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Mac OS X Panther 10.3 Reviewed
JigSaw writes "OSNews posted a (constructively) critical, but also favorable review of Mac OS X Panther 10.3. The article discusses the new features, what works great and what's still sour, and it also includes a plethora of screenshots." The review's conclusion suggests Panther is "...a worthy operating system, easy to use, easy to set up, easy to get pleased by it. It just works."
Will it fix the massive bugs introduced into Bluetooth that have yet to be fixed?
How about the problems with remote filesystems? Put your powerbook to sleep with any volume mounted, even read-only with no files open, and you'll basically have to restart(not even a umount -f will unmount the volume) because almost every app will show a spinning pizza of death.
How about the bug that exists in most G4 powerbooks, where changing the volume level too quickly under "heavy load" causes the balance to shift?
Every OS X release has been rather half-baked, although Apple is certainly doing better now than with 10.0 and 10.1...but it's still irritating that several bugs which affect me on a day to day basis will require dishing out another $100+, when I just bought a $3,000 laptop 2-3 months ago(my fourth powerbook, eighth mac, btw.)
Please help metamoderate.
Just the improvements in PDFs, such as fine tuned control over PDF creation and fast PDF viewing, will more than justify the upgrade cost for me. With Panther for $130, I won't have to spend a couple hundred dollars to buy the full version of Acrobat & Distiller to make PDFs with customized compression settings, etc.
Beyond that, all the other changes could be just frosting on top, except that many of them are almost as compelling.
This is an upgrade I'm anxiously awaiting, and an upgrade that I think is definitely worth the price.
Personally, I open and fix a hardware ONLY if I am sure that I will not regret of voiding any warranty (for example, no warrant already).
Less is more !
I noticed that with Jaguar and I noticed the same with Panther: about 10-20% of the third party applications just won't load anymore, or they will crash on load. I understand that this policy has dsitinct advantages, but that's a lot of incompatable apps (out of 7,000 available for OSX) and while most of these will be recompiled in the next few months by their authors, the inconvienience caused is already there.
I have never understood why Mac developers and users tolerate Apple screwing them over every couple of years. Say what you will about Microsoft, but they do spent enormous effort trying to avoid this problem on each release, and the effort shows in their market share. And of course open source doesn't require you to wait a few months to recompile...
And when I said #2, I wasn't talking about their position in the market.
So many design agencies are still stuck in OS 9, it's going to take them a bit of time to upgrade. The Macs have worked so well and reliable in deadline operations and people take time to train in the new OS.
Don't go changing things too much if you please. Spend some of that creative energy figuring out how to get the G5 into the Powerbook line and pester ATI to give us Mac users a powerful 3D rendering card for Lightwave and Maya.
I think Apple might be doing a Netscape by bloating their OS, I think they have to remember updates sometime AREN'T good things.
I have over 70 freaks, do you?
(he said with karma to burn)
What have you done with the Eugenia we all know and love - you know, the damning with faint praise, lak of spel cjekr, unmitigated beos - er, bias - er, well, you know...
Ok, couldn't resist. I take back all the flame emails - not because it's a favorable-to-Mac review, but because she's far more even handed and objective than ever. Brava, Eugenia!
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
She has some complaints about the dock, but one of them just didn't make any sense at all:
Another personal gripe I have is that I can't change the color of the Dock and I can't place apps beneath it without resorting to hacks
What is she talking about? You don't need to hack the dock for apps to exist beneath it!
Sound waves should be free!
This has been true for a looooong time, but seems to be swept under the carpet. If MS broke this many applications, the linux and apple zealots would be gloating like the DNC at Rush Limbaugh.
Personally, I think its really bad, and I feel bad for the users, but Apple has historically not really cared all *that* much about the end users. If it cant go on the JumboTron behind an AppleWorld keynote speach, it isnt really that important to them.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
Any competent tech can instantly see where you went wrong. Tying a heatsink to the motherboard with insulated wire might work with a PC, but not a Mac. Macs are too high tech for that.
Next time use Bazooka brand bubblegum. ONLY Bazooka brand will work due to the peculiar properties of the confectioner's sugar they use; and of course the bubblegum itself acts as a gap filler.
This is why you should always pay an expert. $50 would have saved you a grand in the long run. You pay to have the oil changed in your car, don't you? You understand that oil changing is a precise process in an expensive and highly sensitive machine. Your Mac is much higher tech than your car and only a trained and experienced tech nows all the little tricks, gained over years in the field.
At least before you do something like this go to alt.comp.sci.screwthenewb. A lot of us hang out there just to forward information like this to people such as yourself.
We're, what you call, altruistic.
KFG
purchased more than zero Apple products? Wow, you must be either really stupid, or cannot handle a multi-button mouse. Anyone with 12 Apple products needs to be summarily shot! Steve Jobs blows goats! And what is all the bullfeathers about the over priced G5's? They make nice toasters...
You replaced the fan with one that was not powerful enough, and as a result, fried your CPU... why should they replace/fix your machine for free?
Sure, the fan had what sounds like a well documented noise problem...apple were offering an exchange program for the faulty components. Not sure what the deal is now.
They screw their users over every year, not every couple. Oh, and their non-US users every hour of every day.
I've read dozens of OS reviews like this, were all you get is a review of the install and a quick tour of the new features - only here there's Eugenia's inevitable comparisons to BEOS. Deeply exciting I'm sure, but somehow I suspect better reviews will appear within the next couple of days.
So good of you to point this out. I stopped using Macs years ago and my memory has gotten fuzzy hehe.
My understanding is that HFS+ is case-preserving. For people switching from Linux/BSD and used to a case=sensitive fs, are there options to get case-sensitive (you can install ufs but you'll lose journalling)
You understand that oil changing is a precise process in an expensive and highly sensitive machine.
Sheez, what kind of car do you have?! Changing oil doesn't take more than removing the plug beneath, let the old oil out and pumping new oil in at the top of the engine. Most people don't do it at home because you have to get under the car..
History matters..
Apple has an Up-To-Date offer to buy v10.3 for $19.95, for those who've bought a Mac on or after October 8.
However, I bought my new 15" Powerbook a few days after it was announced last month (around Sep 18 or so) and plugged my serial # in for kicks. Lo and behold, I qualified!
I've heard rumors it's unofficially extended back just for certain systems....
There are FAR more apps on the PC that crash under XP, just don't work, or are just poorly written. On average, a 3rd party app for the Mac is written with higher programming/compiling standard. And take note, 3rd party apps ARE NOT Apple Apps.
Besides, one of the programs, I believe this guy was talking about was a Haxie that Panther addresses.
Also, I only use respected 3rd party applications. Adobe, Microsoft, and my favorite shareware (Graphic Converter from Lemkesoft) all come out with INSTANT updates if an update needs to be released.
The article extrapolates statistics too much and is a weak review at best. While I don't expect everything to work and everything to be favorable, at least Apple quickly addresses software/OS issues with updates.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
There are always developers who cheat the APIs a little, and mostly the small shops and shareware folks. Many of them don't think it's a big deal because they update soon enough, and some of them cheat them because they can't afford a real QA/testing team. But most of those apps/developers get the bugs sorted out within a few months -- as the article author pointed out.
If you tolerate risk, by all means get the dot zero version any major software release from any vendor.
If you are risk averse, the smart thing is to always wait a little, perhaps until the first update. In the mac world, you could choose to get 10.3.1, whenever that is, if you desired.
Not everyone has the same tolerance for risk, incompatibility, or new territory.
Gnome Screenshots
KDE Screenshots.
Which ones look better?
The reason is that the GTK theming api is reatared and Pixmap based. The SVG hacks are awful too. KDE can use programmable themes, that are also more flexible and FAST too! Now go away and type (or your equivilent)
apt-get uninstall gnome
apt-get install kde-3.2-alpha!
sorry, but in my world, 10.2 -> 10.3 is classed
as a minor revision change... often done for free
or for a small amount of money.
Askign users who have just bought a $2000 system
to part with another $160 to remove bugs and add
more problems is a bit much!
$40 is more reasonable...but, as I said above,
in my world, minor revisions are free (ESPECIALLY
when the system is still under a warranty).
Those who dont have 10.x yet, pay. Those already
on that release train should get discount!
I seem remember a US court suggesting Microsoft's current market share is a result of an illegal monopoly.
Oh wait. maybe you're right, i sould use windows cause it's bug free and never breaks support with 3rd party developers...
It sounds a lot like you don't understand. It's ok. You can use Windows, and I'll use my g4 with OSX
Yes, yes it will. In fact, you'd better by the Family license just in case you have other PC's lying around that you want to install it on.
And Windows is the de-facto standard desktop OS. Does this mean it's good?
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Actually I'd never have called it "dying" (it seemed to be going at a remarkable pace for a, basically, one-man project), but Hardin says he's decided to accelerate it further by basing the installer on Debian Sarge's instead of rolling his own.
Not connected in any way, but emulating NeXT/OS X goodness rather than Windows seems like a damn nice idea.
Reading your letter, it's perfectly clear that you voided your warranty. Apple has had an exchange program in place to fix the noise issue you were experiencing. Please do not blame Apple for your own ignorance.
Bob
The PC Weenies: 11 Years of Online Tech 'Too
Given that there are just plain orders of magnitude more applications for PCs than for Macs, that's not surprising. It's not, however, a general indictment of the relative quality of Windows XP to Mac OS. And at least MS doesn't charge $129 for patches.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
Eugenia wrote a critical review of a non-Microsoft product? What a shock.
Maybe that's why my Apple shares are doing so well...
We're all dying, slowly day-by-day. So, what's your point?
The PC Weenies: 11 Years of Online Tech 'Too
"...added a superior cooling system to the machine, quietened it, IMPROVED it in every way..."
Who is this stank bitch you're lampooning? It's pretty funny, but is this based on a real person or a caricature of someone?
Inquiring minds want to know!
In all fairness... it's possible that the cpu was damaged with the old fan set. Overheating does reduce the life of a CPU.
However, you gotta read the fine print before you do shit like this. I mean, in the CPU world, your warrenty is void if you use something other then what was provided or they reccomended. While it's "good" you got a new heat sync and fan to replace the one that didn't seem to be doing it's job, you made the fatal mistake of not putting your machine back to stock specs when returning it under warrenty.
Based on the parent post, I can't tell if they added an adquate cooling solution or not. And ya know, i'm sure apple doesn't know either. If you want the warrenty, got to get Apple approved stuff. Sorry, no way around this. Will cost you more, but if that warrenty is worth it to you pay it. If you really are in a bind, keep the old stuff that failed, put it back in.
Neither does Apple.
You'd be happier if this was MacOS X '04 or something?
I'd like to know where that percentage of broken apps came from. I doubt anyone's tested 7000+ apps on an OS that isn't even officially out yet, so I'm guessing this is one person testing a few dozen on their personal machine and extrapolating. If the provided test selection is heavily biased towards system hacks, I'd expect failure...
I've seen this guy's silly troll before, it's a cut n paste job - don't even trouble yourself with it.
That was classic intercourse!
can anyone confirm/deny that Apple has expanded ftp support in the finder ? (preferable expanded to sftp also)
Right now, the jaguar finder has built in read only ftp, which plain sux
I know : there are many excellent ftp clients available, but being able to mount a volume over ftp as with the iDisk would be extremely user-friendly.
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
You mean sarcasm.
And yet it's still cheaper to buy the mac OS:
f tw are.html
http://simplest-shop.com/Macintosh--1-229660-so
Let's see
X.1 Sept 28, 2001
X.2 Aug 23, 2002
That puts 11 months between those two releases
And assuming the earliest release of X.3 in sept, that would be 13 months from the last release. And 16 months in december.
By contrast:
Windows 2000 , Feb 17 2000
Windows ME released Sept 14 2000
That would be 7 months
Windows XP Oct 25 2001
That would be 13 months
And lets compare prices:
Mac OS X $130 always (full version)
Windows 2000 $320
Windows ME $110 (upgrade) or $210 (full)
XP Home $100 (upgrade) $200 (full)
XP Pro $200 (upgrade) $300 (full)
So from OS X.0 to X.3
March 2001 to (assumed) Sept 2003 (31 Months)
You've spent $390
From Windows 2000 to Windows XP (19 Months)
Feb 2000 to Oct 2001
You spend at minimum $530 and at most $830
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
I've been using it for about two weeks now, and I'll say that hands-down expose' is the best thing to have to get people's attention when you want to show off a computer. I'm in China, where Macs are a rare breed, and when I show people expose' their eyes practically pop out of their heads. It's worth it just for that.
By the way, how do I type the accent mark in a slashdot posting? Safari lets me enter it, but slashdot strips it.
How about we wait another 8 days before we start talking about problems with Panther. This is more of a what to expect page but I am SURE the beta the author used will be a LOT different then the final product. Geez!
Seems like the author just needed something to talk about since the beta has been available for some time and what to expect was well documented in MacWorld like 2 months ago!
I've been using a preview version of Panther for a month now and I must say that Expose is the greatest GUI innovation in ages. It looks cool in demos, but it's even better when you actually use it. I much prefer it to virtual desktops as a method to organize windows.
Unfortunately it seems to becoming increasingly necessary to check a poster's history before taking them at all seriously :-(
I didn't want to wait another week until the release, so I grabbed the build claiming to be 7B85 that's been floating around on BitTorrent, and put it on a spare G4/350 I've got lying around.
I like the new installer, it's a little more informative about its progress. As for the OS itself, the GUI feels significantly faster, even on a creaky old 350MHz machine without the benefit of enough VRAM to use Quartz Extreme. They seem to have really tightened up the code quite a bit-- for shits and giggles, I ran xBench on it in 10.3, and in 10.2.8 on a different partition on the same drive. Results: Panther, 47; Jaguar, 40-- a decent improvement. I can't wait to see what it's like on my iBook 800, but that upgrade will wait until I have a purchased copy next week.
When I get some more time I'm going to take the Active Directory authentication and Mail.app's Exchange connectivity for a spin and see how that is.
~Philly
you never change the filter? I'll stick to paying someone thanks.
And at least MS doesn't charge $129 for patches.
What do you call Windows98 SE? The Microsoft Plus Packs? The differences between 10.2.x and 10.3.x are much larger than either of these. This is not a "patch" but a mid-sized upgrade. I will be buying the upgrade as it is worth the money.
And as someone who supports both MacOS (9/X) and Windows, there was for more apps that broke (or needed major playing with the compatibility settings) than have broken on me going to the 10.3 beta I am running. And the only apps that I have seen break are ones that do nasty things and use non-documented API's. These are expected to break anytime something breaks, and were hacks to begin with.
Considering that I have tried 12 year old games on MacOS X 10.3 (betas) and they have worked.. I think Apple has done an exemplary job of keeping compatibility.
They are just an unfortunate historical accident that is slowly being corrected in more and more OSes.
eg Windows, OS X, OS 400 are all case insensitive.
Any more examples?
What I really want to know is how does Panther work with AD. Managing users on individual systems is a headache. I have heard roumers that it is now easy to get it to play nice with an AD domain. Has anybody set it up in a production environment?
One big problem we were having with 10.2 was that our our Mac users could see our broadcast CUPS queues from the linux printserver, but when they tried to print to them it sometimes came out garbled, and with PDF's would hang the Mac Printcenter and sometimes the CUPS queue too. It was a while ago, but it had something to do with extra imbedded MAC only filters for imbedding PS images into PDF... getting vauge with time. Anyway it came down to Apple teaking CUPS out of compliance with the CUPS "standard." A patch was submitted (by another slashdot reader - care to speak up?) but I don't know if it was ever implemented. Anyone else know if this had been fixed in 10.3?
Also, your comment on Emacs is ridiculous. 1.) The lack of the meta key to which you refer is greatly exagerrated. On PCs, which no doubt constitute the huge majority of computers nowadays, it's often the ALT key. 2.) You can press escape to invoke the same function as with the meta key (i.e. esc-x does the same thing as M-x) And 3.) anyway, the "meta key" can be mapped to any other key convenient for you.
--- Live and Learn Crash and Burn
Right, it certainly is important. However, having installed Panther, it doesn't require more than a single paragraph. It's that easy.
This guy may be a troll...but what about all of the fried video cards on eMacs? A neighboring school district bought over 100, and over 50 had fried boards in the first three months...and in fact, they're now sending them ALL back to get "repaired" at Apple. POS if you ask me, but it's just what I've been saying...Macs may appear pretty to some eyes, but they have the same Taiwanese crap on the inside...
I seriously doubt it. They'd have to change HFS+, which is case-insensitive, and that might well break a number of apps.
that Apple is really sticking it to their customers....it's a crime.
..ONE MORE TIME...there will be a huge revolt.
But I doubt that they will ever reach the heights of ass-reaming Microsoft has given THEIR customers.
Their shit is held together with bubblegum and ducttape.
Why do you think Longhorn won't be out till 2006?
Because Bill knows the gig is up, if he releases another OS that takes it in the ass vulnerability-wise
quote from Eugenia: /* why not be able to enjoy Red Hot Chilli Peppers or Linkin Park videos as the average Windows user can at 300 kbps? :P */
Because the word "enjoy" does not immediately come to mind when the words "Linkin Park" are uttered, you can safely say you "enjoy" them just as easily as the typical Windows user by not watching them at all.
Jesus.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
Yer such a tool buddy. Someone should give you a mac commercial for being so stupid.
Superb! 10/10!!!
The author states in the article "I installed clean on both my Macs, because upgrading wouldn't work on my 12" Powerbook (Jaguar "had errors" the installation was insisting). That was not a big deal for me as I don't have any important data on my Macs, but it may be troublesome for people who who are trying to install on their primary machine."
Then he goes and gives "Installation" a 10 out of 10. What gives? This actually is a big concern for me though. I don't want to have to do a clean install of this OS. To save all my data, reinstall all my applications, etc. Can I do it? Yes. Do I want to? No. Doesn't anyone else find this a bit disconcerting?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
How about a review of the writer's grammar skills? Whew, what a train wreck! That was tough to read.
OS X 10.1 was a free upgrade. The most anyone paid for it was $20 shipping and handling for a CD.
Actually yes it does fix all of that. And if you send in those neat-o certificated that you "$3000 powerbook" came with, they'll send you a copy for $19.
My
Good show!!!
I'm sick of hearing these people spout their ignorance about Apple upgrade prices when they don't look into their own back yards first.
... about half of which are really of Panther running X Windows, not the Panther features mentioned in the review. While it's interesting to see how KDE & Gnome look, it's not really discussed in the review in detail. And the something like the new Expose feature would have been easier to see than explain.
Would you say we have a plethora of screenshots?
Jefe, what is a plethora?
When does this happen in the movie?
They'd have to change HFS+, which is case-insensitive, and that might well break a number of apps.
Case sensitive HFS+ (Journaled) support is now included, as an option, with Mac OS X Panther Server 10.3.
Yes according to this macrumors article , "The additional option is available under the Panther Disk Utility and is called "Mac OS Extended (case sensitive/journaled)"".
User of recent Panther builds verified this option was present. See the related forum .
VMS is also case insensitive.
...introduced in 10.2. I know I'm not the only one who's had their sound balance slide itself over. But no more! *does a happy dance*
-- n
Panther does provide the option of a case-sensitive FS. You have to reformat to get it. Journaling continues to be supported.
"The biggest new feature on Mac OS X, according to Apple, is the new Metal-looking, multi-threaded Finder"
"Additionally, when double-clicking apps to load, a nice effect will zoom in and fade the icon's application, giving the user a smooth launch feedback feeling."
"The effect is like a big bang, with each window shrinking in size and moving outward until they're all on one plane."
"Fast User Switching' is here too and it allows you to change users without logging out of your applications (by using another cool looking QuartzExtreme-powered special effect). "
"If you are using a metal application and you invoke an alert or an "attached" child window on the master window, the effect of the way the child window pops up out is impressive"
Bet they could increase performance significantly if they got rid of all this "gee-whiz" garbage.
And what is with these brushed metal applications? I thought the whole point of an OS was to have a consistent GUI.
Dude, you are correct that there are no laws regarding English being our national language. However, the news was just released earlier this week that 80% of the people in this country speak English as their primary language. The other 20% is spread across all of the (great) languages you mentioned. I do believe that 80%=English speaking country. The only people that want to disagree with this are the ones that don't speak English all that well.
If you follow you outlined procedure what you will end up with is a several quart puddle of oil on the ground and a motor that siezes up within a matter of yards.
You neglected to a) carefully position the vehicle over a storm drain and b) apply Bubblicious (and only Watermelon Wave does the job right) properly over the drain hole in the oil pan.
Please leave this sort of complicated procedure to the pros, we know what we're doing. You don't.
Q.E.D.
KFG
I don't know why everyone this OS X is so great. It's not the impression I got from using it for several hours.
Clicking one of the windows in the background brings only that window to the foreground (makes only that window active) and allows the windows that were open in the original application to overlap the windows that are open in the application that is now the active application. If I have more than one window open at a time it is almost certainly a problem because I need to see them all at once in order to be able to do my work. Making only the window that was clicked active rather than all the windows for the parent application seems almost counter-intuitive and always results in having to either click the application in the "dock" or select the windows from the Window menu. Regardless, it's an extra click or three I never had to do before.
Also, what happened to my Apple menu? It may not have been perfect, but please, it was pretty damn close. I know people who have completely customized their Apple menu and couldn't conceive of working without it. I'd love to see the usability justification for this one.
I am embarrassed to tell you how much I spent on my TiBook last summer because as a web developer, it seemed like a really good choice, and it would be if I wasn't constantly waiting for the spinning beach ball or for windows to resize. Some of the sluggishness may be due to the fact that I have a number of background processes running that most users probably do without (sendmail, mysql, to name a couple).
Now that I think of it, has anyone else noticed that the mouse moves MUCH faster in OS 9 than it possibly can in OS X? I guess we need to slow things down when trying to hit moving targets... another one for which I wonder what the usability justification was. And what about keyboard shortcuts? It used to be you could type your way to the desired file by using the Command+arrow combo to get to the folder in question, and then type the name of the desired file to highlight it and hit Enter (or Return) to open it. That was great. It was fast and worked perfectly. That I know of, none of my applications do this properly or without some bugs (when trying this with Word while writing this, Word crashed).
Well, I guess I've rambled enough here. It just didn't live up to its hype. There are a few other annoyances I've noticed with X, but most of them are probably me just being picky with the new UI. *sigh*
Argh, please tell me 7B85 is not 10.3.0. NFS is buggy in this build. mounts get stale and won't even unmount, "permission denied". Also if the automounter hangs and you kill it you're soon going to be without any disk access, even local one.
why does his uname -a show GNU/Linux?
Sweeeeet! I entered the details for my new AlBook (bought in September) and UpToDate said OK. This is what Apple should have done to begin with.
I know, DNFTT
If you pronounce OS X as OS 'ecks', then you see where the version number REALLY is. As Apple users, we are actually paying for makjor releases:
Also, people have been paying for new version of Solaris this whole time, so I fail to see new OS X as 'minor' and 'free' releases.
Heute die Welt, morgen das Sonnensystem!
You bastard. Stop giving me a bad name. HOMPH.
Join Tor today!
After lots of complaining from new PowerBook users, it seems that Apple changed the qualifying criteria (from just new G5 users to G5 and new 15" PB users) quietly the same day of the announcement. Rumors of this quiet change were found in certain Mac discussion site forums. Thusly, I have my invoice for an Up To Date copy.
You Suck!
It's not case-insensitive, it's case-preserving. There is a difference. Saying it's case-insensitive is just as wrong as saying it's case-sensitive.
That's a very ironic double-negative there...
HFS+ is "case-aware" in that it understands the difference between capital and lowercase letters. It is not, however, case-sensitive. You cannot name a file "MyFile" and "myfile" in the same folder. This makes sense. Apple never intentionally confuses users. A folder full of "MyFile, Myfile, myFile, myfile" is nothing but a disaster from usability standpoint.
Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
What do you call Windows98 SE? The Microsoft Plus Packs? The differences between 10.2.x and 10.3.x are much larger than either of these. This is not a "patch" but a mid-sized upgrade. I will be buying the upgrade as it is worth the money.
I'm pretty sure you could get all (or most of) the extra patches and drivers (like USB support) in SE from windows update without having to purchase an upgrade. At least in Windows you aren't forced to pay for patches to get bug fixes.
Considering that I have tried 12 year old games on MacOS X 10.3 (betas) and they have worked..
I guess since your old programs work, every old program must work..
I think Apple has done an exemplary job of keeping compatibility.
Yeah, like how OSX just boots the entire 9 os if you run an older mac app. Give me a break!
Interoperability with Windows is even better now. Samba seems to work really well. There is Exchange support, and VPN access to Windows networks is there too. On the third disk you will also find a package with support for Common Access Cards. ?
huh? really? exchnage?
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
I'm looking forward to using Panther but I'm disappointed that machines that didn't ship with USB are being orphaned with this round. For a workaround we'll have to wait for XpostFacto to be updated. I really doubt that a Wallstreet G3/300 is significantly different to support than a Lombard PowerBook. This looks very much like a purely marketing driven decision rather than one based on technical issues. The drivers already in 10.2.x supported my USB 2/Firewire combo PCMCIA card right out of the box. I wish Apple would understand that many like myself are eager to buy new machines as justified for GOOD reasons (like vastly improved performance for demanding tasks), and that dropping support without good technical cause just breeds resentment and costs them OS upgrade sales. I generally avoid running unlicensed software but I'm feeling very reluctant to actually pay for copies of the OS that need 3rd party hacks to install on unsupported machines. Running Panther here isn't essential, but I'd sure like to see the same version of the OS on the old and new machines. Retiring machines prematurely is not only a waste of money, it is environmentally irresponsible. I suspect that in some settings having a portion of the installed machines orphaned would give Mac-hostile managers an excuse to jump platforms. It's a bit ironic that default OS installs include hundreds of megabytes for printers and languages we won't use, but not the little extra it'd take for slightly older Apple hardware. Shades of "Gil killed my dog" I guess...
You aren't forced to do so on the Mac, either. Unless the Software Update program on my Mac that recently bumped me from OS X.2.7 to OS X.2.8 is just a hallucination on my part.
If this really happened, call Apple back and scream at them.
The $19.95 upgrade is good for ALL G5 systems, regardless of the time of purchase.
Hope that helps.
D
Isn't it hard to accuse Apple of bloating the OS when every release gets *faster* and *more* efficient?
Or the features are *more* effective?
Like better Samba, and thus Windows, networking? Or better printing? Remote volume protocols? Etc?
GPL Deconstructed
Actually, you can't get USB support through a patch for Win98. I recently had to help a friend install Win98 SE over Win98 just so she could get a USB zip drive to work.
Is this only in Panther Server or also in Panther ?
The reviewer rated the part of the installation 10/10 (at the end of the review), although at the beginning of the review he tells us, he could only do a 'fresh install', while 'upgrade' would not work and produce some error.
yeah, sure, perfect 10, i like to be rated in the same way on my next PR.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
I was about to post the same passage, but for a different reason...
I find that it is only the applications that use unsupported system calls and work-arounds that tend to get 'knocked out' by the system updates. A lot of the interface hacks and such often need to get readjusted after Apple improves the parts of the OS that they don't document.
I find that for the most part, 'properly written applications' (and I don't mean that in a derogatory way -- I undertstand the need to write unsupported hacks and all) actually get better 'for free' with each subsequent update. Speed, file and feature improvements in the guts make their way up to the apps.
Just a thought,
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
Good lord, this was funny. Savage, merciless - but terribly funny. If this be "trolling," /. could use a lot more of it.
According to this macrumors story there is an option in the Panther disk utility. However in 7B85 I do not see this option. I had originally thought it was Panther Server only but maybe this is not the case and they have just removed it from the final release. I suggest you google it if you want more information as this is as much as I know. I suppose you could use UFS if case sensitivity is really a necessity for you.
The idea of having zoomable overviews of desktops really isn't all that new. Some X11 window managers have had them in one form or another. The 3dDesktop project gives you that capability and more (Expose! is a special case in which you map all the windows onto a flat surface).
Expose! sounds like it's nice engineering, but it's not a ground-breaking new insight.
hi there
i was quit delighted when i saw, that there is a programm called "Virtual PC" out there from Microsoft.
I found some articles, in the net, that back in the days, when Connectix was the producer of "Virtual PC", that it was possible to boot gnu/linux and gnu/herd and other fancy stuff in a window right on your mac.
what i wonder now, is if Microsoft now beeing the producer of "Virtual PC 6.1" has dropt this feature or not.
yes i confess, i would buy a software from microsoft, but only if, i can use it to test boot x86 kernels in it.
has anyone any experience with this under OS X?
thanx
Anyone who is currently using the beta version of Panther, do Adobe products run on it? I heard a rumor that it didnt support Adobe products, and wanted to make sure that was not true before I upgraded.
Heh. Yeah, no important data on my Mac. Just my life!
Sure, it's backed up, but I have neither the time nor the interest in putting things on hold while I reinstall everything - jeez, that's why I'm not on a Windoze platform.
I might wait for 10.3.1. But I'll definitely wait long enough to see what the early adopters go through.
The same crap that fills your skull?
Your comments don't float anymore. Maybe the first time you posted them, yes. But that was last year or so, so now we know you are bluffing.
Your comments don't hold water, and you are trolling in an obvious manner.
Boooh.
TurboD
I bought a new PowerBook when they came out, and had around 3 weeks of testing with both Jaguar & Panther, which i got last monday (dev version). I thought some feedback from a Windows to Linux to MacOS X switcher could interrest some of you folks. I haven't 'officially' switched to MacOS X yet for several reasons. Most of which are minor details concerning habits and my way of working, I'm mostly a Perl dev. The only good reason why i am not switching and won't probably switch in the future is an obvious lack of any kind of basic customization.
;-), others are very very minor and not very annoying.
Most Mac users have a very strong argumentation in favor of their way of working and the gains they get from it, however should that be a reason to force this way of working on all users? This where i do not agree. This ain't a freakin Jihad! Although some of you obviously think it is, my expectations for anything claiming excellency are reliability, performance and flexibility. Flexibility isn't met if i can't change the behavior of my interface to my likings, no matter the advantages and disadvantages of my choices. Your way might be better, just like catholism might be better than islam, there are simply no good reasons to enforce it!
Some of the details: Keep in mind that i only have a few weeks of training ( ordinary everyday usage ) with Jaguar and even less with Panther. If you see something on my list that can be fixed ( easily or not ), please give me some feedback, i might switch the less annoyances i see. I'm not listing all, some will just generate flames
1. I would like to be able to configure the behavior of the 'X', '-' & '+' buttons of a window.
I can understand why some folks say the 'X' behavior is far more logical than the traditionnal behavior. Suppose you start a deamon. The program window pops up, you configure it and close the interface ( window ), not the program. That makes a lot of sense, however, how often do you think a dev like myself configures deamons? Almost never, therefor that behavior becomes useless and very annoying to me. Yeah, yeah now i have to change my habits to 'cmd'-Q, which is annoying and doesn't provide much more efficiency. For me it just becomes another '-'.
I define 'Maximizing' as taking the maximum amount of space a window can. The '+' is not a maximize button for it only maximizes to what the application think is the maximum. I find this simply illogical. Usually, you first resize a maximized window to what you'd want it to be, so the app remembers it and you finally have something that looks like a maximize. In my mind, this is doing too much for something that should require only one setting in system preferences. I don't like setting maximums on all my windows all the time, it's simply annoying as hell.
2. I would like to be able to resize any window from any border.
I don't like dragging before resizing or resizing and then dragging, it's painful and a waste. Yes i do want my windows placed carefully and strategically on my desktop, so i can read from several of them at the same time without touching any controls. With the resize border only in the lower right corner, this becomes extremelly annoying.
3. Moving things around.
Lots of ppl like the dock-style interface MacOS has. I do not hate it, it's just incredibly unconfigurable. You can only move it left, right & bottom and can't even "uncenter" the biatch! True some folks like zooming, genie and whatever fx you can code for it. But you know what ? The most important thing is missing, and that's flexibility. What if i don't want the trash in there, because my dock is tiny ? What if i want the clock on the dock ? What if i want the dock to take the maximum amount of horizontal space ? Etc... I'm not mentionning that weird app bar at the top, with which you can do just about nothing.
Some thoughts about why i would like the clock to be on the dock in the lower right corner. The lower right corner is sim
Is it just me, or does the second screenshot with the iconbox look exactly like Enlightenment with any of the generic Aqua themes out there? All in all, I am... well, uninformed :-) Haven't gotten the chance to try 10.3 yet.
Don't you have chores to do? Allowance to earn? Surely you have more important things to do than project your sad, pathetic sense of humorlessness onto the rest of '/.'? Gameboy Advance levels to master? Navel gazing? Anything...
NEWS FLASH!!!
Sad story coming out of Tulsa, OK. Pre-teen 'Troll', after hours of chicken choking, rolls out of haystack at 4:16 am to deflect sense of personal doubts regarding his heterosexuality by posting dim-witted monologue on '/.' Odd use of 'bold' mark-up is being investigated by handwriting analysts. Early reports suggest that one-handed typing is to blame. Experts believe other hand most likely deformed due to excessive masturbation. More on this breaking story to follow...
(p.s. I call shenanigans on this review's author! Take a look at that collar in her profile! Can you say Apple shill? ;^) )
:wq
Well, I just checked in Panther 10.3 7B85 (the GM build), and I can't find that option anywhere. Maybe Apple pulled it in their final releases.
Congrats, you beat me to the punch, I was just gonna make a nasty comment about that one...
"Microsoft always tries to retain as much compatibility with previous versions as possible while Apple doesn't."
I am dumbfounded as to even how to answer this. Yes, there are a few programs that did not work on the upgrade from Jaguar to Panther. However, the essentials had no problems.... AIM, Quicktime, Safari, etc all worked fine for me. Ok, so there are a couple trivial applications that don't work, but I definitely had no problem running Graphing Calculator under the classic environment, which is a completely different environment, and it amazes me Apple was even able to do this.
Now, we compare this with Microsoft, claiming Microsoft sets good standards for backwards compatability? Eugenia Loli-Queru, you should be slapped. I remember I got my computer with Windows ME. Wow was that a great operating system *&cough* but we'll leave that aside for now. I, not knowing much about computers at the time, decided to do the 'recommended' upgrade to windows XP, rather than the full reinstall. NOTHING worked. Winamp didn't work, Quake3 didn't work, Office didn't work, Novell didn't work, I had to reinstall more or less everything save Internet Explorer.
On top of that, there are a boatload of my favorite programs that never worked on NT anything. Good Old NESticle refused to work on XP, compatability mode or not.
Speaking of DOS games, I remember all of the wonderful old goodies. Space Quest, Quest for Glory, all the others... never worked on any platform made on Win98 or later.
So, Microsoft retains compatability but Apple doesn't? Wow.
Partial Credit: The Engineer's Best friend
"Well, the bridge didn't fall all the way down!"
Are you calling me a liar? I can take you to the computer lab and show you. Or are you just denying the truth? I have made similar comments before...and they are still true. They continue to have problems with their eMacs, including recurring failures of the video boards. My comments hold more water than ever...stay away from eMacs!
Oh, by the way, I've had at least a half-dozen iMacs fry network boards in the past two months (but they convert to wireless pretty well afterwards.) I just cannot believe that people are so willing to turn off reality to embrace a computer brand. I am not a troll, I am not trying to get a "rise" out of anyone. I just want people to hear the truth, and give me the same courtesy.
Kind of odd that so many screenshots in an OS X review are of GNOME and KDE apps (or desktops!) running under Apple's X.
They do indeed look better than the old tabs. However, they no longer visually suggest that they ARE tabs. They just look like a line of buttons that were placed oddly.
I thought Apple knew better than this.
I remember being told to fix some of the numerous bugs in the OSX's java implementation, an OSX upgrade would have to be purchased.
The most common way to cheat APIs is to download the Darwin sources, look at the source code for the OS kernel, and use system calls that aren't documented, or figure out what the side effects are, and then depend upon them.
In other words, Open Source is the way most APIs get cheated.
It does not run on a x86 :(
When it does I'll happily stand in the long lines to buy it.
Thats because most people dont pay for windows.
What sort of idiot would go from 2000 to ME? You obviously don't have a clue about Windows.
Windows ME was based on DOS, a direct continuation from Windows 98.
Windows 2000, on the other hand was based on the far superior NT, a direct continuation from NT4.
No-one would take that upgrade path
I have a Windows 98 (first ed) computer with a USB mouse. USB support was initiated in Win95 OSR2 I believe. 98 has always supported it
I'm running an app from 1992 on Jaguar (via Classic). It still runs beautifully. (That's Microsoft Word 5.1a, the best word processor ever.)
The parent is absolutely right. A lot of developers use unpublished, private API's.
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
The only video defect in the eMacs that I'm aware of was a known issue involving a defective internal video cable. This affected the first several months of eMac production, but has since been corrected. Before the cable problem was identified, the fix was to replace the analog board, which I assume is what happened to that district's lab.
It's unfortunate that Apple had this problem with the eMac, but it's also worth noting that it has been resolved.
On a historical note, I do have to agree that Apple has had a history of problems with CRTs. Mostly with consumer grade equipment, but also some of the pro line, such as the AppleVision displays...omigod, those were horrible, and replacing the main deflection board usually took more than an hour, even for an experienced tech. Mean time between failure for those boards seemed like about three months. Yech. There were also problems with various Apple 15" CRTs, Apple 14" CRTs, the entire AppleVision line, the displays built in to the original compact B&W Macs from the 80s, and the displays built in to the all-in-one 603 based systems.
Better displays tended to be those based on early Sony Trinitron tubes, particularly 14" models, such as used in the all-in-one '030 and '040 machines, the Apple 13" RGB Display, and a few others. The 13" RGB Display, in particular, was astonishingly well built. They're fixed resolution, but I'd bet most would still work perfectly today (they were manufactured in the late 80s through early 90s). They were beautifully laid out internally, very over-engineered, and had beautiful color & overall image quality. They're also some of the few 13" displays I've seen that had degauss buttons.
Fortuntely Apple LCDs also seem very stable.
I also have to praise Apple for the design and reliability of its pro equipment, like the towers. They're very thoughfully designed, and very reliable.
I haven't, by the way, heard of a lot of network card failures in iMacs. With what model & rev have you experienced this problem?
Disclaimer: I don't have Panther yet.
I doubt they have expanded their FS support. Apple will stick with HFS+ until they develop something better, hopefully based on BeFS (since they've got some ex-BeOS people working there).
Of course, with the modular nature of xnu (the Darwin kernel) there's no reason why you couldn't port your favorite FS. You could probably pay the Rieser people to port their FS.
Also, if Apple's incorporated any of the recent changes FreeBSD's made to the UFS code they'll have Soft Update support which makes UFS fast without sacrificing the stability that it's famous for, basically removing the need for a journal. (FreeBSD 5 uses Soft Updates + background fsck to do what a journal would otherwise give you).
As for the server, I still support TONS of NT4 machines, and we are only really upgrading them as the hardware wears out or becomes dated. Our network is still about half 95/98 clients; we are also replacing them with Win2k thru attrition.
But unless your hardware compells you, their is not an application-level reason to upgrade.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
Some models were pretty reliable-I have a working 15 inch multiscan from 1994 on my desk right now.
I really doubt that a Wallstreet G3/300 is significantly different to support than a Lombard PowerBook.
They're actually quite different at the ROM level, as someone else said. As long as Apple continues to introduce new computers (including various revisions and alternate configurations) it is going to have to slowly stop supporting software Mac OS X the older ones. Otherwise, the QA process would become unmanageable.
The alternative is to go the Microsoft route, overstating the supported configurations to sell more copies, and forcing the public to do much of the QA. Apple moves the window of supported machines forward so that it can ship a solid product in a reasonable amount of time with a good experience for the consumer.
That said, there has to be a business side to this too. For years, Wall Street came down hard on Apple for supporting machines for too long, because it meant less sales. Analysts didn't like the idea of people keeping a Mac for seven years because that's an incredibly long cycle to manage. That's the reality of the stock market. I believe "Wall Street" PowerBooks are five years old, right?
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
It's not the impression I got from using it for several hours.
:) Seriously, I think you're missing the forest through the trees here. You're hyper-focused on a tiny island in a universe of what Mac OS X has to offer. It takes more than a couple of hours to realize that, though.
Wow, that is a long time.
and it would be if I wasn't constantly waiting for the spinning beach ball or for windows to resize
Panther has serious improvements for things like this.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
If you've had it since '94 it's probably a model M2943. You're lucky you haven't had problems with it. That model was notorious for a color flickering problem caused by broken solder joints on the CRT/Video board.
I wasn't too pleased with the image quality on those as a whole, but it wasn't bad (better than most consumer grade monitor of the era), and for the most part they were quite usable monitors as long as the color didn't flicker.
If it ever does start flickering, it can often be repaired by resoldering the cracked joints. It takes about an hour, and requires care to discharge the high voltage components inside the display.
CAUTION: don't work inside your monitor unless you know what you're doing and have had formal training on how not to blow yourself up on the high voltages therein.
My favorite Apple CRT is probably the Multiscan 17. It had a nice Sony Trinitron tube, excellent image quality, and was very reliable. Some of them had a bad habit of making a loud snapping sound every now and then, but that didn't affect the overall performance of the monitor.
Good show!!!
I'm sick of hearing these people spout their ignorance about Apple upgrade prices when they don't look into their own back yards first.
woulda been funnier if I'd remembered to do s/Apple/Windows/ before hitting submit......
jesus fuck, did that old troll get reposted again? when will it die?!
take ME out of the equation and it's still more expensive.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Why is Apple stuttering with its version numbering?
I "Mac OS X" is really "Mac OS Ten" rather than "Mac OS Ecks" (or "Mac OS UN*X"!), then saying "Mac OS X 10.3 Panther" makes you sound like a CB radio fan ("Transmission completed, standing by... 3 Panther" "What - you're standing by three panthers?!?! But I digress... )
Apple should already have done what Sun did with Solaris: ... 2.5, 2.6, 7, 8, ...
If Apple had called Panther "Max OS X 3" it would have made it clear that it isn't just a "bug fix" release.
Maybe next time... "Mac OS X 4 Lynx [or some other big cat]".
Looking further ahead, Apple must avoid the strange beast that is "Mac OS XI"... but then again "Mac OS [funky Greek letter]" would be cool (if difficult to post on /.)!
LOL -- sure, but they'll let you put a file called MyFile.pdf in a folder with MyFile.txt. When the Finder goes on its merry way hiding filename extensions, it looks like there are two files called MyFile distinguishable only by icon.
Frankly, I don't really think either behaviour is confusing to users.
On the other hand, I wish they'd give up on file extension lameness. MIME types, baby, MIME types.
do I need to have Jaguar while I have 10.2.8 MacOS came with my G5?
I mean will I get enough perf with this? Or e.g. same disk/gfx performance?
Real clueless here for now. No shit...
First, Apple will probably never base their machines on x86.
Secondly, even if they did switch to x86, OS X will never, never, never run on any hardware that Apple has not produced-- so surrender the fantasy of running OS X on some homebuilt shitbox. The major selling point of the Mac is the "it just works" factor-- the tight integration between Apple software and Apple hardware. They won't be able to deliver that if they suddenly have to support hundreds of varieties of commodity hardware flying out of factories in East Bumblefuck, Asia. Microsoft has blown through umpteen billion dollars over damn near twenty years in their attempt to do it, and they still haven't got it right.
Apple is a hardware company, period. Their software is just a selling point for their hardware. Look at iTunes and the iTunes Music Store as another example-- iTunes is a free download, and they barely make a profit on the sale of iTMS music. The whole thing is set up to sell iPods, and ideally induce some satisifed iPod buyers to switch to the Mac.
~Philly
Of course you do. And you check the oil in the gear box and the differential. And you check the fuel filter. And you check the brakes for wear. etcetera. But that's not the point, I suppose..
:-)
I own a classic car so I've discovered a lot of things you should check..
History matters..
The best thing about HFS+ for me is FileIDs. I don't think a single other filesystem supports them.
>80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
>life