`Bionic' Arm Brings Back Sense of Touch

bdcrazy writes "Two way communication with prosthetic devices allows man who lost both arms in an accident to feel hot and cold, to sense objects and to actually move the prosthetic device to pick things up and put them down. "

Comments

Nice

[natron 2.0]

It is well and good until the arms short circuit and try to kill him...

Re:Nice

[madprogrammer]

Ever notice that when things are well and good, they're never really well and good?

Same with fine and dandy...

Re:Nice

[CorporateWhoremone]

lineman for a Tennessee power company, Sullivan in 2001 grabbed a high-tension wire carrying 7,400 volts of electricity, which incinerated his arms. If his 12V arms shorted I don't think it would even phase this guy.

Re:Nice

[Quirk]

When good hands go bad.

Re:Nice

[Zak3056]

If his 12V arms shorted I don't think it would even phase this guy.

I've gotta ask: was that an intentional pun, or just luck? :)

Re:Nice

[geekster]

I was sure you were going to say "... until someones looses an eye"

"So human! Does this feel hot or cold to you!?" *poke* *poke* *poke*
"aaaaarrrrrhhhg!!"

Re:Nice

[a1cypher]

Just hope he doesnt make the same mistake twice ;)

Re:Nice

[Dirtside]

If his 12V arms shorted I don't think it would even phase this guy.

But you'd probably hear about it in current events.

Re: Nice

[The Notorious ASP]

It's a Shock and Awe kind of thing

Flashback

[lukewarmfusion]

...to robot pricking each finger and palm, one by one, as the patient says "ow!" and then wrapping the prosthetic arm in a black glove...

Step 2

[Nytewynd]

The next step is finding out that Darth Vader is your daddy.

Re:Step 2

[mindaktiviti]

Actually he already found out. He's getting these arms so he can be a bad-ass dual light saber fighter. Something to keep up on.

Re:Step 2

[Eclypser]

No oo ooo oooo ooooo

Re:Step 2

[lastchance_000]

It's all in the timing.

Peltier Junction

[Enigma_Man]

These work using a peltier junction. For those not "in-the-know", peltier junctions are basically chunks of metal that push heat to one side when you run current through them one way, and the other side when you run current through them the other way. This provides a cold, and a hot side that can be varied very quickly from cold to hot, by changing the amount and direction of the current. They are very inefficient though, requiring a lot of current that is generated as excess heat overall. These are commonly used to cool processor cores down, pushing more heat into the heatsink, but keeping the core cooler than it would be with just a heatsink.

-Jesse

Re:Peltier Junction

[RapmasterT]

These are commonly used to cool processor cores down, pushing more heat into the heatsink, but keeping the core cooler than it would be with just a heatsink.

I'd disagree that they're "commonly used" for CPU cooling. Peltier heat sink assemblies have fallen way out of vogue in the last few years and were never particularly popular in the first place. Problems like generating a significantly higher amount of waste heat, while simultaneously creating a frost (no kidding) and condensation problem made them extremely impractical when faced with water cooling options.

That being said, peltier cooling IS commonly used in those little desk top refridgerators and portable DC cooler/warmers that you see for sale in RV catalogs.

Re:Peltier Junction

[ZephyrXero]

I've actually often wondered what it would take to give a synthetic sense of touch to something. I'm guessing this "peltier junction" must be the best option for temperature since that's what their using? What else would you need, and how would you accomplish it? You would need the ability to feel whether or not something is hard or soft, whether or not it is rough or smooth, and that's really about it? Could both smoothness and hardness be deteched by the same sensors? If anyone knows please reply...it's fasinating :)

Re:Peltier Junction

[Enigma_Man]

Peltier junctions are most often used for CPU cooling, I suppose is what I meant to say, though that was just a guess. I've also seen them in those port-o-coolers too... Anybody know of anything else these are used for?

-Jesse

Re:Peltier Junction

[Enigma_Man]

Well, in this article, it says that the nerves from the guy's hand were reattached into his chest, attached to a pneumatic plunger that would push on the nerves when his replacement hand was pushed on; that would give him the sense of touch/pressure, though I doubt it has the resolution for something like surface texture. I'm assuming in this case (it's how it's done elsewhere in prosthetics) that there are also peltier junctions touching the nerves to provide the hot/cold sensation. In the past, the peltier junction was connected to the stump of the arm, so that you would be able to feel hot or cold, but it wouldn't actually feel like it was on your previous hand, it'd still feel like it was on the stump.

-Jesse

Re:Peltier Junction

[RapmasterT]

Sharper Image used to sell a neck cooling thing that used peltier coolers, but then they changed it to a water evaporator design. Battery life probably sucked on the original.

Re:Peltier Junction

[ZephyrXero]

Well, I not only wonder about it in the sense of prosthetic replacements, but what about for a full out robot? Or I guess more in my field, what about in a virtual world on an AI creature...

On the topic of heat/cold again...couldn't they put a bunch of tiny thermometors (sp?) embedded in a synthetic skin and then have a chip give the brain the appropriate sensations based on that data?

Re:Peltier Junction

[Enigma_Man]

That's essentially what they're doing here. They're using temperature-sensors in the fingers of the robotic hand, and then using peltier junctions directly connected to the nerve endings from the old hand that relay that temperature to the brain.

It'd be nice if we had direct interfaces into the brain, but we don't yet.

-Jesse

Re:Peltier Junction

[chrisnewbie]

What about someone who doesnt know his left from right!! Can get messy!

Re:Peltier Junction

[Qzukk]

Problems like generating a significantly higher amount of waste heat, while simultaneously creating a frost (no kidding) and condensation problem made them extremely impractical when faced with water cooling options.

That and becoming an insulator should it lose power.

Re:Peltier Junction

[cr0sh]

These work using a Peltier junction. For those not "in-the-know", Peltier junctions are basically chunks of metal that push heat to one side when you run current through them one way, and the other side when you run current through them the other way.

Umm - not exactly. What you are describing is commonly known as a TEC, or "Thermoelectric Cooler" (and also known as a Peltier cooler). They are not composed of a single Peltier junction, but rather a large multitude of such junctions in what is basically a semiconductor package. A TEC is basically a semiconductor-based heat pump, which uses electricity to move heat from one side of the TEC to the other. In the process, the TEC also generates a fair amount of heat (no such thing as a "free lunch") from the hot side, while also consuming a fair amount of energy (which most of it is converted to heat, the rest moving heat from the cold side to the hot side). Finally, remember that you can't generate cold - coldness is the absence of heat.

Now, as I have noted, TECs work via the use of multiple Peltier junctions. Peltier junctions are fairly simple devices, consisting of a junction made between two dissimilar conductors. TECs are made in this manner, but in the same way as ICs are made (more or less). On a larger scale, though, a Peltier junction is easy to make - get a piece of alluminum wire, and a piece of copper wire, and twist them together: congratulations, you have just made a simple (though very inefficient) Peltier junction (however, this is not what can cause house fires in older homes with alluminum wiring - this problem is caused by a combination of alluminum and copper wire junctions heating up because of the resistance of the junction, thus starting a fire).

Peltier junctions work by using something known as the Peltier Effect, which was observed in 1834 by Jean Peltier 13 years after the Seebeck effect was first discovered. The Seeback effect is basically the inverse of the Peltier effect - in that two disimilar conductors, in the presence of a heat source, generate an electrical current. This effect has been used in industry to detect and measure extremely high temperatures, such as what is generated in various industrial furnaces. It has also been experimented with as a method to use the sun to generate electricity (ie, use a solar furnace to focus the sun on a bundle of the junctions) - there is actually an old Popular Mechanics article from the 1950's or 1960's showing how to build such a device.

As to whether you can use a TEC to exploit the Seebeck effect in a practical manner - probably not, as they aren't designed to work in this manner, and you might destroy the device. However, these devices are cheap enough, and if you supplied an appropriate cooling system for the device you might get a bit of electricity out of it - just don't expect much. It would make an interesting science fair project for the kids, though (grab a TEC, a fresnel lens, and a very large heat sink with a fan, bolt it all together and hook it up to a cheap voltmeter, then set it in the sun).

BTW - where did all the real geeks on this site go to, anyhow?

Re:Peltier Junction

[Enigma_Man]

Uh, no... I was describing a peltier junction, as in one single solitary junction. A peltier junction is a chunk of metal (I simplified, hence my use of the word "basically", it's actually a chunk of _two_ metals, excuse me) that pushes heat to one side or another depending on which way you shove current through them... Which is also exactly the way you described them, and exactly what I described... I'm missing the part where I was wrong.

-Jesse

Re:Peltier Junction

[cr0sh]

First off, I never said you were completely wrong - I merely implied that your statement was off a bit, and that I wanted to expand upon it to provide readers with a deeper understanding of just what a Peltier junction was. Your original statement (first sentence, actually) was:

These work using a peltier junction.

Most explicitly the use of the word "a" - had you stated something akin to "These work using a multitude of peltier junctions", I would be more inclined to uphold your statement on the whole. I still would have expanded upon it, just dropping my first sentence in the process.

A Peltier junction is just that - a junction between two dissimilar electrical conductors - which for most purposes are metals, but doesn't necessarily have to be. They aren't a single chunk, nor two chunks, but instead a "bonded" junction - in a macro-size Seebeck junction (which, remember, is just a Peltier running in reverse), the bond is typically a brazed bond, or in some cases just the wire is twisted tightly together (a mechanical bond). I suppose even an epoxied bond could be used for a lower temperature probe...

Finally - my last sentence was mostly a plea for more in-depth comments to be made. Yes, what you described was technically mostly correct, but told nothing about how such a device actually works, nor does it give any history of it. I guess I expect on a site supposedly filled with geeks some comments which can educate. A simple link on the words "peltier junction" to a site similar (or the same) as what I linked would have been perfect. Please don't argue "just use google", because while one could, that is really a cop out to avoid doing the work of providing links in a medium and forum explicitly designed for them. We should strive, where we can (as needed by context, and to the commentor's knowledge), supply the links, not expect people to look it up on their own - because most won't, and many of the rest won't know how to search properly (thus possibly finding incorrect explanations)...

Yes but...

[ravenspear]

When will this guy be able to get some feeling back with the use of a prosthetic device.

Re:Yes but...

[CyricZ]

Your link is broken. But I suspect something happened to his penis. Could you elaborate? How was it cut off? Did some machinery in a shop explode and tear his penis off? Or did a trout eat it?

Re:Yes but...

[koreaman]

Supposedly they found his penis and put it back on. This according to the article you linked. I've heard of not R'ing TFA, but you should at least R your OWN TFA.

Re:Yes but...

[ravenspear]

Oops, you're right. I stopped reading after "it was flushed down the toilet."

I'm not sure I would want mine reattached if that happened to it.

Re:Yes but...

[koreaman]

I would. I'm sure they could wash it off quite well. And think about it: this is your penis we're talking about.

Re:Yes but...

[Jeremi]

Just our of morbid curiosity... exactly how long can a penis remain separated from its owner before it is no longer possible to reattach it?

And of course, there is the theme song for this topic

Fast enough?

[Anonymous Coward]

Would the user be able to sense that his arm is in liquid-hot MAAGMAAA before it melted?

Old, artificial arm joke

[winkydink]

This reminds me of the old joke about the voice-actuated artificial arm.

They finally attach one to an armless human patient and it goes like this.

The guy says, "Arm, scratch my nose". And the arm does it.

"Amazing!", says the guy.

"Arm, sign my name." The arm does it.

This continues for quite a while. Finally when the guy's alone.
He says, "Arm, take off my pants." The arm complies.

He looks at the arm, and then at his penis and says, "OK arm, jerk it off!"

Re:Old, artificial arm joke

[mat catastrophe]

You can make this joke worse by adding the following:

The guy then screams in pain, "Oh, fuck me!"

Re:Old, artificial arm joke

[winkydink]

No, the arm jerks his penis off. Off his body.

Sheesh.

Re:Old, artificial arm joke

[CyricZ]

So then the next logical step is that he gets a prosthetic, voice-controlled penis, right? What's so wrong about that? Back in my youth I would get erections all the time in public. A fine lady would walk by, and my flagpole would stand at attention! But now with a voice controlled penis this man could say, "Down, boy! Down! Down!" and his penis would go flimsy.

Re:Old, artificial arm joke

[winkydink]

Nice. Funny too.

Re:Old, artificial arm joke

[Markus_UW]

Haha, that could come in handy sometimes. And then, when you're old and it won't go up, no need for Viagra, just tell it to.

Re:Old, artificial arm joke

[Sethus]

You can make this joke worse by adding the following:

The guy then screams in pain, "Oh, fuck me!"

Hmm... thats not quite right. It should read, "Arm, Oh fuck me!" There we go, fixxed :)

Re:Old, artificial arm joke

[mat catastrophe]

Yea, it doesn't really fit with this version of the joke. The way I heard it was that the guy is amazed that his arm will do anything he tells it and never gets tired, so he goes to a bar and orders beer after beer, thus leading to his poor choice of words...

Re:Old, artificial arm joke

[Daktaklakpak]

Well, the article DID say that:

Sullivan, 58, sees it as a step toward his fishing pole.

cheaper than I expected

[justforaday]

So far it's only cost about $100,000, which is far cheaper than the $6,000,000 that was originally estimated. Maybe we'll get a little closer to that price once another arm is added, and some legs and a head and body...

Re:cheaper than I expected

[Launch]

$100,000 in parts alone... the sugery, research, and development goes into the millions.

Re:cheaper than I expected

[noidentity]

So far it's only cost about $100,000, which is far cheaper than the $6,000,000 that was originally estimated.

Yeah, but it still costs an arm and a leg... er for an arm. But a bionic arm!

Re:cheaper than I expected

[lgw]

Six million dollars total, perhaps?

Re:cheaper than I expected

[dubiousx99]

Ok so we now know the exact cost of an arm, when will they do a leg so we can finally know how much an arm and a leg really cost?

Re:cheaper than I expected

[doswarrior]

Hmm, 6 million. That means I can either have working arms again or become Batman.

OOoooh

[TCaptain]

"We can rebuild him. We have the technology.
We have the capability to make the world's first Bionic man.
Steve Austin will be that man. Better than he was before.
Better . . . stronger . . . faster."

Re:OOoooh

[halltk1983]

Man, I miss that show. What was it called again?

Re:OOoooh

[WormholeFiend]

And then we can use him to fight the fembots and bionic Bigfoot!

Re:OOoooh

[Anonymous Coward]

"We can rebuild him. We have the technology.
But I don't want to spend a lot of money..."

*runs out with a trashcan leg and a rake for an arm*

Re:OOoooh

[hivebrain]

And did you notice the arm costs $6 million? Coincidence, or is it something more?

Re:OOoooh

[Wordsmith]

The KING! OF! SPAIN!

Re:OOoooh

[mogalpha]

Now if only we put a gun on one hand, a bionic latch device on the other, and make him sing 8-bit MIDI... we could have ourselves a Bionic Commando!

Vader

[Ichtys]

Coming soon! Get your own robotic limbs. For that Vader feeling.

Re:Vader

[sharkb8]

Didn't MTV's Liquid Television have a spoof ad for Lee Press on Limbs? I seem to remember you could get them in plaid.

Non-binary feedback

[UltimateWager]

The article describes being able to feel different levels of pressure in addition to different temperatures. It sounds like an impressive level of feedback.

Anybody want to take bets on how long it takes for a Linux dist. to be built for it?

Re:Non-binary feedback

[pointbeing]

Anybody want to take bets on how long it takes for a Linux dist. to be built for it?

Cool. Then we can create a beow...

Oh, never mind.

Re:Non-binary feedback

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

The article describes being able to feel different levels of pressure in addition to different temperatures. It sounds like an impressive level of feedback.

Anybody want to take bets on how long it takes for a Linux dist. to be built for it?

About 5 years, 1 year for the guy to learn how to type "make menuconfig" with his toes, and another 4 for gentoo to finish compiling.

Re:Non-binary feedback

[lordofthechia]

Cool. Then we can create a beow...

You mean like DR. Octupus? Always wondered what OS he used to control his arms. Makes sense now!

Re:Non-binary feedback

[Digital Pizza]

NetBSD was ported to it about an hour ago.

What does this mean to biotechnology?

[pestilence669]

I keep wondering if advances in prothetics will slow research into regrowing limbs. Once the replacement becomes better than the real thing, will people trade in their real arms for fake ones?

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[Reverend528]

Why on earth would anyone want to trade in a real arm for a robotic one? Why not just have 3 arms?

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[Norgus]

Probably if some private companies offer fitting them as a service. Although there is still the financial limitation.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[BioCS.Nerd]

I suppose it could slow the research of growing artificial limbs, but I would personally hope to see mechanical limbs as a sort of "loaner" until your new biological limb can be grown (much like you would borrow a car from a dealership when your car is being fixed). More so, I would posit that growing limbs is much further down the line than mechanical limbs. The two streams of research will probably continue unabated by the other for quite some time to come.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[Martin Blank]

Skeletal reconstruction associated with a third arm, not to mention the control issues (is it even possible?) would make replacement far more likely than augmentation.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[pestilence669]

I never thought of it that way. I can totally see pr0n sites selling 3rd arms.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[m50d]

That'd damage your jacket

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[thomasa]

couldn't mechanical limbs also be used for robotics design? I would
think the hardware would be the same. I.e., advance two technologies at the same time.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[Jerf]

Some people, yes. Some people, no.

It probably won't take us long to make an arm that in some ways exceeds the capabilities of real arms. Your first thought is strength, but a strong arm requires a strong body to support it. But you might embed other things in it that Nature hasn't seen fit to provide us, or at least have an arm that is strong without having to be exercised.

But it will likely be a while before we have an arm that is a uniform improvement over our real arms. Healing, for instance, is a really nice feature, it is just loaded with sensors, and it integrates well with the rest of the body without much extra effort.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[Reverend528]

I can totally see pr0n sites selling 3rd arms.

I can just imagine the two-handed web browsing jokes we'll have to read in the future.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[shaitand]

Healing is not nearly so nice a feature as complete repair.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[Packet Pusher]

If your arms were removed and made stronger and impervious to pain your body would also loose that much cooling capacity and also muscle tissue to burn off all those pizzas.

Arms are easy anyway, try making a leg that does that. Your leg makes thousands of muscle changes a second to keep you upright. Your arm just hangs there by comparison.

It would be the 1 in a million person who decided that they would rather have a strong, laser beam equiped artifical limb over a real one though. Too much maintenance :)

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[zippthorne]

Why wouldn't it be? sure you'd need some kind of biological version of a neural net to adapt. Not sure where'd you'd get something like that though.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[zkn]

I'm planning on having my intire body, including head and brain since computeres are proberbly gonna get better then us with time, replaced by robotics. It looks like the only way to keep my job once the robots enter the workmarket.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[Jerf]

It depends on the situation.

If I live in a city, and I'm willing to bet my arms that society will not collapse so far that I can't get my arms fixed, it may be a good tradeoff.

On the other hand, if for some reason I will not or can not depend on a technological society to back me up indefinately, I may choose to keep my conventional arms, which will, most likely, continue working effectively indefinitely, until the rest of me is dead. (There are several caveats in that "most likely".)

A lot of people have criticized the human body in the past, but to date, it's the best known thing for living on planet Earth across the span of technology from effectively none to at least slightly beyond where we are now. We may be able to beat human arms in the case of high technology, but it's an open question IMHO whether we can create a replacement arm that is significantly better and different (i.e., not just a tweaking of what we have) that could still be a pure advantage even in the event of some society-smashing catastrophe.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

And an extra head, with an AMD chip for crunching numbers like an autistic savant.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[blincoln]

Why on earth would anyone want to trade in a real arm for a robotic one? Why not just have 3 arms?

Three arms wouldn't look appealing on a human body, for one.

Ideally, I'd like to be able to get organic replacement parts for my body as I grow older. If they aren't available by then, I wouldn't mind robotic ones, assuming they were at least as good as what they were replacing.

Robotic arms - or better yet, a full body, General Grievous-style - would be really useful in a lot of ways. You could race motorcycles or work with heavy machinery without worrying as much about getting killed or spending months recovering from a serious injury.

If they had standard connections, you could even swap out various types depending on the task. Playing the piano? Switch to the hands with fingers twice the length that an un-augmented human has.

You'd just have to watch out for the jokers with giant electromagnets =P.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[fanblade]

You realize that with this technology, replacement limbs could be detachable and wireless. It's entirely within reach.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[Jesus_666]

Yeah, but the early models will be hell on your essence. Also - while we're talking about burning essence - why bothering with bioware if you can just buy a natural-looking cyberlimb and hide, say, a shotgun in it? Versatility is what keeps you running, chummer.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[doc modulo]

Masamune Shirow, the Sci-Fi author of Appleseed and Ghost in the Shell says that removing organs will decrease brain activity. Replacing not only limbs but also organs or your whole torso might make you a mouth breathing idiot.

His characters don't have that problem but he's writing Sci-Fi.

He also said that total body cyborgification is better if you want superhuman strenght because a super strong arm is no good if lifting something heavy will just rip it off it's fleshy attachements.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[BiggerIsBetter]

Hmm. That reminds me of a song...

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[Jeremi]

Once the replacement becomes better than the real thing

Somehow I don't see that happening any time soon.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[blincoln]

Masamune Shirow, the Sci-Fi author of Appleseed and Ghost in the Shell says that removing organs will decrease brain activity. Replacing not only limbs but also organs or your whole torso might make you a mouth breathing idiot.

And he bases this on what scientific research exactly?

Even if he is referring to nerve decay, as long as you keep stimulating them like this technology does, I don't see why it would be a problem.

He also said that total body cyborgification is better if you want superhuman strenght because a super strong arm is no good if lifting something heavy will just rip it off it's fleshy attachements.

I agree. Plus you can swap entire bodies as needed based on what you're doing.

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[pipingguy]

{blood spurting and sawing sounds stop}

You mean it's still only in beta? Aaaarghhh!!!

Re:What does this mean to biotechnology?

[fuzzybunny]

I would love to have a hand on my forehead. I have tried to convince my girlfriend that this would, in fact be wicked cool (even more so than my idea for over-and-under double barreled penises) but she doesn't seem to get it.

Think about it--sipping coffee, smoking a cigarette, keeping your sunglases from slipping off your forehead, reading maps while driving, the possibilities are endless.

As for "wouldn't look appealing"? Well, if someone ever criticized my third forehead hand, I'd lean in real close, look them in the eye, and SLAP THEM.

Cost Prohibitive

[ehaggis]

Unfortunately the price after all is said and done: "By the time it's perfected, the cost of manufacturing the bionic arm is expected to be about $6 million, according to the report."(http://www.local6.com/news/4643968/detail .html)

It is still good to see technology used to change someone's life for the positive.

Re:Cost Prohibitive

[markana]

Yeah, but $6mil *used* to get you an arm, two legs, and an eye. Now it's just an arm.

I guess that's inflation for you...

Re:Cost Prohibitive

[jthayden]

I know it says manufacture, but I suspect that is the cost for developing the first one. The actual mass production of these would be much cheaper bringing the per unit cost down to something more reasonable.

What exactly happened to his penis?

[CyricZ]

So are you saying that his penis was ejaculated and made flaccid, or was it torn right off?

You Know...

[__aaclcg7560]

Feeling hot and cold is one, but how about feeling a woman? I think a guy would be in a lot more pain if she rips it off and beat him to death with it.

Re:You Know...

[Anonymous Coward]

"but how about feeling a woman?"

you said it yourself, they already have ones that can feel cold...

*posted anonymously to protect myself from being beaten to death with my own ripped off arm

Progress

[Bimo_Dude]

They're making progress in this ares, but still have a long way to go. I wonder how long it will take for the researchers to develop some kind of motor system that is lightweight and has enough tourque to more accurately mimic normal human movements.

This may also advance the general robotics fields too (I would love to have a robot to fetch food and clean).

Re:Progress

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

They already have artifical muscles. But I suspect they're not practical enough at the moment for use in situations like this.

you forgot the noise

[Prince Vegeta SSJ4]

da-na-na na-na na-na na

Masturbating.

[Poromenos1]

Masturbating without a sense of touch is way better though, it doesn't feel like you're doing it... Not that I'd know! :P

Re:Masturbating.

[Weaselmancer]

I believe the term you're looking for is a Stranger. =)

Re:Masturbating.

[Poromenos1]

Yes!! I was wondering what movie I had seen it in :P

more technical article

[Formica]

Here's an article with a little more details on the technical end:

Rewired, amputee lifts arm with mind

Relocated arm nerves

[nizo]

Sullivan's prosthesis has a computer in the forearm that is wired to a mechanical hand and to a "plunger" device on his chest. The hand sends signals up the wires to the plunger, which pushes the skin. That stimulates the nerves in his chest to transmit sensations to the brain as if the nerves were still connected to his real hand.
On Wednesday, when Kuiken touched a spot on Sullivan's chest, Sullivan said: "Oh, that's right between the finger and thumb on the back side of the hand."
If Kuiken touches one of Sullivan's prosthetic fingers, Sullivan can feel it and say which finger it is.

Wow. I just know he is glad he can still play the "pull my finger" game with his grandkids.

The 'burning' question still remains...

[Mikey Rowan]

Does he run linux?

Obligatory Red Dwarf Scene

[Cr0w T. Trollbot]

KRYTEN: Okay, now let's recap: the limb is connected to neurons which run up to the left hemisphere of your brain, which controls the right side of your body. Now, all you have to do is merely command the arm to do something, and it obeys. Now, let's practice. Right, concentrate, sir. I want you to think: "arm - pick up the ball".

LISTER: Okay.

KRYTEN: Now just think: "I will pick up the ball"

LISTER: I will pick up the ball.

KRYTEN: That's right, good, now, concentrate.

LISTER: *I will pick up the ball*.

KRYTEN: Okay, now *really* think: Hand --

LISTER: I will pick up the ball.

KRYTEN: -- pick up the ball. That's right, that's right.

LISTER: *Pick up the ball*.

KRYTEN: Pick up the ball. Hand, pick up the ball! That's right, now *keep* going, sir! Pick up the ball! Now, focus down onto that and keep the thought, sir! Hand, pick up the ball!

LISTER grunts, effort twisting his feature as the hand lies motionless

KRYTEN: That's right, sir, now keep going, now *really think*, now. Hand, pick up the ball! Now let's really get it going, sir!

LISTER: Pick up the ball! *Pick up the ball*!

KRYTEN: REALLY START TO GO NOW, SIR!

LISTER: HAND, PICK UP THE BALL

KRYTEN: NOW LET'S KEEP MOVING! KEEP ON, SIR, YOU *CAN* DO IT!

LISTER: HAND, PICK UP THE BALL!

KRYTEN: YOU'RE GOING TO MOVE THAT HAND, SIR! YOU'RE *GOING* TO MOVE IT! MOVE THE HAND, SIR!! LISTER: HAND! PICK UP THE BALL!! PICK UP THE BALL!!

KRYTEN: YES SIR! YES! WE'RE STARTING TO MOVE, NOW! YES! IT'S DEFINITELY MOVING, SIR! YES!! Oh! Bravo, sir!!

LISTER grabs the ball and sets it three or four inches away.

- Crow T. Trollbot

jerking off....

[super_ogg]

That's all he wants the arm to be able to do without tearing his dick off.
ogg

But will it let him...

[Tenebrious1]

Two way communication with prosthetic devices allows man who lost both arms in an accident to feel hot and cold, to sense objects and to actually move the prosthetic device to pick things up and put them down.

But will it let him to type in his login and password so he can read the story about himself?

Here's the story at Yahoo.

Where did they find his penis?

[CyricZ]

Where did they find his penis? And what caused it to go missing in the first place? Did they reattach his actual penis, or was it a prosthetic binary-temperature device like the one described in this topic's article?

Re:Where did they find his penis?

[koreaman]

1) His gf cut it off
2) She flushed it down the toilet
3) They found it, presumably in the sewers
4) They put it back on

Without a sense of touch in the penis or the hand?

[CyricZ]

Do you prefer not feeling your hand on the penis, or not feeling the feelings of the penis in your hand?

Feedback is an important breakthrough

[Weaselmancer]

Two way communication with the prosthetic is a huge breakthrough! Glad to see this is becoming possible.

Without this kind of feedback, control becomes...very difficult. For example, think of the cruise control in a car. You can make a decent one with a pair of opamps. The (oversimplified) way it works is that it takes the speed you're going and finds the difference between that and the speed you'd like to be going and uses that difference to work out how much to push in your accelerator.

Now try to work out how to do one if you're not allowed to know how fast the car is already going. Cut the two way communication, and it becomes much harder to do.

Resistance is Futile!

[HaFBaKeD]

We will be assimilated!

Re:Prosthetic brain?

[Darth_brooks]

More like one of those instants where your brain, while processing the signals you've just sent to your appendages, says to itself:

Fuck. This guy's an idiot.

I've done stupid things with electricty. Similar things. Not once, but twice, I've touched both metal ends of a Flourescent light tube while the light was on. Once while a box cutter was in my hand, touching the metal end of one of the lights. Not me showing off being an idiot, just having one of those beautiful moments where Darwin should have taken over. My hands got moving faster than my mind could slow them down.

This guy was probably up on a cherry picker. His weight shifted, a gust of wind came along, etc and as he started to fall his insticts yelled:

GRAB SOMETHING!

meanwhile his mind, not really paying attention sees what's happening and says:

Nono don't grab th.....nevermind.

Yeah, the guy probably screwed up somewhere down the line but Shit will invariably, consistently, and always, Happen.

It most likely runs vxWorks.

[CyricZ]

It most likely runs the embedded vxWorks operating system. Linux would probably be far too featureful for a system like this. While Linux is better for larger embedded systems, like PDAs, DVD players, and so on, extremely small systems like this can very often have literally no extra overhead. That is why a very stripped down, minimal system like vxWorks is used.

MY PROF WORKED THERE!

[onion_breath]

What a surprise to read some slashdot today and find that sorty posted. I attended UNB Mechanical Engineering and one of my profs actually worked there. I remember doing a course writing 3D control software for movement of a PUMA arm stored in the lab. It's good to see some print for little old New Brunswick, and good to see some benefits for people who've lost limbs.

Pain?

[Malicious]

Where is the threshold? At what point does hot, turn to ouch? You could feel hot, but would you feel burning? Would your brain realize that the heat is not doing any damage?

Re:Pain?

[CoffeeJedi]

maybe there's a sensitivity setting
or pehaps the feeling isn't exactly like that of "real" hot or cold, and you could train yourself to get past the initial reflex

(what? RTFA? i don't wanna...)

Re:Pain?

[Packet Pusher]

No, he was right. They are tapping into the nerves. Your brain will react just as if it were a real arm.

If it's hot, you would yank your fake arm back involuntary, if it is really to hot you'd feel the pain and drop what you were holding. Your central nervous system will never adjust to the loss of a limb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_limb

As someone who had his leg amputated 20 years ago I am qualified to discuss this from first hand experience. I can still curl my missing toes and feel the resistance from doing it.

Re:Pain?

[fucksl4shd0t]

As someone who had his leg amputated 20 years ago I am qualified to discuss this from first hand experience. I can still curl my missing toes and feel the resistance from doing it.

Don't you mean "first leg experience?"

Re:Pain?

[Packet Pusher]

Don't screw with bionic people, we don't all tolerate normals very well.

Re:Pain?

[fucksl4shd0t]

You know, one of my favorite lines ever in a movie is in Buffy the Vampire Slayer when the vampire says "There's nothing you can do that we can't do better" or something like that, and Buffy says "Clap!".

Heh, 'cause, you know, earlier in the movie he got an arm cut off...

Re:Prosthetic brain?

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

I don't mean to sound like an insentive asshole

You definitely should consider being fitted with a prosthetic asshole that can feel hot and cold and sense objects.

Long distance feeling

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can have an artificial sensation, there is no requirement that it be something local that you're feeling.

If you extend this technology, you could entirely remove the requirement to travel. Simply rent a remote control tourist and you will completely be wherever you want. Cool. On the other hand, the matrix is getting closer. Uncool.

Re:Long distance feeling

[xuutx]

what are the possiblities of making these wireless?

Re:Long distance feeling

[visionlink]

when these guys figure out the genital nerves, IRC is going to get *really* interesting.

Usage stats

[Quiet_Desperation]

"For some reason his right arm is showing more wear than the left," said Dr. Todd Kuiken. "Especially around the fingers and palm. We're not sure what's up with that."

Re:Usage stats

[j3tt]

If he showed more wear on one arm he would have posted a comment here on /. After all that is what 90% of Slashdot readers consider as "sex life" .... errr ... right?

Re:Usage stats

[Quiet_Desperation]

What's sad is I took the low humor road, and got +4 Funny. :)

Bionic Commando

[noidentity]

Bah, tell me when the arm extends twenty feet and I can swing across buildings.

Re:Bionic Commando

[FusionDragon2099]

I never really enjoyed that game. Mostly because I'm used to games where, you know, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO FREAKIN' JUMP.

kind of off topic but relevent

[baloo63]

my dad has lost one arm and the use of another arm in a hay baler. while i am always excited to see this kind of technology advancing, it is obviously aways away from practical use for a farmer. my dad has recently expressed alot of interest in using a computer, does anyone know anything that would make the computing experience easier for someone with no mobility in limbs?

Re:kind of off topic but relevent

[drmike0099]

There's a fair amount of stuff that can be voice-activated these days (the Mac I'm writing this on has a lot on it by default) so I imagine that depending on what he wanted to do on the computer, he might be able to go that route. I've also seen foot pedal input devices, although I imagine that those are really limited. I haven't actually used any of these things, but that might give you a start.

Re:kind of off topic but relevent

[sharkb8]

Try voice recognition.

Or just put a pencil in his mouth and let him type everything in with the pencil.

Re:kind of off topic but relevent

[Mechcozmo]

OS X has nearly full control using just your voice. Check out:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/speech/
http://www.apple.com/macosx/overview/aquauserinter face.html
And for a general overview, http://www.apple.com/macosx/

a hand is good, but

[CoffeeJedi]

i want a lazer cannon built into my arm! and if it can't be one unit, i at least want to the ability to switch between hand and cannon.

i've always said that if i had to get a prosthetic arm, i'd rather get one that functions well with a cool metalic sci-fi look, than one that just looks realistic but didn't do much

Gentlemen:

[KinashiArkaiyen]

We can rebuild him; we have the technology. But I don't want to spend a lot of money... [/familyguy]

Re:Sad day for freedom in the USA

[richdun]

I know what I'm going to do.

Get a bionic arm.

Jesse Sullivan on Celebrity Jeopardy..

[Man in Spandex]

Trebek: No one knows! No one can figure out if the hot tea is hot or cold?
Sullivan: Can I touch the iced tea
Trebek: NO! ITS HOT TEA!
Sullivan: Then I have no idea

Re:Jesse Sullivan on Celebrity Jeopardy..

[WD_40]

Alex Trebek: Let's just go to Hot or Cold for $400. And it's a Video Daily Double. Here goes nothing. Please take a look at your video monitors.

[ screen shows Ricky Martin and two dancers. They start dancing. ]

Ricky Martin: It's me! Come on, Ricky Martin! Come on! [ music starts ]. Oh my! In this cup there's some hot tea! It's hot hot hot! Watch! [ takes a sip ] Yow! Hot hot hot! So the answer is: Hot hot hot! or cold. Hot hot hot! or cold. Come on! Hot hot hot!

[ video fades ]. [ no one buzzes in. ]

Alex Trebek: None of you knows. No one can figure out if the hot tea is hot or cold. [Reeves buzzes in.] Thank God! Keanu Reeves.

Keanu Reeves: Is it iced tea?

Alex Trebek: No! It's hot tea!

Keanu Reeves: Well, then I have no idea.

Photos

[JonTurner]

It's worth pointing out that the story liked by parent post includes photos.

Visual...

[batquux]

From the article:
"To demonstrate, Sullivan tried to pick up a water glass from a table. The first time, he dropped it. The second time, he wrapped his prosthetic fingers around it and picked it up, then set it back down."

zzzt ZZZZt Zzzzt *crunch* ... "Groovy"

Correction:

[game kid]

"We can rebuild him. We have the technology.
We have the capability to make the world's first Bionic man.
In fact, we have some good news.

"We just saved a bunch of money on our car insurance
by switching to GEICO."

--The Six Million Dollar Invoice

Re:Where do I sign up?

[CoffeeJedi]

hell yeah!
interchangable hand, grappling hook, and laser cannon!
damn that would be sweet......

Step 3

[JThundley]

Step 3: Profit!

Re:Prosthetic brain?

[Linker3000]

Where I did my electronics engineering apprenticeship, we had a guy who had suffered a similar accident. His whole nervous system was shot to pieces and he had to wear tinted glasses because his eyes became sensitive to light. He had two claws for arms...and worked as a draughtsman in the drawing office!

One day he was in front of me at a drinks vending machine and he asked me to put the coins in for him as this was about the only thing he couldn't do with his claws. He punched the buttons and out came a cup of coffee. Just as he went to pick it up, the plastic 'splash door' on the front of the cup area (which was stuck up) came down and knocked the cup, spilling coffee over his claw.

"Damn", he said, "but at least I didn't get burned!".

He was a really nice guy.

Re:Prosthetic brain?

[Bill Wong]

Parent is modded funny, but, this is exactly what happened to the guy.
Nowadays, instead of using a 'cherry picker' to do work on high-voltage lines, a helicopter and a harness is generally used, as helicopters tend to be more mobile and quicker... (and, as a side benefit, this method avoids this exact problem.)

It says a lot about Slashdotters ...

[arhar]

... when in a story like this, that really SHOULD be touching and make you feel excited about human progress, 95% of the (high rated) comments are the smart-ass remarks from cynical assholes and masturbation jokes. Way to go, guys!

Re:It says a lot about Slashdotters ...

[ZosX]

You must be new here.

You mean like this guy in this TV ad?

[antdude]

here.

Tu

[DrewCapu]

Might as well have thrown in a couple more just to round things out:

Two way communication with prosthetic devices allows man who lost two arms in an accident to feel hot and cold, to sense objects and to actually move the prosthetic device to pick things up and to put them down too.

ERROR!

[sum.zero]

leftHand does not know what rightHand is doing - errorx01

sum.zero

Unlimited Strength?

[weszz]

So... am i the only one thinking that with this whole bionic arm deal, that Morpheus could fianlly be right in that you are as strong as you THINK you are? just give the motors tons of power, the metal for the arms very strong and you can start bending metal rods and crushing bricks with your hands, as long as you think you're strong enough...

Re:Where do I sign up?

[sharkb8]

Laser cannon? I'm waiting until the interchangeable arm comes with a "Shark with laser" module. Or at least a "really angry sea bass" attachment.

Bad arm/torrent joke.

[doswarrior]

"while Softwire Inc. (Middleboro, Mass.) provided a graphical user interface for external programming (via PC) of the Boston Digital Arm.

I can't wait till I get my hands on that torrent file.

HALO?

[Mechcozmo]

Will this allow for something like the Master Chief? Basically, extremely strong? If you can have the ability to control your 'power' to your arm, does this mean a bank robber could set their arms to 500% and then just rip a safe to pieces? Or what about a person?

Re:Sad day for freedom in the USA

[Rycross]

You mean Eminent Domain? That thing we've had for a long time? That many other countries have as well?

cyberpunk

[panzersex]

sweet! now i can larp cyberpunk 2020!

More info and pictures

[loopdloop]

Here are some more pictures of Jessie Sullivan that show what the prosthetics look like.

http://www.mala.bc.ca/~soules/medi402/brown/cyborg .htm

Video Clip

[D H NG]

From Newshour

Saw this a decade ago....

[Yo Grark]

Ok, not to be a stickler, but I saw this technology almost a decade ago on an old PBS documentary.

Maybe it's cool and all, but the research and everything is at least 2 decades old!

Yo Grark

Octopus Arms Next?

[obender]

Full implementation here

6 Million Euro Man?

[WillAffleckUW]

what do you think - can we rebuild him? More in touch with his feelings, able to feel around in the dark, ...

Re:Prosthetic brain?

[NeuroManson]

Must... Resist... Obvious... Gay... Joke!!!

How about a direct neural connection

[Digital Pizza]

This is a great development for amputees. It's a very clever "cheat", as someone in the article said.

What I'd love to see would be a prosthesis with a direct neural link to the control computer; no need for electomechanical contrivances for sensation, and high dexterity.

Still sounds like Sci-Fi, but a little less so now. I wonder what the issues are with that kind of technology that's keeping it back?

Re:How about a direct neural connection

[tedrlord]

Nothing sounds much like sci-fi when it happens. Does cloning sound like sci-fi anymore? Genetically engineered plants? I mean, they're using nanotechnology to make golf clubs now. Nothing makes science boring like making it useful.

Re:It depends...

[vertinox]

If those fake limbs can rip off real ones, then I'm sure the answer is yes.

Yes, but...

[mangu]

...if it goes up to $6,000,000, does he get to fuck Farrah Fawcett? No, no, wait, let's have time travel first. Better go back to 1975 to do this

Let's just hope that....

[imstanny]

Next week's headlines won't read: "Bionic man circumcized after unsuccessful attempting to pleasure himself."

Accidents happen, you insensitive clod!

[mangu]

Was this one of those famous, "Hold my beer and watch this!" situations that seem to have become so well known?

Most probably not. There was a similar case in an electric power company where I used to work years ago. This is how it happened: A maintenance crew was doing a job in a 180MW generator in a power plant. While an engineer was holding simultaneously the 13800 volts busbar, with a short-circuit current of 20000 amps, with one hand and the grounded rack with the other hand, someone closed the breaker. The engineer's arms were instantly carbonized, he died three days later.

This accident wasn't caused by stupidity, but by bad coordination. After this, the company instituted a security measure to avoid it happening again. The breaker controls in all power stations were fitted with a protecting bar with several holes matching a stud in the panel. Everyone working in the generator puts a padlock through one of the hole pairs, and keeps the key. The breaker can be closed again only after every padlock has been removed.

Arm Control Software - GPL

[Cross-Threaded]

The Right to Bear Arms, v2.0 License: GPL

Change Log:

V 2.0 Improved Algorithm for Friend vs Foe Detection 75% Accuracy Achieved

V 1.9 Added Laser Sight to Radius

V 1.8 Camouflage Skinning option added

V 1.7 Bayonet Interface now retracts

V 1.6 Bugfix - Wife Induced Anger No Longer Causes Cannon to Fire

V 1.5 Kevlar Skin Added

V 1.4 OSHA Safety Stickers Approved

V 1.3 Back Pack Bullet Feed Hopper Available

V 1.2 Bugfix - Trigger Mechanism No Longer Activated by 2.4 MHz Radio Activity

V 1.1 Removed Insurance From File Menu - Lloyds will not Underwrite Policy due to Mis-use.

V 1.0 Bear Arms Initial Release - No Flaws Found in Laboratory Testing (Mice)

ObFamilyGuy

[sharkey]

We can rebuild him, we have the technology......but I don't want to spend a lot of money.

Is this old news?

[MauriceV]

Here's an article about the same guy from CNN two years ago.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/09/25/bionic.arm/

Absolutely possible!

[Hurricane78]

I saw a documentation where they connected an arm to an ape's brain and after a while his brain threated it like a normal part of the body. I think our prain is not limited to a specific body design. It just has inputs and outputs (sense/nerves) and then tries to figure out how they are useful to do somthing useful. I also think that's the way a baby learns using his body. The only difference is that we already have all the neurons pretty much trained/connected for a specific purpose (controlling our body), so changing will take more time. (of course i mean just the part of the prain that controls the body, but i don't knot the name right now and i'm not a natvie english speaker)

Along those lines...

[dexter riley]

A LOT TO LEARN (R T Kurosaka)

The Materialiser was completed.

Ned Quinn stood back, wiped his hands, and admired the huge bank of dials, light and switches. Several years and many fortunes had gone into this project. Finally it was ready.

Ned placed the metal skullcap on his head and plugged the wires into the control panel. He turned the switch to ON and spoke:

"Pound Note."

There was a whirring sound. In the Receiver a piece of paper appeared. Ned inspected it. Real.

"Martini", he said.

A whirring sound. A puddle formed in the Receiver. Ned cursed silently. He had a lot to learn.

"A bottle of beer", he said.

The whirring sound was followed by the appearance of the familiar brown bottle. Ned tasted the contents and grinned.

Chuckling, he experimented further.

Ned enlarged the Receiver and prepared for his greatest experiment. He switched on the Materialiser, took a deep breath and said,

"Girl."

The whirring sound swelled and faded. In the Receiver stood a lovely girl. She was naked. Ned had not asked for clothing. She had freckles, a brace and pigtails. She was eight years old.

"Hell!" Said Quinn.

Whirr

The fireman found two charred skeletons in the smouldering rubble.

Nerves sensing

[SeanDuggan]

I can't answer from a biomedical engineering standpoint, but from a physiological standpoint, the nerves in your skin detect only two things, heat and pressure. Everything else is interpretation of those.

Exactly {EOM}

[SeanDuggan]

Really, there is no subject in here, although Slashdot requires me to put one in...

Support Issues

[SeanDuggan]

As haphazard as bodily construction sometimes seems to us (Why build a recreational area next door to a waste dump?), there is a reason for the existing skeletal and muscular structure. You need a lot of support to properly manipulate your limbs. What do you plan on attaching this third arm to? Planning to build another shoulder joint? Create new shoulder blades? A new clavicle attached lower on the spine? Where are the muscles going to go and to what will they attach? By the time you finish adding an extra arm, I suspect you will have practically rebuilt the torso.

Och... and don't even get me into the sci-fi phenomena of the guy with a bionic arm being able to easily heft tons. The rest of the body can't support that kind of weight, let alone the sheer problem with the immediate point of connection between the bionic and organic parts.

The Technology Advance

[SeanDuggan]

As I understand it, this case is notable for a handful (no pun intended) of reasons:

1. This guy lost his arms up to the shoulder. Most nerve-sensing prosthetic arms rely on the bicep and tricep muscles, as it is not feasible to directly interface the nerves with the equipment as of this time. In this case, they were able to reroute the nerves to another seemingly unrelated muscle group in the chest.
2. The nerve part of the process is obviously getting better.
3. The amount of feedback he's getting from this arm's sensors is orders of magnitude greater than what was available before.

A good deal of this is simply better technology, everything from lighter materials to using a computer to sort out signals. *shrug* No, it's not revolutionary, but it is evolutionary and the goal of making a replacement arm as good as a real one looks like it may be coming into sight.

Material and practical limitations

[SeanDuggan]

First of all, aren't robbers people? If you prick them, do they not bleed? But enough sniping...

There are some structural limitations for partial replacements. An extra-strong grip wouldn't be that difficult, as all of the mechanics are located in the wrist and hand area. Something like lifting a heavy weight, though, and not only your arm is bearing the strain, but so is the shoulder (or whereever you attach the things) and the rest of the body. It would probably be more likely that you rip an artifical arm out of the socket trying than to actually rip apart the safe.

The other general issue with mechanical amplification is the lack of feedback. Look at the discussions of exoskeletons and you'll find that it's not as easy as multiplying the force or speed of a motion. On the other hand, with the neural feedback they're getting with this guy, it may yet be possible to solve the feedback problem.

Re:Material and practical limitations

[Mechcozmo]

Having no feedback in some situations may be a good thing... like if the hand was crushed under debris. So if you could turn off the feedback, it could possibly be a benefit and a detriment.

Circumstances of Accident

[SeanDuggan]

Two of the articles linked say that he accidentally touched a live wire with both arms. One has said that he was repairing a transformer when lightning struck it. *shrug* Doing electrical work when lightning is in the area isn't exactly the brightest move either, but I'm sure you, like most people, curse every minute that a blown transformer deprives you of power and people on life support probably like it even less.

Re:Prosthetic brain?

[danila]

I was curious and googled for this guy's name. Here is what I found:

During a vicious electrical storm in his hometown of Dayton, Tennessee, he went out to fix a blown transformer. Lightning hit the transformer and burned both of his arms off to the shoulders.

I guess you can blame the guy for going outside during a storm, but then again, he was just trying to do his difficult and risky job.

The linked page also has some amazing images, including this one

Pictures and movie of the the Bionic Arm in action

[risforrocket]

You can learn more about Jesse Sullivan, the "World's First Bionic Man" and see a movie of him using the bionic device at http://www.ric.org/bionic/index.php/