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Stallman Unimpressed by Nokia Patent Pledge
Joe Barr writes "NewsForge is running a commentary by Richard Stallman on the recent PR blitz by Nokia concerning their promise not to enforce patent claims against the Linux kernel project. Stallman's take? "In effect, Nokia is lobbying the European Union to give Nokia and many others a new kind of weapon to shoot at software authors and users with--and telling the legislators, 'Don't worry, it's safe to let private armies carry these guns, because we promise that our gunmen won't shoot anyone in that building.'""
First Post, you useless bastards.
This is a haiku, yes? Or is it really? I do not know, do you?
And that sick bastard enjoys it. That is all.
It's because they're a bunch of dirty niglets.
In soviet russia you infringe patents!
Some details at GROKLAW http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200505251 80125237 1 04251332&mode=print
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050530
...and Hitler promised that he would stop after annexing the sudetenland. Appeasment and promises never work. I hope the EU doesn't give in. We've seen what happens when they (europeans) do. (Of course, we aren't talking about World War 3 here, but still, we've seen what happens)
I have this really funny quote that I like to put here. Unfortunately, there's this really annoying thing called a char
Stallman is pissed off at somebody.
So what the hell else is new? Stallman is always pissed off. Always.
Imagine such a thing. I think highly of the man, and admire his dedication, but when did we ever hear of Stallman being pleased.
This is NOT a signature.
When did RMS become such a cynic?
Linux is severely hindered in making progress due to the influence of this communist sympathiser. He attacks all corporations who don't buy into his insane vision of software and is it any wonder SO MANY companies want nothing to do with it?
I am SO glad Apple is around and OS X is here now. It is more stable, more secure, faster and by far more advanced than Linux is or ever will be. OS X is the future of operating systems today, and that is in no small part to the lack of "free software" influence from the likes of zealots like Richard Stallman.
1) Try to make software patents valid everywhere
2) File some patents
3) Allow open source software to use your patents
4) ???
So, if patents are a "good thing" that encourages innovation, why is nokia allowing open source (ie: anyone) to use them for free? As far as I can see, they're contradicting themselves
Stallman suffers from acute failure of analogical reasoning. A patent has nothing to do with a weapon and comparing one to the other is either dishonest, stupid or insane. From his past behaviour, I'd wager Stallman is the last one.
OMGWTF!!!!!
Did only take 6 minutes to godwin this Topic.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Previously unenforced laws suddenly being enforced has historically led to massive resentment and revolution. Some of the taxation that was collected prior to the american war for independence had been on the books for some time. Imagine what would happen in the us if police routinely started pulling people over for speeding only a few miles over the speedlimit. (provided that they, of course, removed the uncertainty from the guestimation of the speed of trave)l.
On the other hand, reminds me a bit of the 'patriot' act. Oooh, don't worry, we'll only use it for the terrorists (which we now include people who disagree with the president).
Lack of enforcement is a tricky tricky thing. I've always thought that regulations should represent how things work, not the way we wish they worked. Saves this kind of doublespeak from occurring.
Look, on one hand the Linux community idolizes it's "stars" like Linus and Stallman. On the other hand, it rails against the cult of status and elite power in the hands of the few (eg. Bill Gates).
So which is it, Linux fans? Stop sitting on the fence and cast your lot.
A Nokia executive has publicly stated, "Our failure to impress Richard M. Stallman is a failure to the entire open source community. We are greatly ashamed that we could not meet the golden standards of such a modern visionary as Mr. Stallman, a man who has contributed much to society in the form of... We're not sure, but we're very ashamed that Mr. Stallman 'is not impressed.' As a result, Nokia will never again attempt to collaborate with the open source community. We are just not the type of corporation that can handle rejection."
The executive later killed himself.
hello dear sirs my name is jamesh i are india (bihar) can u guide me install red had linux 9?
So, assuming the legislation will be passed (regardless of popular will), what are the prospects for continued development? Another safe haven nation? Living within the patent system for better or worse? As much as I may dislike the outcome, I think it's almost certain this will go through. While it's good that RMS continues to fight on, I wonder what are the appropriate fallback positisions. --M
The patent pledge is important: it removes the uncertainty that Nokia might find its (already) patented tech in Linux, and sue; Nokia guarantees they wouldn't. But it's mostly important to Nokia. I'm not aware of any credible evidence that any Nokia tech is actually in the kernel, so it's really more of a gesture. And a way to warn off future inclusion of their tech in kernels, by saying "we were generous before, don't exploit your friends".
But Stallman is right about the other Nokia stance on European patents. They're bad, for Nokia like everyone else in the long run. They prevent Nokia from improving on innovation elsewhere. With a big company that can't take risks like small developers, Nokia benefits from unimpeded traffic in software. And as a hardware vendor, more software sells their products, with a protected base that can be protected by valid, traditional hardware patents.
Stallman's also right that Nokia's "harmless" patent guarantee is more important as propaganda to mollify the Linux community, their most dangerous opponent in the EU patent debate. We should accept their guarantee on its own merits, but not grant an inch on the meritless demands to chain innovation.
--
make install -not war
Stallman's take? "In effect, Nokia is lobbying the European Union to give Nokia and many others a new kind of weapon to shoot at software authors and users with--and telling the legislators, 'Don't worry, it's safe to let private armies carry these guns, because we promise that our gunmen won't shoot anyone in that building.'""
;-)
No wonder RMS is ignored outside of portions of the FOSS community. With crackpot analogies like that he will never be taken seriously by outsiders. He gets quoted by the mainstream media for his humor value. All we have here is the reinforcement of negative stereotypes of Linux advocates.
Richard, please let other people do the PR. Stick to writing the next version of the GPL and adding another meg of code to emacs. Please.
'Don't worry, it's safe to let private armies carry these guns, because we promise that our gunmen won't shoot anyone in that building.'
Isn't this basically what the US says about those "minutemen" guarding the southern border?
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl
PS. If you can present me with a copy of a real threat letter that was sent by a patent holder to a free software developer, that would be useful.
So its pretty safe to say then that FOSS is not exactly being swamped with patent infringment claims, no matter how massively Mr Stallman like to exaggerate the 'threat'. So his point, other than FUD is what exactly?
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
That said, RMS is way out of line here comparing software patents to firearms. What most left-wingers don't realize is that they are on the wrong side of the gun control debate: most Americans support the right to bear arms, and will automatically assume that anybody who opposes the 2nd Amendment is a kook from Berkeley or a communist.
(While this may indeed be true in RMS' case, it detracts from his argument nonetheless.)
Yes. Imagine that. It would suck, wouldn't it. Whatever happened to quality of life.
Get your own free personal location tracker
1) Try to make software patents valid everywhere
2) File some patents
3) Allow open source software to use your patents
4) ???
5) PROFIT!
You don't give a loaded gun to someone unless you want them to be able to shoot someone. Conversely, you don't carry a loaded gun unless you have the resolve to use it should the need arise.
Anyone telling you they want to carry a loaded gun around just because they want to brandish it or "just because", is either lying to you or is a fool. Since decisions like this are made by lawyers, it's very unlikely they are playing the fool. That leaves only one alternative.
Companies will take their actions and determination as far as they possibly can, "to the full extent of the law" is the usual phrase used. If you give them a foot, don't expect them to stop at 10 inches just because they say they will. They have absolutely every intention of using the full foot when push comes to shove and they want something bad enough. If they had no intention of using the full foot, they wouldn't be even slightly concerned about you trying to limit them to 10 inches.
Laws are there to STOP people from taking things too far. If the law places the line anywhere besides where it belongs, the law is broken.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Patents don't kill innovation, people with patents kill innovation.
Open Source Java DAO Generator
You are entirely wrong. The language of business is strongly based on terms of war: conquest, crush the opposition, gain territory...
Patents are most definitely weapons, using the same language. Patents are used for offense and for defense and are expensive. The patent industry are arms dealers (again, using the same metaphorical language) and the sale of patents, just like the sale of arms, will enable war and violence between those who want and those who have.
Patents are weapons and unfortunately are used mainly by the strong against the weak.
And Stallman is most definitely sane, and exceptionally clear in his analysis. If you do not understand him, that's OK. It's a bit intellectual. But kindly don't insult one of the visionaries of our age... it just makes you look silly.
My blog
richard simmons unimpressed by stallman's pledge to lose 50 lbs!
How are we supposed to make money if we cannot protect our inventions/innovations? Years of our hardwork that results in an IP can be stolen by anyone.
Do we have an answer to that?
http://www.rajeshgoli.com
Patents infringe on YOU!
I, for one, am thankful he didn't use a Star Wars analogy of treachery and love.
;-)
I'm sure he hasn't seen Star Wars. A ticket would only give money to the capitalist fascists who want to kill us. I'm sure he's holding out until Star Wars is released to the public domain. Err, I mean until ownership of Star Wars is transfered to the FSF and the movies are rereleased under the GEL, Gnu Entertainment License.
It's not just about Open Source
Patent Trumps Copyright.
You have a nice application, say a web cart you have written.
Presently your code is protected by Copyright.
Patents trump copyright, under patents there will be only one Cart, only one One Click Shopping, only one conversion to XML possible.
This sells out everything owned by British, French and European Software developers to those who own patents, or will be awarded patents due to their pre-existing American Patents.
Liscensing Costs will become huge, progress will fall and be done only with permission.
This is about a Critiacal as it gets, if this passes it is all over,
Ludicrous patents will be issued, blanket cover all of ideas existing before implementations.
And without money for lawyers and spare cash to survive while you can't sell due to injuctions and the appeals progress drags on, so even oning a patent will not help. It is a system where only the richest survive.
All of this has occured in America and now Japan, soon it will be here unless we take Richard Stallamn very very seriously on this.
I was at a FFII panel presentation last week. I spoke to representatives from Alcatel and British Telecom.
Very pro-patent. They argue that patents are all that protect them from "invasion by the Chinese". I asked the woman from Alcatel whether they used Linux. Yes. In house, for much of their development. In their boxes, it's Linux everywhere.
These companies, like Nokia, are profiting from the rising sea of open source and especially Linux, which is more and more becoming an essential ingredient of their production process.
So it's normal that they want to "protect Linux" in some way. What they still have to face, and this is what I told them, is that their precious patents will cause the demise of the open source economy, including Linux, in Europe, and hasten the advance of competitors who do not have the same patent regimes.
Indeed, patents in Europe are a threat to everyone including large vendors like Nokia, and even Microsoft, but people are so panicked that they can't see straight.
Basically the software industry has been hijacked by the patent business - the EPO burocracy and patent attorneys. These people are simple parasites and if they win this battle, they will suck the life out of the software industry.
The reason many open source projects are not being attacked today is because software patents are still settling. There are some attacks but overall the goal of patent owners is to enforce their patents against smaller commercial rivals, collect larger patent portfolios, and only attack open source projects where there is direct and immediate competition.
My blog
Open source isn't the same as "anyone". If Microsoft wants to use patents freely licensed for open source use in the NT kernel they have to distribute NT under an open source license. That's actually a good deal. If all software patent holders did that, it would be a real boost for open source.
Furthermore, one can well make the argument that encouraging open source development is good for innovation, since a lot of (arguably most) innovation in the industry has first appeared in open source form.
I'm not sure yet how legally solid Nokia's commitment is, but if it is solid, it's a good thing for open source, regardless of what Nokia's stance on software patents is otherwise.
or is RMS just some old fucking nut who's been getting way too much publicity?
I mean I appreciate everything he did with gnu in the past, but lately, he's been out there in conspiracy theory land with the rest of the nuts.
I just hope that peopel get there opinions from other sources too, rather just the rants of this one possible deranged man.
It seems that whenever he opens his mouth, it's to berate something, or belittle somebodys efforts.
Move sig!
Don't worry, it's safe to let open source armies carry...
I have to say, mouth-foam aside, I have a lot of respect for the guy. There's usually a kernel (heh heh) of truth to most of his arguments. He's right in this case; software patents are bad, and exempting the Linux kernel from some of them changes nothing. Sure he's off the deep end, but he's basically on the right side, and more importantly, he's incredibly straightforward. +1, Transparent agenda.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
Stallman's take? "In effect, Nokia is lobbying the European Union to give Nokia and many others a new kind of weapon to shoot at software authors and users with--and telling the legislators, 'Don't worry, it's safe to let private armies carry these guns, because we promise that our gunmen won't shoot anyone in that building.'""
;-)
It's no surprise RMS is ignored outside of portions of the FOSS community. With crackpot analogies like that he will never be taken seriously by outsiders. He gets quoted by the mainstream media for his humor value. All we have here is the reinforcement of negative stereotypes of Linux advocates. Richard, please let other people do the PR. Stick to writing the next version of the GPL and adding another meg of code to emacs. Please.
Alan Cox, the famous linux kernel guru, also had a comment on this matter a couple of days ago:6 38576
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150685&cid=12
OK. For some reason I thought you were the same poster who replied to my top post. Please accept my apologies if my first reply to you appeared uncivil due to exasperation. --M
As I've said before, fuck Stallman. He's nothing but an extreme loony who thinks that ALL commercial software is wrong, and that ALL software should be free. This could be construed as anti-American (after all, private property rights are one of America's strongholds, and RMS advocated the abolishment of those rights with regards to software).
Stallman is to software what Falwell is to religious beliefs - both think that, unless you do things the way THEY envision, that there's something wrong with you, or what you're doing. Both should be treated as extreme loonies, because that's what they are.
Holy fuck, talk about redundant.
At first I thought it was a troll, because I've seen trolls copy legitimate posts and repost them. But you reposted your own friggin' thing?
Mods, please correctly mark this -1, Redundant. If people want to read this exact post, they can go below this and read the actual THREAD that got started, with a discussion and all. No reason for this to take up space on the first page that would be better served by letting someone else's post appear.
And if you fucked up and left something off, you shouldn't start a whole new thread, you should reply to yourself.
What Stallman should do instead is put together a LARGE portfolio of patents based on GNU software. I'm sure there's a ton of patentable inventions in FOSS, and I'm also sure many developers wouldn't mind patenting their stuff to protect it from being ripped off by large corporations, given that FSF holds the patent and provides a perpetual, royalty free license to whoever wants to use it for developing open source, GPL/LGPL licensed software.
Let's face it, software patents as ridiculous as they are, are here to stay. This is why to stay in the game an organization like FSF needs a large protective patent portfolio (kinda like the one Microsoft has).
This also creates some money making opportunities for FSF, because they could sue the most vehement opponents of FOSS software pretty much at will for infringement on FSF and its contributors' "intellectual property" and request ridiculous sums of money in damages.
Because GPL software cannot benefit from the patent pledge unless it covers all GPL software. The license does not allow for software to be subject to separate licenses. If I were to fork Linux, I should not have to ask Nokia if it's okay with them for me to publish my work.
When someone sends you a letter telling you to cease-and-desist from infinging their patent, it's annoying and maybe expensive, but at the end of the day you go home to your family.
A bullet, on the other hand, can put your internal organs through a meat grinder.
See the difference?
A big problem with equating everything to physical assault is that it justifies responding to a legal or verbal attack with actual aggression since, after all, what's the difference?
Obviously RMS is appointed by God almighty to be our savior.
It seems that everytime something comes out of his mouth, it's intended to create controversy; or should we say, trolling for responses?
nt
Sounds like he's against the freedom guaranteed by the 2nd amendment of the US constitution.
So in his mind, a freedom is ok if HE supports it.. But if he doesnt support it then its not a freedom?
Never took the man seriously before, now i know why: Aside from his mindless rants that often border on lunacy, he's also a hyprocrit.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Whenever there's a story about Stallman and you get all these hundreds of vehemnent posts with these absurd degrees of loathing people on Slashdot have towards this guy who is a leading figure in the free software movement and you see so clearly that the people who post on Slashdot, versus the reading audiance at large, are predominantly composed of anti-free software people. There's nothing like a Stallman story to flush them out in droves like great flocks of quail darkening the sky on the approach of a bootstep crunching on the gravel.
Being a great advocate of free software myself the reason I tink this is great is because it shows you just how scared these small-minded, misguided fools are of Open Source. I mean what are these weirdos doing here at Slashdot if they hate Open Source? What compells them to vent their rage so loudly and spend their time in an ostensibly pro-free software forum? The answer is simple and it is impressive --they are scared.
Listen, the bootstep approaches. . . fly away in your great masses. The Stallman approaches, take to your wing. Click the submit button now, quickly. Fly away, fly away.
humm.... this nokia thing for opensource... is so good -_- for me to poop on...... d-_-b
They would be specifically granting the Linux kernel developers a license to their patents. Or more specifically, issuing a general unlimited-use license to use the patents in any GPL software, which is a legally binding document and not just a PR promise.
(Maybe they have done this? In which case RMS should shut up and go home, once Nokia issues such a license they can't take it back.)
It is possible to issue such a license - A few years ago Cornell issued such a license for a few videoconferencing patents related to their CU30 algorithm, which was initially released as an open-source implementation. Basically anyone could use the patents for free if it were in software with specific licenses, but if you wanted to use them in close-source commercial software you had to pay $$$. Also, I remember someone with a number of font-related patents (Including the underlying patent behind Microsoft's ClearType technology) did something similar - issuing a free unlimited-use license for any software that met certain open-source criteria.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Nokia Unimpressed by pissed off stallman.
"Nokia not interested in Stallman's opinion"
That would have been correct for the US, but the really big thing nowadays is the EU patent discussion.
In that terms, most europeans see americans and their right to bear arms as gun nuts.
Korea has had those speed cameras on a few major roads for some time now (e.g. the road to Incheon airport). Last year when I was over there, the cars would suddenly slow down at odd spots in the road. They would then accelerate like mad a quarter mile later.
I asked what this was about; they said "you learn where the cameras are".
Speed cameras == STUPID IDEA.
Unless you think burning more gas and causing accidents due to erratic driving are good ideas.
That's why it is a threat, and not a different kind of problem, yet.
The American administration would probably be nice enough to not to use the authoritorian powers granted to it by law unjustfully, but that does not mean a future administration will not exploit those. That's what "threat" basically means here.
"Stallman very pleased with Linux remaining GPL"
"Stallman very pleased with his dinner"
"Stallman took a crap"
"Stallman very pleased with his love life"
(Okay, the last one is newsworthy)
as "Stallman uncompressed".
But when a company like Nokia gets attacked by a patent profiteer, that only has a patent and doesn't make any products, then the big company has to pay up. Since the profiteer is not producing anything (except lawsuits), Nokia can't threaten to counter-sue. So they have to pay --- one percent, two percent, whatever the patent profiteer fancies, actually. Perhaps it won't kill a company like Nokia, but it certainly won't help their bottom line either.
A well known case is Acacia, which is a firm consisting entirely of patent lawyers, that has a patent on the idea of sending video over a computer network. Acacia's standard licence terms are to ask for 2% of the other company's turnover (regardless of how much of the revenues come from products that have anything to do with the video patent).
I wonder what Nokia's shareholders will say when they find out that Nokia's own patent lawyers have been lobbying hard for EU legislation that will make Acacia's patent enforceable in Europe.
2% of Nokia's turnover is a lot of money.
But perhaps mobile phones with cameras will go out of style anyway...
Christian Engström, Former Member of the European Parliament 2009-2014 for The Pirate Party, Sweden
It is rather odd that Nokia is singling out the "Linux" kernel as a benefactor of its largess. I would agree with Stallman's point (albeit poorly made) that the granting of "immunity" to the Linux kernel implies some manner of "threat" to other projects, including FOSS.
What would Nokia's motivation be for making this announcement? I doubt they need the clout for getting patents crammed through the EU -- it's just a matter of time, unfortnately. My guess is that they have some skunkworks project using Linux embedded (like the dead Media Terminal ).
I'm unimpressed that RMS is unimpressed.
6F 9E A9 1E 96 9F 74 27 ED B8 81 6D 0C 4E 1E 78
My other Sig is a 229.
Both the Linux kernel and the GNU tools are essential for an operating system.
i nux
Just as for a *modern* operating system, X, KDE, and Mozilla are all essential.
How come he doesn't call it "Mozilla/[KDE|XFCE|OTHERWM]/[X.org|XFree86]/GNU/L
? Oh yeah, *BECAUSE IT'S TOO DAMN LONG*
Just like I believe "GNU/Linux" is too damn long.
I'm just sick of his hypocrisy.
nothing to see here, move on.
Nokia has to do this because of newly announced LINUX tablet. It is not goodwill, they are obligated to do this under the GPL.
"The GPL says: "[..] if a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies [..] through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program."
Nokia is it seems releasing a Linux based device. When they do that the GPL is quite clear about the patents and that you *have* to give usage. So in fact the GPL says _more_ than Nokia do." - albalbo
"Nokia has to licence its patents, or people who receive the software through it are unable to redistribute that software. That would not satisfy the GPL, hence, they would not be able to distribute the software.
Nor alas is this just PR spin to make them look good. Nokia is lobbying hard to get almost unlimited software patenting allowed in Europe. This press release is part of a game to fool the parliament into believing that open source is not threatened by patents and to make them feel more comfortable. Right now the Finnish MEP's in particular face difficult choices - Nokia is almost "Finland the company" and Linus is "Finland the rockstar" , and they say exactly the reverse about patents." - Alan Cox
all business relationships take a bad turn now and then and whose to say they won't retract this promise.
Look at IBM and SCO -
rofl
;)
short sweet and oh so true
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Helmut Dersch and his PanoramaTools became victims of US software patents cf. http://www.virtualproperties.com/noipix/noipix.htm l.
This is probably dumb, If patents kill "software", Couldn't we re-define sofware? ie I not writing software, I am writing a mathematical manipulation string. Math can't be patented right?
We live in a capitalist society. What fuels our growth and success is the ability to make money. Large corporations make more money by locking out competition with patents, therfore also being able to provide jobs and health benefits and retirement plans that everyone likes. We also have free software. Great, but software patents restrict it from using xyz feature. Then we have company's who say here you go guys use it for free if your software is free.. Sounds good. It's a heck of a lot better than having an evil corporation prosecuting open source software developers. We're stuck in a catch 22 if no one registers the patent an evil corp will, and open source gets the shaft. What's the solution? Maybe an open patent registry company funded by open source supporters? maybe.. but I personally applaud Nokia, and must ask RMS to take a step down from his cloud and ask him to put up or shut up. His ideals just dont work in todays society
Later,
Phil
I'm not against patents, nor even SW patents, for genuinely original thinking that was unlikely to be derived or released elsewhere. RSA is perhaps the best example. But many patents are far less than original or non-obvious, and that is the major problem. The US has a very bad situation (patent everything), the EU has a somewhat better but still bad situation (no SW patents).
The FLOSS Prophet of Truth
Although, once you get the reference...
If I follow you logic then the inverse must also be true? If they don't do anything for pay back, which they have, the Stallman must be wrong and should public ask Nokia for forgivness? Yea I thought so. You really don't like to play by anyones rules but your own... and when when your rules don't favor you call foul... wait that sounds like the RIAA & MAPPA how ironic.
mod parent up! how can this be a troll?
In the eyes of the world, the Bush government is truly a fascist one!
Never trust what a corporation says unless you get it in writing and notorised.
Recently I have come to the conclusion that most people perceive the FSF description as something other then what it is , even myself I whas in that category of people.
.
The FSF is a "Political" group of people who gets to decide what software get the mention Free software certification by FSF. They absolutely do not base there descision on the merits and quality of software or there license , but on what political views and favor they support at this momment in time.
I dont think that the Nokia issue is really a big problem people see them coming a mile away.
But the fact that many software license which are certified Free Software when in fact in there design it allow for the closing of the source code and removal of the basic freedom which are at the core of the FSF and this for us all and that this is acepted by the politcal body controlling the FSF at this time in my opinion is absolutely wrong.
Many people knew me as one of the most vocal defender of the FSF and OSI , but in recent years both group have became politcal body instead of defender of rights of the users and access to the code.
When the OSI allow for many license to close the source code in there design I think that its absolutely wrong that they are certified and called Open Source, I view this iin the same way as a murder law which is illegal inside the country but when your outside of the limit of the country you can kill your neighboor for any reason , for me its absolutely wrong , allowing the closing of the code for Open Source is the absolute opposite of what The OSI stands for and is supposed to be certifying
When the FSF allow for many license to remove the basic rights for which the FSF stands for and allow them to be certified and called Free Software it become a mockery of the principle and of the value that is perceived as the basis for the FSF very existance.
Bot license are missing some final and decisive wording , both have the same flaw, those words which are missing : AT ALL TIME.
The Fact that those word are not in the description that The OSI and FSF use for there certification allow for a real problem which allow cetification of license which are absolutely the opposite of what those groups stand for and are supposed to protect.
By this text I encourage everyone to refuse the Current FSF and OSI certification as they are political motivated scam of what they really stand for.
I myself refute the validity of both certification at this period in time as the description they use is politicaly motivated and not based on the defense and protection of the right those two certification are suppose to be protecting.
Free Software certification should be given to free software who are Free Software at all time , not just when some people decide they would like it to be.
Open Source certification should be given to Open Source software who are Open Source at all time , not just when some people decide they would like it to be.
Sorry for the disturbance , but I am making you aware of something absolutely wrong in my view. And shall continue to do so every time I see a posting refering to the FSF and OSI as I belive them to be politcal scammer at this moment in time.
I am a REAL American from Canada , not a wanna-be from the country , self called "last remaining superpower" "of America
The reason for the patent announcement is simple. Nokia has announced that they'll be shipping a Linux-based device. Once they do, they cannot assert their patents against the Linux kernel they have been shipping, otherwise they'd be violating the GPL. In fact, the same applies to any vendor that ships Linux, including Cisco, IBM, and Sun, all of which probably have more significant patent portfolios in this space than Nokia.
Nevertheless, Nokia didn't have to choose Linux. They could have shipped BSD or QNX, for example. Someone did a cost/benefit analysis inside Nokia and found that Linux was worth it. That's a good thing. In fact, I think it's a better thing than if they had done this for publicity or other intangible reasons.
It's true Nokia is also lobbying for software patents. I'm not convinced, however, that the two actions are necessarily related, however. Companies aren't all that organized or coordinated internally, and there are far easier arguments for them to make.
""Stallman's take? "In effect, Nokia is lobbying the European Union to give Nokia and many others a new kind of weapon to shoot at software authors and users with--and telling the legislators, 'Don't worry, it's safe to let private armies carry these guns, because we promise that our gunmen won't shoot anyone in that building.'"""
;-)"
;-)
"It's no surprise RMS is ignored outside of portions of the FOSS community. With crackpot analogies like that he will never be taken seriously by outsiders. He gets quoted by the mainstream media for his humor value. All we have here is the reinforcement of negative stereotypes of Linux advocates. Richard, please let other people do the PR. Stick to writing the next version of the GPL and adding another meg of code to emacs. Please.
At first I thought it was a troll, because I've seen trolls copy legitimate posts and repost them. But you reposted your own friggin' thing?
First an aside, the real point comes later, please hang in there. I can understand how the orginal above would be considered a troll by some. I accept that. I expected "-1 troll" mods by some but I don't think that should deter one from offering a controversial opinion and I don't have the instincts of a politician who can couch every comment in a politically correct non-offense manner.
Now the real point. Does anyone think that "overrated" and "underrated" invite abusive moderation? They are so bland they effectively allow zealots to advocate or silence positions without fear of metamoderation. This thwarts the entire moderation process. I think they should be done away with, when you moderate take a position or pass.
This was just a thought as I noticed the above getting insightful and overrated mods. It seemed weird to get overrated rather than troll, which I was not shooting for but at least would make sense. Now when someone mods this post as overrated how can we award that mod a point for humor.
Are we to draw the same ahistorical conclusion for older versions of the Linux kernel, which Linus Torvalds gets untold amounts of adulation for?
Torvalds began what would become the Linux kernel, but Torvalds doesn't work on every line of Linux code anymore, he hasn't for some years now. Older versions of the Linux kernel aren't under Torvalds' managerial control because he has passed on the task of maintenance to other people (such as Marcello Tosatti who took over Alax Cox's job overseeing the 2.4 version). And we musn't forget the other forks of the kernel maintained and distributed by various GNU/Linux distributions, or the private derivatives (like the variant of the Linux kernel running on my machine right now) which contain code these maintainers never see.
Torvalds gets a lot of credit for work he did not do -- even going so far as to not correct anyone who calls "Linux" an operating system, not just a kernel -- very few people bother to mention Cox, Tosatti, or other maintainers of their distribution's derivative of the Linux kernel (various people at IBM, Red Hat, Novell, Canonical, etc.). This might be a side effect of the name "Linux" itself, which serves as a reminder of Linus Torvalds.
But you would have us believe that GCC (which contains no mention of Stallman by name) should grant Stallman no credit. Interesting, that in one respect this is part of an unbroken line of attempts to deny Stallman credit for valuable work he's begun or done, but also interesting in that it denies the iterative improvements that are at the heart of human achievements in art and science. Everyone stands on someone's shoulders and I think it's a big step in the wrong direction to deny credit to someone who's work has been of such enormous value to us all.
Digital Citizen
The US is the same as Germany in WW1 and Nazi in WW2. They pick on everyone who dont agree with them.And they enforce there view by military coup and illegal millitary actions. They think themself as superior and are cowardly making themself into some superior race.
They forget that there is only one race : The Human Race and that not only are they the weakest armed force with the money they invest in it , they have also been defeated every time in the past by enemy they had created for themself.
First strike whas the beginning of last drop for many people , they close the gasket when they called the UN irrelevant.
WW3 is already started , the armed conflict will begin soon.
Perhaps you are unaware of the common practice of military analogy in the business world?
The following statement goes beyond normal business analogies:
"Stallman's take? "In effect, Nokia is lobbying the European Union to give Nokia and many others a new kind of weapon to shoot at software authors and users with--and telling the legislators, 'Don't worry, it's safe to let private armies carry these guns, because we promise that our gunmen won't shoot anyone in that building.'"""
Seriously, if a CEO went to such extremes you would not expect him to be rediculed and blown off as a nutcase? I'm sure some CEOs are nutcases prone to speaking like that but that is why they have PR departments to keep them from reflecting poorly on themselve and the company. Unfortunately FOSS has no such leash and RMS is free to reinforce all the negative stereotypes others are trying to undo.
considering software by its very nature is not patentable except by some dillusion fabracated by man, anythng that suggest otherwise, such as a promise not to use software patents against a named party, is also dillusional and in denial of the genuine nature of software. If one os going to be dillusional, who that is sane would trust them?
Now, the earth is flat and if you sail out there, the dragons will get you.
This is exactly true: A promise without consideration is not a contract. Nokia should be offering a 1-euro license to all comers -- then they would prove that their stance is merely defensive.
Allot new ideas start out sounding like crackpot analogies, especially to people who dont have all the facts. A good portion of people in America today are living under ideals that have been ingrained into the them by the media and society, this usually leads to problems when you need to actually think and do research for your self.
Stallman is man of absolutes, all or nothing. He uses analogies that reflect that, and to make a point. Intellectual Property is a completely insane idea, but its understandable coming from a society of over thinkers. obsessive thinking has lead to the corruption of the patent system which was once used to protect an individual's work from large entities for a LIMITED time. The patent system was never intended for what it is being used for now and should be abolished.
Be carefull on what you call crazy or insane, there is allways a hint of truth in it.
You are not your mind.
When was the last time RMS was pleased by anything?
(Richard: one word: Prozac.)
... Stallman hysterical FUD...
Stallman... we DONT live in a Star Trek happy utopian... software companies are NOT the Borg (even the most obvious candidate)... get a life... paying for software is not going to cause the "end of the world"...
1) So no one creates a free / competeing project.
2) Good PR
Your obsession with cold cash is frightening.
Moron, cant you read? I said ANY subject.
So to answer your ignorant question: Correct, your 'contribution' would be of no value.
Furthermore, you should be banished from the country if you happen to live in the USA. ( assuming you disagree with the constitution and its original 10 amendments thats is )
PS, I'm done dealing with you. This is far too OT now to continue.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"It's no surprise RMS is ignored outside of portions of the FOSS community."
Really? Ignored? I was under the impression there was a tremendous amount of invitation for Mr Stallman to speak at all kinds of functions.
BTW you forgot to call him smelly and a communist. Please do better next time OK?
evil is as evil does
So "the UNIX operating system", and "The Windows operating system" are kernels?
Back to school, kiddo.
As Linus said: "Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you need a shell, compilers, a library etc. These are separate parts and may be under a stricter (or even looser) copyright. Most of the tools used with linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft. These tools aren't in the distribution - ask me (or GNU) for more info."
Why should Stallman hold his tongue? He laid out the rationale for free software 20 years ago; everything he foresaw has come to pass. I'm amazed he has any patience left. At some point, there's only so much that one man can do. Sooner or later, you, I, the rest of us who write (or use) software are going to have to choose whether to stick up for those beliefs, or bend over and be screwed. To Stallman's credit, he hasn't given up yet.
you had me at #!
Software patents inherently favor large corporations with teams of lawyers over not-for-profit organizations funded by individual donations... in a world of strongly enforced software patents, big companies will have one more effecive way to "compete" with the little guys.
Ummm no.
If you want to get technical, the kernel is the kernel.
An OS is a kernel plus all the other tools that are necessary to actually do something with it.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
The FSF wouldn't be able to shakedown proprietary software companies, as they could just retaliate. But a patent portfoilio would help deter patent attacks from Microsoft: Gates woould know that any lawsuits against Linux users or developers could result in similar attacks against Windows.
Remember: to me, id software is good because every single one of their games uses OpenGL exclusively (if they use hardware acceleration) and either has a native Linux port or a native Linux port with source code.
To Stallman, id software is evil because not all of their games are GPL'd. That's right -- they should not only release the source to Doom 3, but they should GPL it, so that no one can ever make a proprietary game with it again.
In other words, Stallman has no concept of "good enough". More like "Either you're with us or you're against us." Sound familiar? It should -- it's what Bush kept saying when he was trying to convince people to invade Iraq.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Stallman's right and the other poster that mentions how they 'let you' use something. Don't take gifts from these ppl, spit in their face.
How is this insightful. Why do somany ppl find sucking dick to be so insightful. Yeah, well, no shit.
I haven't read TFA, and I won't be either. I've just had two bottom teeth extracted, and the dentist told me to make sure to take things very quietly for the rest of the day. If there's one thing that normally makes me truly angry, however, it's reading something written by Richard Stallman...so I will abstain on those grounds.
If Stallman actually wants to make himself useful, he might try investigating Red Hat's hijacking of the GNU project...particularly Glibc. The plan on their part is while keeping Glibc under the GPL, to simply make it sufficiently complex that they won't have to fear many people using it, and will thus be able to move closer to their desired general monopoly on Linux.
But to RMS: Either actually do some concrete work on preserving your software's freedom, or go back to sleep...because all pontificating does is piss people off.
Actually, this happened many years ago - long before GPS and modern technology. In South Africa the speed limit was lowered because there was a fuel shortage (around the time OPEC first imposed production restrictions). The problem was that most people just ignored the change and carried on like they always did. The traffic police started enforcing the speed limit by noting license plates as people started a trip between two towns (there was only one road between the towns) and then worked out how long the trip should take if the people were not speeding. In the second town the police then just pulled people who arrived too soon over and gave them fines!
mod it up, oh baby, mod it up!
mod it mod it up, mod it up, baby mod it up.
I was under the impression there was a tremendous amount of invitation for Mr Stallman to speak at all kinds of functions.
I'm under the impression that it is primarily from Linux user groups, academia, and other parts of the FOSS community. Not from business groups curious about Linux, thankfully there are others available for that.
BTW you forgot to call him smelly and a communist. Please do better next time OK?
Thank you for blowing any credibility you may have had. End of conversation.
"I'm under the impression that it is primarily from Linux user groups, academia, and other parts of the FOSS community."
Well then you are under the wrong impression.
"Thank you for blowing any credibility you may have had. End of conversation."
I think you blew any credibility you may have had with your pointless bashing of RMS.
evil is as evil does
"I'm under the impression that it is primarily from Linux user groups, academia, and other parts of the FOSS community."
Well then you are under the wrong impression.
Sorry but googling does not support your impression. Are you his personal secretary, care to share his calendar or whatever you use to form your impression?
I think you blew any credibility you may have had with your pointless bashing of RMS.
Sorry, but you are digging yourself in a deeper hole. The criticism of his hysterical analogy was spot on. He does reinforce negative stereotypes. That's reality, get past the fanboi'ism.
Your characterization of his analogy as "hysterical" blows what little credibility you may have left.
It's amazing how he seems to raise the hackles of corporate shills everywhere. We need more people like him. If that makes me a fan then so be it.
evil is as evil does
Your characterization of his analogy as "hysterical" blows what little credibility you may have left.
You have read his comment that started this thread? Here:
"Stallman's take? "In effect, Nokia is lobbying the European Union to give Nokia and many others a new kind of weapon to shoot at software authors and users with--and telling the legislators, 'Don't worry, it's safe to let private armies carry these guns, because we promise that our gunmen won't shoot anyone in that building.'""
You think that furthers FOSS and does not perpetuate a negative image?
It's amazing how he seems to raise the hackles of corporate shills everywhere. We need more people like him. If that makes me a fan then so be it.
I'm a corporate shill? Good lord how ignorant you are. Hint: there are many FOSS supporters and advocates who cringe when RMS speaks in public. And no you do not seem a fan, you seem a fanboi. There is a distinction.
So hows that list of corporate speaking engagements coming along? Yeah, right.
Farewell.
"You think that furthers FOSS and does not perpetuate a negative image?"
Yes, furthermore it's not anywhere near "hysterical".
"I'm a corporate shill"
Yes I do.
"Hint: there are many FOSS supporters and advocates who cringe when RMS speaks in public."
Not many, some, few, but not many.
"And no you do not seem a fan, you seem a fanboi."
And you seem to be shill.
"So hows that list of corporate speaking engagements coming along?"
You can do your research right? Just ask your boss for one. I would think they keep close track of his movements.
evil is as evil does
Twitter, you're a petulant cock-gobbling sycophant to Linux Torvaldyos! Quit taking DP from ESR and RMS's feculent cocks and why don't you try to stop sucking quite so much? Get out of your parents' basement and see the real world - maybe then you'll see how pathetic you sound, with your neverending stream of bullshit about how Microsoft is stalking you. Wasn't it you who said that Microsoft believes your insane ranting is actually a threat to them, so they PAY PEOPLE to reply to you on Slashdot? No sir, I don't get any money. I do it for the love. Someone has to go up against your paranoid whining. So get back in your cage and shut the fuck up already.