Slashdot Mirror
X10 Files For Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection
telstar writes "As a followup to the recent Slashdot story about X10 losing a $4.3 million patent infringement suit over pop-unders, X10, the wireless camera company that 'only last year billed itself as the world's largest online advertiser', have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. This allows them to continue to operate, but they'll be shielded from creditors while they reorganize their finances - so rest easy, X10 popups are here to stay."
X10 popups have made the Web what it is today. Losing them would be like losing a part of one's body. I'm glad to hear they will still be with us.
Long live X10!
1) Spend bazillions on new web marketing campaign
2) Alienate web users with pop-unders and fake pr0n
3) ???
4) Bankrupcy!
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
popups ? what are popups ? I've never seen one with Mozilla.
Don't take a risk you can't afford to lose.
Dumbasses.
Is there any difference between X10 the advertiser and X10 the company that makes the rf receivers used by the ATI Remote Wonders?
There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
Read a report on this an hour ago. It seems that X10 has assets of $1-10M, and debts of $10-50M. The three brothers that won the settlement the other day are by far the biggest creditor, so I assume that they get first crack at any assets when X10 goes under. (My prediction there)
So they'll probably get everything that X10 has, and still be short on their settlement. Everyone else will get stiffed, punitive damages against X10 won't be assigned since there's nothing to assign them to, and because it was done under the umbrella of a corporation, the CEO and other execs will walk away with their salaries for the last several years, ready to enter another sleazy line of work.
The best thing about a corporation is that it protects individuals, encouraging risk-taking competitive capitalism. The worst thing about a corporation is that ir protects individuals, encouraging irresponsible and borderline-criminal behaviour.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
This is a complete non event for me. Who cares?
'only last year billed itself as the world's largest online advertiser'
I saw this and thought back to the mid/late '90s. Remember all of those big internet companies? The ones who survived off advertisements online? No? Me neither. I don't think I'd promote the fact my company is the world's biggest advertiser online. We've been down that road that's littered with the corpses of about a thousand defunct new e-conomy companies who either; A) Didn't turn a profit after spending huge amounts of money advertising online (as is the case here), or B) Who's sites were abandoned by said failed business plans and then folded with no positive cash flow coming in.
Just a thought.
Request: ECM unit, 1000 km fullerene cable, 1 tactical nuclear weapon. Reason: Birthday party for foreign dignitary.
It's been a long time, but I seem to recall that although declaring bankruptcy can shield you from normal creditors, it cannot shield you from legal judgements against you. Meaning that the kids who won the 4 million dollar lawsuit should still be getting their 4 million dollars.
And good.
--
RumorsDaily
What use for these cameras could they be implying by showing scantly clad women in all of their ads?!
that are rapidly becoming illegal or at the least highly regulated on the interent. Why is it legal to pop up unwanted windows under OR over the browser without the Expressed Written Concent of the END USER.
I suppose they would argue that by viewing the site said concent is implied, however its hard to know what you are signing up for when you click a link and WHAM you get attacked by unwanted windows containing advertisments, often times, inappropriate material to say the least. would be nice to see a question on the home page of these popup serving pages like: "Would you like to see our ads?"
Unrealistic, yes. but so are some of the laws being proposed that TAKE away from the user experience, and they seem to be passing through as laws easy enough.
Just Say no to pop-ups/pop-unders
Yah patents! I love my X10 home automation stuff. Its useful. But equally, I think that a new and innovative idea about opening one window *underneath* another one is worth $4.3 million. Those silly X10 people for manufacturing useful physical objects and creating manufacturing jobs should pay more attention to the much more valuable world of clever, original ideas.
If you use a Web browser made by people and not corporate drones you will never have to see another pop-up/under/over again.
If you outlaw the law, only criminals will have laws
So, someone caught X10 with their pants down, so to speak?
~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
Talk about being conflicted, I have used x10 stuff and i liked it and always thought it was cool. A fried told me about them, not some annoying online advertising. The make a useful product that works. Any number of conventional advertising scheme should have gotten them bunches of customers, but they had to go the annoying popup windows and such. Its sad really in its own way.
Surely X10 don't manage the technical side of their popup campaign, one of their creditors will be doing that. If they file for bankrupcy protection, I don't think their creditors will want to carry on providing a service which X10 won't be paying for.
pwned!!! :)
Though to be honest, I don't see that many X10 adverts any more. If anything i'd welcome them back instead of recieving the 50+ pieces of spam mail I now get every day.
*sigh*
Isn't the internet a wonderful place!
X10 made offers they never backed up - anyone remember this slashdot story? I'm still waiting for mine and that was 1999.
X10 had a niche product - home automation products. Not everyone is willing to replace plugs and switches in their home with x10 enabled smart ones.
X10 tried to appeal to rather base instinct: buy our video gear and you can make movies of naked or at least semi naked 19 year old models. The problem is most people don't have anyone that resembles a model living in their home. If anything the footage most people would secure is suitable only for America's funniest home videos...
-- $G
Now really, is there anyone who reads Slashdot that is still dealing with popups? Between builtin popup blockers in the Mozilla family, Safari, and Opera and the Google Toolbar in IE why would any self-respecting geek ever have to see an X10 ad?
Now that would be another cool pop-up. Use our handy toilet paper role holder cover to hid it in every bathroom in your office.
Come the revolution, the Bourgeois, Capitalistic, "A PARKING STICKER HOLDERS", will be first against the wall!
Has anyone actually seen an X10 ad recently? Since buying a Mac and now using Safari as my browser, I don't get any pop-ups anymore, X10 or otherwise, but I haven't seen any "regular" banner ads for them either, and I'm not blocking those.
Are they actually still advertising?
But on the other hand, now Advertisement Banners is free to license their popunder code to everyone out there. And suing X10 (and winning) has brought them tons of publicity.
Is this where I shoot myself in one foot and stab myself in the other and wait to see how long it takes me to bleed to death? If not, it kinda feels that way.
My own outlook on the whole matter is that any company that uses pop-ups as a form of advertising deserves whatever it gets. Not so much because of the fact that pop-up are wrong, but they are unpopular, and any marketing exec that hasn't worked out that getting people to hate you isn't a good way to sell products needs to go and do a refresher. The best advertising is word of mouth, if your friends recommend it then you are more likely to go there. Which is exactly how I found slashdot, the other important aspect is that slashdot has the community and the content to make people want to stay around. Essentially they are not just in it to weasel people out of their money.
Shamefull as this is - I alwats actually wanted a X10 camera to stick on my front door - no need to answer to prying relatives or debt collectors :)
Where the cameras any good?
My Portfolio
X10, the wireless camera company that 'only last year billed itself as the world's largest online advertiser', have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
That must be their new business plan:
1. Obtain protection, and change the name to X11 to 'show aprreciation' of Chapter 11
2. Sue X Consortium for trademark violation
3. Profit!
Sounds far-fetched? Well, SCO does even more fascinating stunts!
Lisp is the Tengwar of programming languages.
The reason why they were sued was because they weren't paying their advertising bill. Slashdot has been spreading this crap since yesterday.
Well it sounds like they didn't actually spend lots of money on the web advertising campaign - the lawsuit that triggered this bankruptcy was by a pop-under company suing x10 for unpaid bills (among other nonsense). In a strange way it's a karmic balance for x10 to go bankrupt depriving some pop-up "innovators" from getting their bounty.
Having said that, x10 was amazingly successful at their campaign - from a collection of fringe items by a company that no-one knew, to millions in sales and a company whose name we all know well. I also think it's a bit foolish to demonize x10- x10 didn't put ads on the sites you visit--The site put ads there (well, apart from gator but that was a prior story). If you don't like the pop-under ads at a site, blame the site itself not the people paying the bills.
I forgot all about these guys, ever since I started using das Firebird(Phoenix). Despite their stupid advertising, I always kinda wanted one of their cameras. Or more specifically a camera that did the same thing. Would be able to set up a neat webcam with it. Oh well.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
I bought some x10 stuf via a popunder.. does that make me scum for supporting them?
:P
I found the gear fairly awesome, my house is all secure, and automated.
and no, I don't work/know anybody at x10
Welcome to the End
X10 going backrupt? That's just as depressing as the eventual announcement that Darl McBride has looted the SCO accounts and fled to the Carribean.
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
(opening unrequested popup advertisements.. well, they are modification of the contents of the computer that are unauthorised, so got them there)
Not only is this an idiotic comment, unless you can cite case law to support your argument you havn't "got" anybody. I like to see you argue in front of a judge that a window being opened by a website which you just surfed to is both "unrequested" and a "modification of the contents of the computer".
I really mean that, I would love to see it. A comedy goldmine just waiting to happen.
"to prevent or hinder access to any program or data held in any computer" sounds very much like popunders to me: they are hindering you seeing the contents of the popup by placing the main window in the way.
Again, I fear you must have been dropped when young. Its the only way I can reconcile the notion that you seriously believe what you have written. A pop-under ad "hinders access to any program or data"? How so? Unless you're an idiot, you can move the top most window and..there! The pop-under can be seen. Hardly "hindered" now is it?
You are one of the biggest fools I've had the displeaser to read on Slashdot in a very long time, and I read Slashdot at -1 Nested, daily, for the past four years. You'd probably be proud of the destinction.
Just install one of the better and less crappy browsers out there, and forget IE.
I haven't seen one popup in years.
Seriously, X10 had a decent concept - build budget networks, budget devices, and sell to people who really don't need much more than that.
Their biggest problem was their promotion. By sexing their ads up, they really didn't do much for themselves. By then having said ads as extra windows - hey, that got irritating, really really fast.
This demonstrates how NOT to sell a product. You want to sell something, you make it attractive to the consumer, not so repulsive that they want to spit boiling acid at the computer screen. (Unless you're a merchant of either boiling acid, or computer screens.)
X10 have only themselves to blame for this. Very few companies, once in Ch11 ever really get out. For most, it's just a delayed death of the company. Usually because they don't actually change anything. Sure, they dump workforce, but that just makes the company top-heavy. It's not the workforce that's the problem, it's the income. There ain't any. The solution is to change what you're doing, to make some. Duh.
Sadly, this often doesn't happen, and I doubt it will in the case of X10. Anyone that persists in ads that don't work, but just infuriate, has demonstrated an inability to change a failing strategy.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Should be to focus away from "spying on women" as the ads imply, toward home and business security applications. Perhaps selling an inexpensive home security DVR that talks IP so it can be checked remotely. Maybe they'll listen to this post and we'll see scantily-clad burglars in the pop-ups?
girl is naked, take a movie
girl is looking, picture cutie
you buy thing from pop up banner
you get wallet, purchase camera
we must destroy x10, we must destroy all internet ads
we must destroy x10, we must destroy all internet ads
window pop up on the screen
taking control of my machine
making all internet user insane
x10 profit goes down the drain
girl is naked, take a movie
girl is looking, picture cutie
you buy thing from pop up banner
you get wallet, purchase camera
we must destroy x10, we must destroy all internet ads
we must destroy x10, we must destroy all internet ads
the economy failing is x10 fault
popping up window is computer assault
window popup again and again
only solution is crush x10
we must destroy x10, we must destroy all internet ads
we must destroy x10, we must destroy all internet ads
we must destroy x10, we must destroy all internet ads
we must destroy x10, we must destroy all internet ads
- Kompressor
were you expecting to see a sig here? perhaps you'd rather see the inside of an ambulance!
So that would make them X11 then?
Well, confusing. Whats more, What are these popups you speak of? Use a decent browser and you wont have them...not at all.
In all my life, I have never been happier to read a headline than right now. X10 filed for bankruptcy directly because of pop-up ads.
Today is a great day
was sent to all the employees via popups? There's irony for you or is it just cold sadism?
--
check the post directly above yours and you'll see that Mozilla's popup-blocking, among other things, is far superior to using MS IE 3rd party products that try to do the same thing. As far as Macromedia Flash goes, its usually a lame advertisement which means I don't want to see it, and also since it isn't an open Internet standard, I regard it with disgust. Everything should be free and open on the net so that everyone can access it without worrying about vendor lock-in. i.e. the macromedia flash player should compete on its own merits, not because it is the ONLY product that can play flash media files.
I can't afford a sig!
People tend to forget that X10 is a communications protocol designed to send signals over the 60Hz wave in your house's wiring. The X10 Home Solutions Company does not have exculsive rights over the X10 protocol. It's like naming a company TCP/IP. If you'd like to buy home automation devices and not support this company, a simple google search will bring up many companies. I've used SmartHome's products before and have been happy with them. Hell, even IBM got into the game for a while until that part of the business spun off into Home Director Inc.
"Sexy Man" is not a moderation option. -- arose
X10 popups are here to stay
Bah.. Google toolbar rules all.
What about before Mozilla got pop-up blocking? What browser did you use then?
Or did you only start using the web in the last couple of years?
Oh wait, it was under my router
What popups? I use mozilla. 8-)
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
Fidn the dyslexic fwibble berofe midnight!
I have been using Firebird for months and I feel fine!
And I have haven't seen a single pop-anything since I installed the Google toolbar.
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
Of course they are broke! I imagine the food and housing bill alone skyrocketed after all those hot chicks kept breaking into their living rooms, bedrooms and porches.
Luckily I have a camera to keep them away...at least I think it's the camera that does it..
The lawsuit files by the brothers against X10 had nothing to do with patents. X10 hired them to write the behind-the-scenes code to create their annoying pop-under ads and then chose not to pay them for their work. It appears they had a contract with X10 which is the main reason they won the judgement - AS THEY SHOULD HAVE! Would you like it if your employer chose not to pay you because they just didn't want to? How would you respond to that?
Step 1. Steal socks Step 3. Profit!!!! (thanks SP for the good times)
"Ain't I a stinka..." - Bugs
Wow, and I thought my checking was screwed up. Let me see... yeah, I can safely confirm that I have between $1,000 and $10,000 in my checking account right now. Sheesh
Shouldn't the icon be 'It's funny, laugh'?
Find funky gifts
This still kind of sucks. Yeah, yeah, we hated their ads, but anyone on this site should have figured out by now that almost all browsers offer pop-up blocking (IE being the sole exception that I can think of).
But what about the rest of the story? I'm going out to Radio Shack tonight to buy a bunch of X10 stuff, because it actually works. It's getting dark out in the mornings so I'm going to use their alarm clock and a plug module to turn my light on in the morning. I'll probably stock up on a couple things for future expansion. Currently I have two lamps in my living room and a coffee machine on a remote control thanks to the Slashdot X10 deal.
The other problem is that someone patented pop-under ads. This seems like yet-another-bad-software-patent, but I guess Slashdotters pick and choose which bad software patents to get upset about. If this affected Microsoft it would be a valid software patent, but if it affected Linux it would be an abomination. The ends don't justify the means and you can't root for software patents when they happen to bankrupt someone you don't like.
Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
the first X10 pop up or pop under and I can honestly say that I'm not missing them at all..
X10 has to be one of the most annoying companies around. I USED to like their products, matter of fact, I still somewhat do. But they are just jerk-offs for the way they harass and annoy people with their bullshit. Besides, I think I remember hearing that they may have been caught tracking people almost like gator, but just using cookies.
They are the squeege men of the Internet.
Oh well, they shouldn't have been such a-holes..
Christ... it was brought up how many times in yesterday's article:
THERE'S NO FREAKING PATENT ISSUE!
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
So if X10 closes it doors where can I get X10 like stuff? Is there someone else out there that offer cheap cameras like X10?
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
WAY better solution.
/. your ads are blocked too...) Oh yeah, you do have a choice to use white and black lists on the smoothwall to allow SOME ads of your chosing to come through, if you so desire or to block IP's that somehow manage to sneak one through adzapper.
Take an old PC. Install Smoothwall GPL 2.0 (router/firewall)
Then hack squid in the smoothwall and add in Adzap
I made my adzap point back to itself to retrieve the "this ad zapped" images rather than getting them from sourceforge every time, for speed, to not hammer sourceforge and to use my own custom pics. I made some very subdued pics to replace the annoying back and yellow "This ad zapped" replacements.
Anyway, since doing that, I haven't seen ad one. No flash ads, no gifs, no jpgs, no pop-ups or unders, no nasty javascripts. EVERY pc that plugs into my lan is instantly ad blocked, including total strangers that bring pc's over for repair/service. No modification is done to any other machine on the lan, smoothwall is transparently proxying port 80 and blocking ads before they ever enter my lan.
Try it, it's very, very nice... (Sorry
How could they? It's a pinko Commie program that could only go under if the programmers got kicked off their ranch commune...
Nifty little tool. Actually it's the most used piece of software on my computer[s].
Really... When I read Slashdot at -1, you're the one I see the most.
As far as hindering access to data, while the arguement that popping under is hindering is a bit pathetic, having popups (OK, if you actually use a program that still allows them to get through) DOES slow down surfing the internet considerably, especially if you're using a dial-up connection. That is clearly hindering access to the data the internet provides.
~~~~~
Pet Peeve: Perscription drug advertising to the general public.
As a followup to the recent Slashdot story about X10 losing a $4.3 million patent infringement suit over pop-unders"...
It wasn't a patent infringement suit. The brothers were suing for money owed for services rendered. The popunder technology isn't even patented, though according to the article it is proprietary.
This distinction was made many times over when the last article was posted, so I was surprised to see this misconception make it into the text of the next article...
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. -Oscar Wilde
Ain't sayin' that the truth ain't funny sometimes, but shouldn't we call it "truth" before we call it "funny"?
...it certainly appears that this whole pop-under advertising thing wasn't effective enough for X10. Maybe, with luck, other advertisers will realise this, apply it to all forms of pop-ups, and make the web friendlier and less annoying for everyone.
(No, I don't suffer from pop-ups myself... at home. When I go online on someone else's computer, though, I'm still trapped in that universe. So no replies saying I should use Mozilla or Opera (which I use) or the google toolbar, etc.)
~~~~~
Pet Peeve: Perscription drug advertising to the general public.
Just because they filed for Chapter 11 does not mean it will be granted.
If everyone would like to get your x10 camera working under linux, please help test out the driver. DPCM decompression code was added this week and we are looking for people to get back to us on the Vendor ID's and Product ID's.
http://www.emuit.com/webcam.html
..having popups..DOES slow down surfing the internet considerably, especially if you're using a dial-up connection. That is clearly hindering access to the data the internet provides.
A complete load of rubbish and simply demonstrates your poor understanding of how the internet and internet protocols work. If I ping your machine I will also create "unrequested" data to be generated by your machine. Am I hindering access to data? What about thing such as ident; if you connect to an IRC server, it may generate data you didn't explicitly request after all.
Just when I was starting to get some good footage on the nanny-cam!
Wait, so using that same logic, I shouldn't be mad at Joe's Carpet Cleaning when I get a telemarking call on their behalf. I should blame the telemarketers? Or the phone company? Well, each of them plays a part, and I will certainly not knowingly do business with any company that uses telemarketers.
You're correct to point out that the site has a healthy share of the blame, but I'll remain hacked off at X10 as well.
"Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions." -- G. K. Chesterton
Jezus, how about we pop up "Do you want this window to open? Y/N" each time? Uh oh, people will get pissed that they were even asked that question in a pop up prompt. So then we'll see a page preface every other webpage, asking "The page you are about to view will open a small window, do you want to proceed? Y/N". Oh what fun it will be to navigate the web, with everyone asking for our permission to display every GIF and piece of text.
You know, I never was asked permission to have commercials displayed in the middle of my television programs. But you know what, I can turn the damn TV off. So you don't like a pop-UNDER ad? Don't visit the site!!
From the posted information ...$4.3 million patent infringement suit over pop-under...
It was clearly established in the last discussion (as well as in the original article) that this was not a patent infringement suit but a case of a business simply not settling its advertising debt.
Did you read it?
And what is making me laugh so much is that every five minutes or so I'm getting a pop-up. Here. On /.
So much for that.
NEW! Bankruptcy special! Buy 1 X10 Super-Delux Cameramatic 5000 and get your own pop-under Javascript Code FREE!
This guy had his Christmas lights under X10 and web control - looks like he now has a Halloween Hulk Decorations & Lights that you can control. I guess he didn't buy enough X10 stuff!
It will be a shame to see this company go. Seriously. So they used pop-up and pop-under advertising -- so what? Lots of companies do. At the end of the day, they still sold home automation gear at great prices. I hooked up my entire home using their products, didn't spend a lot, and it's wonderful to use. With the X10 company gone, I will have to turn to Lutron, Smarthome, or other more expensive makers of X10 gear.
:)
Or we could all just upgrade from X10 to X11. I hear the upgrade lets you run graphical applications remotely.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
... I switched to Firebird. I'm not joking. I forgot how annoying popup ads can be because I never have to deal with them anymore.
Honk if you're horny.
Privoxy is a tiny local proxy server that is simple to get running, yet customisable for power users.
From their site:It's incredibly easy to set up; a few clicks to install, then simply set your web proxy to 127.0.0.1:8118.
Privoxy is useful for notebooks users who have setup AdZap at home but use Internet connections elsewhere, and especially great for people who simply don't have spare computers available for use as servers.
And it's available for Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, OS/2, AmigaOS...
In related news, SoBig is now touting itself as the worlds most widely used email program.
A big fan of hosts-based ad blocking - Simple ad blocking with hosts.
Ah, the joys of the percentage twenty!
less regulation, more innovation?
Download mozilla and stfu.
Im not suggesting that we start using popups to ask permission to use popups, dont be obtuse. I am suggesting that the website who is "hosting" the popups (or ANY sort of invasive advertisment) use a level of respect for the "potential customer" previously un-implemented.
This could be done by simply posting a link on the page that asks the user if he/she would like to support you by viewing the advertisments affiliated with your service or product. If the "potential customer" DOES happen to be interested in the product he is apparently seeking, he may be more inclined to view these advertisments than some one who is not likely to purchase anything in the first place. Of course this approach would not work so well in the case where your popups are totally unrelated to the product which is being offered on the website. IE: if i am looking at a website about toilet paper, i probably dont want to think about buying a car at the moment. i want to see advertisments about toilet paper. Maybe even go so far as consider other bathroom accesories such as cleaning materials or soaps.
the current business model is flawed, ineffective, antiquated, and just plain annoying to 90% (or more) of those "potential customers" you claim to "value" so much. Treat the customer with respect, dont insult peoples intelligence, and dont open browsers the customers didnt specifically ask for, and you might even start making more money.
And, to speak to your analogy of the Television Market of commercials, Popups are the equivilent of the TV program in question changing the channel to QVC. Nesting Advertisments within the page its self is the equivilent of a commercial break, and i dont mind skipping over a few advertisments to read the article so long as it doesnt interrupt the flow of my reading so much i feel like im being attacked.
As a general rule (for your marketing department) Anything that makes your "potential customer" hate you cant be good. something to think about.
MOD PARENT UP, "+5, 0WNED THE SHIT OUT OF PARENT"
Nice Job! You are a benefit to the community.
Judgements are indeed, unsecured. And secured creditors come first.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
a company whose name we all know well
Actually I didn't have any idea what all this was about until I got half way though the last slashdot story. I've been using Mozilla so long that I'm starting to feel deprived.. or not.
I remember NextCard Internet Visa, having worked for them.
Trolling around, Trolling around.....
Why not troll under a username? Given the craptacular moderation system, you should be able to get yourself up and down the Karma scale as fast as you like!
Yo: It has very little to do with how the internet/internet protocols work. It has much, much more to do with how some not-computer-literate judge feels about the situation.
No offense to British judges, but my grandfather was a British judge. They are much like American judges.
They are hardworking, intelligent people, who know very, very little about technology.
Get yourself a permanent ID, AC.
You are an amateur troll. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Go directly to slashdot hell.
P.S. I only respond to you to prevent you from harassing other, less flame hardened slashdotters.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
How ironic that the most widely advertised product on the web is going bankrupt. Has anyone considered that web users don't like to be carpet-bombed with popups?
Nooooooo....that' can't be.....
~Knautilus
since I started using Mozilla. As if there aren't enough other reasons to switch, this is a very good one.
What are those?
X10 popups are here to stay.
You must be an Internet Explorer luser aren't you?
I think I remember popups...From the late '90s, right? Wow. It's been so long since I've seen one of those that I didn't even remember what they looked like. I remember the X10, the "YOU HAVE WON 5 DOLLARS!"... You know, ever since I switched away from that one web browser...what was it called? Intranet Exprawler? I can't remember now. It's been too long. Anyway, ever since then, I haven't really had a problem with popups. In fact, since I installed that special HOSTS file that denies most major banner ad providers, I haven't really seen any...ads, was it?
I can see why X10 would be filing for bankruptcy. Poor them. Pioneers in their artform, they were...
It's been a long time.
Kompressor has succeeded!
We Must Destroy X10
What's X10? And what are these Pop-Under thingies that are mentioned. Am I missing out on part of the Internet or something. Maybe its a Microsoft thing. I use mozilla now, would I get these X10 Pop-Under things it I switched to Internet Explorer.
-JungleBoy
"You never know when some crazed rodent with cold feet might be running loose in your pants."
-Calvin
I have an ID, and it has a much lower UID than yours. I was trolling before you even registered. So much for your theory.
It has very little to do with how the internet/internet protocols work. It has much, much more to do with how some not-computer-literate judge feels about the situation.
So facts do not come into it? Yeah, whatever. You seem to believe that judges are some dodery old fools who sleep on the job and rule just to get the people out of the courtroom. You know, those technically illiterate judges who can't understand computers, modern technology, forensic science..I'm sure any judge would be charmed by you.
Frankly if any judge did rule the way you seem to believe two things would happen: 1) The rulling would be quickly overturned at appeal & 2) The judge would be roasted by the court service.
So you can blow your idiotic theories about using the CMU sledgehammer to crack a pifflingly small, legal wallnut of popups and popunders, out of your ass.
This is not helped by soi-disant "computer literacy" courses (really "illiteracy") that teach how to do silly things in word processors but don't teach anything that has to do with real computer literacy - like how to take charge of your computer.
So most users wont "Say NO!". They're too well (and willingly) brainwashed by those who want to keep them as unthinking consumers.
Why is this a better solution? I mean, couldn't you just use a hosts file on a regular proxy server to forego any "this ad zapped" sort of pictures at all?
It's been a long time.
Hey even though their advertising methods are crap they make neat toys.
I look at it from a different angle. Telemarketers are calling you uninvited and intruding on your time. When you get a pop-under, you had to manually visit the site that has the pop-unders.
Thus, if you don't want pop-unders, you should either a)not visit sites that use them or b)encourage your favorite sites to find a different economic model to generate revenue.
Most websites have to use these ads to make money in order to feed you free content. However, nobody is forcing you to surf the web, thus you are able to avoid pop-unders if you choose. On the flip side, I really have no way of avoiding telemarketers short of disconnecting my phone.
Having said that, x10 was amazingly successful at their campaign - from a collection of fringe items by a company that no-one knew, to millions in sales and a company whose name we all know well.
Mindshare doesn't stave off bankruptcy. Only profits can do that. And apparently, the millions in sales they managed to get were far from enough to qualify X10 as a success.
x10 didn't put ads on the sites you visit--The site put ads there
And surely that happened not because some overpaid x10 ad exec called the site managers up and promised large sums of money in exchange for integrating their ad calls. No, the site managers all independently came to the conclusion that whatever their target market was, what they really wanted was hidden ads for spy cameras, and sought out x10's account execs and BEGGED to make a business deal with them.
Sure you could. But it means that you have to know the host name of EVERY offensive ad server on earth to block them. And they morph daily if not hourly.
If a host name is not in the hosts file, their ad material gets through and you have to suffer another ofensive ad.
This method uses intelligent analysis to determine just exactly what is and is not an ad.
You do not have to know the name of ANY ad servers, it examines and filters content on the fly.
And it's extremely accurate. After 6 months of using this method I have NO complaints and I only ended up whitelisting two websites that I *wanted* to have ads served to me from.
Also, the hosts files requires frequent updating and it slows your machine down as it looks through the list for every connection made.
Windows 2000 machines can take 10 minutes to hash through the file, I used to fight with that problem on a win2k box, way back when. Now, no matter what machine is hooked into my lan, be a M$ box, a Linux box, Mac, etc, it gets no ad content.
X10 Files For Chapter 11
Hmm... Maybe they should change their name to X11?
(Spudley Strikes Again!)
Erm, no. The art of overlaying a signal over your home AC line in sync with the zero crossings of an AC signal actually is patented by X10. While you may see other devices out there, they are all either made by X10 and rebranded, or licensed.
X10 the company has a special AC interface box you can by that just sends and receives raw data; the purpose of purchasing this box (as it says) is so you legally license the patents.
For more information, check out the USPTO and at least patents 4200862 and 4638299.
Call me a cynic, but couldn't they just be trying to find some way out of the settlement?
E.G. to reorganize something so the folks in charge have all the real assets and someone else (e.g. investors or whoever) get screwed, instead? (Not to mention the part where they get out of paying the bills...)
Granted, I make no claims that the above is true (I simply don't know enough about the law here...) but...
...but I *would* miss the nice powerline remote control switches and all that gear. Remember those?
I couldn't care less about the cameras, thankyouverymuch.
(And I have popups turned off anyway. Go Mozilla!)
Am I the only internet user to never see an X10 ad?
If so, I'd like to thank galeon, mozilla, and mozilla firebird.
Slashdot does not have pop unders. You most likely have been infected with spywhere, such as Gator.
Spywhere = Spyware
I saw this coming. You see I have this small camera secretly installed in their CEO's office...
Well, maybe not ROCKED, per se, but they were pretty nice. On more than one occassion I've had to set up webcams for clients, and the wireless (expect for the power cord :-) X-10 cams fit the bill perfected. They were AWESOME.
:-)
I've had modules of theirs (for light switch control, etc.) for 15+ years now (originally bought at Radio Shack I think), and they still work great.
The whole pop-up ad thing, I'm sure, is "led astray by the treachery of others."
yeah, it's sad for the brothers all right. I pity them much the same way that I pity the robber who gets robbed, the door-to-door salesman whose car gets towed, and the meter maid who gets a parking violation ticket in another city.
Vaguely on-topic: does anybody know when X11 will finally die? That day will not come soon enough, my friends. Let's kill X11 next!
just like the humble blood clot... turboporsche@telus.net
The Company that goes by X10 on the internet is not the company that makes the home automation controls modules and cameras. They just sell them. If the web based X10 falls off the planet tomorrow you still will be able to get the product. All you will have to do is look for them. I you were not running Internt Exploiter you would be dealing with the pop ups.
If you don't like what I write don't be a CS and mod it down. Refute it.
Yea I can't spell. So what is your point?
After seeing a lot of complaints about popups/popunders, I couldn't help but quote Paul Graham:
"In this scenario, spam would, like OS crashes, viruses, and popups, become one of those plagues that only afflict people who don't bother to use the right software."
Hey X10, if you had never used those silly popup things I would have bought your product. (Of course if they didn't use those silly popup things then you wouldn't have to file chptr 11.....)
I will drink tonight and enjoy my victory!
M0571y H@rml355.
Granted, other browsers also have popup killers these days....
At any rate, I hope the guys who settled have a good attorney who'll see them through getting a cut of the chapter 11 payout when the hearing comes.
This sig no verb.
Good point there, and a funny way of making it. You certainly did hinder my access to what you had typed, since it took about 10 seconds for me to realize that it was an actual comment and not just gibberish, and another 15 seconds or so to remember what the decoder for that encryption format is called and run it.
Given that laws are rarely written by techies, it is quite possible that your post was illegal in some localities because you hindered my access to its contents.
October 7: X-10 loses the lawsuit. Compensatory damages are $4.3 million. The punitive damages hearing, where the huge dollar figures are likely to be determined, is to take place October 22.
October 8-20: X-10 and its lawyers think about how to generate the most sympathy for their plight -- specifically, how to make themselves sound pathetic so that the jury will keep the punitive damages figure low.
October 21: X-10 files for bankruptcy the day before the punitive damages hearing was to take place. But they don't really file for bankruptcy: As the CNet article states, "X10 filed what the bankruptcy court termed a 'deficient' filing, meaning that it lacked a statement of its financial affairs." In other words, X-10 is a privately held company, and like any private company it doesn't want to divulge its financial affairs. So it claims that it's filed for bankruptcy, getting all the PR benefit of a true filing without any of the real costs, such as having to disclose private financial affairs.
The best estimate of their debts that they can come up with is between $10 million and $50 million? They really have no idea whether they owe $10 million or $50 million??? Or maybe they just prefer not to say -- and why would you specify your debts publicly if you didn't have to?
I bet they never complete their bankruptcy filing. It seems like nothing more than a tactical maneuver to keep the overall damages low.
Yup. Now all you have to do is convince a judge of that. This exactly my point; "bending a point" for the hell of it and expecting it to stick in a court of law is a waste of time. Judges arn't as thick as some people would like to believe.
The other problem is that someone patented pop-under ads.
No, someone didn't! The lawsuit that X10 lost had nothing to do with patents, and everything to do with violating a contract. Basically, they hired some guys, then used their work but didn't pay them.
I guess Slashdotters pick and choose which bad software patents to get upset about.
Ignoring for a second the fact that this all has nothing to do with patents: so what? First of all, there's nothing that says that slashdotters all have to agree with each other. Since you (obviously) post here, that makes you a slashdotter yourself. Do you agree with everyone else that posts to slashdot? Didn't think so. Second of all, the world is not black and white. Just because I disapprove of software patents, that doesn't mean I'm not going to be happy if a particular patent happens to have a good side effect. I'm happy at the effect, not the patent itself.
The ends may not justify the means, but neither do the means justify (or condemn) the ends. Bad means leading to good ends are still bad means - and still good ends! If it were otherwise, the world might be a lot simpler. But it's not.
the settlement? File for chapter 11, loose what's there but it's way less than what's owed, start new business that just happens to start where the last one left off sans debt. Sort of like thumbing your nose at the judge.
And apparently, the millions in sales they managed to get were far from enough to qualify X10 as a success.
x10 claimed bankruptcy, with so far insufficient financial documents (probably as they hide the money) after a $4.3 court settlement. They didn't just close the doors because they ran out of money.
And surely that happened not because some overpaid x10 ad exec called the site managers up and promised large sums of money in exchange for integrating their ad calls.
Oh I have no doubt whatsoever that sites were offered money to integrate the pop-unders, however I also realistically presume that those sites are responsible adults that made a calculated decision and decided that pop-under ads were worth it. Pretending that x10 is the bad guy is just preposterous.
How exactly would your grandfather being a British judge be offensive to British judges?
Fucking Troll.
Aside from X10s ingenious marketing tactics, it appears that
Anyone remember that? There were at least 5 stories within a short period of time descring what a cool geek toy the crappy cameras are, right along with links to purchase it. Everyone was pissed. No one had any proof that
witold.org
We must Destroy X10!! We must destroy all internet ad!!!
The patents you cite (4200862 and 4638299) are not operative: interesting... but expired. Duration of a patent in the USA is 20 years from date of filing. 1977 and 1983 respectively (the patents were granted in 1980 and 1987). Unless X10 has more arrows in its quiver, its technology is in the public domain.
I just got an email from X10 asking if they can advertise on one of my sites. Even though they are still trading what are your changes of getting any money out of them?
say, FUCK our popup advertising overlords that just got a new lease on life.
Step 1: Annoy potential customers Step 2: ?????? Step 3: Bankruptcy!
-------
Support Indy Music. Buy
There arent. I dont know why the headline says there are either. Bad slashdot! Bad me for believing slashdot without checking the linked story.
The AC is probably right, though I wouldn't know for sure, since I wouldn't be getting pop-ups even if /. had/has them. Either way, if you don't have it, I would recommend getting Ad-Aware or Spybot (haven't used it personally, I hear it's better but there's more danger of messing up your system if you're not sure what you're doing). Then go download Opera or Mozilla and quit dealng with the pop-ups!
~~~~~
Pet Peeve: Perscription drug advertising to the general public.
Thanks. I didn't want to get too deep into a flame war. Unfortunately, this cowardly jerk probably won't stop... as an AC, he has nothing to lose.
~~~~~
Pet Peeve: Perscription drug advertising to the general public.
The next phrase in the comment----instead of a . , it should have been a ;
My grandfather was a British judge, and if you had asked him whether or not unwanted pop-unders were 'modification' of a user's computer, I'm sure he would have said yes.
Judges=Not generally technically literate.
Smart: Yes
Technical: No
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
Better buy now! You should see what deals they are offering (sold me) : http://www.x10.com/latestdeals.htm
Reading the news usually turns out to be quite negative about x10. Using new advertising techniques to promote a very useful product. You have to give them credit for YOU knowing about them. They are offering right now the best deals I've ever seen (sold me), better buy up now: http://www.x10.com/latestdeals.htm