$1.5 Million Bar-code Scheme Bilks Wal-Mart Stores

nomrniceguy writes "Two couples have been charged in a price-switching scheme that allegedly defrauded Wal-Mart stores in 19 states of $1.5 million over the last decade. Authorities said the scheme involved using a home computer to produce UPC bar codes for cheaper products and slipping them over the real codes on high-priced items. The suspects then allegedly sold the merchandise, or returned it for refunds or store gift cards that also were sold."

Comments

Doesn't add up

[jardin]

If they were rung up as lower priced items, then wouldn't it show the wrong items on the cash register/receipts? I don't understand how the cashiers didn't catch on. And how did they go about returning these items when the wrong items (and prices) were printed on the receipts?

Re:Doesn't add up

[stickystyle]

Have you been to a WalMart?
The people that work there are not like in the commericals, they are just scaning you product, waiting till it's there chance to die.

Re:Doesn't add up

[tmbg37]

The article said the the couple purchased items during busy periods, so probably the checkout clerk either didn't notice/didn't want to hold up the line. It's also likely that the employees just didn't care enough to make a fuss about it.

Re:Doesn't add up

[maxdamage]

My thoughts exactly... They would only be able to return something with the same code and so they would be given the same refund anyway... And they dont refund more than what you paid for an item anyway...

Re:Doesn't add up

[trevdak]

Having worked in a Wal-Mart for one summer, I can assure you that I not only didn't pay attention to the register display thing, but I would've welcomed some excitement of someone actually stealing from the store. Then again, for there to be any excitement I'd either have to be an accomplice or actually bust them. Hmmm.

Worst job I've ever had.

I never noticed anyone stealing so Wal Mart don't sue me when you read this.

Re:Doesn't add up

[jardin]

Let's say they stick a $10 toaster UPC on a plasma TV. Maybe the cashiers slip up and let the sale slide, but what happens when they return it? The receipt first of all has the wrong item, and secondly says it was only purchased for $10. Even if they are dumb enough to mistake the plasma television for a toaster, wouldn't they only get their $10 back?

Re:Doesn't add up

[hypermike]

They probably never used the receipts, Ive never had a problem returning something there without one. For example Im guilty of this, I had a ps2 controller that broke due to static (2 in one week I might add)- FYI, dont get close to them if your charged! Anyway I just walked in with the controller and walked out with a new one seconds later. I originally bought it at Gamestop, they turned my return down, but its hard to believe that no one caught on.

Re:Doesn't add up

[petecarlson]

Perhaps they printed their own recipts with the right item and price. I did this once at best Buy when I needed a recipt for a cell phone that I had bought the stupid insurance for. The reciept had faded to the point where it was hardly legible. They told me it wasn't valid because they couldn't read it. I went home and printed a new recipt with a thermal printer and took it to another store where they replaced my phone.

Re:Doesn't add up

[robslimo]

Hmmm, I think I see a weakness in the 'self checkout' concept. How the heck do you prevent the UPC abuse there? I guess they will have to rely the old security cams to spot folks sticking labels on boxes.

BTW, kudos to the submitter for providing a link to the light-weight (printable) version of the article.

Re:Doesn't add up

[cmallinson]

They would only be able to return something with the same code and so they would be given the same refund anyway

They probably returned the items without receipts. Many stores will give only store credit, or gift cards in the amount of the lowest sale price for the item when it is returned without a receipt. They still would have made money, and that would account for them having gift cards to sell.

Re:Doesn't add up

[cl191]

They don't care about anything, I made a few returns before, and they didn't even bother to open up the boxes to check the contents (even though I have broken the seals). Also, there are some "self checkout" lanes in some of their stores. There's supposed to be someone watching you remotely during the process, but I guess they don't care much either.

Re:Doesn't add up

[has2k1]

Walmart is probably the worlds largest company. It has thousands if not millions of employees.

In a sufficiently large number of people many are idiots and never underestimate the "effectiveness" of idiots in large numbers.

Re:Doesn't add up

[VertigoAce]

This is Wal-Mart we're talking about... I'm sure their employees don't really care that much about keeping customers honest. This is the kind of store that lets college students purchase home entertainment centers for their dorm rooms and return them every 90 days under their "no questions asked" return policy. Losing a little here and there to the dishonest customers might be worthwhile if you can get the honest ones to spend enough money there.

Re:Doesn't add up

[trs9000]

The receipt first of all has the wrong item, and secondly says it was only purchased for $10. Even if they are dumb enough to mistake the plasma television for a toaster, wouldn't they only get their $10 back?

Yes, in theory. However, one of the reasons my mom loves walmart (and i cant really argue this point) is that they will take *anything* back. No receipt? Fine! Got it somewhere else? No problem! You broke it?! and coughed on it and it's a food product?!! Sure, we'll take it back! They are very accomadating with returns.

Re:Doesn't add up

[zmollusc]

Depends on what you do. If you mark a 32" plasma as 'tin of beans, $0.25' then the cashier may become suspicious, if you mark it as a 32" CRT tv of the same brand then you may get away with it. There are only a few characters on the till's readout and the cashier can't be expected to know every item. If the scanner accepts the barcode and the display reads something plausible "Tv 32 XYZ123 $300" then your minimum wage cashier might move on to the next thing in the basket.

Re:Doesn't add up

[BinaryOpty]

The possible reasons why the cashiers probably didn't notice are: 1. they don't care enough to name-match things they're scanning, 2. they didn't speak/read english well enough to know the difference, 3. the couple selected objects that had multiple versions spanning a price range (like buying a 512MB flash card with the price of a 128MB one), and 4. they used self checkouts (once Wal-mart implemented them). If they did bilk Wal-mart out of 1.5 million, then I'd say at least one of the four above were true at some point in their spree.

On the returns side, if they returned it for refunds sans reciept (like most stores will allow around Christmastime) then they could possibly do return them to make money.

Re:Doesn't add up

[iocat]

One of the most ironic things that ever happened to me was at Walmat. I usually don't shop there but got bad service at Sears and left, but still needed a seriously cheap 13" TV. So I went to Wal-Mart, browsed for a while, bought one and left, only to be assaulted at the door by some Nazi who insisted she had to check my receipt to make sure I hadn't stolen anything. Very irritating. Then I got to the car, put the TV in the trunk, looked down and saw a small craft item that I had thrown in the cart on impulse and *totally* forgotten to pay for... It was kind of a funny situation, as I then had to surrepticiously sneak it back into the store to pay for it while trying to explain to my son that I hadn't stolen it. Bottom line is -- even with their high security, you gotta figure if someone like me can *unintentionally* steal from Wal-Mart, others are probably ripping them off left, right, and center.

Re:Doesn't add up

[mondaypickle]

Most of the self check-out things weigh things after u scan them to make sure its the right item, so this wouldnt work on self check-out machines

Re:Doesn't add up

[goon america]

Maybe they could return the items without a receipt for store credit (for the original price), then use the credit to buy back more of the same items (at their "special" discount). Keep this going and you could get all of the store's inventory for just the investment of the "discounted" first few items.

Reminds me of that old David Letterman joke about Dan Quayle: Letterman suggested that one of the things a person should remember to do if ever to meet Mr. Quayle was to ask him for change of two tens for a five; Repeat until rich. I suppose that this was what this couple was trying to do, just using Walmart instead of Dan Quayle.

Re:Doesn't add up

[jim_v2000]

Because these are underpaid Wal-Mart cashiers. They really couldn't care less if a tv rings up as 2 bucks or 200 bucks. Especially if they are busy.

Re:Doesn't add up

[jonbryce]

If they see you scanning every item before you put it in the bag, they probably won't think anything is up. They aren't going to be close enough to actually see the item on the computer screen and compare it to what you are scanning. Even if they were, they will most likely have more than one lane to watch, otherwise they may as well do the scanning themselves.

Re:Doesn't add up

[iocat]

This is exactly how this scam works. They busted some people who were doing this at Home Depot around San Francisco (San Leandro and Emeryville, I think, if you want to be specific -- read the article), using a bar code for a really cheap light fixture and putting it on a much more expensive fixture (by $150 or so). They did the same thing with sinks, too. They'd buy like 10 at a time along w/ a ton of legit stuff, then sell the legit stuff to a contractor and return the light fixtures for the higher price. If they couldn't get cash (because they had no receipt) they'd get a gift card and sell that for a slight discount elsewhere. The scam netted them maybe ~$400K over 18 months. Check out the link, it's a pretty interesting story.

Re:Doesn't add up

[atrus]

Wal-mart already knows how much each item weighs. The self-checkout machines require that you put the item "in the bagging area", which is basicly a big scale. A simple way around it is to use a barcode of something very cheap but around the same weight as the expensive item (like a bag of soil, catfood, etc, would weigh the same as a TV).

Re:Doesn't add up

[OverlordQ]

I dont think they were *that* stupid, especially if they did this for 10 years. What I'm guessing what they would do is find very similar items, that at a quick glance look the same, and slap their modified barcode on the more expensive item, and/or slap a higher price on the cheaper item. I mean I dont know about you but most cashiers just ring the stuff up, they dont analyze every single item they ring up. They just want to hear that *beeeeep*

Re:Doesn't add up

[TrentC]

I used to work at Fry's Electronics, and we had a pair of thieves who did this.

They'd paste the UPC of a lower-priced item over the sticker of a higher-priced item of similar make (handhelds were good for this). Even if the checker was looking at the display, you might not catch the fact that the model numbers on the PDAs didn't match. The guys at the door didn't always catch it either.

Basically, they took advantage of two things at my location: the fact that relabelling items that had price changes did not always happen 100% (the result being that sometimes an item scanned at a different price than was ont he sticker; and believe me, I handled plenty of customers who complained that the CD/DVD/software that said $19.99 on the sticker rang up at $29.99) and the fact that many items Fry's purchased were often bought at clearance or through a special arrangement, so oftentimes the items had custom stickers over the original barcode.

So you have A) items that legitimately had UPC stickers on them, and B) items that scanned at different prices. It was a recipe for disaster; we only caught them when someone noticed them sticking a label on a product.

Jay (=

Re:Doesn't add up

[djupedal]

I don't understand how the cashiers didn't catch on.

The cashiers are part of the con - crook #1 goes to work at WalMart, and then crook B goes to A's register/checkout lane. Scan, pay small money, leave, rinse, repeat.

And before you think you can do it too, this hole has already been plugged - think up your own scam.

Re:Doesn't add up

[UniverseIsADoughnut]

You could pass a nuclear warhead across the scanner and have it come up as a ethernet card for $9.95 and most cashiers there would never notice.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Gordonjcp]

My girlfriend worked in a couple of supermarkets when she was a student. She checks every receipt carefully for mispriced or mis-scanned items. Apparently it's really easy to get ripped off by incorrect pricing, but no-one ever checks.

Of course, she takes the piss out of me because I look at every receipt to check the print quality, but that's because I do tech support for most of the UK's supermarkets...

Re:Doesn't add up

[cerberus4696]

In addition to weighing, self-checkout kiosks usually have a customer service rep nearby who can see the activity at each terminal from his own screen. Obviously, one can't monitor everything that goes through there, but if someone is walking out with a TV after paying $15.95, it's clear there's a problem.

Re:Doesn't add up

[ErikZ]

When you pay your workers as little as possible, they don't give a damn.

Re:Doesn't add up

[KiloByte]

or 5. they had some assistance from the clerks. You know, if you get paid next to nothing, it doesn't take much to make you look the other way.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Kierthos]

Well, I see how that could keep you from, say, getting 2 pounds of apples for the price of 1 pound of apples, or other weight-related grocery items, but I just can't see them having the weights of every single purchasable item in the database.

Besides, even with the weight thing, it would still pretty much let you slide by with any price you wanted to code for DVDs, VHS tapes, cassette tapes or CDs. I mean, Wally World pretty much has every DVD (save for box sets) packaged the same way... so you could have Jet Li's "Hero" ring up for whatever you wanted (say as one of the cheapo DVDs on sale, rather then the full price), and the weight probably wouldn't be off at all or by that much.

Kierthos

Re:Doesn't add up

[shufler]

It should be pointed out that this is in fact, honest to goodness Wal*Mart policy. The official Wal*Mart literature and training clearly states it's their policy to take back ANYTHING. The reasoning they give is that a happy customer is a returning customer.

Ask anyone who's worked there long enough, and they'll tell you all sorts of stories about people returning things which they don't even carry. Inventory time becomes hilarious in a very unhilarious way.

The policy doesn't extend to everything though. I belive things like CDs and DVDs can only be exchanged for the same item. It should also be noted that opened murchandise isn't resold, and that stores will donate a certain amount to charity. The rest is thrown in the trash compactor.

Re:Doesn't add up

[eric76]

My sister told me about one lady she met who bought a broken VCR for a dollar or two at a garage sale and then returned it to MallWart for a full refund of the original price.

Re:Doesn't add up

[idolcrash]

The weight thing doesn't seem to actually measure the weight, it just makes sure something is there. I always put stuff there when I'm buying and it doesn't touch or something I just push down with my hand and it works.

Re:Doesn't add up

[eclectro]

It's also likely that the employees just didn't care enough to make a fuss about it.

I don't think that it is a question of caring.

You must remember that Walmart has a HUGE inventory and for all purposes impossible for any single checkout clerk to be aware of price fluctuations. Couple this with the fact that Walmart awards clerks who are very fast at checking out, and it is apparent that by time the thieves made it to the checkout line it was too late already.

The article mentions that they were well travelled covering stores in multiple states, and that there were other retailers beside Walmart involved. So it was a pretty complex and effective scam, never giving any one clerk a chance to recognize them.

It must suck for them to be spending New Years (and likely a few more) in jail.

Re:Doesn't add up

[shufler]

I didn't RTFA, but I'd assume they were printing UPCs for similar items. For instance, a plasma TV would get another UPC from a cheaper plasma TV.

I don't know if this is what they did, however this is how I would go about doing it. As long as the cash rings up something that looks right, it should be alright. Though, the cash does display items using abreviations and other weird short forms to fit it on the line. I've seen items scan simply as "12 pack" or "toy", which isn't descriptive in the least.

Re:Doesn't add up

[obeythefist]

Find a $100 TV and a $200 TV.

Print the label for the $100 TV, stick it onto the $200TV. Buy the TV at Walmart A.

Lose receipt.

Remove fake label.

Take TV to Walmart B. Refund for $200 (or $200 gift certificate).

Go to Walmart C. Buy two $200 TV's for $100 each...

Re:Doesn't add up

[PerlDudeXL]

hmm. under-paid cashiers/clerks working countless hours smiling around with a mental vaccum.

might have several reasons.

this is like taking the expensive bananas and
selecting the cheap ones for checkout (you get a printed label with the product and its weight).
I'm not sure how many cashiers realize this type of cheating when you checkout.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Compact Dick]

The reasoning they give is that a happy customer is a returning customer.

As in returning the goods, right? Truer words were never said.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

a happy customer is a returning customer

...and buying...and returning...and buying...and returning. Getting happier all the time.

Re:Doesn't add up

[jesdynf]

How the heck do you prevent the UPC abuse there?

By not using UPCs -- Wal-Mart's pushing for RFID tags in all God's merchandise. That'd make self-checkout both faster and more difficult to defeat.

Although... with a portable software RFID reader and tag broadcaster, and a soft canvas tote bag lined with copper mesh, you might be able to scam it after all.

Yeah -- a Faraday cage with a reader on the inside and a multiple-channel transmitter on the other. (Hardwired together. I know.) Stick a recycle/globe logo on the bag's surface, so it's a hippie shopping bag.

Items are dropped into the bag and their code is stored. The bag transmits either that item code or a previously scanned code of a similar but cheaper item. Field user interface is dead simple.

If they use and trust RFID for self-checkout, wait until things are /very/ busy, grab a bunch of items that turn into much smaller items in your tote, wave it at the stand, pay in cash, and saunter on out the most crowded door. Flash the receipt at the harried greeter on your way out.

Primary weakness is either visual inspections by /sharp-eyed/ and diligent greeters or trained professionals who recognize aberrant behavior and have the leeway to follow it up.

Honestly, though, these people deserved to be caught. They found $10K in stolen goods? They used an /informant/ to track 'em down? Waaaaaaaaay too big a footprint. Bound to happen. Bringing in friends and making it a /business/ and -- you just know they had to brag about it. Mention it to people.

Dumbasses.

Re:Doesn't add up

[imroy]

I've used a scanner a few times to read old thermal-print movie stubs. It was surprising because the text was almost invisible. After a little playing with the levels in The GIMP, the text showed up pretty well. But I doubt your local supermarket employees would even know you can do that, let alone have the time to do it.

Re:Doesn't add up

[eric76]

I've wondered why some people didn't just change tags for the hell of it.

One time I saw someone taking parking tickets out from under the windshield wipers of vehicles and placing them under the windshield wipers of other vehicles.

They didn't get anything out of it. They just wanted to cause trouble.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Good call... Why are you my foe???

Re:Doesn't add up

[pummer]

You're missing the point. They did this to the tune of $1.5 million. This isn't a simpleton cashier or two who let things slide - they had to have a scheme for dealing with this.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Monkelectric]

My thoughts exactly. I worked at a walmart (although not as a checker) for a little while after college and people tried this *ALL* the time.

Im sure some people got away with it, but most got caught. I remember a cashier telling me about a guy who was buying leather jackes which curiously rang up at 17$ each.

Apparently the trick is to find something similar to what you want to steal, if you want to steal a 50$ pillow, find a 5$ one that will ring up and say "pillow" not "crayons or something :)

However, I am a self righetous prick, I think harming walmart is good no mater what :)

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also likely that the employees just didn't care enough to make a fuss about it.

It actually has nothing to do with caring. I worked at a grocery store for quite a long time earlier this year, and store policy, it seems for most retail stores is not to do anything to interfere with a customer who is shoplifting, ripping you off, ect. Furthermore, the customer is always right rule still holds. The only time a lowly checker is supposed to even consider doing anything is if the manager instructs them to do so. And since they are told to wait until after it's over to notify the manager, and they probably didn't goto the same cashier twice, it's not hard to not get caught doing it (although, they did it too much, and eventually did get caught).

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

5. The cashiers were from Mexico and the cheap prices seemed right in line with the knock-offs sold down there.

Re:Doesn't add up

[swaic]

I heard something to the extent that stores use a certain ink which fades away after x amount of days so you don't come back and get a refund. I have a few very faded receipts, but no proof that is what they're actually up to. Nonetheless, I scan my receipts when I get home.

Re:Doesn't add up

[MayonakaHa]

Not to mention a lot of these have a "Skip Bagging" button on the screen that you can use and just stick the item back in the cart after you scan it.

Re:Doesn't add up

[NevermindPhreak]

1.5 million / 10 years / 365 days / 4 people

an average of just over a hundred bucks a day per person. shouldnt be too hard, espically once you get your shit together, to keep up that type of scam rate.

also, you have to figure in the fact that any loss prevention team is going to quote any damage estimate at as high as possible. when i was younger, me and some friends tried to rip off walmart in the same way, except we just cut the UPC from one product and put it on another. trust me when i say the cashiers could really care less. however, we were busted by some undercover shoppers in the process. we put a $20 UPC on a $30 product, but the police report quoted $50 worth of stolen property.

Re:Doesn't add up

[NevermindPhreak]

also, a lot of products actually have new UPC stickers over top of their old ones. this will happen when a manufacturer makes a "10% more free" type of promotion, or something additional added into the packaging, or whatever other reason you can think of.

Re:Doesn't add up

[zakezuke]

Wal Mart is the king in data tracking. They are the people who know that pop tart sales go up after a hurricane. I would find it hard to believe that someone could forge a walmart reciept as each one has it's own unique code which is associated with the specific transaction. Even if it's just a stick of gum or some rolaids they keep track of it all. I would think it would be hard to forge.

It makes me wonder why anyone would try to rip off walmart.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Gordonjcp]

but I just can't see them having the weights of every single purchasable item in the database

That is *exactly* what they do.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Gordonjcp]

The RFID self-checkout stuff is going to *rock*. I can't tell you much about it, but basically forget scanning anything, forget queues, sod all that bollocks. Take what you want, drop it in your bag, walk past the scanner (very similar to the security scanners they already use) and then swipe your card. The RFID tags are reset after reading, so you can't be charged twice.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Zork the Almighty]

Sounds like an IBM commercial.

Re:Doesn't add up

[eln]

Large items don't usually carry the little theft prevention devices that trigger the annoying "You have activated the Wal-Mart Inventory Control System" thing when you walk out, because they're too big to rub over that rubber thing by the register that deactivates the device. Thus, the only way to make sure you paid for it is for the door greeter to check your receipt. In short, the only time the greeter will ever do that is if you have a large piece of expensive equipment in your cart.

Re:Doesn't add up

[shufler]

you have to figure in the fact that any loss prevention team is going to quote any damage estimate at as high as possible ... we just cut the UPC from one product and put it on another ... we put a $20 UPC on a $30 product, but the police report quoted $50 worth of stolen property

Actually, $50 is correct. You took the UPC from a $20 product, and used it to (try to) steal a $30 product. By removing the UPC, you damaged the $20 product, which resulted in a loss for Wal-Mart. For the sake of completeness, $20 + $30 = $50. It seems that the Loss Prevention Team claimed a very accurate amount.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Frank Abignale wrote about this scam in one of his recent books, I believe. In that case, the scammers liked tents, as tents would come in a large variety of prices and models and would usually only show up on the receipts as something like "6 man tent." Plus, it was easy to come up with a 1001 excuses for why you would want to return a tent.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Tet]

It makes me wonder why anyone would try to rip off walmart.

Judging by the article, there would appear to be at least 1,500,000 very good reasons...

Re:Doesn't add up

[TheScorpion420]

This is true, I personally have worked for wal-mart. They are easy as pie to rip off if you work there long enough, but anyways back to the point. The number along with the bar code at the bottom of the label is unique for every transaction. The return process involves scanning that bar code or typing in the numbers, then the register has a complete list of the items in the transaction, how it was tendered, any price corrections made at the register, any errors corrected everything. If you were to scan an item that wasn't on the original recipt and try to return the item, the register will tell you that it wasn't on the recipt. Now you can do a no recipt return, but they take down your drivers license number and you are limited to 3 per year. Even at that Non-recipt return are supposed to be returned in the form of a shopping card with the corner cut off so they can tell the shopping card was issued because of a non recipted return. However get a trainee and they won't know the difference, especially in the states like Iowa that require companies to return gift certificated to cash at the customers request. Or at last chance you could be like my girlfriend, loose the recipt and just dress in a miniskirt and a tight shirt and act dingy to the pimply faced associate.

Re:Doesn't add up

[roie_m]

No, because they didn't try to steal the $30 product, they tried to pay $20 for it. By your calculations, they stole $20+$10=$30.
But, when someone else went to buy the original $20 item, they probably just looked up the price and charged them $20. The real value of the steal was $10+(five minutes of some cashier's time at minimum wage)

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, ya... because that UPC sticker on the first product is certinaly worth $20 bucks. He didn't even mention where they 'snaged' him. If he didn't check out, could they prove he was trying to comit fraud or such? I know I've put things in my pocket when shoping without a cart because I needed an extra hand but couldn't just 'grow' one... as long as I pay for it before leaving the store I havn't stolen a thing. But then again I'm sure their is some a-hole out there that would try to charge me with a crime. Fortunatly I've got a few people I can call, and a little money... so if they did try and charge me it would 'disapear' shortly after my phone call. unfortunatly not everyone has the same means to defend their rights. Obviously he was commiting a crime... he admited it. But you with out knowing all the facts, jumped to conclusions. =) "The Man" isn't always 'right'.

Re:Doesn't add up

[welshie]

Self checkouts, or at least, the ones I have used, will weigh the output in the bagging area, and compare the added weight to the weight as declared in the shop inventory system. That stops you buying two litres of milk and tagging it as one litre, however, it wouldn't stop a 512MB flash card instead of a 256MB flash card. Mind you, the self check-outs that I've used will know that certain items (like 20 year old single malt whisky) are security tagged, and will automatically signal assistance from an attendant. Flash cards would probably be security tagged; hell, I've even seen a pack of two AA batteries security tagged - they're far too easy to pocket.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Wild Wizard]

Don't store thermal receipts in or next to plastic objects, they will fade if you do.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

According to TFA they ran this scam across 19 states -- makes sense... there's no way you could keep returning big-ticket items to the same store everyday without raising a lot of suspicion - you'd have to move around to keep the scam going at the scale they did

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

you =forget one more important factor.

when you pay them as little as possible, you never hire good employees.

any manager that does not know that is an idiot.

and yes, walmart managers are idiots. I know a few.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Nurgled]

This probably doesn't apply to Wal-Mart, but Tesco supermarkets in the UK sell some goods which are priced on weight, and this is done by weighing the product at package time and encoding the weight into the last three digits of the barcode. If this was changed to a lower weight there would be no easy way to spot this at the till, especially if the entire label was switched so that the "human-readable" weight was different too. Presumably a similar scheme could apply to different versions of the same product, such as a packet of 200 CD-R disks marked with the barcode for 150. This would be easier to spot, but only if the staff were paying attention.

Of course, they'd probably get spotted on the CCTV system while switching the labels.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Of course, she takes the piss out of me

That, I'd like to see.
Or, on second thought, maybe not.

Re:Doesn't add up

[zakezuke]

but the police report quoted $50 worth of stolen property.

Everything is on sale at walmart. Virtualy nothing is full price. But if there is a theft, by god they are going to report the full price or MSRP. They might have been able to sell that item that was on sale for $30 at $50.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

The policy doesn't extend to everything though. I belive things like CDs and DVDs can only be exchanged for the same item.

Yeah, they've got all their employees brainwashed into believing that accepting returns on opened DVDs is a violation of federal law! Literally, I've heard that at two different stores. A few months back I bought a DVD (for all of $5.50) that was labeled widescreen/full-screen but when opened, the actual disc was only full-screen.

They had no more copies of that disc in stock (and even if they did, I had learned that they were all defectively full-screen only). It was the most amazingly difficult experience trying to get my money back. Had to escalate it three levels, ultimately to someone who was not forced to wear a wal-mart uniform.

And then they wouldn't give me the tax back -- I didn't have the receipt and they claimed I could be working a scam of buying it in some other state that did not have sales tax.

Jesus Fucking Christ were they morons.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

if you do not have your receipt, credit is issued in the form of a gift card. home depot does this as well but keeps a record of your purchases and you must provide ID in order to receive the 'gift card'. this does not prevent petty fraud, but it allows them to detect out of the ordinary returns activity

the scam is easy and most anyone with a bar code printer can eat prime rib for the price of shoulder steak

Re:Doesn't add up

[vranash]

Want fun, leave them in the sun for a few hours. I've left Fry's reciepts on the front seat of my car when I take the merchandise in (so I wouldn't 'lose' them, heh) and when I come back out the next day/later that evening, the entire thing is invisible.

I'm sure it's great alternative to a complete 'no return' policy however ;-p

Re:Doesn't add up

[drawfour]

I worked at Wal-mart during college. I worked in the Sporting Goods department -- so I sold ammunition and guns. Ammunition is something that you are NOT allowed to resell once it has been returned -- it's an explosive, after all. Well, wouldn't you know it, but we would accept returned ammunition with a smile on our face. Luckily we never restocked it... instead we donated it to the local police department. It was a tax write-off, and the local PD got plenty of ammo for target practice and stuff. But it was plain stupid to accept a return on an item that we knew we would not be able to sell again and that we couldn't return to the manufacturer (defective items are returned with usually no problems). But we did it to keep people happy...

Re:Doesn't add up

[Luigi30]

I've been to a McDonald's where the food was so hot, the thermal paper on the reciept completely turned black.

Re:Doesn't add up

[rah1420]

I just can't see them having the weights of every single purchasable item in the database.

If they're doing Item Data Sync (and I know for a fact Wally World is, along with some other retailers -- since they're doing it with my employer) not only do they know the price, the UPC code, the weight, the color, but they know the inner pack (how many in a "multi-pack" if any,) how many per case, and the cube of the item so that they know how much volume the item will take up in the truck and how much real estate it will consume on the pallet. We have Logistics Strategy Analysts who think it's a Good Day (tm) when they can get a truck that gets closer to the nirvana of 4000 cube (which is the theoretical capacity of a 53' trailer.) The cube data that is provided by Item Data Sync allows them to max out shipments without "weighing out" (being overweight) or "cube out" (being too big to fit on a single trailer.)

It's a trivial matter to send this weight data to a checkout scale.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Nogami_Saeko]

Ya, I had a similar problem with a DVD that I got as a gift - opened it up and discovered it was infact fullscreen.

Brought it back to Walmart where I waited in line for 20 min at the returns counter to find out that "they had to process it at the DVD counter", so off to the DVD counter.

Give it to the guy at the DVD counter who says "no problem", gets the widescreen version, and proceeds to whip out a big knife to cut the package open (store policy! if you bring back an opened DVD, they have to cut-open the replacement they give you!). Bozo's knife slips into the DVD case as he's hacking away, and scratches the disc (which I don't discover 'till I get home - fortunately it still plays OK).

Then it's back to the original line I waited in to wait for another 20 min so they can "process the return". I was about ready to kill...

N.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Splab]

Speaking of morons - you wasted at least half an hour, or more likely an hour complaining. Dont know how much you make, but at my sallary you could have bought that dvd 5 times...

Re:Doesn't add up

[julesh]

Of course, she takes the piss out of me because I look at every receipt to check the print quality, but that's because I do tech support for most of the UK's supermarkets...

So is it you that I blame for the fact that all my 2 year old Safeway receipts are now illegible? ;)

For the record: I hate thermal printers.

Re:Doesn't add up

[16K Ram Pack]

There's a couple of major stores I know in the UK that don't like to give returns. And you know what? Once people experience an obstructive refund policy, they'll think twice about giving you any money again.

So, for the sake of 1 refund of 1 product, you can lose years of business, as well as people telling all their friends what a bunch of bastards you are.

Friends of mine have switched all their games shopping because one time a game failed to work, even though the computer met the spec. Rather than the store giving a refund out of grace, they argued like mad that "look, it works fine on our machine" and refused. Rather than pursue legal channels or spend time escalating it, they just have chosen to shop elsewhere now.

Re:Doesn't add up

[N1EY]

States will not release the sales tax money to them without proof. So they lose the sales tax money, if they refund it to you without a receipt. This is why the stores require a receipt for a refund of sales tax. It is not a requirement of the law per se.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

tates will not release the sales tax money to them without proof.

Bullshit. Ain't no "releasing" going on. Each day's take goes into one big total and wal-mart pays the tax on that. A return is subtracted from that day's total before tax owed to the state is calculated. Money is fungible.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

If you can go to work any time of the day and get paid, well congratulations, I think. If I wasn't standing their getting my money back, I would have been doing something even less productive.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

I take it your sallary is not generated in the field of education?

Re:Doesn't add up

[Mold]

If you press the skip bagging button three times, it stops your transaction until a cashier can see what's going on. Normally they just unlock it, but they have to do that every three items you skip. Which could complicate things.

Re:Doesn't add up

[A Life in Hell]

I've wondered why some people didn't just change tags for the hell of it.

actually, my mates and I used to do exactly that. I don't think it's _that_ uncommon

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

trust me when i say the cashiers could really care less.

Stop.

Think.

You just said, effectively, "trust me when i say the cashiers really care."

If you "could care less", then you actually do in fact care. The phrase you're looking for is "couldn't care less".

Re:Doesn't add up

[TobiasSodergren]

You can buy them at Wal-Mart too? I thought nuclear warheads were eBay only.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Gordonjcp]

I don't develop them, I just fix them. The printers they use in Safeway are really nice to work on, no tools required for most jobs (although changing cutter gears requires a pointy screwdriver to release a circlip and something to catch the inevitable pingfuckit).

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you just hate retarded people? You know, the kind of retarded people that think they're intelligent and sit at their desk jobs day after day not even beginning to comprehend how utterly retarded they really are.

People that use "could care less" where they should be using "couldn't care less" are exactly the sort of retard that should be drug out into the street and shot as an example to all the other retards to go take some remedial English classes.

Re:Doesn't add up

[AK Marc]

If you "could care less", then you actually do in fact care. The phrase you're looking for is "couldn't care less".

Well, both are correct. The one you don't like is the first half of an older saying that went something like, "I could care less, but it would take too much effort." The second is correct as a stand alone. So both have the same meaning, though they are apparently opposites.

Couple that with the fact that you obviously knew what they meant, and there is no problem with using the "wrong" version because it is properly understood by all people that understand idioms (some native speakers may have trouble with the phrase the first time they hear it, but they catch on quickly).

Re:Doesn't add up

[Kierthos]

The problem lies with the fact that most DVDs (in their packaging) are so similar in weight that it renders a weight measure on them useless. So you can have the DVD of some new release at a high price weigh the same as a DVD of some 15 year old B movie, and the weight will not clue the system in that you're spoofing the UPC to shave the cost of the DVD.

The same with VHS tapes. The same with music cassettes. And the one pound generic chocolate bar weighs the same as the one pound name brand chocolate bar, so if you're spoofing the UPC, the weight means two things. Jack and shit.

You say they do it? Fine. But it's not a key field for item verification. About the only thing it's good for is if you buy fresh veggies or fruit, which is costed out by total weight.

Kierthos

Re:Doesn't add up

[vondo]

They probably made up bar codes for similar items. Say you stick a barcode for a $40 microwave on a $200 microwave.

As for returns, most places take a return for credit with receipt. They give the lowest price in the last 90 days or so, but it's still not bad. I would guess that's where the gift cards mentioned came from.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Takumi2501]

Sadly enough, I've worked at Wal-Mart. Trust me, you can return anything without a reciept if you make enough noise to a manager.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

While I have to agree with your statement, its not true in my small town. - My has worked at walmart for two years, and is making more than my friend who is assistant manager of the grocery store in town 5 years experience. (don't say thats because the grocery is trying to keep in business because of walmart, our walmart doesn't even have groceries)

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

You get what you pay for and minimum wage doesn't buy you a whole lotta givafuk...

Re:Doesn't add up

[ral315]

Actually, it probably wouldn't be too hard, if they did it right. One could feasibly change, say, a high-priced coat, selling for $75, for a Wal-Mart brand coat, selling for $30. It'd most likely just ring up as "Coat", with a few other letters in there that the cashier wouldn't bother to decipher.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Jamesie]

Speaking of morons - salary.

Re:Doesn't add up

[bryanp]

I wish you were at my Wal-Mart. I bought 5 boxes of .45ACP earlier this year, and when I got home one box had magically transformed into .40S&W. (IOW, the clerk stuck the wrong box in the bag and I didn't notice) I took it back and was told that they couldn't accept ammo for a return or exchange and that it was a "federal law" (translation: we don't want to do it).

I argued for a bit and eventually gave up and just gave the box to a friend of mine who owns a .40. I wasn't going to get into a huge argument over $10. Now I don't buy ammo at WM anymore - I'd rather spend a few extra $ at the local independantly owned gunstore and get decent service.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Retarded people ssssuuhhck.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

I witnessed a man sticking steaks down his pants in a grocery store. I told the manager and pointed the person out but he said there really was nothing he could do because a store employee did not witness the incedent. I guess they do not want to put their own ass on the line and false blame someone without all of the facts and details. He said he did recognize the person though and would watch closely if he saw him again.

Re:Doesn't add up

[boskone]

it probably sounded fun, except there's a good chance for that to ruin someone... perhaps not in the UK, but in the US, anything that messes with your credit/criminal record (like being delinquent on a ticket that you never knew you recieved) can seriously cost you tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars come mortgage time...

Re:Doesn't add up

[duffbeer703]

They take back anything. Once upon a time I was going on a camping trip, and somehow forgot my tent. I managed to exchange an old, beat-up phone that was in my friends car for a cheapo $30 coleman tent.

As far as the cashiers noticing... forget about it. Wal-Mart keeps the lines long and the cashiers busy... those poor bastards are too tired to notice anything.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

one pound generic chocolate bar weighs the same as the one pound name brand chocolate bar

Big deal, which one will hit the ground first though?

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

well, its different if they see you actually switching bar codes up than if you put something in your pocket. they can't (and walmart atleast) doesnt stop you or even make themselves noticed (UC shopper security follows you) until you are past the checkout point at the door.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Ring, ring...ring, ring

Clue bell ringing there Skippy.

Simply checking your bag prior to leaving the store would solve the problem.

Duh.

Re:Doesn't add up

[duffbeer703]

Can't be an IBM commercial... he didn't mention that you'll need 50 $200/hr IGS consultants to buy a stick of gum.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

i dont know if i would say something if i saw someone say... opening a video card box at best buy and shoving a raedon down thier pants (or putting it in a bag). but if someone is poor and can't afford food i'm not saying its right to steal however its more of a problem with our poverty situation and less about "people stealing". inventory shrinkage is a fact and people who work in retail know that.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually that's not quite accurate. If its obviously not ours or hasn't been for years, we won't take it back, but when in doubt, say yes.

Video games, CD & DVDs are a matter of copy protection law as far as I know, we're not supposed to take them back unless defective, and then only for an exchange. Exceptions are if we have no more, we will refund it, or if its one of the dump bin DVDs we'll just let you pick another, sinces its rediculous to make you dig through that bin for another copy.

Re:Doesn't add up

[dsmitchell1]

As a former Wal-Mart cashier (I worked there for one summer between getting my BA and starting grad school), I can tell you that the two things that matter most are (in no particular order):

• How fast you scan items
• Making sure that you don't make any customers mad

I, for one, hardly ever paid any attention to what was coming up on my screen, and when I did, it was often pretty incomprehensible (their displays don't show too many characters), so as long as they didn't try to purchase a TV for $2 or something like that, it's not likely that a cashier would notice.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

I had forgotten how agreeable the general slashdot populace is to stealing. I hate wally world as much as the next hippy, but I won't steal from them. I'm no goody-two-shoes, but damn, I hate thieves with a passion.

Re:Doesn't add up

[PhraudulentOne]

I have a friend that works at Walmart and I remember back when the PS2 *just* came out and the USA had somewhat of a shortage. Systems were going for (IIRC) like $7k on Ebay. The Walmart here (in Southern Ontario) were taking back PS2s and THROWING THEM IN THE TRASH COMPACTOR. My friend tried hiding one in the back that was destined for destruction, but someone found it and tossed it in. Not even charity got them. That's just crazy if you ask me ;)

Re:Doesn't add up

[true_majik]

I keep my Best Buy receipts for certain items. I never knew about the fading issue until I had to use an old receipt to take in my monitor (no image, good thing i bought the warranty). The receipt was very faded and could not really tell what the it was for. So I scanned that receipt and went off to the store to take in my monitor (and scanned the rest when I got back home). They gave me no problems. I guess the barcode was legibile enough to pull the record from the system...or maybe with other info not obtained directly from the receipt (like my name). Well, about a year later, my monitor went out again. By this time the original receipt was nothing but a white paper with black/brownish spots. Again, no problems. Actually, that was because I took a printout of the scan I had done the first time I went in. When they saw the original receipt, the were doing all sorts of face gestures trying to read it. That's when I busted out my scanned printout.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Pig Hogger]

There's a couple of major stores I know in the UK that don't like to give returns. And you know what? Once people experience an obstructive refund policy, they'll think twice about giving you any money again.
So, for the sake of 1 refund of 1 product, you can lose years of business, as well as people telling all their friends what a bunch of bastards you are.

This is the main reasons why little-fuck stores are faring so badly in the face of Wall-Marde: the little shits who run them will NEVER admit being wrong, and they ALWAYS treat their customers like they're doing their customers a favour by letting them in their holy stores. So, whenever a customer gets snubbed by one of those little fuck mom&pop stores, he says "fuck those fuckiong fuckers", and goes to Wall-Marde where he knows the glassy-eyed clerks there won't give him "NO" for an answer when some merchandise fucks-up.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

> The policy doesn't extend to everything though. I belive things like CDs and DVDs can only be
> exchanged for the same item. It should also be noted that opened murchandise isn't resold,
> and that stores will donate a certain amount to charity. The rest is thrown in the trash compactor.

This isn't true everywhere.... I've seen definitely opened items in the Wal-Marts around here quite a few times.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Rick.C]

The part about returning the items is easy. You just peel off your home-made sticker, exposing the real UPC code, then return the item without a receipt. Yes, you only get an in-store credit, but you can either sell that or use it to buy more mislabeled items.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

> When you pay your workers as little as possible, they don't give a damn.

That's not insightful. All businesses pay their employees as little as possible, if they want to stay in business. The difference is skilled vs. unskilled labor. It doesn't take any special skills or training to become a wal-mart employee. It does take special skills or training to become a doctor, lawyer, architect, etc.

Wal-mart employee or law firm associate, you will be paid as little as the firm can get away with to retain your skills. Just two different scales of the same thing...

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't you think to check your bag before you left the store?

And they let you own/use a gun?

Re:Doesn't add up

[graikor]

I'd think, with all the bad press that Walmart has gotten for how it treats its employees, you'd be aware that a Walmart cashier would probably make significantly less than $10 for five minute's work - which would equate to $120/hour...

Realistically, $10/hour seems to be a little high...

Re:Doesn't add up

[bryanp]

Didn't you think to check your bag before you left the store?

It's an easy mistake to make, both on my part and the clerk's part. I wasn't mad at him for putting the wrong item in the bag, I was just annoyed that they wouldn't exchange it.

And they let you own/use a gun?

Let? They don't have to let me. Self defense is a basic human right. And no, they don't let me own a gun. At last count I own 6 pistols, 1 shotgun and 5 rifles. But thanks for saying that. It reminds me why people who think that way annoy me. I think I'll celebrate the New Year by buying another gun.

Re:Doesn't add up

[pizzaman100]

One time I bought an item at a Idaho Walmart (6% tax) and returned it at a Washington Walmart (7% tax), and they gave me the extra. I made something like $0.40 on the transaction!! :)

Re:Doesn't add up

[mforbes]

Figuring a DVD at an average of $20 at WalMart, and you're saying you could have bought 5 copies of it with a 1/2 hour salary... do you really make $200/hr? If so, can I have your job?!

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

The folks on tv are real Wal Mart workers. Not actors.

Re:Doesn't add up

[bender647]

They do take back anything --

I once bought a gallon container of Mobil-1 and as I'm pouring it into my racebike I notice it's blacker than normal, and even smells a little gassy. Yes, they restocked used oil.

I was compensated with two gallons of unused oil and I now check the seals very carefully but it was obvious that Walmart employees didn't.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

"she takes the piss out of me"

heh heh. You UKers. I don't know if you know how funny that phrase is.

Re:Doesn't add up

[SiliconJesus101]

Buying ammo at the range is expensive as hell! I just bought a case (1000 rounds) of CCI Blazer 230 grain .45 FMJ at: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com for $168.00 with free shipping and a case (1000 rounds) of Russian Golden Tiger 7.62x39 for my AK at: http://www.aimsurplus.com for $77.00.

CCI Blazer is a very clean round compared to most others I have shot and it feels like it is a hotter load than the Remmington UMC and Winchester white box stuff at Wal-Mart. As for the Golder Tiger 7.62....well...it's your typical russian ammo, steel cased, SUPPOSEDLY non-corrosive berdan primed.

Re:Doesn't add up

[tylernt]

Wal-Mart has another interesting policy regarding ammo: http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30 6337&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Re:Doesn't add up

[ViMaster]

How did you get hot food at a McDonalds?

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Buying a gun is like flipping off Sara Brady... something best done often and repeatedly.

Re:Doesn't add up

[abb3w]

Now you can do a no recipt return, but they take down your drivers license number

So, this means a prolonged scam requires the ability to hack Wally World's computer system to generate bogus receipts (non-trivial), the abililty to make a variety of fake drivers licenses (more practical), or the ability to reliably pick out improperly trained employees (varies by scam artist, and more profitably used elsewhere).

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

My favorite Wal-Mart story was when there was this black woman (I normally wouldn't point out race, but she was obnoxiously black, the whole head back and forth thing when she talked to her husband later) in line in front of us, with a cart filled to the brim with 3-4 boxes each of different brands of decongestant, cold remedy stuff. Plus, a few toothbrushes, and film canisters.

Then, her husband comes in with another cart and pushes past us, filled with similar items.

The register would actually beep to warn the cashier that the customer had been trying to buy too many decongestants, and the cashier had to put some aside. Apparently, their system doesn't count all decongestants, only brand-by-brand.

Btw: If you're not familiar, the reason they're buying it is this couple was running a meth lab. That's why you're not supposed to be able to buy that many decongestants at once.

Well, you can at Wal-Mart.

Filed a report with the local PD. Nothing. Nobody cared.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course the DVD in question was a $5.50 DVD. Plus I think he meant to say half a year. So his huge salary is in fact...(carry the one)...(count on fingers)....$22 a year. Must work at McDonalds.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Dogtanian]

>> And they let you own/use a gun?

> Let? They don't have to let me.
> Self defense is a basic human right.

That as may be, you can't automatically get "I have the right to own a gun" from "I have the right to defend myself."

Unless, of course, you accept that people have the "right" to carry massive fuckoff knives, or own thermonuclear weapons for the same reason.

Yeah, it *is* the most OTT example I could think of, and it's not an anti-gun argument in itself; if Americans want to allow people to carry guns to defend themselves, that's their choice.

But your argument is still flawed. The right to self-defense either implies *nothing* about the type of weapon (if any) you may carry to defend yourself with, or it implies you may carry *any* weapon.

And if we want to bring 'reasonable force' into it, one man's reasonable force is another man's unacceptable risk. As I said, your society's choice, but it's a *choice* and not a simple step of logic.

Re:Doesn't add up

[roie_m]

You got me wrong, what I said was $10 PLUS five minutes of work. The five minutes of work is negligible when put next to the $10, of course.

Re:Doesn't add up

[HugeFatty]

Maybe it's just me, but it really seems that most people don't give a damn, no matter how much they're paid or where they work. They'd rather be doing anything other than work.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Opie812]

A little early to be doing the New Year's drinking isn't it? What he said was: The theft was $10 cash-money. Additionaly, they stole 5 minutes of some cashiers time. This cashier probably makes minimum wage. Nowhere did he say that a cashier makes $10 dollars for 5 minutes work.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, this argument is totally bunk unless the person could've been working instead of complaining. And that means that the person would have unlimited overtime at their convenience. Some of us are salaried ya know, so the money we get is the money we get, and if we can spend a few hours after work protecting that money from being drained into the abyss, it's well worth it.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

They might be placing the parking tickets under their own vehicles to avoid a parking ticket themselves. Transit cop passes by, sees parking ticket, assumes car has already been fined for expired meter and drives on.

The other vehicle will still get a copy of the ticket mailed after he hasn't payed in a month. I still don't condone it, but I've known people who've done this on occasion to avoid parking tickets on their car.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Create angry, bolded, absolute statement 2. Post to /. 3. Look like an idiot for using the words "Always" and "never" when frankly those are impossible 4. ??? 5. Profit?

Re:Doesn't add up

[Dun Malg]

Realistically, $10/hour seems to be a little high...

Cost of employing someone is often much higher than their hourly wage. They have to factor in insurance cost, taxation, etc. into the total. Employing a $7/hr person could easily cost $10/hr

Re:Doesn't add up

[Avenger337]

The customer is not always right. In fact, the customer is completely wrong more often than he/she is right. I worked in the fast food industry for a year and a half, and I cannot believe the low level of intelligence that over half the people that came through our door had. They couldn't find stuff that was right in front of their face, they would argue about prices until they were blue in the face, blah, blah, blah. Thank goodness my boss had enough sense to trust his employees more than random people off the street, or I would have been driven insane by the job.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Trying to pay $20 for a $30 item is theft.

A UPC is basically as valuable as the whole item in the stores view.

Total items stolen: 2
Total value of stolen property: $50
Finding a cop with a better grasp of math than some random slashdotters: priceless

Re:Doesn't add up

[tepples]

Order McDonald's coffee.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

"A UPC is basically as valuable as the whole item in the stores view."

So here's the problem. It's not that the "slashdotters math" is wrong, but it's just that worth is being caculated differently, more accurate actually, than what the store wants to think.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, peel off the fake UPC? duh

Re:Doesn't add up

[Dun Malg]

anything that messes with your credit/criminal record (like being delinquent on a ticket that you never knew you recieved) can seriously cost you tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars come mortgage time...

Parking citations are levied against the vehicle, not a person. They can't touch your credit record or charge you with a crime because all they can show is that your car was in violation, not you. Note the important differences between a parking ticket and a moving violation: your name and signature are on the moving violation, making it a "promise to appear"; a parking ticket has no name or signature, only your car's identification. If you are ticketed and the ticket is stolen, you will get a reminder in the mail, usually in 3-4 weeks. If you ignore those reminders, you'll end up paying at registration renewal time. I once got multiple parking violation notices for a car I had sold months before but the new owner never registered it in his name. Eventually the car was impounded and I got notices that they'd auction it unless I claimed it. Presumably it was auctioned, as I never heard of it again. Nothing went to a collection agency, no court hearings were mandated.

Honestly, I don't know where people get the idea that you can go to jail or have your credit record damaged over a parking ticket .

Re:Doesn't add up

[PalmKiller]

That does not matter, if you do not have the receipt and they carry the item, they will refund it to a gift card, which is why the mention of gift cards in the first place.

Re:Doesn't add up

[SeaFox]

If they were rung up as lower priced items, then wouldn't it show the wrong items on the cash register/receipts?

Yup. Doesn't matter, though. Just check the policy of misscans at any store you go to. Some will give you the item for free if it's below a certain amount. Some will give you a 10% discount on the correct price of the item. But some have to give you the item at the price it scans up at/is shown on the store sign.

For example, when someone finds an item in a bin at Target for one price and then scans up at another (because it wasn't supposed to be there, some lazy shopper just discarded it in the wrong place), if they make their case strongly enough that shopper will probably get the price they thought it was.

They must have not adjusted the prices too low. The cashier would have noticed a TV ringing up at the price of a CD and they probably would not have gotten away with it.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Dolly_Llama]

This is only kharma for the returned products Fry's stocks on their shelves.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

A UPC is basically as valuable as the whole item in the stores view.

No, it isn't. If this were true, stores would sell UPC's not products.

What happened here was minor damage to the packaging of a $20 product, same for a $30 product, and the attempt to commit fraud to purchase a $30 product for $20. That means the amount of attempted theft was $10. The amount of damage was maximally $2 (being very generous as to how much damage is experienced in switching UPC's between two cheap products). Let's round it up to an even $10.

So,
Total attempted theft: $10
Total potential damge: $10
Arguing with another AC on Slashdot about dishonesty in the "public safety" profession: priceless

Re:Doesn't add up

[snorklewacker]

> store policy, it seems for most retail stores is not to do anything to interfere with a customer who is shoplifting, ripping you off, ect.

When it comes to shoplifters, it's a safety thing. There's pathological shoplifters doing it for the thrill, who are harmless once caught, and there are real criminal types, usually boosting high-value merchandise. You let store security deal with shoplifters, and even store security isn't going to use physical force beyond a little grabbing or getting in the way -- they just call the cops.

And believe me, despite the cult mentality Wal-Mart attempts to instill, the cashiers not only don't give a shit, they're secretly rooting for the scammer.

Re:Doesn't add up

[bungalow]

Superbrand Radio $250.00
Superbrand Radio Deluxe $450.00 (same box, same color, except it says "deluxe" and the feature list says "DVD changer" instead of "High-tech design")
Both ring up as "Elecronics/Radio"

Blue Men's tie $14.00 (rayon)
Blue Men's tie $30.00 (silk)
Both ring up as "Men's tie $Price".

In a high volume store, the checkers aren't educated too much about whether the price is correct, especially during peak traffic times. Some may not know silk from rayon, or silk from cotton for that matter.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

You probably saved the cashier from getting some kind of demerit by sneaking it back in, but you really didn't have to do that -- in fact, being "sneaky" will catch the attention of security, while walking in with a wal-mart bag, past the registers, then just taking the item out and going back to the registers, won't make anyone notice.

But owning up to a mistake and fixing it is the better lesson for your son. He was probably just enjoying lording it over you though.

Re:Doesn't add up

[bungalow]

According to the warped Texas laws regarding such things, it is less awful to steal something outright than it is to switch price tags. One is stealing, the other frauud.

IANAL

Re:Doesn't add up

[paganizer]

We have the right to bear arms. or arm bears. I forget.
"A well-regulated force consisting of all able-bodied civilians and female members of the national guard between ages 17 to 45 being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of those same people to keep and bear Arms suitable to an infantry force shall not be infringed"
(the 2nd amendment restated using the expanded definition of what a militia is from U.S. Code, Title 10, Subtitle A, Part 1, Sec. 311)
as we also have the right to defend ourselves with no restriction on weapon used, the rest follows.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

A UPC is used as a "Proof of Purchase" by much of the modernized world. Much like money, it is a certificate that proves you have something.

If you walk into a mattress store and rip the tag off a mattress, you get a worthless mattress. Sure the mattress is still good to sleep on, and sure it could probably even be sold at full price without the blink of an eye, but that's not what is being discussed here.

If you have philosophical differences with our monetary system, well I think that's great, our system sucks.

In our current system it really can be argued that UPCs are sold not the product.
Have you ever bought a car?
Have you ever bought the title to a car?

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard something to the extent that stores use a certain ink which fades away after x amount of days so you don't come back and get a refund.

It's not for that purpose. All thermal prints are like that.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Dogtanian]

A "basic human right" is *not* the same as a "constitutional right".

There's a lot of stuff in the American constitution that I think *should* be considered as basic human rights. The right to bear arms isn't one of them.

Of course, we could have an interesting discussion about what "rights" really are anyway, but I think the distinction above is clear, nevertheless.

Re:Doesn't add up

[PsiPsiStar]

Or at last chance you could be like my girlfriend, loose the recipt and just dress in a miniskirt and a tight shirt and act dingy to the pimply faced associate.

No. No I don't think that'd work for me.

Re:Doesn't add up

[bsane]

Of course the parent said he paid 5.50 for the DVD, and speculated that it would have taken up to an hour. That would make it $25/hr...

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

I read about that happening to a guy with a new Corvette on corvetteforum.com. It cost him $11k in parts and labor to fix the mistake. I only buy oil in sealed cases now.

Re:Doesn't add up

[severoon]

I'm guessing they'd cover the barcode of a $230 DeLonghi toaster with a barcode for a $40 Oster toaster. This is just an example--Wal*Mart, of course, doesn't sell $230 toasters.

Or, perhaps they didn't even switch brands. It's not hard to find two televisions in the same line that differ in price but don't differ in manufacturer, size, etc. I'm guessing if these people makde $1.5M, they had some kind of system.

Still, though, that's a long time standing in line to return stuff...

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Let us not forget it's WalMart that we're talking about. Their IT people are just plain stupid.

I was department manager for Pets. The Telzon is incapable of determining a normal order from a obvious mistake -- people would want to order 100, but since the buttons never worked would end up puttin in 1000. No confirmation screen says "please confirm 1000". So they'd get 1000.

I went on vacation for a week and a minion did the ordering. He decided how many UNITS he needed, and proceeded to order -- using this amount where it was asking for palletes or cases.

I got daily reports for everything else, but never warnings or notifications about unusually high orders.

I came back from vacation to TWO ENTIRE TRAILERS being delivered with JUST cat litter on them.

You'd think a trailer full of cat litter going to a very small WalMart would raise some flags somewhere? Either automagically based on their crazy amounts of data, or at least at the warehouse when someone is packing the truck and says "umm, this ain't right".

Nope.

Yes it should be trivial to have item weights sent to the register, since this data already exists. But if they can't even generate a warning about two trailers full of cat litter, I aint' holding my breath.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Grishnakh]

I agree. The Mom-n-pop stores are hit-or-miss. Some of them are really good, but some of them are really bad. There's no easy way to know which is which. With Wal-Mart, you can go into any Wal-Mart in the country and know that you're going to get the same experience. That experience may be mediocre overall, but you can count on it, instead of having to take a gamble.

The other reason Wal-Mart is very successful in my opinion is because they do something very important for those of us who have to work for a living: they're open at all hours. Most mom-n-pop stores close at 5 or 6PM. Well, I have this thing called a job, so I happen to be at work the same hours those stores are open. Sure, there's lots of people who find these stores' daytime hours convenient, but these people also don't have jobs, and therefore no money. Basically, mom-n-pops are counting on their customers to be retired, housewives, or rich bums. Wal-Mart goes after everyone who has a job, which is a far larger market.

Re:Doesn't add up

[mforbes]

We need a new acronym around here, for posters to remind people like me to "RTFP" (where "P" stands for "Post").

You're absolutely right-- and $25/hr really isn't all that much for a decent IT hack.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

However, in Western Australia you can be personally ticketed as a result of a parking ticket - or an unpaid power or gas bill, for that matter. If you owe money to a State government department (which includes power & gas utilities, as well as fines), and you are delinquent with the payments, they can cancel your drivers license.

If you don't get the letter saying that your license has been cancelled, then you're suddenly driving unlicensed without even knowing it - and the first time a cop checks your license number, you're basically stuffed. This isn't just driving without your license on you (spot fine, slap on wrist) - this is driving unlicensed (potentially jail time, realistically just a large fine unless you annoy the cop).

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

They WILL restock and resell returned merchandise...example: I recently bought a vacuum cleaner there, took it out of the box and lo and behold, it had been used. There was dirt in the bag and the packaging had obviously been opened previously. I took it back to a different (closer) store, and yes, they did take it back. The returns clerk was 'nice enough' to go to the back room and get me a 'guaranteed new' unit that had not yet been stocked on the shelves [and hence not returned before]. The fact that she so willingly volunteered to go the extra mile to get me a for-real new unit is troubling, as though it happens all the time.

Re:Doesn't add up

[trick.one]

Not quite-- Self-defence is not unrestricted as to weapon. If someone is threatening you with a gun, you can shoot them, but if some old lady is tapping you with her cane demanding her loaf of bread back, well.. you cant cut out her jugular and shoot her through the new cavity.

Re:Doesn't add up

[hippycow]

I have never been to Walmart -- there's something evil about the place that has made me steadfastly resist. However, after checking out Playboy's "Girls of Walmart," my resolve did waver a little.

Re:Doesn't add up

[roie_m]

Indeed it's theft, but it's theft of $10 (if it's successful), not of $30.

Damaging an item in a way that can be repaired is also not the same as stealing the whole item. You could argue that the item loses value, depending on what type of damage is done, but not 100% of the value.

If you want to be pedantic, you'l note that the UPC wasn't stolen at all, just moved from place to place. I've moved boxes of cereal around the shelves, did I steal anything?

Re:Doesn't add up

[itwerx]

we put a $20 UPC on a $30 product, but the police report quoted $50 worth of stolen property.

They use the figures given by the store or insurance company, both of which figure labor and other overhead into that quote. (E.g. the time spent talking to the cops etc.)

Re:Doesn't add up

[AK Marc]

Some items have irregular shape, so the volume does not describe the minimum cube that would contain it. I've heard "cube" used to describe a different measure than the actual volume.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

you didn't do very well with "word problems" in school did you?

in a way that can be repaired is also not the same as stealing the whole item
but a UPC that is torn/peeled off cannot be repaired, the $20 product is now used

I've moved boxes of cereal around the shelves, did I steal anything?
if you take a UPC off of a cereal box and then do not buy it, it IS stealing. no matter if you take the product home and use it or if you use it in the store you have made the product "used"

Re:Doesn't add up

[Qacker]

Good post

I just saw that you are a friend, a fan, and a friend of a friend. Never seen all three together before!

Re:Doesn't add up

[generic-man]

Wal-Mart is pushing for RFID as a means of controlling its own inventory and its own supply chain. I haven't read anything to suggest that they'll use it for self-checkout purposes.

But thanks for the handy tips on shoplifting. The next time I want to steal from a company because I feel they're too rich already, I'll remember you.

Re:Doesn't add up

[rebullandvodka]

Word - 20 opened boxes, none new. Hmmm, I guess I'll go look online and wait out the shipping.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

If you work so much that you don't have some spare time to take care of things like this, you are the moron.

Re:Doesn't add up

[T-Ranger]

You own a .45 and you lost an argument? How is that possible?

Re:Doesn't add up

[bryanp]

These days I usually load up on ammo at gun shows. Right now I buy 7.62x39, .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO, .223/5.56, .45ACP, .38spl/.357, and .22lr.

I also have a 9mm and .303 Enfield but both are particularly crappy guns(poor examples of the type, that is) and will probably be gotten rid of soon. The .303 No4Mk2 isn't safe to shoot (receiver is worn down - the bolt won't stay locked down when you fire it), so I may experiment with stripping it down and re-finishing it to turn into a wall-hanger historical piece.

I have my eye on a Spanish FR-8 Mauser bolt action in .308 (jokingly referred to as the world's only bolt-action assault rifle), a SIG P239 9mm, and an old Polytech M-14 clone.

Ironically enough I've bought several "evil" rifles and handguns just to piss off the anti's, but the rifles I enjoy shooting the most all happen to be relatively innocuous. A lever-action in .357 magnum, an old bolt-action Czech vz.24 Mauser that has been rebarelled to .308 Winchester and a Ruger 10/22.

Re:Doesn't add up

[cosmic_0x526179]

I'll give you a couple of more reasons...

5) because the description on the wally world register receipt is horrendously truncated. For one whole year, Home Office (Bentonville) put 'LEGO TOY' as the register description for a large percentage of the LEGO toy items. Regardless of weather it was a $1.99 Bionicle Mask Pack or a big $89.97 Hogwart's Castle. Now how in the hell is the register person going to know if what rings up is correct ?

6) When WalMart does markdowns (either clearances or rollbacks) the physical item does not always get restickered with the garvey gun. Sometimes it is clearanced at a lower price than what the last red/white sticker shows. Only the computer knows for sure.

7) Sometimes overanxious department managers start slashing clearance prices and MISS putting a new price in the hand terminal. But they DO put a lower price sticker on the item. So the customer picks it up, goes to the checkout, it scans at a higher price, the customer points out the red/white price sticker, and the checker (or CSM) has to override it at checkout.

8) Since WM is so linient about taking back stuff, I have heard stories of people buying stuff on clearance at one store (WM or another brand) then returning it to a store that had a higher price on the system. Its illegal, but they do it anyway.

9) Because WM (in their infinite wisdom) keeps local pricing on a per store basis. When something appears to have very low inventory (like 0 or 1) and has not been scanned for a while, they drop the local pricing record. If someone tried to return that item next week, guess what happens... the local store system pulls the master price (MSRP) from home office and suddenly it might be worth more than what they paid for it.

The whole point here is that WM has 100's of thousands and SKUs/UPCs in any given supercenter. There is NO way that any checker can really tell if something is correctly ringing or not. They tend to give preference to the computer and register (unless some customer points out a lower price sticker, see #7 above). I have seen the checker call the CSM who calls the dept manager. They usually huddle and say OK just override it. No one is perfect (about pricing), not even WM. And everything I pointed out above is due to WM errors and the nature of the beast... not a criminal scam.

Re:Doesn't add up

[drawfour]

It's not that there's a federal law against returning ammunition, it's that there's a federal law against reselling it. Minor difference. I had to tell the front desk many times that they should call a Sporting Goods "Associate" immediately upon receiving any returned ammunition so that we could handle it -- otherwise it's easy to just shove all the returned merchandise into a shopping cart and have a cashier restock the merchandise. Of course, all the ammunition was locked away, so they wouldn't be able to return it to the proper place, but during certain times, shotgun shells were out on the open shelf (like before the start of a hunting season).

It's possible that the return policy on ammunition has changed in the store I worked at (store #1629 in Brazil, IN -- god, I still remember the store number!!!!), and maybe management from "above" made certain changes to the return policy. That was 5 years ago that I worked there...

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

1.5 million is the number of employees I heard in a documentary last week..

Re:Doesn't add up

[drawfour]

Yeah. It's a federal law about age requirements for buying certain kinds of ammunition. 21 or over for handguns and handgun ammunition, 18 or older for rifles/shotguns and the associated ammunition. The problem comes with dual-purpose ammunition. .22 and .45 are the two rifles that we sold that also had handgun uses. There was never a question about .22 shells, since .22 rifles are far more popular than .22 handguns, but there was always a dispute about .45 shells, since it's much more common as a handgun. But yeah, every purchase for ammunition that had dual-purpose asked if it was for handgun or rifle, and then the age required changed after the answer.

The law is really stupid, just as the drinking age of 21 is stupid. These 18 year olds can join our military (or be drafted, if a draft were imposed) and are legally held responsible as an adult for all their actions, but they can't drink or own a handgun until they're older, cause the magic age of 21 is automatically so much more mature. (Of course, drinking AND guns should not mix, but age doesn't matter for that!) Just make 21 the legal age to vote, join the military, own guns, etc... or make 18 the legal age for everything.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Firethorn]

I think the usual factor for benefits and such is an extra 50-100%.

If that $7/hour employee gets medical, it could easily cost walmart $14/hour.

Re:Doesn't add up

[geekoid]

of course I won't stop for the 'greeter'.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Just make 21 the legal age to vote, join the military, own guns, etc... or make 18 the legal age for everything.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

• - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Blimbo]

This does seem a bit odd at least.

So you go into a Wall-Mart with no receipt and a product Wall mart does not sell now and never ever had in stock... Then how the heck do they decided how much money to "refund" you ?? Is it a barter session ? or do we check some other stores catalogues, or what ?

This seems more like a fencing operation to me. Drag in a TV you just ripped off get the full cost of it if bought new.

This is a crazy scenario if I ever heard of one....

Re:Doesn't add up

[jesdynf]

I haven't read anything to suggest that they'll use it for self-checkout purposes.

I /have/ -- at least suggestions, if not anything definite. Even so, haven't you read the RFID vendor propaganda? THEY darn well suggest using it for self-checkout.

But thanks for the handy tips on shoplifting. The next time I want to steal from a company because I feel they're too rich already, I'll remember you.

Outlining security flaws in a plan /yet to be deployed/ can only be a service. /My/ employers -- and yours -- might someday have cause to consider something similar. Hopefully you'll remember me then, too.

Anything else?

Re:Doesn't add up

[djplurvert]

What part of copyright law says that you can't return CD and DVDs ?

Re:Doesn't add up

[djplurvert]

That's why I don't bother buying DVDs, I just download em from the net.

Re:Doesn't add up

[vranash]

I actually got one of those the other day at a McDonald's inside the Walmart ;-p Now how's that for staying on topic ;-p

Re:Doesn't add up

[GregoryD]

Many do, many don't care.

Other assholes like me do care and bust you :)

I bust people at least once a week doing this.

Careful, our security is starting to actually care about this fraud now. I might just talk down to you, they might actually do something about it. They are starting to realize how much this is happening. Sure your not doing it with DVD players, but they get bored too.

Re:Doesn't add up

[D0 J00 W4n7 K4r473]

although, they did it too much, and eventually did get caught

This only further proves the three rules of getting away with a crime:

1. Do it big
2. Do it once
3. Don't tell anybody
4. Profit! (sorry, couldn't resist)

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

I once had a camera I bought at Wal*Mart break on me. It was nice to take it back, no questions asked.

Re:Doesn't add up

[instarx]

Your example is extreme and unrealistic. I imaging they would buy a $20-30 item and put a $10 sticker on it. That's a lot of profit without much risk. Even the most asleep cashier would notice a $10 plasma TV.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Stopher2475]

One time I bought an item at a Idaho Walmart (6% tax) and returned it at a Washington Walmart (7% tax), and they gave me the extra. I made something like $0.40 on the transaction!! :) Just keep doing that and you can retire.=)

Re:Doesn't add up

[Raven_Zero]

They changed the price on the barcode not the item. and they used self checkouts. at least that's how I it worked in 2600.

Re:Doesn't add up

[kd4zqe]

Actually, Wal-Mart has their receipts printed with their logo as an invisible UV Watermark on their receipt paper. Try holding it under blacklight sometime... After all, almost everyone has a Wal-Mart ticket somewhere...

Under every Wal-Mart customer service counter is a blacklight to test this if the authenticity of the sales ticket is ever called into question. They even go so far as to store blank receipt paper rolls in a lockbox.

Additionally, on every Wal-Mart ticket, there is a transaction identifying barcode and transaction number. If I remember correctly, they keep the sales record in the database for at least 5 years before it is archived to more permenant storage. In a local legal case, the local court was able to subpeona (sp?) Wal-Mart for a copy of a receipt as evidence to replace a ticket that was faded out after something like 4 years.
______________________________
Paranoia is a state of mine...

Re:Doesn't add up

[NevermindPhreak]

well, most stores will actually send back those items for repackaging. but thats not why i thought the figure was unfair.

one of the security officer said "this thing is worth more than $30 bucks. my nephew got one the other day and paid $50 for it." they essentially try to inflate the price as much as possible, because you have to pay back X times the item price, depending on your state. they also try to force you to try to sign a confession on the spot, keeping you in fear because "you got caught". one of the guys even put my arm in that painful behind-the-back twist move.

stealing is in no way right, but some of the things the security in those major department stores do i think is morally worse.

Re:Doesn't add up

[shufler]

That's fucked up.

One of the things Wal-Mart (Canada) trains their employees is that they are under no circumstances allowed to try and apprehend an alleged shoplifter. This point is driven home even more towards the greeters. If someone goes through the door and the alarm goes off, they are supposed to ask the customer to come back nicely, and not follow them or try and stop them. I'm not sure if this is because they don't want old people beat up, or they fear some sort of assault lawsuit.

I'd imagine this policy might change in the US, depending on the state and store. And it's also possible that security personelle (who are all plain-clothed, so even the blue-smocked wearing drones don't know who they are) are instructed to apprehend shoplifters.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Maestro4k]

• I wish you were at my Wal-Mart. I bought 5 boxes of .45ACP earlier this year, and when I got home one box had magically transformed into .40S&W. (IOW, the clerk stuck the wrong box in the bag and I didn't notice) I took it back and was told that they couldn't accept ammo for a return or exchange and that it was a "federal law" (translation: we don't want to do it).

They didn't lie, but it's probably state, not federal. Here where I am (TN), the state prohibits ammo from being returned after 24 (or 48 one, I forget which) hours. If it's even 1 second past that limit, the clerk could go to jail for taking it back. The system in fact is programmed to enforce this, and even management can NOT override it. When it comes to guns and ammo stuff the laws are really rigid in some states, more lenient in others.

The reason I know this is I worked at the local Wal-mart up till last March, and I did service desk for a while. We had a guy bring back some ammo he wanted to swap, but he came in 6 hours past the return deadline. He wasn't happy, but there was simply nothing we could do. He called corporate from the service desk phone, they told him the same thing: "It's the law, we can't take it back, we're sorry. All we can tell you is call your congressman and complain that they made that the law." In fact he finally got fed up and was going to just leave it and we couldn't let him do that either, he had to take it back out of the store with him, also state law. I never worked sporting goods, but I seem to recall hearing that we can't even donate ammo brought in under the time limit to be swapped to police, it has to be sent off to be destroyed.

So don't blame Wal-mart on that one, they certainly have their problems, but refusing refunds the same day isn't something they do without damned good reason.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting this AC, as who knows what Wal-mart considers "sensitive corporate info" and will get ticked off and try to sue over it being told...

• You must remember that Walmart has a HUGE inventory and for all purposes impossible for any single checkout clerk to be aware of price fluctuations. Couple this with the fact that Walmart awards clerks who are very fast at checking out, and it is apparent that by time the thieves made it to the checkout line it was too late already.

This is very true, and it's shocking how many frontline cashiers have no CLUE what anything in electronics or hardware should cost (two of the top theft departments in the store, electronics is, not surprisingly, pretty much #1 in every store). Even if a cashier is paying attention, if they don't realize that a 5.6Ghz phone shouldn't cost $20, well they aren't going to catch it if the description says "crdless phn" or something similar (and the descriptions by and large are useless for telling if it's the right item).

Also it's not awarding clerks who are fast, it's expected. The minimum corporates wants to see is an average 400 IPH (items per hour) for cashiers. Since it's VERY hard to get 400 or higher on a short register (non-belt), that means if you're on a belt you have to work even harder to average out close to that 400. The only saving grace is that corporate looks at the average of all cashiers before it decides to complain, but local management may jump you if you're at 380 depending on their temperment and how anal they are. (BTW, 400 IPH averages out to a little over one item every 10 seconds, and that is supposed to do you for bagging it, putting it in the buggy (when the customer stands there and refuses to help load their own cart, really annoying when there's a long line, for cashier and customers both), making change, getting signatures, etc.)

There are tricks that help, you'll notice many cashiers will hit a second button after total, usually it'll be the Check tender key. Hitting that stops the timer, since the system assumes the customer needs time to write the check and magnamiously doesn't penalize you for that. They do however penalize you for the time it takes someone to try to remember their PIN number on a debit, so if it takes them 6 tries, you're really in trouble on your IPH. Another one is to never use the quantity key, even if it is allowable and obvious as hell they're all exactly the same. Scan one, hit enter however many times, and you just helped up your IPH because each enter counts as a scan in figuring IPH. If you use the quantity key it counts all of them as one item. (Actually Wal-mart, and pretty much all large chains, discourage using quantity as it's easy to accidentally add one or two into the quantity that have different UPCs, then that screws up the inventory.)

In any case, most of the stuff that really irks customers about checking out at Wal-mart are a direct results of corporate polices demanding too much. Frankly it serves them right that things like this scam happen, if they didn't push having a high IPH so much, cashiers might catch more stuff like this. They need to make sure there's enough cashiers to cover traffic instead of having less there and trying to make them go so fast they can't catch fraud.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually more and more of the big items have them nowadays, there's a hand deactivator that can be used, although it doesn't work as well and the idiots at the factory have a tendency to place them where they're not supposed to be so the cashier doesn't notice them to try to deactivate it.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Trillan]

Here in the Philippines (I'm staying here for a few months), I've caught a few errors. They really don't care. The most I've ever gotten is an offer to let me return the item on the spot, and there was too much hassle involved. So I just shut up and pay the extra $0.10 CDN or so.

This is major western-style super markets, too, not old world stuff.

Re:Doesn't add up

[generic-man]

I'm sorry, but if I want to hear unfounded fearmongering and paranoid speculation about new technologies from people who know nothing about them, I'll watch the news.

Re:Doesn't add up

[jesdynf]

I've either got something useful to say, in which case your second comment doesn't apply, or I don't, in which case your first comment doesn't.

Settle on one, then try again.

Re:Doesn't add up

[MayonakaHa]

Ahh interesting, I didn't know that's how it was configured. But you could just "skip bagging" on the one item you tagged with the lower price.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry. You don't.

I've either got something useful to say, in which case your second comment doesn't apply, or I don't, in which case your first comment doesn't.

Settle on one, then try again.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

I've always wondered why mom&pop stores didn't stay closed 9am-4pm; and just work 4pm-8pm.

seems in those 4 hours they'd make more than the rest of the day.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Grishnakh]

Judging by the huge rush of traffic you see in them from about 5:30 to closing, I think you're right.

Personally, I think it's because they're old-fashioned and self-righteous, and refuse to adapt to modern society.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Feztaa]

Well, it's more clever than asking for change for a million dollar bill. I'll give them that.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Marxist Hacker 42]

If you were working for $8.50/hr as the sole breadwinner and limited to 20 hours a week work, and wondering how your sick child was going to see the doctor without medical insurance, would YOU notice the lower priced items being rung up?

WalMart is the perfect target for this, they don't pay their people enough to notice.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

um they probably picked a real item of similar description to swap the UPC with. And Wal Mart will take almost anything back without a reciept for in store credit, and they can peal off their fake UPC

Re:Doesn't add up

[hamsandwich72]

Do you make money when you're not working? I guess I work for a bunch of bastards, cause they don't pay me squat unless I am in the office doing the work I am assigned.

Point being; you cannot equate salary time with personal time.

Re:Doesn't add up

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything is on sale at walmart. Virtualy nothing is full price. But if there is a theft, by god they are going to report the full price or MSRP. They might have been able to sell that item that was on sale for $30 at $50.

The MSRP of the $50 worth of items may well have been $80. Stolen property from a store is valued at the price when it was stolen. Reporting the MSR instead of the real value would be fraud.

If the items were not for sale (shopping cart, item divider, urinal cake, etc) the MSR may well be the reported value even though the store can buy these things in bulk at less cost.

Generally stolen items are valued at the cost of easily replacing the item (MSR). If stolen property was for sale, the sale price is used because the store did not want to replace the item.

Re:Doesn't add up

[SavoWood]

Indeed it's theft,

Most states have another name for this type of thing. in NC, it's called False Pretense. It's a felony regardless of the amount. Other states put it under the statute for theft and give it a specific moniker. NC and many other states use the False Pretense statute.

wally world

[davidj0228]

too bad they got caught

Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[thewldisntenuff]

One would assume it would be pretty hard for your Joe Sixpack to go out and just print these things willy-nilly. How hard is it to make these things? TFA doesnt say anything, but were they using pre-existing UPCs and copying them, or is it relatively easy to forge/copy UPC codes to ones liking...

Furthermore, Im suprised they werent caught earlier. Itd be pretty damn hard to get those past some sort of return. Hell, I took a DVD back to WalMart after Christmas and they wanted my drivers license number (I left the tin foil hat at home :) ), so one would assume they would have gotten caught sooner.....

-thewldisntenuff

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[idolcrash]

I believe there are programs that do that for you, they have the other products you can search for or something.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Anonymous Coward]

C'mon, it's Walmart! You honestly expect the cashiers to pay attention, when management keeps them under 40 hours, understaffed and underpaid? I can see how this wasn't picked up sooner.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[stupidfoo]

Are you new to computers?

That weird box sitting on your desk is called a "printer". Some of these "printers" can even print "pictures".

Now look at a UPC. It's made up of black lines (the numbers are just for show) which is about the easiest thing to print in the world. Now, look in your desk drawer for "Glue".

I think you can figure it out from there. If not, this topic has been covered ad-nasuem in 2600 for about the past 10 years (or longer?). Hell, skip the computer. You can make them with a black pen if you're bored. I've done so and tested them out when I worked in retail. It's really not that tough.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, UPC's are not serial #'s - the #/UPC bar code is the same for every indentical item.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Frostalicious]

One would assume it would be pretty hard for your Joe Sixpack to go out and just print these things willy-nilly.

All you need is a barcode printer and some software which are publicly available for a few hundred dollars, like from these guys. Get a UPC number off a pack of chewing gum and put the sticker on a mountain bike. The hard part is finding a checker who won't notice. I can't figure out that one.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[broller]

Yes, it's that simple. There are many programs to print UPC barcodes and many legit reasons to do so.

Here's one I've heard of.

Many bargain hunters print up a page of dozens of bar codes for various items. When watching for a price drop, they can enjoy checking prices on the scanners in store without having to go pick up each product. As long as you have the numbers printed below the bar code you can generate the bars easily. Sometimes fellow bargain hunters post specific bar code numbers in forum messages and others will replicate the code to check the price in their local store.

Strangely I was JUST thinking about this type of scam in a store this afternoon. With most big stores in my area going to the self check-out model, I only see this getting worse.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Anonymous Coward]

you dont even need that.

Scan in a tiff of a barcode of product thats cheaper.

Print said graphic a million times.

profit.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[rzebram]

It's incredibly easy, sometimes trivial, depending on the type of barcode. For example, Code 39 barcodes (not quite sure about any other ones, anybody else know?) are implemented using only a font, so all you have to do is type in some numbers and print it out on a label.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[cmallinson]

Get a UPC number off a pack of chewing gum and put the sticker on a mountain bike. The hard part is finding a checker who won't notice. I can't figure out that one.

I think the cashier would notice you paying for the plasma TV with a $5 bill. That's what differentiates dumb criminals, and the ones you don't usually find out about. You don't swap the code from a $1 item with 1 $3000 item. You take the sticker off a 17 inch lcd, and put it on a 19 inch one. I wouldn't even put the sticker on there permanently. It just has to be the first sticker the cashier sees. Once it's scanned, get rid of the evidence. Walmart is the perfect place to do this. They sell everything, and pay their people nothing, so the cashier will likely not have a clue what you are doing.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[OverlordQ]

You definately wouldn't make a good thief. I dont think they were *that* stupid, especially if they did this for 10 years. What I'm guessing what they would do is find very similar items, that at a quick glance look the same, and slap their modified barcode on the more expensive item, and/or slap a higher price on the cheaper item. I mean I dont know about you but most cashiers just ring the stuff up, they dont analyze every single item they ring up. They just want to hear that *beeeeep*

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Self checkout will prevent this. Every self checkout machine I've seen makes you put the item on a scale after you scan it and it knows the weight of each item. If you put your keys on the bagging area, it will complain, if you have the Kleenex leaning partially off the scale, it will complain. Unless you use prices for cheaper items with the same weight (RAM would probably work in most instances) self checkout won't work, while end-of-shift cashier will.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Jasonv]

I'm guessing you find a high-end sony DVD player with all the latest options, and stick on bar code for the $89.99 DVD on special.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[belmolis]

Since the information is being processed by a computer anyhow, can't they prevent fraud by encrypting the information represented by the barcode? That would prevent people from simply printing up their own tags. Of course, they could look around the store for something with the price they want and copy that tag, but at least that would cost them an extra trip to the store. And this tactic could be dealt with by combining the price and product code information before encryption so that even if someone copied a tag with the right price it wouldn't have the right product code.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[TCM]

UPC

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Naikrovek]

It is very easy: http://search.cpan.org/~kwitknr/GD-Barcode-1.15/Ba rcode.pm

especially easy if you know Perl...

It would be rediculously easy to take this, make it a CGI webpage, and publish it for the world to use.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Z00L00K]

Not many cashiers really thinks about what they are selling in a supermarket. "red box, red box, green box, blue box, cucumber, thingamajing, blob... etc..."

So if a box that normally costs $225 is sold for $65, they actually don't notice (in most cases). Same goes for things like meat that is sold on a weight basis, where the UPC/EAN code contains the actual price instead.

I have had an idea about changing the barcode on a box of cornflakes and set a barcode pricing it to about $100 or so and then try to see the reaction, but the hard thing is to first apply the label and then track the box. A typical candid camera trick!

In my opinion, this is only the tip of an iceberg. I'm not at all surprised, and this is probably occuring on a daily basis. On the other hand, some vendors are trying to rip off their customers too.

---
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." - Lazarus Long

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[zakezuke]

TFA doesnt say anything, but were they using pre-existing UPCs and copying them, or is it relatively easy to forge/copy UPC codes to ones liking

I've been meaning to research this issue. When I print off coupons from the store's website, the checkers get annoyed with the fact they don't scan. I know I can print off barcodes, but I don't have the same style barcode as UPC uses, I have something called 3 of 9. The last time I looked into it software and fonts for anything like UPC required a massive license fee.

I've used 3 of 9 in small libraries. It worked very well from a 600dpi laser, well from a 300dpi laser, and OK from an inkjet. In theory you can get fonts that automaticly calculate checksums for UPC and ISBN.

I would imagine that joe six pack just used their inkjet and got some software to make UPC barcodes, slapped them on packages and let the checker scan them.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[broller]

Good point, except for the fatal flaw in the system: Every single time I've seen an error with the weight, which is usually about once per trip to the grocery self-checkout, the human manning the guard station monitor just blindly hits the override. This is the same as the end-of-shift cashier exploit, but slightly easier. With one sleepy cashier in charge of four or more scanners in most cases, it would be easy to set up a distraction on one of the other scanners to get their attention away from you and increase the chances of them blindly hitting the override. This becomes difficult with multiple items.

Items too large to put on the scanner (tv's, etc) would work best, since you can tell the machine you can't fit it in the bags and leave it in the cart. The trick would be finding something large enough to bypass the size\weight limit without spending all of your profit away paying for large items. Those $25 microwaves on a $400 DVD player sound like a good work around.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[zakezuke]

The hard part is finding a checker who won't notice. I can't figure out that one. Get a UPC number off a pack of chewing gum and put the sticker on a mountain bike

Perhaps you have more observant checkers then I do. My experence has been they are brain dead zombies that drag an item across the scanner and wait for a beep. Sometimes when it beeps error they don't notice. They don't bother to look at the screen to see the item description and sometimes using the hand scanner they accidently scan in everything around you including the stuff on the impulse buy rack.

While I have never tried to buy a mountain bike for the price of a pack of gum, it wouldn't shock me if someone else has tried and it worked.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since the information is being processed by a computer anyhow, can't they prevent fraud by encrypting the information represented by the barcode?

Barcodes are normally printed by the manufacturer so they already sorta do this. 12345678 in Wal-Mart may mean something completely different than 12345678 in Target. Reprinting a bar code for every product every time you change the price wouldn't work for these large stores. With the current system of standardized codes, you can change the number in the computer and every copy of that product in the store gets updated, even the one hiding in some other department.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can also make and print barcodes in *nix using opensource software too.
Ex:
http://www.gnu.org/software/barcode/barcode.html
http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/barcode.h tm

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Anonymous Coward]

He's talking about the scheme walmart uses for barcodes. What numbers mean what. For example, barcodes used in super marktets here in Japan usually have country codes (russian king crab, israeli sweetie, australian beef, etc.). Of course there are also product codes, prices, etc. The creation of the bars that relate to the numbers isn't difficult, what you need to know is how those numbers are broken down and what each digit relates to.

Lets say I purchased a sweetie (my favorite fruit) with a fake barcode and didn't know the scheme. So I make my barcode say the sweetie is from russia, which would be impossible. Since the databases are already seperated by country of origin there would not ba a database entry for sweeties from russia. Obviously it wouldn't fly.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Nyder]

The self service at the Qfc (Quality Food Center, chain of grocery stores) has self-check, and you do not have to put the items on the scale after you scan them. You only have to put stuff you need to weigh on the scale. But there is a camera pointed at where you scan, and both a picture and what you scan is on at monitor at an cashier station. You need to give them coupons, and they check ID for alcohol, but other then that, it's all automatic. I'll spend 2 minutes time, probably max. scan my items, and pay cash or card. done. don't know why people bother standing in line for a few items.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[deimtee]

It's not quite that simple. Most linear barcodes can be implemented using only a font, but you can't just type in the number and change the font. There are start and stop codes of (I think) 3 digits, and each code digit is encoded as 3 characters to get the number of lines on the barcode.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[__aafkqj3628]

The hard part is finding a checker who won't notice. I can't figure out that one.

It's the guy that looks like he hates his job and can't wait to get home to his miserably boring life.

And this is Wal-Mart.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[TiredGamer]

The actual number is used by employees to relocate goods to their proper place as well as stocking empty shelves. Most stores lock up inventory scanners because only department managers should have direct access to inventory systems.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually businesses have started sharing return data using your drivers license number. Kmart asked me, I gave it to them, but I was wondering curious why in the hell they would need that, its a breach of privacy.

I saw on the news the next day that someone couldn't return an item to a store because of this new ridiculous scheme.

So if you want to return something give them a realistic sounding driver's license number.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Anonymous Coward]

here are a few articles that explain this further:

http://news.google.com/news?q=crack%20down%20on% 20 returns&num=20&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wn

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20041228 /n ews_1b28returns.html

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1229/5140694. ht ml

http://www.wfsb.com/Global/story.asp?S=2639487&n av =1VGmTkac

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[xchino]

"All you need is a barcode printer "

No barcode printer necessary. A regular run of the mill printer will print barcodes just fine. I did this a few years ago when I was archiving my media collection, some of the items didn't have a UPC printed on the case or media so I had to print my own. If I was able to print with an old canon bubbljet and read with a cheap (free actually) CueCat
then I'm sure they could do the same.

"some software which are publicly available for a few hundred dollars"

There are several barcode generators available online for free. There is even a database of UPC's available here, which is fairly extensive, I tried picking random things with barcodes up once, and it recognized almost all of them.

"The hard part is finding a checker who won't notice. I can't figure out that one."

If you've been to a walmart recently you've probably notice they now have self check out lines, you just scan your items, it calcualtes your charge and you can pay with cash or credit. I can see very easily how you could get away with it.

I found it interesting that I could actually read barcodes directly off my screen, though it often took a few swipes. But it goes to show that barcode readers aren't really that finicky about reading barcodes.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[jridley]

Yup, UPC codes are just 3-of-9 1D barcodes. Heck, I wrote a library to print them out of our companys software in about 4 hours with about 20 minutes research on google. Give me some graph paper and the number printed under the barcode and I'll draw them by hand.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[MooseGuy529]

It is horribly simple. You can find the spec for the barcodes online and, given a proper number, generate the barcode. I once wrote a barcode generator for my TI-89, but unfortunately never got to test it.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Ratbert42]

One of my college roommates did this years ago. He just cut out and photocopied a bunch of Budweiser barcodes onto sticky labels. Then he'd go to Kroger and stick one on some Heineken and hit some 16 year old cashier for a nice discount. Joe Sixpack could absolutely do this. Anyone with a photocopier, a gluestick, and some balls could.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Anonymous Coward]

nah probebly closer to this:

1. Buy low priced item and keep reciept.
2. Reproduce UPC and afix it to like high priced item.
3. "Purchace" high priced (newly reafixed UPC) item.
4. Return low price UPC'd item with orig recipt.
5. Sell "purchaced" high priced item on ebay.
6. Profit!

Or for the hard of thoes in search of a punchline:

1. Buy cheepy.
2. ?????
3. PROFIT!!!!!

Too bad I didn't think of this sooner... should I include them as sources when pulling this off at my local Best Buy???

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Skater]

Here in the US, there's only one barcode system, the UPC (Universal Product Code, if memory serves). The first five digits are the manufacturer, and the second five are the product id number. This scam would be really, really easy to do in the US.

There are some exceptions: some products only have a short 5 or 6 digit bar code because they don't have room for the full 10 digit code. Also, deli-counter items use a slightly different system that incorporates the price.

--RJ

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Misch]

Actually, they use the same system, it's just that there's a "reserved" set of codes that are used for custom applications. Stores use this range for in-store weighed products.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[multiplexo]

One would assume it would be pretty hard for your Joe Sixpack to go out and just print these things willy-nilly. How hard is it to make these things? TFA doesnt say anything, but were they using pre-existing UPCs and copying them, or is it relatively easy to forge/copy UPC codes to ones liking...

And one would be totally wrong. Bar codes are dead easy to print, printing two dimensional bar codes such as code 3 of 9 can be printed out with a friggin dot-matrix printer, they won't even tax a modern printer, three dimensional codes such as the ones that UPS uses might require a laser printer or a good inkjet, but certainly not one with more than 300dpi resolution. Next time you order something from Amazon check out the slip that comes in the box. This packing slip, or "p-slip" in Amazon terminology, comes complete with a bar code which, when I was there, were printed out, en-masse, by standard HP LaserJet printers.

Of course this does make some fun things possible. If you just want to fuck with Wal-Mart you could go into their stores with pre-printed bar codes and start repricing items and then leave. Whoo-Hoo! MP3 players for $1.99. DVD's for 75 cents, and since you don't find a whole lot of Jeopardy champions working the registers there you could probably cause a lot of damage to them without much effort.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[Skater]

Arguing a pedantic point here, but since you brought it up:
since weighed products don't follow the 5-digit manufacturer and 5-digit product code scheme, it *is* a slighty different system than what I described.

--RJ

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[SwimsWithTheFishes]

Ok so for Joe Six-pack it goes something like: 1. Google UPC printing 2. Print new UPC 3. Get glue from desk 4. Eat/sniff glue 5. .... 6. Sleep for a week!

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[whiskeypete]

Yes, there is a scale for you to weigh your tomatoes. But there is also a scale built into the bagging tray. That way you don't scan a can of cat food and bag a Filet Mignon.

Re:Is it that simple to make UPC codes?

[k4_pacific]

Actually, there are twelve digits. The outer two are small and printed away from the two blocks of 5 digits each, but they are represented in the bars nonetheless. The first is called the system code, and is generally zero. The next five are the manufacturer, the last five are for the product and the final one is a check digit. the check digit is computed by adding the odd digits, multiplying by three, then adding the even digits and taking the remainder after dividing by 10.

The short bar codes are actually 8 digits, with a system code and check digit as before. These are expandable into 12 digit UPCs as explained here:
http://www.barcodeisland.com/upce.phtml

SNL

[Zorilla]

I think these guys were watching too many Saturday Night Live faux commercials.

Oh, well. At least they weren't selling Bass-O-Matic '76s on the internet.

Re:SNL

[Anonymous Coward]

"...And after five or ten fish, it gets to be quite a rush!"

Im guilty too

[Anonymous Coward]

I have done this at home depot on electrical and plumbing items but I use the upc's off other cheaper items.

Re:Im guilty too

[squatex]

Hooray for you!
Seriously, I just dont understand this kind of petty theft. Why the hell would you even do something like this? How much are you really talking about saving here?
Even the individuals mentioned in the article: There are easier ways (and probably more profitable too) to make that kind of money.

Re:Im guilty too

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Maybe the point isn't to make money. Maybe the point is to rip off a big faceless corporation that is seen as having WAY too much profit for what they do.

Theft isn't always about profit- especially for a system like capitalism full of have-nots.

LOL

[opweirdisntit]

No matter how stupid it all is in the big picture(tm) thats a pretty smart operation LOL:P Although any dimwit with half a brain should have caught it on their reciept-assuming theres an inconsistancy other than the price of the item...

relapse

[pronobozo]

I have heard of this before. There use to be some websites with a upc code database. here's a wired article on it http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,58501,00 .html

Re:relapse

[SuperIceBoy]

Like http://www.upcdatabase.com/?

This just in!

[teknokracy]

1.5 billion dollar scheme bilks American consumers - Wal Mart allegedly is selling crappy items for money!

Re:This just in!

[Associate]

I can't get to Fark here from work. But I bet their headline for this is way funnier. It couldn't have happened to a nicer company.

Re:This just in!

[Ajmuller]

Actually, fark doesn't seem to have picked it up yet.

not that surprising....

[Vash_066]

I've bought stuff at walmart and the cashier has gone so far as to toss stuff over the scanner with out it being rung up. You just have to go in at the right time. If you can find a cashier thats rushing thru the customers and not paying attention you could probably pull this off very easily. And I've had a few friends return stuff they didn't even buy at walmart and get cash or store credit. Same thing applies...just wait till they are busy.

Will RFID help them out of this ??

[Nikker]

Now with all the contreversy will they be safe once it all runs on RFID?

Or will we all be able to do the same just from outside the store ??

Re:Will RFID help them out of this ??

[Anonymous Coward]

> Now with all the contreversy will they be safe once it all runs on RFID?

Uh, no. Unless you yourself work the cash register, I doubt further abstracting the misfortunate human ignorami staffing their cash registers is going to make them more effective against high-tech thieves.

Disclaimer: I am biased, I believe Wal-Mart is evil.

Re:Will RFID help them out of this ??

[Anonymous Coward]

>Or will we all be able to do the same just from outside the store ??

what the fuck are you talking about?

oh noes! you're on the internet! quick, turn off your monitor before someone starts watching you through your browser!!!!1

Re:Will RFID help them out of this ??

[swv3752]

No. It just takes a more intelligent thief. It was already mentioned in another thread about putting rfids in a faraday cage.

There was a slashdot article before on how easy it was to zap rfid and make them useless. Combine with a rfid encoder and you have the same scam.

Re:Will RFID help them out of this ??

[Create an Account]

Actually, I just read that several of their suppliers have started to resist the rfid implementation because of cost and poor performance. I think they said that the rfids were only getting about 60% accuracy.

idiots + crime = caught

[FuturePastNow]

returned it for refunds or store gift cards that also were sold

That's how they got caught. This was actually a fairly original idea; if they'd used it very sparingly, and only kept the items for themselves, they most likely would never have been caught at it. Most criminals' undoing is in not knowing when to stop.

Re:idiots + crime = caught

[robslimo]

Most criminals' undoing is in not knowing when to stop.

That and that these folks had too many accomplices. Let's say the original 4 people decided they had stolen enough and got out. Guaranteed, there will be others who won't quit, will get caught and sure as shootin, they'll rat out anyone else they know who is or was involved.

Oh, well. Them's the breaks in a life of crime.

Re:idiots + crime = caught

[Trillan]

I was thinking the same thing with the Warez story when someone thought it seemed unlikely the person was sitting on $50 million in stock.

Re:idiots + crime = caught

[dosius]

Props to anyone who can obtain the original quote but it goes back to William Shakespeare (I do recall spying it in one of his plays but for the life of me cannot recall WHICH play): Two may keep a secret if one is dead.

Moll.

Re:idiots + crime = caught

[Anonymous Coward]

fairly original???

do you live under a rock or what? - I worked at wal-mart in college back in 91 and it was OLD hat way back then. the more competent managers (in short supply at wally world) train cashiers to watch for that sort of thing

not that the average minimum wage cashier even cares - bought three 400 gig drives at compusa on christmas eve and the yutz only charged me for 2

Re:idiots + crime = caught

[kakos]

The original quote is "Three can keep a secret if two are dead." and it has always been attributed to Ben Franklin... or maybe it was Poor Richard. I can never remember which one.

Re:idiots + crime = caught

[__aafkqj3628]

Romeo & Juliet, Act 2, Scene 4 -

Nurse
Is your man secret? Did you ne'er hear say,
Two may keep counsel, putting one away?

Re:idiots + crime = caught

[dsparil]

"Two may keep a secret if one of them is dead" is from Poor Richard's Almanac by Ben Franklin.

Re:idiots + crime = caught

[vdthemyk]

Kinda makes you wonder why. If they buy it anywhere, they can sell it on eBay for profit. Then, no returns, no tracking, and no way that anyone would ever link back to you through another theft....contimplating a life of crime....

Re:idiots + crime = caught

[dosius]

That is the quote.

Other people have replied attributing it to Ben Franklin, but this being the older quote is the more original. ("Two may keep a secret if one is dead" is a paraphrase of this.)

Moll.

Re:idiots + crime = caught

[tootlemonde]

Other people have replied attributing it to Ben Franklin, but this being the older quote is the more original.

The quote from Poor Richard's is: "Three may keep a Secret, if two of them are dead."

This quote goes back to Chaucer: "For iii may keep a counsel if twain be away."

A contemporary of Shakespeare, John Heywood also used a version of the Chaucer quote ("Three may keepe counsayle, if two be away") in his collection of proverbs (1562). The nurse in Romeo and Juliet presumably misquotes a proverb that would probably be familiar to the audience.

Shakespeare also wrote something similar in Titus Andronicus, act iv. sc. 2.:

The empress, the midwife, and yourself:
Two may keep counsel when the third's away:

Chaucer and Heywood could have been quoting a common saying so it's hard to know where Shakespeare may have heard it.

Use similar items

[jamesbulman]

This works if you put new barcodes on for similar (but cheaper) items. For example, stick the barcode for a Sony ultra-cheapo DVD player on a Sony top-of-the-range DVD player. No checkout assistant is going to notice/care.

Re:Use similar items

[Anonymous Coward]

I once thought about the potential power that was held in a simple sharpie. If one could understand the pattern behind barcodes and how they corespond to the numbers, then it would be theoretically possible to change a UPC barcode with a sharpie. I had this brilliant idea of screwing with wal-mart or some department store by changing barcodes to something similar but cheaper, with nothing but a sharpie.

Before I learned the patterns, i got bored and became very busy with school. Needless to say, my sharpie adventure never took place.

Re:Use similar items

[Anonymous Coward]

While this not certainly impossible the standard UPC is actually fairly sharpie-resistant. First, the bands are either wide or narrow, but with a sharpie all you can do is make narrow bands wide. Moreover, the encoding switches from black on white to white on black in the middle, so the scanner can easily determine which direction it's reading. This means that you'll have to find the mid-point of the code and change your method from making narrow black bands wide to making wide white bands narrow. Again, possibly but annoying to say the least.

Another problem is the design of the numbering scheme. The first half of the number is assigned per-manufacturer in an orderly fashion. The second half is supposed to be randomly assigne for each product (as opposed to matching the model number). Therefore you'll probably want to change the last half, and you'd have to know another UPC that existed in the POS system, or the item wouldn't scan. And you'd have to be able to make that change simply by adding black lines.

Another problem comes from the embeded checksum (for detecting read errors, not tampering). You'd not only have to create a new code that existed in the POS system but you'd have to find one that either had the same check-digit (1/10 chance) or that had a check-digit that could be adjusted simply by adding black lines.

In short, just print new lables. It'll save you a lot of time.

Re:Use similar items

[GregoryD]

Funny you mentioned that,

I caught a gentleman doing this exact thing. You should have seen his face as the police arrested him and his girlfriend.

He tried it with a DVD recorder and a cheapo DVD player.

I got 50 bucks for it too.

/no lie

done in by greed

[circletimessquare]

it's hard to stop using a drug, from quitting a winning streak at the casino, from selling a rising stock, or from successfully bilking walmart of over hundreds of thousands of dollars over the span of a decade

the greatest enemy to a criminal or anybody on a power trip is himself

kid's play

[thetzar]

I did this when I was about 8 years old; swapped the price tag for one thing that I could afford (that was like $1) over another which I wanted (which was like $5). The sales drone didn't notice, but the guilt was enough to keep me from doing it again.

Fancier bells and whistles, but this is the same thing. It'll be interesting to see how they pulled off bilking one of the defining features of UPC codes which I didn't have to deal with: When scanned, the register should display a description of the product. The answer was probably lazy/unmotivated register drones. Some things never change.

Re:kid's play

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing like signing your name in your sig after admitting to a misdomeanor (sp?)

Re:kid's play

[Anonymous Coward]

and they say that New Yorker's are all crooks. why is that?

Re:kid's play

[Anonymous Coward]

And what is the statute of limitations on this crime? I'm sure it's way to late to prosecute, but running for president may be out...

Bebeep!

[trs9000]

what kind of television is this? Bebeep! oh oh its a... toaster....? huh... oh man is that a ten-speed? Bebeep!... no.. huh... tricycle... Oh.... alright a Lindows machine!!.... Bebeep!... n-no?.... i see... 5 gallon jar of pickles....

Re:Bebeep!

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Only an idiot would swap with a radically different product. More likely- $400 DVD Player swaped with $29.95 DVD Player on special. Wal*Mart is perfect for this- the Rollback price is always a loss leader, and it's sitting right next to the same product with a 40% markup.

Too bad Re-code.com isn't still around!

[cdf12345]

I saw the guys who did Re-code.com at 2600's 5th hope this summer in NYC. Basically you could create a barcode for any item, and print them.

Finally they closed down because of pressure from walmart and huge legal fees needed to fight them.

But they got their point across, so I could see someone doing this quite easily. Now I'm wondering how they got caught.

I think the best thing to do it go to a walmart and just sticker random items, so that random people are buying the altered items.

There's a 10 min video on Re-code.com about the case. It's worth a quick viewing.
Seems like a way to say "I didnt put the sticker there!"

Re:Too bad Re-code.com isn't still around!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the best thing to do it go to a walmart and just sticker random items, so that random people are buying the altered items.

Statement is true, for strange values of "best".

Re:Too bad Re-code.com isn't still around!

[DustMagnet]

The days are too short. Slashdot isn't real to me. Best A.C. in years.

Re:Too bad Re-code.com isn't still around!

[zoeblade]

I saw the guys who did Re-code.com at 2600's 5th hope this summer in NYC.

You can hear their speech here.

Re:Too bad Re-code.com isn't still around!

[cookie_cutter]

archive.org people!!!

Re:Too bad Re-code.com isn't still around!

[Breakfast Pants]

Archive.org can't exactly mirror the dynamic code that generated barcodes which used to be on their site. It was server side code, you gave it an item, it returned an image of the barcode.

Re:Too bad Re-code.com isn't still around!

[Maestro4k]

• I think the best thing to do it go to a walmart and just sticker random items, so that random people are buying the altered items.

If this type of fraud becomes more commonplace that will start happening, not on purpose, but by accident.

Right now you'll notice cashiers check inside items like purses/backpacks/coolers/etc. to see if anything's inside. 99% of the time when you find something, the customer didn't put it there, and it's obvious (you can tell when someone's pretending to be shocked). Crooks will stick things in them, then something scares them, they think they were seen or something and ditch the item. It gets put back up eventually, no one thinks to look in it when put out returns, and eventually a perfectly innocent customer gets mortally embarassed. The same thing would happen with the UPCs, crook sticks it on, gets spooked, and it ends up getting bought by an unsuspecting customer later on.

Self-checkout fraud possible

[turtlboy]

I worked at a Wal-Mart for a while as a cashier. Our store had 4 self-checkout machines where you ring up the items yourself. One cashier was assigned to "Paystation" where people could pay with checks, and other assorted stuff the machines couldn't handle. When working at the Paystation, you were given a barcode card which when scanned would bring up an admin-like menu with price override options and other assorted "cashier" tasks. At one point, I scanned that barcode at my register, printed a receipt to show the number it represented, took that home and recreated it on my computer and printed a new version. I taped it on the back of my name tag, and it worked like a charm. Here's the scary thing: Cash Office also used a barcode for those machines to refund money, etc. They could literally empty the machine of cash with their card. If one took a picture of their card (which usually was worn around the neck in plain sight), it wouldn't be hard to recreate the bar code without knowing the numbers. Talk about fraud potential... I almost wanted to do it as a proof-of-concept, but thought that just being caught with the barcode would get me in big trouble, so I didn't end up trying.

Re:Self-checkout fraud possible

[Anonymous Coward]

The Tesco's (UK) supermarket near me has recently installed 3 lanes of these self checkout machines but the items are weighed after being scanned and the machine will refuse to proceed if the weight doesn't match up to what its expecting.

Re:Self-checkout fraud possible

[Anonymous Coward]

that might help some... but how accurate can it be? I'm sure alot of product lines have 'average' and 'top shelf' items that are almost identical, except maybe a diffrent lens... micro chip... etc.

Re:Self-checkout fraud possible

[Anonymous Coward]

You just buy a 2GB sandisk CF card and mark it as a 64MB card

or buy some PS2 games and mark them as bargain games

etc

There are more than a few identical weight products that would allow you to get around that, not to mention the fact that all the weight systems I've seen are awkward and don't handle bulky items. If you had something large and/or oddly shaped, they just clear it without even looking at what it is.

Re:Self-checkout fraud possible

[Bluedove]

You just buy a 2GB sandisk CF card and mark it as a 64MB card [...snip...] There are more than a few identical weight products that would allow you to get around that

Be careful. In the example of the 2GB/64MB switch, how did they implement the difference? Did they shrink the die, add more cores, add more chips? The supermarket scale that measured my big bag of shaved lunchmeat is accurate to at least one gram. You may find that the 2GB/64MB difference is detectable by the checkout scale.

Re:Self-checkout fraud possible

[Rie Beam]

The Self-Checkout system has always struck me as a bit abusable. One thing I've always noticed at my local check-out station is the ability to cancel a purchase midway through - of course it requires the approval of the cashier at the machine, but they usually don't give a damn. Maybe I'm ignorant, but if you cancel the purchase after scanning half of your items, what are you left with? Are the items technically "purchased", or is there some kind of de-activation scheme on those items I'm not aware of?

Re:Self-checkout fraud possible

[drawfour]

Since you don't pay until the end, nothing is "technically purchased". All you have to do is store the barcodes from the scanned items in memory, then once the credit card/cash/check transaction is approved, you commit those barcodes as a transaction, subtract one from the in-store inventory tracker for each item in that list, and there you go. Cancel the transaction halfway through, just delete the list you were storing and forget about it. It's up to the clerks/loss prevention people to keep people from walking out with it.

Re:Self-checkout fraud possible

[Anonymous Coward]

"transactions". look 'em up. or perhaps a half-assed explaination will help:

your entire purchase is a transaction. As you scan things, the register builds the list of items, running total, etc. When you tender payment, it closes the transaction, sends it "home" (store database probably), and gets a number to put on your receipt, which is then printed for you to use as evidence when you quarrel with the greeters over wether or not you actually paid for a "battlefield earth" DVD.

Until the receipt number is issued, nothing happens to inventory or accounting; allowing you to cancel your cart full of cheetos and dr pepper without causing their poor computers any overwork. The poor people who have to put shit back on the shelves and wipe your greasy fingerprints off the merchandise, well, who cares? they work at walmart, to hell with 'em.

Re:Self-checkout fraud possible

[Anonymous Coward]

in this example, the product itself is likely exactly identical in weight, the difference lies in how fine the printing on the silicon is.

of course they could be smart enough to package the cards differently... And of course at walmart anything over a certain set value requires a "security tape" which means someone at the department has to apply said tape, and announce the fact over the PA, someone post-cashiers has to remove the tape and enter that into some system, and the cameras (and possibly security people and/or bored stockers) have to follow you around.

Fun fact: you're not allowed to carry guns out of the store yourself. The temptation to clear out a checkout lane might be overwhelming otherwise, i guess.

Re:Self-checkout fraud possible

[mochan_s]

Yeah, our local store also has that. It alerts the cashier. The cashier without looking always accepts it.

Re:Self-checkout fraud possible

[geekoid]

if you remember, slashdot poswted a link to an article that tlaked about rfid.
The jist of it was people didn't like it, so they came up with a plan to bet consumers used to it.
Enter self checkout.
The ones I use want to press my items against a yellow strip after I scan them. I don't.

If there damn infernal machine starts making noise, I don't stop on the way ot, either.
I am not a thief, and I will not prove my innocents.
I will defend it, however.

Re:Self-checkout fraud possible

[generic-man]

I love using self-checkout for small purchases, but there are cameras everywhere in the self-checkout area. Every "lane" has a camera to detect whether the customer is there (if you walk away for too long, the purchase times out). There are cameras on the ceiling to make sure that people don't just stroll out and bypass the lanes entirely. I imagine that cameras would catch a troublemaker emptying the machine of cash using his barcode card.

Re:Self-checkout fraud possible

[Glendale2x]

The ones I use want to press my items against a yellow strip after I scan them. I don't.

If there damn infernal machine starts making noise, I don't stop on the way ot, either.

Connect the two and you'll figure out why it says to press it on the yellow strip. If you pay attention, you might see a "Sensomatic" logo somewhere on the machine; that's the demagnetizer. Don't be so paranoid.

Put your credit card on it and see what happens if you think it's RFID.

Just one more reason...

[NanoGator]

... to use RFID!!!

(Man I hope people are in good humor today.)

Re:Just one more reason...

[__aafkqj3628]

Then you find devices that just remove/kill the existing RFID and embed a new one. No sign of physical tampering.

Let the buyer be aware!

[Homer's Donuts]

Reminds me of the stories in the early 70's of people changing their utility bills. Bills came printed on punch (IBM, Hollerith) cards.

"Enterprising" students would run them thru keypunch machines and make the number negative or add a decimal point.

These machines are also the origin of the "hanging chad". Always check your input. Like the state of Florida, Walmart could have caught this by auditing returns.

Re:Let the buyer be aware!

[eclectro]

Walmart could have caught this by auditing returns.

I bet that the big RFID push they are making will help them do just that.

Re:Let the buyer be aware!

[fataugie]

I think Johnny Cash sang a song about it...where the utility company kept hounding a guy for a penny or something, so he took the card and took his pocket knife to it, mailed it back and the utility called to aplolgize, it owed him $300 or something.

Re:Let the buyer be aware!

[Bombcar]

There's a story out about a billing error where a company kept sending a bill for $0.00. The final solution worked out by the company was to have the guy write a check for $0.00, which was deposited.

Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Make custom THX1138 T-Shirt (with the bar code cover).
2. ???*
3. Profit!

* Scan your fucking shirt.

It's even simpler than that.

[H0NGK0NGPH00EY]

It's even simpler than that. One summer about 8 years ago when I was in high school, I sat down and decoded the UPCs of a few products in an afternoon. Once you know what the codes are, it's trivial to draw your own bar codes using MS Paint. You can then print them off using any old ink-jet printer. Don't believe me? This is the page that I wrote up after figuring it all out. I made the UPC graphics on that page using just Paint. I also printed off some test barcodes using the cheapo inkjet we had, and ran them by the "price checker" thingys in the local Target. They scanned no problem.

I've wondered for years whether it would really be that easy to get away with switching UPCs just like this. I guess the answer is "pretty easy." Of course, if you get as greedy as these people did, you're obviously going to get caught before too long.

Re:It's even simpler than that.

[H0NGK0NGPH00EY]

Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention. This wasn't available 10 years ago of course, but now you can just write the number under a UPC code down, then go to Google and type it in, and viola, auto-generated UPC graphic, ready for printing. Try it out.

Re:It's even simpler than that.

[mikiN]

*ROAR*

If anything is a dead giveaway, this is it!
Next they might even put a "Print" button next to it (and haggle over licensing with Amazon for 1-Click Barcode Printing)

Re:It's even simpler than that.

[The Cornishman]

That's twice we've had an orchestral string instrument in this thread. En francais, on dit >, n'est-ce pas?

Re:It's even simpler than that.

[Anonymous Coward]

About 15 years ago I wrote some software to print bar codes to a laserjet printer. The task was far from trivial but I was (after a lot of time and debugging) able to print out any UPC bar code. I had a translation table set up whereby I could translate the character/number to the appropriate UPC code. I was also able to (on the fly) print out multiple bar codes on a sheet of paper. The only limitations were the size of the labels that I used.

Anyway I always wanted to experiment and read in the 5 cent code of a can of soda and reproduce them on a set of labels then take these labels and place them on any old thing (say a can) then feed the end product into an automatic bottle deposit/return machine. I bet that the machine would take it.
I also remember calculating the total labor involved and my potential hourly productivity and calculating the potential hourly income. It just wouldn't be worth the work effort. I make a much higher hourly rate in my current job.

However I am sorry that I just never got around to trying it just once. Now I have lost the source code over the years. If only I had tried it I could then brag about it in this forum.

Oh well, if I had to I could create the code again. I do remember that the hardest part was controlling the dot size for the laserjet and the precise placement of the dots on the page.

Re:It's even simpler than that.

[whoopass]

If you read the article, you'd have noticed that these folks weren't caught because of Walmart's employees or secret shoppers. Rather the cops stumbled across the loot and the fence they worked with caughed up these folk's names.

The only conclusion - it's still open season. Better scheme than signing up for Amway.

Wal-Mart, the apotheosis of mediocre consumption-

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhh... Wal Mart, and the mouth-breathing proles who worship consumption.

And if YOU shop at Wal-Mart, shame on you.

Wonder if they got the idea here?

[Swampfeet]

There is a usenet posting on this very subject from 1995.

Re:Wonder if they got the idea here?

[Anonymous Coward]

God, what a bunch of whining losers replying to the guy. Nothing wrong with stealing from the man, especially when you have to feed your kid, or get him a boom box.

It's an obvious idea, but likely quite effective in many situations. Back when I was young and dumb enough to steal shit, cameras weren't prevalent and you'd just have to be sly about it.

Re:Wonder if they got the idea here?

[DarkEdgeX]

God, what a bunch of whining losers replying to the guy.

No shit, obviously the folks replying don't have any future in store security or engineering defenses against being ripped off. They'd rather spend their time crying about it.

Idiots.

They cant afford 2 houses?

[Anonymous Coward]

They stole upwards of a million and a half dollars, and yet all 4 of them lived in one house?

Re:They cant afford 2 houses?

[Anonymous Coward]

i hear banjo music.

Re:They cant afford 2 houses?

[cipher uk]

well at least now they all have seperate rooms/cells.

Statement is true, for strange values of "best".

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. If we adhere to higher principles, then here is a much better example :

"Wal-Mart is the best place to shop".

GOOD policy

[Anonymous Coward]

I love that about walmart. It's because of that that I am a returning customer.

I remember when they tried to force me to use a TI graphing calculator in middle school. I used my HP for the most part, just as long as I had the TI with me the school didn't complain. But I've never had an item break as much as that TI, and each time it broke I just brough it back to Walmart. Seriously, a little bump on part of the screen and the thing would shatter. One broke when I slid the case on at an odd angle. Fuck you TI! I love you Walmart!

Re:GOOD policy

[ArsenneLupin]

And best of all: at the end of the school year you return your TI for good, and buy another HP ;-)

Applies just as well for any other item for which you only have a temporary need.

Re:GOOD policy

[DrMrLordX]

Best Buy could certainly take a few lessons from Wal-Mart.

Re:GOOD policy

[Anonymous Coward]

Best Buy seems to have random policies.
My wife bought The Sims for the PS2 for my kids for Christmas. She tried to return it unopened with a receipt on 12/20, about 5 weeks after she bought it. She was told that since it was bought more then 30 days ago, she would have to wait until after Christmas to return it. What the hell kind of policy is that?

Re:GOOD policy

[Dogtanian]

I remember when they tried to force me to use a TI graphing calculator in middle school.

Uh... that would be a private school, right?

I'd damn well hope it wasn't a state school.

Re:GOOD policy

[EvilFrog]

I dunno, the public high school I went to at the very least strongly encouraged everyone to use a TI-83. While other calculators may have been allowed none of the instructors knew how to use them, and some of the fancier calculators (including some TIs) were not allowed on tests.

In fact, the SATs and the ACTs have limits on the types of calculators you can use on them. I believe you're not allowed to use anything more powerful than a TI-83+.

Re:GOOD policy

[Anonymous Coward]

You can use any calculator "without a QWERTY keyboard" on all the College Board tests (SAT/AP). No idea about ACTs though.

And with regard to the durability of TI calculators, my TI-89 has been running fine for the past 5 years (which is about when I think they came out). I've never had any problems with it.

Re:GOOD policy

[Anonymous Coward]

i believe he was referring to the fact that he had to use a graphing calculator in middle school.

i for one know that i got stuck with a casio...damn casio, most counter-intuitive and under-featured thing i've bought.

Re:GOOD policy

[Anonymous Coward]

Things have come a long long ways since I was refused permission to take my Pickett slide rule into my SAT

Doug S.
Over the hill and feeling it tonight.

Re:GOOD policy

[Anonymous Coward]

No TI-89's on the ACT. I had been expecting to be able to use mine since I could on the SAT, ended up having to borrow someone's spare four-function calculator. =/

Still got a 35 composite score, though, so 's all good.

RTFA

[Anonymous Coward]

The answer is there. Read it.

Dumb Criminals

[Anonymous Coward]

Why even bother with Walmart? Most of their stuff is crap. Gee, I can get $5 piece of crap radio for $3 now! Woohoo!

Did they change the UPC's at the dollar store and Goodwill too?

Mea Culpa

[Anonymous Coward]

I got my TI-85 for like nine dollars by this exact same procedure several years ago... used the code from a $9 calculator, which simply rang up as "calculator" on the short alphanumeric screen.

For extra safety, I chose a toothless 60-year old female cashier (who has no idea there's such a thing as $100 calculator).

The only tricky part is attaching the sticker of your home-printed code, gotta do it where there's no view from the cameras.

Re:Mea Culpa

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you can do it in front of the cameras. Just keep it printed in a pocket or something, peal it off and palm it like you were going to tip for a better table as if you were on a sitcom. Then just slide the sticker over the UPC while shielding the move with your palm and your eyes focused on the back as if carefully considering your purchase. Then smooth it firmly buy fliping the back towards the floor keeping the item between your body and the display. Most of all. Just pretend it's the most natural thing in the world. If you can do that so you believe it, other people will do, you won't look suspicious and they won't even consider what you're doing pretty much no matter how brazen you are with it.

Oh no!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wal-Mart will lose a billionth of a cent off their market cap. now!

Get Laid, Shop WalMart

[zagmar]

Want to get laid? Shop walmart. The girls that work there are DESPERATE and will fuck anything that walks. Hell, put a barcode on THEIR ass.. I'd buy THAT for a dollar!

Re:Get Laid, Shop WalMart

[Anonymous Coward]

this guy speaks the truth ... Walmart is the best place to meet and screw willing and wet, albeit low-IQ highschool graduate, chicks.

Returns of used items

[zagmar]

Return some used condoms, stating that they're defective... tell the clerk that your partner broke them and leaked spooge all in your ass, and you not only want your money back, but some new underwear, too...

However

[iamnotacrook]

You may find detailed instructions on how to do this and not get caught on google. I won't post the search terms here - they are not quite so obvious, and they don't include "barcode" - but you will get them with a little thought.

These guys may have been caught, but I promise you, this is a huge underground industry.

I don't condone it, however.

Re:However

[Anonymous Coward]

what's the search terms asshat

Re:However

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

The guy's more of a troll than you are, don't expect him to post anything.

I think he's just some 13 year old kid.

Why bother?

[Nine Tenths of The W]

$1.5m over 10 years between 4 people=$37500 a year. Call it 80% of that, $30000, as stolen goods never retail for full value, and you have to wonder why they bothered, given that this must have been close to a full time occupation. They'd have done much better to sell the means rather than the goods.

Re:Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably more like something they did on the weekends for quick cash. Given that all four of them lived together.... Well that sets off my junkie detector.

Re:Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

you have to take into account... the number of hours worked also and the type of 'work'. Sounds like a deal... You dig ditches... or program for less than 30k a year... I'd rahter hang with these people see the country and 'work' an average of probaly a few hours a day for my 30k a year. And by work... I mean drive to a store buy/return an item and leave.

Re:Why bother?

[hrvatska]

They may not have had to put in that many hours per week to pull this off. Not a bad income for part time work. Also, consider the possibility that Walmart was only one of many places they plundered. They may also have been ripping off other chain stores. The same system would work at Target, Kmart, etc. $1.5M may just be the tip of the iceberg.

Re:Why bother?

[skaffen42]

Well, they still made more money than the people working at Walmart...

Re:Why bother?

[se2schul]

$30000 under the table is about $60000 of income that is taxed. So, unless they hope to make $60000 per year doing ligitimate work, then $30000 is quite profitable. Remember that a lot of people don't have great earning potential (like a Wal-Mart clert).

Re:Why bother?

[rusty0101]

Well, they still made more money than the people working at Walmart...

both before and after taxes, which they didn't pay, but the people working at Walmart did.

Dude...

[Anonymous Coward]

If cops were good at math, you think they'd be cops? On the flip side of that, if there's a situation where one is in grave danger of getting their ass beat, if they could, do you think it'd be a good plan to call HR Block? No. Thus is downside of specialization in the modern world.

Re:Dude...

[PsiPsiStar]

THe cops always do this. It's deliberate. Run up cost of damages as much as possible

Ummmmm duh!?

[topgun601]

theres a nice aritcal on it in 2600, volume 21, nuber 1 the spring 2004 issue the title of the issue is " The Army needs more BLUEBOXES"a the artical name is "BarCode Tricks" page 25-26 by XlogicX his email address is in the artical but it tells you how barcodes work and how to chage them and offers some ideas on how to chage grapenuts ceral to walffle crisps. it's not a bad read

Re:Ummmmm duh!?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have some other good reads for you.. the Oxford English dictionary or equivalent and a basic grammar book. You seem to be in serious need of both of them.

Living in Texas does not excuse you from knowing things like spelling and punctuation.

it can be done...

[drspin2003]

You could learn about how Walmart barcode their products, and substitute that with a similar item but lower price e.g. $10 *branded item* for a $5 *not so branded item* Perhaps another way is to know if there are discount codes that are embedded into the barcodes and use that. The article says that the couple actually took the items back to Walmart, now that took guts! :) What is interesting is that WalMart has probably the 2nd largest computer systems in US, second only to the Pentagon (according to CNBC) - Realtime data streams in from everywhere and they've got lots of ppl and systems digging through it.

Re:it can be done...

[Lehk228]

walmart does not barcode their products, the manufacturer does, and UPC's do not encode any data other than error correction data for the UPC number, which serves as a unique identifier for each product, anything beyond that is done by the backend database.

HOWTO: print your own barcodes with linux

[lkcl]

1) install debian
2) install a thermal label printer (the dymo 310 is nice)
3) install pbm2wxl if using dym310 (use google to locate)
4) type "apt-get install barcode"
5) run echo thebarcodenumber | barcode | lpr -Pdym310
6) when the local law enforcement agencies come knocking on your door claiming that the GNU barcode program is illegal and subversive software, RUN LIKE HELL!

Re:HOWTO: print your own barcodes with linux

[theLOUDroom]

Actually, there's a really nice KDE app called kbarcode that handles barcodes, label printing, and ties into databases.
And of course there's no reason you can't print barcodes on a normal printer, it's just more work.

Re:HOWTO: print your own barcodes with linux

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

Or just go to this website or any of the other myriad barcode CGIs and print them out.

I even used to have a little barcode generator program for my graphing calculator. Pity that the pixel size was too big for the generated barcodes to be scannable directly from the screen.

Re:HOWTO: print your own barcodes with linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Use gLabels.

Well Done!For SPANISH Speakers -- www.yomango.org

[L.Blissett]

Well done guys. Take a look at this Spanish "organization". Literally it means "I Shoplift"

They are in favour of stealing products from multinationals etc..

http://www.yomango.org/

"ignorami"

[Anonymous Coward]

The correct plural form is ignoramuses. Since ignoramus in Latin is a verb, not a noun, there is no justification for a plural form ending in -i.

http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/arc hi ve/2004/05/08.html

I've been reading an old "Teach Yourself" Latin book. Also, Walmart is evil.

GrimRC

P.S. Notice also, "Synonyms: blockhead, boob, dimwit, dodo, lunkhead, meathead, nitwit." Hehe.

What I would do

[bmantz65]

Slap a UPC off of a $5.50 or $10 DVD there and put it on one of the zillion TV box sets I want. $10 instead of $50? Sure.

Re:What I would do

[GregoryD]

As a cashier, I would notice that pink box, and twice as wide as a normal DVD of the simpsons from my station and catch you. Just because 90 percent of all cashiers are dumb doesn't mean all of us are. /has caught at least 50 people trying this scam and is not suprised

Which makes politicians jump to two conclusions...

[D4C5CE]

• Enforce RFID by insinuating (in the "good" old war-on-terror way of "reasoning") that "concerned customers are just crooks who have something to hide"...
• "To avoid banning home computers", make it compulsory for all software to be approved and electronically signed by M$ or one of a few other megacorps - as hardly anyone believes in the piracy pretext for DRM, "fighting forgeries" comes in handy as the badly-needed new excuse...

All of which helps to make people quite literally buy their own surveillance state, and "elegantly" disposes of Open Source on the way.
For end results cf. "peaceful San Angeles under Dr. Cocteau" in Demolition Man... ;-(

Shady, but probably legal

[Basje]

The pricing on the goods can be constituted as an offer. On accepting the offer, a contract is entered. The new pricing (bar code) can be viewed as a counter-offer. If the cashier accepts, the counter-offer is accepted and a contract is entered, making it a legal sale.

Of course, ethically it is wrong, but legally, it's not done yet.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[jcr]

The new pricing (bar code) can be viewed as a counter-offer. If the cashier accepts, the counter-offer is accepted and a contract is entered, making it a legal sale.

Clever argument, but the chances of a court going along with it are about the same as the proverbial snowball's chance in hell.

-jcr

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[TiredGamer]

Except there is no legal representative of Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. at the time of sale. The cashier is a customer service representative that is aiding you at the time of sale with the computer transaction. The offer of sale is made at the shelf and by completing the transaction at the point-of-sale you are accepting the offer of sale and completing the terms of the contract. At no time can you negotiate the sale unless you approach a Customer Service Manager, in which case you lose any sort of advantage since they are actually semi-knowledgable.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[cpuffer_hammer]

"customer service representative" NO Wal-Mart calls the "associates". Maybe this is a bit of a problem with calling the hired help by to lofty an title.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Nurgled]

By replacing the barcode, you are not saying "I will pay $5 for this microwave oven", you are saying "This microwave oven is a bottle of soda".

I suppose the same argument could apply -- the customer service representative agrees that the oven is a bottle of soda -- but you can't argue that you are offering a lower price for the item because barcodes identify what an item is and not how much an item costs.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[drawfour]

fraud
n.
A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

Last I knew, fraud was illegal...

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Anonymous Coward]

don't be retarded, and it sure as hell is "done".

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[dk.r*nger]

The pricing on the goods can be constituted as an offer. On accepting the offer, a contract is entered. The new pricing (bar code) can be viewed as a counter-offer. If the cashier accepts, the counter-offer is accepted and a contract is entered, making it a legal sale.

No. A barcode isn't just a price, but a code representing an item, which in the cashregister is linked to a price.

If you put the barcode from a pack of chewinggum on a mountainbike, the barcode still represents the offering of gum at $0.77, and that is the offer the contract is concerning. The fact that you are carrying a $300 bike out of the store is just theft.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Laebshade]

Except that the other party, if given the chance, would probably reject the counter-offer; this offer was made with no knowledge of the other party, therefore any transaction made in such matter is null and void.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Quixote]

you are saying "This microwave oven is a bottle of soda".

It's a Jedi mind trick.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[worf_mo]

You, sir, are a real /. veteran and know what your audience wants to hear.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Anonymous Coward]

BULLCRAP.

Under UK common law, displaying a price on the goods is not an offer in itself and is incapable of acceptance. It is a mere *invitation to offer*. So, what happens is that the shopper looks at the price tag and then makes an offer to the shopkeeper to buy the goods at that price. It is left to the shopkeeper to either accept or reject such an offer.

UK common law is more less the basis for contract acts of all commonwealth countries. I have no idea about US contract law, but is suppose it should be on similar grounds.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

Theft? You gave them money. The person at the register should have noticed that the bike rang up as "JuicyFruit" instead of "Huffy" and I would call that an error in your favor.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Hognoxious]

The offer of sale is made at the shelf and by completing the transaction at the point-of-sale you are accepting the offer of sale and completing the terms of the contract.

This is the classic example of an offer to sell - offer to buy - completion case, but it did happen 50 years ago on the other side of the atlantic. Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain v Boots [1952] 2 QB 795

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Senior Frac]

By replacing the barcode, you are not saying "I will pay $5 for this microwave oven", you are saying "This microwave oven is a bottle of soda".

A smart [read: not greedy] thief would do their homework first and put an $80 microwave barcode on a $120 microwave model. The text that displays would be very brief, displaying Microwave Oven or something similar, and would not trigger suspicion with an attentive cashier.

Social observation shows that this type of self-restraint is rarely found among criminals. Greed takes over quickly.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[bert.cl]

As said in other postings, you are changing the subject of your agreement "tv becomes bottle of soda" and even if you were right about the fact that you make a counter-offer, I highly doubt that a cashier can legally bind the store and therfore you contract would be void. (At least, that's how it is here in Belgium)

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Spoing]

1. Theft? You gave them money. The person at the register should have noticed that the bike rang up as "JuicyFruit" instead of "Huffy" and I would call that an error in your favor.

If one of the store's employees acting on the store's behalf entered the bike's barcode into the computers as a pack of gum, I'd agree. Screw'em; they should have treated the inventory system more seriouly. This, on a small scale, happens all the time. I catch this at the grocery store 1 out of 3 times, usually in my favor.

Yet, that's not the case we're talking about. In this case, someone who is not a store employee working on the store's behalf either swaps barcodes or intentionally places a barcode on a more expensive item. And, here's the important part, that person uses that new barcode to defraud the store; it's fraud; a very serious crime.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[kaszeta]

A barcode isn't just a price, but a code representing an item, which in the cashregister is linked to a price.

At Walmart, yes. At some retailers, no. At a major clothing retailer that I won't name (but they use Linux for their POS, as a hint), the bar codes on the item price tag(they don't use the UPC codes) contain an item number and the price of the item. Yes, that means they have to go an re-tag every item when they need to change the price. Yes, that's a stupid way to do things. But it is what they do. You could probably get away with murder using bar-code swapping at their store.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Anonymous Coward]

+5, Interesting? How about -100, Stupid. What on earth has happened to common sense around here?

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[fafalone]

It would be ruled illegal in this scenario with fraud in the execution, since replacing the price is clearly fraud. It would also fail to meet legal contractual requirements that consideration must be appropriate; a contract to purchase an item with a fair market value of $500 for $10 is not a valid contract.
Failing either of those two points, there's no way such a contract would not be ruled void under the doctrine of promissory estoppel.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Anonymous Coward]

..offer made at the shelf

A cashier *is* part of wal-mart. Customers are not responsible for knowing wal-mart by-laws. At some stores, you CAN dicker with sales people about the price, and those sales people are the same people that ring you up. There is in general, no way for a customer to know which employees have the authority within the corporate heirarchy of the store to negotiate price. If the employee claims to have the authority, a customer has to trust them.

Here's another thought: I could stand behind a shut down register, turn on the light and wait for wal-mart customers, even though I don't work there. When someone entered my line, I could say: Sorry for the inconvenience, but our computers are down, and we are performing sales by hand until the problem is resolved. Because of the inconvenience and wait, we are taking 30% off the price of all merchandise at manual cash registers. I could then have a cash-box and discount all items 30%, accepting cash/checks only, and giving customers hand written recipts.

I would be stealing, but the question is: from who? It would be my customers that would be walking out the door with formerly wal*mart owned merchandise. The money would have been freely given to me in exchange for recipts.

If Wal*Mart caught someone walking out the door with some merchandise, that person might be charged with theft even though they didn't mean to steal. It could get wierd.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[TiredGamer]

While it is true that Wal-Mart calls all employees "associates" who are not of the Management class, the title is not legally binding and holds no power.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

But it's NOT theft. Which was the point I was making.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Anonymous Coward]

By replacing the barcode, you are not saying "I will pay $5 for this microwave oven", you are saying "This microwave oven is a bottle of soda".

Suppose I wanted to say:

"This microwave oven is a 5 pound bag of composted sheep manure".

Isn't that free speech?

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Spoing]

1. But it's NOT theft. Which was the point I was making.

"A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain."

"To take (the property of another) without right or permission."

Seems like you're arguing shades of blue.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

Not really, some think that downloading copyrighted works is stealing, and it's not. Neither is this.

If I trick you into selling me your bike as if it was a pack of gum, I did not steal your bike. I may be an asshole without morals, but I didn't steal a damn thing.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[Spoing]

If I remark a check, the bank cashes it, and you don't notice the difference on your statement, does the money magically appear -- leaving nobody with a loss?

Fraud is theft. I even gave you dictionary quotes, so if you continue to argue otherwise ... well, I've never argued anyone into thinking they were wrong, so I don't think you'll change your mind either. Experience seems to be a better teacher.

If you're caught stealing outright, you probably will not get a fellony conviction. If you're caught commiting fraud, the chances you'll get a fellony mark are much higher.

The only way the economy works is if there is a level of trust. When that trust is removed -- and fraud is one of those ways -- you've just broken the relationship. People have to make up the difference. In fraud and theft the end results are damn similar; they are one and part of the same tree, blending together.

Re:Shady, but probably legal

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

So if I trick you into charging me a lower price for a valuable item at a tag sale, or if I beat you about the face and neck with a metal rod and remove the item from your property.. you're saying that's the same thing?

If I take something of yours when you're not looking that's one thing, but if I say "I'm going to take this pack of gum" and hold up a 42" Television and you say "Alright, have a nice day" I haven't STOLEN anything from you.

The end results are damn similar? If I shoot you in the face or if a tree branch falls on you as you're walking through the park, the end results are the same. Does that make it the same thing?

Burger King and Super Mario

[Geburah]

A handful of years back, in a time when my morals weren't exactly as defined as they are now, (heh) I really wanted the brand spankin new "Super Smash Bros." for Super Nintendo. Problem was, I was fresh outta coppers. Yep. Not a dime to my name. So I 'borrowed' my dad's credit card, (who I share the same name with. Rock.) and headed on down to Kmart and bought the game.

Obviously all this hard work of buying video games would make anybody hungry, so I went to silence my grumbling belly meats by making a stop to the Burger King. After ordering my food and taking a seat, I began to unwrap my new Super Smash Bros video game over an 8-piece chicken tender value meal.

It is here where the clouds parted, and God himself reached down and touched me. It is here, that I calculated and measured the exact balance and weight of the Super Smash Bros cartridge in comparison to the equal amount of ketchup packets.

I took the packets and placed them neatly back in the cardboard game housing, packaging everything back up. I took the instruction manual as well, and replaced that with a good 7 or 8 napkins, folded rather nicely. Then, I went next store to Office Max, and had them shrink-wrap the game. Viola. Slap on one of them sticky-hangy-tab thingies, and you got yourself a game fresh off the shelf from behind those locked glass windows.

So, now the scary part. Time to find a differant Kmart. Sweaty and horribly nervous looking, I went inside to make the return. I claimed something to the tune of it being my birthday and that I had already owned this gift, so I wanted to return it. Everything went surprisingly smooth, except for the camera staring at my face. I still wont go back there to this day. :)

Now - Think about the possible following scenario for just a moment. Imagine - Your in your early teens, and you did your chores. It was a nice sunny weekend afternoon, and your dad felt like doing somethin nice for you. He remembers you going off about that new game. He buys it, brings it home to surpise you... your so excited! You guys have one of those rare but really heart felt father and son kinda hugs. Life, is perfect...

You open the box to your new game. In it, you find a small brick of ketchup packets and neatly folded napkins.

Sweet Jesus, I would give my first newborn child to a rabbid tiger just to see that facial expression.

PS: I used to work at Office Max. One day, a guy came back in after just buying a typewriter. Instead of a typewriter, he found a bag of potting soil. He was irate - I smiled. =)

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Timo_UK]

You bastard! I bought that box of Ketchup!

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Anonymous Coward]

That's rabbid tigger, man! :P

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[floodo1]

except that smash came out for n64, not snes. llama.

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Supurcell]

I had the same idea, except after I had already returned the item. It was when Sim City 4 first came out. I bought it, but didn't like, so I decided to return it. I went back to Circuit City, but they only let you exchange open software for the same item. I didn't know what to do. I didn't want to be stuck with Sim City 4, then I had the great idea to just tape the box shut the way it was when I bought it. The next day I went back to Circuit City told them I wanted to return the game, and they gave me my cash back with no questions asked. After that I thought that I should of just kept the CDs, so what if I didn't like it, you can't beat a free game.

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Hognoxious]

Sweet Jesus, I would give my first newborn child to a rabbid tiger just to see that facial expression.

LOL! I bet it was like my brother's when he found no toy in his Kinder egg.

Why was there no toy in his Kinder egg? Because I got home from school before him, carefully opened the foil, cut the chocolate shell along the seams with a sharp knife and removed the toy. A simple matter of soldering the chocolate back together with hot tea and replacing the foil and voila - one kid roaring his eyes out.

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Anonymous Coward]

And for everyone else there is BitTorrent, or emule or whatever still works these days..

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to do the same sort of thing during my Questionable Youth.

Purchase C64 game cartridges at Target, take them home and unscrew the cartridge casing and remove the "guts" of the cartridge. Screw it back together and return everything except the guts for a refund... or a different cartridge. Sometimes, if I was bored with a game, I'd put the boring game cartridge guts into a case and return that.

So, someone would purchase "Jumpman" only to come home and plug in the cartridge to get "pinball" or something.

The unfortunate (for me) downside to all this was that it led steadily to more and grander schemes, eventually leading to a felony burglary conviction. The fortunate outcome was that I did Learn My Lesson (tm) and now I wouldn't consider stealing anything.

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[tepples]

Smash Bros. was on NES before it was on N64. There existed adapters to run NES games on Super NES.

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Alsee]

a guy came back in after just buying a typewriter. Instead of a typewriter, he found a bag of potting soil.

Did you check if it came with any typewriter seeds?

-

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that's a cool story! Except that you completely made it up. Super Smash Brothers never came out of the Super Nintendo. Nice try, though. I guess that your morals are still a little out of focus.

-ac-

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Anonymous Coward]

Ya know, you could have just sold it to somebody else. Or given it to someone as a gift.

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Rick and Roll]

The unfortunate (for me) downside to all this was that it led steadily to more and grander schemes, eventually leading to a felony burglary conviction. The fortunate outcome was that I did Learn My Lesson (tm) and now I wouldn't consider stealing anything.

God, that's terrible. I hope you live in a state where you can vote after you get out of jail.

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Geburah]

BAH! N64 indeed. An honest mistake. I was up till 5am, defending middle earth. Before going to bed, I zipped by the ol' slashdot and jotted this story down.

So, yeah. My bad. I shoulda had Stephen Glass proofread this. Sorry bub. ;)

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Anonymous Coward]

The unfortunate (for me) downside to all this was that it led steadily to more and grander schemes, eventually leading to a felony burglary conviction.

I doubt that you really learned the (tm) lesson. If you had, you'd realize today that the downside was less unfortunate for you than for the people you fucked with your "grander schemes" before being busted.

Re:Burger King and Super Mario

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF?

Here's what I thought when I read your post:

A handful of years back, in a time when my morals

outta coppers. Yep. Not a dime to my name. So I 'borrowed' my dad's credit card

A couple of years back? How did you pay for this chicken tender value meal with a credit card considering credit cards weren't accepted at burger king a couple years ago.

Next, you purchased the game on a credit card. Brilliant. When the person brings that box back to the store and they want to know what's going on, all the store has to do is check the database and your dads credit card will tell them who the culprit is. If you would have used cash it would have been foolproof.

Re:Wal-Mart, the apotheosis of mediocre consumptio

[thegreat682]

Sometimes, it is impossible to not shop at WalMart. I never really noticed this until I went to college and began driving out to some of the small towns neighboring the school. There are areas where WalMart has monopolized all business, others are just unable to compete. In some of the places that I have been, the only place to get your groceries and other supplies is WalMart. There is nothing else.

hahaha

[Gordonjcp]

hmm, might be...

One of my friends did this in the UK ten years ago

[DJRikki]

Same idea, buy small jar of coffee, recreate barcode and print then pop it on a large jar next time. Got away with it for year too as the cash register only displayed the first 8 or so digits of what was going through the scanner "NESCAFE" etc.

Amazon

[Cryptnotic]

I think the best thing to do it go to a walmart and just sticker random items, so that random people are buying the altered items.

I think I remember Amazon was doing something similar a while back...

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/09/06/141824 6&tid=98

This has happened before..

[jcr]

I've also heard about Home Depot getting ripped off in the same way. It was in the news about a year or so ago.

-jcr

Hum

[djsmiley]

Once brought a second hand game in a shop for £10....

Returned it like a year later to another shop... got £14 cash for it (they dont normally give cash, but discounts on existing stock!!).

Re:Hum

[Anonymous Coward]

congrats, you're a criminal.

Re:Hum

[djsmiley]

Really? I disagree....

Its upto the shop to decide if they wish to buy the product from me.

Btw i've also heard stories about in this city (we have lik 10game shops!!!) where people have brought games on offer in one shop, and then sold them in the shop down the road making money...

The shops realised and yet still kept doing it to keep the customers happy.

a conversation I recently had

[Anonymous Coward]

A friend and I were talking the other day about how stupid it is for a criminal to make his money in such small increments. The chances of getting caught go up dramatically, and it's just plain more work.

If we were ever going to do something like that, it would be once, for enough money to live comfortably the rest of your life.

Barcodes are dangerous...

[Vo0k]

Barcodes are very handy but way too easy to copy.
You don't need special software. You don't need a computer to copy one. You can xero a barcode, and with enough skill, recreate one using pen and paper.
Then, you don't need to go even there! Go, buy Half-Life 1 from bargain bin, then remove the sticker with barcode, slap it on HalfLife 2 over the original one...

And we wonder why....

[rune-bare-rune]

And we wonder why the retail industry wants to adopt RFID?
Cause you can't do that kind of spoofing there, right? Right?

Re:And we wonder why....

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine a broadcaster you place in a store and leave turned on that reprograms all RFID tags within its locality to report themselves to the scanner at the register as {ODD OBJECT} for the low price of $0.01 ...

Re:And we wonder why....

[Richy_T]

Why would you think that?

RFID chips are usually very simple.Especially such as would be commercially viable for mass produced goods.

It would be out of the range of most people to make them but programmable ones are available.

Rich

Retailers use this for competitive pricing...

[switzer]

This method is used to obtain competitive pricing all the time. For example, if Half Life 2 is going on sale at the beginning of the month, and Joe Retailer wants to know how much his competitors are going to charge:

Just print off the UPC code onto a sticker, and go into a competitor (like Walmart) a week before it goes on sale. Put the sticker onto another game, and ask the cashier for a price check. The scanner computer already has the pricing information in it, so the price that they are going to charge shows up on the register!

Re:Retailers use this for competitive pricing...

[Anonymous Coward]

a reasonably smart register would ring that up as 'DO NOT SELL' rather than $42.95.

Re:Retailers use this for competitive pricing...

[jdludlow]

You probably don't even have to get an employee involved, since a lot of larger stores (Target for instance) have barcode scanners set out specifically for the customers to do their own price checks.

Print off a list of all the products you want to check, and take care of it in one trip.

Re:Retailers use this for competitive pricing...

[mysterymeat]

I work at Circuit City, and whenever we come across something that some customer's trying to buy that hasn't been released yet, we get an unpleasant beep from our terminal and it says "Item cannot be sold until XX/YY/ZZZZ".

If Joe Best Buy comes in trying to do that trick, we're going to know that something's up when we see that Warcraft III's not going to be released until 12/16/2004.

Re:Retailers use this for competitive pricing...

[Spoing]

1. Just print off the UPC code onto a sticker, and go into a competitor (like Walmart) a week before it goes on sale. Put the sticker onto another game, and ask the cashier for a price check. The scanner computer already has the pricing information in it, so the price that they are going to charge shows up on the register!

Online, sometimes it's simpler. The static pages for some store specials are usually generated days and weeks before the supplement goes out. Just browse to the current fliers, change the URL to match the likely date of the next flyer (or some other guessable key), and you know what is for sale without having to be sneaky.

Doesn't work with most DB generated pages, though it does occasionally.

Re:Retailers use this for competitive pricing...

[cybermage]

The scanner computer already has the pricing information in it, so the price that they are going to charge shows up on the register!

If the POS system is worth anything, it should show you their non-sale price for the item. Sale prices should be entered with start and stop dates at some level of the system. Since the item wouldn't be on sale the week before it comes out, you should only be seeing their regular price if the item has already been entered.

Depending on how they handle sale signage, you might be able to pick up the sale price the night before it goes on sale. Some retailers, like CVS, push the next week's sale prices out to the registers the evening before the sale so that they can put up the sale signs that evening before they close.

I would be pretty surprised to see sale prices on new items more than a few hours before they go on sale.

Also, as far as competitive pricing goes, retailers need to decide what their price will be for a new item well before it's released: They need it price for signage and advertising.

Old News

[salesgeek]

Back in the day to do this you needed Corel Draw (it had a neat little tool called the Corel BarCode) and a decent 24 pin dot matrix printer with a fresh ribbon and a pack of labels.

In the same direction....

[raehl]

Wal-Mart says that if I present an item to the cashier, and I have done something so that the price scans lower than the posted price, I'm guilty of stealing from wal-mart....

Then if I present an item to the cashier, and it scans a price higher than the posted price, is Wal-Mart guilty of stealing from me?

Doesn't seem like they should be able to have it both ways. How is swapping bar codes to get a lower price any different than "accidentally" entering a higher price for a particular barcode into the database?

Re:In the same direction....

[fish waffle]

How is swapping bar codes to get a lower price any different than "accidentally" entering a higher price for a particular barcode into the database?

Aristotle described the core of the distinction long ago: intention. If you as a customer swap barcodes in a store your goal is clearly (usually) to sneak a higher price item for a lower price. You are misrepresenting the transaction to get take advantage of someone/thing else. If some retailer makes an error in pricing they are not necessarily intentionally misrepresenting the transaction; they are still acting in "good faith."

Of course some retailers have intentionally done database/bar-code tricks to the disadvantage of consumers, and that would be theft (i vaguely recall at least one court case a few years ago though i don't remember the retailer or specifics and google isn't helping).

Re:In the same direction....

[AnotherBlackHat]

How is swapping bar codes to get a lower price any different than "accidentally" entering a higher price for a particular barcode into the database?

Aristotle described the core of the distinction long ago: intention. If you as a customer swap barcodes in a store your goal is clearly (usually) to sneak a higher price item for a lower price. You are misrepresenting the transaction to get take advantage of someone/thing else. If some retailer makes an error in pricing they are not necessarily intentionally misrepresenting the transaction; they are still acting in "good faith."

So if you act without thinking you shouldn't be held accountable?

Re:In the same direction....

[Dun Malg]

So if you act without thinking you shouldn't be held accountable?

Being that our bodies can't do much without the brain telling them to do something, I think you'd be hard pressed to characterize any act other than dropping a hot potato as something done without thinking. But go ahead, try to convince the judge that slapping a new barcode sticker on was a "reflex action, like when you scratch a dog and his leg moves".

Re:In the same direction....

[AnotherBlackHat]

Being that our bodies can't do much without the brain telling them to do something...

Yes, but the "brain" isn't necessarily thinking about the most important consequence.

Suppose a beer company tests two ads in two different cities and decides to run the ad that increases their sales the most.
Then it turns out that the reason it increases sales is because it encourages teenagers to buy beer illegally.

If Walmart tries two policies regardling barcodes, and one makes them more money,
do you think anyone bothers to check if it's because they're now ripping off customers?

Lack of intent might be a necessary criterion for escaping blame, but it's not a sufficient one.

Re:In the same direction....

[tisme]

Actually Walmart Canada has a policy that states if an item scans higher than it is advertised as, they will give you the item free up to $15.00 (so $25.00 item scanned to high would become $10.00).

Futureshop in Canada has the same policy and they also have a price matching policy that states they will give you 10% of the difference at a futher discount. I was able to get $27 taken off a $85 product by using a combination of both policies (plus 2% back on my visa). Unfortunately for me, I decided to return the item later so I never really got a deal out of it.

Re:In the same direction....

[jonblaze]

So if you act without thinking you shouldn't be held accountable?

Or at least as accountable. Thus, the distinction between voluntary manslaughter and premeditated murder. It's the same act with the same result, but with a different mental state.

Re:In the same direction....

[geekoid]

"Then if I present an item to the cashier, and it scans a price higher than the posted price, is Wal-Mart guilty of stealing from me?"

if you bought a 150 dollar microwave, and it turned out walmart replaced the microwave with potting soil, then yeah, they stole.

If they made a mistake, like the posted price isn't the price in rang up for, then it is just a mistake. one they will rectify.

Re:In the same direction....

[Dun Malg]

Lack of intent might be a necessary criterion for escaping blame, but it's not a sufficient one.

Of course, but you either have to prove intent to defraud or negligence, and the space between the two is pretty wide. A handfull of mis-priced items among thousands is an excusable error.

And this works because....?

[raehl]

Or at last chance you could be like my girlfriend, loose the recipt and just dress in a miniskirt and a tight shirt and act dingy to the pimply faced associate.

And this works because the associate has never seen something in a miniskirt MOO before?

Re:And this works because....?

[Anonymous Coward]

And this works because the associate has never seen something in a miniskirt MOO before?

He could have seen it a million times, but it still never gets old, man... it just ever gets old.

Re:And this works because....?

[TheScorpion420]

Now I have to ask are you referring to yourself or my girlfriend? Because only one makes sense and its not my girlfriend.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

For those that don't get it.....

[THESuperShawn]

You don't switch a pack of gum for a $300 mountain bike....you switch a $100 mountain bike for a $300 mountain bike. You would only use like components.

This has been going on for a long time and is why Wal-Mart is on such a push for RFID.

Re:For those that don't get it.....

[Hognoxious]

You don't switch a pack of gum for a $300 mountain bike....you switch a $100 mountain bike for a $300 mountain bike. You would only use like components.

No, you put the bike label (either one) on a $9.99 pack of socks and observe the subsequent hilarity.

Here come RFID tags!

[PsiPsiStar]

Wonder how hard it is to print those.

Re:Well Done!For SPANISH Speakers -- www.yomango.o

[Anonymous Coward]

i understand it's also a convenient way to print movie tickets at home.

Wondering aloud

[anon*127.0.0.1]

Does this explain Wal-Marts big hurry to get RFID on all their products? These people got caught because they got greedy, and involved someone not quite as clever as themselves. Not quite as clever person got caught and squealed. I assume that there are quite a few clever, not so greedy people who have homes very nicely furnished and extremely low prices from Wal-Mart.

And where the hell did that 1.5 million come from? Did the crooks still have 1.5 million worth of stolen stuff in their home? Did the have a nice detailed spreadsheet of everything they'd ripped off since day one? Or did somebody at Wal-Mart just pull a number out of the air?

Re:Wondering aloud

[t_allardyce]

Im with you on that, it would take an insane amount of shopping to rack up $1.5 million, especially when the shop is already cheap! Thats about 1500 x $1000 PCs, unless Walmart sells anything much more expensive than that? Personally I would blame the idiots at the checkout, if it says "Chocolate $2" when you scan it but its a big box that takes 2 people to carry and says "TV" on the side, then your a fucking retard.

Re:Wondering aloud

[Anonymous Coward]

It was probably around 200k, but they rounded the figure upward.

Re:Wondering aloud

[Alsee]

Does this explain Wal-Marts big hurry to get RFID on all their products?

Ayup, because that will solve the relabeled price problem. Chuckle.

-

shame on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

The sheer amount of glee and enthusiasm for consumer fraud this board is demonstrating is making me nauseous. No really, I just threw up a little.

Time to build that cabin in the woods. Where did I put my manifesto notepad...

Turnabout is fair play

[sl4shd0rk]

If walmart gets fucked once in a while, they got it coming -- exponentially as far as I care. Do I need to mention Enron or Strong? This is just a new branch of capitalism. Move along.

Re:Turnabout is fair play

[Anonymous Coward]

if i even bought into your arguement, which i don't, how are the union members benefiting from this?

where is the trickle-down theory here? oh wait! it's actually BAD for everyone else... huh!

Re:Turnabout is fair play

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure how it's bad for those who don't shop at evil companies.

Re:Turnabout is fair play

[Anonymous Coward]

that type of thinking is at the root of the indifference to this problem. many people have stopped experiencing themselves as a connected member of society. the losses incured will ripple through society likes waves, growing ever weaker as they traverse the relationship hierarchy. Even those that don't directly interact with walmart are likely in one form or another to pay a fractional cost.

consider the future clients (maybe it's not you, but perhaps it's your mother/father, aunt/uncle, neighbor). the wellbeing of those those most closely linked to you will have the biggest impact on your wellbeing. an example, your mum shops at walmart. she would have paid less had the losses due to theft been lower. now she doesn't have enough money for product or service x. she does without, or you or someone else picks up the slack.

your neighbor can no longer afford their meds, they go a bit daffie, do x, y, and z, and as a consequence your property value plummets.

it's a domino effect. you getting the bigger picture?

we are not islands. when you stick it to the man (or whatever justification you choose), we all eventually pay the price. it's a closed system.

Re:Turnabout is fair play

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the point they were trying to say is Wal-Mart has a bad karma. You may have noticed manufacturers now make one model they sell exclusively to one chain and another for other store(s) in the competing markets, I think Walmart is a major reason why. Wal-Mart has caused many people to lose their jobs and ironically not be able to afford to buy goods at other places that treat the workers better, so they have to shop at places like Walmart. Walmart forces manufacturers to sell the products at cheaper prices to them. An example is Huffy bikes used to be made in the USA and are now made in another country with cheaper labor.

Since Walmart is the biggest store chain in the country (USA) and has a presence in outside of the country, many manufacturers will cut corners and/or go for the cheaper labor costs in another country. Sadly, I hear manufacturing plants in China are now bringing in workers from Vietnam, because of the working conditions/wages aren't appealing to enough Chinese workers.

If I thought the displaced workers in the USA were being replaced by people who had a good chance to huge increase in better living conditions, it won't be a completely bad thing. People could get items for a cheaper price and someone in another country would have a better chance to buy things from a country with a much higher exchange rate. When you can support the little guys, who don't have the purchasing power of Walmart and you will do a better job keeping your community connected. A while back their was a story about Walmart putting in a Mega store in California that included groceries http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/10/89674.php and http://www.valleyadvocate.com/gbase/News/content?o id=oid:68043. All of the competing stores gave the workers health insurance (cashiers, stock people,...), but Walmart typically doesn't (the TV account). Also the news article said Walmart employees were more likely to be on public support while working at Walmart than other people in the community. A article from 2003 in Denver about Walmart not being good is at http://www.temple-news.com/news/2003/10/02/Opinion /Walmart.Rolling.Back.Prices.For.Welfare.Benefits- 511233.shtml

Re:Turnabout is fair play

[ArtStone]

Before you get too carried away with this notion, back in the early days of Wal-Mart in Arkansas, Hillary Clinton served on the Board of Directors for six years - the Village Voice is about the only media outlet willing to make that connection and ask questions.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0021/harkavy. ph p

Do wal-mart employees get paid health insurance?

http://www.ufcw.org/worker_political_agenda/wher e_ we_stand/health_care_reform/walmart.cfm

Re:Turnabout is fair play

[Anonymous Coward]

so... what you're saying is, it's o.k. to steal from WalMart because, in your opinion, they use unfair business practices... twisted.

no wonder i hate unions.

When the Revolution comes

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft will be the first up against the wall, but you can bet your fuzzy bunnie that Walmart will be next.

In a previous life as a cashier

[joshv]

I used to see lower tech versions of this scheme when I worked as a cashier in college. The simple price tag switchero. Most often people would try this with items of clothing, as the tags were attached with that little plastic whatchamawhosis, which made switching easier. Even so it was pretty obvious when a tag had been switched. And generally they were so stupid they'd put ridiculously low prices on the items. For any cashier that was half awake, it was easy to spot.

Usually I would just call the clothing department for a price check, at which point the nervous shopper would claim that they didn't want the item afterall.

Re:When the Revolution comes

[aflat362]

Microsoft would only come first if geeks started the revolution.

Walmart is bigger, more visible, more accessible, more evil than Microsoft and more deserving of the wrath of an angry hoard.

At Home Depot, the cashiers just don't care

[Powercntrl]

A few months ago I was buying the parts to put together an entire irrigation system from Home Depot. Had the whole deal in two carts, one full of PVC fittings/heads/etc., the other full of pipes.

The cashier just looked at the entire mess of items with disgust and ended up tossing every part into a bag regardless of whether or not it scanned on the first try. For what was supposed to be $300 - $350 in parts, I ended up paying around $180 for.

If you don't pay your employees enough to care, you're gonna have losses. :-P

Re:At Home Depot, the cashiers just don't care

[Powercntrl]

I should note, there was no intent of fraud on my part - the cashier simply did not care to make sure every item I purchased got scanned.

Re:At Home Depot, the cashiers just don't care

[Anonymous Coward]

you're still a scum bag for not pointing out that they should have scanned them all in.

Re:At Home Depot, the cashiers just don't care

[maskedbishounen]

I eat at Wendys. A lot. At the on I'm partial to, they often confuse "Sprite" with "Fries". I can't even count the number of times that after pointing this out to them, they still give me the fries along with the drink.

Sometimes they take the fries out, sometimes they leave them in. I've even been told on occasion I have to take them, because they can't take back food they've already given out; they claimed the fried would had to be tossed out.

So, what the heck. I always take the extra "free" item, munch on a few, and that's that. Am I a scum bag for not forcing them to take back the unpaid for item?

Re:At Home Depot, the cashiers just don't care

[Anonymous Coward]

not necessarily. that way (if you live in the US) you should complain for the tax breaks because the projections of surplus were intentionally wrong..

Re:At Home Depot, the cashiers just don't care

[idamaybrown]

A typical Bill Clinton response!

In perspective

[Trailer Trash]

Not that it justifies stealing from Wal-Mart, but note that at $250,000,000,000/year, $1,500,000 is less than 2 minutes of Wal-Mart's revenue.

Re:In perspective

[Ahnteis]

But it terms of MY revenue, it's a whole lot longer.

(In terms of Wal-Mart employees, it's even longer then that.)

Also...

[artemis67]

consider that they were doing it across 19 states. So, factor in travel expenses, hotel rooms, gas, vehicle wear, and eating restaurant food most of the time, so they probably averaged about $20,000 per person per year.

Boy, how stupid do you have to be to be willing to go to jail for a $20k/year job...

Re:Also...

[pkhuong]

Does your job cover food & room? You might as well say they go 20K, tax free, to spend as they wanted. That's really far from bad.

Schemes like this cost our anonymity...

[cameronk]

This type of scam will sound so quaint in five or ten years after Wal-Mart has individual RFID tags which document the price, supply chain and ultimate purchaser of any product. I'm excited.

Any relation to the Terminus mayor?

[Pig Hogger]

From the article:

The ring avoided detection in part by visiting stores at the busiest times, Portland Police Detective Don Hardin said.
Hardin, who declined to name the other chains at the companies' request, said other arrests could come as soon as next week.

Is that Don Hardin any related to Terminus/Foundation mayor Salvor Hardin???

Walmart doesn't care

[tentimestwenty]

So one group made 1.5 million from switching UPCs. That's a drop in the ocean compared to Walmart's overall sales. Think of what it would cost to hire employees who cared, just to catch the rare occurrence of something like this. Totally a no brainer, you just keep doing what you're doing.

Re:Walmart doesn't care

[Dogtanian]

Bingo. Reminds me of a comment I made in response to someone who said "If they paid employees a decent wage, they wouldn't steal stationery".

What would be the value of stationery that the average employee could typically get away with stealing? Almost certainly far less than it would cost to increase their wages by enough to have an effect.

If I was an amoral employer, the choice would be a no-brainer. I'd bite the cost of the stationery as a minor expense anyday.

Re:Walmart doesn't care

[LurkerXXX]

Yup, much cheaper to go with this RFID scheme.

Bury a marker in the product so that the computer knows if it's right or not. You no longer have to rely on a sticker that you can put a new sticker over.

The cashier is much more likely to notice that you've wraped the whole item in aluminum foil (to prevent the signal from the real RFID) than that you slipped on a new price sticker.

Not dumb as a sack of hammers ...

[Titusdot Groan]

... they just don't care!

I was in a Walmart during the US Thanksgiving and the women ahead of us stood for 20 minutes in Thanksgiving weekend lines at Walmart and, after a horribly acted search for small change, bought a single pack of gum with a brand new crisp $100.

The sales clerk accepted it without question.

As soon as the women walked away with her gum and change I quickly told the sales clerk it was probably a fake, all the while keeping track of the probable counterfeiter.

The sales clerk just shrugged and started scanning our stuff.

They just don't care -- it's not their money and they have no love or loyality for their employee.

Re:Not dumb as a sack of hammers ...

[iggymanz]

I've used $100 bills at Walmart; why do you assume the bill was fake? - there's alot of very obvious anti-counterfeiting measures in the new bills that just need a glance and a touch to verify. If a fake bill $100 does get passed, the secret service gets interested quickly, and Walmart will have video of the person, transaction and vehicle in which they drove away.

Re:Not dumb as a sack of hammers ...

[Titusdot Groan]

I've used $100 bills at Walmart; why do you assume the bill was fake?

Because I found it unlikely that this person would drive out to a walmart in the middle of nowhere, stand in line for at least 20 minutes just to buy a single pack of gum. That and the whole display of looking for a smaller bill or change was so obviously staged.

Re:Not dumb as a sack of hammers ...

[iggymanz]

Unlikely a person who knowingly has a counterfeit $100 and the willingness to spend it is going to waste it on 50 cents of gum when Walmart has those nifty microwave ovens & TV's & such? And travelers carry large bills because small ones are too bulky.

My boss/company owner just gave me and everone else in his company an envelope of two $50 bills for the new year, maybe I should buy a candy bar.....

Re:Not dumb as a sack of hammers ...

[oldosadmin]

They wanted $99.50 in real money, not a microwave.

Re:Not dumb as a sack of hammers ...

[Anonymous Coward]

chances are that the cashier was in on it.

The Decay of Trust

[hburch]

Which gets us to the meta-hack: take the typewriter box back to OfficeMax with a bag of potting soil, and complain that the soil was in the box.

The return system would not be difficult to game at small scales, if you were untrustworthy. It's unfortunate, but true. The truly unfortunate fact is that a small set of people can game the system so much that companies are disuaded from offering returns, except as required by law, and making them as painful as possible. This has already happened, to a large extent, with data copies (software, music, and movies).

one minute it was there...

[Anonymous Coward]

I really hate their vanishing reciepts... I think that in it self is a scam. You know... rebates.... Sorry sir, you didn't provide the necessary information.

Re:Wal-Mart, the apotheosis of mediocre consumptio

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for stopping by. I'll assume your Anonymous posture is due to the continual bed wetting problem?

Bar code replacement

[WoBIX]

Wasn't there a link to a site on how to do this posted here a couple of years ago? The site in question recommended doing it with similar models and such, and not going overboard.

The concept definitely isn't new. Surprising they managed to get away with that much before being caught though.

Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few responses

[YukiKotetsu]

At first, I was just disgusted at these people who decide to scam the system the best they can and for as much as they can. When I saw they'd be getting 8-whatever years for this, I felt a little better.

Then I see people posting on tips how to do this more efficiently, how they have done it at Home Despot, Best Buy, and so on, and I wonder...

Are these the same people that think downloading movies and music is just fine? How are you justifying this, since every thief I know has some way to justify it.

They charge too much, therefore it is right of you to systematically lower the price via a UPC swap?

You couldn't afford it, therefore it is right of you to systematically lower the price via a UPC swap?

You wouldn't have bought it at such a high price, it is right of you to systematically lower the price via a UPC swap?

So, by stealing an item for a lower price, you're driving up the price of the rest of their inventory. You can now justify their high prices by requiring them to set the prices higher to account for loss, the loss you have created. Nice job.

Everyone has some kind of justification, I bet these criminals had some as well. They did not want to work, found the system easy to exploit, and wanted free money... what better reason is there really? Sure, they are "innocent until proven guilty" I suppose.

I'm not sure if it's the lack of morals, or just the lack of brainpower that causes such things. Self-justification of stealing is still just stealing and it makes me sick.

Someone tried this with me once... kind of.

[cvd6262]

When I worked at REI (Camping, climbing, etc, gear), we were always told to handle the merchandise ourselves. A customer once came to my register with a large internal frame backpack, and instead of handing it to me, he just pointed the pricetag at me. I grabbed the sac out of his hands and said, "Hmmm. This seems a little heavy." At which point I opened it and found a $110 rope. They guy was totally pale and muttered, "Huh. I wander how that got it there." I asked if he wanted to buy it and he said, "no," so I rang him up for the backpack and restocked the rope.

More on topic, this was something that was part of the training. they taught us how to find fake pricetags, hidden items (carabiners in shoes, tents in backpacks, etc.), and a whole bunch of other tricky stuff. It goes to show that if you don't pay for good training up front, you'll pay for it later.

Re:Someone tried this with me once... kind of.

[idamaybrown]

"And yes, I have worked retail, and no, I do not shoplift. If I want it, I buy it. If i can't afford it honestly, I wait until I can. What a concept !" But a lot of people don't think that way. I don't want to pay higher prices because the store wasn't watching for thieves.

Re:Someone tried this with me once... kind of.

[whiskeypete]

Guilty until proven innocent, huh ? Nice...

No, Guilty only when proven guilty. The clerk didn't necessarily assume anything before picking up the backpack. He just followed standard procedure.

Saying that checking the product is assuming guilt is like saying the doctor is assuming you are sick when he takes your temperature.

Re:Someone tried this with me once... kind of.

[Anonymous Coward]

It goes to show that if you don't pay for good training up front, you'll pay for it later.

In this case, it's more of a business decision. At Walmart, there's a high turnover rate for cashiers and it'll probably cost them more than $1.5M to try and train the cashiers for this type of thing. Notice I said "try" because not all Walmart cashiers will be able to retain the training.

At REI, they're probably more careful with their hiring and retain their staff for longer periods. So in the long term, it costs them less to train this staff properly than it would to let a few unscrupolous shoppers steal stuff regularly.

Re:Someone tried this with me once... kind of.

[Anonymous Coward]

"But a lot of people don't think that way. I don't want to pay higher prices because the store wasn't watching for thieves."

Let's cut to the chase : a lot of people don't fucking THINK,
period.

1) theft doesn't necessarily translate to higher prices. Prices are based on many other factors, the cost added by theft is "lost in the noise". Somehow, I doubt you have much retail business experience. I do, and you don't need to conduct a search of checkout items to spot a thief.

2) I won't shop where the presumption is that anyone could be a shoplifter. I would rather take my business elsewhere, and I will.

Re:Someone tried this with me once... kind of.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Saying that checking the product is assuming guilt is like saying the doctor is assuming you are sick when he takes your temperature."

Sorry, but your analogy is that of a person who can't think very well.

More like it : the doc suggests you get a test for HIV because he thinks you MIGHT be gay. And if my doctor did this, he'd see the last of me that very second.

Re:Someone tried this with me once... kind of.

[fmaxwell]

Sorry, but your analogy is that of a person who can't think very well.

Actually, his analogy was spot on and yours was way off the mark. The cashier took the backpack to ring it up, following the same procedure for that customer as for every other customer. He noticed that it was heavy, opened it up (now having reasonable cause for suspicion) and discovered the rope.

More like it : the doc suggests you get a test for HIV because he thinks you MIGHT be gay. And if my doctor did this, he'd see the last of me that very second.

Why? Are you that insecure about your sexuality that you'd run out of a doctor's office "that very second" because the doctor thought that you "MIGHT be gay"? You know what? I think that you MIGHT be gay after reading that weird analogy.

Re:Someone tried this with me once... kind of.

[D0 J00 W4n7 K4r473]

I used to work at Kmart, and we were required to open all bags and unzip all compartments. I even did the customers one better: I told them I was going to remove all the cardboard and paper that was used to make the bags look full on the shelf. They would have just thrown it all away anyway, and most people appreciated it. It also absolved me of the need for a reasonable suspicion to open the bag. Another way to look at it is that the bag does not actually belong to them until payment is accepted, so they really have no rights on the bag at that point. IANAL

Re:Someone tried this with me once... kind of.

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you that insecure about your sexuality that you'd run out of a doctor's office "that very second" because the doctor thought that you "MIGHT be gay"? You know what? I think that you MIGHT be gay after reading that weird analogy.

You really got that right! I can not imagine getting all upset because someone thought I might be gay. That guy is either totally in the closet or is completely in denial. Where did that come from anyway? How is a doctor being concerned about your health related to a cashier suspecting you of shoplifting?

Re:Someone tried this with me once... kind of.

[fmaxwell]

1) theft doesn't necessarily translate to higher prices. Prices are based on many other factors, the cost added by theft is "lost in the noise".

Yes, theft does result in higher prices. According to the 2002 National Retail Security Survey, shoplifting occured 330 - 440 million times in 2002, resulting in a loss of $10 - $13 billion dollars. Nationwide, that equates to 1.0 - 1.2 million shoplift incidents everyday at a loss rate of $19,000 - $25,300 dollars stolen per minute. Depending on the type of retail store, retail inventory shrinkage ranges from .7% - 2.2% of gross sales with the average falling around 1.70%. Whole retail store chains have gone out of business due to their inability to control retail theft losses. Even when the store does take appropriate measures to limit shoplifting, the costs of those measures are passed on to the consumer. That includes salaries for store detectives, employee training in loss prevention, exit scanners, ceiling-mounted cameras, and a plethora of other security costs.

Somehow, I doubt you have much retail business experience. I do, and you don't need to conduct a search of checkout items to spot a thief.

You may have a lot of retail experience, but you apparently very little knowledge about loss prevention. Attentive cashiers who handle each piece of merchandise and are knowledgeable about the goods being sold are one of the most effective ways to keep shoplifters out of a retail establishment. Shoplifters who switch prices and conceal merchandise inside of other merchandise quickly learn to avoid stores where the cashiers recognize that an inexpensive purse is suspiciously heavy, that a $300 G. Loomis fishing rod just rung up as a $14.95 Berkley fishing rod, or that a barcode sticker is on the outside of the cellophane covering up the real barcode printed on the box inside.

Taking the backback from the consumer to ring it up was not a "search." At the time that the cashier took it, the backpack was still the store's property and opening it when it was obviously too heavy was perfectly reasonable.

pingfuckits

[dmaxwell]

On this side of the pond we call them "Jesus-clips". If you lose it, "Oh Jesus!" is exactly what you are going to say. The best Jesus-clips are springy metal things that can't be had from any hardware and will fly faster than the eye can see to eventually embed themselves vertically in neutral colored carpet.

They should've waited

[Rich Klein]

Surely that bouncing smiley face would've "rolled-back" the prices after a couple days. The crooks could've obtained the merchandise for the same price *legally* if they'd only waited a couple days!

Re:Wal-Mart, the apotheosis of mediocre consumptio

[Anonymous Coward]

"Sometimes, it is impossible to not shop at WalMart... There are areas where WalMart has monopolized all business"

That is precisely BECAUSE people DID shop at Wal-Mart.

I rest my case.

RFID will make this even easier

[SCHecklerX]

It's a good thing Wal-Mart is working so hard to move to RFID tags instead. Tinfoil if you don't want to pay at all, or just reprogram mayonaise as underwear or something for a fun time with your own RFID reader.

Oh well...

[Anonymous Coward]

I always wanted to try changing the bar code on empty cans and getting a deposit for them.

UPC has got to go as it suffers from security issues and could lead to mass fraud. RFID is the future.

Re:Wendy's mistake

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I a scum bag for not forcing them to take back the unpaid for item?

Not in the slightest. They made an error, which you properly pointed out. They were aware of the mistake and chose to offer you the item instead. As they said, they'd have to toss it out if you didn't take it. Instead, you feel like you are getting a deal -- something for nothing -- and you are more likely to return to that store (even if you are just hoping they'll screw up again) rather than go somewhere else.

Did nothing wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

This is called "bartering". The aleged theives simply provided a new price to the retailer and the retailer accepted. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

Re:Wal-Mart, the apotheosis of mediocre consumptio

[idamaybrown]

You on the other hand, are such a genius that you would rather pay more for the same item - right?

The New Negotiation

[buckhead_buddy]

It used to be that in a shop, one could negotiate the price with the owner. If you asked Sam Drucker about a $10 wrench that he thought was a $2 screwdriver, and sold it to you for that amount then that's his incompetence for not identifying his products for sale.

These people were putting a different bar code on the box; that's Walmart's fault for relying solely on the barcode for doing all of it's pricing negotiation. They had cashiers that could have seen something was out of line, so the human was not taken out of this process completely and actually seems to add to Walmart's incompetence at identifying what it was selling.

I suspect that the defendants in this case won't be able to hire a legal team capable of arguing this well in court and will probably fold to Walmart's high priced lawyers, but I still don't think the case is as open and shut as the Walmart PR people want people to believe.

Re:The New Negotiation

[TheLink]

No. There's a difference. If you actively make the $10 wrench look like a $2 screwdriver you are committing fraud.

Even if the shopkeeper is incompetent, it's fraud because there is _dishonest_ gain involved. It's just not honest.

If you didn't do anything AND genuinely thought the wrench was $2 AND the shopkeeper sells it to you for $2 then that's fine.

If you didn't do anything BUT knew the shopkeeper made a mistake, then while it may be legal it's ethically dubious.

Still, I might not be able to resist the temptation to buy say, 21" LCD monitors for USD1. After all, if there's no indicator there being a "special" I'd know someone/something screwed up.

That said, I have paid the difference to people when I've been undercharged (they forgot to bill an order or something).

If you're a happy customer of the place, why hurt a business that's been good to you?

If you are an unhappy customer, then why keep going there? Unless you conduct significant fraud, they'd still make money out of you. Make the extra effort to go elsewhere.

There are probably gray areas too.

I've seen identical products with different prices AND often the descriptions on the price labels are correct too. So I'd say go for the cheaper one (but there might be reasons why they're cheaper - they may not be as identical as you think :) ).

And choose your blend of justice and mercy carefully. You may feel it's "justice" when you get to buy tons of expensive stuff at ridiculously low prices from some company that you think is bad. But remember, given all our faults, we all need mercy more than we need justice.

The subtle art of Curtation? Ha!

[Dogtanian]

Though, the cash does display items using abreviations and other weird short forms to fit it on the line. I've seen items scan simply as "12 pack" or "toy", which isn't descriptive in the least.

Check this classic out from "The Devil's DP Dictionary", via the Linux fortune cookie program:-

curtation, n.:

The enforced compression of a string in the fixed-length field environment.

The problem of fitting extremely variable-length strings such as names, addresses, and item descriptions into fixed-length records is no trivial matter. Neglect of the subtle art of curtation has probably alienated more people than any other aspect of data processing. You order Mozart's "Don Giovanni" from your record club, and they invoice you $24.95 for MOZ DONG. The witless mapping of the sublime onto the ridiculous! Equally puzzling is the curtation that produces the same eight characters, THE BEST, whether you order "The Best of Wagner", "The Best of Schubert", or "The Best of the Turds". Similarly, wine lovers buying from computerized wineries twirl their glasses, check their delivery notes, and inform their friends, "A rather innocent, possibly overtruncated CAB SAUV 69 TAL." The squeezing of fruit into 10 columns has yielded such memorable obscenities as COX OR PIP. The examples cited are real, and the curtational methodology which produced them is still with us.

MOZ DONG n.
Curtation of Don Giovanni by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Lorenzo da Ponte, as performed by the computerized billing ensemble of the Internat'l Preview Society, Great Neck (sic), N.Y.
-- Stan Kelly-Bootle, "The Devil's DP Dictionary"

Self Check-out for Food

[nurb432]

Often in grocery stores that have this, they also weigh the product.. So if it doesnt match what is in the computer ( not the bacode ) it alerts the attendant for a manual override..

Re:Self Check-out for Food

[Overzeetop]

I think this occurs in the bagging section, as I can scan my stuff at Kroger pretty damned fast, and it never rests on the scanner. Gawd, I love those self-checkouts when I've got to get in and out fast. Gawd I hate those checkouts when they're filled with the guys trying to work them for the first time, or trying to pay the $30 bill with pennies and nickels from their pockets.

Re:Self Check-out for Food

[nurb432]

Yes, you are right, the weight 'check' is on the bagging tray. ( try setting something on it sometime while you are scanning and you will see it gets rather upset. )

The scanner is also capable of this, for produce..

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the fact that someone like Frank Raines can defraud the world (and investors) of 9 billion dollars so that he gets more money in his pocket, THEN walks away with a severance package worth more than the collective income of probably 99.5% of the posters to this thread and never see jail time is enough for me to have a smile when I see guys like this pulling scams of this nature.

The older the video, the greater the refund

[Dogtanian]

My sister told me about one lady she met who bought a broken VCR for a dollar or two at a garage sale and then returned it to MallWart for a full refund of the original price.

How far can you take that? Someone elsewhere mentioned that WalMart would take back *anything*, so you could get a 25-year old Betamax machine for a dollar, and return it for its original price, which would be something like $1000 (yep; in this case, the older the better).

Hang on.... that's the missing step in the "1... 2... 3. Profit!" meme!

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[Anonymous Coward]

The justification is simply that they are getting more for less. They obviously are not too concerned with justice in the first place, they just don't care.

Analogy to "voltage"

[tepples]

It appears that they use "cube" rather than "volume" for the same reason people mention "voltage" rather than "potential"; some people name the property by the unit used to measure it. Hence "cube" for volumes measured in cubic feet to fit in a trailer.

Re:Analogy to "voltage"

[rah1420]

Yeah, "cube" is a logistics term when dealing with "shippable volume in a vessel."

I've seen it used in OTR trucks, cargo ships, rail and intermodal transport.

Even though my main function is EDI, much of my work is with the logistics people; we send out Advance Ship Notices, for example, to the customer to let them know what's going to be on the trailers when they get to the distribution centers.

Shoplifting from Wal-Mart

[madwurm]

Shoplifting from Wal-Mart and then returning it without a receipt works pretty good too. :)

Re:Shoplifting from Wal-Mart

[whiskeypete]

Until you're caught... Ever notice the little camera thingy's on the ceiling?

Re:Shoplifting from Wal-Mart

[arose]

In Wal-Mart camera notices YOU!

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[YukiKotetsu]

I don't agree with the CEOs driving a company into the ground, walking away will millions, and maybe having to pay back a few bucks but ends up filthy rich for destroying a lot of people.

I also do not agree with the logic of "well, he got rich by stealing, so I can do it too" or "well, he screwed so many people over, so it's okay if I steal some on my behalf."

A tsunami just killed some 120,000+ people, so it must be alright for me to go kill a few people I don't like. I mean, the difference between 120,000 and the 3-4 I'd kill is so vast, it must be okay. Replace tsunami with war, terrorism, 9/11, holocaust, whatever - and that's just what you told me.

You say it is okay to steal from companies because some CEO screwed over a lot of people and got rich off of it.

I don't agree.

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[YukiKotetsu]

I'd have to agree that they aren't concerned with justice, or just not caring.

Greed is the overall motivating factor in humanity, and I see it more and more every day.

Accomplice?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm trying to imagine how easy this gets when you have an accomplice (just one, say your best friend) who is the one working the register. "That's a good price for a TV." "Nice price on that new PC." "Have a nice day."
I think the hardest part would be NOT looking like a lunatic by laughing out loud.
Of course your risk of this person rolling over on you is reduced (but of course not eliminated) by the fact that their hands are dirty as well. And I'm sure that all the people that work for Wally World are very, very loyal to their caring employer ;)

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[Nikker]

Were you aware of possiblilty of scammy wally mart the way TFA shows before today?

If not, now that evreyone knows (including wally himself) do you think this is likely to happen in the future? Probably not.

Now a bunch of people are having a pissing contest on a very widely viewed blog and basicly patching the rest of the holes for wally et al. If you took your head out of the sand you would understand what is happening around you. Do you really think that me and you are the only ones reading this?

Well if these guys were really smart they would have stolen much more and said squat. Now that wally is waiting for that pickup line it wont work.

So really, what is your problem?

Doesn't add up-Customers always right.

[Anonymous Coward]

"But we did it to keep people happy..."

Isn't that always the outcome of "the customers always right"?

Easiest thing in the world.

[Anonymous Coward]

With technology today this is almost too simple to do. There's this neat little device called a Docupen, a little handheld portable scanner that can store up to 100 pages in memory. Just goto walmart (or any store), scan a good 100 items into it, and you can print whatever item at your leisure, 32mb CF card UPC to get that 1gb card etc.

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[rusty0101]

I look at most of those posts and think of them in the same sense as posts on how to make a nuclear bomb. There are actually a lot of people who have access to a large percentage of the material as well as the technical knowledge and resources necesary to construct one. You or I may not have ready access to fisionable materials in the quantities and purety necessary, but even if you or I did, that would not make it at all likely that we would create a nuclear bomb.

Do I have the resources to do UPC label creation and swaping. What I don't already have at home I can easily pick up at a local office max, or office Depot. Possibly even at the very stores mentioned in the article.

I look at the responses earlier in the listing as "Idiots, if you are going to do this, you need to do it this way..."

If I were to decide to use UPC relabling at Best Buy to get that great new 42" LCD HDTV, I would visit first, find a manufacture with both a 42" LCD HDTV, and a 35" LCD HDTV, write down the UPC for that 35" edition, go home print up an approprieate sized copy of that to overlay the UPC on the 42" edition, then during a busy time at Best Buy, go in, put the 42" set on a cart, go stand in line, and while waiting in line discreatly overlay the UPC.

Now note I began that with 'If I were to decide..' I honestly have no interest in doing this. I may like the idea of having a 42" LCD HDTV, but I happen to have worked for the stuff I own, and I have no interest in changing that.

I don't have a justification for such an action, as I have no interest in performing the action. That doesn't mean that I can't participate in the thought experiment, or write about what I know about the topic in question.

-Rusty

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[Brakz0rz]

Or maybe I'm pro revolutionary upheaval including the destruction of enourmous corporate/media entities.

Every little bit helps y'know.

How dumb were these people?

[bizitch]

I mean they could have gotten away with it if they had avoided returning goods to the store.

I'm guessing this is how they got caught - all retailers track who you are whenever you return things

Shady, but probably legal-EULAs

[Anonymous Coward]

The same argument used against EULAs.

The Decay of [Society]

[Anonymous Coward]

Now extrapolate the consequences of people illegally downloading movies, music, books, games, etc. Makes you wonder why people can't see the train coming?

Well no one's accused humanity of being far-sighted.

"Raise them up well and they'll not stray".

[Anonymous Coward]

"I don't have a justification for such an action, as I have no interest in performing the action. "

And what exactly is that intangible that means that one person would, and another wouldn't? And more importantly, how does the rest of the world tell the difference?

His basic point that crimminals don't care is correct. The fact that the innocent pay is what seems to be missing from the social consciousness. It's like seeing the "effect", while missing the "cause".

There truely are no victimless crimes. Only who's the victim, and to what degree?

Re:"Raise them up well and they'll not stray".

[Alsee]

There truely are no victimless crimes. Only who's the victim, and to what degree?

Except of course when idiot legislators pass a law creating one.

-

Re:"Raise them up well and they'll not stray".

[rusty0101]

The point I got from his message was that he interpreted many of the postings as advocating or recomending that people do perform theft, and 'this is how they should do it.' His question was what justification do you have for these actions.

My own response is that I do not interpret the posts in the same way, in fact I see the posts as a scathing commentary on the stupidity of people getting caught doing this, with commentary indicating that there is far more efficient methods of doing the same thing. The fact that there are far more effecient methods does not mean that those methods are any more recomended, or justified than the actual crimes commited, and since they are not recomending those acts, there is no need to justify them.

His question is still valid, but not directed (for the most part) at the posters. His question is more accurately directed at people who decide to act upon those comments. What is their justification for commiting these acts?

Perhaps as you note, they really do not care, and may not even attempt to justify those actions. However he does note that in nearly every situation of IP or other property theft, the thief does do some form of justification: It cost too much for mey to buy it so I stole it; The organization doesn't pass on the money to the crative people; The manufacturer uses slave labor; etc. These are 'justifications', not 'care'.

-Rusty

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[Grishnakh]

I don't agree either, but your analogy is completely wrong.

The tsunami was a natural event. It (probably) had nothing to do with humans at all; we were just caught by surprise.

CEOs committing fraud, however, is different, because these people are committing crimes that hurt far more people than most thieves do. But whereas these small-time thieves get jail time, the corporate executives get off filthy rich. This isn't caused by anything in nature; it's caused by corruption in the judicial systems. It's a complete failure by our government, and by extension, our society, to make us all live by the same rules, and to honor the promise that we're all equal and no one is more special or important that another because of their money, social status, etc. It's a big slap in the face to all of us who were taught as children that our society was one where everyone, rich or poor, was subject to the same laws.

I can certainly see how some people could get fed up with not being able to get ahead in life, and then seeing these rich people doing all kinds of horrible things and the "authorities" simply looking the other way, and use this to justify their actions. It's wrong, because it just leads to the complete destruction of society (such as it is), but it does make a certain sense if you've decided you no longer care about society.

Holy shit!

[Civil_Disobedient]

Is there anything Google can't do?

"Set and Forget" government.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I can certainly see how some people could get fed up with not being able to get ahead in life, and then seeing these rich people doing all kinds of horrible things and the "authorities" simply looking the other way, and use this to justify their actions. It's wrong, because it just leads to the complete destruction of society (such as it is), but it does make a certain sense if you've decided you no longer care about society."

Points noted. However I'd ask those who are "fed up", were you at the ballot box? Were you at the statehouse? Were you at the community meeting? Were you at the shareholder meeting? Were you not trying to get out of jury duty? The point being is that a fair and just society requires people to participate. It's NOT a "set it and forget it", nor "hands off" affair. The sooner people realize this, the sooner we can get back to the society everyone claims they want.

Re:"Set and Forget" government.

[Grishnakh]

However I'd ask those who are "fed up", were you at the ballot box? Were you at the statehouse? Were you at the community meeting? Were you at the shareholder meeting? Were you not trying to get out of jury duty? The point being is that a fair and just society requires people to participate. It's NOT a "set it and forget it", nor "hands off" affair. The sooner people realize this, the sooner we can get back to the society everyone claims they want.

This sounds all well and good, but the harsh reality is that most people simply don't have time for much of this. With both spouses having to work full-time jobs to support their kids and afford reasonable housing, most people who aren't in college or still single just don't have a lot of spare time to dedicate to trying to change things. Not that I'm excusing people for not doing anything, but you need to look at the whole picture.

As for ballot boxes, with a government as gigantic as ours, individuals just don't count a lot (unless they have lots of $$$ for campaign donations). And when it's apparently so easy to fleece millions of voters, it's easy to become disaffected. Your one vote isn't going to help much when you have millions of idiots voting against you.

And as for shareholder meetings, this is one of the big problems with our society. I don't like BestBuy's tactics, but I can't walk into their shareholder meeting and tell their CEO what I think of them. I'm not a shareholder. Same goes for Microsoft, or any other corporation I don't happen to own stock in. These companies do all kinds of things that affect us all (especially their political donations), but are not answerable to the public whose lives they are altering. With government at least, there is some accountability. With corporations, there is none.

Personally, I think many changes need to be made to make sure people can stay engaged, and are able to both spend more time with their families, and more time doing civic duties, voluteering, etc. One thing we hear a lot in comparisons between western Europe and the US is quality-of-life issues. In Germany, for instance, 6 weeks is the standard amount of vacation people get each year. Most people in the US only get 2 weeks (and that's only if they're full-time; part-timers are SOL). I feel priveleged to get 3 weeks at my company. In France, people only work 35 hours per week. The uber-capitalists here complain that that means they do less work, but on the other hand they get more time off. Here in the US, we need more changes like this; spending so much time at work is just not healthy for society.

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[T-Ranger]

Even better would be a 24" LCD HDTV, and head for the checkout with the dyslexic clerk...

Load your own... buy some reloading gear.

[Nick Driver]

At last count I own 6 pistols, 1 shotgun and 5 rifles.

Dude, if you own that many guns and do a lot of practice shooting, then you really should buy some reloading equipment and load your own ammo. I didn't believe it was all that much cheaper until I bought some RCBS reloading equipment and started doing it myself either, and in just two years' time, I have saved enough money over store-bought ammo to have paid for my reloading gear. Another big benefit is that I can load my ammo as hot or light as I want, and control the weight of the bullet and powder charge very precicely with a digital scale that I get ultra-consistant results just like using expensive match-grade ammo but at a fraction of the cost.

I buy a lot of my stuff from Midway and am very satisfied with their prices and service. Another reloading place with a good reputation is F & M Reloading but I've never shopped with them yet, so YMMV.

My favorite time to reload is whenever we have crummy weather all weekend long and there's nothing else to do except staring at the TV of playing video games. Reloading can be tedious work, but yet it is rewarding knowing that you're saving money and making yourself a fine crafted product by hand that's superior to what your buddies buy off-the-shelf.

Re:Load your own... buy some reloading gear.

[tylernt]

Let me chime in about Midway USA too... about the only place on the internet that doesn't charge outrageous shipping and handling fees. Even heavy items like bullets (bullets, not loaded ammo!) didn't cost an arm and a leg to ship. I'd go on, but I don't want to sound like a Midway salesman. :)

Re:Wal-Mart, the apotheosis of mediocre consumptio

[Anonymous Coward]

You obviously miss the entire point.

I'd explain, but you aren't worth my time.

Re:Wendy's mistake

[zakezuke]

What's worse is when you point out they give you too much change and they give you more change. And point out the error again and they give you even more change, more than you paid in the first place. I don't understand because they have a register that clearly says how much you owe, how much you paid, and how much change you should get back.

This only happens to me on roadtrips.

Phone Losers of America

[concordeonetwo]

This scam has been suggested in a old issue of the popular phone phreaking site (and former BBS), Phone Losers of America.

How to break walmat via UPC (not monetarily)

[telemonster]

Okay, so you don't like walmart. You think they harm your community. You want to stage a protest. Here is something you can try.

The barcode scanners for most point of sale systems are configurable via bar codes. That's right, the setup procedure involves scanning special barcodes to set the unit up. If you were to find out what brand units they are (probably Symbol), you could potentially get a PDF version of the manual which includes the configuration barcodes.

If you could organize for friends to all hit various check out lanes near the same time, you should be able to reconfigure the checkout scanners to a different baud rate or UPC format so it will no longer read the standard barcodes. This would make the register unusable. The first thing done would be for all of the people to jump to other registers, which you have already walked by and scanned your reconfiguration tag across, which means they won't work.

It would probably take the service technicians a while to figure out, but once they did they would be able to fix all checkout lanes rapidly.

The fraud of UPC barcodes should be eliminated soon with deployment of RFIDs. Of course, new games might be possible like a huge plasma tv generator in your car... park in front of a walmart, and all RFID scanners constantly ring up a very expensive item.

Ya'll hold back now - ya jamming my frequency.

Re:How to break walmat via UPC (not monetarily)

[JRHelgeson]

This would not work as the registers or scanners need to be placed into configuration mode manually before the barcodes would have any effect.

Keep in mind that the barcode is simply an effective method of entering a sequence of digits into a computer and it is often interfaced with the keyboard port on the computer itself... Scanning a custom barcode will only enter the sequence of digits that would result in a "UPC NOT FOUND" error.

Cultural differences

[Anonymous Coward]

" I worked in the Sporting Goods department -- so I sold ammunition and guns."

is this the most insane thing anyone has ever read? see how naturally he said that???

i dont know about you but to me, killing people isnt really a sport.

dont people play soccer anymore? seriously.. AMMO AND GUNS??? WTF KIND OF CRAZY SPORT ARE YOU TRYING TO PLAY??

Re:Cultural differences

[jareds]

Ammo and guns??? WTF kind of crazy sport are you trying to play?? [Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted! Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.]

Hunting or target shooting.

actually, wouldn't be

[geekoid]

nirvana (heh) if they could get more then 4000 cube? ;)

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[Anonymous Coward]

Wal-Mart is evil. I wouldn't give them any money. Therefore, it is impossible for me to "steal" anything from them. I am merely liberating their goods.

Not criminals, HEROES! =)

[Anonymous Coward]

Are any of you guys aware of WalMart labor and economic practices? Not to mention that they're major tools of the Right Wing? These criminals are modern day Robin Hoods. They're heroes, HEROES I tell ya! This could be a fantastic tool for revolutionary types to thwart the industry. =)

WAL*MART is not alone

[geekoid]

Kmart takes retruns from anybody for any reason. with the standard "screw you" for computer games, cds , dvds...
Target used to, don't know if they still do.

I do know...

[Firethorn]

i dont know if i would say something if i saw someone say... opening a video card box at best buy and shoving a raedon down thier pants (or putting it in a bag

I would. That person is raising the costs of the store I'm shopping at, therefore raising the price they can sell at. In a indirect way, they're stealing from me. I'd tell management about it.

but if someone is poor and can't afford food

There's plenty of programs out there. There were a few countries that decriminalized theft of food. It was a disaster.

inventory shrinkage is a fact and people who work in retail know that.

And people look at anti-theft systems based on shrinkage amounts, the cost of the system and it's effectivness. Why does walmart hire secret shoppers at a cost of $20 an hour? Because they're worth it. Why do they install those detectors? Again, even though they cost thousands of dollars, it ends up saving them money. Walmart is all about the bottom line.

Me too.

[Firethorn]

I've done this a couple times with small items. I'll be shopping without a cart, pick it up and stick it in a coat pocket. It's annoying because I then have to turn around go back and buy it(Yes, I am that crazy honest).

Of course, as a kid I was notorious at the local bookstore for picking out my books, realizing that I don't have the money, walking out with the books to the local ATM, getting the money, walking back and paying.

Fortuantly my mother and I were well known good customers at that store.

Re:Me too.

[Rick and Roll]

Stick it in a coat pocket? I'm surprised the loss prevention people haven't come after you.

And the fact that you've actually reasoned it out and haven't arrived at the conclusion that maybe you shouldn't stick it in your coat pocket is amazing.

I can't understand people who realize they do something stupidly and don't try to correct it.

Re:Me too.

[Firethorn]

A couple times. Also, I don't dress like a punk, don't live in the city, or fit the profile. By the time I get to the checkout I've been through the whole store and am likely carrying a number of other , more expensive products.

I've also stopped the habit.

Re:Thieves

[Anonymous Coward]

I have switched hundereds of price tags and barcodes at Mal-Wart and various other stores. I also have packed the pockets of sundry clothing items with small merchandise. And also backpacks with larger goodies.

I've never shoplifted in my life. I've never purchased any of the items with switched tags, or loaded cavities.

I enjoy doing these acts of *vandalism* not *theft* because the store has pissed me off in some way, and because I am a Misanthropic son of a bitch.

The thought of A) the headaches I give the security staff, and B) some random person getting hauled 'upstairs' to talk to some harsh and accusatory goons about their supposed 'cleptomania' after the cashier pull out items from the pockets of the jeans they were trying to buy, or when they notice that the 'cat food' looks more like a TV make me feel warm inside.

And when a customer looks at their recipt and finds on their recipt that they paid $20.00 for an electric shaver they didn't buy they won't notice the fact that the 99 cent light bulb in their bag wasn't on the recipt.

I do it to instigate strife and ill will between customers and the store which hurts their bottom line.

And because I don't like most people I can take sadistic pleasure in the shopping experiences I've ruined that are 'on average' those of people I'd not like if I met them.

And it makes 'em question their assumptions. Maybe grandma *DIDN'T* try to buy a CD player for the price of a CD by switching barcodes, maybe someone like ME has struck again! But if she DID try to steal, you can bet she and all her friends will know what softies Mal-Wart are if they treat her with kid gloves and Mal-Wart'll get cleaned out.

Doubt Uncertainty CHAOS! Mwaa haa haaa!

Fun Facts with Guns

[Firethorn]

This gets hilarious in some states when you use your Concealed Carry permit for identification during the purchase because it makes it easier.

Then they have the manager walk the new, in box, unloaded firearm out for you.

For crying out loud

[hawk]

I am a lawyer, but this is not legal advice. If you need legal advice, contact an attorney licensed in your jurisdiction rather than reading the above nonsense.

This is wrong on so many labels that it's tough to decide where to start.

It is well established that advertising is not an offer to sell, but a statement of terms on which the merchant is willing to do buisiness. In those cases, the offere is found to be by the customer, not the ad.

A machine is clearly not authorized to entertain offers, nor to accept or reject them.

No reasonable person can maintain that he thought the cashier was authorized to accept terms that he deliberately hid from the cashier . . .

But even if we get past this idiocy, both the doctrines for unilateral and mutual mistake come into play.

The crook, err, putative customer not only *should* know that the other party is making a mistake, but has *actual knowledge* of this fact. Furthermore, the crook is not innocent in this matter.

Mutual mistake would also set aside the contract, as the actual item and the purported item were inconsistent.

And then there's the matter of fraud; the presentation of the item for checkout is sufficient for a statement, which is known to be untrue, with the intent that the other party rely upon it, causing damage.

There's no "probably" legal here at all; it's not even arguable.

hawk, esq

just modify the damn stickers

[tentimestwenty]

You could just put some raised bumps on the stickers so that a new one wouldn't stick nicely, or would easily be caught by "feel".

Non-returnable bottles transformed into returnable

[tm1rules]

I thought about using that scheme on bottles that had their labels peeled off. Print out a bar code of a returnable bottle, and paste it on. The possibilities are endless!

"Set and Forget" government-No time.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Personally, I think many changes need to be made to make sure people can stay engaged, and are able to both spend more time with their families, and more time doing civic duties, voluteering, etc. One thing we hear a lot in comparisons between western Europe and the US is quality-of-life issues. In Germany, for instance, 6 weeks is the standard amount of vacation people get each year. Most people in the US only get 2 weeks (and that's only if they're full-time; part-timers are SOL). I feel priveleged to get 3 weeks at my company. In France, people only work 35 hours per week. The uber-capitalists here complain that that means they do less work, but on the other hand they get more time off. Here in the US, we need more changes like this; spending so much time at work is just not healthy for society."

Understood. However I really don't buy the "not have time" argument. Apparently people have time to do all those illegal things from copyright infringement, to UPC code swapping, to speeding, and so forth. They apparently even have time to organize and execute revolutions. But they don't have time to do what they should have been doing all along. As for the "I'm not a shareholder", but you are a consumer with a monetary vote. Use it. The only vote that doesn't count, is the one not used. America is going to have to make some hard decisions, and people will have to "make time" or else.

Re:"Set and Forget" government-No time.

[Grishnakh]

Understood. However I really don't buy the "not have time" argument. Apparently people have time to do all those illegal things from copyright infringement, to UPC code swapping, to speeding, and so forth. They apparently even have time to organize and execute revolutions. But they don't have time to do what they should have been doing all along. As for the "I'm not a shareholder", but you are a consumer with a monetary vote. Use it. The only vote that doesn't count, is the one not used. America is going to have to make some hard decisions, and people will have to "make time" or else.

I disagree with this. Just because some people have a lot of free time on their hands doesn't mean everyone does. Teenagers and college students are certainly the most prolific file-traders, but they're also notorious for having a lot of free time. I wish I had all the free time now that I did then. Working people (especially if they have kids) simply don't have much free time in modern society, between 9-14 hours of work each day, doing chores at home, staying up all night feeding the infant, and trying to spend some time with the spouse so their marriage doesn't fall apart. As for speeding, that's not something that takes extra time (unless you're caught of course), it's something that saves time (a little or a lot is up for debate).

Monetary votes are useful, but only in a limited way. I think Best Buy is evil, and I don't shop there, so I'm exercising my monetary vote there. But lots of other people somehow don't mind being coerced into purchasing extended warranties and overpriced accessories, and continue to shop there; there isn't much I can do about those people. I'm only 1 out of 390 million. Back in the old days before multinational corporations became commonplace, and businesses were typically much smaller, your monetary vote had a lot more sway. Mom n' Pop's neighborhood electronics store had a lot more to lose if you stopped shopping there than Best Buy does.

Always lower prices

[GreggBert]

Always...

I love stores like walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

With their "yearly pay raises" that are always behind the rate of inflation, so it's effectively a pay cut, too bad the people working in the stores are too dumb to figure it out. Not only that but eligibility for health care is 28 or 30 I can't remember correctly, so everone works 26.

Walmart just makes me feel depressed when I go in, so dark and dreary, Target atleast looks nice.

Warning

[GregoryD]

I suggest any of you thinking about trying this now that you saw it on slashdot, don't do it.

You will get caught. Maybe not the first or second time, but you will mess it up sometime and get caught.

Even if you do it perfectly, someone like me who pays attention will catch you.

I've been in the room when the police slapped the handcuffs on too. I got 50 dollars in gift cards for catching them.

remember, some nerdy down on their luck cashiers read slashdot too

/cashier who has been catching people do this since 1999...

Re:Warning

[Anonymous Coward]

You aint caught me yet with your minimum wage miserable existence. One must continue to improve techniques especially when errors are aired for the public to know and the system core remains flawed!

Just wait till you roll out wholesale RFIDs for price tags and start getting those hacked and prices rolled back on all items with them. You wont be getting a measly handout to buy acne medicine from a mega greedy mega corp for catchin me.

Here is a warning for you:
No matter how much Wal*Mart thinks they brainwash their masses, those that realize the shafting they are getting from the greedy giant do leak information. Information is power.

Everything you want, Half Price! (or better)

[JRHelgeson]

I've been warning of this type of scam going on for YEARS! Just read my Journal entry from September 2003. I have coinded a term for this type of theft, I call it Barcode Scamming and it is on the rise. It is becoming a HUGE problem for retailers and they're just waking up to it. It is for this very reason that we MUST move to RFID and retire from this easily defrauded system.

On the recieving end

[The Grey Clone]

My family's been on the recieving end of a similar situation.

My father's mother always gives him a gift card to Sears for Christmas. Last year, when he went to use his card, he bought some sort of All-in-one stereo package with a dvd player. Well, when we opened the box, instead of finding a DVD player, we found all sorts of old software and manuals. The only name I can remember was Corel 3, but we had at least 2,000 pages of manuals in that box. I don't even know where one would get that kind of retro-software today.

At first it was really funny. But then the laughing turned to confusion. Then the confusion turned to anger. We're gonna have to waste our damn time going up to Sears and trying to convince them that we're not the ones ripping them off.

Needless to say, it took about an hour and four employees to get them to take it back. Eventually, all they would say was "It must have been an inside job and we'll investigate." LMAO. An inside job? It seems like a lot of effort/work to get a sub-200 dollar system.

Re:Stupid is as Stupid does

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn right, uh EBAY YOU DUMMIES???

Course other non traceable black market avenues would be better but first thought.

Props for pointing this out!

Re: Answer is simple

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people just don't give a fuck.

When your economy is crap and getting worse and inflation is out of control and you are discriminated against because you cannot buy pieces of paper that proove you can memorize you start to get desperate. Desperation leads to all sorts of things not normally done much less considered. Look at suicide bombers/attackers, they come from predominatly poor and historically impoverished areas and don't have much to look forward to. Never underestimate what a cornered animal will do, or one that is perceived they are cornered.

victimless "crimes"

[cas2000]

> There truely are no victimless crimes. Only
> who's the victim, and to what degree?

there are MANY victimless "crimes" - sale and use of some, currently-illegal, drugs, prostitution, oral sex, adultery, pre-marital sex, blasphemy and so on....i.e. any attempt to legislate one person's "morals" onto everyone else.

whether or not any of these are crimes depends on what jurisdiction you live in (or commit these acts in).....but they're all victimless, and thus not real crimes.

actually, if you meant that there are no victimless crimes because there can't BE a crime WITHOUT a victim then yes, I agree with you 100%...but it didn't seem like that is what you meant.

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[OldManAndTheC]

Self-justification of stealing is still just stealing and it makes me sick.

You see, there's this thing called the Social Contract. It isn't written anywhere, but we all ascribe to it, not because we want to, but because society would fall apart without it.

Of course, we are not perfect, so we bend the Contract on occasion. People do it by shoplifting, or pilfering, or swapping barcode labels. Companies do it by outsourcing, or denying valid insurance claims, or bullying employees into voting against unionization, just to name a few.

Our behavior is a natural consequence of our primal desire to get ahead by whatever means necessary. Without getting caught. That doesn't make it right, I know.

It's a war of sorts. A cold war, between producers and consumers. You can fight, or you can surrender, or you can continue the low-intensity conflict ad infinitum, which appears to be the choice of many consumers.

Probably illegal

[tyler_larson]

Imagine you're at your local wal-mart. You pick up something expensive--but relatively light--from the back of the store. An SD memory card or something. You head to the front of the store to the self-checkout stand. But when you're about to scan the memory card, you notice the rack of candy bars in front of you. They weigh about as much as the memory card in your hand. You grab butterfinger bar and scan it instead, put the memory card in your bag, and the candy bar back on the shelf.

Clearly that's theft. You've paid for the candy bar, and could legally take it home. But you decide to take home the memory card instead.

UPC code switching is exactly the same dance, but a little more difficult to catch.

Now if Wal-Mart had incorrectly labeled the memory card with a butterfinger barcode, the story may be different. But they didn't.

2600

[Raven_Zero]

You know this scam was in an old issue of 2600 and it wasn't that hard to do.

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[stonecypher]

I'm not sure if it's the lack of morals, or just the lack of brainpower

I for one am not entirely convinced that these are seperate issues.

MOD PARENT UP!

[Anonymous Coward]

(I've always wanted to say that)

Re:Somehow I'm not surprised at quite a few respon

[Maestro4k]

• Everyone has some kind of justification, I bet these criminals had some as well. They did not want to work, found the system easy to exploit, and wanted free money... what better reason is there really? Sure, they are "innocent until proven guilty" I suppose.

As others have pointed out, most of this is just talk, an intellectual exercise. After all this is a use of technology, and it's interesting to think about how you'd go about it if you were so inclined.

But there's another side you missed that's even more important to note. If none of the "good" guys take the time to think about how they would get lower prices, steal merchandise, etc. then stores wouldn't be able to try to defend themselves ahead of time. Every store I ever worked at in the past, from a lowly Revco (CVS nowadays) up to K-mart and Wal-mart cover loss prevention in training, and how do they train you on it? They show you how it's done. They show you how people will stuff things in a purse or backpack hoping you won't notice. The show you how people may swap UPCs, so you should watch the prices and description, they show you that they'll try to switch signs around, and so on. Does that make the folks doing the training criminals because they tell us how shoplifters work, and in the process how you can shoplift?

Revenge Technique?

[herbierobinson]

I wonder if this is illegal if you slapped the wrong barcodes on a large number of items, but didn't buy them? Like if you just wanted to get back at the store for something. Remarking things with higher prices might make them even more annoyed, because it would back up the checkout lines...

Re:Revenge Technique?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here are more ideas.
15 things a man can do at Wal-Mart -
while his wife is taking her sweet time:

1. Get 24 boxes of condoms & randomly put them in people's carts when they aren't looking.
2. Set all the alarm clocks in Housewares to go off at 5 minute intervals.
3. Make a trail of tomato juice on the floor leading to the restrooms.
4. Walk up to an employee and tell him/her in an official tone: 'Code 3 in Housewares' . . and see what happens.
5. Go to the Service Desk and ask to put a bag of M&M's on lay-away.
6. Move a 'CAUTION - WET FLOOR' sign to a carpeted area.
7. Set-up a tent in the Camping Department -- and tell other shoppers you're sleeping over; invite them in if they bring pillows from the Bedding Department.
8. When a clerk asks if they can help you, begin to cry and ask: "Why can't you people just leave me alone?"
9. Look right into the security camera, use it as a mirror and pick your nose.
10. While handling guns in the Hunting Department, ask the clerk if he knows where the anti-depressants are.
11. Dart around the store suspiciously, while loudly humming the theme from "Mission Impossible."
12. In the Auto Department, practice your "Madonna look" using different size funnels.
13. Hide in a clothing rack . . and when people browse through, say: "PICK ME!!! PICK ME!!!"
14. When an announcement comes over the loudspeaker, assume the fetal position and scream, "NO!...It's those voices again!!!"
And last but not least:

15. Go into a fitting room, shut the door and wait a while . . . then yell loudly: "There's no toilet paper in here!"

My response to the scam is, what comes around goes around.
How many customers have they scammed when shelf and sales prices don't reflect scanned bar code.
I challenged a cashier one time but she said it was too late, had to stand in customer service line for a dollar. It wasn't worth my time, so I chucked it. Thats what wal-mart counts on.
Never have been at the zoo since then.

Re:Revenge Technique?

[krinsh]

Yes - the act of changing prices on products is illegal in and of itself; in most places it is considered the same as shoplifting.

WalMart Hires Illegal Aliens

[sncomputer]

$12.00 Day per Pay food = -$4.00 shelter =-$6.00 heat =-$2.00 net +$2.00 No benifits = Profit per Alien The Rich Get Richer....

cube and GTIN

[rah1420]

Some items have irregular shape

Luckily, my employer still uses square boxes for the cases (even if the products are irregularly shaped.)

Too, Item Data Sync involves GTINs, which exist at all levels of a consumer product - consumer unit, inner pack, outer pack, pallet. Each has its own GTIN, and each GTIN has its own attributes including cube and weight.

Cube quite handily describes what WE need to fill a trailer. :)

In your world...

[Firethorn]

The rich always get richer. Is that a bad thing, if the poor get richer too?

Looks a little wierd. Are you trying to say that walmart hires illegal aliens for $12 a day, and that the illegal spends $4 for food, $6 for shelter, $2 for heat, netting the illegal $2 profit per day. Of course, this adds up to $14, but still.

Hiring illegals is illegal. I think that it should be easier for them to enter legally, making it easier to make the immoral employers hire people legally.

I did some google searching, and it seems that most illegals don't earn anything close to that. If they're working at walmart, they've most likely forged papers to get the job. That means that they're paying withholding and taxes and all that.

Here's another one for you:
The employer hires a person on welfare "under the table" for x$ an hour. The income isn't reported or taxed.

Re:In your world...

[sncomputer]

Next time I will post this as .. Food for thought .. attempt at comedy, not to be taken literally, and definetly not resarched dept. If there was a more appropriate way to post this type of message please let me know and I will be happy to apply it in the future. Please put in the My first post dept. Thanks .... Happy New Year!

I live in a country where you can vote from jail.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's in the Canadian constitution. Citizen = right to vote. If there are enough people in jail that this makes a big difference, something is Deeply Wrong and the inmates are the obvious group to agitate for change.

I much prefer this to the american mess where racial differences in sentencing have created a noticeable racial bias in the voter rolls.

Who's the victim in the crime of sodomy?

[Anonymous Coward]

In some jurisdictions it's a crime to posess pictures of young children in sexual situations. Little Billy takes a picture of his hard-on. Nobody else sees it. But he has commitedd the crime of creating child pornography.

Really, use some sense, A crime is defined by legislation, which need not bear any rational connection to the existence of a victim, or indeed any connection to reality at all.

Off topic:

[TheBunk]

Where I am, the CVS' here used to be Dart Drug. I'm located in the DC metro area, northern VA to be exact. At least, this is all subject to my faulty memory, so milage may vary.

Easier trick

[Anonymous Coward]

The easier trick is to just put large items on the rack under the cart and then just forget they are there, I got a $65 cabinet like that the other day.