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Apple Delays Leopard to October
SuperMog2002 writes "Apple Insider has the sad news that Mac OS X Leopard has been delayed until October. Apparantly software engineers and QA had to be reassigned to the iPhone in order to get it out on time, costing Leopard its release at WWDC. For now the original press release from Apple can be found on the 'Hot News' part of their site, though Apple did not provide a permanent link to the story. 'While Leopard's features will be complete by June, the Cupertino-based company said it cannot deliver the quality release expected by its customers within that time. Apple now plans to show its developers a near final version of Leopard at the conference, give them a beta copy to take home so they can do their final testing, and ship the software in October.'"
I guess I'll be dressing up as a Leopard for Halloween this year. I sure hop Flanders it's handing out toothbrushes again.
warning: The above content may test positive for sarcasm and/or could be a failed attempt at humor and as such should be taken with a pound of salt.
Apple is teh doomed!
I was just bragging to the office MS pundit that Leopard would be out soon. Then I get Vista'd (tm) by APPLE.
Vista'd- to be up a creek without a paddle
Cool! Amazing Toys.
Saying it was delayed it slightly inaccurate since Apple has been saying Spring '07.
...that I hear coming from the direction of Redmond?
Looks like Vista will have a few more months to get its act together.
Apple making effort and does show that they are frank that they cannot deliver half baked product, on release day. So they push it back, they don't release some half baked product even though it isn't really the flagship of the company. There many people who like os x but windows is still everywhere. Still I think people don't mind wating for quality product.
Aaaaaarrrrggghhhh! I was really looking forward to it.
This means that the iPhone won't suck!
Phew! I was worried after all the hype.
Screw the iPhone... I'd rather have updated Macs and a shiny new OS.
Less pieces of shit, more big cats!
-jX
Don't you just love politics? It's like a comedy of errors.
I hope this isn't the start of the end for apple.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
I hate that Apple announces the same kind of delays Microsoft had with Vista.
I hope the iPhone is really worth it.
Maybe next time they can hire/train more developers; Apple sure can afford them financially.
A hungry bear does not dance!
Leopard's delay isn't that big a deal for most of Apple's regular users. Tiger works well enough. There isn't all that much in Leopard that I'm really looking forward to having.
I can wait comfortably for another quarter if it means that Leopard will be released as a better operating system than was Tiger when it was released initially.
The bigger concern would seem to me to be the developers who've pegged their next release on feature that are Leopard only. They're going to lose out on four months worth of income. Hopefully the new features in Leopard, especially the under-the-hood suff makes developing so much easier that it's going to be worth it for them.
In the meantime, I'll download a nightly of webkit (safari is the only real annoyance I have on my Mac) and get on with my work.
In illa quae ultra sunt
IMHO I'd rather wait for a software release to meet an organizations quality standards versus a sales or stockholders driven timeline. With this experience of having developers exposed to both the Lepoard and iPhone OS, hopefully future customers may experience well tested interfaces or communication between the two products later in October.
They'd better use this delay to implement a new Finder given how absolutely terrible the current one is.
or may i say even linux?
I think apple OS development comes along quicker than either. Or at least it seems like it to me, and I am a linux/pc user. From what i heard of Vista, microsoft just reinvented the apple like interface, and dropped any other feature that would even bare mentioning reguarding a new "operating system". (such as their new filesystem).
iPhone delays are just an excuse; the REAL reason is that Apple needs a bit more time to finish implementing their new super-secret killer OS features...
... Palladium ! ... UEFI support ! ... Monad ! ...and finally, WinFS !
Once these features are in place, Vista will pale before Apple's new code-named-Leopard OS, secret-code-named-Longhorn OS! Mwuahahaaaa!
Anyone following news of recent developer builds of Leopard could have predicted that it wasn't near being ready. No sign of the announced "top secret" features, and mile-long bug lists. Good that they're willing to take the PR hit (oops! they jabbed Microsoft about delaying Vista, didn't they?) instead of release a pile of crap in June.
Interesting that they had to pull engineers off OS X to the iPhone. Most likely, they needed to get the iPhone done in time to meet contractual requirements with Cingular, and there wasn't enough time to hire new staff and train them. It can take months to get even the brightest new hires up to speed and productive, so this is understandable. Especially when training new hires means some of your existing staff is dedicated to that instead of real work. So, in keeping with the dropping of "Computer" from their name, Apple just put the computer stuff on the backburner and took the quick route of using existing, knowledgeable engineers.
Too bad they didn't do better long range forecasting for staffing needs a year or two ago...
Wonder what this'll do to Mac sales, as many people were waiting for a Leopard release before buying? Will people still wait 6 more months, or will they buy now? Will they go PC to spite Apple for the delay?
A lot of people are going to say that this is going to cost apple sales, and I think if we'd been left in this uncertain situation it might have. But I know personally this has _removed_ a barrier to getting a new Mac. I just didn't want to get shafted when leopard came down the pipe two weeks after we bought this mac. Since that's gone, I'll be ordering one soon.
This was pretty obvious from as early as Mid-March. We knew there would be "secret features" coming, and none of them have thus far appeared in any of the betas.
.Mac integration or comparable bullshit feature that ignores the rotting elephant in the room.
Apple isn't retarded, and it is highly unlikely that they would have dumped them in the laps of developers a matter of weeks prior to the final release. That being said, I will go into nerd rage spasms if they don't fix Finder this time around and spend their efforts doing some stupid
I don't see how anyone thought past December or January that it would be ready for June.
Assuming there really are big new secret features, like Jobs promised, anyway, they would require extensive testing including all kinds of real world testing in developers' systems, new SDKs, etc. Guess what we've seen so far?
I think I'll take this opportunity to predict the demise of Apple, Inc. In fact, I hear Michael Dell is going to buy the company and give the money directly to the shareholders, or something like that....
Seriously though: Apple has made no bones about the fact that it's focusing more and more on lifestyle computing at the expense of their traditional computing product lines. This has to be one of the more extreme examples of that fact: Apple would rather ship a phone than keep their operating system schedule.
Plus, I'd guess they're not feeling too much heat from the Vista release, so why rush it? The current OS (Tiger) is, in my opinion, still way out in front in terms of features and usability.
Hi, I'm a Mac.
And I'm a PC.
<squeaky kid voice> I'm an iPhone play with me watch this oh I got a boo-boo make it better daddy let's play catch can I have some ice cream can I can I huh huh oh look a kite I wanna kite mommieee!
Steve Jobs: Damn I forgot how much attention new products need.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I wonder how much of an influencing factor in Apple's delay was due to the slow market uptake of Vista. Would Apple still have delayed the release if MS was seeing more sales in their new product? I'd like to think Apple is above that, but business is business.
No Java 6 runtime support on OS X until October... :(
I am willing to bet that the June developer release, with it's "top secret" new features will give users something to lust over for a few months while Steve Jobs talks it up in the media. Possibly giving users pause over buying their new Vista machine in favor of waiting for a new Mac.
Have you ever noticed how well this works for movies, and music for that matter? Release a movie/song to a small segment of the market (critics, private screenings, etc) in order to create some buzz... then talk about it for a few months... finally releasing it to the consumer and watch it sell like hotcakes on the day it's released. Then they will use the skewed release figures to further market it, saying it was the fastest selling OS of all time, or some bullshit like that, making everyone think that they need to have it since everyone else is getting it too.
You will constantly be thinking about how great it will be to finally get your grubby hands on this OS for months... salivating over reviews and screen shots on any number of review sites until finally you see a rack full of it at your local computer store. Where you will buy it up, take it home, and do nothing more than your doing today with your computer, but it will look prettier.
This all hinges on the idea that Leopard is truly the huge improvement that it's claimed to be... but even if it's not, Apple is a marketing machine and the average user will buy into the hype.
To summarize, Apple could release in June, and probably release a damn fine piece of software. But they want to make us wait, make us want it more, have it consume us... then we will actually think we are getting something so much better than we have today!
Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
After seeing when can be done with Linux with Xgl & compiz, and from what I've seen of doze vista, OS X is looking and feeling rather dated. Wow, Jobs adds a few minor applications and backup tools, plus multiple desktops. Big fscking deal!
I have a mac pro, plenty of processing power, and the dumbest desktop available. The shit won't even let me resize a window from anywhere other than the bottom right corner, assuming I'm even allowed to resize the poxy things.
Steve Jobs, are you listening? Your OS is VERY FSCKING DATED. Stop jerking off to iWankProduct and catch up!
Microsoft delays Vista = Microsoft sucks!
Apple Delays anything = I'm glad they're taking the time to make it better.
And clap
*Claps*
Down to a tee
Seems to me the "Leopard Delay" (as also reported by AppleInsider.com http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/04/12/appl e_delays_leopard_release_until_october.html and gizmondo.com http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/official-apple- delays-leopard-iphone-is-priority-1-251911.php) is merely a hack of Apple's site.
I took these screenshots recently:
http://home.arcor.de/gitsax/Bilder/Bildschirmfotos /Bild%203.jpg
http://home.arcor.de/gitsax/Bilder/Bildschirmfotos /Bild%204.jpg
http://home.arcor.de/gitsax/Bilder/Bildschirmfotos /Bild%205.jpg
Only one shows this "news".
Apple just can't seem to match Microsofts's superior delay history. Microsoft has already astounded the world by an amazing THREE YEAR delay in the original Vista release date and the actual delay; this impressive delay is one of the longest delays for a product that actually eventually made it out of the front door instead of dying...
And here's Apple, trying to out-do Microsoft, and the best then can do is delay Leopard for three lousy months - and technically speaking, it's not much of a delay since the original release date was "Spring 07".
I mean, come on, Apple. Surely you can break something in Leopard to force a longer delay. Microsoft wins, hands down. Apple still lags way behind MS on viruses, as well. With my Windows machine, unpatched, I have THOUSANDS of viruses that can infect my machine if I want to. Apple just doesn't give me that ability. Maybe they just don't care.
Apple really meant it when they removed "Computer" from their name. So far, they've released the AppleTV, the corresponding 802.11n base station, and are holding back OS X for the iPhone. The only computer update was the rather delayed 4 Core/Processor Mac Pro. Looks like Apple's focus is now firmly on multimedia and entertainment devices rather than computers
The new features are pretty cool, but it seems to me it needs many months of testing to get right, expecially time machine. Also, getting it all to work within processor and memory limits looks pretty hard.
Apple OSX - 1999 and still on point releases
MS Windows - 2001 for XP, now on Vista
Debian - 2002 for 3.0, now on 4.0
How about a distributed computing engine so I can use all my macs together wirelessly to render a Hollywood style movie about leapards with Final Cut Pro HD for display on my Apple TV. Then I'll sell my awesome movie on itunes and make Apple a bagillion dollars by telling all my friends about it - which will be easy with the newly improved mail.app(tm) and iphone(tm). Everyone will watch it on their ipod pico HD hooked up to their newly released 50" cinema displays.
But seriously... how about letting me share computing resources. would it kill you Apple?
Windows fans everywhere, admiring the pretty Macs in the window: "If only our biggest complaint was having to wait two and a half years instead of just two years for a new OS release."
"Sufferin' succotash."
Either they're using that as an excuse, or they've been huffing the Reality Distortion Field through used crack pipes.
I mean... sheesh. That'd be like is Microsoft delayed Windows 2000 for Microsoft Bob.
As a person who works in higher ed, I hate the fact that lots of new things are announced around the WWDC during the summer. The demand is there from the customers (professors, students), but not enough testing time. I know the world doesn't revolve around higher-ed, but its still a pain.
With a release date of October, I'll have many months to test and play around with things before rolling it out. And since we only buy computers in the July/August timeframe, I won't be taken by surprise when they come with Leopard pre-installed. Heck, they'll be at 10.5.1 or 10.5.2 by Fall 2008.
I don't believe they will loose a lot of sales because of this announcement. A lot of students are getting Macs at the back-to-school time of year specifically because of Leopard- they are getting them because of the total package and the "it just works" mentality. That's not going to change despite the delay. And for those who were going to wait, they now have to make the choice continuing until the October release or biting the bullet and getting a new computer before then.
I'm sure many are cursing up a storm because of this, but at the same time, I bet a lot of support folks like myself are breathing a sigh of relief. Besides, we now know EXACTLY when it will be released (October), not just a general esitmate (like Spring 2007). That's ALOT coming from Apple.
Apple management really likes playing this game where they reassign engineers to get 'hot' products done. They did this when Aperture was late. Then they pulled people off Leopard to fix up Intel-transition bugs. By late 2006 Leopard development was barely getting started, and then they pulled people to work on iPhone. Is it any surprise Leopard is late? Not only Leopard is late, but also iLife, iWork, etc.
Needless to say, the engineers at Apple are getting pissed at being asked to work overtime and constantly being reassigned to different projects. And with Apple stock up 10x over the last few years, many of them can afford to leave. I know several who have left. If you don't believe me, start looking at resumes of people applying for Mac development positions...
Apple management really needs to get their priorities straight. They've lost many of their best engineers recently, and if they don't get things back on track, they're not going to be able to deliver anything at all.
So I see my OS choices in the next five years as: Windows Vista, Mac's OS X, or some Linux variant.
I don't really want to do another Windows. As long as the Mac has Blizzard's support with games like WoW, I may actually be able to abandon Windows. I've tried Debian, Red Hat, Fedora, and Ubuntu. Let's just say I'm an idiot and I'm good at breaking X without knowing how to fix it. I've got a stable, backed up Linux virtual machine that I'm very happy with, and I can use that to write papers in TeX and do assignments for my uni courses; but I don't really feel comfortable with performing any kind of minor or even cosmetic surgery on Linux. I'd really like to, but after breaking each distro with minor config changes...
Anyway! The actual question!
I read in other articles and on Wiki that Leopard will run on x86 Intel style CPUs, and that this particular version you're actually allowed to run on non-Apple specific hardware. I also read that it wouldn't be running on AMD. That doesn't make sense as I thought deep down the only difference was optimizations, and even AMD gets to have those if it's old enough. MMX, SSE1&2, etc.
Can someone please clarify this? Will I be able to run Leopard on my OEM self-built AMD 64 3000+ based machine?
Apple delays OS X: "This is an excellent idea, it will ensure quality and I didn't want it now anyway. Apple is awesome!"
And apple zealots wonder why no one takes them seriously.
On the otherhand Leopard has had me excited. I have been wanting virtual desktops on OS X since it came out, the the third party implementations have all be lacking, so I am very excited about Spaces. I am also quite interested in Time Machine as I have never seen a backup system easy enough for my parents to use, and have never seen any backup system that makes it as slick and easy to find the correct revision of a backed up documents.
In addition, several of the apps I use are getting outdated as the developers no longer support Panther (including some Apple ones). And to top it all off, I'd like to get a new machine and was naturally waiting for Leopard to come out so I don't have to pay another $150 dollars in 6 months. So the delay is somewhat of a big deal to me. That said I would much rather have stable software than an early release date. That goes for anyone, not just Apple.
Good idea. Which do you recommend: Lenny or Sid?
Protoplasm. Quiet Protoplasm. I like quiet protoplasm.
Apple Inc was renamed in January from Apple Computer Inc to Apple Inc to signal Apple's migration from just a computer company to a digital lifestyle device company.
The prioritising of getting the iPhone out over getting Leopard to its loyal fan base is not only a slap in the face of Apple's computer users, but I think a mistake on their behalf.
Reason 1.
There are a heap of people out there holding off mac purchases until leopard is released. I know my old work (I just left 2 weeks ago) are holding off buying a new suit of macs until Leopard is released because they do not want to have to purchase leopard separately for every machine, then have to roll out etc. This would be disruptive. There is also a couple people at work who are holding off buying new machines for their personal use until leopard is released.
Reason 2.
iPhone will only be launched initially in the US. Leopard is released worldwide, and therefor a larger userbase to satisfy.
Remember, the press release says that the OS has been delayed to deploy the engineers on the iPhone project. So if they had not done so the iPhone would have been delayed, but Leopard would have been finished earlier. it is not about quality control on the OS for the delay. I just hope this is not a trend where the computer business lags/stagnates because of a focus on getting their lifestyle devices out the door.
Ha Ha! You use Windows!!!
I can wait comfortably for another quarter if it means that Leopard will be released as a better operating system than was Tiger when it was released initially. They managed to break a whole range of features with Tiger including Windows networking interoperability which kept me from getting on with my work until I found out what they had done to screw up Samba and how to work around it. Mind you, they did fix a lot of these bugs pretty quickly. I can't say I'm not looking forward to Leopard, the Spaces feature looks interesting and the backup engine may be a mundane feature but it will be very useful. As for Spotlight, it is the one feature of Tiger I thought I would never use but now find myself using all the time. The addition of boolean operators may not seem like a big deal but it will make Spotlight much more usable since it will enable me to drastically narrow down searches. It also appears they've made some changes to the Finder. Any improvements in that department are welcome although one hopes that one of those 'secret features' will be scrapping the damn thing altogether and replacing it with a new one. Another feature in OS.X I'd like to see replaced or at least drastically overhauled is the Preview app. For some reason whenever I have two monitors connected to my MBP and start Preview, half the app window is placed on the upper monitor. Oh... and finally... here's hoping they have managed to have Dashboard kickstart in the background right after login and not on first launch, I have a few widgets I use a lot and waiting for Dashboard to load is annoying to say the least. I shouldn't have to download a hack to do this.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
I'm personally also not too fond of the Intel switch, myself. Don't get me started on the x86 (little endian, lack of registers, CISC instruction set, etc.). However, Apple had very little choice but to switch. Besides, Intel's Pentium M and Core chips were getting very great performance for their power consumption, which is another factor. Plus, my complaints of the x86 comes from an architectural standpoint. But they do the job, and I like my Core Duo in my MacBook, thank you very much.
Once again, I have no problem with Apple branching out to consumer electronics. However, I seriously hope that Apple doesn't forget about the Macintosh platform, which is the impression that I'm starting to get. At MacWorld, there were no Mac announcements. The only hardware update that we've received since November was the new 8-core Mac Pros. Where is iWork 2007 (or even iLife 2007 for that matter)? I don't want the Mac to go the way of the old pre-Fiorina HP calculators; heavily demanded, great quality products that are no longer made (of the same quality) simply because the company wanted to rebrand itself. I've seen these trends in the technology industry before. The Mac is the heart of Apple. I know it's wrong to be attached to products, but I like my Mac a lot. It makes my job much easier, and I can't imagine having to go back to Windows, Linux, and BSD. Where will I go if something happened to my Mac and you can't get another new one? I think this is the sentiment of some of us Mac users.
iPhone had better have 100% of demand availability on release, otherwise this wouldn't be worth it. I would have thought a delay on the iPhone would be better than on Leopard.
I, for example, would have bought a Leopard Family Pack the day of release, but not an iPhone. And iLife (whose delay rumors blame on requiring Leopard.) Heck, if iLife gets delayed until October, I'll just wait until NEXT January for iLife '08, rather than buy iLife '07.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
Screw the iPhone. I already have a phone, an iPod, and a PDA. I'd rather have Leopard in June and the iPhone can come out whenever it feels like.
(Fyi, I am the anon who clapped)
:D
I use sabayon- cos its shiny. Thus I feel fully justified in laughing at everyone
I realize this has already been modded flamebait, but I just had to point out that Apple dumped IBM, not the other way around. I challenge anyone to cite a credible source that says otherwise. IBM wouldn't deliver the kind of chips Apple wanted (G5 chips usable in mobile applications) without Apple forking over a substantial amount of money to help IBM finish the development cycle. That's assuming IBM ever made much headway on that effort to begin with.
(In fairness to IBM, they couldn't justify making the G5 a high priority and soak up all the R&D costs to make it low-power and fit within a laptop-appropriate thermal envelope. They couldn't justify that because the volume of systems that Apple ships is simply not large enough for IBM.)
Also, while it's true that Apple shopped around to both AMD and Intel, they never sourced processors from AMD, so it's a bit misleading to say that they ran "to [...] AMD, and then finally Intel."
As for delaying the OS because of the iPhone, I don't see that as a major problem. OS X 10.4 is still competitive with Windows, even Vista. There's no reason to rush Leopard (10.5) to market, and the users wouldn't stand for a rushed OS product since, you know, they tend to rely on the stability of their Macs for productivity and so forth. The company has finite engineering and QA resources, and since they pre-announced the iPhone, the clock is ticking on that product. They don't dare slip the iPhone schedule or the competition will eat their lunch, and the iPhone will be stillborn. The consequences of this logic should be obvious.
As a general rule, the buying public is more tolerant of software delays than hardware delays.
of course, so is sun.
i mean, they went from 4.3 to 1.0 to 2.0-2.6 then suddenly they were on 7! (er, maybe 2.7 or 5.7 depending on which part of the operating system you look at).
operating system versions are silly -- just look at the linux kernel, 2.6, just where it should be.
What if I want something that works?
> but I just had to point out that Apple dumped IBM, not the other way around.
The IBM exec who appeared on stage with Jobs at the original G5 unveiling keynote gave an interview where he made it clear that:
1) Apple was a nightmare to work with
2) Apple consisted of only 4 percent of IBM chip sales but a huge percentage of hassle compared to other customers
3) The decision to dump Apple was made once IBM landed the supply contracts for Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft's consoles.
Once IBM let Apple know they were being dumped:
1) Apple frantically ran to PASemi but they were not interested in working with Apple and rejected their offer to become the new supplier
2) Apple is only rumored to have talked with AMD
3) Apple finally turned to Intel as their 'first choice'
Jobs standing up on stage at a WWDC and spinning getting dumped by IBM doesn't change reality. No matter much the Apple faithful want to believe they weren't dumped.
But, hey, how bout those Intel SPEC scores! Gotta love that marketing compiler of theirs!
...a whole four months late. That will seem like a hiccup in a year from now.
The pursuit of absolute tolerance leads to the most rigorous and ludicrous intolerance. - REX MURPHY
When I heard that MSFT was going to release Vista with features missing, I was urging them to delay it further rather than releasing an incomplete product.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
According to the Leopard page on the Apple site, it says a release date of October 2007. http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/
My wallet for one is happier with the delay. Especially since many other things, like iLife and iWork, will probably be updated around the same time.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's obviusly the marketing guys who's delaying it. They just want to release it 10/5.
Just a thought here, but considering how crazy Mac zealots tend to get around events like WWDC and MacWorld (particularly when a popular rumor goes bust), could it be that Apple is simply using the iPhone excuse to misdirect our attention away from Mac OS 10.5's progress? Or, on the other hand, could it be that Apple intentionally kept the 10.5 hype in play just long enough to ensure they didn't face any last-minute surprises with the iPhone... using 10.5 as a sort of "consolation prize" to would-be early iPhone adopters?
In either case, it's an interesting tactic that protects them from post-event community backlash on both fronts.
8==8 Bones 8==8
I have no idea which of you is right, but I can tell you who is "foaming at the mouth". Do you have a mirror handy?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
So many posts are modded "Informative" when they really should be modded "Inciteful"
10.5 is a fairly incremental release for apple, with not a lot of major features. Keep in mind that in the time it took vista to ship, something like 4 or 5 releases came out from apple. This is because the difference between 10.2 and 10.3 is only as big as you'd expand from a second point release, a few new cool features that people will pay for, and not much else.
"You've got a chart filling a whole wall with interlocking pathways
and reactions to shock and the researcher says "If I can just control
this one molecule/enzyme/compound I'll stop the whole negative
physiologic cascade of post haemorrhagic shock." Yeah, right."
I totally forgot about Sun, but I remember when a bunch of Linux distros were jumping numbers to compete on version numbers. We're more advanced than Linux X because we have a bigger number. I don't agree about the kernel number though because of that damn experimental branch. Microsoft decided to sidestep this whole mess back in 95 then sidestep the year issue by using names. Since Microsoft has a slow release schedule random names work fine, but an organization with a quicker schedule should use an alphabetical naming convention like Ubuntu does. That way the average person knows which version is newer.
I want Leopard, I really do, but honestly Tiger is a great OS and I can live a few months more with it.
The IPhone however, we need to be great.
For those of you that think iPods, AppleTVs, and iPhones are supplanting the Mac for Apple, you clearly weren't listening to Jobs from the early days of his return.
He said that digital lifestyle was the future and the Mac was the centre of that.
Every time someone buys one of these digital lifestyle devices and find they work better on the Mac, they will consider a Mac for their next computer.
Back in the 90s Microsoft effectively killed the Mac in enterprise by releasing good Windows Office and bad Mac Office.
Digital lifestyle is Apple's MS Office.
Don't sweat it - the Mac stays.
"Apple didn't piss off IBM. IBM wasn't able to keep up with its schedule for PowerPC G5 chips (we were promised 3.0GHz PowerPC G5 chips by 2004, but to this day, they never materialized and the fastest the G5 went was 2.7GHz)."
:) I am staring to my Quad G5 now and it really needs some imagination.
IBM "wasn't able to keep" is wrong, IBM didn't want to keep their promise. They sold their only remaining end user business to Chinese.
They really don't want the stupid gamer FPS races or stuff like that. For that, there is Cell processor. Only way to impress IBM on end user chips is: Order 100M of them. They have totally focused on enterprise/services/mainframe software etc. now. For that segment , you probably know the Power6 is shipping with sort of maniacal 5.6 Ghz speeds and comical performance/watt ratios.
Mhz was a nice excuse for Steve Jobs but even that time, Mhz thing was already over.
In fact I always got confused how come people actually could have imagined PPC970 on laptop
That vista was YEARS late and didn't deliver the promised 3 pillars.
OS X release is going to be a few months late. When it is years late, then you can bitch about the double standard with some merit.
Yes, I am sure there would still be apologists even if it was 9 years late, but overall I think a few month delay in on OS release is no big deal, not matter who it comes from.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Maybe they'll have a chance to integrate a way to boot from a ZFS partition, so some of us could go all-ZFS. Delays don't have to be all bad.
One of the things that make gadgets desirable is scarcity, think how much coverage Nintendo has gotten by not being able to keep up with demand. If every story you see is how no one can get an iphone it makes the iphone that much more desirable and means when you see one you'll buy it. Apple is really good at that game..
Linux is the future.
Setting aside the question of why you're believing one company's execs over another, how does your sequence of events mesh with the fact that Apple had been developing OSX for Intel for years? You're making it sound like Apple was surprised about the switch, when in reality it's clear that they were prepared to do so at any time.
You have a point in a sense, that IBM chose not to develop a chip that could compete with Intel's current offerings, but that's as far as it goes. IBM would be quite happy to sell Apple Cell processors today, if Apple were interested in purchasing them.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
Same kind of delays as Vista??? What inverse Kool Aide have YOU been drinking? A. they haven't cut features. B. ... it's in the SAME YEAR as their stated release date.... who in God's name would call that a "Vista like" delay?
That's like calling a redlight a Duke Nukem like delay...
exactly, but remember IBM was not exactly part of Freescale the Motorola/Apple/IBM venture. IBM was shipping some cool Power5 stuff a full generation ahead of Apple's G5 stuff, but simply didn't want to share with Apple's part of the business. IBM was spending time developing the 3.2 GHZ multicore for Microsoft or the Cell for Sony. It's sad because it pretty much means IBM's server processors will wither away... I'm an iSeries fan, but without some low end Power PC Mac hardware to practice on, they'd have never got Linux for free for big iron POWER5 processors. Xbox and PS3 don't count because those guys don't want their hardware cracked in a manner useful to continuing Linux development.. yellow dog makes a product, but reliance on dev kits from Sony means it will never be community driven. We lost Alpha when DEC went under, we lost MIPS as a serious player when SGI slowed down.. ARM is still viable simply because it's cheap, not to mention the half a dozen other "hobby" CPUs out there. IBM could have had the market sown up to make a comeback on the home desktop... the Java/Power combo on Macs and consoles and Servers would have been a tough nut for even Intel to crack. But they threw it away for a quick buck from some of the most capricious and ignoble companies out there that regularly screw their "business partners" over.
Sheesh... that's like saying "Microsoft is still shipping Windows" like it hasn't changed as much over time as OS X. As an earlier poster said, "10" is the operating system and the number after the point is a major release version. I'd equate the update of 10.0 -> 10.1 with Win3.1 -> Win95, 10.2 would be Windows 98, 10.3 would be XP (just Win2K in a colorful clown suit) and the two year old 10.4 would be Vista. It only took 6 years for Apple to best 12 years of Microsoft.
Microsoft won't have an answer to 10.5 for several more years.
Most of the stuff on
Anyone? Anyone?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The iPhone is about $350 too much to be a killer product, even if it was a killer product otherwise. And I don't see it being a killer product to begin with. Touch screens on phones suck dirty swamp water through clogged pores.
AppleTV is priced to sell a lot of units, but there's a hidden cost to it - most people will need to buy a new TV for it. It needs to work well on regular screens without a hack to really take off.
Monad is already released. It is called Windows Power Shell.
That's the first thing I thought when I read the news earlier this evening. While I'm not all that concerned with waiting a few more months, it does show the shift in Apple's priorities as of late.
*** For a better tommorow, change your life today ***
It's as if millions of users cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.
Pity Babbage's customers. He delayed the Difference Engine to get the Analytical Engine out, and it never shipped!
On the really Big Iron, IBM doesn't care either, because they have AIX. Yes those machines will run Linux, but they'll run other, more tightly-controlled, highly-optimized, technologies as well. It's all scale, and at the low end, Intel/AMD has the scale. At the higher-end, then Power + proprietary OS + services becomes competitive. Home desktop is uninteresting because the margins are too thin, product cycles short, and the after-market services non-existant.
The other side is that they still have low-end, 1-4 core Linux-compatible systems, which clock in starting at $3K each. Most of these compete nicely against Itanium or late Alpha systems, and outpace Opterons. In the HPC arena, nothing else has the floating-point chops except the IA-64, and it's not clear that Intel/HP have the guts to push it hard enough to compete. The Power systems are not going to wither away, especially as they gain an increasing foothold in High-performance systems, as well as being the core of IBM's Z-series main-frames and smaller systems. IBM has decided on the customer size it wants to deal with, and unsurprisingly, that size is large, with margins. They're returning to their roots. You'll probably see Sparc and IA-64 dropped long before Power is.
the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
"borrowed QA and software engineering resources from the Mac OSX team".... uhh... that violates one of Joel on Software's rules. You don't add more people to a project which is in danger, it just adds to the problems. Beware 1st gen iPhone buyers.
I'm kind of annoyed you have to shell out over $1000 for a developer CD just to get XCode3 running. Why not just allow Leopard pre-orders to ADC online members? Put in a CAPTCHA that makes you write a simple Java function if they don't want the general public buying it yet ;)
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
Apple's fiscal year starts in october..
iPhone's are expected to be the new hotness in summer months, and will potentially carry them in to fall/winter..
then right as the new fiscal year begins, another product launch of a (highly?) anticipated product hits the shelves.. new OS, and more than likely new machines (speed bumps, or a new line, im guessing a 10-12" macbook, flash based, etc. etc., im sure you've seen the rumor sites) which will then be the healthy spike for the beginning of the year. if you drop it all in june, whats to look foward to? a 2.2GHz macbook?
thats what i think the real reason is.
dreemkill.
I'm sorry, is Digg down for maintenance?
Your abuse of the English language shows that chances are YOU are closer to eight than the poster you're attempting to insult.
And work on that spelling, champ. You'll be able to spell "about" in no time!
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
"You've got a chart filling a whole wall with interlocking pathways
and reactions to shock and the researcher says "If I can just control
this one molecule/enzyme/compound I'll stop the whole negative
physiologic cascade of post haemorrhagic shock." Yeah, right."
Then you'd already be using windows.
Y'know, if I were trying to pass off my personal recollection of events as a "credible source" (as in "challenge anyone to cite a credible source that says otherwise", in the parent post), I certainly wouldn't have posted as an Anonymous Coward. I might have, oh I don't know, cited a transcript of the speech I'm quoting, maybe put a name to this mysterious IBMer, a date to the keynote, a place to the stage. Just because you know someone who knows someone who's brother's younger sister's boyfriend overheard some people who were walking near the building where the conference may or may not have been taking place, doesn't make it true.
Not that it really matters a rat's arse who dumped who. Its as if Slashdotters somehow believe there is an objective reality when it comes to corporate politics.
At least Moto hasn't been dragged into this thread yet. Er, oops.
Go back to OSNews you stupid bitch.
Explain to me why exactly IBM was still supplying Apple with chips up until the release of the Mac Pro, over a year after the Intel announcement, if Apple was "dumped" as a customer? When you dump a customer, you dump them, you don't tell them you're going to dump them and then wait a couple years to do so. That fact right there shows how illogical your argument is.
Oh, and you're the one dishing out insults instead of arguing like a grown-up, so who is "frothing at the mouth"? Pot, meet kettle.
Nice try. Even OS 9 supports two-button mice, and Apple has been shipping 4 button mice with 360 scrolling for quite a while now. If you're going to troll, at least make it entertaining. Thanks.
Microsh*t delayed Vista for more than 2 YEARS - this is a 3 month delay. Get over yourself, Ballmer Bois.
Fine with me. I'm sick of software getting released early with bugs. I've alpha tested software that's more stable than a certain OS that's came out lately. (cough.. Vista) And a personal plug towards APC, their software blows on OS X, hell apcupsd works fine.
Life was hell, then I discovered Linux...
Maybe not on the desktop side of things, but the G4 which was the only suitable PPC chip for laptops was SLOW! There is simply no comparison between a Core 2 Duo and a G4. The G4 isn't just beat on MHz, but also on number of cores, overall speed, BUS speed (the G4 maxed out at 167 MHz if I'm not mistaken) and numerous other things. Before the switch I wasn't interested in Apple laptops for this reason. Apple's explosive growth in laptops in the marketplace pretty much confirms this.
ooo....how can that be...will all MS bashers now pee in their pants...?
Keep up the good work.
But lets face facts. Discerning users never used MacOS prior to OSX. It sucked worse then Windows 3.0 in every way.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
They should try to use a UNIX system...oh, wait.
Less than 6 months after I finally "make the switch" to a Mac I have encountered a destroyed hard drive on a nearly new Mac Book Pro as well as a destroyed ipod. looks like I waited a little too long to switch since apple now only cares about disposable hardware
Funny, the first computer I bought was a used Mac SE30 I got in 1992 and I didn't have a hardware problem with it until the floppy drive died in 2000. Well it wasn't expandable but that's not some much a hardware problem really but a design problem. On the other hand I've bought two brand new PCs, a Gateway in 1997 and an HP PC in 2000. Both the motherboard and the hdd died in the first year on both. Between this and MS's policy of treating buyers of Windows as criminals my next computer will be a Macbook Pro.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Witness the availability, now, of MacBooks with glossy screens instead of matte.
Do you work much in graphics? The new glossy screens for Macnbooks are great for graphics work. The problem with them though is glare, you don't want the sun to shine on the screen from behind you when viewing one. I'd rather have to put up with this when working on editing photos, it's relatively easy to avoid glare.
FalconShould there be a Law?
OS 10 was still more interesting. And, the future was most certainly brighter than the color NeXTs
Considering I don't really see any comments like the ones you give as examples, I would think perhaps YOU are the zealot.
Apple doesn't have to do anything for Microsoft to look bad with Vista. Microsoft is doing a great job of making themselves look bad all on their own. XP was released in 2001. Since then, Apple's released 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4... and 10.4 is already technically superior to Vista, XP, and every other OS that's come out of Redmond. Microsoft delayed Vista numerous times over a span of something like FOUR YEARS, and delivered a stillborn, feature-gutted, annoying, buggy turd that they have to force people to buy by withdrawing XP off the market. How's Apple need to do anything to make Microsoft look bad?
OK, first, Microsoft already has the lead... in marketshare, if not in technical merit. Microsoft isn't worried about whether Vista will allow them to take the lead, they're worried about if Vista will allow them to continue to keep a stranglehold on the commodity x86 desktop OS market. Unfortunately, Apple's not competing against Microsoft directly. Apple insists on allowing their OS to run only on Apple hardware. If you don't have Apple hardware, your choices are Microsoft, or Linux/BSD, (discounting something more obscure and perpetually incomplete, like BeOS or ReactOS). If you have Apple hardware, your choice expands slightly to include the above + OS X, and you'd be pretty silly to buy Apple hardware and not run OS X on it.
Apple marketing loves to make digs at Microsoft because the only difference at this point other than chassis veneer is the operating system, but really Apple competes with other OEMs who sell complete systems, ie hardware with a preinstalled OS -- Dell, HP, etc., not really against Microsoft. It's just that the only basis these days for Apple's differentiation with the Wintel OEMs is what OS the hardware comes bundled with. So while it looks like Apple and Microsoft compete against each other, it's more like they compete in parallel markets -- like track and field runners keeping to separate lanes on a track, not like boxers going head to head beating on each other. But in any event, the current release of OS X already beats the pants off of Windows on technical merits.
Leopard failing to release in 1Q07 doesn't make me any more or less likely to wipe Tiger from my Apple hardware so I can switch to Vista, and it doesn't make me any more likely to go out and buy Leopard to install on my HP laptop. If I buy new hardware from an OEM vendor this year, my choice is likely to be between buying Apple/OS X and building a whitebox and running Ubuntu, as I simply won't consider buying a Vista system at this time, if ever.
However, I seriously hope that Apple doesn't forget about the Macintosh platform, which is the impression that I'm starting to get. At MacWorld, there were no Mac announcements.
Well, the thing is, iPhone and AppleTV do both run OS X. And who do you get to develop OS X for these platforms but OS X developers? It's not a question of abandoning the Mac platform, it's a question of expanding the OS X installation base to encompass appliances and smartphones as well as traditional desktop systems and servers.
The 8-core Mac Pro is stupendous -- you can't even run XP on an 8-core system, period -- you'd need Windows Server Enterprise Edition for that. OS X runs happily on 8 cores without any special uber-expensive edition license... as long as those 8 cores reside in hardware that came from Cupertino, of course.
The other product lines are all running Core 2 Duos at speeds which haven't changed much because clock speeds have stagnated around 3GHz for the last 3 years. So what's there to complain about? What do you envision going into the next revs for the iMac, Mini, and MacBooks that's ready go to today and anything more than a CPU speed stepping right now?
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Testing a new product extensively, not releasing it until its ready...
Sounds like MS should take a page out of Apple's book, at least what they haven't swiped already.
...the fastest the G5 went was 2.7GHz
Shucks, that's faster than my C2D iMac at 2.16GHz. There must be a Megahertz myth. You know, one where Intel chips are actually faster than PPC chips at the same speed.
Of course I have no idea why I'm responding to someone who wants an RPN calculator from Apple.
Mac Office was - and IS - always ahead of the Windows version. Mac Office was - and is - feature-complete and (in my exprience) full compatible with its most recent Mac equivalent. For f*cks SAKE, it was released on the Mac FIRST. Before Windows ever shipped.
.tla. So even IF a Mac user was smart enough to format a floppy for Windows (or worse, pony up the cash for a DAVE license), they still had to manually pin a .doc onto their Mac Office document for the windows version to read it. I've gone through Hand-hold The Cognitively Impaired User HELL on this point alone at least a dozen times before OS X hit. Combine that with the fact that you can buy/build a basic Data Entry Box that'll run Windows and Excel for half the price of a Mac that'll do the same thing (NOW - more like 4-8x the price back in the day), and you can see where this is going.
.doc I've ever thrown at it.
What killed the Mac in enterprise is interoperability. Mac Office only "sucked" in that respect because it followed MacOS developer guidelines - filetype and creator code in the resource fork, no
Office suite interoperability was hindered more by adherence to platform APIs than anything else - it wasn't until OS X that Apple said "f*ck it, let's ADAPT" and went to great lengths to make interoperating with Windows as much of a non-issue as possible.
The OMFGOFFICE "problem" (which is really one of user education - yourself emphatically included) aside, I'm tickled pink that TextEdit (the Mac equivalent of notepad) can read every
I use the search dialogue to scan pages in safari too often to count, and the new cmd+f that was demonstrated.. which actually greys out everything but the words youre looking for, would save me a lot of time, frustration, and eye strain when dealing with the lovely wall-o-text so many people like to clobber you with on thier websites.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
> There are a heap of people out there holding off mac purchases until leopard is released.
... lots of people right now with both an Intel Mac and a house full of Windows and Windows software.
That may be true, however Mac sales are the best they have ever been. There may be a case for delaying Leopard just simply to avoid rocking the boat.
In the same way that the first year of Mac OS X was all about Unix people, the first year of Intel Macs seems to be all "Intel people". More than 50% of Macs sold at the Apple Store for the past year were to people who had never bought a Mac. That is why there is such a buzz about Windows-on-Mac and Parallels and Fusion
"If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it's worth - and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago." (Fortune, 1996-02-19) - http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Steven_Jobs
That's exactly what happens at the moment. I think it's sad, nevertheless, you can't say Mr. Jobs doesn't keep his promises. The iPhone, iPod, and Apple TV are obviously the next great things.
Where on earth do you get those numbers ?
An ADC select membership gives you 1 year's membership and that includes all Leopard builds (client and server). Sure, you have to download it, but I can't see that accounting for the other $500.
I disagree with both of you. His MacBook will benefit from the extended register range in AMD64 (over x86) and his software should be a bit smoother for that.
How are the iPhone and AppleTV not computers? They even run OS X.
I'm using windows. Both Linux and Macs have windows. Oh, you mean Windows! Windows works? Since when? I must have missed the memo ;-)
I see our resident 'switcheur' troll is absent today. Why is that, I wonder ? It must be the beautiful weather - I bet he's out on the beach with his beautiful friends.
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
if they considered a dual-core G5 design.
+++ATH0
Where is all this well-documented?
+++ATH0
I agree with you on almost all points. I'd just like to add a few details concerning the Apple/IBM situation.
From what I've understood, Apple wasn't an insanely great customer to IBM chip division and adopted a non-commitment policy. For instance, IBM had plans of a low-wattage version of the G5 for laptops but Apple wouldn't make a big initial order - that would have justified investment from IBM - even if this chip would have been a no-brainer for PowerBooks. They would just order something like a 10,000 sample. As Apple was IBM's main customer for this branch of PowerPC chips, it was pissing them off and they did only a half-baked job on the development of such a chip, as there was no proved marked outside of Apple for it. After the renewal of the vows that the tailor-made for Apple G5 chip was, they couldn't agree on a long-term common strategy.
Besides, development costs for chips still increase exponentially, even for specific versions of existing chips. Apple could have gotten a good G5 chip to put inside PowerBooks but they had no long-term guaranties that IBM could bring a competitive G6 or G7 series in time. The 3 GHz G5 failure (a promise originally made by IBM) proves they had legitimate reasons to doubt. IBM was certainly a more able chipmaker than Motorola/Freescale but the situation could have turned into another G4 fiasco, which had cost Apple hundreds of millions in delayed sales or switch to more powerful Windows PCs. Even if Apple sold twice as many computers as they did, and adopted a more cooperative attitude towards IBM, they might not have gotten much more competitive chips from them in due time, especially if costs for the next generation increase twofold.
Apple was indeed very lucky in switching to Intel chips at the right time, when the iPod cash cow was in full effect, Leopard was greeted favorably on its own terms and Intel beat its own development estimations for the Core series. It even took place in the middle of a slowdown in the industry caused by the Vista delays. The switch was caused by a reasonable estimation of the chip industry but the timing was mostly luck. The bastards...
Get them to support Terminal on the iPhone, and then type dc followed by "return". :-) Or, if you don't care whether it's a handheld calculator, just do that on your Mac.
them a beta copy to take home so they can do their final testing
A beta copy to do final testing?
(That sort of reminds me of those trolls who insisted that beta versions of Vista were out there long enough for nVidia to release compatible drivers as soon as Vista goes gold.)
I have direct experience with writing x86-64 code on osx, and i can tell you the compilers (icc and gcc) seem to visibly sigh with relief when handed all those extra registers. My experience has been with SSE2 code. In my case, 30% improvement, just by switching to x86-64. My loops were definately stalling due to register pressure / swaps. Tight loops, highly optimized. Probably see the same thing in non SIMD code, but you're probably only going to see it tight loops.
Allowing for a romp in speculation with the assumption that Leopard contains a great many changes and outright overhauls (not just in frameworks but for end-users concerns as well), then it is possible Apple has “bitten off more than they can chew.” As Microsoft made a similar attempt over the past six years, we might now call this the “Vista Effect”.
Solid and consistent software releases tend to be incremental, adopting smaller (read: less significant) changes that require less vetting to be made reliable and considered trustworthy. Apple may be attempting a moon-shot with Leopard and could simply lack the resources—iPhone or no iPhone—to make it possible.
For this reason, I believe all the complaints about Apple dropping the “Computer” and focusing on phones and set top boxes are empty and irrelevant. This could all just come down to the misguided, albeit noble goal of trying to do too much too fast. I think it is also likely Apple wanted to take a longer crack at Leopard and expected to do this from the outset. They have such clout with the people who enjoy their products (myself included) that nearly any blunder will be forgiven once new releases roll out and credit cards get swiped.
Why bother.
AMD64 is a processor architecture like i386, mips, alpha and powerpc. 'i386' is Intel's 32-bit x86 architecture; AMD created the 64-bit x86 architecture in the Opteron and Athlon64, which has been adopted as an industry standard called AMD64, with Intel making compatible chips. They say that their AMD64-compatible chips have EM64T, which stands for Extended Memory 64-bit Technology. As a name, 'EM64T' overlooks the inclusion of extra programming registers in the CPU which rectify a lot of the legacy issues of i386. Your Core 2 Duo has EM64T capability.
Ubuntu is your best bet in that case. But if you want something that works, why would you be looking at Windows or Mac OS X?
As a software engineer, I am looking at this news as bad for third party software vendors trying to support the Mac marketplace. However exciting the release of a new phone is, the new phone is a product for Apple, that is a closed architecture. There will not be third party software for the phone in the near future. Independent software vendors writing software for the Macintosh platform have been counting on the June release of Leopart as the timeframe for the next wave of Mac software. Companies that are especially intent on the release date purchased membership in Apple's advanced leopard availability club which was not cheap. They did this to help assure their timely release of their software. I personally was waiting for the Leopard release in June to pick up a Mac Pro 8-core system for Leopard development. Waiting around for a few extra months for the new operating system impacts a lot of people who already have invested in the market opportunity of the Leopard release. Selling computers and the operating system are the main business of Apple. Putting their phone needs before their computer user's needs is selfish, IMHO. I think this decision was a big mistake.
1) Why on earth would anyone delay purchase of an Apple machine until the new OS version comes out? There is no large hardware dependency as there is with Vista. I doubt it is the cost as a new Mac OS variant is not much more than $100. Mac OS X upgrades are notoriously simple to install. So why would this delay of hardware purchase make any sense?
2) Perhaps there is a bit more meat to Leopard than you think making it more than worth the wait regardless of iPhone. The company has other ideas about priorities than you do. Time will tell if it was the right choice. But I doubt that delaying Leopard a few months is make or break for Apple. Apple is on a roll.
Digital lifestyle is not just stylish new toys. It is the fuller integration of computation in our lives to increase not just our enjoyment but the richness, depth and reach of all that we do. I don't think it is reasonable to contrast this as less important and more frivolous than revving the OS. For Apple as a company I think that failing to deliver a product that has generated huge press as iPhone has would be much more of a blow than postponing the next OS release by a few months. If both could not be solidly completed as per the original schedule then slipping Leopard was obviously the right call.
Mac users are no worse than Windows users. I say this as someone who just yesterday had to explain to a supposed MCSE how to click and drag to select a group of items on his XP desktop.
No, I'm not bullshitting, lying, or exaggerating. I'm also not leaving out any extenuating details. The guy is really that dumb, and half of our users are as bad or worse. In my experience a "normal" computer user, PC or Mac, refers to their computer as either "the hard drive" or "the box part", and thinks that if you replace their monitor they'll lose all of their desktop icons.
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
It is the same price as a $299 smart phone plus $199 iPod nano.
For less than that I can get a brand new unlocked Treo or Pocket PC smart phone with a real keypad I can use with any GSM carrier. I can get 4GB of flash for about $50.
The service will also be cheaper than other phones because there is no hardware discount as with other phones.
Outside the US that's true, but it's not going to be available outside the US. Inside the US, well, lock-in is the name of the game. If you get an iPhone you're locked to one carrier, you've got no leverage to work for discounts.
The thing that people keep skipping over is the Web browser.
This might sound strange from me, given how much I love to trash Microsoft, but Pocket Internet Explorer is a killer application. It's a well designed handheld browser, and the biggest difference between it and the desktop IE is that it works better with good CSS-compliant websites and doesn't use Microsoft's "Typhoid Mary" security model.
I haven't used a recent handheld version of Opera, but it's another option.
To get that kind of Web browsing you have to go to a MacBook at $1100.
I've got a Macbook Pro. Safari doesn't thrill me... I use Camino.
But if that's what flips your switches, Nokia uses Webkit too.
The biggest thing is the software, though.
Yep, either Windows CE or Palm OS are years ahead of the iPhone here. Even Nokia's oldschool Symbian phones have a decent software ecosystem.
And there's also a robust accessory ecosystem for them, like there is for the iPod.
Running OS X? It's running a Darwin-based OS that's locked so you can't add software to it. If you want a phone where you have to depend on a single vendor for your software you can get one a LOT cheaper than an iPhone. Hell I think it's kind of cheating to even call it a smartphone until they fix that.
Everybody needs a new TV.
*snort*
If you don't mind paying twice as much for less phone, you're not even in the market I'm talking about.
These are "DVD era" video outputs, and they work on any TV that has component inputs, which is most everything from the 21st century.
So long as it's widescreen. Most non-digital TVs in the US aren't.
To all the Apple users who can't wait to spend $150 for a 0.1 level upgrade to your operating system: I feel your pain. Really, I do.
If it will make you feel better, send the money to me instead. I promise to spend it as wastefully as possible - because I care.
I have to defend a fellow RPN user :)
I think you are a little late in the "megahertz myth" discussion, which was going on several years ago. Intel jumped sides with the Pentium M mobile processors and has since followed suit with the Core series. The megahertz myth debate was won by the Apple/AMD crowd, while the Pentium 4 approach has been abandoned... so of course the newest processors from Intel are more cycle-efficient. Beyond that, they have a faster bus.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Why not?
What's wrong with little endian? Aside from the fact that network-byte-order is big endian, I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, little endian has an advantage, at least in theory: arbitrary sized arithmetic. You could always add two numbers together, a byte at a time, check the carry flag, and then progress to the next byte, for *any* size number. This would allow trivial addition of multi-gigabyte numbers in very little assembly.
Lack of registers is largely rectified in AMD64/ie32e, in which 16 GP registers exist. Sure, it's not the 32 registers of PPC (or the 128 of Itanium), but it's sufficient for most code. It really doesn't matter anyway, since the CPUs keep track of dozens of registers internally as part of the internal register renaming system...
CISC? You must be kidding. Sure, the instruction set is CISC, but the internals of x86 CPUs have been RISC-like since the Pentium, with a hardware instruction decoder that converts legacy x86 instructions into internal RISC-like instructions. It's largely a non-issue today. (Yes, the hardware decoder takes up more die space, but it's a fixed size, and a constantly shrinking amount of die space as the dies keep getting bigger with Moore's law.) Plus, CISC acts as a sort of compression scheme, so that CISC programs are smaller than the equivalent RISC programs, resulting in lower memory pressure when loading/executing the code -- all good things when memory keeps getting slower and slower relative to the CPU.
There's really nothing fundamentally wrong with x86. If there were, it wouldn't be used as widely as it is (because if it were fundamental it couldn't be easily fixed).
The iPhone is probably running a version of Leopard, as effective use of its 160-dpi screen probably needs the resolution independent display technology from Leopard. Apple's strategy of using Mac OS X on their appliances like the Apple TV, and on the iPhone, as well as on their computers will serve them very well over the next decade as computing devices evolve. I'm actually quite excited by the likely evolution of the Macintosh that will be made possible by the development of the iPhone. This minor bump in the road doesn't represent anything more significant. The iPhone isn't a grand conspiracy to abandon the Macintosh platform, it's the first installment of the future of really truly remarkable computing devices. The iPhone is the computer.
What is this "advanced availability club"? Are you referring to ADC? Not really all that expensive. ADC memberships. In any case, your timing arguments are just silly. If you were planning to wait until June (e.g. for the final Leopard release) to "develop for Leopard" then Leopard timing obviously isn't critical to your plans, just just wait until October to buy your 8 core machine. Maybe RAM prices will come down a bit by then even and you'll come out ahead.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
It's very likely that resolution independent display technology from Leopard is required to take full advantage of the iPhone's 160 dpi display. This is the key feature that discerning technology analysts look at when speculating on which vesion of Mac OS X runs on the iPhone. Has anybody done a uname on the Apple TV yet? What kernel is that running?
Leopard Technology Series for Developers .
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Microsoft delays Vista: "Typical crappy Microsoft! They can't even release their OS on time! Ha ha!"
Apple delays OS X: "This is an excellent idea, it will ensure quality and I didn't want it now anyway. Apple is awesome!"
And apple zealots wonder why no one takes them seriously.
Second comment I've read like this, again posted as AC. Now either you're intelligent enough to know how ridiculous the statement is and are just being antagonistic, or you actually believe it. Either way, man up and attach your name to it. There's a reason they call it "Anonymous Coward" as opposed to just "Anonymous".
Ignore anything I said above, I actually agree with everything you believe - mod accordingly.
Wait, this is interesting. If I go buy a Mac Mini, wipe the hard drive, and install Windows, can I get a rebate for my unused OS X license?
And if not, how is this different from Linux users seeking rebates for the OEM Windows they don't use on their new PCs from DELL et al?
Point would be to buy the Mac now, sell back the Tiger license, and run Win or Lin until Leopard is released.
I'm surprised how difficult it seems to be for people to grok this, but the iPhone a computer. By some measures it will probably be the best Macintosh ever made. It's blazing the trail to the future of high resolution multi-touch displays, integrated into your daily life in ways that are truly useful to you. Today's PC simply isn't all that useful to a lot of people, but their cell phones are.
Geek imaginations seem to have been hobbled a bit by a decade or two of monopoly-induced stagnation in the technology industry. Steve Jobs said it first, but people don't realize how much faster progress could have been. The pace in the past few years has been picking up, thanks largely to Apple and Google lighting a fire under the industry.
Others have speculatd that iPhone will probably double the user base for Mac OS X within a few years. That estimate is way, way low. It's clear that Apple intends to base nearly all of their future appliances, like the Apple TV and iPhone are now, on Mac OS X. The iPod line will migrate to OSX over time. Is the new Airport Extreme Base Station running OSX? If not, future versions probably will be, given the direction that product is heading. The next 100 million iPod (iPods? iPodi? iPodden?) will be running OSX. That's four or five times the current OSX user base in probably 3 years or so. That will be good for the platform as a whole, and all you luddite backward-facing "I want my old fashioned desktop PC" nerds will benefit, too.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
I'm working for a company that hopes to release a new Mac product in the near future. Leopard has been a concern for us, but we've known that Tiger (10.4) systems will be a significant portion of the install base for our product launch. The Leopard delay actually will help us, because we can now focus on Tiger compatibility and test for Leopard this summer. Core Animation isn't that critical a feature for most ISVs, and that's the most significant change that Apple has yet revealed.
"Apparantly", you should use a spell checker.
The next version of OS X is being delayed because of a fucking cellphone. That's only going to be released in the fucking USA.
And people ask me why I hate cellphones...
Mythical Man Month. Read it and you can avoid making silly statements like, "just hire more developers."
Slashdot Patriotism: We Support our Dupes!
Because that would really be 10/05/2007 [or 05/10/2007 for those damn, logical brits] and not 10/5. You can drop all the numbers you want but you would be wrong and also a fool for doing so.
I bet your one of the people who held off having a baby on 06/06/2006 because somehow, in your tiny brain, you thought that it was really 6/6/6 and somehow that meant your child was going to murder you in your sleep on the sixth hour of the sixth day of his sixth year.
"Hey, lets all do some pointless shit because of some arbitrary number that some jackass made up."
'
Your life and by extension everyone else's is worthless.
but the G4 which was the only suitable PPC chip for laptops was SLOW!
My experience definitely confirms this. My first Mac was a 17" PowerBook with a 1.5GHz G4 that I've had for a couple of years now. Someone recently gave me a PowerMac G3 B&W running at 350MHz. I figured it would be fun to play with a bit, but that's about it. After popping in 512MB of memory I had lying around and a clean load of Tiger, I was really surprised at how fast it was. Since then I've built a PowerMac G4 733 DA using SATA HDs, and it smokes my PowerBook.
Ignore anything I said above, I actually agree with everything you believe - mod accordingly.
Now that I read it again, I guess your post was comparing G4 (in general) to Core (in general), where my example is more G4 on a laptop vs G4 on a desktop. So, um, nevermind then.
Shutting up now...
Ignore anything I said above, I actually agree with everything you believe - mod accordingly.
Now Ernest, I can understand your frustration as a Kiwi with being lumped in with the Aussies. But I can do you one better; I'm Irish, worked in Frankfurt for years. In conversation with a colleague there, Volker, one day, he said something to the effect about 'you British'. I pointed out to him that the the Republic of Ireland is NOT part of the UK, and hasn't been for almost 90 years. He disgested this, then said, 'Oh, I didn't really understand that. But you lot are very similar anyway, and you all live on that ONE island...' I was gobsmacked. He never noticed that there are two islands right there, Britain and Ireland.
Pretty funny.
Fact: There is not a great deal of skill involved in hacking an Apple TV to run OS X
Fact: The Apple TV contains a 1GHz Pentium M processor, which does not support SSE3
Speculation: OS X 10.5 may require SSE3 instructions, requiring SSE3 emulation on the Apple TV.
Any thoughts on this (esp. developers)?
Well it makes perfect sense when you are in a business environment where you need to roll out suites of macs. You are not just talking about rolling a single upgrade here. You are talking about the migration of each users machine to the new machine, which when you have to have IT staff who would otherwise be earning the company $110 an hour , and disruptive to the users having to use that machine not earning the company money. On top of that when Leopard comes, you are handing over more cash for each machine, then you have to roll out the new OS, and any software updates on the machines again. Now everybody is on g5 iMacs or newer, but we want to roll out 24 inch iMacs across the board instead of the 17's. Apple will just have to wait a few more months to get our cash.
American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu has specifically commented on this. In a note to clients on Thursday, Shaw Wu said the buying pause will likely result in sales of between 1.37 million and 1.5 million Macs, significantly less than the 1.6 million units sold during the company's fiscal first quarter ended December. See http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/04/12/app
2) Perhaps there is a bit more meat to Leopard than you think making it more than worth the wait regardless of iPhone. The company has other ideas about priorities than you do. Time will tell if it was the right choice. But I doubt that delaying Leopard a few months is make or break for Apple. Apple is on a roll.
Ok, lets not get it confused here.... Apple specifically said they took engineers off Leopard development to get the iPhone done, and that was the reason for the delay. So had they not done so Leopard would be done in time. And yes it is OBVIOUS that apple has other ideas about priorites than I do otherwise I would not be here annoyed about it. And no a few months will not make or break apple, but it will annoy many of apple's customers such as myself.
My company is an Apple Select member and have access to the leopard builds etc, and get to see first hand the lack of advancement in leopard. In discussion, myself and fellow testers put the buggy builds down to apple pulling code with their "Secret features", this is not the case, and obviously wishful thinking.
As for the delay of the OS itself, Apple fans are getting to taste a little of the Vista sauce for themselves right now, me included.
My Mac SE/30 (purchased in January 1989, although I had to wait several weeks to get it) worked perfectly for 14 years. By the end it was running NetBSD rather than MacOS, but it still worked fine.
My SE/30 ran System 7. I've also got a Powermac 7300/200 which runs System 8. It lasted me several years, from 2000 'til early last year when it wouldn't bootup. Now I'm planning on getting a Macbook Pro and was thinking about setting it up to dualboot, OSX and Linux, Ubuntu maybe. But Windows will be barred. If I have to run a Windows app, and I haven't found a Windows app for which there is not an equivent app for Macs, I'll tryout Crossover. There was one I wasn't sure I could find a replacement for, XMLSpy, but a few other /.ers pointed me to <oXygen/> XML Editor.
FalconShould there be a Law?
As Microsoft made a similar attempt over the past six years, we might now call this the "Vista Effect".
Or the Copland effect, for the delays and cutbacks in Mac OS 8?
Or the Rhapsody effect, for the delays in Mac OS X?
Or the Babbage Effect, for the delays in the development of the Difference Engine as it became the Analytical Engine?
Unless there's a hell of a "Just One More thing" waiting in Leopard, though, there doesn't really seem to be all that much in Leopard over Tiger. It ain't no moon shot. It's not even a chaser.
The 8-core Mac Pro is stupendous -- you can't even run XP on an 8-core system, period -- you'd need Windows Server Enterprise Edition for that. OS X runs happily on 8 cores without any special uber-expensive edition license... as long as those 8 cores reside in hardware that came from Cupertino, of course.
Microsoft actually change their licensing policy a few years ago, when dual-core processors were looming. They now license per "processor", meaning per physical package, rather than per core. Personally I have no idea why they did this, but it strikes me as generous. I'll take it. Read about it here: http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/highlights/mul
I don't quite get it. When you speak of "extended register range", you refer to the fact that the registers are 64 bits wide, right?
. ars):
No, love.
Let's start with this quote from Hannibal at Ars Technica (from http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/x86-64
In the case of x86-64, it's the added registers and other changes that actually account for better performance on normal apps like games.
While I must admit I'm not an expert on the i386 or AMD64 architectures and am willing to be corrected, I know that i386 has eight named 32-bit registers -- actual places that the processor can store each datum it is working on -- while AMD64 has 16 named 64-bit general-purpose registers and eight named 128-bit vector registers for Single Instruction, Multiple Data stuff, which is more commonly known as SSE, SSE2 and SSE3 and is comparable to the PowerPC AltiVec stuff. The more convenient on-the-processor storage you have (like more pigeon-holes for data) the easier it is to keep the CPU doing useful work and keep track of that work.
I assume that doubling the size of the int or float is an issue for cache exhaustion, but would assume that AMD's and Intel's engineers have the issue under control. Perhaps the reason that the dual processor AMD64 chips only have 512KiB of L2 cache is to do with chip yields and room on the silicon dies, or perhaps there isn't sufficient speed improvement to show a need for a larger cache -- I'm not sure.
WOW, I can't believe the markup between a p5 520 and the i5 520 my company uses (nearly identical hardware).... OS400 costs A LOT!!!
Have you tried dying of AIDS? Maybe you should!
+++ATH0
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=230833&thresho ld=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=18847517 [slashdot.org]
You're dying, very slowly at slashdot, Pinochio. Cowards and liars (which you are caught in the act of doing there above in your own words) die a 1000 deaths. I'm not apk, and I see you are caught lying there as well as shown as a crappy reviewer of a program, because you say it gains somebody nothing, but yet you say clock cycles are saved, and you missed many good points about this program like safety and thoroughness as well as a design that has stood the test of time on several windows versions iterations builds. You and your fellow arstechnica forums members (Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little) are exposed there as well as liars and weak technically like yourself also. Birds of a feather, do stick together (liars, blowhard big talkers with nothing of worth noted to their credit in computer sciences, and 'trollers' that can't take being trolled also), at artechnica, lol.