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Everquest 2 Launches

Though it's being drowned out by the Halo 2 news, Everquest 2 officially launches today. RPG Vault has a review available for perusal, GamerFeed has a hands on look, and if you're looking for crunchy, low fat coverage Gamespy has an interview with Heather Graham about her role in the game. If you're already tripping the light fantastic in Qeynos check out GamerGod's Qeynos Quest feature, or just cut out the middle man and look forward to the first content on Allakhazam. Finally, F13 provides usefully cynical commentary about the beta and launch of the game.

305 comments

  1. Slashdot usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Suddenly drops 72%.

    1. Re:Slashdot usage by bsharitt · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just wait until WoW launches, an you can expect it to drop another 36%.

    2. Re:Slashdot usage by Norgus · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nice counting there.

    3. Re:Slashdot usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hey now, if there were 100 slashdot users, and usage drops 72% because of EQ2, then there are 28 users left over. Then WOW comes out, and it drops another 36%, that's just over 1/3 of those 28 users, so now it's down to 18 users.

      See, it all makes sense. Unless he meant 36% of the original 100, which would be loony.

    4. Re:Slashdot usage by Judg3 · · Score: 1

      I know I can't be the only one who scheduled his vacation around WoW.

      --
      Looking for hardware (Currently need: Large Etch-a-Sketch) Have one? See my journal!
    5. Re:Slashdot usage by Gentlewhisper · · Score: 0

      No way man.. when WoW comes out, there will be nobody left on /.

    6. Re:Slashdot usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, VideoGame retailer employees aren't allowed to take vacation from Nov - Jan 25th.

    7. Re:Slashdot usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you're not the only one. I'm still not sure I'm going to buy it though. I'm kind of pissed at having to pay $50 for a CD that's useless without the monthly fee. I have no problem with the monthly fee.

    8. Re:Slashdot usage by Stochio · · Score: 3, Funny

      ...yet for some reason the birthrate isn't affected.

    9. Re:Slashdot usage by emrysk · · Score: 1

      And you know the other 2% are people still holding out hope for an Ultima Online sequel.

    10. Re:Slashdot usage by bconway · · Score: 1

      One pays for software development. The other pays for the monthly service. Would you rather them hike the price and continue to pay every month for software development that has long since been paid off?

      --
      Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
    11. Re:Slashdot usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its all about World of warcraft

    12. Re:Slashdot usage by bsharitt · · Score: 1

      No, I meant what I said and said what I meant, don't try to confuse every one.

    13. Re:Slashdot usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There will still be people bitching about losing the election AGAIN, and whining about right wing government conspiracy theories.

    14. Re:Slashdot usage by DarkSarin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, I would rather they drop the price to $25, and the subscription to a measly $5/month. I can hack $5. I can usually convince my wife that $5/mo is an acceptable amount.

      That said, I won't be purchasing everquest 2, just like I didn't purchase everquest 1. When I am finally out of grad school, have disposable income, and am NOT worried about spending too little time with my kids and wife, THEN I will consider games that require a monthly fee. At that point, my kids will want to play them too, and I'll have to monitor the content of the games as well (I self-monitor as well--I figure if they shouldn't play it, then I shouldn't either (this has limits, but to a certain point, it is a good philosophy, especially as kids move into teen years)).

      To those who decry parental censorship--buzz off. It is within my rights, and necessary to a large extent. Good parenting would solve a lot of problems in this world!

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    15. Re:Slashdot usage by Jane_the_Great · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      Why did you choose to have kids when you're still in grad school? You don't currently have the financial means to support them. Your big mistake.

      People should use condoms. Your kids are going to grow up and steal my car.

      --
      THIS ACCOUNT IS OFFICIALLY RETIRED/RETARDED.
    16. Re:Slashdot usage by Naffer · · Score: 1

      I completely agree. The grandparent should stuff his children back into the womb from whence they came!

    17. Re:Slashdot usage by MobileDude · · Score: 1

      As much as I hate to bash a fellow lib-hater, did it ever occur to you that he/she might be going to grad school later in life and not direct from undergrad?

      Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Anyone? /i doubt your car is worth stealing - I know mine isn't. Then again, I drive an F250 crew...

      --
      10 MD .\crash 20 CD .\crash 30 GOTO 10
    18. Re:Slashdot usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other 2%? You mean, the people left over after the first 108% are gone?

    19. Re:Slashdot usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is totally offtopic. we don't care about your groundbreaking parenting choices.

      -secret phallus

    20. Re:Slashdot usage by SnapShot · · Score: 1

      No the other 2%, with 3 digit id's, are sitting around drooling on themselves, eating Geritol, and complaining that "Back in my day we played NetHack on randomly generated ASCII dungeons, and doggonit, we liked it".

      --
      Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
    21. Re:Slashdot usage by sam@caveman.org · · Score: 1

      and those of us with 5-digit IDs are complaining that "back in my day we played MUDs, and doggonit, we liked it".
      --

      --
      burn the computers. go back to the abacus.
    22. Re:Slashdot usage by DarkSarin · · Score: 1

      I'll agree with someone else that replied to you--have you considered that my current situation is not what you think?

      I did indeed start graduate school later in life than many (I am one of the older students here, but not the oldest). I have 2 kids, both boys, and I am making ends meet (via loans, assistantships, part-time work, and the occasional contract work). It means that I am very busy, but that's okay.

      Why did I choose to have kids while still in school? My first son was born right before I finished undergrad--and it was a wonderful thing. I did great that semester, BTW. To me family is more important than anything else, and I think that it is important to have children while one is still young enough to enjoy playing with them. I know far too many people who delay children until they are older, and then DIE before their children are grown (actually, my father passed away when I was 18, but I only mention that as full disclosure, not a 'pity me' party).

      My wife and I are agreed that children are important enough to us that we are willing to work some extra (she is a Kitchen Consultant for a large and well known seller of cook-ware) in order to make ends meet due to the extra cost of having two children. We will not be having a third until I graduate in a year or two (or three), but that's our decision.

      If my kids grow up and steal your car, then we can talk, but somehow I doubt that that will happen. As a point of fact, I plan on doing everything that I can to make my kids socially and morally responsible.

      As for using condoms--no thanks. Birth control is fine, and we do use it, but condoms are no fun. I'll leave to others to expound on why that is so--personally I'll leave it alone.

      Final point--re: your sig.

      I am a social and financial conservative, with strong libertarian streaks. I am also extremely practical--I am willing to use a system until a better one is found, even if I am working to change that system.

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    23. Re:Slashdot usage by Jane_the_Great · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You had a child while you were an undergrad - even worse than my original criticism. You are irresponsible and your children are garbage.

      --
      THIS ACCOUNT IS OFFICIALLY RETIRED/RETARDED.
    24. Re:Slashdot usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are obviously uninterested in facts, and individual circumstances. Therefore I consider this discussion closed for lack of intelligent participation on your part. Good day.

    25. Re:Slashdot usage by jandrese · · Score: 0, Redundant

      And we didn't have one of those fancy keyboard things neither! We had to toggle in our moves on the front panel switches! You Whippersnappers don't know what fun is! *grumble*grumble*

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    26. Re:Slashdot usage by mink · · Score: 1

      Humm, then I have a problem as I have a 6 digit ID and never played a MUD, but have played lots of nethack (never ascended).

      --
      Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
  2. From Allakazam: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Coming Soon! Our EQ2 site should be up before the game launches.

    In the meantime, feel free to chat on our EQ2 Forum.


    Too late.

    1. Re:From Allakazam: by jfruhlinger · · Score: 1

      Hilariously, there's just a Weight Watchers banner ad up there right now.

      jf

    2. Re:From Allakazam: by Allakhazam · · Score: 2, Informative

      We pushed it to the last minute, but we're up now. http://eq2.allakhazam.com

  3. as one of the beta testers... by rogabean · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Let me warn most of you who were not in the Beta that this game is far from ready. They rushed it to market to beat out WoW.

    I've been telling most people to wait till the beginning of next year to play it after a few patches...

    This live launch will basically be like a "paid beta". Expect to see alot of server downtime for a few months as they fix the things they didn't get to in time to beat WoW.

    On the other hand I just shutdown my EQ1 account after the announcement that despite Beta tester's please they decided to rush it out the door. And decided to not follow through with my preorder of EQ2.

    4 years... time to go see what the outside world looks like I guess.

    --
    "why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
    1. Re:as one of the beta testers... by Duncan3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Paid beta is a PERMANENT condition in MMORPGs.

      You should nkow that by now ;)

      --
      - Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
    2. Re:as one of the beta testers... by foxfyre · · Score: 0

      None of these was "ready." Remember EQ when it launched?

      --
      -- Not a /. dude.
    3. Re:as one of the beta testers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Let me warn most of you who were not in the Beta that this game is far from ready"

      And this is different from every other SOE game how?

    4. Re:as one of the beta testers... by rogabean · · Score: 2, Informative

      oh its not different... I just expected more from em after all this time... They actually did a good job with the Omens of war (eq1) release, I was hoping it was a sign. Instead they went for the "must_beat_blizzard_omg_wtf_bbq" direction. eq1 has been a 4 year paid beta for me. but it was at least playable.

      --
      "why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
    5. Re:as one of the beta testers... by frankthechicken · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Beta has to be a permanent condition, it is hugely organic process in adaptation of the code to match the players.

      The first release will, and can only be, a best guess to how the game will react under such continuous, and unpredictable user behaviour.

    6. Re:as one of the beta testers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      This has been the history of everquest. From EQ1 all of the expansions were released with lots of bugs, and broken quests, that causes you to lose days upon days of sleep trying to figure it out after which they will finally patch somthing that wasn't working.

      For instance, my guild was in Plain of Earth during the very early days of the Plains of Power expansion. Almost everything was broken, that we finally gave up and put the game aside.

      After that we all became supermodel rockstars and fucked only the hottest chicks in town.

    7. Re:as one of the beta testers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paid beta is a PERMANENT condition in MMORPGs.

      Especially ones by Sony.

    8. Re:as one of the beta testers... by _KiTA_ · · Score: 1

      >>On the other hand I just shutdown my EQ1 account after the announcement that despite Beta tester's please they decided to rush it out the door. And decided to not follow through with my preorder of EQ2.

      You mean the people playing it for free got upset that they were suddenly going to charge them for it? Gosh Gee Wilickers Batman, what a complete shock. ;)

      I will admit it's a bit early, but, lets be honest -- most people complaining just don't want to have to start over and start paying.

    9. Re:as one of the beta testers... by Ironica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Beta has to be a permanent condition, it is hugely organic process in adaptation of the code to match the players.

      The first release will, and can only be, a best guess to how the game will react under such continuous, and unpredictable user behaviour.


      Now, I'm the first to say that an MMOG is never finished; if it is, there's something wrong. I basically agree with your statement. BUT...

      After being in the EQ Luclin beta, and playing on Test server for 2 years, and playing the last bit of beta and the first several months of release of SWG, and then playing a bit of the WoW beta, I've come to realize that you really, really, REALLY can do better than SOE at creating a game. Yes, it is possible to realize that people are going to exploit something and fix it in advance sometimes. Better yet, it is actually possible that, even when you *didn't* forsee an exploit, you can fix it RIGHT AWAY, rather than simply penalizing people randomly and capriciously for using it for months before breaking the exploited thing as to make it not useful to anyone.

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    10. Re:as one of the beta testers... by Eris13 · · Score: 0

      Youre paying more for this one.

    11. Re:as one of the beta testers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After being in the EQ Luclin beta, and playing on Test server for 2 years, and playing the last bit of beta and the first several months of release of SWG, and then playing a bit of the WoW beta, I've come to realize that you really, really, REALLY ... ... have no life?

    12. Re:as one of the beta testers... by r00td43m0n · · Score: 1

      Planetside and SWG were "paid betas" for a little more than a year.

    13. Re:as one of the beta testers... by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      "paid beta"

      you say it like it's a bad thing

      I know what you mean about the outside world, my friend and I agreed to quit so that we wouldn't be jaded by the time EQ2 came out. I'm glad they have rushed it to market, it is supposed to fill up my long winter evenings. Provided it's reasonably playable and doesn't crash to desktop more than once every four hours I'll be happy. I say four hours because sometimes you need a catalyst to go to bed!

      I want to be an early adopter, think of the loot they'll nerf later :)

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    14. Re:as one of the beta testers... by timts · · Score: 1

      I tried guild wars recently, the alpha test event and beta test event. it's free and I didnot notice much problem, just a little lagging. guild wars looks as good as wow, when eq2 requires a lot GPU/CPU power to run, guild wars can run smoothly with middle range machines.

      I dont know why people want to mmorpg, you paid for the game, then you had to pay monthly fee, worst of all, they upgrade the game so you have to pay for it again instead of just got your game upgrade for free.

    15. Re:as one of the beta testers... by T'hain+Esh+Kelch · · Score: 0

      Paid beta is a PERMANENT condition in MMORPGs. You should nkow that by now ;)

      You tell that to Blizzard!

    16. Re:as one of the beta testers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not "interesting" this is "wrong".
      Beta wasn't 100% perfect at the end but it was very good indeed and a great deal of fun. Please delete the top post here as it's simply wrong.

  4. No reviews yet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Despite the obligatory misleading text in the Slashdot header (patent pending)... The RPG vault article is NOT a review. Heck, they aren't even willing to call it a preview. Its a "first first impression piece" and very low on content.

  5. I can now do it! by mekanizer · · Score: 1

    Now I can really have no life at all!

    1. Re:I can now do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does this thing run on Linux?

    2. Re:I can now do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With SOE I'd question it running on Windows in first place.

  6. Bugs and Nerfing by Grendol · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think I will wait till sony has the bugs and all the nerfing worked out for the 'game balance'. But even then I will likely stay with EQ1 as they are supposed to compete against each other as separate business units of SONY. -Zazerzing Wizard 50 seasons, Bertoxxolus

    1. Re:Bugs and Nerfing by Kenja · · Score: 3, Funny
      "I think I will wait till sony has the bugs and all the nerfing worked out for the 'game balance'."

      Look, if your never going to play just say it. I mean they still having finished EQ1.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  7. Jumped the Gun? by servognome · · Score: 3, Funny

    The Everquest 2 website says there are still 17 hours left.
    Though if I lived in Japan it would be available today, but it won't launch there until later, so I'd have to travel to the US to pick up the game, but then it would no longer be today it would be yesterday.
    Time travel is so confusing.

    --
    D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    1. Re:Jumped the Gun? by Cosmik · · Score: 1

      It's the usual act of opening the servers a day before the "official" launch date because some shops get their orders in quickly. I guess companies see it preferable that people whine about having trouble creating accounts and experiencing broken content, as opposed to the whines about having to wait another day.

    2. Re:Jumped the Gun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. I got mine at EBGames (locally) tonight and I'm installing it right now.

  8. For the first time ever by Timesprout · · Score: 3, Funny

    There will be a mass almost RTFA as all the geeks hit the link to perv, I mean study the Heather Graham pics.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
    1. Re:For the first time ever by Col.+Bloodnok · · Score: 1

      Well, I went there to find out who Heather Graham is. I'm not planning to play the game, so I suppose it doesn't really matter. I assume she is some sort of actress or model, because it's clear from the article that she's a bit of a dizzy bint.

    2. Re:For the first time ever by Fishstick · · Score: 1

      I invite you to rent Boogie Nights

      should answer any questions you have about Heather

      --

      There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
      Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.

  9. I played Everquest up to level....19.... by PerpetualMotion · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Can anyone who plays tell me what the appeal is? Every other MMORPG has had a better community, better gameplay, better customer service. What about this game drives parents to neglect their children and children to neglect their studies?

    1. Re:I played Everquest up to level....19.... by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 0

      It stands to reason that as a non-douche, you wouldn't get why a bunch of douches like something.

      I know, I could have said that in a nicer way, but maybe I'm a douche.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    2. Re:I played Everquest up to level....19.... by nijk · · Score: 1

      Everquest was the first famous MMORPG.

      Don't even talk about Ultima okay.

    3. Re:I played Everquest up to level....19.... by DrXym · · Score: 1
      It's hard to say. I also played EQ, up to level 23 or so before I gave in.


      By that point all the fun had evaporated. Each level got harder to do, more repetitive and the exp was pathetic. I'd spend hours camped in Kunark killing black / yellow con things and my blue bar would inch up a couple of pixels. If I was lucky I might get a drop I could use for jewelcrafting to break the monotony. When I got really sick of it all I might go on a crafting binge and hang out in the tunnel and /auc for a while. I made money, but it was grind, grind, grind.


      I didn't ask myself "am I having fun?" because initially I was, but slowly with time it had been replaced with reptition. Then I read an article about Skinner Boxes (that someone posted on /.) and I reealised that was exactly what EQ had become. It wasn't fun - it was about pecking a box and being randomly rewarded with seed.


      On top of that, the game was massively, horribly disproportionately top heavy. Practically every new zone was designed for high levels. Yeah there were a few new newbie zones but two full expansions contained nothing for anyone under level 35. The market was flooded with new elite gear. Crafted gear that took an age to make and used to command a premium wouldn't sell for 1pp. Newbies were twinked out in 500pp of armour from new zone drops and so on. The economy was fucked. It all became a waste of time in every sense of the word. The final straw was the botched upgrade when Shadows of Luclin came out. The game was unplayable for a month because of the new (and buggy) graphics engine. I gave up soon after.


      Other MMPORGs have tried to fix the problems in EQ and some have screwed up in their own ways, but few have approached EQ for sheer brokeness.


      Recently I played Star Wars Galaxies on 14 day trial (that someone in /. kindly pointed me to) and frankly I thought it was a heap of shit too. It didn't suffer the same top heaviness as EQ (yet) and the crafting and progression was far more sophisticated but the tread mill was clearly evident. I was a newbie for those days, and spent most of it shooting critters and digging ore to craft weapons. I could have also danced on a macro loop like some appeared to be doing - woo hoo! Frankly I saw nothing interesting or compelling in the game. It was another Skinner Box and not even one where you even felt immersed with anything approaching Star Wars. I sure hope the expansion pack with space ships improves it.


      And this is the most worrisome thing about EQ2 - it has Verant, EQ and SWG as its parents. That's a very troublesome combination. It means high monthly fees, bugs, expansion packs (that are almost compulsary for higher levels) and an uncaring and indifferent management. I think I'll pass.

  10. So many mmporgs, so little time by ActionJesus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    By a coincedence, Ive been looking at the warcraft game today, dreaming about playing it. Probably dont have the time or money at the moment, but it looks pretty shiny.

    But answer me this: Everquest 2 will, one would assume, appeal to all the EQ addicts already out there. But the EQ addicts are already playing EQ: so whats this trying to achieve? Why should I play this over, say, world of warcraft or city of heros (which ive heard is meant to be excellent)

    I have no doubt that this will be massively popular, but honestly whos the intended audience? Do old EQ players get to transfer their characters over, or is it start again from scratch for all?

    1. Re:So many mmporgs, so little time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think of the most frustrating situation you can that isn't quite frustrating enough to cause you to quit your addiction. That's how it'll be.

    2. Re:So many mmporgs, so little time by Ironica · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But answer me this: Everquest 2 will, one would assume, appeal to all the EQ addicts already out there. But the EQ addicts are already playing EQ: so whats this trying to achieve? Why should I play this over, say, world of warcraft or city of heros (which ive heard is meant to be excellent)

      EQ was amazing when it came out, but the code is just way too kluged together for it to ever be "modernized" sufficiently to compete against newer games. Since they had to rebuild from the ground up anyway, they decided to make it a whole new game (it's at a different time point in the EQ universe), so that hard-core addicts would have to subscribe to *both* games.

      That being said, SOE doesn't seem to have learned anything whatsoever from all their long experience, so even though I have 2.5 years in Norrath under my belt, I have no interest at all in EQ2.

      I'm chomping at the bit for WoW, though... when my husband started playing the beta back in April or so, it was *already* closer to release-ready than SWG was when I quit playing several months after release.

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    3. Re:So many mmporgs, so little time by wpc4 · · Score: 1

      I was lucky enough to get in the alpha for WoW about a year ago. The game at that point was so great, it was amazing thinking it was an alpha. I haven't played it for about 8 months, didn't have time, but I can only imagine how far it has come.

    4. Re:So many mmporgs, so little time by LoserMLW · · Score: 1

      Have to agree with Ironica. Coming on the heels of Ultima Online, EQ was a drastic step forward for the way we gamed online en masse.

      Fast forward 6 years, and SOE is still putting the cart before the horse. Game after game gets launched early. Content constantly gets promised and delivered late if ever, and certainly not for free. Customers pay their hard earned entertainment dollars for sub-par features.

      I've played a span of MMORPG's. Ultima Online, EverQuest, Star Wars: Galaxies, Final Fantasy VI, City of Heroes, and soon, World of Warcraft. Out of that list, the only positive experiences I have had are with the last 3 games. Final Fantasy IV had it's legs when it hit the US, and was an immersive and beautiful world. City of Heroes was a colorful addition to MMORPG's and provided a different (if limited) action-oriented style of gameplay. And with my stress-test beta experience of World of Warcraft, Blizzard seems to have outdone themselves.

      EQ2? From all I have seen, it looks good. But, I've been burned by SOE twice now, and as the old saying goes:

      "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

      --
      - LoserMLW
      --
      "Common sense is not so common." - Voltaire
    5. Re:So many mmporgs, so little time by *weasel · · Score: 1

      The EQ box sold something around a couple million units, give or take. only ~500k of those people who got as far as actually buying the game, stayed -- not to mention those who just found the genre since then. So that means there's a huge potential audience for something that is a fantasy MMORPG, but isn't EQ.

      --
      // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
    6. Re:So many mmporgs, so little time by Harinezumi · · Score: 1

      While Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy VI were both truly excellent games, neither of them was an MMORPG. Final Fantasy XI is the one you're probably thinking of. ^^

    7. Re:So many mmporgs, so little time by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      I'm with you. I invested 5 years of sweat and blood and non-fun to get a character in EQ that I can finally enjoy. I'm not giving it up unless a game comes along that satisfies either of these criteria:

      a) It is so insanely good and enjoyable that I forget entirely about my EQ character. (This is ideal, but very, very hard for any game to achieve)

      b) It doesn't require much of a time commitment to be reasonably more fun than EQ.

      It's not EQ2. Back before there was EQ there was M59 and UO, both fun games in their own right. EQ was the next step above them (in most ways, we lost good PvP somewhere in there). Companies aren't trying to build a new generation of MMOG, they're just trying to build a better EQ clone. They're not going to attract a big audience that way. Just a few new people, a bunch of people disgruntled with and probably a substantial number of "try and ditch" people on release.

    8. Re:So many mmporgs, so little time by ureshii_akuma · · Score: 1

      Actually, EQ2 is not intended to appeal to the EQ addict. It is meant to appeal to people who have left EQ because it did not appeal to them. Whether it succeeds at appealing to these people or not remains to be seen, but so far people who have gone into EQ2 thinking it is a shiny new version of EQ have been throughouly surprised (and either please or disappointed, depending on what they wre hoping for).

    9. Re:So many mmporgs, so little time by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      It is meant to appeal to people who have left EQ because it did not appeal to them.

      Which is rich coming from SOE.

      A lot of us left solely because the unappealing thing was SOE's mismanagement of the patch cycle, the balancing, the changes in content, and logging in every month to find out that your class was no longer desirable. (Kinda hard to have a class that is raid-required, but not desired in a group because other classes can fill in and give the group a higher kill-rate.)

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
  11. Seriously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    does it run on Linux (with Cedega)?

    1. Re:Seriously... by rogabean · · Score: 5, Informative

      No it doesn't. I had to install a windows machine just to beta test it... and tried frantically to get it working under cedega. the directx 9c req. kills it currently.

      --
      "why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
    2. Re:Seriously... by Yiliar · · Score: 1

      I have been trying with the pre release character creation stuff but it won't go. I am going to try the final release anyways.

  12. Not as good as Progress Quest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    It's still not as good as Progress Quest.

    It seems the progressquest authors were to first to streamline the gameplay enough to remove the tedious parts and remove the tedium from the user that cames in this category suffer from.

    1. Re:Not as good as Progress Quest by beowulfcluster · · Score: 1

      Indeed, I can't wait for the expansion. They'd better let us import our existing characters though, I'll be pissed off if all the effort that's gone into my level 83 enchanted motorcycle voodoo princess will have been wasted.

    2. Re:Not as good as Progress Quest by Cynikal · · Score: 1

      if you've played it help me out, where do i find the towel in the first quest?

  13. eq2 by fenix_ix · · Score: 1

    Hehe, there goes the neighborhood.

  14. Re:Firefox 1.0? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Firefox 1.0 gets released November 9th. You're off by a day.

  15. EQ2 and WoW by TexVex · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I found out last weekend that WoW will run pretty well on my two year old laptop with rather unspectacular video hardware. The integrated video hardware has some 3D accelleration and 32 MB of memory on it. That machine can't run Star Wars Galaxies, and no way will it run EQ2.

    --
    Fun with Anagarams! LADS HOST, SHALT DOS. HAS DOLTS. AD SLOTHS, HATS SOLD. ASS HO, LTD.
    1. Re:EQ2 and WoW by rogabean · · Score: 5, Informative

      EQ2 on the following:

      Geforce 5500 256
      AMD 2500+
      512 RAM
      Windows XP Pro

      In order to make EQ2 playable I had to turn most options down or off. The game in turn didn't look all that spectacular.

      Take your own specs and scale from there. This game is a HUGE resource hog.

      Sony themselves will warn you in game if you try to max out the graphics that only about 3% of all computers can handle the full settings.

      --
      "why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
    2. Re:EQ2 and WoW by Solitude · · Score: 1

      Try getting a 10k Raptor hard drive, too. I found it much easier to play two Star Wars Galaxies clients as the hard drive was the bottleneck.

      For reference, I have a P4 3GHz, 1 Gig RAM, and an ATI 9600, not sure exactly what version. The hard drive kept thrashing so I picked up a raptor and it runs much better now.

    3. Re:EQ2 and WoW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sony themselves will warn you in game if you try to max out the graphics that only about 3% of all computers can handle the full settings.

      I liked Unreal 2004's way of warning you. As soon as you set all the graphics setting to max it would say "HOOOOOLLLLLYYYYY SHIIIIIIIIIT." Doesn't get much clearer than that.

    4. Re:EQ2 and WoW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      quite frankly it'll refuse to run on many machines. Have anything older than a TI4400 and you're out of luck. Have 3 friends that have no cash to upgrade....but WOW will play on their old computers, EQ2 will not.

      So, which do you think we'll be playing?

    5. Re:EQ2 and WoW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, surprise, you bought an FX-era nVidia card, you have a shit graphics card. The rest of the specs are fine.

    6. Re:EQ2 and WoW by Katharine · · Score: 1

      AC wrote: So, surprise, you bought an FX-era nVidia card, you have a shit graphics card. The rest of the specs are fine.

      I disagree, I was playing the beta for a while and let me tell you, you need a lot more RAM. In fact, if you look at Sony's own site they tell you that you need at least 1G RAM.

    7. Re:EQ2 and WoW by Warped1 · · Score: 1

      This is very true. I had the same experience and had to upgrade from 512 to 1 gig for it to be playable in Qeynos.

    8. Re:EQ2 and WoW by mobilebuddha · · Score: 1

      now imagine when SoE implements some modern day technologies such as seamless world (no zones). like AC1 did 4-5 years ago.

    9. Re:EQ2 and WoW by randalx · · Score: 1

      from the FAQ:

      What are the game's requirements?
      -Operating System: Windows 98/2000/ME/XP
      -Processor: 1GHz or greater
      -RAM: 512 MB
      -Video Card: DirectX 9 compatible. Pixel shader and vertex shader compatible hardware with 64 MB of texture memory
      -Sound Card: DirectSound compatible audio hardware

    10. Re:EQ2 and WoW by duggy_92127 · · Score: 1
      Sony themselves will warn you in game if you try to max out the graphics that only about 3% of all computers can handle the full settings.

      Geforce 6800 GT
      Athlon64 3500+
      1GB RAM

      Live in your world... get pwn3d in mine.

      Doug

    11. Re:EQ2 and WoW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too bad you have a craptacular video card. You probably would've been better off getting a GF4mx and a hooker.

    12. Re:EQ2 and WoW by Katharine · · Score: 1

      Also from the FAQ:

      What are the reccomended hardware specifications for the game?

      Operating System: Windows 98/2000/ME/XP
      Processor: 2 GHz or greater
      RAM: 1 GB
      Video Card: DirectX 9 compatible; pixel shader and vertex shader compatible hardware with 128 MB or more of texture memory
      Sound Card: DirectSound compatible audio hardware


  16. Still Carebear by frozencesium · · Score: 1

    after all these years... does no one have a sense of compitition anymore? i'm going to go play WoW, Guildwars, etc...let the griefing begin... -Frozen Whitwood, New Age United (aka Elba) Proud Pirate and Elbanaught For Elba!

    --
    I'm not always the brightest pixel in the stream
    1. Re:Still Carebear by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Competition griefing. Screw you and your PvP buddies. No one has to pay to be a victim anymore, with all the compitition out there. Your day is over.

      Plus, griefing is now quickly and harshly penalized in many games (whoot!). Grief in City of Heroes? you'll never get to play any other NCSoft published game. Blacklists for fuckwits. Thats what the gaming world has needed for a LONG time.

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    2. Re:Still Carebear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's great about Guild Wars (amongst many things) is that each mission/area (except for towns) are instanced. You and your party are the only people there. The same mission can be done by a thousand groups at the same time, and each group is alone in the area.

      I was previously unaware of the NCSoft blacklists. Reminds me of the Lineage 2 beta days....

      Guild Wars is also NCSoft territory, so happy days are here at least.

    3. Re:Still Carebear by Rallion · · Score: 1

      You just mentioned two games that are incredibly difficult to grief in. WoW has no kill stealing and all PvP combat is explicitly consentual, even on PvP servers. Guild Wars....it's all instanced. You really can't mess with people at all. So pretty muc hte only thing you can do is spam the chat.

    4. Re:Still Carebear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      S'ok he also trumpeted a guild (New Age United) that tried to be neutral in Shadowbane (please don't attack us, we're neutral!). That was until their city was razed, then they had to pick a team finally.

      Hardly a griefer guild.

  17. To speak freely: by Upaut · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was in the Everquest 2 beta, and I have to say this: Its not ready !

    The graphics are fine, the gameplay oddly like World of Warcraft, and some of the quests are quite nice (I was particularly fond of the reference to '8-bit-theaters' sword chucks in a quest in Freeport...) Yet the zones are to big for the servers, the lag too familar, and the stability - not so good. My opinion: The game cannot currently support the great numbers it is sure to attract.

    If your fond of the pain of lag, the bitter load-time, and being overly clunky, go right ahead and buy EQ2. If you like a smooth, sweet, and overally tasty mmorpg, wait a few more weeks and get WOW.

    --
    3 degrees of separation from Vladimir Putin
    1. Re:To speak freely: by rogabean · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You are 100% right Upaut. The game can not support the players coming. It couldn't support us beta testers. I say Ho's will be off within 5 minutes. Lagtonica down in 2 hours (people gotta find their way there) Commonlands in about 1 hour. Client/Server patch in 3.2 hours that will take about 4 hours to download... (if you are VERY lucky) seriously... what are they thinking? they wanted to beat blizzard to market to capture market share, but this is going to hurt them getting there before blizzard with an unplayable game in its current state. I hope the live players have as much fun in the chat rooms as we did... constantly.

      --
      "why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
    2. Re:To speak freely: by Solitude · · Score: 1

      I plan on creating a character and beating feet out of the beginner zones to some faraway zone. Any suggestions on where to head to that a level 1 player can survive?

    3. Re:To speak freely: by obsid1an · · Score: 1

      When are beta testers going to understand that they are just that, beta testers. You think they invite a couple thousand beta testers because they all provide meaningful feedback? To a point of course, but the main job of a beta tester is to just play. The servers are purposefully packed to the point of capacity to stress them and work on the networking code. This also gives a good idea on the number servers needed when the game goes live. If you are going to complain about EQ2 not being ready complain about gameplay. BTW, I'm playing in the WoW beta and I constantly lag as well and see others chopping all around like crazy.

    4. Re:To speak freely: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, I can complain about gameplay. I played a fighter/artisan in the beta as my main character. The combat stuff worked well enough, but many encounters gave gear as a reward that was too high a level to use. On a personal note, I like to play as part of a regular duo, but the game's solo-discouraging tactics also work against duos. Some content cannot be accessed by duos no matter what level. In my opinion, they've gone too far in terms of encouraging groups.

      It's a good thing that the game does have huge zones, because at least with my computer, zoning always takes a very long time and city zones areas require excessive zoning. I'd typically start to zone, then go to the kitchen to get a snack and come back a couple of minutes later just in time to zone into the new zone. I went out and bought more RAM, once my copy of the game shows up (tomorrow I hope), I'll find out if it's any better.

      Quests are limited to 50 per character at a time, when they were originally planning to allow many more quests. The reason? The way the game is designed, 50 quests per character was putting too much stress on the servers. I hate to say it, but it is laughably easy to get more than 50 quests at a time.

      The artisan stuff is badly messed up. They made huge changes to the artisan system mere days before the beta ended, changes that were too broken to test until literally the last 12 hours of the beta. Many of the artisan recipes are broken and for some artisan classes at higher levels, non-existent. One hopes they get them in before the hard-core power gamers level up.

    5. Re:To speak freely: by obsid1an · · Score: 1

      I understand the game is centered around partying. I'm not sure where the complaints are coming from as EQ2 always has been a party centered game and the developers have actively promoted it as such.

      I am not that concerned with high level content atm because I am not a power gamer. By the time I actually reach that content it will most likely be all good, however I can see this as a complaint for power gamers. Of course if you are a power gamer it won't take you long at all to max out your level in WoW.

      You complain about 50 quests per person. By this I assume you mean 50 open quests. I don't know what there the complaint about considering WoW allows less than half of that - 20. I think 50 open quests is MORE than adaquate.

      My only real concern is the artisian part of the game. It still needs work but I do like one thing they are doing. Trying to macro/bot your skill up is going to be extremely hard due to the nature of it. That looks extremely promising.

    6. Re:To speak freely: by LordIvan · · Score: 1

      The graphics are fine, the gameplay oddly like World of Warcraft,

      Oddly like world of warcraft?
      You meant, of course, that WoW is oddly like EQ1, riiight? :)

    7. Re:To speak freely: by deanj · · Score: 1

      Zones are instanced, so don't worry about that. Plenty of room for everyone.

      Do the boat tutorial, that'll get you to level 2. Once on the island, you should be level 3 when you talk to the first guy you're told to. Not much harder to get to level 6, and off the island.

    8. Re:To speak freely: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      obsid1an wrote You complain about 50 quests per person. By this I assume you mean 50 open quests. I don't know what there the complaint about considering WoW allows less than half of that - 20. I think 50 open quests is MORE than adaquate.

      True perhaps for WoW, but not, in my opinion, for Everquest II.

      First, note the name of the game, EverQUEST. The game has a lot of quests to be done and they are a major source of fun in the game. Some of them are quests to collect objects that you randomly find and pick up throughout the world-- it isn't practical to just decide to finish one or another of them unless you only want to run around for hours staring at the ground. Some of the quests have multiple sections that you must wait until you level up to complete. For example, there is a simple delivery quest that you can complete as soon as you get off the Isle of Refuge that has a second part which requires a character at least in the teens to complete safely. Most people are going to keep that quest open for several levels.

      You are probably correct that a person armed with information from a spoiler site about which quests have the best rewards will find 50 quests to be enough. (Such a person won't do that delivery quest I mentioned above when he or she comes across it, he or she will wait until the character is high enough to complete it.) But a person just enjoying running around, exploring, and talking to NPCs will have a harder time. More so, if that person plays casually and needs to save certain quest for when they will have an uninterrupted play session long enough to work on them. It is going to depend a lot on playstyle. You might not find it restrictive, but I do.

  18. Re:Firefox 1.0? by Pleione · · Score: 0, Redundant

    It is November 9th.

  19. Get in early by Solitude · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I already warned my future ex-girlfriend that this was coming out. I was there on week one of Everquest. Sold my account 18 months later for $2,250. You gotta get there early to get the good stuff before they turn off the overpowered items drops.

    1. Re:Get in early by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's an average of $9.25 you earned per day of play if you played every day. It's weird to think that the guy who bought it probably made that money in around 2-4 weeks.

    2. Re:Get in early by ShelfWare · · Score: 2

      If you played an average of 30 hours a week for 18 months, then you made about $0.96 dollars!

      Yeah for you!

    3. Re:Get in early by wpc4 · · Score: 1

      Not to flame, but can you estimate how many days/months you had on it?

    4. Re:Get in early by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1
      An article I saw somewhere on the economy of Everquest worked out that the guys who are levelling their chars and selling them on ebay/etc earned...dumb dumb dumb...about $4USD / hour...or the minimum wage. It's a lot to aspire for, but I'm going to stick with my programming job instead, at least until it goes to Bangalore.

      OMG, there's a thought. I'll just hire some cheap-ass Bangalorean to power level characters for me to sell over here in the US! My new business plan:

      Offshore power levelling to Bangalore

      ???

      Profit!!!

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    5. Re:Get in early by Walkiry · · Score: 1

      Lineage 2 already beat you to it.

      --
      ---- Take the Space Quiz!
    6. Re:Get in early by Afty0r · · Score: 1
      You gotta get there early to get the good stuff before they turn off the overpowered items drops.
      Why?
    7. Re:Get in early by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not take a real job instead of making less than minimum wage on a shitty game, and losing someone special in the process?

      Natural selection, I suppose.

    8. Re:Get in early by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a ex-beta tester, I've got something I need to tell you.

      Overpowered item drops? Hell, the were still adding items onto the encounters for the level 15-25 encounters in the last couple of days.

      *shakes head* stupid releasing for WoW

    9. Re:Get in early by Solitude · · Score: 1

      I don't remember, but it was a lot. I had mostly stopped playing after a year. For the next few months I played very little, then the last couple months hardly at all. I was all set to cancel my account when I thought to throw it on Ebay first. I made a list and screenshots of every item I had, some of which were no longer dropped in the game or harder to get, such as the manastone and box of abu-kar. I also had a ton of platinum pieces as a result of hill giant hunting. This was back before PPs were actually useful.

      I didn't go into the game looking at it as a way to make money. I never farmed items for cash. Selling my account was the first and last Ebay sale I've ever made. Pretty cool to get paid $2,250 for something that was just for fun, though.

  20. E-V-E-R-Q-U-E-S-T ?? by Anenga · · Score: 5, Funny

    Will this "Everquest" help me in getting an Open Beta CD-Key for WoW from the duct-taped together webserver that is FilePlanet.com? Or perhaps assist me in my perilous presuit of refreshing "signup.worldofwarcraft.com" every 5 seconds in hopes of grasping -- ever so quickly -- that final bliss-filled orgamsmic joy of actually getting to play?

    /Already got CD-Key suckers

    1. Re:E-V-E-R-Q-U-E-S-T ?? by friedmud · · Score: 1

      LOL

      I am laughing because I've been hitting signup.worldofwarcraft.com all day today as well (and you are spot on about FilePlanet today as well).

      I actually got my Beta key early last week - but had to be out of town. I played in the WoW first stress test for a week and it was an absolute blast! I've never played an MMORPG before - but I'm definitely picking up WoW in a couple of weeks...

      Everquest what?

      Friedmud

    2. Re:E-V-E-R-Q-U-E-S-T ?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In all honesty I am starting to wonder about Blizzard. They can't keep there website up for more than a few days without a crash and some downtime and they can't seem to hold events like an Open Beta without massive problems. For example www.worldofwarcraft.com is down right now. I'm sorry but that File Planet garbage today was non-sense. The site login forms stopped working about 2 minutes after they announced that keys could be gotten there. Why in the hell do we need to go through File Planet to get into the "Open Beta"?

    3. Re:E-V-E-R-Q-U-E-S-T ?? by Peyna · · Score: 1

      File Planet has a limited number of OB Keys that Blizzard is letting them give out to let people start a few days earlier on OB. Once those run out, Blizzard will release the rest directly. File Planet is only required if you want a few day jump.

      --
      What?
    4. Re:E-V-E-R-Q-U-E-S-T ?? by Rallion · · Score: 1

      Not quite. If Blizzard's site wasn't dead you'd be able to get a non-FP key right now. A Fileplanet key just gurantees you a spot. Blizzard will stop account creation from their 'public' key once they're full.

  21. WoW? by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
    This isn't entirely off topic because it is important that while EQ2 launches today, so does the WoW open beta. I wonder how much of an affect that will have on people.

    Now, that being said, Fileplanet is out of beta keys, and so I'm wondering if anybody has details on when I'll be able to get into the open beta. Damn fileplanet and them leeching off every fun thing that used to exist with games.

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    1. Re:WoW? by rhettoric · · Score: 1

      I think the rest of us are in the same boat. Though I did get to see fileplanet's wonderful flash advertising and I was able to submit a request, I haven't had any indication that anything actually worked.

      That's okay though...I have my mad minesweeper skilzz to see me through the next few weeks.

    2. Re:WoW? by glowimperial · · Score: 1

      I managed to get into the WoW open beta, via fileplanet, but WoW's site is down so I can't create an account. I think fileplanet probably ran out of Beta keys in the first hour. My roommate wasn't able to get one and she was there right at the start. Supposedly more Beta keys will be given out either via Fileplanet or the WoW site itself, in the coming days.

    3. Re:WoW? by llefler · · Score: 1

      Actually, the best reason to avoid WoW and try out EQ2 is the way Blizzard has handled this open beta. Two weeks from release and their servers have completely melted down. They have completely taken the WoW.com site down. They're telling everyone to go to battle.net for info. For a while you could go directly to the forums, but now you get ACL errors. Other pages are 404s. signups.worldofwarcraft.com has cratered, you'll get a dozen connection refused between each page, and eventually get a session timeout. File Planet also melted, but it's not like that is any surprise. They had the same problem during the stress test two months ago, but not as severely. But every time they did game server maintenance, the web site would become a smoking hole under the load. Certainly not encouraging. Maybe when they can't get a reliable system by spring, they'll install Apache and get things working.

      --
      It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. -- Harry Truman
    4. Re:WoW? by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      I realize the severity of the problem, but I don't doubt these are problems that can be solved now that they have more insight into the demand. Which is exactly what this indicates, an incredibly huge demand for their game.

      If I was working for Blizzard and WASN'T one of the techies responsible for fixing all this, I'd be fucking ecstatic.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    5. Re:WoW? by Rallion · · Score: 2, Informative

      The game servers themselves are just fine. The web server and the game servers are not related.

      I'd be more concerned if they were to put all their efforts into the webserver, rather than keep the game working right.

    6. Re:WoW? by llefler · · Score: 1

      It seems the patch servers are affected too. I've seen plenty of people with problems there as well.

      More and more often, online companies use their web sites as the primary means of communication. Try finding a phone number you can call at Amazon. Try fixing a billing problem on MSN Zone. So when they take the game servers down to fix a problem, and the web server dies from the load (if you accessed their forums, you've seen the errors), customers lose their only means of communicating with the company. It's unacceptable and unprofessional.

      They have done a lot of work to link the game to their web site. So when the web server fails, part of their game is not working.

      Let me give you an Everquest example. SOE has this nice web page you can go to and check the status of any world. Now suppose you have trouble logging in, so you go to the web site to check and see if the world you play on is having a problem. But you can't see anything because their web site is down too. You've paid your subscription, but you aren't going to be playing and you have no idea why, because someone decided "it's only the website, not a game server". And that is exactly the situation we had during the initial stress test, and it's much, much worse right now.

      --
      It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. -- Harry Truman
    7. Re:WoW? by llefler · · Score: 1

      I don't buy the "we underestimated demand" line. I think it's more along the lines of "we overestimated the capability of our systems". I would never put a page on my website and then post it to Slashdot, my broadband wouldn't handle the load. There are any number of ways they could have managed things so that their servers didn't just fall over.

      Everybody has to go through their signup system. It was completely inadequate. So I'm betting we're going to revisit this in a couple weeks when the game launches. But then it's going to be people who have spent money who are going to be pissed. If they don't make some changes now, I'm predicting a very rough launch and a big black eye for Blizzard.

      --
      It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. -- Harry Truman
  22. Bad Advice by Yenin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Part of the fun of online games is doing things for the first time. If you wait a year, yes you may avoid a few bugs but you will be missing out on the most interesting time of the game when everything is new and exciting.

    1. Re:Bad Advice by rogabean · · Score: 1

      Can't argue that. It was a blast being in beta and seeing these things for the first time "all over again". But it was ruined alot by the server stability.

      I'd rather wait a few months to see bugs hammered out on some of the major issues and experience those things for the first time the way they were intended, then to rush to see them in a half-ass manner.

      --
      "why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
    2. Re:Bad Advice by Ironica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Part of the fun of online games is doing things for the first time. If you wait a year, yes you may avoid a few bugs but you will be missing out on the most interesting time of the game when everything is new and exciting.

      Except that with SOE's tendency toward "supermodel" releases (they look pretty but have no content), you won't miss the opportunity to do all that new stuff until at *least* six months after launch.

      You'll just not be sick of staring at the prettiness when you do finally jump in.

      In other news, you can finally fly spacecraft in SWG, just 200% longer after release than originally stated...

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    3. Re:Bad Advice by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      Not really. Having played SoE games for years now at the bleeding edge and not, it's usually far more enjoyable to be on the path most travelled. The bugs are worked out, the encounters operate like they ought to, and you generally spend more time having fun, and less time waiting around beating your head on the wall and discovering it was because of a bug.

      I play a few hours a night, I want all those hours to be productive and enjoyable. Let someone else be my crash test dummy. If that person is silly enough to PAY to beta test...well I have no sympathy.

  23. Is it still only for people without a life? by Snaller · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Where it takes a real time year to get from level 1 to 50? (As opposed to a the month it should take)

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    1. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by Ironica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Where it takes a real time year to get from level 1 to 50? (As opposed to a the month it should take)

      "Should" according to...?

      A year is probably too long, but a month is way too short, for my satisfaction. I've been playing WoW for a couple months, very casually, because I have a four-month-old baby to take care of ;-) and I'm level 25 (almost 26!) which seems about right to me. If I get a solid block of a few hours and a good group, and I have a lot of rested exp saved up, I can get a level or so in one sitting... that feels about right. I make enough progress to feel like I got somewhere even when I can't dedicate a whole lot of time, but it's not so quick as to feel trivial when I get a new level. The pacing is really quite good as far as I'm concerned.

      Now, if you have no life, and play 40 hours a week in long uninterrupted blocks, you might make 50 in a month. But I wouldn't want to be you, if that was the case.

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    2. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by Kohath · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Getting to level 50 isn't the point of the game.

    3. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by redJag · · Score: 1

      People in the stress test were hitting level 40 in about a week, just FYI. I am pretty happy with the leveling curve, although it *could* be a tad steeper after level 10 imo.

    4. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by NoseSocks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      See, this is what I don't get. If it took a real time year to get from level 1 to 50, but I was going on real adventures, doing real quests, affecting the gaming world, etc, I wouldn't mind... because I was having fun doing it.
      If the game isn't going to be fun unless you're leveling, why waste so much of your time?

    5. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by Ironica · · Score: 1

      People in the stress test were hitting level 40 in about a week, just FYI.

      People in the stress test were competing for a chance to get into the closed beta. Probably quite a few used up vacation time or skipped classes and played every moment possible... which is doable for a week. It's hard to sustain, though.

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    6. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by llefler · · Score: 1

      Actually, in a MMORPG with an 'average' player, one level a week is not bad. Of course the early levels go much faster. There are people who will play 20 hours a day and level like mad, but that's not a sustainable base. You want the people who will stay around for 2 or 3 years, and with the current level 60 cap, there's no way it's going to last that long.

      If all of your players are 'gotta get to the next level' types, there is a content problem with your game.

      --
      It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. -- Harry Truman
    7. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by Snaller · · Score: 1

      All those games have a content problem, its repetitivt and boring - getting to next level is the only amusing thing.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    8. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by Snaller · · Score: 1

      "Should" according to...?


      Those who stop playing again because it takes too long to get anywhere.

      been playing WoW for a couple months, very casually, because I have a four-month-old baby to take care of ;-) and I'm level 25 (almost 26!) which seems about right to me.

      Thanks for reminding me not to try wow.

      Now, if you have no life, and play 40 hours a week in long uninterrupted blocks, you might make 50 in a month. But I wouldn't want to be you, if that was the case.

      And since i want to be me, i want them to change their games ;)

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    9. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by Snaller · · Score: 1

      Getting to level 50 isn't the point of the game.

      For you.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    10. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by Snaller · · Score: 1

      See, the clever reader might have thought "Since he is asking what it is like, he is probably not playing it"

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    11. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by Rallion · · Score: 2, Informative

      He's VERY casual. It's not a challenge to hit 25 in a week if you don't have anything else to do. Hitting level ten, the point at which you really get into the game, takes about 6 hours, I'd say. Past that it depends on play style. You can max level (60) in a month, if you really want to. And they're working hard to make sure that character will still have plenty to do afterwards.

      THe nice thing about the game is that it makes an attempt to cater to everybody. It doesn't succeed fully, of course, because that's just impossible, but it comes much closer than I expected.

    12. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by Snaller · · Score: 1

      Seems their public beta is up again - if that is so it wouldn't cost a fortune to check that :)

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    13. Re:Is it still only for people without a life? by redJag · · Score: 1

      Eh, most of them that I encountered were kids in highschool. They could sustain it.

  24. Heather Graham by PerpetualMotion · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think we all know why they wanted Heather Graham *NSFW* involved with EQ2. People are tired with elves. I wonder how long until the nude patch is leaked.

    1. Re:Heather Graham by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Butterface.

  25. Good by pHatidic · · Score: 4, Funny

    For those of us who don't pre-order EQ2, our chances of surviving and reproducing just went way up.

    1. Re:Good by Cynikal · · Score: 1

      your hypothesis is a bit off, based on the flawed assumption that those who are playing EQ were actually competition to your chances of breeding and surviving.

      oh no here i go trolling again

  26. troll? by iamnotacrook · · Score: 2, Informative
    I cant agree with this post. I have also been beta testing Everquest and in the last few months the game rapidly increased in stability. Either you werent paying attention or this is a troll.

    Sadly however, ongoing interest in online RPG is doomed in the face of the Halo onslaught. Why are people so keen to use guns rather than brains in a game?

    1. Re:troll? by rogabean · · Score: 1

      not a troll.. just one beta testers opinion from the beta 1 server.

      I'm not going to argue that they didn't improve things alot on the last month or so... but I still think it's being rushed out the door too soon.

      I want to see EQ2 take off... alot. I'm just disappointed in their decision to rush it out the door in a battle for who can get to market first.

      I can see the game being more playable (with the large numbers it will have .. not the lower beta player numbers) in a few months.

      --
      "why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
    2. Re:troll? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Why are people so keen to use guns rather than brains in a game?"

      you've got to be fucking kidding me!

  27. Easy solution by TapTapTheChisler · · Score: 3, Funny

    Move your system clock ahead 17 hours and refresh the page

  28. no contest for WoW by sinner0423 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sorry.. but World of Warcraft is simply going to destroy EQ2.

    EQ2 only took almost 6 years to be released after the original - way too long, imo. I hear it isn't ready, and they rushed it to compete with WoW. Sony is probably nervous.. and for a good reason.

    Blizzard is poised to win big with this game. They've had HUGE success with Warcraft, an extensive fanbase, and the MMO really does immerse you. I was part of the limited beta(s) and it's been quite a trip.

    The graphical stylings of WoW (and the sheer attention to detail) really make it a contender. Sorry to come across sounding like a fanboy, I probably won't play due to the fact that i'm broke and i've got other things on my plate. But if I had the time & money, i'd be on my troll shaman right now.

    I urge any MMO fan to give Blizzard's new project a shot, it's worth your cash. Oh, and play on Sargeras, cause I said so.

    1. Re:no contest for WoW by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Blizzard is poised to win big with this game. They've had HUGE success with Warcraft, an extensive fanbase, and the MMO really does immerse you

      If the playerbase is anything even SLIGHTLY resembling the Battle.net community, I don't see how it could possibly even come close to being immersive.

      That is, unless you consider a minotaur saying things like "WTB 4SjO 5000gp ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^" immersive. Uh. Yeah. I'll skip MMORPGs until they make one that doesn't attract complete morons... probably hopeless, but until then I have RP MUDs to occupy my time. (And yeah, the RP MUDs are actually immersive. With no budget and a thousandth the bandwidth. Go figure.)

    2. Re:no contest for WoW by Tobias+Luetke · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The way people compare EQ2 with WOW is flattering to EQ all by itself.

      I can understand that many people don't realize blizzard for what it is. Blizzard is a game developers DREAM.

      Everyone in the industry dreams of working for blizzard, they employ the best artists the best game designers and some of the best programmers. Next to id, valve, bungee and bioware they have the unique position of taking any amount of time they like for their games. Every single of their games so far already payed for its development in pre orders, publishers will not mess with this track record.

      Blizzard South decided to make an MMO game and from day one It was clear that this game will be remarkable. What they delivered is not only a excellent game but it is also embarrasses the other contenders in this genre with its. There is no way that this game wouldn't have been on the shelf half a year ago if it would have come from any other developer, instead they kept it in beta till it fulfilled the "blizzard vision" of the perfect MMO.

      Check out their trackrecord :

      http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/simpler at ings.asp?companyid=361&sort=0

    3. Re:no contest for WoW by Snaller · · Score: 1

      battle.net is free - here you have to pay.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    4. Re:no contest for WoW by Alban · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, I work in the games industry (for a company that has a few AAA titles), and while I respect blizzard (I actually have a friend who works there), not every developer wants to spend 5 years on a single game. Their games are always super polished though, so the extra time does pay off.

      As for id, yes they have some really impressive talent, but again, 4 years for a game like doom 3, well...

      Bungee is totally awesome though. Although not everyone likes their games (well almost everyone does!), they do deliver them in a timely fashion! Halo was an exception but it's understandable since they changed target platforms a few times and were acquired in the process.

      Except for a MMO, no project should take longer than 3 years.

      You forgot to mention Naughty Dog by the way. These guys are incredible. Again, you may not like platformers, but the technology for Jak and Daxter + the game itself were developed in 3 years. And many many sony 2nd party games have been using that engine. Naughty Dog is probably one of the best (if not the best) north american console studios.

    5. Re:no contest for WoW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WoW isn't going to destroy anything. Though, it will be a successful game. WoW has nice art and the game is easy to get into but the game also feels "hollow". It seems to take the average beta tester about 3 months to become completely bored with the game. After about 1 month of playtime I have no will to continue playing WoW. Its hard to describe exactly what WoW is lacking that games like DAoC and Anarchy Online have. But one thing that WoW lacks is any sort of challenge whatsoever. There isn't even a penalty for dying. That can be fun too... I used to enjoy playing Doom on God Mode, for about 15 minutes until it got completly and utterly boring. WoW feels like a MMORPG with God Mode on at all times.

      DAoC and AO are superior games to WoW. It's true that they have had years of extra development but I was expecting more from WoW. DAoC at release was a better game than WoW as it currently stands.

    6. Re:no contest for WoW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they have the unique position of taking any amount of time they like for their games.

      OMG! I have *NEVER* heard THAT before! How insightful! Mods, mod this man to 6!

    7. Re:no contest for WoW by Schnarl · · Score: 1

      Blizzard is great, but EQ2 essentially took the majority of the good elements from WoW and then added in voice acting along with better graphics. Both are going to butt heads and split subscriber base. And then people will get tired and go play something fun.

  29. Another Beta Tester here... by MrBandersnatch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And while EQ1 may have been they game that ruled them all (for a while) EQ2 is hopefully going to be a major failure for SoE.

    Why? Well in game play terms its a massive step backwards...locked encounters, limited number of classes (basically 4 with a bit of flavouring to make it look like more),poor options for solo play, no pvp etc. etc.

    I couldnt help but feel that the game was designed by SoEs accounts and customer service departments with the sole purpose of minimising the main reasons for CS calls....Oh but it IS visually STUNNING and almost up there with morrowwind in the audio department, but even so I couldnt help but feel it was the most shallow gameplay experience I had in many years.

    1. Re:Another Beta Tester here... by Solitude · · Score: 1

      Yeah the gameplay does seem like it took a couple of steps backward. The only good thing I can see to come out of locked encounters is limiting killstealing. Canceling movement buffs? Last thing I want to do while running through a zone is get stopped every time some stupid green decides to take a whack at me.

    2. Re:Another Beta Tester here... by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 1

      Well... I consider no PvP to be a plus. Locked encounters likewise discourage idiots from interfering with my gameplay.

      I'm going to give it a shot, thought I swore not to a couple years ago when I quit EQ1. Won't touch WoW though. Blizzard is completely unforgivable... Also, I really don't dig the whole Warcraft "world". Never got into the atmospere in the RTS games, didn't really like the "flavor" that I got from watching one of my buddies in the beta play. Yes it's consistent, but it's too "cartoony" for my taste in a fantasy game...

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    3. Re:Another Beta Tester here... by cerebis · · Score: 1

      For clarification, you only lose the effect of your movement buffs if you initiate an encounter lock. A mob cannot initiate a lock itself, it will happen only when you or a group member does something to that mob.

    4. Re:Another Beta Tester here... by randalx · · Score: 1

      limited number of classes (basically 4 with a bit of flavouring to make it look like more)

      from the faq:
      Players enter this world by creating their own unique character from 16 races and 24 classes, using a powerful customization system for unprecedented player individuality.

      From the site I understand the archetypes are fighter, mage, priest, scout, artisan but that isn't too far off from most fantasy type games which follow the conventional D&D type classes of Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Thief.

      aboveGame the gamer's blog

  30. Re:Firefox 1.0? by TapTapTheChisler · · Score: 1

    Not in my universe

  31. Re:Firefox 1.0? by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

    no it's november 8th, you probably have the same crappy watch i have that doesn't do months correctly.

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  32. Hark, what's that? by deemaunik · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can hear the paperwork of divorces and welfare being shuffled across the desks of america already.

    1. Re:Hark, what's that? by archen · · Score: 1

      yeah just what I need. More emails from horney housewives who need attention.

  33. Re:Firefox 1.0? by Pleione · · Score: 1

    According to my clock and calender, it is Tuesday, November 9th, 9:00 AM. Is this release not global or something?

  34. In other news, suicidal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    everquest player has killed himself after realising his pc would refuse to run eq2.

  35. Don't need to wait by dsanfte · · Score: 4, Informative

    WoW started their open beta test today. Play WoW for free. The signups are down tonight, but should be up tomorrow.

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com

    --
    occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
    1. Re:Don't need to wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anybody else notice their "blizzard downloader" looks EXACTLY like bittorent with the blizzard logo attached. Finally one company smartened up a little!

    2. Re:Don't need to wait by Sentry21 · · Score: 1

      And once you've got an account ready and it's downloading time, but you loathe the idea of their craptacular bittorrent client, hit suprnova up for a n actual torrent.

  36. LOADING PLEASE WAIT by mcguyver · · Score: 1

    I haven't played EQ2 but I played EQ1 enough to know SOE has no problem launching a product before it is ready. The fact that EQ2 has been in development for 6 years and it is just now being released two weeks before WoW tells me this is another one of those times.

    1. Re:LOADING PLEASE WAIT by SnapperHead · · Score: 3, Informative

      Loading is a big thing to look at when compairing the 2 games.

      EQ - Takes about 10 mins to get logged in, typical zoning which takes forever. Just like EQ1.

      WoW - Takes about 1 min from loading the game, to actually play the game. There is no zoning, unless you take a large leap across the map, which still only takes 3 secs to load.

      Not talking about char creation. Talking about going from the desktop, to getting into the game with an already made char.

      All in all, WoW totally beats EQ2. Heres why:

      - Can play WoW on older machines without much trouble.
      - WoW has PVP. Not something as an after though, the game was designed with it in mind. Something Sony has never done with there games.
      - Graphics wise, EQ2 has crazy requirements. Even with the best computers, putting more then 30 people in the same place at the same time will bog down BAD. WoW still looks very nice, the graphics are a little simpler which makes playing much more reasonable.
      - Quests ... they give you good exp in WoW, they are fun, and there are *TONS* of them. Many more then EQ. Funny, another game beats EverQuest with it.
      - EQ is a grind game, spend tons and tons of hours doing nothing but killing the same mobs over and over again. In WoW, you can grind it out, or you can do quests, or both. There is no limit.
      - Customer service at Sony blows, this will NEVER change. They simply don't care.
      - Sony still doesn't understand the purpose of beta. They rather nerf everything bad after release and totally change the game. Blizzard at least has the common sense to make those changes durring beta.
      - Sony tends to just rip ideas rather then create there own.
      - The interface in WoW is MUCH easier to use and more complete. Not to mention, they actually give you an entire langauge to create the interface. Sony gives you access to simple XML files to move things around, not change how it works differently.
      - Sony has a long habbit of not fixing things. I mean come on, there are thigns in EQ1 that STILL haven't been fixed in *3* years!
      - EQ2 zerg vs WoW strategy is an interesting one. - EQ2 has tons of downtime, just like EQ1. WoW they removed that by adding things like drinks and fast respawns to get you moving faster.

      There are tons more, just don't wanna type them all. Plan and simple, Sony isn't getting another dime from me. Not after all the shit they put me through for 4 years.

      Try WoW, you will be suprised.

      --
      until (succeed) try { again(); }
    2. Re:LOADING PLEASE WAIT by TheBot · · Score: 1

      Wow....not after all the shit they put you through for 4 years...You must be one dumb f*ck to stay with them for 4 years if you were unhappy. Have a nice day :)

  37. W00t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg

    rolleyes dot gif

  38. And in related news... by Sheepdot · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... Duke Nukem Forever has announced that they "would like to rescind the comment about DNF being released before EQ2."

    Food for thought:
    "Duke Nukem Forever is a 1999 game and we think that timeframe matches very well with what we have planned for the game." - George Broussard, 1998

    "Trust us, Duke Nukem Forever will rock when it comes out next year." -Joe Siegler, 1999

    "When it's done in 2001." -2000 Christmas card

    "DNF will come out before Unreal 2." -George Broussard, 2001

    "If DNF is not out in 2001, something's very wrong." -George Broussard, 2001

    "DNF will come out before Doom 3." -George Broussard, 2002

    The Voyager 1 spacecraft has travelled approximately 2.5 billion miles since the announcement of Duke Nukem Forever.

    The rovers Spirit and Opportunity were proposed, authorized, announced, designed, launched and successfully landed upon Mars within the timeframe of Duke Nukem Forever's development.

    The majority of the children who were entering high school the school year following Duke Nukem Forever's announcement are now eligible to drink.

    And last but not least:
    "We're confident that DNF will be one of the greatest, if not the greatest, game of 1998. And this confidence is not misplaced." -Scott Miller, 1997

    Indeed, I would have to agree. When DNF finally does come out I'm sure it will blow the games of 1998 away. Or, at least, I sure as hell hope it does.

    (Sources were from all over the net, mostly the DNF forums)

  39. Pfft. by oGMo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've been playing FFXI since the US PS2 release, and it's very solid. Very solid economy, connections, etc. The only real issue I can remember is the report of people having trouble connecting during an update, and that was supposedly fixed. Of course you have the occasional lag-disconnect, or lag in areas with a lot of action, but that's the nature of the network.

    --

    Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage

    1. Re:Pfft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha! Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

      Oh, you've got to be kidding me. FFXI has bugs up the wazoo. It's very much still a paid beta, and the recent Chains of Promathia expansion just added even more flaws.

      I guess if you're using the PS2, it might be relatively stable, but that doesn't excuse the random server outages, disconnects, and other crap that Square has been shoveling out. (Remember when half of the United States couldn't connect to the game? Thanks Square!)

      There's also still the bug where if you press TAB too frequently the game will bomb on you. Doesn't sound too bad, right? Tab is how you target things on the PC. In other words, with this bug, you basically MUST use the mouse to select things. Which means you have to be looking at them. It makes it kinda hard to play.

      It's been in there from day 1 of the US release and there's no sign of fixing it yet.

      Plus - did you say "solid economy?"

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

      Oh, that one had me on the floor. FFXI's economy has got to be one of the worst MMORPG economies I've ever seen. They've managed to create a game where you literally cannot level up without the *VERY* best gear for your level. (Otherwise, you miss. A lot. Like 70%+ of the time. Even magic will miss like 70%+ of the time without the very best gear.) This gear is almost always dropped from a single mob. Even better, these mobs have respawn times on the order of hours or even days!

      Of course, these mobs are always camped 24/7 by people who like selling in-game items for cold hard cash. This is, of course, against the terms of service. But Square's official policy is to totally ignore this rampant problem. But if you use the F-word - well, that's an IMMEDIATE ban! Good to know where your priorities are, Square.

      Seriously, World of Warcraft is going to totally decimate FFXI. It's already managed to suck all my excitement for EQ2 away.

    2. Re:Pfft. by falcon5768 · · Score: 1
      YOU ARE A MORON.....

      First off the outage that hit was because of a server problem between two areas, SE had nothing to do with it as I pointed out in the slashdot article I wrote here.

      Second it IS very stable, especially compaired to WoW and EQ2. It has its small problems here or there but the game has been out for 2 years now. Its NOT a new game like these are and has been tested. CoP was almost seemless except for a few opening day bugs.

      Third the only way you can get banned like you say is if you shout extreamly offensive language (like your a shit eating pussy licker) Fuck while frowned upon you saying isnt enough to get you banned and unless you have the chat filter shut off wouldnt even show up (**** would show up in its place)

      About the only place your right is the economy which yes has been hurt by the gil sellers... but thats every game including WoW where you can ALREADY buy money online. You DO NOT need the best gear to play (I dont have the best gear and do fine on gods) and the idea you need the best gear comes from the same asshats who came from EQ to FFXI and who buy that stupid Brady Guide.

      Oh and that TAB problem... is your computer, there is no bug. Course if your pressing TAB as frequently as you are chances are you one of those gil sellers since you would only do that to NM hunt.

      --

      "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

    3. Re:Pfft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the tab thing - think "selecting a fucking door in a town." Oops, accidently got that NPC. Oops, that PC running past. Oops, here's my desktop.

      Of course, you could just use the mouse, but TAB-TAB-TAB would have been faster. (Or just F8 - Target NPC, since doors count as NPCs, but you get the idea.) Look back in the update notes. At one point they warned about this bug and suggested PC users use F8 if they wanted to get out of their Mog House.

      In my experience, it's far less stable than EQ or WOW - given that it randomly crashes when you target things with TAB.

      As for the gear - you've obviously never played the game past level 40 or so. Maybe to 50. Past that, you will *never hit* if you don't have the *very* best gear. Expect to get kicked from parties a lot if you don't.

      With the server issues, I never did see Square *ever* answer what the problem was. Just "router issues." They're moving their servers to a new location. Sounds like it was their problem, whether they admit it or not.

      Then there's the whole thing where there's nothing to do in the game from level 60 to 70, which requires 326,000 XP. To give people an idea of how insane that grind is, the XP cap on monsters is currently something like 300, but you'll never see that. Instead you'll get 150-200 a monster. Yeah, I'm gonna do that.

      Seriously, I can't wait to watch the population of Vana'diel deflate to 0. It'd be really therepeutic after I've wasted so much time on a game with no endgame content.

    4. Re:Pfft. by th3space · · Score: 1

      I had been playing that for several months, as well. Then I was sent out on a spate of business trips, failed to place my account on hold (or at the very least change the billing over to my newer bank account, being that my old one has only one branch, getting money to and from it proved to be painfully difficult when travelling), and came back to a 'final notice' of a late payment.

      I decided to log in to PlayOnline and take care of this paltry $14 bill, and was met with the message that my registration code had been suspended.

      Next thing I know, I'm on the phone with SquareEnix being told that I had to mail in the payment, and if I wanted to play the game again, I'd have to go out and purchase another copy just to use the registration code. When I told the young man on the phone that I wasn't simply playing the game on my computer, but rather on my PS2, he told me that I'd have to go buy another PS2 HDD kit to get a valid code that works with the HDD. It was at this point in the conversation that I began to seriously lament all of the monies and hours that I had poured into Square and Enix games only to be rebuffed over the amount of $15.

      Long story short...SCEA got a nasty letter, so did SquareEnix...and I have vowed to never again spend money on another SquareEnix product (a decision that was hard for me to make, given my love of so many of their franchises).

      Back on topic, though...FFXI was fairly solid, and I only had problems with disconnects when I failed to pay attention to the scheduled maintenance notices. C'est la vie...I lost access to one MMORPG just in time to have several highly touted ones to choose from!!! Hooray for the fates.

      --
      "How like you to drag your keyboard to a gun fight." - Aaron Bedard (BANE)
    5. Re:Pfft. by falcon5768 · · Score: 1
      You obviously never battled god then, which are lvl 70+ mobs or done Dynamis. You do NOT need the best gear, you need GOOD gear and not a Yukata at lvl 50, but you do not need the best gear and I know many a player who doesnt own a Scorp Harness. or Optical hat and still does fine as do I since as a Mnk our AF armor unlike most jobs is endgame armor. I have Snipers, but those until recently where somewhat easy to come by and there are plenty of armor that gives a ACC bonus lvl 50+ to the point you cna get around snipers... unless your a DRK.

      The Server issues where as a result of a routing error between Opimum Onlines main routing stations, and a secondary IP they use and had NOTHING to do with SE as was stated numerous times by them and by OO. They routing error 6 months back was due to Comcast and also not SE, though that one was less sever.

      and Actually xp cap is now 350, and if your seeing 150 - 200 a mob, your in a sucky party cause at lvl 25 I was able to hit 300 on chain 6... Chaining is the key on xp and high lvl partys will hit chain 8 on a normal basis.

      EQ2 is a crashfest... every beta tester out there has said it is NOT ready for release at all, but it will be anyway, much like how EQ was pushed out the door unfinished as was SWG. WoW has its own set of problems, but unlike SoE they are working on it... but also unlike FFXI you cant play with people across the world so while its great in theory, its little more than Diablo with a warcraft cover. I have yet to see any of the storyline though.

      And hoesntly there is no TAB problem... I run it on both a PS2 and a PC and havent had a crash once except for one of the CoP bugs which I knew about but did for fun anyway. Now for bugs there ARE, there is still the airship bug where you can fall off it in the PC version, there is the bug involving the fish after CoP showing some stats for the siingly caught ones. but there is no real gameplay bugs, on the PC or the PS2.

      Sounds to me you had some sour grapes and just decided to rag on FFXI cause you couldnt hack the party style gamepplay and need to actually fill in the multi, in multi player

      --

      "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

    6. Re:Pfft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously never battled god then, which are lvl 70+ mobs or done Dynamis.

      Yeah, no shit, Sherlock. That 326,000 XP figure I gave with absolutely nothing else to do during that time along with what is universily acknowledged as the worlds worst expansion pack caused me to quit half-way to level 61. Fuck level 70 and fuck the end game content.

      I have never, ever been in a party that managed to get up to XP chain 8. XP chain 5 was iffy. This is because I always wound up with people who didn't have absolutely completely 100% the best gear. So they would miss. A lot. (Worse was the massive selection of RDM/BLMs who wondered why with all their +INT gear they never landed debuffs. For non-FFXI players, they should have been using +MND gear, and been RDM/WHM, although that last part is probably meaningless. Although honestly, if you don't play FFXI and are reading this stale thread, you need to get out more.)

      I didn't want to get into game play mechanics too much, since I figured people reading this thread might, maybe, possibly, not play FFXI and instead be interested in Everquest.

      Seriously, you need to spend some time on FFXI boards. Tons of people have this tab problem. When you try to tab off targets (think mining or harvesting) the game crashes. I've never found any solution. The geniuses at Square-Enix suggested that I try connecting directly to the Internet and disable the firewall. Yeah, that'll fix it.

    7. Re:Pfft. by doubleyewdee · · Score: 1

      Please cite a reference for this mythical 'tab' bug. I hammer my tab key constantly in ffxi, and have since I bought the game. It has never, ever, ever crashed on me.

      In fact, ffxi has *never* crashed on me. Once. The game is rock solid.

      As far as 'the level grind'.. your example of 326k xp for 60-70, at about 200xp/mob (which is about right, with a decent party) is roughly 1,600 kills. Average five minutes a kill and it will take you about 140 hours of leveling to get that far. Okay, yeah, that's a lot. But you're also pretty much in the endgame too. If you level for about two hours a day (roughly) then you will make those levels in about two and a half months of play.

      That doesn't seem so bad to me. And in a good party you're probably chaining for 300+xp every fight, not 200. You can chain up to 380xp/mob or something, so those numbers drop. Square changed the numbers to make leveling past 50 easier, in fact.

      As far as this equipment myth, it's just that. I've been in plenty of post-50 parties with people who had what can only be called average gear. They hit fine. I play BRD, and other than one item I have spent virtually no gil on my equipment, my songs are still sticking just fine. The "MUST HAVE LEET EQ" syndrome is a holdover from jerks playing EQ and Diablo who need to feel good about the fact that they play an MMO for 12 hours a day instead of getting out, and so rag on anyone who isn't holding 2x Snipers, Emp pin, rabbit charm, etc. It's total bullshit. Your intelligence as a player will make or break a battle far more often than that extra +5acc or whatever.

      --


      you can take the road that takes you to the stars...
    8. Re:Pfft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I play BRD, and other than one item I have spent virtually no gil on my equipment, my songs are still sticking just fine.

      Yeah, no shit, of course your songs stick fine, you're buffing your own party members and allies don't resist. Not to mention that a bard is about the only job that call allow people without exceptional gear to hit.

      Since you've obviously never played the end game without a bard... well, let's just say that I could care less about your opinion on uber gear, given that bards lessen that requirement.

      Of course, there's only about 0.2 bards online for any given level, and due to Square's ingenious design, you can't ever hope to party without people who aren't exactly your level. So those types of parties don't form that often.

    9. Re:Pfft. by doubleyewdee · · Score: 1

      My songs stick fine on the mobs too. I can lullaby an IT mob at least nine times out of ten *without* signa on. On the rare occasions where I miss, horde lullaby is a good backup.

      Regardless, if my songs are making the difference for all the people I party with who don't have super gear then eating food will do the same. There's plenty of food that will give +atk, +acc, etc, often in big numbers, and a lot of it isn't even expensive.

      Still, others in my linkshell around my level or higher have said that super gear is not a requirement, and that they'd rather have someone who plays well and 10% more than someone who plays poorly but hits that extra 10%. I think you're severely overstating the problem. Stuff like kraken clubs, vermillion cloaks, etc is vanity gear. Stuff people buy because they've got that kind of money. It's not required.

      As far as BRD rarity.. I can see why. When I play BRD I actually have to pay attention to the whole battle. It seems like a lot of people who want to level don't want to think very hard or make tough decisions, and so they play jobs that are fairly easy and at worst require twitch reactions. BRD requires a lot of timing and finesse and positioning, and that's what makes it fun for me. I think you don't and won't see a lot of BRDs because it is in fact a tough job to play and people don't want that. It has no barrier to entry (quest actually makes you money, and the gear costs next to nothing, same with the spells) so that's definitely not a factor.

      --


      you can take the road that takes you to the stars...
  40. Re:Firefox 1.0? by j.blechert · · Score: 1

    Re:Firefox 1.0? (Score:2) by Lehk228 (705449) on Tuesday November 09, @12:50AM (#10761048) no it's november 8th, you probably have the same crappy watch i have that doesn't do months correctly. absolutely...

  41. As a beta taster by lobsterGun · · Score: 4, Funny

    I have to say that this game just isn't ready for prime time.

    I found the CD to be dry and tasteless. There wasn't even any salt on it. If Sony is going to ship CDs that are so completely devoid of flavour they should at least ship it with a nice salsa or a cheese sauce.

    And one other thing. I serious doubt that CD was biodegradeable. Don't ask me how I know. I'd rather not talk about it.

  42. Everquest by dmf415 · · Score: 0

    Everquest aka Evercrack

  43. Heather G. Interview by llZENll · · Score: 2

    uh ya like totally cool, NOT!

    Did anyone else waste 10 seconds of their life and read that sorry misuse of internet bandwidth? I was expecting at least one good question or answer, Heather reads like a 10 year old girl, GameSpy shouldn't of posted that tripe.

    1. Re:Heather G. Interview by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      That's not a troll - I read the interview and agree with the parent. Graham just comes across as totally uninterested in the game. It's just an interview for the sake of a famous name - and possibly, famous body.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    2. Re:Heather G. Interview by llZENll · · Score: 1

      I think I got trolled because of my first sentance, I think anyone who actually read the interview would agree with us, especially the crowd that frequents /.

    3. Re:Heather G. Interview by Reapy · · Score: 1

      I agree. I winced several times reading that review. On top of her answers, which appeared like she didn't even want to be there, the interviewers questions were pretty cappy all in themselves. But I guess it's hard to interview someone who doesn't really care. They didn't even put a screen shot of the character she was voice acting for.

      But yeah, article was definatly a fluff piece looking for some clicks from the name and images.

  44. Re:Firefox 1.0? by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

    i'm pretty sure mozilla is based in the US

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  45. What gives...? by standing_still · · Score: 2, Funny

    "...Though it's being drowned out by the Halo 2 news, Everquest 2 officially launches today...."

    Personally, Halo 2 doesn't excite me at all -- There are already too many 1st person shooter games out there, and not enough true RPGs.

    I remember playing EverQuest back when it use to be called Dragon Warrior -- the memories. I even managed to download copies of the versions only released in Japan, and Emulate them on my PC with a translator.

    PS: EverQuest 2? EverQuest 2 was released in Japan for the SNES a long time ago -- What gives?

    1. Re:What gives...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're retarded.

    2. Re:What gives...? by dr+bacardi · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think you have your games pretty seriously mixed up... Dragon Warrior is *not* EQ. EQ[12] is a massively multiplayer game, and has never run on anything other than a PC. There is a spinoff for the PS2... but thats another story.

    3. Re:What gives...? by ProppaT · · Score: 1

      #1 - You're thinking Dragon Quest, not EverQuest. #2 - It's still called Dragon Warrior in the US, never changed. #3 - Dragon Quest 2 was on the NES, not the SNES you fool! :) #4 - How did this get modded insightful? Absolute best case scenario this should be marked as funny just in case this is an attempt as sarcasim #5 - Look out for Dragon Warrior VIII for the PS2 late next year, it's going to be great! Oh man, I can already see the lost Karma and troll rating...

      --
      Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
  46. What is game play like? by AstroDrabb · · Score: 1

    I have never played EverQuest. However, I am an old-school RPG fan. I really miss the old D&D games like Secrets of the Silver Blade. The graphics were bad, but the game play and story were great. Most of the modern day "RPG" are not even close to being a real "RPG", they are just click-a-thons. Does EverQuest allow for turn based combat so you can plan your attacks, or is it just another click-a-thon? I would love to play a modern-day RPG that was not all about online gaming and clicking-as-fast-as-you-can.

    --
    If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
    it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
    1. Re:What is game play like? by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      EQ *invented* click spam games, i think they actually wrote it on contract with mouse manufacturers to increase demand for replacements after they wear out.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    2. Re:What is game play like? by deanj · · Score: 1

      It's not a click-a-thon, but you can't plan battle tactics per turn either.

      I'd suggest trying it out anyway. It's a great game.

    3. Re:What is game play like? by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 1

      EQ *invented* click spam games,

      Not hardly. Compared to UO, EQ is a breeze. It's no were near Diablo/Diablo 2, or Dungeon Siege.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
    4. Re:What is game play like? by transiit · · Score: 1

      I, too, have never played EverQuest. On that note, offtopic, here we come....

      However, I do find myself interested in the mechanics of gameplay. I can't say that I'm as much a fan of the Fantasy genre, but that my heart really lies with Wasteland. Darn good game.

      But I won't call it the be-all/end-all for gameplay, though. I've found turn-based combat can be as much of a chore if you're grinding through repetitive enemies. It's a fine balance getting enough strategy in there to really think about your next decision without getting too bogged down in detail. I'd rather not hold down A)ttack, nor suffer the pains of "Hm, a +1FP,-1MP blizzard attack might be effective against this stone golem, but I think a +1IP,+2FP,-3HP will be the better choice if I can match it with a -1XP,+2RP,+1QP counter-attack from my other player in the next round"

      One of my favorite combat systems to date was in Parasite Eve for the PSX. You got a nice little dome for the range of an attack, and even when you were still waiting for your next round to recharge, you could still move around and dodge some attacks. Too bad I never got through the 100 floors of mazes (all twisty and turning) to get to the final super ultimate boss. When I get around to replaying that one (it is my way), I think I'll stop with the superficial ending.

      I think the bigger threat to modern-day RPGs is the MPOG (MMPOG is a dumb acronym. You see a few go under for lack of interest, and there can't be anything inherently "massive" about them.) Here the basic problem: Most people won't really role-play. If you do, you'll either get mocked or the experience will get ruined by the first kid that wanders in with "OMG! What R U wearing? WTF? ABC. 123. U and me."

      I'd rather live with the relatively short lives of a single-player game. I avoid the monthly fee, and even short playtimes (what's the current metric? 40 hours?) are still better than hour spirts of quality buried in every six hours of crap.

      -transiit

    5. Re:What is game play like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, off to console land you go then. It's nice being a couch potato ^_^

    6. Re:What is game play like? by armentage · · Score: 1

      EQ & EQ2 are group based real-time combat. There are tons of different strategies and tactics you need to know to succeed at EQ1. Fights have to start a certain way. Spells need to be cast in the right order. Melee players need to setup them selves up properly to avoid dying before hate is locked in on the tank. Healers need to make sure they take care of other support casters during critical lock-down time. However, once you get the mob locked down, then its just a matter of repeatedly attacking, healing, and nuking, till the mob is dead. EQ2 adds to this by having special "combo" attacks, where you and the other members of your party must execute sequences of attacks to do extra damage or enfeeble an enemy significantly, improving your game play. These combos are complicated and vary based on the make up of your party. You need to time and plan your actions well, so your whole party will be ready to execute the attack together.

  47. Obligatory by myrdred · · Score: 1, Funny

    Link to ClicheQuest! The best in MMORPG satire!

  48. other misuse of time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    www.blademistress.com

  49. Amusing. by DeathByDuke · · Score: 0

    Let Evercrack Round 2 begin.

  50. Re:Firefox 1.0? by Strenoth · · Score: 1

    according to my Computer, CD-alarm clock, CD/Radio, and Cel phone (hey, who needs a watch?), it's Monday, 08 November 2004. And 5pm. Come crying to us in about.. mm, 15 hours. that'll be 8 am pacific time.

    --

    "It takes a very long time to count to 2 in binary." ~'Fourlegged'

  51. But WoW isn't great - EQ2 is more fun by cbreaker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I was in EQ2 Beta, and I've been in WoW beta for.. forever it seems.

    WoW is a much more polished game. Six months ago, WoW was more stable, playable, and finished then EQ2 was at the end of the beta this past Friday.

    However, I just couldn't get into WoW. I tried. I've played for many long nights and I still find the game lacking. Some of it has to do with the graphics; the towns are too cookie-cutter, the NPC's are fairly generic, and the overall graphics engine just doesn't come close to EQ2. Of course, it doesn't crash as much as EQ2, and it runs much better - EQ2 looks great but the game engine is slow.

    I roamed around. I found some quests and did them. I grouped with some people, explored around. Killed a few more mobs. Killed a few more.

    With EQ2 you're immediately confronted with small quests, things to do, and places to see. The game puts you on the track from the beginning. In WoW, you'd dumped off in town and that's that. Both approaches have merit, but the EQ2 approach of pulling you into the game from the start seems more immersive.

    EQ2 is very similar to EQ. Don't let anyone try to say otherwise. It's really almost exactly the same when it comes to a LOT of things. Group dynamics are identical, the classes are the same although there's this illusion that they are very different from EQ. But this doesn't signify a bad thing - EQ2 expands on EQ'2 successful grouping tactics and makes each class more valuable to the group then they were before with new special abilities, buffs, and offensive capabilities.

    Unfortunately, I do believe they spent too much time trying to avoid all the problems in EQ. While I've always thought that Complete Heal was a mistake and I'm glad to see it gone, but they've really gone far and wide to stop twinking, muling, power leveling, and buffing non-grouped players. Fortunately though it doesn't get too much in the way of normal gameplay, but it is there.

    Then there's the age group thing. WoW has and will attract a much younger crowd. If you like that, then it's perfect for you. But if you like an older crowd, you'll probably find it in EQ2. There's a ton of folks that have played EQ for years, and that generally means they've grown up a bit. The average EQ player is in the mid-20's or older. The biggest initial group of people to play EQ2 will be many of these same players. This isn't to say that there's not a fair share of 13 year old kiddies in EQ, but from what I've seen it's a lot less then WoW.

    EQ2 isn't ready for release, but they will release it anyways. It's not like $50 is a huge investment, and neither is the monthly fee for a few months to decide whether you wish to continue to play it or not. It will be "ready" enough to play the game and do 95% of the things there is to do. I don't like it, but it's the way things go with computer games sometimes. You have a choice of whether you want to play now, or in four months when many of the bugs will be fixed.

    We've all spent a lot more then that on completely stupid crap, so I don't see why one can't try both games and decide which they like more for themselves.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    1. Re:But WoW isn't great - EQ2 is more fun by Lucky+Tony · · Score: 1

      There are many people who have been playing Warcraft for 10 years. Much longer than they've been playing EQ.

    2. Re:But WoW isn't great - EQ2 is more fun by Selfbain · · Score: 1

      Well for starters in WoW you're put in a place with a whole pile of quests to start. You even have a note in your inventory telling you who to talk to. Secondly, EQ2 will not attract all of the seasoned gamers you think it will. A lot of the high end guilds are heading over to WoW (including the high end guild .)

      --
      Well, it has never been successfully tested.
    3. Re:But WoW isn't great - EQ2 is more fun by Shihar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      EQ2 is very similar to EQ.

      That is by far the best review I have heard. It cuts the fore play and gets down to the heart of it. Though, you could have made it even easier and simply said GRIND.

      MMORPGs have been absolutely disgusting in how they utterly ignore the potential that exists. Every single MMORPG, yes, even WoW, relies on the never ending quest to level up. I personally can't wait for the day when someone makes a serious MMORPG that doesn't subsist off people being obsessive and compulsive. I fucking hate leveling and practicing skills. The day they cut out these things is the day that MMORPGs open up to a massive new market of no OCD gamers.

    4. Re:But WoW isn't great - EQ2 is more fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was my immediate thought on reading that. Admittedly, I only played for 3 days during the stress test and started both my chars in the same town, but when I started off I was standing in front of a guy with a yellow "?" over his head ready to give me a quest. There was also an item in my backpack that when activated gave me a quest to find my class trainer. On the way there were about 4-5 more quest givers to get some equipment. One of those quests had you touring the newbie zone while annother sent you on a trip to the first village with slightly higher level mobs. From there, it branched out and quests went in several directions encouraging you to explore the area. Once you leveled up enough, you were high enough level to get a quest pointing to the next area down the line, and the idea was that the next area would do the same. In my mind, this was very well done and felt like a fairly natural progression through quests and char levels, and I got a signifigant percentage of my experience in leveling up my char in the form of quest xp. (I've heard hunters complaining that their pets occasionally don't catch up to them in levels since quest xp isn't given to pets, and since pets gain levels about 3-4X faster than chars, that means they were getting more than 2/3 to 3/4 of their xp from quests instead of grinding.)

      Now, admittedly, this is just one of the starting locations, and I'd easily believe that the grandparent poster started their chars elsewhere where the quests weren't in yet, but the devs were trying to do this with all the starting locations and low to mid level zones, and I'd guess that they were done with that and the grandparent post just hasn't started a new char recently.

      Of course, I do have one gripe which I hope they fix before release. The scripted griffin rides (basicly like busses from one place to annother) have to be discovered outside of capital cities, so you can't use them until you've been there. Unfortunately, the only easy route between continents (i.e. between the elves and the rest of the alliance) is in an area that has level 20ish critters and is in a contested area so you can be attacked by horde chars. It took my poor level 12 dwarf hours and several deaths to NPCs and PCs to get through that zone to the harbor so that he could use the boat to get to and from his friend who was in night elf territory. The elves going the other way, however, can get off the ship (conveniently located for them, no dangerous trip required), visit the griffin master, and get quick transport to their friends in easier zones. That one griffin ride should be automaticly available once you get to the dwarven home city, to lower the pain and agony of travelling to the elves for those who want to play with friends.

    5. Re:But WoW isn't great - EQ2 is more fun by jaquesparrow · · Score: 1

      Try www.puzzlepirates.com There is a free trial. Try it, you will be pleasantly surprised.

    6. Re:But WoW isn't great - EQ2 is more fun by LarsWestergren · · Score: 1

      I haven't tried it myself, but it sounds like A Tale In the Desert 2 is what you might be looking for.

      It doesn't have combat, it relies on cooperation to get things done. Basically it is about improving yourself and society. Low level "tests" might be learning how to make bricks, straw, constructing simple artworks and so on. Higher level tests often include coordinating lower level players in helping you do something (say, have a dancing cermony celebrating the rising sun and all 20 dancers have to act in character, or have a couple of hundred people help you build a pyramid).

      This is a game where you can go and open the door without risking the death of your character. The first one was NOT a never ending story. It had a clear beginning, middle and end, and a few players who were "winners".

      Also, players could vote to change an amazing number of things.

      The reviews for the first game were very positive, and the second one looks even better.

      And guess what, there are even Linux clients!

      This is a game I wish more people had heard of, you can download the demo for Linux or Windows today.

      --

      Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die

    7. Re:But WoW isn't great - EQ2 is more fun by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 1

      Actually, if Fires of Heaven is headed to WoW rather than EQ2, I consider that a point against WoW. The kind of elitist zone controlling ueberguilds like FoH are exactly what I do NOT ever want to deal with in a game again.

      Obviously there will be some in EQ2, but if FoH will be elsewhere, it will be a much more pleasant environment.

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    8. Re:But WoW isn't great - EQ2 is more fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called Planetside. Have fun!

  52. it sux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    move along

  53. I spent the $5 for the preorder... by ChozSun · · Score: 1

    ... but after reading all the reviews and observations of EQ2, I seriously thinking that I may have lost that 5 bucks.

    The more and more I read, it reminds me of all the horrors of MMORPGs: no player driven stories, no player driven conflicts, no human DMs controlling and driving the world. No control whatsoever.

    MMORPGs are nothing more the a competition to see who can get to the top level the fastest. If I want to compete online, I could play any sport or FPS game. I want RPGs for the story, plot and character development. Apparently that is too much to ask for.

    Why can MMORGPs be like PnP RPGs?

    --
    ChozSun
    ChozSun.com
    1. Re:I spent the $5 for the preorder... by zeno_2 · · Score: 1

      I remember buying my first MMORPG, Ultima Online, in the falltime of 1997 I believe it was. It was my first game I think i played online, and I was just amazed that all these people were playing the game with me.

      Back when UO first came out, they used to employ "Seers". These were guys who created a character and a setting and then roleplayed that character. They would get normal players to come help him do whatever he had setup. The biggest one I was involved with, dealt with 4 staves of the elements. My characters name was Cloud, and after a couple months of helping out this Seer, he had a big event, in which he gave me the Staff of Air to hold for this ceremony. After all this took place, they took the staff that I held, and put it on display at the Moonglow museum, and when you clicked on it, it had my name on it, somethin like "Staff of Air held by Cloud in the staff ritual".

      I don't think they do anything like that now, but I tell ya, it was a blast doing all that stuff. Since then i've played a lot of MMORPGs, but none have come close to how much fun that was back in the day.

    2. Re:I spent the $5 for the preorder... by will_die · · Score: 1

      Don't take most of the reviews with any grain of salt.
      The "must have PvP" crowd has decided that EQ2 should be treated like dog sh*t and have decided to do a serious attack on it. It is rather funny to read some of the prime PvP boards and read all the stuff they say to put in thier messages so that they have a consistant read.

  54. Another bullet in the chest of the term "RPG" by Dracos · · Score: 1

    That games like Evercrack are called RPG's is simply a misnomer, unless the R stands for "roll" or "rand()". These games are devoid of the concept of "Role".

    1. Re:Another bullet in the chest of the term "RPG" by VanillaBabies · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I'm pretty sure the "role" from Role Playing Game falls under one of the following:
      role

      n 1: the actions and activities assigned to or required or expected of a person or group; "the function of a teacher"; "the government must do its part"; "play its role" [syn: function, office, part]

      2: an actor's portrayal of someone in a play; "she played the part of Desdemona" [syn: character, theatrical role, part, persona]

      3: what something is used for; "the function of an auger is to bore holes"; "ballet is beautiful but what use is it?" [syn: function, purpose, use]

      4: normal or customary activity of a person in a particular social setting; "what is your role on the team?"

  55. Christmas! In November! by Misch · · Score: 4, Funny

    Everquest 2, Halo 2, Firefox 1.0.... it's like christmas a month and a half early!

    --

    --You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
  56. Re:AMAZON HAS IT!! by kasek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    you should be ashamed of yourself. the parent post is simply trying to drive people to amazon using his referall ID to earn money from any potential sales.

    use the following instead if you don't wanna halp out this creep:
    Everquest II DVD
    Everquest II Collectors Edition
    Game Guide

  57. In a world with DOOM 3 and Halflife 2... by Lethyos · · Score: 1

    ...it just seems like most of these other games out there are visually so unappealing and flat. I'm used to real shadows, bump-maps, and dynamic lighting everywhere. I check out those screenshots and I think I've been spoiled. Reality can't be suspended by such lack-luster sights anymore.

    --
    Why bother.
    1. Re:In a world with DOOM 3 and Halflife 2... by Zorilla · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why people spend $15 a month to work 40 hours a week on a treadmill. Some of us prefer traditional video gaming, and I think MMORPGs are actually causing harm to the video game culture I used to be a part of. Now I have to deal with people going around saying, "bla bla bastard sword bla DAoC, bla bla bla FFXI level 23 bla bla". Do these guys even step back and have a reality check to see if they're having fun? That's something I have to ask myself every few minutes when playing a game, and because of this I often I see right through holes in gameplay.

      The varitety in other types of games is hurt because of this. It seems there are only two types of first-person shooters left. Military FPSs (70%) and those starring Cam Clarke's voice (other 30%: Doom 3, Painkiller, Far Cry, etc.)

      --

      It would be cool if it didn't suck.
  58. Boy am I sorry I ordered from Sony!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I ordered two copies of the Collector's Edition (one for me, one for spouse) from Sony at $90 a pop and paid for next day delivery.

    Not only will I be getting it after the folks at EB Games (which is okay), but I probably won't be getting it tomorrow, either. And probably not even Wednesday. As far as I can tell, Sony haven't shipped it yet. All they can offer me is an email address to apply for a refund on the shipping charges.

    What a nice way to treat your loyal customer base, Sony!

    I'd like to cancel the order right now, but they won't let me.

    1. Re:Boy am I sorry I ordered from Sony!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Talk to the better business bureau about it.

    2. Re:Boy am I sorry I ordered from Sony!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cancel, they havent' shipped yet. If they say you can't cancel tell them you will have the credit card company charge it back and refuse delivery of the package when it arrives. They would be morons to not cancel it then.

    3. Re:Boy am I sorry I ordered from Sony!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Believe me, I shall, if Sony won't deal with my complaint on its own.

  59. Re:AMAZON HAS IT!! by macdaddy · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Sure. Why not? Everyone else does, or are you new here? By the looks of your UID it appears you are. Oh, and I've already ordered the game via my link. I might as well since I've been following the status of the game for months now and am personally excited it's out. So take your creep comment and troll moderation over to someone that deserves it.

  60. Another Beta Tester speaks out..... by Taliseian · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've had a chance to play both EQ2 and WoW.

    IMHO EQ2, while it still has some bugs in it, is a good overall game.

    SoE made alot of interesting decisions this time around.

    First off, the graphic engine is designed to be flexible and able to be upgraded as time and new developments in video come along. They say that EQ2 will still look top of the line in five years.

    Secondly, the game itself is supposed to be able to scale up to Level 200 (only the first 50 levels are in now, and more will be added as expansions are made). This gives them a chance to really expand the mobs, gear, and abilities if they really have thought that far out. EQLive has just reached Level 70 with its latest expanion "Omens of War", and it just seems like a serious case of mudflation in the type and amount of items that are coming off of "yard trash" (ie the common mobs that spawn all over the zone).

    Every Online Game can and should be considered a "Paid Beta", since from Day One they will be patching, fixing exploits (no team of beta testers, even fanbois, will find every exploit -- they will come), adding new features and features that should of really been there at launch but were put on the back burner, and more content (quests, mobs, zones, etc) which may or may not break code somewhere else and will need even more patching.

    EQ2 is not perfect, but I'm looking forward to their overall story arc.

    When I had a chance to beta test WoW, I was impressed with what Blizzard has done. I was never a real-time strat game fan, but I have played some Warcraft and I enjoyed Diablo I and II. I know that Blizzard can write a good story and does have a long history of good games as well as support (both patches and new content) that is second to none outside of the Online Game Industry.

    WoW has gone a completely different way with its graphics. It went for more of a cartoony look than EQ2, and it is a freshing change of pace. The graphics are sharp and clean as well as being able to perform well on older machines.

    The play is just what you would expect from any MMORPG -- make character, get quests (can be optional), fight mobs, loot mobs, get more powerful. But WoW makes it alot easier to find out who has quests for you -- there is a glowing question mark above their heads. I find it nice to be able to see who has quests as compared to having to talk to every NPC in the zone to find them.

    Both games will appeal to a different crowd. To those who are long time fans of Warcraft, while WoW may not scratch the itch of RTS'ing, it will keep them in the story line and I can see tie-ins to new Warcraft games easily coming out of WoW. EQ2 has alot more depth in my opinion. It was made for those who really want to explore a world and delve deeper into its mysteries. I really feel that it was designed for the long haul and will not really come into its own until further down the road when the major story arcs start to play out. But even until then it will be an interesting experience.

    T

    1. Re:Another Beta Tester speaks out..... by -noefordeg- · · Score: 1

      What about playerkilling?!
      Are there anything even remotely resembles 'oldschool' UO or the Asheron's Call Darktide server?

      It was actually bad to get hooked on AC because of the "one of it's kind" type of game. Now every other mmorpg look so boring and ordinary that I wouldn't play them even if I got paid to. :-/

    2. Re:Another Beta Tester speaks out..... by Taliseian · · Score: 1

      At launch, EQ2 doesn't have any PvP. The Devs have said that later on there will be PvP and it will be "different".

      They haven't said anything at all about how "different" it will be.

      T

  61. And consider what Sony thinks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sony is so terrified of World of Warcraft that it thinks the only way it's going to succeed is to push the game out just like it (OK, Verant) did with original EQ to "hook 'em young". If Sony were confident in its ability to compete with WoW, it would not have jumped the gun like this. So, Blizzard, take the compliment for what it's worth: Sony knows WoW is going to kick EQ2's ass.

  62. It's not the same old grind. by cbreaker · · Score: 1

    Ohh, but it's not true.

    While there's the standard exp bar in EQ2, you don't get experience like you do in EQ.

    In EQ, you basically sit in a corner, and wait for the tank to pull a mob, you kill it, repeat. Kill mobs over and over and over and over.

    EQ2 on the other hand has two ways to get experience.

    One, obviously, is killing monsters. But it's not the same. EQ2 mobs won't chase you forever, a tank can't pull everything to the group. If you run from a mob too long you also break the encounter, so no exp can be gained. What ends up happening is the group is forced to actually explore zones, move in, go deep. A lot of people aren't comfortable with it; they like the EQ style of very easy (but very long and boring) exp. I like dungeon crawls, and EQ2 really pushes you into doing them. Respawn is pretty quick and you gotta keep moving. It's actually pretty fun, and all the experience zones I've been to have a bunch of little side things, quests, NPC's, etc, spread througout the zone.

    The second way to get exp is to finish quests. While there's physical rewards such as money and items, exp is a big part. Quests are also colored according to level - the more difficult the quest the more experience you get.

    Even at level 25, which is half-way to the end, experience wasn't too slow. If you ONLY did quests, or ONLY did mob killing, it would be slower. But the game is designed to allow you to do both things at the same time, so it's really not the same grind you're used to in EQ.

    Also, "con" levels are pretty restrictive. At level 22, a level 18 mob is a "no exp" mob. I'm sure the gap widens in the higher levels, but probably not too much. This promotes further exploration into the game, instead of hanging around to get the easy exp.

    I won't say there's NO level grinding, but it's a lot smoother. And I'm not exactly sure what game could exist without some sort of leveling system. Obviously, everyone can't start out at "Master" levels so I really don't see an alternative. And, you want to accomplish something when you play, and that means enhancing your character in the game, while doing quests and having fun with some acquaintences.

    There's a few other small things in EQ2 that tend to help out the casual players as well, but I'm not going to get into all of it right here.

    Without "leveling" in some way or form, the game becomes a very pretty chat room.

    About your comment about people being obsessive and compulsive, well, unfortunately I don't see any way around that besides limiting play time. There's always going to be the kids that play any game for 14 hours a day. That's a given. But they don't really affect me, I play at my own pace - they can do whatever they want and I don't obsess about THEM.

    EQ2 is NOT perfect and there's a ton of stuff that annoys me. But there will be those elements in every game, so you just have to decide what's really important in a game for you.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    1. Re:It's not the same old grind. by Shihar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The last guy said:
      Insert some boring technical details about tweaks to EQ's basic level for the sake of leveling gameplay here.

      Here is the problem with MMORPGs. They are currently about leveling. Period. They are the types of games where if you told someone that today your level will be frozen, they would quit their account on the spot. The entire point of the game is to get more levels. Obviously some people love this dumb crap and are more then happy to shell out 15 a month for it. Good for them. That said, the market for this kind of OCD game play is limited. You will never get me to play a game where the point of the game is to gain levels, get more spells and shits... so that you can gain more levels. That sounds like some sort of sick test you perform on rats, not humans. The fact that people can not conceive of a world without levels is utterly scary, and I hope that developers have equally as limited imaginations.

      How do you build a world without levels? Simple, build a world based upon player skill, and offer a variety of player skill sets to pick from. Hell, just make a list of player skills and make it so that the game has games to accommodate them.

      Twitch skills - Simple enough, make some combat based upon twitch skills. Acrobatic classes in particular would be very well suited for a 'twitchy' game play.

      Tactical skills - Make it so that magic or some other element of combat is based upon tactics. Creating a complex magic system would go a long way to do this. Imagine if when a mage casts, every spell they cast results in good and bad side effects for many other spells.

      Example: A mage starts by casting a spell that makes cold spells more likely to catastrophically fumble, and also has the side effect of making fire spells more powerful. He then starts to cast a fire spell that does damage to his opponent, but also leaves him weaker to cold spells. His opponent realizes what tactic is being used and so casts a spell that drastically delays the effect of fire spells from kicking in, giving him time to try and alter the effect into something more pleasant. Rinse and repeat. Instead of making it so that every spell is a boring +10 fire damage, all spells have massive draw backs. Two or three minutes of fighting like this and there could be a few dozen effects that both mages need to consider before spam casting at each other. They might even slow down, stop and think a little before casting. The game becomes far more tactical then just nuking the shit out of the other guy as fast as possible.

      Puzzle Skills - Make the crafting system based on something like puzzle pirates or some other type of puzzle.

      Social Skills - Create a complex political and leadership system. Throw in some sulk and dagger stuff in to give the twitch and tactical people some fun.

      Strategic Skills - Have it so that leaders need to make complex overall decisions about resources and strategic defense and fighting. A person might rise through the social ranks to gain some grand strategic position. Hell, offer lower level strategic positions so that one guy can operate a local mine or what not. Make it so that there is actual depth to decisions, like a financial sim. Let people create trade guilds or other organizations of that nature.

      Role playing skills - Throw the role players a bone and let them participate in a moderate in character senate or public debate.

      PvP - Give the PvP people an outlet. Have actual wars. No, not those stupid free for alls of WoW and DAoC. Make it so that people can form marching lines. Combine strategy, tactics, and good old fashion twitching once the lines break apart.

      Sneaking skills - Create a Thief life game to give the sneakers something to do.

      My point? Levels are far from needed. You could build an action oriented MMORPG with all the fillings of a normal MMORPG, and do it completely without boring as shit levels. It doesn't have to be ATID, it could be exciting in wa

    2. Re:It's not the same old grind. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try ultima online. no levels.

    3. Re:It's not the same old grind. by Reapy · · Score: 1

      Fucking thank you for that.

      Seriously. That's whave I've been saying all along. Rip the god damn levels out of a game.

      And for people who say "skill based" f that too, those are the same as levels.

      If I'll ever pick up an mmorpg again, it'll be in the form of something you mentioned above. Guild wars is reaching for something like that by the way, but I don't know if it's going to appeal to me at all.

      I saw a great pvp system in the mud Achaea. Basically they had a bunch of status effects and cures. Besides the usual I smash you technique, you could get a status lock on somebody and kill them. Basically you'd throw effects at them in such a way that they were unable to cure themselves. I never got into the game too much to know a good example, but it would be something like, you need to smoke x to cure a poison. So you first cast something that prevents them from smoking, then cast the poison, then cast something to prevent them from curing the thing that blocks smoking. So now they are poisoned and cant smoke and cant cure the non smoking effect and are basically f'ed.

      The skill comes from knowing the cures and curses backwards and forward. But then theres another level of being able throw the effects at your opponent in such a way that they can't prevent the lock, or you trick them and sneak a lock by them. That would be really interesting in a graphic setting.

      I would love to see an action mmorpg, but I don't think a massive game could be twitchy enough with lag issues. I think a game that focuses on smaller groups of 4 would be great. I'd love to actually dodge my character away from a swing and strike him while he is recovering, or block it with my shield while a companion sneaks around behind the monster. Things like that actualy played out in an action sequence would be great.

      But anyway, I'm glad someone has reconginzed that mmorpgs are flawed in that they'll always be a grind. I LOVE exploring new ones, because I love fantasy settings and fantasy architecture. But once all that's discovered, the game in itself is boring.

    4. Re:It's not the same old grind. by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      That's not true at all. EverQuest (the first) is not about levelling. Levelling is merely a very long, boring, inconvenient roadblock to the content. It's designed to teach you your role on a team (hence, role playing). It's WAY exaggerated and drawn out, I agree. Take the levelling out of EQ and you still have a viable game, just many never make it far enough to see that.

      Everquest is about 30-100 person collaborative raids against very hard NPC driven events. It's about growing that team as a group and moving on to even tougher challenges. In implementation growing doesn't mean levels, it means equipment and practice. It's more equivalent to creating a football team than creating a god-like character.

      Any complaint you have about the levelling component I agree with completely, you're dead on. This is why there's this eBay aftermarket for pre-built characters that even now is strong. The only reason this market exists and is successful, however, is precisely because levelling isn't the fun part of the game and no one wants to do it.

    5. Re:It's not the same old grind. by cbreaker · · Score: 1

      God damned, someone that actually makes sense.

      I prepared a response, but decided to post it to the parent post instead. Read it there if you would like.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    6. Re:It's not the same old grind. by cbreaker · · Score: 1

      Your post has some random thoughts on how to make a game "without levels" - we can all dream of the impossible just like him.

      The thing is, a lot of that stuff *IS* in these games. I consider leveling is a means to access game content. And you're right, it's not exactly fun, but I do see it as a necessary evil.

      What does he suggest people do to "climb the social ladder" without some sort of level system? How does he propose that people prepare for battle and actually perform well without leveling or raising skill levels?

      What's the difference between aquiring better armor or aquiring better spells through leveling? Both require you to kill monsters or do quests.

      How do you become a master artisin without some sort of tracking system for your progress?

      How are mages supposed to grow from apprentices to masters? Through using spells, right? How many spells do you need to cast, how many mob encounters do you need to defeat? Even if it were this amazing feat of logic and skill like you'd like to see? Wait, wouldn't that be like leveling?

      You can hide it all you want, but there's NO way to have a D&D type RPG without leveling whether you call it that or not. You can't give every skill to every newbie and expect to have any sort of longevity. I know I'd get sick of it real quick.

      Most of the people that bitch about leveling never made it to "the end." In EverQuest, the "end" was when you reached the last level and you joined a raiding guild. Raiding *IS* EverQuest, in my opinion. It takes a shit load of practice, skills, and strategy to defeat encounters in EQ. Every boss mob in Everquest is different (okay, almost every boss mob.) Luclin was a great expansion - you had to learn how to endure long battles when crazy spells were being shot at you, you had to learn how to control hordes of mobs, etc.

      PoP introduced boss mobs that could hit you so hard it was unbelievable. But working as a team, coordinating the attack, every boss in PoP is defeatable.

      If you put 72 newbies - even if they are nicely equipped ebays - in a raid in Everquest, no amount of practice would teach them to kill that mob. Through the level grinding of EQ, you've learned every in and out of your player class, your abilities, and your weaknesses. You've spent a long time with the character, and when it comes to a big raid, you know what you can offer. You know the game mechanics. That only comes with experience.

      You can bash the leveling all you want, but there's a reason it's there, and it's not just to slow you down - it's to prepare you for what's ahead.

      And, as a foot-note, all that social interacting stuff is great, but sometimes people just want to play the game, not engage in a government and deal with people on that level. We do that in our real lives all day long. And, most of the MMORPG's now a days include a lot of what you've mentioned already anyways.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    7. Re:It's not the same old grind. by Shihar · · Score: 1

      Come now, use some imagination. What is the point of content no one will ever see or appreciate? This might come as a surprise, but most people are either unwilling to put in the time to get to level 50 to go on a raid, or simply don't have the time. Eh, it is all well and good for games to exist to for the crack addicts to mindlessly get their fill, but the rest of the world wouldn't mind a game either.

      What's the difference between aquiring better armor or aquiring better spells through leveling? Both require you to kill monsters or do quests.

      Don't have better armor and the problem is handily solved. If combat is going to be skill based, why would you muddle up the equation by giving someone +100 armor of doom? You don't give the guys in CountStrike +1000 armor, so don't do it in a skill based game. Make armor different. Wear that nice light leather armor and be much quicker. Crawl into some plate mail and feel better protection, but be move slower and get fatigued quicker. Throw on some chain mail and get reasonable mobility and protection from piercing and slashing weapons, but also have absolutely no armor against crushing weapons like war hammers. Do the same for weapons. A 10 foot long pole arm is great for spearing a guy through the gut before he gets close to you or taking down a horse, but utterly worthless if the enemy slips past the tip of the spear and closes with a close range weapon. A dagger has no reach, but if you can get close, a slash across the throat is almost a sure kill.

      How do you get spells? Make it so that you just walk into any old mages library and you can collect and memorize 20 spells. Don't have a 'best' spell. Just make them all different and all with massive negative side affects. Maybe you have to hit up a few such mage libraries to get the perfect 20 spell load out. You seem to be under the confused impression that the game MUST require some sort of misery from the player before he or she can have a spell, and that there MUST be better spells and worse spells. You don't need these things.

      Don't analyze too deeply into what I say. This is shit plucked from my imagination after a few seconds of thought. There are certainly problems with my ideas that would need to be over come, but for the sake of game design, I sincerely hope that a few seconds of thinking on my part is not the final word imagination. If someone sat down to design an action oriented MMORPG with no levels, I imagine that with a couple more heads and more time then five minutes, they could do better.

      Finally, I think you crystallize my argument for me by actually describing a system that is 'levelless'.

      Most of the people that bitch about leveling never made it to "the end." In EverQuest, the "end" was when you reached the last level and you joined a raiding guild. Raiding *IS* EverQuest, in my opinion. It takes a shit load of practice, skills, and strategy to defeat encounters in EQ.

      When you get to the point where you are doing a raid in EQ, you have all but stopped level, and this is considered to be the fun part? You mean, the game that exists when you are no longer grinding is the best part of the game? The part of the game where it is not levels, but strategy and tactics? Hell, you describe a system where you don't need levels that is fun, and this is based off a game that wasn't balanced to be level less to begin with! And the reason why not everyone can enjoy this?

      in a raid in Everquest, no amount of practice would teach them to kill that mob...Through the level grinding of EQ... You know the game mechanics. That only comes with experience.

      You are absolutely right in that an EBayed character in EQ is doomed. What you utterly ignore is the fact that Everquest was designed from the ground up to built upon progressive levels. An EBay character is doomed because there is no 'easing in'. The only thing an EBay character can do that is worth while is go fight the big fish, and without experie

    8. Re:It's not the same old grind. by trevick · · Score: 1

      Raising skills is the same thing as raising levels; skill-based systems simply provide more levels to raise.

      Raising skills/levels is a game mechanic that is intended to provide a sense of progress. This works in PnP RPGs. This works in solo CRPGs. It can work somewhat in PvE games since it basically acts as a restriction to access to some content in the game (unfortunately, too many MMO designers seem to make levelling the sole content.)

      Where levelling really fails is in PvP MMOs.

      If I'm level 25 and you're level 50, you will win. Not because you have more skills, and not because you are better; you win simply because you spent more TIME on your toon. A battlefield where the victor is the side whose members have the most free time isn't a very compelling one.

      Fortunately, some newer PvP MMOs are moving away from the levelling mechanic.

      For example, Vendetta Online is a space-based MMO; as you level you gain access to new weapons and ships. However, combat is twitch-based, so even with the newbie starter ship, you can defeat high-level players if you play better than they do.

      Guild Wars promises to make 'higher-level' spells/skills 'more specialized' rather than simply "more powerful". This puts an element of skill in the game that is completely absent in Lineage 2 and other PVP MMORPGs.

      Hopefully, other game designers will start incorporating alternative content to levelling in their MMORPGs as well.

    9. Re:It's not the same old grind. by cbreaker · · Score: 1

      While I enjoy a good debate, you summed up your argument right here:

      "This might come as a surprise, but most people are either unwilling to put in the time to get to level 50 to go on a raid, or simply don't have the time. Eh, it is all well and good for games to exist to for the crack addicts to mindlessly get their fill, but the rest of the world wouldn't mind a game either."

      You're dead wrong about most people being unwilling to spend the time to level up. I played EQ for well over a year before I became level 60, when 60 was the cap. I could have don it a lot faster, but I played at my own pace and I had a hell of a lot of fun doing it. There were level 60 people in the game when I started the game and it didn't bother me one bit where you seem to bothered by that quite a bit.

      And who's to say MMORPG's *should* be for everyone? Why does everything have to work for everyone all the time? The current genre of these games is loosely based on Dungeons and Dragons, and D&D was about levels too.

      You keep saying that just because there are levels, it's "mindless" and there's nothing further from the truth in EQ. While some people prefer the power-level route where they sit in a corner an exp all day long, it's not something you have to do to advance in the game. Simply by exploring the world, adventuring deep into dungeons, etc - you will level up. This has been greatly enhanced in EQ2.

      What you seem to want is a game where you don't have to work at it to play. You want everyone to be equal at any time no matter what. This might work in some smaller social environments (or in a game like There) but when you look at the huge range of players in a typical MMORPG it becomes increasingly more difficult. Seasoned players want to play with other seasoned players, not "screw up the encounter" newbies. An area for high level characters is great for high level characters because newbies can't wreck your fun. The list is endless with problems associated with "everyone can do 100% of the content 100% of the time."

      Plus, where does the feeling of progression fit into your rules? People want to feel like they've progressed in the game, that their efforts and skills have allowed them access to content in the game that the mere newbie cannot. I don't see anything wrong with this.

      "You mean, the game that exists when you are no longer grinding is the best part of the game? The part of the game where it is not levels, but strategy and tactics? Hell, you describe a system where you don't need levels that is fun, and this is based off a game that wasn't balanced to be level less to begin with! And the reason why not everyone can enjoy this?"

      It is the best part of the game, IMO indeed. But that doesn't mean that the stuff below the top level is NOT fun. You harp on the leveling thing but there's a shit load of fun to be had at the lower levels. Just because you need to work at the game more before the "uber high end" encounters are available to you doesn't mean that there's not an extremely entertaining game to play in the meantime.

      And no, it's not level-less. There's sub-skills that help a lot in Raid encounters. There's equipment and other magical items that also help a lot. Not to mention, your guild must work to progress further into the game by means of defeating various boss monsters. To you, these are obviously just more levels and you hate levels so much you probably don't celebrate your own birthday.

      "The solution to this? Build a game where the content varies. When someone first starts in a game with no levels, they might very well go and stomp rats or what not to get the hang of things. A year later, with the same character and the only difference being actual player skills, they might go with a group of friends to stomp dragons."

      I hightly doubt any player would actually PLAY a game like that for a year. But if they did, they would still be swarmed by newbies screwing up their encounters, lying abo

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    10. Re:It's not the same old grind. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are an idiot, without some kind of leveling or reward system there is no point to this kind of game. If you don't like leveling go play CS or a FPS where it is all skill.

      I'll say it again so it sinks in, YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

  63. bleah by cbreaker · · Score: 1

    I'm so suck of Furor and his cronies making so much noise that people believe their propaghanda.

    Just because some of the Fires of Heavon people are WoW fanboys, doesn't mean they represent the majority of EQ players. Being still fairly involved with many of the end game players of my EQ server, I think it's quite the contrary. Most players are going to give it a shot. Some people will like it, some won't, and some will be retards that say anything SoE does is junk.

    Personally, I'm glad to not have a Furor around EQ2. FoH cares about one thing and they always have: FoH. Ohh, he goes on with some sob stories about some level 35 paladin that can't get a group or whatever BS he's spreading at the moment, but everything they've bitched about in the past and present has been about their own personal desires, not the needs of the majority of the EQ player base, or even the majority of the high-end EQ player base. Furor would like people to believe he's "for the players" but he's always been "for the players of my guild."

    You give it 6 months after game release. He'll be bitching about WoW in the same way.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
  64. Re:Firefox 1.0? by Pleione · · Score: 1

    That's all that needed to be said. Why do you feel the need to be such a jerk about it?

  65. Spelling nazi attack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Heres" -> here's
    "after though" -> afterthought
    "there games" -> their games
    "more then" -> more than
    "then EQ" -> than EQ
    "durring" -> during
    "there own" -> their own
    "langauge" -> language
    "not change how it works differently" -> ?
    "habbit" -> habit
    "thigns" -> things

  66. Beta Testing by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1

    Any good developer/architect will have already worked out the server load months in advance of any beta period starting. They will have profiled the code and performed simulations to determine server load per user. The beta period is usually to check the *entire* product is stable, but by the time you reach beta you should have a stable product and a server farm to support it. I think I'll wait for a company that can get it's servers up and running, and with a history of good service...

    --
    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    1. Re:Beta Testing by obsid1an · · Score: 1

      If that is true then why is WoW going through a stress test/open beta directly before release? Sorry but you don't have stress tests and open beta directly before release so you can fix balance issues.

    2. Re:Beta Testing by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1

      The exact same reason I used to do them for the London Stock Exchange. To determine that the calculations you made earlier, and assumptions about the number of users and their usage patterns correlate to the real world conditions.

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    3. Re:Beta Testing by obsid1an · · Score: 1

      Hence why they are packing the servers purposefully to test their code, and why beta testers shouldn't complain about lag. I see it in WoW too but it doesn't mean the developers don't know what they are doing. Anyways, I have EQ2 now and will see just how bad it is compared to what people are saying.

  67. time travel by randalx · · Score: 1

    Set 500 years after EverQuest, EverQuest II is a new and different game experience in a world marred by a series of massive cataclysms.

    More than anything this is probably the part I find the most intriguing. I wonder how deeply they will be tying the two games together. Wouldn't it be cool if for example some important event that occurs in EQ I alters the timeline for EQ II. Perhaps there could even be some quests in EQ I to prevent the prophesied upcoming cataclysm! Alternatively the quests to prevent the cataclysm actually cause it!!

    1. Re:time travel by LarsWestergren · · Score: 1

      >>Set 500 years after EverQuest, EverQuest II is a new and different game experience in a world marred by a series of massive cataclysms.
      >I wonder how deeply they will be tying the two games together. Wouldn't it be cool if for example some important event that occurs in EQ I alters the timeline for EQ II. Perhaps there could even be some quests in EQ I to prevent the prophesied upcoming cataclysm!


      While an intriguing thought, how great do you think the chance is that they would include a quest that could make several man years of already developed content (quests, artwork, maps, stories..) for EQ2 obsolete?

      >Alternatively the quests to prevent the cataclysm actually cause it!!

      Yah, that would be one way of possibly doing it, a plot "twist" that makes the players think they made a difference, but with the same outcome as if they had failed.

      This is sort of the trouble with most MMORPGs, you can't really change the story. Too expensive to implement, or other players would complain. A Tale in the Desert is the only notable exception I know of, check my earlier post about it.

      --

      Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die

    2. Re:time travel by randalx · · Score: 1
      While an intriguing thought, how great do you think the chance is that they would include a quest that could make several man years of already developed content (quests, artwork, maps, stories..) for EQ2 obsolete?

      Good point. But perhaps smaller scale or low impact tie ins could be possible. Example a new one time player event that involves killing an NPC means his descendant no longer exists in EQ II but is instead replaced by somebody else. This could be interesting.

      Anyhow we've all seen enough Star Trek time travel episodes to know how these things work! :)
    3. Re:time travel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I would like to do is find the quest in EQ1 that causes this cataclysm and shuts down servers. I reckon we would soon find out the most popular game as all those that say "I've too much time invested(sic) in this to leave" find something else to play.

      Me, I'm probably off to CoH, but might wait for a server to turn up in my time zone...

  68. For UK people by fullofangst · · Score: 1

    Hey guys,

    If you're interested in checking out Everquest 2, the November LAN Party in Newbury from Multiplay (12-15 Nov) will have an area dedicated to showing off the game from Sony.

    (Halo 2 multiplayer will also be there, shameless plug)

  69. lore by randalx · · Score: 1

    Just found the link to Tome of Destiny on the EQ II site for those interested in the lore of the game.

  70. Re:Firefox 1.0? by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

    when was i a jerk about it?

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  71. Re:Christmas! In November! by Zorilla · · Score: 1

    The software developers have their deadlines synchronized under the Corporate Christmas Timeframe. According to the Corporate Christmas Timeframe, Christmas starts on October 12th and ends January 8th.

    --

    It would be cool if it didn't suck.
  72. Excellent criticism of EQ2 written by an EQ MVP by MarsF · · Score: 4, Informative

    A friend of mine sent me this excellent criticism of EverQuest 2 written by an EverQuest MVP Beta Tester. The thread is long but the writer is well spoken and she goes into great depth about all aspects of game play, their strengths, and their [numerous, critical] flaws:

    http://eq2.forums.thedruidsgrove.org/showthread.ph p?t=7973&page=1&pp=15

    This is a must-read thread for anyone even remotely thinking of dropping money on this game.

    1. Re:Excellent criticism of EQ2 written by an EQ MVP by Winterblink · · Score: 1

      It's worth nothing that between the time Lark's review was written and now, a staggering amount of additions and changes were made to Everquest 2, nearing the end of beta. It is an extremely good review, no doubt of that, but I took it into consideration along with a lot of other sources of information.

      --
      "I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
      -Hoban Washburn
    2. Re:Excellent criticism of EQ2 written by an EQ MVP by MarsF · · Score: 1

      I am glad to hear that they have been trying to remedy a number of the problems that Lark posted. For their sake I hope there is a lot of improvement.

      Still, reading the thread really made me wonder, exactly who where they thinking of when designing this game? The players? The developers? The socialites? The achievers?

      It sounds like it has so many 'conveniences' for players that the fantasy atmosphere may be eroded. I always thought of North Karana in the original EQ as a giant subway station; trains every 15 minutes, day and night, pick up some goods from the vendors while you pass through...

      For example, why don't they try to be creative about the teleports to the moon? Why not have them only take place when the moon is directly overhead or some similar predictable celestial event? Why not make the ground shake? A pillar of light maybe? Animals fleeing in terror? Something?! Add some sense of wonder to the thing!

      I didn't expect much from EQ2 after seeing the stagnation of EQ1. Maybe we have to go back to the drawing board. Grow the concepts founded in MUD(MOO,MUSH) into new games at a simpler level. Start over.

    3. Re:Excellent criticism of EQ2 written by an EQ MVP by Winterblink · · Score: 1

      I think it's hard to call for a total revamp of the MMO genre based solely on a single game's flawed take on it. And it's hard to say how EQ2 will be since it's only launching today. I still haven't got ahold of my copy, so I can't speak to how the game actually plays...

      That being said, from what I have seen of EQ2 and from what others are saying, it looks like they're sparing no expense to design a game that has an awful lot of detail in its presentation. I imagine a lot of what used to be "half-assed" in previous games will now be presented quite nicely. It seems that the EQ2 development team's put a lot of passion into this, and I think that will come across to anyone playing the game.

      --
      "I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
      -Hoban Washburn
  73. Penalty for dying by iceperson · · Score: 1

    Actually, all of your equipment takes 10% damage when you die and repairing it gets expensive fast. I've been playing for a few weeks and love it. I bought EQ1 and never played it after my initial 30 days. I got really tired of killing rats. Maybe that was because I bought the game a year or 2 after it was released and it was already pretty established. Maybe if I knew someone who could help me power level I would think differently. As it was it didn't matter how "big" the game was because I never got far from the steps of qeynos. EQ1 didn't seem to have room for the casual gamer. Maybe EQ2 does, but without an open beta I guess I'll never know.

  74. Nintendo DS by celerityfm · · Score: 1

    Nintendo DS launches November 21st.

    Some people already got their hands on one.

    Woot!

    --
    ...unfortunately no one can be told what The Mat^H^H^HGoatse is...they must experience it for themselves...
  75. Obligatory Dr. Suess Quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I meant what I said and I said what I meant, an elephant's faithful one-hundred percent."

    -Horton Hears a Who

    1. Re:Obligatory Dr. Suess Quote by Golias · · Score: 1

      ... or in this case, 108%

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  76. I work for SOE. Do you want a job? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have some terrific ideas.

  77. Re:AMAZON HAS IT!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am glad you think your UID makes you a better person. Your life must be sad.

  78. I WILL have a Nintendo DS... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh yes. It will be mine.

  79. EQ2 only available in stores? by Comrade64 · · Score: 1

    I'll admit...I love these games. But my most recent problem comes from the fact that I pre-ordered the collectors edition quite some time ago and now the game is coming out...yeah! But I pre-ordered from SOE's Station store. OOPS!!! Big mistake!

    Don't let me EVER order form the Station Store again!!! I know I didn't choose the quickest shipping option, but since November 5th my order has been in the "Currently being filled" status and the charge has been sent to my credit card (I think). I still don't have an email confirming shipment, I still don't have a tracking number, I now don't have any hopes of getting this game by the end of the month.

    I also noticed that the collector's edition is listed as "out-of-stock" in the Station Store. Hhhhmmmm...did they ship off all of their inventory to Fry's, EB, and Best Buy and leave nothing in their own store? Is my order not filled yet because they don't even have any in stock to send to me?

    Meanwhile...some of my friends got their copies yesterday at one of the local stores. The rest are getting theirs today. Me? I'm starting to think of finding a way to cancel my order and just forget this game.

    Nah! I'll wait it out...but I'm not happy and I'd like to know WTF is going on with my order.

    --
    If you are reading this, then you are one of those people whom I just can't take seriously.
    1. Re:EQ2 only available in stores? by Katharine · · Score: 1

      Same thing happened to me and my husband. He just called me to tell me that according to the EQ2 boards on Sony's site, whoever packed the boxes foolishly did not properly secure the DVD's in the collector's edition tins and they all got scratched.

      Apparently they are shipping on Thursday.

    2. Re:EQ2 only available in stores? by Katharine · · Score: 1

      An update for the benefit of the parent poster: My husband just called again, now they are saying the boards that the collector's editions were tied up in customs.

      Hum.

      Hubby just called the local game store, found the collector's edition was available there and bought it. We are canceling our Sony order. You might want to do the same.

      My current theory is that Sony didn't have enough collector's editions to fulfill all their direct pre-orders and retailer sales and figured that they'd have more trouble in the long run if they disappointed the retailers than their own retail customers. After all, you are only buying a few (if more than one) copies of the game. EB Games and the like are buying hundreds of thousands and no doubt would be displeased if Sony forced them to disappoint their own pre-order customers.

    3. Re:EQ2 only available in stores? by Comrade64 · · Score: 1



      I finally got the email with that explanation. I'm busy most of this week anyway and need to get ahead in school so I can play the game with earnest.

      ciao

      --
      If you are reading this, then you are one of those people whom I just can't take seriously.
  80. Improved Graphics + Sound + Heather Graham by Chi+Hsuan+Men · · Score: 1

    = fantastic way to break up level grinding. For example:

    EQ Player: Die MOB! *Click**Click**Click**Click*

    MOB: That's the 1,000,000,000th time today! YARGH! *Dies*

    EQ Player: w00t! I got the Carbuncle of Doom! I can complete my quest now!!!!!1111one *Zones to City*

    Heather Graham NPC: You have found the carbuncle of Doom for me! You are such a brave....strong....handsome adventurer. I will reward you in my own special way...

    EQ Player: *Fap* *Fap* *Fap* *Fap* *Fap* *Fap*

    --
    Respect It.
  81. Netcode is great says players by obsid1an · · Score: 1

    Well according to people actually playing the retail game, the servers are great. No lag at all.

  82. thank you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    eom

  83. Re:AMAZON HAS IT!! by Matt+Perry · · Score: 1
    you should be ashamed of yourself. the parent post is simply trying to drive people to amazon using his referall ID to earn money from any potential sales.
    I don't understand why people have a problem with this. If you buy it from his referral link or buy it by searching the Amazon site, the price is the same. Who cares if someone makes a few cents off of Amazon's profits?
    --
    Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
  84. Re:AMAZON HAS IT!! by Lansphere · · Score: 1

    This guy has referal links in his URLs also! Geez!

  85. Mod parent up by Snaller · · Score: 1

    Because its actually insightfull not flamebait.

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating