Canadian Phone Company Selling Porn

westcoaster004 writes "Telus, Canada's second-largest telecommunications carrier has started selling pornography to its cellular subscribers. The service allows subscribers with mobile browsers to purchase both photographic and video adult-oriented content from Telus, at an average of CD$4 per download. Telus decided to introduce the service after noticing that there existed a certain 'segment of the population that is interested in that content' from review of the mobile Web browsing habits of their subscribers 'on an aggregate level.' They are the first telecommunications company in Canada to offer such content. A Telus spokesman said: 'We're fairly certain that if our competitors in Canada haven't launched it, they will soon. Same in the US.'"

Comments

Interesting

[JoshJ]

How big is Canada's bloc of religious wackos who think anything sexual is so horrible it needs to be banned? I'm hoping it's significantly smaller than it is in the US so that this excellent example of free speech will hold up as something for America to follow.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

I think we are a little bit less spook about seeing boobies on TV during prime time. Not that there are a lot of boobies on TV after all most of the feeds are from the states. Also it is legal in Ontario for women to go topless in public. Not that they would want to, but the law say they can.

As a matter of fact I remember one of the TV stations said they have no problems with showing nudity on TV. The French stations sometimes shows soft p0rn around midnights.

There are lots of p0rn on the internet. They charge $4 for just dl'ing p0rn without unknown quality in a tiny screen is just silly. Now if you tell me that there is some interactions (say chat lines/requests), may be there is a market.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Porn is for pigs. This is a reason the Islam nuts want to kill the western people. Civilsation is in reverse and you sound cutting edge.

Re:Interesting

[king-manic]

How big is Canada's bloc of religious wackos who think anything sexual is so horrible it needs to be banned? I'm hoping it's significantly smaller than it is in the US so that this excellent example of free speech will hold up as something for America to follow.

I live in the middle of the largest bloc of "wackos", work for the company in question. The wackos are mostly harmless and get pummelled into submission by the minorities and liberal press. Our "conservative wackos" would problably pass as "democrats" in the states.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Defy radical Islamism by continuing to watch porn, North America. Or else the terrorists will have won.

Re:Interesting

[Dorceon]

In Canada, violence is harmful and sex not so much! It's backwards land!

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Sanctimonious blowhards like Michael Coren, Charles McVety, and Janet Epp Buckingham and her League of Decency might be outraged. *shrug*, too bad.

I'm not sure why people would suddenly get outraged over Telus when telecom companies like Rogers, Bell, etc. have been carrying pay-per-view pr0n channels for a few years now, and probably getting a cut of the money too. A quick scan of my Rogers digital box shows such titles as 'Natural Born Boobs 3' and 'The Anal Express' available on PPV.

No, what's outrageous is the fact that anybody would actually pay $4 to watch a pr0n clip on a tiny cell phone screen. You have to be pretty horny and desperate to pay that kind of money for something like that.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

It's almost non-existent. I know almost nobody who still goes to church at all. I commit apostasy myself (i.e. debaptisation - it says I renounced my baptism on the on the baptismal registry), and my kids aren't baptized either (something about not forcing your religion/beliefs onto young kids).

Canada is the land of the Free for Atheists! And yes, I'm a big fan of Richard Dawkins.

Re:Interesting

[p!ngu]

"there are limits to free speech." You're a complete and utter (oxy)moron.

Re:Interesting

[StrangeCargoFromKeyL]

Porn is for pigs.

I smell Canadian Bacon....

(apologies, first /. post ever...)

Re:Interesting

[Sinbios]

>>In Canada, violence is harmful and sex not so much! It's backwards land!

Or more like... forwards land, when you think about it.

Re:Interesting

[woksta]

This shouldnt be modded funny, it is a serious comment.

Re:Interesting

[Fred_A]

think about your children.

Ooops, there goes your credibility...

Re:Interesting

[danespen]

I think that was ironicly speaking.

Re:Interesting

[ettlz]

And then there is the third party:
3. Those who mind their own damn business.
Those bastards!

Re:Interesting

[kripkenstein]

How big is Canada's bloc of religious wackos who think anything sexual is so horrible it needs to be banned?

1. Don't equate pornography with sex. It isn't the same. You can be pro-sex but not pro-pornography.

2. That said, I would say that 95% of violently anti-pornography people are, at some level, anti-sex.

Re:Interesting

[xiang shui]

> for god's sake ppl. use your head when you talk about free speech. there are limits to free speech. you cant go up to a stranger
> and start insulting him or lie about about some famous person in the newspaper.

Well, actually - you can.

Moron.

Re:Interesting

[Chris whatever]

It depends where you are in Canada, the west is largely more puritain than the east. But there is always some annoyed people or group even in the most tolerant regions but they have no real power, not like in the U.S.

At least in Quebec ,it has died down to a crawl, religious zealots are mostly the a minoroty of immigrant who for some reason think they have the right to conduct themselves according to their religions's rules and not the civile code of rights. (Big debate in Quebec these past few weeks)

Re:Interesting

[segin]

And what exactly is wrong with children watching porn? If you get the issue of sex dealt with children before they are having unprotected sex with everyone and their grandmother/grandfather(s), then your children might not be contracting HIV at 15 and dying of AIDS at 19.

The so-called "psychological effects" are equivalents to a fresh, steaming pile of horse shit. Watching porn at an early age has the opposite effect that is documented in these "studies". Most of your 14-15 year old sluts haven't seen a porn flick in their lives (nor do they need to with the sex they get). Most of it is by a bunch of backwards-thinking liberals that just can't side with science and admit that God does not exist, and must constantly force their beliefs upon our legal system. Where's the separation of church and state in that?.

Re:Interesting

[LKM]

Yeah, you can't go up to somebody and insult him, because you could get sued. Now tell me how this is related to an adult person selling another adult person a totally legal piece of merchandise.

Re:Interesting

[Pig Hogger]

How big is Canada's bloc of religious wackos who think anything sexual is so horrible it needs to be banned?

It's negligible. Negligible enough that the current (minority) federal government who has ostensibly been elected on a platform that could conceivably cater to that segment of wingnuts has been forced to hastily ditch most of it's platform (power is more important to catering to their perceived constituency), most importantly, scrapping plans to illegalize gay marriage.

Québec has a bigger-than-life influence in Canada, and, being french, is centuries ahead of the english in terms of sexual enlightenment (in Montréal, we have sex-shop advertisement in the subway and animated sex advice columns on the subway electronic information system).

Oh, and I forgot to add that we've been having pr0n movies on TV (NOT cable) for more than 20 years.

Re:Interesting

[kalleguld]

Porn is for pigs No, the other way around: Pigs are for porn
[/pervert]

Re:Interesting

[bigbadwlf]

Interestingly enough, sex and porn are not as big a deal here in Canada as in the US. We have religious people of course, but nothing remotely close to the nutjobs you guys have (no offense).
The censors up here are more concerned with violence.

Fine by me.... I'd rather have sex than have a fight.... and I'll expect the "slashdot users don't have sex" jokes pretty much immediately. :p

Re:Interesting

[sgt scrub]

How ironic. Our Religious wackos used to be democrates.

Re:Interesting

[Mark_MF-WN]

What makes you think that Americans don't want their business minded? We're talking about a very insecure, frightened people here. A people without even the basic comforts of modern living, like profanity and explicit sex on broadcast television. Having other people mind their business makes Americans feel safe, loved, and protected.

Freedom was a nice idea, but most people prefer to live in a cage. The cage has nice, well-delineated boundaries (the walls of the cage), you know your place (inside the cage), you're protected (by the cage). As long as you can convince yourself that YOU are the free one, and that it's the rest of the world that is actually trapped outside of the cage, then it's all gravy.

Re:Interesting

[hawkeesk8]

Telus has actually been selling porn for quite some time on their TelusTV service (TV over IP) and there has not been any outcry that I know of. The same goes for Canada's largest carrier, Bell. They offer a number of porn channels on their ExpressView satellite service, although they have yet to roll out any service on their cellular network.

Re:Interesting

[thc69]

There are lots of p0rn on the internet. They charge $4 for just dl'ing p0rn without unknown quality in a tiny screen is just silly. Now if you tell me that there is some interactions (say chat lines/requests), may be there is a market.

We'll see if you sing the same tune when your car breaks down on the way to your girlfriend's house and the towing company says they'll be there in four hours...and you realize you've forgotten your laptop.

Re:Interesting

[thc69]

No, the other way around: Pigs are for porn

Don't you mean "In Soviet Russia..."

Re:Interesting

[kalleguld]

I'm new here, you insensitive clod!

Re:Interesting

[nightfire-unique]

A fear or pornography is rooted in the religious belief that on some level, sex itself is harmful and/or immoral. Consider the term: innocent. Someone who is a virgin is often described as innocent. The opposite of innocent is guilty. Guilty of what?

We are a heavily Christian-influenced society and many of our collective morals are derived from this. It's still so pervasive that we don't recognize it. But we are changing, slowly, to a more neutral "live and let live" mentality.

Re:Interesting

[noidentity]

"2. That said, I would say that 95% of violently anti-pornography people are, at some level, anti-sex."

Yet they keep reproducing! I guess one or two exceptions is all it takes...

Re:Interesting

[Run4yourlives]

(in Montréal, we have sex-shop advertisement in the subway and animated sex advice columns on the subway electronic information system)

When's the last time you you were outside of la belle province? Seriously, there are more sex shops in Calgary than I've ever seen in Montreal, spare Ste. Catherine's street maybe.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be overlooking something.
By your numbers, only 5% of women are lesbians!

Self-ownage.

Re:Interesting

[flyingfsck]

Most Canadians non-religious. It varies from about 10% in the west to 30% in Quebec.

Re:Interesting

[Cocoshimmy]

Yes, but how many strip clubs are there in Calgary compared to Montreal? Even on a per capita basis, there are significantly more in Montreal. Not only that, most of the clubs in Montreal offer a $10 "Danse contact" along with other erotic shows which are generally not found in Calgary or many other canadian cities. (from what I have eard).

But I agree, even in Calgary and most other Canadian cities, it's still better than the US. In Seattle, alcohol isn't allowed in Strip clubs and they tried to pass a "4 foot rule" which, as stated, forbits the stripper from getting within 4 feet of the customer. But besides that, all the girls here look like they got hit by a brick so you probably don't want them within 4 feet of you anyways.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Most Canadians non-religious. It varies from about 10% in the west to 30% in Quebec.

Self-identified non-religious, by province, west to east:
BC: 35.9%
Alta: 23.6%
Sask: 15.7%
Man: 18.7%
Ont: 16.3%
PQ: 5.8%
NB: 8.0%
PEI: 6.7%
NS: 11.9%
NL: 2.5%
Canada: 16.5%

There dies another myth, since the four provinces that are worth a damn actually are in the reverse order from what you describe and the rest aren't significant outliers.

Data from: http://tinyurl.com/ywg4k7 (Stats Canada, 2001 Census, click 'select another region' to view other provinces.)

Re:Interesting

[Rick BigNail]

Move to BC. It's the "liberal" heaven :)

Re:Interesting

[Pubb]

True, but here the actors have to moan in both French & English.

Re:Interesting

[phaggood]

> Janet Epp Buckingham and her League of Decency

No.. frakkin... way!?!? "League of Decency"?!?!?

I have SO gotta join THAT!!!

God, the decisions I gotta make! Tights and cape? Monacle and knickers? Speed suit? Adventurin' boots?

I'm off to Joann Fabrics....!

Re:Interesting

[bhiestand]

There are lots of p0rn on the internet. They charge $4 for just dl'ing p0rn without unknown quality in a tiny screen is just silly. Now if you tell me that there is some interactions (say chat lines/requests), may be there is a market.

We'll see if you sing the same tune when your car breaks down on the way to your girlfriend's house and the towing company says they'll be there in four hours...and you realize you've forgotten your laptop. Nerd. In that situation, I'd call my girlfriend up, tell her to bring a blanket and come to where I am. We'd spread the blanket out somewhere nearby and have some crazy semi-public sex while waiting for the tow truck to arrive. I might, however, use my camera phone to take some videos and pictures.

Re:Interesting

[bhiestand]

No, I think it was speaking ironically!

Re:Interesting

[bhiestand]

Well, it is a rather large cage...

Re:Interesting

[bhiestand]

Most of it is by a bunch of backwards-thinking liberals that just can't side with science and admit that God does not exist, and must constantly force their beliefs upon our legal system. Where's the separation of church and state in that?. Uhhh... ... I've heard of people blaming the liberals for a lot of things, but I think this is the first time I've heard of religious nutjobs being called liberals. I suppose I agree with the rest of what you said, though.

Re:Interesting

[bhiestand]

kekekekkekekekekeke!!!!11shift!!!1one11eleven How did you hack my password? I'm calling the Australian FBI on you :'(

Re:Interesting

[bhiestand]

Ok, I'll feed you.

No one ever said sex is harmful or immoral; as I just said we NEED it for procreation. It would be an obvious problem if Christians said it is immoral knowing that it is required to carry on the species. It is immoral when performed for money or entertainment or where the intent is anything but what it was intended for.

Right, so by the design of Christianity, the strongest human urge (aside from hunger and thirst, which you can only deny for limited periods of time) is evil unless it is done specifically to produce more Christians. I'm glad you recognize that there is a logical paradox here, but I'm saddened that you accept their explanation. Should an infertile married couple be allowed to have sex? If not, why can't they express their love towards each other? If so, why? God has already made His will evident by making one of them unable to procreate. If they should, how is this different from a gay couple having sex? I mean, they can't procreate, but if they're doing it to express love for one another...

We have always had a live and let live mentality. There have been no laws respecting an establishment of religion that say you have to be a certain religion.

Right, like the blue laws, the jim crow laws, womens' suffrage since the founding of the US, prohibition, the prosecution of educators for teaching Darwinism because it conflicted with Genesis. Oh, wait, those are all religiously-inspired state-enforced morals, aren't they? I mean, you can go to jail for sinning even if it doesn't harm anyone. I understand that Christians feel they are saving souls by making it less desirable for people to sin, but they are still putting their religious beliefs into law.

Christians don't care what you do (again, there are displays of religious teachings but not commandments or laws) but there is a difference between them not caring what you do and still being able to do what they do without you complaining about how it infringes on your rights when they aren't making you do *anything* with their *displays*.

Right, and when I'm standing trial in court for smoking marijuana at home, surrounded by armed guards wearing crosses, staring up at "You shall have no other gods before me", I'm just admiring a wonderful display.

However no morals means we no longer have a sense of having to suffer the consequences of our actions. We are then left to live a life of just another animal on this planet. We already have free will to choose; what is the point of having that if we don't have to suffer for bad choices? (snip) Porn on cell phones would increase the lack of morals in the U.S. and remove any sense of responsiblity we have to live up to a certain standard of living. I'm sure you agree with the law that says murder is a crime and you would probably agree with that even if it wasn't one of the 10 Commandments but when you start making your own moral law you still have to answer for your actions.

Ok, so in the beginning of your argument you say that morals are what sets us apart from animals. I suppose I would partially, somewhat, sort of agree. Now how are your morals determined? Obviously you draw some of your morals from the bible. You don't draw all of them from the bible, because you aren't stoning unbelievers to death, bombing abortion clinics, and converting people to Christianity by your sword. You likely haven't killed anyone when you found out they were working on the sabbath, either. The rest of your argument stems from your definition of morals. I don't see sexual entertainment as an intrinsically immoral thing. Of course you do, based on your bible, but me watching sex on my cell phone does not harm anyone else in our society. If you are correct, I will go to hell and suffer eternally, but surely you will not be punished for having the compassion to allow me to make my own choices.

We all agree that murder should be illegal. It has been in every known society in the history o

Re:Interesting

[bhiestand]

Yes, but how many strip clubs are there in Calgary compared to Montreal? Even on a per capita basis, there are significantly more in Montreal. Woohoo! A new first for me! This is the first time I've seen two Canadians arguing over who has more sex businesses...

In Seattle, alcohol isn't allowed in Strip clubs and they tried to pass a "4 foot rule" which, as stated, forbits the stripper from getting within 4 feet of the customer. But besides that, all the girls here look like they got hit by a brick so you probably don't want them within 4 feet of you anyways.(emphasis mine) Bloody hell, you're just another American? You just killed my excitement.

I have to say, though, that the "4 foot rule" is a lot better than what they did in my town. They waited until a strip club was almost built, then they passed an ordnance that banned them. There was a long legal fight and, eventually, that went away. So they passed another one that said "No strip clubs within 300 yards of a church", then they built a church nearby and forced the club to close. End result? It cost me $10 in gas every time I wanted to go to a strip club and less of the girls were local. Oh, and increased DUIs on the highway to the nearest populous city.

Re:Interesting

[Cocoshimmy]

I AM NOT AMERICAN. I am a Canadian living in the US.

That sucks about your town though. Doesn't sound much like Canada, sounds more like the work of right wing christians like those we have here in the US. Where abouts is your town? However, look on the bright side: at least you can get within 4 feet of them.

Re:Interesting

[bhiestand]

Typical suburb near Los Angeles. Don't get me wrong, religious people are crazy no matter where you go. They've just amassed far too much power in the US.

Re:Interesting

[thc69]

I call bullshit. This is slashdot. Your girlfriend can't drive unless somebody inflates her and animates her first. Then again, maybe you can keep a spare in the trunk, right next to the spare tire.

If she does manage to get there, and you do make videos...can you send them to me?

Re:Interesting

[bhiestand]

Ahh, that's where you're mistaken. The "no girlfriends" rule only applies to UIDs below 100,000. Those of us with higher numbers are doomed to suffer eternal harassment over the number of digits in our UIDs, so we're allowed to have girlfriends as compensation.

Sadly, I'm not allowed to share videos with friends anymore. I haven't specifically been forbidden from sharing them with strangers, but I think it might affect my ability to get nookie if it was discovered. Sorry.

Blame Canada jokes

[RelliK]

in 3...2...1...

Re:Blame Canada jokes

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't like close-up moose and beaver? And I don't mean the beaver you're thinking of... well, guess who you can blame?

Re:Blame Canada jokes

[WorldDominationOrBus]

Canada, the land of poutine and poutout and poutine and poutout and poutine and ...

Re:Blame Canada jokes

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes but would you *want* Canadian porn?

http://southpark.grooky.com/les_persos/images/Celi ne_Dion.gif

That's it...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm moving to Canada.

Heil Maple Leaf!

Unfortunate phrasing in TFA

[patio11]

"They can keep it in their pocket."

Re:Unfortunate phrasing in TFA

[chris_mahan]

I think it was more tongue-in-cheek.

\me ducks.

Re:Unfortunate phrasing in TFA

[arivanov]

Err...

You are applying the wrong perspective. We are talking about a Canadian telecommunication company here, not the users. They have a long history here as a country. After all another Canadian company already got every single exec and 90% of the gadget freaks armed with a vibrator in their crotch area which they can after that twiddle with two thumbs to extract extra satisfaction from.

So adding some visuals to the already existing executive services is very logical.

Nothing new and surprising here, move along

Selling porn?

[GMontag]

I still can not figure out why anybody buys porn when so much of it is still free, as in beer as it were.

Guessing it might be harder to get free on one's phone as I have not tried to get it at all on mine, but still.

Re:Selling porn?

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

Paying for quality, I guess. Not that I'd pay, but most of what I get is torrents of questionable legality.
It also depends on what you want. If you had a really specific fetish and there was a site for it, I could see paying for it rather than having to settle for whats mainstream.

Not to mention the crowd that just doesnt know any better.

Re:Selling porn?

[lachlan76]

If you had a really specific fetish and there was a site for it, I could see paying for it rather than having to settle for whats mainstream

That's true. Plenty of videos of nurses on the trackers, most of which have a senior nurse come in. But how often easy is it to find a video of Senior Administrative Nurses?

Re:Selling porn?

[GMontag]

Thank goodness I like lesbian bondage porn! It is incredibly easy to find free. Now if I could only find the free beer as in porn . . .

Re:Selling porn?

[neoform]

You wouldn't be able to get it for free if some people didn't pay for it.

Also, this new cell phone deal is pretty sweet, not I can download porn on the bus!

Re:Selling porn?

[Orgazmus]

The Bernard has spoken!

Re:Selling porn?

[donaldm]

Canada is not the only country were "Adult Content" (politically correct definition for porn) is being provided by Telecoms. It is being done in Australia and New Zealand as well and is projected by management to rake in billions of dollars. The important thing from a political perspective is for the politicians to say to the the voters that we are protecting the children by making sure they cannot download anything that may upset them even though they may "borrow" dad's mobile. Of course this does not stop a kid from sneaking a peek at dad's porno (err "Adult Content") magazine.

Not sure about the UK and the USA but I would not be surprised if this is being implemented as well (probably by stealth) because the Telecoms that are over here are global corporations.

Re:Selling porn?

[Pig Hogger]

I still can not figure out why anybody buys porn when so much of it is still free, as in beer as it were.

There is one of them born every minute.

Re:Selling porn?

[Anonymous Coward]

I ate all your bees.

understatement

[scenestar]

Telus decided to introduce the service after noticing that there existed a certain 'segment of the population that is interested in that content'

You mean 98.7 percent of the entire adult population.

Re:understatement

[rucs_hack]

At least they didn't say they paid for a survey...

Re:understatement

[metlin]

You mean 98.7 percent of the entire adult population.

Male adult population - most women I know do not particularly care for porn. Stories, on the other hand. Oh yeah, boobies for men and smut for women.

Re:understatement

[Anonymous Coward]

Women don't like mainstream porn as it's catered to the typical hetrosexual male, and thus the porn tends to only concentrate on the female. Mainstream porn is also very impersonal, the 'actors' do not have an intimacy.

However as a gay male I have encountered alot of females who enjoy watching homosexual porn, or hetrosexual porn where the emphasis is on the male, and they would reather watch intimate sceens rather than a quick rump.

Re:understatement

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever read a romance novels?!

Re:understatement

[Anonymous Coward]

As a straight male, I also dislike "mainstream" porn. It's interesting if you're an adolescent virgin, but it's trite and transparently fake to me. I'd love to see intimate, candid, even feminist pornography. For example, I want lesbian porn without the ridiculous toys and overacting. It probably exists, but it's buried in the cheap trash that dominates the industry.

Re:understatement

[eMbry00s]

More like 49.8% (there are more women than men).

Re:understatement

[Pig Hogger]

Male adult population - most women I know do not particularly care for porn. Stories, on the other hand. Oh yeah, boobies for men and smut for women.

You obviously haven't seen women line-up at the 281 in Montréal...

Re:understatement

[Anonymous Coward]

In other words, approximately the number of non-blind people.

Re:understatement

[Anonymous Coward]

As a straight male, I also dislike "mainstream" porn. It's interesting if you're an adolescent virgin, but it's trite and transparently fake to me. I'd love to see intimate, candid, even feminist pornography. For example, I want lesbian porn without the ridiculous toys and overacting. It probably exists, but it's buried in the cheap trash that dominates the industry. Here you go.

Rip-off

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

mobile browsers to purchase both photographic and video adult-oriented content from Telus, at an average of CD$4 per download.

Goddamn! $4 for images & videos... I guess Canadian Telcos are as fond of screwing their customers as the US's.

Re:Rip-off

[hjf]

$4 Canadian is like, what? a dime?

Re:Rip-off

[Virak]

You'd need a few more zeroes for that.

$4 CAD = about -$0.02 USD and a punch in the face.

Re:Rip-off

[nmb3000]

$4 Canadian is like, what? a dime?

Ah, poor Canada. For those confused about America's northern neighbor here are some comparisons:

America: A country with four seasons: spring, summer, fall, winter.
Canada: A country with two seasons: cold and not-as-cold (but still pretty cold).

America: Has the most powerful military machine on the planet.
Canada: Has two jeeps and one helicopter, currently waiting on parts.

America: Finds it difficult to apologize, especially to China.
Canada: Apologizes as a form of introduction.

And the one that reminded me of all this:

American: Wouldn't bend over to pick up a Canadian quarter.
Canadian: Wouldn't do it either.

I kid, I kid. (source)

Re:Rip-off

[B3ryllium]

As a Telus Mobility customer, and formerly a Telus DSL customer, I can say that they are possibly MORE fond of customer rapeage than US providers.

In fact, while they provide smartPhone services, they don't even offer a plan with unlimited data! Crazy.

Re:Rip-off

[RealGrouchy]

Canada: A country with two seasons: cold and not-as-cold (but still pretty cold).

Cute, but here in Ottawa, the two seasons are Winter and Construction.

- RG>

Re:Rip-off

[TheShadowzero]

You mean, $0.002.

Re:Rip-off

[karmatic]

Better than Phoenix - as it never gets really cold (although there was a little snow around a week ago, go figure), it's always construction season.

When we first moved here, my mother told my father "I'll love you till construction finishes at Sky Harbor (the airport)". 14 years later, construction is still going strong. She grew up here, and it was going strong then, too.

Re:Rip-off

[theuedimaster]

Remember dude.. it's $4 in Canadian dollars. To purchase pictures of American porn stars. God bless globalism.

Re:Rip-off

[TrevorB]

"I guess Canadian Telcos are as fond of screwing their customers as the US's"

We are talking about *Telus* here, the company so evil that locked out its workers for almost a year when they asked for a simple pay raise. Everyone hates them up here. They're one of the main reasons I switched to Vonage.

Re:Rip-off

[0rionx]

America: A country with four seasons: spring, summer, fall, winter.
Canada: A country with two seasons: cold and not-as-cold (but still pretty cold).

California: A country with two seasons: hot and not-as-hot (but still pretty ugly).

Re:Rip-off

[dargon]

>America: Finds it difficult to apologize, especially to China.
>Canada: Apologizes as a form of introduction.

Yep, we're always going around saying sorry for the crap the Americans have pulled ;)

Re:Rip-off

[ThreeDeadTrolls]

Its the canadian dollar, so $4 is like.... a nickle and some lint in the states.

Re:Rip-off

[CastrTroy]

$4 Canadian can still buy you 4 iTunes songs.

Re:Rip-off

[Goaway]

And in the states, $4 is a nickle and a bit more lint: http://www.google.com/search?q=4%20cad%20in%20usd

Re:Rip-off

[MoanNGroan]

Maybe a decade ago, Mr. American Educated, but thanks to your wise choice in wise (snicker) leadership, world policy, and instant gratification, its now a lot closer to par.

Go, George!!! (Too bad you can't get him in for a 3rd term...eh)

Re:Rip-off

[hawkeesk8]

Actually, here is the conversion as of today's rate:

$4.00 Canadian = $USD 3.38

The Canadian dollar, as you can see, is actually quite strong, or more realistically put, the American dollar is actually quite weak from its historical values.

Re:Rip-off

[hjf]

It was a joke.

But I'm not American either. I'm from Argentina. Our peso, 6 years ago, was 1=1 with the US Dollar. January 6, 2002, the peso was "let free". Now it's worth USD 0,33. Yes. I'm laughing at my own disgrace.

Re:Rip-off

[Headcase88]

It's true, the Canadian dollar has out-paced the USD in the last few years. IIRC, The launch Wii cost only a little more than the launch Gamecube here, to put in comparison for the video game players at Slashdot. (Game players constituting about a big a "segment" here as porn fans)

Reach out and touch...

[Anonymous Coward]

...yourself.

TELUS already offers Adult content on TELUS TV.

[rei_slashdot]

TELUS already offers Adult content on TELUS TV.

Re:TELUS already offers Adult content on TELUS TV.

[RollingThunder]

Good grief, you actually got the capitalization right! ;)

Re:TELUS already offers Adult content on TELUS TV.

[Rick BigNail]

Using too much Outlook.

Pornophone

[Dude163299]

Yup, thats what they call it. Any questions?

Re:Pornophone

[twitter]

Any questions?

Does it come with a vibrator?

Re:Pornophone

[Anonymous Coward]

If it doesn't come with a vibrator, you can always use http://www.vibrafoon.com/ to turn your phone into one. I especially like the Red Devil!

Such a dirty word...

[Frosty Piss]

"Pornography" is such a dirty word... Let's call it what it is, erotica.

Re:Such a dirty word...

[__aaclcg7560]

I think a lot of American politicians would have trouble spelling that word. That's why they call it smut. Only four letters and it rhymes with Smurf (i.e., the cartoon show with one girl and so many guys).

Re:Such a dirty word...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's still a sin wathever you call it, you know?

Re:Such a dirty word...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent informative! Prior to this point in my life. I was not aware that the words 'smut' and 'smurf' rhymed.

Re:Such a dirty word...

[Joebert]

No, erotica is when she makes you use candles & whipcream & stuff.
I don't plan on doing anything more than spanking my monkey on the back of the city bus with this stuff, let's keep it short & sweet, it's porn.

Re:Such a dirty word...

[KDR_11k]

i.e., the cartoon show with one girl and so many guys

You didn't watch the later episodes, did you? They added an underage girl to the Smurf village.

Re:Such a dirty word...

[argStyopa]

Maybe before it shows up in US Congress, they should offer "Pages gone Wild!" or "Jimmy the Intern gets to sit on the Senator's Staff"....my guess then they would be fine with it.

Totally OT, but in my particular dialect (USA Upper midwest) they don't even come CLOSE to rhyming. Where are you from?
SMUT rhymes with shut or cut.
SMURF rhymes with earth or birth.

Re:Such a dirty word...

[eMbry00s]

That's why they call it smut. Only four letters and it rhymes with Smurf

They would make horrible poets. Also goes to show why the American legislation is in the state it is.

Re:Such a dirty word...

[__aaclcg7560]

GASP! Child abuse! Is there no end to Papa Smurf's reign of terror?! :P

Re:Such a dirty word...

[babyrat]

Smurf rhymes with smut?

Apparently spelling and rhyming need extra attention...

Re:Such a dirty word...

[__aaclcg7560]

No wonder I failed poetry. ;)

Re:Such a dirty word...

[the_wesman]

um.... if by "rhymes" you mean "doesn't rhyme, but starts with the same 3 letters" then yes, by that definition it would "rhyme" with smurf ....
-w

Re:Such a dirty word...

[GentlemanRogue]

Rhymes? I do not think that word means what you think it means...

Interesting Paranoia

[Anonymous Coward]

*rolls eyes*

And upon what basis will these "wackos" succeed? In case you didn't notice this is one party selling porn to another adult party. Which is still legal in the states.

Re:Interesting Paranoia

[__aaclcg7560]

Simple. If you're viewing pornographic material in a public area and people call the cops, you can be busted for indecent exposure. Do it within distance of a school, get busted as a child molester. Remember, not all "wackos" are fundamentalist fruitcakes. Some are concerned citizen who don't want their neighborhoods turned into a red light district.

Re:Interesting Paranoia

[Anonymous Coward]

Because CERTAINLY it is not only religious wackos who think viewing pornographic material within distance of a school constitutes child molestation.

Re:Interesting Paranoia

[the_womble]

No, they are mostly agnostic wackos. That is why Britain (a mostly agnostic and atheist country) seems to have more of them per capita than the US (a mostly Christian country which contains most of the world's Christian fundamentalists).

Re:Interesting Paranoia

[montyzooooma]

"That is why Britain (a mostly agnostic and atheist country) seems to have more of them per capita than the US"

That would explain why our free to air TV is so bland and safe and not at all full of swearing and nudity. Oh wait a minute....

But seriously, aside from the Jerry Springer Opera fiasco which was an extremely organised campaign, we don't have anything like the Mary Whitehouse movement given any mainstream credibility. And the religious movements that there are react to perceived threats to their religion (the Jerry Springer Opera again...) which is as expected and don't seem to bother much with lewdity in general. Is lewdity a word? It should be.

Re:Interesting Paranoia

[the_womble]

I was specifically talking about the particular parnoia in the parent comment, which Britain is overflowing with. If you compare Britain with continental Europe, it is not particuarly religious, but comparatively restrictive about porn etc.

Re:Interesting Paranoia

[Anonymous Coward]

Lewdness

Re:Interesting Paranoia

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

In case you didn't notice this is one party selling porn to another adult party. Which is still legal in the states.

Yes, but if AT&T, say, started selling porn this way, then significant groups who have dealings with AT&T would pull out of other deals refusing to deal with such a company. So even though someone may want to buy porn from AT&T, and AT&T may want to sell it, other parties who deal with AT&T get to veto it. At each stage, all of the parties appear free to choose which contracts they enter into, and yet the net effect is that because of the culture of prudishness in the US, parties can't buy and sell quite as freely as they'd like to.

Re:Interesting Paranoia

[skinfaxi]

"...the culture of prudishness in the US..."

You must be living in a different US than I. I can't help but see WGW constantly advertised on TV. Babyslut clothes in Target. Porn mags at the 7-11. The plethora of porn lovers on /. The non-stop pornification of pretty much everything. What prudishness exactly are you referring to?

Re:Interesting Paranoia

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

What prudishness exactly are you referring to?

The one that results in a nationwide furore over the accidental revelation of a nipple during a live TV performance. The one that causes a bare ass to be blurred out when shown on an innocent movie like The Full Monty. The one where you can't use a nude female body to sell a product used in the shower. I'm probably referring to the US you don't realise exists until you step outside its borders for a few minutes to contrast and compare. It's also the culture where people care more about the sexual infidelity of the president than the sacrifice of thousands of lives for a war started under false pretenses.

Re:Interesting Paranoia

[Anonymous Coward]

There was a "60 Minutes" segment, originally shown within the the past couple of years, repeated in the past few months, that dealt with just this -- big name companies in the US making lots of money selling this stuff.

Re:Interesting Paranoia

[Anonymous Coward]

"...war started under false pretenses." And you just sat back saying everyone else needs to get out for a bit and take a look around. It would be nice if you had plan with this Candian phone company, would it not? I mean besides all the porn you could swap with your buddies, you could also add their 'Push-tO-Talk' feature, which then you could use when Calling your friend 'The Kettle' on his 'Black' phone.

Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[phillymjs]

'We're fairly certain that if our competitors in Canada haven't launched it, they will soon. Same in the US.'

Yeah, right, buddy. Maybe the population as a whole is a little more liberal up there in America Junior, but if AT&T, Verizon or any other U.S. cell provider even floats that idea in a meeting, the Bible-thumpers will start up the boycotts and letter-writing campaigns and raise all kinds of hell to make sure it never comes to fruition.

~Philly

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[__aaclcg7560]

Nothing will happen until porn appears on the iPhone and the "Think Different" posters will have Albert Einstein wearing a G-string.

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[Lotvog]

Maybe the population as a whole is a little more liberal up there in America Junior

Pfft, I don't know what you're talking about: Alaska voted for Bush!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_preside ntial_election,_2000_(detail)

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[johncadengo]

You don't need to be a Bible thumper to not want porn all over your cell phones and potentially purchasable by your children, who already go wild enough with ring tones, picture mail, and text messages to run up your bill. Imagine a 13 year old who got a hold of a phone with porn where ever and whenever they wanted. They already go over their prepaid minutes enough.

The safeguards in place to keep bill prices low aren't enough as it is (phone companies have cheated enough parents of their money when their children are irresponsible with overage charges).

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[Blkdeath]

The safeguards in place to keep bill prices low aren't enough as it is (phone companies have cheated enough parents of their money when their children are irresponsible with overage charges).

Here's a novel idea for those parents; take the cell phone away from the child(ren) and make them work to pay off the bill.

As an added bonus, the spoiled brats might gain a sense of responsibility and perhaps a bit of work ethic out of the deal. Then they might appreciate why 1000 primetime minutes is a big deal.

Oh, sorry, I forgot it was up to network television, telephone companies and other multi-national corporations to raise your children. Carry on.

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[Anonymous Coward]

The safeguards in place to keep bill prices low aren't enough as it is (phone companies have cheated enough parents of their money when their children are irresponsible with overage charges).

Have you ever thought about just sitting down with your kids going over the bill and hitting them?

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[Anonymous Coward]

Please! How can I delete that image from my brain? Goatse.cx and tubgirl I can live with, but the mere *thought* of Einstein in a G-string makes me shiver!

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[KDR_11k]

Or, you know, just reclaiming the money from their allowance?

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[c6gunner]

Yeah, right, buddy. Maybe the population as a whole is a little more liberal up there in America Junior, but if AT&T, Verizon or any other U.S. cell provider even floats that idea in a meeting, the Bible-thumpers will start up the boycotts and letter-writing campaigns and raise all kinds of hell to make sure it never comes to fruition.

Yep. After all, those dang bible-thumpin' hillbillies did such an efficient job of banning pornographic books, magazines, phone-sex lines, "adult shops", VHS, DVD's, Cable TV stations, and internet sites, that this cell-phone thingy should be a breeze for them, eh?

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[Overzeetop]

Yep. After all, those dang bible-thumpin' hillbillies did such an efficient job of banning pornographic books, magazines, phone-sex lines, "adult shops", VHS, DVD's, Cable TV stations, and internet sites, that this cell-phone thingy should be a breeze for them, eh?

Books - been going on forever. SCOTUS limited their efforts, though
Magazines - see above, also major retail chains have taken them out of their racks specifically because of such pressure
phone-sex - ???
adult shops - you're kidding, right? You won't find a permit issued if the local churches don't want it.
VHS/DVDs - see magazines. Also they can fall under the adult shops laws above - in the bible belt they'll stop it
Cable TV - already doesn't have real porn; access to internet sites are banned in some jurisdictions (though rarely enforced)

So, yes, they would make sure it never hit cell phones.

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[AK Marc]

"adult shops"

What's the current radius on those shops to schools? A half mile? There are very few areas not near a school. And there have been more than one adult shop that has been in business for 20+ years, only to be shut down when a church/school moves in next door. No grandfathering for the smut. So, I could shut down any shop you point at. All I have to do is start a church or school next door. Are you really claiming that targeted closings of adult shops with no valid recourse is somehow enlightened?

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[Geak]

When the bible-thumpers start up their little riot, just ask them why the first few pages of their bible are stuck together. (The part where adam and eve are still naked)

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee...sucks to be you, here the biggest threat we'd have is if someone united the Stoners...not gonna happen any time soon, and they're too mellow to oppose anything.

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[c6gunner]

Buddy, the US produces 95% of the porn that I see. There's no way in hell you're going to convince me that they're all a bunch of puritans.

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[Overzeetop]

Hey, I live in the south (on the fringe, actually), and up until just a decade or two ago, we still had blue laws - i.e. businesses could not be open on Sundays. You would ba amazed at the self-rightousness of these people.

Re:Coming soon to U.S.? Ha!

[c6gunner]

That doesn't surprise me too much. From what I've seen while traveling in the south, people there seem to try and act a lot more "righteous". The thing is, if anything I've had more luck with women in the southern states than in the northern ones :) I'm not going to try and pretend to understand it, but either way, you can't sum up all of the US with any one stereotype. You may as well try to stereotype a typical "european". It just doesn't work.

What really is wrong with porn?

[bogaboga]

I hope I will get a meaningful answer from the Slashdot crowd over here. Porn to me, replicates what happens in real life...in the real world. What's wrong with letting those who want to have it, have it?

Some will mention morals...my question will be: Morals according to who? Why should one want all of us to live according to "their morals?"

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Anonymous Coward]

Porn to me, replicates what happens in real life...in the real world.

Dude, if that were true, every guy on Earth would aspire to be a plumber or pizza delivery boy.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[hasbeard]

Well, except for the fact that it demeans women (and men for that matter), cheapens and turns a God-given gift into a commodity, reduces human beings from being to people to be loved and honored to being objects and tools for one's one self-gratification-- not much I guess.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[RuBLed]

"Porn to me, replicates what happens in real life...in the real world."

Are you sure? IMHO, it's equivalent to saying that CSI / TV-Drama's replicates what happens in real life in the real world, but in a more exagerrated way.. And by exagerrated, you would know what I mean. O wait,.. this is slashdot.....

IMHO, I find these morals good in a sense that I would prefer living in area where such good morals are upheld than in one where it isn't. It brings a sense of protection for me, my family, etc...

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[king-manic]

Well, except for the fact that it demeans women (and men for that matter), cheapens and turns a God-given gift into a commodity, reduces human beings from being to people to be loved and honored to being objects and tools for one's one self-gratification-- not much I guess.

Are you talking about pornography or labor. I get confused about the difference....

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Virak]

Well, except for the fact that it demeans women (and men for that matter),

This argument has always confused me. If people are willing to be in porn, even if it 'demeans' them, then why shouldn't they be allowed to? They're adults, and they're only 'harming' themselves, if it could even be called that. It just doesn't make sense, unless you mean that it demeans *everyone*, in which case it makes even *less* sense in other ways.

cheapens and turns a God-given gift into a commodity,

If you can find significant evidence of a loving god, of the kind whose gifts would be worthy respecting, then maybe you'd have a point.

reduces human beings from being to people to be loved and honored to being objects and tools for one's one self-gratification

See above. If you mean human beings that are in porn, it's their choice, and if you mean all humans, I'd like to see you explain how that works.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[JebusIsLord]

I expect the grandparent is the sort of person who gets sex and demeaning physical labour mixed up quite often.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[king-manic]

Are you sure? IMHO, it's equivalent to saying that CSI / TV-Drama's replicates what happens in real life in the real world, but in a more exagerrated way.. And by exagerrated, you would know what I mean. O wait,.. this is slashdot.....

IMHO, I find these morals good in a sense that I would prefer living in area where such good morals are upheld than in one where it isn't. It brings a sense of protection for me, my family, etc

I miss the point of the first sentence. CSI is to crime investigation as Porn is to sex. Both are fake replicas that stress quick umm.. resolution over the truth behind normal situations.

IMHO, areas of strict morality only hide the vices better. Strict morality does not generally make you a better person. For each giving and self sacraficing "moral" person there is a dozen hippocritical, hateful "moral" person. Ditto for the Immoral.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

>Porn to me, replicates what happens in real life...in the real world.

How often have you seen someone in a porn film use a condom or say "I love you"?

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[hasbeard]

Actually, I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed to. The OP asked a question, and I answered it. He asked what is wrong with pornography and I replied with the statements you have quoted about people demeaning themselves. I didn't make any statements about what people should be allowed or not allowed to do. The fact that people make a choice to participate in a given behavior doesn't lessen the harm it does to them.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[king-manic]

How often have you seen someone in a porn film use a condom or say "I love you"?

About as often as a slashdoter has used a condom and heard "i love you"?

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Virak]

Okay, then I'm still confused as to how exactly it demeans them.

And don't bring religion or morals into this without proof that your choice of such is correct.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[tsa]

Very good point. Why is porn so much more frowned on than (extreme) violence?

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[king-manic]

Actually, I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed to. The OP asked a question, and I answered it. He asked what is wrong with pornography and I replied with the statements you have quoted about people demeaning themselves. I didn't make any statements about what people should be allowed or not allowed to do. The fact that people make a choice to participate in a given behavior doesn't lessen the harm it does to them.

I used to work on the support side of the adult industry. Working as a tech, webmaster and video editor. Let me say that the individuals that end up in porn aren't "hurt" by porn. They are by no means perfect people. They all have some issue or other and often aren't exactly the definition of "together" They are often strippers. They are often in this profession because they like to party and find this the easiest ways to get the money to continue to do so. Some are truly exploited. These girls have a BF that encourages them to get into stripping and the rest of it. Others are strong women who do it because they have no other skills and happen to look nice. For some it's something extra to make rent. They are generally messed up people to start with, so a little filmed action doesn't make it better or worse.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[grimJester]

Porn to me, replicates what happens in real life..

Speak for yourself :(

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Enrique1218]

Try having sex with a real woman. It like mainstream movies and television in that it is a little different than real life. Everything from the seduction to foreplay to the act is different. Moreover, the balancing of porn and the woman in your life. As women age, they develop imperfections over time including porn stars. But the camera hides alot not to mention new young women are brought in everyday. You might find yourself unfairly comparing your woman to fantasy that porn provides. In addition, porn addiction can also provide problems with your relationship. Personally, I have given up porn for a woman.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Torvaun]

If you can find significant evidence of a loving god, of the kind whose gifts would be worthy respecting, then maybe you'd have a point.

Even as an atheist, I'd say women probably count. That, and vicious plagues on my enemies. I could get behind a god that did more of that.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[anagama]

When GP says "porn is demeaning", it only means that it is demeaning in GP's eyes. Of course, wearing clothes from Sears would demean a person in certain other people's eyes. Simply put, GP is prejudiced against people who have sex on film. Fact is, porn is demeaning only in the sense that certain people with a "holier-than-though" hangup look down on people who are in it.

As a side note, porn could be actually demeaning if someone was forced to perform, but that is really a completely different issue than consensual porn and has nothing to do with sex. In a similar vein, it would be demeaning to be forced to pick up trash in an orange jumpsuit as a community service sentence. In either case, the exertion of control over another is the issue. Which brings us to certain instances in which exertion of control would not be demeaning, e.g., consensual BDSM, but now I'm getting into too many tangents.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[nido]

Porn to me, replicates what happens in real life...in my own private imaginary world.

There, fixed that for you.

I finally 'got it' a month ago, quit the porn and faping cold, and two days later met 'Ms. Right' via teh craigslist. Had to wait two weeks for her to get back to town (lots of emails shortened the usual courtship rituals), and I must say that the real thing is much better than any porn I've ever 'consumed'.

For me, there's no going back - I never really liked porn (other than for how it helped me get off), and that many of the girls obviously weren't happy about what they were doing didn't help.

But you can do whatever you want - freewill and all that. :)

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Bronster]

not to mention new young women are brought in everyday

See, there's your problem.

(now, to make that work in real life...)

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, there are several things wrong:
A) First, I have decided to be a cool guy and cool guys don't like porn and I am saying I don't like pr0n and even though secretly I love pr0n I have to act as if I would hate and despise and pity others who like it or else they might be more liberal and thus more cool than I am.
B) I have the right to be free and to decide (by God's orders) that you are not free to decide if you want it or not
C) I hate to think about others will get all that good money for serving erotic content, and not me
D) It eats up all my disk space, slowing down my disk
E) You might become a hand-addicted and give up looking for Ms. Right or Mrs. Right or Mr. Right
F) After finding Ms/Mrs/Mr. Right, you might want to try some stuff out you see in pro0n, and either
f1) You will like it but (s)he won't and you will suffer
f2) (S)he will like it but you won't and you will suffer
f3) Even the try will ruin your relationship and you will suffer
f4) Both of you will enjoy and you'll become a perverted pair, living happily ever after, but then your home movies will get to the internet and your social life will wasted and you will suffer
F) After finding Ms/Mrs/Mr. Right, you may discover that pr0n is better and ruin your social life for good by returning back to pr0n
G) Our prime quality U.S. pr0n is too good for these Canadian guys, anyway

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[geminidomino]

That all depends on the woman in question. I actually watch porn WITH mine.

It certainly allows for some interesting..er.. "discussions" that in no way damage our relationship.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Plutonite]

Would you like to see your sister in one of those movies? What about your daughter..your mom?

The "ban" discussion does not interest me here, but you need to realize that women being stripped naked, dominated and filmed for people's viewing pleasure is indeed a disgusting and demeaning prospect, even if they are in it of their own accord. I cannot explain this to you any better because this is less about mathematical logic then it is about human feelings. Sure, we've all seen some pr0n in our time, but in what kind of regard do we hold these women? Flesh. Hot asses. Commodities, practically - not very different from prostitutes.

If you think about it, selling the most intimate and emotional experience you have with your body is not only a loss of decency, modesty and all the universal values that drive cultures the world over to approach sex with restraint, it is a loss of human worth as well.
And if you feel my post is a bit too aggressive, remember that the biggest enemies of prostitution..etc are in fact the feminists and the ex-hookers.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Anonymous Coward]

Would you like to see your sister in one of those movies? What about your daughter..your mom?

No. But you know what I'd do about it? Not watch that movie.

women being stripped naked, dominated and filmed for people's viewing pleasure is indeed a disgusting and demeaning prospect

What makes you believe that all women in porn are "dominated"? I've seen plenty of porn where the man and women were on equal ground, or where the woman was dominating the man. Do you think that porn is demeaning to men, too, then? (trust me, plenty of women look watch porn, too)

And if you feel my post is a bit too aggressive, remember that the biggest enemies of prostitution..etc are in fact the feminists and the ex-hookers.

Got any proof of what? From what I've seen, the biggest enemies are fundamentalist Christians. (also, porn is not the same as prostitution)

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[canfirman]

This argument has always confused me. If people are willing to be in porn, even if it 'demeans' them, then why shouldn't they be allowed to?

Here's why.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[dargon]

Because the US was originally populated by the Puritans, a group of people so anal that even the British couldn't stand them.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Anonymous Coward]

> This argument has always confused me. If people are willing to be in porn, even if it 'demeans' them, then why shouldn't they be allowed to?

This argument looks convincing until you change the form of the question:

* If someone is willing to place an enslavement device (or drug or surgery) in their mind so that someone can completely control and enslave them, even if it 'demeans' them, then why shouldn't they be allowed to?

* If someone is willing to sell their non-vital internal organs to pay bills, even if it 'demeans' them, then why shouldn't they be allowed to?

To some extent, society places rules on what people can and can't do to themselves because without such rules the strong would pick on the weak when they are most vulnerable and force them into decisions they'll regret for their lives. When this happens, other societal problems emerges.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Anonymous Coward]

You've known her for less than a month -- two weeks, in real life -- and you think she's "Ms. Right"? Heh. Have fun with that, while it lasts. The first one is always the hardest to get over.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[t0rkm3]

One example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Lovelace

Having worked with and around many sex workers(strippers)... I was a bouncer/floorguy/doorman for a few of the largest strip clubs in Vegas, as well as one very low-end dive in LA. Most of them are at least slightly damaged.

What causes this damage? Who knows, but a lot of them have intimacy issues. Could it have something to do with being overly intimate for long periods of time with strangers? Low self-value? They'll act their shit doesn't stink until you establish a control channel, and then they debase themselves very quickly.

My wife is a former model and stripper. She's done the whole Playmate thing and been a super-highly paid stripper. She's a tough cookie and that past is behind her, but she did feel that the exchange of money for viewing her body, whether in print or in person devalued her self-image. The XXX porn people that I have known have all been severely damaged esp once you got to know them personally and it keeps in line with the level of sacrifice and involvement. Regarding the dominance issue, I think the bigger picture is at work here... The women get paid a great deal more because they are the value item. They also have greater pressure and greater demand to perform all sorts of acts. The high-end women have a great deal of control but the low-end are often single mom's trying to make a few extra bucks... I met the owner's of a fairly successful porn site run out of Vegas and Northridge and they were great fans of divorcee's...

The porn industry also is involved in human trafficking, which raises all sorts of ethical concerns.

Given all of the above, I still don't think that legislation banning the making of or distribution of porn is effective or should be acceptable at the federal level. However, I think individual states can ban pornography if they so choose. This would allow people to gravitate to systems that reflect their value systems... Leaving places like Vegas for those who only want the occasional foray into that realm. I think that legalization of prostitution on a wider scale would defuse the power of the porn industry and allow many of these women to have greater control over their lives. Perhaps even follow SanFran and form a nat'l sex workers union.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[stinerman]

They are just actors. I wouldn't think starring in a porno flick would be any more demeaning than playing a rapist or murderer in a movie. In fact all movies turn people into objects. When I watch a movie or show or whatever, the people are there for my enjoyment.

This comes down to you having a personal problem with two people fucking for money. There is nothing intrinsically different between using someone to get off and using someone to clean your house.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Virak]

Your examples go far beyond demeaning, and you still haven't addressed the question of why people shouldn't be allowed to 'demean' themselves.

You might want to read this Wikipedia article before replying.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Plutonite]

Thank you for that. I haven't seen that many intelligent posts here about the issue, and yours is very interesting as well. Hope someone who still has mod points sees it.

There is actually a lot about dominance and sex, what you said about women being the value item is at the heart of it all. Being viewed naked would understandably cause them problems, but being used as sexual instruments is probably more of a degrading experience. This is why I made the reference to psychology in the first place. Both porn and prostitution take the dignity out of the women involved, and the Lovelace story you pointed to is a perfect example of the gory details of that life.

Slashdot porn addicts need to snap out of the fantasy world being fed to them in pics and movieclips. Underneath, porn is very very ugly.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have a point on the rubbers, but you seriously aren't telling me that you say "I love you" to every chick you pickup?

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[edschurr]

Why don't those people who find porn disagreeable move to somewhere where their values are shared, rather than fucking over the minority who disagrees with them? Besides that, the state level seems way too broad. You would screw over fewer people by acting more locally, eg. at the county-level (I think that's how the USA does it). (Naughty words used only for the irony, and not from anger.)

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[edschurr]

I thought I should add that Home-Owners Associations are a more fair way of keeping oneself surrounded by like-minded people, rather than invoking the ugly face of Government.

I should have called those swears puns rather than irony, btw.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[tehcyder]

That all depends on the woman in question. I actually watch porn WITH mine

I tried that with my wife, but she kept slapping me round the face for looking at other women. And no, I'm not into masochism.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[tehcyder]

I never really liked porn (other than for how it helped me get off), and that many of the girls obviously weren't happy about what they were doing didn't help.

Yeah right, because it's impossible to have a wank without viewing porn of the most extreme and degrading kind.

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[phaggood]

> are you talking about porn or labor?

I think he's talking about what soap, toothpaste, soda and automobile commercial makers refer to as "target market".

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[phaggood]

> Would you like to see your sister in one of those movies? What about your daughter..your mom?

I don't want my sister, mom or daughters to vote republican nor become personal injury lawyers, but I would hate to have a ban on any of these folks.

okay, maybe the injury lawyers, but they'd probably sue me...

Re:What really is wrong with porn?

[wirelessbuzzers]

Pretty much any time you watch porn (OK, I can't speak for you, but when I watch porn), the main purpose it is to ogle the body/s of the wom[ae]n involved, and to get aroused. Being looked at in this way is demeaning because it objectifies the person being looked at: imagine looking at someone like that in real life.

What's more, the action in a lot of pornos (not all of them, mind you, but a significant fraction) is demeaning. The woman in a lot of pornos is just an object of the man's pleasure, and the man is just a proxy for the viewer (particularly given the camera angles and positions commonly chosen in bad porn).

Looking at people in this way is not healthy, nor is offering yourself to be looked at in this way. That's why most religions and many societies require that sex occur in the context of a committed relationship (marriage, usually).

Well...

[Frosty Piss]

I guess Canadian Telcos are as fond of screwing their customers...

It is porn...

Telus

[MarkRose]

Telus is actually a fairly progressive company. They even started using VOIP for long distance back in 2002. Home Internet service is quite reliable (they don't even shape bittorrent traffic, that I'm aware of), and they're often upgrading ADSL service at no extra charge (though I splurged for a 6.0/1.0 connection at $45/mn). They also stand up for their customers, refusing to give out customer details without a subpoena, etc. The Mobility division (cell phones, etc) is also quite competitive, though they do rape you with long distance charges on cellphones, but no one has the same coverage they do. Honestly, this latest move doesn't surprise me too much (though I was surprised when it first showed up on my cell's browsing homepage).

Re:Telus

[Anonymous Coward]

Telus is anything but progressive.

They charge a $5 per month 'long distance admin fee' on your telephone service. It is just a money grab. If you opt out of their expensive long distance service, then your internet charges go up by...you guessed it...$5 per month.

My internet service will cost over $40 per month for the 1.5/.5 connection when my "price protection plan" ends. I'm locked into their crappy service and they said it will cost me $240 if I choose to bail out early.

Their webmail uses unencrypted web pages, so you can't use it from wireless hot-spots. Or pretty much anywhere you don't trust the intermediate ISP(s). It probably isn't safe to use anywhere but from home, so what's the point?

There are other issues as well so I wouldn't call them progressive in any sense of the word unless you call the ability to view porn on a 120 X 120 pixel screen progressive.

Re:Telus

[ceoyoyo]

If only they didn't have to be frequently censured by the CRTC for abysmal customer service, commonly lie to their customers when they do have problems with their services, and have so many problems with their bureaucracy that it takes them a month to actually switch DSL service to a new account.

Re:Telus

[Anonymous Coward]

Telus doesn't shape bittorrent, they outright DISABLE it. I have never been able to use standard bittorrent with my telus ADSL line.

Re:Telus

[RealGrouchy]

Telus is anything but progressive.

They charge a $5 per month 'long distance admin fee' on your telephone service....My internet service will cost over $40 per month ... and they said it will cost me $240 if I choose to bail out early.

How is that not progressive? They're just ahead of the inflation curve!

- RG>

Re:Telus

[nacturation]

They charge a $5 per month 'long distance admin fee' on your telephone service. It is just a money grab. If you opt out of their expensive long distance service, then your internet charges go up by...you guessed it...$5 per month.

My internet service will cost over $40 per month for the 1.5/.5 connection when my "price protection plan" ends. I'm locked into their crappy service and they said it will cost me $240 if I choose to bail out early. Sounds like you made some poor decisions regarding your ISP. Blame yourself.

Their webmail uses unencrypted web pages, so you can't use it from wireless hot-spots. Or pretty much anywhere you don't trust the intermediate ISP(s). It probably isn't safe to use anywhere but from home, so what's the point? It's rather bizarre that you use your ISP's email -- what if you have to change your ISP? Go with a GMail account; it's free, ISP neutral, and allows you to use SSL for everything. Plus, GMail gives you way more storage and likely better spam filtering. Or spend a few bucks and get your own domain name and choose a provider that meets your requirements.

It sounds like your bitterness towards Telus is all due to your own poor choices.

Re:Telus

[quantaman]

They also blocked access to one of their unions websites during a strike.

Re:Telus

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it sounds like his bitterness towards Telus is due to their "crappy service". He says as much in plain English using the words "crappy service". Sheesh, didn't you read his post?

Re:Telus

[Jesus_666]

Their webmail uses unencrypted web pages, so you can't use it from wireless hot-spots. Or pretty much anywhere you don't trust the intermediate ISP(s). It probably isn't safe to use anywhere but from home, so what's the point?

Then why use it? I have no idea whether T-Online offers mail and I don't care - with the freemailers trying to outdo each other in terms of features and with SSL/TLS-secured POP3/SMTP/IMAP servers being the standard (as well as HTTPS-secured webmail interfaces) there's no real reason to tie your mail account to anyone who wants to do anything but provide you with a mail account.

Re:Telus

[nacturation]

No, it sounds like his bitterness towards Telus is due to their "crappy service". He says as much in plain English using the words "crappy service". Sheesh, didn't you read his post? Caveat emptor would have fixed the majority of the issues that poster was experiencing and we would have read a different post that simply said "Yeah, Telus service is crappy and I moved on long ago" without all the irrelevant details about how he locked himself into using them, paying $5/month extra, etc.

Re:Telus

[McDutchie]

It's rather bizarre that you use your ISP's email -- what if you have to change your ISP? Go with a GMail account; it's free, ISP neutral,

You only get that so-called "free" Gmail account in exchange for your privacy. I'd trust almost any ISP with my important data before I'd trust Google. And the idea that it's provider-independent is laughable; you're making yourself dependent on an advertising megacorporation as your email provider, and they don't even have any obligation to provide the service to you; their only obligation is to their shareholders.

and allows you to use SSL for everything.

Gmail lets you use SSL only with POP/SMTP and not for webmail.

Re:Telus

[imsabbel]

Thats why i have my email at my domain. The domain is MINE, and even if i change my internet host, there will still be me@myname.com...

Re:Telus

[McDutchie]

Thats why i have my email at my domain.

<AOL>Me, too.</AOL>

Re:Telus

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you're simply incompetent. I've been using BitTorrent with no issues on my TELUS connection since I had it installed last year.

Re:Telus

[Anonymous Coward]

What exactly do you think the point of unions is in an era where labour laws protect employees from all types of abuse and discrimination? All they do is screw the regular joes, who want to pay a normal price for their products and services instead of financially supporting some outdated institution. Can you imagine paying 30% less for your car? Can you imagine if the socks you bought today were actually made in your country, instead of a third-world nation where the daily wage of a unionized employee can employ an entire factory? None of these will ever be possible as long as unions are around. They do the exact opposite of what they were meant to do: instead of protecting jobs, they drive them away to where labour is cheaper.

Kudos to Telus for sticking it to this archaic monster.

Re:Telus

[necro2607]

They also block incoming connections on port 80, 21, 110 and others for all connections other than "static IP subscribers".

What's wrong with porn on your phone?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you want to sit next to a guy beating off on the bus, on a park bench, or anywhere in public, then possibly have a small child being exposed to it? Come on now, if you want porn, atleast look at it on the privacy of your work computer, your house, or some XXX peep show.

Canada will criminalize this much like how they criminalized "hate speech" online.

Honey I swear the cell phone company put it there

[Dude163299]

Honey I swear I did not put the porn on the phone I dont even like this stuff. The cell phone company framed me....

That noise you hear

[Anonymous Coward]

the "Fap Fap Fap" noise you hear isn't the slashdot audience applauding your (humorous) comment!

What will happen

[Anonymous Coward]

when Canadians and others with porn on their mobilephones, beknownstly or unbekonwnstly illegal in the US arrive in the US and get deatained for it? It all sounds so salacious. what is an agent thinks the "performers" or "models" are not of age (even if there were) how'd you prove it quickly? I see lots of inconveneince. Leave your porn home....

Anyway, what kind of mentality do thse people have needing porn on their phones.. Can't they wait till they get back home (or office at worst).

Talk about people who can't contol their urges.

Re:What will happen

[Jesus_666]

The attitude is "it's technically possible to put it on a mobile to I will pay for being able to do so". Some people would buy anything if it's for the mobile, even if that means they have to get a $5/mo subscription.

Re:What will happen

[ShOOf]

How is it any different from people who have to get their sport scores or watch tv shows on it, you can't wait until you get home to get your sportscenter fix?

Re:What will happen

[Abcd1234]

Anyway, what kind of mentality do thse people have needing porn on their phones.

Did it occur to you that a cell phone is a fairly personal item, whereas computers are often used by a whole family? Thus, for some, it makes more sense to put porn on their phone, rather than place it on a machine where it (or other things, such as browser histories) may be found accidentally by, say, children?

Re:What will happen

[tehcyder]

Anyway, what kind of mentality do thse people have needing porn on their phones.. Can't they wait till they get back home (or office at worst).

It's much easier sneaking off to the loo at work for a quick one off the wrist with your mobile in your pocket, rather than a glossy copy of Redhead Teen Anal Monthly, or a portable DVD player.

Apparently.

It gives a whole new meaning to

[Nybble's Byte]

phone sex.

Nothing, because...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Internet is for porn!

Nothing.

[Virak]

And most people bring up 'morals' because most people are idiots and are incapable of seeing the world from someone else's view, and also incapable of seeing the inherent subjectivity of morality.

Re:Nothing.

[tehcyder]

most people are idiots and are[...]incapable of seeing the inherent subjectivity of morality.

Hmm, well that must make me an idiot then.

If someone doesn't think that (say) torturing children to death for no good reason is immoral, there's not much point in using the word morality at all.

Obvisously, not all cases are so black and white, but you can't write off all discussion of morality as being merely subjective.

Sprint PCS

[Anonymous Coward]

The company I work for makes the application suite that both Telus and Sprint (and many other carriers throughout the world) use for mobile/cellular internet access. At Sprint we see much of the same thing; a good 95% of the web traffic is people surfing for porn. Looking at the logs is a bit interesting; especially the keywords people use on Google.

Perhaps the best, or maybe worst, but definitely the funniest part of all this is when customers call in saying such-and-such website doesn't display on their phone. Then my team gets the pleasure of troubleshooting why a porn site doesn't pull up correctly. We'll even work with the content provider when necessary to get it all fixed.

Oh great

[Stephen Tennant]

As if driving and talking on the phone wasn't dangerous enough. How will I hold the steering wheel?

Re:Oh great

[grimJester]

There's a reason it vibrates.

Re:Oh great

[metlin]

Well, look at the bright side.

At least, you have a use for the cup holder now.

Re:Oh great

[Anonymous Coward]

As if driving and talking on the phone wasn't dangerous enough. How will I hold the steering wheel?

Just take a hint from the women driving down the highway using one hand to hold a mirror while putting make-up on with the other. Just put it between your legs and take control,, oh wait..

Re:Oh great

[RMB2]

Yah, and that's only if you drive an automatic. What about those of us with a stick shift?

Re:Oh great

[ignavus]

"As if driving and talking on the phone wasn't dangerous enough. How will I hold the steering wheel?"

With one hand.

Re:Oh great

[Anonymous Coward]

Duct tape it to your middle hand.

Com'on now

[Tablizer]

Where the hell is open-source pr0n?

Re:Com'on now

[Virak]

They came out with those a while ago, I think they're called 'girlfriends'. I can't seem to find any, though, so I suspect it might've just been a joke.

Re:Com'on now

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody wants to see Linus having sex with Reiser's dead wife.

Re:Com'on now

[Anonymous Coward]

Here: Open Source Sex

Re:Com'on now

[Anonymous Coward]

>Where the hell is open-source pr0n?

Here.

Re:Com'on now

[Scarletdown]

They came out with those a while ago, I think they're called 'girlfriends'. I can't seem to find any, though, so I suspect it might've just been a joke.

Nah. It wasn't a joke. That idea simply got nixed due to an excessive amount of fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Re:Com'on now

[Anonymous Coward]

If I had a girlfriend, there's no way I'd want to share her with the rest of the Slashdot/open source community!

Re:Com'on now

[Tablizer]

[Open source prn] They came out with those a while ago, I think they're called 'girlfriends'.

"Open"? You naive little man.

porn can subsidise non-porn!

[romit_icarus]

Porn is a high margin business, and as long as there are adequate safeguards and above the law, it's ethical.

The moralists may object, but when they see how common phone services like voice, data are cheaper because of the porn revenue stream, they should come on the telco's side.

Of course it will help if the telecom peddles the porn under a different brand name...

Re:porn can subsidise non-porn!

[revolu7ion]

What's this all aboot, eh?

Moderation?

[Vacardo]

With the lack of parental control over minors and their cell phones, what precautions will be taken to stop the under-age abusing this system?

Re:Moderation?

[koning_robot]

Ideally, none.

Re:Moderation?

[BigLug]

We've had phone porn in Australia for a few years now on our 3G network. You can't just view it though, you have to send a snail-mail application for all 'premium' content to the telco with the account holders signature and proof of age. (Premium covers other things in the phone too like pay-per-view so it's not just smut that becomes available, but I bet that's where the money is)

The funniest thing I saw for it was 'wankervision' (my name for it, not theirs!) .. you pay for this movie of a girl giving 'oral stimulation' from the POV of the man. I think you're then supposed to hold the phone in front of you .. what will they think of next?

Re:Moderation?

[rrohbeck]

With the lack of parental control over minors and their cell phones, what precautions will be taken to stop the under-age abusing this system? A cell phone's owner is registered via the contract so it will be trivial compared to an ordinary network connection.
That said, I'm pretty sure today's kiddies know more about circumventing their schools' and parent's blocks than I ever had a need to know. So, official pr0n channels won't make the slightest difference in this regard.

Re:Moderation?

[WK1]

With the lack of parental control over minors and their cell phones, what precautions will be taken to stop the under-age abusing this system?

A teenage boy's "system" is his to abuse as he pleases. The telcos and governments have no responsibility, nor right, to get in the way. And the parent's have no desire to.

free speech? kiss it goodbye.

[twitter]

I'm hoping ... that this excellent example of free speech will hold up as something for America to follow.

Ma Bell porn? I get this 1911 picture of black plastic, black chords and state sponsored domination. That's kinky but not to my taste.

This violates all sorts of common carrier rules. It's clearly a case of offering a service unrelated to communications. In the US, the carriers are guilty of suppressing their competitors in other services and threatening network neutrality.

1. DSL
2. DSL
3. DSL
4. Now fiber

Do you really want your telco as a media outlet?

If you get your wish, be prepared for your ability to publish to rocket back to the 12th century, but worse. They will be charging you for access both ways and applying extra surcharges where it would benefit their publishing business. They will own the press and you will be a "consumer". Your ability to publish will be limited to handbills no one will bother to read because only lunatics would be denied permission to publish electronically.

Desperate move

[roman_mir]

This is a desperate move by Telus to try and retain some of the customers who are going to be leaving to Rogers / Bell Mobility / Whoever once March comes around and the government regulation mandating that the telcos allow customers switch from telco to telco while keeping their phone number comes into effect.

I have been with Telus for a long time and I'll tell you that their phone suck (they don't allow using phones with removable SIM cards, the coverage sucks (well for me it is always bad, I live in Toronto,) the prices are high, there is no reasonable way to use Telus while traveling in Europe.

All I can say to Telus is this: Good luck, and farewell. Once I can transfer my phone number, I am moving to another telco.

Re:Desperate move

[Blkdeath]

I have been with Telus for a long time and I'll tell you that their phone suck (they don't allow using phones with removable SIM cards, the coverage sucks (well for me it is always bad, I live in Toronto,) the prices are high, there is no reasonable way to use Telus while traveling in Europe.

I can't argue about using the phones in Europe, but you're in the same boat with Bell there; they both use CDMA. Moving right along; I live in the GTA myself (east of the city in Durham) and work in both Scarborough and downtown. I've travelled all over the area for work (Oakville, Burlington, London, Kitchener/Waterloo, etc.) and never had a coverage problem.

As for their phones, I'm on my third one and I love it. I've been with them for 4 years, signed 3 year contracts twice and been able to upgrade my phone at the discounted price, break my contract and sign a new one for bonus air time and all other associated benefeits without penalty after two years each time. This time my plan got significantly better (earlier evening time, same daytime minutes, more features, much lower price).

Yeah, the SIM card thing is an annoyance, but hey I've lived with it thus far. It's only a pain when I upgrade phones which only happens every 2 years so it's not a big deal for me.

As for the billing someone else mentioned I have no problem with those either. I signed up for e-billing so I have the past 2 years worth of ebills in my home directory. No more stacks of paper. Their customer service reps are awesome. Any time I've had an issue they resolved it promptly, without question and most important of all they resolved it properly.

When I was with Rogers and Bell, well, they're next to impossible to get issues resolved, they're fanatacal about billing (threatening to cancel my service and charge ludicrous investigation and re-connection fees basically the week after my payment is due), Bell actually re-directed my entire service to their billing department because they can't understand how credit works (if I owe 3 months and I pay for 2, I pay for the oldest month 1 and 2 - NOT 2 and 3). I couldn't believe it when I called 911 and found myself talking to a billing rep. I told her I was upset, but that I'd talk about the issue if she'd kindly phone for a fire truck to my location. She told me matter of factly that she wouldn't do that.

Until I find a really, REALLY good reason to do so I won't be leaving Telus any time soon thanks.

Re:Desperate move

[QBasicer]

"I couldn't believe it when I called 911 and found myself talking to a billing rep. I told her I was upset, but that I'd talk about the issue if she'd kindly phone for a fire truck to my location. She told me matter of factly that she wouldn't do that"

Is this legal?

And they call it...

[ruiner13]

...Phone-a-bone. Smut Message System? Brings new meaning to reaching out and touching someone.

Re:free speech? kiss it goodbye.

[Arivia]

I applaud you for having no idea how the Canadian telecommunications field works. From a Canadian perspective, the idea of porn is a minor issue, and the media issue is a non-issue. It's a completely different game up here, bucko.

Good luck not getting ripped off

[Mr. Samuel]

I agree. I've been with Telus Mobility for 2.5 years now, and the phones, the coverage, the retail-level service, and the billing system suck. I've talked to some nice customer services reps on the phone, though.

Unfortunately, something tells me that all of the cell operators are roughly as bad, even if for different reasons. The cell phone industry feels very anti-consumer and untrustworthy to me. Ever noticed how they basically lie to you about the price of your monthly plan? With Telus, you pay $x for the plan they chose, then they tack on $7-$8 as a "system access fee" or some other nonsense, and charge for 911 access as well! What the hell is with that? Why is that even legal?

Sadly, ever since I've got a cell phone, I've become inseparable from it. It's a cornerstone of my social life. It's like a drug.

Re:Good luck not getting ripped off

[ceoyoyo]

The others are just as bad. Rogers seemed unable to send me a bill for the longest time, and then decided to charge me $4 for each one. At least I can use a standard GSM phone with them though, so I can always threaten to leave... to Fido, who they own now.

I was impressed with Bell -- they don't do the "system access fee" scam at least.

Re:Good luck not getting ripped off

[Anonymous Coward]

I was impressed with Bell -- they don't do the "system access fee" scam at least.

Yes they do. I have one. When they mentioned it to me, they made it sound like it was a one-time thing, or at least that's what I thought. It's $8.95/month, I am pretty sure.

Re:Good luck not getting ripped off

[ceoyoyo]

What province are you in? In Alberta, when I was looking, their advertising specifically brags about no extra fees. I didn't get one though, so they might be lying. I wanted a GSM phone for travel.

The beauty of the mainstreaming of porn

[Anonymous Coward]

The beauty of the mainstreaming of porn is that it is a self-runner. More and more people realize that showing sex on camera is normal, and lose their inhibitions to take part. Put cell phone cameras into the mix and you have a real winner. I see an explosion of home-generated sex videos lately, on sites like youporn and pornoamateurs.be. Only question is: why would Telus customers pay for something that everybody else gets for free?

Re:The beauty of the mainstreaming of porn

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget http://www.xtube.com/ and http://pornotube.com/

wait, I got one

[RelliK]

Canada. The land of the beaver.

Re:I can see it now

[anagama]

Like activating the vibe ring?

At Last! Scientific Proof!

[BillGatesLoveChild]

> mobile browsers to purchase both photographic and video adult-oriented
> content from Telus, at an average of CD$4 per download.

which only goes to prove, using a cellular phone really does make you stupid.

Canadian attitude

[baomike]

I have noticed a (for lack of a better phrase) less prudish attitude in Canada than in the US.
It's just something that is on TV (where I notice it) and so what?

I hope the phone companies don't try it here in the US. It will provoke a backlash that I don't want to endure, and will provide every politician a ready made campaign issue. A perfect issue for your local and not so local demagogue.

Best part? Their tag line:

[ArcSecond]

"The future is friendly"

HELL YES, IT'S FRIENDLY!... Before they just squeezed our nuts. Now they are rubbing our thigh and whispering dirty things in our ear.

Funny, but I don't remember that being in the "futuristic" commercials envisioning how we would be using mobile technology. I am fairly certain I don't remember any money shots, at least.

That means...

[edgarhz]

Mobile masturbation!

The Great White Something

[ShagratTheTitleless]

I hear the big seller is that kinky English on Francophone pr0n. Slap that secessionist ass indeed.

So...

[Joel from Sydney]

Anybody got a torrent link?

Re:Telus Progressive?

[Anonymous Coward]

Progressive, like blocking inbound tcp ports 21, 80, 443 "to secure your PC from virus and hacker activity"?

Anyone up here who is at all serious about their net connection uses Shaw's services instead.

Have you not seen goatse?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really that alone should be sufficient to answer the question "what is wrong with porn?"...

On a more serious note, what's wrong with porn is the objectifying of humans as nothing more than holes or poles.

Examine this logically

[Enrique1218]

First, privacy is the first issue. I don't quite see people viewing porn on the bus, the steps of their job, on the street, or even in their cars. For people that are not unstable, I don't see anyone needing to view this material or participating in related activities in a public location. That reduces people down to their home or some other private venue. Anyone, who owns a computer, can get a significant amount freely through the internet. So, I don't see porn on the cell phone computer competing with the price point of internet porn. Then, there is the technological competition, where any computer has screen realestate that dwarfs those screen found on cell phones.

Re:Examine this logically

[Abcd1234]

Anyone, who owns a computer, can get a significant amount freely through the internet

Unless they don't want to run the risk of their children or spouse finding said material, or evidence of it (such as browser histories, etc). Computers in families do tend to be used by more than just one person, you know...

Oh, and the obligatory...

[ArcSecond]

Anyone made a "hands free" joke yet?

Re:Oh, and the obligatory...

[tehcyder]

Anyone made a "hands free" joke yet?

Not anyone, everyone.

New meaning to this phrase

[juggaleaux]

"Get off the phone!"

Exchange rate aside....

[Anonymous Coward]

Seeings as how this is both a cellular service provider, and in Canada, is it $4 or zero point $4? ...it had to be said

Objectify

[Kuvter]

I'm hoping this initiative fails. That's all we need is an easier, more mobile and prevalent way for people to objectify the human body.

Re:Objectify

[Anonymous Coward]

We have had this in chile for years, say when you open the browser you are taken to a portal, one of the options is adults or somthing that denotes this, telefonica ( now movistar)has had this option. i dont know the other companys, since i have only used this one.

Re:Objectify

[Anonymous Coward]

Hate to break this to ya, but the human body is an object.

Telus isn't the first

[Stephen Samuel]

On Fido, I went through their picture download thingie with the $50 that I got with a new cell phone (to replace a dead one).... They also sell (soft) porn...

So how long until...

[Anonymous Coward]

So how long until we start seeing the claims that the porn make the mobile phone industry happen, and that it was the driving force behind the advances in mobile technology?

80s flashback

[edwardpickman]

ET phone porn.

and this is remarkable...

[oohshiny]

why?

I feel a name change coming on ....

[R33MSpec]

Maybe they'll change their name from Telus to Phallus?

Hong Kong is way ahead here.

[Animats]

In Hong Kong, there are virtual girlfriends for cell phones.

This thing is really insidious. The girls are high-maintenance. You have to text them frequently and buy them stuff.

Re:Hong Kong is way ahead here.

[jaraxle]

And how is this any different from a real girlfriend?

~jaraxle

The same...

[C10H14N2]

...as has applied to centuries of similar material: none. Hormonal, pubescent adolescents will seek out and obtain porn and actual sex, regardless and often in direct proportion to your attempts to prevent them from doing so. Welcome to humanity.

Can US users get some?

[popo]

..er. I mean hypothetically.

In other news, automobile accidents on rise

[goombah99]

Forget the religious wackos. Now instead of one handed cell phone using drivers were going to have people diving with their knees while they use the other hand to choke their chicken.

Re:In other news, automobile accidents on rise

[KDR_11k]

Considering the number of adult magazines sold at the average truckstop I don't think availability on cellphones is a critical factor here.

Re:In other news, automobile accidents on rise

[Annoymous Cowherd]

Could I just clarify that I'm currently a customer AND an employee of TELUS, and there is no intention of allowing the distribution of pornography to all subscribers.

Don't take me as any official voice piece, but we have clearly stated that there would be a screening process involved.

So for any that want to 'think about the children', don't worry, we already have.

Re:In other news, automobile accidents on rise

[jcgf]

Yeah those truckers, they can steer, shift through 13+ gears, talk on the cb, hold the magazine all with one hand, and strangle a hooker they picked up at a truckstop with the other.

Re:In other news, automobile accidents on rise

[Wintermute__]

Jimmy! You put down Daddy's cell phone this instant! NOW, young man! Don't you EVER touch daddy's cellphone!

Brain melt

[Quiet_Desperation]

Telus decided to introduce the service after noticing that there existed a certain 'segment of the population that is interested in that content' from review of the mobile Web browsing habits of their subscribers 'on an aggregate level.'

Marketing-speak. The gray goo of verbal communication.

I don't know what the situation is in Canada

[nexu56]

But in Australia, it comes down to legislation. I can tell you from experience that telcos in Australia fear legal action for distributing pornography. Its a grey area and completely untested as yet, and no one is game to go first.

The way it was presented to me goes thusly: even if you verify over the phone that an account holder is over 18, the PR/media fallout of a situation where little Johnny purchases some erotica from their provider, via Dad's phone, is one that has many a Telco exec waking up at night, covered in sweat.

Re:I don't know what the situation is in Canada

[Bronster]

a situation where little Johnny purchases some erotica from their provider, via Dad's phone, is one that has many a Telco exec waking up at night, covered in sweat.

Now see, they should be reporting themselves to the police immediately. Paedophiles. They should be waking up at night covered in sweat for good old-fashioned boobies like their counterparts in Canada. Much healthier.

One more proof...

[Zapotek]

...that the internet is for porn.

I'm starting to wonder if this was what Ballmer meant with this whole "squirt" thing...
Seems to me that Telus outran MS.

Beaten (just as surely as I with this post)

[kakofb]

Um Vodafone's been doing this for ages.

People are not logical

[arcite]

There is your answer. I will buy an iPhone not because it is logical, but because I want to be cool. Similarly, I will put porn on it because I'm a horny bastard. :)

Re:People are not logical

[Anonymous Coward]

Hehehehe. Your right people are not logical, or at least not all the time. I work at a large call center and have seen a few... inappropriate things, Reading, Viewing.... Doing.... A cell pone like this will just add a more private way to view porn at work

Now, just add gambling and you're sure to piss off

[kalpaha]

the american right wing wackos, who are well on their way to make online gambling illegal.

Hey, maybe they'l have some porn for kdawson....

[Anonymous Coward]

...and other "minor attracted adults".

Well well

[imsabbel]

Just take a look at richard stallman and then tell me that you really want to see open source porn...

Eh?

[Rob Simpson]

I don't use the standard port, since Azureus assigned random ones when I installed it... but I've never had any issue with reaching and staying at my max connection speed until I'm finished.

I don't get it

[Uerige]

So what's the big deal? It's not like they're selling anthrax or killing puppies.

He accepted a $200 gift card, what did he expect?

[Rob Simpson]

My internet service will cost over $40 per month for the 1.5/.5 connection when my "price protection plan" ends. I'm locked into their crappy service and they said it will cost me $240 if I choose to bail out early. Sounds like you made some poor decisions regarding your ISP. Blame yourself.

Heh, figures. Well, he might've gotten an iPod or a monitor. They offer "free" gifts if you sign up for long enough. (Not available to current subscribers, though...) Btw, I have no idea how he would have to pay $40/month... If he had a special rate for the 3.0/.65 connection it would go up to $40.95, though.

Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Why should I pay for watching people getting fucked, when I get fucked by Telus already?

Who is fruition?

[Anonymous Coward]

"make sure it never comes to fruition."

Because it is so much better to come to Pamela Anderson...

What?

[bmo]

Mom?!

--
BMO

Quiz question:

[PopeRatzo]

Why are Canadian politics like Belgian baseball?

Re:Quiz question:

[PopeRatzo]

Thank god, someone got the joke.

Misnomer

[bushwahd]

The suffix -ography refers to writing. Would that make this 'pornophony'?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

pr0n on mobile phones, eh?

[Panaqqa]

Gives a whole new meaning to the term "phone jack"

Re:free speech? kiss it goodbye.

[Anonymous Coward]

Aren't you an american? How can you comment on Canadian free speech when you live in the most misinformed country in the world. Your government controls everything you read, hear or watch. And if you speak out against your government in any way the CIA will be kicking down your door by morning. I won't even email my relatives in the US about political crap that I can see from the outside for fear of getting them in trouble.
You people have some serious problems down there and I would say porn is one of the least important.

Porn on the go

[darkhelmutis]

First there was iTunes, now there is iCandy

Oh man, don't get me started on Telus...

[Anonymous Coward]

Even though we have had enormous problems with Telus, we still have ADSL, home and cell phones with them, and I also host with them. Screwed up bills, indifferent customer service people...I think we have seen it all with Telus! There's no other company that makes me so gee-dee mad, and yet I'm bound to be a customer with them :\

Their next cash-gimmick

[sulfur_lad]

For all you folks State-side and worldwide who may not know Telus, I'm just doing you the favour of filling you in: this is just a cash-making scheme, filling in the void caused by many people like me becoming so completely fed up with their terrible customer service and illegible bills that we'd rather use tin-can phones. So we severed all ties (mobile and wired) and now live happily in Telus-free zones (e.g., like my house). The extra revenue had to come from somewhere... pun intended.

Moral discussions aside, I wouldn't be surprised if the numpties that run the company are looking into production as the next step; then your telus web-mail will have Telus-pr0n banner-ads, and the ppv offerings will only be from Telus studios. Customers will be getting it rammed down their throats, pun intended.

So that explains it!

[cascadingstylesheet]

Hormonal, pubescent adolescents will seek out and obtain porn and actual sex, regardless and often in direct proportion to your attempts to prevent them from doing so. Welcome to humanity.

Ah, that explains the Girls Gone Wild of the 1800s. I was wondering about that.

Sweet, Download porn, set phone on VIBRATE...

[mrops]

..and I am all set

progressive? no wonder, check their pricing model

[1800maxim]

I can buy a cell phone now for $500 with Telus, but with no contracts to sign.

I can also buy the same cell phone for $200 less, provided I sign agreement for 3 years. Let's say that in 3 months something happens and I am not able to live up to the agreement - I wish to cancel. Rogers, Bell, (and probably Fido) will charge you $20 per month for each remaining month on your contract up to a maximum of $200. Essentially, if you got $200 discount on your phone, you will probably pay back those $200 when you leave.

With Telus, they will charge you $20 per month for each remaining month. Period. There is no maximum. So if you cancel your 36-month contract in month 3, you have 33 months x $20 each = $660. Now tell me this is fair. Tell me this is a good reason to believe this company provides good, valuable, services to its customers, where customers are the focus. BS.

Telus is ready to screw its customers over like I haven't seen in other mobile telcos (even Bell isn't so bad). How can you agree to a contract, decide to leave, and end up paying a penalty of double or triple of what you saved?

Compare plans between different provides, you will notice that Telus' plans are among the most expensive. They were among the first to move up the hour on which evening starts. Used to be 6pm, became 7 pm, now it's 9 pm. If you want your evenings to start earlier, sure, but pay extra for that. Other companies followed suit.

I also would not be surprised if Telus was intstrumental in moving away from per-second billing to let's-round-up to the minute billing, which definitely screws you over big time. And they did it in such a sinister way that nobody noticed.

Lastly, to end my rant, they also have questionable business practices, where eventually you will be charged for some feature that you had included for free. When you phone to inquire, they will tell you that you always paid for it and it was never for free. And unless you have invoices going back 2/3/4 months ago, good luck proving anything to them.

Suppression of dissent is wrong

[paladinwannabe2]

I do think Unions are mostly money-grabbing idiots at this point in history- a good friend of mine had his company picketed because the workers there were part of a small electrical worker's union instead of the big electrical worker's union. They weren't trying to protect the interests of the workers- they were trying to protect the interests of their pockets.

On the other hand, an ISP that doesn't show web pages of strikers is as bad as AT&T not letting you call people opposed to its monopoly. That's far worse behavior than even Unions exhibit. I'm all for the power of people to organize- and if they destroy their own jobs because they're idiots, I'm not going to sympathize.

Capitalism

[Mark_MF-WN]

Once again, Canadians are showing Yankees what capitalism is really all about, that the free market should be unfettered by nonsensical rules derived from implausible fairy tales.

Yeah

[Mark_MF-WN]

Yeah, because that's how positive changes come about -- by making sure that you never, ever rock the boat.

Service Quality

[phorm]

The also spring "contracts" on unsuspecting customers, and frankly since the strikes I've noticed a significant drop in service quality (mostly in the cellular region, although I've heard horror stories about extended loss-of-service from the landline offerings as well).

Telus will happily forgo mentioning a contract when you sign up for their internet service, but they *will* tell you that you're involved in one if you try to quit... apparently it's presented in a clickthrough agreement when you first use the Telus CD or somesuch (and they'll happily ignore the fact tha tsome customers do their device registration online where the contract was not presented). If you ask to see the contract then they'll happily tell you to get a lawyer and talk to their legal dept... I would know because I've had to deal with the sodsucking buggers on this (though not for myself).

Re:free speech? kiss it goodbye.

[TheGavster]

You seem to be somewhat misinformed yourself. Observe:

"My government has no business spying on my private life. The warrantless wiretap program is a blatant violation of the constitutional checks and balances. The installation of gunshot microphones is a mere stepping stone to a program to suppress public speech."

My door: intact. But I should not need to demonstrate this; just over the weekend there was a massive rally against the government right in front of the capital building. Protesters spray-painted their messages on the steps, for heaven's sake.

This is not to say that our freedoms are not in danger. It is important that all Americans act against restriction while we still can.

Kids

[Mark_MF-WN]

Your kids can already watch porn on their cellphones (as I found out in class a few weeks ago). All Telus is doing is offering to sell pornography. The free stuff was already available. So, for that matter, were commercial porn sites, for kids that have a credit card.

The thing is, if you're too goddam fucking stupid to NOT activate the adult-content service when you sign up for your child's cell phone contract, you deserve whatever you get. Granted, most people are indeed too stupid to even read their cell-phone contract, and are definitely too stupid to NOT check the little box that enables the adult content service... but that's just how life is. The kid that eats the most marbles doesn't get to grow up and have more kids. The kid who eats the second most will grow up and give his kids a big bag of cherry-flavoured marbles...

There is no hope for the children of stupid people. Let's just accept that, and allow the rest of us have our freedom.

Most big corps deal in porn

[Anonymous Coward]

Most big corporations deal in porn already... They just make it non-obvious by operating those depts under the radar under other company names.

Why is Canada Better?

[esobofh]

I was actually going to make this into a bumper sticker:

Canada: No Bush - plenty of beaver!

A hands-free kit won't help!

[Dekortage]

As if the drivers around me aren't already distracted on their cell phones, now they're gonna watch porn?

Wait, what?

[spun]

You mean "ends with the same sound" and "starts with the same sound" don't mean the same thing in America? What a country!

Oh, and smurf rhymes with turf, not quite so much with earth or birth

Re:Coren

[Run4yourlives]

The funny thing about Michael Coren is although he's a conservative Christian, is pretty logical compared to the nuts down south.

He'll apply his beliefs to his views, but usually he makes pretty good points, and likes to debate openly with opposing views. I've never seen him ridicule his guests like the fox losers do.

Glorious and Free

[hduff]

The Canadians always seem to take a practical, business-based approach to anything that doesn't involve French. I recall when protesters got the Playboy Channel removed from the local cable service. Now one need only watch Springer, Oprah,or broadcast TV for that matter for similar content. How long will it be before the USA protests begin? I, for one, will not support another doomed invasion of an almost rational country even if would liberate Canada from Quebec.

Paying to receive dirty phone calls

[frodo527]

Dirty phone calls used to be harrassment, now they're revenue streams. What'll they think of next?

telus/bell/rogers

[Deadplant]

They are simply getting desperate to find something for which people might be willing to pay these huge fees.
My company provides webcasting services and we looked into providing live streaming video to cellphones.
Hockey games and stuff like that.
Holy fracking fees batman!
It is totally impossible to use telus/bell/rogers data services for anything usefull.
It would cost us $50-100 to stream a farking highlight reel from a hockey game. Entire games are totally out of the question.
Yes, that's $50-100 per viewer per fracking video!!!!
If you swing a deal with them you can get a video delivered for about $20 per viewer. utterly ridiculous.
It would seriously be cheaper to use puralator to send people DVDs overnight.

Somehow they think people might be willing to pay $4 for a tiny porno jpeg.

Dear phone company execs, when you are reviewing a project plan and you see "billing per KB" it is time to scrap the plan and start over.

Verizon

[Lars83]

In the US, stay tuned for Verizon's rollout of the same feature...to be called "Get-it-on-now"!


(For those of you not in the US, Verizon already has an on-demand service called "Get-it-now")

Japanese porn

[guardia]

Check out some Japanese porn... you'll get condoms (that is if you can see them past the mosaicing) and some "I love you" videos. They call porn "AV" in Japanese (short for Adult Video).

accidents increased by 90%

[Treates2]

i bet this will increase accident rates in canada by atleast 99%

Can the world get any more immoral? YES!

[nocookieforyou]

We need to stand up for what is right, and having access to pornography on a mobile will not only have issues such as children accessing their parent's phones or having their own and accessing the content without supervision, but for adults, it's one more way to access something that will poison your life and those around you and keep you stuck in the porno obsession.
Like we need more porno for selfish men who sexually objectify women and it eventually leads to abuse/rape/violence/murder.
The more you men accept all of this stuff, the less of a brain you will have and the less women will be respected. It will control you and you'll end up dying off your own farts cos you can't get out of your house away from it! Yes, there's been a case!
Women are not just here for your pleasure. Women are functional, intelligent, creative people in this thing we call society and the last thing we need is more porno access so another jerk off male can have his way with himself and disrespect every woman he then comes into contact with. It is eventual process. You may start off ok, but you will have absolutely no respect for women by the end of your sickening, selfish porno obsessed life.
How is society supposed to function if all men want is lusty sex? What fulfillment is that? Sex is a wonderful thing when 2 people are married, but bring in more factors into the equation and it is tainted and it will damage both people. Where is the sanctity and purity in marriage if there are "other women" on your husband's mind? This then leads to infidelity with another women.
Not only are there deep ramifications on how the man will view women as no more than pleasure objects, but the deep emotional abuse on the woman where she thinks she is no more than a play thing with no brains and needs breast implants and blonde hair to make her husband happy. I dont think so.
Who will be there for you when you cry? (oh yes you do! It's ok!) Who bears your child and helps raise it? Who supports you when you get fired from your job? Your wife. Not the seductive whore in the pornography photos/videos. She will only destroy your will power and turn you into a monster and will make your partner feel insignificant and will emotionaly abuse her.
All of this porno stuff needs to stop if we're to have a proper functional, society based on integrity and selflessness (yes, some people like me try to live like that).
I'm so sick of men like a lot of you(loved some of the brainless comments by the way) who are so blinded by your selfish lust that you can't even see what it is doing to your own life and your life partners.
Yes, this issue is close to my heart, and I wish men would just open their eyes and see what loving, fulfilling, supportive relationships they could have with their women if they just showed more respect for them. Women respond to how men treat them, you treat your lady right and stay true to her, and she'll be your Queen and make your life heaven.
Men just need to grow up and get some real men's balls and act with integrity and protect your women!
That's my rant for the day! Bring it on boys!

Re:Can the world get any more immoral? YES!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Women respond to how men treat them, you treat your lady right and stay true to her, and she'll be your Queen and make your life heaven."

Or she'll leave you for another (trash) guy. This, after she puts on your engagement ring a few months ago, after you buy a house together, AND have a kid together.

Woman are as flawed as men, in some ways more so (ok, maybe not, but I'm still hurting and bitter, ok?). She liked porn just as much as I did, our sex life was fine. I hope she comes back someday, but my hopes aren't that high.

Long story short, just treating a woman right isn't always enough.

And if you're reading this, Sweet Pea, I'll always love you. Bring our family back together soon.

Re:Can the world get any more immoral? YES!

[nocookieforyou]

I'm really sorry to hear that, yes it works the other way around I agree. Most women (like me) will respond well to good treatment as long as they're not too emotionally messed up themselves!
She obviously had some issues because of pornography as it made her leave you and cheat on you - instead of the other way around as my first post may have been more strongly based.
Pornography is a family killer and it doesnt matter if women like it too as it will affect them in similar and different - though all destructive - ways as it would a man.
It will make women feel devalued and basically mess with their head whether they believe that or not, and it will make their eyes wander just as much as a man's.
Pornography is disrespectful to women and drives men to seeing them as objects. Yes you loved her, yes you treated her right in all other ways, but you were not protecting her heart and her soul when both you and her watched the pornography. She was exposed to a world of promiscuity where she no longer viewed you as her only man, when she looked at those other men, she lusted after them, just as you would have lusted after the women. This is not something that creates a stable, loving and protective relationship.
You can't possibly believe that you are being true to your partner and expect them to stay when both of you had eyes for others and encouraged this.
I'm not an expert, but in this world there are too many pain and strife filled divorces and breakups and abusive relationships that have been born from people's ignorance and lust for pornography.
I beleive that was the real cause of the issues in your relationship, just think about it. I hope she does come back to you and your child, a remorseful and changed woman, and when she does, I hope that you will not allow pornography back into your lives as it will only cause pain and destruction upon you. Good luck to you, mate.

Re:free speech? kiss it goodbye.

[twitter]

I applaud you for having no idea how the Canadian telecommunications field works. From a Canadian perspective, the idea of porn is a minor issue, and the media issue is a non-issue. It's a completely different game up here, bucko.

I don't need to know how Bell Canada operates to know that the new US Ma Bell should not be given this kind of business to monopolize.

Re:free speech? kiss it goodbye.

[jwo7777777]

Where's your stalker?