Slashdot Mirror
A Camaro That Leaves A Wake
Artana Niveus Corvum writes "I came across this entirely at random, but it seems like someone with too much time on his hands has taken an old idea and improved on it... and come up with something truly unique and cool: a car based on a 2002 Camaro body with a Subaru WRX Turbo engine (300 horsepower) capable of going over 125MPH that doubles as a boat capable of going over 40MPH."
2 below-threshold comments and it's down ... come on people, you're like the hand of a vengeful god of websites!
I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
This will sure resolve all those commuter issues in Venice.
40MPH? What's that in knots?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Engine 2.5 Subaru Turbo
Transmission Rancho 4-Speed Manual
Jet Berkeley 12 JE
Length 207"
Width 75"
Height 49"
Weight 2775 Lbs.
Wheelbase 100"
Road Speed 125 MPH
Water Speed 45 MPH
Fuel Capacity 22 Gallons
BUT WHAT IS THE PRICE?
Webmaster of Infoweb
Now if only their server had power to match that...
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
Intresting article I am sure. But before more than a few comments are posted, its already toasted. The editors need to have some sort of mirror... google, anything.
snowulf.com
at a dead stop cause it was slashdotted!
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Slight nitpick, but is it using the engine from a WRX or an STi? They're essentially the same car, but the WRX puts out around 230 horsepower whereas the STi puts out either 276 or 300, depending on where in the world you are.
This is a really interesting project either way, neat hack.
Wow, who would of thought THIS would ever be ON TOPIC?!?! Maybe he wasn't kidding?
"Uh, how you gonna get down to the shore?
Funny you should ask, I've got a car now.
Oh wow, how'd you get a car?
Oh, my parents drove it up here from the Bahamas.
You're kidding!
I must be, the Bahamas are islands, okay, the important thing now, is
that you ask me what kind of car I have.
Uh, what kinda car do ya got?
I've got a
BITCHIN CAMARO!....."
(go find the MP3... legaly of course)
~Z
no they switched to "olds".
De sig boss de sig
Google Cache Here
Find out about the Lexus Rx400h Hybrid!
It's like a case mod made to look like a can of Hamm's.
I'm a friend of a friend of the working class.
Looks like we sunk his battleship.. err, server
Slashdot sucks
Dave March - Builder of the WaterCar
WaterCar, Inc. is the brainchild of Dave March and his two sons. For over thirty years March has been an avid high performance car and boat enthusiast. His passion and desire has been for building and piloting fast planes, boats and cars. To facilitate his obsession for cars and boats he also developed a knack for repairing wrecked cars and boats. For the past twenty years March started and developed his collision repair business into one of the largest, most state of the art facilities in the world. He then took many of the systems and repair techniques that he developed and co-founded the Caliber Collision Center Franchise which currently has annual revenue of over 155 million.
In 1998 March accepted an offer to sell his business and semi-retired. After putting the finishing touches on his large custom home he built on the golf course in Newport Coast above his 6,000 square foot basement garage/design center equipped with every conceivable tool and piece of equipment imaginable found himself with a lot of spare time and pent up creative juices. This is dangerous combination for Dave March. He was looking for a challenge when his youngest son began looking at amphibious cars. Together they found a 1964 Amphicar and restored it. After all the work, they were disappointed by its performance. It was fun to drive into the water, but once in the water, it was slow and not as much fun as expected.
March threw himself into researching every amphibious vehicle in the world and discovered that amphibious vehicles are much more popular in Europe. And, to his astonishment, he realized that of all the vehicles ever built, no one had successfully built a true high performance amphibious vehicle.
That's when it hit him- why not combine his love of high performance cars and boats into a single, high performance amphibious car? "Everything he needed was right here in Southern California". The best hydraulics are available from the low-rider crowd and the rear-engine drive technology from the high performance sand-rail market. Every drive train combination you could imagine is available for inspection at Glamis. The brakes, suspension and speed accessories come from the hot rod aftermarket industry which is booming in Southern California. The most important part, hull and jet configuration, from the performance- boat industry along with unlimited input from great boat people that are very willing to help. He started thinking he could build a high performance amphibious car from off the shelf parts.
March wanted to build a four-seater, yet still keep the car sporty looking. The 2002 Camaro was the ideal starting point. He purchased a Camaro fiberglass funny-car shell body, added hundreds of labor hours and he had a great looking Camaro car/boat plug. He built the molds from the plug and proceeded to build the first parts.
March built a lightweight stainless frame to mount the suspension and motor to and fit it to the body. The challenge was to make the wheels retractable. He attended a couple of low-rider shows to figure how to make the wheels retractable and settled on using parts from Homies Hydraulics. The motor and jet combo was another significant challenge, particularly getting it all to fit in the trunk area. March wanted the WaterCar to look as much like a stock Camaro as possible.
The first time on the water, the vehicle performed beautifully, with only one significant problem: "It wouldn't plane out!" He made multiple trial trips back and forth to the lake, adding more boost for additional power and tinkering on the jet setup. After some additional work on the bottom, he was finally getting on plane easily and reaching 45 mph. Success at last!
The newest version of March's handiwork drives just like a car on the road and actually handles very well with the Corvette suspension. "It has plenty of power from the Subaru 2.5 Turbo WRX motor. When you go in the water, you simply drive in, put the transmission in neutral, engage the jet, fl
125 really isn't all that fast, and I hope they didn't change out the engine just to achieve more power. If they made it an all wheel drive vehicle with proper balance between the wheels (and less excessive weight on the front from the removal of the GM 350ci V8), then that's good. The boat thing is just becoming passé. While it requires some engineering, a low center of gravity with proper sealing and flotation will allow anything to become a boat.
My '78 Chrysler Cordoba could do 125...
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Pictures of Watercar and Aquada. http://www.jetski.com/article.cfm?id=433
:)
Nice to see that the watercar is 150K while the other Aquada is 235K.
Now lets see something a slashdot reader can afford.
Popup crap? Firefox to the rescue.
Is a scanning red light on the front, and they'd have Knight Boat!
As long as there's always a canal, that is.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
and come up with something truly unique and cool: a car ... that doubles as a boat
Maybe cool, but not unique! There was a story about a sportcar/speedboat that came up a while back. True, it can only go 100mph on land and 30mph in the water, but I'd say it's close enough to say it's not unique.
Oh yeah, and this site called Slash- something or other posted about the the same vehicle.
(note: not that I'm upset with the content of this news item, I think it's even cooler to have modded a car to do this than to create one from scratch -- I just have a problem with hype like saying something is new and unique when it's not)
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
A post about a car that isn't turned into a robot, Star Wars ship, or anime something or other!
...geez, did it really *have* to be a Camaro?
I mean come on, that's like spending tens of thousands on a high end stereo and on room acoustics, then playing the Beastie Boys.
It has a Camaro body, but has several other major non-Camaro systems.
Are you still required to wear the typical Camaro drivers mullet, or can you avoid it because it isn't pure Camaro?
Except that the WRX is a flat-4 which makes it much more shallow, that could help in getting it out of the way of the water, or more room to fold up the wheels. Not to mention being lighter than the LS motors.
My sig is blank, I typed this by hand.
Now we know how Rod got his ride, his parents really did drive to the Bahamas
Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
As opposed to those people who build Lego models of the Deathstar, or memorize Pi to 15,000 digits.
Say what you want about the guy, I bet he has no problem picking up chicks.
I am NOT a man!
I am a free number!
Car Boat crosses are neither original or good. They fail as cars and as boats.
They generally have VERY poor on water performance especially considering for the price of building one of these monstrosities you could have a sports car and a sport boat. Considering the engine on that thing, the boat performance aspect of it is awful it's not even close to being fast for a water craft and it's not even the worlds fastest car boat cross either, not even close, try 80mph but I digress he gave it a good shot.
Car boat crosses then to be very unsafe on land at higher speeds because the hull shape forces air down and builds a bow wave of air making the front end unstable causing at least poor searing response and at worst roll overs and swerving.
This is just a waste of a good car and some boat parts and a whole lot of time. Considering no one's time is free even the cheapest moron with a car could buy a crappy boat working at McDonald's in less time and then he'll have a boat and a car and people won't laugh at him on and off water.
Just FYI my Sea-Doo does over 40mph on water and seats 3 instead of two.
A flat-4 scooby engine could probably sit higher in the engine compartment, making the water issue less of a problem. It's also very light, and would leave more room for the wheels being pulled up while it's in the water.
My sig is blank, I typed this by hand.
Or is he linked from the 419 flash mob pages? (slashdot yro item today)
-- All your bass are below two Hz
One word:
Displacement
I'd imagine they needed space for Waterproofing, or foam, or maybe just needed to cut the weight down.
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living."
- Seneca
I've seen these every once in a while on the discovery or learning channel. Cars that are also boats. Okay, so this one might be a little faster and cooler looking, but the bottom line is they don't sell because there's no market.
But cool nonetheless.
Popular mechanics a few months back. Old news.
What the heck is a 'sig'?
there is no replacement for displacement, douche!
You should read a few posts up, there's a karma whore reposting the article.
At any rate the Subaru engine was chosen for power and size. It was the best solution for a midengined car boat. You have a 2.5 liter turbocharged flat 4 which gives you a smaller engine, a lower center of gravity, and some good ol' Japanese reliability. Also consider the weight savings over a V8.
BTW if you're comparing per liter output, the v8 sucks in this case.
True, though the best "upgrade" of all would have been to leave the engine in the Scooby body, and build the drivetrain around Subaru's AWD system. The Scooby's suspension and drivetrain are worlds better than anything ever made by GM, including the Corvette. Just thinking about that beautiful engine in an ugly, antiquated piece of GM crap brings a tear to my eye.... Gonna have to go drive my 99 Scooby now just to make myself feel better.
\/\/oobie
I hate Java, what the Hell. :(
This dude totally put the wrong body on his car. Although I can't find out why he chose a Camaro because his site is down, he missed out on even more high-fives and conversation snippets like these:
"OH MY GOD! A FLOATING DELOREAN!"
"I haven't seen a floating delorean since 2004."
"The way I see it, if you're gonna build flotation into a car, why not do it with some style?"
Just in case the server crashes and burns (like they usually do),I have put up a mirror.o m/meetbuilder.html o m/ o m/photo.html
The mirror of http://www.watercar.com/meetbuilder.html is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_215/www.watercar.c
The mirror of http://www.watercar.com/ is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_215/www.watercar.c
The mirror of http://www.watercar.com/photo.html is at http://mirrorit.demonmoo.com/r_215/www.watercar.c
Do we not yet realize that all slashdotters do is look at pictures and google doesn't tend to cache those?
W/o seeing the article, I can understand why they are using the subaru engine. They have been used in kit planes for years.
As such Google tells me that 45 mph = 39.1039309 knots.
Pretty decent speed, that....
Important info:
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
http://dieoff.org/synopsis.htm
http://www.peakoil.net
Buncha morons posting trashtalk here... Lets see how many idiotic comments don't make any sense.
1. Camaro has 4 seats, not 2, and this boatcar also has 4 seats.
2. The subaru engine has plenty of power to push a car like this to over 125 mph. The basic camaro RS has less power than that subaru engine and can take a camaro RS to around 135 mph.
3. It uses a jetdrive, not a prop
4. It isn't a converted camaro, rather it's a custom design that looks like a camaro and actually uses many suspension parts from a corvette.
5. If you read the material, you see that the smooth underbody for water use is achieved through moving panels. In land mode, the panels are retracted. This likely disrupts airflow under the body and reduces lift.
6. Unless you're an aerodynamic engineer, STFU about what the boat hull shape will do to the aerodynamics of the vehicle. The original pre-1998 camaro was shaped like a wing and would flip over at speeds over around 180. This thing is sculpted in a rather different fashion and speculation on it's aerodynamic behavior without knowing the cross sectional shape or doing wind tunnel testing is just that - uninformed speculation.
Pitiful negative morons bagging on the article without even looking at the website... How about a big cupful of STFU.
And 125mph is nothing. I take it up to 155mph (Where the speedo cuts off) at least once a week. I'd hate to have my 5.7l V8 gutted for a 4-banger. Thats blasphemy..
-Imidazole2
I love it when people do 1xx MPH in their stock focus/caviliar/civic... come on people just cause the stock engine can do it doesn't mean the stock TIRES can. That's right people, nobody ever thinks of the TIRES. Would someone please think OF THE TIRES!!?
Yeah, and i smoke STi WRXs all the time in my 305 (L03) powered 1990 Chevy Caprice.
I am forced to conclude you are the master of the obvious. May others take heed of your wisdom.
I was driving home from work one day during a flash flood. The bridge that I needed to take was closed because some jackass in a semi truck recked in the storm. I had to drive through a lower elevation and the water was so deep that it got sucked into my air cleaner. In fact it was only an inch or two below my window. My car stalled because of the water in the air filter.
Pushing a Camaro out of 2.5 feet deep flowing water REALLY sucks.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Did anyone else immediately think "SpyHunter" while reading the subject header and storyblurb? A few machine gun head-lights and surface-to-air missles, and this guy will be in the same league as the guys using GPS for their real-life Pac-Man game.
The PC Weenies: 11 Years of Online Tech 'Too
Considering that the LS1 engine that came stock on the Z-28 and SS modes pumps 305-320 (and thats underrated, the same engine powers Corvettes, and Chevy understated the output so it wouldn't cut into Corvette sales). Popping a turboed WRX engine in there is hardly an "upgrade."
Considering that he started with a Camaro funny car shell and nothing even CLOSELY resembling a complete Camaro, popping a turboed WRX engine (which is actually redundant because both the WRX and STi versions of the motor are turbocharged from the factory) is an incredible upgrade.
"This is Zombo Com, and welcome to you who have come to Zombo Com" - www.zombo.com
...before it hits the chip that cuts the engine. The engine is working, sure, but without the chip I'm sure it could do a lot faster than that. (The engine is at only about 20,000 RPM... I forget what it red lines at, and I'm in a different country at the moment.) I'm sure it could beat 125 MPH without any trouble.
It's only a 3.8L. The V8 can spank it.
I saw this at the Los Angeles boat show a few months ago, it's pretty neat. I talked to the guy, and the only problem is it's extremely hard to get legalized in most states (especially California). It also costs something like $125,000.
-tom
In Soviet Russia the insensitive clod is YOU!
She looks like she's had a good mod job done as well, and fits in with the car nicely!
I've got almost a complete mirror here:
http://slushdot.org/mirror/watercar/.
I'm still working on the videos and full images.
...Russia, they have built stuff like this And that wasn't the fastest one either. To make the long story short, if you want to be fast and amphibious, WIG all the way!
Does auto insurance cover accidents on the water?
go look at what the latest one liter sportbikes are putting out. the zx-10r is 158bhp, iirc. that's NA, btw, no turbo needed! then there's the 1.3l busas. i've forgotten what their hp is.
Except that the WRX is a flat-4 which makes it much more shallow, that could help in getting it out of the way of the water, or more room to fold up the wheels. Not to mention being lighter than the LS motors.
Can you provide a link on that? (not the flat 4, the wieght) My understanding is that the LS1 is a VERY light engine for its displacement , and the comparison should really be between an LS1 and a subaru flat 4 WITH turbo and intercooler.
You might be right, or you might be wrong, but I bet it's a lot closer than you thought.
Life is too short to proofread.
Nope - it would actually be KIFT - the Knight Industries Four Thousand - the revamped edition of KITT featured in the ultra short-lived series Knight Rider 2000.
Although, KITT did have the ability to drive on water in one episode of the original series.
(ripped from somewhere else)
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Except boatloads of boost.
Honda S2000 engine. 120hp per litre N/A. Subaru makes damn nice cars, but they can't match Honda's hp/litre. 240hp out of a 2L engine. Anyone can respect that.
Tim Smith - Ramblings from Nerd Land
Yeah but the torque to horsepower ratio sucks on sportbikes, and the rpms are way too high. You have to rev the shit out of them to get anything worthwhile. Granted, they are impressive little engines, but not for cars or carboats. The Subaru engine has plenty of torque (which is necessary for a 4wd car anyway).
While it would be nice if the eds checked the Last-Modified header, I still found this story to be interesting (well, the mirror anyway). I personally had not seen this before, and enjoyed the "article". Not everyone has been to every site you have.
You forgot to mention naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engine in the s2000.
Honda's design philosophy has been, since day one, 'rev up for power'. This all hearkens back to when Mr. Honda himself first attended an F1 race as a child. We all know how small F1 engines are, how high they rev, and how little torque they have. Then again, an open wheel racer weighing a little over 1500lbs with driver and engine doesn't require alot of torque. Look at all of Honda's 4 cylinder engine designs, they all follow the original philosophy.
Granted, he did a little more than strap some 55 gallon drums on the side as pontoons. But time is a luxury when you're fleeing from the clutches of a ruthless dictator.
Open Source Java DAO Generator
N/A is shorthand for Naturally Aspirated.
moox. for a new generation.
I had a Camaro in the 70s, and compared to today's cars it was a total piece of garbage. It had dangerous handling, it broke down constantly, it was shoddily constructed, and chunks were falling off of it when it was only 8 years old.
Maybe a few cars from back then claimed more horsepower than what you can get today. (I kind of doubt it with cars like the Dodge Viper on the market). Keep in mind that horsepower numbers were inflated back then, and the drivetrains and suspensions were not capable of utilizing the horsepower that they had.
If you read any car magazine, there are plenty of aftermarket shops that do modify today's cars, and they manage to keep them legal as well.
STi engine has 2.5 liters of displacement vs the 2.0 liters of the WRX.
... cause we all know the world's one, big straight, clean road! Especially in winter.. oh yea baby!
So you're comparing a suped-up Camaro SS with a stock WRX?! Stock 2001 Camaro SS does 0-60 in 5.5. Stock NON-STi WRX does it in 5.4. Stock STi does it in 4.3. And if you're somewhere other than long, flat roads where you don't have to steer, bring on the knuckle-draggers any day--suped up or not.
Ha ha.. don't make me laugh.
If you really want to talk about suping up, let's talk about a replacement turbocharger for the WRX.. and then let's compare engine reliability and performance of these two, much more "evenly" matched 0-60, beastly machines, mmkay?
Yeah, and if it doesn't run linux or have an iPod built in it has no place here!
:-)
Please keep the novelty car-mod stories on topic
The 1960-era(!) Belgian children TV-show "Kapitein Zeppos" ("Captain Zeppos") featured an amphibious car. The Belgian government-sponsored TV station "VRT" has made a description of the series (in Dutch), which includes a picture of the car.
Obviously, it didn't go as fast as the camaro, and, according to the site, "turning it was a bad idea, while at the least movement of the water, the car would heavily move from left to right".
What if it starts raining really hard and you hit a puddle, does the car become confused and turn into a boat, making your new destination that tree over there?
-- "of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong." --Dennis Miller
While I am willing to accept that this guy does indeed own this car, I can almost guarantee you that the girl riding with him in the pictures is a rental.
Erm... I don't know about other cars but at least when buying an Alfa Romeo you get tires rated somewhere to the 2xx KPH speeds. Now, the argument for stock tires must be that since it's illegal to drive faster than 120 KPH anywhere in this country you probably won't be needing tires rated over that. Logical, huh?
This situation may - or, indeed, may not - be different in Germany, where you are allowed to drive as fast as you like on them big roads (Highways? Motorways? something like that anyway)
Someone mentioned insurances. Must be hell on the insurance company. Then again, they'd probably just rip the price of both car and boat insurance as it's likely anyone who has the $$$ to buy one of these won't complain.
Now if they only made a flying car and I won the lottery...
Sigs for Nerds. Sigs that Matter.
Since the likelihood of my being able to afford a Camero anytime soon is about the same as the chance that Chitty Chitty Bang Bang was a true story, I figure the above is a reasonable comparison.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I'm sure if I drove my car at 125MPH into the water it, at some point, would be going 40MPH in the water.
Heh, that's pretty funny.
But I'm not being a karma-whore. Look at the subject:
I dont care about the car
The grandparent didn't care about the car and so i was responding to him. To be entirely ethical I probably shouldn't have replied to the grandparent, but I was in a hurry.
Also, is there a place where I can consult these canonical rules of karma-whoredom you speak of? Feel free to reply with a link.
Thanks.
I once played with the idea of having a WRX, but everytime i was on a track somewhere, 50% of the WRX had broken transmission or turbo. I know someone installed rally gears, but I wouldn't be able to stand the whining. So I wondered if they have been made more robust?
You obviously know nothing about Subaru's and IHI turbos. Subaru tried a twin turbo setup on the JDM Legacy STi and it did not work well, but that's besides the point. There are probably mainly throttle response and logistical reasons why the USDM STi uses the VF39. The STi doesn't have water injection. No production car has water injection. Some have water spray on their IC's. no one is blowing the 6-speeds on the STi. In fact, I haven't heard of anyone EVER sheering the gears off of ANY STi 6-speed whether imported from the JDM V7 or factory or otherwise. Jeff Sponaugle is running currently 500hp with a FP Green turbo and the 6-speed with no problem and he just became the first pump gas street trim WRX to run 11's a few days ago. What the hell with alcohol injection? how has the stock engine been "hardened" for alcohol injection. Explain to me with some engineering formulas why you believe so.
Alcohol (or even water injection) may have been useful, but I can see why they didn't use n2o.
n2o can really only be used in short bursts and is really only useful in drag racing. I'll bet that they don't plan on drag racing this beast, so basically the n2o setup will only weigh more and take up extra space for a fairly unneeded HP gain.
"However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation."
Rover (or one of the companies that are now Rover) did an amphibious vehicle in the late 60-es. Featured here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345 236203/104-7631974-3723944?v=glance
There was something I personally find more interesting, rewarding and easier to implement. The russians used to make a fairly decent amphibious trailer/mobile home. Forgot the name, but it was quite cool. 12 knots, capable of running in most general freshwater conditions (30 cm max wave) + the general comfort you get from a camping trailer.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
I bet it hurts being stomped in the twisties by a car with a live rear axle, doesn't it rice boy?
Care to put your money where your mouth is?
Didn't think so. Didn't even have the guts to not hide behind AC.
Some people are like slinkies--basically useless but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
Or better yet, a car+helicoptor.
:(
Unfortunatly, the moment you try to deviate from the "standard" designs of airplanes or helicoptors even slightly, the FAA and other aviation authorities dont wanna touch it
Even if you needed a pilots licence to use one, I think a "flying car" would be very popular with rich people (the kind who currently use executive helicoptors combined with chauffer pilots).
Ever watch Monster Garage? One time they took one of those Volkswagon bugs and made it into a car that could float in a swamp. There was a big propeller inside and all kinds of other crazy stuff. I think it would be bitchin to build something like that in a cooler car.
ITs a fscking sales pitch! that entrepeneur is laughing all the way to the bank.
SURELY NOT!!!!!
...before the chip cuts the engine.
And that was an V6 - I'm sure the V8 could do a lot better than that. So yeah, when I read 125, it was a bit of an anti-climax for me too...
And people look at me weird when I tell them that I refuse to put tires on my car that aren't at least V rated... even though they generally run me $125+ a pop depending on what I get. That started after one blow out (thankfully as I was already slowing down to a stop).
not that I knows anything about these things, but I'd imagine the engine from the Subaru is significantly lighter than the original camaro engine. Probably kinda important when your building a boat
The Romans didn't find algebra very challenging, because X was always 10
I remember seeing this on TV quite a few months ago and showing a co-worker it and she was simply amazed at it. Frankly so was I, I thought it was a much better car than that otherone available for sale. Anyway, to summarize, it really it quite old.
Even if the weights are similar (I don't have any documentation to check), I bet size is a more important factor. And thats where the Subaru engine wins.
The Subaru H4 engine is literally half the height of any v engine, plus is gotta have close to half the depth. The engines are wider, but not so much as to become more impractical then a v8.
I remember seeing a really cool diagram showing the size differences between the flat 4, inline 4 and v6. I'm trying to google it, but with no results.
"However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation."
Odd that none of the videos on the site show transitions. The shot of the car driving into the water fades into a full speed shot, and the video of the car driving out never shows it with panels down...
-- this sig beneath your current threshold
there is no replacement for displacement, douche!
Forced induction baby!
These aren't your grandfather's turbo-charged cars. Or even your father's.
Some people are like slinkies--basically useless but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
I know you're just trolling... but dude, seriously. A Subaru WRX would totally demolish ANY V8/RWD musclecar you put up with it in a mountain road.
Please realize that I'm a huge Subaru fan when I say this...
Um, no. A good V8/RWD musclecar driver has a good chance of beating a good AWD driver on twisties. The only time AWD has the advantage is off of paved roads or when the RWD driver doesn't know his car.
Now, if we took noob RWD driver versus a noob AWD driver, then the AWD driver would most certainly win, as the RWD driver would oversteer himself off the road.
"However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation."
rd
They actually didn't start with any camaro, but with a camaro-ish funny car shell.
There are many advantages of the Subaru engine here. Half the size and weight with only slightly less horsepower is perhaps the best reason.
"However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation."
As they say, the Camaro SS is for going fast, the STi is for driving fast :)
pax,
fred
Check out the floatation devices on the owner's girlfriend :p
WaterCar Specifications
The WaterCar is a fiberglass amphibious vehicle styled after the 2002 Convertible Camaro body style. It is powered by a Turbo charged 2.5 Liter 300 HP Subaru engine. The transmission is a Rancho Type I-4 speed manual transmission. The four wheel independent suspension and brakes are late model C-4 Corvette with stainless steel rotors.
The WaterCar can reach speeds in excess of 125 MPH on land and the drivability with the Corvette suspension is outstanding. Once the WaterCars is driven into the water all four wheels are hydraulically retracted with the flip of a switch. The bottom covers that enclose the wheel well are also hydraulically extended to create a smooth high speed bottom which allows the WaterCar to easily hit speeds of 40 MPH on the water. The Marine Drive is a Berkeley 12JE Jet Drive with a place diverter to control the ride depending on water conditions. The WaterCar has four usable seats and the doors are fully functional. The aircraft style lock assembly assures the doors are completely water tight for water operation. The WaterCar has a removable center mount ski pole which makes it ideal for wake boarding or skiing.
This sporty four-seater makes it possible to drive to the lake, experience an exhilarating boat ride and drive back home again without ever leaving your car!
These cars have been around for awhile, back in the 60's they were called 'Amphicars'.
Didja happen to notice that this is a rear-engine configuration? They aren't using the Camaro engine bay for anything but suitcases. :)
Heh ... ever try to put anything in the trunk of a camaro? Good job getting the engine in there.
It's not my fault! It was this way when I got here.
The recent program converted a classic rare (the heresy!) Lotus into a hovercraft!
Channel4 TV recently started a series, loosely like "ScrapHeap Challenge" (equivalent to the USA's "Junkyard Wars"), where a team of people have to convert one vehicle into another. Unlike the junkyard/scrapheap, they have money to spend!
I'd love to enter one of these TV programmes, but it seems to me that the key members of the team need to have metal-working skills, welding being the main one! I could do the electrics, but my software skills would probably be wasted :-(
So there's a Trans-Camaro out there that isn't sitting on cinder blocks? And the body panels aren't a mix of primer red and primer gray?
That is truely a Bitchin' Camaro.
The engine is behind the rear wheels, not in front of them. That makes it a rear-engine, like the old VW beetle and Porsche 911s.
Politas
Once again, just plug all those factors into google, and let it take care of it!
And on the weight issue...
The Camaro/Firebird V8 has been an aluminum-block since '98 (possibly '97, but definitely since '98). The LS1 was introduced in the Corvette, then the F-bodies picked it up. My wife's car is a '00; I've driven raucous high-horsepower cars, but this one is very smooth in normal driving. You'd never know it has 305-HP, and even more torque. Later years, and the SS versions, pumped out even more power stock.
If you had the room for the install, the torquey V8 could use a lower cruising RPM, hopefully a longer life than the turbo-4.
so? they're geared for it. i bet 3-6krpm, a busa will pull harder than 90% of the cars out there. and after that, hold on for your life! and try a liter twin, if you want power down low. keep in mind few cars can keep up with even a 600. to make a car keep up with a one liter i4 sportbike, you'll have to spend at least 10 times more on the car (i'm not exagerating).
you don't feel torque, btw. when most people say "torque" (like on those stupid vw commerials) they really mean low end power. in low gears, the t
Hopefully the Dead Milkmen will get workin' on
FISHIN' CAMARO!
this comment dedicated to Dave Blood, RIP
If this is Heaven I'm bailin out! I cant tolerate this ol tin-tub, so fulla trash and rats...
First, a Camaro does not have an LS1 engine, it has an LT1 engine. The LS1 is a Corvette engine.
Second, a fully built aluminum LS1 weighs almost 500 pounds. That's not surprising, since it's a 5.6 liter engine.
Third, as the LT1 block is cast iron, not aluminum, there's no way in hell it's lighter.
Last, if you want to talk insane engines, all conversations must start, and end, with the S2000 VTEC engine. Naturally Aspirated, 2 liters, 250 horsepower. Compare that to the Base WRX's 2 liter, intercooled, turbocharged engine, which puts out a very respectable 246 horsepower.
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living."
- Seneca
Cool Amphicar site here A jeweler on Lake Minnetonka in Wayzata, Minnesota owns one of the Amphicars and drives it in parades and on the water during summer weekends.
I like the Gibbs Aquada too. As posted above, more expensive. But you have to like those retracting wheels.
Have you Meta Moderated t
You're right, in alot of ways it isn't. But he used a funny car body, so he didn't really have a camaro motor to start with, plus we wanted to go rear motor since it's a custom frame thingy that turns into a boat. Thats where the box-4 motor comes in. But if he does have a spare LT1/LS1 around, I'll take it off his hands for him.
Here's a picture from a google image search. It's a convertible, cool! http://www.amphibiousvehicle.net/amphi/W/watercars pecial/watercar-a.jpeg
Wild crazy story - and then there was a poster early on who mirrored the site - which by the way still won't load... I'm not about to change my Camaro into a freakin water car..but if anyone has any links to how I can add a do-it-yourself hyperdrive, I'd very interested.
Ummm...dude, that is because the power to weight ratio is so off. Sure, if we put the engine in an open frame, open cockpit, no roof, doors, 1 seat, 4 tires, no floor, no radio, no AC, no heat, no vents, no windows, direct header exhaust, no interior, etc. (like a motocycle) the car would be smoking fast and would easily keep up with the sports bike. Hell, people gutted an old Honda Civic and made 9's on it on the 1/4 mile. Considering the STi makes stock 11's if you drop 1500 pounds, you would see huge improvements.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
You'll find that the STI and SS are comparable in performance except top end because the STI stops ~130mph where the SS stops at 160mph.
You must be talking about the WRX - the STi goes up to about 145-150. Some of the 2004s are rumoured to have a speed limiter at about 145, but not all.
The SS also had two suspension upgrades (stock), the top upgrade provides a lateral 1g in the skidpad.
I think my car (MR2) does about that standard. With its suspension upgrade and some tuning, it can hit about 1.4.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
At what, 9000 RPM?
Most twin turbos are able to add less power than a large single turbo. Most twin turbos are in place to reduce turbo lag (smaller impeller means less mass and a lower spool-up time). This is especially true for sequential turbos, but also tends to apply (although not always) to a "per bank" twin turbo system (such as on other boxer cars, like the Porsche 911 twin turbos). For example, many Supra Turbo tuners will rip out the twin turbo system, and drop in a large single turbo, rebuild their motors, and will end up with 700-1000 HP at the crank. I've also heard of Porsche 993TT owners doing the same thing. That extra 70-150 HP figure is just wrong -- that same figure can be accomplished by other means. Clearly, you're a STi affectionado -- I'm sure that you know more about this car than I do. However, unless there's something special about this motor that breaks all the rules of the conventional internal combustion engine, I seriously disagree with your assessment.
There is no reason why a twin turbo system will provide more power to this car. If you want more power, change the fuel mapping, drop in some new injectors and increase the boost pressure. I'm guessing that a primary reason to drop that American iron was to lighten up the front end. Turbos tend to add weight. Think of how much weight an additional turbo and associated plumbing will add. Soon, you'll get to a point of diminishing returns (in engine weight) where your STi motor weighs close to the Camaro motor. Given equal weight, I'd take the American iron -- it's torquier and doesn't lag like a turbo...and are generally far, far cheaper.
*Sigh* Is he drag racing this thing? Why would he ever want to do that? These are both things that are only really useful in (lame) street races and in drag races. I'm not sure, but I don't think that's what he built this car for.
-Turkey
Even if he'd had the GM block to throw in there, there are many, many compelling reasons to go with the WRX engine...most notably it's weight, reliability, and ability to be very well tuned.
Also, for those posting about Subaru engine power: 227 for the stock WRX, 300 for the WRX STi powerplant.
-psy
Er...make that the rear end.
-Turkey
LS1 Engine Specs.
Block Cast aluminum, 107.1 lbs (48.6 kg).
Total Dressed Engine Weight Auto. - 457.6 lbs. (208 kg); Manual - 497.2 lbs (226 kg).
Happy?
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living."
- Seneca
Not a new show. Just a new show to your side of the pond. =P
... disturbing. =P
Monster Garage has been on the Discovery Channel for a few years here in the States.
And I have no idea who this "Cookie" guy is, but he's no Jesse James.
And if you think Monster Garage is amusing... Monster House is
Dude, all Deloreans were floaters. :)
-Turkey
Aluminum block V8's are fairly light, as light as a small 4 or 6 cyl turbo iron block motor... something us classic 911 owners know very well. A common (frowned upon) swap is a small aluminum block V8 into a 911, and the engine weight is basically the same as compared to a very small displacement six.
Secondly, although I can't read the slashdotted site, I'd hazard a guess the engine swap was to be able to use a Subie transmission more than anything else... so you can drive the car with the front wheels and use the driveshaft going to the rear differential to drive it in the water.
Could be totally off-base, but thats how I'd do it, and would be why I'd consider that sort of a transplant in that case.
People have started putting those Subaru engines in 911's, too... they fit very nicely and have lots of very reliable power.
and this slashdot article isnt really even that interesting...something like this would be better
Yes... they took a 1998 VW beetle... dropped an engine in the back for a 'blower'.The thing didn't go very fast, and by the end of their test the thing was sinking hardcore.... at least they made it back to shore.
I'm guessing this is limited due to the 4 speed Tranny more than body/weight/horsepower.
$ man woman *
-bash:
A twin turbo setup is always not as efficient as a single big turbo.
Usually people use twin turbos to decrease turbo lag by using one small and one bigger turbo. The smaller turbo spools up quickly to get things moving, then the larger turbo kicks in.
But in terms of pure power, twin turbo does not make as much sense as a single bigger one. More parts, more maintenance, more complexity, more prone to failure.
But I saw it on the news here in Detroit, The pictures don't do it justice to the action footage. If you've got about 150K to blow, why not?
Use your head, can't you, use your head,
You're on earth, there's no cure for that - S. Beckett
Are you sure it isn't this one:
Of all of the words of tongue or pen,
the saddest are these: "it might have been."
The flywheel used on manual transmission engines is heavier than the flexplate used on automatics. A flywheel and a flexplate look a lot alike in basic shape except a flexplate tends to be much thinner since automatic cars have the torque converter to act as rotating mass.
Yeah I'd take a RV-Sub, I'd use it as my underwater lair
I know several people with GM F body cars those back seats are a joke and you know it, no grown adult can sit with 4" of rear leg room, don't go running to the spec sheets because they move the seats for mesuring and if you're getting the full 10" in the back it's because the front seat is all the way forward.
Me no spellming. My culleg want banckrupt 1/2 wey thro tha two-nd symestire -- Actually it really did, which is a kick in the ass cause the student body wanted to sue.
I guess you missed the internet primer class about sarcasm.
I am forced to conclude you are the master of the obvious. May others take heed of your wisdom.
A philosophy which produces a car with extremely poor performance in real-world driving conditions.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
The poster I replied to was talking about stuffing a supercharger into his Cam SS to pull it down into the 3's, and then comparing this with a stock WRX. That's what you call apples to apples?
If you think those kind of options are stock, let's talk more about the STi.
Still, there is no comparison. That's precisely what my point was. There is no comparison to make. The SS shouldn't even bother on a winter track, and the WRX shouldn't even bother on the drag strip. Seems simple enough to me.
I'd still be happy to race you on a mountain, winter, and/or gravel course in my stock WRX. *shrug* It'd be no contest, and I think we both know that.
I've personally seen STi timesheets w/ 4.3, 4.4, and 4.5. Course, that's tearing out the rear seats, everything in the trunk, the passenger seat, etc.. still, that's quite a difference for only a hundred pounds or so. Without that he pulls in 4.6 - 4.7--still a good deal better than the 4.88 quoted literature.
Anyway the stock 2001 Camaro SS does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds. That's stock. So you have a 4.6 0-60, a top speed of 160mph and you only get a 13.0 1/4 mile? Yikes. Long gears, dude.
Anyway, if you want to talk suspension upgrades to get your 1G skid, I'll pull out APS or Vishnu and wave bye-bye to you with my taillights.
(BTW: I have a chevy smallblock at home, so.. calm down.)
Uhh.. no.. stock WRX does 5.4, so *that* would be neck and neck with a stock SS right off the line. The stock STi would be blasting it. :)
Wouldn't Google and this sort of rather extraordinary database be a great combination? The parent to this post is pretty incredible, when you get down to it.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
It LOOKS like one, but from the images, it was created in fiberglass.. so its not really a chevy thats been converted...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I agree with your assessment that the s2000 is lackluster when placed side by side with other cars in its price range. However, the chassis and driving dynamics are hard to fault.
Who races on mountain roads? WRX = Rally Car... Camaro = Drag Racer/Formula 1/Nice flat strips. Camaros live on drag strips. Nice and flat.