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Microsoft Misrepresenting WGA's Functionality?
Legal Ethics writes "According to an article on Groklaw, Microsoft is misrepresenting what the Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) tool is to pressure people into installing it. It comes with no uninstall, it fails to disclose many pieces of information it provides to Microsoft, and it misrepresents itself as a 'critical update' when it does not address any security vulnerability, although it remains to be seen if it can create one. ZDNet has a series of screenshots so that you can see exactly how badly it misrepresents itself. Oh, and it also checks for updates, so Microsoft can presumably execute arbitrary code on any machine with it installed, merely by making that code part of a WGA update."
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We also know that Linux is a European consipracy to attack our computers.
This story was probably planted by GOOGLE, the America-hating empire.
Bill Gates is a true patriot who has spread the American Way of Freedom and Capitalism around the world, and he is clearly far cleverer than this mysterious "P" "J". Friends, don't let the democ-rat lies stop you from getting the facts
And what can us consumers do about it? If we refuse it, we don't get updates. This is punishing us the legit users, while pirates will still be laughing at M$'s latest attempt at stamping them out!
I gave it some thought before I installed it earlier. I knew all it did was report to MS that I had a legal copy of Windows, but the bad part about it was that it seemed I had to install it before I could download any other critical updates.
It's a damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don't situation...
I don't know why this is even an issue these days. People, do yourselves a favor! Stay away from Microsoft!
For most needs, Linux, Mac OS X, Solaris, and BSD are more than suitable. And far cheaper!
If you depend on software that only runs on Windows, petition the developers to create a Linux/Solaris/BSD/Mac OS X edition, or a port to those platforms. Say straight out that you do not want to use Windows, but you do want to use their software. Give them an alternative they can contemplate.
There is no need to become a victim to Microsoft, especially when they put the security of your data at risk. This WGA nonsense is the sort of thing that businesses just shouldn't have to deal with. And thankfully they don't. Between Solaris, Linux, BSD and Mac OS X, there are many alternative, professional operating systems out there for them to use.
I had never thought of that. I just assumed that it's within a company's power to give people updates to ensure they've paid for the software, but come to think of it, the ones who have paid for it shouldn't have to put up with anything they don't want to, and the ones that haven't, well, they're probably not going to.
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
well?... last time some software package was reported doing this it was labelled spyware and the company was prosecuted..
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
do we really need a play-by-play commentary of some jackass installing an update? 17 pages of ads and shit.
the question is when are the anti-malware community going to step up to the plate and provide protection from this software
the fact its made by Microsoft should be irellavent, just analyse the behaviour of the application and judge it on that
communicates unique information at any time to an American based advertising company (msn anybody?) with you the user having no idea of what data and what the implications are of giving this company that data
can your business really risk an application like this on your systems ? are you prepared for the consequences of letting this program run unchallenged inside your companies infrastructure ?
but they are not allowed to misrepresent its nature or what it does to consumers, that is called fraud.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
It's not the fact it's there, it's the fact Microsoft is not properly disclosing everything it does. This has nothing to do w/ the anti piracy isuse.
...and that's all there is to it.
If you want to be able to disable the Genuine Windows Advantage Add-on for IE (accessible via Tools|Manage Add-ons... in IE), you might be surprised (or not) to see that Microsoft will not let you do so. It gives you some sort of stupid "disabled by Administrator" message, even when you're logged on as Administrator (I guess MS thinks it's the administrator for your computer).
To enable the radio button that allows you to disable this worthless add-on, follow these instructions I found:
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
That stupid icon has been bitching at me to install the new WGA Tool for days now. Considering I ALREADY installed it and verified my installation, I figured the reboot wasn't worth it and have not installed it yet. Guess that was a good thing.
Why would I need to re-verify my installation anyway?
"Oh, and it also checks for updates, so Microsoft can presumably execute arbitrary code on any machine with it installed"
It's SkyNet!!! It must be destroyed! Death to Microsoft!
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
You know, it kinda defeats the purpose. First microsoft says it won't with-hold critical updates from pirated versions due to the security risk and the potential lawsuit, and now they release the windows genuine POS. Even though i have legit, i have refused to install it because it is frivolous and just one more piece of windows in the background that phones home. If that prevents me from getting critical updates, then i figure microsoft is saying that i can't do what i want, i.e. get it to run fast w/o background crap, with a product i bought from them, which last i checked, is illegal, since it isn't in any license. It's fine if it's unbundled... but witholding future updates is criminal.
You never realize how much manually made unmanaged "linked" lists suck, till you have src.link.link.link.link...
...why they have to install a piece of software to determine whether your copy of Windows is legit or not. Why not just run a check online when you're doing updates? There's GOTTA be more to this...
Earn a % of cash back from Newegg, Tiger Direct, Walmart.com, and more: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=458505
Since Windows is sending information home, and the user has no control over that messaging with regard to timing or content, it seems to me HIPAA-compliant systems (and other systems requiring security) cannot be built on Windows.
What an opportunity for the open source world!
How to bypass and disable the Genuine Windows Validation Check (from http://www.mydigitallife.info/2006/03/07/bypass-an d-disable-genuine-windows-validation-check/):
Note: The data.dat that are replacing the original data.dat can be blank text file or empty, or you may type whatever you want there.
With this hack (or crack if you want), Windows WGA piracy check will be bypassed and you can now download software from Download Center or apply updates from Microsoft/Windows Updates.
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
You say "their own operating system" as if my computer is their property. Does driving a GM mean that GM would be within their rights to disable my car via OnStar if I failed to prove to them every day that I had not stolen it?
I remember installing this on one of my Windows computers. I wanted to see what it would do because it was a pirated version. It actually went off without a hitch and I could install the software I wanted that required WGA approval.
Does it actually check to make sure the versions are legit now?
Non-admins may get the euphemistic warning of possessing pilferred software,? PostID=370244&SiteID=25/
http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx
Notice the MS solution, delete this, open up all permissions on that (good idea?), read, write, execute, delete for everyone! Or pay-up to get your copy of MS Winders to shut up.
Nothing like family (non-admins) and employees (non-admins) thinking they have purloined software. Isn't an unfounded accusation called, "Libel" http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Libel/?
(My SuSE never accuses me with false accusations.)
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
I've currently got no Mod points, otherwise I'd do it myself.
I know i'll probably be modded down and lose karma, but i find the parent absolutely hilarious!
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
ONLY legitimate users care. Pirates don't have to deal with the bullshit to begin with so they are unaffected.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
I thought the Genuine Validation Toolkit being required for future updates started a long time ago, so I'm not sure why the fuss about that is only kicking up now.
On the other hand the new notification tool is an entirely different matter. This is pre-release software, being pushed as a high-priority update. WRONG. The only place I use Windows is at work, and in an attempt to keep that machine safe I have it notify me of necessary updates. That's a "live operating environment" to me, as I've got to do work on it. So, I'm having an update pushed towards me, that I can't use because the EULA forbids me to. And that's ignoring the fact that I only switch update notifications on so that I'll get security updates, which this clearly isn't.
There's also the question of updates requiring you to agree to an additional EULA. Assuming you hold EULAs to be legitimate, I've signed away enough rights on the one I had to agree with to install Windows in the first place. If future security updates (which are only necessary because as shipped the product is faulty) require me to have the notification tool installed, which requires me to agree to an additional EULA... I think that would be ample justification for a lawsuit.
Oh, and it also checks for updates, so Microsoft can presumably execute arbitrary code on any machine with it installed, merely by making that code part of a WGA update.
If this is true then it is only a matter of time before someone hacks it and uses it to write some malware which only damages people who own a genuine copy of Windows. Surely Microsoft can't be *that* stupid?
Blessed are the 1337, for they shall pwn the earth.
It's a really funny site. Do you enjoy trolling the internet?
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Let's just say, theoretically, that you thought that your copy of windows was legit but it wasn't. Your retailer passed off a high quality fake. You'll run WGA and it'll let you know that your version of windows is pirated. Microsoft gives you a legit version in exchange for ratting out the retailer who sold you the bogus setup.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Hello, Sir. I represent the manufacturer of the car you are driving. I have just replaced the motor in the vehicle with a treadwheel powered by four asthmatic hamsters. I hope you enjoy the improvement to our car.
Have nice day.
Bwwwwwwwwwwwahahahahah!
KFG
Does anyone remember those annoying little "undeletable" index.dat files that Windows keeps for no apparent reason? Ya know, the ones that log each and every website you've ever visited ? Call me a conspiracy theorist, but with the NSA's recent actions, I think Microsoft would see this as the perfect opportunity to start sending those directly to Big Brother on a daily basis.
Just because it can't be explained doesn't mean it isn't true. Science fits into reality... not the other way around.
When I read this, I thought, this has GOT to be a joke:
Oh, and it also checks for updates, so Microsoft can presumably execute arbitrary code on any machine with it installed, merely by making that code part of a WGA update.
Where did WGA come from? Auto Updates. What does Auto Updates do? Downloads executable code and makes it a part of your Windows OS.
"Shocking facts" like those really put Slashdot editors low in my eyes.
It's simple. Just use Autopatcher. They make compilations every month with all of the updates and other tools and tweaks, without having to deal with Microsoft's FUD-ridden update process.
http://www.autopatcher.com/
By the way, Autopatcher will update pirated copies, for better or for worse...
That the state of New York (and any other jusridiction with similar laws) slaps Microsoft with the same sort of anti-spyware case that they did to Sony.
-- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
Microsoft treat all it's customers like they're thieves.
There are countless stories of medium businesses on some sort of SA plan or volume licensing where if the business doesn't pony up on whatever MS has to offer, the sales person gets irate and makes the business owner think they are out of compliance and need to have the BSA investigate how many licenses are in use.
This is taking it to the home level where:
A) People in the know will know how to bypass it
B) Standard consumer doesn't need to worry about it
Microsoft believes (and it has to, like a religion) that it's products are the holy grail and need to be protected by all means necessary.
Microsoft said years ago that this Software Assurance plan is THE THING TO HAVE. We (people in the know) saw through this BS and time has proven us right.
My point of all this is that if you are a willing Microsoft customer, you need to agree to all the EULA's they offer and take it as they feed you because they know what is best for you, not you.
Microsoft will eventually work out a way to get that monthly fee for software services for the home user.
if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
... we can't trust Microsoft for any reason for anything they do.
So is there some freely available update system that does the same thing as Microsoft's Windows update? Preferably one that SysAdmins can distribute at time of login? No good sysadmin would trust Microsoft's updates on their business network anyway. All updates and patches and such need to be cleared before deployment to the masses just in case it breaks something critical to the business. (Imagine if by some human mistake, a Microsoft patch breaks a critical application in your business. The most you'd get from Microsoft would be an apology, but you cannot even expect much more than a few giggles from the other end of the phone. Don't forget that their EULA makes them immune to liability, so anything they actually do is purely voluntary.)
This "genuine advantage" notifier is remarkably easy to disable. Here's a link that documents numerous ways to defeat it. http://labnol.blogspot.com/2006/04/workarounds-to- disable-non-genuine.html
Letting the vendor have a backdoor into your machine is really risky. If you're in a financial institution, is the vendor bonded? If you're a healthcare provider, is the vendor HIPPA compliant? If you're in a law firm, are any of your clients competitors of Microsoft? You have no contractual guarantee that somebody at Microsoft, or elsewhere, isn't using that backdoor in some interesting way.
users of pirated copies of windows cannot even upgrade to SP1 or SP2. So they won't get genuine advantage either.
In other words:
Pirated windows will remain pirated AND insecure.
Legit windows will remain legit AND spied on.
The lesson (for those who still have blind faith in Microsoft): Microsoft doesn't give a SH*T about security or the welfare of the internet. They're only greedy bastards.
I'm laughing, of course, at this:
You must be new to this Interweb thing if you still think 17 pages is impressive
Imagine people finding their windows 'disabled' at start of the workday because their copy was misidentified as 'ingenuine'. Imagine this happening right prior to an important presentation. Imagine a few hundred thousand dollars in deals lost.
...
Imagine people in suits. Imagine briefcases, papers, signatures. Imagine a new class action lawsuit
Read radical news here
I poked around trying to figure out what was wrong.. Didn't see anything. I clicked the "get legal" or whatever it says button at login but nothing ever happened. I eventually remembered that this particular computer had locked up on reboot the week before on a Tuesday and thought perhaps it had something to do with the latest updates from MS. I uninstalled the last few updates I could find. Rebooted, reinstalled them and eventually everything came back to normal and no more complaints about an illegal copy.
I hope this never happens to aunt Tilly. I wonder when XP will really be ready for the desktop.
--- Liberty in our Lifetime
I wish people would quit acting as if anything was unqualifiably better. Life consists of trade-offs but to hear some people talk, life would just be a bowl of cherries if one were to just do this or that... Sheesh... Yes, Linux is better in some ways, but there's that trade-off thing at work there.
You have a small spelling mistake in your last sentence there ... Microsoft sells you a legit version in exchange for ratting out the retailer who sold you the bogus setup.
A Critical Security Vulnerability has been reported for all x86-platform PCs.
Short description: By retailing a piece of software called an "Operating System" to a computer user, and then using social engineering to promote the installation of this software, a so-called "Operating System Vendor" may be able to execute ARBITRARY CODE on a user's computer.
Severity: Severe. The exploit allows an entity to execute arbitrary code on a machine so compromised. Challenge Vector: Remote or local installation of components, either onto a pre-existing Operating System or onto an otherwise bare x86 PC. Mechanism: A package of executable software, called an "Operating System" is distributed by "Operating System Vendors." These Operating Systems have declared purposes which they fufill with wildly-varied results. These operating systems posess code which may not be fully understood by the user, often these Operating Systems enforce systems of privilege and resource maganement which place the Operating System in a position of "arbitrating" between the PC hardware platform and the user. When the Operating System has been so installed, it is capable of executing arbitrary code on the host system.Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
My copy of windows was supplied by my employer.
My personal workstation runs Gentoo.
MSFT can do pretty much ANYTHING THEY WANT because I never pay for their stupidity.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Oh, and it also checks for updates, so Microsoft can presumably execute arbitrary code on any machine with it installed, merely by making that code part of a WGA update.
Excuse me? You already use Windows, right? Where do you think that comes from?
Banu
LOL you're just pissed that you had to do an install for your folks that you didn't expect, and it burnt up a couple hours. The software did it's job in your case, and they got their money.
I have no problem with a program that checks my install and goes away, since my copies are legit. If I give my folks a machine with an illegal copy, and they get freaked out when the machine up and tells them that is the case, then I deserve it and just do the install.
One that repeatedly phones home constantly without permission is wrong, tho.
Collects info about user? Collecting info about my hardware and my installation without my consent is close enough. Check.
Change settings on my computer? You cannot remove it without some hack. Check.
Doing all this without "appropriately obtaining your consent"? Hell yes check.
WGA is spyware by Microsoft's own definition.
One thing I will credit Microsoft for, is I do not know ANYONE legitimate or not, where windows stopped running because of verification failure.
In 2 personal cases, other products I paid a lot of good money for stopped. First Norton anti virus, after a hard drive failure would not validate and refused to run on the new hard drive.
And second the most evil spy ware in the universe - steam - tells me I have a banned CD key - I'm sitting here looking at a CD, a box, a manual, and a receipt for $50 and I have never given a copy of anything to anybody - and they call me a crook and ban me - I swear if I ever get the opportunity I will do physical harm to someone who is responsible for steam. Then their joke of tech support says they cant offer any help since i have a banned key. Don't cross my path in a dark alley, i'll ban your head from your shoulders, thiefs.
slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
This is such an obviously sarcastic piece that I was asounded to not only see an Insightful rating, but to find so many responses taking it seriously. Whare have all the slashdot crowd gone? Surely not to Digg; that site is for clueless newbies who mod up any rumor no matter how ludicrous and who dish up stories the rest of us have heard of years ago.
Is there some new humor site which has drawn off the clueful, such as they are, or used to be?
Where have all the slashdot crowd gone?
Infuriate left and right
I know that the printer friendly versions are usually nicer... but seriously... seventeen pages?
Microsoft has already stated that they will give legit copies to people who help shut down retailers who are handing out bogus copies.
It's in their best interests. One free copy of windows is a decent incentive to shut down hundreds or thousands of pirates copies.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
As a huge proponent against piracy, I installed the Genuine Advantage - thinking to myself that I'll proudly show I'm a legitimate customer. However, I find this recent disclosure most disturbing - is it not the responsibility of industry icons such as Microsoft to show that preventing piracy and so forth can be done legally and honestly? Where is the professionalism and courtesy that such a world-renowned company should be showing its customers?
I just bypass it. How to bypass WGA
... then this WGA will remind users that SP1 will no longer be supported with updates in October 2005. I saw this on my test machines at work. Quite annoying! Notifications can be disabled though.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
How to bypass and disable the Genuine Windows Validation Check (from ...
I think you can narrow down those 13 steps to 3:
$ cd %ALLUSERSPROFILE%\Application Data\Windows Genuine Advantage\data
$ echo "" > data.dat
$ attrib +h -r data.dat
clientTime, cookie, Ping, PingResult, pingLevel, Cookie, EncryptedData, Expiration, MonitoredServicesResponse, agI0, CustomInfo, DatabaseInfo, ConfigFileExpirationModuloInMinutes, ConfigFileNextExpirationTime, ConfigFileVersion, ConfigFileLastModifiedTime, ConfigFileEnvironmentName, ConfigFileProjectName, ConfigFilePath, RequestContentType, IsHttps, ServicesMachine, ServicesName, ServicesTime, SuccessFlag, ReportingEvent, PrivateData, UserAccountName, ComputerDnsName, ExtendedData, DeviceID, OSLocaleID, OSVersion, BiosRevision, ComputerModel, ComputerBrand, MiscData, ReplacementStrings, DetailedVersion, ServicePackMinor, ServicePackMajor, Revision, Build, Minor, Major, BasicData, AppName, Win32HResult, SourceID, EventID, NamespaceID, EventInstanceID, TimeAtTarget, SequenceNumber, TargetID, ComputerTargetIdentifier, Sid, UpdateRevisionIdentifier, RevisionNumber, UpdateID, ProcessorArchitecture
they say no "personal data" is sent but your logon name and Machine name would probably count as personal as it gets, note it also looks at your cookies status
but there's that trade-off thing at work there.
;-)
Real sorry games means so much.
Otherwise, you're there, right? I understand.
I know Microsoft (MS) and others software companies hate piracy. I was wondering if MS is going to use DMCA as their advantage to take down piraters who use illegal copies of Windows? WGA phones home with IP addresses and who knows what else. Obviously, Internet is almost a required thing these days.
I have heard and seen software products (e.g., VisualRoute -- an Internet program -- can't block it or the program is useless) phone home, and even companies sending DMCA letters to those Internet users. They showed all kind of information like IP addresses, computer name, etc. Even shut down the Internet connections for abuse (DMCA). It's quite scary!
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Quake 4 runs natively on Linux.
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Try http://www.autopatcher.com/. It seems to have been created to get around this very problem (WGA). I've used the Win2000 patch and it works great.
Isn't it their software? you bought the license for it, but you don't own Windows. Any software company has the right to do anything to their software, You also have the right not to use their software. If you don't like it uninstall Windows...
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
As I've already posted (http://blogs.itoperations.com.au/chris/general/mi crosofts-fueling-of-the-fud/), this is only part of a bigger issue. Microsoft have a history of trying out new technologies designed to restrict end users' activities. The XBox, Office's activation requirements and so on.
We've already had a number of clients who all paid for Windows XP Pro licences coming to us to fix WGA's insistance that their copy isn't genuine. This is another part of the problem - some of our clients don't see why they should pay us to fix the problem, whilst others don't see the implications this sort of "update" has for their privacy.
I reinstalled XP recently and my Key decided to "run out of activations" so i had to call up MS. I was furious...
I contemplated installing the various coporate versions and hacked Pro versions that i have on back up just out of spite.
But instead i called up MS went through their automated crap which is a nightmare in stupidity. After it finished it told me "I can not activate my key and to hold on to for an operator"
YAY.
So i get to the operator... I give her the code, she gives me a new key... all is solved...
Not so fast...
I go to install updates... and WGA must be installed first...
OK lets do it...
ERROR.. UNKNOWN ERROR.
What?! What the fuck?
I call MS tech support...
The guy is completely useless and puts me through to a smarter tech...
As i'm waiting for brainiac to pick up, i discover that by default windows XP installs IE with "Custom" security settings which does not allow WGA to install.
So lets recap. WGA wont install automatically on a default XP install because IE is set to custom security rather than "Medium"
Oh the stupid headache...
So i figure it out while waiting and then the guy picks up cause i'm a nice guy i waited to tell him what the problem was...
I tell him and i hang up.
WGA is not only a pain in the ass for legal users... the activation itself in windows is down right stupid. I have to call MS everytime i want to reinstall now.
Which is what? every month?
I made an image of the boot drive install instead. No thanks MS.
Its just too much. I dont care about MS's bottom line, i care about the dollars i spent and its a headache. Too much is too much and that too much was WGA itself.
I have the coporate and hacked WGA versions, I know how to reg hack the WGA dll out and kill access to it and bypass the windows update...
BUT I also OWN my windows... I tried to do the right thing and in the end, yeah it works but it was a big fuckign headache that i'm not willing to deal with any more. Things are only going to get worse as DRM and every other attempt made at taking control of your computer is made by these companies.
I like for it to be known that its just as easy to run the hacked versions with less of a headache... I was on the verge of doing it out of spite...
I only wanted to know why my Key wasnt working and why WGA was not allowing me to update cause i was angry... Thats the only reason i am running my legit copy of XP now.
I'd gladly explore other options next time if it means saving my time and my sanity.
After installing Office 2007 beta, I couldn't get it to activate. I did some tracing with Ethereal and found that an https connection was made to Microsoft servers and a blob of data sent. Microsoft servers don't respond and 60 seconds later the connection is closed. After installing WGA, the Office 2007 activation worked fine.
In case anyone is curious, these are the benefits Microsoft claims if you use WGA: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=39157
What is really funny is that if you click Validate Now on that page and you are using Firefox, it wants to install a plugin for Firefox. Yes, Microsoft has written a plugin for Firefox!
Ed Foster blogged about the EULA a while back. Strange that the software needs a unique EULA at all.
What I can't figure out is why MS needs to monitor the legitimacy of your copy of Windows XP in real time. Is a valid copy suddenly going to become illegitimate for some obscure reason?
I have a Compaq laptop that is not functional due to old age; I am curious as to whether or not I can reuse the Windows XP license that came with that machine on another. Any ideas?
...detect and remove it?
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
grass is green, sky is blue, and gravity still not repealed...
-------
1. Enjoy your job
2. Make lots of money
3. Work within the law
Choose any two.
These instructions *do* allow the user to click the 'Disbable' radio button. However, once you've done so, you can no longer download updates from Windows Update.
TPJ - Founder, The Amazon Basin
This little trick doesn't work for me anymore.. It did up until the latest 'update' though. IIRC 64bit XP Pro doesn't have WGA.. maybe it's time I switched to that. I'd go Mac but I like doing stuff other than video and picture editing and putting Mr. Jobs' grandkids through Harvard.
I installed this shit because it came with the automatic updates. I should have been more careful, my dad is always telling my I'm too cynical, I'm obviously not cynical enough.
And WoW actually runs with better performance in Linux than Windows.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Actually, there's a linux version of Quake4 (which I heard runs faster than the one under windows).
I noticed that everytime wgatray.exe is run, it's making a quick call out to MS to check for updates. It's not alot of bandwidth, but I imagine it's a special server at MS that is doing the checking.
Now, if, for example, someone were to write a simple program that called wgatray.exe in an infinite loop and had a few hundred thousand people running it, then Microsoft would wind up on the end of a DoS attack. What would happen if the wga server was down? Would Windows stop working?
(When I say simple, I mean simple, as in a 2 line batch file, didn't Microsoft think this through?)
tray.bat
-----------
wgatray.exe
tray.bat
To get rid of this annoying update: Search and delete wgatray.exe Kill wgatray.exe It is now completely gone; Of course, just by looking in the task manager, you should've been able to fix it yourself. Shortly after this, in order to solve the licensing issue, I deleted XP and made my x86 box a single-boot.
I find your remarks a little odd considering:
If those are actually representative of your needs as a Windows user than you wouldn't have a problem moving over to Linux. If they aren't representative of your needs then get better examples and ask yourself why you chose those examples in the first place.
Time makes more converts than reason
MS is safe from prosecution from this flavor of offense. Think of Sony. They're both in that echelon of companies that's doesn't get touched. Small token fines are agreeable (antitrust is such an academic sounding offense anyways). Anything sounding like egregious wrong doing then campaign favors get promptly called in. The really bad part is that everyone knows. Autopatcher(neowin.net) or Ubuntu are a few recourses.
"If you don't have eyes you shouldn't have wings" -- Carl Pilkington
Just because some piece of software wants to do something doesn't mean you have let it.
Why not just block it with a firewall? According ZonaAlarm the IP that WGA connects to is (or maybe *was*) 64.4.52.189
From WikiPedia:
Windows Genuine Advantage Notifications and Firewalls
Some personal firewalls, though not the basic one in Windows, may alert on the method by which wgatray.exe is started, in the case of Outpost firewall, it is identified as a "hidden process". The wgatray.exe process itself can be firewall blocked, without apparent problems. Removing the reference to WGALOGON.DLL using HijackThis appears to effectively de-install this update, to the point where it will be offered again if it has not been marked "do not show".
And I'm sure there are a dozen other ways to avoid the WGA.
Actually, yes.
Got this little gem from my companie's Microsoft rep. There are a variety of "leasing" options available, where a) your volume license expires after so long, or b) you get MS product ala carte (i.e. SQL server for $X/mo, and can scale up as needed - targeted at hosting providers ).
This will allow them to deactivate these machines remotely, even if the user plays games with the clock. The rep also made it sound like there were plans to eventually add support for other Microsoft apps (Office, SQL Server, etc.) as well.
Oh, and it also checks for updates, so Microsoft can presumably execute arbitrary code on any machine with it installed, merely by making that code part of a WGA update.
I fail to see how this is something special. Any other update could do this. Even the updates I do for my Adobe Acrobat. Any software I run on my computer could do that. This isn't just limited to Windows, but any OS.
Next, once you're comfortable with configuring a live-CD, back up your data and do a dual-boot install. Use linux as much as you can stand it, then switch back to Winderz for the few must-have apps. If you hate it, dump linux and you'll have a fresh Windows install that may run well for a few months. ;-)
Once you convert to OSS versions of most of your apps, and are comfortable with linux being your primary environment, back up your data then install a 100% linux install. Then, for those few clingy win32 apps, try using Wine (a mostly bitter pill, but it does some stuff well) to run the apps. Failing that, try Qemu. If *that* fails, try VMWare or Win4Lin.
Eventually, a few months down the road (or a couple of years, even), you may decide that the stability and reliability of Linux outweighs the win32 baggage and you either find linux equivalents you really like or you "settle" for something not 100% what you'd prefer.
I began the above transition about 7 years ago (except live-CDs weren't around). Took about 2 years. Games kept me dual-booting for about a year... until a wife and kids took more of my time and I decided that silly free games (nethack and xmame) were enough for the occasional video game fix. Then Quicken and Turbo Tax kept me using VMWare for about a year. I replaced Quicken with GnuCash for a year or so, then I ditched it for a simple spreadsheet checkbook balance sheet. By that time, I was beyond the simple tax returns, and I decided that $200 yearly H&R Block trip was less painfull than the $50 TurboTax and several hours of punching in stuff. (Also, the whole anti-piracy FUBAR for Turbo Tax in the late 90s turned me off Intuit.)
So I've been 100% Winderz free for 5 years, and I'll never go back. I don't put up with DRM or anti-piracy shit any more. If I doesn't run on Linux (now, FreeBSD/amd64), I find something else to use.
Freedom... indeed!
Method of processing duck feet
Yes. You trade off some functionality and eye candy for freedom. Any takers?
evil is as evil does
Sounds great. I'm gonna switch right now. Just one quick question, how do I get AutoCad to run?
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
Better yet, it runs on straight Wine with a few patches.
Get REAL people!
You also lose quite a bit of ease of use, in my hellish experience. It's got a place, but unfortunately it's not on my desktop machine. I'm still not paying Microsoft, which has to work in my Karma's favor.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
However, that was back in ~1998, so a lot has changed since then.
Wrong. It still isn't despite the masturbation fantasies of the Linux fanboys. It's not even close.
Funny, 25 years ago, all the geeks were bitching about IBM's monopoly and clamoring to get on board with a young, nimble startup called Microsoft.
Enough feeding trolls. I'm going to bed.
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
Of the two, I'd go with Ubunutu. It's been better on desktops and laptops for me, especially with detecting hardware. I like SuSE (I use SLES9 on our servers) but I think Ubuntu is the better desktop. They'll both have Evolution available.
n ux/Linux.Wireless.drivers.802.11ag.html
For multimedia, I use mplayer + mencoder. There are plugins for the Gnome desktop/totem/whatever for generating previews. Mplayer has a GUI front end as well as the command line one, and will play DVDs etc happily, and can use native Windows codecs.
K3B is probably the nicest Linux burner app, although I think Nero has a Linux version too now. Be worth checking that out (it's free for Windows licensed users).
The NIC issue is a tricky one... some are supported, some aren't. Google and the Ubuntu wiki are your friends here. Eg, a page from 6 months ago: http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Li
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Speaking as someone who pays the sometimes rather high prices required to own FULLY legal copies of Microsoft products (i.e.: NOT resold volume edition cds with illegally provided activation keys, etc.), I was extremely angry to learn Microsoft lied to me about the nature of a product REQUIRED to access advanced support services I am legally entitled to as a customer. If I had know it was spyware (which it is, since there is no documentation of its real behavior), especially unremovable spyware, I would never have installed it. Too late now. If this country had a real justice system, Windows users could file a class action lawsuit in response and win. But since we can't, I'll just remember this the next time Microsoft asks me to install anything and refuse. Burn in hell, you lying monopolistic privacy violating assholes.
I just accessed Windows Update and installed the latest update for Windows Genuine Advantage. Yes, I know it's spyware, evil, and doing nothing good for my system. Yes, I have a completely legal Windows XP system. However, you have to install WGA before the windows update site will give you the latest security updates and you cannot use Win XP without those. So...Microsoft has unlimited leverage with this, at least until someone sues them and wins. Fortunately, I have another partition without Windows formatted with a file system that Windows cannot read so the bulk of the system is safe from Microsoft. What a sad state of affairs, though, that the biggest software company in the world does business like this. Why would anyone ever voluntarily choose anything Microsoft? You would have to have your head examined for holes.
http://www.google.com/search?safe=off&q=DnsApi.dll +bypass+hosts
If the MD5 in the zip matches the one the AC mentions 7f93c659ad5f57f3e9434c16477dc189, I think it's safe to use.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
* Allows users to disable the 'phone home'/background update features
No problem in Ubuntu.
* Novell Evolution
Ubuntu comes with Evolution by default. I prefer thunderbird.
* Multimedia features that don't require root login:
o Integrated codecs or easy access to codecs to support AVI, Quicktime, Realplayer, DiVX, XViD
Easyubuntu will install all the win32 codecs for you. This machine plays just about everything including quicktime and realmedia. mplayer even handles most streams and can save them to file..
o A relatively muss-free GUI-based DVD decrypter application available for it (similar to CloneAD) and a decent re-encoder application (similar to DVD Shrink)
k9copy possibly qualifies, it will decrypt, recompress, and save to ISO or another disk. acidrip will let you easily rip most DVD's to divx or any other format you have a codec for.
o A decent GUI-based burner application (similar to Nero)
There's a number of different programs but I'm not too familiar with them, most people seem to like k3b. I just use the nautilus inbuilt features; when you insert a blank CD in ubuntu it asks if you want to burn music or data and gives you a simple drag-and-drop window. For ISO's just right-click and pick burn-to-CD from the menu.
o A decent GUI-based DVD viewer application
Yes. Not sure which player it was, but at least one of them handles all of the menus and language choices and subtitles. I think it was totem. Of course as soon as you install libdvdcss2 every media player can suddenly play DVD's to some extent, and all are region-free.
* Out-of-the-box support for most 802.11=g NICs
Not familiar with that. Ubuntu has out-of-the box supported far more hardware than XP ever did. OTOH with Windows you usually only need to download a driver. With ubuntu if it's not working out of the box it's probably never going to work, except possibly under ndiswrapper which is a half-assed and unstable solution.
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
Goals. What I love doing is updating windows after a clean install. I keep a stack of drives by my comp and about once a day or so I reinstall windows on one of them and get every update. Sometimes if I feel evil I'll do it twice. What can they do about it? Not a damn thing. There is nothing in the EULA that says I can only install windows once on one drive and never reinstall. I just haven't found the right drive yet and yes I do make sure that only that drive has that windows license on it. I wonder what would happen if more people tried my little hobby, what would microsoft try to do to stop it and would that stand up in court.
[...] while pirates will still be laughing at M$'s latest attempt at stamping them out!
The real issue is that this is not an attempt to stop piracy, but something else: if they wanted to stop piracy, they would lock down computers, not show popups. I recently blogged about this.
M$ actually modified Windows 3.1 (as an update) so suddenly it would not run with DR-DOS. They got sued and (eventually) lost (read: a minor slap on the wrist for them). BUT the damage had been done.
WGA is misrepresented in my Windows install. *insert pirate smiley*
Then MS can misrepresent it all they want.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Unplug all the plugs.
Open the window (the one in the wall, not on the screen)
Pick up the computer.
Throw through the window.
Mac uninstalled.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Having used both K3B and Nero, I am firmly of the opinion that K3B is better.
Pirate Party UK
I think you forgot the "crack the WGA server's SSL certificate" step, unless Microsoft forgot to use one in the first place.
You don't actually have to disable WFP, when the dialog pops up informing you files have changed and asking you to restore them just hit cancel. Windows won't bother you about it again, much safer.
OK. Some ease of use too. All in exchange for freedom. Any takers?
evil is as evil does
Funny how the MS shills today are saying the same things the IBM shills were saying back then. I guess history repeats itself. Good to see lots of corporate shills still around though. God knows those corporations need defending from the unwashed linux users who are always mastubrating.
evil is as evil does
For many years now, it has been more convenient and hassle-free to run cracked versions of games, even if you did buy the original (I know I downloaded quite a few no-CD cracks for games I had bought in the store).
Looks like windos will be next in line for that attitude.
Oh yeah - last I checked, the whole multi-million dollar copyprotection software did exactly zilch for the level of illegal copying in the games world...
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
It's not sarcastic, it's satire.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
I fail to see why legit users of xp should care.. pirates.. yea, sucks for you. But hey, you shouldn't have stolen xp in the first place. oh well, it bit you in the ass.
Because most Slashdot readers use non-legit copies of Windows I'd guess, or their work's volumne license copies.
I can't think of any other reason the comments are so violently against a multi-billion dollar company who being watched like eagles by the justice department reporting if the copy of windows being run is legitimate.
Nothing costs nothing
Wine is not supposed to be "a real Windows system". It is supposed to emulate the Windows API on top of X11 and Unix. That said, World of Warcraft runs on Wine. Also, another post pointed out the fallacy of your Quake 4 claim. So congrats, you have some gigantic holes in your logic. Well done.
The M$ WGA program reminds me to the electronic wars that took place on the US highways in the 80s between the "Guardians of the Law" and the average Joe Six-Pack driver. First there was the Police Radar to detect speeders. Then, the Radar Detector. Next the Police detector to notifiy the police that a car had a Radar Detector on board. Finally the Radar Jammer. M$'s paranoia is unlimited. They are a company that just does not get it. They do not just produce a product to be used, but want to own the individual and his equipment that use it. I disable and hide the "Nag" updates on all my customer's computers and warn them about installing it. If they do, I tell them they are on their own. I also monitor and use all the latest disabling patches that the hackers develop to counter act this travesty of individual freedom. I am a dye in the wool Apple Mac user, however work on Windows machines for a living. If it was not for Windows, I would be out of business!
Nero is actually available for Linux. (replace "deu" in the link for "en" for the english page that doesn't display at all for me.
Having used both K3B and Nero, I am firmly of the opinion that K3B is better.
I must completely agree, having been a big Nero fan in my Windows days I was excited when I heard that Nero was finally available on Linux. I was surprised how much better K3b is myself.
Interesting.. my WINE install passes WGA (I've only tested it by downloading the exe version of WGA using Linux-native Firefox, running it under WINE then copy & pasting the code given to the site), might possibly be because I used the ies4linux script to install IE, because I run WINE under it's own user, or maybe Microsoft's documentation is out of date, but either way it seems to validate and let me download updates, software etc through MS's site.
Linux Wireless Hardware in the UK
I have several, legal licenses to XP. Yet, I *always* use a borrowed, corporate serial number. Why? No activation. Why do I care? Aside from the principals involved, my XPs always run in virtual environments -- VirtualPC, VMWare Workstation, and of late Parallels Workstation. I've not tried Bochs, etc.
I'm not trying to debate the licensing (I know I'm supposed to use my own numbers; I don't care, though) or the multiple machine issues (I've got all the licenses I need legally; convenience is the issue). Instead I bring questions:
How does activation work in a virtual environment on multiple, physical machines? Sure, the virtual machine "footprint" is going to change between using VMWare, VPC, and Parallels. But what bearing does the host machine have on it? If I take my legally activated product (the non-corporate version) disk image from physical machine to physical machine, is there a tie to the real, physiscal hardware? As far as I know, processor ID, MAC address, and so on are all virtualized, but is there something else in the activation checksum that these commercial VM solutions tie to the physical hardware?
I don't know enough about the license (who really does?); to me the "machine" is the disk image, so I have no moral qualms about moving it from physical machine to physical machine as long as they're not used at the same time (etc. etc.).
Oh, so why don't I try it? I just don't want to "burn up" any of my serial numbers. Meaning, invalidate them because now I look like I've pirated the number because I'm installing onto too many machine. VMWare for Windows and Linux, VPC for Mac and Windows, Parellels for Mac/Linux/Windows... I'm a big time pirate trying to install a single serial on *seven* computers, ya know?
--Jim (me)
Hang on - given the amount of identifiable information sent out and that MS has a process capable of auto-updating and arbitrarily executing code on your system do you really want to try to use their tool to annoy them?
/s c:\"
In MS:
"Bill, the WGA upload server has just gone redline. What do we do?"
Cue the sound of breathing over a Vader mask
"Change the script to rd
Tinfoil hat now OFF.
I'm so glad I checked the writeup on that update before installing. I believe my key should validate, but am not happy about a process whose sole purpose is to consume clock and memory, that auto-respawns and that has no documented uninstall process. For shame, MS.
Curiously this is not an unknown problem. MS is aware of it at any rate - machines that for whatever reason CANNOT successfully install WGA and therefore are screwed out of all subsequent updates. Did I mention these are fresh installs? These are machines that were scratch rebuilt mere weeks ago and are completely clean of spyware, virii and have relatively few applications installed? Did I mention that MS has ZERO response to this? No answer at all whatsoever. I have asked if there is a way to download and install WGA on its own.
I suspect they are silent on that point because there's a flaw in WGA which would verfiy any machine you managed to intall it on.
This can seem unlikely, since we use to think about communism as being completely against capitalists, but the point is that such opposition happens only in theory. In practice three things happen: first, BIG capitalists really love monopolies, so they're ultimately against the free market; second, communists and other kinds of dictatorial establishments have realized over the last decades that some kind of profit-motivated expert management of the economic activity is needed, otherwise the economy colapses; third, making a guerrilla and sustaining a revolution requires tons of money.
So, BIG capitalists and dictators cut a deal: the capitalist fund the guerrilla while it's not in power, and, in exchange, once the guerrilla gets to power the dictatorial government grants these corporations exclusive privileges and monopolies, what also provides the country with the required expert economic management. It's a win-win situation, except for the people, of course.
The linked site provide tons of documented evidence.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
What would they give for shutting down China? The pirated Windows there seem to be far more common than legitimate copies, at least on my last visit.
You trade off some ... eye candy
... assuming your vid card supports it (see Vista for details).
Try XGL out, you can actually trade UP in eye candy by moving to Linux
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
Or the" patch WGA to use an SSL certificate of your choice" step
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
You've never worked in the real world have you?
Trade some "functionality"? Are you kidding me?
Windows is the *standard* because the applications that businesses *require* to you know, stay in business, exist only for Windows.
I hate MS as much as the next guy, but get a clue, there's a *reason* Windows is everywhere.
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
I had a problem with this on one of my computers. But I found an actual fix for it. I first wiped the computer completely out, then overwrote the hard drive. I then sold it to a neighbor as a blank machine. I went down to the electronics store and bought a Mac Mini. I already had my documents and everything backed up, so I began - as a new mac user - to figure out how to get all of my old videos, music, and other items to work properly on the Mac. This was NOT an easy task, by any means, but it was worth it. After performing the above actions, I noticed that I no longer received warning after warning that I might be running a bootleg copy of Windows. It was a miracle! Bill Gates no longer has a place in my home or my heart after this horrible betrayal. Long live alternative operating systems.
I can narrow those 3 steps down to 1:
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Exactly.
You choose whatever tool will do or allow you to do the task at hand most effictively. Whether that is windows, linux, HPUX, a turnkey internet appliance, fnords. Not choosing a tool for no other *real* reason save politico bullshit is beyond ridiculous.
--- Do you believe in the day?
And better yet, you only need to buy a new computer to get any decent performance. First we see Linux users whining about ATI/nVidia drivers not being fully open source, and buggy and it's all ATI's fault. Next we see the same persons recommend Linux as gaming rig, since it can run emulated games on slow drivers. Ouh the joy. Linux is no gaming platform, just live with it. What next, a Macintosh user coming here to claim they have superior gaming support?
The modern linux desktop does not require this anymore, not for a great many years.
Really? Because I still couldn't get away from it running Mandriva 2005.
Or, more likely, you'll get help.
No, most likely you'll get no answers. Unless your question is simple and obvious. But if its a tougher, one, well, you're on your own.
The modern linux desktop does not require this anymore, not for a great many years.
This thankfully was true. It was fun being able to recompile the kernel at first, to optimize it. But it quickly grew tiresome.
Luckily for them, it's vastly easier than the nightmare scenario you describe, and they would likely have on average as easy or as hard of a time as on Windows.
I'm a software engineer, and I moved back to Windows at home because I was tired of reading pages and pages on getting things to work the way I wanted. I moved back to Windows because I started come across things which should be simple (for example, getting the newest KMail or Kopete.. you know the one you have to get because MSN shut them out again). Or trying to get my usb printer working. Or figuring out why KDE seemed to get buggier by the day.
I like Linux, but when I just want to use my computer and not fight with it, it seems Windows is the better choice.
*MS stands for Mark Shuttleworth; if there is a God, this MS will pwn that other one.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Eh ... nothing runs straight with wine. The more you have, the less straight you run. Unless it's a bottle of Buckie, in which case you don't run when the rozzers appear, you just shout abuse at them and all within the nearest square mile.
You trade off some functionality and eye candy for freedom.
I usually use Windows. This does not make me any more or less free to get Linux or Windows source code than if I used Linux.
Question: When you boot up the computer and don't have a connection going, WGA Validation fails, I guess? And pesters you? That'd be awesome, 'cause they could "upgrade" WGA to automatically redirect you to a place where you might be able to rent WiFi for $9.95 a day. Like they do in hotels, and I think Starbuck's.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
I feel vindicated and violated all at the same time, now. Thank you, o Lords of Redmond! Oh, and for the record: THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME MICROSOFT HAS TRIED THAT "PHONE HOME" JAZZ! This time, however, they seem to have been caught red-handed.
Dude, they were downsized. Check the headlines from a couple years ago.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
You seem to misunderstand something. Using WINE doesn't involve any emulation.
That's because a lot of our wealth is tied up in the speculative valuation of company stocks. People are betting on who will be the next Microsoft. If something comes around and returns us to a competitive market, the speculative bubble pops and there's somewhat of an avalanche effect through the market.
I used to despise Microsoft. But then, after several years writing drivers for various OS'es, I came to the conclusion that Microsoft tries hard to be everything , for everybody. For instance, if you were to build yourself a VGA adaptor, and based it roughly on a known video chipset, Windows probably has a driver for it.
MS has been trying to build ease of use and compatibility into Windows since the step up from 3..12. Granted, plug'n'play used to be much more akin to plug'n'pray, but it has improved remarkably since 4.1.2222 for 98, and SP5 for NT4. If nothing else, MS deserves credit for the efforts they have made to create a standard platform.
I have a whole new set of issues nowadays with MS. The trading off security versus ease of use was acceptable up until the late 1990s, when the web usage became much more widespread. Back in the "old days" you actually had to known something to compromise system security. Now, with the like of Montreal's Mafiaboy using freely available scripts, anyone smart enough to figure out how a QWERTY board and mouse works, can cause major havoc with web services.
Besides, who needs to worry about hackers now? Google Desktop is much more insidious, and Microsoft seems to not only license Windows, but dictates how it works, and creates a sense that if you don't have a licenced copy of Windows, you've somehow been duped because you're a few McNuggets short of a happy meal...
BTW, I don't use Windows myself, and have never encountered WGA in my time behind a keyboard. I'm too much a fan of IRIX, and I don't think they make a version for MIPS chips. And I apologize for taking up your boss' time to read my tangent.
Personally, I don't have any problem at all letting microsoft install this little bugger in my PC. My girlfriend's little sister has a computer that was built for her by an unscrupulous individual who installed a pirated copy of Windows XP. Being the nearest geek, I now maintain the system. I install all M$ updates. I even have auto update set to automatically install everything, including WGA. I have taken no steps to prevent it "phoning home" and I even took the survey that it asks you to take (saying that I had no intention to license windows, which I wonder if they actually read...). The only interaction that I had with it beyond that was to tell it to stop popping up, which it has.
I trust microsoft completely.
Why? I allow them to provide me with an operating system that I am certain will fail regularly itself, without outside interference. I allow them to provide me with an operating system that will allow others to exploit my internet surfing. I allow them to provide me with an operating system that will allow others to exploit my computer and my files without any action on my part, or theirs. If they want to install a little something extra, how does it compare to what I already allow? It doesn't.
Obviously, this is only my girlfriend's sister's computer. I wouldn't put a microsoft product on my computer if you paid me, unless you were paying me enough to buy another computer...
JP
-- JP
The point of my argument is that Linux cannot compete with Windows in the games arena, and I stand behind that. Yes, Quake 4 may actually have a Linux port. If you could say that about 90% of the gameson the market, then true gamers would still be dissapointed at missing out on the other 10%, but the truth is that you probably can only say that about five or ten percent of the games on the market.
So, let me get this right about wine. What you're saying is, "it's not supposed to be as good, so overlook it if it falls short of the real thing, but it's just as good and how dare you imply that it's not as good as the real thing"? Sounds like you've got some choice logic yourself. If Wine is to be used to justify the argument that Linux can do everything Windows can, then it's perfectly fair to point out that Wine cannot, in fact, do everything Windows can.
I'm sure that, with a little bit of effort, and research, you can figure out a way to make quite a bit of software work, and in many cases it may run as well as it would if run natively on Windows. So, if you happen to have well supported hardware (ie, not an ATI card), and if you're willing to spend time researching how to do something that Windows users can get accomplish using a simple wizard, then yes, Linux can technically run almost anything Windows can run.
Don't get me wrong. Linux has it's place. It is great as an OS for servers of all types, or for machines where the user needs pure performance and is using certain pieces of software like Maya, or HPC applications, but if Gateway or Dell were to remove Windows from every system they sold, and replace them with copies of Linux, they would have a __lot__ of unhappy customers. That's my point. Linux has it's place, but there are some areas where Linux needs a great deal of improvement before it could ever compete with Windows (assuming "compete" means "has a chance of getting a more customers/users than").
Actually yes, kind of. Well, no "kind of" about it, but I'm not so sure if it's in a way that WGA could tell about.
If the corporate volume licensing is such that employees can install stuff on their own machine then there's a very definite reason why a vaid copy could become invalid. Such licenses usually only cover you as long as you remain an employee of the organisation. No job, no license. But, also, no physical way of MS being able to know this unless they also tap into your company's HR database. And even I'm not so cynical as to give that idea much credence.
Tiggs
"120 chars should be enough for everyone..."
Slashdot now crashes my browser of choice (opera 9 beta 2) since the CSS change. I know others who find it slowing firefox to a crawl. I'm sure there's a discussion about it *somewhere*...
Oh look, Zonk has yet again posted a piece whose "summary" completely fails to say anything about what its central element actually is. It must be a weekday.
I use Linux for the vast bulk of my needs, but once in a while I need to run something on Windows - a game, a tax prep package, whatever.
Actually, they are not my needs. I was replying to the comment implying that Linux is giving Microsoft serious competetion in the mainstream Desktop OS market. As for the examples, yes, I did name one app that can actually be installed on Linux, by a newbie, as easily as it could on windows, and a few others that could, including one that Disney pumped a great deal of cash into paying developers to make it work. Granted, you can make quite a bit work on Linux, but you have to admit, Linux is a great deal more work than Windows. Even if you take into account that Windows isn't always stable, and you have to reboot or uninstall and reinstall software to make it work, how many messageboards are there out there with people saying "why won't this work on my system?"
As for my actual needs, they are not mainstream. My needs are:
Linux has it's place, but, expecting it do everything Windows does is often a great deal of work, with excentricities (like features missing from a gnu app), hassles (work-arounds needed to make a specific app work), and the occasional beating-one's-head-against-a-wall session (having ta much needed app give a crazy error message, and having to spend hours digging through message board posts looking for a solution).
To use CS terminology, Linux as a mainstream desktop solution is a kludge. It can be done, but simply using Windows is sometimes a far more elegant solution.
While I disagree with the flippancy (and impracticality) of the post that you refer to, this is not the freedom that they are talking about.
TFA points out that nowhere is there anything even close to "informed consent" when it comes to choosing whether or not WGA is installed. What you gain is not the freedom to see, modify, redistribute etc the source code. What you gain is the freedom to decide what gets installed on your computer, and when. That is something that you don't get with Windows.
And no, I'm not arguing either for or against. Sometimes the tradeoff is appropriate and sometimes it isn't. For the typical slashdotter's personal computer, it probably isn't.
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That you can keep track of and control exactly what's happening with your computer is a very good argument, but it's traditionally more of an open source argument than a free software argument. It might be what was meant, but I doubt it.
That's subjective. Coming from the other direction (a Linux user that has to interact with Windows) there are a lot of things that I cannot do on Windows without serious work. There are plenty of times when I have to use Windows that I think, "Damn this is easy as hell on Linux but I have no idea how to do it on Windows". Take for example shell scripting. It sucks on Windows. Even small ~50 line scripts turn into 150 lines when I try to implement the same thing on Windows. It's also a pain in the ass when I want to install a free appication that I use on Linux on a Windows machine when there is no binary available. Sometimes the only alternative is hundreds of dollars. Then you have special software like Kismet that will NEVER have an equal for Windows.
There are more confused Windows users than Linux users in the world. Things don't Just Work on Windows like people tend to claim. The worst problem is that when things do fail on Windows, most of the time there aren't proper error messages to reveal the problem and you are stuck guessing. NAV is a good example. It's one of the most, if not the most, used AV on the market and it is one of the biggest pains in the ass. The only reason you don't see as many forum posts by confused Windows users is because the majority of Windows users with problems don't have enough of a clue to actually post to a forum.
Like I said before, as a Linux user your description fits Windows to a "T" for me, and I am not exactly a clueless noob when it comes to Windows, although I am not very fond of it.
I'll just ignore the fact that you mentioned Windows and elegant in the same sentence for now. Getting a Linux machine up and running can be some work depending on the distribution but Windows can be a hassle on some machines too, most people don't have to worry about that though because Windows comes with their computers. I would argue that a fully functioning Linux system with GNOME/KDE is much more elegant than Windows. GNOME and KDE are much more consistent than a Windows desktop.
As for your specific needs, well that can easily be taken care of by buying the right equipment. That's not really a fault of Linux as much as it is that your hardare is just not compatible with Linux. Claiming that a setup like that is a "need" is disingenuous. You can easily have the same options with Linux if the proper hardware is selected. That may turn some people off to Linux but it is hardly a "kludge". The same thing can happen to Windows. I have a scanner that only works with 98/ME. It will not install on 2000/XP. I'm not blaming Windows for the fact that it cannot install. Clearly it is the fault of the manufacturer. Most people recognize this when it happens with Windows but they fail to make the same connection when they are trying to install unsupported hardware on Linux.
Time makes more converts than reason
Ah. And there is some place where I think we can agree. For your purposes, Linux is often better, but for the pusposes of the guy who just wants to be able to buy a new game every so often, and know that it will take a minimal amount of skill on his or her part (and I use the word "skill" as a way of conceding that these are people who often blame Linux because they are incompetent; Microsoft's biggest selling point is that it is "software for the incompetent"). My point was that there are some people, such as these people, for whom Windows is simply a better solution.
As for the comment about who is to blame for an ATI card not working on Linux, I acknowledge that the blame should be placed with ATI, and not the free source community, but, the point is that hardware support is hardware support, and regardless of who is to blame, a practical and casual user will consider support for a larger amount of hardware and software to be an advantage.
Also, for those of you who interpreted my original post as "Linux sucks" (if you're still reading these comments), I do wish to apologize. That was never my intention. My intention was to state that microsoft has it's strengths. I feel that if both OSes compete in areas where Linux is strong (shell scripting, customizability, and stability being a few of them), then Linux would win, hands down, but if they competed in the areas where Microsoft is strong (hardware and software support, and wizards), then microsoft would win.
Actually, it's one of the few "free software" arguments that actually flies with business. I get the freedom to change or upgrade what I want, when I want, regardless of whether or not the vendor still supports it. (With FOSS, anyone can support it.) And, I can be more sure that I get no nasty surprises, like phone-home software hidden in a bunch of security patches. Freedom from the vendor is a powerful freedom indeed.
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Yes, you are correct. The 'critical update' is downloaded and installed automatically if you have set automatic updates to do this.
The problem is that whenever you reboot the application calls home and the program is updated by microsoft when they feel like it. Not good as this 'critical update' is not critical at all - at least not to the user. Unlike any other 'critical' fix they push to everyone over Automatic Updates, this program has no purpose in regard to security, does not help YOU at all in terms of securing your computer, and is only there to spy on you. The 'execute arbitrary code' is when they update this product to do more than just 'check your system' and see if it is legit - this should only need to be done once.. but they do it every boot it seems. What information would you like it to send to microsoft today?
You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
I guess the only issue I have with this statement is that there are a lot of people who cannot even install software on Windows. These people freak out whenever they get a prompt. Windows is not a better solution for these people. In fact it is probably a worse solution because they have admin rights and have no idea how to wield them.
As for gamers, buy a console, really. If you are a gamer that cannot do anymore than install a game then maybe computers are not for you. It's not like the gaming market is as big as slashdotters make it out to be anyway. For some reason people here think that 95% of computer users cannot do without Windows games. I can tell you from experience that it is the other way around. 95% of users don't play games on their computers. Why do you think retailers sell so many machines with integrated graphics cards?
Linux does support more hardware. More than that, Linux actually supports hardware better in most cases. Like I said before though, it's all about your equipment. Perhaps there are users out there who want to install on their current hardware but it is unsupported. I can understand why they would shy away from Linux but I cannot understand why they would then go out and buy their next computer with unsupported hardare. People buy new machines all the time now, especially with prices dropping like rocks.
I guess that's where we differ. I don't think Microsoft is strong in hardware and software support as much as vendors only release their wares for Microsoft's platform. There is no reason other than the near monopoly status that they currently have. It is in no way because of MS's superiority. Personally I think that if you sat down a new user with Linux he/she would probably be better off than with Windows. There is no need to install additional codecs, or software with Linux. For the home user, Linux comes with everything you need. Now if we could only convince ISVs to provide Linux versions of their wares, Linux might actually take off.
Time makes more converts than reason