Slashdot Mirror
Charter Cable Sues To Quash RIAA Subpoenas
mattOzan writes "Charter Communications, the third largest cable provider in the United States, has filed a motion in St. Louis, Missouri, to block the RIAA's requests for the identities of about 150 Charter customers in the St. Louis area. In the over 1100 subpoenas that have been issued so far, Charter claims they are the only major ISP that has not provided the RIAA with 'a single datum of information.'"
And if murder were legal, there'd be no need for a lot more subpoenas. What's your point?
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
Wait, what am I missing? I A Obviously N A L, but I didn't think a private company could issue a subpoena. Is there something that I'm missing? And hoorah to Charter Communications for fighting this rediculousness.
I got a +5, Troll
One of the nice things about capitalism is that despite the fact that some companies in our country can "buy" legislature, when it starts hurting other's bottom lines, as in this case (bad for the cable company), things start to change.
Perhaps those lawyers are good for something after all.
Even if the RIAA looses the fast-track subpoena, they'll keep suing -- they'll just switch to John Doe lawsuits...
Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
their prices may suck, they may be needing network upgrades, but go Charter!
Is Charter a Microsoft division of some kind? I thought I heard that a big Microsoft exec ran it, and the Charter "wave in a window" logo looks like it is part of the group of logos for other Microsoft products such as Office/Access/Excel/etc: it is the same style.
Charter cable sues to block music inquiry
10/03/2003
Charter Communications Inc. filed a suit on Friday seeking to block the recording industry from obtaining the identities of Charter customers who allegedly shared copyrighted music over the Internet.
Charter filed papers in U.S. District Court in St. Louis in a bid to quash subpoenas that the Recording Industry Association of America issued seeking the identities of about 150 Charter customers.
"We are the only major cable company that has not as yet provided the RIAA a single datum of information," said Tom Hearity, vice president and associate general counsel for Charter, which is based in Town and Country.
The recording association has subpoenaed information as part of its effort to crack down on illegal distribution of copyrighted music. So far, the group has filed suits against 261 people, none of them in the St. Louis area.
Charter's move Friday suggested that Charter had undergone a change of heart on the issue. On Sept. 23, after the association issued its first subpoenas to Charter in St. Louis, a Charter spokesman said the company would "fully cooperate."
However, Hearity said that statement meant only that the company would "cooperate in the sense that we're going to operate within the legal process."
Representatives at the association's headquarters in Washington could not be reached.
1. Become ISP
2. When asked by the RIAA to give out names, purposely give out names of people who do not use the internet much, and definetly don't use Kazza
3. Sue RIAA, claiming damages.
4. Profit!!!
As Martha would say, this is a damned Good Thing(C).
It is interesting to note that Paul Allen is the chairman of Charter, and has been since he bought the company in 1998. Perhaps this will give fuel to the entertainment industry to say that technology, technology companies, and anybody tainted by either, are evil? (See here.)
Nonetheless, it is important that formidable companies stand up to the entertainment industry and its henchmen. Charter and Verizon (see story) are two folks who you'd want on your side.
justen
Charter claims they are the only major ISP that has not provided the RIAA with 'a single datum of information.
I could've sworn Soutwestern Bell hadn't furnished any of its customers' information at the RIAA's request either...
Robert Bindler
A Computer Science student's views on technology.
please don't compare the coffee suit to the 'it made me fat' suit. If you have ever read more than a headline in your entire life, you'd know there's a difference between the two suits.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
"If you have ever read more than a headline in your entire life, you'd know there's a difference between the two suits."
The are the same in that they are frivolous. I've read the details in the hot coffee suit. Nothing changes the facts:
- she poured coffee into her crotch. McDonalds did not do this.
- Millions of cups of coffee this hot was sold, and very few (clumsy oafs) had any problems with it.
- Most people prefer this coffee that hot. Since McDonald's had to cool it, complaints went up.
Now go ahead and put up some irrelevant link to a crooked ambulance chaser web site. And go ahead and point out the irrelevant fact that the lady asked for small amount of money and then a big amount of money (never mind that she spilled the coffee and should pay for it herself).
Its good to see another company steeping up and trying to protect people from the RIAA. The more companies that do this the better, this issue is getting a lot of attention and with more companies fighting back the attention will continue to grow. No matter what, when this is in the news the RIAA continues to look terrible and creates more and more enemies. Many of the people that they are suiing are parents of children who have done the downloading and this really upsets and hits home for many American households. When this started off it was just mainly people interested in legal matters and people that are interested in computers that were following the story. As it continues it has really started to affect the average person as the lawsuits are so prevelant and directed at anyone. There are also many political groups now who are trying to step in and fight the RIAA. In my opinion all the companies fighting the RIAA and all the negative press against them is another step forward. I think that the current buisness model that they are using is going to have to change or those that can change it will step up and do so. Many people around the world have been brought up in an era of downloading music and will never purchase there cds at there current prices again. What happens to the RIAA if they stop the downloaders(which they never will) and no one goes back to purchasing there cds.
Making this many enemies is never a good thing for an association that relies on purchases from the people that they have upset.
AOL is this huge turd of an ISP and they get only 2 subpoenas, when the other ISPs get 100s?
...
Either all AOL users are very nice honest people (not bloody likely), or they are all (minus 2) so inane they only know the "you've got mail!" part of the internet, or somebody at the RIAA is on AOL's payroll
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
The two situations are very similar. Both involve greedy people trying to get McDonald's to pay for something that is their own damn fault.
The difference is between "coffee" and "big mac": a superflous difference in material.
Whether or not you bathe your genitals in hot coffee or eat 8 big macs a day, you (and no-one else) are causing yourself trouble.
None of Netzero or MSN users have been sued by RIAA according to the link provided in the article. (1100 subpoenas) I wonder why?
New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
I think she married the whale who sued Micky D because he super-sized himself to blimpdom.
They happily live in a new subdivision in the country, where they are suing the 115-year-old family farm nearby out of business over the smell of cow manure.
They have two happy children: Skip, who fell off a ladder and got $16 million from a ladder company, and Judy, who was driving 80 mph drunk and wrecked her car but got Ford to pay her $40 million because the firestones were bad.
They voted in the Florida election, where they each punched a chad for Buchanan. In December, they changed their mind about their vote and sued the Republicans for disenfranchisement.
I don't know what all those numbers in your post mean, but I assume it has something to do with what you think the word datum means. You should know that datum is simply the singular form of the word data, which is plural.
They stole source code from KaZaa to make the lite version, they violated the license agreement to abuse network resources. They should be subject to the DMCA sword they weild as they have abused and stole intellectual property.
I hope Charter keeps them tied up in litigation while other Software distributors who have had THEIR networks hacked and violated by them levy lawsuits down upon RIAA. The only thing RIAA needs to know is how much love is NOT there for them and chances are the majority will fall in line with any who oppose them.
Think the "Music" industry is hurting how? Boycott all CD/DVD/Tape purchases for a full year and listen to the good ol radio...see how much money they have to harass people when they break the laws they weild themselves. (Just go to the concerts, thats where muscians make their money anyway.)
the riaa claims to have lost millions of dollars. The yearend reports can be found here in pdf format:p
http://www.riaa.com/news/marketingdata/yearend.as
note that the sale of cd's has dropped less than 10%, and that the sale of DVD video and DVD audio has risen far more. The riaa doesn't seem to talk about that much, does it?
Esoteric reference.
All i can say is that while their tech support/service (general customer care) is more then lacking, the fact that they lifted the cap of all cable subscribers for a year and half (up here in MI, btw, were getting 2mbit dl's for basic price), and are now taking this stance against totalitarism , has made me a loyal customer for (hopefully) years to come. Keep it up guys!
Indeed. It was found that the McD's coffee was served at an incredibly high temperature and that many hundreds of people had complained of being burned previous to this case. I've spilled coffee on myself before (call me an oaf if you must...) and suffered extensive staining of my t-shirt at worst.
Hundreds of people complaining over the course of several years is a little different to a bunch of obese idiots who believed McDonalds ashburgers are "the healthiest thing in the world." I wouldn't even eat one of them...
The RIAA suing parents and accounthoulders could kill isp business. Nobodys going to want always on broadband in their home if it makes them a target of financialy devastating lawsuit. So for Charter, Verizon, Etc, they can either fight now or watch the RIAA's scare campaign cause their customers to pull internet access.
Imagine parents hear that one of their neighbors got sued by the RIAA because their kid was misusing the internet. They most likely have a vague idea of what the net really is and even less idea what their kid does with it. The likely response pull the plug. The net is just not that big a deal in their lives.
"Indeed. It was found that the McD's coffee was served at an incredibly high temperature and that many hundreds of people had complained of being burned previous to this case"
Millions of cups sold, but only a few hundred complaints. If it really was too hot, most would have complained. Instead, the complaints (because the coffee is now too cold) have greatly increased.
"Hundreds of people complaining over the course of several years is a little different "
It is very little different. They should have been more careful. Even little toddlers are taught care around hot liquids.
Go ahead and try to file share using dial-up you twit. Of COURSE they got fewer!
This is a very insightful comment because it reflects that Charter top-brass probably understands that the legal system is an essentially incomplete system.
If they are smart enough, and can raise the higher-level-than-legal-level issue of social good using the statutes provided by the legal system, they might be able to create an assertion in the legal system that talks about its own unprovability in court, in which case the court might - not fully comprehending the incompleteness of formal systems - look for the validity of the assertion in the social system, wherein they will discover that it is ridiculous for the RIAA to claim no legitimate uses of the P2P.
And Equally ridiculous for the RIAA to claim that by supressing all economic activity not under its control it has somehow raised the total level of economic activity. Reflecting upon how patently untrue the RIAA has been so far, may cause the courts to self-reflect upon their own behavior, in which case there may be a spark of intelligence ... upon which my sig will come alive. As my current sig is Die Die Metallica, Die Die RIAA, Die Die My Darling , its coming alive will cause the death of the RIAA, and Charter may never have to prove the assertions it made fully understanding the unprovability of its assertions ....
Sorry, if have been caught up in some strange loops. I was just rereading Hofstadter's GEB and could not help but ...
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
Not only are they resisting the jackboots, they're also one of the few modern non-scientific entities I've heard using "datum." So many people today think that "data" is singular/plural. It's infuriating- one wonders if schools even teach grammar any more.
--Use this space for notes--
just how much of this benevolent change in heart was motivated by the competing DSL providers standing up for their customers. They were busy licking RIAA's feet while the telcos were saying this, this and this.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
I sued McDonald's. I once gouged out my eye with one of their plastic knives. I was driving with the knife held, blade right near my eyeball (if you don't question why a woman would pour hot coffee on her genitals, don't question my driving habits), when I hit a bump. Youch!
Needless to say, I sued the only people responsible for this. I asked them for a measly $600. They refused. I then asked for millions. They should not be allowed to get away with this, it is an outrageous abuse of corporate power.
I do have to admit, I have it in for McDonald's. Ever since my cousin LoAnne bought about 60 milkshakes and filled a wading pool with them. Her little son drowned in those shakes. McDonald's has yet to pay for her grief.
hehe
"but a beverage shouldn't do that sort of damage when spilled - accidents will happen..."
Did you know that almost all coffee, including that served by McD's as a result of the suit and those served elsewhere, will do this? They just take a few more seconds to cause the burn (than the McDonald's lawsuit coffee) to do the damage.
Given what you said, should all coffee be lowered in temperature so it could never ever cause such burns?
The RIAA or cable monopolies? It's the battle of the state-supported corporate mind controllers!
Matt
Article says:
Charter's move Friday suggested that Charter had undergone a change of heart on the issue. On
Sept. 23, after the association issued its first subpoenas to Charter in St. Louis, a Charter
spokesman said the company would "fully cooperate." However, Hearity said that
statement meant only that the company would "cooperate in the sense that we're going to
operate within the legal process."
As opposed to not operating within the legal process? Of *course* they're going to operate within the legal process. I guess their PR person couldn't bear to admit that at first they folded faster than superman on laundry day. But bless 'em for eventually deciding to have more than a knee-jerk PC reaction, even if it's profit-driven.
Asscroft: I demand that you take immediate steps to prevent terrorists from distributing kiddie porn in the Amazonian rainforest!
MoneyCo: Obviously we'll comply in every way possible.
(examines books, does spreadsheet)
MoneyCo: Hmm, what we meant was, we'd comply by saying something you wanted to hear at the time.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
As much as we may question the RIAA's motives, law is law, and if you deny the RIAA the information of those who violate THE LAW then you may as well deny other, more "legitimate" businesses and corporations rights to what they own. Again, I disagree with the RIAA and the motives they use, but this isn't a chance for vigilante ISP's to deny the RIAA what it is entitled to under law.
A blog like any other.
One of my neighbors has been fooling enough to set up a wireless router with no encryption. If I now run P2P software through his cable connection, can he be sued by the RIAA? Is "gee, I'm stupid enough to leave my cable connection wide open so anybody can use it" and affirmative defense?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Every once and a while, that guy, Anonymous coward, comes up with something funny
..........FULL STOP.
I've used their modem for 2 years in St.Louis and have had zero problems. This month they upped my bandwidth to 2MB/s for free until March. I can't complain, they've delivered awesome service to me. Kudos to them for fighting the RIAA filth.
*head explodes*
Hello and welcome to Charter Communications' legal support department. Your call is very important to us. Please listen to this menu carefully since options have changed. If you are calling about your lawsuit against us because your cable bill is too high, please press 1 now. If you are calling about your lawsuit against us because we double billed you, please press 2 now. If you are calling about your lawsuit against us because we have not paid your program provider fees, please press 3 now. If you are calling about your subpoena to divulge the names and credit card payment records of customers that are sharing music online please press 4 now. If you are calling about our violations of local ....
*** beep *** (pressed 4)
[click] [click] [pause] [click] [click]
Hello and welcome to Charter Communications' copyright enforcement department. Your call is very important to us. Please listen to this menu carefully since options have changed. If you are calling about your neighbor recording premium movies, please press 1 now. If you are calling about our customers that are downloading music on the internet, please press 2 now. If you are ....
*** beep *** (pressed 2)
[pause] [click] [click] [pause]
Hello and welcome to Charter Communications' music piracy department. Your call is very important to us. Please listen to this menu carefully since options have changed. If you are calling about a subpoena you have already sent to us, please have your subpoena registration number handy and press 1 now. If you are calling to register a new subpoena with use, please have the account number of the customer this subpoena refers to handy and press 2 now. If you are calling to obtain a customer account number, please have the name of the customer handy and press 3 now. If you are calling to obtain the name of a customer please have the IP address and time handy, and press 4 now. If you are ....
*** beep *** (pressed 4)
[pause] [click] [pause] [click] [pause]
Hello and welcome to the Charter Communications' online customer identification system. Please have the IP address and time the customer was online handy. If you already have an identification system authorization number, please press 1 now. If you do not already have an identification system authorization number, and wish to register to obtain one, please press 2 now. To repeat this ...
*** beep *** (pressed 2)
[pause] [click]
Hello and welcome to the Charter Communications' online customer identification system user authorization registration system. Please listen to this menu carefully since options have changed. If you are already a Charter Communications home cable customer, please press 1 now. If you are already a Charter Communications business internet customer, please press 2 now. If you are not a Charter Communications customer and would like to sign up for Charter Communications' cable service in your home or business today, please press 3 now. If you are not a Charter Communications customer and do not wish to sign up for cable service at this time, please press 4 now. To repeat ....
*** beep *** (pressed 4)
[click] [click]
Hello and welcome to Charter Communications' business relations department. Your call is very important to us. Please listen to this menu carefully since options have changed. If you are calling about an existing business relation that is satisfactory to you, please press 1 now. If you are calling about an existing business relation that is unsatisfactory to you, please press 2 now. If you are calling to establish a new business relationship, please have your business name and taxpayer identification number handy, and press 3 now. To repeat this ....
*** beep *** (pressed 3)
[pause] [click] [pause] [click] [pause] [click] [pause]
Hello and welcome to Charter Communications' business rel
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Charter may be the first cable ISP to fight but SBC has been fighting already as shown:
here
here
and here
My Hello World is 512 bytes. But it's also a valid Fat12 boot sector, Fat12 file reader, and Pmode routine.
"That particular restaurant had also been previously cited by local authorities for serving beverages warmer than the legal limit (yes, there really is such a thing). Pretty damning.
You've still not made a case. I bet that restaurant had served many thousands of cups. How many burns claims did they have? 2 or 3 at most I bet? If it was really too hot, most would complain.
Didn't people here want the RIAA to leave the P2P apps alone a couple years ago, instead saying they should go after the people violating copyrights? Now that they're doing that you very same people are suggesting that the RIAA be denied the right to protect its IP? Which way do you want it? Would you rather they go after the P2P apps again and possibly get even more restrictive internet legislation passed or they go after the people responsible for violating current copyright laws?
700 claims. 700 burns. How few for millions of cups sold at the same high temperature. Clealry, the problem was not the coffee.
The "CAOC" is yet another one of those organizations of crooked lying attorneys who revel and get rich in frivolous lawsuits. They make their living lying in court so people who didn't do anything wrong but have deep pockets pay the piper.
Notice how the only web-sites cited here are disreputable ones run by ambulance-chaser firms, or political special interest groups oppose to tort reform and in favor of frivolous lawsuits.
This lawsuit was 100% frivolous. If these shark-gangs can lie about it enough and get away with it, they can get away with anything.
They are shitting too close to the house.
I know the grandson of who this happened to. This link gives an accurate description of what really happened...
http://www.newsaic.com/ftvseinfeldindex.html
"Are you saying that every person who has ever been burned filed a claim against McDs?"
No. Are you implying that there were a lot more burn claims even though there is no evidence of any of them?
I agree, the coffee lawsuit proved that McDonald's coffee was servered much much hotter then coffee should be served and thus much more dangerous. It was more then the fact that everyone should know that "coffee is hot" but the fact that everyone doesn't know that "McDonalds coffee is really freaking goddamn hotter then any rational person would serve coffee"
On the other hand, the "McDonalds food makes me fat" lawsuit is just a bunch of idiots trying to make some money.
"In wine there is wisdom. In beer there is strength. In water there is bacteria." --Old German Proverb
that a datum is like lay's potato chips... it's hard to have just one. So everyone has more then one datum, hence they have data.
I have blog like everyone else
haha
from the quashing-baby-quashing dept.
Is that an Austin Powers reference? How obscure.
Yes...at least the "it made me fat" suit made sense.
Suing McDonalds for serving hot coffee *when everybody else serves it at the same termperature* makes no sense.
The only people to defend it are trial lawyers and morons. Neither of which is held in high regard.
"Most people prefer coffee that's so hot that you can't even drink it without burning yourself?"
No, McDonalds served it at a common temperature -- people like it at that temperature. The lady in question is simply a moron.
In 10 years, I'll bet McDonalds has server 200 million cups of coffee.
Are you saying McDonalds customers are so stupid that they buy coffee that burns them?
Huh?
If a known liar cites statistics, you simply ignore him.
If trial lawyers site statistic, they only do it to drum up business. Be glad we can't identify you because someday the human race will rise up and destroy every one of your kind.
I personally think that will be wrong because violence is wrong, and I will do everything in my power to stop the madness, but you are filthy lying scum who feed on decent people and so therefore decent people can only do so much to stop the rage.
I wish you well, my friend.
"No, I am saying there are more injuries caused by this product than there are claims filed"
How so? Are you just making up numbers? Or do you have a count from claims filed in another way?
"Then you will be in really deep shit."
Well, Superboy, you've scared them into not doing that.
You are truly fine, unique and just. My hat is off to you. Amen.
Has Charter made any statements as to *why* they are fighting it? What possible legal ground do they have to stand on? Unless they've come up with some ingenious angle that might acually win, I'm guessing they might just be doing this for the good PR of being a company that "cares about it's customers". ( IE - they might not even expect to win ) The article would be 10x more interesting if it told of Charter's motives. But perhaps Charter is keeping it hush-hush before it reaches court? ( which would make sense since they probably don't have a case to begin with... ) ... hmmm...
I am glad to see this. I've been very happy with Charter overall. I use them for both Digital Cable and Internet services. They even recently boosted my downstream speed for free from 768kbps to 2mbps as an apology for any inconveniences (none) that I experience while they upgraded their systems. Thumbs up for Charter.
And if the harm caused by copyright infringement were legally equivalent to murder, what would your point be?
Come on....ever heard of apples and oranges?
Also, I've never seen this anywhere, but that McDonald's is on a very steep hill, and when you're coming away from that drive through, the parking lot goes downhill very fast. You don't open a cup of hot coffee sitting between your knees while driving down a steep hill. Isn't that common sense?
Albuquerque PC
Not that I mind them standing up to the RIAA but they realize that SOMEONE is going to have to go back thru all the logs to find out who was using what IP when the "piracy" allegedly happened. Since Charter uses DHCP to keep costs down they are NOT thrilled about having to provide the RIAA anything if Charter has to pay for it. But whatever the reason....YAY
If you read the actual article:
"We are the only major cable company that has not as yet provided the RIAA a single datum of information,"
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
I don't think smart had anything to do with the "change of heart."
Some Jack Off at the RIAA probably pushed too far demanding some information right here - right now, pi**ed off an executive at Charter and the executive started to ask him/herself what the he** am I bending backwards for.
~My other operating system is a Linux Distribution
;rem my screen saver at work
Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
Doesn't sound like the same Charter I know. Perhaps the problem is being in Wisconsin :P
I've had their service the last *three places I've lived*. Between transfer rates that approached dialup speeds to massive service outages, I was happy when SBC was available in my current apartment.
Charter ALWAYS had an excuse. Bad wiring, bad neighborhood, construction, too many devices on one line, blah blah blah. Well, SBC seems to have no problem getting DSL, which is notorious for being picky, to my house trouble free and 100% reliable. Regardless of whose fault it is, SBC doesn't make excuses (I can't believe I'm actually in favor of the telephone company. I never though this day would come!)
In their defense, my parents have Time Warner cable modem, which has a fair amount of outages as well, which is why I think the problem lies within the technology itself. My sister-in-law and I both have SBC DSL on different sides of the state, and it has been flawless.
It wasn't even about the fact that the coffee was way hotter that it should have been.
IIRC, McDonald's was shown to have been negligent; people have been complaining about it for years before and they never consulted a burn expert, or even took any type of action (outside of just paying out some damages to people).
(1) I will probably get modded down for this, but here goes. Regarding the 'fast food made me fat' suits, I happen to be taking a course from one of the major attorneys pushing this field. He apparently was a also major player in the early part of the tobacco suits as well. He uses these frivolous-seeming suits, as well as media attention, to try and further public issues.
Taken one by one, suits such as the "McDonald's made me obiese" suits certainly appear frivolous and laughable, but they're not going to stop. It took decades of suits against the Tobacco industry before the government got involved and the industry settled. Something like this will probably happen to the fast food chains - either the government will get involved with regulation or something or the industry will pre-emptively change. Either way, the public interest, in the view of these lawyers at least, will have been served.
You may not agree with their goals, I don't always, either. At the bottom, these suits are just another tool for change.
(2) Regarding the hot coffee suit. I'm curious that more attention isn't given to the cups themeselves. Sometimes cups and lids are difficult to put together, the lid was not put on right, or the lid is looser than they should be. Perhaps part of the problem originated there.
We would rather not have them attacking and devestating the lives of innocent people. If someone is sharing massive ammounts of files, fine, throw him in jail and let him get analy raped, contract AIDs and learn how to be an effective criminal, all the while draining my tax dollars. Copyright infringers deserve it!
Don't they?
Well, before you ridicule people for wanting hazardous coffee, you have to respect two very universal points. 1. People are inherently not very smart. 2. The customer is always right. Keep in mind that McDonalds is a business, not a eutopia-type of institution. They are just trying to make a profit. I would like to Address [1] and [2]. [1] says that people like stuff that harms them in some way or another (ie cigarettes, alcohol, barely-sub-boiling coffee that burns you), but that they still want it anyway. [2] says that people buy what they want, and that companies essentially have to respond to consumer requests or be doomed to failure. I mean, if someone adamantly insists on getting a SCUBA oxygen tank with air holes in it, you won't get far by explaining to them how stupid they are, just sell the damn thing to them. So, when people like hot coffee, don't argue with them. Just make their damn coffee. The coffee is obviously hot... I don't think you could get by without seeing some sort of warning that the coffee is hot. If you think the coffee is too hot you don't have to buy it, but don't go trying to proclaim to the world that it shouldn't be hot. Maybe I ate something nasty and I can't get the taste out of my mouth and I want to burn my taste buds away, I don't know. Maybe I have a nasty pimple on my face and I want to just burn it off with hot coffe...... or maybe I'm not stupid and suicidal and I just want to stop for a quick cup of coffee then have it still be hot when I start drinking it at work 20 minutes later. The bottom line: Simple Demand should ultimately determine the price of the cofee... just give people what they want. If you are lucky enough to get the 1 in 24 million cups of coffee that spill, boo freakin hoo maybe you should have thought of that before you dumped the hot coffee all over yourself, because essentially a 1 in 24,000,000 chance is not what the average person would consider "hazardous".
Partial Credit: The Engineer's Best friend
"Well, the bridge didn't fall all the way down!"
I wonder why...? [grin]
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
OK, and if the customer wants to buy hot coffee to spill on someone else? Should they meet that demand too?
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
This deserves modded to +6.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
...who have so many spammers that they're now in the SpamHaus database, and whose spammers have been joe-jobbing my domain (from numerous charter.com and charter.net connections) for the last month, and whose sysadmins competely ignore my complaints? Just checking...
What you said isn't true--McDonald's coffee was served some 10 to 20 degrees hotter than your average "to go" coffee.
There's a difference between sitting down in your house with a cup of boiling hot coffee and serving that same coffee in tiny, easily broken cups through drive-through windows to senior citizens in motor vehicles.
McDonald's owes its customers a duty of care: that's not crazy or Communist. It's the same duty of care I owe my neighbours when I shovel and salt the sidewalk in the winter.
The woman who was burned didn't want millions of dollars--she mostly wanted her hospital fees (which is fair, since, in the US, health care isn't a public right--and it also happens to be expensive). That McDonald's knew its coffee was a) too hot, b) served under conditions that might cause injury and that c) its customers were frequently complaining is the nail in its coffin.
How did this get modded "Informative"? An enjoyable read for sure, but "Informative"? :-) :-)
This is probably the first post EVER that I see that has a moderation of (5, Troll).
"The woman who was burned didn't want millions of dollars--she mostly wanted her hospital fees "
Even one cent was too much: it is not reasonable to try to get someone to pay your bills when they have nothing to do with it.
"That McDonald's knew its coffee was a) too hot,"
No it wasn't.
", b) served under conditions that might cause injury and that"
The same is true of the 10 degree cooler coffee, and of fries (you CAN choke on them). This makes your argument irrelevant.
"c) its customers were frequently complaining"
Hardly any were complaining ever.
"the nail in its coffin.
No, we've put the nail in the coffin of the idea that this was not 100% frivolous.
I have to say for myself I've been happy with SBC DSL. After waiting *years* listening to Comcast (my local cable co.) saying "coming soon", SBC rolled DSL out starting with the middle of town (closest to the C.O.) and within a year had it out to my area.
My only complaint in the about 3 years I've had it is the two significant outages I've had (other than scheduled maintenance of an hour or two maybe twice a year).
One day my DSL *and* the 2nd phone line I have it on went completely dead (2nd phone line is in my computer room, my dialup "backup" -- lotta good that did). I called the local Telco (part of SBC) and they had dialtone back within 24 hours. But still no DSL. The local Telco had no record of me having DSL on that line, *or* my main phone line... and told me to call SBC in TX.
I got their tech support promptly, but the weenie on the other end really pissed me off. I explained the whole line went dead, both phone and DSL, simutaneously. "Have you changed any settings on your DSL software?" (no... from experience I didn't mention the Linksys router they "don't support"). "Have you reinstalled the software?" (no, I didn't change anything, and its not the @#$@# software anyways! the *line* went dead, hello?!?! are you hearing me?).
After 40 minutes on the phone, disconnecting wires and powering the DSL modem on and off several times, he finally checks and says "oh yeah, we don't see your modem." (no sh*t sherlock!). After years of being a sysadmin and network admin, I've configured routers on T1's and frame relay, I think I can tell when the FU**ING LINE IS DEAD!
2-3 business days... from the time I called (wednesday), of course meaning 3 business days, so by the time I got it back it was a week exactly. And the problem? The R.T. (remote terminal, the distribution box for the neighborhood) had lost its programming, so in essence when the local telco restored the programming, they never restored my DSL crossover. Hello? Ever heard of *backups*?
Anyways, only one other time did it go out... again 2-3 days (3, of course), and naturally my bad timing over a weekend. But, as far as the speed of the connection, I have no complaints.
$25/month for a static IP pisses me off. I've thought about going business class.. try for faster speed, and its only like another $40/month at this point. Now that I'm employed again, might be an idea.
Dear Folks,
... and justify corporate expenditures for their legal defense.
... What'U think?
Thank god, there are CEOs with children at the right age to use Napster, Kazaa,
God bless those children (maybe college kids) for helping US while serving themselves. Every little bit of help in these times of social troubles is important to US.
Okay, yep, it may be a corporate altruistic act
OldHawk777
Reality is a self-induced hallucination.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
Another Troll...
I hate MS. Gimme Karma, OHOHOHOH.
Bill Gates is an evil Borg. Gimme Karma.
Please, it is so important that I have Karma. I hate MS, I really do.
I'm Kewl and 1337 like all you.
Pleasepleaseplease. Gimme Karma.
I'll bad talk whoever it takes, never mind the facts.
MS is teh suxorz. Linux is on teh spoke!
FrozenDownload is NOT on teh Spoke!
Reminds me of case a little while back where they wanted all the names of women who were pregnant within a few months at a clinic so they could check with each one and find out which one dumpstered their baby.
In Charter's defense, they have been putting a lot of effort at least here in West Virginia to upgrading their cables to latch on to the broadband market. I have been more then satisfied with my charter access even more then when I had adelphia cable access in morgantown, wv. But every person is different.
St. Louis is the corporate headquarters of Charter; in all likelilood, someone in the company would be in a damaging situation (maybe several somebodies) as an infringing modem could actually be in the headend.
They still suck though.
i think you need a spanking for linking to the word "this"
a large, wet, spanking and yes with the towel of blinking justice.
anywho, charter sucks, it's been going on for years. the difference i see is that charter is being run like a business (protecting clients), though other cable providers are dividing up the customer info. why divy up the info? because the other company cable service providers are run like a short-term high priority scam. get us our money, bring in 800 new subscribers a week, cash in your bonus. man the support lines. the cash cow there is working, but at a competitive rate that will rake in the money. 2mbit connections for regular price? hello charter! protecting your clients? hooray.
charter still sucks.
as linux sucks.
i would say that it just sucks less than alternatives, to those of you who suddenly burn a candle at night around the newly-constructed anti-RIAA/MPAA altar of charter worship.
blow out your candles, and please, please refrain from the click-here syndrome i'd hoped a legitimate poster would find the self-control enough to avoid.
what's the opposite of fnord anyways?
SIGERR: laziness exceeds quota
I am pleased to see another company stand up for its customers.
OT -- FYI:
Charter upped everyone's speed to 2mbps except the lowest rung of service and eliminated everything between. Check out their new package structure on their website.
The ulterior motive? SBC, Verizon, et. al. are lowering the cost of DSL. The cable companies are upping their bandwidth instead of lowering prices in hopes of competing. There was an article on it last week. Comcast is offering 3mbps, Charter only went up to 2...
The cable providers don't want to lower their costs, and the phone companies can't compete on bandwidth because of the limitations on DSL related to distance from COs, etc., etc... so it comes down to whether you want blazing speed or affordable high speed, and of course the ongoing drama of what is available where...
It's so obvious that your a teenager.
Mod parent up, factually correct.
Mod grandparent down, factually incorrect.
Can corps get together to form something alike to a class-action suit?
I mean, granted most of these companies are competing, but in "the enemy of my enemy is a friend," perhaps they could at least agree that the RIAA is mutally bad for business. At the least, they could probably create some 3rd-party organization of which they are all members, pool resources, and fun some lawyers to send the RIAA back where they belong.
Or consider this example:
"Hair" DVD - Dolby Digital 5.1
Amazon.com: MSRP $12.99 (US)
"Hair" CD - Soundtrack
Amazon.com: MSRP $17.98 (US)
Doesn't make sense!
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
someone could break into your machine and share from it, someone could break your wep encryption and share from your network. so you put access controls on your router, but someone could compramise your router. i have a feeling a jury would side with the defendant.
"I'm sorry but 9/11 was not as bad as people think."
No, it was unjustified aggression against the United States and the people of dozens of countries who worked in world trade company offices.
"The United States has supported much worse things."
Not since before WW2.
"Read some Noam Chomsky"
He just makes up stories. His fictional rantings have nothing to do with real events.
Hmm, well, I agree with their goals, but not their methods. How wealthy is this tobbacco lawsuit lawyer because of his supposed efforts to further the smoking issue? He may want to change the world (for the better?) but first and foremost, he wants to make a pile of money. If changes are made, well, that's just gravy.
RTFA!
"We are the only major cable company that has not as yet provided the RIAA a single datum of information,"
Tom Hearity use 'we are' to describe a single company, and Tom IS NOT A COMPANY. Tom only works in a company. He should have used the following:
'I work at the only major cable company that has not as yet provided the RIAA a single datum of information,'
"I wish people could go back to making their own cleaning and hygiene products, growing their own food, making their own music"
Yeah, superman. With the super-speed, you are able to get this done if you spend 25 hours a day on it?
"If we can just stop buying consumer products
No, if someone has a worthwhile product, I'll continue to buy it/