Slashdot Mirror
LaserMonks Offer Prayer, Printer Cartridges
Minnesotan writes "According to a Twincities.com article: If you need discounted inkjet- or laser-printer cartridges, Wisconsin's LaserMonks say they'll give you a doozy of a deal while you 'support prayer for the world'. The Cistercian priests - yes, they're actual Catholic monks - oversee a novel e-commerce enterprise out of their rural abbey. Proceeds go to maintain the monastery and finance charitable works around the world."
Noticed they were using ASP, from the Evil empire....heathens!!! Oh wait they're monks, and they offer me prayers so does that cancel out and make them ok again?
...in bed
LaserMonks? With a name like that, they've got to be electric!
"They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
I guess Xerox wasn't too much off the bat...
Michael Bolton: Load Letter? What the f*ck does that mean?!?!?? You wanna step to this? I didn;t think so!
ThisIsAnExampleAccountGL@yahoo.com
Refilling your Lexmark cartridge isn't just a DMCA violation -- it's a sin!
Somebody had to say it.
This is a manual virus. Copy it to your sig and help me spread!
This is an updated verson of a very old (middle ages) tradition of monastaries doing some specialized task (and doing it well) and using thier product to sell or barter for needed supplies, food, etc...
This practice kept a lot of trades and information alive that might have otherwise died out. It would take a reel jerk to sue them for DMCA violations too =:-)
---
Play Six Pack Man. I
Whether Lexmark will attempt to DMCA them?
That'll make for a wonderful headeline:
"Lexmark to sue monks"
Still, can't help but think of Brother Theo from Babylon 5, great character.
I wonder if slashdoting the website of monks is actually a sin...
Slashdot Sig. version 0.1alpha. Use at your own risk.
I'm an athiest!
After Sharks with frickin laser beams didn't work out.... Dr Evil hatches his next plot - LASERMONKS
mwhhhahhahahaha mwhhhaaaa
Looking over the page's source, it looks like they borrowed a lot of their JavaScript. Talk about copying scripture...
/rimshot
I heard some of these monasteries actually make money off brewing beer!
(Next, they'll be back at handwriting Bibles again for the lack of printing ink...)
"We can confirm that Debian does *not* ship the version with the trojan horse. Our version predates it." [CA-2002-28]
Uhm, OT?
:D
Anyway, I'll be happy to have a pleasant, civil discussion with you!
Come over for tea sometime -- we can watch "The Life of Brian"
So they're the ones that have been spamming me!
- Sherman
I'm pretty sure slashdotting a bunch of monks is asking for plague, famine, or at least a couple of lightning bolts.
Ah, religion and politics. The atheist/libertarian geek is quite common. Some /. polls may have brought this up. I'd be very surprised to see more than a quarter theist in any way.
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
Simple, don't mention religon.
A witchdoctor toner refiller who could put a curse on SCO with each cartridge purchase.
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
I have no affiliation with Trappestine Quality Candy except that Mom orders it every year around the holidays and it's really good. Just sayin'.
:sigh: Yum!
Ok, so I have an affinity. Check my nick.
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
Wisconsin's LaserMonks say they'll give you a doozy of a deal
Are these LaserMonks related to the Electric Monk by any chance?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
...We're all going to hell
Or do they first circumsize and baptize everyone who buys a modem from them? :D
*ahem* it is the greek orthodox church, i believe that circumsized and baptizes.....not the catholics
xao
http://TheHillforum.hopto.org
This supports charities albeit without the tax deduction.
Catholics aren't circumsized. Jews are.
Uploading?
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
Welcome our new monk overlords, well actually they kinda are if they talk to god and all.
In my prayers tonight: "God, give me strength to put up with my job to take care of my Fiance..."
God: "I can do that for you, but buy some new toner for your HP Laserjet 1100 for only $50 at http://www.lasermonks.com and you'll get a raise and your Fiance will love you forever..."
...in bed
In the year 5057 A.D., a consortum of middle aged monks form a weapons production business, selling their wares exclusively to Christian battle outposts and missionaries in distant galaxies, fighting a holy war against the masses of Romulan infidels...
and so these intergalatic boomstick hawkers called themselves...PhaserMonks.
Boy, could we ever have some fun with this one! Can you prove that Caesar existed? Can you prove that Napoleon tried to conquer much of Europe? Did these things happen: Absolutely! Why? Because there is a great deal of evidence. But how do you prove these things? Impossible! You must weigh the evidence. Saying that Christianity is a fairy tale because of a lack of proof is pretty lame -- not really worthy of slashdot if you ask me.
So, what if they change their pricing plans...
"For a donation to the church of $19.95 we will refill your printer cartriges for free."
Then, you can write off the donation!
I for one would like to welcome our toner cartridge weilding lasermonk overlords ?
And their cheese is pretty good, too.
Are there going to be any comments to this story which aren't modded "funny"? I mean really, what can you say?
Next time, log out before copy-pasting Slashdot in your AC post, Dumbo ...
Yeah they're cheap as hell but the refurbished (is that the word to use?) cartridge for my HP 970 cxi flat out didn't work. In fact, I think my printer's been really confused since.
Look it's a joke about my sig IN MY SIG! LOL!
I do not know one single circumcised person.
Now they are selling us the ink to copy and illuminate whatever manuscripts we want.
Since I'm pretty sure those ancient monks never had permission to copy any of the works they did, does that make them the original data pirates?
1 0WnZ0r y3 0ld 4$5
what if it goes wrong? Do you think God would give a refund?
Rus
CPanel + Root from $35/mo - 10% off with discount code SLASHDOT
That not even God can stand a slashdotting.
Wow! No wonder I keep coming back here.
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
Buddhism is faith based. You have faith that by following the teachings of those enlightened ones, you too can become enlightened.
Post: Sigged, for your pleasure.
Which version are we talking about here ? If it's a collection of first hand accounts why so many different edits ? Shurely they aren't putting a little spin on the stories to match them up to the social ails of the day ? No, didn't think so.
Wasn't meant to be a rebuttal to the parent but to the line about fairy tales. Perhaps I put too much faith in my clicking abilities. Zero evidence is a pretty silly kind of thing to say when even the strictest Atheist historians agree that Christ was born, lived and crucified.
I do not know one single circumcised person.
Maybe I shouldn't be asking this, but how are you so sure?
We used to have a Glory to God
Towing company in Fort Collins.
this may or may not get modded to hell based on you're personal religous and spiritual orientation. Monk e-business BY JULIO OJEDA-ZAPATA Pioneer Press More photos JIM GEHRZ PHOTO The Rev. Bernard McCoy heads up LaserMonks -- when he isn't praying, of course. SPARTA, Wis. -- Phone calls to LaserMonks' rural headquarters are sometimes tinged with caution or outright suspicion. Those are awfully good prices for generic inkjet or laser-printer cartridges, a caller might remark after checking the offerings at www.lasermonks.com. What's the catch? And, c'mon, you aren't really monks, are you? A recent caller lost seven years of savings to an online scam artist after trying to book a cruise for herself and her daughters. She vowed never to buy anything else on the Internet. But with three printers churning out student papers in her Pennsylvania home, she couldn't ignore discounts of up to 90 percent over name-brand cartridges. Look, she told LaserMonks, she had trust issues. She needed the firm to set her mind at ease. LaserMonks' response helps explain why the two-year-old e-commerce venture based at the Cistercian Abbey of Our Lady of Spring Bank -- yes, with actual Catholic monks -- appears to be on a stratospheric business trajectory. At a time when online printer-cartridge vendors can trigger mistrust because of some questionable offers clogging inboxes, LaserMonks has seen its gross revenue soar from about $2,000 in 2002 to about $500,000 in 2003. Projected 2004 sales are three to four times higher still. To pull off this e-tailing feat, LaserMonks has had to win over disbelievers with high-quality products and top-flight customer service along with rock-bottom prices, not to mention small but meaningful gestures its clients don't expect. The skeptical Pennsylvania mother, for instance, got four cartridges on speculation. Try 'em out, LaserMonks said. If you like them, consider sending us a few bucks. No hurry, take a few months to think it over. The company soon got paid in full for the shipment, along with a second order for four cartridges. ORA ET LABORA The 75-year-old abbey, which has been at its current location about 130 miles southeast of St. Paul for 19 years, isn't the sort of place that screams "e-commerce hotbed." Perched on a wooded hill, just up an unpaved road and through a decorative gateway, the low-slung composite-stone structure seems bereft of life -- until Gregorian chanting tips off a visitor that white-and-black-robed inhabitants are somewhere about. Inside a small chapel, a few Cistercian priests melodiously remind themselves of the Latin dictum ora et labora -- prayer and work, always in that order. Only then does the 36-year-old Rev. Bernard McCoy trod through a carpeted hallway to his modest office -- the LaserMonks nerve center. From there, he oversees a nationwide network of people and facilities in his practical role as the abbey's "steward of temporal affairs." McCoy's key role: generating cash to support the abbey along with its complex array of charitable causes around the world. That also means overseeing a modest portfolio of real-estate holdings. One recent day, he haggled good-naturedly with the local tax assessor over one property's perceived value. Before LaserMonks came about, McCoy obsessed over other ideas for turning his perennially cash-strapped monastery into a money machine. Until last year, he sold spiritual books and other religious items on the Web. For a while, he oversaw a program to move and renovate homes due for demolition. He has considered cultivating shiitake mushrooms, building a golf resort and breeding Christmas trees. This is a common issue for monasteries, convents and other such communities, which typically must support themselves. Trappistine nuns in Dubuque, Iowa, make candy. Nearby Trappist monks build caskets. Oregon Trappists warehouse wine. Massachusetts Trappists make jams and jellies. Belgian Trappists brew beer. Filipino monks and nuns make fruit concoctions dubbed Food for the Soul. Greek Orthodox monks in Resaca, Ga., sell han
This sig blantantly stolen by a pack of robo-monkeys.
Having fewer signups into priesthood, the Catholic Church officially announced that they will be issuing standard lasers to people who complete the training program. The Pope noted that "this is a momentous occasion. Since the film Star Wars came out, the Church had contemplated issuing Light Sabers but did not want the public to know that we had such technology. Until now, we only dress like jedi knights."
On a more serious note, it's a difficult job raising money in a monastery. Unless you happen to attract genetically altered rich folks that answer to the name "47" (Hitman 2), you'll need to find creative ways to earn a living. I've heard quite a few that have products for sale ranging from seasonal fruitcake, chocolates, and now toner cartridges.
Wake me when the amish start selling toner cartridges.
What, the Scary Devil Monastery isn't good enough for you?
And the brethren went away edified.
According to Roman Catholic doctrine, you are not supposed to mutilate your body unless you explicitly need it for health reasons, or to benefit another without prejudice of your health.
Read this for more info. Circumcision used to be strictly forbidden according to canon. Only in 1952 was it considered permissible but only for health reasons.
I am Greek orthdox. Which comes from Being a Greek AND an Orthdox :)
We do get Baptized (i somehow thought that was common in catholics.. it's not!?) but we do not get circumsized.
Slashdot Sig. version 0.1alpha. Use at your own risk.
And where would geeks be without caffeine? Try Monastery Blend Coffee from the Christ the All-merciful Saviour Russian Orthodox Monstery on Vashon Island near Seattle. Excellent stuff.
And the brethren went away edified.
Is a pegan, anything like a vegan?
The article mentions in passing that the monks achieve their great 90% discount prices through "canny negotiations" with manufacturers, but distinctly does not say which manufacturers. Could they be the original mfrs? Are HP and Lexmark welcoming these guys as competitors and cutting them a huge break? Or (more likely) are we talking about the same overseas child-employing sweatshops that supply all the other incredibly cheap goods we're used to? I'd kind of like to know.
The use of 'faith' in the grandparent post implies faith in a deity or the divine, rather than faith in a method as you have implied.
Shame you can't spell "pagan", then.
Cantate Domino: ,that, when danger of death is imminent, they be baptized in the form of the Church, early without delay, even by a layman or woman, if a priest should be lacking, just as is contained more fully in the decree of the Armenians."
"It firmly believes, professes, and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law, which are divided into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments, because they were established to signify something in the future, although they were suited to the divine worship at that time, after our Lord's coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began; and that whoever, even after the passion, placed hope in these matters of the law and submitted himself to them as necessary for salvation, as if faith in Christ could not save without them, sinned mortally. Yet it does not deny that after the passion of Christ up to the promulgation of the Gospel they could have been observed until they were believed to be in no way necessary for salvation; but after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, it declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation, unless someday they recover from these errors. Therefore, it commands all who glory in the name of Christian, at whatever time, before or after baptism, to cease entirely from circumcision, since, whether or not one places hope in it, it cannot be observed at all without the loss of eternal salvation. Regarding children, indeed, because of danger of death, which can often take place, when no help can be brought to them by another remedy than through the sacrament of baptism, through which they are snatched from the domination of the Devil and adopted among the sons of God, it advises that holy baptism ought not to be deferred for forty or eighty days, or any time according to the observance of certain people, but it should be conferred as soon as it can be done conveniently, but so
Would you like friars with that?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Yes it is, they never eat anything that ever had to pee
--Joey
I think he's aiming at subliminal 'stud' link ... :)
Actually, every Christian church baptizes. And almost everyone in the US is circumsized, but not for religious reasons.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
You know I read this over and over and still can't work out if you are serious or not. Personally I think, if you are serious, you've got a pretty strange grasp on reality.
Over the last 50-60 years a lot of stuff has been dug up in the Mid East that proves most of the ideas and history of the Bible. For more, I refer you to Werner Keller's The Bible As History, available from Amazon , for more info.
Support the Chagossians
Some Catholics, especially orthodox, follow a strict interpretation of the Old and New Testament. In the Old Testament, Jewish converts are circumsized. It is common practice for Catholics to be circumsized as well.
Indeed, they do follow a strict interpretation. However, you allude to an interpretation that is flawed.
Circumcision was used by the Jews to enter in a covenant with God. When Jesus came around, the new way to enter into the covenant with God was baptism (both Jewish circumcision and Orthodox baptisms are generally done to infants).
There is nothing against circumcision in the Eastern Orthodox Church, however it is not part of Church tradition, but has become more of a social tradition.
In short, circumcisions are for the Jews, not Christians.
Scribe, laser printers, same thing really.
Trolls dont like to be Flamebait, because they burn so well. Protect our Troll heritage!
Catholics, and many others, are circumsized in America due to a certain hang-up we have on being circumsized. Its more of a cultural thing in the US than a religious one. As a religious matter, I don't know that there is a preference on being circusized among Catholics, but its been so long since I've been a practicing Catholic that I don't recall.
do they only sell Brother ink cartridges?
Citations, please?
I'm pretty sure they did. Because many of the copied manuscripts have little line-counts in the margins, called stichoi, noting how many lines the scribe copied that day, so that the person hiring the monks to do the work knew how much to pay him. Perfectly legitimate job.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
And God sayeth unto the people:
"You know, I have one simple request - and that is, to have monks with frikkin' laser beams attached to their heads!"
Amen.
The REAL plug 'n pray ;-)
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
The gentle folk at Gethesmani do an excellent bourbon fudge. Mmmm...
Hygiene. Us lazy Americans think it's too much work to pull back a foreskin.
it was a medieval practice for a monastery to be self supportive.
Dom perignon anyone?
Wanted : A Signature.
They do? News to me. You might check your sources.
This means what, precisely? Being a christian means you have a high IQ? Puhleese. Go tell it to Gallileo.
You're bantering the same horse as the parent. (Not)? Being a Christian does not preclude someone from being smart.
Anyways, Galileo was a Christian. However, a faction in the inquisition didn't like his discoveries because it threatened their world view and|or power.
1. ...that was writen about 30 years after the fact.
2. true but irrelevant.
3.At least half of Americans are overweight, your point?
4.Has to do with number 3, theres so man of them; and I'll bet you could find a similar statistic about famous criminals
5. evolution goes pretty deep into explanation and what do you expect, I dont think that science should have all the answers by 2004 AD(ignore that) we havent even cured the common cold.
Bottom line: Never argue with a man about religion, sports, politics, music, or OS preference.
Hey, I guess I'm the only one who remembered these guys when this story rolled around, but there's an order of monks who will illuminate web pages!
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.
One of the basic tenets of Christianity is the spreading of the gospel. Your intolerance to their religious beliefs is akin to you forcing your religion, or lack thereof, on them.
It a vicious circle my friend.
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
That's odd, most of the large software companies have led me to believe those are the same thing...
True story.
Religion is product of fear.Fear of unknown.Be it natural forces or the tribe in next forest.
Wanted : A Signature.
If you don't at least see little people its not really worth it. I'll just have another Guinness.
Quack, quack.
You said the keyword: evidence. There is exactly zero evidence that Christianity is valid. Hell, there isn't even a single shred of evidence that Christ was ever born.
All in all, if I had to believe in something, whether it proved true or not, it would be Christianity. Religions sometimes have good messages in them that are worth living to.
However, I should note while the supernatural aspects of Christianity certainly cannot be proved, there are indeed non-Christian references to Jesus of a more secular nature.
That does not necessarily constitute a complete forensic analysis, but it does add to the possibility that Jesus was at least a real figure that did suffer as mentioned in the Bible.
Keep in mind that anyone who would be willing to record anything about Christianity would most likely be a Christian, immediately excluding them from the realm of what you consider a reliable source. Why would anyone who is a non-Christian bother historically noting someone who they probably considered a crackpot?
This may be one reason:
The Annals by Tactius offers a passage commonly used to claim Jesus existed in a true historical setting. Here is the excerpt:
Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus,and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.
This I believe makes a reference to Nero's claim that Christians were responsible for burning Rome. However while doing that makes a mention of Jesus. if anything, it's an interesting passage.
There are more references by Roman and Jewish sources that are interesting to consider.
So no, your above assertion is not necessarily true.
If you like to get all your calories from sugar. Its like eating a Snickers bar in a glass. Give me an IPA or a single malt.
Quack, quack.
Translation variations are more likely to be for historical or scholastic reasons than anything else, but history plays a part as well. For example, the King James version was partly created to produce an English translation to displace the Geneva Bible, mainly because James didn't like the footnotes in the latter. But it wouldn't have gotten anywhere if it didn't pass intellectual muster. Later translations such as the Revised Standard Version and the New International Version were made mostly to clean up the older version of English and to apply textual criticism principles to the contents.
Bottom line is that they're all pretty similar and the differences that exist are pretty unimportant. Think about it; tinkering with a translation is more likely to get you laughed at by anyone who knows the language, and the languages are too well known to just muck around with. Any modern Greek can pick up a copy of the New Testament and read the original language. If he knows English too, there's not a lot of wiggle room for a biased translator to move around.
Not that people don't try. Lots of cults produce their own "interpretations", but they're just not accepted. The major translations don't have a lot of variations either in the translation or the underlying text. The big difference isn't the interpretation of the text, but applying it to real life. If you want to see an editor's bias, keep an eye on the footnotes.
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
The Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Catholic Churches and the Eastern Orthodox Churches (collectively the Apostolic Churches, because they have valid, unbroken apostolic succession [which is also debatably claimed by Anglican bishops]) derive all translations of their bibles directly or indirectly from the Hebrew scriptures (the Law and the Prophets) and the Septuagint. The Septuagint adds several Greek texts to the Law and the Prophets to round out the Christian Old Testament (including the Wisdom of Jesus Son of Sirach, certain pieces of the Book of Daniel, etc.), and the four Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles and the Revelation to John, which compose the New Testament. The Protestant and Pentecostal Churches have at times left out certain Greek writings in the Old Testament which the Apostolic Churches call deuterocanonical and they call apocryphal, some because it reduces printing costs and others because they question the inspiration of them. The western churches nearly all leave out the Books of Maccabees beyond the second because they were omitted by St. Jerome in his translation into Latin, called the Vulgate, which was used almost exclusively in the Roman Church until the Second Vatican Council.
The neccessity of all the edits arises out of the diversity and dynamic nature of the common languages. Should we all not speak different languages, the Septuagint and the Vulgate would likely be sufficient. Should English not have changed since the 15th century, Anglicans would probably all still use King James' Authorized translation. But this is not the case. Even most of Jesus' own words were probably never written in any language but Greek, although his primary and possibly only language was Aramaic, spoken today only in the Assyrian Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
I hope you have some appreciation for what I wrote here, and I hope I did not offend anyone. This is not intended to be flamebait.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, + et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
Hmmm, I work at HP, and when I go to their website, all I get is:
"Access to this server is forbidden from your client"
Not very friendly monks, now are they?
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
Indeed. From what little bit I studied the Bible, it is commonly accepted that all of the gospels were written long enough after the death of Christ that not one of them could have been a first hand account by anyone alive at the time. They have references to historical events known to have occurred as much as centuries later, for crying out loud. I am not saying the Bible isn't true. I am not saying the Gospels don't tell a true story. I am just saying you certainly can't prove any part of the Bible to be true by broadly calling it a collection of first hand accounts.
My Photography - http://ian-x.com
The Deathlings (comic) - http://thedeathlings.com
...apparently even god can't protect a server from a good slashdotting :)
"Give someone a program, frustrate them for a day... Teach someone to program, frustrate them for a lifetime."
Then why the hell are you browseing slashdot?
Eh.. You can pick purebred dogs out of a linup at most any pound. And I'm sure 99% of the pounds out there are going to waive the "neuter/spay and shots" fee when the guys wandering through the door are a bunch of monks.
Airplane? Woop. Was prolly a $4,000 ont time tax writeoff, and three guys in an antique Cessna probably works out cheaper than commercial, especially when all you're paying for is gas.
.sig: Now legally binding!
*ahem* it is the greek orthodox church, i believe that circumsized and baptizes.....not the catholics
*double ahem*, the greek orthodox church does not practice circumcision, and many (most?) greek orthodox males are uncircumcized. This is based only on circumstantial evidence.
Pun aside, it is the Jews who practice circumcision as a religious rite.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
This isn't true. Baptism is a public confirmation that you are a Christian. Jesus was baptised by John when he began his public ministry.
Paul refers to "spiritual circumcision" as the new "covenant"; in the OT/Hebrew bible, circumcision was the sign of the covenant (see Moses), but in the NT, Jesus' death is the final sacrifice for believers.
"In short, circumcisions are for the Jews, not Christians."
Paul distinctly says that circumcision is a non-issue in Christianity; it doesn't matter whether you're snipped or not.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
This isn't informative--it's mostly wrong. Catholics, as do most (all?) Christian denominations, do baptize. As for circumcision, it has its roots in Judaism and the bible, but is mentioned as being unnecessary in several places in the New Testament. I do believe the Catholic church discourages the practice. See here.
...from your client"
I wonder if this means that I should to go home and rethink my life...
This isn't true. Baptism is a public confirmation that you are a Christian. Jesus was baptised by John when he began his public ministry.
There was nothing wrong with my initial statement. In fact you make baptism sound more like a public show than the true act of a covenant with God that it is.
Paul refers to "spiritual circumcision" as the new "covenant"; in the OT/Hebrew bible, circumcision was the sign of the covenant (see Moses), but in the NT, Jesus' death is the final sacrifice for believers.
I don't know what church you belong to, but it is an accepted idea that baptism is the sign of a covenant between God replacing Jewish circumscision. I'm not sure what point that above statement tried to make. They are both true statements but disjointed in context with the topic of this off-topic dicussion.
"In short, circumcisions are for the Jews, not Christians."
Paul distinctly says that circumcision is a non-issue in Christianity; it doesn't matter whether you're snipped or not.
Again, my statement was not incorrect. I specifically said the Orthodox church doesn't care if you are circumcised, but some make note not to take the act of circumcision in a religious tone, because it no longer applies in Christianity.
I have no idea why you basically reiterated my entire comment.
Never test for an error condition you don't know how to handle. -- Steinbach (Might apply) I'm just an old nerd from before it had anything to do with computers. When I try to connect via:http://www.lasermonks.com/ I get this message: Access to this server is forbidden from your client What's with that?
"...while history is usually explicable it is often irrational" --Roger Spiller
1. The bible is not a fairy tale. It is put together as a collection of independant first hand accounts, not mythology.
Like all first hand accounts, it should be taken with a large grain of salt. Added to the fact that the source documents have been translated through several languages and heavily edited.
4. Many (most) important scientific discoveries throughout history have been made by Christians (Wright brothers...)
So what? what's this got to do with anything? It could be argued that these christians managed to make their discoveries despite their religion (think about the middle ages/renaissance when you could quite literally be burnt at the stake for challenging church beliefs, the earth is not flat and the world is not at the centre of the universe).
Many critical discoveries were made before christianity was of any note. Hippocrates, Pythagoras, Archimedes and Plato spring to mind.
5. Science has not explained many fundamental characteristics of the universe... and evolution doesn't fully explain how complex life developed. Science doesn't (yet) provide all the answers.
I'll take science over ignorance any day. How *exactly* has the theory of evolution not explained complex life developing?
If religion works for you, great. For me, religion represents an excuse not to take responsibility for ones own decisions and living a false reality where people are something other than smart primates.
Boy...that was fast. I guess ppl think they're being all religous buying their toner from monks.
Very few people are "uncircumcized", which is a difficult bit of plastic surgery The word is "intact".
Very few people are "uncircumcized", which is a difficult bit of plastic surgery The word is "intact".
/. poll?
Yes, my mistake with the terminology.
I believe your assertion that "very few" people are circumcized may apply only to the US. Many people outside the US are "intact". There is no medical reason why the procedure is performed - anyone who bathes on a regular or even semi-regular basis has nothing to worry about in the genital hygene dept.
Perhaps this is a new
- Yes, I've been cut.
- No, I'm all there.
- I'm female you jackass.
- I have no genitals you insensitive clod!.
-
Ok maybe not.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
The Catholic church has created many unbelievers. Don't let the evil one win - don't listen to what "the establishment" says. It's not the true church - the church is the body of believers. The truth is in the Bible.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Interestingly, what they're specialising in is the monk brand. They don't do any of the manufacture, and they outsource the fulfillment and the customer management too.
Now, all they need to do is learn from the other very old Christian tradition of excellent franchise management...
Shocking. Thank you.
DFL
Never send a human to do a machine's job.
religonis a product of love.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
1. You can trace the Bibl to its roots. Edited changes are known.
5. Theolistic evolution. Some small religous groups, such as the Catholic chruch, believe that it is possible the evolution was gods way of creating life.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Catholic school education
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
This turns out not to be the case. In the first place, you would have to say (on the basis of zero evidence) that John was a liar, since he explicitly claims to have been an eyewitness. In the second place, this late dating of the gospels is only "commonly accepted" by people who refuse to believe even the possibility that the content of the gospels is true: hardly an impartial audience.
More importantly, there is evidence to demonstrate that these naysayers don't know what they are talking about: namely, references to a parody of Matthew that was written by Gamaliel no later than 70AD.
Well, he couldn't have written a parody of a non-existent document. And he wouldn't have written a parody of a document that no one took seriously. And it would have been pointless to write a parody of a book so new that no one had heard of it. So it's entirely reasonable to suggest that Matthew wrote his gospel no later than 60AD. So in fact there is no reason whatever to pretend that it wasn't written by an eyewitness.
Now, with respect to Bible books as being universally firsthand accounts - that, of course, is a given: Moses, after all, lived millennia after the events recorded in the early chapters of Genesis; and as you rightly say, this fact doesn't mean that Genesis isn't true.
DFL
Never send a human to do a machine's job.
No, the Catholics tried to teach me Hypocrisy. They even told me how good it was when the Pope sent all those missionaries over to the new world to kill the central American Indians and loot their treasures... er, I mean save them from their heathen beliefs. But somehow the cult indoctrination didn't take, I now understand that any and all religions are the worst forms of evil.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
I can't tell if that was sarcastic or not. *laugh* I'll assume you were sincere.
Nah, truthfully, Catholicism played only a minor part in my coming not to believe. I stopped believing a long time ago (long before the sex abuse scandals, which ARE absolutely despicable) and examining parts of the Bible have only made my anti-religious temper worse.
Things just don't connect for me in (Christian) religion and the more I talk to people about it, the more I think I'm right. Nobody can even come up with the same story, for one; if I'm going to be wrong, I might as well be wrong this way! The entire concept of many religions, at its core, rubs me the wrong way.
If you believe, that's good. I hope you get something out of it that makes it valuable to me. Me, I don't, I never did.
DISCLAIMER: IMHO applies to entire comment :) This must be a difference between the Orthodox church and Protestantism. When a Protestant becomes a Christian, they enter into a covenant with God in much the same way that circumcision marked the covenant between a Jew and YHWH. Baptism is good, but it's not a sacrament as it is in the Orthodox church; baptism is an outward symbol of faith. While we're on the subject, communion/Eucharist is an inward symbol of faith, and so I would argue that, while it is good to partake of the Eucharist, it is not an essential element of Christianity.
Romans 10.9-10: "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." I really believe that Christianity is as simple as that - a simple verbal confession and the profound belief in Christ as Saviour. Again, IMHO.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
5. Holy Orders (when your calling in life is to molest a little boy, apparently)
Speaking as one who is applying to seminary to study for the Catholic priesthood, and on behalf of the 99.9% of Catholic priests who are all good, holy men, I must take exception to your hateful, prejudiced remark. I would tell you to crawl back under whatever rock you spawned from and die in your own filth, but that wouldn't be Christian of me.
Instead I'll forgive you and pray for your salvation . . . I somehow think that may be more beneficial to you in the long run.
Most of you have complained taht TV ebvangelists have begged for money. here are a bunch of Godly men who are working so they can help someone else! I say its great. They are making their own way and trying to offer everyone a good deal on stuff people actually need.
Help these guys out and I bet they even bless the toner. you will notice they dont hit you up for an offering to pray for you. They pray for you because they love God and they care.
Intact, uncut, circumcised, uncircumcised, whatever. My favorite way to characterize it is: do you have an anteater, or a helmet?
I just looked up the cartridge for my printer, at least, (A Samsung ML-1710 - the cheapest laser printer money can buy) and found them for $40 more than I can get them with a simple Froogle search. Similarly scaled differences on a few other random cartridges I searched for.
Nice domain name, though.
Philip Sandifer's academic website
DISCLAIMER: IMHO applies to entire comment
I would agree that we may be treading on the fundamental differences between Orthodox (and Catholicism) vs. Protestantism and this is not the forum for discussion (or arguing) of the differences.
I can say IMHO as well, that while it is true that a verbal confessional and inward belief is integral, it is only part of the story. The rest of it relies on constantly repenting sins, and the doing of good works. Thought and action.
Also, a vital aspect of Orthodox theology is the concept of Theosis. It is a strong concept with subtleties that can be easily misconstrued. The link states it clearly I think.
Catholics, as do most (all?) Christian denominations, do baptize.
Quakers don't. I think they're the only one that comes to mind that doesn't.
rumor i heard was that the Philosophy department was mad that this uppity Mathematician was talking about celestial bodies and trying to usurp their top slot on the academic ladder and they sicced the church at Galileo to knock him down a peg.
also heard Galileo's models were less accurate than Ptolemaic models used by the Vatican observatory (he assumed circular, not elliptical orbits). so he had this theory that didn't fit the evidence as well as the Ptolemaics' and the papists rejected it for that reason (among others).
happily, Galileo taught the church a valuable lesson in biblical hermeneutics: that of phenomenological language. the narrative describes phenomena and not underlying mechanisms. thus, when the weatherman says sun-rise, we know he's speaking phenomologically and not asserting geocentricity.
mod me down for being off topic. mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa maxima.
HIs ways are mysterious...
This comment does not exist.
Monks aren't priests.
That is all.
I just found this comment - I have trolled many, many times but never bothered with a cut n paste or a page widener. Why do you think the inclusion of my login name in the cut n paste means I posted it? I am WELL KNOWN for ALWAYS trolling as myself, and I take it as an insult that I'd be assumed liliy-livered enough to post ANYTHING as an AC.
I have nothing to hide, save my email address.
I can't prove that I didn't do the page widener, but my posting history speaks for itself, I will post whatever garbage and insults come into my head, I have no fear of moderation.
That was classic intercourse!
This recalls an interesting 1996 article from Wired Magazine, called "The Electronic Scriptorium". It discussed the efforts of Religious as transcriptionists, and web page designers.
It's Protestants who claim evolution is a lie, and the Earth is 6,000 years old. Catholics believe that evolution and the Big Bang are the most likely explanations for why we are here, they accept that Genesis is a metaphor.
A. Rightmann
When I first read Lasermonks, I imagined monks shooting laser beams from their index fingers to kill sinners.
Sort of an Inquisition from a post-apocalyptic 25th century.
I've seen too much japanese movies... Hehe...
Ah, but do they support Diablo printers?
It was YOU wasn't it?
Why do you post as an AC? Don't you realise that your Slashdot username and it's associated karma is NOT a respected or valued commodity?
That was classic intercourse!
Y'know what? You have faith in God. I have faith in God. That's good enough for me :) It was nice to meet you; I hope to run into you again someday ;)
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
If you can handle satire, see my suffer the Usenetter prayer.
There are many varieties of Bhuddhism. Some of them are religions (Tibetan Bhuddism comes to mind).
Bhuddhist philosophy (which is not a religion) does not require you believe anything without proof - in fact it encourages you to take a personal journey in order to prove to yourself, on your own terms, that the Eightfold Path does in fact lead to enlightenment.
You might be familiar with the Rinzai teaching, "If you meet the Bhuddha in the road, kill him!" or the more commonly used "the finger pointing at the moon is not the moon". Both of these are exhortations to the listener to directly experience Bhuddhism (in this case Zen flavor) rather than placing faith in teachers or teachings.
Although your comment can be applied to most forms of christianity, there are plenty of religions that don't require any specific belief system.
Read "The White Goddess" by Robert Graves. Read the Unitarian Universalist Principles. Read "Introduction to Bhuddism". Read the Tao Te Ching and the Lieh Tzu. If you make it through all that and you aren't either convinced or sound asleep, read George Fraser's "Golden Bough" (which is a sure-fire soporific).
Saint Augustine's argument from faith is not the only Christian "proof" either. It's just the most popular these days. Some people prefer the famous ontological proof from Rene Descartes' "Meditations on First Philosophy" (which is a hell of a lot more readable than Fraser, Graves, or Augustine).
*** read the sources *** instead of asking some slashbot you don't even know to tell you what Descartes wrote!
Before water was pasteurized, people all over the world have known for a long time that a small amount of alcohol would kill most of the bacteria in the water.
Of course they didn't know about bacteria. They just knew that water+wine would keep you less sick than just water.
Even so, certainly no Prohibition in the New Testament. Cheers!
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
"We specialize in ink for Brother printers."
Everybody needs something to believe in,
So I believe I'll have another beer...
There's a very well-known beer in Germany, Kloster Andechs beer, that's made by Benedictine monks at a monastery in Bavaria.
i n.asp
The monks use their brewery and beer-making skills to support themselves and their monastery. It's become such huge business for them, that they now employ many non-monks from the surrounding area.
Here's their website:
http://www.andechs.de/englisch/index_ma
Fair enough. :-)
Nice meeting you too.
Don't mind the slashdotters, pretty sure most of them are crazy.
Mind you, so am I, so who knows...
In July O7, I got a mac pro. There's no punchline. Just endless joy and wonder.
If I happen to be a naturalist/atheist/freethinker/Bright (take your pick) or maybe even just a Mormon or Scientologist, would it be a conflict of belief - would I be a hypocrite - for buying product from these guys, knowing that after a fashion some of the money might be used to indoctrinate others with a message of conviction contrary to my own?