Slashdot Mirror
Recommendations for RPN Calculators?
sg3000 asks: "My trusty old HP 48S graphing calculator, that served me since engineering school, seems to be giving up the ghost. I haven't used it in a few years, but recently I put new batteries in it. It works, but it makes a loud static/white noise sound when it's on. The noise is not as noticeable when I hold it, but when I set it down on a hard surface, it's really loud. Then it sucks the batteries down incredibly fast (I put new batteries in it, and two days later, they were drained). Any suggestions on what I should buy as a replacement?"
"I'm in graduate school now, and since I'm taking an accounting course, where they don't want us digging out our laptops during a test, I need to buy another calculator. I'm a big fan of reverse polish notation (RPN), so I'd prefer to get another HP calculator.
Do companies still make calculators? I'd love to get another HP 48, but I'm not even sure if HP even makes calculators like that any longer -- on their web site, they're all cheapo-looking single line deals. I've read about something called an HP 48g, but HP has nothing about it on their web site."
Why does HP's current calculator lineup suck?
just change it to silent mode
New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
I have the HP48GX - it's a great calculator, but slow as molasses. According to this page HP will be releasing the 49G Real Soon Now(tm). I'll believe it when I see it, of course, but we can dream, right?
I have a HP 48GX and love it. If you can find one, get one.
I also wrote a GTK based one:
ghsilop.
Sounds like its power supply inverter is toast. Rip it apart, trace down the IC that is making all the noise (or look for a small IC mounted xformer near on IC) and do some home work. Replace what makes noise and what ic is a PWM if it has one, unless its home brew PWM inversion and learn.
It depends on how much money you have, really. I've had great results with my TI-89- it's a calculus student's best friend. The only problem is, it costs about US $120 (at least mine did about 8 months ago). Visit http://education.ti.com/us/product/graphing.html for TI calculators. Better yet, go to http://www.graphingcalculators.net/ before it gets /.ed.
"73% of quotes on the Internet are made up" -Ben Franklin
Click on "Run"
Type in "calc.exe"
Click "OK"
The 49G is HP's succesor to the 48SX. It has full symbol manupulation ability, and can function in eigther RPN or algebraic mode (RPM WILL RULE THE WORLD!!!). It is an excellent calculator.
Phus. Sysiphus.
HP has begun producing new calculators with the Hp49G+ just released. Features include: 75Mhz processor, USB cable, IrDa, SD flash card support Here is a link to pictures, etc of the new hp line. http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php I'm looking forward to getting the Hp49G+ and hp33s. Hope that helps!
Another RPN junky. (grin) I got hooked on it way back when as well, but I usually pull out my HP only for taxes these days. I get by with an HP emulator for my pocket pc, which works the way you expect it too - but is no replacement for the real thing if you are doing more than currency conversion for your expense reports.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
replace the burnt out capacitor
i can't search hp.com. seems it doesn't like mozilla 1.4 at all.. or maybe it mozilla.. either way.. bad design.
JGraham
This new calculator even uses a RISC ARM processor, so it should be fairly speedy. However, I don't know if these calculators have been made available for sale yet.
Where the Music Matters
Why exactly is it "Polish"
It's not! it's RPN, so it's everything except Polish.
It's a Norwegien fisherman, a bannana, and a communicable disease, but it's NOT "Polish".
--I don't want the world, I just want your half.
Wow, I was pretty sure RPN was something my data structures prof made up when he was introducing the concept of stacks.
My friend recently got a TI-89 and, while it's not an HP, it is able to download programs from the computer. He was able to download an RPN shell and he loves it. Of course, we are both high school seniors, so he gets bored. Since he doesn't have any games on there, he winds up putting in random equations and having it solve for x. Last time, it took the calculator about a day of computing and it would have taken more had the batteries not run out.
HP quit selling there line of 48S/SX/G/GX and 49G calculators, but they recently came out with the 49G+. This is basically the 48G on steroids. It has been shipping in Europe for a couple weeks now. You can get it here.
The HP-33S (an "improved" 32S) is supposed to come out possibly in December.
The TI-86 and 89 are both really nice calculators, and you can download programs supporting RPN for them if you can't live it without it.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
TI-83 (preferably the Silver Edition).
Tierce
Tierce
Who sponsors your feelings?
First, let me give a vote to the TI-89. It served me well in a physics/computer science double major. Second, though, let me recommend Mathematica or a similar mathematics package. Unless you're having to carry around your calculating power, a full-blown computer package is more powerful than your calculator can ever hope to be, and working with software like that will often give you further insights into problems. You can say "What if..." and do something funky like graph imaginary parts of a function on their own axes, letting you see how phase is affecting your results. Just some thoughts!
To follow knowledge like a sinking star, / Beyond the utmost bound of human thought. ("Ulysses", Tennyson)
Looks like you need an HP 67X. Don't forget to pick up the extended-length belt case.
The RPNs worth buying are:
16C - awesome calculator for programmers, especially embedded work. There is no better number system converter available at any price. No I can't do bin/dec/hex in my head faster than the 16C and neither can you. Expensive due to relatively low numbers produced.
42S - pricey, even used, but excellent. Two line display, a replacement for the 15C.
32SII - somewhat like a 42S but with single line display, not so nice to use.
15C - same form factor as 16C. At the time HP's top scientific.
11C - a simpler 15C
10C - a simpler 11C
All the above have solid old-HP build quality, excellent key feel and outstanding battery life.
Older HPs are also usable (and may be preferred) - but they have even greater collector status and sometimes fetch higher prices. They will go through batteries faster and the red LEDs can be harder to see.
Forget the 48 models, the 49 and all the new stuff. The 48GX is OK if you have to have graphing but the single and dual-line models have better UI for daily use. The 49? HP died when Carly took over. Now they make pretty colored plastic boxes that only work with windows and they have forgotten how to spell "engineering". In fact they fired all the engineers and HP is now run by MBAs in shiny suits.
(I own 16C, 42s, 15C and 11C models.)
If you have a PalmPilot, you might consider RPN. Given your stated requirements, it may not be powerful enough, but it's served me well.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
This sounds like subharmonic oscillation in the inductor core used in the DC-DC converter. Pop it open, find the inductor, and replace it - thing should be good as new.
Check out this website here to find out what RPN really is.
I hope when he wrote- "Do companies still make calculators?", he meant 'still make RPN calculators.'
I use the HP48 software emulator on my pc. I don't need a portable calculator, so I leave my old hp48sx in my closet. The emulator has a gui with all of the buttons that the physical calculator has. Just do a google search on "hp48 emulator" and you can find a download for your os. By the way, legally you need a physical calculator to use the emulator rom. No batteries required.
Probably this is too trivial - but since you have not turned it on for a long time, some electronic component has aged and now chokes. Typically capacitors grow old easily. Can you open it up and locate the source of the noise more precisely ? (Guess I shouldn't even have asked this ..)
...because they come with indemnification.
FYI, if you want to use your new calc on a PE exam, read this and this first. Basically, all calcs from the HP-48G/49G series are banned as of next April. I'm glad I already got my PE; I would hate to take it without RPN...
I think its quite relevant, I have had similar issues and if you account for the size of the slashdot population, it increases the probability of others having experienced similar issues. SO, whats the harm in tossing one into the "Ask Slashdot" queue, 99% of the time its rejected = )
I have a TI-83 Plus and I must say that it rather sucks. I want to get an 89 so I can put an RPN shell on it. I don't like having to go back into my equation to put in parenthesis I forgot and it is very slow. I need to get my TI-34 back from someone I loaned it to because it was the only calculator that I really enjoyed doing arithmetic with. The new 34's have that editable line that I don't like--it's just like the 83 style: you forget a parenthesis, and must scroll back and put it in.
Not everything that is old is bad. Are Unix-like systems bad because they are based on 60's computer science? Are Windows and C++ better than Unix and C just because they are newer? Is the steering wheel bad because it has been around for 100 years?
I still have all three, but find that I use the 42S the most; it still has the 'feel' of the old, rugged HP's and has a quick response.
ebay is your friend: HP calculators
Why do people like RPN calculators, but dislike languages like Forth or Joy? Or what about prefix notation maths like in Lisp?
While it's not RPN, i'm gonna trow out a mention of the TI calcs. Great pieces of wequipment. The TI-89s are really powerful (use the same software as the top of the line 9x, but in a normal calc. form (as contrasted with th 9x's which have a qwerty keyboard and is really big.
Here is something that is more reliable, and falls in the under $15 category, and is less likely to be outdated.
I use the TI89 from Texas Instruments (obviously), and It's served me quite well, the solve() function is fantastic... there's nothing I've come across that it can't do.
does one exist?
I find it hard and annoying to use "regular" calculators now. I have been using my HP 48SX for almost ten years now and it still runs like a charm!!!! BTW, HP has revived their calc division. See www.hpcalc.org for details. They have a line of new calculators on the way too!!!
Mecworks BLOG
Considering what you can find here:a nuals/b pia5324/bpia5324.pdf
http://h20015.www2.hp.com/content/common/m
all 856 pages of it...
I doubt the 49g+ is a hoax by any stretch of the imagination.
is a TI-82 with "Drug wars 2: extreme doobie-smack" loaded onto it.
What? It got me through AP calc. The trick is to buy low.
Most folk'll never lose a toe, and then again some folk'll...
Heh, the stsndby for middle and high-school students everywhere... You need a (free) 3rd partymapp for Reverse Polish Notation, but its a good but, and they're good, solid, reliable machines.
I have both a 48G and a 49G. I keep the 48G at work, and bring the 49G around with me to school. While I much prefer the 48G's feel (I can can enter keystrokes on the 48G's quick, plastic keys almost twice as fast than on the 49G's hard-to-press rubber keys), I use the 49G exclusively for schoolwork due to it's vastly improved equation editing, algebraic manipulation, calculus handling and unit conversion. The 49G is much better in this regard.
In the end, it really depends on what you'll be using it for. If you're not going to be doing calculations involving more complex equations (especially calculus or variable isolation involving many instances of the variable -- the 49G beats the 48G hands down here), the 48G (or 48GX) is probably best. Since you've gotten along with your 48S this long, the 49G is probably overkill.
HP will also be releasing a few new calculators soon, including a 48GII & a 49G+. Hopefully they will address the 49G's horrible key action!
"Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion." - Democritus
Prefering something doesn't make you stupid. Ignorance of the single most important feature that the author asked for does. This is like the car dealer hearing you need four-wheel drive and a V8 and suggesting you get a sports car. Both good, but one is nothing at all like what you wanted.
I was recently in the market for a new scientific/graphing calculator as well and decided on a Texas Instruments TI-89.
I have been using it for about 2 months now and have been extremely impressed with its usability, extensive range of functions and most of all its ability to do symbolic manipulation, differential and integral calculus and matrices.
It is approximately the same form factor as the HP-48S, but it isn't a RPN calculator. It is pretty reasonably priced at $225 Canadian (approx. $169 US).
The Mathematics system is upgradable and programs can be downloaded to the unit. There are also quite a few user groups out on the web. Such as these guys and these guys
Here is a link to the page on the TI site about the TI-89.
Here are some of its features:
Symbolic manipulation for algebra, calculus and differential equations.
Real and complex numeric results.
Symbolic manipulation for algebra, calculus and differential equations.
About 188K bytes of user-available RAM.
About 639K bytes of user-available FLASH ROM for user data archive and/or Handheld.
Electronic upgradability of operating system including maintenance and feature upgrades.
Pretty Print shows equations and results with radical notation, stacked fractions, and superscript exponents.
Active Calculator Home history screen can hold up to 99 previous entries for deep recall.
Real and complex numeric results.
Symbolic units for use in equations, computations, and unit conversions. Over 100 units in 28 unit categories. 20 constants with symbolic units.
Graphs functions, parametric and polar equations, recursively-defined sequences, 3-dimensional surfaces, and differential equations. Up to 99 graphing equations defined and saved for each graphing mode.
Interactive analysis of function values, roots, maximums, minimums, integrals, derivatives, intersections, inflection points, and arc lengths.
Recursively-defined sequences access any number of previous terms.
Slope and direction fields for exploring differential equations. RK and Euler numeric differential equation solving methods.
Real time rotation of 3D surfaces.
List-based one- and two-variable statistical analysis, including eight regression models.
Statistics plots including scatter, xy-line, box and modified box plots. Histograms and regression lines.
Matrix operations including inverse, determinant, transpose, augment, elementary row operations, and reduced row echelon form. Matrix elements can be real or complex and numeric or symbolic.
Advanced matrix operations including eigenvalues, eigenvectors, LU and QR decompositions.
Column-logic expressions in data/matrix editor are retained for automatic recalculation when values change.
Interactive numeric equation solver.
Hexadecimal and binary operations and conversions.
Extensive programming capability with number and size of programs limited only by available memory. User-definable functions extend built-in functionality.
Optional assembly language programming.
Command catalog screen to access and show "help" information for each function and command. Memory management to create folders for specific applications or subjects.
255 symbols in the character set including Greek, system, and international characters.
Link capabilities for data transfer through I/O port.
Powered by 4 AAA batteries with lithium battery backup to protect memory during main battery change.
Hope this helps.....
Percontor
This is why I couldn't take any interest in that HP-Compaq soap opera. The dissidents said they wanted to preserve "the HP way". But all that went away when they outgrew the "strolling manager" culture, spun off their original core business, and stopped doing the electronic wizardry that besotted several generations of geeks. Now they're just another computer manufacturer, so who cares?
If you can live with that buzzing sound, you should just get some rechargables and change them every day.
Oh wait, Google is your friend. A couple of stores still have them in stock. Maybe you should get more than one -- when they're gone, they're gone.
I think the one I was using just before my PC died was XCalc, and I have some sort of less satisfactory RPN calculator on my Palm Pilot (it'd be nice to have one that was both good and free, but Palm's programming environment is too annoying to write one myself :-)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Depending on how hard you work your calculator, you might do better to get a PDA and run a calculator program on it. If you bang on your calculator keys for hours, get a real calculator.
I use Palm PDAs (my current one is a Tungsten T) and I run a program called RPN on it. It's programmable and it has graphing, but I haven't used those features; but as a general-purpose RPN calculator, it's kept me happy.
What I really want is something similar to Palm RPN that is programmable in Python.
Anyway, the best thing about this is that I always have it with me. I used to have an HP calculator, but it was never handy when I wanted it.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Emulation of the HP 48SX, 48GX and 49G is here and it's free. Best with a very hi-res device though
http://power48.mobilevoodoo.com/
To "give up the ghost" means to die.
I guess the idea is that after you die, a ghost comes out of you.
It is odd to think of little HP-48 ghosts coming out of broken calculators. At Halloween, they can haunt people scared of math.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
As a geek, I appreciate the fact that they have had a good 20 years (!) to nuke any bugs. The technology is well-thought out and there are no annoying "modes" and menus to deal with.
I recommend using the 12c standard (gold) versus the "platinum".
The manual is written really well, particularly for those who are still warming up to RPN.
Do you need a graphing calculator? If not go for HP's 32SII. I have one that I carry pretty much everywhere with me (my 48GX is a bit bulky and usually overkill).
On the other hand if you need to be able to graph get a HP 48G or 48GX. The GX is expandable but in my experience most people never end up using the expansion packs. Also HP is scheduled to release their new 49G+. Don't let the name fool you though. It is more like a 48 then a 49. None of thoes crappy soft-touch rubber buttons. Also it is based on some ARM processor that will be *much* faster then the 48s and 49.
What ever you do, stay HP. HP builds the best damn calculators on the market.
Is there a successor to this (rpn "computer science" calculator (64-bits,too)). Mine's about 20 years old and crapped-out once, but I took it apart and put it back together (as well as I could) and, Hey! It's working again. Is there a 16C emulator anywhere?
But I have to tell this story. My mother, who's being using office machine since FDR's day, learned to use pre-electronic calculators, with purely mechanical logic. For obvious reasons, these were all RPN. (If you can call simple strings of very basic arithmetic functions "notation".) When she got her first electronic calculator, I had to explain to her what algebraic notation was!
TI-89's can use RPN.
Sig.i>
Polish Notation was invented in the 1920's by Polish mathematician Jan Lukasiewicz, who showed that by writing operators in front of their operands, instead of between them, brackets were made unnecessary. Although Polish Notation was developed for use in the fairly esoteric field of symbolic logic, Lukasiewicz noted that it could also be applied to arithmetic. In the late 1950's the Australian philosopher and early computer scientist Charles L. Hamblin proposed a scheme in which the operators follow the operands (postfix operators), resulting in the Reverse Polish Notation.
I'm afraid you're out of luck if you're looking for a new HP graphing calc. The HP32SII is nice, and there are still some sources around the internet (Amazon used to carry them), but it doesn't graph. The TI-83+ isn't a bad graphing calc, especially if you install this,
a slick RPN emulator...it preserves all the functionality of the TI-83+ while giving you the standard 4-register stack-based RPN functionality.
Contrary to what others here (your usual /. cranks with rose-colored nostalgic memories of ancient hardware) may tell you, the 49G is a great calculator despite the flaws in the design of the keys and display as well as the "new-wave" case. However, don't run out and buy a 49G now; HP is finally gearing up to release new calcs: the 49G+ and 48gII replace the aging Saturn processor (2-4 mhz, I forget what the process was but it probably was 3 microns or so) of older HP's like the 48S/SX/G/G+/GX and 49G with an ARM9 processor (48-75 mhz, probably a .18 micron process). (I think the ARM9 doesn't do quite as many IPC as the Saturn, and low-level saturn emulation will give some performance penalty, but still, this is going to be a lot faster- hpcalc.org just states it will be 3-7 times faster than the 49G, that's a pretty wide range). In addition, they appear to have fixed many of the case/key/display problems which plagued the 49G, and battery life should be about the same as it was for the earlier 48/49 series. I have absolutely no doubt that the new calcs will be fantastic deals.
More importantly....Why isn't there an open source project for a good graphics calculator program. I would love a program that replicated a graphing calculator. I am tired of those cheesey default calculators that every OS has. I know that MS has a powertools calculator. However, I think it is a bit crap. If any one nows of one please post.
Or just get yourself a PDA running version 5 of PalmOS (lower versions are supported for certain PDAs) and use an emulator to turn the PDA into your old HP48S.
:(
The emulator seems to get good reviews. Unfortunately it doesn't run on my Treo 90.
Have you ever happened to put the three batteries in the calc with the wrong polarity? This may have caused the zener diode to fry, which may be why it is draining the batteries so fast. I heard that its a common problem in HP graphing calcs.
This is the first day of school for me, and my new physics professor described to the class her love for RPN in almost poetic terms. I had to go up to her and talk RPN, which we did for about half an hour. My love for RPN runs deep. I'll share what I know.
...ok, that's good enough.
The TI-89/92 both have an RPN emulation mode, so you can choose whichever mode of entry suits the situation (although WHY you wouldn't pick RPN is beyond me.)
The entire HP line has been discontinued. The HP48G is a 32kb RPN calculator that kicks serious butt, the 48G+ has 128kb of memory, and the 48GX has expansion slots in addition to 128kb of memory. All use the same anemic "Jupiter" processor.
The HP49, for being a newer calculator (the iMac of calculators!), still has the same crappy processor, but its ROM is more highly optimized and will make the system "feel" faster.
Best buy is the 48GX. The 1993 vintage firmware still rocks, and the expansion slots are terrific for the sciences. Major caveat: no support for symbolic integration, output is numeric-only.
Also, on a more subjective level, the 48 series has superior buttons to the 49. The 49 has rubber membrane buttons, whereas the 48 has metallic faced buttons that give a nice "click" that is most satisfying. Think IBM Keyboards.
The programming language for HP calculators runs in RPN, too. It operates like a macro language, where each command (separated by spaces) acts as if a user were entering it manually. Conditionals and loops are done with information provided on the stack. Learning curve isn't bad. I wrote a chat program that used the infrared ports with it during a few boring days in class.
Anyways, good luck finding your next RPN calculator. It's a damn shame that HP gave up the ghost. Let's have a moment of silence for our dearly departed HP calcs.
Meh. Who needs buttons?
There are several freeware rpn's for Palm OS.
i might be interested in selling my 32SII
Support Objectivism and the United States,
Ayn Rand
[duck a rotten fruit]
--
Mad science! Robots! Underwear! Cute girls! Full comic online! http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/
I'm an old time HP calc user (still have my trusty 12C (which is still running on original batteries!) and my 48G) I first fell in love with them back when I was in high school and a friend of the family brought his old (pocket size LED display model, not sure which) HP over and taught me how to use it.
I recently got a Palm OS device I can use, a Treo 300 (I'm Graffiti-challenged - way to sloppy a handwriter to ever train myself to make the symbols consistently enough) and have been looking around for a good RPN calculator for it. So far I'm using RPN, a simple RPN calc released freely under the GPL, but I've also discovered another one that I'm tempted to check out even though it's probably way more than I actually need these days. From the sound of it, if this calc is all it claims to be, it may be exactly what the poster was looking for (if he/she has a Palm device). There are also several other versions for whatever your needs.
I am not associated with Infinity Softwaorks, the developers of this calculator. In fact I haven't even tried the calculator I mentioned, I just happened to have discovered it recently and thought it was relevant.
Information doesn't want to be anthropomorphized anymore.
Mine still works. It's sitting right here on my desk. Screw those newfangled models. Nothing beats hacking on an HP41CV.
-- Will program for bandwidth
Since your're in business school, buy a calculator that is specifically setup to support you in completing the coursework.
I used a TI BA2 when working on my MBA/MHA and it was an excellent fit for the coursework. You won't need the TI89s and other scientific calculators (they're overkill for b-school classes).
Here, I'll do the hard part for you
This is worth an Ask Slashdot?
--
You Forth (heart) if honk then.
(A note for the ignorant - Forth also uses RPN.)
Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
While reading that comment, the song that started playing on a mix CD I just made was "Fixed Income," which just happens to be a track from "The Private Press." Is this a sign?
I think Mulder said it best when he remarked, "If coincidences are just coincidences, then why do they feel so contrived? Also, you should buy an HP calculator."
The neutrality of this sig is disputed.
An Xscale based PalmOS PDA and PowerCalculator?
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
sounds like you have geekiest vibrator on the planet
sell it on ebay to lonely housewives/ star trek fans as a star trek vibrator
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I saw HP 12C accounting calculators in blister packs at Target two weeks ago. I kid you not! That gets you the nice feedback keys and RPN, although it's not got the scientific/engineering functions you're probably used to. And it only shows one register in the display, which is a pain. Happily, my own 48s is still ticking away.
I'm in the same boat. I've returned to engineering graduate school after 7 years, and I've found an HP calculator emulator at the following website: http://power48.mobilevoodoo.com/
It works really well. Hope this helps.
It's sweet. It doesn't do graphing but it's a well made RPN calculator. Once you get used to RPN, there's no going back.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
My girlfriend was recently in the same position as you are in: Her HP 32SII of 14 years was fading and she didn't know what to do... She ended up finding several for sale on eBay and is now very happy! Just a thought...
You probably have laptop. Or PDA. Use it for "graphic" stuff and buy only a basic calculator.
I study in university, where graphic calculators are not allowed (you can really do *much* more then programs in the memory) and it really learned me to learn the formulas and conversions and all the other stuff you do with your calculator.
What I'm trying to say, is that calculator should help you with your basic stuff (1+2, sin(0.4)) and not do complex functions for you. If you want some real processing power, try OpenOffice, M$ Excel or GNUmeric instead. You are much better of learning to do that yourself.
(Yes, I know, it helps to see figures, but they don't come handy after college degree)
Buy new(alkaline) batteries for it. I kid you not, it'll speed it up- if you haven't noticed, performance is noticeably dependent upon battery voltage, and the thing crawls when the batteries get low- possibly on purpose, I dunno.
I've had mine since the early 90's, and I never though of it as slow at anything except menus, graphing, and equation solving. For standard math and even running RPN programs, it's pretty quick- I never felt it was a 'hinderance'.
Please help metamoderate.
Since I use a Dell Axim as my organizer/music/movie player, I carry around emulators for all my favorite old toys. One of them is GNU Emu48CE. It emulates most flavors of HP48, and replaces my need for the built-in calculator or to carry around my beloved HP48GX. In fact, through emulation I have the equivalent of a desk full of equipment with me wherever I go. It's pretty neat, though it runs a Small-and-Flaccid OS.
Dude, RPN isn't complex, it's SIMPLE; algebraic calculators are complex. Once you understand RPN, using an algebraic calculator seems totally complex, irritating, and bass-ackwards. I f'ing hate algebraic calculators; I screw up ALL THE TIME when using them. When I use an RPN calculator, I don't have to think about the calculation anymore; it just flows out exactly how I'm thinking about the problem.
That said, the calc in my bag is a TI. Why? Because I don't do much anymore that requires a calc, so it's 'good enough', and I bought it for $12 and I wouldn't really give a damn if I lost it. Also, my beloved HP-15C was lost in a move 10 years ago; I still miss it (is that pathetic or what?)
I have both a 32SII and a 48GX. The 32SII is my favorite, and it started wierding out a couple of months ago. So, I wrote HP, asking about repairs. They said that they don't do that anymore, and reccomended
these guys.
For about $40, I got my calculator back in a week and a half, works perfectly.
I'm actually looking forward to the new HP33S . When I wrote HP, the guy said that they have a 32SII replacement planned, but had no more info.
Plus:
-two lines!!
-Does RPN (Yay!!)
Minus:
-Looks like it has soft keys, instead of the great HP rounded clicky-keys.
-Does algegraic (co-workers might want to "borrow" it)
I think I need a new sig here.
Reverse Polish Notation?!?!? Why exactly is it "Polish"?
Because a Polish man came up with the idea?
Prefix and Postfix notation were developed in the 1920's by Jan Lukasiewicz (who was, in fact, Polish). Prefix notation was often called Polish Notation in honor of Lukasiewicz.
Postfix turned out to be useful for computer operations, if you made it into a stack and then did operations upon that stack. It was called Reverse Polish Notation, since postfix is the opposite of prefix, and prefix was called Polish Notation.
Simple.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I'm native Polish you insensitive clod.
...when you're taking grad Business Administration classes. Even if Economics. My personal list:
17B-IIs are getting incredingbly hard to find, I got mine from eBay, after my previous 19B had the same problems you described with your 48. Maybe HPs come with an expiration date, maybe the silicon inside deteriorates if left unused for a while. I do not know, but the best way to preserve your HP calculator is to keep using it (except for the 10C, which is the Humvee of the HP calculator line)....
I've got an old 11c; more then 20 years old. Last year the original batteries died. Granted I haven't used it a lot lately. But I digress. I bought six or seven sets of batteries for it. I wasn't sure which kind to get but they all would fail within a week to a month. I tried several different kinds of batteries and they would work fine. I would use the calculator for maybe a half-hour, shut it off and then the next time, ussually a week or more later, I go to use it, the batteries are dead. All the batteries were labelled "calculator battery"; some were alkaline. Finally due to my love of RPN for balancing the checkbook, I spent some time on the HP web site and identified the proper batteries. Viola, the thing has worked for about a year now and I suspect will prolly outlive me. Unless you are sure that you have the right batteries, don't give up on the power drain issue. I was shocked to see such a difference in battery usage; the wrong ones drained even when not in use. As to the noise, I haven't a clue.
Is faster than my 48sx, but still sluggish. The calculation speed isn't so bad, twenty-six variable systems of equations exempted. My problem is the reaction time, and it keeps my on a TI-89 or Linux.
As for a good rpn calculator, I don't recommend my own for much more than learning RPN or as a basis for an interpreter. I use Maxima as a CAS, and the HP49g as a hardware calculator. The 49g+ will kick some serious ass, and is definitely worth a few months' anticipation.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
I'm not sure I quite understand what all the rage is about graphing calculators. I recommend the HP 32SII. They stopped making it ~a year and a half a go, but I suspect you can still find new ones floating around.
If you need graphical dispaly of a function, use Maple of Mathematica. If you need a handy, durable, amazing RPN calculator, then get the 32SII. (Which I let sit next to me for my graph theory exam...again, an object lesson in the uselessness of calculators in REAL math courses.)
Insanity is contagious. - Yossarian
I used it heavily for years until, well, all things must pass. And not I left the lab, so did not replace. So finally I go looking to recapture some of my youthful splendor, and seeing the "enter" on the 30S purchased. Alas, I cannot figure out how to get it to do RPN. Any comments about what I must do to get the 30 to do RPN or was I taken in by the enter key. Shalom, mark
One of the most useful features of my ancient HP-48 was the equation solver and various calculus simplifications.
while the beast is no Macsyma or Maple, it served me well.
It is now 15 years later...what is the state of computer algebra systems (CAS) like macsyma, maple and mathematica?
Are there no rough equivalents to the functions of the HP available?
I have greatly enjoyed my HP48G. Now I would go for a 48G+ 48GX or a 49?. I saw one post that suggested the big screen are not practical. Depends what your doing with it I guess, but I like the big screens. I've typically done calculations using matricies, lists, equations, vectors, and graphs. I really couldn't imagine a much better calculator at what I'm doing short of using computer software.
There was an emulated version of the 49 that HP had provided when it came out. That might be something to consider trying. I remember the symbolic integration to be quite impressive.
I might also point out that there is good software available for the HP calculators that I have found very useful. You might keep that in mind.
Hope that's helpful.
My "real" first calculator was an RPN one, handed down by my engineer father. That makes me a real geek.
But, anyways, this reminds me of a funny story. I'm sitting in a low-level C++ class, when the teacher decides to show us some Lisp. I found this quite interesting and reminescent of my days with the RPN calculator, so (stupidly) I raised my hands to inquire whether or not the design of Lisp was based on Polish Notation (PN), which would at least cement in my mind how to treat the language.
Teacher: "WHAT! What did you say about Poles?!"
Me: "Polish _Notation_. You know, the mathematical format."
Teacher: "You're making it up!" (at this point, I was fairly stunned)
Me: "It's called that because, theoretically, those Polish mathematicians knew what they were about, you know?"
It was probably the lowest day of my school career. We were getting CS teachers who _didn't know what RPN was_. How embarassing.
As for your calculator, no bloody idea, I just use my TI-83+ whenever the batteries still work.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
This might be flamebait, but I think this is a great opportunity for someone to develop a full function solution on a powerfull handheld like the IPaq (I know noone wants to support Carly and her Indian outsourcing bandit friends, but whatever works) The power and memory on one of these is much higher then any simple calculater can hope to accomplish, and the display is color and LCD...
I really hate to run with the herd, but I bought a HP48G when it came out and never looked back.
RPN_4EVER
I sold the G and bought a GX. If this beast ever goes south, I'll be scouring eBay to find a replacement 48GX.
While the new 49G+ looks promising, nothing like the 48 series.
My 2 cents.
I had to get a 28S when I took calculus in college. That was... ummm... 13 years ago. The thing still runs like a champ.
The graphing is a little primitive because it was one of the first-gen ones, but it's great for straight-forward RPN calculations and it has most of the programmability of the later HP models like the 48 series.
What I really love about it is the fact that it closes up to completely protect the fragile parts (and, yes, my phone *is* a Star-Tac). These days, though I still remember some of the calculus, I never need to use it. The calculator now serves its function in my wood shop, where the closing-book design keeps it safe from all of the sawdust.
Frankly, I've seen the 48's that friends have shown me and I don't see the need for anything extra that they did. If my 28S ever broke, I'd go straight to eBay with $50-$60 and grab myself another.
Antiquated? You have to be kidding me. I always enjoyed doing group work with people and getting complicated answers in usually no more than half the time of everyone else. RPN is incredibly quicker and easier to use once you step over the learning curve. Anything else is slow and generally error prone.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
As for me, RPN is logical, very Lisp-like. It's wonderful!
Sorry, I haven't read the other replies yet so this has probably been mentioned:
The 32SII is a great small calculator for most everything but graphing. I would reccomend it very highly. HP is releasing several new updates to their calculators at this very moment. They have re-released the 12c and a new version of the 32SII is near.
I agree that keypresses saved are minimal, if not sometimes nonexistant in simple equations. In fact, for many simple single-operation equations, the process of learning RPN is far too complicated to justify using it at all.
RPN, however, can be likened to the Dvorak keyboard layout. It is entails a slightly involving process to learn. For many purposes, this is simply a pain. The true power only shines in complicated equations, such as those which make use of brackets.
The following equation shall be typed on an algebraic calculator, followed by an RPN calculator. [;] will be the button name for [Enter].
25 ( 46 ) + 254 - 2462 / ( 645 - 2453 )
Algebraic:
25*46+254-2462/(645-2453);
RPN:
25;46*254+2462;645;2453-/-
In the above example, you will realise that the number of keypresses is exactly the same. (In fact, if you cheat and leave out the second bracket on the algebraic calculator, that calculator edges out the RPN by one keystroke!) However, there are three immediate benefits to the RPN calculator:
Over time, the amount of keypresses will not really be changed too drastically. However, the true power is the convenience and the ease of use. Unfortunately, like the Dvorak keyboard, RPN will slowly fade in the non-specialised markets due to the fact that it takes too much time to learn.
And there are many occasions where the graphing functions of my TI have proved useful in the workplace. To name a few:
- being able to view every key I've entered before evaluating the expression
- being able to revise and edit incorrect expressions
- to determine linear regression fits for data sets
- to perform functions like logarithms and square roots on said data sets, in order to linearize them (linearity being checked, of course, by the R^2 correlation of my fit)
- anything at all to do with linear algebra, especially solving systems of equations or matrix manipulations. RREF is a bitch by hand.
For more "pure" math (like Diff. Eq.), I agree that pencil and paper are generally easier. But any applied math (a.k.a. engineering) requires an insane amount of busy work that could not be handled with a puny scientific calculator. I know you said Engineering and Physics are different stories, but everything I just wrote could certainly apply to all sciences (even the "soft" ones like Psych. and Sociology), or anything at all requiring data collection.
For the record, I use a TI-86 daily at a bio-tech job. It has the stats capabilities of the 83, plus all the good parts of the 85.
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
Carly truly killed the HP-way, we'll see if the HP brand follows, but I think it has a lot of staying power.
The calculator research center was shut down years ago, I keep expecting calculators to stop coming out, but I stupid that way, just improvements have stopped coming out I guess. I still see the for sale.
Oh well, I think the HP calculator is something that was evolving toward PDA from a scientific/engineering point of view, which would be cool.
-pyrrho
I find non-RPN calculators very difficult to use because for the last ten years (when I bought my HP48S which still goes BTW) I've been conditioned to RPN.
Using the stack is sooo much easier than keeping track of parentheses.
I really feel for the person who posted this question - I'd be gutted if my HP gave up the ghost.
Like someone else suggested - my next handheld device will be a PalmOS based PDA with an HP emulator. I'll probably still keep the HP48S though.
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
The calculator is slow to respond and update the screen, but it does have a wonderful type-ahead buffer. Once you're confident with the commands (takes time to memorize) and the buttons (their high quality makes it easier to trust), go ahead and type as fast as you want. The calculator will skip screen updates during this time, so you'll get the answer soon after you stop typing.
Once you know that secret, the speed isn't a problem (and I've got a 48S and a 48SX... that's a 1 MHz processor vs. the 2 MHz processor of the G's)
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
slightly off topic but... when i was a young geek of about 10 years old, i played a computer game based on reverse polish notation -- robowar (lousy web page, but the few good ones disappeared long ago)
you programmed a robot and then unleashed it against other people's programmed robots in a visual arena. when programming a robot, one had to keep the stack well in mind (stack overflows -- when there are more than 99 instructions on the stack -- and underflows -- when an instruction tries to do something with the stack but nothing's on it -- were common with noob robots). because part of the game involves selecting the maximum number of instructions per unit of time that your robot can execute (you can trade away some computing power for armour) programming strategies developed that involved loading up huge amounts of numbers and commands on the stack when things are quiet, then burning through them when needed.
it really was a fun game (provided one wasn't bored by programming). when i got to high school and they gave us TI-85s i was pissed that my refined RPN skeels couldn't be put to use
When I was 14, I asked my parents for an HP48sx calculator for my birthday...and got it. I spent the next couple of months buried in the wonderful techinical manuals (spiral bound!) that came with it. I learned basic calculus at 15 because of that calculator. The drive to learn how to use all the amazing features of that thing drove me to learn more math. I used to win bets from other kids by betting them they couldn't add two numbers on my calculator (1 enter 1 +). Using an RPN calculator helped a ton later in life when doing postfix/infix conversions (it's frickin' natural as breathing when you've used an HP).
I have such fond memories of that calculator (and later my HP 48 gx) it's not even funny. I waited years and years for the next big calculator from HP, hoping for a color one with a bit better programming language...but the HP48 gx was the last of a breed, *cry*.
I still regret selling mine. I regret even more that I can't find the copy of PPC that published my game!
Clear, Dark Skies
Frankly, the graphing calculators HP made are too big and too slow. Graphing and matrices are overrated in calculator design - they're so complex you really should be using a computer to work with them. But my 42S, which I've had for over a decade, is perfect. All the functions I need, plus it's programmable if I want more. Two lines of input, which is hugely better than one but doesn't take up a lot of space. Clearly labeled and intelligently laid out keys. Deliciously slim and light, but with that solid HP feel to the keys and body. And of course, that RPN speed, simplicity, and efficiency that people trained on TIs just can't appreciate.
Sure, it could use a few more features, specifically a menu of scientific constants, conversions, and functions. An alpha mode along the lines of today's cellphones would be nice too, although T9 sounds like a bit much to ask for. A USB interface to program it from and use it as a peripheral with my computer would be very nice in this day and age. But for now, I wouldn't trade my 42S for any calculator in the world.
And to think, if my dad hadn't won it as a door prize at a conference and given it to me since he wasn't used to RPN, and I hadn't learned to use it because I didn't have a non-RPN scientific calculator, I never would have known. Guess I'm just lucky.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
"There is no teacher but the enemy."-Mazer Rackham
Texas Instruments' graphing calculators are capable of using home-made programs that give the calculator various abilities. My own TI-83 Plus is currently running RPN III, which increases my calculator usability by a hundred-fold. Unfortunately, the program is not as perfect as would be ideal, so if you're going to be using a calculator for some profession, do get a "real" HP RPN calc. However, my father is more than happy to have his old HP 41CV to himself now, while I go through 1st year introductory Calc and Math 12 on my TI.
I have used a 48G since they came out in 92. (or was it 93?) I still have the same calulator to this day. If it were to die tomorrow, I would get another HP. I like the fact that it can be programmed fairly painlessly. I worked in Traffic engineering for a while, and I wrote a program for the service guys to find the Green cut-offs for field programming traffic controllers. It was just a simple matrix manipulation, but it worked.
I have a back up in the form of a rpn program for my palm. However, I prefer my HP.
Yes, that's right, a slide rule. No, I'm not kidding. They sent people to the moon with those things. The great thing about a slide rule is that if you do make a mistake, it won't be the same kind of mistake you'd make with a computer. You can get a perfectly good old K&E sliderule on eBay for ~$60. The amazing thing to me is that I never ever ever need more precision that a slide rule can offer.
Find free books.
Well, rumors point to HP releasing a pair of new graphing RPN calcs, but they aren't out yet.
I loved my 48SX... I lost it my senior year. I replaced it with a 48GX, and found it not at all a proper replacement. (Bah, graphical menus on a calculator?!) The G and GX were basically the same as the S and SX, only fancier menus. Later they came out with the 49G, which used a more powerful OS.
The new calcs are supposed to be the 49G+ and 48GX-II. See the link for more info.
But, until those are released, there is no 48S replacement currently available. If you can find a 32S-II, it's a good basic RPN calc, but it's not graphical, and not very programmable.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
I get most of the functionality by running grpn on a Solaris - x86 box. VUE on HP-UX had a dandy HP calculator emulator.
A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
A TI-85 got me through high school. Symbolic evaluation is all it's missing and that's more "nice" than "necessary."
...
I use a TI-89 now and think it's fabulous, but I remember the TI-85 fondly. I think it was a smart calculator that just kind of got ignored because it wasn't as badass as the TI-92 (later 89) and was more expensive than the 82/83, which were functional enough for your average student.
I spent many a physics class writing and running silly arithmetic programs
I did a cursory glance and I didn't see anyone else mention this, but I apologize if it's redundant.
Just get a 48GX, put a 128k expansion card in, and get the Meta Kernel. It completely fills the 128k card and replaces most of the slow user interfaces. The calculator is actual pretty much as fast as TI's offerings, but the user response is very slow with out the meta kernel.
Take a look at the Calculator Buying Guide over at hpcalc.org. You can get a 48GX for about $130. The HP-approved cards are outrageously expensive, but the unofficial ones work fine. I have the one from Klotz Electronic, which is about $20.
I've had the card for about 3 years and I've been using the meta kernel on it for about 2 years, and I haven't had a problem yet.
If you have to ask, you shouldn't be reading /.
Why can't everything run on OSX?
Have you priced a 42S lately? I just looked on ebay and used ones are going for over $200! Cripes, mine only cost $99 back in 1988, brand-new! This thing is my retirement plan. :-)
...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
It's my sweetheart. It's always been nice to me, never gave me any trouble, always works when I want it to and no backtalk, ever.
I use it to this day. I've had it since '84 or '85 and only changed the batteries twice.
I use it almost every day.
I wouldn't give it up for the world, best calc I ever had.
I don't know about the new ones but I DOUBT they are as solid and as dependable as this gem..
Thanks HP!
I don't think specialized calculator hardware makes any sense nowadays, not with 200MHz+ CPUs and more user-friendly user interfaces in PDAs. I do have a 49G gathering dust (the 48 series has much better keyboards), and my trusty HP-15C from 11th grade that actually sees service every now and then.
Looking at eBay HP calculator listings, is it odd to anyone else that the HP 42S sells for $250 - $300?
The HP 48GX is the replacement I am sure these days, it has 128k ram compared to the 32k in my plus I think its expandable to like 2MB or some number like that. Hell if your doing calculations on your HP 48 that need 2MB of mem, something's wrong.
Anyway, my HP lasted 4 years of high school, 4.5 years of college and 1.5 of "real world" expirance in backpacks and breif cases and still works. Best $130 I think my parents ever invested in my education. It did everything until my senior year in college when I had to break down and buy another HP calcuator for Finace class. The HP handled everything but Internal Rate of Return (if I remember correctly).
I didn't know HP still made calculators. I bought mine at Office Depot or Office Max (can't remember which they both look the same), but they don't handle them anymore. Guess I needed to look online. Anyway, HP calculator's are rugged little buggers. Even their business calc hasn't been redesigned since '93.
On a side note: my cousin has had her HP since like '90 and it has survived 3 years of high school, 4 years of college, 4 years of professional expirance and now is serving her in her MBA studies. Yeah, they cost a few dollars more than a TI, but they last a life time.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
Get a damn Pda and find a emulator. Calculators are just lower class computers while pda is a fast computer. Don't buy yesterdays garbage. I dont even know why schools are FORCING kids to buy TI calculators when you can find PDAs now for the same price. PDAs are the future.
if you look on ebay you can find all sorts of HP calculators.
Erlang Developer and podcaster
The HP-32SII also has the benefit of being allowed on many examinations that prohibit the use of more sophisticated calculators like the HP-48GX and HP-49G. Plus, it is much more compact than the average graphing calculator.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
I read about one vendor that was expecting a shipment of them to arrive today, even though official intro date is October 6th.
There's also the HP 48GII and the HP 33S.
Details on all three machines here.
Agilent got the test and measurement stuff. HP kept the calculators and handheld computers.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
There's also Reverse Chinese Notation, where you have to redo your calculation again after a half hour.
HP's new calculator division is based in San Diego. I was just at the HHC conference this past weekend, and the division director, marketing director, engineering manager, and lead software engineer were there. They seemed to be very concerned about customer feedback and fixing any problems (or perceived problems) with product quality.
Their first new high-end RPN calculator in four years is the HP 49G+, which will be officially announced in the US on October 6. (It's already available in some parts of the world.)
The HP 49G+ has similar capabilities to the HP 49G, but with a larger display (25% more pixels), faster processor (75 MHz ARM), more memory, better keyboard, USB interface, and an SD slot for flash memory expansion.
TI calculators come complete with an excellent display, and excellent layout. The software on them can be modified in its entirety, including OS updates, FlashApps, and other apps, which can be coded on the calculator itself OR on a PC and transferred via USB. With its large storage size (not sure exactly what it is), you can pretty much code (or download) almost ANYTHING you would want the calculator to perform for you. Why then, would you say that an HP is so much higher quality? Is it the processor, memory size, or simply the default software that comes included (and most people don't bother to change)?
Actually, rpn = contra-racist.
So named because those presenting the method believed that no one but Poles their audience would know how to spell Lukasiewicz (pronounced "Wu kaz u vitch"), but they had a fighting chance at spelling Polish.
So RLN lost out to RPN
Regards, -- Chris Johansen
for my HP 48G. Does anybody have one they'd be willing to unload? Or a .PDF I can grab from somewhere? HP wants $40 for the book, which is ridiculous IMO.
.pdf.
I'll bake ya some bad-ass cookies if you can give me that
I'm also looking for a hard case. I love my 48, and you can pry it from my cold dead hands. Or from my newly distracted hands when I can get a Palm that'll run the emulator. : )
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Translated as "I think RPN is a silly and archaic UI for humans."
I used to have fun programming my Dad's HP 41C and loved the feel of its keys, but there's no reason humans should have to convert natural infix expressions to simplify life for a calculator. Who honestly thinks spreadsheets would be improved if they contained cell expressions in RPN?
People aren't stack machines, we think top down!
For One, I, Overlords RPN welcome our new . . . .
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
..but why did they have to discontinue the model ECG-3 pocket protector? It went so well with my HP-48! And those big coke-bottle glasses too - when did those go out of style!?
*tongue-in-cheek*
Just FYI!!!
http://hptalx.sourceforge.net/ (it rox)
My friend "BBG" wrote it.
Looks like you depend on your TI-89 a bit too much.
(b^x)^y = b^(xy)
IIRC the 10C/11C/12C/15C/16C were the 'Pioneer' series, and as an HP calculator collector they are still my favourite. Great compactness, usability, ruggedness. (These would date from about mid 80's.) If you don't need units, graphing etc. getting one of these would be well worth while.
:-)
That was the "Voyager" series. These calculators were awesome. Powerful, rugged, good form factor, great keyboard feel, unbelievably long battery life. I've had an HP-11C since sometime in high school (probably got it about 1985), and it's served me incredibly well. I got an HP-28C in 1987 as a graduation present; it's more powerful by far, but overall I like the HP-11C better -- I'm so glad I didn't sell it like I was planning to after I got the 28C.
More recently, I realized just how much I love my 11C, and realized I would be devastated if I ever lost it permanently. (In fact, I did lose track of it for a couple years, and was quite relieved when it finally turned up again.) I decided to buy a 12C and a 16C to add to my collection. The 12C was easy, but the 16C cost more from eBay (~$230) than the list price of the calculator when it was new! However, it was the only real programmer's calculator HP ever made, so it was worth it.
The incredible thing is that the HP-12C is still in production after 22 years. (It was introduced in 1981.) The rest of the "Voyager" series was discontinued in 1989, but business people are so conservative that they just keep buying the 12C year after year, so they still make it! I bought this one brand-new from a store, and it was obvious that they hadn't even updated the manual in 20 years! Sure, it's not made in the USA anymore, but it's the same design, and it's a great calculator. Of course, it's a financial calculator, so it doesn't offer scientific/math functions like the 11C and 15C, but it's great as a quick RPN calculator for simpler math, and you don't have to pay collector's prices to get one.
So now I have an 11C, a 12C, a 16C and a 28C. I never use the 28C in practice, but I use the Voyager-series calculators all the time. I wish I had a 15C for the set, but it's not worth it to pay another $200 for one, so I'll pass.
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
Remind me to never hire you to write a compiler, or any other kind of lexical parser for that matter.
I agree, but a somewhat more practical alternative is to learn a LISP variant. Prefix notation is just as good as RPN, and you can actually write useful programs in it.
There are a ton of great books on Scheme out there, for example, "The Little Schemer." (Okay, provided you can ignore the illustrations that look like something out of Winnie the Pooh.)
Another alternative: one could learn Postscript...
I just bought a TI-36X II from Costco. And promptly lost the manual. Most of the functions I haven't been able to figure out how to get at despite a fair amount of effort. And those that I can get at are very cumbersome. For example, decimal to hex is: enter number, hit "enter", hit "2nd", hit 8 (which means hex), read the answer, clear, hit "2nd", hit 7 (which means dec), enter next number ... . The keys are small and close together too and don't give me a reassuring click to let me know I've pressed them. Even turning it off is tricky enough for me to usually need to attempt it more than once.
I recommend steering clear of the TI-36X II no matter what you're looking for in a calculator.
I also have a 17-year-old TI-55 III, and remain quite happy with it. I can't imagine why TI went in for such a bad user interface as this TI-36X II.
buy a used 48 series off of ebay, just make sure that you are getting one from singapore, the china-branded ones are very poor quality.....
m /a rticles.cgi?read=125m u.edu/~drury/newhp/con tents.html
I have 3 right now (two 48G's, and a GX), and they have all been been used hard, all made in singapore, and have been trouble free, and the GX I know for sure is 10 years old.
also, here are some links for instructions on taking them apart to repair them:
http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseu
http://www.contrib.andrew.c
1. When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend.
2. Do not eat iPod shuffle.
When you buy a calculator, you aren't just buying a generic handheld computer, you are buying a mathematical software package. I don't know about TI, but HP has invested many years of effort by HP mathematicians and engineers in designing, implementing and testing the software that runs on their calculators. That is what is valuable, not the near-obsolete hardware that the calculator is built from.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
No, it's not a rumour(comp.sys.hp48 is your friend).
:)
Pros:
ARM processor -> better speed
Larger screen
SD slot
USB connection to computer
Seems to be emulating the Saturn, since everything else seems to be pretty much the same.
Cons:
Keyboard not registering EVERY keypress (you have to concentrate on pressing a bit harder than usual, it seems)
Much higher power consumption
Bad SD support - you have to remove and reinsert the card everytime you reboot.
USB connection -> no nice HP48modem, etc, hack
Defaults in algebraic mode, manuals only for algebraic mode.
Still haven't found the way to program the ARM directly.
Many of the cons seem to be solvable with ROM updates, so wait and pray for HP to fix them
Try Corewar @ www.koth.org - rec.games.corewar
As any programmer knows RPN was created to make the user interface more hostile at the benefit of a calculator.
Yes, HP choose to make their calculators RPN for easier implementation, but they found that users who became accustomed to RPN (mostly) did not want to go back to infix.
I personally find RPN easier, and I choose to use what's easy for me.
Any paradigm requires learning.
All the popwerful calculators now have full editable formula input screens complete with PARENS.
And yet, I still find RPN easier.
The parenthesis is a safe adn [sic] metally (mentally?) clean way to show precedence without the awkward postfix RPN (Reverse Polish Notation) idiocy of older calcualtors.
I find the stack a safe and mentally clean way to perform complex calculations.
The amrketplace has spoken.
The marketplace is made of sheep. The number of people using a particular technique is not always the best measure of that technique's merits.
With modern desktop computers, people prefer to "indicate' rather than 'regurgitate" and use mice and not syntax-error-prone command lines.
The Mac mouse won the command line wars, and the parenthesis and pretty "graphing" 16 dollar casios won the calculator war.
The commandline was brought back to the Mac. Not everyone uses it, but it sure as heck is handy to have.
I'm a kde user. 95% of my interaction with the computer is GUI based, but for the other 5% I need a commandline.
Its time to use PRN as a silly Palm Pilor calculator applet as they exist now. Iam sure there are several freeware RPN calculator programs for PalmOS.
This is the most sensible paragraph of your post. I agree that it's better to integrate one's calculator with one's PDA, thus reducing the number of physical objects one has to carry - but only for that reason.
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
Here's how i do (A+B-C)*(D+E) in my head.
get number A
get number B
add
get number C
subtract
get number D
get number E
add
multiply
Here's how i do it on an RPN
input A
input B
add
input C
subtract
input D
input E
add
multiply
Hey - a match.
Actually, i have 10 lines of GWBASIC that implement the control logic of an RPN calculator.
OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
Do they do RPN in a way similar to or at least as smooth as the HP48 does? I personally have always preferred my TI-85 to HP48s, but may consider upgrading to an 89 if it's truly the best of both worlds. :)
I have an older RPN machine "HP-41CX". From 1983
It work always, but it is so easier to use. I only change the battery every 10 years...
Good job HP
Once upon a time, when HP build is own machines...
Because RPN functions expect the same number of functions, ADD will find its arguements already in the stack, and change the stack to a predictable state.
In terms of assembler language, it's pretty much the same, i imagine.
In RPN, the arguements exist before the function occurs, and there is no need for precidence. That is, "+" or "SIN" finds the arguments pre-existing.
Also, in PASCAL, the way the code is loaded, the program *expects* called subroutines to be loaded in the order from deepest to shallowest: that is, the main() is the last loaded routine. Don Knuth's "literate programming" got around that, but it's a perfectly natural way to think.
OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
Yes, you can think through the process of RPN in your head, but my argument is that it's much more natural for people to consider what some abstract idea represents, rather than the nuts and bolts of how to crunch it. Meaning versus process. I'd look at your example and see it as the product of two operands, which can be further detailed as needed.
I don't doubt that you can implement an RPN evaluator in 10 lines of GWBASIC, but we have MIPS and MFLOPS and RAM to spare these days: why not have that same program parse the whole infix expression for us? And while a simple expression occupying only three stack levels can be easily done mentally, it just gets harder when transcribing more complicated expressions. Besides that, once you've written such an RPN expression it becomes inscrutable if you want to revise the expression later on.
Hundreds of people suggesting different calculators.
HP 48S
Oh my god. It's pseudo-PC morons like you who fuel the Ku Klux Klan.
I know many others have said this already, but I think the 48GX is as good as it gets. I have owned or extensively used the 11C, 12C, 15C, 32ii(?) 42S, 48S, 48SX, 48G, 48GX, and 49somethingorother. (Why? See * below.)
:) which immediately filled up the memory on the 32. I re-wrote it all for the 42S, wore out its keyboard, got another, then filled up all its memory with more parametric designs. So they bought me a 48S, which the re-written software filled up at once. That led to a 48SX with a 128k card. Later employees got 48Gs or GX's, which got my programs.
:)
Of all these, the only one I hate is the newest one, the 49. The location and size of the Enter key is not well suited to RPN operation, it's slow at simple operations, and it hangs for a second every now and then for no apparent reason. It may have scads of nice features and outperform a G5 tower, but I'll never know because these basic interface issues keep me from giving it more chances. It bites.
The 48GX is wonderful. I wish I owned one now that my 48SX has died.
*: The 11C and 15C I owned in high school, the 12C I found lying in the street one day. (!) Later, the company I used to work for made assemblies out of sheet metal. I started there as a grunt, and ended up taking over much of the design work (done by hand) in the early nineties. They were too cheap to buy me a real computer until much later, but they *would* get me all the calculators I could eat.
I wrote parametric design software for the ungrateful wretches (I'm not bitter
Eventually they pulled their heads out of their asses and got us AutoCAD, but in the meantime I got to know my little HP friends very well indeed.
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
Try a Palm Tungsten + Power48, an HP48 emulator for PalmOS 5.
Since you already have a dying HP48, you can probably claim fair use of the HP48 ROM image, although IANAL.
You may want to visit The Museum of HP Calculators!
I don't think a FPU would help. HP calculators use a BCD floating point format, not the binary floating point format commonly used on computers.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Do you mean the school is about learning things that are useless in life and even in professional mathematics? I agree that students should learn to make rough estimates in their head to catch calculation errors. Or understand what is multiplication, division or square root. But after that they should be allowed to bring calculators/laptops to class and use programs as they see fit. Spending years on mindless drills is ridiculous.
CS Students also should know what is assembler for debugging/spot optimization purposes but they shouldn't write insanely large programs in assembler.
I liked my hp 11c very much. Unfortunately it was stolen during a burglary. The nice thing about the hp 11c was its lay-out: wide instead of tall, like a normal calculator only rotated by 90 degrees. Perfect for one handed operation, and all keys were easy to find.
One little tale of me in highschool: during an exam, a guy next to me asked if he could borrow my calculator for a minute, and, concentrating on my test, thoughlessly handed him my 11c. I realized my mistake when, after a minute or so, I heard him mumble in frustration "how the hell does this thing work!!" I recommended him to borrow someone else's calculator.
My karma ran over your dogma
28S -- Most of the power of the 48 series with a much more convient case.
Brits stole our Enigma credit, the French took Maria Sklodowska-Curie so at least let us keep our good ole RPN.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
Maybe if you wait a few years until you do need one, you be able to talk to the calculator in any language you'd like....
Spend your money on a PalmOS PDA and then get Power 48 which emulates the Saturn CPU and runs the HP calc ROMs, it's free and GPL'ed. Though if you can do with something simplier I've been using RPN as others have said, for years (though it's now $18).
TI also has some Exteral 'Features' that you may purchase. One is called the CBL 2 Unit that allows you to collect real world data from various probes (Temp, v+, Light) This data is entered into the Calculator so that you may run a variety of stat programs on the set.
Just more proof that they don't make them like they use to.
I have had my HP15C since 1986 and it is still going strong. (its even gone with me on my Army deployments with no trouble)
Whatever you get make sure it has a good shell. These "cheap" impact plastic shells don't seem to take impact all that well.
Good day,
I have had a 48G given to me sans manual. I currently use a TI-85 and an old Canon paper-tape desktop calc. Given what I have read here, I am most interested in learning how to use this calc properly but haven't found much info yet. It will be used more for financial calculations consisting of fairly simple, but lengthy, operations which is why I like the paper-tape or the TI. However, I hate to see this 48G go to waste so I would like to put it to some use.
tinfoilmedia
This happens when the voltage-regulating diodes got blown off or their connection are broken.
You can try and replace them, or buy a new calculator. HP49 is a good catch, although TI calculators rock. They are not RPM, but they have better sense than HP in making the Hardware... I mean, their processors are much more advanced:
For one, theyre no 4-bit. For second, they are FAST (like 33Mhz)
how long until
My HP-41CX is still alive and kicking, and I use it on an almost daily basis. The programs I wrote on it back in the late 80s are still there in memory (is that some kind of record?)
For a college engineering course we had to do some massive analysis of an analog feedback control system. For the assignment we were supposed to use MATLAB running on our VAX 11/780 cluster. I had the (then very new and uber-cool) HP 28S clamshell so I programmed the various matrix operations into it and then went to the computer lab late at night race the cluster. I don't remember the exact numbers but the HP finished in many seconds while MATLAB spun for many minutes which I remembered thinking was pretty amazing.
It is one of those things that you just cannot describe. I guess that the best way to describe it would be the look and feel of the calculator. My HP-48SX is not just a chunk of electronics -- it has its own personality. The first thing is the obvious build quality. The feel of the keyboard is indescribable. Each key presses down with a very satisfying little "snap" sound. The quality and fit of the case is excelent. And then there is the fact that this just looks like a serious piece of equipment.
I also grew to love RPN on my little 48. Now that I am used to it, I never want to go back. The stack is *WONDERFUL*. At one glance I can tell where I am in a calculation. And by hitting the ENTER button, I can make a backup copy of a result in case I screw up a later calculation.
At the time that the 48 came out, it was by far the best calculator at the time. Unfortunately, HP then proceeded to rest on their laurels for a decade. TI has eclipsed HP in memory and features. But TI will never beat the HP when it comes to "look and feel".
I would also like to point out that the 48G series is a kludge. Having used both, it is amazing how clunky the extra features of the G series are. For example, they added new units. But you will never find them under the Units button. They also added a newer version of the equation solver, but you will not find it under the solver button. It feels like HP just threw the extra stuff not in the 48S in one generic button and said "All new stuff is here". This is clunky at best.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
By that token, I can use my TI-85 as a Lisp machine. It really doesn't count if you have to put software on it, because that requires the additional purchase of a cable beyond the original calculator purchase; the original poster should have specified that.
;-D
On a side note, it doesn't surprise me at all that you made it to state but failed to win at that level, given your use of an HP.
Here's one in the states
:o)
Remember, when looking to buy things not readily available anymore eBay is our friend!
I am NaN
I still have, and carry around my HP 11C. I guess I'm just sentimantal, I used it all though college. I do enjoy the looks on peoples faces when they ask to borrow a calulator, and then ask where the '='s key is. :-P
Casio's previous graphing calculators have been somewhat lacking, although I applaud their venture to make a 3-color model! The memory and speed limitations, as well as poor quality display, make the old Casios unusable.
Casio has recently come out with something quite different though...the ClassPad 300. This looks like somewhat of a cross between a PDA and a graphing calc. About half the unit is the very large and high resolution (for a calc) display. Many of the keys were removed and virtualized on the touch-screen, and the unit has a stylus built in like any good PDA. The curious part about this calc is that it does NOT have a built in clock, and therefore can't be used as an organizer!
The TI-89, TI-92+, and TI Voyage 200 all have clock buit in, and TI has recently come out with an organizer/calendar/tasklist/addressbook application to load on it. This is what really got me...all the speed and power of a TI calc, tons of applications, and the one I got...the Voyage 200...has a QWERTY keyboard and enough memory (2.7MB) to hold lots of games/programs. The TI-89, while having the added benefit of compactness (and being allowed on standardized tests) has an ABCDE keyboard going across the rows and is more difficult to enter text on, has less than .8MB of RAM, and about half the pixels of the Voyage 200.
Still, if you need a calc for use on the SATs/ACTs I'd recommend the TI-89, otherwise the TI Voyage 200.
Keep your eye on Casio's ClassPad series, though...I think the next iteration of this calculator could really take off if they listened to some user feedback about key layout and PDA functionality!!
Read about it here It had trig and RPN and cost $399 in the 1970s.
- Imagimath
- MathU
- PowerOne
- And even a few freeware programs.
I haven't tried them -- I manage with the Calc+ that came with my old Visor -- but they're certainly worth considering if you own a Palm PDA.===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
While we're having out the HP vs. TI flame war, let me add my kindling...
I have been a user of the TI-series of graphing calculators since they first came out with the TI-85/TI-82 line when I was in high school. My Physics teacher even did work for TI over the summers testing out their "new-fangled" (back then) IR sensors, radar sensors, and the 'CBL' which was basically a hand-held data collection microcontroller that could feed data directly into the TI calc's. Since then, (and since doing regular physics expirements with those instruments BECAUSE he had TI's backing for testing the instruments) I have always preferred TI. But that's not to say I wouldn't change given a better tool.
I currently have a TI-89, and use it for exactly what you described: checking my "equation set-up" before actually calculating. Seriously, who wants to enter thirteen different phasors in some big long equation and hit simply to find out that they flipped a '+' to '-' accidentally? I'm in school for engineering right now, and working full-time as a business analyst doing statistical analysis all day. Do you think I have time to do all the many calculations I do by hand all the time? NO! I also don't care much to worry about how the answer is found, just that it's right, and with the new TI's and their ability to display the entire equation after you've entered it in what I call "human readable format", I can be assured that I entered the equation correctly.
So for those of you '31337' pencil pushers out there, just realize that some of us are trying to get some REAL WORK done during the day and don't have the time to do it the old-fashioned way. I learned the basics, why waste time using the "old way" to do the math when I've got a better tool for it now?
Also, claiming the HP-48 or whatever is superior because it was the "best" back in it's heyday, is like claiming that "640k is enough RAM for ANYBODY!" Get with the times and use the best tool out there. Quit arguing about the brand name.
Learn to use the order-of-magnitude abbreviations correctly, please. The abbreviation 'm' is 'milli-' -- 1/1000. 48 to 75 millihertz is ridiculous. The abbreviation 'M' is 'mega' -- 1,000,000; 48 to 75 megahertz is more rational. Capitalization is important; an error of nine orders of magnitude is embarrassing.
Or, as John Ball commented in his book Algorithms for RPN Calculators, calling it RPN because no one would be able to either spell or pronounce 'zciweisakuL'...
Same here. I got my HP-41 as a high school graduation present in 1986, before going off to Stevens. Love it.
Of course, it was the next year that the big fold out graphing models starting showing up in people's hands. I've never wanted a graphing calc, but I did borrow a buddies for the matrix functions a few times.
I still use the 41 as my desktop calc. At this point I do more programming, and would love to track down a hex option for it.
I still love that games pack. I still occasionaly play pinball on it. (Yes, you can play pinball on a 1 line calculator !)
If you can find a good used one of either, get it. I've got both, and they've worked for me for nearly 20 years. I like the clam shell design, and it gives more room for keys. I've got one of the 48's, but I hardly ever use it.
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
I had a 28s and a 48SX. I loved both. I think I am putting the 49g+ on my xmas list! ;) I have not had a calculator for a while and beyond basic 4 banger use, I have not found a good program for my Pocket PC. This thing will be pretty cool. Wonder what I can make it do? Beyond the math things, the HP calcs were cool because you can do other things with them. Back on my 48sx, we used to store things like phone numbers and even write programs to draw pictures that did not look like a math problem! :) I also had a IR printer that printed out your results on thermal paper. Alas, my 48sx did not die, but it was lost out of a rip in my backpack back in college. I still remember annoying my classmates with the beeps when I first got it and could not figure out how to turn them off! ;)
Gorkman
I need new batteries for mine but it probably still works. Ah, college! I remember those good old days. Sitting up all night in the dorm writing an unbeatable tic-tac-toe game for the HP41CV.
It's time to get new batteries for that thing.
http://www.fixthatcalc.com/ MM
There is a free Java Applet for an RPN calculator at http://www.cohort.com/CoCalc.html.
TIGCC.
TIGCC is based on GCC 3.2 but cross-compiles for TI-89/92+/Voyage 200 calculators. It includes a mostly complete C library, plus a TIOS syscall library and some graphics functions.
I don't think I've used the math features of my TI-89 since my last physics class, but I've been happily hacking away as late as this past week. Some of the stuff I've done is here, including a 3D maze game a la Wolfenstein 3D (but with no shooting, yet).
The "pretty print" represents equations like we write them, and the storage options are phenomenal. You can store huge gobs of equations into sensible variable names. Huge matrix operations are a breeze.
If you don't want the huge keyboard, get the TI-89.
You don't know what you're missing.
postmodernsideshow.com
I'd buy a second 16C if HP started making them again, so I could have one for the office and one for home.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
The HP-48 series calculators are still available! You can find them on ebay (where I got mine) as well as most university bookstores, and other places. Don't bother looking at Office Depot and the like, because TI has fairly well infiltrated the mainstream market. I recently bought a new HP-48GX and it is an excellent product, and also bought an extender plugin from Chotkeh, for the EIT (FE) exam. ( http://www.chotkeh.com/index.html ) another excellent product. I will be ordering from them again in the future. Another place to check for extender cards is: ( http://www.dvtg.com ) I haven't ordered from them, but it looks like they have very good products as well. HP has even made a newer calc. the HP-49 series, but I haven't heard any reviews on it other than it is more capable than the 48. How much more, I don't know. hth
Buy a cheap Pocket PC (see www.techbargains.com). And put a program called CoolCalc on it (www.applian.com). Voila!
I don't think the negative, backwater, view of Polish really started until the invasion of Poland in September of 1939. The Polish met German tanks with mounted rifle cavalry (which, by some accounts, were ambushed, and yes, they had some machine guns), which charged the invading army and were slaughtered (this is known to be the last mounted charge). German propoganda films changed the rifles to lances and the view of backwater Poles was born.
Anyhow, in 1920 'Polish' didn't have the negative connotations it does today.
It actually amazes me that Nazi propoganda from the 1940s still affects people's view over 60 years later.
GRPN
is a very nice rpn calculator for X -- it allows you to do almost everything from the keyboard.
I wish I had time to go back and relearn all of my mathematics in postfix notation.
I have one of my two hacked HP48Gs sitting right in front of me right now, fancy that. One has 128k ram, the other 256k ram. The hack was published about 10 years ago, and involves soldering in a replacement memory chip or two. Took me one saturday afternoon, and my HP48G had enough memory to run SPICE, PIM, and dozen other applications.
The 48G rules, especially once you've expanded the memory to something reasonable.
--- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
I'm a firm believer in the idea that it's not which calculator you have, but whether or not you know how to use it. The 48G was my first real calculator (purchased in '93) and even though I've tried others along the way I still come back to it because I know how to use it. With that said, I still believe that the HP 48GX is the best calculator made. I don't know as much about the S series as I used to, but I imagine that it would be a pretty smooth transistion to move to the GX. A 48G or 48G+ would probably be enough, and cheaper, but they seem to be difficult to find these days.
I picked up a couple of 48GX calculators as backups from Samson Cables earlier this year. He's an authorized HP dealer and it seems like he still has some in stock, although the price has gone up since I bought mine.
I had what was either a 10c or an 11c
and I really liked it. But I lost
it somewhere along the line.
Now I see that 11c models are selling for
$75 and up on ebay.
You'd think someone in China could reverse
engineer one and manufacture it again for that
kind of price!
Everyone knows that you get the HP 48Gs for the Minesweeper game...
I knew plenty of non-geeks who only knew "Purple-Three-D-A".... (the shortcut to the game), and nothing else about the calculator.
Yeah, you all remember those days...
"Truth is not decided by majority vote" consensus gentium -- Norman Geisler
If you want industrial-strength problem solving, check this out: clisp+maxima+zaurus. See also qplot.
My
i have an hp11c calculator that i was given in 1985 to calculate bitmasks for a midi driver. it's still running on its original batteries (although it rarely gets used these days). who'd ever have thought such an electronic gadget would last almost two decades and still be working perfectly?
REPORT ALL OBSCENE MESSAGES TO YOUR POTSMASTER
The ACM's latest report on undergrad CompSci education stresses that students should be exposed to languages from many paradigms, perhaps we can make the same recommendation about algebraic notation? Would students find functions easier if they were also taught as user-defined operators and operators had also been taught as infix functions? Would students be able to think more abstractly if arithmetic was taught as just a random syntax? Would LISP reach its full potential if people weren't afraid of the syntax? If all notations were loved equally, would that lead to world peace?
My Casio pocket computer was the best for this sort of thing. It was programmable in BASIC and had a 24-character display, so you could enter the entire expression (and see it) before evaluating. Made a mistake? Just recall the whole thing, and edit.
And if you replaced a number with a variable (3.14*R*R) the calculator would automatically ask for values before computing.
My favorite (useful) program would invert an entire matrix. Very handy in class. =^)
Not that this wasn't entirely predictable.
When the HP-28 first came out, I worked for Hal Abelson and Gerry Sussman. They were quite pleased with it because it had the lambda operator, and sent back some suggestions to HP about how to implement lexical closures (as in Scheme and other languages). HP took their advice in subsequent versions. The RPN function language that the 28 and its successors use is very much like Scheme, but with RPN instead of prefix notation.
I owned the 48G for about a year before getting the GX, which was a huge improvement. When I first got the 49G I kept going back to my 48GX for a while until I got used to the 49G. However, once I learned all the new features and got used to the new keyboard layout I really liked the 49G.
The 49G is faster than the 48GX, and its handling of some Calculus and higher level math is better. If I was buying a new calculator choosing between the 48GX and the 49G, I would go with the 49G.
That said the keys on the 48GX are definitely better, and the 49G has this annoying bug where it will just sit there every once in a while and do nothing for about a minute. This was really scary a few times when I was taking exams in College, is my calculator going to come back? From what I have read it has to do with a memory cleanup routine that runs every once in a while. I never noticed it on the 48G or 48GX.
The 49G+ is supposed to be coming out this or next month. If you aren't in a hurry I would see how that one turns out before spending the money.
This message is encrypted with Quad ROT-13 to protect the author's copyright under the DMCA.
I assume that your subject line is intended to imply that RPN order is unnatural for humans.
It's amusing, though, because the word order you chose is almost exactly what Japanese uses.
So your point is culturally relative, not universal.
All I had to do was add the particles in italics (wa=topic, ga=subject, ni=for, to=quote, no = of) and move "for [sake of] humans" a little earlier in the sentence.It's really only very slightly awkward sounding. A native speaker would probably have said "okashikute furui" (funny 'n' old) but I chose to keep your separation.
It also sounds a little presumptious, though, with the topic marker being the speaker; a native would probably have put the "I" nearer the verb at the end, to de-emphasize it, but I again tried to retain your tone.
Under the new rules Wolfram will only "support" product as old as the previous MINOR revision. This would be fine with me except that "support" extends to the ability to pay for an upgrade (vs. just buying the package all over again). In order to keep up with the yearly minor version increment, you have to pay for "maintainence" at $500/yr. Then when they decide to do a major version number increment you have to pay for the upgrade for an additional $525.
I don't have a problem paying for the upgrade every few years, but paying for support/maintence, that I never will need to call in on, just to have the priveledge to upgrade is a little hurtful to someone who has been a customer for >10yrs.
And yes, this is my personal copy, used mostly for fun, and very occasionally for something work related.
McFly777
- - -
"What do people mean when they say the computer went down on them?" -Marilyn Pittman
Yes! Yes! Yes! We need a HP overclocking site right NOW!
You could at least try opening it up to see if there's big (relative to the rest) "can" capacitors (not sure of the proper english term, sorry :-) They often feature in the 100+ uF range.
When they dry out they often (but not always) start looking like they're about to explode (which they sometimes do). And best of all - if the solution is that simple it will probably cost you $2 in parts and a few minutes with a soldering iron.
#!/usr/bin/perl print eval(join("$ARGV[$#ARGV]",@ARGV[0..($#ARGV-1)]))," \n" ;
Very interesting revelation, I didn't know that. It never hurts to be reminded that one's own frame of reference doesn't apply to everyone.
Domo arigato!
Look into getting a PDA running Palm OS. If you invest in a keyboard or numeric keypad, it might even be pretty fast. You don't need anything particularly new, I'm pretty happy with my Visor Pro.
:( . But I probably haven't looked hard enough, seeing as I haven't actually played with one. If there was a palmtop that could run Octave or Matlab or similar, that might be worthwhile, but I've yet to see something short of a tiny laptop with enough power for that kind of math package.
:P ) And I've also been able to find nifty programs to upload to it (but nothing compared to what you can get for a PDA or even some of the TIs.)
The calculator section of http://www.palmopensource.com/ has many decent graphing calculators (EasyCalc) and even HP48 emulators (Power48). I also remember seeing RPN calculators on other PalmOS software sites ( http://palmgear.com/ , http://www.freesoftwarepalm.com/ ). My only gripe is that I haven't found a good free spreadsheet program yet, other than something called "Abacus" that seems to have mostly disappeared off the net, and even that is pretty incomplete and inconvenient.
I haven't really seen any decent software for non-PalmOS PDAs, even the ones that run Linux
I got through college using an HP48GX, but I always missed the TI-85 that got me through high school. There were certain things on the TI that I never learned to do quickly on the HP... like creating formulas that I could plug and chug variables into, and being able to go back and edit my inputs. And the HP was just so slow... I don't think I used it to graph ever. The TI also had niftier solvers to find roots of equations and the like.
To its credit, the HP48's batteries last forever (though partly because I don't use it as much
I find the algebraic easier to read, but when i evaluate it, it's in RPN order. Note that an algebraic calculator can have many pending operators, that when one presses a key, one might effect a number of pending operators. Also, one never gets the chance to check the local operators as they fall.
Ten lines of GWBASIC implement the control logic. Exactly what one puts into the stack and what operators and functions are defined elsewhere. One could have 8*8 matricies there :)
On the other hand, writing an RPN code allows one to jimmy together special routines that do one thing, or allow you to write your own functions, and then use an RPN calculator to parse lines. Eg you could produce a document that does calculations like a giant batch file, and produce polished output. Done this often enough.
OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
Good point about RPN subexpressions being readily available as typed. Complicated algebraic expressions with lots of parentheses would probably benefit from being line buffered so you can edit the whole thing before evaluation.
And yeah, RPN easily supports multiple parameters passed to subroutines. For that I'd rather just have formal typed parameters, but I guess that defeats the purpose of a quick and immediate access calculator.
BTW, has anybody noticed the irony that stack based floating point arithmetic is generally deprecated on the latest Intel and AMD processors? The 3DNow! / SSE / SSE2 SIMD instruction sets are often much faster and preferred except in cases where you need transcendental functions or full 80-bit precision. So you may be crunching your RPN calculator's FP stack while your computer isn't.
Linux has run natively on 64 bit architectures (Alpha, SPARC, MIPS etc etc) since almost the beginning. All of the GNU tools are 64-bit clean and always have been, AFAIK. I know for sure Gnome compiles without change for 64-bit arch, I would assume KDE does as well.
"You could even start at the right and work to the left I think."
As I thought about this I realized that it is not possible to work from right to left in RPN without thinking about the equation and tracking the parentheses. Sorry.
Since the guy is taking an accounting class, I would suggest the venerable HP 12C. The technology has not been changed since it was first released in the early 80's, but it is still what everyone on Wall Street uses to check their Excel sheets or do quick calculations (yes, non-engineers use RPN too). It also includes some handy functions for calculating cash flows, bond pricng, various depreciation methods, etc. It isn't differential equations, but it is very handy. As a bonus it is small enough to slip into your pocket and has a nice horizontal layout that I have grown quite fond of. Also, I have gone about three years without changing the batteries.
I don't know what I would do if it wasn't for the HP 48GX. But damn HP for discontinuing it. However, there is good news: it seems HP is upgrading the 48GX to the 48gII. And from the looks of it, the only thing that has changed is the body. The 48gII still has the same extensive functions library (over 2300 functions) and is still RPN. It's listed as a 'replacement' for the 48GX.
c fm ?Prod_ID=362
Here's the link in case you want info on it:
http://www.samsoncables.com/catalog/prodDetail.
I don't know if I like the new body yet, but it's been modernized. In addition to the IrDA port, it also includes an SD slot. As of this writing, it's listed at $120 and due out on 29 SEP.
Seth Anderson BTW, I'm not 23 anymore -- I am TexasCowboy26 now. =)
Get a PocketPC and then the 48G emulator - it can all be had at the hpcalc website and it runs great! I love mine - I have a 48GX and it sits in the drawer most of the time because I have my PDA with me all the time.
Regards, Jon
Seriously, get a refurb palm (these guys are decent), and run an RPN calculator program on it. There are free ones for PalmOS. Then you can do a guhzillion other things with it too, and it doesn't dent the pocketbook much.
For me, it was about being logical. I first laid hands on an infix calculator in about 1970. I could not make it work! I was used to mechanical calculators for which you entered a first operand and a second and then commanded an operation on them. With the newfangled electronic calculator, it never occurred to me to specify the operation before I had specified both operands. I finally asked a salesperson in a department store, "How do you make this thing work?", and I got a response like, "You know - '1' '+' '2' '=': See?: 3". Being a mathematician, I was embarrassed; but I was able to grasp the infix concept quickly enough. However, when I got my hands on an HP calculator, I was much happier. At one point, I had got my company to buy me a programmable TI calculator (with removable program medium), thinking it was a much better deal than the comparable HP. However, I was so annoyed with the infix notation that I insisted on returning the TI so I could get the more expensive postfix HP. We're talking here about prices in the several $100s.
The infix calculators are OK if you are punching in a fully formed expression which you are reading. However, if I am just thinking and calculating as I go, I find the postfix way to be much easier to keep track of - as I can do operations as I think of them, and I do not have to think about operand grouping or think ahead because of it. For me in postfix mode, it is more like a succession of "Do this to the number I have got so far." Conceptually, I am operating directly on intermediate results as opposed to evaluating an expression which already existed in some sense.
One problem I have with infix calculators is that they are not consistent in the way they implement operation hierarchy. Eg., on some, 2+2/2 would produce a result of 3 and, on others, 2. (I actually prefer 2 in this case, as I do not want to have to think about a stack of pending operations when it cannot be presented in an obvious manner.) On an unfamiliar infix calculator, I wind up putting in potentially unnecessary parentheses just to be safe.
PS - I apologize for my "testing" posting. I really did hit "Preview" as I wanted to test my login. I don't know what went wrong, but it probably had something to do with the fact that I was not yet logged in.
You can if you remember to use the swap key... not really a recomended way to perform calculations though.
Time flies like an arrow;
Fruit flies like a bananna
Everyone knows that you need a business calculator now-a-days, not an engineering one. Try the HP 12-C (yes it is RPN)
1. Purchase and use HP-12C
2. ???
3. Profit