The Matrix Trailers, Reloaded and Re-Encoded

dark_lotus writes "The fine folks at The Matrix website, have re-encoded all 9 trailers from the original Matrix, bumped up the resolution and uploaded them for us to enjoy, including a never before released trailer. Also included, all the missing Reloaded and Revolutions Trailers and TV Spots - all now available to download."

Comments

That's nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

I did that last night to the actual movies, which are now availiable (sic) to download from a P2P client near you.

*Spoiler warning*
The second and third movies are shit.

Re:That's nothing

[Dogtanian]

I did that last night to the actual movies, which are now availiable (sic) to download from a P2P client near you.

*Spoiler warning*
The second and third movies are shit.

Moderated -1, Troll?! Who was the humorless geek who moderated this down? It's funny, dammit... even the second bit.

More importantly, it seems every post in this thread that dares criticise the Matrix sequels is getting marked down, troll or not.

The third Matrix movie sucked (not the second IMHO)- you're entitled to disagree, but it's what a lot of people honestly think, like it or not.

Re:That's nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

If I had mod point I'd mod you down for saying that! ;-)

Re:That's nothing

[nehril]

2 and 3 were actually good stories told poorly. They were pretty deep and all the nonsense dialog actually DOES make sense once you see all three and spend some time thinking about it.

there are some quite brilliant concepts in there that are unfortunately told by the worst possible storytelling (in stark contrast to the first, where the storytelling was so excellent that everything is understood right away).

you have to really think about what is happening, have a little bit of grounding in physics/philosophy, AND keep in mind that there are no truly wasted scenes (yes, the train station scene was NOT wasted. think about what you learned in it.)

Re:That's nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

> not the second IMHO

I saw this film on my second day in the States. Where better to see a Matrix film in the cinema. But I just couldn't take all the pseudo-new age nonsense. I think if you don't have a clue about tech and physics etc then it's probably awe inspiring, but you do it's sort of like playing Bullshit Bingo (look it up) during a boring meeting.

Re:That's nothing

[funwithstuff]

Well, I liked most of #2 - the action and effects scenes were great, but everything outside of the matrix lagged badly. Same lag problem for #3, and since it's set mostly outside of the matrix, it stank. What I want to do is get hold of both on DVD and re-edit them into one good film. There should be just about enough.

The plan: nuke Zion entirely from both films. Leave enough of the on-board ship footage to make sense. Kill the worst of the bad acting/dialogue. Distribute instructions with Final Cut Pro project files for anyone with the program and the discs to regenerate the new edit. Enjoy if possible.

Re:That's nothing

[gavri]

you have to really think about what is happening, have a little bit of grounding in physics/philosophy, AND keep in mind that there are no truly wasted scenes (yes, the train station scene was NOT wasted. think about what you learned in it.)

So Tell Us

Re:That's nothing

[sootman]

Couldn't agree more. Seeing the trailer, with bits from all 3 movies, reminded me how good the first was and how crappy the second two were. True, the first was also new & exciting, but Die Hard 2 was a better sequel than Reloaded. Only T3 kept Revolutions from being the biggest letdown of the year.

Re:That's nothing

[el-spectre]

When I first saw it, I thought the second one was pretty good. Part of this was the distinct feeling that we were building up to the answers to some BIG issues in the third movie. When the 3rd kinda wussed out, I think it tainted the second movie for a lot of fans.

Re:That's nothing

[vbrtrmn]

There will be a new ending too, with smart computers, which would wait for Neo to kill Smith, THEN wipe out Zion.

Re:That's nothing

[Mr. Bad Example]

(yes, the train station scene was NOT wasted. think about what you learned in it.)

I learned that boredom is a palpable force, and that it delights in squatting on my chest, slapping me and screaming "Gimme your lunch money!" and "Who's my bitch? WHO'S MY BITCH?"

Re:That's nothing

[HeghmoH]

No, sorry, there may be small bits of philosophy in The Matrix which are interesting, but none of it is new, and most of it is just boring rehash thrown together without a lot of thought.

All of that silly stuff about what's real and what's not has been done better, both in fiction and nonfiction, for a long time. The Matrix just put a lot of guns and special effects around it so that people who don't normally read these kinds of things get sucked in, and the leave having discovered an entire new world. Unfortunately, they think that because the world is new to them, it must be new to everybody.

The Matrix was an excellent movie. Its sequels were total crap. The original Matrix was good because of its story and execution, not its philosophy. The other were not good stories told poorly, they were poorly-made stories told poorly.

If you want great action sequences and an interesting story, watch The Matrix. If you want to shake your head in sorrow at lost potential, watch the sequels. If you want fascinating philosophical questions in an interesting SF setting, read Philip K. Dick.

Re:That's nothing

[fbg111]

people who don't normally read these kinds of things get sucked in, and the leave having discovered an entire new world. Unfortunately, they think that because the world is new to them, it must be new to everybody.

If it achieved exactly that and nothing more, then it accomplished a worthy mission. Do you have any idea how many Americans (at least) there are that read and have an understanding of philosophy, even as presented in the Matrix? That's right, about a relative handful. If this movie did anything to improve that number, then I say bravo!

On a side note, it seems a lot of people criticize these movies for being redundant in their investigation of our perception of reality. Yes, perhaps it has been done before, but I think the Wachowski's deserve credit for their chosen method of doing so. The concept of the Matrix turned out to be a perfect way of showing (not telling, as my high-school lit teacher admonished us) that our "interface" with reality consists of a nervous system based on electrical impulses, and can conceivably be manipulated, or hacked if you will.

Further, what was more interesting to me was the conflict of determinism vs. choice, or materialism vs. idealism. That also happened to be the underlying conflict of the Cold War, for anyone who knows anything about Marxism, Soviet Communism, and the Enlightenment ideals of America and the West. I found it most enjoyable to see that conflict played out in the setting of the Matrix: man vs. machine; absolute determinism vs. absolute free will. Since Reloaded and Revolutions dealt more with that conflict, while The Matrix dealt mostly with the nature of reality, I enjoyed the second two movies just as much, and more in Reloaded's case, than the first.

Re:That's nothing

[Slarty]

That's kinda funny, I thought had become pretty accepted now that the original rocked and the sequels sucked. Although you're right, Revolutions was (aside from a few cool sequences) much more of a let-down than Reloaded was. And Reloaded was... well, it wasn't a bad movie, but it was so vastly far outside the scope of the original movie that I think people were a bit shocked. It's kind of like comparing LOTR to The Hobbit... same world, waaaaaaay larger scope. Although LOTR worked, Revolutions mostly didn't.

Anyway... is anyone else noticing that the newly re-encoded trailers are a bit disappointing in terms of quality? I've watched a couple of the quicktime ones, and the quality is more like decently captured NTSC than anything else. When I saw "bumped up resolution" I was hoping for the 1000x540 pixels that the Reloaded trailer was released in, with the same frickin' amazing quality. Now THAT was a trailer. Anyone got that lying around? (trailer_final_1000_dl.zip) I don't anymore, and I'd love to have a copy!

Little late...

[(trb001)]

Doesn't this lose a little meaning when not only have the movies come out, but 2/3 of them are on DVD?

--trb

Re:Little late...

[big_groo]

Seems to me that a box set is on the way...

Re:Little late...

[gustgr]

A lot of people like to collect good encoded videos on their PC [I am one of them]. It is nice to collect and it is cheaper than buying DVDs, at least in contries under development like mine [Brazil] where DVDs [Region 4] takes several months to get on retail and are very expensives.

Re:Little late...

[GoofyBoy]

>A lot of people like to collect good encoded videos on their PC

I would say more than just alot.

Re:Little late...

[Anonymous Coward]

>A lot of people like to collect good encoded videos on their PC [I am one of
>them]. It is nice to collect and it is cheaper than buying DVD

These are the trailers, not the DVDs themselves. Why would you want to watch a trailer? Some people!

> at least in contries under development like mine [Brazil]

Lets just call it `undeveloped`, ok?

Re:Little late...

[nSignIfikaNt]

I think it loses meaning due to the fact that 2/3 of the movies stink.

Re:Little late...

[SeXy_Red]

Not only that, but there in quicktime, couldnt they find a better encoding method?

Re:Little late...

[vbrtrmn]

Worse boxed set ever!

Re:Little late...

[Pope]

Because, of course, you are unable to rent them when they are released in Brazil... :)

I stick to TV shows from other lands, rather than movies.

Re:Little late...

[Anonymous Coward]

RTFM... Quicktime is a container format, NOT a codec. If you have a gripe, send it to these guys...

Re:Little late...

[fleener]

It's just Hollywood trolling. Corporate whores want to suck every last dollar our of a sucky trilogy.

Move on. There's nothing to see here folks.

Re:Little late...

[Anonymous Coward]

alot

I think we've discovered how to know who is, and who is not, a native English speaker.

Re:Little late...

[thatnerdguy]

But I would still buy it, along with many of you, I bet.

Re:Little late...

[senor_burt]

You can always buy a North American DVD player, use one of these hacks, and order your DVDs via Amazon...

Then again, there's always Bit Torrent.

Re:Little late...

[Anonymous Coward]

completely OT but I would venture to say that, given the grievous state of US education, native speakers are more prone to say "alot" than folks who learn English in lands distant...

Won't last for long

[dicepackage]

This site is about to be brought to its knees

Re:Won't last for long

[Pingular]

This site is about to be brought to its knees
No. Even when the superbowl trailer was released the site didn't even slow down. I downloaded the whole trailer at 200kb/s.
They're on the AOL pipes

Re:Won't last for long

[ejito]

Uhm, their server handled trailer downloads and hits during Super Bowl.
They've transferred more information than you'd be able to download in several life times, all within a day.
I don't remember how much exactly, just know it was in a huge amount of terabytes -- their archive page is messed up where they first stated their bandwidth usage.

Re:Won't last for long

[ejito]

No. Even when the superbowl trailer was released the site didn't even slow down. I downloaded the whole trailer at 200kb/s. They're on the AOL pipes

Ah, mentioning AOL doesn't help your argument ;/

Re:Won't last for long

[Anonymous Coward]

does that mean they have more bandwidth than god^H^H^Hkernel.org?

Re:Won't last for long

[cyt0plas]

Well, they have a ton of bandwidth - what else are they going to do with it? Give it to their users? Ha.

Re:Won't last for long

[senor_burt]

You can always go here to see the trailers.

Re:Won't last for long

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

I signed up for 2mbit/356kbit AOL/TW RoadRunner for about $50/mo. A few months ago, they upped it to 3mbit/356kbit for about $50/mo. They have ~5gbit in austin.rr.com alone, for the record.

Re:Won't last for long

[rtaylor]

I think the point was that nobody from AOL can actually dial into the system, so AOL pipes are normally fairly empty.

Re:Won't last for long

[Anonymous Coward]

ARE YOU EVER GOING TO STOP SUCKING YOUR CRACKWHORE MOTHER'S TRANNY COCK???

*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_
g_______________________________________________g_ _
o_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______o_ _
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_ _
t|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____t_ _
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_ _
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
g____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____g_ _
o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o_ _
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_ _
t_______/\_|___C_____)/______\_(_____>__|_/_____t_ _
s______/_/\|___C_____)_______|__(___>___/__\____s_ _
e_____|___(____C_____)\______/__//__/_/_____\___e_ _
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_ _
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_ _
g____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_g_ _
o___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_o_ _
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_ _
t___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|t_ _
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_ _
e__|_________/_/________|____|_______|_________|e_ _
x__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|x_ _
*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Whoever did it

[Lord_Dweomer]

Whoever hit them with the clue-bat, THANK YOU! Even though they're not making money (directly) off the release of these high quality trailers, it is at least a generous offer to fans/collectors. I can't count how many companies have stuff like this sitting around and decide "oh hey, if we put it on a a Super Extended Platinum Edition dvd, they'll buy the whole thing over again!"

Thank you for actually doing something nice for fans for once Hollywood.

Re:Whoever did it

[TopShelf]

That's an excellent point - at first, I didn't see this as a big deal, but you're right that this sort of material usually ends up as DVD filler anyway. You're starting to see studios take a more enlightened attitude towards using the internet as a medium for engaging fans (i.e. the LotR films' cooperation with fan sites), which is a very good thing...

Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you download all of the trailers, when you can simply purchase the movies, barring the latest? Is this a recent fad, hoarding "previews"?

Re:Why?

[Morgahastu]

Because the trailers were better than the actual movie.

Re:Why?

[the web]

Because "TRAILER" means after the movie.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they had it on hand and they thought it would be a fun addition to the web site. They are probably "that's coool" geeks like us too.

Re:Why?

[musikit]

Because "TRAILER" means after the movie.

ohh how i wish this were true. then maybe when it says the movie starts at 5:30 i know i should actually try to get there on time. in my theater they started RotK 20 minutes late with more commercials and trailers then ever. actually let me restate that. the listed time was 5:30. previews/trailers/commercials all started at 5:50. if i wanted commercials i'd watch TV.

Re:Why?

[the web]

While I was mearly making a joke, this has long been a concern of mine. How socially sensative I may or may not be notwithstanding, it fringes on false advertising, they should give you the movie start time, not the preview start time.

In fact, I came across a petition once (petitiononline.com maybe?) that called for presicely this. I signed it.

Re:Why?

[Zoshnell]

I hate the crap commercials, but I live for trailers(or after commercial trailers, or what have you.) Its all the Movie Theater ID and Newspaper crap that gets me.

Re:Why?

[proj_2501]

in france they have two times listed for movies.

the first is "seance" which is when the commercials start, then usually it says how long the commercials/previews will last.

it's not so bad in france because the commercials usually have naked women in them. huzzah!

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this comment redundant when it was post 6 minutes after the article? Every other comment like this is redundant, this was the first one.

Moderators should have to take a C.A.T. test. If you can't spell cat, you can't moderate.

Re:Why?

[Chibi]

Why would you download all of the trailers, when you can simply purchase the movies, barring the latest? Is this a recent fad, hoarding "previews"?

Well, I keep a few trailers on my computer at work. Just to play when I'm bored or going out of my mind because of work (did I just repeat myself there? ;).

My work computer doesn't have a DVD-ROM drive, and I don't have a portable player. Not to mention, I'd rather not carry my DVDs all over the place, lest they get damaged or stolen.

Yeah, it's not a huge deal, but, then again, we're talking about movie trailers, so none of this topic is really a big deal. :)

Re:Why?

[Golias]

I have a very simple system for dealing with this.

1. Look at the running time the theater lists.

2. Go to IMDB and find out the running time of the actual movie.

If the difference between the two is about 20 minutes or more, you are dealing with one of those theaters which bundles a package of commercials before the film. Don't go to that theater, and send the management a note explaining why you will allow other theaters to meet your overpriced popcorn needs.

I've had very little trouble finding theaters around the Twin Cities who do not waste my time with Coke and Fandango commercials, getting right to the movie after two or three previews. They have my business, while the ad whores don't.

Re:Why?

[Scorchmon]

In the first movie's theatrical trailer, there's that great chorus track going throughout most of it. The only hint of it being in the full movie is during the main menu on the DVD, and there it's only 1/4 of as much of what's in the trailer. That coupled with the quick pacing of the trailer does an awesome job of reminding anyone how awesome The Matrix was without having to watch the whole thing. It gets me all warm and fuzzy inside because it perfectly reminds me of the excitement and wonder of discovering The Matrix for the first time.

Re:Why?

[FrostedWheat]

Why would you download all of the trailers, when you can simply purchase the movies

The trailers where arguably better than the movies :)

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

The trailers where arguably better than the movies :)

It is spelled "were" if you wanna know. Learn to spell kthx

Re:Why?

[cloudmaster]

Yeah, but without that stunt man explaning how he's involved in films because of cold, hard cash (certainly not because he loves what he does, 'cause money's his only argument), you learn a valuable lesson. Namely, that it's possible to download movies from the internet and put stuntmen out of a job.

I would have never downloaded a movie (that takes forever - it's a lot of data, damn it), but by golly, I'm gonna pull one or two down now just because it pisses me off to have *paid* to see that commercial. :)

Re:Why?

[FrostedWheat]

Learn to spell kthx

k.t.h.x.

Do I get a cookie?

Re:Why?

[the web]

I have an even bigger problem with Poster Boy StuntMan, here in Canada anyways. Downloading is legal. Sharing and uploading is illegal. This advertisement (warning) does not reflect the rights of Canadians. They shouldn't show them on Canadian screens.

Alternatively, there is a series of Music downloading ads in Canada that do reflect the rights of Canadians. They focus on sanctioned download services to be safer for your computer and more reliable and trustworthy. But they do not once say that downloading is illegal.

Re:Why?

[YOU LIKEWISE FAIL IT]

In the first movie's theatrical trailer, there's that great chorus track going throughout most of it. The only hint of it being in the full movie is during the main menu on the DVD, and there it's only 1/4 of as much of what's in the trailer.

If I remember this correctly ( it's been a long time since someone borrowed my Matrix 1 DVD and didn't bring it back... ) this song is The Eyes of Truth, by Enigma. It's on the soundtrack CD. Confirming, you can see complete music listings for all the trailers / movies / etc, at matrixbeats.

YLFI

Re:Why?

[YOU LIKEWISE FAIL IT]

It's on the soundtrack CD.

Bleah, no it's not, sorry.

YLFI

Re:Why?

[Scorchmon]

Thanks for letting me know the name of it though.

Horse & Gate & Bolted

[Pond823]

Erm, you know you can get the actual films on DVD don't you?

Why?

[princewally]

What, exactly, is the point of releasing a never-been-seen trailer after the final move is out? Especially when the first two are on dvd and the third is not in the theatre anymore?

Hmmmm.... Nice.

[ejito]

Wow, that never released trailer is quite stylish. Wonder why it wasn't released? Well, I guess it does seem to give away a lot of the action. The final trailers for Revolutions pretty much gave away everything, though. So, meh.

What's the point ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have I missed something ?

I mean, what's the bloody point of creating a new trailer for a film that's long been released ?

Surely the point of a trailer is to advertise the film ?

What a complete waste of time. Of course, there will still be some sad geeks that just have to download it and go 'oooo' and 'wow !!', and 'look at that !' for reasons best known to them and their damp tissues.

Re:What's the point ?

[Anonymous Coward]

They are releasing a trailer that was already made. They didn't make one after the fact.

Re:What's the point ?

[The Dobber]

I mean, what's the bloody point of creating a new trailer for a film that's long been released ?


Some people believe that if you beat it long enough, the dead horse will respond.

Re:What's the point ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry - I stand corrected, but even so...

Re:What's the point ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do starting to smell or breaking into pieces count as valid responses?

Re:What's the point ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, this particular dead horse is dead, chopped up into dogfood and the bits that were left have been turned into glue.

And given the source material, the glue probably wouldn't even stick 2 pieces of velcro together.

Re:What's the point ?

[smegball]

The Matrix is like so November 2003...

Anyways, who wants to see a trailer of the most disappointing movie sequels of 2003? If I wanted to commit suicide, why wouldn't I just go and watch SW eps 1 & 2 again (obviously except for Yoda's fight seen, which was cool and exciting :)

Theatrical Trailer/Broken Link

[Veovis]

The "Theatrical Trailer" download links to the Superbowl trailer, to get the CORRECT file for Theatrical Trailer the link is

http://progressive.warnerbros.com/thematrix/us/med /matrix_tr_theatrical_640_dl.zip

Re-Encoded...

[LordYUK]

Did they re-encode them not to suck?

Revolutions was a trite piece of trash not worthy of the 8.50 I spent on tickets...

I liked number 1... I liked number 2...

number 3... gawd... horrible...

Re:Re-Encoded...

[lemonjus]

I liked number 1... I liked number 2...

Me too. I felt that the 3rd one was released just to get more money from people. Not that geting money is bad, but how low can you go ? It seems like the creators of the movie didn't care at all how the movie would look like.

Re:Re-Encoded...

[Trurl's Machine]

It seems like the creators of the movie didn't care at all how the movie would look like.

They really had other things to worry about. I guess that explains everything, especially the dialogue and plot, obviously written in a hurry by someone completely absent-minded and concentrated on something else.

Re:Re-Encoded...

[Anonymous Coward]

Um...the third one was made the same time as the second one...how could it be just an after thought?

Re:Re-Encoded...

[Anonymous Coward]

I liked number 1... I liked number 2...

Me too. But I usually like them in combination.

Sure, they make pretty good trailers

[Dr. Spork]

Now if only those people would learn how to make a good movie!

unreleased trailer

[Lord_Dweomer]

I hear in the unreleased trailer, Triniti's nipple pops out while she's in bullet time!

............crap....why did my download just die?

Re:unreleased trailer

[Chapium]

So, the inspiration for a Matrix themed porno begins...

Just makes me think

[OgreChow]

After watching the trailers for the original, having not seen the first movie for a couple of years now, it set me to thinking. Imagine how much cooler the final two movies would have been if Neo had started the revolution of the Matrix from the inside, instead of from the outside.

Converting people on the inside, gaining an army of followers battling the system.

Re:Just makes me think

[cgenman]

Technically, Neo didn't start the revolution from the outside... He didn't start any revolution. To most people in the film, he was just a guy with nifty powers, who didn't show up for the final act. Seeing as how he died before he could tell anyone what he was doing, they probably thought he was full of hot air. Maybe Morpheous' prophecy of the joining of humans and machines will convince people that Neo is responsible. Maybe not.

Personally, I wanted to watch the machines destroy the giant matrix server in order to get rid of Neo, with Neo flipping through subsystems trying to avoid the path of destruction. Of course, I also wanted the producers to ignore the whole flying at the end of the first movie thing, claiming metaphoric license, and I wanted the second movie to, you know, advance the plot.

I guess like the unofficial Star Wars prequels, a fan's work is never done.

Re:Just makes me think

[the Man in Black]

had started the revolution of the Matrix from the inside, instead of from the outside.

Converting people on the inside, gaining an army of followers battling the system.

Which is exactly what Smith did. Makes you think about the convo between Neo and the Oracle:

Neo: What is he?
Oracle: He's you.

I think once all three are out, and can be watched back to back, there will be a better appreciation for the series. I recently re-watched Revolutions (in IMAX! Woo hoo!) and picked up on a lot of things that I missed the first time. Same goes with repeat viewings of Reloaded.

I think people just wanted a slam-bang action movie with guns and martial arts and cool effects (like the first). Though, knowing the /. crowd, had it been that all we'd be talking about is how 'trite' it was and how they 'basically remade the first movie' and blah blah blah.

Re:Just makes me think

[Jugalator]

I think people just wanted a slam-bang action movie with guns and martial arts and cool effects (like the first)

Actually, this is exactly what I didn't think the first movie was (there was a great deal of philosophical questions raised), and also the reason why I rated it 9 of 10 at IMDb. I found it to be a spectacular combination of ground breaking special effects nicely combined with an unusally "deep" movie. Matrix Revolutions on the other hand... Main characters gone in the major part of the movie, most of the movie taking place in the same location where everyone does the same things (kill robots), and a regular battle between Agent Smith to finish everything where the directors take Matrixesque effects to the limit, and beyond.

Re:Just makes me think

[east coast]

"I think people just wanted a slam-bang action movie with guns and martial arts and cool effects"

No, people wanted something better. That's why Reloaded started off with some acceptance (at the box office) but Revolutions never made it off the ground.

I know a number of ex-Matrix fans and what lost them was the endless action with no story line. Eye candy can only take a film so far and it won't take a sequal any further.

The days of films selling on special effects alone are pretty much over. (Thank God)

Re:WARNING! LINK REDIRECTS TO GOASTE.CX! MOD DOWN!

[Veovis]

*sigh*

considering the post shows the actual domain in [brackets.com], you'll see there is no goaste.cx or whatever the site is

Are you kidding?

[*weasel]

they're in CYA mode trying to 'reload' any interest in their franchise while they try to cobble together the Revolutions dvd.

the interest in their films fell way off, and so they're trying to generate some positive press and keep the core fanbase interested.

This is anything but selfless. They still have a dvd to sell that, judging by the attendance, not so many people care to buy at the moment.

Re:Are you kidding?

[Dogtanian]

They still have a dvd to sell that, judging by the attendance, not so many people care to buy at the moment.

True, but anyone who cares enough about this to download the trailers will already have Reloaded on DVD and will have seen Revolutions.

I honestly don't think it'll make that much difference to DVD sales for the hardcore fans.

Re:Are you kidding?

[Anonymous Coward]

i think the point was that releasing these trailers shows even their ardent fans are disenchanted. it isn't about selling the dvd to you and me, it's about keeping fans from becoming former fans.

Re:Are you kidding?

[Lord_Dweomer]

"they're in CYA mode trying to 'reload' any interest in their franchise while they try to cobble together the Revolutions dvd. the interest in their films fell way off, and so they're trying to generate some positive press and keep the core fanbase interested. This is anything but selfless. They still have a dvd to sell that, judging by the attendance, not so many people care to buy at the moment."

This is a very valid point, but realize that this kind of stuff would normally end up as Extras on the upcoming DVD. I never doubted that this is advertising and a blatant attempt to build up some hype, but I credit them with the fact that they are giving it away for free as opposed to having the balls to try to charge for it like everybody else has been doing.

Re:Are you kidding?

[Golias]

Movie trailers are advertisements. If you like getting ads for free, just post your raw e-mail address on this site and a few others, and you will soon get plenty of them.

Re:Are you kidding?

[Lord_Dweomer]

"Movie trailers are advertisements. If you like getting ads for free, just post your raw e-mail address on this site and a few others, and you will soon get plenty of them."

Thank you for the ever so insightful post. Could you please explain (and quote) where I said that movie trailers WEREN'T advertisements? In fact, in my parent post I said that I never doubted what they were. I was merely glad they are doing it free of charge as opposed to some other studios which have thrown them on a special edition DVD and charged you for the pleasure of viewing them.

Re:Are you kidding?

[east coast]

"I honestly don't think it'll make that much difference to DVD sales for the hardcore fans."

If Hollywood made a mjority of it's cash from 'hardcore fans' of any film it would neither need to advertise nor would it have the cash to continue to make the crap-fest style films it has recently. It's looking for the fence sitters to give them a good push. The Internet is just a cheap way to do it...

Besides, the internet is where all the rad kids hang out now of days...

Re:Are you kidding?

[Dogtanian]

It's looking for the fence sitters to give them a good push.

That would make sense, except I don't see a fence-sitter really being bothered about downloading trailers to films that are already on DVD.

Torrents?

[Seek_1]

If anyone is able to grab them and start a Torrent, I'd be more than happy to join up..

Reloaded and Revolution sucked because ...

[Rupertx]

they lost the ability to suspend the audiences disbelief. The story line was to complicated and convoluted that even the people that understood the story where lost the ability to believe the story. To many random characters and to much crappy story line.

Re:Reloaded and Revolution sucked because ...

[cerenyx]

I concur; that's actually a pretty accurate and concise reason for why the Matrix trilogy was a flop.

Just Watch the Trailers

[superdan2k]

You can get the entire plot of the movie with all the deep thoughts and ambiguity by watching the short trailers as opposed to sitting through the whole movie where everything gets ruined by the script.

And suckage is easier to deal with in small doses.

Peter Jackson - learn from this

[Zog The Undeniable]

Come on, put the "extended" stuff from RoTK up for download when the cinematic DVD comes out. You can include a special password with the cinematic DVD if you like.

People will still buy your extended DVD if they want it all on one disc (not forgetting the high quality plastic Denethor figurine in the Collectors' Edition), but they won't be forced to pay $$$ for something they only want to see half an hour of.

Re:Peter Jackson - learn from this

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, but you get a nice $5 off if you buy both editions of TTT.

Really, how many times did you watch the cinematic TTT? Wouldn't you have been better off renting it, knowing that the extended release was coming?

Sheesh.

Re:Peter Jackson - learn from this

[HeghmoH]

If you can resist your affection for shiny things for a few months, you can simply forgo buying the cinematic release and go straight to buying the extended version. No wasted money, everything's right there, everything's good.

Re:Peter Jackson - learn from this

[east coast]

"they won't be forced to pay $$$ for something they only want to see half an hour of."

The difference is that Peter Jackson has a product people are willing to pay to see. Matrix Revolutions hardly fits into that catagory. They need to do anything they can to salvage some money from this black hole and getting people excited with cheap advertisement is a good way to do it.

Oh, and the other difference is that Jackson (more to the point; JRRT) had a good story. Tolkien wouldn't have sold many books if he had a 45 page discription of a battle between the fellowship and a cave troll.

The point ?

[nsebban]

Sorry but what's the point of having near-DVD quality trailers, months after the realease of the entire movies ? (2 DVDs are available and the 3rd should soon be) You must be the kind of guy that can't wait anymore for the Fellowship of the ring trailer to be out :)

who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

nobody

Bandwidth

[NiTr|c]

Is everyone still asleep? For some reason I'm actually able to see the page and download the trailer at higher than 500 bytes per second. Something is wrong, very very wrong.

Re:Bandwidth

[Anonymous Coward]

>For some reason I'm actually able to see the page and download the trailer at higher than 500 bytes per second.
>Something is wrong, very very wrong.

Yes, yes it is.
We all saw the movie and it sucked.

Re:Bandwidth

[Squidgee]

And that has to be the most insightful comment I've seen on this whole thread...

Matrix Revolutions according to Jon Stewart

[Isca]

It Bloooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwsssss

I swear, the slamming he gave it the day after Revolutions came out has to be one of the funniest daily shows lines this year. He kept harping on it for the rest of that week. Everytime me or my wife hear someone mention the matrix, we both end up looking at each other and saying "It Bloooooooowwws" for giggles.

-chris

Re:Matrix Revolutions according to Jon Stewart

[Bizzarobot]

...and thus making guest Will Ferrel's "Elf" the number one movie that weekend. Perhaps Stewart should come up with a suck-scale in which movies can be judged outside of their weekend dollar haul.

Re:Matrix Revolutions according to Jon Stewart

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like you have a really special relationship with your wife.

NOT!

Re:who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

I second that.

There is simply nothing to care about. I mean, after I pick up my copy or Matrix I on the cheap from the second hand store, thats it, nothing more. The two sequals totally cheapened the the series and, unless I just forget about them, they'll ruin the fantastic first film as well.

Re:Now that I've seen RotK,

[Kredal]

Star Wars had good sequels... the prequels suck though.

Doesn't work

[TrekkieGod]

You can't "convert" people on the inside. Until they are freed, agents are able to take over their body. It's why, in the first movie, Switch holds a gun to Neo during the entire time they're driving to see Morpheus. It's the reason for the "lady in red" training. It's the reason why, when Neo was running from Smith at the end of the first movie, and he ran into this really crowded place, he uttered "shit".

Now, sure...you can free a whole bunch of people (which Neo did...Morpheus mentions in reloaded more people had been freed in the past 6 months then had been in the past 6 years). Then you could send them all into the matrix to fight...what? The rest of the humans still plugged in? The very people you're trying to save? Heck, you'd need way too many hovercrafts to get these people up to broadcast depth, all to do something Neo can do on his own. Inside the matrix, he rules. If he can't handle something, no amount of "normal" people can. The only thing Neo was incapable of handling on a pure fight was Smith, and Smith has shown his ability to copy himself even into people that have been freed from the matrix (ie, Bane).

But yeah...I know what you mean. It would be much cooler to have a whole bunch of really good fight scenes inside the matrix than the whole boring Zion fight. Then again, I know a whole bunch of other people who think the exact opposite, were really tired of the wire-fu, and really liked the Zion battle.

I could live either way. All I needed was an explanation of what the heck happened. In an all-fantasy story like Lord of the Rings, anything goes...it's fantasy. With the matrix, the first matrix set the boundaries--the reason Neo can do all those things is because he's inside a computer program, and he can change the program somehow. Then, with Revolutions they pulled the whole "the power of the one extends beyond this world" thing. Why? The power of the one was changing the code of the matrix, what other power does he have that allows him to do things outside the matrix? Really, I wouldn't care how they approached the revolution, I just wanted a coherent storyline.

Re:Doesn't work

[OgreChow]

And what if he took control of the mass media?

I believe we can draw a direct parallel to our society, and ask "why can't we change this from the inside?"

We need only speak to the masses.

Re:Doesn't work

[jpkunst]

The power of the one was changing the code of the matrix, what other power does he have that allows him to do things outside the matrix?

You may have noticed that the special powers which Neo has outside the Matrix only work on things from the machine world (ability to stop sentinels, ability to 'see' machines/programs (e.g. Smith) while blind). The explanation must be that Neo has some kind of 'wireless connection' to the Matrix, which allows him to communicate with the Matrix without being plugged in. No magic needed, and the coherence of the storyline is preserved.

JP

Re:Doesn't work

[luigi22_]

"Until they are freed, agents are able to take over their body. It's why, in the first movie, Switch holds a gun to Neo during the entire time they're driving to see Morpheus."

Makes you wonder, why didn't Neo turn into an agent? How could anyone be freed if agents can just take the m over?

Here's the Torrent - http://www.filerush.com/torre

[AIX-Hood]

http://www.filerush.com/torrents/9_matrix_trailers .zip.torrent

Re:Now that I've seen RotK,

[BladesP9]

Oh - don't get me wrong - I thought the sequels (Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi) were good.. but Return of the King is..... just.... omg.... really, really good :)

Sky Captain Torrent also

[AIX-Hood]

I apologize if this is off topic, but you guys would probably also be interested in the new Sky Captain trailer which is very 50's genre alien movie... http://www.filerush.com/torrents/sky_captain-tsr_m 480.mov.torrent

Problem with the 2nd and 3rd movies

[Anonymous Coward]

The first movie set the foundation. Freeing people from the Matrix.

The second and third movies were about Zion. They moved away from the story arch they originally set forth.

Imagine if Star Wars became less about getting rid of the Emperor and more about saving the rebel home base. With long discourses about determinism and free will.

uh....

[caomania]

slow news day

Re:WARNING! LINK REDIRECTS TO GOASTE.CX! MOD DOWN!

[freeweed]

Yeah, because we know there's no way around that [domain] protection.

By the way, anyone know the URL for Yahoo or Amazon? :)

Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Effugas]

So it's kind of interesting.

As of late, there's been a resurgence in so-called "franchise" movies, where the funding for and expectation of a sequel is a foregone conclusion during the production process. Recently, we've seen three variants of this:

A) Lord Of The Rings, which filmed all three episodes in one monster shoot, then spent a year between each tweaking for maximum quality.

B) The Matrix Trilogy, which filmed the second and third episode in a less-monstrous shoot, and originally planned to unveil the conclusion a mere three months after the return. Tweaking was not originally planned for.

C) Harry Potter, which does not appear to begin production of the next chapter until the previous movie has finished its theatrical run.

Given these three case studies, it's worth noting that two of them (LOTR and HP) have their plotlines and characters fully fleshed out from day one, far in advance of movie production. Meanwhile, The Matrix sequels were written in response to the success of the original, meaning the third one got a screenplay before the second saw any public scrutiny.

I think this was the problem.

Unlike LOTR and HP, which had a healthy community of readers who could be tapped to determine which parts were most interesting and which parts could be sacrificed to the cutting room floor, the Wachowski's flew blind when concluding their series. They tried to show everything they could do, rather than explore the dimensions people were most interested in. When they realized their conclusion answered none of the new questions people couldn't help but ask -- they had no opportunity to recover their loss, save to push a worldwide release.

It's sad, too. Matrix Revolutions should have been a revolution inside the Matrix; the humans taking over their own virtual world, perhaps saving their own, perhaps abandoning it to the machines. Fundamentally, it should have been about the many within, not the grungy escapees. And so many interesting opportunities were abandoned...the spoon from the Matrix showing up in Zion, for instance. E

I don't know what happened. But I do know -- the serial format has brought some astonishing successes, and alot of money -- but when it fails, it seems to fail big.

Yours Truly,

Dan Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Zog The Undeniable]

The HP schedule is in trouble...film 3 isn't going to be out until June 2004 (the first two were released in Nov 2001 and Nov 2002) and the cast are ageing at a speed only schoolkids can. It's unlikely that film 7, if it's ever made, will be able to use the same Harry, Hermione and Ron unless they're *very* baby-faced twentysomethings.

Besides, can you think of *any* film franchise that has gone beyond 3 without sucking a very large one? Please, no-one say Police Academy.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Carbonite]

Besides, can you think of *any* film franchise that has gone beyond 3 without sucking a very large one?

James Bond. The 21st film is planned for release in 2005.

Whatever happened to Revolutions?

[aliens]

It was hyped before the release and after the first day it seemed like they had spent their marketting budget.

I think I saw one or two ads after the fact but it was almost like it came in with a gusto and left a week later in a wimper.

Re:Whatever happened to Revolutions?

[the Man in Black]

It's because it flopped. It was horrible, why would they spend money advertising something that failed so horribly.

Yeah, if only I could have such a failure.

Reloaded
Revolutions

And let me stop you before you go nattering on about how it doesn't matter how much money it made, it was still a flopped and it sucked and I hated it and people that liked it are dumb. That's an opinion, and you're entitled to it. The movie was a financial success, if not a critical one, and my opinion has always been that critical review is flaky and insubstantial anyway. Critics hated the Wizard of Oz when it came out.

Kind of like /., where we hate everything. :)

Bottom line, I liked it, a lot of people didn't which is understandable. I'll be buying the boxed set when it comes out and keeping 'GLMatrix' as my screensaver and sporting my "I took the red pill" shirt proudly.

Re:Whatever happened to Revolutions?

[Tibor the Hun]

i'm not sure if i would call it a financial success quite yet.

it doesn't look like the movie will domestically make as much as they spent making and promoting it.

while it did make a ton of money, and they can still count on DVD sales, it doesn't look like it's making the kind of figures they expected.
i imagine the execs feel much like parents whose first two children became doctors, and the third one a bus driver. (nothing against bus drivers, but all things being relative, something doesn't quite jive)

Re:Whatever happened to Revolutions?

[glwtta]

The movie was a financial success, if not a critical one, and my opinion has always been that critical review is flaky and insubstantial anyway.

By all of this you aren't purporting to say that a movie should be considered "good" because it made a lot of money, are you?

And we aren't really talking about "critical reviews" anyway, it's more the sitting there in the dark theater and being bored out of my skull; that's what I'm using as a measure of success in the current instance. (I know, I know - I don't get it, and I am stupid, etc, etc.)

Re:Whatever happened to Revolutions?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll be buying the boxed set when it comes out and keeping 'GLMatrix' as my screensaver and sporting my "I took the red pill" shirt proudly.

Then you are a big fat dork. And that's coming from a true dork, so you REALLY should be ashamed.

Re:Whatever happened to Revolutions?

[RedWizzard]

The movie was a financial success

Most people don't understand box office numbers so I'm going to do a bit of analysis here, just to provide some basis for this statement. I'm taking my numbers from boxofficemojo.com.

Reloaded:
Production budget: $150M
Marketing (estimate): $50M
International total: $456.4M

Distributors/studios gross on average 55%* of the box office takings, so WB made approx. $250M. It also has DVD and video rentals and sales of around $30M. A definite financial success.

Revolutions:
Production budget: $150M
Marketing (estimate): $35M
International total: $275M

WB made only $150M. With merchandising and video/DVD this would also be a financial success, but not by much.

* It might have been higher for Reloaded with the high degree of early sales and the expectation of high sales.

General link on movie distribution financials.

On conclusion jumping....

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow for a guy that presumes so much you really don't pay much attention. To well anything.

First of all your ideal "revolution" was addressed in the first two movies. They result being death for the humans.

The "spoon" wasn't from the matrix, why would you even assume something so stupid? It was a spoon from a person who said something about spoons in the first movie. My God, what would cause someone, when confronted with that little "puzzle," to assume the stupidest thing they could imagine.

For better or worst, the Wachowski brother's got to ride the success of their first movie and make the movie they wanted to, about what they wanted to, in the way they wanted to.

The story line, ultimately, wasn't about the people, it was about the individual. Everyone has that spark of the divine with in them, whether they know it or not If they can find their way to have faith in that, they can do great things, which are probably very difficult. Simple and popular sentiment. But their take on it is certainly unique and uncommonly thorough.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[faxe]

maybe i get you wrong, but if you knew the books you would know that one book=one year, so one movie a year (more or less) would exactly display the right ageing with the actors.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[pi radians]

A lot of people would say James Bond is occasionally still entertaining. The best ones are scattered throughout the series (with the last arguably being Goldeneye).

Translation

[glrotate]

It was crap.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Baah Baaah.

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Not saying "bah" out of any sort of disbelief. Quite the opposite. Isn't "baaah" the sound sheep make?
(note: *I* am making the sheep noises, therefore *I* must be the sheep.)

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Effugas]

Precisely. Harry Potter 2 was not as well received as the first, with the director pulled off the third movie even before the second came out. The funds for the third were guaranteed, but something big happened to alter where those funds went. The same actors might not be around for Harry Potter 7 (probably 8 or 9, given the growing girth of the books), but the series will not be ground into the tarmac.

By comparison, The Matrix trilogy is _dead_, in a way that eclipses the failures of Godfather 3, or to a lesser extent, Terminator 3. We've been seeing some billion dollar bets lately. This was a lost one.

--Dan

YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!!!

[master0ne]

DAMN YOU, YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD, IM STILL DOWNLOADING IT..., I havent seen it yet, I cant wait..... (2x damn lameness filter) cant wait, cant wait, cant wait, cant wait, cant wait, cant wait, cant wait, cant wait....

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Anonymous Coward]

Were the Matrix sequels really written in response to the success of the first?

Contrary to the belief that the first movie was perfect in every way, it really left a lot more unexplained than the 3rd did. It is just that the first didn't bother to point it out and then fail miserably in presentation.
I mean, yeah, he's some sort of demigod and he can fly. That's it? Everyone lives happily ever after?

There were a lot of rumors after Matrix Episode One that there would be a prequel and a sequel. Then, this apparently turned into two sequels along with the Animatrix spinoff.
Does anyone really know if the trilogy was planned from the start (pending studio approval which, of course, would be contingent on the "pilot" being successful), or if it was just an attempt to desperately extend that 15 seconds (or the $$$)?

BTW, the spoon showing up in Zion would have been lame and shallow, worse than what we did get in Revolutions.

Re:WARNING! LINK REDIRECTS TO GOASTE.CX! MOD DOWN!

[Anonymous Coward]

YHBT

HTH

HAND

Baudrillardian Time

[sethx9]

Downloading the trailers couldn't be more of a waste of time than sitting through the 2nd and 3rd of the trilogy......

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Effugas]

Nearly all sequels are written in response to the success of the first. Some are pre-written in more depth than others, but anything produced after a reaction to an original is altered by that reaction. Welcome to the creative process.

The first movie ends with Neo saying he was going to show people the world they lived in. The last movie ends with Neo dead and the status quo perfectly maintained. I posit that the former is an interesting future to imagine, and the latter is just stupid. "So, everyone remains enslaved, Zion lives happily ever after, and nobody inside figures out the nature of their virtual universe?"

Right.

My point with the spoon is -- where's the payoff? Why is it neat that there's a spoon, except to show off Jar Jar Matrix?

There was no payoff to Revolutions, and that's why an otherwise independantly OK movie is so very reviled.

--Dan

Re:cool

[daquake]

Never before released? The Mirage Trailer was the ONLY trailer I saw for the original MAtrix and I have a copy of it in my movies folder, what are the Wachowski's smoking now.. sheesh.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[JonathanBoyd]

Besides, can you think of *any* film franchise that has gone beyond 3 without sucking a very large one? Please, no-one say Police Academy.

Star Trek. 2, 6 and 8 were arguably the best, followed by 4 and 7, then the rest. The only one that really sucked big time in my opinion was 5 and even it has rewatchable bits.

**** = swear word

[Anonymous Coward]

Who gives a **** about ****ing Matrix, the ****tiest piece of **** trilogy ever made, worthless mother****ing *** **** **** **** I want my ****ing money back because I've never been ripped off before blatantly from a bunch of ****ing ****ots

Just my two cents

This is "Stuff that matters?"

[WirelessMike]

Sorry... But here is testament to the fact that who you are, not what you have, qualifies your article for post on slashdot. So many other good articles by this author, and they're all slashdot worthy... Why this substandard one, too, instead of a truly newsworthy article by someone else?

Trailers done by slashdotters?

[WalterSobchak]

Did anyone else think, in the "missing trailer", when they showed the text 'In 1999 The Matrix Has You'

"Shouldn't that be 'In Soviet Russia'?"

Could not resist, sorry.

Alex

That's not what we're looking for.

[biendamon]

We're looking for a cohesive plot, believable characters, and (on the geeky side) well-integrated special effects that don't distract us from the story, not an excuse for the movie-makers to bludgeon us over the heads with their cleverness.

I see in the Reloaded and Revolutions the same problems I see in Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones: A big idea, executed poorly.

In the first Matrix, parallels with mythical/historical figures were obvious. Neo was a Christ-like figure, Morpheus a prophet, and Cypher a Judas. But Neo was also a conflicted hacker, Morpheus had a personality containing something besides bombast, and Cypher was an interesting villain in his own right. In other words, the characters were certainly analogues for other characters, but they were also themselves. They had senses of humour, they could love and hate, they had weaknesses and strengths, and were, for lack of a better word, human.

Then came Reloaded, and all of that was lost. The parallels between the characters and figures went from subtle to painfully transparent, and the characters stopped being themselves. They were cardboard representations of the archetypes they were meant to represent.

What made the first Matrix so compelling was the human element, which was lost in the sequels. Instead, we got Link and his wife as sort of an afterthought, and they are utterly forgettable. We have the guy I can only think of as "Spoon-boy," whose dialogue was so painful to watch I almost asked for my money back. We have Morpheus going from desperate searcher to religious zealot, while the commander who doesn't believe him (the only person in Zion with an ounce of common sense) portrayed as a one-dimensional obstacle to truth and light and all that crap.

These movies were bad. I mean BAD. But the worst thing about them was that the story concept was still good.

My suspicion is that the Wachowski brothers suffer from the same problem George Lucas does now. No one will tell them "uhh, guys, this dialogue sucks!" Or better yet "why don't you guys stick to directing and coming up with plotline, and let other people do the writing." Or even "for the love of god, guys, let an editor have a crack at this tripe!"

Re:That's not what we're looking for.

[bwy]

You're right with your comparison to Episodes I and II. And I don't think you'll find a geek who doesn't see the potential that either had.

Of course, when you see a trilogy like LOTR that fit together so freaking well and the acting is very good, it just makes SW & Matrix look even worse. I mean, honestly.... this is the benchmark others need to reach for. Sure we're talking fantasy vs. sci fi but they aren't so different in the end- an epic is an epic. I hope the LOTR trilogy makes a billion dollars. Money talks and identifies to the industry what we'd like to see more of.

Trailers, I don't want no stinking trailers

[Anonymous Coward]

I want the dam movie! I hear WB is not going to fix(read replace) the screwed up versions of the revolutions DVD's and MAY recode it for the box set.

MAY recode it! If I wanted to watch hack sawed versions of the film I'd have purchased a full screen version instead of a wide screen one.

Yeah I'm a little pissed about the framing on the widescreen versions, more so about the way WB is blowing people off saying it's a non issue.

Re:Trailers, I don't want no stinking trailers

[Anonymous Coward]

bah, too pissed to think straight, it's the reloaded DVD that's got the framing all messed.

One thing's for certain

[Anonymous Coward]

You people care way to fuckin much about movies. Jesus Christ.

Given up

[Dun Malg]

Haven't most of us given up on the Matrix by now? What did it for me was the part with the squid-firing mechs and "we go over them". So the machines can build levitating/hovering squid machines but they can't figure out how to put a solar panel on a helium balloon? Bah!

Re:Given up

[jefftp]

If you didn't notice, the hovercraft lost all powered systems when it went through the electrical storms. What good would it serve the machines to build a helium balloon if all the equipment they floated through the clouds was destroyed?

Re:Given up

[UrGeek]

Hey, some of us never give up on "Duck Soup" or "Animal Crackers".

Re:Given up

[Dun Malg]

If you didn't notice, the hovercraft lost all powered systems when it went through the electrical storms. What good would it serve the machines to build a helium balloon if all the equipment they floated through the clouds was destroyed?

I don't think it was clear whether it was squid-damage or lightning that led to the craft losing power, but anyway electrical storms aren't magic barriers. Planes get struck by lightining all the time. A tethered helium balloon with a well grounded tether isn't going to be stopped by lightining. I was willing to overlook all the sham physics in the "real world" parts so long as there was a possibility that the "real world" was only and "outer matrix". When it became clear that we were expected to swallow the "people as batteries" premise as plausible, that's where I drew the line.

***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[nehril]

Major Matrix 3 Spoiler alert: you have been warned.

what did we learn in the train station scene?
1. there is an outer computer world that is much like the matrix, where the machine programs live.

2. they combine to produce new mental "offspring," the mother and dad figures. they do NOT reproduce via cloning, like agent smith does. Societies of perfect (agent smith-like) clones can fail to a single infection/problem (see Ghost in the Shell for more on this, pretty sure the comics-crazy watchowski brothers did). that's why agent smith is a fundamental threat against the machines. Smith gains the ability to break the rules and ignore "kill" and "do not clone" signals, which is exactly what Neo learned in #1 in order to become The One.

3. there is a link between the outer world and the Matrix human playpen/pigsty that is tightly controlled but also subject to a black market (the frenchman likes his kicks, and sells them to others)

4. program offspring in the outer matrix must already have a reason to exist, otherwise they are terminated. the matrix is a bit of a legal backwater where unneeded programs can live and perhaps FIND a purpose ("what good is a newborn babe?")

5. misc. other: the "eyes of the oracle", why are the so important? the oracle is one of the two designers of the matrix. she knows the state of everything in it (omniscient in a way that is not possible in the real world due to heisenberg). She also has a deep understanding of humans, and can usually predict what they will do. this is the nature of her "fortune telling." it is not perfect, human choices sometimes are unpredictable (this is the fundamental flaw in the matrix according to the Architect). She also "cannot see past the choices we don't understand." If she doesn't understand a decision fully, she cannot predict it's outcome.

This plays back to the Frenchman's longwinded speech in 2: action-reaction. He believes that if you poke a human a certain way, you can predict the response. we have no free will, we are just deterministic biological computers (he demonstrates this with the chocolate cake.) so he seeks knowlege, and ultimately control via gaining the "eyes of the oracle," which must allow the owner to see all of the matrix from a "programmer with debugger tool" perspective.

however, the oracle knows that perfect knowlege of the world and it's history DOES NOT give one perfect prescience. whatever drives human free will (choice) is sometimes unpredictable. we are NOT deterministic creatures.

And for the final mega spoiler theory: smith and neo cannot kill each other at the end of #3. they both know it, they can both ignore kill signals. smith infects neo, then Neo *chooses to die*!!! smith cannot avoid this internal kill signal. all his clones fall prey to the same signal. they *all* die. smith even with the oracle's powers can not have known that trinity had died in the real world and that neo would choose follow her in death. so he could not forsee beyond that choice he did not understand. (if trinity were alive, neo probably would not have made that choice).

End of Class.

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[jorlando]

clap! clap! clap!

reading your class I almost forgot that matrix reloaded was a shitty film, but unfortunatelly the movie wasn't so good as your summarization IMO.

All the parts were there, but something was missing...

the first movie was excellent, a hint about our own world that could be an illusion... the second... failed a little, the very long kung fu sequences weren't necessary... but was very open ended... a matrix inside a matrix, maybe neo wasn't really out of the matrix, why could he destroy the sentinels?... the third... shit... so many possibilities and they did the special SFX messiah thing...

BTW, I don't think that agent Smith cloned himself... I think that he was acting like a virus, infecting and replicating his behaviour in other programs and ignoring termsig. only when neo was infected the architect could see the procces number and kill it

and more, the horror, the horror... the matrix run a MS OS... only that damn thing can have so much viruses and proccesses running amok ignoring every kill sign :-)

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[skeller]

Wow. That's the first time I've ever heard anyone make any sense of the third film.

Except how does Neo do what he does in the real world? Specifically mess with the Sentinels and "see" even though he's been blinded?

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[nehril]

in the first two films we get the feeling that all the superpower schtick comes from the power of mind/willpower. it's a nice premise and makes it all believable. but the third sets neo up as a "superhero with unexplained superpowers" in a Marvel Comics kind of way. "he just... can." It's a cop-out, and lame in a Lucas-esque "the Force is really generated by bacterial midichlorians infections" style.

that part is lame, or at least I haven't figured out any intelligence behind it. As for the rest, see the film "Waking Life" for a quick intro to philosophy that will aid understanding the Matrix.

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[BxT]

--Cut excellent text explaining the train station scene--

This is great and all, but why wasn't there more gun play? :)

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[readpunk]

Uh, I don't think so.

The world, according to The Matrix and how I understand it is dualistic. Meaning that their are material substances (our bodies) and immaterial substances (our souls). Neo when he becomes blind, transcends dualism and can then see through to what/who something/someone truly is. It basically makes him Jesus. Which was well illustrated with the final scene. Difference being Jesus didn't have to become blind to see both sides of our universal dualism, because Jesus was 1337.

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[SCHecklerX]

One theory is that neo has special hardware in addition to his plugs. He is able to 'jack in' wirelessly (the matrix is 'hacked' into wirelessly from the ships, right?). Since neo understands the communications protocols, he can 'see' because he can follow those protocols, being connected wirelessly.

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[nehril]

I understand that subtext, it's the "overtext" that I don't get. the underlying point is well made but it does seem to connect with the visible film. how exactly does he do all this? is he psychic? is he a mutant? did the oracle have an 802.11 chipset embedded into his brain at birth? when he blows up the machines is he logging into the matrix and sending them destruct signals? Or is he like the girl in Stephen King's "Firestarter" and Just Nuking?

there isn't even a hint as to what's going on, and deus ex machina is... unworthy of the rest of the film.

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[YOU LIKEWISE FAIL IT]

Huh, that was interesting. I might go and see it now.

YLFI

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[colaco]

I think not.

The pattern of grow that is described is more like a tumor.

A tumor is composed of cells that are more or less clones of a cell (like agent Smith). Usually, in a organism, the cells don't replicate forever, and are stopped by signals send by other cells in the tissue, body or even in itself.

What happens to a cell to start replicating like mad (as in a tumor) is that the genes of the receptors to the stop signals are damaged (mutated), and the cell ignores those signals. The cell can also start producing start signals itself with the same result.

After this the parallels with agent Smith cloning are evident.

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

The also has a deep understanding of humans, and can usually predict what they will do. this is the nature of her "fortune telling."

Of course. She's an oracle. That's pretty well the definition of an Oracle.

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[readpunk]

Well since the final movie is about faith, I think it becomes clear not that he is a mutant, or a psychic but rather that he is just simply "the one". What Neo is doing is fighting them in the other part of the dualism of our world. If that is immaterial you wouldn't be able to see it. He is Jesus-esque and this makes him able to do these things. Neo may not be the son of God but he is the savior and this is what enables him to do what he does. You are looking for a reason when just like the information given in the first film leaves you with no reason why Neo is "the one" other than the fact that there was someone before him who was "the one" who freed the initial group, so it makes no sense to look for a reason why Neo is what he is. Isn't that what faith is all about? Being a blind sheep that believes what it is you want to believe because of some innate emotional response to that belief?

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[jorlando]

the pattern seems a tumor... or an infection... but I said virus since agent Smith is a computer program and we don't have (at least we don't call) a "computer tumor" and clearly he isn't a worm... we'll... he may be spread like one, but I wouldn't say "hey smith, you worm"... no sir... :-)

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[UpnAtom]

One possible clue is the machines' reliance on humans. The battery idea is evidence that either the Wachowski brothers weren't really thinking or that humans provide something else the machines can't mine.

Along the same line, the whole trilogy is about choices. The humans need a choice in order to accept the Matrix. The Architect needs to give The One a choice about rebooting the Matrix.

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[jorlando]

"the Force is really generated by bacterial midichlorians infections" is the proof that george lucas turned to the dark side... since ep. IV we knew (we, the older people (+30) son, let me rest in the chair and I'll tell you a story) that the rebelion was against the empire, trying to restore the republic that was fair and just.

what we see in ep.I? a mob of bureaucrats that can't move to do justice from an armored corporation against a pacific planet... that's what the rebels wanted to restore? come on...

the midichlorians part almost made me cry... the force was just it... something around living things that some people could sense and even control to gain apparent impossible powers, no mather race, intelligence... now it's a puny bachteria-like thing that can be detected with a blood test...

the jedi? the keepers of peace and justice? monk-like beings, that couldn't have a family or get involved with mundane matters... that part blew me away... everybdy used to read the star wars book remember jedi characters that had a family.... even luke is married in the books, corran horn came from a lineage of jedis... and the books were "aproved material" by lucas arts, so they could be considered "gospel"

george lucas ignored all this to write the first three episodes... the dark side is powerful, indeed...

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[beguyld]

"the Force is really generated by bacterial midichlorians infections"

The midichlorians do not generate The Force. They are just a bridge. "They make us aware of the Living Force" I believe is the line from the movie (which I just saw again a couple days ago). The Force is entirely separate from any individual life form. It is everywhere. The trick is to be able to sense what is essentially another dimension of life that is not physical in the way we normally think of it.

Some people have it, some don't. Some people realize there is more to life than /. and some don't....

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[nehril]

I actually just saw it for the second time a few hours ago. I think I have it now: When Neo meets the oracle again, he asks her where all these powers come from. She responds by saying "do you remember the first time you walked through that door? look at you now, you've surprised me. but I still like candy" and offers him a *red* candy, just like in #2.

Neo thinks for a moment (keanu really is a terrible actor) and then pointedly declines the candy. he says "you left me a few surprises too." The red candy, like the red pill of the first movie, might actually be a program that changed neo somehow, giving him this wireless capability. Or activating built in chips as another poster mentioned (we do know that ALL matrix/computer activity is wireless, as they always go up to "broadcast depth" to connect.) maybe their ships' "brain needle connectors" are just amplifiers for the signals generated/received by the wired in gear.

Also note that the infamous train station is "Mobil Station."

of course, I might also be completely full of shit. ;) other interesting stuff I noticed the second time around: in the rave/techno club room where they meet the frenchman (obvious reverse image to the humans' rave scene in the second) there's a lady with a black mask with giant spikes sticking out--JUST like the face neo meets at the end. there's a few other masks that are quite similar.

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[Anonymous Coward]

hanx for the explanations! That made much more sense than the film (I was probably irritaed by all the cool action scenes :)

Cheers,

Tels

Re:***HUGE SPOILER ALERT***

[cerenyx]

I was always under the impression that Neo killed Smith by allowing the big-bad machines in the Machine City to open a direct conduit to the Smith program through Neo, due to the fact that Neo was plugged into the Matrix *through* the Machines themselves. Hence once Smith added Neo to his Smith-clan, Neo could then destroy it from the inside, by sacrificing himself and allowing the machines to 'debug' the virus-code from the inside.

But your insight into how he chooses to die because Trinity is already dead makes perfect sense; thank you for that.

The Slashdot Contradiction

[Renaud]

Funny how MPAA members (/. speak for something slightly more evil than satanist child molesters) , can turn into "fine folks" when circumstances need it.

You take both pills...

[rice_burners_suck]

You take the blue pill, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

who the fuck cares ?

[Anonymous Coward]

who the fuck cares ?

I think you've got it way backwards

[Anonymous Coward]

Over time, the last two Matrix movies will just fade away. They're like Godfather III, their stature will sink more and more until it's just the original movie that receives any respect anymore.

Matrix II and III suffered from the writers trying to create a deeper movie than they were actually capable of. Same problem Lucas is running into.

Writers should heed their own limitations and not try to overreach for the fanboys.

I thought the first movie was quite intelligent.

As to the conversation you quote, there's nothing to think about. You can try to create a deeper meaning just to salvage crappy dialogue such as that. But it is entirely of your own creation. Why not create your own entire story and not just leverage off a movie that was already overextended?

Re:Now Available!

[Anonymous Coward]

Where's the link? I'm lookin' for someone to suck my bone.

Yeah baby!

[theendlessnow]

Wow... now that the trailers are out, the whole trilogy makes perfect sense. I've certainly changed my opinion on the Matrix!!

Looking forward to many more trailers! I just hope that Neo doesn't die again.

I am so sick of "The Matrix"

[wcrowe]

It makes me wanna puke!

Star Wars

[Lady Jazzica]

Star Wars episodes 4 and 5 were quite good.

Re:Star Wars

[Anonymous Coward]

Star Wars was good, Return of the Jedi was good, The Empire Strikes Back was a heap of toss. Episode One sucked, never saw Attack of the Clones, and the only way I'll be persuaded to watch Episode Three is if Jar Jar Binks dies horribly near the beginning. And then I'll probably walk out of the cinema smiling.

Yawn.....

[mnemotronic]

i'm transfixed
by the politics
of the matrix
celluoid intermix.
Pretentious comics
too many tricks
need a dose
truth be told
a reality hose
a sanity fix.
too much crap.
directors snapped.
feedback zapped.
loop got cracked.

1 was provoking
my brain was smoking
existance is a dream
the machine
is stroking.

2 much kung foo
used as the glue
plot disappeared
keanu shoulda too.

3 i didn't see
previews are free
it's all there
story scree.

Phantom Menace teaser - best trailer ever

[AttillaTheNun]

I still remember the goosebumps I had when I first viewed the Phantom Menace teaser trailer. Keep in mind that this is before you actually heard Jar Jar open his mouth.

The soundtrack was all original-trilogy, the story looked promising, the opening, with the Gungans walking through the mist...the battles and characters all looked really cool. Man, I thought this was going to be the most kick-ass movie ever.

Then I saw the movie and was completely underwhelmed. Still, I have to give credit to the editors of that trailer - it still kicks ass.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[glwtta]

James Bond. The 21st film is planned for release in 2005.

I'll agree that it's gone beyond 3 without sucking, but the last few really leave a lot to be desired.

bit of an obvious question but

[ajs318]

What do I play 'em in? I've tried Kaboodle, VLC and Xine - no success {OK, sound in Xine, but no picture}.

Meanwhile I'm off to search for updated versions of my favourite media players.

Re:bit of an obvious question but

[TeknoHog]

MPlayer

Re:bit of an obvious question but

[ajs318]

tnx

Re:bit of an obvious question but

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about you, but vlc plays them just fine, sound and all. Maybe because I installed mplayer and it's windows DLLs beforehand?

Cheers,

Tels

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[glwtta]

Besides, can you think of *any* film franchise that has gone beyond 3 without sucking a very large one?

Well, even thought they say that LOTR is only 3 movies, there's gotta be at least 6 or so movies in there.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Blakey Rat]

Watch the original six again.

I used to share the same opinion, but now I realize that Star Trek III really, really sucked... even worse than V did. Watch it again, and pay particular attention to the casting...

Dirty!

[No Such Agency]

Why are you wasting time here? There's "slash" fanfic to be written, dammit!

I was in Tower Records one day...

[vudufixit]

With a friend of mine. He noticed the "Matrix Revisited" DVD, of which he had never heard. I explained what it was and added, "It seems like you could put shit on a stick, call it "The Matrix" and you'll get plenty of takers." My eyes rack-focused to someone standing behind my friend, and he simply nodded, giving me the thumbs-up. You can say all you want about the philosophical ideas in the Matrix, I still see the Matrix itself primarily as a clever device for the Wachowskis to make a pastiche of all of the kung-fu, wire-fu, and gun-fu movies they've ever seen.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Naiposea]

If I remember the Matrix Revisted accurately (the "Making Of" DVD for the original Matrix), the entire trilogy was written before the first film was made, and that they made the first film with the intention of it being the first in a set of three films. I do agree though that adding sequels just because first film did well can lead to some awful screw-ups, though this isn't awlays the case (ie, Terminator 2).

What I really want to see is...

[alcmaeon]

...all the coherent scenes that must have been cut, but had they been included, would have made the last two movies make sense.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Effugas]

I actually don't doubt that a trilogy was planned; quite a bit of backstory was hinted at with regards to a prequel (and a little for a sequel). The problem is, a prequel couldn't have Keanu, and Keanu sold the show.

So there might have been a trilogy, but I assure you: This wasn't it.

--Dan

Matrix Revolutions Plot Summary

[mac os ken]

Morpheus: **its going to hit the fan. The fan an obvious metaphor for Zion.

Neo: Woah.

Morpheus: But we've known that since the first movie.

...a few minutes later...

Zion is being attacked. The next hour and a half consists of:
Shooting robots.
Shooting robots.
Shooting robots.
Shooting robots.
Shooting robots.
Shooting the wall.
Shooting robots.
Shooting robots.
"Accidental Friendly Fire." (The guy owed me a few bucks.)
Shooting robots.
Shooting bigger robots.

Neo: I know how to save Zion. I have to login to the kernal and see if he'll grant me root/admin privileges.

LOGIN: Neo
PASSWORD: trinitywaseasy

(Neo clicks Apple > Restart.)
The End!
Honestly I don't care about "High Resolution" trailers and other propoganda if the actual content is crap.

The Matrix Reb/Blue Pill picture.....

[sk8king]

.... used to get my interest on slashdot, but after seeing 2&3, I don't really care. Nehril's synopsis was actually better than the movies as someone indicated. Thank you.

Sorry to Hijack...

[Anonymous Coward]

But this is the top one, and I need to say this.

It is not "re-encode."

To re-encode it, you would take the originally encoded file (say, a 30fps 640x480 Divx with 128kbps MP3 sound).

You CANNOT get it any higher than that. Well, you can... but it would look just like the original. You cannot make a better quality than the original.

That's why it is not being re-encoded, however encoded, into better quality.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[JonathanBoyd]

I didn't list III in my great or good section. I would call it 'ok' but not terrible. Besides, the accusation was that everything past 3 was rubbish, which I disagree with.

...on the ninth day of Christmas...

[Fjornir]

On the ninth day of Christmas, Slashdot gave to me: 9 Matrix Trailers

3 days left... :)

James Bond

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, that went 5 before sucking.

This is what Hollywood is good at...

[zosa]

...creating trailers. They have become masters of great-looking, action-packed 30 to 60-second spots for movies that are generally pretty poor.

Harry Potter at 50

[Hoi Polloi]

I want to see them keep using the same actors. I want to see Hermione dealing with menopause ("Alanda heat flashus!"), Ron in rehab, and Harry struggling with 2 failed marriages and a soul crushing job as head school custodian.

The Asstrix

[Hoi Polloi]

I can see it now, "The Asstrix - How deep does the butthole go?". Starring Ron Jeremy as Morpheus.

Re:The Asstrix

[Anonymous Coward]

"Follow the white beaver." er no I didn't write that...

Unknown character in new trailer.

[freakmn]

Does anyone know who the character is that flashes on the screen ~36 sec into the movie? They are pale and laying on the table. Is this supposed to be Neo? Perhaps a double?

Sad, but true

[Overly Critical Guy]

Pretend you never saw Matrix Reloaded, and watch its trailer. The movie looks fucking cool!

The so-called Burly Brawl would have worked so much better if it had intercut between CG and real movement just like the trailer does. But the flying camera made it seem too obviously unreal. Plus, the trailer has that cool "Supermoves" song.

The Matrix Revolutions also has the same effect, to a lesser extent. The trailers are incredible. The way the full scenes were edited in the movie, however, shatter them.

Re:Here's the Torrent - http://www.filerush.com/to

[PapaZit]

Damn. That's one poorly seeded torrent. I was uploading more than I was downloading almost immediately. By the time the download finished, I'd uploaded 2-3x more than I'd downloaded. I'm currently uploading at 1050 KiB/s.

C'mon folks. Stay connected for a while after you finish downloading -- at least until you've uploaded as much as you've downloaded.

The Oracle's last line in Matrix Revolutions

[Overly Critical Guy]

She also has a deep understanding of humans, and can usually predict what they will do.

At the end of the trilogy, she says she never knew--she just believed.

The point seemingly being that it wasn't that she knew something was going to happen, but that she believed it would happen and aided in such. Self-fulfilling prophecy?

It's too damned bad the movie itself doesn't live up to the subtexts it raises.

Re:The Oracle's last line in Matrix Revolutions

[wrt2]

Although I've got strong opinions of these movies -- I love them, and am happy for the temporary corporate insanity which allowed them to be produced -- I've not said much about them online. At the end of Revolutions, the Oracle is responding to Seraph's question, "Did you always know?" Spelling that question out fully, what Seraph is asking is did you know that Neo, rather than Smith, would end the war? The answer to that question is no. The Oracle made the choice to help Neo, but it was a choice she did not understand -- she couldn't see past it. She told Neo that "one way or another, this war is going to end," but she did not know which way. When the Architect tells the Oracle that "you've played a dangerous game," it is to acknowledge the fact that had her belief in Neo been misplaced, the Oracle's choice would have ended all sentient life on Earth.

I believe that Reloaded and Revolutions would probably work best shown back-to-back with a 15-minute intermission between. They tell a complex story involving a large cast of characters, all of whom are involved in a fight for survival and many of whom have to deal with one or more invalidations of their worldview, most significantly Morpheus and Neo. That this story is told in a hair over four hours screen time is amazing. Since there is no preexisting text to draw on (LoTR), and no novelization either (2001), the understanding of what it is you're seeing -- what's real and not real -- has to come from you "making up your own damn mind." I love that.

"You've played a dangerous game."
"Change always is."

That's what we all wanted

[Overly Critical Guy]

You pretty much described the sequels we were all expecting, particularly after the phone conversation at the end of the first film.

We were all looking forward to an incredible sequel involving Neo freeing the people Matrix world as the Agents and whatever else tried desperately to stop him, and then the entire freed world tackling the machines in the third film and destroying their captors in ultimate victory. Neo was supposed to be the superhero to end all superheroes.

However, the sequels decided to obssess about the destruction of Zion and treat the Matrix and its people as just another environment and not the objective, like in the first film. Not only is this surprising and boring, but it completely removed the resonance the first movie had. We connected with the message of the first movie because we feel like we're in a controlled Matrix, and on some level, we question that reality. The Matrix inhabitants were us.

We don't feel like we're in a cave underground dancing in the mud as people tell us the machines are coming. I never gave a shit about Zion, not even in the first movie, in which it's just a plot point to explain the existence of rebels and why Morpheus is captured.

Along with that, they removed the machines as the main enemy and out of nowhere replaced it with Smith clones. Matrix Revolutions felt like it had no payoff.

Meanwhile, ROTK spends an extra 20 minutes making sure you felt like it was worth it sticking through all three long movies, and I adored all the resolutions it gave us. No deeper message about the flaws of humanity, no innumerable layers of philosophical and religious context to dig through to understand the story...just themes of courage and friendship and the pain of war, and the battle of good and evil. Matrix Revolutions feels so cold and dreary and hollow now.

It's so sad that various fan-fictions depicted better sequels than what we got.

Re:That's what we all wanted

[OgreChow]

Thank you! You hit the nail on the head. I wish I had a few mod points for you - you spelled out exactly what I was trying to say, but much less lazily and far more coherently.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll agree that it's gone beyond 3 without sucking, but the last few really leave a lot to be desired.

I used to love James Bond movies when I was a kid, but having seen a few of the early ones recently I now think that they *all* sucked to varying degrees[*]. I just didn't know this until I was an adult. :(

[*] Although, yeah, recent movies have been *vastly* worse - they used to at least acknowledge that things like basic physics might exist.

Not according to the Wachowskis

[Overly Critical Guy]

Meanwhile, The Matrix sequels were written in response to the success of the original, meaning the third one got a screenplay before the second saw any public scrutiny.

Joel Silver has spoken before about how the Wachowskis came to him with a sci-fi trilogy even around 1994. The idea was an episodic storyline like a comic book.

They made Bound to prove that they could direct, then started work on the first Matrix movie.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Overly Critical Guy]

The original plan was to make a prequel, then condense the two sequel scripts into one sequel. The Wachowskis decided to use the Animatrix DVD to tell the prequel (The Second Rennaissance Parts 1 and 2), so they went on with their plan of two sequels. They had scripts for this trilogy even in the early 90s.

I assure you, this is the trilogy they had planned. Not that it changes the suckage.

But... why was it raining?

[popo]

"He who reads deep ... should bring airtank".

Re:But... why was it raining?

[nehril]

Before they fight Smith says to Neo: "Like what I've done with the place?" Smith has not only taken over the living programs and humans, even the nonliving stuff like the black cat and weather programs. It's ALL Smith. It's raining because... he can make it rain.

he probably gained the ability to do that after he got the Oracle, (remember the maniacal laughter? he now sees... EVERYTHING.)

Re:But... why was it raining?

[MrResistor]

I think he makes it rain because he sees the matrix as a nasty, filthy, smelly place, and the rain is a manifestation of his desire to cleans himself of the human stench.

Re:But... why was it raining?

[DeepZenPill]

it was raining so they could obscure the fact that most of the action was computer generated, otherwise it would've looked pretty damn corny.

Re:Phantom Menace teaser - best trailer ever

[Darth23]

Jar Jar opened hsi mout in the first TPM trailer, You just weren't paying attention.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[onomatomania]

If you consider the last handful of Bond films to not have sucked, then remind me to never let you pick a movie to see.

Re:WARNING! LINK REDIRECTS TO GOASTE.CX! MOD DOWN!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's it Mr. Anderson, look past the domain name and see your enemy.

Oh really?

[Powercntrl]

Universal Studios seems to think differently.

Never believe what you read on Slashdot, even if you think it looks right.

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

Big word up to all the prince fans!

QrapTime

[t0ny]

Too bad they didnt "upgrade" the trailers to using a good program, like WMP or DivX. If something requires me to install an abomination of an OS-killer like QuickTime, I'd rather just skip it.

Oh Thank God....

[greymond]

They re-released TRAILERS, since they were better than the ACTUAL MOVIES anyway....

UGH

Hay W Brothers! How about I give you the finger and you give me my wasted time and money back?

The Hobbit

[Overly Critical Guy]

That franchise could be LOTR if Peter Jackson is allowed to make The Hobbit.

Woaaaaaa

[Iowaguy]

Wooooaaaa, like, I think i saw some of those trailers, like, before. It was, like, ummm, deja vu.

cue music
The matrix has you.

what a waste of bandwidth

[craqboy]

I downloaded the latest trailer and am pretty dissapointed. Kind of a waste of time IMO.

Mod parent up (Whatever happened to Revolutions?)

[JonMartin]

A lot of people don't understand this and should.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Nplugd]

Besides, can you think of *any* film franchise that has gone beyond 3 without sucking a very large one? Please, no-one say Police Academy.

Uh, opinions may vary, but I got:

• Alien
  
• Lethal Weapon
  

Bravo

[AmVidia HQ]

One of the most insightful comment / summary I've read.

I wrote a little piece myself here.

Curious if Neo would be in the "outer Matrix" after he died with Smith. Afterall, he fulfilled his "messianic" purpose, and his loss of purpose was actually what allowed him to "kill" Smith, as you suggested.

And on the shittiness of Matrix 2+... I don't agree. The premise is not as original as Matrix 1 and the storytelling may not be as straight forward to understand, but appreciate the depth of the script. It's rare in many movies today.

Re:Bravo

[nehril]

I read your linked piece, it's quite good. Nobody really explains what "The Source" is, besides perhaps being a geeky reference to source code. it's possible that he exists now as a purely mental being in their world, along with the other 6 "Ones."

but I hope we never find out for sure; the wachowski brothers' storytelling ability seems to be degrading. (I also think that 2 and 3 were not that bad, but they did lack the clear storytelling edge present in the first. contrast Morpheus clear dialogue with the pretzel-like speeches of the Architect and the Frenchman.)

Re:Bravo

[AmVidia HQ]

6 "Ones"... I think there's only 1 "One", the program made to re-balance the Matrix, and is / was "re-incarnated" when needed. Basically everytime erasing his memory, and stick him into a new human body.

And this time it happens to be Keanu's body ^.^

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[evilviper]

Besides, can you think of *any* film franchise that has gone beyond 3 without sucking a very large one?

James Bond.

Obviously you haven't seen "The World is not Enough"...

I'll admit that 007 movies have done well, but they've had some terrible failures as well... Not all of them were winners by any means.

Bah, this again?

[ReverendBobtheJunkie]

I'd rather watch porn.

Re:Of Serials: Matrix, ROTK, and Harry Potter

[Effugas]

Your paragraphs contradict one another.

Second Rennassance (which was utterly brilliant, incidentally) was fascinating. But it wasn't The Matrix; it was an entirely different movie, with different heros, different villains (we're the villains), and a vastly different universe.

They couldn't tell that story. They had the wrong cast. Animatrix was a brilliant mechanism for getting the story out there, so brilliant it probably should have preceeded one of the two movies proper. But this was before Kill Bill had made it OK to mix real life and animation (and it still probably wouldn't have worked -- we expect weird things from Quentin, like sword holsters on airplanes).

Revolutions didn't work without being attached to Reloaded. Both movies bled to death on their separation from one another. Saying either was the incarnation of a pre-planned, completed trilogy is just ludicrous.

--Dan

Futility of sacrifice

[sageman]

Well, IMO...

Personally, something I thought was interesting was that in Neo's painfully-obvious messianic self-sacrifice he didn't destroy the computers, didn't accomplish anything, per se (except terminating Smith, of course), and merely prolongs the eventuality of the computers destroying Zion, et cetera. The machines are computers after all, and a promise/suggestion to do something incredibly foolish, like NOT destroying Zion and equalizing their system, is not even a possibility; the machines will still destroy Zion and kill those humans eventually, this just prolongs the wait before said event. I see this as a direct correlation to other messianic sacrifices which accomplish nothing but leading man to believe in nothing. Of course, this mostly is just me using a concept to my advantage, towards my personal bias. Pfff!

Oh yes, and the movie sucked ass too. My friends and I are planning on compliing a good movie, comprised of the important parts of the last two (meaning most of the third will be cut out) and adding in some stuff that adds a bit of subtlety to the movie (I mean, seriously, every one freaking knew Neo represented a Jesus character; is it REALLY necessary to flood the screen with all the cross imagery! The audience has a modicum of understanding, I would hope, and doesn't need this blatant symbolism pushed down their throats!)