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Microsoft Denies the Windows Kill Switch
WindozeSux writes "Microsoft has denied that WGA will kill pirated copies of Windows. According to Waggener Edstrom,"Microsoft anti-piracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer." Microsoft also says that WGA is a necessary part of its campaign to catch those illegally using Windows XP which leads one to think what WGA really does then."
"Because we broke power management in the latest update. We will, however, make sure Windows doesn't boot once your computer is on."
This was obvious from day one. In any deployment of software there will be bugs, and I've read plenty of incidents of WGA not recognising valid installations (or people using invalid keys for valid purchases). Even if the failure rate was 0.001%, that's still thousands of machines "killed" incorrectly. If just one of these happened to be a prominent journalist, IT decision maker or similar, the fallout for MS would be far worse than anything they'd gain by the action.
So, another hyped story killed with a modicum of common sense (and I'm certainly not the first to point this out). I thought IT communities were meant to be filled with rational people?
...it automatically sends a raid order of your premises to Tomas Bodström and the swedish police!
Three rings for the Elven-kings in the sky
Oh, that's the usual spin from the intentionally misinformed P.R. flacks (they can't tell what they don't know, eh?). Who can trust a convicted monopolist anyways???
The question is why not kill pirated copies of Windows?
This still will happen in one form or another...from crafting slimy legislation to WGA tricks MS is was and will continue to be a slimeball of a company.
If WGA phones home more than once, it is proabably up to no good. If it discovers that your copy of Windows is legal, why on earth would it need to contact MS more than once?
It may well be checking for pirated movies, songs, etc and MS may be in cahoots with RIAA/MPAA/BOHICA.
From the article:
Microsoft also says that WGA is a necessary part of its campaign to catch those illegally using Windows XP which leads one to think what WGA really does then.
WGA is not to stop *us* from pirating Windows, thats never going to be successful. However, it will prove successful against those shops selling whitebox builds with illegal copies of Windows, and it already gives a cheap (or is it still free?) option to consumers caught out like that in return for providing evidence against their supplier (receipt etc).
These are the people that need to be stopped.
"Microsoft also says that WGA is a necessary part of its campaign to catch those illegally using Windows XP"
It sure didn't stop me.. nor did it stop anyone else i know who's got an illegal copy. But it sure did piss off a whole lot of people who did pay for their copy..
MABASPLOOM!
Of cource they deny this; if they let the rumor run, trust in the company is shaken, if they confirm it, their reputation is shattered...and if they go through with it...holy hell, watch out...
Through its spokeswoman, Microsoft said that "80% of all WGA validation failures are due to unauthorized use of leaked or stolen volume license keys."
That can partially explain why WGA will not cause the "killing" of computers with XP. That said, it's a 20% of their no-corporate users (large-volume purchasers of XP are exempt from installing WGA from TFA) that will be having problems trying to get things to update and work.
I'm just speculating here, just my best guesses (so mods, keep that in mind):
1. They can't (intentionally) kill working copies now. If they killed too many legit copies from too many "false positives", they'd be slapped with a class action that would make the current EU anti-trust pale by comparison.
2. While they can't kill windows, they can divide it into two classes (legit and cracked), and thus allow the legit ones to have all the eye candy and other accessories... not that too many people really care all that much about Power Calculator.
3. It is a test program for a future version of Windows, where they can very reliably kill cracked versions of the product, once they fine-tune their ability to tell a cracked version from a legit one.
I can only hope, however, they don't bog thier products down with so much "detection code" that the app is 90% slower... like recent versions of Norton Systemworks.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Did anyone honestly believe the random blogger who said that some random Microsoft guy said that "if you don't install WGA we'll use WGA (which isn't installed) to kill your copy of Windows"!? However, it made for some great sensational headlines.
Once a record of what is stored on your computer exists at MS, it can be subpoenaed by RIAA, the government, or virtually any company involved in a law suite about virtually anything.
It doesn't matter what MS says about your privacy. If they have your information, they can't protect it from subpoena.
The only safe windows box is one that has no connection to the internet.
While WGA is flipping the kill switch, it shows a screen with a pixelated fat, bald man repetitively flinging chairs at a little computer displaying a skull and crossbones on its monitor. Meanwhile, the system volume is turned to its max so you can better hear your speakers screaming "I love this company!"
which leads one to think what WGA really does then.
Are you stupid? WGA verifies whether your copy of Windows is legal or not, on a daily basis, and reports its findings back to Microsoft. Why so often? It is done so often to ensure that you don't Ghost a genuine install to thousands of illegal machines.
Now, my question, which I asked a few days ago, is why did it take you "geeks'/dorks so long to find out about it. Surely you paranoid technologists are monitoring your Windows installs with sniffers at all times to keep Microsoft and the malware in check?
It seems like a lot of people who have pirated Windows XP just go ahead and use Windows XP Corporate (which doesn't require activation or a license key). How does MS detect a legit copy of XP Corporate vs. someone who is using a pirated copy of it?
I know of 2 major corperations that do not allow WGA to be installed on their machines because of sarbanes Oxley rules they have as well as not installing apps that report back information outside the company.
So microsoft will not risk pissing off an entire corperation sized customer by turning anything off.
Personally I wish they did such a boneheaded move. No matter what the naysayers believe it would force a switch to something else and braindead easy installs like Ubuntu and Mandriva will capture a larger amount of pc's.
The bulk of PC owners out there do not care about playing games except at places like pop-cap and other web based time wasters, they dont go shopping for software on a regular basis. They want their pc to do simple web stuff.
I have converted a large number of people over to ubuntu on their pc after scaring theim with the latest MS fud about not having WGA on there to spy on you they will get viruses and trojans ant other things instantly. So they begrudingly try ubuntu and then 2-3 months later ask me to erase their windows partition for more disk space.
Are they pissed they cant play Quake4 or the sims2 latest expansion pack? nope most people dont have a PC capable of playing them nor plan on buying one.
The low end computing power web/wordprocessing only people outnumber game buyers almost 30 to 1. And those that buy software at best buy and the likes only do so after they find out they cant do it at home already. Ubuntu gives them a button to get free software instantly and without effort so they save more money and I dont have to go support their pc on a weekly basis like I did with windowsXP.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Come on. That's what editors are supposed to do.
Mmmm.. Donuts
Well duh. It's not a "Kill Switch"
It's a "Happy Sleepy Funtime Switch!"
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Microsoft can just send their report to your local ISP daily. The FBI can pick up the Fourth Estaters. The local police can handle the software thieves.
"No, Microsoft antipiracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer," said a spokeswoman with Waggener Edstrom, Microsoft's public relations firm. That statement is barely true; Windows shuts off your computer. For example, when you click |Start| -> |Turn Off Computer|. Also, has anyone ever seen what happens when you don't activate your copy of XP? It will only boot to a safe-mode command prompt, at which point you are supposed to call MS to activate over the phone. They will tell you how to run msoobe.exe so you can enter the lllllllloooooonnnnnnnnngggggggg code that they will dictate to you over the phone. If that doesn't work, they tell you to go out and buy Windows XP. What's to stop WGA from doing the same thing? Technically, your computer would be on and running, but you won't be able to use it for anything. I guess MS is telling us the truth, after all!!
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. It only affects the people around you. Same thing when you're stupid.
The only quote in that story is that "No, Microsoft antipiracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer". That's not the same thing as saying "No, Microsoft antipiracy technologies cannot and will not stop Windows from operating."
My computer can still be on, but XP refuses to boot.
Wasn't it some "anonymous developer" who was originally quoted? I can't see how turning off copies of Windows would ever have been in Microsoft's best interests.As others have said, even a pirated copy of Windows is a working entry point into the rest of the ecosystem.
- Acting like nagware.
- Limiting functionality.
- Limiting performance.
- Limiting Internet access.
- Preventing (certain) updates.
- Preventing further apps from being installed.
If none of the above, the WGA tool may simply be used by M$ to provide information about you and your machine. If they don't think your machine is properly licensed, perhaps they'll figure this will give them the right to collect additional information on you that they would otherwise not. Hell, it's closed-source malware, written by a convicted monopolist, reporting home to its master -- who the fsck knows what it's up to?! Trust it/them? No way! Glad I'm not using Windows.I believe up until at least Me version and possibly Windows 2000 owners were allowed to install the OS on 2 computers in the family home and carry the OS over to a new mobo when owners updated their hardware. Fast forward to today.
Now, if Windows owners update their mobo's they must purchase a new OS and Home versions of Windows can only be installed on one mobo.
While MS pc Windows is still highly profitable it's no longer expanding in leaps and bounds. It may be that any forseeable increase in profits MS can see for Windows is in squeezing owners of pirated editions.
Personally as I've posted before I'm in countdown mode on Win Xp in a switch over to all Linux/BSD machines. By way of my parents buying my first pcs and my own purchases, as an individual, I've invested in MS DOS, Windows/NT and Office pro for 23 years. No more. I can motivate many people in my sphere of influence to switch to FOSS, but I can't do it if I'm still buying Windows for multimedia/games/web purposes.
If MS can access my computer on a daily basis under the guise of looking for it's stolen property than it's not out of the question that they can accesss my computer for the government. If you have Windows installed on an internet connected pc then you should have zero tolerance for having sensitive information on that pc.
New technology is often met by the buying public in a herd mentality. The model T dominated sales up to nearly 50% of all autos until near existing market saturation then, with the technology having proved itself, many variations in style and manufacture began to appear. Windows is the model T of operating systems, but the early market saturation period has passed.
If I'm right the biggest immediate threat to MS is Apple. I see Apple taking 4-8% of Windows share over the next 3-5 years.
On the desktop Open Source can take considerable market share by way of a multitude of inroads but there are many barriers to overcome.
As for me, as I finish building my new boxes Windows will be phased out. MS has so deeply alienated me that I'll willingly put in time to help fill in the gaps in productivity my switch over will incurr.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
If someone stole a copy of Windows, and that someone took home the stolen copy and installed it on his computer, your saying that they would not be able to "turn off that computer" and take back there copy of windows?? Get real people, Microsoft has the right, and the capability, to turn off all bootlegged copies of windows. (Read the disclaimer people). See what has happened is back when people had a old OS and wanted a new one, they decided to "copy" there friends CD, and burn it so they too could benefit from the new OS as opposed to buying a valid copy. Number one the person who let them burn there copy of windows and share the cd key, is breaking the law along with the person who "reused" the CD key. And the key should be blacklisted, to make a statement for the future, (if they let them get away with it this early in the game, there will be no lesson to be learned, and bootlegging will continue to be a problem. Crack down Microsoft, (plus drop the price of your OS, so the poor can use it too).. I mean come on 500 bucks, not nice Microsoft... But all in all its due to those Damn Bootleggers!!!
Oh sure they may start out rational. But then it's like Guantanamo Bay, where they've been held for four years. They may have been innocent four years ago, but because of the incarceraton, they want to kill you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDrhecqDoO8
On one of the computers at my church, the WGA Notifier came through MS Update. Fair-dos, I thought. But the church logs anonymous users in through the guest profile. You can see where this is going...
When I tried to use the guest profile, the system tray spouted an icon that said "you may not be running genuine Windows." I logged out, logged in as the system administrator, and asked why.
"The product key could not be read."
Well, do you think you'd LET guest users look at the product key so they can steal your copy of Windows, even if the PK isn't attached? But Microsoft contradicted itself, and I went home happy that I'd found a bug in Microsoft software. (I wasn't off the ceiling for several hours.)
Mercifully, an update was issued that allowed the program to check the PK in the Guest profile. But note the wording of the bubble:
"You MAY not be running Genuine Windows."
May? That, translated out of marketing-speak and into English, reads:
"Oh, dear. You might well have a legit copy of Windows but we believed our computer, so we assume you're a fake. So, we're going to display consistent nag screens until you cough up two hundred pounds to buy Windows."
Or throw the (beep) thing away and use Linux or a pen and paper.
Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
In Soviet Union neighbour calls KGB and your family disappears.
As your life now exists as information - welcome to the digital Gulag.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I'd much rather instead have some nice hackers find out every vulnerability that's possible thanks to WGA being present, and start wreaking absolute hell with everybody's computers, from DDoS attacks to discreetly installing malware/spyware/child pr0n on unsuspecting people's computers, right up to wiping half of the contents of your hard drive. Perhaps then will the masses rise up against Microsoft and say "Why the fuck have you been selling us a flawed product for years and years? Give us our money back!"
:(
Too bad the majority of malicious 'hackers' don't have any clue about the ethical potential of their skills.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Windows Genuine Advantage has never stopped me installing XP on two PCs with the same licence.
Admittedly, you have to wait 30 days before you can. But install XP, wait 30 days, and you can install XP with the same licence code and it will activate fine.
Are they making a list of serial numbers of devices and MAC addresses of the machines? I think they are, maybe I'm just paranoid.
The first thing and prolly most important to ms is this alerts noob computer owners if thier local store is selling comps with bootleg windows. And that can help catch such criminals.
Secondly and also rather important to ms it can limit the usefullness of bootleging its software.. aka it can make it alot less profitable and easy to do it.
Finaly it can tell ms just what level of spread bootlegging actauly has and if they are slowing it down or not.
"which leads one to think what WGA really does then."
No, it would lead one to wonder what WGA really does.
One would think of a conclusion, and "what WGA really does then" is a meaningless sentence fragment all by itself.
Illiterates!
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
This is not the first time Microsquash was working on a kill switch to force more sales, and had to back down due to public pressure. Last time, they were going to kill Windows 2000 and force everyone to buy XP or Server 2003.
Please tell me that there isn't someone stupid enough in the world to believe that crap you linked to. Please tell me that you were just being funny.
Yeah, I'm sure that Norton was in with Microsoft on the conspiracy when they updated their antivirus software to remove the "kill switch". Yeah, I'm sure that no one has ever clearly installed Windows 2000 after the kill date.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
If they had cause to subpoena MS's store of your information about your computer, they sure as heck have cause to order information straight from your computer via a court-ordered diagnostic. And if you did anything to the data you'd be in contempt of court. What a difference!
It's a sad day when MS actually have to go out in the press and deny a story that lacked foundation in facts in the first place.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
No, this spin is just... beyond. This is one of the funniest (and saddest) things I've ever read (emphasis mine):
In other words, WGA isn't a means of cracking down on piracy, it's a useful tool that companies can use to save money! This message has obvously been brought to you by the same type of people who try to tell everyone that Digital Rights Management is a wonderful thing because it allows you to access content.
Jesus, are people really that naive? Why can't they just say what it is—a tool to keep people who haven't paid them lots of money from using their stuff. At least I could be on board with their motives. (Being paid for stuff I do is nice.) Am I the only one who is insulted not so much by WGA's existence as I am by how stupid they think we are in pitching it?
Come on folks, think about it, Microsoft is the BSA (Buisness Software Alliance). $15,000 for each 'copy' of Windows... Bigger net, faster returns... when they just run a simple query where the ID is = and count is greater than 10, $150,000 in one shot, one visit. Now imagine a company of 8,000... They just want a mechism to get some serious cash...
User not found: Please check the world and try again.
Where has everyone gone?
Some have probably migrated to other sites, and others are probably just too tired of the endless dupage to post any more. This is what? About the 3rd story about WGA in the last day or two?
Well not only is it early Sunday morning in the US, which is always slower, but this story doesn't really lend itself to many useful comments. Beyond a small handful, everything else would just be noise.
And speaking of noise, meta-moderators ought to be more diligent in marking as unfair mods of "funny" for the same tired old worn out jokes. Also, any discussion that strays into politics or religion, when it's not directly related to the topic, ought to be aggressively modded down. No opinion has ever been changed by any of those threads. They are a pointless waste of time.
WGA apparently turns off Slashdot's CSS formatting.
I have converted a large number of people over to ubuntu on their pc after scaring theim with the latest MS fud about not having WGA on there to spy on you they will get viruses and trojans ant other things instantly.
I have been having some success convincing people to move away from Microsoft's buggy bloatware by oh-so-casually mentioning how MS installs spyware (WGA) on their computers. I got the idea when I was showing a friend how to do an MS Update (he'd never even installed SP2, yet thought his system was reasonably current). He observed how my security software prompted me for permission before it allowed Update to actually do certain things. He asked why I did not DL and install WGA. I told him that Microsoft had no right to snoop around my system and that I didn't trust MS's spyware not to send personal information from my system back to MS. I mentioned that I was getting up to speed on Linux with the intent of *never* installing Vista on any of my systems. (I, too, am finding Ubuntu to be fairly straightforward.)
The industry (of which Microsoft is a vey large part) has "the masses" terrified of malware already and since WGA is best described as Windows Genuine Disadvantage in that it does not benefit the user in any way whatsoever, I am learning to drop just the right hints and let FUD work against Microsoft for a change. Mentioning how Microsoft tries to "sneak" WGA onto the systems of unsuspecting users and how it phones how without their informed consent just confuses (and thereby scares) them more. I point out that reputable companies with solid products don't try to infect their customers' machines with spyware.
What makes this so amusing to me is that I don't even consider myself a Linux geek...yet.
"You're young, you're drunk, you're in bed, you have knives; shit happens." -- Angelina Jolie
Records stored by Microsoft will survive destruction of your computer.
It just says it will not turn off your computer. Windows will be dead but your computer will still be on.
someone will find a new crack. I agree that only very few will switch to a different OS (ever notice how the same people who will scream at the first slight on unix or mac will take ten times more shit from windows?) but I bet that if this were to happen we would see "some hacker cracked winxp in X hours after new antipirate protection" over the internet.
Now can someone enlighten me on something? I'm really not all that worried about wga but I do have two cracked XPs, one qemu image and one native isntall. I always thought that wga was the windows registery thing you get at a fresh install, the very thing that I did NOT get in the cracked version I have. So was I wrong and is WGA something else or what? And how do I avoid it? Just not update windows or what? Thanks in advance.
Tell that to David Coursey.
"SO, HERE I AM, sitting in a jet at 34,000 feet someplace above God-only-knows-where, using my computer and minding my own business when Microsoft threatens to essentially shut down my copy of Office. And at the very start of a week-long business trip, too."
And this coming from one of the biggest Microsoft schill sites on the planet.
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
for anyone who owns or has worked on oem machines, dell, hp, sony et. al. if you run keyfinder you realize that the key used in the installation is not the key on the side of the box... I like many techs you initially wipe the hard drive and install from an updated cd with the latest drives etc., and try to use the key on the side of the box, then you have a 30+ minute call/s to microsoft, where you are harangued "How many computers do you have this installed on?" If you have a dell based xp install cd (since sp1) you can install that version on any dell (i have seen a dell w/winme machine updated to xpsp2 in this manner) and not be asked for a key during the... they also pass wga.
So, I guess it's like the war on drugs; it's not that you are using a pirated copy, it's WHO"S pirated copy you use...
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
I downloaded what I thought was a song off napster back in the day that somebody had laced with a bug that rewrote my FAT during a restart that was triggered by clicking on the file to play it(Catholic Girls-Zappa) I spent the next two days hovering between insanity and grim determination to track down the malefactor to kill him. In the end I wiped the drive and started over.If it was that easy for some random shithead, Uncle Willy won't have a lick of worry.
No, Microsoft doesn't disable your computer - it just disables your ability to install patches which, given the frequency of OS exploits, is tantamount to the same thing as disabling your computer.
.001% - WGA thinks I pirated my copy of XP even though I bought it at Costco. When I disabled the "you have an illegal copy of Windows" balloon via the security panel, another little message popped up saying that I would no longer be able to download patches. I suspect WGA was unhappy because I had disabled several services such as remote registry and alerter.
I'm one of those
I can understand Microsoft's desire not to get ripped off but at the same time, I'm not sympathetic if their software falsely accuses me of being a thief and I end up losing a couple of hours figuring out what their problem is.
I am glad that M$ has cleared this up because while I am no fan of piracy, I think Microsoft has made enough money from its products to allow for a little 'free use' - for example, the laptop I am using now to type this message is using a copy of XP enabled using a keygen program and I don't see how this is likely to affect prof.*(!"$% NO CARRIER
AT&ROFLMAO
They might not be a nice company, but I hope they manage to make every single user pay for Windows, soon. I doubt they will, though, because I think they'd rather people use Windows illegally than use an alternative operating system.
In other words, the WGA won't shut off your computer. Instead, it will collect the data for a mass lawsuit against people who copied the system.
Makes sense. It IS after all more profitable, someone who you just shut down might turn to Linux instead of buying, while when you sue, he has to pay.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Considering if they deny that it will KILL your machine so it can't run Windows anymore, that's fine. But come the fall when it says "You have 30 days to purchase a legal copy of Windows or else we'll severely restrict what you can use on the machine such as calculator, e-mail support, TCP/IP restrictions, et cetera et cetera...." then they should be able to still do it. I wouldn't be surprised if this is their approach either.
Yes, it won't KILL your machine, but it'll be so restricted it won't even be worth running anymore.
Why doesn't M$ change their paradigm and look for a way to make money from pirated copies of Windows? This situation seems to be similar to the RIAA's stance on illegal downloads -- punish the user and the distributor rather than using that infrastructure in a way that would benefit all involved.
I believe that their business model is flawed. The pirates are providing FREE distribution for M$'s products. There must be a way to make money from that.
First of all, it is going on everyone's computer, not just the pirated copies. It isn't just checking once, as it should. It is checking all the time.
This is the equivalent of calling you a thief every time it checks. Listen, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that when they check you today and you are legit and then they continue to check you repeatedly, they are accusing you of being a thief.
One time. The WGA notification is not a program I will allow on my computer. I purchased my 20+ licenses. I don't expect Microsoft to make me feel, as a small business owner, as if I am a thief.
I don't care about protecting Microsoft. I could care less about them and their profit. They pocket so much of that profit anyway instead of putting it back into development.
Microsoft's Vista is nothing more than XP with a new interface paradigm. Other than that new look they have cut all the meat out of the new features so as to make it a "no go" on the upgrade path. Everyone needs to understand that. Clearly VISTA is XP with a new desktop look. That's it. It isn't worth 200-400 dollars to upgrade.
So, if they make $3 billion in profit quarterly, wheres their loss at? Where's the loss of revenue to those pirates and why should I care less about Microsoft's bottom line.
Stop calling everyone a thief Microsoft.
Microsoft is playing a game with everyone. Over the past year they have been testing, probing, feeling to see how much violation of privacy we will take. Then they devise not just WGA but WGN. The WGN was tested in other countries first because they didn't want the outcry to be too loud from the US too quickly or it would turn the rest of the world off. So they slid their WGN into the EU and Asia in an effort to ensure it got done. Then they released it in the US under the guise that if the rest of the world allowed it and had no issue with it, the US should not either.
But of course, we value our privacy. We recognize that one company siphoning off $3 billion a quarter in profits really should be turning something back to the us. Listen, Bill Gate's donations to charity keep him from having to pay huge amounts of dollars to the government in taxes. This simply allows him to keep more of his money.
I've read the figures about how much his foundation gives, what their yearly budget is. Compared to $3 billion in profit every quarter $1 billion annually (from not just his donations, but others) is nearly nothing. Does he help the people in WA state where he enjoys laws that benefit his profit? From laws that give him tax breaks? Laws that provide him with a workforce that can be forced into 70-80 hours a week without compensation for each hour of work? He gives some money to libraries, schools, etc., but he does nothing for the community.
You can see this. Look at google earth and view the area around the location where his main offices are. There are no real parks, no special services, no assistance to public tranist. Nothing.
The bottom line is that WGN allows him to force purchases by those probably too poor to purchase his expensive OS already. XP costs alot of money for some. It is due to his monopoly that allows the OS to stay as highly priced as it is. Now he wants us all to upgrade to Vista which to anyone with a brain knows that it is just XP SP3. The security features could/should be incorporated into XP considering how much money we all paid for it and how irresponsible Microsoft has been toward the security of the OS, even after 2 years where they know that spyware/malware is so bad that even their head of the department for developing anti-spyware/malware tools tell us it is impossible to resolve all the problems and that we are just going to have to reformat every so often just to keep a safe secure system.
They'll justify Vista as a security fix when everyone realizes that Vista is just XP with a new interface and a huge increase in hardware requirements forced generally due to DRM implementations
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
I've given Unix-like operating systems a chance in the past (as a desktop OS). I found that I could do most things that I wanted (programming, surfing web, mail, instant messaging) fairly well.
;)
The reason I always went back to Windows was for games and comfort -- e.g. I was lazy and wouldn't spend the time (or couldn't afford it) to figure things out.
Lately I've done more and more programming and find that useful tools of the Unix world just aren't available. Sure there are Unix tools for Windows and Cygwin, but why half-ass it?
After learning about WGA phoning home, it was enough to make me want to switch. It wasn't enough on its own--but it was the tipping point. Even if it doesn't disable anything, I don't like the idea of this software. I'm not suggesting its a slippery slope, but I'm nervous of where it may go after another few years and Vista.
There is the added fact that I will need to learn BSD for a few upcoming projects at work. Plus, there is some great power in being able to configure your system in many ways or at least have that option available to you. I always wanted to know more about the internals but didn't have the time.
I no longer play games and I will have time available come the fall. I've also decided I want a new upgrade (desktop typically last me 4-5 years).
I'm thinking I'll go with a [now cheap] A64 3800+ and put OpenBSD on it. (My current machine will run XP or Vista indefinitely, so that I may perform tasks that require it--but it will no longer be my desktop.)
Sure BSD may not be cutting edge in terms of drivers, but I don't -need- or -want- cutting edge. This should be a nice little ugprade to last me another 5 years
P.S. what graphics card provides top-quality 2D with driver support on BSD?
Because pirated copies of Windows cannot be mechanically detected. All they can detect are "allegedly pirated copies". A consequence of this subtle difference is that they may (and already do) cause a great deal of trouble for users of non-pirated copies.
I have a number of computers, all running Microsoft operating systems. Each had a legit license when purchased, and all are therefore upgradable. I've got machines that are retired but still have licenses. Sometimes I buy full licenses because I get tired of chasing the prior license down so I can use the upgrade license. I am not short of valid licenses--I'm knee deep in them. And yet, perhaps because I have so many, I don't keep a neat file of which machine has which license--I just grab this or that disk and use the attached number for reload or upgrade since they're all running the same thing and I know I'm well-covered in payments. This means, though, that there's a good chance that if a disk dies and I have to reload the operating system, I'll reload it with the same license as I'm already using on another machine even though I've paid for multiple licenses. At some point I'll perhaps organize it, but I wish I could bill back to Microsoft the cost of the time on my part that I will have to spend in order to do that.
Microsoft invests a lot in detecting people they want to menace, but they invest nothing at all in having my machines share back and forth that there are more than enough licenses going around. They don't offer me the ability to back up license info easily on another machine, so that I have a kind of raid array of local machines that know each other's licenses. Nor do they do like Adobe and let me store my licenses at their site for easy reference.
They also let their OEM customers write special disks such that each machine needs its own OEM disk to reload. I had an OEM'd disk die recently and couldn't reload it for a month until I tracked down someone to get me a replacement disk for my OEM machine--I had the serial number, but not the disk, and it wasn't enough to use a regular windows distribution plus the serial number.
And every time I want an extra feature, even something stupid like a new skin for my paperclip, it wants my install disk. Not because that's where the feature lives--it could get it off the net--but because, although it's not admitting it, it's testing whether I'm still the owner ... or was ever the owner. I find that petty.
It's cleverness like this that means that Microsoft doesn't know who its friends are. And it treats even its friends like enemies. I suspect that this will be its ultimate undoing.
What bugs me is not paying for its software, it's that the burden is constantly, aggressively, continuously, and in new and different ways to always be re-proving that I've bought their software. They give me those little stickers that go on the outside of the machine saying "certificate of authenticity" but I have no peripheral capable of reading those, so that stupid sticker does nothing more than drive up the cost of my machine... I still need exactly the right disk.
And I won't even get into the problems that come from changing a board set or moving disks around or otherwise confusing the machine into thinking you've cloned a license when you're really just doing basic disaster recovery or routine maintenance. Most readers are well familiar with this. But my point is, again, that the very best Microsoft customers are still treated like potential pirates as they navigate this space.
The real problem with Microsoft Genuine Advantage is that there's no advantage to software being Microsoft Genuine. You're still guilty unless proven innocent, with the burden on yourself to show you're not low-life scum. Having paid good money is still is not enough to keep you from getting routinely audited by the softwa
Kent M Pitman
Philosopher, Technologist, Writer
a) It's already in your PC: if you believe that, just set the system date to Jan 1st, 2008 and see what happens. /doesn't/ call home, does it? Just let your firewall prevent that; if there is something in Windows that bypasses the firewall, it's time for a class action.
b) They contact your PC and send the kill signal: Your firewall should intercept that. Otherwise, it's time for a class action.
c) Your PC calls home and receives the kill signal: Without WGA, your PC
Before long MS will be scanning your entire system for "assets" that you may not have paid for. Want to play a dvd on your machine? The system will phone home first to check your account balance before starting the movie.
The WGA is a demo to show **IAs how well the toll booth works. And oh by the way, MS will of course, retain a modest fee for staffing the toll booth.
"The ferrets, they're every where I tell you!"
Would they realy admit it?
That's what they're doing in China. I remember reading some Microsoft exec saying, "If they're going to steal software, I'd rather it be our software."
I haxe been worried about this since XP came out.
If I have a pc that runs Win 3.11 I can reinstall it at any time if I have the original media.
If a few years from now I want to reinstall XP what if the activation server is turned off?
I no longer have a valid copy. It will run only 30 days. A wonderfull way to force an upgrade to vista 2011.
I love Microsoft for doing this kind of stuff. It will only alienate people and help to further grow the Linux market... Keep it up Microsoft.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
This really perplexes me. What's the outrage amongst the geek population? You know we'll just wipe and reinstall. No more Windows update, big deal. Apply SP2 and wait out the Vista release. Steal Vista and continue, business as usual. :P
If your computer has been subpoenaed and you destroy it, then you've not avoided jail time at all, because that would be illegal.
I'd like to know what kind of legal situation would arise where it's preferable to destroy the data and go to jail instead of handing it over. You'd have to be covering something pretty bad, and forgive me for saying so, but I have no sympathy there.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
How it violates US monopoly laws to not provide you with support for a product you didn't buy?
Bugs aside, if the thing worked properly that's essentially what it would do. I have no qualms about Microsoft choosing not to provide support to people using pirated copies.
Your claims of it locking Office to the Windows platform are also unfounded, considering there's a Mac download site that doesn't require WGA...
1. Not everyone who gets a subpoena is automatically guilty 2. There are plenty of reasons why a law-abiding innocent person would choose to destroy information rather than have it revealed 3. There is nothing stopping Microsoft from handing the information over without a subpoena. 4. An individual may have the opportunity to destroy the information prior to receiving the subpoena Your hypothetical suffers from the common phallacy of "If you're not guilty then you have nothing to hide." If you don't understand why that is such a dangerous assumption then there is nothing I can say to communicate my point.
When it comes down to it, M$ is a big corporation that is on a crusade to fight piracy and more importantly, make a profit. Does it really surprise you that they will try to destroy pirated versions of Windows? If you don't like it, there are alterantives for Windows out there, so instead of complaining, switch. I don't see what the big deal is. M$ has every right to protect their intellectual property (although maybe they should me more forthcoming about what their software does). The Linux kernel has gotten to the point where most Linux distros can do everything a Windows box can do. The only reason people don't switch is because of this "difficulty" stigma that Linux has surrounding it. In reality however, figuring out how to do things in Linux require just some simple reading and patience.
Alright, I'm done ranting. The point is, yes of course a company thats job it is to make money is going to try to fight piracy in any way possible (regardless of how underhanded you think it is). But the great thing about the OS field is that there are alternatives. If you don't like how Windows is running, switch, simple as that.
thanks for bearing through that rant.
Klingon Software is not released, it escapes, inflicting terrible damage onto the enemy as it does
If you really object to where Microsoft is going with WGA, here is a good article on how to remove WGA and use an alternative to Windows Update.
The article doesn't mention how to get access to other Microsoft downloads, however, such as Windows Defender.
"Microsoft has denied that WGA will kill pirated copies of Windows. According to Waggener Edstrom,"Microsoft anti-piracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer."
Nice redirection there. The accusation is that it will kill windows (i.e. corrupt files, bios or flash), he responds as if it was about powering down your PC.
I guess that meas it does corrupt files or whatever, otherwise he would have just said it.
Information-sensitive institutions like the military, research centers, foreign governments, major corporations, etc. -- how do they feel about having to install a program that calls home and transmit some unspecified data?
but I hope they manage to make every single user pay for Windows, soon.
The thing is is you don't try to force users to pay by screwing your legitimate users. Instead of getting more people to pay you may drive them away. That's what they're doing to me. I've been buying and using PCs with Windows for almost 10 years but the next computer I get will be a Mac. If MS includes Activation in a product I won't buy it if I can get away without having it.
FalconShould there be a Law?
FTA: "No, Microsoft antipiracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer," said a spokeswoman with Waggener Edstrom, Microsoft's public relations firm.
Ah, but will it disable my installation of Windows? That's the part I care about.
She did not answer the question. She did not deny that WGA can diasble your installation of Windows. Why do we listen to PR flaks so uncritically?
"The only safe windows box is one that has no connection to the internet."
Sorry, under USC 195843 sec. 398 this is illegal.
"You're everywhere. You're omnivorous."
Here are a couple of plausible theories that make WGA's existence productive, while not infringing on anybody's rights.
This doesn't explain how or why someone sends in their Dell for service gets it back and it refuses to run Windows. Yes, an article Friday I think it was had this as one of the examples of what WGA did to a user.
FalconShould there be a Law?
So, another hyped story killed with a modicum of common sense
Common sense does not apply with an organization like M$. From the fine article:
A ZDNet.com blogger reported earlier in the week on a conversation between a Windows user and a Microsoft support staffer, who allegedly admitted that users who refused to install the WGA update would be given 30 days before their copies of Windows would stop working. ZDNet.com said that Microsoft refused to deny the report at the time. But later, Microsoft appeared to sing a different tune. No, Microsoft antipiracy technologies cannot and will not turn off your computer,
That's what I remember too, amazing.
There would have been no kill switch story if M$ had just been honest to begin with. They are not honest, so all you are left with is the facts: WGA installs itself, if you don't have it they won't give you "updates", when installed it phones home every day.
Speculation based on those facts and previous behavior is natural. For years, minor changes to your hardware would stop your M$ computer from working ether through technical failure or forced reregistration. Given their willingness to ship buggy product and previous mechanisms that "turn your computer off", a reasonable person would guess WGA would be doing the same thing. Indeed, what's it going to do if it does find a "non genuine copy"?
M$'s intentionally bad non free driver situation can be compared to live CDs. Knoppix, auto configures in less time than it takes XP to boot and still has room for a complete office suite and web server. Changing hardware in a M$ computer is tricky at best. Even if you are successful, you will often be forced to re register.
M$'s practice of forced reregistration on minor hardware changes has no parallel in any industry.
The William Gates Agent [WGA] is going to suck.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Now *there* is an outright lie. The damn thing installed itself and would've been totally silent if they hadn't forced people to agree with that EULA.
:-) Really, what did we expect them to say, though? "Yes, we'll kill all of your machines you filthy pirates!" or something?
What, precisely, considering that it's obviously running with permissions equivalent to Administrator, prevents it from having been a "format this machine" program? Or does he mean that it would require a reboot to install it?
Honestly, I expect them to slowly degrade the capabilities of the machine, not kill it.
That said, it's good in that such crap should spur Linux adoption, but bad because no company should have its customers under its thumb like that.
As long as Windows 2000 SP4 isn't turned off, I'm happy!!! :)
Laputan Machine.
denied that WGA will kill pirated copies of Windows
Because it's not going to kill pirated copies of Windows, it's going to F***ing Kill (TM) pirated copies of Windows.
Jeebuz, a thousand odd posts and nobody came up with the Ballmer.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
do yourself, and your self-respect, a favor, and make the switch. it's easier than ever these days. really.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
5% to 10% who actually switch - I think that would be a realistic number if Microsoft manages to kill all pirated versions.
It would also be a nice boost for Linux, compared to the current desktop market share that seems to be maybe 4% - a cursory Google search did not find a current statistic, so I'm going with an extrapolation here.
C - the footgun of programming languages
Any luck with your sig?
There's far less cause for it to phone home if it wakes up in the same old body. There's some complexity going on if you replace a hardware component; defining "a computer" is tricky.
I've had two PCs that had the hd die before they were a year old. The one I'm using now has had two hds die and I added another one. In a few months I may get a new motherboard. I see no reason MS needs to know anything about any of my changes.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Yea, this kind of stuff is why we get the crap we do from Microsoft. Instead of creating the best products out there they are simply worried about creating technology to protect their market share.
This reminds me of Xerox in the early computer days when they could have ruled the PC market. But no, they were simply trying to defend against the future. See where it got them??
You had better pay attention MicroSHAFT!
Microsoft should be happy there are pirates for windows...it was and is because of the pirates that M$ was able to get a large dominant market share
;p) because more ppl using the OS = more dominance = more business oppurtunities
A large user base (whether legal or not) gave M$ an upper edge to its competitors
Business and support usually goes to where the people are
Why do companies make hardware and software for Windows? -because it has a large userbase
Why do people use windows? -because it has a large current userbase (they go where their friends, families, relatives are)
(offtopic but this is similar to Instant Messenging - Why are so many ppl using AIM? -same reason, because other ppl are)
This is one of the reasons why Steve Jobs offered to give away OS X free to the $100 dollar laptop project (though it wasn't accepted
So to me it seems Microsoft is doing economic suicide by going after the pirates (aggressively anyway)
Even if they cannot (which is ridiculous), a "Security Update" via Windows Update will surely help them deactivate any "illegal" copy.
What happens when 50,000,000 PC's in China won't boot?
MS-DOS was a real boost for the infant PC industry. Microsoft hasn't done anything uniquely amazing as far as technology goes since then.
And it wasn't even Microsoft who came up with DOS. If I recall my history right at first IBM went to Digital Reseach to work on DOS. DR worked on it some then handed it to Microsoft
FalconShould there be a Law?
So that garbage gets a +2 and very good posts from AC's are marked -1? Thanks for ruining this nice site with such stupid moderation.
Too bad the majority of malicious 'hackers' don't have any clue about the ethical potential of their skills.
Hackers have an ethic, but at least you used "malicious". Now, Hackivists specifically use their skills for ethical reasons
FalconShould there be a Law?
Listen, Bill Gate's donations to charity keep him from having to pay huge amounts of dollars to the government in taxes. This simply allows him to keep more of his money.
I'm not standing up for Bill Gates, actually if you look at my posting history you'll see I don't like Microsoft, but Bill donating the money to his foundation doesn't allow him to keep more of his money no matter how you look at it. Actually he keeps less of it, tax writeoff for what is donated isn't $1+ for each dollar donated, ie you don't get more than a dollar tax writeoff for each dollar donated. You get less than a dollar for each dollar you donate, depending on what your tax bracket is each dollar donated may only allow you to writeoff 39% or whatever.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Baaaaa
Microsoft could commandeer machines in the event of a war or terrorist attack. This would not affect users of Linux and other systems directly, but would have indirect effects through denial of service to the majority of computer users. If this scenario sounds unlikely, consider that it is usual practice for governments to seize hold of communications in wartime.
See you on the pirate Wi-Fi Internet... Government-mandated spyware ahoy...
If Microsoft was willing to cut the price to the home user for their OS, there wouldn't be a need to pirate it in the first place. Set a price point around 30-40$ US for the full retail edition and you'd see a massive decrease in piracy.
-Kinsey
Think about all the really important security items that Microsoft could have made an exception for the rule.
Now think of what Redmond just couldn't hold on to any longer, and has instead released on their customers.
First don't listen to your paying customers, and then shove things upon them that they aren't even asking for.
[quote]cannot and will not turn off your computer[/quote]
This might be correct, but how about greatly impairing the use of your Operating System? How about refusing any software installs/updates or coming with an annoying popup that your software is pirated. Those too are an intrusion of my computer as is "just" calling home even without any action from their side.
They probably won't turn off your computer, they just will make sure you can't use it anymore or disable certain (important) functions.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
I don't think $100 for an OS that apparently had a 5 year shelf life of free updates (try getting that from apple) is at all bad when people pay more than half that for "LOL Shoot people in the head 199"
switcher \'swi`ch &r\, n.
A person who thinks that they are a Mac user but are really just trying to be. The mistake they make is to try to become a Mac user, when real Mac users are all about not trying to be anything and following your own rules. There is no fashion code to being a Mac user. There are no rules as to what applications you have to run.
Recent converts like you are ruining the old school Mac community because you are posers. Apple releases one OS that popularizes Fitts' law and the Genie effect, and suddenly people assume being a Mac user is all about owning a Mac. But a real Mac user is born, not made. You "switchers" are misrepresenting yourselves and the Mac platform. You're giving people the wrong idea of what Macintosh is.
switcher: shops at hot topic, thinks Firefox is a good Mac app, waiting for OS X port of PayrollPro 2000, follows any hint of a fashion trend (instead of setting them!), wouldn't know Clarus from Carl Sagan.
real Mac user: someone true to who they are, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules and they have no respect for the status quo. The ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world.
Fuck slashdot, straight up. you assholes don't have the common decency to give MS or Gates a good icon. There is absolutly nothing impartial about slashcock or it's faggot editors.
If you look here you will see that Bill Gates says: "Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though, and as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours."
You moved your mouse. Please restart Windows for changes to take effect.
Basically I'm sure the software for his Palm introduced a new networking component that has caused this. It happens with our software all the time. We have a licensing mechanism that ties into a few hardware parts of the computer - the basic HDD serial number and the MAC address being two of them which is public info. So if you introduce a new NIC of any sort, the license breaks. And of course people can go "OMFG WTF!?" all the want - but here's the deal... for those people who, for example, use a USB bluetooth dongle and plug that in and out all the time, the license breaks and unbreaks (we get them a new license which now ties to the MAC of the bluetooth dongle) then breaks again as they remove it, etc we make a new license key that ignores the MAC address.
Now guess what has happened, twice, already...
They come to us and say that they had to replace the HDD after a crash. They send in a new authorization file, we check - the MAC is the same, the machine name is the same, the HDD s/n is different. Fair 'nuff. So we should get them a new license.
Or should we? Because in two verified situations, all the end-user did was rename a second computer, stick their bluetooth USB key in that, and generated an auth for it. So guess what happens? We get them another license file for what should have been the same computer with a different HDD, but which is essentially a second computer; because the MAC identifier was the USB key, the license type is MAC-less, and so will happily run on that computer.
Instant free extra licenses - 'piracy' at its best.
So although the author may whine about a change, probably a network stack change, he has his colleagues in the industry to thank for it - because we all know it's not going to stop the users who specifically set out to get an illegal copy, but it will stop those sneaky bastards who prefer not to get caught with pants down with a known illegal copy and instead have a 'licensed' copy to show to any auditing entity.
In a perfect world, people would be honest. In a perfect world, copy and licensing protections wouldn't have to exist. Here's to all software becoming free-as-in-beer and professional coders finding a way to make a living through other means, so that everybody benefits. Just a shame that's not going to happen anytime soon.
Microsoft will much rather let you use a pirated copy of windows, than to let you use Linux.
..which leads one to think what WGA really does then
Hear that? That's the sound of grammatical rules getting flushed down the toilet.
The people willing to pay that money for shoot people in the head games aren't the same people complaining about a $200 OS that can be found for $100 (for an upgrade but then it is a $300 software if you count the price of the valid products your upgrading from) if you sacrifice some features (OEM software) and know enough to locate it for that price.
The fact is, most people pirating windows will pirate the $50.00 shoot 'em up game. Now if The OS cost $30-$40 and there is pressure or hoops to jump through then paying the $40 seems alot more reasonable then the $200 for full version or $200 for previous version plus a $100 upgrade or an insuficient OEM version that cannot be used to upgrade.
The "five years of Free updates" doesn't really matter much in valuating this. From an end user perspective, It is taking five years for them to get thier software working corectly. You don't buy a car that needs to go back to the manufactuer off and on for five years to get everything working right. End users don't see a difference between this and software. They purchased the working copy of the software not the "in development" version.
The only thing more pathetic than a PC user is a PC user trying to be a Mac user. We have a name for you: switcheur.
Remember that the Mac was designed by artists, for artists. You don't speak its language. A shiny new Mac can introduce your apartment to a modicum of good taste, but it won't make you experimental, or adventurous, or avant-garde if you weren't that sort of person to begin with. That's why its interface will always mystify squares and dweebs like you.
Don't force what doesn't come naturally. You'll be much happier to stay with an OS that matches your personality. You'll be doing the rest of us a favor, too; just leave Macs to Mac users and we'll leave beige to you.
FTA:
Through its spokeswoman, Microsoft said that "80% of all WGA validation failures are due to unauthorized use of leaked or stolen volume license keys."
20% is a pretty bad false positive rate.
meh
And what's the difference between doing that and clicking on the shield as the parent poster said he did? There isn't any. Maybe you need to hire an MSCE since you don't have a damn clue how Windows works. He was doing it the right way.
If this was your car, where your key provides you exclusive access to your property, and denies others, then I would agree that swapping keys would be of help. But, the key provides you little, if any, benefit at all. The key is their for their benefit, not yours. Imagine if their was no key; you would not need to call, at all, ever, no matter your situation. "Oooh, it felt good when they stopped hitting me with a hammer"
Our genuine customers deserve the best experience, and so over time we have made the following services and benefits available only to them: Windows Update service, Download Center, Internet Explorer 7, Windows Defender, and Windows Media Player 11, as well as access to a full range of updates including non-security related benefits.
In other words, pirating Windows may be the best way to get hold of a copy that does not violate antitrust laws.
Microsoft is a founding member of the BSA
Microsoft collects all this information about your computer, including what is being run.
Microsoft then...leaks/gives this information to the BSA.
BSA makes a list, checks it twice, finds out who's naughty or nice
(whether it is true or not)
BSA auditors are coming to town!
--
BMO
Morpheus: WGA is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your Window's licence or when you turn on your HTPC. You can feel it when you log onto the work LAN... when you go to church websites... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. ...
Neo: What truth?
Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison of upgrade cycles.
Morpheus: What is WGA? Control. Windows Genuine Advantage is a corporate-generated dream world built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this.
[holds up a photo of a bank ATM]
Neo: No, I don't believe it. It's not possible.
Morpheus: I didn't say it would be easy, Neo. I just said it would be the truth.
Awwww...Isn't that just precious, you should travel the world collecting it for them! That'd be neat!
I'm sure they'd be very pleased and offer some sort of reward, however, I don't think they'll be able to help you get that brown stain off your nose.
Perhaps the spectre of data mining would make one ponder the danger of this issue.
Similarly to AT&T handing over calling records, MS hands over records of "suspect" material to the federal prosecution pursuing a case for the RIAA.
Voila!! Mass prosecution resulting in more money for both the RIAA and the US govt.
That conspiracy theory is beside the point. Our default should always be less power for large entities and more power to the individual. This preserves liberty and prevents persecution. Corporations should be treated with as much (if not more) distrust as the govt.
And if you did anything to the data you'd be in contempt of court. What a difference!
Nah, only if you did it after getting the subpoena. Beforehand, anything goes, more or less."We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
I was secretly wringing my hands over this WGA thing...
Because here is my deal:
I bought an IBM/Leveno laptop with XP pre-installed. I promptly installed Red Hat on it without even booting XP.
I then put VMWare Workstation on it and installed XP in a host "partition". I tried to activate the copy of XP with the license key from the sticker on the bottom of the laptop but with no luck. So I got a key from somewhere (I think it was a crack or publicly availible key, I do not remember. I got it working, what did I care.).
Now WGA tells me that I am illegal.
I have tried the get-legit business by editing the registry with the proper key and what not (as suggested by TechNet articles) to no luck.
I am relatively certain that it is the problem you describe.
I have bought and paid for one license and I only use one license (just to run one Java based application bellieve it or not).
I really do not care enough to spend valuable time on this as I have way too many computers floating around the house but only one that (temporarly / VMWare runs Windows).
A promise to Microsoft: Turn me off, and I will buy another Mac just on principle.
William (Having long ago forgot the password to my Slashdot account)
Whenever I boot up my XP machine my firewall informs me that "WGA" is atempting to acces the internet, yes, I could hit "every time" option but...I just want to know. But what relly gets me is the fact that, the program I use to get the new bugy WMP, some how needs to tell something that I booted up?
;p
Sooo I just hit Deny, and well, nutin's hapend yet =)
OAH **** MY computer just exploded!
haha, just kidding
I'm a college student at a state university in the midwest.
Have you seen what MS charges college students? You only get a discount on XP Pro last I checked, and its still 99 dollars. With the special Microsoft licensing deal at my last uni, I could get it for 89.. wow the savings.
At the bookstore, I can get a copy of Windows XP for $7. With the university 10mbit line, I can download a disk w/ a keygen from usenet in a matter of minutes (a shorter time than it takes me to walk to the bookstore and back). I'm writing this on a slackware system.
Apparently you make enough that 99 dollars isn't much money. To some people, thats a fifth of their rent or half their weekly paycheck before taxes! If Microsoft shut them out, they would be forced to use an alternative OS. Microsoft doesn't want to lose poor people. I got into computing in my teens while I lived in a trailer park. I can tell you that everyone with a computer ran windows 3.1 or 95 in there. (well except me and a friend who pirated NT4) I was a freak when i tried redhat 5. Aside from the obvious hatred of trailer parks I now have, I don't see these people affording anything or wanting to switch off windows.
I have completed one year of schooling in the Electrical Engineering field. I work at a shipping warehouse for a large department store.
Next year, my monthly rent will be $296. Nowhere near the $500 you imply in your post. Also my biweekly paycheck after taxes is about $850 (working 60 hours/week).
Wanna scare the crap out of giant, monopolistic software companies such as Microsoft? Tell your legislators that you want to see lemon laws applied to things such as Microsoft Windows and Office. If their products don't work reasonably well as advertised (in other words, taking all of Microsoft's marketing hype at face value and ignoring the carefully concealed (in fine print) disclaimers, then the companies should be held liable.
Take a look at the following from the Microsoft XP EULA:
[....]
16. LIMITED WARRANTY FOR SOFTWARE ACQUIRED IN THE US AND CANADA. Microsoft warrants that the Software will perform substantially in accordance with the accompanying materials for a period of ninety (90) days from the date of receipt. If an implied warranty or condition is created by your state/jurisdiction and federal or state/provincial law prohibits disclaimer of it, you also have an implied warranty or condition, BUT ONLY AS TO DEFECTS DISCOVERED DURING THE PERIOD OF THIS LIMITED WARRANTY (NINETY DAYS). AS TO ANY DEFECTS DISCOVERED AFTER THE NINETY DAY PERIOD, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF ANY KIND. Some states/jurisdictions do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty or condition lasts, so the above limitation may not apply to you. Any supplements or updates to the Software, including without limitation, any (if any) service packs or hot fixes provided to you after the expiration of the ninety day Limited Warranty period are not covered by any warranty or condition, express, implied or statutory.
17. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES. The Limited Warranty that appears above is the only express warranty made to you and is provided in lieu of any other express warranties or similar obligations (if any) created by any advertising, documentation, packaging, or other communications. Except for the Limited Warranty and to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, Microsoft and its suppliers provide the Software and support services (if any) AS IS AND WITH ALL FAULTS, and hereby disclaim all other warranties and conditions, whether express, implied or statutory, including, but not limited to, any (if any) implied warranties, duties or conditions of merchantability, of fitness for a particular purpose, of reliability or availability, of accuracy or completeness of responses, of results, of workmanlike effort, of lack of viruses, and of lack of negligence, all with regard to the Software, and the provision of or failure to provide support or other services, information, software, and related content through the Software or otherwise arising out of the use of the Software. ALSO, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF TITLE, QUIET ENJOYMENT, QUIET POSSESSION, CORRESPONDENCE TO DESCRIPTION OR NON-INFRINGEMENT WITH REGARD TO THE SOFTWARE.
[....]
Microsoft touts its buggy bloatware as being wonderful operating system software, business software, etc. Yet (despite massive advertising campaigns to the contrary in practice) it won't guarantee that its software is going to do much of anything in particular.
Wouldn't it be interesting if Microsoft was obligated to live up to its marketing blather?
When you buy or lease new a car from a major automobile manufacturer, you can reasonably expect that it will do the things that one expects a car to do and that any wacky, extremely contraintuitive disclaimers like the one in the EULA above that the manufacturers sneak in are not going to make a bit of difference if your new car just doesn't work the way we all expect cars to work, especially if it doesn't do the things it is portrayed doing in advertisements (such as start and operate, respond to the controls, not blow up burn up or release lethal quantities of toxic gases inside the passenger compartment, etc.)
What I am suggesting is that Microsoft be far more concerned that its products do what they as touted as being able to do and not have the time to waste on crap like incomprehensible EULAs and spyware such as WGA.
It would n
"You're young, you're drunk, you're in bed, you have knives; shit happens." -- Angelina Jolie
There is a difference, isn't there?
It also depends on what you call a "kill Switch".
I can just see it now, though....
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
I'm not certain that MS would switch off features in pirated versions of Windows, but what's to stop them from doing other things to non-legitimate versions? For example, the Aero interface on Vista could be disabled for non-genuine Windows versions, the maximum screen resolution could be 1024x768, only utilising one core on dualcore CPUs, etc. That seems much more likely than switching every PC off, I believe.
For the millionth time, you do get free updates from Apple. 10.4 is a completely different OS than 10.3. You get the 10.x.y updates for free, which are the equivalent of Service Packs.
Oh, and Windows XP is just Windows NT 5.1, so Microsoft does that too. They just don't make it as obvious.
So... because the authorization program repeatedly checks your oftware, it's calling you a thief -- that's the gist of your argument, yes? I sure as heck hope cops never start operating the way you think software should. "This isn't the OS we're looking for. We checked him out one time - at least, he says we did, and there was a guy that looked like him - and he wasn't carrying anything. He can go about his business."
Software doesn't know if it has been tampered with. By your argument, WGA should set a bit in the registry or something, and never check again. When WGA validation is required, the computer sends that bit as a boolean value indicating whther it passed muster. Wow... how long would it take a hacker to crack that and pirate a full-access copy? It doesn't matter WHAT it is - a bit in the registry or a 2048-byte cryptographic key - anything that allows the computer to validate itself without MS making the remote, transaction-based check is pointless. That kind of authorization for (example) a bank account would never fly... so why should it be used for access to a restricted download or service?
For that matter, it would be easy for somebody looking to sell cheap, 'Windows Pre-Installed' hard drives to take one machine with a valid copy, let it validate itself, and and then use a disk imaging program for $50 or less to pirate the untouched, fully valididated, and ready for WGA checks copy of Windows onto a many hard drives as they want. Nobody is "calling you a thief" any more than the airport security guards asking you to step through the metal detector are "calling you a terrorist," hey are simply making sure, just as a routing security check, that you are who and what you say you are (or your OS is as valid as you/it believe it to be).
BTW, you've apparently never used Vista, or just LOVE to hate on MS, but that's quite offtopic.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Ah, the "XP didn't work properly thing".
I was referring to the upgrades to Media Player, to Movie maker, to messenger, to anti-spyware.
All of which were free from MS and the equivilents, when they even existed, charged for by Apple.
And below that: be very, very afraid.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
Apple have not given out multiple complete generations of their media player, movie maker etc for free.
10.4 is not "a completely different OS", it's what 1.0 should have been in the first place, much more so than any shortcomings that were ever present in XP build 2600.
It would just file a lawsuit against you in the your local court. Then you can defend yourself and prove that you really have a license, and WGA is wrong. It would cost you just... say five times more than license.
Of course it's completely different, it doesn't have little stripes over everything, did you even *look* at it ?
;)
Typical of those windows users to reduce everything to technical issues...
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
If you click through the "Buy Windows Now" prompt, you are taken to a page which offers to send you a real live version of XP Pro at OEM pricing. So the cheapest way to buy Windows retail (not Edu, not OEM with hardware) is to pirate it first, then pay for it later.
In a perfect world, copy and licensing protections won't exist, because they will have annoyed so many users that they will have all turned to Free Software.
I like those annoying copy protection scheme -- that's how MS is shooting itself in the foot. WTG, crooks.
In your dreams or when it blue screens.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The ridiculous thing is that almost all their piracy concerns are happening abroad.
:P
In most developing nations the only people who might buy legitimate copies of windows are the corporations that are outsourcing to them. Any software store in bombay has rows of pirated Windows CDs on sale.
Greater than 90% of all software piracy happens in places like India and China, but these are the number they quote whenever the BSA talks about how much money they are losing to piracy every year to make new laws or practices to make things difficult for their legitimate customers.
Of course, the real reason there's that much piracy in asia? An Indian programmer working for an American company who has outsourced their operations and pays very well makes about $200 a month, and on this lives as well as a programmer here in the US. Windows XP Pro in India costs more than a solidly middle class family's monthly income.
I'd sure as hell pirate it, too
Don't know about 1.0
;^D
1.0.4 maybe...
WGA that checks users' computers only once a month, rather than every day.
...
Why would authentication need to happen more than ONCE, PERIOD?
Soon, Windows will ship with a USB stick that has the Key on it, or some other hardware, that will enable the install.
Remember the old school days when you had to plug some adapter into the parallel port to get your software to work!
This is how it will go:
(user inserts Windows CD)
"Thank you for choosing Windows"
Please insert your Hardware Authentication Module (HAM)
(seconds later)
Windows has found new hardware, do you have a driver, or would you like to search the internet?
user clicks search
I am sorry, but your version of Windows has been identified as illeagal. Please contact Microsoft.
(reboot)
User gets a copy of Linux, installs and throws sells his new Windows copy on eBay.
The Warships Phone home using WGA.
WGA reports the OS isn't valid.
The ship sits dead in the harbour in a time of crisis...
On the Brighter side if the UK ever decides to attack the US we can simply have MicroSoft disable their Navy..
"Where do you want to go today ?"
far...out
Here's your solution: When you activate the license, you license against several pieces of hardware, up to 3 or so. Make it obvious, perhaps even allow choosing of the devices from available NICs, HDD, processor, optical drive, etc. Any of these licenses being valid allows the software to run. This way when someone replaces their HD, the MAC is still the same. No notice, no warning, no deactivation, no problem. If the user chooses to license it against their bluetooth network card, then they have made themselves a license dongle. Good for them. Honor it.
This may allow someone to get 2 or 3 uses from a single license, but that's completely reasonable. What it does eliminate is hassle, hatred, a whole lot of calls to you, and the ability of the software to be tossed around the internet willy-nilly. Problem F'n solved.
Home copies and sharing among friends is not a revenue killer, and in fact is a reasonable model for word-of-mouth marketing. It's the anonymous sharing of one to >10 that can hurt a revenue model. Treating your customers like enemies is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Read up on why Adobe doesn't dongle Photoshop, despite massive pirating and the burdensome upgrade pricing.
-theed
i first installed a copy of xp that did not have a valid licence for it, about a month and a half ago after the auto update system ran for a few days i rebooted to install an update and it came up with the chance to purchase a new licence or it would not let me into windows now i have a valid copy and it has time set wrong on it, microsoft announced that i has a pirate copy of windows and gave me the chance to purchase a new licence from them but after a countdown allowed me in, does this seem to be a change in the way microsoft is handling the update?
Technology will default in society to its most rudimentary level:::stupid computers for stupid users:::
You had to spend 10 minutes on the phone begging someone to allow you to use the software you purchased, but you're OK with that because they were pleasant. Exactly how bad do your vendors have to abuse you before you stop defending them?
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Heavenly shades of night are falling, it's twilight time,
Out of the mist your voice is calling, it's twilight time,
When purple colored curtains mark the end of day,
I hear you, my dear, at twilight time.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
And by the way: Bill giving away billions that he bilked from customers is not charity. You have to give away your _own_ money for it to be charity.
I really hope they're lying, and Microsoft really does intend to go through with something like this. All we would have to do is buy enough copies to get a false reading from WGA then get Apple to run it in a commercial. And if my favorite software company won't do it, maybe some pro-Linux group will.
Game over man, game over.
Haiku for you!
The switch is close my friend, and in my case it's not to Mac. Enough of proprietary nonsense.
I've got a box with Linux, and WinNT, installed but I haven't used it in years. When I first thought about getting a Mac I also thought about installing Linux as well making it dualboot. But with OS X based on BSD I can just use it. Besides I like Macs, if development had kept up and it was still in production I'd get an Amiga.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Odds are, which one will be done first. Then the new odds would be which one is done right with the fewest bugs and security exploits.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.