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Fewer People Copy DVDs Than Once Thought

MasterOfMagic writes "According to a survey reported at the NY Times, very few people actually have and use DVD copying software. The survey reports that only 1.5 percent of computer users have DVD copying software, and of those 1.5%, 2/3rds of them don't even use it. The survey also revealed that users were more likely to download DVDs than copy DVDs that they borrowed or rented, and that about half of all downloaded DVDs are pornography. According to the survey's lead analyst, 'With music, part of the appeal is sharing your own playlists and compilations with your friends ... I'm not sure people share their porn the way they share their music.'"

333 comments

  1. You Just Wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    With music, part of the appeal is sharing your own playlists and compilations with your friends ... I'm not sure people share their porn the way they share their music. I don't know if that's true. You just wait, once the video Zune comes out, you'll rather sit in silence on the subway than see what people are squirting at you.
  2. Really not surprised by wawannem · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To me, the appeal of a movie is seeing it, not seeing it over and over again. If a friend has a movie I'd like to watch, I'll borrow the DVD, watch the movie and give it back to him. Even the movies I like, I can't see myself copying... Now my kids on the other hand... Put it this way, if I have to watch Monsters, Inc. one more time!!!!

    1. Re:Really not surprised by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, that and DVDs, unlike CDs, are priced decently. You can do a lot of DVD buying and still not go over $10 a piece, whereas you need to shell out $20 easy for a CD. can't believe the RIAA hasn't figured this out yet.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    2. Re:Really not surprised by LordNimon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The cost of a movie is frequently paid (at least, for the most part) when the movie is in the theaters. By the time the DVD is made, there's already been significant revenue to cover the costs. With a CD, however, the only revenue is generated only once the CD is sold.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    3. Re:Really not surprised by Fallingcow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uhh.....

      Concerts?

      Licensing for any and all commercial uses of any tracks from the disc?

      CD sales are far from the only revenues generated by the music on a given CD, especially if it's at all popular.

      Yeah, some artists don't do concerts and aren't popular enough to get any licensing deals, but I don't think that very many of them are with the RIAA anyway...

    4. Re:Really not surprised by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I would agree. Unlike music which we like to listen to all the time movies really get to us adults after a while. Movies contain a story with plot once you know the plot and have seen it each aditional time you usually enjoy it less, unless you wait a good period of time where it is interesting again. With Services like Netflix and Blockbuster ALL in one, it really makes Coping the Movies, storing it paying for blank dvds not really worth it. Because you can just add it to your queue every few months or years.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:Really not surprised by SerpentMage · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You hit it right on the head here. It is amazing a movie that typically costs X million to produce costs about as much as a CD. Somewhere, somebody is not understanding the economics of this. I personally have a huge DVD collection and do watch films multiple times. And I even buy TV Series on DVD, especially since many series missing one or two episodes on TV means you loose a thread. And the last reason why I buy DVD's is because burning or copying a DVD takes AGES! To get a similar quality you have a huge honken file.

      --

      "You can't make a race horse of a pig"
      "No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
    6. Re:Really not surprised by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I think we're missing the point. Why should I use a DVD copying application when the busy beavers in the many "Krews" are doing such a great job of ripping the DVDs and posting them on my favorite trackers? Diamond and Proper come to mind as two of the best.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    7. Re:Really not surprised by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      To me, the appeal of a movie is seeing it, not seeing it over and over again. If a friend has a movie I'd like to watch, I'll borrow the DVD, watch the movie and give it back to him. Even the movies I like, I can't see myself copying...
      But seeing as you have kids (that like to watch Monsters, Inc. repeatedly), I'd expect your friend to loan you a burned copy of the DVD rather than his original.

      The story though seems focused on burning DVDs rather than ripping them. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more ripping than burning. As hard drives get bigger, there's less reason to burn to DVD and more to keeping it on a video server. More hard data on this particular research would be nice.

      Meanwhile the editions you find for rent at Blockbuster and Netflix are increasingly not the same ones you can buy. The feature may be the same content, but the bitrate may be lower, there'll be fewer extras if any, and more advertisements (and less likely to be skippable) included on the disk.

      Personally, I'm more likely to burn stuff recorded from broadcast TV, especially as non-rental DVD releases of TV shows are having more and more omissions. I'm not just talking music rights like with WKRP in Cincinnati or Quantum Leap (Georgia On My Mind), but signature footage like the alien hand over the Earth in the War of the Worlds TV series, the missing recaps of the previous episode from Odyssey 5, and the almost universal omission of trailers for the next episode (The X-Files being an exception--I hate to think what they'll do to Max Headroom). Only animated fare even consider retaining commercial bumpers (Transformers and Robotech for examples).

      Some shows on DVD are even the versions cut for more ad space in syndication, and some movies are released as widescreen and are still not as wide as their theatrical release (Colossus: The Forbin Project, Head Office).

      I have a large paid-for DVD library, mainly because DVDs do go out of print and out of rental circulation, sometimes due to loss of rights (MST3K Vol. 10).
      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    8. Re:Really not surprised by Ironsides · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For most cds (By volume sold, aka pop crap), the labels get money from the discs, not from shows the artists sing (so far as I know). So, taking that into account, the artist doesn't care much about the CDs, just he concerts. The labels care about the CDs, not the concerts, as they don't get money from them, except as extra CDs sold. Then there is the radio revenue, but I don't think that helps much.

      Off hand, I think part of the high cost of music is the shotgun approach labels use. Movie studios tend to be more selective, given the high cost of one now a days.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    9. Re:Really not surprised by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Exactly! Although I usually buy my DVD's at the bargain bin or used. Except for Small guy TV shows like "robot chicken" or "Venture Brothers" or indie films I like, those I pay full price and where I can get them knowing the profit goes to the guys that made it.

      New releases are usually netflixed, watched, then returned never to be rented or even desired to be watched again. Some movies do get purchased and watched over and over. I have every Mel-brooks film made, Yes I even own "Twelve Chairs" the incredibly rare and universally panned as horrid film of his. But then I own every film ever released by http://www.troma.com/ as well. Some are quite bad, but enjoyable after a night of binge drinking or if I'm in a weird mood.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    10. Re:Really not surprised by Ironsides · · Score: 1

      The story though seems focused on burning DVDs rather than ripping them. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more ripping than burning. As hard drives get bigger, there's less reason to burn to DVD and more to keeping it on a video server. More hard data on this particular research would be nice. Cost is still an issue. I have a decently large DVD collection (550+ disks). At an average of 4GB (probably low), per disk, that comes out to 2.2TB (rounding here, people). That's an expensive video server, so I doubt people are just ripping DVDs. They might be shrinking them with DivX, that would help with the space a lot.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    11. Re:Really not surprised by fireman+sam · · Score: 1

      Melvin? Is that you?

      --
      it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
    12. Re:Really not surprised by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The only difference I can see is that the record industry is based on business practices that date back to the early 1900s whereas the movie business has only been selling to consumers since the 1980s. Probably a matter of historical baggage and bloated payment schemes that create the huge price difference.

      --
      It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    13. Re:Really not surprised by Wavicle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, kids are a great example of why I would like to START ripping DVDs.

      I can tune out the 421st showing of Dumbo. But what I have trouble tuning out are the 10 minutes of advertisements that Disney tacks on IN FRONT of Dumbo. There is a 5 second window when I can press a button on the remote to skip the advertisements, if I miss it, I must either watch the advertisements, or eject/inject the disc again and sit through the FBI warning (doesn't hold on all players, one of my players can jump to the root menu after the advertisements start).

      I would really like to rip a copy of Dumbo that starts playing as soon as I put the disc in, removes macrovision and encryption. I'd also like to transcode it to fit on a 4.7GB DVD. Yes, I know it sounds like I want to pirate the movie, but really I just want control over how I watch a movie I legally paid for! (okay, that's a little white lie, my mother bought the kids the Dumbo movie.)

      Can anybody point me at a utility (Linux or Windows, I have both) that does this without me having to baby step it through 5 different utilities and a hundred command line options?

      --
      Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
      Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
    14. Re:Really not surprised by Penguinshit · · Score: 1

      To me, the appeal of a movie is seeing it, not seeing it over and over again.
      Casablanca. Nuff said.
    15. Re:Really not surprised by jameskojiro · · Score: 1

      W00T Go Team Venture!!!!

      I should be seeing my season 2 DVD for VB in a few days, going to have a marathon of VB and have a good time!

      --
      Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
    16. Re:Really not surprised by jZnat · · Score: 3, Informative

      You do know that proper isn't a release group, right? It's a tag for a release of something that was already released by another group, but the group doing the proper feels that the original release wasn't up to par with their standards. To prevent clutter, the first group to release a movie/whatever is the one that gets credit for it, but if it's a shitty release, someone else can step up and take credit for the movie with a proper release.

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
    17. Re:Really not surprised by Amouth · · Score: 1

      honestly if you hunt around you can pick up 500gb SATA drives for 80-110$ each (not crappy opes either) pick up some raid cards or hell use software raid (pick up cards) and the cost comes out to be about 50-75 cents per GB.. so that comes to 2-4$ cost to store ripped dvd's (4-8gb) the cost isnt' that bad.. but hell i am too lazy.. i just buy what i want..

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    18. Re:Really not surprised by Nos. · · Score: 1

      Try DVDFab.

    19. Re:Really not surprised by jojoba_oil · · Score: 1

      While I completely agree with you, I'd also like to point out that one can get foreign music for much cheaper.

      About a month-or-so ago, I ordered 5 music CDs from Bangkok -- my first time ordering music from out-of-country. The website included the cost of shipping for each product as part of the price. In 7 days exactly, I received all 5 CDs together in good condition with decent packaging. And it was all for just under US$25.

      Now granted, the lyrics were in Thai and it's a style of music that I only listen to on occasion (as opposed to daily) but it still impressed me. I've ordered American music online before and: paid extra for shipping, received horribly beat-up packages, received packages much later, etc. All that American "quality" for many multiples of the price. (Keep in mind that American countries are shipping domestically vs. that website shipping across the world)

      I talked to one of my buddies who's lived in Thailand, and when I told him about the music I got he told me that I was ripped off horribly -- buying music locally there is (the baht equivalent of) about US$2. Whatever the case, if I'm not paying the MAFIAA as well as getting damn-cheap music, I'm going to continue exploring foreign countries to get "ripped off" when I purchase music.

      Anyone have a good site for European music?

    20. Re:Really not surprised by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      And the last reason why I buy DVD's is because burning or copying a DVD takes AGES! To get a similar quality you have a huge honken file.
      When downconverting your HD MPEG-2 transport stream captured from a Firewire-enabled cable box to a size and aspect suitable for editing before burning to DVD, it isn't generally worth it to use DVCPRO50 encoding. DV25 is a lot easier to deal with (smaller file size, less overhead) and good enough for editing of homebrewed disks.

      I also have a large collection of purchased DVDs, movies and TV series (the latter being the lion's share). I buy Atlantic Penguin 644CD racks (holds 360 DVDs) in pairs and join them together for another 180 DVDs-worth of storage, only having to cut a few extra all-thread screws from stock with a Dremel. Right now I have enough storage for 2700 DVDs on three walls behind the TV in Atlantic Penguin racks alone, plus another 360 in Atlantic Elf racks (longer tubes, half the height).

      I have planned to burn entire seasons to box sets myself, but have abandoned it when the box set came out first. And if I had burned them first, I would still have bought the box set when/if it came out. As it stands, my collection has no backups.
      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    21. Re:Really not surprised by purpledinoz · · Score: 1

      The way people use video is fundamentally different than music. Like you mentioned, people (generally) don't watch movies multiple times (more than 2). Whereas music, people tend to listen to it repeatedly. One reason I can think of is that a movie requires your full attention. With music, you can just listen to it and do other things. Plus, most of the movies that Holleywood manages to put together are crap. Who wants to be caught with a DVD copy of Gigli?

    22. Re:Really not surprised by DevNull+Ogre · · Score: 1

      Can anybody point me at a utility (Linux or Windows, I have both) that does this without me having to baby step it through 5 different utilities and a hundred command line options?
      Try dvd9to5 - it's a handy perl script that takes care of all the individual steps. Here's the Gentoo HOWTO for it. If you don't use Gentoo, it's pretty easy to Google the script. (Not sure how involved it might be to install all the tools it calls - Gentoo manages all that for me.)
    23. Re:Really not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're smart. I like you.

    24. Re:Really not surprised by radish · · Score: 1

      You must buy different stuff than me. Most of the DVDs I'm interested run $18-20 and most of the CDs I buy are closer to $10. Plus I'll listen to a good CD hundreds of times, even the best movie will only get watched a few times. Don't get me wrong, I have a decent collection of both, but CDs are a much easier purchase to justify to myself than DVDs - hence netflix.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    25. Re:Really not surprised by noidentity · · Score: 1

      And with kids you want the original in a safe place so you can make another copy when the first copy is scratched beyond recognition. I just rent DVDs from the locally-owned video store. Only about 1 in 50 movies I ever watch again years later. I tried buying a few DVDs years ago but just don't want to watch them again. With all the new movies out there, there's little reason to re-watch. Now with music, it's different, since one can listen to it all day, and enjoy hearing the same song many times. I still don't grasp why people have 100+ DVD collections.

    26. Re:Really not surprised by LordNimon · · Score: 1

      Concerts and track licensing usually occur after the CD has been released. This is the point I'm trying to make - the release of the CD is almost always the first time that music is introduced to the public, and so it is the primary source of revenue for the band.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    27. Re:Really not surprised by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Part of the problem with a large RAID though is making sure you have a power supply that can handle that many drives and cards, as well as a case with enough drive bays and sufficient cooling. And paying for the power to feed it too, especially if it is always on.

      Then there's the extra storage for redundancy so that if one drive fails (typically one containing critical file-system data) you don't lose your whole collection. You're probably not wanting to take that setup to a data recovery company that may report you to the MPAA if you can't prove you invented your own DVD copying software independently (the DMCA loophole).

      Then there's the question of how long do you grow a RAID with more drives before migrating it to a new set using larger drives before it becomes an onerous financial burden?

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    28. Re:Really not surprised by just_another_sean · · Score: 1

      Well that just seems to support the argument that perhaps musicians should seek a substantial part of their revenue by actually playing music, not just for a few weeks in a studio, on stage for a few hundred days a year. A lot of the bands I listen to do just that. Some get rich, some don't but they all make a living doing something they love. Seems like a sweet deal to me...

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    29. Re:Really not surprised by UltimateRobotLover · · Score: 1

      Put that movie back where it came from or so help me...

    30. Re:Really not surprised by shark72 · · Score: 1

      "Well, that and DVDs, unlike CDs, are priced decently. You can do a lot of DVD buying and still not go over $10 a piece, whereas you need to shell out $20 easy for a CD. can't believe the RIAA hasn't figured this out yet."

      Where do you buy your CDs? I live on the west coast, and they are $12 - $14. CD prices started freefalling about five years ago and the average price was $13 and change for a new release in 2004; I think they've stabilized since then but I highly doubt that they've crept back up to $20 at retail.

      Taking a look at Amazon, nine of today's top sellers are going for $9.99, with the exception being $11.99. Scrolling through their top 50, I can find only a couple which peak at $14.99, notably TMBG's latest.

      If you're living somewhere where CDs really are $20, I truly feel your pain, but you must understand: your local stores are gouging you. Record companies sell to distributors and retailers at fixed prices; if your local store is marking up CDs by another 50%, it is they you should be upset with; not the RIAA.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    31. Re:Really not surprised by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      On the other hand ... what are the production costs of a typical CD vs. an average motion picture? Orders of magnitude difference. The RIAA's member companies could afford to take a lot less per disc and make a profit (maybe not as much profit as they are accustomed to receiving, but that's not my problem.)

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    32. Re:Really not surprised by Xeth · · Score: 1

      Uh, except that the music was already paid for and written for the movie, and the only costs associated solely with the CD are the cover art and publishing (which, today, should not amount to all that much). The movie itself does about all the promoting you need.

      --
      If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
    33. Re:Really not surprised by shark72 · · Score: 5, Informative

      "You hit it right on the head here. It is amazing a movie that typically costs X million to produce costs about as much as a CD. Somewhere, somebody is not understanding the economics of this."

      I'm sorry to say that it is you. But, take heart -- you're not the first person to miss this point, by far.

      This boggles a lot of people who haven't studied much economics or who don't work in the retail industry, but items are typically priced according to the law of supply and demand, and not the cost of sale. Consider these examples:

      • Kenneth Cole pays about the same price for materials for a shirt or a pair of shoes as Sears does, and their costs of production are about the same. Yet Kenneth Cole is able to sell shirts for $150.00, while Sears would be likely to get $40 for a shirt with the same material cost. This is because Kenneth Cole sells a shirt for the price they can get for it.
      • An iPhone costs something like $500, and requires two years of service. It's not a good value at all considering what else you can get for the money. The cost of the materials in the iPhone isn't much different than many phones and PDAs, and even the R&D cost isn't too far out of line with that of other, far cheaper, electronics goods. Yet people were literally lining up overnight to buy them!
      • You might know somebody who makes a pretty good living. His actual cost of living might be $60K a year, but since he's worked hard at his craft -- gone to school, or just gained experience -- he's in higher demand and thus he earns a salary that's considerably higher than $60K. If he had set his "price" according to his cost of living, he would be missing out on all that money. He is the supply, the employers have the demand.

      I hope this helps you understand the economics of how DVDs are priced. In case it isn't clear, they're set at the price they are because that's the price at which the movie companies make the most money overall. If they sold them for more, they might make more per sale, but the reduction in the amount of people who buy them might be too much to make it worth it. Likewise, if they lowered the price, they might get more sales, but not enough to offset the lost money per sale.

      You expressed surprise at the difference in price between a DVD and a CD. You appear to be surprised since they use the same materials (plastic and metal) and have a similar manufacturing process. But, keep in mind that software is also distributed on CD and has pricing that's all over the board. Why does some software cost $9.99 while other software can command a price of $500, even though both are distributed on the same medium? The answer is our old friend supply and demand.

      You've probably noticed that all DVDs cost about $10 - $20, despite the fact that their production costs are all over the board. Indy films that cost $20MM to make often cost the very same on DVD as films costing $100MM or more. Evan Almighty cost around $175MM to make, but when it goes on sale on DVD, you can be sure that you'll see it on the shelf for $20 or so next to films that cost around the same price. At the point of being redundant, this is again because the DVD is priced at the optimal point on the supply/demand curve -- and not based on the cost of the plastics or even the production costs.

      I hope this helps you understand the economics. Let me know if it's unclear.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    34. Re:Really not surprised by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      your local stores are gouging you

      Is it really my job as the consumer to figure out exactly who's screwing me? Regardless of that, it's still an indictement of a system that would let such anti-competitive scenarios arise, and in the end, this is all this debate is about. Trying to hunt and peck at individuals is pointless when the whole thing's corrupted.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    35. Re:Really not surprised by greetings+programs · · Score: 1

      I think your point is right but... There's simply no way an album production costs as much as any hollowood movie, and the fact that DVD's retail for half as much as CD's is absurd. What we are paying for here is what I would like to call the "MTV tax". That is, all the promotion money that is needed to position a bunch of untalented, tone-deaf pricks on radio and TV play, ultraslick musical productions with lots of hired guns, production of stupidly lavish videos, payola, lots and lots of marketing. Left to their own devices, 90% of the artists you find in the music store would be begging in the street. And really talented people has been trying to fight their way out this machinery for years, but they are not deemed "cool enough" by some random "talent seekers". Kudos for "The Artist Formerly Known as Prince" (though I still hate his music) and some others for pissing those bastards off a bit. We need more of that, and we need to get rid of MTV and co. For the first time, independent artists can reach a broader audience cheaply and democratically, and it seems logical that the music industry as we know it will became less and less relevant, but not without giving a tough fight.

      --
      Greetings, programs!
    36. Re:Really not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, where are these $20 CDs so I can buy one? I've never seen a domestically produced CD for $20 or more that wasn't a double CD.

    37. Re:Really not surprised by shark72 · · Score: 1

      "Is it really my job as the consumer to figure out exactly who's screwing me?"

      It's in your own best interest. Now that you know that you've been shopping at the wrong places, you'll be able to save a lot on music purchases. If the record companies were selling CDs into the channel for about $15, then you'd be hosed -- you'd pay $18 - $20 no matter where you shop. But they actually sell for $8 - $10. Armed with that info, you can take the time to shop around. Seriously, dude -- try Amazon.

      "Regardless of that, it's still an indictement of a system that would let such anti-competitive scenarios arise, and in the end, this is all this debate is about."

      The record industry is hugely competitive. There are four or five big companies which make most of the money and maybe about 1,000 indie labels in the US that fight for the rest, but you can be assured that Sony and BMG would be happy to put each other out of business. If you mean that it's anti-competitive at the retail level, I am not sure that I agree, either. I sell computer peripherals to many of the same retailers that also sell music -- Amazon, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc. -- and I could tell you stories. It's quite cutthroat.

      "Trying to hunt and peck at individuals is pointless when the whole thing's corrupted."

      I was not clear enough in my original post. I asked where you are shopping if you are paying $20 for a CD, and I pointed out that those prices are way out of line with what most of of the rest of us are paying.

      Where are you shopping for CDs where prices are typically $20? Thanks in advance.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    38. Re:Really not surprised by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Man, my daughter (6 yr old) doesn't like Monsters, but Shrek 1; Aaaaugh!

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    39. Re:Really not surprised by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      I think you're confusing the profits of the artists with the profits of the labels.

      AFAIK, Labels take the money from the CDs, and the artists take the money from everything else.

      In an ideal world, this situation would be a bit more equitable, but alas, it is not.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    40. Re:Really not surprised by Karzz1 · · Score: 1

      Is it really my job as the consumer to figure out exactly who's screwing me?

      If it is not your job, whose is it?

      --
      Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
    41. Re:Really not surprised by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      *Drools on keyboard*, um nope, still not getting it.. are you trying to tell me that the the manufacturing "supply" of raw materials is what sets the price for goods?

      Or is it the costs of those materials? i saw you said demand a few times.. if the manufacturer demands materials more will the cost go down or up?

    42. Re:Really not surprised by Grym · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At the point of being redundant, this is again because the DVD is priced at the optimal point on the supply/demand curve -- and not based on the cost of the plastics or even the production costs.

      Okay... so when people stop buying CDs in droves (often while citing the price of CDs relative to other goods in their lives), what does that have to say about the location of the current price of CDs on their supply-demand curve?

      -Grym

    43. Re:Really not surprised by abradsn · · Score: 1

      I find the implication here rather appalling. Basically, you are saying that once costs are covered, then it is ok to steal the end product.

      ie.) Once the auto manufacturer's make back their investment and cost of materials, then all cars of that type should be free.

      ie.) Once that store owner makes his initial investment back, the rest of the stuff in the store should be free for the remainder of the year.

      The problem here is that there are all kinds of costs, and failures that come before a success. Those need to be covered too. I hate it when people imply that digital and intellectual work is so valueless that they feel entitled to copy it for their own purposes. (If you paid for your copy, then copy it to whatever you want. Just don't give it to all your friends.)

      For all the ignorant people out there, I hope that you personally gain perspective on what this kind of theft feels like.

    44. Re:Really not surprised by Your+Pal+Dave · · Score: 1

      True, but this matters little to the guy standing in Wal-Mart trying to figure out how to spend the $20 in disposable income he has left from his paycheck. This box-office subsidy just makes the DVD a better value than the CD for him. The record companies' business model weaknesses are not his concern.

    45. Re:Really not surprised by shark72 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Okay... so when people stop buying CDs in droves (often while citing the price of CDs relative to other goods in their lives), what does that have to say about the location of the current price of CDs on their supply-demand curve?"

      CD prices go into freefall. The average price of a new CD was about $20 ten years ago. Then P2P exploded. By 2004, the average price of a new CD was about $13.50. Then online venues like the iTunes store and became more viable (my personal reason for not buying CDs any more) and now it's quite easy to find new releases for $11. Most of the CDs on Amazon's best-seller lists are $9.99.

      That $20 we were paying for CDs in 1997 is almost 25 bucks today's money. This means CD prices have fallen by more than half. Ain't the demand curve great?

      I don't think CDs are going to fall much below $11 or so... their share of the market vs. online sales will continue to wither away to a core group of consumers who seek out a physical medium, but I don't think we'll see the record companies will chase it down much further.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    46. Re:Really not surprised by shark72 · · Score: 1

      "*Drools on keyboard*, um nope, still not getting it.. are you trying to tell me that the the manufacturing "supply" of raw materials is what sets the price for goods? Or is it the costs of those materials? i saw you said demand a few times.. if the manufacturer demands materials more will the cost go down or up?"

      Sorry, I was unclear in using the phrase "supply and demand" as that invokes images of a commodity like oil.

      I think we were talking about DVDs here, right? The cost of DVDs is based much more on the demand curve than the production costs (including costs of materials). This is where the GGP was getting off the beam, comparing production costs to retail prices... intuitively one might make that correlation, but there are so many other factors that it's pretty much irrelevant. If I'm being unclear, take another look at the last point I made... a $10MM indie film and a $200MM blockbuster will end up having similar retail prices when they're released to DVD.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    47. Re:Really not surprised by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      Then there is the radio revenue, but I don't think that helps much.

      Actually, I don't think there is any radio revenue in the US, at least not from terrestrial radio, due to some law in the late 30's. The RIAA is trying to get radio revenue, but I don't think that has any chance of happening, because NAB has a significant lobbying force too.

      Here's a source:
      http://tinyurl.com/yr484e

    48. Re:Really not surprised by mahlerfan999 · · Score: 1

      To me, the appeal of a movie is seeing it, not seeing it over and over again. If a friend has a movie I'd like to watch, I'll borrow the DVD, watch the movie and give it back to him. Even the movies I like, I can't see myself copying... I agree, most movies I only want to see once. Combine that with how affordable Netflix is, those rental boxes in the grocery stores, the instore Hollywood and Blockbuster plans etc etc... rental prices are usually $1-1.50 per dvd no matter where you go. So why copy a dvd when it's so cheap to see it these days? And if you do want to watch a movie over and over again, most dvds you can buy used for $4-10 off of Amazon, if you really want to own it.
    49. Re:Really not surprised by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Thanks for clearing that up for me. I see the "Proper" tag on the end of (usually very good) releases and always thought it was a group. The kids these days and their wacky names - it's hard for an old-timer like me to keep up. But it seems like a good approach, one group fixing the flawed release of another. It's good to know that competition has some positive influence on the distribution of media.

      I'm not sure exactly how my post above was off-topic, though. The article was about why not that many people are copying DVDs and I voiced the opinion that there's no reason to copy a DVD because someone who knows what they're doing has already done the heavy lifting. I guess I didn't make my point clearly enough for everyone.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    50. Re:Really not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't really need raid, if you have a problem, you still have the original dvd as a backup. Though it can be time consuming. The way i've gotten around this is to mount drives as folders i.e. A-F drive 0, G-L drive 1, M-P Drive 2, and then the directory is /bitbuckets/movies/a /bitbuckets/movies/b /bitbuckets/movies/c /bitbuckets/music/a etc. Then when a drive goes out, you only have to restore those files that were on their. Only had to do this once in 4 years, though i keep replacing smaller drives with bigger ones, since you always need more space.

    51. Re:Really not surprised by dryeo · · Score: 1

      I don't know about that. All the CDs I've looked to purchase lately made one hell of a lot of revenue as records. Things like the Beatles, Pink Floyd, The Doors etc.
      I buy old movies on DVD for under $10, sometimes $2.99. Old music seems to be priced about the same as new.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    52. Re:Really not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If anything about the RIAA/MPAA's loss of revenue were true then we wouldnt be hearing about their strife anymore because they wouldnt have the money to buy off every government on the planet, while buying a significant percentage of airtime on television and throwing up billboards all over. The fact that they are still so loud is damned good proof as any that they are still rolling in money. They need to adapt, their business model is like a hundred years old and this isnt the same world that used Vinyls. What's worse is their reaction to their percieved loss of revenue. They are still reporting profits from their industries, but are blaming pirating for decreasing their perceived profits. Their reaction has been to accuse ALL of their customers of pirating, which no one likes being accused of because the old penalty was to be hung from the gallows at dawn. You pay for a movie at a movie theatre, or you buy a CD - and the movie starts up and an ad plays calling everyone in the theatre a pirate, when obviously they are still supporting the industry because they are already In The Theatre, or printed on the CD is some bullshit equivilant. People dont like ads, so not only are you accusing your customers of something they are clearly not, or are at least not doing right then, but you are also wasting all their time, because either they are not pirates - or they support this product enough to pay for it in the most overpriced fashion possible (a theatre, or buying a CD at release, or buying $60 t-shirts at a concert). They need to radically redefine their business model, and then they would go back to being the corporate fat cats they always were (and still are).

      First off, understand that not all pirated music would have been legitimately purchased otherwise. That's huge, because honestly, if someone has 40 gigs of music on their HD, that doesnt mean they would have bought like 400 albums in real life, they are just downloading whole band discographies because they can thanks to the internet. They might have bought one album (probably the newest, or the one they heard a song from and liked), but to expect them to have gone out and bought 10 albums of a band they liked one song from is absurd.

      Secondly, CD stores are a waste of time for many of us, decrease their number (which will decrease their cost of running them at loss), and move into the online world. Pull together a cartel as you had before on CD's, though you may have to grandfather certain new companies that moved in during your failure to act, such as iTunes Music Store (pull them into your little government sanctioned cartel). Cut off all other competition (since for some reason you are allowed to do this legally), so that anyone who wants music has to go through you).

      Thirdly, you need to make it sound easy and cheap to get music legitimately, you also need that to be true. So make a system that is easy, and cheap, to distribute music to the customers - much like iTunes. The success of iTunes is a reflection of their better business model, and that they thrive despite piracy is because they are offering people a legitimate alternative at only a small cost, while providing a more cohesive music experience (no dealing with bittorrent or irc and extracting zip's and rar's and then sorting them into WinAmp Playlists, their program does it all for you.

      Fourthly, stop calling your customers pirates - it annoys your customers to be wrongfully accused of crimes they are obviously not committing merely by the fact that they see the ad you place (ie. place them in different spots with penetration into the pirate community, not the customer database). Meanwhile, every actual pirate takes pride in the term, and are getting delusions-of-freaking-awesomeness, because pirates are freaking awesome! Yarrrr!

      Fifthly, stop buying off governments at great expense, stop trying to attack your customers through sideways taxes on related media like CD-R's as well (and I dont mean just taxes on CD-R's, stop all sideways attacks on customers). Get your act together, build a modern business model, ENACT it, then you will see the return to your ancient glory your so adamant on telling us all about.

    53. Re:Really not surprised by glitch23 · · Score: 0

      And the last reason why I buy DVD's is because burning or copying a DVD takes AGES! To get a similar quality you have a huge honken file.

      You must be doing something wrong or your definition of "ages" is different than mine. Obviously you are exaggerating to begin with but maybe you are exaggerating a lot. One word: DVDShrink. You can copy, shrink, and burn a new dvd in under 2 hours, possibly under 1 depending on the movie length and how fast your computer is. I just let other people do the legwork anyway so I don't even rent dvds. I download them from newsgroups.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    54. Re:Really not surprised by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Check out k9copy. I'm pretty sure it's in the ubuntu repositories.

    55. Re:Really not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You expressed surprise at the difference in price between a DVD and a CD. You appear to be surprised since they use the same materials (plastic and metal) and have a similar manufacturing process. But, keep in mind that software is also distributed on CD and has pricing that's all over the board. Why does some software cost $9.99 while other software can command a price of $500, even though both are distributed on the same medium? The answer is our old friend supply and demand.
      yeah, ok then. so pricing is about supply and demand. so high pricing must mean high demand? but arent the music industry constantly complaining about decreased sales? ie. demand is dropping, yet the prices do not... also, supply is virtually unlimited. if they need more physical copies to sell it costs them very little to get them pressed, just like dvds... again indicating prices should be low. seems you wrote a big spiel from a textbook without thinking very hard about how it applies to whats really happening. cd's are the perfect example of an industry ignoring supply and demand
    56. Re:Really not surprised by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's interesting that you talk about supply and demand, but the supply side is hardly mentioned. Once the music is recorded, the record companies can make as many copies as they like, and each additional copy probably costs them less than one dollar. So the supply is potentially enormous. By raising the prices high, they produce the same effect as a limited supply would cause, but there's nothing about the supply that is inherently limited.

      This is where competition is supposed to help out. Some smart person should start a company that does less marketing, simple good quality recordings, and standard CD packaging, then sell the discs for $5. They could pay about $1 per CD to the artists, $1 for manufacturing and distribution, $1 on average for recording and production, $1 for company salaries and expenses, and $1 profit. Assuming they could get some big names on board, they should create quite a stir and make some good money undercutting the other companies and their artificial markups.

      Unfortunately, the few big music corporations seem to have a stranglehold on the business, and they know better than to start a price war with each other. The status quo makes them all more profitable. It's a bit like OPEC, just done unofficially because it would be illegal to make it official.

    57. Re:Really not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      For most cds (By volume sold, aka pop crap), the labels get money from the discs, not from shows the artists sing

      So where's the contradiction? You make no mention of the shows the artists don't sing, ie. all of them.

    58. Re:Really not surprised by HardCorePawn · · Score: 1

      Exactly! Although I usually buy my DVD's at the bargain bin or used. Except for Small guy TV shows like "robot chicken" or "Venture Brothers" or indie films I like, those I pay full price and where I can get them knowing the profit goes to the guys that made it.

      Not wanting to belittle your attempt to support Indies... but I would have thought that it made no difference to the Indie what price you paid. Its not like the store takes your $20 and says "X% for me, X% for [insert indie here]"...

      I thought the Indie outfit will get their money when the store 'buys' it from the distributor and the distributor gives them their cut...

    59. Re:Really not surprised by Wavicle · · Score: 1

      Is DVDFab a commercial product?

      I found a program called DVD Shrink that is free and seems pretty nice. Automatically parses the disc and even lets you remaster so that it only contains the shows you want. I mean, I think it does that. It can't legally be downloaded in the US so, of course, I didn't download. But it was pretty nice. I could have gotten Dumbo ripped to a DVD5 in 15 minutes, assuming I had downloaded it... which, of course, I hadn't, because that would be illegal in the US.

      Is DVD Fab free as well, or is it a commercial product?

      --
      Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
      Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
    60. Re:Really not surprised by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I voiced the opinion that there's no reason to copy a DVD because someone who knows what they're doing has already done the heavy lifting.

      What "heavy lifting" is involved in copying DVDs?

      You just put the original DVD in the drive, rip it, put a blank DVD in, and burn it. It's a much bigger pain in the ass to look for it online and download it, and then you have to worry about finding the "good" copy, which isn't an issue if you do it yourself.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    61. Re:Really not surprised by dabraun · · Score: 1

      Well, that and DVDs, unlike CDs, are priced decently. You can do a lot of DVD buying and still not go over $10 a piece, whereas you need to shell out $20 easy for a CD. can't believe the RIAA hasn't figured this out yet.

      Ok, well first of all in my experience the average price for a DVD of a movie I like is a few dollars higher than the average price for a CD I like (and I don't think my tastes for either are terribly strange).

      Leaving that completely aside, I don't think DVDs are priced reasonably at all given their intrinsic value. Every CD that I enjoy has significan replay value. Very, very few movies I've seen have any replay value (kids movies aside, kids seem to be willing to watch the same thing over and over and over and over). A good CD provides perhaps 100 hours of entertainment, and that entertainment can be enjoyed on it's own or in conjunction with other activities (work, running, etc). A good movie still provides about 2 hours of entertainment - there are very few movies I've watched more than once, mostly because watching a movie is a 100% attention task and for that I expect to see something I haven't seen before. The real question is 'what is it worth to the average consumer' not 'what did it cost to make'.

      All good mainstream movies and musicians (and/or their publishers) make a very significant profit so this isn't a matter of pricing to cover your costs, it's a matter of pricing for maximum profits. I'll start buying movies when they cost about the same as a movie ticket (let's say $7 - $9), that's about what they are worth to me - I might pay more than that for just released (as in just released in theaters) movies since I could watch them with friends and as long as the per-person cost is comprable to watching the movie in a theater that's worth it to me.
    62. Re:Really not surprised by dangitman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And the last reason why I buy DVD's is because burning or copying a DVD takes AGES!

      I guess if you consider 20 minutes to be "ages." I don't - because it's a background task. It only takes a couple of minutes of actual human interaction. The rest of the time you can do something else.

      But buying DVDs sucks, because they often have those unskippable anti-piracy ads and FBI warnings at the start. By making a copy, I can eliminate those and other navigational restraints from the DVD. It's quite amazing really - the copy is actually a better product than the original! I always find this hilarious - because the anti-piracy ads on DVDs actually encourage me to copy because I can get rid of them that way. Buy the commercial DVD, and you are stuck with that crap.

      To get a similar quality you have a huge honken file.

      Similar quality? No, I get the exact same quality. It's a bit-for-bit copy. And why would I worry about the size of the file? I store it on a blank DVD, it's not taking up space on my hard drive.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    63. Re:Really not surprised by bronney · · Score: 1
    64. Re:Really not surprised by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Some smart person should start a company that does less marketing, simple good quality recordings, and standard CD packaging, then sell the discs for $5.

      But why buy that instead of downloading? The only justification I usually hear for buying physical CDs is "the packaging" or "the cover art." Take away the shiny, and there's no reason to buy on a physical CD at all.

      Also, you mention marketing. That's one of the main things that inspires people to buy music CDs. Without the marketing, you don't get many sales.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    65. Re:Really not surprised by loraksus · · Score: 1

      AnyDVD runs in the background and has an option to strip that shit out. Also kills pretty much every video protection out there. Install, leave running and never touch it again.
      Combine it w/ DVD Shrink or whatever your favorite ripping app is, and you've got your solution.
      You can also re-author in DVD shrink and just get the movie stream - sounds like you don't care about the dvd extras in Dumbo and just ripping the movie usually puts you under the 4.7 gb limit.
      AnyDVD does have a DVD ripper, but the DVD Shrink one gives you a bit more control.

      Once you have the vobs, burn copies and let your hellspawns scratch the hell out of them on the wood floor, feed them to the dog or dunk them in the toilet.

      Windows only, but simple.

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    66. Re:Really not surprised by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      Can anybody point me at a utility (Linux or Windows, I have both) that does this without me having to baby step it through 5 different utilities and a hundred command line options?

      1. Use DVD Decrypter (last available version was 3.5.4.0 - MAFIAA tried to kill them but you can still Google it, the name of the file is SetupDVDDecrypter_3.5.4.0.exe and the size is 879 KB) to rip the VOB files, stripping macrovision, region coding, and encryption (of course). There are other more advanced options too but ripping the VOB files to a directory on your HDD will be enough for the next step.

      2. Use DVD Shrink to cut out all of the stuff you don't want to burn onto your copy disc (i.e. other languages, commentary tracks, advertisements, FBI warning, etc). Burn your copy (sans junk, no macrovision or encryption and region free) and save an image of the project or burn yourself a second backup so that you can dupe the DVD again, without having to go through step 1 and most of 2 again using the original store bought DVD, when your kids destroy the copy DVD for the Nth time and you have to burn them another one.

      There are manuals with the software or you can check out Doom9 for detailed FAQs, How-To, and Walkthroughs. Good luck.

    67. Re:Really not surprised by borizz · · Score: 2, Informative

      In the Netherlands, a CD is 20 euro. That's about 25 dollars. Even for CD's that were released in 1995. Popular, non-popular, doesn't matter.

      I live about 10 miles from the German border. If I get in the car and buy the same album in Germany, I pay 11 euros.

      And then the Dutch RIAA-look-a-like complains that we collectively almost stopped buying CDs. Well, no shit sherlock.

    68. Re:Really not surprised by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      What "heavy lifting" is involved in copying DVDs?
      Your assignment is to write a 250 word essay on the meaning of sarcasm.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    69. Re:Really not surprised by redtux1 · · Score: 1

      Try my app http://www.redtux.org.uk/cgi-bin/burn_360.pl

      Instructions for install are in README

    70. Re:Really not surprised by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      I think you've missed part of the point. The point is not that it's okay to "steal" a product, but that there is a feeling of being cheated on the part of the consumer which drives people to make copies of a work they should pay for. They feel justified because - unlike just about every other industry they come in contact with - the primary reason for the price is the monopoly the content holders have. They can make the discs $1000, without retribution or fear of competition - there is no alternative vendor for Dido.

      In a civilized society, we (the general populace) expect that the price of the goods has a relationship to the cost of production. That means the cost of all of the production - including reasonable overhead, product development, and recurring costs. CDs don't appear to be priced that way, and the consumers resent it. Since there is no legitimate competition, an illigtimate market has emerged.

      There will always be those who are in it just to get around the system, but the vast majority of those who copy music do it because the cost of the product has been set artificially high. Based on what we (think we) know about the industry, we're the ones getting robbed every time we go to a music store.

      For what it's worth I happen to work in an IP field, and my works are protected by copyright.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    71. Re:Really not surprised by frission · · Score: 1

      I think the cost of producing a CD is far less than that of producing a movie...

    72. Re:Really not surprised by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Yes it does.

      Buy from a store = indie get's a small cut. Buy it from the Indie's own website = they get 100% of the profit.
      Seek out the indie's own website, buy it from there or ask them via email, Can I buy the movie directly from you?

      troma films is a great example. You can buy the toxic avenger in the stores for $9.95, troma get's about $1.00 from each sold. Buy that DVD from their website and they get every dollar above their cost.

      They get more money, simple solution.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    73. Re:Really not surprised by arkhan_jg · · Score: 1

      Probably the best ripper on linux is DVD::rip - it should be in your distro repository.

      On windows, I like Nero recode - comes with Nero Burning Rom (commercial) - lets you shrink DVD9 to DVD5 and choose which tracks you want, or to mpeg4 or H.264 if you want to store on a media pc.

      The best free windows one IMO is dvd shrink - a bit less point-and-clicky, but still pretty simple. Yes, you can get technically better results with the proper multi-pass CCE rippers; but for most purposes the point-and-click recoders do a plenty good enough job, and they're much, much faster.

      Oh, if you get a DVD these guys can't handle due to braindead copy protection, usually DVD Fab free or DVD decrypter (if you can find a copy on say, mrbass.org, it is technically illegal to distribute since it was acquired and shut down by macrovision) can remove the copy protection and save it as files, then you run dvd shrink on the files to get it down to a DVD5.

      Good luck!

      --
      Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
    74. Re:Really not surprised by mcbiondi · · Score: 1

      Huh? You're forgetting the people selling movies are in it for the profit. It is a business. There's no maximum on this game. They aren't trying to break even, they are going for all they can get. They have investors to pay back, and also want to pocket something for all the effort put in (just like anyone else would). DVD's are a separate revenue stream in and of themselves, as are market add ons, books, action figures, and whatever else can be dreamed up. The reason they sell for $10 as opposed to more is that's the price that works the best.

    75. Re:Really not surprised by Eccles · · Score: 1

      Why not just buy externals? Speed isn't an issue playing DVD data, and you can just add drives as needed. They aren't much more expensive than bare drives, and a lot cheaper than any RAID I know of.

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
    76. Re:Really not surprised by amper · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you believe that the RIAA and MPAA don't understand this, then you don't understand so many things about basic economics and human behavior that it's almost a complete waste of time to mention the fact.

      People don't use movie products in the same way that they use music products. Of course CD's cost the consumer more! Haven't you noticed the fact that in recent years, most popular movies and television shows have practically become advertisements for recordings that the studios want to push? What do you think they make more money from?

      Even those of us who are die hard video collectors rarely watch any individual program or feature more than a handful of times (never mind the fact that my two year old is now obsessed with "Kiki's Delivery Service" and is doing her best to wear out the tape with repeated viewings), yet will continue to play songs from even decades ago time and again.

    77. Re:Really not surprised by Bob+Uhl · · Score: 1

      I think I only own three DVDs, bought back when I was still in VCR-mode. But with Netflix (or whatever comparable service you prefer), why do I need to buy DVDs at all? You make exactly the point: I watch a film, then don't really watch it again. If I do want to see it again, I can always toss it in my queue again, which is still cheaper than buying it.

    78. Re:Really not surprised by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 1

      That is pretty much the direction that I'm rowing in. Most movies that come into my place now never even see the inside of the dvd player. Most of them go right in to the dvd rom on the computer where I rip the main movie off. Delete the shit that I don't want, extra audio tracks in languages that I have no hope of ever learning. Then I feed it to x264 and convert it to a mkv file. It's stuck out on the server where it takes up about a gb of space more or less. Then I call it up and watch it on the htpc when ever I want to.

      Most of the time the orginal goes up on a shelf never to be touched again. What I've found out is storing movies on a server is more convent and cheaper than buying a multi dvd changer. A good 300 DVD changer will set you back about 600-900 bucks. 500 GB of storage space in a mirror set will cost you about 300 bucks and should store about 400 or more movies in DVD quality if done right.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    79. Re:Really not surprised by ak3ldama · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I actually wish Amazon would just sell $30 or $40 boxed sets with complete collections of artists (perhaps with premiums if it included recent releases). It would be great to just buy straight up the whole collection of a band. Especially lesser known stuff like Testament, Exodus, Overkill (to single out a genre like Thrash metal.) Or to move to something different, consider that the first few Garth Brooks albums are not available brand new from Amazon.com!? The first few were Garth's best work, but you have to buy them threw the used channels.

      I think if there were metrics available (which the Overlords of the Internet don't allow to be studied) the industry would have more information on how to actually reach their customers. This is why most bands love it that people are downloading their music, because its the best way to reach the people. Radio and conventional sales channels have failed. These metrics would also probably also provide proof that the music currently released isn't what people want.

      --
      "but money is the God of Algiers & Mahomet their prophet." - Rich. O'Bryen June 8th 1786
    80. Re:Really not surprised by mgblst · · Score: 1

      At least with CDs, you can just play the thing, without having to sit through some anti-piracy and stupid menu. When I watch a movie, I want the thing to just start playing, not all the bullshit!

    81. Re:Really not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you weren't deprived of your copy, it's not theft.

      If we could replicate cars, food, etc. then yes, they should be free. Artificial scarcity is evil, a slight against the human race.

    82. Re:Really not surprised by Atroxodisse · · Score: 1

      While what you say is a basic rule of economics, it is not the only factor. The cost of producing the product is definitely factored into the price. Obviously, Adobe charges more for Photoshop not simply because they can get $900 for their software, but because the cost of developing such a complicated software is higher than making most video games. They know basically, based on their past sales, how many units they'll move and they need to recoup their cost of development. Pricing is also affected by other factors. For example, Walmart sells it's new release DVDs under cost because they know people will come into the store to buy DVDs and then end up buying half a dozen other things that they need on which Walmart can make a large profit. This isn't really a supply and demand thing.

      --
      Read my short stories - You won't regret it.
    83. Re:Really not surprised by bickle · · Score: 1

      I have no idea where that $20 average came from. If we use the list price (which was almost always much higher than what anyone actually paid), some of the higher priced titles would come in around $18.98. But the average price paid was much closer to $14.

      I can remember paying closer to $19 back in 1987 when CD's were still relatively new. But not in 1997.

    84. Re:Really not surprised by dadioflex · · Score: 1

      And maybe google ripit4me to find out about a wizard-based all in one solution to using DVD Decrypter and DVD Shrink for discs with modern protection methods. I think ripit4me-AIO is the total package that has everything you need but it's elusive.

    85. Re:Really not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're probably not wanting to take that setup to a data recovery company that may report you to the MPAA if you can't prove you invented your own DVD copying software independently (the DMCA loophole).

      Come on, don't be quite so paranoid. I bet no data recovery company has ever reported anybody to anyone about anything, apart from kiddie porn or (possibly) bomb making manuals reported to the police. You are their customer, you are paying them, they have no easy way to determine how content was obtained, they have a reputation to think of etc.

    86. Re:Really not surprised by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      Never had DVD Decrypter fail to rip a DVD for me, but then again my taste in film tends to be a little more off-beat and eclectic. Perhaps you can provide and example of a DVD that you own which DVD Decrypter has failed to rip? For my own part DVD Decrypter is spartan and simple to use while at the same time presenting powerful options for the more advanced user to filter the inputs and fine tune the outputs. You can even use your favorite MPEG encoder to convert the VOBs into your favorite formats (I am partial to Flask myself, but there are certainly better and more professional packages if you want to spend a buck or two). The all in one tools are invariably lacking in some areas, or at least that has been my experience.

    87. Re:Really not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work in the concert industry full time.

      A concerts production is paid fully by the the bands label as a loan. As a way to increase album sales. In the end the bands pay for the production as a reduction of their percentage of album sales.

    88. Re:Really not surprised by Nos. · · Score: 1

      I believe its commercial with a free (not trial) version. I typically use a combination of DVDFab and DVDShrink, but that's probably because I haven't looked at what they can accomplish on their own. Luckily, I'm not in the US, and don't suffer the same restrictions on downloading this stuff.

    89. Re:Really not surprised by abradsn · · Score: 1
      I'll try to give a reasonable response, though I find your arguments aggravating, I do believe that you are trying to be respectful.

      I think you've missed part of the point. The point is not that it's okay to "steal" a product, but that there is a feeling of being cheated on the part of the consumer which drives people to make copies of a work they should pay for. They feel justified because - unlike just about every other industry they come in contact with - the primary reason for the price is the monopoly the content holders have. They can make the discs $1000, without retribution or fear of competition - there is no alternative vendor for Dido.
      One counterpoint here is that justification does not make a thief not a criminal. Most discs don't cost $1000 and where they do it is because there is only one vendor. That vendor is typically a monopoly on that area because no one else wants to put in the R&D cost that allows them to enter a market where a competitor already has a superior product for a reasonable price. I've written and worked on several pieces of software that range in cost form the low range all of the way up to the high range. Fewer copies get sold at the high range, and it typically costs much, much more to produce the software that costs a fortune. The people that need that type of property should either pay for it or do without it.

      In a civilized society, we (the general populace) expect that the price of the goods has a relationship to the cost of production. That means the cost of all of the production - including reasonable overhead, product development, and recurring costs. CDs don't appear to be priced that way, and the consumers resent it. Since there is no legitimate competition, an illigtimate market has emerged.

      Music CD's cost between 5 and 20 dollars. It's not a good argument that they are so far out of people's reach that they can't afford it. Personally, I agree that the music industry is over capitalized, and that those artists should get back to their roots and people should play music for free. Damn near anyone can create music. But still that belief is beside the point. I don't copy music to anywhere that is not mine, and I don't give it away to all my friends. Besides that the music industry subsidizes all kinds of options for people that can't afford CDs. There's radio, MTV, and all kinds of other avenues like that, without breaking the law. Since these people do work for money, they should get money for the work they do. They should not get robbed by everyone that downloads 2000 songs cause they can't afford a CD. The music industry is going to go up in flames unless something changes drastically. There is a cause and effect here, and the result isn't going to be cheaper CDs.

      There will always be those who are in it just to get around the system, but the vast majority of those who copy music do it because the cost of the product has been set artificially high. Based on what we (think we) know about the industry, we're the ones getting robbed every time we go to a music store.
      That's not true at all. People who copy music instead of paying for it are cheap ass, everything is entitled to them lowlifes that don't want to work a job to earn what they've got. Seriously, $10 for a CD. The packaging cost s 1$ or 2$. The CD costs a nickel. The retail markup is double the wholesale. The production costs are a 1$ or 2$ each. The artist gets a small percentage of that. There really isn't much money lining someone's pockets here.

      For what it's worth I happen to work in an IP field, and my works are protected by copyright.
      For what it's worth, I agree with some of your sentiment, and I also own a lot of IP. I don't know good solutions, and I wish I did.
  3. Oh so many... by gzerphey · · Score: 1

    So many jokes... so little time. Here is your queue people. Sharing porn playlist jokes here in 3... 2... 1...

    --
    I don't have a microwave. I do, however, have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
  4. I might be sarnath'd here, but... by Eco-Mono · · Score: 1

    Doesn't the Zune *already* have video squirt support? And if not, what in tarnation was Microsoft thinking?

    --
    (rot13) rpbzbab@tznvy.pbz
    1. Re:I might be sarnath'd here, but... by SupaYoda · · Score: 1

      Fewer People Copy DVDs Than Once Thought

      You mean the numbers the industry gave us may have been exaggerated?! *shock* :)

  5. Sharing porn... by Philotic · · Score: 1

    ...reminds me of this thing men and women used to do together, before the internet, before the dark times.

    1. Re:Sharing porn... by LighterShadeOfBlack · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...reminds me of this thing men and women used to do together, before the internet, before the dark times. Sit around and talk about how they wished there was some way they could share all their porn?
      --
      Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
    2. Re:Sharing porn... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Well, we'd talk, and kiss, and the dark times would come after I reach for the switch.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    3. Re:Sharing porn... by Cheval · · Score: 0

      yeah...all that sharing really had a snowball effect.

  6. Oops by Imexius · · Score: 5, Funny

    mencoder dvd:// -ovc lavc -oac mp3lame -o thematrix.avi

    Oops wrong window

    --
    find / -iname life 2> /dev/null Error: Life could not be found
    1. Re:Oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ick, lavc is terrible.

      Anyway, I don't even bother encoding... mplayer dvd://1 -dumpstream -dumpfile moviename.vob

    2. Re:Oops by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Informative

      dd if=/dev/hdx of=moviename.iso bs=1024

      is much quicker.

    3. Re:Oops by jZnat · · Score: 1

      Yeah, if only it were that simple to get a good quality rip of a DVD. The process I follow (which is influenced by the MPlayer developers' documentation in the first place) usually involves making a copy of the VOBs from the DVD (dvdbackup is good for this, but you can just rip a straight MPEG-2 VOB via MPlayer and -dumpstream), then transcoding the video (with -oac copy) along with any filters to fix the asinine usage of hard telecine in many DVDs (especially anime which royally fucks up the video so that it's nearly unwatchable without an interlaced TV) and fix other encoding oddities (including black bars on anamorphic widescreen movies), then remuxing it into a modern file format (like Matroska) rather than be stuck with an AVI file that can't support subtitles or VBR audio (although I usually just copy the AC3 audio when available in 5.1) to say the least.

      Makes me want to tell the people who use some autoconfiguring GUI to do this to get off my damn lawn!

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
    4. Re:Oops by CyberLord+Seven · · Score: 1
      This is the only reason I have a Windoze machine. I rip the DVD with DVD Decrypter, then split it with IFO Edit, then use IMG Tool to put it into a form DVD Decrypter can use to write it to disk.

      I've heard you can use these programs in Linux under Windows emulation but have never tried it. My Windoze machine just sits there otherwise and this gives me an excuse to keep it. I don't play games on it but I do still have Tomb Raider, Duke Nukem, M-1 Tank, and some other primitive stuff just in case I ever want to give it a go. :)

      FYI, the stuff I copy is stuff I can't find anywhere or is no longer available. And as has been stated before, DVDs change. George Lucas is not the only revisionist around.

      I MUCH prefer to buy the DVD because bought DVDs are two layer and have the whole movie on a single disk. Besides, it is a pain in the ass to copy a disk and I prefer not to if I don't have to.

      --
      We have always been at war with Eurasia!
    5. Re:Oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize there are tons of native Linux (or presumably Mac if thats what you use) programs you can use to copy a DVD don't you?

    6. Re:Oops by Danga · · Score: 3, Informative

      dd if=/dev/hdx of=moviename.iso bs=1024

      For most movies that alone will not work. You first would have to "unlock" the drive or else you will not be able to read sectors that are marked as encryped. You can "unlock" the drive by doing something like start up some DVD playing software and load the DVD. After that you still could not just dd because a lot of the VOB files will be CSS protected so you would need to DeCSS each sector that is protected. Seriously, do you people who keep saying "just dd it" even try it first?

      One other note, each sector on a DVD has 2048 bytes of user data so it would be more efficient to dd with a block size of 2048 bytes.

      --
      Hey, there is only one Return and it's not of the King, it's of the Jedi.
  7. That's because it is very hard to do... by maillemaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I played around with at least 6 different free applications that purported to, in conjunction with DeCSS, rip and copy DVDs, so as to archive DVDs I already own in my collection, and safegaurd the originals from getting scratched.

    I can't even get the damn ripping part to work. Without fail, either the video is crappy or the audio is out of sync with the video.

    Then we get to the burning part. It seems a crap-shoot as to whether or not the finished burn will actually work. DVDs I've burned seem to play OK in my new $30 Walmart DVD player, but pixellate and stop playing on my 1998 vintage RCA DVD player.

    So I quit trying. I mean it takes hours to rip and burn, and in the end it was a crap-shoot as to whether or not the DVD would actually play.

    It's easier to download and play off of the hard drive.

    --
    A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
    1. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Major+Blud · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've tried many different methods by DVDShrink is by far the easiest. Usually only takes about an hour and I rarely have compatibility problems. http://www.dvdshrink.org/ [Disclaimer: I do not work for DVDShrink or condone copying of copyrighted material]

      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
    2. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm..... I don't understand how it can be this hard.
      Rip to an image, burn to a disc.
      You shouldn't have video/audio sync issues at all. Whatever you're doing, you're doing it wrong.

    3. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      I don't think that there are any easy-to-use free ripping/encoding programs on Windows anymore.

      DVDrip on Linux is the only free one that I find usable. No Windows port, unfortunately.

    4. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by J3M · · Score: 1

      On Windows, DVDFab HD Decrypter does a great job of ripping. Then use your favorite DVD burning software.

      Now that I'm on Ubuntu, I use k9copy to rip and K3B to burn. Works wonderfully.

      I can't help you with your old DVD player though. You'll have to play them on your cheap player.

      --
      Aych tea tea pea colon slash slash slash dot dot org slash
    5. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by gknoy · · Score: 1

      I can't even get the damn ripping part to work. Without fail, either the video is crappy or the audio is out of sync with the video.

      This reminds me of something that my wedding videographer told me about video transfer. Basically, try ripping from a firewire device to another firewire device. When he would try to transfer from (a Firewire) video camera to an (IDE) internal hard drive, the sound would become desynched at some point. The way he solved it was by going from camera directly to a firewire external drive.

      I haven't tried such a thing, but it sounded credible ... =) Not sure how well that would work for a ripping process, though.
    6. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      Thoggen and Acidrip are much easier than DVDrip.

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    7. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Fozzyuw · · Score: 4, Informative

      I played around with at least 6 different free applications [...] I can't even get the damn ripping part to work. [...] So I quit trying.

      I tried finding free stuff too. Seriously, rarely works. Then a friend showed me products by Slysoft. You'll need to buy 2 of their products to get it to work. AnyDVD (the DVD decoder) and CloneDVD (the program that rips and burns). They both cost, if I remember, $30-$40, with free updates and apparently support HD discs (I've never tried it).

      It's a super easy to use program and it's more than worth the price, IMHO. CloneDVD also rips to PSP, DS, and many other formats. I used it to put ST:DS9 episodes on my PSP to watch at the gym. The average time it takes to copy is ~20mins (up to an hour if you're using a DL-DVD) and that's while I'm usually MMOing, but then again, I have a nice rig. Usually it's ~15 to rip and ~5min to burn a copy. You can save your files to avoid future ~15min burns in the future.

      I've never had a problem using this software. The only problem I've ever had was when I bought the El Cheapo DVD's: Dynex (BestBuy house brand). Yeah, an entire spindle for 50 that half wouldn't even work in the machine and the other half turned out to only work on the crappiest Wal-Mart DVD player, but nothing else.

      CloneDVD also makes it pretty easy to remove language tracks, subtitles, special features, etc so you can increase compression quality (if you're compressing a DL-DVD to a normal DVD). I usually short for ~50% compression quality to get normal broadcast quality video. On rare occasions and on very dark images, you get noise and pixelation. But I'm very happy using it. I even watch it on my parents projection TV, and it still looks good. But, I'm not a quality nerd. I just want to watch the shows. I find it as good as watching regular DVD's and TV shows.

      Man, I sound like an advertisement. I guess that's because after spending too much time and frustration trying to copy my DVD's over the years, and finally finding something that just 'worked', I was happy.

      There's a 30-day free trial, so give it a shot. Like most things, I'm more than willing to buy it if it's a reasonable price. Probably why I stopped buying CD's and DVD's and just started using Blockbuster online to watch movies and buy only the music singles I like from online stores.

      Cheers,
      Fozzy

      --
      "The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." ~1984 George Orwell
    8. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by garcia · · Score: 4, Informative

      DVD Decrypter and DVD Shrink. There's no real thought involved. I've ripped hundreds of DVDs this way and I do ALL my own purchased DVDs as well (not just for backup sake but to remove the mandatory commercials and stupid fucking warnings about piracy). I bought the fucking DVD already and I don't share my physical DVD copies with anyone as they never seem to come back in the same shape.

      I have several DVD players (including one from 1998) and all play the DVD+Rs I've burned just fine.

    9. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by maillemaker · · Score: 1

      I tried both of those, and the front-end for them called, I believe, RipIt4me, which is supposed to handle newer copy protection (something about garbage chapters or something) that the old DVD decrypter/Shrink couldn't handle.

      Anyway, I could never get it to work well. I think I got them ripped OK, but then you just end up with a bunch of VOB files. I think it was the encoding into a usable format I could never get to work right. I wanted a mpg or avi or something around 500MB or so. Everything I tried resulted in poor quality. I don't know how the "pirates" do it - all the 350-500MB stuff I've downloaded looks great.

      --
      A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
    10. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by radish · · Score: 3, Informative

      DVD Shrink has options for the output format, but the default is indeed a bunch of VOB files. You are then supposed to burn those to a blank disk using your burning tool of choice. If that happens to be Nero, it will actually do the rip & burn in a single step as DVD Shrink can integrate call it directly.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    11. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      When he would try to transfer from (a Firewire) video camera to an (IDE) internal hard drive, the sound would become desynched at some point Sounds like nonsense. FireWire supports isochronous transfer, so you won't get anything dropped in that part of the connection. As long as you have enough bandwidth to your disk it should be fine. My four-year-old G4 PowerBook had absolutely no problems dumping 10GB of DV footage (one tape) on its slow internal disk at a time from a FireWire camera. For editing, it was much less painful to copy to an external FireWire 800 disk, but getting the files to the computer should never be an issue; if the RAM buffer starts to fill up, the copying software can always stop the camera sending any more data until it is ready to receive it...
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Zerimar · · Score: 1

      I second the nod for Slysoft, although there is no real reason to buy CloneDVD. AnyDVD + DVDShrink (freeware) will copy almost anything without issues. The exception tends to be newer movies by Sony, although you can rip them to disk with AnyDVD and then burn them with DVDShrink without problem - it just requires that one extra step that's not needed with CloneDVD. Also, they offer HD-DVD and BluRay support, but it does cost extra.

    13. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by maillemaker · · Score: 1

      I don't really want to actually burn it, though, I'd rather it stay as a file that my Media Player hooked up to my TV can play. This is why I was trying to get it into .AVI or .MPEG format, or at least one giant .VOB so I didn't have to hit "play next" in between each .VOB file. But the size of the AVI and MPEG are appealing, too.

      I'll have to try Shrink again, I guess, but when I last played with it, the quality of the resulting output was not good.

      --
      A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
    14. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by CyberLord+Seven · · Score: 1
      Get a copy of DVD Decrypter, IFO Edit, and IMG Tool 0.91.7.

      There are a few tricks. You must be using Windoze XP, or 2000 for these programs to work correctly. The major hold up will be with IMG Tool. It will create a file much larger than Win98 can handle. Also, if it complains that a .VOB file is missing you have to create the missing file. This is not difficult. Basically you just open notepad, and save the empty file as missing title.VOB and you're done.

      You won't lose any detail with this process unlike the much easier DVD Shrink. Also, this process creates DVDs that work on my Sony PS2, X-Box 360, Mac Mini, Sony DVD player, my computer at work, and every portable DVD player I've tried them on.

      I would leave more complete instructions as to the whole process, but I'm about to leave work right now and tomorrow is a summer hours day. That means I get to go home at lunch. :)

      If you have any real interest in the details just reply to this and I will post it over the weekend (highly unlikely), or Monday morning (much better chance) when I'm pissed off that I have to wake up early. :)

      If you don't already have the software I mentioned above, you will have a devil of a time tracking those programs down, so Monday may not be too far off for you.

      BE WARNED! DVD DECRYPTER IS ILLEGAL TO DOWNLOAD IN THE US THANKS TO THOSE FUCKWAD REPUBLICAN SENATORS AND THAT SHIT FOR BRAINS CLINTON!

      --
      We have always been at war with Eurasia!
    15. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DVDShrink + ImgBurn.

    16. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by mdwh2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Umm..... I don't understand how it can be this hard.
      Rip to an image, burn to a disc.
      You shouldn't have video/audio sync issues at all. Whatever you're doing, you're doing it wrong.


      Most DVDs don't fit on a single layer DVD. And dual layer DVDs are still generally too expensive for it to be cost effective (at least, last time I looked).

      It wouldn't surprise me if this is a major factor - when dual layer DVDs are as cheap as single layers are now, perhaps we'll see a lot more copying...

    17. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      DVD players made before 2000 often do not support recordable discs. This is intentional to prevent piracy.

    18. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by garcia · · Score: 1

      Make an ISO with DVD Shrink and then burn it with DVD Decrypter. That way you don't have to deal w/stupid fucking Nero.

    19. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Karrde45 · · Score: 1

      DVDdecrypter has an ISO read/write mode. All my rips are 1:1 ISO images that I can then mount in Daemon tools whenever I feel like watching them. Then you can just play it using whatever program you would normally use on a DVD you put in the computer. DVDdecrypter can also burn the ISO's to blank discs if you're not planning on shrinking them. You can shrink using DVDshrink if you prefer single layer disks.

    20. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sheesh. Too much work. Use "DVD Fab HD Decrypter" (http://www.dvdfab.com/free.htm) instead of DVD Decrypter. It's free and breaks through all the copy protections, and is regularly updated. Next just take the files it creates and burn them.

      If you want to do it even easier, get the DVD Fab Platinum, which will also burn the DVD, make ISOs, shrink them to fit on a single disc, etc.

      BTW: No, I don't work for the company or anything, I just value my time and this program saves lots of it.

    21. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Though DVDShrink works well under WINE I believe it's fallen into disrepair of late. K9Copy seems like nice alternative these days.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    22. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by gmb61 · · Score: 1
    23. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by glitch23 · · Score: 0

      I can't even get the damn ripping part to work. Without fail, either the video is crappy or the audio is out of sync with the video.

      What the hell are you doing over there? Just use DVDShrink. It works magic for most of the DVDs out there on retail shelves. If I can download ones that other people make and burn them to disc and play them with no problems it's definitely something that you are doing that is not allowing it to work for you because I don't have artifact issues even though I subject the data to the transmission errors on the Internet. You may also want to slow your burn speed somewhat in order for your older player to read them better. The only time your A/V is out of sync is if you convert the DVD content to Divx or Xvid. If you keep the data in DVD format then there is nothing being changed (especially if you don't shrink the data to fit onto a DVD-R) and no reason to have sync issues. This is definitely a user issue.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    24. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Danga · · Score: 1

      Very good points. Another thing these people who say "just image the DVD" seem to not realize is that the flipping DVD's are encrypted and usually CSS protected. It is not just a matter of using dd because you need to "unlock" the drive so the encrypted sectors can be read (the drive will return an error on a read command otherwise) and you also need to remove the CSS protection from the VOB files. Once you do that then you also have to do stuff like re-encode the video and/or drop video/audio streams unless you are writing to DL discs.

      It is NOT just a matter of dd-ing the DVD.

      --
      Hey, there is only one Return and it's not of the King, it's of the Jedi.
    25. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Danga · · Score: 1

      DVDShrink and DVD Decrypter as well as a tool called Ripit4me all are still available and free for Windows. A combination of those tools makes it extremely simple to rip/re-encode. DVDrip is not needed.

      --
      Hey, there is only one Return and it's not of the King, it's of the Jedi.
    26. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      It is not just a matter of using dd

      Actually, it is, on most computers, at least for ripping.

      On mine, it's a little more complicated. I have to start playing the movie first with mplayer or something, to put the drive in "unlocked" mode, and then I have a script which limits the speed at which dd can work, so it doesn't magically switch out of whatever mode that is.

      But it's still a bit-for-bit copy. You do NOT need to remove the CSS protection unless you're intending to burn it and watch it on a normal DVD player. (And there's actually a nice tool which ONLY removes CSS, and otherwise creates an identical image. Don't remember what it's called, though.)

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    27. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Danga · · Score: 1

      Okay, so your software player is removing the CSS protection as it is reading and playing the files. It still must occur at some point.

      The made me think of something that would be interesting but would never be made, a standalone DVD player that can detect CSS protection and if the keys are not available it breaks the CSS manually. That would be interesting.

      --
      Hey, there is only one Return and it's not of the King, it's of the Jedi.
    28. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by morari · · Score: 1

      AnyDVD combined with CloneDVD2 is by far the easiest way I've yet found. AnyDVD decrypts while CloneDVD2 rips, compresses (if you don't want to use duel layer) and burns. All just a few clicks. You can copy the entire disc or select just the tracks that matter. I love being able to cut out the menu and all of the stupid extra "features" if nothing else. Say goodbye to impassable previews and FBI warning before the film as well! I'm pretty sure that it slices, dices and is self cleaning also... But I could be thinking of something else.

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    29. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      Why the hell do you RIP and burn? Just copy the damn thing.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    30. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I tried finding free stuff too. Seriously, rarely works.

      Mactheripper works every time for me, and it's free.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    31. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Why rip? To get rid of shit like Macrovision, FBI warnings, unskippable ads, insane and annoying menu designs, etc. Basically to improve the DVD.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    32. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by MojoStan · · Score: 1

      I don't really want to actually burn it, though, I'd rather it stay as a file that my Media Player hooked up to my TV can play. This is why I was trying to get it into .AVI or .MPEG format, or at least one giant .VOB so I didn't have to hit "play next" in between each .VOB file. I think you could have been a little more clear in your original comment in this thread. In that comment, it seemed like you wanted to rip a DVD, then burn it to a blank DVD that you could play in a DVD player. Creating DVD-compatible files uses different tools than creating highly-compressed .AVI/.MPEG files.

      I'll have to try Shrink again, I guess, but when I last played with it, the quality of the resulting output was not good. Don't use DVDShrink for this. DVDShrink was recommended by several repliers to your original comment because it is very good for creating intermediate files (.VOB files, index files, chapter files, menu files, etc) for burning onto a DVD. It is not good for simply creating a single movie file that you intend to play off the hard drive.

      But the size of the AVI and MPEG are appealing, too. Note that the .VOB files (that the ripping program and DVDShrink create) use relatively old compression techniques (MPEG2/MPEG1) to keep them backward-compatible with the DVD-Video spec created in the mid-1990s. More modern compression codecs like XviD and MP3 (contained in .AVI files) can create much smaller files while maintaining high audio/video quality.

      To create a high-quality .AVI file from a DVD (the easy way), all you need are two tools:

      1. A ripping program to rip (not compress) the .VOB files and other files (index, chapters, subtitles, etc) from the DVD and to remove the copy protection. DVD Decrypter was the best, but it was discontinued about two years ago after the author received a cease-and-desist order from someone in Hollywood (covered in a Slashdot story). Since DVD Decrypter hasn't been updated in 2 years, newer copy protections will prevent DVD Decrypter from working. RipIt4Me (which you mentioned trying) is great (it basically updated DVD Decrypter to beat newer copy protections), but it got a cease-and-desist notice on March 31, 2007 (shit). The next ripper I'm going to try is DVDFab HD Decrypter, which is highly rated on VideoHelp.com and looks very easy to use.
      2. AutoGK (Auto Gordian Knot) . This tool will create a simple .AVI file (using XviD compression by default) from all those files you ripped from the DVD. It simplifies the process and its tutorial is very easy for a newbie to follow (it assumes you already ripped the DVD and removed copy protections). You basically just choose an input file from the DVD rip (I prefer a .IFO file, which is like an index), select the desired size of the finished .AVI file, and let AutoGK do the rest with its default settings (which are good enough).
      Another good (but outdated) tutorial is available at Doom9.net: http://www.doom9.org/autogk.htm/. This tutorial was last updated in 2005, but it's a nice short guide that shows how easy AutoGK is to use.
      --
      TO START
      PRESS ANY KEY

      Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

    33. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tried most of these and DVD Shrink is good, but you do have to think for 10 seconds about what and whether to shrink. What works for me on XP is just copy all DVD files to HD with DVD43 running (permanently), then use Nero Recode (OK you have to buy it, and only the very latest update works reliably) on its 'Copy main movie' setting. Nothing to think about, can power down when finished, and result seems to play on anything I've got. Doesn't usually need compression but compresses automatically if it does need it. Even unplayable old copies seem to produce good copies when thus 'recoded'.

    34. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      Another vote for autoGK here. DVD-Decryptor the original dvd, then run autoGK, choose the decrypted dvd files, choose your desired output size and start the encoding. Most dvds compress down to 700MB easily without losing too much quality, or 1400MB (2 cd) for longer/better films.

    35. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by Fozzyuw · · Score: 1

      CloneDVD also rips to PSP, DS, and many other formats.

      Sorry, my memory was wrong on this one. I had downloaded a 3rd software called CloneDVDmoblie to rip to my PSP and other portable devices. It's another program to purchase to do this.

      Cheers,
      Fozzy

      --
      "The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." ~1984 George Orwell
    36. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by maillemaker · · Score: 1

      >I think you could have been a little more clear in your original comment in this thread.

      Yes, you're right. Originally, when I set out to try and back up my DVDs, I thought about copying them to blank DVDs. This is what prompted my responding in this thread - my experience started with that approach.

      But soon I discovered that I was having trouble getting my burned DVDs to play in the DVD players in my house. After poking around on the 'net and various forums I came to the conclusion that there seems to be a lot of trial and error involved in finding all the "just the right settings" to get a burn that works reliably. For example, it was frequently suggested not to burn at the highest speed of your drive, among many other things.

      So I gave up trying to burn the rip to a DVD, and instead, wanted to convert the rip into something I could watch. I dabbled around with the P2P stuff and found lots of "DVDs" that had been "ripped" (or I guess more properly, ripped and then encoded) into .AVI and .MPG files, and they were usually around 700MB or so, as I recall. The quality seemed decent most of the time. But, I was limited to watching the movies on my PC.

      Then I got a DLink MediaLounge for Christmas. It supports MPEG1/2/4, AVI, or Xvid, so these are the formats I have been experimenting with.

      I didn't mention all this originally because TFA was about the decline in burning DVDs, and I was only sharing my frustration with the beginning of my journey.

      Thank you so much for all the suggestions. I had already downloaded AutoGK but I cannot remember if I started playing with it before I gave up. I got as far as using RipIt4me to generate .VOBs, but never got any satisfactory results re-encoding into a .AVI with the various tools I tried.

      I'll give it another shot.

      On an aside, how are these cease and desist letters working? Why doesn't the author simply release the code into the wild, and let the rest of the world, in countries outside the jurisdiction, keep up the work?

      --
      A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
    37. Re:That's because it is very hard to do... by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      mplayer already does this. I believe VLC does, too.

      Or am I misunderstanding how they work? (I know they normally extract the keys, like all other DVD players, but I'm fairly sure I've seen them brute-force a couple.)

      The only gotcha is that while a vanilla download of VLC for OS X or Windows has everything you need, the Linux version of VLC, mplayer, and a few other things doesn't always come with all the codecs and DVD cracking stuff you'd want, particularly on Ubuntu and Debian. Fortunately, there are a few simple howtos for enabling those, and if you can play a DVD on Linux, you can rip it or play an image just as easily.

      For that matter, as long as I'm talking about VLC, I believe it has some sort of encoding wizard built-in, if the commandline stuff is too hard... But then, you can always do the copy-the-Video-TS trick from Windows.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  8. Odd purchasing habits... by GWLlosa · · Score: 5, Funny

    Does this mean that the guy I saw at the Best Buy buying 3 spindles of blank DVDs was, in fact, about to record 160 discs full of porn? I'd think he'd get carpal tunnel....



    From changing out the discs repeatedly, of course.

    1. Re:Odd purchasing habits... by C0rinthian · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes. But around these parts we call it 'archiving data'.

    2. Re:Odd purchasing habits... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of data in just a few cubic centimetres.

    3. Re:Odd purchasing habits... by phedre · · Score: 1

      He probably has a massive porn collection to archive.

    4. Re:Odd purchasing habits... by miscz · · Score: 1

      That's for games and porn. As previous posters noticed, little people want to watch movies many times, and on another note, they'll be more likely to download CD-sized DVD-rips. On the other hand if you're a gamer you'll going to need those DVDs quite often and given the fact that average game fills 4.7GB DVD you're going to run out of space pretty soon.

    5. Re:Odd purchasing habits... by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      Even odder is the fact that he was buying three 106 2/3 disc spindles...

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    6. Re:Odd purchasing habits... by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      You're telling me that Best Buy sells spindles of 53 1/3 disks now?

      Sounds like a scam to me... you can never get those 1/3s of disks together without a LOT of duck tape.

    7. Re:Odd purchasing habits... by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 1

      Does this mean that the guy I saw at the Best Buy buying 3 spindles of blank DVDs was, in fact, about to record 160 discs full of porn? I'd think he'd get carpal tunnel....


      Depends on the orientation of the arm, wrist and hand motion used the two could cancel each other out by ripping first then checking
      the quality of the rip...

      Errrr...no comment.
      --
      Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
    8. Re:Odd purchasing habits... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Does this mean that the guy I saw at the Best Buy buying 3 spindles of blank DVDs was, in fact, about to record 160 discs full of porn? I'd think he'd get carpal tunnel....

      Don't you mean when you were at the Best Buy...?

  9. Well yeah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's because Axxo does such a good job!

  10. Sharing music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny
    He who says we don't share our porn like we share our music is wrong. I share all my music with the following warning.

    Make sure your wife's outta the room by 0:36:00, that's when the horse arrives.
    1. Re:Sharing music by dcellis · · Score: 2, Funny

      horse? Please - don't ever share your porn with me.

    2. Re:Sharing music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      horse? Please - don't ever share your porn with me.
      Okay, but would you like to borrow some 'music'?
    3. Re:Sharing music by OWJones · · Score: 3, Funny

      Make sure your wife's outta the room by 0:36:00, that's when the horse arrives.

      If someone borrows a DVD from you, just after midnight you'll send a horse to their place?

      You must have a lot of horses.

      -jdm

  11. Survey says... by iminplaya · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...about half of all downloaded DVDs are pornography.

    And the other half are liars.

    --
    What?
    1. Re:Survey says... by demallien2 · · Score: 1

      No, the other half are women!

    2. Re:Survey says... by Attrition_cp · · Score: 1

      So, liars?

      --
      Touched By His Noodley Appendage.
  12. 1.5 percent? by yanos · · Score: 1

    The survey reports that only 1.5 percent of computer users have DVD copying software

    What? If you have a computer with a dvd writer, surely you also have something like nero installed. Maybe I've been away from windows for too long, but I don't remember seeing some form of protection to do a 1:1 copy of a DVD. Thinking about it, that would have made sense. Is there such a protection in commercial burning application?

    1. Re:1.5 percent? by night_flyer · · Score: 4, Funny

      maybe only 1.5% realize they have DVD burning software installed for their cup holder

      --


      Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
      Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
    2. Re:1.5 percent? by flitty · · Score: 2, Interesting

      1.5% of people with computers burn dvd's huh... Somone do the math and see if (Netflix Subscribers):(1.5% of people with computers) is a 1:1 ratio.

      --
      Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
    3. Re:1.5 percent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Exactly. I have a set of tools to do DVD rips, but that's so I can watch movies on my ChiPod, not so I can infringe copyright by distributing it to other people.

    4. Re:1.5 percent? by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 1

      Just this little thing called the Content Scrambling System. Most standard (ex: nero) burning apps have no measures to overcome CSS. Not to mention that a lot of commercial DVDs are dual-layer, and not all blanks are, so some compression is done to make it fit.

      --
      "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
    5. Re:1.5 percent? by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      Commercial burning programs do not have DeCSS, because breaking CSS (necessary to copy a commercial DVD) is illegal to use in many countries.

    6. Re:1.5 percent? by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Yup, if Nero detects that the DVD is copy protected, it refuses to even make an image.

    7. Re:1.5 percent? by yanos · · Score: 1

      Well yeah, I understand that the content of the dvd is scrambled. But if you do a bit to bit copy, like most burner apps let you do, you don't care if you can't make sense of those bit. You just copy them to the DVD+/-R, in their scrambled state. The result is a disc that is identical to the original, so it will play just fine in a normal DVD player. I'm pretty sure that I'm still missing something though...

    8. Re:1.5 percent? by wiredlogic · · Score: 2, Informative

      More to the point, there is a section of pressed, CSS protected DVDs that does not physically exist on writable media so it is impossible to just make a bit-for-bit copy of the original that will work. You are unable to duplicate that portion of the original.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    9. Re:1.5 percent? by yanos · · Score: 1

      Haaa. That explains it. Thanks!

    10. Re:1.5 percent? by Kadin2048 · · Score: 5, Informative

      What? If you have a computer with a dvd writer, surely you also have something like nero installed. Maybe I've been away from windows for too long, but I don't remember seeing some form of protection to do a 1:1 copy of a DVD. Thinking about it, that would have made sense. Is there such a protection in commercial burning application?

      Yes, there is. Although the people who put together CSS weren't incredibly bright, they weren't that stupid, either.

      First, most commercial programs like Nero won't even make an image of an encrypted DVD. There's no technical limitation preventing them from doing so, but they just stop you. I think that's a lawyer-imposed limit.

      Anyway, if you did make a block-by-block copy of an encrypted DVD, and burn it to a new disc, it would not play back on normal hardware. This is because the key to the content is stored on the disc in a special location, which is always made unwritable on blank DVDs. (Actually, I'm not sure if it's that the blanks don't let you write there, or if the consumer writers aren't capable of writing there, or both.) But anyway, you can copy all the encrypted data, but without the key your player will just barf on it.

      However, DVD playback systems that don't rely on retrieving the key from the disc will play it just fine -- this includes every DVD player on Linux that I'm aware of, once you get the libdvdcss package installed. This is because if the drive fails to hand over the key, libdvdcss will proceed and recover the key through several other methods (one of which is just brute force, and is pretty speedy because of the braindead way CSS is implemented).

      Apple's "DVD Player" application will also play an encrypted VIDEO_TS folder, even if it's not on a disc with the key on it. (Though I've never tried it off of a DVD-R disc; it will work just fine if you copy the VIDEO_TS folder from a DVD to your hard drive and play it, which is nice if you want to watch a movie on an airplane without draining your battery or something.)

      But anyway, one of the only things that CSS actually does is prevent 1:1 copying onto DVD-R discs. Or at least it did until it was cracked eight ways from Sunday. (The biggest thing that stops people from copying movies, or stopped them while it was still an interesting thing to do [before you could go out and get hard drives at a lower cost-per-MB], was that most feature films won't fit on a 4.7GB DVD blank.)

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    11. Re:1.5 percent? by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 1

      Yup, the un-descrambled copies are completely unreadable. I can't fully explain why, mostly because I don't understand CSS myself.

      --
      "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
    12. Re:1.5 percent? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      DVD used as Digital Video (as opposed to Versitile) Disk. To copy a commerical video DVD, you would either need a dual-layer burner (to copy bit-by-bit, and only if they don't have additional protection), or some way of shrinking the video (which is protected by CSS). I'd imagine DVD copying software refers to CSS removal software.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    13. Re:1.5 percent? by tenton · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well yeah, I understand that the content of the dvd is scrambled. But if you do a bit to bit copy, like most burner apps let you do, you don't care if you can't make sense of those bit. You just copy them to the DVD+/-R, in their scrambled state. The result is a disc that is identical to the original, so it will play just fine in a normal DVD player. I'm pretty sure that I'm still missing something though...

      What're your missing is that you can't copy the CSS keys to a DVD+R/-R, since those parts of the disc aren't writable. Without the keys, all you have is the encoded bits; you can't decode them with a normal DVD player.

    14. Re:1.5 percent? by tenton · · Score: 1

      (Actually, I'm not sure if it's that the blanks don't let you write there, or if the consumer writers aren't capable of writing there, or both.)

      The former; that area is pre-recorded over, so it's not available for recording.

    15. Re:1.5 percent? by CelticWhisper · · Score: 1

      The reason is that the scrambled contents are scrambled by 48-bit encryption. The key to decrypt those scrambled contents is recorded to part of the DVD that is inaccessible to DVD-RW drives (i.e. only factory stampers can include those keys). I often wonder why a CSS-key-write enabled drive and key-friendly media haven't come out, released by some company overseas the same as what happened with DVD player "maintenance menus."

      --
      Help protect civil rights from abuse by the TSA - visit TSA News Blog.
      http://www.tsanewsblog.com
    16. Re:1.5 percent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyway, if you did make a block-by-block copy of an encrypted DVD, and burn it to a new disc, it would not play back on normal hardware. This is because the key to the content is stored on the disc in a special location, which is always made unwritable on blank DVDs. (Actually, I'm not sure if it's that the blanks don't let you write there, or if the consumer writers aren't capable of writing there, or both.) But anyway, you can copy all the encrypted data, but without the key your player will just barf on it.

      Actually, I just started doing this and have had no problem playing the burned disks in a regular (ie. non-pc) dvd player. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but I use k3b in fedora core 7. It rips an ISO image to the harddrive, and then burns it to a dual layer (for big features) or single layer DVD. I've only tried it on two non-pc dvd players, but they played fine in both places. Just Verbatim brand blanks.

      Any idea what it's doing? Does it strip out the encryption during this process?

    17. Re:1.5 percent? by just_another_sean · · Score: 1

      Not 100% sure but I think yes, that's what you're getting.

      The GP post is talking about 1:1 copying, just a direct block by block copy of the whole disk. You said "rips an ISO" and I don't know anything about k3b so I'm just guessing but I suspect is what you are getting is a recording of the DVD during playback on the hard disk. As it's being played the decrypted stream is being written to disk, just in a convenient ISO format that you make a DVD from instead of a typical media file format. And also since you're not actually watching it can be "played" (recorder) much quicker then when viewing.

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    18. Re:1.5 percent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would that preserve all the menus, extra features, subtitle, etc? Because the disk I get out appears to have all of that stuff working properly. At least I know the root menu works, the FBI warning comes up, etc. I don't know that's I've tried the subtitles.

    19. Re:1.5 percent? by Danga · · Score: 1

      All that is going on is one of two things:

      1) k3b is using the CSS keys on the disc to decrypt protected sectors as it is writing out the image file. This is the most likely option.

      2) The player you are using detects that some of the content is CSS protected and it deCss's while it is reading. I am not aware of any players that do this but it would not suprise me if they exist.

      --
      Hey, there is only one Return and it's not of the King, it's of the Jedi.
  13. I have copied DVDs by night_flyer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    once was when it wasnt available for sale but Blockbuster had it, it still isnt for sale but I found a copy (Split Second). I have also had to copy some DVDs that were so scratched up they wouldnt play properly, but the copy would (used DVD shrink)

    --


    Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
    Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
    1. Re:I have copied DVDs by griffjon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed, I often rip my DVDs to insure against scratches, especially if I plan on loaning them to friends, carrying on a trip, etc.

      --
      Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
    2. Re:I have copied DVDs by mrzaph0d · · Score: 1

      yep, i never thought i'd need to make one, but sure enough my son managed to lose the burned copy of Sky High when we went on a trip.

      --
      this is just a placeholder till i send back my real sig from the future.
  14. hmm by flynt · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm not sure people share their porn the way they share their music.

    Sounds like you need new friends.

  15. The numbers by halcyon1234 · · Score: 5, Funny

    1.5% of users said they copied DVDs.

    12.5% of users said they didn't copy DVDs

    86% of users shifted their eyes back and forth, coughed and changed the subject

    1. Re:The numbers by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Eh. I'm in the group of people who:

      >Has the equipment to copy dvds
      >Has the technical knowledge to copy dvds
      >Has the bandwidth to download a dvd.

      But I still don't copy dvds. Maybe one day I'll finish ripping all my cds on to my computer, but I doubt it. It's just a whole lot of time spent making a copy of something that I don't care enough to actually purchase.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    2. Re:The numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey Steve, can I borrow some of your DVDs to make some copies?
      Sure, go ahead. There in that stand over there.
      No...not THOSE DVDs.
      Oh, I have another stand over there too.
      No...
      OH, ummmm, under the bed. And the gay stuff isn't mine, I swear.

    3. Re:The numbers by nine-times · · Score: 1

      I didn't RTFA, but where in those numbers are the people who rip DVDs but don't share the resulting movies? Or did they just assume that everyone with DVD copying/ripping software were using it for copyright infringement?

      I rip DVDs sometimes using a nice little program called Handbrake. I guess it's illegal to crack the encryption, but I don't let others copy my movies. I use Handbrake so that I can put my movies on my laptop, mostly for when I travel. That way, I can have several movies with me without needing to carry around physical DVDs. Handbrake also allows you to encode files for specific devices, like the iPod and the AppleTV, which I believe should also be considered a fair use of the copyrighted material. It's format shifting, not infringement.

      Are those people included in the 1.5%?

  16. Well, someone's full of shit by Pluvius · · Score: 4, Funny

    Either the New York Times, who says that very few people copy and burn DVDs and the people who download DVDs are as likely to be getting porn as not, or the MPAA, who says that movie piracy is rampant and costing the movie industry billions (yes, with a B) of dollars a year.

    I know which side I'm betting on.

    Rob

    1. Re:Well, someone's full of shit by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it actually is the rampant copying of porn that the MPAA has their knickers in a bunch about?

    2. Re:Well, someone's full of shit by CaptScarlet22 · · Score: 1

      I dont think anyone of those 2 are full of shit here. DVD piracy is not just about coping and burning DVD's, as the article talks about...It's also Rip-Upload-Share-Download-Watch. If you can watch it on your computer, why go buy it or go see it at a movie house?? Not going to the movie house is a huge part of the revenue loss. Ticket prices pay for the movie upfront costs...or at least you hope you do...DVD's are just revenue after you break even.

      But meh..I still pay for my movies.

      --
      It's left blank because I have nothing to say to you punks!
  17. still a lot of people by nomadic · · Score: 1

    The survey reports that only 1.5 percent of computer users have DVD copying software, and of those 1.5%, 2/3rds of them don't even use it.

    .5% of computer users is a breathtaking high number of people.

    1. Re:still a lot of people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, 300 million Americans, less than 62%[1] use computers, and 0.5% use DVD copying software: That's under 930,000 people who copy DVDs. Though the number is high compared to, for example, the number of people in your office building, it's still less than one in three hundred people and doesn't seem to be of pandemic proportions.

      [1] http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p23-208.pdf - Less than because not everyone in every household with internet access uses it. One-year-olds, for instance, rarely download porn.

  18. Denial by sehlat · · Score: 2, Funny

    I did not have sexual relations while watching that DVD!

    1. Re:Denial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did not have sexual relations while watching that DVD!

      I ripped, but I didn't encode.

    2. Re:Denial by Castar · · Score: 1

      For some reason, I believe you.

      --
      I yearn for you tragically. A. T. Tappman, Chaplain, U.S. Army.
  19. Duh by illegalcortex · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of course very few people copy dvds. It would be rather silly for ALL of us to rip them before putting them up on bittorrent.

  20. Biased sample? by yuna49 · · Score: 4, Funny

    From TFA, this study was released by "the NPD Group, a research group that has monitored the behavior of 12,000 Americans with software on their computers."

    I'd bet the DVD copying rate is even lower among those Americans who do not have software on their computers.

    1. Re:Biased sample? by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      More to the point, I'd wager that the type of people who know damn well that they copy DVDs all the time might also be the kind of people who, when asked if they would like to install software on their computers that monitors everything they do, would say "no, thank you."

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    2. Re:Biased sample? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      From TFA, this study was released by "the NPD Group, a research group that has monitored the behavior of 12,000 Americans with software on their computers."

      I'd bet the DVD copying rate is even lower among those Americans who do not have software on their computers.


      Joke aside, how is this relevant for those that are smart enough not to allow monitoring sofrware on their computers? 0.5% of the clueless 95% is still lower than 50% of the remaining 5%, to make up some numbers.
    3. Re:Biased sample? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From TFA, this study was released by "the NPD Group, a research group that has monitored the behavior of 12,000 Americans with software on their computers."

      I would like to know how they monitored these 12,000.
      Did they volunteer to be in the study and just reported what they did or was some monitoring application installed on their PCs that reported into a central server...

  21. I don't anymore, its not worth the time or effort by Shivetya · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I buy all my DVDs, usually either on release day when they are heavily discounted or from online sellers (like deep discount dvd) when I can get most for 6 dollars or less. Yeah I know I am indirectly supporting the evil MPAA but the fact is I want these movies and its not worth the risk to just buy them, especially when I get them for such a great price. I usually buy odd movies; like those people like us like; and series (again those people here are more likely to buy) that don't hold their price original prices very long.

    I tried many of the copy programs, have downloaded torrents of current series, and all that. Now I record on the fly with the tivo-clone what series I want and keep them around till the dvd comes out and gets to a ok price. For the most part copying DVDs was more of a novelty to me and others, its the "oh, I did that when I was a kid" type stuff that just isn't worth the hassle or civil penalties to do anymore

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  22. HandBrake. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Informative

    That's all I'm going to say.

    (Yeah, it's Mac and Linux only, and I think the Linux version doesn't have a GUI yet. Thankfully, I don't care.)

    Actually copying a DVD, as in making a disc from another disc, seems like a waste of time. It's like copying CDs. Who uses CDs anymore? The price of storage is low enough that I can have my entire movie and video collection on my MythTV box, ready to watch with just a few presses of the remote.

    (And yeah, I know MythTV will supposedly rip DVDs itself, but I've never gotten it to work correctly. Everything that has to do with DVDs is flaky in MythTV, IMO, probably because it's hard to even discuss anything about encrypted playback without people wigging out because of the DMCA. It's easier to just encode them on a Mac and then shove them onto the Myth box over the network.)

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:HandBrake. by Otter+Escaping+North · · Score: 1

      I'm a Handbrake user as well. I haven't seen an easier application to use in terms of ripping and encoding -- although the DVD manufacturers (esp. Sony) are starting to catch up with it, and Handbrake is trying not to be shut down. Still, All my movies and TV shows are archived onto my file-server in the basement, and served up through my Mac mini, using FrontRow.

      I almost never watch a DVD live any more, and my player is starting to go on the fritz - not sure I'll bother replacing it.

      --
      Running Windows^H^H^H^H^H^H^H OSX and Linux in the home. (I don't have time for Solitaire any more.)
    2. Re:HandBrake. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I hadn't visited the HandBrake site in a while, because I've just been pretty happy with the old version I've been using for a while to feed the Mythbox, but apparently they seem to be doing well.

      Hopefully if Sony and its cronies get out the DMCA-hammer, they'll be able to locate to someplace friendlier. (The VideoLAN people seem to be based out of France and don't get a lot of crap, and they maintain libdvdcss, which is sort of the key to every piece of DVD-related free software.) It's a pity, because I've probably bought more (admittedly, bargain bin) DVDs as a result of my HandBrake+MythTV setup than I ever did previously. But nobody has ever accused the media conglomerates of having a surplus of foresight or common sense.

      Also, they supposedly have a Windows GUI for the new version. I'm not entirely pleased about this (I'm going to be annoyed if they get flooded with Windows script kiddies and the development focus moves there from Mac/Linux), but it's worth noting, I suppose. And the Linux CLI version seems to have been brought up to speed with the other versions, although there are other Linux DVD rippers that might be more attractive to people on that platform.

      And it seems to finally have surround-sound and H.264 High Profile support. (Though why you'd need High Profile for a DVD rip I'm not sure, but hey, the more options the merrier.) And presets, which will be nice.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    3. Re:HandBrake. by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      The price of storage is low enough that I can have my entire movie and video collection on my MythTV box, ready to watch with just a few presses of the remote.

      Yeah, the problem is if you, like me, enjoy the interactive menus, add-on content, and so forth. In that case, the only option (AFAIK, please enlighten if I'm wrong), is a straight rip, which ends up being *huge*. And storing my entire movie collection as raw rips is currently infeasible without building a mass-storage server that's just a little out of my price range.

    4. Re:HandBrake. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      Well, you can copy a DVD and preserve the menus, while dropping the bitrate on the video material to squeeze it down somewhat. This is typically done to put a dual-layer DVD onto a 4.7GB DVD-R blank. It's a multistep process: you have to rip the DVD, which includes decrypting it, then reduce the size, and then burn the size-reduced files to a DVD. I'm sure someone out there probably scripted it at some point, but I think it became a lot less attractive when MPEG-4 encoders got to the point where they can rip a DVD in faster-than-realtime, and hard drives got big enough to hold hundreds of films and make them available to you instantly.

      There was, at one time anyway, some "one click to ISO" tools for Windows that took a DVD and produced a 4.7GB image, and I think they had the option of preserving menus. I never used them, because I don't do Windows, but I saw someone using one once (this was probably back around 2002-ish). You may have a hard time finding them now, because it seems like interests have shifted.

      (Personally I've always detested DVD menus, and when I do watch DVDs it's usually with mplayer, which cuts right to the main feature, skipping all the menus/previews/crap...although, admittedly, every once in a while there's some extra content worth something. Personally I've always wished that they could have just left all disc navigation functions to the player, and just present the user with a list of options, but Hollywood would never want to relinquish that much control. Damn, I liked LaserDisc.)

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    5. Re:HandBrake. by Tiny+Elvis · · Score: 1

      Actually copying a DVD, as in making a disc from another disc, seems like a waste of time. It's like copying CDs. Who uses CDs anymore? The price of storage is low enough that I can have my entire movie and video collection on my MythTV box, ready to watch with just a few presses of the remote.

      Yeah I'm actually amazed that everyone on the thread seems to be focused on copying a DVD to a blank DVD. Its like when you see someone who is still carrying around CDs instead of MP3s. What's the point? I make a backup of the VOBs (for archival purposes) and then convert the VOB into AVI/divx so that I can watch it on my TV set using a NETGEAR set top digital media player or move it to a portable player. I store everything on my NAS.

      Recommended software: DVDshrink (rip DVDs (except newer sonys)), PocketDivxencoder/Lathe (convert the VOB to AVI/DIVX - nice because has lots of presets for portables), IMtoo mpeg encoder (great at general video encoding/conversion, e.g. flv to divx), Videoredo (cut the commercials out of your .tivo files, save as mpeg)

    6. Re:HandBrake. by 5c11 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's Mac and Linux only, and I think the Linux version doesn't have a GUI yet. Thankfully, I don't care.

      That's odd, I seem to recall downloading and installing a GUI Windows version about a week or so ago...
      Yep, according to the website, I did.
    7. Re:HandBrake. by sootman · · Score: 1

      +1 for HandBrake. G5 plus two 500 GB HDs (storage, purchased for $150 each) plus a Mac Mini (hooked to TV) plus the local public library = happiness. No more media shuffling, no more fucking FBI warnings in 3 languages, no more having to wait through retarded menu animations just to get to the fucking MENU where I can click to play the movie... just FrontRow -> Movies -> Title -> enjoy.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    8. Re:HandBrake. by Danga · · Score: 1

      Recommended software: DVDshrink (rip DVDs (except newer sonys)),

      Look for a tool called Ripit4me and install DVD Decrypter and you might be suprised that is can rip the newer Sony's. That has been my experience lately and I used to be DVDShrink only.

      --
      Hey, there is only one Return and it's not of the King, it's of the Jedi.
    9. Re:HandBrake. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      Yeah my information was out of date, I hadn't realized they had done a Windows GUI. (I made a comment about some of the other new features further down in the thread.)

      The Linux version is still CLI only, but in some ways that's not too bad, because it's easy to use in a script, and it avoids them getting into the GTK/KDE/Gnome religious war. It's nice to have something for Linux that doesn't have a giant list of dependencies, which was what killed me with other DVD ripping packages that I played with on my Linux box. (Thank God for monolithic applications.)

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    10. Re:HandBrake. by james_orr · · Score: 1

      The internal MythTV DVD player has supported menus and the add-on content for quite some time now. Even before then you could have xine play the DVD.

  23. Some people do... by RingDev · · Score: 1, Funny

    I'm not sure people share their porn the way they share their music. Obviously the author has not served in the military.

    -Rick
    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    1. Re:Some people do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      He was refering to straight porn. ;)

  24. Fundamentally Flawed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HYPOTHETICALLY, if I was doing illegal things on my PC (like copying copy-protected DVDs), and someone asked me to participate in a study where my computer activities would be monitored over a period of a few months, I would most certainly turn them down.

    How many criminals willingly submit to being monitored?

    I don't think the statistics from this on DVD copying have any real-world credibility.

  25. Heehee by foo+fighter · · Score: 1

    That's because I'm not copying the DVD to a new DVD, I'm ripping and reencoding it to h.264/aac!

    --
    obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
  26. Handbrake by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

    We only have a couple of window A.C. units in our house, and our DVD player (a PS2) is hooked up to our downstairs TV. Needless to say, it makes watching movies on the dog days of summer a drag. I use handbrake to rip my own DVD's and then put them on my video iPod. With a cheap cable, I can hook it up to the small TV in my bedroom so my wife and I can watch our movies in bed in the cool air. And no, they are not porn.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re:Handbrake by 19Buck · · Score: 1

      or you could have bought a 50 dollar set top DVD player from Walmart and saved yourself ALOT of time AND trouble with the same end effect.

    2. Re:Handbrake by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      I typically rip my movies at night before I go to bed, so the computer is working on it when I sleep. The amount of time I put into it is minimal.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
  27. Re:Talibangelists Invade U.S. Senate: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Alert Level: Double Triple Jalapeno

    Yes but do you want fries with that?

  28. Nah, not so hard, try it this way... by TwoPumpChump · · Score: 3, Informative

    On Windows, DVDFab HD Decrypter [dvdfab.com] does a great job of ripping. Then use your favorite DVD burning software.

    In a nutshell, this is how I do things:

    1) Rent from Netflix, 2 at a time unlimited (all issues of throttling aside)
    2) Rip discs as they arrive with DVDFab HD Decrypter
    3) Compress with DVDShrink (I still have a single-layer burner and besides, the disks are cheaper - I just don't copy the extras or the French audio track, etc., so as to minimize compression of the main movie. This also strips off the ghey previews and FBI warnings. Snatch!) I have used both DVD-R and DVD+R; personal preference is DVD+R. YMMV.
    4) Burn result with Nero. Keep files on harddrive for awhile until I'm sure the burnt disk is ok.
    5) Whisk Netflix movies back next day. Watch burnt movie at my leisure. ~~
    1. Re:Nah, not so hard, try it this way... by J3M · · Score: 1

      Yup, almost exactly what I do (I forgot to mention DVDShrink). I also found DVD+R better, but only because my burner is slightly faster with +R. Oh, I did find that Taiyo Yuden discs seemed to give me the best results too.

      I also used some of the guides at doom9.net to fine tune DVDShrink.

      --
      Aych tea tea pea colon slash slash slash dot dot org slash
    2. Re:Nah, not so hard, try it this way... by fireman+sam · · Score: 2, Insightful

      6) Realize that your Netflix account name is the same as your slashdot account name
      7) Answer knock on the door
      8) Disappear

      No profit for you.

      --
      it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
  29. I don't.. by joe+155 · · Score: 1

    ..partly because I don't know how. I'm sure I could find out easy enough if I really wanted to (say, if anyone knows how to do it using only software which is in the fedora yum repos I'd be interested out of curiosity). Partly because I (at the moment) don't have the HD space for it. Partly because it'd take ages. And partly just because whilst its a hastle to dig out my DVDs and put them in the drive its far less of a hastle than having to rip and then having no space on my computer.

    --
    *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
  30. Really? by morari · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No one surveyed me... Why do you think I pay for NetFlix?

    --
    "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    1. Re:Really? by MyMacSmokesPot · · Score: 1

      How did you read my mind like that?

    2. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ditto on the Netflix account. two years worth, frankly to copy DVDs which i had originally as videos, over a thousand, then on to building up a library for watching in the future, another thousand. and at the rate i now watch movies, that will last for 30 years. now, if i need to add some desirable new release, off to the discount rental store. i consider this my own type of time-shifting movie viewing. BTW, with the free programs out there, i usually could rip, encode and burn in under an hour. long movies split to two disks. after all is said and done, one dollar per copy,blank disk and case cost. DVDDecrypter, RipIt4Me, DVDShrink thanks to you all!! ARRGGHHH, MATEY!!

    3. Re:Really? by morari · · Score: 1

      I use AnyDVD to decrypt (as well as knock at previews, FBI warnings, etc) and CloneDVD2 to rip, compress, and burn. It's a lot more streamlined than most other software I've tried and definitely has not let me down yet. I doubt my combination of choice is quite as powerful as some you could find, but it doesn't present as much of a hassle as quite a few I've seen and that's what matters to me at least.

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
  31. Bad statistics by bobdotorg · · Score: 4, Funny

    Overheard in a conversation between an MPAA lobbyist and a US Senator:

    That 1.5% statistic is very misleading. According to my client (the MPAA), people's connections have become 12 times faster than dialup, so the real figure is 18%. And as more PC's start to have dual core processors, the MPAA forecasts this number to approach 36%.

    Now when you further consider that PC screens have increased from 15" to 24" over the past few years, the figure becomes 92%.

    And finally, when the 40% increase in brightness of modern displays is taken into consideration, we see that a whopping 129% of people are downloading movies illegally.

    Given this vast recent upswing in piracy rates, we urge you to direct all efforts of the FBI, DHS and CIA towards stopping this national economic threat.

    --
    __ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
    1. Re:Bad statistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that 74% of statistics are made up on the spot, right?

  32. No protection, but no capability. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    Here's the problem:

    Blank dual-layer DVDs are still prohibitively expensive for casual users. Actual Hollywood DVDs are typically 7 or 8 gigs, which requires dual-layer. A single-layer DVD is more like 4.3 gigs.

    Even if it weren't for that, I remember hearing that the CSS key is stored in a location that is not writable on consumer blank DVDs. So you can't do it directly in Nero, though there are several tools to easily strip out the CSS and create a version that is absolutely identical, but without the DRM. So, if DL media gets cheap enough, it will become MUCH quicker and easier to burn an exact copy of a DVD, but it's still not something you could do directly in Nero without Nero having to specifically code DeCSS support.

    Right now, the process typically involves ripping the DVD, re-encoding it (or "requantizing" it, whatever the fsck that means) at a lower bitrate, and burning it. Or, you can rip only the movie (strip out the special features), and either burn it straight, or re-encode it if necessary. (It's probably also possible to split it into two separate DVDs, but nobody does that.)

    Me, I rarely even try. I just encode down to a fifth or a tenth of the size, but in h.264 so it's watchable, and if I run low on space, I burn like five movies to one DVD-R. Watchable only on a computer, of course, but I can live with that.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  33. My Choice Of Fries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  34. It can be very easy. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 4, Informative

    I can't even get the damn ripping part to work.

    In 99% of cases, this is absurdly easy. In fact, your OS already comes with all the tools you need to rip, and VLC will play the ripped image.

    If you're on Windows, just right-click your DVD drive, "open", and copy all the files to a folder on your hard drive. If you're on OS X, open Disk Utility, click your DVD drive, and choose "Create Image", and choose a CD image format (not HFS or anything, and not compressed). If you're on Linux, "cp /dev/dvd foo.img" will create an image called "foo.img".

    If these work at all, they will generally give you a disk image that can be used in place of the original disk. On Linux, just configure your favorite DVD player to use that file as the DVD device. For recent versions of VLC, you can simply open a dvd:// URL that points to the file (or folder, using the Windows way) -- so you do dvd:///home/somebody/movies/matrix.img or something. On Windows, probably dvd://c:/some/where... In any case, the easy way is to browse for it as if opening a file, then change file:// to dvd://

    Basically, if VLC can play the DVD in the first place, than your OS (I don't care what OS it is) already comes with the tools to rip an image that will play with VLC. The downside is it does no compression and no decryption, so you can't burn this image directly, and it probably uses about 8 gigs of hard disk space.

    The process of re-encoding is a bit longer, but not incredibly hard to get right. And I've discovered that ripping is really fast, encoding will take all night, but downloading in the same quality might take a few days -- and also, both ripping and encoding can be put on a low priority and run while I do other things, but downloading invariably lags me.

    The hardest part is authoring an actual DVD that will play on an off-the-shelf player, but a video card with TV out is pretty cheap, and the best screen I own is my monitor anyway. So I usually just watch it once, and if I really want to keep it, I encode to h.264, sometimes turn the ac3 into Vorbis (and sometimes not, depends what the original quality is like and how much I like that movie), then combine that with the subtitles and chapters ripped straight off the DVD image. I end up with an mkv that's around 300-500 megs. If I find myself doing this enough, I'll probably write a script to automate it, but I've discovered a process that never seems to get the AV out of sync.

    In any case, I don't bother unless I have the original DVD. But it's nice, I mean, downloading takes days and days, and there's the possibility of being caught and fined (or worse). Ripping means I just borrow the DVD from roommates for about 15 mins, then give it back, and the only way I get caught is if they seize my computer.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    1. Re:It can be very easy. by maillemaker · · Score: 1

      >If you're on Windows, just right-click your DVD drive, "open", and copy all the files to a folder on your hard drive.

      If I was doing what I think you are describing, one of my rippers did something like this and produced a bunch of .VOB (I think) extension files. While I could get these to play using DVD playing software, it sucked to have to stop and play each separate .VOB. Is there a way to concatenate all the .VOBs into a single file? This is why I was trying to convert the DVD into an MPEG or AVI or something.

      >I encode to h.264, sometimes turn the ac3 into Vorbis (and sometimes not, depends what the original quality is
      >like and how much I like that movie), then combine that with the subtitles and chapters ripped straight off the
      >DVD image. I end up with an mkv that's around 300-500 megs. If I find myself doing this enough, I'll probably
      >write a script to automate it, but I've discovered a process that never seems to get the AV out of sync.

      What is your process? Everything I've tried so far makes file that is poor quality, usually audio/video sync problems. I've been trying to convert to .AVI or .MPG - I'm not familiar with mkv. It seems like the encoding programs have half a million settings to fiddle with, and after playing with it for a while, I gave up.

      --
      A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
    2. Re:It can be very easy. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      While I could get these to play using DVD playing software, it sucked to have to stop and play each separate .VOB. Is there a way to concatenate all the .VOBs into a single file?

      The .VOB files are usually in a VIDEO_TS directory. VLC and Apple's DVD player will both play a VIDEO_TS directory as if it were a DVD.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:It can be very easy. by maillemaker · · Score: 1

      My problem is I've got this MediaPlayer device (Can't remember the name of it right now), that plugs into my network and my TV, and let's me play video files from my computer on the network onto my TV. But I don't think it supports VIDEO_TS. I'll have to try it and see. But that is why I was looking to get it into .mpeg or .avi format. That and size.

      --
      A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
    4. Re:It can be very easy. by ThousandStars · · Score: 1
      Your comment just proved the OP right. To burn a CD, put the CD in the drive and tell iTunes or Windows Media Player or whatever to rip it and you're done. Maybe plug in your iPod if you want to copy it to a portable device. You ignore CSS, which doesn't let you just copy files to your hard drive, and even so, you're also recommending that you change the TV setup, taking complex steps to make sure the DVD actually plays in Grandma's DVD player.

      In any case, I don't bother unless I have the original DVD. But it's nice, I mean, downloading takes days and days, and there's the possibility of being caught and fined (or worse). Ripping means I just borrow the DVD from roommates for about 15 mins, then give it back, and the only way I get caught is if they seize my computer.

      Or you could just pay $10 and buy the damn thing, or get a Netflix subscription.

    5. Re:It can be very easy. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      While I could get these to play using DVD playing software, it sucked to have to stop and play each separate .VOB.

      Then you're not listening. Go back and read the part you quoted.

      I don't know about Apple's DVD player, but point VLC at the VIDEO_TS directory. NOT the files. The DIRECTORY.

      Look at your VLC URL. If it ends in .VOB, just add a dvd:// to the front, and delete the foo.vob from the back (everything after the last / or \). If you did it right, you should be at your DVD menu.

      Even if you couldn't do that, your software really must suck if it's that difficult to make a playlist of files. Then it'll still suck, because there would be a pause each time it changes files (probably), but you won't have to actually stop and do something else.

      Is there a way to concatenate all the .VOBs into a single file?

      There probably is, but you'd probably lose your menus and stuff, and it's easier just to play the VIDEO_TS directory. Also, it's much easier (on anything but Windows) to just rip an image of the whole DVD -- which is then a single file. But really, VLC can play either the file or the directory, it doesn't care.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    6. Re:It can be very easy. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Well, if you don't care about size, you can turn it into an AVI with no loss of quality by doing this:

      TITLE=1 # set this to the title you want to rip
      mencoder dvd://$TITLE -oac copy -ovc copy -o foo.avi

      Or, if it's in a file already:

      mencoder -dvd-device /some/where.img dvd://$TITLE -oac copy -ovc copy -o foo.avi

      I believe that'll also do a VIDEO_TS, but I'm not sure. You can also probably get it to create mpegs, but I don't usually bother, since the avis are easy to turn into mkvs.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    7. Re:It can be very easy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear Mr. SanityInAnarchy,

      Thank you for informing us that you have pirated movies on your computer. We appreciate how much you like our movies. To help us serve our customers better, we would like you to answer our survey.
      1. Please state your full name, age, address and SSN
      2. Please state your yearly income
      3. Please list all movies on your computer and on the scale of 1-10, how much you like them
      4. Please list the names and addresses of your friends with whom you share the movies
      5. Other than ripping DVDs, please list other ways you share movies

      Thank you for participating in our survey. For quality control purposes, our lawy^H^H^H^Hcustomer service personnel may contact you shortly. Please do not remove the movies from your hard drive until our customer service personnel makes note on the audio/video quality of the rips.

      Sincerely yours,
      MPAA

    8. Re:It can be very easy. by xkenny13 · · Score: 2, Informative

      What is your process? Everything I've tried so far makes file that is poor quality, usually audio/video sync problems. I've been trying to convert to .AVI or .MPG - I'm not familiar with mkv. It seems like the encoding programs have half a million settings to fiddle with, and after playing with it for a while, I gave up.

      I'm on Windows 2000, using DVD-Shrink, VirtualDub (for DVDs) and DivX.

      Insert your DVD and have DVD-Shrink assess it. Normally, I'm just interested in the main movie, so if you want menus and extras, you may have to do some of your own research here. Select "Re-Author" so DVD-Shrink will allow you to recompress the movie and shrink it to fit a certain target size ... but I prefer to keep the quality, so I leave it full size.

      Now this is an important step. Edit-->Preferences-->Output Files. Uncheck the "Split VOB files into 1GB size chunks". This way you'll get one huge VOB file, instead of several smaller ones. Run the utility, you'll get a bunch of miscellaneous DVD files, in addition to your VOB. The VOB is the only one you are interested in.

      Find a copy of VirtualDub that can read a VOB file. Normally, a VOB is some sort of non-standard MPEG2 file, which will result in a synchronization/pack error (or something similar). This version of VirtualDub can read it like any other file. Select DivX as your compression scheme, configure your bitrate for whatever size/quality you desire, then save as an AVI. Done!

      For those who like ripping television shows, each title should show up as a separate VOB file. This means every episode is ultimately stored as a separate AVI file. No menus, no commercials, no FBI warnings ... just the content!

    9. Re:It can be very easy. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      You ignore CSS, which doesn't let you just copy files to your hard drive

      You obviously don't understand CSS.

      I dare you. Try it. Pick up a CSS-encrypted DVD (that doesn't use other bullshit copy protection, like intentionally placing bad sectors in places a "normal" DVD player won't read), and follow the steps I just described. The files are copied, encryption and all.

      Then use VLC to play them. It'll have to crack the crypto every time (I think, unless my method copies keys, too, which it probably does) -- but the amount of time that takes is not noticeable.

      even so, you're also recommending that you change the TV setup, taking complex steps to make sure the DVD actually plays in Grandma's DVD player.

      Who the fuck mentioned Grandma?

      I suggested changing the TV setup as one way to ensure that it will play on a TV. But the OP didn't seem overly interested in that, seeing as they were fine with downloading instead of ripping anyway. I assume that if they've downloaded it, they're either watching on their computer, or they already have a decent TV setup.

      Or you could just pay $10 and buy the damn thing, or get a Netflix subscription.

      This could get to be an expensive habit, especially compared with $1-2 to rent the thing.

      Right now, it's mostly laziness, and not financial concerns. I don't even think about "what do I want to rip today", I just notice a DVD lying around, pop it in the computer, and rip it. The ripping process is one command, and it doesn't disrupt anything else I'm doing with the computer, so saying "Or you could just..." doesn't make sense when this is the easiest thing I could do without hiring someone specifically for the purpose of buying my DVDs and loading them into the player. (I'll bet it's even easier than pay-per-view.)

      For what I do download, not everything is out on DVD yet, and not everything ever will be out on DVD in the US, and it's no longer $10 when you're talking about an entire season or five of a TV show. At that point, it becomes a question of, do I download this show, or not watch it at all?

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  35. Option C by Valdrax · · Score: 1

    Or very few people copy DVDs and then seed them, allowing movie piracy to be rampant.
    Or movie piracy is rampant from non-DVD sources (such as theater cam releases).

    The two aren't actually mutually exclusive, though the MPAA is almost certainly inflating numbers (if not just making them up), and I'd really love to see the methodology for where the NYT got theirs.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  36. I think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think that YOU are the one watching lots of porn because there is obviously less blood available in your head at the moment because 160 isn't divisible by 3. Three spindles of DVD's couldn't come out to 160 discs.... oh wait... I assumed all spindles had the same quantity.... o well. I'm gonna stop babbling now anyway, it's hard to type with one hand :-)

  37. DIVX by mrshowtime · · Score: 1

    Why go through all of the hulabaloo and time copying a dvd when a relatively perfect copy can be downloaded off of the internet encoded in DIVX/XVID?

    --
    "Jeremy, you need to get to an internet cafe and cut and paste some appropriate sentiments about me from the world wide
    1. Re:DIVX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because my ISP regularly sells my traffic report to the government, which would readily provide it to the MPAA, but my local library vigorously protects the list of movies I rent, and couldn't tell if I ripped it anyway?

    2. Re:DIVX by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Because some ISP's have bandwidth caps, and what if you want better quality than XviD?

  38. this is only because ... by non · · Score: 2, Funny

    MPlayer's man page is too long for most people to read :-)

    --
    ...vividly encapsulates that post-Watergate/pre-punk/coked-up moment when you could trust no one, least of all yourself.
    1. Re:this is only because ... by jZnat · · Score: 1

      At least MPlayer is well-documented! :)

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
  39. WHAT KIND of IDIOTIC headline is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Fewer People Copy DVDs Than Once Thought


    Is this what Slashdot has come to? PLEASE. Next topic up, "Some people think that there are more dolphins than whales in the ocean"

    This site is run by morons.
    1. Re:WHAT KIND of IDIOTIC headline is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

    2. Re:WHAT KIND of IDIOTIC headline is this? by Sockninja · · Score: 1

      said the coward

    3. Re:WHAT KIND of IDIOTIC headline is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Indeed. In the days of the videotape, nobody was copying DVDs. The estimated number of DVD pirates was a grand total of 0, same as the number of existing DVDs to pirate. Now there are more, much more on both accounts. See the problem for your poor, overworked average MPAA enforcer? The number of DVD pirates has gone up not down since the VHS days. This article is DUF.

      --
      jerked. the captcha generator is gone mind-reading again

    4. Re:WHAT KIND of IDIOTIC headline is this? by Xeirxes · · Score: 3, Funny

      Say what you'd like, but when I see the topic "Some people think that there are more dolphins than whales in the ocean," I'm probably going to click on it and read it....

    5. Re:WHAT KIND of IDIOTIC headline is this? by XL70E3 · · Score: 1

      hmm, i agree, but.. it has come to this with this latest system. I guess the editors were tired of being blamed so now, the content is what most people want to see. Trying to find the balance?

  40. Disney can go suck DUMBO nuts by jameskojiro · · Score: 2, Funny

    They Advertise heavily infront of their DVDs and give you no bleeding option to skip the damn commercials for their next direct to video sequal "Alladin 4: The Jihad against Jafar" or "Cinderella XI: Das Slipper". When will it bleeding well end? Plus 1/2 the stuipid disc is nothing but advertisements, so that the movie has shitty quality and Dumbo is a pixelated mess.

    Somone should shoot the mouse and put him out of his misey.

    --
    Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
    1. Re:Disney can go suck DUMBO nuts by networkBoy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Try pressing stop-stop-play on your DVD player (hit and miss when using the remote). Almost any Taiwanese unit I've tried this on (and many others like Phillips, Panasonic, etc.) this will drop you straight to the root menu.

      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    2. Re:Disney can go suck DUMBO nuts by SupaYoda · · Score: 1

      Try pressing stop-stop-play on your DVD player

      Isn't that supposed to be A, B, A, B, UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, SELECT, START? :P

  41. MODERATORS!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Mod parent up. This really frickin' makes sense...

  42. Fair use? by jeffasselin · · Score: 1

    The only reason I use my DVD extraction software is to change it to a different format to use it on a different device, namely in this case my video iPod, which is perfectly legal in Canada.

    --
    If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
    1. Re:Fair use? by microwave · · Score: 1

      I'm one of those guys that copy my DVDs on a regular basis. I'm rarely at home and very seldom have a chance to sit down and watch a movie on TV, so I rip it down to a DIVX file and carry it on a USB drive. That way I can watch movies in my hotel room or on the plane at my convenience. I do always purchase the original disk, and would never give away the files to anyone, however I have been known to loan the DVD to friends from time to time. Legal or not? Who knows in these facist times, but I paid my dues and want to watch my movie without having to haul around a case of 100+ disks. Bravo Canada for allowing fair use copying. Now, how do I rip Blu-Ray?

      --
      The box said "Requires Windows 2000, XP, or better", so I installed Linux.
  43. mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    mod parent up

  44. Depends on the artist by benhocking · · Score: 1

    So, taking that into account, the artist doesn't care much about the CDs, just he concerts.
    Obviously, this depends a lot on which artist you're talking about. Some indie artists make very little from the concerts and hope that the concerts result in CD sales.
    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
    1. Re:Depends on the artist by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      That can be true, but it is starting to get to the fringe elements of music.

      With respect to the majority of music produced today here is where the groups get their money:

      Labels: CD sales
      Bands: Concerts (Tshirts, side project CDs, posters, etc)

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
  45. Wow, Thanks! by maillemaker · · Score: 1

    You know, I just ran across those Slysoft guys a few weeks ago. I made a mental note to check them out next time I get into trying this DVD ripping thing again. I had pretty much decided, as you seem to have, that the free stuff just wasn't working.

    It was a disappointing realization. I've had a fair amount of faith in the free software movement that by now the hackers out there would have made a free set of easy-to-use ripping software, but after trying 5-6 different things and spending a fair amount of time Googling for "DVD ripping", I had already decided to bite the bullet and lay down $100 if it would do the trick.

    Thanks for the endorsement of the Slysoft stuff, I'll definitely try that now.

    --
    A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
  46. Expert MPAA testimony by langelgjm · · Score: 2, Funny

    "As we all know, the internet is 99% porn. This study shows us that this porn accounts for 1 out of every 2 DVD downloads, which means the other 50% of DVD downloads must be pirated Hollywood blockbusters. Now, if 50% of downloads are 99% of the internet, clearly the other 50% of downloads must also be 99% of the internet. This just goes to show that the internet is 99% pirated movies, and this, Congressman, simply must be stopped."

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    1. Re:Expert MPAA testimony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > "As we all know, the internet is 99% porn"

      tubes, man, tubes. he forgot to say the internet is tubes...

  47. Yeah, right by cdrguru · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I know something about the 321 Studios product DVD X Copy. The company was raking in well over $15,000,000 per month while this product was on the store shelves. With around a $50 price tag, that equates to 300,000 new users each month. Were they just buying it to have it and didn't intend on using it?

    This is one product and the company was sued out of existance. There are dozens of products available today some free, some costing $50 or more. The folks behind 321 Studios are apparently selling their product from Canada now. Do you think there are no customers?

    I suspect there are still well over 300,000 acquisitions (free or otherwise) each month of some type of DVD copying software. In the years since this got started this probably means there are over 100 million users.

    Yeah, not as prevalent as once thought. Sure.

  48. Absolute BS. by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That is certainly not it. My favorite example is:

    http://www.cduniverse.com/sresult.asp?HT_Search_In fo=who+made+who&HT_Search=TITLE&image.x=11&image.y =9&cart=566907299&style=music&altsearch=yes
    http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=7275 727&style=movie&BAB=E

    There is absolutely no excuse for a sound track to cost more than the movie AND soundtrack. I would assume that MOST soundtracks cost more than the movies they are from within a year or two of the movies release to video.

    1. Re:Absolute BS. by shark72 · · Score: 1

      "There is absolutely no excuse for a sound track to cost more than the movie AND soundtrack."

      Huh? The record company isn't allowed to set pricing according to the law of supply and demand? Everybody else does it; you even do it when negotiating your salary.

      I know we hate the record companies and all, but that's just a weird thing to say.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    2. Re:Absolute BS. by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Oh, they're allowed to do so. The problem is that they're passing laws and such that short-circuit that, as well as being the only suppliers by strong-arming distributors, so they can set the price at whatever they want, they don't respond to the market.

    3. Re:Absolute BS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually... I happily paid extra to listen to AC/DC *without* having to
      watch that POS movie.

    4. Re:Absolute BS. by shoemilk · · Score: 1

      Huh? The record company isn't allowed to set pricing according to the law of supply and demand? Everybody else does it; you even do it when negotiating your salary.

      The problem with that is they've obviously outpriced the demand (hence the rise in piracy). Instead of adjusting the price, they bitch and moan and sue sue sue.
  49. Bigger Pipes by N8F8 · · Score: 1

    Till bandwidth increases dramatically this ain't going to change. IT isn't quick or convenient to download DVD images. I average $4/movie to BUY it, why would I waste the hours downloading and burning it?

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
  50. Isn't HandBrake called MediaFork now? by Rai · · Score: 1

    I've used HandBrake and it's successor MediaFork, both good for DVD-to-file conversion, but if you want to go DVD-to-DVD-R, MacTheRipper and Roxio Toast are your friends.

    1. Re:Isn't HandBrake called MediaFork now? by martinX · · Score: 1

      Another vote for MTR + Toast.

      Made one recently of a Pink DVD that didn't work very well however. Maybe Pink has access to some funky copy protection stuff...

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
  51. They do fit by dinther · · Score: 2

    Actually most movies would fit on a 4.7 GB disk provided you dispense with all the crap surrounding the actual movie. Of course Lord of the Rings or the latest Pirates movie would be too long.

    I want DVD's that simply start playing the moment they are entered into the drive. No super weird menu's to figure out with often ambiguous structures. Just pop in and play. My main reason for copying DVD's.

    I get upset every time I spend money to hire a DVD and then be forced to sit through warnings and adds. It makes me WANT to copy the DVD and strip this crap.

    1. Re:They do fit by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      I get upset every time I spend money to hire a DVD and then be forced to sit through warnings and adds. It makes me WANT to copy the DVD and strip this crap.

      Amen, brother. That's one of the reasons why I now do almost all my DVD watching through Myth. Either I rip the DVD on my Mac and send it over the network to the playback machine, or I watch it directly using mplayer, which by default just plays the main title stream on the DVD, and doesn't do menus, UOPs, or any other garbage. It makes the "DVD experience" very much like the "VideoCD experience," only without LP-sized discs, LaserRot, or a player that sounds like a UFO landing.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    2. Re:They do fit by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      Actually most movies would fit on a 4.7 GB disk provided you dispense with all the crap surrounding the actual movie.
      Most of the DVDs I've looked at copying (my daughter has an annoying habit of dumping DVDs wherever's handy when putting a new one on) don't quite fit in 4.7GB even without the extra crap. Most are within 10% or so, but are still too big, and I'm loathe to compress them.

      I get upset every time I spend money to hire a DVD and then be forced to sit through warnings and adds.
      I get even more upset when I buy a DVD and have to sit through the stupid "PIRACY is a CRIME" thing. Yeah, it's illegal - but I haven't pirated the disc I've bought it, so fuck off and let me watch the damn film!
  52. People don't share porn? by Makaristos · · Score: 1

    You have NO idea! Ready, normal people?

  53. And mice have few babies.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Prime example. I kept mice at one point for feeding reptiles. I had to give them up so I gave away the mice as well. Turned out one mouse had hidden in the bedding. Well I just kept it and fed it. Turned out it was pregnant. After three or four months I had hundreds of mice and all my old cages for the reptiles were full of mice.

    Point being one DVD copied and uploaded turns into hundreds, thousands even millions of copies. Yes few people are copying for their own use but they like downloading and a handful of people are servicing millions of downloads. The post is simply pointing out the system of piracy not that DVD copying is rare.

    1. Re:And mice have few babies.... by mgabrys_sf · · Score: 1

      I thought the point was that you had a mouse problem.

  54. Because it's nearly a complete waste of time. by Simulant · · Score: 3, Interesting
    • It takes forever
    • It fails frequently
    • The burnt DVD's frequently won't play properly in a normal DVD player (or even be readable in a DVD-ROMdrive)
    • Optical Media is a piss poor long term storage solution.
    • If you're a collector and really care about quality/longevity, you probably want the real thing.
    • If you just want to watch a free movie, burning one is really not worth your time & effort.
    • It's far easier to download from BT or USENET and the quality is close enough to DVD these days that most people won't notice the difference. (assuming of course they can figure out how to hook up their PC/Laptop to their TV)
    • How many times can you watch the same damn move again anyway?
    1. Re:Because it's nearly a complete waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're wrong on every count. I can make a perfect copy of any DVD (with all the protection removed) to a DVD+R DL disc in 30 minutes or less. If I feel like compressing it to fit on a single-layer DVD, then it can take maybe 45 minutes more (which is still less time than it takes to watch the movie). I have copied about 700 DVD's in the last 4 years, building up a nice collection. I have yet to see one of those fail (maybe if you use cheap crappy media, you might get failures - I only use name brand good quality media). I watch movies that I copied back in 2003 with no problems at all. Maybe it is easier to download a movie from BT or USENET (it can still take a while to find the movie though) but with those downloads you are not going to get the menus and extras that are on the original DVD (maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it does to me).

    2. Re:Because it's nearly a complete waste of time. by Simulant · · Score: 1

      Oh.. I don't deny that if you invest some time and obtain good equipment, software, & media, you can perfect your method and get good, consistent results. However for the average person, who maybe only wants to copy something every now and then and who uses a random PC with a random DVD-writer, random media, and who-knows-which DVD copying software, I guarantee that most will find it a slow painful experience and few will get good results the first few times. Granted you get better with practice & knowledge but most people are going to give up quickly. (and appear to have done so, from RTFA) (and 30 minutes is still too slow when you can download a movie in 10-15 min on a good cable connection... or better yet walk to your local video rental store and back... But I'm obviously not the movie buff you are and don't care to watch most things more than once.) But more power to you. Keep on burnin'

    3. Re:Because it's nearly a complete waste of time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many times can you watch the same damn move again anyway?

      He said, after his child wanted to watch 'Barney the Dinosaur' for the 900th time that month.
    4. Re:Because it's nearly a complete waste of time. by phildo420 · · Score: 1
      I don't know about you, but it takes me about 45 minutes to do a copy from one DVD, compression, and burn onto a new 4.7gb DVD.
      I have about a 1% fail rate -- I've made two DVD coasters.
      I have backups of all of my DVDs now on DVD without the commercials, and playable on any of my DVD players (my new 5 disc changer, and my PS2 included.)
      I have the original DVDs for when I want 100% of the quality when I'll be sitting infront of the TV with no interruptions -- but I can't remember the last time that happened.
      I dunno, I know people who use my burning method (DVDFab Platinum - 50$) to burn their Netflix movies the day they come in and send them out the next morning. They get 20 movies a month or so through Netflix this way and get copies of them all and watch them at their leisure.
      I'm pretty sure that it's easier to have a DVD mailed to you than downloading it. And TV Outputs to older TVs can be difficult to set up, while outputs to new TVs require calibration and such to set up. Why not just pop it into the DVD player already hooked up correctly?
      I dunno, some people really like certain movies. Every so often you remember a movie you liked, feel like vegging out and nothing is on TV, so you watch it again. That's how you get those people who can quote movies at will.

      This is Slashdot, here I'm small fry in terms of technical computing knowledge. I don't even use Linux, what's so hard about burning a DVD? It's faster than BitTorrent (1 hour vs 8+), you don't have to sit there. You pop a DVD in one drive, a DVD-R in another, and let it go.

  55. People lie at surveys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's human nature. I recall a few years ago a survey in Europe asking guys how many times a year they have sex (with a partner.) The averages varied with countries, but even in least passionate ones (which I can't remember) it was something like 150 times a year. This probably reflects what the participants in the survey would like to do, not what they do.

  56. Boner Jams '03... by robgmills · · Score: 2, Funny

    Here it is-- Boner Jams '03. Its a mixtape of all my favorite boner scenes in the summer of 2003.

  57. Most of the revenue is from DVD sales by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative
    According to the MPAA (PDF warning), theatrical sales brought in $25.82 billion worldwide in 2006 (page 5, includes the U.S.). Distributed over 607 films released (page 10) this works out to $42.5 million per film. But on average each film cost $65.8 million to make (PDF warning) (page 17, production and advertising costs).

    In the same year, DVD sales numbered 1.3247 billion (page 28) in the U.S. alone, at an average price of $22.40 each (page 33). That works out to $29.7 billion in DVD revenue in the U.S. U.S. theatrical sales by comparison were $9.49 billion (page 4). DVD sales in the U.S. alone exceed worlwide theatrical sales.

    Per film released (yeah I know they're not the same films, but we're doing an annual tally here) that works out to $48.9 million per film, for the U.S. alone. If the sale ratio of theatrical vs. DVD sales in the U.S. holds for the rest of the world (unlikely, but let's just say), then global DVD sales would be $80.8 billion, or $133 million per flim.

    So to recap for 2006:
    # of releases: 607
    US theatrical sales: $9.49 billion
    Global theatrical sales: $25.82 billion
    US DVD sales: $29.7 billion
    Global DVD sales (hypothetical): $80.8 billion
    Average cost to make each film: $65.8 million
    Average theatrical sales per film released: $42.5 million
    Average DVD sales per film released (hypothetical): $133 million

    I think it's safe to say that DVD sales are the lion's share of their revenue. The theater side of the industry could disappear entirely and there's probably still plenty of room for profit. Draw what conclusions you will from this about the RIAA's pricing. (Also note that the $10 DVD is a myth - yes some are sold for $10, but the average price is about the same as a music CD.)

    One final footnote. The MPAA only claims $6.1 billion in losses to piracy (PDF warning) in 2005. So they're claiming piracy only accounts for 6%-11% of their total sales (depending on what figure you use for DVD sales). The RIAA claims $4.5 billion in piracy losses in 2005 versus $12.3 billion in total retail music sales. A whopping 37%

    1. Re:Most of the revenue is from DVD sales by drew · · Score: 1

      No, it's not a myth. I can go into Target or a number of other stores and find DVDs I am interested in buying for under $10. I cannot find CDs anywhere for under $10. The average price may be about the same, but the average only affects people who buy DVDs and CDs more or less randomly without regard to cost. If you wait to buy them until you find one that is priced at what you consider to be a fair price, DVDs are cheaper than CDs.

      --
      If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
    2. Re:Most of the revenue is from DVD sales by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      (Also note that the $10 DVD is a myth - yes some are sold for $10, but the average price is about the same as a music CD.)
      I would say that this is not the case at all for DVDs in general. What you have to distinguish between is newly released DVDs versus DVDs that have been on the market for a while. Newly released DVDs usually cost in the $20 to $30 dollar range, and this is likely what the numbers you quoted are based on. However, DVDs that have been out for a while are lower cost.

      From my personal observations, the costs change about as follows:
      New release: $20 to $30
      6 months to 1.5 years from initial release: $15 to $25
      1 year to 5 years from initial release: $10 to $20
      Older or clearance: $5 to $10, sometimes less

      BTW, I've got quite a few receipts - or records of receipts - to show the last two. For that matter, just go to your local WalMart, FYE, or other locations - or just go to Amazon.com.

      Of course, some DVDs will buck this trend. But it's probably a good estimate.
      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
  58. Show me yours and I'll show you mine! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Porn, that is. People bumping nasties. Genital Bowling. That thing my parents do when they think I'm asleep. Balls to taint slapping. You know what I mean. I mean...

    A

    * Aardvarking [1]
    * Acting like rabbits
    * Adam and Eve'ing it
    * Afternoon delight
    * Assassinating the cooter

    B

    * Baby dancing
    * Baking cookies
    * Baking the bean
    * Baking the beef
    * Baking the tube steak
    * Balling
    * Ball twanglin'
    * Doing the Bam! Bam! (Family Guy reference)
    * Banging
    * Banging uglies
    * Bare arsed boxing
    * Barking the surly nanny
    * Bashing the beaver
    * Bashing the bush
    * Beating cakes
    * Beating cheeks
    * Beating guts
    * Beating it up
    * Beating that thing up
    * Beating the drum
    * Beaver busting
    * Bed wrestling
    * Bedding
    * Bedroom fun
    * Beef bayonette charge (leading a...)
    * Beef injection
    * Being in a woman's beef
    * Being up to one's balls
    * Being up to ya nuts in guts
    * Bending one in
    * Big Banging
    * Birds and the bees, just like the
    * Biffing, as in "to biff"
    * Bisecting the triangle
    * Blast 'er in the bush
    * Boarding the Shuttle
    * Boffing your brains out
    * Boinking
    * Boom-booming
    * "Boom-shaka-laka-laka-laka (x3) Boom"
    * Bone dancing
    * Boning
    * Bonking
    * Boofing
    * Bopping
    * Boshing
    * Bouncy hugs
    * Bouncing the bearded clam
    * Bow-chika-wow-wow
    * Boxing the goat nut on a good Tuesday (Van Wilder 2 reference)
    * Breaking her off proper
    * Breeding
    * Bringing ol' one eye to the optometrist (Grumpy Old Men reference)
    * Buffing the beaver
    * Bumping and grinding
    * Bumping bellies
    * Bumping fuzzies
    * Bumping nasties
    * Bumping uglies
    * Bumping skins
    * Burning soup (dinner is forgotten)
    * Burying the baby leg
    * Burying the baldy fella (Dublin, Ireland slang)
    * Burying the bone
    * Burying the general
    * Burying the weasel
    * Burying the weenie

  59. How I make backup DVDs. by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 1

    (via my 1.42 Ghz Dual Processor MDD Powermac)

    MacTheRipper to rip and strip the DVD. Usually a one click process.

    Toast Titanium 8 to burn the disk. Usually a two-three click process. Mainly finding the file created by MacTheRipper.

    Insert blank DVD, close drawer.

    Tell Toast to burn file.

    Wander off to do something else, come back to a freshly burned and DVD player playable copy of my DVD.

    --
    Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
  60. Why copy them when you can easily by greymond · · Score: 1

    Download the DVD Rip? Really, a good quality Movie can find it's way to anyones hard drive as a nice 700mb-1g Quicktime *.Mov File. I see no reason to waste my time/money on purchasng DVD media all the time. I only use my burner for making music CDs for my car.

    Sure I guess this won't let me use the best HDTV features or some such thing as someone will point out, but the movies still look fine to me via my s-video cable and non-HD tv.

  61. No shit? by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

    Of course fewer people are copying them. Most of the people with legitimate reasons to do so don't, out of fear that a terroristic media company has designed the disc to fuck up the OS or brick the drive.

  62. two words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    disney vault- you can bet your ass I copy dvds- ones I own even. My son is rather rough on his movies and the thought of hearing "I want to watch ____________" for the next 10 years until it comes out of the 'Disney Vault', you can bet your pitootey I'm going to copy the disk and play the copies.

  63. It's easy, but it's easier to buy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are a lot of available programs to copy a DVD, such as the famous DVDXCopy (http://www.selldvdxcopy.com/) and the slightly less famous DVD Decrypter (http://www.dvddecrypter.com/). But now, you can go to any Wal-Mart and browse through their dump bin for $5 DVDs. Granted, they're not the new releases, but it's still usually a decent selection for building your DVD collection. And at that price, it's not worth the effort to copy. Box sets, on the other hand, can get quite pricey (such as a season of "Star Trek: TNG" that was selling for around $150 initially)... Those discs get copied, but only so the originals don't get scratched, worn out, etc. It's still too much of a hassle to spend an entire day copying them just for free discs when you can rent them from NetFlix for next to nothing... but it is worth it for protecting your originals if you watch them a lot.

  64. Part of that 0.5% by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1

    Netflix + software + TiVo = a few hundred GB of movies online, ready to watch.

    1. Re:Part of that 0.5% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have ~1000 movies as I do, even at 4.7gb/disc = 4.58 TB. That's quite a raid array. When I can have a 10TB raid (real raid, not JBOD or stripe), I'll do that.

  65. Re:I don't anymore, its not worth the time or effo by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

    I think people also forget that dual-layer blank discs that can copy almost everything on a standard two-layer DVD are still quite expensive on a per disc basis, and decent dual-layer recorder drives are still fairly expensive (over US$90 retail for a really good one that works off the Serial ATA connection).

  66. I say it here: Never underestimate.... by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

    The survey also revealed that users were more likely to download DVDs than copy DVDs that they borrowed or rented

    Speaking as somebody with fairly limited DSL transfer rate at home: "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of DVDs rolling home from Blockbuster."

  67. MOM... by Sfing_ter · · Score: 1

    MOM(poster), may have never been to a lan party or perhaps never stayed up long enough to get to that part of the evening, about 2am only a few people away start checking out the open shares
    @@@@ Whooot. And remember, first to fall asleep looks like snidely whiplash in the morning... http://www.clan-afu.com/images/southlan/index_5.ht m :)

    --
    A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
  68. Wrong format, meant LaserDisc... by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    s/VideoCD/LaserDisc/g

    Although admittedly, VideoCD is a lot like LaserDisc in terms of format; it too (to my knowledge) just plays when you pop it in.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  69. dvd copy by ralph1 · · Score: 0

    First off we do share our porn thanks and movies are cheap blockbuster sells them 4 for 20 bucks 30 or 40 year old pinkfloyd 39.00 and im now tired of wall music.

  70. probably cause you want dolphin secks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'do me in the blowhole'

  71. nice shilling there shilly mc shills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    like those people like us like; and series (again those people here are more likely to buy)

    that just isn't worth the hassle or civil penalties to do anymore


    Dont you feel your job is perverse? go ahead, jump. thats true freedom
  72. Marginalize and criminalize by syousef · · Score: 1

    That's all they're doing here. Make it sound like the only ones interested are a bunch of sicko porn-freaks and you can then pass and/or enforce draconian laws without having people up in arms.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  73. Statistics by dgagley · · Score: 1

    So if this it true then the movie industry is blaming their lack of quality on a small minority of people, which can be said using many different sceneros.

    If you have 100,000 computer users and 1.5% of them have the burning software (1500 people) and only 1/3 of them use it (500 people) and only half of them are supposed to download non Pornographic movies that is an average of 250 people per 100,000 or around two fifths of a percent.

    This does not add up to the amount of the losses they claim.

    ***disclaimer. My math is not perfect and I am using the articles assumed statistics as accurate***

    --
    I can't use my sig - my computer can't read my handwriting.
  74. I copy them too... by skeftomai · · Score: 1

    ...in order to watch them on my Pocket PC in bed or anywhere in the house. I rent the movie from Blockbuster, NetFlix, or wherever and copy it, return it, watch it whenever I get around to it, then I delete the copy when I'm done. I see nothing wrong with that.

    I use TCPMP with ffmpeg libraries on the pocket pc to actually watch the video, and to access the video across the wireless network, I use BizzDev's Net Use to mount a Samba network share. No copying to memory card required.

    If people at the RIAA want to complain, they need to get a life.

  75. Does this have something to do with porn? by dangitman · · Score: 1

    Why are you trying to code men?

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.
    1. Re:Does this have something to do with porn? by bdubSOv1iKIJ403M · · Score: 1
      No. Mencoder and Mplayer (Media Encoder and Media player) are high-performance (much less CPU usage during playback then other media players), cross platform, open-source applications easily available from http://mplayerhq.hu. The above command,

      mencoder dvd:// -ovc lavc -oac mp3lame -o thematrix.avi Reads "dvd://" as the input file, and uses lavc (a codec distributed with mencoder) as the Output Video Codec, and uses mp3lame (to convert the audio to mp3) as the Output Audio Codec, and uses "thematrix.avi" as the Output_file. From this, we can conclude that the grandparent poster had a copy of the matrix dvd and an open terminal / Konsole window when he posted.
    2. Re:Does this have something to do with porn? by dangitman · · Score: 1

      But it has "men" in the name. Heh heh. Men.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  76. MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People should stop writing stupid things they don't know work.

  77. Not a keeper by ziggyboy · · Score: 1

    The reason for this is quite simple.

    People download movies/TV episodes to watch them, not to keep them. If you've borrowed a DVD why bother copying it when you can watch the movie straight away? Such a waste of DVD disks.

    pr0n.....well that's a totally different story...

  78. WOW! by Atario · · Score: 1

    The biggest thing that stops people from copying movies, or stopped them while it was still an interesting thing to do [before you could go out and get hard drives at a lower cost-per-MB]
    Please tell me where you're buying your hard drives! The best I can find is 19.19 cents per GB, and my usual top-of-the-line DVD+Rs go for 8.936 cents per GB.
    --
    "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
  79. Spend the money at SlySoft by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    I know, $69 for some dead simple programs. Trust me - they're updated regularly, and they just plain work. When a problem disc comes out, they rev the software.

    You'll make back the money in lack of frustration in no time. I've gone through most of the free utilities, and regularly play with win and linux doing video extraction from my HD TiVo. I've got 300 DVDs (many Disney, and a 4 yo to watch them ad infinitum). Save your time, drop the cash on AnyDVD and CloneDVD. If you're lucky, they'll have a promo code for $5 off each (they run them from time to time).

    You can strip out everything but the movie. For DVDs you don't need to transcode (many of the Disney ones will fit in 4.7GB without the fluff without transcoding), its a simple copy process that takes just a few minutes per disc. I've transferred about 50-60 (half with AnyDVD) and the process was very simple. A warning: this does not offer advanced control of the copy (new menuing and such), but it is dead simple. Really.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  80. I don't download or copy dvds by stud9920 · · Score: 1

    Divx with a well configured coded gives a satisfactory quality and is easy to download.

  81. 1 command - DVD to DivX file by gosand · · Score: 1
    I rip DVDs to divx files, burn multiple to a DVD+R, and my DVD player plays them fine. I do this more with stuff my daughter will watch (Sesame Street, Noggin), but also can movies and TV shows on my computer. I'll record TV shows on my DVD recorder, then rip them. Our portable DVD player plays divx too. Believe me, it saves tons of time/energy/space to have many shows on one disc. Once while working overnights to support a software release we were doing, we had tons of downtime. I could put 5 or 6 movies on one DVD+R, including VLC (windows version) to watch them. Watch TV shows and movies on my work laptop without installing anything. Sweet.


    Now, on to the command:


    mencoder $titlechapter -af volnorm -srate 44100 -oac mp3lame -lameopts cbr:br=128 -noodml -vf scale=${ripres},eq2=1.0:1.0:0.03:1.0 -sws 9 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vhq:vmax_b_frames=0:vbitrate=863 -ffourcc DX50 -o $outfile


    Where:

    titlechapter = dvd://1 (usually works, this would be title 1 on the dvd)

    ripres = 320:240 for TV shows, 360:240 for widescreen DVDs

    outfile = the output file, something.avi

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  82. Media server + Blockbuster + HDTV by topkilz · · Score: 0

    Sorry fellers, I do not like compressed codecs that downconvert my audio to two channel audio SO..... I rent the movies from Blockbuster online then take them back to the store and get three more and at the same time 3 more ship, plus I get two movies for free every month. I get about 20 movies per month and I rip them onto my media server uncpomressed using anydvd and clonedvd. In the words of the great Darth Vader "All too easy!" I have about 100 movies on my server right now and if I watch a movie and dont like it, I delete it. Otherwise, on the server it stays unless I burn it or cmpress it for mobile purposes. It is a little archaic, but I just don't trust file sharing and torrents anymore, and I refuse to watch movies with 2-channel audio on my THX HT system.

  83. The only concerts worth going to by benhocking · · Score: 1

    That can be true, but it is starting to get to the fringe elements of music.
    Also known as: the only concerts worth going to. :)
    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
  84. Re:Oh so many... (Grammar Nitpick) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nitpick:

    "queue" = Line, waiting list, etc.
    "cue" = Signal to begin

  85. This reason I copy now by topkilz · · Score: 0

    I posted earlier about copying DVD's, but the main reason I do it now is because of all the DRM they are incorporating onto the media now. For instance, my kids like to watch movies, but since I do not care for most of their shows, I have them watch their movies in another room (on the crappy DVD player). I have since discovered that copying the DVD fixes ALL the problems of prohibitive to the point of defective DRM on DVD's. Disney is the worst. It was tragic when my daughter could not watch CINDERELLA 3 of ALL movies. She even begged me to fix the movie so she could watch it. Imagine me putting Cinderella 3 or Bridge to Tarabithia on my 50" Pioneer plasma (OH THE HUMANITY). Like anybody would want to rip crappy kiddie cartoons (oh, I guess I do for the kiddies).

  86. Retarted Survey by NY Times by Markman219 · · Score: 1

    i dont usually comment on articles i see on slashdot but this one i gotta say is retarted. i mean who would tell a surveyor that they have DVD copying software on their computer. but even if you do say that you have that software on your computer then you would be really retarted to tell them that you use it all the time.