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FBI May Have Datamined Grocery Stores With Help From Credit Companies
An anonymous reader writes "Recent media reports indicate that in 2005-06, the FBI went trawling through grocery store records in order to track down Iranian terror cells. They hoped to locate 'Middle-Eastern terrorists' through the purchase of specific food items. Many of these items, though, are not sold through big-box supermarket chains, and the majority of mom and pop ethnic markets do not have the detailed computer purchase histories that Safeway or Whole Foods have. What the FBI seems to have done is instead put together a list of everyone who shopped at a Middle Eastern food market. All signs point to the credit card companies providing this data, and not the individual stores. If so, this could be the tip of a (potentially illegal) data-mining iceberg."
Falafil Inc. sues the FBI for defamation of character and loss of business.
My poetry site welcomes the unusual.
data-mining iceberg lettuce hovercraft eel overflow
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Because people who grew up having to make their own food from scratch are going to suddenly stop doing that and start buying the Kraft brand.
Why not just say anyone of middle-eastern descent is automatically a threat? That's basically what it's come down to. How in the world is food purchasing data related to terror suspects. Alienation only leads to more strife. This doesn't do anything but make relations worse.
I got a catholic block.
and his lufah!
This combined with the "secret room" In ATT for the NSA, and no need for FISA court (which the judges themselves angry). Full disclosure, full steam ahead!
You can't have a decent scandal without a snappy catchphrase.
So my love of Lebanese food will make me a marked man?
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
Better put Bill O'Reilly on the airport watch list then.
I always use cash when I go to Achmed's Food Emporium with his "special" back room full of "good deals".
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Quit sending Men In Black with their shaded-window cars into my shop! They're scaring away my customers!
Buying hunting ammunition? Pay cash. Buying food? Cash. Fireworks? Cash. Whether I have a reason to or not. And don't get me started on those "in-store discount cards".
If that's not racial profiling, I don't know what is?
:-P
Getting the information on anyone who purchased food at a Middle Eastern market? That's just crazy, and scarily over-broad.
Hell, I shop at Middle Eastern markets, and I'm about as pasty white as you get. I mean, where else am I gonna get some of those things? You can't buy them elsewhere, and they're just so damned yummy. Come to think of it, I shop at Latin Markets, Asian Markets, and Caribbean Markets -- does that make me a terrorist? Or merely someone who eats a lot of ethnic food?
This is like that now eerie joke about being arrested at an airport for "traveling while brown". Surely it's still legal and un-suspicious to buy ethnic food for crying out loud -- they're the only ones who have food worth eating.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I like how the article linked as a source ("All signs point to...") contains the phrase: I have no sources at all for my argument today. I have nothing to back it up other than a gut feeling.
If you read the CQ article, which is the only source of information here (the other two rely on it totally), it is not clear that this idiotic program was ever implemented to any extent whatever. It may have just been some words written on a napkin after a late night of drunken FBI 'brain'-storming.
I'm patiently waiting for the FBI to knock on my door and arrest me for all the ingredients I used (digested) in my attempts to create the perfect stink bomb.
so people are all bent out of shape that the GOVT is using data-mining, but it is ok for the big corps to do it?????
i think people should get their heads on straight and not just rail against the govt for this. it is something done by every major company. DUH! Unless you pay cash for EVERYTHING people know what you are up to and use that information to their advantage. Blows my mind you will get pissed off at the govt (OH yeah forgot pissed at GW Bush) but not at the corps in general.
Do credit card companies actually know itemized purchases from a grocery store? This would be required in order to find who actually purchases these highly specific terrorist-food items. Oh, and don't use a credit card if you're a terrorist (for the beginners).
Either the authorities will engage in racial profiling, which will affect Americans of Middle Eastern descent, or they'll do this kind of half-assed correlation game based on a person's tastes, which affects Americans who like chickpeas and tahini.
How many John Walker Lindhs are out there? Tim McVeigh didn't shop at Omar's Halal Grocery...
Also, what did they do with said list? Surely datamining usually begins with selecting a population and narrowing down based on some criteria, so you have to start with a large population (although I'm not condoning anything the FBI is doing), which puts this pretty much exactly in line with pure McCarthyism - just replace "red" or "communist" with "arab" or "terrorist".
What's scarier, that the credit card companies might be in bed with the government as much as telecoms, or what the FBI will do with their probably ineffective data?
Quiz: True or False -- On a scale of 1 to 10, what is your middle name?
They are also private companies, you probably never saw any usage agreement and maybe weren't even aware that they were keeping that data. You give them that information and they can do what they want with it.
What's more interesting is if this kind of stuff actually helps them find real terrorists or if the hit/miss ratio is more akin to just identifying Muslims or Mid-easter people. There are always the stories of the FBI bullying the libraries and bookstores. It's disheartening, it makes you think twice and attacks some of the fundamental freedoms but is it actually effective? Perhaps there are a couple key meals that can fairly easily identify the eater as someone who has traveled to the Afghanistan/Pakistan border.. And perhaps that increases the likelihood of you being a terrorist like 10,000%. Then coupled with some key readings you may or may not have read they can further increase the likelihood that you're a terrorist. I hate this stuff but it really works then that is interesting and definitely has impact on how society will feel about it.
- bake your bread
- pickle your own olives
- make your own cheese
- slaughter your own animals
I wonder if the FBI+DHS ever assess the social impact of their decisions or is everything solely for "the greater good".
The land of opportunity is quickly becoming the land of "watch out".
In other news, the FBI hopes to catch a black man accused of robbing a liquor store in Queens by analyzing recent fried chicken and watermelon purchases.
Why is the FBI full of fucking idiots?
Sifting through billions of food purchases is not going to find a serious terror threat, not even when combined with any other data. For instance: John Ahmed Richardson has decided to become a terrorist after being recruited by militant persons. First, his flying lessons will not raise suspicions. Second, his explosives license for construction work will not either. Third, the chemical contaminants he will use to cause an eventual shutdown of a power grid are snuck into the country. Fourth, he hates fscking falafel.
So, all I can determine here is that the FBI is only interested in catching the stupid terrorists, or only able to do that, and does so to give itself a good name in the view of the public. Meanwhile actual and real determined terrorists work in secret and will manage to do what they desire without tipping off the FBI, the CIA, or any other law enforcement group. These law enforcement groups had valid actionable information about the 9/11 plot and ignored it. What good will it do them to find someone that likes Turkish food?
They all look like idiots!!
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Oh wait!
with Eating While Muslim
Maybe because the OUTSIDE threat in the world right now is Islamic fundamentalism which historically manifests itself in individuals of middle eastern descent?
So my addiction to good cured olives (not those nasty canned ones) is going to have the FBI on my doorstep?
We've become far too dependent on technology for trying to do actual investigative work. Data mining for ethnic foods? What happened to having a spy network in places that have known terrorists or security threats? Is the will even there to do this kind of first hand work or have we just given up and rely on computer algorithms to do the work for us?
Maybe someone within the FBI/NSA is pushing for technological solutions to do this kind of heavy lifting that used to be done by people. I don't know, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. We're not a meat and potatoes society anymore. People of every stripe are going out of their comfort zones and finding ethnic food really tasty (I am one of those people within the last 7-10 years). Do I get put on a watch list because I go through a month where I'm craving a good gyro and find the best place to get really good gyro is my local halal shop?
Shocking. But now all this food talk has made me hungry. Thanks FBI.
I hope my love of middle eastern food doesn't get me deported.
I would be okay with this profiling, if they would be so kind as to simply publish the name of every falafil consumer in the country on a website known only as "The Falafil List". I would like this to come up in every day life. "I'm sorry, you can no longer fly on airplanes anymore because you are on The Falafil List."
Maybe they should make these people wear a band around their arm with a golden pita.
I wonder if they're able to track the purchase of tahini, garbanzo beans, chick peas, and lemons into a could-be hummos? I hope their datamining skills are complete enough to track those terrorists who know how to throw together a quick and delicious party snack.
Are you f'ing serious? Isn't this exactly the kind of abuse that privacy advocates have been screaming about since the start? What does this kind of shopping preference tell you, seriously? For starters, it does not actually tell you if the person is Middle Eastern! There is simply a greater likelihood that the person is. But do we really care if the person is Middle Eastern? No! We're looking for terrorists! Once again, there's simply another, slightly higher (because, honestly, what proportion of Middle Easterners are terrorists? Very small) probability that the person is a terrorist. Now, I'm no mathematician, but I suspect that eventually, the noise drowns out the signal. The end result is intelligence agents wasting their time. I think it is pretty clear to everyone by now, that, if you want to find the terrorists, you need to follow the money. These people do not operate in a vaccuum. Traditional intelligence (remember when 'intelligence' had something to do with being smart?) is very good at this kind of thing. Note to United States: use your fucking brains.
Worse than credit cards are the "Food Club" discount cards. Around here we have lots of Food Lion grocery stores (they're practically in every town), and they use "MVP" cards. Customers only get sale prices if they have an MVP card. The cards are free, but you have to fill out some demographic information on the application.
Those things allow tracking of every single item a customer purchases, regardless of how they pay. Most customers are completely oblivious to the privacy ramifications.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
Middle Eastern food is often favored by peace-loving American vegetarians, like me. :) So they get a list of "possible terrorists" which includes peace-loving vegetarians and possible PETA or Greenpeace activists/sympathisers, hey -- this may be one of the most successful security moves yet!
Caveat Utilitor
Anyone who's watched The Siege knows terrorists like eating pizza.
Everything we heard about the 9-11 operation (granted, it was filtered through the government) is that these were cash operations. And that only makes sense. Given the state of technology these days, the following rules for covert operation seem to make sense:
1. Operate cash-only to make your activities harder to track
2. Make sure you are not flashy with the cash, drawing suspicion
3. Shave the beard, drop the turban, live as western as possible
4. Do not flash the cash, keep yourself as average joe as possible
5. Don't use cell phones or be sure to swap out sim cards frequently, seeing as the cops can track the cells
From what I've read, the skilled terrorists really know how to operate under the radar. The covert communication technology of choice, the fax machine. Handwrite messages in Arabic, fax back and forth. The goverment agencies are short on translators. Even if the messages were sent in the clear, it would take them a long time to figure anything out, assuming it was intercepted. If any kind of codes are used, it takes even more time to figure it out.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
That's what you get when you use violence as a means to your goals.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
The fact that the FBI is racially data mining to find terrorists or the fact that they're so incompetent at it. If you're going to do something like this, you have to pick something a little less universal than middle-eastern food. By going off this data, one has to think the FBI has captured at least 50m Americans who buy Falafel and probably more than 100m (a third of the population). At that point, random checking would be nearly as effective.
Think of it this way, what if Google used the word "the" as a screen for a reputable website. Well, I can't imagine many English language sites without "the" in them. So, Google eliminates sites without "the" as non-reputable (like the FBI is eliminating non-Falafel buyers as not terrorists). Google is still left with almost all their sites and so the presence of "the" hasn't been an effective screen. Neither is buying middle-eastern food.
Frankly, they probably would have had a smaller set simply by looking at place of birth. Not that they should be racist/anti-immigrant like that, but the stupidity of this screen is just so bothersome.
when I buy hummus, booze, pork, and pitas. Now THAT is a good meal!
Monstar L
Let's hope the know the difference between giving money for feta and hummus and giving money for fatah and hamas.
It's silliness like this that a good round of impeachment hearings would bring to light all at once. Sure, we get a trickle of privacy invasions, unconstitutional breaches, and so on. But then we're also /. readers, contributors to the EFF and/or ACLU (I donate to both), and generally tuned in, unlike most of the populace. A sudden flood of all the BS that's been going on in the name of counter-terrorism would be a nice slap in the face to wake people up.
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
1) "The brainchild of top FBI counterterrorism officials Phil Mudd and Willie T. Hulon, according to well-informed sources, the project didn't last long. It was torpedoed by the head of the FBI's criminal investigations division, Michael A. Mason, who argued that putting somebody on a terrorist list for what they ate was ridiculous -- and possibly illegal."
2) "All signs point to the credit card companies providing this data" is a rather generous spin on a theory that the author simply made up.
3) Do Iranians eat falafel at all? I've never seen it in Persian restaurants. Or do none of you people know the difference between them and Arabs?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
All signs point to the credit card companies providing this data, and not the individual stores
I'm sure grocery chain loyalty card information would be a rich vein of consumer purchase history to datamine. The only limit to that approach is that such membership is optional, whereas CC is almost mandatory in modern US consumer culture.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Every once in a while, buy a little bit of ham.
"Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine No Posessions?'" -- Elvis Costello
Amazon.com recommends "How to Blow Yourself Up Destroy His Enemy Western Christian Israel Loving Capitalist Apostates And Cash In With A Big Virgin Bonus."
Picture of Mohammed:
O O
|
\___/
This is my sig.
I hope they're PCI compliant.
This is an April Fools prank, right? I've been asleep for a few months and now the joke's on me. Ha ha! Very funny. It is a joke, right? Right? Please say it's a joke.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
You can always give them fake info when you sign up for a loyalty card. It's not like they ever check (at least places like Giant Eagle). And if the terrorists were actually smart I'd think they would use cash most of the time. As far as I know, most grocery stores still accept greenbacks.
I love the savings that I get using an in-store discount card! ...I should mention that I found my in-store discount card on the ground in the store parking lot. I have no idea whose card I'm using. I'll be sure to buy plenty of middle eastern food in their honor.
I keep thinking it would be fun to offer a randomizing service for discount cards. Get a web site somewhere and have people mail you their discount card with a self-addressed stamped envelope. Pull one out of a box and return that, and drop the one you got into a box. The very paranoid could do this every month or two. Make it very hard to track anyone's purchases.
Of course, then your name might get associated with someone who is buying strange stuff. But if that occurred in another state, it would probably be easy to show it had nothing to do with you. Of course the supermarket chain would be likely to never want to sell anything to you again.
I also wonder how long such a site would be in existence before the stores hired legal hit men to take it down in court.
I went down there on a cheese run and my room mate opted to come along because she needed a few items. She doesn't tend to shop down there as the prices tend to be higher and it's a bit farther from the house than the other grocery stores. So when we get up to the checkout counter my room mate inquires if they have a discount card. The clerk says, in that paranoid tone usually reserved for tinfoil-hat-wearing slashdot posters, "Oh, we don't do that. We don't track our customers." So if you want your derka derka, Whole Foods is where it's at (But only pay cash derka allah jihad!)
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
You know the last meal of the terrorists prior to 9/11 was Pizza Hut, right?
Mmm...cheesy, greasy and cheap middle eastern cuisine...
Maybe that's why...no...too easy.
Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
I think that it's even more insidious than what you describe. It's not even being Middle Eastern that attracts the attention of authorities in this matter, but rather what food you purchase.
This isn't even targeted ethnic discrimination, but rather a blatant foray into the realm of persecuting any deviation from the "american norm". To me, this says: "What, you don't purchase apple pies, soda, and hamburger? Instead you buy pita, chickpeas, and lamb? You're not like us... thus you are an enemy"
This is not just ethnic profiling run amock, but rather the beginnings of persecuting any differences from the average. The logical continuation of this policy would be to data mine television watching habits, and blacklist those who do not watch reality TV... or better yet, flag anyone whose TV is turned on for less than 2 hours per day.
Perhaps our government should try more conventional methods of finding wanted terrorists first? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nawaf-phonebook.jpg
Oh, I agree. But you're arguing how real terrorists are cautious enough to avoid such obvious giveaways, whereas the current state of security theater requires much more "willing suspension of disbelief."
In other words, stop being so logical. You have to clap or Tinkerbell will blow up Western Civilization As We Know It!
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." - The Constitution of the United States of America.
the FBI is violating the constitution.
We as citizens have a duty to protect the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. It's time to vote on the side of the Constitution. There are plenty of domestic enemies to the Constitution. Vote for America. Vote for freedom. Vote for justice. Vote your senators and congresspeople out of their cushy complacent jobs. Vote in people who have American values. Freedom of speech, press, religion, assembly.
They're using their grammar skills there.
Cite sources if you're going to spread FUD. Neither Greenpeace nor PETA are terrorist organizations. Neither have been involved in loss of life from organized violent activities. The worst you can say about either is they made some corporations lose money.
If that's the new level for "terrorists" I don't want to live here anymore.
My Babylon
his hot air content could cause cabin destabilization
"the credit card companies" is a misnomer. The company that issues the plastic with the embossed account number and mag stripe is the equivalent of the street-corner crack dealer. The manufacturer in this example is Concord/FirstData. All of your payment card transactions eventually pass through FirstData/Concord. As the AT&T/NSA story points out, it's pretty easy to copy the data and send it off to Law Enforcement.
"First Data Corporation is wholly owned by affiliates of Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. (KKR)." Who are those affiliates? http://www.firstdata.com/about/index.htm
Obviously, I have a strong bias against "easy credit". If I'm wrong, then someone please correct me.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
If I was a fanatical paranoid FREAK who was, say, running the NSA or something, I'd have a farm of supercomputers in Virginia or someplace running dozens of these operations already. The supermarket data is probably second only to the communications monitoring for analysis of The People. And of course total manipulation of the consumers is another practical application of this technology. Next time Law Enforcement Apologists cry about their lack of resources, remember how well they use what they have already. I actually don't own a tin hat. But I plan on being among the first to check in at the re-education center, once We The People build it.
The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
Sir, I saw Johnson eating a Filafil, he's a terrorist!
Insert Sig Here
Had a nice falafel pita at the GLATT KOSHER JEWISH RESTAURANT in queen NY last night!
These articles have a lot of speculation and poke a lot of fun but they don't say if the searches in coordination with other surveilance resulted in any arrests or the stopping of any plots.
Completely unsubstantiated BS on /.!?! What a surprise! If it's a slow news day, how about doing followups to a previous story like donttasemebro. Seems he has apologized. Or maybe, if you're going to be posting stories like donttasemebro that really have nothing to do with YRO anyway, you could cover other rights violations like the sleeping man who was tased in his own home and then tased again and arrested by police after he identified himself. Yeah, he was a black guy. There's even followup to that story. The police were cleared of any criminal wrongdoing. I guess real stories from actual newspapers are less important that made up shit from cheetos eating bloggers... News for nerds indeed. Tall tales for gullible suckers is more like it.
If I understand the process correctly, in most cases credit card companies do not have information on individual cardholders and only see the card numbers - the issuing banks are the ones that maintain the meta data. I think, based on that premise (which is correct for at least one CC company), this article may be wrong. Speculation piled upon speculation, though.
The heat from below can burn your eyes out
I look forward to news of the the FBI energetically scanning watermelon purchases to identify future convenience store robbers. Hey, maybe Jewish delis to screen for possible accounting crimes! Salami on rye, born to fry.
Hey, anyone keeping tabs on pasty purchases in the UP? Timothy McVeigh was the only domestic terrorist to actually blow up a Federal building complete with a day care center. He was a member of the Michigan Militia, a armed terror group dedicated to violently taking out the Federal government, come the day. I assume we've rounded them all up and are currently half-drowning them daily in Cuba? [crickets]
How dare you interrupt the daily Slashdot circle-jerk of hyperbolic privacy ranting with FACTS!
You sir, are obviously a terrorist.
The problem with these databases such as supermarket loyalty card purchase records, cell phone/gps movements, IP logs, public library checkout history, google searches, medical databases, and the like is that they can be used to get a good picture of who you are and what you are doing, without ever contacting you or seeking your permission. If the data exists, someone WILL use it, nevermind how many rules exist to keep it 'private.' No one who collects this kind of data is your friend, whatever they say to the contrary, and you should treat them accordingly.
What we need is a separation of Commerce and State, just like the separation of Church and State. And I know what you're thinking; the Church/State has worked out so well.
Well, maybe it's time to get moving again on separating our Civic leadership from other entities, strengthening the already existing separation.
Now watch Mit Romney win the election and anoint himself Pope of the Mormons.
Why not simplify the search?
RETURN PERSON ID where has expired visa AND received large cash transfers from an Islamic country.
Isn't that what they're really looking for?
And that information is NOT going to be found from a grocery store.
Your method would be defeated simply by purchasing round trip tickets.
Buying tin foil hats? Cash.
We'll make great pets
So I take it that the FBI thinks that if you like Middle Eastern food, you are a potential terrorist? Gosh, I feel safer already.
Falafel isn't Iranian food. It's Arabic food. I've never seen Falafel on the menu at an Iranian restaurant. Do Iranians even eat that?
why do i hate america?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
When only outlaws use cash, cash will be outlawed.
I'm pretty sure your credit card company only knows the store you shopped at, not the individual items you purchased. So they must be looking for shoppers at ethnic-food stores. Unless they are mining loyalty cards from the bigger chains... which I'm sure all the terrorists are using loyalty cards *rolls eyes*. Ahhhh, America. Always amusing how hypocritical your government is. The FBI is watching you buy your "Freedom Fries". Ha.
The program, however, was short lived and was quickly "torpedoed by the head of the FBI's criminal investigations division, Michael A. Mason, who argued that putting somebody on a terrorist list for what they ate was ridiculous -- and possibly illegal."
...and certainly hilarious!
I agree. What business does the FBI have trying to protect us? We were just kidding after 9/11 that our intelligence community failed us. There's no need to track down terrorist at all.
Nick
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
Who gives a F-ing rats ass about this!?!?!?! I am so freaking tired of the BS privacy advocates who keep crying their little panties off. Who is this hurting and how is anyone any-less off because of shit like this? Seriously, who the fuck is this hurting? Get off your damn privacy bullshit soapbox and come up with a better way to help identify potential evil doers.
If you are looking for a issue to fight against, how about targeting the loose-lipped employees of the department of motor vehicles, or any other state worker, who likes running background checks on potential boyfriends (for themselves or their friends).
I used to bowl on a league with a "County Employee" who used her access at work to run DMV backgrounds on "The cute guys" and would then gossip about what she found. It is THIS bullshit we need to be worried about, not the FBI using data mining techniques to help profile potential criminals.
"Mason, who is leaving the FBI to become security chief for Verizon, could not be reached for comment."
I am pretty sure that is the really scary part of the article.
Remember McCarthyism? Yeah, this is kinda like that (and by "kinda" I mean "exactly").
I saw another headline that said that. It illustrates the stupidity even better because falafel isn't a Persian food.
I wonder if the Feds are also interested in identifying stores which might be providing terrorist support services? Safe houses, money laundering, companionship in a lonely foreign land.
I can imagine the Feds saying "Okay, we data-mined one or two suspicious guys who shop at Sayyid's Market -- better keep Sayyid under surveillance. Wait a minute -- better flag all of Sayyid's customers as potential terrorists."
-kgj
-kgj
"The brainchild of top FBI counterterrorism officials Phil Mudd and Willie T. Hulon, according to well-informed sources, the project didn't last long. It was torpedoed by the head of the FBI's criminal investigations division, Michael A. Mason, who argued that putting somebody on a terrorist list for what they ate was ridiculous -- and possibly illegal.
A check of federal court records in California did not reveal any prosecutions developed from falafel trails."
I'll be glad when the 08 elections are over and all you chicken littles will be scratching the dirt looking stupid.
Or perhaps the FBI pulled a rather legal two-step: commission a company like InfoUSA to do a more broad, demographically based data-mining, and then when probable cause is established (and it WILL be established, even if only as a "clerical error") you get a FISA warrant for more direct searching and data mining through the credit card companies.
Don't you all know that privacy is dead anyway? If not, you need to listen to Steve Rambam's talk on the subject.
Seriously, the blog post (not to be confused with news article) just made some shots in the dark at how they think it wouldve happened; i think it wouldve be easier to watch shipping records and you could sidestep privacy issues that way as well using open-source intel. Even the original blog post that this one quotes didn't cite sources for the falafel, it just used it as an example.
Finally, it also stated they attempted to use this data in combination with other data to see if they could come up with anything useful- this sounds totally okay by me, although I'd wonder how effective it would actually be (does a cell of 20 actually cause a significant jump in the purchases of product x?)
Either way the seething pile of bullshit that the blog-o-sphere is shows its absurdity and really brings into question peoples and organization that routinely quote as news, blogs that are totally devoid of any substantial argument based from something other than ones opinions
Folks, don't be surprised. We were told about this back in 2002, when Admiral Poindexter announced the Total Information Awareness program. It was to be a giant database of all electronic records of all Americans -- your credit card records, grocery discount card purchases, phone calls, tax records, internet traffic, bank records, medical records, court records, everything. The logo of the program was the All-Seeing Eye on top of a pyramid, beaming its gaze over the United States. The motto was "Scientia est Poder", "Knowledge is Power". ( Are we to conclude then that total information awareness then means complete and absolute power? )
.
Because of public outcry, the project was supposedly canceled. But in reality, the various functions were just farmed out to different entities -- see the wikipedia article.
Now we have a guy testifying before congress that the NSA monitors all internet traffic. The former CEO of Qwest communications testified that the government asked them to monitor all phone calls months before 9/11. Wayne Madsen, former CIA agent, claims that recent theft of personal information from laptops is a black op to populate the TIA database ( he maintains a list of database thefts on the pay section of his site. )
This is just like when Nazi Germany started keeping records of the entire population so they knew where the Jews were when it came time to round them all up. They were assisted by the lasted record-keeping machinery and techniques from IBM. Now the US government is keeping track of everyone using the latest database technology.
Check out the 10 steps to Facism that Naomi Wolf outlined in her book, "The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot". This is step #4, "Set up an internal surveillance system". It's disturbing to see how many other steps we can check off in present-day America.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
You don't understand how datamining works
You obviously understand it even less. Data mining doesn't use relational queries, but it is looking for statistical anomalies and correlations. There is very little data to validate data mining for terrorists, which is why it is pointless.
Unfortunately, there is a good chance that the US government is doing what you suggest: hardcoding a bunch of bogus queries and hoping for the best.
Where did that come from....? Love the headline: Looking for "insert your next enemy" terror cells.
So now all who read this headline will assume there are Iranian Terror Cells in America. Actually the only known terrorists to operate on U.S. soil have been domestic anti-abortionist fundies, RW nutjobs and yup...Saudi's
I happen to like middle eastern foods. Does this mean if I shop at a store that carries those foods, I'll land on the do-not-fly list?
DHS/FBI/CIA are all morons. Well, not all, but the folks with these bird-brained ideas ought to be fired.
My nefarious un-American dining activities know no bounds. I love those saffron-spiced chicken kabobs. And hamburgers just don't stand up to a wrap in lavash wrap with koubideh ground beef and a dash of yogurt sauce, and cilantro, and tomatoes and veggies chargrilled to perfection. I even like the basmati rice and the fresh pomegranates and dates that are better than you get in any typical American store. I've scarfed down so many lunches like that and loved every bit.
Take that, Bush. Better gitmo me before I buy a hookah, or a Sufi poetry book.
And today, down the road from there, I'm going Chinese and buying dim sum. You're so screwed.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
Next question, tinfoil hat people?
Do I hear a few tens of thousands of 9-11 victims and their relatives agreeing with me? Seeing as how I myself am two degrees of separation from 4 or 5 Unabomber, 9-11, and Murragh bombing victims.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
First they came for the falafel, and I did not speak out - because, I mean, WTF?, you can buy falafel everywhere!
....
Then they came for the hummus and I did not speak out - because hummus makes me fart like a bull.
Next thay came for the baba ganoush, and, well, who eats that mushy goo?
Next they came for the
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
Much more fun to just bash the government than actually find out the facts, eh?
Write down this guy's name! Write down this guy's name!
First they came after people who ate falafel, but I said nothing because I didn't eat falafel.
Then, they came after people who listened to public radio, but I said nothing because I didn't listen to public radio.
Then, they came after people who wore sandals, but I said nothing because I didn't wear sandals.
Then, they came after me, and there was nobody to speak up for me.
Maybe they'll just assume that if you have a CCW permit you might own a gun or two?
Do they really have you list the guns on the permit? What if you get a new gun, or decide to carry a different (or extra) gun one day? My state doesn't have "Vermont style" carry, but they don't make you list the gun on the permit.
1. You are dodging the undeniable LAW ENFORCEMENT implications of harvesting personal account numbers, merchant ID's dates and times! I don't have a bone to pick with you about identity theft as the system works well at FirstData's level.
2. Since I'm probably one of the very few that actually reads privacy statements, it seems you aren't aware of the arrangement between your customers and FirstData. The scope and scale of which is unknown.
" Millions of consumers and businesses rely on FDMS, and our client partners, for safe and reliable payment services. Our relationships are established based on mutual trust. Each day, we strive to reinforce our commitment to our business customers and consumers.
In order to provide these services, FDMS must collect, maintain and use financial and other sensitive personal information."
https://www.firstdatapartners.com/citi/privacy.php
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
What makes this a crisis? Who cares that the FBI is looking at purchase records of middle-eastern foods? So, now they have a list of people who eat stereotypical middle-eastern food. All that tells them, without other information, is that we have middle-eastern food loving people in the USA! Credit card companies, any major corporation, etc in the USA collects the same kind of information for targeted advertisement, those complaining about this aren't screaming at those companies....why the FBI?
Even if they were using this information for some surveillance op, they couldn't arrest ANYONE for buying middle-eastern food....nor could they harass someone without the clear opportunity for lawsuit. This is just people who hate the current administration for whatever reason they have.
Well ... The article is trying to sensationalize this one.
The fact of the matter is they "may" also be looking for
ppl that are buying lots of smoke detectors and or certain
chemicals that are common under your kitchen sink.
mixed and prepared the right way, they are not something you eat.
The have heard higher chatter levels, but are having a hard time
pinning down this latest threat rise and are grasping at straws
in my opinion.
I personally hope they find them, and if credit card transactions
at grocery stores is the big sin used to do it, so be it.
Ex-MislTech
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
I guess guys like Zimmern and Bourdain and just screwed then?
-Valiss
We are on a credit card fraud alert short list that sometimes seems like harassment. More than 3-4 internet purchases/day on any given day and it's time to give them a call to remove the holds.
Anyway, my wife buys nicotine gum from a New Zealand pharmacy because it's a 1/3 cheaper, including 4-day express mail from the other side of the earth, than it is at the local Target. Came up as an alert and I had to give Citibank a call. Two days later it arrived wrapped in lime-green "Mr. Yuk" Homeland Security tape. Only time that's happened before or since. (Gosh, and the Citibank phone drone seemed like such a _pleasant_ guy.)
The Berkely Barb years ago had an article about Kroger gathering data through use of its KrogerPlus card. In it, shortly after '911', Kroger offered its purchaser data to the newly formed 'Homeland Security Department'. It is easy to search through this data. A customer fills in all his personal information on an 'application'. In return, he/she recieves a plastic card with a scannable bar code on it. At the checkout lane, the clerk demands these cards from each shopper. If a shopper does not have one, she/he shoves an 'application' in his/her face. Also, now if a shopper does not have one or does not want one, she uses a 'KrogerPlus' card of her own to put his/her data on that data line. The cash register processes each scanned item by UPC code on the item and records a data line on some master record containing fields for the customer ID, item UPC, store number (which contains its location), price, sale price that day, and date and time. This record may contain other fields as well, like a field for a recorded picture of the customer. There are cameras over all the registers that take pictures of all customers at all times. In this way the supposedly anonymous 'gift' of the clerk of using 'her' card is probably a lie. In reality, the card used is probably a master tied to that register, and as soon as it is used, the security camera over that register is commanded to use the face on the picture that it has already taken of that customer as a comparator to a master database of driver's license photos in that state and other states until a match is found. When a match is found, that face and its data from the other database is used to fill in the rest of the record and to assign a customerID to the customer along with his face. Faces of other customers are probably gathered in the same manner, especially cardholders. This company's employees deny that Kroger is datamining its customers, but this is certainly lie given information already out there from the Berkeley Barb. The Berkeley Barb was never sued, as truth is a bar to libel suits. Kroger is perfectly willing to sell products at a third less cost on common items costing up to and over ten dollars is one presents a 'KrogerPlus' card. Grocery store operators have historically in the past claimed that their profit margin is less than two percent to three percent. No one is going to believe that Kroger is not selling that data to whoever has the money to buy it, and it must have value for Kroger to sacrifice so much to obtain it. That in addition to Kroger handing the data to the American secret police. There are almost a million people on the so called 'watch list'. How many are on it simply because they went 'Krogering'? How many lost their car insurance because they bought beer regularly? How many lost jobs because they bought prescriptions for anti HIV drugs at Kroger's pharmacy? How many are on the list simply because they bought olive oil regularly, or hummus and crackers? The questions just keep coming and there is not enough ink or patience of Slashdot to print it all.
Communists are "OK" because although they may be godless, at least ther are not Muslim.
Remember, this war is about two things: GWB's version of Christian God, and oil. In that order.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Christian Fundamentalists have been here since the 1600s and haven't turned this country into Afghanistan yet.
Afghanistan was not made what it is by Afghans, it was a result of British, Russian and lastly American interference in the country's business. Afghans never got a chance to build their country the way they want. You remember who created Al-Qaeda in the first place, right?
On the other hand you look at sizable immigrant Muslim communities in countries like Canada and the UK, and people are pushing for Sharia courts.
Yes, and Christian immigrants never ever tried to force their religion on other nations during the history? And by the way, right now Christian fundamentalist have taken over your government, see what's happening to dollar? to your education? to your mainstream media?
For that matter, Christianity doesn't even have an equivalent of Jihad in either codification or practice.
I don't know how the world "Jihad" came to be what it means to western world today, but I know some Arabic (being an Iranian, we had to learn the language of Islam in school) 'Jihad' mean 'Effort'. Now 'Jihad fi sabil allah' means 'effort in the way of God'. It is not explicitly about waging war though; building a school, a road, a mosque, etc. is mentioned as an effort in the way of God, helping the needy, teaching someone something useful, not eating too much and doing exercise to keep your body healthy and even brushing your teeth are all known examples of Jihad and of course war is included among them. No mention of killing innocent people though.
Apparently, there are many other concepts in Islam that are only known to Americans, such as the whole 72 virgins case which during 20+ years of living in Iran I never ever heard of or read in any religious text. I guess it's more of a western creation.
And lastly, you do have terrorists, ones that kill millions and not couple of thousands, you just call them politicians to feel good about it.
Depending on what they were looking for, I have an idea how they looked. Years ago, I interviewed for a job offer from a branch of A.C.Nielsen. They paid grocery stores for their register tapes and then did analysis on them for the vendors (like Frito-lay). Credit cards seem likely, but this gives you a more granular look - especially if you then tie it to credit cards.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
I wanted to buy some socialist magazines at Borders. 'Cept, I was going to use a credit card. Before checking out, my wife made me put them back - said that I should only pay cash for them.
Glad I listened to her. Scary though - she's more paranoid than I am.
This is just the tip of the iceberg lettuce!
I think you're being paranoid. The feds will just sell this information to advertisers, who can then give us mid-eastern food lovers targeted ads. It's a win-win-win situation:
1. The government makes money.
2. The advertisers save money by not trying to sell me stuff I don't use.
3. I get less junk mail, and maybe some good coupons for hummus.
You honestly mean that there are people out there who still use credit cards / other electronic payment methods in any situations where there is *any* alternative payment method available???
And if they refuse to provide their "special" pricing walk away. I used to have to do it frequently, now it's rare. One less profiling device.
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Hope you enjoy your stay here. Use your credit card and don't forget to consume, consume consume! Glad I got out of that place!
fuck karma, I like saying the truth better