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Apple Sues Think Secret
Isaac Newton writes "Reuters is reporting that Apple Computer has sued website Think Secret for allegedly divulging trade secrets relating to its upcoming sub-$500 Mac desktop and office suite. The lawsuit is apparently giving legitimacy to the rumors."
This would certainly help more people hear more about Apple's new sub $500 Mac ;)
Poor Apple. Is this Osbourning their iMac sales or something?
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
An inexpensive PC and an office suite! All that is needed for Apple to rock the world. Now let's just hope they can manufacture enough of them to keep up with demand (that's always been their problem).
Well, it worked for the MPAA and RIAA.... ;)
Apple really needs to start spreading their own rumors. That way the correct to false rumors ratio could be kept in their favor and the effect leaked truths have on product launches would be lessened as fewer people would believe them.
Apple couldn't find the internal leak, so they're shooting the messenger.. Not the nicest tactic ever.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
It's not as if anyone else is allowed to produce a cheap Mac to compete with Apple (thus beating them to it), as Apple hold all the cards for that.
Cheap PC's already exist... so where is the competition that they are afriad of? Who can take advantage of this "trade secret"?
As far as I can see (not far having not RTFA) this is just good journalistic work, and good promotion for Apple.
I really like Apple. Though I had my share of problems with Apple products I generally think they make fine products and I definately prefer OSX to Windows.
/. will soon tell us why Apple is right in doing something that would certainly be considered evil by the /. crowd if any other company did it. Talk about a loyal followin.
But things like this really piss me of (excuse my language).
Doesn't Apple recognize, that sites like Think Secret actually help Apple? Just think about how many stories there are on the web about rumours that immanate from these kind of sides and how much exposure these stories give to Apple.
Ah well, but judging from experience, the Apple advocates on
Sometimes I find it amusing that while Apple has been constantly frightening the likes of Think Secret (enthusiast sites?), even with lawsuits, its supporters keep on supporting Apple, more than ever.
Try that with another company.
Also, whenever Steve Jobs is on the stands and giving a presentation (sometimes with questionable accuracies...), the audience seem to clap their hands every so often.
Maybe these are explained in the book "The Cult of Mac"?
I'm a fanboy as well. But Apple are right in doing this to one of the best rumour sites on the net. What if this information is false but because of it, their share price goes up and there is a geniune interest from investors. Only for the rumour to be false and thus they get hit by it.
Thats not to say however that they will succeed, I think they are after the people who leak information to TS. Im not up to date on american law, but wouldn't TS be protected by some sort of freedom of speech law.
In any case, I don't think Nick Depulme is bothered, he's still posting rumours on his site, even after the lawsuit! TS have just confirmed the ipod micro rumour.
Jonathanjk.com
Apple couldn't find the internal leak
Companies often provide information about product launches ahead of time with non-disclosure agreements. Perhaps it was a member of the press or some other non-Mac employee.......
And then paragraph 3 of TFA... claiming that Think Secret had induced these individuals to breach confidentiality agreements that they had signed with Apple. Perhaps that's what it was...
about our legal system being used for advertisement?
Looks like Apple are getting a taste of their own medicide; here's a report BBC News Online published this morning: iTunes User Sues Apple over iPod.
Whatever floats your boat, I've been a Windows user for many years now and have just recently purchased a 15" Apple Powerbook - I love it and will be buying a Dual G5 Desktop and Display soon. I'll make sure I get around to buying them a lot sooner to make up for the loss of your business.
Yeah right.
You need to take a reality pill as boycotts are all but dead in this day and age of consumerism.
You can win a lawsuit against someone who is reporting what someone else said. "Trade Secrets" are not some kind of 1st Ammendment exception. The guy who broke the NDA is in deep--but the guy who posted what he said is clean as far as I know. This is ridiculous.
MacSlash covered this before, check the comments there where the s/n ratio is lower.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Instead of Apple, if Microsoft had done the same thing, all slashdotters would have tied MS to a stake burned it by now. In fact, if any other company had done the same thing, it would have attracted a lot more negative responses from slashdot and everyone else than Apple. This is not the first time Apple is doing something like this. I remember some guy creating that OS X panel thing (whatever it's called) for windows (without taking anything from OS X) and Apple making him take it off the web because it infringed on their IP. I think it was called Yz dock. I guess Apple bigots are the worst.
It's not quite a sub $500 mac. It's headless for a start, so users are going to need to spend $100 for a half decent CRT, probably more. I don't know what the target market is, as Apple has always sold headless macs to the professional arena (PowerMacs are headless as a rule) but lower priced macs have been aimed at the home user. I hope for Apple's sake that they work out they need to bundle in a cheap Apple branded 17" CRT for $100 or so (Dell style).
Comment removed based on user account deletion
An Anonymous Coward posted the following in regards to the rumored Apple office suite on January 3rd, 2004:
As with all rumors, there's no need to believe it until Apple starts taking legal action against the rumor sites. Until then, you can assume that they probably missed the mark.
The posted was modded +5, Funny (60% funny, 20% insightful, 20% underrated).
Amen.
If it were Microsoft out to sue a rumormill site it would be evil
/. think its cool :-)
Since its Apple,
No. Even if they sue you, your post still won't be the first! :-)
Shouldn't the trade partner (or even the Apple employee) that let the information leave the company be held ultimately culpable ?
Maybe this is why IANAL
Doesn't Apple need to prove that the leak somehow hurt them?
I thought the rumors were helping... I had decided to hold on to my money in case these were real instead of building a video edit station for my home movies. I love my old B&W G3, but its just too slow to use on a daily basis for video editing. I would rather use iMovie on a $500 G4 at 1.25 GHz and I'm hoping it happens. Otherwise I've got stuff to order from newegg.
LiveJournal Buyout Confirmed Posted by CowboyNeal on Thursday January 06, @02:10AM Your Rights Online: Apple Sues Think Secret Posted by CowboyNeal on Thursday January 06, @06:35AM
A lawsuit is some of the best advertising you can do. It's probably cheaper, as well.
Well, I mean unless you're SCOX...
Funny, that's exactly what Andrew Orlowski said in the register Andrew? Is that you?
Wanna bet that when something finally comes out from M$, battered and bruised, it'll just be NT warmed up again with a new 'gadget' look.
When Apple sues the rumor mill is because they broke cardinal rule #1: They got *specific* about features for value.
M$ USES the rumor mill to pre-empt and choke off the competition (whatever's left) by claiming something *changed*. Apple can't do that.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Except that Apple has a somewhat legitimate gripe about people breaching their NDAs, but any sane judge will tell that iTunes user to go buy a different portable player, use another online music store, and shut the fuck up. The guy has NO CASE. Apple never made a secret of the fact that music downloaded from the iTMS won't work on any other portable player except the iPod. For that matter, neither do the other online music stores.
That guy is either a complete moron, or he's just looking for a quick buck and thinks Apple will pay him off to make him go away-- which I highly doubt they will.
~Philly
Sorry you're boycotted! :D
...came from The Register in the U.K.:
"Apple confirms MacWorld rumors with fresh lawsuit"
And indeed, when you read the specifics of what they are complaining about, you wonder why they bother at all. I mean, if they really wanted to deal with this more effectively they'd wait until AFTER the 11th. As it is now, they are simply confirming the rumors.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
"Apple has a point"
No they don't.
This happens in any other field. Cars, designer clothes, politics, entertainment, everthing.
And sometimes that information is inaccurate. And sometimes it puts that company is a really poor light.
And nobody sues. Oh. Except apple.
The real joke is that Apple only sues little guys... the guys who are hard pressed to defend themselves.
If these guys had a decent budget, they could sue the hell out of Apple. I'm hoping someone does, because Apple only bullies little tiny websites. They stay clear of anybodhy their own size.
And then people like you defend them. I just bought 3 new Macs, but honestly, people like you are the least enjoyable part of the Macintosh experience, because you'd defend Apple no matter what. You sicken me.
does anyone notice the submitter's name?
Isaac Newton?
Wasn't he that guy who allegedly got hit on the head by a falling apple and discovered gravity?
I wonder if he ever thought about suing the apple...
Interestingly/amusingly/somethingly, ThinkSecret has posted more "rumours" since the lawsuit was announced:
$149 1GB iPod is coming
"If someone picks up on that rumour, and if it gains legitimacy, people may be disappointed by the next real iPod."
Oh, how AWFUL for apple! They shouldn't have to put up with rumors! The world should be shaped for them so that only the information Apple wants should be doled out to the world.
Imagine people trying to talk about Apple in a way they don't approve of! Why... there ought to be a LAW to stop this kind of thing.
This is so so so hurtful to apple. I think people who try to have information about Apple that they don't want should be killed. Or worse.
he is right in calling it a monopoly product - they WON'T license FairPlay to anyone else, therefore the market is Apple iTunes *only*.
Ergo, monopoly.
"if i buy MS Office, then i need MS Windows "
No johnny. No you don't.
It works on the Mac as well.
Try again, but try not to be so stupid next time.
At least Apple isn't suing Think Testicles
- testicles.jpg&category=Clothing&date=2004-06-18
http://www.engrish.com/detail.php?imagename=think
free ipods
Paraphrased from the article: Apple believes Nick dePlume may be an assumed name.
I wonder what gave it away...
Also in the UK, the rumours actually made the news pages of The Independent - about a half a page long story on the subject in fact.
The final blow occurred in 1983, when Adam Osborne boasted about an upcoming product months before it could be released, killing demand for the company's existing products.
The rest of the computer industry learned that lesson very well - especially Apple.
Clear, Dark Skies
It's easy to guess how the lawsuit happened. Some Apple marketing person wanted to create a buzz about a new product, so he or she gave the information to someone sure to publish it.
Then, some Apple managers said to themselves, "This is our chance to act like Arnold Schwarzenegger! We will pretend that it's the end of the world, and only we can save it. May we'll even get on Slashdot, for free! We secretly believe that open source hardware is better anyway, so let's sink the company. We can always get jobs somewhere else, because we can say we worked for Apple!"
And, Apple lawyers agreed with this, for their own reasons. They said, "We're tired of writing those license agreements no one reads. We want to go outdoors! We want to kill, kill, kill, and be just like Arnold Schwarzenegger in those movies!"
The biggest friends of big business are the managers. The biggest enemies of big business are... the managers.
The alternative theory is whoever got the information got it from many difficult hours of sneaking around Apple headquarters. Yeah, right.
No one has a constitutional right to trade secrets. Then again, neither does Think Secret have a right to divulge them... Oh wait...
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Is Apple really that stupid, or is this just a clever marketing tactic from them in order to boost advertising for their new product even more?
And since when am I not able to speculate on technology?
Here's a secret for you all...nVidia is working on a top secret graphics card right now. Rumor has it, it will cost around $500, and will be 30% faster than the top of the line cards on the market!
You heard it here first...I have insider contacts and know all of the secrets! No wait, I made that up. Can I still be sued when the card comes out?
Karma? In other news, today dadybeef sued Gillette for reasons very similar to the posting above.
--beef
Think Secret has every right to publish that story, and every right to retain the identity of its source. Apple has every right to to sue them.
Being prepared to defend your right to keep your sources secret and to defend your right to publish is a cost of doing business of any new publication. Think Secret and other online publications don't get a free pass, but neither should they be exempted from the same standards that apply to and protect traditional publications.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
The iTunes suit is a farce, IMO. Apple permits burning to CD, and you can even use that CD in iTunes to "import" the tracks as MP3. There you have it, two ways to play a track on nearly any portable audio player.
I still question the idea of purchasing music as a pre-comressed data file, DRM'ed files at that. I'd much rather patronize my local used CD store, that way I don't get rights that might disappear if the computer or iPod crashes and I can't revoke its authorization. The files I can back up, sure, but if I hit my authorization limit then I'm screwed.
> Or, thinksecret can do what real journalists do and refuse to reveal their source
Christ man, you're talking about a computer rumor site relaying information from people with NDAs. This isn't exactly Valerie Plame. If a "journalist" gets involved in a lawsuit regarding sources, the question becomes one of ethics based on the public trust/greater good not some absolute, "I wont tell you who murdered that couple because I'm a journalist!!!" If you can't see the difference betweeen Watergate and Think Secret its time to step away from the computer for a long, long time.
Like the grandparent posted lawsuits like these are started to help the discovery process to find those who did break the NDAs. The manufactured outrage of "Big company goes after little guy" is paper thin and on par with the false outrage of the RIAA actually suing people for giving away their songs.
I'd much rather see a system which goes after unethical people because the alternative is to go after the technology itself. What I dont need is bittorrent made illegal or having special licenses to run a web server because a few rotten apples are ruining it for everyone else.
Not to mention Think Secret is a commercial site (it serves at least three ads on its pages) and its business model is to coax people to break NDAs and post them on the web soley for profit, not for greater good or whistleblowing, but for money and ego inflation. Not exactly Woodward and Berstein here.
Some people here reckon that "if it were Microsoft" suing rumour sites, then we here at /. would be ripping them a new bunghole. These people say that, because it's Apple doing the suing, we're letting them off with nary a flame.
/revoke/ previously announced features from previously announced products whose previously announced shipping dates have just been slipped by two years!! While Apple fansites try to guess what Apple will release next, MS fansites are left to try to guess what announced features might be left out!!
But... MS rumour web sites must be pretty boring. Not only do most rumours come from Microsoft themselves... most of them
Which is why the operators of Think Secret haven't been arrested and charged by the police.
It's a civil matter between Apple, the leaks, and Think Secret, thus the lawsuit.
That is, Apple could have absolutely no plans to market a cheapo iCrap. And some webby out their saying otherwise could actually screw with their suppliers and technology development partners who might feel blindsided.
As I said before - Apple is a high margin low volume company. They make $400 iPods they are probably not going to make iCraps for a 100 bucks more.
The company also said that it believes dePlume is an assumed name
Oh, that's rich.
I have thought for a long time that Think Secret had the sole intention of harming Apple.
... Think Secret's spin is - small Apple Reseller's weren't getting enough and the two hard drive suppliers probably wouldn't be able to keep up.
Their rumor accuaracy is amazing and it seems they like to steal any thunder they can from Apple.
They take any good news and put a negative spin on it such as; iPod sales. It is predicted that Apple will sell 4 million+ iPods this quarter
I have also believed that Think Secret's knowledge of the reseller lawsuit brought on MacAdam & Elite Computers is a little too intimate. It's almost like THIS is who's running the show there.
I think Apple should go after them for more than just "trade secret revealing and developer coercing" but also libel and malicious intent.
By The Time It Got To The Other End Of The Room: Notes About Apple Rumor Sites
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
One thing missing, is this isn't a real machine. Apple aren't actually going to produce a sub $500 mac any time soon, or any time at all. What Apple are suing over is the damage that hyping up expectations of an impossible machine is going to do for Apple.
After the keynote and there's no sub-$500 headless iMac or eMac, Apple is going to be a very unpopular company among the geek crowd. Of course that won't stop people from expecting it'll come out at the next event, or the next one, or the one after that...
see billpalmer.net for the sanest commentary on this ludicrousness.
RST
The windows media suit is correct by the way. A customer is being bundled WMP? poor soul, they cannot download real-player now. MS is teh evil
/.
only on
As great as a lot of Apple products are, and as tempted as I am over OS X, I could never be a happy customer of Apple because of their overzealous legal dept.
This is a long term trend. I've seen Apple sue people over the smallest, stupedist things and it sickens me, really. Especially, when they STOLE the damn name of their company from Apple records.
This was the last straw. F*** Apple, I fart in their general direction.
I call bullshit. I, as a linux user, gained respect for apple for doing the Darwin thing and Safari. I just lost that respect.
Why are people complaining about Apple trying to protect an unreleased/unannounced product? Apple contacted the site and requested that they remove the information from their site. The site decided to tell Apple "No". At this point, if Apple wants to protect what they are working on, the only real option they have at that point is to sue to the site to have the content removed.
While it might not seem like publishing this type of information is a big deal, but it can have lots of effects on Apple. If people hear about this new $500 computer they are supposed to release soon, they could lose business because people just continue to push off buying a new computer until this one is announced(if ever). I know I have been guilty of doing this. Before Apple released their G5 computers, there had been rumors for over a year that they were going to be released "any day now". I waited over a six months since they were supposed to be released so soon, but they never came. After I went ahead and bought my new G4, it was still another 5 months before they announced the G5.
I can hear it already, from the usuals:
"That video card sucks!"
"Not enough RAM!"
"A larger HD should be a must!"
etc...
And then it'll turn out to be a big seller anyway.
Fuck off AC --
:-)
I'd feel the same if it were Microsoft and I wish them all the ill feelings in the world.
That doesn't mean that folks should be allowed to kill business this way. Hell, maybe Microsoft would make better products if they were allowed some room to get to market without everyone breathing down their necks and could market towards having the best product -- not worrying about what competitor is going to come out with the same product and then claim that Big Bad M$ Stole My Idea (that I dead on a rumor mill).
But I repeat myself -- Fuck off AC
Apple doesn't have a leg to stand on. Thinksecret is a news and rumours site. They are in the business of printing information that is newsworthy to their readers.
Unless ThinkSecret broke into Apple (physically or electronically) and stole the info they published, they've done nothing wrong. If Apple sues them in a state with a good reporter's shield law they might not even have to disclose who gave them the information.
Who did what now?
And the deal is ... while waiting may transalate into hype and actually greater sales ... sales drop off dramatically whn rumors like this hit.
.... they have to announce far greater than expected earnings. If they don't meet sales goals (one reason being people have delayed their purchases right at the end of the quarter) then the stock is hurt. Shareholders are swindled by these sites.
Where this REALLY matters is if Apple has sales targets to meet for a certain quarter. Those expectations are approaching impossibly high for Apple. In order for Apple's stock to rise - nowadays
See my other post about Think Secret
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
"...any news sites have every right to report what they learn"
... learn not coerce
You said it well yourself
And they also have the journalistic responsibility not to libel or have malicious intent by posting their "news"
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
For misuse of the legal system for a start.
Depends on the state.
Might even get a RICO act thing going if somebody knows the DA.
"As I work for a company that is often the target of your rumour-mongering"
You're only complaining because we always say your products suck.
Which is not baseless. Your samples always sound like they came from a left-over Ensoniq barrel you bought off ebay.
Then you blame websites for your problems. Wow.
Make better products and stop getting all full of yourself.
Could this sort of thing set a bad precedent? IANAL so I'm curious could this argument be used in more serious cases where the public health is potentially put at risk, but that risk has not yet been established? Say in the case where company A claims that solvent XYZ is perfectly safe and disolves readily in water, but a paper discovers material that points out that there are a residuals that exist and the residuals may or may not cause health problems. If the residuals are ingredients in a compound that is patented and their existence in that compound considered a trade secret, might disclosing that they are in the compound be illegal and wouldn't that make it more difficult to even investigate their effects?
Modded down again. How can you say that this post is redundant? Looks like the mods are trying to hide any negative comments about Apple.
Apple computer are just another corporation - they are no different from Microsoft/Intel/AMD etc. If Apple was in the same position as Microsoft they would be just as bad. If Microsoft/RIAA/MPAA were to do this people would be appalled but for some reason when Apple does the same people can justify it.
Until now I used to be an Apple supporter - this post was written on an iBook G4 running Debian. Now I'm just sick of it and don't want to be supporting another company that tries to restrict people's free speech rights.
Hehehehe. This is not informative, it's Funny.
Now, RTFA: they not only don't know who are the leaks, they don't even know who is ThinkSecret. If I was ThinkSecret, I would say: "Your honour, I run a rumour site and I invent rumours all the time. I invented these."
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Yes!
The fact that the website published the information is simple freedom of speech. If they commited Libel or Slander, something that has damaged the Apple brand then that is a different story (and a bitch to prove BTW for a company that can easily get its CEO on the cover of Time Mag).
I find that there is debate at all on this truely astounding and unbelievably frustrating. The violator is the person who passed the information. Not the press! Apple has to prove that some person violated some DNA or whatever. You don't just get to shut of the press if you don't like the information being printed. I mean, unless you are Dick Cheney, then you can do whatever the F*&%ck you please.
Was Think able to learn these supposed "secrets?
Yes
Therefore, they were never secrets.
This post encoded with ROT26. If you can read it, you've violated the DMCA. Handcuffs please, sergeant.
Hmm, I have eaten many apples in my time,
At what point do ordinary 'open source' words become the property of Corporations?
apple, word, windows, etc.
The governments should take note that if a word
has been around for over 100 years and that word
is used to describe ordinary objects and concepts,
then that word can not be patented, trade marked, etc.
How about "accessory after the fact" or "dealing in stolen property"?
If Think Secret was reselling goods they bought from a thief would you insist they had done nothing wrong?
Clear, Dark Skies
Are you kidding? Have you read the complaint? It was written in crayon on the back of a Bob's Big Boy children's menu.
The idea that anybody has been forced to buy one of the most successful pieces of consumer electronics ever doesn't pass the laugh test.
I have to confess to being a little confused. In your first paragraph, you make explicit reference to the fact that iTunes songs can be burned to audio CD. In point of fact, Apple not only permits this, it strongly encourages this in all the Music Store instructions and whatnot.
Then, in your second paragraph, you advance a silly straw-man argument about how you might be unable to play your songs if (1) your computer crashes and (2) you are somehow mysteriously unable to reauthorize it.
I'm a little new around here, so please tell me how this works, exactly? Were you just hoping that you didn't flatly refute your second point with your first point?
"Apple, in the complaint filed on Tuesday, sued Web site Think Secret and other unnamed individuals, claiming that Think Secret had induced these individuals to breach confidentiality agreements that they had signed with Apple."
Ummm, so what? We're not dealing with government secrets, only private enterprise. The press "induces" people to spill secrets all the time. And thinksecret is the press here. If Apple has the right to sue anyone, it's the people who broke their confidentiality agreements. Not the press. I hope ThinkSecret gets a good legal team and shoves this right up Apple's ass. One wonders if free speech organizations will get involved with this, such as the ACLU (or do they only deal with the goverment? I don't know...). What we have here is a corporation trying to intimidate a news outlet. Pure and simple. Of course, Apple can do no wrong...
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Trade secrets... vs Freedom of speach...
I'm sure if Think Secret were selling the information to the highest bidder it would definately be a breach of trade secrets laws, but really when there only telling the world about what theve found out...
Why can't the private life of a film star be a trade secret too then?
Let's say that's true. So Apple should now sue you
One of these has to be true but I don't see the clear deliniation, unless it's
- you because you were under NDA
which isn't the ThinkSecret situation.My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
John Gruber of Daring Fireball has a nice piece on the lawsuit.
Wow, I never knew Apple had a right to sue a company into oblivion. I guess that doesn't hurt free speech.
Maybe EFF can help here, to help set a precident, or the ACLU if they're not too busy going after Boy Scouts.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
A simple web search shows that Intel routinely and vigorously defends itself against dissemination of its trade secrets. Is there any point in fishing through all the search results to look for cases against web sites? No: the point is that (like it or not) public companies have an obligation to their shareholders to aggressively find and plug leaks, no matter what form they take.
That makes you nothing more than a silly troll.
Yeah, maybe, but it's not as if ThinkSecret thought they were acting within the spirit of the law, or in the interests of Apple or the greater good, is it? They knew what they were doing and the risks they were taking, so it sounds like just desserts to me.
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
California has a pretty good Anti-SLAPP law, which I would hope will get Apple in a lot of trouble over this.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Yeah, maybe, but it's not as if ThinkSecret thought they were acting within the spirit of the law, or in the interests of Apple or the greater good, is it?
Ummm, don't journalists report on the internals of companies without their consent all the time? That's investigative journalism. It's not illegal.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
It's illegal to induce someone else to break their contract.
Tortious Interference
(N/M)
Here we see the classic anti-anti-MS defense, which holds that because some subset of Slashdot consists anti-MS zealots, anyone who defends any company for excercising legal rights must be a hypocrite. It's a rather transparent ad hominem attack, painting anyone who disagrees as not being the sort of person who's worth listening to, while completely sidestepping the issue of whether the defenses have any valid points. Apparently it was effective though, since the poster managed to insult all the defenders of Apple here several times without making any actual points, and got modded insightful for it. A very effective troll!
But then, if Microsoft posted this someone would mod it down, so anyone who mods me up must therefore be a hypocrite.
how do you know they haven't been spreading their own rumours... ;)
If Apple wanted to get information out there's a very easy way to do it. Let customers know what's coming down the pike. Microsoft gets it wrong plenty of times (WinFS or no WinFS - when's Longhorn shipping?) but at least there's an effort.
Y'know, just like HP and Microsoft and IBM and all the other industry players do so their customers and partners have some ability to plan for the future and aren't just sitting around waiting for the latest "oooh, ahhh" that Apple may or may not parade out on stage. Save the new ideas for that, like iMovie and GarageBand but gigahertz aren't an idea anybody is going to steal.
Yeah, it makes for some good theatre but this is the reason big business doesn't take Apple seriously - it has nothing to do with the quality of their wares or marketshare at this point.
A Mom&Pop may be able to play on whatever consumer goods come out with no warning, but any business medium or larger does planning, budgeting and forecasting. They don't have the time or appetite for this cloak-and-dagger crap.
Of course when Apple does make promises we wind up with 2.5GHz G5's almost two years later...
When Apple decides to grow up big business will be waiting.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I'm sure if Think Secret were selling the information to the highest bidder it would definately be a breach of trade secrets laws, but really when there only telling the world about what theve found out...
There's little difference between these two scenarios. According to the stuff I've read, Think Secret had signed a non-disclosure agreement (NDA). That means that they are not supposed to... well... disclose information.
Trade secrets can only remain secret if they are protected by NDAs. If I stumble upon a document covering the trade secret in their dumpster, and I have not signed an NDA, their trade secret is no longer secret.
If they breached an NDA in writing their public article, they opened themselves up to a legitimate lawsuit, and Apple has every right to sue.
It's a bad business move, since they speculation and hype will most likely help initial sales of the product and a lawsuit is rarely good for customer relations, but they are within their rights.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
"No other significant company is in the same position that Apple is in. For it to survive, it has to be able to periodically pull a rabbit out of its hat and surprise everyone with a new product, a new design."
It happens in every industry.
Cars
Fashion
Anything that is consumer driven.
You're just defending apple out of a misplaced sense of loyalty.
Why does apple get to trump the first amendment anyway?
Do threats count?
Apple suing to protect their trade secrets? How boring. Why don't they just "leak" a steady stream of false information to mix in with the real insider info. That way no one will know what's true.
Did someone say 100gb iPod?!Just say no to Apple. Overpriced hardware paired with L337 attitude. No thanks.
"No other significant company is in the same position that Apple is in"
It happens in every industry.
Cars
Fashion
Anything that is consumer driven.
You're just defending apple out of a misplaced sense of loyalty.
Why does apple get to trump the first amendment anyway?
Apple has to do something. These "rumors" are starting to show up in legitimate news media and investor site. When bloomberg reports of "rumors of a 500$ mac" and have a merrril lynch guy commenting on it, it starts to move out of the realm of just fun rumor mongering..
-
You were disappointed? So what?
I'm not being flip, but the law doesn't protect companies against "disappointment".
Apple has no right to limit speech because their customer may be "disappointed".
Seriously, think through the repercussions of what you're saying.
Consumer Reports shouldn't be critical of a car because it might "damage" sales of that car.
People Magazine shouldn't criticize a movie coming out because it will hurt the box office draw if it isn't positive.
I think some people are so pro-Apple they're missing the forest for the trees.
"Then, they do not sell a single powerbook in March."
So the apple market is so fragile that one website can single handedly destroy apple?
Wow.
Should comcastsucks.com be shut down because it might affect sales?
Where does the madness stop in your world? Or does it only stop if apple isn't involved. Why do you think Apple has special rights over things?
The entire purpose of maintaining trade secrets is to be able to give the competition as little time as possible to react... The hope here would be that Apple burst out with the product, and Microsoft and the PC manufacturers would be scrambling to react... by which time it'd already be too late and Apple would, as they have done with iMac and iPod in the past, rake in a chunk before the non-innovators in the industry knew what hit them.
The Apple customer base is characteristically known for its sense of community... we like Apple, their products, their ideology (well, the pre-Sculley, post-Amelio ideology of Steve Jobs)... we want to see them do well so we can continue to enjoy their products.
What kind of idiot ruins the surprise? The same kind of idiot that makes an entire business model out of telling you what you're bound to find out a few days later... Yes, I'm referring to that self-absorbed idiot who can't seem to stop stammering about his great comic book collection, Harry Knowles of Ain't It Cool News.
At any rate, Apple has a legitimate concern... and their concern affects not only their bottom line, but ours as well.
That is, unless there are any individuals here who really believe that Microsoft Windows is the most innovative, most productive operating system on the market, or that Microsoft Office is the most efficient, most cost-effective and most intuitively-designed productivity suite ever made...
Tell me son... when can President Bush sue the democrats?
Tell me junior... when can Comcast sue the "www.comcastsucks.com" website.
You're either trolling or retarded. Which is it?
"nd they also have the journalistic responsibility not to libel or have malicious intent by posting their "news"
The truth can never be malicious in a legal sense.
If I say "You have a big nose" and you actually have a big nose, then.... intent is useless, since you...have a big nose.
Please PLEASE stop this senseless defense of Apple. They're doing something stupid. Just say "Man, I love my Mac, but apple has their collective heads up their collective asses.
I dunno, the people most hurt by the possibility of a low end Mac that doesn't suck are companies selling Windows boxes to people who really want a Mac but can't justify spending a grand for crummy hardware.
It sure doesn't help Microsoft.
Unless the rumor's false, in which case what grounds does Apple have for a suit?
Think about it... with iPod acting as a loss-leader (well, really a profit-leader, considering the margins on those things) attracting many users away from PCs to Macs, and a swarm of W.32 exploits allowing viruses and trojan horses to trample Windows like the Vandals sacked Rome, and the increasing appeal of the Apple brand... what do you think a $500 iMac and a $49 (as opposed to $400) office suite means for them?
That's right... they're poised to drop the H-bomb on Microsoft. You're damned right I'd be pissed off if this were my moment of triumph being blown to shit by some impatient morons.Sorry dude, but your line of reasoning make Crazy Cabbie seem normal in comparison.
"I'll make sure I get around to buying them a lot sooner to make up for the loss of your business."
Maybe. But that would mean you graduate middle school, get a job, and buy a clue.
Stop lying on here, Apple Fanboy.
You're missing my point... the product is coming out anyway... but by letting the word out before the product is ready to hit the street, you're giving Microsoft a chance to formulate a reaction strategy. In management, we tend to be very protective of these secrets so as to maintain, especially in industries with as ridiculously brief product life cycles as personal computers. Every day's lead you have by protecting those trade secrets, increases your strategic competitive advantage... If you can get the drop on them with a truly brilliant innovation (such as a $49 office suite that runs circles around the competitor's behemoth)... by the time they formulate a strategy to counter the market share you just stole, it'll be too late. The sales momentum is largest within the first week of the product's release... after that, it's mostly downhill until the next revision. So you have to put as much distance as possible between you and your competitors... especially to recoup the fixed costs of R&D, product development and initial operating costs at launch. You want someone like Microsoft to be caught with their pants down.
Apple claimed that the information posted on Think Secret in November and December of this year, and earlier, could only have been obtained by someone who had signed a confidentiality agreement with Apple.
It's not illegal per se to publish trade secrets; generally, the only people Apple actually has any claims against are those that have signed NDAs and have violated them.
However, there are lots of ways in which such information can get out without any NDA being violated. Apple will have to demonstrate that their employees didn't accidentally disclose the information and that they have always protected it properly.
That's plausible. If they actually did do that, however, and the courts found out about it, it would be quite bad for Apple: frivolous lawsuits file for marketing purposes are not looked kindly upon by the courts.
Didn't apple already do a cheaper headless mac? It was a cheaper version of the tower. The Icube or something like that. I can't remember the name, I just remember the product was a flop and the price was around $1000 which was not bad for market conditions.It had problems with heat, a friend of mine had one and the clear plastic (plexiglass) would crack. It would overheat and have weird flakey crashing problems. It had a gforce card or something for video? How would this $500 cube thing differ from that flop? -Ron
"Apple's DNA is innovation, and the protection of our trade secrets is crucial to our success," the Cupertino, California-based company said in a statement.
Wow, they ship a sub $499 computer in a small case and call it "innovation".
As an online discussion about Apple grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Microsoft or Bill Gates approaches one
--- What?
The suit is a red herring of some sort. Apple can't possibly hope to prevail because the suit claims damage, or at least potential damage if these rumors allow a competetor to duplicate their efforts and come to market first. Think about this for a second.
If TS posts two weeks out of Mac World that Apple is releasing a product.. something that took months and months to design and months to ramp up production.. how is a competetor going to use this information to duplicate their product?
This is likely about the imac. There are already cheap headless computers out there and it takes more than weeks to design and market a new system. It could also be about the rumored iWorks software suite (though not sure if TS commented on this) or leaked Panther stuff, or the rumored firewire direct in box. Do you suspect that releasing this info a couple weeks early would allow a competetor to beat them to market?
I'm not feeling witty so bite me
" Fuck off AC "
Oh brother. You fanbodyism knows no depths today!
"That doesn't mean that folks should be allowed to kill business this way"
If the information is accurate, then the truth is always a defense.
If the information is inaccurate... then only fanboys like you feel let down.
You need a hard look at your life. Apple is no better or different that MS, Exxon, GM, Toyota, Intel or anybody else.
There are "leaks" from Intel all the time about new processors. Some of those are extremely critical. And when was the last time Intel sued a website?
You can't answer fanboy, because the answer is: 0. Zero. Only Apple. The only difference is Apple has fanboys who think they're being "different" when they buy an Apple. You need to get out of the basement more.
I know why companies think they need to keep a tight rein on product announcements, I know the moral of the Osborne-2.
What I'm getting at here is that for the product that matters a few weeks advance notice is just going to hurt their competitor's sales. Oh, and that's Dell and HP, not Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't make computers, they do operating systems and other products where they have lock-in... and Apple's been telegraphing everything to do with Tiger as hard as they can already.
I don't know why you care about the office suite. Office suites aren't a product category any more... there's only two kinds of office suites in the world that people will actually use: Microsoft Office, and free ones.
Looks like the mods are trying to hide any negative comments about Apple.
Trying? You must be new here.....
Boycott reality!
This is a public relations stunt to cause buzz about the coming new products at MacWorld. That is all. Apple leaked it on purpose for two reasons: determine public reaction to the product while they still have a chance to shelf it, and to start the drool factor.
"If I were in ThinkSecret's place, I'd sit down with Apple's lawyer, tell them the name of the source who provided the information, pay a tiny little fee to the lawyers involved, and have a nice day."
That's because you're a know-nothing fanboy, and not anyone using brains.
If ThinkSecret rolls over just on a threat, then they might as well close. Rumors are the HEART of the computer industry. Magazines have been reporting rumors for decades, companies have hated for slightly less time.
Just your saying "Well, this time they may have a case..." base on what...your internal fan-voice saying "They can't DO this to APPLE!"?????
Please.
I hope steve jobs has a relapse.
"Say a lot of people who wanted to buy a lot of eMacs"
I can't. My vocal cords would leap out of my throat and try to squish my brains for saying something so untrue and stupid.
There has never been any demand for eMacs because Apple's heart has never been in the low-end. The eMacs are just a bad choice all around.
The iMac G5 is the lowest you should go if you're considering a Mac.
Is Apple pissed because Think Secret screwed up some massive insider trading plan they had? I don't see how apple could be angry enough about this to actually sue someone.
-Zeecog
Does Trade Secret law apply in this case?
The tabacco companies already tried this against CBS and PBS. They lost. The courts have (thanksfully) held that journalism is vastly more important than marketing and journalists have the right to reveal "trade secrets". Further offering to publish information is not a bribe and thus does not constitute liability.
The NDA is a two party conract. And thinksecret is interfearing
with that contract as a third party. That is what this about.
You can mess-up stock prices by doing this.
And say hello to the SEC. IMO
Well I guess that means those rumors were true. Aren't they just confirming a story?
You've got it exactly backwards.
Apple has no legitimate gripe against ThinkSecret unless ThinkSecret paid somebody to break their NDAs. Media organizations are perfectly free under the law to solicit information, as long as they don't offer an inducement to someone to break a contract. It's possible but very unlikely Apple has any evidence that ThinkSecret paid off one of their NDAed employees.
On the other hand, with its 80% marketshare in the music download market, Apple is unquestionably vulnerable to antitrust claims. Anti-tying provisions of antitrust laws and regulations do not care in the least that about people being informed ahead of time that the tying exists; disclosure is not a defense.
Apple's defenses would be to claim it's not sufficiently dominant in the download buisness that it constitutes a monopoly in that buisness; that the proper "buisness" to be evaluated is music distribution as a whole (instead of merely digital distribution); that the ability to play on computers is sufficient that the music isn't tied to the iPod; or that the ability to burn and rip a CD to another format that can be used on other players is sufficient exit flexibility that there is no tying.
But, though plausible and prrobably true, these are all claims sufficiently complex that they probably cannot be determined short of a full trial, at least by any judge who doesn't want to be overturned on appeal.
In short, the ThinkSecret case is much closer to one that a sane, law-understanding judge would throw out; the antitrust case is one that, due to the ambiguities and complexities of antitrust law, almost certainly must go to trial.
no limit on number of machines that can be authorized
5 machines may be authorized at any moment. If one goes down before you can deauthorize it, let Apple know and they will do it for you. if your point is that this is a PITA, fine, but you phrased it poorly.
I agree with this. There are hundreds or thousands of people who could have done the leaking.
Apple has to protect their trade secrets. If their competition found out Apple was releasing a $500 Mac, they might release a $500 Mac first.
Oh, wait...
Well, they might release a $500 computer first.
Oh, wait...
Pictures of the new Headless iHome...
h**p://dms.tecknohost.com/macrumors/i/ihome/
Micheal Dell has publicly had this conversation:
Interviewer: "Mr Dell, what is your research & development budget?"
Micheal Dell: "What is Apple's? Apple does everyone's R&D in the PC industry"
With comments like that and "out of no where" hits like the iPod, everyone is CLOSELY watching Apple. If competitors; like Creative, would have gotten a hold of the iPod, they most likely would have made a deal with Toshiba as well. Toshiba had EXCLUSIVE contract dealings with Apple for the hard drives in the original iPod. That carried to larger hard drives - Apple had 20 and 30GB WAY before everyone else did (in the 1.8" size)
Revealing Apple trade secrets hurt Apple. Many have said Apple should be the ones at fault here for not having a tighter lipped unsinkable ship. One of the best comeback's against God in the Bible [from Cain], where God honestly had no answer - "Am I My Brother's Keeper?" comes to my mind. Of course this begs the answer, "yes". But truthfully, we cannot control any one. We have the responsibility to follow what is just and right. (Not a biblical reference)
Every Jackwhispers page contains a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King:
Think Secret's encouragement of injustice to Apple is a threat to innovation, capitalism, and bottom lines.
Think Secret rarely speculates (that's what rumors are= speculations/prognostications) - they always have apparently coerced or received information from the disgruntled.
Does it not bother anyone that Think Secret knows the reseller lawsuit a little too intimately? Has anyone ever thought that Elite Computers and MacAdam could be behind a good portion of this constant "stealing thunder from Apple at the expense of Apple sales and exploiting Apple fans desire to see new products"
It has gone way beyond buzz. Reuters, CNet, & all major stock analysts are NOW PINNING Apple stock targets on a headless sub $500 iMac and a flash iPod.
Even if true, anyone who has spoken of these things have done so at the expense of our favorite company.
Apple spends a lot of it's budget on R&D and makes big deals with BIG companies.
I would expect if I was a trendsetter (which I am * wink*) - that my colleagues would have the courtesy to keep mum. I don't profit or propser by seeming to follow the crowd. I profit by being a leader.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Read what you're replying to: the ggpp.
This post written under Gentoo-linux with an SCO IP license.