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Designing an OS for Blind/Deaf Users?

Sushant Bhatia asks: "I work for a team developing technology for individuals who are blind and I have had the opportunity to use some screen reading software and while there have been leaps of progress it is still quite tedious to use, and not at all user friendly. One of my managers recently posed an interesting question for me: 'How would you design an OS from scratch that would target individuals who are blind and/or deaf?' What about inputs such as keyboards or refreshable Braille devices?"

356 comments

  1. One way to cut costs by bravehamster · · Score: 4, Funny

    Well, at least for BlindOS you don't have to worry about writing video drivers...

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    1. Re:One way to cut costs by Tebriel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unless your tech support/any other user of the machine isn't blind.

      --
      The Blaster Master Fighting for Truth, Justice, and Evil Pie since 1979
    2. Re:One way to cut costs by rootofevil · · Score: 1, Insightful

      so youre saying people who are not blind would be completely incapable of using a machine that did not have a video interface?

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    3. Re:One way to cut costs by Decameron81 · · Score: 1

      And give up playing Doom 3...???

      --
      diegoT
    4. Re:One way to cut costs by pizen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And not having to power a laptop screen means you should get great battery life.

    5. Re:One way to cut costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would think writing the video to braille output wrapper driver would be the biggest and most important part of the special OS ????

    6. Re:One way to cut costs by SnprBoB86 · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's always SSH, remote desktop, and equivalents...

      --
      http://brandonbloom.name
    7. Re:One way to cut costs by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

      And give up playing Doom 3...???

      Heck, with a braille device that would get you REALLY dizzy... unless of course it's designed in MATRIX-style :)

    8. Re:One way to cut costs by mattspammail · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Cut costs there, sure. But other possibilities exist. Would you really need as fast a processor on a box like this? Your output needs/speeds may not be as high as the needs of a traditional user. I am not a deaf or blind user (IANABODU henceforth), but I'm assum... stating that these should be different machines. Think of the possible needs/lack thereof.

      Visually impaired: video drivers possibly not needed; traditional 3D gaming not an option; output devices less resource intensive (no monitor may be needed); no traditional high-resource GUI needs (skinning, fading, etc). There may however be some needs that are not listed here. For example, if you have a visually impaired audiophile who enjoys running resource-intensive software apps, a beast of a computer might still be what the geek ordered. Again, IANABODU.

      Audio-impaired users would have needs largely similar to those of traditional users, and perhaps then some. Either way, speakers may not be needed, or sound cards, etc. Since sound is included on so many mobos lately, it's probably more expensive to remove it than it is to keep it. Again, IANABODU.

      Another statement that should be made is that the typical user doesn't even use a fraction of what their computer can do. How many users do you know who purchase 3.x Ghz wintel boxes, just because their 2.4 Ghz is a year and a half old, just to camp in front of it and use IE/Outlook/Solitaire?

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    9. Re:One way to cut costs by vettemph · · Score: 1, Funny

      > There's always SSH

      I don't think it's funny to SHH! a deaf mute.

      --
      The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
    10. Re:One way to cut costs by idonthack · · Score: 1

      traditional 3D gaming not an option [for blind people]

      Actually, you're wrong.
      Okay, it's not traditional. But it's freaking awesome.
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    11. Re:One way to cut costs by idonthack · · Score: 2, Funny

      Poo. My sig broke. It's supposed to say:
      What subliminal message?

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    12. Re:One way to cut costs by JPortal · · Score: 1

      I can see the headlines... "Eye Transplant company boosts laptop battery life by 200%!"

    13. Re:One way to cut costs by Aeiri · · Score: 3, Insightful

      so youre saying people who are not blind would be completely incapable of using a machine that did not have a video interface?

      I can't read braille, can you?

    14. Re:One way to cut costs by joebok · · Score: 1

      If it was one of those brailboards, I'd have a heck of time with it - even with my glasses!

    15. Re:One way to cut costs by kinzillah · · Score: 1

      But you have to power the braile terminal, which has lots of little electromagnets.

      --
      Douglas P. Price
    16. Re:One way to cut costs by vettemph · · Score: 1

      And since there is no brail porn you don't need to support the "joystick" either.

      --
      The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
    17. Re:One way to cut costs by shmlco · · Score: 1

      As far as speed and sound and all those other things you're cutting out, systems for the blind depend rather heavily on text-to-speech and speech recognition systems...

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    18. Re:One way to cut costs by Hymer · · Score: 0

      I do not agree... the system should be able to present graphical output for anyone.
      The problem is not the OS... the problem is the (G)UI...
      Someone said once that a picture tells more than 100 0 words... how do you make a useful picture for a blind person ?
      How do you represent colors ? They dosen't probably matter for the blind guy but we would love some on what he produces for us...

    19. Re:One way to cut costs by QuaZar666 · · Score: 1

      no, but if i needed to learn it to use a system, then I would have no choice but to either learn it, or fail trying.

    20. Re:One way to cut costs by mattspammail · · Score: 1

      Happy to stand corrected, much like your sig.

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    21. Re:One way to cut costs by mattspammail · · Score: 1

      Good thing I'm not in marketing, huh?

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    22. Re:One way to cut costs by xENoLocO · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uhh... wouldnt it be easier to just add speakers?

      --
      "The need to build the internet comes from something inside us, something programmed... something we can't resist."
    23. Re:One way to cut costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why hasnt Microsoft gotten into this already? The voices on the JAWS software sound mechanical and the way they interpret data leaves alot to be desired, c'mon Microsoft how about a decent OS for those who are challenged, are there any open source alternatives?

    24. Re:One way to cut costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Geez guys. This is slashdot, remember? Where the hell are the geeks all of a sudden. Can anyone here say "remote management"?

      How many large network admins do you think really traipse all over the country (or even to other countries) to make changes to every single machine on a network locally?

    25. Re:One way to cut costs by legirons · · Score: 1

      Morse code command-line laptop?

      With just one button for input, and one buzzer for output, you could probably make a 'real' computer the size of a mobile phone.

      Just need to think of some morse-code codes for F1 and all the other non-alphabetic stuff that computers use.

    26. Re:One way to cut costs by FCKGW · · Score: 1
      The deaf people I know just use regular computers like hearing people -- they just don't bother to plug in the speakers on their own machines. There's just a few things that need to be changed, like beep codes, although some manufacturers like EPoX and MSI use LEDs instead. Videos and flash animations need to have subtitles as an option (maybe some do already; i don't know). Some game cutscenes I've noticed are already subtitled by default -- Grand Theft Auto and Zero Wing (heh) come to mind immediately -- but sometimes gameplay requires the player to know where sounds such as gunfire are coming from (which is why I wear headphones for FPS games). Maybe a Halo-style radar would be useful to show where sounds are coming from as an option.

      The real challenge is making computers for blind users. From what I hear, current screen readers and such hardware is rediculously overpriced and awkward to use. On the web, there are way too many stupid people making websites that don't conform to W3C specifications and misuse structural elements like

      , , and especially . One of the major reasons to use HTML only for document structure and CSS for layout is so that the HTML doesn't get cluttered with layout elements that a screen reader has to read. Webmasters all too often forget to include alternate text with images -- how else is a blind user going to know what your pretty graphical buttons say? Personally, I make sure all my sites render well in Lynx, so I can see if it's possible to navigate with text only, as well as run every page through the W3C validator.

      --
      It's an operating system, not a religion.
  2. um... by ed.han · · Score: 2, Interesting

    maybe i'm being obtuse, but wouldn't the sole useful input method for the blind be verbal? as for the deaf: why would you not use a GUI? this seems too simple so what am i missing?

    ed

    1. Re:um... by uberdave · · Score: 1

      Many blind people can type just fine.

    2. Re:um... by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

      Why wouldn't blind people use keyboards as input? Verbal input has a long way to go and a blind person can type just as fast as a regular person.

      --

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      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    3. Re:um... by decipher_saint · · Score: 1

      Put them together and whoa! You get RegularOS!

      --
      crazy dynamite monkey
    4. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keyboards work quite well for blind input -- how often do you look at the keyboard when typing?

      Additionally, software like JAWS can be configured to read each key as it is typed, so typos can be corrected immediately.

    5. Re:um... by ne0n · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've seen a blind guy type over 100wpm, no errors. also, his screen reader sounds like a mad speak&spell on crack, it's so ridiculously fast. Much faster, in fact, than most sighted people can read.

      --
      $ :(){ :|:& };:
    6. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wouldn't the sole useful input method for the blind be verbal?

      Blind people can type just fine. You need to be concerned with output and not requiring a mouse for anything.

      Here's a question. In order to post this message and prove I'm not a bot, I have to look at an image and key 7 letters. How is a blind person supposed to do that?

    7. Re:um... by marcantonio · · Score: 1

      There's also touch, hence the brail comment.

      Smell and taste might not work out so good though... Although insects use smell to communicate remarkable well.

    8. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i think the blind would still need keyboard input as most verbal systems just arent up to par, nor always practical, output though would likely be a mixture of audio and braille...
      i could see it being hard to give feedback to the blind, i mean you would almost need a system to associate sounds with OS functionality... like i dunno i envision typing in an command to open a program, hearing a distinct beep only associated with that program, and then take it from there? i dunno rough question...
      as far as the deaf i agree with you, i dont see how they would have too much trouble with a modern GUI OS

    9. Re:um... by MisterLawyer · · Score: 1
      wouldn't the sole useful input method for the blind be verbal?

      You are forgetting tactile.

      Do blind people not have fingers? Can they not type just like you or I?

      Same goes for output: I have a blind friend who can read braille faster than a voice synthesizer can speak text.

    10. Re:um... by pizzaman100 · · Score: 3, Informative
      One incorrect assumption about the blind is that they are blind. ;) There are a large spectrum of 'legally blind' people who do in fact have some usable vision. They won't be driving cars, but they can user computers. For such people, visual aids are helpful (magnification software, or really large resolution like 320x240).

      My four year old daughter is legally blind, but she is learning how to use a regular computer just fine. It's amazing to watch. In the mean time, I'm working on having the government buy a really large plasma display to 'facilitate' my daughter's learning environment. :)

    11. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I have been working on a sophisticated pattern analysis program for just that problem! For, er, blind people, that's it.

    12. re:um... by ed.han · · Score: 2, Insightful

      uberdave: yeah, i'm sure they can, but when you come right down to it, speech is still much faster. i seem to recall 40 WPM being considered the desirable benchmark for anything other than executive assistants, etc. i type at 85-90. but that's nothing compared to the speed of speech, which IIRC can run from speeds of 110-120 WPM. why limit the user?

      here's a question though: instead of the folder analogy, would everything have a flat file structure, with users performing search queries for desired files, etc.?

      ed

    13. Re:um... by SeventyBang · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You aren't missing anything. Someone got a little giddy over thinking of something interesting and jumped the gun.

      I know several deaf people who don't care about mods to a GUI, including Windows.

      When it comes to the blind, however, it doesn't mean it can't be a GUI, but there still has to be the correct UI. There are already a number of products which some of the blind people I know (one owns his own recruiting and consulting firm) and have said they don't need a change for most of what they do.

      So no, I don't know why the original focus was on an OS. About the only OS which really worried about the UI is BEOS as it was designed for multimedia.

      Maybe we should file a "request for clarification" from the author as to why they meant OS instead of UI?

    14. Re:um... by Txiasaeia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not the user that's limited, but the speech recognition software. When I type, I can be reasonably sure that what I'm typing will actually appear on the screen (even with my eyes closed or looking away). Voice recognition, on the other hand, isn't as accurate, and any increase in speed gained by using speech will be lost for a for a blind person when they need to get the computer to read back what you've written and manually correct it.

      --
      Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
    15. Re:um... by pizzaman100 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Another note: a good Windows utility for completely blind users is Jaws. It is a speech software utility for Windows. (example: to navigate, the software verbally says: 'start', 'programs', accesories', etc. I saw a demonstraton of the software by a blind man, and he kicked ass (kinda like the hacker dude in Sneakers). Anyway, he could navigate way quicker using the keyboard than the typical sighted windows user could.

    16. Re:um... by Pengunea · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As the parent article states, "blind and/or deaf". That possible "and" puts an interesting twist on things that blows "sole useful input" right out of the water.

      Yes, blind and visually impaired people can use vocal interfaces to use computers. Personally as a legally blind programmer I can't STAND vocal interfaces. They bloat the amount of time it takes me to tab through code by a factor of at least three. So I make do with using the PC at a lower resolution. I'm one of the lucky ones out there who can do this with no problems.

      As well there are braille-based systems available for completely blind induviduals and these sometimes also work for deafblind folks. There are also ways to adapt current OS'es for deaf induviduals so that any audial cues are represented onscreen. I'm not familiar of any tools that can process an audio file and create captioning though, which is a shame as that'd rock.

      My point boils down to there aren't suitable OS options available for deaf, blind, AND/or deafblind induviduals. As the BBC reported working with technology can be an excessively frustrating situation for deafblind induviduals. In addition when you want to create a solution for deaf, blind, AND/or deafblind induviduals you have the issue of no two snowflakes being the same so to speak. On top of that it has to be easy to use. For those of us who can't/don't want to spend an hour just trying to read the first email in our inbox it has to be fast to use as well. There's also considerations such as multi-format training materials, child-sized input devices, learning curves due to induviduals being used to using other devices, etc. The list goes on.

      This, folks is a REAL challenge. One I hope someone can rise to and overcome.

      --
      Starkle, starkle, little twink.
    17. Re:um... by tepples · · Score: 1

      And how can a typical blind person afford a copy of Jaws? What job can a blind person do before beginning to use a computer?

    18. Re:um... by uberdave · · Score: 1

      Although there have been significant advances, speech recognition is still a dream. (Feel free to post some links to the contrary. I'd be glad to look them over.)

      As far as storage, why would you need to change anything? The folder analogy is, after all, only an analogy. One could use a "slash" notation like linux uses: (ie /home/uberdave/documents/resume.txt). Text is easily "brailled".

    19. Re:um... by Kirth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why the hell would I use a window-environment at all?

      80xSomething, textmode. The same as the braille-device has. Various consoles, a screenreader in the background which starts reading on a specific key on any console and in any program (be that shell, editor or webbrowser); maybe a hacked up "screen"-program could do that, that would also allow for dozens of virtual terminals without logging in dozens of times. I've seen a *real hacker* work on a vt220 with screen, slrn, bitchx, mutt, dozens of consoles, vim, ssh. Incredibly fast.

      In fact, most unices would already do nicely, I suspect, given some nice text-to-speech software and good drivers for braille-hardware.

      --
      "The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
    20. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine inputting command lines or accessing menus solely by speech. Keyboard input and shortcuts are much more efficient in these cases.

    21. Re:um... by srothroc · · Score: 1
      I agree with the parent.

      Speaking as a person with what is categorized as severe hearing loss who has a cochlear implant in his left ear, Windows (and any other OS, for that matter) works fine for me, whether it's command line or GUI. In fact, the only thing I do to make it a bit more useful is turn off every single sound that any program can make, as they interfere with my ability to comprehend normal speech.

      For example, if I were using AIM and talking with someone in real life, the beeps and sound effects it produces make it almost impossible for me to follow conversations.

      Windows Media Player and Media Player Classic have both done wonderful jobs of supporting soft subtitles for movies, whether they're toggleable subtitles or closed captioning (not the same thing!). I can't say the same for VLC, I'm afraid.

      So all I can really say in terms of designing a better interface for the deaf is to make it easy to turn off all sounds. Do not yield to the impulse to make everything loud so that a deaf person can hear it - it doesn't work quite like that. Fortunately that popular belief seems to be going the way of the dodo...

    22. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do sell an OS to someone who doesn't value bells and whistles?

    23. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Geeze, you're right, that thing is $900 for "standard" and $1000 for "professional" (read: expensive for shitty windows platforms, more expensive for the non-crippled windows platforms).

      This is certainly not aimed at some guy who codes for a hobby and wants to keep coding after losing his eyesight in a tragic BOFHball accident. It's clearly aimed at companies looking to not be sued by handicapped people.

    24. Re:um... by CableModemSniper · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, I can see it now. And exactly how will the TTS software pronouce ls /usr/local/etc?

      --
      Why not fork?
    25. Re:um... by pizzaman100 · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's expensive, but in a lot of cases the end user is not paying for it. There are foundations and charities that will help pay the cost. And if the user goes to public school, they can probably get the local district to pay for it (The government by law has to facilitate the needs of anyone with a disability).

    26. Re:um... by HillaryWBush · · Score: 1
      I think a rule of thumb for designing new features specifically for the blind is that the addition of the feature does not interfere with the sighted users of the software.

    27. Re:um... by cp.tar · · Score: 1
      One of the ways of communication with the deaf-blind is a tactile language that reminds me - at least the little bit I've seen - of "sticky hands" (chi sau).
      Also, the sign language of the deaf uses certain movements as parts of speech.

      Although most blind people can type very well, and deaf people can see quite clearly, some redesign of input methods probably wouldn't hurt anyone, easpecially the deaf-blind... and probably some "normal" users as well.

      For instance, we could recycle the nearly forgotten 'cyber-gloves' - they could both serve as input devices in the most traditional manner (including serving as a virtual keyboard, probably greatly alleviating the stress on the wrists and, hence, removing the risk of RSI), and as output devices, which I also believe not only the deaf-blind would use.

      For instance, you could feel a pop-up somewhere on your forearm; by ignoring it, it would remain lowered, while by reacting to it you could pop it up... or vice versa.

      Of course, it would be expensive and "non-intuitive"... but who knows; we just might see some of the forgotten SF stuff in a new role.

      --
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    28. Re:um... by vettemph · · Score: 1

      Some folks are blind, deaf and mute at the same time?

      --
      The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
    29. Re:um... by Eideewt · · Score: 1

      Some (I would guess most) TTS software will allow you to define pronunciations for words that need special ones. It could also pronounce letters that don't seem to be words as acronyms, at least making them recognizable. You're likely to get output that makes at least a little sense, with the option to tweak it to taste. I'd like to hear from any actual blind (legally or totally) folks here. What do you want in an OS?

    30. Re:um... by paulymer5 · · Score: 1

      I wonder how many blind posters you may find here, as they may have difficulty proving they are not a script.

    31. Re:um... by Frogbert · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be better if you set the resolution as high as possible but ramped up the DPI setting? That way you would have well defined charicters and no pixilation, but it would still be as large as a 320x240 display.

    32. Re:um... by AaronBrethorst · · Score: 1

      I'm responsible for accessibility and user interface consistency across Visual Studio, hence my interest in this topic

      JAWS isn't the only screen reader package out there. Two others that I come in contact with on a regular basis are Window Eyes (nice guys, btw) and Dolphin.

      It's interesting to note that blind users aren't the only ones who can benefit from screen readers. I was chatting with a program manager with dyslexia recently. She relies on JAWS a good deal of the time; it just makes things easier for her.

      As far as more resources go in terms of Microsoft, Accessibility and everything else I highly recommend checking out these resources:

      Enable

      Sara Ford's old VS Accessibility blog

      the new VS Accessibility blog

      Blind Programming.com (check out the mailing lists too)

      --
      No, but I used to work for Microsoft.
    33. Re:um... by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 1

      I think that's a fundamentally broken way of viewing design. One should never "add features" for the blind; one should create features that don't rely on sight. There are very few components of most major software that can't be represented in a convienient manner in audio or simple text output. Take your typical office applications:

      Word: Primarily text (gee...) with some formatting data. Just as you "glaze over" much of the formatting in "Normal" view (which is mostly forgotten these days), and have all the layout in "Page Layout" view, you can allow the user to choose the level of format detail they read/hear as they view and edit the document. Menus and buttons can be accessed easily through a modal system where you stop editing and call up an interface control. Spell check and such are basically sequenced tools, anyway. The most complex item would likely be the selection control.

      Excel: Data is mostly presented in columns or rows, and a reader could quickly establish intended height/width blocks. Less common - but likely very functional - would be the use of Named Ranges to specify work areas on a sheet. On-the-fly adjustable detail settings or commands would choose between reading the displayed or editable contents of cells. The formula helper is practically perfect for a sequenced interface.

      PowerPoint: Perhaps you're thinking this is a lost cause, but PowerPoint has pre-made slides that give you click-and-type simplicity. Select a theme (better text descriptions of their design & contents might be helpful) and choose the type of slide you want. This one is probably quite easy.

      Mail: Simple enough, really, A few panes of information and a fair number of menus and buttons that could be read. Embedded content poses the largest problem, here.

      Browser: HTML is ripe for the plucking as this goes. Editing a browser to handle this would be far less work than most other programs, as you interpret much of the interface as you go.

      There are some arenas, I will grant you, that cannot take this approach. Photoshop, for instance. But for a large number of common-use applications, there's little reason they aren't better accessible.

      --
      That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
    34. Re:um... by grofty · · Score: 0

      Actually the answer to this lies in vocational use of a PC. Businesses use operating systems with integrated GUIs. That's just the way things are. As such they have applications that run on those things. For the business to give the visually impaired a chance to contribute to the full extent they are able, it is important there exist some parity between the tools they use and those of sighted workers. The same applications are needed to create sharable data files. As such integrating both worlds IS important.

      I have been working with a gentleman once a week. He has never used a computer before and it is a challenge to teach. Still, we do so on a Windows machine because the purpose is to provide vocational training. I'm very interested in the outcomes of this topic. I think some very creative thinking is needed to create this integration.

      In the short term, I would say the screen readers need to be improved to provide better navigation of screen content. There also needs to be improvements made to the User interface to provide better cues to screen readers. In the long term, perhaps interpreters should be created to translate GUI apps into simple text based apps that create and read the standard documents created by those other applications.

    35. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh. I'm not blind but I use text mode and w3m a lot. As you might guess I don't post on Slashdot as much anymore.

  3. A little unclear on specifics by winkydink · · Score: 4, Funny

    about the OS, but for deaf/blind people, the hw platform should be a pinball machine.

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    1. Re:A little unclear on specifics by spyder913 · · Score: 1

      but for deaf/blind people, the hw platform should be a pinball machine.

      TommyOS!

    2. Re:A little unclear on specifics by jd · · Score: 1

      Well, it's got to have a protocol to allow playing by sense of smell, and obviously needs replay support. To make things simple, it wouldn't need a tilt detector.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  4. Old SNL skit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Before closed captioning, sometimes on the news, they would have a guy at the bottom of the screen doing sign language during a section called "News for the Hearing Impaired". On Saturday Night Live, they made fun of this, with Garret Morris, in the role of the anchor for the "hearing impaited" would yell "OUR TOP STORY TONIGHT" when the anchor would say "Our Top Stoty Tonight"

    1. Re:Old SNL skit... by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 1

      I remember in the movie "The Worst Thing that Could Happen", which incidentally, I hated, there was one funny scene where there was a lady doing sign language for a man giving a speech. He got angry and shouted "Fuck You!" and the sign language lady raised her middle finger.

      --
      Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
    2. Re:Old SNL skit... by vettemph · · Score: 1

      I heard a skit like this on the radio a few days ago. A man calls a telegram service and dictates his message to the typist. The typists job is to repeat each word back to verify what she is typing. He went on to use lots of fowl language and racially motivated actions while the typist repeated everything back. Very Funny the way the typist repeated everything without the same emotion as the prankster.

      --
      The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
    3. Re:Old SNL skit... by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it sounds like George Carlin's "Ebonics Language Lesson"

      --
      Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
  5. 508 compliance by tyates · · Score: 5, Informative

    I would start with the US government's recommendations for app development for people with disabilities. Most apps written for the Fed have to be section 508 compliant, which helps ensure that they'll work with screen readers. Keep in mind though that from my (limited) experience, 508 compliance is more than an art than a science - you know, you get something that's kinda sorta 508 compliant.
    http://www.section508.gov/

    --
    Tristan Yates
    1. Re:508 compliance by HBI · · Score: 1

      Every 508 compliant site i've seen is first and foremost "kinda sorta 508 compliant" and furthermore is static. I have never seen a dynamic government site that is fully 508 compliant.

      There is a waiver process that plays a part here. I know of one significant government site that is under a lengthy waiver that will probably last until the backend technology is replaced.

      A truly 508 compliant site would be great for screen readers but would not please the sighted visually, by today's standards. This is why there is no mad rush to make 508 compliant commercial sites. This is also why most US government sites look like something from 1997 or so.

      This is one good reason why Flash is evil, for instance. Amongst other technologies such as spammy Java scroll bars on websites and Java-based menu systems. None of these are 508 compliant. Sure, the Flash fanboys will come out now and say "you can use it in a disabled-friendly fashion" but no one does.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    2. Re:508 compliance by tyates · · Score: 1

      508 isn't just for static sites. I've delivered a few 508 compliant web applications to the government. You're right that a 508 compliant site is pretty ugly.

      --
      Tristan Yates
    3. Re:508 compliance by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      You're right that a 508 compliant site is pretty ugly.

      Bullshit. The only reason why the myth of ugly accessible sites persists is that people don't actually read the guidelines; instead they assume "accessible" means "graphics and colors are forbidden".

    4. Re:508 compliance by nzlemming · · Score: 0

      If the site is ugly, perhaps it's because you have insufficient imagination as a developer to deliver a visually pleasing experience that meets the design criteria. Get over yourself.

      --
      A waist is a terrible thing to mind
  6. Apple VoiceOver and Universal Access by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Informative

    While not part of an OS designed "from scratch" for vision-impaired individuals, Apple VoiceOver is the first such functionality of its kind to be included for free with a commercial operating system. It's a fully integrated screenreader and accessibility interface for Mac OS X, and is tightly integrated with both the operating system and its APIs, and is extensively supported in several common applications.

    As for hearing-impaired individuals, the task is much easier, as the primary interface to a computer is already visual. However, visual alerts and features that would correspond with otherwise audio-only events have also been integrated by Apple in Universal Access.

    In addition, Universal Access includes features that assist individuals with motor impairments as well.

    While it may be an interesting and informative exercise to think about the types of things you'd do if you were going to "build it from scratch", it might be more productive to think about how these capabilities could be added to existing commodity operating systems, such that the technology can continue to be affordable and easily supported.

    1. Re:Apple VoiceOver and Universal Access by Baricom · · Score: 1

      Apple VoiceOver is the first such functionality of its kind to be included for free with a commercial operating system.
      No. Windows XP has had Narrator since its release.

      However, knowing Apple, VoiceOver probably works better. I haven't had a chance to test it yet.

    2. Re:Apple VoiceOver and Universal Access by SargeantLobes · · Score: 1
      For the blind I guess a simple shell (like the ones most /.ers enjoy) would work best. As for websites and menus one could tag content (menus, text, article, headline) so that the user could get their braile reader or speech program to list the things the user is interested instead of everything on the page.
      Typing shouldn't have to be a big problem for blind people, most geeks I know type without looking at their keyboards (and some of them without looking at the screen). I suppose the blind would be quick to pick this up, since they're used to completing tasks without the aid of vision.

      I guess improvements in voice recognition software could be useful for deaf users (to caption audio), but they wouldn't really have a problem operating computers.

      --
      I do love "!" but not as much as I love "..."...
    3. Re:Apple VoiceOver and Universal Access by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 1
      One of the neatest things I've read about Apple's VoiceOver is that if you are blind and installing the OS, it will start to give voice prompts on using VoiceOver after a couple minutes if there is no input.

      Another interesting comment I saw from Jason Wong's blog:
      I was told that Apple had a blind person in QA, testing Voiceover for over a year. What's more, he was using the 12" Powerbook, with the lcd removed, making it the lightest Apple laptop ever built.
    4. Re:Apple VoiceOver and Universal Access by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      Universal Access was a function of Mac OS 7.5, way back around the release of Windows '95. It was fairly buggy, but it was there...

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    5. Re:Apple VoiceOver and Universal Access by darkonc · · Score: 1
      I've never heard/seen VoiceOver, but my thought is that voice output is serial, and thus reasonably well suited to conversion to braile output for the deaf and blind.. You might have to add extensions to braile to make up for the loss of audio cues.

      As was said before, just deaf is pretty easy. I know lots of people who still run their computers with speakers detached. Once you do that, you've got a computer for the deaf. I have headphones on mine, and I'll often go for days without puting them on.

      --
      Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
    6. Re:Apple VoiceOver and Universal Access by tetsuji · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One of the most useful things about a GUI is the visual cues that it gives to jog the memory. CLI is often more powerful, but it is lacking in visual cues and so takes longer to master because you have to remember everything.

      So, what about creating some sort of sonic scheme for locating the user in 2d or greater sonic "space" that's equivalent to a sighted user's peripheral vision giving information about the GUI environment. I'm thinking perhaps musical chords could represent different parts of the "sonic desktop" and that chorded input could provide navigation for sightless users. Perhaps the keyboard could even be completely replaced by something like a stenographer's keyboard, where chorded input is the norm.

  7. My ideas by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Blind:

    1. Use a device that creates a topographical image on a pad based on the screen color values. This would allow the blind user to "feel" his way around the screen. More advanced versions could allow the user to use his hands as a mouse, by accepting a certain amount of pressure as a click.

    2. Controls on the device should allow the user to "zoom in" on particular areas. This would help the user more easily find toolbar buttons and the like.

    3. Replace the system fonts with braille fonts. (I'm uncertain as to how one might add bold or italics for emphasis, but I'm sure a system can be devised. Perhaps extra bumps outside the normal character area?)

    4. No right clicks. Right clicking is more of functionality for advanced users anyway. Mac OS X can get along without it, so other OSes should be able to do so as well.

    5. "Selected" items should actually invert in the control device. This would allow the person to easily understand what (s)he has selected at the moment.

    6. Standard controls such as checkboxes, radio buttons, and the like should be skinned to be more "feel" friendly. i.e. Simple invertable boxes would work better for checkboxes and radio buttons than our current iconic forms.

    7. One handed brail keyboard? It's just a thought, but if the blind could be taught to use a one hand keyboard, they could read and type at the same time.

    Deaf: What are some of the actual challenges facing a deaf computer user? Computers are primarily visual, and tend to suffer little with the loss of sound. (Unless I'm listening to music, I usually keep my machines muted.) My only thought is that the standard issues of movie subtitles apply.

    1. Re:My ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wonder how many of these ideas would actually work in practice. Perhaps a blind person could contribute to this discussion, and we could get a true perspective on this. There's probably a huge difference between what sighted people think blind people need and what people who are blind actually need.

    2. Re:My ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3. Replace the system fonts with braille fonts. (I'm uncertain as to how one might add bold or italics for emphasis, but I'm sure a system can be devised. Perhaps extra bumps outside the normal character area?)

      What is the point of that? Braille is meant to be felt, and would have no purpose on a screen, considering there is no technology as of now to change the physical level of a screen region.

    3. Re:My ideas by magefile · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, not all OSs support screen flashing (in its many incarnations) as a substitute for the terminal bell.

    4. Re:My ideas by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What is the point of that? Braille is meant to be felt, and would have no purpose on a screen

      Dude, read it again. I'm suggesting that they have a screen that they can *feel*. Regular characters would be very difficult to discern on such a device, so changing the fonts to braille is the best solution.

    5. Re:My ideas by tincho_uy · · Score: 1
      7. One handed brail keyboard? It's just a thought, but if the blind could be taught to use a one hand keyboard, they could read and type at the same time.

      Man, if they ever develop such a thing, all of the lynx-using /. readership is going to be learning braille! No longer will one handed surfing be reserved for mouse wielding weenies

    6. Re:My ideas by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Informative
      5. "Selected" items should actually invert in the control device. This would allow the person to easily understand what (s)he has selected at the moment.

      Braille consists of raised bumps. "Inverting" them, i.e. turning them into dents, renders them essentially unreadable.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    7. Re:My ideas by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The first thing I tend to do is turn off the damn bell. I can tell when my input is not accepted just fine, thank you. In fact, (as I stated in my post) I consistently mute my computer unless I'm listening to music or watching television. (I have a TV card.)

      Considering that muting the computer would have the same effect as being deaf (rest of the environment excluded), I fail to see how the terminal bell would help.

      The only case where I see an issue is with people who are both deaf and blind. Special notifications such as new email would be hard for them to detect. The only solution I can find in that situation is to add a vibrator to the touch device. If the system has an event that the user should know about, the device should vibrate litely. Info should also be added to a system log that the user can check to figure out what the latest event was. (Especially useful for when the user was away from his/her desk.)

    8. Re:My ideas by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Braille consists of raised bumps. "Inverting" them, i.e. turning them into dents, renders them essentially unreadable.

      Sorry, I was unclear. I was referring to icons and buttons being inverted. Text should never be inverted, but should actually be raised when selected. Thanks for catching that.

    9. Re:My ideas by Narril+Duskwalker · · Score: 2, Funny

      1. Use a device that creates a topographical image on a pad based on the screen color values. This would allow the blind user to "feel" his way around the screen. More advanced versions could allow the user to use his hands as a mouse, by accepting a certain amount of pressure as a click.

      Man i dunno about that, can you imagine the stuff they would have to feel while going through their spam?

    10. Re:My ideas by kfg · · Score: 1

      1. Use a device that creates a topographical image on a pad based on the screen color values.

      Such devices already exist, including those built into mice so the blind can "feel" icons and borders as the pointer slides over them. They are not simple devices to make (you need a controler for each element of the pad), but they are simple in principle.

      I'm by no means an expert in such things, but I've done some work helping out blind users and engineers.

      KFG

    11. Re:My ideas by kfg · · Score: 1

      Ever see a pin board? You know, that thing you can press your hand into and leave an impression?

      What do you suppose would happen if you placed controlers under each individual pin?

      Aha!

      KFG

    12. Re:My ideas by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Informative

      Man, if they ever develop such a thing,

      You mean, something like this? There are a variety of one handed keyboard designs, the most common of which are chorded keyboards. The primary issue is that they require a lot more training than a standard 104-key keyboard. Most people wouldn't bother with such training, but in the case of blind users, many already go through various special training. (e.g. Braille, sign-language, etc.)

    13. Re:My ideas by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      Such devices already exist, including those built into mice so the blind can "feel" icons and borders as the pointer slides over them.

      I'm not at all surprised. In fact, I knew such devices existed. The issue is that the last generation I saw were unusable due to low resolution and sharp pins. Also, some support from the OS tends to help a lot. (e.g. Inverted buttons.)

      It sounds like they've come a long way, though. :-)

    14. Re:My ideas by Anonymous+Custard · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Special notifications such as new email would be hard for them to detect.

      There are pressable buttons on certain "multimedia" keyboards that open your email, open your web browser, etc.

      A nice way to do notification for someone who can't hear or see would be to pop-out a similar button on the keyboard (or equivalent). When the email notification would normally appear / disappear on screen, the button would pop out / pop back in off the keyboard. The button could be pressed to start the email reading function.

      Recreating the screen from a visual device into a tactile (feeling) device seems to be a common idea, so far.

    15. Re:My ideas by zindorsky · · Score: 0
      One handed brail keyboard?

      Yes. Because the blind ought to be able to surf for porn too.

      --
      If the geiger counter does not click, the coffee, she is not thick.
    16. Re:My ideas by Darby · · Score: 1

      Braille consists of raised bumps. "Inverting" them, i.e. turning them into dents, renders them essentially unreadable.

      Dude, you're reading the back of the page ;-)

    17. Re:My ideas by kfg · · Score: 1

      It sounds like they've come a long way, though

      Yeah, they've learned to sand the pins.

      KFG

    18. Re:My ideas by david.given · · Score: 1
      The first thing I tend to do is turn off the damn bell. I can tell when my input is not accepted just fine, thank you.

      I like having feedback on things like tab completion not working, but I hate that hideous system beep too. My solution was to use xset the change the bell to a click --- it requires some fiddling with the parameters to find the right setting (it varies from machine to machine). But it's unobtrusive but effective, much less irritating, and I don't get death threats from my coworkers.

    19. Re:My ideas by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      I like having feedback on things like tab completion not working,

      To each their own, I guess. In my case, I'm rather annoyed at the Sun CDE terminal. While you can switch the bell to a flash, there is no way to completely disable the functionality. A minor thing, perhaps, but it bugs me to no end. :-/

    20. Re:My ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, how exactly is a blind person going to type on Slashdot? The new "anti-terrorism" measures have prevented blind people from posting on Slashdot.
      *goes to type in the captcha*

    21. Re:My ideas by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they've learned to sand the pins.

      *chuckle* I'm not sure if you're being humourous or sarcastic, so I'll just give a serious reply.

      As I understand it, simply sanding the pins was insufficient. Being as thin as the pins were, they were always going to be hard on people's hands. At the time I wondered about a rubber covering, but my guess is that such a covering would be easily punctured if it was thin enough not to obscure the information. :-)

    22. Re:My ideas by cp.tar · · Score: 1
      2. Controls on the device should allow the user to "zoom in" on particular areas. This would help the user more easily find toolbar buttons and the like.
      How about breaking up the userspace then?

      The old Gnome apps had detachable menus and toolbars; how about separating the toolbar and the workspace parts? I hear many designers use dual monitors for a similar purpose... tools on one screen, the uncluttered workspace on the other.

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    23. Re:My ideas by Eideewt · · Score: 2, Informative

      Applied Minds has created a topographical map that works like that. Not pressure sensitive, I think.

    24. Re:My ideas by afroborg · · Score: 1

      only if you're an AC...

      log in to avoid the captcha

      --
      my sig could kick your sig's arse...
    25. Re:My ideas by kfg · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if you're being humourous or sarcastic

      Yes.

      simply sanding the pins was insufficient.

      Yes, resoloution is directly related to pin size, and hence their "sharpness." The primary problem with rubber coating them is that you do not read them by pressing your fingers into them, but by sliding your hands along them. Low friction is desirable. Watch a blind person "reading" a face. A teflon coating on the rubber would no doubt alleviate this, but that still leaves the issues of durability and reduced resolution that you bring up.

      There comes a point for those with disabilities when you have to simply acknowledge that, despite political correctness, your "different" abilities are, in fact, lowered abilities and you will always be operating at some sort of disadvantage.

      A Segway just isn't a substitute for a properly functioning body and that's just the way it is.

      KFG

    26. Re:My ideas by kfg · · Score: 1

      Not pressure sensitive, I think.

      Right, because in this case its funtion is to give an impression, rather than receive one.

      KFG

    27. Re:My ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with that is that to create an account, you need to get past a CAPTCHA.

    28. Re:My ideas by fermion · · Score: 1
      I like this, except for one thing. Ditch the GUI. GUI are designed to take advantage of the mind remembering things when they see a key word, the ability for us to skim a page quickly, and the habit we form.

      Therefore except in few situations, i would not think it would very useful. Apple type menus that are always in the same might be useful, but Windows menu that move and continuously change, even within an application, would be difficult. The GUI also eats up system resources that could be used for things more useful for a blind person.

      Therefore it seems to me that we are talking about something that is comman line driven.

      Now if we could get a device in which the screen in captured in brail, then that would be cool. However, there would still be the problem with bone head site designer. A flash on the homepage is quite useless. Using icons for navigation, and then not naming the icon with a descriptive img tag is just criminal.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    29. Re:My ideas by BraveSlice · · Score: 1

      As proposed before: A topological map, presenting the screen.

      1. All text is translated to blind-text

      2. Reading loud is there (even it sucks), but only for problem situations.

      3. All figures are translated to topological map too.

      As engineer but not knowing much about disabilities this sounds like working system. Should be easy to make too ( ;) )

      Sound! Should be used tones more than voice. So if your finger goes over a for example a link a beeb sound will emerge (fast and not too awful) no long blah blah speaking voice.

      Electricity! Should be used to give feed back. And no it wont hurt, if you make it right.

      Cold&Hot! Should be used to give feed back. This is hard, but maybe usable. Maybe to give colors to figures.

      Active touch feedback! With tapping different parts of the human you can do pretty miracles for example to read text at speed of 30-50 wpm. Stuff like that.

      Takes some time to do all of this 3-5 years maybe. And are not really an OS :) but you need these or at least some of them to make it work beautifully.

  8. One answer: by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:One answer: by seramar · · Score: 1

      Where are the screen shots? I can't download something if I'm not sure of how it'll look.

      --
      australian project gutenberg is better than the original.
    2. Re:One answer: by MechaShiva · · Score: 1, Funny

      I suppose it was wrong clicking on the link hoping for screen shots, huh?

      --
      After calming me down with some orange slices and some fetal spooning, E.T. revealed to me his singular purpose.
    3. Re:One answer: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no screenshots because its intended for blind people ...

    4. Re:One answer: by jusdisgi · · Score: 1
      --
      Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
  9. Deaf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't see why deaf users can't just use Windows, etc. There are prompts for any errors.. heck, I almost always have my laptop muted.

  10. It's pretty sad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That this guy is blind but can type/spell better than most people on this board. :)

    1. Re:It's pretty sad... by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 1

      He's not blind, or else he wouldn't tell you about how bright it is at 4:30am and the crazy cat about to fall into the pool. He works with other developers to make blind-enabled software.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:It's pretty sad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or play doom3 or play

  11. CLI would be IDEAL by BagOBones · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Really if you are going to take only text as input and output is going to be serial text, speech (blind but not deaf), braille CLI is the way to go.

    This does not prevent you from multi tasking BTW, it simply means that you need to work within a well defined context.

    Nothing new to invent.

    --
    EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
    1. Re:CLI would be IDEAL by Reverend528 · · Score: 1
      well, even the well-crafted unix CLI tools could use some work before they'd be useful for Text-To-Speech applications.

      Anyone who's ever piped the output from 'ls -l' into festival knows this.

    2. Re:CLI would be IDEAL by SnprBoB86 · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      The standard unix tools need to be redesigned to be as easily spoken as they are interperated by the average user.

      --
      http://brandonbloom.name
    3. Re:CLI would be IDEAL by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      well, even the well-crafted unix CLI tools could use some work before they'd be useful for Text-To-Speech applications.

      I'm not sure that the parent was referring to text-to-speech. In the case of a 80x25 terminal, it would be quite easy to build a monitor that pops up the bumps for each braille character. Reading it would be as simple as scanning down the page. Obviously "less" would be needed to prevent things from scrolling too fast.

      Such devices already exist, although I think they only provide one line at a time (for some reason).

    4. Re:CLI would be IDEAL by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      Such devices already exist, although I think they only provide one line at a time (for some reason).

      Expense.

      This was the first advertised hit on google, but at this store you're looking at $10,000 for a one-line 81 character display.

      For 25 lines, I'd rather just hire someone to read my screen for me.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    5. Re:CLI would be IDEAL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YEAH that will happen. Blind people are not that important. Unix utilities remaining how they are is more important than blind peoples needs. If blind people want those utilities they can write them themselves.

    6. Re:CLI would be IDEAL by Kirth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The standard unix tools need to be redesigned to be as easily spoken as they are interperated by the average user.
      Absolutely. There's a nice article on this. The author implemented an "ls" which outputs "644" on "ls -p". I'm all for something like that. Special switches to GNU ls or whatever to allow things like this. As long as there are enough letters left for parameters, do it.

      And then, there is /bin/ed of course ;).

      --
      "The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
    7. Re:CLI would be IDEAL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CLI isn't multichoice, and sometimes multichoice is the best interface. Also CLI can't have hierarchy... (eg, reading 6 headings, then going into more detail effectively creating a way to browse a lot of information ... cli is just a flat unstructured and you need to know what you want).

    8. Re:CLI would be IDEAL by SnprBoB86 · · Score: 1

      This is a great article.

      My proposed answer to the question of whether or not a single app can be ideal for both blind and sighted users is simply a no, but that doesn't mean that the Model/View pattern couldn't be employed...

      --
      http://brandonbloom.name
  12. A small sense of advancement. by glassjaw+rocks · · Score: 1

    Well, I certainly think this is smarter than putting braille on ATM machine buttons.

    --
    -gjr
    1. Re:A small sense of advancement. by uberdave · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What really weirds me out is braille signs in airports and subway stations. How is a blind person supposed to know that there is a sign there, feel the entire wall?

    2. Re:A small sense of advancement. by Mortserg · · Score: 1
      Well, I certainly think this is smarter than putting braille on ATM machine buttons.

      Because blind people can't ride in the backseat of a car? Also, ATMs are walkup machines too... and it's cheaper to design fewer machines.
    3. Re:A small sense of advancement. by pizen · · Score: 1

      I think it's perfectly reasonable to have braille on walk-up ATM buttons. It's the drive-through ones that scare me.

    4. Re:A small sense of advancement. by Glaz · · Score: 1

      "What really weirds me out is braille signs in airports and subway stations. How is a blind person supposed to know that there is a sign there, feel the entire wall?"

      The blind fellow I know isn't the sort of blind that is approximated by a blank screen, but rather the sort of blind person that is approximated by an extremely blurry screen. He can't function using his sight alone, but he has enough visual acuity to know that, say, there's a sign there if he gets close enough to the wall. I'm guessing that sort of blind fellow is what the braile on signs is designed for.

    5. Re:A small sense of advancement. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any ATM I've ever used has required using the unlabled buttons by reading the screen. Even with the numbers in braille, a blind person would have no way of knowing whether they are pushing "Account Inquiry" button or "Withdraw From Money Market" without someone to read it for them. So even though they don't have to tell their assistant their pin, they still have to have someone they trust to tell them what the screen says. Plus, if you go to many machines and ask for, say, $25, you will get two crisp bills, one on top of another, which (at least here in the US) are completely indistiguishable from each other. ATMs are not blind-accessible by themselves, and the braille on the number pad is a pathetic attempt to pretend they have done something to make it easier.

  13. Which one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well which one is it? Blind or deaf? Not to sound cruel but what kind of interaction can a person have with a computer if they are both deaf and blind?

    1. Re:Which one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Braille still works well, leaving options such as the following open:
      • Correspondence
      • News
      • Simpler turn-based games, like chess, checkers, cards
      • Coding
      In other words, a more fulfilling experience than what most people get out of their computers because they aren't being distracted by Internet porn.
  14. An OS for the deaf and blind? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CmdrTaco, Timothy, Zonk, Pudge! Get a hint! At-least TRY to read the Slashdot frontpage!

    One character was forgotten that is self-evident of the Slashdot editors: blind, deaf, and dumb.

    That is all.

  15. A Practical Answer by Stanistani · · Score: 1

    Multi-modal:
    Deaf - Signing/GUI
    Blind - Verbal/Acoustic
    Multiple Challenge - Tactile/Special peripheral

  16. Ok, blind/deaf are covered, what about the dumb? by theurge14 · · Score: 1

    There should be a mod for Rhetorical.

  17. And so? by ratta · · Score: 1

    I can't SEE what the problem is.

    --
    Wondering why i am doing so strange posts? I am trying to get a "+5,Flamebait" or "-1,Insightful" rating.
  18. Changable Braile, only 80 characters? by XPisthenewNT · · Score: 1

    According the link, the BEST braile converter, does 80 characters across, which it touts as ideal because it's the same number of letters across the screen.

    WHOA--old school alert. Outputting modern day screens to these things must be a pain.

    To use this with the internet, I think it would be ideal for the blind to use sites formatted for cell phones. The machine can use "extra" bumps to suggest where the cursor is, perhaps a bump can indicate if the cell is part of a link--then add a link clicker button for each cell.

  19. rod matrix I/O by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was peripherally involved in some good research in just that area years back.Can't tell you too much about it now, no secrets just the passing of time, but imagine one of those toys you get on Think Geek which is made of hundreds of rods. Like a giant old dot matrix printer head. Each rod is connected to a piezo ceramic transducer/actuator which can both move the rods and feel the pressure upon them. The guys only ever bult a 32 x 32 matrix but had some astounding results with braille readers. An gesture based input/output device like this could be mass produced rather cheaper these days than the prototype we had back in the 80s.

  20. Sense of Smell by machinegunhand · · Score: 1

    Just as in most day to day life experiences, the sense of smell could be used for navigation. For some of us, it already comes in handy with regards to sensing the presence of Windows.

  21. For deaf individuals? by Tezkah · · Score: 1

    If I were designing an OS for deaf individuals... I uh... wouldn't spend a lot of time on Music Players?

    It seems to me like a lack of eyesight would be a bigger barrier to computer usage.

    1. Re:For deaf individuals? by hilaryduff · · Score: 1

      most people who are registered blind can see SOMETHING .. although only a percentage will be able to see anything useful at all on a screen, no matter how zoomed each character is

  22. web based by hostyle · · Score: 1

    Web based applications are quick to set up and easy to make accessible if you follow w3 guidelines and test via Bobby AAA and the WAI. With proper use of XHTML and CSS any website / web application can be attractive to all prospective users. I've worked on a few recently, but none have yet been launched so unfortunately I can't post links.

    How complex is your application? Can it be made a web-based application? The disabled can already use the internet, and many feel comfortable doing so (on accessible sites). If it can't be made web-based perhaps you need to re-think its complexity? Imagine you're using a curses interface or the lynx browser. Both are easily output to tty or audio interfaces.

    --
    Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
    1. Re:web based by hostyle · · Score: 1
      --
      Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
    2. Re:web based by tepples · · Score: 1

      With proper use of XHTML and CSS any website / web application can be attractive to all prospective users.

      Except now you've broken access for the 90 percent who aren't blind and use Microsoft Internet Explorer, which is incompatible with XHTML.

      If it can't be made web-based perhaps you need to re-think its complexity? Imagine you're using a curses interface or the lynx browser.

      Does Gmail, which uses client-side scripts that poll the server (the so-called "Ajax" method), count as "web based"? Lynx doesn't run client-side scripts.

    3. Re:web based by hostyle · · Score: 1

      Except now you've broken access for the 90 percent who aren't blind and use Microsoft Internet Explorer, which is incompatible with XHTML

      Yawn. Linked article is full of pedantic old information, which has very little relevance to accessibility. Why is it everytime I mention XHTML someone brings up that article. Sure, the author raises some relevant points - none of which are insurmountable or even hard to get around. Have you read and understood the article BTW? Or do you just post it randomly when you see someone mention XHTML. I have read and understood it more than once, and understand all of its points. I won't take it apart point by point right now because it would take too long (and has little to no relevance to this discussion), but if you like, leave a reply and I will - not straight away, but soon.

      Does Gmail, which uses client-side scripts that poll the server (the so-called "Ajax" method), count as "web based"? Lynx doesn't run client-side scripts.

      Both gmail, the linked article. and your entire argument all seem to have a javascript base. What javascript has to do with accessibilty for the disabled, or anything to do with any properly designed website (ie. websites that use javascript should cater for people without javascript - if they dont, they're broken). No web application requires javascript or AJAX or any latest greatest browser technology. Since when did serving information or feedback / interaction require anything above basic HTML syntax? The only reason I brought up XHTML is that it caters better to the disabled by requiring less tag soup (closing tags are required); introduces tags like fieldset and label; forces the HTML programmer to nest properly; and requires lots of accessibility orientated tag attributes (alt, title, summary, scope, headers, label, etc.).

      --
      Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
    4. Re:web based by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      The only reason I brought up XHTML is that it caters better to the disabled by requiring less tag soup (closing tags are required); introduces tags like fieldset and label; forces the HTML programmer to nest properly; and requires lots of accessibility orientated tag attributes (alt, title, summary, scope, headers, label, etc.).

      The set of tags and attributes available in XHTML 1.0 is identical to the set of tags and attributes available in HTML 4.01; no new elements were added until XHTML 1.1, and then the only addition was the "ruby" module. HTML 4.01 requires all tags to be nested properly. HTML 4.01 requires the use of "alt". No version of HTML or XHTML yet formulated requires the use of header elements, labels, table summaries, etc.

      I would like to see a point-by-point rebuttal to Ian's article, by the way, but judging by your apparent ignorance of HTML 4 I'm not expecting anything outstanding from you on the subject of XHTML.

    5. Re:web based by hostyle · · Score: 1
      > <script> and <style> elements in XHTML sent as text/html have to be
      > escaped using ridiculously complicated strings.</i>

      Then don't do that. Seperate your content layout from your presentation layer and your application logic. Use the link tag for your CSS. Include your javascript via an external file (which should be using triggers and the DOM rather than anything inline).

      > A CSS stylesheet written for an HTML4 document is interpreted
      > slightly differently in an XHTML context (e.g. the <body> element
      > is not magical in XHTML, tag names must be written in lowercase in
      > XHTML).

      Whats the problem? People not using CSS correctly? How is that a problem with XHTML? (I will admit that I have been guilty of this in the past)

      > A DOM-based script written for an HTML4 document has subtly
      > different semantics in an XHTML context (e.g. element names are
      > case insensitive and returned in uppercase in HTML4, case sensitive
      > and always lowercase in XHTML; you have to use the namespace-aware
      > methods in XHTML, but not in HTML4)

      Again, problems encountered because of this are mostly because people are writing (or more likely copy and pasting) broken javascript. The case of element names is already a cross-browser problem (Konqueror versus other browsers), so use prototype to overload the built-in functions or other, similar, case changing/aware methods.

      > Scripts that use document.write() will not work in XHTML contexts.
      > (You have to use DOM Core methods.)

      Whats the problem? People not writing javascript for the DOM again? People not writing scripts for the DOM are asking for trouble - its not like getElementById() or createElement() are new - they've been around for quite some time.

      > Current UAs are, for text/html content, HTML4 user agents (at best)
      > and certainly not XHTML user agents.

      This is obviously a problem. How does not using XHTML fix it? It doesn't. Once the browsers are fixed, so is the problem. I haven't the time to test this right now, but can anyone tell me if the latest UAs from Mozilla / Opera / KHTML still have this problem? The quoted article is from 2002, with some updates up to 2004.

      > XHTML documents that use the "/>" notation, as in "<link />" have
      > very different semantics when parsed as HTML4. So if there was to
      > be a fully compliant HTML4 UA, it would be quite correct to show
      > ">" characters all over the page.

      Can anyone show me a browser that does this? I'm not saying its not a problem, and I didn't say that all of these problems could be overcome, just most of them. But I haven't come across a browser that actually does this.

      > Since most authors only check their documents using one or two UAs,
      > rather than using a validator, this means that authors are not
      > checking for validity, and thus most documents that claim to be
      > XHTML on the web now are invalid.

      How is this a problem with XHTML? Its not - its a people problem.

      I'd like to do a much more in depth article on this topic - not because I think the author is wrong, but many of his arguments are people problems rather than XHTML problems - at some point, and sift through the entire article rather than add a couple of lines of text in reply to sporadic quotes from the article. Time is not on my side at the moment however - and the last 20 minutes composing this hopefully not-too-vague response were sorely required elsewhere.

      --
      Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
    6. Re:web based by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      A few points as I drag myself out of bed:

      Whats the problem? People not using CSS correctly? How is that a problem with XHTML? (I will admit that I have been guilty of this in the past)

      It's a problem because, even for some simple effects like page backgrounds, you now need one stylesheet for use when your document is served as text/html and another for when it's served as application/xhtml+xml.

      Again, problems encountered because of this are mostly because people are writing (or more likely copy and pasting) broken javascript.

      No, this is even to the point where all the tutorials on modern DOM scripting are screwed, because methods like createElement() don't work in a document sent as application/xhtml+xml. Which means you either have to write two separate versions of your script, or use some sort of switching contsruct to determine at run-time which methods your script will use.

      This is obviously a problem. How does not using XHTML fix it? It doesn't. Once the browsers are fixed, so is the problem.

      Using valid HTML 4.01 with a fully-qualified URL in the DOCTYPE means your document is processed the way you expect (standards-compliance mode in all modern browsers). Using valid XHTML 1.0 with a fully-qualified URL in the DOCTYPE means your document might be read in standards mode or might be read in quirks mode, depending on the browser. Particularly, it's easy to throw IE6 into quirks mode with XHTML whether you want to or not, and even if IE7 fixes this IE6's market share is going to be huge for a very long time to come.

      Now, stop for a moment and ask yourself about sending XHTML as text/html: what benefits of XHTML do you gain in doing so? Not draconian error-handling, since no browser will do that with text/html. Not the ability to bring in content from other namespaces, since no browser will do that with text/html. Not ease of processing with XML tools on the client side, since you've told the client that this isn't XML. So where are the advantages of XHTML as text/html? I sure don't see any.

      Honestly, the best you can hope for is to serve application/xhtml+xml to browsers which understand it and fall back for IE. And if you don't need any of XML's benefits and don't want to run the risk of a yellow screen of death, why bother with that? Use HTML 4.01 which has the same set of tags and attributes as XHTML 1.0, and much broader browser compatibility. In other words, XHTMl vs. HTML 4 isn't a "use the latest and greatest" debate, it's a "right tool for the job" debate.

    7. Re:web based by hostyle · · Score: 1
      Whats the problem? People not using CSS correctly? How is that a problem with XHTML? (I will admit that I have been guilty of this in the past)

      It's a problem because, even for some simple effects like page backgrounds, you now need one stylesheet for use when your document is served as text/html and another for when it's served as application/xhtml+xml.

      OK. I'll accept its a problem, but its not one thats very hard to get out of. Apply the background to a page-encompassing DIV for example. Theres almost always somewhere else in the cascade that you can style instead to get around one problem or another.

      ... because methods like createElement() don't work in a document sent as application/xhtml+xml.

      Eh? This is news to me. I'll go check that out later on this evening if I get the chance. I certainly don't glean that from the linked article. If what you say is true then that is indeed a bit of a showstopper.

      In other words, XHTMl vs. HTML 4 isn't a "use the latest and greatest" debate, it's a "right tool for the job" debate.

      Hmm. You may have me I think :) I'll ponder this during the next few websites I do. I was mislead (sometime ago, up until your post) by some peers into thinking XHTML 1.0 had actually added certain tags / attributes. After actual research into the matter at your prompting it seems that they were lying b*st*rds who are not to be trusted.

      Thank you for this discussion in any case - although its gone far off topic. I'm not converted back to HTML 4.01 just yet, but I may regress at some point in the near future. I still disagree with many of the points in the linked article - many of his points are "people problems" as I put them, rather than XHTML problems per se.

      --
      Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
    8. Re:web based by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      Apply the background to a page-encompassing DIV for example.

      Unfortunately, that doesn't work. In XHTML as application/xhtml+xml the root element is 'html', not 'body', so the 'body' element only takes up as much space as is needed to display the page's content. So if you have a tiling background but not enough content to fill a browser window, the background ends where your content does. This can be worked around by setting the background on 'html' instead of 'body' (that's what's meant by 'body isn't magical'), but it can be a bit of a kludge and cause compatibility problems in older browsers. Also, IE mistakenly thinks there's another root element higher up in the DOM tree than 'html', so if it ever gets wind of application/xhtml+xml this may not work anymore.

      Eh? This is news to me. I'll go check that out later on this evening if I get the chance. I certainly don't glean that from the linked article. If what you say is true then that is indeed a bit of a showstopper.

      It is true. createElement() works in the context of the HTML DOM, but an XHTML document served as application/xhtml+xml gets an XML DOM, not an HTML DOM. Which means that you have to use the method createElementNS() instead and pass in the XHTML namespace as an argument.

      Again, it really comes down to a "best tool for the job" question. In a lot of cases I go with XHTML because the tools I prefer are designed with it in mind, but there are times when HTML 4.01 is a stronger choice (for example, I've done a lot of work lately on sites powered by Scoop, the CMS which runs kuro5hin and a few other well-known sites, and it really wouldn't play well with XHTML at all).

    9. Re:web based by ubernostrum · · Score: 1

      Should have said "root element of the visual display", since the root element of the document in both cases is 'html'.

      Which is another odd thing about XHTML: you can style things in the head.

  23. Isn't it done? by Lozay_2k · · Score: 1

    I thought there's already enough support for them by windows itself and by other software firms.

  24. On the contrary by phorm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The OS is going to be at least somewhat compatible with other OS's to be somewhat useful. I should also have specialized input devices for people with hearing or vision deficiencies, and probably be compatible with modern X86 hardware (unless you plan on starting everything from scratch).

    Since visual input plays a huge part in interfacing with a modern OS and/or software, you're probably not going to need software compatability. You would need, however, to make the document formats compatible with say office, or a standard XML format, etc.

    Still, an OS redesign is a big task. It might be better to go with an existing OS.

    So basically, you're not going to need "video" drivers, but you will need an interface with specific hardware for the blind, various document formats, storage/printing devices, etc etc

    1. Re:On the contrary by Baricom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree. The challenge in developing an accessible user interface is that every disability has a different set of needs. For example, a person with a hearing impairment might be able to get along just fine on a general operating system - my home computer has a pair of headphones which I basically only use when I'm listening to music.

      It seems to me that operating systems today are farthest behind in serving people with visual impairments. It's obvious that a person who is totally or partially blind isn't going to have much fun trying to use a Graphical User Interface.

      I think the best solution at the moment is to write software that works within existing operating systems, using the built-in accessibility toolkits. A lot of improvement could be realized in this area alone.

    2. Re:On the contrary by laffer1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      You may not need video drivers, but some people are legally blind but can still see a little. I had a history professor who could not drive and had mr. magoo glasses. He had to hold up tests and quizes up to his face to read them, but he still functioned. He would have great difficulty using a screen most of the time, but it would still be useful to have video for certain things.

      Also, I do a website for a blind business owner. He has his secretary look at the site, etc. Sometimes she looks at his computer to help him. In that case, basic VESA video support would be nice. Interesting thing is that he actually coded his original website before i took over. He still does updates. Not to bad at html actually. He has some trouble with css properties but i think thats understandable! In this case, he lost his sight during his teens so he has an idea what a box is or colors.

      I personally think a linux or bsd would be a great base and then a totally customized X11 system with a specialized window manager would do the trick. The real time would need to be put into the navigation system, web browser, text editor and word processing software. It would be nice if someone thought outside the box and made other types of software like accounting software (quickbooks type stuff) etc. I'm amazed what a blind person can do.

      The guy uses windows with some very expensive software. He told me it was 20,000 dollars for a dell customzied with the software. The reason is that the software isn't expensive, but customizing it for the setup need by that person is. If someone could design an interface that allowed the blind person to migrate settings or do it themselves it would save them a lot of money!!!!!

    3. Re:On the contrary by merlin_jim · · Score: 1

      The challenge in developing an accessible user interface is that every disability has a different set of needs.

      And even more challenging is remembering that as you develop it. And this isn't just the degree to which a person is disabled. It's also the education level of the person, and even where they were educated.

      For instance in new england it's common practice to teach a deaf person both American Sign Language and a pidgin language based on it that's used more commonly for everyday speech. (The difference being that ASL doesn't require lipreading. The conversational sign language used in America generally does) However here in the South, finding someone that knows ASL is very rare.

      Honestly, the technology just isn't there yet for fully blind users. I mean you've got refreshable braille displays which are slow and expensive. You've got screen readers which are slow and non-ideal (ever actually try to surf the web with one?) And then you've got speech-to-text. Don't get me started on that one.

      So how would I design an interface meant to be used by those without vision?

      1. Implement a good speech-to-text-to-speech system.
      2. Develop a query and control language. This language should:
      a) interpret natural language inputs
      b) assist users to clarify a request to an allowed syntax in case of syntax error
      3. Map the query and control language to an API. Make it rich. Make it easy to implement
      4. Create some special purpose dialects. Text-formatting, for instance (as in: "dictate Hello comma line-break I hope this finds you well period " etc...)
      5. Rewrite a bunch of critical apps to use the API. At the minimum you're going to want e-mail, calendar, IM, and web browsing. Some apps just don't make sense; for instance a spreadsheet. Way too visual.
      6. Create some special purpose apps designed either specifically to meet the needs of vision impaired people, or to take advantage of the interface.
      7. Create some games.

      Once you've done all that then you will have created the first interface that's truly usable for the vision impaired.

      --
      I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
  25. i worked at a blindness charity on the computers by hilaryduff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    this was in '97. one bit of advice i can give is to make it so blind AND sighted people can use it. this is important because often the blind user will need to be taught to use it, and another blind user isnt always available/ideal for teaching another blind user (depending).

  26. Oralux by TheSync · · Score: 2, Informative

    Oralux is a Knoppix live-CD to facilitate access to GNU/Linux for the visually impaired. The Oralux user interface is based on Emacspeak or Yasr, and has FLITE and EFM (Festival/MBROLA version).

  27. Use Linux. by DosBubba · · Score: 2, Insightful
  28. AN OS? by Quasar1999 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What the hell does an OS have to do with who's using it?

    An OS should be a standard toolset for applications to be built on. Memory management, driver management, and application management is what an OS should do... it should worry about dividing hardware resources up among it's processes, it should worry about managing drivers... it should not have anything to do with the user interface that runs on it. This question was obviously posed by someone who hasn't the first clue about what an OS actually is.

    --

    ---
    Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
    1. Re:AN OS? by sixteenraisins · · Score: 2, Insightful

      it should not have anything to do with the user interface that runs on it

      And are there not tools available in an OS that allow the user to choose and install applications for the OS to manage? How might such a disabled person start and/or stop any processes on your OS which, as you say, should not have anything to do with the user interface?

      Wipe your hard drive and do a fresh install of your favorite OS, then blindfold yourself and install and use your apps. Go ahead, I dare you.

      --
      When you're not looking, this sig is in Latin.
    2. Re:AN OS? by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Well, is Mac OS an operating system? How about Windows? According to most currently used definitions they are. Or perhaps you are some sort of pedant who wants to call them operating environments or OS+interface. Whatever. The poster was referring to the user interface, which is usually handled by the OS for most applications.

      That is also, I might mention, the best place to deal with a specialized user interface so that you need not depend upon every application developer to try to put in special support for the disabled.

    3. Re:AN OS? by Metaphorically · · Score: 1

      Thank you. Why does everyone equate the OS with the user interface?

      The OP's question makes a lot more sense when it's phrased in terms of UI than it does when you try to make the user a function of the OS.

      I think the confusion comes about from marketing, but we should know better than to adopt every misconception propogated by talking heads.

      --
      more of the same on Twitter.
    4. Re:AN OS? by Infernal+Device · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On the other hand, both your response and the one it responds to are crass and ignorant.

      It is reasonable that a non-technical person would confuse the OS with the interface, since more and more, the interface is designed to shield the non-technical user from the inner workings. This is the world we live in, rather than some idealized form where everybody has a clear understanding of everything.

      Perhaps the OP's real expertise is in working with the deaf and blind in a different area rather than computer interfaces. Perhaps this person has not had the exposure that you have had. Whatever the case, it doesn't matter if the person was informed or not; by both of y'all showing your asses, you've contributed a little bit more to one of the problems, rather than a sensible solution.

      --
      "My God...it's full of trolls!"
    5. Re:AN OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The phrase "Blind OS" represents muddle-headed thinking from the very start.

      An operating system is an abstraction of resource managers of various hardware-level resources: CPU, disk, etc.

      The challenges a blind person experiences in using a computer has nothing to do CPU scheduling, filesystems, interprocess communication, nor of anything else that relates to operating systems. The challenge of the blind is all in the user interface.

      (Sigh.)

    6. Re:AN OS? by Tjp($)pjT · · Score: 1

      It is still not an OS. What you need is a layer over the OS for UI for blind, etc. users. The OS is the OS. The UI is the UI. Only a few OSes have been so structured towards visual displays that the primary concerns were video related and core to the OS (or even lower!). Really what you want is nothing more than, for example, something that uses mouse gestures, a data glove, etc. and provides audio or a braille bar for the feedback. The OS just thinks those are peachy keeno devices. They still aren't part of the OS and neither is the application installer. You just need to write the stuff above the OS. The closest you come to OS work is the device drivers for the required interface devices accepting input and providing feedback. I don't look for this to be a hot seller though as the limited market raises the price to a premium level. Especially if someone sells investors on the need for a whole new OS when Linux, BSD, Mac OS (I know that's redundant), or even Windows suffices. Even of them can be pretty easily configured to use some different UI rather than the one(s) shipped with them. Thogh Windows requires the most work, it is still not all that hard.

      --
      - Tjp

      I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!

    7. Re:AN OS? by HalWasRight · · Score: 1
      Well, is Mac OS an operating system? How about Windows? According to most currently used definitions they are.
      This is exactly why I loathe seeing Microsoft products being used in education. It results in students who can't tell the difference between an OS and a user interface package.

      It is pretty snide of you to dismiss anyone who challenges your inability to recognize software architectural boundaries as a "some sort of pendant".

      But enough with the petty poop throwing. Let's look deeper at your examples. Is Mac OS an OS? Well, Darwin is. But the front end you see is a user interface package. What about Windows? Well, guess what: THERE ARE WINDOWS BOXES WITH NO BITMAPPED DISPLAYS OR MICE!!!! So, if you can remove the user interface, does that still make the user interface part of the OS? What about Java? Is Java an OS? Is Swing or SWT an OS?

      Perhaps you should read some more books on software architecture before being so sure of yourself.

      --
      "This mission is too important to allow you to jeopardize it." -- HAL
    8. Re:AN OS? by belmolis · · Score: 1

      For the naive user, the confusion between OS and UI stems from the fact that its all one piece to them. For a somewhat less naive user, it may also be due to the fact that MS Windows intermingles the UI and the core OS functions. For those of us familiar with Unix and other OSes with a reasonable degree of modularity, the distinction is obvious, but if all you know is MS Windows, even if you know a fair amount about it, the idea of separating OS and UI may never have arisen.

    9. Re:AN OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you but I think your reference to an OS should be changed to a kernal. The Kernal should be the basics and control everything you mentioned. Technically an OS can have a GUI or UI programed into it or on a layer above the kernal. For example, Linux is a kernal. BSD is a kernal. However, Linux and BSD are generally not considered full OS's and that is why you have distro's. Hope that helps.

    10. Re:AN OS? by harish.babu · · Score: 1

      An operating system is an abstraction of resource managers of various hardware-level resources: CPU, disk, etc.

      As far as I can remember, the UI is also part of the OS. You are looking at the problem from a purely technical point of view. A great OS (aka. one with great memory managament, great scheduling etc.) is only as usable as it UI. Nobody is going to use an OS if its is too cumbersome to use (OK OK...I can already hear some command line afficandos screaming, but that is not the point). An average user uses more of the UI than the command line.

      My point is that the UI of an OS (which is part of the OS) should be designed taking into consideration the need of people with disablities

    11. Re:AN OS? by sfe_software · · Score: 1

      ...The poster was referring to the user interface, which is usually handled by the OS for most applications.

      That is also, I might mention, the best place to deal with a specialized user interface so that you need not depend upon every application developer to try to put in special support for the disabled.


      I mostly agree. There are many interpretations about what is considered "part of the OS", but the bottom line is that none of it matters. What matters is whether the system as a whole works for a given user.

      Yes, each OS has a different line drawn between "OS" and "Application", but if a usser -- especially one with specific needs -- finds the system useful, it will likely be his/her system of choice. He or she isn't going to worry about whether this or that is "part of the OS" or not.

      So draw the line wherever you like. The system as a whole is what is important. I do agree that there should be some core elements that were built with accessibility in mind -- so the application developers don't have to worry so much about that aspect... as well as consistancy. The OS (or GUI or WM or whatever) should be responsible for providing an API or interface for the "differently abled", and the app developers should utilize, or at least be aware of, these interfaces.

      When you build a web site, do you not at least view it on a system with large fonts, to ensure it will be viewable by all? Likewise, software developers should test their software with different accessibility options enabled to make sure it at least functions in those environments.

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    12. Re:AN OS? by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 1

      You're thinking of the kernel. The operating system is the whole software part of the platform. If there's a lot of optional stuff, as in Linux, you can quibble as to whether X is part of the OS, but in Windows, the whole graphical shell is certainly part of the OS.

      --
      I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
    13. Re:AN OS? by sfe_software · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, both your response and the one it responds to are crass and ignorant.

      I somewhat agree with you. The bottom line is, IMO, this:

      It doesn't matter where the line is drawn between OS and GUI. What mattters is the product as a whole. If a blind person can utilize the system, then something was done right. The blind man does not care whether his special features are part of the OS, or the UI, or some application... he only cares that it works.

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    14. Re:AN OS? by sfe_software · · Score: 1

      For those of us familiar with Unix and other OSes with a reasonable degree of modularity, the distinction is obvious, but if all you know is MS Windows, even if you know a fair amount about it, the idea of separating OS and UI may never have arisen.

      In reality it's all arbitrary anyway. Who's to say that modularity is the correct implementation? Or that integration is the way to go? MS isn't wrong, nor is the Unix community.

      The point is, to a disabled person, all that matters is this: does the system as a whole work for me? Can I accomplish what I need to with it? I don't care where you place the arbitrary line between OS/GUI/App... all I care about is whether the system, as a whole, works for me.

      Realistically this could be applied to anyone, disabled or otherwise...

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
    15. Re:AN OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where you are going wrong is saying that an OS has a UI. The OS has a collection of function calls that let programmers use recourses that the OS manages, it does not have a UI.

      What you are talking about is a program that lets the user interact with their computer. In Linux such a program is the shell and is based on interaction through the keyboard and screen (This is a UI mind you because it lets the User Interact with the computer), in Windows this program is called 'explorer' and is based mostly on interaction through the mouse and screen.

      If I were you I would at least read what the definition of OS and UI is before trying to say that an OS has a UI.

      (disclaimer: There might be such an OS where an interface to the user is integrated into it but it is not the norm since the largest share of the market is held by OSs that are not integrated with a UI)

    16. Re:AN OS? by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Actually, the NT kernel can run just fine without the Windows GUI - look at the Recovery Console or the code that runs when you Install, or the chkdsk that runs if you don't dismount the disks cleanly.

      You can even write Native application for the NT kernel, to do things like backups and so on.

      http://www.sysinternals.com/Information/NativeAppl ications.html

      In fact in NT before 4.0, all the Win32 stuff was run in _user_ mode, in the CSRSS native application, even graphics drivers. Even now, things like the start menu are in a user process, explorer.exe. You can replace it with whatever you want.

      All this is someone moot admittedly, given that 99.999% of Windows applications are Win32 and need CSRSS running, but the architectural distinction between a kernel and a user interface is still very much present.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    17. Re:AN OS? by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1
      I can already hear some command line afficandos screaming, but that is not the point

      Check the article that this thread is attached to. It's about blind people being able to use the computer. And how are they going to do that with a fancy-snazzy Windows 2005 UI complete with monkeys and bananas?

      A command line, OTOH, is trivial to handle: just connect a keyboard with a braille line, and you're set.

      An average user uses more of the UI than the command line.

      Yes, this is true. However, we are not speaking about average users here. We are speaking about blind users. Even if the average pedestrian prefers stairs, this is still not a reason to do away with ramps.

    18. Re:AN OS? by TheWormThatFlies · · Score: 1

      I suspect that the question was worded by someone more familiar with the Windows/Mac world, in which the operating system and user interface are bundled together in an inseparable blob (or at least inseparable from the average user's viewpoint) and referred to, collectively, as "the operating system".

      I've already seen some posts which question the efficiency of writing a whole operating system especially for blind people, and wondering if the filesystem should have a fundamentally different structure. Sigh.

      I think most people agree that we should be talking about the user interface to the operating system (I won't say "window manager", because I'm not convinced that the window metaphor would be very useful in an interface for blind people). Naturally, this is a much smaller and more focused task. There's no reason why someone can't develop a user interface layer especially for blind people, which is completely useless to sighted people. Everyone can run whatever interface suits them the best on top of their OS.

    19. Re:AN OS? by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Is Mac OS an OS? Well, Darwin is.

      And what, pray tell, does the "OS" in Mac OS stand for? Perhaps the authors of Mac OS disagree with your definitions. Or maybe not, maybe it is all a marketing gimmick.

      What about Windows? Well, guess what: THERE ARE WINDOWS BOXES WITH NO BITMAPPED DISPLAYS OR MICE!!!! So, if you can remove the user interface, does that still make the user interface part of the OS?

      So? Do you know what CLI stands for? Command Line Interface. Replying to a thread specifically discussing non-graphical interfaces should have tipped you off to the fact that interfaces do not have to be graphics, or even visual at all. Because you can remove a part of an OS you argue that means that part is not part of the OS? So if I can remove all sound support, then sound support is not part of the OS? How about punch card support? If some OS's don't support punch cards at all does that mean punch card support can't be built into an OS? I'm not sure what exactly your argument is here?

      The online dictionary of computing defines and operating system as:

      (OS) The low-level software which handles the interface to peripheral hardware, schedules tasks, allocates storage, and presents a default interface to the user when no application program is running.

      The OS may be split into a kernel which is always present and various system programs which use facilities provided by the kernel to perform higher-level house-keeping tasks, often acting as servers in a client-server relationship.

      Some would include a graphical user interface and window system as part of the OS, others would not. The operating system loader, BIOS, or other firmware required at boot time or when installing the operating system would generally not be considered part of the operating system, though this distinction is unclear in the case of a rommable operating system such as RISC OS.

      I'd say the default interface is an interface wouldn't you?

      Perhaps you should read some more books on software architecture before being so sure of yourself.

      I've read a number, thank you. I looked at five dictionaries online and not one of them had a definition that precluded a user interface, while three specifically included it. If someone asks another person what operating system they are running the most common answer (other than I don't know) will probably be a version of windows. Of the dozens of software engineers I know, I bet every one, when asked what OS they run, would say either Windows, Mac OS, some linux distribution, or one of the BSDs. Just because you can remove the graphical components of all of those does not mean anyone does or that the interface components are not part of the OS.

      The English language is a living language and a textbook definition from some multics manual from the 70s does not change what an OS is today. "Gay," usually means you sleep with people of the same sex. "OS," means the kernel, userspace, interface, services, window manager, etc. Move on, everyone else has.

    20. Re:AN OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Whatever the case, it doesn't matter if the person was informed or not; by both of y'all showing your asses, you've contributed a little bit more to one of the problems, rather than a sensible solution."

      Correcting someone makes them asses? 2+2=5

    21. Re:AN OS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If UI and kernel are so cleanly separated, why do all Unix kernels have console and tty drivers built-in as a non-optional feature? Why does Windows have GDI right in the kernel?

      I think it's reasonable to give blind users a kernel designed specifically for them. For example, take out the VT100/ANSI escape sequence emulation cruft and replace it with something that blind users will actually be able to experience. If the user will never see the "switch color", "change to bold", "move cursor here", "clear screen" escape sequences, they're just adding bloat to the kernel. Likewise if the kernel is bending over backwards to present 32-bit color animated cursors, that's a waste of both memory and processing power.

  29. I think this is meaningless question. by kclittle · · Score: 1
    It's not clear to me which portions of an modern OS (that is, the kernel) are somehow influenced by the assumed form(s) of input/output. A kernel is concerned with resource management: memory, processes, scheduling, etc. Why should these primitives even know about specific forms of I/O?

    IMO, specific flavors of interfaces (keyboard, mouse, voice, vision, smell, whatever) should be the realm of drivers, not the core parts of an OS that one would "right from scratch".

    --
    Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.
    1. Re:I think this is meaningless question. by kclittle · · Score: 1
      LOL! "write", of course. Maybe the OS I write from scratch should have a spel'n chekr?

      --
      Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.
  30. FINALLY! by drewzhrodague · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It must not be so obvious to other people, but this is quite obvious to me. Computers don't necessarily need screens, we don't need to be hand-eye-coordinating little pointers on screens anymore. FOr those of us that have (most of) our sense intact, doesn't it make sense to not shunt them into a little tiny box?

    So I'm talking about UI.

    Does it make sense to use a mouse to click the start button while you're in bumper-to-bumper traffic, and driving a manual transmission? I can't imagine why this is still the case. Hay you UI and interface designers -- take a lesson from those of us who can't hear, or can't see, and imagine how they'd get things done. Same concepts can and should apply to handhelds, phones, PDAs, remote controls, etc. There are far more attractive (women) things to look at than little blinkety gadgets. Also, lots of user-wishes can be infered from small sensors (photodiode, accelerometers, available Wi-Fi networks), and the laptop doesn't really have to be open all the time in order for us to be connected and informed.

    Please take a lesson from the needs of our blind and deaf brothers -- and enlighten the UIs for everyone.

    --
    Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
    1. Re:FINALLY! by Vortran · · Score: 1

      It is virtually impossible to imagine how a blind person does things unless you are a blind person (which I am not). I have heard stories of blind people running table saws and sewing machines. I have no idea how this is done anymore than I can imagine how a blind person would fly a helicopter or ride a bicycle or mow lawn.

      Call me unimaginative, but I think it takes being there to know what a blind person really needs/wants from a computer. I'd start by ASKING a blind person - a whole bunch of blind people - how to proceed.

      Vortran out

      --
      Knowledge is like ignorance.. too much can be just as bad as not enough.
    2. Re:FINALLY! by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

      This gives me an idea.

      How about a special key (a-la alt-tab) for switching tasks, and a tone (or perhaps sample, like flute / piano / string) to tell you which task you're in?

      Of course if you can't understand, press another key and you'll get the same tone/instrument, followed by the task name.

  31. Overheard at WDC2005 keynote by theurge14 · · Score: 1

    Attendee #1: How do you think he does it?
    Attendee #2: I don't know!
    Attendee #1: What makes him so good?
    Attendee #2: Maybe it's the black turtleneck.
    Attendee #1: Maybe there's something in that bottled water of his.

  32. You're asking the wrong people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ask VICUG-L, blindprogramming.com, and/or the magnifiers.org mailing lists, probably many other places that are better to ask. You expect to get useful info from /. regarding computer accessibility?

  33. Does deaf make a difference (for OS design)? by G4from128k · · Score: 1

    I have sound muted on nearly all my computers -- that I can't hear them makes little difference to the OS or OS design. At worst, audible alerts need only be replaced by a flash of the menu-bar. Being blind would be a whole other matter.

    The point is that some "disabilities" have little impact on OS design, other have a huge impact and each disability affect OS deisgn in different ways.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  34. Rockbox - MP3 Player OS For Blind Users by meehawl · · Score: 2, Informative

    The open-source mp3 player OS Rockbox includes a "Talking Menu" option that will read back commands, playlists, and song/file information. It's very useful for blind users, as well as sighted hands-free/driving use.

    --

    Da Blog
    1. Re:Rockbox - MP3 Player OS For Blind Users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What would really impress me is an mp3 player for the deaf.

  35. first person shooter for blind OS by esobofh · · Score: 2, Funny

    your in a room - do you;

    1 go left
    2 go right
    3 go straight
    4 reload

    --

    ----------------------------
    Esobofh - Currently drinking fresh mango juice.
    1. Re:first person shooter for blind OS by kisielk · · Score: 1

      5 shoot ????

      or is this that new game, "Reloader" I've been hearing about ?

    2. Re:first person shooter for blind OS by esobofh · · Score: 1

      hah.. yeah i guess that would have been an obvious option eh :)

      --

      ----------------------------
      Esobofh - Currently drinking fresh mango juice.
  36. why post this on slashdot? by ne0n · · Score: 0

    Slashdot is so biased against blind people it's ridiculous. Even sighted people can't cope with m many of the captchas used to stop scripts.
    I put a particularly egregious example in my sig, there was no way to figure that one out.

    --
    $ :(){ :|:& };:
  37. Blind User by SomeOtherGuy · · Score: 1

    I have a blind programmer that works for me. He does a wonderful job considering the limitations.

    Some people think that improved "input method" using "voice technology" is the answer. From what I have seen is just the opposite. He does not have a problem inputing data with a keyboard just like the rest of us. The problem is with the UI's and graphic rich society that we live in today -- the software to read from the screen using voice tecnology is the weakness.

    He showed me some websites in Links that were some of his favorite sites that streamed into his headphones no problem. Then he showed me some sites that were impossible to make any sense out of in Links even with my eyesight -- and these were the same sights that were ugly and hard to manage even with a modern browser and full eyesight.

    Not just with HTML, but as I watch him use various other programs and tools -- it is ironic how the same programs and UI designs he has problems with are the same ones that I find poorly designed and cludgy even with eyesight.

    XML has been a Godsend to him, as we have been able to take RSS feeds and parse to into plain jayne text files or even his portal at bloglines.com and let him enjoy some of the stories and content without all of the multimedia and advertising timebombs that he had to deal with in the past....(As long as the sights XML feeds are full feeds and not just "teasers".)

    --
    (+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
    1. Re:Blind User by theurge14 · · Score: 1

      In other words, "Keep It Simple, Stupid" should still be applied.

    2. Re:Blind User by kclittle · · Score: 1
      One of *the* most talented programmers I've had the pleasure to work with was legally blind. His vision was (as he described it), like looking through a straw. He was extremely good at picking out flaws in a user interface, especially those where the developers tendencies toward "wow-watch-this" glitz was getting in way of simple-and-good.

      --
      Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.
  38. Re:Ok, blind/deaf are covered, what about the dumb by PaxTech · · Score: 4, Funny

    There already exists an OS for the dumb. It's called Windows.

    *rimshot*

    --
    All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
  39. Deaf need visual cues by blondieeng · · Score: 2, Informative

    Okay, "haha" about the Deaf jokes. As a female (gasp!) Deaf computer user (abuser?) what I need is a captioning feed for videos. Popular news sites routinely feature video news clips but they are meaninless to me without knowing what is being said. How about some captioning? Too expensive? It sure seems so because I sure as hell never see it. As for Braille, not all blind people know Braille and legally blind people usually have *some* sight and prefer to utilize their sight as best they can along with screen readers.

    1. Re:Deaf need visual cues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suggest you try Linux; since I installed it I've never had to worry about viewing video clips on popular news sites.

    2. Re:Deaf need visual cues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A girl on slashdot!

      Marry me sweetie, and I will type the subtitles on all videos you watch ;)

    3. Re:Deaf need visual cues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent informative !
      Us Linux users dont need no video, we just kill time watching all the mind numbing tons of tex just scrol by, without actualy producing anything useful on the screen. Ofcourse linux fanboys will drool "Wow! the best UI ever !!"

      I am sick of the Linux fanboy or thos who pretend to be one on Slashdot. I have statistics from a webserver that shows only about 10% of the readers use Linux. Ofcourse its just a random sample but many others have pointed the same and Wikipidia article on slashdot also says the same.

      I have profiled the average slashdotter to be in a low paying tech support or grunt programming, "tech guy" sysadmin job, with no college education (from the number of comments against education), no knowledge about the linux internals (from the lack of knowledgeble posts), takes interest in politics of software/government (ok that is a very good thing) and has this opininon he is the greatest sysadmin/programmer etc. Not to mention the lack of Gf or living in mothers basements althoufgh that is overrated.

  40. For a deaf, dumb and blind kid... by sfh · · Score: 1

    you'd better make it look like a pinball machine?

  41. I wouldn't by kfg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think this is one of those cases where it isn't mere pedantry to point out that the OS and the shell/interface are two very different things and that what you want is an interface designed from scratch for the blind.

    You can use any already existing decent OS as the base.

    You do not have to reinvent the wheel to invent the wheelchair.

    If it were me I think I would start out by trying to scratch build a decent IRC client. What you learn by doing that will teach you things you will need to know about such interfaces before you start out at a lower level.

    KFG

    1. Re:I wouldn't by 51mon · · Score: 1

      "You can use any already existing decent OS as the base."

      I'm not convinced it can be done easily. I assume part of the reason this question got featured was the report of blind and deaf people feeling excluded by technology (I'm not sure they are alone in that feeling).

      Part of this is that the technology needs to be useable from the "get go", so that the visually impaired aren't (always) dependent on sighted people to get them started (or to reinstall when they mess up - like we all do from time to time). For most systems this would be a ground up redesign hardware and software (The new Apple IMac s might be good base to start from, large high contrast screen, sound built in, virtually no cables to plug in, it already has some okay accessibility features in MACOSX, but I really hate that screen reader).

      For starters my computer here has no non-visual clue as to which is the power on button, or which socket is for the microphone, and which for the speakers/headset.

      You can just about feel which way up a CD should be, although figuring out which is the CD drive button (and which is down with vertically mounted CD drives....). Does the OS come on more than one CD? If so how do I know which to use first.

      Screen readers suck big time, but you probably want an OS that does load screen readers early (do any load sound drivers THAT early?), and support from braille readers for those that need them (some of the bootable GNU/Linux CDs load braille device drivers early, but even then it is rarely at the point the OS starts spitting output to the screen. They are going to get very stuck if the boot stops with "LI" on the screen if they can't even hear/read/feel it (trust me it is bad enough when you can see it).

      Braille is a distinctly minority activity, as mentioned earlier, most visually impaired users have some vision (most with no vision either don't know braille or are inexperienced), so we want to load accessibility stuff to zoom the screen as early as possible. Ideally in the installer, or in the initial loader (think accessible GRUB/LILO, even BIOS - although hopefully BIOSes can be simplified out of existence, most people never need to interact with the BIOS other than to set boot device order, and that is a pretty simple task we could do at boot).

      We haven't even got our OS installed yet, wait till I get to application issues ;)

      The good news is a lot of the changes required would make computing a damn site easier for people without disabilities.

    2. Re:I wouldn't by kfg · · Score: 1

      Boot scripts are not the OS either.

      KFG

    3. Re:I wouldn't by 51mon · · Score: 1

      No but most real OSes present information from kernel level code at Boot, especially when something goes wrong. Worse still some default to presenting no useful information to the visually impaired user, think vaguely animated horizontal bar, whilst booting. Defaults matter here, can't expect people to magically know secret key presses.

      The question isn't whether this or that is technically part of the OS, but how much work it would take to make the OS accessible.

      Doesn't matter if a boot loader isn't part of the OS, if all the available boot loaders for an OS are inaccessible, there is still a given amount of work to do before the OS can even be booted in an accessible fashion.

  42. OS design for people with disabilities by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1


    My opinion is that a microkernel is better for blind and deaf users than a monolithic kernel is. And it goes without saying that the filesystem should support journaling!

    Um, shouldn't we be discussing USER INTERFACE for blind/deaf users, not the broad and mostly irrelevant topic of OPERATING SYSTEM?

    1. Re:OS design for people with disabilities by pizen · · Score: 2, Funny

      ding ding ding!

      I think the blind and deaf would benefit from a preemptive scheduler in addition to a journaling filesystem.

  43. tactile feedback by name773 · · Score: 1

    how about braille on the keys themselves? blind people would be able to learn the keys more easily.

  44. Neural Implants by vortex2.71 · · Score: 1

    Obviously the deaf OS is pretty much covered and Apple has a passable blind OS, so I wouldn't waste any time on the cooky touch based devices that many people are suggesting. Rather, I'd go right to something that interacts with our brains directly. This would be great for everyone actually and would work just as well for blind and deaf people. The fact that we live in a world where monkeys are playing pong with their brains leads me to believe that we should just jump to the endgame. Of course, UPS protection would definitly be a must to avoid those dangerous power surges!

  45. Re:i worked at a blindness charity on the computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yeah kinda like the blind leading the blind?

  46. New runlevel by Intron · · Score: 1

    The graphical version of an OS like Linux is just a runlevel starting the graphical set of services: X, gnome or kde, etc. runlevel 3 is text only. You could just build a small set of new I/O services and add a new runlevel to Linux (or BSD for that matter) instead of a brand new OS. That would allow it to boot to normal mode or the new mode as desired.

    A set of services for the blind might include text-to-speech for output,for example.

    --
    Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
  47. Re:One way to cut costs - outsourcing! by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Funny
    > > Well, at least for BlindOS you don't have to worry about writing video drivers...
    >
    > Unless your tech support/any other user of the machine isn't blind.

    Ah, this is about finding an OS for tech support folks in India. They could be blind, because all the work is done over the phone. Spending five minutes on the phone proves they're deaf. And the quality of the solutions proves that they're dumb.

    Ever since I was a young boy,
    I took the support call,
    From Delhi down to Bangalore,
    I must have played them all.
    But I ain't seen nothin' like him
    In any support-cube hall,
    That deaf, dumb and blind tech
    Always says "re-install!"

    Sits there like a statue,
    He's a voicemail machine,
    Please to reading from scripts,
    Keeps his call queue clean,
    Bullshits by intuition,
    Never seen him fall,
    That deaf, dumb, and blind tech
    Always says "re-install!"

  48. Hmmm... by suitepotato · · Score: 1

    Windows definitely has the head start with a huge number of speech synthesis and speech recognition apps availible, but no real "grabs my attention and makes me want to buy it" suite.

    That being said, Linux might have the leg up when it comes to being open to wild experimentation.

    One thing that has always annoyed me is that speaker independent recognition hasn't been married to the Internet age. If the well-trained recognition systems' data from thousands of different users was only shared over the net and a good synthesis constantly being refined using all that live data, we'd probably have it standard on every OS right now. "Mod that post down now!"

    "Which post?"

    One way to train a speech recognition system might be to create a better speech synthesis system and give it hours and hours of different scripts to speak, each one with a different voice, over and over. Instead of training it based on forty real people, feed it seven thousand virtual ones in one tenth of the time, electronically. If the tester designing the regression cases understands the speech to be conforming to the script, then tell the machine that this is what the script says and add that data to the database as permissible input and evolve the filters.

    Instead, you open up Dragon or ViaVoice and have to read fairy tales and poetry to it until it understands that you said "hard drive" and not "hard on". I tried dictating a novel I was writing to both of these systems and after four hours of training both, I spent more time doing corrections than writing the book.

    --
    If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
  49. I recall by Decameron81 · · Score: 1
    "I work for a team developing technology for individuals who are blind and I have had the opportunity to use some screen reading software and while there have been leaps of progress it is still quite tedious to use, and not at all user friendly. One of my managers recently posed an interesting question for me: 'How would you design an OS from scratch that would target individuals who are blind and/or deaf?' What about inputs such as keyboards or refreshable braille devices?"


    Back when I was studying at college I remember this guy with a small laptop attached on top of a black plastic device. The device was to the USB port of the computer. It was possible to pull out a sort of secondary keyboard out of this device that would have refreshable braile text.

    I can also remember was that this guy was using Windows XP and headphones, so there ARE solutions out there that can be used as an example. I think the guy used headphones for voice feedback and the braile "keyboard" to read the last few lines he had written.

    Not sure if this qualifies as an user friendly approach though. I think that it's always a really good idea to offer as many solutions as you can come up with to a group of possible end-users (in this case blind/deaf people) and see what they tell you. This way it should be easier for you to understand what their concept of user friendliness is.
    --
    diegoT
  50. Command line for the blind by Marcion · · Score: 1

    Graphically (i.e Windows, X) based OS for the blind, e.g. Jaws etc, are the stupidist piece of crap. Think about it:

    The computer runs on text > then represents it with graphics > then the assistive technology attempts to represent the graphics with text > the text is spoken.

    When you get a windows error message the user is stuffed.

    Occam's Razor would suggest that for blind people a better solution would be:

    Command Line > spoken aloud.

    Links/elinks/links2 can be used for Internet
    Other Bash apps can be used: Vi, Emacs, MP321 whatever you want.

    1. Re:Command line for the blind by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      Yeah, design and program the computer from the other end of text spoken from an RS232 port. Then every kernel panic and boot message would be plainly spoken. No fancy ASCII tricks, positioning or anything.

  51. Wrong Question. by uberdave · · Score: 0, Redundant

    You don't need to design a whole new OS, any UNIX variant will do just fine. What you need to design is the USER INTERFACE.

  52. Is this really an OS question? by Macrobat · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I guess I'm being a little nit-picky, but what difference to a blind person does the method of loading device drivers or allocating memory really make? That is, is this even a question that needs to be answered on the OS level? It seems more like an application level issue.

    --
    "Hardly used" will not fetch you a better price for your brain.
  53. Mac OS9 was most blind freindly OS ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Mac OS 9 was the most blind enabled ever, even for 'refreshable-braille"

    The reason... for the first 10 years maybe 15 years EVERY developer followed EVERY rule and used the official GUI and official controls (with text labels in them) and the compter gui was also mode-less, as well as very intuitive.

    Sadly... apple hired cretinous morons who destroyed the gui in apples own idiotic tangential offerings ruining everything.

    At one point in their own written standards manual 'HUMAN INTERFACE GUIDELINE" apple proposed that COMMAND-C which means "copy" (except under a few versions of dvorak keyboard mappings) was to not mean copy, but was to mean "CANCEL" if a cancel button was visible in a dialog!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

    The Next was idiotic in version 0.9 of NeXTStep OS and Command-2 was duplicate but they eventually changed it to Command-D for all apps.

    But OS9 was flawless, and every app worked well with blind software, and people rarely double bufferred pixels, and even if they did, it was easy to track the blits because the OS bitcopy commands were always used by all programmers so text strings could still be located without ever ever using "screen scrapers" to perform OCR crud.

    Blind worked great on macs.

    As for blind-AND-deaf ... same thing... but the issue becomes a matter of two handed browsing on a screen. On hand moved on a tablet and the other hand received braille on fingertips

    eventually i got a job at a company that sold such software (AT A FINANCIAL LOSS BUT FOR CHARITY) called Berkely systems. They even employed fulltime blind employees to test the windows-only version which was a poor substitute for perfect competing mac OS9 versions. Why? becuase no wintel idiots followed any standards ever for getting text onto a screen or following GUI guidlines for controls.

    The Mac OS9 is still useful. might as well stick with it. Apple distributed LowVision screen zoomers (an optional control panel on the installer CD) for years standard free with all copies of mac OS for people with extrememly poor vision.

    1. Re:Mac OS9 was most blind freindly OS ever by mjkjedi · · Score: 1

      This is a very good point. The OS itself isn't really an issue at all -- it's the visual interface, and how applications interact with it.

      I think the OP is going down the wrong path by considering the OS. The real issue is the APIs used, and how consistently they are used by the application developers. If everyone plays by the rules, it should be much easier to translate their UIs into non-visual forms.

      The problem being, of course, that this does not happen.

  54. Deaf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would you need a special OS for deaf users?

  55. The same as everyone else uses by AuMatar · · Score: 1

    The OS doesn't matter. Memory mnagement, hardware management, etc doesn't care if the user is blind, deaf, or other. Whats needed is specialized hardware for IO. Whats needed depends on the problem.

    Legally blind (bad vision but can see):
    WM needs to apply magnification to GUIs, and needs to anti-alias the enlargements. Since this will reduce screen space, it needs to either make heavy use of virtual workspaces or allow the workspace itself to scroll.

    Truely blind:
    Keyboard with modified keys with the braille for the keys on them. Voice output. A tactile output displaying Braille is also available these days and is great for text. Using them with GUIs is more difficult- you could probably do menus via an escape button (switching from output mode to menu mode and displaying the menu). Images with text, pdfs, etc are probably impossible to do at the moment.

    Deaf:
    No real changes needed, except a small popup in an out of the way corner when audio alerts come up. Destroy the popup after n seconds.

    Loss of limb:
    The main problem is a mouse replacement. Trackball or touchpad on the keyboard works well. Alternatively, a foot based control could work, and may be better in some ways (you could type and mouse simultaneously.

    --
    I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    1. Re:The same as everyone else uses by TERdON · · Score: 1
      Loss of limb:
      The main problem is a mouse replacement. Trackball or touchpad on the keyboard works well. Alternatively, a foot based control could work, and may be better in some ways (you could type and mouse simultaneously.

      How exactly were you thinking? With one arm left, you could type and use the mouse with that one. With none, you neiter can type or use the mouse - ie an alternative keyboard technology is needed...

      --
      I have a really elegant proof for Fermat's last theorem. If this sig was only a bit longer...
    2. Re:The same as everyone else uses by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Moving your hands from the keyboard to the mouse takes time, and its awkward. having it at least built into the keyboard reduces that. Heck, its annoying enough when I need to switch from mouse to keyboard, and I have 2 good hands to type with.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  56. Rotary braille reader by elgatozorbas · · Score: 1
  57. One for the notorious M$ fanboys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So Blind and Deaf users are not ready for the desktop either?"

    Sorry.

  58. He askend about designing, not existing ones. by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    To actually answer your question:
    I'd build a larger, fast and strong braile-type grid grouping each braile-type-patch within a elevated, push-button border to give at least as much input as a regular keyboard and as much output as a complex CLI. Add cording and you've got even more possibilities.
    I'd build out- and input all around it. It would be something simular to the bash or zshell cli combined with Turbovision - but without overlapping windows.
    The fast and strong grid would even make it possible to play action-like games. Given enough solid OOAD an interface like that could even join a party on World of Warcraft without much changing of the game. Maybe not as a standard character but as a sprite of fairy that flies around smaller obstacles by itself.

    I'm quite shure this all could be achived with an open source unix variant with no sweat at all. You'd have to build the interface device and get going with some basics but from there on I'd actually leave it to blind developers to build their own system.
    And that would be a box that doesn't need a new GFX card every odd month to stay up-to-date. Unbelievable.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  59. What blind/deaf users would want by Vortran · · Score: 1

    I'd start by asking some blind/deaf folks what they need and want. I don't know what problems deaf people would have because I work all day on a computer with the sound turned off (not down, OFF).

    As for blind people... I've worked with blind people who use computers. In both cases they each had a voice reader for the screen which was so distorted and set to speak so fast I couldn't understand it. One of the two also had an 80 char braille monitor made by Freedom Scientific.

    What I can tell you is that in both cases, their online experience was slow and tedious. Essentially, it sucked.

    I'd love to hear from a blind person their thoughts on computer usage. To me, almost all data is essentially visual.. especially that data which is stored/coded digitally. Be it text or graphics, most of the data we have on our computers and networks was created with the intent that the recipient would be able to see it with their eyes. How do you easily and efficiently provide that to someone who is blind?

    I think the best solution(s) will come from people who are themselves blind and technically oriented - especially those who have always been blind.

    At the risk of being a naysayer, I think using computers will always be a less-than-perfect (to say the least) experience for blind people.

    Vortran out

    --
    Knowledge is like ignorance.. too much can be just as bad as not enough.
    1. Re:What blind/deaf users would want by randyflood · · Score: 1


      I think the most important thing for blind users would be the ability to filter out the trolls on Slashdot because, well, you know, it would take a long time to read through them with the brail interface and all.

      --
      Randy.Flood@RHCE2B.COM
  60. Obvious? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Blue Scream Of Death for blind people.

  61. Obligatory Hellen Keller reference... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Water, Helen... waaa-terrr....

  62. Make the error beeps really loud by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    and use bright colors for the warning/alert boxes.

    [grin]

    Actually, first make sure you have device drivers for all the devices that deaf and blind users tend to use - and rethink how you interact with them.

    Consider that they may have different levels of use - they may use magnifying lenses to read their screens [common], they may have large input pads or special mouse devices, they may use throat/chin/head input devices.

    Each person is different so you need to adjust to all the probable combinations. Some won't be able to hear a beep - or even see a pop up box not in their limited [if any] field of vision - so maybe a flash is better than a beep or a screen color shift or a vibration device.

    And make it adaptable for the telepathic upgrade when it comes out.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  63. It's already been done by joto · · Score: 1
    The perfect OS for blind people is any operating system using the command line, such as the many unix-variants, DOS, VMS, or anything else except windows or mac. And the perfect text-editor is line-oriented; e.g. ed) (or DOS's edlin :-)

    The problem isn't that such OSes or application software don't exist. The problem is that most tasks people do with PCs, is not something that is suitable for blind people.

    Case in point: most of todays office or "productivity" software is WYSIWYG. That is pretty silly for blind people. Having the perfect web-browser for blind people (lynx, links, or perhaps even better: w3m inside emacspeak) doesn't help much when web-sites use image-maps or javascript-menus for navigation, or drown the user in meaningless hyperlinks, taking hours to tab through.

    So how do you design the perfect OS for blind people? You don't. It's already here, and it's called linux (or ***bsd). And if blind people still want to use PCs for the same things as most of the seeing people use them for, they will have to live with some compromises. And maybe even use windows, because that's where you will find the best commercial accessability software...

    Sorry...

    (But then again, you shouldn't ask slashdot how to design an OS for blind people, you should ask blind people...)

  64. Easy-to-use Shell by EZR-2000 · · Score: 1

    Blind - I think that a Braille keyboard, combined with audio output from the computer instead of imagery and a shell, would be enough. However, I don't think we should expect people to learn Bourne, or even Thompson for that matter. Most seeing people don't want to learn those. However, a more user-friendly shell might work. It wouldn't be that hard to implement; it could even run on top of Bourne. Some examples:

    list instead of ls
    open instead of cd
    go back instead of cd ..
    remove instead of rm

    Etc. It'd be like Pascal is to C: just as powerful, but for meant for the masses.

    1. Re:Easy-to-use Shell by Richard_J_N · · Score: 1

      Except that most brailled devices only give you ONE line of text at 80 columns. Some of them are only 20 cols in order to reduce the cost. So the terseness of bash is actually a blessing.

      Besides which, learning a few dozen comands (cd,cat,ls,mv etc) is hardly going to take very long.

  65. user interfaces for the Deaf (Re:um...) by jejones · · Score: 1

    Yes, the Deaf can use GUIs, but...those GUIs tend to have a bunch of audio signals to indicate errors and the like. Not all of them have corresponding visual signals, and a generic "flash screen" doesn't let one tell different situations apart as easily as the variety of sound effects available. Heck, I'm surprised that GNOME bothers to give the "flash screen" option in addition to "flash window"; surely one would want to know the particular window having the problem.

    For that matter, written languages are second languages for many Deaf people. Suppose you were an English speaker, and given a computer that had all the menus, messages, and so forth in Finnish. How easy would that be to use? (If you're reading this, Mr. Torvalds, s/Finnish/Basque/, please.)

    Probably for the Deaf it's more a question of applications:

    Do TV viewing apps for those spiffy HDTV cards support EIA-708-B? (There's a LOT involved in full EIA-708-B support.) tvtime's captioning only supports drop-shadowed white characters; not very helpful with a light background.

    I know TTYs, to put it mildly, suck; they're stuck in the days of Baudot code, abysmal displays and glacial bandwidth...but still, many people use them. Is it possible to use one's computer to communicate with someone using TTY? (That's more a hardware question than anything else, to be sure.)

    There is, alas, no widely accepted way to record signed languages on a flat surface. (The 3D nature of signing makes it hard to do, but I wish someone would. IMHO the Deaf really need a Sequoyah.) The Deaf use webcams to communicate via sign where possible, where hearing people would use a text-based IM system. Are webcam apps convenient for deaf users? Do they provide features analogous to gaim/jabber/etc.?

    It's not that simple.

  66. In Soviet Russia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OB-Slashdot-post:

    In Soviet Russia, memory managers and filesystems knew they were being watched.

    Only North Koreans need disability-accessible queueing systems.

    All your photonic processors are belong to us.

  67. from scratch is a bad idea by scronline · · Score: 1

    Designing from scratch is probably one of the worst things you could do. Users are complaining there isn't any software out there for Mac all the time. An OS that's only for the deaf and blind would have even less market share and would be the last (if at all) OS to get software ported to it.

    Your best bet would be to use the power of Linux and OSS to create some form of a tablet that will raise little nubs for the borders and text on screen. Anything else would be....time consuming, and wouldn't have enough of a market to actually sell the product at a decent price. High prices mean the blind/deaf will just continue doing what they are already doing.

    So, yeah, get the source for KDE and start modifying it or atleast using it to make your own proprietary overlay to it. No licensing costs to jack up your bottom line, and it helps grow OSS.

  68. Support by Leroy_Brown242 · · Score: 1

    The problem with writing an OS specificly for a purpose so small, is that you'll find there are less people who care enough to maintain it, or it'll cost a bunch for the OS to support a team of people to keep it up.

  69. WTF by gwayne · · Score: 1

    do blind/deaf people use computers for?

    I don't have anything against disabled people. I think accessibility is necessary in many cases, such as sidewalks and building entrances.

    It's because of that 0.5% (or whatever) disabled users that software developed under U.S. government contract must be compliant with 509 accessibility requirements. This has an enormously counter-productive effect on some projects.

    Is it really worth the additional expense? Since the Internet is a smorgasbord of multi-media experiences, do media portals really generate content suitable, compatible or useful to accessible technologies?

    Not trying to troll, just curious. Sorry if I offended anyone.

  70. How about for Low-vision users (i.e. elderly?) by intheory · · Score: 1

    I'm happy this question got into Ask /. I recently was tapped to help find a solution for a dear grandma-in-law who has rapidly deteriorating vision, and has been using a 15" high-contrast monitor with the text set to like +30 for a while...but that solution is really not working for her. I've suggested Web..err..MSN TV 2, which a number of other low-vision people in her assisted living community use on their fairly large-screen TVs with much better success. She is hesitant to switch to it, because of having to balance a keyboard in her lap or bend over a TV tray to use it, which I guess makes sense.

    Are there other PC/Windows based solutions (other than a 17 or 19" monitor set to high-contrast) for low-vision users? We've tried using some screen magnifyer software, but its too confusing for her.

    Is that pretty much it?

  71. Managers? by bazonkers · · Score: 1

    One of my managers recently posed an interesting question for me...

    Peter Gibbons: And here's another thing, I have eight different bosses right now.

    Bob Porter: Eight?

    Peter Gibbons: Eight, Bob. So that means when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that, and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.

  72. I agree: mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Think you, I was going to say that.

    I think the proper question is how would one design a GUI, I mean, a UI for the blind and/or deaf?

  73. Deafblind? by Spazmania · · Score: 1

    If you're going to spend the effort, you should try to support Helen Keller as well.

    Perhaps some kind of device where mechanical pins pushed with electromagnetism pop up to form a physical equivalent of a monochromatic screen? The pins would form the braille letters and could form simple pictures as well. Then use a single-handed chording keyboard so that one hand is free to read the "screen." You could lightly "buzz" the location where the cursor is so that Helen knows where to "look." If you build it right, Helen would also be able to estimate the distance and vector from the current position to the buzz so that she could manuver the cursor to the current location, giving you the ability to "select" menu items on the screen, though it would probably be more convenient to type commands rather than select items.

    Then use a verbose mainly textual operating system. I doubt windowing would make any sense at all.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
  74. In which case... by jd · · Score: 1
    An OS requirement would be that all output streams should produce meaningful output as per section 508, if piped into a suitable device.


    The implication of this is that streams would be informational in nature, rather than presentational. Presentation would be a function applied at the device level, rather than imposed by the OS or underlying application.


    So, you have a core OS which runs the applications, and an I/O OS which handles the conversion of the informational streams into a presentation format that the user can, well, use.


    The upshot of this is that your PC would become a server, in a client/server system, and the peripherals would need to be "smart" enough to run a very minimal OS that handled the I/O that device supported.


    My guess is that you'd want to start off with Plan 9 or Inferno, as these are already geared towards a "shared resource" model, so should be easily extended to support this kind of concept.


    The added benefit for non-Blind/non-Deaf users is that, because the I/O is then application-independent, it would be much more customizable and infinitely easier to upgrade.


    The added benefit to ALL users is that because I/O would then be taken off the main processor entirely, I/O-intensive applications wouldn't kill background tasks, and vice versa. (To put it another way, you could compile the latest kernel AND play a DVD at the same time, as the CPU would no longer be a bottleneck.)


    The added benefit to the industry is that it would kill off the integrate-the-kitchen-sink mentality of developers and certain OS companies.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:In which case... by Unordained · · Score: 1

      http://www.pseudotheos.com/view_object.php?object_ id=1190

      I happened to rant about that the other day. We -should- redesign our UI toolkits, even if not for deaf/blind/etc. It's just smart from an app-design standpoint. As it is, it's really hard to make an app future-proof in terms of visuals (will it work with future theme support?) and cross-platform compatible UI-wise (it's getting easier by using more wrappers like wxWidgets, but those in turn are still vulnerable to OS changes.)

  75. Because each OS comes with its own UI by tepples · · Score: 1

    Maybe we should file a "request for clarification" from the author as to why they meant OS instead of UI?

    Probably because in practice the set of operating system distributions that come preinstalled on home and office PCs in the English-speaking world corresponds one-to-one with the set of distinct user environments.

  76. sure, use Linux by milimetric · · Score: 1

    For the people with hearing problems, I think a well designed GUI is the key. We take 70% of our input visually, so it should be easier to overcome the dificulties of a hearing impaired user than those of a user with vision problems.

    For those with vision problems, I've found quite a few links on software that will definitely help out. I'd suggest going with Linux because you can write your own stuff or customize something that's already written much easier.
    BLINUX
    General
    ORALUX
    ZipSpeak

    As far as making an OS from scratch for people with different needs, here's what I'd do: I'd make native support for ASP.net applications. The user would only get HTML output from any program they use, but with different interaction capabilities than the traditional web. HTML is already very sensitive to the needs of the visually and hearing impaired users, therefore, you'd be leveraging technology that already exists.

  77. Re:One way to cut costs - outsourcing! by Stradenko · · Score: 1

    not to pick nits or anything, but how does a dumb tech ever say reinstall?

  78. Bah by Stumbles · · Score: 1

    You don't need to create an OS from scratch. All you need to do is create a satisfactory tactile and/or auditory interface. Since I am not blind or deaf I'll leave it up to those who are to decide how such an interface should function.

    --
    My karma is not a Chameleon.
  79. It would benefit everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone needs options for input and output. I'd love to have a computer in my car that I wouldn't have to look at, or one that is quite useable in a small form factor (no keyboard or screen). Everyone has a variety of environments where traditional systems don't work very well. We have tried to force the current human interaces into things like palm pilots. It doesn't work too well.

  80. Don't design a new OS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You might design input/output devices for the blinds. You might design "bla user interface" instead of graphical user interface (GUI). But you don't need to design a new OS. Linux is just fine.

  81. not polliticaly correct, but obvious by v1 · · Score: 1

    I realize that blind or (and?!) dead people want to use a computer, but it's very possible that computers are just not a medium well-suited for them. We don't look for ways for blind people to drive cars. Maybe it's technologically possible, but it's not practical. There is probably no practical way for a blind person to use a computer with any degree of effectiveness. Maybe this is a waste of time trying to work on?

    Flame away, but at least admit I have a point worth considering.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    1. Re:not polliticaly correct, but obvious by SlowMac · · Score: 1

      You're right man! It would be pointless to spend time and money trying to develop an OS dead people could use. :D

    2. Re:not polliticaly correct, but obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      May you go blind and have plenty of time to sit around and think about this point of view.

    3. Re:not polliticaly correct, but obvious by Typoboy · · Score: 1

      a "CRT+mouse" computer may not be suited (to those 100% blind), perhaps. But there are lots of forms the human-computer interaction could take. Keyboard+spoken is just another form.

      This is a lot like saying (years ago, at least, and I've heard it said just a few years ago), "Computers only work in English. It's not practical to adapt them to other languages." Well, the first part may be true in many cases, but it's not that other languages don't suit the computer - it's just that it wasn't done (enter social/political/historical/economic issues).

      ---still trying to learn braille

    4. Re:not polliticaly correct, but obvious by v1 · · Score: 1

      Well yes, if you are in the minority that has a disadvantage, you'd be inclined to think you were deserving of all sorts of special considerations. That is what we would call a biased opinion.

      Besides, if my vision issues continue at their present rate, I will be legally blind by 2015 or so. So maybe I have a more relevent opinion than you? If I end up losing my vision, I don't expect to continue to use a computer. That'd be stupid. That's like driving a unicycle to work - maybe you can do it, but it's not very efficient and doesn't make sense on a lot of levels.

      Parapalegics don't use a stairmaster, deaf people don't use tape recorders. It just doesn't make sense for some people to use some things. You can always try, but it's folley, and I'm well within my right to point and giggle when someone tries to do something they have no business trying, and fails at, with complete predictably.

      This doesn't have to apply to people with disabilities, but it can certainly include them as an example of people trying to do things any sensible person would say is a waste of time and effort.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    5. Re:not polliticaly correct, but obvious by Bishop · · Score: 1

      Computers are ideally suited to assist the blind. Computers can quickly manipulate text and data into form better suited for the blind. Text to braille and text to speech are obvious examples. The problem is that the common software it not at all suited for the blind. It is all possible, it is all practical but no one has done it.

      The big problem is unless you are blind it is virtually impossible to imagine how a blind person would best use a computer.

  82. Went and checked 'em out by crovira · · Score: 1

    holy shit they're pricey. ($129, $149)

    I'm glad I can see (and hear.)

    Now if only I was coordinated enough not to wear out the backspace/delete key.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  83. Re:One way to cut costs - outsourcing! by idonthack · · Score: 1

    With one of those robot-voice-soundey thingies, like Stephen Hawking!
    ---
    LEEROY JENKINS!!!
    Generated by SlashdotRndSig via GreaseMonkey

    --
    Why is it that when you believe something it's an opinion, but when I believe something it's a manifesto?
  84. What does HPFS have to do with this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HPFS = pinball

    All Hail OS/2!

  85. But why are they so expensive? by tepples · · Score: 1

    One line, 81 characters, 6 pins per character, that's 486 pins. Now 486 pins at $10,000 is over $20 a pin. Why are they so expensive to manufacture? Or is it to recoup engineering expenses on a device with a limited market? In that case, when do the patents run out?

    1. Re:But why are they so expensive? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      There are a couple of issues:

      1. Actuators aren't cheap. You need one per pin.

      2. Margins have to be high because of the limited market. Lower cost items would put the company out of business.

      3. Development costs are high, due to a lot of custom parts.

      4. Because they can sell the devices for that much. I believe that the government has support programs that will pay for devices like these, so the prices tend to be somewhat inflated. (But not too much.)

  86. Wrong Question by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

    The question really should have been "How would you design a UI from the ground up for Blind/Deaf users." The OS has little to do with presentation and interaction. I know that the definition has blurred in recent years, but an OS is responsible for talking to the hardware and exposing such in an API for applications. It's the UI that the OP is asking about.

  87. Don't see the point of a OS for the deaf by Chowser · · Score: 1

    I echo other sentiments on not really seeing the point in an OS for the deaf. My brother is (near) deaf and is a computer engineer. He gets around just fine. Additionally, he and many others would take offense at a OS for deaf people as he would want to be in an environment as normal as possible.

    --
    sig here
    1. Re:Don't see the point of a OS for the deaf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am deaf and I totally agree with you.

    2. Re:Don't see the point of a OS for the deaf by afroborg · · Score: 1

      One of the links in the OP goes to a site for the deafblind (ie both hearing and visually impaired).

      Kind of makes it a bit harder I think because a lot of the solutions for blind people hinge on using sound to compensate for the lack of visual communication. If you also have that sense removed or impaired that would make it a lot harder.

      --
      my sig could kick your sig's arse...
  88. Blind co-worker by sleighb0y · · Score: 1

    Many years ago I worked at an ISP in Arizona, and another tech support guy was blind. He took calls, used the internal billing system and even logged into our Cisco 7500's to check link status. I forget the screen reader software he used (it had a shark for an icon).. but it was damn amazing to see him at work. He was quick and i'm sure the people on the other end had no idea he was blind.

    And for windows dial-up support, you really only need to know the names of what to click on anyway and you can walk anybody through it... especially the part where you tell them "Start...Shutdown...Reboot".

    1. Re:Blind co-worker by sleighb0y · · Score: 1

      HA, Maybe I should have RTFP, it has a link to it.. Jaws.

  89. Think sound! by EERac · · Score: 1

    For a completely blind user-interface (which seems to be the much greater challenge), people seem too set on braille/tactile interfaces. Braille is certainly a nice way to output text, but as someone posted, not all blind people know braille. Additionally, almost no sighted people know braille, which means a blind person couldn't use the computer with their sighted friend, nor could a sighted person help the blind person use their computer. More elaborate tactile interfaces would have similar short-comings, and what's worse, they would rely on technology that doesn't really exist yet (or rather, is just starting to exist). Also, though a text based interface is an easy solution, it's not a good one. There's no reason why your average blind person would like a text interface anymore than a sighted person. The interface should mimic the way a blind peson interacts with the world. They should have the ability to navigate in a space (perhaps with a mouse or 3D pointing device) and recieve feedback. The feedback should be given both in a tactile fashion and through sound. Using a pointing device you could feel when you "hit" an icon, and then hear it's name. Sound spacialization also offers a wealth of possiblities. Blind people would be quite capable of naviagating through a virtual space in which sounds and words suggested where things were. Ear-bud headphones along with the proper software could potentially do an excellent job of simulating 3D sound (check out a "binaural recording" to hear for yourself). Properly placed speakers would also work. Obviously there is lots to consider, but a good 3D sound-based interface might be useful for sighted users as well, allowing for sophisticated control of devices without screens (I could imagine, for instance, an iPod shuffle that let you navigate through a much larger music collection by reading the names of bands)

  90. you don't by Darth_Burrito · · Score: 1

    How would you design an OS from scratch that would target individuals who are blind and/or deaf?

    I think the best answer is that you don't. If you were to build such a thing, what applications would be available for your OS? Who would write applicatoins for your OS? How would your OS interact with the web. How would it open excel or word documents? It just doesn't seem like it would be possible to make something that could satisfy a fraction of the needs presently met by software designed for sighted people which can be accessed clumsily through JAWs.

    Of course, this doesn't mean you couldn't make a suite of applications designed specifically for the blind: email, word processing, an attempt at general purpose web browsing, possibly an application to deliver web data from specific sites in a consumable format (movie listings, news rss feeds, xml feeds, etc).

  91. Curse of the Fatal Death by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google is the biggest blind reader. Might they take some lessons from web standards in design of the OS.

    Now if the user is blind and deaf, I'm reminded of the best Doctor Who episode ever, Curse of the Fatal Death . Jonathon Pryce played the best Master ever too. Rowan Atkinson starred as ninth The Doctor. They ended up on a planet where the inhabitants communicated through flatulence.

    This got me to thinking that if you created a FartOS people really could say your OS stinks.

  92. Already done by TuringTest · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's called Archy. This OS is a redesign of the command line with a focus on habit-forming, not navigational use.

    The LEAP technique for quick positioning would make it better for blind users than a traditional CLI where users can't easily scan the output of a command. In Archy, users can touch-type the destination point and have it read in loud voice, instead of having to hear the whole text.

    --
    Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
  93. Console session? by boring,+tired · · Score: 1

    Seems to me that a standard unix text console would do the job. Make a braille display that's about 80x25, (or 80x1 and scrollable) and boot to a command prompt. The user can use Lynx to web browse, vim as an editor, etc. Much of the software is there already. Some enhanced task-switcher and screen reading software might be helpful too. It's not perfect but it does the job pretty well. It's just a matter of learning to use it. I'd prefer a GUI myself but it seems in this case a GUI would be more confusion than it's worth, unless they invent some sort of high resolution braille displays..

  94. As a deaf guy... by CODiNE · · Score: 1

    I'm using OS X and the visual alerts pretty much cover my needs. The only stuff that bugs me is games or training videos with no text layovers. I like how PBS online packages their movies in a QT format with a little checkbox sprite for "subtitles". Hopefully all online movie sales in the future will have this... otherwise I'm gunna hafta sue somebody. ;-)

    But if you wanna make deaf people go WOW... include a built in voice recognition program that can handle anybody's voice without any training. That way laptops could be used in SOME situations instead of an interpreter... and someday in the future this could be used to auto transcribe TV shows and old movies that never had captions added. But now I'm just getting all Star Trek here. :-)

    There IS a system of writing specifically made for the deaf, so that the full range of hand gestures and facial expressions can be conveyed without pictures and videos. (SignWriting) I think it's never going to really catch on though, videophones will kill it.

    For a non-English skilled deaf person I'd say a Mac with an iSight and QT Pro would be great, can keep all your personal notes in your own language quickly and easily now. No need to depend on a 2nd language.

    P.S. Deaf people LOVE iChat AV... once more of us get G5's, we're finally gonna have a deaf party line! SWEET!
    P.P.S. Bandwidth upload caps ruin our video performance... quit worrying about pirates and let us USE technology to make life better.

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  95. Easily interpreted? by Aldric · · Score: 1

    Most standard CLI tools are extremely cryptic. I think everyone would benefit from a redesign.

    1. Re:Easily interpreted? by SnprBoB86 · · Score: 1

      Agreed... there is just the little matter of breaking EVERYTHING to worry about...

      --
      http://brandonbloom.name
  96. ME by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As I remember ME was written by blind and deaf programers. At least it seemed that way.

  97. Wrong question! by gcantallopsr · · Score: 1

    WTF? The OS should probably be GNU/Linux or some BSD. Your question is about the interface: GUI, CLI, or something else?

    --
    Try Ubuntu GNU/Linux, it's great!!!
  98. Check out the following stuff from IBM... by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
    I toured the IBM Accessibility Lab the other day. They have some cool stuff, and there was a demo of some stuff including Jaws. First thing I can reccomend is to check out the IBM accessibility web site.

    Aside from that, you can also take a look at some pervasive-computing stuff. They're big into "multimodal technology" - XHTML+Voice provides a way to speak to the device or see your input on a screen (or, presumably, to view it in an accessibility-enabled web browser). Its key "secret" is that it can do much better voice recognition because you limit its vocabularies and grammars to the task at hand. See also the IBM multimodal web site, you can find these toys online, even!

    Oblig. disclaimer: I work for IBM. Heck, I work just down the hall from the Accessibility Lab and the lab formerly known as "Pervasive Computing". But I'm just a little intern, and I'll be gone at the end of the summer. Just make sure none of this stuff is construed as official IBM sanctioned stuff, promises, announcements, anything-like-that, mmmk? You know the drill.

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  99. Is this really necessary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am deaf and I use MEPIS, Mandriva, Knoppix and Fedora Core 3 without a single problem. The problem is not that I am deaf, rather the problem is that most hearing people automatically assume that because my ears do not function, my brain is also broken, which is not the case, and I need "assistance" - which is also not the case. I study computers, physics, law, electronics and mechanical engineering and have always felt that the lack of self-education is, on its own, the highest handicap.

    I can see the need for an OS, or software, that will integrate braille devices. But for the deaf? Not really necessary because the only thing I was missing in a Linux distro was sound, which is not really important to the deaf anyway.

    You want to help the deaf community? Don't pamper/hamper us.

  100. Needs by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I knew a pair of blind gentlemen who worked MSN Tech Support, and we set up a computer for the two of them to learn MSN Explorer with JAWS piped to speakers so they could both listen together.

    The experience left me both in awe of their ability to hear all sorts of detail and in disgust at the lack of accessibility. The the custom interface was made out of poorly named images. One particularly useless one (Image 14, IIRC) was the minimize, maximize, and close buttons, all together. This brought me to my thoughts on a vector-based UI. Imagine the convenience of smooth scalability across different resolution displays...

    Anyway, concerns that I can think of are as follows:

    1. API
    A series of abstracted interface methods should be made available. The categories are pretty simple... User Interface (menus, buttons, inputs), Text (static & editable text), Media (audio, video, pictures)... this is all off the top of my head, so feel free to improve on it. Each category simply defines a type of data, and then you can build ways to retrieve or interact with it.

    2. Registration
    I don't care if everyone puts their close button in the same place with the same icon. Visual users can typically locate these things. What they should do is then register that component with the UI Manager. Components could fall into multiple categories, i.e. a graphic on a web page with URLs mapped on it is both a picture and a series of links. Add a "group" indicator or hierarchy to properly collect controls and data together, and I think you have the basic needs covered.

    Using these two parts, we should be able to build simple command interfaces. The ability to define the set of controls, displays, and texts for a given interface means you can see them all at once, or hear or feel them in sequence. Your interface can choose to discard or delay extra media (no sudden advert noises on audio interfaces or no need to waste processing time on decoding the video portion of a media file) through a variety of user-adjustable settings.

    For visually-impaired individuals, I think the vector-based interface could make huge strides. Right now, you can buy a 21-inch monitor and set it to 800x600, or use a projector, but new laptops are still 1024x768 or higher. I listened in on a Dell Customer Service call from an older gentleman who loved the laptop he purchased, but couldn't read the high-res screen. If a vector-based interface was available that allowed his to change the point size - similar to Mozilla's Ctrl-Scroll size changes - he would have been fine.

    I think the key, and the hard part, is getting buy-in on this kind of pervasive detailing of interfaces. HTML/XHTML is a great start for this, because this kind of extension is very easy based on the nesting and pre-defined components on a page.

    Interfaces for the disabled or impaired could come in handy for everyone. These same advances are where the "technologies of the future" come from. Until we push the mouse away, we're stuck to the desktop metaphor.

    --
    That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
  101. Why an OS? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Its just the user interface you need to deal with, so why go and design 'yet another OS'?

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  102. It's like asking the KKK abt blacks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is, asking about the blind on Slashdot. Since they're no longer allowed to post, why even post topics about them? According to Taco, they shouldn't even be allowed to live. Taco, if I ever see you in person again, you will get punched right in the face for saying something like that about my little sister.

  103. I've always thought by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

    That eventually we would move to a audio interface...

    Most of the information we have conveyed to us comes through as text except for images and movie files.

    Images can be described for an audio interface.

    Plus it would be far easier to carry around, ubiqutous and not offensive to others, just the ability to record everything that is said around me as searchable text which I can somehow highlight would be increadibly valuable, my lectures... suddenly they could be .txt files which I could listen to at my leasure and speed preference while taking the bus home.

    All e-mail etc could be read to you.

    Plus for mobile computing it would have the simplest interchangeable link and be secure at the same time (through voice recognition).

    Just 2c

  104. Speech-recognition software by Zaulden · · Score: 0

    One area in which all OSs are really lacking is speech and voice recognition software. The only real viable piece of software out there right now is Dragon Naturally Speaking, and from personal experience, it is extremely poor for a child who cannot talk properly and can't type due to tremors.

    Until there is software that can pick out an individual's unique brand of talking, such as stuttering, slurring, etc., people who cannot type and talk well are going to be in the dark.

    --
    "Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so." - Ford Prefect
  105. First thing first. by multriha · · Score: 1

    If you haven't already, disconnect all your computer displays, and spend at least a week using the existing technology and software for the blind. Until you've had that first hand experience, you can't begin to consider the problem.

  106. Not an OS, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some ideas about an audio multitasking environment: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~parente/clique/

  107. Advantage of Ajax; HTML 4 by tepples · · Score: 1

    Linked article is full of pedantic old information

    Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 is an old web browser (from 2001), yet it is still shipped on 90 percent of new desktop computers.

    Have you read and understood the article BTW? Or do you just post it randomly when you see someone mention XHTML.

    I post it whenever anybody seems to advocate XHTML over HTML 4.01, which does work in IE. I guess I misread your intent.

    No web application requires javascript or AJAX or any latest greatest browser technology. Since when did serving information or feedback / interaction require anything above basic HTML syntax?

    Since the uptake of high-speed Internet access fell short of early predictions. The page model of the web implies requesting an entire top level page for each user operation. This tends to use a lot of bandwidth, especially if a user operation changes the state of only one item in a long list. Example: deleting one or more e-mail messages in a web gateway to IMAP; updating the view of the message list in a classical web application would require re-sending the list of messages, but doing so in an application using script, DOM, and XMLHttpRequest would require only deleting the TR element that corresponds to the messages that were deleted.

    requires lots of accessibility orientated tag attributes (alt, title, summary, scope, headers, label, etc.).

    So does HTML 4. In fact, XHTML 1.0 is just HTML 4.01 retooled to run within XML.

  108. Research Experiences by spoonboy42 · · Score: 1

    Designing interfaces for visually impaired users was a topic of my own research for a couple of years at ISEF and affiliated fairs while I was in high school. As far as interfaces go, I experimented with a braile keyboard (tried and true) and voice recognition (ammount of success varies depending on possible input vocabulary). One tool I found particularly useful for designing interactive voice interfaces using both speech synthesis and recognition was VoiceXML, which defines a markup language with basic scripting logic for quickly building voice interfaces. During my junior year of High School, I implemented a perl module for automagically generating voice interfaces (my ultimate goal was to create a replacement for the integrated cgi modules for live internet-aware voice apps), and showed it off by designing a basic newsreader app that pulled data from NewsBlaster (this was back in the day before Google News).

    My research experiences taught me several things. Firstly, it is important to offer auditory feedback for blind users. With voice recognition on a limited vocabulary, this isn't really a problem, as the user always knows what they said. With a broader range of input vocabulary, or with keyboard input, it's important to verify what has been entered at least every sentence or so, as there is naturally no way to provide visual feedback. Secondly, you must realize that all data being transmitted to the user is necessarily in a totally linear format. That means that, in any interface you are designing fresh, you should keep the interface as slim as possible. When you are reading out information that was originally intended for sighted users, some sort of adaptive content filtering is a must. If a blind user goes to slashdot, chances are "image, image, image, image, image, image, username, preferences, subscribe, journal, etc..." is not the first thing they want to hear.

    --
    Anonymous Luddite: "What do you think of the dehumanizing effects of the Internet?"
    Andy Grove: "Not Much."
  109. not an OS issue... by DreamWheezer · · Score: 1

    operating systems pretty much know nothing about the interface capabilities of their users...this is more of a user interface issue...

    that being said:

    a) profoundly deaf people who are not blind are not really an issue at this point since the primary output of computers these days is essentially visual (not being insensitive, just pointing out the obvious)

    b) profoundly blind people who are not deaf have relied on screen readers for some time...while they can appear crude to sighted people, I've seen some folks do amazing things with them...no doubt they can be improved...

    c) Profoundly deaf+blind is a large problem in many dimensions although touch interfaces (e.g. Braille and others) can help (also useful as an adjunct to screen readers)

    d) as pointed out else there are various degrees of these afflictions...sometimes something as simple as a magnifying glass is sufficient...and much depends on the individual as well...

    I have worked with people in all these categories except for "c"...various versions of Windows, MacOS, and *nix all have useful tools...

    _k

  110. How much is COGS and how much is margin? by tepples · · Score: 1

    1. Actuators aren't cheap. You need one per pin.

    How not cheap? How much of the $20 per pin is actuators and controllers and how much is margin? I wonder...

    2. Margins have to be high because of the limited market.

    It's possible to find uses for tactile displays other than for blind people. This expanded market could lead to economies of scale that increase supply across the board.

    3. Development costs are high

    Which is why I asked when the patents will run out, so that other companies could compete for the dollars that governments are willing to pay to give these devices to blind veterans.

    4. Because they can sell the devices for that much. I believe that the government has support programs that will pay for devices like these, so the prices tend to be somewhat inflated.

    As comedian Chris Rock put it, "I wish you a merry welfare and a happy food stamp." It's the same argument about prescription drugs. I can point you to a lot of people on the political right who would disagree with your "But not too much" assessment.

    1. Re:How much is COGS and how much is margin? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      How not cheap? How much of the $20 per pin is actuators and controllers and how much is margin? I wonder...

      Looking at Digikey, I've got actuators at about 30 cents a piece. Unfortunately, that doesn't give the cost of control mechanisms, mounting, or wiring.

      It's possible to find uses for tactile displays other than for blind people. This expanded market could lead to economies of scale that increase supply across the board.

      Possible, but not likely. I don't know if you've ever worked for a medical company before, but the FDA regulations virtually guarantee that any product produced will cost 10x what it should and take 3-5 years to develop.

      Which is why I asked when the patents will run out, so that other companies could compete for the dollars that governments are willing to pay to give these devices to blind veterans.

      My point is that it really isn't patents. The exhorbant costs in developing this stuff means that they need high margins to stay in business. As a result, you're doubtful to find anyone selling them cheaper.

      As comedian Chris Rock put it, "I wish you a merry welfare and a happy food stamp." It's the same argument about prescription drugs. I can point you to a lot of people on the political right who would disagree with your "But not too much" assessment.

      It's not a great situation, but even medical companies can't push their markups too far. If they do, the result would be a media circus on par with the $100-hammer-stored-in-a-warehouse-that-no-one-ever -uses story.

  111. well, windows is for the dumb users by v3xt0r · · Score: 0

    but even the deaf and the blind know better than to waste their time with it.

    --
    the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.
  112. They miss out on Web Comics,.. by DNA+Beast · · Score: 1

    People are getting better at considering accessibility on web pages but blind people still miss out on the joy of web comics. My recent web comic is dynamically created and with a little tweaking I've been able to make it work sensibly with a screen reader.

    check it out at http://www.invisiblespiders.com/fymd/

    If you've got speech software setup, try having it read (and narrate) the comic.

  113. Apple VoiceOver dosen't work by Bishop · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately while VoiceOver looks neat it dosen't actually work in practice. Try it some time. Turn off your monitor and try to do something simple like read and send an email. Bonus points for using the address book.

    There are two problems with VoiceOver and Magnifier. These tools were designed by people who have good vision. The bigger problem is that computers are visually very intensive. Not just gui apps, but most programs since the one line at a time teletype make heavy use of a display.

    What visually impaired (both blind and nearly blind) people need are applications designed specifically for them. It is much harder then it sounds.

    1. Re:Apple VoiceOver dosen't work by indiechild · · Score: 1

      VoiceOver apparently was designed with the help of blind users. You'd actually be surprised how much information blind users can absorb from seemingly mundane cues.

      Just because it doesn't work for us with our eyes closed doesn't mean it's not a good solution for blind users. I'll reserve my judgments till the reviews from blind users come in.

  114. Ever think of trying LYNX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lynx is a text oriented web browser that comes with most flavors of LINUX. I'm running Fedora Core 4 and under Desktop>Preferences>Accessibility there is a screen reader option. Not sure how to launch the screen reader from the command line (only because I haven't checked). Basically Linux provides a FREE solution (it could be made better though... just need a subnet of developers with time to roll something together). JAWS is a great program though, it's been around a long time. I delt with people that used it in the past and they were well pleased with the system and the support they got. Good uck!

  115. Deaf Video Gamers by flerchin · · Score: 0

    With a deaf wife who loves video games (hot too, aren't you all jealous!), I am acutely aware of how many modern video games do not have subtitles for the cutscenes and/or audio instructions. It just irks me to no end, since I know that at some point in the development cycle, the voiceovers were not completed and in their stead was text. So since approximately 5% of the US population suffers some form of significant hearing loss, the IT community can best reach out to the largest disabled community by ensuring a subtitle option for ALL video games. Not some video games (as it is now), not most, but ALL.

    --
    --why?
  116. Blind Programmers? by eikonos · · Score: 1

    I don't know about blind and deaf users, but sometimes I wonder if some Windows programmers are blind and deaf...

  117. What I do by JustOK · · Score: 1

    I donno about designing a whole new OS. For me, its more in the interface. I'm using stuff from www.phidgets.com (I'm not affiliated in any way other than being a satisfied customer) to build a simple interface for playing music on a PC. That is, physical buttons to control the app. Few other tweaks and hacks allows for navigation/selection of the tunes. Certainly, a whole new OS would be great, but is it really needed?

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  118. Use joystick, change sound pitch for spatial ref by synthespian · · Score: 1

    Hi --

    For blind users, I would use a joystick providing accelerating sound pitch and changing sound pitch as I approached certain "zones". These zones could correlate spatially to screen regions where one would have basic functionalities: a zone for applications, a zone for documents.
    The sound pitch would change correspondingly. It could indicate closer/farther. A voice synth would report applications as joystick cursor flies over it.
    Otherwise, semantic data would be extracted from semantic-web-enabled browser. This data would be voice synthesized.

    My gues on deaf users is that they can basically use what we use. However, I know from a lady psychologist that there are some cognitive differences between hearing and signing people. Metaphors, for example, she tells me is a hard-won acquisition. These cognitive differences would have to be taken into account. Perhaps, a very clear visual metaphor would be in order (like the "file" metaphor that's very hidden nowadays).

    --
    Main difference between the BSD license and the GPL license: one is from California and the other is from Massachusetts
  119. OS dedicated for the blind or a blind-friendly OS? by peterkorn · · Score: 1
    If you are looking to design an OS specifically for the blind (vs. legally blind/low-vision), look to http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/. This was design by a blind person for himself and other blind users - a complete speech/audio environment within emacs. It isn't an OS, but is a fine example of a UI to consider in making a blind persons' OS.

    On the other hand, if you are looking to make a blind-friendly general OS, then look to the "3rd generation approach" to accessibility in GNOME, Mac OS X v10.4, and Longhorn. All of these are doing API-based accessibility, where every object on the screen implements a rich accessibility API which is taken together and then re-presented to the blind (or others with other disabilities). In GNOME this is with the open source Gnopernicus screen reader (see http://www.baum.ro/gnopernicus.html). In Mac OS X v10.4 this is VoiceOver. Longhorn hasn't declared itself fully on this topic yet.

    A final thing to look at is the work my co-worker Willie Walker and the University of Toronto Adaptive Technology Resource Centre did with the a speech Look and Feel for Swing.

  120. Point one by gmhowell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My wife uses some of these devices (BrailleNote QT) and the biggest problem is using the wrong underlying operating system. DOS and Linux work just fine when translated to the command line; the WinCE that underlies her machine sucks. Hard. Sure, it gives a bare modicum of device and software (read: Outlook) compatibility, but at the cost of needless hardware overhead, and a special version of the three finger salute.

    Asking 'what about blind and/or deaf' shows a bit of lack of understanding. The best replacement for the blind is speech. The only option for DB is refreshable braille. I suggest you and/or your employer make some contact with DB groups. At a DB camp a couple of weeks ago, some devs and sales reps from some tech outfit (forget which one) displayed their wares. The kneejerk /. response is "did they contribute for their market research?" To which I say "sod off". The market is fairly small, and should be one with a tighter feedback loop between vendors and users. My email address is non-obfuscated should you need some ideas or contact info for some groups.

    Finally, expose the API and make some generic libraries available to use to people who like to program. PulseData/HumanWare wants, I belive a dev kit fee. Umm, screw that. Entry level prices on the BrailleNote are ca. $3000, IIRC, so there's plenty of money out there. Not sure about you, but Franklin Scientific, Blazie, PD, etc. are Hardware companies. Let a little bit of "Open Source"ism do some development for you. There is tremendous word of mouth, and if some third party makes some brilliant add on, it will get around the community. Depending on how you license it, you may be able to ship later. (Personally, I would go BSD or LGPL.)

    In summation:

    1. Don't confuse blind and deaf and deaf-blind. Each is unique with unique needs. An attempt to be all things to all people will either have stratospheric costs or poor quality or both.

    2. Ask your customers instead of some random slashbots. They are out there.

    3. Build it from the ground up, since you'll likely have bizarro hardware anyway.

    4. Make it possible to program for it. It (the DB group) is a tight community, with lots of people looking out for others, so it's not like you'll be helping a competitor. Think of third parties as value added.

    5. (Not mentioned above, but kinda goes with 2) Update your freaking website with real, up to date, and complete information. Have a company policy of a real, human reply to all correspondence within x hours, where x72. Even "I got your note and am investigating your concerns" is better than some of what I get from PD from time to time.

    And a freebie. My wife never uses the voice prompts on her BN, but I activate them if I have to do tech support (needing an onsite geek is a bad thing, BTW). Try to get a speech synth chip that sounds better than the WOPR or Speak and Spell I had as a kid. Seriously. It's 2005, and every time I hear the voice, I expect to hear "Would you like to play a game?"

    --
    Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    1. Re:Point one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Finally, expose the API and make some generic libraries available to use to people who like to program. PulseData/HumanWare wants, I belive a dev kit fee. Umm, screw that. Entry level prices on the BrailleNote are ca. $3000, IIRC, so there's plenty of money out there. Not sure about you, but Franklin Scientific, Blazie, PD, etc. are Hardware companies. Let a little bit of "Open Source"ism do some development for you. .... (Personally, I would go BSD or LGPL.)


      That is exactly what I tried to do when creating libbraille... an open source (LGPL) library which supports more than 30 types of Braille displays (PulseData, F* Scientific, Blazie, EuroBraille, you name it...) with a simple common API.

      I can't really say that Braille display manufacturers are very cooperative (they are not _at all_). Which is stupid since this project has facilitated the creation of many applications using Braille displays, which in the end helps to sell more Braille displays.

      Since those Braille displays are very expensive (usually >5000$), I also created a virtual graphical Braille display with Gtk+ which can be used by developers to test how there application would be rendered in Braille. So feel free to test it...
  121. Interesting projects, but... by Ingolfke · · Score: 2, Funny

    I can't seem to find any screenshots. Has anyone seen the screenshots?

  122. Blind and Deaf by Fringex · · Score: 1

    When it comes to deaf members of our community, I can't see them suffering a real "handicap" in regards to using any available OS. As stated over and over in many threads.... OS's are more visual and less audio. Sound cards wouldn't matter to a member of the deaf community since in reality, they serve no purpose. With that said...

    An OS of the blind is not in need of a monitor since there is nothing to see per se. However there are certain things they can do that would allow them to be as efficient as one who has vision.

    The paradigm of a blind person comes down to the extreme use of two senses, hearing and touch.

    These two senses are what you have to build your whole OS around. The ability for them to hear and touch.

    Input - Is one of the most important features to a computer. You have to be able to input information so the computer can put it all together. The first attribute I will concentrate on is touch.

    1. I link you to this site as it has many one handed solutions to typing. I am most impressed with the Chording Keyboards for what I have in mind. As I am using the standard OS model we use today.

    2. The second step as I see it is to have a rather nice size active braile board that can constantly change at a rapid rate for navigation through said OS. This board will display a desktop so to speak. In braile it will be written through out the board what they are "feeling" or what we would be looking at.

    So if we were gonna use windows as a model the board would display like in the top left hand corner the My Computer Icon. At this stage it would be printed in braile on the board as to where they were touching. With a simple push on that location the board would change appropriately to what is available in that location for navigation.

    However you wanna keep it simple. You can't get all elaborate on the user. It has to be straight forward and to the point of what they are engaged in touching.

    In doing this you can actually (with some imagination) simulate many programs for touch purposes. Excel can be laid out through the pins and they can data entry these areas through touching.

    Audio - is an equally important feature that can be used with the board or as an alternative to the board. Voice navigation that is near flawless. I refer to it being right on and not nearly right on. Voice navigation similar to what OS/2 Warp 4 displayed to where a user can open anything that has an audio tag on it. So if I need to get to a folder deep in the hard drive directory without the senseless pushing of the braile pad, I can just say that folders name and it opens.

    Voice navigation allows for faster movement throughout the OS.


    The real key to an OS of this nature is to allow a member of the blind community to be apart of its entire design. Not just one member but many members. Allow them to help build it and test how it will come out. Whlie us that can see think some things would be good. (Like everything I mentioned, the might suck for someone who can't see). We have to allow them to be in full, 100% participation with the design of these computers as it is what they would use.

    In closing, Microsofts handicap features suck. All of them. If that is their idea of helping the handicap then they failed worse than anyone could possibly imagine. You need a fluid voice playback when reading text, not the gimp voice that is all staggery throughout any reading.

  123. Command- (not menu-) driven OS by Hal+XP · · Score: 1

    An OS for the blind should be command-driven. It might be argued that menus were designed precisely so users would not have to memorize cryptic commands. But for a blind user, it would be terribly inefficient (read, time-consuming) to be forced to listen to menu choices being read back. A command-driven OS would require an initially steeper learning curve in terms of memorizing keyboard short-cuts, but the effort is rewarded as soon as the user types "rf" for refresh, rather than wait for the text-to-speech (TTS) software to recite (1) Go to Site (2) Save Page (3) Reload Page, etc.

    An OS for the blind should be linear rather than spatial. A blind user should not be forced to grope for icons or other clickable hotspots in an invisible desktop. Reducing the number of choices a blind user must make to get a task done makes the OS more rather than user-friendly.

    Pasting a screen-reader atop a fancy desktop environment like Gnome or Mac OSX is not the solution. The solution is to get rid of the desktop manager and concentrate on making a better command language interpreter or shell.

    Bash, or the B(ourne) A(gain) SH(ell) is already way friendlier to the blind user than Windows XP, Bash has file-name and command completion, which should make it easier to "remember" commands. Just remember the first few letters of a long command and press tab.

    There are also a number of FOSS efforts to create the audio equivalent of a desktop. One is emacspeak, which is a lisp program that interfaces with the venerable emacs text editor and kitchen sink.

    There are also GNU/Linux distributions geared toward blind users, such as Oralux.

    --
    I'm a sci-fi vegan: I don't want the aliens to think we have as much right to live as the fried chickens we eat.
  124. My experiences in this field by rawket.scientist · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I have some undergrad computer science background, and work for a blind man. I've been trying to help make his computer more accessible to him.

    By way of background, he uses his computer (a Windows box on a university network) for e-mail and writing scholarly articles. His screen reading program is JAWS. He would like to use the internet more, but he's frustrated by a combination of factors, some JAWS-related and some related to inaccessible design. The boss is highly intelligent and has been blind from birth. He's very used to other adaptive technologies like Braille or Open Book (a program that uses a scanner to translate print to speech), but he's a complete computing novice.

    It's worth noting that the computing problems he has are completely different from those that I would face if I were blinded tomorrow. A lot of his trouble is just related to a poor grasp of fundamentals. It's very difficult to explain the difference between opening a folder on the desktop and browsing the contents of a folder through an application's Open dialog box. Compounding the problem is that the boss is ten years late to the party, and most of his sighted assistants take things like right clicking on objects for granted.

    On the other hand, he has some advantages that a recently blinded person would not. The boss is used to taking in huge volumes of information through his ears, and can absorb synthesized speech at a dizzying rate. He also reads and types Braille grade 2, and gets a lot of use from his Braille Lite, which is like a PDA for Braille users, with a special Braille keyboard and a refreshable display of dots. It's great for him, but the chord- and abbreviation-based systems of Grade 2 Braille, take a long time to learn, and wouldn't be useful to your grandmother, who's losing her vision to diabetes.

    So here are some of the problems I've encountered in my time with the boss:
    • Crappy mouse-only interfaces
    • Memorization. Using JAWS fluently requires that a blind person memorize dozens, if not hundreds, of keystrokes and interface layouts. Sighted users have tool tips and hot key indicators and a hundred other visual affordances to prod us along the path. If JAWS can provide an equivalent, I've yet to find it. Coming back to a program you haven't used in a year pretty much means starting from scratch with learning the interface.
    • Portability. JAWS is insanely expensive and can't be installed on just any computer on the network. It tethers the user to one station.
    • Compatability. The university uses Novell Netware in the boss's college. Since the log-in screen would load before JAWS, it's not accessible, which means that the boss can't use Novell. This in turn means that he can't use the public printers, the calendar tools, and other programs that are doled out through those gates. On the plus side, it means that he's the only guy in the college with administrator privileges and a more-or-less unencumbered net connection :)
    • Flash and Java-based menus and advertisements online that break JAWS
    • JAWS assumes a certain level of basic computer competence in its users. Its help menus will tell you everything you never wanted to know about setting the properties of a folder. But we forget that there are computing lessons even more basic like that. For example, the boss still doesn't really know why he would want to use folders, or what the difference is between the Word application and a Word document.
    • Last and certainly not the least are the education gaps between the boss and his assistants. The boss's scholarly field is not technical in nature, and his students reflect that. I'm the first assistant he's had who understood keystrokes as a way of navigating interfaces; everyone else bogs down saying "Well normally, I would just click that. I don't know any way to do
    --
    John Hancock wuz here.
  125. Re:One way to cut costs - outsourcing! by Klaus+Obermeyer · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's no secret that many of the Americans calling Indian support centers know more than the supposed "support" personal they are calling.

    That's why it's perfect that these Americans have lost their Job, now they finally have the time to talk the Indians through their old job!

  126. Nintendo Revolution by tepples · · Score: 1

    the FDA regulations virtually guarantee that any product produced will cost 10x what it should and take 3-5 years to develop.

    It's not a food, and it's not a drug. The other uses for a tactile display don't even have to be medical; they could be for video games. Where does the FDA have jurisdiction?

    My point is that it really isn't patents. The [exorbitant] costs in developing this stuff means that they need high margins to stay in business.

    If patents aren't involved (or if they're expired), what stops a competitor from copying the design into that of its own device?

    1. Re:Nintendo Revolution by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      It's not a food, and it's not a drug. The other uses for a tactile display don't even have to be medical; they could be for video games. Where does the FDA have jurisdiction?

      The FDA manages to cover just about anything medical, including scooters for the disabled. There may not be much difference between a Segway and similar robotics for the disabled, but one costs a LOT more than the other.

      If patents aren't involved (or if they're expired), what stops a competitor from copying the design into that of its own device?

      Copyright, actually. You can't just directly rip off a device without expecting legal reprocussions. Not that it could be done without the manufacturing blue prints. Just like you need source code to be truely effective in reverse engineering software, you need the blueprints for mechanical devices. Without those prints, you'd need to reverse engineer it, which is just as much work as starting from scratch.

    2. Re:Nintendo Revolution by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      FYI, there's more info here. Wikipedia claims that part of the cost is caused by making a device that has to stand up to constant, everyday use.

  127. Braille Printers by Vaninadisc · · Score: 1

    I work part time actually for disability resources at my college, and part of my job is looking at OCR output scans and correcting them for mistakes which are later printed with braille embossers or read with text to speech tools for our blind students. I have to say, after a few days on the job I realized how insufficient resources are for the students, often our assignments aren't given to us until a day or two after the blind student is supposed to get the material, so by the time they get them back from us they're often already a few days behind in class. While there isn't really a good way of fixing this, i'm sure that there are many who would really appreciate more tools. Any little process that can be made a bit faster for them would help make up for the delays that are unavoidable. Then diagrams and pictures we end up simply describing or captioning for the student. While picture to braille conversions exist, they generally don't do a good job as there are only so many discernable "textures" and braille heights that can be physically felt.

  128. Non-windowing by mattr · · Score: 1

    Caveat /. is maybe not the best place to ask, and I'm not experienced in this area either..

    Windowing systems, in that they simulate objects moving spatially (in front/behind, and in 2 dimensions across screen) and require hand-eye coordination to click on widgets, are basically not a great idea. You will always be fighting to translate these difficult things into a different realm, not that it can't be done.

    If you instead think about what work needs to be done, possibly it could be handled using mainly audio clues and novel tactile interfaces. For example do users even type well? Aside from the hardware and UI nitty-gritty, something like emacs or ratpoison
    might be more useful. I could see how a new frame being created would speak its name at a different pitch for example, so by hitting one key on your custom keyboarding device you can get all the visible frames to say their names in order from low pitch to high pitch, maybe you can scroll through them audibly with a scroll wheel type mechanism. Anyway I know lots of people are not fully blind and can use computers well so presumably you want two systems, one close to the current system and one that is a radical departure for non-sighted people. I am not even sure what the jobs are that they would want to do but I imagine the most important things will be to visualize one's surroundings and danger (for example a rangefinding and sonar type device) and interacting with at least part of the web in some way (just because it is so inexpensive to develop for it).

    Of course I doubt any partially blind people are going to be reading slashdot with its tons of text but maybe?

    1. Re:Non-windowing by mattr · · Score: 1

      By the way I wonder if for example a keyboard module could be developed to subtly assist in typing. It might be useful for sighted people too. I'm thinking that instead of making an audible click when you hit a key, it speaks the name of the letter you typed in a very soft voice at the edge of your hearing (you can adjust the volume, and it will also adjust the volume a little lower if it can or louder if you make more mistakes). The idea would be to try to train the user to create a subconscious process monitoring the difference between intended and struck keys using audio cues. It could also be used to speak phonetically or through a dictionary. Might be more useful too if you are typing a phonetic alphabet. Which also is not a bad idea. For example Japanese is like that.

      Also I recently tried out a new 5.1ch system with Star Wars in a shop in Akihabara, it looked like inexpensive equipment. I don't know about 13.1ch but at any rate, it seems to me that sound effects, 3D placement and simulated motion (of self or objects) through such a system might provide a very rich array of audio cues. Imagine watching for example a fantasy movie (Star Wars, LoTR, etc.) with your eyes closed. You are journeying through different environments, different creatures talk, etc. Could be more fun computing with this. Next step for Xorg?

      Anyway there are undoubtedly lots of possible directions for experimentation and also a lot of prior art to study if you are really asking this question seriously. Good luck and maybe you can share your results later with us!

  129. Needs-Failure to Communicate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The WIMP paradigm is fundamentally broken when it comes to the disabled. The problem is best approached by repeatedly and recursively asking, "what am I trying to communicate" based upon what can be recieved, and transmitted by the user?

  130. ICAD by mattr · · Score: 1

    Take a look at this conference, on auditory display: ICAD2005 and this cool paper from about 1996.

  131. Braille BSOD? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    What would the Blue Screen of Death work like? A 3-Stooges like poke-in-the-eye? Explodes? Skunk juice? I vote skunk.

  132. a vision by laejoh · · Score: 0

    I work for a team developing technology for individuals who are blind

    So you're the one with a vision!

  133. go here... by Cryptnotic · · Score: 1

    If you can read English, I bet you can figure it out in about 10 minutes.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braile

    --
    My other first post is car post.
  134. my experience by greenrom · · Score: 3, Insightful
    About 5 years ago back when I was in school, I worked on a project sponsored by the state of washington to develop an improved text telephone for people who are both deaf and blind. To help us develop a prototype, we met with a lot of deaf-blind people and people who assisted them. I strongly encourage you to meet with people who are deaf-blind before trying to design a device that would meet their needs. Here are a few things I learned while working on the project.

    * Most deaf-blind people are not born deaf and blind. Most deaf-blind people are born either deaf or blind and then lose the other sense as they get older. I don't have any numbers to back this up, but the overwhelming majority of deaf-blind people we met suffered from Usher Syndrome. Most people who have this genetic disorder are born deaf and then start going blind around 30. From my experience, most of these people only start to learn braille when they start to experience vision loss. It can be difficult for adults to learn braille. As a result, it's very useful to have a display suitable for people with reduced vision in addition to a braille display to ease the transition as these people are learning braille.

    * Deaf-blind people communicate by using sign language and feeling the speaker's hand as things are signed. However, deaf-blind people often need to communicate with people who do not know sign langage (a repairman, neighbor, paramedics, etc). To do this, they often rely on a computer, text telephone, or similar device that allows them to type messages back and forth to the person they need to communicate with. It's important to keep secondary uses like this in mind when designing a product.

    * For the severely vision impaired, we found that LCD and CRT based displays were not easy to read. The displays that were easiest to read had about 2-inch letters and emitted a bright light in the blue-green area of the color spectrum. Scrolling text is very difficult to read for people with severe vision impairments. Many of the people we worked with had severe tunnel vision that made multi-line displays confusing. These people would keep their head a couple of inches from the screen and move their head to scan across the line. We ended up using a large vacuum-flourescent display that would advance a line at a time at the user's control. We also found that having interchangeable color filters for the display made it useful for more people since everyone's vision loss is different.

    * We found that multi-line braille displays were confusing for a lot of people and didn't serve much purpose since you can only read one line at a time. The design we used that people seemed to like the best was a 20 character braille display with a button on the left-hand side for scrolling up one line and a button on the right hand side for scrolling down one line.

    * Some people we met were good typists, but most people tended to one-finger it. That's bad enough if you can see, but it's even worse for blind people. We had braille lettering on our keys, and we found that a lot of people would scan the keys with their fingers to locate the letter they wanted to type. However, they often ended up inadvertantly pressing these keys as they were scanning the braille. Using very stiff key switches greatly reduced this problem.

    * Placement of keys, power switches, etc is very important. Things need to be easy to locate but difficult to inadvertantly hit. This is harder than it sounds and you probably won't know the mistakes in the layout until you ask a blind person to use it.

    * Before I worked on this project, I had no idea that there are two different kinds of braille: 6-dot and 8-dot. Far more people are familiar with 6-dot since it's what's used for most books, but 6-dot has a lot of limitations. The only symbols you get are period and comma. Numbers are letters that are prefixed by the number symbol. As you can see, there can be some information l

  135. EMACS :D by pkhuong · · Score: 1

    EMACS+TTS (festival, emacspeak, who knows?). Emacs is incredibly scriptable, has a shell, multiple buffers, etc. No need for new full-blown app :)

    --
    Try Corewar @ www.koth.org - rec.games.corewar
    1. Re:EMACS :D by mwilliamson · · Score: 1

      There is already such a project...emacspeak available at http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/

  136. Re:One way to cut costs - outsourcing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AWE-FUCKING-SOME! that was really nice. cheers!

  137. Reminds me of... by Kryztoval · · Score: 1

    ... a operating system we were trying to create that was language/independant (no, really!) but not coding language, but actually User Language independant, after a little though we decided that it could be usefull even to people that doesn't know how to read nor write, which prove like a very hard task, as you had to show all errors with images or sounds.

    Well, if we could get some "tactil screens" so we can actually feel what is on the screen and some responses to it.. then we could think about building terminals for the blind. Braille terminals are not good enough (is like using a text interfaces only, can you imagine doind that with windows? i know i can't, however linux would be really nice)

    Sound is just a pain, i usually try stuff like, being blind for a week, beeing deef for 3 days, to see if i could do the things i do, and i usually find out that it is more than a pain in the a$$, we actually went around in wheelchairs just to see if buildings/malls/cinemas are up to it or not... how hard it is to move around, etc.

    If we want to do something about that, the fact is, more people would need to be blind for a week!! is a reviving experience, to be dependant, to feel the darkness.

  138. Replacement for visual display. by hypnoticstoat · · Score: 1

    How about a larger version of one of those pin screen executive toys linked to some sort of compressor system that would allow the pins to be raised individually to produce pages of braile that could be changed depending on the screen view. The pins could be made variable pressure sensative to allow reading of the text but then certain areas (such as hyperlinks) could be made slightly more raised to show they are links. All that would be need then would be slightly more pressure than normal by the user on this area to activate the link. There are probably lots of problems with this idea that I've not considered so feel free to shoot me down in flames :)

  139. Image - Ascii generator by tod_miller · · Score: 1

    SO they can still get the pr0n. Be careful son, you might go...

    I must say, without being able to see the website in question, it can be tough trusting sites, and the usability on the web, with image navigation etc, it hard enough for a seeing/hearing person.

    --
    #hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
  140. Since the answer got buried in a reply chain... by Hosiah · · Score: 1
    I'll amplify it. You want Oralux:
    http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=oral ux
    Burn it to Live CD.

    As for the rest of you people, how about just answering the question before you flame and ridicule it? Creating software for the handicapped isn't something to hoot down...it is a fascinating, rewarding challenge. One met sometimes by the handicapped themselves...let's see YOU be so clever when you have Cerebral Palsy, can't talk, and can only type with your feet!

  141. read grandparent, he said 4 yr old daughter! by fantomas · · Score: 1

    err... read grandparent- he mentioned "4 year old daughter" not "*real hacker*" (hmmm....). I don't imagine he's expecting his 4 yr old daughter to "work on a vt220 with screen, slrn, bitchx, mutt, dozens of consoles, vim, ssh". I imagine his daughter's hoped for experience is more like the typical four year old, wobbling a mouse around to click on the nice big pictures, having fun with some edutainment and maybe do a little tentative typing of their name etc, so when they go to school it will be a skill they have in common with their better sighted friends.

  142. Why an OS? by Driadan · · Score: 1

    I don't understand why do you need a completely new OS, It would split blind/deaf people a bit more. They would not share their programs/documents with the rest of the world, just between blind/deaf people and a few more that have access to that OS.
    You should keep triyng to modify the known OS's instead of creating a new one

    --

    I see connected people! - The seventh sense
  143. Braille Interfaces is NOT an option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd like to point out that only about 10 percent of people who are blind, read braille.

    This is due to the association between "natural" visual impairment (being born visually impaired) and diabetes (which reduces sensation in the bodies extremities, for example finger tips).

  144. mod parent up by js7a · · Score: 1

    very inSIGHTful

  145. Designing a UI for blind people... by TheWormThatFlies · · Score: 1

    I think that there are two fundamental mistakes lots of people make when designing interfaces for completely blind people.

    The first is the idea that we should just slap a screen reader on top of a regular GUI, so that the blind user hears a description of everything that a sighted user would see on the screen - and that will be just great, and make the GUI accessible. I think that's a silly approach. I'm not saying that screen readers are useless - I imagine that they are a helpful tool for partially sighted people and blind people who can't read braille, and they are a quick and dirty solution for blind people who are given no other options - but they are hardly the best we can do (and obviously totally useless to those who are both blind and deaf).

    Instead of interpreting an interface which was designed and optimised for sighted people so that it is not utterly useless to blind people, we should construct an interface specially optimised for blind people, which takes full advantage of the senses that they are skilled in using. It should have both audio and tactile input and output methods.

    There is a good reason why sight is the most important sense to sighted people. Sight provides us with a vastly larger amount of information than any of our other senses. We can see further and more accurately than we can hear. Sight allows us to scan rapidly over a two-dimensional or three-dimensional object, pick out an area of interest and access it directly.

    When blind people access text, whether it's through a screen reader or a one-line braille display, it's one-dimensional, sequential access, which by nature is slower and less efficient. That's why we should make every effort to optimise such interfaces, rather than using them as half-assed interpreters of existing interfaces.

    I also think that we should be searching for new ways to allow blind people to absorb more information more accurately using the senses of sound and touch. This is more of a hardware problem, and this is where I think lots of people get bogged down by the second fundamental mistake: the idea that a computer interface should be a metaphor for an existing real-world interface.

    This assumption is by no means restricted to this narrow category of interface design. I've often seen designers of conventional GUIs argue that a suggested feature is "bad" because it "breaks the metaphor".

    There's a whole rant in here which I won't get into now. Broadly, my opinion is that I don't want my computer to be a newspaper, a filing cabinet or a typewriter - I want it to be a computer, and let me do all the useful things that simply cannot be done without a computer.

    Back to my original point - computers can potentially allow us to build interfaces which we could never have imagined constructing without computers. Hopefully, in the future, we will be able to interface with optic nerves, or the parts of the brain which interpret signals from the optic nerves, and allow blind people to "see" in some sense. At the moment this is still a pipe dream, as far as I know, but we can try passing data to blind people in other ways, and see if we find something that works well enough to be widely adopted.

    I remember hearing about a study in which spatial data was translated into pressure applied to the backs of the test subjects (anybody remember this? Got a link?). They learned to interpret the sensations as information about three-dimensional terrain in front of them. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. I don't know if it can efficiently be made into something accurate enough to read text, but we won't know unless we try.

  146. Meta-Visual and Meta-Audio Metaphors by stuffduff · · Score: 1
    f the blindness and/or deafness is sensory organ related as opposed to brain related it may be possible to explore the concept of meta-visual and meta-audio metaphors. Take, as a starting example the 'phantom limb' effect. In this example, the user no longer has a limb, but frequently experiences the 'presence' of the limb. People who experience this can give you a detailed 'impression' of what is happening with the missing limb. Clearly, in these cases, the related area of the brain is fully capable of functionality.

    Recently, reports of the Utah Hand show examples where the nerves of the missing arm are re-routed, subcutaneously to the chest, where they can both exert and receive electrical signals, allowing for both command and feedback impulses to be transmitted to/from the brain.

    If we look the example of a person blinded in later life, they have a rich history of visual experience in which to draw upon, which can be accessed through both tactile and auditory senses if present. Imagine a tactile display, about the size of a display screen, in which there are tiny, air inflatable or piezoelectric cells which can be mapped above membrane switches. The tactile surface could express braille and represent the controls available on the normal display via a driver and mapping software. The locations of the items on the display would represent the windows of the open applications. A window could also represent a tactile keyboard. Now that we have an input, output device, we can enrich the environment further, by adding voices to relay the bulk of the information. I say voices, because the applications should speak in different voices so that the user has an audio metaphor to represent different applications and tell them apart. By using 3-d surround sound acoustical technology, an applications voice could appear to be spatially located. A window with a message in the background may be quieter. And the voices should have different intonations depending on what is being done, perhaps a slightly more stern or flat voicing for a dialog box, and something more friendly for informational messages.

    The operating system differs here, because it displays the only the controls on the tactile pad, and displays the application content via the sound system and a synthesizer.

    By modularizing the various application flows and dialogs, the system should be configurable for a variety of differently challenged individuals. Similarly, the same PC should be able to inter operate over the net with other similar and dissimilar devices. So a deaf poet could work with a blind musician to create a song, and their producer could listen and make suggestions in real time.

    --
    "Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
  147. Re:One way to cut costs - outsourcing! by mutterc · · Score: 1
    *shrug* This was true even before tech support got offshored; trying to figure out how to report real problems to front-line tech support has been a vexing game ever since PC's got good market penetration amongst the non-geek public.

    My wife used to do outsourced Level 1 ISP tech support (possibly the worst job in the world) in Durham, NC, in 1998 or so. Among other things, you were required to follow the script, even if you knew what the problem was - it didn't matter if you were knowledgeable.

  148. I wouldn't, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Trying to build an OS from scratch is a monumental undertaking. Hypothetically though, the needs of the blind are not all that different from the sighted, information just needs to be linear. What you need to do is figure out how to do non-linear processes in a linear way.

    1) Natural language processing. It's got to be integral to the system, and able to control any application.

    2)file storage - It would take an incredible memory to know where all your data files were, so something like the hypothetical WinFS DBMS file system would be ideal. Indexing of unstructured text and metadata are going to be critical. It should know what's in your email, calendar, documents, etc and get you the info you need.

    3)Output - Natural text-to-speech is the way to go. Braille is an option, but it's slower than listening. You need to develop outputs that don't require remembering specific details like filenames, but concepts that convey meaning.

  149. BlindOS, Blind GUI by duzupis · · Score: 1

    My father was recently blinded as a result of injuries in a motorcycle accident. Not only is he legally blind, he is completely blind; the optic nerves were both severed and detached. He also only has feeling in his pinkie-finger on his right hand, thus making a Braille reader useless. He is attempting to learn how to type with a right-handed Dvorak keyboard and his typing is relayed to him by an application known as Read & Write. We just purchased JAWS from freedomscientific.com and are awaiting its delivery.

    Although I have not used JAWS and I am not aware of all its capabilities, I do believe there should be better accessibility applications in any standard desktop OS. JAWS will set you back around $800-$1100, and that's quite a price to pay--especially since the person who injured my father didn't have insurance and we're forced to cover the cost of all these items. (Keep in mind: this is one of those very rare situations.)

    I, for one, would be interested in seeing a graphical user interface capable of succinctly displaying information and reading it back to any user without bombarding them with data. With all the bells and whistles in any office productivity software suite and every new web site these days, it's very difficult to understand what you are listening to when you have an application play back the text on screen. Some people do not label the ALT tag in image placeholders, so no text can be read for those items. FLASH animations are useless unless there is actually real plain-text on the web page. In addition, opening items and getting the PC setup is very difficult. My father is quickly learning where things are located and can easily get himself setup in front of the computer as long as you put him in front of the right applications. However, I still have to verify that all the system settings are correct every time I turn on the computer.

    It is very difficult and extremely disorienting to go from having sight to not having it when using computers (even though you have used them for years prior). This is especially difficult when nothing gives very good verbal clues and you have poor use of your fingers. Everything needs to be done with the keyboard; a mouse is totally useless to my father. I have to place special markers (pieces of felt or rubber buttons) on certain keys.

    What I have been trying to do is modify not only the way Windows XP Pro works, but also how the other applications function. Keyboard shortcuts (and Sticky Keys) are a definite must, but you can only have so many before you need to memorize an entire keyboard of commands. Voice Recognition is terrific (my father's cellular phone is entirely voice activated and he is just amazed that he only needs to flip the phone open to do anything), although it does need to be trained to function well. To train voice recognition, my father would at least have to read what is on the screen (i.e., see the screen) for it to be effectively trained. My workaround is to just do all the training exercises myself, record them to a CD, and then play them back to him on a set of headphones so he could repeat aloud what he hears.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that I really don't have many ideas for how to build an OS or GUI for visually impaired users so much as I have suggestions. I guess one of my biggest concerns is that you have to pay for an operating system that comes with poor and limited accessibility functions and then pay another $1000 for something that will effectively give verbal output for the operating system. What I am really looking for in any accessibility application, though, is the ability to simplify the most common pitfalls with a combination of keyboard shortcuts and voice activation. I see this as an opportunity to push a specially designed USB keyboard--something visually switchable from QWERTY to Dvorak (standard, right-handed, or left-handed) that contains special keys for shortcuts, possibly an integrated microphone. Even creating a keyboard with its own interna

  150. Basic support. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just a few ideas in no particular order:
    1) Specialized keyboards. A buddy of mine once had a job working at a school for developmentally or otherwize impaired children (back in Apple IIe days) his primary task devolved to setting up support for the specialized keyboards (large-format touch-sensitive pads that could support overlays). You could do worse than making support for Braille Terminals and other additions a basic device.

    2) Never forget the command line. What little "accessability software" I have seen has seemed (to me) to be flawed because it seeks to take the GUI which is designed for visual users and render it into something else. This is a hard and probably unnecessary task. I would think that you would have an easier time rendering a command-line environment accessable (audio or braille output, special key input) than a gui which is, after all designed around visual buttons, mice, etc.

    3) Don't think that you have to do it all. On MacOS and, to an extent Windows the visual environment is a big part of the system but on neither one, (certainly not on *nix or BSD) is the gui the same as the OS.

    4) Customizability. The point has been made that user's needs are higly individual so a setup that supports easy and efficient customization (based perhaps on user profiles for a shared system) would be, I think, key.

    If I were given this task right now I would look at taking an existing OS (probably a *nix as they have good command-line features although MacOS might do) and consider it from the shell or command-line perspective. There exist ways of multi-tasking even in these environment (virtual terms, screen, etc). I would then consider the input issues, and the output issues. Input is a matter of supporting special keyboards, as necessary or other changes. Output is a matter of determining how best to render the screen (braille, audio, etc) and then writing libraries/tools that support such output. Sitting in a command-line environment I would consider the use of text-editors like emacs or vi, text-based mail tools, and so on. The issue seems to me to be less about the OS than about other software, (mail tools editors, etc.) A standard *nix distro could be built that would include support libraries for the alternative inputs and text-to-speech, etc out of the box. The issue is getting versions of the requisite software tools that support that feature. If the shell does then that will go a long way because a great deal of work can be done in the command-line (compiling etc depending upon their needs) but other tools will proobably be needed.

  151. Blind OS by Bile_One · · Score: 1

    A long time ago we had an accessible OS it was the command line. Now in Linux, and Unix we still have it, but the advent of the GUI has changed the way we look at OSes as graphical, however behind the scenes the GUI just issues the same commands you would enter on the command line.

    Now low vision users would be at an advantage using the older systems as well, since the black backgrounds with white text creates an extremely nice contrast, with screen magnification applications those that have very low vision had the ability to fine tune the magnification and sharpen the fonts, sometimes magnification would be 32 times the actual amounts, Now with color monitors Black is not really black it is a really dark gray, and Contrast is slightly lost.

    No one these days makes an affordable Black and White Monitor, or video card.

    Deaf users do not have an issue with a gui interface other than the content of video files that do not have text alternatives for spoken words.

    Deaf and Blind users can use refreshable braille displays that interact as a keyboard, we had these, and still do.

    So what am I saying? Well in basic terms I am saying we had everything accessible until we focused on the visual person, who didn't like the command line. No I am not an adovacte of the command line, but I would like to have a fully operating system that can run from the command line. Like we had with Windows 3.1 where the gui was an optional command or application.

    TTY telephone devices also work and if needed have brallle displays for them too, so blind and deaf person can talk on the phone. These devices have been around for a long long time.

    I have 12 years experience with assisitve devices and software. I work as a consultant to many Colleges, and Private businesses with a need to make assisitve technology part of their day to day environment.

    Mick

  152. GUIs have been great for the blind! by beetle496 · · Score: 1
    It seems to me that operating systems today are farthest behind in serving people with visual impairments.
    Actually Windows has been a great boon to novice computer users who happen to be blind. They prefer GUI over CLI for the same reasons as most people: (1) A consistent interface from one application to the next; (2) The ability to gradually and interactively learn an applications capabilities merely by exploring the menus. Say what you will about Windows, but it is very accessible without a mouse, even without a screen reader.
    --
    I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
  153. Narrator isn't really a screen reader by beetle496 · · Score: 1
    Windows XP has had Narrator since its release.
    Read the disclaimer when you launch Narrator. Even Microsoft doesn't pretend that it has much functionality. Even more ironically, Narrator is not compatible with IE, MS Office, nor Outlook!
    --
    I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!