Software Developer Beats Pirate in Boxing Ring

utki writes "The Moscow Times is reporting that the chief software architect at Russian software developer Cognitive Technologies, Andrei Smirnov, recently won a boxing match organized between himself and a software pirate he caught selling bootlegged software CD's at a Moscow market. At last, a practical and entertaining model for dealing with software piracy (MPAA and RIAA take note), and perhaps a useful way to channel Steve Ballmer's aggression too."

Comments

remember kids:

[Surt]

Words are not the answer, fists will better solve your problems.

Re:remember kids:

[HolyCrapSCOsux]

Would have been slightly more interesting if the outcome was the opposite.

Re:remember kids:

[Excen]

Words are not the answer, fists will better solve your problems.
 
Except in the realm of sexual frustration.

Re:remember kids:

[Valdrax]

Would have been slightly more interesting if the outcome was the opposite.

No it wouldn't. Continuing the fight was the pirate's idea (no idea who started it). It's poetic justice that the thug who wanted to keep fighting got a beating for it.

Of course, I much prefer living in a country where the cops tell both sides to cool it off, but maybe that's just me.

Re:remember kids:

[jeffmeden]

We are clearly at a point where words are not necessarily always a good answer. Look at our situation: a generation of kids were raised on 'fight mature, settle it in court' and now we have armies of lawyers and volumes of bad bad laws made by people who decided to molest the legal system into seeing it their way. There are too many good examples of this to name. Clearly, words are not always the answer. Violence is not always the answer. What is?

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

what?

Re:remember kids:

[LiquidCoooled]

Rimmer: "The time for talking is over. We have to get tough. I say we hit it hard, we hit it fast, with a major - and I mean MAJOR - leaflet campaign.
Then while it's reeling from that we follow up with a car boot sale, a whist drive, some street theatre...
And if that doesn't work, I'm sorry, but it's time for the T-shirts. 'Mutants Out!' 'Chameleonic life forms, no thanks!'
And if that doesn't work I don't know what to do."

Re:remember kids:

[Surt]

Actually I think the outcome is much more interesting to consider if the guy we think of as 'good' is the loser. In this case the guy who is doing the 'pirating' and the thuggery loses.

Re:remember kids:

[Lumpy]

Actually at times it is.

My daughter was constantly beign harassed by this girl at school that was patting her down and stealing her money, cellphone,etc...

I told her that next time to grab her hair and pull down as hard as she can and put her knee in her face as hard as she can without saying a word.

It worked. she did it, the brat went down hard with a broken nose and when the school tried to expel my daughter I was all over the Principal poised with a letter from my lawyer with documentation of the number of times we reported this to him and he did nothing and asked... " How do you want to handle this?" he backed down and let things go.

My daughter has the right to defend her self, and I tell her this daily. She has been "mugged" 5 times in the hallway by this girl and finally had enough. The school refused to deal with it and now the "tough kids" keep away from her because they now know she will fight back hard and without warning. And this is the good school in my area.

Being known as the "crazy" kid in school to the hoodlums is a good thing. I had to put a kid's head through the locker in Junior high to get them to leave me the hell alone. Parents need to be ready to fully back their children when they defend themselves.

Re:remember kids:

[Surt]

That's all true, and we all do have the right to defend ourselves. But you won't always have the ability to do so, and so I certainly would have reported the thefts and any physical attacks to the police immediately after the principal refused to solve the problem. Once the police reports start getting taken, you'd be surprised how fast school administrators will jump to solve the problem. Police reports create a nice audit trail for lawsuits, and that fear will get your problem solved in no time, with the added benefit of teaching your kids that there are options beyond just responding to violence with violence.

Re:remember kids:

[metlin]

Love, my friend, love.

In the words of a great man, "Make love, not war."

We all just need more love, that is the answer. =)

Re:remember kids:

[DigiShaman]

Of course, I much prefer living in a country where the cops tell both sides to cool it off, but maybe that's just me.

Na, boxing is perfectly fine and a good way to resolve matters personally in a sporting enviroment. Now if we are talking about street fighting, then I agree with you.

Re:remember kids:

[drinkypoo]

Personally, I'd prefer it if it were ok to have street fights, but both sides had to sign a waiver in the presence of a responsible individual (like a law enforcement officer) and they should only be allowed to do this if they have their own health insurance or otherwise are capable of paying their own medical bills. Society shouldn't foot the bill for it, but who are we to tell people they can't fight if they want to?

Re:remember kids:

[Nos.]

This is the thing I don't understand about a little bylaw they're trying to pass here against bullying. Basically, if you're caught being a bully, they can fine you, suspend you, etc. etc. Fine, whatever. If when my son goes to school and is being bullied, I'm pressing assault charges. Its that simple.

Now, the one *good* thing about this bylaw is that kids standing around witnessing the abuse/bullying and not reporting it can also be charged under the bylaw.

This has all come about after a video of about 3 or 4 girls beating up another girl was shared on the internet. Basically showed a crowd of kids cheering as they beat up this poor girl.

Re:remember kids:

[oKtosiTe]

Of course, I much prefer living in a country where the cops tell both sides to cool it off, but maybe that's just me.

You must undoubtedly mean "I would much prefer...".
Poor guy, actually thinks the cops are there for his good, too.

Re:remember kids:

[Red Flayer]

If he was a real pirate, he would have brought a cutlass. His own fault that he lost, really.

/Yarrrr.

Re:remember kids:

[Xzzy]

We all just need more love, that is the answer. =)

The females I try to talk to when doing my laundary at the local coin-op apparently never got that memo.

Re:remember kids:

[spxero]

GOOGLEFIGHT!

Re:remember kids:

[Surt]

Sounds like a standard good samaritan sort of law to me: you're not legally allowed to just stand by and watch bad things happen. Typically such laws require you to intervene or to get the authorities to intervene. Makes sense to me ... which part of it didn't make sense to you?

Re:remember kids:

[gb506]

Now that's a stretch...

Re:remember kids:

[Atzanteol]

Oh my noodly god I think I'm going to throw up...

There's nothing wrong with two guys having a 'good clean fight.' We should see more of it. The US has gotten to the point where if you're angry at somebody then it's assumed there's something wrong with you.

A good sporting match (boxing, basketball, whatever) is a great way to get some aggression out.

Re:remember kids:

[BobSutan]

Its better than the alternative: Lawyers.

Re:remember kids:

[c6gunner]

Yeah, man, like, everyone know that the pigs are just there to opress us...

Hey I'll trade you my Che Guevera shirt for some of that shiny tinfoil....

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

> Police reports create a nice audit trail for lawsuits, and that fear will get your problem solved in no time, with the added benefit of teaching your kids that there are options beyond just responding to violence with violence.

And the negative externality of a generation of kids growing up to know that when someone wrongs you, the only justice that can be served is that which can be purchased through the hiring of lawyers.

"My daddy's can afford to buy a lawyer who can beat up any lawyer your daddy can afford to buy" isn't the path to a society where justice is served. It's the path to a generation of lobbyists and Congressmen.

Re:remember kids:

[Dimentox]

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&wo rd1=Dev&word2=Pirate Clearly the dev's win ;)

Re:remember kids:

[oKtosiTe]

On numerous occasions, I have been on one side of an argument, and the police have been on the other. Whenever I ask one of them to express their own standpoint, it usually boils down to "I'm just following orders" regardless of their private opinion.
So sorry, but that does affirm my ideas about "the pigs".

Re:remember kids:

[Wh_TiGER]

My brother once told me :

"Violence won't solve anything, but it may dissuade from doing it again."

Re:remember kids:

[Nos.]

Its that the actual bully will be charged under this instead of the existing laws, like assault. So instead of a 16 or 17 year-old possibly being brought up on assault charges, and likely as an adult, he'll get a slap on the wrist, a weak off school and a couple hundred in fines. I'd rather see him standing in front of a judge explaining why he was picking on a little kid and taking his lunch money, and in certain circumstances, be looking at either a juvenile facility or a criminal record.

I am completely in favour of the good samaritan portion of the law. These kids should be reporting this kind of behvaiour, either to the police, or their teachers. I think this is a great way of cutting down on the number of bullying incidents. Since usually most of the school knows and sees what's happening and have to report it, we should see fewer incidents.

Re:remember kids:

[brjndr]

I don't think normal health insurance would cover street fights. You'd probably need special fight insurance, like boxers get when they fight.

Re:remember kids:

[MyLongNickName]

Sounds like a standard good samaritan sort of law to me:

Huh?! I always thought a good samaritan law was one that protected you if you are trying to assist someone. In other words, I give the himelich to someone choking, and am somewhat responsible about how I do it, I cannot be sued for cracking one of your ribs. Believe it or not, people have been sued for the side effects of saving someone's life before.

As I know it, there is no responsiblity for me to help anyone.

Re:remember kids:

[billcopc]

Perhaps in your part of the world, the police force still has power. Where I live, they would treat this sort of call like they do just about anything else that doesn't carry the sensationalism of violence, drugs or sex : they will "file" a "report" and forget about it, partly because they're overloaded with more serious and urgent issues, and partly because today's people can hardly wipe their own ass without calling someone in desperation. The police get calls from upper-white-trash folk about "shady characters" for sitting in a park with a notebook computer. One time the cops came to my parents apartment because a delusional neighbor claimed they were "tapping into her electrical circuits and stealing power from her fridge". WTF?!

Schools are deathly afraid of anything and anyone. They'd rather expel a victimized child than do something constructive about it, because a fair chunk of these idiot bully kids have idiot bully parents. I've personally taught many full classes of college students who threatened to sue me or cause physical harm to myself and my belongings, simply because they were too dumb and lazy to learn introductory C programming. Rather than shape up and put some actual effort into their education, they cried to mommy and daddy who is a lawyer/doctor/bar owner and sent threatening letters to myself and my boss. Was I a bad teacher ? I don't think so. Were they bad students ? Definitely! Am I a little scared that those teens are now in charge of major jobs ? Terrified!

Not so long ago, when someone issued a challenge, you took it, and you put in 110% effort to beat it. That's what growing up is supposed to be.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's a case of assault, then surely it's a case of the state versus an invididual, not two individuals against one another.

It seems moderately preferable to use the judicial system instead of relying on the tyranny of public opinion.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

That's BS. How can it be a crime to not report a crime?

That would be like charging someone with drug trafficing because they didn't call the police on the crack dealers down the block.

It's one thing to participate by encouraging the bully, but it's completely different if you're just there.

Snitches get stitches.

Re:remember kids:

[Sarisar]

Erm, I think we're losing sight of the real issue here, which is 'What are we gonna call ourselves?', and I think it comes down to a choice between 'The League Against Salivating Monsters' or my own personal preference, which is 'The Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society'.

(I'll let someone else finish this)

Re:remember kids:

[MyLongNickName]

Yup. Click here or here for information.

Re:remember kids:

[Atzanteol]

I don't do this too often, but I'm just going to go ahead and tell you that you're wrong and why: you've taught the child to 'get somebody else to solve their poblems.'

Fighting a bully has two very important results:

1) Staving off the bully. Not always permanantly, but at least 'for a while.'
2) Building self-respect and confidence in the child defending his/herself.

(2) is must more long-lasting than (1), and therefore much more imporant IMHO. While you may stop the bully from fighting you by calling the police, you've now likely unleashed *years* of being called a 'tattle' and 'baby' by not only the bullies, but others who will view your actions as weak or 'weird.' Thus making a bad situation worse. Can you call the cops for children making fun of you? No. You can't always rely on others, but you *can* rely on yourself.

I had my bully in grade-school. Every year he would pick a fight with me, or tease me, or whatever. Every year my mother told me to go "punch him in the nose" and I would. He'd lay off for a year or so, and I'd do it again. Every time I fought back I felt better about myself. Not because I liked fighting (far from it), but like a "man" I defended my right to exist without help from others. Sure I got hurt. But that only lasted short amount of time. The confidence I recieved, however, has lasted much longer. To this day I'm not afraid to fight back either verbally or physically, though I prefer verbally. I wasn't taught to be violent, but to have self respect and not let others walk all over me.

I welcome a counter argument, but I'm unlikely to be swayed. I've heard many people say "I wish I'd fought back" on some matter, and I've *never* heard anybody say "wow, I should have just run for help rather than arguing back."

Re:remember kids:

[l8f57]

If violence does not solve the problem, you are clearly not using sufficient quantities.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

It worked. she did it, the brat went down hard with a broken nose and when the school tried to expel my daughter I was all over the Principal poised with a letter from my lawyer

Wow, you must be American. So, did you try any non-violent action like talking with the parents of the 'brat' or going to the police? Or would that be supporting the terrorists?

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

The only example I've heard is that Paraguay requires both participants to be registered blood donors.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

Happened to me in Jr High. Of course, things were a little different then.

This kid in gym class tried bullying me for months, and finally went a step too far and slapped me. He was a good four inches taller and quite a bit heavier than me, but three swift punches to his nose had him not wanting to fight any more.

I was on his back pummeling his head, surrounded by the other kids, when the teacher pulled me off.

I got a swat for my troubles. The fat kid got eighteen, and I never had any trouble from him or anybody else after that.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

You're correct. The "Good Samaritain" misunderstanding seemed to start with the Seinfeld series finale.

Good Samaritain laws DO protect you from civil liability in the event that you help someone.

This nonsense holds the average citizen to a higher standard than the police. Courts have already found that police have no responsibility to protect any particular individual.

Re:remember kids:

[MyLongNickName]

That is their job. I do not want police officers putting their personal opinions above the law. As far as pigs, they aren't. Actually, I do know a couple that would do more mood lying under a bus. But the majority are decent. I've gotten to know a few who work with the community, and they are decent guys who have to put up with a lot of shit.

I'd be willing to bet that half of the Slashdotters here would have gone off on someone (physically) at least one time dealing with the stuff that they have to put up with. I hear folks whine about their sys admin job and getting the same stupid question 20 times. One anecdote: Try going into someone's house from a 9-1-1 call, finding a guy drowning in his own alchol induced vomit, going to pull him out of it, and having his family members getting in your face yelling at you becuase it took you 10 minues to get there.

Of course, I think Rodney King got off too easy.

Re:remember kids:

[c6gunner]

I can see how that went...

O: What do you mean I can't smoke this joint on the street?
P: It's illegal.
O: Well, what do you think about that law?
P: I'm just doing my job.

O: What do you mean I'm trespassing?!?!
P: You're staging a sit-in in the presidents office.
O: So??? Don't you think we should be allowed to do that?
P: Hey man, I'm just doing my job.

O: Are you seriously telling me I'm not allowed to drive 120mph in a 35 zone?
P: .....

Maybe if you'd stop breaking the law, you wouldn't end up "on the other side of the argument"? Just a thought...

FYI, whether it's cops, soldiers, firefighters, or EMT's, none of them are likely to express their personal or political beleifs to you while in uniform. The reason for it simple and should be obvious; the organizations involved don't want that one individuals opinion to be blown out of proportion and made to reflect badly on the entire organizaton. What would be the media response if a handful of cops or soldiers went around telling anyone who would listen that "all ragheads should die" or that "there's nothing wrong with snorting the occasional line"?

All the left wing organizations could learn a thing or two from that. The main problem with their image is that, while the majority may be quite moderate, the extreme views of a few individuals get all the media time, and reflect badly on everyone associated with them.

Re:remember kids:

[MyLongNickName]

You're correct. The "Good Samaritain" misunderstanding seemed to start with the Seinfeld series finale.

I'll remeber this when folks argue that they can seperate TV from reality ;)

Re:remember kids:

[lagerbottom]

uh, health insurance means that society would be footing the bill.

Re:remember kids:

[Firehed]

So other people paying into the insurnace policy should pay for it? Yeah right. Pay out of pocket or just suck it up. Insurance should not cover self-initiated acts of public (or private) stupidity.

Re:remember kids:

[DimJim]

Ok. I want this to be a clean fight.

No punching bellow belt, no headbutting, no nicknames and most importantly no RIAA propaganda. Yes, i mean you in the blue trunks, if you ain't got no parrot and a wooden leg, or even a measly eyepatch, you are not a pirate.

So, in the left corner wearing red trunks, undisputed champion, Software developer... *Crowd cheers*.

... and in the right corner wearing blue trunks, the infamous Copyright infringer!

Fight on!
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&wo rd1=Software+developer&word2=Copyright+infringer

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

One time I was sprayed with mace by a few stupid kids about 1 ft shorter than me while I was visiting Russia. It was at close enough range that I suspect they tagged themselves pretty good too. It took 3 days to wear off.

I certainly didn't give them any money, but I mentioned "Fuck off" and turned around and slowly walked away. Most Russians don't have contact lenses, which I was later told gave me an extra 30-45 seconds. They probably thought I was Superman.

My friend wanted to beat the hell out of them, and I was tempted, but I was more unhappy with the prospect of some police coming over and soliciting bribes from the "rich foreigners" to get out of a Russian jail, pay medical bills and "fines" for "beating up the poor local children."

I'm glad I didn't fight back that time.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

Typically, the parent(s) of this kind of kid either doesn't care what their brat does, or are so defensive that they might pre-emtively sue the accuser. Remember, these kids don't develop these aggressive behaviors overnight. I'm afraid that in most cases, the days when you could count on a parent to straighten out their wayward kid are long gone. Not in all cases, but I'll bet in the majority of these bullying incidents you'll get no help from the parents.

And you can forget the police, unless there's a deadly weapon involved. If you're in a big city, they won't even bother to take the report. A school-yard shakedown is *nothing*, when you're got gangs with automatic weapons out there.

Pacifists do have a place, though. They make easier targets for the hoods, and thus divert attention from the rest of us. We need a lot more pacifists...

Re:remember kids:

[pclminion]

uh, health insurance means that society would be footing the bill.

The sorts of people who want to solve their problems by beating the shit out of each other don't care whether it's legal or not -- they're going to do it ANYWAY. And guess what -- we ALREADY pay, as a society, for the injuries sustained in street brawls.

The only difference here, is that by making street fighting legal, we no longer have to pay to INCARCERATE the participants. Obviously this SAVES us money.

Re:remember kids:

[hostguy2004]

I heard a even stranger one.

There was this girl who reported 5 times to the school principal that this guy was touching her inappropriately. Her legal guardian at the time was a Navy JAG lawyer of some standing. The girl fought back, the school threatened her with expulsion, the JAG lawyer threatened the principal with feloney charges for "failing to report sexual battery of a child" and "practicing law without a license" plus a few others.

After that the girl had "Go Navy" on her shirt :)

Re:remember kids:

[LordLucless]

It's called "Criminal Indifferenc". Like seeing someone hanging from the edge of a cliff, a rope right there, in sight and accessible, and just watching while they lose their grip and fall.

In this case the crime is not witnessing the crime, but failing to intervene to prevent the crime. That doesn't necessarily mean facing down the bully, but notifying authorities who could physically intervene.

Re:remember kids:

[chris_eineke]

My god, that sounds like a good piece of good comedy right there.

A horde of thugs storms into a police building, wearing hoodies, lots of bling, and Mercedes-Benz pendants...

Thug 1: Officer! Of-fic-cer!

Clerk looks up, eyes the gang

Clerk: Yes, what can I do for you?

Thug 1: We need to pop a cap in each other's asses, yo.

Clerk: Ah, yes. I see. Okay, everyone needs to fill out form Gee Emm One Three Dash Twenty-Three and sign this weaver.

Thug 2: I ain't signin' no beaver!

Clerk: No beavers here, son.

Thug 2: I ain't seein' no women here!

Clerk gets annoyed.

Clerk: Son, if you want to fuck with me, you need to fill out form Gee Tee Eff Out Pronto. Now take this pen, sign here, here, here, and here. You guys can then pass through here and go into our backyard. Enjoy your battle and don't try to kill to many people.

The thugs start walking

Clerk: Oh, I forgot to tell you that'll cost you 100 bucks for each of you.

Thugs turn around

Clerk: Sorry, it's an administrative fee.

Thugs turn to themselves, huddle together, then suddenly one of them throws a bundle of money at the clerk.

Clerk: Thanks.

Brought to you by your Libertarian Party. ;-)

Re:remember kids:

[TubeSteak]

Courts have already found that police have no responsibility to protect any particular individual.

Oddly enough, I have a link to just such an example bookmarked: http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=121564&cid =10232368

It's from the "Home Defense, Geek Style" thread. I bookmarked it because I remembered reading about that exact case in the news.

Re:remember kids:

[drinkypoo]

I doubt insurance would cover the fights without additional insurance; presumably, only other people with the same kind of insurance would be helping to foot the bill. I would assume that this is the way the kind of insurance boxers and race car drivers have works already... If not, why don't you worry about what's already wrong instead of my pie in the sky idea that will never fly, at least not in the USA?

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a similar situation to the one your daughter was in when I went to school and managed to solve it without having to resort to violence. My plan, which worked perfectly, was to:

1) Ask my history teacher to let me switch desks since I claimed the sunlight that reflected through the window was distracting. The real reason was to move between two large members of the basketball team who were failing history and in danger of being academically ineligeable for the upcoming season.

2) Study really hard for the next two tests so that when those guys copied off me, they got good (for them) scores.

3) Fake a sickness the day of the next test, and tell those who I sat next to that it was because the bully had hassled me and I had to go the the hospital.

That was all it took. The two guys that needed me to pass history beat the s*#t out of the bully and it became public knowledge that no one should mess with me. The beauty part was that the people copying off me were so dumb that they turned my 90+% scores into 70% scores so the teacher was none the wiser.

Re:remember kids:

[SleepyHappyDoc]

Good for you (and your daughter)! I do hope that you included a bit of education for your child about how, while in this specific situation, violence is probably the best answer to violence, outside the microcosm of public school and bullies, it is not. I'd hate to see your daughter grow up to be some kind of street vigilante. How did you communicate this to her in a way she could understand (I know I had a hard time understanding souble standards when I was young)? I'm not trolling, I just like your approach and may use it myself when the situation arises with my own children, and would like to know more about how you dealt with it, since it sounds like your outcome was positive.

Re:remember kids:

[JofCoRe]

I don't do this too often, but I'm just going to go ahead and tell you that you're wrong and why: you've taught the child to 'get somebody else to solve their poblems.'

Hear hear!

Rather than a counter argument, I want to say that you are 100% correct IMO.

There is no other person or establishment that you can depend on to defend your right to exist better than you can do for yourself. Period. Calling the cops or filing lawsuits can even make matters worse, because it can piss off the person/people that are doing the bullying. And guess what? When they come looking for retribution for your reporting them, do you think the people that you reported them to are going to be there (or get there in time) to stop them from taking it out on you?

Sure, it's possible that by doing so the bully could incur further consequences for themselves, but it's also possible that by the time "help" arrives it could be too late for the victim.

I am not a violent person by nature either (at least I don't think so), but I am a passionate person. And one of the things I'm most passionate about is my right to continued existence. In fact, I can only remember a few experiences where things have actually escalated to the physical level in my experience (but I would have to say that I was probably lucky growing up in that sense). As the parent said, most of the time when I "fight back" it's done verbally, or done verbally in such a way to de-fuse the situation. But that doesn't mean that I don't think there aren't certain situations that could require a physical defense, and it is every person's right to defend themselves in such situations.

(it is of course up to a "jury of their peers" to decide if the physical force was warranted... ;) )

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't suppose the other girls's name was Stilson? ;-)

Re:remember kids:

[marct22]

There was an piece on some kid whose friends turned on him, beat him, cursed and taunted him both on school property and off. They cursed and taunted him even though his parent's were right there. School administrators admitted they couldn't protect the kid. I don't know why they couldn't just expel or suspend those ex-friends. But according to the article, it sounds like the kid's going to transfer to another school... And he wasn't some little poindexter neither. Bullies 1, victims 0, schools 0

Read it at http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columni sts/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4542623,00.html

Re:remember kids:

[oKtosiTe]

I do get annoyed at some users sometimes, but my primary ideology prevents me from hurting anyone; at all. Non-violence is the future, haven't you heard? Your president sure hasn't.
My point, though, is that in order to agree with the police, I would have to agree with the government that controls it, which I don't (even though it isn't as bad as yours ;-).
My grandfather died under a bus, and I can tell you he did not lie at all. He just died.
I'm sorry for you and yours for your out of control alcoholism. Muhahah.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

when I went to school and managed to solve it without having to resort to violence....

The two guys that needed me to pass history beat the s*#t out of the bully...

FYI, that's not "without resorting to violence". Just because you are not the one directly using physical force, that doesn't mean that physical force - be it violence or self defense - isn't occurring.

Oh, and for definition of violence, a common (and good) definition is, "an unwarranted use of force"

Re:remember kids:

[oKtosiTe]

Perhaps the law shouldn't send black BMW's to follow me when I'm in a peaceful protest against the discriminatory deporting my government takes part in.
Perhaps I should just do my damn job, and shut the fuck up forever so I can absolutely minimize the positive effect my actions might have on the future of this planet and its many diverse inhabitants, and let the rich politicians and big corporations control my life even more than they are already doing right now. Just send me my monthly paycheck so I can continue being a slave.

Re:remember kids:

[barronVonBackstabber]

Yup, couldn't agree more. Schools here in the UK are pretty much the same with most teachers too afraid to do anything or not allowed to. I've taught all my kids to fight back and do it hard, even getting them to learn a martial art to build confidence. And it works, kids walk away from my youngest two, even the older kids, as they know they'll get a smack in the nose. So long as they use reasonable force and don't attack first then they are quite safe, and they know this. My kids also look out for their friends and this is good for team building, all things that schools say is good lol. In my Dad's day the bully would be put in the school boxing ring and have the shit knocked out of them, shame it doesn't happen now.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

Awwwww.. is da man alwaze keepin joo down? Shit, son, you've ben on Slashdot for five minutes and you are already annoying the hell out of me. Getting followed by black BMW's... couldn't your country afford black helicopters to follow you?

Re:remember kids:

[winkydink]

Try increasing the frequency of your trips (thereby decreasing the number of days in a row you wear the same clothes).

Re:remember kids:

[Amouth]

ahhh the memories.. the only two fights i have ever been in have kept me out of many more.

one "put a kid's head through the locker in Junior high" then i sat down and kept doing my work (got sent home for one day for being unstable)

the second was two years later .. kidd (much larger than me) started beating on me and wouldn't stop (i don't fight back with fists) when he wouldn't stop i grabed his head and ran his face down a chainlink fence.. sliced his face all open and they called the EMS.. while i walked to class.. he didn't tell them who did it and was out for 3 months and when he got back he never came near me agian.

and like wise no one ever bothered me. one thing i was taught.. if you have no choice but to fight you better not lose and the quicker you end it the better chance you have to win.

self defence is something that everyone should know. but like wise everyone should know how to handel them selves and know when the best and only time to react is.

Re:remember kids:

[Rac3r5]

I honestly wish I knew about this when I was in High School.
This guy used to pick on me a lot. On one occasion, he just came a pushed me from behind real hard and I sprained my ankle.

Argh.. some kids are so cruel. And the ones that just watch while other get bullied are just as much at fault.

He stopped buggin me after I started fighting back and the teacher caught us.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

The females I try to talk to when doing my laundary at the local coin-op apparently never got that memo.

Prehaps its because you are doing your laundry at a coin-op. You probably have many cats too.

Re:remember kids:

[eikonos]

Its better than the alternative: Lawyers.

The third alternative is to drop two lawyers into a ring armed with two-by-fours with rusty nails. The one who lives wins!

Re:remember kids:

[Kjella]

It worked. she did it, the brat went down hard with a broken nose and when the school tried to expel my daughter I was all over the Principal poised with a letter from my lawyer with documentation of the number of times we reported this to him and he did nothing and asked... " How do you want to handle this?" he backed down and let things go.

So in other words, two wrongs make a right? It worked out for your daughter, great for her. Next girl who tries it could have five of the bully's friends beating the hell out of her. The principal let your daughter get away with a brutal assault because you could reveal compromising information about him, not because it was the "right thing". Fast forward to adult life, one of your flatmates have been stealing stuff from the apartment, and you beat him up until he's in the hospital. Then you threaten your other neighbor, which has been silently ignoring this that he won't tell a thing, or you'll tell all about the pot he's been growing in his room. I don't think teaching violence, vigilante justice and pressuring people into silence is the right way to handle it as adults, and I don't think it's the right way to handle it in school.

And I say this as someone that got picked at in school and got into more than my share of fights. But I never thought it was the "right way", it was merely the only way I felt I had left. In my case, the school intervened and all sorts of hell was raised, and I assume my parents played a significant part in that. Then again, any teacher without a guide dog and walking cane could probably see it. I got all the backing I wanted - but it was never like "Nice hook, keep it up!" it was "FFS, you get off your asses and do something so he won't have to get INTO fights." You know what, it worked. One of the "bullies" actually grew up to be my friend, he turned out good too. Somehow I doubt a broken nose will get all the loose screws tightened up in the same way.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds a bit like the judicial process in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"...

Re:remember kids:

[monopole]

In my case I simply inherited my father's angry mode. I'm very calm and reserved unless pushed to the absolute limit. Then I go off big time. Veins bulging, face red, 130 decibel screams with a voice a register or so under Darth Vader. Most recipents go pale and visibly twitch when I'm present for about a year afterwards.

Re:remember kids:

[nschubach]

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&wo rd1=Chuck+Norris&word2=Jesus
I guess Chuck Norris cant always win. :(

Re:remember kids:

[c6gunner]

Police departments don't use black BMW's. And if cops are present at your "peaceful rallies", it's only to ensure that they remain peaceful. I'm not a cop, but I HAVE done riot control. None of us want to "bust your heads" or "keep you down". If at the end of the day I can go home without having been involved in any physical confrontations, I'm extremely happy. Means more time for my previous injuries to heal. You stay peaceful and we'll all get along fine. You start acting like idiots and you'll get your heads smashed in. If we sometimes get a little overzealous in our work, it's mainly because we're so pissed off that you assholes interrupted an otherwise beautiful day.

Re:remember kids:

[MyLongNickName]

I'm sorry for you and yours for your out of control alcoholism. Muhahah.

Please expound on your superior morality.

Re:remember kids:

[MutantHamster]

Why didn't you call the police? What if this person fought back and hurt your daughter? What if her friends did? What if this person brings a gun to school and shoots her? Not only are you an asshole but you're also a shitty parent.

Re:remember kids:

[oKtosiTe]

I might be a Coward, but the black BMW makes sure I'm at least not as Anonymous as you are. You're so brave; perhaps I should take you as a role model.
I think I will start mimicking your terrible spelling first.

Re:remember kids:

[drinkypoo]

I want to second this, my dad was out of the house and my mom told me not to fight, to ignore them, to stay away from them (as if I could) et cetera. So I did. I was still a total pusswad until I was about 21, 22, something in there. Now, I just have problems with anger management, because between the ages of about 9 and 15 (which is when I dropped out of high school and took the proficiency exam) I was constantly holding in my anger.

I'd have been much better off if I would have just let myself fight back. Maybe you lose, but at least you get the self-respect from not being a pussy* and maybe you win and get some external respect too, which keeps people off your ass.

* I like pussy, but that doesn't mean I want to be one.

Re:remember kids:

[oKtosiTe]

Not the police itself, no. Exactly that government that controls it.
I'm overjoyed at your inablilty to present any further arguments. I can only hope your day is as good as mine.

Re:remember kids:

[oKtosiTe]

When my government deports immigrants that will most likely face physical punishment for horrible crimes such as being gay or having a different religion, I WILL protest. Good day.

Re:remember kids:

[Marlor]

Fighting back is not always smart. I fought back against bullies at school, and it didn't work out well at all. Despite two years of bullying and assault, the principal didn't want to hear about it, so I made the decision to fight back.

This was not a smart move. The bullies decided that since I was no longer an easy target, they would after my little brother. They locked him in a room with several guys twice his size and they proceeded to beat the crap out of him. He was a mess once they were finished with him, and I had a breakdown as a result.

I'm convinced that fighting back will only result in the bullies going after someone else. In my case, it happended to be my little brother. I think that calling the police is the only solution to these problems, and I think the police should treat these incidents as full-blown assault cases.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember waiting for the bus in high school watching some runty little kid with a glass eye get his underwear ripped off by a couple of the school delinquents (I imagine is was called an "atomic wedgie" or something).

I was tempted to intervene but I didn't. The thing is that his runty little kid thought of himself as a bad ass so he was always trying to hang out with the bad ass crowd but the real bad asses didn't want the girls to think they were dweebs by association so they would beat the kid up.

Maybe my experience was unique going to a very large high school in a nice area but my experience was that if you didn't want to get beat up, you just didn't hang with the kids who socialized with each other by beating each other up.

When I hear a story about some nerd who has a bad ass attitude toward life saying that he had to beat up the bullies to get "respect" I have to wonder if it wasn't more a case that things escalated to the point where the nerd was no longer friends with the real bad asses.

Re:remember kids:

[drinkypoo]

So in other words, two wrongs make a right? It worked out for your daughter, great for her. Next girl who tries it could have five of the bully's friends beating the hell out of her. The principal let your daughter get away with a brutal assault because you could reveal compromising information about him, not because it was the "right thing".

If the school won't handle the problem, then what are you supposed to do? Out in the real world, if someone attacks you, you have a legal right to defend yourself. Why is school different? (Actually, the answer is that they're trying to train you to be a good little sheeple who will take the abuse and suffer the inequities of life quietly. This is opposed to the private schools rich kids get to go to, where they focus on teaching you to rule the masses.)

Fast forward to adult life, one of your flatmates have been stealing stuff from the apartment, and you beat him up until he's in the hospital.

If you can catch him at it, then you can report it to the cops, and they will do something. Adult life is not like school. School is an environment in which they seek to eliminate your spirit and, again, teach you to be a good drone. It teaches conformity and neglects critical thinking... deliberately.

Then you threaten your other neighbor, which has been silently ignoring this that he won't tell a thing, or you'll tell all about the pot he's been growing in his room.

Now, I am in favor of the complete legalization of marijuana for all purposes, subject to more or less the same restrictions as alcohol, but you have to realize that growing pot in an urban setting in which you live with or near people who are likely to expose you makes you a fucking idiot. I know that's kind of tangential to your point but please, there must be a better example.

And I say this as someone that got picked at in school and got into more than my share of fights. But I never thought it was the "right way", it was merely the only way I felt I had left.

I wish I had felt like it was that acceptable in school. The fact that I didn't is probably why I defend it now. School was fucking hell for me.

In my case, the school intervened and all sorts of hell was raised, and I assume my parents played a significant part in that.

I used to get picked on quite a bit, never a real ass-kicking because the violence was motivated [I suspect] by fear (I have been bigger than just about everybody since, oh, junior high) but kicked here, hit here, knocked on my ass there. A kid finally picked a one on one fight with me and didn't stop when I got mad and I kicked the shit out of him. Then I got expelled from the school, because my mother was the type to avoid problems rather than face them. I lost a lot of respect for both her and the entire public school system when that happened.

Violence is not a very good answer, but sometimes it's the only answer. I personally think that the real crime is that people are punished for using violence to solve problems that the powers-that-be won't help them with when it's clear that they're being fucked over. I understand that encouraging or appearing to encourage vigilanteism is inappropriate, but it's not as inappropriate as letting people be abused because they can't legally fight back. (The laws in California are especially fucking ridiculous in this regard.)

Re:remember kids:

[MutantHamster]

Concerning number one is the problem that school is not a boxing ring. There is a chance you will encourage a bully to leave you alone temporarily, but often a child like this won't accept getting bested like that. They are likely to plan some sort of retaliation; it's not uncommon for them to get a group of other students to ambush you. There's also the risk that they may have a gun. It may sound drastic but at the public school I go to in a decent, suburban area it's not uncommon for kids to claim popularity based on their criminal records (or the ones they claim to have). No doubt some "gangster" could easily try to prove how tough he is by threatening you with a gun.

Then there is just the issue of whether or not you would be successful at fighting back? What if you only make your assbeating worse by pissing them off? I'm sure most of the posters of Slashdot are not paragons of physical fitness.

Concerning the second item, well, that's much simpler. Last year a kid who had been messing with me relentlessly ended up punching me in the face. He's got to be about 20 pounds smaller than I am, and his beating wasn't exactly merciless. Bearing in mind the fact that I had a large accordion folder in each hand for the duration of the fight, I could've pretty easily punched him in the face.

He punched me in the face once and them jumped on my back and then an older kid pulled him off of me before I had even really realized I was being attacked. I purposefully did not fight back for a number of reasons: 1) I didn't feel like my life or health were in any immediate danger, the only actual effect it had on me physically was my face was slightly red where he hit me, and 2) I figured I would get in less trouble if I didn't do anything back. Unfortunately it turned out "less trouble" meant "two days less of ISS." So now I got my ass kicked in front of an audience and I got ISS; I basically got the shaft.

But get this, I'm much more self confident now than I would've been if I'd "confronted" him. Why? Because I am not a douche bag. I don't believe in fighting unless I feel that it's the only way I have to defend myself, and I don't make exceptions for people who supposedly "have it coming." None of my friends think any less of me because of it because... that's what friends are. If they did change their opinion of me because of it then they are not the kind of people I'd want as friends. This kid is going to wind up either in jail, or dropping out of highschool, meanwhile I am living a pleasant life with real friends. All of my classes this year and next are either Advanced Placement or otherwise exclusive and I don't have to deal with any of the white-trash, Tech Prep trash that makes up the majority of the school, and I'm still good at being funny, and acting, and playing music and all the things I was good at before. Why exactly should I feel less confident now?

If you're wondering what I did to make him hit me, it depends on who you ask. He claims I was talking about having sex with his sister. In actuality, I called him Quackenbush, after a character from John Knowles' A Separate Peace.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

I've *never* heard anybody say "wow, I should have just run for help rather than arguing back."

You've never heard this? Obviously you've never been to France during a time of strife.

Re:remember kids:

[rkanodia]

And when that wrongful death suit comes around, Chuck Norris will, of course, be representing himself.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

I refused to be violent in school. There was a time where people were throwing snowballs at me and I refused to move, I refused to even acknowledge the people throwing them.

Why? Because I was better than them.

Re:remember kids:

[Learnedfool]

What you're giving doesn't sound like good parenting advice, but in many ways it is... When I was 13, like I'm sure many other Slashdotters, I was a bit of a school nerd. I hung around with other nerds and I tended todo fairly nerdly things, such as being a student computer lab monitor. Long story short, me and my nerd crew drew alot of flak from seemingly everyone else in the school and our complaints (whining?) when unnoticed. Finally, I had enough. At the time I was a tall but fit guy for my age, but I had this meek, nerdish posture to me. That all changed when I fought back... After an especially extended bit of verbal and physical harrassment during class I finally came unglued and proceeded to repeatedly punch the lead harrassesers face. One he hit the ground I continued to kick him, in plain view of the teacher mind you, until he was sobbing. A cheap move but necessary in the situation. After they overcame their shock I was pumelled by his friends, but it all turned out to be worth it. The principle noted my repeated requests for intervention and gave me a 2-day in school suspension, which amounted to nothing other than two lunch hours doing homework. No record, nothing else. The other kids involved got week long suspensions and letters put on their records. Needless to say, I wasn't bothered again by those kids and it gave me such a sense of empowerment that I carried myself completely differently from then onward. I think it was that event, among a few others, which took me out of my shell and got me into more mainstream interests and non-nerd friends all while staying true to my nerdy roots. In conclusion, for kids, sometimes violence is the answer. Brandon

Re:remember kids:

[wolfponddelta]

Yeah, sure. Always fight back. Teach your kids that if someone tries to mug you at gunpoint, don't run away for hp, fight back!! Had a college roommate who was on vacation with other friends in a city. Some people tried to mug them, at gunpoint. One of the tough guy idiots with them decided he would fight back. My roommate was shot, the "tough" guy ran away. The whole group that was mugged says "wow, I should have just run for help rather than arguing back."

Throughout school, I was tiny, and so bullied non-stop. I tried every method there was, from telling someone, to ignore it, to being a smart-ass, to fighting back. And every time I fought back, I got the crap kicked out of me. And despite the Disney-esque feel good visions of those who think fighting back makes a bully respect you, the reality is that they laugh and do the same exact thing the next day. Only thing that ever worked to get rid of any bullies was when a girlfriend of one saw him beating on me in a hall, and ripped into him.

If a kid fights back because they're being bullied, then yes, back them up on it. But also teach them there are other ways. Idiotic violence shouldn't be there first response.

Am I a wuss today because I learned that going ballistic and being a violent idiot wouldn't solve anything? No. I stick up for myself, and tell others where to stick it quite frequently. If someone is beating their kid, or being a racist prick within my sight or hearing, I do something about it. If I see kids being bullied, I step in. My stepping in teaches them that there is someone else out there who will help them, they're not alone in the world. And maybe one day they'll return the favour. Teaching them that the only way to solve your problems is by physically fighting back doesn't instill any more self-confidence than teaching them there are idiots in the world, and sometimes it's better to just walk away and laugh or pity them. Self-confidence should come from inside someone, in their own abilities, and not from the ability to kick someone's ass to get rid of a "problem." The bullies don't stop bullying, and there will always be another out there to take their place. Violence will get returned, and rarely makes any point. Especially when the kid you've taught this to does it at age 18, and gets thrown in jail for attempted murder.

Do I think this will change anyone's mind? No. Because some people have decided that violence, or smashing someone's head into a locker, is the only way, despite the fact that all evidence proves there are no weapons of mass destruction.... wait... different issue...

Re:remember kids:

[coolgeek]

Lumpy, you did the right thing. And I gotta hand it to your daughter for following through. I would definitely want to hire her in her future professional life.

Unfortunately, my niece needs someone like your daughter to come along and break her nose to set her straight. That is a much harder problem to try and address. Particularly for an uncle.

Re:remember kids:

[coolgeek]

Yeah, my AC buddy above there is correct. Parenting is definitely part of the problem with kids like this. Forget about talking to people that raise kids like that, they've obviously go no sense of boundaries or effective means of discipline. You'd be lucky to walk away from such a talk without facing assault charges yourself.

Giving the principal enough rope to hang himself, then applying this approach is a good long-term solution. The one kid won't be bugging her any more, and the rest of the kids will know what's up: that girl will break your nose AND she'll get away with it too.

Re:remember kids:

[Surt]

There are laws of both kinds. Failing to render assistance in some jurisdictions will get you fines or jail time.

Re:remember kids:

[MyLongNickName]

Please link. I'd be intested to know more.

Re:remember kids:

[Atzanteol]

Yeah, sure. Always fight back.

Obviously you mis-judged my point a bit (or are attacking a straw-man). But that may have been my fault as I never mentioned that this isn't a "blanket condition." Obviously one should only fight back when it's a valid option. Two kids on a playground - sure. A guy with a gun vs. me? No, sorry.

Other than that we 'mostly' agree I think. What pisses me off is the "tell you kid to never fight" crowd. You fought and you lost. But you *fought*. There's a big difference between somebody who won't defend themself and somebody who will fight a losing battle. Sure there are other options. Sometimes they need to be taken (example above: gun vs. me). But teach the kid *all* of their options. Including fighting when necessary.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

I fought back once, and regretted it. There's a small amount of me that dies each time I commit a destructive action, and I've never understood why others don't feel the same way.

Although perhaps you and the grandparent's daughter solved their immediate problems, all you've really done is make the bully seek other victims. All you're really emphasizing is that might makes right. As a society, we should be trying to move away from this belief.

Verbal defense is, of course, different. I do think that a person should stand up and be willin to voice their opinion in a rational and fair manner. In fact, if you're willing to talk to the bully, who knows what might happen? Maybe they'll come to realize that they are behaving irrationally. People are not good or evil, and we need to remember that there is someone like use behind each and every face out there.

As for you comments about tattling - in Boston, they've had a lot of problems with "No Snitching" t-shirts. While I don't approve of the actions of the mayor and police commissioner (attempting to ban a message will only make it more popular by those who are rebelling against the law anyways - better to promote an alternative, better message), I do believe it is every citizen's duty to snitch when they see an illegal act being committed. I'll grant an exception for civil disobedience against an unjust law (but be willing to stand up and admit that's what you're doing and defend why), but beyond that, I think the shame should be on the wrongdoer, not the one reporting them. Every time we kowtow to the belief that tattling is wrong, we continue to reinforce the concept that the rules and laws of society are not important. Instead of ignoring the rules of society, let's fix them, then restore faith in the law. But that another rant for another day.

Re:remember kids:

[NATIK]

You really think that a guy selling bootlegged software at a market in Moscow is the good guy?!

If he had just downloaded something and got caught for that I might have agreed, but not when he is actually selling the stuff to people on the street.

Re:remember kids:

[Catnapster]

I think that calling the police is the only solution to these problems, and I think the police should treat these incidents as full-blown assault cases.

Calling the police would be a more acceptable solution if they did treat the incident as a full-blown assault case. Unfortunately, they usually don't, which is why people end up having to tell their daughters to knee their harassers in the face.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

They say the trick is, kick someone's ass or become someone's bitch.

Re:remember kids:

[SpottedKuh]

I'd hate to see your daughter grow up to be some kind of street vigilante. How did you communicate this to her in a way she could understand (I know I had a hard time understanding souble standards when I was young)?

You raise an interesting question. I recall that, when I was young, I had a similar "bully incident" with a similar outcome: my father telling me to drill the guy in the face. It worked, just as the incident described in the grandparent post.

So, why is it that I'm not a street vigilante right now? Well, I wish I could give you a clear answer on that, since it is such an important question. Really, though, I can only speculate with some disconnected points:

Well, I'm 175 cm tall and 72 kg. Not exactly a scary street vigilante :)

Moreso, though, I think that once I moved out of the idiotic social environment that was junior high school, I matured to this understanding on my own. Having a stable work or school environment, as well as a stable (ie. non-psycho, non-socially-rejected) set of friends at that point changed a lot.

So, to answer the question of what can you communicate to your daughter to make the subtle distinction: I don't know. Nothing specific was ever communicated to me. I think that understanding was, in my case, just the end result of a luxury I had: being exposed to a better environment after junior high. For someone who may not have that same luxury, I wish I knew what to suggest.

Re:remember kids:

[darkmeridian]

Being known as the "crazy" kid in school to the hoodlums is a good thing. I had to put a kid's head through the locker in Junior high to get them to leave me the hell alone. Parents need to be ready to fully back their children when they defend themselves.

It's all fun and games pretending you're crazy until the real crazy guy pulls out a knife or a gun. I saw it happen once, but I live in New York so your mileage may vary. I'd be more proactive about going to visit the school and finding the bully's parents. Then sue them and their daughter until they take care of her. Or file a police report and try to get their child a criminal record. I wouldn't espouse violence because it does not work in the "real" world.

Re:remember kids:

[NeutronCowboy]

There's two types of bullies: the insecure/asshole ones who just need a target to feel better, and the truly violent and sadistic ones. For the first group, administrating them a beating will get you a lifetime get-out-of-bullying card. However, the second group will kill you if you fight back. See some of the other stories here. They are in it for the violence itself, for the ghetto thing, for whatever gets them hot. Fighting them will indeed make things worse, and there is indeed only one thing to do - go straight to the cops.

I guess the hard part is figuring out who you're dealing with. Is it just someone who wants some easy money? Do they have a support group? Is the group known to be violent? Base your decision on that. Just taking it though will never help.

Re:remember kids:

[geminidomino]

Haven't you gotten the memo? The country belongs to the lawyer-scum now.

You have a personal grievance? Forget working it out with a quick bout of fisticuffs. Sue!

So the lawyers make bank (that makes them happy), and men are pussified (that makes the government happy, and they're just more lawyer scum).

Re:remember kids:

[Surt]

I think you misread my post. I said he (the software pirate) was the 'bad' guy. Though what he was doing is really only in the marginal reaches of bad at best.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, my niece needs someone like your daughter to come along and break her nose to set her straight. That is a much harder problem to try and address. Particularly for an uncle.

For sure. You would be so persona non grata at the family Christmas party if you broke your niece's nose ;-)

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

No, we'd just have to pay for the bodyguards needed to go shopping.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

i say the next time a bully hits you look at him, smile and walk away. I did this and the next time he try anything I had 20 plus kids ready to kick his ass.
Just a thought?
~Nick

Re:remember kids:

[Surt]

Here's a description of one in Quebec:
http://www.cafb-acba.ca/english/GetInvolved-GoodSa maritanLaw.html

Efforts in the US:
http://www.ncsl.org/programs/pubs/399HELP.HTM

I've heard of more, but it may be that some of them didn't pass or are still in progress.

Re:remember kids:

[Marlor]

Calling the police would be a more acceptable solution if they did treat the incident as a full-blown assault case. Unfortunately, they usually don't, which is why people end up having to tell their daughters to knee their harassers in the face.

I think that the fact that schools and the police do not take bullying seriously is just as much of a problem as the bullying itself. I was verbally and physically assaulted repeatedly, had flaming gasoline-soaked tennis balls thrown at me, went through countless sets of clothes because they were constantly being ripped, and endured a lot more over the course of a couple of years, yet the school's response was just to ignore my complaints (and in one instance to actually laugh and say "well, boys will be boys"). It was only after my brother received one of the worst beatings I have ever seen that the school actually took things seriously, but even then they just warned the bullies to stop it. Needless to say, we changed schools.

Bullying can have a massive impact on the victims. I was a nervous wreck for years after having a breakdown as a result of the bullying, and I would say that even now, 10 years later, I haven't recovered 100%. My brother was pretty shaken for a long time after the incident as well.

Bullying needs to be taken seriously, it is assault and should be treated as such. There really needs to be a zero tolerance policy. The fact that people need to resort to fighting back just shows that the official processes for responding to bullying are totally inadequate.

Re:remember kids:

[slackartist]

I take issue with your equating being bullied with a threat to one's existence. They are not the same thing. Harassment is not the same as attempted murder. A direct threat to one's existence is an extreme and unlikely scenario, one that stikes me as grandiose and impractically hypothetical to all but the most unfortunate.

Bullies are bullies because they are confident that any direct, immediate confrontation is likely to be in their favor and that in light of this obvious fact the victim is bound to save everyone the effort and just take it. In my own experience, bullies seldom act alone-- the ones I've known always had one or two hangers-on for backup muscle. Fighting back under what is clearly a deliberate, artificial circumstance controlled by your assailant is stupid. How's that for a counter-argument?

My own advice to anyone facing a bully is to use your brain, because you can rest assured that the bully is using his (or hers). Contrary to the stupid-bully stereotype, I've found bullies to be both motivated and calculating. Instead of physical confrontation, I've found it to be more effective to simply find a way to alter the situation so that the motivation either isn't there or the intention is redirected towards something else. If you think about it for an hour or so, you can usually come up with a list of things to try. This is self-reliance too, and it doesn't necessitate resorting to violence.

You may have to not carry a wallet for a cell phone for a while since you're running the risk of having it stripped off you, or you might have to actually talk (not argue, TALK) to someone you don't understand or like very much. Find ways of altering the situation so that the bully is no longer in control of it and making the prospect of dealing with you in the future distasteful or uninteresting.

It's not as dramatic as being a "man" or "defending my right to exist without help from others". All that just sounds like a infantile platitude from a cheesy Western (or Disney film). NO ONE exists without help from others, especially where real violence and mortal threat are realities (such as in the military). It appeals to our vanity to imagine that we can stand alone, but 99 times out of 100 that's a lie used to excuse bad behavior.

Committing violence always has consequences that reach beyond a specific altercation. How's that for a life lesson for your kids? To say nothing of the spiritual/emotional/psychological harm you risk to yourself in committing a violent act, consider, as you walk away from the prone bully you just beat the crap out of, how easy your address will be to find in a phone book 10 years from now, and how much damage $40 worth of gasoline can do to your life. Because the TRUTH is, we are NEVER alone, for better or worse.

I don't expect to change your mind, just offering an alternative to bad philosophy.

Re:remember kids:

[DianeOfTheMoon]

Try taking out their trash and mowing their lawn and see if you get a better reaction.

Re:remember kids:

[clydemaxwell]

I'm pretty rare in that I think fighting is my business (not that I do it!)
I'd be pretty peeved if a cop arrested me for getting in a fist fight somewhere where noone else was likely to be hurt, and we were both obviously consenting to said fight.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

a) kids criminal records tend to vanish fast

b) what would you sue their parents for? Assault by proxy?

Re:remember kids:

[AbRASiON]

I wish I fought back, sigh.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

"you've now likely unleashed *years* of being called a 'tattle' and 'baby' by not only the bullies, but others who will view your actions as weak or 'weird.'Thus making a bad situation worse."

What? What kind of wuss are you? Sticks and stones, man. Grow up.

Re:remember kids:

[karmatic]

I've been there, and there are most definatly times when fighting is necessary.

During High School, I was in the sum total of 2 fights. Both were with people I dealt with on a regular basis. I'm rather skinny, and as the resident "computer geek", people figured I was on the weak side. I'm also 6'10" (not too big a secret), and have a 720 pound leg press (you can't tell by looking).

The first issue I had was with a wrestler in choir class (don't ask). He kept hounding me, harassing me verbally, and after a couple of months, I was tired of it. I informed him that if he did not stop, I would throw him headfirst in the large garbage can nearby. He didn't stop, I kept my promise, and he left me alone after that.

The second case involved a guy on the JV football team. We had known each other for years, and he felt that I was "full of it", in that I refused to put up with the crap he would try to do to me. One night, he finally had two of his friends holding my arms behind my back while he was going to headbutt me (cliché, but accurate). I kicked him in in the gut, wrestled free of the two guys holding my arms behind me, and held him in a headlock until he nearly passed out (long arms provide plenty of leverage, and because of the height differences, he could only elbow me in the hips). Took 4 people to seperate us. We actually got along fine after that, and it seemed to be that he respected that I didn't put up with his crap simply because I didn't need to.

Does 2 fights in High School make me a violent person? Perhaps. In both cases, history showed that had I not dealt with the issue, and simply ran away, or tried to avoid it, it would have continued. If nothing else, "leave me alone or I beat the crap out of you" provides a decent deterrant if the other guy is unarmed.

Re:remember kids:

[Original Replica]

The pen is not mightier than the sword. Power flows from the barrel of a gun.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, just make it one of those "to the death" fights, that way only one person (possibly) would need medical attention. The other can be thrown into a corpse pit and dusted with lye.

Re:remember kids:

[stanmann]

You know, people have been claiming that violence is not the answer for less than 50 years. So far, they have ~1 example of nonviolence working. Get back to me with more data.

Re:remember kids:

[mrsbrisby]

This was not a smart move. The bullies decided that since I was no longer an easy target, they would after my little brother. They locked him in a room with several guys twice his size and they proceeded to beat the crap out of him. He was a mess once they were finished with him, and I had a breakdown as a result.

That's when you go and shoot them.

The administration failed you. Your parents failed you. Your community failed you.

After you shoot them, Michael Moore will come to your town and make a documentary on how "surprised everyone was that it happened in their home town".

You'll have the last laugh though- so completely detached from reality that you'll think you're on a game show having a real good time, I'm sure.

Seriously though: It really sucks what happened to you, but believe it or not- society HAS gotten better. There were gangbangers and kids bringing guns to school 40 years ago, and it'll still happen 40 years in the future.

The difference is that with mass media, and people like Michael Moore, your whole life might be to serve as a warning for others.

Don't like guns? Fine. Drive a truck through their house. Years of abuse and sadism made you do it. Get on TV. Fuck their families up they way they screwed up your brother. Bomb their whole fucking neighborhood. Or just take a baseball bat.

You might end up well adjusted like some of these people who (apparently) post on this thread, and you might end up in jail. They won't hurt others any more, and chances are you won't either.

It has been said that your life and your feelings are only as valuable as you think they are, but more to the point, everyone elses' life and feelings are only as valuable as you think they are also.

Re:remember kids:

[stanmann]

I remember 2 situations like that. In the first, I arranged to take the beating for my brother, in the second, I broke those involved in the assault, because thats what big brothers do.

Re:remember kids:

[shaedee]

Now...hang on..
If we could convince Mike Tyson to use Linux,(or even just show him a Knoppix CD) then we could throw him in the ring with Gates, Ballmer or both...
It is kinda the same principle isn't it

Re:remember kids:

[4D6963]

Being known as the "crazy" kid in school to the hoodlums is a good thing

I agree, my parents, a couple of jesus-freaks, stereotipically cowardly french, always told me not to fight because jesus blah blah...

The result was aweful, by the time I was in 6th grade, everybody was pickin on me. Things only got better for me when I found out that throwing my fist into people's face when I was pissed off was a much better solution than the "you have to talk with the person you got beef with"'s that everybody from parents to teachers to friends gives you.

Re:remember kids:

[4D6963]

Maybe you lose, but at least you get the self-respect from not being a pussy* and maybe you win and get some external respect too, which keeps people off your ass

Exactly, a few years ago, some 6'4" tall guy was keeping acting gay with me, touchin my butt and shit, i'm very skinny so alot of people think they can pick on me, so I called him a son of a bitch and punched him in the face, he had no trouble making my hit the floor, but he never acted gay with me again.

It seems that people just don't wanna risk being punched in the face, even if you can't lift more than 60 lbs and that you're easy to defeat.

Re:remember kids:

[4D6963]

No doubt some "gangster" could easily try to prove how tough he is by threatening you with a gun.

If you think this is really likely, have yourself a gun. It might seem a bit extreme, but if you think you're likely to get into a situation that might end up in you being threatened by something that you can't defend yourself against with just your fist, you better bring a gun.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

you guys are the biggest pussies ever.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

It looks like you've just signed up for a civil lawsuit.

And given your attitude, it looks like you'll lose, merely because no one likes a loser parent that is encouraging the assault and battery of a child. Do you know who else is involved in the assault and battery of children? Child abusers.

Nice job. I can only imagine that you'd sue the school and the other kid if the other girl was able to hit back harder. You're a fool.

Re:remember kids:

[Alphtoo]

Absolutely right. I think that was the most important lesson I ever learned in school. Young people must learn that other kids can be cruel, and to deal with them accordingly. As they get older they'll learn that adults, especially those in positions of authority, are still cruel and much more effective at it. Those folks also have to be dealt with and shown little mercy.

Re:remember kids:

[RobertLTux]

and why do you smile 1 Gods will (for those that believe) 2 Lament Configuration (for those that don't)

Re:remember kids:

[Maserati]

Now THAT is worth a +1: Insightful.

Re:remember kids:

[Scudsucker]

I take issue with your equating being bullied with a threat to one's existence. They are not the same thing.

They certainty can be. Massive, prolonged bullying can lead to massive depression, which can lead to suicide. Which can also lead to a rational choice to end the lives of those who made your life not worth living, before you take your own. Of course, it rarely goes that far, but bullying can still fuck up peoples lives for a long time.

Re:remember kids:

[Kermit870]

The point was, sometimes violence only brings on increased violence. If your 10 year old punches a bully and stands up for himself, that bully can do two things:
1. Cry, run off, and not bother you again.
2. Cry, get mad, get even- (possibly escalating the violence by trying to show how tough *he* is).

These outcomes will depend on the bully's maturity level. The latter could be a middleschool kid who only knows enough to be dangerous (ie: bring daddy's gun to school to act tough).

Violence can be the answer, but not with children who don't know how far to take it.

Re:remember kids:

[Captain Chaos]

I'd have to agree with you on that. In some cases the bullying can be a serious threat during the act itself. I'm not a fan of Fox news, but Fox 6 in Milwaukee did an award winning undercover investigation called the Bully Project that was quite an eye opener. Along with talking about kids who committed suicide, I clearly remember the story of one young girl who was beat so bad that she received 2 concussions within a couple week period. She liked playing hockey, but her doctor had warned her that it wasn't wise due to the possibility that the next blow to the head would probably kill her. What bothered me the most about the footage from their hidden cameras though was watching the indifference from the teachers on much of the footage. In one instance a young boy was trying to get away from his bullys by climbing a fence and they ripped him right off the fence and continued pounding on him with 2 teachers only a short distance away that were too engrossed in their conversation to do something.

Bullying isn't always a case of the victim walking away with some bruises and maybe a bloody nose, sometimes the damage is much more serious. While I agree with slackartist that your best bet is generally to try and avoid the situation or resolve it non-violently, sometimes things just don't work out that way.

Re:remember kids:

[PakProtector]

It's a little like the Judical System the Lunies Developed in absence of actual laws, but not quite. Basically, what would happen is if Party A committed an act that was an affront to Party B, Party B could just attempt to beat the crap out of Party A. If Parties C, D, and E thought Party A had it coming, they wouldn't stop Party B, and might help. On the other hand, if Party A didn't have it coming, Parties C, D, and E might help Party A defend itself.

Now, supposed Party A did something really, really bad. Party B decides to kill Party A. Party B could just up and do it, but instead, to make it 'offical,' would drag Party A to a Judge. Both Parties have to agree to have the Judge selected as their Judge, and pay the Judge to listen, binding themselves to whatever the Judge decides. If the Judge decides Party A should die, then Party B can kill Party A. If either Party doesn't like the judge's decision, then they would fight over it.

Atleast, that's how I remember it. Maybe Mike can come by and help.

Re:remember kids:

[pdwalker]

*clap clap clap clap clap*

Give your daughter a hug and tell her how proud you are of her.

That is positive parenting. Teach her how to stand up for herself and back her up when she does.

- Paul

Re:remember kids:

[Khashishi]

Who's more likely to go on a killing rampage with a gun? The bully, or the bullied?

It's certainly true that you run the risk of getting killed by a gun if you fight back against a bully. But you have to weigh this against the risk that if you don't fight back, your pain and anger may build up inside you until you take the gun yourself and go on an insane killing rampage.

Fighting back gives an outlet to the anger.

Re:remember kids:

[Meagermanx]

Either way, the software developer was an asshole. He should have taken it to the authorities, not tried to force the guy to stop selling his software with violence.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

Being the smallest kid in school I got bullied a lot verbally, I asked many times that they stop but of course they didn't. After a couple of years of this I had enough and confronted the biggest and baddest of them. I ended up slapping him, getting hit in a stomach and puked but the bullying stopped.

Seems like everyone got the message and the big guy probably felt very bad for hitting the smallest guy around.

(Saw some other threads mentioning getting mugged etc, very much not the same issue)

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it wouldn't have been. If that had happened, it never would have been reported. Mass media will never let on that "the bad guy wins" much, MUCH more often than this sort of anomaly in justice's favour.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not here to suck Slashdotter dick and reiterate that the strongest position is one of pacifism, I'm here to place some very simple anecdotal facts into limelight.

I didn't suffer the scorn of bullying throughout elementary or high school; I played rough. Remember that dickhead who stole treats from your lunch and beat you down in the playground? That was me. I just about pissed myself with laughter merely thinking about the types of wives' tales my prey were being told. "Don't worry dear; he has no real friends!" "He'll get what's coming to him in high school!". These messages young children learn in some vain attempt by a parent to instruct their children in ways of peaceful resolution are total shit.

This one young lad comes to mind because he seems to now fit the profiler of a Slashdot user: he grew up in a household where his mother was obsessed with D&D (thus sharing the hobby with her son, my victim). His single mother was a little on the financially insecure side and she was unlikely to present any legal threat to anything I would come to do. Imagine, if you will, a fat and greasy D&D nerd under the age of thirteen. Every day I pounded this kid and stole his shit. What a faggot. He would flip out and cry and try to fight back, but he, like other opposition to my long-trained ways of prepubescent assault and harassment at the time (gradeschool, as I said), quickly fell to the rocks, scraped and bloodied. People like him and he himself tried several parent-advised behaviours: fighting back, ignoring it, trying to get teachers. Guess what? None of them work.

You get the bully in trouble? They'll come back with a vengeance. In high school and public school alike, I was suspended countless times for my antics. When a bully comes back from these punishments, all they're going to do is come back and pound your face into oblivion twice as hard. You ignore them? Great. If they have a true bullying mentality, you're just a fucking punching bag. You fight back? If the bully isn't a little bitch, he'll love the challenge/fight/adrenaline. Consider the backgrounds of most bullies! Nine times out of ten (I admit to being the one; I had a great childhood and from birth have been increasingly well off. I am now a made man for life and much better off than any of my victims), a bully comes from an abusive or lacking home. Unless your dumb kid is lucky, the bully will not be a total pussy.

Here's a perspective for you to consider: you want your little Dwight or Eugene not to get his ass kicked in school? Send his plump pale ass to martial arts classes, get him into fitness programs. Suck it down if the little fuck gets his lunch money stolen when all he does is exchange opening chess strategies in faggot club.

Conclusion to my tale: years after making his public elementary school life hell, I googled him and his fruity roleplaying nicknames (which he made us repeatedly aware of). Guess what? He's still a loser post-secondary, member of all sorts of roleplaying communities and anime forums online; he's been constantly bullied by people since I started the trend. He whines and bitches constantly about his life on these forums.

I'm not saying this to boost my own ego: I have martial arts tournament trophies for that, I'm here to say that he could have been a case prevented. If that kid laid off the Lays and D&D in favour of working out a bit and beat me in the face a bit when I was jerking him around, he might actually have a girlfriend now and not fit the profile of a sad Slashdotter who sits on here preaching a position of superiority.

You value your empirical wisdom and sanctemonious but non-existent intellectual platform. I say that a man of power is equally if not more respectable than the lesser man who slurps his own dick with the old wives' adage of "knowledge is power".

Get a clue.

Re:remember kids:

[Marlor]

I remember 2 situations like that. In the first, I arranged to take the beating for my brother, in the second, I broke those involved in the assault, because thats what big brothers do.

Well, in my case I couldn't do anything about it, since I didn't find out about it until they dragged him out. The only good thing to come out of it was that my parents realized that the school was absolutely hopeless, and we changed to another school - one that did not tolerate bullies at all and had very high academic standards (and very high fees).

Re:remember kids:

[getwhipped]

"I wasn't taught to be violent" and "my mother told me to go punch him in the nose"

Hmmm... Something doesn't add up here.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

Why was this modded down? Goddamnit, where are my own mod points? I've been steadily metamoderating but no mod points. last time I had them was almost a year back.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

isn't this basically what Fight Club was all about? :-)

Re:remember kids:

[Farmer Tim]

The only difference here, is that by making street fighting legal, we no longer have to pay to INCARCERATE the participants. Obviously this SAVES us money.

Actually its more likely to cost us money, since it would leave those kind of people free to beat up anyone they please any time they like.

Look at it this way: if a thug feels the need to severely injure someone every night of the week (and lets face it, if a person wants to get into fights that often it isn't hard), that's seven people a week paying increased medical insurance premiums, missing time at work, possibly sustaining serious, permanently debilitating injuries (permanent medical care is far more expensive than incarceration). There's also property damage to consider.

By comparison, locking up people who can't behave in a civil manner is cheap.

Re:remember kids:

[Farmer Tim]

On the other hand, his depth perception would have been better if he hadn't worn the eye patch.

Re:remember kids:

[Eivind]

It's a balance, many people forget that.

As you say, while it's not ok to go around looking for a figth, that doesn't mean you have to accept *anything*. It's allowed defending yourself.

Many kids don't really know that they're allowed and indeed encouraged to break "rules" when the situation warrants it. They think the rules apply all the time.

I once had to try to calm down a 13 year old girl that had, on purpose, thrown a chair trough a window to get out in a fire. (the windows of the room she was in, on the ground-floor where locked to stop burglars, and there was so much smoke in the adjacent room that she did not dare go trough there -- a correct decision btw)

She was terrified that her parents would be pissed off at her for breaking the window. Yeah, sure she wasn't thinking clearly because of the panic and extreme stress-level. But it was really amazingly hard to get her to understand that not only would she certainly not be punished for breaking the window, but indeed we all, and certainly her parents would too, thougth she did exactly the rigth thing.

I was just amazed she'd managed, it's not as easy throwing anything trough a window as most people think, especially not when you're 12. I'd be fucking proud/b of my kid if she'd proven that even in an emergency she can think clearly. She even put a blanket over the shards and crabbed out without a scratch for crying out loud.

Re:remember kids:

[Thomas Shaddack]

But also teach them there are other ways.

For example, doing homeworks for somebody stronger, who will be your rent-a-fist.

Re:remember kids:

[SCHecklerX]

I don't have children, but have friends who do. Your story sounds exactly like a story a friend told me. He is a cycling coach. The neighbor kid (not his own) came over to talk to him one day and told him that the school bully was forcing him to fight. Small guy, but john knew he was strong because he had been coaching him. He instructed the kid to ball up his fist as soon as the bully approached, and hit him in the jaw as hard as he could. He did this. Laid the bully out. He gets bullied no more. Another case of the school authorities allowing school bullies to have their way and forcing kids to defend themselves.

Re:remember kids:

[hexi]

Sometimes I wish that Slashdot had a "writer is a dick" moderation. You sir, really are that. Just had to get this off my chest. Life isn't always fair. Thank you for making that point very clear.

Re:remember kids:

[Valdrax]

Suggestion: a little less frothing-at-the-mouth conspiracy ranting that makes you look crazy and out for a fight with authority figurues and a little more calm, rational explanation of what you did that led to a confrontation with the police in which you were in the right and fighting for the good cause.

You might've been doing something really noble, but right now it sounds like you went out to pick a fight with the government without enacting the "civil" part of "civil disobedience."

Re:remember kids:

[fufubag]

My point, though, is that in order to agree with the police, I would have to agree with the government that controls it, which I don't (even though it isn't as bad as yours ;-).

No country's government is better than mine.

You let the government and big corporations run your life? What a worthless, weak, un-motivated little lemming you must be.

Re:remember kids:

[Thing 1]

There's a big difference between somebody who won't defend themself and somebody who will fight a losing battle.

Exactly. As a child, I never understood the bullies. I would be nice to them, and they'd pound me into the ground again. Then, the instant I started to fight back (around 8th grade), I started gaining respect from them, and actually became friends with some of them.

The biggest difference between doormats and losing fighters is: the aggressor knows exactly what to expect from a doormat: they will get what they want, and the doormat will not challenge them. But a losing fighter, especially one like the silent hair-pulling face-knee-er, makes the bullies worry that they might not obtain what they want without getting hurt in the process.

If my parents had taught me that back when I started getting picked on, I would have had a much easier time up to the beginning of high school.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a counter to yout belief. One day, I had just left work and rode over to a friend's house on my brand new mountain bike. When I got there, we waited around for a couple of other friends to show up because we were all going over to my place for some beers. While we were waiting, a couple of thugs came up to us and asked if they could have a cigarette. I didn't really like the way they looked or asked, so I said "no", plain and simple without being an ass about it. The two of them started walking away and halfway down the block they turned around and rushed back with a gun pointed to our faces. The other guy (without the gun), started telling his friend to "break these fools" and to take our money, my bike and my friend's truck. In a fit of pure rage, I snapped the gun wielder's wrist (breaking it), roundhouse punched him in the head and sent a flurry of very hard kicks in to his stomach (I was wearing steel toed boots). After he collapsed, I lept upon him and proceeded to beat him to within an inch of his life - I was literally covered in his blood and there was a pool gathering beneath his head. While this was going on, the other thug had grabbed my bicycle and made his escape.

When the police arrived, they took the man that I beat-up to the hospital and took our statements on what happened. One of the police officers even complimented me on my actions, but also said that the guy was in seriously bad shape and I was lucky that I didn't kill him.

Even now, years later, I still feel terrible for allowing myself to be consumed with such anger. Not only did I endanger my friends, but I nearly killed someone. Regardless of whether he was a mugger or his own apathetic feelings on killing, I am not like that. Fuck the money, fuck the bike, fuck the truck, I _do not_ want to kill anyone!

Since then, I've gotten into a few dicey situations, but I always remember what happened and instead of resorting to violence, I've learned to effectively use my very presence, attitude, body language and words (or lack thereof) to settle things down. Believe me when I say that you will not have anyone messing with you if you project the right image. It's really simple, don't look or act like a victim and you won't become one.

Re:remember kids:

[Mateito]

I think quite a large proportion of slashdotters were victims of bullying, just because of the demographic we are. Although there are a number of Quarterbacks who post here, they'd be in the minority to those who develop skin rashes if exposed to light from any source except a CRT.

I was bullied at school. I was loud, small, got top grades without effort and sucked at sport. There were maybe three people who figured I was an easy target. One of those persisted until I finally had the cops called on him, one grew out of it, and the third finally left me alone when he pushed me too far and I just happened to have a steel ruler in my hand (it was not premeditated, just poor timing on his behalf). Wearing a scar delivered by the school nerd is not a good way to earn cool points.

Do you fight back? If you have no choice - if there's nowhere to run or if running will leave somebody you care about in greater danger - or if running is only a temporary fix - "We know where you live".

In this case, if the school isn't doing anything after repeated reports and complaints, then you have no choice.

Most standover/bullying tactics will stop as soon as the person delivering them relises that the consequences of continuing are real and more unplesant that the benefits of continuing.

Re:remember kids:

[Alphtoo]

When threatened, a person's best weapon is his wit. However developing one's wit and learning this lesson typically takes some time and requires learning many other lessons as well. One lesson I learned in grade school was that, since I was the smallest kid in class, I was destined to tote numerous ass-whuppin's. My father pointed out that I should defend myself but I was afraid it would only anger my tormentor so for a long time I just tried to keep my head covered. And still got my ass beat... until it dawned on me that, heck, if I'm gonna get my ass beat anyway I might as well try to land a few punches of my own. This is when I discovered a marvelous new weapon: the element of surprise. Nobody expected a shrimp like me to fight back so nobody had his guard up; all I had to do was hit them once in the face really hard and they'd usually go down. Sometimes they'd promise to meet me after school and we'd arrange a place (I was terrified but heck, throwing that punch had been fun!) but they seldom showed up. I decided that it is no disgrace to be beat up by a larger guy once. Sometimes it simply could not be avoided. But I could make damn sure he never wanted to have to do it again! I'm now well past fifty, still small in stature, but that philosophy has served me well in all aspects of my life. Peace is to be preferred over violence and can almost always be established through reason. Situations can exist in which everybody wins. Nobody has to go hungry or cold in order for someone else to eat and stay warm. But I wasn't born knowing these things; rather, I learned them a little at a time.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, so long as you mean (Score: 1, Writer is a dick)

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

You've missed the point and provided a silly analogy. According to the GP, the bullying incident was reported to the principal, which in your analogy corresponds to reporting the problem to the police. The authority ceded responsibility and the girl took it upon herself. Two wrongs did not make a right, rather the girl had right, not wrong.

Next, it is unclear in the GP whether this bully was threatening the girl's physical well-being. If that was the case, then your analogy has another serious flaw, as that would be an entirely different matter from the theft in your analogy.

Re:remember kids:

[lagerbottom]

congrats, you got idiot mods to agree with you. I was simply pointing out that the OP was saying that we wouldn't be paying for it if they had insurance, which was and still is inaccurate.

Re:remember kids:

[Anonymous Coward]

Excuse me?

He had documentation of the several times it happened was reported.

what kind of fucknut like you thinks you would lose a civil case with athat kind of evidence?

what are you 13 and watch boston legal?

Re:remember kids:

[oKtosiTe]

The national Dutch (the Netherlands) minister of immigration, known by many for her harsh policies (immigrants are locked up in detention ships, sent away to countries where they will face punishment that is in violation with human rights, etc.) came to cafe to record a t.v.-debate. However, she refused to come earlier if she had to discuss with policians from any opposing parties, creating a single-sided debate. About twenty people went there to demonstrate outside with signs and percussive instruments.

Re:remember kids:

[oKtosiTe]

Heh, seems like we're on the same page then.

Re:remember kids:

[Excen]

Touche. Which is where fists go, apparently. . .

Pay attention Fox Channel....

[smoor]

Man, I can already see the reality show... It will be like People's Court with a twist. Wapner can be the ref... "The Ring of Justice"

Re:Pay attention Fox Channel....

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, we could call it the Jerry Springer Show.

Re:Pay attention Fox Channel....

[gstoddart]

Man, I can already see the reality show... It will be like People's Court with a twist. Wapner can be the ref... "The Ring of Justice"

Nay nay! I suggest FOX hosts it, and it be named "The Ring of Death". The pirates who choose, can defend themselves against the *AA's gladiators. And who needs Wapner, we'll get Gonzales himself.

And, we can throw single-mothers and little old ladies who don't own computers to the Lions.

It'll be awesome. Just like the old Roman Colliseum. And, we'll play it live with the broadcast-bit enabled, so that anyone who records it or tells their friends about can be brought in if we run out of poeople for the Lions.

Oooh, oooh, and to keep the viewers happy, they may occasionally vote to have one download^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ... ummm ... convict spared from his fate. That way everyone will still think there is justice in the world.

Brilliant! We'll make a fortune!

If this isn't a premature April Fools Joke...

[Dante Shamest]

...then I believe I speak for all of us when I say WTF!??!

Finally!

[matt328]

I wouldn't mind being challenged to go a few rounds with the artists/movie producers whose works I've pirated. Depending on the artist, I could probably go 10 rounds on hate alone.

Re:Finally!

[iamlucky13]

Ok, since we're talking software pirates here, not real pirates (otherwise the outcome would be obvious) who wins in an average matchup?

Software pirate - Probably very pale and skinny due to skipping meals and time outside in order hack or organize pirated playlists. Resulting low vitamin intake can affect durability. Small target. Hyped up on caffeine. +5 to defense, +7 to speed, -10 to HP, -4 to strength. Levels up 20% faster due to time spent playing Fight Night on modded Xbox.

Software designer - Tends to be larger due to snacking on the job. Caffeine adds no bonus (addicted). Large mass can offer several advantages. -4 to defense, -10 to speed, +10 to HP, +6 to strength. Can invoke Putrid Socks of Nonwashing.

Re:Finally!

[Surt]

You're one of those pirates who pirated Gigli, aren't you? Maybe you could explain how that happens exactly, I remember when this last came up how people were really baffled about that.

Re:Finally!

[drewmca]

Why would you pirate (or buy) something from some artist you hated?

Re:Finally!

[Surt]

I would think that the pirate would actually be more likely to have the putrid socks of nonwashing, unless his mom is taking care of his laundry.

Re:Finally!

[pimpimpim]

You've won! We can't get any more nerdy than this. Slashdot can close now...

Re:Finally!

[iamlucky13]

I believe you meant to say "The prophecy has been fulfilled."

Re:Finally!

[matt328]

I should clarify. I don't have anything against the artists/producers currently, but should they decide to single me out of a possibly infinite number of would-be pirates, that would incite quite a fury in me.

I don't find it right that they can go after 'lost revenues' they feel comes from piracy. Especially when I personally don't use piracy as an alternative to buying something. They aren't losing any money on me, take away my ability to pirate something, fine I'll do without. More often than not, pirating leads me to come to like the work enough that I will go out and buy it. Shouldn't I be able sue those who make pirated works available to me for my 'lost assets' that arose because of piracy?

Re:Finally!

[Anonymous Coward]

We can throw these stats even more.

I'll just put on my years of sports science hat...

Caffine as a neural stimulant is productive in the depreciation of sleep deprivation symptoms *but* has the added side effect of reducing cognitive focus and having a *horribly* detrimental effect on reaction times (there's a static 1/25th of a second, which you can not reduce. There's no such thing as a *fast* reaction, just a recognition of the signs from the opposition). However, there is such a thing as slow reactions, and caffine has been shown to reduce reaction speed.

So, let's get rid of that speed bonus from the pirate. He can't keep his concerntration and won't be able to spot the fists flying at his as a risk.

What's next?

[tizzyD]

Do I get to open up a can of Whoop Ass on Ballmer for making me buy PCs with Windows? He's robbing from me!

Come to think of it, after seeing "Dance Monkey Boy," I see that his kung fu is quite strong. I doubt though that he could defend against my Iron Developer Technique!

Re:What's next?

[MSFanBoi2]

No one MAKES you buy anything. It's your choice.

Re:What's next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ballmer's a big mofo. He could take on 10 whiny little pipsqueak Slashdorks at a time. Now we just need about a million of him.

Re:What's next?

[PitaBred]

No, but they can arrange to severely limit choices in a given market, thus the things you do NEED are unavailable in any similar configuration to what you WANT, not because of market forces, but because of artifical threats.

Re:What's next?

[NetRAVEN5000]

If you're going to fight Ballmer, you'd better hope those chairs are bolted to the floor!

Ballmer?

[DrMrLordX]

I thought he screamed, postured, and threw his own feces when threatened. Boxing doesn't seem to be his thing.

Re:Ballmer?

[DigiShaman]

No, but he does throw chairs very well! Sounds like WWF wrestling would better suited for him.

Re:Ballmer?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

No, but he does throw chairs very well! Sounds like WWF wrestling would better suited for him.

Ahh, that would be awesome...

SCO could be the one to fall from the rafters and break their neck.

Re:Ballmer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, SCO would just get chocked slamed off the top of a steal cage ala Mc.Folley in time Beastie to beat them upside the head and give them an Arabian Face Buster, 3D and or a Tombstone Piledriver. Does that mean that BeOS, by your analogy, would be colored comentary or something else?

Yar Matey

[LordPhantom]

wow
Nerd Rage at it's finest - what exactly was the positive side of this for either of them?
Only thing I can think of is a cheap publicity stunt....

Re:Yar Matey

[Otter]

Only thing I can think of is a cheap publicity stunt....

Southwest Airlines famously settled a trademark infringement suit with an arm-wrestling match between CEO's.

(Warning: link not really unsafe for work but does feature a loud Howard Dean-ish scream, so beware if you're not on headphones.)

Re:Yar Matey

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously, you never had the chance of punching an asshole in the face. Believe me, it feels really, really good. Not as good as sex, but close.

missed opportunity

[MORTAR_COMBAT!]

should have gone with Chess Boxing instead. that would have been awesome.

Re:Oh, lordy

[KBAegis]

Damn, you beat me to the punch.

Seems unbelievable

[mustafap]

I'm not a fan of physical violence as an entertainment sport (despite having done karate for 20 years) but this just has to be an exception. It's so Just it must be a lie :o)

Nice story though, and thats all that counts.

I can see it now...

[kitejumping]

Pirates friend: It's suicide! You've seen him, you know how strong he is. You can't win!
Smirnov: You will lose.
Software Dev's friend: Whatever he hits, he destroys.
Smirnov: I must break you.
Smirnov: If he dies, he dies.

Re:I can see it now...

[Ced_Ex]

Well, given that Drago has a Master's degree... I don't see this as far fetched.

Ballmer entering to f****** kill someone

[Bromskloss]

and perhaps a useful way to channel Steve Ballmer's aggression too

Oh no, no chairs allowed in here, sir!

Re:Ballmer entering to f****** kill someone

[FecesFlingingRhesus]

Yes the chairs are strictly reserved for WWG wrestling.

Hmmm...

[WedgeTalon]

In Soviet Russia, software developer beats YOU!

Hope this won't become standard...

[plankrwf]

This makes one wonder...
 
Is [insert software company here] hiring Boxing champions just in case someone decides to pirate their software ;-0

 
Bet a lot of 'open software' writers are happy that pirating GPL software isn't a serious option...

Roel

Re:Hope this won't become standard...

[Ced_Ex]

Little known fact. Lennox "Linux" Lewis actually fights for Microsoft.

The FSM is not pleased

[slaker]

Woe be to software developers who persecute The Chosen of the Flying Spaghetti Monster! I foresee noodly vengence! When the seas turn red from Marinara and the pirates run rampant through the streets of Moscow, all will know the power and glory of Pastafarianism!

RAmen

I want a shot at Gates

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone wants pirated copies of windows???
Just so I can get a shot at Bill Gates!!

read your eulas

[stinky wizzleteats]

I can't wait to see a "kick your ass" provision in a shrinkwrap license.

OT: Sig

[Anonymous Coward]

49 20 64 65 63 6F 64 65 64 20 79 6F 75 72 20 73 69 67 20 66 6F 72 20 74 68 65 20 73 61 6D 65 20 72 65 61 73 6F 6E 20 79 6F 75 20 64 65 63 6F 64 65 64 20 74 68 69 73 2E 20 3A 2D 50

Re:OT: Sig

[pNutz]

Ah, the launch codes. Thank you Dmitri. Payment is in the usual location.

Re:OT: Sig

[pclminion]

57 68 61 74 27 73 20 65 76 65 6E 20 77 6F 72 73 65 2C 20 69 73 20 74 68 61 74 20 49 20 61 6C 72 65 61 64 79 20 68 61 64 20 61 20 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 20 73 69 74 74 69 6E 67 20 61 72 6F 75 6E 64 20 74 6F 0A 64 65 63 6F 64 65 20 74 68 65 73 65 20 74 68 69 6E 67 73 20 3A 2D 28

Re:OT: Sig

[Anonymous Coward]

4E 65 78 74 20 74 69 6D 65 2C 20 73 61 76 65 20 79 6F 75 72 73 65 6C 66 20 73 6F 6D 65 20 74 72 6F 75 62 6C 65 20 61 6E 64 20 75 73 65 20 61 20 68 65 78 20 65 64 69 74 6F 72 2E 20 68 74 74 70 3A 2F 2F 77 77 77 2E 63 68 6D 61 61 73 2E 68 61 6E 64 73 68 61 6B 65 2E 64 65 2F 64 65 6C 70 68 69 2F 66 72 65 65 77 61 72 65 2F 78 76 69 33 32 2F 78 76 69 33 32 2E 68 74 6D

Re:OT: Sig

[Anonymous Coward]

4C4F4C20524F464C4D414F212120596F752061726520737578 30727300

Re:OT: Sig

[jcuervo]

70 65 72 6c 20 2d 70 65 20 27 73 2f 5c 73 2b 2f 2f 67 3b 20 77 68 69 6c 65 20 28 73 2f 5e 28 2e 2e 29 2f 2f 29 20 7b 70 72 69 6e 74 20 63 68 72 20 68 65 78 20 24 31 7d 27

Re:OT: Sig

[Anonymous Coward]

426c6f6f6479207065726c20667265616b2e204a7573742064 6f2069742074686520556e697879207761793a202278786420 2d72202d70220a

Re:OT: Sig

[4D6963]

4D 65 20 74 6F 6F 2C 20 62 75 74 20 74 68 65 20 77 6F 72 73 65 20 69 73 20 74 68 61 74 20 69 74 20 64 69 64 6E 27 74 20 65 76 65 6E 20 77 6F 72 6B 20 72 69 67 68 74 2C 20 62 75 74 20 49 20 66 6F 75 6E 64 20 61 20 63 6F 6F 6C 20 73 69 74 65 20 74 6F 20 64 6F 20 69 74 20 68 74 74 70 3A 2F 2F 77 77 77 2E 76 6F 72 74 65 78 2E 70 72 6F 64 69 67 79 6E 65 74 2E 63 6F 2E 75 6B 2F 6D 69 73 63 2F 61 73 63 69 69 5F 63 6F 6E 76 2E 68 74 6D 6C

Re:OT: Sig

[4D6963]

53 61 76 65 20 79 6F 75 72 73 65 6C 66 20 74 68 65 20 74 72 6F 75 62 6C 65 20 6F 66 20 64 6F 77 6E 6C 6F 61 64 69 6E 67 20 61 6E 20 61 70 70 20 61 6E 64 20 72 61 74 68 65 72 20 75 73 65 20 74 68 61 74 20 68 74 74 70 3A 2F 2F 77 77 77 2E 76 6F 72 74 65 78 2E 70 72 6F 64 69 67 79 6E 65 74 2E 63 6F 2E 75 6B 2F 6D 69 73 63 2F 61 73 63 69 69 5F 63 6F 6E 76 2E 68 74 6D 6C 20 49 20 6A 75 73 74 20 66 6F 75 6E 64 20 69 74 20 6F 75 74 20 61 6E 64 20 69 74 20 72 30 78

Re:OT: Sig

[4D6963]

53 46 54 55 20 6E 30 30 62 21 31 31 31 31 31

If someone could mod that flamebait that'd be awesome :-D

Re:OT: Sig

[DrStrangeLoop]

36643631373932303639323036613735373337343230373336 31373932303734363836313734323037343638373236353631 36343733323036633639366236353230373436383639373332 30366636653635323036313732363532303734363836353230 37323635363137333666366532303639323037363639373336 39373432303733366336313733363836343666373432653230 36393734373332303636373536653665373932303639366532 30363132303665363537323634373932303737363137393263 32303566363136653634356632303639323036633635363137 32366536353634323037333666366436353734363836393665 363732303665
36353737323032383639323037373631373332303665366637 34323036313737363137323635323036663636323037383738 3634323932303361323930610a

Re:OT: Sig

[r_cerq]

68 61 68 21 20 6e 30 30 62 21 20 70 65 72 6c 20 2d 6e 65 20 27 66 6f 72 65 61 63 68 28 73 70 6c 69 74 20 22 20 22 29 7b 70 72 69 6e 74 20 63 68 72 20 68 65 78 7d 27 20 69 73 20 73 68 6f 72 74 65 72 21

Too bad

[[cx]]

Most American software developers fall into two categorys beanpole nerd or ate too many beans nerd.

It sets a good precedent anyways (in Russia).

Re:Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

In the UK. most sites I've worked at, the "nerds" i.e. developers regularly hit the gym and partake in karate, thai, boxing and that wussy one in the armour. And that's before weekend rugby or football. Washed down with 10 pints of ale a night too! The "operators" sucking the mainframes were even worse.

Re:Too bad

[sigzero]

Hmmm...I am a national level Judo champion. My programmer friend is a blackbelt in Tang Soo Do. We must be the exceptions. : )

Re:Too bad

[Jinjuku]

Check out this developer: www.jasonburgess.com Wouldn't pirate his software.

Ballmerized

[HunterZ]

perhaps a useful way to channel Steve Ballmer's aggression too.

Chair throwing is more of a pro-wrestling thing than a boxing thing last I checked...

Re:Ballmerized

[cybersikh]

Ballmer vs. Eric Schmidt in a cage match with chairs. With Don King the promoter. I'd fork out some ducats to see that.

the possibility to kick some ea sports dude ass

[Anonymous Coward]

or some of the people involved in windows95, or the people who do the HP printer drivers (i hate those mofos above every other thing on earth)... or the ones who designed the stupid gps software of my dads pocket pc...
or someone responsible of deus ex 2 debacle...

it would be FUCKIGN SWEET.

i think i would chose the hp printer drivers people. I would LOVE to kick their asses, even if you lose, just hiting them would be the sweetest thing in my life.

Now the time has come for the real FIGHT CLUB

[Mad Ogre]

I say they go at it like in BLOOD SPORT... roll their hands with tape, dip that in pitch and then into broken glass.

Re:Now the time has come for the real FIGHT CLUB

[Anonymous Coward]

That was Kickboxer, chief.

Re:Now the time has come for the real FIGHT CLUB

[Ced_Ex]

Van Damme that was a totally way off GP comment!

Re:Now the time has come for the real FIGHT CLUB

[Mad Ogre]

My Bad... all Van Dam's flicks melt into one giant nightmare... Except for Hard Target which stands out as horrid all on its own.

heh...

[iolaus]

In Soviet Russia, developers hit pirates where it hurts.

Re:heh...

[ByteGuerrilla]

oh. dear. lord.

Punish the User, not Just the Pusher

[Anonymous Coward]

Punishing the Pusher (of pirated software or narcotics) will not solve the problem because another pusher will just appear to sell his stuff to the same set of users. Let us try a different approach.

Punish the user. A company like Microsoft creates 2 versions of Vista. One version is the real McCoy. The other is a specially modified version that deliberately sabotages your computer system. Then, Microsoft creates a front company that contacts piracy rings in the West and in Asia. This front company "sells" the sabotaged version for 25 cents per pop.

Whereas the user expresses glee over the low cost of his pirated copy purchased in a dark alley in downtown Taipei, the Microsoft programmers will express glee after that user actually installs and runs the sabotaged copy. With any luck, the sabotaged copy will be installed in the computer controlling the anti-aircraft missiles of the Taiwanese army. Watch the sparks fly!

Re:Punish the User, not Just the Pusher

[rkcallaghan]

Punishing the Pusher (of pirated software or narcotics) will not solve the problem because another pusher will just appear to sell his stuff to the same set of users. Let us try a different approach.

Punish the user.

You mention narcotics, so I guess I should ask ... How's that working out in the "War on Drugs"?

A company like Microsoft creates 2 versions of Vista. One version is the real McCoy. The other is a specially modified version that deliberately sabotages your computer system. Then, Microsoft creates a front company that contacts piracy rings in the West and in Asia. This front company "sells" the sabotaged version for 25 cents per pop.

Uhm, no. If Microsoft deliberately creates a software that damages my system, then creates their own company to sell their own software, regardless of the price, they are guilty of all kinds of crimes. I don't think it takes a lawyer to figure out what a bad idea this is.

Further, I think you gloriously underestimate the ability of the software piracy world to sniff something like this out and then continue to get a copy of Vista Corporate from an insider, just like they always have and always will.

~Rebecca

So you're teh chosen 1!

[Bromskloss]

Come to think of it, after seeing "Dance Monkey Boy," I see that his kung fu is quite strong. I doubt though that he could defend against my Iron Developer Technique!

So you're the one he's chanting about: "Developer, developer, developer..."?

Obvious

[hamlet2600]

Its obvious, vodka had to be involved --- boxing geeks, rather, boxing russian geeks --- vodka, lots of vodka.

Result would've been completely different...

[Tired_Blood]

if the software pirate wasn't tied down to a chair. :)

Really, how do we know it didn't happen that way? TFA states, "Manager of the company's software department, Andrei Smirnov, offered to fight the dealer in a fitness center. He defeated the computer pirate 24-16 in three rounds, lasting three minutes each."

16 points being tied down, though - that's one tough "boxing" opponent! :)

Not your typical software developer...

[JBHarris]

I don't suspect he was the size/shape of your stereotypical programmer. I am no exception, being 6'2" and 165lbs of solid skeleton. No amount of mountain dew could coerce me to get into a ring with a guy unless he was a paraplegic midget.

Sports Section Headlines

[cpt_rhetoric]

"Mike Tyson, VP of Software Sales for XXXX, sucessfully defends World Patent Championship belt"

In other news, "Don King promotes new Dice.com job search section aimed at boxing elite"

Re:Sports Section Headlines

[mdielmann]

"Mike Tyson, VP of Software Sales for XXXX, sucessfully defends World Patent Championship belt"

I'm guessing that if he was employeed by the RIAA biting ears would be mandatory.

Re:Sports Section Headlines

[Bohiti]

..Would be less painful than listening to most of that "music"..

Probably more bleeding though.

uh oh

[ilsie]

In Soviet Russia, you arr pirate?

I like my odds...

[dominator]

against 85 year old ex-MPAA mogul Jack Valenti ;)

*ducks*

Re:I like my odds...

[soft_guy]

I hereby place a wager of $100 on Mr. Valenti.

Re:I like my odds...

[Anonymous Coward]

*ducks*

Warming up already?

Software Developer Beats Pirate in Boxing Ring

[Anonymous Coward]

Molodet' Andrei!

was he sure?

[dotpavan]

Andrei Smirnov, recently won a boxing match organized between himself and a software pirate

Was he sure it was the real pirate, and not a copy? Did he check his license file? :)

Re:was he sure?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah he was the real pirate.

He had an eyepatch and everything.

Pro wrestling would work better for Ballmer

[Weaselmancer]

'Cause then he could go for the chair!

And buy brass knuckles..

[Petskull]

..and hencefore where fit it be mentioned 'incurr legal penalty' shall whence be replaced with 'Kick thy ass upon flaming Octagon or Duodecagon of fury of [the party's] choosing; to be lit in feces of bovine, pork, or cat; and to be summarily broadcast worldwide on PayPalView'...

Re:Oh, lordy

[LordEd]

I suppose this is another form of DRM (with a few digital lefts for good measure).

in sowiet russia...

[rollx]

in sowiet russia pirates are not sued, they are beaten

Bush VS Kerry?

[Anonymous Coward]

Osama Vs. Rumsfeld?

How about MADD against a bunch of drunks?

I know I'd love to kick some creationist ass... Hell, I'd love to do a smack down with Pat Robertson - I'd teach him what mercy really meant.

I wonder how scrappy Dawkins is...

Re:Bush VS Kerry?

[Farmer Tim]

I'd teach him what mercy really meant.

If you're trying to teach him about "survival of the fittest", wouldn't offering mercy be missing the point of the lesson?

Re:Oh, lordy

[Anonymous Coward]

In soviet russia, punch beats you!

I wouldnt...

[Serapth]

Ok... I saw Ballmer in person about a year back and let me just say... good luck!

Say whatever bad shit you want about Microsoft, Ballmer etc, but I wouldn't say it to this guys face. Hes like 6'5 and built like a linebacker. Plus this guy looks mean... I think he would still look mean petting a kitten or kissing a baby. He would hand you your ass without breaking a sweat.

Re:I wouldnt...

[Anonymous Coward]

He would hand you your ass without breaking a sweat.

Judging by the "developers, developers, developers..." video, I'd think he'd break a sweat just thinking about getting in a fight.

en guard

[ch-chuck]

My name is Andrei Smirnov. You are using my software without paying for it. Prepare to die.

Re:en guard

[thedletterman]

What more can I say, this is the coolest headline i expect to see all year.

Another SR Joke

[WaR.KiN]

In Soviet Russia, software cracks YOU!

If that happened in the states

[moochfish]

Here in the US we prefer chairs over fists.

In An Ideal World...

[Comatose51]

If only every exec can be so civilized....

Rocky IV?

[steveo777]

I wonder how he'd do against Ivan Drago.

But ninjas are cooler than software developers :)

[Anonymous Coward]

Pirates are not cool anyway.

"a way to channel Steve Ballmer's aggression too."

[Minwee]

I could go for that.

"It's the BOXERS! BOXERS! BOXERS!"

Fascinating...

[Hambone_dot_exe]

...but not without precedent. (See also: Wil Wheaton And The Big Purple Beatdown.)

Re: MOD PARENT UP!

[spxero]

Fighting back, when used in the right context, is a very effective solution. I dealt with this in junior high as well. One kid would not leave me alone for a few weeks straight. Once I slammed his face into the back of the bus' chair it was a whole new ballgame.

It's nice to hear of parents that are teaching their children good values, as well as standing up to the schools(who seem to overstep their boundaries in certain situations and ignore responsibilities in others).

fight promoted as...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Thrilla in Scintilla

Of course he won...

[Anonymous Coward]

Everybody knows that Ninjas can beat Pirates.

I want a piece of this action

[pigs,3different1s]

Where do I sign up? I want in on the matches with the MPAA, RIAA, and the rest of the pro-DRM groups... especially those bastards at Sony!
</THINKING>

Best...

[Anonymous Coward]

story... ever!

Obligatory

[dokebi]

In Post Soviet Russia, software pirates you!

Re:Result would've been completely different...

[heinousjay]

Que?

Boxing with Ballmer

[david.emery]

"and perhaps a useful way to channel Steve Ballmer's aggression too."

I'm not quite sure this would have the stated effect. My guess is there are a whole bunch of otherwise honest people who might be tempted to pirate Windows if they knew it would get them a swing at the Ballmer...

dave

DIBS ON DARL!!

[Foofoobar]

I call SCO! I won't even have to bulk up! But expect alot of shit talking from them pre-match. :)

House of the dead, etc...

[svallarian]

How about for works that I've not pirated, but just hated after spending hard earned cash on them?

I'd **love** to kick Uwe Boll's ass for ruining so many good video games.

That was a cool story, but

[OldManAndTheC]

... it would have been even better if it had been Steve Ballmer walking down the street and seeing a copy of Microsoft Office for sale, and getting into a fight with the pirate - but the pirate was actually Hulk Hogan, and they were stopped by the police, and Hulk was all like "You want some more, punk!?", and Ballmer was all like "Bring it on, bitch! I'll fucking kill you!", and they got in a cage wrestling match and Ballmer threw a chair at him.

Now THAT would be cool ...

Re:That was a cool story, but

[DRAGONWEEZEL]

o.k.
You have way too much of an imagination...

8')

Re:That was a cool story, but

[greg1104]

As improbable as it sounds, your story still has a better plot than the last thing I saw Hulk Hogan in.

software developer slugfest: round 2

[Kn1nJa]

gates vs jobs now THERE's a fight I'd pay to see

fight

[alxkit]

can someone provide more stats please? sounds like an over-paid, over-fed dude totally ripping some poor pirate to shreds. and what about the age diffirence? was "the pirate" a 16 year old boy?

Re:fight

[Arimus]

To be fair to the developer the pirate was the person who wanted to carry the fight on... guess he's probably changed his mind now ;)

Also over-fed isn't much help in the ring... better to well-fed rather than over-fed.

Well done to him.

Yay

[kentrel]

Hey that's cool, and what's also cool is an anti-pirate article on slashdot. I almost spat out my coffee I was so surprised.

I'm jealous

[hlh_nospam]

I sure wish I had the opportunity to beat the crap out of the low-life that joe-jobbed the email account that I was using for my business.

Personally...

[Phoenix666]

I'm cool with using physical violence to resolve file-sharing disputes with the *AA's, but my vision is closer to the lynching scene in Frankenstein.

Peasants: Burn Hilary Rosen, burn!
Hilary: Rarrrrgh! RAAArrrghhh!

The problem is...

[Belial6]

The problem is that some people are smart enough to use tools. When you use tools in a fight, it becomes a whole different issue. Perticularly when those of us that are patient and have good stratigic skill get involved. Unless for some reason you feel that we should encourage physical size over intelligence, and rash behavior over good planning.

Re:The problem is...

[drinkypoo]

Unless for some reason you feel that we should encourage physical size over intelligence, and rash behavior over good planning.

Since there's no way to come up with a fair fight, I'd say that melee weapons should be allowed so long as both participants agree, but no projectile weapons should be allowed on any account, because of the potential injury to a bystander.

If you don't want to fight someone because you think they'll kick your ass, don't agree to fight with them, don't sign the waiver. No problem.

Re:The problem is...

[Idimmu Xul]

The problem is that some people are smart enough to use tools. When you use tools in a fight, it becomes a whole different issue. Perticularly when those of us that are patient and have good stratigic skill get involved. Unless for some reason you feel that we should encourage physical size over intelligence, and rash behavior over good planning.

The problem is that some people are intelligent but have no common sense. It's all about moderation, why can't you be both intelligent and physically capable? Strategic and responsive? Society's undertow to discourage intelligence and/or physical prowess is a disturbing trend that I hope we will grow out of one day.

And never ever take a tool to a fight, the chance of you losing and having it used againt you is far to high for it to be an 'intelligent' choice.

Re:The problem is...

[Belial6]

"And never ever take a tool to a fight, the chance of you losing and having it used againt you is far to high for it to be an 'intelligent' choice."

If I had to have a serious physical confrontation with say...Ken Shamrock in a dark ally. I would be far less worried that he would take my gun away and shoot me than what would happen if I faced him bare handed. Basically if he were close enough to take my gun, I'm a dead man anyway.

Re:The problem is...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've allowed someone to get close enough to grab your gun you deserve to be shot with your own firearm. You don't 'show' if you're not willing to 'tell'.

Re:The problem is...

[coolgeek]

I'm a bit confused. Would a mace qualify as a projectile weapon?

Re:The problem is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if you threw it. Otherwise, it qualifies as an edged weapon (the spikes).

Re:The problem is...

[stanmann]

I would tend to prefer a restriction to blunt melee weapons. 2 reasons, first most people are afraid of blades, and blood making the blade as much a psy weapon as a physical one. second, its moderately harder to kill someone accidentally with a blunt weapon.

Re:The problem is...

[linzeal]

Ken Shamrock, looks like a rabid irishman or something.

Re:The problem is...

[ToteAdler]

You'd actually be suprised how easy it is to close on someone with a gun holstered. I wouldn't recommend it, but if its holstered, most situations you could easily be on them before they had the chance to draw. If they have a gun pointed at you already, thats a different story...

Re:The problem is...

[Meagermanx]

"And never ever take a tool to a fight, the chance of you losing and having it used againt you is far to high for it to be an 'intelligent' choice."

If you're the type of person to panic easily and drop the weapon, maybe. But look at it from your opponent's perspective. If it was a fight to the death, would you rather fight a guy who had a knife, or a guy without a knife?

Re:The problem is...

[onedotzero]

Mind you, an (unskilled) opponent with a tool or weapon tends to rely on it - giving them a mindset of having only one attack, whereas a skilled, 'unarmed' opponent has 9 or more... :)

--
onedotzero
thedigitalfeed.co.uk

Might as well...

[Anonymous Coward]

One more couldn't hurt.

In Soviet Russia, geeks beat you!

Violence is generally not the answer

[visionsofmcskill]

I would say thats a pretty over the top and almost criminal reaction.

Your daughter does indeed have a right to defend herself, as we all do. But telling her to take an action that is far more severe and dangerous than the bullying is a dubious reaction at best. I understand your desire to have her fight back and make her boundries known to her aggressor, but using THAT type is force is NOT justifiable.

The larger concern here is she could have killed the girl if that nose had broken wrong. And we must also remember that this is how the path to guns in school starts. The gangs started off with just fists, they moved on to sticks, then chains and knives, and eventually guns.

If we lived in a society with less control mechanisms (lack of police and school staff, etc...) then i could see a need for more drastic measures. But you run a real risk of hitting the wrong kid who, feeling that their "reputation" is on the line, may come after your child with a baseball bat after school one day.

I went to several schools, some extremely wealthy and "good", and others the opposite, and ill tell you in bopth schools i saw the same stuff. Some kid gets beat-up by someone he was bullying, and he and his friends get together after school and ambush him with weapons.

The best way to handle the problem is certainly to teach your child to stand up and fight back within the context of the situation (dont go for the throat if its someone you have to deal with every day... as in tommorrow, and the day after), but also to actively and aggresiovely pursue police, school, disciplinarian, and parental measures (talk to the other kids parents).

I also got picked on in school, i fought back and never backed down even to my own suffering sometimes... most of the kids left me alone because they just want an easy picking. But this one kid went to far (aimed a very real looking BB gun at me, some rocks thrown, etc...)... after fighting him (grabbing the gun like a kid who thinks hes about to get shot!!)... i went STRAIGHT to the cops. Didnt give a s*&^ what the other kids thought.

He of course called me a rat, etc... and when the other kids started to say the same, i told them straight up, you aim a gun at me i dont give a f$$# im going to the cops and F%$# you if you think im a rat for it.

They never brought it up again, and they never messed with me again.

Its all about respect and confidence. If you exude confidence, even if your choices arent liked, and your tactics shuned, kids will tend to leave you be. If they feel you arent certain in how your going to react, or if they think your weak in defending yourself (physically, legally, or verbally).. THEN they will look to exploit you.

Just be carefull of escalation. If they know youll bring the cops... theyll leave you alone (unless their totally our of their minds... in which case your screwed anyway)

Re:Violence is generally not the answer

[Anonymous Coward]

You dont live in Memphis do you?

Re:Violence is generally not the answer

[ehrichweiss]

While you make some decent points, you have no idea how to survive "on the street". Who are the last people you see when something bad happens? The cops, that's who. They aren't sworn to protect you as you'd like to think and you can't sue them if you get hurt except under VERY specific circumstances and they aren't there to protect you no matter how many times you've reported someone. You see them when someone has done something to you but when was the last time they came to your aid WHEN YOU NEEDED IT??? I'm betting they were no where to be seen. Saying or acting like you're gonna run tell the cops about something someone did will simply get you killed. No questions asked. Snitches get Stitches, is the rule on the streets.

I had my share of bullies and we reported every violation to the police and do you know what the police did, no matter how incredibly serious the offense was? Nothing. They talk to their parents and the parents ground, beat, yell at or even PRAISE them, and then they come back to give you more shit. Know how I dealt with them in the end? One day they were throwing snowballs at a huge picture window on our house and I grabbed my compound bow w/broadhead(that's a deadly razor on the end of an arrow if you don't already know) and put the "bead" on my target making him(the instigator) fully aware that I was now in control. The only thing that really kept him from actually dying that day was that the wind blew our storm door into the bow and it knocked the arrow off the rest...the bully saw it and attempted to charge me but was made acutely aware, as he was running up the steps of our porch, that all I had to do was pull the arrow off the bow and use it like a spear or knife...his face turned white and they dispersed with a quickness. They'd try to ambush me at other times and they'd discover I had stilettos, butterfly knives, and even compasses(the kind you use for geometry class) and they all drew lots of blood if used. By my senior year of school, they were content with leaving me alone and even attempting to buddy up with me on occasion.

Re:Violence is generally not the answer

[rumblin'rabbit]

But telling her to take an action that is far more severe and dangerous than the bullying is a dubious reaction at best.

I don't know if a fight is more severe and dangerous than bullying. A fight hurts, but even the loser usually gets over it pretty quick, at least at the grade school level. Bullying, however, causes severe emotional stress over a prolonged period.

That one fight might have prevented far more damage than it caused.

Re:Violence is generally not the answer

[Fnkmaster]

Sorry, you're totally wrong. Kneeing somebody in the face is absolutely a justifiable response to a mugging. He didn't tell his daughter to shoot to kill, though depending on the severity of a mugging, the law might look at that as a justifiable response as well (in this case, probably not).

If somebody has beaten and bloodied you in order to steal your money or possessions and attempts to do so again, then beating and bloodying them when attacked (not as a retributive move) could not possibly be seen as excessive force.

If they choose to escalate further from there, and somebody were to say, put a bullet in their head in self-defense, then it is entirely justified too. The police are there to protect and serve, but they can't watch your back every minute. Self-defense from violent criminals is a constitutionally-guaranteed right (this is coming from a fairly liberal Democrat too, though I am admittedly pro-Second Amendment, within a reasonable context).

Re:Violence is generally not the answer

[themusicgod1]

"If we lived in a society with less control mechanisms (lack of police and school staff, etc...)"
Problem 1 with your post: You assume everyone lives in your type of society. Different survival tactics work for different areas. Unless I'm missing something in game theory, which is possible


"but using THAT type is force is NOT justifiable. "
Sure it is. You survive through it, and you justify it to yourself later.

"The best way to handle the problem" Problem 2 : never assume you have the right problem definition. Who knows what the problem is? Mabye the problem is insufficient funds to social programs, or too much funds altogether to social programs. Or mabye it's that you've had a bad day at work today.

Re:Violence is generally not the answer

[Lifewish]

I have it on good authority (martial arts instructor) that the idea of killing someone by hitting their nose is an urban legend. Nose cartilage isn't tough enough to break through the skull. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I saw this fight

[dilvish_the_damned]

"N-Not-Not today T-Timmy. Not to-today."
"Timmy!"

When did we drink the Kool-Aid?

[SleepyHappyDoc]

I've noticed virtually every comment refers to the bootlegging of software as 'piracy'. These are not our words, but the words of the propaganda machine, and yet we seem to be using them as our own. The bootlegger in question appears to have been selling their bootlegged wares (warez?), which certainly makes them the lowest level of scum, giving the rest of the casual bootleggers a bad name, but a 'pirate'? When did we drink the Kool-Aid and accept this word as the right term for this kind of activity?

Not trying to be a grammar nazi, I just hate to see the propaganda machine scoring a win, and I see many threads in other discussions disputing the use of 'piracy' as it relates to downloaded music.

Re:When did we drink the Kool-Aid?

[glwtta]

When did we drink the Kool-Aid and accept this word as the right term for this kind of activity?

A long time ago; it's even more firmly embedded in popular usage than 'hacker'.

This battle has been fought and lost, and slashdot rants aren't going to fix that. That's what makes it not just a propaganda machine, but a good propaganda machine.

Re:When did we drink the Kool-Aid?

[Kickasso]

If my source doesn't lie, the word "pirate" in this sense is first recorded in 1701.

Re:When did we drink the Kool-Aid?

[Anonymous Coward]

In other news, researchers at Oxford have discovered that words can have more than one meaning.

Re:When did we drink the Kool-Aid?

[Anonymous Coward]

actually.. i hate to correct you on this. but historically, pirates have called them selves pirates.. ask anyone who's oldschool in the scene.. ofcourse there were titles, like courier, supplier, siteop, council/whatever but the common denominator was Pirate.. // Serenade ^ AOD

Re:When did we drink the Kool-Aid?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only that but this "developer" is actually the manager of the companie's software department. I doubt he sees one line of code.

Re:"a way to channel Steve Ballmer's aggression to

[captainClassLoader]

So, obviously, in Russia, it's boxers, and elsewhere it's (lawyer's) briefs when it comes to software piracy.

Re:Result would've been completely different...

[Anonymous Coward]

a que stick was also involved? now thats going to far!

Re:Result would've been completely different...

[Tired_Blood]

Un chiste.

Take this example: a person gets beaten by a man wielding a golf club, but the man committing the assault calls it "a few rounds of golf". He was swinging the appropriate club, right? And he won too!

Basically, lose the premise that the event was an actual boxing match, with official results. I thought the approach in my previous post was clear but hopefully the above should be enough to explain things.

Because I didn't see it yet...

[frosty_tsm]

In Soviet Russia, the nerd bullies you!

Boxing Match!

[thexgodfather]

I'll take bill gates on ANY TIME! How many of you have actually day dreamed about beating the stuffing out of Bill Gates while pounding away at the keyboard?!? I don't think it would be much of a fair fight though. Now Jobs is a bit bigger than Gates but I think I could still take him. Now Jobs versus Gates in the ring would also be serious window breaking experince. What about gates versus someone like Steve Urckel or Screech?? Didn't Urckel know karate? so I'd have to go with Urckel on that one...but Screech hmmm that would be an intresting "brawl"! PLACE YOUR BETS!

Re:Oh, lordy

[Amouth]

left hook meets right wing.. damn that has to hurt.

Soviet Russia

[koick]

In Soviet Russia, geeks beat you!

Steve "The Chair-man" Balmer

[Heembo]

Now you are talking - lets get all of the big boys into the ring with pro-wrestling names, to boot!

Larry "The Takeover" Ellison
Larry "The G-man" Page and
Sergey "The Russian" Brin
Johnathan "Ponytail Pouncer" Schwartz
etc...

Retail Warez Outlets

[topgeek]

I usually just buy my pirated games from The Softwarez Store. With the prices you pay for some games, it's almost the same as stealing.

Well, they *were* told to cool it off

[dallaylaen]

by the local security AFAIK.

The fight itself took place in a fitness club. Perfectly civilized.

The only thing that bugs me is that if I were one of them I would have been beaten, no matter who's right.

In other news...

[talkingc]

Software developer found to have a secret life as a ninja. *gets whacked*

The six-million dollar mogul

[Mr2001]

Don't you read Variety? Jack Valenti is "the entertainment industry's bionic emissary"... if his mighty robotic fists didn't kill you, his laser eyes surely would!

maybe a fight between...

[bkingaut]

...those who can and cannot spell would be fun.
I already know on which side the poster would be.

CD's *cough*

The Value of Home Schooling.

[Anonymous Coward]

Teach your children the value of solving problems reasonably, like this for example. ;)

Rubber Match

[Doc Ruby]

Software developer might beat the pirate in a Russian boxing ring. Same in a GoogleFight with the same matchup. But in "software developer" vs pirate, without the whole software and development gang for tag teaming, the pirate wins.

It's also about even in the digital production arena. Maybe there really isn't any difference, like light is both a particle and a wave?

Re:Oh, lordy

[ByteGuerrilla]

Verb isn't a verb, silly! :D (mod parent up funny, btw)

Message to the developer:

[lampiaio]

A WINNER IS YOU!!!

Cognitive Technologies

[Anonymous Coward]

After reading the article I was curious about what they do at Cognitive Technologies and it appears that Cognitive Technologies deals with optical recognition (OCR/ICR/OMR), document flow (EDMS), archiving, document search & extraction (Document Image Processing, Search and Retrieval), documents' images processing, stream-flow documents input of and input of standard forms, Internet/Intranet technologies.

Strangely, the company profile mostly shows some Russian ladies who do not appear to be the fighting type...

Ballmer not really up for a fight

[Anonymous Coward]

Ballmer likes short bursts of rage, he'd keel over with a heart attack 3 minutes into a real fight.

I predict he'll be losing a fight with a ham sandwich sometime in the next few years.

That takes me back to WWF days

[Trogre]

The chair!!! Give him the CHAIR!!!

Developers!

[Anonymous Coward]

Say it with me now! Developers developers developers developers developers!

Loopholes

[Penguinoflight]

Your idea sounds good enough with little thought, but really law enforcement is trusted too much already. It would be pretty sad if a officer could get a bum off the street, authorize two "waivers" and then legally let someone pound a adversary. Of course there's little to stop this from happening now, with this kind of loophole you take away all accountability.

Software dev beats pirate, but...

[boarderline]

The pirate would *always* beat a ninja. Like, DUH.

Unless...

[Josh teh Jenius]

Unless "brawling" became so popular that healthcare costs rose higher than current prison costs.

I'm not sure this is the kind of behavior that we, the frail malnourished geeks of the interweb, should be encouraging.

Better idea...

[joshjoneswas]

If only the RIAA could organize a mud wrestling contest: Me Vs. Jessica Simpson.... I mean, how else can she punish me for all of that alleged downloading?

In related news:

[Mr. Shotgun]

Bit-torrent related traffic for movies starring Jet Li has dropped to zero,
while "American Idol" episodes have been climbing at an alarming rate.

Apparently so, according to Brad Pitt

[Anonymous Coward]

Here he is winning GOLD in boxing at the games :) http://www.abc.net.au/sport/content/200603/s160080 8.htm

Er...

[meringuoid]

I've *never* heard anybody say "wow, I should have just run for help rather than arguing back."

I think there might be a fair few people around who would say that, if it weren't for the unfortunate and possibly not coincidental fact that they're too dead to do so.

I think you were wrong [as a parent]

[gr8dude]

I am not a parent, but I believe you were wrong.

First of all, have you considered the case in which your daughter's opponent could actually fight back and cause some real damage?
Have you thought about the fact that your daughter could have accidentally hurt that bad_girl too bad?

You were lucky that things ended as they ended, but frankly, it was just luck; because there is a small probability that the developments could have followed a different scenario.

And I am surprised that as an adult, you advised that... and now you're writing how you managed to get out of this clean with the help of the lawyer and the copies of the complaints you submitted in the past.

While I agree with you in the long run, I still think that children need to be handled with care.
- Have you tried talking to that girl's parents?
- Why haven't you involved your lawyer at the time they simply ignored your letters?

As a kid, I used to be bugged by others who were stronger than me. Yes, that made school taste like hell to me. I simply couldn't imagine how it is possible to harass other people, not realizing that one day you may become a victim yourself. And because of that, I am not "blacklisting" you, as I've been in the shoes of a victim; however, I think that all "evil" must be eliminated by avoiding it, not by fighting back and letting it accumulate somewhere else (and then reach the surface).

I'm Russian and here are three observations

[Vadim Makarov]

1. Please don't get an impression fighting was his only option. It was his choice to brawl, fine. However, our IP law does work in case of violations (I've tried it first-hand a year ago). The Russian software developer could have reported to the police, taken the seller to the court, and get him convicted/fined.

2. Piracy is a more complex problem than you Americans think. Many do not have money to buy licensed software. It's often simply not an option, period. This is why software piracy is so prevalent and accepted here.

3. If you want a personal perspective on video piracy, have a look at my review. When I did buy licensed DVDs, they were of lower quality than pirated ones more often than not.

I'm not advocating anything, just trying to state the state of the facts.

Ballmer

[Conanymous Award]

Steve Ballmer's pugilistic sport of choice would be wrestling. You can use chairs there.

in soviet russia...

[bluehalo]

In Soviet Russia, software bootlegs YOU!

Hmmmm... maybe a good idea

[walter_f]

But as to Ballmer, who might enter the ring as the good guy? ;-)

W.

not a real pirate

[Anonymous Coward]

A real pirate would have kicked any pansy 'software developer's ass. I mean, how can you batten down the hatches and lower the boom if you're not even strong enough to beat up a software developer? The very word, 'software developer', starts with the word 'soft'.

This guy was no pirate.

Um, no...

[Green Salad]

A good sporting match (boxing, basketball, whatever) is a great way to get some aggression out.

Um, I'm afraid you're speaking to the wrong audience. You need to post on men's fitness.com or some such. Your suggestion would require most of us to leave our mother's basement or lose some weight.

A more constructive approach for this crowd is broadband and a first person shooter game. boxing, basketball...sheeesh!

Fortunately, copyright is a civil law matter in RU

[vleo]

And even more fortunate (or unfortunate, since it promotes the use of non OSS products) is the fact that copyrighted materials are sold freely in Russia unlicensed, although there is constant pressure from Microsoft and their ilk to stop it.

I believe the copyright law would not get abused in Russia, like it is in the US and now in EU for one simple reason - Russia is not a producer of content, and EU does not have an option of not using Russian natural gas. And there are no powerful Russian lobbies in favor of DMCA-like laws. And current legislation making foreign interests groups very restricted in Russia gives us hope it would stay this way.

So, I sincerely wish to all my fellow Microsoft wannabees (non OSS based) Russian IT companies to get fought to dust and get lost :-)

Pick me please please

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't pirated windows, but I'd love to have a go at ballmer