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AT&T Vs. Apple Store At the iPhone Launch
MBCook tips an article at Gizmodo that begins with a reader's experiences trying to buy an iPhone yesterday at an AT&T store and an Apple store. Many, but not all, of the comments on the post echo this reader's experience: Apple good, AT&T bad. "Day one revealed what all Apple aficionados fear. That AT&T, through the depths of its incompetence, could derail the iPhone."
Honestly, I don't know WHAT THE F happened. Jobs himself said when announcing the iphone release date that those wishing to buy it should "go to an AT&T store.." there were questions about whether Apple would sell it at all on launch date. Then in the days before the release, I saw a lot of talk on the 'net about people lining up at Apple stores, and ZERO people lining up at AT&T.
As some who saw my posts 3 days ago may have noted, i was very excited for the release of the iphone, and i bought four of them. However, this was GROSSLY mishandled by Apple not making it patently clear that Jobs had misspoke (or whatever) earlier. My plan to go to the AT&T owned local store was thwarted when one of our guys went down there (I was in meetings all day) check the line, then reported to me that he was told the store didn't have ANY iPhones at all, but was giving out "vouchers."
By this time the local Apple store was a madhouse. I'd dropped in around noon on my way to a meeting, and it had around 150 people in line (this is a not-so-very-well-known one, inside a crappy mall). By the time I got out of meetings and adjusted the buying plan, it was almost 8. The store ran out with around 200 people still ahead of me in line.
I got up this morning at 8am, and went to the store when it opened. I was the 42nd through the door, and bought 4 of the remaining 18 4GB phones (the 8GBs were all gone). Everyone behind me in line was told a shipment would arrive "later today sometime" and they could wait. No one got out of line and left.
Now that I have the iPhone, i'm as impressed as I hoped i'd be (and glad I bought three more for my colleagues), although it certainly could use some minor software updates (minor tweaks to the UI.. adding of buttons, landscape mode for the keyboard in other than Safari, etc).. but the pinch/stretch zoom, animations, etc are all phenomenal. The phone is very impressive, but does give a few feels of "beta," and the fact that some of the software even between our 4 phones is different suggests to the phones are still "development build" and several major revisions will be pushed through itunes software updates.
Overall, I am very pleased with the phone.. and less than pleased with Apple's management of the whole thing (I mean, it's their reputation here.. not AT&T's.. if anything I feel bad for AT&T, as it seems they may have been screwed out of phones originally due them so that the Apple stores could garner some publicity)
I will also say that the Apple store employees were applauding for us as we entered the store this morning. Really people.. APPLAUSE? WTF. It's a fricking phone, I'm not shaving my head for charity or doing something noble... I'm an American jackass spending $2k on phones because they can play H.264, have a nice UI, and won't crash, LOL. Also, for what it's worth, T-mobile has had my monthly payments for 3yrs now, and I *NEVER* have service (and I live in a major, populated, affluent part of Los Angeles). My treo/blackberry constantly say "no service" in my house. Today I have 5bars on my iPhone. Now, maybe this is just luck of the draw, and i'll have crappy reception in place that t-mobile rocked, but so far, I have zero regrets.
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
MY IPHONE DOESNT WORK.
I activated two yesterday, they both worked for 12 hours. This morning neither phone will make or receive calls; or browse on EDGE.
The GSM/EDGE modem is BRICKED -- STAY FAR AWAY. Apple blames ATT, and ATT blames Apple.
These guys are in way over their heads. Meanwhile, 15 hours of tech support hold time later -- still can't make a call.
That AT&T, through the depths of its incompetence, could derail the iPhone.
It's not that they're incompetent. It's just that they don't care. They don't have to. They're the phone company.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
When it came to activating the device, AT&T customers were given a code to tap into iTunes, proving they were already approved for the service and allowing them to skip some steps in the online process. Apple customers would have to go through that process at home in front of their computer.
If they found out that they did not meet the requirements, they would be offered the option of signing up for a prepaid plan I guess AT&T isn't handling everything badly.
I need a new phone, I thought about the iPhone, but decided to wait for the OpenMoko if it emerges, if not then I go for a Nokia smartphone.
Firstly, being stuck to the set provider is not very cool, secondly the other two phones are far more hackable for us open-source geeks.
My little Linux and tech blog
I've been wondering: Is it possible to buy an iPhone and either not activate service at all, or cancel it in the first month because the coverage is not good (which is generally true for AT&T)?
Unlocking is just a matter of time.
I'm betting that within 6 to 9 months Apple will either buy out or break their 2-year exclusivity contract with AT&T. I'm sure the penalties will be high if they do break it, but it will probably be more than made up for in sales.
This guy's the limit!
"Day one revealed what all Apple aficionados fear. That AT&T, through the depths of its incompetence, could derail the iPhone."
I am sorry, but what the hell is this supposed to mean? For one thing, this is day one of the damn phone being sold, and it is no surprise that the AT&T monkeys were in a panic trying to get the phones to activate on the spot. If it hadn't occurred to anyone, those who went to the Apple stores got their boxes and then left and activated the phone via iTunes. Those who went to AT&T had their phones activated in-store, thus causing slower activations and the incompetence that you expect from your mobile phone carriers.
Does anyone see the difference here now? The summary of this article is pure crap.
I'm glad there's people who will put up with all the hiccups, problems, and long waits. Suffering through the frustrations for me. There's no way I'd wait in line for hours to get one of these things. Y'know it's a mass produced item. If you can wait a few days/weeks. Then you can go in at your convenience, no wait, get the phone you want, and hopefully all the activation issues/major bugs will be ironed out by then (if there are any). And v1.0 usually has some bugs/issues.
:).
I for one am sick of bleeding on the bleeding edge. "Oh new and shiny today!". Tomorrow it's just old news "Yeah so what..." Good luck to all of you suckers. I'm on AT&T right now and looking to drop them after my contract is up. I'm hoping Apple gets a version out that will work with another provider... but I'm gonna wait and see. It's definitely not automatic but that interface sure is slick
I waited an hour in line at the Apple Store in Boca Raton. Got a couple of phones for my small biz, went home, activated one, transferring my Verizon phone number, was up an running last night. No biggie. Works great. Clearly the best option out there even with the slowww EDGE network. Any techie worth much in the biz world will have lots of wifi options so I can deal with occassional slow EDGE. Worst case in the field, I'll boot up my Mac with its Verizon EVDO wireless and setup a wifi net for the phone ;)
i was trying to be classy calling them colleagues, but technically they're employees at a company in which I own a majority stake. i've chosen to purchase the iphone for them as I believe it benefits their productivity. but thanks for assuming the worst.
ACing this because i don't feel like wasting karma on you.
I'm not sure what market everyone else was in, but in my small Tennessee town, it couldn't have been a smoother purchase. I walked into the AT&T store Saturday afternoon at 3:30pm, they had 4 8gb, 4 4gb iPhones in-stock. I needed to transfer my number form my dad's account (I've been paying the bill for the last 2 years) and possibly pay a deposit for a new contract under my name with my old number. It took me about 15 minutes on the phone with a transfer rep. and less than 5 minutes to confirm everything was correct (with no deposit) to get in and out. Got home, activated the phone in about 5 minutes; everything works perfectly with my new awesome phone. They couldn't have been more helpful at the AT&T store; looks like a case of YMMV.
A: AT&T.
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
As New England Telephone became NYNEX and NYNEX became Verizon, I continued to keep my long distance service with AT&T for no reason other than that I always had. At the time of the incident I'm about to describe, I had been an AT&T customer for approximately twenty-five years at the same address and the same telephone number. And I doubt that I had ever paid late even once.
About the only thing that changed was that, as an experiment, instead of mailing them a check, I used my bank's online bill-paying service. Things went OK for several months. The month of the incident I am about to relate, I authorized online payment of AT&T's bill about eight business days before the due date. The bank's online site said that payment would take five days, because apparently AT&T didn't accept electronic payments from them.
Then, one night, at dinnertime, I got a telephone call from a collection agency saying my account was overdue.
Briefly, the facts as they ultimately emerged were: a) the bank statement showed the bill as having been "paid" about five days before the due date; b) the image of the back of the cancelled check from the bank showed AT&T's bank as having received it several days before the due date; c) AT&T's own records showed the bill as having been paid one or two days late.
AT&T's billing office was perfectly nice and acknowledged having received payment. In a few days they sent me a written acknowledgement.
But the collection agency wouldn't stop calling.
AT&T kept saying they had told the collection agency they had received payment. The collection agency kept saying "This office has not received that information."
The collection agency refused to provide me with any contact information other than a post office box number.
I mailed them photocopies of the back of the cancelled check and AT&T's statement showing payment. The people on the phone said they had not received them. (Since they would not provide anything but a PO box I couldn't send the material by certified mail).
They continued to phone me every night at dinner time for several weeks.
Eventually the calls stopped, but I was extremely ticked off. I sent a polite, well-worded letter to the CEO of AT&T--who was it? Ivan something-or-other? Seigelman? Seidenberg, saying I thought I'd been treated pretty badly and I wanted them to at least refund that month's bill, about $65. Someone from Seidenberg's office called me, talked to me, listened carefully, apologized nicely, and said they would indeed send the $65.
A week passed. No $65. Two weeks. Three weeks. A month. No check in the mail.
I switched my long-distance service to another carrier. I left a message with whomever it was at Seidenberg's office, explaining why. I got a returned message from the same person, who sounded genuinely upset, saying that she had instructed some office or other to send me the check but that apparently it hadn't happened. A week later I did, in fact, get a check for $65.
But I had already switched, and needless to say I didn't switch back.
For the next year, I got periodic mailing and occasional phone calls from AT&T saying they missed me, and wouldn't I switch back.
Unbelievable. I'm very lazy. Absolutely all AT&T ever had to do to keep me as a customer was to exploit my inertia and not do anything to actively drive me away. They lost a 25-year customer by a) siccing a collection agency on me for one bill that was two days late according to AT&T... and on time according to the back of the check, and b) utterly screwing up the follow-up.
How can anyone turn a story about frenzied buying and sell outs into one of bungling and failure? Steve Ballmer is smoldering somewhere, wishing Zune or Vista had met with similar success. There's no doubt, iPhone is a winner.
Even I want one, but it will be a long time. I'm not going to leave Sprint over a phone, especially one that cost so much. They can get me later if they half the price, give it an easy to access sim card and make it so I can use it with Amarok.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
It would have been no different with any other cell carrier, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, or whoever. What choice did Apple have but pick the best of the worst? (Whether AT&T truly is the best of the worst remains to be seen, but they apparently gave Apple the deal they wanted).
Everybody makes the incorrect assumption that you are going to get the same user experience with a cell phone carrier as you do with Apple. At least with Apple, one company gives a hoot in the arrangement. You get the same customer service from Microsoft when you buy a Windows Mobile phone as you do with your carrier.
I will be leaving Verizon for AT&T when I get an iPhone, so I hope the service is comparable. I am not however expecting the customer service to be any better.
This is not troll, but doesn't it strike anyone else as fairly crazy that people are lining up for hours and planning entire days around buying something? It's not like this is an AIDS vaccine or the cure for cancer. I've never really understood the mentality of lining up outside the store or the theater in order to get something or see something at the earliest possible moment. Can someone please explain this whole phenomenon to me? It seems a lot like a drug user itching for a fix, or some equally unhealthy and unhinged obsession with instant gratification. I'm very open to being corrected on this, but it doesn't seem normal to me.
A-Bomb
It's a fucking phone that quite frankly, you will care NOTHING about in 6 months because the Next OMGHI2U Best Thing is being trotted out by Father Materialism. How many more bits of consumerism must you buy before you realize you are the latest in a sad parade of chumps who lined up to buy Marco Polo's tea from the Orient, tulips in Sweden, Pet Rocks in the 70s, Cabbage Patch Dolls in the 80s, Nintendo 64s in the 70s, and now this. Will your life truly be complete because you now own the most overpriced phone of the moment? Or is this just the latest fix?
It's moments like this that truly make Islam look sane.
Dang - use preview! I meant customer records - not employee. Sigh.
"Day one revealed what all Apple aficionados fear. That AT&T, through the depths of its incompetence, could derail the iPhone."
This post is not intended as a flame or some kind of universal truth...just my own experiences and observations.
I have purchased 4 ipods thus far (2 for myself and 2 as gifts). I bought my mother a mac mini for her birthday. I think Apple is the most innovative company in consumer electronics right now. I have disposable income and I like spending my money on gizmos.
I live in Boston. I had Cingular / AT&T for four years and verizon for three. I had terrible reception and frequent dropped calls with Cingular and nearly none (in the same place) with Verizon.
Based on my personal experiences I'm going to wait until I can use the iphone with another carrier.
You guys can't bash Apple for this shit, though. A few huge corporations have a stranglehold on the cellular networks in this country, and they're more than willing to keep selling you the same service they've always been pushing as long as they possibly can. Apple had to cut a deal with one of the providers, and why would the market leaders push a product which will force them to offer new features, expand their network, and increase consumer expectations? Thus we get this Apple / AT&T deal.
Bottom line, iphone early adopters are going to have to suffer with a second-best carrier for six months to a year or so, at which point other companies (assuming the thing hasn't flopped) will start making the modifications to support the iphone's data-dependent features. Cell phone carriers that aren't leading the market won't change a thing unless they think it's going to gain them market share, and ones that are won't change a thing unless they're already losing it. It's just the way the game works.
I almost have to wonder if Jobs really "misspoke" or if this was a beautiful way to declare early on that "you get your iPhone from Apple". Hey while you're in the Apple store get some extra iPod stuff or go look at a new laptop.
We are all just people.
But I'm too busy waiting in line for Transformers.
There's a 68.71% chance you're right.
I did the AT&T line thing from around noon on and it went well. They had around 60 8G units and I was around #40 so my wait was worth it.
Quite a few people were holding places for bosses, parents and spouses. Most of the people seemed to be Mac users. Everyone was in a good mood and it made the time pass.
The Store was great, good attitudes all the way around, I gave them a credit card they gave me a phone. Can't get much easier than that. They told us ahead of time that the # accessories was limited and tried to set expectations. We were told ahead of time that they would only sell one phone per person which I think really helped.
Online activation was easy, note that I'm a current AT&T customer so that may account for something.
The phone is nice and it's easier to learn to type on than doing Graffiti (sp) on my old Treo. The edge works as I expected (note: I spend a lot of time in a non-3G area so that wasn't a problem). The voice quality is good according to friends I've talked to.
For those out there that don't like it, don't buy one. Most of the arguments against it (it's going to cost $$$ over 2 years, like I won't have a phone otherwise) are just silly but such is the world it seems.
Of course, today my Nokia 770 arrived (from the Woot last week) so now I have two toys to play with...
The original comment was Jobs saying in passing to someone, that they woudl have "a better chance" at an AT&T store. That turned out to be wrong, but to my recollection there was never an official annoncement saying AT&T stores were the place to go.
You already knew everything you needed to know about which store being faster, based on how they operate day to day. I know; I went into an AT&T store a day or two before. Just a few cash registers? Simple math says throughput will be low, compared to how Apple handles transactions every day with emplyess that roam with checkout machines - whcih can be added along with more employees. AT&T simply cannot add more registers as easily.
Now, I do think AT&T employees should have been better about informaing the line as to what was going on - Apple store employees are great that way, and were really working the line I was in. But there again, you can go into stores ahead of time and judge the quality of line servicing you will get just by daily interaction with regular visitors.
I odn't think AT&T should get jabbed too hard for basically being like any other retail outlet, caught in a tidal wave they could ill comprehend. Instead this is an opportunity to realize just how good Apple store eomployees are, that they seem happy with the job and are also well prepared for epic sales events such as this one.
I filled out the feedback on my Apple store receipt commending the people that work there - I think if other people had a good experience, they should do the same and let Apple know just how special the front line employee base they've managed to grow really is!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I like the WiFi from the EvDO laptop - pretty good idea. The iPhone is easier to manage in a car than a laptop, for sure.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
At 9:30 pm, I started the activation process using iTunes. An existing AT & T customer, I figured this would be no issue. I was wrong.
I saw the dreaded, "Your activation requires additional time to complete." and waited. and waited and waited.
I was told the following fun things from AT & T customer service:
I was sent an e-mail from AT & T giving me an order number. When I mentioned to customer service that number, I was told, "That number doesn't really mean anything to us."
It's 10:34 pm on Saturday night, and my iPhone is still an iBrick.
http://www.htcherocentral.com
I have Sprint and the coverage is very good. In fact that is the main reason I have them. I'm sorry to say that their human service sucks though. I can get in network coverage anywhere anybody I know gets coverage, usually better quality but when it comes time to call and talk to a person it always sucks.
AC to avoid blowing mod points
This is a marriage made in 'only convenient because we have no other choice but pretty ugly in every other sense' land. AT&T does and continues to do things that require the least amount of R&D expenditure from their revenues. Despite the fact that their entire infrastructure is generations past even medially-edged; they continue to squeeze their creaky old steam-powered communications lines to the last buffalo cent. The Intarweb boom left them in the dust and their cellular network is a collection of cans and strings compared to what countries in Asia and Europe are used to.
This, partnered with a leading development/IT company borne in the age of 'assimilate, ditch, reinvent, rinse, or die' company culture? Apple is a company all about rewriting itself (for better or worse)--constantly changing lest the market eat them alive; whereas AT&T is from an era of monolithic monopolistic control and change when they damn well feel like getting around to it.
Not terribly surprising that these differences manifest themselves even at the retail level
Rogers/Fido, Bell and Telus up in Canada make AT&T look competent and benign.
/ voice/navigate-mobile-internet.asp?
p IRPList.page?wlcs_catalog_category_id=TreoPocketPC RatePlans
i l_all.shtml
Rogers data plans : http://www.shoprogers.com/store/wireless/services
Bell data plan examples: http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_AB/PrsShpWls_Rt
Telus data plan examples: http://www.telusmobility.com/ab/plans/pcs/talkema
Couple those rates with service that is slightly less friendly than AT&T's.
~ a low user id is no indication I have a clue what I'm talking about.
I don't think everyone else on earth should stay away from something because one person has a problem.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Hate to nitpick, but it's no longer "AT&T". It's now "at&t", the new softer, friendlier telephone company.
☠
we're really referring to SBC, not AT&T. The AT&T of old was, if nothing else, highly competent at running a phone system. SBC, on the other hand, doesn't do much of anything well except suction wallets dry. And SBC is the new AT&T.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I had a similar bad experience with AT&T and good experience with Apple:
Executive summary
- AT&T Mgr. refused to give basic information (do you have enough iPhones for all 20 people in line?)
- AT&T Mgr. lied about availability (iPhones are sold out all through the city)
- AT&T Mgr. intentionally tries to hide Apple Store availability to get more sales for his store.
- AT&T screwed up the order for the first guy in line, who had been waiting for hours. By the time he realized they gave him a 4GB phone, there were no 8GB units left.
- Apple store had many iPhones. Completed quick, easy, efficient transaction.
The long version:
I wasn't about to wait in lines for more than 15-30 minutes, but I headed up to the closest AT&T/Cingular store which was in an area I thought might not get a lot of traffic (Kalamazoo Rd & Hwy 6, Grand Rapids, MI). There were about 20 people waiting in line at 5:55PM, so I joined in.
The AT&T rep came out and asked for a show of hands on how many people wanted 4GB vs 8GB. Almost everyone wanted 8GB, and by his grimace I saw that was going to be a problem. I asked him how many phones they had, and he said "I can't tell you that". I persisted, asking if it was worth while for those of us near the end to wait. He said "if we run out, we can process the order and direct ship to your home". So, now his intention was obvious.. keep as many people there as possible, and try to get more sales even after running out of phones. There were 4 or 5 employees, but for some reason they only allowed two people to enter the store at a time, and the transactions seemed to take forever.
Against my better judgment, I stayed in line. About 45 minutes later, they had slowly processed 10-15 people ahead of me. One of the earlier people came out and said they had run out. Shortly after that, the first guy in line returned. He had bought an 8GB iPhone and later found that they had given him a 4GB unit. Now all the 8GB units were gone.. The manager came out and asked if anyone in the line was paying cash and wanted a 4GB unit. One guy jumped at this, and they took his money, gave it to the first guy, and gave the cash guy the iPhone. Kinda shady to avoid a return..
The AT&T people said that no other stores in the city had iPhones left. (I had already tried to call the Apple store to see their status, but couldn't get through.) And they said they would do free next day shipping, and claimed that ordering in the store would be faster than online. I am in Eastern time zone, and I thought the online purchases might be closed until 6PM Pacific. So, I went ahead and ordered it there. The guy taking my order seemed like he had never used the sales system before, and it took 5+ minutes to complete my sale.
Shortly before I got in the AT&T store, some guy walked up and asked why we (the four remaining laggards) were waiting in line. He said "there's no lines at the Apple store at the mall, and they have plenty left". We had all seen coverage of the campers at the Apple store on last night's news, so we thought he was messing with us, or trying to get us to give up our spots in line.
On the off chance he was telling the truth, I drove over to the mall. There were a lot of people milling around the store, fondling the iPhones on display. I asked an employee if they had any left, and he pointed to the rows of iPhone bags behind the genius desk and registers.. there were over a hundred there on the floor. I picked up an 8GB iPhone, the Apple employees were plentiful, helpful, and efficient. The purchase took all of 40 seconds. Ithen zipped back over to the AT&T store to void my earlier transaction.
They voided my iPhone order without argument (I was a bit surprised at that). I explained to the manager that he was incorrect when he told me that there were no more iPhones in the city, and told him of the hundreds at the Apple store. He quickly called another AT&T store and began comparing notes with someone there.
The company in reality is the Cingular entity, who now call themselves AT&T, by virtue of buying AT&T.
Why did they not have the iPod and other non cellular functions work without activation? Also, why activate through iTunes? I mean these 2 things means you are really leaving the store with something that does not work. Also, the stupid phone is locked to the hilt ot not even accept a AT&T SIM from another phone. It can only use the sim that it comes with and THAT sim CAN be used in other phones. Mornic. Glad I am not buying one.
Gorkman
You don't get out much, do you? The world stood in line, jackass.
I've been a wireless customer of Verizon, Cingular/AT&T, and Sprint. I am currently an AT&T customer because work chose them for our crapberries. I travel *a lot* in my job. In my experience, Verizon to has the best coverage (and costs the most), followed closely by Cingular. Sprint was pretty crappy. I also found that Verizon had the worst customer service out of all of them (very very arrogant), but Sprint was very close behind (just plain rude). Also, at the time Sprint's early termination fee was the remainder of the contract. I would have kissed a manager if they let me out for $175. Through the phone. (At the time I was driving up and down the Virginia Eastern Shore and Sprint had NO coverage at all out there.)
I suppose it depends on who you trust. Do you trust the J.D. Power rankings?
they should've sold the thing without the phone feature. no one would be complaining right now
Uhm... oh... wait. Yeah... I don't care, I'm completely tired of the words "iPhone" and "Apple".
If by 'the world' you mean 'androgynous hipster apple whores,' yeah...
While all of you morons were waiting on long lines for your iBrick, I was out listening to non-DRMed MP3's that I just copied to the flash card in my A-707 w/o having to use some god-awful buggy and inefficient middleware app.
You mean iTunes?
I used iTunes as the music manager for my non-iPod MP3 player: it handles non-DRM-ed MP3s just fine, and smart playlists are a really neat tool for managing your MP3 player's storage... I'm sure that they prototyped the iPod shuffle's smart shuffle that way.
I'll agree that the iPhone is overrated and overpriced, but when I criticize Apple (or any other company) I'm doing it as someone who uses... or at least researches... the products first. Not from a position of sloganeering or ignorance.
I'm not a big Apple fanboy, and quite honestly I don't see anything that revolutionary about the iPhone. But even so, I did take a look at getting one just because I like gadgets. But the fact that Apple went with AT&T was an instant deal breaker.
I live out in the proverbial sticks. And as the saying goes, its the network, stupid. Where I live, T-mobile barely works, AT&T never works, but Verizon Wireless has never let me down. And while traveling in a 4-state area to service clients, Verizon Wireless is also the only one to never let me down. So for me, any answer other than "we're going with Verizon" is the wrong answer if you want me to buy your phone, and it doesn't matter how revolutionary it is. At the end of the day if I can't make a phone call, your gadget is useless, and its feature set is irrelevant.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
Needless to say, I was not impressed by the Cingular/AT&T people. They were typical of most subscription sales organizations I've run into. They just seemed slimy, and clearly had little concern for their customers, as long as they got their commission.
.MAC account just so I can reliably sync my PDA to two Macs), and (by the way) the term "Genius Bar" is too twee to be believed... but the people they have working for them are top notch... and they let them show it.
This is natural. Think about it. People who are working at the Apple store are working there because they want to work at an Apple store, just because it's an Apple store. There's more than enough people who want to work there that they have no need to hire people who are just going for the bucks.
Apple's got all kinds of problems, and they piss me off at times. Their computers are pretty but unexceptional and intentionally crippled (there's no way I'd have considered a Macbook over a Thinkpad for a second if I could run OS X on a Thinkpad), they've got this horrible tendency to stick to bad ideas forever (Steve, putting two buttons below the Macbook touchpad WILL NOT make the other kids laugh at you), and their approach to syncing leaves me cold (no, I'm NOT going to pay you for a
(am I ambivalent about this company or what?)
I watched parent poster type above post on working iPhone. He is lying and having fun tricking you into modding his post up. He has 5 iPhones and they all work beautifully.
Settle down, Beavis.
That company no longer exists. That's like saying if Delta Airlines merged with American Airlines and bought the naming rights to rename the company Pan-American Airlines, you wouldn't fly on it because Pan-Am treated you badly in the 70's.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
I went to an AT&T store to get the pre-approved credit check; the last thing I wanted was for something to go wrong at home and to have to go back *IN* to the store. The staff was courteous, but the credit checks tended to make the line go a lot slower than an Apple Store would have been.
The biggest problem was supply - the store in Virginia that I went to seemed to only have 30 phones on Friday, and sold out of 8GB models quickly. I managed to snag the 2nd last phone, a 4GB model. Friends at other stores in the area also experienced low stock at AT&T stores, whereas the Tyson's Corner Apple Store had well over 500+ phones, given the lineups serviced there without a shortfall.
-Stu
I went by the Apple Store in Valley Fair Mall, San Jose, CA at 8:50am on Friday to "see the line". It was reasonable (about 100 people), and fun (lots of Slashdot-types in line, with Steve Wozniak at the head of the line near his Segway), so I stayed for about an hour. Then I felt guilty about neglecting my work for a whole day, and left to get some work done. After dinner, I went back to the store to see how things were going, and whether I might still be able to buy a phone. I'm not sure how long the line got right at 6pm, but there were easily still 100 people ahead of me in the (new, outside) line when I got there at 7:30. Yet I waited just 30 minutes, as the line moved steadily along, and I easily made my purchase in the store at 8 (8GB model). The store manager and other employees did come out and told people in the line not to worry, that there would be plenty of phones available for all of us, and there were. When I left, there was no longer a line outside the building, so I guess they cleared it.
I was very impressed. I have purchased other products at the Apple store, and the fact that any employee can ring you up for a credit card purchase, take your signature on a Symbol handheld computer, and then email you your receipt is extremely efficient and impressive. This is what allowed Apple to process people so quickly; as many as 8 people buying phones in parallel, with the whole transaction taking just 1 minute.
I waited at the AT&T in the Kitsap Mall (Silverdale, WA). The people manning the store there were great. They even ran little contests with snacks (Apple pies or Apple dips from McDonald's). They let you in one at a time because there was no point in letting people mob the store--plus it built up anticipation, I'm sure. When I got in, the only hitch were that all the computers were getting smashed with the traffic. These were AT&T's machines.
:-)
I then had to wait for a full hour and a half (driving time back to my house) to activate it. At that point, I downloaded iTunes 7.3 (reasonably quick) and then tried to activate it. This process seemed to take quite a while. At one point, I got an error message about the iTunes store being swamped, but that went away. Then my number port seemed to hang, but then the activation went forward (albeit slowly). I got a few emails 5 minutes after I finished the process, and everything was working.
So for my part, servers were slow, but no one botched the job. I found the AT&T people really helpful at my location. But then we only had 100, maybe 150 people waiting in line. They ran out of 8Gs quickly, but I was within the 1st 15 people in, so I just didn't care--I knew I was getting mine
"Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs." -- Switchfoot, Ode to Chin
I still can't casually walk in to any store and get a Wii. (WA/Redmond/Bothell). It's July 2007!
I went to the AT&T store in Santa Clara. I showed up at 4 and was about 40th or so in line. I estimate that by 6 there were probably only about 100-150 total in line. The line went very slowly once 6 o'clock came around. I attribute this to two things:
1. The staff was trying to upsell accessories and AT&T DSL service.
2. Their computers were bogged down due to the event.
I had (have) a Cingular RAZR already, and he identified me in the computer. I don't know for sure, but pre-opening announcements were made to the effect that they were going to set you up with an account in the store prior to your iTunes activation, probably as a means to prevent eBay arbitrage.
After I paid, he dropped the phone in a bag and actually sealed it. Not sure what the point of that is/was.
The last oddity was that a store employee was stationed by the door and was locking and unlocking the door as people would enter and exit. I pointed out to them (on the way out - I'm no fool) that the fire marshal would have a fit if he caught them doing that. Crowd control is understandable, but locking the only means of egress from a retail space when customers are present is a bit of a no-no.
When I got home, the iTunes activation procedure with the phone was everything they promised it would be. It was only a couple minutes before the iPhone was up and running.
I don't know how long ago this occurred, but if it was within the past 30 years, you could have sent them a polite letter and the calls would have stopped immediately. If you tell a collection agency to stop calling you, they are not allowed to call again -- regardless of whether the debt is valid or not. The next thing they would have to do is sue you, and it sounds like you had enough documentation that you'd easily have prevailed and might even have gotten back more than your costs due to the harassment.
Learn your rights and you'll have a much easier time keeping them. The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act is a good place to start.
Uh, that joke was originally about Apple and IBM, and was coined the second time ago that an IBM/Apple merger was being talked about.
If you know what it's like to be on hold and have some empathy, this story (http://macslash.org/) will make your toes curl. The guy got an iPhone at the Apple Store and tried to get it activated by AT&T by telephone. Bad idea...
In Europe, combined sales are forbidden... so when it comes here, you will just use your usual network... no problems, no fuss...
link
Google video for "the phone company" (with quotes).
The AT&T apple is using is a different company than the one that screwed you over.
There were about 40 people in line and I got one. Saved a 5 hr round trip drive to the Apple store in Charlotte. Staff was friendly and trained. I don't know what happened when they ran out.
I like the phone. I agreed with Pogue's NYT review. WiFi good, Edge not so much. I was supprised how great the screen looks.
- i understand completely... it is absolutely DISGUSTING the way consumers are being treated nowadays, but that's not the real shame!
- nope, the real shame is that the sheep-like consumers out there seem to like being treated badly, and nowadays seem to expect and accept bad treatment, poor customer service, ID10T problems with tech support, slacker salespersons, and Bangalore-based customer service...
- i must be getting old, because the number of companies hosting good service (in this OF's mindset) is getting smaller every day...
- for example, i just went through the Best Buy pricing obfuscation scam (where on-line prices are not the same, nor willingly matched in stores)... did a quick research for an SDHC card for a digital camera... found a card at a good price, and highlighted AS IN STOCK at a local Best Buy...
- went to the store (while running errands with the wife), picked up the card (same stock number), but it was $10 more... i thought, "no problem, the price will be fixed at the register..."
- WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!! not only that, but was told, "Oh, you have to print out the Web page and bring it in if you want the Web price..."
- here's the kicker: in the past number of years our family has spent THOUSANDS of dollars with Best Buy... but no longer!
- for the cost of a few dollars, Best Buy has lost my business FOREVER!
(and my wife has a bad DVD/CD habit, and had also been eyeing some new appliances)...
- this is why i understand what you went through...
A friend and I went to the AT&T store near my work, even though there's an Apple store a couple blocks away. We were about 15th in line, and the final count before the doors opened was around 90. The AT&T employees let us in a few at a time, just enough for one customer per register. They greeted us with just as much enthusiasm and friendliness as I've ever recieved at the Apple store, even more so in fact. The people who work at my local Apple store are a little snobbish, and act like you're bothering them if you have a question. In my opinion the AT&T store did a great job, and were plenty prepared for the mad rush for the iphones. We got in and out with our iphones and accessories within 10 minutes, and it only took that long because we had a couple questions about the data plans. We went across the street to a Mexican restaurant, pulled out a Macbook Pro, got onto a wireless access point, and unpackaged the iphones. They already had a charge, so we hooked them up right away and started up iTunes. After a small iTunes update (to version 7.3 which adds iPhone support), we activated the phones on iTunes and it was up and running. We didn't even have to swap SIM chips like with most new phones. It just put our account info into the SIM chips already in the iPhones. I still haven't figured out the comment that says "I stood in line for 2 hours in 102 degree weather yesterday... and guess what? My phone still isn't activated. It's been over 24 hours." Why isn't your phone activated?
I had no trouble getting an iPhone at an AT&T store. True, it was the 3rd one I tried that had not run out, but that one had a huge inventory and a short line (5 minutes). As I needed to migrate from an older AT&T contract it was the only place to go. The store had about a dozen reps, and all seemed to be knowledgeable and helpful. My rep pointed out that it would be cheaper to add the iPhone to an existing contract than to get a new iPhone-specific contract; in fact, it was also cheaper than my current Treo plan. So she first migrated my old, grandfathered Original AT&T Wireless to a New AT&T family plan, threw in 3 LG 3G phones (free) for my 3 lines, then sold me the iPhone. Apple could simply not have done this. When I got the iPhone home I registered in on iTunes, adding it to the new plan. My monthly charges will be about $20 less than they were with the old plan and Treo. That will pay for the iPhone pretty quickly, compared to a new Treo. And I now have an extra LG.
--
Larry
No sig this message
I have been a contractor for at&t since 1999 in both the phone book publishing and old telephone business lines. I've **never** worked at Mobility or in an at&t stored. With all that said, here's what I know.
at&t has 350,000 employees
at&t realizes that with a company that large, you can't have "above average" workers everywhere.
at&t creates simple processes to be followed and trains their people on those processes over months and years.
at&t can't train their people very well for a 1-2 day product launch. The iPhone launch proves this.
Apple Stores, on the other hand, will have people that are comfortable with computers and technology. Most of these folks will be really excited (just look at Apple stock prices http://finance.google.com/finance?q=AAPL it has doubled in the last year ) about selling an iPhone, iPod and eventually a MacBook to you.
LOL,you actually sent a letter to the CEO?
That's great. I didn't think people actually tried stuff like that... He probably never saw it man, and they never give you your money back anyways. In fact, a retail manager would have probably been more likely and able and willing to credit your account for it.
Anyways, I also think you've misplaced the blame somewhat... I realize that AT&T shouldn't have sent you to collections, but from my understanding I think your anger should be diverted elsewhere:
1.) You. Isn't it your bill? Isn't the snafu going to be listed at the top of it, for the 'several months'? I'm pretty sure you should read those before you blindly pay them. I'm still honestly trying to figure out how this happened. If you kept paying your bill those payments should have been applied to the most past due bills, thus you would, at most, be only a single month behind, which is hardly a 'collections' type of offense.
2.) I thought you said AT&T happily handled their end of the situation, but it was the collections agency that was pestering you and getting on your nerves? But now you're pissed at AT&T? How does that make sense? Because they sent you to collections? Again, I'm not even sure how that's possible, but I'm even less sure how that's possible with you paying attention to the bills more closely.
I realize accepting your responsibility in this situation isn't an easy thing to do, but it's certainly your fault in large part. I believe you've failed to understand why the bill was late (almost all the billing is computerized, and no one gets kicked to collections for a two day late bill; in addition, I don't think AT&T sends ANY active customer to collections, only canceled accounts, but don't quote me), or why it went to collections.
Could it have been handled better by AT&T? Sure, it always can. It could have been handled better by you too.
If you want to 'vote with your dollar' so to speak, don't you think you ought to at least examine the issues?
Free Software to the rescue. If that sucker takes a sim card and works with my provider and does ogg, I want it. iPhone is off the list.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
People here are always "calling Bull Shit". Who is this person? And why do you all call them after someone lies or says something stupid? (Oh, and by the way, did you call them on your iPhone? Just curious.)
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
...I did tell the collection agency verbally on the phone that AT&T acknowledged that the bill had been paid, and I asked them not to call again. And I also told them in writing in a letter I sent to the address they provided, enclosing documentation, and they did not stop immediately. Maybe they are not "allowed" to call again, but the fact is that they did, over and over again, for about a month.
I "know my rights." It's like Dr. Strangelove, where the President says "But I thought only I had the authority to authorize a nuclear strike," and Buck Turgidson hems and haws and acknowledges that General Ripper "may have exceeded his authority."
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
I guess you have got spelling mistakes in your name. Shouldn't it be bukkake? You seem to be that kind of person to me.
I'm pissed at AT&T for turning over my bill to a collection agency in the first place, when a) it wasn't paid late, b) even AT&T thought it was only a couple of days late, c) I'd been their customer with a virtually immaculate payment record for twenty-five years. They should have given me about ninety days with slightly less polite warning letters every thirty days.
I'm pissed at AT&T for turning over my bill to a sleazy collection agency which they evidently weren't able or didn't want to control, and which most likely was breaking a few laws in continuing to call me.
I'm not pissed at the pitbull, I'm pissed with the guy that sicced the pitbull on me.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
I stood in line for about 2 hours at an att store. The guy there was fairly knowledgeable about the product. That being said, they got 30 8gb and 10 4gb models. For about 200 people in line. I was number 39, so I ended up with a four gb version. Some guy did come out with an eight versionand sold it for 1000 dollars to someone in line.
Yes, my girlfriend is a BitchX
>>one person with a crowd of people around them because they are showing off their spiffy new iPhone
Same thing happens to me whenever I go outside. People are always crowding me. I just don't get it. May be it has something to do with my giant size (its 12" now, when resting, and seemed to have gone twice the size since I bought iPhone) penis sticking out like a pole. And that started after I bought my first Apple product.
Sigh! I miss old days when I was an anonymous face in the public with just a regular size penis tucked nicely inside my trousers where it belongs.
I wasn't planning on spending my day camped inside the mall at the Apple store waiting for 6 o'clock (by noon it was over 150 people), so I decided to hit the nearest AT&T store. The line looked long, but upon counting, I was #47 @ 4:30. Unfortunately, the Texas Rain had stopped and I was wrapped around the wrong side of the building where it was hot as hell (98-F). We saw no signs of AT&T people whatsoever until 5:45 when they started running a survey. No one answered anything regarding how much stock they had. Even though I was #47, it took AT&T staff TWO HOURS to service everyone in front of me. They evidently thought they had to run credit checks on everybody. Then they decided to do manual receipts instead of printed ones. By 8:00pm, I was still outside waiting and pissed. We saw the manager and asked if there were going to be enough phones for us. He said that we'd have to wait and see, we might have to get vouchers. One of the guys behind me said, "you really ought to go in there an check your stock, because the last thing you want to happen is have all these folks outside wait another two hours for your slow-asses to tell us that we can't have a phone." He thought about it a second and made an "executive decision" to check the stock. Turns out he had plenty, but he acted like it was a huge inconvenience for HIM. Once I finally get in side, shortly after 8pm (remember, I was only #47!) they try to run a credit check. I said, I'll do it at home, just give me the goddamned phone. The clerk was totally clueless. He would put in my order then complain that the computer "kicked him out" and he'd ask me all the questions again. Plus he kept trying to sell my accessories, which I had no f*ing interest in, yet he was persistent, like he needed the quota or commission. It took 15 minutes from the time I walked up to the counter until the time I left the front door. Totally unacceptable.
I'll never enter another AT&T store again. And I already can't wait until my 2 year service contract is up.
Tim Wu over at Slate.com makes a pretty good argument that the decision to make the iPhone a ATT exclusive, along with a few other things like limiting the software that can be developed for the phone, mean that the iPhone isn't revolutionary at all.
I'm sure it has a beautiful UI and makes things pleasantly intuitive, but I think I'll be waiting for version 2, or a particularly good "iPhone Killer".
Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
Enjoy your cheap gas.
Ocean is land, covered with water.
I've found that my t-mobile phone only really works well up the ass when set to vibrate, and then only if it can still get a signal so that someone else can call me so that it rings (vibrates).
Ocean is land, covered with water.
iPhone activates you!
You are reading a sig. Cancel or allow?
I had basically the exact same experience, except it was local phone service from AT&T (before they merged with SBC, so I believe it was the same company as that which offered long distance). They screwed up something simple. I wanted to add Caller-ID to my existing service, and after a ridiculous obstructionist manipulative experience with customer service where they simply REFUSED to tell me the cheapest way to do it and instead went into a script about my "calling patterns", they finally added the service, then proceeded to over-bill me by $50 or $100 the next month. After getting it initially wrong, they screwed up the follow-up by changing me to different pricing packages and misrepresenting the price of the packages each time, and getting the billing wrong as well; I had to spend hours and hours on the phone with them to finally get everything right.
Eventually I switched, and for a long time afterwards, they sent me these mailings saying, basically, "PLEASE come back!" God, it was pathetic. It was like a guy who stands up his girlfriend on several dates, forgets her birthday even though she reminds him of it 10 times, acts like an ass when he meets her parents, and then when she finally dumps him he says, "But honey, I love you! Why are you leaving me?!"
I won't deal with AT&T anymore because it's ugly. It's ugly to watch a company be that incompetent and complacent. I don't like to see the inane side of humanity that clearly.
What were the software differences you noted between the phones, and did you get a software update for the iPhone via iTunes?
If only we could all be so refined and intelligent as you, the world would be a much better place. Ah, but then you wouldn't have the pleasure of publicly reminding the commoners of how far beneath you they all are, now would you?
Finland - banned / UK not banned. There are lots of subsidised phones with long contracts and penalty clauses in the UK.
Surprisingly, I can't find a YouTube video.
I believe this is what you're looking for
sorry for the late answer. So far the only software difference I've noted (but i've spent all of five minutes helping the others with their phones heh, so there may be more differences) was at least one phone includes a lot less bookmarks in safari than mine. My Safari includes around 15 or so bookmark folders.. history, bookmarks bar, bookmarks menu, new, mac, kids, sports, entertainment, etc. One of the other phones just had a couple of plain bookmarks in this section, no folders at all. and those bookmarks weren't editable (but they could be deleted, and new ones created that could be edited, if i recall).
i don't believe itunes performed any software updates. it did say something about it would next check on 7/7/07 for updates.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
I'm hoping somebody figures out how to access the internal memory on the iPhone so the installed version of OS X can be hacked. If the AppleTV is any indication, that would make the iPhone greatly hackable...
I was baffled by the exclusive deal they made with AT&T. Surely they would have done better without that deal.
I can't wait to see the European version. What are they going to do here? Will only 1 provider for each country get the phones? Will they be unlocked or unlockable?
Surely Apple knew this would be a problem. Why did they then choose to launch exclusively with AT&T?
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
...it's not a good brand name. FIC should just shorten it to "NEO" and then maybe they'll sell a few.
"Oh, what's that you're using?"
"Why, it's an FIC Neo1973!"
"An eff-eye what?"
"I mean it's the NEO!"
"Oh, cool!"
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
Way to go, dude. I can't say I had the same luck... what's your approach? C'mon, help a brother out.... :-)
You mean like Justin Verlander of the Detroit Tigers, who was showing off his new iPhone to his fascinated teammates during Sunday's ESPN-televised game versus the Minnesota Twins?
Verlander is last year's American League rookie of the year, and is 6'3" and 200 lbs.
Does he count as an "androgynous hipster apple whore"?
Or how about Joe Morgan, who commented on how the cameras caught Verlander playing with the iPhone, saying that he (Morgan) had just lined up to get a pair for his twin daughters?
Surely he isn't an "androgynous hipster apple whore" too?
Yes, it could all be an incredibly subtle product placement by Apple (Verlander was in the dugout but not pitching Sunday night, and ESPN is Disney). If so then Apple is even more full of genius marketers than anyone has ever suspected, because they got almost 15 minutes of very natural, unscripted-seeming pro-iPhone banter going during a relatively quiet period near the end of a (tied until the bottom of the 8th) nationally televised major league baseball game, and millionaire jock heros proclaiming their lust for these new gadgets.
On the other hand, it's unlikely many "androgynous hipster apple whores" were watching the game.
On Saturday. At my Apple store. Lots to sample, lots of geniuses floating around to answer questions, and four cashes, very little waiting. No lines.
There were lines because people liked sitting on line so they could be interviewed and have fun with the community. There's no shortage.
Not all that surprised. Most of the telcos are pretty bumbling.
Back in the heyday when AT&T, Sprint, and MCI were competing for each other's long distance business, I switched LD carriers about 8 times in 3 years. I'd get a call, they'd offer to pay my switch fee, I'd ask how much they'd put up, they'd say $25, I'd negotiate up, maybe hang up and tell them to call back when I'd get a better deal, etc.
I got it up to $100 plus the $8 switching fee, so they'd switch me, and then stay with them for 2-3 months, until I got another call. It was stupid -- they were paying me. I just had to sit through about 10 minutes on the phone as they had to patch in a 3rd "independent party" that I had to read off some script to.
Silly industry.