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U.S. Army Testing Personal Cooling Suits
DJ BenBen writes to tell us that they Army is currently testing some 500 liquid cooled vests with Humvee crews in Iraq. From the article: "The Humvees with add-on armor were fitted with air conditioners after TARDEC engineers in Warren, Mich., were given the requirement to figure out how Soldiers in armored vehicles could be kept cool under the desert sun. Some of the same engineers had designed the add-on armor kits for the M-998 and M-1025 Humvees in theater. But with the extra armor and doors closed, temperatures inside the vehicles could reportedly reach more than 130 degrees. 'It's like putting somebody in a toaster oven on low heat,' said Charlie Bussee, an engineer at TARDEC."
Is it such a good idea to 'Slashdot' a MILITARY website?
Lets hope they don't hit back....
DEAD DEAD DEAD DELETE ME
And exactly why would you ask scientists and engineers in MICHIGAN to test the effect of a DESERT environment? Utah I could understand. Or Nevada. Or Arizona. Or New Mexico. But Michigan?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
That could be a scare for some troops.
I'm not a doctor, but is it good for soldiers' health to be hot and cold simultaneously? I have heard that having air conditioning and heating on is not healthy, so what about this?
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
I have a lot of friends in Iraq right now and they tell me that the Iraqi's are 100% convienced that the US already has air conditioned boxers, briefs, panties and bras... how else can they move around in that heat!
Oh please. A crass advert wrapped up in sentimental twallop. What the hell has this got to do with "bringing our troops home"?
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
I was a little nipper when the Space Race was in full swing.
In the early '70s, Popular Science ran an article by a stuff writer who tried out one of the water-cooled undergarments worn by astronauts during "EVA."
The garment was resembled full-length underwear, laced with yards and yards of plastic tubing. The cooling source was a bag of ice worn on the hip. Kind of like a fanny pack.
The writer put on the suit, dressed normally, and went for a walk around Manhattan on a stinking hot day. One of the few details I remember: A picture of him loading up the ice bag at a bar.
Watercooling doesn't cool below ambient unless you have something like a peltier on the radiator...
of them being deployed? Even if all the tests go as planned, what are the chances the government is going buy one for every member of the military in Iraq?
"A rapid-release system allows Soldiers to quickly disconnect the hoses so they can jump out of the vehicle and keep the vests on."
Let's just hope that the water circulating through the vest is sucked out by the release system, or else that once-was-cold water is going to turn very hot and very heavy, RSN.
http://www.asti-usa.com
Besides, it's a waste of money. Just put a forty gallon beer keg in the back of the Humvee, and believe me the desert heat won't be a problem at all.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Not to mention, Helicopter pilots have had this system for a while. Plus it's not that cool; it's not portable.
By chance is it made of black snakeskin, cover your head, and keep you cool despite looking really, well hot?
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
...of course having to carry around that 4 foot tall bong is a real bitch!
It's like putting somebody in a toaster oven on low heat
Boy, but you should see them complain when it's on high!
Sure, these vests might work great while in-vehicle. But they're worn under-armor; what happens when a soldier has to exit the vehicle quickly? Sure, the hoses are quick-release, but now he's got yet another layer of clothing on in the desert heat, a layer that probably doesn't help his maneuverability. Perhaps there's a better solution.
When you think about it, these kinds of thing may very well be the early precursors to the Space Infantry Suits... Soon the US will be declaring war on anything that isn't from earth..
What it takes to get them home safely: stop declaring war on people. :P
Civilian racing versions usually feature a small pump inside of a water reservoir in an ice cooler. The pump runs off the car's 12VDC system. The rest of the cooler is filled with ice, to keep the water cold.
You can get one right here for $320 (for a limited time.) Perhaps the military should just buy them from those guys, if they can come up with 40,000 of them or so :)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
What it takes to get them home safely: stop declaring war on people.
But then there'd be no justification for billions of dollars in defense spending.
At least have the decency to say that 130 degrees fahrenheit is 54 degrees celsius, ScuttleMonkey...
I live in São Paulo. In the summer, when it isn't raining (and sometimes even when it is raining) it gets frickin' hot. When I didn't have a car (and for the short time when I had a car without air conditioning) and had to visit customers wearing at least "business casual-plus" clothes and sometimes a suit and tie during the summer, my mind naturally turned to ways to keep myself cool so I wouldn't arrive all sweaty and wrinkled at the customer sites.
I had the idea of a personal cooling unit, with a box (maybe carried in a briefcase) that would cool some liquid (water maybe) and pump it through tubes that I would be wearing to cool strategic regions of my body (major arteries and possibly veins near the skin seemed like good places to have the tubes passing). I had this amazing mental image of me walking down the Avenida Paulista (a famous major avenue in the city) in the blazing sun on the hottest day of the year, wearing a black wool suit and looking cool and comfortable while people around me in shorts, sleeveless shirts and sandals were panting and bathed in sweat.
The technical issues seemed tough to master, especially the question of how I would cool the water (or other liquid). Then it occurred to me that I could just have a reservoir filled with as much ice as it could hold, and then cold water filling the remaining space. A simple battery-operated pump would pump the water through aquarium tubing to the aforementioned strategic points and then back to the reservoir for heat exchange with the ice and cooler water. This version would be able to provide cooling for a much shorter time than the one with a portable refrigeration unit, but one could always refill the reservoir with ice and water, and it would be a lot easier to build and maintain. I would be able to build it from readily available (and inexpensive) components. Not to mention that I wouldn't have the problem of powering a portable refrigeration unit. This one seemed doable, but I ended up buying a car with air conditioning before I got around to making my personal cooling unit, and my interest in actually completing the project waned.
"It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner
Actually, we don't usually declare wars; we just wage them.
military spending is such a waste. I can't remember the last time i used something developed by the military. I think the net would be a better place without this kind of research.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
I don't know if this is such a good idea..when I was in Afghanistan we often were in humvees and they were already crammed as it is. I think anything like this would just add to the chaos that is inside the humvee. Although it is a step in the right direction It just dosn't seem smart. Its hard to get out of a humvee when you plan to, and I can't imagine how bad this might add to any reaction to contact or IED. The Ac in humvees right now is not too bad, its just the fact that it overheats the engine and you end up having to shut it off is what sucks. Then again, its always cool up top on the turret...
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Ayn Rand
This is interesting, but I will be really excited when we have our own Still-Suits ala Dune. I mean, I would think we have the technology to make still-suits a reality.
DAMN YOU OCTODOG! DAMN YOU TO HELL!
Ah, but we haven't declared war on anyone since June 5th, 1942. See this wikipedia page for a reference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by _the_United_States
WTF is wrong with air conditioning?
Seems to me that if they're going to spend all this time adding a liquid cooling system to the vehicle, they could just add some AC device instead.
k
This too, will end.
Ummm... This sounds pretty ridiculous to those of us who live in the desert. Around here, when it's 125F degrees in the shade, everyone still works outside, and many in direct sunlight. I *never* even turn on my car's air conditioner (though admitedly, most people do).
Can someone fill me in as to why Iraq is so different that people can't work in tempuratures even lower than people in So. California/Arizona/Nevada are used-to?
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
The U.S. Army spends thousands of dollars to develop Personal Cooling suits. The Russian Army wears T-Shirts.
It coud be done with just a racing 'coolsuit'. Plus. extra geek points if instead of a large cooler of ice, you get a small cooler with a Peltier device! http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000083048949/
Send soldiers to Iraq and make sure even in Humvees they have a cooling suit. And also see to it they always have bottled water to drink.
This reminds me of when Pratap Chatterjee was talking on C-Span booktv about his book "Iraq, Inc. : A Profitable Occupation" about all the wasteful spending and downright scams military contractors were running.
I am going on a limg here and say your not wearing T-shirt, long pants, long sleeves, helmet, flak jacket,canteen, side arm, automatic weaponn, ammo, etc . . .
All while looking for people trying to kill you.
" I *never* even turn on my car's air conditioner (though admitedly, most people do)."
yeah, well your a kook.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Of course, they could just buy a Bushmaster.
"Suppose they gave a war, and nobody came? Why then, the war would come to you!" - Bertolt Brecht
I think you meant to say happy holiday!
;)
Nah, just kidding. I don't actually give a shit what it's called.
Happy holiday!
...the vehicles could reportedly reach more than 130 degrees. 'It's like putting somebody in a toaster oven on low heat,...
OK, so I have the temperature on the Fahrenheit scale and on the "kitchen appliances" scale. Now, how about a SI unit like, say, degrees Celcius (or Kelvin, why not)?
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
Okay, yes, a coolsuit isn't news for some. What I take issue with is that you seem to have taken the same, unfortunate belief that so many smart people fall into. Military development isn't cheap, and because all the exact details are rarely given out to the public, it's assumed to be mostly waste. While this may be true in some cases, it's not the norm. Believe it or not, the Army does have a limited budget and actually cares about researching many areas simultaneously; thus they do care about waste.
Anyway, there's always a difference between a commercial technology and a military one. Take this suit for example. How many times do you think racecar drivers get shot at while in their cars? If a bullet penetrates through, what will the results be? If there is fluid leakage, will it harm internal tissue or poison the blood stream, or is it so cold that muscles will tense up? If there are wires (and there are), could those short out and cause electrical damage to the wearer? If the system becomes non-functioning, what could happen that would prevent the wearer from continuing the mission? Lastly, what do the soldiers that will be issued this device think about it? You know, the guys that have been there, and will be going back? Yep, the Army gets everyone's input (even privates), and that's a huge benefit mostly unique to our military.
As someone that's in the Army, I can tell you that we don't get issued ANYTHING unless the leadership is confident that it will benefit our mission. That's not a bad thing.
Long, cute, or funny Sigs are just another form of over compensation, used by geeks, nerdz, etc.
Wouldnt it be easier to just bring them home ?
..your taxes. I mean ultra modern suits that don't work, ultra modern PC-s and equipment that just makes everything harder to operate with rather than easier.. it's just suspicious tech firms milking the military department.
Because this is what war is used for, you know when the war starts, it better last long, cuz that's the time lots of people make LOOTS of money selling overhyped and overpriced gadgets to those poor soldiers.
Oh, and reminds me of a popular old story about NASA spending millions to invent a pen that works in zero gravity environment. They finally nailed it, but at quite the cost.. The alternative solution by the Russians? Use pencil.
I can think of 3,000 or so people who might disagree with this, if they could.
- AJ
We're home feeling safe because we have brave men and women serving their country for us. Waging war and freeing oppressed people is what makes the USA so strong and successful. Never in history has there been such a benevolent superpower like the United States of America.
That's why we want them home, but wish for their best when they are fighting for us.
Freedom isn't free.
Well since the US hasn't declared war since 1942, I'd say that they have pretty much stopped.
It's much more convenient to have conflicts instead, since you don't have to abide by all those pesky international rules.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Heat isn't affecting soldiers as much as an inadequate rifle round ".223." The 223 was meant for spray and pray fire superiority in the jungles, at low cost, and low weight. The military needs to invest in a decent round i.e. 308/7.62x#! That can effectively go through things and have enough power for any infantry soldier to take out an engine block. Soldiers die because of an inexcusable round, because its cost effective. Even the days of the tumbling 223 are over due to using NATO specs. And for fracks sake how about a decent sidearm! Give them all one! You buddy must have the same Mag!
All these posts and not one single mention of Battletech?? What is Slashdot coming to?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Ducks#Relatio
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/football/nc
http://www.fanblogs.com/pac10/004233.php
Some sources say that they use some sort of liquid coolant, which can also be heated, while others say compressed air is used. Still, the point is that the Ducks are better equipped than the Army.
>>> What it takes to get them home safely: stop declaring war on people. :P
That way we'll just be complicit with terrorists and LET them attack us! What a perfect plan! Oh wait, when did Congress declare war again?
Oh boy :-( Don't tell me you are trying to tie 9/11 to Iraq. Dubya/Dick..that you?
"reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
And I can think of 30,000 or so people who might agree with it, if they could. Your point?
Sounds like they've been looking at this system from the looks of it. After all, why not use the body to recharge the batteries?
Why don't they just fix the air conditioning in the HumVee in the first place.
It costs a buck-oh-five.
Then again - a tank's crew mission is usually to stay in the tank while a humvee crew might have a need to move around more easely (but maybe just cooling their head will help to decrease the cooling unit size and weight).
Eventually american soldiers will die under the weight of the junk they have to carry if Bush keeps the war industry in overdrive.
A small cooler for the head, and maybe for under the armpits, would be cheaper and more easily distributed to all infantry that would not add much bulk or weight to their body armor. More junk makes it harder the the troops to fire and maneuver. These suits are better suited for armor rather than scout vehicles.
From TFA:
Each Humvee cooling kit consists of four water-filled vests known as Air Warrior Microclimatic Cooling Garments or MCGs. Fungicide-treated water is chilled by the AC system in the Humvee and circulated through the garment
As if the tech difference wasn't enough, now watercooled, overclocked soldiers can get some more FPS and an even higher frag count.
Why then, the war would come to YOU!
I bet Brecht was a Soviet.
Sooner or later, the Americans in Iraq will do what all the other people who have invaded Iraq over the past three thousand years have done. Which is, go native.
20 million people live in Iraq all year round all their lives. Do what they do to deal with the heat. Instead of $5000 air conditioned suits, consider wearing a shawez kameez or other clothing that has been developed by the locals over a thousand years to deal with the climate. Since the Americans are going to be there for a long time, they may as well start making an effort to blend in.
Iraq has been invaded countless times in its history. After a few years the invaders either move on to someplace with better weather or they start the long process of becoming just another minority in Iraq. The Americans are really any different. Eventually the individual solders will drift out of the command structure and find that they have to make a seperate peace with the local people. Dressing like them is a good start.
The term war is now only utilized for government policies with no chance of success, such as the "War on Drugs", the "War on Poverty" and the "War on Terror". And since we have no hope of winning, "war" is now a permanent state of affairs.
Soylent Green is peoplicious!
Take an off the shelf cool suit vest with collar and cap (Waterblock) and connect it to a canteen (pump/reservoir), and then to a second cool suit vest(radiator) over your jacket/flackvest (case). You might connect a Peltier cooler, since the temp differential needed shouldn't exceed 50-60 degrees, Farenheit. A rechargable 12VDC pack for the cooler and pump, and you're DONE!
If I say I'm an engineer, can I get a fat gov. contract?
When you want something built, come see me. If you want correct grammar and spelling, get a F*ing liberal arts student.
Now all American soldiers will look like Mr. Freeze and spew inane one-liners at Iraqis... "I'll put joo in da koolah!!"
I want to play Free Market with a drowning Libertarian.
Ugh. Next thing people are complaining that they're being shot at, huh ? This is friggin' WAR they're fighting (even if the meaning of WAR seems to be lost to most Americans. When was the last time a fleet of bombers dumped a couple thousands tons of explosives on a city, and did the same thing to a different city for the next few weeks ?), and if they can't deal with a little bit of personal discomfort, such as being slightly too hot, maybe they should quit their job and look for some nice and cushy desk job in a safe, air-conditioned office.
And can it take the opening shock of a parachute, impact with the ground, does it make my already heavy as f*** load heavier, and can it take abuse from privates in the infantry? Let me tell you, almost nothing can withstand the latter. We break everything.
"... just cooling the head by 2-3 degrees celsius (4-5 fahrenheit?) helps a lot in letting a person concentrate"
I was in Mexico some time ago, in some touristy, but un-air-conditioned bar. It was summer, very hot, and I was very relieved to find that they had large ice blocks placed in each of the heads. I found that it really cuts down on the smell, and does,indeed, help a person concentrate. That particular tank's mission was fulfilled very nicely.
Theyre even cheaper on the planet Dune.
IIRC it recycles your own waste. Great message to send to the troops!
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
... redeploy them in michigan: this time of the year, they are bound not to die of heatstrokes.
ant
And play baseball.
And are now a democracy, not an autocratic empire with a warrior caste that fought to the death, including by suicide attacks.
And them Germans. They've got themselves a democracy, also. Hell, they haven't even invaded France since Russian tanks poured into Berlin and US tanks poured over the Rhine.
Oh, both places still have US troops deployed in them. 60+ years after the murderous dictators were deposed.
A fleet of Asimo's fully armed and ARMORED. Bring in the Droids. Why put human life through that.
Does this mean we can overclock our soldiers?
I am a doctor and because I happen to live in one of the few last european retard countries that still has moronic stuff like obligatory military service, I had to work in a small military hospital.
...) trapped in such small confined space, overheating happens very easily.
It was summer, it was *very* hot (unussual for this country).
A few of the young soldiers collapsed because of Hyperthermia during exercices in tanks.
Not only was the weather hot, but it was even hotter inside the tank (witch is under direct sun, doesn't radiate a lot and doesn't have large openings, to lower risk of detection. These old models don't have AC). With a lot of people wearing a huge amount of clothing and equipment (uniform, armor, harness,
Also I don't even mention how some chiefs succeded to fuck up the water supply managment during long marching exercises.
So : Yes, given such problems with heat, this kind of technology is welcome. Although I'm sure some officiers can still manage to find a way to fuckup and bring more overheated soldiers to the hospital.
About the Air Conditionning :
I *think* (it's just quick guestimation) the worst effects of the AC are :
- because, obviously, they only work inside, when one is going from one place to another, one is constantly alternating hot/freezing environnements. Which isn't good.
- AC functions by convection (cold air circulation). So you don't get only cold air, but you got actually *cold wind*, which can freeze much more. 18C isn't a cold temperature. But, stong wind blowing at 18C can cool you a lot (surface skin temperature is somewhere near 30C +/- 5C. Don't remember more exact figures), specially if you aren't properly dressed (as everyone dresses on hot days).
- Near the "wind source", the temperature can be even lower. You can get harmed (or at least sick) if you fall asleep near the AC source. (The exact same opposite as falling asleap to close to the heat source in winter)
That's why we european have to always take sweatshirts when we travel in the USA, to avoid catching cold because of the strong A/C inside.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
There is a company called bioCOOL that makes similar cooling suits.
In my humble opinion, the bioCOOL suits are better.
One more thing to help put the TARD in TARDEC. *sigh*
Here is a link to a story on the bioCOOL company
Goto:
http://www.sarta.org/default/index.cfm
And click on the "Spacesuit Designer Aims To Take Some Of Heat Out Of Military Life" link.
And I can think of 3,000 who came before the 30,000 as a consequence of just 19 (terrorists)? And what was your point again? hmmm?
Anyone scan the headlines and see that TARDIS was involved in this story? I clicked the story link, and what do I see?
The vests were developed by the Army's Tank Automotive Research, Development & Ingineering Senter, known as TARDIS
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
if they can spend money on air conditioning/ why not spend armor for the jeep
They could make them smaller, portable, released for civilians, not a bigallion dollars, and maybe throw in some designer colors.
Then I would consider getting one to wear in my own car.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
A great big HOORAH! from a fellow slashdotter in Afghanistan.
Non tam praeclarum est scire Latine, quam turpe nescire
-- Cicero
For what it's worth this isn't all that new.
a ctsheets/f05_e.html
a ctsheets/f05_e.html
Canadian helicopter crews used cooling suits in the first gulf war... The suits were jury rigged together by Defence Research and Development of Canada (DRDC) in under a couple of weeks and allowed flight crews to remain in the air for longer periods...
See the DRDC website at:
http://www.toronto.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/publications/f
The Shearwater Aviation Museam in Halifax has one of the suits on display:
http://www.toronto.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/publications/f
The US Army will never ever wear iraqi clothes!
Why?
Because this will show the US citizen and polticans:
- the #1 viagra consuming country in the world needs more money to spend to push climate change all over the world.
- Islam superior to konservative US christianity because weather is against liberators.
- Super duper expensive high tech cooling gear only second place after traditional desert clothing
- Wearing the same clothes means fraternisation ==> Fraternisation is forbidden for army personel except in Guantanamo.
- it's amazing you are still reading my post
- why?
- okay nothing more to see move on.
- hey you are still here!
- go away or I tell the DHS you are reading slashdot
Grundgesetz * 23. Mai 1949 - 30. November 2007 - http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/
That's because you don't have full gears on. Go to a surplus store and slap all the gulf war tac gears on and try to drive with knee pads, and steer with elbow pads. Then tell me it isn't hot wherever you were.
The M-1 (I presume you mean Abrams tank) is fine. It's massively oversized, but if you can get it to the field of battle, the survivability is very appreciated.
But forget that, we have had some incredible tools for our forces. Like the M2 machine gun.
John Browning was a brilliant man. The 1911 is 100 years old now, and still an incredible piece of work. And you can own one (well, a replica) for a very affordable price. Any engineer could learn a lot from a study of this invention. (And I don't even own any guns)
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Flack != Bullet-proof;
.223 caliber (M16) because, it is made around articulated ceramic/steel plates with a touch of Kevlar fabric to hold it together. My Korean war era flack vests are rated to stop a .50 caliber [from ~100 meters] round (although those are steel), and my lighter composite vests from Vietnam are rated for close range 7.62 NATO (and I'm sure current generation vests are better).
.223 caliber rounds, they are not steel cored, although the soviet 7.62 NATO rounds were... the reason they penetrate armor so well is their profile, a 53 grain .223 caliber bullet (about the weight of a hollow point 9mm) is long and skinny like a javelin with the impact surface remarkably similar to a .22 caliber round (squirrel/small game munitions). The Small striking surface increases the pressure exerted per square inch creating a higher probability of penetration (fun experiment, buy a Kevlar vest and see if it stops a sharp knife [no, not while it's on someone of course]).
A bullet proof jacket is normally made exclusively from layered fabric with an optional flack plate (modern use, older bullet-proof armor was made from solid plate).
A flack jacket will indeed stop a 7.62 NATO (AK-47) round, as well as a
As for the
The Geek in Black
I know my BCD's (when I'm Sober)
Just do like I did for over a year. Drink tonnes of water and sweat your ass off while trying to keep from passing out. In fact, you can make your tea or coffee from your MRE and don't even have to boil the water...how great is that? Yes it does really reach 130 deg. in the summer and durring the heat of mid-day, we are mostly the only idiots running around in it. The Iraqis mostly stay inside for those few peak hours of the day.
Fuck you and fuck off, asshole. My best friend's little brother was killed in the north tower and I don't appreciate you presuming to speak for him, especially when I know where he would stand politically on issues like these, and believe me, that's nowhere near flag-waving rednecks like you.
How about cooling vests while wearing personal protective equipmentt for chem warfare? I've thought about fashioning medical cooling packs into a vest to wear underneath my chem warfare suit. You wouldn't believe how hot those suits get when trying to do any kind of work, like lifting patients on a litter. And don't get me started on the 'breathing through a straw' while wearing the gas mask!
Eventually the individual solders will drift out of the command structure and find that they have to make a seperate peace with the local people.
Oh yeah, bound to. I mean, it's simply so much easier to just sorta 'drift out of the command structure', desert, change skin color, learn Arabic, and become an Iraqi than it is to finish your tour and go home.
You may not be aware of this, but as things currently stand:
--The US Army, as a rule, frowns on soldiers who 'drift out of the command structure'.
--Iraq, as a rule, does not appear to offer an easy path to a happy and secure life to deserters from occupying armies.
I agree, though, that if the parent post's sheer naievete could be weaponized, it would be deadly enough to force any of these circumstances to change.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
The weather is rather pleasant right now in Baghdad.
I used to think that US forces were happless victims, poor simple folk who only wanted an education and a job.
But after reading numerous accounts and opinions by US soldiers on message boards and such, I have come to the opinion, that US soldiers are merely willing mercenaries -blood thirsty ones at that.
Therefore, I no longer feel bad when I hear US soldiers have been horribly blown up or injured in Iraq. They are occupiers, they are there killing and murdering Iraqis, they shouldn't be there.
Feeling hot while on a patrol? Sucks to be you.
Being shot at all the time? You asked for it.
Getting blown to ragged chuncks of flesh getting to you? Well that's just too bad!
Of course the bad guys never want to think they are the bad guys. But face it, the US army is being the Nazis right now and anything they have coming to them, they've been asking for.
Some say he is made with ascii, others that he is eyeballed daily by millions. All we know is, he is known as the Sig
I don't think they will *require* active cooling but I am sure they'll be grateful. There have been armoured vehicles in Iraq /other desert regions before so you don't *need* cooling, but I am sure it makes the ambient temperature less hellish Rolls Royces Armoured cars in Egypt, Persia and the Palestine, the Desert Rats faced the Africa Korps for a few years in North Africa, and the Six Days War to name a few.
No, the Mahdi Army uses those to wage Jihad.
Some say he is made with ascii, others that he is eyeballed daily by millions. All we know is, he is known as the Sig
Why is Europe in the center of their top banner ? /me going to buy a good life insurance :p
In other news, parts of the cooling suits had to be covered up with digital effects.
On se Internetz nobody noes your German.
I still wait for martial law to be declared. That would make anti-$sys$liberty terror legislation much easier. Also, there haven't been enough political schenanigans over there lately. Europe demands entertainment! ;)
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Been there done that ! Go FASA !
'Coolant Vest/Suit; the jumpsuit of mechwarriors specially designed to circulate cool running fluid through the jumpsuit to keep the mechwarrior cool from the heat of the battlemech's reactor'
Guns are for wimps... Use a crossbow.. this way you can pin them to their chair when you go postal.
I think it's a cultural thing. Then again, boxers are becoming more popular with current generations. Personally, I like having something extra for the sake of cleanliness. Easier to wash 7 sets of underwear and one set of jeans each week than 7 sets of jeans. I toy with the no underwear bit when in my kilt, but one has to be careful there so as not to give unintentional previews of the wares. *wry grin* Not to mention that a choice breeze when there's kids around could result in me being charged as a registered sex offender...
As for lack of underwear in the military, my understanding from talking to people in the field is that a lack of underwear is pretty standard, especially in the field. Urine does a good job of reducing the chafing too. Of course, it was a marine who was espousing those benefits...
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
...of whiney pussies.
I served in Iraq in 1991 and regularly faced temperatures exceeding 135 degrees F and it is not good for your health over a long period of time (tends to keep you from having kids). But the low tech solutions seem to work best like drenching an army t-shirt in water and removing your boots to keep cool. When you are near danger it is far safer to close the hatches rather than risk an RPG hit flying into the loader's or TC's hatch. Even miltech offers some interesting applications in civilian life and should not be ignored. I regularly wear gortex lined boots that were originally developed for military use. $5K is a bit much for a suit but when your in the toaster you will do anything to keep cool.
If I was designing such a system I would use drinking water as the liquid
How nice. But it is winter right now, so imagine those tests aren't too useful in-theater. Secondly, temperatures in the shade in August reach over 140 degrees. If they think 130 is hot, they don't have a clue what hot really is.
Disclosure: I am not a soldier. I lived as a civilian in Baghdad for two years, 2003-2005.
This is somewhat tangential, but does anyone else worry that by giving each soldier more and more gear such as these cooling suits, helmets with wireless HUDs, etc we make them more attractive targets?
I recall reading somewhere that by 2020 the average US soldier will carry something like $50,000 of (mostly high tech) gear each.
OK, it's bad that we have to send them where people will try to kill them... but setting up a situation where people will try to kill them just to take (and sell/use) all their high tech stuff seems like it could be even worse.
Aren't flak jackets, by definition, just supposed to stop shrapnel? That seems a far cry from stopping bullets...
I'm pretty sure that Canadian soldiers get some training on how to get along with locals, which has definitely aided the success of Canadian peace-keeping missions under the NATO umbrella. Do American soldiers get this? Given the amount of "liberating" they do, it seems like something they would really benefit from. If teaching the marines to be polite prevents even one annoyed jerk from turning insurgent, it would be worth it.
I'm sorry, but I have to call you out on this.
.50 BMG? That's ridiculous. There isn't any type of personal body armor that will stop a 50-cal, even today (unless you consider an armored vehicle a form of personal body armor).
I don't know what kind of "flack jacket" you're talking about that's comprised of "rticulated ceramic/steel plates with a touch of Kevlar fabric to hold it together" but it's nothing that I've ever seen. And a flak jacket from the Korean war, that was rated to stop a
I'll refer you over to the Body Armor page at Globalsecurity.org. "The [pre-Interceptor] "flak jacket," constructed of ballistic nylon, provided protection primarily from munitions fragments and was ineffective against most pistol and rifle threats. These vests also were very cumbersome and bulky and were restricted primarily to military use." This adequately describes the vests used up through Vietnam and which were even issued during the onset of the current war in Iraq. On the Interceptor system, which is current issue, "The outer tactical vest consists of a Kevlar weave that's very fine and will stop 9mm pistol rounds. Webbing on the front and back of the vest permits attaching such equipment as grenades, walkie-talkies and pistols. The Small Arms Protective Insert (SAPI) is made of a boron carbide ceramic with a spectra shield backing that's an extremely hard material. It stops, shatters and catches any fragments up to a 7.62 mm round with a muzzle velocity of 2,750 feet per second."
The old, Vietnam-era vest would not stop a 7.62mm rifle round. Whether it would stop a 9mm handgun round I'm not sure, but there are plenty of reports of guys being killed by being shot through the flak vest. It was never intended to stop aimed rifle fire. And it certainly wasn't made from hinged solid plate! Here's a page with a photo. It was made primarily of nylon.
That the new armor system -- with plates -- can reliably stop rifle rounds is a big deal. It was not true before; I do not believe there was a personal armoring system available to the average troops in any war before this one, that would stop bullets. The WWII, Korea, and Vietnam "flak jackets" were exactly that -- to stop flak, that is, fragments produced by things exploding.
You are also mistaken about the 5.56mm round. It does too have a steel penetrator. Nonwithstanding my personal experience (fire one through several layers of 1/4" mild steel plate separated by a few inches and you can see the copper jacket and lead surround strip off, and the steel core continue), there are an abundance of references on the net. The current issue is called the M885 Ball round, it is a 62 grain bullet with a full copper jacket and lead surrounding a cylindrical steel core. It's commonly referred to as "Green tip" because the tips of the bullets are painted green to differentiate them from the older, solid-lead M193 round, which has no coloring on the tips.
You can get quite an argument going with people familiar with terminal ballistics by asking about whether the wound profile of the new M855 bullets (they're quite a bit messier than the old solid lead ones) are due to the bullets 'tumbling,' or breaking apart on impact, but it's quite well known that they have a steel penetrator, and that this was introduced principally to defeat new types of body armor. The Russians have a comparable cartridge, for similar reasons. (Best reference: http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/basics/pmrb.htm l)
Also read:
http://www.geocities.com/odjobman/r1r42.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
So THAT's why the Breen wear those suits despite their planet being temperate.
Anybody?
Aw, crap. Next time I'll pull a reference to TNG.
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.
Chaffing between the legs, commonly known as "jock-rot", is extremely unpleasant and painful.
Petroleum jelly (e.g. Vaseline - TM) applied on the fleshy bits that rub against each other will help a great deal. (between legs and testicles, (if you have them), and between the buttocks - no jokes please). Small tins are available for protecting lips. These weigh hardly anything and can save you from a lot of suffering. Beware of talc. Talc may be okay for feet but it can make jock-rot worse. If you inadvertantly mix talc with petroleum jelly you get a very fine grinding paste. Trust me - it rubs away the outer skin between the legs - very nasty!
On the subject of staying cool, a shemargh is brilliant. The native populace developed this clothing over centuries. You can use it too. Beware of wiping off sun protection cream. A walking stick strap or rubbing your face with the back of your hand will reduce or remove sun protection. Take care to reapply protective cream unless you want a nasty burn.
You might be able to walk around topless in Brittany (France) with care (I'm not recommending this). I found bare arms in the San Francisco Giants baseball stadium got painfully burned red during a game. All for the sake of not digging out some sun protection cream. (Well I was going to dig it out but we were in a hurry..)
Lightweights (green) were okay at around 90 deg F but I can't say how they cope in 130 deg F at blocking out IR and UV. I was extremely impressed with a long sleeve Lowe Alpine dry flo TM vest. Although it was black, it was amazingly effective at keeping the sun off and regulating body temperature. At night it was just a case of putting on a goretex jacket and a balaclava helmet while walking.
When active systems fail, you need to rely on passive systems. Keep it simple.
Re wearing a kilt - it might be good for catching locusts...
Don't even think about wearing a kilt in the area of Tyndrum in Scotland. The midges there don't know that jungle formula insect repellant is supposed to ward them off. If you happen to go camping there, make sure you have mosquito mesh in your tent. If you go walking there , take a mosi neat to wear over your head.
Cheers!
My hyperlinks aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
Why not just add air conditioning to the vehicles? Would probably be cheaper too....
The last three headlines, including this one:
U.S. Army Testing Personal Cooling Suits
The Future of Tech And NSA Wiretaps
Xbox Modders Charged Under DMCA
There seemed to be something depressing when I saw all three of them in a row.
Whedon Calls Death Knell For Firefly
That's got to hurt, too.
No sig for you! Come back one year!
Detroit is no longer the capital of the automobile manufacturing universe.
Jason Vines - Chrysler Group Vice President of Communications
"Okay..let's try this one more time. There is no Big Three. The Chrysler Group is a unit of a company based in Germany. That leaves two auto companies with headquarters in the U.S., and none of them is us. I've been pounding away at this for a year and yet some publications can't seem to purge this outdated term from their vocabularies.
In today's Detroit Free Press, the lead story contained a sub-headline shouting "Ford, Chrysler and GM skid toward a 50 percent market share."
Sure. If you lump us all together it's technically accurate, but unfair. The fact is, only GM and Ford have lost market share this year. The Chrysler Group's U.S. share has actually increased a full half-point in November. While the other guys are cutting plants and jobs, we've secured the future of plants in Belvidere, Ill., Sterling Heights, Mich., and Toledo, Ohio, while opening a new joint venture global engine plant in Dundee, Mich. Are we becoming leaner at the same time? Yup. But that only adds to our profitability and productivity.
Should we be mentioned as a member of group to which we don't belong? Nope. Now let's look at the nonsense splashed across the pages of the Chicago Tribune. That paper's headline screams "Big Three's Pain Ripples Across the Midwest."
Pain? The only pain here is the extra effort it might have taken to get it right. In all fairness, the headline writer had no choice but to use the lazy, unfair shortcut since the story's two writers took well advantage of using it five times in the body of the story.
Now ditto to everything I said above regarding the Free Press's transgression, but I should point out to the Trib you might want to take a look about an hour up the road from your Michigan Avenue newsroom--the Belvidere Assembly is right in your backyard. The workers there who will enjoy continued employment building great products might be wondering exactly what pain you're speaking of.
So what's it going to take to erase the term from the lexicon? The Men in Black are way too busy to neuralize everyone, so I'll just have to trust you."
Quite clearly, my point was that we had 3,000 people who were not in fact able to "return home safely" despite the fact that "we" hadn't "declar[ed] war on people."
I guess you could say the GP is technically correct if you restrict his/her use of "them" to mean American soldiers, and not civilians. Our soldiers would indeed "return home safely" if we never used them to fight. But so what? The job of a soldier is not to be safe -- it is to put himself or herself in harm's way to protect American lives and interests. The GP's post was labeled "insightful" despite having nothing to say about whether the troops *should* be fighting. I don't get it -- what's insightful about pointing out that being a soldier is dangerous?
- AJ