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SBC CWA Strike Imminent
Tmack writes "SBC union workers are preparing (again) to strike after negotiations have broken down between CWA and SBC. What this means to the average person? As long as the strike is taking place, orders for new service and repair of existing services with SBC will be delayed as only non-union workers and temps will be around to complete the work. Latest word is the strike is now planned for Friday night through next Tuesday. Check here(1),
here(2), and here(3)
for more info."
Gotta love those long weekends :)
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -RAH
I can't be the only person here who has no idea what this is about...
But you'll still be able to get bad outsourced tech support from India & Convergsys.
Freedom is merely privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all.
"We're sorry, the number you have reached has been disconnected or is no longer in service. You can try calling for help but everyone is on strike, thanks."
Does this mean I can stop paying my bill 'cause no one will be there to shut my service off?
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Things would be much worse off if it weren't for organized labor.
IANA Economics Major
looks like one of the major bargaining issues is outsourcing. This is from an interview w/ one of the union members "We recently made 10 test calls to DSL technical support. One went to Florida, one went to Texas and eight went to India," Rosen said. "We would rather see these jobs go to people in Indianapolis than people in India.". Kinda sucks for them.
A little clue anyone? Please?
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Isn't this a little localized of a topic to be posted on Slashdot? I mean we have strikes here in New York all the time and I don't see it making the front page. I mean even if it affects 13 states that is not that much in the grand scale of things. Con-Ed goes on strike and it might only affect one state but that includes around 8-10 million people.
Someone could at least explain if this will have an effect on us.
Amazing how their practices are fully legalized. If I were to tell a company:
"Joe won't be coming in to work and you can't fire him nor can you hire a temporary replacement for him. If you want Joe to work again, you must cough up some money."
I'd be arrested and charged with extortion. It has always baffled me that this kind of behavior is actually legally sanctioned.
WTF is CWA & SBC???
Thats why everything that a union member touches costs 10x more! Want to move your desk? gotta call a union guy. wanna turn a screw? gotta call a union guy.
Evidently it will.
Hey, get this. SBC is already offering $45/hour for on-call scab workers. I just got a call from my recruiter! If this strike goes the distance, I could take be making $9K/month setting up LANs. Unreal.
C - can't W - walk A - afraid They didn't do it at Verizon and they won't do it with SBC. The union doesn't have the strike fund available.
SBC - Sith Birth Control?
My company may send me down there to fill in on the critical stuff if they don't reach an agreement. I hope to hell that they do cuz i would bet the picketers are packin... :P
2) exacly why is this news? just because it's in the US? (not sure, just assuming).
People do live outside the US, you know.
They're flying you in from India eh?
Your TLAs are DOA, why R U not bothering 2 explain WTF U R talking about?
IOW, who/what are SBC and CWA?
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
I heard my dad make some mention of this a few days ago. Of course, this doesn't surprise me. My father spoke of SBC cutting retirement benefits in the future just to get people to retire early before the lower benefits took place.
He also spoke of his animosity towards SBC because of their push for Technicians to get more jobs completed in less time. Thus, you get people doing a job and meeting the most basic requirements to complete the job, so they end up closing out the job quickly.
My dad has a wall of Customer Service awards, but his managers would always complain about his inability to close jobs out quickly. My dad always told them he'd much rather take his time and make sure the customer is happy than do a barely-done job with a disgruntled customer.
Oh well, it doesn't matter now. The older generation of Technicians who actually care about the customer are retiring while newer non-union/contractors fill the slots
Even my dad doesn't have SBC for his phones anymore, even with the retiree discount
and why do we care
"Latest word is the strike is now planned for Friday night through next Tuesday."
Workers' rights, my ass. They just want the long weekend. Come on down to Billy's Bear Barn where we're on strike every night! Tuesdays women strike for half price! Yee-haw!
Marge : Mmm Homey, you're the union leader. I'm so proud of you. ... mmm organized crime.
Lisa : Finally you get to share the fair share of the working force.
Homer : And make life-long contacts with organized crime.
I think they perfer the term SCABS.. sorry cant help but pick on em..
... only non-union people will be working, so getting things done will take *longer* ?
From the piece of the pie or we stick you dept. Thanks Timothy, we know where your sentiments lie, clearly in the camp of the ruling class, not the workers. I can't wait for all the 'unions ar teh suck!' posts.
Unions brought us child labor laws, eight hour days, overtime pay, the weekend, paid vacations, etc. You think the bosses just gave us all that? Hardly. People fought and died for those benefits and protections, and even if you aren't in a union, rest assured that unions and the threat of unions has made your job better.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Can't speak for SBC, but if this was Verizon in New York, my response would be "How could you tell?"
wheres the mod option for -1 "Stupid Tool"?
Historically, most, if not all, of the benefits that all employees are guaranteed by law were first instituted thanks to labor unions. Clearly, they have served their purpose in the past.
Now, you are right, there are unions that do more harm than good. They impose requirements to create meaningless jobs instead of letting companies become more efficient (and thereby creating new useful jobs or having more money for raises).
On the other hand, there are unions that are vital for protecting the employees. My wife is a teacher, and I've see how private non-unionized schools have taken advantage of her. Everything from expecting her to contribute financially to school fundraisers to attending a week-long out-of-state field trip (with no extra pay or provision in her contract). Of course, teachers are generally there because that's what they want to do, not for the money, which puts them in a prime position to be taken advantage of without a union to look out for their interests. (Of course, I have gripes with the political activities of teachers' unions, but that's another story.)
Perhaps it is more imminent today since Friday is that much more imminently closer....
/.'ers love duplicate stories, it's sure to make it this time.
No matter, just submit the same article tomorrow, it will be even more imminent and since
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
There are others but most people in san jose have sbc for their internet service provider if they use dsl. They also provide local phone service and my wireless (cell phone) as well.
Since they're a big monopoly people in other parts of the US are stuck with them too.
It seems according to the message on-air, SBC (SouthwesternBell Communications) has been commanding ever-growing profits at a non-stop rate for the past 10+ years if I recall correctly and yet SBC has been cutting employee benefits and threatening to lower salaries while top executives find more ways to increase their salaries and bonuses.
They [SBC] don't have the excuse of failing profit margins or losses. They are just greedy. If the shareholders out there would vote their minds, they'd probably change out those in control... but then again, they're probably one in the same.
Dear SBC Customer,
This announcement is to help you prepare for the real possibility that your DSL connection may fail and thus be out of service during the possible labor dispute.
We recommend that you review What Should I Do If The Internet Goes Down? and make the necessary preparations.
Sincerely,
Management
The day that I accepted the new job, I got a phone call from my old shop. The union went to management and strong-armed them into restoring a lot of jobs in income-producing areas, including mine. I could have my old position back provided that I came to work the next day. I immediately accepted my old position, and called the new shop to let them know what happened and that I would be returning to my old job.
Good thing I did, too. Within six months of my returning to my old job, the new shop circulated a petition amoung the workers to get rid of the union. As soon as the union was gone, they moved all the first-tier tech support positions to India.
Lesson learned. Unions mean job security. No unions mean you take your chances.
Finding God in a Dog
...announcing a strike at the same time Cingular and AT&T are announcing approval of a merger. The "cost" of the merger is tied to the value of the stock. The value of the stock drops, and Cingular loses. The union is blackmailing the company into settling fast and sweet by timing their announcement to knock the stock prices down at a critical time.
If SBC has the gonadal substructure, they'll reply with "Well, with all these AT&T people coming on board, we'll be way over staffed, and we'll have to start cutting some jobs..."
Hey, I'm against both sides. I just enjoy a good corporate bloodbath. Movies are getting too expensive, news is free.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
The Communications Workers of America (CWA) has issued a press release, Communications Workers Set Strike at SBC Involving 100,000 Workers at Midnight Tomorrow:
The CWA also offers a See-n-Say with CWA Game.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
I'm keeping my fingers crossed. My DSL is scheduled to be hooked up tomorrow. This is after being rescheduled twice already. If it doesn't get hooked up, I guess I'll just have to spend the weekend meditating while using "Patience is a Virtue" as a mantra.
I mean, honestly. Having no technicians to fix things will mean what exactly?
An anecdote from my personal experience with them...
SBC was supposed to install DSL at my home. The equipment for my end came and I hooked it up, waiting for the date service was supposed to start. The day comes and goes with no DSL. I call them the next day and spend several hours on the phone with a tech. Finally, he comes to the conclusion that I don't seem to have DSL service.
In fact, he can't even find record of the order, despite them having sent me equipment. We get off the phone, and I am called not once, but three times by different companies they apparently contract with to let me know that my DSL service is down.
Finally, they get their act together and fix the problem. Over the next three days I received four phone calls and two in-person visits letting me know that they fixed my DSL service.
Never mind how SBC used to call me at my old address trying to sell me DSL (which wasn't offered in my area at the time). We actually ordered it the first time, and it took them two months of hassles to get the to admit they don't offer it in our area and get a refund for the two months of service they charged us for.
So I ask, how would I be able to tell that there was a strike? Oh, my phone wouldn't ring off the hook with notifications of information I already know.
~Dan
not my best coffee!!! oh wait... wrong SBC. It'd be helpful if acronyms are only used after the names have been stated in full form for the hard of thinking.
Up the workers! Up the revolution! It's good to see that people still have the right to down tools and demand a better deal from their fat-cat bosses.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
This strike has to do with 'job security' you know, that thing that doesn't exist? These guys that are going to strike are bitching that
1) They are being outsourced by the next gen techno wonks (IP, VoIP, DSL, vs TDM DS0, etc)
2) SBC won't give them iron clad guarntees that they will have a job over the next 5 years, doing what they have been doing for the last 20...
3) Thier only legitimate bitch, I think, is that they arn't being offered a choice to train up to support the next gen stuff... That would be very cool, and we are doing that with the old telco guys at the CLEC I work at, they are all learning IP routing, Internet and VoIP at this very minute, so they won't be obsolete when everyone starts ordering SIP truncks instead or PRIs for their PBXs!
FYI, SBC = Southwestern Bell Company, the evil empire that purchased pac-bell and ameritech to control a very large portion of the local copper in the south and western United States.
This strike will affect not only Bell customers, but also all the CLECs that rely on reselling SBC infrastructure (like DSL, T1s, PRIs, etc)... Those orders will not be fullfilled, costing not only SBC money, but also all the CLECs and ISPs that rely on them. Which is why, IMHO, it is big deal.
The rest of us would like to know.
I would like to know if these union members are setting themselves in a position to be fired for not working. Are they laying their entire career/retirement benifits on the line for two business days? I don't really see what the union is achieving here?
Jeoin
Be thankful for unions.
What a crock, i have working in a union environment before, and never will again, I have too good of a work ethic and end up carrying my fellow "workers" because they want to sleep or have a beer or 20.
Unions should be banned.
We have seen that living things are too improbable and too beautifully "designed" to have come into existence by chance.
Well think of the breakup of AT&T into the baby-bells as that scene where they freeze the liquid-metal terminator and shatter him into pieces ...... after a while they melt and all start flowing back together to recreate the whole .... that's what SBC (and to some extent Verizon) are ....
After reading many of the comments, many seem to be at a loss for what CWA and SBC are, and why the post given front-page coverage. CWA=Communications Workers of America, SBC=Doesn't have an exact definition, was formally Southwestern Bell. The reason for the strike, if it happens, will be due to cuts in health benefits, passing more expense to the workers and on job security issues, one of many would be using less contractors for new equipment installations. As for reasoning it may have been considered front page coverage is two part, first would probably be that SBC is a primary provider of telephone and data lines for the two largest US states, TX and CA. Plus with the other states involved this could affect over 1/3 of the US population. Second might be that over 102,000 workers are threatening to strike, even though half of the strike would fall during the weekend, two days without that many workers will defiantly have ramifications for SBC.
Are you just stupid or have you not lived on this planet long?
SBC use to be SouthWesternBell, but CustomerSupport in India can't pronounce all that. So SBC is easier to say, but it sounds like SauseBazees when they say it now. They had to go to SBC because IBC was taken by the rootbeer company (IBC - IndiaBellComm).
CWA Communication Workers of AMERICA. Dah! It's that last part that SBC has an Issue with.
ACLU, AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION. There's another one you won't hear about much longer.
But that's what we get when the Republician are pushing all these freetrade agreements. The buttheads that put them in charge thought it meant to open up trade....no it means "free" as in they don't pay, we do. We pay with our jobs, quality, customer service. Soon they will have to outsource their customers because no one in American will have any money.
Remeber to send a message to WashingtonDC. Screw around with our jobs, and we will take away yours. Use absentee voting to insure your vote is counted. E-Voting is BS and will be rigged to the highest bidder.
Because they own the wire in the ground, they are what is called a "natural monopoly". As a natural monopoly, they are obligated to provide a certain level of service. This makes strike threats very serious for them. In the US today, the most powerful unions are the public sector ones (eg, National Federation of Teachers) and the unions for monopolies (eg CWA) or legalized cartels (eg, Teamsters, American Medical Association).
There was a long and important time when unions were a clear force for progess. Now they are more a force for conservatism.
Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
Go over your monthly transfer, and your are billed at a rate of 10 cents per megabyte.
This happened to me once. "those are 1997 prices!" you say. Well, yes, I was overpaying for the hosting, but they had always been rock solid and I had a critical application running there which i wasnt going to touch, so I continued to pay the 49.99/month.
But when they charged me $85 last month for 850 mb of overage, I pulled the plug. 10c/mb is highway robbery. i asked the woman whether she wanted the $85 or whether they wanted my $50/month for a hosting plan that costs 6.95 everywhere else. I am no longer an SBC customer.
No sympathy for SBC now. Go strikers go!
Just because you don't agree with me doesn't make it a troll. Post a response, defend your point of view.
I know, it's because I used the phrase 'ruling-class,' isn't it? A rose by any other name...
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
When I worked for them (pre-divestiture) they were SWBC. Now that you mention it, I do remember Southern becoming BellSouth at or shortly after 1/1/1984, but the SBC thing must've escaped my attention.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
The strike starts on Friday morning (12:01 a.m.) and goes until Tuesday starts (12:01 a.m. again).
See the official CWA announcement.
Libertarians tend to not like unions. Slashdot (and Wired) has a heavily libertarian slant.
-I am an elective eunuch.
Just because trade unions became their own special class of power-mongering hypocrites on many occassions, doesn't mean they didn't *also* provide a necessary counterbalance to company and management abuses. We all now benefit enormously from what they achieved; I feel sorry for countries like China which will probably industrialize without them.
Also, on the issue of purely US-centric news, perhaps these items need their own little section (or at least a distinguishing category/graphic). I'm sure this news is very important to some of you, but it's also pretty much irrelevant to everyone else.
Yeah, like I said above... I personally feel that the Union has outlived it's usefulness.. SBC pretty much gave them most of the major things they wanted. The two main sticking points are: 1: Medical Copays.. currently the Union guys don't have to pay any medical premiums, and a small copay for each visit. SBC will still pay their premiums, but raise the copays a bit.. but that's still way the hell better than the "Management" employees get. 2: Job Security.. SBC is offering any Union member a job in the same state that they currently work in if their job is "surplused". I think that 100% of people wish they had any job security, let alone that kind. If anybody cares to read SBC's side of things, read www.sbcupdate.com . It will tell SBC's side of things. Now I'm off to frickin' Detroit to run phone lines for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.. thanks Union.
I was just about to post the fact that I have no fucking clue what all those acronyms mean.
I will not bitch about slashdot's editorial policies.
I will not bitch about slashdot's editorial policies.
I will not bitch about slashdot's editorial policies.
I worked for 10 years for U S WEST (regional Bell Operating Company in the midwest/western US)
In 1997, the union went on strike for about 2 weeks, and those of us not union got to fill in for them.
In the first week, one section of the company (AIN Lab in Denver) had a 2-year backlog of orders cleared out, and 2 replacement workers were staying on top of the order flow. This lab was staffed by 4 Union folks.
Within the first three days, my center (Residential Repair Call Handling center in Des Moines) was closing more trouble tickets, with fewer repeat problems, and with shorter hold-times for callers. This center was staffed at approx 40% of the Union workers.
I have studied economics, history, and sociology. When Organized labor was getting started in the US, it was a powerful force for good.
In the telecom sector in the US, organized labor has created an adversarial relationship along an imaginary line ("labor" vs "management") which puts customer service about 4th in the priority list.
It has also created a situation where workers have no real incentive to do any better than half-assed work. There is no "carrot" because a worker who excels is not rewarded, but rather gets grief from her coworkers for making them look bad. There is no "stick" because it's virtually impossible to get fired.
The world at large may be worse off without organized labor.
The phone companies in the US have a reputation throughout the world for bumbling incompetence, and we have the Unions to thank for that.
--
...fewer failures. When the line workers go out on strike, nothing breaks. Studies show that almost all telco failures are a result of installations or configuration changes.
This is just great. I just ordered a service move from Oklahoma City to Austin. This means I'll probably have to wait until next month before my service is set up again. This happened to me once before. I moved to Arizona while US West was on strike, and had to go three weeks without a home phone.
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
The CWA is also trying to organize IT workers. The Techs Unite mailing list is very busy. They also have regular meetings that local IT workers go to in various cities.
I'm quite happy with this happening. I think the most important thing is that it be recognized that IT work is skilled, professional work, that both the CWA and the companies understand this. Some unions have handled this well like SAG, the actors union - I would say Robert DeNiro is highly skilled, although in a different manner than myself. I would not mind CWA rules that I have to be paid overtime after 40 hours, or be paid to be oncall and so forth however. A union would raise wages (as unions always do), lower overwork (overtime would be paid), lower unemployment (less overworked people means more jobs) and be a very good thing.
Which sucks, because Pac Bell Park is easy to say and has a rhythm to it. SBC Park doesn't, and every nickname I come up with using SBC starts with Sucks, and it's really a nice ballpark.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Most conservative types are willing to accept the risk/reward of being business owners (ie, stock in the company, your fortunes SHOULD rise and fall as the company does)
This was once a very liberal and revolutionary idea, but has become the coservative 'norm' now.
So, in order to be stylishly liberal, the scales must be tipped further than the balance we have enjoyed recently. Now the companys don't exist to exploit the labor of the workers, but to sypply profit to the owners (who are also the workers). In order to further tip the scales, these companys must be made to exist, not to generate profit, but to provide jobs for workers, no matter what it is they can do for the company! And more importantly, they must be WELL PAID workers. I don't care if he pulls a broom, designs the network, or orginizes the direction of the entire company, they should all be compensated the same! AND EVEN BETTER! They shouldn't have to work long hours to bmake that six figure salary, with all their health benifits paid for by the company, it should be a 4 day work week, 6 hours a day (ok 8, but we want 2 for lunch)...
This all sounds wonderful, if you are a union worker... to a consumer, it sounds like everything that I buy from that company just got 4x more expensive...
Anyhow, we have our own fiber network, our own switchng equipment, and we are responsible for our own order processing, repairs, service changes, etc. Basically we rely on SBC for what is termed the "last mile", or the cable that leaves from either a COLO (colococation office) or CO (central office) and leads right up to the building being serviced. This also includes the pedestals and other line structures used to pass service along.
We rely on SBC to make repairs to aerial or buried drops and for basic installation. How it works is we send SBC an order saying "Hey, this person wants our service. Hook them up." SBC then gives us the line from their switch and ensures that the line leading from the pedestal or segmentation equipment is dropped off at the NID (Network Interface Device). We then complete the order by doing the necessary routing, NPAC (Number Portability), hooking up the inside wiring, and ensuring service is delivered properly. As you can imagine, while we don't overly rely on SBC's equipment we are very dependent on their service. This strike will make an already long installation process even longer and perhaps delay repairs to infrastructure. While this strike seems to only affect SBC and their customers on the surface, this could have potentially damaging effects on our service as well by delaying key steps in the installation and repair sectors.
SBC has always been a little underhanded when it has come to playing fair, ie giving our customers lines that they knew were of less than stellar quality, delaying the install process when they can get away with it, charging us for doing a "no trouble found" dispatch where the problem "mysteriously" diappears so as to cause an unnecessary dispatch chargeback to appear, etc. We try and get along, but it is not always that easy. We've had issues with their technicians disparaging our service as well, trying to get a "winback" so as to regain their previous customers' service. In fact, we keep a database of all the things that SBC has done to try and undermine our service so we can have an accurate record to present to the PSC (Public Service Commission). You'd be amazed at what SBC tries to do to steal back their customers. Thankfully we do provide cheaper service and better customer care IMHO.
While I understand why the CWA is striking I hope the issue is solved soon. Otherwise it is going to cause our little company a lot of headaches in the long run. While we may not always get along, we are really dependent on SBC to get service and maintanance schedules completed properly and on time.
"This food is problematic."
Shut up and get back to work for $0.02/hr you fucking non-unionized peon! No washroom break for you!
Hey boss! Take this job and shove it. We're tired of working for you, so the best of us in the company are raising some money from friends and family and we're opening up our own business. Let's see you stay in business when all your best and brightest employees are no longer around. Our business will treat workers fairly, give them good wages, safe conditions, and reasonable hours. It's proven that a happy worker is more productive, so we're going to out-produce anything you can do.
Not only that, but we'll advertise our new business and expose the shameful practices of your company. How will you stay in business if you have no good employees, poor quality control, lots of accidents, and all your former customers no longer do business with you because they know friends and family who have been screwed over by you?
We believe in giving workers fair wages and that, by doing so, the best workers in the country will flock to us and we'll be able to choose from the smartest and most capable people there are. These people are so good they wouldn't even consider working for scum like you. Within 18 months, we'll have out-innovated, out-produced, and out-smarted your company. Our products will be much more innovative, better-designed, and of higher quality than anything you could hope to produce. Within two years, you will have to sell your car, your house, and your wife will need to cut off her hair and sell that to a wigmaker just to afford food.
Just you wait, former boss. You will see what an awesome force well-paid and respected workers can be.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
The nice thing about unions is that they mean job security, and protection from overzealous greedy companies. They give the workers a voice and strength against getting screwed by a few rich bastards.
The bad thing about unions is they mean you don't have to work hard to keep a job, even at a generous, well managed company. They give workers a lever to use against management to get what they want even if it means screwing a management who's actually doing a decent job.
Sounds like the same union huh?
Unions themselves aren't inherently evil, but they are easily abused these days. I'd rather have lazy stupid people wandering around happy they have a job than lazy stupid people screaming with picket signs and complaining to me that they have no job and they have the right to break into my house and steal my things because society sucks. I believe in that social safety net and all.
However, tighting up a few rules and introducing some healthy competition into unions would be a stellar idea. How about requiring that companies have more than one union for the same workers?! The union that performs better gets better bonuses from the company. How about restricting some of the practices with unions, like making strikes illegal for more important service companies like SBC, where service is crucial.
But of course, evil unions have lobbies, and would never allow that to happen.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
The SBC moniker actually is not an abbreviation as it does not stand for anything still in existence. It is merely a 3 letter designation that was chosen when the company was formed out of the former Southwestern Bell Company for use on the New York Stock Exchange. Today the true company name is simply "SBC Communications Inc." while "Southwestern Bell Corporation" no longer exists.
Within the company, Southwestern Bell was also referred to as SWB.
See also, KFC, ESPN, TCBY.
SBC, Southwestern Bell Corporation, is the parent company that owns Southwestern Bell (the actual phone service provider), Cingular, DirecTV, SBC Internet (SBC Yahoo! DSL), and probably others.
SBC does not own DirecTV. Never did. Not in the near future. There were some rumors about SBC making an offer (sometime in 2003), but it was turned down (or was false).
All you DirecTV subscribers can breathe easier now.
This article would be made more clear if I knew what, who or whom SBC and/or CWA were. Do they supply toiletries?
If so I can clearly see a public hygiene problem here, and you have my sympathy.
Okay, that was a minor troll, but throw us non-kerkins a bone, make the short informative enough to make the rest worth reading.
Martin Brooks / Slayer99 #linux / UIN 2178117
raider_red caught on guys, let's buck up and go back to work... eh, it was good while it lasted..
:)
PS. Yes, we are out to get you.
feh. stuff.
Maybe you got layed off to begin with because the company couldn't afford to pay all your asses thanks to the Union raising wages higher than the the company could afford.
Unions destroy a company's ability to remain competitive. Why do you think all our jobs are moving to India. Do you think they bitch about their wages nearly as much as Americans?
My company gets its T1 service from SBC. My ISP does to. I know someone who works for a Chicago company that has a DS3 from SBC with a few T1 lines from other providers--but most of those other providers actually use SBC circuits anyway.
This is news because if there are network problems that cannot get fixed in a timely basis, you could see major swaths of the US dropping offline.
I do not think this is at all likely, but it is a possibility. This is more than just local phone service and given that the ISP's and corporations using that SBC backbone are providing the content for many of the sites that Slashdotters surf to, this is newsworthy.
But, they should have explained the acronyms and why this was significant.
I'm sure some pro-SBC droid will moderate this down, but I don't care.
I hate SBC. They have lousy DSL and telephone service, idiot customer reps, incompetent or FUD spewing technicians, they outsource phone support to India, the management lies, SBC is expensive, and they're an abusive monopoly that needs to be crushed.
I welcome the strike. It won't affect me -- I don't have a land-line. I use a cellular phone, and it isn't Cingular, and I use cable Internet. Unlike those who "rebel" against SBC by using a CLEC (which then gives money to SBC for leasing the copper), SBC doesn't make a dime from me.
Good riddance you scumbags!
I agree wholeheartedly.
75 years ago people died, just to make a livable wage! Certainly the same holds true these days?
Unions aren't useful anymore...get rid of them...
As for people who strike - get rid of them, replace them with people who will work...Unions had their place in history - but no longer...
Stop dealing with these idiot RBOCs like SBC and Verizon. Duh.
I had one job where we sat around talking for more than half the day, the company gives us more stuff do and some of the people I work with are furiously mad and nearly ready to quit. Sometimes people need to lean to suck it up and drive on.
SBC should take the time they skip from their sick days. If they don't have enough sick days left, terminate them and hire someone more productive.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
God damn I hate Unions! We just got over a long strike with the Grocery
markets. All that happened in the end was that the workers had to go without
pay for months while us customers had to put up with poor service from the
scabs... Damn you unions!!! The chains won in in the end, as they should
have. We still have a free market in the US. The Chains are still aloud to
be competitive, even if that means forcing your employees to pay a little for
their health care.
Crap, now where will I get my caffiene? Guess I half to go all the way to starbucks...
Patent: from Latin patere, to be open
It's easy to resent union workers for having pay, benefits, and job security that other workers lack. But the solution to that is to strengthen unions, rather than weaken them. Higher union density means better wages, benefits, and conditions for everyone.
Compare the situation of workers in the U.S. to other industrialization nations with higher unionization rates, and you'll discover American workers are being seriously screwed.
Also consider the history of the United States. Appreciate the 40 hour work week? Think having a strong middle class has been good for the country? Thank the labor movement. It's not a coincidence that it's begun to disappear (real wages falling since the 1970s) at the same time as the unions have been weakened.
Check out the AFL-CIO's All About Unions page, and think seriously about the consequences of scabbing.
Red All Over: Rambling Missives from an Aspiring Revolutionary
For example Arizona is Qwest. Well you don't get any more south (it borders Mexico for those that don't know), and nost much more west, than Arizona.
If we want to build a great country with a great standard of living, like Denmark, where everyone has 5 or more weeks of vacation, and having surgery won't bankrupt, and where you don't have to worry about homelessness, then ALL workers should strike periodically, i.e., SHUT DOWN the country. Show the neoliberal puppetmasters who is really the boss.
Learn more about what I am talking about here:
http://www.american-pictures.com/english/r
more here:
http://www.geocities.com/cryofan/socialdem
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Which is all great, except who are SBA, CWA or Verizon? If they go on strike, what changes?
.org" site?
I seriously have no idea. Whenever I see Verizon, I think it's Verisign.
All the Slashdot blurb tells me is that SBC provide a service and repair existing services. That service could be mobile dog-washing for all the explaining done.
The first article tells me that CWA is Communications Workers of America. The second suggests that a telephone company is involved, and the third is fluff.
So people might experience delays with getting a new phone service or repairing an existing one, but can still make calls, and this is frontdoor news on an "international
I've had news submissions about students discovering critical flaws in wireless technology get rejected while something like this gets through? Hmm.
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
How few people here know who SBC is, I mean they are only in 13 states but still, SBC is one of the larget telecom companies in the US.
There are some particularly interesting things to note about this strike (for the record I am one of the replacement workers set to go in to work when they go on strike, alongside alot of out of town SBC managers and some retired SBC workers).
First off, the original strike deadline was set for the 7th of May, for some stupid reason the CWA decided to work through the deadline even though next to NO concessions were made by SBC, thus weakening their position.
Second, as if it didnt seem dumb before, this isnt the first time the CWA tried this tactic, they previously did the same thing at Verizon last year, not suprisingly they ended up getting squeezed on most issues, including a ~$1 billion healthcare package.
Third, the strike is, if you can believe this, a 4 day only strike....to quote a CWA spokesperson "this will show SBC how seriously we are taking this issue."....right....so, to show how serious you are, you worked through one deadline....set another, and then openly told them it would last no more than 4 days....thats serious folks.
Also for what its worth the same spokesperson said the move was only 4 days because they dont want to inflict permanent damage to SBC's business, however at the same time they are mobilizing a carrier switch campaign aimed at persuading SBC's business customers to switch over to AT&T (who does business in 11 of SBC's 13 operating states).
Personally I think the CWA workers have a D@MN good job, and even with the increases laid out in this plan have some excellent healthcare plans....however I feel bad for them because it appears their negotiators have their heads firmly implanted in their rectums.
I honestly wish I could get by without taking this job because while I disagree with the unions I dont neccisarily like the idea of being a replacement worker, but apparently unbeknownst to the CWA workers, the economy sucks and IT jobs are about as scarce as it gets. But either way, as long as I make enough money to keep a roof over my head and they get enough of their demands met, I guess its a win/win.
"The saddest words of mice and men, are not those which were, but should have been."
Drill baby drill - on Mars
From what I understand, SBC doesn't actually stand for anything. Here is what I have from some informational reading (sorry, there doesn't seem to be a webpage that has it):
There you have it.
The SBC workers in the CWA who are threatening to strike are being rediculous if you ask me. Their big sticking point is that they do not feel that they should have to pay a copay on medical visits. These workers all get FREE healthcare (NOTHING is deducted from their checks) and are complaining because the company wants to raise their copay to $20 for the next 2 years, then 25 for 2 more, and then $30... But again.. they pay nothing but copays.
SBC non-union employees pay about $500 a month out of their checks and already have a $20 copay.
These guys have cushy jobs... What other job can you stretch 4 jobs out over the course of a day, sit in your truck and read the paper for 4 hoursm and then collect overtime to boot?
I'm not an SBC employee, but i know that as a VP @ a NYC brokerage firm, I pay $450 monthly for medical (that doesnt even include dental) and have a $20 copay.. And i actually have to work for a living.
These guys need to come back to reality and stay at work. If it were upto me I'd fire all of the ungrateful bastages, and give the jobs to those who are out of a job. People whine about the economy, but it cant be that bad if these guys are crying about a $5 raise in their copay
Just my $0.02
I'm usually in favor of unions, but this seems to be a part of a growing trend of unions rejecting progress. I absolutly love VoIP; free long distance is a godsend for me. In instances like machines replacing musicians in Les Miserables, I have more sympathy for the workers, even though they didn't strike, since it's an artistic craft, but in cases like this when there is a replacement that is in every way better and the unions attempt to stop it, I am utterly disgusted.
I bet this will be modded "Troll," but oh well.
Speaking as a customer service worker at a CLEC phone company with a name that resolves in roman numerals, it'll also mean that CLEC orders in the SBC area--for new telephone lines, moves, or even migrations--and also phone repairs will also be delayed, since it's SBC's workers who actually do the switching and fixing.
Boy, I'm glad the CLEC is laying me off at the end of June, otherwise I might have to keep working there. I've had enough phone CS to last a lifetime.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Wal Mart is okay! They're so generous that they hand out info on how to get food-stamps along with their pay packets that are kept light in weight so that their workers can carry them more easily!
Drill baby drill - on Mars
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
You were merely stating the opposite of your true beliefs, which is irony. Sarcasm frequently uses irony, but is marked by the addition of intent, that is to wound or ridicule. Usually, sarcasm is directed at an individual while irony is more general.
Sorry, sorry. I'll shut up now. Misuse of irony and sarcasm is a pet peave.
BTW, thanks for sticking up for worker's rights. Class issues are still very real, despite people's attempts to belittle them. When was the last time you saw a rich man, black white or green, convicted on a murder charge?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
...The union went to management and strong-armed them into restoring a lot of jobs in income-producing areas, including mine... ...Good thing I did, too. Within six months of my returning to my old job, the new shop circulated a petition amoung the workers to get rid of the union. As soon as the union was gone, they moved all the first-tier tech support positions to India.
Lesson learned. Unions mean job security. No unions mean you take your chances.
So, how did you learn that lession when the other company with the union had every worker laid off? How again is the lesson that a union means job security?
All I learned is that your current company can handle a few more workers than the other company. It's nice they argued for you there but obviously at the other place the same argument did not fare so well - and in fact the presence of the union may well have led to the vaporization of the whole department, rather than a targeted layoff! If I were you I'd be looking for something else, it seems like your job is living on borrowed time.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Perhaps they'll realize how little they need middle managers!
Sadly that thought never seems to occur to them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Well /. assumes that if it's users don't know something they could google for it. Hell, in 1/2 the time it took you to write your rant you could have answered your own questions.
As long as they kept paying him, then they were in fact accepting the modification he made of said arrangemnet to only provide service with no quality.
There is the policy a company states they wish to follow, and there is the policy a companies staff actually implements - these are usually different. A persons job is what they can do and convince the company to pay them for. It's up to the company to hire people that will try to do things beneficial for the company instead of draining from the company. Companies also have the choice to spend less attention to good hiring and more attention to monitoring for enforcement of a centralized policy - but it's more cost effective to find good people that require less monitoring.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Labor union officials enjoy many extraordinary powers and immunities that were created by legislatures and the courts. Union officials claim to rely on the support of rank-and-file workers. Yet, they clamor in the political arena to secure and expand their government-granted powers, including the powers to shake down workers for financial support and even to wage campaigns of violent retaliation against non-union employees.
The following list of special privileges reveals the extent to which union bosses have rigged our nation's labor laws in their favor.
Privilege #1: Exemption from prosecution for union violence.
The most egregious example of organized labor's special privileges and immunities is the 1973 United States v. Enmons decision. In it, the United States Supreme Court held that union violence is exempted from the Hobbs Act, which makes it a federal crime to obstruct interstate commerce by robbery or extortion. As a result, thousands of incidents of violent assaults (directed mostly against workers) by union militants have gone unpunished. Meanwhile, many states also restrict the authority of law enforcement to enforce laws during strikes.
Privilege #2: Exemption from anti-monopoly laws.
The Clayton Act of 1914 exempts unions from anti-monopoly laws, enabling union officials to forcibly drive out independent or alternative employee bargaining groups.
Privilege #3: Power to force employees to accept unwanted union representation.
Monopoly bargaining, or "exclusive representation," which is embedded in most of the country's labor relations statutes, enables union officials to act as the exclusive bargaining agents of all employees at a unionized workplace, thereby depriving employees of the right to make their own employment contracts. For example, the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) of 1935, the Federal Labor Relations Act (FLRA) of 1978, and the Railway Labor Act (RLA) of 1926 prohibit employees from negotiating their own contracts with their employers or choosing their own workplace representatives.
Privilege #4: Power to collect forced union dues.
Unlike other private organizations, unions can compel individuals to support them financially. In 28 states under the NLRA (those that have not passed Right to Work laws), all states under the RLA, on "exclusive federal enclaves," and in many states under public sector labor relations acts, employees may be forced to pay union dues as a condition of employment, even if they reject union affiliation.
Privilege #5: Unlimited, undisclosed electioneering.
The Federal Election Campaign Act exempts unions from its limits on campaign contributions and expenditures, as well as some of its reporting requirements. Union bigwigs can spend unlimited amounts on communications to members and their families in support of, or opposition to, candidates for federal office, and they need not report these expenditures if they successfully claim that union publications are primarily devoted to other subjects. For years, the politically active National Education Association (NEA) teacher union has gotten away with claiming zero political expenditures on its IRS tax forms!
Privilege #6: Ability to strong-arm employers into negotiations.
Unlike all other parties in the economic marketplace, union officials can compel employers to bargain with them. The NLRA, FLRA, and RLA make it illegal for employers to resist a union's collective bargaining efforts and difficult for them to counter aggressive and deceptive campaigns waged by union organizers.
Privilege #7: Right to trespass on an employer's private property.
The Norris-LaGuardia Act of 1932 (and state anti-injunction acts) give union activists immunity from injunctions against trespass on an employer's property.
Privilege #8: Ability of strikers to keep jobs despite refusing to work.
Unlike other employees, unionized employees in the private sector have the right to strike; that is, to refuse to work while keeping their job. In some
Amen.
I lose my SBC DS1 line every time it rains. They fumble and bumble, I lose a day's work, and my CEO gets grumpy. Eventually, the water evaporates and all of a sudden, it's "No trouble found". I don't see how a strike would change anything.
At first glance, unions seem anti-capitalistic; and their traditional ties to left-wing politics (especially here in Canada) haven't helped that impression. As a Libertarian and anarcho-capitalist, I don't like anything socialist or opposed to economic freedom.
However, I was thinking about it the other day, and here's what my conclusions were.
1. The employer-employee relationship is economically like any other buyer-seller relationship. The good in this case is labour; the employer buys labour, the employee sells it.
2. Companies - capitalistic associations - allow multiple owners and managers to act as a single employer, and purchase large amounts of labour more efficiently. Hiring terms and salaries can be harmonized and streamlined within the organization.
3. If employers on the labour-demand side can join forces to buy labour, why can't employees on the labour-supply side pool join forces to sell labour?
4. What would a labour-selling organization look like? Why, it would be a union!
In summary, it seems like a union can come about as a capitalistic association; I also believe they've been present throughout history, whether they were called unions, guilds, or went by other names.
The only thing I don't like is when someone is forced to join a union. However, not being allowed to form a union is equally anti-capitalistic, IMHO.
Paul
SBC is no longer Southwestern Bell Company...they changed to Southwestern Bell Communications but are now simply "SBC".
Just as Kentucky Fried Chicken is simply now "KFC".
They advertised this heavily here.
1. they also make a crap ton of money, don't have to work regular workers hours and get to visit the capitol for free.
2. Union members have to agree to the terms submit by the "boss", they can't back out if they disagree. Its like they just say they represent you, take your money, then do what they want most of the time.
I have family members that are long term members, they feel powerless here. There is no contract resolution and still a strike. A strike with a preset end day and no goals to achieve.
Jeoin
Slashdot (and Wired) has a heavily libertarian slant.
Wired, maybe. Slashdot definately not.
Michael, Cliff, CmdrTaco, and Timothy - in that order of severity - are all raving leftists. The readers tend to be heavily leftist-indoctrinated college students or naive teenagers into whom reality has not yet knockied some sense.
There are a few libertarians and even Republicans, but by and large this place is a Clinton Fan Club.
Today was my last day as a 411 operator with SBC. Starting a new job next week. Yay, me.
Anyways, SBC is fucking cheap. They make mad profit every year, but they can't afford a single water cooler for our little 90 person office on the shoreline in Connecticut. They want you plugged in and taking calls on time, but the clocks go unfixed. It feels like a fucking casino. A simple bit of routine maintenance. I'm surprised the mens bathroom light got fixed today.
Good employees that make a company as profitable as it is, should not be treated like disposable trash.
BytesTemplar.com
My DSL went down on Monday, I called them the same day, and they said "We'll call you between 4 and 8PM tomorrow"
No call. Great service guys. Can't wait to see what it'll be like without 80% of their workforce.
- Sherman
On the other hand, in recent years the unions have done more harm than good to workers and consumers. Basically, they've themselves become what they once opposed: greedy, spineless racketeers.
But back to the first hand, we should never be jealous or upset when workers demand better for themselves. We should encourage the strikers, even if their actions inconvenience us. Anyone's victory against corporate greed is a victory for all of us!
SBC is a major, major player in telecommunications. As it holds basically the entire west coast and the southwest, it has a very large portion of the US, which is a very large contributor to the internet community, to put it mildly. Clearly if the USA dropped off the face of the earth the internet would go on without us, but seriously folks, that geographical area is significantly important (or is that the other way around) to the internet in general.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The article stated that the strike pertained to new service and repairs, not to ongoing service. I was questioning its relevance to the wider Slashdot group, and whether in the international name space more effort could be made to explain to users exactly what those intials meant without leaning on Google.
Yes, I'm very aware that Slashdot does whatever it wants, and the core crowd of Linux users are fond of telling people to RTFM instead of providing direct and personable help, but still -- doesn't hurt to put your POV out there.
The sig is just a random poll that I put in my sig every few days -- I'm not sure how that's supposed to have anything to do with the strike, this site, or my comment.
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
The above story is offtopic. Dial-up and Phreaking are obsolete, thus I fail to see how this in any way relates to Nerds.
Last I checked the overall topic was "News for Nerds", can someone please moderate the story offtopic please?
...but people creating real IP don't get outsourced.
THink harder!
Blar.
Your decision-making skills should only be used if that is part of your job description. What if the guys doing trash pickup decided that the only wanted to hit half the houses?
Blar.
SNET (Southern New England Telephone) is owned and operated by SBC. I saw SNET trucks all over Connecticut. Now I'm back in California and see SBC trucks everywhere. They cover a fair portion of the USA.
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
Management knows this, and accepts less throughput for better quality. I also get the more entertaining (and challenging) problems assigned to me because I can figure them out, whereas Mr. Speedy gets frustrated when he can't fix it in 5 minutes.
BTW - I work in a union shop, and although it isn't great, it does protect you when some manager decides to make your life a living hell. Also rewards you when you stay put for a few years, as I'm starting to find out. OTOH, they also protect some drooling morons who shouldn't have been hired in the first place.
Clinton was a neoliberal whose neoliberal policies, along with Bush, another even more conservative neoliberal, have laid waste to America's job market. I say try them both for treason in a recognized court of law.
In fact, the democratic party of America is in NO WAY a leftist organization. THere is no Left in America.
You want leftism? Go to Europe, South America.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
race == untouchable.
/end rant..
see: Southern (anything)
-----
My junior yr biology teacher was not a teacher - he was a tenured black man waiting for retirement. EVERY day's 'lesson' involved receiving a few sheets of fill in the blank questions, that required we read the text (during class) and then fill in the blanks and turn in before the end of class.
Because of that FUCK, I decided science wasn't interesting - although it had been prior to that time... -
THE ONLY CLASS REQUIREMENT HE ENFORCED: His own rule was that we were not allowed to rest our chins on both our hands ( as we would likely fall asleep) we were only allowed to rest our chins with one hand ( so that if we did fall asleep - then we would wake when our FACE hit the desk)...
He was a worthless UNION FUCK.
That FUCK is probably still living off his union teacher wages - while HE turned OFF so many to Science..
A few years later at University, I had an interesting Science class, but by then it was too late..
My EX-Wife is a teacher..(is that why I divorced her????)
She had NO CHOICE WRT union wages. She was in the teachers union by caveat - she did not care for the union but could not find a job w/o being in the union..
So you admit the presence of a union in one case was of no use whatsoever! That's what I was saying. Sure, it got you your job back at one place - for a while. But look what it did for the OTHER guys who were in a union and probably thought they were as safe as you imagine yourself to be!
Do you really think it would have stopped the outsourcing to have that union still around? The only power a union has is that everyone can stop working at once - which is what the company did by outsourcing them all.
If you are relying on a union to keep you employed instead of your own devices - well, good luck.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So the AFL-CIO puts out the word that they all need to switch from SBC to other carriers that service them. All those orders get put in to cut off SBC service and start the other service.
Of course, the carriers don't actually have wire running to all those houses. Who does? SBC.
So all those orders to cut off SBC get processed (since they can be done by a clerk at a computer), but the orders to set up new service all go through the CLECs, and ultimately end up at SBC. And, as we all know, getting rival networks together isn't something a clerk can do at a computer.
That, by the way, would be the same company currently experiencing a strike. Thus causing understaffing. Thus ensuring that only "important" issues get dealt with -- you know, like issues regarding their own customers. Which those poor union people aren't, anymore.
Suddenly, "union" becomes synonymous with "no phone service".
So someone sues, or otherwise throws a fit. SBC points to the strike. "We can't even service our own customers; how can we be expected to service all these other people too?"
Solution? Some judge orders the union back to work on the old contract. They walk back in with loads and loads of work waiting for them, courtesy of their best buds at the AFL-CIO.
And then come quarterly figures. Oops! 5 million customers lost; revenues are down a gajillion percent. Gotta cut costs. Well, heck, 5 million less customers paying us means 5 million less customers we have to service. Layoff time!
Oh, and by the way, you remember those contract negotiations? Well, see, we can't give you a raise anymore, because profits are way down. Sorry about that.
Yeah, I know; it's only four days. I suppose that proves that the unions aren't completely cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
... it was just after I signed on with two friends to be the 3rd tenant in a Brooklyn apartment.
... soon as our strike is over, and as soon as the resulting backlog is gone through, and soon as we damn well please, haveanicedaythiscallmaybemonitoredforqualityassura nce) which meant I couldn't telecommute from the apartment even by dialup. Verizon controlled the lines, too, making it impossible to get service for a while even if you wanted another company to provide its rendition of the fabled dialtone. DSL? Ha, just you wait. Cable? Sorry, must have local phone service, we were told.
;)) And they kept charging me, months after my account was alleged to have been closed.
Two months without phone service (gosh, sorry, we're really trying to install it
So, Verizon's strike cost me about two months of rent -- that is, time during which I could either a) pay daily for internet cafes and such or b) stay in MD and work from my connection there while paying the sunk rent in Brooklyn, which is what I did except for a few weekends. Thanks, Verizon, thanks a bunch. Brotherhood of man, greatly pleased by your extended middle digit, progress marches ever on. Oh, and the (crap, fraudulently false adversing) Merlin wireless service from Verizon sucked as bad as the worst reports about it would suggest. I did get that, because I could order it from MD and have it work (well, not "work" exactly, but y'know, try to work) in NYC (unlike local physical phone hookup, which pretty much has to be done on-premises
Not that I'm bitter.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
One of my reasons for dropping a land line and going with a cell phone only was SBC. Dealing with them was just a pain in the @$$. Tha last straw was when I tried to transfer a phone line to a another person (I moved out and tried to leave phone number to roommate). Three months of calling and each time getting an answer that they will take care of it. We just gave up and I left the phone under my name and they paid it.
I have had less problems with my cell phone in four years than I did with SBC in one.
Methinks he is a social conservative without any ideological stands on economics other than following the money!
Correlation is not causation?
Beggers can't be choosers?
Here is the Union See N Say game.
You are missing my point. What would the presence of the union have done to laying off the whole group? Nothing at all, since (as I said in my last message) the power of the union is organized bargaining and the strike. In the case of outsourcing a whole group, there is no union power. And, perhaps they considreed this action because the workers had unionized.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley