Slashdot Mirror
Kent State Banning Athletes from Using Facebook
denebian devil links to a Columbus Dispatch story about athletes at Kent State being forbidden to use Facebook — "not by the Web site, but by university administrators."
From the article: "Athletics Director Laing Kennedy recently told student-athletes they have until Aug. 1 to remove their Facebook profiles, citing a need to protect both their identities and the university's image. "We're really concerned about the safety of our student-athletes and some of the personal information some of them have on there," he said. ... If student-athletes don't remove their profiles by the deadline, they risk losing their scholarships, he said. Coaches and athletics counselors will monitor the site for violators."
denebian devil continues "Arstechnica also has an interesting take on the subject. Makes you wonder why they even bother providing internet connections on college campuses."
Apparently, they just didn't learn their lesson!! Now they are just trying to be controlling digitally.
... under "Prior Restraint." (Which, I'm told, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected.)
A state university with this kind of policy is setting themselves up for the mother of all First Amendment lawsuits. What an amazingly-dumb waste of university funding.
Just like whenever some top brass somewhere says "No comment," to a charged question, the forced lack of facebook profiles is just going to lead people to automatically assume that there is some bad stuff going down at Kent State. Can anyone say Ohio National Guard?
It has been a nervous year, with people beginning to feel like Christian Scientists with appendicitis.
is this even legal? I would think that what an adult choses to do in their provate time is their business... besides that, how are they any more or less safe on face book than on any internet site/chatroom in which they provide a large amount of information about themselves...
I suspect that this has far more to do with the uni wanting to protect its image - which for some reason it believes would be more damaged by people being on face-book than than this action to put stupid restrictions over what people can do
*''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
At my own college, security uses facebook to find out about parties and underage drinking on campus. Chances are, someone put stupid info up and has ruined i for everyone. Do I feel bad for them? Not at all.
Protect the university's image
"Our students don't drink! Honest"
I can attest to the fact that lots of students post drinking photos, even joining groups like "I was drunk when my facebook profile photo was taken". Kent state is worried about this. While I'm guessing they're wringing their hands at such open bragging about underage drinking that sort of thing is a fact of life, from long before facebook existed.
The Cheese Stands Alone.
Why Facebook and not Myspace? I've never even heard of "Facebook"...
I'm not fat, just big boned...
The Duke lacrosse team will do for college sports what Janet Jackson did for network TV. Nobody should be surprised that college sports don't want any more such negative publicity, and anyone who has used Facebook knows that its users are almost as dumb as Myspace users when it comes to posting incriminating pictures and other details of their lives. (Almost. Not quite. At least these are college students instead of pedophiles, adolescents, and aspiring criminals).
I think this violates the first amendment "Congress
shall make no law
peaceably to assemble". This is an implicit freedom of association issue, and as a
state funded school, Kent State has an obligation to uphold the constitution.
They do as an institution with an internet connection, have the right to
blacklist certain websites at their ISP level, which would probably be the best
technological solution, which would block students from using the account on
campus. But they are going after 'athletes' in particular, which is a viscious form of
discriminiation.
They feel that they need to 'protect their image', and student athletes form
a higher percentage of that 'image' than should really be the case. As much as I like
sports, we have elevated their role in college policy to an absurd level. Money talks.
But if a student has an athletic scholarship, he should be considered a student, first and
foremost, and no additional restrictions on being a student should be allowed. Sure, kick
them off the team if you want to, but by tying their student status to this rule, you are
holding them hostage, and to a different standard than your regular student. This is unfair
to them, especially as they are generating more revenue for you than the average student.
Sure maybe the student may be giving stalkers information, or embarrasing the
school. But that could be true of any student. So should the university ban all
cameras on campus, as not to show any drunken students? Ban all contact with the
outside world? These are students, not prisoners, and if they want to hand over their
information for stalkers, that is their right. They are being stupid, but that is their right.
If the university doesn't want them stalked on campus, it should beef up campus security.
They are not the university's 'asset', they are it's student, and it is supposed to be providing
them a service, not the other way around. Don't treat them as a revenue stream, and don't
violate the spirit of the constitution.
Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
That's all they are. The university does not care about the students' image, it cares about it's own image. Rather, the President making $500K/yr wants his salary and ego protected.
People who are really that worried about their image would not go through the ordeal of making themselves look "bad" on facebook now would they?
This might get modded flamebait but it's the truth; it makes me sick. They do this while raising tuition also to cover ever-increasing exorbitant sports expenditures.
Don't even get me started on organized college sports.
Do not downmod posts "overrated" simply because you disagree with them.
Is this even enforceable? Last time I remember checking, facebook didn't provide any way to check that a person's registered profile is actually them, outside of saying the email is from the actual school. Last year my friend registered himself as Kwami Brown and started poking all the guys on the hall.
What's to stop someone from taking a Kent State player's identity and creating a fake profile of them?
Too bad I'm all out of moderator points at the moment.
That's "Mr. Soulless Automaton" to you, Bub.
But she stressed the importance of excluding information employers wouldn't want to see.
One student chose a picture of himself shirtless holding a Miller Lite can for his profile photo. He's on the baseball team.
Another belongs to the "My cell phone is my best friend when I'm drunk in Kent" group and lists skinny-dipping as an interest.
I always thought these were good things on a pro-athlete's resume?
Dont universities concent to joining Facebook? IE when one signs up for facebook one does so with there University email and password. If Kent State wants to stop their students from using facebook because of there listed reasons, cant they just stop being apart of facebook
Mikey
I've always been the kinda guy to fall for the girl dressed like an eskimo.
...away from the internet as a network for data exchange, and towards the internet as a one-way pipe by which to push content your way.
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
Haven't these people thought of phones! Oh my god, these college athletes could be talking on phones RIGHT NOW, we have to stop them!
Some of these people talk about sex, drugs, etc. on phones, without realizing that the people on the other end could hear!
The way these student athletes talk on phones could give a bad impression of the university!
These students frequently communicate personal information via phones, such as address and class schedules, and the people on the other end could easily use this to stalk them!
We must stop student athletes from using all forms of communication! Its for their own good!
P.S. I've spoken with many students about this and they seem to agree!
Is your free speech for sale ? It is if you want to keep that scholarship. This is a great example of how growing economic inequality spills over into other aspects of life. A well off student can afford to take a stand on principle here.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
What possible good could this do? Is it really that surprising that athletes are just normal college students? If people put that stuff in their facebook/myspace/whatever profile, they don't really care if the world knows about it. As well they shouldn't, who here can rightly say drinking beer/getting drunk isn't a normal part of college life, athlete or no? I highly doubt more than 3 or 4 people are going to choose to go/not to go to Kent State because some baseball player on their team likes Miller Lite. (Mind you, I'm not defending Miller Lite). I can't imagine the resources spent to keep kids off of Facebook couldn't be better spent elsewhere...
Dear Columbus Dispatch,
After reading one of your recent articles I believe you may benefit from a wonderful new invention. This invention is known as the paragraph.
It is fairly obvious that the school is less concerned with preventing students from engaging in illegal activity and undesirable behavior than it is with preventing it from becoming public knowledge that students are engaging in illegal activity and undesirable behavior. If they had come out and said, "If we catch you confessing to activities that violate our code of conduct, you will face disciplinary action", that would be quite another thing altogether. (Not that people wouldn't complain, I'm just saying I think they could make a pretty decent defense of their actions.)
They are not telling them they will be kicked out of school directly. They are simply taking away their scholarships, so basically private funding, if they don't delete their facebook accounts. I do not see anything illegal about this, although this is extrememly immoral. If I was at a school that was being this immoral, I would drop out and go to a different school. They managed to get scholarships to this school, why not another?
Hmmm...if I was given a fat scholarship to go to school and play sports, I think I would just suck it up.
Click me for free money!
Oh noes!!one11!1.. they banned athletes from facebook!
What about the hundreds of universities across the country blocking bit torrent and other p2p software, preventing you from connecting to online game servers, and other crap..
I mean my university requires residence on their campus for 2 of your 4 years and then they turn around and give you not the internet, but some hobbled pseudo-tv.
This athlete thing is the tip of the iceberg.. and if they can make such complaints for athletes over a social networking site then they should be making the same complaints for the rest of the student body with p2p networking sites.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
His email address is lkennedy@kent.edu.
It's on Kent State's website.
Please be civil. Honey, vinegar, and all that.
His phone number is actually on the website too, but if you want that, put out the effort yourself. I don't advice calling. Sending a letter is probably the best way to be heard... So to speak.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Well that's an improvement, at least they are not still shooting students.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
Just an excuse to cruise for hotties?
---Excuse the bad English, I'm American---
The move to ban the site came from students and coaches expressing concern over safety and privacy issues. Kennedy said he hasn't seen the site.
So not only has the guy making the policy not even seen the site, but the move supposedly came from students and others - the same students who were posting there in the first place? "Higher" education is so smart.
I don't want to sound like a troll but WTF? is this brought into the argument because they died in a sporting accident? drunk driving? When on the internet you do have to be considerate of others (like ones who don't hear about the news of a state some 30 borderlines away. . .)
I guess what I'm saying is how I can never forget if I never knew about them in the first place?
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
Um, perhaps because it is easeir to plagerize papers using the internet? But seriously, one could consider research for papers, help with math and science papers. Most universities, perhaps you haven't been in one recently, pay for a large number of resources, that are really quite expensive, to thier students and faculty.
Of course, it may be that millions of dollars of infrastructure and millions in connections fees are what is neccesary for the modern college student to get a date. I just had to ask the babe that sat next to me in Calculus.
To be more serious, I understand that this ban has more to do with public image, and could be construed as censorship. But think of ti this way. The average athelete is on scholarship, which mean he or she is there at the whim of the university and those alumni that donate to the university. If, due to something posted on the net, such funds become unavailable or the students freedom becomes compromised, then the student does not get an education. We all know that adolescents and young adult do silly things, and none of us really want to impose any significant consequences for the most of the silly things kids do. The minor things are often best handled in house in such a way that boundries are enforced, but the future of the student is not compromised. It may seem funny to post teammates drinking, or in drag, or pretending to commit some felony, but in the competitive world of althletics, where perhaps 1:500 gets into college ball, and 1:2000 gets into pro ball, such actions may not be insignificant.
And think of it another way. When one enters college, escpecially on an scholarship, and especially on an athelitic scholar ship, one is asking the college to help guide you to a hopefully more promising future. A significant number of freedoms and rights are given away. Unlike other 18 year olds, you are in class and studying, instead of working at starbucks for 8 hours then coming to you apartements and doing nothing. The college students has any number of people using thier experience to navigate a specific educational journey, even though it is theorectically possible to navigate that same path using free resources. In other words, the student is attending the university to help insure a specific outcome, and has accepted some limitations to achieve that outcome.
To put it simpler, if facebook is so important, an athelete could gain an education and even break into the majors without a university. It is not impossible to his the minors and work the ladder to the majors. But if one wants a univeristy degree, or wants the NCAA help, then one should have a little trust in the people in charge. If there is no trust, then why go to that school? If the school is so corrupt, then why accept the tainted money?
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
They do realize that the students can just set up another account under a nickname, leave out what college they go to (or create a pseudo-name for it), and continue on they merry drunken, misguided way.
"Makes you wonder why they even bother providing internet connections on college campuses."
;)
Oh you know, research, email, that sort of thing. This may surprise you but the original intent of providing internet access was not to pass around mp3's, pictures of yourself drunk, and porn (well, that last one is debatable).
You would think students over the years would have gotten better about using the internet but it seems it has regressed quite a bit. I am reminded of reports of students at the university where I work getting busted selling drugs on facebook and posting pictures of themselves doing illegal things. In the papers they always seem quoted as indignantly saying "I didn't know the police could monitor that stuff, that is really scary" as though cops looking at facebook was on par with warrant-less wiretapping.
Look, I'm a Fight The Power, Go EFF, Die MPAA kinda guy. However, the way I see it is if a school is giving you tens of thousands of dollars for your education and they decide they want you to either (1) not advertise that you are a drunken asshole all over the net, or (2) risk losing that free money, then that is their right. I think it is a little harsh to ban facebook altogether, I think I might have seen one or two actual mature entries in it, but that is certainly on more solid legal ground than subjectively taking it on a case by case basis.
Also, you can look at it as preparing these student athletes for the future. If they make it to the pros and become the typical corporate whore, they will have to get used to being told how to act, what to say, and what to do. College is actually preparing them for the real world
Finkployd
- http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Thomas_Jeffer son/Thomas Jefferson
Why can't they just make their own choices and be responible for them? We're talking about adults of legal age. I'm sooooooooo sick of the "It's for your protection" BS that it's not even funny. How about accountability?
- Kal`Goblez
This stuff is getting ridiculous. These are fucking adults we're talking about here. The concern sure as hell isn't about safety. "Privacy issues"? They are concerned about privacy so they -monitor- what their students do on their own time?
Isn't Kent State the college where they executed Vietnam War protesters in the 1970s?
I guess the only lesson the college learned from that hideous exercise was that published pictures of their students can get the college into trouble.
--
make install -not war
They worked well in the past, especially at Kent State!
Dude, seriously, do they not teach history in schools anymore?
Adminttedly, the AC was completely off-topic, but a simple Google would've revealed the importance of those names. Quick version, there was an anti-war protest. The governor called the national guard, the guard opened-fire on the students, killing four.
I don't blame you for not knowing this - I blame our society, which is basically giving new meaning to the old adage "those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it".
"That naive cube! How long must I suffer this!" --Sheldon J. Plankton
Selected grafs from one of TFA...
"College athletic programs being what they are, many schools depend on the revenue generated by sports programs as a significant source of funding."
Don't have a cite at hand, but as I recall very few schools actually see net benefit from athletic tied funding. Mostly athletic money goes to funding more athetics, or at least more expensive athletics.
"Kent State officials have also expressed concern over the personal information posted by student athletes. That data has been used by both sports agents and fans to contact students inappropriately."
OK! So more likely there are agents trying to encourge students to cash in before the school has sucked every last dollar out of their star athletes?
Finally... Kent State of all places is worried about an image problem? Somehow I would think that after having several of your students shot that a few drunken jocks would be the least of your problems.
Three Squirrels
ALISON KRAUSS
UNION STATION?
dont mod me down, but those football players would fail there courses if they could not buy there essays on the internet. Thats my take.
If you never heard of the 4 students killed by the National Guard while demonstrating against the Vietnam War at Kent State, you should welcome the chance to learn. Because no matter how serious is this Facebook conflict that you're spending time reading and posting about, those killings are much more serious and important.
Now that you heard about them, you shouldn't forget them. That's the point of the post.
--
make install -not war
Not only is it unlikely that agents and scouts would use facebook to get info on student athletes as the school suggests, it's also impossible as you have to be a registered student at the same university to view any information on a facebook member. Members from other universities can't see info on any other members from another university and outside agents can't even become members. The fact that the school has said that the information HAS been used this way just shows them to be desperate liars.
Another [student] belongs to the "My cell phone is my best friend when I'm drunk in Kent" group and lists skinny-dipping as an interest. She competes in track and field.
And I want to be her new best friend. I have a shore house, want to come visit?
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
A friend of mine worked for Campus Security at Kent. Her and some friends had a "Campus Security Sucks!" type group on Facebook. They had a party one night, all off of the clock and they were all fired for inapropriate behavior. (Someone who wasn't invited complained and got them in trouble). Part of the evidence used against them was their Facebook group. All of them were fired.
I went to Kent read, Kent write, Kent State - lived in a dorm and all that. Not many rules, really.
I think it's important to note that this applies to _student athletes_. This isn't a first amendment issue. I don't see anything at all wrong with SA's having to abide by a different set of rules for situations like this. They're getting _scholarships_ from the school AND they're representing the school and its image to the NCAA, other institutions, etc. As far as their being ambassadors for the school, I don't see the distinction between student athletes, coaches, professors, etc. They're all receiving some sort of compensation from the school in return for some tangible service. The school has its reputation and image to uphold and it would be irresponsible for them to anything other than what they've done. If something bad _did_ happen or some student athlete on scholarship caused an incident that could have otherwise been prevented, then you would all be quick to blame the school.
Good for them for making the rule in the first place.
This isn't news. It would be news if Kent forbade _all_ students from using facebook.
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
I call bullshit. You claim that you had an athletic scholarship AND you are posting on slashdot?
Next, you'll be telling us that you have a girlfriend and that you like gnome and kde equally well.
Kent doesn't exactly have an "image". They are just another college in the Midwest that no one cares about.
That's total BS.
I grew up in the Midwest, and Kent has a reputation.
It's a party school known for football and rapist jocks. Go through the morgue of any nearby city newspaper and you'll see a stories about sexual assault cases on a monthly, often weekly basis.
There are no virgins on the Kent campus, although many women were never given a choice in the matter.
Oh, I get it, when you said "no one cares about" Kent you were talking from the viewpoint of someone on one of the coasts, no doubt thinking of the Midwest as "Flyover Country."
Remember, the Midwest cares about the coasts just as much as the coasts care about it. Which is to say, "Not much at all."
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
from now on they are also not allowed to own cats, because cats carry to many bacterias
;)
they are not allowed to eat pork or seafood other than fish
they are not allowed to swim less than 30 minutes after eating
they are not allowed to own computers because they could be tempted to violate copyrights
they are not allowed to date members of the opposite sex cause it could lead to STDs
i mean SERIOUSLY who the hell do they think they are telling them what they are and are not allowed to do off campus!? that is absurd!!
thats gotta be quite a situation for students there.. should you stand up for your rights and tell them to go f*** themselves and risk losing out.. or play by their unfair rules?
Someone should create profiles "on behalf of" all the football players... and then let's see them have fun sorting out which profiles are real, and which are fake. =)
How many athletes with scholarships can the university afford to lose? 'Cuz we all know, universities don't appear to care more about their sports programs than their academic programs a lot of the time... no, not at all. So how about every athlete making sure to create a profile on Facebook in protest? I seriously doubt the university can stand up to that sort of coordinated protest, considering they may lose some star atheletes.
And for any university officials curious enough to be reading this thread, shame on you! Have you so forgotten your own youth that you think authoritarian measures like this actually TEACH anything to the young minds you're (in theory) trying to train and shape? Other than "money talks" or "extortion works", I mean?
You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
before I return I'd just like to say that now that I know what has happened I won't forget, so yes the point has gotten across.
The thing is though In real life (this is an analogy don't take it literally), you can't expect someone to go to the encylopedia if they don't know what you're talking about. It is expected of you to elaborate on something you mention. How is it any different on the internet? Because google is there? That's complete bs and you know it!
Also I never said I didn't want to learn about it.
One more thing, they don't teach american history in these parts (but what iSwitched said is right, I didn't even learn my country's history when I went to school, I mean, is it really that important to see ancient greece, then the russian revolution, and not even topics which are important to know, like the events of the last 60 some years. . .
);
return 0;
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
Actually, I'd say it's a great example of how there's no such thing as a free lunch, and getting other people to pay your bills always ends up giving them more control over your life than you'd like.
Sort of like how having publicly-financed healthcare (even if only in part - e.g. free ER treatments) gives politicians all sorts of excuses to pass laws requiring seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, and other things designed to protect you from yourself.
Think of it as "the invisible foot of government".
Why Facebook and not Myspace?
Because the main "advantage" of facebook is also its main disadvantage. Since the profile is automatically associated with your college email address, the facebook profile becomes an extension of your "college identity" and what you present on there is more or less irrevocably associated with the college you go to (there are now ways around this, but circumventing this basically makes having a facebook profile meaningless.)
Will KSU care what their student athletes put on Myspace? Maybe...but since its alot easier for the student to not associate their college with their Myspace profile, a careful student may have no problems with Myspace at all.
It's not quite the same thing. Skydiving and motorcycles are proven to be higher risk actions, that probably would drive NFL insurance policies through the roof. Facebook and MySpace may be prone to acts of stupidity, but it in no way would impair an athlete from performing his or her designated sport if something "bad" gets posted.
The way the policy is written now is too broad, and is written in such a way that allows the university to be lazy bums. The burden of proof of wrongdoing or improper behavior should be on the university. While banning the activity may seem like a viable solution to the PHB's at the university, it is most likely a breach of freedom of expression.
What the university should have implemented is an addendum to their normal code of coduct statement that reads, "Any reasonable evidence of improper behavior (underage drinking, etc.) brought to the attention of the supervising board or committee, irregardless of format (internet, photos, etc.), will result in immediate expulsion from all university athletic teams the individual is a member of." While this requires a little more proactive stance by the university, it gives them a failsafe where they have plausible deniability for actions that would hurt the universities credability.
While I think coaches should strongly discourage players from using MySpace and Facebook type accounts, it should not be banned. And the burden of proof (or reasonable evidence) should rest on the university. Otherwise the university is just promoting the generalization that all MySpace and Facebook users are immoral troublemakers. I wouldn't be surprised if MySpace and Facebook consider litigation on the matter, since it is probably the equivalent of slander for the internet.
"Athletics Director Laing Kennedy recently told student-athletes they have until Aug. 1 to remove their Facebook profiles, citing a need to protect both their identities..."
Of course, they don't care if "ordinary" students have their identities stolen, are stalked, or whatever... just their star athletes.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Protection from what? These people aren't 12 years old.
Makes you wonder why they even bother providing internet connections on college campuses.
How is that even relevant to the article? Sure, some athletes COULD get themselves in trouble on Facebook...but the Internet works just fine for the use of e-mail, online homework, easy access to notes and practice exams...
I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the internet's been a good thing during my time at college.
Goo goo g'joob.
Makes you wonder why they even bother providing internet connections on college campuses.
Maybe its for you know like to help with that thing students are supposed to do on occasion at college.. study and research? Researching hot college chicks profiles does NOT count..
To be honest, there are too many issues in modern athletics due to NCAA rules. I work in the athletics department of a major university, and even as a webmaster I deal with NCAA regulation compliance for about 20-30% of my time.
Some of the regulations include use of student-athlete photos. The school can be fined if the student athlete's photo is used as a promotion, with or without the school's knowledge. I'm not sure about facebook, but I know other sites like OkCupid and myspace.com use semi-random photos (they try to pick 'interesting' people) as promotions. Instant fine. Someone loses their job.
Other issues deal with communication. A particular coach in the Big 12 went outside the communications rules by using an internet text messaging service. He spammed a bunch of potential recruits inboxes with text messages. He got a slap on the wrist and Oklahoma said they no longer needed him. I could easily see online site misused in this way.
I'm sure that our school is going to be taking this step shortly as well. It's not a privacy issue or a rights issue or anything else; it's because the students are student-athletes and the NCAA has placed very stiff penalties on universities that go outside the rules and regs.
oh no college athletes might not get to collect fat scholarships and post on facebook about how hammered they got last saturday? JESUS CHRIST, IT IS A GODDAMN TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE!!!
there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
The average college athletics department, if allowed to run free outside of games and carefully scripted public appearances, would bring endless disgrace on just about any school. Now mind you, if it was me, I wouldn't have bothered with any glad-handing bullshit about wanting to protect students; I'd have just come right out and said it was to protect the university's image. Of course, if it was me, I wouldn't have banned the athletes from being on Facebook; I'd have just required them not to state their affiliation to the university.
Well, actually, if it was me, I'd have encouraged athlete participation on Facebook and MySpace in hopes that it would create sufficiently large scandals that I could shut down most or all of the athletic department and repurpose their budgets and facilities for something actually educational. Not that underage drinking and date-rape isn't educational in a sense, but it hardly requires a university.
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
Watch as in a couple of months they need to susspend entire teams due to some other student posting pictures of the athletes doing something stupid.
Of course if they word things correctly they won't have a backlash due to incorrect enforcement.
[url=http://thistleshrub.net]Thistle & Shrub Studios[/url] Central Illinois Painters
i hope these idiots get sued into oblvion.
how does an athletics director get to decide who can keep their scholarship anyway? arent scholarships created by donation to help worthy individuals? i seriously doubt that any of them ever say anything about having to do what you gym teacher says.
this policy is so obviously wrong its gonna fail in court fast. free speech anyone? protect the students? bullshit, it discriminates against certain types of students. how come this policy is only for atheletes, and not other members of the student body. it further discriminates against those who rely on scholarships (ie financially challenged) to enforce a policy that nobody else with money would even consider. in fact anyone with money would instantly sue if some idiot at a university (that they are paying the salary of) tried this.
i guess it just goes to prove the old saying : those who can, do. those who can't teach. those who can't teach, teach gym.
Actually, getting you to google for the info, given the date and people's names within the context of "Kent State" is a better way for you to learn your own lesson from those clear events than if they'd just linked to something that represents the lesson they took from it themselves.
I learned as much Roman history as I could stand, and others besides, when I was in (American) school. I've learned even more since. Because the "real world" is largely the result of all those histories. Or the common patterns. Or the lessons learned from history by those in power, or the lessons they didn't learn. In other words, history is the biggest influence on the present, followed only by the future - and that's all there is. American history is important because America is important. The Kent State massacre is even more relevant today than it's been in 30 years, as America is bogged down in a distant Asian guerrilla war covered in fake ideology and rooted in business. With many students in the forefront of the movement against it, and most students' lives ultimately on the line in fighting age. And as goes America, now the only superpower, so go most of the rest of the governments of the world, sooner or later, more or less. Especially when successfully confronting popular resistance.
To connect to the specific topic of this story, Facebook is as important a public place where students communicate today as the campus green was during Vietnam. That's one reason why Kent State's actions are better understood when informed of how they've treated their students in the past. Especially since their defining moment was murdering 4 students publicly demonstrating against the war.
If you learn history better than the people running America today, you'll have an advantage. In other words,
SELECT history.lesson
FROM history, people
WHERE
(history.people LIKE $me)
AND
(history.place LIKE $campus)
--
make install -not war
Removing jock Internet profiles is a big win for the University: it gives the press fewer opportunites to embarrass the University with dumb jock hijink jpegs when said jocks are inevitably arrested for date rape, drug abuse, robbery, murder, etc.
"Makes you wonder why they even bother providing internet connections on college campuses."
Geeze... I dunno... to do COURSEWORK?
I know it's blasphemy to suggest that students do schoolwork, but that is the primary intention of a University network.
I'm personally a fan of facebook, as it allows us to weed out the inferior specimens of the species. Anyone who posts pictures of their drunk orgy online and doesn't expect their boss/teacher/coach/grandmother to see it... well, we don't want those people to succeed in life.
I'm a Kent student. And while I know this is by far not universal among the athletes at this campus, at least going by the ones who I've seen in classes:
Good, if not good enough. Because they're getting a ridiculous amount of money in the form of scholarships and such, in exchange for which they do terribly in classes (dragging their groups down with them, much of the time), drink as much or more as anybody else here (which is no small amount) and then go throw a ball around every now and then in exchange.
No, I don't have sympathy. Stop showing off your drinking skills and go to class. I'd be happier if they'd prevent them from drinking and tell them to stop using the team as an excuse to ditch classwork when they apparently have plenty of time for parties. Considering very few of them are going to be able to rely on sports as a career, I'd be happier if the University was less concerned with image and more concerned with the fact that the images are often of underaged students drinking alcohol. But... oh, right. I go to a state school in Ohio. Chances of that happening... slightly less than zero. They'll probably end up cutting the whole ban later due to lack of funds for enforcement.
In case one or two students has a crazy notion that it may be useful in furthering their education, future career, general knowledge, etc, rather than simply seeing it as yet another way to try to get laid.
Never mind, now I'm just talking crazy!
Many universities also warn students against putting personal information on such online sites out of concern that it makes them targets for predators...
Uh, hello? These are adults. At what point will "society" start making people accontable for their actions instead of trying to protect anyone from every making their own choices? Hell, might as well ban college students from drinking because they may get arrested for driving drunk (and let's ignore the responsible drinkers), or ban sex because you never know when a some "baby-momma drama" might break out. If these adults want to put up their own personal information, then that's their right. If someone does something stupid and posts about it online, if within the school's jurisdiction and on campus, deal with the action rather than banning websites.
Kennedy said some Kent students who list phone numbers and addresses have been contacted inappropriately, either by strangers or sports agents.
If adults choose to list personal info and are contacted, well, it was their choice. Take the info down or quit complaining. And just how is it a bad thing for athletes to be contacted by agents? Wait, that may mean the school loses a star athlete a year sooner than anticipated, and they wouldn't want the pros competing for players now, would they?
It's a girl!
A starter on our basketball team (a computer engineering major no less!) got pranked pretty hard by an opposing school after an elaborate IM ruse that all started from someone acquiring his AIM screen name off his facebook account. OTOH I think people should really just use a bit more common sense about this stuff and realize that there are potential repercussions for putting this stuff outthere. I just can't shake the feeling that facebook is slowly going to go away. Especially as more and more administrative types begin using it under the guise of students.
No strippers allowed at athlete hosted parties?
...at least in the eyes of the University itself. Where I go to school, the school is condescending to the students, and the faculty acts as if they have something to compensate for whenever talking to a student. I feel like I'm in 4th grade when I go to class or have an issue that needs to be addressed.
Sig: I stole this sig.
well first it was drug testing, so you would not do anything illigal at home never mind the job. now its what sites you can post to decides your fate with a college. what one should ponder is were this will take us all if it is allowed to continue? Comrade G.w. Bush is looking in our windows, do any of you care? Remember the real name of the patriot act should have been the communist states of america act. think Stalin....
check out here what they have to say about it from the students' paper
While I disagree with the approach Kent State is taking, I think many of these students may wind up thanking the school later for the misguided effort.
It is already a fact that companies are using services like Facebook to screen potential employees and that US government agencies have expressed an interest in gathering "data" from these services (and are probably already doing so, with our without the active help of the sites). When college students (who are supposed to represent the best and brightest of our youth) appear to have little concern posting information and content about themselves which can negatively impact their lives, it makes you question the critical thinking ability in our culture today. Whether you're posting drunken, half-naked party pictures and your affinity for smoking weed and having wild sex, or merely indicating your favorite books, TV shows, etc., this information can be used in many different ways by many different people and groups. Whether it's an employer checking up on a new hire, a corporation trying to target advertising in a precise manner or a government trying to develop a database of people with "dangerous" views, the data we make available on these social networks can and will have significant implications on our lives, even though it may not be entirely obvious at first glance, especially in these early days of the phenomenon. One would hope that college students have the intelligence to realize the implications of posting certain information and make better judgements about what they do decide to post. They should also realize that in the digital world, they may delete information from their online profiles, but this data could very easily have been harvested and stored by third-parties. Bottom line: treat everything you post online as something that will be available for others to see for the rest of your life.
In Kent State's case, I think a better approach would be to educate students about how the data they post can and will likely be used. If they better understand the potential consequences they will hopefully be intelligent enough to make better decisions. Kent State's actions will be seen as an attack on freedom of speech and make it easier to marginalize the valid concerns they have. We should also remember that having freedom of speech does not mean that we should not give thought to what we say. Everything we say has consequences, both good and bad. As Voltaire said "We have a natural right to make use of our pens as of our tongue, at our peril, risk and hazard."
You know, these college kids should instead transfer to some country that supports free speech, like the United States does.
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
I'm sure this is a DIRECT outcome of the Alleged Duke Rape Case that's not only being mishandled by the prosecution(There IS no case against the Duke kids IMHO), but it's forcing Universities to take steps to protect their students(read: athletes) from whatever digital evil they thought up.
The "anti-facebook" is more than likely a protective measure to keep the wild parties where strippers might be involved under wraps. We all know, if there's no proof, then it NEVER happened.
" i r 1337. j00 a l0z3r "
That talk kinda makes you cry, doesn't it?
That's right..cry those nerdly tears
All it will take is one smart student that wants some money to sue ken states balls off.
Censorship = violation of the constitution of the United States of America.
really all this comes down to is the college doesnt want a reporter snooping around and figuring out that suzzie Q the trackstar is blowing the coach.
Just how are limits on freedom in the armed forces applicable to limits on freedom at a public university? Are we supposed to think that because the armed forces can stop you from talking smack about the president then universities can do the same thing? Baloney.
There is a big difference between restrictions that allow the armed forces to function and restrictions that may make a university look better. While armed forces restrictions may be subjected to the "rational basis" test (meaning that they must only serve to further a governmental interest on a rational basis), restrictions to free speech would probably be subjected to "strict scrutiny" -- does the restriction advance a compelling governmental interest, and does it do it in the narrowest possible manner?
Different situation, different test. Kent State fails this test (or should, anyway).
----- Why sig when you can sign? PGP key id 7675D05E
Do you acknowledge that Jewish people die?
If no, you're an idiot.
If yes, are you happy about it?
Recognizing the truth of something != Being "happy" about it
Looks to me like these sorts of campuses are seeing students images as marketing dollars types of tools. Maybe even the tennis shoe and gym bag and racquets and trunks teams are behind this to make sure their multi-year "donations" are not devalued or undercut by pimps/druggie/murderer/rapist or other students who ruin the "investment" a big company made or makes in universities. Consider: government can sometimes be a patent-co-owner in university inventions...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Kent State has a proud history of violating their students rights.
at least the National Guard is tied up on the border. I'd hate to see anyone shot for exposing this fine university to the internet.
Did the students sign any sort of agreement/contract stating they will not engage in this type of activity? I am not sure how legal the university's move is. I would imagine that the university has no authority over the existence of the site, but they do have authority to suspend scholarships, etc. for what is posted on the site. If they post something defaming to the university for example, then maybe they can suspend their scholarships, etc.
The university is doing this as a scare tactic I bet. If all the athletes were kicked off the team, the university would probably lose a lot of revenue if like their football team had zero players on it. Cannot sell tickets that way.
Makes you wonder why they even bother providing internet connections on college campuses.
Education.
(Facebook | MySpace | OtherCrap ) = ~Education.
...time to send in the troops!
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2004-08-31-top-ten- number-7_x.htm
College athletics generates a lot more money than what the scholarships cost.
Just think about that when talking about the 'free money' athletes are getting.
Not only do these athletes get to provide millions in revenue to everybody but
themselves, but they get this kind of condescension from the beneficiaries of
this largess. I agree that college sports is a waste of scholarship money, but
schools just don't get million dollar contracts to put the chess team on ESPN.
If removing them from the team cuts off their scholarship (effectively elminating the ability of many to afford that school), couldn't a case be made that kicking them off the team is the same as not allowing them an education?
IANAL, though. Feel free to correct me.
Taking the position that these tradeoffs shouldn't exist is all well and good, but expecting people to take you seriously is something else.
Those tradoffs should not exist at a state university. If they want to kick people out doing some real harm, that's OK. Kicking people out for publishing a web page is pure bullshit. Policing it is going to be a real waste of time and money.
If you want me to take YOU seriously, justify the expense in some real terms. No, telling me that the company you work for sucks is not an adequate justification. Nor are the silly things rich people can do or the fact you work for a living (or at least pretend to work for a living).
Face it, at best Kent State's Administrators are a bunch of pussies. At worst, they are a bunch of greed heads worried about revenue from "exclusive" interviews.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Err, athletic scholarships - you know, "attend a token amount of classes and spend the rest of your time on the field, being flown around the country, picking up lucrative scholarships, and having your training for a multi-million dollar a year 'career' subsidised by fellow and former students", not "maths prodigy from The Projects/Harlem/South Central".
Why do you use that kind of language? Can't you make a point without using a word like "bullshit"? "Silly things rich people can do"? Let me guess.... nah, nevermind.
First they said (sarcastically) "Yeah, because we all know that in the real world there are no trade-offs like this."
Then they said "Taking the position that these tradeoffs shouldn't exist is all well and good, but expecting people to take you seriously is something else."
They're not just recognizing the truth of something bad. They're dismissing criticism of it. They're saying we should accept it.
And you are backing them up with some of the stupidest logic I've seen... today. Another Anonymous idiot Coward stumbles into the boneyard.
--
make install -not war
Guess they have to go back to finding their groupies the old-fashioned way.
"Hey baby, let me rub on your ass a little bit"
(Giggle) "Ok!"
I am a division 1 athlete and at my school some coaches, luckily not mine, feel the need to spy on the players to make sure they are acting "appropriately." If incriminating photos or comments are on your profile you can be suspended/ kicked off the team, loose your scholarship, etc. The way they do this is the coaches themselves have an Facebook account and you are required to 'friend' the coaching staff. I can understand the coaches not wanting there players to go drink and party in season, especially nights before games, however I do think that they should understand that it is college and that they should have enough respect for their players as well as the players for the coaches to not break the rules. Any college athlete should be committed enough to his/her sport and coach that this spying and snooping isn't necessary. On a side note I was actually contacted not to long ago by a newspaper for an interview about College Athletes, Facebook, and School/Coaches. -- Sorry if this is somewhat incoherent, I am very tired at the moment.
As a KSU drunken sports fan (live like 5 minutes away), I can reveal the "real reason" why the athletic department banned facebook.
Being the sports geniuses that they are, the athletic department came up with some simple logic: "Players don't need no stinking Facebooks! They should be studying their playbooks! Duh!"
Coderz 4 Life
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
I completely understand the policy... As an employee of an Athletic University for a School larger than Kent State, I see first hand how irresponsible these kids (student athletes) can be (Not saying the all are, but we all read our local papers). There is a lot of pressure on these kids and what an immature 18 year old would think nothing of may haunt them for their professional career. College athletes are celebrities in their own right and people are hungry for dirt. Say a hot shot freshman gets drafted by a major sports team and he posted photos of himself at parties drinking as a minor. Now we have dirt. What's worse, if he is a scholarship holder and he's publicly posting his lack of respect for the law and the school he plays for, it doesn't look good on the school, athletes, or staff.
A lot of responsibility is on these kids. Believe me. So, think of it as a rule that insists that student athletes CYA, for their sake and the school's sake.
One day the toilets of the world will rise up... And I'm going to nuke them.
hopefully, someone doesn't go online and pretend to be one or more of those players.
But what about things like eBay accounts? What if they have bad feedback. OMG, can you imagine how BAD that will make them look. Maybe they should also ban having eBay accounts.
Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.
Looks like it's time to start making a shitload of fake Kent State athelete profiles on Facebook!
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
And if they don't? Well, call out the National Guard...
If their online activities are censored, they should all quit, thereby destroying the school's athletic program. See how the fucking administrators like that gambit.
If I were to bet, I'd say this had more to do with the ability of the local community to have online mugshots of possible date-raping jock assholes... ( no, I'm not saying all atheletes are like that ) I do believe they may see this as a way of cleaning up before the ( DNA ) spill.
Think about that. You're in college. Perhaps you've taken an economics class. The university is certainly getting more than heavy drinkers in the exchange. They aren't giving away their money for nothing, despite what you say.
They're getting revenue from those atheletes in the form of donations, gate, concessions, applicants/students, and I'm sure other things I'm not aware of (I'm not in the industry).
I was a walk-on Football player at Colorado (the 5th down National Champ years). While we had more than our share of low-lifes, we also had a Rhodes Scholar, a few well-studied engineers (hello), some architects, and other genuinely intelligent and thoughtful people who I was proud to associate with.
I know you're pissed that they get a free ride and you don't. I get that (a walk-on doesn't get a scholarship). But college is all about preparing you for life, and life isn't fair. So buck up, start a business, and hire those former college stars as your sales people, cashing in on their glory days.
doug.
Maybe if the colleges focused more on the problem of the jocks being drunken jerks instead of the symptom, that they *provide evidence* that they are drunken jerks online, this would be an education issue and not a free speech issue.
The real issue is that they are providing these guys a free ride in college, not always just monetarily, and the behavior they foster is something they are ashamed of (or otherwise hurts the college). Instead of taking off from the team those students that are poor representatives of the college, they use their financial power to stifle freedom of speech.
These are college students who are supposed to be getting an education. And the officials are running an educational institution (supposedly). Controlling how students communicate and express themselves is a bigger issue than telling them to go pee in a cup.
It would be funny if a bunch of students did a DOS against Kent. They could register profiles as if they are actual Kent state atheletes. A group of 10-15 people could sign up as the Kent basketball team. When the college tried to suspend them they would say they were innocent and when it hit the news the college would look stupid. Then in the future, the college would never be sure if profiles were for those people or from pranksters!
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
You're assuming I don't... which isn't, in fact, true. But in exchange for what I'm getting, I have to do stuff, and so do most folks, whether it's work for a GA, keeping a GPA up, etc. Yes, I realize that the University is making money off *some of* these people, but there's a certain amount being put up on the student's end. Part of that is being expected to act like a credit to the university, and not, for example, being arrested for marijuana trafficking and convicted of possession. (Not that *that* stopped them from putting Cribbs back on the football team in '04, scholarship intact so far as I know. He got a one-game suspension.)
It does mean that when the University's footing the bill for your education, you're going to be required to act like slightly less of a moron than the general student population. Further, ethically, you probably have a responsibility to do something more with your education than drink and steal street signs. Most of these athletes will not have 'glory days' except in their most optimistic rememberances. Nobody will remember them after they're gone. They're not providing so much service to the University that their bad behavior ought to be excused, and unfortunately, much of what the university community uses Facebook for is the glorification of bad behavior.
How to Avoid getting Used by Marketers 101
Every college should require it.
It would be a combination of micro-classes on topics such as:
- What companies do with your personal profile.
- What your neighbors can do with personal stories you publish on the internet.
- How to avoid becoming a victim in a social network.
- Internet ethics and laws that enforce them.
- Social engineering and psychological scams on the web.
- Viruses, Worms and Trojan OH MY!!!
Seriously... it's time we educate young people in an organized manner... they're going to learn all about it one way or another, some will abuse - some will be abused... let's level the field at least.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
"'We're really concerned about the safety of our student-athletes and some of the personal information some of them have on there'"
Naturally the best way to help postsecondary students become responsible adults is to pretend you're their mommy. Shrewd move, Kennedy.
"If student-athletes don't remove their profiles by the deadline, they risk losing their scholarships"
SECURITY ADVISORY
Summary: Spoofing vulnerability
Affected site(s): Kent State University
Affected Versions: All
Release Date: 6/27/2006
Details: Arbitrary Kent State athletes can have their scholarships revoked if the attacker has a picture of the athlete and can create a Facebook account using this photo along with vague details. Kent State athletes who already have Facebook accounts are at greater risk, as the information contained within will be more specific and credible when used by the attacker even if the student takes his or her account down. Vendor has not been notified, as vendor hasn't got a clue in the first place.
Workaround: Attend a school that treats adults like adults.
It's not like Kent State doesn't already have a bad reputation for being a cesspool for hippie leftist commie sympathizers or anything...
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Can't read facebook. Can't write facebook. Kent State. From a KSU grad. Please mod this up if you're a Golden Flash! Rockin' the Mid American Conference!!
(college kids == adults) {mustBeOnCrack(you)}
one must give up a certain amount of one's personal identity to be a part of a larger organization. If price of belonging to the team (whose reward is a free ride amoung all else) is too great then it will become a recruiting problem.
If somebody was offerring to pick up my tab in exchange for my playing lacrosse I can't imagine that I would miss the virtual relationships from facebook - i mean think of all the realtime stripper parties I would be enjoying in exchange.
I'm all for free as in speech, but there are circumstances where certain people need to be resticted from saying things in certain venues - think Martha Stewart and Pete "charlie hustle" Rose for a couple of examples. Since college boys in general and jocks in particular have demonstrated a propensity towards saying wrong things this action is not only warranted but prudent.
Kudos to the man for keeping the overprivildged down!
given that only the un-patriotic oppose the patriot act
and that only terrorists lament the suspension of the bill of rights as an anti-terrorism measure...
only people that are on drugs are opposed to drug tests, particularly for student athletes. Make 'em take lots of tests to compensate for the ones they're not taking in their classes.
As the parent of a student athlete I would welcome more drug testing - make my kid pee in a bottle every night and email me the results - don't stop at illegal drugs either, let me know if he's been drinking or skipping his vitamins.
hey steve, you're a kent state alum and into me for 12 large - how 'bout finding out if any of the starters went to a party friday night and I wont have to break your thumbs today.
While it shouldn't matter to those with authority, maybe this has something to do with the football team's 1-10 record (0-8 for the MAC). Whether the student athletes (for the football team at least) are studying or boozing, they don't seem to be playing football at the level of the rest of the MAC. And as much as I love our conference (I'm a Toledo student), not being able to compete with other MAC schools is pretty sad.
zachwalker.net
How apropos for Kent State!
As long as there is a Second amendment, there'll be a First.
Hopefully the high school teachers for these athletes gave them enough civics so they recognize just how badly their university is behaving. Really, to tell their own students they have to give up their constitutional rights to maintain their scholarships? Now that's a discussion I'd love to have with the KS administrators: I can hear it now... "Why yes, we do think that the rules and decisions of Kent State University are more important than the Constitution." LOL
Go GO Go: EFF, FIRE, and ACLU!
ObsessiveMathsFreak said:
Patrick Henry College requires it's students to promise that. They were in a Channel 4 documentary recently in the UK, this is from the report:
I find this level of control over students life scary, even as a christian myself.
A latent existence
See this article for more information. Kent Read, Kent Write, Kent State!
You're wrong, a contract (under Canadian law, but almost everywhere is similar) a contract must be for something, have real value (consideration) for each party, be of the appropriate form for the type of contract (real estate transfers require special contracts, etc), be clear (heh right), etc.
While your signature is proof (such as it is) that you've signed something, if that thing isn't a contract then you can't be expected (legally) to abide by it.
However, many schools either don't understand this, or are banking on you not, and making you sign a code of conduct or similar and implying that it says "and I Name, agree to follow these rules as above". However, the real contract you signed with them was so one-sider they could kick your out on graduation day for an administrative error and not owe you a diploma or a dime, so you probably did agree to abide by codes of conduct already, so your signature is just proof they were shown to you.
This may surprise you but the original intent of providing internet access was not to pass around mp3's, pictures of yourself drunk, and porn (well, that last one is debatable).
And your attitude might be appropriate if those were the actions being taken by the university - banning copyright infringment and using the network for blatantly non-academic uses - but they aren't. A student athlete could be using Facebook purely for classes and still run afoul of Kent's draconian policy.
However, the way I see it is if a school is giving you tens of thousands of dollars for your education
Small potatos compared to the tens of millions student athletes bring to top universities like Kent in broadcasting fees, ticket sales and merchandising. Students whom, I might add, don't recieve a cut of the aforementioned fees, tickets and broadcasting, and are prohibited by the NCAA from holding jobs while playing for the school, so ask yourself again who's really getting the better end of the deal.
This does nto violate any aspect of the United States Constitution. Why not? The school did NOT say "You can't do this."
Methinks you need to reread your Constitution. It doesn't violate the US Constitution, but that has nothing to do with how they stated the rules.
Even if the school said "You can't say anything criticizing the school administration on school grounds", that wouldn't violate the Constitution. The first amendment very clearly begins "Congress shall make no law--". Kent State is not part of Congress, last I checked, and even those parts of the Constitution that don't explicitly refer to the US Congress do apply only to the US federal government.
The US Constitution isn't the only law in the US. It's actually more of a meta-law, that describes the limitations on federal laws. It has nothing to do with school policies.
Although I have never seen the actual facebook site, I'm getting a pretty good idea of what's it like from all this discussion...
We don't read most of the bills. Do you really know what that would entail, if we were to read every bill we pass?