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In the UK, Possession of the Anarchist's Cookbook Is Terrorism
Anonymous Terrorist writes "Back in the midsts of time, when I was a lad and gopher was the height of information retrieval I read The Anarchist's Cookbook in one huge text file. Now it appears the UK government considers possession of the book an offense under the Terrorism Act 2000 and is prosecuting a 17 year old boy, in part, for having a copy of the book. 'The teenager faces two charges under the Terrorism Act 2000. The first charge relates to the possession of material for terrorist purposes in October last year. The second relates to the collection or possession of information useful in the preparation of an act of terrorism.'"
...who are the terrorists?
Watch as some people get upset about this but still go on to say why we need to "prevent" terrorism and other crimes.
Watch as they call me an extremist for suggesting that crime prevention is an absurd attempt to trade freedom for security and will *never* work.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Having read the Anarchist's Cookbook, I'd say anyone actually attempting to use the "recipes" to make explosives should be considered suicidal rather than terrorist.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Don't people know most of the stuff in that book is a good way to get yourself blown up? Dangerous or not, though, censorship of any kind is just not acceptable in a free society. Everybody should read banned books.
This means Amazon is a terrorist organization! See Amazon.co.uk: The Anarchist Cookbook (Paperback).
Is that the book with all those recipes for drugs made from banana skins etc.? I remember loads of people at my school having a downloaded copy of that at 13-14 years old.
OF course it is. Let's face it, the purpose of this book (according to the author; see wikipedia) is to teach people how to destroy and to kill. It even shows you how to build a dirty bomb. It's a pity information wants to be free. Personally I'd like to see it deleted from the face of the earth.
Ask yourself: What good has come of this book?
The second relates to the collection or possession of information useful in the preparation of an act of terrorism
Doesn't this mean they can pretty much charge anyone for having any kind of information relating to Bus/train/airplane times? Software Vulnerabilities? Google Earth? The Location of the White House?
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
I have not read that thing in a good many years, but from what i remeber it was filled with alot of miss imformation, some of which could be harmful.
The last time I've perused the section of textbooks for education, I've come across books for aspiring pyrotechnicians and chemists that create pyro-stuff. They've also contained instructions, recipes, handling instructions and whatever else. Because of that, I almost die laughing seeing all the attempts to ban said material on the web.
Maybe it is finally time for a constitution? In writing, with guarantees of free speech?
Just a wild, crazy idea.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
The Anarchist's Cookbook is part based on a Spanish language urban guerrilla warfare manual that the CIA cooked up when they were promoting unrest in central America. I wonder will they be arresting the head of the CIA anytime soon. This is just part of Bush's phony war on terrorism where as what they are really about is shutting down free discourse on the Internet. You see you can't oppose the US/Israeli policy in the mid-east without being a terr'ist ..
davecb5620@gmail.com
... is not in charge of Gundam.
Heh... As if we had not enough of these.
Don't you think that'll come in handy when fighting Terrorism?
What do you have to be afraid of, if you're not a Terrorist?
Now that i think about it... You'd better come in for questioning, seeing as you're in on a Terrorism charge, we can hold you indefinately while we investigate which books you have.
Aaarrgh.... too much paranoia.
Blah blah sig blah blah blah irony blah blah
Think of the Chil... Wait, Terrorism? OH MY GOD. Which way is everyone else picking?
I hope that accurately summed up the sheeple's confusion on this one. Of course, in reality, children (especially 17 year old ones) that break the law should be prosecuted (maybe not quite as harshly as an adult would be) and terrorism should be stamped out, but this is -neither-. The 'kid' was probably just interested in what all the hubbub was about, and thought the book was the cool thing to have.
As far as I can tell, the 'material' he had was only the book, and the 'information' he had was also the book. Unless he was actually BUILDING a bomb, he hasn't done anything wrong. In fact, from a career standpoint, he's just prepping for a good military career as a demolitions expert. (Or other demolitions expert, for that matter.) The entire world is far too quick to jump on someone for possible terrorism when they are simply going about their daily lives.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
It would be horrible to be prosecuted for owning something trivial like The Anarchist Cookbook. I'm of the opinion that information should be free, it's what people do with that information is what should make them eligible to be prosecuted. Just because someone has a degree in Nuclear Physics doesn't mean that they're going to construct nuclear bombs and cause anarchy. Information can be dangerous but we need to convey logical conviction. I'm hopeful that the courts will show some common sense and rationalize.
Rightly or wrongly, intent is the key here. Possession of a knife is not illegal. Possession of a knife for the purpose of murdering somebody is, then a prosecution may be brought. Similarly, possession of the Anarchists' Cookbook becomes illegal when it is owned for the purpose of furthering terrorist activity. Also, the BBC is quite light on details, as it believes it has a mandate to maintain social cohesion, and is therefore reluctant to speculate on the motives of this 'British boy'. This leads the reader to quite naturally draw the conclusion that this is a completely unwarranted attack on a young man's freedom.
Does this mean that anyone how has studied:
Physics
Chemistry
Biology
Computer Science
Also be charged under the Terrorism Act, as they (probably) have documents that would be "useful" in planning a Terrorist Attack. Let's face it, it would seem that the basic human right of the Right to Insurrection, is slowly being removed.
Remember 300 years ago, the founding fathers of the US were considered "Terrorists", as well as William the Conqueror in 1066.
The easiest way for a democratic government to stay in power, is to listen and to act out the will of the people, which is what they were elected for.
This IS censorship. I've seen too much of this in my life...
Wouldn't expect it to happen in Great Britain - the country claims to be very liberal on human rights (a way too much in some cases).
One tip to the British government - if you want to fight some real terrorists, you better start with all the Chechen "rebels" you have given asylum to, not some teenagers.
It really pisses me off, when extremists were (are?) able to openly recruit new volunteers to fight in Chechnya right in the heart of London, when obvious criminals like Pinochet and Beresowsky play with British justice while enjoying their stay in most comfortable apartments in the City, but 17-year old teenagers are prosecuted for a single BOOK they possess.
How long will it take till the government starts to burn forbidden books?
One thing the headline, summary and article itself don't make clear is that this guy had half a kilo of potassium nitrate, 250g of calcium chloride, videos of beheadings and he had recently visited Pakistan. More information article. There's a lot more to this story than "kid reads forbidden book and gets arrested". It sounds more like "this guy looks like he was planning on blowing people up".
Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
Just read through Wikipedia - you can easily gleam enough information on how to turn regular dihydrate oxide into some form of ignition or explosive device just by adding some chemical to it.
Posession of 'the anarchists cookbook' is a crime now? It's about as close to being a useful terrorism manual as my dog is to being prime minister. Never mind though, eh? Anything to keep us 'safe'. We're doomed.
"Physics is to math as sex is to masturbation." -R. Feynman
This is not a mere case of possesion of materials.
Another article is at http://ichuddersfield.icnetwork.co.uk/examiner/news/regional/tm_headline=8216-teen-tried-to-kill-bnp-supporters-8217&method=full&objectid=19904648&siteid=50060-name_page.html
Wow flip I just googled "date rape" and it returned all these links on drugs used, the effect and timing and the mentality behind date rapes and the iraq. I feel so illegal.
*logs onto counterstrike to return some favors*
Never mind. We can't read the Anarchist's Cookbook over here any more but at least we can still wear a flashing LED on our clothing without having guns pointed at us.
Oxford Dictionaries Online
Those of us who have eaten British cuisine will realize fully its hazardous potential.
Yeah, it seems innocent enough, until the kid opens a delicatessen and starts whipping up some kippers & marmite. I'm sorry, but free speech has its limits, and kippers & marmite lie squarely on the other side of it. Blech!
When things get complex, multiply by the complex conjugate.
Knowledge has become illegal.
Could someone try to explain why knowing something is a crime? I know how to build bombs, I know how to create LSD, I have done neither. Why do I know it? Same reason man flew to the moon: It's there, and I wanted.
Did he build a bomb? Did he threaten to use it? Did he do anything resembling a crime besides wanting to know something?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we're getting to where Pol Pot wanted to be: The dumber you are, the better citizen you are. We're really where it is becoming dangerous to know too much. Now you don't only get to be liable for something happening to you if you ought to know what you're doing, now knowledge itself is becoming illegal.
I, for one, don't welcome our new stupid overlords.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
This may confuse many an american who live in a country that isn't free but they think it is. In europe we know we ain't got many of the supposed freedoms of the US of A and more or less, we like it that way. In for instance Holland the rules about banned books is VERY clear, it is the goverment that has banned them and those books are banned and ONLY those books. NO OTHER BOOKS CAN BE BANNED BY ANYONE ELSE!
No withholding funding from libraries that stock books somebody doesn't like. No pressure on printers, no self-censorship. IF the goverment wants to ban something, they got to come out and do it openly.
The US is very different, in theory every book is free, just that libraries that stock the wrong ones get no funding. An even greater evil exists in self-censorship. It allows the politicians to wash their hands off any anti-freedom policy while still having censorship.
Freespeech does not exist (shout fire in a crowded room to see just how free you are) so why even pretend it does exist? Far better to have extremely clear rules about what can and what cannot be said and make it very clear WHO wants it to be that way.
IF the british goverment wants to get rid of the page 3 girl, they would have to do it themselves, directly and show it to the public. In the US, the goverment would just hint at regulation, then the industry would self-regulate and nobody would be any the wiser.
Do I agree with the cookbook being under the terrorism law? No, but at least it is clear who is responsible for it (Labour party/Blair), it is clearly banned, not just not in stock at the local library. You go and live in lala land screaming to yourselve that you got freespeech. I prefer to live in the real world and KNOW what is forbidden and who forbids it. At least that gives me a target.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
before the Columbine massacre and the rest of the bullshit that was going on in that era. I brought it, in printed form, to school and studied it whenever my obligations to school had been fulfilled.
Yes, the intent of the manual was malicious, but I think I gained some insight from it. The computer stuff was obsolete by the time I had it, and the chemical stuff was shaky, at best. However, it inspired me to study science and the potential for change it possessed.
This file contributed more to my love of science than any teacher or professor I've had. Prosecuting kids for being inquisitive is a surefire way to lose one's edge in the natural sciences. Goddammit, don't fuck this up as we have.
...that you should mix equal parts Polystyrene(Styrofoam) and Petrol together to form napalm.
Wouldn't want to force our British friends to accidentally get arrested for unlawful knowledge!
Just -1, Troll talking to another.
Fortunately the boy was charged in the UK. So he can be held for *only* 28 days.
That tell you how to make gunpowder as a lab?
>kippers & marmite
Sounds like a typical Pizza as eaten by Shaggy & Scooby. I just love the combinations they come up with and having a 6yo Scooby loving kid, I can enjoy them all over again.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
One day when I was but a lad of 16, my girlfriend dumped me for a pickup-driving football player who beat me up in gym class. In the subsequent evening alone with my thoughts I wore out my The Cure vinyl by overplaying it, so that the hissing, scratching hiss of the record player formed perfect accompaniment for the wailing and lamentation of my punctured and bleeding heart. As the record starting to skip and I heard Robert Smith wail "-enever I'm al-" over and over, I realized two things:
1. I really #%^%$! hated The Cure.
2. I was going to slit my wrists that very night. It was going to be just like that scene in The Royal Tenenbaums, with Elliot Smith and everything. Elliot Smith is way better than the cure, like, he stuck a freaking knife in his chest, man. Oh wait, maybe I should do that instead...
But then, as I was surfing online for inventive ways to kill myself, I found the Anarchist's Cookbook. That book changed my life forever. Here was someone who was clearly more pathetic than me, and who had obviously failed chemistry to boot. I got a C in chem! If in my life I could say to myself "at least I wasn't that idiot who wrote the Anarchist's Cookbook," that was a life worth living. From that moment on, I renounced all satanic rock music, discovered Christ and placed my life with the Lord, and now I run a successful business as a reseller of fine artist Thomas Kinkade's work. All thanks to the Anarchist's Cookbook. Thank you Lord, for sending me the Anarchist's Cookbook in my time of need.
Where does it end?
This doesn't directly effect me as I don't live in the UK, but sure enough these same undercurrents are affecting my country as well. Terrorism is pushing rationality to breaking point. When I was 12 or 13 I read the Anarchist's Cookbook as well - curiosity gets you at that age. I had no plans to actually use anything from it, and it's unlikely that this kid did either. It's the same interests that lead me to the summer camp that taught us how to make gun powder (shock horror you say in this post 9/11 world!) - science, chemistry and that little pyromaniac who lives inside of every one of us.
The real worry that is brought forth here is that in this case merely the possession of knowledge is a crime. I'm sorry, but a chemistry book I have lists gunpowder and some pretty volatile reactions too - will they charge me with possession of that? I have another Manifesto - am I now a political dissident too? As they whittle down the prerequisites to treated as criminals we shall soon discover more and more of us come under scrutiny...
"In Germany, the Nazis first came for the communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I didn't speak up because I was a protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak for me."
PS. Sorry to Godwin this, but in this case it's actually relevant. =]
http://www.lastgasp.com/d/21573/
Uncle Festor's Silent Death looks fun:
http://www.unclefesterbooks.com/book_sd.html
Any book on pyrotechnics manufacture likely has multiple uses as well.
rec.pyrotechnics FAQ:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/pyrotechnics-faq/
All kinds of fun:
http://www.textfiles.com/anarchy/
... what happens in the UK 28 days later... 8(
... the words "in part" in the summary, suggesting that actually possession of the Anarchist's Cookbook is not terrorism.
A copy into the possession of every MP in parliament?
..the kid committed a 'thought crime'?
Guess what, you insufferable nincompoops? Our government is itself the product of a market system. Cities like New York, London, and San Francisco are successful precisely *because* of their enormous governments--they compete for capital, talent, and prestige against cities with small, ineffectual governments that are unable to effectively lure and corral said capital, talent, and prestige. And as goes the city, so go city-states and nations: Somalia, being a libertarian paradise, is a rather unpleasant place to live for non-ideologues. Somalians, those who can, vote with their feet and leave.
Now go suckle Ayn Rand's rotten tits some more and leave the rest of us alone, you stupid fucking Paultards.
It's almost like children should have some kind of guardian who is responsible for making decisions for them until they're of a certain age.
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
TFA article doens't mention if either kid has ties to any terrorist orgs or what. Maybe both kids have a history of wanting to kill. It could also be a bunch of lawmakers caught up in their own interpretation of sensibility. Don't make a bunch of assumptions only knowing part of the facts. Save that for witch hunting.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
Yeah, same here. I even showed it to the librarian who thought it was "funny". If I did that today, I'd be in prison.
1. (possession of material) for terrorist purposes
and
2. possession of (material for terrorist purposes)
where material = information
It's not clear from the post which of these is the intended meaning of the law. From the article, it seems the guy was doing a lot more than just reading. So, it sounds like #1 is the basis for the arrest, and #2 might not have been applied yet (at least not by this case). It does make you wonder if "reading in a web browser" would fit #2...
--
IANAL, but I play one occasionally just so I know what it would be like to hate myself.
Many duty free shops now publish online catalogs of what people might expect to find in their shops at the airport. The simple possession of this information provides any willing terrorist with a manifest of all the materials they have available to assemble fully functional bombs or at least combustible devices once past the security checks of the airport.
I won't go into details, but yesterday while in the duty free area of a normal international airport, I located all the materials needed walking from the security to the gate that I would need to cause an explosion. Electronics, medium to high concentration alcohol (some "drinkable" spirits and perfumes for example), pressurizable containment, trinkets containing either flint or similar stones, and for a bit of pizzaz, gems (no mandatory function, but if you're gonna do it, might as well do it in class).
So the way I see it is, any terrorist in training could simply go online, check out the materials they'll have available to them, what they cost, where to buy them, etc... and build a test unit. Then they can order a ticket, walk into the airport, do some shopping, board the plane, pay a visit to the bathroom and come out ready to go.
When is the government going to learn that the anarchist cookbook more typically is used by teenagers trying to make cherry bombs to play with in the back yard or to drop in garbage cans to scare people.
If they really want to make a dent in the terrorists, maybe they'd be better off banning chemistry classes from high schools and universities. Maybe a good old book burning would help as well. I've heard rumors that the libraries often carry encyclopedias, those should be censored too. The local liquor stores should be closed at once and perfumes should be regulated. I find these places to be useful for any prospective bomb builder. Banning batteries should also be effective, those little things are at the center of almost every triggering mechanism.
The police, the military, and my parents are terrorist organizations too. Not saying that in a provocative way either (except in the case of my parents ;) )- terrorism is a tactic, not a moral position. You scare the shit out of your adversary, in order to get your way while minimizing or avoiding direct confrontation. Remember shock and awe? That the heck do you think that was? Operation 'Terrorize the Iraqi Army' wouldn't have been so politically correct, but we wanted to scare them so they gave up.
Police live by this tactic, they don't call it that but they know they can't catch everyone so they grab someone and throw the book at them once and a while to send a message.
And take nuclear terrorism, we (the US) INVENTED it. We didn't have enough bombs to level Japan, but we acted like we did and pretty much everyone turning blue in the face over 'the terrorists' these days would say it was a good thing (it probably did save millions of Japanese lives, you have to admit that- they weren't exactly ready to give up). Of course, that wasn't the only city we leveled. Some we leveled more or less to send a message. Some cities weren't great military or industrial centers and were relatively untouched in targeted bombing, so they just made that much more of a statement when the whole thing burned to the ground one night in a massive firestorm.
At any rate, someone in the government needs to look up 'moral superiority' in a dictionary fast. All this emphasis on 'Terrorism (tm)' just makes us look like hypocrites, when we, in strict numerical terms have killed far more old men, women and children than Al Queda ever has (not that they're not working on it...). That's just a fact. Americans have killed lots of innocent people and when you look at the justifications, you cannot deny that many of these people were killed simply to scare, demoralize and disorient our enemies. Sure we were fighting Nazis, but we forget sometimes 'the good war' was pretty much the most unholy fucking disaster to ever befall mankind. Taking the lesser evil, even the far lesser one, requires one to do evil, and we only came out 'clean' by comparison. Al Queda are horrible people and they need to die, but just saying they're terrorists and we're not isn't going to convince anyone other than ourselves.
Al Queda chops people's fucking heads off if they shave or sneak a sip of whiskey. It should NOT have been hard to convince the Arab world these people are a dead end. You see, it's a simple (but not easy) war to win- the moderates who make up the majorities of these countries turn against the extremists. We just had to help them- and yet we couldn't even do that. It was a PR war all along and we lost it so fast no one noticed. We've been so determined to hunt grasshoppers with our howitzers, we missed a pretty obvious point: the average modern war, even one conducted with restraint, is a absolute PR nightmare. So much so, I often wonder if Al Queda WANTED us to invade Afghanistan.
Soft power used to be our greatest asset, you know, the Statue of Liberty, Elvis records, cheeseburgers. That's what really brought down the Iron Curtain, enough people finally saw us and said, 'screw this, we're doing it their way'. Our enemies were dying to hang themselves and when they had enough rope the alternative for their oppressed people was obvious.
Nowadays in the Muslim word, seeing your broken Government and thinking it would be great to do things the American way is a good way to get your head chopped off. So if they fall, it sure won't be the democratic types taking over.... We've conducted the worst advertising campaign for democracy in the history of democracy and are clearly our own worst enemy.
Or people with non-mainstream religious beliefs. Or people with an unusual interest in firearms. Ooops, idolizing certain subversive figures, and using quotes ("Those who choose a little security...") from great historical figures out of context. Being too interested in the job the police are doing - someone is watching the watchers, don't worry... but it's not going to be you, citizen.
And the list goes on...
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
They might be planning to rape somebody and escape the FBI, just like the action thriller book.
"why we need to "prevent" terrorism and other crimes."
Sounds like you're assuming possession of The Anarchists Cookbook equates to terrorism, which is the problem with this Blair law.
I became a criminal the day my guns were made illegal, and my right to bear them was taken away.
I became a criminal the day I refused to pay increases taxes based on the view out of my window.
I became a criminal the day I refused to hand over my DNA just in case I commit a crime.
Today I have become a criminal for wanting to know what the terrorists know.
Now I am four times a criminal, yet I have performed no action, changed no opinion or spoken a single word out loud.
I am British, and I am proud?
n/t
If the book were sitting on his nightstand, bound and in physical form, there would be no problem here, perhaps. At least I hope there wouldn't. The debacle is probably due to that ever-so-bewildering element of digital devices to over-complicate the legal process into such distorted and out of shape lines of thought as criminalizing the digital theft of a piece of media far more than the physical theft of the same media. Maybe it's due to ignorance and and the puffed-up and over emphasized importance placed upon computers in this so-called "digital age" as they directly aid so few of us yet completely mystify the great majority of us that we're seeing these trends such as the translation of the ASCI words of a .txt file into something perceived as far more dangerous and threatening than the printed words of a book. One could also suppose that it is the same phenomenon that transforms the digitized violence of a video game into being more harmful than that which is featured on film. Such is the result of extreme ignorance by a great majority of the populace and the nature of the powers that be to placate this populace with ineffective, unnecessary and and unfair judgments such as this one that make no sense to the rest of us, those few that are left to marvel at the situation and hope that somehow, someday everybody else will get a clue. And maybe one day the use of a computers won't immediately baffle authorities into letting fear and ignorance direct their actions instead of common sense.
The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
Watch as you relentlessly whore karma by stating something that has been said by hundreds of other thousands of times before and pretend it's new, insightful, or both.
It doesn't say in the article, but I'm guessing the guy is a Muslim.
Is there some kind of race going on between the major democratic republics of the world to see who can reach 'police state' status first?
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
very European. I thought the Brits despised all things continental?
When the Iraqi interim government was writing their constitution, Robin Williams comment to the affect of "take ours, we're not using it anymore"...
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
Was great fun when I was a kid, many a happy hour was spent making homemade fireworks out of household ingredients...
When my dad was a kid however, he was able to pop round to local chemical factories and buy all sorts of interesting stuff over the counter. This resulted in the demolition of his garden wall... fantastic.
I wonder how much terrorism levels have actually declined as a result of banning texts and substances. If someone really wants to commit acts of terrorism, I can't imagine it's hard to figure out ways to do so. All that we've done is make it slightly more difficult to obtain ready-made ingredients. In that light, how exactly does possesion of a (rather innacurate yet very popular amongst teenagers) text make it any more likely that the individual concerned will actually go out and commit acts of terror (disregarding Halloween of course)?
Who the hell thought it would be a good idea to BOIL a steak, anyway? Or to make a pie out of meat? When I bite into a piece of pie, I don't want to taste boiled beef and vegetables for the love of God!
BTW, to the original poster: I know you relish the hours you spent downloading and reading the original Anarchist Cookbook in text format, and that the knowledge it contained allowed you to feel empowered and to compensate for your flaccid and useless pre-teen body, but the world has changed just a little bit in the last 20 years. Fucking get over yourself already. I've read it too, and I can say that there's plenty of info in there that could get you accidentally killed if you tried to make the recipes without the proper background in chemistry. Even if you did have a good working knowledge of chemical reactions and safe chemical handling practices, the mere possession of most of the substances/devices listed in that book is enough to land you in jail in just about any country, not just Britain or the USA. And if your only goal is to make your own gun powder, why bother? It's far easier, cheaper, and safer to buy it from an online retailer or at a gun show.
... I'm just gonna go move some files around. My copy of the anarchists cookbook is in my 'plausible deniability' Truecrypt partition. Maybe it should be in the hidden one...
Give us this day our garlic bread and lead us not into vegetarianism but deliver us some pizza.
Sedition, Terrisom, Treason
Fuck the govenment. I will not give up out freedoms for perceved security. NO way im subjecting my unbourne children to a world where free thinking, free flow of information is controlled. Where suggesting a revolution is punishable.
Get Mad, and get Mad NOW!
>Back in the midsts of time
That'd be "mists of time", or perhaps the "depths of time".
HTH. HAND.
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So cant let your citizens have knowledge. Regardless of their intent. So book burning has effectivly started again. The world is screwed.
Just for the record that particular book is pretty lame anyway.. It was mostly propaganda fluff to get sales. There are a lot "worse" out there, like the 'chemical abstracts'.. Guess they need to ban science too? Oh, and i guess they stopped teaching people in their army too? You know they get out of the forces eventually, and they dont just forget what they learned.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
... or am I the only one in the UK who has a copy printed from the downloadable version - and has had it borrowed by the local police, photocopied ('cause they're too lazy to get their own downloaded) and then returned intact? (a reader here for a couple of years and my first post on /.)
Fortunately the boy was charged in the UK. So he can be held for *only* 28 days.
Surely that's how long you can be held without charge? (Which the Labour Government wanted to raise to 90 days.)
Obviously once people have been charged, they can be held for much longer whilst they await trial.
The Article:
>>> "The first charge relates to the possession of material for terrorist purposes in October last year.
The second relates to the collection or possession of information useful in the preparation of an act of terrorism. "
So basically the Police are charging him with "possession of materials" that are modified for, or clearly indicate, terrorist activity (they'd just observe him otherwise to wait for some real evidence and look for co-conspirators, etc.). The fact he had the anarchist cookbook just means that they can also accuse him of "possession of information useful in the preparation of an act of terrorism".
Now whether that second charge requires the information to be being used to prepare for an apparent act of terrorism or not I don't know. But the BBC article seems quite clear that the possession of information is secondary.
Never forget that in the UK, you are not a citizen. You are a "subject" of the crown.
And in the USA, there's a reason why all law enforcement personnel always refer to any person who is not also a member of law enforcement as a "subject".
If you study history, you'd know that in fact they were ready to give up. Some of the generals didn't want to give up, but the emperor did and was ready to surrender. The nuclear bombs were entirely unnecessary and just caused a large and needless loss of civilian life.
That's actually not true at all. The fact of the matter is, and this was actually corroborated by a British study taken by a bunch of liberals seeks to prove American war guilt in the 1990s, and they themselves (being scientists first, and politicians second), came to the shocking conclusion that:
a) Emperor Hirohito was actually one of the prime movers behind the war, and the whole "crazy general" thing is something McArthur cooked up in the occupation.
b) Japan was sending out peace feelers through Russia, but there peace offers would have left Japan with China, Singapore, and more.
c) The Japanese, unlike the Germans, had actually correct guessed the locations of where a theoretical American landing (Operation Olympic) would have been, and had prepared a large number of kamikaze aircraft (also unlike the Germans), to contest those landings.
d) The atomic bomb removed, in the Japanese eyes, the thought of any island defense. If the Americans could simply destroy Japan from the air with the atomic bomb, there could be no resistance.
The bottom line is, the Emperor started the war, fought it, and ultimately only surrendered when it was clear that the atomic bomb made it utterly impossible for Japan to continue fighting. Without the bomb, the Emperor would have never surrendered. Thus, bomb the city, let the Japanese emperor off the hook but hang all of his generals, and made him a puppet of Douglas MacArthur, in order to get legitimacy for all the changes MacArthur rammed through the Japanese system.
The a-bomb was good. It ended the war early, and put Japan well on her way to becoming a more modern nation.
Unfortunately, current American foreign policy of demonizing foreign leaders actually precludes us from winning the peace whereever we fight. Imagine how little resistance there would be if we had invaded Iraq, actually KEPT SADDAM IN POWER, and made him an American puppett to quell a Sunni uprising before it started.
This is my sig.
And their hackers publish forbidden books on the Internet and then they goes after you because of your terrorist training.
?
You are truly brilliant, sir.
Do you read every other page, or only page numbers ending in "e"?
You left out the part where those generals were ready to kill the emperor if he tried to surrender.
I think it was on page 294, or 296. Hope that helps.
By the way, there were probably several times _more_ Japanese lives saved by the two N-bombs than were lost by them. Do the math -- say x Japanese are dying per day from conventional bombing. Then if, for example, 10x Japanese died from the two nuclear bombs but they shortened the war by a month then we have a winner. Some people just don't like seeing "winner" and "two nuclear bombs" in the same sentence. To those people I suggest go hug a tree.
P.S. All you really need to know about dropping the two bombs is that Harry S Truman decided it was ok. One of the most intelligent men ever to lead a country and certainly the most-well-respected-by-his-troops president to have lead in battle (WW1). HST actually read and made up his own mind about what was put on his desk, unlike other presidents. [I'm a Canuck for those loading their flame throwers.] Check out "Plain Speaking" for more on the man.
I come here for the love
I suppose next they'll be blocking YouTube in UK, because those "Diet Coke and Mentos Rockets" are potentially terrorist missiles ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkkOUPYNs7I
How was the kid- or for that matter, anyone- to know that the book is considered illegal?
Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far they can go. T. S. Eliot
So when does the book burning begin? It's beginning to look like the UK expects it's people to give up their freedom if they want to keep it.
...don't need their government's permission to own a book.
British food is the blandist sh** you have ever tasted.
Clearly you have no clue.. traditional British food such as chicken tikka masala or a fine vindaloo is not bland in any way shape or form!
The best way to protect children is to arrest them. Because reform school and prison is really the best way to protect children who read the wrong books.
Perhaps we need firemen assigned to this task.
Every high school across the country has its little group of kids in the upper sets who all have copies of the cookbook, as well as the much better and more releveant SWATeam (south west anarchy) C00kB00k and various anarchy zines/newsletters and we've, I mean they've for fear of being arrested, all made a few things out of it. Its a bit of fun and this is just another example of Labour being ever more keen to keep us all in fear and quite easy to mould into their ridiculous ID card carrying public they so strongly desire. I only hope there's no early election so that come next year I'll be able to vote along with many thousands of disgruntled seventeen going on eighteen year olds who are sick of living under this regieme.
"..So much so, I often wonder if Al Queda WANTED us to invade Afghanistan...."
Not exactly. No one in the world cared much about Afghanistan. But Iraq, that was a different matter.
Iraq and Iran had been fighting each otherfor the last ten years. America supported Iraq in an attempt to knock the stuffing out of Iran. So Iran wanted Iraq overthrown.
Do you remember all those stories about Iraq looking for Uranium, and planning 'weapons of mass destruction'? Where do you think they came from? Yup, planted by SAVAK and MOIS. We knew so little about the area, we walked into a classic patsy feed.
Iran knew that, once the Ba'ath party had been ousted, Shiites were the most numerous group in Iraq and, properly led, would take the country over. That's what's happening. And soon Iraq will merge with Iran, and Iran will be the biggest power in the region.
The Kurds in the north are due to be slaughtered by the Turks. That's beginning right now.
Our problem is that we can't elect anyone intelligent. You heard it here first!
Britain is a police state. No doubt about that. The next election has been deferred until Gordon Brown can work out how to make it a criminal offence not to vote for him.
..... just under most people's radar. It's mostly stupid people who get caught, and frankly they're no great loss.
..... though this one was about paedophilia, not terrorism ..... it's saying something when the two are virtually interchangeable). The deep underground movement ..... well, if you haven't heard of it, you're not meant to hear of it.
However, there is a healthy population of outlaws. Dope smoking, movie downloading, blowing things up and dancing all night are alive and well
Britain is basically two countries in one. The mainstream media, with its split personality (turning ordinary people into mindless, celebrity-obsessed chavs and simultaneously castigating them for being that way) created the whole mess (and look at this from 2001 for an example of mainstream-media hypocrisy
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Boy, you're in a heap ' O trouble.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Fahrenheit 451 is not about censorship
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
is Terrorism
This is essentially the establishment of a thought crime.
The best way to protest this is to print out a bunch of copies, and then set up a booth outside the courthouse giving them away for free.
I was a carnivore the last time I was in Britain, and the meat dishes ranged from the above to really good. Now that I'm vegetarian, there's less of traditional English cooking that's interesting, but some of it's still good, especially the cheeses, and of course the best place in the world to get Indian food is London (though I tend to prefer the southern Indian cuisines which were less common there.)
Another poster put out a list of foods and asked which the bad ones were, with the desired conclusion of the two American dishes - hamburgers and hot dogs. Sorry, wrong answer, even though you're picking out German-American dishes as opposed to English-American. Hot dogs are pretty dreadful imitations of their German predecessors, but cooking them over fire helps, and I've had Chicken Tikka Masala that's almost as bad and bangers that are worse. And hamburgers can be cooked badly, but good hamburgers are hard to beat - with good meat cooked over fire (or even fried at the right temperature) on a good toasted bun with onions and optionally some decent ketchup.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Suck Brown's cock and enjoy your Panopticon Paradise, pant-shitters.
Do you feel safe from the Big Bad Bearded Man now?
Bunch of pant-shitters. The smell must be awful where you live, wallowing in your own feces, trembling with fear.
Doesn't mean 100 others won't have it. Since there is no legit 'banning' of a book it will be available at most outlets. Most of your 'examples' to the contrary are mere speculative tin-foil theories anyway which have little to do with it.
I'm also currently reading "In Defense of Anarchism" by Robert Paul Wolff for a philosophy class. Come and get me facisist!
You were critically hit for no damage. The bruise will look nice, and maybe the scars will make good party talk.
On one hand it sounds like the UK govt are the german nazi's with the whole book-burning thing. Which is extremely disturbing.
But, i find it very hard to believe that the UK govt would hole up a teenager for no reason other than this. It sounds a little implausible.
But, of course, the world has gone slightly psycho when it comes to anything that could vaguely be interpreted at terrorism. I half expect to read about how some guy's dog did a cr*p on the lawn at a park when he just happened to have a clear line of site to George W Bush and so he got arrested for using his dog to drop a bomb that could have been used to kill the president of the USA.
its interesting that alot of what our societies were built on was to protect against such ridiculous and draconian control over the populace!
Sounds like the UK needs a modern day Guy Fawkes. Only the modern one needs to succeed in blowing up Parliament.
Speaking of that, if anybody in the RTP (NC) area is interested in having some sort of Guy Fawkes Night event this year, gimme a shout. I'm thinking we should co-opt the British holiday and celebrate the Guy Fawkes of the world, maybe burn an effigy of a cop or George Bush, instead of an effigy of Fawkes. Make it a celebration of the spirit of those who would oppose The State. After all, historically us lot here in the U.S. have taken ideas like Freedom and Liberty a little more seriously than our British kin.
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
That pretty much covers every bit of knowledge known to man. So they can arrest anyone they wish using this law. That was, no doubt, the entire point.
-- Will program for bandwidth
As the current administration has so capably demonstrated, it has no qualms about going after anyone.
They obviously have not gone after you. You are living counterevidence to your own point.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That's a very trusting view. I hope you're right, but I strongly suspect you're not.
If Pakistan can have corrupt government, and the U.S. can have corrupt government, then why on earth would the U.K. be exempt? The common factor among nations is that humans are in charge of running things, and until there is a definitive test for psychopathy and penalties for greed, then no government deserves any level of trust, especially when it comes to cases like this. --The kid in question is most likely going to be nailed to the wall, innocent or not. The government cannot afford for him to be innocent. I'm surprised he and his family members were not accidentally gunned down by trigger happy police who later absolved themselves of wrongdoing through liberal use of PR spin and a media more than happy to play along. Wouldn't have been the first time.
-FL
Please leave a box of tissues in the back seat!
Aphorisms don't fix code. (Bart Smaalders)
I have myself read several Tom Clancy novels describing in detail several different methods of killing people. Does that make me guilty of conspiring to commit terrorism? I hope not. Yet, I feel that the methods described in the Tom Clancy novels are more reliable for effective terrorism than the Anarchist's Cookbook.
Surely this is one more step towards thought-crime? Fair enough, if a terrorist incident occurs, or the authorities believe it will occur, then question him, search his house and detain him for up to 48 hours, fine. BUT - if he's done nothing except read this book, then for God's sake, let him go. This is the sort of thing the Russian Tsars used to execute people for.
Can you believe it? This book is available to uy in the UK through Amazons UK site (amazon.co.uk)! Does this mean Amazon are sponsoring terrorism? heh ;)
Don't try this at home kids:
...
http://www.lateralscience.co.uk/ymboa/ymboa.html
I badly would like to have this, too sad that I'll have to wait until March. Wait! Which year would that be?
Why can't I have this? I would even pay! This can't possibly be considered dangerous, it was printed in 1854 and mankind didn't kill itself off yet.
Oh well - can't have everything I guess
Je me souviens.
-
Physics books...
-
Chemistry books....
-
English books (for preparing effective demands letters).
-
Photography and arts (for preparing terrorist training materials
- Computing Science (for calculating the best mixtures)
- Human Kinetics (to learn how to carry the bomb).
(you might as well burn the libraries, too).OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
Well hell, son . . . a pocket knife could be used to terrorize. They can have my knife when they pry it out of my cold dead hands.
If you RTFA, you'll see that the terrorism charge stems from having "material for terrorist purposes", unrelated to posessing the book. He was collecting the materials necessary to make bombs or other terrorist devices with the intent to use them that way. That's why the charge says "purposes".
You can buy ammonium nitrate. You can buy diesel fuel. That's not a crime, by itself. Put the ammonium nitrate onto your garden, and the fuel into your diesel car. End of story.
If you don't have a diesel vehicle of any kind, though, you might have to explain why you bought the combination of the two. If they find out you have a book that tells you how to make BOMBS out of the combination, well, it would appear your intent is to make a bomb.
Even then, there are acceptable reasons to do that. Farmers, sometimes, need to remove tree stumps from areas they are going to plant. Boom. Stump gone. Not terrorism.
If you cannot persuade them that your intent is not criminal, you get charged. You get charged with having the material with an intent, and they'll throw in the book as evidence of the intent. I.e., why did you buy an-fo? Because the book says that's how to make a bomb.
Just having the book isn't illegal and doesn't show an intent, other than to own the book. Owning the book and buying the things it tells you to buy to make a bomb indicates an intent to make a bomb. That's when it's illegal.
So when are they going to ban all chemistry books, seeing how any simple chemistry book can lead to an act of terrorism? Come to think of it, biochemistry too, and physics, and just about anything else they teach in the sciences. Books concerning any kind of weapon, like how to clean your gun? Books about how to stage civil disobedience, peaceful or not?
Slippery slope may be a fallacious form of reasoning but this sure seems like a law just begging to be used for massive censorship, especially when the government gets to define "terrorism" and the public is, well, not exactly complaining about anything.
has been revoked.
PatRIOTically,
President-VICE Richard B. Cheney
genesis p orridge was kicked out of england for possessing books on witchcraft over 5 years ago
the uk has some very silly laws on possession of information
back in the day we didnt have no old school
So here's my list:
Apple Pie, meatloaf, the casserole family (broccoli, hamburger, etc), bacon & eggs either scrambled on toast or cooked sunnyside up, Pancakes, waffles, steak or pot roast with mashed potatoes and gravy, peanut butter sandwiches, tuna salad.
There is another list for each of the regions, the midwest/Texas, the South/Lousiana, West Coast/California, East coast/Boston.
Oh and one final tip: Don't eat anyone elses' meatlof.
They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
Cartman: I'll use this situation to get Family Guy cancelled. I use fear to manipulate people to do my bidding.
Bart Simpson: Uh, isn't that like terrorism?
Cartman: Dude, it's not like terrorism! It is terrorism!
In soviet russia... Wait. Now we're going to have to change that.
In the UK, knowledge owns you!
Sucks to be the kid who went to bed one night in a free country and woke up the next day under an oppressive thought-crime regime just as bad as the worst soviet-era oppression stereotypes...
If they think that text file was bad, wait until they catch some poor kid with the preamble to the US declaration of independence. THAT guy is going to be in for it.
In Soviet Russia, the Anarchist's Cookbook possesses YOU.
It seems like for there to be a conspiracy-esque charge, there would have to be an element of capability.
The anarchist cookbook is about the single most useless file in existance. 13 year olds are harmless for a reason. Their time is better invested tracking oxygen and acetylene containers. I learned more about explosives in a week on a forum or in a welding class than I have ever learned from text files.
It's 100% garbage.
Fuck the UK. It wouldn't surprise me if UK cops are as clueless as the citizens and think the AC is actually dangerous information.
This is the type of shit you get when a country embraces ignorance and helplessnesss. For 1: Cops are just citizens with badges and their competance to protect you goes downhill right with your own ability to protect yourself.
If possession of the Anarchist Cook Book is Terrorism what is possession of weapons by the UK Government? That certainly classifies as Terrorism! Oh, and they actually use them to kill people too, that is actual Terrorism carried out in fact by the Government. The UK Government is guilty of Terrorism just by possession weapons and by actually using them.
The rule of Law doesn't work if the laws don't apply to ALL PEOPLE in the country in question. It's interesting that most laws are written to exclude members of the Government. That's very convenient way to set up a two tier society: those with immunity for crimes they commit in Governments name, and those that are subject to the laws. That's the height of arrogance by those who think that they have sovereign powers.
Sovereign powers are an illusion created by some in order that they can rule others through force and intimidation and yes, terrorist tactics even if they are in the name of self defense.
All those in Government are to be assumed guilty of terrorism unless otherwise proved innocent in a war crimes trial conducted by people who have never served government in any capacity what so ever. Let the war crimes investigations of world governments begin.
The second relates to the collection or possession of information useful in the preparation of an act of terrorism."
Now whether that second charge requires the information to be being used to prepare for an apparent act of terrorism or not I don't know.
No, in the UK it is an offense to possess *any* information that *may* be useful in preparation of an act of terrorism.
This includes but is not limited to an A-Z map book of any UK city, any telephone books, the electoral roll, timetables for any public transport, tourist maps, signs indicating the location of public toilets and other amenities.
In short, all forms of knowledge are illegal in the UK.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
The second relates to the collection or possession of information useful in the preparation of an act of terrorism.
That could be anything. A road map, rail pass, bus ticket, blueprints...just about anything on paper could be useful in preparing an act of terrorism.
This whole war on terror is getting loony. The real terrorists are probably laughing their ass off watching us twist ourselves in knots.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I mean just the portion stating "in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals" could cover literally ANYTHING. Anything at all!
Speaking out against a politician or policy might be covered under "national security" or "prevention of disorder or crime" or even "the protection of health and morals." This clause basically eviscerates any pretension of free speech rights. If the government does like it, it can accuse you of disturbing public order, threatening national security or territorial integrity, or even advocating an immoral position. I can only imagine what would've happened to the American Civil Rights movement had our government had this huge of a loophole to go right through!
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I think this is the first time I've ever seen someone support government censorship and not get modded to oblivion.
As to what you said, I'm glad you are happy with the government censoring you, but frankly, I think you're an idiot. I'll take local governments who I can oust effectively, local organizations who I can sue effectively, and local individuals who I can debate effectively over the faceless machine that is the government.
You can justify it however you like, but your point is ridiculous on its face, and the mods who modded you up deserve a KITN.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
Are you confusing police states with dictatorships?
OP's paranoia about Brown not holding elections this year aside, the UK is still a democracy. However, it's still a police state -- a democratic police state in which the will/fears of the majority run roughshod over civil rights of those on the outskirts of society.
The UK is in many ways what I fear the US becoming -- a country governed by fear of insecurity and a more orderly form of mob rule. It's far more likely than us directly becoming a dictatorship since we very much demand an orderly change of power on a regular schedule.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Amazon also Mein Kampf (illegal in several european countries) and David Hamillton (images illegal again in several countries but not the same) so that at least proves nothing. I thought that the book in question was on a banned list similar to Mein Kampf. IF that is not the case, my case still stands, it should be CLEAR what is illegal and what is not. IF the law in question only makes it possible to consider the anarchists cookbook illegal then that is exactly what I think is extremely wrong with the US system of freedom of speech unless we say otherwise.
The law should never be left open to interpretation to the mood of the moment.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
We've been there for years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crimes
Where was all your outrage when those laws got passed?
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
Where we have the all inclusive 1st Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. (void where prohibited by law)
What?
What the BBC have conveniently forgotten to mention is that the boy is part of the significant Muslim community in Dewsbury, and the intended targets were members of the British National Party (BNP) who have made inroads in said area regarding their stance on immigration to the UK.
Regardless of the party views, they are legitimate and blowing them up is not the way to behave in a civilized society, otherwise said community would have been long gone by now for their own alleged views on the majority.
Children yes. But don't forget the retarded also.
We like to cook them up, too.
Pemmican and popcorn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemmican
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popcorn
"What's illegal is acting on this hate."
Except that's already covered, and the hate crime laws cover what you THINK while acting on the hate.
What a surprise, you rail against "thoughtcrime" yet ignore a real life example because it goes against your politics.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
In the UK, Possession of the Anarchist's Cookbook Is Terrorism
Possession of what isn't an act of terrorism in the UK?
We tried to make Saddam an American puppet twenty years ago. Didn't work out so well...
Is there anything that ISN'T a crime in the UK?
They can come in and access terrorist teachings like this on the internet connection hooked up to your computer, therefore you are a terrorist.
So where's the torrent? ;P
(uhh, J/K, to any NSA computer out there!)
When I emigrated from the UK I left my copy with my brother.
Let's hope he's managed to lose it in the interim....
True, but it was always more complicated than that. We helped them fight Iran, because we didn't like Iran. When they started to get the upper hand, though, we backed off. We never wanted him to win, because we didn't want ANYBODY to win. The truth of the matter is we didn't like ANY of these leaders too much, but we used the fact they didn't like each other either to play them against each other and keep them weak.
If anyone is a real puppet, it's Saudi Arabia. The Saudi royal family is hardly an democracy to be, but it's them or the wahabbis, and we certainly want the royals instead (plus gas). Of course we know now this pissed off at least 19 of them...
The day we can afford to tell all those people where to stick their oil is the day everyone will be better off.
Watch as they call me an extremist for suggesting that crime prevention is an absurd attempt to trade freedom for security and will *never* work.
But this isn't about crime prevention, it's about punishing someone who has already committed a crime, (ie. possession). Moreover, there is no trading of freedom here either, UK citizens have never had a right to freedom of speech.
How much time do I get for possessing Fahrenheit 451?
J
Have you ever read "A man called Intrepid?" The British Secret Service in WW2 used to hand out such information to partisans (printed on rice paper so it could be eaten or otherwise easily destroyed by captured agents) and to their own citizens at the time when they feared invasion. During WW2, they were actively organizing a guerilla warfare campaign in occupied europe, and preparing a campaign of resistance given the real possibility that they themselves would be overrun by Hitler.
My rights don't need management.
The often neglected factor in the surrender of Japan was Russia. The US did not want Stalin to come late and get a piece of the cake, so a hasty end had to be made and the Bombs fell. History books often omit this.
Although we all know it has nothing to do with security and everything to do with preventing embarrassment and criticism. The uselessness of security through obscurity doesn't matter if you don't care about security in the first place.
Well I have a 4kg canister of pure military-research-lab-grade dihydrogen oxide (an extremely potent agent critical to the manufacture of high grade explosives). And I have a 2kg canister of denatured hydroxyethane which is also highly volatile and flammable - it can be used in high-impulse thermobaric weapons.
If you start to mix some of these sorts of ingredients together (BE CAREFUL, THEY'RE VERY DANGEROUS!), you could have a terrorist bomb in no time.
In my case there is no need for alarm, as they're not under my bed.
"and don't use the cheap/disgusting parts of the animal like tongue, stomach, high fat areas."
Hmm. An odd dichotomy here. We, unlike "noble savages" are so wasteful of our foodstuffs. Yet when we find that sausages are mechanically recovered meat (and ears, noses etc) we go eeuuuwwww.
As to the list, these appear in UK dinners often:
Apple Pie, the casserole family (broccoli, hamburger, etc), bacon & eggs either scrambled on toast or cooked sunnyside up,, steak or pot roast with mashed potatoes and gravy.
And one thing that is definitively British is the steamed pudding.
We also have a great quisine for leftovers (such as the hotpot and caserole) but also bubble and squeak, cobbler, bangers and mash, faggots, stew, spotted dick and upside down pudding.
British food is much like northern europe food because it's cold (so you have the fire on all the time) and so you don't mind using cheap old meat because you'll cook it slow over the day. That means you get to shear the sheep, milk the cow or breed the pigs for a long time and THEN terminate it's productivity by cooking it at the end of a long life. This old meat does require a lot of sauce (e.g. good gravy) to ensure it stays moist and some herbs and so on help bring out flavours (which are more plentiful in wet britain than freezing norway), so the flavours of stews are important and easy to get.
The sandwich was basically something to hold the filling in a hand-friendly package. Pasties were the ORIGINAL packed lunch. Old-style was one half savoury (rabbit, chichen, pork, steak, etc) and the other half sweet (jam or similar). One half main course, the other the pudding. Only one clean package to eat.
The Ontario general election on October 10 (tomorrow) will include a referendum on replacing the current "first past the post" system with a "mixed member proportional" one.
Unfortunately, the both largest parties (Liberals and PC) have been flooding the media with FUD and got most people convinced to vote against it.
Between the ignorant voting against it and the apathetic not showing up, I have very low expectations of it passing.
But modding me down doesn't make that swill you call food any better, you snaggletooth fucks.
I only go to buffets for the unlimited soft serve.
I cut the carnivore ACs balls off! I shot and ate the vegetarian AC!
Hah! (love AC flame wars)
You are right that the US is very different. I did not realize the people of Holland allowed the government to ban the books they could read. Seems unwise -- O Holland, arise!
Library funding is not monolithic, as you seem to suggest. Libraries are for the most part funded by city and county municipalities across the fifty states, which makes them extremely decentralized. There are several thousand such independent governments in the USA. They really are quite independent, too: they collect their own taxes and elect their own politicians. Excluding school libraries (which are often censored), libraries are so far outside the bailiwick of the federal government that it would be almost impossible for them to influence acquisitions on a large scale. Most importantly, the current ethos of librarians is, fortunately, extremely in favor of privacy and intellectual freedom. Book censorship in libraries is not currently a problem area, thanks in large measure to these professional bulldogs for freedom.
Non-government imposed "censorship" is a problem in other areas, such as take-down notices on YouTube for meritless copyright infringement claims, or (some say) in academia. But the feds aren't responsible for this.
And of course the current government is an appalling mess regarding
- habeas corpus
- torture
- Fourth amendment
- free speech in peaceable assemblies
- freedom of the press
- widespread corruption
. . . and I am at least as disgusted as you are.$META_SIG_JOKE
I heard a talk by Peter Ackerman of this organization, discussing the history of nonviolent revolution in the 20th Century and arguing that it's more effective than violence at replacing tyrannical governments with democratic ones. I asked him about the rise of mass surveillance and how that would affect nonviolent strategy, and his position seemed to be that people will still find a way to play cat-and-mouse with repressive governments through continued competition. (See eg. the recent article on Chinese censorship.) Still, I'm skeptical of how any resistance movement could work in a country where there's effectively a low-level AI assigned to monitoring every single person at all times. The best defense against an oppressive state may be to force transparency on government, as David Brin has argued in "The Transparent Society."
Revive the Constitution.