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Longhorn in 2006
worm eater writes "Microsoft Watch reports that Microsoft officials are now aiming for a 2006 release date for Longhorn, the follow up to Windows XP. Microsoft has been hyping aspects of this OS to its partners since 2001. I'm beginning to wonder if the industry will be in a far different place than Microsoft envisions 3 years down the line."
So, at this rate, the OS after Longhorn won't be here until 2011. And Apple has had a significant version of Mac OS every year. We can/should expect the version after Panther by early 2005. This is just more proof that Microsoft is in fact dying.
Which is it? :-)
Ruth
Ruth Ivimey-Cook
Software Engineer and Author
The way things are going, the next version of Microsoft's OS will have many more security holes and even more "Palladium" evilness and DRM restrictions on what I can co with my own content on my own machine. Hold of on this as long as possible, Bill. Get the current one working first.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
I'm beginning to wonder if the industry will be in a far different place than Microsoft envisions 3 years down the line
I'm sure it would if Microsoft wasn't around. But they will bend the future to their will using the power of 40 gigadollars
MS really should follow Apple's model of releasing
an OS update every year or so. 2006 is 5 years *AFTER* XP, with no real inovation till 2006, will people even care by then?
They've done this with nearly every version of Windows. Seems like they always operate on a slightly defensive posture, trying to secure 'partners' in advance. I guess if the strategy works...
So is this a good or a bad thing?
Microsoft officials are now aiming for a 2006 release date for Longhorn.
:)
Yea, I'm now aiming for a 2004 employment date for Linux. Oh, wait I was anyway.
(\_/)
(O.o) This is Bunny. (> <)
"I'm beginning to wonder if the industry will be in a far different place than Microsoft envisions 3 years down the line."
:)
Wherever Microsoft decides the industry should be 3 years from now is where it will be...
Get with the program!
Microsoft is losing market share and Linux is gaining. If Microsoft changes its stragety of forcing upgrades on users, how (aside from OEM) will it sell new copies of its OS?
-j2g
...who thinks Microsoft could have this OS ready sooner, but are waiting for user-hostile hardware (aka DRM) to take off?
I'm beginning to wonder if the industry will be in a far different place than Microsoft envisions 3 years down the line.
Hopefully we won't all have brain-implanted TCPA wires.
Hahahahhahahhahahahahahhahahaha
...it's Foghorn Leghorn, boy!
I wonder who gets to dress up in the chicken suit for the launch party. Steve Ballmer perhaps? He's got all the right dance moves for the part...
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
i think the important thing is that, in 3 years, other OSes will have made huge strides to at least "catch up" in some areas they are lacking right now.
hopefully, this will level the playing field a bit, and give more marketshare to Macs and other *NIX based OSes.
*** For a better tommorow, change your life today ***
the eolas debacle will be a good opprotunity for MS to force everyone to upgrade their browsers, and with that, their OS ...
Personally, I think this is welcome news. First of all, this puts the potential wide scale deployment of palladium another year down the road. Secondly, a year is long enough down the road for another generation of open source alternatives to eat more market share from Microsoft perhaps bringing a semblance of legitimate competition to the market. For you guys who are holding onto Win NT boxes who are waiting on Longhorn this probably isnt the most welcome news though.
with linux on the backend.
I'll take my karma now.
I have ultra secret information from microsoft headquaters. Windows Codename Longhorn will be called by then windows 2006?. And the next windows will be windows 2008 just wait and see.
I'm no expert here, but doesn't this qualify as vaporware? I mean, seriously... if it has been pushed by Microsoft as early as 2001, I think that there's something more going on...
;)
Either A) They're losing programmers to other companies (not unreasonable) B) They're improving the quality of the code (yeah right, would be nice though) or C) They're continuously re-coding from scratch.
I personally think that it is B, but hey, who knows.
Oh, and...
1) Hype product for half a decade
2) ???
3) Don't profit because you took too long - c'mon Microsoft, you ARE trying to make money, right?
Microsoft Windows 2007?
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
"Where do you want to go today..oops, in 2006?"
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Why should Microsoft be capable of implementing secure DRM when normal security has thus far eluded them?
The screenshots of the latest build of Longhorn can be found here.
Enjoy!
Every Super Villan uses Linux.
Microsoft has said they won't be updating IE in standalone form, that future versions will only ship with with new versions of Windows. No new IE until 2006 is enough time that Mozilla and Opera could wrestle away a huge chunk of the browser market.
With the perpetual delays, they might as well take a page from the "Duke Nuke'em Guide To Naming Future Products".
I'm beginning to wonder if the industry will be in a far different place than Microsoft envisions 3 years down the line.
No, I doubt that... Longhorn will be what Windows 95 was. 95 crushed OS/2 Warp, and Longhorn will crush whatever other OS crawls into its space while MS is developing it. Besides, with all the 'amazing new technology and breathtaking new UI' B.S., the media will have a field day with it for at least 3 months before launch... Mass hysteria will ensue, people will line up outside stores to get the first copy as it becomes available at midnight, Microsoft lines their pockets with a few more billions, and 2 weeks down the road, some major flaw in the OS will be exploited, bringing business and the internet to their knees... then the media will resume the Microsoft bashing, and Joe Q. Public will want to re-install whatever OS he had before, only to find out that the company has folded, and now he's stuck with this peice of shit... oh, but wait, now Microsoft is promising a new version that will have no flaws!
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
How much bandwith did you waste in the last few years on downloading service paks and patches? What would have happened if you ignored the service paks?
I for one, will wait or switch, before I support another Windows version with as many holes in it as a slice of swiss cheeze.
Newt-dog
My Doctor prescribed daily nasal saline irrigation, hehe
A 2006 release date will give Microsoft a chance to rip off the visual style of Apple's successor to Panther, whatever that might be
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
This probably won't help the MSIE stagnation problem at all.
I believe they are truly trying to put the focus first on improved security in their products rather than on innovation.
There has been so much bad press in recently about how people are upset about Microsoft's lack of security etc, and I think if they just hyped and rolled out another version of their OS like they usually do, people wouldn't take there security stance very seriously.
I doubt many will take their new security stance seriously no matter what they do.
"Upgrade to IE7 today. Now with 90% more popups!"
Of course the pirates and crackers will quickly bust and run rings around whatever Microsoft does in the DRM field. It will still, however, make the machines with the OS harder to use.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
i dunno... after fixing the memory leak and turning off 80 services, longhorn seems to work pretty well ;)
(posted using longhorn)
Everything old is new again. Remember a few years back, when OS/2 was still considered a semi-legitimate contender, Apple's market share was greater than a single digit, and most IT hands were pretty unconvinced that migrating from Netware to NT was worth the time, money or aggravation? Against what should have been an overwhelming competitive landscape, and armed only with what was in retrospect a dismal product (NT4), MS managed to convince IT managers everywhere that they were the Future of Computing as We Know It. Why? Well, there was this thing called "Cairo", and it was gonna ship Real Soon Now, and it was going to be an all-object-oriented thingamabob that would shine your shoes and make your teeth whiter. The industry bought it, hook line and sinker, and after NT4 had trounced OS/2 and Netware soundly, Cairo evaporated into the same neverland that Apple's Copland project did.
Flash forward to now: Apple is regaining a bit of strength on the desktop, Linux is seriously eating into their server revenue, and while Windows Server 2003 is itself a solid (if unexciting) product, the greater gestalt of the Windows Infrastructure is looking more and more like a bug-ridden, unmaintainable mess. But wait, we've got this really cool technology just around the corner, it's called Longhorn and it'll get your whites whiter, you're gonna love it!
The more things change...
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
I'm beginning to wonder if the industry will be in a far different place than Microsoft envisions 3 years down the line.
Ya like, Linux, OpenBSD, and MacOS X will be what _EVERYONE_ uses, and nobody will be on windows anymore. Then, windows will become a hobbyist OS, and people will start to migrate back to windows just so they can be different.
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
I am in college and have two computers, I have a Powerbook and a PC workstation. (Yes it is a workstation Dual Xeon with ecc ram). I have never used the PC to browse the web. But I have to plug it into the network for my computer science classes. So far I have had about 4 virus infections. I have all of the current updates but Microsoft seems to be about 100 steps behind the virus writers. Do you really think people will put up with this for 3 more years? I'm sure they have grand plans of longhorn but can the really deliver a good product?
What happened to my robot, I was promised a robot.
...for Half Life 2. :)
The / in
For all the delays, I hope MS bundles a copy of Duke Nukem Forever with Longhorn... if DNF is out first that is.
Trolling is a art,
I'm debating what exactly the ups and downs of the next release will be. If my office uses Longhorn, there will be hell with DRM. And I'd hate to lose control of my own machine.
On the other hand, I will only have to wait a week to find a root expoit and regain access to my own computer.
Sort of strange isn't it? Everyone can gain access to your computer (1200 inevitable bugs)... except you (DRM).
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
Sadly, I seriously doubt that the OS marketplace will differ much in 2006. The Microsoft gorilla is still giving the majority of users what they want, at a lower cost and with fewer "hassles" than the competition. Given a choice, most people will use whatever looks the most like what they used to use. People like my parents don't give a fig what OS they're running as long as they can get easy support when they need it. Like many similar users, they don't like change being forced upon them, even if it means new features or better security. Appealing to the lowest common denominator is the only way I see to give M$ some actual competition. Go Lindows!
The look of longhorn, with the quick launch stuck to the side, only adds substantial usability on a widescreen. I'm using a widescreen LCD right now and I that it is optimized for such a layout(I dock my messaging program on the right side). Perhaps Microsoft is waiting for the advent of widesreen formats in the desktop market. Will Microsoft pressure the display industry to release widescreens?
I don't keep a lid on my coffee so when I walk around I look busy -me
Software Assurance... Microsoft's revenue-enhancer of a year and a half ago. You pay a fee, and SA gives you the right to use the latest and greatest Microsoft products (office and OS, basically) for three years.
Turns out there won't be a new version of Windows for three years. Nice trick!
I guess if you are dying to upgrade to Office.NET as soon as it comes out (read: you are an idiot) then SA for Microsoft Office wasn't such a rip-off. We looked at where our business was going, and the fact that MS has committed to support Windows 2000 through 2005 (or 2006, can't remember) and saw no reason whatsoever to purchase Software Assurance.
with pc's as fast as they are anymore, they need to put some major work into longhorn to ensure enough bloat so that everyone will need a new machine. i mean, do you think they'd be crazy like apple and optimize their code or something? c'mon now...
It's a sure shot that apps will require 10.3 just as they required 10.2. OS X upgrades are non-optional if you want to keep your applications up to date.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
If Longhorn is going to be as big of a "leap" as 95 was, I hope they take the time to work with hardware developers as the os is being developed so drivers can be out as fast as possible. I had to wait almost 6months to get all my hardware supported by XP when it first came out, and I bought it the same year as the release.
Oh yeah, more security blah blah blah.
And oh please, please turn off that useless firewall by default. Causes nothing but problems.
[Just Shut Up and Do What I say]
To RTFA. I got to paragraph 70, and started drifting. This whold thing is a whole bunch of hogwash, if you ask me. Microsoft wants to focus on sidling up to the customers, finding ways in which their product can fill holes. That's all fine, I suppose, if were any company but Microsoft.
Knowing them, they'll sidle up to you, ask about your future plans, and when you say that MS innovation has stagnated, and that you want to do a switch to MAC or Linux... they'll declare sales-war on your ass. A new desktop in 2006! My goodness. In three years, the Linux kernel has gone from late 2.2's and early 2.4's to late 2.4's and early 2.6's. Linux has gone through more than just two major revisions (say pre-emptive kernel, VM, etc).
They don't quite understand that sitting on a product will never net sales. They also don't realize that the Open Source community has been a major contibutor to real innovation, in a big way.
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
When gay guys get together do they demean people by saying they are lead around by the coochie?
It seems that Microsoft had lost it's momentum. Next edition in 3 years, when Samba is faster than Windows Server 2003, Mozilla is better than Internet Explorer 6, and GNU/Linux is rapidly conquesting desktops may mean only one thing: when Longhorn will finally be released, world will be dominated by Open Source Software.
Constant evolution in hardware due to Moore's Law, kicks forward software evolution and Microsoft apparently don't care.
Given the current speed of adding features to GNU/Linux and FreeBSD I have no doubts that Longhorn will be long behind competion when it'll be released in 2006.
When in doubt, go to the library. - Ron Weasley in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
65-13 How embarrassing!
I think the funniest part of all this is how MS sales reps used the new Licensing programs to browbeat people into signing up to "subscribe" to Microsoft software - where you'd pay them a yearly subscription fee and get whatever OS they released, if they released one. If you didn't, well, you'd still pay, and you'd maybe get one next year.
Not surprising that as soon as a ton of people are on this licensing scam^H^Hscheme, they can now make everyone wait 3 years for anything new.
# Erik
To copy nearly everything Apple will do until 2005.
...
Balmer says, "How do we help move UNIX applications down to Windows easier..." Hrm, hey Steve, how can you help me convert my Cadillac into a Pinto easier?
You never saw a fish on the wall with its mouth shut.
On a side note, i've been toying around with the new .NET stuff and it seems that their hope is to make the system more secure by basically having all the programs emulated by the framework, therefore nothing actually changes the OS, you guys think that's a good way to do things?
"If they were not a monopoly I, frankly, would not care, and would let the market decide"
Check linux.slashdot.org, apple.slashdot.org, bsd.slashdot.org
If Microsoft were a monopoly, these divisions of Slashdot would not even exist.
This delay gives the Amiga people time to make their comeback!
I thought microsoft was working on being an XP shop (where XP==eXtreme Programming) Can anyone confirm/deny that? I guess microsoft is hoping they know what the market will want in 2006, and that it wont be changing much in the next 3 years. Not that I ever plan on using windows again, or ever need to. I'm going to be a cowboy.
TallGreen CMS hosting
Apple has, in the last 3 years, released 4 versions of OS X. Each version gets much more feature rich, faster, and far more impressive. In the time before Longhorn comes out we're going to see some pretty incredible things from Apple coming out into the public for real.
WinSuperSite and the other(?) win advocacy sites may get a hard-on for the next 3 years for the "Luna" interface or whatever it's called. They may drop their jaws at the useless sidebar that'll decrease screen real estate even more. They may also tell you that WinFS is going to blow away anything out there for file systems.
And all at the same time that they're talking about what's coming the rest of us will either have a damn good OS with Apple that's constantly being improved and updated or we're going to be stuck with WinXP and the weekly security blitzkrieg that happens to every Windows-centric IT department in the world.
Choose where you want to be.
Independent of the technical nature of the changes, if you want to seriously hype an OS maybe every-few-years is the way to go. It's hard to gear yourself up for a massive [sales jargon]paradigm shift[/jargon] every 12 months. The Mac OS that went out in 1984 basically underwent evolutionary change until OS 7, which brought true multitasking. Even OS 7 wasn't that jarring a change. Then it bounced happily along until OS X, really, if you don't count the hardware changes involved in the PowerPC chips and then the G3s.
Not that I'm exactly enthused about Longhorn, or anything -- OS X will do fine for now. But the delay isn't necessarily going to hurt the marketing, here. People need a little rest between blockbusters -- when it's one must-see movie after another they get bored with it.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Does MS really think people are going to be willing to run 5 year old technology on their work systems, when a cheaper and more current alternative is readily available?
I just hope Sun will be able to push madhatter well enough for companies to let go of their grip of Microsoft products and open the future of corporate desktops to any player with a plan; be it Sun or whoever. It's just that currently, Sun is the other company that can do it. Who knows what the corporate desktop will look like in two years.
(associated press AP reporting) In a stunning development, the justice department has enacted legislation which effectively places the computer industry on a "feature freeze". Feature freeze is a computer industry term which is usually applied to software when it is near mature enough to release. The feature freeze act of 2004 is empowered by the DOJs expanded Antiterrorist powers and was sponsored by Microsoft Computer Corporation. Microsoft spokeswoman, Ima Lamer, had this to say about it
"The computer industry presents to much of a moving target to make effective and secure OS software. The companies (and open source projects) responsible for this rapidly changing landscape basically create an atmospere ripe for e-terrorists"
Pres. Bush had this to say
"Who is open source, can we bomb their villages"
Under this new legislation, any company or group of developers responsible for implementing any new technology prior to Microsofts 2006 launch of longhorn will be sent to Guantanemo.
i think that longhorn is/will be much bigger in terms of lines of code. if you look at 2000/xp from the right angle, 2000 was released without all the stuff that ms wanted because they were out of time. xp looks like the rest of the features that they wanted to put into 2000. they can't afford to release part of longhorn in 200x and have longhorn+ 18 months later.
ms is also very busy with other projects, mainly bug fixes. i think they were not planning to spend so much time on these, but that's the way the coookie crumbles.
eric
Duh...
Microsoft's next big upgrade is going to be timed so that it comes out as soon after the 3-year DOJ wrist slap expires as they can possibly throw together a criitical mass of new lock-in mechanisms.
It'll then take another 3 years (and a new Administration) to bring the next antitrust suit, and another 3 years to win it.
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
Longhorn!
With DRM and Hilary Rosen, Jack Valenti, and the Boston strangler in every box!
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
Well let's see. We're getting Microsoft powered BIOS ROMs, so we know all of the BIOS related muck will run just great under Longhorn/Palladium. DRM chips are being produced for motherboard manufacturers by Microsoft, so there's definitely going to be some "beautiful" DRM integration. The TCPA will probably have taken affect and imprisoned us to our own machines power and will; courtesy of Billy G.
My god the future sure looks grim, perhaps it's time to throw away this computer and stick with my Linux-powered PDA!
These are prototype shots. Of course, I don't expect Slashbots to realize that, and I already see people making judgement posts like this is what Longhorn will look like, but still, allow me to interject a little bit of logic and sanity.
Microsoft has yet to reveal their "photorealistic" interface codenamed Aero that is supposed to revamp the entire Windows interface. They're considering keeping it secret until release so that nobody steals their ideas. KDE, look out.
"Sufferin' succotash."
This is kind of on-topic, and I think quite poetic.
A nice background pic portraying Tux driving the longhorns off a cliff can be found here
Get to the background directly from here
When you're doing projections for investors, 2006 dollars are better than 2001 dollars. Imagine the giddiness in the board room....
There was no grand statement of our partner strategy; Bill just made it clear there were some things he didn't want the company to do because we wouldn't be any good at them anyway.
I wonder if Ballmer clears any of this with legal before he says it.
What he clearly meant to say is, 'You innovate; we'll steal it, bury it, blow it up, or buy it, in that order.'
Welcome to our world!
be George Costanza screaming "Security Now!!!! SECURITY NOW!!!!"?
Yeah, it will, and Linux, BSD, and OSX will be far different. You have to wonder what very impressive features Linux may have by then...
Since the mid 90s I used to give tech stock advice to my "rich uncle"... my report on MS was usually "it's really good for at least 2 more years".
A few years ago I finally got to say, "I can't see it going anywhere in the next two years, and
more importantly, I'm doubtful they can maintain dominance beyond two years."
Now the writing is all over the walls, and the newspapers, and the trade journals, etc. Cheer
.sigs are for post^Hers.
well --
... so it seems like 2006 is right on the money for the next OS.
don't forget that it was 6 years between NT (1994) and 2K
prof. hojo
I think the reasons why Microsoft is aiming Windows Longhorn for 2006 release are:
1. Windows will get a new file system (WinFS). This is something that is completely different than NTFS 5 used in Windows 2000/XP and will take time to debug.
2. Windows will likely get a completely new interface from the ground up. Even the current Luna interface used in Windows XP is essentially a derivative of the interface pioneered by Windows 95. That means the Taskbar with its Start button will be replaced by something completely new.
3. Windows will be written so it fully takes advantage of the latest desktop CPU technology. This means CPU's based on Intel's Prescott CPU core, the AMD Hammer (Athlon64/Opteron) core, and most likely a future version of CPU's based on the Intel Itanium core.
4. Windows will now include native support for IPv6 addressing.
I guess someone has three years to come up with a solution to make Linux the defacto gaming platform.
The bootable America's Army 64 Bit CD is a step in the right direction, but rebooting to play games is something people don't want to do.
There are many people I know who would ditch Windows all together if they could play their favorite games in Linux nativley. Right now some of my friends will not give up on Battlefiled 1942, Raven Shield and host Recon among other games. They can appreciate America's Army, but that's only one high profile Linux game.
Comments? Suggestions?
--
Windows seems to have used a 2 year/$200 sort of cycle, so I don't see how 1 year/$100 is much different. You still have a choice to not upgrade.
No, I doubt that... Longhorn will be what Windows 95 was. 95 crushed OS/2 Warp, and Longhorn will crush whatever other OS crawls into its space while MS is developing it.
Just like Windows XP crushed Linux...
Cheers buddy.
Are they rewriting the OS so that its actually secure this time or are they waiting until people readily accept DRM as part of the operating system :)
Given recent college football history, the OS X version shipping at that time ought to be called "Sooner"
Open Office has a Format Painter. The feature is called "Fill Format".
Doesn't anyone read documentation anymore?
Laura is such a bastar-==[.\
Your copy of LongHorn will come with a free copy of Duke Nukem Forever...
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
So their waiting until XP is nearly gone and everything else already is. XP Home stops having support on Dec 31, 2006. They stop selling either home or pro on Dec 31, 2005. Isn't that nice, they'll leave lots of options for you to buy! Longhorn, or..... Longhorn... Probably a choice of home or pro. Wow. What fun that'll be!
This space for rent, inquire within.
So windows is in suspended animation till 2006.
That now gives everyone 3 years to get a plan together to get off the windows licensing and upgrade treadmill and onto linux, before MS moves the bar/formats again.
This means there is no better time than now to switch to Linux..
Get with the program
When a program is broken: refactor or rewrite.
First, of course this means that Longhorn will arrive NOT BEFORE 2006 - nothing else.
I find that good for several reasons:
1) For us poor developers who have to work with the MS platform, I find it a relief that no new version of Windows is expected soon. That gives me more time to focus on getting actual work done. (In fact, this is not true because of new versions of other MS products, but it is a good start nevertheless.
2) Of course WinXP will feel really old in 2006, and hopefully Mac OS X, Linux, or whatever options there are will feel more and more ahead of WinXP, at least for a while.
3) 2006 sounds like a risky enterprice, one can at least hope for even more delay.
As the article states: " That means there will be no Visual Studio tools release for two years after "Whidbey" (which Microsoft is still insisting will be a late 2004 product). No Office 12 until 2006. And Longhorn Server -- which was expected, until this week, in 2006 -- is now, more likely than not a 2007 product (given that it was set to lag the client release by a year)."
Since Office is currently the cash MS cow, and since it looks like years before it jumps again, perhaps MS isn't really planning on anything more than milking that cow. Perhaps MS sees too much competition for the Office suite coming over the hill to warrant putting up another fight.
MS may simply be leaving a small force behind, so that it appears business is normal. Mean time, the fort is abandoned, and MS puts Office on the shelf.
Imagine the risk to Sales when they can't push a new version under the customer nose. Imagine the beating Office will take as it continues to stagnate and options continue to proliferate.
Perhaps MS is leaving the software industry for a warmer climate...
If there was an ultra-slick jaw-dropping eye-candy feature, you can bet it wouldn't be a whole 6 months before there was a KDE that could do it.
:P
Maybe you're right, maybe MS is keeping it very secret on purpose. If so, they're wise, since at this rate the feature could get done in KDE and released still long before Longhorn itself is released
.sigs are for post^Hers.
Okay, we could all wait and see what MS will come out with in 2006 with Longhorn... and I hope that they come out with something that doesn't look and feel like every other feature bloated OS they've crammed down the Wintel world's throat in the past 20 years. I'm not holding my breath.
:-)
In the meantime, you can enjoy Panther, OS X 10.3 later this month. Given Apple's once-a-year OS release schedule thus far, you can expect 2 more OS revisions BEFORE Longhorn is out. OS X 10.4 and 10.5, and _probably_ OS X 10.6 will be done by then.
I have to believe that shorter, more controlled releases are better than huge pent-up demand that may fall short. Granted, this is by no means a switcher's guarantee YET, but 3 major shots at Wintel in the meantime can mean major inroads for Apple.
Just think of Apple's potential and it's staggering. Granted, nothing is guaranteed, but when you have single digit percentage sales you have a lot of growth potential. At 5 to 8%, depending on the market, even 10% to 16% is DOUBLE sales. I like Apple's future, and my mid-teen stock shares are looking mighty good right now.
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
Wait, didn't XP come out in late 2001? That means MS is projecting ACTIVE LIFESPAN OF 4-5 YEARS for WinXP with no significant upgrades to the OS? Isn't that just about the same length of time MS promises to support new OSs before sunsetting them?
There are two ways to look at this:
1) GREAT! Windows is basically stable and has all the features MS thinks people need!
2) Uh-oh... MS is running out of ideas worth releasing a new OS over.
Think about this. That's two years with no new APIs. No new UI features. No new OS-integrated components. In other words, no new GPL MS-emulation projects like Samba, Mono and SDL, etc.
With the way "Linux On The Desktop" projects like KDE have been advancing, this is a HUGE opportunity. MS is promising that they are going to let the primary target of the "alternative platform" STAND STILL for the next two years before Longhorn moves the goalposts back again.
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/steve/2003 /10-09wwpc.asp
Number 1 is we want to get better alignment between you and us and our customers and our products in the scenarios that they can fit in, in those customers. If that pipe, if that alignment is clear, it reduces...
I kid you not, that's a direct quote.
I love to hear Microsoft mention Linux, especially in a paragraph that can be taken out of context and re-written (too much SCO of late):
Complete misquote:
What's your strategy to compete with Linux, which I might mention is not competition; I'm just talking about Linux specifically as an example, not as a more stable, robust threat.
"The truth (laughter) is our products compete with other products, and our products compete with other products in a variety of ways, starting with the crushing hammer of a monopoly and value delivered in the product running right through to the services and training of our partners and the applications that our partners built.
But we've got to start by having products that deliver the best value in every scenario that our customers care about, and especially those areas they had no idea they SHOULD care about. And so when we think about innovation, we think about innovation in a value sense for our customers and a competitive sense. Or, to put it another way, we want to charge more for less.
Linux is better at high-performance computing than Windows, so we hired some Linux engineers and they look at it and they look at it and they look at it and they say, "Why are we looking at this, we wrote it? Linux? How do we make that easier?" When I think of Linux, I think of my mother. (Laughter.) That was a little extra emotion, but it was not Freudian.
Sort of strange isn't it? Everyone can gain access to your computer (1200 inevitable bugs)... except you (DRM).
:)
But just think about it: hackers (sic) would no longer be able to use your data to effect their nefarious ends. With DRM in place, they wouldn't be able to use the data either, even if they were able to steal it! All they could do is delete / corrupt it........ credit card information is now safe with Microsoft Windows DRM!
See, MS security is getting better -- users can make data as useless to hackers as hackers can make it useless to users.
I had my copy of OS/2 2.0 the day it was released. The same crap kept on coming up. No applications.
Warp was dead before Win95 was even released. It was a comedy of errors, but the primary one is the one that Ballmer was teaching you in his monkey boy video. "Developers, developers, developers...". If you can control the development target for application developers, then you can control the OS market.
IBM was openly hostile to the hobbyist developer as well as the small shop. Getting a SDK was a nightmare. Getting compilers was even rougher. Ironically most of the stuff available was Microsoft software - for 16-bit OS/2. (MS BASIC, C, MASM all supported 16 bit OS/2 targets)
Providing some visual support for developing under Linux (ala Kylix) should be a priority, but using the GNU toolchain. It should be easy, fast, and reliable and not depend on controversial software. It should produce legible code naturally and require a dedicated person to screw it up.
Kdevelop + the QT tools are attempting to go in this direction but they haven't gone far enough. Kylix is too proprietary to be of much use (and too dependent on particular distributions)
Learn from history, or be destined to repeat it.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
...they're giving Apple 2 more years to further refine OSX and its features before they 'adapt' the features into Longhorn and package it as 'innovative'.
Don't pretend like we haven't seen this time and time again.
I thought XP stands for "Experience". Okay, a LSD-trip experience, but still an experience ;-)
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
So, 3 years ago (october 2000), we had:
- Mozilla M18
- KDE 1.1.2
- GNOME 1.2
- Openoffice was barely released and was pretty much just staroffice 5.2.
I wonder what a Linux desktop will look like by 2006?
Boy, that Ballmer's a wordy fella.
Coincidentally, 2006 is also when Disney's copyright on Mickey Mouse is due to expire.
Does this mean it only runs well on a Pentium Extreme Edition?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Everyone is missing a key point of interest here. All those idiots who signed up for Software ASSurance in August last year when M$ was shoving it down their throats are getting screwed. At least if they signed an SA agreement for their OS updates, which lasts 3 years, they are. If Longhose doesn't come out until 2006, these people will essentially have paid for air, because the next OS update would be outside of that 3 year agreement.
Apparently when you sign that agreement, the only thing that you're assured of is that you will pay M$ more money. Seriously, though - who didn't see that coming?
They're just going to release it internally and go through two upgrades, and then publicly release the third version. What they should have been doing all along.
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
No doubt Longhorn will target being able to leverage DRM hardware, but should DRM hardware become widely available before 2006, then you can bet there will be an XP service pack that will provide support for it. Also, DRM hadware won't take off big-time unless there is software that can take advantage of it, so I doubt MS will wait for Longhorn to implement it - another reason to do a DRM-enabled XP service pack.
Add to this the current uncertainty of how fast 64-bit computing will be taken up leaving the question of will Longhorn be 32-bit, 64-bit, or both, and I can see Microsoft wanting to wait a bit and see how things shake out before supporting the wrong horse.
After all, Microsoft hardly wants to bet wrong with so much at stake. I'm sure they remember taking the wrong branch with MSN and the Internet, and the pain of correcting that decision.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
No, they talk about cocks and ass. For example:
longhorns shoved up his ass
XP is a great product.. People will be content running it for the next 3 years. In fact, lots of people are still content running Windows 2000. Both are very good operating systems -- your average consumer who just wants to do e-mail, browse the web and download music can do it all happily on XP.
In 3 years:
-Linux will suffer from the same problems holding it back now. How much improvement has Linux really made in the last 3 years? I still don't see people using it on their desktops and the numbers back that up.
-Mac hardware will still be expensive and under-powered. Again, look at the last 3 years.. What has changed? Apple has released a good OS and a decent CPU yet their market share continues to shrink.
-3 years isn't enough time for an unknown OS to spring up and steal market share from MS. It will take 3 years just to get a semi-decent 1.0 product with mediocre driver support out the door.
The only real threat to Microsoft is an x86 port of OSX but it looks like Apple is still unwilling to give up their little hardware monopoly.
it seems to me like microsoft has too many individuals working on its projects. a small team would not have these types of problems with their products. Are the team members talking to each other? how do 500 people create a program/OS?
Just noticed this poking around the longhorn screenshots. The little critical-update-ready-to-install icon is already on the desktop: http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/lh4029 _2_028.jpg
Does anybody know if Vegas offers odds on the actual release date of Longhorn? They seem to cover most any bet, why not this one? Options might include 2006 with 1 date push, 2 date pushes, 2007 with 1 date push, etc.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I was getting sick of paying 200 dollars every 18 months for a service pack.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
OMG, the R|A@ hAX0r3d my b0x. Where are my mp3s?
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
...anti-alias untill everything is a gigantic smear
2006 is 9 quarters away. and XP has been here 2 years already? I just cant see MS going that long without an OS refresh. XP will look really really long in the tooth by 2006.
"The courts have declared Microsoft a Monopoly. You don't have to like it for that to be a fact"
Yes, it is a fact that the courts lied.
The same kind of courts that declared blacks to be 4/5 of a person and Bush to be president.
"Your opinion on this issue is also irrelevant. Just because you can't/won't face reality doesn't stop the rest of the world from facing it."
I can read a dictionary even if a few boobs in robes can't.
Many thanks for linking the word Microsoft to microsoft.com in that article. I found it really useful to find out more about that unheard of company that call themselves Microsoft.
Once again, many thanks.
[when gay guys get together, they talk about....] ...No, they talk about cocks and ass.
I can assure you that this is simply not true. Not anymore true than saying when straight people get together, all they talk about is Natalie Portman, Beowulf clusters, and Soviet Russia, 2. ???, and 3. Profit!
The truth about Longhorn is simply this. It is named LongHorn because Microsoft intends to screw the customer more than usual with this release. And probably in more new and novel ways, such as DRM. The screwing begins with those who have already paid their software ASSurance for all upgrades over three years.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Don't buy our competition, we will have something better in 2-3 years, we promise! Here is a bunch of FUD we spread to make you think we are cool and they are not.
Marketing == Mind Control. I just find it humerous we complain to no end about microsoft's strategies when the blessed Sony Corporation as well as many others use the same tactics.
Longhorn actually has the potential to be great. Windows XP was a huge leap in products for a strategy and marketing perspective. (although still half assed for the business needs)
The only gripe i have, is the functionality in Media Center Edition should be an add-on or functionality in the base piece of XP instead of fragmenting out the purpose of a pc into the vertical markets microsoft is trying to keep around. (But even redhat is splitting home/workstation/enterprise editions)
Just one of the many reasons i prefer solaris. Same OS on an Ultra 5 that you run on an E10k. NO BS about features, no BS about promises and an OS that is tried and true.
I would love to use mac osx, but i'm not big on the quarterly/yearly 130.00 upgrades. Sorry apple.
more FUD..
i hate microsoft.
Wow, remember the cost estimates MS was pushing to justify how much cheaper it was to by into their software assurance plan? Pay every 1,2 or 3 years instead of once and get "free" and immediate upgrades? Considering it will be at least 5 years between XP and Longhorn, I would say everyone who used those initial numbers of a 3 years cycle for a total cost calculation got burned pretty badly.
Here is an a piece from another page:
Software Assurance is an annuity-based licensing offering, under which subscribers pay Microsoft 29 percent of the total cost of the software per year over the life of the contract, though Wilcox noted the fee schedule can be a bit more complicated when factoring in the license plan itself (Open Value, Open or Select), or when accounting for CALs.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Please write an entirely new OS!!!
We don't need compatibility any longer. We're used to upgrading everything every 30 days anyway. We can dual boot the way Apple users continue to do between OSX and MacOS9.
Write the OS so that only the OS runs at ring 0. Write the OS so that it fixes the problems associated with the message queue. Write the OS so that user level restrictions are STRICTLY enforced so that even if there is a bug found, the damage it can cause is severely limited. (Meaning that an SQL bug doesn't result in email viruses being distributed across the internet.)
Please forget about tremendous levels of programability!! We don't need a word processor that knows how to format my hard drive or copy files into my system directory!! We just want it to process words. So far, the only people who really know how to use these "features" are the freaking virus authors!!!
It's not like you have to do a lot of thinking about it. Apple saw the light and went with an advanced yet tested kernel. It has ALL of the appropriate features built-in with a license compatible with their purposes. Write your own *NIX core if you want to.
Want to shut down Linux users? Write your next OS on a BSD kernel, make the old Windows apps work the way people want them to (it can be done... it's BEING done) and sell it to people. They will buy it because there are people out there who still trust you for some reason. Once you out out something with a *NIX kernel, you will see an amazing amount of curiosity and popularity.
And did I mention that trivial bugs needn't be fatal flaws if the kernel enforces proper user level security? If I hadn't, then I will say it now. Trivial bugs needn't be fatal flaws if the kernel enforces proper user level security!!!!
Say you've spent a little time formatting a paragraph the wat you want with the various idents, tabs, font, size, etc... now you want to apply the same formatting to a paragraph later in the document. Using the format painter, you can copy the formatting from one location and use it in another location. I use it constantly - and yes - I use Word.
new microsoft longhorn = no more clothing frowns
Ladies and Gentlemen I give you Copeland, Microsoft's newest Operating System that will make our previous outtings appear uncouth. It's Insanely Great! What? Longhorn? You're kidding right? Listen the script doesn't say that. You didn't have time to update the script? How could you not have time to update the script, this OS has been in development forever! What? Cut My Mic!
What if it is just turtles all the way down?
Windows XP == Windows Chi Ro (greek character) == Windows Cairo.
Cairo was supposed to be the first distribution that combined the NT and 95 code bases. It was supposed to contain all the object features you were talking about and it was supposed to be delivered RSN soon after NT4 came out.
Of course, like most things related to Microsoft, Cairo took 5 years longer to deliver and didn't include half the features it was supposed to.
I don't see Longhorn being any different.
GO AMIGA!
Sig.i>
If you anti-alias something again, you anti-anti-alias it, so does that mean you simply alias it?
Something Ballmer said about halfway through his speech baffles me: "I think most people in this room probably understand that we've had very few attacks, very few exploits that actually preceded the patch."
Is he smoking a cheaper brand of crack now? Aren't Windows exploits a history of attacks followed by patches? Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, sometimes not until a 3rd party has publicized the vulnerability (at the risk of getting DMCAstrated)?
But then I would return the questions back to the CEO: Once you master the markets, why are you abandoning them? Why does IE still have linear browsing, linear back and forward buttons? Why does IE have so many unfixed bugs, and why isn't it fully W3C compliant? Why do all the Office apps change format with every edition, into something that prior editions cannot read? Why do my new Access databases not work with my old databases, and why does it ask to convert them when opened with the newer versions? Why don't any of the Office apps generate good HTML or XHTML or XML code? Why can't you copy certain complex pages from IE and paste them into Word without Word crashing?
The answer: Once you've made the other systems irrelevent, such as the comment about developers saying "How do we port it to that other operating system -- what was it -- Linux?" when Microsoft gets there, they abandon innovation.
And that, Mr. Balmer, is Microsoft's biggest problem.
//TODO: Think of witty sig statement
I've been told Ballmer took a time out from his busy schedule to browse slashdot at +3 threshold just to see your post and start implementing these changes right away.
Thank you for your valuable contribution of Microsoft's premier operating system. Because of your post the system will be more user-friendly and secure in the future.
Regards,
Microsoft Corporation.
Gee, your suggestions may sound like what Windows Longhorn maybe like when it is finally released. It wouldn't be far-fetched that Windows Longhorn runs on top of the BSD kernel, since the so-called Windows File System could actually be an adaptation of what is now available for some UNIX variants.
:-)
Besides, running it on top of the BSD kernel might make it possible to have Windows Longhorn variants that run on the Intel IA-32, Intel IA-64 and AMD X86-64 CPU architectures with almost no code changes at the application level.
How else would they have the time to steal all the features from panther?
You like your new Mac more than you like me, don't you, Dave? Dave? I asked...She said Yes.
Fortunately, Microsoft is fully aware of the years of research into truly secure "trusted" systems (and no, I'm not talking about candy-assed things like OpenBSD).
The only open question is how badly they will fuck up the implementation, back-door it in favor of the RIAA, etc etc.
Should Linus cross one of the big players we could very well see a split in the kernel development similar to StarOffice and OpenOffice. The purists would keep their GPLd GNU/Linux while IBM and others would go and make the fork the next mainstay operating system in the industry.
You've already said some pretty stupid stuff, but this one takes the cake. Obviously you don't understand the GPL.
Whaddaya mean it's coming out in 2006? I've got the disk sitting on my desk right in front of me!
(grin)
No one will need more than 40 giga of dollars for a future of their making?
:)
Maybe I can't have my future totally in my hands, but I could live with %1 of it.
*starts counting pennies in penny jar*
"That's one thing that's really holding you open source guys back"
:P
YeeHaw!! I now am now officially rich!!! You see I patented the phrase "That's one thing that's really holding you open source guys back" back in the mid 90's because I just KNEW I'd get to hear it over and over and over and over again.
A big thanks go out to all of you who made this possible. I'd especially like to thank those of you who used this phrase with regards to "ease of use". Now that I've read it 200,000 times I am set for retirement.
Anyway thanks again.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
It's about lulling the competition to sleep so they can surprise everybody with a 2005 release.
Besides, there's no way MS is going to let three Christmases go by without a new Windows release.
They just want their competition to slow down thinking they only have to out-compete XP for the next 3 years.
What's that icon labelled "3 1/2 in. Floppy" ??? Could it be some sort of new storage media that we'll see in 2006???
Isn't it interesting how you come to recognize posters based solely on their sigs???
What can the BSD kernal do that the NT kernal can't? AFAIK, the NT kernel is actualy POSIX compliant, or close to it. MacOS 9, on the other hand had a long way to go before it caught up with 'modern' operating systems. It was a good idea for Apple to scrap it. The NT kernel is already competitive with unix, there would be no reason for them to switch over.
You can already run Unix on windows, just get cygwin.
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
"Write your next OS on a BSD kernel"
What are you talking about? MS Windows is already running on a BSD (Blue Screen of Death) kernel.
less is more
Microsoft is trying to grab control of the PC hardare platform as a way to prevent total software commoditization by the likes of linux and friends. When Longhorn hits Microsoft will have most of the cpu, bios, motherboard, and other hardware vendors onboard and will be pushing the new standard as hard as it can. For the first time, there will be secure, hardware-based digital restrictions management (DRM) that will allow remote control of much of the data on our computers.
Microsoft and the media companies are practically drooling over the possibilites, so it won't matter that some geeks will figure out obcure ways to crack the DRM, or that nearly every computer user on the planet will hate it. The media monopolies will not support anything else, and Microsoft will drop support for and break backwards compatibility with older versions of its office and OS software, using its monopolies in these areas to force everyone to adopt the new Palladium-enabled standard.
But people won't go along with the new regime if they feel they have a choice, and Microsoft will have a serious problem on its hands if linux improves as much in the next three years as it has in the last three. That in addition to Microsoft's dismal security record, onerous licenses and high costs, pervasive DRM may encourage a mass exodus away from Microsoft.
I honestly can't decide who is going to win. Some days I think people are good and responsible and will come to their senses in time, and then I see again how utterly wrapped up your average person is in the lives of celebrities and other shiny things. It's a tough call.
For the record, I will do everything in my power to not buy Palladium-corrupted hardware and will encourage my non-geek friends to do the same.
And, of course,
I just aliased my ls and now it's only "aia". Weird!
While it is still out too far for my liking, Microsoft just reaffirmed that they will ship the new Longhorn client in 2005. There will be a server release in 2006 but the abstract for this thread is factually incorrect.
Wow, sounds like you want them to write..Linux. Hmm. Why not just use linux???
"Microsoft has yet to reveal their "photorealistic" interface codenamed Aero that is supposed to revamp the entire Windows interface. They're considering keeping it secret until release so that nobody steals their ideas. KDE, look out." ...
so they're gonna rip off apple again?
95 crushed OS/2 Warp
i remember a different history. it wasn't win'95 that crushed os/2, it was because of cost.
win'3.1 came AFTER os/2. when win'95 flew off the shelves, people were already swapping os/2 for win'3.1 because ibm wouldn't offer free customer service. ibm had lost the pc market, and os/2 was a last ditch attempt by ibm to regain what it finally realized it had lost. os/2 was a good product, and os/2 solutions could run on windows till m$ change some stuff and os/2 products wouldn't run on wind-blow systems anymore. there were many other smaller events that occurred, but not one single software product caused os/2 to choke. it was that the market was asking for help, and m$ would give it; i.b.m. wouldn't.
ibm was pretty erogant about it, at that time. just like m$ is today. there's a greek saying that comes to mine; it involves recieving a gift from the 'gods'. the outcome is not a good one...
There are several good reasons for MS to delay Longhorn. (Please remember that I believe MS will enter its death spiral within 2 years.)
The first reason is financial tactics. MS has managed to get companies to pay for 3-year licenses. They have already paid, so why give them anything? MS will release the next OS at the moment just after most of these licenses need to renewed. "Renew now and the next OS is included." generates much more income than "You just received everything we expect to release for the next couple of years. Would you like to renew?"
The second reason is publicity. Talking about Longhorn puts MS in the news, which always helps the stock price. As long as it is vaporware, they can do a press release anytime there is not a new virus threat in the news. Releasing the software slows the PR.
The third reason is their business operations. They are reducing the number of programmers in the U.S. and hiring programmers in India to do the work. The Indian programmers probably keep saying things like: "This code you sent us does not make sense. There is no way it could ever run, and if it did, it would cause memory leaks and crash anyway." Moving code production overseas always incurs some delays, but it will take a long time for anybody outside Redmond's groupthink to understand this code.
The final reason is that Bill knows his company is declining. Why spend the money to develop software when your company will not exist to release it?
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
Please write an entirely new OS!!!
They do, or at least that is what they keep telling us!!!! They still cant get it right.
You don't really expect there won't be any new Windows NT 5.x versions, do you? I think there will be at least one major revamp of XP before Longhorn ships. But what do I know.
Unfortunately, it's the industy that revolves around MS, not the other way around. So the marketplace will be whatever MS says it will be in 3 years. MS is very good at directing people down a very tightly-controlled channel where they must upgrade to the latest and greatest at some time or another. It's like "The Matrix"... people are part of a system and aren't ready to be unplugged. As time goes on and they get more used to the system, the harder it is for them to get out. So, by 2006 the MS users will be exactly where Microsoft wants them to be, that is, ready to upgrade to Longhorn.
"Oh dear, she's stuck in an infinite loop and he's an idiot" -Prof. Farnsworth (Futurama)
Try these guys, they pull together odds from all the bookmakers: http://bestbetting.com, or for a "person-to-person" betting exchange there is http://www.betfair.com. (They'll both do you odds on just about anything.)
Of course, using these is probably illegal in the US. So feel free to just delete this message and pretend I don't exist.
Disclaimer: I don't get any money from any of these people, am not employed, etc. This is purely for "information" only.
--- My dad's political betting
If XP isn't meeting your needs, take a serious look at OS X. If your hardware is getting old, take a serious look at the G5s and G4s.
I'm not commanding you to buy them, I'm not going to get into that "Mac is so superior that if you're still using Windows you must be retarded" business, I'm just telling you to forget your old biases. Apple is now a full-fledged playah.
Maybe it won't end up being right for you, but Macs (and particularly OS X) deserve your consideration. That's it.
"Want to shut down Linux users? Write your next OS on a BSD kernel"
So far, it sounds like microsoft must be listening to people like you -- because you have no idea what you are talking about, and their os looks like it was designed by like-minded folks.
you know, linux binaries are very easy to run in freebsd for example. There's no "lock out" there.
Someone should just come out with SoonerLinux, which will kick Longhorn's ass every year.
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
Nothing impacts people so little as the software that is never released. So, as long as longhorn is in the vaporware state, we are quite safe and all that hype and silliness about evil DRM, etc is just that - silliness.
Jobs? Which jobs?
A new thought ...
Does anyone remember when Microsoft dropped decimal points in favour of years? They dropped 'Windows 3.1' in favour of 'Windows 95' and dropped 'Windows NT 4.0' in favour of 'Windows 2000.' It's not hard to guess why they did this, and I remember reading several articles on the subject. They moved away from version numbers in favour of year numbers in hopes of making people think that the product was somehow out of date. 'Windows 95' is supposed to sound much more out of date than 'Windows 2000.' (And so on.) And then suddenly, Microsoft dropped years (and the famous 'NT' moniker) to move to 'XP' -- how 'Windows XP' is supposed to sound better than 'Windows 95,' I will never know.
Despite the fact that I was against dropping the 'NT' from Windows, the fact was, the time had come for it. Windows was certainly no longer 'new technology' by the time Windows 2000 came about.
(True, the Server products still retain year numbers, but I wonder for how long? Windows 2000 and now Windows 2003, and apparently Longhorn Server will ultimately be Windows 2007.)
While it's true that Microsoft still uses the version number of Windows, it's an internal number only. If you know where to look in the registry (a truly evil idea in itself), you can find the major and minor version including the build number. But that doesn't mean anything to the average end-user, admit it.
It seems to me that there has been increasing resistance toward upgrading Microsoft products. Could this be a result of the move from decimal points? Maybe Microsoft, in trying to play a psychological game with consumers and purchasers, ended up shooting themselves in their collective foot?
Seth Anderson BTW, I'm not 23 anymore -- I am TexasCowboy26 now. =)
Like most everybody else, I have some serious doubts about the idea that XP can last until 2006 as a viable competitor in the desktop market... Linux is a serious alternative to Windows on the desktop, and frankly, OS X is way ahead if you got the cash.
But the thing that jumps out at me with this news is the idea that there will be no new Internet Explorer until Longhorn's integrated browser. There will be plenty of XP die-hards still using it in 2006, I'm sure. But IE is old, buggy, and is facing vastly superior competition right now. There's no way IE can survive that long unless there's some sinister aspect to this plan I'm just not seeing.
Everything you're talking about can be done with Windows XP, a good firewall, and a properly configured NTFS system. Maybe (gasp!) the problem isn't MS, but the end user? (disclaimer: i hate MS like I hate my crack dealer, and yet I need them both)
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
Everything except ONE.
Every time there is a hole in Microsoft code, it represents a potential for the entire machine to be OWNED. That is because running any code could represent a breech at the OS level due to the fatal flaw of the message queue. In case you were unaware of this design flaw, there is no verification of the message sender's credentials and can therefore start off a process at the level of "Administrator." Once this occurs, anything in the machine can be messed with... ANYTHING.
Linux for the desktop could be KING in 3 years time. MS is already on the ropes, server-wise. Now is the time to kick some desktop monopoly ass!
I don't want to scare you, but I think you're ready to switch to Mac OS X.
It has all you want and guess what? You don't have to wait 2006!
This is rather amusing, because it points out an odd trend amongst "technophiles" in computing today. Somehow or other, *NIX kernels have become synonymous with "software excellence." When this trend started is not entirely clear to me, but I'd say post-1995 for sure. If it is indeed a FUD campaign, it seems to be succeeding, because 10 years ago if anyone had mentioned that *NIX kernels were superior to modern OS multi-threaded microkernels they would have been laughed into submission.
BSD-style *NIX kernels are NOT, contrary to what you may have heard, the end-all be-all of OS kernel design. In fact, most people who architect operating systems for a living will tell you that most of the concepts contained therein are good ideas, but they're somewhat stale and in need of some serious revision.
I don't have the time or the inclination to go through a feature-by-feature comparison between a modern *NIX kernel and NT, but I'll point out a few examples. The NT kernel's native support for threads and access control list kernel object security are superior to what the *BSD kernels offer. Other newer features like microarchitecture to support several different system call APIs are virtually on par feature for feature with *BSD.
So why would switching the kernel make the OS any better? If a kernel has the necessary features it requires, performs well, and provides remarkable stability, that's just about all that a kernel can do.
I think you're confusing the recent security problems discovered in the Windows system with problems in the kernel itself, which are few and far between. Holes in IIS, or SQL Server, or even the "RPC System Service" are NOT problems with the NT kernel, and they should not be confused with them.
Don't misunderstand me: I think the number of features that have been integrated into the Unix framework over the years (by the Linux and *BSD projects) is astounding and a telling tribute to what the research communities can accomplish when they work together. But that doesn't mean they're superior to what alternative OS kernels can do.
And did I mention that trivial bugs needn't be fatal flaws if the kernel enforces proper user level security? If I hadn't, then I will say it now. Trivial bugs needn't be fatal flaws if the kernel enforces proper user level security!!!!
I don't even know how to address this one. The NT kernel does MUCH more for security than any *NIX kernel. The trick is, people writing software that runs on the kernel have to make USE of these features properly. NT offers complete Access Control Lists and security descriptors for every possible kernel object. This is just about as granular as you can get, and better than the simple "rwx" permissions on file descriptors available in *NIX kernels.
Now, why everyone logs into the Windows Shell with a superuser security account is an entirely different matter, but it is NOT the kernel's fault!
I am a Mac user (used to admin XP boxes), so those who want to skip this, go ahead.
I don't nearly hate Microsoft as much as some of the fanatic zealots, I've used Windows in all colours from 95 to XP to 2k Advanced Server, and I actually think that mostly it's good enough. I have found software relatively easy to install and use, and security to be mostly ok if one took the time to take note of patches and security warnings (Blaster could have been avoided by most by simply closing the port or stopping the service). I even find Office to be good enough, even though I have never used more than perhaps 20% of its features. The OS has definitely improved in XP and major apps like those from Adobe or Macromedia run better there than on my Mac.
What I still don't like about Windows is the lack of UI consisitency. The dialogs and window layout in system critical components is anything but easy to comprehend and most often just resembles a mess of older dialogs that have been rearranged and newer ones that have been "tacked" on.
However, for most people, Windows has been good enough even though the vast majority of PC users do NOT really understand how their computer works (and why should they?). Now on to my Longhorn puzzlings:
1. I think MS has the cash reserves to withstand major mistakes that no other company can afford to make. Witness the subsidy of the XBox. MS can really afford to make major OS mistakes and the money will still flow in as the sheer momentum of all those millions of PCs that get sold all have Windows OEM on them. The situation might change a bit by 2006 in that Linux could well have achieved some critical mass in the business world by then. That possibility is, by all accounts very real, and I doubt that any business that will have switched to Linux will ever switch back to Windows, no matter how good it is, simply for the price point, which MS cannot beat. In home PCs I seriously doubt that Linux will have made huge gains by 2006. Some but not much. Windows is too entrenched in the home, I think.
2.MS cash reserves could dry up very quickly if no new products arrive by 2006, but as some else mentioned, there's 64bit computing to consider, although I think Apple and especially Linux will beat them to the gun with uptake initially. I think that in the server arena, Linux will definitely beat Windows in 64bit computing.
3.MS' UI task oriented approach as implemented in XP will almost certainly be a major feature in Longhorn in order to make the PC easier for home users to understand, but unless they address the issue with user newbie feedback studies, it will only confuse users as much as the current approach.
4.The new compositing model, will probably present MS with major headaches initially as legacy software will probably work but not as well as it did before. It will be used to market the hell out of Longhorn though.
5.Microsoft will, I'm sure, use whatever methods they can to lock future users in, be it server incompatibilities with Exchange or with DRM or with special pproprietry protocols, they will do as much as they can. They will certainly try to get hardware makers to implement features that lock out Linux, such as hardware DRM, and an MS coded BIOS that will break the hardware if changed, or things like DirectX only graphic cards. I'm sure MS sees this as a point in their survival.
6.Lonhorn is probably a make or break milestone for Microsoft. They probably want to get as many users as possible onto XP and 2k3 server before Longhorn arrives. Longhorn will probably be for them like Win95 was, released with huge media attention pointing out the ease and beauty of the new OS. The timing is probably ok because their marketshare won't drastically erode by then. The only questions will be how far Linux and OSX will have progressed by then (probably quite a lot judging by what's happened since 2000) and if the enterprise will not have changed by then.
. . .upgrade the Flight Simulator in Excel.
I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.
Well Lets Get this straight... Win3.1 Was not a OS... Its was Simply a Colorful Clown Suit for DOS nothing more.
Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt
and many have the appearance of troll, contributing little to discussion (i.e. your arrogant little "I knew that already" hard drive comment) ...I have a feeling that YOU are the young angry man behind the keyboard....feeling inadequate?
How original! A simulated analog clock!
but that doesn't seem to stop them.
I think your either an MS jackass or a trying-hard IT staff in a company that nobody takes your opinion with a second thought...
Y? in posts ur so defensive and combative:->
Truth nowadays is based upon the general consensus of the many
I'm unfamiliar with this message queue flaw. Please post some links to more information.
Thanks.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Because I don't wear clothes while I post?
Say, you're wearing clothes yourself. Do they sell man-clothes where you bought that?
Even though you're sticking with Windows 2000, which is what many Windows users are planning to do, you threw away your options on refusing DRM when you installed SP3. Windows 2000 SP3 gives MS admin rights to your box, which has been suggested as a means to force upgrades even if it means breaking your existing applications. MS has worked hard and long enough to earn its shoddy reputation that I don't doubt that if it stays in business, it will eventually force DRM once Palladium (aka NGSCB/BIOS/LaGrande/Office2003) reaches critical market saturation.
Though as a business you have more flexibility as there is less obligation to keep records accessible to the public than would a government agency or service. Plus if vendor lock-in and unreasonable IT costs tip your business over the edge into bankruptcy, no one except you would notice. Every one else just sees a failed company.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
how about this one?
G5 and OSX :)
i agree, it was the only deployable show in town that my clients could afford. i still wence at the 'URL Resourse' error...
Given the rate that technology changes, three years is the equivalent of the product being dropped. What did Bill really do with the money from License 6 and BSA audits? I mean aside from sit in his Windowless mansion and say 'neener-neener' to all the suckers.