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Northwest Gives Personal Data to NASA
Tree writes "Following four months on the heels of JetBlue's confession that they released passenger data to the Feds against their stated privacy guidelines, the Washington Post is reporting that Northwest has now admitted that they've done the same thing during a time period when they said they weren't. Nice. They were once my favorite airline."
I was sure the submitter meant the NSA but looking at the story it really was NASA.
Are they going to be sharing this info with the Martian Immigration Service?
Surprise? Nope.
Did they need it to find Beagle II?
You probably mean a 3-letter agency, here, right?
It's just a BloJJ
Like my parents used to say... "It's not that we're so angry that you did [insert bad thing here], it's that you lied to us about it.
circa75.com
Now everyone's spying on us :(.
Browse at -1, because trolls are often the most creative part of
We're sending you to Mars because of your ties to terrorist groups. Nothing personal, you understand, right?
...is the only way to fly. They would never hand off my info to any government agency, AND all their seats are first class, no coach.
Their privacy policy is one of the most rigorous in the business, and they actually follow it.
How do I know?
Because I liked Midwest Express so much, I bought the company.
rtfa
We do not live in a police state. The Government trusts us. Donald Rumsfeld is infallable. All hail Bush.
So what will you when every toll road you travel on by car passes your travel details automatically to law enforcement based on your license plate? Or when one day every intersection has a camera collecting this kind of information? Or when there's a camera doing face recognition on every street corner, evaluating whether you are a terrorist or not? Will you just stay at home all day? I think a more proactive stance is needed here. Getting the general public to understand the privacy implications of these systems so they stop voting for people that put them in place is probably a lot more effective.
They were your favorite airline? You obviously don't live in Detroit. Here, we call them Northworst, and it really doesn't surprise me. This is after they've used taxpayer money to build an addition to our airport that they're now calling the "Northwest World Gateway," totally ignoring its actual name.
Then it should be easy to boycott and avoid them.
Flight numbers, seat numbers, and names. So what? Do you think you're fucking James Bond and you're a super secret spy so no one can know anything about you? Do you think Northwest just blew your cover you stupid ass? Take it easy. You're not the person the feds are looking for. They're just trying to make sure your fat ass isn't blown up over Poughkeepsie by a terrorist. Ass bitch.
If Jetblue jumped off a bridge, would you?
~To choose doubt as a philosophy of life is akin to choosing immobility as a means of transportation. -Yann Martel
This surely begs the question if NASA have as much trouble with their mainstream programs for space missions how the heck can someone expect them to reliably mine data for terrorists... I think this is probably another of Bush's slip ups - he meant to say NSA when he dictated the request but ended up saying NASA instead :)
--- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
With airlines not doing so well these days, I don't think it's a very good idea for them to piss their customers off...
Of course, even if they lose 30% of their customers, the government will subsidize them for that 30%. Ahh...the wonders of...capitalism?
from an aticle on the same topic at nytimes.com:
"We do not provide that type of information to anyone," Kurt Ebenhoch, a spokesman for Northwest, told The New York Times in a story published on Sept. 23.
On a separate point, remember that an airline that is pressed by the Government to violate its passengers' privacy is likely in an impossible position: "turn over your passenger records, or we have the security people strip-search all your passengers at the gate and we start safety inspections on every one of your planes 5 minutes before departure. You'll never have a customer again."
I don't mean to excure them, but I do think it's worth wondering aloud whether they got some not-so-subtle hints that the didn't need to mention this to the public.
They were once my favorite airline.
With all the paranoid hoops the feds make travelers jump through to board an aircraft, I must admit my favorite airline is Amtrack these days, for shorter journeys.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
I'd bet that nearly all of the of the major Airlines have done this. Northwest and JetBlue just happened to get caught...
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Northwest Airlines provided information on millions of passengers for a secret U.S. government air-security project soon after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, raising more concerns among some privacy advocates about the airlines' use of confidential customer data.
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The nation's fourth-largest airline asserted in September that it "did not provide that type of information to anyone." But Northwest acknowledged Friday that by that time, it had already turned over three months of reservation data to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Ames Research Center. Northwest is the second carrier to have been identified as secretly passing travelers' records to the government.
The airline industry has said publicly that it would not cooperate in developing a government passenger-screening program because of concerns that the project would infringe on customer privacy. But the participation of two airlines in separate programs demonstrates the industry's clandestine role in government security initiatives.
In September, JetBlue Airways said that it turned over passenger records to a defense contractor and apologized to its customers for doing so.
Northwest said in a statement Friday that it participated in the NASA program after the terrorist attacks to assist the government's search for technology to improve aviation security. "Northwest Airlines had a duty and an obligation to cooperate with the federal government for national security reasons," the airline said.
Records included personal information
The carrier declined to say how many passengers' records were shared with NASA from the period offered, October to December 2001. More than 10.9 million passengers traveled on Northwest flights during that time, according to the Transportation Department.
NASA documents show that NASA kept Northwest's passenger name records until September 2003. Such records typically include credit card numbers, addresses and telephone numbers.
NASA said it used the information to investigate whether "data mining" of the records could improve assessments of threats posed by passengers, according to the agency's written responses to questions. At the time the agency also was exploring other possible projects aimed at improving air security, it said. NASA said no other airlines were involved in the project and that it did not share its data with other parties. The agency said it did not pay for the data.
Northwest said it did not inform any passengers that it shared data with NASA. It also said it did not believe that the data sharing violated its privacy policy.
"Our privacy policy commits Northwest not to sell passenger information to third parties for marketing purposes," the company said in its statement Friday . "This situation was entirely different, as we were providing the data to a government agency to conduct scientific research related to aviation security and we were confident that the privacy of passenger information would be maintained."
The carrier tells passengers visiting its Web site that "when you reserve or purchase travel services through Northwest Airlines nwa.com Reservations, we provide only the relevant information required by the car rental agency, hotel, or other involved third party to ensure the successful fulfillment of your travel arrangements."
Earlier admission
The disclosure of Northwest's participation in the NASA project comes just four months after JetBlue's admission of involvement in a secret security project conducted by the Defense Department. JetBlue conceded that it violated its privacy policy when it turned over records on 1.1 million passengers. JetBlue is being sued by passengers in class-action lawsuits.
The Northwest and NASA documents were released in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a nonprofit organization that advocates privacy rights and open government. The organization, which provided the docum
That way, people don't have to be worried about "loopholes" in privacy policies such as the one indicated in a NYT article on the same subject:
The company said in a statement: "Our privacy policy commits Northwest not to sell passenger information to third parties for marketing purposes. This situation was entirely different, as we were providing the data to a government agency to conduct specific scientific research related to aviation security and we were confident that the privacy of passenger information would be maintained."
According to for example Norwegian law, this transfer would be unlawful unless the data subjects consented to the transfer.
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
... lawsuit should be in order
not only did they really mean nasa, but the beagle ii is an ESA probe. that's the eurpoean space agency.
not that nasa wouldn't like the beagle to be found, but they're not the party responsible for it.
An article in the following day's St. Paul (Minn.) Pioneer Press said: "Northwest Airlines will not share customer information, as JetBlue Airways has, Northwest chief executive Richard Anderson said Tuesday in brief remarks after addressing the St. Paul Rotary."
Somebody should ask Dick Anderson, what exactly did he mean by his statement? If that is not a bald-faced lie, then I don't know what is.
I hope the shareholders hold this guy accountable.
As the former owner of a Nortwest Frequent Flyer card (which I just cut up on reading this story), I'd just like to say "sayonara!" to Northwest. It was not the sharing of the data that was bad; it was lying about it and the "cross my heart, swear to God we don't do that" that pissed me off.
I can understand the need for exploring new security options. How hard would it have been to anonymize the data? Just run it through a one-way hash function, and you can provide the data without invading anyone's privacy.
This ineptitude and lying really irritates me.
Ah they are ok. At least they use a phone number. I dont buy anything but beer from the grocery store that uses a card anyway (I go to a food coop for that). But I enter in a phone number. Gee my deceased grandmother seems to drink alot of beer according to thier records!
Why would NASA want information on airlines' passengers? I can understand the Government, in general would, but NASA? NASA does space exploration, not national defense. What gives?
They "misplaced" one of their super intelligent space monkeys and are covertly trying to find where he fled to without alerting the unsespecting authorities.
Recent reports of fluctuating banana prices only spurred their resolve. Bonkers MUST be found before he mates!
You can't take the sky from me...
just know how to spy.
sulli
RTFJ.
that who gets it all in a class action
I had a flight last week on Delta (not my favorite airline either) but when I showed up to the airport and had problems with Delta's (we don't want to talk to you so we make you deal with a machine) self-check in kiosk I found out that I was actually flying on Northwest. Huh? Apparantly even though I booked Delta, they codeshare with Northwest. I wonder if my passenger information is now in Northwest's database.
Really, the FBI can come over and arrest me, the NSA can deploy a task force in the North Sea standing by to obliberate most of Northern-Europe and the CIA can drug my beer but not the NASA! Dear Eris, they might decide to drop that Saturn V on my house, do you have any idea how much that blasted things weighs?
Hate me!
(disclaimer: satire)
-Flakbait
Temporary Minister of Propoganda for the Assyrian Empire
I was wondering why the US Air lady asked me if I thought the moon landings had been faked when I checked in. I hope I answered correctly.
A government agency asked a company to provide passenger data, and they seemingly lied about it. That's about it. The fault is with Northwest for not being more forthcoming about it.
The desperation to insert 'Bush/Rumsfeld/Ashcroft is evil' in every item shows how much the Left is falling further into irrelevancy.
SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
More and more people lie more and more.
It is becoming accepted as 'not wrong'.
So who to trust? Nobody?
It was MLB. Now they know my squalor index.
I hide the fact that I have nothing to hide. Never show your cards.
hate titty pee colon slash slash
When the powers that be pushed though the worst bill since the DMCA though congress (Patriot Act). Using 9/11 as an excuse, and then continueing to further piss on the bill of rights, attaching parts of Patriot Act II onto bills that have nothing to do with it.
Oh, then there was the lies about why we went to war, it was for the WMD! Oh wait, no it was because Saddam was in connection with Al Qaeda! Oh no, wait, thats wrong too. It's beacuse he was an evil dictator, yeah! Thats the ticket.
Please, go back to watching Faux news you loser.
So, if I have a card, and if I can use it when buying, say, some action figures for my collection, than I will, because then they'll continue stocking the figures. It's not like I'm buying porn and using the card on the purchase.
95% of the people who have these cards aren't using them when buying anything like pr0n or condoms or anything where they would be embarrassed if their mother knew they were buying them. Besides, for items like that, you generally can't get a discount on them using the cards.
Zagreus sits inside your head, Zagreus lives among the dead, Zagreus sees you in your bed and eats you in your sleep.
yeah, right, just like the PATRIOT Act should only scare you if you're a terrorist...
everybody has something to hide.
If you don't agree, please post all you credit card numbers, with expiration dates, checking account number, with routing information, all logon and passwords to any thing you have. If you have nay children, please post there names birthdate, secret words, and schedules. Please post you employeer, employee number, annual salary/income.
Also please put a web cam in every room of your house so we can watch whatever you do. Be sure to post your drivers liscense information, all ID numbers.
So, you still got nothing to hide?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Class action lawsuit anyone?
Liberty.
Pure, and simple lying.
They lied.
Their sorry excuse ?
It sounds just like what Adobe was saying when they got busted for the Currency Detection Algorithms that they had added as (semi) spyware. And then of course we find out that many other Graphics Programs Vendors had done the same ...
Their sorry excuse ?
Really makes you wonder how many of these Corporations are already in-bed-with-the-feds ...
Is it already 1985 ?
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
a. Support for Bush/Cheny/et.al.
b. Nationalism
Thank you
I have to point out that we don't know the protocol for mining this data. They may analyze it in stages - trying to preserve anonymity as best they can. I do however, of course, realize that they have taken an UNPRECIDENTED step in all of this, and I doubt JetBlue or Northwest are the only carriers, or services for that matter, that have turned over records. Recent moves by content piracy lawyers to acquire dowloader data should not be confused with trying to protect our citizens - they are vastly different symptoms of us not being able to control everything. That not being able to control everything is a fact, it is also, IMHO, a sign that we are missing opportunities to make this planet safe and enjoyable for everyone.
Yet look at the underlying fundamentals, which these gery-op type actions seem to overlook:
Anyone, domestic or foreign, can readily acquire the tools to kill thousands or more people. They simply can. The Spirit rover on Mars is a great example of what technology can do from a long, long way away. We are incapable of preventing Free Will through legislation - only our actions, domestic and foreign can address this. Bombs and secret tribunals cannot.
My conclusion is that we are responding in kneejerk fashion to what is really a social disease. Instead of defending and offending at the same time, retaliating and escalating, we should do the 'right thing'. Invest in the world so that everyone has a sustainable future, beyond mud huts and slavery. I think then, the only problem we'd have with the technological genii is the random, actually crazy serial killer. The fundametalist killers would be satiated, and re-absorbed into their communities. Living happily everafter (tra la la).
Stuff that matters.
suggesting that people who criticze Bush are un-American strengthen our foes. [google.com]
This is quite true, as most of the criticism of Bush is criticizing him for doing the right thing. No where has this been more obvious than Howard Dean's opposition to Bush and support of Saddam Hussein.
Federal disclosure records show that Clark lobbied directly on "information transfers, airline security, and homeland security issues" for Acxiom. The company was pushing the by now notorious CAPPS II, a creepy program designed to profile all airline passengers. Clark, who reportedly got $800,000 in fees for his work, lobbied the Justice Department, CIA, and Department of Transportation. According to The Arkansas Democrat Gazette, he met personally with Vice President Dick Cheney.
I have to admit - that right after 9/11, if NASA asked for a passenger list - I'd would have probably given it to them as fast as possible.
The trouble comes, though, is when a passanger asked me: "Did you share my data with anybody?"
I *would* have told them "Yeah... NASA got a copy. Got a problem with that?"
Airplanse travel over provate and public property - there should be no expecation of pricacy. When a 747 flies over my house - I expect the governemnt to protect me by making sure that some fundelementalist asshole isen't about to crash the plaine into my house.
So what if NASA got a copy of the files ? - it's the hining that's desturbing.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
Seems to me that in a true and mature democracy, The REAL issue to be discussed is how we would be granting the least amount of privacy to those public officials that wield the most power in our government.
They are the very ones we should be keeping our eyes on.
Yes, of course: for the sake of preventing terrorism, a certain limited amount of privacy should be given up by EVERYONE. That's simple common sense and we shouldn't be throwing a freakin tizzie over it. We should always be told how much scrutiny we are under, and there should be controls over it. But overall: Come on, just face the fuckin music!
But the REAL issue should be: the more government/public power a person has in a truly open society, the more public scrutiny he NEEDS to be under: this is so damned logical and obvious.
Yes, the Clinton-haters abused this concept when they savaged his sexual life for political reasons. But the reality is: poetic justice was done. Rightly, such behavior backfired on them. (Clinton would have been elected for a third time, easy!)
But there is a perfect example before us now, showing us why we need to hold public officials fully and completely accountable: the amount of secrecy RIGHT NOW in the Bush White House is very SUSPECT.
They should be investigated on numerous accounts: the secret energy meetings (Hello: It's ENRON!);
The pre 9-11 White House security briefings, why must they be secret? (Just put two-plus-two together: Look at the incompetence. These guys were sleeping at the wheel, folks!);
What about the false report that Valerie Plame knew to be false? Where did that funky report from Niger REALLY come from? Who wrote it? WHY? Such lies and backroom manipulations and overall incomptence should be investigated, exposed, and those involved should be held accountable.
Jesus, America! Are you sleeping???
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/01/17/Tampabay/Snippy
Actualy, the cards are used to hide the fact that they are raising the price of goods.
Pre-card, an item would cost a buck.
Now, that same item costs 3 bucks without a card, and 1.75 with a card. They know there data is crap. Hell, half the time I see people forget their cards, and the cashier just uses one that they have lying around.
it's reasonable to expect the price of goods to climb, but the amount they jump when a store uses a card is exploitive.
saadly, a lot of people don't realize this, and stop going to stores that kept there prices low, but didn't have a card system. So those stores now have a card system, and increased there cost to pay for the system.
Good news is, now that everybody gotone, market forces(HA get it MARKET forces!) should stop the rapid price increase.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
They're just checking for illegal aliens.
Yes, the Clinton-haters abused this concept when they savaged his sexual life for political reasons
No, his conduct in his public office was savaged. No one ever made an issue about his private life, or whate he did in the bedroom.
(Clinton would have been elected for a third time, easy!)
It depends on who would have run against him. Chances are, Clinton would have lost. One of the reasons Gore lost the election was that he had the baggage of the Clinton Administration and the felonies Bill Clinton committed.
They should be investigated on numerous accounts: the secret energy meetings (Hello: It's ENRON!)
There is no reason to investigate this. After all, look what happened to Enron after the meetings: it blew up.
Where did that funky report from Niger REALLY come from
It came from.... Niger!
Jesus, America! Are you sleeping???
No, we're wide awake now. We were asleep during the Nixon...I mean Clinton years.
Were you so attached to the dump that was the old Wayne County Airport? Most travellers weren't
While the old terminal had a problem in that it reeked, the new Northwest Terminal has a problem in that you can't get water out of the faucets. Instead of turning on and off like regular faucets, you have to flap your hands madly at red censors, sometimes producing a weak trickle, but usually not.
First of all you're taking it to the extreme. Second, if a government agency asked me for that information I would provide it. Though it may be redundant I'll say it again. If you truly have nothing to hide, giving that information to the government shouldn't bother you.
Ok, I guess relying on memory from five years ago isn't so good... I couldn't find anything on google related to NWA actually paying for construction costs, but in any case they helped design it and it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that the terminal wouldn't be there if not for NWA.
Look at the way there was support for the war before it began
You mean before Bush retaliated? The war was well under way before Bush retaliated: Saddam Hussein was engaging in aggression against U.S. peacekeepers, and he had violated the cease fire.
No, the people were not sheep, and did not follow the lies of the dominant left-wing media.
(even though the administration could not back up its claims)
No, the administration backed up its claims.
no strong outcry over the Patriot Act or its sequel
Because the people are smart to see that the Chicken Little outcry is all over nothing.
I was sure the submitter meant the NSA but looking at the story it really was NASA.
Are they going to be sharing this info with the Martian Immigration Service?
NASA is the National AERONAUTICS and Space Admin. The space program gets all the press. But they do a LOT of work on all aspects of commercial air flight.
And while their work on cutting edge aircraft design (civilian, military, and research platforms) gets most of the press on their airflight side, they're involved in a lot of other stuff: Flight simulation, air traffic control, baggage searching devices...
And, as you can now see, stealth people-tracking databases for the "war on terror".
I'd suggest you contact your legislator if you object. But that might get me a heavy fine. (Follow this link {cloned from my current signature} to see what I'm talking about.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
isnt this ..... illegal??
i guess not..
but shouldn't it be???
i would say yes.
Oh, then there was the lies about why we went to war, it was for the WMD! Oh wait, no it was because Saddam was in connection with Al Qaeda! Oh no, wait, thats wrong too. It's beacuse he was an evil dictator, yeah! Thats the ticket.
All of those were valid reasons to stop Saddam's aggression (except for the Al Quada link, which Bush never claimed)
and then continueing to further piss on the bill of rights
The Patriot Act does not damage the bill of rights at all. If you want to look at damaging the bill of rights, look at McCain-Feingold. For the first time, the law prevents individuals from criticizing people in office. Yes, Bush signed it, but the left-wing was clamoring for this.
Please, go back to watching Faux news you loser
You must mean Fox News. Since it is fair and balanced, and much more factual, those who believe that the media should only be left-wing (such as CNN) really hate it and want it censored.
Though to be fair, all US airlines suck compared to their European or Asian counterparts. I've travelled on several.
... because you seem to be typing with just the one hand...
"To the Moon, al-Hassan! To the Moon!"
As the former owner of a Nortwest Frequent Flyer card (which I just cut up on reading this story)
?? You don't have to use NWA WorldPerks miles for just NWA flights. You can cash them in on Continental, Delta, and KLM flights as well.
If you were on a northwest operated aircraft, some of it is. PNR data is shared between carriers on different reservation networks only to the extent necessary to maintain codeshare or coticketing arrangements. If you booked thru delta but flew Northwest, most likely Northwest has your name, ticket numbers (on delta ticket stock), flight numbers, meal preferences and luggage data. If the Delta agents were conscienscious, Northwest may also have your phone number(s). It's not likely they'd have transmitted your credit card number because payment info is not part of the data transmitted between reservation systems.
> They were once my favorite airline
Let me guess, you don't live near Detroit nor the Twin Cities.
Ads are broken.
opinion != fact, my friend
If an opinion is factual, then opinion = fact. If it is not, then opinion != fact.
Personally I think the right thing would have been to put all our forces on the task of tracking down osama, instead of getting sidetracked on Iraq
Why not go after both terrorist leaders?
which had no proven connection to the terrorist attacks against us
There are plenty of proven connections.
we then could have gone after Sadam, possibly with international backing
We already did, with a coalition of 60 nations. Sorry, we can do more than one thing at one time.
And the government, and the people within it, have never misused their powers or information that has been provided to them.
Nixon jumps out at me, for some reason here.
Northwest, Continental, Delta, and KLM codeshare their flights. In fact, the four are very tightly knit... most area once served by both Northwest and Continental are now just served by one of the two, especially after the 1998 "kind of a merger".
At any rate, you need to carefully read the segment data when you book your flights online... this includes the plane type, operator ("Delta Flight 555 Operated by Northwest Flight 333"), and other little tidbits.
In my personal experience, I rank Delta and Northwest in the middle of the pack... Continental and American a bit higher. JetBlue and Frontier have better in-flight entertainment, but has a higher ratio of "scary seatmates". Southwest is just plain scary. But really, it's all cattle class (or cattle class plus) unless you fly Virgin Upper Class. Give it up for roadtrips!
Is there a way to mod this as "misguided"?
Now, this info is on 5 CDs. How can *anyone* believe that it stayed on those CDs, and din't make the rounds from FBI to NSA to CIA to DHS to whatever other 3 letter acroymn that is supposed to 'protect us'?
That information is everywhere you don't want it to be - and you won't know what they're doing with it until it bites you in the ass.
I guarantee that this will be abused - everything else has, why would this be anything different.
I wonder if good ol' boy George would be allowed to fly if the CAPPS2 system had access to his military AWOL status, his DUI, his credit scores, and his drug abuse.
Oh, wait. Invasive and ineffective programs like these are only for the 'commoners'.
Since it was the CIA that helped train and fund most of the basic infrastructure of al-Qaeda
The CIA actually had nothing to do with Al Quada and bin Laden. The CIA actually funded Mujahadeen nationalists fighting against the Soviets many years ago. These were also hardline Muslims.
Since these old guys were hardline Muslims in Afghanistan, and the Taliban (a much more recent thing) is also, people who don't know the details confuse them. That sort of explains the ignorance of thinking that the CIA funded the Taliban.... However, al Quada is/was a Saudi organization, and had nothing to do with CIA funding "similar" groups.
...my tin hat and ear muffs, they won't get me.
I wonder if good ol' boy George would be allowed to fly if the CAPPS2 system had access to his military AWOL status, his DUI, his credit scores, and his drug abuse.
There is no evidence of AWOL. This tale was made up by the fringe bush-haters, and all traces back to a rumor from someone's wife. If he had gone AWOL, it would be in military records. DUI? Fox News exposed this, the fact of it is old history. Drug abuse? No one can find any evidence of this: the only reason the "Drug abuse" story about Bush is there is because someone made it up because it sounds bad, and people that don't like Bush repeated it..... because it sounds bad.
The Bush AWOL story and drug story, is, like the story of Clinton executing dozens of opponents secretly in "arkancides", is just fiction made up by fringe haters.
I've never had much trouble with Northwest in the Minneapolis area, no worse than any of the other major carriers (Continental, Delta, American). What does irritate me is how codesharing and alliances has left many cities with far fewer flight choices. Many areas once served by both Continental and Northwest are now served only by one of the two. Cities that once had multiple 737-sized flights by American and TWA are now stuck with a couple 757-sized American flights following that buyout. And what's up with United? I used to see United flights all over the place, and now I'm lucky if I see a "United Express" Embrier commuter.
i'm all out of cookies today
If Jetblue jumped off a bridge, would you?
No, but if Continental did...
[insert rant about NWA/Continental "almost a merger" alliance...]
I am not "so wrong". Almost all of the points in your link are incorrect.
One that is true, however "An Evil Leader is typically not elected by a majority of the voters", happens to apply also to Bill Clinton, who did NOT get a majority in either of his elections.
The part after that "but rather, he is selected by an elite group of cronies from his own political party with close ties to his family." is true for neither Bush nor Clinton. Both of them won votes in enough states to win the electoral collage. That is the Constitution.
The parts about retaliating against aggressive countries apply to FDR going against Hitler. I guess FDR was an evil ruler!
The rest are totally lies. One of the worst accusations of Bush is "An Evil Leader does not tolerate dissent, and frequently asserts that anyone who opposes his views or agenda is a traitor. Dissent among the citizenry is often met with fierce opposition by armed riot squads."
(The only times that riots squads have come into play have been in the protests against free and fair trade, and the protesters have always started the violence. These anti-freedom rallies, as you probably do not recall, also occured under Clinton's administration)
Dissent, against Bush, has flourished unchecked. Ask Al Franken and Howard Dean how many "armed riots squads" have bothered them. The guy who made this web site has made a lot of anti-American lies, yet his site is still up. Of course it is.
I have a very simple rule for people concerned about privacy (and I am): PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS. Sacrifice a little comfort and convenience for once, in order to uphold a principle that you claim is important to you (I do).
Why not go after both terrorist leaders?
Because the Bush administration is incapable of going after both. He focused on Saddam, while ignoring the real terrorist threat.
Bush ignored the threat posed by Al Qaida before 9/11 despte numerous warnings from the Clinton administration, and chose to focus on Saddam instead. Bush accused the Clinton administration of being obsessed with terrorism. Bush ignored the terrorist threat, and we were hit. Thousands died.
We invaded Iraq, and their terrible army crumpled within days-- they never posed a serious threat to the US. Nearly a year later, we haven't found any weapons of mass destruction, except for some rusty shells containing blister agents which didn't pose a serious threat to the US.
It's been more then 2 years since the 9/11 attacks, and Bush still has not found the terrorists responsible for the attacks. He is STILL ignoring the terrorist threat. Because of this, we will be hit again, and people will die.
There are plenty of proven connections.
You are a liar. Where is your evidence?
We already did, with a coalition of 60 nations.
Nice propaganda. Most of those nations didn't contribute anything signifigant.
In Canada, the airlines would be liable for damages from every customer for this (assuming there was no regulation requiring them to share the information).
IANAL
PIPEDA
I booked my trip through NASA and ended up in a Soyuz capsule instead.
Oh well, at least I didn't get stuck on Northwest.
In case any of you are looking for a good airline, go Southwest. If you fly four times (must purchase online)-- that's 4 round-trip tickets, they give you one free round-trip anywhere in the US. Not bad, and their prices are cheap.
Sorry, that was an advertisement for them, but I've flown all of the major airlines, and SW is 10x better than any of the others.
You know, when someone does this is always slightly ticks me off. I don't have anything to hide either, yet you won't be getting my personal information because it is... Yes, PERSONAL. It's something that YOU as an outsider got nothing to to with. If you want it, you can go to some nasty place with brimstone and fire. My personal information simply isn't any of your concern.
Then again, by law I am supposed to carry around and ID at all times. Fair enough. So a police officer walks up to me and asks me for my ID. Then I will show it to him/her because, as a police officer enforcing the law in the country where I currently reside, I am obliged to do so. I might not be happy about it but hey, it's the law and I don't have anything to hide.
That isn't called "having something to hide", it's called "having something that isn't any of your damned concern". Go bother yourself with something that IS your concern.
Hate me!
"Nearly a year later, we haven't found any weapons of mass destruction, except for some rusty shells containing blister agents which didn't pose a serious threat to the US."
Could you please point me to where they found out it was true? Last I heard, it was _suspected_ they had blister agents. Big Difference.
Even so...after over 10 years, wouldn't the stuff be equivilent to a bad fart by now?
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
I think "dangerously naive" would be more appropriate. Amerika is fast heading towards fascism.
Because the Bush administration is incapable of going after both. He focused on Saddam, while ignoring the real terrorist threat.
By focusing on Saddam, he was focusing on a real terrorist threat. However, he was also focusing on others, apprehending several Taliban/Al Quada terrorists in Afghanistan at the same time as he was taking care of the terrorists in Iraq.
It's been more then 2 years since the 9/11 attacks, and Bush still has not found the terrorists responsible for the attacks. He is STILL ignoring the terrorist threat. Because of this, we will be hit again, and people will die.
Now, that is a lie. Many Al Quada terrorists have been captured already. He is dealing effectively with the terrorist threat.
Bush ignored the threat posed by Al Qaida before 9/11 despte numerous warnings from the Clinton administration
Another lie. It was Clinton who refused to take bin Laden when someone offered to hand him over.
We invaded Iraq, and their terrible army crumpled within days-- they never posed a serious threat to the US.
His actual army did not pose a threat to the U.S. but no one said it did. His "secret" terror programs did pose a threat to the U.S. and other countries. No more.
You are a liar. Where is your evidence?
There is a lot of evidence and proof of Saddam's involvement in terrorism. We can start with his funding of armies trying to exterminate the Israelis.
Nice propaganda. Most of those nations didn't contribute anything signifigant.
Translation of "propaganda": facts you don't agree with. Most of them did not, but they decided to side with good, instead of with evil as France did. And, clearly, as you do: you sure are sorry to see a major terrorist leader go.
when one government agency gets something like this... there is no way to tell who else they share it with. Since they are not bound by any privacy concerns or any tort liability on the matter... they can do what they want with the information. This came to mind when someone posted that it SURELY must have been the NSA who got these records AND NOT NASA. Well... who says that NASA didn't also share this data with the NSA and whoever else wanted to play with it? HOPEFULLY a new administration will put their foot down on these shenanegans.
. SLASHDOT: Home of the vicious nerd.
Wow, secret searches by the feds
The searches still require warrants (despite phony ACLU claims).
Wrong. There are lots of searches that do not require warrents, and the recent legislation put into law by Mr. Bush -- the Intelligence Authroization Act for Fiscal Year 2004 does two things. First, it redefines financial institution to include just about everything. Second, it grants FBI power to obtain records (and forbid the requestee from reporting the request to the target) from a financial institution without requiring permission from a judge. No court order is needed to access records held by financial institutions, nor does the FBI need to prove just cause. It is a blank check. More detailed info is in a Wired article
The fact that Patriot II would have allowed the executive branch to remove someones citizenhip based on a whim
No, it would not. The person being removed would only be removed if they became a terrorist for an enemy foreign interest. Not a "whim".
Ok smart ass. Define Terrorist so that it isn't just up to the "whim" of the government. Lately what passes for "terrorist activity" is quite laughable. Law inforcement has classified minor drug offenders, as they coudl be rasing money for terrorist activities. Untill 'terrorist' is defined, it is a 'whim'.
Surely in order for this to work NASA would have to know who on the list was a terrorist and who wasn't. It's like giving somebody a list of people's age and weight (and no other information) and asking them to figure out a system for knowing if they voted republican or not, it's just impossible to do without knowing voting trends for those weights and ages.
The only way I could see this being used is to look at who gets drunk and causes problems on flights (I assume that airlines keep information on this) and place extra staff on flights with a high number of these types of people and while that's not a bad idea it's hardly "a matter of national security"
In Soviet Russia Slashdot cliches use you
America is heading away from fascism, compared to Clinton years.
Look at the definition of the word fascism: "A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."
One by one: socioeconomic controls? This President has been cutting taxes for the middle class, lessening control over our wallets. Suppression of opposition? Same as before, there are always Limbaughs and Frankens wailing. Beligerent nationalism? This problem is far far away (look at how Iraq will be turned over to Iraqi control about a year after Saddam forced an invasion to stop his aggression). Racism? Clinton appointed racists in top civil rights posts, while Bush instead believes in equal rights.
It's "mispeaking yourself" Understand the difference?
Most of them did not, but they decided to side with good, instead of with evil as France did.
Ah, the telltale signature of the drooling statist quasi-Patriot: Mindless Franch bashing
DUI
Cocaine (from a right wing puplication!)
I'm sure you can find more sources if you look, I just went as fast I could, and tried to pick sources that are generally trusted to be accurate.
There will always be those who say 'if the records aren't there, how can it be true?', but when you are in charge of who keeps them, where they are kept, and who has access to them, you can certainly manipulate them.
Does the head IT guy at a company ever get busted for looking at porn?...
People who accuse dissenters of being un-American are themselves traitors.
No, people who point out the fact of other individuals being "un-American" by expressing hatred of the country and its people are not traitors. They are doing nothing more than expressing free speech.
The person who actually is "un-American" is much more a traitor than the person who points this out.
Dissent and debate are the essence of Democracy.
Dissent based on ignorance is the essence of idiocy. So is debating in support of a lie.
Yet one more reason I will never fly on their airline. Those "Body Nazis" were the first to ban smoking on international flights. That's when they lost me as a customer, permanently.
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
If it keeps me from getting blown up in any way, shape, or form, or anyone else for that matter, give it all over to Big Brother
Not only are these guys absolute liars, but they don't have a shread of remorse FOR LYING!
Our Govt. these days reeks of Hitlerism where people try to justify things by claiming they were "only following orders". But then again, when you have a lying sack of shit for a President, you should expect HIS diharrea to flow downhill!
Those "Body Nazis" were the first to ban smoking on international flights. That's when they lost me as a customer, permanently.
I respect your right to smoke. However, you should keep it to yourself. Do not force others to smoke. Smoking is an unusual "habit" in that it is forced on others a lot of the time. This is why it gets banned.
Were you willing to do this: that is, ask permission of everyone before lighting up on airplane, before you forced everyone else on the plane to "enjoy" your cigarette?
I seriously doubt he believes what he's saying. He's just trying to get a rise out of everyone and drag this out as long as possible so he can brag to his troll friends about his mastubatory exploits.
"while Bush instead believes in equal rights"
Yeah...equal rights for the TOP TWO PERCENT of wealthy people"
Actually, he has opposed racism rather consistently, for all regardless of wealth. In one example, he weighed in on a case where a major university went to the Supreme Court because they had an admissions policy that punished students for having the wrong skin color. Bush, of course, sided against the racists.
As far as wealth goes, most of his fair and proportional tax cuts have gone to the middle class. After the Bush tax cuts, the rich still pay a higher percentage.
Well, you know they had to do something with the people they reassigned because their pure incompetance caused the Columbia tragedy. Instead, they put them on this new project!
More people lie more And then it becomes 'not wrong' So who do we trust?
Just talking about modern "Vichy France" here. They strongly stood up for Saddam Hussein (as strong as the French can that is, which does not amount to much). When given a choice, the government sided with evil instead of good. This is the same country where hundreds of thousands march in "Down with the Jews" rallies.
If the government/police want information on my habits, they better damn well be using it in connection with a real investigation on me, with specific charges. And this information had better damn well benn obtained via court order.
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
Note that under 15 USC 45(a), common carriers and air carriers are exempt. Even if they weren't, I'm sure the reality is that the FTC wouldn't pursue it.
One way the Federal Government could violate a nondisclosure agreement between Northwest and passengers is based on civil immunity, which the Federal governement is granted in claims arising out of breach of contract. Under Constitutional law,applying a strict scrutiny approach (because a fundamental right of privacy is at issue) to the Feds acquisition of personal data from Northwest, the Feds could argue that there were no less necessary means for monitoring security during times of national emergency. Was there a statute passed that allowed them to get the info from Northwest? After I write that, I beleive there may be alternative means and that is Northwest disclosing to the passengers that any information used in reserving a flight is subject to the disclosure to Federal Authorities- maybe this language can be used in the future!!!!
Jax
Ah, perhaps I now understand the purpose of Bush's proposed increase in funding for NASA.
so it was before all this
"politcally correct" bullshit was in place.
It has nothing to do with "political correctness". It is all about rude SOB's who don't have the courtesy to ask those nearby before they force them to smoke.
Second, If you'll recall, the planes had their designated smoking areas (called "the smoking section" back then) in the rear of the plane
I do recall. The entire PLANE was a smoking section, regardless of designation. The smoke from the back did in fact drift front. Those sitting in front were forced to "enjoy your cigarettes" though it was desginated a no-smoking area.
If things had progressed differently, the airlines probably would have been able to make a simple partition to ensure no smoke "leakage" occurred, but it was much cheaper and easier just to ban it entirely
It would not have worked. Smokers are rude SOB's who violate non-smoking sections anyway: if they had to walk through the non-smoking section, they are lighting up half way through. Even then, you'd have the flight attendants forced to work in the concentrated carcinogens of the "designated" smoking area. And then you get the possible terrorist worries due to drug addicts insisting on open flames in the airplane cabin.
Once again many had to suffer due to a vocal few.
No. Now, the many don't have to suffer because the few want to force them to smoke whether they want to or not. I don't care if you smoke as long as you keep it to yourself.
If you "suffer" because you can't force people to breathe your smoke on a long airplane flight, you really have addiction issues you should deal with first.
A ban is necessary because way to many smokers lack common courtesy.
Every year of my adult life, I have had to submit an accounting of my income to the IRS. How can it be that I, a law-abiding citizen, am compelled by the threat of fines and imprisonment to bare the details of my private financial life to the monster welfare state to assist it in feeding its socialist machine while the activist judiciary "discovers" privacy "rights" in The Constitution for sodomites and the murderers of the unborn?
Until that abomination that is the 16th amendment is repealed, worrying about surveillance and other government intrusion is no more than straightening the deck chairs on the Titanic as it sinks.
Besides, if the logical conclusion of your slippery slope is that all the leftists who work so hard to undermine the central ideas behind our great nation are put into slave labor gulags, "re-education" camps, or political prisons (as were/are the enemies of their heroes: Stalin, Castro, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, etc.), then I say, "FASTER, PLEASE!"
OK, not nearly as fast or convenient as air travel, but I don't feel the heavy hand of "homeland security" when I take Amtrack. It's such a pleasant, relaxing way of travel and although it's statistically safer, you have the distinct advantage of already being on the ground in the event of a calamity. Although I'm by no means advocating this, CCW holders can probably carry without anyone ever knowing.
Actually, he did, unless by "NOT get a majority" you really meant "NOT NOT get a majority".
No, read it: "Clinton did not get a majority" in either election. Please check the facts on this. He got less than 50%. You can't get a majority that way.
Clinton won the majority during BOTH the 1992 and 1996 elections.... Let's review: During the 1992 election, Clinton received 43% of the popular votes
You make my case. A majority is in fact "The greater number or part; a number more than half of the total". 43% is less than half.
"1996, Clinton received 49.24% of the popular votes"
Still short of a majority, but by a smaller margin.
By all counts, Clinton won the majority vote in both elections
By the counts you present (which I will not contest), Clinton did not have a majority in either election.
Let's compare that to the 2000 election, where Gore received a 48.38% majority of the popular vote, but only 49.4% of the electoral college. Bush lost the popular election, with a 47.87% minority
So? Bush, Gore, and Clinton did not get a majority. All of the totals you mention are short of the 50% which is required.
The Dems won't ever forgive the Repubs because they were such asshole during the Entire Clinton term
Maybe it is time for the Dems to apologize for being assholes. Clinton committed crimes in office, and the Democrats basically said "does not matter, since he is a Democrat". They threw out principle for party.
Contrast this with the Republicans, during the similar Nixon times. A lot more of them said that "crime is crime, even if the President doing it is a Republican".
The middle and the right parts of the Democrats packed up and left during the Clinton years.
I have no religion. I simply live in reality, I don't try to bend my perception of it to fit ancient notions and superstitions.
...when in fact, you guys all have religions. Unless, by some slim chance, you are an agnostic.
The same sort of claim is made by Pat Robertson and the Ayatollahs. Their view, like yours, is superior, factual, and above religion. I can even find quotes from these guys where they say that their view is not religion at all.
Well, yes, and quite a few of us have also learned that it runs much deeper than just a simple decision made by the current president.
There's a REAL good chance that no matter who becomes president, this sort of thing will continue. The leaders of govt. organizations (you know, the typical 3 letter bureaus like the FBI, CIA, IRS, NSA, ATF) want more tools at their disposal to do their jobs -- "privacy" be dammed.
The president simply can't wave his hand or sign a piece of paper and make all of this go away. All of those groups serve useful purposes and nobody's likely to just abolish them completely while in their term of office.
While it IS true that the lines are quite blurred between "Democrat" and "Republican" nowdays - it's simple-minded thinking to blame these "big brother" issues squarely on the president, no matter what their supposed allegiance is politically. You've got all those senators and congressmen getting paid off/bribed to vote one way or the other, and legislation being written with sneaky, unrelated legal changes constantly trying to be snuck through. You've got huge power struggles between governmental agencies, and lots of "behind the scenes" bargaining for the "lesser of two evils" that the general public never sees when we ask "Why the h*ll did the president just sign THAT into law??"
All we can really do is speak out loudly and often when we see these injustices happen - so they can't just start running everything right past us.
A quote:
"Of all the rights of the citizen, few are of greater importance or more essential to his peace and happiness than the right of personal security, and that involves, not merely protection of his person from assault, but exemption of his private affairs, books, and papers from the inspection and scrutiny of others. Without the enjoyment of this right, all other rights would lose half their value." [bold added] [Justice Field in In re Pacific Railway Commission, 32 F. 241, 250 (N.D. Cal. 1887).]
I think this is a qood reply to those citizens willing to shed their civil rights since they claim never to do anything wrong.
This quote was later quoted in a Supreme Court opinion by Justice Harlan in Interstate Commerce Comm'n v. Brimson, 154 U.S. 447, 489 (1894).
Justice Harlan continued "The principles laid down in this opinion affect the very essence of constitutional liberty and security . . . they apply to all invasions on the part of the government and its employes [sic] of the sanctity of a man's home and the privacies of life." [Interstate Commerce Comm'n v. Brimson, 154 U.S. 447, 489 (1894).]
Enron failed because it was run by con-men who thought that having their own puppet in the White House was more important than running an honest business operation
They also failed because they thought they still had a puppet like they did during the Clinton years, when they launched all their scams. Instead, Bush called Lay "kenny boy" and thumbed his nose at them when they fell apart.
The report was proven to be a fraud
British intelligence still stands by it.
Please, become better informed as to the facts.
I did. Hint: you don't get facts from nutcase commentators. try real news.
And then consider at least exploring your capacity for critical thinking
We all should. Some, such as you, more than others.
Were you home-schooled by Mommy and her Bible?
I don't know what this says about anything, except maybe that you are a religious bigot.
What did you like best about flying Northwest? The chronic tardiness or the spate of drunken pilots flying to an incorrect airport?
It sounds like such a law could be useful for you Americans right now..
Facts are facts, with or without an account. I've posted plenty.
Such as the fact that the Enron scams did, indeed, flourish and start under the Clinton administration.
The law doesn't apply to national security work. They're off scott free.
Which today is just about everything.
Apparently they realized earlier than most that looking out for the health of their passengers and crew was more important than pandering to your toxic addiction. Good for them.
bkr
saadly, a lot of people don't realize this, and stop going to stores that kept there prices low, but didn't have a card system. So those stores now have a card system, and increased there cost to pay for the system.
I suppose that's one good thing about Florida - Publix Supermarkets. Publix is entirely employee-owned, doesn't have any kind of card program in place, and has reasonable prices. Locally, they also have a guarantee that all the cashier lanes will be staffed between 5 and 7pm - I wish more supermarkets would follow their lead WRT customer service and focus.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
...whereas the US just goes around the world coercively sorting things out in a way it hopes will optimally serve its interests."
"the US is not an empire. Empires occupy territories permanently. The US in fact is strongly anti-imperialist and puts global interest before even its own interest, engaging in no imperialist expansion, and stopping other countries that engage in this."
Anyone outside the US who doesn't appreciate that obviously "hates us because of our freedom".
This is typically true. This is the reason for Al Quada enmity. The hatred of the U.S. based in the ignorance of the hater.
"With us" == "good", "Against us" == "evil".
Sometimes, sometimes not. In the case of the efforts against Saddam and on behalf of Iraq, it is quite true.
One could look deeper into issues
I've done it. You should try it sometime.
Much easier to trust the leader. He knows
Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. Since 2000, we've had one that can be trusted. Before that, not.
I have the right to travel as I see fit as long as I'm not violating anyone else's rights. Buy a clue.
Amtrak Sharing Rider Information, Profit from Seizures, with DEA
Amtrak is providing the DEA with ticketing information about passengers in an effort to stem the flow of illegal drugs. DEA agents have direct access to an Amtrak computer that contains information on passenger names, origination points, destinations, and payment information. In exchange for access to the database, Amtrak receives 10% of whatever seizures the DEA makes using the information.
- Amtrak Helps DEA Hunt Drug Couriers, Albuquerque Journal, April 11, 2001. (Ed.: link broken)
- Amtrak shares passenger info with DEA for drug prosecutions, Declan
- Your Rights Online: Keeping DEA In The Loop About Amtrak Travelers, Slashdot, April 15, 2001.
- Amtrak 'Sharing' Information With D.E.A., New York Times, April 15, 2001 (registration required).
So, the airlines aren't the only ones turning over passenger data to the government; Amtrak has been doing it even before 9/11. Their willingness to give up information for cash in the past leads me to believe they will likely do so in the future. And where does a huge chunk of their cash come from? The federal government (about $1 billion last year).McCullagh's politechbot.com, April 11, 2001.
You might think that Amtrak could be tempted to give up a lot of passenger data in return for $1 billion. Well, what if the feds doubled that? Senator Olympia Snowe (R) wants to raise Amtrak's funding to $2 billion a year over the next six years, with an additional $48 billion for maintenance and new construction. It's probably just coincidence that Snowe introduced a bill (S. 1599) pushing for "the Secretary of Homeland Security to conduct a study of the feasibility of implementing a program for the full screening of passengers, baggage, and cargo on Amtrak trains, and for other purposes." The best part is section 1.b, which says:
PILOT PROGRAM- As part of the study under subsection (a), the Secretary shall conduct a pilot program of random security screening of passengers and baggage at 5 of the 10 busiest passenger rail stations served by Amtrak (measured by the average number of boardings of Amtrak passenger trains) and at up to five additional rail stations served by Amtrak that are selected by the Secretary. In selecting the additional train stations the Secretary shall attempt to achieve a distribution of participating stations in terms of geographic location and size.
I feel safer already!
Facts can be distorted in all sorts of way to manipulate people
You are very right, which is why I have learned to distrust the agenda left-wing media that dominates in the United States.
I am in awe of your black and white world view
No, it is just an accurate world view. Some things are black, some are white, and some are shades of grey.
In Europe, the new Galileo satelite system is being designed. It will also be capable of tracking car movements, "for toll purposes". Each car who wants to enter a "toll perimeter" (like Amsterdam will be) will be equipped with a box which sends signals. Apart from the easy toll payment system, this system also means that somewhere, there is a database which has a FULL TRACKING OF EVERY PLACE I (MY CAR) HAS BEEN TO IN A PERIOD. How nice! What's after that? GPS-watch? GPS tooth-implant? Getting ready for the mark already?
I will make it a point to fly Northwest because their airline is safer because they are taking measures to screen passengers.
Good job Northwest!!!
If you think CNN (Conservative News Network) is left wing, then I must politely ask what you are smoking
Measured from the center, CNN is left-wing. CNN is only right-wing if you stand on the far fringe and measure everything as being to the right of you (which is just about everything) as "right-wing"
CNN is right-wing enough to make any self-respecting liberal sick
Most liberals (I guess they are not self-respecting) are comfortable with Ted Turner's left-wing network.
They never pointed out the lack of justification for the the Iraq war
Only a far-left fringe does not recognize overwhelming justification for retaliating for Saddam's aggression. In any case, you are wrong: CNN presented many stories about opposition and questions about Bush's reasons.
and I have not once heard them even mention the Patriot Act.
You are so easily proven wrong. The cnn.com web site documents many stories by CNN aired about it. Just because you never turn it on does not mean that they do not air it. In fact, since you appear to never turn CNN on, no wonder you know nothing about it.
These are things which are important and relevant to the US public, but (apparently due to conservative bias) CNN omits them.
Since CNN has reported on both....
don't have a problem with the continued existence of conservative drivel like CNN or even fox news.
One is liberal, the other is centrist. Your real problem is babbling about news agencies you don't know anything about.
However, I think that there need to be more liberal news sources available to the average American, to prevent American voters from getting such a biased view of the world
There are already 4 major liberal news organizations to help viewers get the biased view that you want them to get.
The IRS ruling you mention does nothing but allow the IRS to tax the activities of a 501 non-profit when it runs ads directly intended to influence an election. It sets forth in very explicit terms all of the conditions under which a non-profit may, under IRS rules, run political or issue ads, and they all seem very reasonable to me. The whole thing amounts to "Gun Owners of America can't run ads explicitly promoting a candidate for office". It's actually a bit less restrictive than that, even.
Page 5 of the ruling explicitly allows such groups to urge their members or the public to communicate with a legislator under the following conditions:
How is that at all unreasonable? GOA is supposed to be supporting gun rights-- if it wants to support Senator Bob, it can damn well play under the same rules other political parties do, instead of hiding behind its status as an "issue group" to gain special advantage. And that's all this ruling says.I'm as paranoid as the next guy about obscure executive-branch rules and regulations, but maybe you ought to actually read the stuff your gun club is getting its panties in a twist about (specifically, pages 4 and 5 of the IRS ruling, in this instance) before going off half-cocked on these conspiracy theories.
Clinton was being blackmailed for his blowjobs in the oval office.
China put the squeeze on him for atomic bomb blueprints, China did get everything it asked for.
Monica Lewinski had the third highest security clearance in the country, right after Clinton and his SecDef. And she gave the Chinese everything they wanted.
So how is that Clinton's private life?
when Johnson (D) was 10 times worse. Nixon tried to gather information on his enemies, Johnson blackmailed them into submission.
Is it already 1985 ?
In fact, most people don't realize that a sequel to 1984 was written by George Orwell's third cousin's nephew (twice removed), Jack Orwell-Smith-Clemence. Critics raved, comparing it to the likes of Rama II and Dune: House Atreides. Find it at Amazon today!
Bitchslapped. Neat.
Did anyone else notice the similarity between the photo of Brzezinski from that article and Bill O'Reilly?
And the muscular cyborg German dudes dance with sexy French Canadians
Sadly, American's "More room in coach" is on its way out. They've been quietly cramming those extra few rows of seats back into their planes. Also, many of their planes never got the extra room in the first place. Seatguru.com has some more details.
When will these two groups, who have so much in common, unite to get rid of the authoritarian assholes who are controlling the two parties? The parties are about power, and as such they are poor defenders of the rights of the People
The Libertarians will never united with the Left, since the Libertarians realize that the left, with its greedy demands for taxes, and calls for government control of industry, ends up being as "authoritarian" as anything.
that the Left's agenda doesn't require an all-seeing government, and that a government can provide social services without tracking every last detail about its citizenry?
That is what the agenda of the Left results in. If the government controls your money, it controls your life.
is without doubt the worst airline I have ever flown - I once accidentally ( a friend booked the ticket ) ended up on a code shared northwest flight from Skiphol to Mumbai. So much for going KLM :(
The whole plane looked decrepit; even the flight attendant's uniforms were mismatched and ripped. Which, I'm sorry, just isn't acceptable for an airline.
no taxation without representation!
Trollarific.
----- Question authority, but not ours. Hate the man, but we're not him.
no blister agents.
that was 1/3 full so I got to sleep the whole flight. The terminal in MSP with the CPK. Oh, the memories.
Well, he could have acted like a puppet. Instead, he acted in a way that showed....there were no strings.
Not so: if his handlers are smart, they'll make sure the 'strings' are not easily seen. The ENRON fiasco was too big, and could no longer be contained. (These people were GREED INC. and dug themselves a hole far too big to hide.)
So, the alternative solution to the situation was: PLAY FOR TIME.
O'Reilly? Yeah, he is pretty good: he's an angry moderate.
Yeah, sure!
Really, I apologize in advance, but I simply can not put this in more polite terminology: Buddy, you've got your head WAY up your anus!
Yes. you appear to be bashing people who do not have your own religious faith.
Anyone who willingly subjects himself/herself to a brain-washing system (of course, he will wrongfully call - and think - it is a 'religion') that requires him to turn off at least 75% of his critical brain power in order for it to be believable, deserves nothing from normal people but utter contempt. (OK, maybe some pity and perhaps some public funding to de-program them... But not much).
>Religion and patriotism: the absolute last
>refuges for people filled with hate.
>
>Yes. hateful people like Reverend Martin Luther
>King, right?
For Martin Luther King, religion was not his 'last refuge'.
The political and social demand that all human beings deserve to be treated ethically and equally is what he commited his life to. And it was a Christianity that was reinvigorated with classical ideas of Greek philosophy, such as liberty and democracy that was his vehicle which he used to achieve that greater dream.
Religion was certainly not his 'last refuge'.
But, of course, all these are fine points I doubt you would appreciate.
Holy crap, a reasonable AC. A clear sign of the apocalypse...
I forget what 8 was for.
Oh, COME ON!
I mean, everyone knows she was not working for the Chinese. Get real.
The fact of the matter is: She was in the pay of bin Laden, who was trying to break-up the Clinton's because then Monica would be able to discover (for Saddam, of course) whether or not there really was any nuclear material available for sale in Niger.
And, OF COURSE, she could not, oh NEVER, NEVER, EVER, have been an Isreali agent...
There's no way.
"Of particular concern has been the conflation of al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's Iraw as a single, undifferentiated terrorist threat. This was a strategi error of the first order because it ignored critical differences between the two in character, threat level and susceptibility to US deterrence and military action. The result has been an unnecessary preventative war of choice against a deterred Iraw that has created a new front in the Middle East for Islamic terrorism and diverted attention and resources away from securing the American homeland against further assault by an undeterrable al-Qaeda. The war against Iraq was not integral to the GWOT, but rather a detour from it." (Any typos are mine.)
I'd love to see a democratic Iraq, which is why I initially had some faith in the Bush administration and supported the war. But let's face facts--we took a big gamble by invading Iraq, and it's not likely to work out in our favor.
Not so: if his handlers are smart
He's in charge, actually. No "handlers" as such. Typical partisan boobery "I don't like the President, so he is being controlled by someone". The right-wingers said that Hillary controlled Clinton.
Yeah, sure!
Yes, Bill O'Reilly operates from the "middle of the road". You just can't handle that, and think that anyone who does not share your views is a right-wing extremist.
Anyone who willingly subjects himself/herself to a brain-washing system
Unless it is your own brain-washing system, then it is OK, correct? Anyone who does not have your beliefs is brainwashed, right.
For Martin Luther King, religion was not his 'last refuge'.
It was his first refuge.
But, of course, all these are fine points I doubt you would appreciate
If it is true, I appreciate it.
Those leftists in the Army War College
Ummm, what? What makes them leftists? Just because they are critical of Bush's massive fuckup? I am critical as well, and I'm hardly a Leftist.
I guess they are leftists because they are lying. Bush fucked up? He stopped a major terrorist and liberated Iraq. There is no reason to be critical.
I guess they are leftists because they are lying. Bush fucked up? He stopped a major terrorist and liberated Iraq. There is no reason to be critical.
Hussein was an asshole dictator but not a terrorist, especially a "major" one. Iraq has yet to be "liberated" too. Replacing a thug regieme with a military-dominated, foreign-power-installed government is not liberation. Plus, Iraq was NEVER a threat to the US anyways.
When the "Right" lies, does that still make them "Leftists"?
Hussein was an asshole dictator but not a terrorist, especially a "major" one
He was a terrorist. He was funding antisemitic terror groups, and yes he was involved with anti-US terrorism as well.
Replacing a thug regieme with a military-dominated, foreign-power-installed government is not liberation
The Iraqis, overall, tend to disagree. Besides, later this year, the Iraqi government will be Iraqi-installed.
Flying on an airline is not a right. It is a priviledge. If you refuse to give personal informantion then don't fly.
If you have something to hide then you should not be flying.
You are preciseley the kind of person that puts other passengers at risk and should be screened out.
yes. Its NASA and not NSA. Men In Blacks team was just informeed a martian is trying to penetrate the US soil for retaliation in light of recent illegal entries in Mars. Martian aliens are now all over cuba, mexico and canada, disguised as indian offshore programmers.
Very well said, albeit depressing as hell. I'm not American, but this is rampant in the EU too. Politicos, businesses and media, all busy creating artificial focal points of power and authority. Whether it's presidencies or punch-line agendas, dumbed-down 'news' or brands as identity/lifestyle.
Reminds me of the Facade pattern ("...can be used to simplify a number of complicated object interactions into a single interface."). We, the public, only get to play with facades; the important stuff abstracted away, protected and out of reach.
It makes perfect sense, that searching for any single or few points of control/power (a president, a product/service/brand, a standard 'journalistic analysis', etc.) is naive and simplifying. As is easy to see, changing a few pieces on the chessboard doesn't change the game; we'/they're still caught playing chess...
Making noise and protesting probably is close to all we can do. Though even that can get dangerous quickly, especially in a society with fewer rights to privacy and with eroded individual and 'cultural' freedoms. Something we discussed here, about Paul Graham's fine essay What You Can't Say
It increasingly looks like "the system" fights hard to file down the teeth on the parts of democracy that can bite back and hurt "the system" itself..
Jesus, this is both frightening and depressing. And it's back to work in less than 8 hours. Unh.
668.5
While this is offensive in many ways, anyone who thinks their private data are safe from Big Brother needs to stop flying, taking the bus, driving, and go into their basement and lock the doors.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
I was going to drop my WorldPerks (frequent flier miles) from them, but then I decided to just let them rot -- for accounting purposes they are a liability to them. In the meantime I'll fly Honda air.
Chip H.
It's called irony, the point being that these guys aren't leftists.
While this is offensive in many ways, anyone who thinks their private data are safe
You is using good grammer. I ain't going to question you.
Of course it is a privelege, but that doesn't mean that a company shouldn't adhere to their privacy policy. The industry does not run us, we run it. I'm sure the "Well its my buisiness so go screw yourself, you don't need to buy my products" approach would give you a LOT of money Grass.
Unfortunately, there's plenty of reason to be critical. We alienated our allies (aside from Britain), so that when we need more troops they will be hard to come by. Also, it makes it much more likely that the soldiers who die will be American. We've never managed to restore basic security, so that the Iraqis will associate democracy with chaos. My God, we didn't secure known nuke sites!
We also disbanded the Iraqi army. In addition to potentially helping with the security problem, we wouldn't have created a large pool of unemployed, angry soldiers who just might want to join the resistance. I think that we also missed our window to break the resistance, which was before it really began.
Before just outright quitting their flight plan, mail them, and tell them why they're wrong. Cutting up your card tells them nothing, and if you tell them you've done it, they can't salvage anything.
Ask them how they're going to regain your trust. So, they lied. Sure, it's a violation of trust. It should be a horrible business practice. I *do* hope they get sued.
I would strongly prefer that they get such a deluge of mail, that they, and other airlines who would consider it, to be reminded that they serve their passengers or no one.
Someday you people are going to figure out that the ties between corporations and government are now quite strong and continue to get stronger. They have been growing slowly, inexorably over time, ever since the 1886 Supreme Court ruling that corporations have the same Constitutional protections as individuals.
How many of these corporations are already in bed with the feds? Almost all of them. The ones that aren't are the ones that don't exert any significant influence over the government, and ultimately are the ones that don't matter. But don't make the mistake of believing that the ones that are in bed with the government are somehow subservient to that government -- it's the other way around.
Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
Next thing you'll say is it's a privelige to be a US citizen.. so submit to that cavity search
its a privelige my-ass. I pay money to fly.. I am given privacy expectations.. I EXPECT THEM.
NOT BEING LIED TO!
AC
I've got nothing but venom for Northwest and this comes as no shock to me.
I've got inlaws in Grand Forks, ND and Northwest gives me nothing but grief at every turn. Heck, I've even seen them arrest a mother of 3 on CRUTCHES Dec 20/21, 2000 at MSP airport... why? She had been in the airport for 10+ hours (obviously the Mesaba operated puddle jumper to Grand Forks was cancelled because their decrepit fleet is falling apart) and may or may not have surenndered her boarding pass, leaving her with just a stub, which was apparently not good enough to get on the BUS they chartered for us to Grand Forks... so yeah, they jailed the crippled mom right before Christmas.
In the meantime, every flight I've taken on Northwest has been punctuated by delays due to their fleet falling apart at the seams, and I only bring carry-on luggage now, because I'm tired of getting my bags lost.
Even the flights I get for free I feel cheated on!
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Here is a slightly different take.
If you have nothing to hide then you should be will to say upfront how much you would pay for something before you are given a price.
Knowledge is power.
They have been growing slowly, inexorably over time, ever since the 1886 Supreme Court ruling that corporations have the same Constitutional protections as individuals.
No, they have fewer rights. For example, a corporation cannot vote. What is overlooked is the fact that a corporation is really made up of individuals. If you take away rights, you are really taking away rights for the individuals in that corporation.
Actually, by law, you are not required to carry any form of ID at all. If you're driving a vehicle, yes, you are required to have a valid license to drive said vehicle, but just walking down the street, you are not required to be carrying any ID, and cannot be forced to provide any form of ID without probable cause. I.E., a police officer cannot just "walk up to you and ask for your ID." That form of search/seizure is illegal and unconstitutional. Perhaps you should read the constitution again.
N.B.: The above applies to the United States of America. If you are residing in a country in which there are laws mandating ID-carrying and spot-searches by police, perhaps you should write to your government representative.
Real debate would have more dimensions than one, and really effective elections more choices than two
There are many political parties other than Republicans and Democrats. There's Greens, Libertarians, Reform, and many others.
The reason these other parties get few votes is that they have endeavored to serve tiny niches, instead of the general public.
No, it can mean the "group who has the most power". It doesn't necessarily mean greater then 50%:
4 : the group or political party whose votes preponderate.
The political party, group, or faction having the most power by virtue of its larger representation or electoral strength.
However, even Bush won a majority of the electoral votes, which are the only ones that count in the end. For those that slept through Government, the Founding Fathers thought the ordinary people couldn't know enough about the candidates to make an informed decision, so the electoral college was thought up as a group of informed, locally chosen citizens whom the ordinary citizens of their state would trust to pick a good president.
Does Northwest fly to Brazil? How ironic to end up in databases at both ends of a trip.
I had to go into work beacuse or I would have refuted that right wing wacko's statments myself. It's sad to see so many brains being washed by so few these days. (And they seem to love it too.)
We lose 35 HUNDRED Americans so the Govt. now has the right to spy on and remove the liberties of the remaining 300 MILLION! You obviously don't GET IT so let me EXPLAIN IT TO YOU: The terrorists failed. They KNOW they failed. What terrorism attempts to do is demoralize and frighten the people being terrorized. They FAILED to do that with Amreica! Just like the japanese terrorists of Pearl Harbor, all they managed to do was stregnthen America's resolve! We don't NEED Bush and his cronies spying on us. First off do you really believe that the 9/11 terrorists would possibly be able to get away with it now? If they tried, they would likely wound have been mummified by duct tape and thrown out the back door of the plane! Pre 9/11 there was a different attitude towards airplane terrorism. No Government official considered that airplanes culd be used as bombs (though a few sic-fi and game makers knew it all along). NOW that would not happen simply because the pilots would never leave the cockpit! Get real, what Bush et al are doing is using 9/11 as a reason to lock the barn door after the cow has escaped...and take a few hundred rights away from 300 million people in the process! Thomas Jefferson said that those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither! The residents of Iraq were safe before we Americans came. Now they're not. Yet, you who derided me for questioning my president taking away my freedom believes that it's ok for him to make it LESS SAFE in Iraq so they can have more liberty! Sorry guy, you can't have it both ways. Time eo choose!
You may find this interesting (true story): USENET has long had a kook from Australia who trolled many a newsgroup claiming to be tortured by the US government via a NASA satellite. He called himself I-Iector (IIRC) and would post messages like "Turn off your satellite NASA". He also admitted to having been diagnosed with schizophrenia, but was otherwise an intelligent character. Turns out, he was on to something!
The residents of Iraq were safe before we Americans came. Now they're not
Iraq is a lot safer now, actually. Under Saddam's rule, on average more than 20,000 a year were "disappeared" or executed in different ways. Even with the bombings now, the death rate is much lower.
Refuting by presenting fictions found on fringe nut-job web sites? Yeah right. Yes, it is sad to see so many brains washed these days. The left wing is so sore that they lost the 2000 election that they will buy any lie made up about the winner.
If I'm a "right-wing wacko", then so is the 70% or so in the country who support Bush and his great job...and if you think that 70% of the country is wacko, perhaps you should look in the mirror for the real wacko.
I'd rather land safely than get blown up.
Thanks, but I just noticed it on CNN.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
Just to share some of my bad experiences on NW.
They made me go through a lot of unnecessary administrative tasks (i.e. I needed to go down to their office and show up in person) to get my seats upgraded (from Asia to the US) instead of being able to do it through phone calls or through their frequent flier website.
They refused to upgrade my seats (from US to Asia) claiming that the business class seats were fully booked but when I boarded the plane, nearly the entire business class seats was empty (there were a few chaps). The lady sitting next to me was fuming as well as she had requested for the same upgrade and was given the same excuse. She had experienced DVT in the past and had told them of her medical condition. The flight stewardesses/stewards told her it wasn't possible to move her up despite her problems during the course of the flight.
They cancelled a flight which I had booked ahead of time without informing me or my travel agent of the changes (USA to Asia) and I only found out about it when I tried to arrange for a change:
Operator - "Sir, I'm afraid there's no such flight"
Me - "But I printed the confirmation from your website!"
Operator - "Sir, there is no such flight... but I could put you on Flight XXX at no extra charge"
Jeepers! Needless to say, they've lost ME as their customer.
--- root@127.0.0.1
Hell no it's part of his "job". he has to do it so that he can block other from accessing it:)
October 1, 1958, the official start of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), was the beginning of a rich history of unique scientific and technological achievements in human space flight, aeronautics, space science, and space applications.
There are various discount cards that allow the railway company to data mine, but you can still buy a ticket for cash and nobody raises an eyebrow.
Is anyone honestly surprised by this? We already get treated like cattle/children/morons when we go through security at the airport, now we are going to get color codes and numbers, and put on "do not fly" lists. I, for one, have not flown domestically, though I have internationally, since these new "security enhancements" were put in place. Let me get this straight, 20 people who are not American citizens blow shit up, and I have to take off my smelly shoes for you to look through? Sure, look through my underwear, tear away the last fucking shred of dignity the American public has left.
I hate sigs.
No seriously, who?
Any party not standing for centrist views can not be party to government.
...
With proportional representation you get multi-party systems and coalitions, with voting by proxy you get two party systems. Personally I feel your congress would benefit from proportional representation, with just the senate remaining per state. Oh and ditch voting by proxy for senators and maybe president.
Of course the powers that be would find that kind of government much too volatile
How many current customers stopped doing business with Northwest because of this? Most likely, the just shook their heads, muttered, "gee, that's too bad" under their breath, and carried on as usual.