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No XP Reprieve; Windows 7 Release Set
CWmike writes "Microsoft has laid to rest rumors that it might reconsider pulling Windows XP from retail shelves and from most PC makers next Monday. Microsoft's Bill Veghte wrote to customers reiterating that June 30 would be the deadline when Microsoft halts shipments of boxed copies to retailers and stops licensing the operating system directly to OEMs. However, Veghte did leave the door open to all computer makers, even the largest, who want to continue selling new PCs with XP pre-installed. 'Additionally, Systems Builders (sometimes referred to as "local OEMs"), may continue to purchase Windows XP through Authorized Distributors [such as Ingram Micro] through January 31, 2009,' he wrote in the letter. 'All OEMs, including major OEMs, have this option,' said Veghte. At the same time, Microsoft confirmed Windows 7 would ship in January 2010. Who, if they have not already, would install Vista now?" Microsoft has said they will post the letter, but it's not up yet.
Yeah right.
when it comes time to upgrade, i will be looking towards the lixux distros again. i would have done it by now but my copy of xp is legit and vista isn't worth the bandwidth.
"Who, if they have not already, would install Vista now?"
I heard Mac OS X 10.6 is supposed to come out next year. Who, if they have not already, would install 10.5 now?
the release date they announce in June of 2010 will probably be a more accurate one.
More music, fewer hits
If I build a home media server before 2010, which might happen if I have enough money left over after landscaping and a deck, it'll definately have vista. Maybe that's a function of having an xbox. But I can't help but wonder at the promise of an entire DVD and Music collection available at the touch of a remote. That in turn will probably sell another xbox for the TV in the bedroom. I've had a long time to kick the tires on Vista. And while some on slashdot certainly are better MS customers than myself. But from windows 3 through 95 to Me branch through NT 3.51 through well Vista. It's not even close. Vista is by far the best put forth by MS. Perhaps it seems like less of an improvement because of the good enough factor of XP and the monsterous leaps forward linux desktops have made.
I actually like Vista.
I make websites and stuff. Buy one.
Typical, clueless geek-centric comment. We geeks install a new OS every other month, but almost everybody else just uses whatever came with their system. When they begin to feel out of date, they don't upgrade the OS, they get a whole new system.
So nobody's outside geekworld is saying "Should I install Vista". If they think about OS issues at all, they're thinking, "Hey, I hear Vista really sucks. Maybe I should get an XP system while I still can."
...it'll be ready just after the Summer Olympics--in London!
Does anyone have a Microsoft OS ship date table handy? I think the ETA vs Actual Ship Date follows an exponential curve.
It seems Vista joined Windows ME on it. Hopefully Windows 7 is like another XP.
Was the same with 2k, dead before its time. Replaced with something more bloated and buggy.
I never thought I would feel sorry for xp, but here we are
-
I think my next box will be linux. It's time to try again.
I bounced off of open office from 1.02 to 2.4- I preferred 2.4 to Word after about a month of usage. 3.0 and onwards looks to only be better.
Same thing with linux. It looks like it is getting close-- I'm thinking a fit-pc or something like that to start.
Keep my windows beast for Everquest I, but maybe all my art, browsing, etc, over to linux by december.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I don't remember the exact version but I think it was Netware 3 that was solid as a rock. Then the next version was total crap upon release use users didn't upgrade. Even the following update were flaky so users stayed on the old version. The Novell was in getting into deep sneakers without upgrade revenue coming in. They finally started getting the problems worked out, but users were content with the old version and still had little interest in new version. After another major upgrade users started updating slowly.
MS seems to be in the same situation the got XP patched up to be a solid Windows OS and what problems there are are well known so not a big deal. Vista price and stability isn't a attractive enough move the masses. MS has far deeper pockets than Novell so it hurts, but isn't lethal.
Personally I wish MS would grow a pair like Apple has over the years and build a new OS from scratch and not worry about backward compatibility. Apple has done it what three times since the beginning. They give developers and users a couple years of warning and move forward. MS talks about it but never does it, they definitely have the deep pockets to do it.
This is FANTASTIC news for operating systems competing with Windows.
The choices to a complete new users have just improved from an open source point of view:
a) Install Windows Vista. High system specs, buggy to use, even harder to fix, has stupid problems. Also very pricey.
b) Install Linux Distro. Low system specs, buggy to use, some things can be very difficult to fix, has techie aura surrounding it. Did someone say its free?
Gone is good old option c - just install XP which is pretty stable, just about everything works with it and anyone can fix it.
Rejoice opensource!
Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
"The new Ford Edsel sets the standard for style, luxury, and performance. We at Ford Motor Co. have absolute confidence that this is the car of the future that discerning customers have been waiting for. For more budget-minded customers, and for a limited time, the Fairline is still a fine choice."
Microsoft just threw to resellers and OEM's. It forces what little cash a reseller has *now* to all flow to Microsoft for product used for the next six months including Christmas.
Last purchase of XP: June 30.
Can distribute XP: January 2009
1. Basically, any cash-strapped reseller stands a much greater chance of being run out of business.
2. It will certainly shift the cost of financing the license pre-buy onto consumers in the form of higher product prices.
Wow.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
When does SP1 appear? That's the date that matters. You figure 2011 and it starts to seem like a decade with XP.
Ubuntu downloads strike a new high water mark.
I am wrestling with a Toshiba A215 that came with Vista Home Premium. It reliably pukes five minutes after waking up from suspend, and requires a hard boot to recover. I tried to run Ubuntu, but it won't recognize the wireless, even after the Mad wifi drivers were installed.
I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
I'll probably get a new computer with Vista. I'm just not a Mac person, Linux doesn't support some software and peripherals I need, and my old desktop is, well, 5 years old at the end of July. I'm cheap but not that cheap.
That doesn't mean I won't install Linux on my old computer and use my old copy of XP on the new one, of course. I'm a real sucker for shiny, transparent, blurry things though. The problem with Mac stuff is that it looks too much like plastic, or fondant, whereas Vista looks more like fogged glass or acrylic. Mac's ferocious pointer-attacking icons worry me. Neither is sparkly enough, frankly.
I really like that program that comes with Macs though. What's it called? "Pages." I want that. I think I'll go for a bike ride.
I wish XP would be around for longer. Vista sucks donkey balls. I bought a Dell XPS M1530. It has some awesome specs, 4G RAM, beautiful display, wonderful keyboard... But Vista sucks. Even with the service pack it has bizarre problems. It freezes for 30 to 40 seconds every so often (the mouse won't even move), every day it goes into this weird mode where the hard drive thrashes for hours, it doesn't go to sleep properly when I close the lid, it blue-screened when I plugged in my AT&T USB Sigmatel 881 card, it keeps on bouncing between access points, etc., etc... XP works great on the machine however. I want to buy another laptop like it soon, but not with Vista. I hope this is still an option..
By reducing the ability of its own customers to choose their operating environment, Microsoft drives them toward Linux and Apple.
I was just musing ... Microsoft have now effectively dictated that you can't run XP on a new computer (ignore the matter of "downgrade" rights for the time being). I guess they won't allow a customer to get a new license for XP for an existing computer (say they wanted to switch away from Linux and don't have any current Windows license). So they're effectively saying that if you want to run Windows, you have to run Vista. It's really a matter of denying choice, given how different XP and Vista are. How long can it be until Microsoft says that you're not allowed to _continue_ to run XP?
Looking at the parallels with Linux ... who would want to run a Linux distro from 2001? (That's how old XP is). Answer is nobody, unless your hardware is so old that you can't run anything newer. No linux folks will support a distro dated 2001. Isn't this a forced upgrade? I don't think so, because with linux, upgrading is a continuous process ... when you upgrade from 2001 versions of software through to 2008 what you are getting is basically the same thing, just better. Your kernel gets faster (and bigger), your devices work better, your window manager gains more features (and sometimes changes entirely, but you can choose your window manager). So, barring old/slow/small hardware, there's no reason not to upgrade linux.
Contrast with Windows - upgrade is a discontinuous process. You have to pay them for the later version, of course. And a lot of things change (for Microsoft's reasons), and you don't really get to choose much.
If i wanted a useless BLOATED OS then vista and windows 7 could be something i would want. But sadly after seeing how vista runs i have lost all faith in MS's capacity to make a decent streamlined product instead of and overbloated POS(just so it can look more like an apple OS) that only makes a brand new computer slower then a 5 year old computer that was never even high end to start with...
Property is theft.
What the hell is Windows 7, and other than a new desktop theme, why would I ever want it? Same viruses, same stupid Windowsisms, same IE-is-secretly-your-WM-and-vice-versa crap. What compelling features will it have ?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Are there any operating systems out there that have a turtle for a mascot? Linux has the penguin but I like turtles better.
... the sane alternative.
I recognize Vista was a turd, but can you folks even bother educating yourself about what 7 is supposed to be before bashing it? Right now this is being advertised as performance and security increases, not "a new desktop theme," as people keep saying it. The leaked internal build shows a 40-50% memory usage decrease since Vista. In my book, that's a good thing, even as a Linux user.
I work for a large 150,000 person company that manufactures one of the United States' most well known and visible exports. You probably use our products once or twice a year if not several times each week if you are a frequent traveler.
Sadly, we have just announced internally that we are going ahead with our Vista rollout on our existing computers, not on new ones.
I suspect that "you can't go wrong going with Microsoft" is as true now as it ever was. People complaining about Vista are losers, our IT managers know everything and can handle it all.
And I suspect someone was able to spiffy up their resume by claiming this rollout on it.
Windows 2000 EOL is July 13, 2010, so I'll have roughly six months to decide among four choices:
1. Take a shrinkwrapped XP copy off the shelf and upgrade to that
2. Switch to ReactOS
3. "Upgrade" to Windows 7
4. Stick with Windows 2000, hoping that a third party keeps up with security patches
Even though I've bought XP I have yet to switch to that over Windows 2000, so guess how high MY bar for MS is to convince me to switch to Windows 7. Potential customers don't have to buy (or simply use) things just because someone offers them, you know...
I hope MS call the new OS 2010: The year we make an OS that doesn't suck
Hi there! My name is Microsoft shill #59329. I'm here to tell you about the exciting new features in Windows 7, and to assure you all that it will be delivered on-time!
Now, we at Microsoft, are aware that whilst people love Windows Vista, some are having trouble with a few of the more advanced features, and the number of resources required to support them. So allow me to show you, dear Slashdot reader, the two major features in Windows 7 that will make it your best upgrade yet!
We'll certainly be on-time, because we're not actually going to change anything. Didn't see that one coming did you Free software zealots? I prostrate myself at the feet of chairman Ballmer, worshipping his tactical genius. You should too (if you know what's good for you)!
Overall, we're confident you'll find Windows 7 to be the Best OS EVAR, and even if you don't: we've kidnapped Linus and Stallman and have them secure in our secret, underground base.
Microsoft does some things well such as simple internal networks, and for many large-site applications they have the simplest and (probably) most cost-effective solution at the moment, especially with Windows XP. However it all depends on what a company is doing on its computers.
The network at my workplace (several thousand employees) is all Windows 2000 / XP. But it's a very rudimentary system. Communication between computers is only possible by email or through a big fat shared file system. The admins are too scared (or lazy) to open up anything else.
All people do on these computers is access web-based resources. For this, Windows is a STUPID choice because every few months the computers have to be re-done to cope with all the garbage the end-users are putting on their terminals.
They are going to Visterize everything too, with multi-million dollar hardware upgrades that are needed. But after all that, people are going to do what they always did - run Firefox-portable from their thumb-drive and ignore everything else.
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
When Windows Vista was released, RAM cost $100 per GB. Now, it's not a big deal since 1 GB is about ~$20 GB.
In other news, Windows 8 will be released by the second quarter of 2012 just in time for Genetic Control.
Of course I didn't RTFA... why would I do that? You really are new here aren't you? Don't let my UID fool you.
You can still get XP, you just have to "aquire" it differently. *cough* TPB *cough*
I fully believe that Microsoft management asked the engineers when 7 would be ready, they replied "January 2009" and the managers said "January 2010 it is." I find it highly unlikely that it will be significantly delayed again. No matter how much you want to believe it, Microsoft is simply not retarded.
Windows 7 won't suck. It won't be great either. It'll be pretty decent, probably above average. People will use it and say, "Hey this is better than Vista, and it's sorta fast too." Linux users will keep saying that Linux is better and hipsters will keep saying that OS X is better. Status quo antebellum; this is unlikely to change in the near future. Microsoft's market share will probably dip once Linux hits its stride, but there is definitely a wall for OS X adoption (closed-down software that only runs on high-priced hardware from one manufacturer? It must appeal to the masses).
I've tried to be less extreme in predictions than I usually am. It's just that you get a few people saying that Windows will dominate again, a few people saying that Linux will rise up and defeat them, and then another few saying that OS X will take over. All are equally laughable scenarios.
Does this mean that Microsoft will be cutting off users who try to activate their copies of Windows XP by this date? Will activation be supported until June 30, until the main life cycle ends, or until the end of the extended cycle?
And which devices do you mean, Mr. Astroturfer?
As far as games go, Linux has better games support than Vista. If you want games, you buy a console: Wii or PS3. The PS2 is still outselling Xbox. Console for games, linux or mac for work.
That is just wrong. Backward compatibility has absolutely nothing to do with MS not rewriting from scratch. MS owns VirtualPC. MS owns every version of Windows back to 1.0, and all the MS-Dos versions before that. There is absolutely no reason that MS could not have a ground up build, AND 100% backward compatibility. The problem for MS is that they wrote a kludgy crappy OS, and successfully sold it to IBM for their 'toy' computers. This gave their crappy OS legitimacy and a dominant position in the business world. From there it was dirty tricks, cheap upgrades, and a blind eye to piracy to gain market share.
Well, it's a different world today. Their competition is either cooler or cheaper. They are being watched closer for dirty tricks, and they have long run out of large numbers of new people who will pay for their OS if they don't use some kind of copy protection.
I don't think MS has the corporate culture to write a new OS from the ground up that can compete with XP, OSX, or Linux. So, they keep with what they know, and hope the ship stays above water for one more day.
Your hardware has 4 GB RAM. MS can only use 3 GB RAM. You paid an extra 33% for nothing.
Of those 3GB, Vista needs more than 2 GB just to give you the same screen that Fluxbox can give in a few MB, leaving you less than 1 GB to work with out of that 4 GB you paid for.
Microsoft may want to reconsider here.
There are monstrous security holes in Vista, and the rest of the world is fine with patching the few holes in XP.
They can dump it from the shelves, but that probably won't work. They can still pay them for the liscenses, however, the license is not tied to the disc in any way. Yanking the box isn't taking the liscense it all.
One of my guys went to a workshop last month run by VMware, looking at some of their new technologies. We (1000 desktops) were at the small end of the attendees: the rest of the people there were mostly from large corporates. The guy in charge wanted a quick straw poll on some issues, one of which was ``are you doing or planning to do Vista?''. Seventy attendees. One hand. A common reason for home upgrades is ``that's what I'm using at work / school / etc.''. As Vista has no traction in those markets, it's losing at home as well. ian
XP's interface is so responsive and simple, and I can get tons of stuff done in a short time. I have yet to use *nix that has a file manager that's at least as good as XP's, and the rest of the interface typically sucks in comparison. What can I say, I love XP.
Will Windows 7 get a new UI programmed by the makers of Trespasser just like Vista did; or will we instead get something that runs efficiently and can actually look shiny if we want?
One of the wise things Microsoft did with ME is that they disavowed any further development of it. When XP came out it was "From the legacy of NT and W2K". Associating in people's minds W7 with WVista is perhaps the worst thing MS can do from a marketing W7 standpoint. Here they could say they built it on Server 2008, which is based on Vista tech but not too bad. Instead they're going to take a negative brand while the sting of branding is still warm and singe it into a product that isn't made yet. Are drool cups standard equipment in Redmond?
For a marketing Linux standpoint, though, it's brilliant. A GIFT. Let us make the most of it.
Let me be the first to say: W7 = Vista II: Groundhog Day!
Help stamp out iliturcy.
The default Mac theme is subtle grays- still plenty of contrast but not quite so forward, and certainly not saturated. The Mac aims to keep the UI to a minimum- theory being that the content should have the focus and the OS/UI should be a tool. Think Photoshop (I can't speak for gimp though)
And to expand on that thought- imagine if Photoshop had a BRIGHT MULTICOLORED ui so that the tools could all SCREAM their function. That would be a bad way to work on photographs, no?
> If Linus is not released within 48 hours on the other hand,
> I will be forced to free Reiser in a crazed attempt
Considering that Linus's wife is a six-time Finnish Karate champion, it would probably be a better movie if she and Reiser have to cooperate in this desperate (but ultimately successful, of course) attempt to free Linus. Reiser would have to wave his "I AM McGyver" card around a lot in order to equalize the power of the main characters, and get killed off dramatically (but redeemingly) at the end after he tries to pull a partial double cross in order to force Linus to add support to the 2.7 kernel tree for the new Reiser5 filesystem (note to scriptwriters: find a nice simple analogy for this for the non-geek viewers).
Good luck with that Toshiba. I just spent several hours with Toshiba tech support today about my A215-S7422. My (and your) and all other A215, along with dozens and dozens and dozens of other Toshiba models have a design defect that blanks (turns a bluish tint, maybe backlight stays partially lit) the screen and completely freezes up the computer. The blue LEDs on the front of the laptop stay lit, the ethernet switch its connnected to shows the connection is still on, but both under Windows Vista Home Premium and with Debian with the stock Sarge kernel to the latest 2.6.25 backported kernel, the laptop is completely frozen. Ctrl-Alt-Backspace doesn't work, sysrq magic keys don't work, nothing. The only way to "recover" is to hold down the power on switch until the laptop's leds disappear/the laptop "powers off", and then release, and hold down the power on switch again for a hard boot.
It's an intermittent issue, so if you turn your laptop on and off after each use it may take months or more for the problem to hit you, or it may happen the next time you use the laptop. All work running on the computer is lost, emails are lost/corrupted even with a ReiserFS partition, everything in Konqueror is lost, the only "memory" of the incident is Iceape seems to recall a "crash" and restores tabs that were open when the laptop froze up. In order to save open tabs in Konqueror I've had to set up a cron job that rsyncs Konqueror-crash-* files from /tmp/kde-user/ into a ".crash/" directory in the user's home directory every minute, and after the crash, prior to starting Konqueror or logging in as the user I have to log in to a console and move the .crash files to a .crash-date-version directory I then create, so that when I start using konqueror again it doesn't overwrite the crash files from the crashed session, and then to open the tabs I had open when the laptop crashed, I have to manually move the .crash-date-version files back to /tmp/kde-user/ directory manually a few at a time so that I can open the tabs with tools -> crashes in the konqueror menu and then delete those links through the same menu. I can't move them all back at once or I'll overwhelm the tools -> crashes menu (the choice to delete all recovered urls will be off the screen).
Other cron jobs I've set up include one that records the time, cpu frequency and cpu temperature every minute, as I originally thought it may be an issue of the laptop overheating, but that turned out to be wrong. It happens even with the laptop below 50C. I also tried freezing the cpu frequency at the lowest setting (800 MGHz) in the bios, but that didn't help with the screen blanking-freezing up issue.
Toshiba has released several bios updates for this and dozens of other model laptops to fix this problem. I've applied them all including the most recent one that came out about three months ago. Still have the same problem. After dozens and dozens of googling sessions on this issue, I've seen one explanation that the problem may be the cpu changing frequencies, and the solution is to peg the cpu at the highest frequency (which kills the battery much faster btw), but that doesn't work either. After an extensive phone conversation with a tech manager at the authorized service center where Toshiba wants me to bring my laptop for this issue, the manager basically admitted there isn't a fix to the problem. The notes he had while looking at Toshiba's site for the service centers, were to apply the latest bios updates (I already did) and to change the Vista utility that regulates cpu frequency to a different profile. That's nonsense as this is happening in Linux as well, with all types of experimentation of all different settings of powernowd which regulates the cpu frequency scaling in Linux. Keeping it at 800 MGHz is no help, keeping it pegged at full speed doesn't work, changing the frequency based on load levels faster/slower doesn't work, changing load level trig
You've got it wrong. Windows is like the Star Trek movies: every *other one* sucks. 3.0 was awful, 3.1 fixed it up. 95, once you got past the ooh wow it's like a Mac now, sucked; 98 SE was pretty decent. ME blew syphilitic goats. NT 4.0 was a wreck; 4.5 made it right. 2000 had some serious flaws when it came out, but XP was actually decent. Installing vista is like being escorted into the maximum security wing of a prison wearing assless pants. Windows 7...
Well, we can hope. I might see the next Star Trek movie, too, if it's based on DS9.
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
...for sufficiently large values of '2010,' which, as used by MS, is a variable name.
Will XP be more expensive to get with a new computer than Vista? Because OEMs will now have to jump through hoops to get XP on a new machine, and Microsoft will probably be pushing Vista which means offering it cheaper.
That would be a strange day, when an OS maker is de facto asking higher prices for its old OS!
---
"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
A simple lesson. How to promote piracy or encourage switching to a rival's product by refusing to sell what people want.
In the business world, this is called suicide.
-- Will program for bandwidth
... but our buddies in Sweden with the big tracker and the pirate flag are.
No worries.
Gimme Ubuntu anyday. Wtf would I be paying for with windows?
*fart*
ReactOS will be your salvation!
I used to think wine was a useless project. Why would you want to run Windows programs when you have Linux. Now I see the wisdom of the wine developers.
Office works,You can run Everquest I and II in wine just fine. http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=358
I think the turning point for me was when I installed the Windows version of Firefox so that I could run the .ica client for citrix on a diskless LTSP client. It worked. Flawlessly the first time. No install scripts, configuration tweaking or whatever. Run the installer and it works. The diskless client boots in seconds and If I can run Firefox and .ica client to remote desktop to a citrix server and access both my Outlook and my local files; if I can run Office natively and access my Exchange server, WTH do I need Windows for? Really, what? All of the clients work the same way -- install the app on my account and I can access the app from any of 50 clients.
I also used to be a big detractor of the server-centric thin client architecture. I was wrong. Have another look. Apparently the server-centric world is not dead yet.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
*sigh* I love linux, but the "Linux is way more compatible than Microsoft" silliness can really get to someone eventually. Linux does not have better game support. Yeah, Wine is great, but it does not work as well as Windows does at running Windows programs, despite all the marketing that it has attempted to do. In fact, I couldn't get any version of iTunes to work in wine on my only-linux laptop (Dell E1505) - eventually did a virtualbox XP install for my two necessary Windows programs.
Additionally, some people like playing computer games, not console games. I hate using a console, I love playing computer games... consoles don't work for everyone.
As for devices, some devices have issues with Linux (or the other way around). I have had trouble getting my wireless card to work (still can't get it to go into monitor mode and work correctly). Even something as basic as hibernate/suspend sometimes doesn't work too well (though SuSE 10.3 does work with that, now). I actually had a horrendous time getting my ATI x1400 Mobility to work on my laptop - turns out that the graphical console bootup in SuSE 10.3 totally messes it up.
As much as I love Linux, I have to say, from my own geeky experience and my experience with getting my parents' older laptop to work with PuppyLinux (they only had 240mb or whatever the power of 2 is (not 256) of RAM), Linux is simply not as compatible as Windows, still.
*invites "troll" mods* Unfortunately, anything remotely pro-microsoft or anti-Linux (even though I am really neither) tends to get modded badly. Oh well. :) (and, obviously, I am hoping that by mentioning it, I won't get modded :D)
No, no! We'd better wait for the successor of Win7!
Easy. Everyone who insists in running Windows, doesn't want XP and neither wants to wait for 2012 when Win7 is finally out.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
A - floppy drive ...
B - floppy drive
C - first recognized hard drive
D - CD/DVD drive
E - first usable network drive letter
Z - last usable network drive letter
Yes, I know that it LOOKS like a lot. But in practice, they get eaten up REAL fast. Particularly if the person who had the job before you had no concept of "advance planning".
And once a drive letter is assigned, and used by an installed program, it can be a real bitch to get it changed. Not to mention that some apps "help" you by requiring a specific drive letter (our accounting app does this).
On my workstation, I have the following LOCAL drive letters. ... ... ...
A - USB floppy drive (should I ever need it)
B - reserved
C - First hard drive (first partition). OS & crap that refuses to install elsewhere.
D - First hard drive (third partition). Data & anything I can get off of C.
R - CD/DVD (R is for "Removable").
S - First hard drive (second partition). This is for the swap file and temporary files.
U - First USB attached hard drive / stick / whatever. (U is for "USB").
Z - Second USB attached hard drive with my music files on it.
That leaves 18 drive letters for network drives. Again, it sounds like a lot. But in practice, I end up having to juggle them a lot.
I like oysters on the half shell. They're not for everybody. I certainly understand why someone accosted with a funnel and five pounds of oysters would have issues.
BTW, you missed Windows/286. That was choice.
I'm going to get vulgar. Our shit worked in XP. Our shit doesn't work in Vista. The people who expect us to implement this dog think we're idiots because they believe more in their software vendor than they do in us. Some of us are quite aware that our deparment heads are Redmond plants for the specific purpose of adopting Vista, but even political force can't make this pig fly. Vista isn't the shit. It is shit.
Do you get the hate now, or should I explain it more?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I'm actually pretty interested in Windows 7. It looks like there's a big shift in focus in it's design, concentrating more on performance than glitz which is the opposite to vista. The 25mb customisable lightweight version looks designed to eat into Linux's increasing market share in low powered budget systems.
It's easy to forget that MS followed up Windows ME, possibly their worst ever OS with XP, their best ever OS. At least Vista doesn't BSOD unless you've major hardware/driver issues.
Come on people, it's going cheap now!
How did your post start off at a 3 with no modding?
Customers: "XP is pretty good... It gets the job done."
Microsoft: "Here...Try Vista!"
Customers: "Uh, OK."
Microsoft: "Isn't Vista great?"
Customers: "Uh, no, it isn't. In fact, it's horrible."
Microsoft: "How can it not be great?"
Customers: "Well, my drivers are incompatible, some drivers crashed altogether, its full of nagware, sucks up my ram, legit DVDs won't play because of "DRM issues", too much glitzy eye candy, too many promo tie-ins, is full of software bugs, Internet Explorer is nothing more than a fancy promotional tool and has so many security problems it makes 1990's Bosnia look like Paradise."
Microsoft: "But Windows Vista is great! We're Microsoft and Vista is a great product."
Customers: "Uh, no, it's not."
Microsoft: "Yes it is! We spent so much ime and money developing it, how can it not be great?!"
Customer: *sigh* NO, it's NOT. The interface is horrible. The security is useless. Explorer is useless.
Microsoft: How could it be horrible? Look at all the helpful icons, animation, sounds, and 3-D images.....And look at all the features Explorer has - Where do you get your media content, and mail service, and news, and searches?! Explorer has all of that stuff built in!
Customer: Nobody cares about fancy icons. I get video from Netflix, Blockbuster, or YouTube, music from iTunes, mail from GMail, News from SlashDot, the BBC, Fox, CNN, Reuters, or other outlets, and I use Google for browsing. I don't need Explorer's built-in junk. I use Opera as my browser, so I can choose the services I want without extra clutter. Plus I don't get pop-ups like Explorer lets through.
Microsoft: You're supposed to care about it! Our research says so! Vista is great!
Customer: No, it isn't!
Microsoft: *YES*, it *IS*!
Customer: NO IT ISN'T.
Microsoft: YES...IT...IS! (using one hand to do a Jedi hand-wave)
Customer: Vista is a great big pain in the ass, like a ham-fisted bastard child who spends his time knocking himself unconscious.
Microsoft: YOU SAID VISTA'S GREAT! YOU SAID VISTA'S GREAT!
Customer: No I didn't. I said Vista was a great-
*SCREEEEEEEEEE!* (black van pulls up)
Microsoft: GET HIM!
(12-man tactiacal team dogpiles the customer, gags and handcuffs him, drags him into the van and leaves, taking him to the much-rumored "Redmond Re-Education Center")
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
I made the switch to linux full time 2 years ago. It was a pain at first but linux has made leaps and bounds in that time. I am running debian etch at home and ubuntu 64 at work. Ubuntu 64 8.04 installed all codecs, java and flash with ndiswrapper automatically. I did nothing but make a selection. Wine 1.0 has ran almost everything I tried to use. Autocad 2002LT runs with some hacking. But Use virtualbox 1.6 in seamless mode and with a fast machine it almost feels like its running native. Make the switch, its worth it overall.
That's for sure.
Try Dia: http://live.gnome.org/Dia
It's what I use in place of Visio and, being cross platform, it can save on licence fees for Windows users that want to create diagrams but don't need any Visio specific functionality.
Stupid flounders!
I think the biggest mistake Microsoft made with Office 2007 is that they actually REMOVED the toolbar. In their other apps like IE7 and WMP10, they just hid the toolbar and gave you an option to re-enable it. Of course, that's the first thing I do on IE7 and WMP10 cause their UIs both suck. With Office, the UI is radically different (better, IMO) but they do not give you any transition period. There is no option to enable the toolbar and do things the old way without a third party plugin. That's a serious mistake and it's the reason why everyone and their mother bitches and moans about Office 2007. The UI is improved but it takes time to learn it, and most people just HATE that idea.
Who bothered loading W2000 with XP 3 years away? *everyone*. Who bothered loading NT4 with W2000 3 years away? *everyone*. Who bothered loading 95 with 98 3 years away? *everyone*. So, in short, Slashdot are following the rest of the media, shrieking too loudly to notice what they're shrieking about.
Or are we just talking about multi-finger gesture support?
Cos AFAIK, the "new" Apple multifinger stuff was neither particularly new nor particularly Appley. When I got my old Sony laptop years ago, with XP Pro, it came with Synaptics Touchpad pre-installed, and that supported multi-finger things. (puzzled)
Eric Baird
"... Microsoft broke the whole GUI on Windows..."
Good point.
Actually, I believe it's a void pointer since they are not ready to commit to a specific data type yet.
The Vista machine it is on is still booting.
Heh, no wonder they keep delaying it, WinFS stands for Windows Future Storage, by releasing it they would collapse it into the present thus destroying it.
So you see, it's not that the don't want to, it's just impossible since it can only exist in the future.
I have used your products since Win 3.1 but I will not be loading Vista on my next machine. I guess I will install Linux.
Thanks for the memories,
A former loyal customer
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Unless they bundle an XP virtual machine into every install of Windows 7, the dilemma of "Legacy support vs. moving forward" will never end. Even then, I can think of many ways for MS to screw this up.
Meanwhile, what will Apple be shipping by 2010? How many customers will be lost before Windows 7 becomes available?
What exactly does Windows 7 have that is worth waiting until 2010 to get? If there is no answer to the question, then the assumption is that Windows 7 will be a rebadged Vista. If there IS ans answer to the question, then Linux and Apple have plenty of time to get there first.
No, I'm New Here
Shooting themselves in the foot won't kill them. But if they put thier foot in thier mouth first?
Whee, love mixed metaphors on a slow work day.
A Chinese company called Addintools has a little utility that will put the menus back and make Office 2007 usable again. http://www.addintools.com/
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Does this mean that XP is now free to those who have a VLK? You know, for testing and such...
Freeing Reiser to go off and fight the Redmondians! Hilarious stuff.
You know, with all the frustration and comedy of Vista, this "Open Source vs. MS" conflict might become mainstream. Maybe people really WOULD appreciate the humor and entertainment of a Linus, Stallman, DVD Jon, and Reiser taking down MS, MPAA, and RIAA. Three years ago, the average person wouldn't "get it". I figure one more year of Vista and DRM makes the concept ready for a theater near you.
But if you don't like the action/adventure genre, there is always science fiction. Consider the cast of a Star Trek parody:
Captain Kirk: Linus
Dr. McCoy: Stallman
Spock: DVD Jon
Prisoner "liberated" from a Federation penal colony; a former science officer recalled to active duty so he can assist with this desperate battle: Reiser
Klingons: Microsoft
Romulans: RIAA + MPAA
Clueless politicians running the Federation: US Congress
I highly disapprove of AstroTurf. My grandmother had some of that shit. What the hell, you can't plant actual grass on your deck? Lazy.
I meant an Epson scanner, mainly. The ATI video card in my old desktop works like crap with Linux and loses all its video capture capabilities (that won't matter on my new computer, which will definitely not have an ATI card). Also, a Wacom tablet (which MIGHT work with Linux, but installing it looks complicated). I have a cheapo camera that definitely doesn't work with Linux, not that I really care. My printer works OK for basic documents but doesn't have all its features. I need all its features. My MP3 player, a Samsung, only works with Windows, despite rumours that you can fix that by grabbing firmware from another country. I couldn't get my Logitech controller to work. A bunch of mouse buttons don't work. My modem's manufacturer doesn't even exist anymore so good luck finding a driver.
I've heard Photoshop sorta works under WINE but I've never tried it -- I need CMYK. Does Illustrator? I love Inkscape, but it represents CMYK colors in RGBA, which is useless to me. I'm pretty sure Poser and MangaStudio don't - They barely work in XP though that might be a speed thing. Sketchup doesn't have a Linux version yet. The computer I have my eye on has a TV tuner installed, and I don't know if that'll work under Linux, but it's a feature I really want.
I obviously don't know if Vista will work any better with any of this stuff, since I DON'T OWN IT, but since it all works under XP I think it's at least worth a try. If not, fuck it, I'll dual-boot. I need a new computer anyway. This one shuts down if I don't underclock it in the summer.
I can't check if Linux works with the games I already own because my desktop video card is barely compatible with it, and my laptop doesn't have good enough graphics. It doesn't matter, because once I'm done with a game I'm done with it, and I only play games for a few weeks out of a year. I'm interested in next year's games, not last year's.
For the record, I adore Ubuntu on my laptop. Except that it doesn't support the pen screen, which didn't even have the decency to be Wacom. It does run some low-spec Windows games OK -- the laptop itself doesn't have great graphics capabilities. I never managed to get networking running properly, though that's my own inexperience with networks I think.
Basically my options are:
- Stick with my old, slow, slightly wonky computer that occasionally forgets it has hard drives.
- Buy a new generic and put Linux on it despite the fact that I know it doesn't work with some of my stuff, and will be hard to get working with some of my other stuff, even though it's the cool thing to do.
- Buy a nice HP running Vista, hope and pray it works alright, fiddle with it for a while, and put XP or Ubuntu or both or all three on it if it doesn't work.
The HP is faster than the generics available to me for the same price.
Also, foggy glass, man! How can you not love that?
Windows 3.x (obviously version 3)
Windows 95, 98, ME (Version 4)
Windows 2000 (Version 5)
Windows XP (Version 6)
Windows Vista (Version 7)
The New Shit (Version 8)
Or are they calling Windows XP Windows 2000 Mk II?
Are you going to trust a company that can't count? Or perhaps they realize the abortion that is Vista and are trying to forget it before it is off the selves
"...a civilian some of the time, a soldier part of the time and a patriot all of the time." -Brig. Gen. James Drain
So while I'm perfectly capable of doing geeky stuff on my computer, it has long since lost its appeal. I have more important things to do.
Exactly. I learned to program on a ZX81, wrote my first significant programs in assembly before I was a teenager, found multiple ways to hack my school network before they made that sort of thing a criminal offence, became one of the student sysadmins and wrote low-level OS hackery so when the guys a few years younger tried the same tricks they didn't work any more, built my first PC before there were web sites telling you how to do it, and was hacking configuration files before the registry was a glint in Bill's eye. I reckon I have a fair claim to being a geek at heart.
But as you get older, you find you have less time for such things.
For one thing, after you've done things like these once, there is much less appeal to doing them again. The first time, it's like a rite of passage. The second time, it no longer holds the same fascination, achieves nothing new, brings no personal development.
For another thing, these days I have a full-time job. When you're a student, you have all the time in the world to pursue personal projects. When you're working, there just isn't as much time to spend on your own leisure pursuits.
And of course, I have picked up other interests over the years that compete for that spare time. I have an increasing number of other hobbies I enjoy, and family concerns to think about.
I do still enjoy doing geeky stuff at home, even though I earn my living writing software. But the parent post is absolutely right: I want my computer to just work. I want to do the geeky stuff I enjoy, whether it's playing with AI algorithms, or writing graphics software that draws pretty pictures, or exploring the theory of programming language design by inventing my own languages, or taking part in interesting discussions on on-line forums like Slashdot, or even writing the simple game clones I somehow never wrote when I was younger, just to prove to myself that it really isn't so hard.
I don't want to waste my precious time trying to get an OS to work and finding things in a new interface when I used to know where they were anyway. These things have no value for me, and just get in the way of doing the things my computer should be helping me to do. This is why I deliberately got XP rather than Vista on my new computer a few months ago. I know XP: I can make it work, and it does what I need it to. I seriously considered both Linux and Mac as alternative platforms this time, but the bottom line is that they just didn't run the software I'm most familiar with, and again, learning alternatives would be expensive in terms of time and have little practical benefit.
If Windows 7 lets me do new things, or makes it easier to do the things I do already, then I will probably upgrade. Otherwise, I see no reason to move from XP. As they say, life is short, and I have plenty of things I want to do with my limited time in this world. I'll pick the computing platform that makes it easiest for me to do them.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
What does Vista or the planned Win 7 do that XP doesn't that 99% of the users really need/want? My personal opinion is that we've lost the original intent of 'OS' and now it has become the kitchen sink do all be all, needed or not. Outside of a business server environment, what half-knowing user leaves on all the services shipped enabled? What percent of people turn off or reduce the eye candy because they find it annoying, distracting or just a resource hog? One could say similar things about recent linux distributions, though at least the kernel itself is reconfigurable to remove most things that are unnecessary.
The guy made us use an ancient version of Red Hat to get some good troubleshooting experience. I understood the decision, but the OS froze during installation and did a lot of other things that pissed off my rather linux-phobic colleagues. Vista will certainly give you plenty of Windows troubleshooting experience.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
i dont need any new 'os'. and if they halt shipping of xp, well, i will just use my xp cd with the new pc i buy after formatting it.
i dont care about updates either, because windows updates generally break a many stuff than they fix. remember how web developers had their pcs screwed with the last service pack ? well i wasnt one of them because i dont do windows updates.
Read radical news here
"Pirate" XP. How can you "steal" something that is not commercially available? In Canada, people who "steal" US satellite TV signals are not prosecuted, because the US satellite TV do not have canadian licenses nor are allowed to sell licenses in Canada. So Microsoft would be hard-pressed in explaining why it wants someone who "pirated" XP prosecuted when you cannot have it in any store...
It is highly likely that the OEMs will still have to pay for a copy of Windows Vista on every PC shipped with Windows XP and so the OEMs must pay an added price for the copy of XP a customer might request. That would be paying twice and would add to the total system cost. Not to mention still allow Microsoft to use bloated claims of number of copies of Windows Vista sold.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Vista works well. Really?
/. hates Vista. It's not because we hate MSFT (we do) but it's because we see a product that lacks certain "features" that have been standard since forever. Vista truly is a step backwards, not forwards. How many issues have to be documented before you call a spade a spade?
All of the I/O functions work properly? Copying files, renaming folders, etc. All that works perfectly?
If you say yes, you lie. We already know of documented issues with file operations. It is pretty much proven that the I/O performance of Vista is substandard compared with even XP, much less Linux or some *nix flavor. We may not know why that is the case but we can definitely see it in the benchmarks. No doubt about that.
I may be out of line here but any OS that doesn't work with files/folders "perfectly" is a lemon in my mind. That might have been acceptable back in '88 but not in 2008. It's like asking whether your car comes with tires included. Of course it does! ALL cars come with the tires on the car. If one doesn't, it should stand out like a sore thumb. That is called a minimum requirement. And Vista doesn't meet the minimum requirement for the file system.
Pretending the issue isn't there doesn't make it go away. I challenge you to find a single (non-MSFT) study that shows file system performance on Vista meets what IT nerds expect in 2008. I think, if you do the research, you will find lots of evidence to the contrary.
THIS is why
So we should be expecting it around 2015, reaching stability with SP3 in 2020?
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
Its Time to Stock up on XP Discs. Get several and don't open them until you need them. Or find a student version with a unlimited use code.
Please read mu blog for my views on Technology and Tech; http://kennethlawson.blogspot.com/
I like this part of his announcement.
"As a result, our approach with Windows 7 is to build off the same core architecture as Windows Vista so the investments you and our partners have made in Windows Vista will continue to pay off with Windows 7. Our goal is to ensure the migration process from Windows Vista to Windows 7 is straightforward."
In other words they are going to finish Vista.
I was hoping that they would keep XP alive until the new Windows came out, but this is a double shotgun blast in the gut.
Okay, so you can still get XP (Professional, please) on systems through OEMs and manufacturers for a while, but Microsoft effectively is saying "Use XP and you are on your own." One could argue that with Vista, the same is true (except you substitute Vista for XP in the statement)...
Second shotgun blast to the gut: they're going to build it on Vista...There's an old IT industry saying: you can't polish a T*RD! (swap U for the *)...
I've been contemplating switching the LINUX and MAC OS/X (yep, MAC hardware too) and so I guess my next system will be one of those.
I'm tired of having to tweak, reinstall, fix, patch, and generally spend more than 2% of my time on operating system/hardware compatibility issues. A computer is supposed to help you do things, not consume your time caring for it. It should be a simple thing: apply electricity, provide network access, and update periodically. Software should be even simpler--update periodically.
I had enough fun with XP SP3 because I used an Athlon processor--I had to remove/rename a *.sys file because I was using a non-INTEL processor? GIMEE A BREAK!!!
I'm expecting corporations will start migrating away from Windows to other operating systems, or a web browser and SAAS applications...so I'll start early and not spend any more money or time with Microsoft.
Supreme Granter of Doctor of Obviology Letters ("A FIRM Command of the Obvious")
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have a Dell Latitude D830 on which I run Vista Business and Ubuntu 7.04 seamlessly.
Vista hasn't given me any major issues... So I had to wait a month for a better version of Audacity that worked better with Vista, big deal? It's free software, I can't complain.
Ubuntu, once I got it to install, works great as well. I wanted to take a trip over to the open source "heaven" to see how great it really is. I like the way Ubuntu looks and functions, yet still, my wireless card doesn't work and my audio card doesn't work. (Though, I haven't spent much time seeking a fix).
All in all, I'd have to say Vista is running better than Ubuntu, not by much, and not to a degree that I favor one over the other. They both fit their relative niches well and I enjoy using both, Vista for games and general use, Ubuntu for web development.
dont forget anyone who actually purchases a computer in the interim.
most windows lisc are sold through OEM channels and they will get what the OEM has to offer.
Period.
Any idea what they are doing to reduce the memory profile?
Eric Baird
So Vista, as a product, probably isn't going to be fixed. The "fix" is going to be to buy the next product.
This sounds rather like the situation with the infamously bad "Windows ME". ME never got fixed. The "fix" was to throw it away and upgrade to XP.
If the situation with Vista compares to that with ME, then the correct thing to do is to say, "Oh well, never mind", and skip past this particular product. That's certainly what a lot of people wished they'd done with ME.
Eric Baird
Another part of me is worried that if ReactOS is too good, and if their own Win7 development is going badly, Microsoft might pull some last-minute legal stunt to shut ReactOS down and take it over, or pay the ReactOS developer group an obscene amount of money to buy it outright.
If I was an Evil Corporate Executiveâ at Microsoft, that'd be one of my possible emergency plans, in the eventuality of another looming disaster like the Vista launch.
Eric Baird
XP was a step up in quality from previous versions of Windows, but I can only conclude that Vista haters are irrational at this point. I've been using Vista x64 now for the better part of a year without any issues, excellent compatibility, and great performance. I also use OSX, Solaris, and several distros of Linux and I find Vista the best OS overall for development, media, and gaming. What exactly are people looking for in an OS that Vista doesn't offer? And, why be emotionally vested in an OS? Personally, I think it would be cool if companies continued to support older products, but they don't and that's just the way it is. Get over it, move forward, leave the nineties behind.
"Funny Apple is setting Snow Leopard to be nothing more than a new software stack, removing old features, and a general code clean up."
Yeah, but Apple is a special case. Face it, because of the Reality Distortion Field, Steve Jobs could take a dump in a box, tell Apple users that it's Insanely Great!, and millions would line up to order it. And I say that typing from an eMac. Jobs has the ability to get his customers to do ludicrous, expensive things. So Apple may not be the fairest example of "sell quality, and it'll sell". Apple could almost sell anything and it would sell.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
It seems to me that sony made the right move with the PS3, sure the high cost of including a blue-ray drive hurt initial sales but it also won them the HD format war. So now you get a player for the victorious HD movie format and a HD game console all rolled into one.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
However it's still a nightmare to program games for.
We have an expert Windows sysadmin, one of the best and most knowledgeable I've worked with, and Vista is a turd despite his efforts. SharePoint is more limited with IE7 and Vista than IE6 and XP. MS Office Project Web is constantly screwing up on my Vista machine and works fine on my colleagues'.
Shutdown and startup are unnecessarily lengthy. When I try to connect to certain wireless networks, Vista won't let me unless they are unsecured.
Vista really is a giant hosebag full of broken glass and rusty nails...
Ask Me About... The 80's!
At home:
With this in mind, and some of the changes already predicted in Win7, we will be a completely Ubuntu/WINE home by the end of 2009. Already 25% there.
At Work:
I had no intentions of migrating us (15 person office) to Vista. There is just too much that goes along with it. This info will likely lead me to move a few server roles off to SaaS solutions. We are beginning to pilot open source tools and OS'. I wouldn't be surprised if this moves us closer to a Linux/Open Source office in the near term as well.