Palm Finally Announces SD WiFi Card

Estranged42 writes "After years of waiting, Palm announced today that it will release an SD 802.11b card for its Tungsten T3 and Zire 72 handhelds. This comes after years of anticipation and speculation about this card ever happening. It should be arriving sometime in September for $129. I think I'm still looking forward to getting one. The Register and others are carrying the story."

Comments

still using palms

[Sv-Manowar]

I can't see the advantage of using a palm over using a small notebook (12" ibook or powerbook for example) - espiecally for browsing using Wifi cards as shown here. A compacted and hard to read screen compared to a full internet browser. Surely the space it takes up is made up for in usability nowdays.

Re:still using palms

[AKAImBatman]

Except that your PowerBook supports 802.11a and 802.11g. According to the blurb, this card only supports 802.11b. I wonder why they'd choose a (relatively) dead standard like that?

Re:still using palms

[Klar]

I think in most cases a 12" notebook would work better. But, palm's are useful if you need something really small that could fit in your pocket and not have to carry a 4lbs small notebook. Palm's are great for keeping track of names, apointments, general information and taking notes while on the run.

Re:still using palms

[Kenja]

"I can't see the advantage of using a palm over using a small notebook (12" ibook or powerbook for example)"

You must have REALY big pants if you can fit an iBook in your pocket.

Re:still using palms

[Sv-Manowar]

it isnt really that hard to carry a 4lb laptop in a bag is it ?

Re:still using palms

[Planesdragon]

* cost of the model
* power consumption
* familiarity
* ease of use

For $1,000 (the cost of a 12" iBook) I can purchase new palms with Wifi cards for myself, my wife, and an extra just for the fun of it.

Even if the iBook had equal power consumption on all components (which is unilkely, given screen size alone), a single palm still uses far less kw/H than the iBook for any given task. Solid-state memory and an always-on OS eliminate both boot-up time and HD seek.

A lot of people can use their palms as easily as a computer. For some folks, it's even easier.

And, of course, if I want to have a palm in the TV room just for random web lookups, I don't need to configure an ibook or leave it out. When i want to pull up the data from a website, I can simply turn on the palm, click on the web-browser program (which can even be bound to a buttom) and go right to the site.

Re:still using palms

[Anonymous Coward]

Just in time so you will need to upgrade to 802.11g in 4 months and 802.11n in 8 months.

Re:still using palms

[realdpk]

SDIO doesn't provide a lot of power. That's been the biggest stumbling block to date for getting WiFi cards on Palms.

I'm disappointed that, apparently, it won't work on other models such as the Treo 600.

Re:still using palms

[Rude Turnip]

Given the size of a Palm device and the situations in which you would need Wifi with such a device (ie on the go, not doing anything multimedia intensive), it makes perfect sense to go with a more affordable solution.

Re:still using palms

[brufleth]

Well a 12" ibook or powerbook is much harder to fit in a pocket and in fact will probably require that you carry an additional bag. If you're travelling by air you might already have your two carry ons so rather than having to check a bag someone can just slip this into their pocket and they can still do their web stuff. I have a laptop but I can't bring it with me when ever and where ever I go because it isn't pocket friendly.

Re:still using palms

[meme_police]

No, 802.11b and 802.11g. And 802.11b is FAR from dead. 802.11g FOSS support is pathetic.

Re:still using palms

[CyberDave]

Bzzzzzz...wrong. Methinks you got your As and Bs confused.

The PowerBook (or, more correctly, Apple's AirPort Extreme MiniPCI card) supports 802.11b and 802.11g.

802.11g is backwards compatible with 802.11b (despite what I overheard some idiot salesman say to a customer at Best Buy once). You can use 802.11b cards with 802.11g access points and 802.11g cards with 802.11b access points. I do this al lthe time. Part of the reason this is possible is because 802.11b and 802.11g operate in the 2.4 GHz range. The backwards-compatibility is also built into the 802.11g spec (IIRC).

802.11a, on the other hand, is 54 Mbps (like 802.11g), but operates in the 5 GHz range and is not compatible with 802.11b or 802.11g.

Some manufacturers make combo cards that work with all three protocols. Apple is not one of them.

CyberDave

Re:still using palms

[AKAImBatman]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. :-)

Re:still using palms

[hal2814]

My Palm is a $150 alarm clock. About the only thing I use it for are the audible reminers that I can set up timers for. Oh yeah, I also play Sokoban a lot on it. This would not be feasible with a laptop.

Re:still using palms

[IronChef]

As long as you are carrying that bag around, you may as well get a 15" or 17" laptop instead of that 12".

Meanwhile I will be carrying my PocketPC in, uh, my pocket, and Googling up product reviews while I am shopping. Sure, the browser sucks, but it gets the job done.

Did I mention it fits in my pocket?

Re:still using palms

[Anonymous Coward]

it isnt really that hard to carry a 4lb laptop in a bag is it ?

It is if you don't want a 4lb laptop, or a bag in your hands, or a backpack on your back, etc. Some people like to travel light and don't need a full laptop...

Re:still using palms

[Carnildo]

No, but it means you've got a four-pound bag to carry around.

Re:still using palms

[stratjakt]

Anyone who can't see that a PDA and a laptop computer are two different devices, suited to two different tasks, probably isnt worth arguing with.

Coming up with anecdotes to prove that PDAs can be useful is a pointless excercise. The PDA market has exploded, obviously enough people out there can see the uses.

Re:still using palms

[atrizzah]

It lies mostly in that you don't have to boot it up, you can fit it in your pocket, and it's damn convenient for PIM type uses

Re:still using palms

[Carnildo]

Mine's a $99 password vault. I've given up on trying to remember all the passwords, PINs, and access codes I need.

Re:still using palms

[willy134]

And the new (proposed) n standard is backward compatible with both b and g. They even say it speeds up the b and g network....
We will have to see about that.

Re:still using palms

[RevAaron]

I had an iBook and a wifi-equipped PDA. I never took the iBook with me, even when I was without a PDA. But these days, I use the PDA as the computer. Mind you, I don't use something with a crappy 320x320 or 240x320 screen as on a PalmOne or PocketPC. VGA, or in the case of the Sigmarion 3 800x480. Enough for me.

An iBook is too big. Unless I can fit it in my pocket- even big cargo pant pockets- it's too big.

Re:still using palms

[ePhil_One]

No, but it means you've got a four-pound bag to carry around.

Not to mention the bag itself weighs 1 pound(total 5 pounds, assuming he's not also carrying the power adapter), will have to wait while it powers up from sleep, will have trouble balancing it in one hand while typing with the other, has to navigate a general purpose interface, have bigger concerns of it being stolen, etc. etc.

Re:still using palms

[timeOday]

I guess I'll chime in, since I have a WiFi-enabled palm device (Sony TH55) and a 12" laptop and I don't think you do.

A laptop is not a PDA. I take my PDA everywhere and reference it many times per day. In fact I rarely leave home without it, since I always end up regretting it when I do. I'm not taking a laptop to the hardware store just in case I have to jot something down.

As to your second point, I have to agree that the WiFi, camera, sound recorder, and mp3 playback are only of secondary interest compared to the to-do list, calendaring, and memo apps.

That said, half-VGA (320x480) is somewhat usable for web browsing. In fact when I browse slashdot on it, I don't use the special palm-formatted version because it's too sparse. This may be the ultimate toilet-entertainment device, not that I would ever do such a thing.

But besides that, WiFi is good for quickly, wirelessly transferring documents and software to the Palm, and the battery-life hit is surprisingly not that bad. I can open palmgear download a zip file, and install apps without using a PC at all. Bluetooth is comparable, except it doesn't work from anywhere in my home.

I'm torn on having WiFi in the SD slot rather than built-in, as it is on the Sony. On the one hand, I only use the WiFi now and then, so why carry it all the time? On the other hand, it doesn't seem to add much bulk, and I'm already using the SD slot for memory expansion, so having to take that out would render the Palm only partually functional.

Re:still using palms

[jcostantino]

The biggest draw to handheld PDAs over laptops is that they weigh next to nothing and you can use them one-handed. I can use my Inspiron laptop on my hand but it weighs a ton compared to a PDA. I love the 1024x768 screen but the trade-off is portability for size. For example, you can buy a portable barcode reader and use a handheld as a data collection device without lugging around a ton of stuff and input directly into a local database or wirelessly to a remote one via Coldfusion over the web. The total weight of the equipment would be under a couple pounds and in some cases, you can get a barcode reader for a CF or SD card slot and not even have a tethered reader.

Re:still using palms

[Morgahastu]

People who use wifi on their hand helds use it mostly for email, data access and for the occasional google. No one sits down at their desk and surfs the net on their hand held.

Re:still using palms

[Anonymous Coward]

stay away from my wife.

Re:still using palms

[Anonymous Coward]

Tablet PC!!!!

Re:still using palms

[timts]

why palm "invents" it? sandisk released its SD 256M + wifi card for MSRP $130.
also palm has announced it wont release any new palm based product, right?

Re:still using palms

[StalinsNotDead]

You should carry two of those because as a wise philosopher (Jack Handey) once said:

Always carry two bags of something when you walk around. That way, if anybody says, "Hey, can you give me a hand?" You can say, "Sorry, got these bags."

Re:still using palms

[Anonymous Coward]

With an iBook or Powerbook, it will have woken from sleep in the time it takes you to open the lid fully and get the hand you were opening it with back onto the keyboard.

Re:still using palms

[Malc]

IIRC, using a b device on a g network slows the whole network down to b speeds. Compatibility with a price!

Re:still using palms

[Cat_Byte]

It needs bluetooth so I can control the new 12 gram flying robot.

Re:still using palms

[(54)T-Dub]

I've heard that one b device on a g network downgrades the entire thing to b which just seems silly to me. Any input?

Re:still using palms

[JAD lifter]

I can't see the advantage of using a palm over using a small notebook (12" ibook or powerbook for example)

Well, cost is obviously a factor. I can get a nice PDA for less $300.00. The same cannot be said for a 12" ibook.
Plus that ibook won't fit in your pocket the way a PDA will. People just say "carry the ibook in a bag." Well I don't want to carry a fscking bag with me wherever I go! Plus while I'm standing on a bus or in the subway I can pull out my PDA and mess with it for a few minutes and slip it back in my pocket. An ibook would just be too unwieldy to unzip the bag, pull out the ibook and open it up and wait for it to boot and preferably find a place to sit with it because I assume that using an ibook standing up is awkward...etc.

I like ibooks. I like PDA's. They are just two completely diferent devices suited to different tasks. An ibook gives you a lot of portability. A PDA gives you a hell of a lot more portability with a much cheaper price tag but with a reduced feature set. With the addition of things like WiFi and keyboards (ala the Sharp Zaurus) I find PDA's looking much more attractive.

Re:still using palms

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you just use Gator's eWallet? It's a lot cheaper.

Re:still using palms

[rpdillon]

Hmmm...802.11g is not backwards compatible with 802.11b.

I have a zaurus, laptop, and desktop all wirelessly linked to a LinkSys WRT54G. My desktop is b/g compatible as is my laptop. But my Zaurus uses a Ambicom CF wireless card, 802.11b only.

Unless I put my router in "mixed" mode or "b" only, my Zaurus cannot see it it all. So unless there is an implementation error in either the router or the AmbiCom card, g is NOT backwards compatible with b.

You may be thinking that because you have a 802.11g router that it isn't implementing 802.11b, but as is the case with mine, its actually the router that is backwards compatible (not the protocol), since it is allowing both protocols, not ONLY 802.11g.

Re:still using palms

[Malc]

AvantGo + the Globe and Mail is a good combo too on the Palm - I use it when I'm away from home and don't have access to my daily delivery.

Re:still using palms

[Moofie]

Well, I'm never without my Man Bag, and my 12" Powerbook fits in it beautifully. It takes all of three seconds to wake from sleep, and I don't know why a "general purpose interface" would be a problem.

And I'm not too worried about it getting stolen. I'm big and scary. : )

Re:still using palms

[Anonymous Coward]

About you only valid point is the price. Of course the power consumption of a Palm is lower, but the battery capacity is also much lower. According to reviews you're lucky if you get 4 hours of continuous usage on a T3 without Bluetooth, let alone Wifi. An iBook will surpass that easility. And many people rarely turn off their iBook, they just shut the lid and it's up in 3 seconds when you open it. And as soon as you need to type anything or view a page with not-too-sparse formatting, a laptop is much more convenient than a Palm.

Re:still using palms

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually it is an ibook in my pocket

Re:still using palms

[Xibby]

Warehouse. Palm with intigrated barcode scanner & 802.11b can be used to find inventory, check in inventory, track inventory, etc, without going back to the computer.

Ticketing. Venues around the Target Center and the Metrodome in Minneapols already use palms with built in barcode scanners to scan your tickets instead of tearing your ticket. Add in 802.11b and they could do things like...I dunno resell your ticket if you don't pass through the turnstyle before the first quarter of the Timberwolves or Vikings game is finished, or after the first couple innings of a. Would be a great way to generate extra cash if a season ticket holder doesn't show up.

Wardriving & Wireless Security audits. A laptop handheld is much easier to carry than a laptop...espically when you're also lugging around a large spiked LART.

Most day to day Palm users don't need it. But obviously, there are uses for it out there.

Re:still using palms

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody on slashdot is stupid enough to use anything from gator so go away, you stupid astroturfing troll.

Re:still using palms

[karnal]

I'm never without my Man Bag either, but I don't think it (or the objects in it) weigh 4 pounds.

Unless I were to brag.

Re:still using palms

[Anonymous Coward]

Get out of the 80s, son, and out of those stone-washed, painted on jeans..

And cut your hair!

Re:still using palms

[ncc74656]

SDIO doesn't provide a lot of power. That's been the biggest stumbling block to date for getting WiFi cards on Palms.

SDIO 802.11b cards have been around for a year or so already...Google turns up a bunch of links to products and sellers. The sticking point has been a lack of support for these cards on Palm OS devices.

I'm disappointed that, apparently, it won't work on other models such as the Treo 600.

The supported-products list is disturbing. I have to wonder why it wouldn't work with the Tungsten T or T2, or if the marketdroid who put together the press release only bothered to list current models that work. It's almost enough to make you want to just say "fsck Palm" and switch over to WinCE (or whatever Microsoft is calling it this month)...no small move when you've been using Palms for the past six or seven years.

Re:still using palms

[Moofie]

Dude, if you can fit a computer in there, how do you buy pants?!

Re:still using palms

[Anonymous Coward]

have you been in a hosiptal lately?

What do you think doctors prefer taking along - a laptop/tablet pc or a palm/pda?

PDA's are small and are useful for certain apps.

Re:still using palms

[SeinJunkie]

I believe it depends on the wireless router you're using. I remember reading a comparison of D-Link's DI-624 vs a Microsoft router, and the D-Link was able to somehow separate the traffic so that it was not slowed by "b" devices on the same network.

Re:still using palms

[bhima]

Actually the one killer app for me I sort of hacked together myself. I'm a book collector some times I forget I already have it and buy it again now I keep the list on my palm and look it up, what I'd really like is an SD barcode reader!

Re:still using palms

[Carnildo]

Why don't you just use Gator's eWallet? It's a lot cheaper.

Maybe if it ran on a PDA without a network connection, I'd replace Keyring for PalmOS.

Not.

Re:still using palms

[NanoGator]

"I can't see the advantage of using a palm over using a small notebook (12" ibook or powerbook for example) - espiecally for browsing using Wifi cards as shown here. A compacted and hard to read screen compared to a full internet browser. Surely the space it takes up is made up for in usability nowdays."

Nobody said it was for everybody. Frankly, though, you'd have a lot easier time seeing it if you were trying to find it. Laptops just can't go everywhere. They don't 'instant on'. Their battery life is HORRIBLE compared to a Palm or PocketPC. The form factor itself is a huge nuisance. Even with something as small as a Powerbook, those things feel like they're just WAITING to jump out of your lap.

There are times where it'd be handy to have a small handheld unit to grab the latest news headlines. During commercials, for example. You're not going to drag your laptop out for that. WIth the Palm, though, you hit 'on' and click a bookmark. Quick check of email? No problem. Heck, even log on and get your instant messages. Piece of cake. Maybe I won't do hard core research on it, but I have times where I don't want to get up and go to my desk just to get a bit of info off the net. It's an entertainment device. Nothing wrong with that.

I ended up just getting a Tablet PC. I miss the instant on etc, but it does boot quickly, has long battery life, and the slate mode with a stylus is much easier on the lap when there's no typing to do. If I didn't get this, I'd be using a PDA instead, and quite happy about it. Sure it's limited. BFD, it's still small and couch-surfable.

Again, it's not for everybody, but come on, how come some of these possibilities didn't cross your mind?

Re:still using palms

[NanoGator]

"Palm's are great for keeping track of names, apointments, general information and taking notes while on the run."... and bathroom reading.

Re:still using palms

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

I can't see the advantage of using a palm over using a small notebook

Then we're lucky your job doesn't involve picking which products should be taken to market.

Re:still using palms

[yog]

It probably doesn't work with TT and T2 for the same reasons that the existing Sandisk product doesn't: the power requirements of the card. It's a bit of an engineering problem because the TT and T2 SDIO sockets apparently were not designed for this kind of use, and Sandisk has been laboring to get their wifi card to work with even the Zire 71.

You can read more about the Sandisk situation here.

It's not really news that a wifi card has been released for a limited selection of Palm handhelds, since a product's already out there from Sandisk.

An interesting news story would be an interview with Palm executives on why the heck it's taken so long and why support for wifi is so limited. One can guess that they're committing the typical blunder of trying not to hurt sales of the Tungsten C, which has built in wifi. I wish the people who ran Handera would take over Palm (or PalmOne, or whatever they're calling themselves this month).

I hate the fact that I'm going to have to consider an iPaq for my next handheld because I've lost faith in Palm to deliver great products. I prefer PalmOS to the Windows Pocket thingy. Say, maybe it's time to take another look at Zaurus

Re:still using palms

[Rasta Prefect]

I can't see the advantage of using a palm over using a small notebook (12" ibook or powerbook for example) - espiecally for browsing using Wifi cards as shown here. A compacted and hard to read screen compared to a full internet browser. Surely the space it takes up is made up for in usability nowdays.

Call me when you get a 12" ibook that combines with my phone and clips to my belt.

Re:still using palms

[los furtive]

And bathroom solitaire.

Re:still using palms

[IANAAC]

SDIO doesn't provide a lot of power.

How does the power compare to, say, a socket low-power CF card? On my Zaurus I went through a couple different cards before I settled on the socket CF because it pretty much doubled my battery life compared to all the other cards.
I know the zaurus doesn't handle SDIO cards for networking, but it'd be interesting to see what the power consumption differences were.

Re:still using palms

[SillyNickName4me]

Logging in and having the light version enabled in your user preferences takes out a lot of the junk.. makes it a lot nicer for small devices without the extreme terseness of the palm version.

Re:still using palms

[SillyNickName4me]

> There are times where it'd be handy to have a small handheld unit to grab the latest news headlines. During commercials, for example. You're not going to drag your laptop out for that. WIth the Palm, though, you hit 'on' and click a bookmark. Quick check of email? No problem.

And just install omniremote or whatever and you have a nice programmable remote as well (yeah.. a laptop can do that as well.. but its kinda unwieldy)

Re:still using palms

[harikiri]

A thai restraunt I have visited recently uses some sort of palm device with a wireless link for taking orders. Beats the heck out of trying to interpret badly written orders back in the kitchen.

But apart from the "wow" factor, I'm not entirely sure I can see the cost justification, although if it all tied back into a central database for billing and monitoring customer trends over time, that would be useful (compared to manual data entry at the end of each day).

Re:still using palms

[Jhan]

This is a late reply, so maybe you won't read this, but still... How about the Socket Communications SDIO Scan Card?

Re:still using palms

[timeOday]

Now posting from the TH55 in "light" mode, and its very nice! Thanks for the tip!

Re:still using palms

[SillyNickName4me]

My pleasure :)

I use it in 'normal' browsers as well btw.. after discovering it, the normal look of slashdot kinda drives me nuts ;)

Re:still using palms

[bhima]

I also had just found that. For some reason I thought this was worth about 100 euros, well I guess not.

I hope the phallic protrusion fits on my iPaq!

$129?

[benzapp]

I bought a Linksys one for my WinCE PDA over two years ago for half that.

What a rip off.

Re:$129?

[polecat_redux]

Are you sure the adapter you bought wasn't a CF card? I don't believe Linksys ever made an SD wireless adapter (which are generally more expensive).

But yeah, no big deal really. Wireless adapters have been available for Pocket PC-based PDA's for a couple of years now, and personally, I see the Palms as inferior to Pocket PCs.

Re:$129?

[StevenHenderson]

I bet you at least $50 of this cost is for the little circle on the package that says "PalmOne"

Re:$129?

[Roadmaster]

I guess they gave you a discount for having to put up with such a hideous operating system, huh?

Re:$129?

[RevAaron]

You've been able to get wireless adaptors or CE and Newton OS PDAs for quite a while, well over a couple years. Not to nitpick... But even before 802.11x.

Palms are inferior to PocketPCs. They do less, the OS is less powerful. That said, it does more than enough for a lot of people. I have had many PDAs- Newtons, Linux running Zaurii, PocketPCs and vanilla WinCE PDAs... And one Palm OS Sony Clie NX70V. The Clie is nice, as long as I don't expect too much from it. Sure, I can buy a CF wifi card for it, but like this, there is only the one $100 Sony model I can buy. Other CF cards won't work with the Clie. But even if I got the Clie tricked out with a wifi card, it's still not that useful, not as useful as my Newton 2100 was with a WaveLAN card, Zaurus C760, Jornada 720 or Sigmarion 3 were- which were all real computers, though just small ones.

Re:$129?

[benzapp]

Honestly, I wasn't aware that SD adapters were that much more expensive. It is of course a CF card. But considering how long ago I got, I figured there must have been some improvement in the miniaturization of the components.

11b or not 11b

[grunt107]

Or, put another way: Why not the faster 11g?

Using the faster protocol would appeal the power users, and the early adopters that go for the hi-speed buzzwords.

Re:11b or not 11b

[DarkMavis]

It's probably due to power restrictions. My guess is that the amount of power needed to run 802.11g is what's keeping it off the Palm and PocketPC right now. Can anyone verify this?

Re:11b or not 11b

[Klar]

I guess it might appeal to people more, but honestly how much of a difference is b vs g going to make on a palm, are you gunna be downloading large files onto your 128mb memory card? IMO b should be fast enough for anyone using a palm.

Re:11b or not 11b

[CommanderData]

Probably because the Palm's SD slot doesn't support I/O transfer rates anywhere near that speed. IIRC, it cannot even use 802.11b to it's full potential.

Re:11b or not 11b

[SirStanley]

What would you possibly be doing with your Handheld that would require that much bandwidth?

Re:11b or not 11b

[entropy1980]

The reason it took so long to come out was problems with power consumption(to much draw on the anemic Palm SD slots), we are probably a year or so away from a 11g handheld.

Re:11b or not 11b

[FreezerJam]

are you gunna be downloading large files onto your 128mb memory card?

Absolutely not, because you had to take the memory card out to put the WiFi card in...

Re:11b or not 11b

[Anonymous Coward]

Most "SDIO" interfaces are actually SPI and I believe this is the case for the palm devices. There is no speed up from B to G on SPI. In my company we have done experiments and it is VERY difficult, if not impossible, to even get to the 11mbit/sec that B provides.

Even with true SDIO, you would need to be using the 4bit mode at the maximum clock speed to achieve G data rates and I don't believe any of the handhelds are capable of this. Currently G modems on handhelds are just a marketing ploy.

Re:11b or not 11b

[FauxPasIII]

> Or, put another way: Why not the faster 11g?

Well, I seriously doubt that the processor of the device (or the SD-bus for that matter) could push enough bits to make a
difference. However, even at 11mb rate, there's another good reason to do the 11g protocol: access points running in pure
G mode. If you have a G router and you enable the backwards-compatibility for 11b, you cut your throughput almost in half.

Re:11b or not 11b

[Fweeky]

I use CF as main storage for my iPAQ; for me that was the entire point of getting a SD WiFi card.

Re:11b or not 11b

[Bastian]

I imagine part of it is that 11g hits some diminishing returns on a handheld - you increase the cost for a device that really doesn't need a whole lot of speed. You aren't going to fit a very large file on your handheld, and the types of websites that benefit from a very fast connection aren't going to display well on a Palm sized screen. Add to that that I'm not even sure that a PalmOS web browser could render fast enough to handle the speed of 11g. I'm sure there are some users out there using VNC on their PalmOS device (Assuming the project to make a VNC client ever got off the ground - I haven't paid any attention to it), but that's a very small segment of the market.

On top of that, I imagine that an 11g card would consume signifigantly more power. I'm not sure if an SD card port can supply that much power, and even if it could you'd take a pretty hard hit on your battery life.

Re:11b or not 11b

[Deideldorfer]

That's why I got one of these.

Re:11b or not 11b

[KillerCow]

Or, put another way: Why not the faster 11g?

I don't think speed is an issue with these devices. You likely arent going to be downlaoding a 100meg file to your palm.

I refuse to buy 802.11 devices unless they support WPA. And no 802.11b devices support WPA to my knoledge. I don't want to have to disable encryption on my home network to use my palm on it.

Re:11b or not 11b

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? A palm does not need move a lot of data over a network like a PC does. 11Mb/s is more than fast enough for a Palm. A big app for a Palm is 1MB!

I, for one, will be very keen to get one of these cards for my wife's Tungsten T3. It will mean that a) I can ditch the flaky bluetooth setup which only works in some spots at home and b) it gives me an excuse to WiFi the house. :-)

Will it work with the Treo too?

[Darth_Vito]

I can't wait to find out if this will work with my Treo 600 mobile phone. It runs Palm OS 5.2.1 and it has an SD Card slot so I am optimistic. Although the Treo 600 already gets Internet access using the cellular phone system 802.11b would allow MUCH faster connection speed when a wireless network is available.

Re:Will it work with the Treo too?

[datastalker]

According to this story at TreoCentral, it will not work with the Treo 600. But since you (and I ;) ) get Internet anywhere there's a cell signal, it shouldn't be too much of a loss. All I can say is I'm glad I have the unlimited data plan. ;)

Re:Will it work with the Treo too?

[realdpk]

Definitely. Although, at home, I would like to be able to access my network, do things like hotsync over wireless (something I don't want to do over Sprint since I'd have to open up the firewall), download mp3s w/o using the USB cable, PalmVNC, etc.

Re:Will it work with the Treo too?

[Darth_Vito]

Thanks for the info DataStalker, You are right about the unlimited data. I didn't actually expect to use the Treo for Internet surfing but it is surprisingly more capable than I thought it would be. Too bad this WiFi card is not compatible but I would have been waiting for a while for the price to come down anyway.

Cool!

[AKAImBatman]

This is really, really cool! Now I can... erm... well... Hotsync without a cradle! Yeah, that's it!

Joking aside, anyone have any practical uses for such a gadget? In my experience, networking Palm Pilots hasn't helped them do much more. Sure, you can do WAP type stuff, but so can your cell phone.

Re:Cool!

[rf0]

Download pr0n whilst on the move

Rus

Re:Cool!

[einstein]

the palms this wifi card support have fully functional web browsers, and IM client, and even ssh. I use all those almost daily on my T3, bluetooth connected to my cellphone.

Re:Cool!

[kenf]

Well, hotsyncincing without having to boot a computer when you are trying to get out the door in the morning is a plus.

Also you can use free wireless hotspots to update things like Avantgo when you are traveling.

I bought a Sony Clie for just this reason.

Re:Cool!

[the pickle]

Well, yeah. I concur. Which is why I think a device like the HP iPaq 6300 series is a lot more useful: you have seamless Internet connectivity. WiFi is primary, GPRS is your backup, and Bluetooth is your PC connection. Why spend $129 to have a Palm that can only do two of the three?

(Yeah, it runs WinCE. Yeah, I hate that too. But I really want one nonetheless, because this can replace two devices with one, reduce my pocket clutter, and give me more functionality than the two devices it replaces had.)

p

Re:Cool!

[ch-chuck]

I use an iPAQ with a sandisk wifi all the time for listening to Internet radio, incl. my own icecast server, using GSPlayer. It's like carrying a portable transistor am radio in the shirt pocket.

Re:Cool!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody uses WAP anymore. The Palm has a traditional TCP/IP stack with a BSD sockets so you can access the web and such.

Re:Cool!

[ThrasherTT]

I'm interested in using something like this to be a universal remote that controls IR devices and devices accessible via VNC. I want a real universal remote... one that can control my AVR, DVD, TV as well as display a VNC session to my MP3 player PC.

BTW, anyone have any tips on doing this in a reasonably cost-effective manner?

Re:Cool!

[Yaztromo]

This is really, really cool! Now I can... erm... well... Hotsync without a cradle! Yeah, that's it!

Even better, you can HotSync to your home PC from a WiFi-enabled coffee shop or bookstore.

Personally, even though I have a 12" PowerBook, having WiFi capabilities in my Palm is really attractive. Unfortunately for me, it is uncertain as to wether or not this newly annouced device would work with my slightly older m505 :P.

Yaz.

Re:Cool!

[paRcat]

http://www.bitsnbolts.com/netchaser.html

and
http://www.sealiesoftware.com/pssh/

I use them both all the time and they rock. To be honest, those two apps make my Tungsten C worth it.

Re:Cool!

[Dr_LHA]

I have a Sony Clie TH55 which has built in WiFi, and I regularly use it to surf the web (Netfront), read my email (Clie Mail or VersaMail), use AvantGo in "online mode" (i.e. downloads stuff in real time), ssh to my work linux machine (TuSSH). Its incredibly useful.

Frankly your comment reminds me of people who couldn't figure out what the internet was for 10 years ago.

Re:Cool!

[Count of Montecristo]

Actually, there is:

Web based applications and console apps. I developed a web-based phisical inventory tool that integrates with our MRP system. Not only that, but the MRP system can be accessed via handelds using Telnet. We bought like 20 Tungsten C's just for that reason.

They are deployed troughout 10 warehouses for the management personnel.

The rougher symbol WinCE machines that we bought were deployed for use on the production line. and they all use the same app.

No platfom-specific development.. a single app.

Just remember that the market for handeld devices is more than just the techno-gadget hip crowd, there are myriads of industry specific applications for this stuff.

Re:Cool!

[LS]

I use it as a "walkman" of sorts. I stream internet radio and plug in some headphones and walk around the house. Or I plug it into the stereo in the living room. It's great!

LS

Re:Cool!

[slashjames]

I know of one. I'm the network admin for a retail college book store. We use a version of Palms that have a barcode scanner and 802.11b to help with inventory. Granted, they are a bit pricier than consumer models, at about $1500 a pop.

Re:Cool!

[AKAImBatman]

That's an excellent point. I've always thought of my Clie as being a lot like the PADDs on Star Trek. The only thing that's been missing has been access to a "library computer". WiFi on the Palm platform could really be of assistance in making business information easily accessible. Lord knows that "windows shared file servers" don't help worth a damn.

Re:Cool!

[fishdan]

I've been using my Tungsten C (built in wifi). VNC is the route to go. I use PalmVNC to control my media PC within the network. I do admit that I turned WEP down to 40bit to make the VNC run smoother, but other than that, I'm pretty durn happy. Wireless sync works so well, that now I ahve problems every 2 weeks or so because I never put the Palm in the cradle any more, so it never get's a chance to recharge

Re:Cool!

[Malc]

If your computer isn't booted, what are you hotsyncing with?

A modified AvantGo would update its content. But what about contacts, calendar, email, etc, which typically reside on your computer?

Re:Cool!

[ThrasherTT]

Thanks for the info, I'll look into it.

How is the IR tranmitter on the Tungsten C? Can I get 5m range? More? I want to drive my A/V components too :)

Re:Cool!

[cleverhandle]

Joking aside, anyone have any practical uses for such a gadget?

I'd love it. I'm a teacher, and I keep my grades in an online system that allows students and parents to check them at their leisure. At the moment, I either have to keep the initial grades on paper and then enter them later, or carry my crappy school-provided laptop around my classroom when I check work.

In this situation, the difference in size between a Palm and a laptop is significant. Cost, too - if I lost a Palm due to theft/stupidity, I'd be pissed. Super pissed, in fact. But I'd live. Losing a ~$1500 laptop, however, would require a whole lot of explaining to the wife.

Re:Cool!

[ThrasherTT]

Nevermind, I found a source for range data...

Re:Cool!

[chris234]

For email, I keep it on the imap server anyway, so VersaMail handles that. For calendaring, we use Oracle Calendar and I can use a SyncML client on the Palm to sync to that over the network. Contacts I do sync to the computer but as that list is rather static compared to mail and schedules, I can do that weekly or so.

It's interesting but I notice a lot of people still think of PDAs more as PC peripherals than as standalone clients, even though the power is more than there.

Re:Cool!

[macemoneta]

...I never put the Palm in the cradle any more, so it never get's a chance to recharge

Get a Power To Go and you can recharge while mobile. I frequently use it to keep my PDA fully charged, so that I can leave without worring that I have enough of a charge.

It's also great when traveling; you can watch a few full length movies or listen to MP3s all day on your PDA, without a cord.

Re:Cool!

[Anonymous Coward]

If it works on a Tungsten E, I would use it for this: http://sourceforge.net/projects/palmvnc2/

Wireless handheld VNC? Sounds perfect to me!

Re:Cool!

[Trejkaz]

SyncML is incredible. Supposedly OpenGroupware are going to support SyncML fairly "soon", which would make an awesome replacement for my desktop. I might even be able to live life without using Kontact! Or, I might just end up using Kontact to interact with OpenGroupware...

As for not having to boot the PC, Tungsten T3 owners can and do already use IP over Bluetooth to sync to their desktops... the wireless will only give us a few more metres range on the thing and probably a little less of that patented Bluetooth flakiness.

Re:Cool!

[Trejkaz]

I already use Bluetooth for this...oh wait. You said E. My bad. :-)

Re:Cool!

[chris234]

I don't think the T3 is all that flakey with respect to Bluetooth. I use it pretty heavily, both to sync to my Macs and for internect connectivity via either the Macs or using a cell phone. It's been pretty reliable.

Re:Cool!

[Trejkaz]

That's a different use case than the flakiness I was talking about. I've noticed that if a device is always trusted, then when you're on the Trusted Devices list, it shows up, whether or not the Palm can actually see it. But when you actually start communicating with the desktop, it seems quite solid. Mostly.

Using it to get Internet access via a Linux machine works about 20% of the time, but 100% of the time if you pull the bluetooth dongle out of the PC, and turn Bluetooth off and on again on the T3. This could easily be a Linux issue just as well as a palm issue, but I should note that shutting down just one or the other doesn't seem to fix it, only shutting down _both_.

Also quite often, probably 60-80% of the time, I can't see my desktop PC in the Current Discovery without refreshing at least once. Same with phones in the general vicinity. Sometimes a phone shows up first go, sometimes it doesn't. And I'm talking about devices only max 5m away in clear view.

That's what I mean by flaky, anyway.

Re:Cool!

[blugeoned]

I see some potential use in specific corporate environments for specialized applications.

We are looking into putting our trouble-ticket system on a palm for PC support and we are looking at another solution for users who travel within small campus areas who need to do inventory/damage reporting on merchandise.

This would be similar to the way doctors use these things in hospitals to look up patient information.

New Treo 600

[omnipotus]

I wonder if this new SD card will work in the Treo 600. It runs Palm 5 and has an SDIO slot; sure would be sweet to have a Palm/WiFi/Bluetooth/CDMA phone.

Re:New Treo 600

[StevenHenderson]

Too bad the Treo 600 doesn't have a high-res screen. I used to have a Treo 300 and never liked to use the browser since rendering sucked in low-res. I am still surprised they didnt fix that with the 600.

Re:New Treo 600

[JBoogie]

PalmOne's new SD WiFi card will not work with the Treo 600. treocentral.com has an explanation as to why it will not work with the Treo 600. Yeah, it would be sweet to have Palm/WiFi/Bluetooth/CDMA, but it appears we're going to have to see what happens with the Treo "Ace" rumored to be available sometime in the Fall.

for Palm's sake

[jford235]

it'd better work well 1st time around, cause otherwise they're gonna have a mob on their hands, considering how long this has taken, espically since its only for two palms.

So just like the third party ones?

[Kenja]

So its just like the ones from say Sandisk, but twice as expensive? With inovation like this its no wonder Palm is at the top of the PDA market.

Re:So just like the third party ones?

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Read yesterday's Dilbert.... It's all about design, not function.

Re:So just like the third party ones?

[foo fighter]

-1, Ignorant.

The Sandisk Wi-Fi SD card has a retail price of $109.99 and only works with the Zire 71. The Zire 71 was discontinued before the Wi-Fi card was released.

The announced product has a list price just $20 more and is supposed to work with the Zire 72 and Tungsten T3. The 72 and T3 are both current models you can actually buy.

I bought my T3 because of the screen, which can extend from 320x320 to 320x480 as well as rotate from portrait to standard; the bluetooth which lets me hotsync wirelessly with my computers and cell phone and transfer with other Palms more reliably than through IR; the Palm OS 5 which is absolutely the best PIM in a PDA bar none; and the promise of a Wi-Fi card coming soon - an annoyance two years ago but absolutely a joke now.

Wi-Fi should have been built into the T3 from the start -- they should release a T4 that does. The Tungsten C has Wi-Fi built into it but has a stupid thumb keyboard, a 320x320 screen that doesn't extend or rotate, and it lacks bluetooth and voice memos. Yet despite missing all that it costs the same as a T3. Ridiculous.

I love my T3: it is a constant companion I refer to constantly and the best PDA I've owned (and I have owned many, many PDAs). But the constant promise-delay, promise-delay cycle has tarnished its and Palm's reputation.

Re:So just like the third party ones?

[Kenja]

"The Sandisk Wi-Fi SD card has a retail price of $109.99 and only works with the Zire 71. The Zire 71 was discontinued before the Wi-Fi card was released."

And yet you can buy it RIGHT NOW for under 70$ as a simple internet search would have revealed.

Re:So just like the third party ones?

[ckd]

The Tungsten C has Wi-Fi built into it but has a stupid thumb keyboard, a 320x320 screen that doesn't extend or rotate, and it lacks bluetooth and voice memos. Yet despite missing all that it costs the same as a T3. Ridiculous.

To each their own. I bought the T|C because it works better for me than the T3 would have.

In my case, I use the WiFi daily; prefer the thumb keyboard to Graffiti 2 (too much time using Graffiti 1 to easily adjust, plus it's easier on my wrists to use a thumb-board than a stylus); the extra screen space would be nice, but is a fair tradeoff for the other features IMO; and don't use Bluetooth (I prefer the cradle, which helpfully charges). A WiFi card sticking out, just waiting to be broken, and taking up the slot I use for more storage would not be a win.

It can also do voice memos if you connect the optional headset, which I'm not bothered about.

My biggest complaint is that PalmOne doesn't ship Web Browser Pro with the C, their most Web-enabled product! (Minor complaint: the Bluetooth SDIO card that wasn't compatible with the C, but it still suffers from the above complaints about ease of breakage and taking up slot space.)

Viruses

[5m477m4n]

Sa-weet, now my stable palm pilot can catch viruses from Windows PCs!

Been there, done that--Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

This feature has been available on some of the Sony Clie handhelds for a while.

Too Bad Sony is pulling them from the US market.

Tungsten E

[CaptScarlet22]

Once again the Tungsten E is left out in the cold!!

You can see what Palm wants to push...The Zire 72...

Re:Tungsten E

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you complaining about! It seems like forever since I've seen anything for my Vx...!

Oh wait. It HAS been forever.

Re:Tungsten E

[EXrider]

Yeah, I'm really thinking about selling my TE now, it's pretty much useless for me without networking capabilities. I should've seen that one coming.

Re:Tungsten E

[Anonymous Coward]

And I have the Zire 71 -- once again, pioneers are shot in the back...

Re:Tungsten E

[zuralin]

Actually check out https://www.enfora.com/shop/detail.aspx?ID=36, it uses the USB port instead of the SD. I am thinking about picking up one once it comes back in stock.. A little more expensive but it also comes with a little more.

Finally...

[StevenHenderson]

This is fortunate since there has been a SanDisk SD WiFi card for a while, but only Zire71 compatible.

http://www.engadget.com/entry/5574704268292237/

Re:Finally...

[pythas]

Except there's no drivers for it.....

I imagine it's only a matter of time before SanDisk drops support, as the Zire 71 is a discontinued model.

Re:Finally...

[Anonymous Coward]

SanDisk's support for their current Palm WiFi card is pathetic anyway. The documentation is poorly-written (and has notes like "(TBD, redo)" scattered throughout), dialog boxes are misspelled, the promised support for WPA, 802.1x and PSK is completely missing...

Of course, they've only been working on this thing for the better part of a year, so I suppose it's harsh to expect it to, y'know... work.

Enabling Network Software

[william_lorenz]

Now I can use PalmVNC for cross-platform VNC sessions to my UNIX and Win32 boxen and PSSH to enable SSH2 connections! I wonder if this will work easily in public Wi-Fi hotspots, thinking with regards to quick 802.11b configuration and real-world interoperability?

Re:Enabling Network Software

[jayhawk88]

I hate to say it, but this statement has just taken 5 minutes off your sex life.

Re:Enabling Network Software

[diamondsw]

However, since you can't run both simultaneously (damn lack of multitasking) you still can't tunnel your VNC through SSH. How I wish someone would combine the two into an all-in-one VNC-through-SSH app...

pretty limited

[0x4B]

The new card is only designed to work with Zire 72 and Tungsten T3. Sorry kids, but nothing new for the Treo.

Almost, but not quite...

[nicktripp]

According to the article, it only works with the Tungsten T3 and Zire 72 models. I guess Palm just doesn't get it. This is why my Zire 71 (with Palm OS 5 and an SDIO slot) ended up on eBay. I knew it would never happen the way it should have.

And my Tungsten E remains wi-less...

[lxt]

...it's a pity that Palm couldn't find a work around to enable the SD card to be used in their other Tungsten handhelds, like my Tungsten E.

treo600

[_aa_]

Well.. my SprintPCS PalmOne Treo600 already has an internet connection through sprint, but a "broader-bander" connection would be nice. Last i heard there was not enough power in the SD slot of the treo to operate a wifi card. They don't explicitly mention support for the treo600, but I'm curious if it would work, or if there is a wifi card in the books for the treo. Or bluetooth for that matter.

Mod parent troll

[Anonymous Coward]

Palm and Windows don't even use the same chip architecture, let along the same operating system. Parent is retarded, move along.

12in Apple small?

[asv108]

While a 12 ibook was considered small 3 years ago, there are a lot better options when considering a portable laptop. The IBM x40, Fujitsu P series, or the Sony Picturebook are just a few examples.

Re:12in Apple small?

[Anonymous Coward]

Even 3 years ago the iBook wasn't small, check out the Dell Inspiron 2100/L400, Compaq M300, Toshiba Portege, Vaio 505, all from that era. And there are lots more. I think even the Fujitsu that you mentioned was around back then. The thing is, the iBook is about the only small budget laptop, most of the PC manufacturers like to price their 12" models as premium devices.

The other thing is that the iBook is one of the few that includes an optical drive. That's great if you use it often, if you don't it's just unnecessary baggage that makes the thing bigger and heavier than it needs to be.

Re:12in Apple small?

[SillyNickName4me]

http://www-132.ibm.com/search/701.html

Still have 2 of them.. too bad they are 486 class machines.

The keyboard is quite nice still.

Interesting description...

[sczimme]

Or, put another way: Why not the faster 11g?

Using the faster protocol would appeal the power users, and the early adopters that go for the hi-speed buzzwords.

I'm glad you didn't say anything about the real-world benefits of 11g (vice 11b) for a PDA; as far as I can tell there wouldn't be any. (Not flaming - just an observation.) PDAs typically aren't used to download large files, and may not be able to keep up with a saturated higher-speed connection. (Think (firehose + teacup).)

Re:Interesting description...

[Monkelectric]

The range of G is *much* better. Thats why you want it even in a PDA. Thats probably why its not in pdas either -- higher power consumption?

Re:Interesting description...

[realdpk]

"-- higher power consumption?"

Yep. Exactly why it's taken this long to get a SD WiFi card in the first place.

Re:Interesting description...

[Jeff DeMaagd]

The speed may not be necessary, but one less potential "b" device means that it isn't dragging down the connection speed of OTHER devices that would benefit from a faster connection.

Re:Interesting description...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. Exactly why it's taken this long to get a SD WiFi card in the first place.


Erm, I have an working engineering sample for an SDIO 802.11b device sitting on my desk that was delivered in 12/2002.

The only thing new here is that PalmOS supports the device (ie it has drivers). This hardware has been around for a while.

BTW, this device will work on an IPAQ running Linux with a suitably modified linux-wlan-ng driver and SDIO support (which unfortunately is not open source -- but it will be Real Soon Now because the sdcard people have seen the light)

Re:Interesting description...

[bill_mcgonigle]

The range of G is *much* better. Thats why you want it even in a PDA. Thats probably why its not in pdas either -- higher power consumption?

I thought G got better reception because its modulation (OFDM?) can take advantage of multi-path reflections. The unlicensed range is power-limited by the FCC.

I'd try Enfora's product first

[b-lou]

Although I've not used it yet, I'm more inclined to try Enfora's product first. It's a nice case + a battery of its own so you won't kill the Palm's battery by running WiFi. Also, it works with any of the recent palms that have the universal connector, it's not limited to the T3 and the Zire seventy-whatever. Home page: http://www.enfora.com.

Re:I'd try Enfora's product first

[Enry]

I have it.

It's nice, but bulky. Certainly not something you can put in your shirt or pants pocket and carry around with you. While you can charge the palm from the Enfora if the Enfora is plugged in, you can't use the Enfora battery to charge the Palm (one of my fears from the days when Palms didn't have rechargeable batteries and used AAAs).

Re:I'd try Enfora's product first

[b-lou]

Good information, thanks.

Actually, the only thing that would encourage me to get the SD card Wifi solution would be that I could use it simultaneously with my palm keyboard (I have the universal connector model, not one of the infra-reds).

Now they wont be lonley...

[Aceto3for5]

This is excellent. Now maybe after i lose THIS tiny expensive peice of hardware it can be friends with my 512mb thumbdrive and my USB bluetooth adapter, wherever they may be. Its nice to know they wont be lonley. Maybe they can use the 802.11 to signal thier location, like Gilligans Island.

Meanwhile, back in the present day...

[eufreka]

...PocketPC devices are looking to add combo wifi/memory sdio cards for about the same price:

From SanDisk http://www.sandisk.com/retail/256mb-wifi-sd.asp:

SanDisk's 256MB + Wi-Fi SD card combines flash memory and wireless communications into a single card giving SDIO-enabled PDA the freedom to quickly transmit and receive data, images and music from thousands of 802.11b hotspots worldwide.

From Brighthand (older link):

Unfortunately, SanDisk doesn't expect the necessary driver to allow Palm OS models to use this card to be available for many months. SanDisk's Wi-Fi SDIO card with 256 MB of memory will have a suggested retail price of about $150

I still miss my Palm.

Re:Meanwhile, back in the present day...

[Deideldorfer]

I got that very card from Sandisk for $122.95 including shipping last week from CompUPlus. So far, it is working very well.

Huh.

[c0dedude]

SD is little. Really REALLY little. How is it possible to get a decent 802.11 card with antenna and such into such a small and flat card? I'm just curious as to how this works.

Re:Huh.

[vocaro]

For one thing, it's 50% longer than regular SD cards. I assume it sticks out the top of the slot, and that's most likely where the antenna resides. The chipset probably fills up the rest of the card (inside the slot).

Nineties called...

[dostick]

...they want their PDA back!

Too little, too late

[moontumbohotmail.com]

Palm had a good thing going, but they have fallen behind in the past few years. I love my Palm, but I think it's too little, too late. My next PDA won't be a Palm. They're losing their competitive pricing. Other companies have had wireless for a long time that is much less expensive.

Re:Too little, too late

[li99sh79]

Palm had a good thing going, but they have fallen behind in the past few years. I love my Palm, but I think it's too little, too late. My next PDA won't be a Palm. They're losing their competitive pricing. Other companies have had wireless for a long time that is much less expensive.

My Palm came with wireless built in when I bought it in January. Tungsten C all the way baby. I love my T|C, and I'm glad I picked it instead of the T3. Though I do wish Palm had a bluetooth sd card for the T|C.
-sam

Re:Too little, too late

[indiechild]

I agree. I'm sick of waiting for the new generation Palm OS 6 devices to come out, and the Tungsten T3 (pretty much Palm's flagship model) doesn't have wifi either -- IMHO the Tungsten C sucks bollocks.

Palm's wishy-washiness about future Mac support didn't inspire me either. So I've taken the plunge and ordered a Dell Axim X30 312MHz with bluetooth and wifi. Maybe I'll switch back to Palm in a few years' time, but for now they've lost me.

Re:Too little, too late

[Anonymous Coward]

So, because Palm have been a bit vague on Mac support you've switched to a PocketPC device which has *no* official Mac support? Errr, WTF?

(Yes, I know about MissingSync et al, but still...)

The one thing the Clie Misses

[digitalgimpus]

For ages it was rumored that there would be a MS WiFi adapter. Then one was done, but only for certain OS 5 PDA's.

I emailed SanDisk, and here's what they said:
http://robert.accettura.com/archives/000266 .shtml

Sucks don't it?

Re:The one thing the Clie Misses

[Meostro]

Is this what you're talking about? I love my Clie, it's so much better looking (hi-res) and THINNER than the Palms. Too bad I don't have OS5, only 4.something... Wonder if this could be hacked to work on my PEGA-T415?

Re:The one thing the Clie Misses

[ElForesto]

I love my NX-70 Clie. Great big screen, decent camera, pretty fast processing, and the WiFi card option. I do have a few beefs with the WiFi, though. Number one, no signal browsing or automatic connections. I have to have it sniff around for an unsecured AP or specify which one to use. That's sort of inconvenient. Sony doesn't disclose much information to developers, so there isn't squat for 3rd-party utilities for it. The card also sucks power like nobody's business. I've seen it down the normally 4-hour battery in 45 minutes.

About the best uses for the WiFi card in it is to test wireless APs, grab info quickly while I'm in the living room and to grab directions online while I'm in a big, WiFi-friendly city (like San Francisco).

Re:The one thing the Clie Misses

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrongo...Clie TJ37 includes BUILT-IN WiFi 11b
and the TJ37 only costs $200 after rebate
($300 list) and comes with PalmOS 5.x and the
NetFront browser.

The Clie has replaced my notebook for airline
travel....it goes thru security with no
extra crap like a laptop gets. I use it
daily at free wifi hotspots when I'm on
business travel.

And includes Documents2Go which allows you
to view/edit MS Office files.

Too bad Sony has decided to stop making PDAs!

PalmInfocenter WiFi Card Review

[Anonymous Coward]

PalmInfocenter has a good Review posted

About damn time

[Roadmaster]

Once you use the T3 for any amount of time you realize it's too powerful a machine to stay unconnected; and bluetooth/IR through the cellphone is way too expensive. WiFi enables connection in any of the plenty of hotspots in town, and the T3 already comes with software to check e-mail and do browsing (full-fledged browser, although sometimes the screen size is a bit limiting). I also have a ssh app which will be far more useful if I can actually connect; not to mention VNC which will be great for remote diagnostics. I can actually see myself using one of these...

Review and More Info

[joncarwash]

Here is a nice full review from PalmInfocenter. It goes into full details and testing of the new SDIO Wireless card from PalmOne.

Some have asked how is this different than the SanDisk SDIO Wireless card for Palm that was released a short time ago. This description from SanDisk explains that its card is only for the Palm Zire 71 and products using recent versions of MS PocketPC. The new PalmOne card supports the Zire 72 and Tungsten T3, which the SanDisk card does not (apparently due to driver compatibility issues).

I own a PalmOne Tungsten E, which is the business value model, and there is not wireless support via SDIO cards, and doesn't look to be one available due to the power constraints of the Tungsten E model. Apparently, there have been some tests run with the SanDisk card on the Tungsten E, and it will work, but long-term effects on the SDIO slot have not been studied, and there could be damaging effects on the unit. Tungsten E users that want some sort of wireless connection should check out the Enfora Wireless Portfolio Case which seems to be the only wireless connection available for the Tungsten E.

Personally, I don't need wireless via my PDA since I already have a laptop and wireless card, but I know it is a nice feature, and on a future PDA I would want wireless to be available.

Re:Review and More Info

[AC5398]

I'm starting to feel more and more like I got burned when I bought my Tungsten E - the Zire 21 was $100 cheaper, has a father processor ... the Zire 71 is now WiFi ... other Tungsten models are going WiFi ...

I won't be upgrading to another Palm product when my current Palm finally bites the bullet.

Re:Review and More Info

[AC5398]

Ooops ... should read 'Zire 31' and 'faster processor' ... my bad.

Re:Review and More Info

[Anonymous Coward]

Or, people could just do what I've done for the past year, which is to carry a class one bluetooth dongle with me everywhere and make use of the fact that the Tungsten line has integrated bluetooth. (With the exception of E, unfortunately in your case)

Seriously though, I was almost sure that Palm was going to scrap the SDIO Wireless card in favor of just producing handhelds from now on with integrated networking. The SDIO card interface itself is a major bottleneck, throughputwise. I guess some money was still to be made supporting the older handhelds...but I'd advise anyone thinking of not upgrading to another Palm to get their hands on an OS6 emulator, ASAP.

Re:Review and More Info

[joncarwash]

I'm actually very happy with my Tungsten E - it was right in my price range, while all other devices (including all PocketPCs) were higher or much higher than my range. All I wanted was a PIM organizer with a color screen because I needed to get organized and wanted to ditch my paper calendar. It turned out to be very functional, and the Tungsten E actually comes with a whole load of software (DocumentsToGo, MobileDB, Palm Desktop, video and audio software), and it was already compatible with the SD card I use for my digital camera. Now I can listen to audio, read books, and play games for entertainment, and have all of my information (PIM info as well as passwords and logins in an encrypted storage program).

I would definitely recommend the Tungsten E to someone who is on a budget and doesn't need wireless functionality. I can always sync with my laptop (which does have wireless). I did a bunch of research before purchasing my Palm, and I'm still glad I purchased the E and I think it is still a good value. Obviously, newer models will continue to come out, and soon there will be a model close to the price range of the E ($200) with much better functionality (i.e. Dell Axim 30 312MHz Processor - for only about $280, with wireless, but not a great software package). I just hope Palm comes out with a new line of PDAs soon to counter the constant flow of new PocketPCs with more features.

Re:Review and More Info

[Tim Browse]

That'll teach you to post to slashdot from your Palm ;-)

Re:Review and More Info

[MrIcee]

You suggest the Enfora Portfolio as an alternative for WIFI for non-enabled devices.

I have a Tungsten W and I purchased the Enfora. The first one I received did not work at all unless I was standing 2 feet from the antenna... trying to get support I was told on the phone that "we do not offer support for that device" - however, upon digging and digging further I did end up with a phone number to the support engineer for the portofolio - who was VERY nice and gave me a return code.

I returned the device and they replaced it with a newer model (had a different connector on it) - and told me the the unit I sent them had the internal antenna disconnected which is why it wasn't working.

The new one worked much better - good range, but keeping it connected was a pain because the connector is not solid and unless you pinch the unit hard it tends to disconnect (and will disconnect, for example, by the pressure of just tapping on the screen). Infinitly frustrating because it was hard to determine whether or not I was connected.

After about 2 months of use, one day I turned it on, the green light came on... then it went yellow, then it went out. Now it's dead. If I insert the palm, power goes to the palm and it charges but pushing the power button on the Enfora does nothing whatsoever. Dead as a doornail.

Quite frankly I can't recommend that device to anyone (not to mention the fact that the unit I received has NO FCC info on it at all - which seems fishy to me).

Not to troll, but it is THAT useful?

[swb]

I mean, do you really find yourself able to do very much from a Palm screen on a PC? The ssh connection might be valuable if you had one of those folding keyboards or a thumboard on the machine itself, but with just the stylus, what can you really do?

Re:Not to troll, but it is THAT useful?

[jcostantino]

I'm sure you could scroll around the virtual screen and use the stylus as a mouse in addition to inserting text where the curser is - just like pretty much all the other VNC software out there.

Re:Not to troll, but it is THAT useful?

[swb]

And you could also tell someone on the phone what to type and where to click.

I guess my point is that with all the scrolling and tedius UI efforts, why bother? I guess maybe if you're a supersecret agent preventing the world from blowing up, fine, but does the office DB need to be worked on that bad that often?

Re:Not to troll, but it is THAT useful?

[jcostantino]

I was generalizing a bit to all Palm and CE devices but for example if you're sitting at Starbucks and get a phone call that there's a server problem, you can possibly fix it without having to go anywhere. Just one example of many.

I agree that it's tedious and slow but it's entirely possible that to spend a few minutes VNCing somewhere would prevent needing to go find a computer somewhere to do the same task.

Re:Not to troll, but it is THAT useful?

[Deideldorfer]

I have been using VNC on my ipaq 1945 (320x240) over a 56k bluetooth modem into a computer running at 800x600 and it's really not too bad. Sure, you have to scroll around a bit, but it really is usable.

Re:Not to troll, but it is THAT useful?

[swb]

I'll cede your points, but at the same time I can't help but see it as either excessive geekiness (where the owning and configuring is 99% of it, using it never happens much) or some kind of "lifestyle computing" where supercool IT guys in Prada outfits sit around coffeeshops managing servers.

Oh well, if it turns your crank, do it!

Re:Not to troll, but it is THAT useful?

[Rasta Prefect]

I guess my point is that with all the scrolling and tedius UI efforts, why bother? I guess maybe if you're a supersecret agent preventing the world from blowing up, fine, but does the office DB need to be worked on that bad that often?

Well, not so much that they need to be worked on that often as they often need to be worked on _right now_. If I can do that from my Palm instead of having to drag my ass to the office.

And "SD" is.....?

[PhysicsGenius]

Maybe I'm old and out of touch, but I don't know what half the blurbs on Slashdot are even talking about anymore. Could we have more explanation on acronyms and jargon, please?

Re:And "SD" is.....?

[stratjakt]

"Secure Digital". Another of the umpteen million proprietary flash card formats. It's the same physical dimensions as an MMC card, and the two are usually interchangable. They are on my cell phone/pda, at least.

Noone's every adequately explained to me any differences between the two. Some people tell me "MMC is the best format" others say "SD is awesome!". They're just cheerleaders who don't even know what sport they're watching.

Anyhow, they're both obsolete because now we have XD cards. Products with X are inherently superior.

Re:And "SD" is.....?

[cbiffle]

SD's interface is vastly faster than MMC (stock MMC anyway, there's the new something-X MMC cards that are supposedly faster). There was, at one time, also an interface size limitation that kept MMC cards capped at (iirc) 64M, but that seems to have been resolved. (Prolly protocol changes.)

SD also includes encryption and some sort of auth so your music will be "safe" (hence the Secure in Secure Digital). This is why us Linux folks are having a hell of a time with it, because on e.g. the iPaq we can't take full advantage of the slot. (The SD folks would rather not open-source their encryption, which, to me, points to a certain degree of ignorance about encryption.)

I like palm, but...

[tkrotchko]

A Dell X30 with WiFi and Bluetooth can be purchased for $170 on sale, or about $250, full list.

So if this thing costs $130, and the T3 costs $300, that leave us with a price tag of $430.

Ahem.

Re:I like palm, but...

[ViolentGreen]

Plus you don't have to learn palm's "grafiti" or whatever it's called. Say what you will about WinCE but the handwriting recognition is beyond comparison with Palm's.

Re:I like palm, but...

[Dr. Manhattan]

Aw, I got a Handera 330 & a CF Wifi card for about that. Syncs beautifully with Linux, I don't even use the Windows software. SD and CF slots, and while the screen is grayscale, my battery life will kick the snot out of any WinCE devices, and all color Palms - weeks on a few AAAs.

I haven't done it yet, but people have gotten over six hours of continuous pings over Wifi using a 330. I'm not sure an X30 will run for six hours, period...

One down, One to go.

[955301]

Duke Nukem forever, here we come!
Won't be long now...

Heavy Zire 71 camera users will need this...

[brownpau]

You'll definitely need this to HotSync your Zire 71 when the stupid internal sync/charge cable problem starts kicking in as it has on mine.

Re:Heavy Zire 71 camera users will need this...

[brownpau]

Oops, it's for Zire 72. Must RTFA next time. Sorry.

Feh

[CarrionBird]

Since it only supports the newest two models, why wouldn't I just get a new one from Sony or elsewhere with it built in?

Besides, wi-fi spots are few and far between (there's like two or three in the central SC area), while my bluetooth capable phone works all over the place.

Of I could just be a little pissy about the fact that other companies would have one out already if Palm would license the needed OS code.

Security Concerns

[Phoinix]

A palm has address book, calendar and secure applications for passwords, etc...

I would think ten times before having my palm accessing or "accessible" via WiFi.

Yes, I am at the paranoid side, but in this age, you have to be so.

Wifi is not an option for me unless there is solid security such as runing two different systems on a Palm similar to a PC. Until that is an option, my Palm is offline.

Main Reason I Didn't Get a Palm

[LilMikey]

I love their devices. The T3 is a great size for a PDA and the Zodiac is awesome for a gamer's PDA however neither had crap for WiFi (although both had bluetooth). They had nice screens and PalmOS is ok but the rest of the device seemed dated. Single expansion slot, moderate memory, etc. Adding $130 on the cost of the thing also puts the T3 firmly on the high end.

I went with an e805 that has a 640x480 screen as well as built in WiFi and a ton of memory. So until Palm can come out with a decent PDA that has a 640x480 screen and integrated WiFi I'll be stuck with the evil empire.

AvantGo and other web services, plus email

[acroyear]

The main thing you gain by being 'net connected 24x7 is the same as any other portable with a 'net -- the ability to use the web and other services without a cable.

so what services are there in particular?

AvantGo, as a web browser, becomes more useful because it includes the capability to sync up independent of the rest of the PDA's sync. Because the list of pages I want to sync with is stored at avantgo's server, it can do that without having to access my local machine.

second, and naturally enough, you have email access as soon as you hit a 'net, so like any good tool the first thing anybody's going to use it for is email.

finally, "real" web browsers (As opposed to download and surf locally systems like avantgo) will come about. they aren't there now because the 'net wasn't there in any consistent form. Really, if there wasn't a consistent network, no good network software would be written. now that palm is offering a consistent network, people will write better network software. you can't write software for hardware that doesn't really exist and expect anybody to use it.

Re:AvantGo and other web services, plus email

[AKAImBatman]

Cell access to the Internet has been available on the Palms for years. Yet none of the things you've mentioned have really combined to make the Palm a good wireless platform.

Re:AvantGo and other web services, plus email

[acroyear]

well, for a while, cellphones with palmos were stuck to 160x160 pixels (absolutely useless for pretty much anything, IMHO), and cell phone 'net is dog-slow (slower than normal dial-up at times).

finally, a phone with palmos is just that: a phone. with a ton of bells and whistles, but really people are only using it as a phone with some form of messaging. the idea of it being a personal organizer with web access first, phone second, simply isn't there.

this is trying that other route -- have a PDA organizer with web access first, eventual phone second, which can use 802.11b voip as one of several ways of getting the word out, so to speak.

in the end, is there any "killer app" for PDAs? no. trying to network them up with FAST networks (as opposed to cellphone nets) is one more way of trying to create an environment in which, maybe, SOMEBODY will build the "killer app".

this is just like their having included real (audio) player with any palmos-5.2 systems, making a palm into a small mp3 player. trying to find something that can finally be the "oh, i gotta get me one of them" hook.

so far, no PDA has it yet. the phones + pda capabilities are selling a little bit better simply because they're not all that much more expensive than normal cell phones, not because they've got a killer app that main-line palms don't.

Re:AvantGo and other web services, plus email

[Trejkaz]

Instant messaging does. Nobody would want to keep a GPRS connection online 24 hours a day because the costs are stupidly prohibitive, but with free wireless access in so many places, you won't be paying a cent. I could finally keep my Jabber connection up 24/7. But actually, the power drain would be crippling unless I had a charger at work as well as home. :-)

11b on an 11g network

[pixelphsr]

I haven't switched my house over to 11g, but I thought the problem with firing up an 11b device within an 11g network was that it would force all of the g devices down to the b data rate. So your pda is not going to be doing any large downloads and now neither is your laptop.

huh?

[SuperBanana]

Solid-state memory and an always-on OS eliminate both boot-up time and HD seek.

Um...I last rebooted my powerbook for the 10.3.5 system update. Prior to that, I had a 38 day uptime. Furthermore- I've rarely actually run out of battery time. I laugh when people talk about boot up times- they've clearly never used a powerbook if they make such an inane comment. You open the lid. 2 seconds later you've got your network connections and you can start work, unless you turned on password locking. Hell, half the time my SSH tunnels are still useable- even after the PB has been asleep for hours! Not like reboots take any more than a minute on a 1Ghz G4 anyway.

Comparing a laptop to a PDA is absurd. You can't watch video/DVDs, surf webpages with any decent speed or clarity, or write with anything approaching speed or easy of use(I guarantee I can type at least ten times faster than you can "grafiti"). I'd also like to see you fit 60GB of data onto your palm pilot. Even if it was possible- its OS couldn't efficiently handle that much storage.

A lot of people can use their palms as easily as a computer. For some folks, it's even easier.

Um, are you seriously suggesting people can just "pick up" grafiti? It took me weeks before I could stop looking at the cheat sheet.

With my iPod and phone (Siemens S56) both supporting full contact info and calendaring as well as text notes for things like directions, I sync them both to iCal and Address Book with two clicks. My Visor has been sitting in the closet gathering dust for 3 years.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

my palm has a full qwerty kybd

Re:huh?

[Planesdragon]

Um...I last rebooted my powerbook for the 10.3.5 system update. Prior to that, I had a 38 day uptime.

The last time my palm "crashed" was when I was mucking about with a new program. Prior to that, I had an "uptime" approaching 6 months. And when it did crashe, it came back up in a matter of moments.

I'll note that you totally ignored the HDD seek, power consumption, and cost arguments. How nice of you.

or write with anything approaching speed or easy of use(I guarantee I can type at least ten times faster than you can "grafiti"). I'd also like to see you fit 60GB of data onto your palm pilot. Even if it was possible- its OS couldn't efficiently handle that much storage.

1: I don't use graffiti for anything but single-line entry. I have a keyboard for that--and the thing keeps up with me as well as anything else I've ever used.

2: I'd like to see you generate 60 GB of real text--or even 256 MB. You can even have a month to do it. (And we'll ignore that the main point of the WiFi card is to eliminate the Palm's native-memory standard. Want an archive of old documents? Just share with the harddrive.)

3: you're right. A palm and an ibook are very, very different tools. An ibook is a computer, a palm is an accessory.

Um, are you seriously suggesting people can just "pick up" grafiti?

No. I'm suggesting that there are people who can use a palm as well as or better than they can use a computer. Graffitti does take time to learn--but it probably took you weeks to stop looking at the keys when you type, too.

With my iPod and phone (Siemens S56) both supporting full contact info and calendaring as well as text notes for things like directions, I sync them both to iCal and Address Book with two clicks. My Visor has been sitting in the closet gathering dust for 3 years.

Nice. I have a 486 that's been gathering dust for years, too.

There is a role for the palm form-factor. It's not for everyone, but it is a distinct role. (This role can be taken by smart phones, and there's some mp3-player overlap, but there are reasons to avoid both of those.)

Re:huh?

[JonKatzIsAnIdiot]

Um, are you seriously suggesting people can just "pick up" grafiti?
My nine-year old son was writing his name in about three minutes. It took me about two hours to get a handle on the alphabet. That got me started and I looked up puncutation and numbers as I needed them. When I was too lazy to do that, I just used the on-screen keyboard. And that's with the old single-stroke Grafitti. The new version is even easier.
My Visor has been sitting in the closet gathering dust for 3 years
Fine. Send it to me. How much you want for it?

Re:huh?

[LogicFlow]

Erm. I can watch mpeg/avi/divx and a few others on my T3. Ask google about mmplayer.
And I have a 144k connection to the 'net too, via bluetooth to cell phone. And QVGA is plenty for porn on the go (least that's what I use it for).
It's streaming music right now matter of fact, as I'm using it and a portable keyboard to type this comment.

Storage? Between web, music, ssh, and ftp servers at home and apps on the palm to use them, it's a non-issue. VNC too if I really wanted. And the connection is as fast as it would be on a powerbook over bluetooth. Now, we get wifi as well.

There's even a few very well done games as well. Thief3D comes to mind off the top of my head.

Even have a lil Scheme implementation.

Yeah, there's nothing here you can't do on a powerbook. But a powerbook wouldn't make it any faster, so why would I spend the $?

Re:huh?

[SuperBanana]

The last time my palm "crashed" was when I was mucking about with a new program. Prior to that, I had an "uptime" approaching 6 months.

You complained about bootup time. I told you it was irrelevant. Don't change the focus- it's not a pissing contest, it was an argument against your insinuation that bootup time is a major hassle. It's not even a concern.

I'll note that you totally ignored the HDD seek, power consumption, and cost arguments. How nice of you.

I ignored HDD seek because I've got a GB of ram and it doesn't really affect me that much; my HD doesn't seek in a blocking fashion when I'm surfing webpages, typing emails, etc.

Power consumption is maybe 50W -fully- loaded down(screen, processor, GPU, CDROM all operating at full power draw). Doing nothing but surfing the web or typing emails, it's cool enough to sit on my bed or rug and not even get past "lukewarm". Used lightly, I can make my battery last a full 8 hour workday. Sleep mode can be used extensively since it takes about 2 seconds to wake and become useable.

Cost? Well, that's like a Yugo owner telling a Bentley owner, "your car is inferior, mine costs less." I've got a 17" full color screen, full size keyboard(which glows in the dark, thank you very much!), 60GB hard drive, Wifi(802.11G, handy for accessing my 360GB fileserver from, say, the hammock) and a DVD burner.

I'd like to see you generate 60 GB of real text--or even 256 MB. You can even have a month to do it.

One word, 5 characters. Starts with V, ends with o. One word, 5 characters, starts with P, ends with o. You can do neither on your fruity little palm. Thank you for playing. Oh, and I have about 500MB of email, and another 200MB compressed in an archive.

(And we'll ignore that the main point of the WiFi card is to eliminate the Palm's native-memory standard. Want an archive of old documents? Just share with the harddrive

Or I could just walk over to the computer and use it- full size keyboard, nice pointing device, big screen that (gasp!) supports- get ready for it- color. Oooooooo.

I have a 486 that's been gathering dust for years, too.

I said 3 years- and 486's aren't 3 year old technology- yet more useless comparisons for theatrics. My newest PC is about 3 years old(athlon thunderbird) and my main server is a celeron the -original celeron-) 300. My router is a 6 year old laptop and my fileserver is a P3/500. All of it ancient technology, and still perfectly useable.

My Handspring failed at its only mission in life, to store my contacts, because the fucking thing didn't have nvram and thus every time I went to use it to look up a phone number, its batteries were dead and its memory erased. I'd have to find some AA's, dig out the cradle, sync it up. Wonderful, except when you're on the fucking side of the road and you need to call a friend, and you just put new batteries in the fucking thing two weeks ago.

Go play with your (heh) palms, okay?

Re:huh?

[PDA_Monkey]

You're right, it is absurd to directly compare a laptop to a PDA and vice versa.

I will say, however, that I can and do watch MPEG & AVI videos and even full DVD movies on my Tungsten|T3. I put the video (DVDs transcoded using dvd::rip to ~400MB XviD AVIs w/96kbps MP3 audio @ ~320x240 resolution) on my 512MB SD card and watch it using MMPlayer. Works pretty damn good actually, especially in widescreen. I stick a few on my 20GB Neuros and load 'em up whenever I want using a portable card reader and whatever PC I happen to be at.

Also, portable keyboards, like the Stowaway work well and allow quick entry and retaining maximum portability. I had one for my Prism and used it a lot during meetings. I have yet to need one for my T3 since I don't do a lot of data entry any more and the virtual qwerty keyboard is sufficient for what I do (though I long for the IBM ATOMIK layout I had on my Prism).

Many people can and do "pick up" grafiti quickly. I think it took me about 1 hour to get the general hang of it and maybe 2 days to be really comfortable and proficient... Grafiti2 is even easier! Of course, I still prefer tapping out letters on a virtual keyboard; or better yet, using my stowaway (when I had it) for a lot of typing, such as word processing with WordSmith.

Re:huh?

[Planesdragon]

*sigh*

You complained about bootup time. I told you it was irrelevant. Don't change the focus- it's not a pissing contest, it was an argument against your insinuation that bootup time is a major hassle. It's not even a concern.

YOU were the one who took it as a complaint. I noted that there are plenty of uses for Palms. You obviously don't have a use for one. Good for you.

Doesn't mean that PDAs don't have their place. Doesn't mean that they don't fit in very nicely in a number of different setups that could include WiFi.

I'm sure you feel superior knowing that you have a laptop you have with you at all times, and you need something else so rarely that pen & paper make more sense for you. Yay for you.

Cost? Well, that's like a Yugo owner telling a Bentley owner, "your car is inferior, mine costs less."

The Bentley owner does not tell the Yugo owner "your car has no place." And he may even have a number of Yugos--if you count every vehicle that his wealth supports, at least one Yugo and likely many more are numbered among them.

Anyway, enough other threads on this story have given firsthand accounts to prove my point. Sorry I'm not impressed by your collection of pointless hardware and your obsessive attachment to your ibook. As has been said elsewhere, "you can't fit that in a pocket."

Re:huh?

[SillyNickName4me]

Last time I checked, a zire 72 can record video.. playing works on a 71.. theres a nice mpeg player as well.. connecting a dvd player will be a problem tho I guess.

Sound has been there for quite some time as well (using my z71 as mp3 player..)

The only thing it really lacks is some kind of mass storage.. but hrm.. I actually bought it as a pocketsize agenda/addressbook/webbrowser/notepad.. the rest is all just fun but mostly useless features for that purpose.

Re:huh?

[SillyNickName4me]

> There's even a few very well done games as well. Thief3D comes to mind off the top of my head.

Spy hunter!

(sorry.. have been addicted to that game since its first incarnation in the 80s)

SD Wifi already existed

[nurb432]

There has been at least 2 Wifi SD cards for a year or so now, why couldn't drivers just have been written instead of waiting on an entire new card?

(they were expensive, but they DID exist.. )

Re:SD Wifi already existed

[CarrionBird]

Companies have tried but, Palm would not license the necessary code.

Not the first

[jesuscash]

Sandisk has had one out of the the Zire 71 for a couple months now. http://www.sandisk.com/retail/c-wifi-sd.asp

Re:$129? (now a Grumpy Old Man Rant)

[angst_ridden_hipster]

Blanket statements like "Palms are inferior to PocketPCs" always amaze me, particularly in this case.

Maybe it's because I have a strong (and contrarian) opinion on what a PDA is used for. One doesn't get a PDA when what one needs is a notebook computer.

One gets a PDA to organize one's life: keep phone lists, to-dos, calendars, project management, password caches, and databases of system configurations and favorite restaurants and people's birthdays; read electronic books; and play an occasional time-wasting puzzle games. Maybe in rare cases do a Google search, or get crossword help from OneAcross.com, or download a map to your next meeting.

But if you're wanting to edit Excel spreadsheets, organize photo collections, edit your novel, create PowerPoint presentations, do nonlinear movie editing, etc, why not use something that's designed for that kind of activity? Why not use something that has a mega-pixel display? I have a reasonably portable 5 lb, 12", Unix-based notebook that I can do all that stuff on.

But for my PDA, I don't want all the complexity and extra features. I want reliability, simplicity, and long battery life. I don't want an OS that I have to update and patch and worry about. I do think it's a grand idea to have my PDA integrated into my phone, but I don't want to have to worry about all that other stuff. A PDA is about stability. It's about utility. It's not about extreme versatility.

And I don't want a camera in my PDA. If I'm going to take pictures, I want a real quality lens. I want decent dynamic range. I want 3 fps at useful resolution (e.g., 3008x2000 pixels). I have a digital camera that is designed for the single purpose of doing good digital photography. I don't want half-assed features just for the benefit of having them integrated into one box.

Feh!

Well, I guess I'm a Luddite.

for T2 owners:

[Lawmeister]

from the palminfocentre's article:

So why is the card only available for the T3 and Zire 72, and not other models with SD slots? The official answer from palmOne is: Following market and development-cost analysis, palmOne wanted to develop a Wi-Fi card that will be applicable to its Zire 72 and Tungsten T3 handhelds. These solutions require very tight integration between hardware, firmware and custom software, as well as access to propriety technologies for the level of tight integration necessary to give the customer an excellent experience. In other words it sounds like the differences between other models SD slots and other factors such as power draw and battery capacity, made is cost prohibitive to develop it for other handhelds.

hmmm, I'm thinking they are just pushing their newer products.

What does "SD" stand for?

[Anonymous Coward]

Super Duper?

Re:What does "SD" stand for?

[JBoogie]

hehe Super Duper.... not quite... SD stands for Secure Digital... it would be Super Duper if SD's current max storage capacity was close to what's available now for Compact Flash. 1Gb is the max storage currently available for SD cards and prices are at around $150.00, 2Gb SD cards are on the way, not sure when they will be available though.

There is this for the Tungsten E...

[StressGuy]

https://www.enfora.com/shop/detail.aspx?ID=36

I think I would go this route since I would most likely only need wi-fi on the road to check e-mail or web info more conveniently than pulling out the laptop.

Other than that, all I really need is a calculator/organizer most of the time.

Awww Man....

[Anonymous Coward]

...and here I was hoping the 'SD' stood for SuperDuper.

Want WiFi? Check out the Clie TJ-37!

[benmhall]

I just purchased one on ebay for $250 with a 256MB MS Pro stick.

The TJ37 is small, has built-in Wifi and a camera, runs PalmOS 5.2.1, has 32MB of RAM and a 200MHz processor.

Now that Sony's bailing out of the PDA market, these things are very hard for retailers to sell, making them quite affordable!

Oh, and they work well in Linux. (Also in OSX with MisssingSync. In OSX the MS works with iTunes. Very cool.)

It really is a shame that Sony pulled out of PDAs. Really, they were the only ones pushing Palm HW and SW for years. It's good to see PalmOne finally making decent hardware, but they're only now catching up to what Sony has been doing for years. Anyway, if you're not too concerned about owning a dead-end product, the TJ37 offers quite a bit for a good price.

I've spent time

[way2trivial]

in my home restroom, shooting bunnies on the pot, reading webbpages with my Handspring visor and Xircom wifi adapter.. a better way to kill an hour ill I do not know.

I would not want to be on the pot with a laptop on my lap.... but a handheld works fine

Palm: appropriate technology for the job.

[MsGeek]

My Palm devices basically are replacements for a paper-and-pencil organizer. As such, it's great. A few ounces of weight in my purse vs. 5 pounds.

Anything else about the Palm is gravy. Mahjongg solitare? Brian Eno's Oblique Strategies? A Yi-Jing thrower? A subnet calculator? Plucker and PalmReader? A bunch of books on a SD card? All fun extras.

I bought my current refurbed m125 for $70 at Fried Electronics. I bought a refurbed m100 for the same price a year and a half before that. Palms are cheap. If I misplace the damn thing (as I have once in the past) replacing it is not a tragedy. Losing a Zaurus or a PocketPC would be almost as bad a hit in the pocketbook as losing a laptop.

I still like my Clie

[Aaden42]

Is that a 12" iBook in your pocket or........

But seriously... I ALWAYS have my PalmOS device with me (a Sony Clie NX70 that's had WiFi since I bought it in December 2002!). I *love* my PowerBook to death; and if I had the extra $$$$ laying around, I might even consider getting a chibi iBook for those times when 15" is just too big.

For all the utility of a full laptop, I've yet to encounter one that will fit in my pocket without requiring custom pocket sewing and a sturdy belt / tourniquet to keep my pants from heading south in a hurry.

There's certainly a lot more you can do with a full laptop, but there's a lot to be said for something that's always with you and instantly accessible. I often use the WiFi on my Clie to check mail or ssh into a server at work to check something.

Nani? ^_^

[JessLeah]

A super-deformed 802.11b card?

hmm...

[Run4yourlives]

Tungsten T3 @ $450 + WiFi card @ $125 = Treo.

And you get a phone and camera with the Treo.

iBook for $400 ?

[pixel-fodder]

I have Tungsten | C with built-in 802.11 - syncing without the cradle contraption is great - that's my main use but email is pretty good too and I do sometimes surf the web (mainly reading Y! news on the crapper)

I welcome other palm users to the wireless world - now when are Palm going to release a BT card for my Tungsten C ????

WPA Please

[tillemetry]

Hey Palm, how about some WPA support for my Tungsten C?

Tungsten C

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a Palm Tungsten C with built in Wi-Fi, and I have to say it's antenna is fairly weak. It's a bulkier unit, so I'd think it's safe to say that it's antenna is probably MORE powerful than what an SD card can offer... as it is, I can't sit outside my home and get a connection on the Palm, however the laptop PC card does just fine.

Also, using NetChaser (a NetStumbler clone for Palm) I pick up far fewer AP's than I can with the laptop.

The more useful elements of the Wi-Fi are not suprisingly in e-mail and chat... VeriChat keeps me connected to ICQ/MSN/etc. when I'm roving around the house cleaning or whatever. The 320x320 screen is a little small for browsing, however the browser does a decent job when you start thumbscrolling through pages.

The battery life isn't too bad, I can get an hour or so of chatting in before it starts to drop low (dimming the screen does wonders as well)... and Warwalking with NetChaser through the neighborhood can last about 45 minutes (22 unsecured AP's on my 10 minute walk home).

Additionally, some people may scoff at the wireless hotsync, but I've found great use for it... I keep my cradle at work, but also like to back up or upload things from home, which works great on the laptop. No messy wires or anything.

Just from poking around the comments I see that people don't have a clear distinction between laptop and PDA... they serve two completely different functions, and I like it that way. I don't need a 4 lb. calendar/notepad, nor do I need a 5 oz. device with full PC features. Sitting right in the middle is cd/mp3 player, which is what my Zen Ex is for... and my cell phone is, well, a cell phone. No Overlap, all complementary.

In Conclusion: Convergence bad. Wi-fi on Palm good. Me Quiet.

Treo 600 with still no bluetooth

[saha]

I'm a current Treo 180 user and the list of things I need the new Treo 600 plus to have are;

Bluetooth so I can iSync without a cable

320x320 screen

If they're going to leave that damn camera, then let it take video. MPEG-4 or H.264 clips.

Last but not least expansion with SDIO for GPS, WiFi, ...etc.

Found a great Treo 600 holster from Seidio, that would protect the screen well. Just like my Treo 180 (which is one reason I like it, but the flip phone part is susceptable to breakage).

Re:Treo 600 with still no bluetooth

[MacJedi]

From what I've read on *cough* rumor sites it's widely expected that your above list will come more or less come true with the Treo 610/ACE (or whatever it's ultimately called.) And if I may be so bold as to add another item to the wishlist,

• PalmOS 6 (aka Cobalt)

I'm not very hopefull about that one, though :-(

How about Bluetooth now?

[RealSiraris]

I've been waiting years for this card to be announced, FINALLY! now how about a phone where I can use a bluetooth headset with it!!!

Flimsy antenna?

[xtal]

I'm intrigued.. but I might put off my impending purchase of a T3. Looking at it for the sole purpose of running power48, as my real hp48 finally is showing wear on the buttons.

However, I have a bluetooth SD card, and the thing is almost useless for practical use - you can't just leave the card in there, because it sticks up about a centimeter or so and is very flimsy looking. It routinely pops out of place if you put it in your pocket with the SD card inserted.

Forget using any hard case or belt case with the SD card inserted. If you have to take it off, it defeats the purpose! (I'd love something like this for a home-pager setup on my 802.11 network).

I don't see any pictures in the press release.. but I think I'll be waiting for a T4, with 802.11 built into the device.

The good news is...

[slyckshoes]

...that you can't go negative, so don't worry about it.

Why I don't care

[DrVomact]

I'm sure that I'm not the only person who doubts whether the palm has a future in its present form. I've got a Sony Clie that I use as an "organizer" and chess-opponent. The thing cost me $400...but I'd never pay that much for a palm device again. They've been around long enough that I expect to be able to buy a plain vanilla palm with a legible color screen for around $120 or less. I don't care about combining my organizer with a digital camera, wi-fi connection, waffle-maker, or MP3 player. All I want is something that keeps my personal information securely, reminds me of meetings, and plays chess. Eventually, I want to buy a combo cell phone and organizer (that plays chess) because it seems like a logical move to combine the two gadgets I always carry with me.

USB host?

[Punto]

this is nice, but are there any plans to add a USB Host port? There's not really much point (in my opinion) to use one of this things with 200mhz+ CPUs, wich could easily replace a computer for many tasks, and not be able to attach other portable devices with USB to it, like a camera, one of those memory pen sticks thingies, etc.

The 'simputer' looks nice for this, but sadly it's still not available on _my_ side of the 3rd world.

Just use Bluetooth

[David M. Andersen]

Just get a bluetooth barcode scanner.

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=bluetooth+barc ode&scoring=p

You got me curious.

[Weasel Boy]

What, precicely, can PocketPC devices do that Palm OS devices cannot? I don't mean trivial stuff like this_app, I mean classes of activities.

I'm curious, because I'd gotten the impression that Palm OS was way more useful than PocketPC.

Re:You got me curious.

[Trejkaz]

Some of them can run Linux! ;-)

Re:You got me curious.

[RevAaron]

So can some (well, the Palm III) Palms run Linux, at least a limited ucLinux. :P

Re:You got me curious.

[RevAaron]

It's not that there aren't apps for the Palm OS. It's the OS itself. You could say the same thing in regards to Mac OS 6 (sans Multifinder) vs any modern OS. They can run similar apps, no doubt. But on Palm OS you're limited to one app, just like on ancient Mac OSes. The UI can be nice, but in plenty of programs, a nice UI doesn't make up for the slowness of network and other IO.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Palm OS. But I also like Mac OS 6. They're both quite quaint. But as a person who uses and has used devices that other people call "PDAs" as my *primary computer*, running WinCE or Linux. I could not do that with Palm OS, both because of the architecture of the OS in general, but also because of the kinds of apps for the Palm OS that are available. For instance, there are no web browsers that allow one to have multiple tabs or windows. No, that isn't a big deal to most Palm or PDA users, but it is to me- and that's for whom I speak.

Or...

[slapout]

Or they could have just made Palms with Compact Flash card sockets...

Still using notebooks

[Trejkaz]

I can't see the advantage of using a 12" powerbook over using a powerful desktop (dual G5 for example). A compacted and hard to read screen compared to a full 20" monitor. Surely the space it takes up is made up for in usability nowdays.

m500?

[molo]

Does anyone know if this works with the m500 series with SD slots as well? (running PalmOS 4.x)

Thanks,
-molo

Re:$129? (now a Grumpy Old Man Rant)

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

Man, I hate this type of comment.

It's the "I don't want a phone that does this", or "I don't want a PDA that does this" comment.

If you don't need an MP3 player in your phone, you can still buy one with an MP3 player. Here's a tip: don't use it.

My Pocket PC Phone replaces 5 other devices:
- PDA
- Phone
- MP3 player
- USB drive key
- Game Boy

It plays MP3s and WMAs, as well as movies (WMA, about 40mb for a 30min TV show with good quality). It lets me get my email on the go. I can make phone calls. I can play some games.

According to you, what I really want is a laptop. I currently have two, but they don't fit so well in my pocket. And taking a phone call on one is pretty clumsy.

You want good battery life? I charge my device nightly and it never drops below 60%, even with extensive usage and plenty of phone calls.

You want reliability? I have never installed an update on my Pocket PC. I have never reinstalled the OS. I soft-reset about once a week, which takes about 20 seconds.

My Pocket PC is zippy, it syncs with Outlook fine, it has an excellent screen, and it's never given me trouble.

I use Pocket Excel to keep track of my DVD collection. Perhaps you want me to bring my notebook to Blockbuster so I can see if I already own a particular title.

I use Photo Viewer on my Pocket PC to show people photos of my life. Perhaps you want me to bring my notebook to restaurants so I can show people photos.

I use Pocket Slides to collaborate on PowerPoint presentations at lunch. Perhaps I should bring my notebook so that I can make a few changes to the slides. Or, perhaps I should print out the slides, mark them up on paper, and type the changes back in later.

You see, my PDA already has long battery life, a stable OS that doesn't need upgrades, and solid reliability. And it's easy enough for my mother to use.

I frankly don't give a fuck what you think a PDA is for. Everything that you call "complexity", I call "utility". Perhaps you don't need your PDA to play MP3s, show photos, edit a PP presentation, or mess with an Excel sheet. I, however, utilize those features in my daily life.

Go buy a PDA that's right for you. I would recommend the Treo 180, but the screen is crap. Perhaps a Treo 270 would be right.

But don't tell me that I'm somehow wrong because I use a PDA for more than keeping my schedule. And don't tell me that I really want a laptop. My laptop, by the way, is a 3lb Compaq Armada m300. It will never, however, substitute for my PDA.

Re:$129? (now a Grumpy Old Man Rant)

[RevAaron]

Next time, please try reading my whole comment.

The Palm OS is inferior. It does less. However, that dose not mean it is bad.

That said, it does more than enough for a lot of people. ... The Clie is nice, as long as I don't expect too much from it.

Which is about what you say. Not everyone needs a full computer in their PDA. I do. A TI-82 does a lot less than my Sigmarion 3 running GNU Maxima or Zaurus C760 running Octave, but the TI-82 isn't bad. It does exactly what a lot of people need. Likewise, Palm OS devices make great datebooks for many people- but until the OS approaches the power and robustness of Linux or WinCE, I won't use it for anything more than scheduling and reading ebooks.

Your "reasonably portable 5 lb, 12", Unix-based notebook" isn't portable enough for me. I can't fit my iBook in my pocket. But I was able to replace the iBook with a PDA, a device I can have in my pocket with me whenever I need it.

See, different people have different wants or needs. I don't want or need a big, clunky laptop that needs patches. My PDA is about stability. I've had to reset my Clie NX70V and a Palm m130 I had borrowed for a spell twice as many times as I've had to reset any Newton, Zaurus, WinCE device or PocketPC. Maybe I'm pushing it too hard by reading ebooks on it, but it doesn't seem all that unreasonable.

Utility? For me, my computer- be it an ibook or a PDA- is about utility. What else would it be?

Re:$129? (now a Grumpy Old Man Rant)

[angst_ridden_hipster]

I did read your whole comment. I was merely disagreeing with you on the definition of inferior.

Now, if you'd said Palm OS was inferior because it didn't have memory protection, preemptive multitasking, or something along those lines, we could have had a nice happy conversation. I've done Palm development, and have a love/hate relationship with the platform.

My rant differentiating PDA and notebook capabilities was merely my own opinion. I carry a smartphone myself, and love it. Perhaps we're really in agreement about everything but the definition of PDA -- your definition seems closer to a fully functional computer in a tiny form-factor, whereas mine is a more limited machine optimized for a few tasks. Whatever.

(and in answer to your last question ... I'd answer "toy!!")

Re:$129? (now a Grumpy Old Man Rant)

[angst_ridden_hipster]

Man, I hate this type of comment.

Clearly. Well, I warned you, right up there in the subject, that it was a Grumpy Old Man Rant. I feel like I did my part to provide full disclosure that I was going to post a contrarian diatribe.

If you don't need an MP3 player in your phone, you can still buy one with an MP3 player. Here's a tip: don't use it.

Well, here's the deal. I don't much care about MP3 players one way or the other. But each added feature adds to 1) the cost of the device, 2) the number of components that may fail, 3) the power consumption of the device, and in the case of cameras, 4) where I can bring the device without causing problems.

I'm happy to see all the great capabilities of your phone. I'm glad it makes you happy too.

Perhaps you want me to bring my notebook to Blockbuster

No, I really want you to carry an IBM S/360, which is the only appropriate machine for the job. If you're going to do databases, I say do 'em right.

Perhaps you want me to bring my notebook to restaurants so I can show people photos.

Having done this, I don't really recommend it. Young kids have this tendancy to want to push stewed carrots into your keyboard. I'd recommend a Konica Slide Projector (and shooting on Ektachrome).

I use Pocket Slides to collaborate on PowerPoint presentations at lunch.

Hey, while I'm giving advice, I'll say you should really just relax over lunch. Working while eating causes indigestion, stress, and is indicated in numerous other health problems. As for dealing with the slides, I'd say that that Konica projector is still a good call. Less chance of getting hollandaise sauce on the presentation that way.

OK, I take back my previous statement about the IBM and the slide projector. Really, I don't want you to do anything in particular. Except maybe have a nice, peaceful day somewhere where nasty grumpy rants can't annoy you.

I frankly don't give a fuck what you think a PDA is for.

You obviously do, otherwise you wouldn't have felt it necessary to respond with suych vigor.

Go buy a PDA that's right for you. I would recommend the Treo 180, but the screen is crap.

Thanks, but I already have an ancient Kyocera 6035. Like the Treo, the screen is crap, but it meets my needs. Thing's rock solid, does everything I need. Sure, a bit more speed, more memory, and bright colors would be nice, but I don't really need them.

But don't tell me that I'm somehow wrong because I use a PDA for more than keeping my schedule.

I don't recall telling you that. I certainly use my PDA for more than keeping my schedule, and I would hate to be hypocritical about it. And I'll refrain form telling you that you really want a laptop. Even though I suspect you secretly do. Man, those things are cool. Some of those neat 2.8GHz P4s are pretty rad. You know you want one. You know you do...