Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger to Arrive in April

Silly Burrito writes "Think Secret is reporting that Tiger will be out in April with an event on April 1st and it should be out in stores by April 15th. If this is true, I can finally get both the Mini and a new Powerbook, as I've been waiting for Tiger to be released before I do so. Let's just hope that this isn't a bad April Fools Joke!"

Comments

which powerbook are you thinking of getting?

[msew]

which powerbook are you thinking of getting?

Re:which powerbook are you thinking of getting?

[Silly Burrito]

Probably the 15" Powerbook. I've heard all the rumors of G5 Powerbooks, but I've been telling myself that I'll wait until Tiger is released. I've just been ready for a new computer for so long that I might just buy the Mini to test out Tiger, and then possibly wait until June/July to see if they will come out with the G5 Powerbook. I know they just recently were updated, so I guess it just is a matter of "How long can you wait for a new laptop?"

Re:which powerbook are you thinking of getting?

[Moofie]

Backlit keyboard gooooooood. That's the only thing I wish I had on my 12" Powerbook.

Re:which powerbook are you thinking of getting?

[mrchaotica]

Be careful about that. Just earlier today I was reading an AppleInsider story about how people are having a lot of problems with the new trackpads on the new Powerbooks.

Incidentally, they're reporting the Tiger launch too, so either they are copying their news from each other, or it's likely true.

Not a joke

[unixmaster]

Safari team is getting ready for a new Webcore release too. So Safari 2.0 is near that means Tiger is coming soon.

Re:Not a joke

[lintux]

If you mean Safari 2.0 will be in Tiger, that sounds unlikely to me. If they want to release in less than a month, I'd be very surprised if they wouldn't have the gold CD images ready already.

Re:Not a joke

[BadChai]

Safari 2.0 will be in tiger. It has additional features to read RSS.

April?

[ErichTheWebGuy]

Let's just hope that this isn't a bad April Fools Joke!

Not likely, since it's only March...

Re:April?

[Shachaf]

From the summary:

Think Secret is reporting that Tiger will be out in April with an event on April 1st and it should be out in stores by April 15th.

So yes, this could be an April Fool's joke.

Re:April?

[node 3]

>>Let's just hope that this isn't a bad April Fools Joke!
>
>Not likely, since it's only March...

Well, that would make it a *bad* April Fool's Joke.

Re:April?

[stew-a-cide]

Apple Computer Corp. was founded on April Fools Day. Serious.

http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/bla pp lecomputer.htm

Shhhhhhh

[LiquidCoooled]

You don't wanna get sued for posting trade secrets.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Ron Goodman]

I think this falls well within realm of speculation.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[node 3]

You don't wanna get sued for posting trade secrets.

I don't think there's much to worry about on this one. The defense attorney will just have to giggle uncontrollably every time the prosecutor makes his case against, "Silly Burrito".

Prosecution: "Your honor, we plan to show that one 'Silly Burrito' poste--"

Defense: <giggling>

Prosecution: "Your honor! This an outrage, please do something!"

Judge: "The defense will restrain from laughing."

Defense: "Your honor, he's prosecuting a burrito, a *silly* burrito. I can't help it."

Judge: "You've got a point. Disregard my last order. Prosecution, you may continue."

Prosecution: "Shit..."

Later...

Jury Foreman: "Your honor, the jury finds the Burrito, 'not spicy'!" and bursts out in unrestrained laugher

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Leo McGarry]

Actually, I think a clever lawyer could argue that it doesn't.

Point one: Everybody knows that Think Secret has been accused of breaking the law to acquire proprietary information and publishing that information on its Web site.

Point two: This report sites unnamed "sources," just like the reports for which Think Secret is accused of breaking the law.

Point three: The law says that it's illegal to knowingly publish trade secrets. The standard is that if a reasonable person would have had a reasonable suspicion that the information was confidential, publishing it is a violation of California's trade-secrets act.

So I don't actually think it would be that hard to construct a prima facie argument that Slashdot has, in fact, broken the law here. Assuming the information really was leaked to Think Secret, of course. Only Apple and Think Secret know for sure right now.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

... And assuming the imminent release date of a pending OS upgrade is really a trade secret, which seems ludicrous.

Matthew Rothenberg
Executive editor
Ziff Davis Internet

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Hard_Code]

The point of a patent is to publicly publish your "secret" in escrow with the government, in exchange for some temporary monopoly.

If you don't like that trade off, and think you can get more value by hiding your "secret" yourself, you can of course try to keep your "secret" secret yourself. Why should there be any laws protecting trade secrets? If it was leaked, OOPS YOU FUCKED UP.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[lp-habu]

.. And assuming the imminent release date of a pending OS upgrade is really a trade secret, which seems ludicrous.

It seems ludicrous to some perhaps, but seeming so to some doesn't make it so. Perhaps you would like to present some points to convince the rest of us that it is ludicrous so we can address those points. Or would you prefer that we take your word for it?

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Leo McGarry]

Cross reference here. Short answer: If you treat it like a trade secret, the presumption is that it's a trade secret.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Leo McGarry]

Why should there be any laws protecting trade secrets?

Same reason we have laws protecting personal property: Because respect for other people's stuff is a core value in our culture.

Not everybody shares that value (obviously), but that doesn't change the fact that it's a core value.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

What unique competitive advantage does this release date (if accurate) represent? To what advantage could a competitor use this information between today (March 13) and April 1? E.g., is Microsoft going to create a major new Windows release for delivery on April 14 based on this report?

And how does an announce date of April 1 and ship date of April 15 represent "information, including a formula, pattern, compilation, program device, method, technique, or process, that ... derives independent economic value, actual or potential, from not being generally known to, and not being readily ascertainable by proper means by, other persons who can obtain economic value from its disclosure or use"?

I don't see how this information comes close to fitting either bill. m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

Leo: In my many years covering Apple, that would cover anything that Apple ever does not embodied in an Apple press release -- up to and including compensation of its janitors and the availability of office supplies! (Not hyperbole -- these questions have actually come up.)

m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[lp-habu]

It isn't your place to determine that. A product roll-out is an expensive proposition, and may be planned as a well-coordinated operation. If in releasing information about that release prior to public announcement of it you interfere in any way with the company's plans, then you have cost them. You may not understand that, but there is no need for you to. If I damage you through my own actions, it isn't necessary for me to understand that damage for it to occur.

If you plan a surprise birthday party for your child, or your wife, and someone gratuitously tells them all about it in advance, then I suspect you will feel damaged. Whether the person who did the telling thinks you should feel damaged isn't really relevant, is it?

Re:Shhhhhhh

[adamwood]

It's going to damage Mac sales between now and probably the announement (at which point I'd expect a free upgrade offer to kick in.)

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Leo McGarry]

Don't argue with me. Argue with California's lawmakers who defined what a trade secret is, as I explained in this comment.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

>>If you plan a surprise birthday party for your child, or your wife, and someone gratuitously tells them all about it in advance, then I suspect you will feel damaged. Whether the person who did the telling thinks you should feel damaged isn't really relevant, is it?

But are there grounds to sue over your hurt feelings? I don't see it, myself -- and Apple's emotional health still doesn't equate to a trade secret!

m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

>>It's going to damage Mac sales between now and probably the announement (at which point I'd expect a free upgrade offer to kick in.)

I've never seen any quantitative data supporting the truism that advance word from Mac sites damages sales. I would be very interested in seeing any documentation to that effect.

m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[lp-habu]

But are there grounds to sue over your hurt feelings?

Do you find it conceivable that there could be some monetary costs involved as well as hurt feelings? Do you think it impossible that getting less than the impact you pay for is a monetary loss? Or are such things absolutely impossible?

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

>>Do you find it conceivable that there could be some monetary costs involved as well as hurt feelings? Do you think it impossible that getting less than the impact you pay for is a monetary loss? Or are such things absolutely impossible?

It's not impossilbe, but I don't think Apple's demonstrated it yet. I'll be curious to see how the company documents such a claim.

m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Secret Agent 99]

Isn't a marketing plan a kind of formula? Can't competitors do a little extra digging to confirm or deny the leak, then plan counter-announcements to try to dim the spotlight?

However: since it's the release date of a known product, and not the existence of a previously unknown product, I expect there's zero chance of it being true -- just because if it once was true, Apple has probably changed the date already.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[lp-habu]

It's not impossilbe, but I don't think Apple's demonstrated it yet. I'll be curious to see how the company documents such a claim.

Then perhaps your original claims were a bit overstated? Or was that journalistic freedom?

Of course, considering that other rumor sites have reported that making a Tiger release by the end of June was beginning to seem a bit iffy, perhaps the whole thing is a little overblown. On the other hand, if Apple does indeed make an announcement on April 1, I think they would be fully justified in demanding to know the source of the published information. I'm sure you don't, but then I wouldn't expect you to. I would expect you in that event to be wrong, however.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[ArbitraryConstant]

"It's going to damage Mac sales between now and probably the announement"

For two weeks? With all of that made up immediately in April?

Ah yes. Different quarter. Those bastards.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

>>Then perhaps your original claims were a bit overstated? Or was that journalistic freedom?

Until Apple demonstrates otherwise, I don't think my claims were overstated. (I've been covering the company for 15 years, and I've yet to see Apple present any numbers to back a claim of this sort.)

There is a first time for everything, though, and if Apple backs this argument with real numbers, I'll be eager to report it.

m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Reverberant]

E.g., is Microsoft going to create a major new Windows release for delivery on April 14 based on this report?

MS isn't going to create a new Windows release for April 1-14, but they could schedule their own press event for that period extolling the feature set of the Longhorn beta to steal some (or all) of Apple's thunder. They've done it before.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[lp-habu]

Until Apple demonstrates otherwise, I don't think my claims were overstated. (I've been covering the company for 15 years, and I've yet to see Apple present any numbers to back a claim of this sort.)

Since we seem to have drifted a bit away from the original question of whether Apple had the right to defend the confidentiality of their release dates, let's drift a little further: How about staking a little bit of that 15 years of credibility by telling us what you think the chances are of the April 1 date being correct? Would you say "nearly a sure thing", "good bet", "maybe", "not likely" or "no way"? And how much of your credibility are you willing to bet on your answer? Hm?

Then come back on April 2 and tell us how you think you did. OK?

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

>>MS isn't going to create a new Windows release for April 1-14, but they could schedule their own press event for that period extolling the feature set of the Longhorn beta to steal some (or all) of Apple's thunder.

... And so has Apple RE Longhorn. Both companies have taken cross-platform potshots, and I don't see any evidence that one more Longhorn press release will have a quantitative effect on Tiger sales.

m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[andreMA]

Point three: The law says that it's illegal to knowingly publish trade secrets.

Slashdot isn't publishing any secrets, trade or not. They're quoting another site that may or may not have done so. For something to be a trade secret it needs to be... um, secret. That's hardly the case here and now.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Leo McGarry]

For something to be a trade secret it needs to be... um, secret.

Interestingly, no, it doesn't. According to the law, a trade secret is any information with value that the holder tries to keep secret. If it meets those two qualifications, it's still a secret, even if it gets out.

As long as Apple is making a diligent effort to protect its secrets, they're still secrets, as far as the law is concerned.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Leo McGarry]

It's not impossilbe, but I don't think Apple's demonstrated it yet.

I'm sure you're aware that they are under absolutely no obligation to demonstrate anything until trial, right? At this point, all they need to do is make a reasonable and sound claim, which they've done.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Silly Burrito]

I protest....I believe I'm spicy! Yeah, it's a weird nickname, but it's from a long time ago, before AOL took over the internet! :) If nothing else, I'll get Harvey Birdman to plead my case...if he's not available, maybe Reducto will be.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

>>I'm sure you're aware that they are under absolutely no obligation to demonstrate anything until trial, right? At this point, all they need to do is make a reasonable and sound claim, which they've done.

Right, but the poster was asking me if I wanted to back off my position. Which I don't until Apple puts up or shuts up. :-)

m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

>> According to the law, a trade secret is any information with value that the holder tries to keep secret. If it meets those two qualifications, it's still a secret, even if it gets out.

Who makes the determination of value? If I call Apple PR to ask whether the company vending machines stock Coke or Pepsi, the flak might well tell me that Apple doesn't divulge that information because any seeming corporate endorsement in soft drinks might blunt its competitive edge.

What if I subsequently ask an Apple employee what soft drink he bought today, and he tells me Coke (despite Apple's recent cross-branding deals with Pepsi)? Am I in illegal possession of a trade secret? An Apple staffer told me this information has value, after all, and she opted to keep that information secret.

This is a silly hypothetical, I know (although I might actually enjoy pursuing this story just to see whether I get straight-armed). Neverthless, I would like to see some tangible evidence that Apple has lost money because of these reports.

m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[constantnormal]

Worse yet -- if Steve finds out that any piece of his thunder has been pre-empted, he's likely to hold up releasing Tiger until June 30... just because he can.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Leo McGarry]

That's pretty irresponsible, don't you think? You, as a professional journalist, are an opinion-maker. You're essentially dismissing Apple's case in the court of public opinion based on grounds that would never stand up in an actual court.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Leo McGarry]

This is a silly hypothetical, I know

Thanks for pre-empting the only thing I was going to say in response. Your comment was silly. If you decide to come on back to earth, you let me know. You seem to be a thoughtful guy, but you've got your head completely on backwards this time.

Neverthless, I would like to see some tangible evidence that Apple has lost money because of these reports.

That's not the standard. The standard in a civil dispute is a preponderance of evidence. There's no requirement that the evidence be "tangible," to use your word. It can be entirely circumstantial or inferential.

You're trying to hold Apple to a higher standard than a court would. That's a mistake.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

I didn't say it would never stand up in court, although I certainly hope it won't.

I said that on the face of it, I don't see the merits of the argument that Apple has lost money because of these sites' reporting. (Quite the opposite, since the company has at times demonstrated a willingness to use them as a marketing tool -- viz. the "Beyond the Rumor Sites" campaign the company launched in advance of Macworld Expo SF 2002.)

m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[bayvult]

A fascinating debating point, but as Matthew said -

Apple's emotional health still doesn't equate to a trade secret.

Can you prove it is?

Re:Shhhhhhh

[dr.badass]

Right, but the poster was asking me if I wanted to back off my position. Which I don't until Apple puts up or shuts up. :-)

Considering that they have yet to claim what you're saying they did, I think that counts as shutting up.

This is one of the most ridiculous threads I have ever seen.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

>>That's not the standard. The standard in a civil dispute is a preponderance of evidence. There's no requirement that the evidence be "tangible," to use your word. It can be entirely circumstantial or inferential.

... But it'll have to be compelling to get the brass ring. And considering that Apple itself has arguably played footsy with these sites -- and likely benefited at times from the advance buzz they provide -- I don't think that's going to be a walk by any means.

m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

>>Considering that they have yet to claim what you're saying they did, I think that counts as shutting up.

Apple hasn't made any claims about this latest Tiger report, but that's the ostensible reason for the suit the company filed after Think Secret revealed information about the Mac mini two weeks before Apple's announcement. And Apple hasn't shut up about that one yet. :-)

m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Lord Flipper]

Perhaps you would like to present some points to convince the rest of us that it is ludicrous so we can address those points. Or would you prefer that we take your word for it?

The fact you're paranoid is your biz. But being rude sucks, pal. Jobs was on worldwide QT multicast talking about Tiger coming for Summer, three fucking months ago.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[dr.badass]

Apple hasn't made any claims about this latest Tiger report, but that's the ostensible reason for the suit the company filed after Think Secret revealed information about the Mac mini two weeks before Apple's announcement.

This makes no sense.

Firstly, the suit you're referring to specifically refers to the "Asteroid", which is supposedly a FireWire audio interface that has still yet to be announced. It concerns the leak of product specifications, not of a release date. The Mac mini is not "Asteroid".

Your argument is basically that release dates can't be considered trade secrets. This is false, as a generalization, but it can be true depending on the situation. I doubt that Apple would bother trying to claim the date as a trade secret when they have already announced the product, and announced a release date in the first half ot 2005. At this point, "everyone knows" that it will be released in the next three months. There isn't much secrecy around that. A judge probably wouldn't agree with that kind of claim.

At this point, one could have a fair chance at guessing the Tiger release date, based on information Apple has made available to anyone.

Detailed specifications of unannounced products, however, most definitely can be considered trade secrets, and the judge has already ruled against the three sites in question in that case.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[MatthewRothenberg]

>>Firstly, the suit you're referring to specifically refers to the "Asteroid", which is supposedly a FireWire audio interface that has still yet to be announced. It concerns the leak of product specifications, not of a release date. The Mac mini is not "Asteroid".

dr. badass: No, the suit to which I'm referring -- the Think Secret suit -- is about the Mac mini, not Asteroid.

TS hasn't been accused of posting Asteroid stuff; that was AppleInsider and PowerPage.

m.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[lp-habu]

Don't need to. All Apple has to do is show they were damaged.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[lp-habu]

And certainly no one would object if a rumor site were to claim that Tiger would be out this summer. So?

Re:Shhhhhhh

[Leo McGarry]

I think Apple is entitled to sue people who unlawfully induce their employees to violate confidentiality.

I don't know where you get the word "deserves" from, and the question of whether the defendants are journalists or not is completely irrelevant.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[rs79]

"MS isn't going to create a new Windows release for April 1-14, but they could schedule their own press event for that period extolling the feature set of the Longhorn beta"

MS vapourware vs. a new rev of a gui consumer BSD?

I'm still thinking about this? Oh please...

Re:Shhhhhhh

[stripes]

Same reason we have laws protecting personal property: Because respect for other people's stuff is a core value in our culture.

According to the constitution, it is:

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries

In other words to give authors and inventors an incentive to continue authoring and inventing.

Implicit in that statement is (to me anyway) that congress does not have the power to secure the rights in such a way that they are detrimental to the progress of science and the useful arts. I haven't seen a court uphold that argument though (nor have I really seen anyone struggle hard to make it)

Nothing to do with core values. In fact we explicitly rejected the patents and copyrights on foreign inventions and music and the like for a very long time.

Re:Shhhhhhh

[EvilMole]

..something which it has singularly failed to do.

RE:

[rdilallo]

I wonder if Apple will delay the release because of this leak? That'd suck!

Did they fix the graphing calculator hack?

[xtal]

I miss those plugins.

Re:Did they fix the graphing calculator hack?

[node 3]

Even better. They're including an all new graphing calculator. It's called Graphulator

April 1st is the day of fools.

[KajiCo]

Tiger April 1st, and new dual core G5s June 10th. Yippee. Christmas won't suck this year.

I've been saving some dough for the post WWDC buy-a-thon.

Fact???

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this being taken as fact? Do the editors believe Think Secret to be a reputable news source that knows the exact release date for a given product? Has this information been confirmed by the vendor itself?

No. It's a rumor. Don't state it as fact - it pisses me off. The headline is not just misleading, it could be entirely misinformation.

Remove head from ass, then post.

Re:Fact???

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Think Secret seems to post it as a fact too.

Re:Fact???

[dappleyard]

Think secret have been right about most - if not all - the rumours they have posted previously. OK, so they may make the odd mistake (e.g the colour screen iPod Mini discrepancy), but their sources of information are generally pretty accurate.

Re:Fact???

[Bricklets]

Given ThinkSecret's track record, I'm more inclined to believe there is some legitimacy to this article and highly doubt the article is, in your words, entirely misinformation.

Re:Fact???

[DarkMantle]

Are you kidding?

I don't know when the last time they used a confirmed source for news.

Remember the WinFS post and retraction not that long ago

Re:Fact???

[MatthewRothenberg]

Anonymous Coward: Draw your own conclusions.

Given Think Secret's excellent track record and my own knowledge of the care with which Nick Ciarelli researches his reports, I personally believe that the site is in fact a "reputable news source," and this report is at least as plausible as an Apple-related scoop from any bigger outlet.

At my shop, we're certainly going to pursue this report with vigor -- largely on the strength of Think Secret's record for accuracy.

Matthew Rothenberg
Executive editor
Ziff Davis Internet

Re:Fact???

[rob_squared]

For think secre't sake, lets hope they're wrong. We all know what happened last time they were right...

Re:Fact???

[Leo McGarry]

my own knowledge of the care with which Nick Ciarelli researches his reports

You're referring to Ciarelli's violation of California's Uniform Trade Secrets Act, no doubt?

Re:Fact???

[MatthewRothenberg]

That would depend on whether a two-week jump on the the date of an OS release really counts as a "trade secret." Me, I think such a claim degrades the whole concept of what a trade secret comprises -- but I guess we'll see what the court ultimately concludes.

Matthew Rothenberg
Executive editor
Ziff Davis Internet

Re:Fact???

[Leo McGarry]

Given the fact that for nine months Apple has been jealously guarding the release date, referring only to "the first half of 2005," and that Apple has a track record of being the most imitated company in the industry, I'd say that a very good argument can be made that the release dates of upcoming products are trade secrets.

Re:Fact???

[MatthewRothenberg]

Leo: You think that because of this report, someone will be able to imitate the features of Tiger -- which have already been announced by the company itself -- between today and April 1? Come on!

Longhorn is a lock for 2006; nobody's going to use this information to blunt Apple's competitive edge.

As far as Apple "jealously guarding" this date: Apple jealously guards everything pertaining to the company and its products. That doesn't make everything a trade secret.

Matthew Rothenberg
Executive editor
Ziff Davis Internet

Re:Fact???

[Leo McGarry]

You think that because of this report, someone will be able to imitate the features of Tiger -- which have already been announced by the company itself -- between today and April 1? Come on!

No, I don't. But that's not the criterion by which we judge. Read on.

Apple jealously guards everything pertaining to the company and its products. That doesn't make everything a trade secret.

Actually, in California, it kinda does. The Uniform Trade Secrets Act, 3426.1, defines a trade secret as any information that has economic value and that the company acts to protect. The release date of an upcoming product clearly has economic value. You don't even have to argue that. Just look around this Web page and see how many people are saying that they've been planning to make a purchase but that, on the strength of this rumor, they would wait for Tiger's release. Any time anybody wants a product today but decides to wait until tomorrow to buy it, the company loses just a little bit of money. A few bucks. Multiply that by thousands of people and a month or more and suddenly it's a significant deal. Clearly the premature announcement of a release date has significant economic impact on Apple's bottom line.

So yeah. Under California law, it's a trade secret. Cut-and-dried, open-and-shut.

Re:Fact???

[carlfish]

This being the same ThinkSecret that reported as fact that the iPod mini was going to be updated with a colour screen on February 24th?

Or that the flash-based iPod would feature a screen that was as wide as the iPod mini, but a few lines shorter.

Or that a 2Gb iPod mini would cost around US$100.

And a lot more can be found perusing the archives.

Mostly, ThinkSecret gets its reputation from confirmation bias. You remember the hits more significantly than the misses, so it feels far more accurate than it really is. In fact, while they're good at reporting rumours that everyone else knows - like the fact the mini was in the works - or things that can be easily verified - like the contents of the latest Tiger developer seed, or the obvious conclusion from Apple buying up heaps of flash memory - their exclusive scoops from "insider sources" are very hit and miss.

Re:Fact???

[MatthewRothenberg]

>>In fact, while they're good at reporting rumours that everyone else knows ... or things that can be easily verified ... their exclusive scoops from "insider sources" are very hit and miss.

... So the site isn't actually divulging Apple secrets at all! Case dismissed. :-)

m.

Re:Fact???

[Morky]

No, you're wrong. Think Secret's misses are more rare than the hits. And most of the hits are exactly right, usually down to the price.

Re:Fact???

[carlfish]

So the site isn't actually divulging Apple secrets at all! Case dismissed

I said "hit and miss", which implies the occasional hit. And that's part of the problem. The times Think Secret do get some legitimate insider information (like the full specs of the Mac Mini) adds an undeserved weight to the rest of the time when he's just pissing in the wind (or reporting someone else's wind-pissing).

So you end up with situations like the iPod Mini, which got a lot of bad press on its release thanks to the Think Secret-fueled assumption that it was going to cost $100. Everyone had been primed to expect a $100 iPod, despite the fact tht $100 was a totally unrealistic price for the unit. Of course the Mini went on to be wildly successful anyway, but this sort of thing could really have hurt a product that had less brand momentum than the iPod.

Charles Miller

Re:Fact???

[trekstar25]

Guess what: charging $250 for a 4gb device when you're already selling a $300 20gb device would get you bad reviews, regardless if people were expecting a $100 device.

Re:Fact???

[AvantLegion]

At my shop, we're certainly going to pursue this report with vigor -- largely on the strength of Think Secret's record for accuracy.

Matthew Rothenberg Executive editor Ziff Davis Internet

0WNED!

(had to say it)

Re:Fact???

[kalidasa]

Am I the only one who has a hard time understanding how California law has jurisdiction over a publication that is published in Massachusetts? What if ThinkSecret was published in France - would the CA UTSA still have force?

Re:Fact???

[CommanderData]

I can tell you it will be released next month guaranteed... Because I finally caved in and bought an iMac G5 last week! I'm sure it will be released just far enough into April to be conveniently after any 30 day upgrade period :)

Re:Fact???

[MatthewRothenberg]

My straight answer to what looks like a tongue-in-cheek line of inquiry: I have no idea! :-)

m.

Re:Fact???

[Leo McGarry]

Am I the only one who has a hard time understanding how California law has jurisdiction over a publication that is published in Massachusetts?

Apparently you are, yes. See, Apple's offices are in California.

free upgrades

[b17bmbr]

apple would offer the free upgrade if you bought a PB within a month of tiger coming out. they're pretty good about that. though i'm still waiting for the g5 PB's.

Re:free upgrades

[dduck]

I fear you will have to wait for a very long time. Every source out there pretty much agrees that the thermal characteristics of the G5 are incompatible with use in a laptop.

Re:free upgrades

[antifoidulus]

Only if you buy it after the OFFICIAL announcement from Apple, and even then, "free" is $19(or at least it was last time)

Re:free upgrades

[MBCook]

I just bought a new PB when they announced them at Macworld. Do you think they will extend the offer that far back (~2 months maybe?). Just wondering.

Re:free upgrades

[i wanted another nam]

The same could be said for the Pentium4 or the Athlon 64. That hasn't stopped them.

Re:free upgrades

[b17bmbr]

i know that. i just can't justfiy a new PB to the wife if it another G4. of course i already have three kids so using it actually on my lap isn't a concern!!

Re:free upgrades

[b17bmbr]

the difference is that apple actually wants their laptops to look good. the P4 laptops look like somebody stole the dashboard out of a cadilac and glued on an LCD.

Re:free upgrades

[MoneyT]

And I have yet to see a P4 or Athlon 64 laptop that fits in a 1 inch thick case and runs cool enough to be used on one's lap.

Re:free upgrades

[grotgrot]

And what about those of us that bought a Mac Mini earlier this year? Having to spend 26% of what we spent two months ago to get the upgrade won't go down well.

Re:free upgrades

[dduck]

Good point.

Despite working at a university and thus having a sizeable expense account for toys^H^H^H^Htools, I held off getting a desktop replacement type laptop until Centrino-based machines came out. Bad experinces with a PIII based Thinkpad, and watching my office mates, who had to put their P4 laptops on stands to avoid scortching the tables and/or having the machine shut down due to overheating, made me proceed with some caution.

I like the Centrino-based Dell... but now I wish I had Swithed earlier. Mmmm... Powerbook-goodness!!!

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[tabkey12]

Personally, I am amazed ThinkSecret is still publishing these rumours despite the lawsuit hanging over them. Nick Ciarelli certainly has balls ;)

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[justforaday]

If by "revealed details about Tiger prematurely" you really mean "distributed prerelease copies over the internet" then I'd say no...

Coincidence?

[rob_squared]

That it's mentioned on on april fools, and released on tax day?

Re:Coincidence?

[Queer Boy]

April 1st is Apple's birthday.

Re:Coincidence?

[chrism238]

... and Tax Day is June 30th, you, you, ...., Yank!

ITConversations.com interviews Tiger developer

[DoctoRoR]

I think Tiger might tip me to the Apple side again, after being a Win 95/98/NT/XP user for a while. ITConversations.com ran an interview with the senior product line manager. There's no video, but it was interesting to hear him walk through the new features.

Re:ITConversations.com interviews Tiger developer

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I think the interesting part is the interview. There are a lot of compelling things that are being introduced, if only half of the technologies pan out, I think we may be in for a treat. Mr. RDF did demonstrate a lot of it during his January 2005 keynote.

The question is:

[tabkey12]

Will it be backported to Panther? You didn't hear Microsoft not updating Internet Explorer for Windows 2000 just because Windows XP had come out...

This is from someone typing on an Apple PowerBook btw - I do like Apple's products, but not always the company's actions.

Re:The question is:

[bunratty]

Actually, the latest version of IE is not available for Windows 2000. You need Windows XP to get the pop-up blocker and other enhancements.

Re:The question is:

[Matrix9180]

Best guess is that it will be "backported" to Panther in the form of Safari 1.3 (which they had several developer previews of months back), and will have all the stuff Safari 2.0 does, minus the RSS support. The 1.3 previews were pretty much in-line w/ what Safari 2 had at the time, so I assume they've kept it up to date internally.

Re:The question is:

[Matrix9180]

So do you think Apple should stop updating it's core APIs and making stuff better/easier to use for it's developers, or just start back-porting all new stuff to old OSes just so that mr I installed 10.1 and think it rocks can quit bitching about not being able to use Safari?
Apple is already slowing down their releases. Tiger is taking about 18 months where Panther was what? 12?

Re:The question is:

[rokzy]

I find the updates ARE worth the asking price, having used mostly Windows in the past.

when MS 'upgrades' something it costs twice as much, has almost no new functionality, and is usually less secure.

consider the upgrade price for Windows XP and imo the only thing worth having was the bluetooth support.

I was pleased to find that Apple not only releases security updates but genuine improvements. I won't mind paying for 10.4 knowing I won't just get what it says on the box (which is great anyway), but probably some nice stuff between now and 10.5 too.

Re:The question is:

[mehgul]

Apple has a habit of providing security updates (among them the ones related to web browsing) both for Panther and Jaguar. Your post is misleading. And the latest iTunes is available for OX 10.1.5 onwards.

And for the OS updates not being worth the price, this is your own opinion. A lot of people have the opposite.

Re:The question is:

[BasilBrush]

It entirely depends on whether new versions of applications use new APIs that didn't exist in older versions of the OS. The same is true whether the application is an Apple one or a 3rd party one.

I got my Mac with Jaguar, and found that the Panther upgrade was worthwhile. Unlike with Windows, the OS X update resulted in a faster machine.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

It's not in Apple's interest to have old, buggy versions of Safari out there. They already have trouble getting people to support them for complex webapps (examples: Google Maps, gmail). Having multiple versions just compounds the testing and support costs for a small userbase.

And 18 months is still a very short cycle for corporate deployments (where they love Windows 2000 from 5 years ago), but that's probably not that important for Apple.

Re:The question is:

[SweetAndSourJesus]

They already have trouble getting people to support them for complex webapps (examples: Google Maps, gmail).

Christ. Google Maps and Gmail are beta products. It's not as if they had no intention of supporting Safari until people started bitching.

Re:The question is:

[legirons]

"when MS 'upgrades' something it costs twice as much, has almost no new functionality, and is usually less secure.consider the upgrade price for Windows XP and imo the only thing worth having was the bluetooth support."

What do you mean? WindowsXP came with blue titlebars, a totally reorganised control panel, and a handy program to read zip files. Totally worth £150, everyone should buy it!

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

I don't see how that contradicts my point at all -- Safari is still treated as second tier, due to missing functionailty. As Apple gets Safari up to speed with all the doodads in Mozilla and IE, it's critical that they move the entire userbase.

Re:The question is:

[rokzy]

>and a handy program to read zip files

ME already had that.

Re:The question is:

[SweetAndSourJesus]

It contradicts your point because pointing to beta websites that don't support Safari for their first week or two in public hardly indicates that Safari is having trouble getting people to support them.

Re:The question is:

[daviddennis]

What kind of doodads does IE have that Safari doesn't?

Not a troll, just curious.

D

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

Let me say then, in my experience, getting any form of Mac testing done on webapps is usually fairly low priority, and I personally don't want to support 2 versions of Safari, especially because I find the JS/DHTML support in the current versions to be far below the competition.

Re:The question is:

[Glonk]

consider the upgrade price for Windows XP

Have I missed something?

$93.99 for an XP Home upgrade: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000 2423YK/qid=1110650156/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-9649 965-7565415?v=glance&s=software&n=507846

$114.99 for MacOS X 10.3:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail /-/B000 0E6NK9/ref=pd_ts_c_th_1/103-9649965-7565415?v=glan ce&s=software&n=229652

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

I think the issue with Google is the lack of "XMLHTTP" support which allows one to make async server calls from javascript.

Re:The question is:

[Anonymous Coward]

ME already had that.

I already had that.

/grammar pedant

Re:The question is:

[milkman_matt]

Which can be annoying since the OS updates are never worth the asking price

I'd have to disagree on this one.. then again, different people will find different updates to be important. I think 10.3 was well worth the cost of the update. I'm not really seeing anything that blows my hair back in 10.4, but Expose alone was worth quite a bit to me. Hell, I hotkey'd it to a spare mouse button and use 'f9' to switch windows now, beats the hell out of cmd tab.

Re:The question is:

[Anonymous Coward]

That's perfectly acceptable caveman dialect. Damn US-Centric posters.

Re:The question is:

[milkman_matt]

I got my Mac with Jaguar, and found that the Panther upgrade was worthwhile. Unlike with Windows, the OS X update resulted in a faster machine.

Another good point, for a few years using OS X I was running it on a G3/400 powerbook. Now I don't think I have to tell you, that 10.0 was ... slow, to say the least. But with every OS update, and every release update, it got faster and faster, by 10.2 it was actually VERY usably fast, and this was on a 4 or 5 year old system. I always desperately awaited updates, because I knew my system was going to become faster.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

One issue with the security updates is that Apple has not made it clear how long the official support window is. The updates to 10.1 just stopped one day.

With 10.4 coming out, it's not clear if Apple will want to EOL 10.2, even though there's apparently a substantial userbase still on it. My hope is that Apple makes a formal statement saying how long 10.2 users can expect to recieve security patches.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

Microsoft went through the exact same process a long time ago -- WinNT 3.1 was the OS X 10.0 of the 90s, lots of potential but painfully slow. NT 3.5 was faster, and NT 4.0 was even faster still. Contrary to the convential wisdom here, Win XP is slightly faster than all of them, if more memory hungry.

Eventually the core OS is well optimized and there's no magic fairy dust which will give you speed increases. (Especially because Apple is focusing on video-card based processing which by in large is not supported on older machines.)

Re:The question is:

[Enucite]

"Have I missed something?"

Personally, I don't think the Windows upgrade prices are bad at all.

But you also have to keep in mind he's comparing it to OS X...
and the OS X upgrades really do give you a hell of a lot more for your money.

Re:The question is:

[multiOSfreak]

Have I missed something?

Yes. OS X point releases are not just upgrade versions. They are also standalone, full-install products that do not require previous installs. This comes in handy when you want to reformat a drive or if you buy a used Mac and want to wipe it clean and start over.

In other words, 10.3 does not require 10.2 to be installed in order to "upgrade."

For a fair comparison, you should look at the cost of the full version of XP Pro vs. the cost of the latest OS X. That would be $147.95 (Newegg) vs. $129 (Apple store), respectively.

Re:The question is:

[jaavaaguru]

Pop-ups, spyware, viruses, activeX, tight OS integration, lack of support for web standards, the netcraft and google toolbars.

But Safari has the most important bit of Google nicely integrated, so we don't mind so much that it doesn't have the roolbar.

Re:The question is:

[Philippe]

Have I missed something?

Yes, you are comparing XP Home with MacOSX when you should be comparing with XP Pro. Does XP Home have Fast User switching?

Re:The question is:

[PaxTech]

In all fairness, you should be comparing OS X to Windows XP Pro, not Home. OS X 10.3 is what you get on the most powerful workstation Apple makes, so it should be compared pricewise to the most powerful workstation Windows OS, not the stripped down toy "Home" version Microsoft sells.

Win XP Pro Upgrade is currently $179.99 at Amazon.

Re:The question is:

[JHromadka]

There is no upgrade version of 10.3. It's the full version. The only upgrade was for users that purchased a new machine after Panther hit gold master, and they got it for $20.

XP Home full version is $116.99: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000 05MOTF/qid=1110654316/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-4908 955-6674502?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

XP Pro (which I think is a better comparison for OS X) full is $269.99: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00022PTI4/ qid=1110654429/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/102-4908955 -6674502

Re:The question is:

[kosmicki]

Though I notice some versions of ME did not, and you could not install it either. My copy (OEM Compaq) did have zip support.

Re:The question is:

[dotcher]

Presumably he means the IE6 SP2 popup blocker. It's part of XP Service Pack 2, and hasn't been backported to 2K.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

NT 3.1 to 4.0 was 3 years, so the timescale is almost identical. And yes, I ran all 3 versions on similar 486/66 hardware and the later versions were much faster.

Re:The question is:

[Anonymous Coward]

Frankly, I wish this SHIT wouldn't get moderated up.

Go to www.apple.com.

Go to the iTunes page. Tell me what version the latest and greatest iTunes requires (here's hint, it isn't 10.3, it isn't 10.2).

You will never lose the ability to use your iPod because a new MacOS comes out.

Calling the bundled applications 'free software' in this context is pure misinformation. Guess what? You bought the MacOS. You got a bunch of bundled apps. You are surprised you don't get free updates (forever) that add functionality?

I agree with the gripes about security updates (they should be provided for at least 2 releases of the software).

The rest of your post is full of misinformation and ignorance.

Also, I should add that the money I spent on 10.3 was worth it in my mind. It runs amazingly well on 4 year old hardware and added a lot over 10.2. I should also add that I never paid for 10.0 or 10.1, they were included in the price of my hardware.

Getting 4 years out of my hardware and spending 7.5% of that hardware cost on software that honestly *increased the value* of said hardware? Not so bad a trade in my book.

Still, this is Slashdot, the world of 'I want everything for free, from movies to music to microcode.'

Re:The question is:

[the_2nd_coming]

umm... actually, if you read up on the core technologies, they use Units which are device independent. for core image and core video, the OS will see which is faster, the GPU or the CU and will send the Image Unit or the video Unit to the fasted hardware.

ALSO, the Core technologies are Application level technologies. if you have a card that runs QE you will still have the UI run well because QE will not be changing, except for the addition of QE 2D which will use the GFX card for more than effects.

Re:The question is:

[the_2nd_coming]

you are so full of crap. 4.0 was a bloated POS. I had to admin a network of Unisys machines running 486 66 and NT 4. it was painfully slow and bloated.

windows has not gotten much faster but that is more because of their stupid memory management and GUI composition and multitasking structure.

Re:The question is:

[Glonk]

The parent was talking about the price to upgrade.

I really don't think "for a fair comparison" you should look at the non-upgrade packages.

If you're looking at the price to upgrade, you can get an XP upgrade. You need to buy the full-out version of OS X every time.

Re:The question is:

[Glonk]

Does XP Home have Fast User switching?

Yes, it does...

It had it before OS X did, too. ;)

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

Like the other poster, I have an old G3 PowerBook and on that machine, MacOS X 10.3 is "painfully slow and bloated", but not as slow and bloated as 10.0 was. OTOH, both 10.3 and NT4 ran fine on new machines when they came out.

> stupid memory management and GUI composition and multitasking structure

Meaningless technobabble. I will say that OS X is ridiclously memory hungry and that has to limit percieved speed.

Re:The question is:

[Chemical]

Windows upgrade editions do not require Windows to be installed in order to install them. You can install XP Upgrade on a fresh system. The only catch is that it will ask you to insert an install disk for a previous version of Windows to prove that you are elegible for an "upgrade".

Re:The question is:

[Bulln-Bulln]

Will it be backported to Panther?

Apple is required to release the sources of WebCore unter LGPL. If Apple wants to maintain compatibility with older apps that use WebCore (and I guess Apple wants this), it should be possible to compile the sources under Panther.

Re:The question is:

[drinkypoo]

Interestingly, XP provides speed improvements over 2k as well, especially in the area of booting. You just have to turn off all the eye-candy crap... you know, the stuff you can't turn off in OSX. 2k uses less memory, but OSX isn't exactly gentle on the memory usage, and I know that 10.2 used more ram than 10.1. I would expect 10.3 and so on to follow suit in that regard.

Re:The question is:

[the_2nd_coming]

apparently you forgot the windows release cycle of the 90's?

Re:The question is:

[the_2nd_coming]

what web standards is that? AFAIK kHTML is OSS and is using webstandards, more so than IE (since Moz has been around for 5 years though it will be more standards compliant.)

Re:The question is:

[the_2nd_coming]

you could have the google pop up blocker and say the same thing. stop being stupid.

Re:The question is:

[the_2nd_coming]

you moron!!1 what use is free memory? it is not being used by a damned thing if it is free. OS X and all Unix based OSs focus on using as much memory as it needs to run the processes it has before swapping.

windows on the other hand gives an app less memory than it needs and forces it to swap out more often.

if you do not understand this level of discussion then I suggest you refrain from even trying to include yourself in it.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

Put succinctly: You have no idea what are talking about. You are apparently in your 30s or older, but you write and think like a 12 year old AOLer. You are an idiot and a flamer. Go away.

Re:The question is:

[bdsesq]

XP provides speed improvements over 2k as well, especially in the area of booting.

The time needed to reboot is important to windows users because you have to do it so often. I use XP in work and OSX a home. OSX users rarely reboot so the time needed is insignificant.
I am far more interested in speed improvements when I am doing useful work.

What are unable to turn off in OSX? I am sure someone here can tell you how.

Re:The question is:

[stripes]

I think IE has added a JavaScript library to do XML manipulations which Safari doesn't have.

Re:The question is:

[the_2nd_coming]

you are a moron. not I. I do know what I am talking about. simple as that.

Re:The question is:

[BasilBrush]

Which is of course nonsense. Minimum requirements for NT 3.1 was a 486/33 with 8MB memory. For XP it's a Pentium 233 64MB of memory. Both computers with those minimum spec machines will be equally crap. If you tried installing NT 3.1 on a modern machine, it would appear like greased lightning compared with XP.

Windows does not get faster and more efficient with each version as OS X does.

Re:The question is:

[CrackedButter]

For a start, try saving an entire web page offline with Safari. You can't. I had to download Firefox in order to do it.

Re:The question is:

[PedanticSpellingTrol]

Cleartype, man. Sometimes I think about going back to 2000, but subpixel font rendering is what makes it all worthwhile.

Re:The question is:

[BasilBrush]

Like the other poster, I have an old G3 PowerBook and on that machine, MacOS X 10.3 is "painfully slow and bloated", but not as slow and bloated as 10.0 was. OTOH, both 10.3 and NT4 ran fine on new machines when they came out.

In other words, OS X got faster on the same machine, but you needed a new machine to upgrade windows.

OS X deliberately uses as much memory as possible because it's more efficient to do so. You've heard of the concept of a cache? "Unused memory" is a waste of a resource that can be used as a cache. To comment that OSX uses a lot of memory just shows that you need a big cluestick with "memory management techniques" written on it applied to your cranium.

Re:The question is:

[dr.badass]

Safari is still treated as second tier, due to missing functionailty.

What functionality is that? I've never found anything that IE or Firefox can do (except maybe extentions, etc. that have little to do with web-browsing), that Safari can't. In fact, Safari does a few things that they don't with CSS.

Re:The question is:

[Herkules]

If you think windows gives to little memory to processes so that the processes has swap memory to disk, then you don't know shit!

I am sorry about the harsh words "shit", but if you think the above is true then you don't how a operating system works.

Re:The question is:

[Baricom]

*starts stopwatch*
*searches Google in a new window for "XMLHTTP"*
*stops stopwatch*

If you had taken 10.37 seconds out of your busy schedule to search Google (yes, I did time it), you would have found that the THIRD result for XMLHTTP is an Apple developer web site. Further, if you used the correct spelling of XmlHttpRequest (I didn't ding you for this), it would be the FIRST result.

Re:The question is:

[Baricom]

Come to think of it, XMLHTTP is the correct spelling for Internet Explorer, whereas XmlHttpRequest is correct for Mozilla and Safari. I apologize for that. The admonishment about doing a simple web search before posting still applies, however.

Re:The question is:

[BasilBrush]

Yes XP booting is quicker than 2000.

Eye candy is not a speed issue, it's mostly done by the GPU.

OS X memory usage is not comparable with XP. OS X caches more than Windows does. So taking a snapshot of memory use will reflect something that OS X is doing to be faster. This does not mean that OS X will run out of memory any quicker than XP. There is no advantage in having "unused memory", all memory is a resource to be used, and if it isn't, that is a waste. It's simply a different memory management model. To try and criticise the one that is using more of the available memory at any given time is not sensible.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

I guess the opinion here is that only Apple knows how to write grossly inefficient code and then sell optimization as paid upgrade. Have it your way. Sheesh.

(NT 3.1 on modern hardware would be "snappy" because of the Progman desktop, but as soon as you tried to run any programs you would find that they would be in fact much slower than on XP. IO and video performance would be terrible even if you somehow could find drivers for modern hardware.)

Re:The question is:

[Ucklak]

And Microsoft updates are?

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

Dude, MS Word X can't even keep up with my typing on that Powerbook G3. 10.3 or no, it's an obsolete computer.

I'll inform Dave Cutler about this concept of "cache". I'm sure once he learns about it he'll consider adding it to Windows. :P

Re:The question is:

[drinkypoo]

What I'm talking about is how far you go into paging file/swap space usage with a 256MB machine - it's about the same between both XP and OSX 10.2.3. I would tend to assume that 10.3 would be worse, and 10.4 worse still.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

Hey, I was wrong, but let me admonish you for not lowering your threshold before replying and therefore being redundant. :)

Re:The question is:

[the_2nd_coming]

if you think that the MS way of managing memory is the way all memory management works then you don't know shit.

there is a reason that OS X is better at Multitasking than Windows and it has everything to do with the memory management schemes.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

Show some data that OS X is "better at multitasking" or STFU about "GUI composition structures" or whatever else you are pulling out of your ass.

Re:The question is:

[BasilBrush]

It's better than writing an inefficient OS and then charging people for ever slower versions, like Microsoft.

Re:The question is:

[plj]

I got my Mac with Jaguar, and found that the Panther upgrade was worthwhile. Unlike with Windows, the OS X update resulted in a faster machine.

Upgrades can still include nasty surprises, though. I have a 12" PowerBook, bought in May 2003. That 1st generation of 12" PBooks runs rather hot, and Apple was critised of that from the beginning. I was already aware of that fact before I bought my machine, however, but it was not any problem for me (it is all about comfort, nothing is actually overheating), so I purchased it anyway.

When releasing OS 10.3.2 Apple made it to be a problem for me -- not the heat, but the noise. Along with it shipped a new version of AppleADM103.kext, which remarkably lowered the system temperature where the fan of the machine spins up. Now I was pissed; this all happened without any warning and the box became noisy as hell as the fan ran almost constantly, while previously it had started up only now and then. I felt like the machine was no longer the same I had paid for, but some badly engineered noisy box instead.

There was a solution, though: Downgrading the said kext to version shipped with 10.3.0. To this day this has worked well, but now I'm afraid what I should do with Tiger. The main Darwin version number has probably changed along with it, so I'm not sure if my downgrade hack would work anymore. Otherwise I'd like to upgrade.

Does anyone on Slashdot have any suggestions what I should do with this problem?

Re:The question is:

[BasilBrush]

If MS Word can't keep up with your typing, I sugest you place the blame at Microsoft's door.

I'm sure Dave Cutler doesn't need any education in memory management, unlike you.

Re:The question is:

[BasilBrush]

Please give some figures to back up your statement. You know what they say about assumptions.

Re:The question is:

[drinkypoo]

I can't, my mac was a POS (Rev. 1 bondi blue G3 with the bad ATA controller chip) so I got rid of it, and I have nothing to do the check on. And I'm double not going to install in PearPC :)

Re:The question is:

[NoodleSlayer]

The day you can buy a Mac without MacOS being on it is the day when you can say that its not an upgrade in that box.

Re:The question is:

[Cerender]

I see it as an upgrade since you have to by a Mac to use and every Mac ships with the OS. Apple doesn't want me to be able to build a Mac on my own. I have to buy the machine with the OS.

Re:The question is:

[amichalo]

One issue with the security updates is that Apple has not made it clear how long the official support window is. The updates to 10.1 just stopped one day.

With 10.4 coming out, it's not clear if Apple will want to EOL 10.2

I was lunching with Steve the other day and this very issue came up. I asked if he expected upgrades at the same rate from 10.0 (beta) to 10.4 as he does 10.4 forward.

Steve told me "no", that the upgrade cycle from OS X beta through 10.1 was so fast because there was so much to be done - stabilizing the OS, adding things like Quartz Extreme, Safari, etc - they had to catch up for nearly 20 years of what became OS 9 and then some in what amounts to one tenth that time.

So Steve said to expect the updates to slow down and we will see many more minor (free) point release updates between new cats. When a new cat comes out, like Tiger, it will include significant changes and warrant a new name (like Spotlight and Core Image).

Look, this is just what Steve said, but who knows, he just runs the company, it really takes all the people below him making it happen to get anything done. The CEO is really powerless. So time will tell.

Re:The question is:

[Squozen]

If it's just the one page you could save it as a PDF from Safari... lucky that it doesn't take over the OS and stop you from installing Firefox, eh?

Re:The question is:

[BasilBrush]

Well in that case, keep your comments to things you know something about.

Re:The question is:

[Mspangler]

"With 10.4 coming out, it's not clear if Apple will want to EOL 10.2, even though there's apparently a substantial userbase still on it."

I'm still using 10.2.8, for instance. Support for the 10.1 series did just sort of stop, but every machine that could run 10.1 could also run 10.2. However, not every machine that could run 10.2 could also run 10.3. Support for the Beige G3's was dropped when 10.3 came out. (Probably some laptops were in this boat as well, but I don't pay attention to them.)

I suspect that the upgrades to 10.2 will be dropped when the last of those G3 machines hit 7 years old (the time set by California law for support). How long 10.3 is supported will depend on what old machines 10.4 will fail to support.

I suspect 10.4 will require AGP graphics, which will drop out the Blue & White G3s (and again some laptops.) It could even require 4X AGP, which would kill off the first G4 machines as well. Just have to wait and see, I guess.

Re:The question is:

[poopdeville]

If you really want a Mac without Mac OS, I've got an old iMac running Gentoo. It's yours for $500.

Re:The question is:

[jc42]

So why would a reader have known to google for "XMLHTTP"? I checked (;-), and your message was the first one in this discussion to mention that string of bytes. Chiding someone for not googling for a term that hasn't appeared in the discussion is a bit ... "inappropriate" is about the only polite term I can think of. (I can think of other less polite terms.)

Now, if you'd just mentioned "XMLHTTP" and suggested googling for it, I'd have considered the message appropriate for the discussion. I'd never seen that particular acronym, and I suspect that lots of /. readers haven't, either. Interesting stuff ...

Re:The question is:

[mr100percent]

Actually, Apple has Security Updates available for Jaguar, even though Panther is the OS they are selling. They even updated OS 9 versions of iTunes and Quicktime for their iPods for a while, though I don't think they do it anymore.

Re:The question is:

[Myuu]

From the Tiger readme:
"System requirements
You must have a Macintosh computer with
a PowerPC G3, G4, or G5 processor
a DVD drive
built-in FireWire
at least 128 MB of RAM
a built-in display or a display connected to an Apple-supplied video card supported
by your computer
at least 2 GB of disk space available, or 3.5 GB if you install the developer tools"

Built in firewire seems to be the key.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

I'm sorry, I assumed that the speed hacks put into NT4.0 were well known here. The only insight you display is ignorant zealotry.

Re:The question is:

[BasilBrush]

That's funny, I thought the memory management model in OS X was well known here. You only display ignorant trollishness, and that's not insightful at all.

Re:The question is:

[drsmithy]

Yes. OS X point releases are not just upgrade versions.

Every version of OS X is an "upgrade", because you can't run OS X on something that hasn't already been licensed for a previous version of MacOS.

The reason Apple don't have to price-discriminate their "upgrade" is because you can't (usefully) run OS X without shelling out to Apple for an earlier version of MacOS. With Windows, you *can* make an "upgrade" useful without having a prior copy of Windows.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

The memory model was never misunderstood. An honest comparision between the evolution of OS X and Windows was apparently too much for you to synthesize, and you reacted with nothing but distortions and footstamping.

No, the real (Mac)Troll here is you. Come back when your reigned in your ideology enough to have an legitimate discussion.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

Oh I know, I ran NT4 on a P133 until 1999. Just trying to be fair to the Mac users here, not that they appreciate it.

Re:The question is:

[Baricom]

Point taken :)

Sorry about that. It was a heat-of-the-moment kind of thing on my part.

Re:The question is:

[drsmithy]

The time needed to reboot is important to windows users because you have to do it so often.

If you're rebooting a Windows machine more than an OS X machine, then it is broken. Either get it fixed, or stop complaining. You shouldn't be (involuntarily) rebooting a Windows (or OS X, for that matter) machine more often than patches requiring a reboot are released.

What are unable to turn off in OSX? I am sure someone here can tell you how.

Full-window resizing (ie: showing the window contents while it is resized).

Re:The question is:

[rs79]

"WinNT 3.1 was the OS X 10.0 of the 90s, lots of potential but painfully slow. NT 3.5 was faster, and NT 4.0 was even faster still. Contrary to the convential wisdom here, Win XP is slightly faster than all"

If you had actually tried this you'd know it's not true. 3.1 is faster than 95 which is faster than 98 which is faster then XP on the same system. Try it for yourself and see. In fact, 98 a 1700 mhz machine is faster then XP on a 3000 mhz machine. I reverted to 98 on one machine I need Windoze on jsut for this reason so say nothing of the fact there are minor things like parellal port scanners than can not work on that POS XP (no driver). Bah.

Even old MS-DOS versions are faster then new ones on the same hardware.

[you may | if you ask your]

Re:The question is:

[rs79]

"Bollocks. NT4 was quite snappy on average hardware of the time (Pentium 100ish). OS X needs at least a G5 to be even *close* to that level of responsiveness."

Depends on what you're doing. Pentia do better at random memory accesses so someting like Mathematica is faster on a Penita. Power PC chips excel at linear accesses to they will outperform a Pentia at the same clock rate for something like Photoshop.

To say you need a G5 to make OSX outperform NT on a Penita 100 is a fantasy and proof you've never tried it.

Don't make shit up if you expect to be taken seriously.

Re:The question is:

[rs79]

"If you're rebooting a Windows machine more than an OS X machine, then it is broken."

Sure, Windows is stable as hell. Until you load drivers for the peripherals you need. Then it becomes ustable. Maybe it's possible to make windows stable. But OSX is ungodly stable out of the box, as in weeks if not months if not years of uptime compared to hours and days for windows. I've never seen an OSX machine crash and I've only seen one hang in a program once, ironically IE.

And there really is someting to be said for having and icon you can click on to get a real unix prompt not some POS with a bizarre version of CP/M with incorrectly facing slashes. To say noting of windows bizarre notion of requiring the GUI to work to configure the GUI. Broken. Put windows in televsion more (320x240) then tell me how long it takes you to unfuck that.

I've railed against macs for two decades, and I still think OS9 machines are unusable but when forced to use one with OSX to do real work for two weeks that all changed within an hour. They work, they don't crash, it's a turnkey BSD system than you can seamlessly plug your camera or whatever into. It's what Windows might be in 10 years, although that might be overoptimistic.

I'll concede Windows has more game titles. I think that's appropriate. I write unix code and don't play games and don't care which game console you pick. Wintel might be an excellent platform for that. Big woop.

Re:The question is:

[drsmithy]

Sure, Windows is stable as hell. Until you load drivers for the peripherals you need. Then it becomes ustable. Maybe it's possible to make windows stable.

Of course it is - trivially easy - just avoid POS hardware with equally POS drivers.

But OSX is ungodly stable out of the box, as in weeks if not months if not years of uptime compared to hours and days for windows.

I repeat: if you can't measure your Windows uptimes at the same level of your OS X uptimes, your Windows machines are broken. Get them fixed or stop complaining. Your problems are not Windows's fault.

I've never seen an OSX machine crash and I've only seen one hang in a program once, ironically IE.

I've seen several kernel panics out of OS X.

And there really is someting to be said for having and icon you can click on to get a real unix prompt not some POS with a bizarre version of CP/M with incorrectly facing slashes.

Sure there is, if you give a flying fuck about a unix (or any) commandline in the first place. Most people don't.

(I do, but that's because my job is being a unix admin - that's why I have unix devel boxes and Cygwin.)

To say noting of windows bizarre notion of requiring the GUI to work to configure the GUI. Broken. Put windows in televsion more (320x240) then tell me how long it takes you to unfuck that.

Boot in safe mode, reset resolution. Shouldn't take any more than a couple of minutes.

I'd be interested to hear how you think OS X is any different in its notion of "requiring the GUI to work to configure the GUI" as well.

I've railed against macs for two decades, and I still think OS9 machines are unusable but when forced to use one with OSX to do real work for two weeks that all changed within an hour. They work, they don't crash, it's a turnkey BSD system than you can seamlessly plug your camera or whatever into.

You don't need to sing the praises of OS X to me. Apart from its sluggish UI, it's great. That's why I bought an iBook.

However, my Windows machines also just "work" and they "don't crash". If yours aren't, the problem is at *your* end.

Re:The question is:

[CrackedButter]

No its more than one page sadly, but thanks.

Re:The question is:

[NoodleSlayer]

If you really want a Mac without Mac OS, I've got an old iMac running Gentoo. It's yours for $500.

And yet, you still paid for a license of MacOS when you bought the computer.

After all, what makes a Mac worth the extra bucks is the software, not the hardware. If all you want is a PPC based system IBM will be happy to supply you with one, granted at a much higher price then the system you'd get from Apple.

Re:The question is:

[bdsesq]

Boot in safe mode, reset resolution. Shouldn't take any more than a couple of minutes.
Thanks! You just confirmed the point in my original post. That the time it takes to boot windows is much more important because windows users have to do it more often than OSX users do.
What I got out of your post is that Windows users are so accustomed to rebooting that they don't even realize that it should not be necessary to do normal things like change the screen resolution.

Re:The question is:

[BasilBrush]

Yes, you did misunderstand the OS X memory model. For example you said this:

"I will say that OS X is ridiclously memory hungry and that has to limit percieved speed."

The fact that you still don't realise that you have misunderstood the OS X memory model just adds to your cluelessness. Read for example the 2nd eMail here, and learn. Calling OSX memory hungry and worse thinking that that must limit speed quite simply proves that you didn't understand the OS X memory model.

I'll continue to deal in facts if you don't mind.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

OK let's quote your link: "When the kernel starts to perform swapping it's a sign that the physical memory in the machine has been oversubscribed."

This has absolutely nothing to do with cache -- unless you are condending that OS X is swapping out program segments to increase disk cache, which would be silly, which is why I dismissed it.

It's my observation that OS X tends to need more physical memory than an equivilant Win or Linux system. The "perceptual speed" of a stock 256MB OS X system running mail/web/office tasks is very poor -- basically continually thrashing. Whereas on Windows it's acceptable. Even a 512MB OS X system can be borderline. This corresponds to what people report in Mac-oriented technical forums.

And once you go into swap the perceptual speed is primarily based on Disk IO, not the OS or the CPU. And if you have a slow laptop drive, that just compounds the "perceptual speed" problem. Fine. RAM is cheap.

So, I might as well go back to the original point -- the 8MB minimum specs for NT were a joke, the system would swap like crazy just bringing up the desktop. Realistically NT machines had 32-128MB even back in the mid 90s. Once you eliminated all the swapping, you would find that each NT OS was perceptually much faster than the previous version. I know, I had a Pentium-133 128MB into the Win2000 era.

If I was comparing minimum spec 128MB OS X system, I could equally say they were all slow as shit. But that's exactly what you did with Windows systems.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

That's nice, but maybe next time you can get Steve to stop talking about new product plans (probably a hard thing to do) and instead give us a hint when he will EOL old products.

For example, when I was chatting with the other, fatter, balder and sweaty Steve, he pointed me to a page which states Windows 2000 will go out of support in 2010.

Re:The question is:

[NutscrapeSucks]

Well, I was talking about NT OSes, not DOS-based ones. 98 uses less RAM than XP, the desktop might be snapper, but I think if you measured things like IO performance, you'd find that it was not at all faster.

Re:The question is:

[spir0]

This is actually starting to become a problem for me because I can no longer justify buying a new Mac. I'd like to buy a flash new PowerBook with its light sensitive led's on the keyboard, built in SuperDrive, bundled with iLife, and other nifty software, but my 550Mhz TiBook just runs so damn well.

I want another machine, but Apple's accursed habit of optimising code every major release means I don't need another machine.

Damn you Apple. Damn you all.

Re:The question is:

[BasilBrush]

This has absolutely nothing to do with cache

The OS X use of cache is described in the link I gave you. Yes, obviously it's a different think from swapping. But the cache explains why looking at a system monitor for memory used per application, or for free memory is not useful. It'll look full most of the time.

As regards your comment on 256MB. Yes, it's too small if you want to run several applications at once. But that us also true of Windows XP. I'm on XP right now, with my usual number of applications open, and it's using 837MB of RAM. If I only had 256MB it would be thrashing like mad.

Your comment on 512MB OS X being borderline is pure shit. My Mac has 512MB and I never, ever get it into a thrashing state in normal usage.

You continue to prove you haven't a clue.

Re:The question is:

[drsmithy]

That the time it takes to boot windows is much more important because windows users have to do it more often than OSX users do.

Er, no. I didn't "confirm" anything of the sort. I described a method for recovering from a situation where (I *assumed*) the normal moethods for changing screen resolution were unavailable because the machine had been switched to a resolution the screen didn't support.

This can also happen in OS X. I'd be interested to hear your recovery procedure for that not involving a reboot (or killing the whole display system, which for 99% of people is functionally the same thing).

What I got out of your post is that Windows users are so accustomed to rebooting that they don't even realize that it should not be necessary to do normal things like change the screen resolution.

It's not, and hasn't been for 10-odd years now. The early '90s called, they want their rhetoric back.

Or maybe I should start criticising OS X based on the flaws of MacOS 7.6.2 ?

Of the two Windows machines I use regularly, my home machine has 2+ months of uptime and my work machine has 3 weeks - the latter is only so low because I've just started at my current job, the former because that's the last time I installed some new hardware.

Re:The question is:

[drsmithy]

Depends on what you're doing.

I doubt any 1995-era PPCs would be slower at their Pentium counterparts at anything in terms of raw performance. Unfortunately most of them were crippled by MacOS Classic and couldn't really perform to the best of their abilities.

By the way, don't be such a wanker - it's Pentiums (I bet you say "virii" as well and think it's cool, right ?).

To say you need a G5 to make OSX outperform NT on a Penita 100 is a fantasy and proof you've never tried it.

That's not what I said at all - and I *have* tried it. A 64MB Pentium 100 (I happen to have such a machine around because I use it for playing old games) running a 1996ish installation of NT4 (or even with the IE4 update) has a snappier, more responsive GUI than OS X on anything short of a G5. Certainly, the G5 plasters it in any *speed* benchmark, but I was (clearly) talking about UI responsiveness.

Don't make shit up if you expect to be taken seriously.

I'm not making anything up. While OS X almost certainly has the best-of-breed GUI at the moment, it's sluggish and unresponsive (apart from a few of the flashy effects) on anything but the highest-end machines.

Re:The question is:

[bdsesq]

This can also happen in OS X. I'd be interested to hear your recovery procedure for that not involving a reboot (or killing the whole display system, which for 99% of people is functionally the same thing).

Since you asked.....This actually happened to me last Friday. I had finished a presentation and unpluged the projector from my powerbook and put it to sleep at the same time (more or less. I wasn't paying attention because people were asking questions.)
After a few minutes I noticed the powerbook was not sleeping (the throbber was dark). So I opened it up and found the screen was dark. When I hit the "detect displays" key the powerbook figured out what was connected and displayed things properly.
NO REBOOT NEEDED.
You said you owned an iBook so you can try out what I just said for yourself. Or you can RTFM.

Re:The question is:

[kc0re]

Let's do this right... Microsoft Windows XP Professional w/ Current Service Pack, full install (That's a direct comparison to Mac OSX -- excluding functionality and use... $269.99 OS X Tiger -- 129.99

Re:The question is:

[DavidRavenMoon]

Have I missed something? $93.99 for an XP Home upgrade

OS X would be more like XP Pro.. which is $269.99 for the upgrade.

Plus OS X is NOT an upgrade. You get the full installer for $114, so you don't need a previous version to install it.

Re:The question is:

[DavidRavenMoon]

I'm not sure what you mean by "because you can't run OS X on something that hasn't already been licensed for a previous version of MacOS." The OS X install disk has no restrictions as to where you install it, so long as you can run OS X on that machine. And of course you don't need a key code.

I have installed it on machines that never had OS X on them. There was a couple of upgrade CDs that required an older OS X install, but there were either free, or cost $19. The retail CDs are full installers, and you can install on an empty hard drive if you wish.

The minor upgrades in-between the major ones, i.e., 10.3.1, 10.3.2, etc., are of course free, but since they are updates, you need at least 10.3 to run the combo upgrade, and of course it doesn't upgrade a 10.2.x install.

Now if you are referring to OS 9, you don't need that on a mac to install OS X. You can install onto an empty hard drive. If you are saying they don't give you OS 9 ("shelling out to Apple for an earlier version of MacOS") that's not correct either. Even if it's not installed by default, OS 9 is on the OS X CD. It's in the additional software install folder.

Re:The question is:

[Glonk]

I see the reality distortion field is in full effect these days.

The Windows XP Home upgrade is $93.99, the XP Pro upgrade is $179.99.

I don't care that OS X is not an upgrade, if you read the original post you'd see it was a comment about "price of upgrades".

Not to mention that the vast majority of people do not need the Pro featureset (go name a few that Grandma needs on her computer...)

The simple fact is the upgrade costs of Windows for most users are lower than MacOS. Want to do some math?

Let's do the math for the average user:
Windows XP Home upgrade, purchased in 2001: $93.99
Total cost = $93.99

MacOS X, 2001: $129.99
MacOS X 10.2: $129.99
MacOS X 10.3: $129.99
MacOS X 10.4 (april): $129.99
Total cost = $519.96

Even if the user bought Windows XP Professional, as a brand new install, this is a significant savings.

It's irrelevant that MacOS X doesn't have an upgrade package, it's just another example of Apple's milking practices. They even put MS to shame, and that's quite an accomplishment.

Re:The question is:

[drsmithy]

When I hit the "detect displays" key the powerbook figured out what was connected and displayed things properly.

And what if you have a machine without a "detect displays" key ?

NO REBOOT NEEDED.

Just like Windows in the same circumstances.

You said you owned an iBook so you can try out what I just said for yourself.

I don't question its possibility, merely its relevance to your example.

Re:The question is:

[DavidRavenMoon]

I see the reality distortion field is in full effect these days.
The Windows XP Home upgrade is $93.99, the XP Pro upgrade is $179.99.

Okay I obviously quoted the full price by mistake... however the upgrade is $198.49 at Amazon (which is where the other prices were quoted from).

Also I think it's obvious that it might be cheaper to upgrade with Windows for a couple of reasons. First there isn't that many upgrades! You showed yourself that after buying Win XP in 2001 how many upgrades have there been (not counting Service Packs)? MS spends a long time between upgrades.

Another reason is that a lot of people get a new PC and it has the latest version of Windows on it, so there's no need to upgrade. And this can be any PC made in the last 4 years or so. But this also means you are running an old OS. 4 years in computer years is like what? ;)

However a lot of people are also buying Macs with OS X on them. And some of the people I know are still running whatever came on their Mac... Jaguar, Panther, whatever. I started out with an older G4 running OS 9.0, so I've bought every OS X upgrade since 10.0 (I didn't bother with the PB release... 10.0 was painful enough!). But then I also get them for a discount because my wife is a teacher. :)

And I agree that Apple should have an upgrade path, like they used to. At least they should honor the coupons they put in the damn box! Mac OS was $90 for the longest time... I guess as Steve's plan to get them back in the black he's become a bit greedy. They don't give away as much as they used to.

But this is in line with most software upgrades... I have to upgrade things like the Adobe Creative Suite and QuarkXPress, not to mention MS Office all the time... this stuff gets expensive!

Re:The question is:

[DavidRavenMoon]

For example, when I was chatting with the other, fatter, balder and sweaty Steve...

Ha!

he pointed me to a page which states Windows 2000 will go out of support in 2010.

Hey but what are all the Windows 3.11 users to do? ;)

And while that comment was in jest, my sister-in-law had a Windows 3.11 laptop she liked to use. She wanted to get it on the internet (don't laugh!), but the driver she needed for her modem card wasn't available anymore, since MS killed off all Win 3.11 downloads.

While I'd imagine Apple will stop selling older versions of Mac OS X (if they haven't already), or even updating it, they do have System 6 and 7.x available for free download!

Re:The question is:

[DavidRavenMoon]

Win XP is slightly faster than all of them, if more memory hungry.

I actually find W2k pro to be faster than XP.

As far as OS X, 10.3.8 runs great on my 466 MHz G4 (digital audio) with 1 GB RAM. We even had it running well on a 400 MHz G4 (gigabit) with 512 MB at work. We upgraded that machine to a 1 GHz G4 recently though. But it runs fine on older Macs. My G4 has a Quartz Extreme capable video card, but the upgraded G4 doesn't, and except for no shadow on the mouse pointer and no spinning fast switcher cube, you can't really tell.

We will have to see how well Tiger does however. And none of these OS's was as fast as BeOS! :)

Re:The question is:

[HumanTorch]

Why would the technology be any different? I am suggesting you get the same new microsoft pop-up blocker if you install the SP or get the toolbar.

Re:The question is:

[the_2nd_coming]

Here is a nice discussion of it for you

OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[otter42]

Someone refresh my memory: doesn't Mac offer free upgrades for all Macs bought sufficiently close to the new version's release date? If this is the case, how close is close enough?

Re:OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[wtmcgee]

It's 2 weeks i think.
This link used to have relevant info, but it's since been changed:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/

Once tiger is announced, I'm sure they'll update that page.

Re:OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[k3v1n]

Usually within a month, although this April release date is not an Apple-confirmed fact but rather a ThinkSecret-reported rumor.

Re:OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[Anonymous Coward]

usually once it is "officially anounced" any new system purchase will be able to obtain the new os for the cost of media (I think $20).

Re:OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[Apple Acolyte]

Dude, if you're posting to Slashdot you should know that the name of the company is Apple, not "Mac."

Re:OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[Moofie]

Who is this "Mac" that gives away free upgrades to Apple software? I'd like to talk to him...maybe he can give me a hookup.

Re:OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[TheCrazyFinn]

It's generally $20 to cover shipping costs. Some Mac dealers will get stock specifically for these upgrades, so you can get it for free occasionally.

Re:OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[ratsnapple tea]

I've always wondered why people do this. I'm pretty laid back when it comes to typos (I mean, you kind of have to be to read Slahodst without exploding) but when I see people referring to a company called Mac, my field of vision begins throbbing crimson. Do other companies have this problem? And don't even get me started on the "MAC" thing.

I also wonder why I find it so massively obnoxious. Maybe I really am that anal.

Re:OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[mehgul]

Come on ! This is clearly a case where the guy's thought was ahead of his typing, so he typed Mac instead of Apple just because he was already thinking about the Macs he mentioned a few words later (of course he didn't bother to re-read what he wrote, or preview). Don't tell me it never happens to you !
Besides, it happens that people refer to Microsoft as "Windows".

Re:OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[v1]

FYI, the day a new OS is released, (or iLife actually) Apple sends little bundle kits (in "promotional" packaging, in other words, clear envelope no box) to the authorized apple retailers, to stuff into the new mac boxes. So the day tiger ships, (or a few days later at least) all macs should ship with it. It may not be on the hard drive or on the install DVD, but it WILL be in the box. Apple has done this most recently with iLife 2005, so I would expect them to do it for Tiger as well.

Re:OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[Moofie]

I've never, ever heard or seen anybody conflate Microsoft with Windows.

Re:OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[hunterx11]

A true troll is subtle, and may even exhibit wit. It must be capable of upsetting people because they disagree, but feel that your position is tenable enough that you actually hold it. As Lao Tzu would say, the true troll is the unknowable troll.

You, sir, are no troll. You fail it.

Re:OS10.4 Upgrade for new Macs

[otter42]

Actually, I did preview, I just didn't notice it. For me, they're one and the same, although I understand that this is utter heresy to so many others.

I pledge to try not to cross my Macs with my Apples in the future.

And thanks to all those who, you know, actually bothered to answer my question.

Re:DVD only?

[KajiCo]

I don't know if you can boot from external device, but you can boot from an internal disk image.

Re:grrrrrrreat

[Anonymous Coward]

Apart from Tony the Tiger is an *American* character, you moron.

Getting slower, contents

[Anonymous Coward]

Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger to arrive in April

By Ryan Katz, Senior Editor

March 11, 2005 - Apple will officially announce Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger's release at an event in early April and will begin shipping the operating system within two or three weeks afterwards, Think Secret has learned. Apple has previously only stated that Tiger will ship during the first half of the 2005.

The event, sources say, is currently scheduled for Friday, April 1 and will be delivered via satellite to numerous locations around the world. Unknown at this point is where the event will take place and whether the media or other outsiders will be invited to attend. Well placed sources say Tiger will likely be in stores by April 15.

Multiple pieces of information gleaned from sources in recent weeks have pointed to an April release date for Tiger. Apple has doubled the software metrics for stores and resellers for the second quarter, ending May 31, for example. While several new software titles slated for release at NAB on April 18 will boost software revenue for stores, Tiger will be the jewel that Apple expects will allow resellers to double their sales from the first quarter.

At least one of Apple's new pro apps the company will introduce at NAB will also require Tiger, sources say. Additionally, Apple is currently targeting updates to its iMac G5 and eMac systems for mid-April, which will come pre-installed with Tiger and iLife '05 (see related story).

In recent weeks, Apple has significantly increased the frequency of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger builds released to developers, another indication that development is rapidly wrapping up. Earlier this week, a gaffe on Apple's Mac OS X downloads page also listed three new categories pertaining to Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger: links to "Automater Actions," "Dashboard Widgets," and "Spotlight Plugins" all lead to pages that were not yet available at apple.com. Apple has since removed those links from the categories listing.

Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger will sell for $129 and has been billed as the most substantial upgrade to Mac OS X since the operating system debuted.

QuickTime 7 will also be released with Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger, sources say. A Mac OS X 10.3-compatible version, code-named Gibson, will be released around the same time.

Re:Getting slower, contents

[Anonymous Coward]

$129 ? Screw that! It's a "dot" release! It should be free! It's just a small improvement!
So are you going to pay $150 in 6 months when they come out with V 10.4.1 ?
Are you Mac people stupid or what?
Pay rent to Apple because you own their closed hardware, IDIOTS!

Re:Getting slower, contents

[ivano]

yeah, and it's an even number dot release too. So it won't be stable! Jeez some people are stupid

ciao

Re:Getting slower, contents

[thryllkill]

He should be. He'll need a custom kernel to run on that home brew processor he built to avoid all the "closeness" of the Intel or AMD lines.

Re:Getting slower, contents

[Anonymous Coward]

Pst. I know critical thinking isn't a prerequisite for life, but pay attention please.

Paid Update OS X 10.0

Free update OS X 10.1

Free updates OS X 10.1.1 - 10.1.5 or so

Paid update OS X 10.2

Time between paid updates ~ 12 months

Free updates OS X 10.2.1 - 10.2.8

Paid update 10.3

Time between paid updates ~15 months

Free updates OS X 10.3.1 - 10.3.8

Next scheduled paid update 10.4

Shortest possible time between paid updates updates: 18 months

So no, no one will be paying $150 in 3 months for a point release.

And you're the idiot if you think you need OS X to use Apple hardware.

Re:Getting slower, contents

[buckhead_buddy]

Once again, they are just using rumors to support their own speculations.

• Apple's new fiscal year starts on April 1st, and if they are expecting to announce a great financial report they will likely have a satellite conference call. They typically go out of their way to avoid making new product announcements to the cynical accounting journalists who participate in Apple's "beleaguered" conference calls.
• If Apple is going to make even a June 30 release date they will start pushing plans hard in advance to make sure nothing slips. This includes making sure the dependencies like WebCore and Quicktime are ready to go far in advance of the things that depend on them.
• Apple has officially end-of-lifed "Shake". Unless they want to exit this arena, NAB is a likely place and time to reintroduce its replacement. Whether the new Shake replacement is actually introduced then or whether it requires Tiger says more about Apple marketing than Tiger's development cycle.
• Apple usually updates all it's hardware if software will make it sell better. If just the iMacs and eMacs are getting a software update on April 18, this says more that it's NOT the OS that will be getting the change. Something else aimed at the home and education crowds perhaps, but not something to make those considering a PowerMac favor the lower-end products.
• Apple has announced Automater, Dashboard, and Spotlight would be extensible. It's quite likely they will provide downloads on their website. It's not suprising that their web developers would be getting this ready to go (even if it is three months away) nor that they'd take it down (since there's nothing actually available on those pages).
• A Quicktime update may be released as part of Tiger, but it's release cycle is far different since it has to work on old systems and Windows as well as the Mac. Their work depends on being widely marketed independently of the Mac's current OS. Correlations between expected Quicktime and Tiger releases is completely a Marketing decision.

Re:Getting slower, contents

[Ilgaz]

Looks like you have to recompile /includes/joke.h ;)

Re:DVD only?

[tabkey12]

1) Apple is almost certainly going to ship a CD edition of Tiger. The DVD edition was only for the Developer's Preview.
2. All Macs after iMac Slot-Loader can boot from FireWire Optical Drives.
3. Even better, FireWire Macs can access the optical drive of another Mac when the slave Mac is booted into FireWire Target Disk mode, removing the need for an external DVD drive!

Re:DVD only?

[Altima(BoB)]

Wait, don't combo drives have DVD functionality too? I always figured a combo drive referred to a DVD reader + CD-RW in one drive (At least that's what it means for my Cube.) Also, if I remember right, yes you should be able to boot from an external FW DVD drive.

Re:DVD only?

[tabkey12]

?!

You can boot OTHER macs over a network via NetBoot with a disk image, but this requires OS X Server. Not really in the hands on the average Mac user...

Re:DVD only?

[imroy]

Considering the recent stories about booting Linux from iPods, I'd say YES. Any FW (USB?) device will probably do. I've heard there's even a (OpenFirmware?) feature where you hold down 'T' when the Mac boots and all the harddrives will then be accessable over the FW bus. Not sure if that also works for optical drives. That'd be cool if you could borrow someone elses' Mac so you can use their DVD drive over FW to your iBook. Must stop rambling now...

Hi!

[Anonymous Coward]

It looks like you're voicing a dissenting opinion.
What would you like to do?
* Go to your nearest LUG meeting for reprogramming.
* Buy a large number of Apple stocks in atonement.
* Get bitchslapped.
* Get modded up now as Interesting and modded down later as Troll.

April 1st

[AnotherJake]

April 1st is the beginning of Apple's fiscal year, so that wouldn't be a surprising release date.

Re:April 1st

[rob_squared]

WinFS and Duke Nukem Forever, to name a few.

Re:April 1st

[AnotherJake]

You are absolutely correct. I was mis-informed by a collegue. I figured that was correct since they were founded on April 1st 1976.

Re:April 1st

[Gil-galad55]

Gmail, for instance, iirc. And I did actually think it was a hoax, since Google does have a bit of a sense of humour (PigeonRank!), but I was quite thrilled to see it was not!

C+++++

[computerme]

For ($obvious == 0; $obvious $adnaseum; $obvious++) {

printLine "April 1st? Is this some sort of April Fools joke?";
printLine "Released on April 15th. Apple is going to release it on Tax day?";

}

Re:C+++++

[rob_squared]

See! C++ *is* efficient. He just made fun of everyone with one statement! But next time, use an assembler, you can even choose the architecture!

Re:C+++++

[j.bellone]

That would be PHP buddy.

Re:C+++++

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

PHP has no "printLine" function. Neither does Perl, and those are the only languages (that I'm aware of) that use a "$" to denote variables. I think the grandparent is confused. :)

Re:C+++++

[j.bellone]

Well the use of $ for variable names means it's definately not C++; assuming that "printLine" is a function that could have been declared by the person writing the code; it could be PHP.

Re:Hang on...

[throughthewire]

using trade secret law to trump the free speech rights of independent journalists...

Why should free speech trump the rights of an individual or a company to use a contract to keep information private?

Re:Hang on...

[Slack3r78]

Or maybe some of us are able to be somewhat rational? Personally, if Microsoft had been in Apple's shoes, I'd have felt the same way about the ThinkSecret case, and I'm anything but a Microsoft appologist (IE: I firmly believe the DoJ should have broken up the company).

The Apple vs Does case is more about reaffirming trade secret law that's already on the books and has already been affirmed by the courts many, many times. So no, I don't really see it as a 'victory against journalism.' No one is facing penalties for what they've printed at this point - and this isn't exactly a whistle blower case that deserves special privelege. But feel free to check my comment history on the subject - I've been consistent in my viewpoint and after reading the judge's opinion yesterday, I seem to have had it about pegged.

On topic, Tiger's looking to be a rather interesting release. Apple's putting metadata to good use with Spotlight, and I'm interested to see how Dashboard's ended up looking. The real story, I think, may end up being the behind the scenes part of the OS - CoreImage. It truly opens the door for a first-party Apple Photoshop killer, if Adobe refuses to adopt the interface. Remember iMovie and FCP are only really around because Adobe declined to make a good consumer oriented video editing system, so Apple did it themselves. Could we be seeing this happen again?

Re:grrrrrrreat

[mrsev]

fair enough... can honestly say I have never been to the US and so have no firsthand knowledge of their breakfast snacks. I stand corrected.

April 1st

[imnoteddy]

Lots of software announcements happen on April Fools Day.

What about my Tiger-on-Tiger action?

[Crono]

My question is: Will their JDK 1.5 port going to be ready?

It sounded like it wasn't very far along, and I need my hot OpenGL-accelerated Tiger-on-Tiger action.

G4 laptop seems old now

[adachan]

Why would you buy a laptop with just an OS update. This is so strange about MAC fans. I would refuse to buy it until they get a g5 in it as well as the new OS.

Re:G4 laptop seems old now

[Silly Burrito]

Well, I don't have a laptop now (save a VERY old Powerbook with System 7 on it), and if they don't come out with a G5 soon (June/July), how long should I wait? I'm ready to try a new OS, so I figured I might wait and experience the latest and greatest Mac OS. And now (if this proves to be true), I'll be able to soon, at least with the Mini. There's always going to be something new coming along on the horizon. I waited until Tiger because I knew it would come out soon as Apple has openly promoted it. When has Apple actually promoted the G5 notebook? I'm sure they'll figure it out soon (especially seeing what they did with the iMac), but until then, I'd really like to get a laptop soon. Having Tiger and iLife 05 will just cinch it for me (although it would be nice if they'd also include iWork with Tiger!)

Re:G4 laptop seems old now

[nolen]

Maybe because (1) the G4 PowerBooks are very, very good; (2) there is no indication that G5 PowerBooks will come out soon, and some reason to believe it could be 2006; and (3) other than the 1337 'G5' name, there wouldn't actually be a huge advantage to them anyway? Oh, and of course, (4) if you need a computer to actually get some work done, you buy it when you need it. Not according to guesses about future release schedules.

Re:G4 laptop seems old now

[derrith]

A G4 processor is perfectly sufficient for the majority of tasks. They are quick, pretty, and easy to use. Last fall, in fact, I picked myself up a used 1ghz. Titanium Powerbook. I don't think I'll need to upgrade for a few years now. Also, with every release of OS X, it's run faster on the same hardware. Meaning that my G3 Tower will get a little kick, along with my Powerbook.

Regarding the G5, I believe that Apple is having a hell of a time getting it to run cool enough and at a low enough wattage to continue the Apple Laptop battery promises. I get 3-4 hours of use from a 3 year old battery. I wouldn't upgrade to a G5 if life dropped to the level of the majority of pc laptops(1.5-3 hours, pentium mobile not included)

Re:G4 laptop seems old now

[wootest]

Most people like this want to buy a new machine anyway, but seeming as how *most* Apple computers are far from cheap in general (mostly good value, but still expensive) they are willing to postpone it by a month or two if that means they'll save $129. Hell, they might even save another $79 if Apple decides to bundle iLife '05 with Tiger.

Re:G4 laptop seems old now

[wtmcgee]

What is a MAC?

Seriously, it's a Mac. MAC is something my network card has.

Re:G4 laptop seems old now

[adachan]

The reason I asked in the first place is that I have many friends that are graphic designers. They are currently using g5s for their work and they do not want to use windows based laptops. They tried the same tasks on the g4 powerbooks and they seemed sluggish compared to the g5 counterpart. I am personally in science and there is a major lack of support for many software titles outside of windows. I do not think an OS update will change the ability to work with large graphic files (not without a hardware update to go with it). I should have made myself clearer in the first post. I was not talking about web browsing listenting to music and watchign dvds. I am talking about more intensive things.

Re:G4 laptop seems old now

[xgamer04]

Yeah, I refuse to buy a new PC laptop until they have dual xeons and 2 gigs of ram...

Re:G4 laptop seems old now

[HAKdragon]

What's so strange about those damn network users?! ;)

Re:G4 laptop seems old now

[wootest]

Shit, that's true. I forgot about that. Thanks. (I got caught up in thinking about if iLife '05 would be bundled with Tiger the retail version - when Panther started selling, iLife the retail package that you actually have to buy hadn't been created yet, and so this is the first time they'll have to make that decision.)

Re:G4 laptop seems old now

[Thu25245]

The reason I asked in the first place is that I have many friends that are graphic designers. They are currently using g5s for their work and they do not want to use windows based laptops. They tried the same tasks on the g4 powerbooks and they seemed sluggish compared to the g5 counterpart.

Obviously. G5 desktops, with dual cpus, clock rates up to 2.5GHz, and desktop-speed hard disks are much faster than 1.67GHz PowerBooks. Similarly, a Pentium M laptop is sluggish compared to a dual Xeon workstation. That doesn't mean a PowerBook or a P-M laptop aren't worth buying.

I am personally in science and there is a major lack of support for many software titles outside of windows.

Completely seperate issue, but...what branch of the sciences? About half of the scientists I've met use some flavor of Unix, and have nothing but disdain for Windows. The other half don't seem to care.

I do not think an OS update will change the ability to work with large graphic files (not without a hardware update to go with it).

Funny you should mention that.

Re:Just a thought

[Silly Burrito]

I'll bet my wife would be pretty pissed off if I did that!

Re:Hang on...

[NaughtyNimitz]

I agree!

Typical for the American Press is to use the "Freedom of speech"-trumpet to trample all over your legal rights: Privacy, Non-disclosure agreements, R&D Secrecy.

That said, I'm very keen on trying out Tiger Server, with full Access Control Lists (at last!).

Re:Don't buy Apple

[computerme]

oh please. some dude with a blog spouting off what his cat did today does not a journalist make....

nick at think secret is a rumor monger. not a jounralist.

please don't lump this case in the same class as the Pentagon Papers. You perform a diservice to real journalists and all our rights when you do..

What's in Tiger

[Twid]

FYI, the Tiger pages at Apple have been updated recently.
Here's a nice tour of the features.

In my opinion, most of the new features in Tiger are more developer-friendly than end-user-friendly, but that's OK, because I think you're going to see some incredible apps come out that use Core Image, Core Video, and Spotlight. Those apps should be what make you want Tiger, not Tiger itself. Out of all the new stuff in Tiger I think the new Mail.app is the best. People spend their work day in e-mail, and the new mail.app looks incredible.

Don't forget Tiger Server. It's a really nice update. New ACL system, 64-bit native, iChat Server (using Jabber), weblog server, and a new software update server. The most interesting feature to me is the new Portable Home Directories. Mac OS X clients will be able to have a home directory on their laptop, and it will trickle sync the home directory with the network when you are connected to your office server.

Personally, I don't believe the ThinkSecret rumor for a second. Apple is *way* too marketing savvy to release a product on April Fool's Day. Also, April 1 is a Friday. Apple almost always announces products on Tuesday. :)

- Todd

Re:What's in Tiger

[generic-man]

Can Mail.app 2.0 check mail in folders other than INBOX without having to run the "Synchronize" command all the time?

I haven't found a Mac OS X mail program yet besides Entourage that can check mail in multiple folders. Thunderbird thinks it can do that, but its new mail check shares the same bugs I've seen since Netscape 4. (It thinks mail that I've seen in another program, but that Thunderbird hasn't seen before, is "new.")

Re:What's in Tiger

[andy55]

Personally, I don't believe the ThinkSecret rumor for a second. Apple is *way* too marketing savvy to release a product on April Fool's Day. Also, April 1 is a Friday. Apple almost always announces products on Tuesday. :)

Yep. I'm on the Rendezvous dev apple list serv and I know first hand that the apple dev who moderates it (Marc something) said they won't license the windows version of it (dnssd.dll) to windows developers until Tiger is released (for legal licensing and/or ip reasons). The apple guy who works w/ him on licensing has been turning down licensing requests (mine, for example) for windows rendezvous licensing, even after I told him we wouldn't be shipping until 2 months from now. Put one and one together and June is probably the month.

Re:What's in Tiger

[Twid]

Hmm, I'm not sure that an inconsistent UI is a market advantage. While some of the new stuff like the Dashboards in iPhoto are a bit wonky, I think the inconsistency is more likely that Apple is getting larger and it is harder to keep the different app teams in sync.

Who knows if the look and feel in the screenshots is the final look? The buttons actually look like the navigation tabs in OS X Server Admin, and yeah, I don't care for that look very much either.

Re:What's in Tiger

[Twid]

I can only comment on what's on the public website, so unless you have access to the Tiger builds, you'll just have to wait and see! :)

FYI, anyone with $500 can get access to the Tiger builds with a Apple Developer Connection membership that you can get here. This gets you a one year ADC membership, which includes discounts on Apple hardware for your own use, free developer copies of Tiger when it releases, developer support, etc.

Re:What's in Tiger

[rokzy]

nooooooooooo! the new mail looks hideous. what's with the outlook clonage? what's with all the blank space?

Mac stuff tends to be shortcut key based which I love, so why have this appalling dumbed-down GUI? do the mailboxes slide away like the current mail? I hope so.

Re:What's in Tiger

[brianmed]

That's a good point about April Fools and the Tuesday / Friday thing. However, there is one point that could possibly be taken into consideration:

They pooled their financial resources together to have PC boards made, and on April 1st, 1976 they officially formed the Apple Computer Company.

Taken from here.

Re:What's in Tiger

[alphakappa]

"Apple is *way* too marketing savvy to release a product on April Fool's Day"

Is it so bad to release a product on April Fool's day? hmm... should've told that to Google before they released Gmail.

Re:What's in Tiger

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

I think it's a much better improvment and even looks better. I hate the silly side-drawer. I can't see the point of having a drawer if it's going to left open all the time (kinda like a real drawer, really). And I'm sure if you don't want it, you can hide it. As for the space, it makes sence. It looks weird, and gives the wrong message by having all those button hanging over the folder area, when they only perform functions on the main part. I'm also not sure what you mean by it's been dumbed-down. I'm sure you can still add buttons etc. if that's what you mean.

Re:What's in Tiger

[rs79]

"April 1 is a Friday. Apple almost always announces products on Tuesday. :)"

That's the most insightful thing said on this whole page. The only press releases that get issued on a friday are the ones poeple want buried; by monday nobody cares. ICANN is famous for doing this. That's really is what they do.

Re:What's in Tiger

[bug_hunter]

They should of because nobody at my work believed it. Took about one week before people realised it was serious.

Re:Why does Slashdot promote OSX so much?

[repetty]

>> OSX isn't a "free" (as in speech) operating system. It may
>> be based on a Unix-like foundation, but thats on excuse.
>> We should be promoting Free software, not closed.

Why? What makes you believe all this rubbish?

Perhaps you have Slashdot confused with some other web site.

My bet is that you used a commercial for-profit ISP to connect to Slashdot in the first place, utilizing hardware that was manufactured by companies who's products also aren't "free" (as in speech).

My guess is that the doctor who snatched you from your mother's womb was, likewise, not "free" (as in speech).

Quit being silly.

Re:Hang on...

[zieroh]

so many loyal slashdotters were welcoming Apple's victory against journalism?

If you had actually read any of the articles or bothered to spend 10 minutes informing yourself on the topic, you would realize that in fact Apple had not scored a "victory against journalism", but instead had won the right to subpeona records in order to determine how information was illegally obtained.

The judge stated, quite rationally, that it didn't matter if the bloggers at the center of the case were journalists or not, for even journalists lack the right to publish trade secrets that do not benefit the public interest. More to the point, the judge stated that interest by the public is not the same as public interest.

So if you want to go on being misinformed, then please be my guest and don't read the articles. But at least have the decency to do so quietly and not spread FUD around the internets.

Whee, check out the troll who got modded up!

[Paradox]

Apple... um... didn't win against journalism. Hell, the fact that bloggers are or are not journalists didn't even enter the equation there. The Judge left that to Daily Show skits and CNN talking heads.

Heck, Apple didn't even really try and stop Nick from posting Apple-related news. What they did do is compel him to reveal his sources, which were illegally sharing Trade Secrets.

This was pretty clear from, you know, the fucking artciles linked of the thread you posted.

Crawl back in your hole.

/. QA

[BibelBiber]

I miss that Slashdot quality assurance thing that used to be. I mean editors seem to publish more and more unuseful things over the time. I think /. readers should not need to read all those rumors. There is enough ThinkSecret, AppleInsider and so on to look for this kind of information. What's wrong here anyway? BTW, thanks for modding me down. I am actually a Mac user and I love both, Mac and /. I just don't like recent steps taken by both.

Thanks for reading. You can now turn off your computer.

Re:/. QA

[babbage]

I miss that Slashdot quality assurance thing that used to be. I mean editors seem to publish more and more unuseful things over the time.

Hm? Looking over the oldest Slashdot stories I can find on Google (searching just for timestamps in the url, not for any particular string in the page body), I'm not sure if I agree with that rose-colored past:

• Slashdot | Enlightenment Themes Vote
  Enlightenment Themes Vote -- article related to Enlightenment.
  slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=98/01/27/224500&tid=11 5 - 17k - Cached - Similarpages
• Slashdot | New WindowMaker
  New WindowMaker -- article related to GNUStep.
  slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=98/01/29/172600&tid=94 - 17k - Cached - Similarpages
• Slashdot | New E Already Released
  New E Already Released -- article related to Enlightenment.
  slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=98/01/19/091100&tid=11 5 - 17k - Cached - Similarpages
• Slashdot | ePlus DR9 Released
  ePlus DR9 Released -- article related to ePlus.
  slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=98/01/18/042400&tid=11 9 - 18k - Cached - Similarpages
• Slashdot | New E Relase
  New E Relase -- article related to Enlightenment.
  slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=98/01/18/071301&tid=11 5 - 17k - Cached - Similarpages

Okay, it was the 90s, people were crazy and did foolish things like use Enlightenment and hang on every patch that came out, but come on. Sure, these stores are at least real events rather than future speculation, but they're hardly any more substantial than this article today...

Slashdot can be a fascinating site, but it has never been a beacon of elevated journalistic rigor. I gave up on it becoming such a thing a long, long time ago -- it is what it is, and it's not what it's not. So it goes.

Re:/. QA

[rs79]

"Slashdot can be a fascinating site, but it has never been a beacon of elevated journalistic rigor."

No, it's more like a cross between alt.flame and talk.bizarre.

I keep waiting for the Brahms Gang to show up. Dominus is already isolized.

Re:/. QA

[illumin8]

I miss that Slashdot quality assurance thing that used to be.

You're new around here, aren't you?

Re:/. QA

[BibelBiber]

Looking at our /. account numbers I am new here :-) Maybe 5 years now? But I seem to remember that only 6 months or so ago only half of the stories were posted. Whatever, maybe there's a nieche with selecting good /. stories and post them on a different site again. After modding and so on.

Re:/. QA

[illumin8]

Looking at our /. account numbers I am new here :-) Maybe 5 years now?

You're right... I was just making a joke.. Since slashdot has never really had good quality assurance (dupe story postings, etc.).

Re:Hang on...

[nick this]

I was going to say "you must be new here" until I noticed your uid. :)

I sometimes think the same thing, but then I realize that the people who comment on stuff in general are those with strong opinions either way.

So when I see people bitching about a gpl violation, and in the next article see people advocating downloading music from p2p sites, I guess I just assume that they are different people. I guess I don't try to assume that every reader shares the values of "the collective".

I do find it interesting that there are so many Apple apologists though. It might be because the "Apple People" follow the apple articles the most and post most aggressively in their defense, while "The PC People" don't really follow the Apple articles as much and allows the discussion to become skewed.

I don't know. It is interesting though.

Just as a point of reference, I'm an Apple fanboy, and I think the idea of Apple using lawyers as a blunt object with which to beat college kids running rumor sites is bullshit.

Mini !!!!

[JPriest]

I was waiting for Tiger before I buy my iMac Mini. It looks like April might be the month that I become an official "I don't really use a Mac, but I do have one on a KVM" users. Id gets a new toy, yippeee!

Re:Why does Slashdot promote OSX so much?

[stebe]

Slashdot bills itself as "News For Nerds. Stuff That Matters." Clearly the latest release of OS X matters to the nerds.
The delicious irony a *free* software advocate telling others what they *should* do is making me hungry....

Re:DVD only?

[hatrisc]

yes, they do, but you misread the parents post. he said "without" a combo drive. you are correct in what the combo refers too. the superdrive refers to dvd+/-rw/cdrw

Re:Don't buy Apple

[cowscows]

True enough, not to mention that the Think Secret case has less to do with whether or not they're journalism, and more with whether or not they posted information in violation with trade secret laws. Those laws exist, they're defined, and they do not make exceptions for journalism.

TS and their lawyers trying to make this an argument of Apple vs. blogs is them trying to make a case in the court of public opinion, since they've got no good defense in the court of actual laws.

G5 PowerBook unlikely

[jamrock]

IBM is still having serious problems with heat dissipation, so unless they produce a throttled-back chip, the G5 is unlikely to make its way into portables anytime soon. The consensus among Apple watchers is that dual-core G4's from Freescale (formerly Motorola's processor division) are likelier candidates for portable Macs.

Re:Don't buy Apple

[wootest]

Specify in which Think Secret article Nick talked about "what his cat did today". You're right - it's about rumors. You're wrong - it's not a weblog just because it's published serially.

I refer you to the excellent "If The New York Times Jumped Off a Bridge" for good parallells between journalism and Think Secret's material.

Re:Why does Slashdot promote OSX so much?

[AddressException]

We should be promoting Free software, not closed.
Says who? YOU?

Re:Don't buy Apple

[aventius]

If you ran a company where another organization was bribing your employees to release corporate confidential information, you'd be pissed too. Now obviously, blame needs to be lie on the employees that released the information. So, Apple asked and then demanded that the journalists release the names of the employees but they wouldn't.

Sure journalists should have a right to keep their sources secret but don't companies also have a right to have trade secrets? So, why should journalists be permitted to have their secrets after they engaged in activities that negated a company's rights to secrets? Think about it.

This entire situation is shitty on all accounts. On one hand, the employees need to be fired. Secondly, journalists should not be bribing an organizations employees for secret information. Lastly, Apple shouldn't care so much. No one takes ThinkSecret all that seriously. How many times have their rumors been absolutely ridiculous besides being incorrect? Remember how many times they've published rumors about a new PDA, G5 Powerbook, iTablet, or an iPhone?

Re:Why does Slashdot promote OSX so much?

[wootest]

It's not a matter of if it's free or not. It's a matter of if it's good or not.

Re:

[Jozone]

Only Valve uses that as a justification for not shipping things on time. /feels a Troll coming on

Re:DVD only?

[mr_goodwin]

You can install from DVD on an older mac, prividing you have another mac available with a DVD drive and a firewire cable.

First, boot the mac with the DVD drive with 't' held down. This boots it in 'target' mode.

Next, plug in the firewire cable between to two machines, and boot the second machin with option held down. Choose the OS image from the first mac, boot, place the DVD in the drive of the first mac, and run the installer (on the second mac); this allows you to install the OS image to the drive in the second mac .

I don't know if you need to boot from the image on the target mode machine; I had to repair a machine recently which required this step - don't know if it's always neccesary.

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[NtroP]

OK, maybe I'm really missing something here.

I thought ThinkSecret was getting "sued" to get the names of the person(s) who gave them the secrets. Everyone is making is sound like Apple is asking ThinkSecret to shut down, pay millions, or some other onerous thing. This is not the case. Apple asked ThinkSecret for a name. ThinkSecret said "No". Apple then asked the court to compell ThinkSecret to give them the name. After careful consideration of the case the court said "yes". NOW, if ThinkSecret STILL refuses, the court might impose a penalty, such as fines or jail time.

Apple wants the name(s) of those who violated the law and broke their NDA (so they can go after them for actual damages, etc.). The courts ruled (this is my translation/interpretation) that ThinkSecret IS/ARE journalists. However, even journalists don't have the right to withhold the identity of a source who has violated the law by giving the journalist the information in the first place. The idea that journalists can protect their sources is a good one, because is allows them to break stories about "public interest" (not "things that interest the public" - there's a difference). Things like whistle-blowing (which, although might really piss off the company, is NOT illegal to do).

If ThinkSecret had instead run a "leaked" story that MacMini's were produced by indentured 6-year-olds and were made of Soilent Green, they would NOT have been ordered to give up their sources. NDA's do not cover releasing information about violations of the law or dangers to the public. They DO cover releasing information that is a trade secret or other proprietary information that you have signed a contract to NOT give out.

Journalists, like ThinkSecret, do NOT have carte-blanch for releasing any information they want and STILL protecting their sources. I don't even think the court has said that ThinkSecret was wrong to release the information they did. They just know now that they can't LEGALY protect their sources in these type of situations. Does this make it harder to get "credible" information in the future? You bet. That sucks for them. Their sources will have to give them information REALLY anonymously and ThinkSecret will have to guess which ones are real/likely, with the rest of us. Their free-ride is over.

Re:DVD only?

[NoData]

Wait, when was the last iBook released that didn't come with a built in optical drive that could read DVD-ROMs? When was "no optical drive" ever a choice? It think even the very first of the white ibooks had this functionality. Maybe you'd have to go back to the mult-colored toilet seat models to find one with an optical drive that doesn't read DVD-ROM.

Apple was incorporated on April 1st

[johnpaul191]

that's the first of a long line of releases and whatnot on the day.....

I wouldn't want a G5 in a laptop...

[argent]

I wouldn't want a G5 in a laptop. You can permanently damage yourself running that hot a processor in your lap.

Seriously, though, I hope Apple goes with the Freescale dual-core G4 for mobile use before the G5.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[Rick Genter]

I guess I got lucky then. I bought a 12" PowerBook G4 about 3 weeks ago and have no issues with it. Good battery life (> 4 hours), no dead pixels, no wobble, and the trackpad works extremely well. I especially like the new "scrolling trackpad" feature, though it's taken me some getting used to putting two fingers on the 'pad (10 years of avoiding putting multiple fingers on the 'pad is taking some effort to overcome :-).

Sorry to hear you've had such problems.

e.g. WIMP

[foobsr]

If it weren't for OS X and Windows, what interfaces would KDE and GNOME developers strive to imitate?

"window, icon, menu, pointing device"

See Xerox Star (aka Dandelion) GUI.

CC.

What about J2SE 5 "Tiger?"

[inertia187]

Is Mac OS X Tiger going to have J2SE 5 "Tiger" as well? I don't see much mention about Java except a little in the XCode area. They don't mention a version at all. Maybe I just missed it.

Re:What about J2SE 5 "Tiger?"

[karevoll]

Yes it will. It was included in developer seeds 369 and above. :)

Re:What about J2SE 5 "Tiger?"

[The Unabageler]

well, that's probably because java sucks. like emacs. let's see, what other holy wars can I fight in one post...

Re:The answer is:

[EatingPie]

It's all about the money (duh).

Apple makes money off iTunes (music store / iPods), and they provide security updates for Jaguar (good security means good PR means more OS sales). So they certainly have a reason for these particular updates.

While it certainly is possible Apple will give Panther a Safari 2.0, I wouldn't bet on it. There ain't any money in it for them.

-Pie

Re:Hang on...

[ky11x]

The free speech rights of journalists are not trampled upon. There is NO constitutional right for journalists to keep the names of their sources secret. Some states have laws that protect this right, but there is neither a federal constitutional right nor a common law privilege. The state laws are not absolute privileges either -- in the California case, the judge ruled that California's shield law does not cover the type of reporting done by the fan sites.

From the ruling: "Unlike the whistleblower who discloses a health, safety or welfare hazard affecting all, or the government employee who reveals mismanagement or worse by our public officials, (the enthusiast sites) are doing nothing more than feeding the public's insatiable desire for information."

This seems to be lost in all the hysteria over Apple's suit. Apple is NOT suing ThinkSecret for damages. They are suing ThinkSecret only to get the names of the people who did reveal trade secrets. Those people broke their NDAs and Apple wants to go after them for breach of contract. There is, of course, no "free speech" right to break a contract in which you agreed not to reveal those secrets. Apple's target is those people, and that's what the law suit is about.

Now, since ThinkSecret is refusing to reveal the names of those sources, and since there's no privilege to keep those names secret, it is in contempt of court. This is a fundamental aspect of our justice system, that the litigants are entitled to "everyman's evidence." You definitely want this. Think about it. If you were in an accident and none of the witnesses want to testify, where does that leave you? You can subpoena them to testify in court and reveal what they know, and if they refuse, they can be held in contempt of court. This is exactly analogous.

Don't let the label "journalist" fool you. We are all journalists -- we post on a blog and we report what we see and what we think. If you are going to give "journalists" a right to keep quiet about evidence, then everyone would have this right, and our system would not function. The First Amendment emphatically does not allow you to keep silent in court unless you have an applicable privilege.

Re:DVD only?

[Toraz Chryx]

500Mhz g3 white ibooks without DVD read ability exist.

Re:Hang on...

[Speare]

Trade secrets are things that are meant to remain secret indefinitely, so as to enjoy a form of protection that is longer-lived than patents. To call product specifications which are released a few weeks or months before they're posted on Apple.com makes a mockery of trade secret protection law.

Re:Just a thought

[aergern]

Cheers!

Why do all NOT married readers of /. use that "get a girlfriend" line when we talk about buying new geek stuff. Is it a dis to women that they take up all time and money so if one has a girlfriend.. then one has no time or money for geek toys? I guess some of us married folk have time and money enough for both. ;)

Dear Tiger Fans

[Letter]

Dear Tiger Fans,

I've seen the preview release of Tiger...
It's grrrrrrrrrrreat!

Letter

Re:Dear Tiger Fans

[Tumbleweed]

Yeah, but does it stay crunchy in milk?

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[Trillan]

If people try to steal copies of the release version, they'll probably get sued as well. And maybe criminally charged, too.

I think Apple is having fun with the rumor sites

[varmittang]

I have notice that every time now that there is a rumor about a product release. The date comes and goes, then a couple days later or a week later they finally give it out. I wonder if they do this after the rumor comes out, or they give out a false date to throw everyone off. I'm guessing that it will be April 4-8 that we will see this produce gets showen. Also, has everyone seen Sneak preview: Engadget RSS feed as seen via Tiger Quartz Extreme .

What upadte was not worth it for you...

[SuperKendall]

I find the updates to be generally worthwhile - each one has seen decent speed improvements, each time a number of programs like Mail are updated, and one of the updates gave us Expose which was certainly worth paying for.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[Red_Winestain]

FWIW, my 2-week only PB 15 (2GB RAM, 100 GB HD) has none of those problems. The only "problem" is the Airport Extreme card still has poor reception, at least compared to my old white iBook G3.

On the plus side, battery life is superb, auto dimming works well, and I love the back-lit keys.

The parent didn't say what PB he had. Perhaps the 17" have more problems. I didn't get that one, as it is just too large for travelling. I decided not to wait for a G5 due to the noise of the G5 iMac at work.

Re:Just a thought

[Silly Burrito]

Offtopic, I know, but I met my wife over the internet 9 years ago, so it's pretty safe to say that without any "Geek Toys", I wouldn't be married to her now! Aergern, I'm guessing they use that line due to jealousy, perhaps? ;) Heck, my wife almost uses the main computer more than I do...why do you think I'm buying a new one?

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[jcostom]

Seems I too have been exceptionally lucky. I just got a new 15" and my wife got a new 12", both the latest revisions with the new trackpad. No dead pixels, no trackpads that don't work, none of the stuff that people have been trumpeting loud & long about.

My only point of complaint was the trackpad on the 15" seems to track a bit slow for my tastes at the default setting. Turning up the tracking speed fixed that right up. Totally fine now.

applerumors.slashdot.org ?

[Udo Schmitz]

What is this? First Think Secret is reffered to as a blog (Is every site with more then on article per month considered a blog these days?) now some stupid ass rumor of theirs is handled as fact?

To me it seems that these are tries to build sympathy for Nick Ciarelli. To put him in a light where he is seen as a fellow blogger/journalist. And thereby making Apples efforts to look like an attack on constitutional rights. If /. is willing to post any Apple related rumor now, I have a dozen stories ready for submission here.
</rant>

Re:applerumors.slashdot.org ?

[1000101]

Apparantly the mods think it should be

Re:Hang on...

[throughthewire]

Because these individuals whose free speech you want to abridge are not signatories to the privacy contract.

By analogy, then, would you agree that selling stolen property - which you know is stolen - is perfectly legitimate, as long as you're not the one who actually stole it?

And that no one should be able to compel you to reveal the identity of the thief?

Right - I'll be sending some guys around to your place, then. But don't worry - they'll just be stealing information, such as your bank account and credit card numbers. And I'll just be posting them in my blog.

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[Leo McGarry]

Read this blog post which I linked from another story last night. The author does a good job of walking you through exactly what Apple is claiming, including providing a copy of the complaint itself.

Long story short: Apple says that Ciarelli offered anonymity in exchange for trade secrets. In California, offering something in exchange for somebody breaking a contract is called tortious interference. Second, Apple says that Ciarelli knowingly published trade secrets. In California, it's against the law to do that, under the Uniform Trade Secrets Act.

So yeah, Think Secret is probably going to have to shut down or pay millions or some other onerous thing because Ciarelli broke the law.

You're only thinking about one small part of the dispute, the subpoenas for the names of the leakers.

Re:Don't buy Apple

[Leo McGarry]

Um. The thesis of Gruber's article is that Think Secret is not a news site, because a news site would have known not to break the law in pursuit of a story.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[Mwongozi]

For what it's worth, I bought a new 15" PowerBook from the Apple Store in London a few weeks ago (just after the new models were released) and it's fine, no problems at all.

Not really...

[Crono]

I wish that you were right. I really, really do.

Maybe the AWT system components are OpenGL-accelerated, but other in-Java parts are not. For example, image operations can be OpenGL-accelerated in JDK 1.5 (presently you have to request it).

In the above example, on most Windows boxes, I get roughly comparable performance using accelerated Java2D as I get doing the same things in Java3D or JOGL, and it's fast. On the other hand, on Macs, the same stuff runs 30-40x faster in JOGL or Java3D than it does in Java2D.

Re:Just a thought

[sowdog81]

Maybe you should get a girlfriend instead. Wouldn't that be something !

When's the release date?

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[myov]

Personally, I think quality started slipping when Apple moved to Quanta instead of building at their own plant. The TiBooks had various issues too (who is stupid enough to PAINT a notebook?, seized hinges, etc). Not that the powerbooks are bad machines, but it just seems that the G4 line has had a higher than normal rate of failure.

Re:Don't buy Apple

[Leo McGarry]

Just for the record, I don't think you can really call what Nick did "bribing." He offered a promise of anonymity in return for secrets, and that's definitely against the law, but I think "bribing" is misleading and goes too far.

Just a nitpick.

Re:Hang on...

[KevinIsOwn]

We have freedom of speech. The right to violate a company's NDA is not part of it. The journalist was in no way inhibited because they never should have had the information in the first place.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[Mikey-San]

Brand-new 15" PowerBook G4 here. 1.5 GHz, 1 GB of RAM, Combo Drive. One finicky pixel. That's it. No wobble, case problems, or other issues. (LCDs inherently are subject to pixel problems when you're dealing with mass amounts of them; it's just the way of the tech.)

Who mods up ONE voice of sub-quality without modding up the FOUR other contrary voices?

Re:Hang on...

[throughthewire]

To call product specifications which are released a few weeks or months before they're posted on Apple.com makes a mockery of trade secret protection law.

I didn't say 'trade secret protection laws.' I said 'contract' - as in NDA.

If it's okay to violate an NDA, as long as you do it by telling a reporter what you know, then just what exactly is an NDA for, in your opinion?

Re:Why does Slashdot promote OSX so much?

[Trillan]

Because free as in speech doesn't apply to which stories are run.

Re:Don't buy Apple

[wootest]

Yes. True. I said in my original comment that it deals almost exclusively with rumors - which no news site does, nor any site whose de facto purpose is to keep the reader informed of what happens to his cat.

Is it this sentence that confuses you? I refer you to the excellent "If The New York Times Jumped Off a Bridge [daringfireball.net]" for good parallells between journalism and Think Secret's material. I didn't say that Think Secret's material was journalism, I said that the piece contains parallells between what the NYT might have done and what Think Secret did, both having the same information and all other things being equal. None of this conflicts with what you're saying unless I'm missing something painfully obvious.

Re:Hang on...

[sagei]

"Why should free speech trump the rights of an individual or a company to use a contract to keep information private?"

Because free speach is the very basis of democracy and the rule of law?

Actually, no. While we hold those rights very high in the United States, the basis of democracy and capitalism is property rights.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[SteveX]

Brand new Powerbook G4 1.5ghz here too, about 2 weeks old.

Trackpad started sporadically losing its mind - it wouldn't let me move, would think I was trying to do two finger scrolling when I wasn't, would jump around... Took it in for service.

Now my two week old Powerbook is at the dealer, who won't have time to look at it for 7 to 10 days. Beauty.

Re:Why does Slashdot promote OSX so much?

[Moofie]

Who is this "we"? Some of us don't have any issue at all with proprietary software, particularly when that software is superior to other alternatives. In my opinion, that's the case with OSX. Nothing else compares.

I've been running it for a couple of months

[SSpade]

Pre-release versions for developers have been out for a while. I'm using the current one on my desktop machine and it seems stable and pretty much production-ready.

Spotlight and Dashboard are both very neat, but the biggest improvement (or at least the stuff I miss when I'm on my 10.3 laptop) is the new Safari build. Apart from the (really nice) integrated RSS reader the changes aren't that major, but it's a more pleasant app to use.

Re:I've been running it for a couple of months

[BlueDjinn]

Bigger question: How's the overall performance (compared with Panther running on the same hardware).

That is, if you're able to talk about it without violating any NDAs, of course... :)

Re:I've been running it for a couple of months

[SSpade]

I haven't measured it (and wouldn't want to release any numbers if I had, as it's just not fair to benchmark a pre-release build of anything, let alone an OS). But it seems very responsive for everything I do with it (and it's running on a not terribly fast iLamp), but Panther was also pretty snappy on the same hardware.

I suspect there'll be some amount of performance improvement, as the pre-release of Tiger 'feels' as fast as the production release of Panther, yet is bound to have been built with a lot of debugging code.

Safari seems a fair bit faster to render, as does Mail.app, but I suspect that's improvements with those apps rather than anything OS related.

Re:It's Mac not MAC

[KarmaMB84]

or Media Access Control?

Re:DVD only?

[TheCrazyFinn]

Educational Models of the G3 white iBook exist without DVD drives, as well as normal versions of the 500MHz and 600MHz.

The other recent no-DVD machines were the 1st and second rev base-model eMac. 3rd rev machines come with the Combo as standard.

Re:Don't buy Apple

[Leo McGarry]

I don't know if I'd call it painfully obvious, but I do feel like you're missing something. See, Gruber's point was that any parallel you might draw between professional reporters and Nick Ciarelli are completely outweighed by the massive differences. Namely, that a professional reporter would never have done with Ciarelli did. Of the comparison, Gruber says, "This is a bogus argument, on several levels." (He then goes on to explain the levels, but I'm not gonna quote the whole article.)

Saying there are parallels between what Ciarelli does and what The New York Times does is kinda like saying that they're the same because they both write in English. The similarities are superficial and meaningless compared to the differences, which are huge and significant.

Re:free speech?

[lp-habu]

People love to assume that freedom of speech and freedom of the press allow them to say anything or publish anything they like without suffering any consequences. It doesn't work that way, folks. Congress is prohibited from enacting any laws which prevent you from saying or publishing, but nothing requires Congress or anyone else to protect you from the consequences of your actions.

Perhaps you assume that if you are not free to perform an action without regard to consequences, then you are not truly free to perform the action. If so, then you are truly misguided.

Re:DVD only?

[calstraycat]

No. People with "combo" drives will be fine, because "combo" drives support DVD-ROM.

All the "combo" drives that Apple has shipped with Macs can read DVDs. Hell, my 1999, 400 MHz G3 iMac can read DVDs. I installed Panther from DVD on that machine.

The point being, you don't need a "Superdrive"-equipped Mac to install from a DVD install disk.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever SEEN 12" powerbook? It has metal case just like all other powerbooks.

Re:Hang on...

[Speare]

The NDA contract is between Apple and a second party. Typically, one does not sue or subpoena a third party when the second party is known to breach contract. If the second party is not known, then this is all a fishing expedition or a SLAPP, both of which should be thrown out of court with malice.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[j.bellone]

Sure looks like 3 people having problems, not just one. I'm sure there are a lot more that aren't reading slashdot either. Good enough for me to mod them up.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[calstraycat]

Sorry to hear you got a lemon. I think it's a bit presumptuous to assume the problem is widespread based on anecdotal evidence though.

I've had my new 15" PB for over a month now and have had no problems. The trackpad scrolling works great and I love it.

Is anyone else vaguely concerned

[Nine Tenths of The W]

That Apple's OS updates follow the same naming conventions as Wehrmacht tanks? If 10.5 is called Maus then we're going to be in trouble.

Re:Is anyone else vaguely concerned

[Rob_Bryerton]

That Apple's OS updates follow the same naming conventions as Wehrmacht tanks?

There's a "Think Different" joke in there somewhere, but I'm not touchin' it...

Re:Is anyone else vaguely concerned

[drinkypoo]

You don't have to touch it, it's already been touched. "Here's to the crazy ones..."

Re:Is anyone else vaguely concerned

[bar-agent]

How better to take over the world?

dual processor laptops before g5's *

[alternapop]

dual processor laptops before g5's *

Re:dual processor laptops before g5's *

[ArbitraryConstant]

Well those new Freescale chips aren't even out yet.

The only question is whether or not IBM can make a laptop optimized G5 before Freescale can release the MPC8641. Or rather, who did Apple believe could do it when the commited, which no doubt happened long ago.

Re:DVD only?

[ps_inkling]

At least mention how to use Target Disk mode...

Restart your Macintosh

While the Macintosh makes the pleasant startup sound, press and hold the 'T' key on your Macintosh's keyboard

As you wait approximately 20 seconds for Target Disk mode to begin, imagine the profitability of the third step

When the pretty day-glow orange FireWire logo appears on your Target Disk Macintosh's screen, release the 'T' key

Connect your Target Disk Macintosh's FireWire port to another Macintosh's FireWire port using a standard FireWire cable

Watch as the drive(s) of the Target Disk Macintosh appear on the screen of the other Macintosh in bright day-glow orange

Copy files previously unaccessable on the Target Disk Macintosh to a safe location

With Target Disk mode, it's easy to make backup copies of critical files for offsite storage.

You are indeed missing something here...

[Anonymous Coward]

What you're missing is that this ruling is the headland of the slippery slope. If there is an exception to the shield law in case of "crimes committed by the source", then all that the government or any company or any private individual need do is find any possible crime, no matter how minor (and trade secret violation is rather minour), to force a source to be revealed. Proof of crime is not necessary according to this judge, nor is a preponderence of the evidence, merely a suspicion that a crime may have been committed is enough.

You're missing that there is the presumption that a crime was committed. Since the informant is unknown, we don't know if the submitter of the information was one who, let's say, overheard a conversation between two Apple employees? While the employees should have been more discreet, the third-party commits no crime when he reveals what he overheard. However, in turning over that name, ThinkSecret destroys their own future source's faith and thus by extension the faith of any person communicating with reporters.

What you're missing is that this ruling is an interpretive ruling from an activist judge. The California shield law does not make an exception for journalist shield privelege if a crime was committed in the turning over of information. If the legislature had wanted that exception, then the law should have been written that way. The judge should not substitute his will for the will of the people.

Re:You are indeed missing something here...

[Reverberant]

The judge should not substitute his will for the will of the people.

Do you really believe that?

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[groomed]

A friend of mine has had similar experiences here in Europe. His iBook(s) died on him three or four times in the past two years.

To be fair

[rbanffy]

That is unfair, to say the least.

Besides that, it is a comparison of XP to OSX 10.4 - they are years apart release-date wise. One should compare XP to OSX 10.1 or 10.2.

WinXP has numerous usability improvements over 2000, the look-and-feel being only one of the least signigicant ones.

Windows Explorer is a lot smarter when it comes to deal with media files - filmstrip and slideshows are something very useful when browsing thru a large number of pictures (and I have a large number of pictures). The tasks on the left pane are also very useful (even if they get on the way of the folder tree) - no right-click-new-folder to make a new folder, for instance.

Date and time can be synchronized with NTP servers (2000 only synchronized with the domain controller, IIRC)

There is the switch user thing - your wife can check her e-mail while you are downloading something - Apple even copied this one (there is always a first time for everything).

There is remote desktop (and yes, its server side works better than VNC, at least on Windows).

There is sub-pixel anti-aliasing for LCD displays

And it was released about 2001, IIRC.

True - many of these things existed and exist currently on other desktops (I wish I could switch users easily on Gnome, tough), but to say that XP is only a tiny little bit better deal than 2000 is useless Microsoft bashing (and I do quite a lot of it).

Before bashing Microsoft (or anyone else), you should try to use their products. Really.

Re:To be fair

[rokzy]

I think you missed the "imo" in my post.

I do use XP. I don't use an LCD. I don't need remote desktop or user switching.

the 'feature' to automatically create an icon for movies REALLY pisses me off. is there a way to permanently disable it? I disable it per folder and delete the thumbs.db. but then if I move the folder the next time I open it I have to do it all over again. NO I DO NOT WANT TO WAIT WHILE YOU SLOWLY GENERATE LOTS OF BLACK ICONS. the preview in the sidebar is annoying too. I never use it but often I try to delete a file only to be told I can't because it's in use - Windows is accessing it to generate a useless preview.

as I said, the only reason I upgraded was because of bluetooth support (also ATI was about to drop driver support but I'm not so bothered about the latest drivers).

also if you insist on judging XP as a 2001 product, then you must also take its flaws from that time too - blaster etc.

anyway, the point is I feel a lot better about paying for 10.4 than I did about XP. from my own experiences Apple keeps getting better. with MS it's a one-step-forward-two-steps-back thing (security, DRM etc.). YMMV.

Re:To be fair

[Libraryman]

the 'feature' to automatically create an icon for movies REALLY pisses me off. is there a way to permanently disable it?

Why, yes. Yes, there is. It is a registry edit, and I'm sure there are tools out there to do it for you, if you are uncomfortable with that. What is it, you ask? Well I'll tell you . . . no I won't. Use your google-fu. If it takes you longer than 10 minutes to find and implement it, you need a new google-fu sensei!

Re:To be fair

[rokzy]

google-fu aside, you're saying I either have to download a 3rd party application or manually edit the registry to change a simple file browsing option?

I thought Windows was supposed to be easy.

Re:To be fair

[Khuffie]

And OS X creates .DS_Store files in every directory. Even shared Windows drives on the network, which you can't disable. Oh, and you have to download applications to unhide hidden directories in Finder, or use the terminal which requires knowledge of UNIX commands.

Besides, compare the OS X updates, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, to Windows SP upgrades, which are free, and are equivalent in terms of functionality upgrades. But MS gives em out for free, Apple charges full price.

Re:To be fair

[Libraryman]

Yikes! Where could you have possibly gotten the idea Windows was supposed to be easy? Certainly not from me or my TiBook.

Seriously, though. I know you only say that to make a point. And I agree, it is absurd that you have to hack the registry to turn of a "feature" that slows even a high-performance PC into a dog the instant you open a folder full of pirated movies. The only explanations I can come up with are:

1. The MPAA paid them to do it.
2. They are incompetent buffoons.

Since it is impossible to even delete a movie file while it is being scanned and an icon is created, #1 seems like an unlikely option.

To be completely fair, there is some lag on my Mac too, when I click on a movie file, while it opens a preview with QuickTime. But that can be avoided by not browsing folders full of movies in column view.

Re:To be fair

[rokzy]

>compare the OS X updates, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, to Windows SP upgrades, which are free, and are equivalent in terms of functionality upgrades

bwaaaaaaaahahahahhahahahahahahahaaaaaa !!!!!

I thought you were being serious until this point. so you're comparing MS finally releasing a firewall and pop-up blocker (and crappy ones at that) to an OSX .x release.

you cannot be serious.

Re:To be fair

[Khuffie]

And what do the .x releases entail? The biggest one is Expose, which is a hackneyed attempt at overcoming the uselessness of the Dock. The next biggest thing is Spotlight, which Microsoft has already released for free for there OS.

Re:To be fair

[drsmithy]

he biggest one is Expose, which is a hackneyed attempt at overcoming the uselessness of the Dock.

While Expose was certainly created to work around the utter suckiness of earlier OS X task-switching UIs, it is hardly "hackneyed". It's an efficient, easy-to-use and elegant task-switching UI. If you're a major multitasker, it alone justifies the $129 pricetag.

Re:To be fair

[Khuffie]

It's an efficient, easy-to-use and elegant task-switching UI.

Sure, its way better, but its no way near as efficient and easy to use as a good old fashioned task bar. And I said hackneyed to illustrate Apple/Steve Jobs refusal to admit mistakes of not incorporating a taskbar into their OS, just as they still insist on using one button mice.

Re:To be fair

[rs79]

"requires knowledge of UNIX commands."

el-ess, see-dee...

Ref: Unix commands for fucking morons by Dan Gookin, P35.

"Windows SP upgrades, which are free"

Yes, but OSX actually works.

Would a BSOD emulator for BSD make you happy?

[do not bother to]

Re:To be fair

[drsmithy]

Sure, its way better, but its no way near as efficient and easy to use as a good old fashioned task bar.

I'd have to disagree with that (and while I do own an iBook, I spend most of my day using a Windows workstation). Expose - assuming you can bind it to a mouse button - is much better for multitasking and task switching, particularly when multiple monitors are factored into the equation.

Having used both fairly extensively, I'd have to say my preference is Expose over a taskbar for the purposes of multitasking/task-switching.

Re:To be fair

[daeley]

Oh, and you have to download applications to unhide hidden directories in Finder, or use the terminal which requires knowledge of UNIX commands.

Unless, of course, you'd rather use the spiffy "Go to Folder" command under the Go menu (with a convenient apple-shift-G keyboard shortcut) and type in your hidden directory that way.

Re:To be fair

[Maserati]

Well, the .3 release also had a lot of optimizations under the hood. It runs noticeably faster on the same hardware. Another speed boost came from Quartz Extreme - offloading lots of the UI to the GPU. And a total rewrite of Mail.app, it was dog slow in 10.2 but was downright snappy with just shy of 6000 emails indexed. And, brushed-metal considerations aside, the 10.3 Finder is much nicer than 10.2 and the Sidebar is extremely useful. They also slipped in the ability to edit keyboard shortcuts on a system-wide basis, OS X handles very well from the keyboard. An email client isn't worth nearly $129 (I have paid for Eudora in the past) but a faster OS in general and a better file manager is worth some money.

Previously, the 10.2 point release was a major upgrade over the not-really-ready-for-the-desktop 10.1 series.

And btw Expose rocks. Expose with virtual desktops rules. I can't believe the ad campaign isn't (ahem) spotlighting Expose.

Re:To be fair

[Squozen]

Windows compatibility got a major lift also, a better PPTP client, Active Directory support and Address Book/Mail also started working with Exchange servers.

Panther also added FileVault, which most people don't use, but doesn't have an equivalent on Windows as far as I'm aware. Apple also added Font Book and upgraded the Preview app, improved faxing, PDF searching, the list goes on. Most of the changes seem insignificant, but they really add up. I couldn't stand going back to Jaguar. Fortunately I have a job and can afford spending A$230 every 15-18 months to improve my computing experience...

Re:To be fair

[rbanffy]

also if you insist on judging XP as a 2001 product, then you must also take its flaws from that time too - blaster etc.

OK, I missed the IMO. Sorry for that.

The SPs should be compared to the point-releases of OSX. You should then compare XP SP2 to, say, OSX 10.2.12 or OSX 10.3.10 (or whatever the release number is)

And yes, I prefer Debian + Gnome and OSX over XP, but I only disagree that XP sucks that bad. In the end, we disagree on the delta-suckness between 2000 and XP. I find XP a lot better than 2000, you don't. ;-)

Re:To be fair

[DavidRavenMoon]

Besides, compare the OS X updates, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, to Windows SP upgrades, which are free, and are equivalent in terms of functionality upgrades. But MS gives em out for free, Apple charges full price.

Ummmm, wrong. The SP upgrades are equivalent to the 10.x.x (10.3.2, 10.3.3, 10.3.4, 10.3.5, 10.3.6...etc.) updates from Apple... which are free.

You would have to compare 10.1, 10.2, and 10.3 more to the "major" windows upgrades, like Win 95 to 98 to ME to XP... except MS releases much less upgrade with far more time in between. So because of this, Apple's upgrades seem like Service Packs to you, but they aren't. Apple's version of SPs are free.

Re:To be fair

[DavidRavenMoon]

Sure, its way better, but its no way near as efficient and easy to use as a good old fashioned task bar.

The Dock is the taskbar in OS X, and does just about everything the Windows version does, plus more. If you right click on the Dock you will see far more options for most applications than you have with the taskbar. Exposé is not a replacement for the Dock. Exposé is a window management tool, and there's nothing on Windows that matches it. We can also switch applications using Command-Tab, which brings up the real app switcher in OS X. From there you can also hide/show and quit applications. So OS X has multiple ways to switch apps. Oh, and the word you want to use is "it's" not "its."

Also as far as "good old fashioned" task bars go, remember that OS X is a descendant to NeXT/OPEN STEP, and the Dock (or Tray) comes from there, and was out before Windows 95 reared its ugly head. If you take a look at NeXT STEP you will see many things that made their way into Windows 95... like the style of the windows themselves, and the recycle bin.

The next biggest thing is Spotlight, which Microsoft has already released for free for there OS.

Here's what I want to know... why is it that so often Window's users can't spell? It's "T H I E R" not "there." Spotlight isn't the next biggest thing. Spotlight is an update to the live search feature that has been in OS X for a while now. Spotlight is also a rip-off of LaunchBar which has been around for a while. I've been using LaunchBar for the past couple of years.

And I said hackneyed to illustrate Apple/Steve Jobs refusal to admit mistakes of not incorporating a taskbar into their OS, just as they still insist on using one button mice.

OS X does have a task bar, it's called the Dock. I think it's a better task bar than the one in Windows, and I do use both Panther, W2K, and XP every day. Not only can you switch applications with the Dock, you can use it as a launcher and keep frequently used files, URLs, and folders there.

As far as mice... I have an 8 button Logitech MX-700 on my G4. You can buy any multi-button mouse you want. Right out of the box any two button scroll wheel mouse will work. Also for those people who prefer a one button mouse, and yes, they are out there, Apple includes the right click functionality by using the Control modifier key.

You haven't actually used OS X, have you?

Re:To be fair

[DavidRavenMoon]

, and you have to download applications to unhide hidden directories in Finder, or use the terminal which requires knowledge of UNIX commands.

You're doing a great job at making me laugh! :)

I can open a new Finder window, and type Command-Shift-G, or alternately go to the Go menu, and choose "Go to folder..." and then type, oh, let's say "var" and, hey, lookie there! A whole slew of hidden directories! If I want to browse, I can use something like RBrowserLite, which is a free FTP program, that also makes a nice file browser, a la, NeXT STEP.
But the thing that really cracks me up is how many years were Windows users saying "Macs suck because they don't have a command line" ... Ha!

And with that BSD under the hood, we can run all those free X11 apps....

And you can configure Windows to not show the hidden Mac files if you like.

Re:To be fair

[Khuffie]

Oh, and the word you want to use is "it's" not "its." ... why is it that so often Window's users can't spell?

Why is it that most Windows haters spell MS as M$? For fuck's sake dickwad, I'm not here to spell things properly. Ist nto lkei I wsa t4lk|ng l|k3 th|s, so get a fucking life and stop spell checking for people on Slashdot. If you want completely perfect English, go read a newspaper or a book.

And yes, I have a powerbook, so I've used OS X; it would nice if you don't assume things. And guess what? There's only one button there. So, I often have to use the annoying control modifier since I tend to not have a mouse available.

And the Dock is not a taskbar. They're completely different things. With the taskbar, without any need for extra buttons or clicks, I can immediately see every window I have open. With the Dock, all I see is a little arrow that says "dreamweaver" is open, with no idea how many windows within it. Or Safari, etc.

Oh, and if you see the Alto you'll see many things that made it into the first Mac. Big deal. Companies get ideas from each other.

Re:To be fair

[Khuffie]

Using "Go to folder..." assumes you know what you're looking for. If you're new to Mac, how does that help? And having to download programs that do things that should be default to the OS? I use cocktail to show hidden files in finder. I'm not saying Windows is perfect, but OS X isn't perfect either, as many people seem to think it is. And so what if I configure Windows to hide the Mac files? They're still there. They still don't need to be there, and there's no way of disabling that.

Re:To be fair

[Khuffie]

It's "T H I E R" not "there."

Oh, and it's "their". If you're gonna correct people, at least do it right. Oh, wait. Sorry, it should be "If you are going to ...", I forgot we're on the internet and you can't be lax on your language here. Oops!

Re:To be fair

[DavidRavenMoon]

Using "Go to folder..." assumes you know what you're looking for. If you're new to Mac, how does that help?

If you were new to the Mac you wouldn't need to be looking for hidden directories.

And having to download programs that do things that should be default to the OS? I use cocktail to show hidden files in finder.

Why do you even need to see hidden directories? Except for special occasions, you don't. And why should that be the default? It's not turned on by default on Windows. They are hidden for a reason, to keep people who don't know enough out of harms way. And if you do know enough, then you know where to find them.

And so what if I configure Windows to hide the Mac files? They're still there. They still don't need to be there, and there's no way of disabling that.

They are supposed to be hidden files, and it's Windows that is not honoring the visibility flag. And they are needed by OS X. But I agree there should be an option to stop it from writing them. And Windows also writes invisible files. I see these all the time when I get disks in that came from PCs. How do you stop Windows from wiring them to disks? Same difference.

Re:To be fair

[Khuffie]

If you were new to the Mac you wouldn't need to be looking for hidden directories

I needed to find out where PHP was installed. And where the root document of the webserver is. I'm not familiar with linux, so I didn't know it was in whatever directory Linux uses, so I needed to hunt for it. Can't hunt if files are invisible. And why should that be the default? It's not turned on by default on Windows.

I never said they need to be shown by default; there needs to be a setting where you can show them. You can find that easily in Windows, in OS X the only way I've ever been able to do it is to either run a custom Apple script, or use applications like Cocktail that do it.

Re:To be fair

[DavidRavenMoon]

Why is it that most Windows haters spell MS as M$?

I don't know... why not ask someone why spells it that way. I see Windows users spell it that way too. I bet it has something to do with their business ethic?

For fuck's sake dickwad, I'm not here to spell things properly.

No, but you're here to give your opinion on a subject in a public forum and you expect people to take you seriously, which would require people to accept (not knowing anything about you) that you have a clue about what you are talking about. How one spells is one indication of their education or intelligence, although admittedly a generalization... how someone presents themselves is important.

If you can't even communicate on an adult level why should anyone think you know what you're talking about? So sit up straight, tuck your shirt in and keep in mind the whole world might be reading what you write! I actually got a job as an advisor to a Mac book that way.

And yes, I have a powerbook, so I've used OS X; it would nice if you don't assume things.

Well you need to spend some more time with it, because you don't sound as if you know how to use it, based on a number of statements you made.

And the Dock is not a taskbar. They're completely different things. With the taskbar, without any need for extra buttons or clicks, I can immediately see every window I have open. With the Dock, all I see is a little arrow that says "dreamweaver" is open, with no idea how many windows within it. Or Safari, etc.

You are assuming that window management is a function of the Dock. That was a design of the Windows task bar, and I think a poor one at that, but not the Mac.

The problem with the Windows task bar is if you have many applications and windows open, it starts to become a crowded mess. The names are truncated, and it's not easy to tell what is what. It tries to be too many things.

Now with OS X the Dock shows you running applications, and if you happened to have minimized any windows, it shows those also. If you right click on an Applications icon you do see a list of the windows, which you can switch to from there.

Or you can just click on its icon and switch all its windows to the front, and select the one you want. Or just use Exposé.

You are trying to use OS X like Windows, and that's the wrong mindset. With Windows you need to see what windows are open, because they are contained within the parent application's main window. Macs obviously don't work that way, and you can generally see all your open windows at once.

Oh, and if you see the Alto you'll see many things that made it into the first Mac. Big deal. Companies get ideas from each other.

The people who were there would disagree with you. Jeff Raskin stated that he started the Mac project before Apple went to PARC. And he was there.

"Jobs had indeed made a visit in December, 1979 but the Mac project was proposed in the spring and was officially started in September, 1979. In other words, the project was well under way before the event that was supposed to have inspired it took place."

"To be sure, PARC's influence was broad, deep, and beneficial, but it was by no means the "single source" of "every important development." Stross's blanket claim ignores the influence of Sutherland's far earlier Sketchpad system, Englebart's prior conception of the mouse and windows, that the all-important invention of the microprocessor itself did not take place at PARC, and that the people who created the early personal computers (Apple I, SOL, Poly 88, Heath H8, IMSAI, Altair, PET, etc.) generally knew nothing of and took nothing from PARC. Many significant examples of influential software that did not derive from PARC's work, such as the systems written by Bill Gates, Gary Kildall, and Steve Wozniak also come to mind." Jeff Raskin - Holes In The Histories

Re:To be fair

[DavidRavenMoon]

Whoops... T Y P O ;)

Re:To be fair

[steeler359]

WinXP has numerous usability improvements over 2000, the look-and-feel being only one of the least signigicant ones.

While this is true, they are just that - usability improvements, there really isn't a lot between 2000 and XP that a few enterprising (open source?) programmers couldn't have come up with, maybe an overlay for explorer.exe a la Litestep could have handled these:

Date and time can be synchronized with NTP servers (2000 only synchronized with the domain controller, IIRC)

This was in fact possible on Win32 right down to Win95 (I believe), via the net time command. A bit unintuitive, sure, but surely not to geeks-like-us?

There is the switch user thing - your wife can check her e-mail while you are downloading something - Apple even copied this one (there is always a first time for everything).

True, that rotating cube thing that you get with Quartz Extreme is fairly stylish, though :)

There is remote desktop (and yes, its server side works better than VNC, at least on Windows).

However 2000 (Server) had full-blown Terminal Services, of which Remote Desktop is a pared-down shadow. This allows for virtual desktop sessions (two, out of the box), as well as someone sitting at the computer to be using it. So to paraphrase your earlier sentence, I can be downloading something on an rdesktop session from another computer (anywhere in the world, in fact), while my wife is checking her email. A Windows multi-user system? Surely not! This is the primary reason I run Win2k Server at home. And, as long as you don't want to play any games on it, a P-III 550 with just over a half-gig of RAM will do this just fine..

There is sub-pixel anti-aliasing for LCD displays

You got me there :)

*snip*

I'm not really bashing Microsoft, it's just that releasing XP (or NT 5.1 as Microsoft refer to it internally), seemed like a bit of a cynical move, and they haven't really progressed from there in the last four years, have they? In fact I don't actually run Linux natively at home, just a VM (I don't have a lot of time on my hands at home, computer-wise, due to family n stuff), but I consider myself at home in a CLI environment. ANd yes, I do realise that Linux could handle many of the things I've been talking up 2k Server about..

I'm not even bashing XP, I use it (at work), and it does have a (very) few advantages over Win2k, but I'd like to see it running as well as Win2k Server on the system I use at home

Just my tuppence, anyway

Jerry

Re:To be fair

[RMH101]

Here's what I want to know... why is it that so often Window's users can't spell? It's "T H I E R" not "there."
Someone didn't preview THEIR post, did they?

Re:To be fair

[DavidRavenMoon]

Someone didn't preview THEIR post, did they?

Someone did, but they were at work at the time, and shouldn't have been reading SlashDot anyway! So it was previewed too quickly and not adequately enough.

Plus, it was a typo, and I never professed to be a good typist. But I did know the correct word to use, which was the issue in the original post. He spelled it the right way, but it was the wrong word. So I guess it was a grammar issue and not spelling. :)

but will it have

[Inconnux]

prettier icons???

Re:Don't buy Apple

[wootest]

My whole point was that they were not the same, which is also why I linked to Gruber. :) Maybe I should have used the word "comparison" as opposed to "parallell", but I'm right with you, and I couldn't agree with Gruber more either.

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[advocate_one]

Apple wants the name(s) of those who violated the law and broke their NDA

what law??? please tell us all...

Re:Don't buy Apple

[aventius]

Thanks for the correction. I thought I read somewhere that bribes had occured. Maybe not with ThinkSecret but possibly other sites. Not really sure...

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[Alioth]

That's a real shame. I bought a 12in PowerBook last year and it's by far the best laptop I've ever used. Not to mention the best looking laptop I've ever used.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[CdBee]

not only have I seen one, I've placed one next to the 12" iBook. Every single dimension is the same - actually, compare for yourself rather than just troll-modding me:

iBook 12-inch

Powerbook 12-inch

Pay especial note to the arrangement of ports on the side of the PB12" - identical to the iBook, completely different to the other Powerbooks. Or the identical sizes, screen specs, weights. Or the fact that the skin of the 12-incher is a metal skin on top of an iBook frame (yes I did get that bit wrong due to a mental aberration) instead of being the construction of the PB 15/17

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[Absentminded-Artist]

I'm right there with you, mate. I had an unusual amount of bad luck when it comes to dead or stuck pixels. I am on my third LCD screen replacement for my G4 iMac "17. I still have one finicky pixel that is more off then on, and a weird gray discoloration in that pixel's area. My new G4 iBook also had pixel issues, so I had it replaced and still got a stuck pixel, but it's at the bottom and I can ignore it. Not ONE of my friends and associates has had dead pixel problems. Not one. Rather unfair, I think. LOL

Here's the deal, though. I pay a lot of money for these products, and expect a certain level of quality. I also expect to have the same good experience that others have had. However, I wouldn't switch back to the Wintel world for the life of me. First of all, they have quality control issues, too. And secondly, they don't offer the Apple experience. I've worked on both systems, PCs longer than Macs, and I still have a PC. I am simply more productive on my Macs (I have 3 of them).

Don't give up on Apple. It's people like us who keep returning lemons that alert Apple to quality issues in the first place. All those posters attached to your comment above thank you. I envy their experience, the no good bums.

As for topics being deleted, Apple's mods tend to do that when conversations devolve into "Me, too!" or griping. Start another thread on the same subject and hope that the post quality stays rational. I hear people complain about censoring all the time, but other similar threads stay up on the site. All you need is one pinhead in your thread to give Apple's mods the justification they need to yank the thread. Just my experience there for what it's worth.

Just remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. :)

Re:Don't buy Apple

[Leo McGarry]

I think the word you wanted to use was "contrast." I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think what you were trying to do was illustrated differences, not similarities. Right?

You're wrong, mostly.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right about JDK 1.3 on the Mac, but not 1.4.

Apple's JDK 1.3 implementation was accelerated by OpenGL; it was on a per-application basis, since it wasn't perfect and some apps blew up spectacularly. The work the Java team did though later grew into Quartz Extreme.

Unfortunately Apple's JDK 1.4 implementation was a ground-up rewrite - they switched toolkits from Carbon to Cocoa. The hardware acceleration wasn't redone for 1.4; consequently many applications suffered dramatic slowdowns when switching from 1.3 to 1.4 on the Mac.

Hopefully the Java 5.0 implementation will reenable hardware acceleration, this time as a fully-supported feature of the VM.

Re:Why does Slashdot promote OSX so much?

[damsgaard]

>>My guess is that the doctor who snatched you from your mother's womb was, likewise, not "free" (as in speech).

>>Quit being silly.

Excuse me for being "silly", but how in vermillion hells could a person be "free as in speech"?

Re:Don't buy Apple

[wootest]

I wanted to illustrate both, but mainly differences.

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[Lord Kano]

Things like whistle-blowing (which, although might really piss off the company, is NOT illegal to do).

Whistleblowing is illegal if the company has a properly crafted NDA. This court ruling makes it harder to protect whistleblowers.

If ThinkSecret had instead run a "leaked" story that MacMini's were produced by indentured 6-year-olds and were made of Soilent Green, they would NOT have been ordered to give up their sources. NDA's do not cover releasing information about violations of the law or dangers to the public. They DO cover releasing information that is a trade secret or other proprietary information that you have signed a contract to NOT give out.

What if a trade secret is that the company engages in activity that is illegal?

LK

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[the_2nd_coming]

and does that mean that you should then mod up the 50 others who have no problems at all?

Re:Hang on...

[mstone]

Has anyone else noted the irony that this whole issue is really about two NDAs?

On the one hand, we have the NDA between Apple and whoever leaked the information. People go to great lengths to explain how breaking that NDA, and/or publishing information gained from someone who did break that NDA, is Freedom Of Speech Goodness Galore.

On the other hand, we have ThinkSecret's promise of anonymity to its sources.

Now, if you think about it for five seconds, that pretty much boils down to another NDA, aka: an Agreement Not to Disclose information. But this NDA has to be protected at all costs because, again, that's Freedom Of Speech.

If "All Secrets Limit My Freedom", as some people have argued, and "Any Judge Who Enforces An NDA Is Pissing On Freedom Of Speech", as has also been argued (repeatedly), what makes ThinkSecret's decision to withold information so good?

"If ThinkSecret gave up the names of its sources, it won't be able to attract sources in the future," you say? But doesn't that pretty much boil down to the statement: "ThinkSecret uses NDAs to protect its business"?

And this is different from Apple's NDA.. how?

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[Lars T.]

Well, "Think Secret is probably going to have to shut down or pay millions or some other onerous thing because Ciarelli broke the law" is hardly the same as "Apple is asking ThinkSecret to shut down, pay millions, or some other onerous thing".

Re:Hang on...

[ratsnapple tea]

Dude, you added me to your foes list for debating you in this thread? It's no matter to me, but if you're going to go to the trouble of foe-ing me, perhaps you could at least have the courtesy to respond to the (sincere) question I asked here.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[the_2nd_coming]

no different than my HP notebook that I bought 2 years ago that went in for service 5 times under warranty and 2 times out of warranty but under the extended care I bought. then it finally dies on me for no reason 3 weeks out of coverage.

the entire time I had it, the stupid track pad was erratic.

You don't need numbers

[Anonymous Coward]

Companies don't need to prove their information is a trade secret.

Here's a stretch of an analogy. I work for a defense contractor. We were bidding on a project that had a very aggressive schedule. The entire schedule was a trade secret, even the general terms of how long it was. Why? If a competitor found out, they would know our assessment of how long we think it takes us to build such a product. This gives them knowledge and advantage in the marketplace.

Point #1: Should our company have to PROVE that this information is economically valuable?

Point #2: Any competitor can know the state of Tiger at the time of the leak, and knowing the release date, they now know how long it takes Apple to polish up a product for release. The competitors can assess their "polishing" skills against Apple's, and that does give them information Apple would rather they not have.

Mail.app does this already

[just someone]

10.3 mail.app looks for new mail in the various directories for my imap account (where mail is forwarded by procmail).

If you need full synchronization, then set it in the account preferences page, aka synchronize automatically.

As for thunderbird, this is done on a per-directory basis.

Re:Mail.app does this already

[generic-man]

It does? I have procmail set up to filter mail into dozens of mailboxes, and Mail.app (in OSX 10.3.8) only ever alerts me of new mail when a message hits my Inbox. It checks for mail in other folders when I start up (that's what "synchronize automatically" does) and when I right-click a folder and choose "Synchronize 'Account.'" When it does a synchronization, there's no way for me to tell that I have new mail without scrolling through the complete folder list. It's so bad, I need a third-party utility just to tell me when I have new messages.

Thunderbird, on the other hand, insists that I have hundreds of new messages (according to the icon badge) every time I start it up. It also routinely flashes the "new mail alert" when I have no new mail. Some of the bugs concerning Mozilla Mail's new mail behavior are years old, and Mozilla developers don't care. Therefore, I don't care either.

Anyone know if...

[kiddailey]

... there will be a rebate for it? ;)

Re:DVD only?

[NoData]

Thanks, you're right. Useful link.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[BigZaphod]

I have a new PB 1.67Ghz 15". No dead pixels here. My old 15" 1Ghz tibook had one, but it was in the menu bar so most of the time I couldn't even see it. My trackpad seems fine, too, although it has a strange feel compared to the old book. The scrolling feature is very handy. And I love the backlit keyboard and auto-dimming.

The wobble thing, though, I understand. Mine does that. I don't really like it, but I'm not sure it bothers me enough to send it in and be without it for so long. I always figured maybe it was just my table or something. It is somewhat concerning to note that this is apparently a common problem. It doesn't seem to affect anything else, though. I frequently use the laptop on... my lap, so I don't notice it very often.

I guess if I was ultra-picky I might be upset about quality issues too, since the 2 powerbooks I have owned have both had 1 problem each (dead pixel in old one, wobble in new one). However, from my point of view, the quality on Apple stuff is already so far superior to basically everything else that these small problems hardly seem like an issue to me.

Oh wait! Let me help you.

[Paradox]

It seems you've got a case of the stupids. So let me help you by doing your research for you. This is a summary from daveschroders comment. To quote his quoting:

[The information about Apple's unreleased products] is stolen property, just as any physical item, such as a laptop computer containing the same information on its hard drive [or not] would be. The bottom line is there is no exception or exemption in either the [Uniform Trade Secrets Act] or the Penal Code for journalists--however defined--or anyone else.

[...]

The public has had, and continues to have, a profound interest in gossip about Apple. Therefore, it is not surprising that hundreds of thousands of 'hits' on a Web site about Apple have and will happen. But an interested public is not the same as the public interest."

There. See?

The rules are simple. You can disclose Trade Secrets when they serve the public interest. But you can't disclose Trade Secrets because the public is interested. There is some leeway in here, but that's good.

Didn't I tell you and all your kind to stay in your hole? Hole. Now. Go. Don't speak, just go.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[xocp]

Its unfortunate that there aren't non-Apple hardware platforms to choose from. The competition could be a good thing (especially in the case of the parent post). Also, it would allow a broader range of acceptance for their operating systems (which I would love to run on my x86 hardware).

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because there's no signed contracts.

Re:Hang on...

[Lars T.]

Bullshit. The California Uniform Trade Secrets Act defines

(d) "Trade secret" means information, including a formula, pattern, compilation, program, device, method, technique, or process, that:

(1) Derives independent economic value, actual or potential, from not being generally known to the public or to other persons who can obtain economic value from its disclosure or use; and

(2) Is the subject of efforts that are reasonable under the circumstances to maintain its secrecy.

No time limit, certainly not "indefinitely".

Re:Who cares?

[MatthewRothenberg]

>.So, here, add 1 to your count people "quantitative evidence".

Both you and your friend based your purchase decisions on Apple's own announcements. Unless you're proposing Apple sue itself for spoiling its own surprise, I'm afraid I can't add your one unit unsold to the tally of Mac sales lost to unauthorized pre-announcements! :-)

m.

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[Secret Agent 99]

Giving up names would be almost as bad for Think Secret as paying a lot of money. If it happens, their inside sources will disappear or go silent and they'll be forced to cobble together their predictions based on research into hard-to-find public information and on-the-record comments. In other words, they'll have to resort to...journalism!

Does this make any sense for small iBooks?

[Nice2Cats]

After reading about all the nice, cool features of "Tiger" that are supposed to be run in video RAM, I am wondering if upgrading will even make sense for those of us who only have 32 MByte of such RAM in our iBooks. Already, Exposé noticably jerks with an external monitor. Or do I want to wait until I can get a better portable, too?

Re:Does this make any sense for small iBooks?

[FuzzzyLogik]

You'll still get a lot of functionality out of it. dashboard, spotlight, automator, etc. some of the eye candy might not be so hot. but you'll still get the funtionality.

you also need to know what video card you have, the ATI 9200 is not supported by coreimage or corevideo. as such, they will be scaled down and run in the CPU rather than the graphics chip. it'll still function though.

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[Leo McGarry]

You're right. One is a statement of pure fact while the other is a statement of opinion. Let's throw you a parade.

Re:Hang on...

[rsborg]

GP: Because free speach is the very basis of democracy and the rule of law?

Actually, no. While we hold those rights very high in the United States, the basis of democracy and capitalism is property rights.

Dude, you are getting your political and economics mixed up. Democracy != Capitalism. Many countries in Europe are, for example, Socialist Democracies. You are correct in saying that property rights form the fundamental basis for capitalism, but not for democracy.

On the other hand, the GP poster isn't correct either. Free Speech is NOT the "very basis" of the rule of law, and only part of the basis of democracy.

Re:DVD only?

[the_2nd_coming]

duh... and the educational models get their hard drives imaged!!!

April 1st

[Tumbleweed]

It doesn't matter, as it'll be a good day no matter what. Even if 10.4 isn't out then, Sin City will be!

Re:Why does Slashdot promote OSX so much?

[Tsugumi]

My guess is that the doctor who snatched you from your mother's womb was, likewise, not "free" (as in speech).

Well, you were making a good point up till here. In my country, doctors are free (as in beer) to the person requiring treatment through taxation. More importantly, medical knowledge *is* free (as in speech). Can you imagine a situation where it wasn't?? Where a doctor would hold on to his/her knowledge to give themselves a competitive advantage? Not only would patients suffer, through the concentration of this knowledge, but the doctor would suffer as his/her ideas would not advance through the contribution of their peers.

Scientific knowledge needs to be free.

Re:Hang on...

[sagei]

Dude, you are getting your political and economics mixed up. Democracy != Capitalism. Many countries in Europe are, for example, Socialist Democracies. You are correct in saying that property rights form the fundamental basis for capitalism, but not for democracy.

Socialist Democracies value property rights, as does even communism. They just eschew property as an institution. Don't think I put any particular brand of property rights on the phrase "property rights."

Anyhow, I do agree that property rights form a much greater foundation to capitalism than democracy. I should of clarified, but I was impassioned to point out that free speech really isn't the basis of democracy whatsoever.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[kongjie]

Hey, you have my sympathies, but this is an off-topic hijack...which makes me think that your post in Apple Discussions may have been the same.

RE: Apple forcing you to pay for software updates

[King_TJ]

Yeah, I find this annoying sometimes too - but I can understand one big reason they'd be motivated to do it.

It has to be a big booster of new hardware sales for them. Look at how often you see comments like "I'm *waiting* to purchase a new for ...." It's not just in the Slashdot story heading... It's all over the place on any Mac fan site.

The whole point is, yeah, the OS and software updates aren't always worth the asking price - but that artificially high barrier to entry makes Mac owners feel better about the idea of upgrading systems or buying another new one. (Hey, I'm guilty of it too. I wanted iLife '05 but didn't really want to pay for it, after I just paid for iLife '04 last year. The fact that iLife '05 came bundled with every new Mac Mini, though, pushed me over the edge to buy one of 'em. You figure, $499 for a Mini minus a discount coupon I already had for an Apple store purchase - and then you factor in the price of iLife '05..... Starts to look pretty reasonable.)

Since generally, Macs have respectable resale value (assuming they're not TOO old), I think Apple is trying hard to get more folks to consider ebaying that 2-3 year old laptop or iMac and grabbing a shiny new model. (Hey, free Tiger with it!)

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[jcarreiro]

Just wanted to second the other responses to this post (3rd? 4th?) -- I purchased a 15" PB a month ago, and it's running great. No dead pixels, trackpad scrolling works great, backlit keyboard looks awesome. I added an extra 256MB of RAM after I got (be careful with those little screws, I almost stripped one) and it runs OS X fast!

I get about 3.5 hours of battery life when running a typical workload (e-mail, web browsing, other stuff). Haven't tried doing something like DVD playback off the battery yet.

The only issue I have (and I understand other people have this problem) is that under certain lighting conditions, the auto-dimmer gets a bit to aggressive, resulting in it changing the lighting level of the display too frequently. Usually it's when there's a directional light source and I'm accidentally shading the sensor with my hand as I type (for example, in my office, the window is to my right, and I shade the sensor with my left hand on the keyboard as I type). It's not actually I big problem, since I just turn off auto-dimming when I notice it happening.

Anyway, sorry you had such a bad experience with your PB. Four of my friends recently purchased PowerBooks and I haven't heard of anyone having the problems that you did! It certainly would have turned me off of Apple if it had happened to me!

Will it include the new iPhoto?

[Avumede]

My iPhoto is getting mighty slow, and I don't particularly want to spend the $50 to get iLife and upgrade it to the latest version (supposedly much faster).

I wonder if Tiger will have the latest version included. Anyone know, or care to guess?

Re:Will it include the new iPhoto?

[dmarcoot]

yes, i have a freind who boughta powerbook last month and the new iLife apps are already pre-installed

Re:Will it include the new iPhoto?

[mmeister]

New computers have the latest iLife installed, but Tiger will not come with iLife '05 (unless you're buying it with a new computer).

Re:Will it include the new iPhoto?

[dmarcoot]

when i bought 10.3, it came with the ilife apps. i seriously doubt apple is going tgo ship a os update without itunes, iphoto, imovie or idvd, unless apple has said the contrary.

Re:Will it include the new iPhoto?

[mbaciarello]

Then you need to write and tell Apple market monkeys about your concern. When not purchased with a computer, OS X 10.3 has shipped without any iLife apps. You may check on the Apple Store. Now, it might change with Tiger but I don't really see any indication of this.

Also note that it would be a significant discount -- i.e., too good to be true: OS X is $129.00 (single license), whereas iLife '05 is $79.00.

Re:Will it include the new iPhoto?

[mbaciarello]

In case you were still reading this:

Did you find any indication that iPhoto '05 is any faster? My iPhoto is really slow, too, but after a quick round of reviews I couldn't find any comment about improved performance. What's worse, at least one of them pointed out increased sluggishness...

I mean, not even David Pogue celebrated speed in iPhoto '05... Although he does go as far as to say it only bogs down at 20,000 photos in the library... Pfeh!

Re:Will it include the new iPhoto?

[mehgul]

Interesting question, as with 10.3, you get iPhoto 2, iMovie 3 (not totally sure it's this version though) and iTunes, but not the latest version of the iLife apps. So one might wonder if they'll still ship iPhoto 2 with Tiger, as that would spoil the experience a bit. However, I doubt very much that you'll get GarageBand or iDVD with Tiger, as those were never free in the past.

Re:Why does Slashdot promote OSX so much?

[matt_maggard]

>>My guess is that the doctor who snatched you from your mother's womb was, likewise, not "free" (as in speech).

I think he means that a doctor has the doctor/patient privilege thing. Meaning that he does not have a right to announce to the world that you have cancer.

That's my take anyway.

Re:Hang on...

[xbytor]

Photoshop Elements is Adobe's consumer oriented image editor. And it is very good at being just that since it is essentially a version of PS with much of the hardcore image tech removed or made more user-friendly.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[adpowers]

My 12" which was bought in August didn't show its problems for a few months. Then I noticed a white splotch on the screen (different color then the rest, a huge area) and the screen started squeaking. I'm taking mine to the Apple Store in a few days, once school is over and I no longer need it every day (and will have access to other computers).

Re:DVD only?

[kalidasa]

I have a Rev A white iBook. 500 Mhz. They came with CDROM, DVD, or Combo drive.

Re:Hang on...

[throughthewire]

You and I seem to have a different impression of what a fishing expedition is.

In any case, I am just as bemused by the recent increase in articles and posts on Slashdot that appear to be anti-privacy, as the original poster seems to be about what he perceives as posts and articles which are anti-free speech.

I note with disappointment that his post has been rated "Troll" now. I disagree with his assertion, but his post certainly wasn't a troll. Mildly ironic, considering the 'free speech' angle.

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[MatthewRothenberg]

>>In other words, they'll have to resort to...journalism!

Agent: Since when does "journalism" exclude inside sources?

Public info and on-the-record comments are important, but they're not exclusive in my book.

m.

Dream On...

[localman]

Wouldn't it be cool if Apple released the last dot version as a free upgrade for all users when they release a new dot version? Anyone who really wants the latest OSX (like me) will buy it pretty much immediately. I'll have 10.4 as soon as it's available. If they then put 10.3 as a free upgrade for all 10 users, they and their third party developers would only ever have to officially support two versions of the OS. And it would generate huge good will.

Ah well, not gonna happen.

Cheers.

Re:Dream On...

[aristotle-dude]

10.4 is the release "name". 8.0 is the kernel version. Panther's kernel version is going to end at 7.9 when the last free upgrade (10.3.9) comes out.

You complain about paying for a new kernel and framework version? What about MSFT charging for a .1 upgrade of their NT kernel (Win2k 5.0 to XP 5.1)?

Re:Dream On...

[localman]

Who are you talking to? I'm not complaining about anything. I happily pay for every OSX release. Read my post again if you're confused.

Cheers.

Re:DVD only?

[drinkypoo]

1> is a good point. 2> and 3> won't help people who don't have a DVD-ROM, because they probably can't afford a second mac or a firewire drive, either.

How is this offtopic?

[StarKruzr]

The topic is Mac OS X. Since Apple's OS and hardware are interlinked, this is clearly on-topic.

That said, I want a 12". Small, powerful, portable preconfigured UNIX with a reasonable price tag.

I wonder, however, whether Tiger will be faster or slower overall than 10.3 on the same hardware.

Re:How is this offtopic?

[kaiwai]

Because it has no direct correlation to the story at hand.

It would be like a story about Windows then asking a question, like, "I wonder which colour tie Bill Gates likes to wear with his pin striped suit?"

Re:How is this offtopic?

[whee]

What story are you reading?

Silly Burrito writes "Think Secret is reporting that Tiger will be out in April with an event on April 1st and it should be out in stores by April 15th. If this is true, I can finally get both the Mini and a new Powerbook, as I've been waiting for Tiger to be released before I do so. Let's just hope that this isn't a bad April Fools Joke!

A inquiry directly related to the submission is quite on-topic.

Re:How is this offtopic?

[kaiwai]

Thats a comment the editor added to the story - it has NO direct relationship with the core message; the core message is "rumour has it that Tiger will be released on April 15th". Thats what *SHOULD* be getting discussed, not the little tit bit added by the author.

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[Secret Agent 99]

Since when does "journalism" exclude inside sources?

When it relies exclusively on them.

This is a formal statement

[Jesus_666]

10.2 users can expect to receive security patches until next wednesday. Yes, we know that Tiger won't be out until then, but you asked for it.

Regards,
Apple

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[Secret Agent 99]

Sorry, lazy wording. I mean "it's not journalism anymore if it relies exclusively on anonymous sources." I might add that in the case of Think Secret, we have to rate them pretty poor journalists if we care about accuracy and accountability (they don't admit mistakes, they explain them away).

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[mrklin]

"Apple says that Ciarelli offered anonymity in exchange for trade secrets."

What, you don't think those giving Nick trade scerets demanded anonymity whether or not it was offered by Nick?

Try Fully Connecting Aiport Antenna

[MisterSquid]

The only "problem" is the Airport Extreme card still has poor reception, at least compared to my old white iBook G3.

The iBooks get the best reception of all Macintosh models. At least this was the case when I got my 15" 1.25 GHz Powerbook about 1.5 years ago. So, you probably won't see the kind of reception on your Powerbook as you do on your iBook.

That said, some Powerbooks, especially the 12" models, have reception issues (like getting 2 bars when fewer than 10 feet from the WiFi node, Airport or generic) and the way to improve it is to open up your PB and to make sure the connector to the Airport card is fully seated.

It seems sort of silly, but for a while many Powerbooks were coming out the factory with their Airport cards not fully connected to the Airport antenna. Check yours just to make sure.

The question is...

[101percent]

The question is whether tiger will run on my G3 ibook from 2001, or has Apple released the hardware requirements yet?

Re:Why does Slashdot promote OSX so much?

[Anonymous Coward]

Scientific knowledge needs to be free.

Tell that to all the journals that have several hundred dollar subscriptions and the researchers who don't publish their crystal structures because they want to analyze first. There's so much scientific information out there longing to be free... let's hope that open source rubs off on science.

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[drexeljoe]

I know I can't be the first one to think about this... but do you think this may be a little April Fool's Joke Apple is playing on ThinkSecret. With all the legal stuff going on between them, wouldn't a nice countermeasure be to start to tack away at ThinkSecret's credibility with false, high profile rumors? Whaddya think?

Re:Hang on...

[istewart]

Actually, no. The "rule of law" is based on guns. Lots of guns.

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[Leo McGarry]

Not the point. The Think Secret Web site specifically promises anonymity to those who divulge Apple trade secrets. That's an offer before the fact, which is inducement.

Re:Lawsuits over then?

[MatthewRothenberg]

A. In my experience, Apple has never demonstrated that well-developed a sense of humor.

B. Apple has on occasion seeded bogus information to catch leaks, but I don't believe TS has fallen for such a gambit to date.

m.

Re:DVD only?

[justforaday]

While you're at it, you may as well mention how to boot one machine off the hard drive in another...

After one machine is booted in target disk mode, connect the firewire cable and restart the other machine while holding down the F key. Handy way of using your crappy iBook's home directory in a computer lab that has nice G4s or G5s.

Re:Don't buy Apple

[teamhasnoi]

Well, Mr. Knowledge, where exactly is the line? And who (other than you) gets to decide what makes a journalist?

I have been under the impression that if you wanted to be a baker, a musician, a construction worker, or a railroad baron, you granted yourself that title, and there you were. It doesn't make you good or qualified, but there certainly are enough poor, unqualified people doing those jobs at present.

Just look at the 'Slashdot Editors'. Are they *really* editors? Are they good? Can they call themselves editors? So back it up...where's the line? You work at a newspaper? So, the Salon guys aren't journalists? You need a circulation of 10,000? So the local news reporter isn't? Are people allowed to label themselves?

Meh. Why your comment is modded insightful, I can't figure.

Another release before Longhorn

[bonch]

Interestingly, the release would be early enough for Apple to actually push out a whole new release before Longhorn next year. 10.5 would be a very interesting release because it would be Apple's "official" reaction to Longhorn. Imagine two whole OS X releases in the time Longhorn has sat in an alpha state. What is Microsoft doing all this time?

Re:Another release before Longhorn

[SA Stevens]

What is Microsoft doing all this time?

Counting their money.

Oh! And ignoring Apple.

I can't believe this

[mosb1000]

Not that I mind, but I think Slashdot has officially become a mac-rumor site. They've posted 2 rumors in as many days. Couldn't they at least put them on a mac-rumors page so they don't show up on the main page?

Can a Mini handle Tiger's graphics?

[doormat]

Will that Radeon 9200 32MB video be able to handle the GPU-intense graphics of OSX 10.4. I'm hoping some sites will take a look at that question when tiger is available.

Re:Can a Mini handle Tiger's graphics?

[thatguywhoiam]

Will that Radeon 9200 32MB video be able to handle the GPU-intense graphics of OSX 10.4. I'm hoping some sites will take a look at that question when tiger is available.

Nope. Core Image basically requires a card that supports pixel shading.
(The VRAM is not the issue, but practically speaking it means 64 MB cards and greater).

Some good info here: AnandTech

Re:Can a Mini handle Tiger's graphics?

[thatguywhoiam]

will you be able to disble the advanced features to lighten the load on the CPU? or am I going to have to load linux on mac mini?

Yes, in fact it auto-disables itself. If you don't have the extra GPU, it all gets rendered by the CPU, which just skips frames when it is short on cycles. So you are never unable to do something, it just looks less fancy.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[SA Stevens]

That's a real shame.

Uh, what's with the sarcasm? Sometimes Apple customers start to seem a little like scientologists.

Re:Why does Slashdot promote OSX so much?

[wootest]

Fluxbox is kickass. I'm not debating that for a second. But I'm wondering if making stuff customizable doesn't scare people away, too? Windows and OS X can both host external window managers, both have built-in skins (if you can call the OS X choice of Aqua and Graphite a skin, that is; I agree that this is a bit weak) and both have extra programs that can help you skin the existing interface. The options are there for the people who do need or want it, and if Apple ends up aping those tools, the odds are high we'll have another Dashboard-Konfabulator thing on our hands.

Even if OS X was more customizable than Windows out of the box, I don't think it'll make up the biggest inherent flaw - the people coming from Windows, OS 9 and Linux to take a peek at OS X for the first time all feel a bit lost. I think that's what scares people off primary. (This is true for any OS, of course. I've seen Windows aficionados struggle with the red hat menu in Fedora.)

I don't think more than half of the people using computers have an interest in customizing anything - getting to know the computer and the interface makes a good challenge for a sizable chunk of computer users new to any OS. As Apple since at least the iMac has partially profiled themselves as selling computers to those who didn't use to have any at all (which they did back in '84, too, of course), they *proportionally* receive more of those people than others, and I think it affects the general design of their products too.

Better watch his a$$..

[jpellino]

He's using very specific code names in his hardware prediction on the front page.
Apple has been known to use several code names for the same piece of hardware, giving different names to different labs, testers, etc.
One advantage of such a strategy is that if anything leaks, you can narrow down the source.
I can imagine the same can be done with dates.
This kid HAS figured out that if he loses the original case, they'll be back with both barrels on every subsequent leak, right?

Re:DVD only?

[NoodleSlayer]

No, it will not be DVD only.

Re:You missed the point

[martinX]

And if the release date is false?

Then we relegate Think Secret to the same pile as we do MacOS Rumors. Remember when they were the site - then it turned out they were just making stuff up...

Representative government.

[David Rolfe]

You said: Then you wish to leave to the government and the courts to decide what is in the public interest? Should not the public decide both in what they were interested and what was in their public interest? Suddenly, we have the judge deciding in what we should be interested and what will effect our public will?

Judges are actors of the public will. That's why they are installed as part of a democratic process. Pay more attention the next time you are at the ballot box if you don't like what your judges are doing.

Anyhow, there's a difference between "the public interest" and "in the public's interest". Not to get all semantic on you. It's in the public's interest to know if one of the Secret 11 Herbs and Spices is cyanide. That's why whistle-blowers get protections. The Apple-NDA-Breakers are not whistle-blowers. They are not saving the public from poison or exposing government corruption or accounting fraud.

Re:Don't buy Apple

[geekee]

" oh please. some dude with a blog spouting off what his cat did today does not a journalist make...."

Apparently, ThinkSecret's news important enough for /. to post, and was important enough for you to bother to read the comments off the /. post of their news. Otherwise, your comment wouldn't be here.

TigerPostFacto

[argent]

If it won't run on your clamshell G3, you can bet Ryan Rempel will come up with a fix... after all, he just managed to get Jaguar running on Powermac 7x00s using the pre-G3 604e CPU cards.

Re:Mr Rothenberg didn't mention. . .

[MatthewRothenberg]

Dear Mr./Ms. Coward: Perhaps it's my own hubris to assume that I'm not unknown to readers who follow the Mac market -- and who know that I've made no secret of my work with Nick Ciarelli.

In point of fact, I've written a couple of essays that discuss my work with Nick over the years -- it's hardly a fact I've tried to conceal.

Quite the contrary: I'm proud to "disclose" this relationship. I wish that at age 19, I'd had half Nick's savvy, and I'm confident he'll do great things with his career.

And FTR (in the interest of disclosure), I'm not involved in this suit in any way, shape or form, although I stand ready to testify to Nick's methods and accuracy.

m.

Re: Apple forcing you to pay for software updates

[EddWo]

Do Apple let you install the Mac Mini bundled version of iLife on your other Macs? If not then you still need to purchase is seperately to run it on anything other than the Mac Mini, I find my 1Ghz Powerbook is barely fast enough for running Garageband 2 so I wouldn't think the Mini would be much better.

DAs are back!

[corblix]

Take a look at the dashboard preview.

Back in '84 Apple gave us applications and desk accessories. Then in '90 System 7 came along, and desk accessories were now the same as applications. You could put anything you want into the apple menu.

Now it's 2005, and desk accessories are back. Only they're called "widgets".

(Prediction: Around 2010 some whiz kid in a back room at Apple will think, "Hey! We could let any old app be a widget ....")

Re:Mr Rothenberg didn't mention. . .

[MatthewRothenberg]

>>Your link says you're "ethically opposed to 'outing'." Why is that? Are secrets necessary to your work? Why does the press, did you, conspire to keep secrets that are in the public interest? It's not like naming him was like outing a CIA agent or anything. Double standards?

Nick's a private individual, not a public company. He chose to operate under a pen name; I respected his choice. You might not choose to see the distinction -- but that's your choice.

m.

Figures.

[Indiana Joe]

I just ordered a new Mac to replace my aging clone. I'll probably be just outside the window where I can upgrade for free.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[j.bellone]

Absolutely.

But you shouldn't not mod someone up because they are the minority in the group. He had a legitimate problem; as did the other few people - you need to take both in, just because the majority of systems work fine (and they should!) doesn't mean the few problems should be overlooked. Even if the company is Apple.

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[Mistah Blue]

Sorry to hear this. I've had my loaded 15" PB for two weeks now (1.67GHz w/ 128MB video, 100GB HD and 2GB RAM). No problems here. I love it! My question is: will I have to fork out for Tiger, or will I get an upgrade credit of some sort.

Re:Hang on...

[rs79]

" I was around when only trolls might have defended the notion of a large company using trade secret law to trump the free speech rights of independent journalists"

Perhaps people have grown up and deciced respecting the law is a good thing?

release coincides with Tiger books

[bmeteor]

As noted in the MacRumors Forums, the 1st coincides with the release of these two tiger books

The missing Manual: tiger ed.

O'Reilly's learning Unix for Tiger

based on this, I'd be bullish on it being announced on the 1st.

Re:Fanboi justification for Apple's poor behavior

[zieroh]

Should not the public decide both in what they were interested and what was in their public interest?

Let me ask a question, then: would it be okay for someone, say a journalist even, to publish your personal information (DOB, SSN, home address, bank account number) to the internet? I mean, leaving out the obvious incompetence displayed recently by the likes of ChoicePoint, would it be legitimate for someone to deliberately publish this information?

The obvious answer is "No". Why? Because that information being made public would cause you harm. Financial harm, most likely, but harm nonetheless.

The information at the heart of this case is no different to Apple than your SSN is to you. By publishing what Apple believes to be leaked information, Apple's plans were revealed to their competitors. This is why the concept of "Trade Secrets" exists -- not so much to keep consumers in the dark but to keep competitors off balance when a new product/invention/concept is being developed. A trade secret misappropriated by someone who signed an NDA is a violation of the law (contract law, I assume, but IANAL) and no individual, journalist or otherwise, has a right to divulge that information to the public when the information was gained illegally. The right to free speech is not absolute -- you should know this from your 6th grade civics class.

You can be as smug as you want by belittling the importance of the trade secret that was leaked, but that doesn't change the fact that Apple is, just like any other corporation or person, entitled to protection under the law. If you don't like the law, work to change it.

And stop whining. Please.

Re:Just a thought

[rs79]

" Maybe you should get a girlfriend instead. Wouldn't that be something !

When's the release date?"

With or without time off for good behaviour?

Slashdot confirms it!

[mrchaotica]

Apple is a huge, drawn out April Fools gag!

[just kidding]

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[calstraycat]

Nothing like an indignant anonymous coward with axe to grind. Oh yeah, my experience with computer quality issues so "much less meaningful" than yours. Talk about presumptuous and arrogant. Get a grip, man. If you're going launch into a rant based on a bunch of assumptions you've cooked up in your mind about my experience with computer quality issues then at least have the balls to sign-in first.

I post a four sentence rebuttal and it's "people like you" blah, blah, blah. People like me? What the hell do you know about me from the those four sentences?

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[Alioth]

What sarcasm? There was none meant. I was expressing that it's genuinely a real shame if the quality of the excellent PowerBook has gone to the pits. Or don't you agree?

Re:Warning: The latest Powerbooks have issues

[vaporland]

i bought a powerbook 12" that was supposed to have a superdrive, it only had a combo drive, but i did not know this until i had it a while, now they say i have to send it back, so i have to stash all my files somewhere and wait for the powerbook to be returned, what a drag!

4.6 GB ...

[giaguara]

Built in firewire is the key, but 2 GB only? I seem to get 4.6 GB with the standard installation ... even with language packs removed, it is still past 3 GB ... and not even containing iLife.

Say What?

[Paradox]

I use WinXP every day at work, and every time I try to do anything more than basic web browsing or exceed-ing into our linux dev boxen, I find the taskbar painfil to use.

The Dock is such a better piece of UI it's not even funny. Tog's angsty rants be damned. The dock is actually usable, clean, and almost never confusing. This is in sharp contrast to the hideous nightmare of the XP taskbar. You never know how XP is going to organize your tasks next. Will it collapse? Will it move things? Will it get angry if I add another mini-launcher icon? Are there any mini-launcher icons obscured because that little pane doesn't autoresize when I add things?

And the world of pain you can experience by making that thing taller? Oh god. The horrors. And I pray that you're prepared to do a lot of guesswork, because thosebars are NEVER long enough to give you any real data. And what happens when you use an app supporting MDI? Suddenly, your cluttered taskbar has no clue what's going on, so it isn't even like the taskbar is smarter than the dock.

The Dock may not be what you expect it to be, but when used for what it's designed for, it's a very useful tool.

If you do require window-specific switching, try using Witch.

Sense of Humor

[MDMurphy]

I'd have to say that Apple has demontrated a sense of humor.

When Carl Sagan objected to an *internal* product codename of "Carl Sagan", they renamed it "BHA" ( short for Butt Head Astronomer)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_sagan/

Re: Yey... "PointCast" is back

[BlackPanties]

My, did I love the push-news mini-epoch/moment in the mid 90's when POINTCAST distributed a free screen saver, which pushed headlines/updates/sports scores to my screen.

It's finally back... in the form of Tiger/RSS. Well, it took ten years... but hey, I'm happy.
yippie ki yi yey varmits.

~

Think Secret Strategy

[Corpus_Callosum]

If I were think secret, I would make a whole bunch of claims that turn out to be false, on purpose. After all, it would be in their best interest to look like they don't know the difference between rumors and inside information right about now...

Re:Hang on...

[Zhe Mappel]

Why should free speech trump the rights of an individual or a company to use a contract to keep information private?

Because expression is the foundation of a free society. It is more important to keep the society free than to foster commercial interests. The wealth of the owners is not synonymous with, and frequently is inimical to, the good of the many.

Argh

[RMH101]

Microsoft do not make modems.
Modem makers make modems.
Why would Microsoft write a driver for another manufacturer's product?

Re:Argh

[DavidRavenMoon]

Why would Microsoft write a driver for another manufacturer's product?

It wasn't the modem driver that was the problem. She had the disk that came with the 3Com modem.

The problem was she needed the PC Card Services for Windows (or what ever it was called) to get the PC card slot to work. This was a Microsoft driver for Win 3.11, that used to be on their web site, but they removed all Win 3.11 downloads. This was outlined in the modem's manual, which also listed the URL.

So she had to install the modem drivers every time she wanted to get online! Once she shut down she lost use of the modem.

Re:Hang on...

[mstone]

In response to the first post above, contracts don't have to be written and signed. Dig through _West's Business Law_ for some discussion and precedent. The real proof is in the behavior of the people who made the agreement. If two parties act like they signed a contract, the courts will generally rule that a contract exists.

In response to the post directly above, a contract can be illegal and still exist. The court will refuse to enforce an illegal contract, and will often tell people to give back what they took under the terms of an illegal contract, but that doesn't stop the contract from existing. Yes, that's a fiddly distinction, but we are talking about law, here.

Besides, I agree that the sources did something illegal, that the ThinkSecret NDA doesn't provide a legal excuse to keep those identities secret, and that the judge made the correct ruling. But I've seen too many people denouncing Apple, the judge, the law, and society in general because they think NDAs shouldn't exist, all the while demanding that ThinkSecret's NDA be judged legal and enforcable.