N-Gage QD - Nokia's Answer To The Critics?

JayBonci writes "According to CNET News, Nokia is preparing the N-Gage QD for release at the end of June. The redesign is an attempt to address design criticisms; such as 'side-talking' and the need to take out the battery to replace the game. Will this signal new life for the console, or is it too little, too late?" We linked to leaked pictures of the N-Gage follow-up late last week on Slashdot Games, and there's further information at GameSpot, which mentions: "When bundled with a service contract, the QD is expected to sell for $99. Without subsidy from a service provider, the phone will go for $199 (with the platform's Tony Hawk title bundled in at that price)."

Comments

QD

[Slashdot Hivemind]

Quiet Death

Not with a bang but a whimper etc etc

Re:QD

[Anonymous Coward]

Qing Dynasty

The last imperial dynasty of China from 1644 to 1912.

Re:QD

[ozbird]

Not with a bang but a whimper etc etc

It's a Nokia, so it may well go off with a bang.

Re:QD

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut up! See what you've done? Mike Hawk is crying in the corner because of you!

I demand a retraction.

Re:QD

[Anonymous Coward]

:-)

I'm surprised it even got out the door in the first place. So, of all the people that work for Nokia and had the chance to look at the thing before release, no one was smart enough to figure out that replacing the battery to change the cartridge was a bad idea? Or that side-talking was not comfortable at all?

Makes for a good textbook example on product failures...

Also, one of the biggest mistakes of our time: companies focus too much on what consumers say (mostly companies addicted to CRM systems). They should also listen very carefully to people that chose not to buy (the non-consumers).

Re:QD

[Turmio]

Oh, come on, stop spreading that FUD. That was proved to be false long time ago. It's not Nokias that explode, it's the crappy 3rd party batteries that do.

Re:QD

[essreenim]

Also mentioned was the new electron microscope
it ships with so you can see that tiny screen now.

Re:QD

[asb]

Makes for a good textbook example on product failures...

Requiring to remove the battery in order to change the memory module was a technical decision they made to cut down production costs. If you have ever opened an N-Gage you'll notice that making the module removable without removing the battery would have been very easy. They chose to do it. Think about it as a sort of an assert statement which makes sure the memory module is not removed when the operaqting system is running.

The original N-Gage is made of pretty much standard Nokia components (display, processor, operating system, etc.). Making it work properly with hotswappable memory modules would have required a lot of redesigning to their existing platform, would have delayed the product and would have cost even more.

They definitely weren't clueless about these things. They just needed to get the product out before competition did (and soon they have the 2nd generation out and the competition still has only vaporware). They're only the largest mobile phone manufacturer. They actually do things in a very organized manner.

Re:QD

[ymgve]

Not being able to hotswap the memory card was extremely lazy by Nokia. The Siemens SX1, which uses the exact same OS, has support for hotswapping MMC memory cards.

Re:QD

[dj245]

It's not Nokias that explode, it's the crappy 3rd party batteries that do.

The parent said nothing of exploding batteries, they merely said the nokia platform would fade slowly, not vanish overnight.

By the way, any lithium battery will explode violently (and by violently I mean lethally) if you manage to short it out internally. Not just crappy 3rd party batteries This is why you are allowed to take only 2 lithium batteries on a plane, but not 3. The easiest way to test this would be to drive a nail through it. In actual life, extended use of a damaged battery could cause such a short.

Re:QD

[wfberg]

It's not Nokias that explode, it's the crappy 3rd party batteries that do.

Only in Nokia phones though. No reports of aftermarket parts exploding in other brands of phone.

That's like saying "It's not your Ford that explodes, it's the non-Exxon fuel! If you use Exxon fuel your Ford won't explode.."

Even if the aftermarket batteries are the "explosives" where does Nokia get off making detonators?

Re:QD

[SuperMo0]

i.e. All of the people who don't play games on their cell phone and actually use it to CALL PEOPLE?

Re:QD

[Jeff DeMaagd]

They should have looked at the original Game Boy. It had a latch on the power switch that required it to be shut off before removing the game.

This whole exercise makes me wonder exactly how their marketing group was stacking their test focus groups, and of their research of their competition.

Re:QD

[halk]

Yeah, it is conspiracy! Nokia is making batteries to explode on purpose!

Or maybe it is because Nokia is by far the biggest manufacturer (~40% marketshare) and so has by far the biggest counterfeit battery problem?

Re:QD

[Nalanthi]

I sell cell phone acc. at one of those rip of kiosks in the middle of the mall... they don't really make cheap 3rd party batteries for other phones... nokias have people making these very shoddy flashing batteries which are usually the ones that explode. The market for aftermarket nokia acc. is huge because they started it and now everyone that wants a customizable phone gets a nokia. I wouldn't blame nokia... I'd blame people like me that sell unsafe products... of course I refuse to sell them but I am not the only salesperson that works that cart.

Too little, far too late

[mao che minh]

There was almost no interest in the N-Gage due to inflated prices, poor design, demand miscalcualtion (hardly anyone was actually looking to buy such a device), and corny marketing. Removing the idiotic features won't help this late in the game.

Re:Too little, far too late

[Wellmont]

I've tested the new Nokia models, and was privey to the designs that they went through...although the interface is till "confussing" to quote one tester, their new design is a drastic step over the old design.

One problem is the fact that they are treading into an area where actual console producers, such as nintendo, would love to smash them in. They could go for another year or two and finally perfect the technology but Nintendo is known for success late in the game, and doing it cheaply.

Nokia doesn't understand yet that their production and licensing is draining their investments and at the same time Giants who specialize in the field of gaming are looking at similar and alternative investments in the field of Mobile gaming....including microsoft. (keep that on the hush hush)

Re:Too little, far too late

[spoco2]

"including microsoft. (keep that on the hush hush)" OK... just between you and me... I won't say a word.

Re:Too little, far too late

[thesaur]

I disagree. Nokia is well known in Europe for their innovations, and they've been targeting young consumers (i.e., pre-teens and teenagers). This revision of the N-Gage may just be the ticket to getting young people to buy it.

It's amazing how often young people I know get new phones. All it takes is for one kid in the school to get it and think it's cool. Then the hundreds of others will "need" it. That's the way cell phone marketing works over here, and I think it's very compatible with the N-Gage.

Though you might think otherwise, the main thing young people use the phones for is games and sending SMS's. Calling each other is too expensive. And Nokia is well aware of that fact.

Another thing is the price factor. If, as has been stated, it retails for $199 without a service contract, it will be available in Europe probably for 1 EUR with a 24-month contract. That's a decent price, and very afordable for the young. I know many who regularly pay 100 EUR to buy phones on ebay. The phones are usually worth about 300 EUR.

If Nokia is smart (and I think they are), they'll have easy access to this huge market. If not with this revision, with the next.

Re:Too little, far too late

[DarkZero]

Just a brief question, since we don't often hear much about the European gaming market:

Is the N-Gage suffering the same sort of bad press in Europe that it's suffering in the United States? Here in the US, it's been the butt of gaming magazine and website jokes for months, to the point where just mentioning it to any gamer would probably elicit laughter. It's really to the point where the only way they could possibly be less popular is if they sent out a press release announcing that "9 Out of 10 Convicted Child Molesters Agree: The N-Gage Kicks Ass". I'd say that they have a much bigger PR problem to tackle than the Virtual Boy or the 32X ever had.

Re:Too little, far too late

[Ziwcam]

I must admit, I'm partially responsible for their demand miscalculation... I filled out a couple thousand surveys that said I would buy said product if it were offered, but in reality I thought it was just a stupid idea in the first place.

Re:Too little, far too late

[thesaur]

To be honest, I've not been actively reading gaming mags, so I can't say exactly how poorly gamers view the N-Gage.

However, one German IT site reviewed it in November and gave it a failing grade because it wasn't good at either gaming or a cell phone.

They also report that a German discount chain sold the N-Gage starting April 1 for 159 EUR, without contract binding. It sounds like Nokia is trying to clear out their stock to make way for the new, cheaper version that has fixed a number of flaws that the previous version had: sidetalking, 4k colors, etc.

I don't think that it's much of a liability that there's no MP3 player included: the comments on the original article pointed out that there is one available.

Now, on a more offbeat note, if it indeed were the case that N-Gages were popular among child molesters, it would mean that N-Gages are popular among young people. It would not necessarily mean that such creeps like it for themselves. At any rate, I doubt a headline like that would ever make it to press, because there would be enough positive headlines to fend off a stupid attack like that. Come to think of it, I suppose 9 out of 10 child molesters agree that computers are an absolute necessity. And the internet, too. But that doesn't make either computers or the internet unpopular. But we do know how often people like that get caught by undercover police officers.

All in all, I think that Nokia is doing the right thing with this revision and that they have a chance to make right what they messed up last time.

Re:Too little, far too late

[Jace of Fuse!]

I'd say that they have a much bigger PR problem to tackle than the Virtual Boy or the 32X ever had.

I'd say the Virtual Boy and 32x may even have a better chance of success than the N-Gage. :)

I speak not only as someone who buys just about anything game related, but also as someone who has many like-minded friends. The major issue that gamers have with the N-Gage isn't the shape, and it isn't the location of the memory card, though both of those issues ARE major turn offs, they ALMOST might could have been overlooked if it weren't for a few other serious factors.

The first buzzkill was the screen. Tall and Skinny Works for early 80's upright cabinets and that's it. It doesn't work for handhelds, and there's almost nothing you can do to make it work.

In a day and age were video is making a push for "WIDE SCREEN", doing the total opposite is the kiss of death. Human vision is wider than it is tall, and we've become spoiled by a wide field of vision. For that reason, the screen layout of the N-Gage pretty much prohibits it from having games most people are going to stand playing for very long.

Next, the button layout is crap. It had all those buttons (in the form of a number pad) and they wasted the chance to do something really innovative by trying to turn the interface into a stylish phone. Only it's not a stylish phone, so they failed that too.

If the N-Gage actually has a future, it won't be in it's current, or even it's newly announced form. It'll require a MAJOR overhaul.

Re:Too little, far too late

[Eviljay]

Am i the only one who really likes the n-gage. The display is crisp and clean, the graphics are great.

As it has it's own operating system you can install new programs. It has an mp3 player, a radio, real one to watch movies and can play games, far more than any other handheld console. And it's a phone to boot, a perfect reason to carry it around with you at all times.

Fair enough, the games at the moment are pretty uninspiring but there's some great stuff on the horizon including quite a few n-gage only games.

I'm just a little annoyed that i got my phone at the weekend and they announce a revamp literally 3 days after!

As a console it's a lot better than the gameboy, it's comfy to hold and it's really isn't that large slipping into my pocket quite easily where i can hardly feel it.

Nokia really have thrown everything they've got at the n-gage it's got more bells and whistles than you can shake a stick at. I don't think it deserves to be slated as much as it has been.

Remember, everyone slated the Xbox when it came out for it's immense lack of games but now it's got a pretty strong foothold due to the slow trickle of games being constantly added to the range.

Re:Too little, far too late

[geminidomino]

There was almost no interest in the N-Gage due to inflated prices...

What cell phone prices AREN'T artificially inflated? Many providers have a cheap-o phone that they offer as a freebie and then make up for it by gouging on any other phone. I can understand a palm/phone (Kyocera 7135, e.g.) being pricy, but $650? I know for damn sure that the Motorola V60i I used to have (before telling Verizon to go piss up a rope) sure doesn't seem to have $179 worth of 2-year-old technology in it.

Alltel's freebie was the Motorola 120, same software as the V60i but a non-flip. All that matters is that the port on the bottom still supports my CF modem cable, so I can still use my zaurus with it. Made that decision rather easy

Re:Too little, far too late

[Quelain]

There's a classic n-Gage 'review' at somethingawful, I don't think I'll ever forget this phrase:

"Nokia has spent millions despite the fact that every sensible indication is that the N-Gage is the biggest piece of shit since a meteor made of shit crashed into the planet Crapulon's capital city of Shitopolis."

Re:Too little, far too late

[Anonymous Coward]

Certainly not enough to overcome the might and innovation of PSP.

Is there anything on N-Gage 2 (nee QD) that couldn't have been technically and commercially implemented on the original N-Gage, released around 9 months ago? Nope.

Did Nokia listen to the critics who pointed out the faults inherent to the original (pre-release) N-Gage. Non, non, non!

Is N-Gage 2 "revolutionary" or "innovative" in any way? Nein, danke. No aspects to the interface are compelling in any way - there are no shoulder buttons, analogue input (as per PS2, perhaps?), wide aspect screen (try tunnel vision for side-scrolling platformers), or anything remotely beyond the expected. For example, in the era of transparently mobile digital media why are we constrained to carrying numerous and valuable MMC cards around just to play games? This is analogous to the old days of tapes and Wlakmans. Why could Nokia not implement a satisfactory online distribution channel? They do have the expertise, but sadly not the capacity for original thought...

Beyond the removal of added-value features such as the radio and media support, numerous design faults are still inherent - e.g. there is no satisfactory Hold switch or function, therefore the user is required to traverse up and down through interface trees for even the simplest action (i.e. removing and replacing the phone from a pocket), etc etc

In my view Nokia are 9 months behind where they could have been, and are distancing themselves (in the wrong direction) even further from the competition.

Re:Too little, far too late

[BasilBrush]

Tall and Skinny Works for early 80's upright cabinets and that's it.

And the games most played on mobile phones? 80's style arcade games. When you are waiting for a bus, or idling away a few minutes of break time, you don't want anything more involving.

Here's a few game types that work better with vertical aspect ratio: vertical scrolling shoot-em-ups, tetris, breakout, bust-a-move, golf, card games, pool, pinball, platform games, any game based on gravity (bomb-jack, lunar lander, gravitar).

Your comment about peoples wide FOV is true, but only applicable to FPS and other 3D games. But those sorts of games are not what the mobile phone user typically wants to play. They are too immersive and time demanding. If you want to work your way though Quake X, you'll probably do it on your console or PC.

Re:Too little, far too late

[BasilBrush]

What cell phone prices AREN'T artificially inflated?

Ones sold in Europe. You get virtually all phones free or massively subsidised with a contract.

Re:Too little, far too late

[KjetilK]

Nokia is well known in Europe for their innovations,

They were. Five years ago. Now, like any corporation that grows too big and powerful, they are just corrupt and decadent.

Re:Too little, far too late

[Anonymous Coward]

I am actually considering picking one up, despite the coming update.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't even use it as a phone. I just want a new portable game machine. I never played Tomb Raider or the original Tony Hawk and they look like fun. Even at $200, with three games that's not bad. Additionally, I've been wanting to get a new mp3 player anyways. Might as well kill two birds with one stone, right?

Anyways, how much did you pay for yours and would you still recommend it?

Re:Too little, far too late

[Jace of Fuse!]

Your comment about peoples wide FOV is true, but only applicable to FPS and other 3D games. But those sorts of games are not what the mobile phone user typically wants to play.

I would agree with that entirely if the Gameboy Advance didn't totally poke a hole right through the argument.

Re:Too little, far too late

[Lumpy]

Nokia had a horrid design from the beginning and I guarentee that the new one sucks just as bad. They need to put 4X the processor in there at MINIMUM. Crips the GameBoy SP looks like a cray supercomputer compared to the NGage. They need to more than double the memory.. and the LCD just plain sucks.

In fact it is easier for me to carry a SP + a couple of cart's and my regular nextel cellphone than it was to carry and use the Ngage.

They can redesign all they want... I know that it will continue to suck in useability, in game selection and in quality.

Yes the ngage i have has 3 broken buttons and a cracked case... one drop to a tile floor, the same drop that my nextel takes almost weekly and that the SP has taken 3 times all with no damage.

Re:Too little, far too late

[gl4ss]

production and licensing on nokia are draining their investments?

How can that be when practically anybody can make games for series 60 and sell them on for example handango? however, this could be a reason why some companies don't like the platform, it's too open for anybody to enter the market. with gameboy the companies have privilidge of being the exclusive provider to even the most simplest shit(as it takes money to launch even the smallest title).

how can you justify the price of 20-30$ for a game some highschool kid can make just as well and sell for 1.99$ on the net?

good luck selling tetris for 30 bucks on n-gage! however it's easy to sell it for that price for gameboys when there is no competition that can sell simple stuff like that for 3.99 or better yet, provide it for free.

already true for several games for n-gage. the best I've tried so far is Sky Force a splendid shoot'em'up that's selling just for 10 bucks online(and it installs on an mmc you have, like the other games you can buy online, so no mmc swapping), demo version available as well.
besides, if you don't target JUST the n-gage you get a much bigger potential audience(from other series60 phones).

while at it, please buy my game.(It's your basic arkanoid/breakthrough clone. compatible with all s60 devices installs either on phone memory or mmc) or download my freeware game from the sig. contrary to the rumours it's not a really _that_ hard platform to work on either.

Re:Too little, far too late

[thesaur]

Sorry, Gameboy Advance targets a different user group than N-Gage. Admittedly, N-Gage users will undoubtedly be interested in Gameboy, but today's mobile young people want to take their games around with them, and are unlikely to want to carry too many gadgets. Why do you think cell phone gaming is so hugely popular among young people in Europe? And the kind of games that are popular are not big FPS, they are specifically designed for low resolution: tetris, packman, etc. Of course, there are also jump-and-run games like the elkware adaptation of Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell. But once again, those do not require widescreen graphics. And they take at most a few minutes at a time, though to play them through can take hours. They are designed for people who don't have much time, but want to have some fun anyway.

Re:Too little, far too late

[BasilBrush]

I would agree with that entirely if the Gameboy Advance didn't totally poke a hole right through the argument.

GBA isn't a mobile phone, so how does that poke a hole through the argument?

GBA is widescreen to capitalise on a back catalog of games for older full size consoles, which are easily ported so long as the aspect ratio is similar. And those older console games had their aspect ratio decided by the shape of the TV. It doesn't mean that that aspect ratio is the perfect shape for those games. Indeed many of the GBA games are the kind of "80s style" 2D arcade games that the OP referred to.

Re:Too little, far too late

[geminidomino]

We get the contract discounts over here, too. Unfortunately, that seems to have replaced actual technical support.

"Verizon Wireless, how can I help you."
"Hi, I'm having a problem."
"Well, you're eligble for a phone upgrade"
"I don't want a phone upgrade."
"With a new 2-year contract you can save $150 dollars"
"I don't want to sign another contract. I want you to tell me why the phone doesn't work in my bedroom where it has for the past year."
"Without a contract, that model will be 200 dollars. You should really sign the contract."
"Go pound sand.<click!>"

"Alltel sales..."

Re:Too little, far too late

[Jace of Fuse!]

GBA isn't a mobile phone, so how does that poke a hole through the argument?

Simple.

The GBA is successful as a game console. The N-Gage is not.

I admit the GBA can't exactly be compared to a cell phone since it isn't one, but seeing as how the N-Gage isn't considered a very good phone either, that makes it an all around loser.

The GBA does what it's supposed to do really well. The N-Gage doesn't do either of it's tasks very well at all.

Re:Too little, far too late

[BasilBrush]

The GBA is successful as a game console. The N-Gage is not.

Absolutely. But that doesn't mean that the aspect ratio is the descriminating factor.

The GBA does what it's supposed to do really well. The N-Gage doesn't do either of it's tasks very well at all.

Well, I have an original GBA, and I can tell you that has a worse design flaw. The screen isn't backlit, and many games are just impossible to see properly. Nintendo have sorted that problem out with it's second design iteration. It's too early to say whether or not Nokia have sorted their problems out with their second iteration. They've certainly addressed them. Let's wait for the reviews eh?

Re:Too little, far too late

[Lemmy Caution]

Nokia has been big and powerful for far longer than 5 years. You think they made their first cell phones in a garage in Helsinki or something?

Nokia is about 140 years old, has been Finland's largest corporation for decades, and started off by making paper. They are probably no more corrupt and decadant now than they were 5 or 10 years ago - they just made a crappy phone, that's all.

Re:Too little, far too late

[Ayaress]

They could go for another year or two and finally perfect the technology but Nintendo is known for success late in the game, and doing it cheaply.

Yeah, but when you're competing with Nokia, you don't have to worry about price very much. If you keep it under the $500 mark, you're pretty much going to win, even if you're just selling real tacos.

Re:Too little, far too late

[Ralph Wiggam]

I've never seen an N-gage outside of a store, but I've seen thier TV ads. They advertise that using the mobile phone, you can download other people's best race times and race against thier shadow. I can think of few things LESS fun than racing against an preset shadow. If there's a phone in my handheld gaming system, I want to call a friend 500 miles away and play bubble bobble or something head to head.

-B

Re:Too little, far too late

[Ayaress]

More ranting about the screen: In the majority of games, the interesting stuff takes place along the horizontal. In FPS, you're both generally standing on a floor/ground of some sort. In sidescrollers (like Sonic, which is one of the N-Gage's core games), you don't usually worry much about what's above you. It's what's in front of you you need to see. This is even worse in Sonic, where you regularly get up to such speeds that the narrow screen gives you roughly one frame to dodge an oncomming enemy. A TV screen gives you roughly two to three times the reaction time. Another of their major games is Tomb Raider. We all know how crappy the camera angles are in this game. It's bad enough on a wide screen when you can't see what you're shooting at (and being shot by). The narrow screen conspires with the shitty camera angles to make sure you die more efficiently. Then there's the sports games. You'd think that, knowing the screen setup, FIFA Soccer would have had the field running virtically, so you could see some distance downfield. But no, they have it running side to side, so you're seeing maybe 5 yards worth of green while you're kicking at a goal five screens away. Frankly, I think a more or less square field of view is best for sports games and (more importantly, since I don't like sports games) strategy games, as well as other top-down games, since it gives a balanced view on all sides. About the only thing the tall skinny screen is superior for is for the virtically scrolling shooters and games like Tetris (if you strip out the console that takes up half the screen in the Gameboy version) - and I'm not spending $400 to play Tetris when I can already do that on my GBA, which cost me $50.

Re:Too little, far too late

[Afrosheen]

I've yet to see a decent 3d game on the gameboy SP. I've played my way through excellent 2d games such as Metroid and Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow, as well as tactical games like Ogre Battle and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. I played both of the Golden Sun games all the way through. If only the Metal Slug series would get released on GB SP. Now, why anyone would want or ask for 3d on this thing, I have no idea. 2d is not dead, nor will it ever be with handhelds. I don't think 3d is the future for these little devices.

Then again, I'm an old timer that grew up playing 70's and 80's video games in the arcade, then Atari 2600, then Commodore 64, then Nintendo..so my opinion might be skewed.

Re:Too little, far too late

[Afrosheen]

Reminds me of the old saying:

"Jack of all trades, master of none."

Admittedly though, the N-Gage 1.0 was just plain craptacular on all fronts. The newer one looks improved, but they'd be smart to buy the rights to the Atari Lynx, shrink it, add some cellphone features and take the whole games collection back to market. Epyx made some kickass games for the Lynx. Oh and it also does fake 3d for those of you that can't live without it. Hardware scaling, rotation, transparency..what a lovely little handheld it was.

Re:Too little, far too late

[GTRacer]

One big difference - Nintendo managed to sell MILLIONS of inferior non-lit GBA's, right up until the SP hit. And then they're selling MILLIONS of those.

I ask EB and Gamestop managers how many N-Gages have moved recently, and it's usually a two-digit number, even with the two rounds of discounts and bundling.

These aren't hard numbers, but if I had access to NPD, I bet I could find corroboration...

GTRacer
- If the N-Gage is a taco, does that make the QD a quesadilla? Too Cheesy?

Re:Too little, far too late

[BasilBrush]

Who said that GBA hadn't outsold N-Gage by an order of magnitude? Everyone is aware of that. To take us back to the point in question, what has that to do with whether the vertical or horizontal aspect ratio is better? THAT isn't the differentiating factor.

Re:Too little, far too late

[drinkypoo]

One day, researchers will unearth slashdot's servers from the rubble after Judgement day, sometime not long after Skynet's support contract runs out...

"How would you characterize this post, Zigthorp?"
"While it appears to be more or less informative, as confirmed by the internet archive, paragraph five shows a complete lack of humor in this individual, possibly a sign of significant neurological damage..."

Re:Too little, far too late

[BasilBrush]

Yeh, yeah, I know, I meant to say "orders of magnitude".

Re:Too little, far too late

[Cpt_Kirks]

I prefer to carry my Zodiac. Nice, tough aluminum alloy case simply wont't crack.

Hopefully, the GBA emulator will be released this weekend. In the meantime, we have GB/GBC, NES, SNES, Atari ST, TG-16, C64, Colecovision, Xcade and GameGear/SMS emulators to keep us busy.

Oh, and video, mp3, web/email via bluetooth and Palm OS stuff also. And of course, games written for the Zodiac that take advantage of the custom video/audio chips.

I prefer my phone (with bluetooth) as a seperate device too.

Re:Too little, far too late

[C.Batt]

And the games most played on mobile phones? 80's style arcade games. When you are waiting for a bus, or idling away a few minutes of break time, you don't want anything more involving.

And the games marketed as the draw to n-gage? Tomb Raider, FIFA Soccer, Rayman, etc.... Typical console titles.

So Nokia designs the n-gage. They equip it to play cel-phone (series 60, iirc) games. Then they market it as a mobile platform for playing typical console games.

If they want to commit to regular console games, re-orient the screen. If they don't then stop marketing it as a device targetted at the GBA (and therefore, typical console games) because it's a laughable comparison at the moment.

Otherwise I agree with your statements. Cel-phone gamers aren't looking for a full blown console gaming experience. They're looking for a time waster that doesn't require a lengthy time commitment. Get in to it, play for 10 minutes, go for the high score, then get on with life.

Re:Too little, far too late

[DarkZero]

And the games most played on mobile phones? 80's style arcade games. When you are waiting for a bus, or idling away a few minutes of break time, you don't want anything more involving.

---

Your comment about peoples wide FOV is true, but only applicable to FPS and other 3D games. But those sorts of games are not what the mobile phone user typically wants to play. They are too immersive and time demanding. If you want to work your way though Quake X, you'll probably do it on your console or PC.

If Nokia had been smart enough to launch the N-Gage with beefed-up versions of these sorts of games, then your argument would hold water. But instead, the initial N-Gage lineup contained at least: 2 3D games (Tony Hawk and Tomb Raider), 2 sidescrollers (Sonic and Pandemonium), 1 FPS (Red Faction), and only ONE puzzle game (Puyo Pop, which was poorly ported; the indistinct colors ruined the gameplay). Your argument makes even less sense when you take into account the fact that the current N-Gage Lineup contains a new Splinter Cell sidescroller and a Rayman sidescroller, but only three puzzle/arcade games, which are Puyo Pop (still crap, I'd imagine), Puzzle Bobble, and Super Monkey Ball. And Super Monkey Ball's presence on that short list depends on how the N-Gage version actually plays.

If Nokia had followed your very logical strategy, they might have done a lot better. Instead, they decided to go for console-style games on a decidedly old-fashioned and inappropriate vertical screen, which won them a a thumbs-down across the board from magazines like Electronic Gaming Monthly.

Re:Too little, far too late

[Eviljay]

I got mine free when i took out a new contract with T-Mobile. But of course i'm paying 23 pounds a month. If you want to buy one outright you'd be best looking on e-bay for a second hand one.

As far as i know you still need a sim-card in it for it to be operable. Even if you have no contract or outgoing signal there needs to be a sim-card in there. I don't know what the deal is in America but here in England we can buy pay-as-you-go phones, basically you buy the phone outright and then buy 'call vouchers' as and when you need them. If you don't want to buy a single voucher then that's entirely up to you, there's no bills.

Hope that helps

Re:Too little, far too late

[josh glaser]

1. Super Monkey Ball Jr.
2. Sonic Battle
3. Top Gear Rally

All of those games are full 3d, and all of them are good (especially SMBJ).

Why would anyone want 3d on a handheld? You might as well ask why anyone would every want 3d on a console or PC.

You have good taste in games ;-) but I disagree on the future of handheld games.

Finally!

[illumen]

This should go quite well.

As now there a few decent games for it(and some experienced developers), it's cheapish, and actually usable.

I just hope it is compatible with the old games.

Have fun!
http://www.holepit.com/

Re:Finally!

[jayzee]

I just hope it is compatible with the old games.

According to a followup to the original 'leaked images' post"All games will be compatible with both versions of the N-Gage, however"

They also say no MP3 player or radio in the new version.

Re:Finally!

[Moofie]

No MP3 player?

Wow. I'd have thought they'd have run out of bullets from shooting themselves in the foot with the first gen product. I stand corrected.

Good Ideas 101

[PretzelBat]

The NGage has "been redesigned for more comfortable use as a cell phone."

Wait!--they are going to make their cell phone/game system a functional phone? What a great idea.

Oh--they're also going to make it usable as a gaming device? You don't even have to take out the battery to change games anymore?

This thing is going to be awesome.

I bet someone in R&D is getting a big bonus for these ideas.

Re:Good Ideas 101

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet someone in R&D is getting a big bonus for these ideas.

Stop blowing your own trumpet.

Re:Good Ideas 101

[Anonymous Coward]

I know the guys in R&D and I'm pretty sure that they didn't get a raise, but they definitely deserve one. LOL!!!

Dudes! They can't take away my sidetalkin'!

[teamhasnoi]

I mean, I'm like totally sidetalkin', and this bums me out.

No talking taco

[Anonymous Coward]

means I'll at least consider it.

You have got to wonder...

[m1chael]

how the first one managed to see daylight. Don't they test it with humans before release? Anyhoo, at the moment I don't see the next Gameboy or PSP so maybe this might work. I bet those people who got the first one are hoping for some kind of rebate ;P Are there people who bought it?

Re:You have got to wonder...

[Kris_J]

The parent is not insightful. The original N-Gage is a very nice peice of kit. For example: I notice nobody ever complained about how thick it is. Few, if any, people complained that the controls were worse for gaming than any other phone one the market.

Given that the new one is losing Tri-band (a must for international travellers) and the FM radio (also handy for travellers and others), I'm particularly content with mine. Meanwhile, if the updated model provokes a few more games releases, well that's great to.

Re:You have got to wonder...

[m1chael]

You do bring up some valid points, like the thickness is alot and the controls are average. But it's nice to see some good points about them.

N-Gage: It's really good at radio.

Re:Looks fine to me.

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I missing something?

Well, the games still suck

Convergent products

[theRG]

I was in Hong Kong for business recently and noticed that everyone (well about 75% of the population) was wearing earphones attached to either cellphones, flash-based MP3 players, or cellphones playing MP3s. I think there really is a huge market for combining things that people want into small packages. Just look at how ubiquitous camera phones are becoming. Hopefully the new N-Gage will be more successful.

Re:Convergent products

[Brandybuck]

I think there really is a huge market for combining things that people want into small packages.

No, that's just Hong Kong. Every once in a while you discover a place that is so immersed in consumer materialism that it makes even Madison Avenue blush. Hong Kong is one of those places.

Re:Convergent products

[Daneurysm]

I hate to disagree with you...as what you said just seems to make sense. People want product A, and people want product B...so why not put them both together and get product C? That's sure to win over both camps, right?

Do you remember the 'all in one fax, scanner, printer, copier, modem' units that were all the rage a couple years ago?

Do you remember which of those functions it was really good at?

Probably not. 'Cuz they sucked at all of them.

Convergence devices have always promised to be a panacea. However, in reality it comes down to this:

These devices are the jack of all trades, but master of none.

Re:Convergent products

[Threni]

> These devices are the jack of all trades, but master of none.

For most people, good enough beats best, as best is more expensive. My phone plays games (though not as good as pc or console games) and takes pictures (though not as good as a dedicated digital camera). But I have pictures now that i'd not have had without it, and some of the games available for my phone are pretty good.

My company has a fax/photocopier/scanner which is pretty useful. I'm not sure when I last saw a dedicated fax machine, or a photocopier which couldn't fax.

Re:Convergent products

[Daneurysm]

I'm certainly not saying that quality examples of 'all-in-one' units don't exist. They definately do.

The problem appears to be (to me) that aside from 'good enough' features not being 'good enough' in this circumstance, Nokia is entering two already very established markets. The mobile phone market is undoubtedly saturated. The portable videogame market has consisted of Nintendo for over 15 years now. There is going to be a new--and very formidable--opponent entering the race soon...Sony, with the PSP. Does Nokia really think they have a chance? I would have said they did if they didn't botch the screen, game placement, design, asthetics and screen (it's worth mentioning twice it's so bad) categories.

This brings to a possible 'third market' that is tied into this between the other two--The Portable Network Gaming.

This is where I thought they owned the court...but only 3 of their titles (rudimentarily, I'd wager) support this feature.

out of all the bungles Nokia has definately made in the N-gage debacle, I'd have to say that not hyping up and delivering an impressive 'portable-network-game-system' was where the officially dropped the ball for good.

Just my (not so humble) $0.02

Re:Convergent products

[Krandor3]

What the N-Guage needed was real online gaming that was not terribly expensive and where you could play head-to-head with people around the country. This downloading a best time to play against a "shadow" doesn't cut it. Head-to-head online mobile gaming is what could have made the N-Guage work, but they dropped the ball.

It's too little, too late.

[Delphix]

The N-gage was doomed from the beginning. If the system was really that well received, then a minor overhaul might fix it. But smoothing design flaws like having to remove the battery to change the game doesn't fix the core problem.

The Gameboy. Perhaps problem is the wrong word. The Gameboy is awesome at what it does. It's a handheld video game console. It's not a bastardized cell phone pretending to be something it's not. It does one thing and it does it very very well. It's hard to unseat a product like that.

The downfall of hybridizing products like this is two fold. You're targeting two different customers. One's who want a badass cellphone and will occasionally buy games. They're not hardcore gamers, they're just looking for diversion from time to time. You're not going to sell massive amounts of carts to them. Then you have the other type of customer: the ones who don't need a cell phone, don't want to change their current cell phone, or can't get a cellphone. Children fall into that latter category. People/Parents aren't going to buy the thing just to play games on and ignore it's functionality as a cellphone.

There are two ways Nokia could have pulled it off. They could have either hooked up with Nintendo and sold a phone that also played Gameboy Advance games. Thus they'd have a huge library of games, and both audiences are tailored two. Or if they really wanted to compete, they should have created a standalone console that wasn't tied to the cell phone.

I'm a good example. I've got a Gameboy Advance and it's great. I've also got a Motorola v120 that I love. I'm not going to trade up my favorite cellphone just for another portable. Now, if it played GBA, I'd be tempted. I don't often carry my GBA with me, except on travel, but I always have my cell phone. If it played GBA games they might stand a chance of convincing me. Or if they had badass games, they could probably convince me to buy a stand alone unit. But as it stands, their hybridization model just isn't appealing. And they don't really have any titles that are must haves... That's just not a formula for success.

Sony may have something though with the PSP though. If they or Nintendo tried to do a hybrid with a cell phone, they'd probably do alright.

Re:It's too little, too late.

[NamShubCMX]

I tried a few game with this new N-Gage. This new model is really cool, seriously.

It *still* lacks shoulder button, but it fits so nicely in the hand, way better than GBA or GBA SP. Of course, it still lacks decent games...

Also, it's smaller than the Nokia 6600, so for a phone it's a good size, compared to the first model.

In any case I hope to see competition in the handheld gaming market! :)

Re:It's too little, too late.

[robbyjo]

The downfall of hybridizing products like this is two fold....

For me, it's pretty clear that they're targetting teens, where cell-phones are in vogue and they're playing games too. The major flaw IMHO is the price (which is way out of range from common teenager's pocket) and the design. Games are pretty much priced right (IIRC $30, about the same price as GBA games). If they want to be a bit more aggressive, they can price it a bit lower, like $25 or even less. Now in this news they said they've fixed it. Price sounds about right, I dunno about the design. The only thing left is to drag major game producers in, which is pretty hard due to the first failure.

Just my 2c

Re:It's too little, too late.

[S3D]

There are two ways Nokia could have pulled it off. They could have either hooked up with Nintendo and sold a phone that also played Gameboy Advance games. Thus they'd have a huge library of games, and both audiences are tailored two. Or if they really wanted to compete, they should have created a standalone console that wasn't tied to the cell phone.
Both not viable alternatives. Nokia pushing Symbian OS. Switch to another OS or make an emulator with limited CPU/memory for niche product is not practical. Standalone console is not what Nokia targeting. Nokia target middle segment between hardcore and casual, people who want have handheld gaming device, but don't want carry another box.Another point is communication. The idea was online gaming through GPRS/WAP. Those games never materialize, but that is another problem (prices still too high). Overall impression of this new NGage - it's more like patched original device , not new. It should be exchanged for old for free (or with huge rebate), or original owners would feel cheated. Trouly new device should have twice bigger screen, twice faster CPU (at least 200 mHz, for now this "gaming" device have 104 mHz vs 150+ mHz of SonyEricsson P800) and, most important - Symbian 8.x OS with hardware OpenGL ES. If NGage 2 will not reach those parameters it will be another falure.

Re:It's too little, too late.

[matticus]

Well, if it's anything like the first ngage, it will be selling for 1 euro + contract within one month of release. Oh wait-you mean that was flop pricing, not special promo pricing?

Re:It's too little, too late.

[lemody]

you could be tempted by the fact that you can run c64 and gb and nes with emulator on it :) and i am quite sure there are more emulators on the way...

Re:It's too little, too late.

[Danse]

It should be exchanged for old for free (or with huge rebate), or original owners would feel cheated.

Original owners are morons for buying it in the first place. They either have way too much expendable income and didn't bother to do their homework before making a purchase of this size, or they are just retarded enough to buy something with so many glaring problems. I think they deserve their fate.

Re:It's too little, too late.

[Jussi K. Kojootti]

Then you have the other type of customer: the ones who don't need a cell phone, don't want to change their current cell phone, or can't get a cellphone. Children fall into that latter category. People/Parents aren't going to buy the thing just to play games on and ignore it's functionality as a cellphone.

Boy, do we live on different planets... My (mostly european) experience says kids absolutely 'need' a cell phone, change to a new one often and would kill for a cooler devices/phones. I'm not saying this Ngage2 is that kind of device though.

Re:It's too little, too late.

[Tony Hoyle]

Mostly though they're not on contract (unless they have very rich parents) but pay as you go phones - most children I've seen have older generation phones for this reason... the cost of startup is more than their parents will pay for the 'new' phones. It'll be a while before the Ngage2 is in that bracket - it has to survive 6 months at least before people start selling it cheap off contract, and judging by the reception of the last one (it silently died, basically. I think they sold, umm... two. And one of them was returned.) it won't last that long.

Re:It's too little, too late.

[BasilBrush]

All phones are free or massively subsidised witha contract in Europe.

Re:It's too little, too late.

[MemoryDragon]

Nokia failed due to poor design with the first one. The idea itself is excellent. Most people carry around a cellphone, and most cellphones have games, but due to the lousy controls they usually are unplayable. But believe me cellphone gaming is a huge market over here in Europe and I think in Asia as well. The problem is not that the device is a hybrid, most people hate to carry around 2-3 devices because the manufacturers dont want to take the risk of trying new markets. The problem was the lousy execution on nokias part. The NGage failed for several reasons one is the bad design, the other one that Nokia is not known as a console producer. But dont dismiss the idea, the future lies in combined PDA-Gamemachine-Cellphone Combinations, there is no other way.

Mod Parent Down

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a repost

here are offical ......

[entropy1980]

pictures and full press release... http://www.mobileslash.com/content/hardware/nokia- announces-ngage-gd.shtml

Re:here are offical ......

[entropy1980]

woops clickable link here

Re:here are offical ......

[kaitsu]

More pictures and information at http://www.n-gage.com/qd

Hmm.

[JanusFury]

The redesign is an attempt to address design criticisms

So they taped a gameboy advance to the front? Well, it sounds a little bulky, but it'll probably do the job.

It's all about the applications support

[StandardCell]

Seriously, what marketing genius decided to launch the original N*Gage with Tomb Raider and seven other mostly older games? Tomb Raider is almost 8 years old now. This is really an irrelevant piece of hardware unless it's up to the task of real 3D gaming with real apps that people want to play on the go - something that has not escaped Nintendo's Game Boy line.

Re:It's all about the applications support

[Anonymous Coward]

and how they seem to think someone would buy the games at full price. that is Full Price as in 50EUR. the original Tomb Raider wasnt that much. :(

and from what i heard the system is bad to code for. the obscu^H^H^H^H^Hsecurity that has to come with mobile phones is said to take quite a toll on performance and ease of implementation.

Re:It's all about the applications support

[kaitsu]

Old 8-bit Nintendo games seem to be doing rather well on GBA and they are _really_ old...

Re:It's all about the applications support

[sashako]

NGage is system60, so it supports emulation for ZX Spectrum, NES, C64 games. Anyone knows if there is Sierra scripts interpreter available? I am playing my favourites titles from 80s on my 3650 phone that lacks good joystick like one in NGage.

MP3/FM Support?

[zackeller]

So they take out two of the few things that made it worth buying. Wouldn't it just be a matter of some easily-coded software to give it mp3 support? The proc is certainly fast enough to run it software.

Re:MP3/FM Support?

[Kris_J]

For MP3, just download the Helix player for the S60.

Re:MP3/FM Support?

[ColourlessGreenIdeas]

I think the sound output is mono. It's mono in all games on the old one, and while the headset has 2 headphones, it has the same kind of plug as a standard Nokia handsfree. (The old one had 2 plugs; a handsfree jack and a headphone jack)

Poor product presentation

[Borg453b]

My brother and I saw the thing at Saturn (huge electronic store in hamburg), and it wouldnt let us load any of the games.. think it gave us some kind of out of memory msg. We both laughed at it and left

Price

[Shakey_Jake33]

For me, the problem once again comes down to pricepoint. I am well aware that the price is relatively cheap as far as mobile phones go. However, I neither want, nor need, a mobile phone. I would be buying this product strictly as a games console, and from that perspective, the $199 price point suddenly seems unreasonable considering the probably short future of the product. If I'm going to spend such a substancial amount on a handheld, I'd save my money for a PSP, which promises a larger lime-up of games, from more developers, on a product line which is more likely to actually have a future. Or get the cheaper, but trusty GBA. Which is a shame because there are some games that truely interest me on the NGage... I loved the original Pandemonium! to bits, and a handheld Tomb Raider sounds pretty cool also. Ultimately unless you intend to use this as a phone also, it's just not worth the asking price, and that's a pretty sizable chunk of the market Nokia are blocking out (I mean, even if a person does use a cell phone, will they want to be limited to this one?).

Re:Price

[Anonymous Coward]

Repeat after me:

"I am not the target market"
"I am not the target market"

Re:Price

[Shakey_Jake33]

So who is? I would say the video games portion of the said unit it designed to appeal to people who, believe it or not, actually play video games. While I am full aware that they are trying to aim towards the more phone-orientated mainstream user, their current situation just goes to show that by not appealing to the gamer, a device where half of it's selling point is going to go no-where. Phone users who don't play games are just going to get a superior phone. My personal opinion is that if they are so keen to push the gaming side of this device, they'd win over far more people by actually signing up some games (like the canned Sega Rally for one), than re-releasing the exiting model. Just my opinion on that one.

Re:Price

[BasilBrush]

If you neither want nor need a mobile phone, then the ngage isn't the right device for you. However most people do want/need a mobile phone. Certainly in Europe, less so in the US.

Nokia should switch to making laptops...

[MisterLawyer]

Then you would have to remove the battery to put in a different CD.

Too little too late?

[BinaryC]

This would have been a great product if it was released first, but I have to wonder if anyone will care now -- You only get one chance to make a first impression.

N-Gage QD - Nokia's Answer To The Critics?

[Anonymous Coward]

Posted by simoniker on Wednesday April 14, @01:23AM
from the straight-talking dept.
JayBonci writes "According to CNET News, Nokia is preparing the N-Gage QD for release at the end of June. The redesign is an attempt to address design criticisms; such as 'side-talking' and the need to take out the battery to replace the game. Will this signal new life for the console, or is it too little, too late?" We linked to leaked pictures of the N-Gage follow-up late last week on Slashdot Games, and there's further information at GameSpot, which mentions: "When bundled with a service contract, the QD is expected to sell for $99. Without subsidy from a service provider, the phone will go for $199 (with the platform's Tony Hawk title bundled in at that price)."

huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nokia is preparing the N-Gage QD for release at the end of June.

Can you repeat that, but in English?

Nokia and Software Patents

[Serious Simon]

They push for software patents in Europe. Software patents are a threat to innovation.

I for one will not buy any more Nokia products.

Re:Nokia and Software Patents

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this modded offtopic ??? Aren't we talking about the same Nokia ?

Sometimes I just wonder who's moderating here...

Re:Nokia and Software Patents

[Anonymous Coward]

the mods are on crack, but so is nokia. they implemented a soso video system and patented everything they got out of it. have fun to implement live video on mobiles then i guess... :

A method for performing motion estimation in video encoding, a video encoding system and a video encoding device

METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR TRANSFERRING VIDEO FRAME IN TELECOMMUNICATION SYSTEM

METHOD APPARATUS AND SYSTEM FOR VIDEO FAST FORWARD PLAYBACK FUNCTIONALITY IN A MOBILE PHONE

VIDEO MESSAGE SENDING

Method for detecting errors in a video signal

METHOD FOR ENCODING AND DECODING VIDEO INFORMATION, A MOTION COMPENSATED VIDEO ENCODER AND A CORRESPONDING DECODER

Video compressing method wherein the direction and location of contours within image blocks are defined using a binary picture of the block

A MOTION ESTIMATION METHOD AND A SYSTEM FOR A VIDEO CODER

METHOD FOR ENCODING AND DECODING VIDEO INFORMATION, A MOTION COMPENSATED VIDEO ENCODER AND A CORRESPONDING DECODER

Video encoder and decoder using motion-based segmentation and merging

Method and arrangement for reducing the volume or rate of an encoded digital video bitstream

ADAPTIVE MOTION VECTOR FIELD CODING

APPARATUS AND METHOD FOR COMPRESSING A MOTION VECTOR FIELD

Method and arrangement for combining video pictures

Error detection in low bit-rate video transmission

VIDEO DATA ENCODER AND DECODER

Re:Nokia and Software Patents

[Anonymous Coward]

They probably hope to patent handheld gaming or multifunction devices or something similar broad so they can sue Nintendo and Sony (once they join). That way we're all stuck with the NGage and portable gaming will die.

Re:Nokia and Software Patents

[Ayaress]

While they're at it, they can patent tacos, and make themselves into the SCO of Mexican cuisine. If they sue enough taco eaters, I'm sure one or two will cough up the $200 for a Nokia Taco License.

Re:Looks fine to me.

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I missing something?

Yes! A brain. Think before you post!

N-Gage (QD) value

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides of the obvious design flaws, I never quite understood the amount of negative feedback for N-Gage. A Series 60 phone with MP3-player, Bluetooth, Calendar, Java support, FM-radio and some Gaming capabilities for $200 (or even the original $300) was IMHO never that bad a deal.. Considering that Series 60 phones typically retail for about $400-600, the QD (without the major flaws) seems at least an reasonable deal.

The fact people are almost fanatical with their dislike with the N-Gage has never made sense to me. I guess one problem was that it was marketed as a game console even though it's still primarily a cell phone (with an innovative SideTalking (tm) interface ;)

I can understand that people prefer the $100 Gameboy as portable console or that they don't wan't hybrid device or that they just don't like the design, but people seem to take "hating the N-Gage" very personally.. Is this just another episode of the "One True Console"-wars, or what?

Re:N-Gage (QD) value

[MrAngryForNoReason]

A Series 60 phone with MP3-player, Bluetooth, Calendar, Java support, FM-radio and some Gaming capabilities for $200 (or even the original $300) was IMHO never that bad a deal..

Yes its a phone, but talking on it not only makes you look silly its also very difficult due to poor placement of the speaker and mic. Yes it plays games but the button layouts are poor and the screen flickers making playing for more than 10 mins painful on the eyes.

The reason it got such bad press it that it was a very poorly thought out product with some serious and blatant design flaws. They just fixed 2 of them, the game changing one is crucial to its success as a gaming system. But unless they have made it usable as an actual phone its not going to do well. Its only real advantage over the GBA is that it is a phone hybrid, if the phone part is crappy then sticking with your existing phone and buying a GBA for considerably less money is a much better plan.

Re:N-Gage (QD) value

[Blastrogath]

The N-Gage Does nothing well, it's:
1 A crappy game system
2 A heavily flawed phone

> people seem to take "hating the N-Gage" very personally

I object to the marketing and sale of crappy technology, and I suspect I'm not alone.

The N-Gage is so badly designed that it's one small step up from being outright defective. This device is flaws piled on defects.

I think it is morally wrong to sell people a product that is that badly designed. I don't think it's right to trade perfectly good money for technology that's so very poorly designed.

Re:N-Gage (QD) value

[BasilBrush]

Yes they sorted out the phone problem. It's not a taco shell anymore. The earpiece is now on the front of it, like an ordinary phone.

Re:N-Gage (QD) value

[Ayaress]

The fact people are almost fanatical with their dislike with the N-Gage has never made sense to me.

There are a lot of reasons it gained a fanatical hatred. Even better reasons than fanatically hating Microsoft if you ask me, and I hate them more than I hate Nokia (which is a lot). But rather than go into them, I'll say one thing:

That hatred of the NGage will sink the QD before it gets out of drydock. If I built an airship, and called it the HindenburgGS, how many people you think would ride it?

Re:N-Gage (QD) value

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes its a phone, but talking on it not only makes you look silly its also very difficult due to poor placement of the speaker and mic. Yes it plays games but the button layouts are poor and the screen flickers making playing for more than 10 mins painful on the eyes.

It works wonderfully with bluetooth headsets though. Well, theoretically. In reality, switching between the loudspeaker and headset is slow and irritating. It actually won't jump from one to the other, it has to manually switch to the normal speaker first, and then the headset. I think the things people are complaining about aren't the valid points. It isn't really designed to be a phone in the traditional sense. The problems are more with the Series 60 OS than anything else.

Re:N-Gage (QD) value

[bar-agent]

"Besides of the obvious design flaws, I never quite understood the amount of negative feedback for N-Gage."

That's it. That's the whole reason. Stop looking. Seriously, stop.

misunderstandings

[child_of_mercy]

OK, I think you're all misunderstanding this product.

It's not a destination, it's a journey.

The day after tommorrow there won't be phones, mp3 players, games consoles, or even computers as we currently think of them.

As it is why buy and ipod when your phone is going to have a Gb of storage and an mp3 player next year?

Interfaces will vary according to function, so you'll still have a keyboard and montior on your desktop, and a pad and a stylus in your palm, and a TV and huge speakers in your home.

But the storage and processing and comms will all be the one package that you'll carry around everywhere you go.

Nokia want a piece of that, the N-Gage is a step down that path.

Their building expertise and experience and making relationships with crucial content developers.

Microsoft, Intel, and Sony also see themselves as possible players in the space.

who's going to win?

My money's on the guys that embrace open standards and open source, simply because all this stuff is going to have to play together really well.

Anyway Nokia are trying to make the best product they can for now, but even if the next dozen N-Gages are flops have to keep trying to get it right.

Re:misunderstandings

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, I never heard it put that way before. Who would have thought that multi-million dollar corporations were dedicated to such a noble goal? To date /. has only taught me that corporations exist to make money for shareholders....

Re:misunderstandings

[child_of_mercy]

well whoever get it right will make a bloody fortune for their shareholders.

Re:misunderstandings

[Kizzle]

Take the enter key off of your keyboard. Throw it away.

Re:misunderstandings

[josh glaser]

"OK, I think you're all misunderstanding this product."

OK. Shoot.

"It's not a destination, it's a journey."

Yeah, but I don't go on vacation for the highways, I go on vacation for the Disneylands. It may very well be a look at the future, but it's an etremely poorly designed look. I pay for tickets to see the movie, not the trailers - I'm not going to spend $200 on a phone (as ahead of it's time it might be) if it doesn't work right now.

"The day after tommorrow there won't be phones, mp3 players, games consoles, or even computers as we currently think of them."

Pretty bold prediction there.

"As it is why buy and ipod when your phone is going to have a Gb of storage and an mp3 player next year?"

Because the iPod will have 80 GB next year.

"Interfaces will vary according to function, so you'll still have a keyboard and montior on your desktop, and a pad and a stylus in your palm, and a TV and huge speakers in your home.

But the storage and processing and comms will all be the one package that you'll carry around everywhere you go."

That may be true, but I doubt it.

"Nokia want a piece of that, the N-Gage is a step down that path."

A baby step. It's a bad phone and a bad gaming machine. If, say, the PSP could play good games and work well as a phone, I would certainly be happy. But the N-Gage doesn't.

"Their building expertise and experience and making relationships with crucial content developers."

That sentence is pretty much incomprehensible. Moving along...

"Microsoft, Intel, and Sony also see themselves as possible players in the space.

who's going to win?"

Your guess is as good as mine...

"My money's on the guys that embrace open standards and open source, simply because all this stuff is going to have to play together really well."

For this stuff to play together really well, people will have to embrace open standards.

"Anyway Nokia are trying to make the best product they can for now, but even if the next dozen N-Gages are flops have to keep trying to get it right."

This is their best product? Ouch.

It's gonna take a lot of work to make such an all-in-one device more than a jack-of-all-trades affair. A few minor changes to the N-Gage won't fix that. I doubt a dozen revisions to the N-Gage will, because the N-Gage is extremely deeply flawed. When an all-in-one device comes, I will certainly praise it, like it, buy it.

But the N-Gage is not that device.

Re:misunderstandings

[child_of_mercy]

you're a pedant trying to pick a fight, but lets move on.

OK, how much storage does a music player need?

It needs enough to last you the duration of your trip.

5MB for a three minute song, 8 hours in the work day, thats 800MB for 160 songs. Very few people (backpackers and truck drivers aside) need more than that.

OK, you don't share the vision of the future, cool. But all the major players seem to think it's coming, and this is nokia's response.

You don't like it, great. Would I buy it? Not on your life.

But it's not like Nokia are the only company that fails miserably on the first rev.

Re:misunderstandings

[KeeperS]

OK, I think you're all misunderstanding this product.

It's not a destination, it's a journey.

This is insightful? When I'm buying something, I'm not going to buy the product that might get there someday in some future incarnation, I'm going to get the one that's worth buying now. The GBA is there now, but the N-Gage isn't even close. Even if your predictions for the future are completely correct, releasing a crappy product that nobody buys won't help Nokia in the present, and it'll also hurt their image in the long run.

Anyway Nokia are trying to make the best product they can for now, but even if the next dozen N-Gages are flops have to keep trying to get it right.

The problem is that Nokia isn't trying to make the best product they can for now. The original N-Gage had several obvious flaws that just about everyone pointed out before it was released. Those flaws were never fixed, despite ample time to do so. This new model seems to fix some of the problems, but many others remain, such as the vertical screen and crappy game library.

Re:formula for disaster

[FrYGuY101]

Don't be so harsh on the NGAGE man! It combines the Video Gaming possibilities of an ordinary phone with the reception and sound quality of a 1980's Gameboy! I hear it's like talking into a taco!

N-Gage was a cool platform. QD won't be.

[otter42]

I used to have an N-Gage. Until it broke and then got stolen. (Fortunately in that order.) The platform was actually quite good for what it was, and quite terrible for what it was advertised for.

From a computing standpoint, the thing was awesome. It ran Java apps, so that meant that within 24 hours of owning one, I had already downloaded a messenger client so I could be on all the IMs 24-7, no matter where I was.

Then there was the ogg player, the Gameboy emulator, etc. All for free.

Plus, it could understand Palm Pilot files, so no need to carry around both if all you use in the Palm is the address book. With a 512MB card, it was like carrying around a giant USB key, one that I used both under Linux AND Windows.

However, this new one looks as if it takes all the funcionality away with it's awkward button layout. It's never been easy to type on a cell phone. With this design, it'll be practically impossible.

And since I never played any N-Gage games on it, 'cause they were terribly boring and the platform was no good as a game machine, I agree with an earlier poster-- QD= Quiet Death. I won't be buying another one, that's for certain.

Re:N-Gage was a cool platform. QD won't be.

[Tony Hoyle]

You'd have been better off with a P800 or P900 (P900 looks cooler). It does all this, costs half as much (on contract anyway) and doesn't look stupid.

It also has a faster processor. There's a camera too that can shoot movies (although the camera quality is a bit crappy so don't buy one for that).

Re:N-Gage was a cool platform. QD won't be.

[otter42]

I think the "half as much" stuff is a function of location. IIRC, when I went looking for a new telephone (Dijon, FRANCE) the P900 didn't yet exist and the P800 was around 450Euro, with contract. The N-Gage was 99Euro with contract (which fell to 0Euro, 15 days after the 30-day price guarantee ran out!). Anyway, the gamepad was a really nice feature for playing games, something that the P800 doesn't have.

The whole reason I bought the phone was because my Philips phone was broken. I wouldn't do it again, but I don't regret having bought 1st generation technology for the first time in my life. The N-Gage fit my needs. The others didn't.

Re:N-Gage was a cool platform. QD won't be.

[focitrixilous P]

Until it broke and then got stolen.
Poor thief must have missed the thief memo a while back. Why look for N-Gages when you can find so many more iPods, which are worth more?

Selling Ice to Eskimos or Condoms to Lesbians

[Lord Kano]

Nokia is making a HUGE mistake with the N-Gage. They're trying to muscle in on two markets at once with this. Nintendo is the undisputed heavyweight champion of mobile gaming, and they have been for half of my life. From the time of the original Gameboy no one has been able to unseat them, dispite better products. Sega's Game Gear, Atari's Lynx, NEC's Turbo Express, and the Pocket Neo Geo were all superior to Nintendo's offering of the day; each and every one of them got their asses stomped by Nintendo. This one will be no different.

They have a large stake in the cell phone market, in a sense they're trying to sell a gaming device to people who just want a cell phone. People who want a cell phone will buy a cell phone, possibly one of Nokia's. Their cell business will eat away potential customers of N-Gage. People who want mobile gaming AND cell phones will buy a Gameboy and a cell phone.

What they've done is put themselves in a no win situation. They're trying to sell things that people either don't need or don't want.

Ice and Condoms.

LK

Re:Selling Ice to Eskimos or Condoms to Lesbians

[FrYGuY101]

Sega's Game Gear was better?

I guess you had enough cash to replace all 8 AA batteries ever half hour of game play... I mean, that thing sucked down batteries like a friggin' bat outta hell...

Re:Selling Ice to Eskimos or Condoms to Lesbians

[Lord Kano]

Sega's Game Gear was better?

Yes.

I guess you had enough cash to replace all 8 AA batteries ever half hour of game play... I mean, that thing sucked down batteries like a friggin' bat outta hell...

256 colors on a backlit screen used more power than the GBs black and white display. Does this really surprise you?

LK

Re:Selling Ice to Eskimos or Condoms to Lesbians

[FrYGuY101]

You missed my point.

As a *mobile gaming platform*, One of the most important things to consider is battery life. You COULD NOT take a Game Gear on, say, a road trip, unless you brought 2 extra 64 packs of batteries to feed it when it got hungry...

And, that is why it failed as a *mobile gaming platform*. You couldn't USE it unless it was plugged into the wall, unless you had a MAJOR battery budget.

Re:Selling Ice to Eskimos or Condoms to Lesbians

[Lord Kano]

You missed my point.

I didn't miss your point, I just don't agree with it.

You COULD NOT take a Game Gear on, say, a road trip, unless you brought 2 extra 64 packs of batteries to feed it when it got hungry...

And, that is why it failed as a *mobile gaming platform*. You couldn't USE it unless it was plugged into the wall, unless you had a MAJOR battery budget.

Road Trip=Car. Car=Access to 12 volt power. Car Lighter Power Adapter + access to 12 volt power = your point doesn't apply.

I HAD such an adapter for my game gear.

LK

Re:Selling Ice to Eskimos or Condoms to Lesbians

[FrYGuY101]

Unless you were in an airplane, or bus, or a van and weren't in the front seat, or were any place where you had no access to electricity.

You may have thought it superior, but the majority of people didn't. That's why it failed. I felt, and still feel, that it's inferior to the original gameboy simply because it's battery consumption was god-awful. I honestly once went through fresh batteries in under half an hour with the Game Gear, whereas the Gameboy would last seemly endlessly on only two AA's. Which brings me back to my original point. Battery consuption is a very important thing to consider when you're dealing with a Portable Gaming console. The Game Gear simply wasn't portable, it was something you only brought when you knew you could plug it in, and it failed as a result.

Re:Selling Ice to Eskimos or Condoms to Lesbians

[tomstdenis]

Minor nitpick but didn't the original GB use 4 AA batteries? It was only the pocket and GBC that moved to 2 AA batteries [and longer life to boot].

From what I recall with the original GB it would last 6 or so hours on 2 AA batteries. I used a battery pack for the most part cuz I loved FFII and didn't have the $$$ for fresh batteries.

Though I agree with the comments on the game gear. I had one and the few games I had were decent but killing AA batteries in 15 minutes [I had some noname red batteries] was a killing point for me.

Tom

Re:Selling Ice to Eskimos or Condoms to Lesbians

[asb]

Nokia is making a HUGE mistake with the N-Gage. They're trying to muscle in on two markets at once with this.

The last time I checked Nokia didn't need to muscle in to the mobile phone market. They already were the biggest player in that field.

And they're not trying to sell a gaming device to people who jsut want a phone either. They have 50 "just the phone" models for those people.

And people who want mobile gaming won't always buy a Nintendo. Especially when the GBA is such a huge and awful looking gadget. Nintendo targets their devices for children (just look at the design of their products). Most adults wouldn't want to be caught playing on a Nintendo. Nintendo knows this and will not alienate their customers (the children).

And who the hell thought you were being insightful?

Re:Selling Ice to Eskimos or Condoms to Lesbians

[Lord Kano]

You may have thought it superior, but the majority of people didn't. That's why it failed.

It's not subjective. Bigger screen, colors, backlight. From a technical perspective it was a superior system.

I honestly once went through fresh batteries in under half an hour with the Game Gear, whereas the Gameboy would last seemly endlessly on only two AA's.

Maybe yours was incredibly bad or mine was incredibly good but I used to get at least 2 1/2 hours out of batteries for mine.

The Game Gear simply wasn't portable, it was something you only brought when you knew you could plug it in, and it failed as a result.

It failed, just like all the rest of their competitors failed, because Nintendo is the king in that market.

LK

BTW

[mirko]

Look at the console/phone I refer to from my journal...
Doesn't it remind you of something ?

Re:formula for disaster

[Lord Kano]

I hear it's like talking into a taco!

Women listen best when you talk "into the taco".

Trust me.

LK

Games? That's not what color screens are for...

[Anonymous Coward]

We need good mobile device with color screens to look at something else.

Well, let's see what's happened.

[Inoshiro]

As someone who quite seriously bought the N-Gage as the cheapest unlocked GSM worldphone I could get, I think I'm in the position to review the changes ;)

In positives steps, the new N-Gage QD is:
* A bit smaller (nice of them).
* Hot-swapable MMC (not a big deal, really).
* Better battery life (YAY).
* Separate OK button (double YAY!).
* The d-pad and buttons seem ok (E3 well tell if they're any good).
* Auto-run for inserted MMC games (eeh).
* Vibration/enchanced speaker for games.
* Quick-game key (handy if they had good games).

However, there are some significant drawbacks for those who want some of the features of the original phone:
* It's dual-band (EGSM 900/1800) -- no more 1900 support (the band we use in North America). No more GSM phone use in North America with N-Gage QD.
* Also no more radio support, which also means no more recording radio (I listen to the radio a lot when I've listened to the MP3s I have too much).
* And no more MP3 or AAC support (which is the main use for my phone besides a phone).
* Movies? Nope!

Essentially, it's a $200 USD Gameboy in North America, since it has none of the features which redeemed the original N-Gage, except the ability to play AAA-quality gaming titles on MMC.

I don't know how the folks at Nokia can claim that the N-Gage games are AAA-quality titles. I guess most Gameboy games are AAAAAAAAAA-quality titles, because every single one of the games I've tried has sucked so fucking much. But, hey, at least I got a phone/mp3 player/movie phone/mms capable/colour with calendering device out of it. Purchasers of the N-Gage QD won't get that at all.

I don't think Nokia will be back for a third round, considering they've lost the second round right here. If they'd managed to get any decent titles, it might be a different story, but no one except maybe Nintendo seems to have the ability to float a platform with 1st-party titles. Without really great 3rd-party wooing via buckets of money (MS) or sheer momentum (Sony), there's no way to get into the game market. Sorry, Nokia, but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Re:Well, let's see what's happened.

[haunebu]

* It's dual-band (EGSM 900/1800) -- no more 1900 support (the band we use in North America). No more GSM phone use in North America with N-Gage QD.

It actually comes in two versions - one for Europe (GSM 900/1800) and one for North America (GSM 850/1900), which means you'll have dual band support on both continents, which is great. The downside is that it'll no longer work when you're travelling across the pond.

Re:Well, let's see what's happened.

[AdamInParadise]

I totally agree with you. At 1(one) Euro, mine was great value, even if the games suck.

Re:Well, let's see what's happened.

[Xugumad]

Yes, but you can always play Ogg Vorbis on it:

http://symbianoggplay.sourceforge.net/

and isn't that what's really important in life?

It's still too big to use as a mobile

[edxwelch]

Nobodys going to use this thing as a mobile unless it's small enough to fit in your pocket. Also, the screen should be oriented horizontaly, not vertically

Re:It's still too big to use as a mobile

[haggar]

Actually, this thing is tiny! It's smaller and thinner than the original N-Gage, which wasn't too big to begin with. I have no idea where you got the idea the QD is too big?!?

Re:It's still too big to use as a mobile

[MacroRex]

Undoubtedly they'll change the screen orientation in the N-Gage 2(Nokia tries to react to user feedback), but this is supposed to be compatible with the games designed for the vertical screen in the original N-Gage. As for the form factor, the pictures seem to make it look a lot more massive that it is. Reading from the specs the QD looks quite small, definitely small enough to fit in your pocket.

Re:It's still too big to use as a mobile

[edxwelch]

The origional was definately bigger than any mobile I have seen. I suppose you could just about cram it into your pocket, but the bluge wouldn't look too nice.
How do you know that the new version is smaller? The artical doesn't give dimensions.

Re:It's still too big to use as a mobile

[edxwelch]

wait, now I looked at nokia's home page, they show a picture compairing the two N-gages, and your right it's much smaller.

Re:It's still too big to use as a mobile

[Anonymous Coward]

It's smaller but thicker, actually.

Re:It's still too big to use as a mobile

[Anonymous Coward]

bigger than any mobile I have seen

After the original Mobira (Nokia) Cityman, every cellphone ever made has been "small" ;-)

Hey, it wasn't that bad. Battery life was tolerable and it supported SideTalkin'

Re:Dudes! They can't take away my sidetalkin'!

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone else think sidetalking.com is a site started by Nintendo intented to hurt the image, and by extension sales, of N-Gage? You can't fight over market like this with press releases, so they start this low-key site and let it all take care of itself. It's bloody brilliant.

Hell there must be big money behind the site, it's loaded with pictures but has no problems with slashdotting.

Headphone Jack?

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be nice... especially for train/bus/road trip solitude.

commercials

[mac os ken]

Has anyone seen the commercial for the football game for N-Gage. Is it just me or does that this stutter like a 486 running XP? How in the heck did that make it past marketing?

The other commercials are just laughable. The games that are on N-Gage I could go buy in the clearance bin at my local videogame store.

There is a saying Nokia. It goes something like, "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice..."

Re:commercials

[FrYGuY101]

Oh! I know that one...

President Bush taught it to me... Lesse...

"Fool me once...shame on you. Fool me twice......er.....look, you ain't gonna fool me again..."

That's the one, right?

Re:commercials

[mrrazz]

Obligatory futurama reference:

"Fool me seven times shame on you, Fool me eight or more times shame on me" -- Amy Wong

Re: Condoms to Lesbians = good business

[Anonymous Coward]

FWIW; even lesbians can use condoms for purposes of hygiene - it's a recommended practice to cover whatever playthings with one, from fresh greens to a pink dildo.

Maybe this niche market should be targeted with special condoms...

One small thing..

[superhoe]

A device which you can use to call + receive phone calls, play games (emulator as well, from gameboy to C64 and MAME), use calendar, browse net, email, listen to radio, mp3 and do pretty much anything else by installing loads of nice s60 software. F.ex. Teletext application is my big favourite.

Is even $200 (if it's even that much) really expensive for all that? For me, it is definitely not. I'm unaffiliated with Nokia; I just like this particular device because it's very useful and cheap phone which allows me to do everything I wish and lots more.

Re:One small thing..

[Tony Hoyle]

Pretty much any symbian phone can do this. Heck, I even run Opera on mine.

For a lot less than $200 too.

Re:One small thing..

[decade_null]

Name one Symbian phone that costs less than 200$ without operator subsidies.

Re:One small thing..

[Anonymous Coward]

No mp3 or radio support right out of the box anymore.

No MP3 player?!

[thesaur]

Wow! Many young people use their phones for that purpose. MP3 ringtones, anyone? And that's why certain models are more popular among than others. Especially if they have at least 32MB of memory.

Really stupid move on Nokia's part, but then... I'm sure an MP3 player will be available for download sometime, so we'll see how it goes. And anyway, they can always offer that in a firmware update.

So don't count Nokia out yet...

Re:No MP3 player?!

[Jarnis]

It's a symbian phone. You can install a separate MP3 player.

Lack of radio is slightly annoying tho.

Re:No MP3 player?!

[gl4ss]

..but on at least regular n-gage, 6600, 3650 and etc regular symbian apps can't output at higher quality than 16khz vs. 44khz of that mp3 chip. so it _is_ a turnoff.

.

Re:No MP3 player?!

[Linux Ate My Dog!]

For that funky mono sound. The N-Gage had a stereo headset. The QD ships with a mono headset and I think the jack is mono itself.

Missing it completly

[AdamInParadise]

I think you're missing the point of the N-Gage.

Think: handheld game console + cell phone = ? Mobile online gaming of course! Even the demo game shipped with the N-Gage supported that. Of course for now the GPRS charges are killing it, but it the near future, this is going to be huge!

Re:Missing it completly

[aruohtula]

Huge like WAP! Imagine the Internet in your pocket!

Re:Missing it completly

[Threni]

> Huge like WAP! Imagine the Internet in your pocket!

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but thanks to WAP I can read my (POP3) email wherever I am, for free (ie WAP minutes come out of my free mins each month). I can check out eBay, order stuff from Amazon.

If Slashdot pulled their finger out, I'd even be able to read it when I'm out and about, but it's buggered at the moment.

N-gage Reviews

[PatJensen]

So I went looking for reviews of the new N-gage QD - of which they are none. But I wandered over to Amazon and noticed the usual pre-teen idiots, babbling in all lowercase and using half of the alphabet on how cool it was going to be BEFORE it was released - like every other Amazon video game review.

Does that bother anyone else or is it just me? Everytime I go to Amazon and read those stupid 11 year-old video game reviews I get turned off and remember why I don't shop there. The stupid reviews make my skin crawl. Speaking of which, the 1st gen N-gage should go for pretty cheap on eBay when the new ones come out.

Just a pet peeve of mine. Why go for reviews when I can read what the educated Slashdot community has to say!

-Pat

Re:N-gage Reviews

[Anonymous Coward]

Why go for reviews when I can read what the educated Slashdot community has to say!

+1, Funny.

Re:N-gage Reviews

[iapetus]

yes coz i never seen it yet but ngaeg qd is teh kewlest ggameboy suxx its for girls

Re:Dudes! They can't take away my sidetalkin'!

[Galvatron]

Who cares who was funding it? That site is hilarious, and side talking is stupid. Side talking would still be stupid even if that site did not exist.

Finally!

[ooPo]

Now we can get to complaining about the real meat of the Ngage: Boy do those games SUCK!

Buttons

[antic]

Ah, Nokia, masters of convoluted button arrangements and rearrangements. Go and have a look at a page of product shots and find two phones with buttons that look remotely similar. Each model, they change shape and layout to make it even more difficult to dial a fucking number. Nice work, kids.

Re:Buttons

[Anonymous Coward]

How about 3310 vs. 3330?

Re:Buttons

[jorleif]

Why would anyone dial a number on a cellular!?

I'd love to, but...

[Inoshiro]

Latest File Releases
Package Version Date Notes / Monitor Download
This Project Has Not Released Any Files
[View All Project Files]

No files exist to download. I've looked and looked, and all I see is a pretty PR stating that they released something in March. But I can't download it, and I can't find it, so they might as well have released a paper hat for all the use I'm getting out of it.

What I want is something I can use under Linux that'll produce movie files that RealOne on my N-Gage will play. I'd also like to be able to sync it to my Palm Calender and Address book, and have voice dialing work again. Any hints?

Re:I'd love to, but...

[Kris_J]

I can help with this bit:

What I want is something I can use under Linux that'll produce movie files that RealOne on my N-Gage will play.

Helix. For the S60 player, start here, register if you have to. Once you're logged in the complete set of files includes everything you need to produce files on Linux, MacOS and Windows.

Syncing I can't help with because I don't properly use any computer-based PIM. Voice Dialing, I haven't gotten around to sorting out, but I'm guessing you need a Bluetooth headset for it to work. Love to be proved wrong though.

Re:I'd love to, but...

[S3D]

I'd also like to be able to sync it to my Palm Calender and Address book
Is there a market for such an application if priced around 15$ ? If there is, it will be written soon (may be even by me, but I would have to buy a plam). It may be even on sale already, check handango.com (disclamer - I'm not affiliated with handango in any way for now). If there is no at least couple of thousand people ready to pay for it no one will bother with writing it commertially, though somebody could write it for himself and release for free...

What about 6820?

[MacroRex]

If you want a phone you can type with (and the Communicator is too big for you), then the 6820 is for you. A friend of mine has one, and though the keyboard might look kludgy it's actually very good for a portable keyboard. Within minutes I was comfortably typing away. And the phone does Java, too.

Osama bin Laden is a lying scumbag

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just michael. You'll get modded down for any useless offtopic post that just says someone is a lying scumbag and nothing else.

Re:Osama bin Laden is a lying scumbag

[Anonymous Coward]

Too true! What's with all this crap about Michael anyhow? OK, so not all of his stories are that great, but then some of the other editors aren't much better (cough*Taco*cough), but you don't see people wading in here calling them "lying scumbags". Who'd he piss off, and how?

It's *not* the N-Gage 2

[Dynamoo]

Rumors about an N-Gage 2 have been doing the rounds for a while. This isn't the N-Gage 2 - it's a stripped down version of the original with a couple of enhancements, and I guess this is actually a good thing.

But.. they've taken out MP3 support, the radio and still haven't added a digital camera. The display is a little small by current standards too.

My guess is that the "N-Gage 2" will be announced in a few months time with another model name (what the heck does QD stand for anyway) and will have more features, and maybe a better screen.

Doing it this way means that they should still be able to shift the original N-Gages still in the supply chain, then they can announce the "N-Gage 2" later.

There's a useful independent writeup of the N-Gage 2 here.

Re:It's *not* the N-Gage 2

[sjofi]

QD stand for quick and dirty (as you said, no ngage2, but a stripped down ngage1.

This will sell well

[Jarnis]

This will be a hit. I know first N-Cage was a dog, but look;

- It no longer looks stupid
- You can hotswap cards (upto 256MB MMC cards)
- Its a *full series60 phone for 199$ with upto 256MB memory for apps/MP3s*. Web browsing, email, downloadable Symbian apps...

While the screen is still small, considering that you previously had to pay 400$+ for these features I think its a great deal. Lack of triband sucks for US guys, but I honestly could not care less.

I was already 'sold' on the first one as a cheap phone with good feature set, but the 'sidetalking' issue killed it for me personally and I skipped it when it became obivious that an improved version was coming. It just looked stupid and I didn't feel like using a HandsFree-kit. Nokia fixed the major issues, is selling it cheaply considering the feature set as a *phone*, and as a bonus it has some promising titles incoming. Those buying it as a 'gaming machine' first may be disappointed. I'm looking at a phone that has some added features, and as such I'm happy with what I see.

Or could someone else point out a comparable phone for 199$? If we ignore triband, what other phone at that price offers all the non-game features that N-Cage QD has? Please enlighten me!

Re:This will sell well

[Ayaress]

It's got the N-Gage name working against it, though. If you made an airship, and called it the HindenburgGS, how many people you think would ride it?

Re:This will sell well

[clgoh]

You mean thisN-Cage?

Two things Nokia got right...

[Anonymous Coward]

The N-Gage QD appears to offer nothing at all over the original N-Gage, apart from two things: the C key is with the rest of the keypad (if you make a mistake when typing an SMS, you have to go right over to the other end of the phone), and the MMC slot is accessible. Everything else makes it just look crap.

Over here in the UK, the N-Gage sells for UKP100 on a pay-as-you-go connection. That's under half the price of the 6600, which has fewer features than the N-Gage (no MP3, no radio, etc). Knock it all you like, but the N-Gage is the only device I can find for UKP100 that combines MP3 player, FM radio and phone. Never mind the fact that it lets me IRC on the train.

From the technical specs @ Nokias site:

[semenes]

* Front talk phone designS

They seem to have a sense of humour there :)

Anyways, a Series 60 phone with Bluetooth, GRPS, HSCSD, big colour screen etc .. Retailing for the lower-end consumer price?? Seems like a good bargain to me, even without the games.

Official site

[BasilBrush]

Nokia's Official site is here

Re:Gamefaqs joke...

[1arkhaine]

You post on LUE, don't you??

Nokia's official press release...

[macsuibhne]

is here

Re:Looks fine to me.

[BasilBrush]

The slashdot crowd are very reactionary. They make a snap mob judgement on whether something is good or bad, and then stick with it, no matter what. It makes not a damn bit of difference whether Nokia have fixed the flaws in the ngage. Nokia is evil and ngage sucks, and that is that!

why..

[Neo's Nemesis]

if i remember correctly, i think nokia had a loooooong time ago said "Why would any adult like to be seen with a gameboy or equivalent in hand. N-gage just makes that totally cool". or something of the sort..

After the release of n-gage. i don't find that true to any point. the design isn't that fabuloso. It doesn't get any easy on your hands while you get a call playing a game. Hopefully this release would do something abt that

All that Jive

[permaculture]

It's just your side talkin'
You're telling me lies, yeah
side talkin'
You wear a disguise
side talkin'
So misunderstood, yeah
side talkin'
You really no good

Oh, my phone
You'll never know
Just what you mean to me
Oh, my phone
You got so much
You're gonna take away my money-ee

Re:formula for disaster

[Anonymous Coward]

Women listen best when you talk "into the taco".

Unless you piss them off and then it's like "talk to the hand coz the taco ain't listening".

One thing to point out

[Effugas]

Yes, the nGage itself is a steaming pile of crap -- and everyone knew it, from the moment we excitedly tried it at GDC last year. And we all know the games for nGage suck -- Nokia, memo from 1987, sprite acceleration makes Puzzle Bobble play at speeds higher than 7fps. But what's not well realized is that, for all of the Gameboy Advance's massive library, the vast majority of the content is Atari-market-crash level crap, and most of the remainder is unplayable by anyone over the age of 14.

Don't believe me? I swear on everything that is true in this world that the following was excitedly exclaimed from a Fry's in Campbell, CA, just a scant few months ago:

"Mommy! Mommy! It's American Idol for the Gameboy Advance!"

The kid was ten. The game was not purchased.

Don't get me wrong. I own a GBA. Hell, it's my second one, since I lost my first one. There's a good dozen games on the system that are actually playable -- the Castlevanias, the Metroids, some of the work coming out of Squaresoft. But even if the hardware is the spiritual successor of the SNES, the software selection is embarassing, bordering on mortifying.

And Nokia knows all this -- they know there's a pent up demand for gaming that scales to people who don't need to beg for a candy bar. Sony knows this -- and could actually destroy Nintendo on a whim, simply by releasing a handheld Playstation 1 (and re-releasing
a small chunk of the old library on new media). But everyone seems to be skipping a generation of failed machines (the "Don't Be Sega" effect?) and trying, better or worse, to do portable, multiplayer 3D gaming right.

And if you don't think MS is in this game, you're not paying attention to those "portable video players" with DRM support and space for a gamepad.

There's alot at stake here. I'm frankly surprised to still see Nokia still involved -- if nGage was any worse, the FCC probably would have refused to certify it on principal -- but you can't fault their recognition of the potential size of this market. Nintendo may have owned this space since the 80's -- but they've gone from the company that returned quality to video games ("Nintendo Seal of Quality" meant something) to ... well, one that adds another screen.

Yay.

--Dan

If they really want to improve sales they should..

[CrackedButter]

...bundle it with either Duke Nukem Forever or offer a rebate when purchasing it with a Phantom Console.
The running theme in this post is that nobody "gets it".

Re:Dudes! They can't take away my sidetalkin'!

[Ayaress]

It's not like the old ugly-ass one won't work anymore.

And you know they'll come up with some way to make the new version suck even more than the old tacophones.

Ok, I gotta ask it...

[Ayaress]

Maybe I didn't RTFA carefully enough, but I didn't see anywhere that said what the hell QD is supposed to mean (jokes aside).

Did Nokia look at the GBA SP and WinXP and think that two random letters made something better? At least SP and XP imply things, like SPecial, or eXPonential or something, that can be contrived to mean "better.

I'm going to start appending random letters to my name, too, and make myself a better person. From now on, you all call me AyaressFQ.

Re:Ok, I gotta ask it...

[polyp2000]

urm ...

Quick Death ?

Re:Ok, I gotta ask it...

[Anonymous Coward]

> what the hell QD is supposed to mean

It doesn't mean anything. It's just a name.

Some designers are idiots.

[t_allardyce]

Just how much crack was involved in the creation of side-talking i think no-one will ever know. But thats nothing on some of Sony's mobile software, these are the fuckwits that thought it would be cool to have the phone loose the text message you were typing when someone calls or miss-alls, although i have to give it to them, ive smashed my phone against hard surfaces many many times in outrage at its poorly designed software and i mean really smashed it with all my heart and its still working!

Better photos and analysis from GameSpy

[redune45]

Found this article at GameSpy.
Has a lot of cool pictures of the the N-Gage as well as a hands on preview.
It almost makes me want one of these things (Never had any desire for that old ugly thing)

I'm sure it's been said before

[AliasTheRoot]

The nGage was badly designed as both a phone and a handheld game platform. there will be some unit that combines gba with phone, but this (and all historical upstarts) isnt it.

Now It's About The Games

[blueZhift]

While many here are counting Nokia out, they actually have a good chance of success. First, by coming out with a redesigned console so quickly, they show that they are serious about making it in the gaming market. This is not good news for Nintendo or Sony at all.

It is no surprise either that the redesign came out so fast. Nokia makes cel phones! Cel phone designs and features seem to change on almost a weekly basis. So it is likely that Nokia is accustomed to working on short design and manufacturing cycles. Indeed, this may be why they felt they could release the first N-Gage with all of the design errors. Again, this is not good news for Sony or Nintendo who are accustomed to longer cycles.

In the end, it will be the games that decide who makes real money in the portable space. If Nokia gets traction, we'll see a real fight. I would guess that Nintendo is most at risk because they haven't had a real fight in the portable space in yea...like ever. Sony I think will recognize the threat and use their muscle and money to get exclusives for the PSP early. But the PSP had better not be too late to market, or they'll be looking at the 3rd or 4th iteration of N-Gage by then. Finally, one wildcard here is Microsoft. MS has said they're not interested in the portable market. That said, MS makes the best development tools in the business, if it suddenly becomes easy to develop for Nokia using Visual Studio .Net (which it is not right now) and XNA suddenly is part of the mix, then things could get interesting.

Re:Dudes! They can't take away my sidetalkin'!

[Brie Eyeball]

woah a server full of images . . . of people making fun of the N-gage! yay!

meta mod

[Anonymous Coward]

shouldn't this be rated "funny"?

Buried in the desert?

[dankdirk77]

Whenever I think of N-Gage, I think of all those E.T. Atari 2600 games that are buried in the desert somewhere. Nokia supposedly manufactured at least 500,000 - 1,000,000 N-Gage, so don't you think they're scoping out possible deserts right now?

Basically...

[bonch]

You're saying we should ignore everything else being bad because nobody complained about controls not being worse or its thickness. You're kidding, right? It's a nice piece of kit because nobody complained about those two things?

Re:Basically...

[Kris_J]

No, I'm giving two example. Here's another; This post was made from my N-gage.

games not compatible

[dr.fishopolis]

amazingly, it seems that this new n-gage will not be 100% compatible with v1 games, and/or vice versa. From this off-site link (Raiskinen is the Senior VP of Games at Nokia):

Raiskinen said several games were being developed for the new device, most of which will be compatible with both the original N-Gage and the QD version.

The original N-Gage has more than 10 games already available, with more coming. An additional 50 are in development for QD, and most will be compatible between the two devices.

so add "guaranteed shelf life of at least 3 months" to that growing list of reasons to own an n-gage.

The N-Gage 2 might be all right,

[Kiyooka]

but Slashdot's icon for gaming is still a Gameboy!

The hardware wasn't the problem

[faust2097]

Am I the only one who knows that the main reason the N-Gage was and will continue to be a failure is its complete lack of good games? There's only 14 titles out now for it and not a whole lot more on the horizon.

It doesn't matter how good your hardware is without titles to back it up you're tanked.

Still a butt-ugly toy

[fzammett]

You would think something with so many buttons would be a geek's dream, but this just falls flat. The first one was ugly, but at least it was black (black makes any piece of tech look cooler!), but this time, ugh, ugh, and ugh again.

*

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It doesn't have an mp3 player, that was REMOVED

[Anonymous Coward]

So basically any CDMA/BREW phone on the market offers the same non-game features.

Thanks for playing.

Tony Hawk?

[huchida]

Without subsidy from a service provider, the phone will go for $199 (with the platform's Tony Hawk title bundled in at that price).

Tony Hawk? Can't we retire that game already?

Re:formula for disaster

[Anthony Boyd]

Women listen best when you talk "into the taco".

This is Slashdot. Your advice is useless here.