Slashdot Mirror
Wireless Street Lamps for Traffic Monitoring
RMH101 writes "The Register has a story about a UK initiative to create a country-wide wireless data network using street lamps. It's come to pass through a government initiative to monitor all cars' speed and location, all the time, everywhere. The company involved, Last Mile, are proposing an intelligent mesh of smart street lamps embedded with storage and wireless networking to create 200MBit network access across the UK, including remote areas not reachable by conventional broadband. Work is due to start this year."
... someone hacks in the system and makes the local police think that you are doing 150 mph with your 2 CV?
Iraq: war to save the U
Just wait until criminals and/or bored kids know where these things are embedded... the metal box they're going to need to protect it from damage is probably going to block any chance of a wireless signal from coming out ;-)
While this sounds like a cool idea, I see too much room for abuse... Besides, they're using it to track all this traffic activity... do you want to use the government's internet connection so they can track that part of your life, too?
http://www.babysmasher.com
http://www.openingbands.com
Gods and fishes! Somebody get me some aspirin!
The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer. - Albert Einstein
Is there anything left in the UK that isn't being monitored? Cameras on all the streets, in the stores and now wireless monitoring your speed. Bye bye 2004, hello 1984.
I'm sure all the cars going the wrong way would easily crash the software.
As member of a rural area desperatly waiting for broadband, I see one big problem with the plan; most rural areas don't have streetlights!
The real question is, once installed, will they charge for access?
This is a privacy issue, not a technology issue. This would allow the police to track your car all over the country.
Trolling is a art,
in streetlights? Does that make any sense to anyone? Considering that most street lights are meant to snap off their bases if enough force is applied to them, it just doesn't seem like the ideal location for that type of hardware.
But man, talk about scary big brother tactics: "a government initiative to monitor all cars' speed and location, all the time, everywhere"
Casual Games/Downloads
I'm guessing that war driving will get *really* easy after this... It will probably increase the number of "war walkers" as well, and I'd bet we'd even start to see "war sitters" on the curbs! ;)
libertarianswag.com
War darkening
All brit's posting to slashdot have officially lost the right to make references to the U.S. being an orwellian, facist state in comparison to their own.
You guys seem to have so many cameras and tracking systems going in that country of yours you probably enjoy the privacy offered by Las Vegas casinos.
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
Only 20 years later.
Do people really put up with this? If this were implemented in the US, it would be 5 seconds flat til that network was cut into 500 million pieces.
people in the UK always get the cool stuff. We need projects like this in the US.
"Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect." Linus Torvalds
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Aren't we coming pretty close to 1984?
At least the surveilliance part of that dystopian society.
//Wegge
Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
Yes a wi-fi network would be nice, but hardly essential. Lets face it , as they say the real use is for car control, which as we know is a
euphamism for population control. Obviously the powers that be have decided that controlling a car is too dangerous a task for adults to be left with and must be relegated to a computer controlled government
network. Well no thank you! If I wanted to live in this sort of country I'd have gone to live in the old East Germany which modern britain is fast beginning to resemble. how long before we have
government schemes for informants?
Tracking vehicles is a great way to detect traffic jams. If the vehicles moving past one sensor do not reach the next sensor in a reasonable amount of time, you know you have a problem. The linked research suggests that tracking vehicles through the network enables a faster detection time for problems (faster than waiting for the traffic to clog and backup to where the sensor is located.)
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
holy christ i hope this never happens in the united states. RFID tags on license plates, convicted felon tracking, always-on monitoring. feh. oh boy, wireless everywhere. but the price is just too awful to consider.
"It's OK, my sheet's got a hole in it!"
The UK has always been the frontrunner for the "First To Develop Oppressive Panopticon" raspberry award. The network of public CC cameras there is mind-boggling.
..."professional women" with wirless enabled PDAs? Possible slogan: "The newest technology for the world's oldest profession." ;)
libertarianswag.com
Forget Macbeth... wouldn't you tune in to the news for a rendition of Behind the Green Door on a traffic cam?
The CB App. What's your 20?
the metal box they're going to need to protect it from damage is probably going to block any chance of a wireless signal from coming out
:) Not the easiest place to gain access too.
That's why you put the antenna on the outside...
Street lights are what, 15-20 feet tall? (5-6 meters for our European friends
Casual Games/Downloads
The phone boxes and transformers hanging on poles havent become targets yet and they have been readily available for quite a few decades.
Now of course those arent being used to track movements and issue speeding tickets but I wonder how many criminals will even pay attention to them after 5-10 years. How often do you notice the telephone boxes sitting out in plain site that you could hack/crack/vandalize?
True. But they do not harm people. The traffic cameras/CCD cameras that do harm people are attacked/damaged quite often.
"to monitor all cars' speed and location, all the time, everywhere." Sure, I'd like the government to know where I go all the time... an monitor my speed limit... Although that there are some good points to implementing such a system...
DrkBr
Learn to spell Captain!
here.
monitor all cars' speed and location, all the time, everywhere
The UK gov has an obsession with monitoring it's citizens. London already has more CCTV than any other capital. On average you're court on camera 300 times a day.
I expect their excuse is to improve road safety. The real reason is so they can issue more speeding tickets and increase the number of tolls.
The UK Motorist already pays 3 taxes to use the roads. Duty at the gas pump, Road Tax and tolls to use public roads in the form of the London congestion charge.
Hummm, I believe I made this prediction WAY back when... So if this network were public and open, why pay for cellular service? Is it going to be 802.11G? What if we put these monitering devices in pets, on childrens wrists... I'm full of ideas today. Blanket High-speed Wireless = Killer ap.
It's really not - the UK has the highest incidence of CCTV cameras in the world.
1: Goverment masturbate over new interconnected data paradigm that can enable key economic resource in an efficient manner.
2: Project is funded.
3: Press release about how the government is promoting small business.
4: Funding is approved.
5: Press release about how great the goverment is.
6: Work starts.
7: Press release about how the government gets things done!
8: BT and NTL realise how much money this will lose them, hands cash in brown envelopes to MPs.
9: Press release about our existing world-class interenet infrastructure that was pushed through by government.
10: Project cancelled.
11: Profit! (For existing telcos, the bastards.)
For pessamists, no ??? is required. We know that step, and it's bloody awful.
Beep beep.
It's not too far from what Ricochet had in place. Just add a few sensors to Ricochet boxes and it would almost be the same thing.
"Want in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up first." - My Dad
Okay, so every other site I read uses VBCode and I keep forgetting that Slashdot uses proper HTML. What preview button?
The summary of this article is a bit loaded...the tracking all cars all the time thing is one possible use of the technology, but many others are detailed in the article. I really like the idea that the streetlamps will eventually drive your cars for you. Like what Homer Simpson wants from cruise control.
While it can be nice to feel safe in city centres, it's bloody annoying being watched constantly.
The government had planned to implement toll charges on every road by tracking every car. You'd be charged more on busy roads at peak times.
That's incredible privacy invasion. Bastards.
In a previous life tempest emmisions were old news and shielding buildings and equipment was commonplace.
;-)
So I start a website selling nice decorative or transparent license plate borders that could shield or obfuscate and RFID signal and make $ of poor brits yearning to be free?.. I love being american
But seriously, I see a need for people to start developing counter-measures for consumers. Anyone have ideas?
Knowing where specific cars are going, and
careful control of traffic signals (causing
jams and easy ways out, etc), Big Brother can
guide the double plus ungood thinking people
to his feeding ducts.
No wonder the staff of the Death Star all have
British accents!
There was a report recently that stated that something like 1 in 5 miles of road in the UK was in such a poor state that it was unfit to drive on. How about they drop this idea for the moment and fill some potholes instead?
Some councils actually spend more money setting compensation claims from car owners who have had accidents due to poor roads than they do actually maintaining them.
Anyway, with a decent network in place, perhaps we'd need to use them less anyway!
You fool! You've given cheese to a lactose intolerant volcano god! Do you know what that means?
It seems to me that the British Government has way too much time on it's hands and is in need of downsizing and budget cuts.
It sounds like someone went for those X10 cameras from the pop-under ads.
This just sounds like such a bad idea. Why would you want this? It spies on citizens as well as will probably put law enforcement officers out of work.
See the Pictures of the Flood of '08
Just who do you think gave the world the USA?
It's come to pass
Lurchio? Lurchio!
insightfull, i think. except it's hard to hide under a streetlight while phreaking. though it wouldn't be phreaking i guess. is there a term for wireless "phreaking". well i guesss if it's wireless you wouldn't need to be next/under it, just near it maybe.
How much is it going to cost to put a wireless network box in every street lamp?
Plus what about actually solving the issues in routing data from a lampost in scotland to one in london?
I think it would be tempting to hack off a few street lamps and go wireless at home. Isn't it a bit expensive to put it in the streets? At least here in Spain I'm worry to think they wouldn't see the month finish before someone stole them and sold them.
DON'T PANIC
But the constant monitoring by the streetlamps is for our own safety, lest we succumb to breaking the law.
All brit's posting to slashdot have officially lost the right to make references to the U.S. being an orwellian, facist state in comparison to their own.
Surely, brother, we shouldn't make such references to our beloved state. The principles of INGSOC must be upheld in all aspects of life.
To do otherwise is CRIMETHINK. Please report to room 101 for re-education.
Initially, this could be implemented as a stipulation for your car to pass its MOT (MOT is the UK roadworthiness annual).
Then the police could check for the presence and operation of the device during road-side checks.
*So* Here's the trick - find its frequency and build yourself a nice little signal generator/transmitter to put out static at a higher power than the government device. (Duh, that was easy).
The thing that really upsets me about this is that you can almost guarantee the government will require car-owners to buy these units out of their own pockets.
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
People said that about all our speed cameras (they'd get torn down, or vandalised, etc). Most of 'em still stand though, happily snapping at the passing motorists.
Craig
Most people don't have the truck/cones/equipment to do this and remain camouflaged. This isn't a problem with wireless. Sit in the coffee shop with your laptop and hack away in perfect safety.
This is the UK: they don't have transformers hanging on poles outside their homes like in N. America. Most cables are buried. N. American streets seem very cluttered to the eyes of a Briton due to the number of poles and cables everywhere, especially in more urban areas (like the street I live on in Toronto). I do remember seeing British Telecom boxes around, and hearing stories of phreakers taking advantage of them.
The UK seems to be filled with obnoxious youths intent on damaging everything. Get a new car: expect somebody to run their key along it. Put something nice outside your house: expect it to be stolen, vandalised, or pissed on. I remember being an arsehole at the age of 18: running pissed through people's daffodils kicking them everywhere, or running car dealerships over each car to set the alarm off. We used to come out of the pub and have pissing competitions on the windows of the glass office block (Equitable Life headquaters) across the road. And I wasn't a real arsehole compared with a lot of people I knew or saw.
Most of this behaviour just doesn't seem to happen in N. America, or at least here in Canada. Thank goodness.
You see, in the UK you can do that, and then request from whoever owns the camera that they send you the footage (for a small administration fee). That's the law over here, and people have done what you've suggested before ;) Mark Thomas springs to mind.
The queue for those of you still in denial forms below this message.
When people drive they accept the laws of the road. Why are they always so upset every time there's an initiative to stop people speeding?
So I'm a biased pedestrian, but it does seem to me that given the hundreds of car fatalities that occur *every day*, monitoring what people do so that the drivers who "get away" with dangerous driving are caught is a good thing.
You might get away with dangerous driving. But the longer you do, the more dangerous you'll get. And then you're putting people's lives at risk.
Maybe you can justify breaking the law when it comes to software. I'm sorry, you can't justify driving dangerously.
Ever.
Awesome! Those brits think of everything!
The CB App. What's your 20?
If it's using 802.11b then it'd be easy to amp the hell out of an AP, install a 12VDC to 120VAC converter in your car and screw with the nearest tracking device.
Treadmill sales have skyrocketted among conspiracy theorists.
"I used to sit in front of the computer all day," says Richard Consen. "Researching all the latest conspiracy theories and then BAM! It hit us. The big one."
Psychological experts agree that as privarcy goes down, wackos who are obsessed with privacy and conspiracies will are moving towards better fitness.
"Mr. Linux Universe is not far off, it's quite ironic really, it's these guys who make the technology but then end up complaining about it when their former-jock CEO's fire them and end up retiring at 35." Says former Psychologist expert Dr. David Homberg (recently fired due to the extensive use of "wacko" in his dealings with patients).
The Treadmill Inc. company ended at $24.12 at the end of the day, up by $24.11.
I think it's worth noting that anyone attempting to vandalize a transformer has a good chance of becoming a crispy-critter. This could explain why people (for the most part) seem to leave them alone.
Your point still stands though. There is plenty of other much less dangerous electrical equipment that somehow avoids the vandals. (Traffic lights, for example, will phone home of their box is tampered with)
— darco
Interesting usage of the word "harm" . . .
Do you have to carry insurance? Do you have to have a cyclist license? No?
THEN GET THE FUCK OFF THE ROADWAYS!
Lawyers use 'harm' to describe a loss of money all the time. He's not the first person to abuse the term, which should only be comparable to real, actual pain.
I, for one, accept our new streetlamp leaders.
They also wish to use nets like these to charge people for each mile driven. And the price will vary depending on the time of day
Yes! An example is this proposed one. And car insurance by the mile exists right now. I, too, have heard of car insurance schemes that would charge different rates for driving at different times of day(but this is the only link I found on it.)
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Except for you, agent Smith.
Wireless connection on major highways... a great innovation. However, it worries me. Ever been in the fast-lane following some dunce going 50mph because she's chatting on her cell phone and has forgotten where she is? Now we'll have people playing Solitaire, checking email, and God Forbid... posting to SlashDot. Is the world ready for this?
back in high school, my friends and i caused a large-ish blackout (~15,000 ppl IIRC) by mixing a pole transformer, a ruger 10/22 and a brick of 550 .22 rounds. We got through about six or seven clips...then the transfomer started making horrific noises and spewing a stream of flaming oil, and the lights all around went out. needless to say, we got out of there pretty quick. posted anon for obvious reasons...
Since these boxes are designed to communicate, it would be simple to have them send a "Help I'm being vandalized!" message.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
The first thing I'd like to know is how much popular support there is for this initiative (a word that hides a multitude of sins)? I assume that there must be a good bit since MPs do like to get elected. Second what is the cause of the popular support? Does Britain have a run-away traffic death rate or something like that? Curious.
Adelaide, Australia is already using its' street light infrastructure to support a municipal wireless network ("citilan") in the central business district:
Community Broadband Networks:
"City of Adelaide to offer wireless broadband downtown"
MuniWireless.com:
"Adelaide hotzone is up and running"
Al Bonnyman
Community Broadband Networks
What do you expect? The average school student in the UK takes hundreads of exams. School is _really_ boring. All you do is revise stuff and sometimes go a little more deep in the subject of one thing.
The teachers are in immense pressure to get grades that are acceptable so this is the only way.
I'm a straight A student and _I_ find it boring. So I can't imagine how boring it must be for students who are less say, less talented.
> Street lights are what, 15-20 feet tall? (5-6 meters for our European friends
Ha! I see where people have left their tennis shoes up there all the time.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I come from the point of view that people have way too much freedom for the current population density (I'm in the US, UK is more dense I think). Freedom to smoke around others outside, speed, fly noisy planes above hikers, ride noisy motorcycles, buy vehicles with ridiculously high fuel consumption, and the list goes on and on.
But this sounds stupid to me. If we as a society are going to invest in traffic systems, we should be moving to direct car control. All cars x years from now (between 5 and 10) should be equipped with electronics to read a signal from a painted road or a wireless sign, whichever design is cheaper, that prevents them from ever going faster than the speed limit (I guess an override button that can be pressed occasionally for passing on two lane roads could be available, this button wouldn't even work on the expressway).
There are several advantages to this strategy:
1] Fewer traffic police and fewer interactions with traffic police (which always leave a bad taste in my mouth) which unnecessarily creates an antagonistic relationship between the populace and the police.
2] Since everyone will be going the speed limit, traffic will flow smoothly. Some cars and trucks may not be able to do the speed limit, but overall the effect will definitely improve throughput (I live in Los Angeles, so this is a primary concern of mine).
3] If the speed limit is too low for a given road, everyone will be so pissed, they will lobby to get it raised instead of just speeding 10 mph which everyone does now (which also sets a bad precedent that it is OK to break the law since everyone else is doing it).
Of course ultimately, a driverless vehicle is even better - no stress, you can sleep or read, but this is technologically much harder.
Dara Parsavand
dparsavand@mailblocks.com
1) Monitor cars
2) ?????
3) PROFIT!!!!
The days of the american rebel are long gone.
The days of the publicly visible american rebel are long gone. Thousands of protesters appear outside government functions, but aren't given much mainstream press. Hundreds of journalists strongly critisize government policy, but none are given much visibility. A few Senators work very hard to prevent unjust laws from being passed, but aren't taken seriously.
The problem is the few ultra-rich corporations, including the mainstream press, work together with the government. The press avoids displaying many acts of rebellion. The press used to show what was important for people to know. Now they display what they think entertains people.
Don't think we're all sheep behind would-be dictator Bush. Many of our voices aren't made public and therefore aren't loud enough. As tracking techniques are increasing use in the US many are fighting against it, but few protesters will ever be seen on the nightly news.
Developers: We can use your help.
This reminds me of the idea I had for a case mod a few months ago. A storm knocked down a lamp post and I acquired the light fixture. I thought of turning it into a case mod, but only after deciding I had no use for it and giving it to a friend. He's since put it in his room as the world's largest "reading lamp."
I wish I'd turned it into a computer so that i could say 'hey look at my website! I already have one of these in my room!'
- "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
street lamps ... or, "telephone poles" as we know them here in the US.
Well, whats the point of creating a wireless network using telephone poles, when the fucking telephone poles already carry wires.
"Well Bob, you see, there are these things called 'wires' that run between the street lamps."
"Ok Bill, can we do stuff with these 'wires'?"
"I don't know Bob. We might have to go wireless."
Scratch your head and run, it's safer that way.
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
I wish that were true, but some people just haven't figured out it's a bad idea yet.
However, it is correct that cameras garner far more hatred. Also, some more amusing moments.
Yes, but you learn things, unlike in American schools where you could sleep all day and get straight As (trust me, I did). Nowadays I go to a British-run international school, and the GCSE program is infinitely better than the US one if you're actually interested in learning something.
I remember when CC cameras were introduced to the UK and laughed thinking that it would never happen here in the US. Then after 9/11, my fellow citizens were screaming for more "security" and government was more than happy to oblige. Give it 5 years and you will see this crap in the US, for our "safety" of course.
THIS is the reason I own firearms, THIS is the same reason our Founding Fathers owned firearms - to hold off a tyrannical government. Unfortunately, the British people have given up their rights to defense.
"old lamps for new"
:-P
sorry... couldn't be helped. Impulse posting. Yeah, its OT
sad robot making broken music
Both are control freaks, the irony being that the Labour party is supposed to be the left wing power to the people party with the Conservatives traditionally being the right wing fascists.
They are truly Orwellian politicians, 2 + 2 = 5, "New Labour" is left wing.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Been going on here in Oregon, USA for years.
Check it out
Pretty Pictures!
And I don't see anything in it that talks about monitoring "all cars' speed and location, all the time, everywhere" - not even in the Register article, and they're famous for being as cynical about things as humanly possible.
All this is for is traffic monitoring with respect to jams and accidents, and advising drivers of changes to speed limits, potential problems, and so on.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Let's just say he enjoys taking his vehicle out for a spin across neighboring farmers' lands... ever heard of a crop circle? Crop doughnuts? Crop drag racing? Tractor slalom? All good fun on other people's land.
But don't worry, you're still not going to be caught.
True story.
I've often wondered "What if bureaucrats could have *everything* they ever wanted?" What if they actually could know everything about everyone as if webcams were everywhere? Would they be satisfied? What does it take to satisfy?
Somehow, I doubt it would be enough for them; the shock value would wear off and they would need an ever-more sexual/violent/twisted "movie".
Besides, they *still* wouldn't feel like they have real control over it; perhaps they should be trying to control themselves?
C|N>K
Of course, if you look at snopes.com, you will find that a significant percentage of the stories on the Darwin Awards site are always hoaxes.
And that theme song in which the words could be changed to "Muppet Babies, we show our weens to you"...
Simply sad..I pine for a simpler day.
Your Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH and DENNIS.
>_
Why don't build this system so it can be used
as Wi-Fi access points, and celluar service for
"fringe" areas?
Having lived in the UK all my life I can assure you that this isn't the case.
You sound like a one man crime wave.
Possibly because you've grown up since you've moved to Canada. It sounds to me like you're projecting your own youthful idiocy onto an entire nation.
The forced taking of money from someone could be called harm. One can not call it theft because it is done in an legal way, but that does not make it less harmful.
:
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
Harm \Harm\, n. [OE. harm, hearm, AS. hearm; akin to OS. harm,
G. harm grief, Icel. harmr, Dan. harme, Sw. harm; cf. OSlav.
& Russ. sram' shame, Skr. crama toil, fatigue.]
1. Injury; hurt; damage; detriment; misfortune.
2. That which causes injury, damage, or loss.
ALL large aircraft are controlled by computers for landings, ( ie. ILS ).
why can't 'Last Mile' submit a plan for a 'city driving router', (CDR)?
the CDR would control the accelerator, brake, and steering wheel of all vehicles in the city limits.
if a person wants to use the city's streets, the driver has to flip to the car's CDR mode when entering city limits. BMW has been working on this since 1998, this is not science fiction, its already in beta.
if i could get into my car, type in my destination, let the car drive me to work; now i can make better use of my time by grousing, laughing, and interrupting while reading 'slashdot'.
Only 7% of accidents have anything at all to do with speeding. It's a damned near insignificant number.
The other *93%* of accidents are caused by shit driving which can't be monitored by speed cameras or wireless street lights.
The accident rate in the UK was falling steadily *until* the police and local government started installing thousands of speed cameras everywhere. It is no longer falling because now shit driving is OK as long as you don't go 5mph over the bloody limit.
I break the speed limit *every* single day but I don't drive dangerously. Speeding and dangerous driving are *not* the same thing.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Start walking instead of driving.
Don't go to a brothel if you want to buy broth
I don't know of any laws out now that prevent you from 'not being seen'.
Wow...Python had it right decades ago...it IS best 'not to be seen'....hehehe
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I bet those antennas would make a nice little target for some kid with a bb gun.... :)
Place sig here.
Not when I went through the system. I finished my A-levels more than 10 years ago (FWIW, I have 5). GCSE's were piss-easy (I got 5 As and 5 Bs without revision, including French taken a year early, and Geology with just a years study). It was fairly hard and challenging, especially taking Maths A-Level in 1 year, and a Further Maths A-level in 1 year.
Maybe there is more revision and exams now, I don't know because I emmigrated in the early 90s. I can see how the amount of learning I had to do would be boring some people - but let's be honest, I learnt a lot and was probably 2-3 years ahead of my peers in the US when I lived there.
School has always been boring to many people. If you can think of a better way to get people up to the standards required, then good luck to you. But I suspect that you will just introduce another fad like phonetic teaching that suits you but doesn't work for the majority.
So no, my obnoxious behaviour was nothing to do with school. In fact, I quite liked school, although I too got bored when I found it took no effort to be top of the year in physics. You're probably bored because you're finding it too easy - but's that a very different argument, which comes back to "are the standards getting lower?" I think they are because even in my day I found old O and A level papers much harder, and I really don't believe the increasing number of high grades indicates smarter people or a more successful education system.
I wouldn't block my rfid, I'd steal my neighbor's. Or change it every N seconds.
Typos... that's just how I role.
The people who think of this MUST be on crack or something. Why is it on this island that they have these strange ideas? After the BIG numbers of CCTV systems we get an idea like THIS? Big Brotha'? Anyone remember?
Next thing you know, we'll all be wearing microchips in our wrists so the government knows exactly where we are, who we're with, etc. Oh won't that be fun.
That's exactly why it is funny... Then again, I don't live there...
I bet those antennas would make a nice little target for some kid with a bb gun
Yeah they'd make a great target. Extremely difficult to hit, and wouldn't matter at all if they did get hit.
Casual Games/Downloads
In the US (at least on the Interstate Hwy, and in many states) the speed limit is required to be set based on 'traffic studies' of the average speed cars actualy drive at.
So when you see those little rubber hoses that they run across the road to take the measurements with remember to make sure you speed up so that you help boost the average
-jon
This is just the kind of dumb attitude that kills people. As a biased pedestrian/cyclist, I'd like to see drivers stick to the speed limit.
You're right in the observation that shit driving is a problem. Shit driving causes accidents, speed decides the result. If you drive into me slowly, I might bounce off the road. If you hit me fast, game over.
The really dangerous drivers are the ones who think they're safe driving fast. But I'm sure you're not one of those...
...and you don't have a constitution.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."
The British don't see things this way, and they don't have constitutionally guaranteed rights -- they don't even have a constitution (you can take your basic laws and stick it -- it's NOT a constitution). And they're not even CITIZENS, they're SUBJECTS.
Remember, we fought a *war* with the British over these ideas about rights and government. Thankfully we won.
Well, Douglas Hurd (Home Secretary) at the time did describe my home town (Aylesbury) as the lager lout capital of Europe. I do remember being more frightened driving through Dunstable at closing time though.
Anyway, I don't think things have changed. I've just spent a month in the UK. My aunt in Plymouth had just decided to get a used car instead of new because she didn't want it scratched up in the church car park. A friend in Milton Keynes was telling me how he doesn't like going in to the city centre anymore due to all the fights at closing time. Similar stories from a friend from Sheffield. I was kicked in the head and sent for 6 on New Year's Eve for asking a girl why she was crying. If I still lived in the UK, I would have been asking the police to pull the CCTV tapes, and been happy that the cameras were there. People just aren't happy there. I never see any of the aggro here in Canada - people are just happier and more laid back. There are a couple of more stories, but I need to work...
This survelliance, or 'eye in the sky' can be used to pick you out of a crowd, and track your movements, habits, etc. This is none of anyone's business, especially the government's. That is what makes it different.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
After they install the motion sensor network they will install high power kW lasers on each lightpost so they can blind/disable anyone at will. This will enable the government ultimate control over its citzens thereby furthering the goals of the New World Order of domination & control. The motion sensor network will be replaced by a behavior sensor network which will track citizens perceived behavior at all times. Any citizen whose movement is irregular or percieved to be illegal in any way will be physically disabled by the high power lasers embedded in each device. Oh, what a wonderful future we have in store for us.
Freedom to smoke around others outside, speed, fly noisy planes above hikers, ride noisy motorcycles, buy vehicles with ridiculously high fuel consumption, and the list goes on and on.
What are you still in grade school or something?? Step out of your bubble...
Fly noisy planes above hikers??? My aren't you self-centered. Stop crying about your own wants, and think about someone else for a change. We all have complaints, but this is what freedom is all about. There will be things we like and dislike, but you can't just ban what you dislike.
Heck, there's probably someone out there wishing to ban you from hiking, because it promotes erosion and litering.
Probably someone who wants to ban the books you read because of the smut, or violence it promotes.
Step out of your bubble and realize that the world isn't here to cater to you, but to everyone.
If someone can afford to drive a 1 Mile per Gallon car, then so be it. They can afford it. Hey, more gas taxes to the state and more money towards education right?
Well, then you're doing exactly the opposite of me. I drive dangerously, but rarely speed. It's a lot more fun that way, and in my f*cking country there are too many f*cking cameras to be speeding.
Speed limits have recently been drastically lowered as well. Number of accidents have stayed at roughly the same number, but are less serious. All a reported officially and by the media. I haven't seen insurance rates going down, though. Strange.
I expect the number of accidents to rise within 5-10 years as new drivers, who do not have the reflexes and insight learned by driving at the older, higher speed limits, enter traffic.
Once that happens, speed limits will be lowered yet again. Ad nauseam.
Maybe there is a correlation betwixt a government that wants to do everything from wipe your ass to be your mommy that is causing such problems. The government of GB gives me the willies looking out for its' citizens rights even beyond what they want. Big brother is alive and well in the British Isles and sprouting in America as well :(
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
When people drive they accept the laws of the road. Why are they always so upset every time there's an initiative to stop people speeding? So I'm a biased pedestrian, but it does seem to me that given the hundreds of car fatalities that occur *every day*, monitoring what people do so that the drivers who "get away" with dangerous driving are caught is a good thing. You might get away with dangerous driving. But the longer you do, the more dangerous you'll get. And then you're putting people's lives at risk.
Maybe you can justify breaking the law when it comes to software. I'm sorry, you can't justify driving dangerously.
1. I drive like a demon.
2. I have never EVER been the driver in a car accident. EVER.
3. If it's 3AM and I have to hang a left at a light and I can see that there isn't a car for miles, I'm going to blow off the light, because sitting there is a waste of gas.
4. There is a stop sign near my house. It was instituted because of "class reasons" - it's the outlet to one of those stupid snooty neighbourhoods that has its anglophilic name inscribed on obelisks. I have seen someone come out of there exactly 6 times in the 5 years I've driven past that intersection. I don't stop at that stop sign. I slow down enough to get a good look at who or what is coming, but otherwise, I roll on it.
5. I take my daughter to school everyday. The lights are so poorly timed that in order to make them all, you have to drive over the speed limit (but not much over - 5 - 8 mph is about perfect.) So, I drive 5 - 8 mph over the limit, and I shave a solid 6 minutes off that drive. (I measured).
6. Sometimes I drive to LA,and take the 5. The speed limit is 75, but everyone drives 80+. This sucks when the weather is bad (I DON'T speed when the weather is bad or the traffic is heavy - that's just stupid) but when the weather is good and the traffic is light, I'll do 80 - 95, depending.
People like you deserve no liberty or freedom, because you so willingly surrender your personal authority and that of others to a government agency.
I think this idea of traffic lights monitoring traffic is a supremely bad idea, and I for one would cheerfully sabotage them if possible.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
... they'll run the whole system on SCO Unix.
unless you mean the ones with the silly plastic pellets
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
You'd be suprised - the current speed camera's are about 3m tall and I've seen films of people deliberately smashing them with their (presumably stolen) vehicles. I've even seen someone rip the camera off the pole with a JCB.
I've seen a few people paintballing the lenses too. I guess a nice thick metal box with a solid antenna on top will survive, but anything less is doomed from the start.
although the debate goes on in the chamber, it is not where the decisions are made
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I, for one, welcome our new small-to-medium enterprise overlords...
Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, Never drive a car when you're dead
That would be cool though, continuous 802.11 connectivity on and near every street in the country.
Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
The proposal doesn't say it's for additional monitoring: it's to replace the network used for the existing monitoring and other services. i.e. CCTV cameras on busy roads monitoring traffic flow; emergency telephones; variable traffic signs.
Whilst such a network could be used as part of a comprehensive traffic monitoring system that would require some sort of transponder in every vehicle, or a lot more cameras scanning (increasiongly false or obscured) licence plates.
As a habitual speeder, (only joking, officer) I wouldn't be keen on that sort of thing, but it hasn't come to that, yet. Of course the bastard Blunkett would love it - and not just for traffic offences.
every accident I've had was non-speed related. The one that was my fault (in 20 years) was me not paying attention while I was going slower than the speed limit. When I speed, I always pay close attention to everything. The ones that were not my fault also had nothing to do with speeding. They were the other drivers not looking before they turned.
Related to this: all of the speeding tickets I received (5 in 20 years?) were when I was barely going over the speed limit--many of them were speed traps. In each case, there was absolutely nothing unsafe about my speed. A couple of times I beat the ticket by going to court (because the cops were too embarrassed/busy to show up to defend the ticket).
Great idea, but whilst we're making them smart could we not also upgrade them to use LEDs.
The eventual cost savings would be immense and the environment would benefit.
We have the technology, we know it makes sense, lets do it!
http://www.enerleds.com/street%20lamp.pdf
What a crock of shit... Hey thank government for bringing a high speed data network across the nation, and then using it for worthless shit like tracking cars. Hey how about providing some services to people who could use it? A goddamn 200mbit wireless network covering most of the country and the people probably can't even use it. They could provide internet to virtually every citizen with this "INCLUDING AREAS WITHOUT BROADBAND" leave it to asshole politicians.
It's highly unlikely that the UK Government will implement a system to control the speed of drivers as they make far too much money from speeding fines.
As a biased pedestrian/cyclist, I'd like to see drivers stick to the speed limit.
And i'd like to see cyclists stick to roads on which it's safe to ride. Oh, but bicycles are the same as cars... same roads same rules and all that.
I disagree with your last statement too. The really dangerous drivers are the kind that think they're "good drivers" period, because they drive a volvo or an SUV, but who don't use their signals, tap the brakes everytime a pair of headlights approaches them in the other lane and chatter on their cell phones fucking incessantly.
I've made it a habit, when i see someone do something stupid in their car, to try and notice, if i can, if they're on a cell phone, and i can tell you, the corellation is high. not politics, here, just observation.
Driving fast can be dangerous too, doubly so if coupled with other bad habits, but there are places where speeding is a relatively low risk, and in those places, yeah, i'm gonna push it, because i enjoy the act of driving and, yeah, i think i'm capable of assessing the risk in a particular place and time. When i see a cyclist, i slow down, and if i have to pass them, do so with caution because i don't know if they're gonna hit a rock with their narrow wheels and skitter sideways under my tires. If the road is clear and open, and there aren't any places where people might appear suddenly, different story.
19.99 a month for 256k 59.99 for 2Mb
if you have SkyTV it won't cost you the 200 ish installation for a SkyDish
I'm told the latency is quite high so don't expect to play quake
http://www.silvermead.net/satellite
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
or fix your keyboard
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
perhaps it's under warranty
when I first read the headline "Wireless Street Lamps for Traffic Monitoring" that the UK were sinking yet more money in that elusive pseudo-tech called "wireless light" that would enable police to see cars even at night. Thank goodness it turned out to be something much more sensible.
Your founding fathers just got pissed off because we needed to up taxes to pay the national debt run up by having to pay to insitute and maintain the colonies.
Just wait until Bush hits the magic trillion. Then we'll reap the whirlwind of a collapsing US economy driven to desperate measures.
Freedom, come on, did you really fall for that one?
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
The ... transformers hanging on poles havent become targets yet and they have been readily available for quite a few decades.
When's the last time you heard: "Hey Billy-Bob, let's go play with that thing hanging off that tharn big pole with all those wires coming out of it making that buzzing sound! I bet I can hold it longer than you can! WOOO"
The Darwin Awards, exactly. But unless these new wireless networks set off a charge for anyone being obtrusive, expect them to get screwed with.
When modding "Informative", please make sure it both has a source and IS actually informative.
An important addition: many cash-strapped local authorities have used traffic cameras as an excuse to cut budgets to their police forces. Some forces no longer have a dedicated traffic section and all of them have been greatly reduced.
Cameras only detect speeding: not bad driving. Nor can they realise that 90mph on a deserted dual carraigeway is not terribly dangerous, but 50mph in dense fog is.
Motorists love to hate the traffic cops, but they do/did an important job.
Er, that's great that you acknowledge that people would be pissed off by a mandatory speed control device.
Alas, I suspect that rather than lobbying to change the speed limits, they'd be more likely to get it removed entirely, through either political or technical means.
Anyway, you might want to reconsider your "we have too much freedom!" slogan if you're looking for political support.
What are you still in grade school or something??
I'm 41 if it matters.
Stop crying
I'm not crying, I'm stating my opinion (publicly, I will add), and I vote and write my representatives commensurate with my opinion.
There will be things we like and dislike, but you can't just ban what you dislike.
There are many things I dislike that I have no intention of ever supporting a ban on: tobacco use in private (it raises US health care costs), meat (I'm vegetarian, so I dislike cows taking up the land), too many people having too many babies (I wouldn't ban this, but I think we need some good propaganda a la Iran to get people to back off a bit). Of course, free speech (books) have nothing to do with this thread, but I will say that I wouldn't ban any books by the most obscene writers such as Klansman, etc., but the freedom to shout your opinion at the top of your lungs in public is probably a bit much.
the world isn't here to cater to you, but to everyone.
I don't think the world is here to cater to anyone, I simply have my views of how the world can be better for (almost) everyone, and I don't happen to think that the freedom to satisfy all your wants even if it reduces the pleasure of a much larger number of people (as is the case with a snowmobiler in Yellowstone or a noisy private plane flying low over some of our ever dwindling places of escape from civilization) is better.
If someone can afford to drive a 1 Mile per Gallon car, then so be it.
I used to think this way (with a higher gas tax), but now I think the problem (global warming, falling off the consumption cliff when oil runs out abruptly, etc.) is too serious to allow it. I don't support CAFE standards, but road vehicles should be classified by carrying capacity (combination of volume/passengers/hauling) and should have a maximum fuel consumption (minimum MPG) limit.
Dara Parsavand
dparsavand@mailblocks.com
There's nothing in the goverment initiative that suggests that they will be monitoring the speeds of each individual car. That appears to be a throwaway remark by The Register.
Speed limits are funny things. We have to remember that they're not only set for safety reasons, but many limits are holdovers from the oil crises of the 70's. Speed limits were a great way of getting consumers to limit their consumption.
Granted we should still be limiting our consumption, but I would suggest technology is slowly taking care of that through low-emissions vehicles, hybrids, and the (hopefully) soon to be next generation of alternative fuel autos.
It's naive to say that anyone who breaks the speed limit is driving dangerously. Often on the 401 from Montreal to Toronto the average flow of traffic is approximately 125 km/h. Anyone driving at 100 (the posted limit) is actually posing a bigger danger than those going with the flow. Drivers need to use their discretion and decide what speed is safest for any given situation.
And what happens when I'm driving fifty in a fifty zone and there's a slight downward grade that causes me to speed up ever so slightly to 52 or 53? If there are sensors to see that, and I get a ticket in the mail, I don't see it standing up in court.
Laws are not black and white, though they may appear to be so. This kind of tracking system is going to cost a lot of money, many people would get pissed off at getting tickets for perfectly safe driving, and I'm sure there will be many legal challenges.
Driving safely is about making smart choices, not about blindly following rules.
I never seem to have mod points when I really need them. Mod the parent up!
You hit the nail on the head. Catching speeders is about revenue generation, not safety. There are son many other things LEO's could be doing to improve driving safety, but it doesn't generate the revenue like speeding fines do.
j.
Wouldn't a nationwide wireless system make War Drivers obsolete?
Frink: Nice try floyd, but you were designed for scrubbing, and scrubbing is what you shall do.
But let me say, I hope the use does this. Do I think we should be monitored...no. Do I think they will really be capable of using this...no. Do I think that this 200MB wireless network will be secure ....Hell No. I think it will be free ISP for me!
UK drivers!
If you want sheer speed then spend your holidays in Germany. Autobahn network is still there, with no speed limit at all in many places (and still they have better safety record than other EU nations when it comes to accidents on highways).
If you want a different type of thrill go to Eastern Europe. They don't have road network in the modern sense of the word, but you can speed on most small roads. And if you happen to get caught by a radar equipped policeman (happens on main roads) just give him a 20 Euro banknote and drive on.
It could be worse.
Don't want speeding tickets? Heres a simple solution: Drive under the speed limit, you insensitive clod.
Don't want to suffer? Here's a simple solution: obey the arbitrary will of your government busybodies.
Jesus, I'm fed up with people pretending that speeding fines are a stealth tax. They're not.
Oh, they're not a stealth tax. They are a tax. Here in Georgia, people violate the speed limit contstantly. I was taught growing up that one can go 10 over the speed limit with impunity. The police here abide by this. When they need to make their quotas (remember, traffic fines are a line item in government "budgets"), they start enforcing the speed limit.
They're a penalty for breaking the law and they're really easy to avoid.
If I'm in the government and I want to raise some more money to buy some more votes, then I can decide to make some arbitrary activity "illegal" and then impose a fine for breaking that law. Thank God I'll have people who will excuse this immoral behavior with the "that's the rules!" defense you've just exhibited.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Telemics, LLC is already doing something similar.
I can see where you are coming from. When colliding with a person, a cars speed is very important in how bad the injury will be. As such, I don't speed in urban areas.
However, I horse it on the motorway, where it is safe to do so. Provided you aren't driving your car beyond it's limits, e.g. taking a hatchback over 100 mph (or an SUV over 50 mph, yes 50 mph, any more is a death-wish), then speeding on the motorway is safe.
The statistics prove it. Very rarely is an accident on the motorway down to speeding. As the parent's parent post says, lack of attention, inexperience or just sheer stupidity is to blame.
Hmmm, let's see, on my dad's side they were from Norway, never conquered. On my mom's side they were from the Vikings who did the conquering of Normandy who later did the conquering of England.
Nope, not conquered.
On a side note, "Pot, kettle, black" is what Dean should have said to Sharpton.
Well, fuck you and your ill-mannered, ignorant, dangerous cyclist pals.
I'm forever having to look out for dickheads like you on the road, and have now taken to pulling close to the kerb in queues and hoping the car behind leaves no gap for cyclist wankers like you.
There's no excuse for speeding in town, but there is no excuse either for some of the speed limit reductions imposed by money-grabbing council bureaucrats on a fine-harvesting mission on otherwise safe roads. Most of my local roads now have 50mph, or even 40mph limits, when 60mph is not only safe, but safer (the lower the speed limit, the more driver concentration tends to wander, and the less the average driver looks ahead).
Myself - I ignore ridiculous speed limits unless a camera is installed, and will continue to do so even if this monitoring shit is imposed - I'll reprogram the fucking chip myself if I have to, just to piss off sanctimonious gits like you.
more bullshit from bullshit spewing /.er
it's like saying
"Gee, open source is sooo stupid, just wait 'till businesses find out they can use the code in their own products, I see so much room for abuse"
Blah. you can say that about anything on this planet, and on any other planet. Thus it's a completely and utterly useless comment to make.
This creeping spelling fascism really has to stop - damn it, if I want to misspell stuff, then I damned well ought to be able to.
Next thing you know, they'll ban waving your willy in public.
Bastards.
If you don't believe me, look here for Googles jackbooted response to my exercising my freedom of speach.
oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
No, I wouldn't.
falling off the consumption cliff when oil runs out abruptly, etc.
Your apparent ignorance on a subject to which you've obviously devoted some thought is telling.
An "abrupt" end to oil supply is not likely. It will be a gradual increase in price over a few decades. More of a gentle slope than a cliff. Increasing demand in places like China may have more of a short-term effect, depending on which economists you believe, but that doesn't seem to be what you meant by "running out" of oil.
Of course, a gradual decline could still have catastrophic consequences, but then again it might not.
Here is the news. This project is about traffic monitoring, i.e. providing information on the volume of traffic on Britain's congested road network. There's nothing in the article to suggest that every single number-plate is going to be photographed and tracked along with the speed it's doing! CCTV cameras that monitor traffic are nothing new, you see them on the BBC every morning giving your ungrateful selves helpful advice on how unpleasant your commute on the M25 is going to be.
Sheesh!
Drill baby drill - on Mars
going OT...
excuse me, but the metric system is used not just in europe.
Central-South America, Asia, Africa...hummm, i really think USA is the exception here.
All one need do to own an AK-47 (The fully automatic submachine gun model, not to be confused with the AKM-47, the semi-automatic only assault style rifle that is merely missing the selector mechanism but requires some good gunsmithing work to add it...) is to apply for a class 3 weapons permit. Unfortunately, doing this means they know that you've got the weapons in question because each one that falls under class 3 designation has to be registered with the ATF.
Now, owning an AKM-47 is rather easy (there's quite a few left about but the prices are a little bit high from the "assault" weapons "ban"...) and considering that if you're really good, you can fire nearly as fast as the full-auto mode and place your shots more accurately.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
And how much revenue was generated by bad driving tickets v. speeding tickets? What makes you think safety factors into this at all?
How does your ignition work?
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Never underestimate the determination of drunken idiots.
My patience is infinite, my time is not.
A big factor you're forgetting is that drivers are distracted by the speed cameras themselves. Whenever there's a warning sign or they're coming up to an area they know cameras are in, drivers slam on the brakes look for the camera.
Drivers treat cameras as a danger and as another road hazard, taking their eyes (and mind) off the road and other vehicles. And then when they abruptly change speed to apease the cameras - they temporarily have reduced awareness of the other vehicles around them.
Cameras are *more likely* to cause accidents than prevent them. Accident rates were falling because of improved roads, signs, better driver education and safer vehicles. When cameras were introduced, accident rates stopped falling - all the safety improvements nullified by the distraction of cameras. The police don't want cameras removed because whenever the accident rate rises - they install more cameras to "solve" the problem, "protect" drivers - and increase their revenue from the speeding tickets.
The article clearly states that this sort of thing will be happening everywhere when cars get smart enough to avoid traffic jams and road blocks. If privacy is a concern, then start doing something about it. If you just want to post gloating drivel then please shut up.
No, in only 7% of accidents did the police note "speeding" as the primary cause. In most cases they said made more general remarks, which doesn't mean that speeding wasn't a factor, or even the main factor, in the accident.
If you think that the roads are safer when you drive faster, you're an idiot.
Most of this behaviour just doesn't seem to happen in N. America, or at least here in Canada. Thank goodness.
You've obviously never heard of Derrickito.
You've both made the mistake of forgetting Canada.
One could also call it justice.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
And Europeans call Americans uncivilized.
Has it done anything for lowering accident rates, or just sent more money to the government pockets?
Have you been hit by a car ?
At what speed ?
I can tell you that 15mph is too fast to be hit by a car. Hell, 10mph still hurts if you weren't already going that way. What speed limit would you like ? Perhaps we should all go no faster than 5 mph on any road where bicyclists might be. That would solve your problem.
Speed decides how bad, but almost any speed is going to cause you injury - 35 mph is _slow_, on the roads in California (for example), but it's fast enough to turn you into a jumble of bones and spokes under the wheels of an SUV. But "I didn't break the speed limit, officer".
It takes two to tango - cyclists and pedestrians should realize they cannot win any altercation with two tons of metal, and act accordingly. I've lost track of the number of morons who've stepped off the curb without even looking. This is especially prevalent in parking lots, but I've seen it on regular roads as well.
Cars don't kill people, people kill people.
What is expected to happen, is that contractors will install the intelligent lamp posts in areas. They'll provide the basic traffic telemetry and telematic services that the Government requires - and then they'll have the rest of the bandwidth free to sell on, providing other services.
I'd rather get free net access to be honest, considering the sort of draconian crap my taxes could be going into i think its the least i could get back. Infact free unrestricted country wide super-high bandwidth wireless net access for everyone might make me forget about afew Blair/Labour shortcomings HINT HINT
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Bear in mind that most people going to college (as opposed to a college at a university) are under 18. But the age of consent is 16.
This is why I'm a nerd who's discovered a fondness for sociology and psychology! Those subjects have more impact on what technologies will take hold in the future than engineering excellence or creativity (unfortunately, the nerd in me says).
a country-wide wireless data network using street lamps. It's come to pass through a government initiative to monitor all cars' speed and location, all the time, everywhere.
Police cars too?
Hi twin ! I've got _exactly_ the same experience.
Can I ask you guys.. Is anyone else concerned where this is going??? I used to think that the civil liberty people were actually a bit mad, but now I'm starting to see what they were getting at. I am a law abiding (mostly ;-)) person and this sort of thing makes me want to go out and buy a big angle grinder and start cutting down cameras and lampposts and things.. Where is this madness going to end??
Actually, I prob know the answer to that, we'll all end up oppressed and crazy. The government, umm, what a wonderful thing..
However, we do need AK-47's to change the Congress if we need to
I'm sorry, but you are kidding, right? The 2nd amendment was written at a time when it was my musket vs. your musket. Now, anyone trying to overthrow the government would be facing a highly advanced military force. What good is an AK-47 when you can be smart-bombed out of existence without even seening your enemy?
The current state of affairs is comparable to the founders having given people the right to carry small pointy sticks.
People need to accept that the Constitution is a living document, and that the 2nd amendment no longer makes sense in the context of modern society. Arguing that we need the right to bear arms so we can overthrow our government is absurd in the current technological state. I can't really think of any good reason for people to be able to own assault weapons... maybe you can, but the one you gave isn't one of them.
Okay this is totally off-topic, but you do realize when you say 5-6 meters you are basically speaking to the REST of the WORLD, not just the Europeans...
Its invasive..
Couple this with 'ez-pass' and 'on-star' type of technology and you get to track everyone everywhere ( at least in a car.. )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This will be even better for when they want to put in the RFID monitoring hardware so they know where you are all the time, how much money you're carrying, and how fast you're going...and which websites you'll be visiting. Sounds like British big brother is on the ball.
Ah screw it, you're not paying attention anyway.
I agree, when governments become dependent on fines (or sin taxes for that matter), judgment is often clouded. My claim is that fewer traffic police officers and cars will save some money, but I don't have numbers to show this will offset the loss in fines.
And of course it's not just about balancing the police budget - unions will probably try to prevent a reduction in police staffing.
I'm also pro drug legalization which should also reduce the number of required police officers (and increase the number of drug rehab therapists). But this is an even harder argument to make than vehicle speed control.
Dara Parsavand
dparsavand@mailblocks.com
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!! We don't have cameras everywhere YET.
AcmeShells.com The cheapest Eggdrop
either:
(1) vote it out. reclaim the country. tell the orwellians to move to orwellia, and leave us alone.
(2) conduct civil disobedience.
(3) suffer loss of liberty and try to ignore the problem.
just what would it take to dismantle a FULLY OPERATIONAL police state? how close are we to that? is it better to act now, or to hide and wait? how long did the soviet union last? are we so ready to yield to pressures that point in that direction? what means do we have to stop the perceived trend of government net widening?
carnivore, eschelon, public cameras, airport background checks, the un"patriot"ic act... these are just some of the recent events from around the world. enough is enough. freedom loving people should work to put their governments on a short, heavy leash, and start clubbing without mercy.
or, for the less idealistic, it could be examined on purely cost/benefit terms:
the quality of life gained by having: fair and free elections, personal liberty and privacy, the ability to accidentally (or even on purpose!) speed a little, without getting bloodsucked for $300.
the government knowing where your car is, at all times, and arbitrary taxation via speeding ticket revenues.
just what does it take to detect and destroy a camera relay unit?
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
I gots karma to burn!
It can lower the accident rate where the cameras are, but not on all the roads. I find this the most stupid thing in the UK - the speed cameras are painted flourescant yellow, there's a huge sigh saying "Speed Cameras, 40mph" or whatever, and often the road is painted too. Why?!?! I thought the idea was to dissuade speeding motorists from getting a ticket by making them slow down *everywhere* to reduce accidents *everywhere* - not to merely make people think "Oh, there's a speed camera sign, I'll slow down" and 2 minutes later "it's OK to speed up now ". What's the fine for speeding in the US? A cousin in Michigan got $400 IIRC, though I don't know what speed he was doing. *That's* a deterrent. Having been on holiday in the US and driven over 10,000 miles there, I noticed that the speed limit is closely observed, especially on the freeways. When the speed limit is 70, almost everyone goes at 72-73 or so. Round small towns people stick to the 35 or so limit. In the UK on the motorways, you'll have some old woman doing 60, someone who missed a speed camera sign and got ticketed doing 71, and the rest doing around 80. If I was do travel to London on the M1 (motorway) at 80mph (10 over the limit) I'd probably be overtaken what... 20, 30 times? At least. The police aren't doing their job properly, there needs to be a good deterrent, and most importantly they (in cars) should stop people doing 80 in a 70 limit, not just the madmen doing 100. The other thing I don't get about UK roads is those damn humps in them ('traffic calming' designed to irritate the drivers by making a bump in the road). I think it's this bloody (just to prove I'm english;-) government interfering with every detail of our lives *again*. First change I get, I'm emmigrating. Matt http://www.dft.gov.uk/ = Department for Transport, UK
In UK there are already many cases of speed cameras and for that matter mobile phone masts being attacked by such such means and reduced to a stump.
Adelaide as street lights now?
Damn, next thing they'll have drinkable water.
To know that you know what you know, and that you do not know what you do not know, that is true wisdom. --Scooby Doo
Oh my, oh my...i think satan won't like you visiting him.
So the men are not ashame anymore to also walk with the car. It's a macho thing.
Street lights are what, 15-20 feet tall? (5-6 meters for our European friends
.22 rifle? Paintball gun? Flamethrower?
It varies from state to state, and by how much over the speed limit you're going. The last ticket I got was for $64 for 10 over the limit, but the fines been raised since then I belive it's around $90 now. If your cousin got a ticket for $400 he was going WAY over the limit, and likely got a ticket for reckless driving too.
Meaning such scenarias arn't much of a problem in reality.
Good idea. Get a bunch of those ultra-bright IR LED's, and incorporate them into a jacket. Not sure if the cameras are filtered either, I think most of them rely on a bit of IR so they get better vision at night.
OTOH, which is more valuable? "Not being identifiable" or "Not standing out like a lighthouse everywhere you go"? You can bet the mall rentacops are going to know why you show up as a brilliant glare on their CCD system..
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
Yeah, there is a really good idea. Take high voltage power lines and place them underground where any idiot with a shovel can hit them accidently. And don't suggest a locating service be used first because I know more than one person who did get the lines located, and still hit them because the paint wasn't over the line. Fortunatly for them it was just a gas pipe, which while dangerious enough isn't as deadly as a power line.
Saddly the US is moveing in that same direction, and most new power lines are going underground. At least it looks nicer.
Frist we give them wireless, and now they whant a cell phone, no respect
Jeb, quit defending your brother George again...
+++OK ATH
It doesn't happen as often as you think it might. It seems to me that there are more problems in N. America with things getting caught up in the power cables hanging from the pole, be it kites, ladders, trees, high winds or ice storms. They all bring live power cables down and cause problems. Digging in the wrong place just doesn't happen as much.
Actually I was hit by a car, and it was the dude in the car that didnt look. I was halfway in the intersection when he pulled up looking left to make a right turn, then Smack, right into me. Luckly i was on my bike and the sound of that made him stop, or i probably wouldnt be replying to this post
life sucks, then you die
I have a modest proposal: have british ignition systems controlled by EKG headbands, which would require British drivers to demonstrate an ability to think before they can hit the road. Of course, then the gummint would know what you were thinking, too...
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves
Any time you find driving on public roads, built with public money, within the speeds the public's representatives feel are safe, you feel free to build your own road network with your own money.
Of course, you shouldn't be driving on public roads, but I guess your rigorous morality doesn't extend to inconveniencing yourself any.
it's a STREET LAMP. Like, it's main purpose is to carry high voltage up itself to the lamp on the end. Taking a grinder to one would be a short, but salutary lesson to others to not try to destroy what they don't understand...
welcome our Street Lamp Overlords.
(Does that make sense?)
Wanted : A Signature.
Street lights are what, 15-20 feet tall? (5-6 meters for our European friends :) Not the easiest place to gain access too.
Not really.Here in England one can see graffiti in all sorts of improbabale places.Overhead bridges,water tanks,outside the upper deck of a double decker bus...the list goes on and on...
Wanted : A Signature.
But overhead powerlines are visible, meaning you know where there could be a problems, and you know nearly exactly. Close enough that if you are paying attention to your ladder you won't hit them. Even paying attention to your shovel won't help if they marked the lines wrong. For that matter, most of the lines I've seen are the same color as dirt (there is a marker of a different color over them) so I'm not sure you would nesecarly see it if your shovel was about to hit it.
In practice underground powerlines are less reliable than overhead. Sure wind brings down overhead lines, but moles don't eat them, ground water doesn't seep in, the insulation doesn't rot. My local utility has more outages per mile in the underground lines than overhead.
Dammit, George! They're on to me!
A valid viewpoint, but one that I disagree with, because the consequences are frequently (at least partially) shared.
You can't disagree wholesale with "people should be free to suffer the consequences of their poor choices". You have to consider the specifics of each case. In the case of not wearing seatbelts, the "consequences are shared" because the "victim" decides to make others pay for it through his insurance company.
Incompatible with free universal healthcare
It's not "free". Someone is paying. Someone whose vote is not required to those implementing the "free" universal health care. Answer me this: how can you have universal health care without having a right to someone else's property?
Why is it different?
Because it is much more complicated that the other two issues you mentioned. The first issue was about whether or not mandantory seatbelt laws were nannying. That's one question: seatbelt or not. The second issue was about whether or not mandantory motorcycle helmet laws were nannying. Again, one question: motorcycle helmets or not.
Airplane safety, comparatively, contains many, many different aspects. How often should each aspect of the airplane be serviced by whom with what qualifications? It's not an issue of "is government regulation of airline safety nannying?" but, rather, "how much government regulation of airline safety is nannying?"
You can have all the middle ground you want, but it's a cut-throat business...and surely that engine's good for another 1000 miles....
You neglect the fact that it's in an airline's best interest to make sure their planes don't crash. I think the government is much better at meddling and killing than it is at saving lives.
Directly or indirectly? Someone has to mop up the blood.
Please elaborate.
People causing themselves harm frequently incur a cost to society doing so.
Sweeping statements like these are a waste of breath (or, in this case, typing). Furthermore, the concepts of "bad for society" and "immoral" are completely functionally equivalent. So don't bore me with "bad for society". Say what you mean: immoral!
If I'd said "no convincing reason not to make it mandatory", would you still agree? Or still see it as a non-sequitur?
The conjuction was "and", not "or". I agreed with your statement, and I thought it didn't have anything to do with any part of the prior discussion.
I notice that you didn't dispute that the (nanny) state is the One True God of the Left. I believe that Leftism is a religion, and its god is the State. The sin under Leftism is the same as the sin under Christianity: individualism, which both religions call "selfishness".
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
It would be kind-of fun to wear a jacket like that, if only to see the look on mall security's faces when they realize it's not a ghost, but some clown engineer playing a prank. :-)
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
It really doesn't matter that our meter-maids have been around for 20+ years, they make their presence known everytime they issue a $250 parking ticket to a motorist who's only dropping off a passenger at a bus stop for less than a second.
As to the kids in the UK, I agree with you completely on that count. I am currently living in one of the most dangerous cities in the US and I've noticed that the teenagers from the ghetto, the ones that look like hoodlums and walk like they're carrying a gun, well those teenagers are not nearly as sadistic and mean-spirited as the typical clean-cut white uniformed twelve years olds from London, UK. Don't ask me why this is so, but London kids are just screwed up and I'm sure glad they don't have access to guns like their American counterparts.