Wii to Launch Nov. 19th for $250

PygmySurfer writes "According to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Nintendo is going to announce today that the Wii will go on sale on November 19th in North and South America, at a cost of $250. It will come bundled with Wii Sports and channels for such things as viewing photos, as well as news and weather. Finally, Wii will also make it possible to browse the web on your television. Nintendo will also announce that 25-30 games will be published this year, as well as about 30 classic games available on the virtual console, costing about $5-10."

Comments

WTF?

[MrSvenSven]

am I the only one who can't see this article?

Re:WTF?

[stevo3232]

Nope, it's broken and has been for about five minutes. That was the original online source.

Re:WTF?

[!coward]

Nope.. Right now, all I get is:

[quote]
The page you have requested was not found. The link is either incorrect or the page no longer exists. If you believe there is a problem, please send a message to newmedia@seattlepi.com.
[/quote]

Bad link? Or did someone antecipate the /. effect and preemptively removed the page?

Re:WTF?

[stevo3232]

Nope, I think it was pulled before then.

Re:WTF?

[njen]

Try this link for info too!

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/wii-dated-and-pri ced-for-north-america-200514.php

Re:WTF?

[!coward]

Thanks.. Glad to see _someone_ is on these things. ;)

Dunno if you submitted the story, or can do it, but the link on the /.'s piece should be edited to point to the IGN story.

Re:WTF?

[theantix]

"Bad link? Or did someone antecipate the /. effect and preemptively removed the page?"

It's not a bad link, the top item on their "most read" articles is the same as the link from slashdot with the title "Nintendo gets Wii ready for holidays". It was probably written in advance of the media embargo deadline and posted too early for whatever reason, then had to be pulled.

Re:WTF?

[buswolley]

The New York Times apparently broke an embargo and released the date and price early. Personally, I was still hoping for $150. Their mistake.

Re:WTF?

[AuMatar]

I don't think its a mistake. Its 2-3 times the power of a gamecube, which still goes for $100. It comes with a game. ANd its still priced 150 under its nerest competitor, 350 below the PS3. 250 with a game is just about right- discount the $50 game and its the $200 unbundled that everyone expected.

Re:WTF?

[TheWanderingHermit]

But it's still double the cost of the computers China, in the previous story posted, is going to sell computers for.

Re:WTF?

[KDR_11k]

Correction: It's priced 50$ below the nearest competitor, the XBox 360 Core. That the Core bundle sucks doesn't matter, you said nearest.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a GC with game for 60 bucks last month.

Also I've seen a gc with 4 controllers (3 extra bundled) and mario kart dd for 99 usd.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo gets Wii ready for holidays
Company plans to put console on market Nov. 19

By SETH SCHIESEL
THE NEW YORK TIMES

In a move that may allow Nintendo of Japan to take advantage of stumbles by its main rival, the company plans to announce today that it will release its new Wii video-game console in North and South America on Nov. 19, just as the holiday shopping season begins, and that the machine will cost $250 in the United States.

Nintendo executives said this week that the company also would announce today that more than 25 new games would be available for its video-game machine this year, a substantial portfolio from several genres that is intended to help the company broaden the appeal of its console. The company plans to ship 4 million of the Wii consoles worldwide this year.

Nintendo also will explain today a plan to expand the video-game market beyond its core of young men.

Today's announcement comes as Nintendo's main rival, Sony, has been forced to delay and scale back the introduction of its own game machine, the PlayStation 3, at least twice amid serious troubles with that company's new Blu-ray Disc technology.

Last week, Sony said that the PlayStation 3 would not be introduced in Europe until 2007 and that it would ship millions fewer units worldwide this year than it had promised. The top version of the PlayStation 3 is expected to cost around $600.

Another competitor, Microsoft, has sold more than 5 million of the Xbox 360 game console since its introduction in 2005 and hopes to sell more than 10 million by year's end.

Nintendo's Wii (pronounced we) is less technically ambitious than Sony's PS3, which is why it will cost far less and be far more available in stores this holiday season. To market the Wii, Nintendo hopes to make up in innovation and accessibility what the machine lacks in sheer silicon horsepower.

Nintendo is No. 3 in the console video game market, behind Sony and Microsoft. But while those competitors have largely focused on appealing to hard-core gamers, Nintendo is now trying to appeal to a broader audience.

"Our goal is to bring gaming back to the masses," Reggie Fils-Aime, president and chief operating officer of Nintendo of America, said in a telephone interview. "You see that in our pricing, you see that in the number of units we plan to make available this year and you see that in how we are positioning the Wii to appeal to every member of the household, including but not limited to the hard-core gamer."

The Wii's major innovation is a wireless controller that the user can tilt and point to produce action on the screen. In a sword-fighting game, for instance, the player can simply swing the controller to thrust and parry with an on-screen blade; there is no need to master the complicated combinations of buttons and triggers that make many video games so intimidating to the reflex-challenged.

Nintendo intends to announce today that every Wii will come with a game compilation called Wii Sports -- including tennis, golf, baseball and bowling -- meant to show off the machine's intuitive controls. (Most consoles, including Nintendo's GameCube, do not come with games included.)

Nintendo plans to announce that 25 to 30 top-tier games will be available for the Wii this year. The most-anticipated game comes from Nintendo itself: an installment of the long-running "Legend of Zelda" series, "Twilight Princess."

Nintendo also will deliver a driving game called "Excite Truck" this year but will likely provide a minor disappointment to gamers in saying the next version of the popular "Mario" franchise will not arrive until 2007.

Nintendo intends to charge $50 for its Wii games, $10 less than the standard price for Xbox 360 titles and the same price generally charged for GameCube games.

Top games expected to be introduced for the Wii this year from third-party publishers include a version of "Madden NFL" from Electronic Arts, the sword-fighting game "Red Steel" from Ubisoft

Re:WTF?

[Lectrik]

Correction: It's priced 50$ below the nearest competitor, the XBox 360 Core. That the Core bundle sucks doesn't matter, you said nearest.

Does anyone (who understands what they are buying) actually buy the Core Bundle?

Re:WTF?

[edmicman]

Heh, my kid brother just bought the Core bundle (which means I got his old xbox! Yay for being cheap!). I doubt he fully understands the difference between the two, mostly I think it's that he had the money for the Core and not the Premium (or whatever the mega one is called). He's 16. My parents don't have broadband, so he's not going to be using Live anytime soon. There's no "home network", and he's hooking it up to a probably 10-15 yr old TV. I'm not sure how the hard drive works into things.

Re:WTF?

[twistedsymphony]

Actually the CORE bundle is definitely a strong contender against would-be Wii buyers... There are only 4 things that separate the Core from the Premium version of the 360 1. A hard drive, 2. HD video cables, 3. a headset, and 4.Wireless controller instead of wired.

Now lets look at the Wii: It doesn't have a hard drive, just like the core, it doesn't come with HD video cables, just like the core, it doesn't include a headset, just like the core, so the only thing left is the wired/wireless controller and we don't know for sure yet what the Wii will include (however if E3 is any indication they do make both versions and I wouldn't put it past them including the wired version).

Even without a hard drive you can still use Xbox Live, you can still download game updates and Xbox Live Arcade games... the only problem is that you have to fit it on a memory unit which come in 64MB and 256MB versions. Really the only thing the CORE prevents you from doing is downloading big stuff like game demos and trailers (though there's still Official Xbox Magazine discs for that), also games take a little longer to load since they have no where to cache, and you can't play Xbox 1 games (since they were all designed to work with a hard drive on the Xbox 1).

The Premium Xbox 360 version is already starting to see a $50 instant or mail in rebate in certain stores in the US, there's a huge fall price cut rumored for Japan and Europe. It wouldn't be out of the question that MS would drop the price $50 on both versions in the US.... the Core could compete with the Wii DIRECTLY and the Premium would be that much more cheaper then the PS3.

Re:WTF?

[aesiamun]

The Core 360 is only $299.99...

So it's really only $50 under it's closes competition.

Re:WTF?

[MBGMorden]

$50 under it's nearest competitor. People always forget about the basic Xbox 360 system w/o the hard drive but it's a perfectly viable option.

Re:WTF?

[Danga]

The Core 360 is only $299.99...

So it's really only $50 under it's closes competition.

Did you RTFA? The Core 360 doesn't include a game like this Wii will, so add $50-60 to buy a game with the 360 Core and it's closest competitor is ~$100 more. Also, I wouldn't be suprised if they release a Wii "Core" with no game for ~$200, so again it would be ~$100 less than its nearest competitor.

Re:WTF?

[Wdomburg]

Now lets look at the Wii: It doesn't have a hard drive, just like the core, it doesn't come with HD video cables, just like the core, it doesn't include a headset, just like the core, so the only thing left is the wired/wireless controller and we don't know for sure yet what the Wii will include (however if E3 is any indication they do make both versions and I wouldn't put it past them including the wired version).

Yeah, but it comes with 512MB built-in flash, and will take bog standard SD cards for expansion. Add an extra $40 there just to get a 64MB card so you can save games (cursing under your breath that if it used standard flash you could get 1GB for the same price).

Wii also does wireless networking out of the box. Add another $100 for the adapter on the core.

Noone's been speculating they won't include the Wii Remote. It's the centerpiece of the new system. Whether they'll include the wired "classic" controller is the only thing in the air. So, add another $50 for a wireless controller to bring the Core system up to par.

Then there's the bundled game. Add another $20 to get even a budget title on the XBox side.

That brings up to a grand total of an extra $210 to rectify the most glaring ommisions in the Core system. Of course, since we're talking two systems it's impossible to make them perfectly equivilent; the 360 is still pretty certainly the more powerful system and supports HD output, while the Wii has it's unique controller features and hints of some interesting console features (the "channels" whatever they are, built-in browser, etc).

Re:WTF?

[Eccles]

and will take bog standard SD cards for expansion. Add an extra $40 there just to get a 64MB card so you can save games (cursing under your breath that if it used standard flash you could get 1GB for the same price).

If it's bog-standard SD (and wikipedia agrees it is), I've seen 1 gig cards for $20, 4 GB for ~$60. You're a bit behind the times there.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

First learn to reply. Second responding to a post that states "no home network" and then you bring up wireless networking is stupid. Third, there is no bundleded game.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not meeting your expectation was there mistake? Sorry, I didn't realize you were the only one who was going to buy consoles come Nov. 19th.

Re:WTF?

[tepples]

But it's still double the cost of the computers China, in the previous story posted, is going to sell computers for.

True, but you need four computers and four monitors to play a four-player PC game.

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

The guy was obviously referring to 360 memory cards (required on a core 360), not the Wii's SD slot - you won't need an extra card to save on Wii.

Re:WTF?

[BinaryOpty]

You mean the Core system you need to buy a $40 memory card and at the very least a $5 Xbox Live Arcade game to play on making it effectively cost $345 vs $250? Or round that up to $20 at the very least for a used game and you get $360 vs $250, meaning Nintendo still has a $110 lead?

Re:WTF?

[Wdomburg]

... unless you run out of space or want to move saved games between machines. :) I grabbed pricing from amazon, which likely isn't the cheapest source.

Re:WTF?

[Wdomburg]

I just looked at rough pricing on Amazon. Figured I'd be kind to the XBox. :)

Re:WTF?

[Eccles]

No, it's my mistake. I thought you were saying $40 for a 64MB bog-standard SD card, and complaining it was much more expensive than Compact Flash. (There was a time a couple of years ago where this was true.) But yes, 64 MB for an XBox 360 is $40 at most places.

Re:WTF?

[dabraun]

Umm, it's $50 less than it's nearest competitor. You can't talk about Wii being a 'deal because it's a bundle' then compare it to the 'bundle' premium xbox 360. Furthermore, a game that you may or may not want is not a hard drive that is useful to many games and other scenarios.

Sure would be interesting if xbox 360 lowered it's price from $299 to $249 just in time to match, I doubt that they will do that though.

Re:WTF?

[AuMatar]

THe low end xbox doesn't count- you have to add in a game, a memory card, cables, etc. Its actually cheaper to get the high end xbox then to get everything needed on the low end one.

Re:WTF?

[SpryGuy]

Considering that I *hate* sports video games like the bundled ones (tennis? bowling? BLEH!) I'd rather spend $200 and buy my own game.

The fact that it includes the game at all is actually a turn-off for me. That's how much I hate those types of games. Seriously.

I understand they're trying to show off the controller with these things, but still. Bleh.

Re:WTF?

[badasscat]

Did you RTFA? The Core 360 doesn't include a game like this Wii will, so add $50-60 to buy a game with the 360 Core and it's closest competitor is ~$100 more.

Only the case if you actually like/want Wii Sports. This is not Mario we're talking about; it's hardly a universally appealing game. It's more of a tech demo for what you can do with the Wii controller. I personally would prefer they left it out and lowered the price.

But do you think if they had left it out that the console would be lowered to $199? No; in fact, it's probably not costing them much at all to put it in, and my bet is they're only doing so to help justify a price tag that they'd already arrived at. So it's not worth $50, or even $30 or $20. It's a budget title if I ever saw one, and it's not even worth a budget price if you don't want it at all.

In that case, then it's still a $50 difference between the Wii and 360, given that you need to buy a game for either one.

Re:WTF?

[aesiamun]

I have no interest in Wii Sports...

I will have to buy a game...as the other responder stated.

So yeah, the Wii is still only $50 less than an XBox360 core.

Re:WTF?

[Danga]

I have no interest in Wii Sports...

I will have to buy a game...as the other responder stated.

So yeah, the Wii is still only $50 less than an XBox360 core.

Just because you won't play it doesn't mean other people won't play it either so it does have value to some (probably most). Worst case scenario is you end up selling the game, I bet you could get at least $20 for it. Wii Golf actually looks pretty fun from I have seen so I will like "getting a game for free" instead of having to pay another $50.

Either way the Wii is still significantly cheaper than the XBox core and anyone who cannot afford an XBox Premium anyway and is deciding between the Wii and XBox core will probably go with the Wii since it is cheaper and a better deal (retro games with virtual console, includes wireless Wii remote and also the nun chuck, wireless internet compared just an ethernet port, has 512MB internal memory instead of none, etc). The XBox core sucks compared to the Wii.

Re:WTF?

[OzPhIsH]

Opera Browsr is NOT built in :(

Re:WTF?

[aesiamun]

Have you played the Wii? Why does the XBox360 Core suck compared to it? Please fill me in. I can buy wireless controllers for the Core, I can buy a hard drive for the Core...If I want them. The nunchuck is neat, but what if I don't like it? There is a wireless network addition i can buy for the 360 as well. XBLA offers me retro games... What do you mean no internal memory? Oh my god my XBox360 has no way of running any of the games...it has no MEMORY!!!!!

The 360 has memory...it has no hard drive and to some people memory cards may make more sense.

$50 is not significantly cheaper...

Re:WTF?

[KDR_11k]

What the hell are you smoking? Wii Sports is bundled with the system. If you read otherwise you're reading information about the japanese launch, not the US. And nowhere in the post he's replying to does it say "no home network".

Re:WTF?

[Wdomburg]

It sounds like it might end up being a free download though. It's entirely possible they couldn't commit to shipping with just because they haven't signed a final contract yet (not necessarily a bad time.. with a lot of companies it's just a somewhat arduous process.)

Re:WTF?

[TechnoLust]

I'm not saying that you are wrong in that the game doesn't have value, but I would like to point out a possible flaw in your logic. If there is no "Core" Wii, then everyone that buys a Wii will have Wii Sports, so who is going to spend $20 for a second copy? Maybe if their dog at it or someone stepped on the disc, but other than that...

Re:WTF?

[Danga]

Have you played the Wii? Why does the XBox360 Core suck compared to it? Please fill me in. I can buy wireless controllers for the Core, I can buy a hard drive for the Core...If I want them. The nunchuck is neat, but what if I don't like it? There is a wireless network addition i can buy for the 360 as well.

I was saying all of those things are INCLUDED with the Wii system for the $250 price which makes it a MUCH better deal. The XBox 360 core package SUCKS compared to the Wii package.

Re:WTF?

[Danga]

I was in a hurry leaving work and forgot to mention a few other things.

What do you mean no internal memory? Oh my god my XBox360 has no way of running any of the games...it has no MEMORY!!!!!

The 360 has memory...it has no hard drive and to some people memory cards may make more sense.

I meant the 360 core has nowhere to store game data (since like you said it doesnt have the HD) compared to the Wii shipping with 512MB of memory that the user can use to store game information. Some is always better than none no matter what you may say.

The nunchuck is neat, but what if I don't like it?

Then don't use it, at least it is included in a system that is inexpensive to begin with.

$50 is not significantly cheaper...

It is significant when you take a second to realize that is adding 20% more money on top of the price of the Wii PLUS the biggest kicker is you would have to pay even more to get the same features. Lets just see how much more by checking prices at bestbuy.com:

1) 64MB Memory unit (since you said you would prefer those over the HD) $40
2) Wireless controller $50
3) Component Cable $40
4) Wireless Network Adapter $80
5) Cheap game $20

Hmm, looks like that initial $50 difference would be closer to $280 to get close to but still not equal functionality (only 64MB memory compared to 512MB). Now are you going to say paying over double the price of the Wii is not significantly cheaper?

Did that fill you in buddy?

Re:WTF?

[aesiamun]

I don't know how you make it through life acting like an arrogant prick. But I will concede and pretend that you didn't just talk down to me like a spoiled little fucker.

Re:WTF?

[Wdomburg]

Actually, the comment I replied to said nothing about no home network. That was a prior comment to the same parent. And yes, there is a bundled game. It's stated in the press release, reported widely, and advertised on the boxes in several pictures of the retail box.

Not actually sure what "first learn to reply" is supposed to refer to.

Re:WTF?

[Danga]

I don't know how you make it through life acting like an arrogant prick.

I am not arrogant, I am actually quite humble. You were the one who was acting like a prick when you said "What do you mean no internal memory? Oh my god my XBox360 has no way of running any of the games...it has no MEMORY!!!!!" when you knew I was talking about user memory to store game information, not main system memory.

But I will concede and pretend that you didn't just talk down to me like a spoiled little fucker.

Do you remember when you asked "Have you played the Wii? Why does the XBox360 Core suck compared to it? Please fill me in."? You asked me to fill you in and I trounced you. I was originally clearly describing how the Wii is a better usage of money at $250 compared to the XBox 360 core at $300 and then you go on a rant about how you can buy all of the things the Wii includes for that $250 as accessories for the 360 and you even ended saying "$50 is not significantly cheaper...".

Hmm, arguing against me in an arguement about how the Wii costs less and includes more saying you can buy all of the stuff not included with the 360 as accessories where the total price of the accessories ALONE is almost the price of the WHOLE Wii system... I must say you are quite the dumbass.

Good day...

GNAA CLAIMS RESPONSIBILITY FORASASINATION OF IRWIN

[Anonymous Coward]

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Mixed feelings

[Dragon of the Pants]

I was hoping for sooner and cheaper, but oh well. I'll try to buy one on launch.

Re:Mixed feelings

[Phisbut]

I was hoping for sooner and cheaper, but oh well. I'll try to buy one on launch.

The way I see it, it just gives me more time to save money to buy it with extra remotes and a couple of games.

65 days and counting...

From IGN

[Phaed]

Since the original link seems to be dead - http://wii.ign.com/articles/732/732669p1.html

Re:From IGN

[stevo3232]

See also:

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/14/nintendo-japan-c onference-not-so-liveblogging/
http://www.famitsu.com/blog/express/
http://gemaga.sbcr.jp/
http://www.irwebcasting.com/060914/01/
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6157572.html?tag=brea king_news;link
http://gonintendo.com/?p=5583

Re:From IGN

[ImaLamer]

I was worried that this was just a tease. I'd like to see it for $250, I might even get it to keep the 360 company for that price. Not much to throw at a device that promises so much - however I've just built a PC for about 800 USD that has most of those features except the sweet control wand. You know, I do have one of those Gyro mice; anyone wanna write me a WoW addon? Mouse gestures end up being similar.

Re:From IGN

[Hacksworth]

The original link is dead because it's inaccurate. Might want to correct that.

Re:From IGN

[oc255]

I could see mouse gestures with the wiimote, but only as an aux device. Maybe turn the wiimote like a double-saber for a defense stance (warrior), or whatever keybindings. I'd have to give this some more thought, but both hands are on the keyboard and mouse. Having a third device would be like having a glass of water, you kinda interact with it but then put it down quickly when action heats up: "oh crap! [put glass of water down] here comes a boss! [both hands on keyboard]"

I think the release of the Wii into the Wiild wiill inspire some innovation in human interface devices.

Re:From IGN

[PhoenixOne]

Your $800 PC plays the new Wii games? That's really cool!

Me, I buy game consoles to play the games that come out for them. Anything else they add (web, TV, chat, DVD-playback) can be a cool bonus, but doesn't factor much into my choice.

Wiiiiiiiii

[njen]

Sold! Let's get physical in the livingroom...

possibilities

[macadamia_harold]

Finally, Wii will also make it possible to browse the web on your television.

Cool, because you know, that wasn't *possible* before.

Re:possibilities

[honkycat]

and we all know that the web browser saved the DreamCast...

Re:possibilities

[VirusEqualsVeryYes]

Wasn't it already announced that Opera had created a version of their browser for the Wii?

Re:possibilities

[aichpvee]

Yes, and already announced that Wii was going to ship with it on the flash drive. Who wants a browser on their tv anyway? It sucked on Dreamcast and it's going to suck on Wii.

Re:possibilities

[idugcoal]

I think the word "finally" was used more in a "closing, final entry in a list of features" kind of way, rather than in an "at last, the feature the world has been anxiously awaiting but never before seen" kind of way.

Re:possibilities

[PygmySurfer]

That's exactly what I meant :)

Re:possibilities

[shird]

Yes but the OP emphasised *possible*.. as in, now its *possible* to browse the web on your TV, all thanks to the Wii.

Its nitpicking.. but probably.. "finally, the Wii will also have the ability to browse the web on your TV" is a bit clearer.

Re:possibilities

[SharpFang]

I wonder what kind of text entry device/feature would it have.
Opera + Java + Mindterm and you have a decent text terminal. Or java VNC client and you have a graphical terminal. (but likely the keyboard will be about the same as name entry in nintendo games, suuuucks!)

Still, imagine the total jawdrop of your friends as you start playing PC games on your WII (in fact on the remote PC, importing the display). Just for nerd points, worth it.

Re:possibilities

[PygmySurfer]

Isn't that what editors are for? To check facts, grammar, etc.

Oh wait, this is slashdot.. :P

Re:possibilities

[CronoCloud]

Firefox on an HDTV is another story. Heck, even Firefox on bog-standard NTSC wouldn't be a bad idea.

Course, you'd need a PS3 to do that, or a PS2.

Re:possibilities

[CronoCloud]

See that's why I'm telling people that the PS3 is like a trojan horse... Linux. and USB

It lets you do anything. Web Browsers, VNC, SSH, Nethack, GIMP, dosbox, Basilisk II, Abiword. You should see people's faces when I show them what the PS2 Linux kit can do.

The PS3 is the same...only better.

Re:possibilities

[Gizzmonic]

You should see people's faces when I show them what the PS2 Linux kit can do.

I see them...looking away. Checking their watches. Making a mental note never to mention this "Linux" thing again. A few minutes later, adding a mental note never to visit your house again. As they ride their bike home, they wonder how they will avoid you at junior high the next day.

Re:possibilities

[aichpvee]

Have you ever used a web browser on an NTSC set? It sucks. Doesn't matter what browser you're using. Firefox would fair no better than Opera, though it might be marginally better than the DC browser just because that was lacking some key features. At 1080p or greater it shouldn't be a problem with an HDTV, but what's that got to do with the SD-/ED-only Wii and Dreamcast?

Re:possibilities

[CronoCloud]

As a matter of fact I have used browsers on NTSC, former WebTV uers and I've got a PS2 Linux kit with video output set for NTSC. 640x448 is fine, most websites display fine at that resolution. There's more scrolling of course, no big deal.

What's that got to do with the Wii/Dreamcast? I was making the point that if you want to browse with your console, the PS2 and PS3 would be better choices than the Wii or Dreamcast.

Re:possibilities

[SharpFang]

Nnnah. Hack value cut by half or more due to using manufacturer-provided toolkit. Hack value is doing stuff on hardware not meant to do this stuff. If there's linux toolkit for Playstation, no, thanks, I'd rather get a PC.

19/11

[BadAnalogyGuy]

In 1911, November 19, the OPP fraternity was founded at Howard University (where else?)

Other than that, Cool! I hope someone I know stands in line to get one, cuz you know I'm down with OPWii.

Further Coverage

[PyroMosh]

Joystiq has the closest I can find to live english coverage. There's also a live stream of the conferance, however it's just coming up 403 for me. Perhaps they're only letting .jp IPs through?

not sure i believe the article quite yet

[Frag-A-Muffin]

The article came out before the Japanese conference. (Which is happening as I type this) They're live blogging it over at kotaku

I'll believe it when they Iwata announces it.

Re:not sure i believe the article quite yet

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're saying the New York Times (Seattle PI is only syndicating the article), who wrote the piece, is not a trustworthy source. Way to go.

Re:not sure i believe the article quite yet

[earthbound kid]

Famitsu is live blogging it. It's going for ¥25,000 on Dec. 2, over there. I want to doubt it, but it looks like the Seatle/NYTimes article is accurate.

Re:not sure i believe the article quite yet

[Anonymous Coward]

What? You actually believe a Japanese company will launch a Japanese console in Japan after America? One that, history shows, release Japan first, US second and Europe 3rd? Given that the wii site is up and running and states 2nd December for the Japan and *nothing* for any of the other territories, I'd give the Seatle/NYTimes article a miss.

Re:not sure i believe the article quite yet

[Echnin]

The DS was released in the US before it was released in Japan. Was released in November 2004 in the US, and Dec. 2nd in Japan.

Re:not sure i believe the article quite yet

[earthbound kid]

*Shakes his head*

"Another victim of Reggie's penchant for kicking ass and taking names."

I am impressed

[The_Abortionist]

At first, I was disapointed with the price tag of $250. I was kind of hoping that Nintendo would pull a surprise with $200.

But I have to say that the bundle is rather exciting and to me very much worth it.

I am also glad the old games are not $25, although $2 might have been more appropriate, especially since some people are gonna want to collect them.

Re:I am impressed

[geminidomino]

Unfortunately, if they don't offer an unbundled one, they're pulling the same sort of market-whoring as the Xbox did.

WiiSports isn't worth $50 to those who don't like sports games.

Disappointing.

Re:I am impressed

[MBGMorden]

They're not charging you $50 for it though. Likely they're just writing off the cost of developing that game as a promotional cost of the system (basically it's an advertisement), and tossing in a $0.25 disc with the $250 system to sweeten the value. If they didn't include the game and still wanted to turn a profit I doubt you'd see the price of the system drop more than a few dollars (and Nintendo is one of the few companies that has consistently turned a profit on it's console hardware; it's that type of strategy that keeps them financially stable even when they're not on top).

Re:I am impressed

[geminidomino]

Except when you look at the Japanese version without the bundled crapgame, it's about US$212.

I suppose there's also the matter of getting an extra controller which can make it somewhat tolerable, but this is still a really poor choice of default bundle.

Re:I am impressed

[Ender Ryan]

The Japanese price also includes tax. So, if you subtract the tax, your probably at roughly $200 US. At $200, I'd have snatched on up with Zelda as soon as I had money^Wapproval from the wife, and it was in stock. Now, Wii + game (because the sports bundle is 100% worthless to me) is over $300, which is a bit much.

Still not expensive, but not quite in impulse buy territory.

I'm still a little surprised Nintendo went the shovelware route, after they had been making all the right moves to generate buzz for this thing.

Maybe they just didn't want to appear "cheap."

Wahoh!

[7Prime]

Interesting, I predicted the bundled Wii Sports just earlier today. When I started thinking about it, the idea of $250 with Wii Sports didn't seem too bad, provided a controller and nunchuck (which is still remains to be seen, as I can't access the article), this may lesson Wii sales SLIGHTLY, as many people were starry-eyed with the $199 price tag (myself included), but I think it might be a better bet, in the long run, for Nintendo to release it with a game of THEIR making that centers around the controller, so that the first experience people will get with the Wiimote is a very solid one. I'm a bit dissapointed to have to wait another 2 months, but it'll give me time to finish Final Fantasy XII at least. And it's just in time for the Thanksgiving weekend. Strangely, it's positioned to be released a week after the PS3, which I think is a GREAT idea, since it will basically give them a week of free press (from Sony) and advertising, and then drown the PS3 the next week.

Re:Wahoh!

[Wind_Walker]

Bah, you were just copying me. I remember that discussion this afternoon =P Anyways, Nintendo met expectations here. They came in with a price under every other "new" console on the market, and while the launch date is a disappointment (didn't they promise to be out before PS3?) the bundle of Wii Sports is a nice surprise. $250, eh, more expensive than I would have liked, but I understand their pricing.

To me the biggest news is that the Virtual Console will be available at launch, with 60 titles by 2007, 10 new titles per month. Plus they will have online web browsing (likely Opera, like the DS browser) and some sort of music player - details were sketchy before the Seattle PI took it down.

Seems like Nintendo is leaping into Online life with the Wii. I hope they do well. But for the love of $DEITY, TELL US IF WE GET THE NUNCHUK ATTACHMENT!!!

Re:Wahoh!

[7Prime]

Things are starting to not add up. A Sunday release? 2 days after PS3... that seems EXTREMELY risky to me, if not foolhardy. Plus the fact that the article was taken down, this could all be pure speculation. I'm going to guess that the $250 price tag is correct, but I kinda doubt the date is, something's just fishy, the next few hours will probably tell.

Re:Wahoh!

[Wind_Walker]

Replying to your own post is bad form, I know, but WHOO HOOOO!!!! From Joystiq:

2:06 a.m. EST [update 10]: The press release is up. It lists the contents of the Wii box: Wii console, Wii remote (w/ strap) Nunchuck attachment, Wii AC adaptor, Wii A/V cable, Wii console stand(?), sensor bar, sensor bar stand and two AA batteries.

They neglected to include Wii Sports, but that's ok. Everything I wanted, even if the price is $50 more than I hoped. I'm pleased with Nintendo.

Re:Wahoh!

[Wind_Walker]

The post-PS3 launch does seem a bit odd, since they had previously stated that they would be at market before the PS3. It could be that Nintendo saw the problems Sony is having with meeting production quotas and having to slash their deliveries, and are banking on something like....

Tom Tucker: "Our top story tonight, more video game news just two days after riots destroyed many gaming storefronts from the unexpectedly horrible launch of the Playstation 3. Diane has more, Diane?"

Diane Simmons: "Thanks Tom. Wii. Sure it sounds like a penis, but what else is it? It's the new Nintendo console and it's causing quite a stir. We go live to Asian reporter Trisha Takinawa for a report"

Trisha Takinawa: "Thank you Diane. Nintendo released the strangely-named console today to rave reviews. As you can see here, waving around this long slender shaft causes action to occur on-screen. It's quite a reversal from the usual manner of things. Retailers report they have plenty of Wii to go around, and that it's something people just can't wait to get their hands on. Personally I bought two and will be using them tonight in the privacy of my bedroom. Tom?"

Glenn Quagmire: "Giggedy giggedy giggedy."

Re:Wahoh!

[PygmySurfer]

A Sunday release? 2 days after PS3... that seems EXTREMELY risky to me, if not foolhardy.

I dunno about that. Sony's not going to have many units, and they'll likely sell out. Nintendo will be there to comfort those poor brokenhearted folks who didn't get their PS3.

Re:Wahoh!

[modeless]

Seems to me that Wii sports wouldn't really shine without a 2nd player. They ought to ship 2 controllers in the box. Then they could even make games that are meant to be played with one controller in each hand.

Re:Wahoh!

[7Prime]

Now I'm totally convinced this is misinformation. They just confirmed that Wii Sports will NOT be packed into the console... bottom line, the date and price have not been announced yet. Notice that this information was NOT part of the actual translated press release, and should not be trusted. The very fact that they have messed up this means that it is unreliable.

Re:Wahoh!

[Wind_Walker]

I have a feeling that we'll find out very very different released in Japan and the other territories. The Seattle PI article seemed very reliable and sourced Reggie himself in a phone interview. I have a feeling that they're both right.

Japan gets a $200 console with one controller, North America gets a $250 with 2 controllers and Wii Sports to help "sell" the common people on the system.

Either way, I'm going to bed. This will all be sorted out by 11am tomorrow morning.

Re:Wahoh!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wii will use the Opera browser.

They may have missed the PS3 launch by 3 days, but this is a real launch. You can't compare 500.000 PS3 launched in two countries with a world wide launch with enough consoles for everyone. Looks like Sony had to rush to be "first".

Re:Wahoh!

[chrismcdirty]

Gamecube launched November 18, 2001, which was a Sunday. And I believe it was within a week of the Xbox release, too.

Re:Wahoh!

[buffer-overflowed]

Unfortunately, the PI article only listed one controller.

Ahh well, we'll find out for sure in about 50 minutes. Time to get ready for work.

Re:Wahoh!

[Khuffie]

Nintendo always launches their consoles on Sundays.

Re:Wahoh!

[Mr. Sketch]

According to http://wii.ign.com/articles/732/732669p1.html:

Nintendo's Wii console will come packaged with one Wii remote, one nunchuck attachment, an AC adapter, an audio/video cable, a sensor bar, sensor bard stand, a Wii console stand and two batteries. The US package will also come bundled with a copy of Wii Sports, a compilation sports game that best shows off the mechanics of the system's unique controller. Wii Sports features tennis, baseball, golf and previously unannounced bowling and boxing games.

Re:Wahoh!

[freehunter]

Nintendo always releases on Sunday, so Best Buy and whatnot can feature it on their Sunday ads.

Re:Wahoh!

[ronanbear]

Sunday's a great day to launch a console. Launch on a friday morning and you have to miss a days school or work to get one. You can't really camp overnight either that easily. A sunday on the other hand allows the die hards to camp out 2 nights. Sunday mornings are really quiet times in the shops which means that the Wii gets all the attention. Sundays are slow for news so they get a lot of media attention (and big stories in the sunday papers).

Nintendo have announced that they intend to sell 4 million Wii by the end of the year. Ideally you want a shortage without putting off customers. Especially if you want to sell 4m. Sunday is also good for that. Only 1 day of weekend shopping and before retailers can get their second wind and have a chance to restock.

Having a launch this close to Christmas is really hard on retailers. They have to guess demand and usually you don't get a second chance to get in stock if demand spikes. Retailers are stuck either buying a huge stock and risk having a huge inventory of unsold consoles (losing a fortune in the process) or they might only get a few in and watch helplessly as customers go somewhere else. You never know if those customers (who came to you first) are going to come back.

Re:Wahoh!

[AndyG314]

And it's just in time for the Thanksgiving weekend. Strangely, it's positioned to be released a week after the PS3, which I think is a GREAT idea, since it will basically give them a week of free press (from Sony) and advertising, and then drown the PS3 the next week.

I wouldn't be supprised if Nov 19 ended up being ahead of the PS3 launch, with all the trouble soney has been having, they may end up pushing back the date. 250 is more than we were hoping for, but it does come with a bundled game, though admittadly one I have no interest in. One thing that does supprise me is the dec 2 japan release date. Maby the big N figures they have Japan in the bag, and want to ship as many units in the US as possible, to get a strong foothold. Who knows...

My thoughts

[LokiTD]

I don't think this article was worth posting. First, it states it as fact in the headline, which is yet to be proven. Secondly, it was a Seattle PI report on a supposed NYT report. Why is this a good source? Just wait for the morning.

Re:My thoughts

[Ryokurin]

The NYT's website will not update until 4:30am which as of this post is still is only 2am Eastern.

Re:My thoughts

[finiteSet]

Secondly, it was a Seattle PI report on a supposed NYT report. Why is this a good source?

It's a NYT article published in the Seattle PI. Nintendo's US headquarters is in Redmond, WA. Why shouldn't a Seattle paper post an article of relevance to the local community? I'm not saying that I personally have any facts to support or contradict the content of the article, just that nothing seems inherently fishy about it.

Daily Nintendo trivia: Nintendo is also the majority owner of the Seattle Mariners.

Anybody really interested?

[HatchedEggs]

Is anybody really interested in buying a Wii? When I was younger I had Nintendos.. but these days I'm just not as drawn to their products as I am to PC and X-Box (possibly PS3). So, is anybody really excited about this product release or is Nintendo going to grab minimal market share with this console too?

Re:Anybody really interested?

[HiRoll3r]

You must be new around these parts.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[AlexanderDitto]

You must be new here.

Seriously, have you been on Slashdot for the past year? If not, I'll get you up to date:

Nintendo fanboys have concluded that the Wii will cure cancer. This is a definite possibility, as it's awesome levels can be measured with a Geiger Counter.
Sony has decided to shoot itself in various appendages so many times, it now not only lacks feet, but legs, arms, and a distinguishable face. PS3s will still sell out. Sony fanboys cry a little on the inside, wads of $600 dollars slipping through holes in their pockets.
Microsoft twiddles its thumbs, whistles, and eats a kitten.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[HatchedEggs]

Nah, I've been around a bit.

I'm glad there are so many fanboys, but I really wasn't all that impressed with it. Well, besides the WiFi and what not.

Ah well, I guess we'll have to wait and see what kind of sales it has.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[AuMatar]

I'm utterly uninterested in the xbox360 (games suck, xbox had all of 2 games I wanted, and I don't give money to MS). The PS3 is priced around 2x what I'm willing to pay for it. The Wii is the only one doing anything new, and the virtual console alone would sell it to me. Most of my friends who game feel the same way.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo fanboys have concluded that the Wii will cure cancer.

If you just say it like that without any explanation then it sounds silly. The compelling logic is: look, the Playstation 3 is going to be really expensive and I don't need a blu-ray drive anyway and the Wii has a different controller (which may be good or may be crap) and the name isn't that bad once you get used to it, therefore the Wii will cure cancer.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Korin43]

No no no.. The Wii name is still stupid. What makes it good is that: 1. It's $350 cheaper than the PS3 2. It has a Wiimote (which is fun to say and almost makes up for naming the console the Wii) 3. I'll be able to play old NES games without 5 adapters 4. It's not made by an evil company - Does anyone still like Sony? 5. Oh yeah, and it's $350 cheaper than the PS3 Note that the 360 isn't even worth factoring into this because it's already shown that it's an overhyped piece of junk.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[10Ghz]

I'm definitely interested in the Wii, and I'm no fanboy. I have never owned a console (apart from the Philips Videopak I had as a kid). Why the Wii, and not PS3 or Xbox? Well, where is the innovation in Xbox and PS3? They seem to be the exact same stuff as their predecessors were, just with prettier graphics. Higher resolutions and more polygons does not equal "innovation". And Sony has been screwing up everything recently, starting with the rootkit-fiasco right down to the PS3-pricing. Because of those reasons, I will steer clear of PS3. Xbox is boring as well. And they are both big machines that run hot.

Now, the Wii.... The price is right, and it actually seems INTERESTING. And it seems that it will have games that even the Mrs. could enjoy. So which to get? PS3 or Xbox which are exactly the same as consoles before them were, the games are just shinier. OTOH, the Wii is quite cheap, and they are actually trying to do something new with it.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Anonymous Coward]

I never owned a gaming console in my life, the Wii is the first console I ever considered buying.
Why would you buy and XBox 360 or Playstation 3, their over priced and the emphasis seems to be on graphics and not game play.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is anybody really interested in buying a Wii? When I was younger I had Nintendos..

When I was a child I had Nintendo, too. Later I went for a PlayStation because I was in a phase where my personality was developing and the games made me feel more adult (I guess that's your point).

Today, I'm 33 and don't give a shit about feeling adult. To tell the truth... I almost could wet myself in excitement. Wii simply fun dude, I playtested it, and it is fun to hold that controller and play stuff like Mario Party, Metroid (AWESOME!!!), ZELDA (WAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!), ...

I guess I'm old enough to enjoy Nintendos again ;-)

So, is anybody really excited about this product release or is Nintendo going to grab minimal market share with this console too?

What are you? What the hell are you???

Re:Anybody really interested?

[SharpFang]

I'm just not as drawn to their products as I am to PC and X-Box (possibly PS3).

PC is a league of their own. You either play games that are 8 years old, or invest at least $1000 up front to be able to play the newest ones. Sure it's upgradable, it knows lots of tricks and can do more than XBOX360 and PS3 taken together.

PS3 and XBOX360 both run on sequels, remakes, more of the same, with better graphics. No innovation, nothing new. Out of 10 XBOX titles scheduled for release date, 9 were sequels. Sony doesn't plan any non-sequel non-exclusive content for PS3. You're going to spend lots of money and get nothing new in exchange. Just refreshes, remakes - BORING stuff.

Nintendo is currently the only one to include actual qualitative difference, not just quantitative. Instead of more polygons, higher CPU speed, higher framerate, more storage on media, higher resolution - nothing new, just more of the old - Nintendo introduces completely new concepts. New, different kinds of gameplay. New, different controller. New game genres!

It's not just an incremental change like others. It really is a revolution.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Anonymous Coward]

PS3s will still sell out

Because, in yet another misunderstanding, it turns out Sony is not shipping 500,000 units for the North American launch, but only one (1). They expect it to sell 500,000 times on EBay, back and forth between speculators, until a gamer finally gets their hands on it.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[buffer-overflowed]

In many of the more advanced civilizations on the planet Earth, the Wii has already supplanted the great Sony Playstation 3 as the standard repository of all video games, for though it can cause tiredness and it's graphics are not as advanced, it scores over the more pedestrian console in two important respects.

First, it is significantly cheaper; and secondly it has the word Wii printed in large friendly letters on the box.

*Appologies to the late, great Douglas Adams*

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Viol8]

Can't say I've noticed much innovation in Nintendos kit recently either to be honest. Certainly the launch software seems to be endless pre-teen drivel with the occasional "adult" game title thrown in as a bone to the people who actually have the money to spend. If its true then a sports title would be a change for Nintendo but it wouldn't surprise me if its actually something like "Marios Egg and Spoon Racing challenge" or similar childish junk.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[10Ghz]

"Can't say I've noticed much innovation in Nintendos kit recently either to be honest."

Well, the entire system seems to be built around the wiimote. Sure, we have had controllers with motion-sensing before, but they have always been a secondary features, a gimmick if you will. In Wii, that is the defining feature of the system. And that fact alone is enough to set Wii apart from PS3 and Xbox.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Viol8]

Can't say I've noticed much innovation in Nintendos kit to be honest either. Gamecube, N64? Where was the innovation in them? And then there's the software. Who wants to lay money on "Wii Sports" actually being "Marios Egg and Spoon Racing Challenge" or similar childish junk that this company consistently dredges up for its console launches? Conveniently forgetting that these days the people who buy consoles are not 12 years old. Perhaps in japan 20-somethings are still into cartoons (Manga anyone?) but in the west we generally want something a bit more adult, and Nintendo rarely deliver on that initially if at all.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because ofcourse, sequels is something that Nintendo never heard of..

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Anonymous Coward]

Enjoy your short bus versions of Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, Jesus the list goes on and on. At least Microsoft got it right. It's not their fault most Japanese developers have xenophobia. I weep for Japan if the PS3 fails.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[10Ghz]

"Gamecube, N64? Where was the innovation in them?"

Beats me. What those particular consoles has to do with Wii, is beyond me, though.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Aladrin]

I like my 'overhyped piece of junk.' I'm actually having a lot of fun with it. (I bought it a couple weeks ago.)

And I like the Wii name. It's short, easy to say, very easy to remember, and quite a bit different than the usual 'game cube' and 'play station' type of crap names. Even 'x box' is stupid. You don't see other high-end products named like that, do you? "I'm here to buy a Lexus FastCar." No. I'm glad Nintendo put an end to the stupid name-it-what-it-is scheme. (Even if they did kind of start it, with 'Nintendo Entertainment System."

And I'm one of the suckers that will end up buying a ps3, also. Not at launch, because there won't be any games I care about. But as soon as they come out with a couple really good RPGs, I'll find myself with a ps3.

Wii, thankfully, will have a ton of fun, unique games at launch. I'm very much looking forward to getting a Wii, and I'm hoping I'm wrong in thinking that it's going to sell out everywhere.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[grumbel]

N64?

Aehm, N64 had the first true 3D jump'n run (Mario64), first game with lock-on fights (ZeldaOoT), analog-stick, rumblepack, dedicated controls for the camera and tons of other stuff. Its probally the most innovative console around since the beginning of console gaming.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[SharpFang]

because sequels shouldn't exceed 50% of available merchandize.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Borland]

Why the Wii, and not PS3 or Xbox? Well, where is the innovation in Xbox and PS3?

As far as I know m'boy, 3d mice have been around for awhile. It's new to the console gaming scene, but not innovative. We are not talking sprites to polygon transformation.

In other news, the DS is not the first piece of hardware to have a touch screen or wi-fi either. It just applied them better for gaming. All three consoles just evolved, they are not the product of intelligent design.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[spiderbitendeath]

Hilarious, I'm sure Douglas Adams would have approved.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[10Ghz]

"As far as I know m'boy, 3d mice have been around for awhile."

I know, but we are talking about CONSOLES here. And while there have been motion-sensing controllers before, they were basically just gimmicks, and not the defining feature of the system.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because ofcourse, sequels is something that Nintendo never heard of..

Nintendo does make sequels, no one is going to deny that, but do they make nearly as many as some other companies? Nintendo, usually, produces 1 of each of their major franchises in a particular generation with the ocassional second one; companies like Square-Enix (Final Fantasy X, X-2, XI, XII), Rockstar (GTA 3, GTA: Vice City GTA: San Andreas, GTA: Liberty City Stories) and what not tend to make several (3 to 4) of the same game in a generation.

The depressing thing is that even with all the sequels Nintendo makes, there are still tons of game which skip a generation because Nintendo can not make all of the games people want. Donkey Kong, Kid Icarus, and Earth-Bound are games we haven't seen in a while, and we only got StarFox and F-Zero on the Gamecube because Nintendo lent the IP to third parties.

Nintendo also is a huge inovator, and produces tons of new games in any given generation. Games like Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Battalion Wars, Animal Crossing, Doshin The Giant, Odama, and Chibi-Robo are all examples of Nintendo creating new games (and new genres).

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Borland]

...they were basically just gimmicks

So it's different now? It really is too early to tell if this will be like the nintendo robot or the more successful light gun. Or the powerglove. It might gain acceptance like the DS, but it's very early in the game to be creaming over the success.

And you best hope that the wiimote is not the defining feature of the console. Motion sensing is cool, but I don't want every damn game to require me to wave the wand at it to play. No more than I want to use a light gun to shoot goombas in super mario brothers.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[10Ghz]

"So it's different now?"

It sure seems like that. Of course we don't have actual consoles to test yet, but the wiimote seems to be the thing that everybody focuses on, Nintendo included.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Viol8]

>What those particular consoles has to do with Wii, is beyond me, though.

You smoking something?

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Viol8]

>Aehm, N64 had the first true 3D jump'n run (Mario64), first game with lock-on fights (ZeldaOoT),

Hardly ground breaking even if true (and I'm damn sure they're was prior art).

>analog-stick

Some 1970s consoles had analogue controls. BFD.

>rumblepack

Very well designed. You could use the rumble pack or memory expansion but
not both at the same time. Genius.

>dedicated controls for the camera

Err , sorry? It had a few extra buttons on the keypad that in Mario64
happened to be used for the camera. So what?

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only sequels on th 360? Heh
Dead Rising, Chromehounds, Saints Row, Gears of War, Blue Dragon, Bullet Witch, Condemned, ...

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Anonymous Coward]

Style over substance huh? Best of luck to you, maybe we'll see you when you've grown up.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[slim]

And you best hope that the wiimote is not the defining feature of the console. Motion sensing is cool, but I don't want every damn game to require me to wave the wand at it to play. No more than I want to use a light gun to shoot goombas in super mario brothers.

I think the intention is that most Wii games will use wiimote features. The difference between this and the Powerglove is that this is the controller that comes with the console. A developer knows that if their customer has a Wii, they have a wiimote. The great thing about this is that the controller will very quickly cease to be a novelty, and developers will be able to look past that and use it as a tool for great game experiences.

And users will quickly get past "I don't want to wave a wand at every game", any more than they currently think "I don't want to mash buttons to do something" today.

OTOH I *like* novelty controllers, and to an extent the wiimote will mean fewer of them. A Donkey Conga type game on Wii, for example, would use the wiimote rather than custom bongos. A Wii "Samba de Amigo" won't have real maracas, it'll use the wiimote. Sad, because those controllers are a whole lot of fun. Nice though, because there's less of a barrier to creating or owning games like those.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

It really is a revolution

If only! I'm sick of sounding like a five-year-old every time I refer to it!

Re:Anybody really interested?

[CaseM]

You're just describing the software, not the console it ran on.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[CronoCloud]

So the new Mario/Zelda/Smash Bros//Metroid aren't sequels/remakes with better graphics?

Look, gamers want sequels. They may not want to admit it but it's true. They want them on all the systems, including the Wii.

And isn't the virtual console just "more of the old" and doesn't the Wii use the Gamecube controller for traditional games?

The Wii isn't anymore innovative than the PS2 was/is

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Anonymous Coward]

call it "the new nintendo".

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out the new gameplay elements of the new Zelda.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Jerf]

So, what exactly would qualify as innovation, anyhow?

If you game the definition to something like "If anybody anywhere ever thought of it before it was deployed, it's not innovative", then you're going to live a very uninnovative life. Which is fine, but such a definition of "innovation" that nothing can meet isn't very useful.

I suppose there aren't any innovating programming languages since LISP since proper LISP macros could emulate pretty much any of them. A consistent definition of "innovative", but not a useful one.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[oc255]

Comment struck me as aligned with my own thinking. FastCar, great point. NES, another good point. Sucker buy a ps3, yep that's me. RPG, yep. Wrong in thinking it will sell out, yeah, I'm hoping too so I don't have to wait until 2007 (see: consumerism).

At the risk of sounding lame, adding you as a friend.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Borland]

The great thing about this is that the controller will very quickly cease to be a novelty

See, you are getting ahead of yourself.

Q: When is a novelty no longer a novelty?
A: When it is common place

The Wii is not out yet, therefore it is not commonplace and retains "novelty" status. You can only claim that the wiimote is not a gimmick right now. There are good indicators that the Wii wiill do well, but this is not certain. Press coverage, even good press coverage, and enthusiasm are not sales figures. Otherwise SoaP would be the movie event of the decade.

I applaud Nintendo for expanding the standard interface choices, but I'll only eat my reservations when I see a Tickle Me Elmo sales rush in November.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[slim]

Q: When is a novelty no longer a novelty?
A: When it is common place


No.
Q: When is a novelty no longer a novelty to an individual?
A: When that individual is used to it.

I bought a Saturn 3D controller from a car boot sale once, and the man who sold it to me said "Ooh, it's good that. When you push it a short way, Sonic walks, but if you push it further, he runs!".
To him, analogue control was still a novelty. That's nothing to do with how commonplace analogue control was. It's to do with how much exposure he'd had to it.

For the first couple of days with a Wii, you're going to be going: "Look! When I swing the wiimote up, the wee fella swings his golf club to match! Club goes up! Club goes down! Club goes up! Club goes down!". After a while, the novelty will fade, and you'll have a motion sensing controller that's no longer a novelty to you. No matter how many Nintendo sold.

And every Wii owner will go through the same experience.

I think you'll agree that enough Wii games will be out there to merit at least a few Wii-exclusive titles (and of course, the first-party stuff will all be Wii exclusive). This that for the first time there will be developers working on titles for a platform where EVERY USER will have a motion sensing controller and be familiar with it -- not considering it to be a novelty. And that's what excites me.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Borland]

I see your point. But that doesn't mean everyone is going to agree in numbers sufficient to put Nintendo on top. But you know what I would consider true innovation?

A mouse and keyboard

Now that would truly be a quantum leap in console interface technology.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Nevyn]

Aehm, N64 had the first true 3D jump'n run (Mario64)

While the controls were very nice (and I bought one, for that game), Tomb Raider had 3rd person 3d jump+run+fight a long time before the N64 (although, yes, it was the first console to do it).

Re:Anybody really interested?

[slim]

Dreamcast had mouse and keyboard. So did PS2.

But by not being bundled, they were too obscure for most devs to bother supporting.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Anonymous Coward]

> It has a Wiimote (which is fun to say and almost makes up for naming the console the Wii)

Wiimote? I wonder if they'll get Elmer Fudd to advertise that feature?
That or commercials saying "Wii will, Wii will, rock you!" ...

Better marketing opportunities than Sony, at least. I mean what can they say? Final Fantasy X-23, now with 33% more costumes to play Barbie dress-up with and 90% more FMVs?

And they used to be so fun... :(

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Br'fin]

While there were 3D adventures before Mario64. Mario64 was the first one with the concept of 'push in the direction you want to go.' While that's fairly common now, everyone before then was using Resident Evil controls, Forward-Back + Left-Right.

And in response to another post: while the C buttons were extra buttons, they were concepted as camera control. Hence they weren't x, y, z, etc, but were all C-up, C-down, and so on. And were later merged into a single analog C stick on the Gamecube. Nintendo was trying to address the problems it saw in controlling games in 3D. Both in manipulating your character and in viewing the world around you.

Re:Anybody really interested?

[daringone]

I was one of the "Graphics are no big deal" guys too. Then I saw Madden '07 on a 360 in Hi-def vs. my PS2. I nearly dropped $400 right then and there. I'll be waiting for PS3 though instead of picking up the 360. I'd rather ensure that I get my Final Fantasy titles :-)

Re:Anybody really interested?

[Viol8]

>Which is fine, but such a definition of "innovation" that nothing can meet isn't very useful.

Innovation is something new. Buy a dictionary. If its been done before its not new hence
not innovative. This isn't a complex concept to grasp for chrissake.

Meh...

[MageWyn]

I'm not sure that I want Wii Sports. Too bad I can't switch to another game or take $50 off the cost to lose it.

DragonQuest: Swords anyone?

Re:Meh...

[Anonymous Coward]

The cost to nintendo in bundling the game is nowhere near $50, maybe $5 at the very most (99.9% development time). The game is bundled to introduce you to the controller interface, not to be $50 worth of entertainment.

Re:Meh...

[Anonymous Coward]

As pointed out elsewhere, the extra $50 over the Japan cost also includes a a controller. Assuming that the user derives ~$25 value from the game and second controller, it's a decent deal. Probably end up spending that much on either, were they not bundled.

Good news for normal humans

[svunt]

Personally, I start to lose count after a squillion frames a second, I'm sure my eyeballs are only getting 800x600 resolution these days, and I'm just totally over the idea of paying $500+ for a machine, and $50+ for games, when they're extremely high-res, high-speed, and SHIT. The Wii gives me hope that there's something out there for people who like gameplay, not graphics, and have better things to spend the big bucks on than a friggin' procrastinaion console. Nice one, Nintendo.

Re:Good news for normal humans

[nissu]

I'm just totally over the idea of paying $500+ for a machine, and $50+ for games, when they're extremely high-res, high-speed, and SHIT.

Who says PS3 games will be shit? Great gameplay and great visuals are not mutually exclusive.

The Wii gives me hope that there's something out there for people who like gameplay, not graphics, and have better things to spend the big bucks on than a friggin' procrastinaion console. Nice one, Nintendo.

Who says Wii games will have better gameplay? Wiimote alone doesn't guarantee great gameplay, as controls are only a part of the equation. Besides, nobody (except developers with lots of hands-on experience) really knows whether Wiimote is any good.

The gameplay on Wii must be stunning if the release games look like this: GT Pro screenshots (oh, please do not start talking about the Wii Splinter Cell shots, they were taken from a PC development board and still looked horrible)

To me, PS3 and Xbox360 represent progress. Releasing an old console in a new casing (Wii) is not progress. Ask any developer what they would like to improve on the platform they are developing for and the most likely answer is "more memory, more storage, faster CPU and better graphics". Wii fans seem to have a very hard time understanding that performance and the ability to display great graphics is not a big, evil gameplay-killing monster. It's exactly the opposite: the more resources you have at your disposal, the less compromises you have to make in terms of gameplay. Do you know how many times developers have said to themselves "we would have loved to do that, but PS2/Xbox/Gamecube couldn't handle it"? Expect to see lots of "multiplatform" games released for both PS3 and Xbox 360, but not for Wii because making compromises isn't worth it.

Advances in technology have made games like Oblivion possible. Is Oblivion better than the RPG games we had ten years ago? Yes, it definitely is. Similar examples can be found in any genre.

ps. I too do think that PS3 pricing is crazy and won't be getting one anytime soon, but the road Sony is taking (i.e. push absolute cutting edge technology to the market) is, in the long run, the right one for Sony and the gamers too.

Re:Good news for normal humans

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed, if the games suck, resolution doesn't matter. Just some time ago I played Prehistorik 2 (a really nice DOS game from my childhood), which seemed to have a 320 x 240 resolution; it's not my favourite, but it was quite good.

Having said that (and my eyes are also not that good, esp if I take off these damn glasses :)), IMHO low resolutions (and low FPS) really need good anti-aliasing (and/or motion blur, correspondingly), as that may add a lot to the feeling of solidness of the 3d graphics (which seems to go easier on my eyes somehow). But maybe it's just personal preference.

Another thing - some time in the future, if/when the prices come down, I'd like to buy a projector for gaming/movies/etc; at that point, I think resolutions will matter more (unless you're watching the screen from far away).

Re:Good news for normal humans

[danbeck]

Who says PS3 games will be shit? Great gameplay and great visuals are not mutually exclusive

I say it. What do we have to look forward on the PS3? Riiiiiidge racer and a 1,000 more titles that are simply rehashes of games gone by with larger version numbers. Games will look amazing, but will also be boring as fuck. Sadly, I'm only looking forward to two games on the PS3... MGS4 and FFVIII. Notice something there?

To me, PS3 and Xbox360 represent progress. Releasing an old console in a new casing (Wii) is not progress. Ask any developer what they would like to improve on the platform they are developing for and the most likely answer is "more memory, more storage, faster CPU and better graphics".

And what would they do with it? Graphics. You don't need more memory or a faster CPU to come up with solid game mechanics, engaging story, good control and solid gameplay, just prettier graphics, modeling and animation.

Do you know how many times developers have said to themselves "we would have loved to do that, but PS2/Xbox/Gamecube couldn't handle it"?

Yes, I've heard this said many times, but the context has *always* been graphics, not gameplay.

Expect to see lots of "multiplatform" games released for both PS3 and Xbox 360, but not for Wii because making compromises isn't worth it.

Are you saying that Wii owners won't be subjected to AMAZING multiplatform hits like Naruto, King Kong, Under the Hedge, Monster House, Cars, One Piece, et. al? Thank GOD, I was worried about that.

Advances in technology have made games like Oblivion possible. Is Oblivion better than the RPG games we had ten years ago? Yes, it definitely is. Similar examples can be found in any genre.

NO, it most definitely is not better. You seem to only be able to equate quality games with high-end graphics, but you are sadly mistaken. There are a lot of high quality RPGs out there covering different creative genres, styles and systems that are far better than Oblivion.

Worse, your flagship example here runs like crap on the 360 and it requires a pretty damned powerful PC to boot. Why? Because the damned graphics are so fucking over the top. The story sucks and the premise of wandering around the country like some homeless hippie drunk might be liberating to some, but it makes for a game that quickly loses it's appeal.

Lastly, while this is entirely my personal opinion, wtf is up with the character models in Oblivion? I know that in the real world not everyone is beautiful, but neither is everyone as butt fucking ugly as they are in Oblivion. Does the Bethesda team have a fetish for the morbidly ugly?

Re:Good news for normal humans

[buffer-overflowed]

I'm sorry what? Oblivion is better than Fallout, Nethack, Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate, the entire Ultima series, Dragon Quest 1-6, Final Fantasy 1-6, half the Seiken Densetsu series, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Chrono Trigger, etc. etc. Hell, Daggerfall and Arena are in there too if you want TES. A few of those are less than a decade old, but all of them are older than the PS2.

It's prettier, it's also far less clever than a lot of the games I just listed, far less ground breaking, and in many ways a step backwards from Morrowind. Plus, you need to freakin' mod it to deconsole-fy the interface, and like all TES games it was(and still is, but it's better) buggy as hell.

And no, most genres have not advanced, they've been at a freakin' standstill for almost a decade(or all but died, like adventure games and shooters). Platformers to Shooters to FPSes. We've gotten polish but nothing beyond incremental. The last big FPSes in that category were Tribes 2, Deus Ex and Half Life(and maybe an honorable mention to Goldeneye). The last huge platformer innovation was Mario 64 almost a decade ago! Beat 'em ups have gone *downhill* since Street Fighter 2, only Smash Bros still captures that flavor, and only Soul Calibur does 3D truly decently. Then we have RPGs, which have gotten... prettier. Nethack dynamically generates an entire dungeon for you. Ultimas had *huge* overworlds(as do various hack derivatives). JRPGs have been using the same basic formula pretty much since their inception, the only difference is now there is FMV and they're prettier(or in the case of FF:XII play for you). I could go on and on and on.

The only progress the 360 and PS3 represent is graphical progress. If you're really a hardcore gamer, you'll play something like Nethack, or replay System Shock 1/2. The graphics really, really don't matter as anything other than a nice bonus.

Fucking kids and their playstations. Yea, your opinion on video games is irrelevant. Please, please, stick to the PS3. I really do not want to be associated with your ilk.

Re:Good news for normal humans

[Anonymous Coward]

Who says PS3 games will be shit? Great gameplay and great visuals are not mutually exclusive.

Obviously, you can have a good game with good visuals at the same time. What I will say is this, as game development cost go up the videogame industry becomes far more like Hollywood and that is not a good thing; most PS3 and XBox 360 games are (essentially) the same collection of tired cliches that we have seen since the Playstation and Saturn were released. The Wii (much like the DS) seems to be attracting games where the developers are taking more of a risk, and I'm pretty sure this has to do with the dramatically lower development costs.

To me, PS3 and Xbox360 represent progress. Releasing an old console in a new casing (Wii) is not progress. Ask any developer what they would like to improve on the platform they are developing for and the most likely answer is "more memory, more storage, faster CPU and better graphics".

Then there is no future in game development! We're hitting a point (whether it is with the PS3, PS4 or PS5) where any further cost in improving the graphics is (mostly) money that is wasted; we have the ability to visually express everything we need inorder to tell a story or create an interesting gameplay dynamic. You don't need subsurface scattering (producing realistic skin effects) to know that the character is a bad guy, and you don't need bidirectional reflectance mapping on the chrome of a car to know that it would be fun to drive.

Take Zelda as an example, would you (really) be getting any more out of the game if the model had twice as many polygons, or if the textures were twice the resolution? Would the game play any differently? Certainly, you could improve AI, but AI doesn't require that much processing power (most AI today is done using scripted events, and that means it is dependant on the processing power of your software engineer) or you could improve Physics but the Wii should be able to handle updated physics effects (maybe without as much precision).

Wii fans seem to have a very hard time understanding that performance and the ability to display great graphics is not a big, evil gameplay-killing monster. It's exactly the opposite: the more resources you have at your disposal, the less compromises you have to make in terms of gameplay.

This really used to be the case. Moving from the N64/Playstation to the Dreamcast/PS2 produced massive opportunities for open levels and higher detail environments, when we're moving from the PS2/XBox to the PS3/XBox 360 it is mostly just making the environments look more realistic. This does have a game killing effect though because, as developers have pointed out, it costs about four times as much to produce a PS3/XBox 360 game as it did to produce a PS2/XBox game; as the costs escalate it becomes harder for a developer to justify producing a game that isn't a World War 2 First person shooter, or a Turn Based RPG in a combination Science Fiction/ Fantasy world.

Do you know how many times developers have said to themselves "we would have loved to do that, but PS2/Xbox/Gamecube couldn't handle it"?

I actually worked in game development for years before my children were born, and I can honestly say that I doubt many developers were really saying this; all you have to do is look at a game from 2001 (like Clive Barkers: The Undying, or Max Payne) and compare it to games that are about to be released and ask yourself if there is really anything (important) that could not have been done in these games?

Advances in technology have made games like Oblivion possible. Is Oblivion better than the RPG games we had ten years ago? Yes, it definitely is. Similar examples can be found in any genre.

No one said that graphics can never improve, after all the Wii is more powerful than the Gamecube was (a friend of mine put it best when he said that the Wii is, essentiall, as powerful as a system that would have been released in mid 2004) and we're not seeing the full capabilities mainly because developers are being cheap at this point in time and Nintendo had the games (mostly) developed on Gamecube hardware.

Re:Good news for normal humans

[sesshomaru]

Yes, but anyone who believes what you've just written is not in Sony's core market focus group. To quote an article I read long ago:

Sony made this distinction, to a large extent, not so much through original design or perspective or technology as through psychology. Their message: videogames are childish, uncool garbage. What we have to offer, it's barely even videogames. It's more like movies, or some other kind of entertainment. They reinforced the premise by generally refusing "old fashioned" 2D games on their systems, unless explicitly labeled as a retro package; through putting a heavy emphasis on "mature"-themed games, and by funneling Sony's limitless funds into years of blanket advertising - rarely showing actual game footage if CG was available, emphasizing the cinematic and familiar. The implication was, the less videogames in any sense resembled what you and I think of as videogames, the better. -- What's Wrong With Console Design?

This has been Sony's marketing philosophy going forward, "Everything that has come before sucks, even our stuff." So, they have two kinds of fans, people who buy into this philosophy, and people who just go with the market leader which they've been up until now. therefore, you can divide the Sony fans into two groups, the diehard fanboys who buy into Sony's twisted gaming philosophy and the people who just want the system with the most variety of games. This is why, as far as fanboys are concerned, Sony fanboys are the most obnoxious.

Honestly, while I'm anti-Sony for various reasons, the way the Sony videogaming marketing department has approached gaming with a Maoist Chinese-style "Cultural Revolution" would be tops on the list. Still, they must have been right, it got them control of the videogame market, unfortunately.

Re:Good news for normal humans

[SilentChris]

We'll see. I am an ardent supporter of all the consoles (more competition = better games). While some attempts to introduce better "gameplay" by Nintendo have been successful, others have felt flat.

For example, I just bought Starfox for the Nintendo DS (I waited for the reviews and decided 80% from most gaming rags was enough). The game controls almost entirely with the stylus. You would think that would grant you slightly better control, but it doesn't -- everyone I've seen playing the game is constantly crashing into things. It was an interesting design decision -- does playing with the stylus actually improve the gameplay? Not really. It could've been a very fun game if they just used the traditional controls. (Ditto on Metroid for DS, which is known to give people hand cramps).

I don't doubt the stylus and Wiimote can add innovative spins on gameplay. It just seems a lot of developers right now are throwing darts and hoping a few stick. Which is fine when you're hammering out the beta, but when if you as a consumer have to pay $40 for a Starfox game that is intentionally crippled in the control department, you kind of wonder if it's worth it.

Re:Good news for normal humans

[CronoCloud]

Who says that good gameplay and good praphics are mutually exclusive? Don't you want both?

Re:Good news for normal humans

[Das Modell]

Advances in technology have made games like Oblivion possible. Is Oblivion better than the RPG games we had ten years ago? Yes, it definitely is. Similar examples can be found in any genre.

I think Oblivion's graphics are wonderful, especially the forests. However, it's not really such an amazing game, and I didn't find it as interesting as, say, Baldur's Gate II. Likewise, I didn't think Half-Life 2 was as good as its predecessor.

Re:Good news for normal humans

[Moofie]

"Yes, but anyone who believes what you've just written is not in Sony's core market focus group."

But I am, which is why I think the PS3 will be pants. (that means bad.)

Re:Good news for normal humans

[Moofie]

"Who says that good gameplay and good praphics are mutually exclusive?"

They're not diametrically opposed, but I know which one gets focus in the market, and which one I care about. They're not the same.

Re:Good news for normal humans

[kyouteki]

I didn't realize Squeenix was re-releasing FFVIII for the PS3. Excelsior!

Re:Good news for normal humans

[nissu]

I say it. What do we have to look forward on the PS3? Riiiiiidge racer and a 1,000 more titles that are simply rehashes of games gone by with larger version numbers.

It's funny you should say that. Let's see what do we have to look forward on the Wii: new Mario, new Zelda, new Metroid, new Super Monkey Ball, new Rayman, new Tony Hawk, new Call of Duty, new Madden, new Metal Slug, Trauma Center (already seen on DS), new SpongeBob plus a couple of new exclusive titles which may or may not be good. GT Pro launch game is just a port of an old (crap) driving game already released for GameCube in Japan. After a year or two we will get a new round of Mario, Zelda and Metroid and maybe even Resident Evil or a new Pokemon game! Nintendo, if anyone, is known for recycling their franchise year after year. The first Super Mario on the DS was just a port of the N64 version.

With the Virtual Console you get to play 15 year old games in an emulator. I guess that's much touted innovation.

[developers and lack of power]

Yes, I've heard this said many times, but the context has *always* been graphics, not gameplay.

Not always. For example, Splinter Cell on PS2 had smaller redesigned levels (smaller) when compared to the Xbox version. Of course it's arguable whether that had an effect on the gameplay or not. Choppier graphics and slowdowns in the PS2 version certainly made it less enjoyable.

[lack of multiplatformers]

Are you saying that Wii owners won't be subjected to AMAZING multiplatform hits like Naruto, King Kong, Under the Hedge, Monster House, Cars, One Piece, et. al? Thank GOD, I was worried about that.

Yes, most of multiplatformers are rubbish and I don't care for most them either. Then again, there are great multiplatform games too. I'm just trying to say that lack of multiplatformers combined with Nintendo's unability to produce enough exclusive AAA+ titles for Wii will probably kill it in the long run. In order to succeed a console needs a large selection of games catering for everybody - just look at PS2. Why do I think that Wii will not have too many great exclusives? Look at Gamecube's library. Two or three great games per year is simply not enough.

You seem to only be able to equate quality games with high-end graphics, but you are sadly mistaken.

No. Gameplay is, in the end, what matters. However, great graphics will make a great game even better. If I get to choose between great gameplay or great gameplay AND great graphics, I'll go for the latter. It's as simple as that. Just for the record, my all time favourite game has to be Dungeon Master on Atari ST. Great atmosphere and almost flawless gameplay combined with nice graphics for the time (which contributed a lot to the atmosphere).

Anyway, have fun playing Mario Skeet Shooting or whatever on your Wii. I'll be playing something else.

Re:Good news for normal humans

[TrekCycling]

I can't wait to develop tennis elbow from my Wiimote.

Gameplay over graphics... I agree with that. But this has RSI written all over it, IMHO.

Re:Good news for normal humans

[nissu]

The last huge platformer innovation was Mario 64 almost a decade ago!

Innovation, maybe, but there has been a bunch of clearly better platformers after Mario 64. I have to confess that I haven't played the original Super Mario 64, only the DS version which is basically the same game. It's a good game, but I was put off by the "innovative" control system which made it very cumbersome to play.

And no, most genres have not advanced, they've been at a freakin' standstill for almost a decade(or all but died, like adventure games and shooters).

Yes, adventure games are pretty much dead. I enjoyed the Infocom games such as Zork series a lot (on CP/M). The last great (mostly) text based adventures, in my opinion, were released my Magnetic Scrolls in the late 80's and early 90's. I think they were killed by graphical adventures such as Monkey Island and others as PCs got more powerful. However, to be honest, I'll rather play a graphical adventure with a great plot than a purely text-based game on an amber 80x24 terminal or any of the RPGs you mentioned instead of Nethack.

Fucking kids and their playstations. Yea, your opinion on video games is irrelevant. Please, please, stick to the PS3. I really do not want to be associated with your ilk.

I don't know if you're specifically referring to me as a "fucking kid", but I've been playing video games on different systems (C64, Sinclair Spectrum, MSX, PC, Playstation, PS2, Xbox, Nintendo DS) since the mid-eighties or so. The chances are that you haven't played much longer.

Re:Good news for normal humans

[rjung2k]

"I just bought Starfox for the Nintendo DS (I waited for the reviews and decided 80% from most gaming rags was enough). The game controls almost entirely with the stylus. You would think that would grant you slightly better control, but it doesn't -- everyone I've seen playing the game is constantly crashing into things."

You need to hang out with better pilots. After adjusting for the fact that the radar was a critical part of the game, I had no problems flying around in SFC.

"It was an interesting design decision -- does playing with the stylus actually improve the gameplay? Not really."

While I also wished there was an option to play with traditional joypad controls, I don't think the stylus-flying scheme is a loss, as you can do subtle controls equivalent to using an analog stick. And using the touchpad has the added bonus of letting you fire bombs anywhere on the battlefield, not just immediately in front of you.

That said, I still yearn for an SNES-style on-rails StarFox shooter...

Even I can afford that!

[internetstruck]

Even after making payments on my H3 SUV, new power efficient computer, and bikini wax, I'll still have enough left over for a Wii and some vintage games. My butt is tingling with anticipation of sitting in a chair for hours as my thumbs go numb.

Re:Even I can afford that!

[Anonymous Coward]

... and bikini wax, I'll still have enough left over for a Wii and some vintage games. My butt is tingling ...

you're not supposed to do that with a bikini wax!

Re:Even I can afford that!

[HarvardAce]

My butt is tingling with anticipation of sitting in a chair for hours as my thumbs go numb.

Except that it's the Wii, so your wrists will be going numb. Well, probably not, because I'm sure they get a lot of exercise...

$250???

[Anonymous Coward]

So I am at the store at Christmas shopping for my kids presents. I have a few options:

- A $600 Sony PS3 that doesnt include a game. So I need to spend $600 plus $60 for another controller + $60-$100 for a game. Total price $780-$820 + tax.
- A $500 Microsoft 360 that also doesnt include a game. So I need to spend $500 plus $60 for another controller + $50-$60 for a game. Total price $610-$620 + tax.
- A $250 Nintendo Wii that DOES include a game. So I need to spend $250 plus $60 for another controller + $50 for a game. Total price $360 + tax.

Damn, which one SHALL I choose?

Re:$250???

[Pacifist Brawler]

I don't know where you're getting $60 for a controller for any of these (360 is $40 or $50, we haven't seen a per controller price-point for the Wii or PS3 that I know of). Also, 360 Premium at list price is $400. Besides, if Wii comes with a game why do you then need to buy a game???

Re:$250???

[puddpunk]

I choose option D:

(D) Nobody gives a shit about you or your kids, you tightass.

Re:$250???

[Anonymous Coward]

"- A $500 Microsoft 360 that also doesnt include a game. So I need to spend $500 plus $60 for another controller + $50-$60 for a game. Total price $610-$620 + tax."

Swing and a miss
I think most people will spend an extra $50 for a truely next generation machine.

Re:$250???

[KDR_11k]

The 360 Premium costs 400, not 500. That was the low-end PS3.

Awwww :(

[Quiet_Desperation]

C'mon! Bundle Zelda! You'll sell fifteen billion of them.

Re:Awwww :(

[Firehed]

No kidding. But I'm still going to save for one.

Re:Awwww :(

[Wind_Walker]

They'll sell fifteen billion Zelda games even if they don't bundle it. So why would they include it as a pack-in when they could make higher margins selling it stand-alone?

Re:Awwww :(

[Pacifist Brawler]

Roughtly 2.5 Wiis/person. I don't know that everyone is that hardcore.

Re:Awwww :(

[cowscows]

While I'm sure Zelda will be a great game, it's not really a flagship member of their new "games for everyone" push. Seeing as it developed first as a Gamecube game, plus is inheriting a lot of complexity from the zelda legacy, it's not really a beginner's game.

Wii sports, on the other hand, looks pretty damn straight forward. The remote is acting like a bunch of objects that everyone, even if they haven't used one before, has seen one used and is familiar with. I haven't even played Wii Sports yet, but from the few videos I've seen, I'm fairly confident I could explain over the phone to my mom how to play it. And she could hardly avoid turning around and going backwards in Mario Kart on the Gamecube.

Re:Awwww :(

[Chris Burke]

Yeah, if they're going to bundle Zelda, it will be after the console has been out for a year so everyone who was frothing at the mouth to buy the console and new Zelda (i.e. me and people like me) have already spent their money, and then they can try to draw sales from the more reluctant crowd by bundling the console with a flagship game.

Though I don't recall them ever bundling Zelda before (possibly with the game boy line; I don't keep track of that much), which means they probably consider Zelda to still be worth another purchase above and beyond the console. Still I'd expect the bundle to change to some title from launch or early in the life of the console that has proven draw power. Just maybe not Zelda.

Call me wierd...

[TheGreatHegemon]

But somehow, I can actually see the Wii being released when Nintendo says it will. Of all the next gen consoles, I think the Wii is really being executed the best this time around. (Of course, final judgement cannot be rendered until AFTER all three are out)

Re:Call me wierd...

[Anonymous Coward]

Which, given Nintendos *official* word is the 2nd December... (See http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/index.html - I can't read Japanese but...)

Strange that this article thinks it's a November release for the US.

Article pulled

[12ahead]

The Article has been pulled. Whether that adds to the credibility of the info or not should all be clear later today when the Japan press conference is over or after the press conference in the US tomorrow.

Letdown.

[Spazntwich]

I'll admit, I bought into the hype.

I let all of the pre-coverage get me to expect either a release date earlier than 1 month before Christmas, or a price closer to $200.

$250 and late November is kind of a letdown.

The most irritating fact? $5-$10 virtual console games. What with the price of ram back in the day, it sounds like they'll be making around a dollar for dollar profit margin that they were in the 90s. If you convert it to % profit margins and consider the fact that bandwidth costs are minimal, they're making a profit margin in the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of percents.

This single set of facts has turned me from eager to get a Wii into more of a wait and see approach.

Oh well.

Re:Letdown.

[AuMatar]

Don't forget that its 250 with a game. That more than makes up the $50 difference to me.

Re:Letdown.

[Logic and Reason]

Why do you care how much profit they make? What matters is whether the games are worth that price to you. And if high marginal profits bother you, guess what? Plastic CDs in cardboard boxes don't cost a whole lot to manufacture, either.

Re:Letdown.

[webheaded]

I mostly agree with you. While its not really going to affect my decision to get one, I'm really very irritated that they lied to us about the price and release date. I was really really looking forward to it launching before the PS3 and costing 200 bucks, but here we are. Oh well. :-/

Re:Letdown.

[PoderOmega]

Can you post a link where Nintendo ever lied about the price? I think you have mistaken industry guestimates with offical Nintendo statements.

Re:Letdown.

[noidentity]

I let all of the pre-coverage get me to expect either a release date earlier than 1 month before Christmas, or a price closer to $200.

Unless Christmas has been moved to another date or November has been shortened by a week, the first clause is true.

Re:Letdown.

[Dankling]

Remember, this is just the release of the console. Back when the NES and SNES came out there wasn't $300, $400 and $+++ consoles on the market to be competing against. It looks as if the market has seen a substantial inflation over the years, whereas Nintendos inflation with the Wii may only be minimal. If you are thinking $5-$10 for a legit copy of classic games is an overhaul, you can just get out of my house. An overwhelming majority of the population does not use roms/emus, so they have gone without the classics for quite a long time (generally, people don't dust off the ole' N64, SNES, or earlier that often)
Reminder: These are the release prices, the only direction they will go from here is down.

$2.50 for the whole Zelda: Ocarina of Time in 2009.... need I say more?

Re:Letdown.

[mincognito]

+1 Funny

I think the mods are laughing at you, not with you.

Re:Letdown.

[Anthony Boyd]

According to this press release, no game is included.

-Tony

Re:Letdown.

[SharpFang]

For me it's a problem - Wii with -a- game, not with -the- game. I hate sports games. I'd gladly get something else instead, or have my $50 back.

Re:Letdown.

[SharpFang]

The costs of these games for Wii was non-zero. Costs of developing the base emulator aside, each of the games had to be betatested and the emulator patched in case bugs were found. If you seen how emulation goes, each game has a ton of exceptions which are included in a mile-long .ini file which gets loaded with the ROM. Still, the file doesn't fix them all, and the games suffer some glitches. If Nintendo is to emulate old consoles using a new emulator, they must test, fix, modify, test again all the ages old code. It's not just "dump ROM into upload dir, slap on a price and index entry, make free for upload." It's a pretty complicated process of betatesting and adjusting the emulator to fix bugs that show up.

Re:Letdown.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm with you. Seriously, I've been following today's events long enough to get gwned so bad it hurt, and I have yet to hear someone offer VC price explanations other than "because they can". And no one has tried to factor in the most obvious point:

ROMs. ROMs are free. ROMs are easily obtainable. Emulators have been developed for many many platforms, and you can use ROMs with all of them.

I love Nintendo and video games in general. Between NES, SNES, and Gameboy iterations, I have about 200 authentic, fully legal cartridges, and I continue to buy new games and systems as I'm able to afford things that I want. For a long time, I held out against ROMs, saying that the actual legal, physical games offered the best, most authentic experience.

Video game publishers missed the boat in a way not terribly dissimilar to the recording and movie industries, but worse. For the most part, 'pirated' music and movies are still commercially available...if not at Target or Walmart, then Best Buy, Fry's, etc, and -definitely- online. The most 'pirated' ROMs, however, are ones that are not, or have only recently become, commercially available. Some games have been re-released, but the ports are often not as true to the original as nostalgic gamers actually want (upgraded graphics and inserted FMV with no ability view original graphics, I'm looking at you). Regardless of the appropriateness of copyright infringement, releasing video game content in the 80s and 90s without making it continually available has forced non-affluent nostalgic gamers to use Emulators to play the games they miss.

Anyways, that's all pretty obvious, and there are other points to make. The companies that own retro-game IP have already lived or died by the profits of their games. While I recognize their right to exploit their IP in order to profit again, at prices like these, they aren't just looking for additional income: they are subsidizing other games. That's nice when you use an example like "think how many Katamari Damacy's this could fund". In the real world, publishers will still limit exploration of game design and your $10 purchase of the single-platform version of your ROM will go towards making sure that this Christmas's Harry Potter game can retail for $5 cheaper. Purchasing the games isn't some magical way of paying for your ROMs, either, until you get a license saying so...that too, while ideal, is not the way your money will be directed nor the way your dollar-votes will be interpreted (especially if your favorite ROMs are not on the short list of offered VC games).

Don't get me wrong: the Wii is amazing, and on the points I find most important, the hands-down winner. It'll be the first console I buy from this gen, and the one I enjoy the most. However, as much as it pains me not to give in to my Nintendo fanboyism, I can't support Nintendo doing things and setting prices/availability that we would draw and quarter other organizations for.

Re:Letdown.

[bm_luethke]

"If you convert it to % profit margins and consider the fact that bandwidth costs are minimal, they're making a profit margin in the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of percents."

Umm, how much do you want them to charge?

If they are charging 200,000% (minimum to be hundreds of thousands, let alone million percent) too much what would you be happy with (Given how profit margins are calculated I'm going to assume you don't mean that)?

Not to mention there are MANY more costs than simply bandwidth, and I would say that is probably one of the smallest costs in there.

Plus, 5-10 dollars for a game is pretty low. It's thoughts like this that are stalling acceptance of downloaded older material (games, movies, etc). Much less than that and it's not worth thier time to fool with, especially given the small amount of games available (music can get away with sub dollar because many of us may want 5000+ songs, games and such do not enjoy that).

Re:Letdown.

[10101001 10101001]

Why do you care how much profit they make? What matters is whether the games are worth that price to you.

And he's determining the price based on the amount of profit they make on the good. That's pretty reasonable, given that almost everyone does that for *every* good. I mean, without food you'd die; but you'd be willing to spend every last cent on it because of what it's worth to you? Or do you consider how much it cost to make and how much profit goes into it to decide if some food is just too expensive? Do you eat the cheapest possible food?

Re:Letdown.

[10101001 10101001]

The costs of these games for Wii was non-zero. Costs of developing the base emulator aside, each of the games had to be betatested and the emulator patched in case bugs were found.

Include the cost of the base emulator and amortize the cost. You're still looking at an incredibly low value relative to most modern games.

If you seen how emulation goes, each game has a ton of exceptions which are included in a mile-long .ini file which gets loaded with the ROM.

True and false. One, most emulators (NES and SNES) are able to run a ton of games without exceptions. Two, for those emulators that do need to make exceptions, that remains only true for *those* games. Given that not every game is remotely being offered for sale, one has to recognize that a well written emulator has a high chance of covering most (though probably not all) games without hacks. Ie, the cost to develop the emulator becomes the bigger focus of all games at a greater cost to all instead of making hacks for every game. The former is almost certainly more cost effective. The exception is N64 games, which probably *will* need to be heavily hacked. That has more to do with the fact that the N64 games will probably not emulated but virtualized or recompiled.

Still, the file doesn't fix them all, and the games suffer some glitches. If Nintendo is to emulate old consoles using a new emulator, they must test, fix, modify, test again all the ages old code.

Uh, no. While it's possible that Nintendo may opt to rewrite their own games to work with the emulator, it's unlikely that Nintendo will actually do so. It's cheaper to hire current developers to make a better emulator than it is take people in upper management and demote them temporarily to developers to work on the code they or their peers wrote. Really, it's very unlikely that they'll go about patching many, if any, games, except possible to fix bugs in the original programs.

It's not just "dump ROM into upload dir, slap on a price and index entry, make free for upload." It's a pretty complicated process of betatesting and adjusting the emulator to fix bugs that show up.

Very true. Yet, this cost is relatively small compared to creating games from scratch for the emulated system, let alone making new games for the GBA, DS, or Wii. Any claims that the money is to pay for "development costs" is a best misplaced given that the emulator itself is part of the cost of the console. Or would you believe that Sony has a viable argument to charge more for PS1 games played on the PS2 (after all, it's more work to support PS1 games and do all sorts of tweaks to get them to run on the PS2)? The simple fact is, people (me included) were under the impression that Nintendo was going to make a profit on these old properties but at a much lower price (okay, that's not true; we were hoping they'd offer more reasonable prices but assumed they wouldn't given the whole Classic NES line of GBA games). In the end, the amortized cost of doing bug fixing on the ROMs themselves will be, I imagine, incredibly low. I just find it hard to believe that the bug testing can work out to 1/5th the cost of a Wii game given that Wii games themselves require their own bug testing.

Re:Letdown.

[tighr]

According to that same press release, isn't it $215 USD in Japan?

I don't know, I can't read that one you linked. But that's what Joystiq said. Sounds like if their's is cheaper than ours, the cost of the game is mitigated.

Re:Letdown.

[SharpFang]

So as usually, the truth is in the middle :P
The cost of debugging a 10 years old game with the emulator will certainly not be 1/5 of a new title, but neither it will be 0.01% of the price of the download. Sales of these old games are expected to be lower than the new titles too. Nintendo will be making a good penny on the old games but this is NOT money for free - the actual cost of one download, including preparation of the ROM with betatesting and emulator corrections will not be near the sale price ($4-$8), but neither it will be ($0.01-$0.03) as the OP asserts. 40-80% is to be expected. 99% not.
(also note some more obscure titles may require just the same amount if not more work, while producing really low revenue or even loss due to very limited sales...)

Re:Letdown.

[jacksonj04]

In the UK, $5 converts to £2.60(ish). This is the price of a coffee and muffin from Starbucks. I think it's perfectly fair for a classic game, even more so if it just gets on and downloads it.

Re:Letdown.

[Sancho]

Most "classic" games are pretty disappointing for me to go back and play now. Only a few really continue to hold my interest--The Legend of Zelda, Super Mario Bros. 3, and Metroid right off the top of my head. Add in the SNES versions of each tame, and the N64 Zeldas, and there look to be only a few virtual console games I'll be interested in.

Nintendo needs to be really careful with the games they release there and in what order, or else they might turn off a lot of people like me from 'classic gaming.'

Re:Letdown.

[Anonymous Coward]

$250 and late November is kind of a letdown.

I admit that November is a let down (I want it now :( ) but the $250 price tag seems reasonable considering you get a game along with the system. We all would prefer to pay $200 for the system but I'm pretty sure Nintendo is hedging their bets that the American Dollar/Yen exchange rate will be worse in November (and probably for a while after that) and don't want to lose money from that; you have to remember that the only quarter Nintendo has lost money in its 117 year history was due to exchange rate fluctuations.

The most irritating fact? $5-$10 virtual console games. What with the price of ram back in the day, it sounds like they'll be making around a dollar for dollar profit margin that they were in the 90s. If you convert it to % profit margins and consider the fact that bandwidth costs are minimal, they're making a profit margin in the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of percents.

Personally, I'm not too worried about the ammount of money Nintendo is taking for profit because it is pretty meaningless to me. The reality is they could have followed iTunes pricing for music and charged dollar for dollar the same that the games cost in the 90s; personally, I think $1 would be too low to be fair to the material and $10 would be way too much, $5-$10 seems like a reasonable range especially if they start selling new games for the system at those prices.

Re:Letdown.

[TheLetterPsy]

Ummm . . .

Profit margin = net income/sales

It is the percent of the top line that results in the bottom line.

Theoretically, you could have a profit margin greater than 100% given tax credits, income from investments, whatever, but it rarely, if ever, happens. Maybe you are thinking of ROI (return on investment)?

Re:Letdown.

[Glacial Wanderer]

I don't understand why most people assume these legacy games are free to make. They are cheaper, but there are costs involved. At the very least I'm sure it requires qualification from nintendo which probably runs about $20K-$50K. Most likely many of the games will require more work than that. I think the $5-$10 price is fair.

Re:Letdown.

[The Warlock]

Do you eat the cheapest possible food?

Well, I've been eating ramen, but I'm in college, so it's kind of a given. I mean, it's better than the more expensive food that they serve us at the shitbuffet I mean dining hall.

Re:Letdown.

[The MAZZTer]

Unlike most PC emulation programmers, Nintendo has SDKs and API documentation at their disposal. They won't need hacks because they Wii-ll be able to make everything work.

Re:Letdown.

[CronoCloud]

I remember the launch price for the NES: $249, I remember the Intellivsion costing $279. I remember the Coleco Adam, $700. and the 3DO and Laseractive. Taking inflation in account even the most expensive of the new consoles is a better deal.

Re:Letdown.

[yanos]

No game included for japan. Wii sports included for the Americas. See here

Re:Letdown.

[duerra]

Same thing with the date - Nintendo may have *wanted* to launch before the PS3, but that doesn't mean that they were *able* to. I can absolutely guarantee that they *WANTED* to launch before Sony.

Re:Letdown.

[Moofie]

"I'm really very irritated that they lied to us about the price and release date."

Who is "they"? Gizmodo? Engadget?

Re:Letdown.

[Logic and Reason]

I mean, without food you'd die; but you'd be willing to spend every last cent on it because of what it's worth to you?

Absolutely, if that's the price food was going for. Are you saying you'd rather keep your money and starve to death?

Re:Letdown.

[Lehk228]

$5 is also what we pay for coffee and a muffin from starbucks

Re:Letdown.

[10101001 10101001]

I mean, without food you'd die; but you'd be willing to spend every last cent on it because of what it's worth to you?

Absolutely, if that's the price food was going for. Are you saying you'd rather keep your money and starve to death?

Except that's not what the price of food is going for. Rarely is the price of a good and its worth the same. And if it's the case that you think the price is too high--which is quite possible given that Nintendo holds a monopoly on the sale of Nintendo ROMs--the best thing you can do is to try to convince others that the price is too high to encourage Nintendo to decrease the price to increase sales. The simple fact is that with emulator writers out there releasing their emulators for free, the cost of emulation looks amazingly low. It's no surprise then that people would take this to mean that the cost of these ROMs should be quite low, especially given the lack of game development costs. And clearly the worth of a good is judged not only the utility that a good provides you but also on just how much it costs to manufacture; if this wasn't considered, then people would have a very distorted view of utility. This is especially true given that with sufficient profit margins, it's cheaper to start your own company and make the good yourself (assuming that's legal).

So yes, I'm sure that the overpriced ROMs won't be bought by him. But it's only through people expressing *why* they aren't buying the ROMs that Nintendo can begin to have the information necessary to know if they can adjust their price to increase sales or not or if there's simply a lack of demand. The free market is predicated on the assumption of perfect information to perform optimally. Because people don't have perfect information, in the capitalist system people have to speak loudly and often to provide information. This is why it's good that he complained.

Hogwash!!

[buswolley]

And the other shoe drops. Famitsu is reporting a December 2 launch and 25,000 yen price for Japan.

That's: 25 000 Japanese yen = 212.51 U.S. dollars

Re:Hogwash!!

[buswolley]

Source for parent is joystiq.com

Re:Hogwash!!

[AuMatar]

Like most companies, they round their prices to nice numbers. Welcome to the world of foreign exchange. Besides, who knows what the exchange rate will be in 2 months- it could be the same, it could be even cheaper, it could be far more.

Re:Hogwash!!

[buswolley]

My point is that the 250 Dollar pricetag in North America could be hogwash, based of this exchange rate.

Re:Hogwash!!

[DAldredge]

They will have already take steps to lock in a know exchange rate. It is called hedging.

Re:Hogwash!!

[galgon]

Assuming the US package is like the Japan one, it will ship without a packaged game. Wii sports will cost you another 4800 yen (around 41 USD). Hopefully they will round down on the price of the wii for the US and make it $200 rather then $250.

On a positive note the nunchuck attachment is included in the box.

What happened to the before Thanksgiving US launch?

Re:Hogwash!!

[modeless]

Ignoring the real exchange rate, Nintendo's exchange rate in previous console releases has consistently been 25000 yen = $200. The SNES, N64, and GameCube all launched with this pair of prices.

However, the Japanese Wii doesn't include pack-in Wii Sports. If the NYT is correct (long shot; release prior to Japan?!?), perhaps the American launch is going to be somewhat different. Here's hoping that extra $50 gets us both Wii Sports *and* a second controller out of the box to play it with. That would be worth the difference.

Re:Hogwash!!

[buffer-overflowed]

The DS launch was similar. It launched in NA before Japan. Why? Christmas is an important holiday in NA and Europe, not so much in Japan.

Oh and the NES also launched at $200(with two controllers and Super Mario Bros). There was also a $250 deluxe pack that included ROB, the zapper, gyromite and duck hunt.

Re:Hogwash!!

[Sqwubbsy]

Assuming the US package is like the Japan one, it will ship without a packaged game. Wii sports will cost you another 4800 yen (around 41 USD). Hopefully they will round down on the price of the wii for the US and make it $200 rather then $250.

According to TFA, Wii Sports will be included with the package and games will cost around $50, or $10 less than Xbox games.
Again, this is from TFA, I don't know if it's wrong, but I do know you fail it.

Re:Hogwash!!

[aplusjimages]

Christmas in Japan is actually a big deal. Even though it doesn't contain the Christian influence the big gift giving part is.

Re:Hogwash!!

[ArwynH]

I think you mean Thanks Giving in the US. The important holiday in Europe is Christmas and in Japan it's New Year/Christmas. Thus US => mid nov. and Japan early dec. You can probably expect Europe launch early-mid dec.

Clever of them to launch after the PS3. Think of all those people unable to get one due to them being sold out and getting a Wii to keep the kids happy.

Re:Hogwash!!

[stunt_penguin]

Think of all those people unable to get one due to them being sold out and getting a Wii to keep the kids happy.

Lemme fix that : Think of all those people unable to afford a PS3, and getting a Wii because to keep the kids even happier ;)

Re:Hogwash!!

[Anonymous Coward]

zomg wiiiiii!!!~! seriously though, I may have to look into this thing if it lets you surf web on TV. As long as its not nintendo fonts / graphics. I don't really want to see marios bros style pr0n

Re:Hogwash!!

[Erectile Dysfunction]

Thanksgiving isn't a big holiday in the U.S. from a gift perspective, it's simply that we market holidays well in advance because we market everything to the extreme in the U.S. Halloween advertisements begin in early September, October will have mixed Halloween/Thanksgiving decorations and then it's heavy turkey and pilgrim displays, and then in November people begin shopping for Christmas. I'm sure if there were no Thanksgiving, it would just mean people would start shopping for Christmas even earlier.

Re:Hogwash!!

[AKAImBatman]

Actually, around Thanksgiving week is huge sales period for retail sales. It's not that people are buying gifts for Thanksgiving, it's that they have time off from work or school to go shopping. So retailers try to be fully stocked with their Christmas gifts by Thanksgiving weekend.

The part about pushing holidays two months (or more!) in advance is just a gimmick. Retailers figure that by starting the holiday season early, they can get consumers more excited about it when the holiday gets into full swing.

Re:Hogwash!!

[buswolley]

not only that but the american packaging includes two wiimotes, but in Japan it only contains one wiimote

Re:Hogwash!!

[Erectile Dysfunction]

You've just repeated what I said. People shop in November not because of Thanksgiving, but because of Christmas. Someone that does not necessarily live in this country may not realize that and presume that Thanksgiving is a big holiday for gift giving because people shop in November, which it isn't.

Re:Hogwash!!

[AKAImBatman]

No, I explained the key reason why it's important. (Time off for shopping thanks to the Thanksgiving Holiday.) You focused only on the early promotion gimmick which doesn't explain the NEED for the Wii to reach stored by Thanksgiving. :)

Re:Hogwash!!

[amuro98]

No, Christmas really isn't that big a deal in Japan. While some families exchange gifts, it's by no means universal. When I was in Japan, I never heard anyone (not even from the kids of the host family I was living with) talking about this Bhuddist priest version of Santa giving out gifts.

I went to Tokyo to visit a friend of mine there and arrived bright and early on Christmas day.

The trains were still packed with commuters heading into the office. Kids were still going to school. Stores were all open. And everywhere people were busily tearing down the small Christmas decorations to make room for the REAL holiday decorations for New Years.

Christmas in Japan is very much a "Hallmark holiday". KFC would have you believe that the "traditional" Christmas Eve dinner should consist of a bucket of chicken, with a bowl of corn soup and a potato gratin. Bakeries, meanwhile, insist that you must buy an expensive, Western style layer cake, festoond with white frosting, fruit and a plastic Santa Claus. These so-called Christmas Cakes are only sold until Christmas Eve. (Unmarried women over the age of 24 are disparingly refered to as "Christmas Cakes".)

Pop culture-wise, Christmas Eve is considered a very romantic night. Almost every show, movie, manga, anime, drama, etc. has a romantic Christmas Eve episode, and many romantic pop-songs invoke a snowy Christmas Eve in their lyrics.

New Years, however, is a different matter. Relatives hand over fat, red envelopes stuffed with money to the kids to ensure they have luck and prosperity in the new year. If there's any sort of holiday shopping season, it's in early January when hordes of kids - armed with the equivelant of several hundred dollars - descend on stores in search of comics, toys, and video games...

Re:Hogwash!!

[kahanamoku]

If they make enough consoles, they could launch pre-ps3 and parents could still pick one up after the PS3's become temporarily extinct! :)

Are you kidding?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is anybody really interested in buying a Wii?

Yes. I'm 34, my wife is 34, WE are both looking forward to playing with this new system.

but these days I'm just not as drawn to their products as I am to PC and X-Box (possibly PS3). So, is anybody really excited about this product release or is Nintendo going to grab minimal market share with this console too?

I'm not sure what you mean by "minimal" market share exactly... If you mean percentage wise, I doubt they'll beat the Xbox or the PS3. If you mean sell enough to keep the platform viable(aka profitable), I would be shocked if they didn't achieve that. Xbox is technically nice, but come on, nobody makes games like Nintendo. You can't get a mario world, zelda, mario kart, etc... on Xbox or Sony. "little kiddish" characters, sure, but some of us aren't interested in spending hours pretending we're killing other people. Some of us have kids of our own so games that we can play in front of and with our small children are a huge plus.

Nintendo has one huge thing going for it that no previous console company that has bit the dust had and that is key character properties that are almost as universally identifiable and carry almost as much sentimental value as Mickey Mouse. As long as Nintendo doesn't start porting it's key character properties to other consoles, they should be able to keep people buying their consoles for years to come.

Re:Are you kidding?

[AuMatar]

Oh it will definitely be profitable- the Xbox lost 4 billion. The Gamecube not only made money, it made almost as much as the PS2 despite a much smaller market share.

Re:Are you kidding?

[CronoCloud]

You can't get a mario world, zelda, mario kart, etc... on Xbox or Sony. "little kiddish" characters, sure, but some of us aren't interested in spending hours pretending we're killing other people. Some of us have kids of our own so games that we can play in front of and with our small children are a huge plus.

How many good platform games came out for the gamecube? Lets see........1? How many for the PS2.... I can name 9 off the top of my head without trying.

How many Zelda style games for each platform

How many good kid games for the Gamecube....how many for the PS2.

I don't know why Nintendo has such a rep for "family friendly" when Sony has them beat title wise easily.

Nintendo slacks off and rests on their laurels more than any other video game company and people love them for it.

Re:Are you kidding?

[Anonymous Coward]

How many good platform games came out for the gamecube? Lets see........1? How many for the PS2.... I can name 9 off the top of my head without trying.

How many games have YOU actually played for the gamecube?

How many Zelda style games for each platform

Zelda STYLE games? You don't get it, do you? As I mentioned in my first post, Nintendo owns a vast character property that is universally identifiable and loved by many. I don't really care if "goofus in doofus land" is "just like" Zelda, it isn't Zelda and fans of Zelda don't give a flying crap about it.

How many good kid games for the Gamecube....how many for the PS2.

"Good" is subjective and usually heavily biased by fanboys. I suspect you wouldn't know a "good" young kids game if it bit you in the ass, as you don't sound like someone who is a young kid or has young kids.

I don't know why Nintendo has such a rep for "family friendly" when Sony has them beat title wise easily.

Because you're doing math, and brand loyalty, character loyalty, and quality of story and gameplay has little to do with math. It's real simple... Say someone made a comicbook character as close to Spider-Man as possible without infringing on Marvel's IP and called him "Arachnid-Man". It would NOT matter how good the writing was, how good the artists were, and how many different offerings they had for the new character, people would still buy Spider-man because that's what they are fans of.

Do you understand this now? A little girl doesn't want "sharbie", she wants "barbie". I don't want a "simtel" processor, I want an "Intel" processor(or to be fair and balanced, I wouldn't want an AMB processor, I would want an AMD processor). Do you get this, or are you still counting titles and doing math?

Re:Are you kidding?

[CronoCloud]

You're right, I don't own a Gamecube. Because there's only 1 or 2 games I want to play on it and that's not enough to justify the purchase. I got burned by the N64.

I like Zelda too, but what happens when you're done playing it and the next new Zelda game won't be out for years. Wouldn't you rather have lots of good games released every month rather than wait and wait and wait.

I like the Nintendo franchises, Super Metroid is still my favorite SNES game. But as I've said they aren't this "perfect game developer" everyone makes them out to be. Super Mario 64 is not the worlds most perfect 3D platform game. IMHO the PS1 Spyro games easily have it beat in playability and quality. Dark Cloud 2 is a better playing and more enjoyable action RPG than Ocarina of Time

    In fact they've been farming out their franchises, the old Nintendo would never have done that, they'd have done them in house because they'd never trust anyone with their valuable characters.

I'm telling you, when it comes to quality, Nintendo isn't ahead of the pack anymore, loved characters or not.

from Joystiq

[drwiii]

1:55 p.m. [update 8]: And the other shoe drops. Famitsu is reporting a December 2 launch and 25,000 yen price for Japan. $215 USD

Re:from Joystiq

[iainl]

They're not getting Wii Sports however, by the sound of it.

Besides, if you really want to get sick about the price of consoles in Japan, look at the 360...

Sweet spot

[trellick]

Have to say, that I think Nintendo have got the pricing just spot on! No only for the console itself, but for the classic games ($5 -> $10), a very very clever strategic move.

No only that, but the price of the new games at ~$10 less than the X360 - gives a clear indication that Nintendo see the X360 as their main competition. Maybe they think that Sony have dropped the ball with their pricing and PR machines!?

No, I'm not a fan boy of any console (in fact I'm a dedicated PC gamer) - but it seems that Nintendo have employed some very smart people for this entire project, considering no-one was really thinking them as a major console player (again) and then last years' E3 and, suddenly, they are ahead of everyone else in terms of buzz. Clever stuff.

Re:Sweet spot

[voice_of_all_reason]

$10 for kid icarus? You've got to be shitting me.

Even for the rare ones, you can most likely pick up NES carts on ebay or at a funcoland-like store for a fraction of that price. Without the piss-poor emulation deficiencies that have plagues previous nintendo rereleases (remember the game boy color Nes Series line?)

I've bought these games once, and played them to death. I've downloaded them again when nesticle came out, and played them to death. Who's the target market here? The nostalgia crowd is savvy enough to pirate old nes games, and the younger crowd is likely to be displeased with the different style of gameplay.

Re:Sweet spot

[Wind_Walker]

NES games: 500 yen (approx. $3.50 USD)
SNES games: 800 yen (approx $7 USD)
N64 games: 1000 yen (approx $8.50 USD)

Those prices are confirmed for Japan, no word yet on US prices (wait until about 10am for that). Personally, at those prices I'll be buying the cream of the crop (FF6, SMB3, etc) but not the lesser-known titles they might put up.

Re:Sweet spot

[SharpFang]

Most likely a month or two after release of the system people will find a way to upload pirated ROMs to Wii, making the service only a source for rare games you can't find ROMs for. But then this still builds the console user base, and encourages you to buy "native" Wii games.

Re:Sweet spot

[slim]

$10 for kid icarus? You've got to be shitting me.

Even for the rare ones, you can most likely pick up NES carts on ebay or at a funcoland-like store for a fraction of that price. Without the piss-poor emulation deficiencies that have plagues previous nintendo rereleases (remember the game boy color Nes Series line?)

I've bought these games once, and played them to death. I've downloaded them again when nesticle came out, and played them to death. Who's the target market here? The nostalgia crowd is savvy enough to pirate old nes games, and the younger crowd is likely to be displeased with the different style of gameplay.


Markets tend to find their own level, and I suspect that over time Nintendo will either introduce bands of prices by popularity, or simply decide that they can live with the number of Kid Icarus sales they get at $10. The Long Tail suggests that there will be some people out there so mad keen on Kid Icarus that they'll go for it even though you or I might perceive it as too expensive.

There's a point on the graph where the [financial cost + convenience + warm fuzzy feeling of being legit] outweighs [ free as in beer + ROM-hunting hassle + warez guilt ] or [ cheap cart + old hardware hassle + clutter ]. Where those graphs cross will depend on the person.

Personally, I've got a chipped Xbox loaded with emulators for all the 8 bit and 16 bit consoles -- but I don't have a large library of ROMs, and the convenience and legitimacy of just turning on a Wii, navigating a menu, being debited some small amount of money, then jumping right into the game appeals very much.

Re:Sweet spot

[Starayo]

I would think they would find whatever exploits people are using to do such things and patch them. Probably with that WiiConnect24 thing.

From the site: " Communication: Wii can communicate with the Internet even when the power is turned off. This WiiConnect24 service delivers a new surprise or game update, even if users do not play with Wii. Users can connect wirelessly using IEEE 802.11b/g, or with a USB 2.0 LAN adaptor. Wii also can communicate wirelessly with Nintendo DS."

Re:Sweet spot

[maxume]

The Gamecube was a success. They made money on it. Lots of money. Nintendo isn't trying to play the market share games that Microsoft and Sony are, they are trying to sell consoles and games that people want to play.

I haven't played either much, but the graphics on the XBox are pretty nice and the graphics on the 360 are even better; I'm not sure what they are going to do for thier next iteration as far as making it more powerful, there just isn't any point to it, the XBox was great, the 360 is just silly. Nintendo is marketing to the huge segment of the population that wants an easy way to play games in their living room but don't care much about how shiny they are as long as they are fun. With any luck, they will realize that the over 30 crowd now has plenty of gamers and loosen up their 'standards'.

Re:Sweet spot

[SharpFang]

Likely this exploit would be achieved by some proxy firewall, a man in the middle attack - and the same firewall could block unwanted updates.

Re:Sweet spot

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you can play the older games!!
I've been using my Dreamcast to play NES and SNES games for about 4 years now.

Re:Sweet spot

[JeTmAn81]

I can only speak for myself but I think most people interested enough in playing these old games are also technically savvy enough to be able to download the ROM's from the internet on their own and play them. With minimal fuss, you can find torrents with the full libraries for the SNES, NES, Genesis, N64, etc. and emulators are even easier to find. I bought two PS2-style USB controllers for my PC ($20 each), and I plug them into the PC and just output that to my TV which sits right next to the computer. Easy gaming. I can say that it's allowed me to play through a lot of classic games I didn't get to play the first time around, like The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past. Well, it's back to Chrono Trigger for me!

Re:Sweet spot

[BTWR]

Well, the retro GBA games from the NES era sold millions, for $19.99 each. So I think that yeah... people will pay to play...

Um, wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's 25,000 yen. The US price is unstated. VC games are 500, 800 and 1000 yen for NES, SNES and N64 respectively. This article was a guess and was deleted/retracted.

Wii or calculus

[Broken scope]

It comes out the night before my 2nd big test........ fuck.... fuck fuck fuck. On a lighter not, i really hope they will have a VGA/DVI adapter as i cannont afford a TV to play it on because i am a poor poor college student.

Re:Wii or calculus

[DAldredge]

How about you don't open the fucking thing till after your test?

Re:Wii or calculus

[nukem996]

Not sure what kind of computer you have but many video cards now have video input. You could even get a cheap TV card and hook it up to your computer.

Re:Wii or calculus

[Anonymous Coward]

God I wish I had mod points. +Funny please

Re:Wii or calculus

[pembo13]

Go to eBay, buy yourself a cheap video card.

Re:Wii or calculus

[Lordpidey]

I remember reading somewhere that the Wii can output to VGA. Found it, http://cube.ign.com/articles/522/522559p2.html halfway down the screen.

Re:Wii or calculus

[GerbilSoft]

Still not as good as a VGA/DVI signal, though. I have a VGA adapter for my Dreamcast (and a modified component cable for my GameCube to output VGA), and it blows composite video away.

Re:Wii or calculus

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the matter... still mad because you have a tiny Wii!?

Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, I'm seeing 25,000 yen and a December 2nd launch date
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/14/nintendo-japan-c onference-not-so-liveblogging/

Re:Hmm

[Wind_Walker]

Hi, that's Japan. The PI article (which has since been pulled) was about the North and South American launch.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:GNAA CLAIMS RESPONSIBILITY FORASASINATION OF IR

[Anonymous Coward]

Please provide a working link for spin.gif, I need it.

Jumping the gun.

[Oscar_Wilde]

Considering that the linked article is gone and that the Japanese launch date is apparently the 2nd of December, I think this whole "Nov 19th, US$250" thing might be jumping the gun slightly.

Re:Jumping the gun.

[LokiTD]

The article is back up as of (at least) 11:45 PST.

article pulled, inaccurate?

[Karma Sucks]

Let's play "spot the pattern."

SNES launch price: 25000 Yen / 200 USD.
N64 launch price: 25000 Yen / 200 USD.
Gamecube launch price: 25000 yen / 200 USD.
Wii launch price: 25000 yen / ??? USD.

Hrm.

Re:article pulled, inaccurate?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know I know!

Re:article pulled, inaccurate?

[Stuart Gibson]

The 25000 yen includes taxes. I'm led to believe that US prices when quoted exclude tax? (Correct me if I'm wrong). But it seems perfectly possible that 25000 inc translates easily to $200 ex (according to www.xe.com 25000 yen is about $212).

Re:article pulled, inaccurate?

[Lordpidey]

Dude, gamecube's launch price was $200, not $250.

Re:article pulled, inaccurate?

[Garse Janacek]

Of course, it's also been a while since there was a bundled game with a Nintendo console. If that's true, it certainly explains a >$200 price.

Re:article pulled, inaccurate?

[yarbo]

It's pretty much unheard of for things sold in the US to include tax in the price.

Console War? ~Yawn~

[FalleStar]

About a year ago I couldn't wait to get my hands on my Wii ( : D ) but now that the "Next-Gen" is here I really don't care. None of the systems in this generation have really shown me anything to justify a purchase. I will be pulling for Nintendo though, it seems that at least they're trying to innovate rather than just pump out an extra 10,000,000,000,000 polygons like the others. I'll happily stick to my PC and play games of similar quality without dropping $500 on a new system. Besides, good luck finding a halfway decent MMORPG on a console.

Pricing Info

[DeanCubed]

It's a little hard to access all the info so far, so here it is. In US$: Wii-Mote: $35 Nunchuck: $20 Virtual Console Controller: $20 Wii Sports on its own: $40 Most Wii Games: $50 In Japan, the Wii comes out on Dec. 2, for 25000 Yen (212 $US) and comes with a single Wiimote. In North America, the Wii comes out on Nov. 18, for $250 US ($299 CDN) and comes with two Wiimotes, and Wii Sports (a compilation of golf, baseball, tennis, bowling, and boxin)

Re:Pricing Info

[buswolley]

Ahh that explains the extra price in America.. I don't care about the wii without two wii-motes.

UPDATE

[VirusEqualsVeryYes]

The Wii will NOT come with Wii Sports. It will be sold separately for 4800 yen (probably around $40).

This is the press release (in Japanese) showing what comes with the Wii. No Wii Sports.

Re:UPDATE

[Anonymous Coward]

Those links are for the release in Japan. The US release will have Wii Sports. They are allowed to offer different packages for sale in different markets, you know...

New date is because of the sony delay

[blanks]

FTA it says the new ship date is because Sony has again pushed off their shipping date because of bluray problems.  Should be really good for Nintendo.  Not sure if SOny will make it for xmas time, but if they dont they will lose alot.

Seems false to me

[busydoingnothing]

I'm watching the semi-live blog at Joystiq.com, and it seems that what has been announced in Japan negates what this article states. They are saying a launch date of December 2nd, price of 25,000 yen (includes tax), and no Wii Sports pack-in. Is this the same Nintendo event that 1UP.com was talking about a few weeks ago?

Re:Seems false to me

[Wind_Walker]

The article this was referencing was specifically talking about the North American release of the console. Joystiq is talking about the Japanese launch.

But if you want to wait for confirmation, Reggie will be delivering his own press conference at 9am this morning. That should help to clear up any confusion.

A little Family Guy for ya.

[Wind_Walker]

The post-PS3 launch does seem a bit odd, since they had previously stated that they would be at market before the PS3. It could be that Nintendo saw the problems Sony is having with meeting production quotas and having to slash their deliveries, and are banking on something like....

Tom Tucker: "Our top story tonight, more video game news just two days after riots destroyed many gaming storefronts from the unexpectedly horrible launch of the Playstation 3. Diane has more, Diane?"

Diane Simmons: "Thanks Tom. Wii. Sure it sounds like a penis, but what else is it? It's the new Nintendo console and it's causing quite a stir. We now go live to Asian reporter Trisha Takinawa for a report, Trisha?"

Trisha Takinawa: "Thank you Diane. Nintendo released the strangely-named console today to rave reviews. As you can see here, waving around this long slender shaft causes action to occur on-screen. It's quite a reversal from the usual manner of things. Retailers report they have plenty of Wii to go around, and that it's something people just can't wait to get their hands on. Personally I bought two and will be using them tonight in the privacy of my bedroom. Tom?"

Glenn Quagmire: "Giggedy giggedy giggedy."

Re:A little Family Guy for ya.

[rmccann]

The post-PS3 launch does seem a bit odd, since they had previously stated that they would be at market before the PS3.

They wii will be out before the PS3 everywhere that isn't USA or Japan.

www.wii.com

[Frag-A-Muffin]

is now live!!!

www.wii.com

Re:www.wii.com

[Wind_Walker]

Great videos on that site, even if they're all in Japanese right now

Wii Menu
Wii Web Browser/News Channel
Wii Weather

Re:www.wii.com

[Anthony Boyd]

I like this new video too. Looks fun. -Tony

Re:www.wii.com

[KozmoStevnNaut]

OMG! After the Project H.A.M.M.E.R. bit and just before the Zelda bit, there was sort of a flyby of the Resident Evil REmake version of the Spencer Mansion...

RE1, remade RE4 style? It can't be true. It's just way too cool to be true.

Re:www.wii.com

[moochfish]

Talk about unexpected features...

Check out the videos on this page, especially the ones near the bottom. Notice the relatively advanced photo editing features!

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/topics/wii_preview/p resentation/07.html

These videos show some pretty amazing functionality. Sony is probably pretty scared right now.

Re:www.wii.com

[Anonymous Coward]

>> Wii Weather [wii.com]

Scorchio!!!!

th-th-th-th-th-th!!

Re:www.wii.com

[toonworld]

WAAAAHHHH!!! Stop spinning the planet like that!!! I feel so dizzy.... oh I think I'm gonna puke! :D

Re:www.wii.com

[toonworld]

After years of searching, I have found true love... with a machine! Go figure

FALSE

[satoshi1]

All false guys! http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/14/nintendo-japan-c onference-not-so-liveblogging/ Check it out.

Re:FALSE

[Anonymous Coward]

Ouch. Looks like a december 2 launch and no included sports game, instead it will cost 4800 yen. No big deal but I was hoping to pick one up at the end of october.

Re:FALSE

[Megane]

(ahem) --> IN JAPAN <--

The US announcement is supposed to be today. Apparently they are going to release it in the US first, which is unusual for Nintendo. The Japanese game companies usually release in Japan first, people go nuts importing systems that won't work with games from their own country (when released), then there is a US release. The PS3 and Wii being released first in the US is definitely a change from the past.

Exchange rates?

[Pacifist Brawler]

SNES US release date: Aug 21, 1991 Exchange rate: 1991-08-01 136.82 yen/USD
N64 US relase date: Sept 29, 1996 Exchange rate: 1996-10-01 112.41 yen/USD
Gamecube US release date: Nov 18, 2001 Exchange rate: 2001-12-01 127.59 yen/USD
Wii US release date: Nov 19, 2006 Exchange rate: 2006-09-13 117.47 yen/USD

So, yes a good guess for the launch price would be 200 USD.

However, various sources disagree.

Re:Exchange rates?

[Stuart Gibson]

Sources also suggest that the US version includes two controllers and Wii Sports, which could make up the difference.

Re:Exchange rates?

[tighr]

My Super NES at launch came with two controllers and a game for $199. Not that I don't think the Wii will be $250 with Wii sports, because it probably will, but just citing a previous example.

Snakes on a Plane of consoles

[Anonymous Coward]

Wii will be the Snakes on a Plane of consoles. All this internet buzz, but when it comes to actual sales...fratboys are going to buy xbox360s or ps3s. simple.

Re:Snakes on a Plane of consoles

[nlawalker]

I wonder if the fun-value of what the Wii does will actually make inroads to the "fratboys." In my experience, the PS2 had nothing on the Xbox when it came to that market demographic, mainly because the Xbox had 4 controller ports, Halo and Halo 2, a few racing and sports (football/basketball, mostly) games, and a network connection. Mod-chip-ability didn't hurt either, what with all the pirated media that floats around college students and the availability of emulators and media centers for modded Xboxes. Sure, the Cube had 4 controller ports, but the Cube didn't really have anything going for it other than a certain look and feel that didn't appeal to the 20-somethings. Anyways, it's amazing how often three or four people are sitting around a fraternity with nothing to do and and say "hey, lets play Halo." A lot of those people play Halo simply because other people have it and that's what there is to play that's quick, fun and easy to set up multiplayer. Halo is an FPS, so it's got instant gratification - no running laps or collecting 100 items. Microsoft sealed the deal with this demographic by giving them something fun to do that required no commitment - a multiplayer toy. It hit so hard that it achieved credibility through sheer force - many people would now rather play the Xbox version of any game rather than the PS2 version because "they like the Xbox controller better," or just because the Xbox is so much cooler. I tell people all the time it's funny to me that they seem so enthralled with 4 or 8 player or online deathmatch when college aged PC gamers have been doing it since they could figure out how to install Quake years and years ago, but the Xbox brought it to the TV screen for four people in the same room. Goldeneye did it too, and Goldeneye was just as big in it's heyday as Halo is now. The only difference is that Halo is capitalizing on its success to a much greater extent.

Now, we have the Wii: 4 players, all wireless controllers. Network connection. Kiddy look-and-feel and kiddy games? Sure, but there's nothing stopping anyone from publishing more adult-oriented content. What may turn out to be more important are casual games - simple sports games, Warioware type stuff, Super Monkey Ball. Stuff you can play with other people on a Saturday afternoon when there's nothing else to do. So, someone tries their kid sister's Wii at home or a friend buys one, a few people try it and voila - it's a blast with a few friends. Have a few beers and play Warioware (I see an entirely new generation of drinking games on the horizon involving Wii mini-game type games that involve steady hands), or swordfight with your friends. Yes, "serious" gamers will stand in the corner and say "I'll stick with my adult-looking controller and mature games, thank you." But the Wii is saying "ah, just come try me! I'm a fun toy."

Now, take all the people that didn't buy an Xbox360 or won't buy a PS3 for its expense, or lack of games, or whatever reason. Sure, the Wii looks fun, it's got that remote control gimmick. But wait, it's only $250. AND it has all the sports games the other consoles have. No, it doesn't have Halo 3, but Jake down the hall already has a 360. Why not just save some money, get a Wii to play Madden 200X and pretend not to notice it doesn't have as many polygons, and on the side, pick up a couple of those gimmick games? Maybe it'll help turn my room into a cool place for people to hang out during the evening (this is a huge driving force in fraternities and the like: people want "the party room" or "the chill room.").

I think Nintendo's got the classic name brand, the intelligence, and the market position to really hit a home run here. The console playing field has levelled out like it never has before: the processing and graphics technology is no longer adding to gameplay. No one can seem to make a genre-buster anymore. Madden sells like hotcakes simply because it doesn't make sense to play last year's version if you can have this year's for only 35 bucks, and Halo 3 will succeed because people

Re:Snakes on a Plane of consoles

[Anonymous Coward]

Stupid comparison...

Snakes on a MF plane is a silly example of internet hype.... The internet was "hyped" about it and everybody knew about it... but did anyone actually want to see it? no. The Wii is different...

Re:Snakes on a Plane of consoles

[k_187]

Three Words: Super Smashed Bros.

You die, you drink.

The price is right

[LKM]

Personally, I was still hoping for $150. Their mistake.

You can thank Sony and Microsoft for that. With the Xbox and the PS3 so expensive, there's not a whole lot of reason for Nintendo to go too low with the price. Besides, if the price is too low compared to the competition, customers will perceive it as being "cheap" and thus not worthy of their attention. Anyway, it's not going to matter. Nintendo will sell a shitload of these at US$250. They would sell a shitload at US$350, I guess. I know I'll buy one as soon as I can.

And since they bundle a game (I'd have bought the Sports game if it wasn't bundled), it's not a bad deal anyway.

Re:The price is right

[master_p]

And for the price of one PS3, you can buy Wii and have $350 to buy lots of fun games to play...

Re:The price is right

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

Also for the price of the high-end PS3 you can by a Wii, an XBox 360 Core, and one game.

Re:The price is right

[araemo]

Also for the price of the high-end PS3 you can by a Wii, an XBox 360 Core, and one game.
And then you can sigh and wish you had bought a hard drive too. ;)

Re:The price is right

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

True, so as thing stand today you can get a Wii and XBox Core + HD for $50 more than the PS3. However, I'm really expecting MS to announce a price drop within the next month or so (I think they've been waiting for the offical Wii pricing). I'd really be pretty suprised now that the Wii is just $50 cheaper than the Core system that MS didn't knock $50 of both models. So the Core will be the same price. And of course that would also mean you could get a Wii and a 360 Premium for the price of a PS3.

Article is still live

[Anonymous Coward]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/285027_nint endo14.html

Newsflash

[Anonymous Coward]

The November 19th launch is before Thanksgiving.

Re:Newsflash

[galgon]

Yes, Nov. 19th is before Thanksgiving. I was going off the Japan Launch date of Dec. 2nd that was officially announced at 2am today. I never thought they would release Wii in the US before Japan but I guess I was wrong.

There was a Miyamoto interview that addressed this

[Anonymous Coward]

When Miyamoto told the reporter at the NYT that the new Nintendo console would cost $250USD, the reporter asked why it was $50 higher than previous Nintendo consoles. Miyamoto said it was due to differences in the exchange rate. So the reporter said "Fluctuations?"

Miyamoto replied "Fluck you Amelicans too!"

Rumor has it that this incident is why the Wii is being shipped later than expected too. I guess he's still a little bitter.

Are you insane?

[LKM]

Is anybody really interested in buying a Wii?

Are you insane? This is the first time I'm actually excited about a console since first playing with my friend's NES! I mean, we've been playing the same games over and over for the last 20 years. For the first time since the Atari 2600, there's something truly new and exciting happening. I'll probably buy three of them (one for my living room, one for my bedroom and one for my girlfriend's place).

Re:Are you insane?

[rbarreira]

Do you really need two equal consoles in one house? :S

Re:Are you insane?

[ansible]

Yeah, seriously. The guy claims to have a girlfriend. There are more important things to do in the bedroom than play video games.

Re:Are you insane?

[LKM]

Do you really need two equal consoles in one house? :S

Do I need them? No.

Re:Are you insane?

[LKM]

Yeah, seriously. The guy claims to have a girlfriend. There are more important things to do in the bedroom than play video games.

If you had continued to use your deductive abilities, you'd have figured out that since I'll buy her her own Wii, she's not living at my place, which means she won't sleep in my bedroom every night, which means I'll have plenty of time to play with my own Wii.

Uhm.. You get what I mean.

Re:Are you insane?

[Psychotext]

You know, if you do it all the time sex can indeed be boring. It's only the people that aren't getting enough of it (Married men / stereotypical geeks) that think otherwise!

Re:Are you insane?

[CronoCloud]

I wouldn't exactly call playing 20 year old games on your very new console, "new".

And nobody is going to want to swing that wimote around for 4 hours at a time. One of the raasons the NES was such a sucess was the fact that the controller lent itself to longer games because it was much less fatigueing than the old 2600 style joysticks. It's a good idea, just not well though out, like the N64's uncomfortable analog stick, too small "camera" buttons and bulk.

  They should keep that crazy Miyamoto away from the controller designers, designing acontroller with a new Zelda/mario in mind does not make it a good controller for games that are not Zelda/Mario

Re:Are you insane?

[Glamdr1Ng]

I'm gonna have to say the worst part of this anouncment was the Nov. 19th release date. Freaking 2 months away... pisses me off.

Re:Are you insane?

[Anonymous Coward]

I believed you until you said you had a girlfriend.

Re:Are you insane?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if you're doing it incorrectly.

The first one is always free.

[SharpFang]

That would be a bad marketing move.
I couldn't care less about the sports game, I hate sports games. And in this case I'll be perfectly satisfied with one controller - I might get the "classic" one too to play classic games. Now if they bundled another wiimote, I'd likely just sell it. I really don't want and don't need it. Overbundling is bad - price rises and user gets lots of junk they don't want.

Re:The first one is always free.

[toolie]

Get some friends. They'd likely enjoy using the 2nd controller while you use the first.

Re:The first one is always free.

[ElleyKitten]

Wii Sports is not a sports game like Madden. Nintendo's sports games tend to be crazy fun w/ friends, but less than stellar single player. Having a second controller is a really good idea for Wii Sports. If it comes with two, you can always invite over a friend or hand it off to a family member and you'd probably have a great time. Unless you're really, really not into multiplayer games, in which case you'd be better off waiting for FFXIII and getting a PS3.

PS3 to cure cancer, not Wii!

[LKM]

Nintendo fanboys have concluded that the Wii will cure cancer.

Uhm... No, that was the PS3. And I'm not even joking.

Wii impresses with WiFi??? Are you kidding?

[LKM]

I really wasn't all that impressed with it. Well, besides the WiFi

You're looking at the Wii, and you're impressed with the WiFI? You've got to be kidding me.

Re:Wii impresses with WiFi??? Are you kidding?

[Negatyfus]

Yeah, but now you can call it WiiFi!

Re: HA HA HA!

[dch24]

Oh man! *wipes tears from eyes* Is it just how late it is here? Did I really use up my last mod point? Sorry, that was funny!

Not really

[LKM]

$5-$10 virtual console games.

500 yen for NES games, 800 yen for SNES games, 1000 yen for N64 games. Sounds fair to me. Sure, it's about 100% profit margin, but to me these games are worth more than they're asking for, so I don't mind it.

Re:Not really

[CmdrTacoBell]

What I was really hoping for was a subscription service where for, say $20 a month, I could play the entire library over the net on the Wii. That would kick ass. I love classic gaming but lose interest too quickly and need a large selection to keep me going.

Re:Not really

[MindStalker]

They are apparently being smart about it. They realize that with a large selection of classic games people will lose interest. Apparently they are going to let the classic games trickle out slowly so they can feature the game of the week and get people interested in whatever game they are releasing.

Article currently offline, but the site admits it.

[Anonymous Freak]

While the actual linked article is offline, if you go to the PI's Business Section page, you can see it listed in their 'most read' listing on the right. (A summary is also still present on their RSS feed.)

Okay...

[Captain Irreverence]

If the wii is launching in the US on November 19th at a cost of $250, then why does the Nintendo Japan page for the wii http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/index.html say "2006 12.2 Start?" And why does Amazon list the Gamecube verson of Zelda: Twilight Princess as available on Nov 2nd? Wouldn't both versions likely launch at the same time?

And didn't Nintendo say they'd launch before the PS3?

And didn't they hint that the launch price of the wii might be determined by looking at the launch prices of their previous consoles (all of which launched at $200?)

I dunno, but I'd still put my money on an early November launch with a $200 price point.

Re:Okay...

[badboy_tw2002]

I'll take that bet! (Note: I'm posting FROM THE LAND OF TOMMOROW!)

I am excited

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not only impressed and excited, but I'm anxious to get my hands on one. As a cube owner I swore off Nintendo, the game roll out was slow, and I saw them going the same direction the dreamcast did. After seeing N's e3 briefing my mind was completely turned around. Being able to perform game actions and hear the appropriate sound from the control can defineatly add a degree of realizm. Additionally, while it may not have the graphics monster of the 360 or ps3 they aren't doing HD either, freeing them from needing a monster video chip, and well.... my TV scales down nicely.

Still $200?

[hords]

I have to wonder if the price is really going to be $250 in North America. I read that the $212.50 price for Japan INCLUDES tax. I'm still hoping for the lower price point we've heard rumors of. I'll be buying one either way, I just want Nintendo to kick butt this time around!

Re:Console War? ~Yawn~

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to agree. I yawned at Xbox 360 and at PlayStation 3. When all the Revolution poored in over the last 2 E3s, I was pumped. So unique, stylish, and probably cheap. It was different.

But now, I'm yawning. Yeah, it's innovative, but so what? None of the launch titles seem all that appealing. So I can literally point-and-shoot to kill instead of point-and-click (or worse yet on consoles). It doesn't change the experience THAT much. Then again, I haven't actually played it yet.

Maybe I'm just getting older. I'm going to go practice saying "Whippersnappers!".

(Brain Age on DS, however, is the perfect time waster!)

Damn you Sony!!!

[nobodyman]

Had Sony not priced the PS3 at $600-friggin-dollars and shipped on time, I'm convinced that the Wii would have been $200 and that the Xbox360 would have seen a fall price drop.

So, thanks Sony. Not only do you suck, but you suck so bad that you've created a halo-effect that causes your competetors to suck also.

Re:Damn you Sony!!!

[Mongoose]

You're blaming Sony for this? Wow, that's pretty funny. It might just be a problem with production, which is very common with consoles -- not just PS3. Can you even remember the 360 launch, or any console before? Don't buy into the rumors you create on internet forums is the lesson to learn here. Just because everyone says a console will be $150 and have a magical flute controller doesn't make it so...

Re:Damn you Sony!!!

[dolson]

So... wait. You're saying that the Wii does NOT include a magical flute controller?

What a scam.

Wii Sports

[Bethor]

Accoring to Nintendo's Japanese site, Wii Sports will *not* come bundled with the machine.
Either the American news sites got it wrong, or its only bundled in the US package.

Re:Wii Sports

[pembo13]

It is only in American bundles.

This is rumor fodder.

[Bones3D_mac]

The article is based on speculation made / info obtained from a "reliable source" prior to the Japan event.

The Japan event placed the system at a launch point of 25,000 yen ($212 USD) on December second for Japan. If Nintendo follows the same pattern it used for the DS, I'd say the system is likely to ship close to November 15th at a price point of $200. While it seems like Nintendo won't have too many problems selling the system even at $250, I'm betting they will round the price down for the US market. (After all, $199.95 sounds a hell of a lot cheaper than $2**.95, especially for a thrifty-minded parent that's already struggling with our current gas prices.)

Metroid

[7Prime]

I have a bad feeling that Metroid Prime 3 is going to be delayed until 2007, you'd think that this would have been announced by now if it was. There were rumors of its delay before, now it seems they may be true. Ah well, it'll take me a while to finish up Twilight Princess and probably Final Fantasy XII (doubt I'll finish it in 3 weeks), so I'll probably be set until January, but a Metroid launch title would have been a good boost for Nintendo.

Re:Metroid

[BenjyD]

Metroid Prime 3 isn't on the Japanese launch list, unfortunately. It's still not a bad list, as long as Red Steel is reasonable and Elebits is as much fun as it looks.

Re:Metroid

[ChetOS.net]

The only way I could justify getting it is if Metroid is available when it is released.

If it isn't, I may never buy one.

Re:Metroid

[7Prime]

Now that's just some strange logic, I can understand being a huge Metroid fan and not interested in the launch titles, and holding out until Metroid 3 comes out... but what's with the "Now or Never at All" additude? If you WANT to play Metroid Prime 3, just consider it's release date your personal Wii release date, and get it then. Unless, are you about to head off to Africa shortly after the Wii launch or something? Or is it out of spite because you feel that this, in some ways, reflects some problem with Nintendo's additude?

And yes, it's been confirmed Metroid Prime 3 is not a launch title, and is delayed until 2007.

European Release Date?

[rEWDBOi]

Okay, so now we have release dates for Japan und North America. What about Europe though? Any ideas/clues/hints? Lemme guess, it's gonna be released on Dec. 23rd at 300 EUR excluding Wiimote and Game?
Say it ain't so. I don't wanna have to order at Lik-Sang, forcing me in turn buy imported games for the rest of my life. Well, Wii's life, that is.

And no, waiting for a (probably) late European release is _not_ an option..

Re:European Release Date?

[Anonymous Coward]

What about Europe though?

As I used to tell my rural friends when they bitched about not being able to get DSL or cable modems... "Move out of the sticks bub". Have you considered immigrating to a first world nation like the United States, Canada, or Japan?

Re:European Release Date?

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems like the price of freedom (from over zealous government spying, idiotic presidents etc) is delayed console launches.

I'll go with freedom and accept getting a console later, kthnxbye.

Re:European Release Date?

[rEWDBOi]

I'll go with freedom and accept getting a console later, kthnxbye.

I don't know, that's a hard decision, to be honest. Something I'm not used to, since in Communist Europe, choices make you.

No Nunchuk?

[BenjyD]

Looking at the summary here and here, the pictures seem to indicate that the Wii doesn't ship with a Nunchuk attachment in the box, it's sold seperately for 1,800 Yen. That seems a bit odd, given how many games we've seen that use it. Can anybody who reads Japanese clarify that?

I have to say the rest of the demonstration looks pretty impressive, though.

Re:No Nunchuk?

[Z80a]

direct from the stream stuff: 2:06 a.m. EST [update 10]: The press release is up. It lists the contents of the Wii box: Wii console, Wii remote (w/ strap), nunchuck attachment, Wii AC adaptor, Wii A/V cable, Wii console stand(?), sensor bar, sensor bar stand and two AA batteries. Also, it seems the 25,000 yen price includes tax.

fp

[Anonymous Coward]

final post

No way

[91degrees]

It's too expensive. Nintendo spent way too much money on this, and nobody will be able to afford it. And where's the innovation that Nintendo are meant to give us? They just do the same thing they did before. Yet another new controller. A ploy to repeat past success.

I'll wait for the PS3. I can get one of them for less than the cost of an XBox 360 + a Wii. And there's some serious innocvation going on there.

Re:No way

[TeraCo]

I'll wait for the PS3. I can get one of them for less than the cost of an XBox 360 + a Wii. And there's some serious innocvation going on there.

So, how much are sony paying you to hump that dog?

Re:No way

[LazyEmc2]

Dude I don't know where your internet tubes get their information, but my money is on Bizarroland. I know it early in the morning, but holy hell you almost made my head explode with your anti-knowledge. In other news I have a beach property in South Dakota I'd like to sell you, YOU are going to LOVE it in the winter. No if you'll excuse me I have to shower...I feel dirty...my head hurts...

Re:No way

[91degrees]

Are you a rabid Nintendo fanboy or something? Hope you like your underpoered system.

Re:No way

[91degrees]

No. I'm not wrong. You're wrong. Nyah!

Re:No way

[LazyEmc2]

Ummm... Touchè?

P.S. Thanks for proving my point.

Re:No way

[91degrees]

My rebuttal of your rebuttal adressed every single point you made.

Re:No way

[LazyEmc2]

::sigh:: I was hoping to avoid this(because this has been repeated a million times), but here goes:

"It's too expensive. Nintendo spent way too much money on this, and nobody will be able to afford it."

$250 vs $500-600 Real world: $250 is less than $500 Bizzaroland: $250 is more than $500

Nobody can afford $250 but $500 is copacetic?

"And where's the innovation that Nintendo are meant to give us? They just do the same thing they did before. Yet another new controller...I'll wait for the PS3... And there's some serious innocvation going on there."

Nintendo innovation = changing the way games are played. PS3 innovation = SHINY! Oh! Oh! We have motion sensitivity too...NO! its not the same. Ours is "Innovative," not that gimmicky crap Nintendo is pulling! Sheesh!

I guess different strokes but come on! Which one is truly innovative...

"I can get one of them for less than the cost of an XBox 360 + a Wii."

You are comparing the price of two consoles to one. Shady bookkeeping at best.

Disclaimer: I plan on buying a PS3 as soon as FFXIII comes out, because it makes me happy. I will feel a bit dirty, but the giddy boy inside me won't care.

Re:No way

[91degrees]

$250 vs $500-600 Real world: $250 is less than $500 Bizzaroland: $250 is more than $500

But very few people seem to want a Wii as their only console. $250 vs. $0 is a lot. Especially after buying a powerful console that's more than twice the power of the previous generation.

Nintendo innovation = changing the way games are played. PS3 innovation = SHINY! Oh! Oh! We have motion sensitivity too...NO! its not the same. Ours is "Innovative," not that gimmicky crap Nintendo is pulling! Sheesh!

Well, a sophisitcated multiporcessor system is hardly run of the mill. They do have a higher density drive that is considerably more advanced than a DVD. It does have Hi def support (granted also on the X-Box360 but not the Wii). And they're really pushing developers to invest in AI.

Nintendo have given us a motion sensing controller, which may or may not be utilised by gmes. It may end up as a mouse or joypad for all we know. And that's it. Why not just sell it as an add-on for the gamecube?

You are comparing the price of two consoles to one. Shady bookkeeping at best.

Well, okay. Less than a Wii and any other device with HDTV output. The 360 is the cheapest device that boasts that.

Re:No way

[igorthefiend]

Where on earth is the -5 fanboy logic mod option when you need it?

Re:No way

[91degrees]

You think I should be modded down because I don't subscribe to Slashdot Groupthink. That's an interesting opinion. Tell me more.

Re:No way

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

"But very few people seem to want a Wii as their only console. $250 vs. $0 is a lot. Especially after buying a powerful console that's more than twice the power of the previous generation."

You've got a statistical study to back that statement up? Or are you basing this on your small group of friends or what you've read in comments posted on Slashdot? Come on...

Re:No way

[91degrees]

I'm basing this on what I've heard and what I know. Do you have any evidence to counter it, or are you just using the debating technique of Argumentum ad ignorantiam?

Re:No way

[Masque Noir]

No I think his point was to mod you down because you are not making any sense at all...

Re:No way

[KillerBob]

You're right... they aren't being innovative. They're going back to the 1980's with some of their thinking... Specifically... a game console for everybody (FamiCom anybody?), at a price that a huge portion of the market can easily afford. Oh, and cheaper games, too.

See... Nintendo has realized that you don't need high quality graphics to have fun. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that the graphics in the Wii will be much improved over their older offerings, but they don't need to break the bank on an 8-core graphics processor that costs more than the rest of the system put together. Instead... they're focusing on making the games fun, and accessable. What a novel concept.

Where's the innovation? Where's the need for innovation? They've taken a page from Apple and thrown in an iTMS-like ROM download service. Last I checked, you can't download old XBox games for $5 from XBox Live. Do you honestly think that the price is going to remain constant, or that the 30 games they're announcing today are going to be it, forever, never to be increased? They've taken a page from WebTV, too. They've designed the thing so that you can browse the Internet with it. Why not? If there's an online service to purchase/download old games, it's connected to the 'net anyway. Neither of these are actual innovations, but can you please point me to another game console that implements these features and costs less than $300, taxes included? (and comes with a game...)

And the Wii-mote looks pretty fun to me. I'm looking forward to messing up my friends' game by grabbing and shaking his arm while we're in competition, or playing that sword game with it. Even that type of controller isn't a *new* idea... you've been able to buy computer mice that use the same technology for over 10 years.

Re:No way

[TeraCo]

What? No, I'm a PC gamer. Not getting any consoles. I'm just enjoying the way you're saying "Oh, this system is cheaper than these TWO other systems put together."

Re:No way

[KillerBob]

I'm basing this on what I've heard and what I know. Do you have any evidence to counter it, or are you just using the debating technique of Argumentum ad ignorantiam?

Ah. Then all I need to do is provide a counter-example.... Fair enough.

I haven't owned a gaming console since the 8-bit NES. I got into computer gaming, and real life sports/other activities. I'm seriously considering buying a Wii. Whether or not I actually do buy one will depend on whether my apartment-mate can be convinced to fork over his share of the cost (which, given that Madden will be available for the Wii, is a distinct possibility). Neither of us have plans at all to buy either an XBox 360 or a PS3. Why? They're too expensive, especially for something I wouldn't use more than a few hours a week.

Oh, and before you start bitching about picture quality... I don't care. I honestly don't care whether my game console displays graphics at 1080p resolution or not. I've got a 65" High Def TV, and the only time I care about picture quality is when I'm watching sattelite TV or DVDs. When I'm playing a game, I'm not going to pause the action so I can ogle the scenery, or count the number of jaggies so I can write a blog posting about how crappy the anti-aliasing is, I'm going to, you know, play the game. I only care if it's fun. If it looks great, too, then wonderful. But I'm not going to spend more than twice as much on a console just to have it look better. Graphics simply aren't that important to me.

Re:No way

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

"I'm basing this on what I've heard and what I know."

So you're pulling it out of thin air; thus there is no reason to believe that your statement regarding how most people view the Wii as a second console choice holds any weight. Glad we got that cleared up.

"Do you have any evidence to counter it, or are you just using the debating technique of Argumentum ad ignorantiam?

You're the one making the wild, unfounded claim. The duty is on you to prove your claim, not for me to disprove it. You're trying to make an argument here. Unless you can convince me that people are viewing the Wii as a second console choice then your argument fails.

You don't know anything about debate.

Re:No way

[ElleyKitten]

But very few people seem to want a Wii as their only console. $250 vs. $0 is a lot.

But do people want only a PS3 or only a 360? I love the Dead or Alive series, and I love the Final Fantasy series. So I want both a PS3 and a 360 (barring any exclusivity changes). Unfortunately for me, there's no way I can afford a $400 or $600 console, so I'm not getting either until a price drop. I can, however, afford a $250 console, so I will likely be getting a Wii. That will give me a lot of gaming fun until the 360 and PS3 have dropped down to something reasonable. I have no idea why you're trying to argue that getting a PS3 is the affordable option.

Well, okay. Less than a Wii and any other device with HDTV output. The 360 is the cheapest device that boasts that.

Uh, yeah. The PS3 is cheaper than the Wii PLUS something expensive. My Toyota is cheaper than a Wii plus a BMW. Most people don't have HDTV, so why would most people buy a Wii and something with HDTV output. What you're saying is "I want my shiney sparkles" which is perfectly fine, but say that, don't say "my shiney sparkles are cheaper" because they're not.

Re:No way

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"I'll wait for the PS3. I can get one of them for less than the cost of an XBox 360 + a Wii. And there's some serious innocvation going on there."

Like real-time weapon switch?

Re:No way

[brkello]

Comparing downloading old 8 bit games for 5 bucks to downloading XBox games from the previous generation is probably the dumbest thing I have read for awhile. Can you download gamecube games for $5? That's the true comparison. If it wasn't for XBox, you wouldn't even be getting this service. It took the XBox to wake Nintendo up to the fact that people are ready for their consoles to be online.

You guys are like a bunch of crooked politicians putting positive spin on things that can not be put in a positive light. Like saying "collateral damage" instead of "killed innocent civilians". Having the worst graphics of the generation is not a positive thing. It does not mean more of a focus on quality games. You guys have said this so many times you actually believe it. The console is just a box of potential. The games are where you get your gameplay. I have no doubt that Nintendo (the software sector of the company) will make fun games. But that has very little to do with the console having the worst specs on the market. The only way this argument can slightly hold is if it makes the Nintendo easier to program for than the other two consoles. I am sure we will find out soon what the devs think.

Is this a game console for everyone? No, not really. It has the potential to reach some new markets depending on the games...but it still has to she it's kiddy image. It's hard to see Dick Cheny playing with the Wii.

What Nintendo has really realized is that they can sell their consoles for a profit if they give up trying to be cutting edge. It's a good position to be in. It makes them look like the good guys when they are actually profiting more off you than MS or Sony.

Nintendo stands a better chance this round than the last one, no doubt. But really, try to tone down the fanboyism.

Re:No way

[Kelbear]

I think he's going for sarcasm since it's a parody of other common sayings about these next-gen consoles.

Re:No way

[Anonymous Coward]

"But can you please point me to another game console that implements these features and costs less than $300, taxes included? (and comes with a game...)"

Dreamcast had a web browser. PSP has one built in. DS has one (in Japan only at the moment). All under $300.
Consoles are almost always sold bundled with games, packing one in makes very little difference. You save a bit on packaging and distribution, you annoy people who don't want that game.
Xbox Live Arcade lets you download some classic games (Frogger, Scramble, Street Fighter 2 etc), just like the Virtual Console will. The Wii should do the retro thing better, since they have Nintendo first party games, a controller designed for it, you don't need a memory card (you do with the core 360), and apparently will have a bigger selection.
PSP is supposed to allow you to download old PS1 games in a few months, hasn't happened yet though.

You could also buy a second-hand PC with TV-out from ebay for $250 and get a USB gamepad and a GameTap subscription. Much better web browing experience, great retro gaming including classic PC-only titles, but you can't play the latest games and it'll be a bit noisy, ugly and power-hungry. Doesn't come with a pack-in game but there are loads of great freeware games out there. Freeciv, Stepmania, Neverball, Nexuiz, Parsec 47 etc.

Re:No way

[91degrees]

A counter example only works if the assertion was a "for all". I believe I said "Most".

And if graphics have so little importance, why does anyone want a Wii in the first place? Why couldn't nintendo add the controller to the GC? Seems to be the only thing going for it.

Re:No way

[91degrees]

So you're pulling it out of thin air; thus there is no reason to believe that your statement regarding how most people view the Wii as a second console choice holds any weight. Glad we got that cleared up.

Bizarre interpretaion.

No. I'm basing it on general evidence I have available. Discussion forums such as this one, people I know. Nobody seems to want a Wii on its own.

You're the one making the wild, unfounded claim.

It's not unfounded. You assumed (Pretty much correctly) that I based this on my small group of friends and what I read on Slashdot. That, and a substantial part of the market for the gamecube was people who had another console. Even if this is not a totally representative sample, this does not imply that the actual data is the exact opposite.

Re:No way

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

"You assumed (Pretty much correctly) that I based this on my small group of friends and what I read on Slashdot."

That sample group is so flawed that I don't understand how you could even believe that it represents anything. Do you know anything about statistics?

"That, and a substantial part of the market for the gamecube was people who had another console."

Past precedence is hardly a good indicator in the console market. In fact, from Atari to Nintendo to Sony, the dominate console manufacturer has repeatedly shifted.

"Even if this is not a totally representative sample,"

Not a totally representative sample? Ha, it's the most flawed sample you could have come up with. Let's see - your group of friends; most likely a group of people in the same age category, market demographic, and general location. Yeah, that's not really going to be useful for considering global sales. And then people on Slashdot - completely worthless since you don't know anything about the people except that they represent a very small percentage of gamers who take part in Internet discussions on gaming. To say that your sample is not "totally representative" is an understatement my friend.

"this does not imply that the actual data is the exact opposite."

Nor did I say it did. The fact is that your little statistical study is so flawed that it is neither a proof for or against the idea that the Wii is nothing more than a second console purchase for most people. My entire thesis was that you cannot make such a statement because you don't have the data to support it either way. Goodness...if you're just trolling here, you've completely baited me.

It will come in three sizes...

[mjkjedi]

Wii, not so Wii, and friggin' huge!

Re:It will come in three sizes...

[Snootch]

Damn it. Stupid new AJAXy moderation system...get your focus in the wrong place, press an arrow key, and BAM! Instant stupid moderation. I apologise to the OP, if anyone ever sees it before this message wipes out the mod...

Re:It will come in three sizes...

[KillerBob]

Oh, I wish I had mod points. That's hilarious :-)

New Video Reel

[Pointdexter]

Lots of games shown in this new video. Kitsune has translated the game names and posted this list on Quarter To Three:

1. Wii Sports - the little guys look so cute and the way they move is so adorable! ^_^

2. Forever Blue (Nintendo) - as it's an underwater game, or at least appears to be, I wonder if Nintendo is working with Arika or some developer there at to another Everblue game...

3. Mario Strikers Charged - I haven't gotten a chance to play the first, but it's more soccer with Mario, which can't be awful.

4. Excite Truck - well of course.

5. Fail to Shave with the Controller - looks dangerous.

6. Dragon Quest: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors - inevitably, it will be the best game on the Wii by virtue of just being Dragon Quest! :P

7. Sengoku Musou Wave (Koei) - Otherwise known as the Samurai Warriors, at least thus far, but in 1st person? Reminds me of that one Neo Geo game, what was it called?

8. Red Steel (You Be Eye Soft) - why do all the yakuza lack shirts in this game?

9. Fire Emblem: Goddess of Dawn - Hells yes! Bring it on! It's something goddess for the subtitle, but a bit blurry to tell.

10. Swing Golf Pangya (Tecmo) - Was this the online PC game? I don't follow these types of games...

11. Occupational Therapy with My Supportive Boyfriend - Hm.

12. WiiSports - More cute! Yeah for cute!

13. Super Mario Galaxy - Whoa! That part with the lava flows? Trippy!

14. Necronesia (Spike) - It's Necronesia, by Spike.

15. Trauma Center (or Caduceus as its known over here) (Atlus) - Yeah! More Trauma Center!

16. Sonic and the Secret Rings (Sega) - Intriguing, let's hope it doesn't feel too limited!

17. Boy Giving Enema to Farting Imaginary Friend - Will probably only interest sex fiends.

18. Wing Island (Hudson) - Wow! Is this like a Pilotwings revival? That would be sweet, Pilotwings rocked!

19. Pokemon Battle Revolution (Pokemon) - Technically you have to say it's made by the Pokemon company, since legal-wise, they're separate. But we all know it's Nintendo.

20. Bleach Wii (Sega) - Licensed games will be more creative with the Wiimote! *snicker*

21. One Piece Unlimited Adventure (Bandai Namco) - Though this does look cool and there are quite a few good One Piece games and the manga is turbocool. Still, I'd be more reassured if it were made by the Namco side.

22. Dragon Ball Z Sparking NEO (Bandai Namco) - Sequel to Dragon Ball Z Sparking Trinity.

23. SD Gundam Revolution (Bandai Namco) - Too bad this game looks like Poy Poy crossed with Gundam, because it's going to suck and you know it.

24. Crayon Shin Chan (Banpresto) - from the ultrapopular manga/anime. Didn't this series come to America recently? I wonder how it's being received in the land of South Park.

25. Tamagotchi no Pika Pika Daitoryou (Tamagotchi the Sparkling President) (Bandai Namco) - Tamagotchi for president? Elected by board game? That can't be good, what if you forgot to feed the president and he dies?

26. Change the Channel...If You Can - Looks challenging!

27. The First Wii (or My First Wii) - Aha ha ha ha ha haa haaa. I can't resist. aha ha ha ha

28. Elebits (Konami) - This game is so mysterious. It's like voyeur vandal Pokemon.

29. Rayman (You Bee I Soft) - Those bunny commercials are fantastic. "But they can dance!"

30. Super Monkey Ball Cheerful Party (Sega) - Is there any other kind of Monkey Ball party? Do people play it at funerals? Is that why we needed the clarification?

31. Fishing Master (Hudson) - Yeah.

32. The Religious Festival Master (Namco Bandai) - I will be the number one ranked player on this, just you watch.

33. Furi Furi (Taito) - An

Man..

[Anonymous Coward]

Only Slashdot has it listed NOT in Dec. So gimp guys...

Exchange rate

[daddyrief]

Miyamoto was quoted as saying the console would be $250 this time around because of exchange rate differences between economies. (I'm sorry, I lost the link and can't find it. It was a major site though.)

Anyways, I think the 'exchange rate difference' in the market recently is primarily the weakening of the USD. Nintendo is a smart company, and probably wants a few dozen US dollars extra to make sure they aren't getting gyped. If I were observing the US from an objective or business-oriented point of view, it would make sense...

Sub-$300 with a decent title (smash pls?) seems good to me.

A Little Low, A Little High

[aplusjimages]

$150 is too low. I didn't think they would make $250, but that's awesome they did. The only problem I see is $10-15 for classic games. That's a little steep for software that's older than some of its users. How about $2-5 price point? Those games aren't even worth that much now.

Re:A Little Low, A Little High

[Anonymous Coward]

observe five minutes from now when $10-15 is for an individual game, while $20-30/mo to "subscribe" will get you unlimited access to the same. Of course, you don't "own" anything, and there will never be a "trade in your cartridges" service.

I'm not "anonymous coward", I'm "lazy asshole"

Lets hope that...

[cnowacek]

Someone said that SONY has had many pitfalls recently that have setback their PS3 launch. The rootkit-fiasco, the blu-ray bullshit, and lets not forget the price of the next-gen console. I hope that my PS3 doesnt come with a SONY battery, otherwise i'll be paying $700 for a time-bomb that sits underneath my TV.... too soon, Dell lovers? As a current and proud owner of an XBOX360, I can honostly say that it was a well spent investment. As a poor college kid, i spent most of my summer work funds on the console. BUT, what I didnt anticipate was buying a console that not only plays some of the most beautiful and entertaining games, but also one that connects easily with my ipod, turning it into an instant sound system to play through my high quality TV speakers (cost of stereo: $200), the ability to integrate my media center equipped laptop to the media center on the console to play all my bootlegged movies without having to burn them on to a DVD or mod my set (bootlegged dvds: $500), not to mention all the ass that I pull when I tell the girls I meet downtown that I'm the proud owner of a 360 (crazy boyband ass: priceless). So all the nintendo fan-boys out there who scream that there is no innovation in the 360, you must look past the fact that a traditional controller isnt innovative, but look at the internal system software that allows you to do some pretty nifty integration that not only saves you money, but also brings in lots of skirt.

Colors?

[Phucilage]

Unfortunately I can't seem to find anything on what colors they'll be available in at release. We can find the assortment of colors, but are they going to go the road of the gameboy and release a couple at a time to increase sales? Anyone think they'd do that with a console?

Re:Colors?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone think they'd do that with a console?

Hmm.. I don't know... look at the DS, the N64, the Gamecube for reference. Do you think past evidence shows that Nintendo might release only a few colors at a time to drive sales?

woooooh!

[Anonymous Coward]

see here:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/topics/wii_preview/m ovie/lineup.html
there's water in my eyes after that!

What about Europe?

[Andy_R]

I think I speak for a lot of Europeans when I say...
AAAAAAAAAARRRRGH when's it coming out over here?

Here in Britain, Sony have already admitted they prefer selling to the rest of the world, and won't let us have any until after the Christmas sales rush, which has pissed off a LOT of gamers.

The big question here is will Nintendo also treat us like second-class citizens and hand the British games market to MS on a plate by giving them a second uncontested Christmas?

Re:What about Europe?

[Cutriss]

You'll get your release date in about 16 hours. Nintendo apparently wanted to have all three events the same day, but there was a scheduling conflict that forced the EU event to Friday. But they've stated and re-stated that they'll be launching in all three territories nearly simultaneously, and with 2M units at launch, EU will have enough to go around.

Re:What about Europe?

[meringuoid]

Here in Britain, Sony have already admitted they prefer selling to the rest of the world, and won't let us have any until after the Christmas sales rush, which has pissed off a LOT of gamers. The big question here is will Nintendo also treat us like second-class citizens and hand the British games market to MS on a plate by giving them a second uncontested Christmas?

My guess: not a chance. Everyone at Nintendo must have been jumping up and down in glee when Sony decided they'd have to miss Christmas. Sony wouldn't have done that unless their shortages and delays had absolutely forced them to do so. AFAIK Nintendo have no such problems.

Toy manufacturers don't miss Christmas lightly, after all.

Re:What about Europe?

[Andy_R]

just for the archive... wii.com now says 8th December, at £179 (249 Euros) - that's a LOT cheaper than the xbox 360.

$5 per game

[Peter Bonte]

Classic games are $5-10 and i beleve Apple is setting a new price for oldschool games with there $5 pricepoint for iPod games, $5 is clearly the sweet spot for casual games.

Re:$5 per game

[generic-man]

Most of the casual games on Xbox Live Marketplace sell for about $5, too. The sweet spot is apparently ($250 to $400) for a piece of hardware and $5 for each casual game.

Parent is completely inaccurate!

[atezun]

This interview is completely false!

It is a scientifcally know fact that anyone from Japan is completely incapable of pronouncing the letter "L"

Fruck you parent, Fruck you!

Re:Parent is completely inaccurate!

[Zaatxe]

And if you ask a chinese if he has elections, he will answer "yes, evely molning!"

Re:Parent is completely inaccurate!

[sankyuu]

Actually, some Japanese tend to over-compensate when speaking English, and inadvertently pronounce 'r' as 'l'.

For instance, this is a true story: I was at a grocery store near my apartment in Saitama, Japan. Suddenly, an an elderly clerk passes by and points at the counter, wildly saying, "Flee! Flee!" I wonder what it's about and begin to worry. It turns out they had a special offer that day, and the boxes of chocolate stacked near the counter were being given away for free!

Re:Parent is completely inaccurate!

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the clerk thought you were a little chunky, and should flee before you got any chocolate.

Re:Parent is completely inaccurate!

[Chris Burke]

Now I don't speak Japanese, but my understanding of the problem is that Japanese has neither "r" nor "l" sounds, but has rather a single sound that is halfway in between (I think the tongue is like an "r" and the lips are like "l"). The result is that whichever letter it was supposed to be in English, it sounds wrong.

I can't imagine why a Japanese person would add an "r" or "l" to "Fuck", though.

P.S. the GP was hilarious.

what about the modship?

[Fedarkyn]

almost as important as the console release date is the modship release date. :) When I will be able to play with may *cough* backups?

Re: HA HA HA!

[traveller604]

Yes it was :D

So much is right, they can't go wrong.. can they?

[NekoXP]

Bundling a game by force at least means retailers will have to think twice about "compulsory bundling" like they did with the XBox360. Remember when the Playstation 2 came out? A lot of people bought one in the beginning because they wanted a new console but ALSO because their original Playstation 1 was completely hosed through 6 years of play. They come into the store, with their $500 for the new box, and... oh.. I have to buy one of these "packs" with 2 shitty racing games in it? All I wanted was the PS2, the demo disk, a new Dual Shock ('cos my old one is friiied) and to play all my old games maybe with some texture filtering. Denied. Disappointed. Hand over the $750 :(

I love love love the browser, and the weather thing, and virtual console.. just seeing R-Type in Nintendo's Japanese presentation made me wet. I want to play Super Mario World again, and when I get stuck, I want to press the HOME button, fire up Opera, and look for the GameFAQs article. Oh no more running for a magazine or booting the PC just for that!

Playing all those old Gamecube games for $5-$10 in the bargain and second-user bins at Gamestop will keep me happy for SOOOO long.

Yeah we'd all like it to cost $150, but Nintendo are apparently going to sell the Wii at a profit in contrast to the super-expensive loss-making XBox360 and Playstation 3. They have plenty of scope to cost reduce, lower consumer prices in the future, without it being a real financial tussle for them.

HOORAY! I've never been this excited about a games console in my life.

BBC say 2nd December in Jp, no date known EU,US

[speculatrix]

BBC article says no data set for UK/EU/US, but 2nd December for Japan.

Re:BBC say 2nd December in Jp, no date known EU,US

[Draracle]

Probably the most reliable source so far.

Practical considerations

[Y-Crate]

Does anyone else think that the Wii controller might just get a wee bit annoying to use after a while?

It seems like one of those really awesome ideas until you think about holding your arm in the air and waving it around for a couple of hours. Perhaps it's just me, but I see a decent potential for a good number of people to just get really turned off by the design after a relatively short time.

Try sitting down, picking up a remote control and waving it in front of you at a slow pace for about five minutes. Imagine doing that for at least 30-40min to an hour or more at a time. I can't see how that could be comfortable. (for the purposes of my experimentation, I've used an Apple Remote which is smaller and lighter than the Wii controller, as well as standard TV/Cable box remotes)

Re:Practical considerations

[Warbringer87]

I was skeptical about the Wii controller myself. Luckily, I had the oppurtunity to attend this year's E3, and got to play a ton of games. Albeit it wasn't 40 minutes, I was there for a while, and played a lot of the games they had out, so I had my hands on the controller in many different situations. After that experience, I'm confident it won't be annoying for me, and most will find it quite fun. It all depends on what type of gamer you are, really. Are you sitting on a big leather chair, covered in cheetos, and shouting at a headset? The Wii is most likely not for you. Also, from the games I played, it isn't always a slow paced movement. Some of that stuff got intensive and crazy.

Re:Practical considerations

[ronanbear]

Press the buttons on a standard controller for 5 minutes without a game playing and see how bored you get and how tired your hand feels. Even holding a joypad in front of you for 5 minutes is irritating if there isn't a game playing to take your mind off it.

You made a fair point but it won't be possible to objectively judge until weeks after the Wii comes out.

Re:Practical considerations

[Garse Janacek]

Holy shit! You're right! Pure speculation does suggest that the controller will be uncomfortable to use for long periods!

Damn... if only Nintendo had thought to test the controller for 30-40min consecutively, they could have noticed this problem and corrected it before release.... too late now....... why didn't you say something sooner?!

Re:Practical considerations

[Y-Crate]

Damn... if only Nintendo had thought to test the controller for 30-40min consecutively, they could have noticed this problem and corrected it before release.... too late now....... why didn't you say something sooner?!

Joke all you want, but the Virtual Boy proves Nintendo - like almost every company - doesn't always think things through as well as it should.

Re:Practical considerations

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Joke all you want, but the Virtual Boy proves Nintendo - like almost every company - doesn't always think things through as well as it should."

The Virtual Boy argument is 10 years old.

Re:Practical considerations

[Zed2K]

But still a 100% valid argument.

Re:Practical considerations

[DMoylan]

from the jargon file:
http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/G/gorilla-arm.html
gorilla arm:
The side-effect that destroyed touch-screens as a mainstream input technology despite a promising start in the early 1980s. It seems the designers of all those spiffy touch-menu systems failed to notice that humans aren't designed to hold their arms in front of their faces making small motions. After more than a very few selections, the arm begins to feel sore, cramped, and oversized -- the operator looks like a gorilla while using the touch screen and feels like one afterwards. This is now considered a classic cautionary tale to human-factors designers; "Remember the gorilla arm!" is shorthand for "How is this going to fly in real use?".

at my place of work we develop a pos (point of sales) system that uses touch screens and in some places were they have one person using the touchscreen they take a serious whack when people are using them for a long period of time. it wasn't too bad with heavy crt touchscreens but the lighter lcd touchscreens seem more fragile.

Re:Practical considerations

[Anonymous Coward]

And the man who created the Virtua Boy was fired and suffered an unfortunate accident.

Re:Practical considerations

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"But still a 100% valid argument."

Depends on what the argument is. If the argument is that any company can make a mistake, sure, okay, thanks for using up the ol' bandwidth Captain Obvious. If the argument is that Nintendo has a propensity for making mistakes like that, then no, it is not 100% valid.

Re:Practical considerations

[Y-Crate]

The Virtual Boy argument is 10 years old.

The argument may be old, but the fact remains that many competant companies with good track records release products with obvious usability flaws despite the usual testing procedures that have ensured that earlier products have been relatively problem free and quite usable.

I was not attempting to say "NINTENDO IS F-ING US AGAIN!" or anything of that nature, but simply to express that in my view, after some simple and quite forgiving tests, that the Wii controller still has some questionable design aspects that give me pause when I find myself tempted to join the chorus of praise for their latest innovation.

Don't get me wrong, the Wii controller is quite innovative, but there are some rather glaring questions that have yet to be answered.

Re:Practical considerations

[Y-Crate]

Depends on what the argument is. If the argument is that any company can make a mistake, sure, okay, thanks for using up the ol' bandwidth Captain Obvious. If the argument is that Nintendo has a propensity for making mistakes like that, then no, it is not 100% valid.

Your corporate loyalty seems to be getting in the way of analyzing my original statement. Try re-reading it again as a post expressing legitimate concern, and not as an attack on a company you hold an affection for.

Re:Practical considerations

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Your corporate loyalty seems to be getting in the way of analyzing my original statement."

Your petty misconceptions are getting in the way of analyzing my statements. Try re-reading my post again as a post expressing a legitimate reply to your concern. I'm not interesting in playing fanboy wars.

Re:Practical considerations

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"I was not attempting to say "NINTENDO IS F-ING US AGAIN!" or anything of that nature, but simply to express that in my view, after some simple and quite forgiving tests, that the Wii controller still has some questionable design aspects that give me pause when I find myself tempted to join the chorus of praise for their latest innovation."

*sigh*

I wish I had read this one before your other one. I wouldn't have been as snide. :)

Listen, I did not read that as an attack on Nintendo. I didn't reply to it to defend Nintendo. Heck, I have RSI, and I have similar concerns that you do. However, it was the rationale I had a beef with. I'm short on time, so I'll just give you a brief summary of why the VB doesn't sway me much in this argument:

- The designer for it passed away. He personally will not be around to make that mistake.
- There's no possible way Nintendo would have a fiasco like the VB and not learn from it.
- The VB was not a flagship product with near the development budget that a console has.
- Nintendo has a good history with making controllers. More recently, the DS has been well recieved.
- 1 mistake 10 years ago is not indicative of a pattern. 9 years without such mistakes, however...

Have a good afternoon.

Re:Practical considerations

[sesshomaru]

Also, people seem to discount the possiblity that Nintendo learnned from its mistakes (and it has made many more than just Virtual Boy). I think they introduce ideas they think might be profit making for them in a more limited way these days and test the waters first before going full throttle with them.

They aren't even going "all in" with the Wii, it will definitely still play traditional games. You couldn't say that about Virtual Boy. If the red and black virtual reality screens gave you a headache, you were basically stuck with a useless videogame player.

But the reality is the only reason why people keep bringing up Virtual Boy is because it was "wierd" and the Wii is seen as "wierd."

Of course, lest we forget, PSP defenders have done the same thing with the "wierd" DS.

Re:Practical considerations

[Zed2K]

Yet you are a self proclaimed "foaming-at-the-mouth Nintendo fanboy"

Re:Practical considerations

[Garse Janacek]

the Virtual Boy proves Nintendo - like almost every company - doesn't always think things through as well as it should.

True -- but the new controller has been quite successful with everyone who's been lucky enough to actually try it out, and not just imagine it. If it was just an awkward gimmick, I wouldn't expect that.

And, if the Virtual Boy argument is still legitimate, then certainly so is the DS argument....

Re:Practical considerations

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Yet you are a self proclaimed "foaming-at-the-mouth Nintendo fanboy""

So?

Re:Practical considerations

[scot4875]

Giving up mod points to respond to this, but this point could not be left unaddressed...

The designer for it passed away. He personally will not be around to make that mistake.

Don't *ever* knock Gunpei Yokoi. He's the fucking MAN.

Sure, he was responsible for the VirtualBoy... But if he were alive today, I'd still buy anything with his name attached to it. Why? He was also responsible for Nintendo's R&D1 -- you know, the group that designed the GameBoy. And R&D1 games like Kid Icarus and, you know, only quite possibly the best video game franchise in history, Metroid.

I realize that you probably know all of this, since you at least know that he died (killed in a car accident) -- but to me it is still unacceptable that anyone should ever think that it's in any way a blessing that Yokoi died. The man was a huge positive influence on the video game industry.

--Jeremy

Re:Practical considerations

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Ugh, you're right, I didn't phrase that very clearly. I apologize, it wasn't my intention to make it sound like it was a blessing. I was trying to say that there are different people in management, but mentioning his death wasn't the best way to do it. Sorry. :/

Re:Practical considerations

[Anonymous Coward]

You've scraped the bottom of the barrel with that dumb-ass argument.

$5 is too much?!?!?!?

[brunes69]

Honestly, i don't know what some people *expect*.

Nintendo is going to
- Host the game on their servers
- Provide bandwidth to download the game
- Provide support for problems with the game
- Warranty the game
- Likely let you play lot sof the classic games with people online

And you won't even pay the price of a Happy meal??? The price of two sports drinks???

Re:$5 is too much?!?!?!?

[JeTmAn81]

I can get a PS2 game for $5 (Gran Turismo 3). Why would I pay that much for a game that's 20 years old? I don't have to mention the fact that I already have roms for every Nintendo system up to the Gamecube which I can output to play on my 30" tv doesn't help any.

Re:$5 is too much?!?!?!?

[2008]

Well, for a NES era game, I'd have said $2 for most with perhaps the very best (SMB3, FF) costing more.

As for hosting and bandwidth, NES games are only a few hundred kilobytes, i.e. a couple of webpages. They could put a banner ad on the download page and cover that entirely. It's nothing. They're hosting video files on their pages right now that use more bandwidth than selling NES games ever will.

They could use a premium number for tech support and recoup that cost in call charges.

Online play is very doubtful, that's really hard to do with an emulator. Online games need to be coded for latency, a classic ROM isn't.

So, all your points amount to nothing. Developing an emulator and testing are their real costs.

Re:$5 is too much?!?!?!?

[JeTmAn81]

Actually, online play is not that hard to do...I recently successfully played Turtles IV: Turtles In Time with a friend 30 miles away using the Super Nintendo emulator ZSNES. It worked like a charm. If Nintendo is really smart, they've licensed an existing emulator like that and built off their well-tested codebase.

Re:$5 is too much?!?!?!?

[2008]

Perhaps it's not as hard as I thought then. Still, they'd have to work out a server browser and do extra, more complicated testing. I'm not sure they'd bother, it's not like people won't buy Smash Brothers 64 just because it doesn't have online...

Re:$5 is too much?!?!?!?

[LDoggg_]

This is a really good point.
At least for snes games. They could have an entire library of mutli-player games ready to go at launch.

I've done the multi-player thing in zsnes as well, it worked great. It just has both clients displaying the same screen as though you had two controllers plugged in to one old console. It was on a LAN so not sure about bandwith, but p2p with a meet-up game server would really cool.

Everything you need to know about Wii vs PS3

[zangetsu]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2964751562 925463883&q=wii+ps3&hl=en/

Virtual Console Disappointment

[TheNinjaroach]

I'm very disappointed in their small release of fairly pricey roms for the virtual console. One of my biggest reasons to wait for the Wii was the fact I could play my favorite NES, SNES and 64 games all on the same system. I can't believe the 30 games they will release for it will happen to be *ALL* 30 that I had planned to purchase within a week of its release.

$5-$10 per game download? Come on Nintendo! I could go out and buy myself 10 original NES cartridges for less than $10! I expected an iTunes-style library with thousands of games and a "click-to-charge" download interface.. instead I get a stingy collection with stingy prices. I'll be shocked to enjoy any of these next-gen systems.

Re:Virtual Console Disappointment

[Draracle]

I would like to know where you get the quality NES and SNES (more my flavour) titles for $1 each. $10 for a classic title on my system is probably the upper end of what I would pay for most classics, some I would easily pick up for twice that price. I guess that Nintendo plugged the price at the right spot, because at $10 a pop I will still buy the games. Also, I would look at the stated release rate of VC games -- not the lauch VC games. I think it is 10 new VCs a month, but I could be wrong.

Re:Virtual Console Disappointment

[DeadMilkman]

I hope you DO realize that alot of those roms are in licensing hell.

This isn't as easy as iTunes where 5 companies accounted for the majority. The NES Library is REALLY widespread and quite hellish. Hell even SNES isn't as easy as you would think it would be.

Give it time...if its successful they will come.

Re:Virtual Console Disappointment

[Shadyman]

Just wait until someone figures out how to encode roms to Wii format.

What time is the New York event?

[dangermouse]

Word on the interblogosupersphereway was that there would be another Nintendo event in New York today, presumably to announce the price and release date of the Wii in North America. In the excitement over the event in Japan last night though, everybody seems to have forgotten about it.

The information in this story conflicts with the information coming out of Japan last night, and is basically unconfirmed rumor right now.

So, does anybody know what time the New York event is supposed to start? Is anybody going to cover it, or is everyone sleeping late after staying up to read Famitsu translations?

Videos

[whoop]

Nintendo Japan has a couple videos up with various games, ways to use the controller, etc.

Re:Videos

[whoop]

Hmm, apparently Japan won't be getting the Wii until December 2.

But according to here, the downloadable games will be NES games for 500 yen ($4.25US), SNES for 800 yen ($6.80US), and N64 games for 1000 yen ($8.50US). They plan to increase their library by ten games a month, so it'll grow quickly.

A monthly unlimited plan would have been far more successful, but it's still cheap. I won't be buying my entire library of old games, but it's ok for a small handful of the best ones.

$50 = All the Difference

[kthejoker]

Ultimately this just means when Sony drops the PS3 to $400 in the spring, the difference in the upgrade will be just that much more dented.

Literally every dollar below the PS3's "real" price (and not their mad-rush Christmas season profit margin to offset the losses of a price drop) is going to affect the long-term sales of both of these products (the Xbox 360, too.)

Funny how much of a difference $50 can make in the world.

9 AM Eastern

[mzs]

Does anyone have a link to a live update web site? Does anyone know where I can pre-order one of these!

Re:So much is right, they can't go wrong.. can the

[Anonymous Coward]

just seeing R-Type in Nintendo's Japanese presentation made me wet.

Funny how that one little phrase made your whole post cool or disgusting, solely depending on your gender.

I thought they could do no wrong

[tdc_vga]

Seriously, I thought up until this morning the Wii would be the first console I bought in years --the day it came out. Now, I don't think it will be. Mainly, I hate hate hate sports games (can't stand them). I wanted the Wii, a demo disk, and then I'd pickup Zelda when it came out. Now, I get a Wii and a useless 50.00 disk (can't resell it as EVERYONE with a Wii has it) and old console games for $5-10 a piece? I'll wait for an un-bundled version.

being live blogged at kotaku

[mzs]

Liveblogging Nintendo's NYC Event

Tell me...

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

...what exactly is so Quiet about your _Desperation?

Re:So much is right, they can't go wrong.. can the

[NekoXP]

Well, I was thinking of it in a very Avid Merrion kind of way.

I want to put my wet on my Wii. AHEM.

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsite s/B/bo_selecta/

Post Christmas price drop

[Darthmalt]

After christmas the price will probably drop to $199 then a year or so later $149. Similar to what the game cube has done.

Re:There was a Miyamoto interview that addressed t

[Anonymous Coward]

thank you, i'm going back to bed now.

with a SPORTS game

[Ender Ryan]

$250 with a SPORTS game. Screw that, I fricking *hate* sports games. I can play real sports. I play games to do something different. Like shooting people in the face -- yes, as much of an asshole as I am on /., I don't shoot people in the face IRL :) -- or driving insanely fast in traffic, or jumping on little brown mushroom lookin' guys. Hopefully they'll have a cheaper one without the bundle, but considering that the cost of bundling a game is nowhere near $50, I don't think it'll hit that $200 price people were hoping for. Oh well. Personally, I'm still taking a "wait and see" approach. I want to see first-hand how the Wiimote plays before getting all excited like a little schoolgirl, and I will not spend $600 on a console until I see proof that it cures cancer and does my dishes. All in all, I'm extremely skeptical about this console generation. So far it's a lot of big promises, big pricetags, and flailing businesses.

Re:with a SPORTS game

[Eccles]

I think they should make a wiimote that weighs about 20 pounds, so people can get a decent workout while playing.

Re:with a SPORTS game

[mcmonkey]

If it helps, don't think of it as a sports game. Think of it as a trainer. The Weeeeeemote is significantly different than the controllers we're used to using with consoles, so it sounds like they decided to bundle software to both highlight and help users adjust to those differences.

$250 w/o a game stills makes this the most affordable console of its generation. And if you think you might actually spend some time playing the sports package, even better.

As for my excitement level, I'm not quite at 'little school girl' but this will be the first console I buy at launch since the Dreamcast (even if it has a stupid, stupid name, why not just call it 'gonads and strife'?).

Re:What about Europe? Terms for acceptance

[Anonymous Coward]

I think my view on the thing is becoming clear:

• I'm not buying till it hits £99. I'm sick of US and Japanese firms expecting to treat Europe as third class buyers - it had better reach a reasonable price fast and bugger the rest of the world.
• Tailored to the European market. That means decent games and none of the cutezy japanese crap. The avatar thing nearly turned my stomach and certainly turned me off. I expect anything with a cute face to get reamed before I see it.
• Some longevity demonstrated, which means good use shown for the controller and good support from developers.

Of the three manufacturers, Nintendo seems to have the best chance of getting my money. However I'd rather give up on the lot of them than accept poor delivery and same old/same old games.

$250

[kirk26]

That's about the same price I pay a whore to suck my mule and fuck her asshole!

Disapointing

[grumbel]

But I have to say that the bundle is rather exciting and to me very much worth it.

Not so sure if its worth it, I mean having a title bundled that demonstrates the Wiimote is a good thing, but Wiisports really doesn't look to be worth $50, its more a mini/demo/party game kind of thing. I also miss a second controller in the bundle, especially with Wiisports, I don't see how one can have much fun with it without having a second player. Big deal one could say, just buy another one, second controller however costs $60 ($40 Wiimote + $20 Nunchuk). So to get fully going with the Wii we are already in the $300 range, which also happens to be the price you have to pay for a XBox360, not exactly a good thing for a console that is meant to be "cheap". NES games at $5 is also a little bit much.

The build in webbrowser and messaging stuff could mean that Wii ends up actually having a solid online thing going, but beside from that the news can't really impress me, quite the opposite. Zelda and Metroid getting delayed is of course also a downer.

What's your point?

[LKM]

I wouldn't exactly call playing 20 year old games on your very new console, "new".

Neither would I. Which is why I haven't. What is your point?

And nobody is going to want to swing that wimote around for 4 hours at a time.

And nobody will have to. You can play the Wii with small gestures. No swinging required. Again, what's your point?

They should keep that crazy Miyamoto away from the controller designers, designing acontroller with a new Zelda/mario in mind does not make it a good controller for games that are not Zelda/Mario

Thrice's the charm, I guess. That controller was definitely not made with Mario and Zelda games in mind. Well, maybe the fishing games in Zelda, but other than that... So, again, and for the last time: What's your point?

Re:What's your point?

[CronoCloud]

People have been saying since the wiimote was annnounce that "it would be awesome to swing the sword in Zelda with it" that's my point. It may only take small movements but people are going to swing it around. Some are going to want to swing it around.

And as for the 20 year old games, remember the Virtual Console that everyone says is so awesome when at the same time they say, "why would I want to play PS1 games on the PS3"

Re:What's your point?

[MentosPimp]

People have been saying since the wiimote was annnounce that "it would be awesome to swing the sword in Zelda with it" that's my point. It may only take small movements but people are going to swing it around. Some are going to want to swing it around.

    People who want to make grand sweeping gestures will be able to do what they want.
    People who want to sit down and control using subtle, minute gestures will be able to do what they want.
    So, given what we know abou the controller, people will be able to control the game as they want...

    GP was right, what IS your point?

Re:What's your point?

[LKM]

People have been saying since the wiimote was annnounce that "it would be awesome to swing the sword in Zelda with it" that's my point.

GAH! That doens't mean that they will personally come to your room and force you to swing it around! It just means that they are looking forward to swinging it around. Nobody forces anyone to do any kind of swinging for four hours at a time!

And as for the 20 year old games, remember the Virtual Console that everyone says is so awesome when at the same time they say, "why would I want to play PS1 games on the PS3"

I've never heard anyone say that. And even if I had, it's not my opinion.

Straw man much?

Re:What's your point?

[CronoCloud]

Nintendo has always been sort the company to say "you play games the way we want you to play them, no reconfiguring the controls. We'll just forget to put in a how much you have to swing the wii-mote adjustment in the games"

They've also been the company to release a "controller" that may appear "innovative" in demos, promos and commercials but in the end doesn't prove all that useful or usable in practice: Superscope, ROB, the Hey You Pikachu microphone, the NES Max

The wii-mote might prove more useful in the multimedia aspects of the Wii than the actual games.

That's my point.

Re:So much is right, they can't go wrong.. can the

[Lectoid]

I totally agree with you. Another way to look at the $250 price. The extra 50 dollars is a lifetime of free "Live" for the Wii, instead of just a year.

Sometimes you do need more memory

[tepples]

You don't need more memory or a faster CPU to come up with solid game mechanics

If you want to keep track of a few hundred objects in play at once, you had better be developing on a system with more than, say, the 2 KiB of main RAM in the original NES.

Re:What about Europe? Terms for acceptance

[Blurredplacebo]

dont worry you could be in australia it seems like game companies forget we exist sometimes.

Do not believe this.

[kinglink]

I'd hold off on listening to this til late this morning. There is a Press
confrence today being held that Nintendo should confirm or deny this.

I may be in denial but the NYT (New York Times to you non Eastcoasters) ran
this report, but also said Zelda will miss the launch but be available by
the end of the year. In a scant few hours we'll have confirmation at the
worst, or real dates and numbers at best I hope.

Microsoft has got to be happy about the price

[ConfusedSelfHating]

At $250 it's not that far off the current price of a Xbox 360 core. If Microsoft dropped the price of both SKUs by $50 and threw in Project Gotham Racing 3, the core system would be very competitive. For the Wii60 crowd, it could mean a Premium Xbox 360, a Wii, Wii Sports and Project Gotham Racing 3 for the same price as a premium PS3. Of course, that's just speculating.

Does anyone else think that the console's priced high because of the high price of the PS3? I think that if the PS3 were $400, you would see a $200 Wii with a game. One of the great things about the Wii for the non-Nintendo fans is it will put pressure on other console makers to lower their prices.

I am simply amazed that Nintendo went with the same point structure as Microsoft. Wii points? 500 Wii points for a NES game, 800 for a SNES game and 1000 for a N64 game. 20 bucks for 2000 points. Horse armor for Link?

Sports will *NOT* be a pack-in game

[EVil Lawyer]

"2:16 a.m. EST [update 13]: Gemaga reports Wii Sports will not be a pack-in game, but will cost 4,800 yen and include five sports games." (see joystiq).

4800 JPY = about 41 USD.

A real trek?

[CopaceticOpus]

When I first glanced at this headline, I read it as "Wil to Launch..." and I thought "Wow, Wil Wheaton is going into space?" That would be sweet! :)

Wii Sports bundle

[YesIAmAScript]

The guys on the 1up Yours podcast predicted it 3 weeks ago.

I'm not happy with the release date or price. It won't kill all competiton at these prices. Probably still succeed though.

Re:What about Europe? Terms for acceptance

[Anonymous Coward]

The avatar thing nearly turned my stomach and certainly turned me off.

Then you should probably give up on the video game market (and life) now. You will eventually want too much from it and it will always disappoint you.

Re:So much is right, they can't go wrong.. can the

[NekoXP]

And free wireless in the other sense too; you need a $100 adapter for the XBox360.

So, cheaper by $150, and $100 again for the wireless, and $50 because you don't need to buy a game just to get started, etc. etc.

Did you see the prices for the controllers? 3800 Yen for the Wiimote, 1800 for the Gamecube-style, the Nunchuck, and the rest of the gamut. That's like super-cheap ($30 and $15 respectively).

One thing I am aching for now, just for my friends (I hate these games) is one of those singalong games, where you could just plug a microphone attachment where the Nunchuck would go, and hold it and wave it around like Whitney or Britney or Christina and have your 3D avatar do the same. They'd go nuts for that while I was drinking all the alcohol :)

Launch Day Purchase....

[MrCopilot]

...Here I come, First time in all my gaming years. My daughter's b-day is 11/12. Prediction: One happy little 10 yr old.

But as has been said, we'd like it around $200.

Re:Launch Day Purchase....

[MrCopilot]

And a week earlier.

Re:What about Europe? Terms for acceptance

[Ant P.]

And other times you get the best deal. I remember there being a big deal over 1080 Snowboarding on the N64 getting released in AU 6 months before the UK.

I agree

[LKM]

All that waiting is driving me insane, too. Not to mention that I live in fucking europe, so I'll probably have to wait another few months or something...

NOW! I WANT IT NOW!!!

Zelda: TWP

[Leviance3]

So, target.com is advertising November 2 as the release date for Twilight Princess on Gamecube. I've been reading lots of speculation that TWP won't be available until maybe a month after the Wii's release. Can anybody confirm the GC release date or that it will actually be released on time?

Old is New Again

[Shadowlore]

Finally, Wii will also make it possible to browse the web on your television.

WebTV made that possible more than 7 years ago. As someone who has done it, unless you have a hi-res TV, you really don't want to browse on the TV. Even with a hi-res TV it isn't that great.

Nintendo of America Sez...

[Anonymous Coward]

NEW YORK, Sept. 14, 2006 - Nintendo will reshape the home entertainment and video game landscape with the launch of its heralded Wii(TM) home video game console. The Americas will lead the worldwide launch on Nov. 19. Wii will be sold as an affordable, mass-consumer product at an MSRP of just $249.99. The price includes one wireless Wii Remote controller, one Nunchuk(TM) controller and the groundbreaking collection of five different Wii Sports games on one disc, which anyone can play using simple movements, experienced or not.

http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=aT85 VZmuLFtGkO9m1HSsJ2PdSlh7Sc0b&page=

stupid, stupid name

[Ender Ryan]

Oh why, WHY doens't Penny Arcade have searchable transcripts of their comics?!

Stupid, stupid name: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/04/28

Yeah, it's funny. I'm over it. The thing about the Wii, *for me*, is that I *do* have a high def set, which I would really like to take advantage of. It looks like most Wii games will at least support widescreen, though.

PS3 is just too expensive at launch, and the 360 just doesn't have the games I'm interested in. So, the only thing I can do is wait and see. And in the meantime, I'm using my PC with my HD set for gaming, which is really, really nice. Playing Half-Life 2 with a wireless KB/mouse on a 50" widescreen HD set just can't be beat.

But PC gaming has a real dearth of games in certain genres, eg., platformers, JRPGs, action adventure, etc. So, I still use the ol' PS2, and am looking forward to the new console generation.

MSRP

[kahrytan]

  The title should be "Wii to launch Nov. 19th for MSRP $250"

  Nintendo is not selling Wii for $250 but quite less then that. I would guess around $175-$200. I plan on buying Nintendo Wii this year at Costco with bundled extras.

I'll take that.

[Kelbear]

I didn't buy the idea of a 150 wii for a second. Ridiculous. 200? Possible!

250? It's what I expected. I hate "realistic" sports games, but since Wii sports would show off the Wiimote, I was curious, though not planning to pay money for it.

I would've preferred that Wii Sports wasn't included, and not because I want Zelda. As mentioned elsewhere, Zelda wasn't really designed with the Wii in mind and that doesn't bode well for playing the game with the Wiimote. I'm not sure how easy it'd be to incorporate a change that drastic late into a game's development. I'll probably play this one using a Gamecube controller if they allow it on the Wii version.

While the Wiimote is nice and I'm excited about what kinds of gameplay it'll offer, I still enjoy the traditional gamepad interface where appropriate and would even prefer it if it suited the game better than the Wiimote.

The extra features are nice but I own a PC, they're kinda irrelevant for me. But I plan to buy a Wii anyway, only because of the kinds of gameplay that controller opens up.

I primarily play PC games. I had lost interest in the PS1 quickly and just played on my friends' consoles after that, not really finding enough enjoyment to commit to a console(especially if I'd be able to play several of those console games on PC and enjoy them more since my PC is already upgraded to play PC games.)

Now, with the Wii and its out-of-left-field controller, I'm finally going to try a new console.

Television, eh?

[emurphy42]

Finally, Wii will also make it possible to browse the web on your television.

Oh, goody! I've been waiting for that for eleven years!

Re:There was a Miyamoto interview that addressed t

[peripatetic_bum]

Man, You just reminded me why I read slashdot. That was amazingly funny.
Thanks

1 controller is OK

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's not as bad as everyone says... Wii Sports is tennis, golf, baseball (just hitting, apparently), boxing and bowling. Three of those you could easily play multiplayer by handing round a single controller, and only tennis really demands more - if you want to box multiplayer you can just hit each other for real :)

I'm more disappointed that the Wii doesn't come with virtual console credit or the classic controller. Hopefully the classic controller and all the games you buy will come with vc credit, instead of those crappy Nintendo star points they have now.

And where the hell is Super Paper Mario. Cancelling it as a cube game to move it to Wii would have been acceptable if it was still going to come out before Xmas.

From TF Press Release

[OzPhIsH]

Straight form the press release: Wii Shop Channel: This is where users go to buy Wii Points or redeem them to download classic video games to the Virtual Console(TM). Users also can use points to download the Opera browser used in the Internet Channel. Internet Channel: This channel dramatically changes the relationship between a user's home, the television and the Internet. Users download the Opera browser with Wii Points. Then they can surf the Internet right from the comfort of their couch. They can do quick research while watching a television program ("What was that actor's name again?"). Or book travel plans and shop during commercials. The service is compatible with Macromedia Flash.

Re:From TF Press Release

[Wdomburg]

Oh, hrm, someone completely missed that. I was going by Joel Johnson from Wired News:

How much will Opera cost? Unknown. No price has yet been set for the download-able Opera web browser, but it sounds like it could very well be free, once Nintendo finishes discussions with Opera.

Exchange rates? No, inflation

[joe_bruin]

The SNES released in 1991 for $200. Assuming 2% inflation per year, $200 in 1991 dollars is equal to $269.17 in 2006 dollars. The price of the console is going down!

I Just Moved To Japan

[Omega037]

I can't believe that I move from US to Japan and then have to wait LONGER to get a Japanese game console. At least I can get all the Japanese games without having to worry about importing them...