Slashdot Mirror
Halo 2 Goes Gold
schmiddy writes "This just in -- Halo 2 has officially gone gold as of today. Bungie has confirmed the story with an announcement on their front page. Trailers and such available here ."
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
I guess I'm the only who read this as H.L. 2 announced gold :)
won't have any time for the GF soon...
I can never keep the schedule straight.
I just spent 5 minutes figuring out if Halo 2 will sold on Nov 9th for the PC Platform, and it's not. Looks like UT2K4 is still going to feed my additiction.
Any word on when/if the PC or Mac versions will be published? I hope our wait won't be as long as it was for Halo.
won't have any time for the GF soon...
GF, eh? I suppose you have a copy of Duke Nukem Forever as well?
Sequel to a great FPS game. This does not suprise me one bit.
A computer game has been released. The President isn't scheduled to comment on the momentous event...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Some people poll Slashdot a dozen times a day and expect a larger quanity of news, be it trivial or not.
So we can all argue about why it's being released on XBox, but not PC, extoll how much better it will be than D3, complain about the code not being OSS, point out miniscule contradictions in the screenshots, post mirrors, make jokes, argue about why it's being released on XBox, but not PC, extoll how much better it will be than D3, complain about the code not being OSS, point out miniscule contradictions in the screenshots, post mirrors, make jokes, argue about why it's being released on XBox, but not PC, extoll how much better it will be than D3, complain about the code not being OSS, point out miniscule contradictions in the screenshots, post mirrors, make jokes, bitch about dups, get off into some tangent about video cards, and make jokes.
You're new here, aren't you?
Any sufficiently well-organized Government is indistinguishable from bullshit.
I should preface this comment by saying it is very subjective and should be read as such. I'm making huge generalizations about entire platforms and I don't want to turn it into a debate but rather a discussion.
/endrant
From the first day, I've been given a horrible impression by all modern consoles. PS2, GC, and XBox. My issues is with their controller setups. I absolutely despise the concept of dual joystick and I think the XBox controllers are the worst yet. Many people would surely agree with me that they're oversized and poorly laid out. There are of course third party replacements.
This leads me to a conclusion that PC gaming is just "better" from a usability standpoint. In a PC FPS I get freelook with the mouse, and 5 individual buttons to map (at least on my mouse). On the left, I get movement and strafe as well as any other function I want to bind near those keys. The classic "Quake" layout. And I can change this layout at will. It is far more powerful and far more natural.
Beyond that, PC games have readily available multiplayer over the internet; the apex of multiplayer gaming. Console games are only just now getting this, and some of them are even subscription only.
In short, if I were to purchase Halo, I wouldn't touch the console. I'd get it for the PC. It's just a superior gaming experience. I don't see how the negligible (to me) convenience of plugging in a console and playing the game could at all be anywhere near the gaming experience you get on a PC with its infinitely customizable interface.
In short, if Halo 2 is available for PC (and Linux in my case), I would consider it. But as long as any game remains locked into a console with what is IMHO an inferior interface it won't be worth my time and money.
Tell me, anyone, what is the lure of console games? Is it merely the plug it in and go aspect? Why settle for an inferior user interface? Or am I missing something important here regarding the design of modern contollers? I did like the N64 controller as well as controllers like the Gravis Gamepad Pro. But dual-joystick just isn't a substitute for a mouse and keyboard for me.
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
Everybody but you apparently.
And there's a whole bunch of .wavs on the site if you go digging.
-T
http://www.xbox.com.nyud.net:8090/en-US/halo2/
Is this piece of news yet another subtle form of advertisment?
/ 1539238&tid=98&tid=10
:)
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/10
Nothing to see here, move right along already
Gamers all over the world can't wait to get their hands on it. We love you Bungie!
What is /. coming to when Halo 2, a M$ console game make front page for going gold, but Tribes 3, the best PC FPS ever made only makes it to the games section after hitting the shelves a week early?
Nevermore.
Lure of console games?
1) Not having to wonder if you system can handle said game...it just works
2) Not having to upgrade your system to play said game...it just works
3) Not having to know your system inside and out.
It's gaming for the masses.
Controllers, I love the Xbox and GC controllers (PS2 can suck it) because of the placement of the dual analogs. Your argument "freelook with the mouse" is done with one analog, and the other is movement and strafe, just like any PC setup. Besides that, many games offer custom controller setups (Halo did) if you don't like the default.
The original Xbox controllers were big, they were big enough to be comfortable like a pillow in your hands after a few hours of gaming. Initially I thought they sucked as well, until I used one for a while and realized how well it was layed out.
It's hot in here..I forgot where I was going with this (if anywhere)
What is the etymology of this phrase? For games, it seems like it means that something is final, before shipping. For music, it seems that it has sold a certain number of copies.
I can already feel my fingers and wrists burning from the button mashing that will soon commence.
Carpal Tunnel here I come!
Yes, but how does this relate to the pending release of Duke Nukem Forever?
"Halo 2 is a lot like Halo 1, only it's Halo 1 on fire, ...
going 130 miles per hour through a hospital zone,
being chased by helicopters and ninjas
And, the ninjas are all on fire, too."
--Jason Jones
Bungie Studios
for more sweet ninja action, go for www.realultimate power.net
What you're failing to see, is that console games can be custom tailored to the respective game pad. The halo controls suit the xbox controller perfectly, there are exactly as many functions as their are buttons by design. Extreme customization isn't really required, since every function is mapped somewhere logical. But, you can remap the buttons if you wish.
This makes it easy for someone who hasn't played to just jump right in. The draw back is poor aim.
Other plusses for consoles:
-cheap hardware, don't have to upgrade regularly.
-no fooling around setting up games for you and 3 buddies.
-little fooling around for setting up games for you and 4+ of your buddies.
For these reasons and more(games etc),I've almost entirely ditched my pc for gaming purposes and moved to the xbox.
-Reid
I didn't finish the article, actually, the second paragraph discusses it.
Just give me a keyboard for the X-Box and I would be all set.
No I didnt spell check this post...
Um, have you seen an Xbox controller since the controller 'S' was released? Sure the first one was like holding a pumkpin, but the controller S is in no way too big. Secondly people play console games for several reasons. You don't have to upgrade consantly, some people actually like controllers better, you're not sitting in front of a computer, you can sit on the couch, it's more social and mutliplayer friendly, it's cheaper, games take better advantage of the hardware (for the most part), there aren't hardware/software compatibility issues (plug and play, as you mentioned), better quality control....the list goes on.
That being said, nobody in their right mind will argue that a KB/M combo doesn't offer the pontential for superior control and precision, but that doesn't mean everyone actually likes playing that way. I'd much rather sit on the couch with a controller in hand, looking at a 36 inch television, than having to move my arms all over the place in front of a 19 inch monitor in a chair. While my pc is perfectly capable of playing any of the newest games, i simply have no interest in playing that way, at all. A matter of preference, really. Consoles are just simpler way to play games, in general.
I agree with you 100%.
I'd just like to add one more reason PC games are superior: graphics. 1024x768 @ 76Hz on a 20 inch monitor beats the pants off of a (non-high definition) TV any day. That makes me wonder - anyone know if the current consoles support HTDV?
I swear, if I stare at a console game for longer than 15 minutes, my eyes start watering from the low refresh rate...
std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
Personally I prefer the larger original XBox controller. I don't have large hands, but I don't seem to get cramps in them like I do with the Controller-S or the PS2 controllers.
For me, I prefer a console because it isn't a PC! PC's are incredibly expensive in comparison, and they're a constant battle with keeping up as they evolve so quickly. No thanks! More importantly though, a console is more sociable and fits in with life better. It sits unobtrusively in the living room (where there's no way in hell I would have something as irritating as a PC), and is geared up to playing socially with friends and family when they come over. Playing PC games over the internet is only marginally socialable with friends, but playing with strangers as pseduo-friends doesn't count. For me, the technology (which is an obsession with PC gamers) and game playing come a long way below socialising and lifestyle.
But the Xbox is targeted towrds a slightly older demographic. Try the gamecube, should be right up your alley.
... don't forget the haikus!!!
I am not a moron (computer scientist, run linux intelligently (i.e., from sources and patching config files on the fly, &c.), have a math degree, &c.).
:)
I use a console partly for the plug-and-run aspect, but also for simple economic reasons. I don't want to spend a fortune on gaming, and also prefer for my computer time to be productive (by my own standard). Since I can do all of my work on a relatively cheap machine (P3 or P4 with average video), I don't want to pay a few hundred bucks to upgrade it just for games; I can spend the cash on RAM or HD instead, if I need it.
Ironically, a big part of why I like the console is the "lock-in" factor. Now bear with me: I don't like lock-in per se. However, since the fanbase for a console is secure, I am guaranteed games for several years: even after the hardware has gone by the wayside. That is, I won't be forced to upgrade as often by the software. This is not a competitive strategy for a games company in the computer realm, but it works fine for consoles. Judging from the disappointment many have felt, upgrading for Doom ]I[, I'm on the right track.
This gives me the most bang for the buck I'm willing to spend and frees money for the other fine things in life: MCMC simulations and fine dining.
Then there's something wrong with your eyes.
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
Almost all Xbox games support native 480p (minus about three), some are widescreen 480p, some support 720p, and a very few support 1080i.
There's a torrent for the final weekly update video that was just put out, covering the final weeks of development and release to manufacturing at the game studio, here: http://www.filerush.com/torrents/weeklyupdate_hire s-10-11-04.wmv.torrent
Latest development has been that a set of coordinates for payphones and times were decoded from the site, and people have been going to those payphones, picking them up when they ring, and speaking to "the operator".
Neat, kinda spooky, and coming to a head with the release today.
-T
Xbox and GC both support HDTV, although not all the games do.
So I guess you never watch more than 15 minutes of TV either?
For a FPS, absolutely a mouse and a keyboard are de rigeur. Of course on the PS2, you can actually use a USB mouse and a keyboard for the FPS games. Of course you also get TV quality resolution and color, but when the action is moving fast, you really just don't notice it.
Other games work well with the setup -- my reference is the PS2's DualShock, known also as "god's own controller" (yes, the xbox controller is way too big, it was probably playtested by ham-fisted college guys playing EA sports games). The standard for many games seems to be "move with the left stick, rotate the camera with the right stick". Some are "move with the left, aim with the right", which is distinctly different than the usual "mouse and strafe" due to the fact that the movement controller is analog. Console FPS's tend to have some auto-aim features, typically moving the crosshairs off-center to the target when you're close. On the PC, this would be cheating, but it feels right on the console, and it's just a slight assist, not an aimbot (console gamers can't mix online games with PC, so everyone gets the same "cheat").
In short, blindly translating a FPS to a console interface without accounting for the control scheme is a disaster (see quake), but a well-done port (like half-life) is a good game. It's a different game, yes, but no less fun. Other titles, such as console RPG's, do often lack depth (I must be the only person alive who finds the whole Final Fantasy series irritating, dull, and shallow excuses to demo Square's "l33t cutscene skillz") but then you have games like True Crime or Metal Gear Solid that are just fantastic on console (it's possibly to play MTS without killing a single person. Now that's gameplay).
The plug-and-go ability of consoles is nice. Consoles are also more portable, cheaper, and don't depreciate as fast. Anyone who really likes computer games should consider a console as sort of an adjunct, to get those unique and interesting games you find only on consoles. Case in point, right now I'm hooked on Katamari Damacy on my PS2 (a game that's just perfect for that controller) and it's the most infectiously fun thing since Tetris...
"anyone know if the current consoles support HTDV?"
How can you sit there commenting on PCs vs Consoles when you don't even know one of the main features of a console that was released years ago (XBox)?
"if I stare at a console game for longer than 15 minutes, my eyes start watering from the low refresh rate..."
Do your eyes water when you watch TV too? Or do you sit 1 foot from the screen when you're playing console games?
I would guess the "inferior interface" experience is largely a matter of personal taste. I, for one, have no real issues with the XBox or PS2 controllers and find the dual-joystick configuration quite intuitive and easy to use. It's not quite as good as a mouse for a FPS game, but still functional. For me, FPS are a very limited subset of games I like to play, anyway.
But to answer your specific question of "For a FPS, why would someone choose an inferior interface," I would have to say that, overall, my gaming experience is better on the console. The it-just-works factor is nice. I don't have to wonder if my video card is capable of handling the latest-and-greatest games, or worry if right in the middle of a game that some unstable background process might crash my machine. I have a much superior soundsystem hooked up in my living room than I have hooked up to my computer in the office. My TV screen is nice and big and bright and a comfortable distance away. But, most importantly, it's just simply a lot more comfortable to chill out on my couch for a couple hours fragging my friends and loved ones than on my computer chair.
My biggest gripe controllers is when the joysticks also have a click action. For some reason I always seem to click it down when I trying to pull backwards in a rush. This can be quite unfortunate in some games!
Well I can understand your view on this because I also prefer PC over console when it comes to FPS's. When I first started out playing HALO and SOCOM on those gamepads I could not understand how people could aim. It took me like 20 seconds just to get my crosshair pointed where I wanted it to. But being the stubborn person I am, I kept playing and tried to get good, and my thumbs and wrists got sore. After a while I've become quite proficient at aiming using the controllers. Of course not as good as having a mouse, but reasonably close.
The main thing that lures me to play FPS's on consoles is the social aspect. It's much more fun to watch your friend get pissed off as he falls down a bottomless pit than just seeing someone type "wtf". And it's also fun to talk shit when you beat your roomates 3 times in a row. I hardly ever play single player FPS's on console though. I played Halo's single player on PC, and that's probably what I will do with Halo2.
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
Blue team has the flag.
Where did that grenade come from?
Red team-flag returned!
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
But the beauty of it is if you find such a setup unusable, you can use any controller in a PC. Even an XBox controller with a suitable adapter.IMHO that entire logic is short sighted. PCs are pretty easy to game with and are only getting easier. But whatever floats your boat and gets the games rolling, right?
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
One doesn't see a gold ring like that every day.
Maybe you have little girly hands? Just kidding. The complaints about the original Duke-style large XBox controllers had some merit (personally, I always liked the large controller -- it fit well in my hand, was comfortable for hours on end, and just felt "substantial", like it was a tool rather than a toy). The Akebono (S, smaller controller) that's the standard now successfully addresses the complaints of size while leaving comfort intact. For my gaming goodness, I'd choose an XBox Controller S over a Gamecube or PS2 controller any day. Oh, and third party controllers invariably suck. I don't know why that's the case, but it is.
That's your opinion, of course. The dual joystick approach works quite well for many of us. Maybe we don't have the pinpoint accuracy you do with a mouse (though many accomplished Halo snipers would vehemently disagree), but what matters is that the game is fun to play. Also keep in mind that there are more genres of games than just FPS. PC keyboard+mouse combos work horribly for sports titles, racing titles, action/adventure titles, and even RPGs (console-style like Final Fantasy, not PC-style like Baldur's Gate). Yes, you can buy gamepads for your PC, but these tend to fall into the same category as 3rd-party controllers for consoles -- they suck.
XBox Live! is maturing quite well (it'll be two years old next month; older if you consider the time it spent in beta). While you may dislike the subscription aspect of Live! ($50/year or $5/month, not a huge bank breaker), it does act as a minor barrier to entry, keeping the asshat population in check somewhat (which has been completely negated by the proliferation of 2 month trial cards). For that subscription fee, you get ubiquitous voice support, single sign-on (one nick across all games), cross-game invites, cross-game friends list, and more.
So buy it on PC. Halo has been on PC for quite a while now. This story, however, is about Halo 2.
Hahahahahahaha BREATHE hahahahahahahaha. That's funny. If H2 ever makes it off of the XBox (highly doubtful), you'll never see it for Linux. PC for sure, maybe Mac, but not Linux, at least not officially. You can probably play H1 with WineX or whatever it's called these days, and if H2 ever makes it to PC you'll probably be able to do the same, but there will be no native Linux port.
No more hardware treadmill (you buy a console and you don't need to upgrade for 4-5 years). Wider array of viable genres (when was the last time you saw a playable 2D fighter on PC?). Better control for most game types (FPS
Cost to buy X-Box to play latest iteration of Halo: $150
Cost to upgrade your PC to play latest iteration of Doom: ~$700
I just spent $500 on upgrades on my PC, and Doom 3 still runs horribly at 800x600... sigh.
from the article was that MSN Messenger can grok Xbox Live status! That's cool!
I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you XBox fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a XBox (a 8600/300 w/mod chip) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this XBox, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.
In addition, during this file transfer, Gotham Racing will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even Tony Hawk Underground is straining to keep up as I type this.
I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various XBoxes, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a XBox that has run faster than its Wintel counterpart, despite the XBox's faster chip architecture. My 486/66 with 8 megs of ram runs faster than this 300 mhz machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the XBox is a superior machine.
XBox addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a XBox over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.
Lure Theory 1:
The Lure of paying $150 for a console, instead of upgrading your $2000 desktop machine with a $300 video card and joystick (if you're so inclined, which apparently you're not. I agree with you on this).
Lure Theory 2:
Exclusivity of titles - LOTS of people bought an X-Box JUST to play Halo. Just because it wasn't available on any other platform for the first year. Certainly, this is an artificial benefit, constructed by the gaming industry. But this factor exists, nonetheless.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
That's 2 comments comparing it to watching TV, which is just wrongheaded.
There's a major difference. When watching TV, one focuses on the picture as a whole and every frame is not important. If I blink for an extra sec or rub my eyes, I don't miss anything.
In a game, one has to pay close attention to small subsections of the screen, focusing on individual sprites which may not be bigger than a few pixels if the object is far away. Blinking at the wrong moment or for a slightly extended period can be fatal.
In other words a much higher concentration level is required to play games. The easier it is on my eyes, the better. I spend 12+ hours per day in front of a monitor - my eyes don't need additional stress.
std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
The other element you miss is coop play options. Not just multi, but multi with your friend there.
Halo is my single favorite game for that one reason.
My buddies can come over, sit next to me, and we can play single player or free online multi (xbconnect.com) with ease.
The couch coop is more fun than any other gaming experience, IMHO.
Are you sure about that? XBox certainly supports the 720p and 1080i HD resolutions, but I thought GC was limited to 480p (16:9 or 4:3). If that's the case, then only the XBox supports HD resolutions, and the PS2 and Gamecube are left with 480p.
here ya go
DAMNIT!i read the headline and thought it was Half-Life 2 going gold, you BASTARDS!
The redvsblue.com webserver has gone belly up with a SQL error
There are two main reasons why I've pretty much completely abandoned computer gaming in favor of consoles.
The first reason is that it's just a pain to play games on consoles. I agree that the mouse + WASD is the best way to play first person shooters, but honestly the Halo controls are actually very good. But the endless driver updates, game patches, getting new hardware, etc. is just something I don't really want to be bothered by. I used to think all that "tweaking" was fun, and I know a lot of people get into it. But nowadays, I just want to put the damn disc in and play.
Also, let's face it, playing games on Linux sucks. Yes, it's getting better, and yes, it's doable, but certainly a far cry from plug and play. And plug and play isn't even the situation on Windows.
The second main reason is now I favor multiplayer games. From party games that everyone can play (including the girls that don't play games) to a deathmatch in Halo, I'm the sort of person that really likes social gaming. Writing messages to the other players, or even hearing them through headsets really doesn't compare to seeing and interacting with your competitors in real life. Having four controllers for your xbox is simply better than having the mess of computers and wires in LAN parties. Suddenly, not having the mouse in FPS games doesn't seem so bad.
http://www.talknerdy.org
Although unlike the parent poster, I like the PS2 controller perhaps the best of the current generation, I agree that they're simply superior by nature due to the fact games can expect that you have one.
The grandparent poster may have a point if all you play is FPS's. Joysticks aren't the greatest for aiming by any means. However, out of the 70+ PS2 games, 10+ cube games, 30+ PS1 games, 20+ GBA games, and hundreds of NES/SNES/Genesis/SMS games I have, only a very few of them are FPS's, so this is a moot point.
In short: if you want some real games, get a console, otherwise be happy with your quake clone-of-the-month.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Is a lower-resolution 36 inch television located ~3m away really have an advantage over a high-res 19 inch screen that's 1.5-2 feet in front of you? I think that more important than physical screen size is angular screen size and resolution from your p.o.v.
Of course, I think that more important than the screen is whether I'm sitting on my comfy couch or a rigid computer chair.
Doh!
s/The first reason is that it's just a pain to play games on consoles./The first reason is that it's just a pain to play games on a PC./;
http://www.talknerdy.org
Older GCs have digital outputs suitable for HDTV but it is still 480p...otherwise they wouldn't be selling this
Tell me, anyone, what is the lure of console games?
volume.
people who play a lot of games get consoles. I don't understand it myself, but some people will buy or rent a game a week or every two weeks. If you go through that many games you really have to go the console route. You save money and headaches in the long run.
As for me, I play a very few games. I'm very picky. So, I stay with the PC.
There for a moment, I'd read the headline as Half-life 2 goes gold, got excited, and then wondered what Bungie or Microsoft had to do with it. Oh well.
/Still waiting for Duke Nukem...
The Kerry camp is claiming that Kerry's Halo record is more distinguished than George W. Bush's.
"Do you know what it's like to run down a 12 year old and shoot him in the back, Mr. President? I do!"
So instead you can sit a a monitor for several more hours a day and get your eye strain that way. And it seems you're complaining more about televisions than consoles in this particular case, probably talking about the refresh rate of an interlaced television affecting your eyes, after having clearly admitted that you didn't even know what resolutions these consoles support. That being said, you probably haven't played console games on an HDTV in 480p or higher resolution, which has a completely different resfresh rate alltogether, and is much sharper and smoother = easier on your eyes. Basically, your whole argument is the equivalent of my saying the exact same thing about playing on a computer monitor when that monitor was a nearly-dead peice of crap I bought on sale at Best Buy or Walmart for 69 bucks. Don't knock the console for that; knock your crappy entertainment setup.
They never were. Read the weekly update archives and rumour busting pages on the Bungie homepage. Just rumours man, rumours. Get some real friends and cough up the money for xb live.
For me, its the possiblility of making gaming a social event. I prefer the sports games or the shooters (incl Halo 2) because they lend themselves to a group atmosphere.
I don't have an XBox and I have never played Halo, but I imagine I would enjoy it as much as I did Medal of Honour on my PS2. That is because me and my buddies would get some beer and have a few laughs while playing it.
I find PC gaming is best suited to adventure or RPG games. I played KOTOR on the XBox (my brother has one) and the PC and It was a much better experience on the PC. Other games in this genre could never be ported to cconsole because of the size and comllexity of them. These are good games and the PC gaming community will forever be strong because of them. But I think that playing games in the living room on the big TV with some pals is a unique experience that can not be gained on a console. Can I get three cents back for this nickel?
From the first day, I've been given a horrible impression by all modern consoles. PS2, GC, and XBox. My issues is with their controller setups. I absolutely despise the concept of dual joystick and I think the XBox controllers are the worst yet. Many people would surely agree with me that they're oversized and poorly laid out. There are of course third party replacements.
...
/endrant
...) roughly $755. Lets see you get four people playing Halo on PC for that kind of money. How about sixteen? Toss in about $100 in network equipment and multiply initial cost by four and you're going strong with sixteen people.
Are you off your rocker? Dual joysticks are great. You have 360 degrees of analog input without rasing your thumb. The modern game pad is so diverse that it works well with a plethora of games. FPS, RTS, racing, side scroll, puzzle, flight sim
This leads me to a conclusion that PC gaming is just "better" from a usability standpoint. In a PC FPS I get freelook with the mouse, and 5 individual buttons to map (at least on my mouse). On the left, I get movement and strafe as well as any other function I want to bind near those keys. The classic "Quake" layout. And I can change this layout at will. It is far more powerful and far more natural.
For first person shooters, and nearly no other game type, the mouse is superior. With variable-speed twitch-reaction control you can turn your character in any direction nearly instantaneously. However, you can do almost the same thing with a right-side joystick. But you can't input variable speed walking / straifing with a keyboard - it's pretty much on | off.
Beyond that, PC games have readily available multiplayer over the internet; the apex of multiplayer gaming. Console games are only just now getting this, and some of them are even subscription only.
And this is a reason to not play them at all? How spoiled are you?
In short, if I were to purchase Halo, I wouldn't touch the console. I'd get it for the PC. It's just a superior gaming experience. I don't see how the negligible (to me) convenience of plugging in a console and playing the game could at all be anywhere near the gaming experience you get on a PC with its infinitely customizable interface.
In short, if Halo 2 is available for PC (and Linux in my case), I would consider it. But as long as any game remains locked into a console with what is IMHO an inferior interface it won't be worth my time and money.
Are you insane? Surely you are. The over 4 million people who purchased Halo aren't stupid. Console FPS games can be quite excellent. That's not to say that they all are, or that they're as good as the "PC" FPS selections, but you said yourself that it's still fairly early on in the market.
Tell me, anyone, what is the lure of console games? Is it merely the plug it in and go aspect? Why settle for an inferior user interface? Or am I missing something important here regarding the design of modern contollers? I did like the N64 controller as well as controllers like the Gravis Gamepad Pro. But dual-joystick just isn't a substitute for a mouse and keyboard for me.
The N64 controller was pure shat.
The lure to console gaming is that FOUR people can play Halo at (what was an initial cost of
TV: $300
XBox: $300
Halo: $50
3x controllers: $105
If you don't understand why people play FPS games on console, you've never taken the time to experience it for yourself. Halo is undeniably amazing. One of the best games of all time. And I don't even like the XBox!
Now, for your style of console gaming you should pick up a PS2 and Red Faction 2, along with various other games that support a keyboard and mouse. The PS2's USB ports are limited in their developer use, but the occational game to take advantage of the extra hardware are big winners in my mind.
Console vs Computer is a cost battle more than anything.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
You really, honestly can't be farther from the truth. In those rare instances where two joysticks are used, they work VERY well. Halo's the best example, but there are a few others. Mouselooking is better than a keyboard or most Atari-style PC joysticks, but for most games it's just not as intuitive as a joystick.
As for the lure of console games: When I play a PC game, I have to wonder "am I playing the game that I paid money for, or a buggy example thereof"?
By and by, you are missing one other very important thing about modern controllers. The games were designed to use them. From Rogue Squadron to Halo, the current console generation set a new standard on how to design games to use everything you know the player's going to see and feel.
Yes, how dare they actually manufacture the disks for a game everyones been waiting for. What are they thinking?
More correctly, older GCs have digital outputs for component video (YPrPb), which does not mean it's capable of HD resolutions (I have an older GC, with the component cable). Component video just means that a) you get better color and sharpness due to signal separation, and b) you can do progressive scan video. That HD signals are often sent over component video does not mean that component video implies HD compatibility. For example, my TV has three component inputs, but only one supports HD (it's also shared with a RGBHV input, but nothing uses RGBHV these days). The other two top out at 480p, which is not HD, contrary to what Nintendo, Sony, or Fox (whose "HDTV" broadcasts are really just "EDTV", or "Enhanced Definition", meaning they're broadcast at 480p 16:9) will tell you.
On the audio front, only XBox natively supports Dolby Digital 5.1, though PS2 could theoretically support it since it has a TOSLink optical output port (IIRC, some games have dedicated one of the PS2's vector units to DD5.1 encoding, but that takes away power that could be used for graphics or gameplay). The GC is stuck with ancient DPL2 via analog stereo outputs.
Well- I like the fact that it is up here.
Because any time you see ANYTHING about Halo, it ends up in a 'This was a Mac game first' (Have you SEEN the original game, before it was ported to the Xbox? What a steaming pile THAT was...)
After the Mac people get involved, you've got the PC people, who will tell you how crappy the game is on the Xbox. It's better on a PC. Of course, it really isn't that good anyway, but the Xbox controller sucks compared to a keyboard and mouse. You should only play FPS on a PC.
Late in the game, the RPG fans will step in- they'll just tell you how crappy FPSs are. And how the levels are sooo repetitive. It's a brainless game, without any real depth.
Even with the detractors, the game still chugs on. This will be a huge seller. But I will NOT say that anyone will be proven wrong. The detractors will still have their opinions, and that won't change.
But when you give something this much attention, we start to wonder why you hate it so much...
No reason to lie.
then why is it on /.?
So we can all argue about why it's being released on XBox, but not PC, extoll how much better it will be than D3, complain about the code not being OSS, point out miniscule contradictions in the screenshots, post mirrors, make jokes, argue about why it's being released on XBox, but not PC, extoll how much better it will be than D3, complain about the code not being OSS, point out miniscule contradictions in the screenshots, post mirrors, make jokes, argue about why it's being released on XBox, but not PC, extoll how much better it will be than D3, complain about the code not being OSS, point out miniscule contradictions in the screenshots, post mirrors, make jokes, bitch about dups, get off into some tangent about video cards, and make jokes.
where'd it go?
Several other people have mentioned price, exclusive titles, etc. But I still think the main lure of consoles is the 'couch' factor. I've had great times with friends playing console games, competing with each other in GT:3 or playing co-operative games. A party I was at recently featured a hacked XBox with a bunch of emulators (and ROMs), plus four or five XBox games on the hard drive. We had fun all night passing the controllers around, trying to beat someone's score in this or that, or pass this level, etc.
Can you do great multiplayer games on the PC? Sure. But the couch factor is missing. A console can be part of a fun evening with friends consuming junk food, telling jokes, and generally lounging on the couch having a good time. PCs don't have that.
A purist PC gamer has access to a much more vast set of games, many of which are free or extremely cheap along with a whole set of emulated consoles. I think it's safe to say PC gaming is vastly cheaper from the practical standpoint. (Not to mention their incredibly high number of additional uses.)
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
I've spent a long time trying to figure out why I dislike this argument. It never sat well with me. It took me months - but one day I went to a friend's house to play some RPGs and I realized why.
"Give us better weapons!"
"No."
"But the game won't be fun unless you do!"
You know, power isn't everything. Sometimes part of the fun is not being godlike. In PC FPS games, you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to snipe people, instantly, with a machine gun, from two hundred yards away. And you know, I don't care. It's not interesting.
In Halo, it's a lot tougher. "Fire for effect" becomes a reality. Sometimes you're not really trying to hit anything, because you can't, you're too far away - you're just trying to keep their heads down.
To me, a game isn't necessarily fun just because I can kill things more easily. It's fun because of the challenge. It's fun because of the story, or the coolness. I'm told they jacked up the difficulty when they moved Halo to the PC - is it more fun now? I mean, sure, you're more powerful. No argument. So are they. So why is it now "more fun"?
I'd agree that there's a level of frustration when you just can't make the controls do what you want. But I didn't encounter that in Halo. You can snipe easily, if you have a sniper weapon. You can aim if you put a little time and work into it. It's far above the frustration point - so what's the issue?
Compare Starcraft and Total Annihilation. In almost every way, Total Annihilation's interface was far superior. You could select an unlimited number of units. You could queue up any commands, up to and including construction commands (yes, that's right - thirty seconds of clicking and you've got fifteen minutes of construction set up.) Does this mean TA is a better game?
No, of course not.
A game is a good game if people enjoy it. That is necessary and sufficient. Deer Hunter is a good game - for its target audience, it fills the exact need. Halo is a good game.
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
PC games aren't free or cheap, at least the ones that are worth playing. the only free game i play on my computer is America's Army. otherwise, they all cost 50 bucks or so like xbox games.
i own a gaming PC and an xbox. i play lots of PC games, mostly FPS's. I also play Halo, and i'll be getting Halo 2 on November 9. I like both of them.
Yet there is a wider availability of games for PCs than consoles. Especially when you factor in console emulation, which is largely a perfected art for dated consoles. PCs retain backward compatibility whereas consoles don't. Volume is greater there.
Volume of new games? Now you've got an argument. But we're dealing with a lock-in concept. You HAVE to buy a Gamecube to play SSBM. Period. The user doesn't have a choice. If Nintendo game the user a choice, their sales figures would be vastly different.
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
Sticking out your middle finger is also an unnatural hand posture, unless you're from New York.
(From NY and loves the Xbox controller)
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Even though most replies didn't get the joke, some of the moderators are hip to the meme.
:)
Nice re-work.
It's easy for me.
On the PC I played a lot of FPS, and a few RTS. I didn't like anything else. I'd sit there with headphones on, staring at the screen, and not talking to anyone.
On a console I play a lot of other types of games- platformers, 3rd person shooters (different beast than an FPS) sports, driving, flying, etc.
Try playing Burnout 3 on a PC. First of all- it doesn't exist. Secondly, driving games such big time on a PC, unless you buy a wheel. I had a racing wheel, and I still didn't really like it.
My Xbox controller has some really nice force-feedback. That can add so much to a game that you don't get with a keyboard and mouse.
4 people can all play together on one console. That's far, far, far more fun than playing online on a PC. I can ALSO play online- and when I do, I can voice chat with everyone else in the game. Oh...and they can't cheat.
I bought Sims 2 for my daughter about a week ago. Of COURSE I had to upgrade her computer to make it run well. So that $40 game ended up costing me about $150- and a trip to the computer store.
No reason to lie.
The 19-inch monitor on my computer doesn't compare at all.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
blah I can't stand FPSs on a console. A mouse is so much better I think for aiming than using a little stick. UT, Quake, awwwwww hell yeah BFG baby w00t
However, you can do almost the same thing with a right-side joystick.
Almost isn't good enough.
The over 4 million people who purchased Halo aren't stupid.
Did he say they were? No. Next.
The N64 controller was pure shat.
So is your spelling. And your argument backing up that statement.
Console vs Computer is a cost battle more than anything.
It's only more economical when you only like a very small selection of games on only one console. The fact of the matter is all consoles produce good games. Purchasing them all makes PCs look a lot fucking cheaper.
Nice troll.
I love halo don't get me wrong but what really irritaes me is the fact that this game was suppose to come out for the PC first, that's until M$ got in on the action. I might be crying over spilt milk but I truly believe that Halo could have been so much more!
Okay- if you can't aim, pick up a Needler. Problem solved.
No reason to lie.
That's why there are trigger buttons.
Controllers, I love the Xbox and GC controllers (PS2 can suck it)
The original Xbox controller was a work of God-like genius in my eyes; I have large hands, and this means the GC/PS2 controllers are equally uncomfortable for extended use. The new 'Type S' controllers for the Xbox are still more comfortable for me to use than other console controllers but, for my shovel-like paws, the bigger Xbox pad is great. I wish MS would make them for the PC so I could use them without having to buy an unsupported third-party convertor.
and ready to ship?
Which console only has 200 games?
According to this: http://msxbox-world.com/xbox/games/index/ the Xbox has 750. (I thought it was more like 500, but who knows)
Playstation 2 has at LEAST that number- probably about double.
The Gamecube has at least 300 games.
Your comment stating that PC gaming was vastly cheaper than console gaming is highly debatable.
I probably have spent the same amount of money on console gaming in the last 2 years, as I did on PC gaming in the previous 2 years.
The only difference is that my console gaming dollars have gone towards GAMES. 50 or 60 in the past two years.
While my PC gaming dollars were going towards new graphics cards, more memory, new motherboard, etc. etc. I probably only purchased 15 games in 2 years.
The fun part for me is playing the games- not getting my system rigged up so it won't crash while playing games.
No reason to lie.
No kidding, I said that the xbox controller gives up accuracy for an easier time learning. Thank you for reading.
-Reid
Technically, that's not force-feedback. That's controller vibration, or just plain feedback. Force feedback is when a steering wheel fights back against you to center itself when you're making a turn.
I fucking hate this bullshit. First off NTSC is 30fps. Certainly high enough for humans to perceive motion. Second, Anything over 50fps or so is a write off because it really doesn't matter. I mean at 50fps yer talking 20ms delay which is more than enough to perceive fluid motion.
Third, maybe your eyes are sore for other reasons? Like the fact that you're bombing your eyes [presumably you have a CRT tv/monitor] with huge gobs of radiation?
Fourth, asshats like you and audio/video philes give science a bad name. Sure there are limits [like anything below 24fps is non-ideal] but you don't need 450fps to get "top notch quality".
Fifth, you said 76Hz [presumably you meant 75Hz] does your "game" keep up with that rate? Do you get 75fps at all times?
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
... they tend to get better with time.
Even if it's 3 year old underspec'ed piece of shit, talented devs now know the platform so well they structure the game engine around it and manage to squeeze every bit of perfomance out of it (without worrying about compatibility).
With PCs you gotta aim at the average PC specs, cause there is no incentive coding features that only a minority are gonna enjoy now (the only benefit you get from wasting $2000 on a top of the line PC is a slightly higher framerate and higher resolution... how exciting). By the time the current top of the line PC hardware becomes the standard, the target will have moved already.
And once the next gen consoles come out, PC will have "fall behind" once again.
But as every true gamer knows, what really matters is how fun the games are.
I completely agree with you. I still find myself playing co-op missions or against each other in TS or CTF. Its one of those games that just rocks in every aspect and never gets old, whether you're playing by yourself or against people.
I'm sure just about everyone on slashdot knows and agrees with this, but I would highly recommend XBConnect to everyone who owns an XBox and PC (Aquaduct for Mac users). It tricks your Xbox into thinking players around the world are on your LAN so you can play against them in halo system link mode (or a range of other games). Its similar to XBox Live but free.
I smell another PC vs Console, resolution, m/k bullshit thread. After playing PC games for many many years, I now prefer the latest generation console experience. 1)screen resolution. If my TV set is good enough for watching DVDs, I don't see why it's not good enough for playing games. I may be standing 5 inches from the monitor when I play on a PC (focusing on a 32*32 pixel area), but I'm sitting quite far enough (and on a comfy couch at that) from my Sony Trinitron HD ready TV so that I don't see the pixels. The color and texture are very crisp. And at any rate, all the next gen consoles games are probably gonna support 1080i. 2) comfort I'd rather play games in my home theater environment (nice HDTV screen, dolby surround, comfy couch) than at a desk. 3) gamepad vs m/k I've played PC games since they were invented, and at some point ppl played FPS on PC *without* a mouse, just with the keyboard. Ok gamepads don't offer pixel precision aiming (you'd be surprised though how good some console players are), but so what? Ultra-precise aiming is just one skill it takes to be good at *some* FPS (I used to play Quake3 and UT a lot). But other skills like strategy have little to do with the control scheme. And FPS are about shooting and I want to get some sort of feeling that I'm shooting a gun. So, yes, I do love the fact that with a gamepad, I press a freaking trigger to shoot (like the real thing), and I get some kick back when I shoot (like the real thing)... two things I don't get when I slide a mouse on a table top. It's true it takes time to learn a new style of control, and some ppl just can't learn new things. Oh well. Another advantage of gamepad over m/k is that the directional move is controlled by an analog stick, on m/k it's a key which isn't analog - so movement (front/back, straffing) can be controlled way more acurately on a gamepad(very fluid). Also keyboard keys are designed for typing and don't "feel" great and require quite a significant pressure to register a press. It's because of that control limitation that PC FPS games don't do anything interesting with movement, but it's not the case on consoles (e.g. in Splinter cell on XBox you can control the character's speed very intuitively, while on PC, you have to use a clumsy combination of keys and mouse wheel). Also note that on a XBox controller, the ABXY buttons themselves are analog (pressure sensitive). BTW, once you're comfortable with a gamepad, you can also play all sorts of games with it - racing, fighting, flight, stealth (with fine intuitive analog speed control). Go try that with a mouse and keyboard (it's a huge pain to store separately a PC wheel, a PC joystick and a PC gamepad... btw PC gamepad will always suck since PC games aren't design for them). Also, many current FPS games have vehicles in them, and a gamepad is *way* more adapted to control a wide range of vehicles: The right analog stick is just perfect for flying planes (d'oh!). It's also a breeze to control a car with a gamepad, where good direction and speed control is important (using analog triggers for acceleration and breaking). The alternative on a PC would be to switch from m/k to steering wheel and joystick whenever you board vehicles :P
An advantage of k/m is that ... you can type!
But since all XBox live games are designed around voice communication, the unability to type with a gamepad is really a no issue.
So, yes, a gamepad offers less accurate aiming than a mouse, but all its advantages - analog and intuitive control of movement and speed, analog buttons, seamless and intuitive vehicles control, the fact that it feels like a real gun (pressing a trigger to shoot and vibration feedback), the fact that you use a gamepad sitting back without the need for a table - make for a *very* fun gaming experience.
More and more game developpers realize that it's just not enough to "port" a PC game to a console, they now design around the advantages a gamepad offers (Halo and great vehicle control, Splinter Cell and stealth movement, Riddick and fist fighting, UC2 Liandri Conflict and melee combat,...).
Whoops...sorry about that. Yes, it just vibrates.
No reason to lie.
From the first day, I've been given a horrible impression by all modern consoles. PS2, GC, and XBox. My issues is with their controller setups. I absolutely despise the concept of dual joystick and I think the XBox controllers are the worst yet. Many people would surely agree with me that they're oversized and poorly laid out. There are of course third party replacements.
No I don't agree in fact the XBOX controller is the best one i've ever used. Maybe they are oversized wherever you live (Japan?) but over here (Australia) we have big hands. (Not from chasing chickens though -Fable)
Have you metaroderated recently?
Halo..? Halo 1 just didn't impress me.. maybe it was lack of keyboard and mouse controls at the time.. or the fact that I've seen better graphics and game play on PC FPS's like BF1942 or Joint Ops.. I'll get Halo 2, but only because I'm a pathetic lemming like the rest of you! hehe
One of the problems with the XBox is the lack of quality games. Sure the racks are filled with games for XBox but have you really closely inspected them?
Copying an old post I made elsewhere on this topic, here was a list of "hot games" for the beginning of Sept 8, 2004:
-------
Here is what they claim is hot for XBox:
- ESPN NFL 2K5
- Madden NFL 2005
- MLB SlugFest: Loaded
- NCAA Football 2005
- NASCAR 2005
- Rainbow Six 3: Black Arrow
- Sudeki
- Spider-Man 2
Here is what they claim is hot on PS2:
- Dog's Life
- Ghosthunter
- Hot Shots Golf Fore!
- NASCAR 2005
- Phantom Brave
- Street Fighter Anniversary Collection
- Star Ocean: Till The End of Time
- Viewtiful Joe
And for laughs, Gamecube:
- NCAA Football 2005
- Madden NFL 2005
- Pikmin 2
- Puyo Pop Fever
- Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow
- Tales of Symphonia
- WWE Day of Reckoning
-------
Notice something a bit odd about the XBox game selection? Now it could have been the timing of it but unless you are into sports games (many of which where available on other systems too) the XBox seems to have very little to offer. Both PS2 and GC have multiple games "epic" games while XBox has <insert org> <insert sport> <insert year> games.
I would rather spend the money on a good video card than 3 games for the XBox given their "massive" selection.
I know "a guy" who copied Madden 2005 to his hard drive just yesterday using DVD2Xbox and it took like 7 minutes. The file was like 2.8GB or something like that. This same guy in question also has an original version Xbox, with the old Thompson DVD Drive, with the original Executor mod chip, and it runs like a dream.
I prefer sonnets.
English is easier said than done.
For me, yes, there is an advantage. I sit in front of a computer all day at work and by the end of the day my eyes are burning. The last thing I want to do is go home and park myself in front of my computer to play a game (even though I do sometimes). I find that playing games on my PS2 while sitting in my comfy chair about five feet away from my tv is much easier on my eyes and a much better way to relax than sitting in front of my 17" monitor in my not-so-comfy computer chair. But that's just me. YMMV.
I tried to dial REALITY once and I was informed that it had been disconnected.
bought a game, doesn't mean SH**! Look at how many people buy Britney Spears albums.. come on now! Then remember how many STUPID people inhabit this planet. I don't meant to say people who bought Halo 1 are stupid (hell, I bought it!) Just food for thought.
Just give me a keyboard for the X-Box and I would be all set.
I hear ya! I am actually waiting for this. I don't know if it supports Halo2, so I am going to wait around until Halo2 is released.
I also don't know how much lag there will be for the controller mapping. I can't really tell that much from the video.
If you ask me, Doom3 and Halflife2 are a more technically superior game. And with Doom3 having Linux support, why would you want to waste your money? Especially when Halo2 is on the Microshaft XBox...
...it was the most impressive thing out there. It still looks, plays, and sounds great. Add to the mix that it actually had a decent story line and voice acting (unheard of at the time) and there you are.
It didn't break any ground, but it did everything REALLY well.
I get bored with FPS games in about 10 minutes...but after 3 years I still fire up Halo every now and again. It just feels good being in that world...comfy like.
Just wondering: How many of you has posted a hate message about Microsoft on Slashdot, but owns an XBox? As highly acclaimed as Halo is, I stand by my dislike for Microsoft and I would never purchase a Microsoft product and give them more money to deter innovation.
It's gaming for the masses.
Which is way I'll stick to my PC-only based games. Games which are designed for the console in mind first then ported to a PC, always seem somewhat lacking (yes, you can point out many situations where this isn't true, but I'm speaking in general.) There is a general trend to make everything on consoles more like arcade games which usually means less complexity and less control. I guess my point is easier to describe with an example.
The Need for Speed series used to be great. The physics were improving with each succesful version . The engine was constantly improving and it was getting very detailed. Then the one after NFS: Porsche Unleased (NFS: HP2 i think.) the game went to total crap as they designed it for the PS2. The simple details that make the game enjoyable such as headlights, dashboard, customable license plates, sun/night/dusk/dawn driving all dissappeared. The physics were dulled down to make it easier to drive and the game overall was just horrible in comparison to their previous titles. So i'll be sticking my PC games that aren't designed for the masses, but for those who appreciate a good game.
-- How many sigs are as useless as this one?
as if my GPA wasn't in enough danger with Counter-Strike Source released. oh, and also started dating someone.
;)
yes, you read that correctly, i'm a disgrace to all slashdotters
...and then some people step in and tell the mouse and keyboard fans to stfu, because it's so bloody annoying to listen to all the time.
Some people like the controllers better - as long as the game is geared towards it speedwise. So there.
Anyway, people with sick tendencies towards unergonomical controllers can still hook up mouse + keyboards to most recent consoles including Dreamcast, PS2 and Xbox. So there.
I own both the Xbox and PS2, and play both regularly though I own quite a few more games on the PS2 platform.
Platform Specific Titles I enjoy:
Xbox:
-Steel Battalion
-Ninja Gaiden
-Sudeki
PS2:
Disgaea
La Pucelle
Phantom Brave
Culdcept
Star Ocean: TTEoT
Gran Turismo Series
Final Fantasy Series
Monster Hunter
Front Mission 4
Katamari Damacy
Gradius
Dynasty Tactics
I (personally) find that there are many more games on the PS2* that I am interested in that are only for the PS2(including a fair few Japanese Imports)
*Not a fan of any American Sports/Racing franchise games though.
I personally find the Xbox controller to not be as comfortable or accurate as the PS2 Controller. Not just the "Hamburger Controller"(tm) but the S-Controller as well.
The tactile feedback of the Xbox controller buttons feel cheap in comparison with the PS2 controllers.
Also the analog sticks and the buttons (in my opinion, of course) are not as well placed on the controller.
Gaming comfort from using either controller for prolonged periods of time (>5 hours) is basically moot, as both controllers leave you with the "Claw Syndrome" I also own a Guncon2 Controller and a PS2 Steering Wheel controller.
Xbox/PS2 Fanboy yadda yadda yadda.
I found Halo immensely more playable, not to mention more visually appealing on the PC than Xbox.
If a game is offered on all 3 platforms, my personal order of purchase preference would be:
1)PC (Better graphics, mouse + keyboard)
2)Xbox (More robust graphics than PS2, Shorter
load times)
3)PS2 (Best {IMO} controls despite aging platform,
most games that would pry money out of my
wallet)
That aside, I honestly don't think its possible to achieve the level of precision of control (Especially in FPS games) of a Mouse and Keyboard with Analog sticks (on any platform)
I'm using a Standard 101 Key KB and a Razer Viper Mouse on and Exactmat at present moment.
This might just be me making things up, but perhaps the fact that the controls are a little sub-optimal is actually good for most people. If it introduces a cap on the amount of skill, then there's a little less reward for playing 8 hours a day. And it's more likely that someone starting new won't be totally dominated once they get the hang of things. Because there are far fewer people that can home in on them and do a headshot every time.
That nonwithstanding, the fact that people can't cheat (Yes, you can hack consoles, but how many people do you see online that are cheating? I've never seen a one.) is a huge draw. No aim bots, no wall hacks, no better video cards giving them better resolution (okay, I guess tv quality affects things a bit.) But it's a fairly level playing field.
I have to put in my 2 cents at this point to mention how playing multiplayer games in a 4-player split-screen sucks ass. Gee, let's all look at each other's view, that'll make it easier to snipe!
You are right, the vibration into the controller when the grunts are shooting plasma and some elite slashing his sword just beats the hell out of any keyboard + mouse thing...no matter what the system configuration is. Sometimes consoles are better to play games.
Hmm.. Lets see.. Fact: Lotta Halo fans ARE lemmings, myself included. Fact: There have been way more impressive FPS's on the PC than on ANY console. Fact: People ARE stupid. What world are you guys living in? Troll me some more, please.. use your mod points so you don't F' up other peoples threads.
I just heard the free track from the new soundtrack for Halo 2 and it sounds pretty cool. Download here.
There's one major advantage of the controller over the mouse- Everyone is on a level playing field. There's no one stuck with their ancient two-button PS/2 mouse who can never get above a certain skill level. There's no one like you with a $300 "gaming mouse" and key sequences bound to six buttons. Everyone's using exactly the same (or extremely similar) input devices, so it's all about individual skill instead of who can build a better gaming rig.
(And this point applies even more so to connection, CPU, and graphics card.)
a game that good looking and being a sequel to a great game doesn't surprise me... I am one of those guys buying it before its out.
The 'no upgrade costs' is not true for consoles though: aftermarket controlers, broadband adapters, memory cards etc etc...I bought my mouse, case and keyboard years ago, and incremental upgrade the internals of my pc.
/when/ you pay the price ('cos the xbox/ps2 sure didn't cost $150 at launch).
To put it bluntly, I'd say that the cost for decent gameplay is the same for consoles and the pc...the only real diffence (appart from how you spend the money) is
Now, I do have to say that consoles are getting the mayority of cool, polished, original games. However, the pc does have the mod community..which much to my disapointment only very, very rarely comes up with some real innovation. But it does give you more bang for the buck (as in more of the same for free).
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
halo 2 goes gold where's the pc port, dudes?! x- box sux, l o l!
One god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
Oh my god, I can't believe I forgot the line breaks.
Should have read:
halo 2 goes gold
where's the pc port, dudes?! x-
box sux, l o l!!
's more a question of volume of new, original games. Sure, the pc started it, but nowadays, most innovative gameplay is to be found on consoles. Pikmin, that rolling-ball thingy game...hell, even Shenmue probably counts.
:))...otherwise I'd get one for the games.
And I don't even have a console...it's just too expensive and consoles don't have 3d modeling suites (or run Maple, for that matter
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
"far more natural"
Sorry, where were the triggers on your mouse again?
I have an xbox (modded, 40+ games on a 250GB drive ready to go instantly). Hook it up to a projector and we have 4-player action straight away for Halo, Unreal, FIFA, NBA, NHL, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I like FPS' with a mouse/kb combo, but console FPS games are adapted to require less accuracy and they're still very effective.
I've never had an Xbox game complain about my computer being out of memory, not having the required video card, or run so slowly that it was unplayable. As others have said, it just works, it's more social and it just fits different needs than PC games.
Back on topic -- I downloaded the new Halo 2 trailer and would recommend that others don't bother -- no gameplay shown, loads of fluff. Waste of time. I do like Halo though, so I'll just wait for the game.
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
"You can snipe easily, if you have a sniper weapon. You can aim if you put a little time and work into it."
*cough* bullshit *cough*
>> I absolutely despise the concept of dual joystick and I think the XBox controllers are the worst yet. Many people would surely agree with me that they're oversized and poorly laid out. There are of course third party replacements.
What is the problem for so many people over the X-box "Duke" controller? Personally, I prefer them over the "S", Gamecube, and PS2 controller anyday.
Is it the size? To me, it feels...solid. Like it's custom fit for my hand.
I fail to see what the problem is with it is. Can anyone please explain?
*Then agian, my hands are big, and Prefer Black and White over the ABXY than below them and doing yoga with my hands on the "S"*
*cough* lousy player *cough*
Seriously, since when did "sniping" mean "stopping in the middle of battle and firing off a shot in half a second"? You can snipe someone in five or six seconds, if they're not moving all that fast - three seconds or so if they're not moving at all. Even that is horribly unrealistic compared to reality, but, hey.
If they're dodging, of course, you have basically no chance of sniping them unless you get really lucky. Which is how it should be.
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
It said Windows 98 or better so I installed linux :-) Spew the source or the server gets it!
Author is either a lazy ass troll (pc vs console, puhlease), or just incredibly stupid and deserves a slap.
Excuse me? Not to be offensive, but you don't play with very competent people.
I went to a xbox party where even the noobs were sniping with the pistol when targets were so far away they were just pixels.
Halo is just as susceptible to bad physics as any other game. You want realism? Try Doom 3!
Just kidding. Games aren't realistic, and Halo less than most.
Austin is more fun than Dallas.
Looking up, I wonder how retarded people must be for so many people to fall for such an obvious joke. I mean, it wasn't even a serious attempt at trolling, just a joke.
Oddly, the pistol is the best weapon for sniping at medium range, because it auto-tracks. :) On the other hand, I've found it's not good at *truly* long range, and it's hard to get headshots with it. For that, you need the sniper rifle.
:)
Also, keep in mind that "so far away they were just pixels" isn't all that far away at 640x480.
I'm not particularly going for realism, I suppose - just balance. When any gun can snipe, that just sucks. Oddly, the pistol in Halo is an extremely powerful and accurate single-shot gun - it's sort of a close-to-medium-range sniper rifle (and probably my favorite weapon). I'm not sure why they chose a pistol for that, but they did.
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
You are now king.
Good work!
Not Meta-modding due to apathy.
Using your right thumb to freelook on an analog stick makes for an unnatural hand posture.
Yeah, but is way, way more natural than to have one hand on the keyboard and the other moving the mouse around (I try to avoid the use of the mouse. WindowMaker and Mozilla do wonders for this.)
No keyboard/mouse configuration can beat sitting on your compfy couch, with a controller in your hands. And, on some games, it is an advantage to have 2 analog controllers, instead of 1 mouse (you can control easilly how fast you run, with various degrees of precision. Try to do that with asdf).
Pc gaming cannot win this discussion. The joypad was made to play; the keyboard to work. Yes, it is more configurable, and gives you more keys to control.
But will never be more comfortable.
I have to put in my 2 cents at this point to mention how playing multiplayer games in a 4-player split-screen sucks ass. Gee, let's all look at each other's view, that'll make it easier to snipe!
Well of course there's always that, and I agree when you're playing with opponents on your shared screen. In addition to have 1/4 of a presumably already small screen, your opponent is watching you run out in the open. Sucksabunch.
However! There is a good side to this coin!
Halo being our example of choice, playing either 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 sharing a common screen can make team play amazingly more entertaining. Assuming capture the flag on Blood Gulch, being able to coordinate where your team mates are for a better organized capture and return is seriously aided by being able to see exactly where your team mate is.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
According to the Bungie developers, the pistol is waaaay too powerful. It is gone from Halo2.
Just got it off bungie's site.
********* sig: If you don't like the law, get filthy stinking rich, and buy a better one.
Everything has it's time and place.
And for FPSes, now is thier time and place.
I certainly wouldn't play a fighting game with a keyboard and mouse. Fuck that. I'll use a gamepad or an arcade stick.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
The needler is the most worthless piece of shit gun in the game. It's like shooting little mosquitos to slightly wound your enemy.
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
I believe Halo deserves the recognition because it's the first console FPS to achieve such wide-spread acceptance of long time PC gamers and FPS-on-console skeptics like me. I never thought a console FPS could live up to a PC FPS, but after playing Halo, I was proven wrong. It just feels right and the pace of the game works with the fact that you have to control your character with a gamepad, which also results in developers and gamers concentrating on other factors of the game, in particular, the physics engine, and strategy.
Console games have always been fun, ever since Atari in my case, but I think Halo is revolutionary to the console platform as much as Mario Bros. was when it came out, and perhaps even more so. A revolutionary game will always make headlines, but no matter how good it is, some people just won't agree, and that's ok too.
Personally, Halo 2 gone gold is just as important as Half-life 2 gone gold.
If console game makers unified behind PCs, we wouldn't be having this discussion and the ease of use of consoles would trickle into PCs.
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
Unless I buy a controller compatible for your console with more features. Third party controllers DO exist and some are better.
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
Uh...have you ever played a game at below 50 FPS? It gets a bit choppy at times in fast motion. The fact of the matter is, NTSC is by no means fluid enough. It only looks that way because of clever camera manipulation and blurring to disguise the stutters. The eye does not have a specific frame rate, but the eye can distinguish easily over 100 FPS in black and white, and at least 70 FPS in color if enough attention is paid. The actual point at which flicker disappears is around 16-20 FPS, but the eye can notice something is choppy way beyond that in high-action scenes.
This is why people still need video cards that can do 60-70 FPS with all the eye candy pumped up to the max, because anything lower than that will annoy you to no end.
And accurate... Mod Up Please!
[UID-HeinzIntel]
There's times when a site should be a reflection of its readers...and hey, let's face it- alot of folks who come to this site are *very* excited about this game.
Methinks some of the kidz pooping on all the excitement over Halo 2 were probably excited about a game themselves at one point. Maybe it was seeing GLquake on a voodoo SLI, or half-life in hardware mode for the first time, but now, for some reason, they can't see what all the hype is about when it comes to Halo. Ultimatley, Halo is quake and/or doom for a generation of people- their first multiplayer FPS.
Sometimes thinking (or overthinking) is no subsitiute for being truly excited and enthusiastic.
It's a game, it's supposed to be fun. Getting all hyped up and excited over a video game is fun and kinda..well, nerdy. Do you the word nerd anywhere else on this page?
At least you don't need to aim.
No reason to lie.
He's a vverysmartman@hotmail.com
the first thing i thought when i saw the halo2 armor in this screenshot was CAPTAIN POWER!!
eh? eh?
"I DARE you to make less sense!"
Actually, dumbass, the NFS series originsted on consoles. The first game was for the 3DO, then ported to the PC, Saturn and PS1
Check out my foes list to see who is so retarded that they can't use the signature line!!!
Well, I guess it takes an asshat to know one, as it iscommon knowledge that the refresh rate for NTSC video is 60 Hz, not 30. Of course, if you did research on the topic you would have less time to post your highly enlightened comments for our edification. So, in the future, please do the research!
Check out my foes list to see who is so retarded that they can't use the signature line!!!
Are you on crack, or was your mom before she dropped you on your head?
Check out my foes list to see who is so retarded that they can't use the signature line!!!
To me, a game isn't necessarily fun just because I can kill things more easily. It's fun because of the challenge. It's fun because of the story, or the coolness.
Have you even heard of Grand Theft Auto?
I have to agree with you, I thought Halo was very mediocre. I assume if all you had was an XBox then this was worth getting worked up over, but as I own all consoles (yes incl. XBox) and a PC I couldn't see what the fuss was about. There are good games on all the consoles but the PC games are always way ahead of anything happening on the consoles.
If Halo 2 is gonna run much faster that Halo 1 it must have seriously sad framerate. Video stutter anyone. lol - The Xbox can't do much more than Halo 1, it's pushing the envelope, the vid card is too old now.
Playing Halo 1 in Japanese was bearable, but I'm sure it would be much more Enjoyable if I didn't have to refer to the English Script (that I found on the Halo Story page) everytime someone said something important.
Sure, my Japanese has improved since then, but it certainly isn't enough to get all of the important details.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Newsflash: PC is the only platform on which driving games *don't* suck! All you can get for consoles are arcadey games like Burnout and CMR, the serious sims are all on the PC. (Yes, you can get Richard Burns Rally for PS2 and Xbox, but without a proper controller it will suck -- and PC wheels are still miles ahead)
The same goes for all simulators, not just driving games. Not having to cope with a crappy gamepad frees the devs to actually simulate something instead of just simplifying it to the extent that it's playable with a gamepad, but so far from reality it's just another console game.
Cool, then the X-box will have TWO games.
I should boycott them... USA Release Nov 9. $49 (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/halo2/) UK Release Nov 11. £39 (http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/halo2/default.htm) So not only do us brits have to wait AGAIN (UT2k4 was the same thing as was SO many other games), giving the yanks extra days to practice before we get on Live for a frag, we have to pay EXTRA for the pleasure!. "They shit on our heads, and we're supposed to say 'thanks for the hat'!" - Sopranos Series 1. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Visit London Scalextric Club
"If Common Sense was so common, it wouldn't be such a valued trait." - Me, 2002
Honestly, who quotes themselves?
It's nice to compare Halo to BF1942 or Joint Ops but you're forgetting something:
Halo was released to the Xbox in 2001 while BF 1942 came out 2002 and Joint Operations only in 2004!
The fact that the PC version took ages to appear doesn't change anything about Halo being already two years old when it arrived there! (The PC port was pretty much a 1:1 conversion with some small changes done on the multiplayer side)
...Season three of Red VS Blue has ofiicial started! http://www.redvsblue.com/
When playing with my console (GCN, btw), I'm sitting or lying on the sofa. Sometimes on the floor.
I don't know where I could put a keyboard or mouse.
I don't need a signature.
NTSC is 59.97 fps but interlaced. The entire screen only updates at 29.97fps.
But thanks for playing.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
He likes us. And He wants us to be happy.
Yes, my only tool is a hammer. And you're starting to look like a nail.
Fool.
(And this point applies even more so to connection, CPU, and graphics card.)
You mean that Microsoft provides complementary Internet access with X-Box Live to ensure fairness amoung different player's connection speeds?
"Fire for effect" becomes a reality.
Don't use military terms you don't understand. "Fire for effect" means you EXPECT to hit the target (that would be the "effect"). It's not the same as "suppressing fire"
Pc gaming cannot win this discussion. The joypad was made to play; the keyboard to work.
Adding a joypad to a PC is faster than giving a keyboard to a console. (Try to do that on your couch!)
"but give me a mouse and keyboard vs. your controller setup, and I'll clean your clock."
I'll er pass. But thanks for the offer.
Oh, "clock", sorry.
I bought Sims 2 for my daughter about a week ago. Of COURSE I had to upgrade her computer to make it run well. So that $40 game ended up costing me about $150- and a trip to the computer store.
So, you both had fun. What's the problem?
Yes. What does that have to do with this conversation?
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
Name one upgrade you need to play Halo 2 on an Xbox after the initial cost of buying said Xbox. Sure you can count Xbox Live if you want, but that's it. Or maybe buying different cables or controllers, but none of those are required to play the game. 149.99 plus cost of game, and you're done. No memory cards needed.
And the post I was replying to was using the undivded 50Fps that PAL video runs in. I see literacy is not a large concern for you. Thank you for playing, now piss off.
Check out my foes list to see who is so retarded that they can't use the signature line!!!
The lure of consol games is that they don't all exist on the pc. I've always had a pc and consol to play games on. I've always tended to play more games on the pc though.
I really enjoy good 3rd person action games. There aren't very many of them on the pc, and driving the character with mouse look doesnt feel as right as driving them with a good analog joystick.
I know you have trouble with the analog stick on the consols. It might be that you need to spend time with them to get familiar. When quake came out, I struggled with controling it. I had played wolfstien with a joystick, then with doom, doom 2, I got really familiar with the keyboard and holding down the alt key to straf.
When duke 3d came out, I did pretty good using some other keys to look up and down and could still play pretty decently. But then when I got quake, forget it, I sucked, the game was pretty impossible to play with just the keyboard. It took me a lot of time to figure out how to use asdw and the mouse to move around. It was awkward, I hated it, and thought it was just plain dumb.
Years later, the asdw and mouse layout is the prefered layout for me for as many games as I can apply it to. So spending time with a game you like enough to get over hating the joystick, and you might come to love it.
It wasn't made for fps games, which is true, but after a lot of halo, I can manage them pretty well. But I have my consol for 3rd person action games, sports games, and consol rpg games.
It's in the game, find a game you like that is only for your consol, and you'll learn the controller in no time.
You know, power isn't everything. Sometimes part of the fun is not being godlike. In PC FPS games, you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to snipe people, instantly, with a machine gun, from two hundred yards away. And you know, I don't care. It's not interesting.
In Halo, it's a lot tougher. "Fire for effect" becomes a reality. Sometimes you're not really trying to hit anything, because you can't, you're too far away - you're just trying to keep their heads down.
Apparently you've never played Halo with the guys that lived on my dorm floor. They've got that game so down pat, just like half the Halo players in this world. It's been out for so long that a lot of people have mastered this game beyond belief. More so than in any other game in my opinion.
Please. Fighting games like the DOA or Virtua Fighter series, racing games like the Burnout series or Rallisport Challenge, etc. in no way feature framerate chop of any kind. The 60 refresh rate is plenty for a game with a consisten framerate (which is the real problem, and also affects plenty of PC games too).
And you haven't had to play console games with NTSC since the Dreamcast was released back in 1999 (which supported standard VGA monitors just fine).
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
but, Japanese and American XBox games are not cross compatible (Region 2 and Region 1 respectively). If they were, there would be less of a market for those mod-chips.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Um the one I replied to stated NTSC is 60Hz. It's not. First off it's [closer to] 59.97Hz, second that's interlaced. NTSC != PAL
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
I'm sorry, but my previous post was made in sarcasm. While GTA does have a great story line (porn, drugs, gangs, etc.) and great gameplay, the feature that attracts most people to it is the ease with which you are able to wipe out the entire population of a small city using only an Uzi and a Pinto.
This shows how games are being utilized: some people play to increase their skill and are genuinely competitive, while others use games mainly to relax, however morbid their relaxation technique is.
Again, sorry for the confusion, in the future I'll post the mandatory tags.
I see your point - but I think if you looked a little more deeply, you might see it differently. :)
There are plenty of games that allow for many things to be destroyed. Hell, you can boot up Simcity and just unleash monster after monster if you want. GTA3 is unique is that it allows for things to be destroyed semi-realistically, in a very cool fashion, by someone who's extremely badass and who you control.
I think if you got rid of the pyrotechnics and sheer coolness of it, people wouldn't play it. Mindless slaughter alone - despite the first impression - just isn't enough anymore.
(Actually, I don't even have to think about this - there's proof. Compare GTA3 sales to Postal 2 sales. End of story.)
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
You make an excellent point. Destroying things realistically is key to a good game. I have nothing else to add, for your words ring true in the ear of one who kills mercilessly the people of Vice City. :)
Who are you calling a lousy player? If you think that's the case with sniping ... I think it's you who is the lousy player. You should practice mobile sniping with a friend of yours, and also 2x sniping from long range and then no zoom sniping. One of my teammates and I spent an entire night playing games where we could only use the sniper rifle and weren't allowed to zoom in. To increase the difficulty, we made it so that if you hit the other guy but didn't get a head shot (thus he doesn't die), then the confrontation ends and both players go get a health pack and continue. That makes sure you play at head level ... and you get damn good.
My point here is that it does not take 5 seconds to kill someone with the sniper rifle. It takes a fraction of a second. And you don't have to zoom in. You only have to know where they are. It just takes practice.
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
Eh. It's actually quite powerful if you empty an entire clip in one go. If about six (?) or more needles hit an enemy, it will explode. Less than six, => mosquito bites, as you put it.