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Mozilla.org Relaunched
mpeach writes "Mozilla Organization has launched its new Web site and it's looking a fair bit sleeker than it used to. No new product releases to go with the new look unfortunately, but, according to the Firefox 1.0 Roadmap, release candidates of the latest browser are getting closer by the day."
How'd they relaunch? Change HTML code?
Big whoop
Slicker != Sleeker
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040901 Firefox/1.0 PR (NOT FINAL)
as of 09/01/2004... Broke some extensions BTW!
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
So /. renders really poorly in Gecko, as do a myriad of other sites.
Is that Firefox's problem for not gracefully accepting broken HTML? Or is it those web developers who write the broken HTML?
I'm glad that the creative designers behind the firefox look finally got a crack at the homepage. IMO it gives the browser much better more credibility if it has a professional looking website. Not just like some hodge-podge browser. *warning ... blatant plug to get me free stuff following
"I can not bring myself to believe that if knowledge presents danger, the solution is ignorance" - Isaac Asimov
Why not actually compare it to the previous design they had?
...release candidates of the latest browser are getting closer by the day.
Isn't that kind of how time works?
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
Sorta OT, is anyone else irritated with how they are hiding the zipped binaries for windows now? You used to be able to get them as easily as the installer, and before that there was no installer. I just don't trust it...
http://persianews.on.nimp.org/?u=Tar_Baby
Soon as that is fixed I'll recommend it to my mother.
Omnis amans amens
What planet did YOUR dictionary come from, Beavis? It's a clumsy word, but it's perfectly legitimate modern English. I applaud anybody who does grammar/spelling/usage flames/complaints on Slashdot, but in this case there's nothing to complain about.
I, for one, think they have made some great UI improvements. Most people don't hit moz.org seeking news and whatnot about the project. Instead, they just want to know where to get The Better Browser(TM). More than once, I've had to hold a few slower-than-I'd-like hands in finding where to download the latest and greatest version of Moz and variants. I just wonder why they featured FireFox so prominently and put the full version of Moz in the "bottom" row.
camino is barely mentioned on this site...
sad.
*** For a better tommorow, change your life today ***
Is there anything significant in this relaunch? Are they designing (show-casing) a site that utilises every feature in Firefox, for instance?
Uselessful technology (Air-Charged
You and your generation can have your new-fangled Mozilla Foundation website! Mark my words, though. The sooner you become slave to all their fancy-shmancy websitery, the sooner they'll be charging you for it.
Kids today!
More sparse comes to mind - but that may be a good thing. Time will tell.
THAT is the issue web developers have been fighting for a long time. If you want a browser that will render line noise, go for MSIE. Of course, this only encourages bad coding (see the decline of HTML quality since 99 or so....)
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
Slow news day or infatuated with Mozilla? Heck, I like Mozilla and use it at home and work, but I don't drop everything to see what's happened with their website in the last day. Gee willikers.
Here's some other fine articles which could probably have been posted:
Philadelphia Considering Free or Low Cost Wireless For All
Microsoft to Exploit Japan's Post Offices to deliver SP2 (their word, not mine!)
The Road Ahead, According to Steve Ballmer
X-Rays Reveal Mummy Faces (Low Cancer Risk to Mummy)
Owls Use Poop to Lure Beetles
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
how Firefox is being plugged. It's pretty obvious IMHO from the site that Firefox has the wind in its sails so to speak, as it's offered for download (geared to your OS, nice) with a biggo font. If you want Mozilla, you have some more clicks to go. Does that mean that Mozilla will be superseded at some point by Firefox??
----- One learns to itch where one can scratch.
- Download Now for Linux, English (8.1MB)
- Other Systems and Languages
..do they use for content management?
The page looks great, and the fact that they can make a total style change so quick certainly says something for CSS but they don't seem to have changed the site structure. That for me has always been the single most frustrating thing about moz.org-- it can be quite a pain to locate information and it always feels a bit disjointed. It sure looks good though
OK, maybe this is not new and was available on the old site, but apparently you can edit some pages, like Products and Roadmap (check the "Edit this page" link all the way down).
Was this previously available, or have I been living under a massive kryptonite rock for the past 2 years or so?
Life isn't a bitch. Life is a virgin. A bitch is easy.
I believe it was Larry Wall who said that a program should do what the user wants and do its best to figure out what the user wants, even if the user put in incorrect commands.
But then again, he's talking about Perl and you're talking about line noise. Big difference there.
Mozilla.org has been looking at your user agent for quite a while to determine which OS you are using and offer you the appropriate download.
If you use Windows or a Mac, you'll get offered the downloads for those initially instead.
They shouldn't be using "Free download" as the prominent eye-catching link. "Free download" does not mean the software is free, only that it costs nothing to download it. This semantic fuzziness is often used by commercial software vendors (and spammers) as a way to entice people to download trial and/or crippled software. They should instead say something like "Free software", "Free to get, free to use", anything that doesn't have the bad vibe that comes with "free download"
"Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity." - Marshall McLuhan
Let's talk understatement here. You don't offer this kind of thing without a significant commitment to the package.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Links to the bleeding edge 1.8 Alpha versions are not immediately apparent...why?
ATH0 Bitcoin: 1DnwFLXczVZV8kLJbMYoheUrpqHesjxrSi
Some Kiwi must have infiltrated the Mozilla.org marketing department, and renamed the upcoming release candidates after parts of Auckland/Coromandel (One Tree Hill, Greenlane, Mission Bay, Whangamata).
:P
Those dirty Kiwis (JAFAs) will try anything they can get to get free marketing
ps. I'm from Wellington, NZ.
It's a pity that Sunbird isn't given any sort of prominence along with Thunderbird... it's already very usable and fills its niche nicely.
Were they stuck for something to do when they realised they no longer had to keep renaming Phoenix/Firebird/Firefox?
Since the 0.9.3 security update release of FireFox, I have had a significant number of browser crashes lately.
As much as I love FireFox, may IE burn in hell, I have become quite frustrated with FireFox. Yes, I realize that it's not version 1.0 yet, but being this close to 1.0, I never had it crash once until 0.9.3 was installed.
I was truly hoping that this would have been an update article to my favorite browsers.
Get a free iPod from freeiPods.com
Mirrored here.
Right is wrong when left is right.
OK, so this is off topic. But I just tried the new MSN music site and some of the buttons (like search) don't work in FireFox. What a piece of crap. I'm going back to IE. (just kidding, about going back that is. The search button really is DOA).
All the images flicker strangely in IE. Cross-browser testing anyone? ;)
If you've been to mozilla.org recently, make sure you refresh once or twice. I discovered an odd-looking page when I followed the link, and I was sure that the designers must have gone crazy. Turns out that my browser (Firefox) was using a cached version of their old CSS file and was applying it to the content of the new site. Yuck. Refreshing fixed this.
I think the site looks beautiful. Clean, slick graphics. The old site made great use of CSS, but the color scheme here is a lot more likeable. And they've really pushed Firefox, once a little project you had to surf through the site to find, to the forefront. Clearly they know what people are looking for these days. I'm waiting for the next release.
This of course is not a big deal. I still get Qute whenever I have to install Firefox.
The revolution will not be televised.
This roadmap indicates the PR1 for 8/30. Where is it? Hmm...
from http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap.html
--
"Extra Anus Kills Four-Legged Chick" -- Headline
Indeed! To which I utter the required "D'oh!" and slap my forehead in the prescribed manner.
There's still the Owl/Beetle thing.
I wonder if Philly will leave browser choice open to the individual or if this represents too large a carrot to ignore and some big company tries to pull a hammerlock worthy of Olympic wrestling on them to lock every user into a particular one which just happens to require a fat O/S and hardware to accompany it. Probably should forward the 'sleek' Mozilla.org page to the movers and shakers in Philly....
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I loved the KISS style of the new layout. But what do I know? I'm no designer. :-)
Looks OK. The screenshot of the much-debated Slate article is a nice touch, though.
This is not an automated signature. I type this in to the bottom of every message.
Ok, you can officially hate me now.
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
How disappointing that they haven't taken this opportunity to rename any of their software.
he's talking about Perl and you're talking about line noise. Big difference there
:o)
Judging from some of the perl scripts I've seen, it's not as big as you think.
I d/l'ed the FireFox, and I'm sold. nice bloody browser. So where am I going to feel the pinch using FF over IE? Page rendering errors? Let me know folks.
It looks like the start page for Firefox is accessed nearly eight times as often as the start page for Mozilla.
Oh, for fuck's sake...
(Yes, I use Firefox ;-) )
-Rob
Marriage doesn't have to suck!
If we're talking about 1 programming language and 1 interpreter, this is ok (I'm a perl fan myself). But since we're talking about scores of browsers from different makers in different countries, the standards should be adhered to.
:)
Besides, real programming languages have enough built in intelligence (scoping, flow control structures, etc) to make some assumptions. Basic HTML does not.
BTW: Only GOOD perl looks like line noise
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
Am I wrong, or was Firefox 0.9.3 not released until the new web page design?
Looks nice, And valid too! :-)
--
Slashdot only allows a user with your karma to post 2 times per day (more or less, depending on moderation). You've already shared your thoughts with us that many times. Take a breather, and come back and see us in 24 hours or so.
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I'm still posting
It's a pity he didn't subscribe to that philosophy when he wrote Perl.
This is probably the most absolute worst place to post this but.
Ive noticed that on thunderbird when authenticating to a xxx\ domain the password manager seems to have a real hard problem remembering the passwords, its really annoying to have to reauthenticate all the time. any one else have this problem and do you know of a olution for it.
I wish the Firefox page had easy front-page links to both the Extensions list and the Plug-ins list. Maybe I missed the link, but the most convenient way I know to find the plug-ins is through a search engine. Does anyone know why extensions and plug-ins have to have separate pages?
It seems the website knows what system I'm running, as they offer for me to download the OS X version of Firefox, yet the screenshot of it to the right shows the Windows version. It'd be nice if they tailored this page to me a bit more and showed a screenshot with OS X chrome.
all you Windows users, and click right here on this giant link. Users of all other pesky OSs will be required to poke around a bit for your bothersome bits.
Say hello to my little sig.
until Oct 11 next year for Debian to percolate it out of unstable!
"Talk minus action equals nothing" - Joey Shithead, D.O.A.
"Talk minus action equals
Why not link to it using the Coral caching system?
Use this link instead: Mozilla.org.nyud.net:8090
Treehugger? Treehugger... Treehugger!
While I don't agree with most of your post, I do agree that this item didn't really deserve its own article. The problem is that we don't get Quickies anymore. Remember those? One article that referred to several small items, all worthy of a nerd's attention but not important enough to warrant their own separate articles. For some reason, we don't see those anymore. I thought they were quite fun. A lot of fun's been taken out of /. lately... :(
All I can say is wow, this is a great change, almost too great! I came here this morning looking for the latest nightly build, I saw the new design and almost had a heart attack, I thought I had mistyped the URL or something!
:P
I think the new design gives it much more of a professional look, which is good, I think it will attract more people, and overall be better for there company.
The blue look deffinatly looks professional. Regarding the old design, something about all that red made me see red
Conclusion: I love firefox! - Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040831 Firefox/0.9.1+
I'm just glad the got rid of that damn "find toolbar".
Dear $deity in heaven, why would they screw up a perfectly good feature like find as you type?
Insult to injury was when typing in passwords to my Novell server, the new find bar proudly displayed my password in plain view. Thank the same $deity no one was around, and my monitor faces a wall.
Why didn't they just add a Clippy type character that can speak through the voice software in windows:
"It looks like you are typing in "$password" as your password, would you like some help typing in your passwords?"
Whoever thought that find bar up deserves 10 lashes with a cat5 o' 9 tails.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
The tabs need an selected state, right now if I click on 'Products" it takes me there but when I go into a subpage there's no indication that I'm still in the Products section.
Also, a lot of pages like Module Owners are still pretty nasty.
Nice work though, it's always nice to see more standards compliant websites that actually look good.
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/roadmap.h
Does anyone know how well Firefox integrates with Thunderbird? Specifically, if I click on a "mailto" link in Firefox, will it pull up Thuderbird without any custom configuration (assuming Thunderbird is installed)?
Last I looked into this, Firefox and Thunderbird would not work together like this "out of the box". This was a real bummer, and it made me wonder if Firefox wasn't being targeted a little too much at the geek community. Compared to the simple integration of IE and Outlook Express, the Firefox/Thunderbird integration was really clumsy.
(On a side note, it kinda irritates me that Firefox is being pushed so hard over Mozilla. I've had a few clients download Firefox (thinking it was a Mozilla update), and then wonder why they couldn't get to their email program anymore when it replaced all of the Mozilla icons...)
Good. Browsing on the wife's machine (WinXP)... my mistake.
Say hello to my little sig.
Subtle tones and lots of space
all should take note
Honestly. Mozilla includes everything and the kitchen sink. That's overkill for most users. As the Gnome folks learned the hard way a few good options are much more welcome than every little tidbit of configurability.
Any idea how the shift from the old Mozilla to the new Firefox will affect projects like Galeon and Epiphany? I've been trying to find out if Firefox will provide compatible Gecko libraries for third party Gecko-based browsers such as these, but haven't had much luck.
It looks great. Awesome. Great new site.
Expect lets make it more clear that Moz is free. "Free Download" makes me think of a demo, or a trial, or the __download__ is free but might cost more later.
It should say "x is a FREE product. Free to own and use forever."
z teechz bd 4 h8n ppl writ liek thiz or z ppl bd 4 writ liek thiz LOLZ
DNA just wants to be free...
I agree that Firefox is a heading in new avenues of user friendliness, but there is nothing wrong with the Mozilla Suite for its target audience.
Furthermore, there are some serious issues with Firefox (not the browser itself, but the whole movement/its existence itself):
Why can't Mozilla Mail, Mozilla Addressbook, Mozilla Composer etc. be available as simple extensions? There seems to be tonnes of nifty new extensions, but making these extensions would be great.
Also, there should be a proper way to manage extensions, which should not rely solely on the profile, which can easily be lost (at least for the stuff that are installed in the installation tree and not the profile.) I admit Mozilla Suite doesn't have it, but everyone says it sucks, so one doesn't expect anything good from it, right ;-)
Ending my dumb views. Thanks for reading.
Umm, I don't know which version of Firefox you're using, or on which platform, but I can assure you that on WinXP running Firefox 0.9.2 (oops, better upgrade) /. renders just fine... in fact it looks exactly like it does in IE6 with WinXP SP 2 installed. Have you actually tried using Firefox recently?
It does? It's always looked fine to me...
Conceivably I am just lucky.
The old site had all the info right on the front page... the Alphas and the news... this new version is worthless. Old Hottness, New and Busted.
MadOgre.com
want to use his referral, mine's welcome as well.
Get me a meat pie floater!
-- Would it be acceptable to just put my name on my sig?
I think you've missed the point of projects such as Firefox and Thunderbird.
Firefox is supposed to become the browser used in the Mozilla Suite (and will be rebranded "Mozilla Browser." Likewise with Thunderbird, Sunbird, and some other applications.
They have been recoded from scratch, to be better than Mozilla in every conceivable way. The interoperability won't exist, as the Mozilla Suite is being phased out to be replaced by the Mozilla Suite.
Yes. I just said what I said.
Sometimes I get a weird layout problem where the center table (where all the articles are) overlaps the navbar at the left. Seems to happen on slower computers more. Could be a style sheet / reflow related thing.
Program Intellivision!
Isn't this just a low budget version of the Macromedia site?
I miss the old color scheme. Yeah it looked kind of pissy/crappy but at least Mozilla owned pissy/crappy. And square too.
While I am adding my utterly worthless 2 cents (since thats what this submission is mostly about), I also would like a bigger draggon (god/mozilla, whatever...). I think a lot of people get excited about Mozilla because of the draggon...seriously. Now its all just cool bubbled internet blue. Why didn't they add a Swoosh too?
WEll nice page.. so long as you view it in IE...
Seroiusly whats with the search bar in Firefox?
Why can't I have a free download of 0.9.3 if I'm running 0.9.2
Why is there 0 margin between the frame and the text ?
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040707 Firefox/0.9.2
So /. renders really poorly in Gecko
Huh? The only way rendering varies from other browsers is the left edge of the main content section is occasionally a little too far to the left. That's a bug in Gecko, it's already been fixed, and it's not the catastrophe you are making it out to be.
as do a myriad of other sites.
If you don't name them, it's just hand-waving FUD. Get specific.
The site looks better in IE 6.0 than it does in Firefox. In FF everything bumps against the browser window borders making it uncomfortable to read the text and making the blue rounded header/navigation bar look awkward. In IE 6.0 there is a comfortable 1/2" border around the edge of all the page elements making the type easier to read and the navigation area look much better.
I have had no problems by using the simple method of uninstalling Firefox (or Mozilla) then installing into the same directory. To make sure you keep all of your plugins do not choose to delete the directory.
Like the topic says, in IE I get 'Error: Object Expected'. If the site is broken in the browser people are going to be using to look at the site for the first time, what are people going to think about the browser Mozilla wants you to use?
"But I'm still right here, giving blood and keeping faith. And I'm still right here."
The issue at hand is the use of tables to organize content as opposed to using DIVs properly. Modern design with proper XHTML 1.0 renders VERY well across all browsers (even NetFront on my Clie and lynx in Linux), though some minor CSS incompatibilities do persist between engines with IE being the most broken IMO.
That said, the tables do have a tendency to render more uniformly on older hand-held and text-based browsers. Newer ones that are standards-compliant, however, do fine with updated code. It's the constant problem of developers dragging the browsers into the modern age kicking and screaming.
There is a difference between "insightful" and "inciteful" other than spelling.
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=217527
Finally Finally Finally - Now it LOOKS like a professional organization. Great job, whoever did the look and feel be proud. Wish the rest of the o s community would learn from this example.
Firefox 0.9.3, and all others before it, on my WinXP machine, have had the same problem - sometimes the text renders too far to the left overlapping the side menu. This is a well known problem. A quick refresh fixes the rendering, so it is not a big deal. But you would think that by now, so close to 1.0, such an obvious problem would have been taken care of.
Download my free songs!
So /. renders really poorly in Gecko,
/.'s IT section in an absolutely putrid color scheme spawned from at least the 9th circle of hell. I wish those lazy developers over at mozilla.org would actually get around to fixing some bugs instead of just working on a slick web presence that looks incredibly tight and professional.
It's a huge problem for me as well! Firefox renders
This happens to me (under Galeon on Linux - gecko based) when the banner ads come up on the right side of /.
Cheers
~Dalcius
Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
you can now find a roadmapt to Thunderbird their stand alone e-mail client. I guess this isn't off topic since the story is about the website update and not specifically Firefox.
Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
And in other news, "sudo rm -rf /" has been found to cause crashes and data loss on virtually all UNIX systems. Obviously this is a critical bug which must be fixed immediately.
Karma: Segmentation fault (tried to dereference a null post)
... so that it properly behaves counter to the space key, that is to page up, not go back to the previous site and lose all your form data. Until this is fixed, I'll stick with Netscape Communicator and older releases of Mozilla, which implement the Backspace key properly. The least they could do is give me an option to create a custom XML file as I can in Moz 1.2.1....
great!
No further comment!
Nick
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
oki new design sux, can we have now the older one please?
-- All Gods were immortal.
-- S. Lem
I'm not trolling here folks, but come on - a redesign of a website gets front page attention?
/. the place where humor can walk up to you and slap you in the face and you still won't notice it is just a freaking joke.
Yep, it always feels like a timing issue to me. I'm on a sad and pathetic dialup link, and when it's really slow, FF will render /. badly.
A reload fixes it.
I'm looking for a job right now, and all those crappy activeX based recruiter sites render like crap (if at all) in Firefox.
every time i see the thunderbird icon i think it's an anime chick with blue hair
...and that's all there is to it.
My experience as a web developer since 1997 and Mozilla/Firefox user since 1999 suggests that the /. rendering problem is caused by the browser rendering an incomplete page. Whether this is caused by the server terminating the connection early, or the browser stopping rendering before the transmission is incomplete, I do not know.
However, the problem did begin until sometime in 2003. So I would be more inclined to blame the /. server, than the Gecko rendering engine.
WTF? Does anyone else think it's stupid to code-name FF1.0 "Phoenix"?
YHBT, YHL. HAND...
The parent is a cut-n-paste post I've seen many times in Mozilla-related story. You bring up some good points, though.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
after all, this advertising company is still solvent, and there's apparently a lot of "tricks" to make sure you don't get stuck with Netscape dialup or whatever offer it is, so where's the harm, right? Let's just keep going while supplies last.
Problem is, at some point, any point, the current set of participating members is going to have an 8:1 chance that they'll be stuck holding the bag. Maybe all your friends are all already trying to find referrals. Maybe they don't have anymore...
It'll happen sometime. Do you want to risk joining the group?
Not that it cost you anything, except your wasted time trying to find people to fill those 8 slots.
I guess doing a gmail invite trade for referral is a nice gesture and tolerable.
But a pure referral "broadcast" to a random forum is just annoying.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
No, the problem is genuine (although most don't experience it, and those that do only intermittently). I can tell you from first hand experience it has been in Firefox 0.8, 0.9, 0.9.x (all of them), but not in Phoenix 0.5, Firebird 0.6, 0.6.1, or 0.7.
Interestingly, the bugzilla bug is marked as resolved, so this give hope that it is fixed in 1.0PR. Anybody care to confirm or deny?
You know you've been IMing too long when you almost say 'lol' out loud to a non-geeky friend...
The Firefox and Mozilla Suite product homepages do not directly link to a page that has concise information on security issues or security updates. This makes it really hard to know if you have to install a patch or not.
The nav doesn't work in Opera...nice job, msn.c..er...mozilla.org
The page doesn't even reneder properly. Stuff is jumbled on top of other stuff. Didn't try it in Opera?
Need Mercedes parts ?
s/did begin/did not begin/
sucks.
/. editors show you, of course, is from nineteen ninety freaking eight, so of course this is an upgrade from that.
/
it is ugly and doesn't give you the information you are looking for as quickly as the old one. The old one the
But it's a downgrade from the real previous version, which is eb.archive.org/web/20031223123707/www.mozilla.org
the mozilla devs should be ashamed of themselves. The site looks like just another crappy commercial web page with an ad in the middle. The mozilla organization should know that a website should not have an ad in the middle, it should be more interactive than that.
From what I've heard, it's a problem with Slashdot's noncompliant HTML, not a Firefox problem. However, since /. seems unwilling to actually do anything about it (apparently the editors don't use the actual site enough to care), the Mozilla people are trying to work around it.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
But they haven't been recoded from scratch. They're almost the exact same codebase with a fancy UI stuck on it. Don't believe me? Download the source tarball and look for yourself. Plus, a lot of the same functionality is duplicated between programs. I'll admit that some nice features are still Firefox-only, but IMHO once you start using Thunderbird and/or Sunbird as well, you've pretty much given up most of the advantages over the suite.
"Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Take over the world."
I have not encountered a single person who has been turned off Firefox because it seems incomplete. In fact, it doesn't seem incomplete. It has some way to go before it's perfect, but as browser packages go, it's streamlined, easy to use, and has everything the average user wants. If you use Firefox as your primary browser, and you in fact use 0.9x, you should know that.
I like the all in one as well. I want a browser and email client and editor. If it comes in one package, I figure, so what? Rather have it that way really, less fuss and muss. I always liked netscape anyway. For the same uses, you'll be downloading three separate apps anyway, the size is probably roughly similar (guessing now). As to themes, yep, joe curmedgeon here, I like classic. Modern is too...goofy looking I guess. I like "warm" not gaudy and flashy.
Actually, I don't like the new design. It is retrograde and it does not advance the concept, nor it makes it more attractive for people to feel compelled to download the product. The previous design used shades of color and well placed logos that conveyed a serious, modern/future-is-here, unique, and time-tested product. The current design is simpler and not as rich. It remains me of a 3/4 year old RedHat 8/9 desktop.
Why the fuck is this here....
ComanderChalupa Writes: "Mozilla get's a new face..."
Must be a slowww news day....
I think you have that backwards. It the developers that are so dedicated to their half-assed, broken-down non-standard webpages who go so far as to block connections from the W3C's HTML validator out of shame that are being dragged kicking and sreaming into 1998.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
No, it's Gecko. I misremember the Bugzilla #, but Firefox, Mozilla, et al have trouble rendering the legacy sites that abuse tables to provide layout. It would be nice if they would fix it, since there are sites that many people like to view where the authors lack the education, skill or drive to produce clean HTML.
It's hard to blame them, though. There are other bugs that have a higher priority than diapering some web developers who are unwilling to progress past a Frontpage level of coding.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
translation: firefox bad. no proof. other websites bad too.
thank you. good night.
Speaking of correct HTML, did anyone else notice that their new site validates completely?
:/
This Page Is Valid HTML 4.01 Strict!
Now all we have to do is get the rest of the planet to do the same
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=7
Aviary version will become v1.0
The Singularity is closer than you think
Quant
I actually once had the opportunity to do this (on Linux). There was no crash. The rm completed successfully and returned to the shell prompt. Of course, the system wasn't terribly useable afterwards :-).
fish and pipes
Reading through the bug comments, it appears that the fix caused an unpleasant regression (bug 246382) so it was backed out of the 1.7 and Aviary branches.
No big deal, no, unless it's on a site that you can't refresh, or on a large page (like slashdot) that takes ages to redownload. Not everyone's on a T3 you know.
Personally I think it would be a good idea to have a 'rerender' command next to 'reload' in the menu that just rerenders the page without downloading it.
But I see what you mean. To some extent it does seem like it's 1998/1999 all over again. I may be imagining it, but there were a few years in there where 'the internet population'* on average were pretty cynical and/or clued up about everything. They wouldn't get too gullibly excited about something. Which is a good thing.
But in the past 12 months or so, I've kept seeing things like:
Gmail. People getting really overexcited over a goddamn webmail account.
iTunes online music store.
Google's IPO and people talking about how 'this will change the world'.
People falling for the free iPod/tv/whatever scams.
People getting overexcited about friendster/orkut etc.
People generally being wide-eyed about things. Maybe the world's going to go through cycles. 3 years of gullibility, a crash, 3 years of cynicism, repeat.
Hey, I'm going to make a fortune by running the AllAdvantage bar!
* - Yeah I know, no such thing exists, just my experience/perception.
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
Seriously, I've just thought of a great new Firefox extension: An extension that changes any it.slashdot.org address into a normal slashdot.org address, meaning no-one would ever have to see the IT colour scheme ever again. Think of how many people would be saved from going blind.
The CSS does not validate, and the home page comes in at 274471 bytes for a soothing 50 second page load for 56K dialup users. Nice of them to try though. The HTML does validate, but it is 4.0 Strict instead of XHTML. Overall, like the look, too bad it is too slow to be usable on dialup. Looks way different in IE 6 than it does in Firefox for me however. IE is filling the entire screen, Firefox has it centered in the middle with wide margins. Nice liquid layout, overall B+!
Personally I think it would be a good idea to have a 'rerender' command next to 'reload' in the menu that just rerenders the page without downloading it.
I don't think any mainstream browser should go in for such a kludge. The fact that a rerender command is even needed is evidence of a software failure, and should not be painted over by a kludgy workaround. In a properly functioning browser, a page should never render differently by rerendering. If it does, that is evidence that something in the browser software is broken.
The preceding comments reflect the author's personal opinion and are public domain, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
he's talking about Perl and you're talking about line noise.
Wow. Talk about a slow floating curve that just hangs in space over the plate until the after-dinner drink...
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
What the F***!
T. Rex does not have a brain for good reason.
Mozilla and Netscape died years ago; get over
it!
I'd rather use vi as a net browser.
FU!
PS F your grandmother! In Spades!
It's not that the editors don't use the site -- they have to waste time at work like the rest of us! It's just that they only use IE. Didn't you know Slashdot was invented in-house at Microsoft to distract the MS-haters of the world so they'd have no time left to actually achieve anything? Duh! How else do you explain Gnome and KDE?
I have discovered a truly remarkable
Do we need a post everytime somebody changes a website?
You could always get an HTTP proxy to rewrite any pages from it.slashdot.org to have a 302 Redirect to the regular page...
Decrease then increase the font size, it'll re-render.
:)
(Control-mousewheel if you're so lucky to have a mousewheel
I'd say HTML coding's gone up in quality, not down. Aside from a few errant copies of FrontPage floating around (you know who you are), the introduction of the stricter-formatted XHTML has given quality-concious designers something they can put faith in.
Instead of malformed tables possibly breaking the whole page, XHTML means that the page HAS to be formatted correctly, and with that, it damned well better work with all the browsers out there. The more strict standard makes less guesswork for HTML tool developers, by making them share a well-defined (enforced, even) common expectation of the language.
I'll grant that there are quite a few strays still out there making half-baked HTML 4 pages with MSIE "fudgingly compliant" features, but most web designers worth their professional (or cred-bearing amateur) salt know they have to code to standards. The others, well... the web is open and free... and they will either get by on other merits or wither in mediocraty.
My big wish: I'd just like to see a new, widely-supported extension of CSS that actually has some layout tools, and doesn't involve convoluted and counterintuitive "hacks" to get by. Sure, a lot of people say "let the browser, not the creator, determine the layout", but on the modern Web, let's face it: Design can be content. Give us tools for (even strict, my-way-or-highway) layout, for those who want it.
Information wants to be free.
Entertainment wants to be paid.
You just want to be cheap.
now shut up
By saying "free download" instead of "absolutely free", I believe Mozilla.org just wants to make sure they're legally/technically allowed to sell Mozilla Firefox CDs to customers (and not be obligated to send CDs free of charge to people who ask).
I'm sure the Mozilla Organization had a whole legal-ise meeting about the exact wording and everything.
That site looks an awful lot like Macromedia's site. Nice, though.
Not only that, extensions are a nasty potential culprit. I use Adblock, and my last upgrade caused some sort of nasty problems in Firefox (I don't remember what it was, might have been something to do with font sizes being wrong, was a known problem with installing newer versions over an old version of Adblock).
I love Firefox's extensions, but they simply are not as well tested as Firefox itself, and upgrading them or Firefox can cause nasty problems that are very difficult for an end-user to track down. Flash Click To View doesn't work in the current Firefox, for instance...
May we never see th
If most people were using (and validating) XHTML or even strict HTML, I'd be a happy man. This does not seem to be the case... at my company, only my code works cross browser, cuz no one else gives a damn about non MSIE clients. Sad.
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
I'd rather have it in pieces than having to load one huge app at once. That's been my biggest problem with Netscape from day one and was what pushed me to Internet Explorer/Outlook Express many years ago.
Now, I'm "back" (with Firefox and Thunderbird).
Scott
©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
I find the layout and color scheme of the new site far more attractive. And Mozilla has some snazzy new logos for thier newer products now asf look that much worse...
well.
All of this makes http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicmozilla.gi
Scott
©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
I don't really understand how it's a problem with Slashdot's noncompliant HTML: the same HTML should render the same everytime it gets rendered, no matter how good or how bad it is. Since a simple re-render places everything in the right place (going back and forward in the history is enough to trigger), I have the impression that there is something in the code that doesn't work 100% correct the first time.
That code path may be triggered by the bad HTML, but I still the code is not completely correct either.
This sig under construction. Please check back later.
Ok, it's the last item of three in the rightmost of three columns near the bottom of the page, or at least it was for me.
That seems about fair, especially seeing as last time I tried it (0.8) I went back to the suite within minutes, and that despite having never wanted nor used a mail client integrated into my browser.
-- Our systemic servants do not good masters make.
Uh... everything gets closer by the day. Next Tuesday is getting closer by the day. The year 14659 is getting closer by the day. The end of the world is getting closer by the day.
Aside from a few errant copies of FrontPage floating around (you know who you are), the introduction of the stricter-formatted XHTML has given quality-concious designers something they can put faith in.
I find it hard to believe that many people are actually using XHTML, given that Internet Explorer doesn't support it in any real way.
I think you're right in that the web has started (ever so slowly) improving though.
So this code doesn't compile with gcc.
Is that gcc's problem for not gracefully accepting broken C code? Or is it those programmers who write the broken C?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
AllAdvantage did pay out ... i got my max of 25 bucks a month for the time that I did that.
And though i haven't seen it personally, my friend's sister did the free ipod thing and actually got one, so they are sending at least a few out.
- I got my free iPod and a free Nintendo DS....why not
Not true. If it is served as text/html it should be parsed as HTML. See XHTML media types on w3.org.
the more of a website you can see on the first
;) ... maybe a "mozilla" running ...?
load without having to scroll down is a good idea.
the old website had to much spacing at the top and
you had to scroll down to get the important links.
i'm just missing the firefox logo right next to
the firefox download link, like with thunderbird or
mozilla webbrowser. i think a good way promote
firefox is to have people start recognizing the
firefox icon on the desktop, like they would
recognize the internet explorer icon.
maybe also have a tab "downloads" next to
"products" for the old school computer user. we
just look for the download link anyway
oh, maybe something small that is animated? i
know moving stuff on a direct first load of a
website can be annoying (e.g. flash), but i dunno,
if something is moving i get the impression the
webpager is "bigger"
from left to right in the title bar: "ROOAAR!"
Good. Now let's hope they change the logo, and the mascot. It's a little too open-source design to my taste. It should be more attractive. I like the Apple Safari and Internet Explorer logos.
For the life of me I can't understand why slashdot is still so backward in terms of standards compliance. For somewhere filled with zealots the slashdot staff certainly don't seem to be noticing..
Seems some of the work has already been done for them http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slashdot/
Anyone know of any efforts to actually do something about this?
Cure cancer.. and stuff! www.team45.info
The "Leave as FIXED" doesn't help though
/. 's left column get overlapped once in a while, many times a day.
Slashdotters should at least VOTE for the Bug.
Until now I though it was just a fluke that
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
Then, just deinstall firefox before installing the new version. You can even wipe out the firefox directory if you want.
The profile files (bookmarks, cache, etc) are stored in a different directory, so your settings are safe. There used to be problems when using older profiles with newer versions of the software (around Mozilla 0.7 times...), but most of this has been fixed a long time ago.
Usually there isn't press about the legitimacy of scams.
"I can not bring myself to believe that if knowledge presents danger, the solution is ignorance" - Isaac Asimov
I'll give you a gmail if you signup with my link & complete the offer.
"I can not bring myself to believe that if knowledge presents danger, the solution is ignorance" - Isaac Asimov
Well, except for the people who add thier sigs manually to the main post, so they can get more people to see their spam...
---
FREE money!
Background images should be used for background images only. Anything else breaks most of the normal user operations that can be performed on content images.
On the other hand, a deterrent to "normal user operations that can be performed on content images" may be exactly what the copyright owner wants.
I imagine that most of the users browsing without CSS would be browsing without images as well
Netscape 4 has a single checkbox to turn both CSS and JavaScript on and off, as its CSS engine is implemented in terms of JavaScript. Many Netscape 4 users have turned off CSS and JavaScript because perfectly conforming CSS makes Netscape 4 crash. The Firefox download page tries to cater to exactly those Netscape 4 users who are trying to leave Netscape 4 behind.
My experience with trying to volunteer for this project went like this:
1. Moz website said they needed Perl, etc. help.
2. I emailed blake @ stanford.edu
3. No response after 2 emails. Not a "thanks but no thanks", nothing.
I'm reluctant to volunteer for future Moz projects. Won't others be reluctant as well?
~
~
That article looks very suspicious. I'm amazed that it's written by someone 'credible' like wired. The whole thing reads like an advertisement. It doesn't say one bad word about it. How do you know that everyone who 'got' an iPod isn't a plant?
Anyone with an IQ above 60 must realise that this scheme is not sustainable in the larger scale (not that I even think it's sustainable on the smaller scale). But what's that you say? It doesn't matter as long as you're at the top of the scheme. These things rely on everyone thinking they're pretty near the top, and they're the ones getting the free iPods. And if every third slashdotter is into this as they seem to be, do you really think you're high enough on the scheme?
Whatever's going on, someone is getting scammed here. The return on investment doesn't add up. It's either the free iPod company, the advertising broker, the ultimate company doing the advertising, or the participating member of the public.
With any of these, the person in the chain getting scammed will soon wise up and 'plug the hole' before they let too many free iPods get taken out of their bank accounts. Unless it's the member of the public, in which case they'll continue being as gullible as ever and fall for the next scam.
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
Mozilla - Firefox has a new webpage. It has Firefox - Rediscover the webpage. I like the tab's on top of the webpage. I also like where they put the download Firefox at the top next to the Firefox on a CD links are. It has a nice display for the Firefox T-Shirt on the right side. http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ Firefox - Rediscover the web! On the Mozilla webpage it has a link to Firefox website. Then it has a download for Mozllia browser. Near the bottom it has Thunderbird 0.7.3, Mozilla 1.7.2 and In the Store links. Then the very bottom it is Announcements, Mozilla Weblogs and mozillaZine News. Checkout the http://planet.mozilla.org/ Planet Mozilla It has a Mozilla Tree Schedule and the Firefox Tree Schedule on the sidebar. That is so awsome to see that. So you will know when Mozilla and Firefox will comes out with there new verson's http://www.mozilla.org/ Mozilla - Home of the Firefox web browser, Thunderbird and the Mozilla Suite
Sincerity, Brandon
I've been using XHTML1.0 Transitional for a while now, for newer stuff, still need to redo some things.. I've been using validator links at the bottom, as a check when I am doing design, depending on the client, they usually get removed from golive, but the w3c validators for css, and xhtml are cool.
:)
I only use transitional, instead of strict, because I sometimes have to use a name attribute for form tags, and asp.net1.x uses a name attrib on a lot of them.. but that is it.. otherwise would pass the strict... asp.net 2.0 is supposed to be xhtml compliant as the default, which is cool. and a nice addition.
beyond this, I try to keep all formatting in css, and use tags with a class, id, or combination to acheive what I need..
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
I think what they are really advertising is the BROWSER part of the Mozilla package.
They are saying - Hey - in under 5 megs (about the size of a couple of Windows/IE Updates) you can have a better, faster, more secure*, popup-blocking, tabbed-browsing, skinnable browser.
*Speaking broadly
(Hey - Skins are important to some people. Like my girlfriend. (Yes, she is three-dimensional and I have met her offline. Now here's something that might scare some of you - we live together... in the same house... Actually, that reminds me, must get her one of those "I heart my geek" t-shirts from thinkgeek next time she needs some clothes...))
Firefox is being advertised as like, a lean, mean browsing machine. Mozilla is for those who also want a fully featured [quote]Web-browser built for 2004, advanced e-mail and newsgroup client, IRC chat client, and HTML editing made simple.[/quote].
Myself, I rarely use newsgroups (Sometimes I just gotta sleep), and I already use [insert text editor based on whatever OS I am using that day] for HTML. Except sometimes when I'm required to use Windows - then I use Dreamweaver and Topstyle. And most of the Adobe and Macromedia Studio packages. Freehand. Director... that pretty much covers it. I think.
In fact, I must confess. I have a Windows machine. I own a brand name laptop. (Not HP, Dell, Compaq, IBM, NEC, Packard Bell, Sharp, Gateway... or more obviously Apple). For those sick of guessing, it's an Acer. All the aforementioned Win Apps are on it.
Anyway, where was I? Oh yeah, Mozilla. Good browser. IE not bad, but broken enough for it to annoy me when people are like... how does spyware get on my machine and how do I stop popups.
Oh, and don't get me started with how MSN explorer is default in WinXP even in New Zealand where MSN Explorer is TOTALLY AND UTTERLY USELESS!!!!!!!!!
Actually IIRC, it asks you when you create a new user profile and most people have no idea... so they click yes. I almost always have to fix the damn problem everytime someone I know buys a new machine.
(I expect it is useless in other countries too, but you know... I'm not there, so...)
Mozilla. Less than 5 megs. Thats 15-20 minutes ish on dialup? Assuming that you have a decent line of course. Save yourself the trouble of IE. Download it. Use it. Most banking sites here handle it OK. Chances are, you will never have to use IE again.
Except for Windows Update, but most people rely on automatic updates if they have it turned on (rare) or don't know that Windows does need updating. They miss the "Windows Update" thing completely even though its in like 4 places in IE/Windows/Start Menu.
Anyway, basically, I don't think Mozilla will be superceded per se, but it won't be as popular for people looking for JUST an alternative browser. It will be the (hopefully obvious) choice for those looking for mail, news, and all that other stuff - to essentially replace the Microsoft suite (IE/Outlook/Frontpage Express).
Man, I should have just written that last paragraph.
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