    I cry "bullshit".

    I have a 500 MHz G3 iBook, soon to be replaced with a new 15" PowerBook. Some months ago, I decided to upgrade from 256 MB RAM to 640 MB (anybody want a 128 MB PC-100 SO-DIMM? Free to good home, you pay shipping...) The hardest part of the whole thing was taking off the keyboard, and that was pretty damn easy.

    To get to the RAM, I had to go through the space for the Airport card. The whole thing is designed to make this particular upgrade (RAM or Airport) as easy as possible, without sacrificing the overall design of the system. Upgrading the hard drive, sure, that's hard -- but when you have a 20 GB HD, you're not likely to be upgrading any time soon.

    I'd say you probably went about installing the Airport card incorrectly. Either that, or you're trolling. I have never seen a PC that was better designed than an Apple, especially recent Apple models.

  10. Where is 10.1.6?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Presumably MacOS X 10.1 needs ssh patched, as well. Where is it?

    1. Re:Where is 10.1.6?? by Llywelyn · · Score: 1

      http://www.openssh.org/

      --
      Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
    2. Re:Where is 10.1.6?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gee, I didn't know MacOS X was open source! Thanks for the tip. But then I don't get it why people pay money for MacOS X. Its sticky GUI seems pretty lame if I have to apply patches on my own.

    3. Re:Where is 10.1.6?? by HSpirit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That misses the point entirely.

      1. When was OSX 10.1 released? After Windows 2000, right? What kind of outcry would there be if Micro$oft announced:
        "There's a critical security update available for Windows XP. The issue affects Windows 2000 too, but we don't support that any more."
        There'd be people wanting to charge Micro$oft with Treason...!
      2. If I update the vendor included version with SSH with a version compiled from source, or even a binary not obtained from the vendor, in terms of support I am screwed, no?

      I recommended purchase of a Mac in our office recently, due to the fact it could handle both the graphic design and web/mail serving requirements. My boss knows about Jaguar, but his opinion is that he shouldn't have to upgrade only a year after purchasing the Mac - he has a point, surely?

    4. Re:Where is 10.1.6?? by tgibbs · · Score: 1
      Presumably MacOS X 10.1 needs ssh patched, as well. Where is it?
      I imagine that they'll update Jaguar server before getting around to worrying about older versions of OSX.
    5. Re:Where is 10.1.6?? by Llywelyn · · Score: 1

      Speaking of missing the point....

      1) This is not a "critical update" by any stretch of the imagination. It makes a DoS attack easy, it is not a root exploit.

      2) People who are running the default installation of sshd and who are dependent on the default installation sshd are primarily going to be home users, who are in the lowest risk category for being attacked by a DoS.

      In short: If you are using OpenSSH seriously in a business or school environment, you should either are running your own copy (from OpenSSH.org) or be willing to let something like this (with no remote or local exploits, just a DoS attack) slide.

      I agree that it would be nice to see a patch from Apple, but this is not exactly what I would call a "make or break" kind of security flaw.

      --
      Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
    6. Re:Where is 10.1.6?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, that makes me feel better. You certainly seem to know your stuff. You are the only one I've read who has such a lax attitude towards the latest vulnerabilities in openssh. But I feel better now. Great advice, by the way. So much for MacOS X's reduced TCO and security.

    7. Re:Where is 10.1.6?? by trash+eighty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      well in the past an update for 10.1 has come out a few days after one for 10.2 (though not always) so lets just wait and see before passing judgement huh?

    8. Re:Where is 10.1.6?? by davids-world.com · · Score: 1

      you are right. however: while the upgrade to jaguar brought a lot of functionalities, it wasn't such a big deal as upgrading from, say, NT to 2000 or from 2000 to XP. 1. the upgrade is done within half an hour 2. you don't need to reinstall many software packages 3. they didn't change the driver framework unlike in NT->2000.

    9. Re:Where is 10.1.6?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and the cost of Jaguar? Not cheap.

  11. where's blaster? by McAddress · · Score: 4, Funny

    I have been waiting to get infected with the blaster worm for several weeks now. Will this uodate open a security hole to allow that to happen?

    1. Re:where's blaster? by geggibus · · Score: 1

      This isn't funny... people really must be that stupid according to my logs... still slightly above 1000 port 135 connects/day...

    2. Re:where's blaster? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      port 135 is used for more than just blaster my friend.... a 1000 a day isnt much of an indicator that it's blaster... if you had a 1000 a minute or even per hour that would be an indicator.... you have to remember port 135 is a known port.

    3. Re:where's blaster? by geggibus · · Score: 1

      I do know this, but i monitored the port before "the blaster breakout"..

  12. command line software update by iradik · · Score: 4, Informative
    [MacLab:~] admin% softwareupdate
    Software Update Tool
    Copyright 2002 Apple Computer, Inc.

    Software Update found the following new or updated software:

    - MacOSXUpdate10.2-10.2.8
    Mac OS X Update (10.2.8), 41552K - restart required
    - iPod201-2.0.1
    iPod Software (2.0.1), 16000K
    - iPod130-1.3
    iPod Software (1.3), 5830K

    To install an update, run this tool with the item name as an argument.
    e.g. 'softwareupdate <item> ...'
  13. Re:I HATE MAC'S by Llywelyn · · Score: 2

    Dude, I've installed one on multiple TiBooks and iBooks, if you had to "take the entire thing apart" you did something wrong.

    On a TiBook:

    You remove eight screws, a piece of metal, and it should click in easily. Albeit it is even easier in an iBook, where you don't even have to deal with screws.

    --
    Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
  14. uptime by edalytical · · Score: 4, Funny

    Given how frequently Apple updates OS X, I'm never going to have an impressive uptime. The last update was what about 2 weeks ago?

    --
    Win a signed Stephen Carpenter ESP Guitar from the Deftones: http://def-tag.com/?r=0008781
    1. Re:uptime by CptChipJew · · Score: 3, Informative

      The MacOS 10.2.6 update is a lot older than 2 weeks.

      However, you're right in the sense that these updates don't actually require a restart. They are just doing it "to be sure".

      --
      Vonal Declosion
    2. Re:uptime by burns210 · · Score: 0, Redundant

      my question would be... why do simple OS updates always require i full restart?

    3. Re:uptime by edalytical · · Score: 1

      The MacOS 10.2.6 update is a lot older than 2 weeks.

      Yes, your right. 10.2.6 was released 5 months ago. However, Java 1.4.1 Update 1 for Mac OS X was released about 2 weeks ago.

      --
      Win a signed Stephen Carpenter ESP Guitar from the Deftones: http://def-tag.com/?r=0008781
    4. Re:uptime by Juanvaldes · · Score: 4, Informative

      As another poster said "to be sure", also I bet apple and old school mac users are uneasy with the idea of system updates without a restart. I'm just glad they finally wised up and don't have the iApps force you to restart anymore.

    5. Re:uptime by babbage · · Score: 4, Informative

      upgrades have involved reboots in the past because, to improve performace, Apple has implemented part of iTunes as kernel extensions, and any tampering with the kernel requires a fresh boot to ensure stability. Other updates may have been done out of ignorance or habit, but in the case of the iApps, the reboots have generally been unavoidable.

      That said, did the 10.2.8 update involve any kernel changes? It's been long enough that there could be a point release to the kernel itself by now, not to mention any other updated kernel extensions. I haven't yet had a chance to inspect the bill of materials (hint: lsbom /Library/Receipts/fooApp.pkg to learn what was updated in a given package), but if anything in there touched the kernel, then a reboot really does has to happen.

    6. Re:uptime by kwerle · · Score: 4, Informative

      However, you're right in the sense that these updates don't actually require a restart. They are just doing it "to be sure".

      I suppose they could try to kill the old sshd and restart it - but that's more trouble than it's worth.

      As for uptime complaints because of update...

      NEWSFLASH: If you don't wanna lose the uptime, don't update.

      Or do it by hand and don't restart. Or just get a grip and realize that it don't matter.

      I didn't restart for the Java patch...

    7. Re:uptime by gerardrj · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I thought the whole idea of the Mach microkernel was that the main BSD kernel could be modified on-the-fly. You could concievably save the kernel state, stop it, load a new one and restore the state, all without a restart.

      You CAN do kernel changes to some degree and not restart the machine, look at SUN and Soalris.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    8. Re:uptime by Have+Blue · · Score: 3, Informative

      Judging from the change list, it patches the USB, Bluetooth, and audio drivers. Maybe Apple doesn't feel comfortable changing kexts without a reboot.

    9. Re:uptime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uname -v gives a kernel version of 6.8. 10.2.6 used 6.6, AFAIK

    10. Re:uptime by babbage · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's an update then -- before the upgrade uname -v gave "Darwin Kernel Version 6.6: Thu May 1 21:48:54 PDT 2003; root:xnu/xnu-344.34.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC ". So it got bumped by two point releases, and there's your reason for the reboot.

    11. Re:uptime by mashx · · Score: 1
      these updates don't actually require a restart

      Generally this seems to be the case, but I had to restart on this one as it stopped many of my programs (Terminal, Office, etc.) from starting for some reason. New version of Safari started no problem though.

      --

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
  15. AHHHH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The one thing i hate about apple is they ruin my uptime everytime they release new patches. Damn them and their stability!

    1. Re:AHHHH by MoneyT · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wasn't there a post when 10.2.6 came out regarding installing these updates without having to bring the whole system down for a restart. It was a lot of work, and essentialy did the same thing as a restart but it kept the uptime clokc running

      --
      T Money
      World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
    2. Re:AHHHH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why yes, my penis is larger than yours.

      All these pissing contests over uptime at all costs are stupid. Why do crazy things that could cause problems at the potential cost of real stability? Uptimes can be an indicator of stability but not if you have to hack everything just to keep it going. Uptime can easily be faked and it's a worthless number.

  16. Re:I HATE MAC'S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The guy is an amiga user who posted on amiga forums with this problem looking for sympathy, and didn't get any there either.

    However adding a TiBook airport card *does* require unscrewing and opening removing the entire bottom of the case to get to the slot. It's not simple like the iBook with the keyboard latches.

  17. Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    How come Apple hasn't announced the problems with OpenSSH and Sendmail? It seems that they're just quietly fixing the problem.

    This isn't what I'd expect from a company trying to push into the enterprise. Plus, if they did actually make the changes, it took quite a while.

    1. Re:Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > This isn't what I'd expect from a company trying to push
      > into the enterprise

      These are OSX 10.2.8 updates, not OSX Server updates, which have a completely different release schedule, and that's their enterprise software.

      Whether they'll announce it with those, I don't know however.

    2. Re:Security by Duke+Thomas · · Score: 1

      Eh? What sort of dumbass admin would be relying on the stock configurations of openssh and sendmail anyway, and moreover relying on Apple to decide when and how they get upgraded or patched?

    3. Re:Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know, maybe over 99% of the user-base. Don't you think that the company that releases the software should provide prompt security updates?

    4. Re:Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The original message dealt with this update's significance to enterprise applications. Now suddenly you've shifted to the users?

    5. Re:Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, has a software update been released for the server software yet? There's no excuse for leaving users hanging.

    6. Re:Security by tgibbs · · Score: 1
      Plus, if they did actually make the changes, it took quite a while.
      Looks like they may have taken an extra couple of days to fold it into the 10.2.8 update instead of issuing it standalone.
    7. Re:Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I keep waiting for Apple to drop Sendmail and move to Postfix (yeah, Baby!). Everytime I update my server, I have to reconfigure Postfix (okay, I run one tiny script and it is all better). It's not that I'm lazy... well, actually, yes, it is.

      The only s/w that needs more patches than Sendmail is Micro-"hey, did anyone bother to see if we left a port open?"soft.

  18. Re:Yes on SSH by phamlen · · Score: 4, Funny

    Amazingly, three people all posted the answer to SSH within 1 minute, but you were first!

    Congratulations! You win 4 points of karma!

    The other players each lose a point each for being redundant. But they do get a copy of the home game!

  19. not yet by microcars · · Score: 1

    I was hoping it fixed the cache problem that seems to be most annoying with eBay (and a few other sites...)

    --
    I like microcars
    1. Re:not yet by QuantumSpritz · · Score: 1

      If you want a temporary fix for the caching problem, enable the debug menu (check macosxhints.com for how) and tweak the cache - I just flat-out disabled mine, since I'm on DSL.

  20. Re:I HATE MAC'S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What drugs are you on? I connected mine through the keyboard. two small locks need turning and the keyboard comes out, and the airport slot is on the left side. It couldn't be easier. There's no "opening the case" at all.

  21. how odd by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 1
    Apple seems to be on an unstoppable rise

    That's strange. Either the '17 MB folder' troll is trying a new tactic, or someone else thought there should be a pro-Apple troll to go along with the haters. The plot thins.

    --
    If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    1. Re:how odd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      It goes along with the new "Today I spent the good part of 5 hours..." troll.

      There's activity on the mac troll front, and it's leading to something.

      Probably nothing interesting, but it's leading to something irregardless.

    2. Re:how odd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, there's this guy. At least this one is funny, although I doubt it will be after a few more times.

      Anyway, I certainly hope it's a troll. I'd really hate to think about anybody that stupid getting near a friend's computer. Of course, when he mentioned 'snips', I figured he had to be making it up.

    3. Re:how odd by easter1916 · · Score: 1

      Regardless! REGARDLESS! Jesus! "Irregardless" is not a word!

    4. Re:how odd by lullabud · · Score: 1
      it's amazing what you can find out in 15 seconds... taken directly from the dictionary.
      Main Entry: irregardless
      Pronunciation: "ir-i-'grd-l&s
      Function: adverb
      Etymology: probably blend of irrespective and regardless
      Date: circa 1912
      nonstandard : REGARDLESS
      usage Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.
      fuckin a, it's as if people can't take a minute of their time to research something and keep themselves from looking like a fool, making claims that imply "i know what i'm talking about" but show exactly the contrary. we have the biggest resource in the world here guys, and we all claim to know how to use it, so let's use it.
    5. Re:how odd by easter1916 · · Score: 1

      A) The definition states that this so-called word originated from American dialectical speech, and the "word" itself is obviously incorrect.

      B) I'm not American. I was referring to the English language, not some ugly dialect.

      C) I regard the Oxford English Dictionary as the definitive dictionary.

      D) The so-called word is not defined in the O.E.D.

  22. Transparent dock now gone by Froomb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Otherwise no problems with 10.2.8 so far, but must say I miss my invisible dock background.

    1. Re:Transparent dock now gone by Militant+Libertarian · · Score: 1

      I use unsanity's cleardock, and my custom dock seems to work ok

      Supposedly this update was supposed to really speed stuff up, I've yet to notice it on my DP 800 G4

      --

      I fear nothing but my government. Vote Libertarian.
    2. Re:Transparent dock now gone by Zelet · · Score: 1

      I am noticing a speed difference... but it might be in my head.

      --
      ...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
    3. Re:Transparent dock now gone by Analog+Penguin · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I tried to use TransparentDock immediately after booting into 10.2.8, and the Dock wouldn't even start up--good thing I did another backup!

    4. Re:Transparent dock now gone by Glial · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but I'm noticing a speed improvement also. Safari seems faster as does the genie effect. I dunno. .8 my dock.

    5. Re:Transparent dock now gone by Zelet · · Score: 1

      When you mute your machine does it do the gong thing at boot anyway? That is getting on my damn nerves.

      --
      ...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
    6. Re:Transparent dock now gone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Otherwise no problems with 10.2.8 so far, but must say I miss my invisible dock background

      How do you know it's gone if it's invisible?

    7. Re:Transparent dock now gone by noewun · · Score: 1

      I had to restore from an old Dock backup and re-run Transparent Dock, but it works now.

      --
      I am a believer of momentum and curves.
    8. Re:Transparent dock now gone by Froomb · · Score: 1

      Same here--after a restore then reapplication all is well.

    9. Re:Transparent dock now gone by hexdcml · · Score: 1

      how do you backup the dock? forgive me if it sounds n00bish :)

      --
      Fight Crime - Shoot Back!
    10. Re:Transparent dock now gone by JJSpreij · · Score: 1

      The terminal command:

      sudo tar -cvPpf dockbackup.tar /System/Library/CoreServices/Dock.app/

      will create a backup of the Dock, and:

      sudo tar -xvPpf dockbackup.tar

      will restore it. You need to make the backup before installing 10.2.8, obviously, or on another not-yet-updated machine.

      TransparentDock apparently can make a backup itself as well, and restore it... but I was just helping a user who had already deleted the TransparentDock app in trying to solve the problem ;-)

      --
      "These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others." --Groucho Marx
    11. Re:Transparent dock now gone by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      When you mute your machine does it do the gong thing at boot anyway? That is getting on my damn nerves.

      If you're using speakers, don't turn them on until after you boot. If you really just want it silent all the time, stick a mini-RCA plug in the headphones jack.

    12. Re:Transparent dock now gone by lullabud · · Score: 1

      i updated to 10.2.8. once i ran transparent dock my dock crashed, and crashed, and continued to crash ad infinitum. i restored a backup and that solved the problem. after running transparent dock on this backup the dock quit crashing, and i had my color settings back, and everything was cool. wondering what the deal was, i updated another mac that i have, then backed up the dock directly after updating, and i was going to experiment with it. i never got around to doing that, but now i'm seeing other anomalies, with the NEW dock app. my icons are bunched up together, and sometimes an application will stay in the dock after it's quit, and puts another icon along side it when the application is opened again (not using the dock shortcut). is anybody else seeing this behavior, or similar anomalies?

  23. XBench by Nexum · · Score: 4, Informative

    FWIW, my XBench results under 10.2.6 were 69.99. Under 10.2.8 I have 76.3.

    A nice little improvement even if it is a synthetic benchmark it's nice to see Apple striving for optimisation. Hopefully this mindset will be seen in Panther to a much greater degree seeing as being a full .x update the changes to the underlying OS have much greater license.

    -Nex

    --

    This sig has been deprecated.
    1. Re:XBench by stingerman101 · · Score: 1

      I am noticing a difference as well. Your numbers indicate about 8-10% improvement. That feels about right.

  24. Breaks M-Audio Revolution 7.1 by qengho · · Score: 3, Informative

    A couple of people have reported to XLR8 Your Mac that their M-Audio Revolution 7.1 cards no longer work after the update. One mentions that M-Audio knows about it and is working on a fix.

    1. Re:Breaks M-Audio Revolution 7.1 by hrbrmstr · · Score: 1

      Excellent. Many thanks for the post/confirmation. I was just about to comment on this myself!

      --
      Mind the gap...
    2. Re:Breaks M-Audio Revolution 7.1 by soullessbastard · · Score: 1

      M-audio released a new driver, version 1.2.7, yesterday that has support for the update if you installed it. It also adds 10.3 support along with 10.2.7 support for G5s according to the litle release note summary.

  25. Odd monitor gotcha by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 5, Informative
    Installed 10.2.8 on a 12" PowerBook (aka 'the footlong'), no discernable problems so far.

    An odd thing was that it reset my monitor settings back to 16bit colour ('Thousands'), so you may want to watch out for that. Aqua does such a good job of dithering you probably wouldn't even notice at first.

    Another odd thing was that my display went a little funky when doing the cross-fading desktop pictures just a second ago. Fixed itself after the transition was complete, no idea what that's about.

    If you're superstitious like me don't forget to do the Repair Permissions trick - its the new Rebuild Desktop - although I had no issues there either.

    One last thing, be prepared to have your frickin Keychain pestering you for the next week....

    --
    If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    1. Re:Odd monitor gotcha by AyanamiChan · · Score: 1

      I'm also on a 12" iBook, and it did the same thing with the monitor colors. After I read your post I went and checked system prefs, and there it was at thousands. I didn't even notice the difference. I wonder why it did that?

      --
      "Procrasination is the key to world peace." ~Some girl in California
    2. Re:Odd monitor gotcha by darkov · · Score: 1

      One (relatively minor) annoyance about Apple updates is they each seem to choose a different system setting to reset. When I installed 10.2.8 on my Dual G4 867 Mirror Door it reset all my screen resolution and position settings. An update on my laptop reset my UI settings. What happened to the Mac attention to detail? All lost in the Unix weenies trying to get the quoting right so they don't erase you hard disk, I imagine.

    3. Re:Odd monitor gotcha by gerardrj · · Score: 1

      Did similar on my beige G3. Reset my monitor arrangement, resolution, bit depth and "main monitor" settings.

      I frequently run with my secondary monitor turned off, and I was confused when my login screen didn't appear. I force rebooted twice then I finally turned on the second monitor to see the LS there.

      My secondary monitor is on the built-in video port and my primary is on a PCI Radeon 7000.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    4. Re:Odd monitor gotcha by Nexum · · Score: 1

      Also have a 12" PB, and on reading your post checked the Display settings and found my display set to Thousands of colors too.

      I am embarassed to think that I didnt notice for a full day!

      So a note to PowerBook users - Check your display settings

      -Nex

      --

      This sig has been deprecated.
    5. Re:Odd monitor gotcha by nystagman · · Score: 1
      My secondary monitor is on the built-in video port and my primary is on a PCI Radeon 7000.

      A question, if I may?

      I have the same setup, and am considering rearranging my desktop (not the electronic one, but rather the physical one which will require a backhoe to shift all the old papers piled up) to add a second monitor. I was planning to use the 2nd head -- the VGA connector -- on the 7000, rather than the old on-board (6 MB VRAM) video of the G3.

      Why are you using the G3's on-board video? Are you using two VGA monitors? Do you not want to split the processing/VRAM of the Radeon? Do you want to see a live monitor as X boots, rather than waiting almost to the end of the boot process when the Radeon is finally live?

      How good/bad is the performance of the on-board video? It seemed somewhat dog slow when I was setting up another G3 last week. When I put in an older Radeon, suddenly the machine became usable.

      Enquiring minds want to know. Thanks.

      --
      Theory and practice are the same in theory, but different in practice.
    6. Re:Odd monitor gotcha by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 1
      I am embarassed to think that I didnt notice for a full day!

      Nah, don't be embarrassed. Aqua is really good with palettes. You probably wouldn't notice any difference at all for awhile... unless you had a desktop with a major gradient or something in it.

      One giveaway is the metal theme - you can see a funny stair-stepping effect in Safari and iTunes with Thousands of colours set.

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    7. Re:Odd monitor gotcha by gerardrj · · Score: 1

      I was originally using the two heads on the 7000 to run both displays. It's nice that I get the high performance on both screens that way.
      The trouble seemed to come in when I was playing games, specifically games that don't blank the unused screens to black and/or turn them off. In any case, some of my games seemed to slow down in that configuration. I think it was because of the desktop taking a few megs of vram for the desktop picture and the extra clock cycles to maintain the display. The max res I can get on the internal display is 1280x1024, and I run the other display from the 7000 at 1600x1200. I miss the extra pixels on the second display.

      As you said there is the whole "OS-X doesn't see the displays until the OS gets near the login screen and loads the video drivers for the card" thing. Sitting at black screens for so long makes me jumpy.

      The on-board video chip is dog slow compared to the Radeon 7000. That's why I set the menu bar screen to be on the 7000. I only use the built-in display for secondary windows and things that dont' get moved/resized/scrolled a whole lot. Most games default to the menu bar display to run, some ask you which one to use.

      Finally, I regularly attach a TV to the Radeon's second port for video previewing from Final Cut. It's much simpler if I don't have to disable one of my displays to do that. Asn yes, all three displays are active at one time.

      What I'd really like to do is get two large IDE HDs and get rid of my SCSI card for the boot disk and install a second 7000. Then I'd be able to connect up 5 displays at once.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    8. Re:Odd monitor gotcha by gerardrj · · Score: 1

      Ohh... and the biggie, I'd forgotten about the "big" gotcha with the Radeon 7000 PCI in the beige PowerMac:
      If you install ROM version 2.0.8 on the Radeon it will not properly handle dual monitors on the G3. I don't recall which port refuses to work, but I think it's the DVI when you have VGA adapter on it.

      I decided that the enhancements that 208 brought were worth putting my secondary display on the internal video.
      As I mentioned in my first reply, multiple monitors when you use the VGA port and the S-Video port works.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
  26. more on x-fading pics by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Informative
    Just replying to my own post with more info...

    The cross-fading desktops feature has a new bug (on a 12" PB anyway) where the secondary monitor - in my case a Sony 17" CRT - screws up the transition effect.

    The PowerBook is running at 1024x768/32bit on its main display, and 1280x1024/32bit on the secondary (NOT mirroring).

    During the crossfade the first picture suddenly appears to squish to have the horizontal resolution, pushed to the left, and the palette gets munged (purple). It snaps back to normal after the fade but it ain't pretty.

    --
    If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
  27. All Recent Security Updates by Rosyna · · Score: 5, Informative

    APPLE-SA-2003-09-22 Mac OS X 10.2.8

    Mac OS X 10.2.8 is now available. It contains fixes for recent
    vulnerabilities in:

    OpenSSH: Mac OS X 10.2.8 contains the patches to address CVE
    CAN-2003-0693, CAN-2003-0695, and CAN-2003-0682. On Mac OS X
    versions prior to 10.2.8, the vulnerability is limited to a denial
    of service from the possibility of causing sshd to crash. Each
    login session has its own sshd, so established connections are
    preserved up to the point where system resources are exhausted by
    an attack.

    To deliver the update in a rapid and reliable manner, only the
    patches for CVE IDs listed above were applied, and not the entire
    set of patches for OpenSSH 3.7.1. Thus, the OpenSSH version in
    Mac OS X 10.2.8, as obtained via the "ssh -V" command, is:
    OpenSSH_3.4p1+CAN-2003-0693, SSH protocols 1.5/2.0, OpenSSL
    0x0090609f

    Sendmail: Addresses CVE CAN-2003-0694 and CAN-2003-0681 to fix a
    buffer overflow in address parsing, as well as a potential buffer
    overflow in ruleset parsing.

    fb_realpath(): Fixes CAN-2003-0466 which is an off-by-one error in
    the fb_realpath() function that may allow attackers to execute
    arbitrary code.

    arplookup(): Fixes CAN-2003-0804. The arplookup() function caches
    ARP requests for routes on a local link. On a local subnet only,
    it is possible for an attacker to send a sufficient number of
    spoofed ARP requests which will exhaust kernel memory, leading to
    a denial of service.

  28. Re:I HATE MAC'S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    INSIDE THE MACHINE oooo... SCARY! Watch your fingers now, something might get up and bite you!

    Computer guy eh? Let me ask you a question....

    I was writing a paper, on my PC when it went beepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeepbeep, and like half of my paper was gone!

    What do you think the problem is?

  29. tell apple you're not satisfied with patch time by Irevia · · Score: 4, Interesting
    If you're not satisfied that it's taken about a week to patch sendmail and OpenSSH, send them feedback. This is what I sent them (although I don't suggest you say exactly the same!):

    I just wanted to make feedback regarding the fact that it's taken a whole week between reports of the OpenSSH and sendmail vulnerabilities and Apple releasing a patch.

    As a long-time Unix user just entering the world of OS X (and mostly enjoying it very much), I wanted to note that the FreeBSD project released patches within 24 hours of initial reports, as did many Linux vendors, and that I would expect faster response time from Apple in the future. Delays have a negative effect on the PR image of Apple as well as being a pain for admins and end users!

    Thanks for taking the time to read this.

    1. Re:tell apple you're not satisfied with patch time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      QA takes longer

    2. Re:tell apple you're not satisfied with patch time by valkraider · · Score: 2, Funny

      Complaining about ONE WEEK turnaround. Geeze, don't ever try to get cable TV installed... (grin)

    3. Re:tell apple you're not satisfied with patch time by BostonPilot · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I think a week is reasonable if they used the time to do lots of testing. I hate patches that don't work correctly. Ref: what everybody seems to complain about Microsoft patches... they're afraid of them making things worse and breaking stuff.

      A reasonable amount of QA testing goes a long way towards good reliability in my book.

    4. Re:tell apple you're not satisfied with patch time by jeffasselin · · Score: 1

      You could also have done the updates manually, by installing the updated packages. Fink lets you do that easily, it had 3.7.1p1 available a few days ago.

      --
      If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
  30. Hey, what happened to 10.2.7? by tuxedobob · · Score: 1

    I didn't _really_ miss an entire point update, did I?

    I'm guessing it was an internal development release. Or is it what's currently on the G5's?

    1. Re:Hey, what happened to 10.2.7? by macmaxbh · · Score: 2, Informative

      10.2.7 was a G5-only version of Mac OS X as a stop-gap measure before Apple finishes 10.3.
      Apple says (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86 426)
      Don't use the 10.2.7 CDsthat come with the G5 macs on normal macs, it's g5 only.

    2. Re:Hey, what happened to 10.2.7? by geoffspear · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oddly enough, the release notes for the new update say it updates 10.2.6 and 10.2.7 to 10.2.8, and then says you can't use it on a G5.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    3. Re:Hey, what happened to 10.2.7? by uunh+haun · · Score: 1

      Well, I've seen 10.2.7 on a 17"

    4. Re:Hey, what happened to 10.2.7? by CptChipJew · · Score: 1

      The OS X installer isn't particularly smart about checking system requirements other than saying "You need n version of OS X".

      This person very well could have used the install CDs that came with a G5.

      --
      Vonal Declosion
    5. Re:Hey, what happened to 10.2.7? by berniecase · · Score: 1

      Could've been one of the newer 17" PowerBooks. Those do come with 10.2.7.

    6. Re:Hey, what happened to 10.2.7? by macmaxbh · · Score: 1

      It also comes with USB 2 iMacs-- says the Apple list (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25 517). Doesn't mention powerbooks, must have not been updated.. :)

  31. Apple Security Mailing List by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 2, Redundant


    Here's the list of official changes to security in 10.2.8 (read it for yourself at security-announce@apple.com):

    APPLE-SA-2003-09-22 Mac OS X 10.2.8

    Mac OS X 10.2.8 is now available. It contains fixes for recent vulnerabilities in:

    OpenSSH: Mac OS X 10.2.8 contains the patches to address CVE CAN-2003-0693, CAN-2003-0695, and CAN-2003-0682. On Mac OS X versions prior to 10.2.8, the vulnerability is limited to a denial of service from the possibility of causing sshd to crash. Each login session has its own sshd, so established connections are preserved up to the point where system resources are exhausted by an attack.

    To deliver the update in a rapid and reliable manner, only the patches for CVE IDs listed above were applied, and not the entire set of patches for OpenSSH 3.7.1. Thus, the OpenSSH version in Mac OS X 10.2.8, as obtained via the "ssh -V" command, is: OpenSSH_3.4p1+CAN-2003-0693, SSH protocols 1.5/2.0, OpenSSL 0x0090609f

    Sendmail: Addresses CVE CAN-2003-0694 and CAN-2003-0681 to fix a buffer overflow in address parsing, as well as a potential buffer overflow in ruleset parsing.

    fb_realpath(): Fixes CAN-2003-0466 which is an off-by-one error in the fb_realpath() function that may allow attackers to execute arbitrary code.

    arplookup(): Fixes CAN-2003-0804. The arplookup() function caches ARP requests for routes on a local link. On a local subnet only, it is possible for an attacker to send a sufficient number of spoofed ARP requests which will exhaust kernel memory, leading to a denial of service.

    --

    --
    $tar -xvf .sig.tar
  32. sendmail was patched as well by mike_lynn · · Score: 1
    strings /usr/sbin/sendmail | grep "parseaddr.c,"
    @(#)$Id: parseaddr.c,v 1.4 2003/09/16 20:56:56 rbraun Exp $

    Joy.

  33. What a speed up! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 0
    It's so fast now, I'm looking at the back of my own head!

    Any guesses as to when Panther will be released? I have to wait until Nov 3rd! until I get my 15" PB! I'm hoping it will be included...

  34. Does contain SSH fix...kinda by Packet+Fish · · Score: 1, Redundant

    From apple product security update mailing list:

    OpenSSH: Mac OS X 10.2.8 contains the patches to address CVE
    CAN-2003-0693, CAN-2003-0695, and CAN-2003-0682. On Mac OS X
    versions prior to 10.2.8, the vulnerability is limited to a denial
    of service from the possibility of causing sshd to crash. Each
    login session has its own sshd, so established connections are
    preserved up to the point where system resources are exhausted by
    an attack.

    To deliver the update in a rapid and reliable manner, only the
    patches for CVE IDs listed above were applied, and not the entire
    set of patches for OpenSSH 3.7.1. Thus, the OpenSSH version in
    Mac OS X 10.2.8, as obtained via the "ssh -V" command, is:
    OpenSSH_3.4p1+CAN-2003-0693, SSH protocols 1.5/2.0, OpenSSL
    0x0090609f

  35. A good question. by teamhasnoi · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Here we are (happily) updating our Macs, looking forward to things being fixed, updated and working better, not to mention new features and faster performance.

    Has anyone out there *ever* updated Windows and expected it to *speed up* your computer?

    I look at Windows update with dread - not knowing what evil new EULA, spyware, bugs and exploits await every trip.

    Software Update is something that Apple got *so* right. People *want* to run it. Hell, I check twice a day! Do most Windows users even KNOW about Windows Update??

    Another reason I just gave Apple my money.

    1. Re:A good question. by berniecase · · Score: 1

      Hey buddy, don't drink all of the kool-aid! There's more of us here that you should share it with! ;-)

      Seriously, though, Software Update on OS X is loads better than it was on OS9. It was a pig back then - laggy, freezy, crashy. Windows Update in those days was lots better, sad to say.

    2. Re:A good question. by chipset · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well.. The only update I have ever done to speed up any of my PCs was to reinstall. However, reinstalling Windows 2000 or newer requires so many reboots to get up-to-date patches it isn't even funny. And, of course, once the OS is installed and configured and the applications running on it, it slows back down to a crawl. I have an IBM thinkpad T30. 2Ghz, 1GB mem, 60GB hd... and when doing anything, it will pause to thrash on the HD. Really sucks when you are doing development work.. I must say, since I switched, I check fairly often for the updates, especially when I know something is out there. And, for the most part, I instantly want the updates, unlike MS Windows where I tell the updater to skip them, for the umpteenth time. As for the EULA, and I admit this, I never read them. Hardly anyone else does either. It's that or be stuck with a system that's as vulnerable as a nice car sitting on the street in manhattan at midnight in a dark alley. Why even ask for a password on Windows? It matters?

    3. Re:A good question. by stingerman101 · · Score: 1

      Some problem here with my Windows PCs, both the Dell laptop and Sony Vaio start thrashing though they have plenty of RAM. Doing any encoding brings the whole system to a crawl. It is really amazing that my old 500 MHz PowerMac G4 AGP, is consistently more responsive and I can have so many more Apps running simultaneously without any thrashing at all. When I read all the Wintel benchmarks and compare that against my actual experience, me thinks the benchmarks need a reality test. By the way 10.2.8 sped up my system, not as fast as the Panther betas but it is snappier.

    4. Re:A good question. by chipset · · Score: 1
      Good point. I am certain when they do benchmarks, they are using "clean systems", meaning everything has been wiped and the system is running at top notch. However, in the real world, it never works like that. Fragging on the HD will slow a system down in a big way. My laptop was fast... once.

      As for the update, my system froze and I had to reboot. It actually took longer to reboot and I had to update my screen resolution, as it put it in 800x600. I am not sure it is faster to me.. But, I was satisfied with it. I did think, when I made the switch, that the OSX was slower than Windows. Just not as snappy. So, it might be faster, and I just haven't noticed..

    5. Re:A good question. by zpok · · Score: 1

      Yep, in all honesty, Windows beat Mac on it's update service.

      Now, I think Apple wins hands down, it's just too easy :-)

      But still, the Windows update webservice is useable. What I really hate is to go and look for downloads on their website. Horrible, just play horrible.

      --
      I think, therefore I am...I think.
    6. Re:A good question. by berniecase · · Score: 1

      Apple's techinfo library site isn't much better, for searching for software. It's gotten better than it used to be, but I usually just stick to MacUpdate or VersionTracker. They're usually very quick to keep track of all software updates.

    7. Re:A good question. by zpok · · Score: 1

      You're right of course.

      I like Apple's style more, and it's not such a bloated mix of propaganda and uselessness, but I've been frustrated a few times myself there.

      As I've pointed out a few times here, the Software Update thingy in OS X does allow for just downloading the packages to the desktop. That usually means no trips to the support site is necessary.

      --
      I think, therefore I am...I think.
  36. Re:I HATE MAC'S by teamhasnoi · · Score: 3, Funny
    Well, to change the battery, I had to take the screen apart and all the colors fell out!

    I called Apple and they said that that wasn't covered under Applecare! I have a paper due, and have 16.5 million colors to put back! Your problems don't amount to a hill of beans, Mister!

  37. Perhaps of more interest than ssh... by aminorex · · Score: 1

    How can I upgrade without updating iTunes?
    I don't want to lose sharing capabilities
    to upgrade the OS.

    --
    -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    1. Re:Perhaps of more interest than ssh... by justMichael · · Score: 1

      Drag it out of Applications, if you still don't feel comfortable with that put a copy in an encrypted dmg. When the update is done, just drag it back into place, or another place, I have heard that they can coexist.

      Disclaimer: Not tested, Your mileage may vary.

    2. Re:Perhaps of more interest than ssh... by dr00g911 · · Score: 1

      Have you considered just stuffing and archiving your old iTunes, then if it gets replaced without your consent restoring the archive?

      It's a Mac, y'know.

      The limits on iTunes sharing aren't really all that bad, though. You can still have up to 5 LAN users connected to your library.

      If that's not enough, perhaps you should look at the SliMP3 server software. It's meant for controlling the (awesome) SliMP3 device, but can also stream whatever you like to whatever address you like via a web-based interface.

    3. Re:Perhaps of more interest than ssh... by MoneyT · · Score: 1

      Keep a copy of the old iTunes app locked away on a disk immage, update and replace.

      --
      T Money
      World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
    4. Re:Perhaps of more interest than ssh... by iJosh · · Score: 1

      You don't have to loose sharing capability when updating iTunes to 4.0.1 just use this handy little utility. 401(ok) I have several friends that have found this quite helpful. Enjoy an updated Mac.

      --
      Moderating to further my personal world domination agenda... and to get chicks.
  38. From an AusCERT advisory: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Mac OS X 10.2.8 is now available. It contains fixes for recent
    vulnerabilities in:

    OpenSSH: Mac OS X 10.2.8 contains the patches to address CVE
    CAN-2003-0693, CAN-2003-0695, and CAN-2003-0682. On Mac OS X
    versions prior to 10.2.8, the vulnerability is limited to a denial
    of service from the possibility of causing sshd to crash. Each
    login session has its own sshd, so established connections are
    preserved up to the point where system resources are exhausted by
    an attack.

    To deliver the update in a rapid and reliable manner, only the
    patches for CVE IDs listed above were applied, and not the entire
    set of patches for OpenSSH 3.7.1. Thus, the OpenSSH version in
    Mac OS X 10.2.8, as obtained via the "ssh -V" command, is:
    OpenSSH_3.4p1+CAN-2003-0693, SSH protocols 1.5/2.0, OpenSSL
    0x0090609f

    Sendmail: Addresses CVE and CAN-2003-0681 to fix a
    buffer overflow in address parsing, as well as a potential buffer
    overflow in ruleset parsing.

    fb_realpath(): Fixes CAN-2003-0466 which is an off-by-one error in
    the fb_realpath() function that may allow attackers to execute
    arbitrary code.

    arplookup(): Fixes CAN-2003-0804. The arplookup() function caches
    ARP requests for routes on a local link. On a local subnet only,
    it is possible for an attacker to send a sufficient number of
    spoofed ARP requests which will exhaust kernel memory, leading to
    a denial of service.

  39. A standalone installer? by redJag · · Score: 1

    The article talks of a standalone installer available at apple.com/swupdates (or some-such link), but it is not listed on there. Anyone?

    1. Re:A standalone installer? by berniecase · · Score: 1

      Apple usually puts the combo updater and standalone installer up on their support site a day after the software update package comes through.

      For those who have problems with the update, running the combo updater frequently fixes them.

      And, don't forget to repair permissions with Disk Utility after installing this update!

    2. Re:A standalone installer? by godawful · · Score: 1

      you can always download the package itself without installing it via software update, which probably isn't want you're looking for, but still worth mentioning

      --
      Live EVERY week... Like it's Shark Week
    3. Re:A standalone installer? by blb · · Score: 1
  40. Re:Enables USB 2.0 by klui · · Score: 1

    I don't have any USB 2.0 (high-speed) devices but my Ratoc USB/Firewire combo card has its EHCI device enabled according to ioreg. 10.2.6 showed all devices as OHCI.

  41. Re:Not just sharing... by MoneyT · · Score: 1

    It's still there. Under the importing preferences, select a custom bitrate It will go all the way up to 320

    --
    T Money
    World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
  42. Re:I HATE MAC'S by theolein · · Score: 2, Informative

    I was going to mod you up in sympathy but I decided to reply instead when I saw the flamebait at the end of your post. I agree fully that the installation procedure for the airport card is not trivial, and is a blemish on Apple's otherwise very good hardware record. It could really have been made simpler or at leats be done for free at an Apple store. Technically challenged people (most computer users fit into this category) should not be made to do this.

    But Apple has made these cards default in the newer Powerbooks AFAIK and you could have installed a wireless PC card with the same ease as you would have on a PC laptop. Apart from this I have never seen a PC laptop with an even close attention to detail and engineering quality of an Apple laptop, with the possible exception of IBM's Thinkpads, which are quite solid. Dell and Compaq's offerings are poorly engiineered in order to save money and it shows.

    Anyway, who cares. If something drives you to rage, then I think you have other problems...

  43. USB 2.0 Finally Works by SteveHeadroom · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Belkin USB 2.0 PCI card I put in my Dual-867 PowerMac G4 now works at USB 2.0 speed. I can actually transfer files to my Maxtor external hard drive in a reasonable amount of time. Too bad I already bought a Firewire drive to use instead.

    Apple pioneered the use of USB and Firewire. It's a shame to see they dropped the ball on USB 2 until now.

    1. Re:USB 2.0 Finally Works by heXXXen · · Score: 1

      Apple didn't pioneer USB..."Wintel" PCs had it before Macs did.

  44. ETHERNET PROBLEM by gidds · · Score: 5, Informative
    10.2.8 includes a new version of the internal Ethernet driver; many folks have found it stops their Ethernet from working!

    Discussed further here. Respect to Andrew McPherson for coming up with a workaround: make a backup of /System/Library/Extensions/AppleGMACEthernet.kext before upgrading, and restore it afterwards. If you've already upgraded, follow the link for more info.

    --

    Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    1. Re:ETHERNET PROBLEM by phac · · Score: 1

      The fix for me was to set my en0 to media autoselect, rather than the 100baseTW full-duplex that I had scripted it to. Drove me nuts for an hour first, though.

    2. Re: ETHERNET PROBLEM by gidds · · Score: 1

      How do you do that?

      --

      Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    3. Re: ETHERNET PROBLEM by phac · · Score: 1
      do this:

      #ifconfig en0 media autoselect

      that should do the trick. You can set the speed and duplex manually in the same way with:

      #ifconfig en0 media media mediaopt media-option

      Where media and media-option are, for example, 100baseTX and half-duplex. You can see the whole list of options when you type ifconfig.

    4. Re: ETHERNET PROBLEM by frankie · · Score: 2, Informative
      1. ifconfig in Terminal
      2. probably doable in Property List Editor
      3. Network options in Cocktail
    5. Re:ETHERNET PROBLEM by babbage · · Score: 1
      If your machine is hosed, here's Andrew's suggested fix:
      wget http://web.mit.edu/apm/www/AppleGMACEthernet.tar.g z
      # note -- doing the above without network access is left
      # as an exercise for the reader. i happen to have a flash
      # card reader, so can transfer it that way, but I was
      # getting pretty desperate before that occurred to me.
      # others might want to try burning a CD or something...

      cd /System/Library/Extensions
      sudo rm -Rf AppleGMACEthernet.tar.gz
      sudo cp -r /path/to/AppleGMACEthernet.tar.gz .
      cd ..
      sudo rm Extensions.kextcache
      sudo rm Extensions.mkext
      sudo shutdown -r now

      This advice is posted more or less verbatim as McPherson posted it. I haven't yet tried it myself, but so far it is the only remedy I've seen that seems like it'll work -- the ifconfig en0 media autoselect trick didn't fix the problem in my case, so I'm hoping that this takes care of it.

      What a royal pain in the ass...

  45. Small Fonts in Safari by reiggin · · Score: 4, Informative

    Very small fonts in Safari render MUCH better now. They are actually legible. Must be an improvement to the Webcore. I can now read the positions on my Yahoo! Fantasy Football roster!

    1. Re:Small Fonts in Safari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey! that's! great! ...runs! off! to! update!

  46. Re:I HATE MAC'S by uunh+haun · · Score: 1

    you are thinking of an ibook, genius. On a "TiBook" (short for Titanium Powerbook, made by Apple) you do have to take it apart.

  47. It's coming. Just hold your horses... by melquiades · · Score: 1

    Don't you worry. Microsoft has heard your pleas and is working very hard on this problem.

  48. Re:I HATE MAC'S by tgibbs · · Score: 3, Informative
    I got the job as I'm the "Computer Guy" and can generally help friends and family with there computer problems. I have never seen such a tragedy of design as the TiBook!
    Evidently, you didn't want to endanger your "computer guy" status by actually reading the directions. Besides, I'm sure your friend was very impressed by your extensive and unnecessary disassembly of her Powerbook, and will probably believe you when you blame Apple for the damage that you did.

    Oh, by the way, the "easily accessed" slot is on the side, just where it is on a PC, and accepts standard wireless cards. The Airport card is for people who don't want to be bothered unplugging their wireless card every time they want to to put something else in that slot.

  49. Not for G5 per Apple by djupedal · · Score: 3, Informative

    >Dumbass, Sir, to you....

    TOPIC

    This software updates Mac OS X 10.2.6 or 10.2.7 to version 10.2.8.

    Important: This update works only with Power Mac G3- and G4-based desktop and portable computers, including iMac, eMac, and iBook. This update does not work with Power Mac G5 computers.

    1. Re:Not for G5 per Apple by coolmacdude · · Score: 1

      Ok, I take it back. But the dumbass is on Apple then. It clearly states on the main info page 10.2.7 which was only released for the G5's. Hell, the 64 bit support needed for the G5's is the only reason there was a 10.2.7. Apple should get its info straight.

      --

      -You may license this sig for only $6.99.
    2. Re:Not for G5 per Apple by Drakino · · Score: 1

      10.2.7 also is on the new Powerbooks, thus the need to specify it updates 10.2.7 to 10.2.8.

      The question now is when is 10.2.8 coming to the G5 to fix the SSH issue?

    3. Re:Not for G5 per Apple by djupedal · · Score: 1

      >Apple should get its info straight.

      I agree :)

    4. Re:Not for G5 per Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are two 10.2.7 versions.

      The G5 one is "10.2.7 (G5)" and the one for the new PowerBooks is simply "10.2.7".

    5. Re:Not for G5 per Apple by foonie · · Score: 1

      Er... new G4 iMacs also run 10.2.7.

    6. Re:Not for G5 per Apple by gozar · · Score: 1

      I was at the Apple Store (Easton, in Columbus, OH) this past weekend and all the machines there were running 10.2.7!

      --
      What, me worry?
  50. Re:I HATE MAC'S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ROFL

  51. graphics problems? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On my 12" powerbook and an external monitor i sometimes get black lines in the upper left hand part of the screen.

    (i say get panther from bittorrent and skip this upgrade.. 10.3 is very close to ready)

  52. Re:I HATE MAC'S by BostonPilot · · Score: 1
    I did exactly this procedure for my son's TiBook. I printed the (very good) directions in the Apple Knowledge Base article, purchased a Torx screwdriver, and then within 10 minutes had the Airport card installed.

    The hardest part was finding the correct Torx screwdriver.

    I think you are exaggerating the difficulty...

  53. Don't look at me... by csoto · · Score: 0

    I voted for Steve...

    --
    There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
  54. You are simply a stupid Windows user. Except it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are nothing more than a dumb ass Windows user. Go back to Microsoft dude, and just enjoy working so hard for that $450 word processor. And the virus'. Not to mention worms. Exploding macros. Whatever.

    Have you ever fucking USED a Mac? You're bitching about the design based on the fact that you can't rub two brain cells together to take it apart? I'm not prejudice white boy prick, hell my wife is Mexican, but you do realize that a few Mexican's probably put that thing together in about 4 minutes? Dumb ass.

    Now look at what they stuffed in the space they did and the end user design it is done it. Use the damn computer for a month. Maybe you'll "get it" one day. Otherwise, dude, enjoy your XPEeeeee and then version OH-Threeeeeeeee, bend over in O-Fourrrrr, and smile while you pay in OH-Five.

    In the mean time -- I'll have bought a G4 in double ought. A G5 in '04, but only out of lust -- there is no need. I can even bet that a G6 in Oh-Six may even be possible. If the economy doesn't pick up ... do you really think you can use XP in '08? I can easily see using this G4 for the next 5 years.

    SUCKER

  55. Except. Accept. I'm just a dumb ass Mac user. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    duh

  56. Nonsense- it still goes to 320Kbps by KH2002 · · Score: 1

    Just set it up with "Custom..."

  57. Offtopic, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your browser's client ID amounts to less than a shrinkwrap license. Because it is presented only after it's terms have been fulfilled, it is easily nullified. Additionally, it is not presented to a user, merely to a computer. At best it is logged. Because servers don't have "power of attorney", it's like telling a wall that by allowing you to lean against it, it authorizes you to spray it with graffiti.

    You might as well make it your e-mail address byreceivingmailfromthisaddressyouagreetopayme_five dollars@wtf.com

    If that client ID makes you feel better, then, "way to go!" Otherwise, when you get thrown in jail for stealing content you haven't paid for, have fun in jail.

  58. M-Audio problems? by MacGod · · Score: 1
    I was reading on MacFixit's report that some users had trouble with the M-Audio Revolution PCI sound card.

    What I was wondering, is if anyone here had tried this update with the M-Audio Sonica USB device.

    In addition to the overall functionality of this device, does anyone know if the Apple's DVD player in this OS version now supports 5.1 digital audio out? I've been lead to believe it does with PCI card Audio (such as the Revolution above), but it doesn't seem to for USB digital Audio out.

    --
    "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
  59. Better Task Switching by Toolsmith · · Score: 1

    Switching between tasks is much smoother and quicker, even when switching between high-CPU intensive apps.

  60. Re:I HATE MAC'S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    are you in the bay area, CA? i'd like your ram if you are close by. =)

  61. Re:command line software update - why?? by whjwhj · · Score: 0

    So are you using the command line software update because ...

    !) You have a legitimate, technical, logical reason why the gui version of software update is not sufficient?

    2) You think it's cool? And cool overrides ease of use?

    3) You have a brain disfunction which causes you to seek complexity and obsfucation instead of simplicity and clarity?

    No *real* Mac user would go to the command line to do a software update because a *real* Mac user realizes that the command line is EVIL and is to be avoided at all cost. So either you're a sys admin type with a zillion machines to update (unlikely but possible) or your a geeky geek boy geek who's trying to impress us all with your geeky knowledge of the geeky command line (likely).

  62. Last I checked this was the desktop version of OSX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and if you really cared you could have updated yourself. Clearly you're just stirring up shit because you have nothing better to do.

    What a f*cking joke.

  63. Re:I HATE MAC'S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You only need to take your TiBook completely apart if you're a total retard. if you have a modicum of intelligence, you are allowed to install it by lifting the keyboard.

  64. This took me forever to find, for some reason. by toothfish · · Score: 2, Informative
    1. Re:This took me forever to find, for some reason. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I found it right away. By clicking that link you gave... :)

      Thanks!

  65. Re:I HATE MAC'S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And if you try to install an AIRPORT CARD in a TIBOOK (read those so you don't forget by the end of the sentence) by lifting the keyboard, you'll be on the wrong side of the laptop,

    The AIRPORT slot on a TIBOOK (remember our friends now?) is on the UNDERSIDE of the machine. Only accessible by taking out screws.

    rinse. repeat until not stupid.

  66. Re:command line software update - why?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Using the command line you can use SSH to remotely update a machine, say an Xserve in a data centre.
    I do this all the time with Linux (not using "auto update" though).
    If the update/patch requires a restart, you have to pray that the machine boots OK though.

  67. Double Checking. by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One Week isn't that bad of an update time. I am sure that after they make the change they will check it out to make sure it works on all the platform that OS X runs on. As well configure it to work with OS X settings, Put the files in a way so it can be sent for an update. OpenSSH people have developed their product for BSD and Linux so checking the update takes less time. of OS X Apple probably needs to tweak it a little. And check to make sure it works. Plus I think it was an issue that they had an upgrade planned anyways so just wait a couple of days and allow for one reboot except for 2.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Double Checking. by stripes · · Score: 1
      OpenSSH people have developed their product for BSD and Linux so checking the update takes less time. of OS X Apple probably needs to tweak it a little.

      Last time there was a ssh security bug I fetched down the "portable ssh" and it just compiled on OSX. Zero tweaking. That's not supprising because at that level it looks exactly like all the other BSDs, same calls to get psudottys, same setuid calls and so on.

      I'm guessing it takes Apple a lot of time because they have to put it in a pretty package, and test it on 37 different machines. I only test it on one (hey that is 50% of the Mac I'm the admin on!).

  68. Re:I HATE MAC'S by Trurl's+Machine · · Score: 1

    You remove eight screws, a piece of metal, and it should click in easily. Albeit it is even easier in an iBook, where you don't even have to deal with screws.

    Except the little plastic screw between F5 and F6 that fixes the keyboard (some people have it constantly unfixed; oddly enough, the same people complain about keyboard scratches on the screen). But still, it's a task as sophisticated as opening a beer can.

  69. Re:I HATE MAC'S by jgarland79 · · Score: 1

    What's the big deal about installing an airport card in a TiPower book. It's EASY! Just select the little box that says "Airport" when you're ordering your powerbook from the online apple store.

    --
    Microsoft Windows runs on stress and frustration.
  70. Make that 10.2.6... by quail_bird · · Score: 1

    ...guess i should preview before posting. looks like "dumbass monday" issues are spreading to tuesday.

  71. Updates that work by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 1
    Hey, I have a CS degree from the top school in the country for it, I work for IBM, and I can't keep this damn box working. I am not saying this to show off, I am saying this to emphasize that the situation is unreasonable. If I can't keep my machine running nicely, then 99% of the population doesn't have a chance.
    It sounds like you're a candidate for an upgrade to one of the Linux distros or to OS X.

    The great difficulty of keeping a MS-Windows machine running was the final factor in initially moving to Linux at home. I used Debian and RedHat at work for four years and experienced that they were faster, more stable, easier to install and maintain, and more secure than the MS Windows variants.

    The ease of Apple's Software Update is a real bonus it's nice to concentrate on work rather than maintenance. OS X is good on its own, but has the added advantage in that it is a non-controversial, commercial, off-the-shelf system that will work in a corporate environment. The hardware on the iBooks and PowerBooks are nice and the biggest risk is gloating about it. It's not perfect, I miss multiple desktops like on KDE, but for a maintstream office environment, it's light years ahead of Windows.

    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
    1. Re:Updates that work by John+Harrison · · Score: 1

      I used Linux occasionally for work, but much of it is still very Windows centric. I have been thinking about buying another Mac, but I quickly find myself justifying spending $3k for a box and a bunch on a monitor as well whenever I go to apple.com. That makes me fear the reality distorsion field there.

  72. Question: Not nice by sg3000 · · Score: 1

    Maybe I can ask a Unix neophyte question without getting flamed (this is Slashdot, of course)

    When I first got my PowerBook G4 (17"), it was really fast. Over the months it seemed to get noticeably slower. I always run the CPU monitor in the Dock, and I found that it was becoming more common to see the "Niced" processes appear on the graph, particularly after a reboot, when everything is getting set up.

    As usual, after a system update (like with 10.2.8), it would seem that things would get faster, and I'm not noticing any niced processes, or at least not as frequently.

    My question is why would niced processes appear more often, and what does a system update do to make them go away? I don't haven't adjusted the nice values of any application manually, and I run Disk First Aid and Repair Permissions fairly regularly.

    I suspect that the "optimizing" stage of the installation has something to do with this, but I'd like to know if there's any way to manually do this so I don't have to wait for a system update to get the system in top shape.

    --
    Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
    1. Re:Question: Not nice by MoneyT · · Score: 1

      On sort of the same note, does anyone know what a zombied process is?

      --
      T Money
      World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
    2. Re:Question: Not nice by geoffspear · · Score: 1
      from the ps(1) manpage:

      a process that has exited and has a parent that has not yet waited for the process (in other words, a zombie)

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    3. Re:Question: Not nice by zpok · · Score: 1

      Download Coctail to once in a while optimize your system.

      An update "prebinds" a lot of files and your system performs periodical maintenance tasks (the famed "cron scripts"). If you're interested in what that means, browse through Apple's support section. If not, just download Coctail and periodically do your own maintenance.

      You'll find all you want to do under the "System" icon. Three tabs will interest you: Prebinding, Scripts and Caches. All those tasks take a couple of minutes and you'll need your administrator password to actually perform them.

      Another thing: you'll need to have BSD installed. This you find on your original Mac OS X Install disks. Normally you'll have that on your system, but Coctail will advise you if it doesn't find the BSD system in place.

      A nice utility to just install the BSD package without going through the whole install process is Pacifist.

      Startup Pacifist, insert the first Mac OS X Install disk and in Pacifist, click on the big button saying "Open Mac OS X Install Packages" (which will only be enabled if the install disk is inserted). From there on, browse through the package list, select the BSD package and choose "Install" from the options...

      I know, a bit of work, but it is worth your while.

      --
      I think, therefore I am...I think.
    4. Re:Question: Not nice by ahunter · · Score: 1

      Mainly what the "optimizing" stage of installation is concerned with is updating the prebindings of various applications. You can do this manually with the redo_prebinding command if you like - if there's a problem with prebinding, it'll show up in system.log as a lot of fix_prebinding messages (though sometimes these are normal). I think this can happen if the dates of certain files change, even if the contents do not - if there is a problem, it will slow down the launch time of applications.

      With OS X the biggest source of slowdown for me has been HFS+, though. Apple's fsck is really subpar and can leave a disk full of errors (some of which can cause kernel panics). Something like Diskwarrior is a must.

      Andrew.

    5. Re:Question: Not nice by oDDmON+oUT · · Score: 1

      Perhaps this will help:

      "The Unix subsystems on Mac OS X were originally written for machines that were typically never shut off. Mac OS X inherits this assumption in version 1.x, and has many system maintenance tasks that are scheduled to run between 3 am and 5 am. In addition, there are scripts designed to run weekly on weekends, and once a month in the middle of the night.

      If these maintenance tasks are never run (such as on a laptop that is always shut off at night), many log files and system database will grow extremely large or fail to get backed up."

      Mac Janitor fight this problem. Find it here.

      --
      Some days it's just not worth
      chewing through my restraints.
    6. Re:Question: Not nice by porkchop_d_clown · · Score: 1

      A zombie is a process whose mother has died. For example, say you open a terminal, then in the terminal you start PICO. Then you somehow manage to crash the terminal. PICO will hang around as a zombie.

  73. Re:command line software update - why?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, some of us just happen to be at work and would like to update our home machines before we get home :)

  74. Try the Update Combo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    When the incremental updates produce funny results (any iBook owners remember the "low battery" warning disappearing after updating to [IIRC] 10.2.5?), you might want to try an Update Combo. Only 97MB!

  75. OS X upgrades well worth the money by hayne · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    My boss knows about Jaguar, but his opinion is that he shouldn't have to upgrade only a year after purchasing the Mac
    As others have said, it is likely that there will be a security patch for 10.1 soon.

    But I would say that it isn't a question of having to upgrade - your boss ought to want to upgrade to Jaguar (and soon to Panther). I don't know what you pay your staff, but in most environments, $129 is a very cheap price to pay for the increased productivity (and worker satisfaction) you get with each OS X upgrade.

    1. Re:OS X upgrades well worth the money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't have to, but I sure want to, buy a Gulf Stream V.

  76. Re:I HATE MAC'S by trianglecat · · Score: 1

    No no no....

    the airport card goes into the PCMCIA slot just like any other card. If it does not fit, you should fold it then insert it.

  77. Anyone know what changed in Classic? by llamafirst · · Score: 1

    The official Apple thing said it changed "Classic Compatibility" and after installing it wanted to "update resources" in Classic.

    But what did it *change* in Classic? Anyone have any info on this?

    I use Classic all the time for Adobe FrameMaker 7, which crashes about once a day, sometimes because it gets confused about window ordering and then all OS X apps get stuck. Sometimes I have to do a hard restart because I can't even force quit. :-(

    BTW, for those who use FrameMaker, my data integrity tricks are (1) set the auto save to save once a minute (2) use Retrospect to backup (to a file, not using the network) that directory every hour, with compression, and skipping .auto and .backup files. For the love of God, I hope Adobe makes a native OS X version eventually.

    I hear they moved their whole engineering team to India but they haven't made a formal announcement about whether the new team will support OS X. Since they had a UNIX version, you'd think they could leverage that to make a minimally functioning Panther version (X windows is built in to 10.3) easily enough, but I dunno. (Anyone else know?)

  78. 10.2.8 broke my network connection by Bioinfo · · Score: 1

    I guess it had to happen sometime.

    This morning I updated to 10.2.8 via Software Update. Now I have no internet connection. I suppose that fixes the ssh DoS problem!

    The low-level connection seems fine. Network Utility reports a 100MB active connection with packest sent and recieved just fine. The Network setup is OK. However, I can't find the DNS servers, DHCP doesn't work, nothing.

    I guess its back to the backup copy and try again.

    Of course, I may not be the only one - perhaps I'm the only one with access to a second machine close at hand.

    Is anyone out there not there? Raise your hands...

    1. Re:10.2.8 broke my network connection by zpok · · Score: 1

      What machine do you have?

      Sometimes these things are machine-specific. I've had quite a few printing problems over USB with a Cube. Although not officially acknowledged by Apple, some people seemed to know this was "typical".

      BTW, using DHCP right now, no problem whatsoever.

      --
      I think, therefore I am...I think.
  79. You're behind by two by daveschroeder · · Score: 2, Informative

    See Apple's Security page:

    Mac OS X 10.2.8

    OpenSSH: Addresses CAN-2003-0693, CAN-2003-0695, and CAN-2003-0682 to fix buffer management errors in OpenSSH's sshd versions prior to 3.7.1

    sendmail: Addresses CAN-2003-0694 and CAN-2003-0681 to fix a buffer overflow in address parsing, as well as a potential buffer overflow in ruleset parsing.

    fb_realpath(): Fixes CAN-2003-0466 which is an off-by-one error in the fb_realpath() function that may allow attackers to execute arbitrary code.

    arplookup(): Fixes CAN-2003-0804. The arplookup() function caches ARP requests for routes on a local link. On a local subnet only, it is possible for an attacker to send a sufficient number of spoofed ARP requests which will exhaust kernel memory, leading to a denial of service.

  80. Combo Updater by NetCurl · · Score: 1

    I've always had good luck with the combo updaters. They are larger in size, but seem to reduce any chance of a hiccup.

    http://download.info.apple.com/Mac_OS_X/061-0677 .2 0030922.PkN45/2Z/MacOSXUpdateCombo10.2.8.dmg

    Should point you to the 92 or so MB file...if you have the bandwidth...

    --

    It's only when we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything...

  81. Re:I HATE MAC'S by OccSub · · Score: 1

    Look under the hood next time you want to get to the engine. It's easier than taking the fenders and wheels off.

  82. thanks Dell intern by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Anyway Ive talked my friend into getting rid of her mac addiction, she will definately be buying a Dell next

    So...Dell is now paying interns to troll on slashdot?!?

  83. A 40 MB Security Update?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My mom will not be downloading this over her 33 Kbaud modem.

    1. Re:A 40 MB Security Update?? by thedbp · · Score: 1

      No Mac that needs this update has a 33.6 modem jackass.
      I know, i know, don't feed the trolls....

    2. Re:A 40 MB Security Update?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What a 'tude, dude. You're flamebait yourself. My mom's iMac has remote login enabled. She needs the patch.

      Why couldn't Apple have released one or more small security updates, like before?

    3. Re:A 40 MB Security Update?? by valkraider · · Score: 1

      Why not download the combo updater and burn a CD and mail it to her? Or if she lives close by you can go visit her, give her the CD and a big hug...

    4. Re:A 40 MB Security Update?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not download the combo updater and burn a CD and mail it to her?
      Been there, done that, in the past, for point upgrades. Previous security updates didn't require this, though. Why should this one?

  84. Mac at home, PC at work...you're right by chia_monkey · · Score: 1

    You are exactly right. I still have the little "update is needed" icon up on my computer at work (Win2000). I just don't feel safe installing those things as soon as they pop up (which is ironic, 'cause that's what everyone was bitching about with the Blaster Worm. "You have to install these things right away". Suuuuure...). Yet I got home last night, checked mail and Slashdot and saw the update. So I promptly prepped my TiBook for the update without even thinking twice about it.

    And here I am back at work...I'm still not going to do that Windows update. It scares me...

    --

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
  85. Do Not Install! DHCP Bug! by Caharin · · Score: 1

    After installing this update, I lost my network connection. My G4 will no longer find the DHCP server that assigns me my IP. I can do nothing! Even now, i must use another computer to write this message.

    --
    By reading this sig, you agree to be bound by all terms and conditions I choose.
    1. Re:Do Not Install! DHCP Bug! by zpok · · Score: 1

      Have you checked with your provider?

      This typed on an updated mac...

      --
      I think, therefore I am...I think.
    2. Re:Do Not Install! DHCP Bug! by dmdimon · · Score: 1

      Try to change layer between keyboard and chair

    3. Re:Do Not Install! DHCP Bug! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But how long does it take you to copy a file from one place to another?

    4. Re:Do Not Install! DHCP Bug! by lullabud · · Score: 1

      it's true, DHCP was not functioning properly on my g4 400 either. however, it was working perfectly fine two 12" pb's here. Sniffing the traffic with ethereal showed no network activity whatsoever, even when set to static IP addressing. the error "sendto: Host is down" was coming back from pings. doing the AppleGMACEthernet.tar.gz fix resolved the problem.

    5. Re:Do Not Install! DHCP Bug! by Graymalkin · · Score: 1

      There's a couple G4 PowerMac models that break because of the update. The problem lies in the Ethernet driver update. For whatever reason the AppleGMACEthernet.kext driver broke on the update. The 10.2.8 version of the extension is 1.3 while the 10.2.6 version is 1.2.4.

      To fix the problem find somebody with a copy of 10.2.6 installed. Tar their AppleGMACEthernet.kext and then put it on your system copying it to /System/Library/Extensions. Restart your system and it will load up the old extension and your ethernet ought to work fine.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
    6. Re:Do Not Install! DHCP Bug! by Caharin · · Score: 1
      There's a couple G4 PowerMac models that break because of the update. The problem lies in the Ethernet driver update. For whatever reason the AppleGMACEthernet.kext driver broke on the update. The 10.2.8 version of the extension is 1.3 while the 10.2.6 version is 1.2.4.

      To fix the problem find somebody with a copy of 10.2.6 installed. Tar their AppleGMACEthernet.kext and then put it on your system copying it to /System/Library/Extensions. Restart your system and it will load up the old extension and your ethernet ought to work fine.


      This was the problem. And also the solution.
      --
      By reading this sig, you agree to be bound by all terms and conditions I choose.
  86. Re: 14 Steps unless you're a total frigging moron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. Shut down the computer.
    2. Disconnect the power adapter, phone cord, and any other cables connected to the computer.
    3. Flip the computer over and remove the battery by sliding the battery release latch, and gently lifting the battery out of the PowerBook.
    Warning: The internal components of your PowerBook may be hot. If you have been using your PowerBook, wait 30 minutes after turning it off to let the internal components cool down before continuing.
    4. Using either a Phillips screwdriver (size 1), or Torx screwdriver (T-8) depending on the type of screws on your PowerBook, remove the screws that secure the bottom case of the PowerBook.
    5. Carefully slide the bottom case toward you and then lift it up.
    6. If your AirPort Card came with the AirPort adapter, remove the metal clip and pull the AirPort Card from the adapter. (The adapter and metal clip are not used with your PowerBook.)
    7. Touch a metal surface inside the computer to discharge any static electricity.
    8. Disconnect the AirPort antenna from its holder.
    9. Position the AirPort Card so you can see the AirPort ID numbers and bar code, then slide the card into the connector. Make sure to slide the card all the way in until you feel that it is securely in the connector.
    10. Connect the AirPort Card to the end of the antenna cable. Make sure that the connector on the end of the antenna cable is straight before inserting it into the card. When it is connected, make sure the end of the antenna cable is secured by the small clip.
    11. Fold the plastic tab on the AirPort Card over the top of the card.
    Important: The plastic tab must be folded over the card. If the tab is not folded over, you will not be able to securely attach the bottom case to the computer.
    12. Attach the bottom case to the computer and replace the eight screws. Line up the notches on the right and left sides of the case. Then press down slightly to secure the case. Check the alignment of the eight screw holes to make sure the bottom case is properly positioned.
    13. Replace the battery and turn the computer over.
    14. Reconnect the power adapter and any other cables.

  87. Re:I HATE MAC'S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do the rest of us a favor and go look it up on Apple's website please. You obviously haven't been there in a long long time.

  88. Sure, SSH was fixed, but the REAL question... by thedbp · · Score: 1

    the REAL question is ... is it snappier?

    sorry, i couldn't help it.

  89. DHCP works fine for me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    DHCP assignment works fine on my Ghz TiBook on my university network. Ethernet and Airport function properly.

  90. Seperate updates? by beattie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why does everything have to be installed as a system upgrade? There should be seperate updates for SSH, Sendmail, System, ... and then you can choose what to install. This makes it easier for people with 10.1 also. As they can just install the SSH and/or Sendmail without needing 10.2 for the System update. Seems pretty basic to me.

    1. Re:Seperate updates? by MoCycleGeek · · Score: 1

      It doesn't :)

      Apple just doesn't want to confuse the masses with to many choices.

      If you want to pick and choose your apps and versions use Fink or the NetBSD Ports Collection. Why wait for Apple to update your software when you can do it your self?

    2. Re:Seperate updates? by GlassHeart · · Score: 1
      Why does everything have to be installed as a system upgrade?

      Because right now there are 9 different versions of Jaguar out there: 10.2.0 through 10.2.8. Allowing piecemeal upgrades would result in many times more different configurations, all of which Apple must spend extra money to first test (SSH only, SSH+Sendmail, Sendmail only) and then support.

    3. Re:Seperate updates? by beattie · · Score: 1

      Ok, the at least seperate it into Software updates and System updates. This way when this happens and there is another bug discovered the same day the point release is done, they can just update the software portion and they dont need to make 10.2.9 or whatever. I suppose they have in the past, can and will for this though, so good. But all the updates should be seperate if any of them are.

  91. Re:I HATE MAC'S by geoffspear · · Score: 1

    I can see the top of my Airport card with my keyboard off, but to get it on or out of the slot without taking the back off, I've have to rip off the strip of metal on the left side with the speaker in it, which I'm pretty sure isn't covered by AppleCare.

    --
    Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
  92. Re:Odd monitor gotcha [nothing bad] by lullabud · · Score: 1

    on the flip side, i have a 12" bp and my display settings are fine. when i went to check them i deicded to try the thousands of colors look and yeah, that really is amazingly well done. =) photographs and gradients would be a good indicator though, which is the first place i really saw a difference. my room mate also has a 12" bp and he had no problems with it either, so not all is bad. i wonder what the condition is...

  93. Re: Thrashing hdd? by lullabud · · Score: 1

    i don't know what all this is about windows thrashing hdd's... i have a thinkpad a30 1ghz celery running xp, and i never have problems with it... i mean... other than the fact it doesn't have a track pad or a windows key, and has about six "special feature" buttons that i never use... however, i'm not claiming xp runs like a dream, merely wondering what could be the problem with the hdd's going nuts.

    i agree with the windows update shyness, i usually don't want to run them. luckily we have our systems ghosted, so if things get messed up we can always revert back. i wish i had that the first time i installed IE5 over windows update and toasted win98fe....

  94. Know thy Menu by zpok · · Score: 1

    You can always just download updates from within Software Update. In the Menu (you know, that little strip of words on a background of your favorite underwear stripes on top of your screen) you'll find an option to download selected updates to your desktop.

    Once downloaded, you can install the updates by doubleclicking them or again you can use an exciting Menu option from within Software Update. You can also click the big Install button on S.U.'s main window, but now that we've rediscovered the Menu, why not go there? :-)

    This incidentally avoids the cumbersome available disk space bug on older systems with smaller hard disks.

    --
    I think, therefore I am...I think.
  95. Re:I HATE MAC'S by zpok · · Score: 1

    You have my sympathy, but why oh why didn't you download a technical document of the computer? Apple's technical documents are excellent, they have those cute pictures in them guiding you step by step through the process.

    And this only in case your friend has lost the original booklet that came with the laptop.

    --
    I think, therefore I am...I think.
  96. Re:command line software update - why?? by SlamMan · · Score: 1

    Other way around. I'm at home and want to update my work machine.

    --
    Mod point free since 2001
  97. You sir, are a dolt by idsofmarch · · Score: 1

    go under the preferences, click on importing, change it to custom setting ya dumb bastard.

    --
    Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
  98. No BSD subsystem? by PCM2 · · Score: 1

    Serious question here: Does anybody who ever installed Mac OS X really not have the BSD Subsystem? It seems like it's always been a part of the packaged default install -- you'd have to disable it on purpose to not get it. And why would you do that?

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
    1. Re:No BSD subsystem? by zpok · · Score: 1

      I actually did this. It's optional, but as easy as not installing umpteen language support options and the classic environment. Two reasons: saving diskspace and I was moving away from tech-work, and was sure I woudn't ever want to be bothered again.

      I've regretted that a few months later when I realised quite a few applications out there rely on BSD, some without mentioning it. And predictively I later did install developer tools again...

      I was stupid, just install the package is my advise.

      --
      I think, therefore I am...I think.
  99. More info on Safari update by tuxedobob · · Score: 2, Informative

    Apple has apparently improved CSS in Safari. The Complex Spiral Demo previously mentioned via the Mac Browser Smackdown, which in turn was mentioned on slashdot, now renders correctly in Safari. (Previously Safari was coloring black the parts which weren't in the blue box and were off the screen when the page finished loading.)

    (As a side note, I couldn't load the Ars Technica article without turning off Javascript. It kept sending me to some crappy ad that was supposed to redirect me back to the article but didn't.)

  100. The update has been removed... by ZackSchil · · Score: 1

    to resolve the ethernet, battery and backlit keyboard issues. My only question is: how is Apple going to get the update to G4 users whose only method of getting the patch is via what it's repairing? This could turn out to be costly for Apple and quite annoying for a few people.

  101. Optimize does indeed help by porkchop_d_clown · · Score: 1

    So does defragging the disk. You might want to look into getting DiskWarrior or similar.



    To do the optimize by hand, open a terminal and type


    update_prebinding -root /


    And press return. Enter your admin password when it asks.

  102. Rats. That command is wrong. by porkchop_d_clown · · Score: 1

    The command should be:

    sudo update_prebinding -root /

    Sorry.

  103. I just hope it fixes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...the Safari-locks-my-machine-the-f#@$-up problem.

  104. Looks like it's been pulled! by HRH+King+Lerxst · · Score: 1

    It's not showing up on my software update, or on apples page anymore, I guess they are going to fix the ethernet problem.

    --
    No one got beat up more often than the mimes of the old west!
    1. Re:Looks like it's been pulled! by DJMeatBall · · Score: 1

      and I thought they pulled it because everyone's ancient Bronze Powerbooks now have screwy display problems.

      But then again, they wanted me to buy the new 15" PB, right?

  105. Re: 40MB over 33.6 Kbaud?? by lullabud · · Score: 1

    come on man, give the guy a break! we need to band together on this so that we don't all feel the wrath of a DDOS attack from 33.6 Kbaud imac modems around the globe! i mean, i don't know about any of you guys, but Kbaud sounds pretty damn scary to me! i think that, like dragons and unicorns, they don't really exist... but if they did....? i shudder to think of it.

  106. Re: Airport installation... by lullabud · · Score: 1
    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=951 33

    • Turn off the computer.
    • Remove any cables and the battery.
    • Remove the bottom case from the computer.
    • Remove an existing AirPort Card, if present.
    • Install the AirPort Card.
    • Attach the bottom case to the computer.
    • Reinstall the battery and reconnect any cables.


    do your fucking research...
  107. Re: 40MB over 33.6 Kbaud?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sound a bit like Laura Ingraham talking so blithely about that over-hyped little storm named Isabel... before it hit and 30+ were killed and millions were without power for days. Well, I'm not surprised you're not concerned about the vulnerable state of my mom's Mac, but I am.

  108. Re:how odd (that you still can't research) by lullabud · · Score: 1
    sixty more seconds later i found the oxford dictionary definition:
    irregardless

    adjective adverb informal regardless.

    ORIGIN probably a blend of IRRESPECTIVE and REGARDLESS.

  109. Re:command line software update - why?? by iradik · · Score: 1

    I don't understand why I potentially knowing more than you about macs than you constitutes I being a Phony Mac User while you are a Real Mac User. If Real Mac Users are less knowledable than Phony ones, I'll stick to being a Phony Pony Mac Geek.

    Thankfully I didn't update any of my zillion systems to 10.2.8. Ha.

  110. Re:how odd (that you still can't research) by easter1916 · · Score: 1

    I lied. YHBT. Do you enjoy falling for my pointless arguments?

  111. Re:how odd (that you still can't research) by easter1916 · · Score: 1

    My first reply was a genuine (and foolish) mistake, the second a troll.