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XP SP2 Torrent Shows Legal P2P's Promise
Downhill Battle writes "With Congress debating new legislation that would ban p2p networks (along with other innovations and beloved products), we thought it was important to demonstrate the huge potential of p2p software to benefit the public. So now at SP2torrent.com you can get Windows XP SP2 via BitTorrent." Update: 08/09 21:10 GMT by S : As commenters note, you can also get XP SP2 from Microsoft's site, but it's explained: "DO NOT CLICK DOWNLOAD IF YOU ARE UPDATING JUST ONE COMPUTER: A smaller, more appropriate download will be available soon on Windows Update."
...would I want to download a Windows operating system upgrade from an unknown source? Why not just wait for Windows Update?
It definately helps to have object examples of good, legal use.
Though I'm not sure if the XP SP2 torrent is legal...What's in the EULA about redistribution?
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Do you have Microsoft's permission to redistribute the service pack?
No?
Surprise! It's illegal.
Well, I got to the website OK. However, trying their torrent link results in "Timeout connecting to peers" :-( I tried it several times, all the same. Can somebody with some under-the-hood knowledge tell us, is it possible to slashdot a torrent link ?
Never, ever lose a file again. Ever.
... if it wasn't for the fact that MS's hosting services have totally blown away every connection I've thrown at it. I've seriously gotten 500KB/s from them before. (Bytes, not bits.)
"Derp de derp."
I know a lot of people got the DOOM 3 trailer via torrent.
That's great and all, but lawmakers won't listen until MS or is using Bittorrent themselves to distribute updates.
My prediction is that MS will do the "embrace and extend" thing with bittorrent once they catch on to it.
but one thing to point out:
Download Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2)
Downloads require BitTorrent: Windows, Mac, Linux.
Why would I want to download SP2 for Mac or Linux? Normally I could so downloading it on another machine if you don't have access to the internet where you want to install it. Honestly, if the machine you want to install it on doesn't have access to the internet then why do you need the security changes of SP2?
Then this does not show how P2P can be used in a legal manner...INFINITELY USEFUL--yes!, but not legal.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Thanks to Napster and other infamous P2P networks it will be next to impossible for the bad stigma of P2P networks to be lifted. Sure a SP2 torrent has some usefulness but bittorrent is not main stream enough for this website to accomplish any significant good.
Check out The Linux Mirror Project for example. Which has torrents for Slackware, Slax, Fedora, Mandrake, Knoppix, Debian, Gentoo & FreeBSD
----
...this is a very good example of how p2p can be used in a productive legal way.
:p
On the other, I wouldn't trust any 'security' patches found on p2p networks unless the file's link came from MS's site directly.
"Useless organic meatbag" -HK-47
MPAA and RIAA ( through our beloved Sen Hatch ) will outlaw p2p networks.
We'll use them anyway.
A few people will get lawsuits ( notably, those who run insecure versions on their OS that are running, in effect, an open proxy ), a few people will pay thousands of dollars, and the rest of us won't even bat an eye.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
While I don't agree with the INDUCE act, it doesn't ban all "P2P", it bans the setup of networks explicitly for exchanging pirated materials.. Ie; Kazaa, eDonkey.. Don't make yourself look like fools defending them, yeah there's some token 0.0001% of content that's legal on them.. Everyone knows that they're for downloading MP3s and DivX's and warez.
I don't see any law that threatens to make it illegal to send content from one node on the network (or peer) to another node - hence, peer to peer. I've never seen bittorrent threatened when used to distribute legal content, though sites like suprnova are walking a fine line by encouraging it as a means for piracy.
Complain, get active.. That's great. But dont exagerate or you wind up making a fool of yourself. If you want to write your congressperson or senator, do so with lucid well-thought arguments, not a bunch of "slippery slope" and hysterical dystopian visions of the future.. That, at most, gets chuckled at before crumpled and pitched into the can.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
As a subscriber, I can tell you that story was supposed to go live, but was replaced by this one a few minutes ago instead.
You can now get it directly from Microsoft.
One thing that any law must possess in order to be a law is that it can be enforced. You can't rule that breathing air is illegal because the law enforcement couldn't follow the law and still make it take effect. How could Congress ever enforce a BitTorrent ban? Copying certain types of data (terrorism communications or child pornography) can be limited and the enforcement of these sorts of transgressionsn is relatively routine now, but in the absence of enforceability, don't look for anti-BitTorrent legislation in the near future. Larry Rosen is right, there is reason to be optimistic about the ability for law to protect our freedoms.
http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
Linux distros have been distributed via BitTorrent for a while now and it's already proven itself to be an amazing thing.
Let's stop kidding ourselves on this subject. Yes, there are some legit uses for P2P networks, but let's just admit that 99% of the useage of P2P networks is Porn, MP3's and Warez.
Linux O Muerte!
They're just showing legal uses of p2p with something that could do with the help - 250mb per Windows installation is a lot of bandwidth. BitTorrent is an ideal halfway house for getting stuff out fast and helping each other out.
Hell, it's even worth you Linux users seeding the torrent. It'll mean your dsl connection gets less hammered with 0wn3d Windows boxes doing port scans.
Good on them - a lot of publicity for not much cash. Nice.
However, I don't think corporate america will embrace it entirely until another major corporation uses it. I suspect that the revamp of Steam to use bittorrent like behavior might be a great example of a bad system being replaced with a good system. Though I'm sure a few people will be upset that their bandwidth is being used without their expressed permission. (The guy who made BitTorrent got hired by value to help them out.)
Either way, I think it's a bright future for us gamers. `8r) That is, assuming technology problems are treated as technology problems, rather than criminal problems. Just because someone can use a BetaMAX machine to copy a tape doesn't mean they will...
Gonzo Granzeau
"Nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for.." -Roy Batty
The ferion.net server is b0rked. It gives 403's :P
I haven't actually seen anything that suggests that P2P protocols themselves might be banned, rather that certain companies will get their asses handed to them. BitTorrent has been often use illegitimately, but it is not billed as a big time file sharing network a la Kazaa. The fact that it is often used by geeks for legitimate purposes means that any judge who ruled against it on a "reasonable person" basis would probably get slapped down on appeals.
;)
Which brings me to the next reason I'm not too concerned with this bill. A reasonable person standard on something like this is highly subjective. There is no general public opinion upon which a consistent, long term reasonable person standard could be based. The SCOTUS will probably realize that and slap it down as unconstitutionally vague.
Seriously people, if ya'll want to really make the copyright cartels eat crow, go out and buy music from non-RIAA labels like Century Media. If you've never heard of Lacuna Coil, they're an Italian metal band that is getting really big thanks to a stint on Headbangers' Ball and touring with Ozzfest. They're damn good AND not RIAA affiliated according to the RIAA Radar site. Century Media has a lot of affiliates, and chances are that if you buy European or underground metal, it's not RIAA affiliated.
Don't pirate software or movies, at least not openly. If you're going to do movies, go to blockbuster, rent a new release, rip it, use dvd2one or dvdshrink and burn it to a DVD-R instead of fueling the propaganda about file sharing networks. Afterall, if rental rates increase, they have no excuse that people aren't using legitimate means to watch movies
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Oh and how about banning librarys, as they only server to allow people to look at copyrighted material.
You know what happens when people read books right? They get knowledge. Knowledge is power, power corrupts, corruption is crime, crime doesn't pay. OMG the United States economy can be blamed on librarians!
legislators seemingly wont care if there are some legitimate files out there being shared via torrent.I'd bet that if u looked at ISP logs that you would see the vast majority of torrent traffic is for illegal files. As long as there are some illegal warez being shared its still illegal and the underlying tool for distrubution (see bittorrent) will be blamed for the propagation of said illegal files.
_+_+__+_+_+_+_+_+_+++
when i moo u moo - just like that
That is the silliest article I have ever read. We constantly are telling people not to do their own updates - not just for Windows but everything. Every little patch gets tested thoroughly before being deployed so why would we test a service pack? Next thing you know there will be an article saying that IBM tells employees not to install new hardware on their machines.
IBM is telling employees not to install the patch, due to known conflicts with business-critical software that they use. They are not recomending that general users don't upgrade. If you're gonna link the artical, RTFA.
This is of course a perfect example of legal use for P2P, but it could be argued that it is only one such example and shouldn't count for much. I say let P2P remain in its current form and keep legislators from hindering it. In the end it might take a company like Microsoft to put pressure on law makers not to outlaw P2P.
Please note that:
1) I'm a Furthur.net user and understand that legal P2P exists.
2) I oppose restrictions on P2P and am perfectly happy to rely on the RIAA suing violators instead.
3) I understand that this is a patch, not Windows itself. (Although is this distribution within the rights of the EULA? I certainly hope they've made sure it is.)
But as PR, this seems like a really poor idea.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
You can download it now from Microsoft. This isn't the streamlined version you would get from the automatic updater, but is official all the same.
I am frightened of Congressional regulation. Everybody I know thinks they know what it means, but they all have different definitions. Does anybody know how congress will define P2P? Will P2P be defined as a program that a "user" uses to "share" content? An evil computer that is configured so it can "download" and "upload" at the same time?
When the jackbooted thugs knock at your door, will you be able to explain why your system is running Apache and Mozilla at the same time?
- teidou
Currently there are all sorts of miscreants out there doing unspeakable acts to poor defenseless setup.exe files which will burn the end-user and turn them off to P2P.
If there existed a secure, integrated/easy way to verify that this XPSP2 fileset came from Microsoft without tampering (publishing MD5 sums is the antithesis to easy to normal users), I would click on the .torrent or whatever without hesitation.
The authentication would rely on the Public Key Infrastructure and have chains of trust that would go back to the CA's, just like we do with SSL certs.
I like "quotes"
This comment does not necessarily represent the views and opinions of the author.
..and got sustained rates of over 250KB/sec. My P2P Bitborrent download (started at the same time) is still going and chugging along at a whopping 20KB/sec. I think I'll stick with Microsoft's servers.
3000+ comments meta-modded. 0 mod points awarded.
Lesson for other meta-suckers: Don't believe the hype!
I doubt Microsoft's bandwidth will suffer from this download.
Well duh, they want to make sure it works with all their software. I'm sure they are mostly talking about their close customers who rely on IBM for their business, and IBM can't be sure everythig will be smooth. But seriously this is the same as me telling all my office not to download and install it personally to wait untill I have tested it and I will deploy it for them
..."IBM tells users not to install Windows XP update"
IBM told its INTERNAL employee users to wait before updating.
Hm, I'm pretty sure this Bitorrent thing will backfire somehow, but I haven't smoked enough SCO-RIAA-MPAA-MS brand crack to come up with some crazy reason... So, I say go for it! I want to hear some crazy anti-P2P reason that sharing a Service Pack is bad.
Adidas To Bring Back Sneakernet
p2p technology was revolutionised as a result of that 2001 Napster ruling. The geeks set out to think, even those who were already thinking p2p thought deeper. The result was kazaa. Though many "law makers" have cried foul again and again, I have watched p2p grow. With the latest revolution in p2p technology involving internet telephony headed by Skype very few people see where the turning road was laid. OfCourse ./ers will agree with me, the bannishing of napster was a blessing indisguise as regards to p2p technology. While the congress, RIAA, MPAA .. look at a Devil we the non sinners see the Angel in p2p
Imagine if the vaudeville and stage actors had gotten together back in the early 20th century and gotten motion pictures outlawed. Or if actresses and actors who had horrible speaking voices had gotten talkies outlawed in the late 1920's, etc. The recent legal trend to try to hold back technological progress is disturbing to say the least. Its also stupid and futile in the long run.
This isn't entirely legal p2p. The torrent is not seeded by microsoft, it's being hosted by a 3rd party. I don't have time to go through microsoft's EULA for SP2, but chances are - you're not allowed to distribute it. It may be "free beer", but MS can still raise a fuss about who sends it out.
The opinions in this post are ficticious. Any similarity to actual opinions, real or imagined, is purely coincidental.
How does this get modded as informative? I'll be the first to burn MS as the stake, but IBM isn't rolling out because they failed to udpate thier OWN INTERNAL APPS, not becaue there is something wrong with SP2.
I really like the idea of this, but I worry about the legality of it (like a lot of others here apparently). Distributing the patch this way might be some sort of copyright infringement. I'm curious if the site admin ever asked microsoft for their permission to do this...
No its a fake. Microsoft is putting out a trojan 270MB (or so) .EXE on their website.
Watch out!
Myself, I've downloaded it directly from MicrosoftYes, that link works for SP2- found it on Neowin.net earlier. Not sure why it's not being publicized yet.
sincerely, if P2P becomes illegal in a country like the US wouldn't it suck to have more freedom in Russia?
That doesn't change anything said in the article.
foundonp2p.com
yes, I'm shamelessly plugging my own site, but its relevant, and I'm not making a dime, in fact you will probably cost me money in bandwidth!
We all need to band together to help Microsoft. It'd be a shame and make us all suffer if they couldn't afford to pay their bandwidth bill and their ISP shut them down.
Agreed. My agency won't be upgrading right away either- we've still got about 270 applications to TEST let alone recompile (that's all most of them need- valid digital signatures).
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
All MS patches/service packs have an automatic CRC check routine before installation. If it installs it is from a valid source, i.e. MS.
If it installs, it is from a valid source?!? Hey, that gives me a great idea:
Alert! Microsoft just released a brand new critical patch.
If you'll just post your e-mail address, I'll get a "friend" to e-mail it to you. Don't worry: it's perfectly safe.
There's a built in checksum.
Sheesh.
Bittorret vs Alkwhateverthehellitscalled speed wise I think I can download it from Microsoft's site around 400 times before this bittorret gets to 50%. I have never been a big proponent of using P2P for something like this.
a) I want to totally trust the source, no matter how evil it may be
b) I want it to go faster....
c) see above...
I know bittorret could be a real tool if more people used it etc but it still doesn't always hit 500k when I click on a bittorret file... while whenever I download from Microsoft, it does... (except for a few DDOS days)
I'm obviously being dumb, but how can we have a "legal" public torrent of something that's not actually been publically released yet?
Martin Brooks / Slayer99 #linux / UIN 2178117
Did you know that IBM tells users not to install Windows XP update?
There is one too many words in that sentence.
I'll fire that baby up just as soon as the Windows XP torrent finishes.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
Hmmmm.
My torrent file came with SP2 + Loads of free viruses, and a text file letting me know that I've be "0wn3d!!!" When did Microsoft add "l33+ |-|/-\x0rz" to their logo? :-)
I boycott signatures
http://www.google.com/search?q=SP2torrent&sourcei
even though Google adds are used on SP2torrent
hence, a new service for Googlers to think about: how to list new (and usefull) sites faster...
it would be helpfull to cover 'breaking news' like torrent of SP2 or some other internet activity..
then again, they get tons of new submissions dayly - how do you figure which ones are 'usefull'?...
Just because I don't care, it doesn't mean I don't understand. Homer J. Simpson
Will this patch my RedHat installation? Should i think about switching to Windows?
Has the copyright owner approved the redistribtion of this patch by third parties? Or can this be described as "Legal P2P" only using some brand new defintion of "Legal"?
I think inexpensive distributed file hosting is a great idea, and I think P2P networks are a great way to implement that. But, copyright infringement is still copyright infringement, even if you're able to justify it to yourself.
The torrent is slashdotted! It's going TOO FAST!!! send help
The only reason I saw mentioned in the article is that IBM is worried about some of it's applications not being compatible, etc.
Which is more IBM's fault than MS, I think. Betas and RC of SP2 have been out for quite some time, enough to evaluate and provide workarounds, if not total fixes.
Finally, if it does break stuff, why not bite the bullet ASAP, because you will have to someday.
Perhaps this should have been titled "XP SP2 Shows Legitimate use for P2P."
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Since when have law makers restricted use of information and technology in order to avoid inconveniencing the end users?
Get it through your head that laws aren't made to protect individuals anymore, they are made to protect corperations from consumers.
You think showing that P2P can help valid releases get distributed is going to make a difference? The shareholders don't give a rats ass about taking away peoples rights.
Shit I really wanted to avoid going on a rant.
Love,
Zaq
methinks the guy who modded the parent "-1 offtopic" has had a sense of humour failure...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
because it linked to a relevant article which contained information, which I also found interesting.
on the other hand, you are offtopic, overrated and, to anyone who read the article,redundant.
by design. So, do they want to outlaw the whole network and flush Al Gore's invention down the toilet? This whole this thing will come to naught.
Isn't any instant messenger client a P2P application?
.22 pistol. Burglars are scared shitless of entering my home because I might have a pistol. Bullshit! And yet, that's the only one anyone stands up and protects. Sheesh! If the NRA put its might behind arguing for the freedom of the internet, we might be able to keep something just as dangerous to an oppressive government as an armed populace: the freedom to exchange ideas.
If I run a web server off of my home computer, and I'm not violating my ISP's usage agreement, and I give my neighbour my IP address and he grabs a text document off my computer, that I wrote, am I not running a valid P2P network?
How about email? Is that not the ultimate P2P application? Is that going to be challenged now?
I really want to know when a network becomes something that the government can start legislating against. If I run a CAT5 from my desktop to my laptop, does that count? What if I sit on my porch with the laptop and a wireless connection? What if I sit on my neighbour's porch? What if he connects to my mini wireless LAN with his laptop? What if a bunch of neighbours do?
What defines the real internet? When did the internet go from a bunch of university computers hooked together to an entitity regulated by the government?
Why can't we create a new one specifically anonymous, secure, and NOT FOR PARENTS TO LET THEIR KIDS PLAY ON, and them complain that THERE'S STUFF THEY DON'T WANT THEIR KIDS TO SEE! I realize that's a bit off topic, since this is about copyright.
So is every technology that has both legitimate and illegitimate uses to be banned? Except hand guns, because THAT'S an item we all have a legitimate use for every freakin' day. I always go hunting with my little
I'm sick of this, I really am.
Lets be a bit more clear here : If the US wants to ban it, fine! But lets get away from the US-centric mentallity! Just because the US says you cant do it, doesn't mean the rest of the world cant. How they could possibly attempt to legislate something like this is rediculous- the internet is no longer centered in one country - you cant define what people worldwide can and cant do. Asides from being impossible, its a major waste of time and US tax payers money.
But as the guy claims, he's not trying to make any money, just help people with dialup connections. How noble. SP2 CD on eBay
the company I work for relies on IBM and our software doesn't work already. What harm could SP2 do that XP doesn't already do.
1. Svc. Pack 2 is still not publically available to all and sundry...
:> )... if it goes wrong via bittorrent d/load can I then scream to M$?
:( )
2. Have M$ sanctioned the distribution of Svc 2 via bittorrent?
3. Regardless of my personal fealings towards MS or any other vendor there is only one place I will go to download that vendor's proprietry closed source service packs and updates... that place being their own official download site- if it goes wrong I can point fingers (usually two of them
4. Also while Congress might be debating the legality of P2P and as much as it pains me to point this out US != Internet / World. Just cause congress outlaw P2P doesn't mean I'll have to follow suite (though while we have the Blair in charge we probably will
--- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
Not only do I have a mirror on my site, but I am using FreeCache for the SP. Remember, all you have to do is add 'http://freecache.org/' to the beginning of the link. So now you can click here to download directly from Microsoft
Mike http://thenextgenerationofradio.com
1000+ sources, distributed load, no slow trackers
ed2k://|file|WindowsXP-KB835935-SP2-EN U.exe|278927592|5AED2232C451F2308164D9440E7FDCDE|
Via Bittorrent, I'm getting about 0.1k/s, but if I go and directly download from Microsoft's website, I get 100k/s. Go BitTorrent, Go! :)
Can someone upload a torrent of SP2 with a key generator? Thanks!
Maybe because the firewall/NAT is configured to only pass the BitTorrent ports to a single Mac or Linux box.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
> they failed to udpate thier OWN INTERNAL APPS.
You choose your operating system to work with your apps, not the other way around.
You don't run a corperation on bleeding edge, which is why RedHat Advanced server,seen as lowly by slashdot, is really a lot more appropriate for the corperate server room.
IBM hasn't updated their apps. This is normal. Unless there is something in the new version that Justifies it, or that version is EOLed by the vender, nor should they.
In spite of that, a "Service Pack" shouldn't break applications. To Sun, IBM, HP, Linux users, a "Service Pack" is a cluster of patches. To Microsoft, a "Service Pack" is whole lot of shit to foister on the clients without given them the option to install only what they need.
This is one reason why MS truly isn't ready for the datacenter.
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
With Congress debating new legislation that would ban p2p networks
Is there such a thing as a p2p file sharing system that cannot be traced to the user?
Not only are they putting themselves out there on the question of redistribution, the Torrent just isn't reliably working.
Some statement for P2P - the cause was better off without this site.
[sig]darkfus[/sig]
ixnay on the oozenet-ay.
Anyone have the MD5 for SP2 handy? I d/l direct from microsoft.com, but would still like verification of the d/l integrity.
"Filing a lawsuit under the Induce Act is like dropping a litigation bomb on any company that gives users products that have even the slightest potential to assist in copyright infringement."
While they're at it, why not get rid of the internet? All copyright infringemnt, mainly, happens on the internet. Or why not ban computers all together? Tons of potential there... even without the internet, computers can still potentially infringe copyrights. I see this as a bunch of little children wanting to leech the people from their money. Really, these are all actions that I would see a six year old deciding.
little sister: "If you don't let me watch the TV I'm telling mom!"
little brother: "No, You've already seen 6 shows in a row!"
little Sister: "Mom! Tommy's not letting me watch TV!"
little Brother, to sister: "Fuck you."
Hollywood is crying to the senate because they can't get the whole cookie. Stop it, you already own %90 of it. These people are diving in pools of money, what's having 3 lambourghini's as opposed to 4 going to hurt you? 3 isn't a nice round number like four? Aw, poor baby, he can't buy that awsome private jet he always wanted, he'll have to stick to standard one, assholes.
I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature so I can replicate.
You interface with a client called a "cashier", and you exchange a physical verifiction protocol referred to as "money". It's completely anonymous. This will entitle you to download your chosen file in hard copy form.
500% figures are made up on the spot.
Socialism.
You mean there's a way for me to make those god-awful IBM 'helper' programs stop working? Hurrah! For the thousandth time, I don't want to disable my CD burner by using your software, nor do I want you to try and fight with Windows over what wireless network my 802.11 card is associated with.
"Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
I just pulled SP2 down from MS's site at a steady 1060 KB/sec. Yes, those are correct units. No, that is not an extra zero. 4m18s total download time
;). I think there is a limit put on a per-IP basis.. but as you can see, that limit is quite high.
Connections at government research facilities are amazing
Actually, Blizzard used BitTorrent for the World Of Warcraft Beta. They seeded it, but it saved them a hell of a lot of bandwidth by doing it through torrent.
F/OSS OS (e.g. Linux, *BSD) ISOs makes two examples. We could probably stretch to include OO.org et al to make three.
Three examples of legitimate use. Three.
You PR guys will have to work overtime if you want to make P2P look like anything remotely resembling legitimate.
No, I am not saying P2P should be criminalized. I am saying that the overwhelming majority of P2P traffic appears to be illegitimate (so to speak), most often for reasons of copyright infringement.
Be honest: when people mention P2P networks, what do they describe as its best feature?
A) "Dude, you can get stuff for free!"
B) "Dude, you can download lots of stuff in a completely legal manner without infringing anyone's copyright!"
I believe we all know the answer to that one, even if certain groups conveniently ignore it.
And - as mentioned elsewhere in the thread - the SP2 EULA does prohibit redistribution e.g. via torrent.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Any more than KaZaA, e-Donkey, etc. ?
:
You could distribute Linux distributions, Windows updates, etc. through those as well - heck, they probably are. Didn't help them.
What matters to legislation, and/or the public eye, is the perceived legal supply&demand vs. the illegal supply&demand.
Let's transcend the box that is Slashdot filled with 'geeks', and go global. One way to do so is.. Google (dun dun dunnn)
http://www.google.com/search?q=torrent
And what would the public eye see ?
On 2 - SuprNova.org , known for its... uhm.. linux distribution.. erm.. yeah.
On 5 - TorrentReactor.net , listing such geeky things as "Collateral.SVCD.TELSES...errr oops?"
On 6 - torrent.youceff.com , with #12 in the top 20 "I.Robot.MPG.312.x.240", well at least it's a crappy resolution.
That's what any legislator is going to see, and seeing as how the pir^H^H^Hcopyright infringement proactivists do not have such powerful a lobby as the NRA, the notion of there being good uses to the medium which should weigh heavily against the abuses of the medium isn't going to fly quite as easily, even with Lessig's support (#9 on the google results).
Indeed, the other results appear to be legit - linux kernel distribution, for example.
However, compare the #8 result ( http://torrent.unix-ag.uni-kl.de:6969/ ) to the three listed before.
This page offers a total of 7 torrents, all for essentially the same application, in German and English varients.
The three pages listed before appear to offer torrent trackers for dozens if not hundreds (thousands?) of movies, tv shows, games and applications. Downloads of which I would challenge you to point out the majority being legitimate.
7 (at best) legit on one page.. vs dozens (hundreds, etc.) illicit on another.
I'm as against legislation banning these networks as the next guy (unless that next guy happens to be riaa/mpaa/bsa/etc.). However, I do think many users promoting bittorrent for its supposed legitimate reasons are being hypocritical in that a great deal of them will have used and will likely continue to use bittorrent for less legitimate (or illegitimate) means. Worse yet, perhaps, is that those who do not are fooling themselves saying that BitTorrent isn't like KaZaA or e-donkey, saying that its reason for existence is distributing download loads for such noble causes as linux kernel/distribution downloads - apparently blind to the reality that if that's what it was meant for, it has taken on a life of its own - and that life consists, for by far the most part, of illicit offerings.
I do dare say that if one wants to promote a P2P network as being for legitimate purposes, it would have to be (self-)policed to keep illicit material off of the network. At that point, you create more work than it's worth, open yourself up to litigation, etc.
I was previously a test lab tech at Dell and we did weeks of testing on SP1 with all of our software before it went public. Sounds like IBM got way behind. I wonder if outsourcing is to blame?
I use a Mac at work and Windows 2000 at home.
Therefore, I haven't installed the service pack.
Therefore, I haven't agreed to the end user license agreement.
So, ignoring the question of legality under copyright, by what legal theory am I bound by any garbage-- be it about redistribution, reverse engineering, or the existance of souls for turnips-- in a EULA that I have neither read nor agreed to? No meeting of minds, no agreement, no contract.
(On the other hand, I Am No Lawyer. And yes, I explicitly neglected the question of what would give me the right to redistribute the SP aside from the EULA.)
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
So what happens to Usenet then? Do the alt.bianries groups disapear?
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/torrent/
This is how you show P2P is legit. I downloaded Mandrake 10.0 official from this link, and shared it for a while. I had my QoS server set to throttle the bandwidth, as well as ABC Torrent configured to do so as well. This allowed me to seed the torrent for a period of time without really affecting the internet pipe I have.
I got Mandrake 10.0 official, the MD5's checked out, and the ISO's installed right over 10.0 community.
As far as the issue of getting more upload throughput than download, you need to set your upload rate lower than your download rate.
This is because many folks have a 3mb pipe down, but only a 128k up - so you get into an upload bottleneck from their perspective. Hopefully the next offical BT will have this issue handled internally.
Well, this is certainly a contender for the stupidest thing this week, but it's still early yet.
/.ers around here) wouldn't know what is and isn't legal if it bit them in the face.
17 USC 106 tells us that the copyright holder has the exclusive right to reproduce and distribute their works.
Downloading is reproduction. See MAI Systems v. Peak Computer, 991 F.2d 511 (9th Cir. 1993), Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 75 F. Supp. 2d 1290 (D. Utah 1999), and A&M Records v. Napster, 239 F.3d 1004 (9th Cir. 2001).
Uploading is distribution. See A&M Records v. Napster, 239 F.3d 1004 (9th Cir. 2001).
Does it matter that MS is letting people download this from MS for free? No. They, and they alone have the right to decide whether, by whom, when, where, and how, their works will be distributed or reproduced.
Does fair use apply? Almost certainly not. Three of the four factors are against it, and the fourth is basically a wash.
Does any other exemption in copyright law apply? No.
So basically this is a perfect example of P2P nets being used to break the law. And it also shows that many users (and many
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
You could probably get all of XP via torrent as well
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I can!
.... the legality is of course questionable as other have stated as the file is being distributed without the permission of the copyright holder ....
... i will be using the download on several machines not just the one ...) ... .... the bummer though is that i'm just starting to put together a new shuttle box and this means that everyone downloading this from them is likely to affect their other downloads :(
:) ).
I would expect that MS will consider at least doing one of the following:
1). [unlikely] embrace this and post official md5 hashes on the full sp2 download page so people can confirm their downloads.
2). [more likely] loudly proclaim how "evil hackers" are illegally distributing their code and hint that there may be trojans and viruses in it as its from an insecure (ha!) source.
Me, i downloaded it a few hours ago from the MS link given else where in this article, (and yes i followed their page
(oh and i'm giving it a while before instlling SP2 to allow other people to find the bugs
t
typical BT experience; "Tracker down"
To Apple, "Service Pack" is $129.
This is still just P2P being used to download software that many people have no legitimate right to run...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
... how long will it be before there is a version that will work on the 20 most common license numbers (or whatever it was MS finally decided on)?
Sleep is just a poor substitute for caffeine, anyway. -Bob Lehmann
I downloaded the one off of Bittorrent - and it WAS digitally signed, PLUS many MSDN and Windowsbeta subscribers posted the MD5 hashes on Neowin.net and several other sites, including Microsoft's SP2 newsgroups (as well as at least one MSFT employee verifying it) so on Saturday I knew I had it.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
as someone else has already mentioned, since the copyright on the file rests with the nice people at MS, the actual torrent is still illegal, if useful.
A better example would be the World of Warcraft beta, which is being distributed using bittorrent by Blizzard. Legal and Useful.
FGD 135
My bittorrent estimated completion time: 2 hours
/g
My Microsoft-hosted estimated completion time: 14 minutes.
So much for P2P helping "distribute files that are too large for centralized distribution to handle."
Ironic, isn't is?
o ft.com.nsatc.net is a nickname for download.microsoft.com.d4p.nett .com.d4p.net is a nickname for download.microsoft.com.georedirector.akadns.net
d ownload.microsoft.com.georedirector.akadns.net is a nickname for a767.ms.akamai.net ...
s .a kamai.net
andromeda: {5} host download.microsoft.com
download.microsoft.com is a nickname for download.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
download.micros
download.microsof
a767.ms.akamai.net has address 193.108.95.200
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=a767.m
Linux AkamaiGHost 1-Aug-2004 213.199.155.62 Microsoft London Internet Data Center
Poetic justice...
"Bannedmusic.org"? - check out the torrent links:
S P2-ENU-exe.torrent
http://bannedmusic.org/albums/WindowsXP-KB835935-
I mean - wow - that just exudes legitness doesn't it? Way to go guys! Hope you enjoy the lawsuit!
I'm assuming that your signed torrents are an option and we're free to rip, mix and leech our mp3s and movies as we do now?
I just finished the dnld (270mb!!!) and installed it. It takes a while to finish, but wow. It just LOOKS slick. New IE browser security, WU5 is pretty nice. However, AV and Firewall products will need a patch to get them into the new security center module.
n sf /docid/2004080212383739?Open&src=con_web_nam&tpre= us&tdir=
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/tsgeninfo.
^
L----Remove the spaces...(should be after the "&tpre=" and ".nsf")
Didn't see one for mcafee. They might push it via their update, or might update pages later *shrug*. SO far, DAE shows no problems (default mode is to control Windows only). Haven't tested Windows firewall yet, but it has an intelligent access control box.
Odd fact: My proc (Ath64 3000+) shows as a PAE device. What is PAE, and why haven't I seen it on my sys specs before???
Lock and load those downloads, folks. It looks good for now!!!
Let's see, torrent gives me 40kB/s down, 60kB/s up after 10 minutes.
Downloading from MS within windows with some multi-server downloading app: 415kB/s immediately (my connection's limit).
How encouraging.
I'll stick to torrents for pr0n thouth.
Hopefully MS will supply a version thay won't trash your PC soon. Luckily I have a spare PC to help with the recovery...
All of a sudden I have tonnes of bad files that chkdsk finds.
I'd rather wait. If there's some bad stuff, it'll be fixed before my setup is hosed.
Remember they are being paid off by 'the media' to support these draconian anti digital-freedom laws that are being proposed/enacted.. I don't really think they will care that there are legal uses as that dosent line their pockets.....
Nice idea though, and worth trying to tell them, but I wont hold my breath that any of those idiots listen.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
It won't be available on Windows update until Aug 25th. So get it now.
There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
"DO NOT CLICK DOWNLOAD IF YOU ARE UPDATING JUST ONE COMPUTER:"
I would never download the "smaller, more appropriate download" and nobody should. It doesn't matter if people have broadband or not, they should always download the patch and not something that will get your computer connected to then sit there until MS thinks they are finished.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
There is nothing resembling a majority opinion on the copyright issue here. No one has demonstrated reasonably, what a reasonable person is on this issue. A reasonable person might conclude that a small amount of restriction on the right to own a gun is acceptable to keep insane people from owning one. A reasonable person might think that 20 years is acceptable for certain white collar crime.
But what does a reasonable person now think about something as subjective as "inducing copyright violations?" To my neighbor that might be Kazaa. To me that might be a company pushing a MP3 player specifically designed to break any commercial DRM system. To my parents that might be all MP3 players.
I say that a reasonable person is subjective here because the topic itself is so ill-defined.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Thanks for the link. I'm gonna go download SP2 from download.microsoft.com right now. I don't own a copy of XP, but someday I might pick one up. And maybe I'll download another copy for my friend, he uses XP.
;)
You guys are right, this is much faster than P2P.
Given the limited bandwidth of most users to begin with, what advantage is there to having 10 separate sources for the content in the first place? At some point (the limit of your download bandwidth) your pipe gets choked, no matter how many different locations the content is served from.
At a place like MS, with the aforementioned HUGE outbound bandwidth, Torrent should be of little or NO advantage, timewise.
The real advantage of this technology is when you are the publisher with limited resources to pay your hosting service for per/GB delivered (approx 3.00USD/GB).
Has anyone done a side-by-side with known bandwidth inbound?
Will this stand-alone installer work if you already have SP2 RC2 installed?
Why the hell is this modded Informative?!
As others have said:
WindowsXP-KB835935-SP2-ENU.exe, MD5: 59a98f181fe383907e520a391d75b5a7, size: 278,927,592 bytes
I downloaded the file from Microsoft, and the MD5 checks.
" Don't make yourself look like fools defending them"
We wouldn't do that; it would take the spotlight away from you!
Not that this in any way puts BitTorrent in a bad light: First of all, Akamai is a commercial system, and Microsoft pays a lot of money to use it. Akamai is itself a system that scales statically, by providing fixed caches located around the globe; it must be manually maintained in order to scale.
BitTorrent, on the other hand, is free, and is built on a pool of dynamic caches (ie., seeders), allowing it to scale indefinitely. BitTorrent's seeding system has weaknesses, but it's one of the best solutions so far.
Wbat a load of crap. The only reason this service pack breaks certain apps is if the app is badly written, buggy, or makes use of buggy windows system calls, or if the app makes use of TCP/IP to connect to some other system. Its quite simple to allow the latter apps to pierce the built-in firewall, which negates that problem. As for buggy apps, they should simply be fixed. It's good to see Microsoft taking a pro-active approach to fixing their system's bugs and security flaws. Personally, I'd rather break a few apps than not have the flaws fixed.
Downloading from that server with sFTP over a public WiFi connection, I'm now pulling 640Kb/s.
I should use BitTorrent WHY?
You probably didn't have any open ports on the router to allow people to download from you, therefore BT throttled your download. Which is admittedly a problem for many people who either don't have access or don't know how to configure routers they sit behind.
You all strive to point out examples when P2P is beneficial. Don't you think this is troubling when legal use is the exception, not the norm? I have issues with P2P apps such as kazah because it's much more difficult to track users sharing illegally. At least with Bittorrent, there is a central server that can be held accountable and shut down, or websites that distribute torrents, such as supernova.org. I don't think it's unreasonalbe at all to ban P2P applications that follow the kazah model.
Agreed. As someone who rated the original post Informative, I have to point out that my moderation was neither a statement about MS operating systems (good or bad), nor was it trying to imply that IBM found a problem with SP2, I simply found the information and link informative. Nothing more.
:)
Why did I mod it informative??? Because it was. Would you have preferred Interesting? It was that too.
...trust a link on a web page that said:
let us do it for you. [microsoft.com] ?!
When "it" means accessing your computer over the net and changing settings in your OS.
why ???
How would it help the zeelot linux drones to download sp2???
microsft has enough bandwidth for evrone on this planet and then some.
lose != loose
Will they incorporate a BT client into IE? :)
Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
Speaking of which, has Windows Server 2003 had _any_ service packs yet?
Speaking of which, has Windows Server 2003 had _any_ service packs yet?
Nope, just a collection of individual patches on windowsupdate. However it sure needs some work. We're having some pretty severe memory leak issues with it, requiring a weekly reboot on a 4GB server and also a problem where opening up a tcp socket, using it for a while, then closing it, over and over in a loop many tens of thousands of times will exhaust the system of sockets. Even though they are being relinquished back to the O/S, the system isn't ackowledging the release. We never had this problem on NT, W2K, or even on XP. Just 2003 server.
...from the genuine MS website. I only have 1.5Mbps T-1 speed but surprisingly got full thruput for the whole duration. The MD5 says it's legit, and am posting this from a newly updated XP box. Seems to be working fine so far.
"Ok, I confess, it was me. I shared a copy with my friend. You know owe me the $0.05 in bandwidth costs that I saved you."
The item being copied is valued at $0. How can MS show damages to sue over?
Free isn't a non-issue in civil court, which is where copyright law will stay until some super DMCA makes it a felony.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
It's funny to see how "The Inquirer" says: "The number of downloads will be limited to 2.5 million a day". The SP2 is 266 meg, so 2.5 millions downloads is actually 634 terabytes, which IMHO is a lot ! Ok yes there might be more need than that, but that is hell of a lot, and a normal user don't download service pack the day it cames out, if ever ! 634 Terabytes ought to be enough for all slashdot windows users !
What are the min specs required to install this service pack? Quad Xeon? I can reinstall windows xp in less time it takes to apply "patches". Is it patching the entire O/S?
My favorite part of your comment:
"or if the app makes use of TCP/IP to connect to some other system"
I mean, just read it. Isn't that hilarious? Where have you been living?
That would be STONKIN' amounts of bandwidth. I only have a measly T-1, but got the full 1.5Mbps (roughly 150MB/s) for the entire half hour it took for me to download it.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if all day Tuesday 10-AUG-2004 that the entire rest of the Internet in the USA is one huge cyber traffic jam on the old Information Superhighway as all the lemmings out there realize that the big SP2 file is out there to download now and they all start downloading it simultaneously..
Did anyone notice that on the linked sites that the only people taking money from hollywood were deamoncrats?
projects @ http://spectechnologies.net
There's a big flaw in logic that strictly applies copyright law without looking at the situation. Yes, reproduction and distribution rights belong to the copyright holder...but they can be extended and modified if the copyright holder wishes. The download on MS's site that has been linked earlier is specifically for people who need to install SP2 on multiple computers. So tomorrow at work I'll download SP2 and install it on dozens of computers at my work from one download to save bandwidth. And this is exactly what MS intended people to do with that file, they even say you better not be downloading it for just one computer. IANAL, but I'd be willing to bet MS would have one hell of a time suing anyone for redistributing service packs since they encourage that very thing. Laws aren't black and white, and this isn't like someone setting up a torrent of the latest Britney Spears song.
I downloaded it in Firefox, which last time I checked doesn't run ActiveX. So I think it's pretty safe to say there's no serial check going on, or at least they aren't trying very hard.
Rock over London, Rock on Chicago. Wheaties: Breakfast of Champions.
"assume that because the program is from a corporation, then it's major use must be legal."
Yay for another dose of retardism.
select "Frequently Requested Software Files"
It would seem the answer is NO, unless you ask for permission, possibly in writing.
Mind you I have seen service pack's on magazine cover CD's before.
09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
The name you were thinkin of?
I'm sorry if I haven't offended anyone
I've gotten 800-900 KB/s from tracker.netdomination.org when downloading gentoo isos. I've got similiar rates from other sources as well. I do get your point however, the normal rates for me lies in the neighburhood of 100 KB/s, which isn't as great...
IBM had months to update their apps.. What didn't happen?
e.g. http://filerush.com
and http://linuxtorrent.com/
both very usefull
---
I still miss my ex-wife, but my aim is getting better.
You're knowingly trafficking in illegal goods. News server providers have been getting away with under the Common Carrier clause, but it doesn't apply to you. You would be considered a partner in crime along with the initial distributor.
If you do NOT know what you're trading around, as is the case with e.g. Freenet, you stand a much better chance of that defense. But even then it is very much a legal gray area. Operating a cache is typically allowed under fair use, but when the "cache" becomes the source itself (i.e. long after the original source is gone), it is more fishy.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
You people have absolutely no concept of law, do you?
Just because it isn't defined doesn't automatically make it illegal.
Take a closer look at the law
Notice this particular is only broken if there is any fraudulent activity or misuse of the material in question. Since this is an OS update available FOR FREE (meaning they don't profit from this, nor can they lose any profit from the distribution of this) on their public site.
The only time that this would be ILLEGAL is if the setup is modified or someone is making a profit.
Outside of that, Microsoft can put all the warnings and disclaimers on their site not to distribute it, law can (and will be) misinterpreted, but IT IS NOT FUCKING ILLEGAL.
You people are smart (well, some of you, anyway), so get your heads out of your fucking asses and learn something for once.
Surprise! It's illegal.
Sure enough. Just noticed a recent addition to Microsoft's WinXP2 download site:
Please Note:
The Microsoft Download Center site at the URL above is your only authorized web source for downloading a licensed copy of Windows XP Service Pack 2. To report a website offering unlicensed copies of Windows XP SP2 for download, please send e-mail to: piracy@microsoft.com or visit http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/ReportingUs.mspx.
BE honest: When people mention OSS, what do they describe as the best feature?
A) "Dude, you can get stuff for free!"
B) "Dude, you can download lots of stuff in a completely legal manner without infringing anyone's copyright!"
We're all simpletons.
paintball
"Breathing air is illegal, unless you're a duly appointed officer of the law."
paintball
Did you even read the sentence after it? Like I said, the whole TCP/IP problem is easily rectified by clicking "yes, let this application access the network" when Windows prompts you, or to go into the Security Manager app and give that application access. Its a simple fix for a simple problem. Its far better to give this sort of warning and prompt to enable than to allow any app at all access to TCP/IP.
the speeds are blazing off the site... the p2p initiative needs to find a better target, cause MS has the bandwidth... i got the file in 7 minutes @ 600 KB/s ... almost maxed out my 5000/800 connection
For those who are new to MD5: Here is one place to find the MD5 software.
Ok, Microsoft gave the torrent guy a takedown notice. Let's reward them by following their wishes and downloading the service pack from their server only.... right now.... all at once....
There are unsigned bands out there who've put their music up to be shared on p2p networks in order to have it heard by a larger audiance than they could get otherwise. This is good not only for the bands, but also for those of us who want to listen to music other than what the music companies decide to put on the airwaves. Similarly, I imagine some independant film makers might do the same thing.
Personally, I would be happy if they removed all the copywritten material off of the p2p networks, it would make the stuff that the music and television industries don't air easier to find. Tearing the networks down however strikes me as a method to limit freedom of the press to those who can afford one. I'll take my entertainment uncensored thank you.
why not try http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q= %22Index+of%2F%22+WindowsXP-KB835935-SP2-ENU.exe instead?
I like the update.missouri.edu link, quite fast
Which would be why threatened to sue their ass off, so they had to stop.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating